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Author Topic: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18  (Read 275716 times)

cheebs09

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2350 on: February 06, 2018, 09:45:32 PM »
Lol, Colts.

McDaniels doesn't get another chance after this, right?

This would be a pretty epic troll job if true.

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/961045214399025152

MU82

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2351 on: February 06, 2018, 09:45:35 PM »
My wife and I have debated this often the last six months. We have been Democrats our entire lives, but she recently registered as an independent.  She is what I would call a Blue Dog Democrat.  We own guns, support gun rights, and she has strong feelings on the border.  She's not one to build the wall, but she put an important question to me after this latest news.

If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver, would you be angry?       My answer was yes.

If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver who was here illegally and deported two previous times, would you feel the same?

My answer was no.  I would feel furious.  That doesn't make her or I racist. It has nothing to do with Dreamers, whom we largely support.  It comes down to incremental loss of life.  This man would not have been killed by this man if our border security and policies were where they need to be.  The argument that others are killed by drunk driving American citizens makes no difference because they are legally allowed to be in this country.  It doesn't make those deaths any less tragic, but losing someone at the hands of someone that isn't allowed to be here and has already been deported multiple times is deeply troubling.

Thank you for hearing my opinion.

Would you be equally furious if a rich, white American man or woman with multiple drunk driving arrests - one who kept getting second and third and fourth chances because money tends to buy those extra chances - killed your child?

If yes, you might not be a racist. (But you might be.)

If no, you are definitely a racist.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

GooooMarquette

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2352 on: February 06, 2018, 10:09:06 PM »
My wife and I have debated this often the last six months. We have been Democrats our entire lives, but she recently registered as an independent.  She is what I would call a Blue Dog Democrat.  We own guns, support gun rights, and she has strong feelings on the border.  She's not one to build the wall, but she put an important question to me after this latest news.

If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver, would you be angry?       My answer was yes.

If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver who was here illegally and deported two previous times, would you feel the same?

My answer was no.  I would feel furious.  That doesn't make her or I racist. It has nothing to do with Dreamers, whom we largely support.  It comes down to incremental loss of life.  This man would not have been killed by this man if our border security and policies were where they need to be.  The argument that others are killed by drunk driving American citizens makes no difference because they are legally allowed to be in this country.  It doesn't make those deaths any less tragic, but losing someone at the hands of someone that isn't allowed to be here and has already been deported multiple times is deeply troubling.

Thank you for hearing my opinion.

Interesting.

If my child was killed by a drunk driver, I think I would be so distraught at the loss that I couldn’t be “less upset” simply because the driver was here legally. My grief would be complete regardless of the driver’s status.

Hards Alumni

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2353 on: February 06, 2018, 10:16:56 PM »
Interesting.

If my child was killed by a drunk driver, I think I would be so distraught at the loss that I couldn’t be “less upset” simply because the driver was here legally. My grief would be complete regardless of the driver’s status.

That's because you aren't racist.

MU82

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2354 on: February 06, 2018, 10:18:04 PM »
Interesting.

If my child was killed by a drunk driver, I think I would be so distraught at the loss that I couldn’t be “less upset” simply because the driver was here legally. My grief would be complete regardless of the driver’s status.

Unfortunately, GM, you start out with the disadvantage of not being a racist.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

tower912

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2355 on: February 07, 2018, 05:32:19 AM »
My child would be dead.  My grief wouldn't give a flying fire truck about the ethnicity of the perpetrator.   Did the dad who lunged at Nassar care about his melatonin or country of origin or did he want 5 minutes alone with a monster?   It was a white kid going 90 and talking on a cellphone who crushed a fire chief on the scene of another accident on I-94 near Kalamazoo.   Is his guilt or culpability different?   Is the family's loss different because the driver was born here?

If I am reading your post correctly, if your child had been killed at the country music concert in Las Vegas, your grief would have been less because they had been killed by a middle aged white guy exercising his second amendment rights.    Time for some self examination.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 06:28:33 AM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

GGGG

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2356 on: February 07, 2018, 06:12:06 AM »
I tell you one thing.  I would not allow my dead child to be used as a political prop by those support xenophobic policies.

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2357 on: February 07, 2018, 07:31:53 AM »
My wife and I have debated this often the last six months. We have been Democrats our entire lives, but she recently registered as an independent.  She is what I would call a Blue Dog Democrat.  We own guns, support gun rights, and she has strong feelings on the border.  She's not one to build the wall, but she put an important question to me after this latest news.

If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver, would you be angry?       My answer was yes.

If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver who was here illegally and deported two previous times, would you feel the same?

My answer was no.  I would feel furious.  That doesn't make her or I racist. It has nothing to do with Dreamers, whom we largely support.  It comes down to incremental loss of life.  This man would not have been killed by this man if our border security and policies were where they need to be.  The argument that others are killed by drunk driving American citizens makes no difference because they are legally allowed to be in this country.  It doesn't make those deaths any less tragic, but losing someone at the hands of someone that isn't allowed to be here and has already been deported multiple times is deeply troubling.

