MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: GGGG on August 10, 2017, 07:44:54 PM
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Mike Glennon throws a pick 6 on his first possession. Cue the Trubisky era?
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It was a fitting start. Forget all the talk, Mitch will be starting sooner rather than later
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It was a fitting start. Forget all the talk, Mitch will be starting sooner rather than later
9-9 out of the box so far. Franchise Savior!
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9-9 out of the box so far. Franchise Savior!
I'm sure Bears fans will be level-headed in their assessment.
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I'm sure Bears fans will be level-headed in their assessment.
Super Bowl bound! Glennon was awful though.
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Much better than him not playing well.
2nd round too early to take him in fantasy? ;)
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Obviously he's going to need a lot of time but I really liked his mobility and how often the play calling incorporated it.
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Dammit sultan. I got lazy. I think I had made this thread the last 2, maybe 3, years
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I was more interested tonight in what Leonard Floyd did. If Trubisky had scored on that final possession, Bears Twitter and sports radio would have lost their collective minds.
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This was too perfect. Mitch comes in, tears up a backup defense, gets every meatball Chicago fan riled up and excited, setting up for massive expectations only for him to go 11 for 30 in the opener or whenever his first start is.
Oh, and despite all his good play, the defense still gives up a 40 yard rushing TD on 3rd and 22 outside of FG range. Bears gonna Bear.
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OK, Trubisky showed some promise.
But before Bear fans start saving for their Super Bowl tickets, keep in mind he was playing against personnel on the Bronco defense not likely to be part of Bronco defense four weeks from now. Also, the defensive schemes that Trubisky saw were simplistic and not what a quarterback is likely to see on game day in early September.
I guess when your team is coming off a 3-13 season, last night was encouraging. But sadly, Glennon is the "answer" for the Bears this year. The Bears probably would win more with Mark Sanchez at quarterback than they would with either Glennon or Trubisky.
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But before Bear fans start saving for their Super Bowl tickets, keep in mind he was playing against personnel on the Bronco defense not likely to be part of Bronco defense four weeks from now. Also, the defensive schemes that Trubisky saw were simplistic and not what a quarterback is likely to see on game day in early September.
I guess when your team is coming off a 3-13 season, last night was encouraging. But sadly, Glennon is the "answer" for the Bears this year. The Bears probably would win more with Mark Sanchez at quarterback than they would with either Glennon or Trubisky.
Ever Bears fan that posts here knows this. But, thanks for the tip.
And, yes, the Bears will be bad this season. But, in no way would they win more with Mark Sanchez.
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OK, Trubisky showed some promise.
But before Bear fans start saving for their Super Bowl tickets, keep in mind he was playing against personnel on the Bronco defense not likely to be part of Bronco defense four weeks from now. Also, the defensive schemes that Trubisky saw were simplistic and not what a quarterback is likely to see on game day in early September.
I guess when your team is coming off a 3-13 season, last night was encouraging. But sadly, Glennon is the "answer" for the Bears this year. The Bears probably would win more with Mark Sanchez at quarterback than they would with either Glennon or Trubisky.
Often, but not always, the best way to ruin a young QB is to throw him out there and let him get killed. The Bears have real money committed to Glennon. He's not the future but he might very well be the present.
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I was more interested tonight in what Leonard Floyd did.
Floyd's development is a key piece in this rebuild. He's the one guy on defense that has the chance to a real play-maker. Someone that O-coordinators have to scheme for.
I wish the Bears had another young athlete on the outside to develop with him. I still think they have hope that Pernell McPhee can be an impact player, but I think that ship has sailed.
Also, the DL looks to have much better depth.
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Often, but not always, the best way to ruin a young QB is to throw him out there and let him get killed. The Bears have real money committed to Glennon. He's not the future but he might very well be the present.
Is it really that "often" though? I think that's one of the most overplayed myths out there. People always cite Rodgers as why QBs should sit a few years and "learn the ropes." Aaron Rodgers is far more "exception" than he is "rule." Aaron Rodgers wasn't sitting simply to "learn the ropes." He was sitting because he had a top 5 all time quarterback playing at a high level in front of him.
By far the most important thing for the development of an athlete (in any sport) is game-like reps. Quarterbacks in the NFL (quite literally) can't get touched in practices. They wear a different colored jersey. That's not overly "game like." Sure they can improve their footwork and their accuracy and their arm strength. But at the end of the day you need to get on the field and get game experience.
How many of today's successful QBs sat their entire rookie year vs. those who were starters before the end of their rookie season?
Brady sat his rookie year but he was also a 6th round draft choice who was far from guaranteed a roster spot to begin with and was behind a Pro Bowl quarterback. Rodgers was behind a Hall of Fame quarterback. Rivers was sitting behind a Hall of Fame quarterback. Carson Palmer is a solid example of someone who sat a year before getting the starting nod. Other than that? Pretty much all of the successful starting quarterbacks in the league right now were starting before the end of their rookie year. Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Ben Rothlisberger, Derek Carr, Jameis Winston, Matthew Stafford, Marcus Mariota, Dak Prescott, Cam Newton, Eli Manning, Ryan Tannehill, Carson Wenz, Joe Flacco, etc. They were all starters within their rookie year. And I doubt Rodgers or Brady would be much worse today had they started by the end of year one, they just happened to have really dang good quarterbacks already on the roster.
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Good breakdown wades.
Glennon's contract is basically a one-year deal. Yeah a lot is guaranteed in that one year, but if Trubisky is the future, he will be starting by the end of the year and Glennon will be gone by the off-season. (And I think that is exactly what is going to happen.)
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Is it really that "often" though? I think that's one of the most overplayed myths out there. People always cite Rodgers as why QBs should sit a few years and "learn the ropes." Aaron Rodgers is far more "exception" than he is "rule." Aaron Rodgers wasn't sitting simply to "learn the ropes." He was sitting because he had a top 5 all time quarterback playing at a high level in front of him.
By far the most important thing for the development of an athlete (in any sport) is game-like reps. Quarterbacks in the NFL (quite literally) can't get touched in practices. They wear a different colored jersey. That's not overly "game like." Sure they can improve their footwork and their accuracy and their arm strength. But at the end of the day you need to get on the field and get game experience.
How many of today's successful QBs sat their entire rookie year vs. those who were starters before the end of their rookie season?
Brady sat his rookie year but he was also a 6th round draft choice who was far from guaranteed a roster spot to begin with and was behind a Pro Bowl quarterback. Rodgers was behind a Hall of Fame quarterback. Rivers was sitting behind a Hall of Fame quarterback. Carson Palmer is a solid example of someone who sat a year before getting the starting nod. Other than that? Pretty much all of the successful starting quarterbacks in the league right now were starting before the end of their rookie year. Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Ben Rothlisberger, Derek Carr, Jameis Winston, Matthew Stafford, Marcus Mariota, Dak Prescott, Cam Newton, Eli Manning, Ryan Tannehill, Carson Wenz, Joe Flacco, etc. They were all starters within their rookie year. And I doubt Rodgers or Brady would be much worse today had they started by the end of year one, they just happened to have really dang good quarterbacks already on the roster.
I would personally say this depends entirely on the offensive line. Getting your #2 overall draft pick crushed typically isn't in his interest. I don't follow the Bears close enough to judge that.
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OK, Trubisky showed some promise.
But before Bear fans start saving for their Super Bowl tickets, keep in mind he was playing against personnel on the Bronco defense not likely to be part of Bronco defense four weeks from now. Also, the defensive schemes that Trubisky saw were simplistic and not what a quarterback is likely to see on game day in early September.
I guess when your team is coming off a 3-13 season, last night was encouraging. But sadly, Glennon is the "answer" for the Bears this year. The Bears probably would win more with Mark Sanchez at quarterback than they would with either Glennon or Trubisky.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/dEdmW17JnZhiU/giphy.gif)
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I would personally say this depends entirely on the offensive line. Getting your #2 overall draft pick crushed typically isn't in his interest. I don't follow the Bears close enough to judge that.
The Bears line should be solid, if healthy. Not great but not a line where you need to worry about your QB getting hit consistently.
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elliot gone-6 games without pay. interested to see what vegas did with cowboys odds
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20302469/ezekiel-elliott-dallas-cowboys-suspended-six-games
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elliot gone-6 games without pay. interested to see what vegas did with cowboys odds
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20302469/ezekiel-elliott-dallas-cowboys-suspended-six-games
some of those close to him say they were getting a little nervous of his off field behavior. fortunately the girl wasn't injured too bad (as far as i know), but hopefully this will save elliot from repeating this behavior as well as any other bad decisions. it sure is going to be expensive~$240k per game?
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some of those close to him say they were getting a little nervous of his off field behavior. fortunately the girl wasn't injured too bad (as far as i know), but hopefully this will save elliot from repeating this behavior as well as any other bad decisions. it sure is going to be expensive~$240k per game?
Fortunately?
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elliot gone-6 games without pay. interested to see what vegas did with cowboys odds
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20302469/ezekiel-elliott-dallas-cowboys-suspended-six-games
People gonna be as outraged over this compared to a guy protesting a real problem in the US by kneeling during the anthem?
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Is it really that "often" though? I think that's one of the most overplayed myths out there. People always cite Rodgers as why QBs should sit a few years and "learn the ropes." Aaron Rodgers is far more "exception" than he is "rule." Aaron Rodgers wasn't sitting simply to "learn the ropes." He was sitting because he had a top 5 all time quarterback playing at a high level in front of him.
By far the most important thing for the development of an athlete (in any sport) is game-like reps. Quarterbacks in the NFL (quite literally) can't get touched in practices. They wear a different colored jersey. That's not overly "game like." Sure they can improve their footwork and their accuracy and their arm strength. But at the end of the day you need to get on the field and get game experience.
How many of today's successful QBs sat their entire rookie year vs. those who were starters before the end of their rookie season?
Brady sat his rookie year but he was also a 6th round draft choice who was far from guaranteed a roster spot to begin with and was behind a Pro Bowl quarterback. Rodgers was behind a Hall of Fame quarterback. Rivers was sitting behind a Hall of Fame quarterback. Carson Palmer is a solid example of someone who sat a year before getting the starting nod. Other than that? Pretty much all of the successful starting quarterbacks in the league right now were starting before the end of their rookie year. Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Ben Rothlisberger, Derek Carr, Jameis Winston, Matthew Stafford, Marcus Mariota, Dak Prescott, Cam Newton, Eli Manning, Ryan Tannehill, Carson Wenz, Joe Flacco, etc. They were all starters within their rookie year. And I doubt Rodgers or Brady would be much worse today had they started by the end of year one, they just happened to have really dang good quarterbacks already on the roster.
You're right, wades, things have changed in this situation. Most top rookie QBs start right away. Sink or swim.
Cam was mediocre during the exhibition season when he came in as a rookie. Once the regular season arrived, he passed for 400 yards in both the opener and the second game.
Interestingly, those are STILL his two high-yardage games even though he has become a much better all-around QB.
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Fortunately?
does everything have to be picked apart? YES!! FORTUNATELY!! i can't imagine if i said she must not have been beaten bad enough because she was still able to talk. come on man! to the best of my knowledge, she is ok, physically. mentally, i'm sure it was a horrendous experience. possibly and once again UNfortunately, elliot may have acted upon her more than once. is dear God i hope i was clear here and the door wasn't open for a fill in the blank "beat down"
if i over reacted here, i apologize, but...
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People gonna be as outraged over this compared to a guy protesting a real problem in the US by kneeling during the anthem?
i'm gonna venture to guess-yes and probably more so. this is a pretty universal no-no
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Columbus police didn't charge Elliott with any crime. Clearly the NFL is out of control and using too low of a standard of evidence. We should all be outraged by this suspension. Obvious false accusation.
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People gonna be as outraged over this compared to a guy protesting a real problem in the US by kneeling during the anthem?
I'm going to stand through his entire suspension. Good thing I have strong legs.
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i'm gonna venture to guess-yes and probably more so. this is a pretty universal no-no
Doubtful. Jerrah is apparently outraged over the suspension.
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some of those close to him say they were getting a little nervous of his off field behavior.
A friend of mine went on the OSU alumni cruise and apparently he was acting like a douche on that as well, in a setting where it was nothing but people who deify him.
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i'm gonna venture to guess-yes and probably more so. this is a pretty universal no-no
Really? So we'll get a worse media storm? The same people making a big deal about it and refusing to watch the NFL/cowboys? And, actually, will take it further than that since it's worse?
The correct answer is, of course, "no." The majority of people, and especially those who made a big deal out of kapernick, will not give this more than a minute of thought. And it definitely will not effect their viewing habits or interest in football or the cowboys.
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http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20327882/oakland-raiders-marshawn-lynch-remains-seated-national-anthem
Get out your national anthem torches - there appears to have been a sale recently on tiki torches if you don't feel like making your own
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http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20327882/oakland-raiders-marshawn-lynch-remains-seated-national-anthem
Get out your national anthem torches - there appears to have been a sale recently on tiki torches if you don't feel like making your own
WHY CAN'T HE JUST BE A GOOD AMERICAN LIKE EZEKIEL ELLIOTT!!!
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I can't believe the owner of "America's team" would hire
a player players who beat up and threaten women. This is a highly respected Hall of Famer.
Jones in the HOF, but TO is not because he was a bad guy?
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People gonna be as outraged over this compared to a guy protesting a real problem in the US by kneeling during the anthem?
so you don't think wife/girlfriend/significant other beating is a problem? so if your dad beat your mom, that's not a real problem?
ask ray rice how that's worked out for him. ask josh brown
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so you don't think wife/girlfriend/significant other beating is a problem? so if your dad beat your mom, that's not a real problem?
ask ray rice how that's worked out for him. ask josh brown
Reading comprehension is your friend. I never said abuse wasn't a problem. I was indicating that Kapernick's specific protest topic is a real problem.
Ray Rice? Who was kept around until a video emerged?
Josh Brown? Who was kept around long after evidence came to light?
What about the other list of examples who were never punished?
And, you missed the point again. I wasn't talking about the NFL punishing these guys. I was talking about the public and media.
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People gonna be as outraged over this compared to a guy protesting a real problem in the US by kneeling during the anthem?
one more time-this was your quote-"people"? if you're going to criticize someone for "reading comprehension", it's best you make yourself a little more clear. how about a little heads up on who you're referring to as "people". welcome to my world. this is how i get scrutinized
kaepernick's protest really isn't a problem, it's HIS problem. he's got to deal with the consequences. whether or not they are right, wrong, fair or unfair. life ain't fair eyn'a so?
the rest of your comments re: ray rice, josh brown and the long list of others who were never really punished (as far as we know), i cannot disagree with you
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Folks, I have a place on Marquette Avenue (serious) and would let you stay in it Super Bowl Week for a nice price (thousands). Holla.
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Watts the price four kin, hey?
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Watts the price four kin, hey?
Everythang u wan. everythang? everythang.
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Folks, I have a place on Marquette Avenue (serious) and would let you stay in it Super Bowl Week for a nice price (thousands). Holla.
Sweet, I'd pay that price to see you host me, a Packers fan, as the Packers win a Super Bowl in your trophyless new stadium.
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I heard today that there is not a single player remaining on the Bears roster that was drafted by them prior to 2013. Is that true?
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I heard today that there is not a single player remaining on the Bears roster that was drafted by them prior to 2013. Is that true?
Is this a trap? Because I know you're internet savvy enough to look this up yourself.
A quick gander at the list: https://www.draftsite.com/nfl/draft-history/2012-2008/chicago/19/1/
Without even looking at the current roster, I'd say no
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Is this a trap? Because I know you're internet savvy enough to look this up yourself.
A quick gander at the list: https://www.draftsite.com/nfl/draft-history/2012-2008/chicago/19/1/
Without even looking at the current roster, I'd say no
Nope, not a trap. Just happened to hear someone on PMT say that, which is why I had to ask if that was true or not. They tend to exaggerate, yet sometimes bring up wild things that actually are true. Don't really follow the Bears enough when they are going to be as irrelevant as they will be this year to know what their roster of like 90 guys at this point looks like relative to what their draft picks were 5 years ago. Even looking at that list I'm not sure who's on the Bears roster at the moment.
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Nope, not a trap. Just happened to hear someone on PMT say that, which is why I had to ask if that was true or not. They tend to exaggerate, yet sometimes bring up wild things that actually are true. Don't really follow the Bears enough when they are going to be as irrelevant as they will be this year to know what their roster of like 90 guys at this point looks like relative to what their draft picks were 5 years ago. Even looking at that list I'm not sure who's on the Bears roster at the moment.
Fair. I'm 99% sure none of them are on the roster.
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I took my son to last weeks preseason game, I had trouble recognizing roughly 80% of the roster. I legit forgot Cruz was a Bear, when he scored, I said "huh?".
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I took my son to last weeks preseason game, I had trouble recognizing roughly 80% of the roster. I legit forgot Cruz was a Bear, when he scored, I said "huh?".
oh yeah, pablo they're kinda good, ehn'er?
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https://twitter.com/clevezirm/status/899784342557171712
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHytFYkVoAACX9x.jpg)
Get out your tiki torches!!
(I'm willing to bet more outrage over this than Ezekiel Elliot's actions)
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Proton pack for sure...with trap.
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I'm not upset about it, I simply don't get it. What do they think they're accomplishing? If you want to make a difference get out in your community and put in time volunteering. Raise awareness. Simply "objecting" to the National Anthem doesn't seem to have achieved anything. If anything, things have gotten worse. And, in Kaepernik's case, not using your vote certainly isn't helping given who is in office.
Set up meetings with law enforcement if you think that's the main issue. Volunteer and speak to people where gun violence is prevalent if you think that's the issue. Kneeling for the National Anthem prior to a 3 hour game that you get paid $1M in those 3 hours? Meh. Certainly doesn't shift my opinion on anything.
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I'm not upset about it, I simply don't get it. What do they think they're accomplishing? If you want to make a difference get out in your community and put in time volunteering. Raise awareness. Simply "objecting" to the National Anthem doesn't seem to have achieved anything. If anything, things have gotten worse. And, in Kaepernik's case, not using your vote certainly isn't helping given who is in office.
Set up meetings with law enforcement if you think that's the main issue. Volunteer and speak to people where gun violence is prevalent if you think that's the issue. Kneeling for the National Anthem prior to a 3 hour game that you get paid $1M in those 3 hours? Meh. Certainly doesn't shift my opinion on anything.
His "protest" on the football field generates far more publicity than his myriad community and charity works. The national media lathers itself with the kneeling but has little interest in his $1MM pledge in the last year, or the plane he helped fund and send to Somalia. Might not shift opinion but it's an attempt to raise awareness. Reception of said awareness varies (shrug)
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His "protest" on the football field generates far more publicity than his myriad community and charity works. The national media lathers itself with the kneeling but has little interest in his $1MM pledge in the last year, or the plane he helped fund and send to Somalia. Might not shift opinion but it's an attempt to raise awareness. Reception of said awareness varies (shrug)
What was his $1MM pledge to? Glad he does that if it's to a good cause and glad he sends a plane to Somalia.
That's kind of the exact point. He does these good things but nobody knows about them because he protests the National Anthem and that just pisses people off. What's kneeling accomplishing? Nothing positive. Just negative publicity and taking away publicity from the good he does. So maybe show the same respect for the country and for equality that you want shown to you during the National Anthem, do your good deeds, and when you get publicity for those good deeds use it as a platform to speak out against the injustices you believe are out there.
Getting mad that people get upset that multimillionaires playing a child's game are disrespecting the National Anthem is just as bad as the people who get mad at players disrespecting the National Anthem.
But hey, maybe all of those Browns players will be cut? Maybe Michael Bennet will be cut?
Of course not. They're good enough at playing football to make their teams. Kaepernik is not.
There are unquestionably some serious issues and injustices in this country. Disrespecting the National Anthem is not the solution. Or even a tippy toe step towards a solution. If anything (and it really is nothing, neither positive nor negative), it'll just create a greater divide.
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I'm not upset about it, I simply don't get it. What do they think they're accomplishing? If you want to make a difference get out in your community and put in time volunteering. Raise awareness. Simply "objecting" to the National Anthem doesn't seem to have achieved anything. If anything, things have gotten worse. And, in Kaepernik's case, not using your vote certainly isn't helping given who is in office.
Set up meetings with law enforcement if you think that's the main issue. Volunteer and speak to people where gun violence is prevalent if you think that's the issue. Kneeling for the National Anthem prior to a 3 hour game that you get paid $1M in those 3 hours? Meh. Certainly doesn't shift my opinion on anything.
I have no idea about the individuals in question, but who's to say they aren't doing all that and more? It's a peaceful protest and still draws attention. It's a talking point here at work this morning. Whether it shifts opinions, it has kept people talking. I didn't think it'd be near this long lasting when Kaepernick first took the knee.
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I have no idea about the individuals in question, but who's to say they aren't doing all that and more? It's a peaceful protest and still draws attention. It's a talking point here at work this morning. Whether it shifts opinions, it has kept people talking. I didn't think it'd be near this long lasting when Kaepernick first took the knee.
It's a talking point sure. But for what?
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What was his $1MM pledge to? Glad he does that if it's to a good cause and glad he sends a plane to Somalia.
That's kind of the exact point. He does these good things but nobody knows about them because he protests the National Anthem and that just pisses people off. What's kneeling accomplishing? Nothing positive. Just negative publicity and taking away publicity from the good he does. So maybe show the same respect for the country and for equality that you want shown to you during the National Anthem, do your good deeds, and when you get publicity for those good deeds use it as a platform to speak out against the injustices you believe are out there.
Getting mad that people get upset that multimillionaires playing a child's game are disrespecting the National Anthem is just as bad as the people who get mad at players disrespecting the National Anthem.
But hey, maybe all of those Browns players will be cut? Maybe Michael Bennet will be cut?
Of course not. They're good enough at playing football to make their teams. Kaepernik is not.
There are unquestionably some serious issues and injustices in this country. Disrespecting the National Anthem is not the solution. Or even a tippy toe step towards a solution. If anything (and it really is nothing, neither positive nor negative), it'll just create a greater divide.
I am 100% sure that Kaepernick would be on an NFL roster today if it weren't for the kneeling. The idea that he isn't good enough to be an NFL quarterback is simply wrong when you see all the other craptastic quarterbacks that are out there right now.
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I am 100% sure that Kaepernick would be on an NFL roster today if it weren't for the kneeling. The idea that he isn't good enough to be an NFL quarterback is simply wrong when you see all the other craptastic quarterbacks that are out there right now.
While I think he might be "better" than some backup quarterbacks, I don't think it's the kneeling that is keeping him off of a roster, I think it's the inability to play as a pocket quarterback. Sure, if you were forced to choose between Joe Callahan and Colin Kaepernick as your starting quarterback you would choose Kaepernick and create a spread option offense. But Kaepernick isn't good enough to be a starter and run your offense around, so if I have to pick between Kaepernick and Callahan on the Packers roster to run the Packers offense in the event that Aaron Rodgers tweaks his calf muscle and is out for 2 weeks? I'll take Callahan (and I'd take Hundley over Kaepernick regardless of what system I'm throwing him into). The only reason Kaepernick was ever good was because he was a threat to keep the ball and run. Sure, he could still break the pocket and take off a couple times a game, but when you don't have to scheme defensively for a spread option system, Kaepernick's dead duck throws are now getting picked off instead of having a wide receiver sit under them and wait for them to reach him while he's wide open.
Last season Aaron Rodgers was 3rd in the NFL in QB rushing yards, behind only Tyrod Taylor and Kaepernick. There just aren't offensive systems that fit with Kaepernick's skillset in the NFL. He was great for 3 years. He no longer has a place in the NFL. If he could help a team win he would.
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I am 100% sure that Kaepernick would be on an NFL roster today if it weren't for the kneeling. The idea that he isn't good enough to be an NFL quarterback is simply wrong when you see all the other craptastic quarterbacks that are out there right now.
Correct. Kaepernick isn't on a roster because his protest means that he brings controversy and distraction and a media circus. NFL teams don't want to deal with those things from back-up players/fringe starters. Aside from Michael Vick (who was far superior player to Kap), can anyone name a controversial back-up QB? Put Newton/Prescott/Winston in Kap's spot and they're obviously still starting. Put EJ Manuel in Kap's spot and he's unemployed.
I do agree with wades that I just don't see what's being accomplished by taking a knee. Sure, it got people talking but what are the tangible results? What if Kap had written the name of a different charity or cause on his shoes or eye black or a headband each week? He would have gotten fined by the NFL for that and it would have made him a sympathetic figure who was being punished for bringing attention (and likely $$$) to positive causes and social issues. Instead, taking a knee made him look like an overpaid athlete who doesn't respect the country that allows him the opportunity to be an overpaid athlete. The protest became about Colin Kaepernick and not about social injustice.
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What was his $1MM pledge to? Glad he does that if it's to a good cause and glad he sends a plane to Somalia.
That's kind of the exact point. He does these good things but nobody knows about them because he protests the National Anthem and that just pisses people off. What's kneeling accomplishing? Nothing positive. Just negative publicity and taking away publicity from the good he does. So maybe show the same respect for the country and for equality that you want shown to you during the National Anthem, do your good deeds, and when you get publicity for those good deeds use it as a platform to speak out against the injustices you believe are out there.
He pledged to give away $1MM of his salary in 2017 to a variety of charities. But you also highlighted the hypocrisy of a lot of people's complaints about him.
"Dont just protest, actually do something"
(all his actions off the field are highlighted)
"Well...go about your actions and concerns in a different way"
I certainly don't agree with all he's done, the voting issue and the socks were both bad looks. But I also don't agree that fundamental systemic change occurs from people quietly and humbly working in the background.
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But hey, maybe all of those Browns players will be cut? Maybe Michael Bennet will be cut?
Of course not. They're good enough at playing football to make their teams. Kaepernik is not.
You really don't think Kaepernik is one of the 60 best QBs around? He is better than ANY Bear QB.
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"can anyone name a controversial back-up QB?"
yes-t.j. rubley-packers-1995-the audible heard around the world-i think his bags were packed before he hit the locker room ;D
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What was his $1MM pledge to? Glad he does that if it's to a good cause and glad he sends a plane to Somalia.
That's kind of the exact point. He does these good things but nobody knows about them because he protests the National Anthem and that just pisses people off. What's kneeling accomplishing? Nothing positive. Just negative publicity and taking away publicity from the good he does. So maybe show the same respect for the country and for equality that you want shown to you during the National Anthem, do your good deeds, and when you get publicity for those good deeds use it as a platform to speak out against the injustices you believe are out there.
Getting mad that people get upset that multimillionaires playing a child's game are disrespecting the National Anthem is just as bad as the people who get mad at players disrespecting the National Anthem.
...
There are unquestionably some serious issues and injustices in this country. Disrespecting the National Anthem is not the solution. Or even a tippy toe step towards a solution. If anything (and it really is nothing, neither positive nor negative), it'll just create a greater divide.
The problem with this is that it totally looks past what its actually like to be a black guy in America, and ignores that the protest, in addition to "trying to accomplish" greater goals, is also a reflection of how Kaepernick actually feels. I truly don't understand how after seeing the response of the President of the United States to Charlottesville, the takeaway from Kaep, et. al. kneeling during the anthem can be that its "disrespectful."
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The problem with this is that it totally looks past what its actually like to be a black guy in America, and ignores that the protest, in addition to "trying to accomplish" greater goals, is also a reflection of how Kaepernick actually feels. I truly don't understand how after seeing the response of the President of the United States to Charlottesville, the takeaway from Kaep, et. al. kneeling during the anthem can be that its "disrespectful."
The National Anthem has never had anything to do with the president or a tribute to the president. Kneeling during the National Anthem is absolutely disrespectful. And that's the problem. Their "solution" to injustice in America is to kneel during the National Anthem, and since they've begun this "protest" things have only gotten worse (which I don't think is because of the "protests" by athletes kneeling, but it also isn't helping). People can say that it's wrong to say someone should "go about [their] actions and concerns differently," but when they're going about those actions and concerns and it's doing absolutely nothing to help the situation, they probably should do just that.
Just one man's opinion. But when I am trying to fix something I see as a problem and what I'm doing clearly isn't working, I don't just try to ratchet up the intensity with which I am doing it. "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."
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The National Anthem has never had anything to do with the president or a tribute to the president. Kneeling during the National Anthem is absolutely disrespectful. And that's the problem. Their "solution" to injustice in America is to kneel during the National Anthem, and since they've begun this "protest" things have only gotten worse (which I don't think is because of the "protests" by athletes kneeling, but it also isn't helping). People can say that it's wrong to say someone should "go about [their] actions and concerns differently," but when they're going about those actions and concerns and it's doing absolutely nothing to help the situation, they probably should do just that.
Just one man's opinion. But when I am trying to fix something I see as a problem and what I'm doing clearly isn't working, I don't just try to ratchet up the intensity with which I am doing it. "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."
I'll give my two cents and then back off, lest I get mad online, but to be frank, I just think this is disingenuous. This isn't about how they're "going about solving the problem." Its about the fact that a wide segment of society, for self-serving reasons, doesn't see the problem as a problem, while paying lip service to the problem. I'm dubious of the claim that if Kaep or BLM "went about their business differently" they'd suddenly find society writ large a more sympathetic audience.
Every venue that is used for this sort of thing - whether the national anthem at sporting events, marches that disrupt traffic, strikes, the 1968 olympics, and so on, somehow "aren't the right way to go about things" as they are happening. And the resistance to the message is then used as evidence that the message must be wrong. Its akin to saying "well shucks, people would be more sympathetic if they hadn't refused to get out of the road - those protests are just turning people against them!" Meanwhile, when its convenient, the anthem, flag, and other symbols, somehow represent only the best of what America stands for, but when convenient, cease to represent its current institutions or leadership.
Edited because I'll admit that I went too far in my hose "example" by implicating active physical opposition to the right to protest, and thereby undermined my own argument.
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I do agree with wades that I just don't see what's being accomplished by taking a knee. Sure, it got people talking but what are the tangible results?
Getting people talking about it is a tangible result.
Look, nothing Kaepernik does publicly or privately is going to bring substantive change to the problems he's addressing. He could donate his career earnings to some cause or another, and it won't change the issues he's addressing.
Changes like these are societal. And the way to create societal change is first and foremost to make people aware of the problem and get them talking about it. Talk changes minds, changes hearts, changes laws, if necessary. But none of that change comes out of thin air. First you need awareness and discussion.
To that end, Kaepernick's protest has been a massive success.
Also, change of this sort is very slow. It took a decade to get from Brown v. Board of Education and Rosa Parks to the Civil Rights Act.
To suggest Kap's protest is a failure because you don't see what you subjectively view as "tangible results" 11 months later misses the point/
Instead, taking a knee made him look like an overpaid athlete who doesn't respect the country that allows him the opportunity to be an overpaid athlete. The protest became about Colin Kaepernick and not about social injustice.
Oh, horse----.
This country doesn't "allow" anyone to be an overpaid athlete. They earn their money by being exceptional at something few others on the planet can do, and work in a field (i.e. sports) that's probably the closest thing to a true meritocracy we have on this planet. And the U.S. is hardly the only country that sees athletes plying their trade for huge money.
The protest became about Colin Kaepernick because his critics would rather discuss his hair, his girlfriend, his diet, his socks, his on-field performance, his relationship with his teammates, his relationship with his coaches, his T-shirts,his place on the depth chart, his voting habits, his vacation destinations and just about anything except the issues that sparked his protest in the first place.
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Getting people talking about it is a tangible result.
Look, nothing Kaepernik does publicly or privately is going to bring substantive change to the problems he's addressing. He could donate his career earnings to some cause or another, and it won't change the issues he's addressing.
Changes like these are societal. And the way to create societal change is first and foremost to make people aware of the problem and get them talking about it. Talk changes minds, changes hearts, changes laws, if necessary. But none of that change comes out of thin air. First you need awareness and discussion.
To that end, Kaepernick's protest has been a massive success.
Also, change of this sort is very slow. It took a decade to get from Brown v. Board of Education and Rosa Parks to the Civil Rights Act.
To suggest Kap's protest is a failure because you don't see what you subjectively view as "tangible results" 11 months later misses the point/
Oh, horse----.
This country doesn't "allow" anyone to be an overpaid athlete. They earn their money by being exceptional at something few others on the planet can do, and work in a field (i.e. sports) that's probably the closest thing to a true meritocracy we have on this planet. And the U.S. is hardly the only country that sees athletes plying their trade for huge money.
The protest became about Colin Kaepernick because his critics would rather discuss his hair, his girlfriend, his diet, his socks, his on-field performance, his relationship with his teammates, his relationship with his coaches, his T-shirts,his place on the depth chart, his voting habits, his vacation destinations and just about anything except the issues that sparked his protest in the first place.
The first half of your response compared to the second half of your response are exactly why his "protest" is a failure. IF his "protest" got people talking about the injustices in society then great, you are certainly correct that that is the first, biggest, and most necessary step to creating a change for the better. And you are correct that his "protest" does have people talking. The problem is that it doesn't have people talking about injustices in society, it simply has people talking about athletes kneeling during the National Anthem. The "protests" are not hitting their "target." That is where the issue is.
I'll give my two cents and then back off, lest I get mad online, but to be frank, I just think this is disingenuous. This isn't about how they're "going about solving the problem." Its about the fact that a wide segment of society, for self-serving reasons, doesn't see the problem as a problem, while paying lip service to the problem. I'm dubious of the claim that if Kaep or BLM "went about their business differently" they'd suddenly find society writ large a more sympathetic audience.
Every venue that is used for this sort of thing - whether the national anthem at sporting events, marches that disrupt traffic, strikes, the 1968 olympics, and so on, somehow "aren't the right way to go about things" as they are happening. And the resistance to the message is then used as evidence that the message must be wrong. Its akin to saying "well shucks, people would be more sympathetic if they hadn't refused to get out of the road - those protests are just turning people against them!" Meanwhile, when its convenient, the anthem, flag, and other symbols, somehow represent only the best of what America stands for, but when convenient, cease to represent its current institutions or leadership.
Edited because I'll admit that I went too far in my hose "example" by implicating active physical opposition to the right to protest, and thereby undermined my own argument.
Sorry, but we're just going to have to agree to disagree that the National Anthem is in tribute to the President of the USA. If that's me simply using it when it's convenient for me and then ignoring it when it's not, so be it, but absolutely nothing in the lyrics or how it's used has anything to do with the leader of the country.
There are, unquestionably, more effective measures to go about creating change. MLK and Malcolm X both were fighting for a similar cause. One had a "more sympathetic audience."
If Kaepernik's (and the athletes who have followed his lead) "protests" were hitting their mark and had everyone talking about the changes needed to our society then good for him, he's getting it done. Unfortunately that is not at all what the discussions about kneeling athletes are about.
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The first half of your response compared to the second half of your response are exactly why his "protest" is a failure. IF his "protest" got people talking about the injustices in society then great, you are certainly correct that that is the first, biggest, and most necessary step to creating a change for the better. And you are correct that his "protest" does have people talking. The problem is that it doesn't have people talking about injustices in society, it simply has people talking about athletes kneeling during the National Anthem. The "protests" are not hitting their "target." That is where the issue is.
He's been kneeling for a year. Do you expect vast societal change to occur in a year?
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He's been kneeling for a year. Do you expect vast societal change to occur in a year?
No, but I do expect that if the "protests" were to ever lead to legitimate discussions about what changes need to be made in society and how they might be made those discussions would have started by now. Instead the discussion continues to simply be, "The amount of players kneeling is up to 11 for the Browns now!" Or, "This Caucasian player put his hand on this kneeling African American's shoulder!" It's not WHY are these players kneeling, it's simply, "Hey look, people are kneeling."
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No, but I do expect that if the "protests" were to ever lead to legitimate discussions about what changes need to be made in society and how they might be made those discussions would have started by now
Are you saying there's a lack of discussion in this country about social justice, race relations and police relationships with the communities they serve?
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Are you saying there's a lack of discussion in this country about social justice, race relations and police relationships with the communities they serve?
In this particular response? No. I'm saying that if Kaepernick and those that have followed were looking to create discussion and change it does not appear to be effective.
But I do think there is that. And I don't think the way to go about creating those discussions is to wear pig socks with a police hat on it, refuse to vote, or kneel for the National Anthem.
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Maybe we should stop playing the anthem before sporting events. I blame the Cubs for that.
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Getting people talking about it is a tangible result.
Look, nothing Kaepernik does publicly or privately is going to bring substantive change to the problems he's addressing. He could donate his career earnings to some cause or another, and it won't change the issues he's addressing.
Changes like these are societal. And the way to create societal change is first and foremost to make people aware of the problem and get them talking about it. Talk changes minds, changes hearts, changes laws, if necessary. But none of that change comes out of thin air. First you need awareness and discussion.
To that end, Kaepernick's protest has been a massive success.
Also, change of this sort is very slow. It took a decade to get from Brown v. Board of Education and Rosa Parks to the Civil Rights Act.
To suggest Kap's protest is a failure because you don't see what you subjectively view as "tangible results" 11 months later misses the point/
The protest became about Colin Kaepernick because his critics would rather discuss his hair, his girlfriend, his diet, his socks, his on-field performance, his relationship with his teammates, his relationship with his coaches, his T-shirts,his place on the depth chart, his voting habits, his vacation destinations and just about anything except the issues that sparked his protest in the first place.
Yes, the protest got people talking but are they actually talking about the issues that matter? According to you...NO.
I agree with Colin Kaepernick that this country has major issues with racism and social injustice (it's hard not to). However, I don't think that his means of bringing awareness to this issue has hit its desired target.
I notice you left out the portion of my post with an alternative idea for raising awareness. Any thoughts on that?
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In this particular response? No. I'm saying that if Kaepernick and those that have followed were looking to create discussion and change it does not appear to be effective.
Based on what? How are you measuring effectiveness here.
I could spend about 10 minutes on Google finding many, many stories and columns about social justice issues using Kaepernick's protest as a starting point.
And I don't think the way to go about creating those discussions is to wear pig socks with a police hat on it, refuse to vote, or kneel for the National Anthem.
Then what is the proper way, in your opinion?
Seems to me that one couldn't find many better forums to raise this issue than the most popular professional sports league in the country, one that consistently produces the most-watched television programming week after week during the season.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but virtually every person who's taken a strong stand for civil rights and social justice in this country has been told they were going about it the wrong way.
The truth is, asking politely for change has never worked in this country.
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Based on what? How are you measuring effectiveness here.
I could spend about 10 minutes on Google finding many, many stories and columns about social justice issues using Kaepernick's protest as a starting point.
Then what is the proper way, in your opinion?
Seems to me that one couldn't find many better forums to raise this issue than the most popular professional sports league in the country, one that consistently produces the most-watched television programming week after week during the season.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but virtually every person who's taken a strong stand for civil rights and social justice in this country has been told they were going about it the wrong way.
The truth is, asking politely for change has never worked in this country.
Rarely worked. I would argue that it worked very well for the LGBTQ community.
But I agree with you in general.
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Yes, the protest got people talking but are they actually talking about the issues that matter? According to you...NO.
No, that's not what I said. I believe Kap's protest has created earnest discussion of the issues he's raised among many people ... and I'm sure I could find some of the many articles/columns online to prove this.
What I said it that it is his critics who willfully ignore the substantive issues to instead focus on his clothing, vegan diet, hair, etc.
I notice you left out the portion of my post with an alternative idea for raising awareness. Any thoughts on that?
I don't think wearing a headband or eyeblack espousing some charity would be nearly as successful in drawing public attention to an issue (and what charity do you suggest fort his cause, anyhow?). In fact, I think the vast majority of football fans wouldn't notice or care, and it certainly would go unseen by 100 percent of non-football fans.
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Rarely worked. I would argue that it worked very well for the LGBTQ community.
But I agree with you in general.
Two thoughts:
1. It's a very fair point, but gay activism hasn't always been especially polite. Act Up. Stonewall. White Night Riots. Large protests outside (and during) services at Catholic churches.
2. Gay people, possibly because it's easier for them to hide their identity easier than say, a person of color, have found it much easier historically (at least until they were outed) to ascend to positions of influence in this country, which makes it easier to work within the system for change rather than against it.
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No, that's not what I said. I believe Kap's protest has created earnest discussion of the issues he's raised among many people ... and I'm sure I could find some of the many articles/columns online to prove this.
What I said it that it is his critics who willfully ignore the substantive issues to instead focus on his clothing, vegan diet, hair, etc.
I don't think wearing a headband or eyeblack espousing some charity would be nearly as successful in drawing public attention to an issue (and what charity do you suggest fort his cause, anyhow?). In fact, I think the vast majority of football fans wouldn't notice or care, and it certainly would go unseen by 100 percent of non-football fans.
Kaepernick's sock choice with pigs in a police hat got more discussion than the real reason Kaepernick says he kneels during the National Anthem. Why wouldn't his choice of clothing if it had the Statue of Liberty or some symbol of freedom or equality generate discussion? At the very least it can't hurt, things aren't getting any better as they stand.
Kurt Schilling's clothing got attention for a cause he believed in.
https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2004/10/27/317774/66403/en/Curt-s-ALS-Shoe-Pitch-Seen-by-the-World-Raises-Awareness-of-Lou-Gehrig-s-Disease.html
It happens all the time. The NBA took a stand against Donald Sterling by wearing shirts, refusing to wear Clippers gear, etc. and he eventually sold the team.
I'd bet being respectful and polite gives you a better shot at positive change than wearing pig in cop hat socks or kneeling during the National Anthem. Being disrespectful typically seems to create a further divide between people.
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Kaepernick's sock choice with pigs in a police hat got more discussion than the real reason Kaepernick says he kneels during the National Anthem.
This obviously is not true.
Why wouldn't his choice of clothing if it had the Statue of Liberty or some symbol of freedom or equality generate discussion? At the very least it can't hurt, things aren't getting any better as they stand.
Because nobody would care or notice.
Kurt Schilling's clothing got attention for a cause he believed in.
Schilling may not be the best example.
(http://media2.scrippsnationalnews.com/photo/2016/11/08/Screen%20Shot%202016-11-07%20at%205.10.51%20PM_1478619281255_49314614_ver1.0_400_300.png)
I'd bet being respectful and polite gives you a better shot at positive change than wearing pig in cop hat socks or kneeling during the National Anthem. Being disrespectful typically seems to create a further divide between people.
Kap's socks were stupid, but trying to dismiss his entire message because of one idiotic decision about one pair of socks one particular day is simply a means to avoid discussion of the real issues. You're jangling a shiny set of keys in front of an infant.
Pretty much every significant civil rights protest also was viewed as "disrespectful" by those who sought to maintain the status quo.
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This obviously is not true.
Because nobody would care or notice.
Schilling may not be the best example.
(http://media2.scrippsnationalnews.com/photo/2016/11/08/Screen%20Shot%202016-11-07%20at%205.10.51%20PM_1478619281255_49314614_ver1.0_400_300.png)
Kap's socks were stupid, but trying to dismiss his entire message because of one idiotic decision about one pair of socks one particular day is simply a means to avoid discussion of the real issues. You're jangling a shiny set of keys in front of an infant.
Pretty much every significant civil rights protest also was viewed as "disrespectful" by those who sought to maintain the status quo.
Schilling raised over $5 million for ALS. His shoes got national publicity when he wrote K ALS on them in Sharpie just like Kaepernick's socks did and just like Kaepernick's clothes would if he wore something drawing attention to the freedoms he feels are being denied from people if he chose that route instead of the disrespectful rout with his choice of clothing.
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Kaepernick's sock choice with pigs in a police hat got more discussion than the real reason Kaepernick says he kneels during the National Anthem. Why wouldn't his choice of clothing if it had the Statue of Liberty or some symbol of freedom or equality generate discussion? At the very least it can't hurt, things aren't getting any better as they stand.
Kurt Schilling's clothing got attention for a cause he believed in.
https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2004/10/27/317774/66403/en/Curt-s-ALS-Shoe-Pitch-Seen-by-the-World-Raises-Awareness-of-Lou-Gehrig-s-Disease.html
It happens all the time. The NBA took a stand against Donald Sterling by wearing shirts, refusing to wear Clippers gear, etc. and he eventually sold the team.
I'd bet being respectful and polite gives you a better shot at positive change than wearing pig in cop hat socks or kneeling during the National Anthem. Being disrespectful typically seems to create a further divide between people.
Couple of winning examples of a vile racist like Donald Sterling and homophobe in Curt Schilling to support your case Wades ::) ::) ::)
Tell me of your hot takes about social injustice.
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Couple of winning examples of a vile racist like Donald Sterling and homophobe in Curt Schilling to support your case Wades ::) ::) ::)
Tell me of your hot takes about social injustice.
So in the Donald Sterling example it's...well, exactly the type of thing that Kaepernick's claims to be standing up against? Lol. Not sure what your point is here...
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Football isn't officially back until we start seeing the articles on how Jay Cutler looks like he could have an MVP/career year. Well, football is officially back! SI.com's front page, main article is about how Jay Cutler looks poised to have a career year in Miami. Haven't seen this story before. ::)
Would be pretty freaking funny if it happened, though.
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Football isn't officially back until we start seeing the articles on how Jay Cutler looks like he could have an MVP/career year. Well, football is officially back! SI.com's front page, main article is about how Jay Cutler looks poised to have a career year in Miami. Haven't seen this story before. ::)
Would be pretty freaking funny if it happened, though.
A career year for Jay really is still a pretty low bar.
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Football isn't officially back until we start seeing the articles on how Jay Cutler looks like he could have an MVP/career year. Well, football is officially back! SI.com's front page, main article is about how Jay Cutler looks poised to have a career year in Miami. Haven't seen this story before. ::)
Would be pretty freaking funny if it happened, though.
Nowhere does it mention MVP. Not once. The most positive/hyperbolic line is this (if it's even considered hyperbolic):
Was he a great quarterback? No. Could he be a top-15 quarterback, a good player on a playoff contender, in the right place? Absolutely.
He could have a career year. So what?
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Nowhere does it mention MVP. Not once. The most positive/hyperbolic line is this (if it's even considered hyperbolic):
He could have a career year. So what?
Not sure where I said it mentioned MVP. Once or more than once. I said it wouldn't be football season without an article on how Jay Cutler looks ready to have an MVP/career year. I've seen MVP thrown around his name in the preseason in years past and I've seen "career year" thrown around, well, every year for Cutler. Every year in the preseason, "Cutler looks incredible." Awesome. Let me know when he values the football in the regular season and I might change my mind on him. Until then? Well, "Same Old Jay."
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Not sure where I said it mentioned MVP. Once or more than once. I said it wouldn't be football season without an article on how Jay Cutler looks ready to have an MVP/career year. I've seen MVP thrown around his name in the preseason in years past and I've seen "career year" thrown around, well, every year for Cutler. Every year in the preseason, "Cutler looks incredible." Awesome. Let me know when he values the football in the regular season and I might change my mind on him. Until then? Well, "Same Old Jay."
He's no longer a Bear. You don't need to obsess over him any longer.
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He's no longer a Bear. You don't need to obsess over him any longer.
Wasn't really searching anything out. Went to SI.com where I go a couple times a day. It happened to be the main article on the front page. I will remember to ask your permission for which websites I can visit from now on.
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Football isn't officially back until we start seeing the articles on how Jay Cutler looks like he could have an MVP/career year. Well, football is officially back! SI.com's front page, main article is about how Jay Cutler looks poised to have a career year in Miami. Haven't seen this story before. ::)
Would be pretty freaking funny if it happened, though.
Never before has there been a 34-year-old man with this much untapped potential.
4 more years until Tebow is eligible.
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Stafford just signed a 5 yr, $135m deal with the lions. Zero post season wins. Sub .500 career record.
Makes the Cutler contract with the bears look like a good deal...
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Stafford just signed a 5 yr, $135m deal with the lions. Zero post season wins. Sub .500 career record.
Makes the Cutler contract with the bears look like a good deal...
Stafford's a lot better than Cutler ever was. But Stafford isn't great either.
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I'm surprised Stafford took that deal, he gave the Lions a decent hometown discount. Stafford had 100% leverage here.
No one should ever compare what QB's make to one another. All that matters is when you sign, what the guarantee is, and when the opt out starts.
Cousins will get $26 - $28 mil APY next year from someone. Rodgers will get $30 - $33 mil APY two summers from now.
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Stafford just signed a 5 yr, $135m deal with the lions. Zero post season wins. Sub .500 career record.
Makes the Cutler contract with the bears look like a good deal...
Stafford also has a worse team for years than Favre did 2005.
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Stafford, like Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson before him, is burdened with a crap team around him. He may put up his best numbers ever this year (if his line can keep him upright) and it won't matter, as the defensive line is so bad that Detroit will give up 30 a game. He is the only player on the team other teams actually have to game plan for. Witness how the season turned last year after he broke a finger on his throwing hand and his efficiency dropped. Went from possible home field advantage to a wild card loss, as nobody else on the team could make a play.
In comparison to Cutler, Stafford is beloved by his teammates and recognized as their leader and best player. To borrow a phrase from politics, he is a uniter, not a divider.
Finally, nobody out there that is better is likely to become available.
BTW, due to defensive deficiencies, 6-10.
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Rodgers' gonna 'clipse dem all, ai na?
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My favorite Matt Stafford stat: his record v. teams over .500 is 5-46. Yeah that probably says more about the Lions than anything, but still...
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In comparison to Cutler, Stafford is beloved by his teammates and recognized as their leader and best player. To borrow a phrase from politics, he is a uniter, not a divider.
It's a common misconception that Cutler is/was disliked by his teammates. Sure, there's an article every once is a while about some random teammate who didn't like him, but if that's the story that a journalist is looking for, he can find it about literally any NFL QB.
Finally, nobody out there that is better is likely to become available.
This. 90% of starting QBs are "overpaid" because there's just not a surplus out there. Getting rid of an above average QB basically means bottoming out and starting over and hoping that you can draft a QB who will eventually be more than just above average, while knowing that most QBs won't be. Stafford is not "elite," he's not going to be an MVP and he's not a guy who's going to put a team on his back and carry them on a playoff run. Yet, he's still one of the most valuable commodities in sports.
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My favorite Matt Stafford stat: his record v. teams over .500 is 5-46. Yeah that probably says more about the Lions than anything, but still...
It says far more about the rest of the team. If Derek Carr gets $25 mil a year, $27 for Stafford is not out of line. How much will Cousins get next year? Or Brees, should he want to continue? It is all obscene, but it is the market. With that settled, maybe they can start putting the pieces around him, particularly on defense. Of course, this being the Lions, we all know that won't happen and that Stafford is most likely to suffer a season (possibly career) ending injury in the next 6 weeks.
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It's a common misconception that Cutler is/was disliked by his teammates.
Mike Wilbon is a journalist I respect - even if he admits he is a Bears fan - and he said yesterday on PTI that he has talked to "a lot of" Cutler's former teammates who said they disliked Jay and that they believed they would never win big with Jay at QB.
Now, maybe Wilbon is lying (which I doubt, but I guess it's possible) or maybe he is exaggerating (more possible; maybe it was only 2-3 players), or maybe the players he happened to talk to were malcontents, jerks, in a bad mood that day, etc.
But I don't see any source anywhere that would confirm the contention that Cutler was liked and/or respected by the majority of his teammates. I don't know how anybody could determine such a thing, anyway. So Wilbon's personal anecdote is at least as legit as a guy on Scoop saying, "It's a common misconception that Cutler is/was disliked by his teammates."
Please don't take offense at that, MM. It could have been any guy on Scoop - including me. Just happened to be you in this example.
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Mike Wilbon is a journalist I respect - even if he admits he is a Bears fan - and he said yesterday on PTI that he has talked to "a lot of" Cutler's former teammates who said they disliked Jay and that they believed they would never win big with Jay at QB.
Now, maybe Wilbon is lying (which I doubt, but I guess it's possible) or maybe he is exaggerating (more possible; maybe it was only 2-3 players), or maybe the players he happened to talk to were malcontents, jerks, in a bad mood that day, etc.
But I don't see any source anywhere that would confirm the contention that Cutler was liked and/or respected by the majority of his teammates. I don't know how anybody could determine such a thing, anyway. So Wilbon's personal anecdote is at least as legit as a guy on Scoop saying, "It's a common misconception that Cutler is/was disliked by his teammates."
Please don't take offense at that, MM. It could have been any guy on Scoop - including me. Just happened to be you in this example.
No offense taken.
Although he's Bears fan, Wilbon HATES Jay Cutler (he also hates Pace and Trubisky, FWIW). He's not exactly an unbiased source and perhaps he talked to 5 guys and considers that to be "a lot." Who knows? But like I said, it's not hard to find players who don't like a teammate. I'm sure Wilbon could also find "a lot" of teammates who don't like Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady or you-name-him.
Jermon Bushrod described Cutler as "a great teammate" and "a good lockerroom guy." Back-up QB David Fales said Cutler was "one of the more influential people in my career." Kyle Long and Zach Miller tweeted high praise for Cutler when he was released. Cam Meredith and OC Dowell Loggains both said that the perception of Jay being bad in the lockerroom is incorrect. Yes, I understand that it's also not hard to find players who DO like a teammate but those comments certainly don't fit the media narrative of Cutler being a bad lockerroom guy.
Sidenote: If guys don't respect Cutler because he's an anti-vaxxers then that's completely legit ;)
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No one calling out AR for supporting Kaepernick. Must be a coincidence.
http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/30/packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-supports-anthem-protests-colin-kaepernick/
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Brooks to the Packers. Some depth for when Clay is out every other series. Would love for the Packers to go after Haden, but it sounds like they're not in the running.
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No one calling out AR for supporting Kaepernick. Must be a coincidence.
http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/30/packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-supports-anthem-protests-colin-kaepernick/
Ha, no kidding.
Silence on the Western front, innit?
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No one calling out AR for supporting Kaepernick. Must be a coincidence.
http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/30/packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-supports-anthem-protests-colin-kaepernick/
White guys can do what they want. Chris Long didn't get much flak for supporting Malcolm Jenkins raising his fist during the anthem.
I had to laugh - mostly out of sadness - when, after Long showed his support of Jenkins, I heard an announcer commenting that maybe the protest was now legitimate because a white guy was standing up for the cause.
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No one calling out AR for supporting Kaepernick. Must be a coincidence.
http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/30/packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-supports-anthem-protests-colin-kaepernick/
He basically said nothing. He supports guys' efforts to protest but he's not going to get personally involved in kneeling.
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No offense taken.
Although he's Bears fan, Wilbon HATES Jay Cutler (he also hates Pace and Trubisky, FWIW). He's not exactly an unbiased source and perhaps he talked to 5 guys and considers that to be "a lot." Who knows? But like I said, it's not hard to find players who don't like a teammate. I'm sure Wilbon could also find "a lot" of teammates who don't like Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady or you-name-him.
Wilbon is also the old guard of journalism who expects players to kiss the media's butt, so much like Tom Jackson whose entire criticism of Cutler's demeanor revolves around his demeanor in the hallway of Mile High one time, its not hard to imagine that. Wilbon used to be good, but now is a caricature of himself and is one of the most ardent "GET OFF MY LAWN YOUTHS" in the sports media world.
My friend ran into him at a NW tailgate, said he was a really nice guy and was willing to chat sports with anyone...then proceeded to rip on and rant about various Chicago sports figures and teams for 20 min till he left.
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White guys can do what they want. Chris Long didn't get much flak for supporting Malcolm Jenkins raising his fist during the anthem.
I had to laugh - mostly out of sadness - when, after Long showed his support of Jenkins, I heard an announcer commenting that maybe the protest was now legitimate because a white guy was standing up for the cause.
I believe *you* "heard" that, but I wonder what was ACTUALLY said...
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No one calling out AR for supporting Kaepernick. Must be a coincidence.
http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/30/packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-supports-anthem-protests-colin-kaepernick/
not really-it's not only a good safe answer, but he's respecting kaeps right to "free speech" nothing wrong with that. he may be one of the 64 best qb's in the league-holy cow! man-are the gm's and/or owners missing out(sarcasm). they don't feel the baggage is worth taking one of the "64 best qb's in the league. i wouldn't doubt if the hungarian-american is making up for the lost wages to further the cause, enn'a?
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No offense taken.
Although he's Bears fan, Wilbon HATES Jay Cutler (he also hates Pace and Trubisky, FWIW). He's not exactly an unbiased source and perhaps he talked to 5 guys and considers that to be "a lot." Who knows? But like I said, it's not hard to find players who don't like a teammate. I'm sure Wilbon could also find "a lot" of teammates who don't like Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady or you-name-him.
Jermon Bushrod described Cutler as "a great teammate" and "a good lockerroom guy." Back-up QB David Fales said Cutler was "one of the more influential people in my career." Kyle Long and Zach Miller tweeted high praise for Cutler when he was released. Cam Meredith and OC Dowell Loggains both said that the perception of Jay being bad in the lockerroom is incorrect. Yes, I understand that it's also not hard to find players who DO like a teammate but those comments certainly don't fit the media narrative of Cutler being a bad lockerroom guy.
Sidenote: If guys don't respect Cutler because he's an anti-vaxxers then that's completely legit ;)
Agree that Wilbon hates Cutler. I don't think he hates Trubisky; he just is skeptical that Trubisky can be the answer and he thinks the Bears paid too much to get him. It's an opinion.
Those were a lot of good examples of ex-teammates supporting Jay. So I guess there are plenty who liked/respected him, and plenty who didn't. As you say, that's the case with most QBs.
Anyway, as an objective, detached observer with no horse in the race, my main beef with Jay is simply that he did not win enough and that he had a knack for screwing up. I know that all the losing wasn't his "fault," but that goes with the territory when you're the QB.
Wilbon is also the old guard of journalism who expects players to kiss the media's butt, so much like Tom Jackson whose entire criticism of Cutler's demeanor revolves around his demeanor in the hallway of Mile High one time, its not hard to imagine that. Wilbon used to be good, but now is a caricature of himself and is one of the most ardent "GET OFF MY LAWN YOUTHS" in the sports media world.
This is fair. Wilbon used to be a very good columnist but then he got TV-ized. I used to know him well enough to say "yo" to; we certainly weren't friends, but I never felt he "big-timed" me.
But he's a "personality" now. He loves to talk about all the guys he knows, etc. And yes, like all humans, he likes people who take a personal interest in him. When he was a reporter, that wasn't a "thing."
So I probably shouldn't call him a "journalist" any more, as I did in my earlier comment. I do still respect him more than I respect most talking heads, and the Wilbon/Kornheiser show is the only one of its kind I can stomach because I actually like both guys. I fully understand how others might have different opinions of them.
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http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/enterpriseRodgers/green-bay-packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-unmasked-searching
I really enjoyed this article. Thought it was real written and gave an interesting of Rodgers as a person in and outside of the game.
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So before cut-downs come out, here's my recommendation for TT. Keep Taysom Hill on your 53. You know the plan is to shop Hundley next off season. Hill slides seamlessly into #2 then. You can never have too many good players, especially at the most important position, and they're real hard to find. And if that means they go one short on the O-line or one of the rookie HBs heads to the PS, so be it. They're just replaceable 'guys'.
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I don't think Hundley or Hill are anything more than "replaceable guys." I think if Rodgers goes down and either has to start a number of games the Packers are in trouble. Neither will ever be a starting quarterback in the NFL, if you ask me.
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So before cut-downs come out, here's my recommendation for TT. Keep Taysom Hill on your 53. You know the plan is to shop Hundley next off season. Hill slides seamlessly into #2 then. You can never have too many good players, especially at the most important position, and they're real hard to find. And if that means they go one short on the O-line or one of the rookie HBs heads to the PS, so be it. They're just replaceable 'guys'.
I agree with Wades.
All we know about Hill is that he can run, he can hand off the ball, and he gets hurt a lot. Dime a dozen for guys like that.
As for Hundley, hopefully some team sees something more than I do and he can fetch maybe a 3rd rounder. If AR goes down, we will just be the northern version of the Bears with a worse defense.
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I agree with Wades.
All we know about Hill is that he can run, he can hand off the ball, and he gets hurt a lot. Dime a dozen for guys like that.
As for Hundley, hopefully some team sees something more than I do and he can fetch maybe a 3rd rounder. If AR goes down, we will just be the northern version of the Bears with a worse defense.
Was that a bears defense compliment?
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Every pre-season for 20 years Packers fans talk about the back up QBs that get playing time against vanilla, second team defenses in the pre-season. And the only two that have been worth a damn are Matt Hasselbeck and Aaron Rodgers.
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Every pre-season for 20 years Packers fans talk about the back up QBs that get playing time against vanilla, second team defenses in the pre-season. And the only two that have been worth a damn are Matt Hasselbeck and Aaron Rodgers.
Mark Brunell and Aaron Brooks both went on to be solid starters. That said, I don't see Hundley at that level. A capable #2 but not a starter. Not sure he'll have much trade value next off season with only one year of control and a strong looking QB draft in 2018.
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You guys mean all those Packers backups that would have started for the Bears? I actually agree about Hundley. Unfortunately they spent the summer trying to showcase him for next year, with limited success. So you guys think they can sneak Hill on the PS? I don't.
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You guys mean all those Packers backups that would have started for the Bears? I actually agree about Hundley. Unfortunately they spent the summer trying to showcase him for next year, with limited success. So you guys think they can sneak Hill on the PS? I don't.
I think Hill probably makes the roster because I think going with 2 quarterbacks burned the Packers a few years ago. But I don't think this is anymore than what we saw last year with all the hype around Callahan in the preseason where people thought this guy came out of nowhere and was the real deal to make the team and be a really valuable guy.
Hill has made some nice plays in the preseason, but he's done so against players who won't be on NFL rosters 24 hours from now.
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Hill is also 27. The NFL isn't too favorable to old quarterbacks starting out at an advanced age (see: Brandon Weeden).
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Hill is also 27. The NFL isn't too favorable to old quarterbacks starting out at an advanced age (see: Brandon Weeden).
at least he doesn't have much of an IR history
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You guys mean all those Packers backups that would have started for the Bears?
So? For a couple of decades there, pretty much EVERY team's backups would have started for the Bears. And a lot of them did!
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So? For a couple of decades there, pretty much EVERY team's backups would have started for the Bears. And a lot of them did!
Word.
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osweiler is cut. let's see if those brownies doin the knee thing will see kaep with an orange jersey now enn'a?
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Packers just cut Callahan reportedly with an invite to the PS. Some are speculating that means Hill to the 53 as they likely wouldn't invite two to 'walk on'. If all true, expect Callahan to walk. Why be #4?
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Annnnnnd, there goes that theory. Packers just cut Hill.
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Yeah they have been carrying two QBs pretty regularly the last couple of years.
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one more time-this was your quote-"people"? if you're going to criticize someone for "reading comprehension", it's best you make yourself a little more clear. how about a little heads up on who you're referring to as "people". welcome to my world. this is how i get scrutinized
kaepernick's protest really isn't a problem, it's HIS problem. he's got to deal with the consequences. whether or not they are right, wrong, fair or unfair. life ain't fair eyn'a so?
the rest of your comments re: ray rice, josh brown and the long list of others who were never really punished (as far as we know), i cannot disagree with you
CBS Sports Chairman confirmed this week that the protests did impact ratings, which is not a surprise to many. It wasn't the factor, but absolutely one of the factors along with the election. CBS did their own study that confirmed this. Other studies have done the same.
http://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/2017/09/cbs_sports_exec_national_anthem_protests_hurt_nfl.html
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well well well-the colin kaep non-signing sure has quieted down. it couldn't have anything to do with the colin's girl firing off a racist tweet err anything? colin's girl, nessa diab ain't too good for his, ahem, football career. didn't she take over as his agent, seriously?
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20597810/ray-lewis-said-baltimore-ravens-sign-colin-kaepernick-girlfriend-racist-tweet
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well well well-the colin kaep non-signing sure has quieted down. it couldn't have anything to do with the colin's girl firing off a racist tweet err anything? colin's girl, nessa diab ain't too good for his, ahem, football career. didn't she take over as his agent, seriously?
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20597810/ray-lewis-said-baltimore-ravens-sign-colin-kaepernick-girlfriend-racist-tweet
Cmon now......really? Why should Kaep be punished for his girlfriends tweet? That makes zero bloody sense. Kaep should be on a NFL team, point blank period. Trevor Siemien, Brian Hoyer, Josh McCown and Tom Savage are all NFL starters this year.
He is being blackballed, don't try to bring another flimsy argument into the equation.
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Cmon now......really? Why should Kaep be punished for his girlfriends tweet? That makes zero bloody sense. Kaep should be on a NFL team, point blank period. Trevor Siemien, Brian Hoyer, Josh McCown and Tom Savage are all NFL starters this year.
He is being blackballed, don't try to bring another flimsy argument into the equation.
He is absolutely not being blackballed. The reason he's not in the league is pretty simple.
He's a back-up/fringe starter, which means he's good enough to be on an NFL roster. However, he brings with him controversy, baggage and excess media attention and no team wants to deal with those issues coming from a back-up/fringe starter. If any of those bad QBs you mentioned brought with them the kind of sideshow that comes along with Kaepernick, they'd be looking for a job as well.
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He is absolutely not being blackballed. The reason he's not in the league is pretty simple.
He's a back-up/fringe starter, which means he's good enough to be on an NFL roster. However, he brings with him controversy, baggage and excess media attention and no team wants to deal with those issues coming from a back-up/fringe starter. If any of those bad QBs you mentioned brought with them the kind of sideshow that comes along with Kaepernick, they'd be looking for a job as well.
He's being blackballed...at least partially. Yeah if he were Aaron Rodgers he would have been signed.
But the Panthers signing Joe Webb is all you need to know.
And Kaep's girlfriend's tweet is spot on. Seriously how the Ravens can continue to trot out a guy who was an accessory to murder to be their moral spokesman on this issue is hilarious.
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Cmon now......really? Why should Kaep be punished for his girlfriends tweet? That makes zero bloody sense. Kaep should be on a NFL team, point blank period. Trevor Siemien, Brian Hoyer, Josh McCown and Tom Savage are all NFL starters this year.
He is being blackballed, don't try to bring another flimsy argument into the equation.
Chitown, no team wants anywhere near that much drama for their backup QB. Do you really think your hated Green Bay Packers would even take his call? Ever? Here's one thing to know in the real world. Nobody is owed a job and most often there's not much difference between 2 final candidates with 'fit' often being the determining factor. Occasionally that's not legitimate when someone won't hire a qualified woman or minority, for example, and those cases need to be called out. But for the most case, a sense of 'fit' is just fine. And Kap most certainly doesn't 'fit'. One can call that blackballing if they want but he isn't owed a damn thing.
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I'm shocked how many people are okay with workplace discrimination. The only reason Kap is unemployed is because he exercised a Constitutional right. If he's so offensive, why are the dozens of other players following his lead not also unemployed? He is being discriminated against because he was the first.
Personally, I'm appalled by the police and fire in Cleveland that are effectively protesting the Browns' players' stance. So now we protest people exercising their rights? Do they actively WANT to get rid of the Constitution? That's a slap in the face of pretty much every American ever, but they're so wrapped up in star spangled blindfolds that they don't see what their protest represents.
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I'm shocked how many people are okay with workplace discrimination. The only reason Kap is unemployed is because he exercised a Constitutional right. If he's so offensive, why are the dozens of other players following his lead not also unemployed? He is being discriminated against because he was the first.
Personally, I'm appalled by the police and fire in Cleveland that are effectively protesting the Browns' players' stance. So now we protest people exercising their rights? Do they actively WANT to get rid of the Constitution? That's a slap in the face of pretty much every American ever, but they're so wrapped up in star spangled blindfolds that they don't see what their protest represents.
Brew, last time I looked being a lightning rod and super controversial isn't a protected class.
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I'm shocked how many people are okay with workplace discrimination. The only reason Kap is unemployed is because he exercised a Constitutional right. If he's so offensive, why are the dozens of other players following his lead not also unemployed? He is being discriminated against because he was the first.
Personally, I'm appalled by the police and fire in Cleveland that are effectively protesting the Browns' players' stance. So now we protest people exercising their rights? Do they actively WANT to get rid of the Constitution? That's a slap in the face of pretty much every American ever, but they're so wrapped up in star spangled blindfolds that they don't see what their protest represents.
You just argued against yourself. Twice. Kaepernik doesn't have a job because he kneels for the National Anthem...but hundreds of players who kneel for the National Anthem have jobs. Kaepernik isn't a good football player. If he was he'd be employed. Just like those hundreds who do exactly what Kaepernik is "blackballed" for and somehow aren't also "blackballed."
And like the Browns can choose to protest what they want and how they want to, so to can the Cleveland policemen and firefighters. They too have the same constitutional right those Browns players do.
Brew, last time I looked being a lightning rod and super controversial isn't a protected class.
Yup. Employers can choose to hire or not hire people for all different reasons. I can absolutely get fired for using my voice and exercising my First Amendment rights if I use them in a way my employer does not see appropriate. Actions have consequences, even when you have a Constitution.
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Chitown, no team wants anywhere near that much drama for their backup QB. Do you really think your hated Green Bay Packers would even take his call? Ever? Here's one thing to know in the real world. Nobody is owed a job and most often there's not much difference between 2 final candidates with 'fit' often being the determining factor. Occasionally that's not legitimate when someone won't hire a qualified woman or minority, for example, and those cases need to be called out. But for the most case, a sense of 'fit' is just fine. And Kap most certainly doesn't 'fit'. One can call that blackballing if they want but he isn't owed a damn thing.
Oh please.
There have been much more controversial figures than Colin Kaepernick. We've had repeat violent offenders on football teams, people who have killed others while drunk driving, etc. But this is what gets someone blackballed? Stop excusing bad behavior.
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I'm shocked how many people are okay with workplace discrimination. The only reason Kap is unemployed is because he exercised a Constitutional right. If he's so offensive, why are the dozens of other players following his lead not also unemployed? He is being discriminated against because he was the first.
Personally, I'm appalled by the police and fire in Cleveland that are effectively protesting the Browns' players' stance. So now we protest people exercising their rights? Do they actively WANT to get rid of the Constitution? That's a slap in the face of pretty much every American ever, but they're so wrapped up in star spangled blindfolds that they don't see what their protest represents.
Wrong! Kaepernick is unemployed because he's the only player who brings with him the controversy and media attention from the protest. It's not workplace discrimination to say "We don't want to deal with the baggage that comes with a non-vital employee."
So it's OK for one group to protest against something they feel strongly about but it's not OK for another group to feel disrespected by that protest? Do we all have to agree with every protest?
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Oh please.
There have been much more controversial figures than Colin Kaepernick. We've had repeat violent offenders on football teams, people who have killed others while drunk driving, etc. But this is what gets someone blackballed? Stop excusing bad behavior.
How many of those players bring with them the type of extra attention that would come with signing Kaepernick? How many of those players are important members of the team?
Like I said before, Kap has enough talent to be on an NFL roster but he's a back-up player who's not worth all the extras that come along with him. Fair or unfair, that's the deal.
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Wrong! Kaepernick is unemployed because he's the only player who brings with him the controversy and media attention from the protest. It's not workplace discrimination to say "We don't want to deal with the baggage that comes with a non-vital employee."
So it's OK for one group to protest against something they feel strongly about but it's not OK for another group to feel disrespected by that protest? Do we all have to agree with every protest?
Black guy sits for the national anthem = CONTROVERSY!!!!! But killers, violent offenders and drug users are OK as long as they tow the line.
Very sad. And its even more sad when people excuse the behavior.
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I'm shocked how many people are okay with workplace discrimination. The only reason Kap is unemployed is because he exercised a Constitutional right. If he's so offensive, why are the dozens of other players following his lead not also unemployed? He is being discriminated against because he was the first.
So why is Michael Bennett still in the league as well as at least a hundred other players who have protested during the national anthem? Kap is unemployed for multiple reasons (talent, sideshow effect, his protest, etc). So what if he was first, his being "kept out of the league" hasn't seemingly slowed anything down from a protest standpoint.
Personally, I'm appalled by the police and fire in Cleveland that are effectively protesting the Browns' players' stance. So now we protest people exercising their rights? Do they actively WANT to get rid of the Constitution? That's a slap in the face of pretty much every American ever, but they're so wrapped up in star spangled blindfolds that they don't see what their protest represents.
Got it, so you are appalled when one group protests something (exercising their rights) but are a staunch advocate when another group protests something (exercising their rights). You can disagree with the police all you want (you exercising your right), but they are exercising their rights just as much as the NFL players are. Should the peaceful counter-protestors against Trump protestors not be allowed to counter-protest because they are trying to stop someone's rights by not letting them be heard?
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well well well-the colin kaep non-signing sure has quieted down. it couldn't have anything to do with the colin's girl firing off a racist tweet err anything? colin's girl, nessa diab ain't too good for his, ahem, football career. didn't she take over as his agent, seriously?
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20597810/ray-lewis-said-baltimore-ravens-sign-colin-kaepernick-girlfriend-racist-tweet
I'm sorry but if the Baltimore Ravens organization is so thin skinned that a tweet by a celebrity (which isn't that far off in terms of accuracy) offends an accessory to murder and that means the Ravens can't sign a player that will help them.....they are a horrible organization and deserve to never win another game.
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Oh please.
There have been much more controversial figures than Colin Kaepernick. We've had repeat violent offenders on football teams, people who have killed others while drunk driving, etc. But this is what gets someone blackballed? Stop excusing bad behavior.
Sometimes I wonder if there's anything we agree on. Oh wait! We agreed on MU's admissions methodology. So that's ONE! ;D
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Black guy sits for the national anthem = CONTROVERSY!!!!! But killers, violent offenders and drug users are OK as long as they tow the line.
Very sad. And its even more sad when people excuse the behavior.
How many of those "killers, violent offenders and drug users" are back-up QBs? How many are guys who barely see the field?
If a controversial player can push a team closer to winning a Super Bowl, he'll find a team. If a guy is a controversial bit player, he's likely going to be unemployed. Is that fair, moral and ethical? No, but that's the way the NFL works...as do most businesses.
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How many of those "killers, violent offenders and drug users" are back-up QBs? How many are guys who barely see the field?
If a controversial player can push a team closer to winning a Super Bowl, he'll find a team. If a guy is a controversial bit player, he's likely going to be unemployed. Is that fair, moral and ethical? No, but that's the way the NFL works...as do most businesses.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/05_04/035ostrich_468x538.jpg)
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(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/05_04/035ostrich_468x538.jpg)
Even with all the condescension, you didn't answer the question.
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Even with all the condescension, you didn't answer the question.
Define barely see the field and I'll see if I can come with a metric of the number of players with semi-serious to serious legal issues who meet that standard.
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Even with all the condescension, you didn't answer the question.
I've answered it. I think your excuse is crap. There have been violent offenders who have been back ups and role players.
Keep excusing bad behavior.
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I've answered it. I think your excuse is crap. There have been violent offenders who have been back ups and role players.
Keep excusing bad behavior.
Do they bring distraction and controversy and excess media attention?
The media has as much to do with Kap's unemployment as anything.
You earlier said that Kap was "partially" being blackballed. Why only him? Why not more talented players who have taken a similar stance?
It's simple: Right or wrong, the distraction that comes along with Colin Kaepernick outweighs his value.
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Do they bring distraction and controversy and excess media attention?
The media has as much to do with Kap's unemployment as anything.
Joe Mixon anyone?
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Do they bring distraction and controversy and excess media attention?
The media has as much to do with Kap's unemployment as anything.
YES!!! LET'S BLAME THE MEDIA!!!!
But by all means, let's not blame the owners and a fanbase that excuses their behavior because they might be a "distraction."
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YES!!! LET'S BLAME THE MEDIA!!!!
But by all means, let's not blame the owners and a fanbase that excuses their behavior because they might be a "distraction."
You don't think the media circus around Kaepernick has anything to do with him being unemployed?
(http://conversationsofchange.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/head_in_the_sand-461x307.jpg)
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Oh I definitely think it's a convenient excuse for owners to use and for people to rationalize.
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How many of those "killers, violent offenders and drug users" are back-up QBs? How many are guys who barely see the field?
If a controversial player can push a team closer to winning a Super Bowl, he'll find a team. If a guy is a controversial bit player, he's likely going to be unemployed. Is that fair, moral and ethical? No, but that's the way the NFL works...as do most businesses.
There are plenty of bad characters filling backup roles on NFL rosters.
They may not be controversial because the large and influential meathead element of NFL fandom are more accepting of a guy who beats up his girlfriend, uses PEDs or drives drunk than they are of a guy they believe disrespects 'Merica.
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I'm shocked how many people are okay with workplace discrimination. The only reason Kap is unemployed is because he exercised a Constitutional right. If he's so offensive, why are the dozens of other players following his lead not also unemployed? He is being discriminated against because he was the first.
Wrong.
He used the forum of his employer to espouse political beliefs generally inconsistent with his employer.
If I did that at my employer, I too probably would be unemployed. No employer takes kindly to an employee risking the brand's value. And speaking up at a job function in a way inconsistent with a company's visions or expectations is one of the fastest ways I know to get severance.
If the NFL thought other kneel-downs threatened the brand, they'd be off the rosters too. But they're Cleveland Browns, forgodssakes. Call me when they win more games than the Bears and start to become relevant.
Nobody is arguing that Mr. Kapernick has the right to say anything he wants. But there are consequences of free speech and for all you leftists out there, the First Amendment to the Constitution does not guarantee that an employer cannot restrict your speech -- unless your employer is the Federal Government.
I doubt anyone in the NFL is openly racist. The League is too diverse. And, it pays well to all who play in the League. Rather, I agree with the commenters who argue that Mr. Kapernick just brings too much baggage.
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I doubt anyone in the NFL is openly racist. The League is too diverse. And, it pays well to all who play in the League. Rather, I agree with the commenters who argue that Mr. Kapernick just brings too much baggage.
Overtly racist? No. But them NFL owners generally like them well behaved blacks versus them ornery ones.
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Overtly racist? No. But them NFL owners generally like them well behaved blacks versus them ornery ones.
Wait, I thought they prefer to employ "killers, violent offenders and drug users"...
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As long as they don't take political stands, then yes.
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Overtly racist? No. But them NFL owners generally like them well behaved blacks versus them ornery ones.
I imagine this goes for the help in general.
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Wait, I thought they prefer to employ "killers, violent offenders and drug users"...
They're ornery behind doors. That doesn't piss off the snowflakes in their #MAGA fanbase.
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It will be interesting to see if Michael Bennett takes a knee during the national anthem before Seahawks' games.
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I'm sorry but if the Baltimore Ravens organization is so thin skinned that a tweet by a celebrity (which isn't that far off in terms of accuracy) offends an accessory to murder and that means the Ravens can't sign a player that will help them.....they are a horrible organization and deserve to never win another game.
the involvement of ray lewis here is disturbing to say the least.
kap's girlfriend is either dumb like a fox or smart like a bowling ball. she is using kap to further her inner "angela davis" and fan the flames. without the controversy, she may have to return to her day job. if she doesn't send out that racist tweet, her boy friend may have a sunday afternoon job and spike lee can go back to his front row seats at the knicks games
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the involvement of ray lewis here is disturbing to say the least.
kap's girlfriend is either dumb like a fox or smart like a bowling ball. she is using kap to further her inner "angela davis" and fan the flames. without the controversy, she may have to return to her day job. if she doesn't send out that racist tweet, her boy friend may have a sunday afternoon job and spike lee can go back to his front row seats at the knicks games
I mean seriously. This tripe is exactly the bullsh*t that I'm talking about.
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I mean seriously. This tripe is exactly the bullsh*t that I'm talking about.
i sense this isn't a very safe place for you sully-take a deep breath man. oh yeah-seriously-there are a few out here who believe differently from you ;)
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Nevermind rocket.
I guess I shouldn't expect much.
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the involvement of ray lewis here is disturbing to say the least.
kap's girlfriend is either dumb like a fox or smart like a bowling ball. she is using kap to further her inner "angela davis" and fan the flames. without the controversy, she may have to return to her day job. if she doesn't send out that racist tweet, her boy friend may have a sunday afternoon job and spike lee can go back to his front row seats at the knicks games
You do know that she was a "celebrity" prior to meeting Kaepernick right?
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Overtly racist? No. But them NFL owners generally like them well behaved blacks versus them ornery ones.
To go with their well-behaved whites, Hispanics, Samoans and others who "protect the shield."
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the involvement of ray lewis here is disturbing to say the least.
kap's girlfriend is either dumb like a fox or smart like a bowling ball. she is using kap to further her inner "angela davis" and fan the flames. without the controversy, she may have to return to her day job. if she doesn't send out that racist tweet, her boy friend may have a sunday afternoon job and spike lee can go back to his front row seats at the knicks games
This is a bad, bad take.
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It will be interesting to see if Michael Bennett takes a knee during the national anthem before Seahawks' games.
He was already protesting and planned to protest all season before the incident with police.
(https://twitter.com/DennisTFP/status/896886627099828224/photo/1)
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You do know that she was a "celebrity" prior to meeting Kaepernick right?
ok ok then, smart like a bowling ball she must be tight with whoooooopi, cher, sammy jackson and the the rest of the rest of those braniacs then, ey....n'a?
i'm hoping some here caught my half tongue in cheek, but regardless, you know which ones struggle with this particularly, right? that's when ya know there is some truth to it :o
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I'm curious what football fans will do when these protests spread throughout the NFL (as I think they will) rather than the current isolated cases that are easier to ignore. Stop watching games entirely? Will be an interesting season...
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I'm curious what football fans will do when these protests spread throughout the NFL (as I think they will) rather than the current isolated cases that are easier to ignore. Stop watching games entirely? Will be an interesting season...
CBS study I linked the other day says exactly that, some fans have turned off the NFL, despite claims here and elsewhere that they haven't. That was the conclusion of CBS sports chairman Sean McManus on their proprietary study.
Yes, fans will turn off the games. The question is to what degree and how deep. The NFL will then likely stop having the national anthem televised, meaning they will play it while the players are in the locker room.
Many more people on Jim Brown's side of this argument than the current protesters, according to every poll out there.
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Yes, fans will turn off the games. The question is to what degree and how deep.
I found a picture of those fans:
(http://i.stack.imgur.com/orvwj.gif)
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So, uhh, football starts today...
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NFC North: Green Bay
NFC East: NY Giants
NFC South: Atlanta
NFC West: Seattle
NFC Wild Card 1: Arizona
NFC Wild Card 2: Tampa Bay
NFC Champ: Seattle
AFC North: Pittsburgh
AFC East: New England
AFC South: Tennessee
AFC West: Oakland
AFC Wild Card 1: Kansas City
AFC Wild Card 2: Miami
AFC Champ: Pittsburgh
Super Bowl Champion: Pittsburgh Steelers
Bears 6-10 with Trubisky starting the final 5 games.
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NFC North: Packers
NFC East: Eagles
NFC South: Bucs
NFC West: Seahawks
NFC Wild Card 1: Falcons
NFC Wild Card 2: Giants
NFC Champ: Seahawks
AFC North: Steelers
AFC East: Pats
AFC South: Texans
AFC West: Chargers
AFC Wild Card 1: Chiefs
AFC Wild Card 2: Raiders
AFC Champ: Pats
Super Bowl Champion: Seahawks
Trubisky starts Week 5 against the Vikings. And, I think the Jets go 0-16.
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CBS study I linked the other day says exactly that, some fans have turned off the NFL, despite claims here and elsewhere that they haven't. That was the conclusion of CBS sports chairman Sean McManus on their proprietary study.
Yes, fans will turn off the games. The question is to what degree and how deep. The NFL will then likely stop having the national anthem televised, meaning they will play it while the players are in the locker room.
Many more people on Jim Brown's side of this argument than the current protesters, according to every poll out there.
The anthem is rarely televised as it is.
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NFC North: Packers
NFC East: Cowboys
NFC South: Falcons
NFC West: Seahawks
NFC Wild Card 1: Giants
NFC Wild Card 2: Buccaneers
NFC Champ: Falcons
AFC North: Steelers
AFC East: Patriots
AFC South: Titans
AFC West: Raiders
AFC Wild Card 1: Chiefs
AFC Wild Card 2: Colts
AFC Champ: Steelers
Super Bowl Champion: Falcons
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NFC North: Packers
NFC East: Eagles
NFC South: Bucs
NFC West: Seahawks
NFC Wild Card 1: Falcons
NFC Wild Card 2: Giants
NFC Champ: Seahawks
AFC North: Steelers
AFC East: Pats
AFC South: Texans
AFC West: Chargers
AFC Wild Card 1: Chiefs
AFC Wild Card 2: Raiders
AFC Champ: Pats
Super Bowl Champion: Seahawks
Trubisky starts Week 5 against the Vikings. And, I think the Jets go 0-16.
I see someone clearly doesn't believe offensive line play matters.
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NFC North: Packers
NFC East: Giants
NFC South: Falcons
NFC West: Seahawks
NFC Wild Card 1: Cowboys
NFC Wild Card 2: Cardinals
NFC Champ: Packers
AFC North: Steelers
AFC East: Patriots
AFC South: Titans
AFC West: Raiders
AFC Wild Card 1: Bengals
AFC Wild Card 2: Chiefs
AFC Champ: Patriots
Super Bowl Champion: Patriots
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I see someone clearly doesn't believe offensive line play matters.
I like the Seahawks defense, a lot. Perhaps, I'm overrating the Richardson move. But, he could be a real difference maker and move that defense back in the elite category. Enough to overcome their bad o-line. But, yes, that's Seattle's Achilles Heel.
On the others, I think the Chargers o-line will hold up. New offensive system, less pressure on Rivers to make plays. And, I think their defense will be one of the better units in the league. On the Giants, yeah, they could fall apart. But, I see major flaws for most of the teams battling for that 2nd NFC wildcard spot.
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Yes, fans will turn off the games. The question is to what degree and how deep. The NFL will then likely stop having the national anthem televised, meaning they will play it while the players are in the locker room.
Huh.... Why would the players be in the locker room? They come out of the tunnel for introductions and then the anthem is played. It was almost never televised, except in Super Bowl, before, and players were already on the field.
But, why is it played at all? In Europe, before sporting events, countries don't play their anthem. It's not played before a movie or concert. It's not played before all these patriotic town halls that politicians run or even in city hall meetings. Why is it even played before a GAME?
We get enough propaganda from politicians. Do we need it at sporting events? Is singing the words "land of the free" going to make some people actually believe it?
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NFC North: Packers
NFC East: Giants
NFC South: Panthers
NFC West: Seahawks
NFC Wild Card 1: Cardinals
NFC Wild Card 2: Bucs
NFC Champ: Packers
AFC North: Steelers
AFC East: Patriots
AFC South: Titans
AFC West: Raiders
AFC Wild Card 1: Chiefs
AFC Wild Card 2: Dolphins
AFC Champ: Steelers
Super Bowl Champion: Packers
-
NFC North: Packers
NFC East: Giants
NFC South: Saints
NFC West: Seahawks
NFC Wild Card 1: Lions
NFC Wild Card 2: Cowboys
NFC Champ: Seahawks
AFC North: Ravens
AFC East: Patriots
AFC South: Jaguars
AFC West: Chiefs
AFC Wild Card 1: Raiders
AFC Wild Card 2: Steelers
AFC Champ: Patriots
Super Bowl Champion: Patriots
-
NFC North: Packers
NFC East: Giants
NFC South: Saints
NFC West: Seahawks
NFC Wild Card 1: Lions
NFC Wild Card 2: Cowboys
NFC Champ: Seahawks
AFC North: Ravens
AFC East: Patriots
AFC South: Jaguars
AFC West: Chiefs
AFC Wild Card 1: Raiders
AFC Wild Card 2: Steelers
AFC Champ: Patriots
Super Bowl Champion: Patriots
Don't do that.
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Don't do that.
This made me laugh out loud.
Thought being, their qb situation is no worse than Hou or Ind (certainly seems like they're hiding a lot of smoke on Luck). They're probably a better team than Indy without Luck, and Hou is another Watt injury away from being just another team. That leaves Ten, and hell, maybe they regress or Mariota doesn't make the jump. Idk, low risk upset pick since there's little chance a team in this division gets passed the second place team in the North or West anyway. But I agree, I'm not rushing to the Westgate counter with that one.
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Packers
Eagles
Bucs
Cardinals
Washington football club
Seahawks
Steelers
Pats
Titans
Chiefs
Chargers
Raiders
Pats/Packers
Pats
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NFC North: Packers
NFC South: Falcons
NFC East: Cowboys
NFC West: Seaturds
AFC East: New England
AFC South: Titans
AFC West: raiders
AFC North: Pittsburgh
NFC Wildcards: Vikings, Giants
AFC Wild Cards: Dolphins, Chiefs
AFC Champs: New England
NFC Champs: Green Bay
Super Bowl Champs: Green Bay
Bears: 2-14, first win against 49ers on December 3; other win against Browns on Christmas Eve
November 13: Day John Fox is fired and interim coach named. Ryan Pace also fired by Thanksgiving
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NFC
North: Packers
South: Falcons
East: Cowboys
West: Seahawks
WC: Panthers and who knows
AFC
North: Steelers
South: Titans
East: Patriots
West: Raiders
WC: Chiefs and Bengals
Bears go 5-11 or 6-10, defense is much improved but zero capable wide receivers paired with Glennon or a rookie Trubisky ends in disaster, and no, Kevin White is not a capable wide receiver.
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Huh.... Why would the players be in the locker room? They come out of the tunnel for introductions and then the anthem is played. It was almost never televised, except in Super Bowl, before, and players were already on the field.
But, why is it played at all? In Europe, before sporting events, countries don't play their anthem. It's not played before a movie or concert. It's not played before all these patriotic town halls that politicians run or even in city hall meetings. Why is it even played before a GAME?
We get enough propaganda from politicians. Do we need it at sporting events? Is singing the words "land of the free" going to make some people actually believe it?
holy cow! now this is tripe-ish and a bad take as well-ayyy'na? cuz a team won't sign a mediocre, controversial back-up, we aren't free? ay ay comrade
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Has there ever been a more lopsided division than this year's AFC East? Arguably the best team in football paired with 3 of the six worst.... Including the absolute worst.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots score more points in one game than the rest of their conference scores against them in the entire season.
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Has there ever been a more lopsided division than this year's AFC East? Arguably the best team in football paired with 3 of the six worst.... Including the absolute worst.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots score more points in one game than the rest of their conference scores against them in the entire season.
The Dolphins are returning most of their key players from a team that went 10-6 and made the playoffs last year. I know there aren't many Cutler fans around here, but he's not a downgrade from Ryan Tannehill. They may not make the playoffs again, but they're not one of the six worst teams in the league either.
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The Dolphins are returning most of their key players from a team that went 10-6 and made the playoffs last year. I know there aren't many Cutler fans around here, but he's not a downgrade from Ryan Tannehill. They may not make the playoffs again, but they're not one of the six worst teams in the league either.
Agree. Dolphins might not make the playoffs, but they are not one of the worst teams in football. And that would be case no matter if their QB was Tannehill, Cutler or even Matt Moore.
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I heard a fair assessment today. There are 3-4 teams that are good enough to win 12 games. There are 3-4 teams that are bad enough that you they will probably only win 4 games. Almost everybody else is in the middle. If they stay healthy and get a few bounces at the right time, they can win 10 games. If they lose 1-2 of the wrong players and have a couple of breaks/bounces/calls go against them, they will win 6 games.
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The Dolphins are returning most of their key players from a team that went 10-6 and made the playoffs last year. I know there aren't many Cutler fans around here, but he's not a downgrade from Ryan Tannehill. They may not make the playoffs again, but they're not one of the six worst teams in the league either.
ESPN thinks so:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/NFLpowerrankingsx170815/2017-preseason-nfl-power-rankings-new-england-patriots-atlanta-falcons-seattle-seahawks-front
Sorry, worst 7.
And I might have my maroon glasses on but I think Cutler is a downgrade from Tannehill.
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ESPN thinks so:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/NFLpowerrankingsx170815/2017-preseason-nfl-power-rankings-new-england-patriots-atlanta-falcons-seattle-seahawks-front
Sorry, worst 7.
And I might have my maroon glasses on but I think Cutler is a downgrade from Tannehill.
You're really gonna listen to ESPNs power ranking after all the garbage recruiting rankings they throw out?
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Will be interesting to see the line on the Super Bowl game with Minnesota having a pseudo home game. Looking forward to February! #SKOL #ShieldTheNorth
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Has there ever been a more lopsided division than this year's AFC East? Arguably the best team in football paired with 3 of the six worst.... Including the absolute worst.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots score more points in one game than the rest of their conference scores against them in the entire season.
Last year's AFC East?
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This made me laugh out loud.
Thought being, their qb situation is no worse than Hou or Ind (certainly seems like they're hiding a lot of smoke on Luck). They're probably a better team than Indy without Luck, and Hou is another Watt injury away from being just another team. That leaves Ten, and hell, maybe they regress or Mariota doesn't make the jump. Idk, low risk upset pick since there's little chance a team in this division gets passed the second place team in the North or West anyway. But I agree, I'm not rushing to the Westgate counter with that one.
Yes it is.
I think the only way the Titans don't win the division is if Mariota loses one of his knees. Don't think a "jump" is required.
I know Andrew Luck's old GM did him no favors in subjecting him to the David Carr experience, but can the NFL stop talking like he's a transcendent superstar? Maybe he'll figure it out, but he's borderline top 10
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So what's the Over/Under on the Bears? 3, 4 or five wins?
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So what's the Over/Under on the Bears? 3, 4 or five wins?
Bears defense is going to be pretty good. By no means do I think the Bears will be good overall, but they will be better than people think.
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Bears defense is going to be pretty good. By no means do I think the Bears will be good overall, but they will be better than people think.
How many wins, boi???
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Bears defense is going to be pretty good. By no means do I think the Bears will be good overall, but they will be better than people think.
The secondary is porous. Any quarterback who can stay upright for two seconds will pick it apart.
How many wins bro?
I'm guessing 2 or 3, if they're lucky and I am a Bear season ticket holder. This team stinks, period. They'll fight with the Browns and 49ers for the first draft choice.
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Pats d looks awful.
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The secondary is porous. Any quarterback who can stay upright for two seconds will pick it apart.
How many wins bro?
I'm guessing 2 or 3, if they're lucky and I am a Bear season ticket holder. This team stinks, period. They'll fight with the Browns and 49ers for the first draft choice.
This is a 5-6 win team.
I'll bet $1 million the Jets have the first pick.
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Pats d looks awful.
That may be an understatement.
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Well that was unexpected.
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I think John Dorsey was screwed over by Andy Reid and the Chiefs, and would be the most logical choice to succeed Ted Thompson.
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I think John Dorsey was screwed over by Andy Reid and the Chiefs, and would be the most logical choice to succeed Ted Thompson.
That's going to be interesting to watch. Do they go with someone who has GM experience or promote Wolf from within.
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https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/9/8/16272940/2017-nfl-picks-week-1-gambling-roger-goodell (https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/9/8/16272940/2017-nfl-picks-week-1-gambling-roger-goodell)
I agree with 97% of the content in this column. I'm as big a fan as there could have been with football, and I'm starting to feel that fandom slip.
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The secondary is porous. Any quarterback who can stay upright for two seconds will pick it apart.
How many wins bro?
I'm guessing 2 or 3, if they're lucky and I am a Bear season ticket holder. This team stinks, period. They'll fight with the Browns and 49ers for the first draft choice.
Nah - I think the Bears win 5 games. If healthy, the front 7 is the real deal and will lessen the pressure on the secondary. The secondary also is better than last year (hard to be much worse). Plus the schedule eases up significantly later in the year. The loss of Meredith is huge for an already underwhelming passing game.
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https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/9/8/16272940/2017-nfl-picks-week-1-gambling-roger-goodell (https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/9/8/16272940/2017-nfl-picks-week-1-gambling-roger-goodell)
I agree with 97% of the content in this column. I'm as big a fan as there could have been with football, and I'm starting to feel that fandom slip.
This is really good. Last year I felt the same "oh well" feelings at the beginning, but by the time the season got into gear, I was into it. That Packer / Dallas playoff game was one of my all time favorites. It was great!
But this hit on a lot of the reasons why I am not as big a fan of the overall game that I used to be. I just don't like the way the NFL conducts business. I feel like all they care about is the short-term money gain - at the expense of the quality of the game.
But I will be watching Sunday at 3:30. And probably have the Sunday night game on as well.
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Will be interesting to see the line on the Super Bowl game with Minnesota having a pseudo home game. Looking forward to February! #SKOL #ShieldTheNorth
No team hosting the SB has ever been in it, you really think MN can
A) be the 1st host to ever appear?
B) finally win a SB?
Good luck Mr. Delusional
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You are correct that no team has been in a Super Bowl in their home stadium. But...
Super Bowl XIV: Rams lost to Steelers in Pasadena
Super Bowl XIX: 49ers defeated Dolphins at Stanford Stadium
Those kinda count don't they?
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This is a 5-6 win team.
I'll bet $1 million the Jets have the first pick.
Bold - the Jets blow obviously, but if another awful team (Browns, Niners, etc.) gets decimated by injury and the Jets just accidentally stay healthy, they could win a game or 2 more. Or are you saying in the event that happens, they'd trade up no matter what?
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Bold - the Jets blow obviously, but if another awful team (Browns, Niners, etc.) gets decimated by injury and the Jets just accidentally stay healthy, they could win a game or 2 more. Or are you saying in the event that happens, they'd trade up no matter what?
The Jets have one of the worst rosters I've ever seen. They are as close to openly trying to tank as any team I can remember.
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The Jets have one of the worst rosters I've ever seen. They are as close to openly trying to tank as any team I can remember.
They suck, no question, but other teams suck too. And with injuries/flukes playing such a big role in the NFL, I just wouldn't bet $1 million on it! They could get 2 wins on accident.
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You are correct that no team has been in a Super Bowl in their home stadium. But...
Super Bowl XIV: Rams lost to Steelers in Pasadena
Super Bowl XIX: 49ers defeated Dolphins at Stanford Stadium
Those kinda count don't they?
Kinda, being 0-4 the Vikings need all the help they can get but history is not in their favor in the last 50+ years. ;D
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https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/9/8/16272940/2017-nfl-picks-week-1-gambling-roger-goodell (https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/9/8/16272940/2017-nfl-picks-week-1-gambling-roger-goodell)
I agree with 97% of the content in this column. I'm as big a fan as there could have been with football, and I'm starting to feel that fandom slip.
Ironically, I remember the anticipation of Bill Simmons' articles before he tried to branch out into other media forms and started mailing it in on his now-even-more-rambly columns.
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Kinda, being 0-4 the Vikings need all the help they can get but history is not in their favor in the last 50+ years. ;D
I have to think the Vikings fans would enjoy the chance to even get a lead in a Super Bowl. 5th times a charm.
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ESPN thinks so:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/NFLpowerrankingsx170815/2017-preseason-nfl-power-rankings-new-england-patriots-atlanta-falcons-seattle-seahawks-front
Sorry, worst 7.
And I might have my maroon glasses on but I think Cutler is a downgrade from Tannehill.
So, it appears ESPN dropped the Dolphins 12 spots on the basis of Cutler (career QB rating of 85.7, 68-71 record) replacing Tannehill (career QB rating of 86.5, 37-40 record).
That sure is ..... something.
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So, it appears ESPN dropped the Dolphins 12 spots on the basis of Cutler (career QB rating of 85.7, 68-71 record) replacing Tannehill (career QB rating of 86.5, 37-40 record).
That sure is ..... something.
that's weird-they use statistics which are virtually the same, but figure in what? slop room? it's kinda like using math to come up with a random conclusion.
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It will be interesting to see if Michael Bennett takes a knee during the national anthem before Seahawks' games.
he better be careful what he wishes for-the video may show evidence contrary to his allegations. common procedure when cops come in to investigate a shooting is to order everyone down so they may access the situation and to keep everyone safe. michael bennet did not heed their orders, hid behind a gaming machine, then tried to run.
michael bennett has a big big responsibility here and that is, to tell the truth. he could be indirectly responsible for more police to be put in to harms way while they are trying to keep others safe.
i hope martellis stays neutral, unless he scores 35 points for me on my fantasy team this sunday :P
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The video would have been very easy to assess had the body cam been on a ina?
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The video would have been very easy to assess had the body cam been on a ina?
vegas has video cameras just about everywhere-outside, inside, the chitters, the bedrooms
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So, it appears ESPN dropped the Dolphins 12 spots on the basis of Cutler (career QB rating of 85.7, 68-71 record) replacing Tannehill (career QB rating of 86.5, 37-40 record).
That sure is ..... something.
Yeah, but he doesn't do mediocrity with the right attitude, you know?
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he better be careful what he wishes for-the video may show evidence contrary to his allegations. common procedure when cops come in to investigate a shooting is to order everyone down so they may access the situation and to keep everyone safe. michael bennet did not heed their orders, hid behind a gaming machine, then tried to run.
michael bennett has a big big responsibility here and that is, to tell the truth. he could be indirectly responsible for more police to be put in to harms way while they are trying to keep others safe.
i hope martellis stays neutral, unless he scores 35 points for me on my fantasy team this sunday :P
Interesting that you stress how Michael Bennett has a BIG BIG responsibility to tell the truth, yet don't demand the same of the police officer, who've already thrown their credibility into question by conveniently "forgetting" to turn on their body cams during the encounter.
What's less interesting, and certainly not surprising, is that you take the police union's account of these events as Gospel.
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Interesting that you stress how Michael Bennett has a BIG BIG responsibility to tell the truth, yet don't demand the same of the police officer, who've already thrown their credibility into question by conveniently "forgetting" to turn on their body cams during the encounter.
What's less interesting, and certainly not surprising, is that you take the police union's account of these events as Gospel.
Yup
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NM
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Got it, so you are appalled when one group protests something (exercising their rights) but are a staunch advocate when another group protests something (exercising their rights). You can disagree with the police all you want (you exercising your right), but they are exercising their rights just as much as the NFL players are. Should the peaceful counter-protestors against Trump protestors not be allowed to counter-protest because they are trying to stop someone's rights by not letting them be heard?
They are protesting THE CONSTITUTION. Yes, it is within their rights, but why would you protest the exercise of the rights that make us free in the first place. Why don't we all protest the Constitution so we can abolish it and just become slaves to the country. Let's use the rights we are given to protest against the rights we are given! That's the route this administration wants anyway. Running a dictatorship is so much easier.
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Interesting that you stress how Michael Bennett has a BIG BIG responsibility to tell the truth, yet don't demand the same of the police officer, who've already thrown their credibility into question by conveniently "forgetting" to turn on their body cams during the encounter.
What's less interesting, and certainly not surprising, is that you take the police union's account of these events as Gospel.
yes, it is interesting and yes michael bennett has a "big big" responsibility here-no? do you disagree with that? will more cops be shot because of michael bennett's actions? if so, indirectly or directly, hell of a price to pay for trying to do your job of protecting the public. if more shots ring out, if michael bennett(not him personally) was the person with the gun and he runs out and shoots more innocent people, who gets blamed then? to many "what ifs" here that could have gone very badly. bennett has got to chill and take his medicine
how do you know that he forgot to turn on his body cam? police and credibility? no surprise-another broad brush ::)
one has to obey the cops orders. bennett did not. he ended up eating concrete, now he is trying to blame the cops for his stupidity.
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Interesting that you stress how Michael Bennett has a BIG BIG responsibility to tell the truth, yet don't demand the same of the police officer, who've already thrown their credibility into question by conveniently "forgetting" to turn on their body cams during the encounter.
What's less interesting, and certainly not surprising, is that you take the police union's account of these events as Gospel.
It's not really very interesting. Bennett is a black man. It is HIS responsibility to be truthful.
The "very fine people" in the nazi party and white supremacist movement would tell you that if you just ask.
It's never pretty when someone here on Scoop goes full bore racist..... but it's not the 1st time we've seen it.
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I 'obeyed' every cops orders and still got thrown onto the hood of a police car, despite the fact I wasnt even the person they were looking for... Couldnt even imagine if I were a black man in that situation.
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yes, it is interesting and yes michael bennett has a "big big" responsibility here-no? do you disagree with that? will more cops be shot because of michael bennett's actions? if so, indirectly or directly, hell of a price to pay for trying to do your job of protecting the public. if more shots ring out, if michael bennett(not him personally) was the person with the gun and he runs out and shoots more innocent people, who gets blamed then? to many "what ifs" here that could have gone very badly. bennett has got to chill and take his medicine
how do you know that he forgot to turn on his body cam? police and credibility? no surprise-another broad brush ::)
one has to obey the cops orders. bennett did not. he ended up eating concrete, now he is trying to blame the cops for his stupidity.
Why are you so quick to believe the police version of events?
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how do you know that he forgot to turn on his body cam? police and credibility? no surprise-another broad brush ::)
Rocket ... you'd do better around here if you bothered to learn the facts before posting.
Las Vegas police officers are required to activate their mandatory body cameras when responding to a call involving contact with citizens or taking any action to detain a citizen. This is fact.
The police officers who detained Michael Bennett did not activate their body cameras. This also is fact.
In my mind, when police officers choose to conduct a detention or citizen interaction in a manner that violates their department policy, their actions and credibility deserve scrutiny.
Let's be clear here: Michael Bennett did nothing illegal or wrong. The officers, at best, were guilty of negligence.
I have no idea whether Bennett was a victim of racial profiling. But he likely was a victim of implicit bias, and definitely a victim of bad police work.
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Said it 3 years ago, will say it over and over again until he finally gets cut.
Kevin White is utter trash. What a complete waste of a draft pick.
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They bloody had it...
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They bloody had it...
That would've been awesome. But, alas, it's still the Bears.
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Bears Down
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Ben Rothlisberger now the winningest quarterback in FirstEnergy Stadium history. He's 22-2 against the Brownies in his career.
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How are the Packers fans feeling about their own Bennett raising his fist in protest during the anthem?
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New year, same Mac. Literally can't get the ball back but we'll give them 2 free timeouts. Because even if we could get the ball back our O is rolling so totally worth it. He does this every game and every game we give up points when the opponent is trying to simply take it to halftime. God awful.
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Said it 3 years ago, will say it over and over again until he finally gets cut.
Kevin White is utter trash. What a complete waste of a draft pick.
You can start saving your breath. Word is that he broke his collarbone and needs season-ending surgery (likely ending his Bears career).
That Beasley guy who was picked right after him looks like he could be decent player though...
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How are the Packers fans feeling about their own Bennett raising his fist in protest during the anthem?
Good for him. It hit awfully close to home for him.
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Rocket ... you'd do better around here if you bothered to learn the facts before posting.
Las Vegas police officers are required to activate their mandatory body cameras when responding to a call involving contact with citizens or taking any action to detain a citizen. This is fact.
The police officers who detained Michael Bennett did not activate their body cameras. This also is fact.
In my mind, when police officers choose to conduct a detention or citizen interaction in a manner that violates their department policy, their actions and credibility deserve scrutiny.
Let's be clear here: Michael Bennett did nothing illegal or wrong. The officers, at best, were guilty of negligence.
I have no idea whether Bennett was a victim of racial profiling. But he likely was a victim of implicit bias, and definitely a victim of bad police work.
A sergeant had his/her body camera on and they captured that video. Two Hispanic officers that tackled Bennett did not have their body cameras on.
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They bloody had it...
The one time I root for the Bears ... and they choke like dogs.
Go Panthers!
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/09/browns_players_run_out_of_tunn.amp
This is how change starts. Kneeling during a National Anthem? Feel free, but it's not going to change anything.
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A sergeant had his/her body camera on and they captured that video. Two Hispanic officers that tackled Bennett did not have their body cameras on.
"McMahill said police have 126 videos connected to the incident — including other body camera and security footage — that investigators are reviewing.
why the officer most closely associated with the altercation did not have his body cam on is a separate issue. what happened is well recorded and doesn't negate the fact that bennett did not follow police orders. the non-activated body cam issue should be dealt with separately.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/09/browns_players_run_out_of_tunn.amp
This is how change starts. Kneeling during a National Anthem? Feel free, but it's not going to change anything.
Does this happen without Kaepernick's protest? I don't think so.
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"McMahill said police have 126 videos connected to the incident — including other body camera and security footage — that investigators are reviewing.
why the officer most closely associated with the altercation did not have his body cam on is a separate issue. what happened is well recorded and doesn't negate the fact that bennett did not follow police orders. the non-activated body cam issue should be dealt with separately.
How can you make a conclusion about his actions when they are still reviewing evidence?
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Good for him. It hit awfully close to home for him.
what hit awfully close to home? so if i feel i get mistreated by authorities, i can go to my office and raise my fist for a couple of minutes?
life lesson-listen to the police. if you are being "wronged", listen even harder because not much good is going to come out of the contrary. leave the d.a., your attorney and public opinion to sort out the issues later as you have a better chance of being upright, breathing and taking in solids that way as opposed to digging in deeper
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Does this happen without Kaepernick's protest? I don't think so.
Only if you think things have gotten worse only because of Kaepernick's protest.
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How can you make a conclusion about his actions when they are still reviewing evidence?
"Sources connected to the investigation tell TMZ Sports … when cops responded to the club for a possible shooting, they ordered everyone to get down and not move so they could properly search and investigate. We’re told Bennett did not stay put — instead, he ran — and a cop outside the club stopped him and ordered him down to the ground at gunpoint. Our sources say Bennett was detained until cops could determine he was not involved in any possible criminal activity … and he was released."
i don't feel i have necessarily made or come to conclusion yet
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i don't feel i have necessarily made or come to conclusion yet
Yeah, I guess I have no idea why anyone would assume that you have already drawn conclusions...
doesn't negate the fact that bennett did not follow police orders.
I mean, why would anyone draw that conclusion?
one has to obey the cops orders. bennett did not. he ended up eating concrete, now he is trying to blame the cops for his stupidity.
It's a mystery.
michael bennet did not heed their orders, hid behind a gaming machine, then tried to run.
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A sergeant had his/her body camera on and they captured that video. Two Hispanic officers that tackled Bennett did not have their body cameras on.
Why is the officers' ethnicity rrelevant to whether they adhered to policy?
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/09/browns_players_run_out_of_tunn.amp
This is how change starts. Kneeling during a National Anthem? Feel free, but it's not going to change anything.
In your opinion.
I hope you're right about the Browns and cops starting "change." We'll see!
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That Sunday night game was utterly boring.
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The one time I root for the Bears ... and they choke like dogs.
They lost because of plays a high school should never have permitted.
And Kevin White may be out for the season -- again!
UGH!!!!
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/09/browns_players_run_out_of_tunn.amp
This is how change starts. Kneeling during a National Anthem? Feel free, but it's not going to change anything.
Except this likely would have never happened if several Browns players didn't kneel during the anthem together.
Only if you think things have gotten worse only because of Kaepernick's protest.
I have never seen a successful civil rights movement that didn't get worse before it got better.
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That Sunday night game was utterly boring.
Baffling play calling on both sides. Giants looked inept and clueless and Eli never settled in. The Cowboys would make clever movement and passing plays to move up the field, and then proceed to try and run into the teeth of a stout Giants D line the minute the crossed the 50. I lost track of the number of drives that stalled on a short field.
"Marquee" games after the noon kicks were just awful.
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Except this likely would have never happened if several Browns players didn't kneel during the anthem together.
I have never seen a successful civil rights movement that didn't get worse before it got better.
I'm thinking that there were a number of things that were more influential in causing things to get worse before they got better (which we don't know if they will but hopefully this is a first step) ahead of a football player taking the attention away from the National Anthem and putting it on himself. Collin Kaepernick's taking a knee or the presidential election and everything our president has done in office, plus the response to that. I'm thinking it's the ladder much more so than the former.
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I'm thinking that there were a number of things that were more influential in causing things to get worse before they got better (which we don't know if they will but hopefully this is a first step) ahead of a football player taking the attention away from the National Anthem and putting it on himself. Collin Kaepernick's taking a knee or the presidential election and everything our president has done in office, plus the response to that. I'm thinking it's the ladder much more so than the former.
You can try to spin this any way you like, but without Kaepernick, yesterday's demonstration doesn't happen. Protests almost always piss the people in power off before it leads to positive change. This one is likely no different. We'll see how much changes but even a skeptic like you seems to think this is going to work!
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You can try to spin this any way you like, but without Kaepernick, yesterday's demonstration doesn't happen. Protests almost always piss the people in power off before it leads to positive change. This one is likely no different. We'll see how much changes but even a skeptic like you seems to think this is going to work!
I don't know that anything needs to be spun. Kneeling for the National Anthem accomplishes absolutely nothing other than taking the spotlight off of the National Anthem and putting it on a single individual. It's not creating some cultural change.
I've said it all along, kneeling will do nothing at all. Get involved in the community and in the conversation as to how to fix the things that you believe need to be changed. Use your platform as a professional athlete to have your voice heard. If you want change, go out and vote. Don't kneel for the National Anthem because of the injustices you face and then refuse to vote.
Good move by the Browns. They see a need to change so they're willing to step up and engage in conversation with people that can help make those changes.
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Always fun seeing a white person telling black person how to protest against racism properly.
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Always fun seeing a white person telling black person how to protest against racism properly.
Or simply discussing what is effective, but I guess I can't comment on whether Kaepernick's protest worked because I'm not black. Lol.
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Always fun seeing a white person telling black person how to protest against racism properly.
No, not telling them how to, that would at least be instructive. This is just saying what they are doing isn't the right way. "I dont know how you should do it instead, just dont do that".
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No, not telling them how to, that would at least be instructive. This is just saying what they are doing isn't the right way. "I dont know how you should do it instead, just dont do that".
The ability to read helps.
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Why is the officers' ethnicity rrelevant to whether they adhered to policy?
I'm hard pressed to remember with few exceptions (Utah nurse, etc), where posts here about police aren't about ethnicity, race. That is why people post them, to bring up some type of awareness or plight. Do you disagree?
This is about Michael Bennett in Vegas, right? He said he is protesting the treatment of minorities by law enforcement after being "a black man in the wrong place." That is a charge of racism, right? The fact the two police that tackled him are also minorities is not relevant? If the officers were African American, how does this story go? How about if the officers were caucasian? Of course it is relevant because the entire premise of the argument people are making is a racist charge.
The union’s letter, authored by Detective Steve Grammas, claims police had “reasonable suspicion” to detain Bennett while they determined if he was a suspect. It concludes that Bennett’s claims that the officers, which the department has said are each Hispanic, are racist is “false and offensive to the men and women of law enforcement” and says the union is happy to meet with Goodell.
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I'm hard pressed to remember with few exceptions (Utah nurse, etc), where posts here about police aren't about ethnicity, race. That is why people post them, to bring up some type of awareness or plight. Do you disagree?
This is about Michael Bennett in Vegas, right? He said he is protesting the treatment of minorities by law enforcement after being "a black man in the wrong place." That is a charge of racism, right? The fact the two police that tackled him are also minorities is not relevant? If the officers were African American, how does this story go? How about if the officers were caucasian? Of course it is relevant because the entire premise of the argument people are making is a racist charge.
