Recruiting as of 3/15/24

[Osiris]

Don't mind me......just a little info for those interested.....for those who don't think he is good enough please ignore
Evan Daniels
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@EvanDaniels
 19m19 minutes ago
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Source: 2020 forward Coleman Hawkins (https://247sports.com/Player/Coleman-Hawkins-46055197/ …) is taking an official visit to Marquette today.

Keep up the good work Mark.  You are a beacon of light in the sea of $hi+ that is the recruiting thread.  Your updates are the principal reason I keep sifting through the nonsense that persists in this thread despite it being readily available in any number of other threads.

[Cheeks]

Gold

Only for a Fool.

[jsglow]

Cool.  That's pretty big news.  Got Hawkins on the p.1 chart immediately.

[tower912]

Keep up the good work Mark.  You are a beacon of light in the sea of $hi+ that is the recruiting thread.  Your updates are the principal reason I keep sifting through the nonsense that persists in this thread despite it being readily available in any number of other threads.

Amen.

[Loose Cannon]

Keep up the good work Mark.  You are a beacon of light in the sea of $hi+ that is the recruiting thread.  Your updates are the principal reason I keep sifting through the nonsense that persists in this thread despite it being readily available in any number of other threads.

Don't forget Ted B.

[MuMark]

Based on this article you might want to consider taking Lynn Greer off the list. I haven't read anything recently that we have been involved with or pursuing him.......

https://www.prepcircuit.com/news_article/show/1031332

[muguru]

Don't forget Ted B.

Everyone's getting credit, but I have posted PLENTY of tweets about MU recruits, two last night in fact, and I posted the Hawkins news today BEFORE mark and of course I get no credit.

[tower912]

Based on this article you might want to consider taking Lynn Greer off the list. I haven't read anything recently that we have been involved with or pursuing him.......

https://www.prepcircuit.com/news_article/show/1031332

Thank you, Mark, for keeping on topic.

[Jockey]

Keep up the good work Mark.  You are a beacon of light in the sea of $hi+ that is the recruiting thread.  Your updates are the principal reason I keep sifting through the nonsense that persists in this thread despite it being readily available in any number of other threads.

+1000

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Article next to it and jabir abdur rhahim or whatever his name is makes no mention of Marquette

[MuMark]

I appreciate the kind words. Ted and I are friends and he has followed MU recruiting even closer then I have over the years.

Guru did post the Hawkins news a few minutes before me ( I did not see his post at the time).

Credit where it is due......but really the complaints are when the thread is taken off topic......stop doing that and people will likely change the way they respond to your posts.

[muguru]

Another offer for Agbo:
"Thankful to have received an offer from Texas Tech!!"

I wanted to be sure to answer your question...this is my take on it, and not necessarily as it pertains to Ogbo, but MU's recruiting...They have what?? Probably 20-25 offers out. But let's say it's 15. You have 4 to give(doesn't mean you will fill them all right away in the early signing period), but MY preference would be that they narrow that down to their top 10 or so, and put HEAVY focus on them to start with...remember, you'd be talking 10 possibilities for 4 spots total. As that list dwindles, you move on to your next 5-10. To be honest, there really is no reason, if you focus in on who YOU(the Coaches) think are your top 10 gettable prospects, you shouldn't be able to get at least 2 of those to commit. That would be 20% of your top 10, and only 2 of your 4 scholarships.

Personally i would limit that to ONLY top 120(your first 10). Of course rankings don't tell the whole story, but I'd say typically speaking, the higher up the list you go, the LESS chance you have for a bust factor, the lower you go, the higher, though of course nothing is guaranteed.

Point being, as prospects dwindle, THEN I would start offering lower ranked kids...for the simple fact that, you can get those type of kids, or find them uncommitted at almost anytime in the process.

So let's use this hypothetical...you have the 20-25 offers out(as an example) 15 of them are top 120 kids, or, we can even stretch that to top 150..10 of them are to kids 200 or lower, who don't really have any high major offers except yours. What happens if say, 3 of them accept because you are their best offer, now you are down to one scholarship and all of a sudden 3 of your top 10 wanted to commit, and now you don't have the scholarships available, you can only take 1.

