alleged sexual assault investigation of 4 on 1 by public saftey

[Lennys Tap]

As a father of a daughter....don't think this is cool at all.

No offense, and I mean that, but what does having a daughter have to do with it? I have two daughters, but I found the mere thought of rape or sexual assault abhorrent long before any of my children were born. On "sexual harrassment" I'm not so clear. I thought it dealt with establishing a hostile work involvement by a superior towards an underling. I guess I just don't get how it fits between students on a college campus.

[MUfan12]

On "sexual harrassment" I'm not so clear. I thought it dealt with establishing a hostile work involvement by a superior towards an underling. I guess I just don't get how it fits between students on a college campus.

Who knew four "That's What She Said" jokes could cause such a stir...

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Was the horse male or female?

http://www.wisn.com/irresistible/27265114/detail.html

were you in myrtle for golfin with Brucie or are you livin down there part time now?

[Hamostradamus]

http://www.wisn.com/irresistible/27265114/detail.html

What does Derrick Wendler think of this story? What's the "word on campus"?

[ChicosBailBonds]

My gut feeling on this is that it ends up going nowhere...classic he said she said.  The timing sucks and it's never good to have MU and especially the athletic department in the news like this. 

The news like this as a top story (see video) is never good for the university. I'd hate to be in the PR office for MU this week.

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/118783409.html?video=pop&t=a&bctid=CLIP_ID_1378218

http://www.wisn.com/r/27345574/detail.html


Of course that doesn't make anyone guilty, but rather accused...big difference.  I feel bad for the 4 student athletes if this ends up being nothing.  I also feel for the alledged victim who clearly feels something happened.

Sounds like they have been found in violation of the Harassment code of conduct but not Sexual Assault.

I'm sure much more to come on this.

[Lennys Tap]

  Stuff happens every night in college and certainly athletes are doing better than the future psychologist options trader.

And much, much better than vertically challenged future Direct TV salesmen.

[ChicosBailBonds]

And much, much better than vertically challenged future Direct TV salesmen.

Probably, though the guys I've seen in Sales do ok...they tend to have the gift of gab and like to party.  DIRECT TV...I wonder what company that is. Maybe you just mangled the spelling.  

Meanwhile, doing just fine with my California bride.     It was always good to be one of the few Californians on the MU campus as well....

[ChicosBailBonds]

No offense, and I mean that, but what does having a daughter have to do with it? I have two daughters, but I found the mere thought of rape or sexual assault abhorrent long before any of my children were born. On "sexual harrassment" I'm not so clear. I thought it dealt with establishing a hostile work involvement by a superior towards an underling. I guess I just don't get how it fits between students on a college campus.

I found it abhorrent as well, but I can tell you most people I know that have just boys vs those that have at least one daughter seem to view things a little differently.  That idea of "boys will be boys" and the cynicism of the girl not being on the up and up is often present.

Interestingly enough, my wife talked about this tonight.  Her very first comment...."was the girl motivated to get these guys busted...what was her angle...I knew some girls in college that would totally screw over guys".  She immediately went to the defense of the guys.  So we all view things differently Lenny, but I do believe that someone with a daughter views things differently (at times) than someone with only sons or no kids at all.

How many times have you heard someone make a comment about kids or raising kids when they have no kids of their own at all...they simply do not have the same relative experience.

[babytownfrolics]

If you feel so bad about the negative publicity, why did you go out of your way to narrow down the accused?

My gut feeling on this is that it ends up going nowhere...classic he said she said.  The timing sucks and it's never good to have MU and especially the athletic department in the news like this. 

The news like this as a top story (see video) is never good for the university. I'd hate to be in the PR office for MU this week.

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/118783409.html?video=pop&t=a&bctid=CLIP_ID_1378218

http://www.wisn.com/r/27345574/detail.html


Of course that doesn't make anyone guilty, but rather accused...big difference.  I feel bad for the 4 student athletes if this ends up being nothing.  I also feel for the alledged victim who clearly feels something happened.

Sounds like they have been found in violation of the Harassment code of conduct but not Sexual Assault.