It doesn't matter one bit. Racism can be perpetrated by anyone. A black person can conduct racist acts against another black person.
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The ability to read helps.
I can read. But continue being a condescending know-it-all. You've just suggested nothing different than what people have said to do for years. As mentioned before, the media hasn't acknowledged the myriad of good things Kap did in the community. And the teams/league certainly aren't going to give a player a soapbox to expressive controversial views. Ive already said I agree with you that him refusing to vote cheapens his message, but otherwise.
And you deeming something ineffective in under a year when its seeking to bring about larger scale, macro change is wildly premature. There's a conversation, other players are invested, the actions at the beginning of the Browns game was great. None of this happens quickly or easily. Desegregation didn't happen in 6 months.
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I don't know that anything needs to be spun. Kneeling for the National Anthem accomplishes absolutely nothing other than taking the spotlight off of the National Anthem and putting it on a single individual. It's not creating some cultural change.
I've said it all along, kneeling will do nothing at all. Get involved in the community and in the conversation as to how to fix the things that you believe need to be changed. Use your platform as a professional athlete to have your voice heard. If you want change, go out and vote. Don't kneel for the National Anthem because of the injustices you face and then refuse to vote.
Good move by the Browns. They see a need to change so they're willing to step up and engage in conversation with people that can help make those changes.
But it did. Kaepernick kneeled, which led to the Browns kneeling, which led to the demonstration that we saw yesterday. The third event doesn't happen without the first one.
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I can read. But continue being a condescending know-it-all. You've just suggested nothing different than what people have said to do for years. As mentioned before, the media hasn't acknowledged the myriad of good things Kap did in the community. And the teams/league certainly aren't going to give a player a soapbox to expressive controversial views. Ive already said I agree with you that him refusing to vote cheapens his message, but otherwise.
And you deeming something ineffective in under a year when its seeking to bring about larger scale, macro change is wildly premature. There's a conversation, other players are invested, the actions at the beginning of the Browns game was great. None of this happens quickly or easily. Desegregation didn't happen in 6 months.
So is it just the NFL that wouldn't give their players a "soapbox to expressive controversial views?" I don't know what the process was for Wade, LBJ, CP3, and Carmelo to get their soapbox for the ESPYs, but I would imagine that if 4 of the biggest names in the NFL went to the ESPYs on their own and asked if they could share a message for the viewing audience to see during the ESPYs and the ESPYs agreed to it there wouldn't be much the NFL could do to stop it. If professional athletes want their voices to be heard they can usually find a way to have them heard.
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I'm hard pressed to remember with few exceptions (Utah nurse, etc), where posts here about police aren't about ethnicity, race. That is why people post them, to bring up some type of awareness or plight. Do you disagree?
This is about Michael Bennett in Vegas, right? He said he is protesting the treatment of minorities by law enforcement after being "a black man in the wrong place." That is a charge of racism, right? The fact the two police that tackled him are also minorities is not relevant? If the officers were African American, how does this story go? How about if the officers were caucasian? Of course it is relevant because the entire premise of the argument people are making is a racist charge.
No, the fact the two officers are Hispanic is not relevant to whether Michael Bennett was a victim of bias.
In fact, it also would be irrelevant if the officers were black. Unless your stance is that minorities are incapable of bias. Is that your position here?
How about you spend a few minutes educating yourself about implicit bias and how it leads to things like this happening.
Or think about this ... by all accounts (and backed up by video), many people were running from this nightclub when police arrived at the scene. Also by all accounts, Michael Bennett was the only one detained with a gun to his head.
Why do you think that is? Why, of all the people fleeing from the club, was Bennett singled out as the "dangerous" one?
And no, the entire premise of the argument is not, as you seem to believe, about white cops and black citizens. It's about all cops and black citizens. It's about a law enforcement culture that says of all the people running from a reported shooting, the black guy is the dangerous one. One that says a 12-year-old black boy with a toy gun needs to be shot first and asked questions later. One that says a black man shopping for a BB gun in a Walmart needs to be put down. One that says a black teenager can be shot to death by police while on his own driveway for acting suspiciously.
I don't even blame the individual cops here. I blame the inadequate training they receive and jaundiced culture in which they're indocrinated.
But culture change is hard, and first would require an admission that the culture is deeply flawed. It's much easier to bury our heads in the sand and pretend a large portion of our fellow Americans suffer mass hysteria.
And this is way off the topic of the 2017-18 NFL season, so I'll no longer discuss this in this thread.
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Will Lacy still be on the Seahawks this week?
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Will Lacy still be on the Seahawks this week?
I was thinking the same thing. He looked awful. But so does their O line.
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I was thinking the same thing. He looked awful. But so does their O line.
His usage was laughable. Every time he was in he got the ball and they'd just run up the middle. Packers anticipated it every time.
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But it did. Kaepernick kneeled, which led to the Browns kneeling, which led to the demonstration that we saw yesterday. The third event doesn't happen without the first one.
I'll admit that I was critical of Kaepernick's protest because "nothing was being accomplished." However, it's hard to argue that his taking a knee didn't contribute to the scene of unity in Cleveland yesterday. While I still think Kap was ill-prepared and botched his protest's aftermath, he still deserves credit for getting the ball rolling. The Browns and the city of Cleveland got it right. (How often do you hear that?) The players' demonstration upset the police so the players reached out and the groups got together to discuss where they were coming from and find a symbolic solution to show that they were working together towards a common goal. Hopefully this leads to more players reaching out to community leaders and attempting to literally have their voices heard.
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Does this happen without Kaepernick's protest? I don't think so.
Exactly. Kaepernick's protest is what led to all these other protests. He did start the change.
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The only time I had to watch football yesterday was the NYG/Cowboy game. I saw Elliot get a carry and turned it off. Underinflated balls? Suspension. Political stand? Can't get a job. Elliot? No biggie.
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The only time I had to watch football yesterday was the NYG/Cowboy game. I saw Elliot get a carry and turned it off. Underinflated balls? Suspension. Political stand? Can't get a job. Elliot? No biggie.
Well, they did suspend him, but the courts ruled against the NFL. I'm not up on the topic, but not sure what the NFL could have done to make it stick.
Al and Chris were very light on their feet as they danced around the subject. At least during the parts I watched.
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Well, they did suspend him, but the courts ruled against the NFL. I'm not up on the topic, but not sure what the NFL could have done to make it stick.
Al and Chris were very light on their feet as they danced around the subject. At least during the parts I watched.
Yeah. That and the fact that it's not the NFL telling teams they can't sign Kaepernick. If Kaepernick were as good at football as Elliot is he'd be playing every week with no issue.
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Yeah. That and the fact that it's not the NFL telling teams they can't sign Kaepernick. If Kaepernick were as good at football as Elliot is he'd be playing every week with no issue.
After watching Scott Tolzien, Tom Savage, Josh McCown and Brian Hoyer starts games yesterday, nobody can credibly argue that Colin Kapernick is out of the league because of his playing abilities.
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Add Carson Palmer to that list.
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But it did. Kaepernick kneeled, which led to the Browns kneeling, which led to the demonstration that we saw yesterday. The third event doesn't happen without the first one.
I tend to disagree with the position Kaepernick is taking. But, I respect the hell out of him for what he is doing (although not voting was stupid). I believe he is far more brave and deserves far more credit than athletes who stand on the stage at the ESPYs and make speeches (although I think they deserve credit too). Anyone who thinks that what he's doing is having no effect isn't paying attention.
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Yeah. That and the fact that it's not the NFL telling teams they can't sign Kaepernick. If Kaepernick were as good at football as Elliot is he'd be playing every week with no issue.
Exactly. It's a sexier story to say that he's being blackballed because of his politics but the truth is that, in the minds of NFL coaches and executives, the controversy and sideshow that come along with Kaepernick outweigh his on-field abilities.
The Cowboys are standing by their star RB through domestic violence charges but released a back-up WR in training camp after he was wrongfully accused of missing his court date in a case of mistaken identity. It's all about whether or not you can play.
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After watching Scott Tolzien, Tom Savage, Josh McCown and Brian Hoyer starts games yesterday, nobody can credibly argue that Colin Kapernick is out of the league because of his playing abilities.
Kaepernick's playing abilities (and lack thereof) absolutely are a part of the equation. Or are you saying that if Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady had been the ones kneeling going into last season they wouldn't be on a roster this season?
Exactly. It's a sexier story to say that he's being blackballed because of his politics but the truth is that, in the minds of NFL coaches and executives, the controversy and sideshow that come along with Kaepernick outweigh his on-field abilities.
The Cowboys are standing by their star RB through domestic violence charges but released a back-up WR in training camp after he was wrongfully accused of missing his court date in a case of mistaken identity. It's all about whether or not you can play.
Yup.
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After watching Scott Tolzien, Tom Savage, Josh McCown and Brian Hoyer starts games yesterday, nobody can credibly argue that Colin Kapernick is out of the league because of his playing abilities.
Nobody is arguing that. What people are arguing is that Kapernick's abilities combined with the distractions/baggage he brings with him are not worth it. He's not going to be the reason you win games, so why should you or your team waste time and energy dealing with media about him?
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Nobody is arguing that. What people are arguing is that Kapernick's abilities combined with the distractions/baggage he brings with him are not worth it. He's not going to be the reason you win games, so why should you or your team waste time and energy dealing with media about him?
That's exactly what some are arguing.
When your argument boils down to "Kaepernik would need to be a future Hall of Famer to get a roster spot," you are admitting that the only reason he's not in the league is because of his protest.
As for the waste of time and energy, that's a red herring. Find me one player, coach or front office person in San Francisco who says Kaepernik's protest had a negative impact on their season.
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Yeah the whole "he's a distraction" is a line of grade A bullsh*t. Kaepernick would improve a team like the Colts instantly.
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Yeah the whole "he's a distraction" is a line of grade A bullsh*t. Kaepernick would improve a team like the Colts instantly.
Yes, he would improve the Colts...but they don't want to deal with all that comes along with signing him.
That's exactly what some are arguing.
When your argument boils down to "Kaepernik would need to be a future Hall of Famer to get a roster spot," you are admitting that the only reason he's not in the league is because of his protest.
As for the waste of time and energy, that's a red herring. Find me one player, coach or front office person in San Francisco who says Kaepernik's protest had a negative impact on their season.
No one said he needed to be a future HOFer to be on a roster.
Why were the 49ers - a team with no QB - going to cut Kaepernick had he not opted out?
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Yeah the whole "he's a distraction" is a line of grade A bullsh*t. Kaepernick would improve a team like the Colts instantly.
To what extent? The 49ers won an average of 5 games/year over the past 3 years with Kaepernick on their roster.
If people think he's good enough to help teams win games and deserves to be on a team's roster, isn't the only option that he's a distraction and that's why he's not on a team? If it's not too bad to be on a team and he's also not a distraction, then what is it?
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Yes, he would improve the Colts...but they don't want to deal with all that comes along with signing him.
Then they're idiots.
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Saying Kaepernick is not good enough to be on a roster is WAY different from saying that the potential distraction makes him not worth signing. The same thing hastened Tebow's departure from the NFL - owners loved the idea of Tebow but coaches and GMs hated being pressured by fans to play a decidedly inferior QB. Elway couldn't wait to dump Tebow and even Belichick determined Tebow wasn't worth the hassle. I think everybody here is objective enough to agree that Kaepernick is/was a much better pro QB than Tebow ever was or will be.
For the view of a fellow athlete, here is Steph Curry's take on the Kaepernick situation as told to Charlotte Observer columnist Scott Fowler before the Panthers' game at San Fran yesterday:
He definitely should be in the NFL. If you’ve been around the NFL, the top 64 quarterbacks, and he’s not one of them? Then I don’t know what game I’m watching.
Obviously his stance and his peaceful protest when he was playing here kind of shook up the world, and I think for the better. But hopefully he gets back in the league – because he deserves to be here and he deserves an opportunity to play. He’s in his prime and can make a team better.
One can agree or disagree with Curry, but disagreeing with him - or with those of us who agree with him - doesn't make him (or us) "wrong." It's just a different opinion.
If Kaepernick was a similarly talented NBA player, he never would have been blackballed, as that is a player's league. But the NFL is run by people who think each game is "war" and each opponent has to be "conquered." The owners and coaches are very much in control, and PR is everything.
One of the funny things is watching some of the same folks who whine constantly about the evils of "political correctness" defending NFL owners for this incredibly PC decision.
Still, in the end, I say that Kaepernick was free to protest and NFL owners are free not to employ him. It's self-defeating and hypocritical, but it's certainly their right.
I also say Kaep hurt himself by wearing socks depicting "pig cops," saying Trump and Clinton were equally racist, and not voting. To me, each of those things is significantly worse than kneeling during the anthem. If I'm an owner, I can defend a person's freedom to protest peacefully a lot easier than I could defend a person who has talked about cops being evil.
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No one said he needed to be a future HOFer to be on a roster.
Why were the 49ers - a team with no QB - going to cut Kaepernick had he not opted out?
And yet I've only read about 100 times on this board (including a few posts ago) that "if he were Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers he would be on a team."
The 49ers were going to cut him because keeping him would have cost them a minimum $14.5 million and as much as $19.3 million. He could be the most patriotic American in the whole league and still get cut because of that deal.
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That's exactly what some are arguing.
When your argument boils down to "Kaepernik would need to be a future Hall of Famer to get a roster spot," you are admitting that the only reason he's not in the league is because of his protest.
As for the waste of time and energy, that's a red herring. Find me one player, coach or front office person in San Francisco who says Kaepernik's protest had a negative impact on their season.
The argument (it is not my argument) is that he is not worth the trouble that comes with him. He has to be good enough to start (for that you'd better be a zone-read team rather than a drop back passing team with a lousy current QB) and increase your win total (which assumes you are a team that wants to increase its 2017 win total) to be worth it in my opinion. For example, he might help the Jets win a game or two more than would McCown, but frankly 1-McCown is a traditional drop back passer which is what the Jets apparently want and 2-they'd rather have 1 win than 2 or 3. He's a good fit as a back-up on a team with a QB who is similar in style to him.
I don't think that is a red herring. What is a coach going to say yeah he was a distraction that I let affect my team? That's not a good look for that coach. Is a player going to say I lost my focus because of him? That's not a good look either.
I'm not saying he is or isn't a distraction, but if that's not the reason why nobody wants him, what is? To me it's got to be that or PR, both of which are legitimate reasons for a business. I agree he's one of the best 64.
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Say what you want Wades but Kaeps protests are obviously impacting something if we are still talking about on a Marquette basketball boards every after week one of the season.
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Say what you want Wades but Kaeps protests are obviously impacting something if we are still talking about on a Marquette basketball boards every after week one of the season.
Therein lies the problem. People are talking about him. On the internet. Not about the issue he was supposedly standing against and not actively out there making a difference in the community.
And yet I've only read about 100 times on this board (including a few posts ago) that "if he were Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers he would be on a team."
The 49ers were going to cut him because keeping him would have cost them a minimum $14.5 million and as much as $19.3 million. He could be the most patriotic American in the whole league and still get cut because of that deal.
Right. Patriotic or not patriotic, he's not worth the money that he'd command. Simply put, patriotic or not, he's not good enough on the football field to warrant paying him, kneeling or not kneeling.
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And yet I've only read about 100 times on this board (including a few posts ago) that "if he were Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers he would be on a team."
The 49ers were going to cut him because keeping him would have cost them a minimum $14.5 million and as much as $19.3 million. He could be the most patriotic American in the whole league and still get cut because of that deal.
Using star players probably skewed the point. How about this...If it were Kirk Cousins or Andy Dalton he'd be on an NFL roster too. Is that better? Point being, if he was good enough to be a solid starting QB, he'd be on a roster. He's a back-up/fringe starter so he's unemployed.
How much of an effort did SF make to bring him back? They chose Brian Hoyer and Matt Barkley over him!
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Using star players probably skewed the point. How about this...If it were Kirk Cousins or Andy Dalton he'd be on an NFL roster too. Is that better? Point being, if he was good enough to be a solid starting QB, he'd be on a roster. He's a back-up/fringe starter so he's unemployed.
But he was a solid starting QB last year, even with a pretty atrocious group of skill players around him. The numbers don't lie.
Respectfully, I'm not sure what this argument is about at this point. Nobody here believes Kaepernick would be unemployed if he stood for the anthem last year, right? Surely a guy with a 17-to-4 TD to INT ratio and QB rating above 90 is worthy of a roster spot.
Whether you (like me) believe his unemployment is because NFL owners are cowardly in the face of the meathead element of their fanbase ... or (like you) believe it's because he would be too much of a distraction, his ability to play the game in and of itself is not what's keeping him out of the league, right?
Toss out all the qualifiers. He's not Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers or Andy Dalton or Kirk Cousins. He's Colin Kaepernick, and Colin Kaepernick is one of the 64 best QBs on the planet and should be in the NFL.
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But he was a solid starting QB last year, even with a pretty atrocious group of skill players around him. The numbers don't lie.
Respectfully, I'm not sure what this argument is about at this point. Nobody here believes Kaepernick would be unemployed if he stood for the anthem last year, right? Surely a guy with a 17-to-4 TD to INT ratio and QB rating above 90 is worthy of a roster spot.
Whether you (like me) believe his unemployment is because NFL owners are cowardly in the face of the meathead element of their fanbase ... or (like you) believe it's because he would be too much of a distraction, his ability to play the game in and of itself is not what's keeping him out of the league, right?
Toss out all the qualifiers. He's not Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers or Andy Dalton or Kirk Cousins. He's Colin Kaepernick, and Colin Kaepernick is one of the 64 best QBs on the planet and should be in the NFL.
Indisputable, as far as I'm concerned.
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But he was a solid starting QB last year, even with a pretty atrocious group of skill players around him. The numbers don't lie.
Respectfully, I'm not sure what this argument is about at this point. Nobody here believes Kaepernick would be unemployed if he stood for the anthem last year, right? Surely a guy with a 17-to-4 TD to INT ratio and QB rating above 90 is worthy of a roster spot.
Whether you (like me) believe his unemployment is because NFL owners are cowardly in the face of the meathead element of their fanbase ... or (like you) believe it's because he would be too much of a distraction, his ability to play the game in and of itself is not what's keeping him out of the league, right?
Toss out all the qualifiers. He's not Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers or Andy Dalton or Kirk Cousins. He's Colin Kaepernick, and Colin Kaepernick is one of the 64 best QBs on the planet and should be in the NFL.
Bingo.
Obviously, I don't blame San Fran for being unwilling to pay that ridiculous salary. But has anybody heard/read from either Kaepernick or his agent what he realistically expects to get paid? Serious question, as I have not heard.
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Yes, he would improve the Colts...but they don't want to a deal with all that comes along with signing him.
FIFY.
Kapernick is better than just about any backup QB in the NFL right now. He might even be better than the bottom third of the starting QB's out there. All of that is irrelevant because Colin is/was reportedly asking for a base salary of upwards of $10M, which would put him ahead of guys like Cutler, Flacco and Luck ($5M, $6M, and $7M, respectively). Keep in mind, Kaepernick opted out of a $14.5M contract; granted, SF was likely to cut him had he not opted out, but don't ever underestimate the ego of an NFL quarterback... but ego or not, Kaepernick's market is/was around the $6-8M range, and rarely do you find a healthy player taking a 25-50% pay cut from one year to the next, regardless of the circumstances.
Most NFL teams are willing to put up with a player who might be a distraction, but no NFL team is going to overpay for a distraction.
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FIFY.
Kapernick is better than just about any backup QB in the NFL right now. He might even be better than the bottom third of the starting QB's out there. All of that is irrelevant because Colin is/was reportedly asking for a base salary of upwards of $10M, which would put him ahead of guys like Cutler, Flacco and Luck ($5M, $6M, and $7M, respectively).
That $10 million figure has been refuted numerous times by numerous sources. It likely was the result of a leak by the 49ers.
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/05/16/kawakami-colin-kaepernick-seattles-interest-and-a-guess-at-who-circulated-that-false-10m-asking-price/
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/28/source-completely-false-to-say-kaepernick-has-asked-for-9-10-million-per-year/
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/colin-kaepernick-shannon-sharpe-harry-edwards-san-francisco-49ers-contract-demands-051317
Secondly, base salaries are meaningless. Total cash is what matters. Yes, Andrew Luck has a base salary of $7 million. But he's getting another $12 million in roster and signing bonuses and other guarantees. His total compensation for 2017 is $27 million.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/andrew-luck-9811/
Flacco's base is $6 million, but he's getting another $17 million in other compensation this year.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/joe-flacco-4000/
So, no Kaepernick did not demand $10 million on the free agent market, and no, a $10 million contract would not pay him more than Andrew Luck and Joe Flacco.
Most NFL teams are willing to put up with a player who might be a distraction, but no NFL team is going to overpay for a distraction.
Yes, this is true.
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Is it wrong to enjoy hearing Seahawks fans complain about bad/missed calls, cuz I sure am enjoying it.
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Then they're idiots.
then what are those 49'ers? racists? why didn't they or why don't they re-offer him a contract at less money?
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Is it wrong to enjoy hearing Seahawks fans complain about bad/missed calls, cuz I sure am enjoying it.
hate when that happens, ayyn'a? he who laughs last...
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Is it wrong to enjoy hearing Seahawks fans complain about bad/missed calls, cuz I sure am enjoying it.
Did they lose cause of missed calls? No, they lost cause the Packers D played exceptionally. However, the call on the pick 6 was awful and would have definitely changed the face of the game a bit.
Speaking of, 2 terrible personal fouls in the Vikings game already. Might as well put a red jersey on QBs.
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Speaking of, 2 terrible personal fouls in the Vikings game already. Might as well put a red jersey on QBs.
Given the state of quarterbacking in the league these days, I'm not sure that's such a terrible idea. Got to protect the 15 or so guys who can play the position.
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Skol Vikings we are the best
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Skol Vikings we are the best
10/15
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I'll admit that I was critical of Kaepernick's protest because "nothing was being accomplished." However, it's hard to argue that his taking a knee didn't contribute to the scene of unity in Cleveland yesterday. While I still think Kap was ill-prepared and botched his protest's aftermath, he still deserves credit for getting the ball rolling.
Agree completely. But, if I could add this, it was new territory for Colin, so to expect him to protest and then follow it up in the right way would be pretty hard, since we don't really know what the right way was.
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If Colin Kaepernick was a little better quarterback he would be on an NFL roster.
If Colin Kaepernick wasn't the face of kneeling during the national anthem he would be on an NFL roster.
Both of these statements are true.
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Did they lose cause of missed calls? No, they lost cause the Packers D played exceptionally. However, the call on the pick 6 was awful and would have definitely changed the face of the game a bit.
Speaking of, 2 terrible personal fouls in the Vikings game already. Might as well put a red jersey on QBs.
The only "call" worse than the clip and the ejection was the no call on the blatant PI on Graham in the end zone. It's possible Seattle still settles for 3 even with the call, but it's also possible that the officials took 11 points of the board for Seattle in an 8-point loss. Lambeau magic strikes again but at least the calls went against a very hateable Seattle team ;)
As for MNF, I couldn't believe there was a roughing the passer call on a one-man sack. I didn't think that was possible.
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If Colin Kaepernick was a little better quarterback he would be on an NFL roster.
If Colin Kaepernick wasn't the face of kneeling during the national anthem he would be on an NFL roster.
Both of these statements are true.
Tough to argue with that.
(https://t3.ftcdn.net/jpg/00/68/54/74/240_F_68547409_qgEvpgNOXeekY8XzHcvElhcmhbQ5lwsS.jpg)
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The only "call" worse than the clip and the ejection was the no call on the blatant PI on Graham in the end zone. It's possible Seattle still settles for 3 even with the call, but it's also possible that the officials took 11 points of the board for Seattle in an 8-point loss. Lambeau magic strikes again but at least the calls went against a very hateable Seattle team ;)
As for MNF, I couldn't believe there was a roughing the passer call on a one-man sack. I didn't think that was possible.
While my initial thought was that was interference for sure in the endzone, I may have changed my mind somewhat. What one sees on replay is the receiver pulling Brice's head physically toward him to 'force' contact. Was Brice face guarding? Yep. But maybe the ref thought that most of the initiating was being done by the receiver to try to force a flag. There was a late back shoulder throw to Jordy where they got tangled but I though it a very good no call too. Anyway, I hate Seattle so no worry on my end.
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As for MNF, I couldn't believe there was a roughing the passer call on a one-man sack. I didn't think that was possible.
The roughing the passer that the Vikings got for "going low" on Brees. The defensive player would have literally had to throw his hands out to his side and land on his face to not make that foul. Just silly overreactive rule making by the league.
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I kinda love the Packers tonight, lot of good angles playing in their favor I feel. Revenge game, Falcons home opener in new stadium (over amped up), better Pack D than a year ago, regression for Falcons.
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Okay, the Glennon experiment was fun but thats about all I can take. Time for Trubisky.
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Okay, the Glennon experiment was fun but thats about all I can take. Time for Trubisky.
My prediction is at home in week 5.
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Or maybe he gets in there today....
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We will see Trubisky today.
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I don't know why you don't get Trubisky some reps, especially down 29 in the fourth. Even if he's just going to handoff, let him see the field.
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I don't know why you don't get Trubisky some reps, especially down 29 in the fourth. Even if he's just going to handoff, let him see the field.
Why? There's no point. Once they go to Trubisky there's no turning back. Once he goes in, he's the guy going forward.
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I don't know why you don't get Trubisky some reps, especially down 29 in the fourth. Even if he's just going to handoff, let him see the field.
He might have got killed? Why run out your future to play with that bunch? Brutal. Fox will be gone by week 6.
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Why? There's no point. Once they go to Trubisky there's no turning back. Once he goes in, he's the guy going forward.
Whats the point of playing Glennon when everybody knows its eventually going to be Trubisky's team? They sure as hell didn't trade up just to have him sit on the bench or get traded...
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Whats the point of playing Glennon when everybody knows its eventually going to be Trubisky's team? They sure as hell didn't trade up just to have him sit on the bench or get traded...
Agreed. But you need to make the change at the beginning of the week. Just sending him out there to hand the ball off doesn't accomplish much.
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Bears out scored 41-3 in 1st quarter in last seven games. Fox just said Glennon plays next week.
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Whats the point of playing Glennon when everybody knows its eventually going to be Trubisky's team? They sure as hell didn't trade up just to have him sit on the bench or get traded...
Line is also very banged up.
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What did they have to lose putting him in down 29 in the 4th, seriously? The game was over, the Bucs D called the dogs off, you can easily go back to Glennon to start against Pittsburgh. When else are you going to find him reps? If anyone was paying attention, they talked internally LAST WEEK about finding him reps mid game against Atlanta. They said they want to find him reps, it doesn't get much easier than that today to get him in a no pressure situation.
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What did they have to lose putting him in down 29 in the 4th, seriously? The game was over, the Bucs D called the dogs off, you can easily go back to Glennon to start against Pittsburgh. When else are you going to find him reps? If anyone was paying attention, they talked internally LAST WEEK about finding him reps mid game against Atlanta. They said they want to find him reps, it doesn't get much easier than that today to get him in a no pressure situation.
So is this a Fox being Fox thing?
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So is this a Fox being Fox thing?
It has to be.
Pace wants Trubisky to get his feet wet. When else are you going to find ideal time to put the kid in? It's not like the team is going to get healthier as the year goes on or find better receivers. With the heat in Tampa today, and the Bucs up 29, their defense (rightfully) was tired and playing loose late. Trubisky needs to keep getting under center and getting live reps.
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Passing by jets raiders game-thought I was watching something from the 70's-who the hack still plays on a baseball field over the bare infield dirt?? I realize the raiders will be moving, but aren't they going to tear that up? Plus, can't imagine being tackled on that schmit
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It has to be.
Pace wants Trubisky to get his feet wet. When else are you going to find ideal time to put the kid in? It's not like the team is going to get healthier as the year goes on or find better receivers. With the heat in Tampa today, and the Bucs up 29, their defense (rightfully) was tired and playing loose late. Trubisky needs to keep getting under center and getting live reps.
Probably should be looking at kaepernick, coexist, eheheh'na?? ::)
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Passing by jets raiders game-thought I was watching something from the 70's-who the hack still plays on a baseball field over the bare infield dirt?? I realize the raiders will be moving, but aren't they going to tear that up? Plus, can't imagine being tackled on that schmit
They will cover it after baseball season is over. It's been that way since they moved back to Oakland in 1995.
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It has to be.
Pace wants Trubisky to get his feet wet. When else are you going to find ideal time to put the kid in? It's not like the team is going to get healthier as the year goes on or find better receivers. With the heat in Tampa today, and the Bucs up 29, their defense (rightfully) was tired and playing loose late. Trubisky needs to keep getting under center and getting live reps.
This is why they just should have cleaned house.
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Eddie Lacy already a healthy scratch in week 2.
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This is why they just should have cleaned house.
It's a clown show, so frustrating year after year.
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Probably should be looking at kaepernick, coexist, eheheh'na?? ::)
He'd be better than Glennon. Probably could have gotten him at a similar price too.
Much rather see Kaep air it out than another underneath route because Glennon has zero arm strength. Or sorry, was that just you trying to discredit Kaep at any chance you get? My bad.
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Bears: 2-14, first win against 49ers on December 3; other win against Browns on Christmas Eve
November 13: Day John Fox is fired and interim coach named. Ryan Pace also fired by Thanksgiving
After Week 2 of the 2017 NFL Season, I stand by my prediction.
Anybody who listened to OB and Hampton with Koz today heard OB go nuts and Hampton just be beside himself.
Chicago is headed for a Cleveland Browns style meltdown. Fox will be gone right after the Home Packer game, when the Bears are 0-for-2017.
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Anybody who listened to OB and Hampton with Koz today heard OB go nuts and Hampton just be beside himself.
So pretty much like every other week. Even when they win.
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After Week 2 of the 2017 NFL Season, I stand by my prediction.
Anybody who listened to OB and Hampton with Koz today heard OB go nuts and Hampton just be beside himself.
Chicago is headed for a Cleveland Browns style meltdown. Fox will be gone right after the Home Packer game, when the Bears are 0-for-2017.
Highly unlikely Pace is fired after the season let alone during the season. He'll have the opportunity to pick the next head coach.
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After Week 2 of the 2017 NFL Season, I stand by my prediction.
Anybody who listened to OB and Hampton with Koz today heard OB go nuts and Hampton just be beside himself.
Chicago is headed for a Cleveland Browns style meltdown. Fox will be gone right after the Home Packer game, when the Bears are 0-for-2017.
What Sultan said. OB is angry regardless of what happens.
Pace isn't going anywhere. Aside from White, his picks look like they can play. He'll get a chance to bring in his own guy to coach.
If Trubisky goes in today and doesn't play awful, you've got yourself a QB controversy. Keep him on the bench until you feel he's completely and totally ready. Based on preseason game 3, he's not there yet. When you make the move, give him a fresh, full week to prepare. This team is going no where. Why rush the franchise QB?
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He'd be better than Glennon. Probably could have gotten him at a similar price too.
Much rather see Kaep air it out than another underneath route because Glennon has zero arm strength. Or sorry, was that just you trying to discredit Kaep at any chance you get? My bad.
Not actually diss'ing kaep, just kinda spreading the nfl love for the guy-waiting for the spike lee clown show to land at O'Hara. Shouldn't all the teams take some chit when kaep doesn't enter the conversation when it is seems kinda obvious they need a qb?
Actually, the bears would be a great place for him to break the barrier. He has been known to nick the packers a little and they will be playing us twice. What do they have to lose until they feel a little better about trubitsky. Serve him up and see what happens
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Not actually diss'ing kaep, just kinda spreading the nfl love for the guy-waiting for the spike lee clown show to land at O'Hara. Shouldn't all the teams take some chit when kaep doesn't enter the conversation when it is seems kinda obvious they need a qb?
Actually, the bears would be a great place for him to break the barrier. He has been known to nick the packers a little and they will be playing us twice. What do they have to lose until they feel a little better about trubitsky. Serve him up and see what happens
Actually kinda agree with this sentiment. Not sure what the timeline with Glennon/Kaep was but Glennon cant even throw the ball 20 yards.
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Bulaga, Bakhtiari, and Spriggs all inactive.
I'll take the Falcons to cover -3.
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Like the sun rises in the east, a Dom Capers defense getting absolutely smoked by a better than average offense.
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Like the sun rises in the east, a Dom Capers defense getting absolutely smoked by a better than average offense.
Meh. Not many defenses are going to keep the Falcons from lighting up the scoreboard with average field position. When you give it to them at their 40 and at your 35 in two of their possessions, good luck.
Would've been surprised at a win in this game even if healthy. No chance with Daniels, Jordy, Bulaga, Bakhtiari, Brooks all out for essentially the entire game.
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Like the sun rises in the east, a Dom Capers defense getting absolutely smoked by a better than average offense.
We hurt ourselves BUT, that bad call before the half was brutally bad. Changes the momentum
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Why? There's no point. Once they go to Trubisky there's no turning back. Once he goes in, he's the guy going forward.
I agree completely.
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It's good to see the NFL officials are in mid-season form. I think ultimately the Packers would have lost, especially with all the players injured....but two pick plays called against the Packers resulted in at least an 11 point swing (field goal instead of touchdown and Falcon TD because of INT). The irony is that the Falcons ran the exact same pick play with no call to score their TD after the Rodgers INT. Juxtapose that with Brady talking the officials out of the same call earlier in the day and it's maddening.
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It's good to see the NFL officials are in mid-season form. I think ultimately the Packers would have lost, especially with all the players injured....but two pick plays called against the Packers resulted in at least an 11 point swing (field goal instead of touchdown and Falcon TD because of INT). The irony is that the Falcons ran the exact same pick play with no call to score their TD after the Rodgers INT. Juxtapose that with Brady talking the officials out of the same call earlier in the day and it's maddening.
And unlike Bennett or Alison, Hooper was actually a good 3.5 yards down field when he picked Burnett.
But the Packers did themselves no favors and I think that game's a loss anyways. But I personally come away from it thinking that even if we have to go there in the Playoffs, if we're relatively healthy I like our chances.
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But the Packers did themselves no favors and I think that game's a loss anyways. But I personally come away from it thinking that even if we have to go there in the Playoffs, if we're relatively healthy I like our chances.
You're more optimistic than I am. This feels like another "Harbaugh's Niners" situation, where it's a terrible matchup and the coaches have no idea how to deal with them.
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You're more optimistic than I am. This feels like another "Harbaugh's Niners" situation, where it's a terrible matchup and the coaches have no idea how to deal with them.
I understand what you are saying, but I just don't know what they are supposed to do. They controlled the ball, tied them at seven, forced a three and out. Then couldn't move it.
The lack of a running game and pass protection was as big a reason for last night as the defense was.
And yeah, the Falcons on turf are very tough. I found it odd that a lot of people weren't predicting much for them this year.
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How many more times will McCarthy give away free points right before halftime? He has done it two games in a row now. Eventually it will cause a loss.
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How many more times will McCarthy give away free points right before halftime? He has done it two games in a row now. Eventually it will cause a loss.
I understand the first game, but what exactly did he do last night? He had the ball with 1:00 to go and three timeouts. And if it weren't for a bad call, would have had the ball at about midfield.
You want him to sit on the ball there?
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I understand what you are saying, but I just don't know what they are supposed to do.
I don't know if anyone does, to be honest. It's definitely more of a personnel problem than a scheme issue.
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I understand the first game, but what exactly did he do last night? He had the ball with 1:00 to go and three timeouts. And if it weren't for a bad call, would have had the ball at about midfield.
You want him to sit on the ball there?
Yeah. Down two scores with all your timeouts left and Rodgers you better be trying to score there. It didn't work out but that wasn't a bad coaching decision.
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Trubisky starting debut prediction: October 9th (week 5) vs. the Vikings. Monday Night Football at Soldier Field. Reasons why:
-Fox has already said he is not starting this week
-They will not start him week 4 against Green Bay on the road with only a few days to prep (Thursday night game)
-The Bears will likely be 0-4 by this point
-Going from a Thursday night game to a Monday night games gives him extra preparation time.
-The fan base is already disgusted so starting him will certainly help with optics (and actually give them a better chance to win)
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I think the Packers D played well enough against Atlanta especially given the injuries that piled up. It's an annoying loss, but overall I think this team is better this year than last year (excepting for injuries). The Bengals and Bears are both terrible so the next two games should allow this team to get healthier and better so no need to panic. Looking at the schedule and the first two weeks of games, I think Green Bay goes into the bye at least 5-2 which is just fine by me.
One thing I will say, I never want to go to Bellin Healthcare, cause clearly they can't prevent or effectively treat injuries. How are the Packers the most injured team in the league year after year??? What in the holy hell are the S&C and medical teams doing up there, sitting around playing sheepshead??? If we get one more hamstring injury I'm just gonna snap.
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Trubisky starting debut prediction: October 9th (week 5) vs. the Vikings. Monday Night Football at Soldier Field. Reasons why:
-Fox has already said he is not starting this week
-They will not start him week 4 against Green Bay on the road with only a few days to prep (Thursday night game)
-The Bears will likely be 0-4 by this point
-Going from a Thursday night game to a Monday night games gives him extra preparation time.
-The fan base is already disgusted so starting him will certainly help with optics (and actually give them a better chance to win)
I think there's a chance that Trubisky starts this week. I know what Fox said postgame, but after reviewing the tape and talking it over internally, I could see his stance changing. If not this Sunday, I agree week 5 against the Vikes.
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I think there's a chance that Trubisky starts this week. I know what Fox said postgame, but after reviewing the tape and talking it over internally, I could see his stance changing. If not this Sunday, I agree week 5 against the Vikes.
That's the popular prediction. However, you also have to look ahead. After MNF against Minnesota, the Bears have a short week that ends with them playing in Baltimore then they come home to face Carolina. You really want your franchise QB to face those defenses with a battered o-line and no WRs? The team's going no where this season. Why rush it?
Barring injury, I don't think Trubisky starts any earlier than November 12 at New Orleans (at which point the Bears could easily be 0-7). He goes on the road without hoopla and then comes back off a bye to play GB and Detroit at home. Glennon was awful yesterday but he's likely to play more like he did against Atlanta - safe and uninspiring. If the Bears can sneak a few unexpected wins (a big if), we may not see Trubisky until December 3 at home vs. San Francisco.
The Bears' last 5 games of the season are SF, @ Cin, @ Det, Cle, @ Min. I'd be shocked if Trubisky isn't the starter for all 5 of those games. Either because a) Glennon has actually played well and they've won some games or b) the team is sticking with Glennon.
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Bears zzzzzz.
Packers zzzzzz.
Panthers goin' back to the Super Bowl, baby! Couldn't get the ball in the end zone but still won behind our great D.
2-0 on the way to 12-4-ish.
We'll see the Bears on Oct. 22, and the Packers on Dec. 17. Prediction: Pain! (And not for my boyz.)
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That's the popular prediction. However, you also have to look ahead. After MNF against Minnesota, the Bears have a short week that ends with them playing in Baltimore then they come home to face Carolina. You really want your franchise QB to face those defenses with a battered o-line and no WRs? The team's going no where this season. Why rush it?
Barring injury, I don't think Trubisky starts any earlier than November 12 at New Orleans (at which point the Bears could easily be 0-7). He goes on the road without hoopla and then comes back off a bye to play GB and Detroit at home. Glennon was awful yesterday but he's likely to play more like he did against Atlanta - safe and uninspiring. If the Bears can sneak a few unexpected wins (a big if), we may not see Trubisky until December 3 at home vs. San Francisco.
The Bears' last 5 games of the season are SF, @ Cin, @ Det, Cle, @ Min. I'd be shocked if Trubisky isn't the starter for all 5 of those games. Either because a) Glennon has actually played well and they've won some games or b) the team is sticking with Glennon.
You may be right. But if he's ready to play he should play, even in tough match-ups. The more reps he can get the better. If it's already a lost season and they don't think there is any more he can do to be ready, get him in there.
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I think the Packers D played well enough against Atlanta especially given the injuries that piled up. It's an annoying loss, but overall I think this team is better this year than last year (excepting for injuries). The Bengals and Bears are both terrible so the next two games should allow this team to get healthier and better so no need to panic. Looking at the schedule and the first two weeks of games, I think Green Bay goes into the bye at least 5-2 which is just fine by me.
One thing I will say, I never want to go to Bellin Healthcare, cause clearly they can't prevent or effectively treat injuries. How are the Packers the most injured team in the league year after year??? What in the holy hell are the S&C and medical teams doing up there, sitting around playing sheepshead??? If we get one more hamstring injury I'm just gonna snap.
Are they one of the more injured teams year after year? According to this, they were about average last year. And the year before, they actually were relatively healthy.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/2016-adjusted-games-lost
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Trubisky starting debut prediction: October 9th (week 5) vs. the Vikings. Monday Night Football at Soldier Field. Reasons why:
-Fox has already said he is not starting this week
-They will not start him week 4 against Green Bay on the road with only a few days to prep (Thursday night game)
-The Bears will likely be 0-4 by this point
-Going from a Thursday night game to a Monday night games gives him extra preparation time.
-The fan base is already disgusted so starting him will certainly help with optics (and actually give them a better chance to win)
I don't necessarily disagree. But I fear a David Carr-type situation. If the Bears are still beat up on the o-line, I'd hate to put Trubisky back there. Obviously, WR situation isn't going to change anytime soon. Hopefully, if o-line is healthy, coaching staff can put together a good gameplan to support Trubisky's growth/learning.
The only silver lining I can see is the example of Derek Carr. He had a crapty o-line and terrible WR and turned out okay.
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Yeah. Down two scores with all your timeouts left and Rodgers you better be trying to score there. It didn't work out but that wasn't a bad coaching decision.
Not when you are starting from the 5 yard line. You are guaranteeing points to Atlanta if you don't get a 1st down. Maybe if they have Nelson, Baktiari and Bulaga, it is worth the gamble. Last night? Absolutely not. Just a stupid, stupid decision.
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Are they one of the more injured teams year after year? According to this, they were about average last year. And the year before, they actually were relatively healthy.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/2016-adjusted-games-lost
Maybe it just feels like they have it really bad because of the critical players/positions at which those injuries have occurred and lack of depth at those positions (truly TT's biggest sin)
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Bears zzzzzz.
Packers zzzzzz.
Panthers goin' back to the Super Bowl, baby! Couldn't get the ball in the end zone but still won behind our great D.
2-0 on the way to 12-4-ish.
We'll see the Bears on Oct. 22, and the Packers on Dec. 17. Prediction: Pain! (And not for my boyz.)
That's one powerful offense that got there...if you're a baseball team ;)
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Not when you are starting from the 5 yard line. You are guaranteeing points to Atlanta if you don't get a 1st down. Maybe if they have Nelson, Baktiari and Bulaga, it is worth the gamble. Last night? Absolutely not. Just a stupid, stupid decision.
So you'd sit on the ball when Atlanta still has two timeouts remaining?
Not a chance.
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Bears zzzzzz.
Packers zzzzzz.
Panthers goin' back to the Super Bowl, baby! Couldn't get the ball in the end zone but still won behind our great D.
2-0 on the way to 12-4-ish.
We'll see the Bears on Oct. 22, and the Packers on Dec. 17. Prediction: Pain! (And not for my boyz.)
With wins over the powerhouse Bills and 49ers, I can certainly understand your enthusiasm.
But, just in case, check back in week 8 after Kuechly suffers another season-ending injury, Cam is playing with his 13th undiagnosed concussion (he's fine) and Ron Rivera is back to doing Ron Rivera things.
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Bears zzzzzz.
Packers zzzzzz.
Panthers goin' back to the Super Bowl, baby! Couldn't get the ball in the end zone but still won behind our great D.
2-0 on the way to 12-4-ish.
We'll see the Bears on Oct. 22, and the Packers on Dec. 17. Prediction: Pain! (And not for my boyz.)
Yeah, beating the 49ers and Bills is impressive.
If they had played the Seahawks and Falcons like the Packers did, they'd be 0-2.
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With wins over the powerhouse Bills and 49ers, I can certainly understand your enthusiasm.
But, just in case, check back in week 8 after Kuechly suffers another season-ending injury, Cam is playing with his 13th undiagnosed concussion (he's fine) and Ron Rivera is back to doing Ron Rivera things.
Never wish for injuries to athletes.
Rivera is a good coach. Not great, but solid, so I don't know why you'd suggest differently.
Bills have a nice defense. 49ers are awful ... but they only lost 12-9 on the road to a Seahawks team that GooooMarquette is painting as fearsome.
You can only play who is on your schedule. No apologies necessary. It will be fun to see how the Panthers do the next two weeks stepping up from Hoyer and Taylor to Brees and Brady the next 2 weeks.
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Never wish for injuries to athletes.
Rivera is a good coach. Not great, but solid, so I don't know why you'd suggest differently.
Bills have a nice defense. 49ers are awful ... but they only lost 12-9 on the road to a Seahawks team that GooooMarquette is painting as fearsome.
You can only play who is on your schedule. No apologies necessary. It will be fun to see how the Panthers do the next two weeks stepping up from Hoyer and Taylor to Brees and Brady the next 2 weeks.
Using the transitive property in sports is never a good idea. Otherwise we're going to say Tampa Bay is 22 points better than the Bears, who are 6 points worse than the Falcons, who are 11 points better than the Packers, who are 8 points better than the Seahawks. So if we're playing that game then the Bears are better than the Packers and Seahawks. And the Bucs are by far and away better than the Falcons, Packers, and Seahawks. Count me as skeptical on those.
Good defense or not, the Bills stink, the 49ers stink, and the Saints stink. Even with a fairly easy schedule, the Panthers are in the 8-8/9-7 territory.
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Good defense or not, the Bills stink, the 49ers stink, and the Saints stink. Even with a fairly easy schedule, the Panthers are in the 8-8/9-7 territory.
The beautiful thing is we won't have to wait long - only 3-4 months - to see if you are right!
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I watched the second half of last nights MNF game between the Lions and Giants. I had seen a play here and there during the first two weeks, but prior to last night I might have watched 5 minutes total in the first two weeks. No wonder the ratings are down. That was boring, bad football. If that is indicative of how the rest of the league is playing, yeeesh. Ugly.
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Teams treat the beginning of the year like the did the pre-season 20 years ago.
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I watched the second half of last nights MNF game between the Lions and Giants. I had seen a play here and there during the first two weeks, but prior to last night I might have watched 5 minutes total in the first two weeks. No wonder the ratings are down. That was boring, bad football. If that is indicative of how the rest of the league is playing, yeeesh. Ugly.
I think people are just getting tired of bad football. I love to see a great defense on the field, but we see more inept offenses than good defenses.
GB did not play great defense to hold Seattle to 9 points. It was the terrible Seattle offense that held the Seahawks to 9 points. The same inept offense that could only score 12 points at home against SF. A good offense rolled through GB's defense at will on Sunday night. They could have scored 60 if they had to. The next juggernaut offense they play scores fewer points than a lot of soccer teams
The Giants have scored one TD in two games against two very, very average defenses. That is what is driving people away from the NFL.
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Never wish for injuries to athletes.
Rivera is a good coach. Not great, but solid, so I don't know why you'd suggest differently.
Bills have a nice defense. 49ers are awful ... but they only lost 12-9 on the road to a Seahawks team that GooooMarquette is painting as fearsome.
You can only play who is on your schedule. No apologies necessary. It will be fun to see how the Panthers do the next two weeks stepping up from Hoyer and Taylor to Brees and Brady the next 2 weeks.
I'm not wishing injuries on anyone. If that's how you read it, that wasn't my intention.
Rivera is a mediocre coach, at best. Four losing records in six seasons. Record of 20-23 in one-possession games.
Hard to say how good the Bills' defense is when you consider they've matched up against two of the most inept offenses in the league. Next two games are against Denver and Atlanta, so we'll see.
The Panthers don't need to apologize for their schedule, but fans probably shouldn't be crowing over a 2-0 mark given the quality of their opponents.
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I'm not wishing injuries on anyone. If that's how you read it, that wasn't my intention.
Rivera is a mediocre coach, at best. Four losing records in six seasons. Record of 20-23 in one-possession games.
Hard to say how good the Bills' defense is when you consider they've matched up against two of the most inept offenses in the league. Next two games are against Denver and Atlanta, so we'll see.
The Panthers don't need to apologize for their schedule, but fans probably shouldn't be crowing over a 2-0 mark given the quality of their opponents.
Obviously, I'm a fan, and so I am biased. Still, for a fan, I think I am more realistic than most.
I do not think the Panthers' offense is "inept." I think they had a bad game against an athletic, pretty talented defense coached by a guy (ex-Panthers defensive coordinator) who knows the Panthers better than anybody else in the league. And Cam Newton threw only 2 passes in the preseason and is still trying to find his stride after offseason shoulder surgery. He missed a wide-open receiver for a TD in each of the first 2 games; by Week 4 or 5 (hopefully Week 3!) he won't be missing that pass.
Rivera was a rookie coach in 2011; it took him a couple of years to find his voice and his style, and it took the Panthers a couple of years to draft and trade for some talent. Saying that was all on Rivera would be like saying Wojo's first two years were all on him. Rivera went 12-4 in his third season, starting a stretch in which the Panthers went 34-13-1 over the next 3 seasons, with 3 division titles and a trip to the Super Bowl. Bill Belichick, at 36-12, was the only coach with a better record during that time. To a man, Panthers players credited Rivera's calm demeanor and willingness to adapt with the team's improvement. The Panthers have had just about no discord in the locker room during Rivera's entire time here.
As you noted, the Panthers suffered a spate of injuries last season, including to the previous season's MVP as well as to the best linebacker in football. Their idiot GM let a shut-down corner leave as a free agent. Their offensive line was ravaged by injuries; by midseason, they were playing third-stringers at center and tackle, and an already banged-up Newton was running for his life. If you want to hold the coach responsible for all of that, that's your prerogative.
Yeah, I was guilty of "crowing" after a 2-0 start because I'm a dopey fan. We'll learn a lot more about the Panthers the next two weeks. The Saints can't play defense but they can move the football, so we'll see if the Panthers can rack up the points on O while holding Brees & Co. at bay. The following week, my boyz visit New England, and that will be a supreme challenge.
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I think people are just getting tired of bad football. I love to see a great defense on the field, but we see more inept offenses than good defenses.
GB did not play great defense to hold Seattle to 9 points. It was the terrible Seattle offense that held the Seahawks to 9 points. The same inept offense that could only score 12 points at home against SF. A good offense rolled through GB's defense at will on Sunday night. They could have scored 60 if they had to. The next juggernaut offense they play scores fewer points than a lot of soccer teams
The Giants have scored one TD in two games against two very, very average defenses. That is what is driving people away from the NFL.
There's a league-wide issue with OL play right now and that is a direct contributor to poor offensive play.
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I think people are just getting tired of bad football. I love to see a great defense on the field, but we see more inept offenses than good defenses.
GB did not play great defense to hold Seattle to 9 points. It was the terrible Seattle offense that held the Seahawks to 9 points. The same inept offense that could only score 12 points at home against SF. A good offense rolled through GB's defense at will on Sunday night. They could have scored 60 if they had to. The next juggernaut offense they play scores fewer points than a lot of soccer teams
The Giants have scored one TD in two games against two very, very average defenses. That is what is driving people away from the NFL.
What we need is more cowbell then eyn'a?
Go back over the past seasons since 1998. Right now, avg. per team game is 20.1. In 2001 it was 20.2. The range has been 20.1-23.4. Given the season is only 2 games old, this statement is at best oversimplification. At worst, it's very short sighted. I know what he's hoping is not the cause. When trying to realize what is causing the drop in a business's customer base, hoping what isn't causing it will get you fired or losing your shorts. Everything is on the table and as a business owner, one better not approach this with eyes wide shut.
Cleveland seemed to have the best approach thus far. Time will tell if both sides maintain their positions, but bottom line, who's in charge here? If the owners allow the inmates to run the asylum, well, lets see how this plays out. It's above my pay grade and one of the reasons I'm not an owner of an NFL team ;D
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/scoring.htm
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What we need is more cowbell then eyn'a?
Go back over the past seasons since 1998. Right now, avg. per team game is 20.1. In 2001 it was 20.2. The range has been 20.1-23.4. Given the season is only 2 games old, this statement is at best oversimplification. At worst, it's very short sighted. I know what he's hoping is not the cause. When trying to realize what is causing the drop in a business's customer base, hoping what isn't causing it will get you fired or losing your shorts. Everything is on the table and as a business owner, one better not approach this with eyes wide shut.
Cleveland seemed to have the best approach thus far. Time will tell if both sides maintain their positions, but bottom line, who's in charge here? If the owners allow the inmates to run the asylum, well, lets see how this plays out. It's above my pay grade and one of the reasons I'm not an owner of an NFL team ;D
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/scoring.htm
LOL at the idea that people protesting racism are the reason the NFL is losing viewers/customers. If that's REALLY the reason people have stopped participating, our society/country is seriously f'ed
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What we need is more cowbell then eyn'a?
Go back over the past seasons since 1998. Right now, avg. per team game is 20.1. In 2001 it was 20.2. The range has been 20.1-23.4. Given the season is only 2 games old, this statement is at best oversimplification. At worst, it's very short sighted. I know what he's hoping is not the cause. When trying to realize what is causing the drop in a business's customer base, hoping what isn't causing it will get you fired or losing your shorts. Everything is on the table and as a business owner, one better not approach this with eyes wide shut.
Cleveland seemed to have the best approach thus far. Time will tell if both sides maintain their positions, but bottom line, who's in charge here? If the owners allow the inmates to run the asylum, well, lets see how this plays out. It's above my pay grade and one of the reasons I'm not an owner of an NFL team ;D
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/scoring.htm
So we are going to blame someone for kneeling for the anthem who's not in the league any longer?
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So we are going to blame someone for kneeling for the anthem who's not in the league any longer?
Now where did I say that anywhere within my text? But as long as you brought it up-somewhat. But it's not the only reason. It sure ain't the decrease in offense. How would the people who attended those lower attended games know the score was going to be 9-3 or whatever?
If I am the owner of a business, I do not leave anything off the table. This(drop in attendance and ratings) is a little more complex than kneeling, raising a fist, whatever, but that may have been the spark. Let's look at it this way however-attendance last year fell for the first time in 4 years. A few things came in to play-the presidential debates and then what's his name sitting. Yes there are other things-too many commercials, steep ticket prices, too many televised games. There is a pink elephant in the room however-I think what's his name's protest on the NFL's dime was the last straw
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Now where did I say that anywhere within my text? But as long as you brought it up-somewhat. But it's not the only reason. It sure ain't the decrease in offense. How would the people who attended those lower attended games know the score was going to be 9-3 or whatever?
If I am the owner of a business, I do not leave anything off the table. This(drop in attendance and ratings) is a little more complex than kneeling, raising a fist, whatever, but that may have been the spark. Let's look at it this way however-attendance last year fell for the first time in 4 years. A few things came in to play-the presidential debates and then what's his name sitting. Yes there are other things-too many commercials, steep ticket prices, too many televised games. There is a pink elephant in the room however-I think what's his name's protest on the NFL's dime was the last straw
It had very little to do with it. Most people still watch. They just aren't watching as much because the game is poor.
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/9/19/16332762/watchability-fun-football-boring-quality-of-play
"In the past five years of the NFL, offenses have reached unprecedented levels of scoring, quarterbacks have become more accurate than ever, turnovers have plummeted—and yet, it’s not fun. If you simply read the statistical markers, it would seem like every offense was as exciting as the pub scene from Inglourious Basterds. Sacks and interceptions hit all-time lows last year, but that just means that quarterbacks are getting rid of the ball quicker and opting for shorter, safer targets. We have reached one of the most frustrating eras in football history. Everything is fine and it doesn’t look good."
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"Ratings dipped again on Sunday. Sunday Night Football’s Packers-Falcons game was down 8 percent from last season and 23 percent from 2015. The curious thing about these dips is that the number of people viewing games is not down, but the amount of time they’re watching for is. Unless “only watching part of a game” is a new form of political boycott, that reasoning for the ratings drop doesn’t hold much water."
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LOL at the idea that people protesting racism are the reason the NFL is losing viewers/customers. If that's REALLY the reason people have stopped participating, our society/country is seriously f'ed
You did read my whole entry, right? Some of you just can't help yourselves. No, that's Not REALLY the REASON...this ain't a one trick pony as I mentioned
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It had very little to do with it. Most people still watch. They just aren't watching as much because the game is poor.
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/9/19/16332762/watchability-fun-football-boring-quality-of-play
"In the past five years of the NFL, offenses have reached unprecedented levels of scoring, quarterbacks have become more accurate than ever, turnovers have plummeted—and yet, it’s not fun. If you simply read the statistical markers, it would seem like every offense was as exciting as the pub scene from Inglourious Basterds. Sacks and interceptions hit all-time lows last year, but that just means that quarterbacks are getting rid of the ball quicker and opting for shorter, safer targets. We have reached one of the most frustrating eras in football history. Everything is fine and it doesn’t look good."
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"Ratings dipped again on Sunday. Sunday Night Football’s Packers-Falcons game was down 8 percent from last season and 23 percent from 2015. The curious thing about these dips is that the number of people viewing games is not down, but the amount of time they’re watching for is. Unless “only watching part of a game” is a new form of political boycott, that reasoning for the ratings drop doesn’t hold much water."
It IS bad football. Points are at the lowest level in 25 years. Points have dropped over 14% in just the last 5 years alone.
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It IS bad football. Points are at the lowest level in 25 years. Points have dropped over 14% in just the last 5 years alone.
Yep. Damn Kaepernick.
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It had very little to do with it. Most people still watch. They just aren't watching as much because the game is poor.
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/9/19/16332762/watchability-fun-football-boring-quality-of-play
"In the past five years of the NFL, offenses have reached unprecedented levels of scoring, quarterbacks have become more accurate than ever, turnovers have plummeted—and yet, it’s not fun. If you simply read the statistical markers, it would seem like every offense was as exciting as the pub scene from Inglourious Basterds. Sacks and interceptions hit all-time lows last year, but that just means that quarterbacks are getting rid of the ball quicker and opting for shorter, safer targets. We have reached one of the most frustrating eras in football history. Everything is fine and it doesn’t look good."
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"Ratings dipped again on Sunday. Sunday Night Football’s Packers-Falcons game was down 8 percent from last season and 23 percent from 2015. The curious thing about these dips is that the number of people viewing games is not down, but the amount of time they’re watching for is. Unless “only watching part of a game” is a new form of political boycott, that reasoning for the ratings drop doesn’t hold much water."
This scene was one of my favorite pieces of cinema in any movie.
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You did read my whole entry, right? Some of you just can't help yourselves. No, that's Not REALLY the REASON...this ain't a one trick pony as I mentioned
I'm going to be honest with you. You put a lot of superfluous crap in your posts. So when you say something like "I know what he's hoping is not the cause," what exactly do you mean by that? How are we supposed to interpret that if you don't spell it out?
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I'm going to be honest with you. You put a lot of superfluous crap in your posts. So when you say something like "I know what he's hoping is not the cause," what exactly do you mean by that? How are we supposed to interpret that if you don't spell it out?
"Superfluous crap" is your term, not mine. You're a smart guy, figure it out, but it's just one of the quite a few things I mentioned. Why hone in on JUST that. That is what I was questioning. Someone always has to bring up the, as you would put it when it suits you, "victim" card
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"Superfluous crap" is your term, not mine. You're a smart guy, figure it out, but it's just one of the quite a few things I mentioned. Why hone in on JUST that. That is what I was questioning. Someone always has to bring up the, as you would put it when it suits you, "victim" card
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-S3ABmxhMHxY/TqoTPHKJmxI/AAAAAAAACIU/tVi6xjYUloE/s1600/Irony_Meter.gif)
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Correlation or causation?
The NFL must be unwatchable because this NFL thread is unreadable.
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You did read my whole entry, right? Some of you just can't help yourselves. No, that's Not REALLY the REASON...this ain't a one trick pony as I mentioned
Uh...
You make a stance that scoring isn't the reason. Then make a claim that you have to look at every possible reason. Then state Cleveland is doing things the correct way...
You blatantly imply what the major problem is and take a stance on it. You then go on to talk about "inmates" running things. Don't have to have esp to figure out what you're thinking
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JD Power survey
Anthem protests number 1 reason people are watching fewer football games. 30% giving that reason. Couple that with CBS study saying protests are a contributing factor, makes you wonder why so many are afraid to admit this is part of it. Not all of it, but part of it.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20171611/national-anthem-protests-no-1-reason-viewers-tuned-nfl-games
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/nfl-tv-ratings-slide-worries-wall-street-1041187
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JD Power survey
Anthem protests number 1 reason people are watching fewer football games. 30% giving that reason. Couple that with CBS study saying protests are a contributing factor, makes you wonder why so many are afraid to admit this is part of it. Not all of it, but part of it.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20171611/national-anthem-protests-no-1-reason-viewers-tuned-nfl-games
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/nfl-tv-ratings-slide-worries-wall-street-1041187
Because a lot of evidence suggests that the same number of people are watching. They are simply watching less.
That's not much of a boycott.
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JD Power survey
Anthem protests number 1 reason people are watching fewer football games. 30% giving that reason. Couple that with CBS study saying protests are a contributing factor, makes you wonder why so many are afraid to admit this is part of it. Not all of it, but part of it.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20171611/national-anthem-protests-no-1-reason-viewers-tuned-nfl-games
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/nfl-tv-ratings-slide-worries-wall-street-1041187
I'd like to see the Venn diagram between those offended by peaceful protests of racism and those who believe racism doesn't exist
Also be interesting to see those poll results sorted by age
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I'd like to see the Venn diagram between those offended by peaceful protests of racism and those who believe racism doesn't exist
Also be interesting to see those poll results sorted by age
It also be interesting to see the reasons behind a boycott....those because Kap knelt and those that are pissed that Kap doesn't have a job. At this point, I'd guess it's close to a 50-50 split
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JD Power survey
Anthem protests number 1 reason people are watching fewer football games. 30% giving that reason. Couple that with CBS study saying protests are a contributing factor, makes you wonder why so many are afraid to admit this is part of it. Not all of it, but part of it.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20171611/national-anthem-protests-no-1-reason-viewers-tuned-nfl-games
This poll has been well-eviscerated.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/07/28/espn-distorts-analysis-of-poll-question-regarding-nfl-viewing-habits/
https://www.sbnation.com/2017/7/27/16050800/nfl-viewership-national-anthem-protests-jd-power-survey-2017
http://deadspin.com/how-to-mangle-a-survey-by-darren-rovell-1797307721
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This poll has been well-eviscerated.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/07/28/espn-distorts-analysis-of-poll-question-regarding-nfl-viewing-habits/
https://www.sbnation.com/2017/7/27/16050800/nfl-viewership-national-anthem-protests-jd-power-survey-2017
http://deadspin.com/how-to-mangle-a-survey-by-darren-rovell-1797307721
Oh snap!
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Changing gears a bit...
Can anyone explain to me the economics/finances behind Arthur Blank being able to charge so little for his concessions? It isn't just the Falcons, either. He made it so that any event held there would have the same pricing.
Are the tickets to events there just more expensive to make up the difference? It's pretty baffling to me.
I can certainly say that concession prices are a big barrier to me of going to most events at NFL, etc stadiums.
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Changing gears a bit...
Can anyone explain to me the economics/finances behind Arthur Blank being able to charge so little for his concessions? It isn't just the Falcons, either. He made it so that any event held there would have the same pricing.
Are the tickets to events there just more expensive to make up the difference? It's pretty baffling to me.
I can certainly say that concession prices are a big barrier to me of going to most events at NFL, etc stadiums.
I think there's a couple of things at play. It's the south, where I personally think it's easier to do something like this (weak comparison on my part, but Masters concession prices as an example). I think having more self service kiosks helps drive down costs. Looking to sell higher volume helps greatly (if that's a goal, which I'm sure it is). Falcons still offer "high end" eating options as well, at higher prices.
I think Blank is being progressive too, Atlanta isn't a pro sports town, it makes for good publicity, and may encourage more families to come out.
Years ago I gave up eating/drinking at Soldier Field, between the cost and overall quality (lack there of) in the food. It's awful.
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Oh snap!
Not sure chicos can admit he was wrong.
Archie Bunker never could admit it, either.
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Who knew, Rams/Niners best game of the year.
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Very entertaining game. Goff looks pretty good. Too bad he wasted a year under Jeff Fischer.
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Because a lot of evidence suggests that the same number of people are watching. They are simply watching less.
That's not much of a boycott.
Can you point to this lot of evidence?
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It also be interesting to see the reasons behind a boycott....those because Kap knelt and those that are pissed that Kap doesn't have a job. At this point, I'd guess it's close to a 50-50 split
According to the data, it's about 72-28. Those upset at those not standing for national anthem, 72. Those upset Kap doesn't have a job, 28%.
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This poll has been well-eviscerated.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/07/28/espn-distorts-analysis-of-poll-question-regarding-nfl-viewing-habits/
https://www.sbnation.com/2017/7/27/16050800/nfl-viewership-national-anthem-protests-jd-power-survey-2017
http://deadspin.com/how-to-mangle-a-survey-by-darren-rovell-1797307721
Actually what has been eviscerated is how ESPN portrayed the poll. The poll itself isn't a problem by and large. JD Power clearly states some fans watch more football, ESPN chose not to report that. JD Power states SOME fans watch less for a variety of reasons, including the protests being the largest indicator of those that stated they watch less.
Here is the actual results, no interpretation by the media. https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=http://images.info.jdpa.com/Web/JDPower/%257B2245cfb1-94bd-4866-bcb9-f609452c9476%257D_SportsInsights_ElectionAndNFL_072617.pdf
This is all we've been saying. There are many factors. Election, politics, hurricanes, bad football, domestic violence, Peyton Manning retiring, Tom Brady suspensions, protests.
There are some members here at MUSCOOP that say there is NO IMPACT, ZERO, by the protests. This is wrong, on every intellectual level, but it seems to be more of a political or emotional response for them. For their statements to be true, not one person in this country watched less football because of these protests. Not one person canceled NFL Game Pass because of, or canceled Sunday Ticket. To further believe this, CBS Sports Chairman who knows more about football than everyone here combined, is wrong with his study. The Denver Post is wrong with theirs. Seton Hall is wrong with theirs. And the countless others that have been done.
It wasn't lost on me the SB Nation article you linked where the headline reads "No, NFL viewership wasn't down because of anthem protests". Then one reads the article and the author admits that some NFL viewership is down because of the protests.
Are some of you going to continue to say it has zero impact? For those saying the protests are the only reason, they are equally foolhardy. There are a plethora of reasons, and the protests are just one of them.
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Has anyone said the protests have had zero impact?
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Has anyone said the protests have had zero impact?
Not really sure if anyone has said this, but many here intimate that it is a non-issue completely. All I've been saying is that if one ignores the protest altogether, they are being partisan, shortsighted, and would make for poor business-people
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Well, I'm sure this will all go much better after tonight ::)
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President Donald Trump criticized NFL players who lodge protests during the pregame national anthem, saying Friday night that he wished those players would be released and encouraging fans who are offended to walk out of stadiums.
Speaking at a political rally in Huntsville, Alabama, Trump said: "Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, 'Get that son of a b---- off the field right now. Out. He's fired! He's fired!"
Trump said the protests, which became public last year when then-San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick knelt for the national anthem during a preseason game, are "hurting the game."
Trump didn't mention Kaepernick or any other NFL player specifically during the speech.
Kaepernick opted out of his contract with the 49ers during the offseason. He has not been signed by a new team since then. Several players have continued to protest during the anthem this season.
"The only thing you could do better," Trump said, "is if you see it, even if it's just one player, leave the stadium. I guarantee things will stop. Things will stop. Just pick up and leave. Pick up and leave. Not the same game anymore, anyway."
Trump went on to say referees are "ruining the game" by calling 15-yard penalties for "beautiful" tackles. He also said that NFL ratings are down "massively, massively," because people prefer watching him. NFL ratings dropped eight percent in 2016, as compared to 2015.
An NFL spokesman did not immediately respond to a request for comment on what Trump said.
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President Donald Trump criticized NFL players who lodge protests during the pregame national anthem, saying Friday night that he wished those players would be released and encouraging fans who are offended to walk out of stadiums.
Speaking at a political rally in Huntsville, Alabama, Trump said: "Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, 'Get that son of a b---- off the field right now. Out. He's fired! He's fired!"
Trump said the protests, which became public last year when then-San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick knelt for the national anthem during a preseason game, are "hurting the game."
Trump didn't mention Kaepernick or any other NFL player specifically during the speech.
Kaepernick opted out of his contract with the 49ers during the offseason. He has not been signed by a new team since then. Several players have continued to protest during the anthem this season.
"The only thing you could do better," Trump said, "is if you see it, even if it's just one player, leave the stadium. I guarantee things will stop. Things will stop. Just pick up and leave. Pick up and leave. Not the same game anymore, anyway."
Trump went on to say referees are "ruining the game" by calling 15-yard penalties for "beautiful" tackles. He also said that NFL ratings are down "massively, massively," because people prefer watching him. NFL ratings dropped eight percent in 2016, as compared to 2015.
An NFL spokesman did not immediately respond to a request for comment on what Trump said.
That will help.
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That will help.
No kidding. There will likely be an increase in the number of kneelers tomorrow. Good job Mr. President!
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Fat old man who never strapped on a helmet thinks NFL players are soft.
President... or sports talk radio caller?
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No kidding. There will likely be an increase in the number of kneelers tomorrow. Good job Mr. President!
If he only showed this much disdain for white supremecists...
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After reading Lebron's tweet this morning, I have moved him ahead of Kareem and MJ as the greatest of all time.
He is my new hero.
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President Donald Trump criticized NFL players who lodge protests during the pregame national anthem, saying Friday night that he wished those players would be released and encouraging fans who are offended to walk out of stadiums.
This just shows how out of touch the old moron is. First, there's no pro team in Alabama for the crowd to walk out on. Second, no one is going to pay $172/seat to walk out after the national anthem. Seriously, there should be some sort of test to be president, because that moron is failing on every level. Not to mention he swore an oath to uphold the Constitution and is now attacking people who exercise a Constitutionally protected right, which is a blatant violation of his Oath of Office.
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Oddly quiet from the anti-Kaep camp...
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What's about those thousands of fans blind drunk, walking into the stadium, wearing hats, taking a piss, or buying a hotdog during the anthem, so some FRACKIN RESPECT.
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https://twitter.com/koopa_kinte/status/911715150507454464
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First mlb player took a knee today. Wonder what tomorrow will look like
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First mlb player took a knee today. Wonder what tomorrow will look like
The kid was born on a military base where his dad served. He has spoken out in the past about his patriotism and the importance of the 4th of July.
His action was a response to the tweeting frenzy by our racist pig of a leader.
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Steve Kerr pretty much said it best ... we have a president who supports free speech when it advocates for white supremacism, but opposes free speech when it advocates for racial justice.
By the way, anyone still sticking to the "Kaepernick' protests haven't had an impact" narrative?
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Did the owner standing in protest with the players inspire the Jags?
It's the 3rd quarter and the Ravens have been out-gained by 250+ yards.
BY THE JAGS :-[
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Looks like the Ravens never got up after taking their knee.
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How very Bears.
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How very Bears.
Wonder if he took a knee earlier. That was an amazingly dumb play. Looked like Leon Lett.
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How very Bears.
I didn't know the rule. Neither did the refs!
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Forget it
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Back to football (though i agree with Chitown and appreciate him being direct in his POV rather than being purposely vague and deflecting in his statements because they aren't directly defensible) that was a bad way for Detroit to lose that game. That's one of those plays that will probably lead to a rule change. As a Vikes fan i'm happy for that L but you must be freaking out Tower.
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Glennon sure tried to lose that game. One bad pick and almost threw a second late in the game. Really coulda used that Cohen TD, especially since Stefon Diggs is chillin on my bench...
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Boo birds in GB?
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Ok, look, a memory hole opened up.
I likely didn't get everything political .. move along, nothing to see here. Just football.
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Ok, look, a memory hole opened up.
I likely didn't get everything political .. move along, nothing to see here. Just football.
How 'bout dem Bears! (Yes, I'm a Packers fan but that was fun.)
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Seahawks look terrible, that's not a good football team through 3 weeks.
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I wasn't watching, but the Lions apparently found a new way to lose. Keeping the tradition alive.
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Seahawks look terrible, that's not a good football team through 3 weeks.
Same with my Panthers. Mrs. 82 and I went to the game today and were rewarded with horrible play, especially from our quarterback. I'm a big Cam fan, and anybody can have a bad day, but that was really awful today. The D was no thrill, either.
Maybe a few Panthers should have sat down for the national anthem, as 10 or so Saints did.
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Tony Romo is by far the best announcer.
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Oh, look, more off-field football posts disappeared.
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Tony Romo is by far the best announcer.
1st time I heard him and he was outstanding. Ranks with the best.
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Tony Romo is by far the best announcer.
Agreed. Just loved the way he scanned the defense literally calling what he saw as if he was lining up behind center. Fantastic.
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And props to some of the Packer kids. Jones, King, Martinez, GMo.
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Tony Romo is by far the best announcer.
Here's another thing. I know that Romo played his entire career for the 'Boys. And I loved to hate him while he did. But as a kid in the backyard in Burlington you know he had a beautiful gold helmet on. Nance was very careful to say that he grew up halfway between Green Bay and Chicago. I could almost hear both of them SMILE. 8-)
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Here's another thing. I know that Romo played his entire career for the 'Boys. And I loved to hate him while he did. But as a kid in the backyard in Burlington you know he had a beautiful gold helmet on. Nance was very careful to say that he grew up halfway between Green Bay and Chicago. I could almost hear both of them SMILE. 8-)
I went to a camp in Burlington for years. The property of the camp was right next to Burlington high school, so one day we go on the high schools football stadium to kick some field goals and what not.
So after a while, the groundskeeper for the school came up to us and we though we were about to be told off. Turns out he was just coming out to give us Tony Romo autographed posters, we missed him by one day. Theres also a restraunt there called Fred's where theres tons of Romo high school stuff covering the walls of the place.
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The president condemns a handful of NFL players for refusing to stand during the anthem. Two days later, nearly 200 players protest by either kneeling, sitting, raising a fist or simply staying in the locker room during the anthem.
And people say he's not a leader!
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Tony Romo is by far the best announcer.
Agreed. Really great job. Honestly, for most of the game I didn't realize who the announcer was, but kept thinking, man this guy is good and really knows his stuff. What a refreshing change to have someone really pointing out the nuances of every play.
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The president condemns a handful of NFL players for refusing to stand during the anthem. Two days later, nearly 200 players protest by either kneeling, sitting, raising a fist or simply staying in the locker room during the anthem.
And people say he's not a leader!
Yet one of the over 1,800 players who stood sent the loudest message. Villanuena is now among the NFL leaders in jersey sales.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wMxJ1NSMzLw/hqdefault.jpg)
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Big win for the Bears yesterday. The D played well and special teams recovered a fumble and blocked a FG (that led to an all-time bone-headed play).
For the Bears' offense to have success, they need to run the ball. They have a sold o-line (especially when healthy) and Howard and Cohen are by far their two best players offensively. Credit Loggains for his gameplan and the Bears for executing. Honestly, I kept waiting for things to fall apart and for Pittsburgh to wake up. I did not see this win coming. Should be a fun one in Lambeau on Thursday!
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Yet one of the over 1,800 players who stood sent the loudest message. Villanuena is now among the NFL leaders in jersey sales.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wMxJ1NSMzLw/hqdefault.jpg)
What is also interesting, is that he didn't tell anyone he was going to do this. He was an instrumental part of the decision to not have anyone protest on the sideline, but instead keep everyone in the tunnel. Kind of a weird scenario.
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What is also interesting, is that he didn't tell anyone he was going to do this. He was an instrumental part of the decision to not have anyone protest on the sideline, but instead keep everyone in the tunnel. Kind of a weird scenario.
What's your source on that?
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Yet one of the over 1,800 players who stood sent the loudest message. Villanuena is now among the NFL leaders in jersey sales.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wMxJ1NSMzLw/hqdefault.jpg)
I truly think it was wonderful that he did this.
He wasn't cowed by his teammates. He used his mind and heart to do what he felt was right.
It's beautifully American, and I'm proud of him.
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What's your source on that?
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20810701/pittsburgh-steelers-surprised-alejandro-villanueva-move (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20810701/pittsburgh-steelers-surprised-alejandro-villanueva-move)
"The starting left tackle was a key figure in the team's protest planning because of his background. Players wanted to accommodate Villanueva, who expressed during their 30-minute session that he didn't want to be singled out, the source said. Moving the protest off the field entirely was a way to keep solidarity without isolating an individual."
We'll never know how the planning conversations went, but it kind of creates a tough situation for everybody if Villanueva was a part of the initial agreement to stay in the locker room/tunnel and then had a change of heart at the last second. If he wasn't an integral part of those conversations and the agreement to stay in the tunnel, well then that clearly undermines the value of the whole expression from the Steelers.
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What's your source on that?
Quotes from players including James Harrison and a few other players was that they decided to go to the locker room route because some had expressed not wanting to make it about themselves and have them stand out, amongst them was Villanuena according to the players.
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2017/09/25/steelers-coach-mike-tomlin-raps-alejandro-villanueva-for-standing-for-national-anthem.html (http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2017/09/25/steelers-coach-mike-tomlin-raps-alejandro-villanueva-for-standing-for-national-anthem.html)
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20810701/pittsburgh-steelers-surprised-alejandro-villanueva-move (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20810701/pittsburgh-steelers-surprised-alejandro-villanueva-move)
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http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20810701/pittsburgh-steelers-surprised-alejandro-villanueva-move (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20810701/pittsburgh-steelers-surprised-alejandro-villanueva-move)
"The starting left tackle was a key figure in the team's protest planning because of his background. Players wanted to accommodate Villanueva, who expressed during their 30-minute session that he didn't want to be singled out, the source said. Moving the protest off the field entirely was a way to keep solidarity without isolating an individual."
We'll never know how the planning conversations went, but it kind of creates a tough situation for everybody if Villanueva was a part of the initial agreement to stay in the locker room/tunnel and then had a change of heart at the last second. If he wasn't an integral part of those conversations and the agreement to stay in the tunnel, well then that clearly undermines the value of the whole expression from the Steelers.
Based on some of the quotes I've seen, it sounds like the team was not united in terms of how they would approach things and by default elected just to not come out of the locker room, but there are conflicting player quotes as to whether or not Villanueva was "exempted from" the stay in the locker room plan.
Dude's got a Bronze star and is a Ranger, I'm assuming he knows how to team and was true to his word. I'm assuming this gets hammered out this week between him and his teammates.
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What's your source on that?
Others have shared some of the links to it, pretty widely reported. Not saying there was anything nefarious going on, just a weird overall scenario.
My guess, is he was ok with the plan from the team and had a last minute change of heart and felt he needed to be out there. Good for him. Do what you think is right.
I was just highlighting that this is a weird overall story.
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Others have shared some of the links to it, pretty widely reported. Not saying there was anything nefarious going on, just a weird overall scenario.
My guess, is he was ok with the plan from the team and had a last minute change of heart and felt he needed to be out there. Good for him. Do what you think is right.
I was just highlighting that this is a weird overall story.
I didn't mean to make it sound like I was questioning you. Just hadn't seen it reported that way. Upon reading the report, my first instinct was also to think that he made a last-second decision.
That said, I feel like the players only meeting should have consisted of the players simply asking Villanueva what to do as a team to show unity. Who knows? Maybe they did.
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I didn't mean to make it sound like I was questioning you. Just hadn't seen it reported that way. Upon reading the report, my first instinct was also to think that he made a last-second decision.
That said, I feel like the players only meeting should have consisted of the players simply asking Villanueva what to do as a team to show unity. Who knows? Maybe they did.
Don't know that we'll ever know. It sounds like there was a lot of differing opinions in the players only meeting. I'm sure its a case of message misalignment and they'll resolve it.
But this is an example of how this form of protest can be divisive in of itself. Too much time is spent arguing about the act of protest and not nearly enough time around what was the original object of the protest.
One further question, do we even know what the objects of the protest are any more? Rightly or wrongly, we at least knew what Kaep was protesting (police brutality and institutional racism). Players have seemingly joined in that message, until Trump opened his stupid mouth to call for the removal of players who protest. So were yesterday's protests against Trump, for free speech, against brutality/racism, all of it, none of it?
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I suspect -- actually, "know" is probably a more appropriate word choice -- that my position on this is at odds with most with whom I generally share political beliefs. I am not "offended" by the protests. I do not automatically have contempt for the protesters. I actually believe that the vast majority of them love their country deeply and respect and honor the flag. I don't think taking a knee during the National Anthem changes that. While I don't necessarily see some of issues leading to the protests in the same way, I respect the right to protest. Also, while it may not be the intention of the protesters, I note that in many contexts kneeling is viewed as a very reverent posture. As I look at many of the protesters, I don't necessary see a lack of reverence. Frankly, quite the contrary. I see people who love their country but are very troubled by some of what they see happening. While I will still stand for the Anthem and place my hand over my heart, I don't necessarily disagree with them in many respects. Truth be told, I'd probably have a lower opinion of the protesters if they remained standing but turned their backs on the flag.
On many occasions I've seen people on the right complain about all the "outrage" that is manufactured on the left. As someone who could fairly be described as right-leaning, the outrage over athletes (and others) who in my opinion are fairly solemnly and reverentially protesting during the National Anthem is more disturbing than the protest itself.
Just my opinion. YMMV
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I suspect -- actually, "know" is probably a more appropriate word choice -- that my position on this is at odds with most with whom I generally share political beliefs. I am not "offended" by the protests. I do not automatically have contempt for the protesters. I actually believe that the vast majority of them love their country deeply and respect and honor the flag. I don't think taking a knee during the National Anthem changes that. While I don't necessarily see some of issues leading to the protests in the same way, I respect the right to protest. Also, while it may not be the intention of the protesters, I note that in many contexts kneeling is viewed as a very reverent posture. As I look at many of the protesters, I don't necessary see a lack of reverence. Frankly, quite the contrary. I see people who love their country but are very troubled by some of what they see happening. While I will still stand for the Anthem and place my hand over my heart, I don't necessarily disagree with them in many respects. Truth be told, I'd probably have a lower opinion of the protesters if they remained standing but turned their backs on the flag.
On many occasions I've seen people on the right complain about all the "outrage" that is manufactured on the left. As someone who could fairly be described as right-leaning, the outrage over athletes (and others) who in my opinion are fairly solemnly and reverentially protesting during the National Anthem is more disturbing than the protest itself.
Just my opinion. YMMV
Very well said.
I'd suggest anyone offended take a look at some of the photos of yesterday's protests. Those guys aren't acting disrespectfully, IMO. Many have their hands over their hearts or heads bowed. Nearly all are displaying unity.
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I suspect -- actually, "know" is probably a more appropriate word choice -- that my position on this is at odds with most with whom I generally share political beliefs. I am not "offended" by the protests. I do not automatically have contempt for the protesters. I actually believe that the vast majority of them love their country deeply and respect and honor the flag. I don't think taking a knee during the National Anthem changes that. While I don't necessarily see some of issues leading to the protests in the same way, I respect the right to protest. Also, while it may not be the intention of the protesters, I note that in many contexts kneeling is viewed as a very reverent posture. As I look at many of the protesters, I don't necessary see a lack of reverence. Frankly, quite the contrary. I see people who love their country but are very troubled by some of what they see happening. While I will still stand for the Anthem and place my hand over my heart, I don't necessarily disagree with them in many respects. Truth be told, I'd probably have a lower opinion of the protesters if they remained standing but turned their backs on the flag.
On many occasions I've seen people on the right complain about all the "outrage" that is manufactured on the left. As someone who could fairly be described as right-leaning, the outrage over athletes (and others) who in my opinion are fairly solemnly and reverentially protesting during the National Anthem is more disturbing than the protest itself.
Just my opinion. YMMV
I agree with this. I understand what the athletes are doing but I also understand why some may be offended(veterans especially). However, I don't understand how you can be offended enough to demand someone be silenced, and I also think the majority of the people that are offended that deep are also exhibiting so called "snowflake" behavior. The right's outrage over these protests are just as ridiculous as the left's silencing of controversial voices because of not being "PC". Nothing drives me nuts more than hypocrisy.
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One other thing, I'd much rather someone stand with a raised fist or kneel during the anthem than sit. What am I missing that kneeling is so terrible?
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One further question, do we even know what the objects of the protest are any more? Rightly or wrongly, we at least knew what Kaep was protesting (police brutality and institutional racism). Players have seemingly joined in that message, until Trump opened his stupid mouth to call for the removal of players who protest. So were yesterday's protests against Trump, for free speech, against brutality/racism, all of it, none of it?
I don't know, of course, but my vote would be for "all of it" - or at least different things for different protesters, many likely feeling they were addressing multiple topics.
For about a year, most players were content to let a few do the protesting. But then when Trump came out and ripped NFL players far more forcefully than he ever has condemned white supremacists, nearly 200 players decided to join. I think it was both to stand with their brothers in a protest against institutional racism and to tell Trump where to stick his executive order pen.
Remember, not only did Trump criticize those who exercise their freedom of speech, but he also basically said: "I want football to go back to the time where guys were getting crippled and even more concussed than now, because my entertainment is more important than the athletes' lives."
He also called them SOBs. Very presidential.
One interesting reaction came from Tom Brady, who had been a vocal Trump supporter and even called Trump a "friend":
"I certainly disagree with what he said and thought it was just divisive."
Nobody must have read that to Trump ... although Brady is probably the wrong color to get a tweet-slam from Trump on this issue.
An interesting aside to all of this is that Michael Jordan - who rarely made political comments as a player, and occasionally was criticized by black players, civil-rights leaders, etc, for not taking stands on racial issues - came out Sunday night against Trump and for athletes:
“One of the fundamental rights this country is founded on was freedom of speech, and we have a long tradition of nonviolent, peaceful protest. Those who exercise the right to peacefully express themselves should not be demonized or ostracized. At a time of increasing divisiveness and hate in this country, we should be looking for ways to work together and support each other and not create more division. I support Commissioner Adam Silver, the NBA, its players and all those who wish to exercise their right to free speech.”
Jordan, who worried about his "brand" when he was a player, theoretically has even more to lose now. He owns an NBA team in a southern market that sometimes has trouble drawing crowds, he runs a very popular clothing brand, and he remains a well-compensated pitchman.
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well goodell better clarify the rules because what is happening(kneeling, raised fists, staying in locker room...) is against NFL rules.
http://wgntv.com/2017/09/25/do-nfl-rules-require-players-to-stand-during-the-national-anthem/
but tebow took A LOT of crap when he kneeled?
the dallas cowboys were disallowed to honor fallen cops
nfl broke the rules re: "deflategate"
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/09/03/rules-indeed-were-broken-nfl/UvF9uVfTwjYcpvKzmC2YsI/story.html
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well goodell better clarify the rules because what is happening(kneeling, raised fists, staying in locker room...) is against NFL rules.
http://wgntv.com/2017/09/25/do-nfl-rules-require-players-to-stand-during-the-national-anthem/
So you read the fake social media postings that claimed those rules existed, found an article that specifically said those social media postings were inaccurate, linked to that article on Scoop...
...and still fell for it?
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well goodell better clarify the rules because what is happening(kneeling, raised fists, staying in locker room...) is against NFL rules.
http://wgntv.com/2017/09/25/do-nfl-rules-require-players-to-stand-during-the-national-anthem/
but tebow took A LOT of crap when he kneeled?
the dallas cowboys were disallowed to honor fallen cops
nfl broke the rules re: "deflategate"
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/09/03/rules-indeed-were-broken-nfl/UvF9uVfTwjYcpvKzmC2YsI/story.html
If you had read the linked article, you would have seen it debunks your thesis. Sad!
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the dallas cowboys were disallowed to honor fallen cops
This is not true. The Cowboys did plenty to honor the police officers who were killed.
The NFL didn't allow the team to wear a particular decal on their helmets. This is a result of the NFL's silly obsession with uniformity (see: Peyton Manning's and DeAngelo Williams' cleats), not some imaginary bias.
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So you read the fake social media postings that claimed those rules existed, found an article that specifically said those social media postings were inaccurate, linked to that article on Scoop...
...and still fell for it?
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL
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I suspect -- actually, "know" is probably a more appropriate word choice -- that my position on this is at odds with most with whom I generally share political beliefs. I am not "offended" by the protests. I do not automatically have contempt for the protesters. I actually believe that the vast majority of them love their country deeply and respect and honor the flag. I don't think taking a knee during the National Anthem changes that. While I don't necessarily see some of issues leading to the protests in the same way, I respect the right to protest. Also, while it may not be the intention of the protesters, I note that in many contexts kneeling is viewed as a very reverent posture. As I look at many of the protesters, I don't necessary see a lack of reverence. Frankly, quite the contrary. I see people who love their country but are very troubled by some of what they see happening. While I will still stand for the Anthem and place my hand over my heart, I don't necessarily disagree with them in many respects. Truth be told, I'd probably have a lower opinion of the protesters if they remained standing but turned their backs on the flag.
On many occasions I've seen people on the right complain about all the "outrage" that is manufactured on the left. As someone who could fairly be described as right-leaning, the outrage over athletes (and others) who in my opinion are fairly solemnly and reverentially protesting during the National Anthem is more disturbing than the protest itself.
Just my opinion. YMMV
+1
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So you read the fake social media postings that claimed those rules existed, found an article that specifically said those social media postings were inaccurate, linked to that article on Scoop...
...and still fell for it?
Well its not like he's a brain surgeon or anything.
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I suspect -- actually, "know" is probably a more appropriate word choice -- that my position on this is at odds with most with whom I generally share political beliefs. I am not "offended" by the protests. I do not automatically have contempt for the protesters. I actually believe that the vast majority of them love their country deeply and respect and honor the flag. I don't think taking a knee during the National Anthem changes that. While I don't necessarily see some of issues leading to the protests in the same way, I respect the right to protest. Also, while it may not be the intention of the protesters, I note that in many contexts kneeling is viewed as a very reverent posture. As I look at many of the protesters, I don't necessary see a lack of reverence. Frankly, quite the contrary. I see people who love their country but are very troubled by some of what they see happening. While I will still stand for the Anthem and place my hand over my heart, I don't necessarily disagree with them in many respects. Truth be told, I'd probably have a lower opinion of the protesters if they remained standing but turned their backs on the flag.
On many occasions I've seen people on the right complain about all the "outrage" that is manufactured on the left. As someone who could fairly be described as right-leaning, the outrage over athletes (and others) who in my opinion are fairly solemnly and reverentially protesting during the National Anthem is more disturbing than the protest itself.
Just my opinion. YMMV
Well said
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I suspect -- actually, "know" is probably a more appropriate word choice -- that my position on this is at odds with most with whom I generally share political beliefs. I am not "offended" by the protests. I do not automatically have contempt for the protesters. I actually believe that the vast majority of them love their country deeply and respect and honor the flag. I don't think taking a knee during the National Anthem changes that. While I don't necessarily see some of issues leading to the protests in the same way, I respect the right to protest. Also, while it may not be the intention of the protesters, I note that in many contexts kneeling is viewed as a very reverent posture. As I look at many of the protesters, I don't necessary see a lack of reverence. Frankly, quite the contrary. I see people who love their country but are very troubled by some of what they see happening. While I will still stand for the Anthem and place my hand over my heart, I don't necessarily disagree with them in many respects. Truth be told, I'd probably have a lower opinion of the protesters if they remained standing but turned their backs on the flag.
On many occasions I've seen people on the right complain about all the "outrage" that is manufactured on the left. As someone who could fairly be described as right-leaning, the outrage over athletes (and others) who in my opinion are fairly solemnly and reverentially protesting during the National Anthem is more disturbing than the protest itself.
Just my opinion. YMMV
Well said.
Out of curiosity, for those against what the players are doing. What if they said that they were kneeling to pray for America, and that it would return to the land of equality for all people that our brave soldiers fought/fight for...that it was a sign of reverence to what they have sacrificed for, but what many americans are not receiving.
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Well said.
Out of curiosity, for those against what the players are doing. What if they said that they were kneeling to pray for America, and that it would return to the land of equality for all people that our brave soldiers fought/fight for...that it was a sign of reverence to what they have sacrificed for, but what many americans are not receiving.
Especially if they were primarily white players, most people complaining now wouldn't have a problem.
To be fair, I would likely LOL at them, but would never call them disrespectful.
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So you read the fake social media postings that claimed those rules existed, found an article that specifically said those social media postings were inaccurate, linked to that article on Scoop...
...and still fell for it?
This. So much this.
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Now that I have watched the replay and listened to discussion regarding the end of the Lions-Falcons game, I think the following:
1. Tate was down short of the goal line. Good call.
2. The runoff follows the letter of the law. Good call. Except....
3. Tate was actually touched with 10+ seconds left.
4.. it doesn't matter because it is still the Lions.
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i'll be waiting for all the apologies, well...not going to be holding my breath though >:(
https://news.grabien.com/story-roger-goodell-ignoring-leagues-own-rule-book-letting-players
"UPDATE: Snopes.com claims that this rule does not, in fact, exist. The article cites the rule quoted above and reports "No such wording appears in the 2017 version of the Official Playing Rules of the National Football League."
Yet the NFL's Game Operations Manual -- the 200-plus book the league refers to as its "bible" -- is different than its rulebook. It is not available to the public. The rule cited above comes from the league itself, via the Washington Post.
The Post reported Sunday that the NFL confirmed the rule's existence but emphasized their ability to enforce it selectively:
Under the league rule, the failure to be on the field for the anthem may result in discipline such as a fine, suspension or loss of a draft pick. But a league official said the key phrase is “may” result, adding he won’t speculate on whether the Steelers would be disciplined.
The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league’s game operations manual, according to a league source.
UPDATE TWO: After Grabien contacted Snopes.com, bringing the above facts to their attention, the author amended his article, confirming the existence of the above-state rule, and changed their description of this story from "false" to "mixture." "
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Apologize for what? YOUR link didn't support YOUR argument.
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i'll be waiting for all the apologies, well...not going to be holding my breath though >:(
https://news.grabien.com/story-roger-goodell-ignoring-leagues-own-rule-book-letting-players
"UPDATE: Snopes.com claims that this rule does not, in fact, exist. The article cites the rule quoted above and reports "No such wording appears in the 2017 version of the Official Playing Rules of the National Football League."
Yet the NFL's Game Operations Manual -- the 200-plus book the league refers to as its "bible" -- is different than its rulebook. It is not available to the public. The rule cited above comes from the league itself, via the Washington Post.
The Post reported Sunday that the NFL confirmed the rule's existence but emphasized their ability to enforce it selectively:
Under the league rule, the failure to be on the field for the anthem may result in discipline such as a fine, suspension or loss of a draft pick. But a league official said the key phrase is “may” result, adding he won’t speculate on whether the Steelers would be disciplined.
The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league’s game operations manual, according to a league source.
UPDATE TWO: After Grabien contacted Snopes.com, bringing the above facts to their attention, the author amended his article, confirming the existence of the above-state rule, and changed their description of this story from "false" to "mixture." "
Rocket ... you said "kneeling, raised fists, staying in locker room" is against NFL rules.
Your evidence of this is a secret "operations guide" that is "different than its rulebook" and states "players must be on the sidelines."
So, even taken in the light most favorable to you,"kneeling, raised fists, staying in locker room" is definitely not against NFL rules, and perhaps staying in the locker room is contrary to the operations guide.
You're correct that you probably shouldn't hold your breath waiting for an apology.
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Interesting comments from Villanueva today. Seems like a standup guy.
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Interesting comments from Villanueva today. Seems like a standup guy.
Yes. And is exactly why this is a complicated issue.
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Interesting comments from Villanueva today. Seems like a standup guy.
Or a flip floppin fish tryna please everyone, hey?
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Interesting comments from Villanueva today. Seems like a standup guy.
don't forget about big ben-he's a standup guy too, eyynah?
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/trump-supports-booing-players-who-kneel-national-anthem-1042616
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Rosa Parks wasn't protesting public transit. Ghandi's hunger strikes weren't protesting food/mealtimes. NFL (and 1 MLB) players aren't protesting the flag, anthem, military, veterans, etc.
As someone else said, want to see what the majority of those at NFL/sporting events think of the anthem? Take a look in the concourses
Also, if the discussion is "disrespecting the flag", might want to read up on the flag code.
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i'll be waiting for all the apologies, well...not going to be holding my breath though >:(
https://news.grabien.com/story-roger-goodell-ignoring-leagues-own-rule-book-letting-players
"UPDATE: Snopes.com claims that this rule does not, in fact, exist. The article cites the rule quoted above and reports "No such wording appears in the 2017 version of the Official Playing Rules of the National Football League."
Yet the NFL's Game Operations Manual -- the 200-plus book the league refers to as its "bible" -- is different than its rulebook. It is not available to the public. The rule cited above comes from the league itself, via the Washington Post.
The Post reported Sunday that the NFL confirmed the rule's existence but emphasized their ability to enforce it selectively:
Under the league rule, the failure to be on the field for the anthem may result in discipline such as a fine, suspension or loss of a draft pick. But a league official said the key phrase is “may” result, adding he won’t speculate on whether the Steelers would be disciplined.
The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league’s game operations manual, according to a league source.
UPDATE TWO: After Grabien contacted Snopes.com, bringing the above facts to their attention, the author amended his article, confirming the existence of the above-state rule, and changed their description of this story from "false" to "mixture." "
Apology? OK, the rest of Scoop is ready to accept your apology, because this "proof" you provide is only proof that you were wrong!
It's not a rule.
And even the enforcement of the guideline includes the word "may."
Goodell ain't enforcing anything. Nearly 10% of the league's players took some kind of action Sunday.
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don't forget about big ben-he's a standup guy too, eyynah?
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/trump-supports-booing-players-who-kneel-national-anthem-1042616
Yeah, it will be interesting to see if all the folks who ordered Villanueva's jersey call quick to cancel their orders so they can buy Big Ben's.
After all, he proved in the past when he was assaulting women what a stand-up guy he was.
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And big Ben has an opinion which he is allowed to express. Just like the rest of the players in the league. Constitutionally protected.
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And big Ben has an opinion which he is allowed to express. Just like the rest of the players in the league. Constitutionally protected.
Agreed.
Look, I respect people who stand during the national anthem. I respect people who choose not to stand during the national anthem. I respect the fans who, while the anthem is playing, are waiting in line to buy hot dogs and beer - like the players, they are making a conscious choice (even if it has nothing to do with a protest) because they could have delayed their refreshments purchases until after the anthem.
I even respect people who say they wish all athletes would stand during the anthem as long as they express their displeasure logically and with at least a little decorum.
I have a hard time respecting those who rant and rave and call people names and claim that they are more American than those they disagree with.
I have the hardest time of all respecting those opinionated, knee-jerk bullies when they are supposed to be leaders and they claim to want to unite us.
I mean, even Trump's "friend," Tom Brady, says Trump was out of line! That's not a lib. That's not a Commie. That's not even a never-Trump Republican. That's a guy who campaigned for Trump, and he's telling his boy to chill the eff out!
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Good on you, Jerry.
NASCAR.. the organization that takes a stance in forbidding any protest during a national anthem, but loves it some Confederate flag waving.
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MU82 has made big strides tonight. Impressive he's able to admit he has trouble respecting himself.
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Good on you, Jerry.
NASCAR.. the organization that takes a stance in forbidding any protest during a national anthem, but loves it some Confederate flag waving.
That won't help with the whole "diversifying its audience" thing.
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I suspect -- actually, "know" is probably a more appropriate word choice -- that my position on this is at odds with most with whom I generally share political beliefs. I am not "offended" by the protests. I do not automatically have contempt for the protesters. I actually believe that the vast majority of them love their country deeply and respect and honor the flag. I don't think taking a knee during the National Anthem changes that. While I don't necessarily see some of issues leading to the protests in the same way, I respect the right to protest. Also, while it may not be the intention of the protesters, I note that in many contexts kneeling is viewed as a very reverent posture. As I look at many of the protesters, I don't necessary see a lack of reverence. Frankly, quite the contrary. I see people who love their country but are very troubled by some of what they see happening. While I will still stand for the Anthem and place my hand over my heart, I don't necessarily disagree with them in many respects. Truth be told, I'd probably have a lower opinion of the protesters if they remained standing but turned their backs on the flag.
On many occasions I've seen people on the right complain about all the "outrage" that is manufactured on the left. As someone who could fairly be described as right-leaning, the outrage over athletes (and others) who in my opinion are fairly solemnly and reverentially protesting during the National Anthem is more disturbing than the protest itself.
Just my opinion. YMMV
Agree completely.
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And big Ben has an opinion which he is allowed to express. Just like the rest of the players in the league. Constitutionally protected.
I'm curious if the anthem protests or what is said at press conferences are constitutionally protected speech. Both are arguably part of the players performing their job and therefore subject to the same standards and constitutional limits we all have at work through legal precedent. *note this isn't grounds for objecting just a technical legal detail.
One thing that's very interesting and shows the hypocrisy of all sides is that Trump is a government official, once he objected it becomes protected speech(government can't prevent it). So those rule of law types are being hypocritical. Imagine if HRC were President and she stated that she thought race tracks should throw out anyone wearing some kind of confederate flag clothing...the right would howl(and the left would cheer, meaning everyone is a hypocrite)
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So a football question for anyone interested. I don’t know what the Falcons’ timeout situation was at the end of the game yesterday, but theoretically let’s say they were out of timeouts and Golden Tate had in fact gotten into the end zone. Since it went to review but it would’ve been a dead ball situation with it being a touchdown, they would’ve still had 8 seconds for the kick off and any time left after the kick off, right? It’s only a 10 second run off if it would be a running clock after the play?
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I'm curious if the anthem protests or what is said at press conferences are constitutionally protected speech. Both are arguably part of the players performing their job and therefore subject to the same standards and constitutional limits we all have at work through legal precedent. *note this isn't grounds for objecting just a technical legal detail.
They're constitutionally protected in the sense that the government can't punish or otherwise sanction a player for doing/saying these things, and can't create a law that prohibits them from doing/saying it. (there are, of course, exceptions, i.e. shouting fire in a crowded theater, but that's not what we're dealing with here).
But there's no protection against non-governmental consequences, like losing a job, social exile, etc.
One thing that's very interesting and shows the hypocrisy of all sides is that Trump is a government official, once he objected it becomes protected speech(government can't prevent it).
It was protected speech before Trump objected to it.
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So a football question for anyone interested. I don’t know what the Falcons’ timeout situation was at the end of the game yesterday, but theoretically let’s say they were out of timeouts and Golden Tate had in fact gotten into the end zone. Since it went to review but it would’ve been a dead ball situation with it being a touchdown, they would’ve still had 8 seconds for the kick off and any time left after the kick off, right? It’s only a 10 second run off if it would be a running clock after the play?
Correct, only time there is a run off is if the reversal means it should have been a running clock all along
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It was protected speech before Trump objected to it.
All well and good but until Trump there was no government entity trying to object to the protests. The argument about the protest has been they can protest because the veterans fought for the right to protest. That's a straw man because no government is taking away their rights. The business or fans objecting to their speech has no legal protection
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So the Packers are a beat up football team. New long snapper today. New OT tomorrow. Need to get through Thursday and then get healthy over the mini bye.
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They're constitutionally protected in the sense that the government can't punish or otherwise sanction a player for doing/saying these things, and can't create a law that prohibits them from doing/saying it. (there are, of course, exceptions, i.e. shouting fire in a crowded theater, but that's not what we're dealing with here).
But there's no protection against non-governmental consequences, like losing a job, social exile, etc.
Correct. It is not protected free speech. If the NFL demands that they stand, and it is within the rules of the CBA, then the NFL can punish them for not standing.
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Best receivers in Packer history:
1. Don Hutson
2. Jordy Nelson
3. Sterling Sharpe
4. James Lofton
5. Donald Driver
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So the Packers are a beat up football team. New long snapper today. New OT tomorrow. Need to get through Thursday and then get healthy over the mini bye.
Top 5 tackles for the Packers are out for extended time....this is gonna be a loby season
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If I weren't a member of this tribe, I would find them completely insufferable.
http://deadspin.com/report-nfl-owner-who-is-actually-just-some-packers-1818768693
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If I weren't a member of this tribe, I would find them completely insufferable.
http://deadspin.com/report-nfl-owner-who-is-actually-just-some-packers-1818768693
The JSComments twitter account does hurt the mystique a bit.
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Rosa Parks wasn't protesting public transit. Ghandi's hunger strikes weren't protesting food/mealtimes. NFL (and 1 MLB) players aren't protesting the flag, anthem, military, veterans, etc.
As someone else said, want to see what the majority of those at NFL/sporting events think of the anthem? Take a look in the concourses
Also, if the discussion is "disrespecting the flag", might want to read up on the flag code.
How many people at an average sporting event fail to remove their hats when the anthem is played? Hundreds? What consequences should those disrespectful people face?
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A great story of democracy in action. Now, let's find some news that matters, like stopping murders of kids in Chicago. Kneeling, standing, holding hands no matta.
Or are we back to Kylie Jenner's pregnancy once this cycles?
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Miller Park shuts down the concessions stands when the anthem is played now which is kind of cool. The BC ushers hold people in the hall. I know I've been guilty of trying to walk to my seat while it was playing.
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MU82 has made big strides tonight. Impressive he's able to admit he has trouble respecting himself.
Only if I slip out without saying goodbye to myself after, well, you know.
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Correct. It is not protected free speech. If the NFL demands that they stand, and it is within the rules of the CBA, then the NFL can punish them for not standing.
If the NFL opened every game with a prayer, could they also fine them for not praying? It's the same Amendment and same attempt at forcing compulsory action against a protected civil liberty.
You can't force political action on someone anymore than you can force religious action.
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Top 5 tackles for the Packers are out for extended time....this is gonna be a loby season
I don't have the sense this is too long term. Expect both starters back after mini bye. But super thin right now.
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Correct. It is not protected free speech. If the NFL demands that they stand, and it is within the rules of the CBA, then the NFL can punish them for not standing.
It is absolutely protected free speech. But it's not being infringed by any government actor, so there is no Constitutional issue. If the police went on the field and started arresting them, we'd see that it is protected free speech. If the NFL were to start disciplining them, it would not be a Constitutional issue.
Semantics, I realize.
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Very well said.
I'd suggest anyone offended take a look at some of the photos of yesterday's protests. Those guys aren't acting disrespectfully, IMO. Many have their hands over their hearts or heads bowed. Nearly all are displaying unity.
This isn't disrespectful?
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/video-lesean-mccoy-stretches-national-anthem-article-1.3518018
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If the NFL opened every game with a prayer, could they also fine them for not praying? It's the same Amendment and same attempt at forcing compulsory action against a protected civil liberty.
You can't force political action on someone anymore than you can force religious action.
This is where it's tricky...it's a public space but it is a work obligation. That's why I wonder if it is even protected speech, if it's the owners ordering them not to protest (clearly protected if it's a government agency or agent doing the ordering).
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This isn't disrespectful?
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/video-lesean-mccoy-stretches-national-anthem-article-1.3518018
One player among more than 200?
That's weak, even for you.
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There is nothing more disrespectful to the American flag than the confederate flag.
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There is nothing more disrespectful to the American flag than the confederate flag.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT77XWum9yH7zNkFW0/giphy.gif)
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Or a flip floppin fish tryna please everyone, hey?
JB goin' after guys who put their lives on the line for this country. What incrediblle service.
Any bets on whether he did the same when our country was at war?
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This isn't disrespectful?
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/video-lesean-mccoy-stretches-national-anthem-article-1.3518018
Was it disrespectful when all the way up to 2009, many players stayed in the locker room and stretch or got treatments or warmed up, instead of coming out for the national anthem?
Honestly, the national anthem before a game is more for the fans/audience and less about the players who are preparing to do their job. Let them prepare for their job any way they see fit, and leave the patriotic aspects to the fans/audience.
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There is nothing more disrespectful to the American flag than the confederate flag.
You're wrong
The Nazi flag
but now it's like we're arguing who was worse, Stalin or Hitler
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Crean sucks
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Crean sucks
Thank you!
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There is nothing more disrespectful to the American flag than the confederate flag.
Oooh. Someone's been reading Facebook memes this morning!
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Oooh. Someone's been reading Facebook memes this morning!
Ha but how is it wrong?
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Oooh. Someone's been reading Facebook memes this morning!
Nope. Not on facebook. It is just obviously true. That flag was born out of contempt for the US flag.
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Nope. Not on facebook. It is just obviously true. That flag was born out of contempt for the US flag.
What we now know as "The Confederate flag" was actually a battle flag and never the official flag of the CSA. We're getting into semantics though. Whatever the case, the Southern Cross flag has definitely become a symbol of racism and prejudice and the darkest time in American history...and that comment has become a popular statement on Facebook in the last 48 hours.
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It is absolutely protected free speech. But it's not being infringed by any government actor, so there is no Constitutional issue. If the police went on the field and started arresting them, we'd see that it is protected free speech. If the NFL were to start disciplining them, it would not be a Constitutional issue.
Semantics, I realize.
Affirmative.
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Most unsurprising headline of the week.
U.S. captain Steve Stricker says team won't stage silent protest
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Most unsurprising headline of the week.
U.S. captain Steve Stricker says team won't stage silent protest
ask anyone who knows strick and you will find out he is universally respected and well liked
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ask anyone who knows strick and you will find out he is universally respected and well liked
Absolutely. He's well known in the lakes area we hang Up Nort. While we've not met him, everyone who has says he is the ultimate 'regular guy'.
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Week 3 ratings up.
Clear evidence fans love it when players protest the anthem?
https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/09/26/nfl-2017-week-3-ratings-donald-trump
Also, on a slightly related front, take note of the item further down about Fox News and ESPN.
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Week 3 ratings up.
Clear evidence fans love it when players protest the anthem?
https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/09/26/nfl-2017-week-3-ratings-donald-trump
Also, on a slightly related front, take note of the item further down about Fox News and ESPN.
They were up especially big for Monday Night Football but the comparison is suspect because last year there was a widely watched Presidential Debate. At least we didn't have to watch THAT again!
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MLB ratings are up this year. I guess they don't have cord cutters or distribution problems?
Saw on ESPN tonight that Direct Tv is giving refunds to customers that want to cancel NFL Football Ticket package. Apparently first time ever.
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One player among more than 200?
That's weak, even for you.
It was the first one I went to, but not the only one that displayed disrespectful behavior. I'm glad we can agree that what he did was extremely disrespectful and unprofessional, or am I reaching to suggest you feel the same way?
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Was it disrespectful when all the way up to 2009, many players stayed in the locker room and stretch or got treatments or warmed up, instead of coming out for the national anthem?
Honestly, the national anthem before a game is more for the fans/audience and less about the players who are preparing to do their job. Let them prepare for their job any way they see fit, and leave the patriotic aspects to the fans/audience.
No, because they were in the locker room. The announcement is made in the stadium to please rise, remove hats, honor America. That isn't made in the locker room. I see no equivalence.
I would find it equally offensive and disrespectful if they asked for a moment of silence and someone decided to scream and yap during it. How I was raised.
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Week 3 ratings up.
Clear evidence fans love it when players protest the anthem?
https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/09/26/nfl-2017-week-3-ratings-donald-trump
Also, on a slightly related front, take note of the item further down about Fox News and ESPN.
Likely to be the case, but week 3 full ratings aren't even out yet. Only HH ratings, which are not the same thing. This will likely be a win for the NFL beating a YOY rating that went up against a presidential debate and needed the Dallas Cowboys on MNF to save the week in TV ratings. Not a good sign for the league.
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Glow you had to kick page 22 off? I think Chicos could've gone on a full page long crusade here.
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It was the first one I went to, but not the only one that displayed disrespectful behavior. I'm glad we can agree that what he did was extremely disrespectful and unprofessional, or am I reaching to suggest you feel the same way?
Oh, you're definitely reaching.
Unlike some, I'm not a snowflake whose feelings for my country are so fragile that I get triggered by others' failure to partake in gestures of forced patriotism. I'm not so insecure in my belief in America that I get offended by those who - in this case, accurately - put its flaws on display.
Nor am I an opportunist who seizes upon this Trumped up controversy as a convenient wedge issue to pander to my base or score political points, all the while proliferating lies about the purpose of the protest.
Nor am I a bigot who views this as an easy opportunity to further the racial divide and denigrate those who don't look or think like me.
It makes no difference to me whether someone stands, sits, kneels, stretches, naps or takes advantage of the short lines in the bathroom during the anthem. Others are free to do as they wish, and I have no desire to judge them for it. I'm not a phony who praises America for the freedom it provides, but demands people be punished for exercising those freedoms if it makes me uncomfortable. I do not feel threatened by those who choose not to hop aboard the jingoism express that often comes with the playing of the anthem at sporting events.
For the record, I have and will continue to stand and remove my hat for the playing of the anthem. Because that's what I chose. But I honor the rights of those who chose otherwise and I respect the hell out of those willing to put their reputations and careers on the line for a just cause in which they believe.
How I was raised.
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If people have their hat on at sporting events, I ask them to take it off. If they don't it gets removed.
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there are certain times and places where a specific behavior is expected. there aren't many and they don't ask too much. with a few exceptions, a funereal-typically, a more reverent atmosphere where a certain decorum is expected.
the national anthem has an expected decorum as well. is it too much to ask for a very brief moment of that during a 2 minute song? a song that was inspired by our u.s soldiers who on 9/14/1814 to celebrate a crucial victory over the british forces during the war of 1812. without that victory, God knows where we would be nor who we would be answering to. the song has and very rightly so, become emblematic of ALL of our soldiers and their families giving the ultimate sacrifice for us to live a life the rest of the world envies.
this protest, whatever it is over, is chosen purposely to interfere with this tradition because they know it will generate the most controversy-PERIOD! you talk to 5 different guys and you get 5 different reasons for the protest. translation-it has become an "opportunity to feed at the smorgasbord of social blah blah. would they choose to pull their b.s during say, the funereal of or a memorial for fill in the blank liberal "hero"? they can go ahead and protest their balls off, BUT during the national anthem is plain wrong on all levels. i know everyone has their examples of noting one behavior or another that stray from the expected. but to organize a group to display their disrespect collectively, out on the filed is wrong.
if they want to protest-it is their right because of the wars we've won, but do it outside the stadium, before or after the games. organize your own. hell, these people own the media. they could get some ceo from one the networks to broadcast their crap. but as much as they want to say this isn't about dis-respecting this or that-B.S. it is by default. by doing it during the national anthem becomes the ultimate sign of disrespect to our soldiers and that's why a majority of our people-you know, the fly-overs, the ones ignored by those that know better, totally disagree with this "protest"
love, boo-boo
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there are certain times and places where a specific behavior is expected. there aren't many and they don't ask too much. with a few exceptions, a funereal-typically, a more reverent atmosphere where a certain decorum is expected.
the national anthem has an expected decorum as well. is it too much to ask for a very brief moment of that during a 2 minute song? a song that was inspired by our u.s soldiers who on 9/14/1814 to celebrate a crucial victory over the british forces during the war of 1812. without that victory, God knows where we would be nor who we would be answering to. the song has and very rightly so, become emblematic of ALL of our soldiers and their families giving the ultimate sacrifice for us to live a life the rest of the world envies.
this protest, whatever it is over, is chosen purposely to interfere with this tradition because they know it will generate the most controversy-PERIOD! you talk to 5 different guys and you get 5 different reasons for the protest. translation-it has become an "opportunity to feed at the smorgasbord of social blah blah. would they choose to pull their b.s during say, the funereal of or a memorial for fill in the blank liberal "hero"? they can go ahead and protest their balls off, BUT during the national anthem is plain wrong on all levels. i know everyone has their examples of noting one behavior or another that stray from the expected. but to organize a group to display their disrespect collectively, out on the filed is wrong.
if they want to protest-it is their right because of the wars we've won, but do it outside the stadium, before or after the games. organize your own. hell, these people own the media. they could get some ceo from one the networks to broadcast their crap. but as much as they want to say this isn't about dis-respecting this or that-B.S. it is by default. by doing it during the national anthem becomes the ultimate sign of disrespect to our soldiers and that's why a majority of our people-you know, the fly-overs, the ones ignored by those that know better, totally disagree with this "protest"
love, boo-boo
Wow. Very well said.