Yes, you NEVER stop recruiting obviously, but..until you are certain you will NOT be getting your true top targets, why make offers to kids like that?? That's not to say he couldn't turn out great, but if you were a betting man, who would be the better college player...Dawson Garcia, or Ogbo?? Jalen Suggs or Coleman Hawkins?? Again, there are no guarantees, but the smart money would be on Suggs and Garcia being the better college players, agreed??

That's why if one wanted to speculate, you COULD come to the conclusion that with these later offers they have been making, that they know or have a good idea they aren't getting their top targets. It could also mean nothing like that. But doesn't it at the very least give you a little pause??

Just my personal preference and thoughts

[muguru]

I appreciate the kind words. Ted and I are friends and he has followed MU recruiting even closer then I have over the years.

Guru did post the Hawkins news a few minutes before me ( I did not see his post at the time).

Credit where it is due......but really the complaints are when the thread is taken off topic......stop doing that and people will likely change the way they respond to your posts.

Fair enough Mark, but if you truly read my posts, they DO in some way shape or form relate to recruiting. Wojo/MU's recruiting yes, maybe not sometimes about specific prospects, but it's still recruiting related.

[TedBaxter]

The facts right now are that Justin Lewis has officially visited, Coleman Hawkins is officially visiting right now and Jalen Bridges has scheduled an official visit for August.  R.J. Davis and D.J. Steward have visited unofficially.  There may be others throughout the summer or fall.  Jamari Sibley and Gabe Madsen have probably visited the campus unofficially previously.  Nothing to get worked up about.

[tower912]

Thank you, Ted. 

[jesmu84]

I wanted to be sure to answer your question...this is my take on it, and not necessarily as it pertains to Ogbo, but MU's recruiting...They have what?? Probably 20-25 offers out. But let's say it's 15. You have 4 to give(doesn't mean you will fill them all right away in the early signing period), but MY preference would be that they narrow that down to their top 10 or so, and put HEAVY focus on them to start with...remember, you'd be talking 10 possibilities for 4 spots total. As that list dwindles, you move on to your next 5-10. To be honest, there really is no reason, if you focus in on who YOU(the Coaches) think are your top 10 gettable prospects, you shouldn't be able to get at least 2 of those to commit. That would be 20% of your top 10, and only 2 of your 4 scholarships.

Personally i would limit that to ONLY top 120(your first 10). Of course rankings don't tell the whole story, but I'd say typically speaking, the higher up the list you go, the LESS chance you have for a bust factor, the lower you go, the higher, though of course nothing is guaranteed.

Point being, as prospects dwindle, THEN I would start offering lower ranked kids...for the simple fact that, you can get those type of kids, or find them uncommitted at almost anytime in the process.

So let's use this hypothetical...you have the 20-25 offers out(as an example) 15 of them are top 120 kids, or, we can even stretch that to top 150..10 of them are to kids 200 or lower, who don't really have any high major offers except yours. What happens if say, 3 of them accept because you are their best offer, now you are down to one scholarship and all of a sudden 3 of your top 10 wanted to commit, and now you don't have the scholarships available, you can only take 1.

Yes, you NEVER stop recruiting obviously, but..until you are certain you will NOT be getting your true top targets, why make offers to kids like that?? That's not to say he couldn't turn out great, but if you were a betting man, who would be the better college player...Dawson Garcia, or Ogbo?? Jalen Suggs or Coleman Hawkins?? Again, there are no guarantees, but the smart money would be on Suggs and Garcia being the better college players, agreed??

That's why if one wanted to speculate, you COULD come to the conclusion that with these later offers they have been making, that they know or have a good idea they aren't getting their top targets. It could also mean nothing like that. But doesn't it at the very least give you a little pause??

Just my personal preference and thoughts

Nothing wrong with your preference or thoughts being your own.

That said, I feel like you don't understand college bball recruiting.

But you can have whatever thoughts you want.

