MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 24, 2021, 08:03:11 AM

Title: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 24, 2021, 08:03:11 AM
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2021/06/23/ncaa-name-image-and-likeness-policy/5329548001/

Gotta love this.  The NCAA has been fighting this uphill battle for YEARS, and has been studying and looking at developing a policy for MONTHS, yet could not come up with anything, so now it looks as though they are just going to lift all rules and leave it up to the schools.

Run by idiots.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 24, 2021, 08:03:52 AM
Oh and labelling this as a "temporary solution" is cute.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Hards_Alumni on June 24, 2021, 08:17:56 AM
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2021/06/23/ncaa-name-image-and-likeness-policy/5329548001/

Gotta love this.  The NCAA has been fighting this uphill battle for YEARS, and has been studying and looking at developing a policy for MONTHS, yet could not come up with anything, so now it looks as though they are just going to lift all rules and leave it up to the schools.

Run by idiots.

IMO they're willingly taking a back seat here and waiting to see how it works with a patchwork approach... with the hope that it is grossly unequal so they can swoop in say 'I told you this was a bad idea'.  And if it goes well they'll say 'it was time'.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 24, 2021, 08:22:12 AM
Coach compensation not being equal = Not a problem
TV contracts not being equal = What can you do?
Player NIL payments not being equal = WE HAVE TO FIX THIS!!!
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 24, 2021, 08:44:38 AM
Coach compensation not being equal = Not a problem
TV contracts not being equal = What can you do?
Player NIL payments not being equal = WE HAVE TO FIX THIS!!!

It’s hard to believe people still carry water for the NCAA.  Baffling, really
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: muwarrior69 on June 24, 2021, 09:12:57 AM
I guess will see how this affects team cohesiveness. One player is getting x dollars for his NIL, another player is only getting .5x for his NIL, all the other players are not making anything on their NIL and decide to transfer immediately because they can make something off their NIL elsewhere. Team forfeits season because they have only two players.

Will FOX/ESPN have to pay players royalties when they use their image to promote a game? Will other players feel short changed because of a lack of exposure? Will this only exacerbate the Hausers vs Howard feud dynamic?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 24, 2021, 09:28:15 AM
I guess will see how this affects team cohesiveness. One player is getting x dollars for his NIL, another player is only getting .5x for his NIL, all the other players are not making anything on their NIL and decide to transfer immediately because they can make something off their NIL elsewhere. Team forfeits season because they have only two players.

Will FOX/ESPN have to pay players royalties when they use their image to promote a game? Will other players feel short changed because of a lack of exposure? Will this only exacerbate the Hausers vs Howard feud dynamic?

In what athletic setting are all players paid the same?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: The Lens on June 24, 2021, 09:43:03 AM
I guess will see how this affects team cohesiveness. One player is getting x dollars for his NIL, another player is only getting .5x for his NIL, all the other players are not making anything on their NIL and decide to transfer immediately because they can make something off their NIL elsewhere. Team forfeits season because they have only two players.

Will FOX/ESPN have to pay players royalties when they use their image to promote a game? Will other players feel short changed because of a lack of exposure? Will this only exacerbate the Hausers vs Howard feud dynamic?

LOI's will include language that permits the Universities and their partners to use players NIL in prescribed capacities.  MLB, NFL, NBA & NHL have been doing this since their inception.  It's boilerplate.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: TAMU Eagle on June 24, 2021, 09:50:56 AM
I guess will see how this affects team cohesiveness. One player is getting x dollars for his NIL, another player is only getting .5x for his NIL, all the other players are not making anything on their NIL and decide to transfer immediately because they can make something off their NIL elsewhere. Team forfeits season because they have only two players.

Will FOX/ESPN have to pay players royalties when they use their image to promote a game? Will other players feel short changed because of a lack of exposure? Will this only exacerbate the Hausers vs Howard feud dynamic?

Do you have these same concerns for professional athletes? Cause Aaron Rodgers makes a lot more on his NIL then Billy Turner does.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: muwarrior69 on June 24, 2021, 10:11:29 AM
Do you have these same concerns for professional athletes? Cause Aaron Rodgers makes a lot more on his NIL then Billy Turner does.

LOL, the lowest paid NFL player make more in one year than the median family makes in 8 years. So no; and most college football or basketball players will make nothing from their NIL and everyone knows NFL players don't play for nothing.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: TAMU Eagle on June 24, 2021, 10:16:10 AM
LOL, the lowest paid NFL player make more in one year than the median family makes in 8 years. So no; and most college football or basketball players will make nothing from their NIL and everyone knows NFL players don't play for nothing.

So only college players get jealous of their teammates making more than they do? Professional athletes don't get jealous when their teammates are making more than them? Professionals don't leave one team because they can make more with another team? Professionals don't feel shortchanged because of a lack of exposure compared to their teammates?

Personally I think some, probably most of them do...but they still somehow seem to put cohesive teams on the floor every night.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 24, 2021, 10:54:07 AM
So only college players get jealous of their teammates making more than they do? Professional athletes don't get jealous when their teammates are making more than them? Professionals don't leave one team because they can make more with another team? Professionals don't feel shortchanged because of a lack of exposure compared to their teammates?

Personally I think some, probably most of them do...but they still somehow seem to put cohesive teams on the floor every night.

Of course there will be jealousy.  It’s human nature.  Teammates are often jealous of others for a variety of reasons.  It’s why there are coaches.  It’s a weak argument from the Pollyanna crowd
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: brewcity77 on June 24, 2021, 12:11:30 PM
This is where an enterprising donor calling the Garcia family and promising an advertising deal that exceeds the G League minimum would be a savvy move.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Jockey on June 24, 2021, 12:20:53 PM
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2021/06/23/ncaa-name-image-and-likeness-policy/5329548001/

Gotta love this.  The NCAA has been fighting this uphill battle for YEARS, and has been studying and looking at developing a policy for MONTHS, yet could not come up with anything, so now it looks as though they are just going to lift all rules and leave it up to the schools.