Thank you for hearing my opinion.
With your move to Idaho you won't have to worry about those darn brown skinned people.
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

tower912

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Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

tower912

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2359 on: February 07, 2018, 08:42:27 AM »
I tell you one thing.  I would not allow my dead child to be used as a political prop by those support xenophobic policies.

Did Edwin Jackson kneel during the national anthem?     I honestly don't know and cannot find evidence that he did.    But if he did, would that change the narrative?     And, as this is being used as a political tool, has anyone mentioned the Uber driver who also died?   Drunk driving is a scourge.    These deaths are tragic.   But IMO, it is more about the scourge of drunk driving than it is about immigration.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

MUBurrow

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2360 on: February 07, 2018, 09:56:53 AM »
If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver who was here illegally and deported two previous times, would you feel the same?

My answer was no. 

I want to stay away from the hot taek elements of the OP and the replies, but I do want to jump on my soapbox for a moment (feel free to tl;dr from here on).

Putting ourselves in other's shoes is generally a good thing. It gives us empathy, and highlights the "so but for the grace of God go I" truths that are easy to ignore every day.  But when we're talking about tragedy, there's a danger of forcing your mind and heart into the worst version of yourself, and then advocating policy on the basis of that version.

If Edwin Jackson were your child, you would feel and think things you previously thought monstrous and unimaginable.  I'm willing to bet that even the parents in the link tower posted - both Mennonite ministers - had emotional reactions and thoughts that, in the opinion of their church, would condemn them to damnation if acted upon.  That's human, and expected, and okay.

But that's also not a place from which to advocate for or against policies that affect millions of people.  You see a similar argument with the death penalty.  "Its easy to be against the death penalty, but what if your child were raped or murdered??"  You don't have a moral imperative to advocate for policy based on this hypothetical, emotionally-destroyed version of yourself.  In fact, its all of our responsibility to use the more calm, rational, versions of ourselves to come up with policy that we know is right and just, and that holds up against our universal inclinations to devolve into worse versions of ourselves in the face of tragedy.

Spotcheck Billy

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2361 on: February 07, 2018, 09:59:50 AM »
Had Goddell over today for some quality time. He was very nice in person.

Who is this Goddell you mentioned?

MU82

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2362 on: February 07, 2018, 10:43:39 AM »
I want to stay away from the hot taek elements of the OP and the replies, but I do want to jump on my soapbox for a moment (feel free to tl;dr from here on).

Putting ourselves in other's shoes is generally a good thing. It gives us empathy, and highlights the "so but for the grace of God go I" truths that are easy to ignore every day.  But when we're talking about tragedy, there's a danger of forcing your mind and heart into the worst version of yourself, and then advocating policy on the basis of that version.

If Edwin Jackson were your child, you would feel and think things you previously thought monstrous and unimaginable.  I'm willing to bet that even the parents in the link tower posted - both Mennonite ministers - had emotional reactions and thoughts that, in the opinion of their church, would condemn them to damnation if acted upon.  That's human, and expected, and okay.

But that's also not a place from which to advocate for or against policies that affect millions of people.  You see a similar argument with the death penalty.  "Its easy to be against the death penalty, but what if your child were raped or murdered??"  You don't have a moral imperative to advocate for policy based on this hypothetical, emotionally-destroyed version of yourself.  In fact, its all of our responsibility to use the more calm, rational, versions of ourselves to come up with policy that we know is right and just, and that holds up against our universal inclinations to devolve into worse versions of ourselves in the face of tragedy.

This is reasonable. We all think we know how we will react to a situation ... until it happens to us.

This is borne out time and again from folks who rail against the evils of homosexuality - until their child comes out of the closet. Then they become beacons of tolerance, right Dick Cheney?

So yes, I allow that if my child were killed, I might react in ways I can't conceive of now.

But I do like to think I would react the way the heroic families of the 9 churchgoers who were killed by white supremacist Dylann Roof did.

Here's hoping none of us on this board ever have to find out how we would react.

Meanwhile ... how 'bout that NFL?
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

jesmu84

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2363 on: February 07, 2018, 10:58:57 AM »
This is reasonable. We all think we know how we will react to a situation ... until it happens to us.

This is borne out time and again from folks who rail against the evils of homosexuality - until their child comes out of the closet. Then they become beacons of tolerance, right Dick Cheney?

So yes, I allow that if my child were killed, I might react in ways I can't conceive of now.

But I do like to think I would react the way the heroic families of the 9 churchgoers who were killed by white supremacist Dylann Roof did.

Here's hoping none of us on this board ever have to find out how we would react.

Meanwhile ... how 'bout that NFL?

I read some interesting analysis of the McDaniels situation.

Who do people "blame"?

Some said it was McDaniels being a d-bag (he had already lined up a coaching staff). Some say it was the Patriots for (allegedly intentionally) screwing over the Colts. Some say it was the Colts for not being enticing enough for McD (or for not disclosing all the info on Luck's health).

Thoughts?

MUBurrow

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2364 on: February 07, 2018, 11:04:59 AM »
I read some interesting analysis of the McDaniels situation.

