NM

[keefe]

Unfortunately you are too late to experience two of the finest watering holes to ever offer chilled beverages to slake the thirst of a parched community. The brick and mortar of the Lanche and Lenny's are gone...but the memories remain...

The Lanche was that worn plantation house fallen on hard times, glimpses of her former glory straining against faded chintz, the yellowed chandeliers from Paris no longer illuminating splendid gentlemen in gray, settled uncomfortably on the veranda for the next mint julep while rehashing that field and Pickett's failure and the agony of what might have been, as the rustle of hooped skirts reverberates through darkened hallways hinting at the salacious, but the only life is in the Spanish Moss draped capriciously on gnarled cypress.

Lenny's was the tar paper shack out on the Bayou, beyond the critical gaze of the censuring eye, where the gentility slithered off at dusk to join the unwashed indulging earthier hungers, the sharp twang of the blues resonates off tin, the sorrow and pity of those words adding depth, richness, and meaning to the bourbon, there is loss but few regrets and certainly no remorse, where a man's soul is darker than the waters outside with desires more venomous than the cotton mouth, a place where dreams swirl in a monotonous languor bereft of hope.

[keefe]

I've generally found people do good deeds for two reasons. It's either to help others or to help themself. The former tend to do their good deeds and leave it at that. The latter tend to do their good deeds and go on to brag about them and use them to feel superior to others.

Further, not every individual can combat every ill in the world. I think most people are best suited finding what they really care about changing and taking actions where they are capable, whether that's through financial contribution or direct action. You can't save the entire world and right all wrongs alone, but if we all do our part, hopefully we will eventually get there.

Kinda like posting a work promotion in both the alumni magazine then reposting it here???

[Benny B]

Kinda like posting a work promotion in both the alumni magazine then reposting it here???

A work promotion isn't exactly a "good deed."  So that's not self-promoting altruism, it's simply tooting your own horn.  And if you don't toot your own horn once in a while, no one else will.

[keefe]

keefe, unlike you, I prefer to keep my charitable and personal interests to myself.  Scoop doesn't need more pompous braggarts than it already has.

If that answer doesn't satisfy you...well tough sh*t.

Actually, you post a rather large volume of information about your personal interests.

The specific ask is since you are so egregiously outraged about statues and the glorification of a slave-holding society what is it you do to combat the institution of slavery which continues on to this very day?

You are comfortable expressing outrage about slavery. Since it continues on today what are you doing about it?

[keefe]

This is where in my opinion you go off the rails. 

It is well and good that you see and fight injustice elsewhere in the world.  I applaud you for it.  What is curious to me is that you seem to overlook, if not actively attempt to diminish, what the current public discourse is about.

It isn't about statues per se, though the white supremacists would like to frame the discussion that way.  It is about the message that those statues were intended to send when they were erected, and the same message the alt-right clings to today.  The message that blacks may have been freed, but they will still be lynched.  That they may be separate, but they will never be equal.  That the law may say they have the right to vote, but we'll do everything in our measure to prevent it.  That the white man is, and always will be superior.  They didn't raise statues to Forrest because he was such a fine cavalry commander.

Now the alt-right clings to that message, the message that blacks are 3/5th of a person, the message that the glorifying statues of Davis, Lee, and Jackson were intended to convey.  We have a President that pretends that white supremacists beating a black man with pipes and Nazis shouting about exterminating Jews are on the same moral footing as those that oppose them.

This isn't even about slavery, as that question was settled long ago.  You'd be hard pressed to find anyone that disagrees with your stance on slavery.

It's about racism.

You can enjoy Faulkner's prose, Lee's ability as a field General, and even promulgate the obviously incorrect idea that we'd be a British colony today if it weren't for South Carolina.  But to use these as excuses to poo-pooh and dismiss the rise of white nationalism, in large part experiencing a resurgence thanks in part to a President that condones it, as inconsequential is ignoble.

I would submit that of the Scoopers here I am one of the very few whose family was thrown into a concentration camp.