Run by idiots.

Emmert = Rob Manfred.  :)
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: muwarrior69 on June 24, 2021, 03:06:46 PM
So only college players get jealous of their teammates making more than they do? Professional athletes don't get jealous when their teammates are making more than them? Professionals don't leave one team because they can make more with another team? Professionals don't feel shortchanged because of a lack of exposure compared to their teammates?

Personally I think some, probably most of them do...but they still somehow seem to put cohesive teams on the floor every night.

...because the guys that get minutes are all paid very well. As many of you say it may all work out for the college players. We will just have to wait and see. I just have my doubts this will end well.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: TAMU Eagle on June 24, 2021, 03:16:49 PM
...because the guys that get minutes are all paid very well. As many of you say it may all work out for the college players. We will just have to wait and see. I just have my doubts this will end well.

I didn't know that once you reach a certain pay threshold, jealousy goes away. Someone should tell Gordon Gecko.

But you seem to be saying that college players aren't paid well. So do you think that should be remedied?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: GOO on June 24, 2021, 03:45:25 PM
I may become an even bigger fan of the Ivy League. One of the few that haven't sold their souls.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 24, 2021, 04:17:11 PM
I may become an even bigger fan of the Ivy League. One of the few that haven't sold their souls.


What do you mean by "sold their souls?" 
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 24, 2021, 04:17:41 PM
I may become an even bigger fan of the Ivy League. One of the few that haven't sold their souls.

Marquette sold their soul decades ago.  What’s the hold up?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: WhiteTrash on June 24, 2021, 04:18:17 PM
I get that the NCAA is not perfect but they truly do a great job with like 95% of the students they oversee. These 'fly by' critics who label the NCAA 'the worst organization ever' are clueless about what it does. It is lazy to only talk about men's Big East basketball players and SEC football players. Nobody discusses the women's swim team at Southern Illinois or the like.

Also, it is good to remember that the NCAA is not an independent organization, it is the group of universities who choose to join like Marquette. The angst should be focused on the universities not the NCAA. 
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 24, 2021, 04:21:48 PM
I get that the NCAA is not perfect but they truly do a great job with like 95% of the students they oversee. These 'fly by' critics who label the NCAA 'the worst organization ever' are clueless about what it does. It is lazy to only talk about men's Big East basketball players and SEC football players. Nobody discusses the women's swim team at Southern Illinois or the like.

Also, it is good to remember that the NCAA is not an independent organization, it is the group of universities who choose to join like Marquette. The angst should be focused on the universities not the NCAA. 


It's not the worst organization ever, and it has been starved by its members, but the organization and its members never seemed to see the writing on the wall and have come up with a solution that's not much of a solution.  It has handed this issue incompetently, expecting Congress and the courts to save them instead of reading the room and figuring out that was never going to happen because amateurism is an outdated concept that people don't care about.  Poor leadership all around.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 24, 2021, 04:23:39 PM
I get that the NCAA is not perfect but they truly do a great job with like 95% of the students they oversee. These 'fly by' critics who label the NCAA 'the worst organization ever' are clueless about what it does. It is lazy to only talk about men's Big East basketball players and SEC football players. Nobody discusses the women's swim team at Southern Illinois or the like.

Also, it is good to remember that the NCAA is not an independent organization, it is the group of universities who choose to join like Marquette. The angst should be focused on the universities not the NCAA.

Members of the women’s swim at Southern Illinois can now earn money off their name, image and likeness that the NCAA and their member institutes prohibited for decades.  This isn’t just about Big East basketball and SEC football.  Universities sign off on what the NCAA does.  It’s all the same
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: TAMU Eagle on June 24, 2021, 04:24:16 PM
Nobody discusses the women's swim team at Southern Illinois or the like.

I'll go on record as saying that they don't do a good job with the women's swim team at Southern Illinois on the NIL issue either.

The NCAA does many things well. They have bungled NIL from the beginning. And when I say NCAA, I mean the organization and the member schools that make up the organization.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on June 24, 2021, 04:34:52 PM
Not much of a difference in the NCAA handling new issues vs. how the NFL approaches things.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: MarquetteDano on June 24, 2021, 04:47:48 PM
Going to be funny when a Simone Biles type from a non/low revenue sport makes like 5 times the top athlete at Alabama.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 24, 2021, 04:59:03 PM
Going to be funny when a Simone Biles type from a non/low revenue sport makes like 5 times the top athlete at Alabama.

Katie Ledecky type has entered the chat
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: CAGASS24 on June 24, 2021, 05:16:35 PM
I wish they’d just find a way to do some sort of deferred compensation credit system - you complete a participation year in good standing with the school you earn a credit into a payment fund - credits transfer with you wherever you attend/participate- sign over your NLI upon entry and let the ncaa do what it’s good at - make money - get yours once you’ve exhausted your eligibility or turn pro
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 24, 2021, 05:21:29 PM
I wish they’d just find a way to do some sort of deferred compensation credit system - you complete a participation year in good standing with the school you earn a credit into a payment fund - credits transfer with you wherever you attend/participate- sign over your NLI upon entry and let the ncaa do what it’s good at - make money - get yours once you’ve exhausted your eligibility or turn pro

Why?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: CAGASS24 on June 24, 2021, 05:46:36 PM
Seems to make sense to me - shares the revenue - promotes attendance - let’s the kids be kids at this moment - gives them skin in the game - seems more administratively manageable
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 24, 2021, 06:51:33 PM
They aren't kids.  They are adults who have limitations on their ability to earn income unlike their peers. 
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: WhiteTrash on June 24, 2021, 07:00:27 PM
Let's remember the vast, vast majority of NCAA sports are huge costs to the schools. The schools do, and at great expense,  provide the opportunity and venue for the athletes to perform.