I'm sure much more to come on this.

[foreverwarriors]

I'd hate to be in the PR office for MU this week

Honestly...it's never a good time to be in the MU PR department the past few years

the Gold
AS dept chair
Domestic Partner benefits
Athletics Sexual assault/harassment

God bless those who have worked there the past few years...

[ChicosBailBonds]

If you feel so bad about the negative publicity, why did you go out of your way to narrow down the accused?

Fair point.  I thought the news did that for us already, but fair point.  That's why I haven't named names and pulled back on getting too detailed on descriptions.  Probably the prudent thing to do.

Let's not forget, it's one thing to be named in an incident report and quite another to have actually done anything.  Nevertheless, some names on the incident report that we all wish weren't.

[TallTitan34]

If this was brought to the police on Tuesday do you think this affected the teams play against UNC?

[willie warrior]

Still all sounds like vague speculative rumor mongering with no facts. Typical for this board. My friends uncle's cousin says this is all a crock.

[KenoshaWarrior]

http://www.wisn.com/news/27345574/detail.html

"That just goes to show that there's a double standard being held," sophomore Derrick Wendler said.

Wendler said the police investigation has been the talk on campus over the past week.

"If I did something like that, I would expect to be punished for it, just like they should be punished for it," Wendler said.



Did they really just randomly ask a student about rumors on campus, and then put his quotes in the story?

Derrick is right... Their is a double standard.   If a normal student sexually harrassed some female they wouldnt have their names dragged through the mud for all the world to here or see.

[goldeneagles09]

As someone that works in Student Affairs let me clarify the student judicial process. While I don't know all the specific procedures at Marquette, most schools operate under a "more likely than not" scenario that a student violated a policy. That along with the basis that most student conduct philosophies are educational makes it more likely that a hearing officer will find someone responsible and have them learn from it even if they were not fully responsible for the violation.

If I were hearing a case similar to this (not necessarily these specific athletes, just students in general) it would have to be pretty evident that they were not involved to not find them responsible/give them sanctions. If they were merely present and being a bystander to the events I would probably find them responsible for the lower level harassment and not necessarily the assault. If I found them to be more actively involved there would definitely be the potential for increased sanctions/responsibility for assault. The fact that they were not found responsible of sexual assault leads me to believe they were in the wrong, but definitely weren't living up to MU's Code of Conduct.

This of course is under the premise that there was no preferential treatment and no facts were hidden during the process. I'm not a long-time practicing student affairs professional but I know enough about the process to explain it on an online forum such as this.

[GGGG]

goldeneagles09...thank you for that.  Obviously everyone involved made poor choices and should be reprimanded for those choices.

The question I have is, what are an institution's reponsibilities when it comes to contacting the actual police about accusations this severe?  Can they?  Should they?  Does it have to rise to a certain level before this occurs?

[jficke13]

goldeneagles09...thank you for that.  Obviously everyone involved made poor choices and should be reprimanded for those choices.

The question I have is, what are an institution's reponsibilities when it comes to contacting the actual police about accusations this severe?  Can they?  Should they?  Does it have to rise to a certain level before this occurs?

The first report I read stated that in this particular type of case, the decision of whether to go to MPD lies with the victim alone. This contrasts with when DPS finds weed in a dorm room (auto-contact MPD). I think the sensitive nature of the offense as it concerns the victim is what puts the ball in the victim's court.

[GGGG]

lawwarrior, hypothetically, what if the rape was clearly more brutal?  And the victim for whatever reason still didn't want to go forward.  MU would still need to contact the police if there were evidence of a crime right?  That line needs to be drawn somewhere I'm thinking.

But I guess in this case, there was no physical evidence that a crime was committed.

[reinko]

The first report I read stated that in this particular type of case, the decision of whether to go to MPD lies with the victim alone. This contrasts with when DPS finds weed in a dorm room (auto-contact MPD). I think the sensitive nature of the offense as it concerns the victim is what puts the ball in the victim's court.