I love it when people lecture on racism.

But my point has nothing to do with slavery. It focuses on the right of the states to withdraw from the Union.

[keefe]

Except, the Articles were and are no longer in effect.  The Constitution completely supersedes the Articles.  There is nothing in the Constitution that permits secession as it explicitly states the United States is "a perpetual union."  The secession question is answered here:

"The Constitution does not directly mention secession.[55] The legality of secession was hotly debated in the 19th century, with Southerners often claiming and Northerners generally denying that states have a legal right to unilaterally secede.[56] The Supreme Court has consistently interpreted the Constitution to be an "indestructible" union.[55] There is no legal basis a state can point to for unilaterally seceding.[57] Many scholars hold that the Confederate secession was blatantly illegal. The Articles of Confederation explicitly state the Union is "perpetual"; the U.S. Constitution declares itself an even "more perfect union" than the Articles of Confederation.[58] Other scholars, while not necessarily disagreeing that the secession was illegal, point out that sovereignty is often de facto an "extralegal" question. Had the Confederacy won, any illegality of its actions under U.S. law would have been rendered irrelevant, just as the undisputed illegality of American rebellion under the British law of 1775 was rendered irrelevant. Thus, these scholars argue, the illegality of unilateral secession was not firmly de facto established until the Union won the Civil War; in this view, the legal question was resolved at Appomattox.[56][59]"

I can cite legal opinions to the opposite. That is precisely the point - at the Constitutional Convention the southern states did not accept all of the provisions and in fact considered themselves free and sovereign entities.

You need to do more research on what is a very complex issue. Fact is, the Constitutional Convention did not reverse the legal position of sovereignty.

It did broaden centralized powers for many things and, more specifically, addressed issues between small and large states.

But it did NOT eliminate the legal status of the southern states and sovereign entities. 

[keefe]

Sorry, Frenn's but you need to understand that Headband's citation was one opinion on a very complex matter.

Fact is, the South believed it had every right to remove itself from the Union. The North forced them back into it through overwhelming military force.

Headband's citation is anything but rebuttal.

[Spotcheck Billy]

NM

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I can cite legal opinions to the opposite.

Great, I'd love to read them.  Spirited debate is good and I look forward to chances to increase my knowledge base.

That is precisely the point - at the Constitutional Convention the southern states did not accept all of the provisions and in fact considered themselves free and sovereign entities.

Just because the South considered themselves so, doesn't make it so.  The Constitution is ratified in full, you cannot pick and choose which provisions you follow and which you do not.

You need to do more research on what is a very complex issue. Fact is, the Constitutional Convention did not reverse the legal position of sovereignty.

Gladly.

Supreme Court rulings[edit]
Texas v. White[58] was argued before the United States Supreme Court during the December 1868 term. Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase read the Court's decision, on April 15, 1869.[60] Australian Professors Peter Radan and Aleksandar Pavkovic write:

"   Chase, [Chief Justice], ruled in favor of Texas on the ground that the Confederate state government in Texas had no legal existence on the basis that the secession of Texas from the United States was illegal. The critical finding underpinning the ruling that Texas could not secede from the United States was that, following its admission to the United States in 1845, Texas had become part of "an indestructible Union, composed of indestructible states." In practical terms, this meant that Texas has never seceded from the United States.[61]   "
However, the Court's decision recognized some possibility of the divisibility "through revolution, or through consent of the States".[61][62]

In 1877, the Williams v. Bruffy[63] decision was rendered, pertaining to civil war debts. The Court wrote regarding acts establishing an independent government that "The validity of its acts, both against the parent state and the citizens or subjects thereof, depends entirely upon its ultimate success; if it fail to establish itself permanently, all such acts perish with it; if it succeed and become recognized, its acts from the commencement of its existence are upheld as those of an independent nation."[61][64]

So if the South would have won, they would have been successful in establishing a new government and thus there actions would have been "legal".

It did broaden centralized powers for many things and, more specifically, addressed issues between small and large states.