The issue seems to be that the NCAA is tasked with treating Duke basketball and South Dakota State swimming the same.

Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: CAGASS24 on June 24, 2021, 07:07:46 PM
They aren't kids.  They are adults who have limitations on their ability to earn income unlike their peers.

Absolutely - I guess I’m just trying to come up with a scenario that would help let college sports continue in full fashion - I’m all for change and letting people keep their fair share - I just don’t know if it’s tenable with the system as is - I guess that’s the point - but if you told me in 10 years there’d be 75 percent less college folks able to play sports during college because the sports scaled back to allow compensation I think that’d be unfortunate to some degree
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 24, 2021, 07:12:43 PM
Let's remember the vast, vast majority of NCAA sports are huge costs to the schools. The schools do, and at great expense,  provide the opportunity and venue for the athletes to perform.

The issue seems to be that the NCAA is tasked with treating Duke basketball and South Dakota State swimming the same.

The universities provide these opportunities to promote the university.  It isn’t simply altruistic.  And providing opportunities shouldn’t keep South Dakota State swimmers from earning off their name, image and likeness because of some archaic belief in the importance of amateurism
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: brewcity77 on June 24, 2021, 07:25:10 PM
I'm shocked that anyone still believes in shamateurism in the NCAA. It's a multi-billion dollar enterprise. Brett Kavanaugh essentially said it was worker exploitation. NIL or player compensation doesn't undermine college basketball, it's the first thing that has moved the sport toward a semblance of honesty in decades.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2021, 07:50:14 PM
The universities provide these opportunities to promote the university.  It isn’t simply altruistic.  And providing opportunities shouldn’t keep South Dakota State swimmers from earning off their name, image and likeness because of some archaic belief in the importance of amateurism

Swimmers (and all athletes from non revenue producing sports) should definitely be allowed to earn money off of their name, image and likeness. But should they be given scholarships? Why should the revenue producers support sports teams that can’t pay their own way?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 24, 2021, 07:52:00 PM
Swimmers (and all athletes from non revenue producing sports) should definitely be allowed to earn money off of their name, image and likeness. But should they be given scholarships? Why should the revenue producers support sports teams that can’t pay their own way?

Revenue producers doesn't necessarily mean profitable.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2021, 08:05:58 PM
Revenue producers doesn't necessarily mean profitable.

True, but at the P5/6 level (especially given TV money) isn’t it common for football and basketball to subsidize the other sports? If I’m wrong, end of discussion. If not, shouldn’t the football and basketball players get the money subsidizing the non revenue sports?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 24, 2021, 08:28:46 PM
True, but at the P5/6 level (especially given TV money) isn’t it common for football and basketball to subsidize the other sports? If I’m wrong, end of discussion. If not, shouldn’t the football and basketball players get the money subsidizing the non revenue sports?


I don't think so, but this has nothing to do with NIL.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: muwarrior69 on June 24, 2021, 08:40:10 PM
I didn't know that once you reach a certain pay threshold, jealousy goes away. Someone should tell Gordon Gecko.

But you seem to be saying that college players aren't paid well. So do you think that should be remedied?

I am sure the basketball player who has accepted a D1 scholarship at Rider University, tuition is 44k per year, feels well compensated and not under paid at all. His parents are thrilled he is getting a free education. He knows he is unlikely to play pro ball. I doubt he'll make any money on his NIL, but he'll graduate with a good degree, especially in business as the school has a highly regarded business school in the region.  I doubt schools like Rider make tons of money off their basketball program and the majority of D1 basketball schools are like Rider; not like the P5 or Big East or a handful of A10 schools where a players NIL might mean some extra money. So for the most part the players are well "paid".
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 24, 2021, 08:42:05 PM
I am sure the basketball player who has accepted a D1 scholarship at Rider University, tuition is 44k per year, feels well compensated and not under paid at all. His parents are thrilled he is getting a free education. He knows he is unlikely to play pro ball. I doubt he'll make any money on his NIL, but he'll graduate with a good degree, especially in business as the school has a highly regarded business school in the region.  I doubt schools like Rider make tons of money off their basketball program and the majority of D1 basketball schools are like Rider; not like the P5 or Big East or a handful of A10 schools where a players NIL might mean some extra money. So for the most part the players are well "paid".


Cool.  But what happens to a P6 player has no bearing on the player at Rider.  Both can earn money through NIL.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: muwarrior69 on June 24, 2021, 08:56:44 PM

Cool.  But what happens to a P6 player has no bearing on the player at Rider.  Both can earn money through NIL.

Both players are well compensated; one will make money through NIL the other though not impossible highly unlikely. I am just wondering how this will affect schools like Marquette, where will they find the NIL money to compete with the P5 schools for the best players? Not sure this will end well for Marquette basketball. Hope I am wrong.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: TAMU Eagle on June 24, 2021, 09:00:28 PM
I am sure the basketball player who has accepted a D1 scholarship at Rider University, tuition is 44k per year, feels well compensated and not under paid at all. His parents are thrilled he is getting a free education. He knows he is unlikely to play pro ball. I doubt he'll make any money on his NIL, but he'll graduate with a good degree, especially in business as the school has a highly regarded business school in the region.  I doubt schools like Rider make tons of money off their basketball program and the majority of D1 basketball schools are like Rider; not like the P5 or Big East or a handful of A10 schools where a players NIL might mean some extra money. So for the most part the players are well "paid".

So if the players are well paid... then according to you we don't have to worry about team cohesiveness because well paid people don't get jealous when their teammates make more than they do
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: TAMU Eagle on June 24, 2021, 09:04:15 PM
The issue seems to be that the NCAA is tasked with treating Duke basketball and South Dakota State swimming the same.

Yes,  both Duke basketball players and South Dakota State swimmers should be allowed to earn money off their NIL. The free market will determine how much each gets.  What's the problem?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Newsdreams on June 24, 2021, 09:36:00 PM
Both players are well compensated; one will make money through NIL the other though not impossible highly unlikely. I am just wondering how this will affect schools like Marquette, where will they find the NIL money to compete with the P5 schools for the best players? Not sure this will end well for Marquette basketball. Hope I am wrong.