[Cheeks]

I wanted to be sure to answer your question...this is my take on it, and not necessarily as it pertains to Ogbo, but MU's recruiting...They have what?? Probably 20-25 offers out. But let's say it's 15. You have 4 to give(doesn't mean you will fill them all right away in the early signing period), but MY preference would be that they narrow that down to their top 10 or so, and put HEAVY focus on them to start with...remember, you'd be talking 10 possibilities for 4 spots total. As that list dwindles, you move on to your next 5-10. To be honest, there really is no reason, if you focus in on who YOU(the Coaches) think are your top 10 gettable prospects, you shouldn't be able to get at least 2 of those to commit. That would be 20% of your top 10, and only 2 of your 4 scholarships.

Personally i would limit that to ONLY top 120(your first 10). Of course rankings don't tell the whole story, but I'd say typically speaking, the higher up the list you go, the LESS chance you have for a bust factor, the lower you go, the higher, though of course nothing is guaranteed.

Point being, as prospects dwindle, THEN I would start offering lower ranked kids...for the simple fact that, you can get those type of kids, or find them uncommitted at almost anytime in the process.

So let's use this hypothetical...you have the 20-25 offers out(as an example) 15 of them are top 120 kids, or, we can even stretch that to top 150..10 of them are to kids 200 or lower, who don't really have any high major offers except yours. What happens if say, 3 of them accept because you are their best offer, now you are down to one scholarship and all of a sudden 3 of your top 10 wanted to commit, and now you don't have the scholarships available, you can only take 1.

Yes, you NEVER stop recruiting obviously, but..until you are certain you will NOT be getting your true top targets, why make offers to kids like that?? That's not to say he couldn't turn out great, but if you were a betting man, who would be the better college player...Dawson Garcia, or Ogbo?? Jalen Suggs or Coleman Hawkins?? Again, there are no guarantees, but the smart money would be on Suggs and Garcia being the better college players, agreed??

That's why if one wanted to speculate, you COULD come to the conclusion that with these later offers they have been making, that they know or have a good idea they aren't getting their top targets. It could also mean nothing like that. But doesn't it at the very least give you a little pause??

Just my personal preference and thoughts

How much college basketball recruiting have you done in your career?  I get what you want in your laid out post, but it feels unattached with the reality of the world currently in my opinion.

I think the benefit of the doubt needs to go to the guys that do this for a living in terms of relationships, needs, who we have a legit chance with and fit / chemistry.  Just my opinion. 

[Loose Cannon]

Everyone's getting credit, but I have posted PLENTY of tweets about MU recruits, two last night in fact, and I posted the Hawkins news today BEFORE mark and of course I get no credit.

OK Credit for you also.  Thank you.

[muguru]

I will also add...and it's meaningless I guess in the grand scheme of things, but the star rating system for recruits is messed up. It's completely unbalanced. For example, if you look at Rivals 150, ONLY the top 25 recruits in the country are 5 stars. Then the gap for a 4 star is HUGE..It goes from 26 all the way down to 120. I think that's flawed. I mean think about it..the typical fan base hears their school has a 4 star recruit on campus. That IS exciting, or it should be...except, and again, there are NEVER any givens, but based simply on the recruiting system rankings a 4 star recruit could be the 26th ranked recruit or the 120th ranked recruit. One of those is not like the other. Let's be honest, there is a HUGE difference(in theory) between the 26th ranked recruit and the 120th ranked recruit. But not according to the recruiting rankings system, they are all the same.

To me it should be 1-50 are 5 stars, 51-100 are 4 stars, and 101 and below are 3 stars and below. Makes a lot more sense to me.

Ask yourself this, if you got a 4 star to commit, wouldn't you feel MUCH better about the 26th ranked kid working out, as opposed to the 120th ranked kid?? I sure would. And again, I cannot stress this enough, so there is no twisting of my words, or misunderstanding...there ARE no givens, no guarantees, sometimes kids are over ranked, and sometimes they are under ranked, but the point is, I would much rather take my chances with the kid ranked 26th, as opposed to 120th. Yet, both are 4 stars.

[Lennys Tap]

I wanted to be sure to answer your question...this is my take on it, and not necessarily as it pertains to Ogbo, but MU's recruiting...They have what?? Probably 20-25 offers out. But let's say it's 15. You have 4 to give(doesn't mean you will fill them all right away in the early signing period), but MY preference would be that they narrow that down to their top 10 or so, and put HEAVY focus on them to start with...remember, you'd be talking 10 possibilities for 4 spots total. As that list dwindles, you move on to your next 5-10. To be honest, there really is no reason, if you focus in on who YOU(the Coaches) think are your top 10 gettable prospects, you shouldn't be able to get at least 2 of those to commit. That would be 20% of your top 10, and only 2 of your 4 scholarships.