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there are certain times and places where a specific behavior is expected. there aren't many and they don't ask too much. with a few exceptions, a funereal-typically, a more reverent atmosphere where a certain decorum is expected.
the national anthem has an expected decorum as well. is it too much to ask for a very brief moment of that during a 2 minute song? a song that was inspired by our u.s soldiers who on 9/14/1814 to celebrate a crucial victory over the british forces during the war of 1812. without that victory, God knows where we would be nor who we would be answering to. the song has and very rightly so, become emblematic of ALL of our soldiers and their families giving the ultimate sacrifice for us to live a life the rest of the world envies.
this protest, whatever it is over, is chosen purposely to interfere with this tradition because they know it will generate the most controversy-PERIOD! you talk to 5 different guys and you get 5 different reasons for the protest. translation-it has become an "opportunity to feed at the smorgasbord of social blah blah. would they choose to pull their b.s during say, the funereal of or a memorial for fill in the blank liberal "hero"? they can go ahead and protest their balls off, BUT during the national anthem is plain wrong on all levels. i know everyone has their examples of noting one behavior or another that stray from the expected. but to organize a group to display their disrespect collectively, out on the filed is wrong.
if they want to protest-it is their right because of the wars we've won, but do it outside the stadium, before or after the games. organize your own. hell, these people own the media. they could get some ceo from one the networks to broadcast their crap. but as much as they want to say this isn't about dis-respecting this or that-B.S. it is by default. by doing it during the national anthem becomes the ultimate sign of disrespect to our soldiers and that's why a majority of our people-you know, the fly-overs, the ones ignored by those that know better, totally disagree with this "protest"
love, boo-boo
Thank you for your opinion.
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there are certain times and places where a specific behavior is expected. there aren't many and they don't ask too much. with a few exceptions, a funereal-typically, a more reverent atmosphere where a certain decorum is expected.
the national anthem has an expected decorum as well. is it too much to ask for a very brief moment of that during a 2 minute song? a song that was inspired by our u.s soldiers who on 9/14/1814 to celebrate a crucial victory over the british forces during the war of 1812. without that victory, God knows where we would be nor who we would be answering to. the song has and very rightly so, become emblematic of ALL of our soldiers and their families giving the ultimate sacrifice for us to live a life the rest of the world envies.
this protest, whatever it is over, is chosen purposely to interfere with this tradition because they know it will generate the most controversy-PERIOD! you talk to 5 different guys and you get 5 different reasons for the protest. translation-it has become an "opportunity to feed at the smorgasbord of social blah blah. would they choose to pull their b.s during say, the funereal of or a memorial for fill in the blank liberal "hero"? they can go ahead and protest their balls off, BUT during the national anthem is plain wrong on all levels. i know everyone has their examples of noting one behavior or another that stray from the expected. but to organize a group to display their disrespect collectively, out on the filed is wrong.
if they want to protest-it is their right because of the wars we've won, but do it outside the stadium, before or after the games. organize your own. hell, these people own the media. they could get some ceo from one the networks to broadcast their crap. but as much as they want to say this isn't about dis-respecting this or that-B.S. it is by default. by doing it during the national anthem becomes the ultimate sign of disrespect to our soldiers and that's why a majority of our people-you know, the fly-overs, the ones ignored by those that know better, totally disagree with this "protest"
love, boo-boo
Agree to disagree. And that's okay for both of us.
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Did anyone have a problem with what the cowboys did on Monday night? If so, why?
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Did anyone have a problem with what the cowboys did on Monday night? If so, why?
I do. I thought it was a bastardization of what the entire protest was about. And now we see the Packers asking the fans to lock arms Thursday night in a show of "unity?"
That's not the point. That's never been the point. Unifying for the sake of unity, while simultaneously not addressing the issue, is like recognizing veterans at sporting events with a nice applause, but then not funding the VA enough to help with their underlying health issues. It's like wearing pink for "breast cancer awareness" without providing support to organizations trying to cure the disease.
It has become the corporate response that makes people feel they are doing something. But they really aren't doing anything. And you want to know why many people feel their issues are marginalized in society?
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Agree to disagree. And that's okay for both of us.
Seconded.
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I do. I thought it was a bastardization of what the entire protest was about. And now we see the Packers asking the fans to lock arms Thursday night in a show of "unity?"
That's not the point. That's never been the point. Unifying for the sake of unity, while simultaneously not addressing the issue, is like recognizing veterans at sporting events with a nice applause, but then not funding the VA enough to help with their underlying health issues. It's like wearing pink for "breast cancer awareness" without providing support to organizations trying to cure the disease.
It has become the corporate response that makes people feel they are doing something. But they really aren't doing anything. And you want to know why many people feel their issues are marginalized in society?
Agreed
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I do. I thought it was a bastardization of what the entire protest was about. And now we see the Packers asking the fans to lock arms Thursday night in a show of "unity?"
That's not the point. That's never been the point. Unifying for the sake of unity, while simultaneously not addressing the issue, is like recognizing veterans at sporting events with a nice applause, but then not funding the VA enough to help with their underlying health issues. It's like wearing pink for "breast cancer awareness" without providing support to organizations trying to cure the disease.
It has become the corporate response that makes people feel they are doing something. But they really aren't doing anything. And you want to know why many people feel their issues are marginalized in society?
This has been my issue with the protest from the beginning. There's no plan. There are no action items. It's now reached the point where no one is really sure what the players are even protesting (promoting?) anymore. Are they taking a stand against racial injustices and police brutality? Are they angry that the POTUS called them SOBs? Do they just want to promote unity? What's the point of all this?
If players want to call attention to social injustices, spend their off days and bye weeks meeting with community leaders to discuss the issues and see how they can help.
If players want to push back on police brutality, start raising funds to aid in better training for officers or for foundations leading the charge against this issue.
If players want to show that they don't mean any disrespect to veterans then raise money for the VA or for foundations to help veterans with PTSD.
Sitting/kneeling got the ball rolling but it's time to act and there are a lot of relatively simply actions that can be taken to bring attention to the actual issues that started this whole thing.
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I fully understand and respect anyone who thinks kneeling during the national anthem is disrespectful.
I am terrified that so many people are ready to see people fired, fined, and (in a small minority) thrown in jail for refusing to participate in a show of patriotism. That's not something I expect to see in a country like ours.
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This has been my issue with the protest from the beginning. There's no plan. There are no action items. It's now reached the point where no one is really sure what the players are even protesting (promoting?) anymore. Are they taking a stand against racial injustices and police brutality? Are they angry that the POTUS called them SOBs? Do they just want to promote unity? What's the point of all this?
If players want to call attention to social injustices, spend their off days and bye weeks meeting with community leaders to discuss the issues and see how they can help.
If players want to push back on police brutality, start raising funds to aid in better training for officers or for foundations leading the charge against this issue.
If players want to show that they don't mean any disrespect to veterans then raise money for the VA or for foundations to help veterans with PTSD.
Sitting/kneeling got the ball rolling but it's time to act and there are a lot of relatively simply actions that can be taken to bring attention to the actual issues that started this whole thing.
Academically speaking, social movements have four stages - (1) Emergence, (2) Coalescence, (3) Bureaucratization/Formalization, and (4) Decline. Trying to apply the framework to what we're seeing (and admittedly painting in an overly broad brush), what we're seeing now is probably advanced, down and dirty stage 2. Kaep and some of the pioneers were the triggers for emergence. As things have gained steam, more people are participating while opinions are becoming more polarized (equal and opposite reaction sort of thing). Bureaucratization/Formalization comes next, and if we're still having the exact same "but no one's actually doing anything" debate this time next year or the year after, I would argue that would be a valid criticism. But let's not unfairly impose unrealistic expectations on a social movement taken up by sports figures that is really still in its infancy.
One other thought with respect to the "what are the protests about" debate - that is not on Kaep, Martellus Bennett, and other protest pioneers. They've been very clear that this has been about the African American condition in America, most prominently with respect to law enforcement. The blurring of that message has been the work of political leaders creating the straw man that the protests carry an anti-military message, and the NFL and its teams co-opting it into some sort of bastardized #branding freedom of speech/unity, don't call us SOB's thing. To get nerdy again for a second, co-opting is actually one of the main reasons academics cite for the decline of social movements, and that's one of the conflicts we're seeing play out since Trump commented on the protests without mentioning the African American and law enforcement issue. THAT is the essence of co-opting and blurring the message. Everything from Goodell's initial response, to Jerry Jones to, if he doesn't start getting more specific, Rodger's comments this week, will only add fuel to the "what's this really about, anyway" fire, and pull the entire movement further off message.
Sorry for the rant - here's a link to a quick primer of the sociology stuff I mentioned. Anyone who actually studied it in depth, please feel free to chime in and correct what I'm sure are a bunch of things I got wrong :-[
https://www.ebscohost.com/uploads/imported/thisTopic-dbTopic-1248.pdf (https://www.ebscohost.com/uploads/imported/thisTopic-dbTopic-1248.pdf)
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Dis chit will all say adios soon, ai na?
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Academically speaking, social movements have four stages - (1) Emergence, (2) Coalescence, (3) Bureaucratization/Formalization, and (4) Decline. Trying to apply the framework to what we're seeing (and admittedly painting in an overly broad brush), what we're seeing now is probably advanced, down and dirty stage 2. Kaep and some of the pioneers were the triggers for emergence. As things have gained steam, more people are participating while opinions are becoming more polarized (equal and opposite reaction sort of thing). Bureaucratization/Formalization comes next, and if we're still having the exact same "but no one's actually doing anything" debate this time next year or the year after, I would argue that would be a valid criticism. But let's not unfairly impose unrealistic expectations on a social movement taken up by sports figures that is really still in its infancy.
One other thought with respect to the "what are the protests about" debate - that is not on Kaep, Martellus Bennett, and other protest pioneers. They've been very clear that this has been about the African American condition in America, most prominently with respect to law enforcement. The blurring of that message has been the work of political leaders creating the straw man that the protests carry an anti-military message, and the NFL and its teams co-opting it into some sort of bastardized #branding freedom of speech/unity, don't call us SOB's thing. To get nerdy again for a second, co-opting is actually one of the main reasons academics cite for the decline of social movements, and that's one of the conflicts we're seeing play out since Trump commented on the protests without mentioning the African American and law enforcement issue. THAT is the essence of co-opting and blurring the message. Everything from Goodell's initial response, to Jerry Jones to, if he doesn't start getting more specific, Rodger's comments this week, will only add fuel to the "what's this really about, anyway" fire, and pull the entire movement further off message.
Sorry for the rant - here's a link to a quick primer of the sociology stuff I mentioned. Anyone who actually studied it in depth, please feel free to chime in and correct what I'm sure are a bunch of things I got wrong :-[
https://www.ebscohost.com/uploads/imported/thisTopic-dbTopic-1248.pdf (https://www.ebscohost.com/uploads/imported/thisTopic-dbTopic-1248.pdf)
This is a very good post.
To add in response to MM:
First, you're mistaken if you believe players haven't done anything beyond taking a knee. They've met with law enforcement, community leaders and public officials in places like Philadelphia, Cleveland and elsewhere. They've gone on ride alongs with police officers. They've hosted events in their communities to raise awareness and improve relations. They've donated large sums to various causes that work on the issues they're raising. They've even testified before Congress on these issues.
Basically, they're doing all the things you suggest.
Secondly, one can't seriously suggest its incumbent upon a handful of professional athletes to fix these deep-rooted societal issues. It's a civic duty for ALL of us to fix these issues. And most of all it's a duty of our institutions to address these issues.
NFL players shouldn't be paying for better police training. Police departments should be paying for better police training. NFL players shouldn't be funding better treatment for veterans. The Pentagon should be funding better treatment for veterans.
Let's not demand respect for a flag while abdicating our responsibility to uphold the principles for which it stands.
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This is a very good post.
To add in response to MM:
First, you're mistaken if you believe players haven't done anything beyond taking a knee. They've met with law enforcement, community leaders and public officials in places like Philadelphia, Cleveland and elsewhere. They've gone on ride alongs with police officers. They've hosted events in their communities to raise awareness and improve relations. They've donated large sums to various causes that work on the issues they're raising. They've even testified before Congress on these issues.
Basically, they're doing all the things you suggest.
Secondly, one can't seriously suggest its incumbent upon a handful of professional athletes to fix these deep-rooted societal issues. It's a civic duty for ALL of us to fix these issues. And most of all it's a duty of our institutions to address these issues.
NFL players shouldn't be paying for better police training. Police departments should be paying for better police training. NFL players shouldn't be funding better treatment for veterans. The Pentagon should be funding better treatment for veterans.
Let's not demand respect for a flag while abdicating our responsibility to uphold the principles for which it stands.
I never said that individual players haven't done anything. They most certainly have. However, the players as a group haven't exactly come together to take significant action or make a specific call to action in a large-scale way. It's a rudderless ship right now which is why the message has gotten so jumbled.
Also, you know that I never said that its incumbent upon NFL players to make societal changes on their own. However, if players feel that strongly about an issue, they can at least get the ball rolling. JJ Watt raised nearly $40M via social media in less than a month. Americans can be very generous but need a starting point and a cause. Ask every player to donate $1000 or even one game check to (fill in the causes), open donations up to the public and see what happens. I'm guessing that would be more beneficial than your stance of "Hey, it's on the government to do that."
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I never said that individual players haven't done anything. They most certainly have. However, the players as a group haven't exactly come together to take significant action or make a specific call to action in a large-scale way.
Actually, they've done exactly that:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/09/21/report-memo-roger-goodell-nfl-players-request-support-activism-effort/688142001/
FWIW, it's worth reading the entire memo. I think you'll be surprised at out how in-depth they go and how detailed their plans are. And I think it might dispel beliefs that the players aren't taking the next steps:
https://sports.yahoo.com/memo-4-players-sent-nfl-commissioner-roger-goodell-030818178.html
Also, you know that I never said that its incumbent upon NFL players to make societal changes on their own. However, if players feel that strongly about an issue, they can at least get the ball rolling. JJ Watt raised nearly $40M via social media in less than a month. Americans can be very generous but need a starting point and a cause. Ask every player to donate $1000 or even one game check to (fill in the causes), open donations up to the public and see what happens. I'm guessing there would be more beneficial than your stance of "Hey, it's on the government to do that."
First, most of the players leading the charge have individual foundations to which they give money and accept donations that benefit their communities and these causes. I'll provide some links for you to visit (and maybe donate?).
Colin Kaepernick: http://kaepernick7.com/million-dollar-pledge/
Michael Bennett: https://thebennettfoundation.org/
Malcolm Jenkins: http://themalcolmjenkinsfoundation.org/
Torrey Smith: https://www.torreysmith.org/
Anquan Boldin: https://q81.org/
Second, you're grossly misstating my stance. I clearly said it's on all of us.
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Did anyone have a problem with what the cowboys did on Monday night? If so, why?
Yes. If a protest isn't making someone a bit uncomfortable, it's not a protest.
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"I am terrified that so many people are ready to see people fired, fined, and (in a small minority) thrown in jail for refusing to participate in a show of patriotism. That's not something I expect to see in a country like ours."
how many? and of those, are they the ones who can fire, fine, or throw in jail those who disagree with the other? you say "so many" but many of those have no power to do the aforementioned. my opinion=fear not tamu my man, there is much more around here to be "terrified" of like global warming ;D
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If people have their hat on at sporting events, I ask them to take it off. If they don't it gets removed.
So the proper way for the flag/anthem to be honored is to:
1) pay attention to how the people around you are observing the anthem to make sure they are 'in compliance'
2) disrupt those around you during the anthem
3) if the person didn't just forget they were wearing a hat try to verbally get them to comply with something they don't want to do
4) start a physical confrontation with a stranger in front of children to try to force compliance
Sounds more like the steps to get ejected or arrested than the steps to honor the flag/anthem.
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I fully understand and respect anyone who thinks kneeling during the national anthem is disrespectful.
I am terrified that so many people are ready to see people fired, fined, and (in a small minority) thrown in jail for refusing to participate in a show of patriotism. That's not something I expect to see in a country like ours.
Good post TAMU.
Here in my city - Racine, WI - a local restaurant owner called for the execution of anyone who kneels for the anthem. Advocated murdering people (of course we all understand he is referring to minorities) who express their constitutional rights. The other 3 cowards who co-own the restaurant issued a public statement saying they don't feel the same and were sorry if anyone was offended. When that didn't cut it, they issued a new statement that they are trying to remove the offensive owner. It was a restaurant I went to often - but I will never make that mistake again.
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If people have their hat on at sporting events, I ask them to take it off. If they don't it gets removed.
You are actually pretending you would be man enough to do that? That is hilarious.
Mr. Law & Order saying assault is the proper thing to do when you disagree with someone. Go back to your criminal friends on the AAU circuit.
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Rocket, I'll be honest, I'm having a hard time understanding your post. But I think you are saying that I shouldn't be afraid because the people don't actually have the power to do what they are saying.
If that's the case, I disagree. If it's one person with power I can dismiss them as an outlier and trust that masses will keep them in check. If it's the masses, I can't dismiss that. It means the attitude is being normalized. And eventually the masses could have enough power in numbers to demand what they are saying, even if it goes against the values of our country.
And there's at least one person with that level of power who has been very vocal about at least firing people who refuse to participate in an act of patriotism
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Rocket, I'll be honest, I'm having a hard time understanding your post. But I think you are saying that I shouldn't be afraid because the people don't actually have the power to do what they are saying.
If that's the case, I disagree. If it's one person with power I can dismiss them as an outlier and trust that masses will keep them in check. If it's the masses, I can't dismiss that. It means the attitude is being normalized. And eventually the masses could have enough power in numbers to demand what they are saying, even if it goes against the values of our country.
And there's at least one person with that level of power who has been very vocal about at least firing people who refuse to participate in an act of patriotism
looks like you got it just fine-first of all, it's the not so silent minority that you should fear. they are controlling the agenda and telling you what to think and believe. they are putting this out there with a mob mentality that you must go along to get along. the one person you are referring to-just to be clear, said,
""Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, say: "Get that son of a b---- off the field right now. Out. He's fired. He's fired,"
very vocal is saying-"wouldn't you love to see..." that's it. he did not call for it, he did not say they should be, he did not say they will be..., the president is entitled to his opinion just as much as anyone else and in this case, he is once again in the majority
to be very honest, as a business owner, if one of my employees misrepresents my company, disobeys company policy, wears a fidel castro tee shirt, etc etc, not only would i love to fire them, i will fire them. the nfl is a business and the stadiums are their offices. if goodell had a sac, he would have put this fire out before it got to this point-real leaders lead
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So to change the subject and lighten the mood I share the following......
As you all know the Packers are literally down to guys off the street to play offensive tackle tomorrow. So a comment on a message board reflecting that reality?
'Maybe the offensive line ought to lock arms DURING the game instead!'
All good. Go Pack Go! ;D
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So to change the subject and lighten the mood I share the following......
As you all know the Packers are literally down to guys off the street to play offensive tackle tomorrow. So a comment on a message board reflecting that reality?
'Maybe the offensive line ought to lock arms DURING the game instead!'
All good. Go Pack Go! ;D
It's the Bears.
But seriously, they did a lot more roll outs than they usually do. I expect some of that tomorrow.
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Rocket, I hear your point. Can you understand why so many would react when the same guy who said there were many fine people among the protesting Nazi's and white supremacists would then say that if a player took a knee that the owners should fire the SOB? A very small number of players were protesting prior to that statement. It probably would have continued to diminish. The statement galvanized and angered the majority of players. So they acted in a constitutionally protected manner.
I disagree with the anger directed at the players but I try to understand it. Can you try to understand why the players would be so galvanized by the president's words? They are like you, getting angry when they feel attacked.
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Everyone has the right to their opinion. I would fight to the death to protect that right as the saying goes. My personal opinion is that it is terrifying that half our country seems to want people to be fired, fined, (and in a small minority of people) thrown in jail for refusing to participate in a forced display of patriotism that is being forced on them by their employer.
I do understand the business argument. I would hate to be an NFL owner nowadays. They are essentially being forced to choose between their employees and their customers. I couldn't blame an owner for making the decision that was best for his business provided it was ethical. I still think the best business decision is supporting the players at this point but maybe that changes.
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Here is one of the problems of the argument, "it is disrespectful to military vets and their families".
Yes, some military vets and their families are offended by individuals kneeling.
But, some military vets would be equally offended if you forced people to stand, because that is not what they fought for.
So someone will be upset by either decision. For me the tie breaker is the constitution. Since someone will be offended no matter what, go with the constitutional protection of free speech.
The other aspect is that stand/kneel/sit, doesn't imply any patriotism whatsoever. Many of the people sitting/kneeling are likely more supportive of the military and patriotic than some of them standing. Really, stand/kneel/sit has nothing to do with patriotism or support of the military, it is merely an argument made up to attack those making this protest. I'd rather let people do what they feel is right and not question what they think/feel. What they think/feel will be played out by actions in other aspects of their life, not some arbitrary forced act of patriotism for 2-minutes at a sporting event.
Forcing someone to stand does not imply patriotistm/support. It is like manners/politeness. I'd rather people do what they want then force manners/politeness on someone. It always reminds me of what I've been told is the difference between the north/midwest and the south. In both places the people are ridiculously nice and friendly. In the north/midwest, they are nice and friendly because that is just the way they are. In the south, they appear nice and friendly because that is the way they were raised, but the moment you walk away they are likely cursing you under their breath.
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Rocket, I hear your point. Can you understand why so many would react when the same guy who said there were many fine people among the protesting Nazi's and white supremacists would then say that if a player took a knee that the owners should fire the SOB? A very small number of players were protesting prior to that statement. It probably would have continued to diminish. The statement galvanized and angered the majority of players. So they acted in a constitutionally protected manner.
I disagree with the anger directed at the players but I try to understand it. Can you try to understand why the players would be so galvanized by the president's words? They are like you, getting angry when they feel attacked.
to both you and tamu-yes and yes
i get your side or point as well. i don't recall however the part about "many fine people among the nazi's...but it's really not worth starting a whole different argument over, suffice it to say we are living in a highly polarizing era-duh? but in order to try to make better sense out of it, is by hearing the other side in a civil nature as both of you can do and i appreciate that. i can understand the players anger, but at the same time, they must remember who it is they are also offending-the people who pay their salaries-not the owners-the fans. the sponsors have to tip-toe thru this as well because the fans also vote with their wallets. i do not agree with anyone calling out for a "boycott" everyone can make their own decisions on whether or not they want to buy something or patronize such and such an establishment.
hopefully, this will all simmer down...soon, and we can move on to the next "outrage" of the moment. unfortunately or not, it seems to take near meltdowns, bruised relationships, and harsh words to advance change
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The 'many fine people' comment was in response to Charlottesville.
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Aaron Rodgers made a point on his Instagram:
(http://sharing.tmj4.com/sharewtmj/photo/2017/09/26/GettyImages-853152936_1506463010293_67231299_ver1.0_640_480.jpg)
aaronrodgers12I can't imagine what kind of social media attacks these cameramen must be enduring after taking a knee during the anthem and wearing a hat.
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It's the Bears.
But seriously, they did a lot more roll outs than they usually do. I expect some of that tomorrow.
The Bears played well last week and in Week 1. The Packers haven't been sharp and are a couple plays/calls away from being 0-3. Maybe, just maybe...oh, nevermind. They're still the Bears.
Sigh...
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The Bears played well last week and in Week 1. The Packers haven't been sharp and are a couple plays/calls away from being 0-3. Maybe, just maybe...oh, nevermind. They're still the Bears.
Sigh...
If the Packers win tonight, the will have the lead in the overall series for the first time since 1933.
In 1992 (before Favre/Rodgers era) the Bears had a 24 game lead.
I probably jinxed it now...
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to both you and tamu-yes and yes
i get your side or point as well. i don't recall however the part about "many fine people among the nazi's...but it's really not worth starting a whole different argument over, suffice it to say we are living in a highly polarizing era-duh? but in order to try to make better sense out of it, is by hearing the other side in a civil nature as both of you can do and i appreciate that. i can understand the players anger, but at the same time, they must remember who it is they are also offending-the people who pay their salaries-not the owners-the fans. the sponsors have to tip-toe thru this as well because the fans also vote with their wallets. i do not agree with anyone calling out for a "boycott" everyone can make their own decisions on whether or not they want to buy something or patronize such and such an establishment.
hopefully, this will all simmer down...soon, and we can move on to the next "outrage" of the moment. unfortunately or not, it seems to take near meltdowns, bruised relationships, and harsh words to advance change
NM. Already addressed by TAMU
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I've always been curious about the kneeling aspect. If you're in a church, you genuflect as you walk by the crucifix or alter. Catholics kneel during parts of the mass. Kneeling is a sign of reverence, worship, and servility.
Imagine if .. I dunno .. Tim Tebow knelt 5 years ago during the anthem. People would think, wow, this guy is reverent. Hell, it would have started a uber patriotic trend. -- I get it, the "intent" matters. The physical act .. well, sure appears respectful. I suppose Kaep may have poisoned the well when he sat the first few times.
There's also the uncomfortable visual of black men kneeling .. in a stadium that is mostly filled with whites above them.
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Aaron Rodgers made a point on his Instagram:
(http://sharing.tmj4.com/sharewtmj/photo/2017/09/26/GettyImages-853152936_1506463010293_67231299_ver1.0_640_480.jpg)
aaronrodgers12I can't imagine what kind of social media attacks these cameramen must be enduring after taking a knee during the anthem and wearing a hat.
This gets at my point on stretching not being disrespectful. Their job is to play football, and not get injured. The cameramen's jobs are to catch all the action.
The anthem is for the fans and the atmosphere, not the people doing their jobs.
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The Bears played well last week and in Week 1. The Packers haven't been sharp and are a couple plays/calls away from being 0-3. Maybe, just maybe...oh, nevermind. They're still the Bears.
Sigh...
The Bears are playing well and the Packers are incredibly depleted at Tackle. Here's the question. Does the need for ARodg to 'dink and dunk' tonight in hopes of generating about 24 points still outshine the Bears ability to run the ball now that most of the Packers defense is expected to be back? No guarantee but I suspect the answer is yes. Now if he throws another Pick 6 because the Bears defense is rolled up? All bets are then off. But I really don't think he'll do that.
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Perhaps its time to keep all of the teams in the locker room until after the Anthem like it was before 2009.
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Things would be better with a fully healthy O-line no doubt. However, sometimes I think Rodgers is a little better when he's forced to get it out quicker and take the short passes. Especially last year, there were a lot of times he would ignore guys 5 yards down the field who were open while hoping to hit the big play that wouldn't develop.
For instance, when he had the calf injury and couldn't extend plays, I think it made him more dangerous because he'd take the easy pass and move the chains.
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The Bears played well last week and in Week 1. The Packers haven't been sharp and are a couple plays/calls away from being 0-3. Maybe, just maybe...oh, nevermind. They're still the Bears.
Sigh...
The Pack will win fairly easily tonight.
The Bears have no passing attack. Hard to win that way in today's NFL. And, while the defense has been solid, they are not strong enough to carry this team to victory. The Bears won last week because Steelers tackling was extremely poor and their defense got gassed in the heat.
Just one step closer to the Trubisky era finally beginning.
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As long as the Packers offense doesn't give up a defensive touchdown for the 3rd straight week they'll win by a touchdown +. If they aren't setting up the Bears offense, I don't see the Bears scoring enough even if the Packers offense struggles.
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If people have their hat on at sporting events, I ask them to take it off. If they don't it gets removed.
And then, if I see a young man holding his girlfriend's hand, I'll physically separate their hands and physically put his right hand over his heart and her right hand over her heart. I'll try not to touch her breast in the process, but if I do I'm probably going to jail for assault anyway, so I might as well make it worth my while.
And then, if I see a young man holding his boyfriend's hand, I'll punch 'em both in the face. Because there's nothing less 'Merican than gays acting all gay during the anthem.
And then, I'll go out into the corridor and scream at the top of my lungs, "Hey all you Commies! Get your pinko arses out of the hot dog lines and get into that stadium and show some respect!"
And then, of course, I'll have to slap myself because instead of respecting our flag and our anthem and our veterans and our president, I was too busy playing Anthem Vigilante.
And finally, I'll enjoy my night in jail for assaulting people. But it will have been worth it (assuming I don't get assaulted while there)!
I am JB ... and I not only make the policy in this country, but I enforce it** single-handedly!
**Unless the guy with the cap on or holding hands is 6-foot-8 and 250 pounds of sheer muscle. Then I might not be principled enough to take a stand because I'd rather not get my arse kicked from here to next Sunday.
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The Pack will win fairly easily tonight.
The Bears have no passing attack. Hard to win that way in today's NFL. And, while the defense has been solid, they are not strong enough to carry this team to victory. The Bears won last week because Steelers tackling was extremely poor and their defense got gassed in the heat.
Just one step closer to the Trubisky era finally beginning.
I hope you're right. I'm not very confident given the state of the Pack's offensive line.
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I've always been curious about the kneeling aspect. If you're in a church, you genuflect as you walk by the crucifix or alter. Catholics kneel during parts of the mass. Kneeling is a sign of reverence, worship, and servility.
Imagine if .. I dunno .. Tim Tebow knelt 5 years ago during the anthem. People would think, wow, this guy is reverent. Hell, it would have started a uber patriotic trend. -- I get it, the "intent" matters. The physical act .. well, sure appears respectful. I suppose Kaep may have poisoned the well when he sat the first few times.
There's also the uncomfortable visual of black men kneeling .. in a stadium that is mostly filled with whites above them.
I wonder how many people know that Kaep switched to kneeling after talking to military vets. They recommended he kneel as it is a sign of respect, like how military men kneel beside fallen comrades.
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Yes. He originally sat. The vets told him that kneeling was respectful.
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I wonder how many people know that Kaep switched to kneeling after talking to military vets. They recommended he kneel as it is a sign of respect, like how military men kneel beside fallen comrades.
Of course you have probably figured out the REAL reason why many are upset.
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Of course you have probably figured out the REAL reason why many are upset.
You mean it's not about the kneeling?
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https://www.cnet.com/news/russian-linked-twitter-accounts-stoked-nfl-anthem-debate/
Hmm...
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ROFL. Interfere with elections....meh. It is all fun and games until you mess with NFL viewership.
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First of all, thanks to Pakuni for the info he posted yesterday regarding the players' appeal to the NFL and their list of action items. I knew there were players who wrote a letter but I honestly didn't know much more beyond that.
I can understand why people initially thought that Kaepernick was being disrespectful to the flag and to the military. Kaepernick did not handle the aftermath particularly well and that contributed to his message getting lost in the shuffle, but the fact is "the American people" for the most part have not taken the time to learn what this is really all about. In its very, very simplest terms, Kaepernick and the other protesters want all people to be treated fairly and equally. That really doesn't seem like a topic that would generate outrage.
From the Hindsight is 20/20 Department: It'd be interesting to know how this would have all played out had Kap spoken to military personnel first and stated that he had done so and that he planned to kneel during the anthem as a sign of respect to the flag/military but that he wasn't going to stand up to show full respect to a country that doesn't treat everyone equally (or something worded better than that). The protesters have been "playing from behind" since this whole thing started and many people have already made up their minds and aren't going to change them.
This shouldn't be a First Amendment of the Constitution issue. It should be a second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence issue.
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You mean it's not about the kneeling?
White guy kneels during the anthem in honor of fallen soldiers and no one would care.
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First of all, thanks to Pakuni for the info he posted yesterday regarding the players' appeal to the NFL and their list of action items. I knew there were players who wrote a letter but I honestly didn't know much more beyond that.
I can understand why people initially thought that Kaepernick was being disrespectful to the flag and to the military. Kaepernick did not handle the aftermath particularly well and that contributed to his message getting lost in the shuffle, but the fact is "the American people" for the most part have not taken the time to learn what this is really all about. In its very, very simplest terms, Kaepernick and the other protesters want all people to be treated fairly and equally. That really doesn't seem like a topic that would generate outrage.
From the Hindsight is 20/20 Department: It'd be interesting to know how this would have all played out had Kap spoken to military personnel first and stated that he had done so and that he planned to kneel during the anthem as a sign of respect to the flag/military but that he wasn't going to stand up to show full respect to a country that doesn't treat everyone equally (or something worded better than that). The protesters have been "playing from behind" since this whole thing started and many people have already made up their minds and aren't going to change them.
This shouldn't be a First Amendment of the Constitution issue. It should be a second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence issue.
Superb comment, MM. Great insight, and legitimate questions.
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Guess Green Bay showed da country how we roll ‘round here, ai na?
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Perhaps its time to keep all of the teams in the locker room until after the Anthem like it was before 2009.
That would just be way too simple
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Bears keep steppin’ on der fookin’ Johnsons, hey?
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Bears keep steppin’ on der fookin’ Johnsons, hey?
Pack on PEDs. Quick recovery with short turnaround.. Snap velocity up 1 mph. Called in lightening storm just as random drug test unfolding. Clear as Ryan Braun's urine.
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Pack on PEDs. Quick recovery with short turnaround.. Snap velocity up 1 mph. Called in lightening storm just as random drug test unfolding. Clear as Ryan Braun's urine.
Absolutely the Packers have players who have taken PEDs. I love that Chicago sports fans actually think their teams don’t have players that take PEDs. Absolutely absurd, but if it’s that big of a deal to you and helps you sleep at night then hey, your guys are totally clean for sure. No way your 53 NFL players have taken PEDs. (Then again they are so godawful that PEDs aren’t at all needed to smoke up some Bear meat...)
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That is as dirty of a hit as I’ve ever seen in the NFL.
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N_A_S_T_Y!
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That is as dirty of a hit as I’ve ever seen in the NFL.
Word for word. Exactly what I was going to post.
Suspension for multiple games should be forthcoming.
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That is as dirty of a hit as I’ve ever seen in the NFL.
Matthews does something dirtier every other week.
It's football. He wasn't a defenseless receiver. He was a runner. That's not a penalty. The flag wasn't even thrown until they saw he was hurt.
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Matthews does something dirtier every other week.
It's football. He wasn't a defenseless receiver. He was a runner. That's not a penalty.
Wow. Your a smart poster. I expect better. It was a blatant attempt to injure.
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Matthews does something dirtier every other week.
It's football. He wasn't a defenseless receiver. He was a runner. That's not a penalty.
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Lol. Jesus you are delusional.
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Matthews does something dirtier every other week.
It's football. He wasn't a defenseless receiver. He was a runner. That's not a penalty.
BS. Obvious penalty. Crown of the helmet. Mike Periera said he should have been ejected.
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BS. Obvious penalty. Crown of the helmet. Mike Periera said he should have been ejected.
Was he a defenseless receiver?
Let's see how many RBs get hit in the helmet the rest of the game.
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Was he a defenseless receiver?
Let's see how many RBs get hit in the helmet the rest of the game.
You have a lack of understanding of the rules. They didn't call defenseless receiver. You can't launch yourself into someone with the crown of the helmet.
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Matthews does something dirtier every other week.
It's football. He wasn't a defenseless receiver. He was a runner. That's not a penalty. The flag wasn't even thrown until they saw he was hurt.
That was one of the dirtiest things I've seen in football. Defenseless receiver stood up and going nowhere directly targeted in the head with the crown of the helmet.
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Was he a defenseless receiver?
Let's see how many RBs get hit in the helmet the rest of the game.
When a runner's forward progress is stopped and held up like that, he is considered defenseless. Absolutely a penalty and very dirty.
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You have a lack of understanding of the rules. They didn't call defenseless receiver. You can't launch yourself into someone with the crown of the helmet.
It happens 20 times a game. Usually players don't connect like that. Watch it in real time. It looks less intentionally vicious. If he hits him 6" lower, he causes a fumble and gets praised.
For the record, I fully expect that Trevathan will be suspended but I disagree with the call, in large part because it was so late and wasn't going to be called if he gets up.
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It happens 20 times a game. Usually players don't connect like that. Watch it in real time. It looks less intentionally vicious.
For the record, I fully expect that Trevathan will be suspended but I disagree with the call, in large part because it was so late and wasn't going to be called if he gets up.
Well you don't know the rules. Not much more I can say than that.
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Sultan is correct.
From the NFL 2016 Rule Change and Point of Emphasis memo:
Game officials will be instructed to call fouls when a defender lowers his head and makes forcible contact with the crown of his helmet on a runner outside the tackle box.
http://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2016-rules-changes-and-points-of-emphasis/
Whether Adams gets up or not has no bearing on whether it was a foul. It will have a bearing on Trevathan's suspension/fine, though. What happened there is exactly what the league wants and needs to eliminate. Might be time to make an example of someone.
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And he was a defenseless player.
Players in a defenseless posture are:
*A runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped
http://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/defenseless-player/ (http://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/defenseless-player/)
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Dirtiest play I can remember. NFL should give him a seat for the rest of the year. Clearly intent to injure. If the NFL doesn't, the Bears should (won't) have the decency to do it for them.
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Dirtiest play I can remember. NFL should give him a seat for the rest of the year. Clearly intent to injure. If the NFL doesn't, the Bears should (won't) have the decency to do it for them.
It was dirty and deserves a suspension but the rest of the season is absurd.
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I'll admit it. I was angry because the Bears look awful and the Packers get so many calls at home. It was a penalty...but not nearly as awful and dirty and intentional as many of you seem to believe ;) I also stand by my contention that it happens often but players rarely connect.
Any chance the NFL suspends Glennon for the hit?
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I'll admit it. I was angry because the Bears look awful and the Packers get so many calls at home. It was a penalty...but not nearly as awful and dirty and intentional as many of you seem to believe ;) I also stand by my contention that it happens often but players rarely connect.
Any chance the NFL suspends Glennon for the hit?
People calling it the dirtiest hit they've ever seen is hyperbole. I've seen a bunch of comparable plays.
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People calling it the dirtiest hit they've ever seen is hyperbole. I've seen a bunch of comparable plays.
He lined him up. There are plenty of vicious hits, and they look similar. But this play was over, and he went in with the crown of the helmet aiming right for his head.
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Trubisky needs to start in week 5. Vikes have a tough defense but with extra time to prepare and the game in Chicago a change needs to be made.
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He lined him up. There are plenty of vicious hits, and they look similar. But this play was over, and he went in with the crown of the helmet aiming right for his head.
I disagree with the last portion. Led with crown. Late/questionable hit.
But there's no way he could have known, with his head down, where Adams head was/would be.
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Bears down.
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Packers take the series lead for the first time in decades. Feels right somehow.
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http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/250591/nfl-should-use-its-new-rule-to-suspend-danny-trevathan
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/danny-trevathan-needs-suspended-dirty-hit-davante-adams-034833319.html
That was as bad as it gets. I have to imagine Adams was unconscious for the Packers players to immediately be calling for trainers and medical staff. He definitely wasn't moving while he was laying on the field originally. Thankfully he seems to have movement and feeling. I can't imagine he doesn't have a fairly bad concussion, but we'll see.
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I was on a cross country flight and missed the game live. I'm done with the Glennon era, something isn't clicking either with him or the system.
Thought the Trevathan hit was absolutely awful, really hope Adams is ok.
I don't know how the Pack survive the year with all these injuries.
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I was on a cross country flight and missed the game live. I'm done with the Glennon era, something isn't clicking either with him or the system.
Thought the Trevathan hit was absolutely awful, really hope Adams is ok.
I don't know how the Pack survive the year with all these injuries.
What reason will Fox possibly use now to send Glennon back out there in 10 days? 4 more turnovers last night.
There is talent on this team (WR and the secondary need massive attention). Get him out there now - it's time.
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Romo was right that Glennon has absolutely no one on the outside to help him. Just a bunch of small guys with average (at best) hands. Not saying Trubisky shouldn't play, but he's not going to have much help.
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i didn't realize glennon is being paid over $18 million holy errant passes batman. they could try kaeperdick for way less than half that unless he's busy helping cuba clean up after the hurricane
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What they are paying him isn't really all that relevant. He is completely cut-able after this year so his contract isn't causing cap problems.
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but that was an $18 mil qb last night? they might as well have kept cutler
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Glennon's money is irrelevant in that the QB market gets reset every year, and teams seemingly always pay it. Long term is what matters, and he's essentially on a 1 year deeal.
Glennon just isn't a starting NFL QB, it's painfully obvious. I don't care if they go to Sanchez, but Glennon can't start.
I still insist at some point, you have to find some reps for Trubisky though. Why wait until minicamp for new WR's before taking the training wheels off? I don't remember the exact stat here, but I believe Trubisky had taken the fewest number of collegiate snaps of any top 5 QB ever taken (?). Why couldn't they put him in the end of last night's blowout on the final drive?
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It happens 20 times a game. Usually players don't connect like that. Watch it in real time. It looks less intentionally vicious. If he hits him 6" lower, he causes a fumble and gets praised.
For the record, I fully expect that Trevathan will be suspended but I disagree with the call, in large part because it was so late and wasn't going to be called if he gets up.
Not a Packer nor Bear fan here .. just watched the video as I was curious about this thread.
I agree with MerrittsM here. 6" lower and no one is talking about this. When everyone is going at that kind of speed, 6" is a fraction of a muscle movement and entirely challenging to predict exactly where the runner and defender's helmets will be (to such accuracy.)
The GB player is wrapped up by one Bear but his legs are churning and his one defender wasn't getting him down. A few feet from impact, the defender and receiver are pretty low, crouching, knees mostly bent. You need to tackle low, but Trevanthan couldn't adjust much lower, so what's he supposed to do? Go high? Use his hands drag him down? No, you go low. It was unfortunate at that altitude the helmets connect.
Admittedly, I didn't see any part of this game. If I knew more context, like the defender was behaving badly/cheaply in prior plays, I might reconsider. Looks like an NFL play that given a minor change, a muscle twitch, a half second earlier and the receiver wouldn't have been as low .. would have gone fine.
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Not a Packer nor Bear fan here .. just watched the video as I was curious about this thread.
I agree with MerrittsM here. 6" lower and no one is talking about this. When everyone is going at that kind of speed, 6" is a fraction of a muscle movement and entirely challenging to predict exactly where the runner and defender's helmets will be (to such accuracy.)
The GB player is wrapped up by one Bear but his legs are churning and his one defender wasn't getting him down. A few feet from impact, the defender and receiver are pretty low, crouching, knees mostly bent. You need to tackle low, but Trevanthan couldn't adjust much lower, so what's he supposed to do? Go high? Use his hands drag him down? No, you go low. It was unfortunate at that altitude the helmets connect.
Admittedly, I didn't see any part of this game. If I knew more context, like the defender was behaving badly/cheaply in prior plays, I might reconsider. Looks like an NFL play that given a minor change, a muscle twitch, a half second earlier and the receiver wouldn't have been as low .. would have gone fine.
I don't think he meant to knock him in the head on purpose. But he did it.
Earlier in the game, Clinton-Dix was penalized for defenseless receiver. He wasn't intending to hit him in the head, but he did. And the penalty was rightly called.
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I don't think he meant to knock him in the head on purpose. But he did it.
Earlier in the game, Clinton-Dix was penalized for defenseless receiver. He wasn't intending to hit him in the head, but he did. And the penalty was rightly called.
Maybe I just don't understand tackling or high level football... But my problem was the part where he lead with the top of his helmet
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Maybe I just don't understand tackling or high level football... But my problem was the part where he lead with the top of his helmet
Bingo! Keep your head up. Then maybe Trevathan could adjust. Leading with the crown of the helmet is completely reckless and dangerous. It's like driving with a blindfold on. Intent doesn't matter, the reckless behavior does.
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There are Tweets from national football writers all over the place that say the referees should face punishment for not ejecting him, he will be suspended multiple games, and some even going so far as to say it's as dirty of a hit as you'll see in football.
This wasn't a hard one to avoid Davante's head. Davante is stacked and wrapped up, going nowhere, that's as slowly moving of a target as any NFL player will ever see, and he not only comes flying in full speed but launches himself into Davante's facemask with the crown of his helmet. In those situations you see defenders run in and try to rip the ball out of an offensive player's arm. I can't think of another time I've seen a defender run in full speed and launch himself into that player with his helmet down. I'm guessing Danny's bank account will be taking a hit and he won't be seen on the field in 10 days, and rightfully so.
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Maybe I just don't understand tackling or high level football... But my problem was the part where he lead with the top of his helmet
I actually think that this is the issue that gets overlooked by the league. There's so much focus on WHERE the offensive player gets hit but it should actually matter more HOW the defender hits him. When a player comes flying in with his head down, THAT should be a penalty whether he hits the player in the head, chest, back, etc. That's a play that happens all the time in NFL games but never gets called unless it results in helmet to helmet contact. If you can get players' heads up when tackling, it'll do more for player safety than throwing flags on inadvertent hits to the head.
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Maybe I just don't understand tackling or high level football... But my problem was the part where he lead with the top of his helmet
Watched this about 20 times now, 4 guys gathered around at work, one GB fan and 3 guys who didn't care enough to watch the game .. the vote was 3-1 that the hit was unfortunate but not particularly dirty.
The receiver and defender were going down, Trevanthan needed to adjust even lower but didn't have time and the helmets connected. Oops. At 1/10th speed, you do something different.
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Matthews does something dirtier every other week.
It's football. He wasn't a defenseless receiver. He was a runner. That's not a penalty. The flag wasn't even thrown until they saw he was hurt.
That, in fact, was one of the worst cheap shots I've ever seen. There was zero reason to launch with the helmet from 5 yards away when all of his forward progress was stopped, he was stymied in an upright position by two defenders, and the whistle probably should have already blown.
Everyone gets it. Football is a violent game. Sometimes things happen like Clinton-Dix's late hit. But that damn thing was intentional. It was simply a player who had gotten frustrated for reasons I won't speculate about and took it out on a defenseless opponent.
And to make matters worse, he doubled down justifying his actions afterward. If it were up to me, that would have been his last play of the season. Let's hope the commissioner has some real balls on something important. Because he could have ended a guy's career with that single intentional hit. Thank God that the early reports are positive and that Adams was giving the docs and nurses a hard time wanting to go home from the hospital last night.
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Bears fan.
Bad/stupid hit. No argument there.
My biggest issue with it was that Danny continued to run his mouth after the play. Adams is obviously unconscious on the field have a little bit of awareness of the situation.
But c'mon, no way he is suspended for the balance of the season.
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It happens 20 times a game. Usually players don't connect like that. Watch it in real time. It looks less intentionally vicious. If he hits him 6" lower, he causes a fumble and gets praised.
For the record, I fully expect that Trevathan will be suspended but I disagree with the call, in large part because it was so late and wasn't going to be called if he gets up.
Christ you are such a homer. Take the two teams that were playing out of it and look at it objectively. Let’s say it was a Cleveland linebacker making that same hit on a Bengal player. You would say it was one of the dirtiest intentional hits you have ever seen. He speared with the crown of his helmet, its illegal. You can’t say what if he hit 6 inches lower because he didn’t. If this were Matthews making this same hit on Jordan Howard you would be outraged.
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Glennon's money is irrelevant in that the QB market gets reset every year, and teams seemingly always pay it. Long term is what matters, and he's essentially on a 1 year deeal.
Glennon just isn't a starting NFL QB, it's painfully obvious. I don't care if they go to Sanchez, but Glennon can't start.
I still insist at some point, you have to find some reps for Trubisky though. Why wait until minicamp for new WR's before taking the training wheels off? I don't remember the exact stat here, but I believe Trubisky had taken the fewest number of collegiate snaps of any top 5 QB ever taken (?). Why couldn't they put him in the end of last night's blowout on the final drive?
I've said from the beginning that if the Bears don't think Trubisky is ready then they shouldn't put him in the game. I'm on-board with that thinking. Don't play him just for the sake of playing him. However, if that is the case, Sanchez should be the #2. The Bears could have put Sanchez in for mop-up duty last night and let him dink and dunk down the field against a prevent defense and, unless he was a Glennon-style disaster, they could then make a case for starting him next week (again, assuming they don't think Trubisky is ready). Instead, they've painted themselves into a corner. Glennon's been awful (8 TOs in the last 3 games) and it's hard to imagine sending him back out there without a big risk of losing the faith of the players but they don't seem to want to go to Trubisky.
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I've said from the beginning that if the Bears don't think Trubisky is ready then they shouldn't put him in the game. I'm on-board with that thinking. Don't play him just for the sake of playing him. However, if that is the case, Sanchez should be the #2. The Bears could have put Sanchez in for mop-up duty last night and let him dink and dunk down the field against a prevent defense and, unless he was a Glennon-style disaster, they could then make a case for starting him next week (again, assuming they don't think Trubisky is ready). Instead, they've painted themselves into a corner. Glennon's been awful (8 TOs in the last 3 games) and it's hard to imagine sending him back out there without a big risk of losing the faith of the players but they don't seem to want to go to Trubisky.
Is Fox trying to prove a point by trotting Glennon out there, a guy he didn't want in the first place?
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A co-worker suggested the NFL should suspend a player for a hit like that for the same amount of time Adams misses due to any injury.
Thoughts? Personally I don't like it.
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Bears fan.
Bad/stupid hit. No argument there.
My biggest issue with it was that Danny continued to run his mouth after the play. Adams is obviously unconscious on the field have a little bit of awareness of the situation.
But c'mon, no way he is suspended for the balance of the season.
Yep. And that's exactly what ARodg was most upset about. Look, it was a split second decision and brain cramp. I'm convinced that in that split second it was 100% intentional and for that he should be severely punished by the league. But had he manned up and admitted that he made a terrible, terrible mistake, I think we could all move on.
I will add that Danny has already reached out to his college teammate Randall Cobb and does not have a dirty reputation. But obviously he can take several more proactive steps to demonstrate his contrition and concern for the well being of Adams, both publicly and privately.
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If the Bears think this is a lost season, why trot your future franchise QB out there to possibly get injured or embarrassed? Even if Trubisky is the real deal, he doesn't have much to throw to this season. Keep him on the bench, give him a year to learn the system, keep him healthy, take the high draft pick and get him another weapon to throw to next season. That's what I would want if I was a Bears fan.
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A co-worker suggested the NFL should suspend a player for a hit like that for the same amount of time Adams misses due to any injury.
Thoughts? Personally I don't like it.
You can't set that precedent. What if it's a situation where a star player injures a fourth-stringer? The team puts the scrub on IR with a minor injury and the star sits for the rest of the season.
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A co-worker suggested the NFL should suspend a player for a hit like that for the same amount of time Adams misses due to any injury.
Thoughts? Personally I don't like it.
Bad idea.
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I was on a cross country flight and missed the game live. I'm done with the Glennon era, something isn't clicking either with him or the system.
Thought the Trevathan hit was absolutely awful, really hope Adams is ok.
I don't know how the Pack survive the year with all these injuries.
Most of the injuries are not season ending. They will probably get both Tackles and Daniels back for next game. I would rather sustain the injuries now and fight through it rather than have them later. To me Bakhtiari is the most concerning, he is arguably the second most important player.
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If the Bears think this is a lost season, why trot your future franchise QB out there to possibly get injured or embarrassed? Even if Trubisky is the real deal, he doesn't have much to throw to this season. Keep him on the bench, give him a year to learn the system, keep him healthy, take the high draft pick and get him another weapon to throw to next season. That's what I would want if I was a Bears fan.
Absolutely not. You can't handle him with kid gloves like that.
Even with the lack of weapons, the game time and playing against #1 defenses will help his development.
I'm sure the kid knows the system inside and out already and I don't think confidence will be an issue for him if he struggles, which he likely will.
If he's not starting next week he absolutely needs to be in there after the bye.
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Most of the injuries are not season ending. They will probably get both Tackles and Daniels back for next game. I would rather sustain the injuries now and fight through it rather than have them later. To me Bakhtiari is the most concerning, he is arguably the second most important player.
Props to Lane Taylor. Helluva game. And how 'bout Sitton getting caught with his potty mouth? Kinda funny actually.
Again, I too was skeptical of Ted's move last year but you know what? Taylor's a damn good ballplayer and the O-line is still priced the way it should be on a potential championship team. Ted knew what he was doing.
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The pure dirtiest hit I've ever seen was Martin on McMahon. Not because it's Bears/Packers, but that hit was so far away from the play, and there was clearly intent by Martin to injure McMahon.
I agree that it bothered me a lot that Trevathan kept mouthing off after the play, the medical staff needed to tend to Adams immediately, and watching the teams push/shove/mouth off so close to Adams was dumb and reckless.
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Yep. And that's exactly what ARodg was most upset about. Look, it was a split second decision and brain cramp. I'm convinced that in that split second it was 100% intentional and for that he should be severely punished by the league. But had he manned up and admitted that he made a terrible, terrible mistake, I think we could all move on.
I will add that Danny has already reached out to his college teammate Randall Cobb and does not have a dirty reputation. But obviously he can take several more proactive steps to demonstrate his contrition and concern for the well being of Adams, both publicly and privately.
The fact that he kept running his mouth after the fact is proof enough that it was intentional. If you knock out someone like that by accident, you aren't celebrating. I agree with you, he made a split second decision and he doesn't have a dirty reputation. But I don't know how you look at that hit and say it wasn't intentional and illegal.
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Watched this about 20 times now, 4 guys gathered around at work, one GB fan and 3 guys who didn't care enough to watch the game .. the vote was 3-1 that the hit was unfortunate but not particularly dirty.
The receiver and defender were going down, Trevanthan needed to adjust even lower but didn't have time and the helmets connected. Oops. At 1/10th speed, you do something different.
Watching the first replay or so, it looked,like he snapped his neck, then goes down like a hot rock...didn’t look very good. Yeah, then Danny is shooting his mouth? For what? They down 28-7 or something at that time? Brutal. If he would have at least shown some compassion. Partly because of that I would give him more time out in order to send a message otherwise what prevents this from happening again? Ya gotta protect the players somewhat here. Yes the replay magnifies it, but taking all the above into account necessitates a harsher penalty
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The pure dirtiest hit I've ever seen was Martin on McMahon. Not because it's Bears/Packers, but that hit was so far away from the play, and there was clearly intent by Martin to injure McMahon.
I agree that it bothered me a lot that Trevathan kept mouthing off after the play, the medical staff needed to tend to Adams immediately, and watching the teams push/shove/mouth off so close to Adams was dumb and reckless.
Wasn't a hit, it was a body slam, but yes I agree. What would happen if a player had a towel with a hit list on it in todays NFL. Those Forrest Gregg Packer teams were an embarrassment. Gregg brought in those types of players and coached them to play like that. What a douche.
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The fact that he kept running his mouth after the fact is proof enough that it was intentional. If you knock out someone like that by accident, you aren't celebrating. I agree with you, he made a split second decision and he doesn't have a dirty reputation. But I don't know how you look at that hit and say it wasn't intentional and illegal.
The thing is...Trevathan didn't celebrate. He walked away from the play and a couple teammates came over and smacked him on the back for making a big hit. When Rodgers first came over, he was talking to rookie safety Eddie Jackson (#39) who had congratulated Trevathan. Some Bears also celebrated because they thought they had forced a TO. More players then got into it with Trevathan after that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC9yYkgXX30 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC9yYkgXX30)
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I agree with Merritt's. I also think players get defensive and lash out.
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NFL should use its new rule to suspend Danny Trevathan
http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/250591/nfl-should-use-its-new-rule-to-suspend-danny-trevathan
Thursday's dark episode is precisely what the NFL was trying to address with its offseason initiative. I would be stunned if Trevathan is eligible to play in the Bears' next game, scheduled for Oct. 9 against the Minnesota Vikings.
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For people saying Trubisky should just sit the year, there's a greater point that is being missed here, and I present Adam Shaheen as an example. Where was he last night? Why wasn't he on the field?
It's fine if you're going to be bad, but you find opportunities to get these guys reps in garbage time. Both Shaheen and Trubisky need to find ways to get snaps. It's clear as day the disconnect between the coaching staff and the front office, which is the real problem here.
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For people saying Trubisky should just sit the year, there's a greater point that is being missed here, and I present Adam Shaheen as an example. Where was he last night? Why wasn't he on the field?
It's fine if you're going to be bad, but you find opportunities to get these guys reps in garbage time. Both Shaheen and Trubisky need to find ways to get snaps. It's clear as day the disconnect between the coaching staff and the front office, which is the real problem here.
Yeah, you gotta start knowing what you have. Putting them out there now makes the most sense.
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Most of the injuries are not season ending. They will probably get both Tackles and Daniels back for next game. I would rather sustain the injuries now and fight through it rather than have them later. To me Bakhtiari is the most concerning, he is arguably the second most important player.
Daniels, Perry, Nelson, Cobb, Baktiari, Bulaga - 6 of the top 10 guys on the team have missed games already.
Lovin' 3-1 at this point.
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Like most of y'all, I have been watching football as a pretty darn close observer for many, many years. Unlike many of you, I don't give a rat's rump about either the Bears or Packers. No horse in the race at all. Never liked or hated either team. Don't care if either of them go 16-0 or 0-16.
OK, now that I got that out of the way ...
It was a dirty play. Trevathan launched himself into the fray, leading with the crown of his helmet. Against the rules in any way imaginable. He should have been ejected, and he should be suspended. How long? I don't know those kinds of things, but he definitely has to sit. (I disagree with the eye-for-an-eye thing about the suspension lasting as long as the injury keeps Adams out.)
topper's point that if the hit was 6 inches lower it would not have been as bad is immaterial. It WASN'T 6 inches lower. It got Adams in the head. I mean, another yard, and the Seahawks beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl; but they didn't get the yard, they threw an INT.
It is not too much to ask a weaponized athlete - and a helmet IS a weapon - to know his surroundings and his target before he launches his weapon. Yeah, it's a fast game. You still have to control your body. If you don't, there will be consequences. In this case, the consequences were Adams getting knocked into la-la-land and almost certainly Trevathan getting suspended.
"Intent to injure"? Now that's a difficult concept to prove. I agree with MM that Martin obviously intended to injure McMahon. Most incidents aren't so obvious. None of us can know what was in Trevathan's heart and mind, so I tend to give the benefit of the doubt here.
There are those who think the league has become too "sissified," and these kinds of plays are just "good, hard football." They think rules promoting player safety are "ruining the game." Those people need to kneel at the 50-yard line and take a helmet to the head. Their entertainment is not more important than the lives and health of human beings.
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The whole game is all screwed up. Football has become soft. Now, I'll be criticized for that. You'll say, 'Oh, isn't that terrible...But football has become soft, it's true. The outcome of games has been changed by what used to be phenomenal, phenomenal stuff.
Now these are rough guys, these are rough guys. These guys — what they're doing is incredible, but I watched yesterday in particular. So many flags, right? So many flags. Said to myself, what a beautiful tackle. Fifteen yards! That's it — the game is over.
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Wasn't a hit, it was a body slam, but yes I agree. What would happen if a player had a towel with a hit list on it in todays NFL. Those Forrest Gregg Packer teams were an embarrassment. Gregg brought in those types of players and coached them to play like that. What a douche.
That is all true and I had forgotten. Gregg was a great player but was a dismal coach for exactly that reason.
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Yeah, you gotta start knowing what you have. Putting them out there now makes the most sense.
This is probably a dumb take, based on the capital they used to draft Trubisky, but let's say they put him in starting now, play the rest of the season, and he just flat out sucks. Like there's overwhelming evidence that he can't QB for whatever reason.
The upcoming draft is way QB heavy, and the Bears by all indications will have a top 7 pick, you at least have to consider the thought of taking a QB, if you see now that Trubisky sucks.
Yes, you'll give Trubisky time (more than a year), and yes, he has no WR's that are worth a lick, but you have to start finding out what you have. If someone thinks his confidence will get shaken, then you shouldn't have traded up to take him with the #2 pick in the draft.
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That is all true and I had forgotten. Gregg was a great player but was a dismal coach for exactly that reason.
Yeah, looking back at it, I'm not sure he was right in the head.
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Watched this about 20 times now, 4 guys gathered around at work, one GB fan and 3 guys who didn't care enough to watch the game ..
Who are these "3 guys" and did you pull their man cards?
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Wasn't a hit, it was a body slam, but yes I agree. What would happen if a player had a towel with a hit list on it in todays NFL. Those Forrest Gregg Packer teams were an embarrassment. Gregg brought in those types of players and coached them to play like that. What a douche.
Especially against the Bears. Yeah the Charles Martin incident was one thing, but I remember when a Packer player pushed Payton out of bounds and over the Packer bench. And constant late hits.
I remember being excited for the Gregg era, but it turned out to be a disaster.
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Who are these "3 guys" and did you pull their man cards?
Well done.
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Who are these "3 guys" and did you pull their man cards?
Well, no. And I was one of the three. There was a really good episode of Matlock on last night.
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As for whether or not to play Trubisky, there is no one "right" or "wrong" way here.
A rookie Peyton Manning played for a 3-13 Colts team and took his lumps: 28 INTs and his worst career numbers across the board. But he later said the experience made him a better QB for the long run.
A rookie Elway started 10 games for a mediocre Broncos team and had 7 TDs and 14 INTs. He was clueless, often running before he even gave a play a chance. That same year, a rookie Marino wasn't initially Miami's starter, but when Shula got tired of watching the offense flounder behind David Woodley, he put in Marino and both the QB and the team went on to have a very nice season; of course, that Dolphins team was coming off a Super Bowl appearance. And we soon realized that Marino was a special QB, one of the best ever.
Stafford started 10 games as a rookie and the Lions went 2-8 in those starts. He had 13 TDs and 20 INTs. Winston started all 16 games for the Bucs as a rookie and had a decent season statistically, but the Bucs went 6-10. Pretty similar story for Newton as a rookie - his first two games were spectacular but then he fell several notches because the team (2-14 the year before) mostly sucked.
Roethlisberger had a very good rookie season for an excellent Pittsburgh team.
Going way back, Bradshaw played 13 games and started 8 as a rookie. 24 INTs and 6 TDs - yikes!
Many others sat and watched for awhile. Stabler didn't start until his 4th season. Favre rode the bench his entire rookie year with Atlanta. Brees did the same with the Chargers. Brady threw 3 passes as a rookie. Montana didn't become the full-time starter until his third year. All of them ended up A-OK.
Two of the most famous wait-his-turn cases were Young and Rodgers. One is in the Hall of Fame, the other will join him there.
When you play for a bad team, as Trubisky does, I think you have to trust the coach and GM to know if the QB is physically and mentally ready to face what he would face. Is the protection so bad and/or does he hold the ball so long that you actually fear for his safety? Is he not yet mentally strong enough to handle what likely would be a lot of losing and misery?
Personally, if I don't have extraordinary concerns for his physical safety - in other words, any more concerns than for any QB anywhere - I play Trubisky. Let him learn by fire like Manning, Elway, Stafford, Newton and others did. Whether you play him or not, you're not going to the playoffs, so let him get the experience, let him start to get used to the speed and talent of NFL defenses, let him start displaying some leadership skills.
If Fox/Pace don't fear for his safety but still don't play him, I might worry a little about Trubisky's mental toughness - which is something every QB must have. But I'd worry only a little about that, because who really knows the coach/GM's reasoning? Anything they say would be of suspect truth, anyway.
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Good post, MU82. It really shows that there's no "right" or "wrong" way to bring along a QB.
My concern with Trubisky is that he's never had to make complex pre-snap reads. In the one preseason game where the opponent gameplanned, he looked lost getting up to the line and it was taking him too long to analyze what was going on. One could make the argument that he needs more time in the film room to figure that out...but one could also argue that the best way to figure that out is to get on the field and do it live.
The o-line will protect him but there's not a legit 1, 2 or 3 WR on the roster right now. If the Bears truly want to put Trubisky in the best possible place to succeed right away, they should trade him...I mean, they should let him sit this season while they try to improve the receiving corp before next season. If they want to get him some reps on a bad team and see how he responds, throw him in there.
I've said earlier that, barring injury, they need to wait until he's 100% ready. However, after watching Glennon over the last 3 weeks, it's time to get the young man out there.
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As for whether or not to play Trubisky, there is no one "right" or "wrong" way here.
A rookie Peyton Manning played for a 3-13 Colts team and took his lumps: 28 INTs and his worst career numbers across the board. But he later said the experience made him a better QB for the long run.
A rookie Elway started 10 games for a mediocre Broncos team and had 7 TDs and 14 INTs. He was clueless, often running before he even gave a play a chance. That same year, a rookie Marino wasn't initially Miami's starter, but when Shula got tired of watching the offense flounder behind David Woodley, he put in Marino and both the QB and the team went on to have a very nice season; of course, that Dolphins team was coming off a Super Bowl appearance. And we soon realized that Marino was a special QB, one of the best ever.
Stafford started 10 games as a rookie and the Lions went 2-8 in those starts. He had 13 TDs and 20 INTs. Winston started all 16 games for the Bucs as a rookie and had a decent season statistically, but the Bucs went 6-10. Pretty similar story for Newton as a rookie - his first two games were spectacular but then he fell several notches because the team (2-14 the year before) mostly sucked.
Roethlisberger had a very good rookie season for an excellent Pittsburgh team.
Going way back, Bradshaw played 13 games and started 8 as a rookie. 24 INTs and 6 TDs - yikes!
Many others sat and watched for awhile. Stabler didn't start until his 4th season. Favre rode the bench his entire rookie year with Atlanta. Brees did the same with the Chargers. Brady threw 3 passes as a rookie. Montana didn't become the full-time starter until his third year. All of them ended up A-OK.
Two of the most famous wait-his-turn cases were Young and Rodgers. One is in the Hall of Fame, the other will join him there.
When you play for a bad team, as Trubisky does, I think you have to trust the coach and GM to know if the QB is physically and mentally ready to face what he would face. Is the protection so bad and/or does he hold the ball so long that you actually fear for his safety? Is he not yet mentally strong enough to handle what likely would be a lot of losing and misery?
Personally, if I don't have extraordinary concerns for his physical safety - in other words, any more concerns than for any QB anywhere - I play Trubisky. Let him learn by fire like Manning, Elway, Stafford, Newton and others did. Whether you play him or not, you're not going to the playoffs, so let him get the experience, let him start to get used to the speed and talent of NFL defenses, let him start displaying some leadership skills.
If Fox/Pace don't fear for his safety but still don't play him, I might worry a little about Trubisky's mental toughness - which is something every QB must have. But I'd worry only a little about that, because who really knows the coach/GM's reasoning? Anything they say would be of suspect truth, anyway.
You had me at Peyton Manning...great post.
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Especially against the Bears. Yeah the Charles Martin incident was one thing, but I remember when a Packer player pushed Payton out of bounds and over the Packer bench. And constant late hits.
I remember being excited for the Gregg era, but it turned out to be a disaster.
If I am remembering the same play, didn't Payton have his hand balled up in the Green Bay player's shirt? The guy rode him out of bounds, but I recall Payton also pulled him over the bench with him. There was gamesmanship on both sides back in those days.
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Well, no. And I was one of the three. There was a really good episode of Matlock on last night.
Vikings play at noon on Sunday. I suspect you’ll tune in, yes?
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Vikings play at noon on Sunday. I suspect you’ll tune in, yes?
Maybe. I know how that movie ends, though.
In all seriousness, I grew up in a Viking family .. season tickets (sisters still have them) .. jerseys for everyone .. when there was the occasional TV blackout, dad would pack up the station wagon and we'd go to a hotel far enough away to watch the game.
I think it was that 15-1 season 20 years ago that broke the fever. That franchise will. never. win. the. superbowl. ever.
What'd it take the Cubs? 98 seasons? Vikings are at 56. They'll reach 98 no problem.
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BeeJay’s bin watchin’ a different team den or maybe he’s just dippin’ inta da Skol a little too often, hey?
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Maybe. I know how that movie ends, though.
In all seriousness, I grew up in a Viking family .. season tickets (sisters still have them) .. jerseys for everyone .. when there was the occasional TV blackout, dad would pack up the station wagon and we'd go to a hotel far enough away to watch the game.
I think it was that 15-1 season 20 years ago that broke the fever. That franchise will. never. win. the. superbowl. ever.
What'd it take the Cubs? 98 seasons? Vikings are at 56. They'll reach 98 no problem.
Who wins one first, topper, the Vikings or the Lions?
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Good post, MU82. It really shows that there's no "right" or "wrong" way to bring along a QB.
My concern with Trubisky is that he's never had to make complex pre-snap reads. In the one preseason game where the opponent gameplanned, he looked lost getting up to the line and it was taking him too long to analyze what was going on. One could make the argument that he needs more time in the film room to figure that out...but one could also argue that the best way to figure that out is to get on the field and do it live.
The o-line will protect him but there's not a legit 1, 2 or 3 WR on the roster right now. If the Bears truly want to put Trubisky in the best possible place to succeed right away, they should trade him...I mean, they should let him sit this season while they try to improve the receiving corp before next season. If they want to get him some reps on a bad team and see how he responds, throw him in there.
I've said earlier that, barring injury, they need to wait until he's 100% ready. However, after watching Glennon over the last 3 weeks, it's time to get the young man out there.
If I were a Bears fan, I would agree with you. I am objective ... and I still agree with you.
This is the optimal time for him to learn, when there is zero pressure on him to perform or win. What you hope is that he gets experience and gradually gets better, and then, maybe in Year 3 when you've surrounded him with better players, he has a clue about how to play QB in the NFL.
Again, if they don't play him, what are they saying about him?
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Week 3 ratings up.
Clear evidence fans love it when players protest the anthem?
https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/09/26/nfl-2017-week-3-ratings-donald-trump
Also, on a slightly related front, take note of the item further down about Fox News and ESPN.
Week 3 ratings year over year actually down. The final ratings of all six segments came in Wednesday night, down 3.7% in the 18-49 demo. Down for younger demos also. The SI writer may want to wait until all ratings come in rather than over night Household ratings.
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I can understand why people initially thought that Kaepernick was being disrespectful to the flag and to the military. Kaepernick did not handle the aftermath particularly well and that contributed to his message getting lost in the shuffle, but the fact is "the American people" for the most part have not taken the time to learn what this is really all about. In its very, very simplest terms, Kaepernick and the other protesters want all people to be treated fairly and equally. That really doesn't seem like a topic that would generate outrage.
His own comments early on put him in that spot about the flag.
"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.”
The pig cop socks, the Castro shirt, the $25K donation to a group honoring a cop killer. Not played very well by him.
He has a right to protest and do what he wishes. This is America, but when he does these things some people are going to be mighty offended.
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Oh, you're definitely reaching.
Unlike some, I'm not a snowflake whose feelings for my country are so fragile that I get triggered by others' failure to partake in gestures of forced patriotism. I'm not so insecure in my belief in America that I get offended by those who - in this case, accurately - put its flaws on display.
Nor am I an opportunist who seizes upon this Trumped up controversy as a convenient wedge issue to pander to my base or score political points, all the while proliferating lies about the purpose of the protest.
Nor am I a bigot who views this as an easy opportunity to further the racial divide and denigrate those who don't look or think like me.
It makes no difference to me whether someone stands, sits, kneels, stretches, naps or takes advantage of the short lines in the bathroom during the anthem. Others are free to do as they wish, and I have no desire to judge them for it. I'm not a phony who praises America for the freedom it provides, but demands people be punished for exercising those freedoms if it makes me uncomfortable. I do not feel threatened by those who choose not to hop aboard the jingoism express that often comes with the playing of the anthem at sporting events.
For the record, I have and will continue to stand and remove my hat for the playing of the anthem. Because that's what I chose. But I honor the rights of those who chose otherwise and I respect the hell out of those willing to put their reputations and careers on the line for a just cause in which they believe.
How I was raised.
I was raised to honor the flag and country, same for a moment of silence. The right thing to do, good citizenship and a touch of class. I was also raised to with the idea people can freely protest their gov't or any cause they wish, but there is a time and place. For example, I don't support the Westboro baptists efforts. It's obscene, but they technically have the right to do what they are doing. These players also have the right to do what they are doing, but I disagree with their venue and approach.
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What'd it take the Cubs? 98 seasons? Vikings are at 56. They'll reach 98 no problem.
108. See Daily Dose of Doom thread for therapy...
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Who wins one first, topper, the Vikings or the Lions?
Darn good question. Even the best franchises have a very difficult time winning the SB.
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I was raised to honor the flag and country, same for a moment of silence. The right thing to do, good citizenship and a touch of class. I was also raised to with the idea people can freely protest their gov't or any cause they wish, but there is a time and place. For example, I don't support the Westboro baptists efforts. It's obscene, but they technically have the right to do what they are doing. These players also have the right to do what they are doing, but I disagree with their venue and approach.
Were you also raised to be a condescending blowhard or was that a learned trait?
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These players also have the right to do what they are doing, but I disagree with their venue and approach.
People also disagreed with the women's suffragists venue and approach, to the point they were arrested for protesting at the White House. Later, many disagreed with the venue and approach Martin Luther King, Jr took. That led to him being arrested as well.
The real problem is that people have to protest for equality in America in the first place. The Civil Rights movement was decades ago, but we're still not close to equality. Universal suffrage was granted decades ago, yet our government is hard at work disenfranchising voters.
I wish everyone would stand, but they should stand not out of blind obligation but because this country has truly done everything in its power to create equality for all citizens. The problem is not and never has been the venue or approach, it's that they even have to choose a venue or approach in the first place.
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People also disagreed with the women's suffragists venue and approach, to the point they were arrested for protesting at the White House. Later, many disagreed with the venue and approach Martin Luther King, Jr took. That led to him being arrested as well.
The real problem is that people have to protest for equality in America in the first place. The Civil Rights movement was decades ago, but we're still not close to equality. Universal suffrage was granted decades ago, yet our government is hard at work disenfranchising voters.
I wish everyone would stand, but they should stand not out of blind obligation but because this country has truly done everything in its power to create equality for all citizens. The problem is not and never has been the venue or approach, it's that they even have to choose a venue or approach in the first place.
The problem is in part how one chooses the approach. To deny this is out of touch with reality.
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The problem is in part how one chooses the approach. To deny this is out of touch with reality.
In this case it doesn't matter how they would protest...the same people that are mad now, would be just as mad if they had used different approaches or venues.
You would still have people boycotting these NFL players, and if other NFL players defended them, boycotting the entire NFL.
The fact that you do not understand this shows how out of touch with reality you are.
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In this case it doesn't matter how they would protest...the same people that are mad now, would be just as mad if they had used different approaches or venues.
You would still have people boycotting these NFL players, and if other NFL players defended them, boycotting the entire NFL.
The fact that you do not understand this shows how out of touch with reality you are.
Case in point...Stevie Wonder took a knee at a music festival, not during the National Anthem, and said a prayer during the process, and here is a summary of some of the reaction.
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/nujtiv/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-when-is-the-right-time-for-black-people-to-protest-?xrs=synd_twitter_092617_tds_80
Face it, there is a large number of (mostly white) people who don't like when black people complain.
I said it before, but if these were white players taking a knee in honor of fallen soldiers during the National Anthem, there wouldn't be much outcry.
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Case in point...Stevie Wonder took a knee at a music festival, not during the National Anthem, and said a prayer during the process, and here is a summary of some of the reaction.
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/nujtiv/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-when-is-the-right-time-for-black-people-to-protest-?xrs=synd_twitter_092617_tds_80
Face it, there is a large number of (mostly white) people who don't like when black people complain.
I said it before, but if these were white players taking a knee in honor of fallen soldiers during the National Anthem, there wouldn't be much outcry.
Black players should be "grateful" for the opportunity to play in the NFL. I have never heard that about Rodgers or Brady or Manning or Elway - they worked to get to where they are at.
"Grateful" is just the new "uppity".
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I was raised to honor the flag and country, same for a moment of silence. The right thing to do, good citizenship and a touch of class. I was also raised to with the idea people can freely protest their gov't or any cause they wish, but there is a time and place. For example, I don't support the Westboro baptists efforts. It's obscene, but they technically have the right to do what they are doing. These players also have the right to do what they are doing, but I disagree with their venue and approach.
When you're watching the game at home, do you stand for the playing of our National Anthem?
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Two missed paychecks for Danny Trevathan. About right I'd say.
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Two missed paychecks for Danny Trevathan. About right I'd say.
He'll likely appeal and get it reduced to 1.
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He'll likely appeal and get it reduced to 1.
if the NFL wants to appear to want to reduce the number of concussions, they need to stand their ground. the penalty should have been more along the lines of burfict/cincinnati preseason against kansas city where he got 5 reduced to 3. if they reduce this, the trial attorneys will just add this to their notes-exhibit #2481...next
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Black players should be "grateful" for the opportunity to play in the NFL. I have never heard that about Rodgers or Brady or Manning or Elway - they worked to get to where they are at.
"Grateful" is just the new "uppity".
Grateful is a dog whistle designed to suggest that their ability to make the living they do is due to the generosity of (predominantly) white millionaires rather than their natural talents.
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"Face it, there is a large number of (mostly white) people who don't like when black people complain.
I said it before, but if these were white players taking a knee in honor of fallen soldiers during the National Anthem, there wouldn't be much outcry."
WOW! if i would have said this, well, we all know, but this never would have crossed my mind. who thinks like this? oh, and did i say WOW?
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In this case it doesn't matter how they would protest...the same people that are mad now, would be just as mad if they had used different approaches or venues.
You would still have people boycotting these NFL players, and if other NFL players defended them, boycotting the entire NFL.
The fact that you do not understand this shows how out of touch with reality you are.
So it is a mere coincidence that ticket sales are plummeting, ratings are down when last year it was supposedly just the election and would rebound this year, and people canceling NFL related subscriptions on Sirius, Direct TV, Game Pass? Those are all happening now.
Polls show people support the right of players to protest, but they also show they should stand for the national anthem and show respect. This is the mistake players made. Our President made a huge mistake by using stupid language and saying players should be fired.
I'm pretty sure my view on reality is exactly what is happening.
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Chicos, what’s the atmosphere over on the IU board like? Happy with who they ended up getting to replace Tommy? Have you created more usernames over there or on Scoop?
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"Face it, there is a large number of (mostly white) people who don't like when black people complain.
I said it before, but if these were white players taking a knee in honor of fallen soldiers during the National Anthem, there wouldn't be much outcry."
WOW! if i would have said this, well, we all know, but this never would have crossed my mind. who thinks like this? oh, and did i say WOW?
If you would have said this, you would have been accurate. It never crossed your mind because you aren't paying attention.
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So it is a mere coincidence that ticket sales are plummeting, ratings are down when last year it was supposedly just the election and would rebound this year, and people canceling NFL related subscriptions on Sirius, Direct TV, Game Pass? Those are all happening now.
Polls show people support the right of players to protest, but they also show they should stand for the national anthem and show respect. This is the mistake players made. Our President made a huge mistake by using stupid language and saying players should be fired.
I'm pretty sure my view on reality is exactly what is happening.
Ummm...yeah, what you post here has very little to do with what we were discussing. I pointed out that the people angry about this would be angry regardless of "how they approach" the protesting. The fact that people are angry about it was never part of the debate.
Saying that polls show they support the right to protest, doesn't hold water with actual events. The argument is always that they support the right to protest, but just not in that way. It doesn't matter if it is a peaceful march, signs, or kneeling. People are always still attacking them.
Try to stay on topic.
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Chicos, what’s the atmosphere over on the IU board like? Happy with who they ended up getting to replace Tommy? Have you created more usernames over there or on Scoop?
NM
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Polls show people support the right of players to protest, but they also show they should stand for the national anthem and show respect. This is the mistake players made. Our President made a huge mistake by using stupid language and saying players should be fired.
I'm pretty sure my view on reality is exactly what is happening.
I'm sure you're right. When people don't like the message, they always say "you can protest as long as I don't have to see it." That's why the most successful protests are in crowded areas, at political conventions...and just before the start of football games. They know they'll have an audience.
And this is a successful protest because it has people talking about the race issue. It has a cost, sure, but there is often a cost. MLK and many others paid with their lives - in this case, the NFL owners and perhaps ultimately the players are paying in terms of attendance, possible endorsement deals, and perhaps other things. Kudos to them for recognizing that the issue is bigger than dollars and cents.
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Welcome to Miami Jay Cutler! :o
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If protests don't foment discord and spark conversations, they aren't doing it right.
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Black players should be "grateful" for the opportunity to play in the NFL. I have never heard that about Rodgers or Brady or Manning or Elway - they worked to get to where they are at.
"Grateful" is just the new "uppity".
All of those guys worked hard to get there. Black, white, poor, rich. And yes, they all should be grateful they live in a wonderful country that allows them to make money 99% of Americans would dream of for playing a game. What a country.
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Ummm...yeah, what you post here has very little to do with what we were discussing. I pointed out that the people angry about this would be angry regardless of "how they approach" the protesting. The fact that people are angry about it was never part of the debate.
Saying that polls show they support the right to protest, doesn't hold water with actual events. The argument is always that they support the right to protest, but just not in that way. It doesn't matter if it is a peaceful march, signs, or kneeling. People are always still attacking them.
Try to stay on topic.
In my opinion, you are missing what I am saying. I disagree with your assessment. They are protesting because of these particular actions, that is why I mentioned what is happening now. Some players were taking knees last year, and some fans protested, but not at all at the level they are now. In my mind you are making the error that people would be upset anyway at whatever protests they made. That, in my opinion, is ignoring the reality of what is happening currently and multiplier currently involved. Of course there will always be some people upset, but do you really believe we haven't seen an escalation in the last few weeks? That is staying on topic.
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In my opinion, you are missing what I am saying. I disagree with your assessment. They are protesting because of these particular actions, that is why I mentioned what is happening now. Some players were taking knees last year, and some fans protested, but not at all at the level they are now. In my mind you are making the error that people would be upset anyway at whatever protests they made. That, in my opinion, is ignoring the reality of what is happening currently and multiplier currently involved. Of course there will always be some people upset, but do you really believe we haven't seen an escalation in the last few weeks? That is staying on topic.
Yes, we have had an escalation. Why, because some idiot decided to make it as political as possible and broadcast to the entire US that those "son's of bitches should be fired".
That is the difference that escalated this. Not the protestors, not the message.
History is definitive on it not mattering the method of protest on these issues, just the fact that they are protesting.
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All of those guys worked hard to get there. Black, white, poor, rich. And yes, they all should be grateful they live in a wonderful country that allows them to make money 99% of Americans would dream of for playing a game. What a country.
You ignorant, little, over-medicated creep.
Don't try to distort what I said. White players are never TOLD to be grateful - just minorities. And, there are dozens of wonderful countries that "allow" their citizens to make huge money playing sports.
I have stood and saluted for the flag and anthem my entire life. I will no longer be doing so until the racist pig is out of office. He will not be allowed to co-opt this issue in my life.
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All of those guys worked hard to get there. Black, white, poor, rich. And yes, they all should be grateful they live in a wonderful country that allows them to make money 99% of Americans would dream of for playing a game. What a country.
How about the fact that my colleague, cannot go shopping at his local mall without being asked what she is doing there...simply because of the color of her skin and that she lives in a wealthy area of the city (where their kind is not suppose to be).
That sometimes she (or her friends visiting her house) will be stopped by the police for no reason and have their car searched...simply with the question of "what are you doing in this neighborhood?"
That happens day in and day out for her. What a country.
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Back to football.
Same Old Jay, hey?
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Back to football.
Same Old Jay, hey?
The big question is who is worse. Cutler or Glennon.
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The big question is who is worse. Cutler or Glennon.
I don’t think the Bears beat the Steelers with Jay under center, so I think the Bears have 1 more win on their record with Glennon than they would’ve with Jay.
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I don’t think the Bears beat the Steelers with Jay under center, so I think the Bears have 1 more win on their record with Glennon than they would’ve with Jay.
But Glennon has committed 10 TOs in 4 games. He may be the worst QB in football this year.
We could make the argument that Miami does not beat the Chargers with Glennon as QB.
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You ignorant, little, over-medicated creep.
Don't try to distort what I said. White players are never TOLD to be grateful - just minorities. And, there are dozens of wonderful countries that "allow" their citizens to make huge money playing sports.
I have stood and saluted for the flag and anthem my entire life. I will no longer be doing so until the racist pig is out of office. He will not be allowed to co-opt this issue in my life.
The name calling, really not necessary or productive. I take a low dose blood pressure medication because of genetic blood pressure issues in my family. That is over medicating?
White players are never told this? That's quite a broad statement, are you monitoring everything that is said about players, white, black, Hispanic, etc? It seems opinions are being presented as facts here, but that is my opinion.
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Jamie, you bring that on.
Jockey, you needs some of Jamie's bp med. or some tequila.
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SKOL Viqueens!
NOT
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Yeah, Baby!
Cam outplays Brady (though both were pretty damn good), and Panthers beat Patriots in Foxborough!!
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The name calling, really not necessary or productive. I take a low dose blood pressure medication because of genetic blood pressure issues in my family. That is over medicating?
White players are never told this? That's quite a broad statement, are you monitoring everything that is said about players, white, black, Hispanic, etc? It seems opinions are being presented as facts here, but that is my opinion.
The name calling is necessary. You accused me of verbally attacking your wife, which is an obvious lie. A REAL man would apologize. You are incapable.
To people bothered by my name calling - this is the reason why.
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The name calling is necessary. You accused me of verbally attacking your wife, which is an obvious lie. A REAL man would apologize. You are incapable.
To people bothered by my name calling - this is the reason why.
Sorry, brand, but you should be above name-calling. It really isn't very difficult to slam somebody such as chicos or Smuggles without calling them names. Just sticking to the facts is usually more than enough.
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How about the fact that my colleague, cannot go shopping at his local mall without being asked what she is doing there...simply because of the color of her skin and that she lives in a wealthy area of the city (where their kind is not suppose to be).
That sometimes she (or her friends visiting her house) will be stopped by the police for no reason and have their car searched...simply with the question of "what are you doing in this neighborhood?"
That happens day in and day out for her. What a country.
come on forgetful-you know what? there are some areas of milwaukee, chicago, los angeles, etc etc etc that i cannot go shopping in either because of my hue and i highly doubt they are going to axk me-what am i doing there? well maybe while they are carrying me out in a body bag :(
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Sorry, brand, but you should be above name-calling. It really isn't very difficult to slam somebody such as chicos or Smuggles or (just don't call me honey) boo-boo without calling them names. Just sticking to the facts is usually more than enough. ;)
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come on forgetful-you know what? there are some areas of milwaukee, chicago, los angeles, etc etc etc that i cannot go shopping in either because of my hue and i highly doubt they are going to axk me-what am i doing there? well maybe while they are carrying me out in a body bag :(
Whoa. I don't know you, rocket, but I really hope you're better than this comment.
Now back to the thread topic. Chargers in LA sounds/looks like an Eagles home game. How in the world is LA going to sustain two NFL teams if people won't show up for either team's games? Can't imagine simply building a shiny new stadium will change that. I know the NFL is playing the long game in LA but it seems like an awfully inauspicious start.
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Whoa. I don't know you, rocket, but I really hope you're better than this comment.
Now back to the thread topic. Chargers in LA sounds/looks like an Eagles home game. How in the world is LA going to sustain two NFL teams if people won't show up for either team's games? Can't imagine simply building a shiny new stadium will change that. I know the NFL is playing the long game in LA but it seems like an awfully inauspicious start.
The Chargers need to go back to San Diego, pronto. Leaving was a dumb idea. The question is, could they return to San Diego without new ownership.
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come on forgetful-you know what? there are some areas of milwaukee, chicago, los angeles, etc etc etc that i cannot go shopping in either because of my hue and i highly doubt they are going to axk me-what am i doing there? well maybe while they are carrying me out in a body bag :(
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/trmp1.gif)
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The name calling is necessary. You accused me of verbally attacking your wife, which is an obvious lie. A REAL man would apologize. You are incapable.
To people bothered by my name calling - this is the reason why.
What?
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How about the fact that my colleague, cannot go shopping at his local mall without being asked what she is doing there...simply because of the color of her skin and that she lives in a wealthy area of the city (where their kind is not suppose to be).
That sometimes she (or her friends visiting her house) will be stopped by the police for no reason and have their car searched...simply with the question of "what are you doing in this neighborhood?"
That happens day in and day out for her. What a country.
If this is true as your female friend says, then why isn't she bringing a phone or something to record this and highlight this awful action? Your implication is this happens all the time, so capturing it would be easy for her. She should do this and file a civil rights case. That stuff cannot be tolerated, I hope she exposes them, especially if as you say, happens day in and day out. Easy to capture and do a reverse sting to capture these people doing it.
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If this is true as your female friend says, then why isn't she bringing a phone or something to record this and highlight this awful action? Your implication is this happens all the time, so capturing it would be easy for her. She should do this and file a civil rights case. That stuff cannot be tolerated, I hope she exposes them, especially if as you say, happens day in and day out. Easy to capture and do a reverse sting to capture these people doing it.
this is literally the definition of 'victim blaming'.
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Sorry, brand, but you should be above name-calling. It really isn't very difficult to slam somebody such as chicos or Smuggles without calling them names. Just sticking to the facts is usually more than enough.
I know you are right, Mike. Best I can do is say I'll try. I really will.
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this is literally the definition of 'victim blaming'.
Yep. It would be great if she can get a record of it - or witnesses who would testify - but in the heat of moments like that, my guess is she just wants to get out. And even if she did have video, it isn't like it would be a quick and easy win. Victims are victims.
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this is literally the definition of 'victim blaming'.
It literally is not. Victim blaming would be along the lines of saying he or she deserved it because of what they were wearing, or they shouldn't have been there.
I'm offering a solution to not only her civil rights being trampled on, but presumably anyone else of her race if this is happening day in and day out as was suggested. This is a chance to punish these racists, sue the city or county law enforcement and make it a better place for everyone.
How that is victim blaming is truly beyond me. I'm suggesting an empowerment solution. These people, if they are truly doing this and I have no reason to believe they aren't, need to be taken down. If it is happening at the frequency stated, the opportunity to catch them in the act should be ample. I hope she nails them. No place for that kind of stuff.
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come on forgetful-you know what? there are some areas of milwaukee, chicago, los angeles, etc etc etc that i cannot go shopping in either because of my hue and i highly doubt they are going to axk me-what am i doing there? well maybe while they are carrying me out in a body bag :(
Unfortunately true. Group of kids a few months ago on the pier back east that were beaten in Quincy, MA, caught on video. The high school girl beaten at school for wearing the wrong hat, caught on video. Sad, but people of all walks of life have been beaten, killed, abused for being the wrong color, wrong religion, wearing the colors, or whatever.
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If this is true as your female friend says, then why isn't she bringing a phone or something to record this and highlight this awful action? Your implication is this happens all the time, so capturing it would be easy for her. She should do this and file a civil rights case. That stuff cannot be tolerated, I hope she exposes them, especially if as you say, happens day in and day out. Easy to capture and do a reverse sting to capture these people doing it.
This may be the single dumbest thing I've seen you post.
You haven't changed a bit.
I'm not posting on this topic anymore. I should have never even done so given what this topic is supposed to be about.
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So ...
How 'bout those Panthers?!?!?
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I actually miss previous year's threads when we'd have countless pages of arguments on Cutler.
Never thought I'd miss those debates. I know I should stop reading the thread if I don't like it, but seems pointless to start a "football only" thread that'll go of course eventually.
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You ignorant, little, over-medicated creep.
Don't try to distort what I said. White players are never TOLD to be grateful - just minorities. And, there are dozens of wonderful countries that "allow" their citizens to make huge money playing sports.
I have stood and saluted for the flag and anthem my entire life. I will no longer be doing so until the racist pig is out of office. He will not be allowed to co-opt this issue in my life.
It's almost shocking how willful the ignorance is
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Why is Chicos allowed to come back to ruin thread after thread after thread when he has been repeatedly banned?
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Chico's throws out the bait and we respond like Asian carp. A smaller version of society at large. I am, for the nth time, done with him.
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The big question is who is worse. Cutler or Glennon.
Cutler is head and shoulders better than Glennon. It's not even close.
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Cutler is head and shoulders better than Glennon. It's not even close.
That was my thought as well, I was curious how many Bears fans wish they had him back, at least for 1 year.
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That was my thought as well, I was curious how many Bears fans wish they had him back, at least for 1 year.
I doubt many. Moving on is a good thing and Trubisky is their future.
It's not like the Bears are going anywhere this year.
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That was my thought as well, I was curious how many Bears fans wish they had him back, at least for 1 year.
In most cases, it would have made sense to keep the veteran, incumbent QB around for a season while the rookie learns. However, it was time for Cutler to go. Aside from the fact that he was coming back from injury, the coaches and front office basically tried to used him as the scapegoat for the team's recent struggles. They didn't want him back and he wasn't interested in coming back. If nothing else, they could have brought Brian Hoyer back as a stop-gap for one-third of what they owe Glennon.
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Chicos is allowed back because it's good for Scoop's ratings.
Wait .. Chicos is back?
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I doubt many. Moving on is a good thing and Trubisky is their future.
It's not like the Bears are going anywhere this year.
"It's happening " per Adam Schefter.
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"It's happening " per Adam Schefter.
I believe he meant...
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Ron-Paul_Its-Happening1.gif)
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I believe he meant...
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Ron-Paul_Its-Happening1.gif)
No. Mitch Trubisky being elevated to starting quarterback is against Scoop's guidelines for use of the Ron Paul .gif.
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No. Mitch Trubisky being elevated to starting quarterback is against Scoop's guidelines for use of the Ron Paul .gif.
What do you expect when Marquette focusses recruiting from Chicago as opposed to the Northeast?
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What do you expect when Marquette focusses recruiting from Chicago as opposed to the Northeast?
That made me laugh.
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Chiefs were -7, and total was 48.
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wadesworld after I crowed about the Panthers following their Week 2 win over Buffalo: Good defense or not, the Bills stink, the 49ers stink, and the Saints stink. Even with a fairly easy schedule, the Panthers are in the 8-8/9-7 territory.
Pakuni after Week 2: Hard to say how good the Bills' defense is when you consider they've matched up against two of the most inept offenses in the league. Next two games are against Denver and Atlanta, so we'll see. The Panthers don't need to apologize for their schedule, but fans probably shouldn't be crowing over a 2-0 mark given the quality of their opponents.
OK, wades and Pakuni, we now have the benefit of time ...
The Bills do not stink. They are 3-1, with wins over the Broncos and at Atlanta since our discussion. Two pretty quality wins. They play good D and they have some good skill players on offense. They aren't future champions, IMHO, but they definitely do not "stink."
The Panthers played poorly in losing at home to the Saints (who also do not "stink"), but they played superbly in winning at New England. Cam outplayed Brady, Rivera outcoached Belichick, and the teams put on one of the more entertaining games of this NFL season.
I obviously was being a fanboi when I proclaimed the Panthers future champions, but they are a good team. Not great yet, not until Cam is 100% back from his offseason shoulder surgery (he showed yesterday that he's damn close), but good. Very good front 7 on defense, and a lot of good offensive players even without Olsen.
(Just added: Panthers found out their very good safety and a team leader, Kurt Coleman, will have to miss a month with a sprained MCL. It is the position at which they have the least depth, so this definitely hurts.)
On a semi-related note, the Patriots are a team we should be questioning. That is one horrible defense - hard to believe it's Belichick's. Not much of a pass rush, mediocre LBs, and a porous defensive backfield (although with such a crappy rush, they probably don't have much chance). Brady is still great, of course - although he missed two wide-open receivers yesterday, one for a TD. But he's already been hit a lot this season. The Panthers pounded him. He's 40. How much of that can he take?
I'm still trying to figure out what Belichick was saving his time-outs for at the end of yesterday's game. The Panthers were just grinding down the clock to set up the game-winning kick, and Belichick let them. Why not call those 3 time-outs and put pressure on them to actually make plays? If you stop them and either they make or miss the FG, you then can give the ball to Brady with 40-50 seconds left. Instead, the Panthers kicked the winner on the game's last play.
Maybe Belichick thought he could carry over the time-outs to next week - ha!
Lots of undisciplined penalties for a Belichick team, too. Two critical hands-to-face penalties and a senseless defensive holding on a running play. Those are the kinds of mistakes a crappily coached team makes.
Not saying Belichick suddenly sucks. Just saying neither he nor his team have been up to snuff this season. Maybe he needs to start cheating again.
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Chiefs were -7, and total was 48.
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Chiefs were -7, and total was 48.
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wadesworld after I crowed about the Panthers following their Week 2 win over Buffalo: Good defense or not, the Bills stink, the 49ers stink, and the Saints stink. Even with a fairly easy schedule, the Panthers are in the 8-8/9-7 territory.
Pakuni after Week 2: Hard to say how good the Bills' defense is when you consider they've matched up against two of the most inept offenses in the league. Next two games are against Denver and Atlanta, so we'll see. The Panthers don't need to apologize for their schedule, but fans probably shouldn't be crowing over a 2-0 mark given the quality of their opponents.
OK, wades and Pakuni, we now have the benefit of time ...
The Bills do not stink. They are 3-1, with wins over the Broncos and at Atlanta since our discussion. Two pretty quality wins. They play good D and they have some good skill players on offense. They aren't future champions, IMHO, but they definitely do not "stink."
The Panthers played poorly in losing at home to the Saints (who also do not "stink"), but they played superbly in winning at New England. Cam outplayed Brady, Rivera outcoached Belichick, and the teams put on one of the more entertaining games of this NFL season.
I obviously was being a fanboi when I proclaimed the Panthers future champions, but they are a good team. Not great yet, not until Cam is 100% back from his offseason shoulder surgery (he showed yesterday that he's damn close), but good. Very good front 7 on defense, and a lot of good offensive players even without Olsen.
(Just added: Panthers found out their very good safety and a team leader, Kurt Coleman, will have to miss a month with a sprained MCL. It is the position at which they have the least depth, so this definitely hurts.)
On a semi-related note, the Patriots are a team we should be questioning. That is one horrible defense - hard to believe it's Belichick's. Not much of a pass rush, mediocre LBs, and a porous defensive backfield (although with such a crappy rush, they probably don't have much chance). Brady is still great, of course - although he missed two wide-open receivers yesterday, one for a TD. But he's already been hit a lot this season. The Panthers pounded him. He's 40. How much of that can he take?
I'm still trying to figure out what Belichick was saving his time-outs for at the end of yesterday's game. The Panthers were just grinding down the clock to set up the game-winning kick, and Belichick let them. Why not call those 3 time-outs and put pressure on them to actually make plays? If you stop them and either they make or miss the FG, you then can give the ball to Brady with 40-50 seconds left. Instead, the Panthers kicked the winner on the game's last play.
Maybe Belichick thought he could carry over the time-outs to next week - ha!
Lots of undisciplined penalties for a Belichick team, too. Two critical hands-to-face penalties and a senseless defensive holding on a running play. Those are the kinds of mistakes a crappily coached team makes.
Not saying Belichick suddenly sucks. Just saying neither he nor his team have been up to snuff this season. Maybe he needs to start cheating again.
I didn’t read this whole thing. But I’d be willing to wager the Pats will be in the Playoffs and the Bills and Panthers will be at home watching them.
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Andy Reid stopped the clock with 8 seconds instead of 2-3. Nobody has EVER muffed a snap, recovered it, called a TO and rekicked it in under 10 seconds. That methodology is bonkers.
Also, the end of game lateral play was so half-assed and weak. I hate that play call to begin with, but that wasn't even chaos, it was just eh.
i loved it! after KC picked up the loose ball-i'll bet vegas took one on the chops-in the last 2 seconds, it went from 'skins covering to chiefs winning outright and me winning a little more than milk money for the week!!
what looked like such an insignificant end of the game play was very very significant as they covered the -7(i took the night before) AND the -7 1/2 i took right before game time$$$
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i loved it! after KC picked up the loose ball-i'll bet vegas took one on the chops-in the last 2 seconds, it went from 'skins covering to chiefs winning outright and me winning a little more than milk money for the week!!
what looked like such an insignificant end of the game play was very very significant as they covered the -7(i took the night before) AND the -7 1/2 i took right before game time$$$
Yes, Vegas has certainly taken one in the chops.
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I didn’t read this whole thing. But I’d be willing to wager the Pats will be in the Playoffs and the Bills and Panthers will be at home watching them.
I'm up for a friendly bet.
Let's leave the Bills out of this because I don't give 1.5 shytes about them. (That's right. I actually give LESS than 2 shytes!)
I say the Panthers will make the playoffs and the Pats will miss them; you take the opposite - Pats in, Panthers out. Either of us has to be right on BOTH to win the bet. So if both teams make or miss playoffs, neither of us wins.
Maybe an Andy Jackson just to make it interesting?
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WARNING: This will not please Smuggles, Banny McBannerson and others desperately trying to push a narrative about player protests being the NFL's death knell ...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/10/02/fox-sees-big-jump-ratings-week-4-nfl-coverage/724246001/
The kneeling-related boycott of the NFL hasn’t fully materialized.
Fox’s NFL coverage netted a 12.6 rating and 26 share, a 14% increase over its Week 4 coverage a year ago. The network broadcast one game nationally on Sunday and the ratings were about 20% better than CBS’ singleheader coverage in Week 4 of 2016.
Fox had the top-rated NFL broadcast of the weekend and its best singleheader telecast since 2015, the network announced on Monday.
About a third of the country saw the Los Angeles Rams’ 35-30 upset of Dallas Cowboys with the rest of the country seeing regional coverage, including the Carolina Panthers’ victory over the New England Patriots.
Excluding Week 1, where both viewership and the ability to gather ratings were impacted by Hurricane Irma, Fox reported its ratings had increased 1% over a year ago.
The rating for NBC’s Sunday Night Football was unchanged from last year’s Week 4 game. The Seattle Seahawks’ blowout victory over the Indianapolis Colts resulted in a 11.0 rating and 19 share.
A 14% INCREASE for Fox. Seems compelling games still draw viewers. Who knew? And despite a blowout, NBC still matched its Sunday Night rating of Week 4 last season.
Boycotts rarely have lasting effect. Remember all those baseball fans who said they'd NEVER come back after steroids, or the strike, or (fill in the blank)?
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wadesworld after I crowed about the Panthers following their Week 2 win over Buffalo: Good defense or not, the Bills stink, the 49ers stink, and the Saints stink. Even with a fairly easy schedule, the Panthers are in the 8-8/9-7 territory.
Pakuni after Week 2: Hard to say how good the Bills' defense is when you consider they've matched up against two of the most inept offenses in the league. Next two games are against Denver and Atlanta, so we'll see. The Panthers don't need to apologize for their schedule, but fans probably shouldn't be crowing over a 2-0 mark given the quality of their opponents.
I'll stand by what I said. I'm not drinking the Bills or Panthers kool-aid just yet.
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"It's happening " per Adam Schefter.
This made me laugh.
https://deadspin.com/bad-quarterback-performance-of-the-week-mike-glennon-m-1819106400
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Maybe an Andy Jackson just to make it interesting?
Nice try.
It's Herbie Jackson.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/39u6idkvR5ZlK/giphy.gif)
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Almost screwed me out of a fantasy football win as well. I gotta quit fantasy after this year. I get way too angry about it.
Luckily I had built up enough of a lead where it didn't matter but I scrambled to check my matchup as soon as that happened as I had Hunt going for me last night. I'm sure it screwed a lot of people and I think it impacted the Vegas line as well.
I take fantasy too seriously as well but quitting is just not going to happen.
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I take fantasy too seriously as well but quitting is just not going to happen.
After being in multiple leagues for almost a decade, I decided to take a year off from Fantasy Football...and 4 years later, I honestly haven't missed it one bit.
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Titans sign Brandon Weeden. Ok then.
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After being in multiple leagues for almost a decade, I decided to take a year off from Fantasy Football...and 4 years later, I honestly haven't missed it one bit.
Same! Couldn't miss it less if I tried. And I was in 4-5 simultaneously for years
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Fantasy football is the worst.
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After being in multiple leagues for almost a decade, I decided to take a year off from Fantasy Football...and 4 years later, I honestly haven't missed it one bit.
A major part of it is the connection with friends. For example, I'm in a league with Marquette friends, another with a different group of friends, etc. Plus I love drafting.
Plus it helps while the Bears are stuck in mediocrity.
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A major part of it is the connection with friends. For example, I'm in a league with Marquette friends, another with a different group of friends, etc. Plus I love drafting.
Plus it helps while the Bears are stuck in mediocrity.
So you will never give it up?
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Elon University just released its latest NC poll, including questions about the anthem situation.
https://www.elon.edu/e/CmsFile/GetFile?FileID=1137
First, remember that NC is considered a "purple" state, but Trump ended up winning more easily than expected here, and Republicans control the state government through the heavy gerrymandering they did after getting swept in during the anti-Obama revolt of 2010.
63% disagreed with Trump that players who don't stand for the anthem should be "fired." 30% agreed.
Not surprisingly, there were distinct differences of opinion on the NFL question, based on the race, age, gender and location of the voters. People who are younger, female, black or from urban areas are more likely to disagree with Trump’s stance. Those who are older, male, white and from rural areas more likely sided with the president.
Said Jason Husser of Elon: “While a majority of North Carolina voters disagree with the president that NFL players who protest should be fired, white voters were twenty times more likely than African American voters to agree with (the) president and Republicans were almost three times more likely to agree than were Democrats.”
A couple other interesting issues:
59% said Confederate monuments should stay where they are and not be removed. 29% said take 'em down. I wasn't surprised the "let 'em stay" faction was in the majority, but I was surprised it was so decisive. 88% of Republicans believe the monuments should remain in place, compared to 36% of Democrats. 69% of whites said keep 'em, compared with 26% of blacks saying that. Surprised that many blacks were not against the monuments.
58% of voters disapprove of how Trump is conducting his job. Trump has only a 34% approval rating in NC. 34% is also his approval rating here among Independents. Only 5% of blacks approve of how he's done, and in a small surprise, slighty more NC white voters polled disapprove (46%) than approve (44%).
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Elon University just released its latest NC poll, including questions about the anthem situation.
https://www.elon.edu/e/CmsFile/GetFile?FileID=1137
First, remember that NC is considered a "purple" state, but Trump ended up winning more easily than expected here, and Republicans control the state government through the heavy gerrymandering they did after getting swept in during the anti-Obama revolt of 2010.
63% disagreed with Trump that players who don't stand for the anthem should be "fired." 30% agreed.
Not surprisingly, there were distinct differences of opinion on the NFL question, based on the race, age, gender and location of the voters. People who are younger, female, black or from urban areas are more likely to disagree with Trump’s stance. Those who are older, male, white and from rural areas more likely sided with the president.
Said Jason Husser of Elon: “While a majority of North Carolina voters disagree with the president that NFL players who protest should be fired, white voters were twenty times more likely than African American voters to agree with (the) president and Republicans were almost three times more likely to agree than were Democrats.”
A couple other interesting issues:
59% said Confederate monuments should stay where they are and not be removed. 29% said take 'em down. I wasn't surprised the "let 'em stay" faction was in the majority, but I was surprised it was so decisive. 88% of Republicans believe the monuments should remain in place, compared to 36% of Democrats. 69% of whites said keep 'em, compared with 26% of blacks saying that. Surprised that many blacks were not against the monuments.
58% of voters disapprove of how Trump is conducting his job. Trump has only a 34% approval rating in NC. 34% is also his approval rating here among Independents. Only 5% of blacks approve of how he's done, and in a small surprise, slighty more NC white voters polled disapprove (46%) than approve (44%).
That is the most nfl crap I have ever read.
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Elon University just released its latest NC poll, including questions about the anthem situation.
https://www.elon.edu/e/CmsFile/GetFile?FileID=1137
First, remember that NC is considered a "purple" state, but Trump ended up winning more easily than expected here, and Republicans control the state government through the heavy gerrymandering they did after getting swept in during the anti-Obama revolt of 2010.
63% disagreed with Trump that players who don't stand for the anthem should be "fired." 30% agreed.
Not surprisingly, there were distinct differences of opinion on the NFL question, based on the race, age, gender and location of the voters. People who are younger, female, black or from urban areas are more likely to disagree with Trump’s stance. Those who are older, male, white and from rural areas more likely sided with the president.
Said Jason Husser of Elon: “While a majority of North Carolina voters disagree with the president that NFL players who protest should be fired, white voters were twenty times more likely than African American voters to agree with (the) president and Republicans were almost three times more likely to agree than were Democrats.”
A couple other interesting issues:
59% said Confederate monuments should stay where they are and not be removed. 29% said take 'em down. I wasn't surprised the "let 'em stay" faction was in the majority, but I was surprised it was so decisive. 88% of Republicans believe the monuments should remain in place, compared to 36% of Democrats. 69% of whites said keep 'em, compared with 26% of blacks saying that. Surprised that many blacks were not against the monuments.
58% of voters disapprove of how Trump is conducting his job. Trump has only a 34% approval rating in NC. 34% is also his approval rating here among Independents. Only 5% of blacks approve of how he's done, and in a small surprise, slighty more NC white voters polled disapprove (46%) than approve (44%).
What does your purple state say about Cam Newton right now after yesterday's remarks?
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Cam Newton disrespected and mocked a female sports reporter yesterday. It has been all over ESPN and elsewhere, so y'all probably already heard about it.
The latest is that he already has lost one endorsement because of it:
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article177186726.html?#emlnl=Afternoon_Newsletter&id=bWlrZW5hZGVsQHNiY2dsb2JhbC5uZXQ=
I have been a big Cam fan, and have defended him many times against various charges. I have personally witnessed racist remarks and innuendo directed toward him, and it made me sick. I challenged a couple of the worst ones and almost got in a fight over one. (I've still never been in a fight, thankfully; I really dislike pain.)
I often urged his detractors to look at the big picture: He does a lot of charitable work, he's great with kids, he has a great work ethic, etc - in addition to being a darn good QB, one capable of winning MVP and leading his team to the SB.
However, there is no way to defend this. It was juvenile, wrong-headed and, of course, sexist.
What if Newton had attended a financial conference with 30 other pro athletes and, during the Q&A session, he asked one of the experts on the panel: "I am interested a little in I-Bonds for safety, but won't I get a lot more growth if I stay primarily with equities?"
And as Newton mentioned "I-Bonds," the panelist started to grin. Not a friendly grin, but a smug, condescending smirk. And when Cam finished the question, the expert, smiling broadly, responded:
"It's funny to hear a black guy talk about I-Bonds."
It would have been pandemonium.
Well, sub in "female" for "black guy" and "routes" for "I-Bonds," and Newton said the exact same thing. Pretty disgraceful.
Not that it really should matter, but this reporter has done an outstanding job in her year or so on the beat. I am not an "easy grader" when it comes to these things, either. She is only 25, and she is going to be very good.
She's a good reporter who asked a good question. And Cam acted like a sexist jerk.
I'm a Panthers fan, so I'll keep rooting for the team. I'll keep rooting for Cam as a player, too. And I still won't tolerate racial taunts directed at him or anybody else. But I won't be so quick to defend him for his moody behavior, occasional selfishness, etc.
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It's a big mistake 82 and was totally uncalled for. If it is a true glimpse into Cam's soul then he clearly has some growing to do.
I'll give him a chance to issue a heartfelt apology, both publicly and privately. Look, I cringe at some of the things that folks say publicly. But I'm not 100% sure I could do everything perfectly in front of a microphone. Again, as Coach McCarthy said, 'Let's listen better.'
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It's a big mistake 82 and was totally uncalled for. If it is a true glimpse into Cam's soul then he clearly has some growing to do.
I'll give him a chance to issue a heartfelt apology, both publicly and privately. Look, I cringe at some of the things that folks say publicly. But I'm not 100% sure I could do everything perfectly in front of a microphone. Again, as Coach McCarthy said, 'Let's listen better.'
The problem is that, apparently, he had a chance to issue a heartfelt apology privately when she approached him off the record and asked him to clarify his comments and, from what others say, he made it even worse.
But hey, when things are going well he'll dab it up, dance around, give his charming smile...and then sit and sulk before walking away from his media responsibilities the moment it turns south.
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The problem is that, apparently, he had a chance to issue a heartfelt apology privately when she approached him off the record and asked him to clarify his comments and, from what others say, he made it even worse.
But hey, when things are going well he'll dab it up, dance around, give his charming smile...and then sit and sulk before walking away from his media responsibilities the moment it turns south.
Okay, well that ain't good.
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I am not a Cam fan in any way - he is one of my least favorite athlete's.
But let's face it, this wasn't an attack. He was just shocked over a women talking about running physical routes. He then went on to fully answer her questions although none of the reporting mentions that. He was insensitive and sexist and should be called out for it.
However, tweets from the reporter from a few years ago went far beyond anything Cam said. Completely racist - "The earth moves at 450+ mph that's 10 times triller than NASCAR Dale Earnhart's a "n***a".
Other tweets joked about making racist jokes about indians. Speaking of heer father: "He's the best. Racist jokes all the way home."
If we are going to attack Cam for sexism, shouldn't we be attacking the reporter over much worse?
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I am not a Cam fan in any way - he is one of my least favorite athlete's.
But let's face it, this wasn't an attack. He was just shocked over a women talking about running physical routes. He then went on to fully answer her questions although none of the reporting mentions that. He was insensitive and sexist and should be called out for it.
However, tweets from the reporter from a few years ago went far beyond anything Cam said. Completely racist - "The earth moves at 450+ mph that's 10 times triller than NASCAR Dale Earnhart's a "n***a".
Other tweets joked about making racist jokes about indians. Speaking of heer father: "He's the best. Racist jokes all the way home."
If we are going to attack Cam for sexism, shouldn't we be attacking the reporter over much worse?
I'm not sure why they need be conflated.
They're both examples of bad behavior in their own right.
That said, why is racism "much worse" than sexism?
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I'm not sure why they need be conflated.
They're both examples of bad behavior in their own right.
That said, why is racism "far worse" than sexism?
You're right that one is not worse than the other - in the big picture. But on a case to case basis, either one could be worse.