I believe MU will do really well. MU was getting ready for NIL.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: JWags85 on June 24, 2021, 10:15:16 PM
I am sure the basketball player who has accepted a D1 scholarship at Rider University, tuition is 44k per year, feels well compensated and not under paid at all. His parents are thrilled he is getting a free education. He knows he is unlikely to play pro ball. I doubt he'll make any money on his NIL, but he'll graduate with a good degree, especially in business as the school has a highly regarded business school in the region.  I doubt schools like Rider make tons of money off their basketball program and the majority of D1 basketball schools are like Rider; not like the P5 or Big East or a handful of A10 schools where a players NIL might mean some extra money. So for the most part the players are well "paid".

But now that player, who perhaps is well liked and gregarious in post game interviews and press conferences, might have a name, no matter the relative size, in that central NJ market. And he can find a way to make money off of that in some way with content for a restaurant or car dealership or store near Rider
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Hards_Alumni on June 25, 2021, 06:14:14 AM
Yes,  both Duke basketball players and South Dakota State swimmers should be allowed to earn money off their NIL. The free market will determine how much each gets.  What's the problem?

He has no ethos.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 25, 2021, 06:31:25 AM
Both players are well compensated; one will make money through NIL the other though not impossible highly unlikely. I am just wondering how this will affect schools like Marquette, where will they find the NIL money to compete with the P5 schools for the best players? Not sure this will end well for Marquette basketball. Hope I am wrong.


Rider hasn't had enough money to compete with the P6 for the best players for years.  But as TAMU said, maybe Rider gets real creative at the NIL game and is able to recruit a higher caliber player because of this.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: brewcity77 on June 25, 2021, 06:41:45 AM
Both players are well compensated; one will make money through NIL the other though not impossible highly unlikely. I am just wondering how this will affect schools like Marquette, where will they find the NIL money to compete with the P5 schools for the best players? Not sure this will end well for Marquette basketball. Hope I am wrong.

The same could be said of Gonzaga, yet their marketing team has them at the forefront of NIL. All this means is the haves will do better and the have nots will not. So basically, the same situation we're in now, except the labor force is able to share some of the billions in revenue that is being made on their backs.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 25, 2021, 06:46:16 AM
The same could be said of Gonzaga, yet their marketing team has them at the forefront of NIL. All this means is the haves will do better and the have nots will not. So basically, the same situation we're in now, except the labor force is able to share some of the billions in revenue that is being made on their backs.

A Venn diagram of the people worried about an unlevel playing field and lovers of capitalism
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: lawdog77 on June 25, 2021, 07:52:18 AM
Interesting article
https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/college-athletes-dont-get-paid-racial-inequities (https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/college-athletes-dont-get-paid-racial-inequities)

I think there is some inherent racial bias, funneling $$ from sports which have a larger percentage of athletes that are black into sports which are predominately white.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Pakuni on June 25, 2021, 08:18:18 AM
Let's remember the vast, vast majority of NCAA sports are huge costs to the schools. The schools do, and at great expense,  provide the opportunity and venue for the athletes to perform.

The issue seems to be that the NCAA is tasked with treating Duke basketball and South Dakota State swimming the same.

How does NIL affect this?
South Dakota State's swimming program won't be impacted one bit because some Duke basketball player gets $20K from Nike.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Pakuni on June 25, 2021, 08:20:26 AM
A Venn diagram of the people worried about an unlevel playing field and lovers of capitalism

A Venn diagram of the people who want athletes from revenue sports subsidizing athletes from nonrevenue sports and lovers of capitalism.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: MU82 on June 25, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Chaos. Should be fun!
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: MU82 on June 25, 2021, 11:12:24 AM
Lead of an op-ed in today's Charlotte Observer:

This week’s U.S. Supreme Court ruling allowing schools to offer extra benefits for college athletes is another blow to the NCAA’s tortured attempts to maintain the amateurism of those whose talents produce big pay for others.

But the blow wasn’t really dealt by the court. The NCAA did it to itself. First it let the standard of the true student-athlete erode and then the NCAA exploded it in 2017 when it sidestepped the scandal over athletes taking phony classes at the University of North Carolina. The governing body of college sports declined to sanction UNC, saying it had no authority to require a minimum of academic rigor in classes taken by those it calls student-athletes.

Southeastern Conference Commissioner Greg Sankey, who led the NCAA’s investigation into years of sham UNC classes involving more than 3,000 students, nearly half of them athletes, said the NCAA was troubled by the fraud but was unable to act.

“NCAA policy is clear,” Sankey said. “The NCAA defers to its member schools to determine whether academic fraud occurred.”

That concession capped decades of the NCAA looking the other way as schools increasingly flouted the presumption that athletes in big-time college football and basketball programs would be compensated with an actual college education.

Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Jockey on June 25, 2021, 11:48:52 AM
Yes,  both Duke basketball players and South Dakota State swimmers should be allowed to earn money off their NIL. The free market will determine how much each gets.  What's the problem?

Free marketers only believe in the free market some of the time?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Jockey on June 25, 2021, 11:56:14 AM
Both players are well compensated; one will make money through NIL the other though not impossible highly unlikely. I am just wondering how this will affect schools like Marquette, where will they find the NIL money to compete with the P5 schools for the best players? Not sure this will end well for Marquette basketball. Hope I am wrong.


Marquette (or any school) will not pay NIL money.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Newsdreams on June 25, 2021, 12:14:53 PM

Marquette (or any school) will not pay NIL money.
I think a lot of people have no idea how NIL works.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: The Lens on June 25, 2021, 12:34:19 PM
Where you're going to see a lot of success is kids being able coach / personal train / mentor younger players.  Parents will pay a premium for a D1 athlete working with their middle school & HS son or daughter.  Imagine if you could have your freshman in HS work with Andrew Rowsey for $100 / hour each week?