But it did NOT eliminate the legal status of the southern states and sovereign entities.

That is definitely one opinion.  Other opinions disagree.  Some even contest the Articles were more like an international pact and the US Constitution in 1790 is the real start of the Union.  So States lost their sovereignty when the constitution was ratified.  At the very least their sovereignty was placed 2nd to the country.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

And:

Another argument against secession centers on the language of Article I, Section 10, which declares that "No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation...." To proponents of this position, Article I, Section 10 unequivocally shows that the states which formed the Confederate States of America were in clear violation of the Constitution, thus invalidating their government and the individual acts of secession which led to it. Abraham Lincoln indirectly defended this position by declaring the seceding states were in "rebellion" and therefore still members of the Union. The Constitution, then, was still legally enforceable in those states, including Article I, Section 10.

[brewcity77]

Kinda like posting a work promotion in both the alumni magazine then reposting it here???

Nice false equivocation. The alumni magazine has a section specifically for that purpose, and I didn't start that thread about it on here.

[mu_hilltopper]

Ok, that was great.  Let's get back to Arbys.

This came in the mail today.

DO NOT PRINT THIS OUT AND USE IT.  Pretty sure it's a one time use thing, and I want all of those for dinner tonight. 

[mu_hilltopper]

I'd love to work in the Arby's product development team. 

Hey, how can we make this stuff better?

How about bacon?  And bourbon?   Let's try both.

[warriorchick]

I'd love to work in the Arby's product development team. 

Hey, how can we make this stuff better?

How about bacon?  And bourbon?   Let's try both.

I'd rather be in the marketing department and hang out with Ving Rhames as he is rehearsing his voiceovers.

[GooooMarquette]

Favorite espresso place in Milwaukee? Mine is Anodyne in Walker's Point.  Great espresso drinks and nice atmosphere....

[StillAWarrior]

I'd rather be in the marketing department and hang out with Ving Rhames as he is rehearsing his voiceovers.

I don't remember the last time I ate at Arby's, but their marketing department puts out some pretty funny ads.  "If you really want to eat a quarter pound of beef...that's cool...just eat half of one of these."  Beautiful.  Or, "Can we be honest about something here?  If you're getting a regular-sized sandwich for a dollar somewhere, you shouldn't be there.  Something's up with that sandwich."  Hilarious.

Granted, the ads aren't getting me in the door...but at least they're entertaining me.

[🏀]

I'd rather be in the marketing department and hang out with Ving Rhames as he is rehearsing his voiceovers.

'Hang out'

[warriorchick]

I don't remember the last time I ate at Arby's, but their marketing department puts out some pretty funny ads.  "If you really want to eat a quarter pound of beef...that's cool...just eat half of one of these."  Beautiful.  Or, "Can we be honest about something here?  If you're getting a regular-sized sandwich for a dollar somewhere, you shouldn't be there.  Something's up with that sandwich."  Hilarious.

Granted, the ads aren't getting me in the door...but at least they're entertaining me.

This one's my favorite:

https://www.youtube.com/v/W1iOXGuv9uI

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

Whatever happened to the Blue Canary?

[forgetful]

Favorite espresso place in Milwaukee? Mine is Anodyne in Walker's Point.  Great espresso drinks and nice atmosphere....

I prefer anyplace that sells turkish coffee.

[GooooMarquette]

I prefer anyplace that sells turkish coffee.

Ever been in a Turkish prison?

[naginiF]

Ever been in a Turkish prison?

You tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes!

[forgetful]

Ever been in a Turkish prison?

Not in the past couple years.  Turkish prison coffee though is subpar.  Kind of like prison wine.

[rocket surgeon]

Ever been in a Turkish prison?

ever seen a grown man naked?  do ya like movies about gladiators...?

[GooooMarquette]

Not in the past couple years.  Turkish prison coffee though is subpar.  Kind of like prison wine.

Only a matter of time before Starbucks sees this is an expansion opportunity....