Here, Cam's remark made fun of the concept that women could understand the nuances of football. Just a dumb, sexist statement, even though he went on to answer her question.
The reporter's tweets, however, illustrated her enjoyment over the denigration of an entire race of people and her active participation in it.
I don't think the two are equal.
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I'm not sure why they need be conflated.
They're both examples of bad behavior in their own right.
That said, why is racism "much worse" than sexism?
+1. I guess my first reaction when I hear derogatory comments is, “Well that’s sad/stupid/sick” and not, “I wonder what kind of dirt I can dig up on the target of those derogatory comments and see how much he or she deserved them directed at her!”
$Cam has a history of this. Let’s not forget he told a group of grade school age kids something to the effect of girls should “stay silent.”
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+1. I guess my first reaction when I hear derogatory comments is, “Well that’s sad/stupid/sick” and not, “I wonder what kind of dirt I can dig up on the target of those derogatory comments and see how much he or she deserved them directed at her!”
$Cam has a history of this. Let’s not forget he told a group of grade school age kids something to the effect of girls should “stay silent.”
That was Jameis Winston.
(https://afrosapiophile.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/get-out-movie-afrosapiophile-21.gif?w=454&h=217)
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That was Jameis Winston.
(https://afrosapiophile.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/get-out-movie-afrosapiophile-21.gif?w=454&h=217)
Are you sure?
I coulda swore it was either Randall Cunningham or Doug Williams.
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Are you sure?
I coulda swore it was either Randall Cunningham or Doug Williams.
;) I see what you did there.
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Tampa Bay is to Kickers, like the Bears are to QBs...they can't find one that is competent.
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You're right that one is not worse than the other - in the big picture. But on a case to case basis, either one could be worse.
Here, Cam's remark made fun of the concept that women could understand the nuances of football. Just a dumb, sexist statement, even though he went on to answer her question.
The reporter's tweets, however, illustrated her enjoyment over the denigration of an entire race of people and her active participation in it.
I don't think the two are equal.
This has become such a weird story.
First, the Observer DID report that Cam answered the question after his sexist remarks. So? That in no way changes anything.
Second, what Cam supposedly said to the reporter was that he shouldn't have said it was funny to hear a female talk about routes but that it was funny to hear any reporter talk about routes - because, ya know, all reporters are stupid. Using my example from earlier about Cam at the financial conference, that would have been the equivalent of the panelist saying: "Maybe I shouldn't have said it was funny to hear a black guy talk about I-Bonds but rather it was funny to hear any dumb jock talk about them." In other words, not close to an apology or taking responsibility.
Third, Cam did finally apologize in a video released by the team. It was the classic "If you were offended, I apologize" semi-apology. The kind you do out of desperation after losing one endorsement and having Gatorade put you on double-secret probation.
Fourth, and then it comes out that 4 years ago, the reporter made some comments/tweets with racial overtones. If one wants to call them "racist," I wouldn't argue.
While I'm not really keeping score about which was "worse," here is what comes to my mind ...
The reporter was 21 when she sent those tweets. That's not an "excuse," just a fact. Many of us did many stupid things when we were only 21. Fortunately for many of us, social media wasn't around to record everything or to tempt us into being publicly stupid. The most powerful person in the free world is a little older than 21 and he can't help himself; he sends a dozen tweets (or more) per week that are stupid, false, racist, sexist, etc. Again, not an "excuse" for the reporter.
Cam, on the other hand, is a grown man with a public platform. He is fairly media savvy - or at least I used to think he was. He was asked a perfectly good question and his first thought was to make a sexist comment. That's not good. As glow said, he's got some growing up to do ... and he's 28.
In the end, neither of them had a glorious 24 hours. But as wades said, just because the reporter did/said something stupid years earlier, it doesn't make Cam's comments any more acceptable.
If I were going to use this as a teaching moment for my kids, I'd say: "Just don't tweet or retweet (or Facebook or Instagram or snap or whatever else) anything that could come back to bite you on the arse someday. Because it probably will!"
I know that I'm glad as hell nobody can come back at me with stupid shyte I said or did when I was 15 or 18 or 21 or 24. It's bad enough folks can come back at me with all the stupid shyte I said last week!
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That was Jameis Winston.
(https://afrosapiophile.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/get-out-movie-afrosapiophile-21.gif?w=454&h=217)
Oops. Thought it was $cam. My mistake. Doesn't change the point that my reaction to someone's derogatory comments typically isn't, "What dirt can I find on the target to make sure the dirt isn't somehow 'deserved?'"
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You're right that one is not worse than the other - in the big picture. But on a case to case basis, either one could be worse.
Here, Cam's remark made fun of the concept that women could understand the nuances of football. Just a dumb, sexist statement, even though he went on to answer her question.
The reporter's tweets, however, illustrated her enjoyment over the denigration of an entire race of people and her active participation in it.
I don't think the two are equal.
I think you're assuming some facts not in evidence about the reporter's intents and participation.
And I'm not going to get on my high horse about someone who laughs at racial or ethnic humor, because I'm fairly certain we all have in one form or another at one time or another. She's an utter idiot for putting it out there for all to see, but tweeting that her dad told a funny racist joke (the content of which we don't know) doesn't put her in the same category as those who marched in Charlottesville.
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I'm disappointed in Cam because it was an offensive, demeaning initial response to a good question. He had a chance to apologize right away but instead just stated that he regretted his actions and mildly insulted Rodrigue's football acumen.
It's even more disappointing when you consider that it really wasn't that long ago that many coaches would have looked at Cam and made him into a TE and it would have had nothing to do with his ability to play QB. Just because a person doesn't "look the part," that doesn't mean that he/she isn't qualified.
Finally, as someone who used to run passing routes in the backyard with his mom throwing to him, I'll be first in line telling people that many women out there know a lot about sports!
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WARNING: This will not please Smuggles, Banny McBannerson and others desperately trying to push a narrative about player protests being the NFL's death knell ...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/10/02/fox-sees-big-jump-ratings-week-4-nfl-coverage/724246001/
The kneeling-related boycott of the NFL hasn’t fully materialized.
Fox’s NFL coverage netted a 12.6 rating and 26 share, a 14% increase over its Week 4 coverage a year ago. The network broadcast one game nationally on Sunday and the ratings were about 20% better than CBS’ singleheader coverage in Week 4 of 2016.
Fox had the top-rated NFL broadcast of the weekend and its best singleheader telecast since 2015, the network announced on Monday.
About a third of the country saw the Los Angeles Rams’ 35-30 upset of Dallas Cowboys with the rest of the country seeing regional coverage, including the Carolina Panthers’ victory over the New England Patriots.
Excluding Week 1, where both viewership and the ability to gather ratings were impacted by Hurricane Irma, Fox reported its ratings had increased 1% over a year ago.
The rating for NBC’s Sunday Night Football was unchanged from last year’s Week 4 game. The Seattle Seahawks’ blowout victory over the Indianapolis Colts resulted in a 11.0 rating and 19 share.
A 14% INCREASE for Fox. Seems compelling games still draw viewers. Who knew? And despite a blowout, NBC still matched its Sunday Night rating of Week 4 last season.
Boycotts rarely have lasting effect. Remember all those baseball fans who said they'd NEVER come back after steroids, or the strike, or (fill in the blank)?
The full ratings were available Wednesday night. Down week over week and considerably down year over year. The LOWEST ratings of the year were this past weekend. You are cherry picking certain games, which is inappropriate. It would be like coming home from the doctor and telling your wife that your heart is in great shape, but neglecting to tell her the doctor found brain cancer and a whole host of other disease, but the heart is great.
For the season, the 18-49 demo Nielsen ratings are down 8.9% vs last year. Down 11.3% in the 18-34 demo year over year. This made worse because last year's ratings were down significantly from the year prior.
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I finally heard Cam's full apology. As these things go, it was a very good one. He shouldn't have used the "if I offended anybody" line, and he should have referred to the reporter by name once. But otherwise, he seemed genuine, he wasn't reading from notes, he seemed contrite, he said "the joke was on me," he mentioned his own daughters and the opportunities he hopes they have to be treated equally, etc. Again, these apologies are what they are, but I thought he did about as well as he could given that he was in damage-control mode. He certainly isn't "cured" from being a sexist, but he's only 28, and maybe this incident will be the first step toward some enlightenment for him. Most people don't change, but some do.
For those curious ...
The Observer, a left-leaning paper that nonetheless does a decent job of going out of its way to give space to conservative viewpoints (no doubt due to their "purple" readership), didn't do the best job of placement in its day-after stuff.
Newton's sexist comments were splashed on the front sports page yesterday, when the front-page "teaser" - given prominence in the upper left corner - was the first thing one saw when looking at the paper. I'd say that was appropriate because Newton is one of the 5 most famous people in Charlotte (maybe No. 1).
But today, Newton's apology was on Page 3 of sports with a small headline (again, it was teased on the front page, but much less prominently than the day before). And the reporter's apology for her 4-year-old tweets was almost hidden in three tiny paragraphs at the bottom of Sports Page 3, sandwiched between the NFL Notebook and an ad for a clothing store. Her apology was the first sports item online, though.
All in all, the whole 24-36 hours was an interesting situation for this former sportswriter.
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NFL hit hard in favorite sport poll. 31 point drop from August in the same poll for men aged 35-54. It also has the highest unfavorability score, meaning it ranks highest as the most unpopular sport in the country.
http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/354365-poll-nfl-drops-as-favorite-us-sport
It should be noted that the group conducting the poll is a right leaning research group. Of course it should also be noted that NFL fans lean right, male, Republican, white.
August Winston Poll
MLB/61 percent favorable to 13 percent unfavorable.
NFL/57 percent favorable to 23 percent unfavorable.
College football/53 percent favorable to 16 percent unfavorable.
College basketball/48 percent favorable to 17 percent unfavorable.
NBA/47 percent unfavorable to 23 percent unfavorable.
September Winston Poll
MLB/63 percent favorable to 16 percent unfavorable.
College football/51 percent favorable to 21 percent unfavorable.
NBA/46 percent favorable to 28 percent unfavorable.
College basketball/45 percent favorable to 25 percent unfavorable.
NFL/44 percent favorable to 40 percent unfavorable.
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Good to see baseball back on top. I can live without football.
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Davante Adams might play tomorrow. Shocking to me in a few ways. That he recovered that quickly and that they'd consider putting him on the field that quickly.
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Good to see baseball back on top. I can live without football.
Spoken like a guy who expects heartbreak on the field again this year. :-\
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Haven't watched enough to be heartbroken. Plus, only those with hope can be heartbroken.
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Good to see baseball back on top. I can live without football.
Honestly, I don't know anyone that watches baseball. I know a lot of people that watch football.
The purpose of baseball for people I know is an afternoon outing with the family (going to a cheap game)...they really don't care who wins or who loses, just hope to get their kid a chance to catch a ball.
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Honestly, I don't know anyone that watches baseball. I know a lot of people that watch football.
The purpose of baseball for people I know is an afternoon outing with the family (going to a cheap game)...they really don't care who wins or who loses, just hope to get their kid a chance to catch a ball.
Baseball ain't so cheap in most big-league cities.
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Baseball ain't so cheap in most big-league cities.
By going to a cheap game, I'm talking about all the promotional games that they are trying to get rid of tickets for. Often for games that will be poorly attended you see promotions for ~$20 a seat. Way cheaper than going to an NFL/NBA game.
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Baseball ain't so cheap in most big-league cities.
A lot cheaper than football.
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That dude with the white parents says he will stand for the national anthem if he gets another NFL job
#principled
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That dude with the white parents says he will stand for the national anthem if he gets another NFL job
#principled
He was offered a backup roll and turned it down.
#principled
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He was offered a backup roll and turned it down.
#principled
What does that have to do with the principles of the protest?
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That dude with the white parents
What does that have to do with... anything?
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This is the worst slate of early games I can ever recall.
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As all those who live in Indiana know, Pence does not miss an opportunity for a PR stunt
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As all those who live in Indiana know, Pence does not miss an opportunity for a PR stunt
Bingo.
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As the VP of this fine nation should. Call a spade a spade and put this dog and pony show on the shelf. Good on Pence. Roger mishandled this matter from the very beginning. He’s a dude without balls, aka capon.
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As all those who live in Indiana know, Pence does not miss an opportunity for a PR stunt
https://twitter.com/PeterAlexander/status/917094805276168192
https://twitter.com/SI_PeterKing/status/917096269029527554
He flew from Vegas to Indy and will fly to California tomorrow. Secret service had to sweep hotel, stadium, etc. A LOT of taxpayer money on a political stunt.
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https://twitter.com/PeterAlexander/status/917094805276168192
https://twitter.com/SI_PeterKing/status/917096269029527554
He flew from Vegas to Indy and will fly to California tomorrow. Secret service had to sweep hotel, stadium, etc. A LOT of taxpayer money on a political stunt.
#BanWorthy
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As the VP of this fine nation should. Call a spade a spade and put this dog and pony show on the shelf. Good on Pence. Roger mishandled this matter from the very beginning. He’s a dude without balls, aka capon.
At cost of over $300,000+ of our tax dollars, plus the wasting time of Secret Service agents, then 50,000+ fans who had to go thru extra security, and the grounding of flights last night and today at Indy Airport bc AF2 was there inconveniecing thousands of air travelers who had planes delayed.
Sounds like a great use of govt resources.
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#BanWorthy
(http://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/snowflake-gif-15.gif)
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As the VP of this fine nation should. Call a spade a spade and put this dog and pony show on the shelf. Good on Pence. Roger mishandled this matter from the very beginning. He’s a dude without balls, aka capon.
Not as badly as Trump mishandled it, hey?
There is 0 chance Pence goes to a game just to leave if he isn’t the VP with a camera on him.
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At cost of over $300,000+ of our tax dollars, plus the wasting time of Secret Service agents, then 50,000+ fans who had to go thru extra security, and the grounding of flights last night and today at Indy Airport bc AF2 was there inconveniecing thousands of air travelers who had planes delayed.
Sounds like a great use of govt resources.
You see what play they just ran? 44 bump fire
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The most ironic thing is that Pence said he didn't want to dignify the event...but then he left....
#thejokeisonyou
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I hate the Packers more than most, but that was a god awful call on Martinez.
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I hate the Packers more than most, but that was a god awful call on Martinez.
Unbelievably awful call. (Loved it tho).
SKOL
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Capers has the boys ready today ;D
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Sorry, Lions.
Panthers = 4-1, with consecutive road wins at New England and Detroit.
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Roethlisberger is done, I doubt he retires mid year, but he's mentally retired already. Be interesting to see how this plays out.
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Sorry, Lions.
Panthers = 4-1, with consecutive road wins at New England and Detroit.
Cam really threw the ball well today. Even without Olsen, the Panthers are much improved at the skill positions than a few years ago.
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Roethlisberger is done, I doubt he retires mid year, but he's mentally retired already. Be interesting to see how this plays out.
He wanted to retire back in February. The Steelers begged him to return.
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Cam really threw the ball well today. Even without Olsen, the Panthers are much improved at the skill positions than a few years ago.
They have a lot of weapons. Funchess and Benjamin are beasts, McCaffrey adds a lot. And hopefully Olsen will be back for the stretch run.
Two awesome weeks in a row for Cam ... on the field. Which lays to waste the whole "distractions" thing. Very, VERY rarely are top athletes distracted during games by stuff that happened days or weeks earlier, no matter how many times the talking heads on TV say it.
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I really like Jones and his running style.
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Un. Real.
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Rodgers=GOAT, period.
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I still have goosebumps from watching that drive, watching Rodgers is like watching Jordan to me. You know he's clutch, you know what's probably going to happen late in the game, and it's still incredible to watch. He's unbelievable, guy is so damn good.
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scored in 62 seconds-BIG WIN!
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Davante Adams might play tomorrow. Shocking to me in a few ways. That he recovered that quickly and that they'd consider putting him on the field that quickly.
I missed the game. Did Davante play?
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Rodgers=GOAT, period.
Well ... no. I'm not sure how an objective observer could look at the body of work of Brady, Montana and Rodgers, and conclude that Rodgers is GOAT. Let alone accentuate that with "period," as if it's indisputable.
I'm in my upper-50s so I have an affinity for Marino, Staubach, Fouts and Favre, among others, but I fully acknowledge that it's pretty hard to put anybody ahead of Brady. I'm not sure what measurement one could use to do so.
Isn't it enough that Rodgers is one of the best ever?
That was one hell of an exciting game to watch, and I don't particularly like either the Cowboys or the Packers. (Don't hate 'em, either.) Rodgers was money, and he won it with his arm AND legs.
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I missed the game. Did Davante play?
He did. He played very well. Like my basketball takes, my medical/football takes are typically wrong. Just from a safety standpoint, I was surprised he didn't miss at least a week.
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Well ... no. I'm not sure how an objective observer could look at the body of work of Brady, Montana and Rodgers, and conclude that Rodgers is GOAT. Let alone accentuate that with "period," as if it's indisputable.
I'm in my upper-50s so I have an affinity for Marino, Staubach, Fouts and Favre, among others, but I fully acknowledge that it's pretty hard to put anybody ahead of Brady. I'm not sure what measurement one could use to do so.
Isn't it enough that Rodgers is one of the best ever?
That was one hell of an exciting game to watch, and I don't particularly like either the Cowboys or the Packers. (Don't hate 'em, either.) Rodgers was money, and he won it with his arm AND legs.
I 100% stand by what I said. Period.
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Rodgers=GOAT, period.
He's one of the greatest, but if I were a Packers fan and I only get 1 SB out of the GOAT, that would make me pretty angry. All the other greats got 2 and sometimes many more.
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I 100% stand by what I said. Period.
I’m starting to agree with you.
Brady has played his entire career for Bill Bellichick. Rodgers has played his entire career for Mike McCarthy. Bit of a “mismatch” there, in my opinion.
(Mac did call an outstanding game today, though.)
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Well ... no. I'm not sure how an objective observer could look at the body of work of Brady, Montana and Rodgers, and conclude that Rodgers is GOAT. Let alone accentuate that with "period," as if it's indisputable.
I'm in my upper-50s so I have an affinity for Marino, Staubach, Fouts and Favre, among others, but I fully acknowledge that it's pretty hard to put anybody ahead of Brady. I'm not sure what measurement one could use to do so.
Isn't it enough that Rodgers is one of the best ever?
That was one hell of an exciting game to watch, and I don't particularly like either the Cowboys or the Packers. (Don't hate 'em, either.) Rodgers was money, and he won it with his arm AND legs.
Agree it's too early to make a definitive GOAT proclamation...but he certainly is on the short list.
Regarding the guys you listed, I agree with Brady, Montana, Staubach, Favre and Rodgers. I'd probably add Payton Manning. Marino and Fouts, not so much. Fair or not, one of the criteria for GOAT (especially with a QB) is the ability to win championships. I don't think its necessarily the final determinant, but IMHO you need at least one to get on the list - neither Marino nor Fouts had a single one. In fact, my suspicion - correct me if I'm wrong - is that that's the reason you said it's pretty hard to put anyone above Brady. Guys like Favre and Rodgers have better stats than Brady in a number of categories, but Brady has a big lead in rings.
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He's one of the greatest, but if I were a Packers fan and I only get 1 SB out of the GOAT, that would make me pretty angry. All the other greats got 2 and sometimes many more.
Marino=0
Favre=1
It's a team game. The difference in the top 1% of all time QBs is negligible. What were the other factors? Coaching, teammates, injuries, luck, etc. Rodgers clearly in that top group.
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Rodgers has won in spite of McCarthy most of the time. In spite of his defense. In spite of an o-line that always seems banged up and patched together in his prime. What happens when Packer wideouts go elsewhere? Nothing, average at best. Who's the best offensive skill player Rodgers has played with? Who can scramble like Rodgers and still be one of the most accurate QB's ever? He leads the world in getting teams offside and 12 men on the field penalties. He's clutch as eff. I know Brady's great, and I've watched football for 38 years, and the Dish eye test is Rodgers GOAT.
I'll be back with other blazing hot takes after I put my kids to bed.
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Rodgers is the most talented QB I have ever seen play the game.
Does most talented QB = GOAT, sure why the hell not. Go pack go.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a6/1b/b4/a61bb47aa8dd0d8fcc2a5466a88757e6.jpg)
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I'm going to highlight 4 offensive guys that stood out.
Adams - out of the hospital to hero. Guy played a great game and called for the ball with Jordy dinged.
Jones - kid had a helluva game. Showed the same instinct and burst in the pre-season. Confident in him being a solid #2 enabling Monty to take fewer reps.
Taylor - never played OT in his life and has done a great job filling in in two back to back wins. Absolutely outstanding and was a great contract sign a few weeks back.
McCray - lunch pail guy who has earned multiple starts after an Arena career and done a very solid job.
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Rodgers has won in spite of McCarthy most of the time. In spite of his defense. In spite of an o-line that always seems banged up and patched together in his prime. What happens when Packer wideouts go elsewhere? Nothing, average at best. Who's the best offensive skill player Rodgers has played with? Who can scramble like Rodgers and still be one of the most accurate QB's ever? He leads the world in getting teams offside and 12 men on the field penalties. He's clutch as eff. I know Brady's great, and I've watched football for 38 years, and the Dish eye test is Rodgers GOAT.
I'll be back with other blazing hot takes after I put my kids to bed.
5 Rings > Drawing offsides penalties ;)
In other news, JJ Watt just tore his ACL.
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I'm going to highlight 4 offensive guys that stood out.
Adams - out of the hospital to hero. Guy played a great game and called for the ball with Jordy dinged.
Jones - kid had a helluva game. Showed the same instinct and burst in the pre-season. Confident in him being a solid #2 enabling Monty to take fewer reps.
Taylor - never played OT in his life and has done a great job filling in in two back to back wins. Absolutely outstanding and was a great contract sign a few weeks back.
McCray - lunch pail guy who has earned multiple starts after an Arena career and done a very solid job.
I would also add Bennett. His drops the previous few weeks have been frustrating, but even if he isn't contributing in terms of receiving yards and touchdowns, his blocking both in the passing game and the running game have been incredible. Every time I pay attention to him he's chipping on a guy or straight up staying in and blocking. Also had 2 big time catches today, one a catch and run and the other a very nice diving/falling catch.
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Aaron is in the discussion, and one thing I think we can agree on is that he's passed Favre on that list. He is so athletically gifted and yet fundamentally sound. Favre was a joy to watch because you knew he was making it up as he went along. Rodgers is exciting for entirely different reasons, but everything he does feels calculated.
I don't know if he gets another ring, but it won't be because of him. I'm not sure another quarterback has won DESPITE his team as much as Rodgers. This isn't to say he doesn't have talent or hasn't had talent around him - that would be insulting to players like Jordy. But he has overcome deficiencies at just about every other position - OL, WR, RB, and defense like no one else. Hell, he almost beat the Cards single-handedly two years ago.
Brady is probably near the top (still behind Montana in my book). Cite the championships all you want, but Brady doesn't pull this drive out today with the pressure Rodgers was under. He doesn't pull an 18 yard run out of thin air with the game on the line. Brady's game is predicated on being kept upright and stationary, and the Pats have done an exceptional job of that over the course of his career.
I don't know who ranks where when the dust settles, but I do know that Rodgers is as fun as hell to watch like no one currently in the league.
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I would also add Bennett. His drops the previous few weeks have been frustrating, but even if he isn't contributing in terms of receiving yards and touchdowns, his blocking both in the passing game and the running game have been incredible. Every time I pay attention to him he's chipping on a guy or straight up staying in and blocking. Also had 2 big time catches today, one a catch and run and the other a very nice diving/falling catch.
Excellent point. Marty played well.
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I'm going to highlight 4 offensive guys that stood out.
Adams - out of the hospital to hero. Guy played a great game and called for the ball with Jordy dinged.
Jones - kid had a helluva game. Showed the same instinct and burst in the pre-season. Confident in him being a solid #2 enabling Monty to take fewer reps.
Taylor - never played OT in his life and has done a great job filling in in two back to back wins. Absolutely outstanding and was a great contract sign a few weeks back.
McCray - lunch pail guy who has earned multiple starts after an Arena career and done a very solid job.
Loved Jones running style coming out of school: quick, if not fast. Reminds me of Devonta Freeman a bit.
I'll add Damarious Randall. He gave up a TD on fantastic coverage, but Dak had an even better throw. I honestly don't care about the pick-6 since it's a bit luck of the draw. But he was very sound the rest of the night. Hope that is a turning point for him.
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Loved Jones running style coming out of school: quick, if not fast. Reminds me of Devonta Freeman a bit.
I'll add Damarious Randall. He gave up a TD on fantastic coverage, but Dak had an even better throw. I honestly don't care about the pick-6 since it's a bit luck of the draw. But he was very sound the rest of the night. Hope that is a turning point for him.
Was it Randall or Rollins who made the tackle on a 3rd and long screen pass? I can’t even remember when the play happened in the game but it got our defense off the field with the stop around midfield. He was the only defender close to the play and they had 2 blockers on him and he split the block and made an ankle tackle. That was a great and huge play.
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Loved Jones running style coming out of school: quick, if not fast. Reminds me of Devonta Freeman a bit.
I'll add Damarious Randall. He gave up a TD on fantastic coverage, but Dak had an even better throw. I honestly don't care about the pick-6 since it's a bit luck of the draw. But he was very sound the rest of the night. Hope that is a turning point for him.
If we're talking young guys on D, there's only one who's earning game ball after game ball.
Martinez.
That said I like several young guys including Clark, King and Jones.
Was it Randall or Rollins who made the tackle on a 3rd and long screen pass? I can’t even remember when the play happened in the game but it got our defense off the field with the stop around midfield. He was the only defender close to the play and they had 2 blockers on him and he split the block and made an ankle tackle. That was a great and huge play.
Q.
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If we're talking young guys on D, there's only one who's earning game ball after game ball.
Martinez.
That said I like several young guys including Clark, King and Jones.
Q.
Agree - Martinez has really made himself irreplaceable on a defense where Dom wants nothing more than to get rid of all ILB and replace them with safeties. Clark has also made a noticeable and consistent jump.
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5 Rings > Drawing offsides penalties ;)
In other news, JJ Watt just tore his ACL.
Tibial plateau fracture. Ouch.
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Tibial plateau fracture. Ouch.
Likely done for the season. That'll be only 7 games played and 1.5 sacks for him over 2 seasons. He had an all-time 4-year run but this could be about it for him as a dominant/Pro Bowl caliber player.
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Aaron is in the discussion, and one thing I think we can agree on is that he's passed Favre on that list. He is so athletically gifted and yet fundamentally sound. Favre was a joy to watch because you knew he was making it up as he went along. Rodgers is exciting for entirely different reasons, but everything he does feels calculated.
I don't know if he gets another ring, but it won't be because of him. I'm not sure another quarterback has won DESPITE his team as much as Rodgers. This isn't to say he doesn't have talent or hasn't had talent around him - that would be insulting to players like Jordy. But he has overcome deficiencies at just about every other position - OL, WR, RB, and defense like no one else. Hell, he almost beat the Cards single-handedly two years ago.
Brady is probably near the top (still behind Montana in my book). Cite the championships all you want, but Brady doesn't pull this drive out today with the pressure Rodgers was under. He doesn't pull an 18 yard run out of thin air with the game on the line. Brady's game is predicated on being kept upright and stationary, and the Pats have done an exceptional job of that over the course of his career.
I don't know who ranks where when the dust settles, but I do know that Rodgers is as fun as hell to watch like no one currently in the league.
Don't get me wrong; I'm a big Rodgers fan. One of the best I've seen, to be sure.
But again, you substitute opinion for fact: "Cite the championships all you want, but Brady doesn't pull this drive out today with the pressure Rodgers was under."
Brady has pulled out a few games under great pressure, including his very first championship. There are different ways to "escape" pressure aside from using one's legs. Quick release, guile, ability to read the D quickly, "clock in the head" telling when to throw away, etc.
The Panthers pounded Brady last week. Pounded him. Yet he advanced the ball to set up a FG at the end of the first half after getting the ball with only about 30 seconds left, and then he rallied the Pats from a 14-point fourth-quarter deficit. Against a darn good defensive team that hounded him and pounded him all day.
Obviously, just one example.
It's easy to say Brady doesn't pull out that game, but then I could say Rodgers doesn't pull out last year's Super Bowl. It would be no less impossible to prove.
Rodgers has won in spite of McCarthy most of the time. In spite of his defense. In spite of an o-line that always seems banged up and patched together in his prime. What happens when Packer wideouts go elsewhere? Nothing, average at best. Who's the best offensive skill player Rodgers has played with? Who can scramble like Rodgers and still be one of the most accurate QB's ever? He leads the world in getting teams offside and 12 men on the field penalties. He's clutch as eff. I know Brady's great, and I've watched football for 38 years, and the Dish eye test is Rodgers GOAT.
Again, no way to prove this.
Rodgers is the most talented QB I have ever seen play the game.
Does most talented QB = GOAT, sure why the hell not. Go pack go.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a6/1b/b4/a61bb47aa8dd0d8fcc2a5466a88757e6.jpg)
Or this.
But these conversations are fun, and they are one of the things I love about sports.
One "advantage" I have over some of y'all is that I have no horse in this race. I love watching great athletes do their thing, and I really enjoy watching Rodgers play, but I really don't care if he and the Packers win or lose.
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5 Rings > Drawing offsides penalties ;)
In other news, JJ Watt just tore his ACL.
In the Brady vs Rodgers argument, look at the Pats when Brady was out. 11-5 when he tore his ACL in week 1 in 2008. Team also went 3-1 last year while he was suspended.
I don't remember the exact record, but when Rodgers broke his collarbone, I believe the Pack went something like 1-3-1, and they looked terrible without him. The Pats move on to next QB up when Brady goes out.
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Don't get me wrong; I'm a big Rodgers fan. One of the best I've seen, to be sure.
But again, you substitute opinion for fact: "Cite the championships all you want, but Brady doesn't pull this drive out today with the pressure Rodgers was under."
Brady has pulled out a few games under great pressure, including his very first championship. There are different ways to "escape" pressure aside from using one's legs. Quick release, guile, ability to read the D quickly, "clock in the head" telling when to throw away, etc.
The Panthers pounded Brady last week. Pounded him. Yet he advanced the ball to set up a FG at the end of the first half after getting the ball with only about 30 seconds left, and then he rallied the Pats from a 14-point fourth-quarter deficit. Against a darn good defensive team that hounded him and pounded him all day.
Obviously, just one example.
It's easy to say Brady doesn't pull out that game, but then I could say Rodgers doesn't pull out last year's Super Bowl. It would be no less impossible to prove.
Again, no way to prove this.
Or this.
But these conversations are fun, and they are one of the things I love about sports.
One "advantage" I have over some of y'all is that I have no horse in this race. I love watching great athletes do their thing, and I really enjoy watching Rodgers play, but I really don't care if he and the Packers win or lose.
There's no way to prove that Packer wideouts that go to other teams are marginal at best without Rodgers? There's no way to statistically prove Rodgers leads the world in opponent offsides and 12 men on the field penalties?
Interesting.
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In the Brady vs Rodgers argument, look at the Pats when Brady was out. 11-5 when he tore his ACL in week 1 in 2008. Team also went 3-1 last year while he was suspended.
I don't remember the exact record, but when Rodgers broke his collarbone, I believe the Pack went something like 1-3-1, and they looked terrible without him. The Pats move on to next QB up when Brady goes out.
I agree with this argument re. Rodgers vs. Brady. Brady is great because of the offensive line and system. Rodgers is great, because of Rodgers.
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There's no way to prove that Packer wideouts that go to other teams are marginal at best without Rodgers? There's no way to statistically prove Rodgers leads the world in opponent offsides and 12 men on the field penalties?
Interesting.
In 2013, the Packers picked up Matt Flynn off the scrap heap with Rodgers injured and threw him into 4 games. He won 2 of them, completing 61% of his passes for 1146 yds, 7 TDs and 4 INTs. His earlier success as a GB understudy won him a huge contract from Seattle, where he stunk. He also stunk with Buffalo and Oakland.
He is one guy the crappy McCarthy system seemed to work OK for.
In 2014, James Jones went to Oakland and set a career high with 73 catches, had his second best catch percentage and had his 4th most TDs. He didn't gain nearly as many yards per catch as he had in GB, when he was surrounded by other talented receivers (as well as Rodgers, of course). David Carr was a clueless rookie who "led" Oakland to a 3-13 record that season.
One QB we all have forgotten to mention so far: John Elway. He didn't miss many games because he was very durable, but in 1992, he did miss 4. The Broncos were 8-4 with Elway, 0-4 without him, costing them a playoff spot. Mark Jackson and Arthur Marshall were standouts with Elway throwing to them; they did nothing elsewhere.
I'm too lazy to do this exercise with other QBs. Again, I'm not sure what it would "prove."
Hey, I really don't want to argue against Rodgers. He's a hell of a QB, one of the best I've seen. But the only thing that anybody saying he's better than Tom Brady - "period" - means is that the person who said it is a Packers fan - period. Nothing wrong with that. I stand by my faves, too!
I'm guessing Patriots fans would be able to pull up a few stats to back their guy, including lots of impressive numbers, dozens of incredible comeback victories and ... oh yeah ... 7 SB appearances and 5 championships. Period.
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Don't get me wrong; I'm a big Rodgers fan. One of the best I've seen, to be sure.
But again, you substitute opinion for fact: "Cite the championships all you want, but Brady doesn't pull this drive out today with the pressure Rodgers was under."
Brady has pulled out a few games under great pressure, including his very first championship. There are different ways to "escape" pressure aside from using one's legs. Quick release, guile, ability to read the D quickly, "clock in the head" telling when to throw away, etc.
The Panthers pounded Brady last week. Pounded him. Yet he advanced the ball to set up a FG at the end of the first half after getting the ball with only about 30 seconds left, and then he rallied the Pats from a 14-point fourth-quarter deficit. Against a darn good defensive team that hounded him and pounded him all day.
Obviously, just one example.
It's easy to say Brady doesn't pull out that game, but then I could say Rodgers doesn't pull out last year's Super Bowl. It would be no less impossible to prove.
Again, no way to prove this.
Or this.
But these conversations are fun, and they are one of the things I love about sports.
One "advantage" I have over some of y'all is that I have no horse in this race. I love watching great athletes do their thing, and I really enjoy watching Rodgers play, but I really don't care if he and the Packers win or lose.
You love telling everyone who will listen at every chance you get that you have the "advantage of having no horse in the race," and then go on to say, "But the Brewers very well could be 10 games back after next week!" I think you bring it up in every post you make in a Packers/Brewers discussion.
If anything, Dish has a reason to hate Rodgers and deny that he is a great quarterback. He's a Bears fan.
In the Brady vs Rodgers argument, look at the Pats when Brady was out. 11-5 when he tore his ACL in week 1 in 2008. Team also went 3-1 last year while he was suspended.
I don't remember the exact record, but when Rodgers broke his collarbone, I believe the Pack went something like 1-3-1, and they looked terrible without him. The Pats move on to next QB up when Brady goes out.
I believe, but don't remember for certain, that the Packers were 0-5-1 (maybe including the game in which he got injured?). I am 99% sure they did not win a game during the stretch that he was out, and certain they had 1 tie in there.
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In 2013, the Packers picked up Matt Flynn off the scrap heap with Rodgers injured and threw him into 4 games. He won 2 of them, completing 61% of his passes for 1146 yds, 7 TDs and 4 INTs. His earlier success as a GB understudy won him a huge contract from Seattle, where he stunk. He also stunk with Buffalo and Oakland.
He is one guy the crappy McCarthy system seemed to work OK for.
In 2014, James Jones went to Oakland and set a career high with 73 catches, had his second best catch percentage and had his 4th most TDs. He didn't gain nearly as many yards per catch as he had in GB, when he was surrounded by other talented receivers (as well as Rodgers, of course). David Carr was a clueless rookie who "led" Oakland to a 3-13 record that season.
One QB we all have forgotten to mention so far: John Elway. He didn't miss many games because he was very durable, but in 1992, he did miss 4. The Broncos were 8-4 with Elway, 0-4 without him, costing them a playoff spot. Mark Jackson and Arthur Marshall were standouts with Elway throwing to them; they did nothing elsewhere.
I'm too lazy to do this exercise with other QBs. Again, I'm not sure what it would "prove."
Hey, I really don't want to argue against Rodgers. He's a hell of a QB, one of the best I've seen. But the only thing that anybody saying he's better than Tom Brady - "period" - means is that the person who said it is a Packers fan - period. Nothing wrong with that. I stand by my faves, too!
I'm guessing Patriots fans would be able to pull up a few stats to back their guy, including lots of impressive numbers, dozens of incredible comeback victories and ... oh yeah ... 7 SB appearances and 5 championships. Period.
Uhh, well, uhm...no. Dish is a Bears fan...
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You love telling everyone who will listen at every chance you get that you have the "advantage of having no horse in the race," and then go on to say, "But the Brewers very well could be 10 games back after next week!" I think you bring it up in every post you make in a Packers/Brewers discussion.
If anything, Dish has a reason to hate Rodgers and deny that he is a great quarterback. He's a Bears fan.
I believe, but don't remember for certain, that the Packers were 0-5-1 (maybe including the game in which he got injured?). I am 99% sure they did not win a game during the stretch that he was out, and certain they had 1 tie in there.
First, I sit corrected on Dish. As a Bears fan, his brain obviously has been turned to mush by Rodgers so often he can't think straight - ha! Seriously, thanks. I don't like getting my facts wrong. My opinions end up being wrong sometimes, so I at least like getting facts right!
Second, I respectfully submit that much of your recollection about the 2013 Packers is wrong.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlynMa00.htm
Flynn's starts and results are just what I said they were.
Here is his week-by-week record that year:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlynMa00/gamelog/2013/
Note the spectacular stats in the 1-point victories over Atlanta and Dallas in successive weeks; the Packers do not win the division without those performances by Flynn.
Furthermore, here's what was in the Packers' 2013 "Dope Sheet" (http://prod.static.packers.clubs.nfl.com//assets/docs/dopesheet/2014/140130dopesheet.pdf):
FLYNN IN THE FOURTH
In Green Bay’s comeback win at Dallas in Week 15, QB Matt Flynn had a strong showing in the fourth quarter, connecting on nine of 12 passes for 99 yards and two TDs for a 138.5 passer rating.
After coming on in relief of Scott Tolzien in the second half of the Week 12 contest, Flynn had had a lot of success in the fourth quarter of games. He posted a 125.5 passer rating in the final quarter, completing 33 of 46 passes for 383 yards and four TDs with no INTs.
Flynn’s fourth-quarter passer rating since Week 12 ranked No. 1 in the NFL over that span.
In the Week 15 win at Dallas, Flynn became the first QB in franchise history to throw four TD passes in a second half.
You were right about the tie: 26-26 against the Vikings. In that game, as ESPN reported:
Backup quarterback Matt Flynn threw for 218 yards to help the Packers storm back from a 16-point deficit for a 26-26 tie as the Minnesota Vikings and Green Bay could only muster field goals in overtime Sunday.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/game?gameId=331124009
Lastly, I really don't care if the Packers win or lose. Or the Brewers. I said the Cubs would win the division going away because I thought they would (and I ended up being pretty correct). If I felt the Brewers would win the division, I would have said so.
I bring up that I don't have a horse in the race because I think it's material to do so. I don't "love" or "hate" any of these teams.
What I do love is watching Aaron Rodgers play. He's one of the best QBs I've ever seen.
Saying he's better than Tom Brady ... there's little to no basis for it.
Oh, and I'm no Brady fan, either - except that I also love watching him play.
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For the record, if we're picking on the two game sample size of Matt Flynn in 2013, he beat an incredibly mediocre Cowboy team, and a horse manure Falcon team that quit on Mike Smith and went 4-12. Just sayin.
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I am confident that if you were somehow able to clone every player/coach on a team except the quarterback and you made two teams of these clones and put Aaron Rodgers in charge of one and any other quarterback in charge of the other....Rodgers would win.
I of course have no way to prove this, but I 100% believe it to be true.
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If the playoffs were today, seeding in the AFC would be as follows:
1. Cheifs
2. Bills
3. Jaguars
4. Steelers
5. Broncos
6. Ravens
First team out of the playoffs: Jets
If anyone says they saw this coming at this point in the season I will slap them and call them a liar. Long way to go but the parity in the AFC is unreal.
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What I do love is watching Aaron Rodgers play. He's one of the best QBs I've ever seen.
Saying he's better than Tom Brady ... there's little to no basis for it.
Oh, and I'm no Brady fan, either - except that I also love watching him play.
This is a great discussion to have - even though there is no way to know the answer. I do posit, though, that if you switched the two teams' defenses for the last nine years, AR would have more rings than Brady.
Of course there is no proof - just my feeling. We'll see what Tom does this year with a Packers-esque defense in New England.
I'm not arguing that Arod is the greatest ever. I would have him in the top 5 with a chance to move up. I still put Brady, Manning, and Montana at the top for now, but remember, Montana also had some great defenses to help him out. Like Arod, Manning always had his team in the hunt in Indy despite some brutal defenses.
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First, I sit corrected on Dish. As a Bears fan, his brain obviously has been turned to mush by Rodgers so often he can't think straight - ha! Seriously, thanks. I don't like getting my facts wrong. My opinions end up being wrong sometimes, so I at least like getting facts right!
Second, I respectfully submit that much of your recollection about the 2013 Packers is wrong.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlynMa00.htm
Flynn's starts and results are just what I said they were.
Here is his week-by-week record that year:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlynMa00/gamelog/2013/
Note the spectacular stats in the 1-point victories over Atlanta and Dallas in successive weeks; the Packers do not win the division without those performances by Flynn.
Furthermore, here's what was in the Packers' 2013 "Dope Sheet" (http://prod.static.packers.clubs.nfl.com//assets/docs/dopesheet/2014/140130dopesheet.pdf):
FLYNN IN THE FOURTH
In Green Bay’s comeback win at Dallas in Week 15, QB Matt Flynn had a strong showing in the fourth quarter, connecting on nine of 12 passes for 99 yards and two TDs for a 138.5 passer rating.
After coming on in relief of Scott Tolzien in the second half of the Week 12 contest, Flynn had had a lot of success in the fourth quarter of games. He posted a 125.5 passer rating in the final quarter, completing 33 of 46 passes for 383 yards and four TDs with no INTs.
Flynn’s fourth-quarter passer rating since Week 12 ranked No. 1 in the NFL over that span.
In the Week 15 win at Dallas, Flynn became the first QB in franchise history to throw four TD passes in a second half.
You were right about the tie: 26-26 against the Vikings. In that game, as ESPN reported:
Backup quarterback Matt Flynn threw for 218 yards to help the Packers storm back from a 16-point deficit for a 26-26 tie as the Minnesota Vikings and Green Bay could only muster field goals in overtime Sunday.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/game?gameId=331124009
Lastly, I really don't care if the Packers win or lose. Or the Brewers. I said the Cubs would win the division going away because I thought they would (and I ended up being pretty correct). If I felt the Brewers would win the division, I would have said so.
I bring up that I don't have a horse in the race because I think it's material to do so. I don't "love" or "hate" any of these teams.
What I do love is watching Aaron Rodgers play. He's one of the best QBs I've ever seen.
Saying he's better than Tom Brady ... there's little to no basis for it.
Oh, and I'm no Brady fan, either - except that I also love watching him play.
Interesting. I thought I remembered McGinn throwing out an article with a title that was something to the effect of “The Packers are Equipped to Win Without Rodgers” and within the next 2 weeks he broke his collarbone and we literally went winless without him. My memory was wrong on that one.
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He's one of the greatest, but if I were a Packers fan and I only get 1 SB out of the GOAT, that would make me pretty angry. All the other greats got 2 and sometimes many more.
Rodgers is still playing. He may very well win another or 3 more super bowls before he is done. How many did Brady win after the age of 33?
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Rodgers has won in spite of McCarthy most of the time. In spite of his defense. In spite of an o-line that always seems banged up and patched together in his prime. What happens when Packer wideouts go elsewhere? Nothing, average at best. Who's the best offensive skill player Rodgers has played with? Who can scramble like Rodgers and still be one of the most accurate QB's ever? He leads the world in getting teams offside and 12 men on the field penalties. He's clutch as eff. I know Brady's great, and I've watched football for 38 years, and the Dish eye test is Rodgers GOAT.
I'll be back with other blazing hot takes after I put my kids to bed.
I think you are under rating McCarthy, the receivers and the offense in general. Your point about banged up offensive line is valid, but poor defense is the biggest factor in why the Packers haven't won more with Rodgers. I remember many games where Rodgers and the offense played well only to have the defense piss it away at the end. Still 8 straight playoff appearances and a few nfc championship appearances doesn't suck.
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Brady is probably near the top (still behind Montana in my book). Cite the championships all you want, but Brady doesn't pull this drive out today with the pressure Rodgers was under. He doesn't pull an 18 yard run out of thin air with the game on the line. Brady's game is predicated on being kept upright and stationary, and the Pats have done an exceptional job of that over the course of his career.
Brady is "probably" near the top? Really a guy with 5 rings and 7 Super Bowl appearances is just
probably near the top in your eyes? You don't think Brady would pull out a regular season game in Dallas but he was able to pull out a win overcoming a 25-point 2nd half deficit of the Super Bowl? I'm not a big fan of Brady or the Patriots but let's be realistic here.
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Rodgers is still playing. He may very well win another or 3 more super bowls before he is done. How many did Brady win after the age of 33?
He might, but he's also wasted several opportunities. This Packers team has played two teams that currently have a winning record, and they lost badly to one of them. I'm not convinced this team even wins the NFC North yet. As good as Rodgers is, and he is great, there are many holes.
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Marino=0
Favre=1
It's a team game. The difference in the top 1% of all time QBs is negligible. What were the other factors? Coaching, teammates, injuries, luck, etc. Rodgers clearly in that top group.
Count me as one who have never put Marino or Favre in the top 10. They were gun slingers and too often put their own gun slinging ahead of the need to be smart and win. Rodgers is in that group, Dan and Brett aren't.
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Rodgers is the better pure passer, but Brady is the GOAT.
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He might, but he's also wasted several opportunities. This Packers team has played two teams that currently have a winning record, and they lost badly to one of them. I'm not convinced this team even wins the NFC North yet. As good as Rodgers is, and he is great, there are many holes.
A lot of those holes can be closed with guys coming back from injury. We just have to hope that more people don't get hurt.
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By the way, Davante Adams is going to get paaaaaaaid! For as bad as he was his first 2 years, he's been outstanding since.
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For the record, if we're picking on the two game sample size of Matt Flynn in 2013, he beat an incredibly mediocre Cowboy team, and a horse manure Falcon team that quit on Mike Smith and went 4-12. Just sayin.
First, I apologize for insinuating you're a Packers fan. Obviously, that's a huge insult to you!! Not sure why I thought that, and I won't make that unforgivable mistake again.
My recitation of the Flynn numbers merely were a reaction to the notion that every guy who has QB'd a game during the Rodgers era - other than Rodgers himself - lost.
FWIW, I really enjoy these kinds of discussions/debates. It reminds me of when I was in college and my friends and I would get into arguments about who were the greatest baseball players ever. One of our dive hangouts, the Midget on Wells and 24th (since burned down), had a Baseball Encyclopedia behind the bar that helped settle many of our arguments.
Google's a lot easier!
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FWIW, I really enjoy these kinds of discussions/debates. It reminds me of when I was in college and my friends and I would get into arguments about who were the greatest baseball players ever. One of our dive hangouts, the Midget on Wells and 24th (since burned down), had a Baseball Encyclopedia behind the bar that helped settle many of our arguments.
Google's a lot easier!
But Google does not have beer.
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He might, but he's also wasted several opportunities. This Packers team has played two teams that currently have a winning record, and they lost badly to one of them. I'm not convinced this team even wins the NFC North yet. As good as Rodgers is, and he is great, there are many holes.
They are tied for the best record in the NFC at 4-1 and with a boat load of key injuries. Its the NFL, they aren't playing southwest state college. Christ they played the top 3 teams in the nfc coming into the season and a Bengal team that is better than their record. This packer team is as good as any team when healthy and one of a handful of teams with a legitimate chance to win the super bowl. Not me saying it, look it up for yourself. I'm not convinced you know anything about football other than to be contradictory and argumentative like usual. And please don't bother responding my mother told me not to argue with idiots.
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3 of the 5 teams the Packers have played were in the Divisional Round (or better) of the Playoffs last season. Bit early to be talking about teams "over .500," especially when the Packers wins (and loss) over them are included in those records.
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For my money, Rodgers is the GOAT. I'd probably have Elway/Brady a smidge below tied, but all around, Rodgers does every little tangible and intangible you want from that position. Brady has had probably the greatest career of any QB, but gun to head I'd take Rodgers for one game if my life depends on it. It doesn't matter to me that I'm a Bears fan, I appreciate football greatness more than my fan loyalty.
That said, tonight we start laying the foundation for the Trubisky wing in Canton baby! (I kid, I kid).
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For my money, Rodgers is the GOAT. I'd probably have Elway/Brady a smidge below tied, but all around, Rodgers does every little tangible and intangible you want from that position. Brady has had probably the greatest career of any QB, but gun to head I'd take Rodgers for one game if my life depends on it. It doesn't matter to me that I'm a Bears fan, I appreciate football greatness more than my fan loyalty.
That said, tonight we start laying the foundation for the Trubisky wing in Canton baby! (I kid, I kid).
I HATE HATE HATE Rodgers. Hate him as a Bears fan. Think he's a tool. Hate his State Farm commercials and his new commercial with a dog. HOWEVER, he's the best Ive ever seen. Brady has incredible poise and accuracy, and his career achievements speak for themselves. But Ive always thought he benefitted tremendously from the "protect QBs above all else" trend of the last 5-10 years. Whereas I feel Rodgers is at his best in chaos. Rodgers can generate a backbreaking game winning drive with a pin point drop pass into a recievers lap, a 20 yard scramble out of NOWHERE, and an absolute laser thrown sidearm while rolling out of the pocket. Brady is going to reliably give you only one of those plays. And thats not a knock, he's probably the best pocket passer of all time, but I think Rodgers is a far more complete quarterback. He also doesn't wear Uggs.
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They have a lot of weapons. Funchess and Benjamin are beasts, McCaffrey adds a lot. And hopefully Olsen will be back for the stretch run.
Two awesome weeks in a row for Cam ... on the field. Which lays to waste the whole "distractions" thing. Very, VERY rarely are top athletes distracted during games by stuff that happened days or weeks earlier, no matter how many times the talking heads on TV say it.
December 17 will be fun!
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Based on some of the Rodgers vs Brady comments, you'd think the Patriots have always had kick-arse defenses and the stud receivers, while Rodgers has had to throw passes to slugs and never had any help from the other side of the ball.
Rodgers started playing in 2008. Let's throw out that year because he was a first-year starter and Brady was injured almost the entire season. That means the two have had 8 full seasons in the league as starters together, 2009-2016.
In 4 of those 8 years, the Packers' defense was rated higher than the Patriots' defense. In 2014, when the Patriots went on to win the Super Bowl, they had the better defense but it was only 2 spots higher (13th vs 15th). In 2011, when the Patriots went to the Super Bowl (and lost) and the Packers went 15-1 but promptly got crushed in the playoffs by the Giants, both teams did it all with offense, as GB was ranked last defensively and NE was next-to-last. In 2010, when the Packers won the SB, their defense was ranked 20 spots higher than NE's (5th vs 25th).
During the 8 years, the Patriots' average defensive ranking was 18th and the Packers' average defensive ranking was 16th. The Packers had bigger advantages earlier in Rodgers' career while the Patriots had the bigger advantages more recently.
So it seems a bit simplistic to imply: "Brady always had great defenses but Rodgers had crap."
Now, let's look at the receivers. Brady has had Gronk, as good as any TE ever when healthy, which is always a question mark with him. He had Moss for a couple of years, including one incredible season before Moss got old real fast. He had Branch, a good (but not great) receiver.
Nowadays, we can see that Edelman, Amandola and Hogan are very good receivers, but Edelman was a 7th-round draft pick and the other two weren't drafted. Brady made them (and yes, the system obviously is a factor, too). Wes Welker, who also wasn't drafted, had one fine season in Miami before becoming a perennial superstar with Brady throwing to him. Others who have had very good seasons with Brady throwing to them: Brandon LaFell, Kenbrell Thompkins, and an aging Brandon Lloyd (who had his second-best season with Brady).
Rodgers certainly helped make many of his WRs greater than they otherwise might have been. Anybody who would deny that hasn't paid attention. Still ... Cobb, Jordy, Jennings and Adams were all 2nd-rounders. Finley and Jones were 3rd-rounders.
Is it more surprising that Nelson, Jennings, Jones, Cobb and Finley are all top-20 receivers in Packers history ... or that Edelman, Amandola and Welker became stars for the Patriots?
Love me some Rodgers. So much fun to watch, and such a great QB. Still finding it hard to find much evidence to support the thesis that he's had a better career than Brady has.
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He might, but he's also wasted several opportunities. This Packers team has played two teams that currently have a winning record, and they lost badly to one of them. I'm not convinced this team even wins the NFC North yet. As good as Rodgers is, and he is great, there are many holes.
ok 4/5- you must still be hurting after yesterday's game ;) but lost badly to one of them? yes they were getting their chit handed to them early and part of the comeback could've been due to atlanta chalking it up a little early-cheezus, i thought they learned their lesson last january-eyn'a. but anywhooo, i don't wanna sound like a blame da refs kinda guy, but that penalty(pick??) on matellis right before halftime was a killer. if they could have reviewed that one, it would have been reversed-no doubt. end of series-punt from deep in their territory-atlanta scores, then gets the ball back after halftime...absolute killer.
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Call a spade a spade
Well if you insist: You're a right wing moron.
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ok 4/5- you must still be hurting after yesterday's game ;) but lost badly to one of them? yes they were getting their chit handed to them early and part of the comeback could've been due to atlanta chalking it up a little early-cheezus, i thought they learned their lesson last january-eyn'a. but anywhooo, i don't wanna sound like a blame da refs kinda guy, but that penalty(pick??) on matellis right before halftime was a killer. if they could have reviewed that one, it would have been reversed-no doubt. end of series-punt from deep in their territory-atlanta scores, then gets the ball back after halftime...absolute killer.
No shame in losing to the defending NFC champion in their opening home game in a new stadium, missing both starting tackles and backup tackle and leading receiver and best defensive player. For anyone to use that as narrative as to why the Packers may not be good is just plain ignorant. I'm guessing there isn't a team in the nfl that wins under that same scenario.
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Respecting the thread I wont start a new topic .....but this weekend was devastating for all Houston Texan fans over the season ending injury to JJ Watt. This guy did not deserve this.
A fine man from WI, Houston has fully embraced him as one our sports heroes. His hurricane relief work merits NFL man of the Year honors. We really love this guy.
Even if his career ends now I would still vote him to HOF. Kind of like a Sandy Koufax legacy in NFL terms
My sincerest best wishes to a great player and very good man
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Based on some of the Rodgers vs Brady comments, you'd think the Patriots have always had kick-arse defenses and the stud receivers, while Rodgers has had to throw passes to slugs and never had any help from the other side of the ball.
Rodgers started playing in 2008. Let's throw out that year because he was a first-year starter and Brady was injured almost the entire season. That means the two have had 8 full seasons in the league as starters together, 2009-2016.
In 4 of those 8 years, the Packers' defense was rated higher than the Patriots' defense. In 2014, when the Patriots went on to win the Super Bowl, they had the better defense but it was only 2 spots higher (13th vs 15th). In 2011, when the Patriots went to the Super Bowl (and lost) and the Packers went 15-1 but promptly got crushed in the playoffs by the Giants, both teams did it all with offense, as GB was ranked last defensively and NE was next-to-last. In 2010, when the Packers won the SB, their defense was ranked 20 spots higher than NE's (5th vs 25th).
During the 8 years, the Patriots' average defensive ranking was 18th and the Packers' average defensive ranking was 16th. The Packers had bigger advantages earlier in Rodgers' career while the Patriots had the bigger advantages more recently.
So it seems a bit simplistic to imply: "Brady always had great defenses but Rodgers had crap."
Now, let's look at the receivers. Brady has had Gronk, as good as any TE ever when healthy, which is always a question mark with him. He had Moss for a couple of years, including one incredible season before Moss got old real fast. He had Branch, a good (but not great) receiver.
Nowadays, we can see that Edelman, Amandola and Hogan are very good receivers, but Edelman was a 7th-round draft pick and the other two weren't drafted. Brady made them (and yes, the system obviously is a factor, too). Wes Welker, who also wasn't drafted, had one fine season in Miami before becoming a perennial superstar with Brady throwing to him. Others who have had very good seasons with Brady throwing to them: Brandon LaFell, Kenbrell Thompkins, and an aging Brandon Lloyd (who had his second-best season with Brady).
Rodgers certainly helped make many of his WRs greater than they otherwise might have been. Anybody who would deny that hasn't paid attention. Still ... Cobb, Jordy, Jennings and Adams were all 2nd-rounders. Finley and Jones were 3rd-rounders.
Is it more surprising that Nelson, Jennings, Jones, Cobb and Finley are all top-20 receivers in Packers history ... or that Edelman, Amandola and Welker became stars for the Patriots?
Love me some Rodgers. So much fun to watch, and such a great QB. Still finding it hard to find much evidence to support the thesis that he's had a better career than Brady has.
A little misleading. Brady has played 7 seasons on teams whose defense ranked in the roughly top 40% of the league. Including 4 of his 5 Super Bowl wins. Rodgers has played on 3 such teams, 2009, 2010 (Super Bowl win) and 2012.
More importantly NE typically averages in the top 5 or top 10 offensive lines in the league. Since 2009, Brady averages getting sacked on 4.83% of attempts. Rodgers 7.5%. Brady plays behind top 10 offensive lines, Rodgers plays behind bottom 10 offensive lines.
Brady benefits from substantially better defenses and offensive lines. Those win championships.
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A little misleading. Brady has played 7 seasons on teams whose defense ranked in the roughly top 40% of the league. Including 4 of his 5 Super Bowl wins. Rodgers has played on 3 such teams, 2009, 2010 (Super Bowl win) and 2012.
More importantly NE typically averages in the top 5 or top 10 offensive lines in the league. Since 2009, Brady averages getting sacked on 4.83% of attempts. Rodgers 7.5%. Brady plays behind top 10 offensive lines, Rodgers plays behind bottom 10 offensive lines.
Brady benefits from substantially better defenses and offensive lines. Those win championships.
In all fairness, it helps to weed out the sacks that are the QBs fault. Rodgers makes plays by holding the ball. Defense has perpetually been the downfall of this team. Hard to say that for Brady.
I think rankings are dumb in football, although they are so much fun. Just too many variables in play.
I wish Rodgers had the Pats defenses all these years. I wish he had 5 rings so we were as insufferable as the Pats fans. We don't. I'll hope for one more out of Aaron before Karma catches up with GB. None of that stops me from thinking that Rodgers is the most fun to watch him execute.
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30th quarterback in 25 years.
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Of course this Bears team comes out fired up and inspired. Probably win on MNF. This team is going to somehow finish 6-10 and keep Fox's job and get a middle draft pick.
Vikings offense looks HORRIFIC.
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What was the under on this match?
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3, hey?
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Respecting the thread I wont start a new topic .....but this weekend was devastating for all Houston Texan fans over the season ending injury to JJ Watt. This guy did not deserve this.
A fine man from WI, Houston has fully embraced him as one our sports heroes. His hurricane relief work merits NFL man of the Year honors. We really love this guy.
Even if his career ends now I would still vote him to HOF. Kind of like a Sandy Koufax legacy in NFL terms
My sincerest best wishes to a great player and very good man
I was sad to hear about his injury. Great player, great guy. Hope he is able to make it back strong.
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He might, but he's also wasted several opportunities. This Packers team has played two teams that currently have a winning record, and they lost badly to one of them. I'm not convinced this team even wins the NFC North yet. As good as Rodgers is, and he is great, there are many holes.
I'm feeling pretty good about the Packers chances in this division.
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I HATE soccer. I thought there was a football game tonite.
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Bradford may be the least mobile QB in the league right now. He can't be healthy, they should get him out of there.
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Ouch.
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Man, this is making my eyes bleed....I'm only watching so I can see The Last Jedi trailer
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Man, this is making my eyes bleed....I'm only watching so I can see The Last Jedi trailer
"uuhhhggg! I'll just watch it in the morning on Youtube, i'm going to bed" - 11yr old naginiF
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Man, this is making my eyes bleed....I'm only watching so I can see The Last Jedi trailer
I KNEW you were going to say something like that. Dork alert cubed.
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Painful game to watch, but let's get this W Vikings!!! Skol!!!!
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Fox pulling out all the stops. Trubisky looks meh, but at least his throws don't wobble down the field.
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Man, this is making my eyes bleed....I'm only watching so I can see The Last Jedi trailer
SPOILER ALERT:
The movie ends with Luke Skywalker becoming the Bears new starting QB.
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SPOILER ALERT:
The movie ends with Luke Skywalker becoming the Bears new starting QB.
*Pat O'Donnell
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SPOILER ALERT:
The movie ends with Luke Skywalker becoming the Bears new starting QB.
Thus ending Luke's previously-illustrious career.
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SPOILER ALERT:
The movie ends with Luke Skywalker becoming the Bears new starting QB.
Quarterback #31! That was funny.
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Trubisky looked like Cutler on that play. :o
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Trubisky looked like Cutler on that play. :o
The Bears' receivers are brutal. Trubisky started scrambling and most of them just stood there. Get open!
And Mitch, throw it away, son!
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The Bears best option likely would have been to let them score, save your timeout and at least give the offense a chance.
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The experience will be very beneficial for him going into next season.
If recovered, I look into Allen Robinson next year.
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The Bears best option likely would have been to let them score, save your timeout and at least give the offense a chance.
With the Vikings' kicking game? Nah. I'd take my chances on a miss in that situation rather than count on a last-minute touchdown drive from a first-time starter who just threw a terrible INT.
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Trubisky's stat-line was rough, but there were a couple of throws that were quite impressive and that I haven't seen out of a Bears QB in my lifetime. Of course, some of those had penalties and won't count, but the promise is still there. Bears are infinitely better seeing what this kid can do now.
As a Packer fan, I hope they decide to reinforce the defense instead of giving him an actual WR next offseason.
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SPOILER ALERT:
The movie ends with Luke Skywalker becoming the Bears new starting QB.
(http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/nooooooo_luke_skywalker.gif)
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I don't mean to pick on Trubisky. While it's way too early to tell if he'll be good, the Bears have so little talent now that to ask too much is unrealistic.
And frankly the Vikings don't look much better.
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I don't mean to pick on Trubisky. While it's way too early to tell if he'll be good, the Bears have so little talent now that to ask too much is unrealistic.
And frankly the Vikings don't look much better.
I'm suddenly way less nervous about playing the Vikings on Sunday, that's for sure
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I'm suddenly way less nervous about playing the Vikings on Sunday, that's for sure
I really love Gruden pretending that Bradford's health last night was the only thing standing in the way of being a top flight quarterback
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I really love Gruden pretending that Bradford's health last night was the only thing standing in the way of being a top flight quarterback
In fairness, he played pretty well last year. But right now Bradford's a shell of even himself. And if Stafford is now hurt.......
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I don't mean to pick on Trubisky. While it's way too early to tell if he'll be good, the Bears have so little talent now that to ask too much is unrealistic.
And frankly the Vikings don't look much better.
Trubisky looked like a rookie QB in his first start. Some good, some bad. Unfortunately, the bad plays ended up being bigger than the good ones.
I agree with glow that it's tough to read too much into his performance since the WRs are so bad. I'm not sure they have anyone who's better than a #4 on a decent team. They can't get open and even if they do get open, they can't catch the ball consistently. What can be said for certain is that Trubisky is a better option than Mike Glennon.
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Trubisky looked like a rookie QB in his first start. Some good, some bad. Unfortunately, the bad plays ended up being bigger than the good ones.
I agree with glow that it's tough to read too much into his performance since the WRs are so bad. I'm not sure they have anyone who's better than a #4 on a decent team. They can't get open and even if they do get open, they can't catch the ball consistently. What can be said for certain is that Trubisky is a better option than Mike Glennon.
Absolutely.
If I'm a Bears fan, I feel good that this kid is gonna get an in-your-face education this season. It will be ugly at times - as it was for Manning, Elway, Bradshaw and so on and so on and so on when they were rookies. But I'd rather lose with Trubisky learning how to play QB than a POS placeholder like Glennon taking the snaps.
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wades:
Glad you never agreed to my proposed Pats-Panthers bet - although you should have because it would have been almost impossible for you to lose money! After giving it more thought, it's obvious that the Patriots can't help but win their awful division, so I'd have had no chance to win the bet only to make it a push.
So consider the bet off the table ... but I still believe that the Panthers are a good team (very, very good if Cam keeps playing well) and that the Patriots' have a gawdawful defense. Even at Tampa, receivers were running wide open all game. Had Winston been on, or had one of the better QBs been running their offense, the Bucs would've scored 35-40 against the Pats.
Belichick is the best, but maybe even he can't solve his team's problems this year.
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Hey 82,
Hope you are okay.
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.tmz.com/2017/10/13/panthers-fan-punches-eagles-fan
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Hey 82,
Hope you are okay.
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.tmz.com/2017/10/13/panthers-fan-punches-eagles-fan
The creep had a really classy girlfriend, too. And what a bunch of p*ssy Carolina fans just letting this guy walk away.
He has been identified and there is no doubt this was a violent assault that will include jail time.
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I couldn't help myself. His face was so punchable!
Honestly, this really is the first I heard of the incident. Sounds like a real classy guy and, of course, he represents all Panthers fans. We're ALL like that. I know that if you say Hi to me and I don't like the tone of your voice, you're gettin' one right in the chops!!
It was a tough night for me and Mrs. 82, but it coulda been worse. The Eagles historically travel well and I'd guess at least a quarter of the crowd were Eagles fans. The guy next to me was a loud, rude, obnoxious a-hole in a Vick jersey who wouldn't stop yelling idiotic crap. Used the F-word loudly several times before me and another guy asked him politely to stop cursing with all the women and children around us, and he did apologize. But he didn't shut up, and still cussed a few times.
I'm thinking, "This is gonna be fun, especially if we lose," and my wife and I started scoping out possible seats to move to.
But then, about 10 minutes into the game, a couple of fans showed up who actually held the seat this jamoke and his buddy were occupying. So they had to leave and find somewhere else to be a-holes.
Who says there is no God?!?!?!? (Oh wait ... that's me.)
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Ratings down 5th straight week year over year. Still down 11% in 18-34 DEMO from last year, and down 8% in 18-49 DEMO from '16. Wall Street now issuing earnings warnings against Fox and CBS as a result.
But to suggest that anyone is boycotting and not watching because of this is a myth. ::) Someone actually said that here. Wow.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/12/nfls-anthem-protests-may-be-starting-to-hit-foxs-bottom-line.html
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Ratings down 5th straight week year over year. Still down 11% in 18-34 DEMO from last year, and down 8% in 18-49 DEMO from '16. Wall Street now issuing earnings warnings against Fox and CBS as a result.
But to suggest that anyone is boycotting and not watching because of this is a myth. ::) Someone actually said that here. Wow.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/12/nfls-anthem-protests-may-be-starting-to-hit-foxs-bottom-line.html
Can we please talk football? Things like:
(https://nesncom.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/aaron-rodgers3.jpg)
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I think the 8 locked threads on the front page of the superbar has to be a record. One day Rocky and Hilltopper are going to snap and just carpet bomb this place with banhammers. It will be terrible and beautiful display of modly godly power.
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I think the 8 locked threads on the front page of the superbar has to be a record. One day Rocky and Hilltopper are going to snap and just carpet bomb this place with banhammers. It will be terrible and beautiful display of modly godly power.
that's what we pay'em for-heyn'a?
on another note, the monday night game this week is going to be a real blockbuster-might as well do the knee, fist, downward looking dog...or whatever cuz no ones gonna see it anyway ;)
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Ratings down 5th straight week year over year. Still down 11% in 18-34 DEMO from last year, and down 8% in 18-49 DEMO from '16. Wall Street now issuing earnings warnings against Fox and CBS as a result.
But to suggest that anyone is boycotting and not watching because of this is a myth. ::) Someone actually said that here. Wow.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/12/nfls-anthem-protests-may-be-starting-to-hit-foxs-bottom-line.html
Phony issue. Phony outrage.
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I think the 8 locked threads on the front page of the superbar has to be a record. One day Rocky and Hilltopper are going to snap and just carpet bomb this place with banhammers. It will be terrible and beautiful display of modly godly power.
Some fire and fury, huh?
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Uh oh
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Uh oh
So, what else is there to do on Sundays during the fall and winter?
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Phony issue. Phony outrage.
Tell that to the bottom lines of these companies, the ratings, the sponsorship deals. Ignore if you wish, the fans have spoken and the NFL is in retreat as a result. If it was phony outrage, the ratings wouldn't be effected. Some of you keep saying its phony, no one is really stopping their viewing. Then there is data, and reality. The denial is humorous. Why do you ignore science?
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Uh oh
I hear Tarik Cohen may be available.
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That really sucks about Rodgers.
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Mike Glennon is available.
So is Colin kapernick
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absolutely no disrespect for rodgers, but a big reason brett favre was so successful is because he avoided serious injuries. he played 297 straight games hurt and healthy and some of them with the aid of your local walgreens. kinda hard to play QB with a broken collarbone on throwing shoulder-bummer to what could have been our chance at another lombardi
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Sorry Pack fans y'all are screwed!
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Mike Glennon is available.
So is Colin kapernick
i like our chances better with hundley
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It's Kaepernick time in Green Bay
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It's Kaepernick time in Green Bay
Psych.
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It's Kaepernick time in Green Bay
I'd sign him and at least have him as a backup.
But can you imagine if they brought him in and he led the Pack to a Super Bowl. Oh how the media would eat that up.
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It's Kaepernick time in Green Bay
do you know the people in green bay? you saw the thursday night game against bears right? the one where aaron asked everyone to link arms? i think they counted like 5 people...and they were bear fans ;)
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Bring Romo out of retirement!
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It's Kaepernick time in Green Bay
If for no other reason than to be backup to Hundley. I haven't seen much of Hubdley, but he seems to be a similar style to Kaepernick.
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do you know the people in green bay? you saw the thursday night game against bears right? the one where aaron asked everyone to link arms? i think they counted like 5 people...and they were bear fans ;)
I do know. They care about the packers winning more than anything else. If he won games, he would be begrudgeonly accepted. If he lost, there would be mobs.
This sucks. Packers were likely favorites going into every game for the rest of the regular season. Now I can't see us making the playoffs unless we pull a qb out of our ass
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Even outside of Rodgers, there's no way Packers could have sustained success with all the injuries. Their o-line and secondary is going to be street free agents soon.
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I do know. They care about the packers winning more than anything else. If he won games, he would be begrudgeonly accepted. If he lost, there would be mobs.
This sucks. Packers were likely favorites going into every game for the rest of the regular season. Now I can't see us making the playoffs unless we pull a qb out of our ass
This. But our offensive line is irreparably injured. Doesn't really matter who they sign.
Odds are that Callahan is the guy.
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Even outside of Rodgers, there's no way Packers could have sustained success with all the injuries. Their o-line and secondary is going to be street free agents soon.
excellent addendum-this whole team is devastated. what did they have today? 3 or 4 more go down?
actually hundley didn't look bad in preseason. yes, i realize he was playing against guys who aren't even in the league anymore and probably working at walmart, but note i said HE looked ok. he knows the playbook, is athletic and grading him on a road game in one of the tougher places to play and against one of the better defenses in the league.
i think hundley's biggest problems may be staying healthy and adapting to the revolving door of players he's working with
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I think the fact that it's right vs. left a few years ago ends it for this season. I suspect they IR him and if they have some chance at the end they'll reactivate. But those are very long odds as the last time it wasn't dislocated or his throwing shoulder.
Shame for both the Packers and the league.
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falcons lose AGAIN and at HOME?? jay cutler magic 'ey?
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Hundley is fookin’ awful, ai na?
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Hundley is fookin’ awful, ai na?
Yep. If we don't sign someone, it means we decided to tank
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The most critical part of the Lions, Vikings, and Bears game plans for winning the NFC North occurred today
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Yep. If we don't sign someone, it means we decided to tank
don't forget, as gb warrior mentioned, we do have callahan(i forgot about him) he may be better, at least i hope so, but who would you expect them to sign, EXCEPT him. even aikman said the reason he ain't back in the league is because he ain't good enough
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Kaepernick should be signed by the Packers. His mobility will help with the problems in the O-line. Hundley was pretty poor.
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I'd sign him and at least have him as a backup.
But can you imagine if they brought him in and he led the Pack to a Super Bowl. Oh how the media would eat that up.
Can you imagine if they brought him in and he did nothing, the media would be silent.
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That really sucks about Rodgers.
Reminds me of Tony Romo going down a few times. Rushing back from that injury isn't a good idea, either.
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It's Kaepernick time in Green Bay
Socks included?
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I see the usual creeps are out to shut down another thread.
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Can you imagine if they brought him in and he did nothing, the media would be silent.
You mean if he just stood there and literally did nothing? I bet that would make the news.
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I see the usual creeps are out to shut down another thread.
Yup.
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You mean if he just stood there and literally did nothing? I bet that would make the news.
If he just stood there and did nothing, that would make the news because he hasn't been able to even do that. Every time Hundley throws an incomplete, the camera would be on Kap. When are they going to put him in. GB wants that? Good luck.
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don't forget, as gb warrior mentioned, we do have callahan(i forgot about him) he may be better, at least i hope so, but who would you expect them to sign, EXCEPT him. even aikman said the reason he ain't back in the league is because he ain't good enough
That's not exactly what he said, he said that by the time he learned the offense and got up to game speed he likely wouldn't be any better than what they have.
Kaep's played 12 games last year. In 12 games he threw for 16 TDs with only 4 INTs, with a 90 QBR. He ran for almost 500 yards and had 2 rushing TDs. That would put him in the top 10-15 QBs this year.
I'd sign him. At the worst he is a very good backup in case our OL can't keep Hundley up. At best, he is in game shape and is an improvement.
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don't forget, as gb warrior mentioned, we do have callahan(i forgot about him) he may be better, at least i hope so, but who would you expect them to sign, EXCEPT him. even aikman said the reason he ain't back in the league is because he ain't good enough
He's plenty good enough. See the game Hogan had today? Or Glennon in his first four starts?
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That's not exactly what he said, he said that by the time he learned the offense and got up to game speed he likely wouldn't be any better than what they have.
Kaep's played 12 games last year. In 12 games he threw for 16 TDs with only 4 INTs, with a 90 QBR. He ran for almost 500 yards and had 2 rushing TDs. That would put him in the top 10-15 QBs this year.
I'd sign him. At the worst he is a very good backup in case our OL can't keep Hundley up. At best, he is in game shape and is an improvement.
Yeah I think the idea that he isn't at least an average quarterback is laughable. I mean the Titans just signed Brandon Weeden. I think it is quite obvious what is going on.
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That's not exactly what he said, he said that by the time he learned the offense and got up to game speed he likely wouldn't be any better than what they have.
Kaep's played 12 games last year. In 12 games he threw for 16 TDs with only 4 INTs, with a 90 QBR. He ran for almost 500 yards and had 2 rushing TDs. That would put him in the top 10-15 QBs this year.
I'd sign him. At the worst he is a very good backup in case our OL can't keep Hundley up. At best, he is in game shape and is an improvement.
I so hope they do, just to shut 27% of this country up.
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http://www.ajc.com/sports/football/green-bay-packers-potential-free-agent-targets-with-aaron-rodgers-out/7hpskEjpdUXr1VVVJcAhWK/
When the 2nd and 3rd best options are Matt McGloin and Matt Barkley, I think you have to at least kick the tires on Kaep.
Any quality backups out there the Pack could put together a trade for? Or do you just roll with Hundley and accept that you are only going to win 2 or 3 games the rest of the season and get a decent draft pick?
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I think you see how it goes this next Sunday. Give him a chance at home and with a week's preparation. If he struggles, and with a bye week coming up, they should look at alternatives.
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This isn't a touchdown? This league is killing itself daily with stupidity on and off the field.
http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/252749/nfl-owes-a-big-explanation-for-austin-sefarian-jenkins-fumble
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The Packers would be fools to not sign CK. The pool of available quality quarterbacks is not deep.
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This isn't a touchdown? This league is killing itself daily with stupidity on and off the field.
http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/252749/nfl-owes-a-big-explanation-for-austin-sefarian-jenkins-fumble
NFL Rules committee:
(https://i.imgur.com/gRk1uZm.gif?noredirect)
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The Packers would be fools to not sign CK. The pool of available quality quarterbacks is not deep.
Please do, please do, please do so the national nightmare can be over
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This isn't a touchdown? This league is killing itself daily with stupidity on and off the field.
http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/252749/nfl-owes-a-big-explanation-for-austin-sefarian-jenkins-fumble
I've never understood why the defense should get the ball on the 20 on a fumble out of the end zone. If that fumble occurs on the 1 yard line, the offense would retain it. The offense is massively penalized for actually advancing the ball further.
Yeah I do understand this was a bad call.
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I've never understood why the defense should get the ball on the 20 on a fumble out of the end zone. If that fumble occurs on the 1 yard line, the offense would retain it. The offense is massively penalized for actually advancing the ball further.
Yeah I do understand this was a bad call.
I dislike the rule also, but the runner here clearly fumbled before reaching the goal line.
Now, I don't think there was clear evidence that he didn't regain control before being out of bounds. So I think it should have stayed a touchdown, since that was the call on the field, but I wasn't able to see every angle of the play.
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The Packers would be fools to not sign CK. The pool of available quality quarterbacks is not deep.
That or #RomoComeHome-O
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The CONSENSUS is in first place. Skol Vikings!!
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Please do, please do, please do so the national nightmare can be over
National nightmare? Lol. Never change, chicoloop.
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The CONSENSUS is in first place. Skol Vikings!!
If the Queens sneak into the Playoffs can their kicker make a 27 yard field goal?
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Packers are damned if you do, damned if they don't. Even if Kaep is average, with the injuries this team isn't. She what you have with Hundley and if it's not good, tank
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http://www.ajc.com/sports/football/green-bay-packers-potential-free-agent-targets-with-aaron-rodgers-out/7hpskEjpdUXr1VVVJcAhWK/
When the 2nd and 3rd best options are Matt McGloin and Matt Barkley, I think you have to at least kick the tires on Kaep.
Any quality backups out there the Pack could put together a trade for? Or do you just roll with Hundley and accept that you are only going to win 2 or 3 games the rest of the season and get a decent draft pick?
I would be shocked if McCarthy didn't stay with Hundley all the way.
There are two possible outcomes.
1. Hundley isn't very good - the result is a top 10 draft pick. A win because this team will never see a pick that high otherwise.
2. Hundley is as good as McCarthy hopes he is. A win becauise the team gets in as a wild card and gets a high draft choice for Hundley.
I know. Bur I'm stuck with this batch of lemons........
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I would be shocked if McCarthy didn't stay with Hundley all the way.
There are two possible outcomes.
1. Hundley isn't very good - the result is a top 10 draft pick. A win because this team will never see a pick that high otherwise.
2. Hundley is as good as McCarthy hopes he is. A win becauise the team gets in as a wild card and gets a high draft choice for Hundley.
I know. Bur I'm stuck with this batch of lemons........
Hundley has a year left on his deal, even if he's good, they're not getting a high pick for him.
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Please do, please do, please do so the national nightmare can be over
You should go outside. Take a deep breath.
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You should go outside. Take a deep breath.
Meds. Air won't help.
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I think the Packers should give Kaepernick a serious look...and sign him if McCarthy thinks he would beat out Hundley to start. Most of the NFL guys who say that his unemployment is justified are basing that on the huge attention he'd get...not a bad thing for a starting QB, but bad for chemistry if he is a backup. And up until now, it has been pretty clear that he'd be a backup on most teams.
Would he be a backup for GB too? Hard to say. I suspect his mobility would help compensate for the weak offensive line, but the key would be less tangible to most of us - mostly McCarthy's gut feeling about how the players would react to having him in GB, how quickly he could learn the offense, etc.
Bottom line - sign him if you think he would start, pass him by if you think he'd just be a high-profile bench warmer.
Or maybe Favre will pull a Jordan.... ?-(
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Dickerson is right. Without #12, GB is sub 500. However, They will not sign Kneeornick. Won’t fly in Green Bay and the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
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Rodgers is why the Packers are good. Kaepernick isn’t 1/100th the football player Rodgers is. Signing him does nothing for the Packers.
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Rodgers is why the Packers are good. Kaepernick isn’t 1/100th the football player Rodgers is. Signing him does nothing for the Packers.
Pretty much. GB isn't going anywhere without Rodgers.
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I think the Packers should give Kaepernick a serious look...and sign him if McCarthy thinks he would beat out Hundley to start. Most of the NFL guys who say that his unemployment is justified are basing that on the huge attention he'd get...not a bad thing for a starting QB, but bad for chemistry if he is a backup. And up until now, it has been pretty clear that he'd be a backup on most teams.
Would he be a backup for GB too? Hard to say. I suspect his mobility would help compensate for the weak offensive line, but the key would be less tangible to most of us - mostly McCarthy's gut feeling about how the players would react to having him in GB, how quickly he could learn the offense, etc.
Bottom line - sign him if you think he would start, pass him by if you think he'd just be a high-profile bench warmer.
Or maybe Favre will pull a Jordan.... ?-(
I don't want Kaep anywhere near the Packers, I don't care if he is better than Hundley. With the injuries on this team they are a sub .500 team and Id rather they get a high draft pick then tread water(assuming Rodgers is done). Kaep specifically (note not the players or the protest, Kaep himself) offends me and I don't want him near a team I cheer for. There is zero upside to signing him.
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Pretty much. GB isn't going anywhere without Rodgers.
Maybe, but McCarthy has a better picture of our chances than any of us here. If he thinks the Packers could sneak into a wild card game with Kaepernick starting, IMHO it would be worth it. Most thought the Vikings would never make it without Bridgewater and Peterson last season and thought they wasted their money on Bradford, but they squeezed in.
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If the Pack can get healthy in the secondary and o-line, I won't count them out, if for no other reason than the NFC is very mediocre. They probably have to find 5 more wins to be in the hunt, and have the Bears and Browns still to come.
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Maybe, but McCarthy has a better picture of our chances than any of us here. If he thinks the Packers could sneak into a wild card game with Kaepernick starting, IMHO it would be worth it. Most thought the Vikings would never make it without Bridgewater and Peterson last season and thought they wasted their money on Bradford, but they squeezed in.
This only makes sense if Rodgers is going to be able to return for the playoffs. Getting a wild card and losing in the first round has zero appeal to me. I'd rather be bad, get high draft picks, get a long term replacement for Rodgers or Saquon Barkley in the first round and build more depth on this team in the 2-5 rounds.
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There are so many bad teams in the NFL, that even if the Packers attempt to tank, I don;t think they will lose as many games as people expect. At least, not nearly enough losses to get a top 10 draft pick.
Sign Kaep, probably make the playoffs in the NFC, and hope that Rodgers returns.
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9-7 could very well win the NFC North. Could Kaepernick get the Packers to 9-7? If yes, sign him. If no, roll with the young guy and tank.
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I don’t think you sign Kaepernick because I think best case scenario is the rest of your team gets healthy and you sneak into the Playoffs and lose right away. We’ve seen that enough from the Packers, and we also have NOT seen anything to suggest the rest of the Packers can stay healthy.
I know BeeJay and his Vikings fan friends get all excited about the possibility of actually winning a division title, but at this point that’s no longer enough for the Packers. We’ve done that enough.
In my opinion the Packers should roll with what they have and try to win as many games as they can. See what you have in Hundley and see if you can squeak into the Playoffs behind a guy you will have around beyond this season backing up Rodgers. And if you fall short then you get a better draft pick.
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I don't want Kaep anywhere near the Packers, I don't care if he is better than Hundley. With the injuries on this team they are a sub .500 team and Id rather they get a high draft pick then tread water(assuming Rodgers is done). Kaep specifically (note not the players or the protest, Kaep himself) offends me and I don't want him near a team I cheer for. There is zero upside to signing him.
+++ a hundred-bravobravo!! sad to say(not a knock on you), but your comment brings credibility to what many here have said and/or think and gotten beat up for-thankyouthankyouthankyou...............
not to mention, kaepernick has a grievance lawsuit going against the nfl owners-all the more reason to stay away
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Most thought the Vikings would never make it without Bridgewater and Peterson last season and thought they wasted their money on Bradford, but they squeezed in.
Oh really? #fakenews
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Oh really? #fakenews
Lol.
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The Packers would be fools to not sign CK. The pool of available quality quarterbacks is not deep.
I'm sure when they don't many will agree with you that they're fools. I'm not so sure.
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+++ a hundred-bravobravo!! sad to say(not a knock on you), but your comment brings credibility to what many here have said and/or think and gotten beat up for-thankyouthankyouthankyou...............
not to mention, kaepernick has a grievance lawsuit going against the nfl owners-all the more reason to stay away
Yup. Why would any owner want this guy on the sidelines knowing that whomever is in the game will be questioned for every incomplete pass. Not worth it. He decided to do his thing last year, he opted out of his contract with the 49ers, who were likely to jettison him anyway because of this distractions. Do it on his own team. No need to pollute Packer nation with this, but there is part of me that wishes they would just to shut some people up.
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Pollute Packer nation? Lolz
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#TonyRomo
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Tut, tut, Packer fans. Minnesotan here. Lemme tell let you in on how your season will go: (SPOILER ALERT)
The Vikings will mostly screw up their remaining games. GB will win just enough to be in the hunt, then December rolls around and surprise, Rodgers' shoulder will be healed, he'll win the final few games and GB will be in the playoffs.
And and and .. GB will play @ Vikings in the playoffs, and Rodgers will beat them handily.
I've seen this movie before.
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Pollute Packer nation? Lolz
I can't tell if this is teal or not.......
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Hundley has a year left on his deal, even if he's good, they're not getting a high pick for him.
I meant to say that those were 2 possible outcomes - not that they were the only two. After re-reading my post it came out as they were the only two.
I disagree on Hundley's possible value though if he plays well. He could bring a 2nd rounder if he leads the Pack to a wild card.
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I can't tell if this is teal or not.......
Kinda the point.
But people are making it out to be like Kaep is a career criminal. If Donte Stallworth and Michael Vick could survive, so can Kaep.
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Tut, tut, Packer fans. Minnesotan here. Lemme tell let you in on how your season will go: (SPOILER ALERT)
The Vikings will mostly screw up their remaining games. GB will win just enough to be in the hunt, then December rolls around and surprise, Rodgers' shoulder will be healed, he'll win the final few games and GB will be in the playoffs.
And and and .. GB will play @ Vikings in the playoffs, and Rodgers will beat them handily.
I've seen this movie before.
If it was his left shoulder I'd agree with you. It being his throwing shoulder, the likelihood that he is able to return this season in playing shape is low.
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UCLA conspiracy
Anthony Barr (UCLA) hurts Rodgers to give his college teammate, Brett Hundley (UCLA), the starting gig.
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I don't like Kaepernick as a person either. Personally think he is a jackhole but not for the reasons most others do. But unless you can swing a trade for a quality backup (don't see it happening) or convince Romo to unretire and convince Big Jerry to let him go than you either sign Kaep or accept that you aren't going to the playoffs. I'm actually okay with that, but if we're going to tank then let's tank.
I think Kaep could get us to the playoffs (especially with how weak the NFC North is) but I don't disagree with the argument that making the playoffs doesn't mean anything to a franchise like Green Bay.
My official prediction is that they will see how Hundley does against the Saints. They will then decide whether or not to make a move on the bye week.
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Yup. Why would any owner want this guy on the sidelines knowing that whomever is in the game will be questioned for every incomplete pass.
Wouldn't be a problem in Green Bay. Kaepernick is much better than Hundley. Not even close.
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I don't like Kaepernick as a person either. Personally think he is a jackhole but not for the reasons most others do. But unless you can swing a trade for a quality backup (don't see it happening) or convince Romo to unretire and convince Big Jerry to let him go than you either sign Kaep or accept that you aren't going to the playoffs. I'm actually okay with that, but if we're going to tank then let's tank.
I think Kaep could get us to the playoffs (especially with how weak the NFC North is) but I don't disagree with the argument that making the playoffs doesn't mean anything to a franchise like Green Bay.
My official prediction is that they will see how Hundley does against the Saints. They will then decide whether or not to make a move on the bye week.
Romo was released by the Cowboys. He can unretire and sign with whomever he wishes.
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Romo was released by the Cowboys. He can unretire and sign with whomever he wishes.
My mistake, someone told me that the Cowboys still had his rights.
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My mistake, someone told me that the Cowboys still had his rights.
I think they could have retained rights, but made a choice to not do so. But I'm ignorant re: NFL rules
Just going off a couple weirdos, but think he can sign freely
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https://mobile.twitter.com/BMSLB54/status/919647626924044288?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
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Tut, tut, Packer fans. Minnesotan here. Lemme tell let you in on how your season will go: (SPOILER ALERT)
The Vikings will mostly screw up their remaining games. GB will win just enough to be in the hunt, then December rolls around and surprise, Rodgers' shoulder will be healed, he'll win the final few games and GB will be in the playoffs.
And and and .. GB will play @ Vikings in the playoffs, and Rodgers will beat them handily.
I've seen this movie before.
Agree with the Vikings blowing their opportunity to pull away - you could set your watch by it - and the Packers staying close until the end. Not so sure about Rodgers coming back though....
Tony Romo? If he is the next best option after Kaepernick, we might as well go with Hundley and sign Randy Wright as a backup.
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Kinda the point.
But people are making it out to be like Kaep is a career criminal. If Donte Stallworth and Michael Vick could survive, so can Kaep.
Got it. I agree with your examples of players who publicly atone in addition to going through the proper legal processes. Vick is my go-to example when i'm asked "Dad, why aren't we rooting for player/team X?". I personally don't think Kaep has anything to atone for publicly and he certainly does not legally. America is the land of second opportunities so it shouldn't be that hard.....
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I have to laugh at the Romo suggestion. He's broken his collarbone three times. He's brittle and couldn't stay healthy behind the Cowboys great line. If he came back for the Pack, he last two games.
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If it was his left shoulder I'd agree with you. It being his throwing shoulder, the likelihood that he is able to return this season in playing shape is low.
That it's his throwing arm only makes me double down.
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Well it was probably not happening anyway, but filing an official grievance is probably the final nail in Kaeps coffin. Cmon Romo!
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Too bad Cutler isn’t available.
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John Hadl?
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Harley-Davidson's profit plummets on weak motorcycle sales
Kaep must ride a Harley.
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Harley-Davidson's profit plummets on weak motorcycle sales
Kaep must ride a Harley.
He must be big in NASCAR, too, because their ratings have really tanked. Their honchos would give their left lugnuts for anything close to NFL ratings.
And it's kind of funny, because no sport wraps itself in 'Merica! the way NASCAR does.
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Mike McCarthy Snaps At Reporter For Asking About Colin Kaepernick
https://deadspin.com/mike-mccarthy-snaps-at-reporter-for-asking-about-colin-1819612931
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=353&v=WLgweGJq5m0
“Did you just listen to the question I just answered?” snapped McCarthy. “Okay, I got three years invested in Brett Hundley, two years invested in Joe Callahan, the quarterback room is exactly where it needs to be.”
I’m not sure if the quarterback room really is exactly where it needs to be.
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Mike McCarthy Snaps At Reporter For Asking About Colin Kaepernick
https://deadspin.com/mike-mccarthy-snaps-at-reporter-for-asking-about-colin-1819612931
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=353&v=WLgweGJq5m0
“Did you just listen to the question I just answered?” snapped McCarthy. “Okay, I got three years invested in Brett Hundley, two years invested in Joe Callahan, the quarterback room is exactly where it needs to be.”
I’m not sure if the quarterback room really is exactly where it needs to be.
But it is the Packers way. And while it won't help this year (and no 'import' could possibly learn the system), it is they way they successfully roll.
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What was the name of the Packer QB that got rich on the basis of one good game against the Lions? Whatever. Bring him back, too.
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What was the name of the Packer QB that got rich on the basis of one good game against the Lions? Whatever. Bring him back, too.
Matt Flynn
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As long as we are throwing all names on the table, I'll add Ty Detmer....
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What’s Blair Kiel up to these days?
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Ryan Leaf, bros, hey?
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John Hadl?
a one. a two, a one. two, three.
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Jerod Evans, Virginia Tech, to the practice squad.
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If I were the Packers, I don't think I'd bring in Kaepernick, either - and it's obviously not because I think Kaepernick lacks the talent to play QB in the NFL.
You're 38% of the way through the season. You have brought along young QBs in your system. See what they can do. It really IS the Packer way, as others have said.
And, yes, they don't need the added circus that Kaepernick would bring at this point. Although the reason for the distraction would be different, it's similar to coaches not wanting to deal with the Tebow circus.
I thought Kaepernick would need to be signed by Week 3 to have a chance to play in the NFL this season. Teams are too far down the road now, especially to deal with the circus.
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i'd give t.j. rubley another shot before the dude who's sorry now. at least rubley might think twice about calling an audible :D
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If I were the Packers, I don't think I'd bring in Kaepernick, either - and it's obviously not because I think Kaepernick lacks the talent to play QB in the NFL.
You're 38% of the way through the season. You have brought along young QBs in your system. See what they can do. It really IS the Packer way, as others have said.
And, yes, they don't need the added circus that Kaepernick would bring at this point. Although the reason for the distraction would be different, it's similar to coaches not wanting to deal with the Tebow circus.
I thought Kaepernick would need to be signed by Week 3 to have a chance to play in the NFL this season. Teams are too far down the road now, especially to deal with the circus.
that's kinda what mccarthy said. callahan is one hungry man. didn't he actually get more snaps than hundley? he didn't look that bad and he knows the system. won't be surprised if hundley has a short leash
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Looks like Trubisky and the Bears will luck out and not have to go against Luke Kuechly on Sunday. Although this injury doesn't appear serious, he's still in concussion protocol and unlikely to play this week.
The Panthers' fine safety, Kurt Coleman, might be back 2 weeks early from his injury, though. And our starting center, All-Pro Ryan Kalil, also is expected to return.
My boyz are ready to start a new winning streak after a tough loss to Philly.
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Looks like Trubisky and the Bears will luck out and not have to go against Luke Kuechly on Sunday. Although this injury doesn't appear serious, he's still in concussion protocol and unlikely to play this week.
The Panthers' fine safety, Kurt Coleman, might be back 2 weeks early from his injury, though. And our starting center, All-Pro Ryan Kalil, also is expected to return.
My boyz are ready to start a new winning streak after a tough loss to Philly.
Luke Kuechly is one of my favorite current players in the NFL but how much longer can he keep playing? He's only 26 and is clearly still one of the best in the game, but he's getting concussed on plays where he doesn't even take a shot to the head. It's getting scary for him.
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Luke Kuechly is one of my favorite current players in the NFL but how much longer can he keep playing? He's only 26 and is clearly still one of the best in the game, but he's getting concussed on plays where he doesn't even take a shot to the head. It's getting scary for him.
I've thought the same thing about him and Jordan Reed (who seemingly gets concussed every game). It's not something we'd pay any attention to in the past, but now it's top of mind.
Bill Simmons has a nice article today about how the NBA is on its way to surpassing the NFL because it's been able to better adapt to changing cultural and media landscape (by, for one, connecting with fans through social media in a deeper way). https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/10/20/16507636/week-7-nfl-picks-mailbag-nba
And that's happening while, at the same time, we watch football on Sundays and constantly confront the damage these guys are doing to themselves - not just gross-looking injuries, but existential damage, to echo Benny's point in the other NFL thread.
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I'm not sure I fully agree with Simmons because I think football is more ingrained into the culture than basketball is. But I guess they said the same thing about baseball 50 years ago right? And then there is this:
Sport / Age of average viewer
PGA Tour 64
ATP 61
NASCAR 58
MLB 57
WTA 55
NFL 50
NHL 49
NBA 42
MLS 40
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/06/05/Research-and-Ratings/Viewership-trends.aspx
And college basketball and football are older than their professional counterparts.
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I love basketball, but after the first 10 games or so, I cannot bring myself to watch the NBA much, because the individual games don't matter. Unlike other sports, the standings basically don't change after 20 games unless there are major injuries. And at that point you still have more than 75% of the season to go. So the whole point of the season becomes just staying healthy if you're good and trying to tank and not alienate your fans if you are not. Really, you can pick from 4 or 5 teams the teams that will be playing in the finals before the first game is played. Lately even the first round of the playoffs is a snooze because there are two types of series. The ones where you know who is going to win and the ones where it doesn't matter who wins because they are going to lose in the next round. The conference finals and finals are usually interesting, and I watch those, because it is excellent basketball.
I think the younger people who like sports for fantasy and highlights, the NBA is great. But I like games that matter more than anything.
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Luke Kuechly is one of my favorite current players in the NFL but how much longer can he keep playing? He's only 26 and is clearly still one of the best in the game, but he's getting concussed on plays where he doesn't even take a shot to the head. It's getting scary for him.
They aren't even sure this latest injury was a concussion, and he's already back to doing most things at practice. The injury itself was nowhere near as scary as last year's when he was crying and disoriented as he left the field - not even close.
But yes, I do get what you're saying. It's a shame that this can happen to Kuechly or anybody else. He's one of my faves, too, a great tackler and very possibly the best MLB in the league. The Panthers have two other very good LBs but they will miss Luke against a team that runs as well as the Bears do.
Bill Simmons has a nice article today about how the NBA is on its way to surpassing the NFL because it's been able to better adapt to changing cultural and media landscape (by, for one, connecting with fans through social media in a deeper way). https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/10/20/16507636/week-7-nfl-picks-mailbag-nba
And that's happening while, at the same time, we watch football on Sundays and constantly confront the damage these guys are doing to themselves - not just gross-looking injuries, but existential damage, to echo Benny's point in the other NFL thread.
Remember that Simmons is probably the biggest NBA fan this side of Screamin' A Smith and therefore I question his objectivity on an issue like this. Despite its "problems," the NFL is still miles ahead of the NBA by just about any measurable metric to measure fan followings, viewership, etc.
But who knows? 20 or 40 years down the line, we could be saying, "Boy, Simmons sure has it right. The NBA is even bigger than the NFL on Mars!"
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Any measurable metric? That's easy, what's more popular outside of the US?
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By the next labor agreements in at least MLB and the NBA, you'll see the number of games on the schedule shrink. MLB's proposed plan with expansion to Portland and Montreal, while realigning and cutting to 156 games makes a lot of sense.
NBA regular season will be vastly different soon. Shrunk down to 74-78 games, with in season tournaments (like FIBA) taking place. The play in tournament for the last playoff seeds seems to be gaining momentum too.
Shorter seasons in those sports, along with less travel, should make for better product.
The NFL should have at a minimum of four bye weeks for each team.
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Did the Bears just give their quarterback this nickname?
https://twitter.com/ChicagoBears/status/922110217344700416
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Did the Bears just give their quarterback this nickname?
https://twitter.com/ChicagoBears/status/922110217344700416
Players did.
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Players did.
I wouldn't be too happy with my peers if I got the nickname "Pretty Boy".
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I wouldn't be too happy with my peers if I got the nickname "Pretty Boy".
Yeah, I don't think he cares.
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By the next labor agreements in at least MLB and the NBA, you'll see the number of games on the schedule shrink. MLB's proposed plan with expansion to Portland and Montreal, while realigning and cutting to 156 games makes a lot of sense.
NBA regular season will be vastly different soon. Shrunk down to 74-78 games, with in season tournaments (like FIBA) taking place. The play in tournament for the last playoff seeds seems to be gaining momentum too.
Shorter seasons in those sports, along with less travel, should make for better product.
The NFL should have at a minimum of four bye weeks for each team.
I'm not so sure on a number of levels. Montreal didn't support a team last time, why do they get another crack?
Content is worth money, less games mean less $$ which means lower contracts for all. Follow the money.
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I'm not so sure on a number of levels. Montreal didn't support a team last time, why do they get another crack?
Content is worth money, less games mean less $$ which means lower contracts for all. Follow the money.
You're missing the extra revenue generated by the additional round of wild card games.
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I wouldn't be too happy with my peers if I got the nickname "Pretty Boy".
Should give that name to Leonard Floyd. Bears blow out Panthers with 5 first downs.
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Skol Vikings - we are the best!
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That Panthers team today...yuck. Completely disinterested on offense.
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I continue to feel pretty good that the Pats will be a Playoff team and the Panthers won’t.
Packers won’t either. They aren’t winning anything with Hundley.
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Hundley was poor. The play calling was abysmal. I mean, the guy has been in the program for three years and you can't run your playbook? The pass protection wasn't good either.
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That Panthers team today...yuck. Completely disinterested on offense.
Difficult for me to watch, obviously. "Disinterested" is a good description. "Crappy" is another.
My boyz can play well enough to win at New England one week, and then play like that against Chicago.
Congrats to your Bears. They probably don't keep such stats, but they might have had the fewest yards and lowest time of possession in any 2-touchdown win in NFL history!
I do like the Bears' defense, though. Definitely something to build on.
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I continue to feel pretty good that the Pats will be a Playoff team and the Panthers won’t.
Packers won’t either. They aren’t winning anything with Hundley.
I already said Pats would be a playoff team and expressed joy that you didn't jump on that bet. Panthers' division is nothing special, either, and 9-7 or 10-6 probably will be enough; I'm not giving up on them.
I also went on the record to say that I wouldn't have bothered with Kaepernick if I were the Packers because they don't need the circus. But I think it's safe to say that he wouldn't have done any worse than that jamoke!
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You're missing the extra revenue generated by the additional round of wild card games.
But home games are guaranteed revenue for regular season games. If you go to wild card games, that's much fewer teams participating in the pie. I also don't think they will do it for statistical purposes. MLB is grounded in statistics. We could go back to 156, pre 1960, but hard for me to see it. NBA has been 80 to 82 games since 1961.
It would be extremely unlikely the NFL is going to add three more bye weekends.
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Packers won’t either. They aren’t winning anything with Hundley.
As usual Capers' boys were shredded again. Almost 500 yards. Team was ill-prepared. NO ran screens at will in 1st half. Capers adjusted at halftime, but as usual, he was a day late and a dollar short.
Secondly, the MYTH that is Ted Thompson will be exposed this year. This has always been a 5 or 6 win team + ARod. Realistically, without Aaron, the ONLY team we can say we are better than is Cleveland.
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I think you are correct about Ted. Team has a bunch of solid players but very few play makers.
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Hold up, lets at least acknowledge that McCarthy has been riding Rodgers coat tails for almost a decade. I'm glad these buffoons are getting exposed.
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But home games are guaranteed revenue for regular season games. If you go to wild card games, that's much fewer teams participating in the pie. I also don't think they will do it for statistical purposes. MLB is grounded in statistics. We could go back to 156, pre 1960, but hard for me to see it. NBA has been 80 to 82 games since 1961.
It would be extremely unlikely the NFL is going to add three more bye weekends.
I'm assuming you didn't read the Tracy Ringolsby article.
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I continue to feel pretty good that the Pats will be a Playoff team and the Panthers won’t.
Packers won’t either. They aren’t winning anything with Hundley.
He sucks ass, ai na?
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He sucks ass, ai na?
Amen Doc.
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I mean, this is only going to set up the inevitable disappointment when Hundley is gonna throw for 350 and 3 touchdowns against the Bears...
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7 teams today with no offensive touchdowns.
This has not been a banner NFL year.
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I mean, this is only going to set up the inevitable disappointment when Hundley is gonna throw for 350 and 3 touchdowns against the Bears...
The Bears Still Suck.
But, that is not happening.
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I'm assuming you didn't read the Tracy Ringolsby article.
This one? http://www.baseballamerica.com/columnists/expansion-trigger-realignment-longer-postseason/#lo6ItEV1fy7lSYPU.97
In my view, do not see most of this happening.
Getting rid of the AL and NL, this would upset so many baseball purists it is dead in the water.
Canada may want another team, but that's like saying Seattle wants a basketball team or any number of NHL cities that have lost a team. It might happen, but I don't think the prospects are high once you had your chance and lost it.
The DH or not the DH, that's intriguing for many baseball fans and this does away it or makes it permanent.
So much of these proposals alienate the fanbase it is hard for me to see this seeing the light of day. The schedule balance, already a mess becomes more of a mess. You basically play your division 85% of the time and then only 3 games against the other teams. So if you're on the east coast and get to see Mike Trout once a year now, you may get to see him once every other year. Or Altuve, or fill in the blank player. Essentially seeing the same teams over and over and over again, that's going to wear thin with the fans very quickly in my opinion. The regional rivalries also isn't one of fairness.
Double headers? No way the union is going to go for that and the managers hate them.
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7 teams today with no offensive touchdowns.
This has not been a banner NFL year.
It's an ugly, hard to watch product right now as a whole.
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As usual Capers' boys were shredded again. Almost 500 yards. Team was ill-prepared. NO ran screens at will in 1st half. Capers adjusted at halftime, but as usual, he was a day late and a dollar short.
Secondly, the MYTH that is Ted Thompson will be exposed this year. This has always been a 5 or 6 win team + ARod. Realistically, without Aaron, the ONLY team we can say we are better than is Cleveland.
Hard for a defense to hold up against a Bree's offense that's coming at them repeatedly because the offense can't sustain a drive. Defense did enough keep the game close if they had partnered with an even average offense.
MM wants to say he's happy with his QBs, all well and good...then turn them loose. Majority of offensive issues were play calls(all MM) and pre-snap reads(Hundley was not prepared IMO). Legend of MM will be made or broken over next couple of weeks, post bye
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Hard for a defense to hold up against a Bree's offense that's coming at them repeatedly because the offense can't sustain a drive. Defense did enough keep the game close if they had partnered with an even average offense.
MM wants to say he's happy with his QBs, all well and good...then turn them loose. Majority of offensive issues were play calls(all MM) and pre-snap reads(Hundley was not prepared IMO). Legend of MM will be made or broken over next couple of weeks, post bye
Yup, that's where I am. Hundley stinks, but McCarthy isn't helping him. With Hundley under center, Aaron Jones needs to be approaching 30 touches, not 17. And we weren't playing catchup until the middle of the 4th quarter, so it's not like we had to take the running game out of the playbook.
Mac struggles mightily to adjust. I get it, every team is going to be worse when their quarterback goes down, especially immediately after it happens. But look how bad the offense was when Jordy went down for the entire first half of the season.
Also, I think Morgan Burnett is to the defense what Rodgers is to the offense. Not to the extent that Rodgers does his thing offensively because Rodgers is a better quarterback than Burnett is a safety, but every time Burnett is out it seems like offenses have so much open space on the field. Defensive players just seem to be in better spots when Burnett is out there.
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Yup, that's where I am. Hundley stinks, but McCarthy isn't helping him. With Hundley under center, Aaron Jones needs to be approaching 30 touches, not 17. And we weren't playing catchup until the middle of the 4th quarter, so it's not like we had to take the running game out of the playbook.
Mac struggles mightily to adjust. I get it, every team is going to be worse when their quarterback goes down, especially immediately after it happens. But look how bad the offense was when Jordy went down for the entire first half of the season.
Also, I think Morgan Burnett is to the defense what Rodgers is to the offense. Not to the extent that Rodgers does his thing offensively because Rodgers is a better quarterback than Burnett is a safety, but every time Burnett is out it seems like offenses have so much open space on the field. Defensive players just seem to be in better spots when Burnett is out there.
Agree on Mac not helping. Best example was early in the game. Jones was dominating. 3rd and 1, calls up a quick slant that had zero chance with Rodgers under center. Just plain stupid.
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Agree on Mac not helping. Best example was early in the game. Jones was dominating. 3rd and 1, calls up a quick slant that had zero chance with Rodgers under center. Just plain stupid.
That was a run/pass option and Hundley chose to pass.
I thought the biggest mistakes were never passing on first down and leaving him with 3rd and 5+ pretty much the entire game after the second quarter.
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That was a run/pass option and Hundley chose to pass.
I thought the biggest mistakes were never passing on first down and leaving him with 3rd and 5+ pretty much the entire game after the second quarter.
Which goes back to Hundleys unpreparedness at pre-snap reads. He'll get better with live experience
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Hard for a defense to hold up against a Bree's offense that's coming at them repeatedly because the offense can't sustain a drive. Defense did enough keep the game close if they had partnered with an even average offense.
MM wants to say he's happy with his QBs, all well and good...then turn them loose. Majority of offensive issues were play calls(all MM) and pre-snap reads(Hundley was not prepared IMO). Legend of MM will be made or broken over next couple of weeks, post bye
What? The defense quit in the 2nd half. They gave up almost 500 yards. How is that playing well? Anybody watching the game saw this. Having 10 players on the field on a New Orleans TD is inexcusable. Calling a time out another time there were only 10 men on the field is inexcusable.
Capers has to go. This team has spent high pick after high pick on defensive players and they continue to suck year after year. Absolutely no pressure on Brees the entire game. The only sack was when the tackle tripped over the guard's foot and Perry had a free rush. They can't rush the QB; they can't defend receivers. The Bears rebuilt their defense in two years to one of the better defenses in the league. GB falters year after year regardless of the bodies on the field. You could get by with ARod on the field. They will finish dead last in their division.
The "legend" of MM will not depend on a backup 5th round QB.
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What? The defense quit in the 2nd half. They gave up almost 500 yards. How is that playing well? Anybody watching the game saw this. Having 10 players on the field on a New Orleans TD is inexcusable. Calling a time out another time there were only 10 men on the field is inexcusable.
Capers has to go. This team has spent high pick after high pick on defensive players and they continue to suck year after year. Absolutely no pressure on Brees the entire game. The only sack was when the tackle tripped over the guard's foot and Perry had a free rush. They can't rush the QB; they can't defend receivers. The Bears rebuilt their defense in two years to one of the better defenses in the league. GB falters year after year regardless of the bodies on the field. You could get by with ARod on the field. They will finish dead last in their division.
The "legend" of MM will not depend on a backup 5th round QB.
Look at the drive charts, especially in the 2nd half of the game....the defense didn't have any time to recover. TOP was 21-9 in the 2nd half in favor of the Saints....that works if you score touchdowns on 3 out of 4 possessions but to come away with 3 points....what did you want the defense to do exactly.
http://cdn.espn.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=400951585 (http://cdn.espn.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=400951585)
I will grant you the defense is not perfect and this is really represented by a mismatch in styles between Capers and TT. Capers runs a very sophisticated D, which favors savvy veteran players, which is in polar opposition to TT's draft and cheap talent. However, to pin the NO loss on the defense is to ignore the fundamental truths of the game.
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Look at the drive charts, especially in the 2nd half of the game....the defense didn't have any time to recover. TOP was 21-9 in the 2nd half in favor of the Saints....that works if you score touchdowns on 3 out of 4 possessions but to come away with 3 points....what did you want the defense to do exactly.
http://cdn.espn.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=400951585 (http://cdn.espn.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=400951585)
I will grant you the defense is not perfect and this is really represented by a mismatch in styles between Capers and TT. Capers runs a very sophisticated D, which favors savvy veteran players, which is in polar opposition to TT's draft and cheap talent. However, to pin the NO loss on the defense is to ignore the fundamental truths of the game.
You're right. I didn't mean to place all blame on the defense. I was just pointing out they were bad.
I thought MM's game plan was as bad as Capers'. You can't have your QBbe a game manager when you know the defense will get torched.
Good news? Lots of good QB prospects so GB should get one of the top 3 defensive prospects for a change.
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That was a run/pass option and Hundley chose to pass.
I thought the biggest mistakes were never passing on first down and leaving him with 3rd and 5+ pretty much the entire game after the second quarter.
There is zero reason to call a run/pass option for Hundley in that situation. Not experienced enough to make the right decision. Go two tight ends and give it to Jones. Then do a run/pass option on 1st down if you want.
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This one? http://www.baseballamerica.com/columnists/expansion-trigger-realignment-longer-postseason/#lo6ItEV1fy7lSYPU.97
In my view, do not see most of this happening.
Getting rid of the AL and NL, this would upset so many baseball purists it is dead in the water.
Canada may want another team, but that's like saying Seattle wants a basketball team or any number of NHL cities that have lost a team. It might happen, but I don't think the prospects are high once you had your chance and lost it.
The DH or not the DH, that's intriguing for many baseball fans and this does away it or makes it permanent.
So much of these proposals alienate the fanbase it is hard for me to see this seeing the light of day. The schedule balance, already a mess becomes more of a mess. You basically play your division 85% of the time and then only 3 games against the other teams. So if you're on the east coast and get to see Mike Trout once a year now, you may get to see him once every other year. Or Altuve, or fill in the blank player. Essentially seeing the same teams over and over and over again, that's going to wear thin with the fans very quickly in my opinion. The regional rivalries also isn't one of fairness.
Double headers? No way the union is going to go for that and the managers hate them.
I disagree with some of this. In the new proposal you will be playing 7 teams a total of 84 games. Currently you play 4 teams a total of 76 games. That is seeing the same teams over and over again to a greater extent with the current model. I don't like the proposal but for the opposite reason you suggest. As a Red Sox fan, I don't want less games against the Orioles and Yankees (admittedly feel less strongly about the Rays and Jays). Those are the most fun games to me as a fan.
If they ever did go to 32 teams, I think the most sensible thing is two leagues with 4 divisions of 4 teams. Play 18 games against each team in your own division and 9 against the other teams in your league for a 162 game schedule. Or reduce some of the other league teams (like 6 instead of 9) to add interleague games, which I would like to get rid of.
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$cam Newton back to walking out of press conferences again because he didn't perform well and got asked about it. I didn't follow it, but I highly doubt he was walking out of press conferences the week after the Patriots game.
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$cam Newton back to walking out of press conferences again because he didn't perform well and got asked about it. I didn't follow it, but I highly doubt he was walking out of press conferences the week after the Patriots game.
And he didn't show up for his weekly press conference at all the previous week.
I'm not happy with Cam's comportment at all. He's supposed to be a leader.
I say that even though I have been one of Cam's biggest supporters. He has to hold himself accountable and stop acting like a baby.
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Now we have the Texans owner, a Trump supporter named Bob McNair, comparing NFL players to prison inmates.
http://nypost.com/2017/10/27/texans-star-skips-practice-players-sickened-by-owners-remarks/
Wonderful.
Naturally, he issued a weak-arse apology filled with spin.
https://sports.yahoo.com/inmates-running-prison-owners-divided-protest-responses-153336778.html
Also in the above link, see the lie by Daniel Snyder, claiming that 96% of Americans want the players to stand when a recent poll actually revealed that 51% of Americans felt players should not be required to stand.