Personally i would limit that to ONLY top 120(your first 10). Of course rankings don't tell the whole story, but I'd say typically speaking, the higher up the list you go, the LESS chance you have for a bust factor, the lower you go, the higher, though of course nothing is guaranteed.

Point being, as prospects dwindle, THEN I would start offering lower ranked kids...for the simple fact that, you can get those type of kids, or find them uncommitted at almost anytime in the process.

So let's use this hypothetical...you have the 20-25 offers out(as an example) 15 of them are top 120 kids, or, we can even stretch that to top 150..10 of them are to kids 200 or lower, who don't really have any high major offers except yours. What happens if say, 3 of them accept because you are their best offer, now you are down to one scholarship and all of a sudden 3 of your top 10 wanted to commit, and now you don't have the scholarships available, you can only take 1.

Yes, you NEVER stop recruiting obviously, but..until you are certain you will NOT be getting your true top targets, why make offers to kids like that?? That's not to say he couldn't turn out great, but if you were a betting man, who would be the better college player...Dawson Garcia, or Ogbo?? Jalen Suggs or Coleman Hawkins?? Again, there are no guarantees, but the smart money would be on Suggs and Garcia being the better college players, agreed??

That's why if one wanted to speculate, you COULD come to the conclusion that with these later offers they have been making, that they know or have a good idea they aren't getting their top targets. It could also mean nothing like that. But doesn't it at the very least give you a little pause??

Just my personal preference and thoughts

Guru - that's why they have rsci rankings are published - adds color to the 1-5 star system.

I guess they could rate 500 guys and give #1 500 stars and #500 1 star, but...

[muguru]

Nothing wrong with your preference or thoughts being your own.

That said, I feel like you don't understand college bball recruiting.

But you can have whatever thoughts you want.

I understand it just fine, thank you. Watch how the blue bloods recruit, and just because you're a school that isn't a blue blood doesn't mean you can't follow the same principals. As someone stated earlier in this thread, look at all the offers they give out, some they are serious about, others not so much. They have priorities, an upper tier, a middle tier and a lower tier as far as preferences go. To me, that's the correct way to do it. You work down your list...and remember, these are kids, kids like the attention, they like being known you are after them hard, that you are a priority. To me, when you make so many offers, it HAS to take away some focus on your top priorities. I mean, you can't possibly go see them all every time.

Also, this strategy to me, whether it's MU, Indiana, Butler, Xavier, whoever smacks of a little desperation. Almost like "we'll throw 30 offers out there to kids we like, we need 4 commits, 4 of 30 HAVE to take them, right?? We don't care who, if we offered you, we like you enough". If your Marist, or South Dakota State or someone like that, by all means, that would be the best strategy for you, and I'd applaud it. Throws as much Sh*t against the wall and see what sticks.

Of course you are ALWAYS going to have/need kids on your roster that you will need to develop, and maybe they turn into something great. But..I think it's a VERY dangerous hill to live on if that's your recruiting strategy, to live on the lower ranked kids that fly under the radar. You will miss on a hell of a lot more you will hit on if that's your strategy.

I look at it like this, and I'm sure anyone here that's a salesman would have to agree..I'm not a salesman myself but I'm pretty sure when you are in sales(which is a lot like recruiting), you have accounts that you are trying to land that you'd prefer over others. Right?? Say you are going after the "Larson" account, that's your top priority...doesn't a vast majority of your attention get focused on that account FIRST before moving on to other accounts, and ONLY if you know you aren't getting the "Larson" account??

[jesmu84]

I understand it just fine, thank you. Watch how the blue bloods recruit, and just because you're a school that isn't a blue blood doesn't mean you can't follow the same principals. As someone stated earlier in this thread, look at all the offers they give out, some they are serious about, others not so much. They have priorities, an upper tier, a middle tier and a lower tier as far as preferences go. To me, that's the correct way to do it. You work down your list...and remember, these are kids, kids like the attention, they like being known you are after them hard, that you are a priority. To me, when you make so many offers, it HAS to take away some focus on your top priorities. I mean, you can't possibly go see them all every time.