And seeing and recognizing drugs likely falls into the category of giving DPS that duty to call MPD.  Much like if they witnessed an assault of any kind.

[MUMac]

The first report I read stated that in this particular type of case, the decision of whether to go to MPD lies with the victim alone. This contrasts with when DPS finds weed in a dorm room (auto-contact MPD). I think the sensitive nature of the offense as it concerns the victim is what puts the ball in the victim's court.

Though not a lawyer myself, that is the way I had been interpretting it.  If MU goes to the police with information they cannot prove and the victim does not want to go to the police themselves, it could place the victim in a difficult position.  MU investigated and did not feel it warranted an assualt - if the victim did not want to pursue it with the police, how could they?

I will not speculate that MU handled it poorly.  No reason to do so at this time.  If it comes out after the fact, they will deserve all the condemnation that comes their way.  But, if we are to presume innocence until proven guilty of the individuals, who do not some allow the University the same?

[jficke13]

lawwarrior, hypothetically, what if the rape was clearly more brutal?  And the victim for whatever reason still didn't want to go forward.  MU would still need to contact the police if there were evidence of a crime right?  That line needs to be drawn somewhere I'm thinking.

But I guess in this case, there was no physical evidence that a crime was committed.

You would think there's a line, but the way the jsonline writer quoted MU sure made it sound like in sexual assault cases, the decision to go to MPD was the victim's.

[Warriorz]

As someone that works in Student Affairs let me clarify the student judicial process. While I don't know all the specific procedures at Marquette, most schools operate under a "more likely than not" scenario that a student violated a policy. That along with the basis that most student conduct philosophies are educational makes it more likely that a hearing officer will find someone responsible and have them learn from it even if they were not fully responsible for the violation.

If I were hearing a case similar to this (not necessarily these specific athletes, just students in general) it would have to be pretty evident that they were not involved to not find them responsible/give them sanctions. If they were merely present and being a bystander to the events I would probably find them responsible for the lower level harassment and not necessarily the assault. If I found them to be more actively involved there would definitely be the potential for increased sanctions/responsibility for assault. The fact that they were not found responsible of sexual assault leads me to believe they were in the wrong, but definitely weren't living up to MU's Code of Conduct.

This of course is under the premise that there was no preferential treatment and no facts were hidden during the process. I'm not a long-time practicing student affairs professional but I know enough about the process to explain it on an online forum such as this.

Are students typically represented by attorneys when appearing before MU's judicial process?  If so, are they represented at the university's expense?  Has Atty. Boyle represented students in these proceedings in the past?

An additional issue I find concerning here is that of Atty. Boyle being a booster and possibly offering his services as an improper benefit...  My understanding of the bylaws is that unless he charged his usual rate (at least $300/hour) or offers these services at the same reduced rate to other MU students, this is a violation.  Considering the university involvement, possibly a substantial one.  

[jficke13]

Sexual assault cases are notoriously difficult to prove. If DPS didn't have any evidence (didn't witness it themselves, didn't have a bunch of other witnesses) and it was a he-said-she-said, then it seems reasonable to leave the decision to proceed in the hands of the victim while lending support to that person. That respects the potential that the victim not want to proceed (which happens a fair amount for one reason or another) and also respects the possibility of a Duke LAX scenario and doesn't preemptively toss the accused under the bus.

Reinko's point is well taken too. If someone just reports an assault to DPS they may not have an actual duty to report it. So then they have the leeway to adopt a policy like they have.

[Litehouse]

Who said Boyle represented the students in the internal MU proceedings?  Someone commented that Boyle was working with them, but I assumed that was for the potential criminal investigation, not the internal MU investigation.  I could be wrong, but I don't want to read more into this than is actually out there.

[MUMac]

Who said Boyle represented the students in the internal MU proceedings?  Someone commented that Boyle was working with them, but I assumed that was for the potential criminal investigation, not the internal MU investigation.  I could be wrong, but I don't want to read more into this than is actually out there.

I would assume your assumption to be correct.  Now that it is a potential legal matter, an attorney would be involved.  Prior to that, not necessary