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Now we have the Texans owner, a Trump supporter named Bob McNair, comparing NFL players to prison inmates.
http://nypost.com/2017/10/27/texans-star-skips-practice-players-sickened-by-owners-remarks/
Wonderful.
Naturally, he issued a weak-arse apology filled with spin.
https://sports.yahoo.com/inmates-running-prison-owners-divided-protest-responses-153336778.html
Also in the above link, see the lie by Daniel Snyder, claiming that 96% of Americans want the players to stand when a recent poll actually revealed that 51% of Americans felt players should not be required to stand.
I guess the word "thug" slipped McNair's mind, so he used "inmates" instead.
The objections to the protests are all about race. Similar to the Harvey Weinstein situation. It was only when rich, white women started revealing what he did that it was taken seriously.
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To be honest, I don't think McNair meant to compare they players to inmates. It is a common phrase. But it was a very unfortunate choice of words and the players are understandably upset.
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To be honest, I don't think McNair meant to compare they players to inmates. It is a common phrase. But it was a very unfortunate choice of words and the players are understandably upset.
That was my first thought, as well. But after learning that he was the biggest contributor among NFL owners to a bragging sexual criminal, I decided to not cut him any slack.
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Yeah, it wuz dat lilly, livered, Roger dat fooked da ‘hole mess up, ai na?
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Yeah, it wuz dat lilly, livered, Roger dat fooked da ‘hole mess up, ai na?
No.
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Another thread ruined....sigh
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Another thread ruined....sigh
Unbelievable how “they” continue to get away with that passive/ aggressive stuff and we have to keep taking the high road, discretionary valor, turn the other butt cheek, what have you, eyn’a so?
So, how ‘bout that ole Indian packing company :-\
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To be honest, I don't think McNair meant to compare they players to inmates. It is a common phrase. But it was a very unfortunate choice of words and the players are understandably upset.
It was a whole lot of nothing. It's a figure of speech. Nothing more. Sure, he could have said that they can't let the tail wag the dog and it would have been fine. This is a classic case of one side looking for a reason to be outraged at the other side.
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It was a whole lot of nothing. It's a figure of speech. Nothing more. Sure, he could have said that they can't let the tail wag the dog and it would have been fine. This is a classic case of one side looking for a reason to be outraged at the other side.
Very well stated. This relates to our conversation re: PC speak. Depends on what you say to who and when...and who says it
Now, anyone think Callahan gets a chance next week? Huntley has got to be on a short leash. If Callahan doesn’t look good, it may be time to talk to that kid from Burlington, wi. We’ve got 6-7 weeks to go. And that’s if Aaron is in game shape. Ya can’t expect him to be throwing blue darters the minute he steps back onto the field this was his right/throwing collarbone, not his right testicle we’re talkin about
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It was a whole lot of nothing. It's a figure of speech. Nothing more. Sure, he could have said that they can't let the tail wag the dog and it would have been fine. This is a classic case of one side looking for a reason to be outraged at the other side.
“We can’t have the inmates run the jail.” I’m not sure I’ve ever heard that figure of speech before this past week. Even if “all it is” is a figure of speech, given the initial “cause” for the protests, that would be one of the worst figures of speech you could’ve possibly used there. The guy deserves all the backlash and more that he gets for being stupid enough to use those words in this situation.
I was all on board for Kaepernick’s “protest” being stupid and ineffective, but between the Commander in Tweet being unable to close his mouth and now this guy using those words, the problem is showing through and through just based on the reactions by the rich white males.
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It was a whole lot of nothing. It's a figure of speech. Nothing more. Sure, he could have said that they can't let the tail wag the dog and it would have been fine. This is a classic case of one side looking for a reason to be outraged at the other side.
The problem was only party in the words he used. Even if he used the "tail wag the dog" saying instead, that implies that the players are the ones to be "wagged" by the owners. That isn't simply outrage, that implies that the players are subservient to the owners.
It's just so easy to write people off as "outraged." It's a very easy way to dismiss their point of view.
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The problem was only party in the words he used. Even if he used the "tail wag the dog" saying instead, that implies that the players are the ones to be "wagged" by the owners. That isn't simply outrage, that implies that the players are subservient to the owners.
It's just so easy to write people off as "outraged." It's a very easy way to dismiss their point of view.
Yup. Exactly.
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The problem was only party in the words he used. Even if he used the "tail wag the dog" saying instead, that implies that the players are the ones to be "wagged" by the owners. That isn't simply outrage, that implies that the players are subservient to the owners.
It's just so easy to write people off as "outraged." It's a very easy way to dismiss their point of view.
Who's in charge of running NFL franchises: owners or players?
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Who's in charge of running NFL franchises: owners or players?
That's not the point. Do you supervise employees? How do you think they would react if you referred to them as "inmates" or the "tail?" It's offensive.
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Who's in charge of running NFL franchises: owners or players?
Goodell and the owners should have nipped this in the bud, but they totally underestimated the reaction by the fans. Initially, they(the owners and the commish) thought either, they were on the right side of it by ignoring it, or it would blow over. Wrong and wrong. It’s going to take a while to right this ship and that will take some leadership.
It seems, unless I’ve missed something, both baseball and basketball are doing the wise thing and sticking to what they know. The players are essentially hijacking the audience and the product that the owners are trying to provide to their customers and the players are mooning them. It’s not very smart to essentially take a nonpartisan product and divide your customers. Just ask the Dixie chicks. Hollywood is also dying a slow death. If I wore my politics on my sleeve at my office, I would be about 1/2 as busy
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Goodell and the owners should have nipped this in the bud, but they totally underestimated the reaction by the fans. Initially, they(the owners and the commish) thought either, they were on the right side of it by ignoring it, or it would blow over. Wrong and wrong. It’s going to take a while to right this ship and that will take some leadership.
It seems, unless I’ve missed something, both baseball and basketball are doing the wise thing and sticking to what they know. The players are essentially hijacking the audience and the product that the owners are trying to provide to their customers and the players are mooning them. It’s not very smart to essentially take a nonpartisan product and divide your customers. Just ask the Dixie chicks. Hollywood is also dying a slow death. If I wore my politics on my sleeve at my office, I would be about 1/2 as busy
Baseball and basketball owners have done a very good job at making peace with their respective labor unions. The NFL and its union have been fighting for awhile about all sorts of issues and I think the players feel that this is a way they can fight back. Nothing they have done has been against the rules. And they aren't going to let them impose one easily.
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Martellis Bennett may call this his last year despite signing a 3 year $21 million contract. I think he reads the writing on the wall-the feeling may be mutual. He hasn’t done squat for us and/ or they haven’t really been targeting him. I’m sure if they had confidence in him, he would get more looks
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21200624/martellus-bennett-green-bay-packers-says-pretty-sure-retire-season
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It was a whole lot of nothing. It's a figure of speech. Nothing more. Sure, he could have said that they can't let the tail wag the dog and it would have been fine. This is a classic case of one side looking for a reason to be outraged at the other side.
Sure. And PR 101 is never give an audience looking to be outraged a reason to be outraged. I'm 99% sure his intent wasn't bad but he made a mistake.
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Goodell and the owners should have nipped this in the bud, but they totally underestimated the reaction by the fans. Initially, they(the owners and the commish) thought either, they were on the right side of it by ignoring it, or it would blow over. Wrong and wrong.
The right move was to let it blow over. I wrote on this site probably about a year ago that the worst thing the NFL could do was make Kaepernick a martyr. Whether they meant to or not, they made Kaepernick a martyr the second the season started without him on a roster. No one owner was willing to bite the bullet so to speak to keep this from snowballing.
Even without Kaep on a roster, the protest was dying out. The only protesters at the beginning of the season that I could remember was M Bennett and M Lynch (and we're not even sure if he's protesting or just being Lynch). It was blowing over on it's own. Then the unthinkable happened. The President of the United States of America weighed in and dubbed the protesters SOBs and called for them to be fired, breathing new life into the protest and inspiring dozens more to participate. Not only that, but he has continued the fight for weeks on end. Every time the protest dies down a little bit, he fires of a tweet to get it riled back up again.
Kaep not getting signed was foreseeable. The NFL should have done more in advanced to try and encourage someone to pick up Kaep, maybe they did, I don't know. POTUS turning this into a firestorm was unforseeable in my opinion. Can you imagine any past president, no matter what the party, doing this? I can't.
There is strong leadership needed on this, but not from the NFL. There is one man who could end the anthem protests in a quick, efficient, and painless manner. Trump. If he stopped tweeting on this matter, I would bet that all but maybe Lynch and Bennett would stop protesting within the month.
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Sure. And PR 101 is never give an audience looking to be outraged a reason to be outraged. I'm 99% sure his intent wasn't bad but he made a mistake.
Yea, he did. I assume he meant to use the phrase "the inmates are running the asylum" but butchered it by replacing asylum with prison. Nevertheless, even if used colloquially, why in god's name would you want to analogize ownership with a prison? Oof. Stupid.
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The guy admitted it was stupid and he has apologized a couple times. Ok, it was STUPID. He has genuinely apologized...and the players are going to get as much mileage as they can out of this anyway. These players are playing the victim card like “pro’s”. What do they really want? If there is to truly be some kind of compromise, the players can’t go off all unhinged every time someone uses an them that supposedly offends them. Watch-they are going to try to make McNair sell the team or give up his luxury suite or maybe park his tricked out range rove for a week or go visit a real prison, or...?? I mean, they better be careful not to overplay this stuff cuz what goes around, goes around
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The guy admitted it was stupid and he has apologized a couple times. Ok, it was STUPID. He has genuinely apologized...and the players are going to get as much mileage as they can out of this anyway. These players are playing the victim card like “pro’s”. What do they really want? If there is to truly be some kind of compromise, the players can’t go off all unhinged every time someone uses an them that supposedly offends them. Watch-they are going to try to make McNair sell the team or give up his luxury suite or maybe park his tricked out range rove for a week or go visit a real prison, or...?? I mean, they better be careful not to overplay this stuff cuz what goes around, goes around
Who is going off unhinged? The players are upset about the mind-set of the owners overall and this is the latest evidence of that problem. I think the players have had reasonable responses to this entire issue.
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That's not the point. Do you supervise employees? How do you think they would react if you referred to them as "inmates" or the "tail?" It's offensive.
There's a difference between directly calling them "inmates" and using a figure of speech. If the CEO of my company said that people at my level weren't capable of running the company, I wouldn't be offended. That's what McNair did.
Who is going off unhinged? The players are upset about the mind-set of the owners overall and this is the latest evidence of that problem. I think the players have had reasonable responses to this entire issue.
Was the protest started because of players feeling disrespected by ownership? No, it was about a group of people with a voice attempting to speak up for those they believe are not treated fairly in this country. That's a noble cause. Unfortunately, it's now about millionaires fighting with billionaires.
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Was the protest started because of players feeling disrespected by ownership? No, it was about a group of people with a voice attempting to speak up for those they believe are not treated fairly in this country.
Not sure that's what it was....
...nonetheless, Goddell will lose his job over this. Poor leadership; bye bye
Skol Vikings
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Not sure that's what it was....
...nonetheless, Goddell will lose his job over this. Poor leadership; bye bye
Skol Vikings
Game’s on in the garage
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The right move was to let it blow over. I wrote on this site probably about a year ago that the worst thing the NFL could do was make Kaepernick a martyr. Whether they meant to or not, they made Kaepernick a martyr the second the season started without him on a roster. No one owner was willing to bite the bullet so to speak to keep this from snowballing.
Even without Kaep on a roster, the protest was dying out. The only protesters at the beginning of the season that I could remember was M Bennett and M Lynch (and we're not even sure if he's protesting or just being Lynch). It was blowing over on it's own. Then the unthinkable happened. The President of the United States of America weighed in and dubbed the protesters SOBs and called for them to be fired, breathing new life into the protest and inspiring dozens more to participate. Not only that, but he has continued the fight for weeks on end. Every time the protest dies down a little bit, he fires of a tweet to get it riled back up again.
He thinks it is helping him because it fires up his base. But is it helping him?
https://twitter.com/dandrezner/status/924625889610076160
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There's a difference between directly calling them "inmates" and using a figure of speech. If the CEO of my company said that people at my level weren't capable of running the company, I wouldn't be offended. That's what McNair did.
Was the protest started because of players feeling disrespected by ownership? No, it was about a group of people with a voice attempting to speak up for those they believe are not treated fairly in this country. That's a noble cause. Unfortunately, it's now about millionaires fighting with billionaires.
So you can’t be treated unfairly if you make millions of dollars?
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A little perspective on NFL ratings:
Through week seven, the NFL is down 5% overall from the same point last year. That's a troubling drop for the biggest ratings powerhouse on TV, but it seems less dire when you consider that the four major networks are down an average 8% in prime time.
NBC is down 4%, CBS is down 6%, ABC is down 11%, and Fox's prime time viewership dropped 20% through the first month of the new TV season, according to Nielsen data. And those numbers are down despite the inclusion of live sporting events, which usually bring in big audiences.
https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/10/27/nfl-2017-ratings-national-anthem-protests
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A little perspective on NFL ratings:
Through week seven, the NFL is down 5% overall from the same point last year. That's a troubling drop for the biggest ratings powerhouse on TV, but it seems less dire when you consider that the four major networks are down an average 8% in prime time.
NBC is down 4%, CBS is down 6%, ABC is down 11%, and Fox's prime time viewership dropped 20% through the first month of the new TV season, according to Nielsen data. And those numbers are down despite the inclusion of live sporting events, which usually bring in big audiences.
https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/10/27/nfl-2017-ratings-national-anthem-protests
The 20% drop for Fox is pretty striking. Not sure what their slate of shows looks like, as that would be the most obvious source of a drop (bad programing), but are the sexual harassment allegations (ailes and others) hurting them?
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Wow, I thought before the year that CLE was building things the right way and just needed to suffer through a year or two without tearing it all down. Now I'm not sure. I can tell you Hue will be back in Cincy within hours if hes let go. Don't see how he avoids it.
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6-2 for the CONSENSUS.
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As I said a few weeks, much of this is being driven by Mr. Lockhart (yes, that Joe Lockhart), which is why the NFL is absolutely floundering on messaging here. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/29/sports/football/nfl-anthem-lockhart.html
Now Goodell's contract may be on hold as multiple owners are asking how many screw-ups does he get. Ratings are down 20% from two years ago, 9% this year. Attendance no-shows up.
Jerry Jones isn't stupid and he flat out said the protests are hurting the image and bottom line. Of course it is, to deny this is crazy.
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The right move was to let it blow over. I wrote on this site probably about a year ago that the worst thing the NFL could do was make Kaepernick a martyr. Whether they meant to or not, they made Kaepernick a martyr the second the season started without him on a roster. No one owner was willing to bite the bullet so to speak to keep this from snowballing.
Even without Kaep on a roster, the protest was dying out. The only protesters at the beginning of the season that I could remember was M Bennett and M Lynch (and we're not even sure if he's protesting or just being Lynch). It was blowing over on it's own. Then the unthinkable happened. The President of the United States of America weighed in and dubbed the protesters SOBs and called for them to be fired, breathing new life into the protest and inspiring dozens more to participate. Not only that, but he has continued the fight for weeks on end. Every time the protest dies down a little bit, he fires of a tweet to get it riled back up again.
Kaep not getting signed was foreseeable. The NFL should have done more in advanced to try and encourage someone to pick up Kaep, maybe they did, I don't know. POTUS turning this into a firestorm was unforseeable in my opinion. Can you imagine any past president, no matter what the party, doing this? I can't.
There is strong leadership needed on this, but not from the NFL. There is one man who could end the anthem protests in a quick, efficient, and painless manner. Trump. If he stopped tweeting on this matter, I would bet that all but maybe Lynch and Bennett would stop protesting within the month.
The data I have shows that is not correct. It wasn't dying out, impacts were still going on in ratings viewership prior to the President saying a word. Did he throw fuel on the fire? He absolutely did, but to suggest it was dying out when #boycottNFL was in full swing last year and the first few weeks this year. Let's not forget the President didn't make his comments until the Friday before week 3, and he made them why? Because players were continuing to take a knee. If they had stopped, he doesn't make the comments. They got his attention and he made a comment, one that many viewers were already upset about. Let's not pretend this was dying out, because the ratings (actual data) show that wasn't the case.
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I'm a big Zach Miller fan. Suffered a horrific looking injury today while attempting to complete a 1 handed TD catch. (Terrible review). May have been the worst overturn since Megatron. Feel awful for Miller. He was also a security blanket for Trubisky
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I mean if that catch by Miller isn't a TD...I give up. The NFL product just flat out sucks.
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I mean if that catch by Miller isn't a TD...I give up. The NFL product just flat out sucks.
I happened to walk in as that happened. Ball was never shown hitting the ground at any angle given. Guess the NFL has changed since I regularly watched it.
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I happened to walk in as that happened. Ball was never shown hitting the ground at any angle given. Guess the NFL has changed since I regularly watched it.
It's funny because I left the room to go grab a snack, came back in and saw 14-6 on the screen, and was legit shocked. It never even occurred to me there was a remote possibility of a review. Dean Blandino couldn't even come up with a reason why it wasn't a TD.
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The data I have shows that is not correct. It wasn't dying out, impacts were still going on in ratings viewership prior to the President saying a word. Did he throw fuel on the fire? He absolutely did, but to suggest it was dying out when #boycottNFL was in full swing last year and the first few weeks this year. Let's not forget the President didn't make his comments until the Friday before week 3, and he made them why? Because players were continuing to take a knee. If they had stopped, he doesn't make the comments. They got his attention and he made a comment, one that many viewers were already upset about. Let's not pretend this was dying out, because the ratings (actual data) show that wasn't the case.
The actual data i was using was the amount of players protesting. It was steadily going down until POTUS got involved. After the initial mass response to POTUS the numbers went down every week until POTUS and McNair stirred it up again.
No one is denying that protests have had an impact, but no one knows how big of an impact. There are hundreds of reasons why people might not be watching football as much this season. This is death by a thousand cuts. This is just the cut that people pay the most attention to.
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“We can’t have the inmates run the jail.” I’m not sure I’ve ever heard that figure of speech before this past week. Even if “all it is” is a figure of speech, given the initial “cause” for the protests, that would be one of the worst figures of speech you could’ve possibly used there. The guy deserves all the backlash and more that he gets for being stupid enough to use those words in this situation.
I was all on board for Kaepernick’s “protest” being stupid and ineffective, but between the Commander in Tweet being unable to close his mouth and now this guy using those words, the problem is showing through and through just based on the reactions by the rich white males.
It's a good thing the players aren't saying stupid things, like playing for million paychecks is the same thing as slavery. Oh wait
http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/19/michael-bennett-thinks-being-a-millionaire-nfl-player-is-similar-to-slavery/
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So you can’t be treated unfairly if you make millions of dollars?
So it's ok for the players to call the owners slave masters? Is that being treated unfairly?
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It's a good thing the players aren't saying stupid things, like playing for million paychecks is the same thing as slavery. Oh wait
http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/19/michael-bennett-thinks-being-a-millionaire-nfl-player-is-similar-to-slavery/
So it's ok for the players to call the owners slave masters? Is that being treated unfairly?
Which has literally nothing to do with what I was talking about. But classic Chicolooper. The rich white man makes an embarrassingly stupid statement so let’s find a case of an African American saying something somewhat stupid and say, “Hey, it’s all good for the rich white man to say what he said, the rich black man said something else.”
Sad.
But, since you bring it up, it appears Bennett isn’t all that far off. I guess those owners don’t think of the players as slaves, “just” as inmates. This case kind of just proved his point. So you, the persecuted white man you always point out that you are, just brought attention to something that seemed stupid at the time, but...
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Which has literally nothing to do with what I was talking about. But classic Chicolooper. The rich white man makes an embarrassingly stupid statement so let’s find a case of an African American saying something somewhat stupid and say, “Hey, it’s all good for the rich white man to say what he said, the rich black man said something else.”
Sad.
But, since you bring it up, it appears Bennett isn’t all that far off. I guess those owners don’t think of the players as slaves, just as inmates. This case kind of just proved his point. So you, the persecuted white man you always point out that you are, “just” brought attention to something that seemed stupid at the time, but...
This. Of course.
Banny McBannerson, who shouldn't even be allowed on this board, will look for every possible defense of rich, white people. He loves the overdog! It is more predictable than the sun setting each day.
Other great posts: The one showing that NFL ratings are not going down as much as TV prime-time ratings overall; and, especially, the one showing that the VAST majority of Americans disapproved of Trump's inane and ridiculous handling of the NFL protests.
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The previous chief of my department said words to the effect that firefighters are lazy and responding to alarms is the least important thing we do. This after reducing staffing by 25% while alarms increased by 25% Trust was broken. No words spoken by the chief during the remainder of their tenure were trusted or believed. Every memo, every policy, every meeting, was treated with distrust and disdain. As far as we were concerned, the chief basically ceased to exist. A grad student did a survey during the last 6 months of that chief's tenure that showed 96% of the department did not trust the chief. And this chief had been promoted from within, once served by our side.
This is a long way of saying that the Houston owner has now lost the trust of his team. He still pays them, but he no longer has their respect. And it will take years to regain it, if he is lucky. And more than likely, they are going to keep up their protest and he will eventually say something else stupid. Which will only escalate the divide. From experience, they are now playing for each other and will warn others thinking about coming to Houston to stay away.
Which, in the end, is ok with me. I won't miss the NFL when it is gone.
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All but 10 of the Texans took a knee today. Good.
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All but 10 of the Texans took a knee today. Good.
Loved watching them lose!
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Loved watching them lose!
You’re used to watching teams you love lose!
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You’re used to watching teams you love lose!
6-2. Holla
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6-2. Holla
Kind of like when they were 5-0 just one short year ago. That turned out great.
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Bears are gonna have many years of regret for screwing up the QB pick in the draft.
And Houston really lucked out.
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Sad.
But, since you bring it up, it appears Bennett isn’t all that far off. I guess those owners don’t think of the players as slaves, “just” as inmates. This case kind of just proved his point. So you, the persecuted white man you always point out that you are, just brought attention to something that seemed stupid at the time, but...
It is sad, for anyone to suggest Bennett isn't that far off to compare Dred Scott and slavery to anything remotely of that a NFL player deals with. Agree, incredibly sad and stupid for him to make that comparison. Anyone that suggests he isn't that far off flunked history or is willfully ignoring it.
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It is sad, for anyone to suggest Bennett isn't that far off to compare Dred Scott and slavery to anything remotely of that a NFL player deals with. Agree, incredibly sad and stupid for him to make that comparison. Anyone that suggests he isn't that far off flunked history or is willfully ignoring it.
Hmm. Seems like if you actually read his quote he says right there for you that the owners "see you as a piece of property." Which, again, given that we just had an owner himself say the players were "inmates," that, to me, isn't that far off.
I know you're a superior human being on all levels than me, especially your superior intelligence on...well, everything, as you are to everyone you've ever come across, and I'm sorry you have been so prosecuted all your live as an entitled white male, but there are issues out there that people other than rich white males like yourself face. Tough pill to swallow, I know, you've had it really, really rough as a rich white male. But it's true.
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It's a good thing the players aren't saying stupid things, like playing for million paychecks is the same thing as slavery. Oh wait
http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/19/michael-bennett-thinks-being-a-millionaire-nfl-player-is-similar-to-slavery/
FFS - don't ruin this thread too. this rebuttal to your POV should be all any MU grad needs..
http://dailycaller.com/about-us/ (http://dailycaller.com/about-us/)
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Other great posts: The one showing that NFL ratings are not going down as much as TV prime-time ratings overall; and, especially, the one showing that the VAST majority of Americans disapproved of Trump's inane and ridiculous handling of the NFL protests.
Vast majority? Can you define vast for us all? You still believe in polls that tie to this President? I don't because they have been proven wrong so many times. I hate the man, but he keeps surviving. What most polls showed is they disapproved of his comments and also the protests, but polls with him are usually out of whack.
TV Ratings vs Prime Time TV ratings, care to explain why attendance and no-shows are so impacted this year? Just a coincidence?
Just a coincidence that Direct TV was in the Wall Street Journal having to refund so many customers?
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Vast ......... customers?
Scoopers: you're not going to be 'that guy' and continue to ruin threads by being argumentative, elitist, antagonistic, or a jerk are you?
Chicos: absolutely not! I understand moderation.
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also Chicos: here's a bunch of alt-right stuff and i'm convinced i'm not the one who started this.
Mia Culpa on perpetuating this.........my Cleveland Brown wife and I (Apple Valley/Burnsville) had a great morning with a HUGE buffet where: a) our kids had no idea who to root for, b) Vikings shortcomings were exposed in the first half, c) they righted the ship and are 6-2, and d) were able to do the lawn and catch 3 kids games. i say bring on an NFL team in Europe
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Scoopers: you're not going to be 'that guy' and continue to ruin threads by being argumentative, elitist, antagonistic, or a jerk are you?
Chicos: absolutely not! I understand moderation.
....
....
....
also Chicos: here's a bunch of alt-right stuff and i'm convinced i'm not the one who started this.
Naw man, skip the first step and the stuff about moderation. It was about not wanting to be on Scoop because the love of his life, a different person than his wife, opened his eyes up to more important things in life.
And like 4 months later he was back to being chicos, best buds with hoopaloop.
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I am just glad that he has recovered enough to be back to normal. Not that chastened guy who had figured out what really matters in life.
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Bears are gonna have many years of regret for screwing up the QB pick in the draft.
And Houston really lucked out.
If Watson was on this Bears team, with this coaching staff, he wouldn't be doing what he's doing in Houston. Watson is/was way further along than Trubisky.
The team that should really regret passing on Watson? Jacksonville.
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If Watson was on this Bears team, with this coaching staff, he wouldn't be doing what he's doing in Houston. Watson is/was way further along than Trubisky.
The team that should really regret passing on Watson? Jacksonville.
Also, add in the receivers Watson has to work with compared to the walkons in Chicago
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Part of the reason I got on the Jags & Panthers for taking RB's in the top 10 was case in point with the Jags.
With the defense they have, they hypothetically could have taken Watson at 4 and Kareem Hunt with their third round pick. Would both Watson & Hunt be as good as they are in JAX instead of their current teams? Maybe, maybe not, but we'd probably be talking about JAX being one of the most interesting teams in football right now.
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Naw man, skip the first step and the stuff about moderation. It was about not wanting to be on Scoop because the love of his life, a different person than his wife, opened his eyes up to more important things in life.
And like 4 months later he was back to being chicos, best buds with hoopaloop.
I don't know about you, wades, but I'm still dabbing my eyes as I recall that heartfelt mea culpa Banny McBannerson delivered the first time he pretended to be somebody other than chicos so could skirt his ban.
Also, isn't it amusing that a guy who brings up polls several times a week so casually disavows any polls he doesn't like?
Oh, and I have to smile every time Banny says he hates a president whose words and actions so often mirror his own.
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I am just glad that he has recovered enough to be back to normal. Not that chastened guy who had figured out what really matters in life.
That was really uncalled for tower-Chico’s experienced a very tragic loss, tried to make amends to whoever was offended by him. For you to re-open that very personal wound was cruel to say the least. Your sarcasm, as it comes across here, hit me right in the chest. I guess I expected a little more from you, but not as much from our bloke overseas.
For you guys to continue to accuse Chico’s of being combativly argumentative in a negative way is dishonest. The bottom line is he provides a viewpoint many of you disagree with-fine, but leave out the character assinations please and just move on or put him on ignore. He has provided some great references to the topics discussed here and some alternative perspectives at that.
Ok, now unleash the, but you said...context people, context.
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I'm a big Zach Miller fan. Suffered a horrific looking injury today while attempting to complete a 1 handed TD catch. (Terrible review). May have been the worst overturn since Megatron. Feel awful for Miller. He was also a security blanket for Trubisky
The Megatron call was brutal but at least you knew why they called what they did. The call on Miller's play was brutal but no one can even figure out how they could have called that pass incomplete. There was absolutely nothing there to overturn that call.
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The Megatron call was brutal but at least you knew why they called what they did. The call on Miller's play was brutal but no one can even figure out how they could have called that pass incomplete. There was absolutely nothing there to overturn that call.
Exactly right. 100% visual evidence to overturn that?
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Part of the reason I got on the Jags & Panthers for taking RB's in the top 10 was case in point with the Jags.
I allow that you very well might be right about taking RBs so high. McCaffrey has been a good pass-catcher out of the backfield for the Panthers but his overall impact on the offense has been negligible. And yes, they very well might have been able to get somebody as good later.
IIRC, the disagreement that we had was that you said teams wouldn't take RBs that high.
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I allow that you very well might be right about taking RBs so high. McCaffrey has been a good pass-catcher out of the backfield for the Panthers but his overall impact on the offense has been negligible. And yes, they very well might have been able to get somebody as good later.
IIRC, the disagreement that we had was that you said teams wouldn't take RBs that high.
Yes, I was wrong. I both thought they shouldn't take them that high, and didn't think they would. I just look at the Jags and think if they had a good QB, they'd be so close. Fournette has been great, but I can't see Bortles winning a game in January.
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That was really uncalled for tower-Chico’s experienced a very tragic loss, tried to make amends to whoever was offended by him. For you to re-open that very personal wound was cruel to say the least. Your sarcasm, as it comes across here, hit me right in the chest. I guess I expected a little more from you, but not as much from our bloke overseas.
For you guys to continue to accuse Chico’s of being combativly argumentative in a negative way is dishonest. The bottom line is he provides a viewpoint many of you disagree with-fine, but leave out the character assinations please and just move on or put him on ignore. He has provided some great references to the topics discussed here and some alternative perspectives at that.
Ok, now unleash the, but you said...context people, context.
Thank you. I believed his contrition at the time. And I still believe he meant it. That he has now returned to his previous ways is a sign of healing.
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Thank you. I believed his contrition at the time. And I still believe he meant it. That he has now returned to his previous ways is a sign of healing.
Ok, I realize this is way off topic but the subject of Chico’s continues to come up, but to resurrect his moment, a very very emotional one at that, is like going for the jugular; it just takes the wind out of ya.
It’ll be interesting to watch how the nfl rules on that bears touchdown pass. Combine that one with Detroit’s a week or so ago and it might be time to check some bank records ;D
Now, back to Chico’s, with the exception of him returning under other guises despite being banned is really a tribute to this blog and how it could be. It really is a great venue of mostly MU peeps. Compared to most, we do try to police each other and reign it in. The way I see it is so many people couldn’t handle Chico’s opposition counterpoints, especially if it veered political. He is not repub or dem, he is honestly for the truth. But when that goes against some here, the pack comes out and tries to back him(as well as others) into a corner. Well, what do most do in this instance? They fight back. Then the vitriol starts flying and it’s usually the guy throwing the second punch who gets nailed. As for the “ban hammer” I had a hard time with that as there have been others who by the same standards should have had the same. Chico’s didnt get personal to the point of throwing obscenities at others like one under paid attorney whose posts were the most cringe-worthy
There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with others here, but so many times it gets personal. Much of that is a carry-over from the politics section. Like a golfer, we must have short memories in order to converse here or don’t converse at all. If one were to put their bias blinders on, Chico’s post, although provocative, represented a nice opposition to others and that is what we want on a healthy board even though many of us, myself included, have veered toward the personal on occasion. As long as that is recognized and corrected, no harm, no foul Eyn’er?
Ya have to admit however that 4/5 posts have been very informative from his perspective to say the least. Not only have his posts been tame, but he has backed off many challenges to his opinions and his person. I do think we can all be the good people that MU espoused, while exhibiting some push back without getting personal. Show me any other blog that can be half as civil as this one
Sorry-I just saw this getting a little out of hand, now back to our regularly scheduled shows
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RS, I disagree with your assessment of causality. These attitudes did not form in a vacuum. There is a reason for the bannings. Personal attacks. There was a reason he felt he needed to apologize during his heartbreak. There is a common, unifying theme and only a small part of it is politics.
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Ok, I realize this is way off topic but the subject of Chico’s continues to come up, but to resurrect his moment, a very very emotional one at that, is like going for the jugular; it just takes the wind out of ya.
It’ll be interesting to watch how the nfl rules on that bears touchdown pass. Combine that one with Detroit’s a week or so ago and it might be time to check some bank records ;D
Now, back to Chico’s, with the exception of him returning under other guises despite being banned is really a tribute to this blog and how it could be. It really is a great venue of mostly MU peeps. Compared to most, we do try to police each other and reign it in. The way I see it is so many people couldn’t handle Chico’s opposition counterpoints, especially if it veered political. He is not repub or dem, he is honestly for the truth. But when that goes against some here, the pack comes out and tries to back him(as well as others) into a corner. Well, what do most do in this instance? They fight back. Then the vitriol starts flying and it’s usually the guy throwing the second punch who gets nailed. As for the “ban hammer” I had a hard time with that as there have been others who by the same standards should have had the same. Chico’s didnt get personal to the point of throwing obscenities at others like one under paid attorney whose posts were the most cringe-worthy
There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with others here, but so many times it gets personal. Much of that is a carry-over from the politics section. Like a golfer, we must have short memories in order to converse here or don’t converse at all. If one were to put their bias blinders on, Chico’s post, although provocative, represented a nice opposition to others and that is what we want on a healthy board even though many of us, myself included, have veered toward the personal on occasion. As long as that is recognized and corrected, no harm, no foul Eyn’er?
Ya have to admit however that 4/5 posts have been very informative from his perspective to say the least. Not only have his posts been tame, but he has backed off many challenges to his opinions and his person. I do think we can all be the good people that MU espoused, while exhibiting some push back without getting personal. Show me any other blog that can be half as civil as this one
Sorry-I just saw this getting a little out of hand, now back to our regularly scheduled shows
GMAFB.
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Has chicoloops' 16th personality suddenly been outed here or...?
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Has chicoloops' 16th personality suddenly been outed here or...?
Certainly seems that way
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RS is not one of CBB's aliases. He is a facebook friend.
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In actual football related discussion, the Lion's showed themselves to be pretenders last night. Should have run a QB sneak from the one. Nearly 500 yards in total offense, 15 points.
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In actual football related discussion, the Lion's showed themselves to be pretenders last night. Should have run a QB sneak from the one. Nearly 500 yards if total offense, 15 points.
Tho Prater is the only thing holding my fantasy team together after losing Rodgers, so take solace in that :)
A tangent, I am so mad about how craptacular the NFC North is. The 6-2 Vikings have to be the most garbage 6-2 ever. A health Rodgers and the division would have been wrapped up by the end of November. Terrible.
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In actual football related discussion, the Lion's showed themselves to be pretenders last night. Should have run a QB sneak from the one. Nearly 500 yards in total offense, 15 points.
Or how about the draw on 3rd and goal from about the 4-5. Just baffling stuff in the Red Zone from them.
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Ok, I realize this is way off topic but the subject of Chico’s continues to come up, but to resurrect his moment, a very very emotional one at that, is like going for the jugular; it just takes the wind out of ya.
It’ll be interesting to watch how the nfl rules on that bears touchdown pass. Combine that one with Detroit’s a week or so ago and it might be time to check some bank records ;D
Now, back to Chico’s, with the exception of him returning under other guises despite being banned is really a tribute to this blog and how it could be. It really is a great venue of mostly MU peeps. Compared to most, we do try to police each other and reign it in. The way I see it is so many people couldn’t handle Chico’s opposition counterpoints, especially if it veered political. He is not repub or dem, he is honestly for the truth. But when that goes against some here, the pack comes out and tries to back him(as well as others) into a corner. Well, what do most do in this instance? They fight back. Then the vitriol starts flying and it’s usually the guy throwing the second punch who gets nailed. As for the “ban hammer” I had a hard time with that as there have been others who by the same standards should have had the same. Chico’s didnt get personal to the point of throwing obscenities at others like one under paid attorney whose posts were the most cringe-worthy
There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with others here, but so many times it gets personal. Much of that is a carry-over from the politics section. Like a golfer, we must have short memories in order to converse here or don’t converse at all. If one were to put their bias blinders on, Chico’s post, although provocative, represented a nice opposition to others and that is what we want on a healthy board even though many of us, myself included, have veered toward the personal on occasion. As long as that is recognized and corrected, no harm, no foul Eyn’er?
Ya have to admit however that 4/5 posts have been very informative from his perspective to say the least. Not only have his posts been tame, but he has backed off many challenges to his opinions and his person. I do think we can all be the good people that MU espoused, while exhibiting some push back without getting personal. Show me any other blog that can be half as civil as this one
Sorry-I just saw this getting a little out of hand, now back to our regularly scheduled shows
All I'll say is that Banny is very lucky to have a friend like you. Everybody needs one of 'em.
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Jimmy G from Pats to niners for a 2nd round pick. Niners didn't think they'd get a good QB at top of first round?
Pats have no other QBs on roster. I hope they sign Kap. That would be a total belicheck move
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Kapernick to da Patriots. Oh da irony, ai na?
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Jimmy G from Pats to niners for a 2nd round pick. Niners didn't think they'd get a good QB at top of first round?
Pats have no other QBs on roster. I hope they sign Kap. That would be a total belicheck move
With baseball season being over for most, Tebow may be available to finish the year.
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Word is that Niners are gonna release Hoyer and the Pats will then sign him to be Brady's backup.
Belichick did take a flyer on Tebow and also got Randy Moss, so he's not afraid of either the circus or controversy. But Belichick and Kraft are both big Trump supporters, so I'd guess Kaep was never even considered.
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Dammit Dolphins. I don't think Ajayi would be the difference between the playoffs and not again, but I just don't see the upside of trading him for a 4th rounder today. Could have gotten that for him in the offseason, too. Gase must think its addition by subtraction, but I don't see how the offense gets any better without him, and with Landry in the final year of his deal, its kind of a kick in the nuts if they trade Ajayi, miss the playoffs, and then lose Landry to FA without getting anything for him.
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Pereira and Blandino have both stated that had Zach Miller's non-catch been ruled incomplete on the field, they would have overturned it to be a completion/TD based on the replays. That's a problem.
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MU82, is this one of underdogs you speak of? The everyday Joe that can't get ahead? His take on NFL. http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/10/fox-reporter-peter-schrager-kicked-out-cab-nfl-anthem-protests-rating-indianapolis
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MU82, is this one of underdogs you speak of? The everyday Joe that can't get ahead? His take on NFL. http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/10/fox-reporter-peter-schrager-kicked-out-cab-nfl-anthem-protests-rating-indianapolis
OMG! Another chicas re-iteration.
Desperation is the 1st word that comes to mind.
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An awful NFL season gets worse with Watson tearing his ACL.
The number of mega stars out for the year is uncanny.
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An awful NFL season gets worse with Watson tearing his ACL.
The number of mega stars out for the year is uncanny.
Texans owner has signed off on a kapernick workout. Please, please, please.
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An awful NFL season gets worse with Watson tearing his ACL.
The number of mega stars out for the year is uncanny.
Houston didnt even get to our Astros parade before the balloon pops on the ACL loss of Watson....Durn the twists of luck.
Even if you are not a fan of the teams.... losing the likes of Rodgers and Watson diminishes the enjoyment of watching great QB play, the lynch pin of the NFL game
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Houston didnt even get to our Astros parade before the balloon pops on the ACL loss of Watson....Durn the twists of luck.
Even if you are not a fan of the teams.... losing the likes of Rodgers and Watson diminishes the enjoyment of watching great QB play, the lynch pin of the NFL game
Rodgers, Luck, Tannehill, Watson, Cook, Odell, Watt, Palmer, David Johnson, etc
Lots of missing stars this year so far
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Texans owner has signed off on a kapernick workout. Please, please, please.
they haven't finished scouring the lingerie league though?? :)
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Rodgers, Luck, Tannehill, Watson, Cook, Odell, Watt, Palmer, David Johnson, etc
Lots of missing stars this year so far
The question is: do you want good teams that win? or stars that perform well? Basically it's fantasy team vs. team performance.
There are plenty of teams that have lost their star QB/RB/WR/etc and continued to win.
Depending on why you watch the game (because it is a pure sport or because it is entertainment) and how a team plays (player vs system based) determines how the loss of specific personnel impacts your viewership/team performance.
I view it as pure colosseum entertainment and my team of choice (Vike's) are currently system based and, therefore, find the games entertaining. If the Vikings go back to a player based system i'll go back to not being entertained.
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Mea cults on my preseason Jets thoughts. I know there's bad teams, but give Todd Bowles tons of credit. Their organization openly tried to tank, their roster was/is dreadful, and they've already won 4 games.
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The question is: do you want good teams that win? or stars that perform well? Basically it's fantasy team vs. team performance.
There are plenty of teams that have lost their star QB/RB/WR/etc and continued to win.
Depending on why you watch the game (because it is a pure sport or because it is entertainment) and how a team plays (player vs system based) determines how the loss of specific personnel impacts your viewership/team performance.
I view it as pure colosseum entertainment and my team of choice (Vike's) are currently system based and, therefore, find the games entertaining. If the Vikings go back to a player based system i'll go back to not being entertained.
You want to see good football. Subbing out Watson for Tom Savage means more bad football.
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Mea cults on my preseason Jets thoughts. I know there's bad teams, but give Todd Bowles tons of credit. Their organization openly tried to tank, their roster was/is dreadful, and they've already won 4 games.
Shouldn't it be the opposite? He's hurting the long term future of the team to pick up meaningless wins. He also did nothing with more talented rosters, but now he's picking up wins with guys who have everything to prove. Id be less than pleased if I was a Jets fan. At least the Bears refusal to tank is highlighting a potential franchise QB and some exciting young skill position players/vastly improved D. With the exception of Robby Anderson who has been electric, they are doing it with a 40 year old QB, an over the hill RB, and a thoroughly mediocre defense who thankfully has forced a lot of TOs. They are the Bulls of a few years ago.
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Shouldn't it be the opposite? He's hurting the long term future of the team to pick up meaningless wins. He also did nothing with more talented rosters, but now he's picking up wins with guys who have everything to prove. Id be less than pleased if I was a Jets fan. At least the Bears refusal to tank is highlighting a potential franchise QB and some exciting young skill position players/vastly improved D. With the exception of Robby Anderson who has been electric, they are doing it with a 40 year old QB, an over the hill RB, and a thoroughly mediocre defense who thankfully has forced a lot of TOs. They are the Bulls of a few years ago.
Jets fan here. Have to disagree. There's no guarantee that tanking gets you Darnold, Rosen, or the guy from Wyoming. They also are not "can't miss" prospects. I'd rather not tank for the #1 unless it's as close to a guarantee as possible. QBs can be found at all levels of the draft (D. Watson - 12th, Rodgers - 25?, Prescott - 4th round?, R. Wilson - 3rd?, Brady - 6th?, etc.). There's no harm in winning some games, seeing if John Morton can excel as an offensive coordinator and letting the young guys develop (Robby A., Darron Lee, Jamal Adams, Leonard Williams, Marcus Maye, etc.)
Over the hill RB - do you mean Forte? Sure, but Powell is 27 I believe and Elijah McGuire has been good also. They certain have some work to do (quarterback, cornerback, offensive line, OLB) but I, for one, am not disappointed that they've won 4 games. Frankly they should be at least 5-4 (Miami loss) and could have beaten New England as well. That's disappointing.
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Jets fan here. Have to disagree. There's no guarantee that tanking gets you Darnold, Rosen, or the guy from Wyoming. They also are not "can't miss" prospects. I'd rather not tank for the #1 unless it's as close to a guarantee as possible. QBs can be found at all levels of the draft (D. Watson - 12th, Rodgers - 25?, Prescott - 4th round?, R. Wilson - 3rd?, Brady - 6th?, etc.). There's no harm in winning some games, seeing if John Morton can excel as an offensive coordinator and letting the young guys develop (Robby A., Darron Lee, Jamal Adams, Leonard Williams, Marcus Maye, etc.)
Over the hill RB - do you mean Forte? Sure, but Powell is 27 I believe and Elijah McGuire has been good also. They certain have some work to do (quarterback, cornerback, offensive line, OLB) but I, for one, am not disappointed that they've won 4 games. Frankly they should be at least 5-4 (Miami loss) and could have beaten New England as well. That's disappointing.
From a Jets fan, thats good to hear, cause the few Jets fans I know aren't super thrilled. Not losing every game, but when you're expecting to be pretty good like last year and disappoint. You go into this year ready to tank and rebuild and you're thoroughly average. Idk, to each's own.
To be fair, that QB logic is pretty flawed. Its like expecting to find success betting big CFB underdogs cause Liberty beat Baylor this year. If you look at the Pro Bowl QBs from the last 4-5 years. Only a couple were drafted outside of the first round and first 5-7 picks of the second. Prescott, Russell Wilson, Cousins, and Romo. Granted, there aren't "sure things" in the first 10-12 picks, but your odds are a LOT better than taking later round fliers. When it comes to playing young guys, I'm shocked how fast they bailed on Hackenberg. Granted he never looked great, but thats a second round pick who hasn't taken a snap in a regular season game, thats nuts.
If you think Bowles is the guy and you're fine waiting for awhile, more power to you. I just find rooting for a middling team without a clear strategy to be frustrating, as has been the Bears for awhile up till this year.
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From a Jets fan, thats good to hear, cause the few Jets fans I know aren't super thrilled. Not losing every game, but when you're expecting to be pretty good like last year and disappoint. You go into this year ready to tank and rebuild and you're thoroughly average. Idk, to each's own.
To be fair, that QB logic is pretty flawed. Its like expecting to find success betting big CFB underdogs cause Liberty beat Baylor this year. If you look at the Pro Bowl QBs from the last 4-5 years. Only a couple were drafted outside of the first round and first 5-7 picks of the second. Prescott, Russell Wilson, Cousins, and Romo. Granted, there aren't "sure things" in the first 10-12 picks, but your odds are a LOT better than taking later round fliers. When it comes to playing young guys, I'm shocked how fast they bailed on Hackenberg. Granted he never looked great, but thats a second round pick who hasn't taken a snap in a regular season game, thats nuts.
If you think Bowles is the guy and you're fine waiting for awhile, more power to you. I just find rooting for a middling team without a clear strategy to be frustrating, as has been the Bears for awhile up till this year.
Don't disagree that they're middling, and didn't mean to indicate that the Jets should wait until mid-rounds to address QB situation. Only that tanking for #1 to get Darnold could disappoint. The jets will likely only win two more games (check their schedule) which will likely mean a top ten pick still. Could always trade up if they identify "their" guy. And yes, Hackenberg is a bust.
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ya gotta respect the man vin scully and his observations re: NFL. i'll bet he's not buying papa johns either ;)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2017/11/05/vin-scully-i-never-watch-another-nfl-game/833765001/
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ya gotta respect the man vin scully and his observations re: NFL. i'll bet he's not buying papa johns either ;)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2017/11/05/vin-scully-i-never-watch-another-nfl-game/833765001/
I do not respect his opinions regarding the NFL.
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I do not respect his opinions regarding the NFL.
He was a former NFL announcer for years, dear friend of Jackie Robinson and family. He knows more about athletes than 99.9% of America, including the battles of race. His opinion matters as much as yours. What is bad for the NFL is if Vin Skully is saying this, not good. Watching all those in the crowd cheer his response in very liberal California, also not good for the NFL.
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Godell should bee strung up bye his curly ques. Fooked dis up, major, from da get go, hey?
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He was a former NFL announcer for years, dear friend of Jackie Robinson and family. He knows more about athletes than 99.9% of America, including the battles of race. His opinion matters as much as yours. What is bad for the NFL is if Vin Skully is saying this, not good. Watching all those in the crowd cheer his response in very liberal California, also not good for the NFL.
I don't really care about his background. I do not respect his opinion.
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whatever dallas coaches said at halftime after hills run for remarkable TD-must have worked, enn'a?
basically shut the chiefs down
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I do not respect his opinions regarding the NFL.
just not that one, eyn'er? backgrounds should matter for something. for example-i respect the hell of john mccains background but hate his politics
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just not that one, eyn'er? backgrounds should matter for something. for example-i respect the hell of john mccains background but hate his politics
I don't care what his background is. I don't respect his opinion on this matter.
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I don't care what his background is. I don't respect his opinion on this matter.
That’s fair and you are entitled to your opinion and I will respect that...HOWEVER, the point here is vin scully is verifying the real affects and effects of the problems the NFL is trying to navigate right now, albeit, unsuccessfully so far. He is a well respected microcosm of probably more than 50% of the NFL fans. He is basically saying what “the other side” is trying so hard to deny, often times described otherwise as the pink elephant in the room or as how Austin powers tried so valiantly to deny, “that’s not mine” even upon revelation of the book in his possession “Swedish made ***** enlarger pumps and me” ;D ;)
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Godell should bee strung up bye his curly ques. Fooked dis up, major, from da get go, hey?
This wasn't an issue until the Commander in Tweet couldn't help himself and got out of his lane. Then staged a publicity stunt that cost hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars out of sheer pettiness. He's a POS that is the real issue here.
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That’s fair and you are entitled to your opinion and I will respect that...HOWEVER, the point here is vin scully is verifying the real affects and effects of the problems the NFL is trying to navigate right now, albeit, unsuccessfully so far. He is a well respected microcosm of probably more than 50% of the NFL fans. He is basically saying what “the other side” is trying so hard to deny, often times described otherwise as the pink elephant in the room or as how Austin powers tried so valiantly to deny, “that’s not mine” even upon revelation of the book in his possession “Swedish made ***** enlarger pumps and me” ;D ;)
What is the other side trying to deny? The only think I am denying is that the protests are the sole, or even the largest reason for the dip in ratings. I'm sure there are people who are refusing to watch the NFL because of the protests. I really don't care.
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Watts dis protest ‘bout again anyway, hey?
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The NFL is in a catch 22. Do nothing about the protests and some people will continue to be upset. Stop the protests and all they'll do is upset a different group of people.
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This wasn't an issue until the Commander in Tweet couldn't help himself and got out of his lane. Then staged a publicity stunt that cost hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars out of sheer pettiness. He's a POS that is the real issue here.
This.
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Watts dis protest ‘bout again anyway, hey?
i guess it's just part of the game, enn'a enn'a?
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Watts dis protest ‘bout again anyway, hey?
It used to be people in the spotlight trying to call attention to the issues of racism and police brutality in this country. Now it's become about the POTUS calling players SOBs, millionaire athletes disrespecting veterans and an owner's poor choice of idioms being misconstrued. In other words, it started off with an important message and has devolved into basically a big, controversial mess of nothing, which is very unfortunate.
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This wasn't an issue until the Commander in Tweet couldn't help himself and got out of his lane. Then staged a publicity stunt that cost hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars out of sheer pettiness. He's a POS that is the real issue here.
Knot so fast, bro. Ya got rules in yo workplace? Great, wee all due. Now, if you don’t like dem rules, ya can ether knot take the job, quit, or intentionally disobey said rules. Ya got the freedom ta due whatever yo pee pickin’ heart desires. However, der are consequences four one’s actions. Kaperdick et al can wanna exorcise der America rights under the Constitution. Perfect baby, now deel wit the result of yo actions and stfu, ai na?
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It used to be people in the spotlight trying to call attention to the issues of racism and police brutality in this country. Now it's become about the POTUS calling players SOBs, millionaire athletes disrespecting veterans and an owner's poor choice of idioms being misconstrued. In other words, it started off with an important message and has devolved into basically a big, controversial mess of nothing, which is very unfortunate.
Please provide links showing evidence of millionaire athletes disrespecting veterans.
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Please provide links showing evidence of millionaire athletes disrespecting veterans.
That's what the perception has become. The original message of the protests has been completely lost.
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That's what the perception has become. The original message of the protests has been completely lost.
OK, MM ... I obviously misconstrued your earlier post. I thought you were ripping on athletes for disrespecting veterans; from my reading, just about all of them have gone out of their way to say how much they respect veterans.
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Knot so fast, bro. Ya got rules in yo workplace? Great, wee all due. Now, if you don’t like dem rules, ya can ether knot take the job, quit, or intentionally disobey said rules. Ya got the freedom ta due whatever yo pee pickin’ heart desires. However, der are consequences four one’s actions. Kaperdick et al can wanna exorcise der America rights under the Constitution. Perfect baby, now deel wit the result of yo actions and stfu, ai na?
Wait, so are you saying that there are rules in the USA that minorities are allowed to be victims of police brutality? I'm really confused here.
Yes, my workplace has rules. Just like the NFL has rules. Neither my workplace nor the NFL say that one must stand for the playing of the National Anthem. Nor do either have rules saying police brutality is okay if it's directed at minorities or anything that these players are protesting. So I'm not sure what you're saying here...
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Knot so fast, bro. Ya got rules in yo workplace? Great, wee all due. Now, if you don’t like dem rules, ya can ether knot take the job, quit, or intentionally disobey said rules. Ya got the freedom ta due whatever yo pee pickin’ heart desires. However, der are consequences four one’s actions. Kaperdick et al can wanna exorcise der America rights under the Constitution. Perfect baby, now deel wit the result of yo actions and stfu, ai na?
Vry smrt person not understand meening of collushun, ai na?
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All contracts for professional athletes have a “code of conduct” clause. Under that broad veil is where embarassing the team or conduct unbecoming of a professional athlete would fall. Had Roger nipped this at the very onset, it is a non-story.
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All contracts for professional athletes have a “code of conduct” clause. Under that broad veil is where embarassing the team or conduct unbecoming of a professional athlete would fall. Had Roger nipped this at the very onset, it is a non-story.
There is no such clause in NFL contracts. It is subject to the CBA between the league and the union.
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All contracts for professional athletes have a “code of conduct” clause. Under that broad veil is where embarassing the team or conduct unbecoming of a professional athlete would fall. Had Roger nipped this at the very onset, it is a non-story.
Wouldn't those be between the team and the athlete, taking Roger out of the equation?
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All contracts for professional athletes have a “code of conduct” clause. Under that broad veil is where embarassing the team or conduct unbecoming of a professional athlete would fall. Had Roger nipped this at the very onset, it is a non-story.
NFL rosters include guys who've beaten wives and girlfriends, been caught driving drunk, been arrested for assaulting police officers, convicted of possessing illegal drugs, found to be using performance-enhancing drugs and more.
And yet the thing you find "conduct unbecoming of a professional athlete" is kneeling?
What interesting priorities you have.
Oh, I mean .. Dat's sum intersting pry-orotees youse got, ai na?
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The clause is present and nowhere did I say I condone all the other acts of supidity.
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There is no "Code of Conduct" clause in an NFL contract. Here is the template:
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1573683/000104746913009713/a2216998zex-10_3.htm
There are statements within clauses like:
"He agrees to give his best efforts and loyalty to the Club, and to conduct himself on and off the field with appropriate recognition of the fact that the success of professional football depends largely on public respect for and approval of those associated with the game."
and
"...or if Player has engaged in personal conduct reasonably judged by Club to adversely affect or reflect on Club, then Club may terminate this contract."
No team is going to use that type of language to enforce something that isn't actually a rule.
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NFL rosters include guys who've beaten wives and girlfriends, been caught driving drunk, been arrested for assaulting police officers, convicted of possessing illegal drugs, found to be using performance-enhancing drugs and more.
And yet the thing you find "conduct unbecoming of a professional athlete" is kneeling?
What interesting priorities you have.
Oh, I mean .. Dat's sum intersting pry-orotees youse got, ai na?
Love this post.
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NFL rosters include guys who've beaten wives and girlfriends, been caught driving drunk, been arrested for assaulting police officers, convicted of possessing illegal drugs, found to be using performance-enhancing drugs and more.
And yet the thing you find "conduct unbecoming of a professional athlete" is kneeling?
What interesting priorities you have.
Oh, I mean .. Dat's sum intersting pry-orotees youse got, ai na?
He's not wrong
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How did AJ Green not get suspended?
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4-12?
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Furst thin’ we’ve agreed on. Hundley and da rest suck ass, ai na?
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NFL rosters include guys who've beaten wives and girlfriends, been caught driving drunk, been arrested for assaulting police officers, convicted of possessing illegal drugs, found to be using performance-enhancing drugs and more.
And yet the thing you find "conduct unbecoming of a professional athlete" is kneeling?
What interesting priorities you have.
Oh, I mean .. Dat's sum intersting pry-orotees youse got, ai na?
Hell, Jerry Jones' roster has included most of those types since he's owned the Cowboys, including his star tailback this year. But it's those dreaded anthem-kneelers he keeps threatening to bench.
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Furst thin’ we’ve agreed on. Hundley and da rest suck ass, ai na?
Probably ever :)
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I do not respect his opinions regarding the NFL.
I do not agree with him on the issue but I respect his opinion.
I agree with you on the issue, but I don't respect your opinion regarding his opinion.
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It is still the Lion's. They can find a way to lose it. 4-12 for the Packers? No. Huntley will get comfortable. 9-7 is still possible. Tricky, but possible.
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It is still the Lion's. They can find a way to lose it. 4-12 for the Packers? No. Huntley will get comfortable. 9-7 is still possible. Tricky, but possible.
There is 0 chance the Packers get 7 wins with Hundley under center the rest of the season, let alone 9. Best case is 2 more wins for the Pack.
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I am seeing tools from Hundley. Needs line help.
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I am seeing tools from Hundley. Needs line help.
That's a pretty sad comment. It's the first time the entire line has been intact all year.
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Maybe it is happy feet. He is getting to the bottom of his drop and if the ball is still in his hands, he starts scrambling.
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Hundley just isn’t good. He may grow to become serviceable. That’s about it.
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Need a defense that can stop anyone. Haven’t had that in a long time.
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Hundley just isn’t good. He may grow to become serviceable. That’s about it.
Can’t even see that.
This team with Rodgers is around 13-3 (courtesy of a horrible schedule).
With an average starting QB (say Dalton, Flacco, Manning) they’re a 10-6 type team that wins the North and loses in the Divisional or Wild Card round.
With Hundley starting all year they’re fighting for the first overall pick with the 9ers and Brownies.
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Need a defense that can stop anyone. Haven’t had that in a long time.
The defense isn’t good. But it’s not awful. When your offense can’t keep you on the sidelines for more than 2 minutes you’re going to give up yards and points. Just is what it is.
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The defense isn’t good. But it’s not awful. When your offense can’t keep you on the sidelines for more than 2 minutes you’re going to give up yards and points. Just is what it is.
The D was brutal when Rodgers was healthy. Now hoping Capers gets fired and we get a top 5 pick.
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The D was brutal when Rodgers was healthy. Now hoping Capers gets fired and we get a top 5 pick.
Our defense has not played terribly these last 3 weeks. It is not elite; it is not good. But it is not the issue with this team right now.
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That game against the Bears is gonna be a something on Sunday.
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The comeback/collapse begins.
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This defense can’t create a turnover or even a big play. It’s not good.
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Our defense has not played terribly these last 3 weeks. It is not elite; it is not good. But it is not the issue with this team right now.
I guess you're right ;D
They have forced the Lions to punt zero times tonight. Defenses don't get worse than that.
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Screen pass against the blitz was the back breaker.
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That game against the Bears is gonna be a something on Sunday.
Won't even be close. It will be the first time Trubisky will look like an NFL QB.
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That game against the Bears is gonna be a something on Sunday.
The loser of that game will be the real winner.
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The dude has been coordinator since 2009, longest active tenure in the NFL by 3 Years. Time after time we get smoked out of the playoffs. Thompson doesn’t give him any talent but there’s barely any development. He must have something on McCarthy.
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The dude has been coordinator since 2009, longest active tenure in the NFL by 3 Years. Time after time we get smoked out of the playoffs. Thompson doesn’t give him any talent but there’s barely any development. He must have something on McCarthy.
C'mon man. His boys held the Lions to 400+ yards.
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The dude has been coordinator since 2009, longest active tenure in the NFL by 3 Years. Time after time we get smoked out of the playoffs. Thompson doesn’t give him any talent but there’s barely any development. He must have something on McCarthy.
TT has drafted plenty of defensive talent.
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Kaepernick would have won that game
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They have forced the Lions to punt zero times tonight. Defenses don't get worse than that.
Zero punts and only one forced TO. Wow.
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Aaron’s should demand $50 mill/season. Dis team ain’t stink and he’s gott’em bye da curly cues, ai na?
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I saw two teams last night that lack playmakers on defense, lack running games, lack great offensive lines. One still has their starting quarterback. If the positions were reversed, and AR played and the Lions were going with Jake Rudock at quarterback, the beatdown would have gone the other way and been worse.
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TT has drafted plenty of defensive talent.
But how talented is it?
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Dom Capers is the DC equivalent of Andy Dalton. He's good enough to get you to the playoffs but he's not carrying you anywhere once you get there. He's too good to simply get rid of because there are A LOT worse options out there but he obviously has his ceiling.
By the way, the Bears are favored over GB for the first time in nearly a decade. In that game, the Bears won 20-17 while totaling just 142 yards of offense. A sign of things to come this Sunday? ;)
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I think the Packers should part ways with Ted Thompson and seek the next solution as GM. John Dorsey would be my choice. Then let the new GM make decisions about the coaching staff.
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Please provide links showing evidence of millionaire athletes disrespecting veterans.
Why don't you ask the veterans that feel disrespected. That's all that matters. You can find many vets that support the protests and many that say it is disrespectful. It all comes down to how each individual feels, that's what ultimately matters in this.
The players can say it isn't about the flag (even though Kapaernick said he would not respect the flag or country, his words) and isn't about the military, but if some in the military think it is, then it is for them. For others in the military, it isn't an issue.
For people like myself, apparently Vin Scully, and according to the polls you like to mention the majority are with me when asked if we should stand for the anthem and flag. That it is disrespectful not to is our belief. For the same reason it is disrespectful to shout during a moment of silence. If the NFL chooses to allow actions that disrespect flag and country, then we boycott NFL and sponsors.
Please understand that doesn't mean I, or the military, or Vin Scully do not believe players have the right to do what they are doing. We just feel the NFL is wrong in how they approached this and we vote with our remote control and purchasing power.
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I think the Packers should part ways with Ted Thompson and seek the next solution as GM. John Dorsey would be my choice. Then let the new GM make decisions about the coaching staff.
Man, I’ve agree with Jock and Grumpy 2 daze in a row. Watts wrong here, hey?
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This wasn't an issue until the Commander in Tweet couldn't help himself and got out of his lane. Then staged a publicity stunt that cost hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars out of sheer pettiness. He's a POS that is the real issue here.
This statement was incorrect the last time you said it and still is today.
During the preseason, over 70 players knelt, sat or power fisted during the national anthem.
In Weeks 1 and 2, players did the same from nine different teams.
Ratings in weeks 1 and 2 were awful.
#boycottNFL trended highly in week 2
The CiC made his comments just prior to week 3, and absolutely gas was thrown on the fire, but to suggest it wasn't an issue prior to that is ignoring data.
If the players didn't do what they did in preseason, week 1, and week 2, CiC doesn't make his comments. He's a reactionary person. It doesn't happen in a vacuum for him. If you don't want CiC to tweet about something, don't call attention to it which is exactly what the players were doing.
The last time CiC made a NFL tweet was Sept 30th, more than 5 weeks ago. Has the issue stopped? Are ratings rebounding? Did Vin Scully throw fuel on the fire? Did Papa John's? Did Wall Street with warnings about financial impacts? Did Jerry Jones when he said the league is being impacted greatly? Did Jim Brown when he said players should stand and honor flag and country?
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Why don't you ask the veterans that feel disrespected. That's all that matters. You can find many vets that support the protests and many that say it is disrespectful. It all comes down to how each individual feels, that's what ultimately matters in this.
Good. Glad we cleared that up. Out of intellectual consistency, I expect that you will have no counterargument to "if someone feels disrespected, that's all that matters" when discussing social issues on this board.
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Man, I’ve agree with Jock and Grumpy 2 daze in a row. Watts wrong here, hey?
Knock it off.
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I think the Packers should part ways with Ted Thompson and seek the next solution as GM. John Dorsey would be my choice. Then let the new GM make decisions about the coaching staff.
Would love Dorsey.
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I think the Packers should part ways with Ted Thompson and seek the next solution as GM. John Dorsey would be my choice. Then let the new GM make decisions about the coaching staff.
Dorsey would be fine, but I would prefer Schneider. The difference between he and TT is stunning.
Ted has built a Cleveland-like franchise around ARod. I am not impressed.
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A truly stunning stat in the MJS today.
Thompson has not drafted an offensive player at a skill position in the top 50 picks in the draft in 9 years. So, without AROD, last night is what we get. Cleveland or SF type talent on offense.
And it doesn't matter who they have on 'D', cuz Capers is always 3 plays behind the other team's OC.
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Why don't you ask the veterans that feel disrespected. That's all that matters. You can find many vets that support the protests and many that say it is disrespectful. It all comes down to how each individual feels, that's what ultimately matters in this.
The players can say it isn't about the flag (even though Kapaernick said he would not respect the flag or country, his words) and isn't about the military, but if some in the military think it is, then it is for them. For others in the military, it isn't an issue.
Perfect. For some American Indians, the Redskins symbol is racist. For others - and of course for you - it is not.
Ipso fatso, "That's all that matters." It's racist!
Oh ... and you can't respond to this because you have been banned multiple times. I thought you were against lawless societies.
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Thompson has not drafted an offensive player at a skill position in the top 50 picks in the draft in 9 years.
How many picks in the top 50 have the Packers had total the last 9 years?
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Good. Glad we cleared that up. Out of intellectual consistency, I expect that you will have no counterargument to "if someone feels disrespected, that's all that matters" when discussing social issues on this board.
Right. Native Americans, African Americans, other groups. If they feel disrespected by an action, that's all that matters.
I assume he'll be consistent about this standard across the board
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With Hundley starting all year they’re fighting for the first overall pick with the 9ers and Brownies.
As a Browns fan, it depresses me that I can confidently say the Packers have no chance to win this particular battle...
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Dorsey would be fine, but I would prefer Schneider. The difference between he and TT is stunning.
Ted has built a Cleveland-like franchise around ARod. I am not impressed.
Don't go all hyperbolic. Thompson built a Super Bowl champion out of the salary cap mess left by Mike Sherman. They were in the NFC Championship game as soon as last year.
I think it is time for him to go, but he deserves proper recognition for what he has accomplished.
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How many picks in the top 50 have the Packers had total the last 9 years?
11. They also had 4 more in the 51-60 range and only 1 was used on a skill player - Adams.
That is why the offense - minus ARod - is among the most anemic in the league.
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You mean to tell me that when a team is built around an MVP-caliber QB and that QB gets injured and is replaced by an inexperienced 5th Round Pick, the team suffers? Who saw that one coming? ::)
With a healthy Aaron Rodgers, GB is one of the best teams in the NFL. Without him, they're far from it. The same can be said for the Pats and Brady, the Eagles and Wentz, the Steelers and Ben, etc. If Aaron Rodgers was on the Bears, they'd be among the best teams in the league, despite their awful receiving corps. A great QB makes up for a huge amount of deficiencies.
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Don't go all hyperbolic. Thompson built a Super Bowl champion out of the salary cap mess left by Mike Sherman. They were in the NFC Championship game as soon as last year.
I think it is time for him to go, but he deserves proper recognition for what he has accomplished.
The great QBs always make their teams a contender.
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Can we finally talk about how Mike McCarthy isn't the offensive genius that he gets all the praise for?
Team is a dumpster fire, and I hope they lose out.
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You mean to tell me that when a team is built around an MVP-caliber QB and that QB gets injured and is replaced by an inexperienced 5th Round Pick, the team suffers? Who saw that one coming? ::)
With a healthy Aaron Rodgers, GB is one of the best teams in the NFL. Without him, they're far from it. The same can be said for the Pats and Brady, the Eagles and Wentz, the Steelers and Ben, etc. If Aaron Rodgers was on the Bears, they'd be among the best teams in the league, despite their awful receiving corps. A great QB makes up for a huge amount of deficiencies.
Except the Patriots went 11-5 with Matt Cassell who did absolutely nothing outside of New England
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11. They also had 4 more in the 51-60 range and only 1 was used on a skill player - Adams.
That is why the offense - minus ARod - is among the most anemic in the league.
Adams had a chance to lay out and make a big diving catch last night. Instead, he lamely reached for the ball with one hand; it bounced off his one hand and fell to the turf. Nice effort there. Way to help the young QB.
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Can we finally talk about how Mike McCarthy isn't the offensive genius that he gets all the praise for?
Team is a dumpster fire, and I hope they lose out.
I will support this viewpoint....very interesting that when the offense is taken out of MM's hands (two minute/hurry-up) it seems to operate just a little bit better. In fact the best drives last night were in the hurry-up. I think Hundley is a capable back-up, I think the issue is MM's unwillingness to unleash an offense that works for him and all the youth on defense.
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Adams had a chance to lay out and make a big diving catch last night. Instead, he lamely reached for the ball with one hand; it bounced off his one hand and fell to the turf. Nice effort there. Way to help the young QB.
I wasn't able to watch the game last night, but I don't think Adams is a guy you have to worry about in terms of effort. The guy looked like he might've died on the field earlier this season, spent the night in the hospital, and 10 days later scored two touchdowns, including the game winner, in Dallas. If anybody from the Packers deserves to get paid this offseason, it's Davante Adams.
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Except the Patriots went 11-5 with Matt Cassell who did absolutely nothing outside of New England
OK. That's one example and NE didn't even make the Playoffs that season. How many more ya got?
Also, Cassel went 10-5 as a starter in 2008 and led KC to the Playoffs by throwing 27 TDs and 7 INTs in a Pro Bowl season.
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The great QBs always make their teams a contender.
Andrew Luck would flip you off, but he can't lift up his arm.
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Except the Patriots went 11-5 with Matt Cassell who did absolutely nothing outside of New England
You are correct. Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy aren't as good as the people running the best franchise of the past 15 years. They should be fired, their dogs killed and their lawns salted.
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Andrew Luck would flip you off, but he can't lift up his arm.
He can, but his brain won't let him. Allegedly.
If Andrew luck is a Colt next year, I'd be shocked
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Something I knew already - but looked it up to get the actual numbers:
The Packers have forced fewer punts than any team in the NFL. One of the best measures of ineptitude on defense.
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OK. That's one example and NE didn't even make the Playoffs that season. How many more ya got?
Also, Cassel went 10-5 as a starter in 2008 and led KC to the Playoffs by throwing 27 TDs and 7 INTs in a Pro Bowl season.
The Vikings look like they may be headed to the playoffs with Case Keenum....
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The Vikings look like they may be headed to the playoffs with Case Keenum....
Were the Vikings built around an MVP-caliber QB?
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Were the Vikings built around an MVP-caliber QB?
In the two games he played this season, yes.
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You are correct. Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy aren't as good as the people running the best franchise of the past 15 years. They should be fired, their dogs killed and their lawns salted.
OK, so what is the expectation we should have for them, they have a franchise QB fall into their laps and they build an offense that apparently only he can run but it's ok because they also built an extremely mediocre defense with all the money they save because Rodgers doesn't have to be paid his actual value.
It's not like Rodgers is soaking up a lot of cap space, how is the defense as bad as it was last night with two weeks to prepare? Inability to coach, lack of talent, bad scheme? It's gotta be something right?
Side note, Bulaga tore his ACL last night so guess we're rolling with our 3rd string OT for the rest of the season.
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My expectation is that they build a team that is successful and is a championship contender. By and large, they have done that. Do I wish they would have won more championships? Sure. But I am not going to be *that* fan.
They've done fine. But as I have said, it just feels like this group has run its course.
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In the two games he played this season, yes.
Bradford was great against New Orleans then bad/injured/benched against the Bears in Week 5 and hasn't been seen since. On top of that, last season Bradford was 7-8 as a starter for a team that finished 18th in passing offense and he received as many MVP votes as I did. The Vikings also signed Latavius Murray and drafted Dalvin Cook in the 2nd Round. They were hardly a team built around an MVP-caliber QB.
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Were the Vikings built around an MVP-caliber QB?
No, but they apparently were smart enough to have more than one competent QB on the roster.
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No, but they apparently were smart enough to have more than one competent QB on the roster.
If this is a reference to Hundley, I actually think he's competent....I think it's the coaching staff that is in question.
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Were the Vikings built around an MVP-caliber QB?
Defense = GB doesn't have one.
Same thing in Houston a couple years ago.
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I saw two teams last night that lack playmakers on defense, lack running games, lack great offensive lines. One still has their starting quarterback. If the positions were reversed, and AR played and the Lions were going with Jake Rudock at quarterback, the beatdown would have gone the other way and been worse.
I feel like the Lions have the right pieces in the backfield as far as RBs are concerned, but JBC rarely uses them correctly.
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If you have an all timer at QB, the general manager has free range to bolster the rest of the roster.
What exactly has been bolstered?
Ryan Pace has built a pretty good defense and offensive line while having to over reach for a QB.
What has TT built that is above average outside AR12?
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If you have an all timer at QB, the general manager has free range to bolster the rest of the roster.
Not if he eats up 15% of your cap. Teams like the Colts, Saints, Washington, Ravens, and Cardinals (and soon the Lions and Raiders) all have QBs that take up a ton of their space, and its really crippled their abilities to build around them. Granted, only Ind and maybe NO have QBs that could arguably come close to what Rodgers gives you, but i don't think having Rodgers really frees you up in roster construction.
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Good. Glad we cleared that up. Out of intellectual consistency, I expect that you will have no counterargument to "if someone feels disrespected, that's all that matters" when discussing social issues on this board.
But that isn't what I stated. I said that some will be upset and some will not, using the military as an example. Is that not true? We can't get 100% of Americans to agree we went to the moon or that the earth is a sphere, you don't expect everyone to agree on anything else do you?
It comes down to degrees in my view. If 65% of American Veterans think you should stand for the national anthem and kneeling is disrespectful (poll in October), is that the same as 18% of Native Americans wanting to change a nickname?
We should acknowledge the views of both sides, but that doesn't mean both sides are equal in the argument or claim. Or do you think it does?
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Not if he eats up 15% of your cap. Teams like the Colts, Saints, Washington, Ravens, and Cardinals (and soon the Lions and Raiders) all have QBs that take up a ton of their space, and its really crippled their abilities to build around them. Granted, only Ind and maybe NO have QBs that could arguably come close to what Rodgers gives you, but i don't think having Rodgers really frees you up in roster construction.
I don't disagree on the term of salary cap, but that's never been a GB issue.
TT still hasn't built anything out of the draft.
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I don't disagree on the term of salary cap, but that's never been a GB issue.
TT still hasn't built anything out of the draft.
You're right, I was probably being a little obtuse. I generally like TT's philosophy and commitment to building through the draft, but the problem is that he just hasn't done anything with those picks. Here are the Pack's first and second rounders since 2010 - not great: Mike Neal, Bryan Bulaga, Randall Cobb, Derek Sherrod, Casey Hayward, Jerel Worthy, Nick Perry, Eddie Lacy, Datone Jones, Davante Adams, Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Quinten Rollins, Damarious Randall, Jason Spriggs, Kenny Clark, Josh Jones, Kevin King.
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You're right, I was probably being a little obtuse. I generally like TT's philosophy and commitment to building through the draft, but the problem is that he just hasn't done anything with those picks. Here are the Pack's first and second rounders since 2010 - not great: Mike Neal, Bryan Bulaga, Randall Cobb, Derek Sherrod, Casey Hayward, Jerel Worthy, Nick Perry, Eddie Lacy, Datone Jones, Davante Adams, Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Quinten Rollins, Damarious Randall, Jason Spriggs, Kenny Clark, Josh Jones, Kevin King.
Most of those guys have been pretty good NFL players.
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Most of those guys have been pretty good NFL players.
Right. Except teams that get no great players in the first two rounds over a period of time don't fare well unless you have a HOF QB. The roster, minus ARod, is average at best. Possibly below average.
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I feel like the Lions have the right pieces in the backfield as far as RBs are concerned, but JBC rarely uses them correctly.
No fullback. Abdullah is small and fumbles. Riddick is a third down pass catcher. Nobody can be counted on to score from the 2 yard line. Therefore, they aren't the right pieces.
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Right. Except teams that get no great players in the first two rounds over a period of time don't fare well unless you have a HOF QB. The roster, minus ARod, is average at best. Possibly below average.
Bingo.
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Right. Except teams that get no great players in the first two rounds over a period of time don't fare well unless you have a HOF QB. The roster, minus ARod, is average at best. Possibly below average.
I think this roster wins the North with any average starting quarterback. Give th Packers Joe Flacco for this entire season and they’re a 10-6 type season.
No team in the NFL is winning with Brett Hundley. It’s not that the only QB who can take the Packers from the Browns to the Playoffs is Aaron Rodgers. It’s that Brett Hundley doesn’t allow any team to be anything but the Browns.
QB is by far the most important position in football. When you have the worst starting QB in football you aren’t going to win many games.
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I think this roster wins the North with any average starting quarterback. Give th Packers Joe Flacco for this entire season and they’re a 10-6 type season.
No team in the NFL is winning with Brett Hundley. It’s not that the only QB who can take the Packers from the Browns to the Playoffs is Aaron Rodgers. It’s that Brett Hundley doesn’t allow any team to be anything but the Browns.
QB is by far the most important position in football. When you have the worst starting QB in football you aren’t going to win many games.
Could Joe Flacco win with this defense? Offense is a problem but it isn't THE problem. This defense gave up 30 points with two weeks to prepare for a Lions team that's previous outing resulted in kicking 5 field goals against the Steelers at home and losing (A Steelers team that lost to the Bears I might add).
TT has invested in the defense and it's still crap. It's a talent recognition issue or it's a talent development issue, but either way some has got to go.
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I think this roster wins the North with any average starting quarterback. Give th Packers Joe Flacco for this entire season and they’re a 10-6 type season.
No team in the NFL is winning with Brett Hundley. It’s not that the only QB who can take the Packers from the Browns to the Playoffs is Aaron Rodgers. It’s that Brett Hundley doesn’t allow any team to be anything but the Browns.
QB is by far the most important position in football. When you have the worst starting QB in football you aren’t going to win many games.
Then the Packers did a poor job of drafting him or developing him, yes?
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Then the Packers did a poor job of drafting him or developing him, yes?
Well I think in retrospect you can see why he fell to the fifth round in a pretty bad quarterback draft.
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I'm still not convinced Hundley is the problem.
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I'm still not convinced Hundley is the problem.
I don't think he is the entire problem. A defense that hasn't forced a punt for more than six quarters is a problem.
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If anyone wants a great deal on a pair of tickets in Sec. 330 for the Ravens game PM me.
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I'm still not convinced Hundley is the problem.
He's not the biggest problem Eng. But GB has no ability to fix the other problems this year in my view so personally I'd ride him out.
Kinda too bad. His poor 10 game audition will eliminate any chance at a meaningful second contract. And from all reports he's a darn good kid.
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Kinda too bad. His poor 10 game audition will eliminate any chance at a meaningful second contract. And from all reports he's a darn good kid.
Based on some of the QBs getting signed in the last few weeks, I think he will get another chance. There's some bad qbs on rosters.
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Then the Packers did a poor job of drafting him or developing him, yes?
How many teams draft a quarterback to back up a HOF quarterback in the 5th round and develop them into anything more than a guy who holds a clipboard and takes some victory formation snaps in blowouts?
Not many teams are going to win a lot of football games when their starting quarterback goes down. The only situations where backup quarterbacks come in and play winning football is when a team either drafts a young quarterback early and starts him on the bench to start the year (like the Bears this year) or know going into the season their quarterback situation is dicey and they need a solid guy available if their injury prone starter gets injured (like the Vikings this year).
Teams like the Packers, Steelers, Titans, Raiders, Eagles, Lions, Saints, Panthers, Falcons, Rams, Cardinals, etc. don't develop their backup quarterbacks into guys that could jump right in and have their teams not miss a beat. By and large, in the NFL when your starting quarterback goes out for the year, your season is over.
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The Packers did with Favre. A lot of backups went on to be starters. Some better than others.
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How many teams draft a quarterback to back up a HOF quarterback in the 5th round and develop them into anything more than a guy who holds a clipboard and takes some victory formation snaps in blowouts?
Not many teams are going to win a lot of football games when their starting quarterback goes down. The only situations where backup quarterbacks come in and play winning football is when a team either drafts a young quarterback early and starts him on the bench to start the year (like the Bears this year) or know going into the season their quarterback situation is dicey and they need a solid guy available if their injury prone starter gets injured (like the Vikings this year).
Teams like the Packers, Steelers, Titans, Raiders, Eagles, Lions, Saints, Panthers, Falcons, Rams, Cardinals, etc. don't develop their backup quarterbacks into guys that could jump right in and have their teams not miss a beat. By and large, in the NFL when your starting quarterback goes out for the year, your season is over.
I have Aaron Brooks, Mark Brunell, Ty Detmer, Matt Hasselback, and Matt Flynn on lines 1 through 5 for you
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I have Aaron Brooks, Mark Brunell, Ty Detmer, Matt Hasselback, and Matt Flynn on lines 1 through 5 for you
Aaron Brooks a career 38-52 record. Mark Brunell 78-73 after just 1 season as a backup. Ty Detmer 11-14. Matt Hasselback 85-75 after just 2 seasons as a backup. Matt Flynn 3-4.
The only two guys who had any success in their careers were backups for 1 and 2 seasons, respectively, in their career. Otherwise they were starters.
Hundley will be a career backup. Career backups tend to be not very good, and tend to have pretty bad records in the NFL.
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Aaron Brooks a career 38-52 record. Mark Brunell 78-73 after just 1 season as a backup. Ty Detmer 11-14. Matt Hasselback 85-75 after just 2 seasons as a backup. Matt Flynn 3-4.
The only two guys who had any success in their careers were backups for 1 and 2 seasons, respectively, in their career. Otherwise they were starters.
Hundley will be a career backup. Career backups tend to be not very good, and tend to have pretty bad records in the NFL.
You're shifting goalposts here. You started by saying teams don't develop backups into anything more than guys "who holds a clipboard and takes some victory formation snaps in blowouts." Grimes just cited five former Packer backups who went on to be way more than that, and you dismiss it because of their records as starters?
What about the Patriots? They've drafted and developed several guys behind Brady and then flipped them for more assets (Garroppolo, Brisset, Mallett, Cassel). And, of course, Brady himself was a guy who started as a clipboard carrier.
I mean, if your overall point is that backups are worse than starters ... well, OK. That seems fairly self-evident. But suggesting that developing a backup into anything more than a clipboard carrier is somehow rare and revolutionary, that's just not true.
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Based on some of the QBs getting signed in the last few weeks, I think he will get another chance. There's some bad qbs on rosters.
He'll get a contract. But nothing that looks like starting or 1A money. Frankly, as much as I respect the guy, I want the Packers to try again.
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You're shifting goalposts here. You started by saying teams don't develop backups into anything more than guys "who holds a clipboard and takes some victory formation snaps in blowouts." Grimes just cited five former Packer backups who went on to be way more than that, and you dismiss it because of their records as starters?
What about the Patriots? They've drafted and developed several guys behind Brady and then flipped them for more assets (Garroppolo, Brisset, Mallett, Cassel). And, of course, Brady himself was a guy who started as a clipboard carrier.
I mean, if your overall point is that backups are worse than starters ... well, OK. That seems fairly self-evident. But suggesting that developing a backup into anything more than a clipboard carrier is somehow rare and revolutionary, that's just not true.
I did? My point is and has always been that teams that lose their starting quarterbacks are going to do poorly. Pointing out 3 backups who had awful NFL careers and 2 other quarterbacks who were starters by year 3 doesn't change that. If you think that in his one season as a with the Green Back Packers Mark Brunell developed into a starting quarterback caliber player and could've jumped right in and led the team to a bunch of wins had Favre gone down that season then more power to you. I personally don't think that's the case, but I have no way to prove it so maybe you're onto something.
Of course some quarterbacks develop as backups early in their careers. Like Rodgers. That's not the point. The point is that not many teams carry 2 starting caliber quarterbacks on their roster. The only teams that do are the ones who do draft that young quarterback with a ton of talent but have a veteran starting until the young guy is ready (the Bears) or the team that goes into the season uncertain about their starting quarterback position due to injuries (the Vikings). If you don't fall into one of those two categories (the Packers clearly don't), you aren't going to have a guy on your roster who can step in and sling the ball all over the field if your starter goes down.
The fact that a team can flip a backup for assets doesn't mean that if those backups were throw into the fire they would've succeeded. Matt Flynn became a millionaire but that doesn't mean he would've led the Packers to a bunch of wins if Rodgers got hurt when he was in Green Bay.
Teams aren't winning football games with quarterbacks the caliber of Brett Hundley.
About 30 franchises would kill to trade spots with the Packers. The fact that they can't recover from a season ending injury to their starting quarterback shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. The Steelers wouldn't either. The Titans wouldn't. The Texans won't. The only team that might be able to still make the Playoffs without their starting quarterback is the Patriots, and they have the greatest coach in the history of sports.
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Jerrah just needs to go full track suit before his transition into Al Davis is complete.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/08/sports/jerry-jones-nfl-roger-goodell-david-boies.html
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I'm not shocked in the least that the Packers cut Bennett. Whichever NFL thread it was previous to this one, I remember saying that it wouldn't be a good signing.
One of the few NFL predictions I've actually gotten right recently though, my recent track record is subpar.
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Packers are claiming he didn't disclose a prior injury. Pretense for going after his signing bonus.
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If anyone wants a great deal on a pair of tickets in Sec. 330 for the Ravens game PM me.
PM sent.
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Packers are claiming he didn't disclose a prior injury. Pretense for going after his signing bonus.
I wouldn't be surprised. I also think that the second Rodgers went down he decided he was done.
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The Packers did with Favre. A lot of backups went on to be starters. Some better than others.
Much different situation. Wolff thought he was a starting caliber QB - hence he went after him with the plan that he would be the future in GB.
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Much different situation. Wolff thought he was a starting caliber QB - hence he went after him with the plan that he would be the future in GB.
I meant when Favre was starter, they had some talented backups who became starters. I think teams try to develop backup QBs to be trade bait too. Especially with the struggle to find a good an. If you have a solid starter, the backup could get you a nice pick or two.
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But that isn't what I stated. I said that some will be upset and some will not, using the military as an example. Is that not true? We can't get 100% of Americans to agree we went to the moon or that the earth is a sphere, you don't expect everyone to agree on anything else do you?
It comes down to degrees in my view. If 65% of American Veterans think you should stand for the national anthem and kneeling is disrespectful (poll in October), is that the same as 18% of Native Americans wanting to change a nickname?
We should acknowledge the views of both sides, but that doesn't mean both sides are equal in the argument or claim. Or do you think it does?
this is a great statement dude...whoever you are ;)
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I wouldn't be surprised. I also think that the second Rodgers went down he decided he was done.
Yep. And I have no problem with the Packers going after the $4.2MM. I was hoping to like Marty. Never happened.
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Yep. And I have no problem with the Packers going after the $4.2MM. I was hoping to like Marty. Never happened.
When things are going well, he can be a great guy and a highly productive player. When things aren't going well, he mails it in and can be a terrible guy in the lockerroom. He's hurt and things are not going well in GB right now. It's a very logical move to dump him.
Excuse my ignorance but does having an "undisclosed injury" mean that he was injured when he signed (which should have been caught during his physical) or that he tried to hide an injury during the season or could it be that he injured himself off the field but didn't fess up?
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When things are going well, he can be a great guy and a highly productive player. When things aren't going well, he mails it in and can be a terrible guy in the lockerroom. He's hurt and things are not going well in GB right now. It's a very logical move to dump him.
Excuse my ignorance but does having an "undisclosed injury" mean that he was injured when he signed (which should have been caught during his physical) or that he tried to hide an injury during the season or could it be that he injured himself off the field but didn't fess up?
As to your question, I think the definition is somewhat broad. Frankly, I think Marty decided that old aches and pains were bothering him sooooo much that he couldn't play after Rodgers got hurt. By CBA he gets two doctors visits and probably found some quack that said he could 'benefit' from season ending surgery. I hope he loses any appeal and that the Packers refuse to pay for his plane ticket out of town. Oh, and give that #80 back. It's been worn by some true legends so don't soil it another minutes a-clown.
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When things are going well, he can be a great guy and a highly productive player. When things aren't going well, he mails it in and can be a terrible guy in the lockerroom. He's hurt and things are not going well in GB right now. It's a very logical move to dump him.
Excuse my ignorance but does having an "undisclosed injury" mean that he was injured when he signed (which should have been caught during his physical) or that he tried to hide an injury during the season or could it be that he injured himself off the field but didn't fess up?
I was thinking the same thing about passing a physical before officially signing with the Packers. I heard some doctor or something call into a radio show yesterday and basically say that unless someone tells a doctor what kind of pain they have and what movements cause it and where it is, it's pretty easy to keep a doctor from finding a shoulder injury. I can't imagine that sports teams give MRIs to all joints or something before giving a player the all clear in a physical. I would imagine it would be more your "yearly doctor appointment" type stuff to make sure nothing comes up unless there is a known lingering injury they know they need to look into.
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Except the Patriots went 11-5 with Matt Cassell who did absolutely nothing outside of New England
Cassell made the Pro Bowl for the Chiefs in 2011. 27 TDs, 7 INTS with a 93 passer rating.
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The undisclosed injury was that he claimed to injure himself prior to the bye. But he didn’t notify the staff until after he participated in practice the Tuesday after the bye week. Otherwise he would have had to remain in Green Bay for training during the week.
The story is that he quit on the team and was using the injury as an excuse not to play. I heard it reported that he wasn’t even on the sidelines last Sunday. He went home to Chicago.
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This is not a dig at the city of Green Bay at all, but from the onset, the Bennett signing was wrong guy, wrong city, organization that wasn't going to put up with his crap. The mix to me never felt good.
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The undisclosed injury was that he claimed to injure himself prior to the bye. But he didn’t notify the staff until after he participated in practice the Tuesday after the bye week. Otherwise he would have had to remain in Green Bay for training during the week.
The story is that he quit on the team and was using the injury as an excuse not to play. I heard it reported that he wasn’t even on the sidelines last Sunday. He went home to Chicago.
JS reporting the same thing (it was technically Monday night). Now it's just about money. By Tuesday his locker was being cleaned out.
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Cassell made the Pro Bowl for the Chiefs in 2011. 27 TDs, 7 INTS with a 93 passer rating.
Yep.
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Oh, and give that #80 back. It's been worn by some true legends so don't soil it another minutes a-clown.
Yes, it does sound like you were hoping to like Marty. ;)
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Bennett headed back to that Pats. Very little doubt in my mind he quit on the team when A-A-Ron went down.
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Yes, it does sound like you were hoping to like Marty. ;)
Seriously! I was. I knew he was outspoken but I liked his work with the Bears and wanted the Packers to sign him then.
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Jerrah just needs to go full track suit before his transition into Al Davis is complete.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/08/sports/jerry-jones-nfl-roger-goodell-david-boies.html
I don't think Jerry was that upset when Goddell screwed up the Rice thing. But, this is his very own fave sex offender. Now, he is mad.
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Jerrah just needs to go full track suit before his transition into Al Davis is complete.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/08/sports/jerry-jones-nfl-roger-goodell-david-boies.html
Let's not besmirch the dead. Al Davis was very open and public about his disagreements with the commissioner's office - well, mostly Rozelle - not a little sneak like Jerry who uses surrogates to do his dirty work (looking at you, Papa John).
Also, unlike Jerry, Al actually was a football guy.
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Bennett headed back to that Pats. Very little doubt in my mind he quit on the team when A-A-Ron went down.
i don't have access to it, but bob mcginn, long time, well respected packer writer has an interesting story on his blog which is available only thru subscription. a radio guy was discussing it earlier today-martellis was basically a slug before the ink was dry on his ?$million dollar contract. nobody had the stones to tell him to pick it up. doubt he try's to pull that schnit on belichek
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Bennett going off on Twitter this evening.
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Bennett going off on Twitter this evening.
Wow the packer fans on Twitter make Kaminsky look tame.
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I have Aaron Brooks, Mark Brunell, Ty Detmer, Matt Hasselback, and Matt Flynn on lines 1 through 5 for you
You missed Tom Brady and Brett Favre.
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Wow the packer fans on Twitter make Kaminsky look tame.
These people on a Venn diagram are a single circle.
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These people on a Venn diagram are a single circle.
+1
I'd lay money that Bennett knew what he was doing and expected this... and when you quit on your team, you sort of deserve some of it.
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Wow the packer fans on Twitter make Kaminsky look tame.
I'm not going to look anything up on twitter but the fact is that Bennett both quit on his teammates and potentially defrauded the Packers with his 'injury'. I have zero respect for him and unless it crosses the line of decency, Packers fans have the right to vent against him.
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You know MB starting complaining about some old shoulder injury when AR12 went down.
'Oh what shoulder injury?'
'Yeah, I tweaked in in 201?. Flares up from time to time.'
Packers:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3oEjI3pZn3hFRNtzSo/giphy.gif)
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Same old Marty, hey?
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All I know is that if he suits up for the Pat's Sunday he's going to lose that $4.2 million back to the Pack. Good.
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I remember being out with a few GB fans during a preseason game where Bennett caught a TD and they were all very excited about the signing. I told them to give it about 10 games and they'd be done him. Turns out it only took 8 games. Marty must have gotten more efficient in his ability to wear on people.
When a guy with his kind of talent has been on 5 teams (kind of 6) in a 10-year career, it's very telling.
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Well I think in retrospect you can see why he fell to the fifth round in a pretty bad quarterback draft.
But they have kept him, feeling it worth the investment.
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I'm not going to look anything up on twitter but the fact is that Bennett both quit on his teammates and potentially defrauded the Packers with his 'injury'. I have zero respect for him and unless it crosses the line of decency, Packers fans have the right to vent against him.
Remember the difference between fact and opinion. I am well versed in this area since I do it so often.
He has a rotator cuff injury. We all love to attack athletes when we don't feel their injuries are enough to satisfy us.
I've had the same injury and it is no fun. I was able to function, but it took about two years to fully heal.
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Remember the difference between fact and opinion. I am well versed in this area since I do it so often.
He has a rotator cuff injury. We all love to attack athletes when we don't feel their injuries are enough to satisfy us.
I've had the same injury and it is no fun. I was able to function, but it took about two years to fully heal.
That's neat, but not what he said. Marty B needed to disclose his injury, but he clearly didn't... that is the crux of the problem.
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Remember the difference between fact and opinion. I am well versed in this area since I do it so often.
He has a rotator cuff injury. We all love to attack athletes when we don't feel their injuries are enough to satisfy us.
I've had the same injury and it is no fun. I was able to function, but it took about two years to fully heal.
In a 30+ year career where folks tried to spin me for a living, I got very good at detecting the bullcrap meter. Mark this one down. I'm not saying he wasn't hurt. I'm saying he chose not to play through (or disclose) something the instant ARodg hit the turf.
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That's neat, but not what he said. Marty B needed to disclose his injury, but he clearly didn't... that is the crux of the problem.
Agreed. I would have cut him for this as well.
I was just clearing things up for those who said he was faking the injury.
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Marty cleared his physical with the Pats and was practicing today.
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Marty cleared his physical with the Pats and was practicing today.
:o
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Marty cleared his physical with the Pats and was practicing today.
So he just wanted out.
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Fook Marty and da horse he rode in on, hey?
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It should be an interesting couple of months for the Bears. They're sitting a 3-5 with home games that they should win against GB, SF and Cleveland plus winnable a road game against the sputtering Bengals. They're not going to win in Philly but I'm not ready to count them out against Detroit (home/away) or at Minnesota. It's hard to imagine the Bears going to the playoffs but this team could conceivably finish 8-8*. If they do, is John Fox still on his way out?
Fox obviously isn't the long-term solution for the Bears but he's actually done a pretty good job, despite how his W-L record looks. I'm not one of the Anti-Foxxers who can't wait to see him go, but I'm also not going to be heart-broken if this is his final season. If the Bears could bring in an offensive-minded HC to lead the "Trubisky Era" (i.e. Pete Carmichael who has ties to Pace from NO) but also keep Vic Fangio as DC (who's in the final year of his contract), that'd be a win-win.
* - admittedly, they could also conceivably finish 5-11
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I'm too dumb to follow this. The Packers cut him due to a torn rotator cuff/labrum because he didn't disclose it to the team, but its not severe enough to keep him from passing his physical with NE?
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Torn rotator didn’t stop ‘im from raisin’ his fist. Played like stink. Mofo didn’t wanna compete four da Green and Gold, hey?
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I'm too dumb to follow this. The Packers cut him due to a torn rotator cuff/labrum because he didn't disclose it to the team, but its not severe enough to keep him from passing his physical with NE?
He was essentially 'refusing' to play because of the injury with the Packers. Hadn't practiced since the first Tuesday back from the bye.
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Last 24 hours
Jerry to sue NFL to get Roger's contract stopped.
Media analysts predict NFL TV Ratings to get worse balance of the year.
Bob Costas says NFL in big trouble
POTUS hasn't tweeted a damn thing about NFL in 5 weeks.
-
Last 24 hours
Jerry to sue NFL to get Roger's contract stopped.
Media analysts predict NFL TV Ratings to get worse balance of the year.
Bob Costas says NFL in big trouble
POTUS hasn't tweeted a damn thing about NFL in 5 weeks.
In just the last 24 hours, Trump hasn't tweeted about the NFL in 5 weeks?!
(http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/ice_cube_wtf.gif)
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It should be an interesting couple of months for the Bears. They're sitting a 3-5 with home games that they should win against GB, SF and Cleveland plus winnable a road game against the sputtering Bengals. They're not going to win in Philly but I'm not ready to count them out against Detroit (home/away) or at Minnesota. It's hard to imagine the Bears going to the playoffs but this team could conceivably finish 8-8*. If they do, is John Fox still on his way out?
Fox obviously isn't the long-term solution for the Bears but he's actually done a pretty good job, despite how his W-L record looks. I'm not one of the Anti-Foxxers who can't wait to see him go, but I'm also not going to be heart-broken if this is his final season. If the Bears could bring in an offensive-minded HC to lead the "Trubisky Era" (i.e. Pete Carmichael who has ties to Pace from NO) but also keep Vic Fangio as DC (who's in the final year of his contract), that'd be a win-win.
* - admittedly, they could also conceivably finish 5-11
I don't see how Fox helps Trubisky's development. Really, that what this franchise is about for the next few years.
Look at what the Rams have done to support Jared Goff (both with coaching & personal).
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https://twitter.com/RobDemovsky/status/929082246077845505
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Last 24 hours
Jerry to sue NFL to get Roger's contract stopped.
Media analysts predict NFL TV Ratings to get worse balance of the year.
Bob Costas says NFL in big trouble
POTUS hasn't tweeted a damn thing about NFL in 5 weeks.
Good.
-
Last 24 hours
Jerry to sue NFL to get Roger's contract stopped.
Media analysts predict NFL TV Ratings to get worse balance of the year.
Bob Costas says NFL in big trouble
POTUS hasn't tweeted a damn thing about NFL in 5 weeks.
Forgot to add that name-changer who has been banned from Scoop repeatedly keeps harping on the same issues. Also won't account for why the most flag-lovin' sport in the USA and one that has been blessed by the president for its patriotism, NASCAR, has been bleeding ratings for years. Also can't explain why NFL ratings actually are declining less than ratings for TV as a whole.
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Last 24 hours
Jerry to sue NFL to get Roger's contract stopped.
Media analysts predict NFL TV Ratings to get worse balance of the year.
Bob Costas says NFL in big trouble
POTUS hasn't tweeted a damn thing about NFL in 5 weeks.
Donald J. Trump ✔@realDonaldTrump
The NFL has decided that it will not force players to stand for the playing of our National Anthem. Total disrespect for our great country!
5:06 AM - Oct 18, 2017
23 days ago.
Donald J. TrumpVerified account
@realDonaldTrump
Oct 23
More
Two dozen NFL players continue to kneel during the National Anthem, showing total disrespect to our Flag & Country. No leadership in NFL!
18 days ago.
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Donald J. Trump ✔@realDonaldTrump
The NFL has decided that it will not force players to stand for the playing of our National Anthem. Total disrespect for our great country!
5:06 AM - Oct 18, 2017
23 days ago. didn't even look to see if there has been anything since then.
Did anyone else read that tweet in Trump's voice?
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Fake facts!
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Did anyone else read that tweet in Trump's voice?
You quoted me before I could edit, but turns out he made it about 2.5 weeks. Counting is hard.
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My buddies and I hardly watch NFL anymore and we all agree our president is a world-class doofus. The games are just unwatchable. It's not complicated.
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The team isn’t going to come out and say it but if there was any doubt on what they thought about Marty, the players’ (and even former players) defense of Dr. McKenzie speaks volumes.
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And Marty is out there crying now. See ya. And send that check to Oneida St. while your at it.
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Donald J. Trump ✔@realDonaldTrump
The NFL has decided that it will not force players to stand for the playing of our National Anthem. Total disrespect for our great country!
5:06 AM - Oct 18, 2017
23 days ago.
Donald J. TrumpVerified account
@realDonaldTrump
Oct 23
More
Two dozen NFL players continue to kneel during the National Anthem, showing total disrespect to our Flag & Country. No leadership in NFL!
18 days ago.
So, like his hero, chicos is a pathological liar. Who knew?
-
Donald J. Trump ✔@realDonaldTrump
The NFL has decided that it will not force players to stand for the playing of our National Anthem. Total disrespect for our great country!
5:06 AM - Oct 18, 2017
23 days ago.
Donald J. TrumpVerified account
@realDonaldTrump
Oct 23
More
Two dozen NFL players continue to kneel during the National Anthem, showing total disrespect to our Flag & Country. No leadership in NFL!
18 days ago.
Thank you. I knew it hadn't been 5 weeks, but didn't want to wade through that twitter account
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Last 24 hours
Jerry to sue NFL to get Roger's contract stopped.
Media analysts predict NFL TV Ratings to get worse balance of the year.
Bob Costas says NFL in big trouble
POTUS hasn't tweeted a damn thing about NFL in 5 weeks.
and....we're out of coffee ;D ;D ;D
-
Donald J. Trump ✔@realDonaldTrump
The NFL has decided that it will not force players to stand for the playing of our National Anthem. Total disrespect for our great country!
5:06 AM - Oct 18, 2017
23 days ago.
Donald J. TrumpVerified account
@realDonaldTrump
Oct 23
More
Two dozen NFL players continue to kneel during the National Anthem, showing total disrespect to our Flag & Country. No leadership in NFL!
18 days ago.
I’m struggling with my math here. Trying to walk through this. Chicolooper says not a damn thing Tweeted in five weeks. I believe(?) there are seven days in a week. So to figure out how many days in 5 weeks I think (?) you’d multiply 7 (days in a week) times 5 (weeks he hasn’t Tweeted a damn thing). By my math that’s...yeah! 18 days! Dang, Chicolooper nailed this one too! He knows everything! 5 weeks, not a damn thing.
This is the kind of math that someone comes up with who invites an out of town stranger over to their house for some beers with the significant others and to hand off some free Disney World tickets to, while the stranger visiting sits on his phone creating an MUScoop account. And a guy who comes on here discussing what a changed man he is and that he doesn’t want to be that person and hence doesn’t even want to be back on Scoop, just wants to apologize because his eyes have been opened by the love of his life. And then a few short months later is right back on Scoop teaching us all his new, superior math system! Or maybe it’s a new calendar system? 3.6 day weeks, super revolutionary stuff.
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I’m struggling with my math here. Trying to walk through this. Chicolooper says not a damn thing Tweeted in five weeks. I believe(?) there are seven days in a week. So to figure out how many days in 5 weeks I think (?) you’d multiply 7 (days in a week) times 5 (weeks he hasn’t Tweeted a damn thing). By my math that’s...yeah! 18 days! Dang, Chicolooper nailed this one too! He knows everything! 5 weeks, not a damn thing.
This is the kind of math that someone comes up with who invites an out of town stranger over to their house for some beers with the significant others and to hand off some free Disney World tickets to, while the stranger visiting sits on his phone creating an MUScoop account. And a guy who comes on here discussing what a changed man he is and that he doesn’t want to be that person and hence doesn’t even want to be back on Scoop, just wants to apologize because his eyes have been opened by the love of his life. And then a few short months later is right back on Scoop teaching us all his new, superior math system! Or maybe it’s a new calendar system? 3.6 day weeks, super revolutionary stuff.
here we go with the gang bang...
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It is hurtful to point out obvious, blatant, easily checked mistakes. Nobody likes to be called wrong when they are wrong. Shame!
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here we go with the gang bang...
Oh the irony.
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here we go with the gang bang...
Don't befriend a liar and your friend won't get attacked for lying.
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here we go with the gang bang...
It's ok Dr. Rocket, I stepped in it and will admit it. Tried to use Twitter search and failed badly. Take my lumps admit to the error, which is what it was.
18 days apparently since he last tweeted about it, but to some that's the reason for the decline. 8-)
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Forgot to add that name-changer who has been banned from Scoop repeatedly keeps harping on the same issues. Also won't account for why the most flag-lovin' sport in the USA and one that has been blessed by the president for its patriotism, NASCAR, has been bleeding ratings for years. Also can't explain why NFL ratings actually are declining less than ratings for TV as a whole.
Why are you denying the response that was provided to you on this? NASCAR has been in decline for 6 straight years. NFL only the last two years. MLB baseball, up nationally (not locally, nationally). MLB world series just scored the second best rating in the last 7 years for baseball. Why are you comparing NFL to a niche, boring sport like NASCAR where they go around in ovals? That's been a dog for a long time.
Secondly, you are wrong on the NFL ratings declining less than TV ratings as a whole, which I also provided to you. NFL ratings are down 23% in the 18-49 demo in the last two years. Now, if you want to say this year NFL ratings are down less than average television ratings, you would be correct. But not the last two years where the NFL has been drubbed. Even this year, NBC is doing better than the NFL, CBS is even, ABC and Fox are down more than the NFL.
Finally, since the no politics decree was put into place here, has anyone had more threads started that have been shut down for politics than you?
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Why are you denying the response that was provided to you on this? NASCAR has been in decline for 6 straight years. NFL only the last two years. MLB baseball, up nationally (not locally, nationally). MLB world series just scored the second best rating in the last 7 years for baseball. Why are you comparing NFL to a niche, boring sport like NASCAR where they go around in ovals? That's been a dog for a long time.
Secondly, you are wrong on the NFL ratings declining less than TV ratings as a whole, which I also provided to you. NFL ratings are down 23% in the 18-49 demo in the last two years. Now, if you want to say this year NFL ratings are down less than average television ratings, you would be correct. But not the last two years where the NFL has been drubbed. Even this year, NBC is doing better than the NFL, CBS is even, ABC and Fox are down more than the NFL.
Finally, since the no politics decree was put into place here, has anyone had more threads started that have been shut down for politics than you?
Sorry. Can't hear you. You've been banned multiple times.
I wonder how desperate a person would have to be for attention to keep posting on a silly website that has banned him repeatedly. Sad.
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Sorry. Can't hear you. You've been banned multiple times.
I wonder how desperate a person would have to be for attention to keep posting on a silly website that has banned him repeatedly. Sad.
if it weren't for some VIPs here, you should be bannerson II. he has some great insight and opposition research :o that you disagree with. so you keep on beating the same ole drum as opposed to either putting him on ignore or having the self-control to move on. either answer to his points in a civil fashion or move on-simple stuff. give us a break man-there are about 4 or 5 of us, maybe a few more, and the rest of you guys and it seems like we've lost a good one in keefe.
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if it weren't for some VIPs here, you should be bannerson II. he has some great insight and opposition research :o that you disagree with. so you keep on beating the same ole drum as opposed to either putting him on ignore or having the self-control to move on. either answer to his points in a civil fashion or move on-simple stuff. give us a break man-there are about 4 or 5 of us, maybe a few more, and the rest of you guys and it seems like we've lost a good one in keefe.
Even though keefe and I often disagreed on issues, we are friends, and I miss most of his posts here.
keefe also has some self-respect. If he were banned, he wouldn't keep changing his handle to hang around with mopes like you and me! And lastly, unlike chicos, keefe doesn't need either of us to defend him.
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Even though keefe and I often disagreed on issues, we are friends, and I miss most of his posts here.
keefe also has some self-respect. If he were banned, he wouldn't keep changing his handle to hang around with mopes like you and me! And lastly, unlike chicos, keefe doesn't need either of us to defend him.
“Self respect”. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize, polarize it, ridicule is mans most potent weapon. You are making your cousin Saul proud. It’s probably best to move on and stop insulting the mods. Banny brings to us some nice balance plus some he challenges all of us with stuff. Ok, jump all over his air ball on the tweeting thing, but Chico’s would have dug in, banny, apologized. You don’t want banny b/c he threatens you philosophically.
Time to civilly engage or move on. I doubt our resident dive bomber would approve of your “mean girl” approach here
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“Self respect”. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize, polarize it, ridicule is mans most potent weapon. You are making your cousin Saul proud. It’s probably best to move on and stop insulting the mods. Banny brings to us some nice balance plus some he challenges all of us with stuff. Ok, jump all over his air ball on the tweeting thing, but Chico’s would have dug in, banny, apologized. You don’t want banny b/c he threatens you philosphifically. Time to civilly engage or move on. I doubt our resident dive bomber would approve of your “mean girl” approach here
Can't speak for 82, but I don't want Banny here because he's an pretty boy who isn't supposed to be here due to, you know, being an pretty boy to so many people multiple times that he was banned.
Also, learn how to spell. ;D
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“Self respect”. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize, polarize it, ridicule is mans most potent weapon. You are making your cousin Saul proud. It’s probably best to move on and stop insulting the mods. Banny brings to us some nice balance plus some he challenges all of us with stuff. Ok, jump all over his air ball on the tweeting thing, but Chico’s would have dug in, banny, apologized. You don’t want banny b/c he threatens you philosphifically. Time to civilly engage or move on. I doubt our resident dive bomber would approve of your “mean girl” approach here
Here, here✊
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“Self respect”. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize, polarize it, ridicule is mans most potent weapon. You are making your cousin Saul proud. It’s probably best to move on and stop insulting the mods. Banny brings to us some nice balance plus some he challenges all of us with stuff. Ok, jump all over his air ball on the tweeting thing, but Chico’s would have dug in, banny, apologized. You don’t want banny b/c he threatens you philosophically.
Time to civilly engage or move on. I doubt our resident dive bomber would approve of your “mean girl” approach here
insulting the mods? You're cute.
chicos has made one thing abundantly clear over the years: He is a rule-of-law kind of guy. Well, the law has ruled that he can't post on Scoop any more. And yet he does, pathetically changing his name over and over again for the right to carry on his passive-aggressive, inane postings. He's a rule-of-law lawbreaker!
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insulting the mods? You're cute.
chicos has made one thing abundantly clear over the years: He is a rule-of-law kind of guy. Well, the law has ruled that he can't post on Scoop any more. And yet he does, pathetically changing his name over and over again for the right to carry on his passive-aggressive, inane postings. He's a rule-of-law lawbreaker!
life's too short man. maintain...ignore or maintain and ride the bus
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“Self respect”. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize, polarize it, ridicule is mans most potent weapon. You are making your cousin Saul proud. It’s probably best to move on and stop insulting the mods. Banny brings to us some nice balance plus some he challenges all of us with stuff. Ok, jump all over his air ball on the tweeting thing, but Chico’s would have dug in, banny, apologized. You don’t want banny b/c he threatens you philosophically.
Hold on...you still think that banny isn't Chicos?
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Which (very select few) posters that stand up for Chicolooperbanyman says quite a bit about the guy.
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insulting the mods? You're cute.
chicos has made one thing abundantly clear over the years: He is a rule-of-law kind of guy. Well, the law has ruled that he can't post on Scoop any more. And yet he does, pathetically changing his name over and over again for the right to carry on his passive-aggressive, inane postings. He's a rule-of-law lawbreaker!
But, but, we are his only "friends".
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So, Bears - Packers. Thoughts?
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So, Bears - Packers. Thoughts?
The Battle for the Basement
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The Battle for the Basement
Which young quarterback will have more success?
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Which young quarterback will have more success?
Mr. Biscuit
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I come for the football but stay for the political banter.
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insulting the mods? You're cute.
chicos has made one thing abundantly clear over the years: He is a rule-of-law kind of guy. Well, the law has ruled that he can't post on Scoop any more. And yet he does, pathetically changing his name over and over again for the right to carry on his passive-aggressive, inane postings. He's a rule-of-law lawbreaker!
How many political posts have you made in the last 18 months since they were outlawed here? Is that rule breaking?
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So the Packers line up for 4th and 1 at their own 29 yard line. Obviously you’re not snapping the ball there. Everyone in the building and watching the game knows this. There are 4 seconds more on the PLAY clock than there are on the GAME clock. What do the Pack do? Try to draw them offsides and...call a timeout?! Are you freaking kidding me?! Let the quarter end and punt the ball! Baffling how stupid people who literally do nothing else with their lives than football can be in football situations.
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That was the greatest challenge I’ve ever seen. Awesome.
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That was the greatest challenge I’ve ever seen. Awesome.
My favorite part was Fox yelling at the refs after. I mean he was the one who (quickly) through the challenge flag.
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Nice challenge, Bears. They've looked awful enough as it is.
That said, this has been a brutally officiated game, between the PI on Prince, the non-hold call on Nelson on the TD and the no PI call on GB.
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Nice challenge, Bears. They've looked awful enough as it is.
That said, this has been a brutally officiated game, between the PI on Prince, the non-hold call on Nelson on the TD and the no PI call on GB.
Refs must be caught up in the mystique of Lambeau Fiel...wait, nevermind. ::)
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Everything about that challenge play made zero sense. He was clearly out of bounds. Whoever told Fox to challenge that from the booth is an idiot. The challenge itself was for the spot, not the fumble. In terms of the fumble, it's circumstantial to the challenge. If anything, the call should have stood, then McCarthy could have challenged whether or not it was a fumble.
Just dumbness all around, NFL rules make no sense.
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Everything about that challenge play made zero sense. He was clearly out of bounds. Whoever told Fox to challenge that from the booth is an idiot. The challenge itself was for the spot, not the fumble. In terms of the fumble, it's circumstantial to the challenge. If anything, the call should have stood, then McCarthy could have challenged whether or not it was a fumble.
Just dumbness all around, NFL rules make no sense.
Exactly. That's why Fox was so upset. The challenge was the spot. GB should have had to challenge the fumble.
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That’s not the NFL rule. The rule is that everything is reviewed when either team challenges.
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That’s not the NFL rule. The rule is that everything is reviewed when either team challenges.
Yeah. And it should. Otherwise what do you do there? He wasn’t out of bounds so the spot WAS wrong. So where should the ball be placed in this case? When he clearly fumbled the ball out of bounds in the end zone.
I guess you can say, “the runner was not out of bounds and the ball hit the pileon. It is a touchdown Chicago.” In which case, the touchdown is automatically reviewed anyways. And then it gets overturned anyways because he fumbled the ball. So the Packers wouldn’t use a challenge, the Bears wouldn’t lose a challenge, and it would be Packers ball at the 20, just like it was.