Also, this strategy to me, whether it's MU, Indiana, Butler, Xavier, whoever smacks of a little desperation. Almost like "we'll throw 30 offers out there to kids we like, we need 4 commits, 4 of 30 HAVE to take them, right?? We don't care who, if we offered you, we like you enough". If your Marist, or South Dakota State or someone like that, by all means, that would be the best strategy for you, and I'd applaud it. Throws as much Sh*t against the wall and see what sticks.

Of course you are ALWAYS going to have/need kids on your roster that you will need to develop, and maybe they turn into something great. But..I think it's a VERY dangerous hill to live on if that's your recruiting strategy, to live on the lower ranked kids that fly under the radar. You will miss on a hell of a lot more you will hit on if that's your strategy.

I look at it like this, and I'm sure anyone here that's a salesman would have to agree..I'm not a salesman myself but I'm pretty sure when you are in sales(which is a lot like recruiting), you have accounts that you are trying to land that you'd prefer over others. Right?? Say you are going after the "Larson" account, that's your top priority...doesn't a vast majority of your attention get focused on that account FIRST before moving on to other accounts, and ONLY if you know you aren't getting the "Larson" account??

And what's your evidence that Marquette doesn't do this? Isn't it possible their upper tier recruits were offered a while ago (dainja, suggs, Burnett, etc) as well as some mid tier recruits. Now they're offering low tier recruits?

[muguru]

And what's your evidence that Marquette doesn't do this? Isn't it possible their upper tier recruits were offered a while ago (dainja, suggs, Burnett, etc) as well as some mid tier recruits. Now they're offering low tier recruits?

Yes, absolutely it probably was that way. Maybe you are misunderstanding what I'm saying..To simplify, why even bother offering your low tier recruits now?? You can get kids late all the time. I'm saying focus your attention(not just offering, but visiting, seeing them, in homes etc on campus visits etc) with your upper & Middle tier recruits now until you are eliminated. An example...let's say they have 20-25 offers out there (Not counting the lower tier recruits)  which is probably accurate. You have 4 open spots...so in other words, you have 25 chances to get 4 of them to commit...that's it..4(and maybe even less then that if you don't fill them all right away).

Honestly...if you can't hit 4 times out of 25 chances...there is something SERIOUSLY wrong IMO. So my point is..to me, you should NEVER get that far down your list for it to matter anyway...if it does..you have a big time problem. So why even bother offering?? I mean sure there's future implications, maybe offering a kid now gets you in the door for a future recruit..but you worry about that when the time comes.

The 2020 class is incredibly important, not only for it possibly determining the direction of the program the next few years, but for Wojo's job potentially. Does he really want to stake it on a few 200 ranked kids that he THINKS he can develop??

It's like Ted Thompson's "draft and develop" philosophy. It sounded great in theory and every once in awhile it worked, but more often then not it didn't and then the team was in trouble.

[MuMark]

Every year is different.......some years the quality of recruits will have more 5 stars and fewer 4 stars.....

You can't just say 1-25 is 5 star.....because sometimes the 22nd kid isn't good enough in the eyes of the evaluator to be a 5. Ditto with 4 stars......if the 4 stars go well into the 100s it means it's a deep class.......again in the eyes of the evaluators.

......in any given year their might not be a huge difference between 26 and 120......rankings change so much at the ages these kids are from year to year......even sometimes for very highly rated guys.......Evan Anderson is the perfect example.

Fans being excited about a visit is really of little importance........I get excited when a kid commits, gets to campus and starts playing well.......before that it's all just numbers on a board.

Like most of us....I've seen too many 4 star duds and plenty of non ranked studs to assume anything.

[We R Final Four]

The facts right now are that Justin Lewis has officially visited, Coleman Hawkins is officially visiting right now and Jalen Bridges has scheduled an official visit for August.  R.J. Davis and D.J. Steward have visited unofficially.  There may be others throughout the summer or fall.  Jamari Sibley and Gabe Madsen have probably visited the campus unofficially previously.  Nothing to get worked up about.

Thanks to Guru for this synopsis—-indirectly of course he deserves the credit.