Who do people "blame"?

Some said it was McDaniels being a d-bag (he had already lined up a coaching staff). Some say it was the Patriots for (allegedly intentionally) screwing over the Colts. Some say it was the Colts for not being enticing enough for McD (or for not disclosing all the info on Luck's health).

Thoughts?

I'm inclined to think its mostly McD backing out after the Pats sweetened the pot/had a discussion about succeeding Belichick.  I'm not sure screwing over the Colts was a motivating factor for Kraft, but I'm sure he got a chuckle out of it and didn't feel bad about about not having the conversation before the SB. Between Luck's status and Irsay, the Colts job is as unappealing as any in the league right now.

Pakuni

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2365 on: February 07, 2018, 11:07:19 AM »
I read some interesting analysis of the McDaniels situation.

Who do people "blame"?

Some said it was McDaniels being a d-bag (he had already lined up a coaching staff). Some say it was the Patriots for (allegedly intentionally) screwing over the Colts. Some say it was the Colts for not being enticing enough for McD (or for not disclosing all the info on Luck's health).

Thoughts?

All of the above.
McDaniels showed he's still the petulant douche he was in Denver.
The Colts showed they're still the trash heap of an organization that landed a golden ticket (aka Andrew Luck) and pissed it away.
And the Pats showed that they're more than happy not to let bygones be bygones.

MU82

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2366 on: February 07, 2018, 01:26:35 PM »
I read some interesting analysis of the McDaniels situation.

Who do people "blame"?

Some said it was McDaniels being a d-bag (he had already lined up a coaching staff). Some say it was the Patriots for (allegedly intentionally) screwing over the Colts. Some say it was the Colts for not being enticing enough for McD (or for not disclosing all the info on Luck's health).

Thoughts?

My thought is that all is fair in love, war and the NFL.

Unless McDaniels signed a contract that bound him to Indy, he was free to back out once the Patriots said "no, we want you for this job when Hoodie leaves sooner than later."

Some folks won't like the way it went down, but that's life.

Of course, the ultimate "karma's a beyotch" could nail McDaniels when he gets the Pats job and Brady either quits or gets hurt. If Luck has a full recovery eventually (a big if), that could be the better job.

Everything is cyclical. Except for brief stretches under Parcells and Raymond Berry, the Patriots pretty much sucked for 4 decades before Belichick/Brady came along. They'll be gone soon enough. Suckage won't necessarily follow - but it probably will.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

tower912

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2367 on: February 07, 2018, 01:44:23 PM »
If New England and Belichick let him know that the hoodie was leaving soon and that Josh was the heir apparent, it makes sense. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

lawdog77

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2368 on: February 07, 2018, 01:58:58 PM »
Didn't the hoodie do something similar to the Jets?

GGGG

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2369 on: February 07, 2018, 02:33:52 PM »
Didn't the hoodie do something similar to the Jets?


Yep.  He was under contract as defensive coordinator at the time.  (I believe as part of his contract, he was to be named the head coach had Parcells stepped down.)  The Pats had to give the Jets a first round pick as compensation.  They eventually used that pick to trade up to draft Shaun Ellis, who was a solid player for many years.

Jockey

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2370 on: February 07, 2018, 04:47:57 PM »
If New England and Belichick let him know that the hoodie was leaving soon and that Josh was the heir apparent, it makes sense.

For his sake, they better have. No other team in the NFL will ever hire the d'bag again.

I would not be surprised if this was all planned ahead by NE. Josh was told he would get the job when the Head Cheater retires and it was one more chance to stick it to the Colts for Deflategate.

Pakuni

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2371 on: February 07, 2018, 04:57:22 PM »
For his sake, they better have. No other team in the NFL will ever hire the d'bag again.

Similar things were said about Belichick when he spurned the Jets, Dana Altman when he spurned Arkansas and Billy Donovan when he spurned Orlando.
Just like with those guys, a team will hire McDaniels if they believe he'll bring them wins. This won't matter a bit.


MU82

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2372 on: February 07, 2018, 09:00:45 PM »
Similar things were said about Belichick when he spurned the Jets, Dana Altman when he spurned Arkansas and Billy Donovan when he spurned Orlando.
Just like with those guys, a team will hire McDaniels if they believe he'll bring them wins. This won't matter a bit.

This.

Recruits were gonna shun Wojo after his treatment of Wally, too, remember?
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

lawdog77

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2373 on: February 08, 2018, 06:58:21 AM »
A real boss move by Kraft would be to hire someone  other than McDaniels when Bellicheck retires, and tell McD "this is what happens when you even think about crossing enemy lines".

JWags85

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #2374 on: February 08, 2018, 11:02:30 AM »
A real boss move by Kraft would be to hire someone  other than McDaniels when Bellicheck retires, and tell McD "this is what happens when you even think about crossing enemy lines".

Yea, if McDaniels didn't already leave and fail at a HC job and Bobby welcomed him back.  Lets stop the adulation of Kraft as some Machiavellian gangster.  He offered McDaniels to keep continuity with the organization and with a side benefit of screwing the Colts who hates.