Not sure there’s much there to complain about.
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That’s not the NFL rule. The rule is that everything is reviewed when either team challenges.
When did that change? It hasn't always been the case.
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That’s not the NFL rule. The rule is that everything is reviewed when either team challenges.
Yes and no. The order of what happened matters, and what the ruling on the field originally was.
Ruling on the field was that he was out of bounds. If it was a scoring play, then yes, everything is on the table. It was NOT a scoring play. There is not indisputable evidence to overturn the original call, there simply is no way to dispute it. Therefore, there is secondarily zero indisputable visual evidence to rule he fumbled prior to stepping out. You have to clearly rule overturn the first to make the second relevant, no matter who would challenge it.
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From an ESPN article...
"All reviewable aspects of the play may be examined and are subject to reversal, even if not identified in a coach’s challenge or if not the specific reason for a replay official’s request for review."
As is the norm with the NFL, bad rule that appears to have been applied correctly.
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From an ESPN article...
"All reviewable aspects of the play may be examined and are subject to reversal, even if not identified in a coach’s challenge or if not the specific reason for a replay official’s request for review."
As is the norm with the NFL, bad rule that appears to have been applied correctly.
Why is it a bad rule? The purpose of replays is to get the call correct. They got the call correct. Fox should never have challenged that play. That was a moronic thing for him to do.
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Yes and no. The order of what happened matters, and what the ruling on the field originally was.
Ruling on the field was that he was out of bounds. If it was a scoring play, then yes, everything is on the table. It was NOT a scoring play. There is not indisputable evidence to overturn the original call, there simply is no way to dispute it. Therefore, there is secondarily zero indisputable visual evidence to rule he fumbled prior to stepping out. You have to clearly rule overturn the first to make the second relevant, no matter who would challenge it.
From an ESPN article...
"All reviewable aspects of the play may be examined and are subject to reversal, even if not identified in a coach’s challenge or if not the specific reason for a replay official’s request for review."
As is the norm with the NFL, bad rule that appears to have been applied correctly.
So again, how do you want them to handle that play? He clearly wasn’t out of bounds, which means the spot is wrong, which means the challenge was successful. But what would you like the result of that play to be then? Where do you spot the ball? He obviously fumbled the ball and it hit the pileon. Do you want to place it where he lost control of the ball, even though he was never down? Call it a touchdown since the ball hit the pileon and you’re only reviewing the spot and not a fumble? Okay, call it a touchdown. So it goes to review automatically and they call it a fumble, Packers ball at the 20 anyways.
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So again, how do you want them to handle that play? He clearly wasn’t out of bounds, which means the spot is wrong, which means the challenge was successful. But what would you like the result of that play to be then? Where do you spot the ball? He obviously fumbled the ball and it hit the pileon. Do you want to place it where he lost control of the ball, even though he was never down? Call it a touchdown since the ball hit the pileon and you’re only reviewing the spot and not a fumble? Okay, call it a touchdown. So it goes to review automatically and they call it a fumble, Packers ball at the 20 anyways.
This isn't hard to understand...
"The original ruling on the field stands."
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This isn't hard to understand...
"The original ruling on the field stands."
The original ruling was wrong. Why create another delay when the answer is available right there?
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This isn't hard to understand...
"The original ruling on the field stands."
So the wrong call should stand.
Fox challenged whether the runner was out of bounds before reaching the end zone. He was not out of bounds. So you have to overturn the ruling on the field.
He stayed in bounds, and fumbled out of bounds. Touchback is the correct call.
For all you know the call on the field was that he fumbled out of bounds but the ball hit the ground before hitting the pylon, so he was out of bounds short of the end zone. Upon review, the ball hit the pylon first..touchback.
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It's not a bad rule.
The alternatives would be either another challenge and longer delay, or for the officials to see clear evidence of an erroneous call and ignore it. Either would be worse than what happened in this instance.
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This isn't hard to understand...
"The original ruling on the field stands."
Huh? The original ruling on the field wasn’t right. So why would it stand? Fox was right, the placement of the ball was wrong, there was indisputable video evidence. So it is hard to understand. Very confusing why they would go with that when the spot was, in fact, wrong.
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The original ruling was wrong. Why create another delay when the answer is available right there?
I guess I'll agree with Dean Blandino that the ruling on the field should have stood.
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So the wrong call should stand.
Fox challenged whether the runner was out of bounds before reaching the end zone. He was not out of bounds. So you have to overturn the ruling on the field.
He stayed in bounds, and fumbled out of bounds. Touchback is the correct call.
For all you know the call on the field was that he fumbled out of bounds but the ball hit the ground before hitting the pylon, so he was out of bounds short of the end zone. Upon review, the ball hit the pylon first..touchback.
Jesus...the ruling on the field was out of bounds at the 3.
Check out Blandino's explanation on Twitter.
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Huh? The original ruling on the field wasn’t right. So why would it stand? Fox was right, the placement of the ball was wrong, there was indisputable video evidence. So it is hard to understand. Very confusing why they would go with that when the spot was, in fact, wrong.
I'm done arguing about this, it's not that hard to keep the call, as Blandino clearly pointed out.
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Butch Jones is free to replace John Fox.
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I read what he said. I thought he was saying that he was out prior to him fumbling. He was not questioning if the entire play can be reviewed.
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I'm done arguing about this, it's not that hard to keep the call, as Blandino clearly pointed out.
That is fine. You have it wrong. Fox challenged the spot of the ball, the spot was wrong and there was clear and convincing evidence to support it, so your solution is to see that the challenge was a good challenge and the spot was wrong but to keep that wrong call. Why you would do that is confusing, no matter what you want to say.
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Time for the second half of the biannual posts. Bears down.
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Worst loss since the Bears gave up 54 to Philly with a chance to clinch the division. Completely unacceptable to lose this game. Adios, Foxy.
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That is fine. You have it wrong. Fox challenged the spot of the ball, the spot was wrong and there was clear and convincing evidence to support it, so your solution is to see that the challenge was a good challenge and the spot was wrong but to keep that wrong call. Why you would do that is confusing, no matter what you want to say.
Right, NFL rules expert Dean Blandino and I are both wrong, and you're absolutely right.
My bad.
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Right, NFL rules expert Dean Blandino and I are both wrong, and you're absolutely right.
My bad.
Are you unfamiliar with wades? ;)
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Worst loss since the Bears gave up 54 to Philly with a chance to clinch the division. Completely unacceptable to lose this game. Adios, Foxy.
Trubisky - the poor man's Matt Barkley.
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Right, NFL rules expert Dean Blandino and I are both wrong, and you're absolutely right.
My bad.
And the NFL referees, who went and watched the replay and made the call, and I, and 4+ other posters on here, are all wrong and you're absolutely right.
My bad.
We get it. You're the local NFL expert, worked in the Bears front office, etc. You're wrong here though. It's okay, it happens. But your word isn't Gospel. You also wanted to put a million dollars down on the Jets having the worst record in the NFL this year and gawked at anybody who even suggested that some horrible teams could take 1 bad injury to one of their few good players and accidentally win 1 or 2 games and be worse.
You're a smart NFL guy. But your solution to the problem of a team correctly challenging a play but having it burn them as a result as leaving the incorrectly called, challenged play as that incorrect call is absurd and it's confusing why they would ever do that. Even if MerritsMustache wants to play some passive aggressive crap as a response. You have it wrong.
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The Bears still suck! Go Packers!
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And the NFL referees, who went and watched the replay and made the call, and I, and 4+ other posters on here, are all wrong and you're absolutely right.
My bad.
We get it. You're the local NFL expert, worked in the Bears front office, etc. You're wrong here though. It's okay, it happens. But your word isn't Gospel. You also wanted to put a million dollars down on the Jets having the worst record in the NFL this year and gawked at anybody who even suggested that some horrible teams could take 1 bad injury to one of their few good players and accidentally win 1 or 2 games and be worse.
You're a smart NFL guy. But your solution to the problem of a team correctly challenging a play but having it burn them as a result as leaving the incorrectly called, challenged play as that incorrect call is absurd and it's confusing why they would ever do that. Even if MerritsMustache wants to play some passive aggressive crap as a response. You have it wrong.
I, unlike you, will admit when I'm wrong. I've called myself out multiple times, and put my money where my mouth is by donating to charity when I was wrong.
The former head of officiating said it was a bad call. I don't know what else you want. If you don't like my football thoughts, hit ignore.
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I read what he said. I thought he was saying that he was out prior to him fumbling. He was not questioning if the entire play can be reviewed.
That was my take as well. His opinion was that it was not definitive that he didn't touch the ball with his left foot out of bounds.
The trained officials on the field determined that the ball hit the pylon before his left foot went out of bounds. It was close, but my view of it on all the replays was the same. Ball hit the pylon before any part of his body was out of bounds.
So fumble.
Blandino did not disagree with them at all for reviewing the entire play.
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I, unlike you, will admit when I'm wrong. I've called myself out multiple times, and put my money where my mouth is by donating to charity when I was wrong.
The former head of officiating said it was a bad call. I don't know what else you want. If you don't like my football thoughts, hit ignore.
I have no issue admitting when I'm wrong. I'm not wrong here. I'm glad the former head of officials agrees with you. The current officials on the field and in the replay center that make calls on the field watched the play and disagree with both of you.
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I have no issue admitting when I'm wrong. I'm not wrong here.
;)
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I, unlike you, will admit when I'm wrong. I've called myself out multiple times, and put my money where my mouth is by donating to charity when I was wrong.
The former head of officiating said it was a bad call. I don't know what else you want. If you don't like my football thoughts, hit ignore.
He said it was a bad call, but not for the reason you said it was a bad call that got this conversation started. He simply said Howard should have been called out of bounds before losing possession. Your complaint was that the officials should not have been allowed to rule on possession because that's not what was challenged.
So, you're right that Blandino disagreed with the call, and wrong that his disagreement backs your position.
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He said it was a bad call, but not for the reason you said it was a bad call that got this conversation started. He simply said Howard should have been called out of bounds before losing possession. Your complaint was that the officials should not have been allowed to rule on possession because that's not what was challenged.
So, you're right that Blandino disagreed with the call, and wrong that his disagreement backs your position.
I understand, and Sultan is right that you can examine everything on both scoring and non scoring plays. I thought it mattered what Fox challenged specifically, but I was wrong.
However, what I was getting at is if the call on the field was out at the 3, any fumble there after doesn't matter, it's meaningless. If there's not visual evidence to overturn the initial call, then thereafter ceases to have occurred.
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I just saw the replay having not seen the game live. Really pretty easy call on the fumble touchback. In the first replay one can see that the runner remained in bounds and didn't touch the ground until such time as the ball touched the pylon. Okay, from that set of facts you can deduce that if the runner loses control prior to the ball touching the pylon it's a touchback as using multiple angles to form a composite ruling is allowed. Clearly he lost control in the cross field view. There was even a moment where neither hand was on the ball. Like I said, easy call.
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Lions tried for 3 quarters to get Cleveland their first win. Pulled away late, but not aesthetically pleasing.
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The fumble out of the end zone touchback is a terrible rule anyway
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The fumble out of the end zone touchback is a terrible rule anyway
It truly is. Not only is a team punished for advancing the ball further, but it is punished harshly by losing possession.
IMO, it should be the offense's ball where the fumble took place, which solves both issues.
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I thought Hundley played well. Bears should have kept blitzing, but Hundley made some real nice throws when he had to. Pack o-line deserves game balls.
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49'ers out of the owen column. Any time Jerra's cowboys lose, it is a good day. That guy has done the impossible. Made me feel sympathy for the Roger.
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49'ers out of the owen column. Any time Jerra's cowboys lose, it is a good day. That guy has done the impossible. Made me feel sympathy for the Roger.
I hope Roger wins this thing, the league will continue to be a shell of itself if he stays in power. Jerry knows it because he helped build it and he sees what a joke Roger is.
(https://cdn.barstoolsports.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/08/gododld.jpg)
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Hey, we agree on something. Roger is a clown. I just think Jerra is a bigger one.
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Skol Vikings we are the best.
Case was FIRING today.
#ShieldTheNorth
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Who name’s der kid, Case, hey?
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Ma and pa Keenum
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Jones voted to extend Goodell's contract in May - all the owners did. This was after the initial round of protests and TV ratings started to slip. It was after he laughably executed his power during deflate-gate. Simply put, Goodell is no different now than he was six months ago.
However it was before Goodell suspended Ezekiel Elliot. The transparency of Jones' motivations are pretty clear.
And what's funny is that I (and many other here) have been saying he's been incompetent for years. Dating back before the Ray Rice video issue.
But you know which Scooper was one of his biggest defenders? Care to guess?
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=41989.msg568605#msg568605
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Oh, it is clear that EE is Jerra's inspiration.
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Jones voted to extend Goodell's contract in May - all the owners did. This was after the initial round of protests and TV ratings started to slip. It was after he laughably executed his power during deflate-gate. Simply put, Goodell is no different now than he was six months ago.
However it was before Goodell suspended Ezekiel Elliot. The transparency of Jones' motivations are pretty clear.
And what's funny is that I (and many other here) have been saying he's been incompetent for years. Dating back before the Ray Rice video issue.
But you know which Scooper was one of his biggest defenders? Care to guess?
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=41989.msg568605#msg568605
a lot has happened in the almost 4 years since that evaluation was made...A LOT ! there are some here, whom i assume were married and divorced within that time frame-and that was for better or worse eyn"er?so you're gonna hold someone to their word based on a 4 year gap? what if it came up that rodger dodger and weinersteens were "drinkin buds" ?
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a lot has happened in the almost 4 years since that evaluation was made...A LOT ! there are some here, whom i assume were married and divorced within that time frame-and that was for better or worse eyn"er?so you're gonna hold someone to their word based on a 4 year gap? what if it came up that rodger dodger and weinersteens were "drinkin buds" ?
I'm sure Chicos is glad that you continuously defend his honor, even though your efforts are misplaced.
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a lot has happened in the almost 4 years since that evaluation was made...A LOT ! there are some here, whom i assume were married and divorced within that time frame-and that was for better or worse eyn"er?so you're gonna hold someone to their word based on a 4 year gap? what if it came up that rodger dodger and weinersteens were "drinkin buds" ?
4 years ago, whenever you posted, we wondered who the new guy with the grammar problem was. Now we know.
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Fookin’ Marty caught a ball. Must be dat da seafood in Boston has mysterious rotator cuff heelin’ powers, ai na?
#fraud
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4 years ago, whenever you posted, we wondered who the new guy with the grammar problem was. Now we know.
Yup. Lol.
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Fookin’ Marty caught a ball. Must be dat da seafood in Boston has mysterious rotator cuff heelin’ powers, ai na?
#fraud
So let me get this straight. Marty was injured and he didn't trust the GB staff, who supposedly told him to play through it. He wanted to get surgery, and got 3 additional opinions that confirmed it was the best choice.
He's released. Goes to NE, and immediately the need for surgery is gone and he is playing ball again...healthy as an ox.
If I was GB I would also look into tampering charges (NE-cheaters) and recoup the signing bonus.
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The fumble out of the end zone touchback is a terrible rule anyway
Now this is absolutely a true statement. Incredibly dumb rule and this play highlights why.
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Thru McKenzie under da bus two. Takin’ da Ryan Braun approach ‘cuz it worked out sew well four ‘im, hey?
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Yup. Lol.
yup, that was a good one, but you forgot the rotf, i can't believe i just wet myself part though
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I just saw the replay having not seen the game live. Really pretty easy call on the fumble touchback. In the first replay one can see that the runner remained in bounds and didn't touch the ground until such time as the ball touched the pylon. Okay, from that set of facts you can deduce that if the runner loses control prior to the ball touching the pylon it's a touchback as using multiple angles to form a composite ruling is allowed. Clearly he lost control in the cross field view. There was even a moment where neither hand was on the ball. Like I said, easy call.
His toe was out of bounds and his knee was down well before he hit the pylon. Yes, the ball was loose in his hands but he was contacting the ball while out of bounds. You're right it was an easy call. Unfortunately, they got it wrong.
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His toe was out of bounds and his knee was down well before he hit the pylon. Yes, the ball was loose in his hands but he was contacting the ball while out of bounds. You're right it was an easy call. Unfortunately, they got it wrong.
Life's rough with those Blue and Orange glasses on. :)
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His toe was out of bounds and his knee was down well before he hit the pylon. Yes, the ball was loose in his hands but he was contacting the ball while out of bounds. You're right it was an easy call. Unfortunately, they got it wrong.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydailynews.com/amp/sports/football/john-fox-td-challenge-results-bears-turnover-article-1.3628405
It’s clear as day that his knee is not touching the ground and the ball is already loose. From a different article, even Cunningham apparently admitted it was the right call.
“Cunningham was initially just as shocked as Fox. At first, he believed that his knee hadn’t touched the ground in diving for the pylon, and he didn’t even ponder the idea of a touchback. Later, he admitted in the postgame interview that the replay officials did make the right call.
‘I’m just thinking they’re going to review and overturn it, because I’m feeling like I got in,’ Cunningham said. ‘I’m ready to celebrate and run down and cover a kickoff. But it was unfortunate how it went.’”
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Life's rough with those Blue and Orange glasses on. :)
You apparently need glasses if you can't see that he was OOB and in contact with the ball!
Ohh! Dad joke burn! ;)
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Rumor mill churning that Fox is out, possibly as soon as Monday.
The timing would make sense. He was never really Pace's guy so why not dump him at a low point instead of giving him a chance to win a few down the stretch.
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Rumor mill churning that Fox is out, possibly as soon as Monday.
The timing would make sense. He was never really Pace's guy so why not dump him at a low point instead of giving him a chance to win a few down the stretch.
Wonder if Gase would come back.
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Trubisky - the poor man's Matt Barkley.
This is all kinds of dumb.
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Ruh Roh Jerry...
https://www.barstoolsports.com/newyork/the-nfl-owners-reportedly-have-a-plan-in-place-to-force-jerry-jones-to-sell-the-dallas-franchise-if-jones-becomes-a-problem-for-them
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Ruh Roh Jerry...
https://www.barstoolsports.com/newyork/the-nfl-owners-reportedly-have-a-plan-in-place-to-force-jerry-jones-to-sell-the-dallas-franchise-if-jones-becomes-a-problem-for-them
Trump to Dallas
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Ruh Roh Jerry...
https://www.barstoolsports.com/newyork/the-nfl-owners-reportedly-have-a-plan-in-place-to-force-jerry-jones-to-sell-the-dallas-franchise-if-jones-becomes-a-problem-for-them
Paging Mark Cuban. Please come to the courtesy phone in Arlington.
Cowboys are worth almost $5B, so he doesn't quite have the juice on his own, but he could easily head up a consortium and kick in 500-1B. However, he's been outspoken about the NFL's problems so he may stay away. Unless he feels he has a solution he'd want to push.
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Paging Mark Cuban. Please come to the courtesy phone in Arlington.
Cowboys are worth almost $5B, so he doesn't quite have the juice on his own, but he could easily head up a consortium and kick in 500-1B. However, he's been outspoken about the NFL's problems so he may stay away. Unless he feels he has a solution he'd want to push.
Wouldn't it be easier just for him to run for public office
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Ruh Roh Jerry...
https://www.barstoolsports.com/newyork/the-nfl-owners-reportedly-have-a-plan-in-place-to-force-jerry-jones-to-sell-the-dallas-franchise-if-jones-becomes-a-problem-for-them
Owners: We see your bluff and we raise you a bluff of our own.
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/714a97c9de4598894c4eb717580a6230/tumblr_otfz03JAxX1qmob6ro1_500.gif)
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Jerry can buy a share in the Packers and become a Packers owner for $200!
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This won't happen, but the real nuclear option would be for Jerry to somehow start his own league. I have no idea if he or the NFL actually owns the name of the Dallas Cowboys, but if Jerry found a few partners, and was able to retain the name of the Dallas Cowboys, he'd be the one guy/team with the pull to start his own alternative league to the NFL.
It's a billion to one shot, and I have zero knowledge of how it would get to that point or even if it was legally possible, but if someone was going to try to do it, it'd be him.
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This supposedly is being posted quite a bit on social media re: the Bears
(https://www.mozilla.org/media/img/logos/firefox/logo-wordmark-large.f1831564f64e.png)
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Trump to Dallas
The NFL would never, ever allow the Creep to own an NFL team.
Maybe the Lingerie League, so he could strategically place a two-way mirror to watch naked girls shower after the game.
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The NFL would never, ever allow the Creep to own an NFL team.
Maybe the Lingerie League, so he could strategically place a two-way mirror to watch naked girls shower after the game.
rocky_warrior
Global Moderator
All American
*****
WTF is wrong with you people?
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Ah, Jay Cutler ... the gift that keeps on giving!
The Panthers had dominated the first half but led only 10-7 when Jay and the Dolphins got the ball on their 20 with 47 seconds left. I was hoping Gase would get greedy and tell his boy to try to put points on the board. Sure enough, that's what they did ... and Cutler made a horrible pass that Kuechly intercepted.
Four plays later, my lads had a 10-point lead. And when the Panthers opened the second half with a 78-yard TD drive, it was all but over.
As is often the case, Cutler's stats looked OK: 22-37-213-2-1. But also as has so often been the case during his mediocre career, that "1" was a killer. And of course, his stats were bolstered by garbage-time yards and a meaningless TD pass.
The Dolphins couldn't stop the Panthers, so my boyz probably would have won even if Cutler had been good. Still, they had a chance to extend several drives but Cutler misfired often on 3rd down. And he can't even blame his line, as they did a good job blocking against a very good Panthers defense.
So I'll just wrap this up by saying:
Thanks, Jay Cutler!
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rocky_warrior
Global Moderator
All American
*****
WTF is wrong with you people?
A number of things. But at least I am allowed in malls in Gadsden.
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rocky_warrior
Global Moderator
All American
*****
WTF is wrong with you people?
Did you wonder WTF was wrong with the mods when the already multiply-banned chicos was making political posts just yesterday? How about when you were making your political posts?
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Did you wonder WTF was wrong with the mods when the already multiply-banned chicos was making political posts just yesterday? How about when you were making your political posts?
That's actually a quote from Rocky as he shut down the UCLA thread because certain folks were making sexual assault about politics.
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Ah, Jay Cutler ... the gift that keeps on giving!
The Panthers had dominated the first half but led only 10-7 when Jay and the Dolphins got the ball on their 20 with 47 seconds left. I was hoping Gase would get greedy and tell his boy to try to put points on the board. Sure enough, that's what they did ... and Cutler made a horrible pass that Kuechly intercepted.
Four plays later, my lads had a 10-point lead. And when the Panthers opened the second half with a 78-yard TD drive, it was all but over.
As is often the case, Cutler's stats looked OK: 22-37-213-2-1. But also as has so often been the case during his mediocre career, that "1" was a killer. And of course, his stats were bolstered by garbage-time yards and a meaningless TD pass.
The Dolphins couldn't stop the Panthers, so my boyz probably would have won even if Cutler had been good. Still, they had a chance to extend several drives but Cutler misfired often on 3rd down. And he can't even blame his line, as they did a good job blocking against a very good Panthers defense.
So I'll just wrap this up by saying:
Thanks, Jay Cutler!
Now you know why us Packer fans LOVED Jay.
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Ah, Jay Cutler ... the gift that keeps on giving!
The Panthers had dominated the first half but led only 10-7 when Jay and the Dolphins got the ball on their 20 with 47 seconds left. I was hoping Gase would get greedy and tell his boy to try to put points on the board. Sure enough, that's what they did ... and Cutler made a horrible pass that Kuechly intercepted.
Four plays later, my lads had a 10-point lead. And when the Panthers opened the second half with a 78-yard TD drive, it was all but over.
As is often the case, Cutler's stats looked OK: 22-37-213-2-1. But also as has so often been the case during his mediocre career, that "1" was a killer. And of course, his stats were bolstered by garbage-time yards and a meaningless TD pass.
The Dolphins couldn't stop the Panthers, so my boyz probably would have won even if Cutler had been good. Still, they had a chance to extend several drives but Cutler misfired often on 3rd down. And he can't even blame his line, as they did a good job blocking against a very good Panthers defense.
So I'll just wrap this up by saying:
Thanks, Jay Cutler!
I'll give you that Cutler has thrown some killer INTs (though not as many as his reputation would have you believe) and his career has been largely mediocre. However, this post is, once again, an example of the lazy narrative that has followed Cutler around.
Yes, he threw a bad INT late in the 1st half. Was it a "killer" INT? Hardly. The Miami D allowed 548 yards of offense and in the 2nd half, they forced zero punts and allowed TD drives of 78, 48, 87 and 83 yards. I suppose that without Kuechly's INT, none of that would have happened, huh?
Also, Cutler often misfired on third down? He actually went 4-7 for 54 yards on 3rd downs, picking up 3 firsts. Those numbers would have been better but he had a 16-yard completion for a first wiped out because Tunsil didn't line up on the actual LOS.
Has Cutler lived up to his potential? Absolutely not! He's an incredible talent who's had an average NFL career. That, however, doesn't mean that he's as bad as so many lazy fans and writers would lead you to believe.
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Has Cutler lived up to his potential? Absolutely not! He's an incredible talent who's had an average NFL career. That, however, doesn't mean that he's as bad as so many lazy fans and writers would lead you to believe.
He is not an incredible talent. He has one above average skill. He can throw the ball hard.
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I'll give you that Cutler has thrown some killer INTs (though not as many as his reputation would have you believe) and his career has been largely mediocre. However, this post is, once again, an example of the lazy narrative that has followed Cutler around.
Yes, he threw a bad INT late in the 1st half. Was it a "killer" INT? Hardly. The Miami D allowed 548 yards of offense and in the 2nd half, they forced zero punts and allowed TD drives of 78, 48, 87 and 83 yards. I suppose that without Kuechly's INT, none of that would have happened, huh?
Also, Cutler often misfired on third down? He actually went 4-7 for 54 yards on 3rd downs, picking up 3 firsts. Those numbers would have been better but he had a 16-yard completion for a first wiped out because Tunsil didn't line up on the actual LOS.
Has Cutler lived up to his potential? Absolutely not! He's an incredible talent who's had an average NFL career. That, however, doesn't mean that he's as bad as so many lazy fans and writers would lead you to believe.
Good, bad, mediocre, whatever. He's quite often the best thing that can happen to an opponent. Having a quarterback who does not understand the value of having possession of the ball is the worst thing that can happen to an NFL team. Nobody understands this less than Jay Cutler.
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I'll give you that Cutler has thrown some killer INTs (though not as many as his reputation would have you believe) and his career has been largely mediocre. However, this post is, once again, an example of the lazy narrative that has followed Cutler around.
Yes, he threw a bad INT late in the 1st half. Was it a "killer" INT? Hardly. The Miami D allowed 548 yards of offense and in the 2nd half, they forced zero punts and allowed TD drives of 78, 48, 87 and 83 yards. I suppose that without Kuechly's INT, none of that would have happened, huh?
Also, Cutler often misfired on third down? He actually went 4-7 for 54 yards on 3rd downs, picking up 3 firsts. Those numbers would have been better but he had a 16-yard completion for a first wiped out because Tunsil didn't line up on the actual LOS.
Has Cutler lived up to his potential? Absolutely not! He's an incredible talent who's had an average NFL career. That, however, doesn't mean that he's as bad as so many lazy fans and writers would lead you to believe.
You and I are going to have different definitions of "killer."
The Panthers totally dominated the first 1 1/2 quarters of the game but had only a 10-0 lead to show for it. And right after taking the 10-0 lead, they gave up a long TD drive to the Dolphins; Cutler, in full "good-Jay" mode, did a nice job leading that drive.
Finally playing decently, the Dolphins D forced the Panthers to punt on their next possession. For the first time all game, the Dolphins had the momentum.
One play later ... a typical Jay, piece of crap, stupid decision, thrown into tight coverage, backbone-breaking INT. Panthers get a TD right before the half, get the 2nd half KO and score again, and the game is over.
In my view, that's absolutely a killer INT.
Jay made some nice passes during a couple of drives, including one in garbage time. That's the Cutler Tease. That's why the Dolphins were willing to throw $10 million at him when nobody else was willing to pay him big bucks. That's why the Bears threw the bank vault at him prior to that.
As for his career ... I'd posit that somebody with "incredible talent" who largely wastes it over the span of a mediocre career is a lot worse than a Jonathan Quinn or a Henry Burris who simply sucks.
BTW, I didn't say Jay was "bad." I said he's the gift that keeps on giving. Nothing you said here changes my mind about that!
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My Dolphins have been on nat'l TV four times this year. Combined score in those games: 132 - 45. Womp womp.
Cutler's pick before half was a backbreaker, given how Mia was struggling to stay in the game. The defense played pretty well for how much they were on the field in the first half, but giving away 7 pts there, combined with the TD after halftime effectively ended the game on the ole Belichick swing.
While that throw was bad, though, Cutler hasn't been the reason the Dolphins are bad - but he's not making them better, either. He's pretty much just another guy out of 11. It has the feel that Gase has tried to limit Cutler's mistakes so much, that he's taken the air out of the ball. I'd rather go down in a flaming ball of Smokin' Jay glory hucking it deep to Stills and Parker than all this.
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Did you wonder WTF was wrong with the mods when the already multiply-banned chicos was making political posts just yesterday? How about when you were making your political posts?
If by "making political posts" you mean "defending a pedophile", then yeah.
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Now you know why us Packer fans LOVED Jay.
The devastating blow was dealt on Thursday, and a cold, somber weekend ensued statewide. Fresh air failed to revive. Beer didn’t taste as satisfying. The laughter of babies sounded hollow. It’s all because of one man. After leading his Bears to a 2-11 record against the Packers, Thursday, March 9 saw the release of quarterback Jay Cutler. Fans still need time to grieve in Green Bay.
https://shepherdexpress.com/sports/packers/wisconsin-s-sad-farewell-jay-cutler/
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The devastating blow was dealt on Thursday, and a cold, somber weekend ensued statewide. Fresh air failed to revive. Beer didn’t taste as satisfying. The laughter of babies sounded hollow. It’s all because of one man. After leading his Bears to a 2-11 record against the Packers, Thursday, March 9 saw the release of quarterback Jay Cutler. Fans still need time to grieve in Green Bay.
https://shepherdexpress.com/sports/packers/wisconsin-s-sad-farewell-jay-cutler/
Yet, often overlooked is the fact that if Cutler doesn't tear his MCL, there's a chance that Rodgers has zero rings. No, it's not a huge chance but a healthy Cutler would have given the Bears a better shot than Todd Collins or Caleb Hanie ;)
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Yet, often overlooked is the fact that if Cutler doesn't tear his MCL, there's a chance that Rodgers has zero rings. No, it's not a huge chance but a healthy Cutler would have given the Bears a better shot than Todd Collins or Caleb Hanie ;)
Definitely a better chance than Hanie or Collins, but the Bears were down 14-0 at half WITH Cutler. So, I doubt it makes a difference.
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Definitely a better chance than Hanie or Collins, but the Bears were down 14-0 at half WITH Cutler. So, I doubt it makes a difference.
Yeah. Of the 3 quarterbacks to take snaps for the Bears that game Jay Cutler had the lowest QB rating of them all. 1 fumble, 1 interception, 80 yards on 14 pass attempts, a completion percentage well under 50%. But we know that Jay Cutler always dominated the Packers, so I'm sure they would've had a great chance of coming back from down 14 in that second half.
Always good to get a laugh on a Tuesday afternoon.
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Yeah. Of the 3 quarterbacks to take snaps for the Bears that game Jay Cutler had the lowest QB rating of them all. 1 fumble, 1 interception, 80 yards on 14 pass attempts, a completion percentage well under 50%. But we know that Jay Cutler always dominated the Packers, so I'm sure they would've had a great chance of coming back from down 14 in that second half.
Always good to get a laugh on a Tuesday afternoon.
It's hard to play worse than Todd Collins did in that game, but Jay sure gave it the ol' college try
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Yeah. Of the 3 quarterbacks to take snaps for the Bears that game Jay Cutler had the lowest QB rating of them all. 1 fumble, 1 interception, 80 yards on 14 pass attempts, a completion percentage well under 50%. But we know that Jay Cutler always dominated the Packers, so I'm sure they would've had a great chance of coming back from down 14 in that second half.
Always good to get a laugh on a Tuesday afternoon.
1) The Packers' offense was shutout in the 2nd half so it's not completely unheard of.
2) Cutler was injured much earlier than when he finally came out.
3) Caleb Hanie had the best QB rating in the game (including Rodgers) so he must have been the best QB that day. We all know that QB Rating trumps all else. If only the Bears had started him!
4) My statement was largely tongue-in-cheek but I knew you'd respond. Your response was actually pretty subdued for you though. Perhaps you're finally maturing!
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1) The Packers' offense was shutout in the 2nd half so it's not completely unheard of.
2) Cutler was injured much earlier than when he finally came out.
3) Caleb Hanie had the best QB rating in the game (including Rodgers) so he must have been the best QB that day. We all know that QB Rating trumps all else. If only the Bears had started him!
4) My statement was largely tongue-in-cheek but I knew you'd respond. Your response was actually pretty subdued for you though. Perhaps you're finally maturing!
C'mon guys, everyone knows QBR doesn't matter. Only QB wins. Absent that, GRIT
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C'mon guys, everyone knows QBR doesn't matter. Only QB wins. Absent that, GRIT
Yeah. QB rating doesn't matter/isn't a good indicator of how a QB played. That's a new one...
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Yeah. QB rating doesn't matter/isn't a good indicator of how a QB played. That's a new one...
Pretty sure that post was teal
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Pretty sure that post was teal
I know. He was poking at MM suggesting that looking at QB ratings was a bad idea. Rodgers played a bad game that day. Thankfully the starting quarterback he was going up against was Jay Cutler.
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Lions vs Bears. It feels like the kind of games the Lions will lose. They NEED to win it. They NEED to take care of a division foe that is struggling if they want to get a wild card berth. Because they NEED to win it, I expect a large egg to be laid.
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https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/nfl/nfl-owners-reportedly-told-jerry-jones-to-end-battle-against-roger-goodell/vi-BBEYzxC
NFL sends Jerra a cease and desist order in regards to his public statements about the commissioner. This should be fun. Now that Papa Johns has apologized to protesters and flipped off the Nazi's, I may order one and sit back and watch.
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https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/nfl/nfl-owners-reportedly-told-jerry-jones-to-end-battle-against-roger-goodell/vi-BBEYzxC
NFL sends Jerra a cease and desist order in regards to his public statements about the commissioner. This should be fun. Now that Papa Johns has apologized to protesters and flipped off the Nazi's, I may order one and sit back and watch.
Don't threaten to do things you're going to regret. I ordered it for the fist time last week for our end of year baseball party and I forgot how bad fast food pizza is. Thankfully I also ordered some pies from a local shoppe for the adults.
The JJ situation is going to be fun to watch though.
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Good ole Jerra overplayed his hand a little, aiina?
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Good ole Jerra overplayed his hand a little, aiina?
Yep. Its funny, Roger needs to go, but if his contract extension is what finally breaks Jerry's hegemony over the league, then perhaps something positive can be taken from the Goodell era.
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Wait. I thought Papa and Jerry were all upset about the (still ongoing) protests?
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Papa apologized to the protestors and rejected the neo Nazi's that had embraced their original stance.
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Don't threaten to do things you're going to regret. I ordered it for the fist time last week for our end of year baseball party and I forgot how bad fast food pizza is. Thankfully I also ordered some pies from a local shoppe for the adults.
The JJ situation is going to be fun to watch though.
Papa John's is truly abhorrent pizza.
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Good ole Jerra overplayed his hand a little, aiina?
I'll say:
The Associated Press has obtained a letter sent by the NFL to Jerry Jones' attorney accusing the Dallas Cowboys owner of ''conduct detrimental to the league's best interests'' over his objection to a contract extension for Commissioner Roger Goodell.
''Your client's antics, whatever their motivation, are damaging the league and reflect conduct detrimental to the league's best interests,'' the letter said.
Jones has said he has issues with compensation in the deal, along with concerns about the escalation of player protests involving the national anthem and how the league has handled them. He also has suggested that owners should revisit the power that the position wields.
The letter confirmed that Jones was removed as a non-voting member of the compensation committee after threatening to sue.
Jones, who was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in August, was accused of sharing with all the owners an outdated document related to the negotiations with Goodell.
''Someone who is genuinely concerned 'that the owners know the truth about the negotiations' would not deliberately distribute such an outdated document, particularly when he has in his possession drafts that are current and accurately reflect the actual state of negotiations, or threaten to sue the league and its owners if he does not get his way,'' the letter said.
https://sports.yahoo.com/feud-grows-between-nfl-cowboys-jerry-jones-over-024929316--nfl.html
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The thing is, Jerry has a point about The Commish's compensation, power and general ineptitude needing to be looked at. His points are being overshadowed, however, because his taking exception to these factors seemingly has more to do with Zeke's suspension than anything else.
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I actually agree that Roger is a large part of the problem. But so is Jerra. It is like having two heels square off in the WWE.
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Papa John's is truly abhorrent pizza.
This is the pizza the neo-nazis deserve.
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Wait. Isn't this all about the protests?
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With a 10-4 record, the Detroit Pistons have been one of the surprising teams in the NBA. They are playing in a much-hyped new arena, with all the whistles and bells.
And yet only one team (Atlanta) has lower attendance as a percentage of seats sold, and only five have lower average attendance.
Must be those NFL anthem protesters.
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The thing is, Jerry has a point about The Commish's compensation, power and general ineptitude needing to be looked at. His points are being overshadowed, however, because his taking exception to these factors seemingly has more to do with Zeke's suspension than anything else.
No question. But, his point is completely hollow far beyond the self-serving nature of his issues with the Zeke suspension.
Who's the most powerful owner? Jerry.
Who countless times over the past 25 years has swayed the other owners to his side or position? Jerry.
Who determined the compensation and power for The Commish? The owners.
What group has consistently look the other way or supported the league office no matter the ineptitude? The owners.
The owners did this to themselves, led by their leader, Jerry. The NFL needs new leadership. Roger needs to go and Jerry's hegemony needs to end.
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With a 10-4 record, the Detroit Pistons have been one of the surprising teams in the NBA. They are playing in a much-hyped new arena, with all the whistles and bells.
And yet only one team (Atlanta) has lower attendance as a percentage of seats sold, and only five have lower average attendance.
Must be those NFL anthem protesters.
Bad example. The Red Wings are drawing poorly as well and SVG is unafraid to make his politics known. They are playing decent basketball, however.
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With a 10-4 record, the Detroit Pistons have been one of the surprising teams in the NBA. They are playing in a much-hyped new arena, with all the whistles and bells.
And yet only one team (Atlanta) has lower attendance as a percentage of seats sold, and only five have lower average attendance.
Must be those NFL anthem protesters.
1) The Pistons O/U was 38.5 so expectations were meh and they don't exactly have an exciting young core of players.
2) It's 14 games into the season. If the Pistons continue to be near the top of standings in early 2018, attendance will go up.
3) How much did ticket prices increase? Something worth keeping an eye on for the Bucks' ownership. Although, the Bucks actually do have one of the most exciting players in the NBA.
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No question. But, his point is completely hollow far beyond the self-serving nature of his issues with the Zeke suspension.
Who's the most powerful owner? Jerry.
Who countless times over the past 25 years has swayed the other owners to his side or position? Jerry.
Who determined the compensation and power for The Commish? The owners.
What group has consistently look the other way or supported the league office no matter the ineptitude? The owners.
The owners did this to themselves, led by their leader, Jerry. The NFL needs new leadership. Roger needs to go and Jerry's hegemony needs to end.
This all presumes that the commissioner and the owners are separate entity. They're not.
Every dumb decision, every stupid stance, every obfuscation, lie, money grab Roger makes is done at the behest of the owners. They pay him so well to be the patsy when something they want goes south.
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1) The Pistons O/U was 38.5 so expectations were meh and they don't exactly have an exciting young core of players.
2) It's 14 games into the season. If the Pistons continue to be near the top of standings in early 2018, attendance will go up.
3) How much did ticket prices increase? Something worth keeping an eye on for the Bucks' ownership. Although, the Bucks actually do have one of the most exciting players in the NBA.
Tower would know best, but from what I read, most Piston players and fans are not happy with playing in an arena designed and decorated all for hockey.
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I'm sticking with the anthem protests as the cause.
Also the cause for famine in Africa and the surprising return of whooping cough.
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Tower would know best, but from what I read, most Piston players and fans are not happy with playing in an arena designed and decorated all for hockey.
There is truth there. The Palace was of the same vintage as the Bradley Center. Gores decided to jump on the bandwagon of having all 4 major teams' arenas right next to each other. It isn't a great venue for hoops.
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Drew Magary wrote up a real nice piece on the NFL's troubles and saying it is the NFL's fault.
https://deadspin.com/the-nfl-cant-stick-to-sports-and-its-all-the-nfls-fault-1820504568
"And it is TOTALLY the NFL’s fault that they took it upon themselves to be the vanguard of American values. The NFL wanted to be about more than football, and now they act surprised when extracurricular issues pervade the sport. Look at right now. We’re still in the middle of “Salute to Service month,” which has long been a poorly veiled mix of commerce and nationalism. This comes on the heels of cancer month, which is a wonderful cause but again represents the NFL making a dramatic overreach beyond its skill set. The NFL is actively bad at solving non-football problems, but no one asked them to try. And now they’ve gotten so caught up in all that crap that they now suck at the football part, which is all they should have focused on to begin with."
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Drew Magary wrote up a real nice piece on the NFL's troubles and saying it is the NFL's fault.
https://deadspin.com/the-nfl-cant-stick-to-sports-and-its-all-the-nfls-fault-1820504568
"And it is TOTALLY the NFL’s fault that they took it upon themselves to be the vanguard of American values. The NFL wanted to be about more than football, and now they act surprised when extracurricular issues pervade the sport. Look at right now. We’re still in the middle of “Salute to Service month,” which has long been a poorly veiled mix of commerce and nationalism. This comes on the heels of cancer month, which is a wonderful cause but again represents the NFL making a dramatic overreach beyond its skill set. The NFL is actively bad at solving non-football problems, but no one asked them to try. And now they’ve gotten so caught up in all that crap that they now suck at the football part, which is all they should have focused on to begin with."
What does football have to do with the military?
And, why are my tax $$$ being used to pay for this connection?
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What does football have to do with the military?
And, why are my tax $$$ being used to pay for this connection?
Well, its a great format for Nationalism and propaganda, really.
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Flaccid may be worse than Hundley.
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2nd and 22. Inside 2 minutes, miraculously only down 3, Hundley under center. Run the ball twice, make them take their TOs, give it to them at their 20. Now they’re already in FG range
It’s not that hard. Incredible how stupid Mac can be. Minor miracle you could be down 3-0 at half the way it went. But Mac just throws the ball twice and puts them in FG range by himself.
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Flaccid may be worse than Hundley.
Umm, no.
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Ug.. bears lose 2 first round picks on same play. Brutal.
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Umm, no.
Obviously. I was being sarcastic cuz Flacco is really bad.
Kaep is much better than either of these guys
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I like to think Pace called down to tell Barth to shank that one. Woudla been so Bears like to come back and win that game to screw up their draft stock.
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Never a doubt. ::)
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Lion's run defense is nonexistent since Ngata got hurt. I expect the Vikings to dominate on thanksgiving.
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Worst Packer quarterbacking performance since the days of Blair Kiel.
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2nd and 22. Inside 2 minutes, miraculously only down 3, Hundley under center. Run the ball twice, make them take their TOs, give it to them at their 20. Now they’re already in FG range
It’s not that hard. Incredible how stupid Mac can be. Minor miracle you could be down 3-0 at half the way it went. But Mac just throws the ball twice and puts them in FG range by himself.
He has always lacked common sense.
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4 interceptions. In one half. Jeez
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3 years invested in dat mofo, hey?
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4 interceptions. In one half. Jeez
Good call benching Tyrod.
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Hundley is terrible. No where near an NFL QB. But, Mac may be the worst play caller in the NFL.
Peterman...may have put in the worst QB performance of all time.
One thing is clear though. There is no player more valuable to their team than Rodgers. He GOAT.
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Obviously. I was being sarcastic cuz Flacco is really bad.
Kaep is much better than either of these guys
oh fer 2. how many rings does kaep have? shoot till ya win though ::)
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oh fer 2. how many rings does kaep have? shoot till ya win though ::)
Wait. You really think Brett Hundley is better than Colin Kaepernik? LOL! Okay then... :o
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Rodney “Blockhead” Walker, West Division H.S. Class of ‘68, is bedder dan Kneepernik, hey?
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To argue CK is not worth the headache or that you disagree with his politics is one thing. To argue that Hundley is actually better is laughable and reveals placing an agenda ahead of objectivity.
If you wish to say you would rather lose with Hundley than possibly win with CK, that is an opinion you are entitled to.
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Rodney “Blockhead” Walker, West Division H.S. Class of ‘68, is bedder dan Kneepernik, hey?
No.
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Wait. You really think Brett Hundley is better than Colin Kaepernik? LOL! Okay then... :o
no-i was looking strictly at kaep-flacco.
i think it's pretty obvious hundley isn't even in the same league as flacco. as far as i'm concerned, kaepernick doesn't exist to me and can go su*k it
what is LOL is i think you know most people aren't going to try to defend hundley on any front right
kaep is NOT a better QB than flacco
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They should have signed Kaep immediately after the Viking game. Now the Packers are absolutely f*cked.
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How ‘bout bedder dan Hundley, hey? Blockhead wuz All- City
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They should have signed Kaep immediately after the Viking game. Now the Packers are absolutely f*cked.
Oh yeah, he’d go over like a fart in church in Green Bay, ai na?
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no-i was looking strictly at kaep-flacco.
i think it's pretty obvious hundley isn't even in the same league as flacco. as far as i'm concerned, kaepernick doesn't exist to me and can go su*k it
what is LOL is i think you know most people aren't going to try to defend hundley on any front right
I assumed when you said “oh fer two” you were saying that Jockey was...well, 0 for 2. Meaning he was wrong about both Flacco and Hundley being worse than Kaepernik.
So I guess he was “one fer two?”
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They should have signed Kaep immediately after the Viking game. Now the Packers are absolutely f*cked.
the packers??? curley and vinny are throwing up in their mouths right now
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I assumed when you said “oh fer two” you were saying that Jockey was...well, 0 for 2. Meaning he was wrong about both Flacco and Hundley being worse than Kaepernik.
So I guess he was “one fer two?”
first he said "flaccid" whom i'm assuming he's referring to flacco is worse than kaep then he said kaep is better than both. so i was referring to 2 posts where he was batting a goose egg(sorry goose-no pun inteneded)
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Oh yeah, he’d go over like a fart in church in Green Bay, ai na?
Snowflakes abound up there. And here.
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I assumed when you said “oh fer two” you were saying that Jockey was...well, 0 for 2. Meaning he was wrong about both Flacco and Hundley being worse than Kaepernik.
So I guess he was “one fer two?”
Actually, Wades, I was 2 for 2. I'm guessing you probably agree.
Flacco is one of the 5 worst starting QBs in the NFL right now. I believe the rankings have him at #28.
As I said, Kaep is better than Flacco or Hundley. If some football genius here wants to argue with that - show me some facts that prove otherwise.
They would be the same guys who would rather see GB lose.
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the packers??? curley and vinny are throwing up in their mouths right now
Who cares. He's better than who they have and the goal is to win.
And of course this is a franchise that inducted Mark Chmura into its Hall of Fame but no one claims knowledge of Curly and Vinnies thoughts on that.
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Who cares. He's better than who they have and the goal is to win.
And of course this is a franchise that inducted Mark Chmura into its Hall of Fame but no one claims knowledge of Curly and Vinnies thoughts on that.
C'mon, Sultan. Adults cavorting with teenyboppers is big right now.
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C'mon, Sultan. Adults cavorting with teenyboppers is big right now.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/yCAoGdVUCW5LW/giphy.gif)
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Chumura, Cade, Lofton, et al embarassed themselves and the franchise. Pissin’ on the country that gives ya the write ta print $ four worthless entertainment is both crazy and wrong, hey?
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Chumura, Cade, Lofton, et al embarassed themselves and the franchise. Pissin’ on the country that gives ya the write ta print $ four worthless entertainment is both crazy and wrong, hey?
He wasn't "pissing on the country." Regardless, it's interesting what people get outraged about.
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Chumura, Cade, Lofton, et al embarassed themselves and the franchise. Pissin’ on the country that gives ya the write ta print $ four worthless entertainment is both crazy and wrong, hey?
I'm not sure what any of their actions has to do with the USA but i gotta tell ya, watching Packer fans stare into the abyss, cat fight with each other, and realize the management isn't equipped to transition this team is super fun.
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C'mon, Sultan. Adults cavorting with teenyboppers is big right now.
7 men and 5 women aquitted chmura in 2 1/2 hours. "cavorting"? she was accused of lying because she didn't like chmura because she supposedly did not like how he treated his wife. according to testimony, a CMH football player testified that he told the "teenybopper" NOT to go into the bathroom. she smiled and went in anyway. probably to show him how he should be treating his wife? after that, i didn't see anything about "cavorting" but if you guys can find that part for me...
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7 men and 5 women aquitted chmura in 2 1/2 hours. "cavorting"? she was accused of lying because she didn't like chmura because she supposedly did not like how he treated his wife. according to testimony, a CMH football player testified that he told the "teenybopper" NOT to go into the bathroom. she smiled and went in anyway. probably to show him how he should be treating his wife? after that, i didn't see anything about "cavorting" but if you guys can find that part for me...
He admitted he engaged in inappropriate behavior.
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Hundley’s well on his wey ta gettin’ Mike chit-canned, ai na?
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Hundley’s well on his wey ta gettin’ Mike chit-canned, ai na?
One can dream.
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Well, at least #12 oughta hold up da Pack for Godell style compensation. Dey ain’t stink without ‘im, hey?
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Hot football take here...the AFC playoff picture is awful. I can't remember a fight for a six seed with so many blah/bad teams.
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1) I met Chmuras girkatba Milwaukee house party
2) Skol Vikings we are the best!!!
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Hot football take here...the AFC playoff picture is awful. I can't remember a fight for a six seed with so many blah/bad teams.
The AFC usually has that reserved for the fight for the four seed.
(http://media.nj.com/super_bowl_blog/photo/matt-schaub-texans-qb-pro-bowl-mvp-8b3c007408a56b54_large.jpg)
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To go back to a conspiracy theory from a couple of years ago...... with the way Jerra is fighting with Roger, I can guaran-damn-tee that the pass interference flag doesn't get picked up again like it was against the Lions in the playoffs.
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7 men and 5 women aquitted chmura in 2 1/2 hours.
O.J. Simpson and Casey Anthony were acquitted, too. Ipso fatso, obviously innocent.
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O.J. Simpson and Casey Anthony were acquitted, too. Ipso fatso, obviously innocent.
Not guilty does not mean innocent.
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O.J. Simpson and Casey Anthony were acquitted, too. Ipso fatso, obviously innocent.
note i said "acquitted" nothing about guilt or innocence. just thought i'd review the case looking for "cavorting" that's all
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Despite losing our opening day starting QB And RB, es no problem, the CONSENSUS shall stroll into yet another NFC North Championship. We are the best. SK0L Vikings!
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Despite losing our opening day starting QB And RB, es no problem, the CONSENSUS shall stroll into yet another NFC North Championship. We are the best. SK0L Vikings!
I'm also very excited.....to bet against Case Keenum in the playoffs. The one consolation for such a crappy Packer season is that the Vikings won't see the Mack truck coming once they get into the playoffs.
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note i said "acquitted" nothing about guilt or innocence. just thought i'd review the case looking for "cavorting" that's all
What's your preferred term for an adult man playing drinking games and hanging out in hot tubs with teenage girls?
Oh, I know ... preparing for a career in Alabama politics.
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What's your preferred term for an adult man playing drinking games and hanging out in hot tubs with teenage girls?
A Packer Hall of Famer????
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I'm also very excited.....to bet against Case Keenum in the playoffs. The one consolation for such a crappy Packer season is that the Vikings won't see the Mack truck coming once they get into the playoffs.
You can watch my snaps as I walk from my place over to the stadium to watch Minnesota win the Super Bowl at US Bank Stadium. Gonna be fun!!!!
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What's your preferred term for an adult man playing drinking games and hanging out in hot tubs with teenage girls?
Oh, I know ... preparing for a career in Alabama politics.
That would be, what is California law SB 1322 for $500 alex
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Letter to the editor in today's Charlotte Observer:
As a Navy veteran I’d like to say that kneeling during the national anthem is not disrespectful to our flag or military.
Our flag is a symbol carried around the world representing our country, our laws, and Constitution. That is why military personnel swear an Oath to “support and defend the Constitution,” not the flag.
The outrage is a red herring by certain groups to take attention away from the real reason for these protests. Unfortunately, it has received support from individuals who are supposed to support the rights of all Americans.
Supporting people who are exercising their Constitutional rights, whether you agree with them or not, my fellow Americans, is the definition of true patriotism!
- Andrew Boris, Pineville
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Letter to the editor in today's Charlotte Observer:
As a Navy veteran I’d like to say that kneeling during the national anthem is not disrespectful to our flag or military.
Our flag is a symbol carried around the world representing our country, our laws, and Constitution. That is why military personnel swear an Oath to “support and defend the Constitution,” not the flag.
The outrage is a red herring by certain groups to take attention away from the real reason for these protests. Unfortunately, it has received support from individuals who are supposed to support the rights of all Americans.
Supporting people who are exercising their Constitutional rights, whether you agree with them or not, my fellow Americans, is the definition of true patriotism!
- Andrew Boris, Pineville
What's your point in sharing this? There's nothing new or fresh in this letter. A lot of vets feel this way. Many vets feel the opposite. Hence, it's a polarizing topic.
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What's your point in sharing this? There's nothing new or fresh in this letter. A lot of vets feel this way. Many vets feel the opposite. Hence, it's a polarizing topic.
My point? It's a subject that has been discussed at length in this thread, and I thought it was both relevant and interesting.
You are allowed to disagree.
I guess instead I should have pointed out Cutler's fine stat line in the Dolphins' loss to Tampa:
6-of-12 for 83 yards, 1 TD, 3 INTs for a QBR of 3.9.
The Dolphins did manage to score 2 TDs after Jay left with a concussion.
That $10M investment hasn't worked out so well. I guess Gase isn't The Jay Whisperer after all! His 4-5 record is the perfect representation of his career.
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My point? It's a subject that has been discussed at length in this thread, and I thought it was both relevant and interesting.
You are allowed to disagree.
It's the same thing that's been said ad nauseam. I was confused as to why you'd try to bring it back up. I still am. To each his own.
I guess instead I should have pointed out Cutler's fine stat line in the Dolphins' loss to Tampa:
6-of-12 for 83 yards, 1 TD, 3 INTs for a QBR of 3.9.
The Dolphins did manage to score 2 TDs after Jay left with a concussion.
That $10M investment hasn't worked out so well. I guess Gase isn't The Jay Whisperer after all! His 4-5 record is the perfect representation of his career.
The Dolphins are a bad team and Gase appears to have fallen victim to the Peter Principle. The team also lost 40-0 in the game Cutler missed so it's not like benching him is the obvious answer. Jay's not the biggest problem in Miami, but he's not part of solution either.
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Letter to the editor in today's Charlotte Observer:
As a Navy veteran I’d like to say that kneeling during the national anthem is not disrespectful to our flag or military.
Our flag is a symbol carried around the world representing our country, our laws, and Constitution. That is why military personnel swear an Oath to “support and defend the Constitution,” not the flag.
The outrage is a red herring by certain groups to take attention away from the real reason for these protests. Unfortunately, it has received support from individuals who are supposed to support the rights of all Americans.
Supporting people who are exercising their Constitutional rights, whether you agree with them or not, my fellow Americans, is the definition of true patriotism!
- Andrew Boris, Pineville
Thank you for sharing, I had not heard this opinion yet. ::)
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Thank you for sharing, I had not heard this opinion yet. ::)
Did you really get banned and create a new username that quickly?
Yeesh.
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Thank you for sharing, I had not heard this opinion yet. ::)
Hi Banny!
Suggestion for next post-ban name change: Mr. Pathetic.
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Very interesting Cam Newton story:
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article185987523.html#emlnl=Morning_Newsletter
Quick capsule: He put his mugshot from his 2008 felony arrest on Instagram and used his accompanying words to express thanks that he turned his life around. I found it to be quite powerful.
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Very interesting Cam Newton story:
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article185987523.html#emlnl=Morning_Newsletter
Quick capsule: He put his mugshot from his 2008 felony arrest on Instagram and used his accompanying words to express thanks that he turned his life around. I found it to be quite powerful.
Yet still did it in that stupid Wingdings font that he loves. I’m a bigger Cam fan than most, but that encapsulates what’s so frustrating about rooting for him at times. So often his bright spots are accompanied by something equally silly or baffling.
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If Vikes win today, rest of the season is for home field.
Hard to believe with their 3rd string QB.
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I didn't see anyone mention the FiveThirtyEight article (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/good-news-browns-your-chances-of-making-the-playoffs-are-only-1-in-19-quintillion/) that outlined the 46 things that had to fall into place for the Cleveland Browns to make the playoffs (including two ties!). They put the odds at 1 in 19,649,922,085,696,900,000 (19 quintillion).
As a Clevelander, I thought it was fitting that the very first of those things - a Dallas win against the Chargers yesterday - failed to occur. As I understand it, the Browns are now officially mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.
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I didn't see anyone mention the FiveThirtyEight article (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/good-news-browns-your-chances-of-making-the-playoffs-are-only-1-in-19-quintillion/) that outlined the 46 things that had to fall into place for the Cleveland Browns to make the playoffs (including two ties!). They put the odds at 1 in 19,649,922,085,696,900,000 (19 quintillion).
As a Clevelander, I thought it was fitting that the very first of those things - a Dallas win against the Chargers yesterday - failed to occur. As I understand it, the Browns are now officially mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.
They gave it a good shot, though.
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The 3 seed in the AFC right now is the Titans.
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Really didn’t like McCarthy going for the 57 yard field goal.
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Really didn’t like McCarthy going for the 57 yard field goal.
Or dropping Brett Hundley back on 3rd and 15 the play after taking a sack. Shocker! He takes another sack to set that up. What a joke. You’re up 7. Run a draw or quick slant, take 5 yards and take a shot at a 47 yard FG. But no let’s try a 57 yarder in the cold in the hardest stadium to kick field goals. Because that’ll end well!
Mac finally calls a good game and then messes it up that quickly. Horrible.
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Really didn’t like McCarthy going for the 57 yard field goal.
Brutal coaching. Team is in field goal range and he calls two deep drops by Hundley. After two sacks, he inexplicably goes for a 57 yard FG.
Looks like it may have turned the game around.
Gets the ball back and calls two more deep drops - sacked on 3 out of 4 deep drops.
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Longest field goal in the history of Heinz field was 53 yards. We just attempted a 57 yarder. NBC pulled that tidbit up in seconds. I’d be shocked if any member of the Packers coaching staff have a clue about that.
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Outside of the long FG call, the offensive game plan and play calling has been just fine. Really strong performance by Hundley.
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Why can a dummy like me see things MM can't?
6 passes this drive - 6 shallow drops by Hundley. Where were those calls before when they were in Steeler territory?
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Should’ve gone for two. Not getting the ball back.
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Going out of bounds?
Wow
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Good try, packers
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Game on the line and Capers calls for single coverage on Antonio Brown.
absolute stupidity!
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Well I think King screwed up the coverage the second to last offensive play. He was supposed to stay in front with Burnett behind him.
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Game on the line and Capers calls for single coverage on Antonio Brown.
absolute stupidity!
Yeah I think that one was in the player.
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Shouldn’t that have been a 15 yarder on Watt’s sack?
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Shouldn’t that have been a 15 yarder on Watt’s sack?
I assumed it wasn't because it looked like Hundley wasn't passing and about to run. Although, he was still in the pocket which may mean it's a penalty no matter what.
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The schedule absolutely helps the Pack coming up. Bucs/Browns next two weeks. The Falcons and Seahawks have brutal sked's coming up. If Rodgers can come back for the last 3 games, the Pack has at least a shot at the 6 seed. Their last 3 games are not easy by any means, but beating the Bucs/Browns keeps you in the hunt (assuming Rodgers is back).
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The schedule absolutely helps the Pack coming up. Bucs/Browns next two weeks. The Falcons and Seahawks have brutal sked's coming up. If Rodgers can come back for the last 3 games, the Pack has at least a shot at the 6 seed. Their last 3 games are not easy by any means, but beating the Bucs/Browns keeps you in the hunt (assuming Rodgers is back).
I don't think GB goes 2-0 the next two weeks. If they don't there is no reason to bring ARod back - I think it will take 10 wins in the NFC.
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Hey, Marc Trestman won the Grey Cup with Toronto yesterday! That is the third time he has won the Grey Cup in six seasons of being a head coach in the CFL.
Someone should give that guy a shot in the NFL.
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Hey, Marc Trestman won the Grey Cup with Toronto yesterday! That is the third time he has won the Grey Cup in six seasons of being a head coach in the CFL.
Someone should give that guy a shot in the NFL.
Would be a fine replacement for McCarthy. Trestman is a great play-caller!
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The last 24 hours for the Bears organization sums up the franchise perfectly. To think the loss to the Eagles was probably the least interesting.
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The last 24 hours for the Bears organization sums up the franchise perfectly. To think the loss to the Eagles was probably the least interesting.
Virginia will be 95 in January. At some point, her time has to come. That's my only hope with this franchise.
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Virginia will be 95 in January. At some point, her time has to come. That's my only hope with this franchise.
The stale sushi smell could kill her before then.
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Can't believe we almost messed up our season tank. We'll never get a top ten pick if we pay like that
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In his last 32 games as a head coach, Hue Jackson is 2-0 on Christmas Eve and 0-30 in every other game. The Bears play the Browns on December 24.
(Stat comes via Patrick Finley of the Sun Times)
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I was wrong about which NY football team would openly tank this year.
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I was wrong about which NY football team would openly tank this year.
Technically, the Jets were trying to tank but did so unsuccessfully. The Giants were trying to be good but have now gone full-blown tank mode.
If they really wanted to "evaluate the roster," they'd start Davis Webb. Since they actually want to lose as many games as possible, they're going with Geno just in case Webb is decent.
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The stale sushi smell could kill her before then.
So who was arguing in the hallway?
Also, love the line from Fox on the McBride release... "We don't know exactly what we're doing."
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So who was arguing in the hallway?
Presumably Tre McBride and...someone more important than Tre McBride.
Also, love the line from Fox on the McBride release... "We don't know exactly what we're doing."
That line is great! It was obviously taken out of context but who cares? That one's going to be the headline when discussing the John Fox Era in Chicago.
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Not joking, I got an invite to a dinner this coming Tuesday night at Halas Hall. I was going to bring a gas mask and boxing gloves, but somehow I don't think that'll go over very well.
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Not joking, I got an invite to a dinner this coming Tuesday night at Halas Hall. I was going to bring a gas mask and boxing gloves, but somehow I don't think that'll go over very well.
You gonna DM McBride's girlfriend too?
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You gonna DM McBride's girlfriend too?
Ha! I just read that story too. I probably don't have enough coin in my checking account to pique her interest.
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Ha! I just read that story too. I probably don't have enough coin in my checking account to pique her interest.
Take a Halas Hall selfie, tell her you were there for kicker tryouts.
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Greg Jennings needs to stop yelling at me.
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Packers defense is worse than MU's.
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Greg Jennings needs to stop yelling at me.
I was thinking the same thing. Does he know that he is always yelling?
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Packers defense is worse than MU's.
The Packers offense is obviously the issue. They haven’t picked up a first down in the second half. Not one. 20 points given up with 5 minutes left in the game when you’re on the field 75% of the game is pretty good.
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I can’t believe they are tied at this point. Not great defensively but absolutely putrid offensively. Hundley is bad.
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Perfect meatball Chicago sports fan story about to happen.
Robbie Gould scores 15, Bears with no kicker, score 14.
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Well ok.
Resorted to running the Kaepernick offense with Hundley and they win a game they shouldn’t have.
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Well ok.
Resorted to running the Kaepernick offense with Hundley and they win a game they shouldn’t have.
Hundley is essentially a poor mans Kaep, so I guess it makes sense to run his offense.
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Well ok.
Resorted to running the Kaepernick offense with Hundley and they win a game they shouldn’t have.
More like the Buccaneers lost a game they should have won
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Praise the champions of the North.
Our Minnesota Vikings!!! SKOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Praise the champions of the North.
Our Minnesota Vikings!!! SKOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With Case Keenum and Latavius Murray (and the defense) leading the charge. Who woulda thunk it?
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Must not be late enough in December for the Silverdome to implode.
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Praise the champions of the North.
Our Minnesota Vikings!!! SKOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gotta come into the Panther Den next Sunday, my friend!
Unfortunately, our winning streak was snapped in New Orleans today ... gonna start another one next week, though.
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Must not be late enough in December for the Silverdome to implode.
that's funny. They should have tried to implode it in October that would have been more accurate.
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The symbolism of not even being able to implode a stadium correctly is very apt.
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Built Ford Tough
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Gotta come into the Panther Den next Sunday, my friend!
Unfortunately, our winning streak was snapped in New Orleans today ... gonna start another one next week, though.
Odin laughs at your puny 3 game winning streak. 8 in a row is the measure of a winning streak now.
I am concerned that the Vikings are due for a let down facing their 3rd road game where this is almost a must win for the home team.
Also, you're home dogs....Vikes -3. Should be a good game
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Odin laughs at your puny 3 game winning streak. 8 in a row is the measure of a winning streak now.
I am concerned that the Vikings are due for a let down facing their 3rd road game where this is almost a must win for the home team.
Also, you're home dogs....Vikes -3. Should be a good game
Your first worry should be about a 1 game streak once the playoffs start.
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Your first worry should be about a 1 game streak once the playoffs start.
As a Vike's fan I can assure you that the length of the post season is not what's looming over our collective heads. The horrible manner by which they assuredly have a game won only to somehow chalk up an 'L' is what's looming over our collective heads.
Will it be a play that causes a rule change the next year? A brainfart by Zimmer that takes the boot off the other teams throat? A blatantly missed call by the refs that isn't reviewable? An MVP player choking? Who knows? BUT...........It will happen, it will be gut wrenching (or hilarious depending on your POV), and it will be memorable.
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As a Vike's fan I can assure you that the length of the post season is not what's looming over our collective heads. The horrible manner by which they assuredly have a game won only to somehow chalk up an 'L' is what's looming over our collective heads.
Will it be a play that causes a rule change the next year? A brainfart by Zimmer that takes the boot off the other teams throat? A blatantly missed call by the refs that isn't reviewable? An MVP player choking? Who knows? BUT...........It will happen, it will be gut wrenching (or hilarious depending on your POV), and it will be memorable.
So 50% chance it was the Vikings getting screwed on something out of their control and 50% chance it’s he Vikings screwing themselves. I’d say like 95% chance Vikings screwing themselves ans 5% chance of the Vikings getting screwed.
Here’s a little seed to plant in the head of Vikings fans. Right now you’re looking at Goff, Keanum, and Wentz quarterbacking the top 3 seeds in the NFC. Let’s say the Pack get a road win at the winless Browns this week. Then let’s say Rodgers returns and the Pack win their last 3 to get in as a 6 seed. If the Vikings finish as the 2 seed and the Rams/Eagles finish as the 1 and 3 seeds (doesn’t matter which is which) are you taking Goff and/or Wentz in their first ever Playoff games over Rodgers, even with the Packers on the road? Would be awesome to see Vikings fans thinking their on their way to a home Superhowl game...only to lose at home to the Packers in the NFC title game.
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So 50% chance it was the Vikings getting screwed on something out of their control and 50% chance it’s he Vikings screwing themselves. I’d say like 95% chance Vikings screwing themselves ans 5% chance of the Vikings getting screwed.
Here’s a little seed to plant in the head of Vikings fans. Right now you’re looking at Goff, Keanum, and Wentz quarterbacking the top 3 seeds in the NFC. Let’s say the Pack get a road win at the winless Browns this week. Then let’s say Rodgers returns and the Pack win their last 3 to get in as a 6 seed. If the Vikings finish as the 2 seed and the Rams/Eagles finish as the 1 and 3 seeds (doesn’t matter which is which) are you taking Goff and/or Wentz in their first ever Playoff games over Rodgers, even with the Packers on the road? Would be awesome to see Vikings fans thinking their on their way to a home Superhowl game...only to lose at home to the Packers in the NFC title game.
at 10-2 and only having one loss to an NFC team the absolute last thing Vike's fans are worried about is GB.
There is a solid possibility that Rodgers is done and GB is a shell without him.
don't make me call you a kook ;)
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at 10-2 and only having one loss to an NFC team the absolute last thing Vike's fans are worried about is GB.
There is a solid possibility that Rodgers is done and GB is a shell without him.
don't make me call you a kook ;)
If (and it is a very big if) GB makes the playoffs, they will beat the Vikings. If I was a Viking fan, I'd be praying that GB doesn't make the playoffs and/or, Rodgers doesn't get the ok to play.
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After watching this MNF game, this is exhibit A for why I'd never let my kids play football. Just utterly brutal.
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After watching this MNF game, this is exhibit A for why I'd never let my kids play football. Just utterly brutal.
Shazier really couldn't move his legs at all on the field. Scary. And agreed, would never let my kid play.
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Odin laughs at your puny 3 game winning streak. 8 in a row is the measure of a winning streak now.
I am concerned that the Vikings are due for a let down facing their 3rd road game where this is almost a must win for the home team.
Also, you're home dogs....Vikes -3. Should be a good game
Actually, it was a 4-game winning streak.
Panthers' 8-4 record includes very impressive wins over New England (on road), Atlanta and Detroit (on road) - and also a loss to the effen Bears, as well as two ugly losses to New Orleans. So they can be very, very good or very bad or anything in between.
You're right about it being a good game. I'm not going but I will be in my favorite watering hole cheering on Cam, Luke & Co. with dozens of like-minded fans.
I don't mind being a home underdog at all. Means nothing today, will mean even less after my boyz slap your boyz upside the heads. And then get ready for "Is it time to go back to Bridgewater" speculation to follow!
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After watching this MNF game, this is exhibit A for why I'd never let my kids play football. Just utterly brutal.
Its getting to the point when these two teams play where I wouldn't mind seeing the league making up the rules as they go along and saying something along the lines of "every personal foul against your team is an automatic ejection."
For all the bluster about what's causing the ratings decrease, last night wasn't fun. The last time I felt as unavoidably aware of my complicit support of brain injuries was when these two played last year. The best way to lose your audience is to make them feel guilty for consuming your product, and I don't think I'm alone on that feeling. I've talked to people today already that said they turned last nights game off, missed a great comeback, and really didn't give a damn. That's a big L for the league.
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Its getting to the point when these two teams play where I wouldn't mind seeing the league making up the rules as they go along and saying something along the lines of "every personal foul against your team is an automatic ejection."
For all the bluster about what's causing the ratings decrease, last night wasn't fun. The last time I felt as unavoidably aware of my complicit support of brain injuries was when these two played last year. The best way to lose your audience is to make them feel guilty for consuming your product, and I don't think I'm alone on that feeling. I've talked to people today already that said they turned last nights game off, missed a great comeback, and really didn't give a damn. That's a big L for the league.
I agree. And I know college players get injured too, but it doesn't seem to be the same frequency or severity. That stuff just isn't fun.
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I agree. And I know college players get injured too, but it doesn't seem to be the same frequency or severity. That stuff just isn't fun.
Now I understand why college players skip out on their school and teammates during Bowl season
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Rodgers getting hurt at US Bank stadium in week 6 and then leading the 6 seeded Packers to a win over the Vikings at the same stadium, to prevent the Vikings having a home Super Bowl, and then winning the Super Bowl in the very same stadium, would be an awesome Hollywood ending for us Packers fans.
Plus the Vikings are unwittingly helping the Packers playoff chances by beating Atlanta last week and hopefully Carolina this week. That story is almost too good not to happen! Sorry Viking fans, #itshappening.
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Rodgers getting hurt at US Bank stadium in week 6 and then leading the 6 seeded Packers to a win over the Vikings at the same stadium, to prevent the Vikings having a home Super Bowl, and then winning the Super Bowl in the very same stadium, would be an awesome Hollywood ending for us Packers fans.
Plus the Vikings are unwittingly helping the Packers playoff chances by beating Atlanta last week and hopefully Carolina this week. That story is almost too good not to happen! Sorry Viking fans, #itshappening.
Panthers gonna take care of Vikes this week and Pack next, so whatevs!
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/jon-gruden-leads-wave-criticism-violence-steelers-bengals-mnf-game-060535067.html
This will help ratings and league image.
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/jon-gruden-leads-wave-criticism-violence-steelers-bengals-mnf-game-060535067.html
This will help ratings and league image.
If there's one thing we know for sure, it's that the American public hates violent entertainment.
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If there's one thing we know for sure, it's that the American public hates violent entertainment.
When it comes to sports, I think there is a narrow segment that does. I think there is a broad segment that doesn't.
Violent movies and video games aren't reality. Most people can make that differentiation.
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Gronk suspension upheld. Should have been suspended longer. He just pounded White, who was lying down out of bounds. Gronk launched himself at White, slammed his forearm into White's head, violently bouncing White's head off the turf. White will probably miss several weeks.
Totally unnecessary, appeared to be intent to injure, defenseless player, long after the play was over.
If the NFL is serious about concussions, violence, etc, this would have been a good example case to lay down the law.
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/jon-gruden-leads-wave-criticism-violence-steelers-bengals-mnf-game-060535067.html
This will help ratings and league image.
Jon Gruden had no problem when he won a Super Bowl and got rich with Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks and John Lynch crushing everybody in the same way. Rings very hollow from him.
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Jon Gruden had no problem when he won a Super Bowl and got rich with Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks and John Lynch crushing everybody in the same way. Rings very hollow from him.
He acknowledged it was a different era then.
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He acknowledged it was a different era then.
Gruden hasn't changed. During Monday's game, he said he would pay for it a season ticket to watch the NFL's dirtiest player.
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Roger Goodell got his contract extension approved.
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Roger Goodell got his contract extension approved.
(https://deadrabbit.barstoolsports.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/13/tenor.gif)
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Total Wins Since October 1
Cubs - 4
Bulls - 3
Bears - 2
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Total Wins Since October 1
Cubs - 4
Bulls - 3
Bears - 2
3-20. Horrendous. But of course when the Bulls are going to be picking at the top it's between Deandre Ayton and Marvin Bagley while the Bucks get to choose between Andrew Bogut and Marvin Williams!
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3-20. Horrendous. But of course when the Bulls are going to be picking at the top it's between Deandre Ayton and Marvin Bagley while the Bucks get to choose between Andrew Bogut and Marvin Williams!
Payback for the Bucks getting Kareem 1,000 years ago!
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just don't let ted thompson make the pick
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Cleveland? Last 33 possessions? 3 TDs.
L
Capers? 3 possessions -2 TDs
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The comprehensive list of changes the Packers plan to make this off-season:
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Kizer - 13 - 15 and one of the misses was a TD pass if not for uncalled pass interference.
Capers is brutal.
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You’re down 7 mid 3rd quarter with 4th and 1 inside field goal range at Cleveland. Take the points and get the lead your next possession.
Please leave Mac behind. He belongs in Cleveland.
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You’re down 7 mid 3rd quarter with 4th and 1 inside field goal range at Cleveland. Take the points and get the lead your next possession.
Please leave Mac behind. He belongs in Cleveland.
+1
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Offensive genius Mike McCarthy going to lose to the 0-12 Cleveland effing Browns.
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You’re down 7 mid 3rd quarter with 4th and 1 inside field goal range at Cleveland. Take the points and get the lead your next possession.
Please leave Mac behind. He belongs in Cleveland.
And if you are going to go for it there, run the QB sneak.
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This bills indy game is exciting.
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McCarthy's decision making today has been...interesting.
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McCarthy's decision making today has been...interesting.
Im watching vinatieri kick a 43 yard extra point atm.
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Im watching vinatieri kick a 43 yard extra point atm.
Sunday Ticket Mix my friend.
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Sure would be nice to have those 3 points right now instead of having had a turnover on downs. Down 7. 22 minutes of game left. 4th and a full 1 at like the 15. Just unreal how clueless Mac is.
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How do Browns fans live with this crap?
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That was a horrendous decision by Kizer. Abysmal.
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What are you guys complaining about?
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How do Browns fans live with this crap?
So sick of this crap. Crappy S/T and D....gave the game to the Pack.
Coach must be fired. He has no clue.
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Adam’s walkoff “celebration” was great. He’s going to get paaaaaaaaid.
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Panthers gonna take care of Vikes this week and Pack next, so whatevs!
I didn't get a chance to watch the game but it looked like after the first INT Vikes were playing uphill the rest of the way. Congrats on the W
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Cleveland remembered they had a first overall pick to play for.
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Cleveland remembered they had a first overall pick to play for.
More specifically, Kizer realized that it's in his best interest to do everything he can to get traded away from this God forsaken football wasteland. I suspect he'll be overheard telling people in the front office, "Man, that Baker Mayfield kid looks really good, doesn't he?"
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Perfect sports weekend!
Panthers try to give game away but ultimate pull out a great, important win over the Vikings - one day after the Warriors beat F%cky by ... oh wait ... I think we hit another 3!
Very entertaining game between Panthers and Vikings. Two good teams that did a lot of great things, but also two imperfect teams that made enough mistakes to help the other greatly.
I will say that the Vikings had better hope that their injured OL return because the backups were like statues out there. I know the feeling, as we had the same problem with the Panthers last season.
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All in all, Hundley did a good job keeping the Packers in the hunt.
Stats can be quirky things at times. Rodgers coming back next week!!
(http://i67.tinypic.com/rsu14g.jpg)
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with all the quarterback issues this year-why no wonder about johnny football making a comeback?
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Johnny Football will one day be bigger in Cleveland than his buddy LeBron ever was.
11:35 AM - 9 May 2014
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How the hell did the Browns think that Carson Wentz was not one of the top 20 players in last year's draft?
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After taking care of the Lions and Vikings, the Panthers very much look forward to taking care of the Packers next week, with or without Rodgers. Beat him last time we played him, too.
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All in all, Hundley did a good job keeping the Packers in the hunt.
Stats can be quirky things at times. Rodgers coming back next week!!
(http://i67.tinypic.com/rsu14g.jpg)
What?
Taking over a Super Bowl contender he was able to beat the Bears - and TB and Cleveland in overtime
The worst team maybe ever and two of the top 5 bottom feeders.
Basically unable to complete a pass to Jordy in 7 games. Hundley showed he has no future in the league other than a last resort backup.
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This Eagles v. Rams game is the best NFL game I have seen all year. Of course Wentz goes off injured...
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Wentz goes down with suspected ACL. Brutal. Brutal injuries all year throughout the league.
And I see the Seahawks are "defending the shield" extraordinarily well.
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Eagles were -2...
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https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/10/seahawks-quinton-jefferson-tries-climb-stands-jacksonville-video
Happens at least once a year with the Seagul...err, Seahawks. What a bunch of assclowns. Fake tough guys who can't accept that they lost the game and then get all butthurt that their opponent takes offense to them intentionally rolling up on their legs on a meaningless snap. Legion of Whom?
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I’ll never respect the Seahawks. Every time they lose someone is getting ejected for fighting.
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PFTCommenter
@PFTCommenter
The NFL concussion protocol would of cleared JFK to reenter the parade
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Eagles were -2...
My wife was laughing as we watched the end of the game. I said: "There is going to be a pretty large segment of American wagerers who are not laughing right now. And some who are celebrating."
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https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/10/seahawks-quinton-jefferson-tries-climb-stands-jacksonville-video
Happens at least once a year with the Seagul...err, Seahawks. What a bunch of assclowns. Fake tough guys who can't accept that they lost the game and then get all butthurt that their opponent takes offense to them intentionally rolling up on their legs on a meaningless snap. Legion of Whom?
Bennet should be suspended for the rest of the regular season. Jefferson should be out for the year (and maybe part of next year).
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Bennet should be suspended for the rest of the regular season. Jefferson should be out for the year (and maybe part of next year).
I think what Bennet did was wayyy worse than Jefferson. Heat of the moment and having beer thrown at you? Don't think many people would be able to keep their cool.
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I don't think what either of them did was worse than what Gronk did a week ago.
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Bennet should be suspended for the rest of the regular season. Jefferson should be out for the year (and maybe part of next year).
Jefferson should be honored for what he did. He should be given an award by the NFL.
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I don't think what either of them did was worse than what Gronk did a week ago.
He should have been out for a long time too. Gronk and Bennett tried to intentionally injure another player. That should be an automatic at least 4 game suspension. To me that is a worse violation than drug use by far.
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Eagles were -2...
When I invested "researched" that game it was a PK.
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He should have been out for a long time too. Gronk and Bennett tried to intentionally injure another player. That should be an automatic at least 4 game suspension. To me that is a worse violation than drug use by far.
Absolutely agree with your last sentence.
I thought what Gronk did was worst because he had a running start and pile-drived into a player who already was out of bounds and on the ground, face-down. One game for that was a shameful sham.
But yes, Bennett's play also was shameful.
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Hmmm ... JB's been awfully quiet today.
More than 24 hours later, and still not Skollin' his Vikings!
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The Pats loss last night could have a big domino effect in the AFC. Door is now wide open for the Jags to grab the 2 seed. A Pats loss at Pittsburgh this Sunday would give the Jags the tiebreaker over the Pats, assuming they both finished 12-4.
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Doable
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25151991_937656839724253_4635367169167856376_n.jpg?oh=4be83acf5706987510acdffd22cd9f95&oe=5AC73386)
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Doable
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25151991_937656839724253_4635367169167856376_n.jpg?oh=4be83acf5706987510acdffd22cd9f95&oe=5AC73386)
Cam, Luke and the rest of my Carolina lads will be taking care of the Packers soon enough.
But y'all can dream for a few days.
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MU82,
I'll be in Charlotte Saturday-Monday for the game. Do you have any recommendations for bars or dining while we're in the area?
(I know you're a Panthers fan but can't remember if you're from/familiar with Charlotte. If not, my apologies.)
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More specifically, Kizer realized that it's in his best interest to do everything he can to get traded away from this God forsaken football wasteland. I suspect he'll be overheard telling people in the front office, "Man, that Baker Mayfield kid looks really good, doesn't he?"
The best part is that Baker Mayfield is Johnny Maziel 2.0. Can't wait for the Browns to take him and watch the franchise burn to the ground.
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The best part is that Baker Mayfield is Johnny Maziel 2.0. Can't wait for the Browns to take him and watch the franchise burn to the ground.
I don't much about college QB's but isn't Mayfield like the 4th ranked QB in this draft behind Rosen, Darnold, and Jackson?
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Doable
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25151991_937656839724253_4635367169167856376_n.jpg?oh=4be83acf5706987510acdffd22cd9f95&oe=5AC73386)
Could you imagine the SKOL Viking angst if they lose to Cinncy and Green Bay and are in a must win against a frisky yet crappy Bears team.
IF Rodgers comes back I think they can run the table and get in. IF they get in it's likely as a 6 seed. They probably play the Rams, which basically becomes a neutral site game. IF they win that game, they likely play Minnesota in Minnesota with the SKOL curse in full swing. IF the Packers win that they likely have to play a Wentzless Eagles for a spot to play the Superbowl in Minnesota
Translation:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/rVbAzUUSUC6dO/giphy.gif)
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I don't much about college QB's but isn't Mayfield like the 4th ranked QB in this draft behind Rosen, Darnold, and Jackson?
Probably, but there's talk of Darnold coming back (in part because he doesn't want to be anywhere near the Browns). I don't think Rosen nor Jackson are sure fire NFL QBs so no matter what Cleveland is gonna screw this up.
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Could you imagine the SKOL Viking angst if they lose to Cinncy and Green Bay and are in a must win against a frisky yet crappy Bears team.
IF Rodgers comes back I think they can run the table and get in. IF they get in it's likely as a 6 seed. They probably play the Rams, which basically becomes a neutral site game. IF they win that game, they likely play Minnesota in Minnesota with the SKOL curse in full swing. IF the Packers win that they likely have to play a Wentzless Eagles for a spot to play the Superbowl in Minnesota
Translation:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/rVbAzUUSUC6dO/giphy.gif)
Nice. I like a good fantasy as much as the next guy!
Can the Packers still get in after the Panthers beat 'em Sunday?
Our DL against that mediocre OL, going after a QB who has to be thinking about protecting himself ... I like our chances.
I envision Peppers and Addison meeting at Rodgers many times, with Short and maybe a blitzer or 2 getting their cracks, too. I don't root for guys to get hurt, even players I don't like, and certainly not a guy I respect as much as I do Rodgers ... I'm just thinking he might be in real physical danger if he plays Sunday. QBs are always in danger, but I mean REAL danger.
And speaking of QBs in danger ...
Did anybody else see that INCREDIBLY wimpy roughing-the-passer call the Dolphins got late last night for barely touching Brady? There is no chance that Cam, Roethlisberger or numerous other tough, non-Brady QBs get that call. ZERO. I couldn't believe it, and neither could Gruden.
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MU82,
I'll be in Charlotte Saturday-Monday for the game. Do you have any recommendations for bars or dining while we're in the area?
(I know you're a Panthers fan but can't remember if you're from/familiar with Charlotte. If not, my apologies.)
You mean besides Bojangles?
PM me. I have to leave soon to coach basketball, but I'll answer later when I get the chance.
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I'm highly doubtful that the Packers would send Aaron Rodgers out there if he was in any more danger than any other NFL player. But maybe I'm wrong.
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Devin Hester retired today.
HoF?
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You mean besides Bojangles?
PM me. I have to leave soon to coach basketball, but I'll answer later when I get the chance.
Apparently Po Folks isn't around anymore.
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Could you imagine the SKOL Viking angst if they lose to Cinncy and Green Bay and are in a must win against a frisky yet crappy Bears team.
IF Rodgers comes back I think they can run the table and get in. IF they get in it's likely as a 6 seed. They probably play the Rams, which basically becomes a neutral site game. IF they win that game, they likely play Minnesota in Minnesota with the SKOL curse in full swing. IF the Packers win that they likely have to play a Wentzless Eagles for a spot to play the Superbowl in Minnesota
I doubt it happens (because Cincy) but if they're playing that bad to lose 3 straight, you'd have to think that a QB change would be at least floated. Which is absurd.
As far as playoffs are concerned, it's a stretch to think we can hold up our end of the bargain, but the Packers have successfully sucked me back in and gotten my hopes up.
As for the help we need, I'd argue it's almost probable that it breaks in our favor:
- SEA plays a tough LA team at home, and a DAL team on the road that will have Zeke back
- ATL/CAR - I don't think NO gets swept by the Falcons, and then week 17 between CAR-ATL doesn't matter.
(Conspiracy alert - if ATL beats NO and then plays CAR to a tie, all 3 NFC South teams make it in)
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Devin Hester retired today.
HoF?
Absolutely
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https://instagram.com/p/BcoIJo2ljDF/
He’s baaaaaaaaack.
And with a running game behind him, too!
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It's his funeral, wades!
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It's his funeral, wades!
If not this week, certainly next.
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Lot of confidence coming out of a couple of fans from franchises who know nothing but losing. I like it.
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Lot of confidence coming out of a couple of fans from franchises who know nothing but losing. I like it.
2013: NFC South Champions.
2014: NFC South Champions.
2015: NFC Champions. (After going 15-1, the Panthers actually reached the SB - unlike a certain 2011 team from the frozen tundra that choked in its first playoff game. My boyz waited until the SB to choke!)
2016: Sucked.
2017: Tied for NFC South lead.
Remind me ... how many championships have the Packers won during that span?
But yes, the Packers have won more Super Bowls than the Panthers have. The Packers also won the 1939 NFL title. All of which is relevant to this week's game ... how?
Seriously, I love good-natured trash-talking, and I'm really looking forward to this game. The Panthers are good - capable of winning at New England, ending Vikes' 8-game winning streak, etc - but they are flawed enough that any team can beat them (as the effen Bears proved). And we know the Packers are flawed but if Rodgers is on his game they can beat anybody. The Packers will have a lot of fans at this game; a quarter to a third of the stadium will probably be wearing green.
Should be fun!
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2013: NFC South Champions.
2014: NFC South Champions.
2015: NFC Champions. (After going 15-1, the Panthers actually reached the SB - unlike a certain 2011 team from the frozen tundra that choked in its first playoff game. My boyz waited until the SB to choke!)
2016: Sucked.
2017: Tied for NFC South lead.
Remind me ... how many championships have the Packers won during that span?
But yes, the Packers have won more Super Bowls than the Panthers have. The Packers also won the 1939 NFL title. All of which is relevant to this week's game ... how?
Seriously, I love good-natured trash-talking, and I'm really looking forward to this game. The Panthers are good - capable of winning at New England, ending Vikes' 8-game winning streak, etc - but they are flawed enough that any team can beat them (as the effen Bears proved). And we know the Packers are flawed but if Rodgers is on his game they can beat anybody. The Packers will have a lot of fans at this game; a quarter to a third of the stadium will probably be wearing green.
Should be fun!
So what you are saying is the Panthers (and Vikings) have won...absolutely nothing? Got it. Thanks for confirming.
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Mike, in Wisconsin we refer to division titles as "losing seasons."
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https://instagram.com/p/BcoIJo2ljDF/
He’s baaaaaaaaack.
And with a running game behind him, too!
Will have the fast recovery PEDs cycled through his system yet to clear drug testing?
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Will have the fast recovery PEDs cycled through his system yet to clear drug testing?
They drug test in the NFL? PEDs help bone breaks?
Both news to me.
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So what you are saying is the Panthers (and Vikings) have won...absolutely nothing? Got it. Thanks for confirming.
What I'm saying is that the Panthers have won about as much as the Packers have the last several years, and more than the Packers have this season. I said nothing about the Vikings, about whom I care zippo.
I also have acknowledged the importance of the Packers' 1939 NFL championship to the current situation. About as relevant as the titles won by the 1920 Akron Pros, the 1947 Chicago Cardinals and the 2016 New England Patriots.
But all of this is noise and pre-game trash-talk.
The only thing that really matters is that the Panthers win 1 more game than the Packers do this Sunday. And I think they will.
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What I'm saying is that the Panthers have won about as much as the Packers have the last several years, and more than the Packers have this season.
Neither team has won anything of value the past "several years." The Panthers have won nothing of value in their history.
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Neither team has won anything of value the past "several years." The Panthers have won nothing of value in their history.
That's fair.
Although the Panthers have won my heart ... certainly, that has value! ;)
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That's fair.
Although the Panthers have won my heart ... certainly, that has value! ;)
Not enough of your heart to decorate your tree however. Your love is conditional.
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Mike, in Wisconsin we refer to division titles as "losing seasons."
That IS true. Amazing how the youngsters on this board have essentially only know Packers winning football in their lifetime.
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My wife was laughing as we watched the end of the game. I said: "There is going to be a pretty large segment of American wagerers who are not laughing right now. And some who are celebrating."
Then MU82 added, “great Carolina win today, but if anyone puts up a Panthers “ornament” on our tree, I’m going to totally flip my sh1t!!!”
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Nice to see my ornament dilemma bleed over into another thread.
Skol Panthers!
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Nice to see my ornament dilemma bleed over into another thread.
Skol Panthers!
Gonna be ugly today. Capers is on top of his game ;D ;D
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Capers isn’t stellar but there aren’t any impact players on this defense. Thompson’s lack of ability to find high level talent recently has been this defense’s main problem.
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Capers isn’t stellar but there aren’t any impact players on this defense. Thompson’s lack of ability to find high level talent recently has been this defense’s main problem.
Very true. But this defense has probably been dead last over the last 8 weeks while playing Chicago, TB, and Cleveland, etc.
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Capers isn’t stellar but there aren’t any impact players on this defense. Thompson’s lack of ability to find high level talent recently has been this defense’s main problem.
Disagree. It's a chicken and egg type problem. You make the claim that Capers is fine, the problem is Thompson and talent. But they have drafted tons of talent, they just don't perform well in Capers system.
The the question is, were the players really not talented (Thompson), or is Capers system outdated and poor. I think the problem is Capers hasn't adjusted to people learning how to beat his system.
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No coaching. No discipline.
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Disagree. It's a chicken and egg type problem. You make the claim that Capers is fine, the problem is Thompson and talent. But they have drafted tons of talent, they just don't perform well in Capers system.
The the question is, were the players really not talented (Thompson), or is Capers system outdated and poor. I think the problem is Capers hasn't adjusted to people learning how to beat his system.
I never said Capers was fine. I’m saying that he isn’t the only one to blame.
Tell me what defensive players from Green Bay leave and perform well elsewhere? Hayward is one but he was injured. Anyone else?
There just isn’t high level talent.
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I never said Capers was fine. I’m saying that he isn’t the only one to blame.
Tell me what defensive players from Green Bay leave and perform well elsewhere? Hayward is one but he was injured. Anyone else?
There just isn’t high level talent.
Micah Hyde is 4th in interceptions and performing better than Hayward (who you mention).
We letter Peppers go, who is 11th in the league with 9.5 sacks, because he was underperforming in GB.
On our team we have Matthews, Martinez, Dix, and Burnett, who are very skilled players.
Hyde in particular went from a nickel back, to possible pro bowl player.
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You are overrating the current talent and exaggerating the quality of the talent that left. Peppers in particular is playing better in a limited role because there is better talent around him.
Anyway you are correct that a better coordinator could get more out of them. But the talent needs to improve too.
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No coaching. No discipline.
Newton has been very average and they are still on a pace for 450+
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Skol Vikings! The North is ours! The CONSENSUS is the best team.
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Bullish!t dirty hit. Awful. Can’t imagine he’s not concussed again. Which may mean his season is over.
Carolina fans booing the call. Absurd. Guy should absolutely be ejected.
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Man, Adams has taken some vicious cheap shots this year.
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Kick this punk out of the league.
No attempt at a legal block. Simple headhunting - absolutely trying to cause injury.
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Of all the incompletions in the NFL, THAT is a completed pass? LOL!
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NFL rules are weird. I have no idea how that was a touchdown catch.
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Kick this punk out of the league.
No attempt at a legal block. Simple headhunting - absolutely trying to cause injury.
Of all the incompletions in the NFL, THAT is a completed pass? LOL!
These are two big reasons, why even I am getting to the point I don't want to watch football anymore.
Deliberate attempts to injure people largely goes unpunished. If these things happened off a football field the people would be in jail.
And on top of that just plain dumb rules. There is no way there was definitive evidence that should be a touchdown. Just zero. Rules make no sense anymore.
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Rusty!
2 easy TDs in a row underthrown.
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These are two big reasons, why even I am getting to the point I don't want to watch football anymore.
Deliberate attempts to injure people largely goes unpunished. If these things happened off a football field the people would be in jail.
And on top of that just plain dumb rules. There is no way there was definitive evidence that should be a touchdown. Just zero. Rules make no sense anymore.
I watch very little football outside of the Packers. I know Chicos wants to tell me it’s because players take a knee for the National Anthem. But it’s really because the product is awful.
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I was watching meaningless bowl games last night. College football is a much better product right now.
I will watch the Steeler / Patriot game this afternoon though.
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I was watching meaningless bowl games last night. College football is a much better product right now.
I will watch the Steeler / Patriot game this afternoon though.
I find college football completely unwatchable. Games are getting to the point that they last nearly 4 hours. The play is terrible, the officiating even worse. Rankings/playoff system about as dumb a system as possible.
Would rather get 4 hours of work in, then watch college football.
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I find college football completely unwatchable. Games are getting to the point that they last nearly 4 hours. The play is terrible, the officiating even worse. Rankings/playoff system about as dumb a system as possible.
Would rather get 4 hours of work in, then watch college football.
I get my work done efficiently so I can waste time watching college football.
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Kick this punk out of the league.
No attempt at a legal block. Simple headhunting - absolutely trying to cause injury.
This why the NFL is a problem and also tricky. It was a dirty hit but Thomas Davis is one of the good guys in the league. Walter Payton award winner, couple other awards for character, he's not Rodney Harrison or Ndamukong Suh, but the culture of football has always been to light up the other guy as hard as you can from a young age. Add in a defensive player who doesn't block often who has been taught "find someone to hit" as soon as a TO occurs, and here we are.
Its a violent game and it has some terrible results. Davis was clearly upset and it wasn't because of a fairly inconsequential penalty. That being said, he should have been ejected but the NFL has no clue what its doing.
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Time to draft some impact players.
TT hasn't shown that ability.
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I get my work done efficiently so I can waste time watching college football.
Yeah, my job is such that their is no "getting work done". It never ends, it is just a matter of how far behind you are.
I'm about as efficient as they come.
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No offense, but you Packers fans are coming off as incredibly spoiled.
Your team has the second-best record in the NFL over the past decade. They've been to the playoffs 9 out of the past 10 seasons.
Your GM's lack of impact players drafted includes Aaron Rodgers, Jordy Nelson, Clay Matthews, David Bakhtiari and Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, among others, all while drafting in the bottom third of every round more often than not.
You do realize that just about every fan base in the NFL outside of Boston and maybe Pittsburgh would trade places with you in a heartbeat?
Also, regardless of the outcome of today's game, it's not a very good day for the Panthers' organization.
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No offense, but you Packers fans are coming off as incredibly spoiled.
Deal with it.
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It's pretty damn funny to me that the Panthers owner is in trouble for, among other things, examining and commenting on women's asses on their jeans on Denim Friday. This game turned on officials in NYC examining a man's ass in super slow motion to determine if any bit of it went out bounds.
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No offense, but you Packers fans are coming off as incredibly spoiled.
Your team has the second-best record in the NFL over the past decade. They've been to the playoffs 9 out of the past 10 seasons.
Your GM's lack of impact players drafted includes Aaron Rodgers, Jordy Nelson, Clay Matthews, David Bakhtiari and Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, among others, all while drafting in the bottom third of every round more often than not.
You do realize that just about every fan base in the NFL outside of Boston and maybe Pittsburgh would trade places with you in a heartbeat?
Also, regardless of the outcome of today's game, it's not a very good day for the Panthers' organization.
GB fans have some "SEC football fan" in them. They were great 50 years ago so they believe they're entitled to a championship-caliber team every year.
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Yeah, my job is such that their is no "getting work done". It never ends, it is just a matter of how far behind you are.
I'm about as efficient as they come.
There vs. their
Grade some more papers, bud.
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GB fans have some "SEC football fan" in them. They were great 50 years ago so they believe they're entitled to a championship-caliber team every year.
“The owners” demand excellence!
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GB fans have some "SEC football fan" in them. They were great 50 years ago so they believe they're entitled to a championship-caliber team every year.
Hmm. I was negative 20+ years old those 50 years ago. What the Packers did with Lombardi has no influence on my view of the Packers and what I feel entitled to.
I’m a Ted backer though. What we really need is a new strength and conditioning staff/regimen.
Also, not sure how this is hard to understand. Not all franchises are equal. I’ll tell you what, I’ll complain next year if Wojo doesn’t have this MU team solidly in the NCAA Tournament with a real shot to make a deep run. And it has nothing to do with the 1970s teams I never once saw play. When you have Favre followed by Rodgers, expectations are and should be high. When they aren’t met, people will be unhappy. That’s not selfish, whiny, etc.
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GB fans have some "SEC football fan" in them. They were great 50 years ago so they believe they're entitled to a championship-caliber team every year.
I don't see the comparison. In the SEC they 'claim' to be better despite the fact that they play non-conference games against The Citadel and are still 'owed' 3 of the 4 playoff spots every year. Packers fans understand their historic place in the hierarchy of NFL football but understand that every season is a new challenge and that winning matters. Yes, Packers fans have high expectations for their team but don't expect things to be handed to them.
So now the season is officially 'over' and I can stop paying attention. Probably will only casually watch a little playoffs and SB with no interest whatsoever in the outcome.
Pitchers and catchers in about 60?
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Obviously, I enjoyed the hell out of the Panthers beating the Packers.
I really like Thomas Davis, one of the NFL's good guys and a very good LB. He was visibly shaken by his own hit. However, I agree he should have been ejected and I said so at the time. It was a completely unnecessary hit on a defenseless player.
Rodgers seemed as much mentally rusty as physically. He underthrew a couple of passes and threw behind a couple of receivers, but at least 2 of the INTs came on passes he simply shouldn't have thrown. They were forced plays - the kind of bonehead INTs Cam used to throw. If this were Rodgers' 13th or 14th game of the season, I doubt he would have made most of those throws. All in all, he did OK considering everything.
Cam threw for 242 yards and 4 TDs, had a 128 rating, and ran for 58 yards ... and at least one of y'all said he only had a so-so game. I'll take that so-so game from my QB every freakin' week and we'll see y'all in the Super Bowl, thank you! He's a hell of an athlete and a pretty darn good QB, too - and he's won a lot of football games these last 5 years. He made several excellent throws today. Also drew the Packers offside 87 times. Not sure how anybody could watch that game and not conclude that Cam far outplayed Rodgers; given Rodgers' situation, I'd have been disappointed if he hadn't.
The bar my wife and I went to, we sat down next to a guy and his wife. They were getting ready to leave, but we chit-chatted for a minute. The guy said he liked the Panthers but he didn't like Cam "because he's arrogant." Here in Charlotte, that is dog whistle for "uppity n-word." I mean, because Brady and Rodgers - and most great athletes - aren't arrogant. The "discount double-check" isn't arrogant. Classic.
It was a weird week for the Panthers, with the owner having to settle improper sexual conduct charges. Douchebags everywhere. I like wades' comment about it being appropriate that the one TD was about the Panthers' receiver's butt cheek!
I happen to think they ultimately got the call right - the super-slow-mo showed the left cheek hitting the ground inbounds slightly before the right cheek hit out of bounds. The call that ended the game - the GB receiver fumbling after making a good catch - was obvious.
McCaffrey had a nice game - but he's got to handle that onside kick. We got away with one there.
This Panthers team is quite similar to the 2015 team that went to the Super Bowl - very talented and quite good, but prone to mistakes especially while trying to hold big leads. In the end, they win a lot more of those than they lose, thankfully. The Panthers are as good as anybody in the league. Definitely could go back to the SB. Also could lose in the first round.
Cam has outplayed Rodgers, Brady, Stafford and Ryan this season. But the Panthers probably won't win their division because he couldn't outplay Brees ... or Trubisky! That was the game in which Trubisky threw only 7 passes but the Bears won because Cam was victimized by 2 tipped passes that were intercepted for TDs. We beat the good teams in the NFC North but lost 17-3 to the Bears in by far the worst game of the season. That's effen sports!
Go Panthers! Go Marquette!
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NFL rules are weird. I have no idea how that was a touchdown catch.
I thought that too until they showed it from the other angle. looked like he had control and his ass was in the end zone
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I thought that too until they showed it from the other angle. looked like he had control and his ass was in the end zone
I didn't see enough evidence to overturn it. But I am biased and wasnt paying much attention at that point.
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GB fans have some "SEC football fan" in them.
Bears fans have no need. ;)
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And then that is NOT a catch. Hysterical.
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Keeps my perfect week alive for my pickem pool but that is a touchdown everyday of the week.
Goodness me, that was a terrible call.
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Garoppolo is really good. Niners are going to be interesting next couple years.
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And then that is NOT a catch. Hysterical.
That was a great game. Until that review.
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GB fans have some "SEC football fan" in them. They were great 50 years ago so they believe they're entitled to a championship-caliber team every year.
It would make my night if you were a fan of an NFC North team. Otherwise, meh
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Still can't figure out that call at the end of the Steelers-Pat game. Sure seemed like a TD to me ... but it's hard to know what isn't and isn't one any more. I admit I don't know every nuance of the rule.
Nevertheless ...
The Steelers had 2 chances to win the game, no questions asked. 3rd-and-4 in their next-to-last possession, they get the first down it's game over. They only get 3 yards. Then, early in Patriots' winning drive, they have an INT right in their hands. I've seen 8-year-olds make that play. But the DB drops it and gives Brady new life.
Make either one of those two plays, and you win the game, and nobody's talking about the replay system.
Not to mention that Big Ben CAN'T throw an INT there. Has to make sure that the absolutely worst result is a tying FG.
So did the weird "what's a catch" rule beat the Steelers? Kinda. It says here that what really beat them was their own inability to finish the job.
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Keeps my perfect week alive for my pickem pool but that is a touchdown everyday of the week.
Goodness me, that was a terrible call.
goodness me? shucky darns it was the right call it's the rule that sucks
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That was a great game. Until that review.
Goodell has made the NFL unwatchable for the fans. Owners may like him for his lawyer skills, but the fans have been left in the dust.
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And then that is NOT a catch. Hysterical.
I think it was correct call/bad rule.
As I understand it, "completing the catch" supercedes "crossing the plane" in that situation. James came down with the ball in his hands and it hit the ground and moved. Therefore, incomplete and no touchdown.
I dislike the rule
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Deal with it.
Oh, I do. Every time I read this thread.
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And then that is NOT a catch. Hysterical.
That seemed a catch. Dez Bryant's seemed a catch. Calvin Johnson's seemed a catch. It's hard to watch anymore. Someone on Youtube had a highlight reel of them and it is hard to understand. For 70 years those were catches, and now because of replay they aren't and we get into things like did he make a football move or play. Well, the guy isn't out there playing poker, every move he makes when the ball is snapped is a football move.
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As a Lion's fan, if that had been ruled a catch for the Steelers, I would have thrown stuff at the TV, and I was rooting for the Steelers. His hand came off of the ball as he landed. Not a catch.
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I was fine with that not being ruled a catch. He didn't finish the play. He had the ball in his hands with one knee down, but as the rest of him fell to the ground, his hands smacked against the ground and it came loose. I agree the rule is horrible and inconsistent - but I'd like to see it changed so that is never a catch, rather than always a catch.
Compare that against the Allison play - if the ball in Jesse James' hands had hit another player's helmet instead of his hands hitting the ground, should that play then have been a fumble? I would say of course not. But then when he hits the ground and loses the ball, it can't be a catch, either.
If he had been in the end zone, along the out of bounds line, and made the same play - if the knee lands in bounds, his hands hit the chalk and he bobbles, no catch. But if his hands hit the chalk and he doesn't bobble, because he got the knee down - and the knee is as good as two feet - its a TD.
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As a Lion's fan, if that had been ruled a catch for the Steelers, I would have thrown stuff at the TV, and I was rooting for the Steelers. His hand came off of the ball as he landed. Not a catch.
I think everyone knows that by the rule it was a good call. But the rule is bad. For years that was a catch. I mean, he had control of the ball when he crossed the line.
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He made the catch and he reached the ball over the goal line. Whether it’s a catch by rule or not, that absolutely is a catch. The ground did not aid him catching the football. He had already caught it.
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It's that going to the ground bullsh*t. Why the standards are greater for a player going to the ground is unknown to me.
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That seemed a catch. Dez Bryant's seemed a catch. Calvin Johnson's seemed a catch. It's hard to watch anymore. Someone on Youtube had a highlight reel of them and it is hard to understand. For 70 years those were catches, and now because of replay they aren't and we get into things like did he make a football move or play. Well, the guy isn't out there playing poker, every move he makes when the ball is snapped is a football move.
+1.
We're at the level of litigating football.
How perfectly American.
That's why its not fun anymore.
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The interesting part of this IMO is was there conclusive evidence that showed the ball hitting the ground? I think it hit the ground, but can't tell if it did or not, or if his fingers were underneath that.
I do think that per the rule (which I do think is an idiotic rule), that that is not a catch, IF the ball hit the ground. I just see anything there that could overturn the call on the field (same if they ruled it incomplete originally).
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+1.
We're at the level of litigating football.
How perfectly American.
That's why its not fun anymore.
It was inevitable once they instituted replay. Opens a whole new can of worms.
Same thing happened in baseball and football.
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It was inevitable once they instituted replay. Opens a whole new can of worms.
Same thing happened in baseball and football.
100% correct.
However, I find it extremely hypocritical that fans are complaining about replay reversals since the fans demanded replay review because the refs made errors. It's the same logic that people use to say the NCAA tournament should've been expanded to 68 to eliminate the bubble issue or that the college football playoffs should be expanded to 8 teams to eliminate controversy. People always complain when they are on the wrong side of a decision.
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We're at the level of litigating football.
How perfectly American.
That's why its not fun anymore.
The Brady "Tuck Rule" play was 16 years ago. It was litigated for years. Did football stop being fun then?
The Stabler "Holy Roller" intentional fumble was 39 years ago. It was litigated for years and immortalized in NFL Films. Did football stop being fun then?
The Butch Johnson catch/drop was 40 years ago. It was litigated for years and immortalized in NFL Films. Did football stop being fun then?
The Immacculate Reception was 45 years ago. It is still shown pretty regularly. Did football stop being fun then?
Yes, this whole "catch or no catch" thing is annoying and very inconsistently adjudicated. But controversial calls and controversial/stupid rules have been happening for decades in every sport.
With all that's going on with football - including, apparently, the Panthers' owner being a sexual abuser and racist - the catch/no catch thing is what makes it no fun?
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The Brady "Tuck Rule" play was 16 years ago. It was litigated for years. Did football stop being fun then?
The Stabler "Holy Roller" intentional fumble was 39 years ago. It was litigated for years and immortalized in NFL Films. Did football stop being fun then?
The Butch Johnson catch/drop was 40 years ago. It was litigated for years and immortalized in NFL Films. Did football stop being fun then?
The Immacculate Reception was 45 years ago. It is still shown pretty regularly. Did football stop being fun then?
Yes, this whole "catch or no catch" thing is annoying and very inconsistently adjudicated. But controversial calls and controversial/stupid rules have been happening for decades in every sport.
With all that's going on with football - including, apparently, the Panthers' owner being a sexual abuser and racist - the catch/no catch thing is what makes it no fun?
Yeah but he's selling the team to make it all go away
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Steratore used a piece of paper to determine a first down. I've now seen it all.
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What a day for unlikeable NFL rules!
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With all that's going on with football - including, apparently, the Panthers' owner being a sexual abuser and racist - the catch/no catch thing is what makes it no fun?
It's not the only thing, but it is a part. The things you mentioned were just cleaning up issues. This has changed the game. Every marginal catch - and they occur every game - means a 5 minute shut down of play while the technical aspects are reviewed.
Baseball is doing the same thing with the double-play pivot and the tag at home. Completely unnecessary and destroying the intent of the game. Of course neither is a major thing, but the small issues add up. In the NFL, the small issues have run amok.
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It's not the only thing, but it is a part. The things you mentioned were just cleaning up issues. This has changed the game. Every marginal catch - and they occur every game - means a 5 minute shut down of play while the technical aspects are reviewed.
Baseball is doing the same thing with the double-play pivot and the tag at home. Completely unnecessary and destroying the intent of the game. Of course neither is a major thing, but the small issues add up. In the NFL, the small issues have run amok.
Fair enough, brand. I just think there's always been something to complain about. This is just the complaint du jour!
I mean, look at the progress we've made. Just a couple months ago, players quietly protesting during the anthem were ruining football!
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What a day for unlikeable NFL rules!
At least the final ruling was clear cut. Players really need to stop reaching for the pylon with one hand. Its a stupid rule, but its got nothing on the catch rules.
Carr really needed to outduel Big Ben for title of "doing too much and blowing the game"
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Fair enough, brand. I just think there's always been something to complain about. This is just the complaint du jour!
I mean, look at the progress we've made. Just a couple months ago, players quietly protesting during the anthem were ruining football!
The Goodell track record...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/roger-goodell-is-earning-plenty-to-be-nfl-commissioner-but-what-exactly-is-his-value/2017/12/17/be8883c4-e349-11e7-ab50-621fe0588340_story.html?utm_term=.3856b90842ce
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No offense, but you Packers fans are coming off as incredibly spoiled.
Your team has the second-best record in the NFL over the past decade. They've been to the playoffs 9 out of the past 10 seasons.
Your GM's lack of impact players drafted includes Aaron Rodgers, Jordy Nelson, Clay Matthews, David Bakhtiari and Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, among others, all while drafting in the bottom third of every round more often than not.
You do realize that just about every fan base in the NFL outside of Boston and maybe Pittsburgh would trade places with you in a heartbeat?
This, so much this. Man, after a few losses with Hundley, my Packer co-workers were insane, listing off all the coaches and GM to be fired, like the whole organization should be scrapped because the string of 8 straight playoff seasons might be over.
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It's not the only thing, but it is a part. The things you mentioned were just cleaning up issues. This has changed the game. Every marginal catch - and they occur every game - means a 5 minute shut down of play while the technical aspects are reviewed.
Baseball is doing the same thing with the double-play pivot and the tag at home. Completely unnecessary and destroying the intent of the game. Of course neither is a major thing, but the small issues add up. In the NFL, the small issues have run amok.
Can't believe I'm going to defend Goddell here, but let's be fair ... the commissioner does not make the rules of play. In fact, he has almost zero say in the rules of play, other than seeing that they're enforced. That's the providence of first the Competition Committee, which writes the rules, and then the owners, who approve them.
The current Competition Committee is:
Rich McKay
John Mara
Stephen Jones
Mark Murphy
Ozzie Newsome
Rick Smith
Marvin Lewis
Mike Tomlin
Bruce Arians
John Elway
Sean Payton
So, if you think the rules suck - and many do - blame these guys.
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It's that going to the ground bullsh*t. Why the standards are greater for a player going to the ground is unknown to me.
And why are the standards different in the end zone than they are in the field of play (Allison's catch/fumble was called correctly but if it had been in the end zone it would have been incomplete - ya know complete the process crap).
I was listening to 540AM post-game driving home from a friend's house after the Packer game and Jason Wilde (Packers beat reporter for ESPN Milwaukee and State Journal) made a good point and used the Packer game as an example: If I can look at multiple "catches" an credibly argue that it's not a catch and that it is a catch at the same time then the rules aren't very good. The NFL has itemized the crap out of what is a catch and when you add in super slow motion reply nothing makes sense any more.
I do know this, after the Jerry Rice fumble that wasn't called in the NFC championship game I've been a huge proponent of reply.....this season has made me regret that position.
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And why are the standards different in the end zone than they are in the field of play (Allison's catch/fumble was called correctly but if it had been in the end zone it would have been incomplete - ya know complete the process crap).
Nope, if he was in the end zone, it would have been a TD because he had possession. He didn't need to "survive the ground."
What's interesting is that James didn't "survive the ground" so it's ruled incomplete, yet Golden Tate has this ball for a split second in the end zone and is given a TD...
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap3000000559571/Can-t-Miss-Play-Golden-Tate-s-wacky-touchdown (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap3000000559571/Can-t-Miss-Play-Golden-Tate-s-wacky-touchdown)
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I am a proponent of replay, but I am also a proponent of simplification - like the college rule. Retain control and get two feet down. The Pittsburgh TE had control of the ball, got a knee down, had control of the ball when he brought it over the line. Touchdown.