Also, good looking co-eds with nice sized IG followings.   
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: lawdog77 on June 25, 2021, 12:37:40 PM
I honestly didnt know college gymnastics would garner so much in NIL. I always thought the college gymnast were the ones not good enough/too old to make the Olympics.  Here's a couple articles I found interesting.
https://www.athleticdirectoru.com/articles/how-much-is-nil-really-worth-to-student-athletes/ (https://www.athleticdirectoru.com/articles/how-much-is-nil-really-worth-to-student-athletes/)

https://www.ajc.com/sports/mike-check-blog/volleyball-player-proves-less-famous-athletes-can-cash-in-on-nil/KE47XPNO6JGGREDB32CURVGYMU/ (https://www.ajc.com/sports/mike-check-blog/volleyball-player-proves-less-famous-athletes-can-cash-in-on-nil/KE47XPNO6JGGREDB32CURVGYMU/)

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/icon-source-shares-top-nil-130200068.html (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/icon-source-shares-top-nil-130200068.html)


Question, can a school put in their scholarship offer a clause about getting a certain percentage of the individuals NIL?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: lawdog77 on June 25, 2021, 12:39:21 PM
Where you're going to see a lot of success is kids being able coach / personal train / mentor younger players.  Parents will pay a premium for a D1 athlete working with their middle school & HS son or daughter.  Imagine if you could have your freshman in HS work with Andrew Rowsey for $100 / hour each week?

Also, good looking co-eds with nice sized IG followings.   
I don't think schools will allow players to be personal trainers/coaches. That's not what NIL is for, unless you want a hologram Andrew Rowsey.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: TAMU Eagle on June 25, 2021, 12:44:58 PM
I don't think schools will allow players to be personal trainers/coaches. That's not what NIL is for, unless you want a hologram Andrew Rowsey.

Every person I have talked to in college athletics has said the opposite. Sure it likely won't be allowed during the season but offseason.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: lawdog77 on June 25, 2021, 12:53:16 PM
I have been wrong before, and wrong often, but it would be fine to say Andrew Rowsey, MU athlete, landscaper, but I would think MU would be able to put limitations on what type of side hustle he would do (such working as a personal trainer), just for liability purposes in case he gets hurt.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Hards_Alumni on June 25, 2021, 12:56:28 PM
I honestly didnt know college gymnastics would garner so much in NIL. I always thought the college gymnast were the ones not good enough/too old to make the Olympics.  Here's a couple articles I found interesting.
https://www.athleticdirectoru.com/articles/how-much-is-nil-really-worth-to-student-athletes/ (https://www.athleticdirectoru.com/articles/how-much-is-nil-really-worth-to-student-athletes/)

https://www.ajc.com/sports/mike-check-blog/volleyball-player-proves-less-famous-athletes-can-cash-in-on-nil/KE47XPNO6JGGREDB32CURVGYMU/ (https://www.ajc.com/sports/mike-check-blog/volleyball-player-proves-less-famous-athletes-can-cash-in-on-nil/KE47XPNO6JGGREDB32CURVGYMU/)

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/icon-source-shares-top-nil-130200068.html (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/icon-source-shares-top-nil-130200068.html)


Question, can a school put in their scholarship offer a clause about getting a certain percentage of the individuals NIL?

Simone Biles has been the best gymnast in the world for quite some time, and she is 24.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: lawdog77 on June 25, 2021, 12:58:29 PM
Simone Biles has been the best gymnast in the world for quite some time, and she is 24.
Correct. She did not go to college. She was going to attend UCLA, but instead, she turned pro in 2015.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: MU82 on June 25, 2021, 12:59:03 PM
I have been wrong before, and wrong often, but it would be fine to say Andrew Rowsey, MU athlete, landscaper, but I would think MU would be able to put limitations on what type of side hustle he would do (such working as a personal trainer), just for liability purposes in case he gets hurt.

I hope you're wrong (but I don't know that you are).

This would be the perfect use of an athlete's NIL - he or she would actually be able to use his or her talent within the scope of his or her "profession."

It would be akin to an accomplished violinist in a school's music department being allowed to give violin lessons in the "offseason," or a math genius being allowed to tutor kids in math.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: lawdog77 on June 25, 2021, 01:07:30 PM
I hope I am wrong too, but I just think the risk of injury would be too great for football and basketball players especially. The instagram/youtube avenue seems to be where the big money would be.

Here's what some NBA players make via instagram
https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/these-nba-players-are-earning-big-bucks-on-instagram.html/ (https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/these-nba-players-are-earning-big-bucks-on-instagram.html/)
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: cheebs09 on June 25, 2021, 01:24:06 PM
Correct. She did not go to college. She was going to attend UCLA, but instead, she turned pro in 2015.

I would guess the decision would have been different if she was able to receive NIL money.

Did Ledecky have to put her Olympic endorsements in a trust until she graduated college?

Edited: I stopped being lazy and Googled. Looks like she passed up $5M per year in order to swim collegiately.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Newsdreams on June 25, 2021, 01:30:46 PM
I hope I am wrong too, but I just think the risk of injury would be too great for football and basketball players especially. The instagram/youtube avenue seems to be where the big money would be.

Here's what some NBA players make via instagram
https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/these-nba-players-are-earning-big-bucks-on-instagram.html/ (https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/these-nba-players-are-earning-big-bucks-on-instagram.html/)
I don't think on their own time, after and before season schools can't interfere, if he gets hurt his scholarship doesn't get renewed. Remember scholarships are on school year basis, and I'm sure athletes can pay an insurance for that and for injuries to any people participating in trainings.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: lawdog77 on June 25, 2021, 01:33:09 PM
I would guess the decision would have been different if she was able to receive NIL money.

Did Ledecky have to put her Olympic endorsements in a trust until she graduated college?

Edited: I stopped being lazy and Googled. Looks like she passed up $5M per year in order to swim collegiately.
I agree on that, but that wasn't my point. My I was trying to state that I thought College Gymnastics was currently a bunch of semi irrelevant athletes who were clear second tier to the Olympians. These gymnasts clearly have some social media clout.

 I think the NIL will help colleges in the Olympic Sports (Track, Swimming, etc). Many who go "pro" early, might stay in/go to college.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: lawdog77 on June 25, 2021, 01:40:02 PM
I don't think on their own time, after and before season schools can't interfere, if he gets hurt his scholarship doesn't get renewed. Remember scholarships are on school year basis, and I'm sure athletes can pay an insurance for that and for injuries to any people participating in trainings.
Those type of policies (LOV) are generally for lottery picks, as it would be hard to prove their loss of earnings otherwise.  Even if they did get this policy, it doesn't help the school if the student athlete is injured.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: MU82 on June 25, 2021, 01:41:19 PM
College basketball players take part in non-school-sanctioned pickup games all the time and are far more likely to get hurt in those than in giving shooting lessons to a 5th-grader.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: lawdog77 on June 25, 2021, 01:50:17 PM
College basketball players take part in non-school-sanctioned pickup games all the time and are far more likely to get hurt in those than in giving shooting lessons to a 5th-grader.
I understand that, but that doesn't mean that the school doesn't have a right to deny the type of work a SA does. It's moving toward a employer/employee relationship rather than student athlete anyway. If it truly becomes an employer/employee relationship a school would have that right. But then again School B may allow that side job.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Jockey on June 25, 2021, 01:57:22 PM
How does NIL affect this?
South Dakota State's swimming program won't be impacted one bit because some Duke basketball player gets $20K from Nike.

Not only that, but a swimmer would be a bigger fish in a small pond at a school like SDS. There is no reason to think that the top swimmer there wouldn't have opportunities just like a Duke BB player. Might be for a lesser amount of money, but then again, it might not be.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: StillAWarrior on June 25, 2021, 02:09:02 PM
This would be the perfect use of an athlete's NIL - he or she would actually be able to use his or her talent within the scope of his or her "profession."

It would be akin to an accomplished violinist in a school's music department being allowed to give violin lessons in the "offseason," or a math genius being allowed to tutor kids in math.

Although there are some ridiculous restrictions - most notably that the student athlete cannot use his/her name or likeness to promote the lessons - it's actually allowed under current rules.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: MU82 on June 25, 2021, 03:08:05 PM
Although there are some ridiculous restrictions - most notably that the student athlete cannot use his/her name or likeness to promote the lessons - it's actually allowed under current rules.

Thanks for that. I didn't know. But what appears likely to happen after all is said and done will be that the student-athlete WILL be allowed to use his/her name or likeness to promote the lessons. As it should be. The coach sure as heck uses his/her name to promote his/her incredibly lucrative camp.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: StillAWarrior on June 25, 2021, 03:13:50 PM
Thanks for that. I didn't know. But what appears likely to happen after all is said and done will be that the student-athlete WILL be allowed to use his/her name or likeness to promote the lessons. As it should be. The coach sure as heck uses his/her name to promote his/her incredibly lucrative camp.

Agreed. Like I said, it was a ridiculous restriction. I know that in the club volleyball world, a kid coming back from college that could really market herself could make a lot of money over the summer. Of course, at a lot of schools those girls are kept on campus all summer which might reduce their earning potential. I think they would be more marketable back home than around campus.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Newsdreams on June 25, 2021, 04:40:59 PM
Those type of policies (LOV) are generally for lottery picks, as it would be hard to prove their loss of earnings otherwise.  Even if they did get this policy, it doesn't help the school if the student athlete is injured.
The school basically ends scholarship contract at the end of school year. So they have no loss. Student could recoup a loss on possible scholarship. Not talking about millions, insurance companies do this all the time. All about probability and they will charge accordingly and make money. Capitalism / Free market 
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on June 25, 2021, 05:28:53 PM
I honestly didnt know college gymnastics would garner so much in NIL. I always thought the college gymnast were the ones not good enough/too old to make the Olympics.  Here's a couple articles I found interesting.
https://www.athleticdirectoru.com/articles/how-much-is-nil-really-worth-to-student-athletes/ (https://www.athleticdirectoru.com/articles/how-much-is-nil-really-worth-to-student-athletes/)

https://www.ajc.com/sports/mike-check-blog/volleyball-player-proves-less-famous-athletes-can-cash-in-on-nil/KE47XPNO6JGGREDB32CURVGYMU/ (https://www.ajc.com/sports/mike-check-blog/volleyball-player-proves-less-famous-athletes-can-cash-in-on-nil/KE47XPNO6JGGREDB32CURVGYMU/)

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/icon-source-shares-top-nil-130200068.html (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/icon-source-shares-top-nil-130200068.html)


Question, can a school put in their scholarship offer a clause about getting a certain percentage of the individuals NIL?
There are hundreds (maybe thousands) of elite level gymnasts that never get close to sniffing the Olympics. They are very very good at gymnastics and do have huge followings.  My 12 year old daughter is a gymnast and my wife is a former gymnast so I know how these things work.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on June 26, 2021, 06:16:39 AM
There are hundreds (maybe thousands) of elite level gymnasts that never get close to sniffing the Olympics. They are very very good at gymnastics and do have huge followings.  My 12 year old daughter is a gymnast and my wife is a former gymnast so I know how these things work.

(https://y.yarn.co/e44cd374-e46a-48ef-9e68-dc60aa325287_text.gif)
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Shooter McGavin on June 26, 2021, 09:21:48 AM
This is where an enterprising donor calling the Garcia family and promising an advertising deal that exceeds the G League minimum would be a savvy move.