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Nope, if he was in the end zone, it would have been a TD because he had possession. He didn't need to "survive the ground."
What's interesting is that James didn't "survive the ground" so it's ruled incomplete, yet Golden Tate has this ball for a split second in the end zone and is given a TD...
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap3000000559571/Can-t-Miss-Play-Golden-Tate-s-wacky-touchdown (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap3000000559571/Can-t-Miss-Play-Golden-Tate-s-wacky-touchdown)
Disagree, it would have been the Megatron thing as he was going to the ground and you have to complete the process.
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This, so much this. Man, after a few losses with Hundley, my Packer co-workers were insane, listing off all the coaches and GM to be fired, like the whole organization should be scrapped because the string of 8 straight playoff seasons might be over.
I think more astute Packers fans are simply acknowledging that some fairly deep flaws had been masked by having one of the best NFL players at QB and that some changes are necessary.
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Deadspin has the catch rule from 1982 quotes here. So much simpler and straight forward.
http://deadsp.in/pUvYLNB
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I think more astute Packers fans are simply acknowledging that some fairly deep flaws had been masked by having one of the best NFL players at QB and that some changes are necessary.
I get that a lot of fanbases would like to be in the Packers shoes, but by the same time I think there is a legitimate argument that the front office and coaching staff have underperformed in the last 10 years. The NFL is a quarterback driven league and the Packers have had once in a generation quarterbacks for over 20 years now and have 3 Superbowl appearances and 2 Superbowl titles to show for it. Yes there are all sorts of mitigating circumstances like injuries, but every team has those and still teams like Pittsburgh and New England continue to make the playoffs and make Superbowl appearances. The Packer organization has significantly under supported the Rodgers era and we now have plenty of evidence that this team is average to below average without Rodgers.
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Disagree, it would have been the Megatron thing as he was going to the ground and you have to complete the process.
Allison wasn't going to the ground when he caught it. He caught the ball and took 3 steps forward.
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The NFL is a quarterback driven league and the Packers have had once in a generation quarterbacks for over 20 years
Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and even Drew Brees might argue with the "once in a generation" designation.
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I am a proponent of replay, but I am also a proponent of simplification - like the college rule. Retain control and get two feet down. The Pittsburgh TE had control of the ball, got a knee down, had control of the ball when he brought it over the line. Touchdown.
This is where I am. Replay is great, should be used. In my view, they even got the Steeler call correct per the rule, but I find the rule horrible.
If that was a runner, it is a touchdown. Same for the other two examples I provided. To simplify things, make it like a runner. This idea of a football move is so arbitrary it is ruining part of the game. If you are able to get two feet in down, or the equivalent, then that should be enough. It will not be perfect, but what we have today are bad rules.
Three options to fix NFL catch
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21798623/three-options-fix-nfl-catch-rule-2017
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Replay, in both the NFL and MLB, has reached the point of breaking down the minutiae of a play. I'd like to see a system where the officials have a set amount of time (1 minute? 90 seconds?) to review a play on the monitor. If time expires and a decision hasn't been made, the call stands. Replay requires clear and conclusive evidence. Simply put, if it's not clear and conclusive after 2-3 looks from different angles, it's not clear and conclusive.
I also have an issue with calls that could easily be corrected but are not considered reviewable. And I don't just say that because GB won a game due to a phantom facemask call that easily could have been overturned ;)
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Replay, in both the NFL and MLB, has reached the point of breaking down the minutiae of a play. I'd like to see a system where the officials have a set amount of time (1 minute? 90 seconds?) to review a play on the monitor. If time expires and a decision hasn't been made, the call stands.
You say this, but ...
If a team you love (and that includes MU, because they use replay in select college BKB situations, too) loses a game on a play that was ruled inconclusive after looking at it for the 90-second limit, and then 2 minutes later the network shows an angle that clearly shows the refs got the call wrong, do you promise not to join the thousands (or millions) who will whine, "They have replay! Just get the effen call right!"?
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Diddy says he is interested in putting together an ownership group to buy the Panthers.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article190279754.html#emlnl=Morning_Newsletter
That would be interesting. Richardson basically is forced to sell because he apparently was a sexual abuser and misogynist, but the league would let a guy who has spent years very publicly calling women "hos" and "bitches" have an NFL team?
Diddy also said that if he owned a team, he'd bring in Kaepernick to challenge for the starting QB spot. Methinks that CK would have difficulty unseating the current Panthers starter. Me also thinks, however, that Kaepernick would be an upgrade over Derek Anderson as a backup - although I've come across many Charlotte racists who actually think in their perverted world that Anderson is better than Cam.
I'd love to see Steph Curry put together an ownership group, though - and he has expressed interest. He loves Charlotte, loves NC and loves the Panthers, and I'd be confident the team would stay here for a long time.
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Diddy says he is interested in putting together an ownership group to buy the Panthers.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article190279754.html#emlnl=Morning_Newsletter
That would be interesting. Richardson basically is forced to sell because he apparently was a sexual abuser and misogynist, but the league would let a guy who has spent years very publicly calling women "hos" and "bitches" have an NFL team?
Diddy also said that if he owned a team, he'd bring in Kaepernick to challenge for the starting QB spot. Methinks that CK would have difficulty unseating the current Panthers starter. Me also thinks, however, that Kaepernick would be an upgrade over Derek Anderson as a backup - although I've come across many Charlotte racists who actually think in their perverted world that Anderson is better than Cam.
I'd love to see Steph Curry put together an ownership group, though - and he has expressed interest. He loves Charlotte, loves NC and loves the Panthers, and I'd be confident the team would stay here for a long time.
There is also the Tupac murder...
I suspect the current ownership group has first dibs on Jerry’s majority shares.
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Diddy would have to bring in partners cause he’s not rich enough.
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Diddy would have to bring in partners cause he’s not rich enough.
Well clearly, but in these days of insane team valuations, situations like Ballmer buying and owning a team outright is rare. However, Diddy is worth $750MM+, so it’s not like he would be some token celebrity owner like Usher with the Cavs. He could contribute a significant chunk of cash.
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Well clearly, but in these days of insane team valuations, situations like Ballmer buying and owning a team outright is rare. However, Diddy is worth $750MM+, so it’s not like he would be some token celebrity owner like Usher with the Cavs. He could contribute a significant chunk of cash.
Agreed. The purchase price is going to be about $2B though.
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If MU82 had just spent his time buying bitcoins instead of pissing off his neighbors, he could afford it
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Can't believe I'm going to defend Goddell here, but let's be fair ... the commissioner does not make the rules of play. In fact, he has almost zero say in the rules of play, other than seeing that they're enforced. That's the providence of first the Competition Committee, which writes the rules, and then the owners, who approve them.
The current Competition Committee is:
Rich McKay
John Mara
Stephen Jones
Mark Murphy
Ozzie Newsome
Rick Smith
Marvin Lewis
Mike Tomlin
Bruce Arians
John Elway
Sean Payton
So, if you think the rules suck - and many do - blame these guys.
???
I neither mentioned nor blamed Goddell in my post.
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If MU82 had just spent his time buying bitcoins instead of pissing off his neighbors, he could afford it
Teal not necessary. You're right. dammit!
But seriously ...
Despite all the handwringing about the NFL going to hell in a handbasket, there will be lots and lots of people/groups interested in buying the Panthers - a middle-of-the-road NFL franchise. They will pay an outrageous price, too. It will be interesting to watch how it all unfolds.
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This is where I am. Replay is great, should be used. In my view, they even got the Steeler call correct per the rule, but I find the rule horrible.
If that was a runner, it is a touchdown. Same for the other two examples I provided. To simplify things, make it like a runner. This idea of a football move is so arbitrary it is ruining part of the game. If you are able to get two feet in down, or the equivalent, then that should be enough. It will not be perfect, but what we have today are bad rules.
Three options to fix NFL catch
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21798623/three-options-fix-nfl-catch-rule-2017
I think the catch rule needs to go to possession with two feet/one knee down and maintained through the point where as a runner they would be down. So if you catch it on the sideline, get two feet down with clear possession then hit the ground out of bounds as soon as you touch the ground you're down and it doesn't matter if you lose control at that point. Same with in the field of play, two feet/one knee with possession and as soon as the knee touches and a defender touches you, as long as you have possession at that instant you are down.
No more of this complete the process of the catch nonsense.
Also would require that any part of the body touches out it's out....just like if you touch the toe down but then the heel lands out it's out if you land on your lower back in bounds first but then your upper back lands out of bounds, it's incomplete.
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I think the catch rule needs to go to possession with two feet/one knee down and maintained through the point where as a runner they would be down. So if you catch it on the sideline, get two feet down with clear possession then hit the ground out of bounds as soon as you touch the ground you're down and it doesn't matter if you lose control at that point. Same with in the field of play, two feet/one knee with possession and as soon as the knee touches and a defender touches you, as long as you have possession at that instant you are down.
No more of this complete the process of the catch nonsense.
I agree with the concept but it could be simplified even more - If a player has complete control of the football for two steps or a knee/elbow/butt down, it's a catch. Down by contact wouldn't need to come into play.
In the Steelers' case, James wasn't technically down by contact when he lost control of the ball but he was in control of the ball when it crossed the plane of the goal line thus making the play dead. Therefore, touchdown.
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I agree with the concept but it could be simplified even more - If a player has complete control of the football for two steps or a knee/elbow/butt down, it's a catch. Down by contact wouldn't need to come into play.
In the Steelers' case, James wasn't technically down by contact when he lost control of the ball but he was in control of the ball when it crossed the plane of the goal line thus making the play dead. Therefore, touchdown.
Yes exactly, why introduce any sort of judgement call, make it clear cut
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Worse than "completing the catch" rule is the end zone fumble goes to the other team rule.
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Thomas Davis suspended 2 games. Safe to assume that he'll appeal and get it knocked down to 1 (as was the case with Trevathan).
One game seems sufficient. However, if Gronk got 1 game for cheap-shotting a player laying on the ground after a play, one game seems too harsh. IOW, the league went too easy on Gronk and now, once again, they look like fools handing out arbitrary suspensions.
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Thomas Davis suspended 2 games. Safe to assume that he'll appeal and get it knocked down to 1 (as was the case with Trevathan).
One game seems sufficient. However, if Gronk got 1 game for cheap-shotting a player laying on the ground after a play, one game seems too harsh. IOW, the league went too easy on Gronk and now, once again, they look like fools handing out arbitrary suspensions.
Ding ding ding
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/davante-adams-rips-thomas-davis-after-yesterdays-brutal-cheap-shot-skins-linebacker-comes-out-and-says-dont-play-im-always-headhunting
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Worse than "completing the catch" rule is the end zone fumble goes to the other team rule.
Should be loss of down and the ball returned to the team who had it at the 20 yard line. Not my idea, but read about it earlier this year and fully endorse the concept, but only if it is accidentally lost. A player can't bat it out and get this kind of do over.
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Thomas Davis suspended 2 games. Safe to assume that he'll appeal and get it knocked down to 1 (as was the case with Trevathan).
One game seems sufficient. However, if Gronk got 1 game for cheap-shotting a player laying on the ground after a play, one game seems too harsh. IOW, the league went too easy on Gronk and now, once again, they look like fools handing out arbitrary suspensions.
Again, 100% agree. Gronk's suspension was a joke, he should have been out for the rest of the regular season at minimum. Disgusting disregard for human life completely outside the spirit of competition. Now the NFL boxed themselves in on hits of that nature. So so stupid.
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Running full speed and launching the crown of your helmet into the earhole of another guy that is running full speed towards you but doesn't have any view of you is 100x more dangerous than launching your shoulder into a guy already on the ground stationary.
Both are dirty. If one is going to cause serious long term damage to a human being it is absolutely Davis's hit on Adams.
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https://twitter.com/ChrisWesseling/status/942817902452867073
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Again, 100% agree. Gronk's suspension was a joke, he should have been out for the rest of the regular season at minimum. Disgusting disregard for human life completely outside the spirit of competition. Now the NFL boxed themselves in on hits of that nature. So so stupid.
Goodell and the league has a history of only handing out suspensions when pressure is on.
Whatever you think of the JuJu Smith-Schuster block he was suspended for, I doubt that suspension isn't handed out if 1) Shazier didn't have the scary injury earlier and 2) If that game wasn't on national television.
The Thomas Davis suspension happened, because it followed the JuJu suspension (note that no suspension was given for LaQuon Treadwell's blindside block against the Packers earlier in the year).
Sad to say it, but if that Bill's player suffers a serious injury, then Gronk actually gets a worthy suspension.
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Running full speed and launching the crown of your helmet into the earhole of another guy that is running full speed towards you but doesn't have any view of you is 100x more dangerous than launching your shoulder into a guy already on the ground stationary.
Both are dirty. If one is going to cause serious long term damage to a human being it is absolutely Davis's hit on Adams.
Only 100x? Why not 1 million times?
Davis' hit was dirty and uncalled for, and he should have been suspended. I'm not going to try to justify it.
To refresh my memory, I just watched the replay of the Gronk play. The Buffalo player, White, had intercepted the pass and was laying, face-down, out of bounds. The play was over for 3 full seconds. Gronk took a running start, launched his 265-pound body at White, and finished his dirty hit with a forearm shiver to the back of White's head, which bounced off the turf like a soccer ball.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/07/tredavious-white-rob-gronkowski-hit-suspension-patriots-bills
Said the guy on the NFL Network: "That's savage, right there."
I'm not going to claim it was 100x worse than the Thomas Davis hit - because I don't know how to compare the two (and neither do you) - but it was awful and, IMHO, deserved a multiple-game suspension.
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Running full speed and launching the crown of your helmet into the earhole of another guy that is running full speed towards you but doesn't have any view of you is 100x more dangerous than launching your shoulder into a guy already on the ground stationary.
Both are dirty. If one is going to cause serious long term damage to a human being it is absolutely Davis's hit on Adams.
Pretty much everything that happens in football is dangerous. The Davis hit was illegal but it was in the course of the action and wasn't even an illegal play a few years ago. Nothing about the Gronk play was anywhere close to legal and never has been.
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Only 100x? Why not 1 million times?
Davis' hit was dirty and uncalled for, and he should have been suspended. I'm not going to try to justify it.
To refresh my memory, I just watched the replay of the Gronk play. The Buffalo player, White, had intercepted the pass and was laying, face-down, out of bounds. The play was over for 3 full seconds. Gronk took a running start, launched his 265-pound body at White, and finished his dirty hit with a forearm shiver to the back of White's head, which bounced off the turf like a soccer ball.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/07/tredavious-white-rob-gronkowski-hit-suspension-patriots-bills
Said the guy on the NFL Network: "That's savage, right there."
I'm not going to claim it was 100x worse than the Thomas Davis hit - because I don't know how to compare the two (and neither do you) - but it was awful and, IMHO, deserved a multiple-game suspension.
More dangerous. Not worse or more savage or with more intent behind it. But it absolutely, positively was infinitely more dangerous. Even if it was entirely accidental, it would’ve still be way more dangerous.
In one play, you have one player taking a dive and hitting a guy’s head that is laying still on the ground with his shoulder. No doubt the intent was awful, but the worst case scenario was “just” a concussion, which is what happened. Of course that’s awful, but his life wasn’t going to be taken on that field.
In the other play you have 2 giant men running full speed towards each other. One sees the other, lowers the crown of his helmet, and launches himself as hard as he can into the other person’s earhole. Extremely unlikely Adams dies on the field, but that kind of force to the head could have done that. Adams is incredibly lucky it’s “just” his second concussion in a few months and incredibly lucky he actually got up from that hit.
In terms of actual danger, one was way, way worse, and it wasn’t Gronk’s hit.
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More dangerous. Not worse or more savage or with more intent behind it. But it absolutely, positively was infinitely more dangerous. Even if it was entirely accidental, it would’ve still be way more dangerous.
In one play, you have one player taking a dive and hitting a guy’s head that is laying still on the ground with his shoulder. No doubt the intent was awful, but the worst case scenario was “just” a concussion, which is what happened. Of course that’s awful, but his life wasn’t going to be taken on that field.
In the other play you have 2 giant men running full speed towards each other. One sees the other, lowers the crown of his helmet, and launches himself as hard as he can into the other person’s earhole. Extremely unlikely Adams dies on the field, but that kind of force to the head could have done that. Adams is incredibly lucky it’s “just” his second concussion in a few months and incredibly lucky he actually got up from that hit.
In terms of actual danger, one was way, way worse, and it wasn’t Gronk’s hit.
You're entitled to your opinion. I happen to disagree, as do many others. I'm sure others agree with you. They're just opinions.
As for the worst-case scenario on Gronk's hit, White had his own opinion: "He could have broke my neck."
https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/07/tredavious-white-rob-gronkowski-hit-suspension-patriots-bills
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Pretty much everything that happens in football is dangerous. The Davis hit was illegal but it was in the course of the action and wasn't even an illegal play a few years ago. Nothing about the Gronk play was anywhere close to legal and never has been.
I don’t care what was once legal. Thankfully we’re becoming more aware of what kind of danger players are being put in with that kind of hit. It’s not legal nor should it ever have been legal.
I would guess if you showed every doctor in America the 2 plays and asked them which one they think is more dangerous to the human that is being hit 99.99% of the answers would be the hit to Adams without any hesitation.
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The Davis hit unquestionably had more force involved then the Gronk hit....i can run the equations if you'd like
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The Davis hit unquestionably had more force involved then the Gronk hit....i can run the equations if you'd like
You don't have to. wades already gave everybody a money-back guarantee!
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You don't have to. wades already gave everybody a money-back guarantee!
Aka “I don’t want to KNOW I’m wrong, I just want to keep that doubt out there so I can say wades doesn’t know what he’s talking about.”
I’m totally fine with eng not doing anything to prove what I said. There is no doubt whatsoever which hit was more dangerous and could do more damage.
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More dangerous. Not worse or more savage or with more intent behind it. But it absolutely, positively was infinitely more dangerous. Even if it was entirely accidental, it would’ve still be way more dangerous.
In one play, you have one player taking a dive and hitting a guy’s head that is laying still on the ground with his shoulder. No doubt the intent was awful, but the worst case scenario was “just” a concussion, which is what happened. Of course that’s awful, but his life wasn’t going to be taken on that field.
In the other play you have 2 giant men running full speed towards each other. One sees the other, lowers the crown of his helmet, and launches himself as hard as he can into the other person’s earhole. Extremely unlikely Adams dies on the field, but that kind of force to the head could have done that. Adams is incredibly lucky it’s “just” his second concussion in a few months and incredibly lucky he actually got up from that hit.
In terms of actual danger, one was way, way worse, and it wasn’t Gronk’s hit.
Wasn't Adams practically standing still?
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Wasn't Adams practically standing still?
No. He was running towards the defender that was sprinting full speed at him and launching the crown of his helmet into his earhole.
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I don’t care what was once legal. Thankfully we’re becoming more aware of what kind of danger players are being put in with that kind of hit. It’s not legal nor should it ever have been legal.
I would guess if you showed every doctor in America the 2 plays and asked them which one they think is more dangerous to the human that is being hit 99.99% of the answers would be the hit to Adams without any hesitation.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/acRkKvoPBhg3u/giphy.gif)
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https://sports.yahoo.com/sean-diddy-combs-serious-buying-carolina-panthers-colin-kaepernick-playing-big-role-plans-193513977.html
"Combs declared Sunday that he hoped to purchase an NFL team shortly after Panthers owner Jerry Richardson announced he would be putting his controlling share of the franchise up for sale. Kaepernick echoed Combs’ interest Sunday and began moving forward with plans this week. According to a source close to the quarterback, Kaepernick has already begun reaching out to a handful of business leaders, venture capitalists and sports icons to discuss an ownership group."
I would laugh my a$$ off if this actually happens...
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Must bee xmas. Actually agree with Meshuggeneh. Snowball in fookin’ hell’s got a betta shot, ai na?
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https://sports.yahoo.com/sean-diddy-combs-serious-buying-carolina-panthers-colin-kaepernick-playing-big-role-plans-193513977.html
"Combs declared Sunday that he hoped to purchase an NFL team shortly after Panthers owner Jerry Richardson announced he would be putting his controlling share of the franchise up for sale. Kaepernick echoed Combs’ interest Sunday and began moving forward with plans this week. According to a source close to the quarterback, Kaepernick has already begun reaching out to a handful of business leaders, venture capitalists and sports icons to discuss an ownership group."
I would laugh my a$$ off if this actually happens...
Would the owners actually approve of the sale though?
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Just as soon as Scoop jumps all over Kate Upton, hey?
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Would the owners actually approve of the sale though?
Oh God no.
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No. He was running towards the defender that was sprinting full speed at him and launching the crown of his helmet into his earhole.
I was gonna point this out, too, but I didn't really want to go point-by-point with you.
I just now watched the replay 5x. Adams was going nowhere near full speed. He had slowed considerably and was starting to head the other direction. And as he angled for position, he actually was juking a little. He obviously didn't see Davis, who was going full speed or close to it.
You don't need to exaggerate to make your point. Davis was suspended. He deserved to be.
You still have "proven" nothing. We each have an opinion. I respect yours.
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The hit:
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/FPlvObCQOssK2kLsLo6rFG2w7YQ=/400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9886201/adam.0.gif)
Personally, I would rate gronks as worse for 2 reasons: after the whistle and malicious intent.
Who could have been injured worse? Likely Adams.
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The hit:
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/FPlvObCQOssK2kLsLo6rFG2w7YQ=/400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9886201/adam.0.gif)
Personally, I would rate gronks as worse for 2 reasons: after the whistle and malicious intent.
Who could have been injured worse? Likely Adams.
Davis's hit was more vicious, but it was during a live play on a player who was still actively participating. Had Adams turned more up field like he should have for a tackle, the block would have been less illegal (but still completely savage)
Gronk's on the other hand was after the whistle, on a player on the ground. Gronk clearly was looking to cause injury. His could have easily been seen as assault.
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Correct. Davis' was a football play. A dirty, crappy, vicious football play, but it actually involved something related to the action on the field.
Gronk was just pissed long after the play was over, and he decided to assault another player.
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Davis’s hit was far, far more dangerous.
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So 50% chance it was the Vikings getting screwed on something out of their control and 50% chance it’s he Vikings screwing themselves. I’d say like 95% chance Vikings screwing themselves ans 5% chance of the Vikings getting screwed.
Here’s a little seed to plant in the head of Vikings fans. Right now you’re looking at Goff, Keanum, and Wentz quarterbacking the top 3 seeds in the NFC. Let’s say the Pack get a road win at the winless Browns this week. Then let’s say Rodgers returns and the Pack win their last 3 to get in as a 6 seed. If the Vikings finish as the 2 seed and the Rams/Eagles finish as the 1 and 3 seeds (doesn’t matter which is which) are you taking Goff and/or Wentz in their first ever Playoff games over Rodgers, even with the Packers on the road? Would be awesome to see Vikings fans thinking their on their way to a home Superhowl game...only to lose at home to the Packers in the NFC title game.
Whew! I am so glad i can sleep soundly knowing that the big bad pack won't ruin our season.
note: I know it will be ruined but nobody was really worried about the pack this year........or next.
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Whew! I am so glad i can sleep soundly knowing that the big bad pack won't ruin our season.
note: I know it will be ruined but nobody was really worried about the pack this year........or next.
Just like nobody's ever really been worried about the Vikings...well, ever.
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For the defenders of Ted Thompson.
The Packers placed ZERO players on the Pro Bowl roster. ZERO. This is the guy who is considered a great scout and drafter.
So without ARod, there are in company with Cleveland, Chicago, Indy. Wow!
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For the defenders of Ted Thompson.
The Packers placed ZERO players on the Pro Bowl roster. ZERO. This is the guy who is considered a great scout and drafter.
So without ARod, there are in company with Cleveland, Chicago, Indy. Wow!
Which means pretty much ZERO.
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Which means pretty much ZERO.
Except that without Rodgers the team has ZERO chance to do anything.
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Which means pretty much ZERO.
Actually, it means one of two things.
1. TT isn't drafting any impact players.
or
2. TT is drafting good players, but coaches are incapable of coaching them.
In order, I would place the blame 1) Capers, 2) TT, 3) MM
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Just like nobody's ever really been worried about the Vikings...well, ever.
Wades, you might just have to watch a few games outside of the packers. I know it asks a lot but gosh the Vikings are purdy good.
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Except that without Rodgers the team has ZERO chance to do anything.
Clearly isn't upset about missing the playoffs. I mean not upset at alllllllllllll
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i realize now I have a lot of fury towards the bear management so I'll let the experts fall on the sword for the year. Mudish, keep up the good work
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nm
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i realize now I have a lot of fury towards the bear management so I'll let the experts fall on the sword for the year. Mudish, keep up the good work
You mean you didn't think it was a great idea to trade up 1 draft slot for a player the team ahead of you wasn't ever going to pick anyways?
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Clearly isn't upset about missing the playoffs. I mean not upset at alllllllllllll
Or it means I don’t put a whole lot of stock into a game that you can get invited to based on a fan vote?
The Pro Bowl means absolutely nothing. Andy Dalton is a 3 time Pro Bowler for goodness sakes. But yeah let’s freak out that the Packers didn’t have any players make the Pro Bowl.
I get that as a Bears fan you don’t get much else to cheer about other than your players playing a meaningless scrimmage that I wouldn’t even call football, but for fans of a team that actually has a chance to do something year in and year out how many Pro Bowlers your team has is entirely meaningless.
But sure. We’ll go with the bitter about missing the Playoffs for the first time in 9 years when our HOF QB missed half the season. Makes sense.
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Kyle Long played in 10 games and was named a second alternate for the Pro Bowl. Akiem Hicks has been a dominant force on the defensive line all season and was named a fourth alternate.
In summary, don't read too much into Pro Bowl selections.
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The Pro Bowl means absolutely nothing. Andy Dalton is a 3 time Pro Bowler for goodness sakes. But yeah let’s freak out that the Packers didn’t have any players make the Pro Bowl.
I don't exactly agree with this, I think we as fans, and the media end up giving too much credit for making the Pro Bowl because half of the players that make it, don't end up playing in it and thus others get in.
For example, you mention Andy Dalton is a 3 time Pro Bowler, and if you visit his wikipedia page, it confirms that. And you'll probably hear that repeated by football media about him, but ultimately it gives him credit that he actually does not deserve.
Dalton has played in 3 Pro Bowls: 2012, 2015, and 2017 (for the 2011, 2014, and 2016 regular seasons respectively.
For the 2012 Pro Bowl, Dalton was the AFC alternate behind Brady, Roethlisberger, and Rivers. He ended up replacing Brady on that team.
For the 2015 Pro Bowl, there were 6 QBs selected (Romo, Luck, Brady, Roethlisberger, Rogers, Manning) and 4 of them did not participate (the latter 4). As they dropped out, Dalton was the 3rd QB added to the Pro Bowl teams after Brees and Stafford (effectively making him the 9th "ranked" QB).
For the 2017 Pro Bowl, Dalton was the 2nd AFC Alternate behind Alex Smith after Brady, Carr, and Roethlisberger were initially selected.
In none of those years was Dalton rated as a top-6 league QB yet those Pro Bowl designations imply that. I think being selected does have its merits, but we've diluted those merits by giving them to the alternates (I don't mind them playing, but they shouldn't be considered as a pro bowl player)
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I don't exactly agree with this, I think we as fans, and the media end up giving too much credit for making the Pro Bowl because half of the players that make it, don't end up playing in it and thus others get in.
For example, you mention Andy Dalton is a 3 time Pro Bowler, and if you visit his wikipedia page, it confirms that. And you'll probably hear that repeated by football media about him, but ultimately it gives him credit that he actually does not deserve.
Dalton has played in 3 Pro Bowls: 2012, 2015, and 2017 (for the 2011, 2014, and 2016 regular seasons respectively.
For the 2012 Pro Bowl, Dalton was the AFC alternate behind Brady, Roethlisberger, and Rivers. He ended up replacing Brady on that team.
For the 2015 Pro Bowl, there were 6 QBs selected (Romo, Luck, Brady, Roethlisberger, Rogers, Manning) and 4 of them did not participate (the latter 4). As they dropped out, Dalton was the 3rd QB added to the Pro Bowl teams after Brees and Stafford (effectively making him the 9th "ranked" QB).
For the 2017 Pro Bowl, Dalton was the 2nd AFC Alternate behind Alex Smith after Brady, Carr, and Roethlisberger were initially selected.
In none of those years was Dalton rated as a top-6 league QB yet those Pro Bowl designations imply that. I think being selected does have its merits, but we've diluted those merits by giving them to the alternates (I don't mind them playing, but they shouldn't be considered as a pro bowl player)
I think any award or all star team that is partially or fully determined by a fan vote is diluted. I don't think the Pro Bowl means anything at all.
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Here's my point. There are obvious holes/concerns in the Packers team. But freaking out because the Packers had no Pro Bowlers is absurd. Who cares?
The fact of the matter is that all but 2 teams in the NFL would kill to trade positions with the Packers. In a QB driven league, the Packers lost arguably the best quarterback in the history of football for half the season and couldn't overcome it. If that surprises anyone then they don't know football very well. How many teams can overcome losing their quarterback for half or more of the season and still compete for a Super Bowl? Not many. The Vikings, but they knew it was only a matter of time before Bradford was injured so they went out and got a quarterback to back him up that had previous starting experience. The Eagles? Maybe, we'll find out. The Patriots? Probably, because they have the greatest coach in maybe the entire history of all sports. Other than that? I'm not sure any team out there can.
Brett Hundley is going to end up starting 9 games for the Packers, and playing 90% of a 10th game (the Vikings game when Rodgers got hurt on the 2nd offensive drive of the game). How many NFL teams have a worse starting quarterback than Brett Hundley? The Browns and...? In a quarterback driven league, very, very, very few teams are winning enough games to make the Playoffs when Brett Hundley plays 10 games for them. If any.
I've literally heard Packers fans on the radio saying we should let Rodgers walk after next season because we're spending too much money on one position and it's leaving holes everywhere else. What a friggin joke. Quarterback is by far and away the most important position on the football field. You can be below average everywhere else and have Rodgers as your QB and you might win a Super Bowl. You can be outstanding everywhere else but if you have a below average quarterback you're going to make the Playoffs every other year and lose in the Divisional Round when you make it to the Playoffs. Awesome. Apparently Packers fans would prefer that. So we want to be the Vikings or Bears. I personally don't. Maybe I'm crazy for that.
All you can hope for is a consistent competitor that makes the Playoffs year in and year out. From there, anything can happen. If you're doing it consistently then it's pretty clear you're a good football team with a chance to make a run, not just some one hit wonder that happened to be in a bad division and had no real chance to win a game in the Playoffs. The Packers are consistently competing for a Super Bowl. Of course I want more than 2 Super Bowls between Favre and Rodgers, but it's not easy to just go out and win a Super Bowl. The Packers have a shot every year, and that's all you can ask for.
But hey, let's freak out because none of our players get to play in the most meaningless scrimmage that doesn't even look like football!
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Gotta agree with wades here.
The Panthers are 10-4. Likely playoff participants. Decent chance to reach the Super Bowl for the 2nd time in 3 years. A lot of impact players, especially on defense.
One player was selected for the Pro Bowl: Luke Kuechly.
I can think of several others who should have gotten strong consideration (and maybe they did), but I'm not upset at all. Not upset that more Panthers didn't make it. Not upset that the GM should have built a team with more Pro Bowl players.
Almost all of the Pro Bowl players the Panthers had when they were 15-1 two years ago are still on the team; they just didn't play quite as well this year, or they had injuries that limited their games, or there simply were better players at the same positions. In general, I'm content with the Panthers' roster - I think a lot of fans of other teams would LOVE to trade rosters with the Panthers.
It's an exhibition game, and the worst of all the major sports. Half the guys who end up going to the Pro Bowl were only alternates as others beg out. And I don't blame them for begging out. Who wants to get hurt in this stupid game? Hell, it's not even in Hawaii any more!
Players want to get named to the Pro Bowl not because they actually want to play in it but because they view it as an affirmation of their greatness. Plus, some have incentive clauses, meaning a Pro Bowl designation is worth $$ to them.
Otherwise, as wades says, the Pro Bowl means absolutely nothing.
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Going to agree with wades to a point. I've generally been Team Ted, and that consistency with which we've competed is really the target. It's not always going to end in a Super Bowl.
I won't contest that we're at a critical point, though. Talent at some key spots is a bit bare for the Packers - Jordy is getting old, Adams needs to be paid, and we need salary relief from Cobb. Ted tried to fill the hole at TE via free agency and it just didn't pan out. Our offense can and should adapt next year - we finally look like we have a well-rounded running game. As wades said, Rodgers covers a lot of ills. I think we tap back into the WR well in the draft again, and Ted has had great success at the top of the draft at this position.
Pass rush has been Ted's blind spot - we just can't seem to plug it. Could have definitely paid up to keep Peppers, but no guarantee that he didn't want to return home to close out his career anyway.
CB is a mess. Some of this is injuries, but Ted made 2 big oversights in consecutive years with Hayward and then Hyde (still maintain Hyde was a luxury for us). Still hope for King.
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Hey, this is pretty fun for those who haven't seen it yet:
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article190826684.html#emlnl=Afternoon_Newsletter
It's the video of Matthews screaming at his defensive mates that the Panthers are about to run the "wheel route," but Newton can be heard responding to Matthews: “You’ve been watching film, huh? That’s cool. Watch this!”
And then, instead of the wheel route, McCaffrey cuts inside, catches the pass and walks into the end zone.
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I think any award or all star team that is partially or fully determined by a fan vote is diluted. I don't think the Pro Bowl means anything at all.
IOW, fan opines that the opinions of fans are worthless.
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Pro Bowl means next to nothing, but All Pro is what counts in my mind. All Pro isn't always perfect, but I look at how many times a guy has been named first/second team All Pro than I do how many Pro Bowls he went to.
Completely off topic, I'm irrationally excited to watch the Toilet Bowl game that will be Browns/Bears. I'm not going, but it's the perfect storm for there to be like 7,000 people there (Christmas Eve, 20 degrees, possible snow, two awful franchises playing out the string). I hope it ends in a 6-6 tie and is just dreadful.
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IOW, fan opines that the opinions of fans are worthless.
Fan opines popularity contests mean nothing when determining how great or poor of a roster a franchise has.
Pro Bowl means next to nothing, but All Pro is what counts in my mind. All Pro isn't always perfect, but I look at how many times a guy has been named first/second team All Pro than I do how many Pro Bowls he went to.
Agreed.
Going to agree with wades to a point. I've generally been Team Ted, and that consistency with which we've competed is really the target. It's not always going to end in a Super Bowl.
I won't contest that we're at a critical point, though. Talent at some key spots is a bit bare for the Packers - Jordy is getting old, Adams needs to be paid, and we need salary relief from Cobb. Ted tried to fill the hole at TE via free agency and it just didn't pan out. Our offense can and should adapt next year - we finally look like we have a well-rounded running game. As wades said, Rodgers covers a lot of ills. I think we tap back into the WR well in the draft again, and Ted has had great success at the top of the draft at this position.
Pass rush has been Ted's blind spot - we just can't seem to plug it. Could have definitely paid up to keep Peppers, but no guarantee that he didn't want to return home to close out his career anyway.
CB is a mess. Some of this is injuries, but Ted made 2 big oversights in consecutive years with Hayward and then Hyde (still maintain Hyde was a luxury for us). Still hope for King.
Agreed with all of this, especially the pass rush issue, except for CB being a mess. I actually think it has a chance to be a position of strength. But, as always seems to be the case with the Packers teams, injuries have hindered them. Hayward had obvious talent but was always hurt with the Packers, so I can understand why they let him go. Hyde was good and I liked him a lot because he was versatile, but he wasn't fast or big, he was just okay in Green Bay.
Randall was awful at the very start of the season but after the Bears game he played like a true #1 CB. King I think is going to be very good, but again, can he stay on the field? We'll see. House can be a very solid 3rd CB. It wouldn't hurt to have one more, but if Randall is truly the player we saw for the last 65% of the season and King can stay healthy I think we're good there. They'll just get exposed if we can't get to the QB ever like we haven't been able to.
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Pro Bowl means next to nothing, but All Pro is what counts in my mind. All Pro isn't always perfect, but I look at how many times a guy has been named first/second team All Pro than I do how many Pro Bowls he went to.
I agree. I never said when I started this conversation that the Pro Bowl was a perfect indicator - just as the stock market is not nearly a perfect indicator of the economy.
So let me restate my argument using 1st and 2nd team all-pro. Counting specialists, we are talking about 50 or so players. Does it say something about a team and about the person who drafts for that team if no players are among these 50 best of the best? I think it does.
Since drafting ARod 12 years ago, he has drafted just one star player in the first round - Mathews.
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I agree. I never said when I started this conversation that the Pro Bowl was a perfect indicator - just as the stock market is not nearly a perfect indicator of the economy.
So let me restate my argument using 1st and 2nd team all-pro. Counting specialists, we are talking about 50 or so players. Does it say something about a team and about the person who drafts for that team if no players are among these 50 best of the best? I think it does.
Since drafting ARod 12 years ago, he has drafted just one star player in the first round - Mathews.
I kinda skimmed the thread, so I wasn't calling you or anyone out, just offering that thought on Pro Bowl vs All Pro.
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I kinda skimmed the thread, so I wasn't calling you or anyone out, just offering that thought on Pro Bowl vs All Pro.
I knew you weren't calling me out.
You made an excellent point and I wanted to follow up.
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I kinda skimmed the thread, so I wasn't calling you or anyone out, just offering that thought on Pro Bowl vs All Pro.
I definitely think there's much more to All Pro over Pro Bowl, but I think those initially selected to Pro Bowls got there for a reason. And I think that does speak to some level of quality. When talking about a GM drafting talent or a coach developing talent, using Pro Bowl selections does provide some sort of measuring stick IMO, just not as valuable as All Pro.
And I understand that the fan voting portion of the Pro Bowl provides an avenue where less-deserving players make it, but I don't quite remember where a certain player made it and egregiously didn't deserve it (many cases where I've felt some players were snubbed over others, but never thought to myself "how the hell did that player even sniff a Pro Bowl bid")
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Hey, this is pretty fun for those who haven't seen it yet:
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article190826684.html#emlnl=Afternoon_Newsletter
It's the video of Matthews screaming at his defensive mates that the Panthers are about to run the "wheel route," but Newton can be heard responding to Matthews: “You’ve been watching film, huh? That’s cool. Watch this!”
And then, instead of the wheel route, McCaffrey cuts inside, catches the pass and walks into the end zone.
And IIRC despite Clay calling it out, the wheel route was open as well.
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I agree. I never said when I started this conversation that the Pro Bowl was a perfect indicator - just as the stock market is not nearly a perfect indicator of the economy.
So let me restate my argument using 1st and 2nd team all-pro. Counting specialists, we are talking about 50 or so players. Does it say something about a team and about the person who drafts for that team if no players are among these 50 best of the best? I think it does.
Since drafting ARod 12 years ago, he has drafted just one star player in the first round - Mathews.
What about the guys not in the first round?
Nick Collins (2nd round), Josh Sitton (4th), and Jordy (drafted high 2nd after trading out of the first) made it repeatedly. I think Bahktiari and Haha made it last year. Either way, I just don't think the measure of success is drafting someone who is the first or second best at their position for several years. You hit on guys like Mike Daniels or any number of great players who will fall beneath that All Pro status, you're still doing something right.
The Packers need to reload at several positions, and we should continue to see if we can't plug holes via reasonable FA pickups. But to suggest that Thompson hasn't been a successful drafter is ridiculous. If anything, it's his unwillingness to make that reasonable acquisition in FA that separates him from the success teams like NE have had. No one can accuse him of not trying this past off-season, and Bennett gave some validation to Thompson's trepidation.
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And IIRC despite Clay calling it out, the wheel route was open as well.
No way. Capers would not let that happen.
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I think the roster decisions on the Pack WR's is going to be very interesting. Nelson fell off the face of the earth once Rodgers went out. I think with Rodgers back next year, you can get another productive year out of him (he'll be 33), and he's on a reasonable number and an expiring contract. However, cutting him frees up $10 mil in space. There's somewhat of a fascinating dilemma going around the NFL with wideouts coming off the fourth year of their rookie deal. You saw the Bears last year let Jeffrey walk, Sammy Watkins will hit the market, and the Dolphins will probably let Jarvis Landry walk. I think Adams is better than those guys, and he'd get the biggest deal on the open market. I think the Pack have roughly $15 mil in cap space, would they cut Nelson to sign Adams? I'm also curious if they're going to re-do Rodgers deal, because Garoppolo and Brees are about to fall into the top five of highest paid QB's in some order, and Cousins will most likely be back in the top three as well again next year.
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I think the roster decisions on the Pack WR's is going to be very interesting. Nelson fell off the face of the earth once Rodgers went out. I think with Rodgers back next year, you can get another productive year out of him (he'll be 33), and he's on a reasonable number and an expiring contract. However, cutting him frees up $10 mil in space. There's somewhat of a fascinating dilemma going around the NFL with wideouts coming off the fourth year of their rookie deal. You saw the Bears last year let Jeffrey walk, Sammy Watkins will hit the market, and the Dolphins will probably let Jarvis Landry walk. I think Adams is better than those guys, and he'd get the biggest deal on the open market. I think the Pack have roughly $15 mil in cap space, would they cut Nelson to sign Adams? I'm also curious if they're going to re-do Rodgers deal, because Garoppolo and Brees are about to fall into the top five of highest paid QB's in some order, and Cousins will most likely be back in the top three as well again next year.
And one of the more interesting receivers to hit the market this year will be Martavis Bryant. Loads of talent, has had some off-field issues. Will be interesting to see what kind of deal he gets, I don't see him returning to Pittsburgh.
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I think the roster decisions on the Pack WR's is going to be very interesting. Nelson fell off the face of the earth once Rodgers went out. I think with Rodgers back next year, you can get another productive year out of him (he'll be 33), and he's on a reasonable number and an expiring contract. However, cutting him frees up $10 mil in space. There's somewhat of a fascinating dilemma going around the NFL with wideouts coming off the fourth year of their rookie deal. You saw the Bears last year let Jeffrey walk, Sammy Watkins will hit the market, and the Dolphins will probably let Jarvis Landry walk. I think Adams is better than those guys, and he'd get the biggest deal on the open market. I think the Pack have roughly $15 mil in cap space, would they cut Nelson to sign Adams? I'm also curious if they're going to re-do Rodgers deal, because Garoppolo and Brees are about to fall into the top five of highest paid QB's in some order, and Cousins will most likely be back in the top three as well again next year.
Cobb is much more likely IMO
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Cobb is much more likely IMO
I thought so earlier in the year, but Jordy has just looked slow, so I'm not really sure. But they won't both be back (unless they agree to a restructured contract).
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I thought so earlier in the year, but Jordy has just looked slow, so I'm not really sure. But they won't both be back (unless they agree to a restructured contract).
Betting Jordy restructures....he knows how good he has it with Rodgers and would not fair well in the open market. Adams is a must resign IMHO. Yes he now has some concussion concerns but he is by far the Packers best receiver. (which probably means TT let's him go...god I hate that dude).
Also curious what they do with Ty Montgomery, I think it's clear he'd be a 3rd string RB....do they move him back to receiver?
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Betting Jordy restructures....he knows how good he has it with Rodgers and would not fair well in the open market. Adams is a must resign IMHO. Yes he now has some concussion concerns but he is by far the Packers best receiver. (which probably means TT let's him go...god I hate that dude).
Also curious what they do with Ty Montgomery, I think it's clear he'd be a 3rd string RB....do they move him back to receiver?
I think so. I think he becomes Cobb. He's not as quick (not sure it's close), but he's big, strong, good with (John Madden voice) YAC yards. Gives us flexibility to come into the backfield as change of pace.
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Guess that whole "Let's blame the NFL for my company's struggles" strategy didn't work out as Papa John hoped.
NEW YORK — Papa John’s founder John Schnatter will step down as CEO next month, about two months after he publicly criticized the NFL leadership over national anthem protests by football players — comments for which the company later apologized.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/papa-johns-founder-out-as-ceo-weeks-after-nfl-comments/2017/12/21/fa1cb160-e698-11e7-927a-e72eac1e73b6_story.html?utm_term=.f0bbba133aa9
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Guess that whole "Let's blame the NFL for my company's struggles" strategy didn't works out as Papa John hoped.
NEW YORK — Papa John’s founder John Schnatter will step down as CEO next month, about two months after he publicly criticized the NFL leadership over national anthem protests by football players — comments for which the company later apologized.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/papa-johns-founder-out-as-ceo-weeks-after-nfl-comments/2017/12/21/fa1cb160-e698-11e7-927a-e72eac1e73b6_story.html?utm_term=.f0bbba133aa9
he's gonna start an XFL franchise isn't he
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Guess that whole "Let's blame the NFL for my company's struggles" strategy didn't works out as Papa John hoped.
NEW YORK — Papa John’s founder John Schnatter will step down as CEO next month, about two months after he publicly criticized the NFL leadership over national anthem protests by football players — comments for which the company later apologized.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/papa-johns-founder-out-as-ceo-weeks-after-nfl-comments/2017/12/21/fa1cb160-e698-11e7-927a-e72eac1e73b6_story.html?utm_term=.f0bbba133aa9
That Freedom of Speech thing can be overrated sometimes - exercising his right cost him a cool $84 mil.
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That's an effen classic.
What a d-bag.
You gotta know he's one of the people who thinks the anthem thing hurt the NFL, so it's hilarious that his anti-NFL thing was hurting his company.
Yeah, the NFL is horribly damaged. Just wait till everybody sees the price some ownership group is gonna pay for the Panthers, a middle-of-the-pack team from a "desirability" viewpoint.
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https://nypost.com/2017/12/21/nba-enjoys-ratings-renaissance-as-nfl-flounders/
Meanwhile NBA ratings are soaring. It’s a good thing it’s players and coaches never talk about politics and just play the game.
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https://nypost.com/2017/12/21/nba-enjoys-ratings-renaissance-as-nfl-flounders/
Meanwhile NBA ratings are soaring. It’s a good thing it’s players and coaches never talk about politics and just play the game.
It remains amazing to me the NFL owners just extended Goodell...
Meanwhile, the NFL is being penalized for a lack of focus, according to Sturner.
Its story lines these days encompass a panoramic sweep of protest rights, brain-damage risks, squabbling owners, media oversaturation, even subpar play.
“You don’t get any of that at basketball games,” Sturner said. “You just get action.”
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https://nypost.com/2017/12/21/nba-enjoys-ratings-renaissance-as-nfl-flounders/
Meanwhile NBA ratings are soaring. It’s a good thing it’s players and coaches never talk about politics and just play the game.
Indeed, of its two most marketable players - LeBron and Steph - the first called the president a "bum," and the second told the president what he could do with his White House visit.
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Meanwhile NBA ratings are soaring. It’s a good thing it’s players and coaches never talk about politics and just play the game.
Indeed, of its two most marketable players - LeBron and Steph - the first called the president a "bum," and the second told the president what he could do with his White House visit.
Not at all apples to apples.
Those actions were off the court and neither was viewed as disrespecting the military. They were direct shots at the C of C. Their message was not going to be misconstrued. Even going back to the "I Can't Breathe" shirts the Cavs and Nets wore in warm-ups - those were in response to a very specific event. The NFL protests were much more vague and left room for interpretation.
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Not at all apples to apples.
Those actions were off the court and neither was viewed as disrespecting the military. They were direct shots at the C of C. Their message was not going to be misconstrued. Even going back to the "I Can't Breathe" shirts the Cavs and Nets wore in warm-ups - those were in response to a very specific event. The NFL protests were much more vague and left room for interpretation.
So you think the people who take issue with the NFL protests looked at the Cavs and Nets wearing "I Can't Breathe" shirts and said, "Cool, no problem!"?
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So you think the people who take issue with the NFL protests looked at the Cavs and Nets wearing "I Can't Breathe" shirts and said, "Cool, no problem!"?
Of course not...and I never said that they did.
I'm not saying that one form of protest was right, wrong or otherwise. I'm simply pointing out that comparing the NFL protest to NBA players speaking their minds on specific issues is not a very good comparison.
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Of course not...and I never said that they did.
I'm not saying that one form of protest was right, wrong or otherwise. I'm simply pointing out that comparing the NFL protest to NBA players speaking their minds on specific issues is not a very good comparison.
I think it speaks more to the younger, more multi-cultural audience of the NBA more than anything.
Regardless, I think the point is that those who claim that the protests were the reason for the NFL ratings decline are not seeing the whole picture. If the NFL owners are going to use that to reassure themselves that everything else is just fine, they are going to be in for a rude awakening.
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I think it speaks more to the younger, more multi-cultural audience of the NBA more than anything.
Regardless, I think the point is that those who claim that the protests were the reason for the NFL ratings decline are not seeing the whole picture. If the NFL owners are going to use that to reassure themselves that everything else is just fine, they are going to be in for a rude awakening.
To add to this, I think the protest uproar is a symptom/reflection - rather than the disease - of the toxic relationship between the league and the NFLPA. Under Silver, the NBA has made a good relationship with the PA a clear public relations goal, and I think that's paying dividends.
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To add to this, I think the protest uproar is a symptom/reflection - rather than the disease - of the toxic relationship between the league and the NFLPA. Under Silver, the NBA has made a good relationship with the PA a clear public relations goal, and I think that's paying dividends.
This is key. It allows NBA players and coaches to be themselves without it detracting from the product. And because of that, there are rules about the anthem etc that no one complains about.
If the NFL wanted to fix it, they would need to replace leadership. But even though they've been 'struggling' relative to their standards, they are still the standard-bearer. You can deal with the controversy if the checks are still coming in. So even if they want to fix it, it's not priority #1, so they don't REALLY want to fix it.
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That's an effen classic.
What a d-bag.
You gotta know he's one of the people who thinks the anthem thing hurt the NFL, so it's hilarious that his anti-NFL thing was hurting his company.
Yeah, the NFL is horribly damaged. Just wait till everybody sees the price some ownership group is gonna pay for the Panthers, a middle-of-the-pack team from a "desirability" viewpoint.
we shall see how much someone is willing to pay for carolina today as opposed to what they were worth say, at the end of last year. in the mean time-this just out-
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/12/22/ravens-cite-anthem-protest-as-one-reason-for-higher-no-shows/
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we shall see how much someone is willing to pay for carolina today as opposed to what they were worth say, at the end of last year. in the mean time-this just out-
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/12/22/ravens-cite-anthem-protest-as-one-reason-for-higher-no-shows/
I'm merely amused that the team President's name is Dick Cass.
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we shall see how much someone is willing to pay for carolina today as opposed to what they were worth say, at the end of last year. in the mean time-this just out-
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/12/22/ravens-cite-anthem-protest-as-one-reason-for-higher-no-shows/
Huh. Another top executive blaming his company's poor performance on kneeling players.
Worked out well for the last guy who tried it, I suppose.
How much were the Panthers worth last year is unknowable.
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we shall see how much someone is willing to pay for carolina today as opposed to what they were worth say, at the end of last year.
There's no way to know how much they were worth. The Forbes list (which said $2.3 billion this year) and others like it are just guesses. The Clippers sold for much more than the Forbes list had claimed they were worth. A team is worth exactly what somebody will pay for it, not one penny more or less.
The Panthers will bring the highest price of any team ever sold in one of the 4 major American sports leagues. Numerous groups already have said they want to buy them despite knowing that the price will be astronomical.
There has been talk of $3 billion - which would be 50% more than the Clippers, the previous highest-price sale. I wouldn't be surprised.
I have not heard word of anybody saying, "You know, I just not interested because of the anthem thingy." Have you?
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Y'all aren't purposely trying to get this thread locked (or as the kids call it these days 'Dick Cassed') the day before the -9 Vikings show up are you?
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Y'all aren't purposely trying to get this thread locked (or as the kids call it these days 'Dick Cassed') the day before the -9 Vikings show up are you?
I heard the Vikings were behind the events at Lambeau today. Rumor has it they were trying to break into the Hall of Fame to get their hands on a Lombardi trophy
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Why'd the Vikings make their roof out of glass?
Because they don't need it for their trophy case.
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As long as were telling jokes:
Aaron Rodgers runs into A. Barr. The bartender says: Get up! What's the matter with you, can't you handle a single shot?
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As long as were telling jokes:
Aaron Rodgers runs into A. Barr. The bartender says: Get up! What's the matter with you, can't you handle a single shot?
You forgot the ending of the joke:
Aaron Rodgers responds, "No, this ring on my finger is too damn heavy, it's hard to get up! I guess you wouldn't know."
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And then both of them say in unison, "Aw, eff it; neither one of us can beat the Panthers!"
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And then both of them say in unison, "Aw, eff it; neither one of us can beat the Panthers!"
Who can never get far enough to see the Packers in the Playoffs!
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Who can never get far enough to see the Packers in the Playoffs!
They'd have to look backward to see them this year - which, of course, is the only year that matters. Until next year, when that will be the only year that matters.
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Any football on tonight?
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SKOL VIKINGS! We are going to own Lambeau tonight. It's ours.
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SKOL VIKINGS! We are going to own Lambeau tonight. It's ours.
Capers will sell it to you dirt cheap. Already seeing mixups and guys out of position. Happens every game.
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SKOL VIKINGS! We are going to own Lambeau tonight. It's ours.
There is no rational Packer fan that would disagree with you.
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I feel like I'm watching a preseason game.
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I feel like I'm watching a preseason game.
I am about as emotionally invested as I am in the pre season.
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I am about as emotionally invested as I am in the pre season.
I'm more invested pre season and I'm usually drunk by game time.
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I feel like I'm watching a preseason game.
Can't wait for that Browns V Bears throw down tomorrow.
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Fookin’ #11 is just an outright moron, hey?
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Can't wait for that Browns V Bears throw down tomorrow.
I'm actually excited for it.
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Browns were more impressive against GB than the Queens were.
One and done.
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Browns were more impressive against GB than the Queens were.
One and done.
#ShutOut
#ShutUp
#SKOL
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It looks like the Browns may be able to get their QB of the future off the wire...
https://sports.yahoo.com/teams-think-aaron-rodgers-released-150049119.html
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It looks like the Browns may be able to get their QB of the future off the wire...
https://sports.yahoo.com/teams-think-aaron-rodgers-released-150049119.html
Erin 2 Skol
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Browns were more impressive against GB than the Queens were.
One and done.
I didn't watch the Browns Packers game but I'll take your finely honed, non bitter, and unbiased observation that the 0-14 team that gave up 27 points at Cle in a loss to GB was more impressive than the 13-3 team that shut out GB at GB.
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#ShutOut
#ShutUp
#SKOL
Cool!!!!
A Dickey Simpkins fan.
#beatadeadhorse
#superbowltrophiesnomatta
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The Queens are not going anywhere in the Playoffs. But that surprises nobody, at least I would hope.
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The Queens are not going anywhere in the Playoffs. But that surprises nobody, at least I would hope.
Already gonna be in the second weekend of playoffs, bud. What's your definition of 'not going anywhere'?
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Already gonna be in the second weekend of playoffs, bud. What's your definition of 'not going anywhere'?
Congrats! I remember when making it to the Divisional Round was a big deal! Wait, no I don’t.
Let me know when that trophy case has something in it.
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The Vikings are actually pretty darn good Wades. That defense is dominant, Case Keenum looks more than capable and Latavius Murray and Jerrick McKinnon have done just enough in Cook's absence.
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The Vikings are actually pretty darn good Wades. That defense is dominant, Case Keenum looks more than capable and Latavius Murray and Jerrick McKinnon have done just enough in Cook's absence.
Don't try to have a rational discussion with wades.
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Brady or Elliott suspension?
http://es.pn/2DH1yYG
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Don't try to have a rational discussion with wades.
Would you like to wager when the Vikings season ends? Would love some easy cash.
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Bears/Browns wasn't the fun bad I was hoping for.
Niners are going to be really good next year (barring injuries).
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Would you like to wager when the Vikings season ends? Would love some easy cash.
Well, that's easy. It ends when they have to play the Panthers again!
BTW, there was never a doubt the Panthers would beat the Bucs. I mean, Cam even "dribbled" the ball to himself before taking it across the goal line for the winning score!
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Brady or Elliott suspension?
http://es.pn/2DH1yYG
Rodgers won't be punished. It wasn't his decision or his doing.
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Rodgers won't be punished. It wasn't his decision or his doing.
Nor should he be.
But it sure looks like the Packers have to release him.
Call me crazy, but I have a feeling the market for his services would be fairly strong.
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Talk of Packers losing several draft picks because of the Rodgers situation. Speculation on some sites. That would piss me off to no end about this staff.
As far as the game goes, how many drops by our receivers? Poor play.
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Rodgers won't be punished. It wasn't his decision or his doing.
Tom Brady didn’t let the air out of the balls either...
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The rule is in place to prevent teams from stashing players on IR. Rodgers isn’t being stashed.
A fine or draft picks would be appropriate but completely unnecessary. All they had to do is fake some sort of injury and no one would have cared.
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Add TJ Yates to the long list of evidence in support of kapernick being intentionally ignored
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Talk of Packers losing several draft picks because of the Rodgers situation. Speculation on some sites. That would piss me off to no end about this staff.
As far as the game goes, how many drops by our receivers? Poor play.
packers are so stacked, don't need the picks anyway, aaaa n'a?
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If I were Rodgers, I'd send a copy of this Derek Carr game to Ted Thompson.
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wades:
Had we made that Panthers-Patriots-playoffs bet, it would have been a push.
I must have been out of my mind to think there was even a chance that the Patriots wouldn't make the playoffs in that weakarse division/conference. If you have Belichick and Brady, you're a mortal lock - period. It's like when the Bulls had Jackson and Jordan.
As for the Panthers, I think they are quite underrated. Great front 7 on D, solid O line, dynamic QB, very good special teams. Just enough flaws to keep games too interesting for this Panthers fan, but a darn good team.
Looking forward to the playoffs. After watching some recent Eagles and Vikings games, I think my boyz have as good a chance as anybody. Frankly, the Saints and Rams scare me most.
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Looking forward to the playoffs. After watching some recent Eagles and Vikings games, I think my boyz have as good a chance as anybody. Frankly, the Saints and Rams scare me most.
The NFC playoffs are a damn gauntlet - I think every playoff team in the NFC (and the first team out) would be favored vs the third seed in the AFC on down. Assuming NE or Pit make the Super Bowl, the NFC will probably be an underdog, but its the much harder conference to make it out.
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wades:
Had we made that Panthers-Patriots-playoffs bet, it would have been a push.
I must have been out of my mind to think there was even a chance that the Patriots wouldn't make the playoffs in that weakarse division/conference. If you have Belichick and Brady, you're a mortal lock - period. It's like when the Bulls had Jackson and Jordan.
As for the Panthers, I think they are quite underrated. Great front 7 on D, solid O line, dynamic QB, very good special teams. Just enough flaws to keep games too interesting for this Panthers fan, but a darn good team.
Looking forward to the playoffs. After watching some recent Eagles and Vikings games, I think my boyz have as good a chance as anybody. Frankly, the Saints and Rams scare me most.
Honestly would be shocked if Philadelphia or Minnesota came out of the NFC. Carolina, LAR, and New Orleans look by far the best out of the NFC teams. I'd even add Atlanta if they make the playoffs. Seattle has too many holes. The Eagles without Wentz are the most vulnerable #1 seed that I can remember.
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Crapshoot, ai na?
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The Panthers will bring the highest price of any team ever sold in one of the 4 major American sports leagues. Numerous groups already have said they want to buy them despite knowing that the price will be astronomical.
There has been talk of $3 billion - which would be 50% more than the Clippers, the previous highest-price sale. I wouldn't be surprised.
Every time the sports franchise "bubble" gets brought up, the bear-marketers end up looking stupid, and prices keep going up and up and up. BUUUUT at the risk of sounding ignorant - we have to be getting there, don't we? From my understanding, the Panthers' key selling point will be their ability to escape Charlotte without much cost, to enable them to either fleece a new stadium from NC or elsewhere. But we just saw two teams get shoehorned into LA for lack of better options. There is no hot, go-to market without a team right now. Both LA and LV got their teams, but so far the whole thing has been met with a shrug. That charade might finally be winding down.
And all the other indicators suggest this is not as great an investment as it used to be. From a revenue standpoint, broadcasters are shedding personnel to pay for the inflated tv contracts. That will eventually filter back to the franchises as the deals come up. Putting the anthem protest aside, market saturation, middling product, brain injuries are all problems that aren't going to go away soon.
And from a cost standpoint, the current CBA runs through 2021, and I don't see any way the owners get this good of a deal again. From a 30,000 ft standpoint, the NFL has the most ownership friendly agreement in sports, and football is the most brutal, injury prone and health hazardous sport we have. In a vacuum, you'd have to think that the NFL's CBAs start to migrate at least partially toward a MLB-style model of loose salary caps and guaranteed contracts. Even small movements in that direction could have pretty big impacts on the bottom line.
If Richardson can get $2.5 billion, good for him, I guess - but its hard to see how these franchises predict to enjoy the kind of profit growth for the next ten years that they have over the last ten.
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Every time the sports franchise "bubble" gets brought up, the bear-marketers end up looking stupid, and prices keep going up and up and up. BUUUUT at the risk of sounding ignorant - we have to be getting there, don't we? From my understanding, the Panthers' key selling point will be their ability to escape Charlotte without much cost, to enable them to either fleece a new stadium from NC or elsewhere. But we just saw two teams get shoehorned into LA for lack of better options. There is no hot, go-to market without a team right now. Both LA and LV got their teams, but so far the whole thing has been met with a shrug. That charade might finally be winding down.
And all the other indicators suggest this is not as great an investment as it used to be. From a revenue standpoint, broadcasters are shedding personnel to pay for the inflated tv contracts. That will eventually filter back to the franchises as the deals come up. Putting the anthem protest aside, market saturation, middling product, brain injuries are all problems that aren't going to go away soon.
And from a cost standpoint, the current CBA runs through 2021, and I don't see any way the owners get this good of a deal again. From a 30,000 ft standpoint, the NFL has the most ownership friendly agreement in sports, and football is the most brutal, injury prone and health hazardous sport we have. In a vacuum, you'd have to think that the NFL's CBAs start to migrate at least partially toward a MLB-style model of loose salary caps and guaranteed contracts. Even small movements in that direction could have pretty big impacts on the bottom line.
If Richardson can get $2.5 billion, good for him, I guess - but its hard to see how these franchises predict to enjoy the kind of profit growth for the next ten years that they have over the last ten.
Honestly, I've been saying "we have to be getting there" for some time. I've been wrong.
Unless Richardson gives a major "hometown discount" to local buyers, I would be stunned if the Panthers sale didn't set a new record. I'm not sure his fellow owners would even let him give a discount if he wanted to.
From my understanding, the key selling points are:
1. A growing, demographically favorable market (Charlotte is one of the country's fastest-growing metro areas, both overall and among Millennials) that has already proven very capable of supporting an NFL team, even in the years the team has sucked.
2. Belief that franchise values, especially in the NFL, never go down. Maybe you're right and they will eventually - they HAVE to! - but maybe not. It's a cash-cow league. And even if things start to turn bad ... they share revenue with the players, so if that happens they will just be able to give less to the players. It works in good times and bad.
3. The stadium thing you mentioned. Even though our stadium is still in excellent shape and just received big-money improvements paid mostly by taxpayers, sure, I'd be surprised if new ownership didn't demand more. Whether that demand would include a threat to leave, I'm not sure. How many markets are there willing and capable of supporting an NFL franchise to the point of building a $1 billion-plus stadium?
It will be interesting to watch this all unfold.
Go Panthers! (And I don't mean go to St. Louis or San Diego!)
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Go Panthers! (And I don't mean go to St. Louis or San Diego!)
Not to derail, but does anyone really think St Louis would get another team? They’ve lost two teams in the last 30 years, they aren’t that big of a market nor a growing market and they drew pretty horribly their last years. So I don’t see it even as a make-good.
I think International or San Antonio would be the most likely
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Not to derail, but does anyone really think St Louis would get another team? They’ve lost two teams in the last 30 years, they aren’t that big of a market nor a growing market and they drew pretty horribly their last years. So I don’t see it even as a make-good.
I think International or San Antonio would be the most likely
Great point about St. Louis. There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on ... shame on you. Fool me ... you can't get fooled again.
As for San Antonio, they've been on "the list" for many years now and never seem to be even among the finalists when one of these situations arises. Maybe it would be real this time.
It is pretty obvious the league wants a team in London.
Jacksonville is STILL a crap market that is too small and doesn't draw fans unless the team is winning big (and fights to draw even then). I would think they'd be the first to go anywhere. But this Panthers ownership change certainly puts them in play.
I like to think the region's demographics and trends, combined with 15 years of consecutive sellouts, would continue to make Charlotte the most attractive location of all by far for the Panthers. But the Colts and Browns obviously had incredibly loyal followings, and that didn't matter, so I presume nothing.
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Oakland...
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Oakland...
Do I need to pull up Dubya's "fool me once" quote again?
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Steelers cut James Harrison ... and the Patriots just signed him.
Harrison will probably be a superstar in the playoffs, make a couple of huge plays against the Steelers in the AFC title game, and return a fumble for the winning TD in the Super Bowl.
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Oakland...
I can see Oakland not wanting another new team if its not the Raiders.
I think Mexico City is an intriguing possibility. Opens up a new market, NFL has already done tests at Azteca, and its a shorter flight from almost all Midwestern/Northeastern teams than LA or Seattle, so the travel isn't an issue.
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I can see Oakland not wanting another new team if its not the Raiders.
Wanting? Yes. Paying for a new stadium? No
http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/article187655453.html
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Oakland...
My best guess is the San Francisco 49ers will stop that with all their might.
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Haven't seen the guaranteed portion yet, but the Adams re-signing seems like a good deal for both sides. I think he got about market value, we'll see where the guarantees lie in the front end, but seems fair. It's now certain that either Cobb or Nelson (or both) will be gone next year.
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The Ice Bowl happened 50 years ago today. Great article in today's Journal/Sentinel. It's a long read, but worth it. I was only nine, but know two folks that attended: a close friend who went with his father, and my father-in-law, who loves to tell a tale concerning getting a cup of hot chocolate during the third quarter, when someone bumped into him and it spilled on his leather coat, and turned into instant ice crystals.
Anyway, here's the article:
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2017/12/28/ice-bowl-50-years-later-oral-history-packers-cowboys-1967-nfl-championship-game/962212001/
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Word is that Capers is out after today, with Fangio being the first replacement target.
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Word is that Capers is out after today, with Fangio being the first replacement target.
Fantastic.
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Word is that Capers is out after today, with Fangio being the first replacement target.
SB!
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Losing season for green bey, another NFC Championship for the CONSENSUS, first round bye for the Vikings... not a bad regular season. Let's run through the playoffs now!!!!!!
SKOL!
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Losing season for green bey, another NFC Championship for the CONSENSUS, first round bye for the Vikings... not a bad regular season. Let's run through the playoffs now!!!!!!
SKOL!
NFC Championship? Another? Vikings? Huh?
#notsmart
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NFC Championship? Another? Vikings? Huh?
#notsmart
They can put it in the case with their SB trophies.
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Word is that Capers is out after today, with Fangio being the first replacement target.
Fangio has made no secret that he's heading out to the west coast.
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Caldwell likely gone, Matt Patricia the first choice.
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Fangio has made no secret that he's heading out to the west coast.
West coast of Lake Michigan?
Are there any West Coast DC gigs open? Maybe Oakland, if Gruden goes there, but he's never had a 3-4 coordinator. Don't see any coaching changes in LA, Seattle or San Francisco. Is Arizona close enough?
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Word is that Capers is out after today, with Fangio being the first replacement target.
Hope he takes Hundley wit ‘im, ai na?
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Caldwell likely gone, Matt Patricia the first choice.
Knot Milton Plum, hey?
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West coast of Lake Michigan?
Are there any West Coast DC gigs open? Maybe Oakland, if Gruden goes there, but he's never had a 3-4 coordinator. Don't see any coaching changes in LA, Seattle or San Francisco. Is Arizona close enough?
I phrased that poorly. He has made no secret his desire to move back to the west coast.
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Finally!!
Rotoworld said it best:
"Although never quite terrible, Capers' defenses annually left something to be desired. Overachieving was never on the list of potential outcomes."
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Finally!!
Rotoworld said it best:
"Although never quite terrible, Capers' defenses annually left something to be desired. Overachieving was never on the list of potential outcomes."
I think the last 3 years qualifies as terrible to me. The concerning thing was the same errors being made over and over.
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Ted Thompson out. That's not going to be good news for McCarthy.
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Ted Thompson out. That's not going to be good news for McCarthy.
No, thompson needed to go. I hope McCarthy stays I think he is still a good coach. packers should promote Elliot wolf
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Ted is staying with the organization. Mac is safe as can be. Everyone held accountable...except for him.
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Ted is staying with the organization. Mac is safe as can be. Everyone held accountable...except for him.
in what capacity
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in what capacity
Not sure. Just said expected to remain with the organization in a different roll.
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Not sure. Just said expected to remain with the organization in a different roll.
he deserves to go out with dignity but they have some young guys that they will lose if they don't give them a chance
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Mac's not going anywhere. He'll get total control of all future coaching hires. And the new GM will either be a well groomed internal candidate or a Packer's disciple like Schneider, Dorsey, or McKenzie. All likely have 'outs' in their current contract if the Green and Gold ever calls.
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Ted is staying with the organization. Mac is safe as can be. Everyone held accountable...except for him.
IMO they want Ted around for the draft. My guess is after that he will basically be gone.
I hope for John Schneider, but regardless my largest hope is that they don't give McCarthy more of a personnel role. I don't think he's been a bad coach by any means, but the GM overseeing all football operations needs to stay in place. And if the new GM wants to fire McCarthy on Day 1, I am fine with that.
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Pro Football Talk also mentions that Dorsey may be intrigued by the position given that the owner wants Hue Jackson around. The lack of an egotistical owner to answer to makes the position even more desirable.
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All likely have 'outs' in their current contract if the Green and Gold ever calls.
Aaron Nagler is saying Schneider no longer is that clause. It didn't sound like he was certain, but thought it was removed.
I'm personally surprised they pulled the trigger. I wonder if Ted was ready to be done or there is some sort of health issue that keeps him from being able to carry out the role of GM.
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The lack of an out-clause doesn't mean it can't happen. If he's their guy, he's worth a first round pick.
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Not sure. Just said expected to remain with the organization in a different roll.
role.
you do this a lot.
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The lack of an out-clause doesn't mean it can't happen. If he's their guy, he's worth a first round pick.
hell no he isn't. they have highly sought after guys in house. gutenkust, wolf, ball all would be good choices.
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hell no he isn't. they have highly sought after guys in house. gutenkust, wolf, ball all would be good choices.
I said "if he's their choice." And yes, if they are convinced that he is the best candidate for the position, trading a first round pick would be fine by me. Better than saying "oh well, let's hire Wolf instead."
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I said "if he's their choice." And yes, if they are convinced that he is the best candidate for the position, trading a first round pick would be fine by me. Better than saying "oh well, let's hire Wolf instead."
certainly not unheard of for coaches in particular but I think giving up the 14th pick for a gm would be a mistake. Schneider is not that much better than other candidates. i wouldn't be ok with it. besides could you see TT in an advisory role recommending giving up the 14th pick. it's not happening.
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I'm not convinced John Schneider is a great GM let alone one you give us the 14th overall pick for. Yes Schneider put together good defensive personnel but the Oline has been criminal in Seattle and Green Bay's is in need of a rebuild after this season with a high priority to keep Rodgers off the injury list
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I'm not convinced John Schneider is a great GM let alone one you give us the 14th overall pick for. Yes Schneider put together good defensive personnel but the Oline has been criminal in Seattle and Green Bay's is in need of a rebuild after this season with a high priority to keep Rodgers off the injury list
I agree. plus Seattle has salary cap issues and an aging defense. they may drop off significantly in the next few years.
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I'm not convinced John Schneider is a great GM let alone one you give us the 14th overall pick for. Yes Schneider put together good defensive personnel but the Oline has been criminal in Seattle and Green Bay's is in need of a rebuild after this season with a high priority to keep Rodgers off the injury list
I’m much more convinced Schneider is a good GM than I am Gutenkusr, Wolf, or Ball. Same with Dorsey.
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I’m much more convinced Schneider is a good GM than I am Gutenkusr, Wolf, or Ball. Same with Dorsey.
i would rather have a bright up and comer than a retread. those guys have been around the system long enough to do a good job.
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i would rather have a bright up and comer than a retread. those guys have been around the system long enough to do a good job.
John Schneider is 46 years old. He was the director of player personnel when the 2010 Super Bowl team was built. I would hardly call him a retread.
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John Schneider is 46 years old. He was the director of player personnel when the 2010 Super Bowl team was built. I would hardly call him a retread.
Yeah. And John Dorsey took over an awful KC organization (1 Playoff appearance in the 6 years prior to his arrival, last place in their division 4 of those 6 years, 2-14 the year before he took over) and took them to 4 Playoffs in 5 seasons (including this year, where he left mid season).
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I read on a Packers board that right now Schneider only has control of the 90-man roster. Carroll has control of the 53-man roster. So, they wouldn’t have to make a trade if he’d get full control in GB. It’s only message board chatter, so may not be accurate. Interesting if that’s the case though.
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Ted is staying with the organization. Mac is safe as can be. Everyone held accountable...except for him.
MM has been a pretty good coach. His one big failing was the failure to hold coaches to accountability.
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MM has been a pretty good coach. His one big failing was the failure to hold coaches to accountability.
I’ve been of the belief he should’ve been left off the airplane in Seattle a few years ago.
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Yeah. And John Dorsey took over an awful KC organization (1 Playoff appearance in the 6 years prior to his arrival, last place in their division 4 of those 6 years, 2-14 the year before he took over) and took them to 4 Playoffs in 5 seasons (including this year, where he left mid season).
actually would rather have Dorsey than Schneider. obviously either would be good gets. all I'm saying is no need to give up draft choices when you have qualified people on your staff and more than one. to me a highly thought of person on your own staff is the way to go. we will see soon enough.
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Mac's not going anywhere. He'll get total control of all future coaching hires. And the new GM will either be a well groomed internal candidate or a Packer's disciple like Schneider, Dorsey, or McKenzie. All likely have 'outs' in their current contract if the Green and Gold ever calls.
Dorsey was hired by the Browns a month ago.
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I don't know how you guys can say McCarthy is safe. He's got a year left on his deal and a new GM coming on. By NFL definition, his seat is at least warm as of this hour. Textbook definition of a coach who should be worried.
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I don't know how you guys can say McCarthy is safe. He's got a year left on his deal and a new GM coming on. By NFL definition, his seat is at least warm as of this hour. Textbook definition of a coach who should be worried.
Hope you're right. I would be beyond shocked.
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Eliot wolf in as gm , tt, gone, doom capers gone, Mac stays
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I don't know how you guys can say McCarthy is safe. He's got a year left on his deal and a new GM coming on. By NFL definition, his seat is at least warm as of this hour. Textbook definition of a coach who should be worried.
Never know what a new GM will do, but if they stay in house for the GM, which appears most likely, his first order of business will probably be to extend McCarthy for at least a year.
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This is probably where we find out what Rodgers really thinks of McCarthy, aina?
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Never know what a new GM will do, but if they stay in house for the GM, which appears most likely, his first order of business will probably be to extend McCarthy for at least a year.
This is now a unique situation, because even if they stay in house, you could have a power struggle on your hands. McCarthy potentially could even decide to walk away. His comments postgame on Sunday were somewhat cryptic.
There may be continuity that exists, and an in house GM simply extends McCarthy for a year, that makes sense. Any outside GM, I'd be surprised if McCarthy stays. Will be interesting to see how this plays out. If that job opens up, it's far and away the best job on the market.
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I think McCarthy better be careful if he thinks he can walk away and find himself in a better position. I don't think he's terrible, and undoubtedly he knows how to manage a locker room of younger players, but he's really only above average as a play caller and decidedly so-so on many other aspects of the job. Without Aaron Rodgers, and without an organization and shares his philosophy, I am not sure he succeeds elsewhere.
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I think McCarthy better be careful if he thinks he can walk away and find himself in a better position. I don't think he's terrible, and undoubtedly he knows how to manage a locker room of younger players, but he's really only above average as a play caller and decidedly so-so on many other aspects of the job. Without Aaron Rodgers, and without an organization and shares his philosophy, I am not sure he succeeds elsewhere.
+1
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Mike’s ass might get a lot warmer wit da new GM hire, ai na?
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This is now a unique situation, because even if they stay in house, you could have a power struggle on your hands. McCarthy potentially could even decide to walk away. His comments postgame on Sunday were somewhat cryptic.
There may be continuity that exists, and an in house GM simply extends McCarthy for a year, that makes sense. Any outside GM, I'd be surprised if McCarthy stays. Will be interesting to see how this plays out. If that job opens up, it's far and away the best job on the market.
New GM usually is the death knell for the current coach, but if they stay in house for the new gm who knows how he feels about McCarthy.
The wild card in all of this may be Aaron Rodgers and how much influence he has. At times, it looks like he is at odds with Mac. Is Rodgers arrogant enough to make an ultimatum? Yes, all of this will be interesting. My guess and my hope is, Wolf as gm, Fangio as def co-ordinater and Mac stays as coach.
BTW who makes the call on Def co-ordinator? Is that McCarthys call? or new gm call, if Mac is leaving why would they let him pick the def cor. Seems to me that they would need new gm in place first, then decision on coach then def cor.
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The new details coming out from McGinn and others would suggest perhaps (key word) the reason Thompson is getting pushed out was his unwillingness to fire McCarthy. Whether that's accurate or not, I guess we'll see shortly. Interesting week ahead in Green Bay, any new GM is also going to have to immediately address Rodgers contract.
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The new details coming out from McGinn and others would suggest perhaps (key word) the reason Thompson is getting pushed out was his unwillingness to fire McCarthy. Whether that's accurate or not, I guess we'll see shortly. Interesting week ahead in Green Bay, any new GM is also going to have to immediately address Rodgers contract.
That situation worked out well for AD and coach at Louisville
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The new details coming out from McGinn and others would suggest perhaps (key word) the reason Thompson is getting pushed out was his unwillingness to fire McCarthy. Whether that's accurate or not, I guess we'll see shortly. Interesting week ahead in Green Bay, any new GM is also going to have to immediately address Rodgers contract.
Some things I read and heard say that the BOD pressured Murphy to make the move on TT mainly because of tt's failing health and inability to focus. Take it for what its worth.
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McCarthy would look good with Stafford.
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Some things I read and heard say that the BOD pressured Murphy to make the move on TT mainly because of tt's failing health and inability to focus. Take it for what its worth.
Hmmm... If the Board had to take that step, that's not a good look for Murphy. Unless they are being the "bad guys." Also, I don't know if Packer fans should want the Board to be that active in these matters.
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Hmmm... If the Board had to take that step, that's not a good look for Murphy. Unless they are being the "bad guys." Also, I don't know if Packer fans should want the Board to be that active in these matters.
The BOD should not be making those decisions but they can voice their concerns.
TT being "not there" mentally was reported by Florio and his source was McGinn. In the same report, McGinn did say the BOD also had concerns with TT's unwillingness to fire McCarthy. So who knows, I'm not sure how credible McGinn is anymore, I used to think he was great, but now it seems like he has jumped the shark to some degree.
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McCarthy received an extension during the season.
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Reckless speculation on my end, but in my opinion, Harbaugh would be perfect in Green Bay, assuming the GM and him had plans for personnel people. He'd convince Fangio to go there too.
I'm much more intrigued by what's going on in GB than in Chicago.
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In reading Mark Murphy's press conference quotes, I am firmly of the belief that this will be an internal promotion, McCarthy will be the coach, and he will hire the new DC.
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Reckless speculation on my end, but in my opinion, Harbaugh would be perfect in Green Bay, assuming the GM and him had plans for personnel people. He'd convince Fangio to go there too.
I'm much more intrigued by what's going on in GB than in Chicago.
If Harbaugh ends up in GB as anything other than an opposing coach.
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-11/10/16/enhanced/webdr02/anigif_enhanced-buzz-17261-1415655209-4.gif)
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The BOD should not be making those decisions but they can voice their concerns.
TT being "not there" mentally was reported by Florio and his source was McGinn. In the same report, McGinn did say the BOD also had concerns with TT's unwillingness to fire McCarthy. So who knows, I'm not sure how credible McGinn is anymore, I used to think he was great, but now it seems like he has jumped the shark to some degree.
McGinn is as good as it gets. Murphy and Thompson had discussed TT's health and commitment several times in the last year. TT has had several health issues the last two years and that was as big of a driver for Ted leaving as anything.
Who knows whether the next GM will want to keep MM or not. Probably depends on how they play next year. But the extension had to be done to get a new defensive coordinator. No one who is anyone would come to a team with a lame duck coach.
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If Harbaugh ends up in GB as anything other than an opposing coach.
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-11/10/16/enhanced/webdr02/anigif_enhanced-buzz-17261-1415655209-4.gif)
44-19 record in the pros, with three conference championship appearances and one Super Bowl appearance in four seasons.
You could do far, far worse.
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44-19 record in the pros, with three conference championship appearances and one Super Bowl appearance in four seasons.
You could do far, far worse.
Yeah and SF got tired of him. He has regressed each season while at Michigan despite almost infinite resources and visibility. Quite frankly, I think the man is a d!ck and I really don't want him near my team because I really don't want to have to go through all of this 4 or 5 years from now plus I don't think I could stand seeing him on the sideline each week.
It is at least in part irrational, but still...
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Yeah and SF got tired of him. He has regressed each season while at Michigan despite almost infinite resources and visibility. Quite frankly, I think the man is a d!ck and I really don't want him near my team because I really don't want to have to go through all of this 4 or 5 years from now plus I don't think I could stand seeing him on the sideline each week.
It is at least in part irrational, but still...
I'm not a Bears fan, as you know, but I have to agree with you here. I don't quite get the fascination with Harbaugh. Lots of coaches have had good runs - even runs that have included a Super Bowl. Fox was one of them. So was Lovie. So is Rivera. Many other examples.
By the only two measurements that Michigan fans care about - success vs. tOSU and playoff appearances - Harbaugh has not only has failed but has done so spectacularly. They're 0-3 vs the Buckeyes, losing by an average of 14 points, and haven't sniffed the 4-team playoff. That is abject failure on WolverineLand.
He managed to make enemies, act like a douche, and make a ton of money, but he didn't manage to accomplish a single thing that matters.
He fizzled out with the Niners, too, going 8-8 just 2 years after his unsuccessful Super Bowl appearance.
Could he orchestrate a quick turnaround and then take off a couple years later - kind of a football version of Scott Skiles? I suppose. Have fun with that!
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McGinn is as good as it gets. Murphy and Thompson had discussed TT's health and commitment several times in the last year. TT has had several health issues the last two years and that was as big of a driver for Ted leaving as anything.
Who knows whether the next GM will want to keep MM or not. Probably depends on how they play next year. But the extension had to be done to get a new defensive coordinator. No one who is anyone would come to a team with a lame duck coach.
McGinn was as good as it gets, I question how good he is now.
it is well known that tt had health issues, the part that is new is that bod pressured Murphy and that tt had focus or mental issues. also that some bod members were concerned about tt reluctance to fire mac.
as far as the McCarthy extension, that was done earlier in the season or pre season not specifically for him to hire a defensive cor. At the time he was extended they didn't know how the season would play out or that they would fire capers
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Yeah and SF got tired of him. He has regressed each season while at Michigan despite almost infinite resources and visibility. Quite frankly, I think the man is a d!ck and I really don't want him near my team because I really don't want to have to go through all of this 4 or 5 years from now plus I don't think I could stand seeing him on the sideline each week.
It is at least in part irrational, but still...
Ta say nothin’ of his leech-a-long brother-in-law standin’ on da sidelines holdin’ his johnson, hey?
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McGinn was as good as it gets, I question how good he is now.
Flinging mud at the wall. I'm sure he is upset that you "question how good he is now".
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McGinn was up front and honest in assessing the strengths and weaknesses of the Packers from the front office, to the coaching staff, to the players. McGinn has never been a guy with "insider" connections. I take his report on the TT issue with a great deal of salt.
Does TT have health issues that he is dealing with? Sure. Did those issues require the board to force Murphy's hand? I doubt that.
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Flinging mud at the wall. I'm sure he is upset that you "question how good he is now".
lol, do you really think I'm trying to make Bob mc Ginnn upset. I assure you he doesn't know me and dosent care what i think.
It's my opinion, you can have your own, its not slinging mud at the wall. Since he left the journal and started on his own he hasn't been as good and some of the things he says are proven to be false. You can like him and think he is great your perogative.
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McGinn was up front and honest in assessing the strengths and weaknesses of the Packers from the front office, to the coaching staff, to the players. McGinn has never been a guy with "insider" connections. I take his report on the TT issue with a great deal of salt.
Does TT have health issues that he is dealing with? Sure. Did those issues require the board to force Murphy's hand? I doubt that.
that's my point, sometimes he says things that are a stretch and later are proven false. Loved his takes on the team, his grades and analysis but now he is doing other stuff.
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I'm not a Bears fan, as you know, but I have to agree with you here. I don't quite get the fascination with Harbaugh. Lots of coaches have had good runs - even runs that have included a Super Bowl. Fox was one of them. So was Lovie. So is Rivera. Many other examples.
By the only two measurements that Michigan fans care about - success vs. tOSU and playoff appearances - Harbaugh has not only has failed but has done so spectacularly. They're 0-3 vs the Buckeyes, losing by an average of 14 points, and haven't sniffed the 4-team playoff. That is abject failure on WolverineLand.
He managed to make enemies, act like a douche, and make a ton of money, but he didn't manage to accomplish a single thing that matters.
He fizzled out with the Niners, too, going 8-8 just 2 years after his unsuccessful Super Bowl appearance.
Could he orchestrate a quick turnaround and then take off a couple years later - kind of a football version of Scott Skiles? I suppose. Have fun with that!
Yikes. A lot of hate here.
Anyhow, he took over a team that hadn't had a winning season in eight years and took them to three straight conference championships. That's pretty good, right? (Also note: said team is 13-35 since he left).
I mean, if the worst you can say about him is that he went .500 one year and ticked off one of the worst owners in the NFL, that's also pretty good.
Michigan was a trainwreck when he got there, going 24-32 in the Big 10 under the two previous coaches. He's made them relevant for the first time since 2008. I guess that doesn't matter.
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I’d take Harbough over Mac. Mac’s has his time. He’s proven to be able to ride the hottest hand in football but be pretty incompetent at times.
Let’s say for craps and giggles Harbaugh did come in (he’s not, Mac will be the coach going forward) and lights a spark for 3-4 years before he wears out his welcome. So that gives the Pack an Aaron Rodgers at 37-38 years old.
I’m fairly convinced the Packers will always be a “contender” with Mac but I’m also pretty well convinced they ain’t winning the SB with him running the show. He talks about needing to fix the same things from game to game, year to year, and it never really gets fixed.
Oh and the team absolutely quit on him the last 2 weeks of the season.
As far as McGinn goes, he was great until the Packers got pissed off for calling out their “holier than though” attitude with regards to Guion still being on the roster through all of his legal issues. He rightfully did his job, the Packers of course were pissed, and from there on out he became someone simply trying to find any reason to put the Packers down.
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Yikes. A lot of hate here.
Anyhow, he took over a team that hadn't had a winning season in eight years and took them to three straight conference championships. That's pretty good, right? (Also note: said team is 13-35 since he left).
I mean, if the worst you can say about him is that he went .500 one year and ticked off one of the worst owners in the NFL, that's also pretty good.
Michigan was a trainwreck when he got there, going 24-32 in the Big 10 under the two previous coaches. He's made them relevant for the first time since 2008. I guess that doesn't matter.
I said nothing "hateful."
What I said about his Michigan "accomplishments" are 100% correct, no? What do Michigan football fans care about? Beating tOSU and contending for national championships, right? Has he done either?
Your points about his SF record, though, are fair enough.
Harbaugh has a good record, and that suggests that he is a good coach. Given that the Bears have had a shortage of those, sure, pay him $10 million a year or whatever to fix them. It's the old lady's dough, so who cares?
His record also suggests that he hasn't had the staying power or the ability to accomplish his goals. Maybe Chicago is where he'll do it.
I can't say I have a better candidate for y'all, anyway. Although in the NFL, the "name" guys often don't do as well as the relative no-names.
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Ryan Pace isn't going to hire Jim Harbaugh because one of Harbaugh's first moves would be to attempt to get rid of Pace so he can have control of personnel.
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Do not understand the Harbaugh aura. One great year with San Fran. The rest of his career as a 8-10 win per season college coach. Wearing out his welcome wherever he goes. If his name wasn't Harbaugh and Michigan hadn't sold their soul to get him and then created a cult around him, his seat would be getting warm in Ann Arbor. Frankly, I don't think they would be sad to see him go. Except there is no plan B.
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Do not understand the Harbaugh aura. One great year with San Fran. The rest of his career as a 8-10 win per season college coach. Wearing out his welcome wherever he goes. If his name wasn't Harbaugh and Michigan hadn't sold their soul to get him and then created a cult around him, his seat would be getting warm in Ann Arbor. Frankly, I don't think they would be sad to see him go. Except there is no plan B.
1. Took over a Michigan program that was eight games under .500 in the Big 10 under the two previous coaches, has gone 18-8 in conference since and made two major bowl appearances.
2. Took over a 49ers team that hadn't had a winning season in eight years. Immediately took them to the three consecutive NFC Conference championship games. (That's three great years, fwiw)
3. Took over a Stanford program that had gone 16-40 in the five previous seasons. Made them a national title contender by his fourth season.
I agree his seat is going to get warm, and I get why people don't like him personally. But as a coach, he's been successful everywhere he's been ... including Michigan, when you consider where that program was for the six seasons before he arrived. They're not beating OSU, but they're not losing to Minnesota or Rutgers either.
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1. Took over a Michigan program that was eight games under .500 in the Big 10 under the two previous coaches, has gone 18-8 in conference since and made two major bowl appearances.
2. Took over a 49ers team that hadn't had a winning season in eight years. Immediately took them to the three consecutive NFC Conference championship games. (That's three great years, fwiw)
3. Took over a Stanford program that had gone 16-40 in the five previous seasons. Made them a national title contender by his fourth season.
I agree his seat is going to get warm, and I get why people don't like him personally. But as a coach, he's been successful everywhere he's been ... including Michigan, when you consider where that program was for the six seasons before he arrived. They're not beating OSU, but they're not losing to Minnesota or Rutgers either.
Reasonable stuff as usual, Pakuni. I probably was too dismissive of him earlier because I think he's a douchenozzle.
My only nit would be that the way college football is set up now, there are only 3 major bowl games each season - the 2 national semifinals and the championship.
All the others are just exhibitions - not even as important as games against Minnesota and Rutgers!
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1. Took over a Michigan program that was eight games under .500 in the Big 10 under the two previous coaches, has gone 18-8 in conference since and made two major bowl appearances.
2. Took over a 49ers team that hadn't had a winning season in eight years. Immediately took them to the three consecutive NFC Conference championship games. (That's three great years, fwiw)
3. Took over a Stanford program that had gone 16-40 in the five previous seasons. Made them a national title contender by his fourth season.
I agree his seat is going to get warm, and I get why people don't like him personally. But as a coach, he's been successful everywhere he's been ... including Michigan, when you consider where that program was for the six seasons before he arrived. They're not beating OSU, but they're not losing to Minnesota or Rutgers either.
Not to mention Michigan was 4-0 before losing their senior QB. The backup ranged from ok in Peters to atrocious in O'Korn, someone who couldn't see the field at Houston. It was a disappointing season to be sure, but that team lost a lot of talent and then lost their QB. Harbaugh getting that team back to top-10 contention in 2 years is impressive enough. Sure, the Ohio State thing won't sit well, but thats a program that is at the pinnacle while Harbaugh took over a program that was a dumpster fire, and he still almost beat them in year one.
Complaints about his personality being abrasive or whatnot is fair, he's a lunatic. But to drag him for a single bad season after 3 excellent ones in SF and then a "disappointing" season after 2 overachieving ones and not managing to beat a juggernaut rival with an undermanned team is totally unfair, IMO.
I think Michigan is VERY good next year with Patterson coming in, and Harbaugh isnt going anywhere.
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Packers cleaning house all over the coaching staff
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Looks like Bennett is getting reassigned. Wonder if Philbin is coming back as OC.
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Whatever happened to Tom Clements? He was out the league in 2017. Is he retired now?
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Looks like Bennett is getting reassigned. Wonder if Philbin is coming back as OC.
Ben McAdoo available too. Not exactly a high leverage position in Mike Mccarthy's staff.
All eyes on GM. I'm worried about the onus it places on retaining scouts if you nab someone without a scouting background like Ball.
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Ben McAdoo available too. Not exactly a high leverage position in Mike Mccarthy's staff.
All eyes on GM. I'm worried about the onus it places on retaining scouts if you nab someone without a scouting background like Ball.
Well it depends. If you give Wolf more influence, money and a nice title, he probably is going to be able to retain a good portion of the staff.
You knew people like Highsmith were going to leave eventually. There was only so much the Packers could do to keep people like that.
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Well it depends. If you give Wolf more influence, money and a nice title, he probably is going to be able to retain a good portion of the staff.
You knew people like Highsmith were going to leave eventually. There was only so much the Packers could do to keep people like that.
I think that's right, and the carrot is that whoever is that "next guy" gets a lot of sway and autonomy. We get a pass this year because there aren't any real openings elsewhere, but my greater point is that it puts the burden on succession planning and they're going to have to be willing to spend lavishly on the personnel department to keep people. Wolf and Gutekunst will eventually move on for the whole package as a GM, but I agree we can keep them happy for awhile. My prediction is that one of them will get what Highsmith got in a VP title.
Now, I think it's unfair to the staff there to act like the GM is the whole organization. It certainly sets a tone, as Thompson did, but there are a lot of lifers and talented people there.
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Well it depends. If you give Wolf more influence, money and a nice title, he probably is going to be able to retain a good portion of the staff.
You knew people like Highsmith were going to leave eventually. There was only so much the Packers could do to keep people like that.
If they can keep Wolf and/or Gutekunst and hire Ball, I am fine with it but I really would like to see Wolf get his shot. The consensus sounds like Ball, but it sure seemed like they have been grooming Wolf for this for a while. Its kind of a Dick move on the Packers part to block Wolf from interviewing for GM positions and then string him along with more titles only to tell him he is not their guy.
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If they can keep Wolf and/or Gutekunst and hire Ball, I am fine with it but I really would like to see Wolf get his shot. The consensus sounds like Ball, but it sure seemed like they have been grooming Wolf for this for a while. Its kind of a Dick move on the Packers part to block Wolf from interviewing for GM positions and then string him along with more titles only to tell him he is not their guy.
No snark intended, but if the Packer's issue the last couple of years has been personnel....why are we worried about retaining the head of the personnel department? Has Wolf been giving TT great advice that the guy flat out ignored? I'm not educated enough to say what the problem is/was but if we think the roster sucks I don't get the logic that says one of the key architects of said roster should get the big chair.
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No snark intended, but if the Packer's issue the last couple of years has been personnel....why are we worried about retaining the head of the personnel department? Has Wolf been giving TT great advice that the guy flat out ignored? I'm not educated enough to say what the problem is/was but if we think the roster sucks I don't get the logic that says one of the key architects of said roster should get the big chair.
Who knows what goes on in their offices and how much TT listened. It would be interesting to see which players were recommended by each particular scout.
From all accounts Wolf and Gutekunst are highly regarded and well thought of enough by other teams to get gm interviews. I think the biggest TT complaint is that he didn't use all the avenues available to him to acquire players not so much the specific players he acquired, although recently his drafts have been a concern also. My concern is, if they hire Ball, they will probably lose both top scouts and now you have a guy without scouting background running the show.
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Beli ta NY, Mac ta NE, Douchebag’s bil ta GB, hey?
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4ever
I would love to have DB bil at GB.
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44-19 record in the pros, with three conference championship appearances and one Super Bowl appearance in four seasons.
You could do far, far worse.
45 ESPN analysts rated whom they would hire for the NFL.
Harbaugh finished first.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21947511/nfl-head-coaching-candidates-hire-45-espn-analysts-rank-their-choices-jim-harbaugh-leads-way
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Looks like the Packers have a GM.
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Packers are hiring Brian Gutekunst as their GM, as @McClain_on_NFL said. A 5-year deal for Gutekunst.
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Afraid to lose him to the Texans
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I'd guess McCarthy is safe now.
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I'd guess McCarthy is safe now.
Which will help with the defensive coordinator search.
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Well that was not very exciting.
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Says to me that Ball and Mac will stay. Wolf? We'll see. I haven't heard anyone seek him out for a GM slot this winter but he could head somewhere else as a #2. Of course he's young so there's no reason to think he'd never be back in Titletown.
Seemingly solid, safe choice. Results will tell the rest.
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Lookin’up the English translation for da German word, “gutekunst.” Knot certain its safe on a family site like dis, ai na?
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Says to me that Ball and Mac will stay. Wolf? We'll see. I haven't heard anyone seek him out for a GM slot this winter but he could head somewhere else as a #2. Of course he's young so there's no reason to think he'd never be back in Titletown.
Seemingly solid, safe choice. Results will tell the rest.
Good post.
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Can someone go check on 82? Not sure he can survive the final :46
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Ain’t Matta we the best. Skol Vikings!!!
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Matt Nagy time in Chicago!
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Matt Nagy time in Chicago!
Now to just keep Vic.
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Matt Nagy time in Chicago!
Based on what I've read so far I like the move.
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https://twitter.com/JSComments/status/950380531539238912
What's the venn diagram look like between JS commenters and conservative talk radio listeners/tv watchers?
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Can someone go check on 82? Not sure he can survive the final :46
Oh, I'm OK. Rough weekend, with the loss at Nova followed by the Panthers' defeat.
I really thought my lads were going to win right up until the intentional-grounding call. I thought it was the right call, although Olsen later said that every other official was trying to talk the ref out of it but the ref wouldn't budge. Cam seemed to still be in the pocket to me. Besides, the Panthers had many, many chances to win that game.
To his credit, Cam did not blame that or any other call for the defeat. Nor did he blame his mostly inept group of receivers. I have seen Cam mature as a team leader this season, maybe partly resulting from the consequences of his ridiculous comments about the shortcomings of women several months ago. He had a hell of a game yesterday.
As for the rest of the NFC playoffs, the home teams next weekend will have their hands full with the Falcons and Saints.
The Vikings remind me a little of the 2001 Bears, who stunningly went 13-3 behind an opportunistic defense and a journeyman QB, only to get dominated at home in their first playoff game. The Panthers showed the recipe to beating the Vikings a few weeks ago.
A lot of people seemingly forget that the Falcons were in the SB less than a year ago. That's a very good offensive team and their defense has improved markedly. I'm not surprised they're favored on the road against the No. 1 seed (minus Wentz). The Saints can beat anybody ... or lose to anybody.
In the AFC, it's obviously the Patriots. The Steelers will need to play their arses off and likely will need a couple of lucky bounces, too.
At gunpoint, making the call today, I think we'll have a Patriots-Falcons rematch.
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Based on what I've read so far I like the move.
Me too - he only thought it was appropriate to give the ball to the Chiefs' best player 5 times in the second half.
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The Vikings remind me a little of the 2001 Bears, who stunningly went 13-3 behind an opportunistic defense and a journeyman QB, only to get dominated at home in their first playoff game. The Panthers showed the recipe to beating the Vikings a few weeks ago.
I just said basically this same thing to someone over the weekend. I expect to see a Falcons-Saints NFC Championship Game. Additionally, a bright spot in the Bears having Trubisky is not having to worry about them throwing ridiculous money at Case Keenum this offseason. (Insert Mike Glennon joke here)
Jags-Steelers should be the best game of the weekend. Those teams are closer than many probably realize. Fournette went wild against Pittsburgh earlier this season. Should be interesting to see the adjustment Tomlin makes.
Falcons and Pats should roll.
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Me too - he only thought it was appropriate to give the ball to the Chiefs' best player 5 times in the second half.
Word is that Nagy scripted the first 15 plays and Reid took over play-calling after that.
Interestingly, if Schurmur gets a head job (Arz?) that will mean one-quarter of the league's coaches will be on Andy Reid's coaching tree (obviously counting Reid himself). That's pretty incredible.
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Me too - he only thought it was appropriate to give the ball to the Chiefs' best player 5 times in the second half.
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/lucille-portable.gif)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DS47vrSXcAA5ySy.jpg)
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(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/lucille-portable.gif)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DS47vrSXcAA5ySy.jpg)
Don't criticize Andy's Arby's menu
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Don't criticize Andy's Arby's menu
Fair enough. I won't get on someone for their love of Beef 'n Cheddars and curly fries.
Even if Reid was protecting Nagy and Nagy was in fact calling the plays in the 2nd half (which seems questionable considering the footage of Reid), I don't think you let a bad half of football dissuade you if you believe in the coach.
Of course the Bears have to get Trubisky some WRs to work with, which will be easier said than done. I hope they consider taking a chance on Allen Robinson coming off his injury. I want nothing to do with Jarvis Landry at the money he is likely to command.
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Fair enough. I won't get on someone for their love of Beef 'n Cheddars and curly fries.
Even if Reid was protecting Nagy and Nagy was in fact calling the plays in the 2nd half (which seems questionable considering the footage of Reid), I don't think you let a bad half of football dissuade you if you believe in the coach.
Of course the Bears have to get Trubisky some WRs to work with, which will be easier said than done. I hope they consider taking a chance on Allen Robinson coming off his injury. I want nothing to do with Jarvis Landry at the money he is likely to command.
In all fairness, i was being a bit facetious, but I didn't use teal, so shame on me!
I think the Bears are on the right track. Losing Fangio would be a blow, but their future is brighter now than it was 2 years ago.
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In all fairness, i was being a bit facetious, but I didn't use teal, so shame on me!
I think the Bears are on the right track. Losing Fangio would be a blow, but their future is brighter now than it was 2 years ago.
I'm certainly hoping they can retain Fangio. He's out of contract today so perhaps new will come soon.
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Eliot Wolf may be on the move to his dad's other team:
@AdamSchefter
Packers? personnel man Eliot Wolf, who is in Cleveland interviewing with GM John Dorsey today, also has an offer to join Reggie McKenzie/Jon Gruden in Oakland.
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I don't think anyone expects him to stick around and the Packers are fully prepared to move forward without him.
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Packers hire former Browns coach Mike Pettine. A Rex Ryan protege. Great.
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Packers hire former Browns coach Mike Pettine. A Rex Ryan protege. Great.
Interesting hire. He's been very successful in that role. Ray Rhodes esque - better as a coordinator
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Packers hire former Browns coach Mike Pettine. A Rex Ryan protege. Great.
Great news. I was hoping for Bradley, but I am good with this.
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Looking more like fangio sticks with the bears, per hub arkush on twitta.
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Just glad it wasn?t an internal hire.
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Looking more like fangio sticks with the bears, per hub arkush on twitta.
Would be very nice if he stayed. Bears need to add an edge rusher and figure out the CB position.
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Just glad it wasn?t an internal hire.
I agree with that. And after thinking about it for awhile, the choice to me is as good as any.
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I agree with that. And after thinking about it for awhile, the choice to me is as good as any.
I do hope that we try to retain Whitt. As bad as our secondary has been at times (some of this is personnel), he seems to get a lot out of guys willing to put in the work (Tramon, Shields, etc.)
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Was DC for the Jets when they were pretty good. On it's face I'm digging the hire.
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Pettine isn't a bad hire, but he's kind of an uninspired one, aina? He seems to benefit from being an early adapter to the 3-4 from his Jets and Bills days, but the league has caught up to that as evidenced by the Ryans inability to hold a job anymore. His persona from his Cle days was certainly more of a "run through a brick wall guy" than a scheme guy. And Demovsky's espn article suggests that his similarities to Capers weighed in his favor, because evidently the Packers think they want continuity for the current personnel. Between this, keeping Mac (and letting him continue to call plays), and going back to Philbin, it all has the feel of a front office trying not to screw this up because it has Aaron Rodgers, rather than taking risks and actually going for it.
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Browns seemingly putting together a pretty solid front office.
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Pettine isn't a bad hire, but he's kind of an uninspired one, aina? He seems to benefit from being an early adapter to the 3-4 from his Jets and Bills days, but the league has caught up to that as evidenced by the Ryans inability to hold a job anymore.
Early adapter? How so?
3-4 was the predominant defensive scheme almost 50 years ago.It waxed and waned since then, but never went away.
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Early adapter? How so?
3-4 was the predominant defensive scheme almost 50 years ago.It waxed and waned since then, but never went away.
Full disclosure that I may be misremembering a fair amount of this, but I think that through the 90s, a pretty straightforward 4-3 was the dominant scheme, and that the Ryans were a big player in bringing back a kind of hybrid 3-4 with a lot of complex zone blitzes but with the strong side OLB playing man coverage, and almost exclusively man coverage in the secondary. Not really sure what the offensive antidote to that is/was (athletic pass catching TEs that make OLBs look silly in pass coverage? utilizing the slot to for quick hitters to avoid the blitzes and take advantage of man coverage on the outside?) but a common criticism of the Ryans in the later years was that their defenses got progressively worse after the initial success as assistants in Baltimore and with the Jets.
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Full disclosure that I may be misremembering a fair amount of this, but I think that through the 90s, a pretty straightforward 4-3 was the dominant scheme, and that the Ryans were a big player in bringing back a kind of hybrid 3-4 with a lot of complex zone blitzes but with the strong side OLB playing man coverage, and almost exclusively man coverage in the secondary. Not really sure what the offensive antidote to that is/was (athletic pass catching TEs that make OLBs look silly in pass coverage? utilizing the slot to for quick hitters to avoid the blitzes and take advantage of man coverage on the outside?) but a common criticism of the Ryans in the later years was that their defenses got progressively worse after the initial success as assistants in Baltimore and with the Jets.
My recollection is similar. I think for a while the 4-3 was more dominant. Offenses adjust; then defenses do the same. I think we will continue to see both. Gotta have athletes, though, for the 3-4.
Kind of a mishmash now.
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Looks like the Packers are retaining Joe Whitt. He has routinely been lauded by former players and associates for getting the most out of his players (tramon, Sam shields), though with GB that isn't saying much.
Still, if you're getting continuity, this is where you want it
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Mark Helfrich hired as Bears' OC. Nagy still plans on calling plays.
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Mark Helfrich hired as Bears' OC. Nagy still plans on calling plays.
I'm okay with that. Good coordinator, awful head coach who couldn't recruit.
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Mark Helfrich hired as Bears' OC. Nagy still plans on calling plays.
More impressed with their OL coach
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Fangio back. Really like the staff Nagy has put together. Now Pace needs a really nice offseason.
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Atlanta should fire Sark for the four play calls after first and goal inside the ten. (He's going to Seattle anyway.)
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Atlanta should fire Sark for the four play calls after first and goal inside the ten. (He's going to Seattle anyway.)
Every coach should be fired when someone trips. Why wasn't Julio told it's not allowed. That is all on the coach :-\
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Every coach should be fired when someone trips. Why wasn't Julio told it's not allowed. That is all on the coach :-\
LOL. You think rolling Ryan out on fourth down was a good call? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Good one.
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LOL. You think rolling Ryan out on fourth down was a good call? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Good one.
In reality, I HATE it when GB ran that play when Hundley was at QB (no big fan when AR runs it either).
Generally the play severely limits the options that the QB has available - but in this case Julio made the break and would have had a step or two on the defender. It would have been a game winner if JJ doesn't trip. Designing a play to the best WR in football (one of the best ever) is NOT a bad idea.
For most other teams, I would agree 100% with you, but not here.
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I do think Atlanta should have run the ball at least once on first or second down.
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Quite happy the Eagles won.
I enjoy it when the "smart money" is wrong.
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Mike Tomlin's decisions are crazy.
4th and 6 inches, you run a pitch play. Jax goes 80 yards for TD
4th an 1 yard in 4th quarter, you run a pass.
Do you not have a 6'4" 250lb QB, plus a running back that is one of the best in the league?
Then you kick an onside kick trailing by 7 with the two minute warning and two timeouts left? He will have many questions to answer this week.
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Feels like it is more than 17-0.
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Feels like it is more than 17-0.
Dirty Saints
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Sphincter time, hey?
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Is Sean Payton drunk?
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Gotta wrap up dat receiver, hey?
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Sorry Vike fans, I was rooting for you.
-Terrible throw by Keenum for interception, a WTF moment.
-Blocked punt, that don't happen often
-Did not run on third down (prior to made fg) and make NO use the timeout
-Let Brees throw for like 250 in second half with that prevent defense
-Killer though, was block in the back call on Rudolph, after Diggs picked up 22 into NO territory
You guys are just cursed......Draft some lineman.
Oh my........ I was typing the above and ready to send, so I'll leave it as it. My God, the ex-Terp did it, good for you Vikes out there. Could go down as an all-timer with Immaculate Reception.
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Skol Vikings!!!
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Nothing makes me happier than seeing Sean Payton lose.
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Gotta wrap up dat receiver, hey?
Wrapping up is always important, hey doc?
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St. Blaise was warming up the candles but put them back in the frig. Wow!
Immaculate Reception II...
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What a Lion's way to lose.
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Wrapping up is always important, hey doc?
Don't want no rancid junk, hey?
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As a Minnesotan, I don't know how to process this Vikings win in a playoff game.
This is the 20th anniversary of what wikipedia says : "1998 NFC Championship Game has been remembered for the effect it had on the Vikings players and their fan base, as it is seen by some sportswriters as one of the most devastating losses in NFL history."
Next week's loss to the Eagles will be beyond indescribably epic.
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Greatest moment of my life
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i could just imagine the lines formed in vegas of the guys who thought they had a winning ticket, watching on the big screens in front of them,waiting for the final seconds to tick off and then...
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Most outrageous defensive gaffe ever? Let me know what I'm forgetting.
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I read the line was 5.5 .. so when MN didn't kick the PAT and didn't go up 6, the New Orleans bettors still won their bet.
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Most outrageous defensive gaffe ever? Let me know what I'm forgetting.
You beat me to it.
I was going to say:
"Worst defensive play in modern NFL history ... or merely one of the 5 worst?
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Watching it live, as soon as Diggs caught it, and the initial defender whiffed, I remember thinking "why isn't Diggs hurrying to get out of bounds?", assuming of course there had to be safety help. In the moment I couldn't believe Diggs was trying to score 6, thought it was going to be a huge blunder, when they now had a makeable FG with a second left.
I think there were 4 lead changes in the final 2 minutes. Crazy.
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The Vikings got their own Hail Mary today. When Pearson caught that pass in 1975, I think he pushed off the Viking defender. The catch today for the Vikings was clean. I'm sure Bud Grant is looking from above and smiling tonight.
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I'm sure Bud Grant is looking from above and smiling tonight.
You realize that Bud Grant is still alive, right? I think he may have been at the game. Unless by "above" you meant the upper deck.
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You realize that Bud Grant is still alive, right? I think he may have been at the game. Unless by "above" you meant the upper deck.
Lol, yes Bud was at the game
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Was Les Steckel at the game too?
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Most outrageous defensive gaffe ever? Let me know what I'm forgetting.
4th and 26 against the Eagles in Philadelphia when a certain Green and Gold team gave up a first down and ultimately lost a trip to the Super Bowl.
This one is on par with that play!
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You realize that Bud Grant is still alive, right? I think he may have been at the game. Unless by "above" you meant the upper deck.
In fact, Bud Grant is a cheesehead. Went to High School in Superior and has a home near Gordon.
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4th and 26 against the Eagles in Philadelphia when a certain Green and Gold team gave up a first down and ultimately lost a trip to the Super Bowl.
This one is on par with that play!
That loss to Philly was in the divisional playoffs. They would have to go to Carolina for the NFC Championship Game.
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Watching it live, as soon as Diggs caught it, and the initial defender whiffed, I remember thinking "why isn't Diggs hurrying to get out of bounds?", assuming of course there had to be safety help. In the moment I couldn't believe Diggs was trying to score 6, thought it was going to be a huge blunder, when they now had a makeable FG with a second left.
I think there were 4 lead changes in the final 2 minutes. Crazy.
I had the same reaction, initially, I was yelling at the TV, "get out of bounds." Then, about 0.25 seconds later, I yelled to my daughter, "there's nobody there!" I couldn't believe it. That game was really a lot of fun. I like Brees, so I'm glad he brought them back and it's not his fault the Saints lost, but I was rooting for the Vikings all the way.
And, yes. That was a shockingly bad defensive play. Not only did he completely whiff on the hit, but he blocked the only other defensive player who even had a shot to make a tackle. Inexplicable. Maybe somebody put a bounty on Crawley, and Williams was trying to collect.
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"So Grandpa Marcus, what was your biggest moment ever?"
"Well, Scooter, I made the worst defensive screw-up in the history of football."
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Whoa .. the Vikings are 3.5 point favorites @ Philly. This will only add to the epicness of a loss so horrific, the NFL has no choice but to pull their franchise.
The Vikings lost 41-0 in 2001 in the NFC championship .. I'm thinking 77-0 would just about do it.
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4th and 26 against the Eagles in Philadelphia when a certain Green and Gold team gave up a first down and ultimately lost a trip to the Super Bowl.
This one is on par with that play!
I think close but no cigar, this was a game ender and easily a worse football play. Side note, the guy who caught 4th and 26, Freddy Mitchell was out of football forever at the end of that year never to suit up again.
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So the four quarterbacks remaining are Tom Brady, Blake Bortles, Nick Foles and Case Keenum. That's just awesome.
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I'm convinced they rehearsed that final play about 10-20 times. Fake football.
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So the four quarterbacks remaining are Tom Brady, Blake Bortles, Nick Foles and Case Keenum. That's just awesome.
Three (Journey)Men and a Brady
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I'm convinced they rehearsed that final play about 10-20 times. Fake football.
Williams effed up so perfectly that my buddy is convinced he had money on the game.
"I mean, look at that!" he said as we watched the replay for the bazillionth time. "He stepped aside. He literally moved out of Diggs' way."
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Williams effed up so perfectly that my buddy is convinced he had money on the game.
"I mean, look at that!" he said as we watched the replay for the bazillionth time. "He stepped aside. He literally moved out of Diggs' way."
(https://i.redditmedia.com/W0UneZPZjVQZuc9T4C98vF4qTjikKiz4akYqOxVMpgM.jpg?w=667&s=e4a04147979096a10a722a469817df76)
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Williams effed up so perfectly that my buddy is convinced he had money on the game.