Brew,  does marquette have a specific department for this within the athletic department to get these offers and present them to the players?  I’ve been saying this for two years that a team of Marquette employees should be on this daily even if it takes away funding from other students academic/athletic or otherwise in the short term.  The benefit of being ahead of this and keeping players like Garcia will far outweigh the negatives if regular tournaments are on the horizon.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: The Equalizer on June 26, 2021, 12:07:27 PM
Brew,  does marquette have a specific department for this within the athletic department to get these offers and present them to the players?  I’ve been saying this for two years that a team of Marquette employees should be on this daily even if it takes away funding from other students academic/athletic or otherwise in the short term.  The benefit of being ahead of this and keeping players like Garcia will far outweigh the negatives if regular tournaments are on the horizon.

I don't believe the NIL rules allow direct payment of players by the college--all the discussions seem to reflect the loss of the NCAA's ability to control independent money-earning activity by the athlete: the volleyball player with a home improvement blog, a player offering lessons, etc.

Old and illegal: A local booster creates a "job" to funnel cash to a prized recruit.  Public opinion is this is viewed as wrong and cheating (except by the fans of the schools that get away with it and win).  The NCAA attempts to rein this in by not allowing athletes to have outside income because it's difficult to separate the cheating booster paying hoops star on a no-show job from the enterprising volleyball player taking ads on her home improvement blog.

New and permitted: The same local booster can license a prized recruits NIL. 

I don't see the need for schools to set up departments to manage this.  A simple phone call from the coach to a booster saying "I really want Player X" will result in a call from the booster to the recruit: "Say, I've got a "College Ambassador Program" job for you if you become a Fighting Beaver at the U of Y. It involves licensing your NIL to me. The job pays $100,000 per year. Interested?"

I simply don't see the NIL funding turning into a fair evaluation of the actualy value of a particular player's name, influencing ability, likeness, etc.  Yes, there will be some of that available, but it's hard to imagine that there's a ton of money to make a college basketball player a celebrity spokesperson based solely on his own NIL. 

But for a top 10 recruit?  Is there anyone here who doesn't see this turning into a battle of deep-pocketed boosters who will be able to come out into the open and use the new NIL rules to buy the best possible team for their school?

For starters, here are some really interesting discussion topics I haven't seen brought up yet:

1. Where does MU's booster community stand relative to others schools in the Big East (and the NCAA overall) in terms of being able to fund a competitive team?  How wealthy are our boosters and how willing are they to open their wallets? 

2. Will this permanently impact the competitive balance in certain leagues?  For example, will we see Alabama boosters fund football players to the exclusion of the basketball team, and the opposite at Kentucky, resulting in a situation where UK is always a contender in basketball and Alabama always an also-ran in basketball (and the opposite in football)?  Are there programs that will be able to afford both?

3. What will happen from teams that lack the deep-pocketed alums and the school also lacks the geography, demographics or size to generate even modest organic NIL contracts?  I don't see either organic NIL or a lot of booster money for, say, Central Arkansas or Missouri State.  That having been said, do schools near big media markets have a built in advantage?

4. What will be the going rate to ensure a recruit's signature on a letter of intent?   I assume a sliding scale (top 10 earning more than 50 to 100).  Where does the slide end?  Can a recruit outside the top 100 still generate sizable NIL money? 

5. Are there any dark horses who have underperformed for years, but going to emerge when their boosters can openly contract for their recruits' NIL? Could, for example, DePaul suddenly become a national contender because there's enough Chicago booster money to outbid UK, UNC or Kansas for top players' NIL?

6. Similarly, are there any perennial teams that lack the booster wealth to pay the NIL going rates?  Could we see, say, Gonzaga return to mid-major performance because their boosters are collectively less wealthy than others?

7. What about avoiding transfers?  I'm sure the unknown player who turns into a freshman star is going to be worth more in terms of NIL.  Can he throw around transfer threats to secure more NIL money?

I'm sure there are more interesting discussion points in addition to these--all of which are more relevant than continuing discussions of gymnasts or tuba players.






Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: MU82 on June 28, 2021, 04:25:14 PM
College Players May Make Money Off Their Fame, Powerful N.C.A.A. Panel Recommends

Pressured by a wave of state laws taking effect on July 1, the college sports industry is on the verge of letting players profit off their names, images and likenesses.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/28/sports/ncaabasketball/ncaa-athletes-endorsement-deals.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210628&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=61982&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

N.C.A.A. leaders on Monday recommended a hastily crafted plan for student-athletes to make endorsements and profit off their names, one of the final steps toward a groundbreaking shift in the philosophical and financial underpinnings of college sports.

The guidelines, which a committee of commissioners and athletic directors recommended just three days before new state laws designed to challenge the N.C.A.A. were to take effect, are poised to offer coast-to-coast clearance for students to earn money through autograph signings, personal appearances, endorsements, social media and other kinds of deals.

Taken together, the state laws and likely to be relaxed industry rules will open a new era in college sports and allow players — not just schools, conferences, coaches and the N.C.A.A. itself — to look to the marketplace to capitalize on their fame for the first time. Some athletes could earn hundreds of thousands of dollars or more, though most are expected to pull in far smaller sums, if anything at all.

A board mostly filled with university chancellors and presidents must still sign off on the plan, which officials spent days refining after a Supreme Court ruling last week made the N.C.A.A. more vulnerable to antitrust challenges. But college sports executives ultimately expect the group’s backing during a meeting on Wednesday.

Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Pakuni on June 28, 2021, 05:26:54 PM

I don't see the need for schools to set up departments to manage this.  A simple phone call from the coach to a booster saying "I really want Player X" will result in a call from the booster to the recruit: "Say, I've got a "College Ambassador Program" job for you if you become a Fighting Beaver at the U of Y. It involves licensing your NIL to me. The job pays $100,000 per year. Interested?"
I simply don't see the NIL funding turning into a fair evaluation of the actualy value of a particular player's name, influencing ability, likeness, etc.  Yes, there will be some of that available, but it's hard to imagine that there's a ton of money to make a college basketball player a celebrity spokesperson based solely on his own NIL. 
But for a top 10 recruit?  Is there anyone here who doesn't see this turning into a battle of deep-pocketed boosters who will be able to come out into the open and use the new NIL rules to buy the best possible team for their school?