"I mean, look at that!" he said as we watched the replay for the bazillionth time. "He stepped aside. He literally moved out of Diggs' way."
There was a great angle of the play that I saw on twitter well after the game. The camera was pretty much right behind Diggs facing Williams and you can actually see him practically diving out of the way.
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There was a great angle of the play that I saw on twitter well after the game. The camera was pretty much right behind Diggs facing Williams and you can actually see him practically diving out of the way.
Here's a pretty funny one from in front of Diggs.
(http://img.fark.net/images/cache/850/L/LK/fark_LK9BIUa-sDu6-er-DSQTi-c5E0U.jpg?t=UdrMfYXMXEK0lchm6148rg&f=1516597200)
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The emotional timeline in my house was: joy, confidence, worry, hope, concern, despair, and dance party.
Is it time to talk about what a class A d-bag Sean Payton continues to be? Not having his team on the field for the PAT gave us Keenum leading the Skol chant but it is chapter one in the sore losers handbook.
Huge props to the punter who came out and lined up on D for the play - that showed class.
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There was a great angle of the play that I saw on twitter well after the game. The camera was pretty much right behind Diggs facing Williams and you can actually see him practically diving out of the way.
The ONLY thing I could see was that he got there too early and wanted to avoid PI. But still, just a horrible play.
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The emotional timeline in my house was: joy, confidence, worry, hope, concern, despair, and dance party.
Is it time to talk about what a class A d-bag Sean Payton continues to be? Not having his team on the field for the PAT gave us Keenum leading the Skol chant but it is chapter one in the sore losers handbook.
Huge props to the punter who came out and lined up on D for the play - that showed class.
sore losers??? The game was over, they ran off to the locker room. They did came back out for the PAT. What more do you want from them. I'm not a saints fan, and he does generally seem like an ass, but you're reaching on this one.
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Here's a pretty funny one from in front of Diggs.
(http://img.fark.net/images/cache/850/L/LK/fark_LK9BIUa-sDu6-er-DSQTi-c5E0U.jpg?t=UdrMfYXMXEK0lchm6148rg&f=1516597200)
That may have been the one. By facing Diggs, I meant camera was from the line of scrimmage.
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The emotional timeline in my house was: joy, confidence, worry, hope, concern, despair, and dance party.
Is it time to talk about what a class A d-bag Sean Payton continues to be? Not having his team on the field for the PAT gave us Keenum leading the Skol chant but it is chapter one in the sore losers handbook.
Huge props to the punter who came out and lined up on D for the play - that showed class.
I don't blame the Saints for running off, but not gonna argue about your assessment of Sean Payton. Anytime he loses is a good day.
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Between the obviously awful misplay by the DB, the horrendous defensive formation (how do you only have 2 DBs over there with 2 WRs in that situation?), and the blatant neutral zone infraction that went uncalled on the Saints last play prior to their field goal (3rd and 1 with 30-ish seconds left, would've given them a first and 10 at the 25 with each team having 1 timeout left, so instead of 0:25 on the clock after the field goal they could've ran it down to 0:00), something fishy went on last night.
That was wild.
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(http://image.nola.com/home/nola-media/width600/img/saints_impact/photo/new-saints-1jpg-0425b9020ab18f43.jpg)
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sore losers??? The game was over, they ran off to the locker room. They did came back out for the PAT. What more do you want from them. I'm not a saints fan, and he does generally seem like an ass, but you're reaching on this one.
And eventually they came out. Actually I thought they showed a class coming out and congratulating the Vikings in the process.
Really the rule is a dumb one. If the margin is more than two, the offensive team should have the option to not do the PAT. (Two accounts for a defensive two point conversion possibility.)
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And eventually they came out. Actually I thought they showed a class coming out and congratulating the Vikings in the process.
Really the rule is a dumb one. If the margin is more than two, the offensive team should have the option to not do the PAT. (Two accounts for a defensive two point conversion possibility.)
100% agree that the rule was a dumb one - but Payton knows the rule. Classy of the players that came out (again, especially the punter) yes, just poor sportsmanship by Payton.
Imagine if MU lost on a buzzer beater 3 where their player was fouled and the CBB rule was the game could not end until the free throw attempt was made. Wojo, immediately walks his team into the locker room after the made 3, a minute goes by and the walk-ons come out for the free throw attempt. Classy by the walk-ons, poor sportsmanship by Wojo
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100% agree that the rule was a dumb one - but Payton knows the rule. Classy of the players that came out (again, especially the punter) yes, just poor sportsmanship by Payton.
Imagine if MU lost on a buzzer beater 3 where their player was fouled and the CBB rule was the game could not end until the free throw attempt was made. Wojo, immediately walks his team into the locker room after the made 3, a minute goes by and the walk-ons come out for the free throw attempt. Classy by the walk-ons, poor sportsmanship by Wojo
If one team was celebrating on the court, the coaches were walking across the court to shake hands, the TV cameras and wires were all over the court, TV people were on the court interviewing one of the teams, the winning team was moving their celebration into their tunnel/locker room, etc. I wouldn't blame Wojo one bit for thinking, "well, I guess that's it, let's get out of here."
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100% agree that the rule was a dumb one - but Payton knows the rule. Classy of the players that came out (again, especially the punter) yes, just poor sportsmanship by Payton.
Imagine if MU lost on a buzzer beater 3 where their player was fouled and the CBB rule was the game could not end until the free throw attempt was made. Wojo, immediately walks his team into the locker room after the made 3, a minute goes by and the walk-ons come out for the free throw attempt. Classy by the walk-ons, poor sportsmanship by Wojo
Neither you nor I have no idea what Payton did or said.
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And eventually they came out. Actually I thought they showed a class coming out and congratulating the Vikings in the process.
Really the rule is a dumb one. If the margin is more than two, the offensive team should have the option to not do the PAT. (Two accounts for a defensive two point conversion possibility.)
Las Vegas is the reason for the rule.
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Who cares if the Saints choose not to lineup for the PAT? Game doesn't need to stop. Some bettors would be irate that the Vikings walk in an uncontested 2 pt try to cover but that is it.
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Las Vegas is the reason for the rule.
https://twitter.com/MikePereira/status/952911670791327746
Also, this: https://twitter.com/dcsportsbog/status/952711093566062592
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Between the obviously awful misplay by the DB, the horrendous defensive formation (how do you only have 2 DBs over there with 2 WRs in that situation?), and the blatant neutral zone infraction that went uncalled on the Saints last play prior to their field goal (3rd and 1 with 30-ish seconds left, would've given them a first and 10 at the 25 with each team having 1 timeout left, so instead of 0:25 on the clock after the field goal they could've ran it down to 0:00), something fishy went on last night.
That was wild.
https://twitter.com/SeifertESPN/status/952905529747230721
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https://twitter.com/MikePereira/status/952911670791327746
Could be, but the tie breaker didn't obviously apply here. But, the spread did and this potentially affects the credibility of the game.
https://sports.yahoo.com/vikings-final-kneel-saints-5-5-bettors-celebrating-vegas-015410263.html
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Could be, but the tie breaker didn't obviously apply here. But, the spread did and this potentially affects the credibility of the game.
https://sports.yahoo.com/vikings-final-kneel-saints-5-5-bettors-celebrating-vegas-015410263.html
Correct. He goes on to say this: https://twitter.com/MikePereira/status/952912691370262529
Apparently, the rule doesn't specify regular season vs playoff games. So they would have to follow the rule in all situations.
Regardless, I don't believe they had to kick it due to vegas. Only because college football doesn't have to kick it.
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Correct. He goes on to say this: https://twitter.com/MikePereira/status/952912691370262529
Apparently, the rule doesn't specify regular season vs playoff games. So they would have to follow the rule in all situations.
Regardless, I don't believe they had to kick it due to vegas. Only because college football doesn't have to kick it.
I think in a playoff game, the rule should just treat it as a walk off or make it an option for the kicking team. Pretty bizarre to sit around for five minutes to regroup. In any regard, one in a million play but exciting.
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sore losers??? The game was over, they ran off to the locker room. They did came back out for the PAT. What more do you want from them. I'm not a saints fan, and he does generally seem like an ass, but you're reaching on this one.
This.
Payton totally effed up going for it on 4th-and-2 at midfield the previous week against the Panthers - a brutally bad coaching decision that almost cost his team the game. He is a dick who, among other things, ordered his players to try to hurt other teams' players - I do believe the bounty thing was real (I refuse to use -gate) and I do believe he knew about it.
But I could give 2 shytes about gamblers losing bets because of this. Having to kick the point (or run a 2) in this situation is dopey. And the Saints DID follow the rules.
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Neither you nor I have no idea what Payton did or said.
You're right. i'm probably reading too much into him sending out the punter to line up for the final play, it probably was a simple mistake and not a sign of him being a really poor sport.
https://twitter.com/Allen_Strk/status/952934691098767365 (https://twitter.com/Allen_Strk/status/952934691098767365)
edit: apparently the Vikes punter was on the field for the play too. So i'll admit that the PAT management may not have been an intentional move based on him being a poor sport, but his body of work would not make it a stretch that it was him being a jagoff. If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, knock yourself out.
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Worst bad beat conversion kneel/don't kneel ever was the '98 Bills/Pats game. Bunch of controversial calls, including the alleged "just give it to them" play. Pats scored untimed TD to go up 23-21 and get the win. Wade Phillips, in protest, refused to keep his team on the field for the conversion. Pats lined up, instead of taking a knee, Vinateri walked it in for 2, Pats win 25-21.
Line was Pats -3.5.
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That loss to Philly was in the divisional playoffs. They would have to go to Carolina for the NFC Championship Game.
Few doubts they would have made the Super Bowl if they had held the Eagles on 4th and 26th.
4th and fookin 26. And you give up a first down? There is nothing worse than that.
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Few doubts they would have made the Super Bowl if they had held the Eagles on 4th and 26th.
4th and fookin 26. And you give up a first down? There is nothing worse than that.
I'd say last night was without question worse.
4th and 26 but with over a minute to go in the game, meaning the Eagles could use the whole field/the Packers had to cover the whole field. If the Vikings throw it over the middle last night the game ends.
Heck, I'd say the Packers game at Seattle in the NFC Title game was worth than the 4th and 26 game.
Or had the Packers won the game in Arizona in overtime after not one but two Hail Mary's and a 98 yard drive to tie the game with 0:00 on the clock, that drive was worse.
Or throwing a pick on 2nd and goal from the 2 when you're about to win the SB and have one of the more physical running backs to ever play the game.
Or being up 28-3 in the 2nd half of a Super Bowl and losing.
4th and 26 was absolutely awful. But I've seen plenty of situations that were worse in just as big of moments, if not bigger.
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I'd say last night was without question worse.
4th and 26 but with over a minute to go in the game, meaning the Eagles could use the whole field/the Packers had to cover the whole field. If the Vikings throw it over the middle last night the game ends.
Heck, I'd say the Packers game at Seattle in the NFC Title game was worth than the 4th and 26 game.
Or had the Packers won the game in Arizona in overtime after not one but two Hail Mary's and a 98 yard drive to tie the game with 0:00 on the clock, that drive was worse.
Or throwing a pick on 2nd and goal from the 2 when you're about to win the SB and have one of the more physical running backs to ever play the game.
Or being up 28-3 in the 2nd half of a Super Bowl and losing.
4th and 26 was absolutely awful. But I've seen plenty of situations that were worse in just as big of moments, if not bigger.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c8/35/24/c83524ca2479dffb0250d074001a92d8.jpg)
"They're all pretty bad." - Matt "Guitar" Murphy
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(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c8/35/24/c83524ca2479dffb0250d074001a92d8.jpg)
"They're all pretty bad." - Matt "Guitar" Murphy
True. They are. But I struggle to see the idea that there?s never been worse than 4th and 26.
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hey! look who's got a new squeeze?
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22111469/danica-patrick-confirms-dating-green-bay-packers-qb-aaron-rodgers
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hey! look who's got a new squeeze?
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22111469/danica-patrick-confirms-dating-green-bay-packers-qb-aaron-rodgers
I'm happy he was able to nab a cougar because he sure couldn't nab a panther.
**This post is dedicated to MU82**
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Wonder if her tires squeal when stoppin', hey?
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I'm happy he was able to nab a cougar because he sure couldn't nab a panther.
**This post is dedicated to MU82**
8-)
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hey! look who's got a new squeeze?
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22111469/danica-patrick-confirms-dating-green-bay-packers-qb-aaron-rodgers
Not gonna lie, I don't get it from his perspective...but whatevs.
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Not gonna lie, I don't get it from his perspective...but whatevs.
I agree with this analysis
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Not gonna lie, I don't get it from his perspective...but whatevs.
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/2c/91/0f/2c910f0d50d73578f342db633259ee31--beard-quotes-beard-art.jpg)
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(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/2c/91/0f/2c910f0d50d73578f342db633259ee31--beard-quotes-beard-art.jpg)
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/000/681/what-you-did-there-i-see-it.thumbnail.jpg)
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Not gonna lie, I don't get it from his perspective...but whatevs.
C'mon Eng. Danica needs the pub. ARodg enjoys the 'couples attention' when they're seen together at sporting events and red carpets. He believes it's good for his image.
Here's my only wish. IF some of the long standing rumors are true, I really wish he'd be a leader on the subject. I'd hope we'd all grown enough over the past several decades.
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Watt roomers, hey?
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Watt roomers, hey?
Please. Don't tell me you live under a rock.
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If we've "all grown enough over the past several decades," and there are "long standing rumors," then no innuendo is needed and you should say what is implied by your statement.
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If we've "all grown enough over the past several decades," and there are "long standing rumors," then no innuendo is needed and you should say what is implied by your statement.
Whatever. I was simply responding to Eng. Enjoy your day.
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.
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Watt roomers, hey?
Do you actually not know?
Allegedly, Aaron is gay
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Do you actually not know?
Allegedly, Aaron is gay
so all these "babes" serving as arm candy over the years are either tranny, just besties or no one has told aaron yet
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so all these "babes" serving as arm candy over the years are either tranny, just besties or no one has told aaron yet
Maybe he is bisexual.
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I thought only Skip Bayless cared whether Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks were gay.
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Really doubt Rodgers is gay. More importantly, don't care who or what he's fookin' as long as he sticks it in the endzone, hey?
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If we've "all grown enough over the past several decades," and there are "long standing rumors," then no innuendo is needed and you should say what is implied by your statement.
This is the most intelligent post you’ve made here.
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Maybe he is bisexual.
Super gay, but also does girls
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Are we at the point in society where we can say that, honestly, who gives a fack?
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Are we at the point in society where we can say that, honestly, who gives a fack?
It’s all the same in the dark aina?
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C'mon Eng. Danica needs the pub. ARodg enjoys the 'couples attention' when they're seen together at sporting events and red carpets. He believes it's good for his image.
Here's my only wish. IF some of the long standing rumors are true, I really wish he'd be a leader on the subject. I'd hope we'd all grown enough over the past several decades.
If the long standing rumors are true, or if they aren't, or if they are something else entirely, he doesn't owe society leadership on that issue whatsoever. His sexuality is his business. If he chooses to be a "leader," that's great. If he doesn't, that's fine too.
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Whatever his sexual orientation, trading in Olivia Munn for Danica Patrick shows terrible, terrible judgment.
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Whatever his sexual orientation, trading in Olivia Munn for Danica Patrick shows terrible, terrible judgment.
This is fact.
Are we forgetting the Rohrbach stint?
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Sorry (not sorry) late to the party, but forget Kapaernick, forget Trump, forget the kneeling and the protests and revival of the XFL, the ending of the Vikings game this past weekend demonstrates what is truly wrong with the game of football today and foretells its (relative) inevitable death.
Williams was going for the hit, not trying to make a tackle. Whether or not he was deliberately trying injure Diggs is irrelevant and futile to argue.... nevertheless, the game today showcases (and to a certain extent, rewards) the violence and not the fundamentals of the game. The slow transmogriphication of the NFL into the UFC will only fortify one base while alienating the other. Unfortunately, those guarding the fortification correlate to the same demographics becoming less sought by advertisers predominantly by way of the fractioning of their disposable incomes.
Piffle or not piffle?
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Sorry (not sorry) late to the party, but forget Kapaernick, forget Trump, forget the kneeling and the protests and revival of the XFL, the ending of the Vikings game this past weekend demonstrates what is truly wrong with the game of football today and foretells its (relative) inevitable death.
Williams was going for the hit, not trying to make a tackle. Whether or not he was deliberately trying injure Diggs is irrelevant and futile to argue.... nevertheless, the game today showcases (and to a certain extent, rewards) the violence and not the fundamentals of the game. The slow transmogriphication of the NFL into the UFC will only fortify one base while alienating the other. Unfortunately, those guarding the fortification correlate to the same demographics becoming less sought by advertisers predominantly by way of the fractioning of their disposable incomes.
Piffle or not piffle?
Looked to me like he actually was trying to avoid the hit.
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4ever
I am with you. All I care about is Rodgers leading Pack to another SB win. What he, or anyone else does in private life, means zero to me.
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Whatever his sexual orientation, trading in Olivia Munn for Danica Patrick shows terrible, terrible judgment.
Maybe Danica is nicer and more fun to be with?
I know ... what a ridiculous line of thinking!
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My brother in law dated a series of pretty hot girls. When he first started dating his now wife, we were surprised how plain she was. But she is awesome. 25 years later it's working out fine.
And it's not as though Danica is a hag of some sort.
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Maybe Danica is nicer and more fun to be with?
I know ... what a ridiculous line of thinking!
Eh? What are you prattling on about? In what way could this possibly matter?
Actually, Olivia seems like a pretty fun person.
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Are we at the point in society where we can say that, honestly, who gives a fack?
Guessing Packer fans would be more upset by the fact she is a fib.
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Eh? What are you prattling on about? In what way could this possibly matter?
Actually, Olivia seems like a pretty fun person.
I'll just leave this here...
http://uproxx.com/viral/olivia-munn-has-taken-sexting-to-a-whole-new-level/
NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW
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Eh? What are you prattling on about? In what way could this possibly matter?
Actually, Olivia seems like a pretty fun person.
I don't want to get all name-droppy (so I won't), but I did meet a lot of famous people in my former line of work. A lot of the folks who seemed great were jerks, and a lot of the people who seemed like jerks were great, but most fell someewhere between the extremes.
As is the case with most of us non-stars.
None of us really know Danica, Munn, Rodgers or any of these other beautiful people.
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I'll just leave this here...
http://uproxx.com/viral/olivia-munn-has-taken-sexting-to-a-whole-new-level/
NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW
See?? Fun person!
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I don't want to get all name-droppy (so I won't), but I did meet a lot of famous people in my former line of work. A lot of the folks who seemed great were jerks, and a lot of the people who seemed like jerks were great, but most fell someewhere between the extremes.
As is the case with most of us non-stars.
None of us really know Danica, Munn, Rodgers or any of these other beautiful people.
a very good friend of mine knows rodgers well. has golfed with him many times, spent weekends with him and donald driver at his charity open. he is a helluva golfer. he has done dental on him and text messages him before most games. he responds back most of the time. says he is pretty much what you see-a regular joe. never has he suspected, nor does it matter that he is gay. i have my doubts that he is, but, whatever
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a very good friend of mine knows rodgers well. has golfed with him many times, spent weekends with him and donald driver at his charity open. he is a helluva golfer. he has done dental on him and text messages him before most games. he responds back most of the time. says he is pretty much what you see-a regular joe. never has he suspected, nor does it matter that he is gay. i have my doubts that he is, but, whatever
"Regular Joes" can't be gay?
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"Regular Joes" can't be gay?
Sure, but not Regular Aarons!
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Can we get back to the ways the Vikings will end the season with an epic loss?
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Can we get back to the ways the Vikings will end the season with an epic loss?
Maybe the exact same scenario ... but this time the Vikings receiver will spike the football a yard or so before he gets to the end zone.
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Can we get back to the ways the Vikings will end the season with an epic loss?
that's going to happen, period. no need to discuss.
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Looked to me like he actually was trying to avoid the hit.
It did at the end look like he was letting up or diverting in order to avoid a penalty, but even so, he would not have done so if his original intentions were not to strike him at full speed. If he simply wanted to make the tackle, all he had to do was stand 12 inches behind him and wrap him up as soon as the ball hit his hands.
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It’s all the same in the dark aina?
Join the 21st century.....you can leave the lights on ;) ;D
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Whatever his sexual orientation, trading in Olivia Munn for Danica Patrick shows terrible, terrible judgment.
This is the most truthful statement in the history of the internet.
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"Regular Joes" can't be gay?
you aren't saying i said "regular joes" can't be gay? right? cuz that's not what i said, right?
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you aren't saying i said "regular joes" can't be gay? right? cuz that's not what i said, right?
That's why I asked the clarifying question before saying anything further
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That's why I asked the clarifying question before saying anything further
don't know where in my comment you could conflate the two, but i guess there are some here who always think the worst first then get ready to pounce-not 8-)
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It did at the end look like he was letting up or diverting in order to avoid a penalty, but even so, he would not have done so if his original intentions were not to strike him at full speed. If he simply wanted to make the tackle, all he had to do was stand 12 inches behind him and wrap him up as soon as the ball hit his hands.
Fix was in!
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Maybe the exact same scenario ... but this time the Vikings receiver will spike the football a yard or so before he gets to the end zone.
When Diggs held up the ball, I half expected it to fall out of his hands. A game ending fumble out of the end zone or Diggs recovering a forward fumble that cannot be advanced would have been fitting ways for the Vikings to lose.
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Fix was in!
Sure is. NFL: Vikes vs. Pats in the Super Bowl.
#donedeal
Edit: Added link
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/vikings-patriots-going-super-bowl-according-google-nfl-214443239.html
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Dis wood help attendance at da Super Bowl, aina?
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Dis wood help attendance at da Super Bowl, aina?
depends on who's singin with justin, 'ey? can sofia vergara carry a note? watch the sales of stadium pals go thru the roof
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GOAT (s) QB and coach. Now finish the job in two weeks.
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GOAT (s) QB and coach.
Getting more and more difficult to argue with that....
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Jags got tired, well I guess, in fourth. They are young and will be tough in future, but blew that opportunity up 10 with 9 to go. Pats with no Gronk, yet Brady throws for 150 and two TDs in fourth.
Pats are ridiculous, 7 straight AFC championship games and now Super Bowl bound three out of last four.
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Skoke? Up 7-0, then give up 24 straight points. Down 24-7 at half.
Case = Jay ?
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Eagles fans are doing the “Skole” chant but replacing “Skole” with “Foles.” Effing incredible.
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Queens 'D' finally showing some fight - goin' after the holder after an extra point. Holder was probably too tired to fight back.
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Eagles fans are doing the “Skole” chant but replacing “Skole” with “Foles.” Effing incredible.
;D Joe Buck must follow Scoop in real time.
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Vikings handling their smoking with class. Looks like the Seahawks out there.
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It looks like Philly will cover the spread.
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peterson(the ex-packer qb) sure figured out minnesota's offense
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It looks like Philly will cover the spread.
Like they covered the Viking receivers.
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does philly have a quarterback problem now?
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does philly have a quarterback problem now?
No.
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I stopped watching the game when the Eagles scored to make it 14-7. How'd it end up?
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does philly have a quarterback problem now?
Better their situation than Minnesota's. Which of the 3 do you re-sign?
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with the Viking's D not showing up, a missing offensive adjustment, and Aaron Rodgers watching himself on commercials from his couch......just like you and me.
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Vikings now own two of the three worst ass kickings in NFC Chapionship history. Unfortunately, the wrong ends.
Worse run than the Bills?
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Vikings hold the record for being in the playoffs 29 times, each one ending in a loss.
Buffalo is only at 16.
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If only the Eagles had signed Marcus Williams, and if only he had completely whiffed on a half-dozen "Minnesota Miracle" TD plays.
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Thank god philly won i would hate to watch the vikings play at home in the super bowl
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does philly have a quarterback problem now?
Not at all. I saw Wentz in person twice this year, night and day difference to Foles. Frankly, Wentz was doing things on the field (elusiveness, accuracy on the run, etc.) that I'd only seen Rodgers do regularly before.
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Vikings hold the record for being in the playoffs 29 times, each one ending in a loss.
Buffalo is only at 16.
(Lions' fan) PLAYOFFS ?!?!?
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Better their situation than Minnesota's. Which of the 3 do you re-sign?
Nick Foles to Minnesota #N2M
I seriously am intrigued how that whole thing plays out. Wouldn't be shocking to see one get signed (likely Bridgewater, as he has the least leverage) and one franchised. Lot of capital to invest, but it's hard to see them just letting Keenum walk after the season he had. It's not like he was Dilfer being dragged through the postseason.
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Lot of capital to invest, but it's hard to see them just letting Keenum walk after the season he had.
Oh, jesus, what's the point? So the Vikings can get to the playoffs again to push the envelope in the Epic Loss category?
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Nick Foles to Minnesota #N2M
I seriously am intrigued how that whole thing plays out. Wouldn't be shocking to see one get signed (likely Bridgewater, as he has the least leverage) and one franchised. Lot of capital to invest, but it's hard to see them just letting Keenum walk after the season he had. It's not like he was Dilfer being dragged through the postseason.
I think Minnesota's first question has to be whether it thinks Bridgewater can be the guy they drafted him to be. If yes, he's got to be the plan in some way, shape or form. If not, things are pretty wide open and they're probably best off riding with him as the backup and either Keenum or Bradford to start next year (Keenum would be the more risk-averse option).
If I had to put money on it, I think Foles is back on the second year of his deal as Wentz's backup next year, regardless of what happens in the SB, and Keenum gets something between McCown and Glennon money to "compete" with Darnold, Rosen, or Allen.
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Neither Doug Williams nor Jeff Hostetler came close to reliving their Super Bowl glory after their successful relief stints.
I'd be skeptical of both Foles and Keenum going forward.
Of course, things worked out OK for the Pats after Brady replaced Bledsoe!
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If he becomes available (big if), the Vikes should give Brees a blank check on a 3 year deal.
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I'm just happy to know that whatever decision the Vikes make at QB it will be the wrong one.
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I'm content in the knowledge that my team lost in the playoffs to the team that lost to the team that lost by 31 points to the Eagles.
What I'm saying is that the Panthers are pretty much the NFC champions!
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What the hell was the Jags DB doing on the final TD to Amendola? Watch the replay. Amendola made a hell of a catch, got 1 foot down with his other leg 90 degrees out to the side. As Amendola's body begins to come down, he's able to contort that 2nd leg and get his toes in as he's falling out the back of the endzone. The DB was a couple feet away from Amendola when the catch is made. DB does nothing but watch the play unfold. If he makes any decent effort to push Amendola, there is almost no way he gets the 2nd foot in.
Couldn't find a gif. Here's a pic mid-catch
(http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/content/wpvi/images/cms/2974992_630x354.jpg)
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Neither Doug Williams nor Jeff Hostetler came close to reliving their Super Bowl glory after their successful relief stints.
I'd be skeptical of both Foles and Keenum going forward.
Of course, things worked out OK for the Pats after Brady replaced Bledsoe!
I actually looked this up yesterday, Hostetler made the Pro Bowl in '94 with the Raiders a few years after that SB win. Never would have guessed!
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CBS, NBC and Fox put in bids for Thursday Night Football for 2018, Sports Business Daily reports.
CBS and NBC reportedly submitted bids less than they paid for 2017 (a combined $450M) after losing money on the deal this year amid waning advertiser interest. But Fox is reported to have put in a higher-than-current bid.
ESPN, Turner and Facebook decided not to bid.
Bottom line, the NFL will probably go with the high bidder, Fox, meaning that for all the doom and gloom, the right to televise mostly bad TNF games will go for a record price. Again.
Meanwhile, rich folks are jockeying for position to pay a record price for the Panthers.
Yes, the NFL is dead, dead, dead. Put a fork in the league.
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The national anthem last night in Phillie was as good as any I’ve heard in years. Can’t stand it when “musicians” go off-script.
Ya, I know.
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Did any dem playas neel, hey?
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Did any dem playas neel, hey?
https://www.youtube.com/v/ZgIezyUtYmQ
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This is gonna go well, regardless of your position. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2018/01/22/nfl-rejects-amvets-super-bowl-program-ad/1056383001/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2018/01/22/nfl-rejects-amvets-super-bowl-program-ad/1056383001/)
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This is gonna go well, regardless of your position. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2018/01/22/nfl-rejects-amvets-super-bowl-program-ad/1056383001/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2018/01/22/nfl-rejects-amvets-super-bowl-program-ad/1056383001/)
Joe Chenelly, executive director of AMVETS, said players who protest by kneeling during the national anthem are exercising their free speech and that AMVETS only wanted to do the same.
“The protests are very much out of our purview,” he said. “We were not looking to comment on those. This is part of our Americanism program”
...
Marion Polk, AMVETS national commander, wrote a letter to NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, dated Monday, that says in part: “Freedom of speech works both ways. We respect the rights of those who choose to protest as these rights are precisely what our members have fought — and in many cases died — for. But imposing corporate censorship to deny that same right to those veterans who have secured it for us all is reprehensible and totally beyond the pale.”
Why are people allowing these bozos to run an "Americanism program" if they don't really understand what a Constitutional right entails?
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If the players took out an ad saying, "Don't Stand," the equivalent response would have been the one AMVETS attempted to use in the program.
All some players did was kneel. The equivalent response would be for AMVETS folks to not kneel.
It was a cheap, obvious political ploy in the NFL's marquee event. Good for the NFL rejecting it.
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Death of modern football as we know it? Chance this gets passed is probably slim to none but it is interesting.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/sports/proposed-law-could-ban-tackle-football-for-children-under-age-12-in-illinois/amp/
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I doubt it's the death of anything. When I was a kid, nobody tackled until middle school. The generation before didn't tackle until high school If anything, it may introduce more kids to the game whose parents are unfortable having them tackle when they're too young.
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Death of modern football as we know it? Chance this gets passed is probably slim to none but it is interesting.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/sports/proposed-law-could-ban-tackle-football-for-children-under-age-12-in-illinois/amp/
Not anything close to death, in fact I think it would save the game. Yes, you might lose a few participants to other sports (my dad wouldn't let me play football until high school and by the time I got there I was in ODP so wasn't going to switch to football even though I would have been good at it) but ultimately it would lower the instances of injury and concerns of concussion issues which is more likely to kill popularity.
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There's no reason to be playing tackle football before age 12 anyway.
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There's no reason to be playing tackle football before age 12 anyway.
Sure there is. $$$
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I doubt it's the death of anything. When I was a kid, nobody tackled until middle school. The generation before didn't tackle until high school If anything, it may introduce more kids to the game whose parents are unfortable having them tackle when they're too young.
Not anything close to death, in fact I think it would save the game. Yes, you might lose a few participants to other sports (my dad wouldn't let me play football until high school and by the time I got there I was in ODP so wasn't going to switch to football even though I would have been good at it) but ultimately it would lower the instances of injury and concerns of concussion issues which is more likely to kill popularity.
Agree with both of these.
It would help football.
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There's no reason to be playing tackle football before age 12 anyway.
Baloney.
We had more fun than children are entitled to have playing tackle as kids. It was usually something like four-on-four. Most of us were about the same weight and size and couldn't hurt someone to save their's or our lives.
On an organized level, my son played tackle beginning at age 7. He had a blast and, again, the weights were relatively comparable. He stopped as a sophomore in high school when he looked at the size of the guys lining up opposite him and KNEW he would be killed.
If you're going to apply some arbitrary standard to youth football, then you better do so to other sports. My daughter, the elegant hard-charger who was the Mongol Horde of soccer players, had far more injuries and concessions playing soccer than my son ever did playing football.
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Baloney.
We had more fun than children are entitled to have playing tackle as kids. It was usually something like four-on-four. Most of us were about the same weight and size and couldn't hurt someone to save their's or our lives.
On an organized level, my son played tackle beginning at age 7. He had a blast and, again, the weights were relatively comparable. He stopped as a sophomore in high school when he looked at the size of the guys lining up opposite him and KNEW he would be killed.
If you're going to apply some arbitrary standard to youth football, then you better do so to other sports. My daughter, the elegant hard-charger who was the Mongol Horde of soccer players, had far more injuries and concessions playing soccer than my son ever did playing football.
I should have clarified. I was referring to organized tackle football. There's no benefit to playing organized tackle football when kids are that young/small. Pick-up football games in someone's backyard? Play on!
I'd be fine with soccer being banned completely ;)
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Baloney.
We had more fun than children are entitled to have playing tackle as kids. It was usually something like four-on-four. Most of us were about the same weight and size and couldn't hurt someone to save their's or our lives.
On an organized level, my son played tackle beginning at age 7. He had a blast and, again, the weights were relatively comparable. He stopped as a sophomore in high school when he looked at the size of the guys lining up opposite him and KNEW he would be killed.
If you're going to apply some arbitrary standard to youth football, then you better do so to other sports. My daughter, the elegant hard-charger who was the Mongol Horde of soccer players, had far more injuries and concessions playing soccer than my son ever did playing football.
There is zero reason kids should play organized, padded tackle football at age 7. And it isn't simply about concussions, but about repetitive hits to the head.
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Baloney.
We had more fun than children are entitled to have playing tackle as kids. It was usually something like four-on-four. Most of us were about the same weight and size and couldn't hurt someone to save their's or our lives.
On an organized level, my son played tackle beginning at age 7. He had a blast and, again, the weights were relatively comparable. He stopped as a sophomore in high school when he looked at the size of the guys lining up opposite him and KNEW he would be killed.
If you're going to apply some arbitrary standard to youth football, then you better do so to other sports. My daughter, the elegant hard-charger who was the Mongol Horde of soccer players, had far more injuries and concessions playing soccer than my son ever did playing football.
pick-up "tackle" football in the neighborhood is a totally different than organized padded football prior to high school.
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Man, I hate both of these Superbowl teams so much .. want both of them to lose.
http://m.startribune.com/an-open-letter-from-kentucky-to-the-people-of-minnesota-about-those-eagles-fans/470788223/
After the Vikings beat the Saints, my father and I decided to go to Philadelphia the following week for the NFC Championship Game. It turned out to be one of the biggest mistakes I have ever made — and it had nothing to do with the outcome of the game. I witnessed, and experienced, the rudest, most obnoxious and violent behavior I have ever seen at a sporting event.
From the moment we got on the subway to go to the game until the time we made it back to our hotel room afterward, we were subjected to constant verbal and physical assault. We were called names I can’t repeat because they are unfit for print. We were shoved, had objects thrown at us and were warned that if the Vikings won, we would be lucky to make it out alive.
I have never been to a sporting event where I feared for my safety until last Sunday. All because I had the audacity to come to the game wearing a Vikings jersey.
I wish I could say that this behavior came from only a few individuals. Unfortunately, it was pervasive. And those who did not participate stood idly by and watched it happen. I have no problem with Eagles fans celebrating a historic win. That’s the joy of sport. But you can do so with class and not ruin the time of fellow football fans whose only “crime” is being from another part of the country.
I am not sure how it became culturally acceptable in Philadelphia to behave in such a manner, but it’s a shame. I was literally embarrassed to be a human.
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Man, I hate both of these Superbowl teams so much .. want both of them to lose.
http://m.startribune.com/an-open-letter-from-kentucky-to-the-people-of-minnesota-about-those-eagles-fans/470788223/
After the Vikings beat the Saints, my father and I decided to go to Philadelphia the following week for the NFC Championship Game. It turned out to be one of the biggest mistakes I have ever made — and it had nothing to do with the outcome of the game. I witnessed, and experienced, the rudest, most obnoxious and violent behavior I have ever seen at a sporting event.
From the moment we got on the subway to go to the game until the time we made it back to our hotel room afterward, we were subjected to constant verbal and physical assault. We were called names I can’t repeat because they are unfit for print. We were shoved, had objects thrown at us and were warned that if the Vikings won, we would be lucky to make it out alive.
I have never been to a sporting event where I feared for my safety until last Sunday. All because I had the audacity to come to the game wearing a Vikings jersey.
I wish I could say that this behavior came from only a few individuals. Unfortunately, it was pervasive. And those who did not participate stood idly by and watched it happen. I have no problem with Eagles fans celebrating a historic win. That’s the joy of sport. But you can do so with class and not ruin the time of fellow football fans whose only “crime” is being from another part of the country.
I am not sure how it became culturally acceptable in Philadelphia to behave in such a manner, but it’s a shame. I was literally embarrassed to be a human.
https://twitter.com/ViolationsGreg/status/955285405154381830/photo/1
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Yeah, that Millie thing .. wow.
I mean, it's one thing to say "eff that 99 year old grandmother who wants to see the Vikings win" .. it takes an entirely higher plane of d-baggery to go out and buy materials for a banner, paint it, and parade it around proudly.
Then you think, well, only a couple guys are d-bags ... until you find out there were MULTIPLE banners .. I mean, you have to wake up early to plan that level of a-holitude. (Or maybe it comes naturally.)
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Yeah, that Millie thing .. wow.
I mean, it's one thing to say "eff that 99 year old grandmother who wants to see the Vikings win" .. it takes an entirely higher plane of d-baggery to go out and buy materials for a banner, paint it, and parade it around proudly.
Then you think, well, only a couple guys are d-bags ... until you find out there were MULTIPLE banners .. I mean, you have to wake up early to plan that level of a-holitude. (Or maybe it comes naturally.)
They're trying to one up each other. Its some sort of deplorable badge of honor.
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pick-up "tackle" football in the neighborhood is a totally different than organized padded football prior to high school.
We didn't have a football team in high school so we would play tackle behind the school every few weeks or so.
But man, some of those hits were viscous and very few of us had any chance of playing varsity football if our school had a team.
That being said, injuries were relatively minor because when you don't wear pads l, nobody is going head first or even shoulder first. NFL should go back to thin pads and Lester helmets.
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We didn't have a football team in high school so we would play tackle behind the school every few weeks or so.
But man, some of those hits were viscous and very few of us had any chance of playing varsity football if our school had a team.
That being said, injuries were relatively minor because when you don't wear pads l, nobody is going head first or even shoulder first. NFL should go back to thin pads and Lester helmets.
Subscribe. Been saying this for years. "Pads" and helmets are weapons.
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Rates of concussions in rugby are higher than in football. A lack of pads and helmets would make the problem worse. What would improve the problem is proper tackling.
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Went to NFL Live on Nicollet Mall yesterday. Tons of cops. Lots of body armor and machine guns. Cops were very friendly. Many were getting their pics taken with visitors.
I thought the mall experience was kinda blah. Live music in the evening definitely added some energy.
Watched the zip line over the Mississippi. Eff, that’s intimidating.
Gouge mode is fully engaged. $9 for a Bud light. Didn’t even get a kiss. Dilly dilly!
Had a beverage at Lyons Pub. Reg menu and prices. Went next door to Ike’s for dinner. Burger prices up five bucks. Tomahawk ribeye on menu for $180. Must be counting on really stupid Eagles fans for that one.
Didn’t see any Eagles fan pushing grandmothers into the gutter. Must not be in town yet.
Who was the Scooper with the MU hat walking the Mall yesterday afternoon?
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Wuz BeeJay hittin' on adolescents again orr wuz he at da glory hole, hey?
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Wuz BeeJay hittin' on adolescents again orr wuz he at da glory hole, hey?
JB was there as a family outing yesterday. He'll be hitting Philly MILF's later in the week no doubt.
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Rates of concussions in rugby are higher than in football. A lack of pads and helmets would make the problem worse. What would improve the problem is proper tackling.
Not at those speeds. Get real. Slow down the game.
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Not sure what you are disputing. Rugby, a sport that involves tackling (like football) without significant padding (like you are advocating) has a higher concussion rate than football.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-concussion-youth-sports/concussion-rates-highest-for-kids-in-rugby-hockey-and-football-idUSKBN0TZ2RE20151216
"For each of the sports, they looked at concussion rates based on minutes of athletic exposure (AE), which includes competitions or practices with the potential for injury.
The overall concussion risk across all of the sports included in the analysis was 0.23 injuries per 1,000 AEs.
By comparison, the concussion risk per 1,000 AEs for rugby was 4.18, while it was 1.2 for hockey and 0.53 for American football."
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Not sure what you are disputing. Rugby, a sport that involves tackling (like football) without significant padding (like you are advocating) has a higher concussion rate than football.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-concussion-youth-sports/concussion-rates-highest-for-kids-in-rugby-hockey-and-football-idUSKBN0TZ2RE20151216
"For each of the sports, they looked at concussion rates based on minutes of athletic exposure (AE), which includes competitions or practices with the potential for injury.
The overall concussion risk across all of the sports included in the analysis was 0.23 injuries per 1,000 AEs.
By comparison, the concussion risk per 1,000 AEs for rugby was 4.18, while it was 1.2 for hockey and 0.53 for American football."
I'm disputing that proper tackling fixes the problem.
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How 'bout dat Pro Bowl, hey?
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I'm disputing that proper tackling fixes the problem.
I never said proper tackling would fix the problem. I said it would "improve" the problem.
As long as tackling is part of the game, football is always going to be a relatively dangerous sport. But not wearing pads would make the problem much worse.
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Not sure what you are disputing. Rugby, a sport that involves tackling (like football) without significant padding (like you are advocating) has a higher concussion rate than football.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-concussion-youth-sports/concussion-rates-highest-for-kids-in-rugby-hockey-and-football-idUSKBN0TZ2RE20151216
"For each of the sports, they looked at concussion rates based on minutes of athletic exposure (AE), which includes competitions or practices with the potential for injury.
The overall concussion risk across all of the sports included in the analysis was 0.23 injuries per 1,000 AEs.
By comparison, the concussion risk per 1,000 AEs for rugby was 4.18, while it was 1.2 for hockey and 0.53 for American football."
Never would have guessed that. I've watched a ton of Rugby over the past year and a half and can only recall maybe two concussions.
What rugby does right though, at least at the professional level is that they report head injuries at a much higher rate.
For example, even if there is the slightest bit to the head no matter how small, they are required to go into a dark room off the field for 10 minutes before coming back on.
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For example, even if there is the slightest bit to the head no matter how small, they are required to go into a dark room off the field for 10 minutes before coming back on.
If you send a football player to a dark room for 10 minutes after every slight hit to the head, you'll have nobody left on the field but kickers, punters and QBs midway through the first quarter.
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Do they have the Lombardi Trophy in Minneapolis yet? Is it somewhere where the public can go check it out? I don’t know how these things work. But if it is available for public viewing Vikings fans may consider taking a look now. This might be the only time one of those trophies is ever in the state of Minnesota.
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Do they have the Lombardi Trophy in Minneapolis yet? Is it somewhere where the public can go check it out? I don’t know how these things work. But if it is available for public viewing Vikings fans may consider taking a look now. This might be the only time one of those trophies is ever in the state of Minnesota.
They'll get to host the super bowl again.
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Wow. KC trades Alex Smith to Redskins. Looks like Kirk Cousins not getting tagged again and he ends up in? Denver, Both New York teams, Arizona, lots of teams will want him now that it appears Skins have given up and he will make a boatload of cash. Will also effect the draft.
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And the Skins gave Smith a four year extension. I don't get this. Why f*ck around with Cousins for the last few years only to trade for Smith and give him an extension?
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Mmmm,.....
Jets fire OC Morton after one year.
Promote Jeremy Bates to OC last week
Cousins likes Bates and has some sort of connection.
Maybe some backdoor deal going on here.
Still believe he goes to Denver though.
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I'm not sure trading for a 33 year old Alex Smith is the answer for Washington. Seems very lateral to me.
If I were the Browns, I'd go all in on Cousins.
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I'm not sure trading for a 33 year old Alex Smith is the answer for Washington. Seems very lateral to me.
If I were the Browns, I'd go all in on Cousins.
Bring out the armored cars with the cash.
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I've said on here before that you always need to take QB salaries as an outlier in pro sports, but 4 years and $71 million guaranteed for 33 year old middle of the road Alex Smith is something.
Curious to see how Rodgers reacts once Brees and Cousins get locked up.
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If someone can give me a compelling argument for the Redskins to make this deal, I'd like to hear it.
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If someone can give me a compelling argument for the Redskins to make this deal, I'd like to hear it.
Cousins a free agent and told them he isn’t signing.
Redskins not going to tag him for 34 million and Gruden said no more one year deals, need continuity.
Redskins not high enough in draft to get young QB, leaving them with Colt McCoy
But Smith at that price, strange. But gives them a QB for few years, no worry about a starting QB status
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If someone can give me a compelling argument for the Redskins to make this deal, I'd like to hear it.
They get a reliable, above average QB for four years at a reasonable cost (a 3rd and a slot corner).
That's compelling enough.
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Cousins will be 30 at the start of the season and has yet to win a playoff game. Very Cutler-esque. At 30, Jay had one playoff win, but only because he was lucky enough to play a sub .500 team.
Some stupid GM is going to give this guy a long term deal somewhere in the $25 -$30 million per year range..
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This trade is a lot more than just Smith for a 3rd rounder (which is essentially a wash because Wash will get a third round comp for Cousins leaving in 2019) and Fuller.
You have to take into account Washington's asset/cap management while Cousins was there. As they could be going into the final year of the 3 yr/$40 mil deal that Cousins agent proposed (Cousins got 2 yrs/$44 mil under the tag).
Fuller is the key to this deal, he's a young/good (potentially very good) slot corner, still with 2 years on his rookie deal.
I don't understand the rush from Washington's perspective. I can't imagine the price to acquire Smith going up before the league year starts. Maybe Cleveland made an offer, but Dorsey would also realize there's zero rush. The Chiefs were no way keeping Smith. I don't think Smith being Washington's QB is curious, but the when/how they got to this point is.
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Cousins will be 30 at the start of the season and has yet to win a playoff game. Very Cutler-esque. At 30, Jay had one playoff win, but only because he was lucky enough to play a sub .500 team.
Some stupid GM is going to give this guy a long term deal somewhere in the $25 -$30 million per year range..
Cousins will easily get at least $28, probably $30, but the number shouldn't matter. When was the last time a QB like Cousins hit the open market? Brees? The QB market resets every year based on who's deal is up and the cap increasing. I've said before, if I were Rodgers, I'd sign 1 year deals from here until retirement.
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Do they have the Lombardi Trophy in Minneapolis yet? Is it somewhere where the public can go check it out? I don’t know how these things work. But if it is available for public viewing Vikings fans may consider taking a look now. This might be the only time one of those trophies is ever in the state of Minnesota.
#14Wins
The trophy is currently a block from my place at the Super Bowl Experience. Costs $$$ to get in, so it's only available for the *paying* public.
Lots of tanks and guns out on the streets of downtown this weekend. Have felt the area (my place is also a block from Super Bowl Live) get more and more busy, with the out of towners joining the fold in greater numbers. I expect to see some interesting things the next few nights.
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#13 Championships
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#14Wins
The trophy is currently a block from my place at the Super Bowl Experience. Costs $$$ to get in, so it's only available for the *paying* public.
Lots of tanks and guns out on the streets of downtown this weekend. Have felt the area (my place is also a block from Super Bowl Live) get more and more busy, with the out of towners joining the fold in greater numbers. I expect to see some interesting things the next few nights.
Stay safe, those Eagles fans are... unpredictable.
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#14Wins
The trophy is currently a block from my place at the Super Bowl Experience. Costs $$$ to get in, so it's only available for the *paying* public.
Lots of tanks and guns out on the streets of downtown this weekend. Have felt the area (my place is also a block from Super Bowl Live) get more and more busy, with the out of towners joining the fold in greater numbers. I expect to see some interesting things the next few nights.
And according to the national media, it gets cold in Minnesota in January and February. I'm shocked by this.
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Fox gets Thursday night NFL games reportedly paying higher price than the NFL was getting from NBC/CBS.
So much for the decline in ratings meaning something. So much for Thursday night football being bad.
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Fox gets Thursday night NFL games reportedly paying higher price than the NFL was getting from NBC/CBS.
So much for the decline in ratings meaning something. So much for Thursday night football being bad.
Well, as a casual NFL viewer, I do think Thursday night football has been bad. The games generally have been of poor quality the past few years, and it can't be good for these athletes to have to play another violent game so soon after the one before. No league that claims to care about player safety should want Thursday games; and players who claim to care about their own safety should be willing to accept a little less salary so they don't have to play on Thursdays.
But your overall point is correct - the product apparently is attractive enough for it to bring in record rights fees.
Once again, the reports of the NFL's death have been greatly exaggerated.
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Well, as a casual NFL viewer, I do think Thursday night football has been bad. The games generally have been of poor quality the past few years, and it can't be good for these athletes to have to play another violent game so soon after the one before. No league that claims to care about player safety should want Thursday games; and players who claim to care about their own safety should be willing to accept a little less salary so they don't have to play on Thursdays.
But your overall point is correct - the product apparently is attractive enough for it to bring in record rights fees.
Once again, the reports of the NFL's death have been greatly exaggerated.
I meant being bad enough to affect ratings and rights fees.
I also don't know how much it impacts player safety though. Are players more likely to be injured on Thursdays? Is that counter-balanced by having ten days off afterwards? I mean, Detroit has played on Thursday afternoon for decades and I never recall hearing player safety issues being brought up. I tend to think a team playing one Thursday a year isn't that big a deal from a safety stand point.
I do think the overall problem with Thursdays is more of a lack of time to prepare issue.
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I meant being bad enough to affect ratings and rights fees.
I also don't know how much it impacts player safety though. Are players more likely to be injured on Thursdays? Is that counter-balanced by having ten days off afterwards? I mean, Detroit has played on Thursday afternoon for decades and I never recall hearing player safety issues being brought up. I tend to think a team playing one Thursday a year isn't that big a deal from a safety stand point.
I do think the overall problem with Thursdays is more of a lack of time to prepare issue.
Ask and ye shall receive:
The NFL released its injury data for the season and it showed a year-over-year increase in injuries during Thursday night games. According to the league, an average of 6.9 injuries were reported during Thursday games compared to 5.3 injuries per game last year. Moreover, the 6.9 is higher than the 6.3 injuries reported per game for Sunday and Monday games.
http://buffalonews.com/2018/01/29/data-shows-more-injuries-reported-in-thursday-night-nfl-games/
From interviews I've read and heard with several players (anecdotal evidence, obviously) the issue isn't just injury risk, but that they physically aren't as ready to perform on a Thursday following a Sunday game, i.e. the shortened period of recovery negatively impacts their ability to perform.
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Well there ya go. Thanks.
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It wouldn't be that difficult to schedule teams to play on Thursday night coming off their bye. I'm sure the players would welcome a 10-day layoff, a game then another 10-day layoff. The obvious problem is that byes only go from Week 5-12 so, if you include the SB champs opening on a Thursday, that would only be 9 weeks of Thursday games.
I know the NFL is all about player safety but I'm sure there's a logical reason why they don't do it...
(http://thesportsgeeks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/GoodellMoneyDive.gif)
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#14Wins
The trophy is currently a block from my place at the Super Bowl Experience. Costs $$$ to get in, so it's only available for the *paying* public.
Lots of tanks and guns out on the streets of downtown this weekend. Have felt the area (my place is also a block from Super Bowl Live) get more and more busy, with the out of towners joining the fold in greater numbers. I expect to see some interesting things the next few nights.
Should’ve moved in with newsie for a couple weeks and thrown that up on Airbnb. Let those Eagles and Pats fans find what they will.
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It wouldn't be that difficult to schedule teams to play on Thursday night coming off their bye. I'm sure the players would welcome a 10-day layoff, a game then another 10-day layoff. The obvious problem is that byes only go from Week 5-12 so, if you include the SB champs opening on a Thursday, that would only be 9 weeks of Thursday games.
I know the NFL is all about player safety but I'm sure there's a logical reason why they don't do it...
(http://thesportsgeeks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/GoodellMoneyDive.gif)
Solution is simple enough that it's almost like the NFL doesn't care about it's players....
Make it an 18 week schedule instead of 17 weeks and give every team two byes in the schedule. Thursday night games have to be proceeded by a bye week and you can play no more than two Thursday games in a season. Byes go from week 4 to week 16 which gives the NFL 12 weeks of Thursday night games.
Yes, with this plan it thins out their inventory of games on any given weekend but it probably goes from 14 games a week to 8 or 9 a week during "bye season". It likely improves the product all around (players are fresher through out the season) they have another weekend of games to sell. Yes, it pushes the Superbowl to mid-February but that isn't bad or good, so #nomatta.
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Fox gets Thursday night NFL games reportedly paying higher price than the NFL was getting from NBC/CBS.
So much for the decline in ratings meaning something. So much for Thursday night football being bad.
You mean Heisy is clueless? ;D ;D
There will also be more players in the next negotiations. Amazon, Google, Apple, even ESPN possibly looking for a Sunday afternoon contract.
BTW, Thursay night football is really bad. But it's still worth a ton ($3BBBBillion) of money.
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Solution is simple enough that it's almost like the NFL doesn't care about it's players....
Make it an 18 week schedule instead of 17 weeks and give every team two byes in the schedule. Thursday night games have to be proceeded by a bye week and you can play no more than two Thursday games in a season. Byes go from week 4 to week 16 which gives the NFL 12 weeks of Thursday night games.
Yes, with this plan it thins out their inventory of games on any given weekend but it probably goes from 14 games a week to 8 or 9 a week during "bye season". It likely improves the product all around (players are fresher through out the season) they have another weekend of games to sell. Yes, it pushes the Superbowl to mid-February but that isn't bad or good, so #nomatta.
I like this solution, mu03.
You might not remember, but there were a couple of seasons in which the NFL did do 2 byes. I don't know who scotched it - the owners, the players association, the networks, but it got scotched.
If the league did away with all Thursdays except Thanksgiving, you can easily work the byes around Thanksgiving - the 6 teams playing get the previous Sunday off.
But if you insist on keeping a full slate of Thursday games, your solution makes the most sense of any I've seen suggested.
Enjoy spending that $10 million prize for the best suggestion!!!
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Had Goddell over today for some quality time. He was very nice in person.
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I average 22 putts per round, hey?
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NBC Says Ads for Super Bowl LII Have Sold Out
http://variety.com/2018/tv/news/super-bowl-commercials-sell-out-nbc-advertising-1202686092/
“Super Bowl LII is sold out,” said Dan Lovinger, executive vice president of advertising sales, NBC Sports Group,” in a statement. “We booked record revenue, and advertiser enthusiasm for the game is at an all-time high.”
This comes in the wake of the news that Fox paid record rights fees for Thursday night games next season.
Yep, the NFL is dead.
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A reminder that Chicago did not want to tag alshon for 17 mil. So instead they gave Glennon 18 mil
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“We really care about the health of our players.”
No flag on a head to head hit that knocks a guy out of the game.
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Using MLK to sell a truck. Anything to make a buck, I guess.
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“We really care about the health of our players.”
No flag on a head to head hit that knocks a guy out of the game.
Wasn’t a penalty. He was a runner.
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Using MLK to sell a truck. Anything to make a buck, I guess.
“I’ve been to the mountaintop! And you know what got me there? A GMC truck.”
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What a fun half! Almost 700 yards, two passes to QBs, two missed XPs, a missed FG.
Go Eagles!
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A reminder that Chicago did not want to tag alshon for 17 mil. So instead they gave Glennon 18 mil
They had a verbal agreement with him to not tag him, everyone knew the previous year was his last in Chicago.
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Two very borderline calls go Philadelphia's way for touchdowns. As a Lion's fan, I am jealous of those calls.
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But the Eagles made the play they needed.
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Two very borderline calls go Philadelphia's way for touchdowns. As a Lion's fan, I am jealous of those calls.
I disagreed with the first one, but on the second I thought it was clear he had become a runner. The guy took three steps.
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What a dumba$$ play on the return. Just give Brady the ball around the 20. Instead they took a huge risk, wasted about 5 seconds and pinned him deep in his own territory.
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Yea the Ertz TD wasn't questionable at all.
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If that wasn't the most entertaining Super Bowl ever, it sure as hell was in the team picture.
A bazillion yards, a ton of points, 4th-quarter comebacks by both teams, fascinating play calls and decisions by both coaches, trick plays, an incredible story of an Eagles team that many left for dead after their QB got hurt, controversial calls, a huge defensive play to cause a fumble by the winningest QB ever in an otherwise offense-filled game, and a final play with a chance for Brady to pull off one last miracle.
So much fun.
For the record, I agree with a couple others: The first controversial Eagles TD probably should have been overturned, but the second one was a TD. Clement didn't seem to be firmly in possession when his left foot hit out of bounds; Ertz took 3 long strides, starting at the 5-yard line, with the ball firmly in control before he dove for the end zone.
Anyway, I wouldn't care if both shouldn't have been TDs but the calls went against the Pats; karma's a beyotch!
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Alshon Jeffrey guaranteed a Super Bowl after the Bears season ended last year. The man delivered.
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If that wasn't the most entertaining Super Bowl ever, it sure as hell was in the team picture.
Yep - awesome game... and even better with the Pats losing.
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Brady is the GOAT, this idea earlier that Rodgers is (and I think he is fantastic) is crazy.
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“We really care about the health of our players.”
No flag on a head to head hit that knocks a guy out of the game.
https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/960355824752263168 (https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/960355824752263168)
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Stay classy, Philly fans.
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I disagreed with the first one, but on the second I thought it was clear he had become a runner. The guy took three steps.
Dez took around 7 :P
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“We really care about the health of our players.”
No flag on a head to head hit that knocks a guy out of the game.
That wasn't a penalty. Cooks was a runner.
Patrick Chung, however, was knocked unconscious and returned the game without even going into the lockerroom for evaluation.
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My favorite was Al Michaels stating..."once again the Super Bowl ends on the last play of the game". I know what he meant, but still.
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Since my Giants stunk thus season I have not watched many games. This SB was entertaining, but wow it seems they make the rules as they go along. My cousin is a Steelers fan and he said a very similar play by the Steelers was ruled not a touchdown. Come on! Whether he is a receiver or a runner should not matter. If you can or cannot hold onto the ball is what matters.
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Dez took around 7 :P
The officials blew that call, but got it right last night. I’d rather see the calls improve than see a bad call repeated.
And face it, the rule is stupid. If you have possession of the ball when you break the plane of the goal line, it should be a touchdown.
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Since my Giants stunk thus season I have not watched many games. This SB was entertaining, but wow it seems they make the rules as they go along. My cousin is a Steelers fan and he said a very similar play by the Steelers was ruled not a touchdown. Come on! Whether he is a receiver or a runner should not matter. If you can or cannot hold onto the ball is what matters.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000894690/Jesse-James-go-ahead-TD-overturned-ruled-incomplete-pass (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000894690/Jesse-James-go-ahead-TD-overturned-ruled-incomplete-pass)
This is what you are talking about.
And though i 100% agree that the NFL should view both of those as catches the difference is that the Eagle player had become a runner vs. the Steeler player who was still in the act of catching. Much like the hit that KOed the Patriot receiver wasn't illegal because he established himself as a runner i.e. no longer in the act of catching. IMHO the hit should be illegal and both of those catches should be TD's.
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Using MLK to sell a truck. Anything to make a buck, I guess.
I voiced the exact same disdain to Mrs. 82. Really a pathetic commercial.
We very much liked the Eli/Odell ad, as well as the Doritos/Dew side-by-side ads.
And of course I enjoyed the anti-Orange ad about inclusion ... but I would!
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I voiced the exact same disdain to Mrs. 82. Really a pathetic commercial.
We very much liked the Eli/Odell ad, as well as the Doritos/Dew side-by-side ads.
And of course I enjoyed the anti-Orange ad about inclusion ... but I would!
The RAM commercial was universally panned at our Superbowl party...really really poor taste.
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The RAM commercial was universally panned at our Superbowl party...really really poor taste.
Paul Harvey is one thing, with the God made the farmer add from a few years ago. He was a broadcaster/entertainer.
MLK and using his speech is a whole different story and really, really bad by Dodge.
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Tide commercials get my vote
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Brady is the GOAT, this idea earlier that Rodgers is (and I think he is fantastic) is crazy.
I'm not sure how the patriots do it, but I'd like to see how Rodgers operates in a system where he can stand immobile in the pocket and survey the field and almost never seem to have any pressure on him.
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I'm not sure how the patriots do it, but I'd like to see how Rodgers operates in a system where he can stand immobile in the pocket and survey the field and almost never seem to have any pressure on him.
...and then throw to a guy with no defender even near him.
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I'm not sure how the patriots do it, but I'd like to see how Rodgers operates in a system where he can stand immobile in the pocket and survey the field and almost never seem to have any pressure on him.
Yep. How many times was Brady even touched last night? Maybe twice?
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The officials blew that call, but got it right last night. I’d rather see the calls improve than see a bad call repeated.
And face it, the rule is stupid. If you have possession of the ball when you break the plane of the goal line, it should be a touchdown.
But you don't have possession until you complete the catch, and you don't complete the catch until you fall to the ground and have control.
I understand the NFL's issue. If it is simply two feet down with possession of the ball, and a defender hits the receiver at the right time, plays that seem obviously incomplete become fumbles. I don't like the "possession to the ground." I like possession with a football move. Ertz would have been obvious. So would the Steeler catch earlier.
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I'm not sure how the patriots do it, but I'd like to see how Rodgers operates in a system where he can stand immobile in the pocket and survey the field and almost never seem to have any pressure on him.
That's the thing about using the GOAT label in any team sport, especially one in which the guys who get considered for that label - mostly QBs and a few RBs - are so dependent on others around him.
I'm not going to revisit the whole Brady-Rodgers thing again, but until Rodgers has more postseason success, he simply can't be viewed the way Brady is by those who judge these things. I know Rodgers fans don't like that, but them's the facts.
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Yep. How many times was Brady even touched last night? Maybe twice?
He was hit pretty often in the first half. That being said, his receivers are very quick. They don't use the big, physical wideouts that they used to have. They place a premium on speed. And if they want physicality, they just spread Gronk out wide.
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but until Rodgers has more postseason success, he simply can't be viewed the way Brady is by those who judge these things. I know Rodgers fans don't like that, but them's the facts.
I totally agree with this. I just find it amazing that Brady can drop back to the exact same point in the pocket on every pass play and stand there immobile.
I will say that the Patriots have benefited greatly from playing in a division where their rivals have been almost universally bad for more than a decade. Who was the last consistent top 10 QB on any of the Jets, Dolphins, or Bills?
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I understand the NFL's issue. If it is simply two feet down with possession of the ball, and a defender hits the receiver at the right time, plays that seem obviously incomplete become fumbles. I don't like the "possession to the ground." I like possession with a football move. Ertz would have been obvious. So would the Steeler catch earlier.
The fumble thing makes it really hard. I would prefer to see fumbles largely legislated out when in close proximity to catches. I compare it to a foot slipping off the base on a close baseball play. Take the Geronimo Allison fumble at the end of Packers-Panthers. Without a horse in that race, I don't want that to be a fumble, because its not like Allison could have done anything differently there. There's no way you can sufficiently secure that ball that close to a "catch" to prevent it from getting punched out. When that's the case, I just want it to be an incomplete pass and a good pass defensed. I would be cool with a more lenient catch rule, and then a blanket rule that says that a ball has to be possessed for a full second, two seconds, idk, before anything can be ruled a fumble.
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I totally agree with this. I just find it amazing that Brady can drop back to the exact same point in the pocket on every pass play and stand there immobile.
I will say that the Patriots have benefited greatly from playing in a division where their rivals have been almost universally bad for more than a decade. Who was the last consistent top 10 QB on any of the Jets, Dolphins, or Bills?
Couldn't you say basically that same thing about the Packers?
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Couldn't you say basically that same thing about the Packers?
Other than Stafford (and one season of Favre), you make a good point.
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But you don't have possession until you complete the catch, and you don't complete the catch until you fall to the ground and have control.
I understand the NFL's issue. If it is simply two feet down with possession of the ball, and a defender hits the receiver at the right time, plays that seem obviously incomplete become fumbles. I don't like the "possession to the ground." I like possession with a football move. Ertz would have been obvious. So would the Steeler catch earlier.
The possession to the ground only applies if he is going to the ground as part of the catch. Ertz was clearly not going to the ground as part of the catch there for the control through the process of the catch("going to the ground") is not applicable. Ertz took three steps prior to any move that would invoke going to the ground.
Bottom line, the catch rule is garbage.
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So who will quarterback for Phily next season?
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So who will quarterback for Phily next season?
Wentz. Without a doubt. The timetable for his return may result in Foles (or another #2) beginning the season as the starter but Wentz is their guy.
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Panthers' D gets picked apart by the Saints in the Wild Card Round: DC gets hired by the Cardinals as Head Coach.
Chiefs put up an awful 2nd half offensively in the Wild Card Round: OC gets hired by the Bears as Head Coach.
Titans win their Wild Card Game: Head Coach gets fired.
Vikings put up an awful game offensively in the Conf Champ Game: OC gets hired by the Giants as Head Coach.
Patriots' D gets torched by a back-up QB in the Super Bowl: DC gets hired by the Lions as Head Coach.
NFL coaching hires! You gotta love 'em!
(Yes, I know most of these were decided prior to the postseason games being played, but still)
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Panthers' D gets picked apart by the Saints in the Wild Card Round: DC gets hired by the Cardinals as Head Coach.
Chiefs put up an awful 2nd half offensively in the Wild Card Round: OC gets hired by the Bears as Head Coach.
Titans win their Wild Card Game: Head Coach gets fired.
Vikings put up an awful game offensively in the Conf Champ Game: OC gets hired by the Giants as Head Coach.
Patriots' D gets torched by a back-up QB in the Super Bowl: DC gets hired by the Lions as Head Coach.
NFL coaching hires! You gotta love 'em!
(Yes, I know most of these were decided prior to the postseason games being played, but still)
If it was a good idea to hire or fire someone based off one game scoop would be the top gm of all time.
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But you don't have possession until you complete the catch, and you don't complete the catch until you fall to the ground and have control.
That is not correct at all. There are dozens of catches in every single game that are completed before the runner falls to the ground and has control.
I think you probably just mis-stated what you were intending to say and you meant catches where the receiver goes down right after he "catches" the ball and, so, must show control.
But I'm glad they got both calls right last night. We could easily have seen both of those overturned this season.
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Wentz. Without a doubt. The timetable for his return may result in Foles (or another #2) beginning the season as the starter but Wentz is their guy.
You are likely right, but it makes you wonder how long the Eagles can hang onto Foles. Not many Super Bowl MVPs like riding the bench....
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I'm not sure how the patriots do it, but I'd like to see how Rodgers operates in a system where he can stand immobile in the pocket and survey the field and almost never seem to have any pressure on him.
Because Tom Brady gets the ball out on time and isn't looking for a home run every play, is willing to take the underneath routes/what the defense is giving him, sticks to runs when they're called, and is willing to throw an incompletion rather than a hit/sack.
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Because Tom Brady gets the ball out on time and isn't looking for a home run every play, is willing to take the underneath routes/what the defense is giving him, sticks to runs when they're called, and is willing to throw an incompletion rather than a hit/sack.
I think you are being a little harsh as Brady clearly has more time in the pocket....
but, overall, your points are well taken.
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RIP. With every article update this becomes more tragic. Young NFL player did the right thing, lost his life anyway. New details on the man who killed him are troubling.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/05/americas/colts-player-edwin-jackson-killed/index.html
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RIP. With every article update this becomes more tragic. Young NFL player did the right thing, lost his life anyway. New details on the man who killed him are troubling.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/05/americas/colts-player-edwin-jackson-killed/index.html
Agreed. It sure is troubling that people continue to drink and drive.
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Agreed. It sure is troubling that people continue to drink and drive.
This. Drinking and driving was the problem.
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This. Drinking and driving was the problem.
my only question is whose car was the POS driving? If it was his, I eish some liability should fall on the seller of the vehicle. Drinking and driving sucks
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my only question is whose car was the POS driving? If it was his, I eish some liability should fall on the seller of the vehicle. Drinking and driving sucks
The seller of the vehicle? Why should he/she face any liability if it was a legal sale? A seller isn't required to check to see if the buyer has a valid driver's license.
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I said I wish there would be some..An illegal with a prior DUI, no license, and no insurance....what could possibly go wrong...even take out the illegal portion,
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This. Drinking and driving was the problem.
This certainly is the primary cause here, but let's not entirely bury the immigration issue.
It's unfortunate that some will try to turn this into an opportunity to smear immigrants or justify the "build a wall" nonsense, but it's fair to say that it's troubling that this guy was deported twice before after committing crimes and somehow managed to get back into the country. That's clearly a failure of border enforcement. And to me, it points to a need to step up enforcement in these kinds of cases rather than waste time and resources seeking out and deporting dreamers or people who've lived law-abiding lives in this country for decades.
And the above probably doesn't belong in an NFL discussion thread, so I'll apologize and leave it at that.
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I said I wish there would be some..An illegal with a prior DUI, no license, and no insurance....what could possibly go wrong...even take out the illegal portion,
So it's up to the seller of a car to make sure that the buyer is in the US legally, has a good driving record, a license and insurance?
That's ridiculous.
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So it's up to the seller of a car to make sure that the buyer is in the US legally, has a good driving record, a license and insurance?
That's ridiculous.
why not? You are putting the equivalent of a loaded handgun into someone's hands. A simple BMV check would do the trick.
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This certainly is the primary cause here, but let's not entirely bury the immigration issue.
It's unfortunate that some will try to turn this into an opportunity to smear immigrants or justify the "build a wall" nonsense, but it's fair to say that it's troubling that this guy was deported twice before after committing crimes and somehow managed to get back into the country. That's clearly a failure of border enforcement. And to me, it points to a need to step up enforcement in these kinds of cases rather than waste time and resources seeking out and deporting dreamers or people who've lived law-abiding lives in this country for decades.
And the above probably doesn't belong in an NFL discussion thread, so I'll apologize and leave it at that.
Can't argue with that.
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This certainly is the primary cause here, but let's not entirely bury the immigration issue.
It's unfortunate that some will try to turn this into an opportunity to smear immigrants or justify the "build a wall" nonsense, but it's fair to say that it's troubling that this guy was deported twice before after committing crimes and somehow managed to get back into the country. That's clearly a failure of border enforcement. And to me, it points to a need to step up enforcement in these kinds of cases rather than waste time and resources seeking out and deporting dreamers or people who've lived law-abiding lives in this country for decades.
And the above probably doesn't belong in an NFL discussion thread, so I'll apologize and leave it at that.
Agreed.
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Can't argue with that.
I could argue with that...but I would be wrong...+10000
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That's the thing about using the GOAT label in any team sport, especially one in which the guys who get considered for that label - mostly QBs and a few RBs - are so dependent on others around him.
I'm not going to revisit the whole Brady-Rodgers thing again, but until Rodgers has more postseason success, he simply can't be viewed the way Brady is by those who judge these things. I know Rodgers fans don't like that, but them's the facts.
If the Jets drafted Tom Brady way back when, you may never have heard of him. Football is such a team game that it is almost impossible to separate the player from the team. Brady is no doubt a great, great QB, but I don't know how you fairly compare him to Johnny Unitas, Otto Graham, Joe Montana, John Elway, etc.
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This certainly is the primary cause here, but let's not entirely bury the immigration issue.
It's unfortunate that some will try to turn this into an opportunity to smear immigrants or justify the "build a wall" nonsense, but it's fair to say that it's troubling that this guy was deported twice before after committing crimes and somehow managed to get back into the country. That's clearly a failure of border enforcement. And to me, it points to a need to step up enforcement in these kinds of cases rather than waste time and resources seeking out and deporting dreamers or people who've lived law-abiding lives in this country for decades.
And the above probably doesn't belong in an NFL discussion thread, so I'll apologize and leave it at that.
Very well said.
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Lol, Colts.
McDaniels doesn't get another chance after this, right?
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Lol, Colts.
McDaniels doesn't get another chance after this, right?
Incredible.
Looks like McDaniels is eyeing that takeover after the hooded one leaves in 2019. It’s been rumored that Kraft's son loves him and dislikes Hoody.
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Lol, Colts.
McDaniels doesn't get another chance after this, right?
He'll be the next coach at NE, perhaps as soon as 2019. Rumors were that Belichick was contemplating retirement. Wonder if NE would have won if he would have.
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He'll be the next coach at NE, perhaps as soon as 2019. Rumors were that Belichick was contemplating retirement. Wonder if NE would have won if he would have.
This and concerns about Luck’s shoulder not being healed.
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This certainly is the primary cause here, but let's not entirely bury the immigration issue.
It's unfortunate that some will try to turn this into an opportunity to smear immigrants or justify the "build a wall" nonsense, but it's fair to say that it's troubling that this guy was deported twice before after committing crimes and somehow managed to get back into the country. That's clearly a failure of border enforcement. And to me, it points to a need to step up enforcement in these kinds of cases rather than waste time and resources seeking out and deporting dreamers or people who've lived law-abiding lives in this country for decades.
And the above probably doesn't belong in an NFL discussion thread, so I'll apologize and leave it at that.
My wife and I have debated this often the last six months. We have been Democrats our entire lives, but she recently registered as an independent. She is what I would call a Blue Dog Democrat. We own guns, support gun rights, and she has strong feelings on the border. She's not one to build the wall, but she put an important question to me after this latest news.
If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver, would you be angry? My answer was yes.
If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver who was here illegally and deported two previous times, would you feel the same?
My answer was no. I would feel furious. That doesn't make her or I racist. It has nothing to do with Dreamers, whom we largely support. It comes down to incremental loss of life. This man would not have been killed by this man if our border security and policies were where they need to be. The argument that others are killed by drunk driving American citizens makes no difference because they are legally allowed to be in this country. It doesn't make those deaths any less tragic, but losing someone at the hands of someone that isn't allowed to be here and has already been deported multiple times is deeply troubling.
Thank you for hearing my opinion.
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My wife and I have debated this often the last six months. We have been Democrats our entire lives, but she recently registered as an independent. She is what I would call a Blue Dog Democrat. We own guns, support gun rights, and she has strong feelings on the border. She's not one to build the wall, but she put an important question to me after this latest news.
If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver, would you be angry? My answer was yes.
If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver who was here illegally and deported two previous times, would you feel the same?
My answer was no. I would feel furious. That doesn't make her or I racist. It has nothing to do with Dreamers, whom we largely support. It comes down to incremental loss of life. This man would not have been killed by this man if our border security and policies were where they need to be. The argument that others are killed by drunk driving American citizens makes no difference because they are legally allowed to be in this country. It doesn't make those deaths any less tragic, but losing someone at the hands of someone that isn't allowed to be here and has already been deported multiple times is deeply troubling.
Thank you for hearing my opinion.
Chicos?
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Brady is no doubt a great, great QB, but I don't know how you fairly compare him to Johnny Unitas, Otto Graham, Joe Montana, John Elway, etc.
The same could be said of any basketball, hockey or football player.
So you go with the information you have.
By the time he retires, Brady will have most notable passing records, playoff appearances every season of his long career, deep playoff runs most seasons, and at least 5 championships.
Maybe the Jets would have been contenders every year if they had Brady, maybe not. We'll never know.
How many NFL titles did the Patriots win without Brady? (The answer is less than 1.)
I know people who swear Wilt was a better basketball player than Jordan and who think Messier was a more valuable player than Gretzky. Maybe they're right ... but I'm sticking with the best facts as I interpret them.
It's fine if others disagree with me about Brady, but they better bring more than, "Yeah, but just put any great QB in that system and he wins at least 5 Super Bowls." Because that's only an opinion, too. Absolutely unprovable.
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Lol, Colts.
McDaniels doesn't get another chance after this, right?
This would be a pretty epic troll job if true.
https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/961045214399025152
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My wife and I have debated this often the last six months. We have been Democrats our entire lives, but she recently registered as an independent. She is what I would call a Blue Dog Democrat. We own guns, support gun rights, and she has strong feelings on the border. She's not one to build the wall, but she put an important question to me after this latest news.
If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver, would you be angry? My answer was yes.
If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver who was here illegally and deported two previous times, would you feel the same?
My answer was no. I would feel furious. That doesn't make her or I racist. It has nothing to do with Dreamers, whom we largely support. It comes down to incremental loss of life. This man would not have been killed by this man if our border security and policies were where they need to be. The argument that others are killed by drunk driving American citizens makes no difference because they are legally allowed to be in this country. It doesn't make those deaths any less tragic, but losing someone at the hands of someone that isn't allowed to be here and has already been deported multiple times is deeply troubling.
Thank you for hearing my opinion.
Would you be equally furious if a rich, white American man or woman with multiple drunk driving arrests - one who kept getting second and third and fourth chances because money tends to buy those extra chances - killed your child?
If yes, you might not be a racist. (But you might be.)
If no, you are definitely a racist.
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My wife and I have debated this often the last six months. We have been Democrats our entire lives, but she recently registered as an independent. She is what I would call a Blue Dog Democrat. We own guns, support gun rights, and she has strong feelings on the border. She's not one to build the wall, but she put an important question to me after this latest news.
If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver, would you be angry? My answer was yes.
If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver who was here illegally and deported two previous times, would you feel the same?
My answer was no. I would feel furious. That doesn't make her or I racist. It has nothing to do with Dreamers, whom we largely support. It comes down to incremental loss of life. This man would not have been killed by this man if our border security and policies were where they need to be. The argument that others are killed by drunk driving American citizens makes no difference because they are legally allowed to be in this country. It doesn't make those deaths any less tragic, but losing someone at the hands of someone that isn't allowed to be here and has already been deported multiple times is deeply troubling.
Thank you for hearing my opinion.
Interesting.
If my child was killed by a drunk driver, I think I would be so distraught at the loss that I couldn’t be “less upset” simply because the driver was here legally. My grief would be complete regardless of the driver’s status.
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Interesting.
If my child was killed by a drunk driver, I think I would be so distraught at the loss that I couldn’t be “less upset” simply because the driver was here legally. My grief would be complete regardless of the driver’s status.
That's because you aren't racist.
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Interesting.
If my child was killed by a drunk driver, I think I would be so distraught at the loss that I couldn’t be “less upset” simply because the driver was here legally. My grief would be complete regardless of the driver’s status.
Unfortunately, GM, you start out with the disadvantage of not being a racist.
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My child would be dead. My grief wouldn't give a flying fire truck about the ethnicity of the perpetrator. Did the dad who lunged at Nassar care about his melatonin or country of origin or did he want 5 minutes alone with a monster? It was a white kid going 90 and talking on a cellphone who crushed a fire chief on the scene of another accident on I-94 near Kalamazoo. Is his guilt or culpability different? Is the family's loss different because the driver was born here?
If I am reading your post correctly, if your child had been killed at the country music concert in Las Vegas, your grief would have been less because they had been killed by a middle aged white guy exercising his second amendment rights. Time for some self examination.
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I tell you one thing. I would not allow my dead child to be used as a political prop by those support xenophobic policies.
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My wife and I have debated this often the last six months. We have been Democrats our entire lives, but she recently registered as an independent. She is what I would call a Blue Dog Democrat. We own guns, support gun rights, and she has strong feelings on the border. She's not one to build the wall, but she put an important question to me after this latest news.
If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver, would you be angry? My answer was yes.
If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver who was here illegally and deported two previous times, would you feel the same?
My answer was no. I would feel furious. That doesn't make her or I racist. It has nothing to do with Dreamers, whom we largely support. It comes down to incremental loss of life. This man would not have been killed by this man if our border security and policies were where they need to be. The argument that others are killed by drunk driving American citizens makes no difference because they are legally allowed to be in this country. It doesn't make those deaths any less tragic, but losing someone at the hands of someone that isn't allowed to be here and has already been deported multiple times is deeply troubling.
Thank you for hearing my opinion.
With your move to Idaho you won't have to worry about those darn brown skinned people.
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http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/02/parents_of_crash_victim_ask_pr.html#incart_river_home
Or, you could react like this.
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I tell you one thing. I would not allow my dead child to be used as a political prop by those support xenophobic policies.
Did Edwin Jackson kneel during the national anthem? I honestly don't know and cannot find evidence that he did. But if he did, would that change the narrative? And, as this is being used as a political tool, has anyone mentioned the Uber driver who also died? Drunk driving is a scourge. These deaths are tragic. But IMO, it is more about the scourge of drunk driving than it is about immigration.
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If our child died at the hands of a drunk driver who was here illegally and deported two previous times, would you feel the same?
My answer was no.
I want to stay away from the hot taek elements of the OP and the replies, but I do want to jump on my soapbox for a moment (feel free to tl;dr from here on).
Putting ourselves in other's shoes is generally a good thing. It gives us empathy, and highlights the "so but for the grace of God go I" truths that are easy to ignore every day. But when we're talking about tragedy, there's a danger of forcing your mind and heart into the worst version of yourself, and then advocating policy on the basis of that version.
If Edwin Jackson were your child, you would feel and think things you previously thought monstrous and unimaginable. I'm willing to bet that even the parents in the link tower posted - both Mennonite ministers - had emotional reactions and thoughts that, in the opinion of their church, would condemn them to damnation if acted upon. That's human, and expected, and okay.
But that's also not a place from which to advocate for or against policies that affect millions of people. You see a similar argument with the death penalty. "Its easy to be against the death penalty, but what if your child were raped or murdered??" You don't have a moral imperative to advocate for policy based on this hypothetical, emotionally-destroyed version of yourself. In fact, its all of our responsibility to use the more calm, rational, versions of ourselves to come up with policy that we know is right and just, and that holds up against our universal inclinations to devolve into worse versions of ourselves in the face of tragedy.
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Had Goddell over today for some quality time. He was very nice in person.
Who is this Goddell you mentioned?
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I want to stay away from the hot taek elements of the OP and the replies, but I do want to jump on my soapbox for a moment (feel free to tl;dr from here on).
Putting ourselves in other's shoes is generally a good thing. It gives us empathy, and highlights the "so but for the grace of God go I" truths that are easy to ignore every day. But when we're talking about tragedy, there's a danger of forcing your mind and heart into the worst version of yourself, and then advocating policy on the basis of that version.
If Edwin Jackson were your child, you would feel and think things you previously thought monstrous and unimaginable. I'm willing to bet that even the parents in the link tower posted - both Mennonite ministers - had emotional reactions and thoughts that, in the opinion of their church, would condemn them to damnation if acted upon. That's human, and expected, and okay.
But that's also not a place from which to advocate for or against policies that affect millions of people. You see a similar argument with the death penalty. "Its easy to be against the death penalty, but what if your child were raped or murdered??" You don't have a moral imperative to advocate for policy based on this hypothetical, emotionally-destroyed version of yourself. In fact, its all of our responsibility to use the more calm, rational, versions of ourselves to come up with policy that we know is right and just, and that holds up against our universal inclinations to devolve into worse versions of ourselves in the face of tragedy.
This is reasonable. We all think we know how we will react to a situation ... until it happens to us.
This is borne out time and again from folks who rail against the evils of homosexuality - until their child comes out of the closet. Then they become beacons of tolerance, right Dick Cheney?
So yes, I allow that if my child were killed, I might react in ways I can't conceive of now.
But I do like to think I would react the way the heroic families of the 9 churchgoers who were killed by white supremacist Dylann Roof did.
Here's hoping none of us on this board ever have to find out how we would react.
Meanwhile ... how 'bout that NFL?
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This is reasonable. We all think we know how we will react to a situation ... until it happens to us.
This is borne out time and again from folks who rail against the evils of homosexuality - until their child comes out of the closet. Then they become beacons of tolerance, right Dick Cheney?
So yes, I allow that if my child were killed, I might react in ways I can't conceive of now.
But I do like to think I would react the way the heroic families of the 9 churchgoers who were killed by white supremacist Dylann Roof did.
Here's hoping none of us on this board ever have to find out how we would react.
Meanwhile ... how 'bout that NFL?
I read some interesting analysis of the McDaniels situation.
Who do people "blame"?
Some said it was McDaniels being a d-bag (he had already lined up a coaching staff). Some say it was the Patriots for (allegedly intentionally) screwing over the Colts. Some say it was the Colts for not being enticing enough for McD (or for not disclosing all the info on Luck's health).
Thoughts?
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I read some interesting analysis of the McDaniels situation.
Who do people "blame"?
Some said it was McDaniels being a d-bag (he had already lined up a coaching staff). Some say it was the Patriots for (allegedly intentionally) screwing over the Colts. Some say it was the Colts for not being enticing enough for McD (or for not disclosing all the info on Luck's health).
Thoughts?
I'm inclined to think its mostly McD backing out after the Pats sweetened the pot/had a discussion about succeeding Belichick. I'm not sure screwing over the Colts was a motivating factor for Kraft, but I'm sure he got a chuckle out of it and didn't feel bad about about not having the conversation before the SB. Between Luck's status and Irsay, the Colts job is as unappealing as any in the league right now.
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I read some interesting analysis of the McDaniels situation.
Who do people "blame"?
Some said it was McDaniels being a d-bag (he had already lined up a coaching staff). Some say it was the Patriots for (allegedly intentionally) screwing over the Colts. Some say it was the Colts for not being enticing enough for McD (or for not disclosing all the info on Luck's health).
Thoughts?
All of the above.
McDaniels showed he's still the petulant douche he was in Denver.
The Colts showed they're still the trash heap of an organization that landed a golden ticket (aka Andrew Luck) and pissed it away.
And the Pats showed that they're more than happy not to let bygones be bygones.
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I read some interesting analysis of the McDaniels situation.
Who do people "blame"?
Some said it was McDaniels being a d-bag (he had already lined up a coaching staff). Some say it was the Patriots for (allegedly intentionally) screwing over the Colts. Some say it was the Colts for not being enticing enough for McD (or for not disclosing all the info on Luck's health).
Thoughts?
My thought is that all is fair in love, war and the NFL.
Unless McDaniels signed a contract that bound him to Indy, he was free to back out once the Patriots said "no, we want you for this job when Hoodie leaves sooner than later."
Some folks won't like the way it went down, but that's life.
Of course, the ultimate "karma's a beyotch" could nail McDaniels when he gets the Pats job and Brady either quits or gets hurt. If Luck has a full recovery eventually (a big if), that could be the better job.
Everything is cyclical. Except for brief stretches under Parcells and Raymond Berry, the Patriots pretty much sucked for 4 decades before Belichick/Brady came along. They'll be gone soon enough. Suckage won't necessarily follow - but it probably will.
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If New England and Belichick let him know that the hoodie was leaving soon and that Josh was the heir apparent, it makes sense.
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Didn't the hoodie do something similar to the Jets?
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Didn't the hoodie do something similar to the Jets?
Yep. He was under contract as defensive coordinator at the time. (I believe as part of his contract, he was to be named the head coach had Parcells stepped down.) The Pats had to give the Jets a first round pick as compensation. They eventually used that pick to trade up to draft Shaun Ellis, who was a solid player for many years.
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If New England and Belichick let him know that the hoodie was leaving soon and that Josh was the heir apparent, it makes sense.
For his sake, they better have. No other team in the NFL will ever hire the d'bag again.
I would not be surprised if this was all planned ahead by NE. Josh was told he would get the job when the Head Cheater retires and it was one more chance to stick it to the Colts for Deflategate.
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For his sake, they better have. No other team in the NFL will ever hire the d'bag again.
Similar things were said about Belichick when he spurned the Jets, Dana Altman when he spurned Arkansas and Billy Donovan when he spurned Orlando.
Just like with those guys, a team will hire McDaniels if they believe he'll bring them wins. This won't matter a bit.
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Similar things were said about Belichick when he spurned the Jets, Dana Altman when he spurned Arkansas and Billy Donovan when he spurned Orlando.
Just like with those guys, a team will hire McDaniels if they believe he'll bring them wins. This won't matter a bit.
This.
Recruits were gonna shun Wojo after his treatment of Wally, too, remember?
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A real boss move by Kraft would be to hire someone other than McDaniels when Bellicheck retires, and tell McD "this is what happens when you even think about crossing enemy lines".
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A real boss move by Kraft would be to hire someone other than McDaniels when Bellicheck retires, and tell McD "this is what happens when you even think about crossing enemy lines".
Yea, if McDaniels didn't already leave and fail at a HC job and Bobby welcomed him back. Lets stop the adulation of Kraft as some Machiavellian gangster. He offered McDaniels to keep continuity with the organization and with a side benefit of screwing the Colts who hates.
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$90M guaranteed for Jimmy G!
The only person happier than him might be Kirk Cousins.
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And Aaron Rodgers. Reason why Aaron isn't in a huge rush.
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$90M guaranteed for Jimmy G!
The only person happier than him might be Kirk Cousins.
27.4 million a year. I mean Garafalo did a nice job winning five games, but that’s ridiculous. The money being thrown around sports has reached a pinnacle. Will Cousins now look at 30 million and above, he has to. If Redskins had tagged him, it would be 34 million a year. Jeez, Lebron makes 33 million a year.
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27.4 million a year. I mean Garafalo did a nice job winning five games, but that’s ridiculous. The money being thrown around sports has reached a pinnacle. Will Cousins now look at 30 million and above, he has to. If Redskins had tagged him, it would be 34 million a year. Jeez, Lebron makes 33 million a year.
People have literally been saying that for 30 years.
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Within a couple years, Stafford will look like a bargain.
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People have literally been saying that for 30 years.
Yeah, guess you’re right, but when they give that money to a QB who has started like 8 games, it’s on the verge of lunacy, and that’s just the NFL. NBA, MLB are just as bad. Hope they invest properly 💰💰💰💰
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Yeah, guess you’re right, but when they give that money to a QB who has started like 8 games, it’s on the verge of lunacy, and that’s just the NFL. NBA, MLB are just as bad. Hope they invest properly 💰💰💰💰
If Jimmy is the long-term answer as a franchise QB for the 49ers, it's 100% sane.
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I don't know what the real takeaway is, but its fascinating to compare and contrast NFL-MLB-NBA right now regarding salary cap structure, top-end contracts, and the relationship between the leagues and their respective players' unions. Given the money these sports make, its nearly impossible to both impose a salary cap and not artificially depress the biggest stars' paychecks. The NBA has gotten around this by just establishing a max deal, and it seems to have counterintuitively resulted in a pretty decent relationship between the league and the union. The NFL meanwhile, is seeing a greater % of teams payroll paid to the players that take the least physical punishment, which seems at some point to be untenable. And baseball is close to open rebellion as owners are afraid to hand out traditionally-gigantic deals as the new luxury tax takes effect.
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If Jimmy is the long-term answer as a franchise QB for the 49ers, it's 100% sane.
Like you said, “If”. Just read article on ESPN, said he has started seven games in the NFL, but “if”, he succeeds, it will be a bargain according to them.
Matt Ryan, Rogers next year, Cousins this year, and I believe Russell Wilson in two. All will get significant more than Garafalo.
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What can Foles command in an extension if traded?
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What can Foles command in an extension if traded?
Nothing. He is under contract for 4 more years I think.
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Nothing. He is under contract for 4 more years I think.
One more year.
His value will never be greater for the Eagles. Deal him now for a decent return (see what the Chefs got for Alex Smith?) or watch him walk next year and maybe get a compensatory pick.
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The money being thrown around sports has reached a pinnacle.
True story:
When I was a teenager in 1974, Catfish Hunter became a free agent due to a technicality and signed a 5-year, $3.75 million deal. A year later, Andy Messersmith became a free agent. It was a huge story, because until then players were stuck with a team for life due to the "reserve clause." He signed a 3-year, $1 million contract with Atlanta.
After Messersmith got his deal, I wrote an article for my high school newspaper declaring that salaries couldn't possibly get higher - although if they somehow did, it would make sports as we know them cease to exist.
Yes, I was an amazing prognosticator even back then!
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One more year.
His value will never be greater for the Eagles. Deal him now for a decent return (see what the Chefs got for Alex Smith?) or watch him walk next year and maybe get a compensatory pick.
He signed a five year deal last year. He has a one-time opt out after two years.
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I preach this every year, no position in sports has compensation outliers than QB. Every year it gets reset, and it shouldn't surprise anyone when a QB resets the market. It only matters when your deal is up, I've advocated Rodgers should only ever sign one year, maybe two year deals.
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True story:
When I was a teenager in 1974, Catfish Hunter became a free agent due to a technicality and signed a 5-year, $3.75 million deal. A year later, Andy Messersmith became a free agent. It was a huge story, because until then players were stuck with a team for life due to the "reserve clause." He signed a 3-year, $1 million contract with Atlanta.
After Messersmith got his deal, I wrote an article for my high school newspaper declaring that salaries couldn't possibly get higher - although if they somehow did, it would make sports as we know them cease to exist.
Yes, I was an amazing prognosticator even back then!
In defense of high-school you:
1) Nobody could have reasonably projected the escalation of television rights revenue and advertising revenue for major league sports teams. The salaries the Fish and Messersmith settled for seem quaint by today's standards.
2) At the time, baseball lost the Messersmith and McNally decisions because of a 1967 judicial ruling in which the reserve clause language was ruled that a one-year renewal could not be daisy-chained. Rick Barry got free agency that way. McNally was washed up by the time he challenged and won a reserve clause settlement and Messersmith was angry at Al Campanis and Walter O'Malley of the Dodgers for reasons never disclosed. Message: good lawyers and raw emotion are key drivers in sports.
3) We speculate that revenues could never go higher, but then they do. We have a terminal addiction to spectator sports in this country. It allows for Wisconsin to have built three new stadiums (Green Bay might as well be, plus Miller Park and Warrior Arena downtown) and for absurd amounts of dollars to be poured into sports infrastructure. I could go on about this forever, but suffice to say the revenues will go up as long as we buy endorsed products and the marketing gurus can demonstrate that purchase decisions because Louie Looney, star stud for the local professional team, told us to! How many of you took out a State Farm insurance policy because Aaron Rodgers and his dog endorsed it?
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In defense of high-school you:
1) Nobody could have reasonably projected the escalation of television rights revenue and advertising revenue for major league sports teams. The salaries the Fish and Messersmith settled for seem quaint by today's standards.
2) At the time, baseball lost the Messersmith and McNally decisions because of a 1967 judicial ruling in which the reserve clause language was ruled that a one-year renewal could not be daisy-chained. Rick Barry got free agency that way. McNally was washed up by the time he challenged and won a reserve clause settlement and Messersmith was angry at Al Campanis and Walter O'Malley of the Dodgers for reasons never disclosed. Message: good lawyers and raw emotion are key drivers in sports.
3) We speculate that revenues could never go higher, but then they do. We have a terminal addiction to spectator sports in this country. It allows for Wisconsin to have built three new stadiums (Green Bay might as well be, plus Miller Park and Warrior Arena downtown) and for absurd amounts of dollars to be poured into sports infrastructure. I could go on about this forever, but suffice to say the revenues will go up as long as we buy endorsed products and the marketing gurus can demonstrate that purchase decisions because Louie Looney, star stud for the local professional team, told us to! How many of you took out a State Farm insurance policy because Aaron Rodgers and his dog endorsed it?
I appreciate the defense, counselor! The retainer is in the mail. (Of course, it is the retainer I wore in 1974; still some vintage drool on it!)
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True story:
When I was a teenager in 1974, Catfish Hunter became a free agent due to a technicality and signed a 5-year, $3.75 million deal. A year later, Andy Messersmith became a free agent. It was a huge story, because until then players were stuck with a team for life due to the "reserve clause." He signed a 3-year, $1 million contract with Atlanta.
After Messersmith got his deal, I wrote an article for my high school newspaper declaring that salaries couldn't possibly get higher - although if they somehow did, it would make sports as we know them cease to exist.
Yes, I was an amazing prognosticator even back then!
Bye APPL, hey?
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I appreciate the defense, counselor! The retainer is in the mail. (Of course, it is the retainer I wore in 1974; still some vintage drool on it!)
Perhaps there is some valuable DNA that may be harvested from the drool for bioscience companies! Could make me millions LOL!!!!
Never thought that would be coming in 1974 either!
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True story:
When I was a teenager in 1974, Catfish Hunter became a free agent due to a technicality and signed a 5-year, $3.75 million deal. A year later, Andy Messersmith became a free agent. It was a huge story, because until then players were stuck with a team for life due to the "reserve clause." He signed a 3-year, $1 million contract with Atlanta.
After Messersmith got his deal, I wrote an article for my high school newspaper declaring that salaries couldn't possibly get higher - although if they somehow did, it would make sports as we know them cease to exist.
Yes, I was an amazing prognosticator even back then!
You should invest in Bitcoin right now :P
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True story:
When I was a teenager in 1974, Catfish Hunter became a free agent due to a technicality and signed a 5-year, $3.75 million deal. A year later, Andy Messersmith became a free agent. It was a huge story, because until then players were stuck with a team for life due to the "reserve clause." He signed a 3-year, $1 million contract with Atlanta.
After Messersmith got his deal, I wrote an article for my high school newspaper declaring that salaries couldn't possibly get higher - although if they somehow did, it would make sports as we know them cease to exist.
Yes, I was an amazing prognosticator even back then!
And yet, the MLB HOF still affords you a vote.
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And yet, the MLB HOF still affords you a vote.
I tried to cast a vote for Wayne Garland but I was told he was no longer Hall eligible.
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Looks like Jerry's palace coup continues to blow up in his face.
With the support of many N.F.L. owners, Commissioner Roger Goodell is prepared to escalate his public feud with Jerry Jones, the owner of the Dallas Cowboys and long one of the most influential people in the league, by fining him millions of dollars for his efforts to derail negotiations to renew Goodell’s contract and for his outspoken defense of a star player who was suspended, according to five league officials with direct knowledge of the situation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/26/sports/football/roger-goodell-jerry-jones-nfl.html
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I tried to cast a vote for Wayne Garland but I was told he was no longer Hall eligible.
You just loved it when he had the perm.
#HairJealously
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So much for the NFL hurting the pizza business.
https://twitter.com/austinkarp/status/968816800287875074?s=21
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Fitting since the NFL and Pizza Hut were both much better 20 years ago.
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Fitting since the NFL and Pizza Hut were both much better 20 years ago.
My POV is that my taste buds and taste in entertainment have significantly evolved in the last 20 years - those two products have probably minimally diminished during that time i.e. i'm not the target audience for either of them and both of us are happy about that.
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So the Browns used a 2nd last year on Kizer, and now a 3rd on Tyrod.
I don’t get it.
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Literally a second after my post, Kizer traded to Green Bay in a very interesting trade of recent high draft picks (Randall and Kizer) and pick swaps in 4th and 5th (which is probably of more value to GB).
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So the Browns used a 2nd last year on Kizer, and now a 3rd on Tyrod.
I don’t get it.
Don't forget the third they used on a QB in 2016 (Cody Kessler)
And they still could (should) use a 1st this year on a QB. Taylor, who has only one year left on his deal, looks very much like a stopgap.
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Literally a second after my post, Kizer traded to Green Bay in a very interesting trade of recent high draft picks (Randall and Kizer) and pick swaps in 4th and 5th (which is probably of more value to GB).
Interesting trade. Thought Randall had a bit more untapped potential, but I get it. When you take into consideration that we'd have spent a mid round pick on a QB, it makes sense. Plus, Kizer was someone we were rumored to be interested in last year. He'll at minimum be serviceable.
And Packers will have the first pick of day 3 again, which they seem to enjoy
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Hundley sucked ass. Plus Randall was said ta bee rancid in da lockeroom. I like da move assumin' dey cut tyes wit Hundley and Goodkoont has a free agent plan four the defensive backfield, hey?
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Hundley sucked ass. Plus Randall was said ta bee rancid in da lockeroom. I like da move assumin' dey cut tyes wit Hundley and Goodkoont has a free agent plan four the defensive backfield, hey?
Yep.
Won't be Richard Sherman. Signed with Niners.
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Allan Robinson is being reported to be signing with Da Bears. 3/$42
Case Keenum to Denver.
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Allan Robinson is being reported to be signing with Da Bears. 3/$42
Case Keenum to Denver.
Extremely happy about Robinson - wanted him since he got hurt last year. Definitely risky but has shown true #1 upside and the Bears obviously and desperately needed receiver help.
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Having your two top receivers coming off ACL injuries is a little concerning though.
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Having your two top receivers coming off ACL injuries is a little concerning though.
No doubt about it but they're both young so that allieves a little of my concern.
I'm also thrilled we didn't end up with Landry and I'm also hopefully this means no Ridley in the 1st. I do think they add one more WR somewhere.
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Extremely happy about Robinson - wanted him since he got hurt last year. Definitely risky but has shown true #1 upside and the Bears obviously and desperately needed receiver help.
I'd like to see them bring back Inman as well, assuming they can get him for a reasonable deal. Anything you can get out of White at this point is a bonus so hopefully they're not still counting on him to be a main contributor.
Robinson, Meredith, Inman and a young slot WR* wouldn't blow people away but they'd at least be a legit NFL receiving corp.
* - Albert Wilson was believed to be a top target due to his ties with Nagy but rumor is that he'll sign in Miami.
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Allan Robinson is being reported to be signing with Da Bears. 3/$42
Case Keenum to Denver.
Good deal for the Bears - would have loved to have him with GB, though probably not at that price. Tells me the Packers got a pretty good deal on Adams.
I'd actually really like the Packers to go after Meredith now, espec since he has the low tender.
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This is a real eat at Arby's moment for me. Robison is my favorite Penn State player since Daryl Clark, dude is just filthy good and super guy. Happy I'll get to see him play more but really really really hate him on the Bears. Now I'll only despise the Bears with 99.99% of my soul.
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I'd like to see them bring back Inman as well, assuming they can get him for a reasonable deal. Anything you can get out of White at this point is a bonus so hopefully they're not still counting on him to be a main contributor.
Robinson, Meredith, Inman and a young slot WR* wouldn't blow people away but they'd at least be a legit NFL receiving corp.
* - Albert Wilson was believed to be a top target due to his ties with Nagy but rumor is that he'll sign in Miami.
I'd definitely be happy with Inman back as well. I don't mind missing on Wilson if he's getting $8 million a year to play the slot. I'd be fine with Wright back in that spot, actually.
Sounds like they may add another weapon at TE.
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Bears making moves, agreement supposedly in place with Trey Burton. They're giving me hope which is not good. The only thing is it makes the Shaheen pick look like even more of a waste than it already was.
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Bears making moves, agreement supposedly in place with Trey Burton. They're giving me hope which is not good. The only thing is it makes the Shaheen pick look like even more of a waste than it already was.
Like the Burton addition a lot as well. Very versatile player. Sims will now be released to save cap $.
Too early to give up on Shaheen.
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Bears making moves, agreement supposedly in place with Trey Burton. They're giving me hope which is not good. The only thing is it makes the Shaheen pick look like even more of a waste than it already was.
Shaheen will be fine. Moving from Ashland to the NFL is a huge step up so you can't expect too much from him as a rookie. Besides, there's nothing wrong with having 2 quality TEs, especially with a young QB. The Bears tried to do it last season with Miller and Sims but Sims did nothing and Miller's knee exploded.
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Cousins to Vikes - 3/84 fully guaranteed.
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Cousins to Vikes - 3/84 fully guaranteed.
And somewhere, Aaron Rodgers smiles.
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#CONSENSUS
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Having your two top receivers coming off ACL injuries is a little concerning though.
I prefer AR off the ACL as opposed to Watkins and his constant state of disrepair.
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I think the Packers are going to have to give Rodgers all of Door County at this point.
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I think the Packers are going to have to give Rodgers all of Door County at this point.
Don't the citizens of Illinois hate him enough?
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Packers signing Graham. Going to save my scorn for when I see how much...
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Packers also releasing Jordy Nelson.
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Packers signing Graham. Going to save my scorn for when I see how much...
Scorn? Why???
TE is the weakest position on the team.
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Packers signing Graham. Going to save my scorn for when I see how much...
Hopefully he's the next Martellus Bennett up there.
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Scorn? Why???
TE is the weakest position on the team.
It is - the question is how much we paid and the fear that we shelled out a lot if Brate and Burton (the latter of whom I think could be worth the money he signed for) are raking it in. I am positive we can use him better than Seattle did, but he's exclusively a WR at this point. Zero ability as an in-line guy.
Edit: I realized based on Waldo's post that it seemed like Brate and Burton were still on the market. They signed for huge money.
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Packers also releasing Jordy Nelson.
About time. Dude has run like he has an anchor around his neck for the last two seasons.
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It is - the question is how much we paid and the fear that we shelled out a lot if Brate and Burton (the latter of whom I think could be worth it). I am positive we can use him better than Seattle did, but he's exclusively a WR at this point. Zero ability as an in-line guy.
I think the Bears already took Burton off the market
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I think the Bears already took Burton off the market
I think he meant he wanted to see Jimmy's price tag on the market.
But on that signing, when is the last time GB had a TE that was a featured target? Does MM know how to use a TE? Jimmy seems just like a nice redzone target at this point, jump balls/fades/etc. Doesn't have the quickness to get up the seam. But I'm probably wrong and he will catch 90 passes and 15 TDs next year.
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Bears now add Taylor Gabriel to play the slot. They've completely revamped the receiving corps today. Still work to be done on the O-line, CB, and edge rusher but this is an excellent start. Very happy thus far.
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Bears rumored to be signing Taylor Gabriel. That's quite the turn around with the receiving corps. Plus the added TE
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Would think bears are looking Oline, CB or edge rusher with first round pick. OG Nelson vs Ohio State or Iowa CB vs best 3-4 olb rusher available.
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Would think bears are looking Oline, CB or edge rusher with first round pick. OG Nelson vs Ohio State or Iowa CB vs best 3-4 olb rusher available.
Agreed. Tremaine Edmunds could be a wildcard based on his physical ability and age. I've read he might be more suited to play inside LB than edge rusher.
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Hopefully he's the next Martellus Bennett up there.
Packers are hoping he is the next Trey Burton :)
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I think he meant he wanted to see Jimmy's price tag on the market.
But on that signing, when is the last time GB had a TE that was a featured target? Does MM know how to use a TE? Jimmy seems just like a nice redzone target at this point, jump balls/fades/etc. Doesn't have the quickness to get up the seam. But I'm probably wrong and he will catch 90 passes and 15 TDs next year.
2016, once Cook got healthy.
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I think the Packers are going to have to give Rodgers all of Door County at this point.
As dey should. 160 four 4 years, all guaranteed. Danika probably lickin' her chops and udder thin's. Ain't chit witout him, aina?
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Bears rumored to be signing Taylor Gabriel. That's quite the turn around with the receiving corps. Plus the added TE
Imma go back to to my comment about hoping the Packers pursue Meredith. Little chance the Bears match anything now
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Imma go back to to my comment about hoping the Packers pursue Meredith. Little chance the Bears match anything now
I really hope the Bears can hold onto Meredith. Much rather have him as WR2 than White.
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Mo Wilkerson is a nice get.
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Imma go back to to my comment about hoping the Packers pursue Meredith. Little chance the Bears match anything now
Disagree. It would obviously depend on how much was offered but the Bears are unlikely to let him go, especially to a division rival.
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Disagree. It would obviously depend on how much was offered but the Bears are unlikely to let him go, especially to a division rival.
I'm guessing bears would match any reasonable offer - for his experience/talent/ability. Anything outrageous, they'd let him walk.
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I'm guessing bears would match any reasonable offer - for his experience/talent/ability. Anything outrageous, they'd let him walk.
And coming off injury.
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Mo Wilkerson is a nice get.
Generally been a Ted supporter, but this is the kind of move we've been missing. High upside prove it deals with vets. Petting got the best out of him once - he can go get that big payday again if he repeats.
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Decent Wilkerson signing, obviously if things go south quickly like they did in New York, the Pack can cut bait quick.
Interested to see the Graham terms.
Also curious if Allen Robinson passes his physical.
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Patricia wanted to build the Lions defense around linebackers. He went out and got two. Need a D-lineman with Ngata going to Philly. And a FA running back.
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Good moves by the Packers and Bears today, and of course the Vikings got a very good QB.
Not thrilled with my Panthers' day. They got a decent CB that they really needed, but they lost one of their best OL in Norwell and a darn good space-eating DT in Star Lotulelei.
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Thank you Vikings for paying Aaron Rodgers money for Andy Dalton results.
I like the Packers moves. Hopefully they didn't break the bank for Graham but Wilkerson deal is exactly what I hoped for.
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Don’t get the McKinnon signing by the Niners at all.
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Don’t get the McKinnon signing by the Niners at all.
They lost Carlos Hyde so signing a RB makes sense. Giving $30M to a guy who's averaged 3.6 ypc the last 2 seasons does not make sense.
Chase Daniel to be Trubisky's new back-up in Chicago. Bears also expected to make a run at Morgan Burnett.
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Don’t get the McKinnon signing by the Niners at all.
A lot of money, but I think Mckinnon could be a solid back with more touches.
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About time. Dude has run like he has an anchor around his neck for the last two seasons.
Hate saying goodbye to one of my favorite players ever but I think the 10+ million we are freeing up in cap space will help us address more important needs for the team. I hope BG uses it wisely.
He's 32 and entering the second half of his career so in order to keep him we'd have to pay more than he would be worth. WR is usually a strength for this team because of the Rodgers effect anyways.
Is Megatron taking any calls?
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They lost Carlos Hyde so signing a RB makes sense. Giving $30M to a guy who's averaged 3.6 ypc the last 2 seasons does not make sense.
Chase Daniel to be Trubisky's new back-up in Chicago. Bears also expected to make a run at Morgan Burnett.
I'm not sure how Burnett makes any sense for the Bears at the expected price point when they have Amos and Jackson and need help at edge/OLB.
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Bears sign a kicker yet?
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McKinnon is going to be the 4th highest paid RB for the 2018 League year, if he were a QB, that wouldn’t matter, but for him at the RB position? It’s absurd. I get the fit of McKinnon in that offense, I can’t figure out who they were bidding against.
Also, the Niners have the 9th pick and multiple 3rd rounders. This is a weird draft where Barkley may be the best prospect. I don’t advocate taking backs that early, but if they think Barkley is can’t miss, they have the capital to move up to get him. Alternatively, they could look at Michel, Chubb or someone in the 3rd. What I’m getting at is they could probably get similar production (or better) to McKinnon via the draft at a way better price.
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Bears sign a kicker yet?
guy from Miami, I think.
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Bears have a decision to make on Fuller.
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Bears have a decision to make on Fuller.
This will be interesting.
Also a bit bewildered why the Bears didn't release Sims.
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Bears have a decision to make on Fuller.
Bears will sign him.
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Bears will sign him.
Think this is likely but depends on how deal is structured.
Curious what Bears fans think - I've always thought very highly of him but also don't watch him every week.
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Think this is likely but depends on how deal is structured.
Curious what Bears fans think - I've always thought very highly of him but also don't watch him every week.
He's been very up and down and his dedication was questioned after the 2016 season.
That being said he was good last year and looked like a different player. Granted, it was a contract year. The talent is there but I still think there are questions moving forward given the lack of consistency.
I assume GB structured the contract to make things difficult on the Bears. The problem with the Bears not matching is there really aren't many, if any, comparable options available.
The Bears still have holes and some extensions to work on (Goldman) so I really don't get the decision on Sims when you have 3 other TEs under contract.
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According to Rapoport the Bears already matched. 4/56 with 18 guaranteed. Not sure why the Bears wouldn't take the full 5 days and tie up GBs cap space.
A bit more than I would have liked to see Fuller get overall.
Although now that I've done some more reading the guarantee is pretty low, which is really good for the Bears.
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Feels like a lose lose, then. Not many FA options left for the Packers to address unless they use some of their 12 picks to trade or draft high.
Would like to see them go after Tramon on a 1 year. He's been underrated since leaving
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Colts win that trade, I think. They don't need a QB. They still get a top 10 pick. They add 2 2nd round picks in this draft.
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Also a bit bewildered why the Bears didn't release Sims.
Trying to get something in return on a trade.
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Colts win that trade, I think. They don't need a QB. They still get a top 10 pick. They add 2 2nd round picks in this draft.
Totally. AND they get NYJ's second rounder next year, which has a very good chance to be at the top of the round again.
Hell, sitting at 6, Indy might be able to trade down AGAIN on draft day because there's a very good chance there's still a QB or two someone is anxious to move up to get.
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The Giants just shook up draft boards
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The Giants just shook up draft boards
Bradley Chubb spotted house-hunting in northern New Jersey. OK, not really but he should be.
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Would be interesting to see Browns take Chubb at 1, Barkley at 4, and get the qb later. But i know that's not gonna happen.
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I think Giants will now take Chubb (which kinda screws colts plans). But they could still take a QB, if they think it's a franchise QB. They could also now be looking to trade down and acquire assets to a rebuild.
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Johnny football must be all partied out or running out of money...he threw in front of 13 scouts and gave me a culpa interviews
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22873404/johnny-manziel-throws-san-diego-pro-day-13-nfl-teams-watch
only problem they had was,when the field workers came in to lay down the chalk lines, johnny was see face down right behind him🤣🤣
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Would be interesting to see Browns take Chubb at 1, Barkley at 4, and get the qb later. But i know that's not gonna happen.
+1. Or take Chubb at 1, then trade down bc teams know two of the QBs would still be available at 4. That's also due to my dislike of taking RBs in the first half of the first round.
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Johnny football must be all partied out or running out of money...he threw in front of 13 scouts and gave me a culpa interviews
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22873404/johnny-manziel-throws-san-diego-pro-day-13-nfl-teams-watch
only problem they had was,when the field workers came in to lay down the chalk lines, johnny was see face down right behind him🤣🤣
I give him credit for his candor about his mental health, his addiction, and whats seemingly been a sincere attempt to reform and get his life together the last year or so. I find it amusing that people think it was some ploy to get back into the NFL, as if admitted mental health problems and a history of addiction somehow makes NFL teams look past all his other off the field problems and welcome him back in.
I think he was probably a borderline NFL starting caliber QB to begin with, at the very least, he's at least put himself on a path towards a productive future as opposed to ending up dead or in jail by 30. I hope his message, along with what we've heard from Kevin Love and Derozan in the NBA, helps continue to change the dialogue around mental health in sports.
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I give him credit for his candor about his mental health, his addiction, and whats seemingly been a sincere attempt to reform and get his life together the last year or so. I find it amusing that people think it was some ploy to get back into the NFL, as if admitted mental health problems and a history of addiction somehow makes NFL teams look past all his other off the field problems and welcome him back in.
I think he was probably a borderline NFL starting caliber QB to begin with, at the very least, he's at least put himself on a path towards a productive future as opposed to ending up dead or in jail by 30. I hope his message, along with what we've heard from Kevin Love and Derozan in the NBA, helps continue to change the dialogue around mental health in sports.
good post wags-my initial comment was meant to be 1/2 tongue in cheek, but i do wish him all good with his recovery. without that, he has nothing. i hope he has surrounded himself with good people. there are sooo many temptations out there, especially in his world. i wouldn't worry about 30 as much as the next day. i never thought of his attempt to return to football was a ploy, rather a healthy attempt to help him get his life back on track and possibly to remove any regrets and/or some resentments. this can play an important part of his recovery. the NFL, rightly so, needs to be skeptical of his behavior. he would be one hell of an investment. johnny needs to prove to himself first that this is a wise endeavor and he is ready for it. everything else will follow