1. This already happens.
2. The NCAA interim rules for NIL state payments "in exchange for athletic performance or attendance" at a particular school is prohibited.
Of course, the NCAA would have to prove some kind of quid-pro-quo, but again, that's status quo..
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: PointWarrior on June 28, 2021, 06:18:38 PM
Can't wait for first player to sue a coach cause of lack of playing time impacted their NIL :)
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: WhiteTrash on June 28, 2021, 06:32:31 PM
1. This already happens.
2. The NCAA interim rules for NIL state payments "in exchange for athletic performance or attendance" at a particular school is prohibited.
Of course, the NCAA would have to prove some kind of quid-pro-quo, but again, that's status quo..
1. Robbery and murder already happens,  so what? The fact that schools cheat is not a reason for changing rules. If your in favor of no rules, that's fine but just because some schools cheat is a lazy argument.
2. I'm not opposed to NIL, but the NCAA and specifically the member schools are in a tough spot to create a level playing field.

Unfortunately some schools are not like MU who plays by the rules. The NCAA has to regulate the SEC.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 28, 2021, 06:35:37 PM
1. Robbery and murder already happens,  so what? The fact that schools cheat is not a reason for changing rules. If your in favor of no rules, that's fine but just because some schools cheat is a lazy argument.
2. I'm not opposed to NIL, but the NCAA and specifically the member schools are in a tough spot to create a level playing field.

Unfortunately some schools are not like MU who plays by the rules. The NCAA has to regulate the SEC.

There isn’t a level playing field now
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: WhiteTrash on June 28, 2021, 06:51:31 PM
There isn’t a level playing field now
I agree but should there not be an effort to make it level? Pro sports do it fairly well.

If the schools want to go to a wide open pay for players system that's fine but then we'll need a new division for non-state schools that can't afford players. I really don't care, I just want a fair system.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 28, 2021, 07:03:30 PM
I agree but should there not be an effort to make it level? Pro sports do it fairly well.

If the schools want to go to a wide open pay for players system that's fine but then we'll need a new division for non-state schools that can't afford players. I really don't care, I just want a fair system.

The schools aren’t paying a nickel for NIL
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Pakuni on June 28, 2021, 07:31:42 PM
1. Robbery and murder already happens,  so what? The fact that schools cheat is not a reason for changing rules. If your in favor of no rules, that's fine but just because some schools cheat is a lazy argument.
Can you point out where I or anyone else has supported NIL because schools cheat anyhow?


Quote
2. I'm not opposed to NIL, but the NCAA and specifically the member schools are in a tough spot to create a level playing field.

In what fantasy world has there ever been a level playing field in NCAA athletics? Do you believe Ohio State and Akron have been playing on a level  field? Or Kentucky and Austin Peay?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Pakuni on June 28, 2021, 07:34:02 PM
I agree but should there not be an effort to make it level? Pro sports do it fairly well.

Pro sports do it fairly well by sharing revenues among teams, as well as with the athletes.
That's the last thing the NCAA wants.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 28, 2021, 07:44:40 PM
Pro sports do it fairly well by sharing revenues among teams, as well as with the athletes.
That's the last thing the NCAA wants.


Yeah, if the NCAA really wanted to make things level, NIL disparities are WAY down the list of things they should be concerned about.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: MU82 on June 28, 2021, 07:48:08 PM
I agree but should there not be an effort to make it level? Pro sports do it fairly well.

If the schools want to go to a wide open pay for players system that's fine but then we'll need a new division for non-state schools that can't afford players. I really don't care, I just want a fair system.

The boat sailed on there being a level playing field in college sports ... oh ... at least 100 years ago. The NCAA sure hasn't shown interest or ability in doing so.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Jockey on June 28, 2021, 08:44:58 PM
I agree but should there not be an effort to make it level? Pro sports do it fairly well.

If the schools want to go to a wide open pay for players system that's fine but then we'll need a new division for non-state schools that can't afford players. I really don't care, I just want a fair system.


NIL has nothing to do with schools paying players.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: dgies9156 on June 28, 2021, 11:12:50 PM
I don't believe the NIL rules allow direct payment of players by the college--all the discussions seem to reflect the loss of the NCAA's ability to control independent money-earning activity by the athlete: the volleyball player with a home improvement blog, a player offering lessons, etc.


Brother Equalizer, some answers!

1. Where does MU's booster community stand relative to others schools in the Big East (and the NCAA overall) in terms of being able to fund a competitive team?  How wealthy are our boosters and how willing are they to open their wallets?  Enthusiastic but cheap. Do you really see enough big-time boosters in our program to ensure we have the team to complete at the highest levels of the NCAA? I don't and I think that's a HUGE risk for MU basketball. Dick Strong has disappeared and I question whether there's another Strongman lurking in the background.

And so you don't think I'm just picking on us, I see this as a major problem for most of the Big East, for Gonzaga and for most private universities not named Notre Dame. I don't see the boosters stepping up the way they will at North Carolina, Kentucky, Texas, Virginia etc. My fear is we are a dinosaur.


2. Will this permanently impact the competitive balance in certain leagues?  For example, will we see Alabama boosters fund football players to the exclusion of the basketball team, and the opposite at Kentucky, resulting in a situation where UK is always a contender in basketball and Alabama always an also-ran in basketball (and the opposite in football)?  Are there programs that will be able to afford both? What do you think? Of course it will. In the SEC, an all-sports program means places like Alabama, Florida, even LSU and the UT Vols, not to mention Texas A&M, will start bidding wars. This will escalate into the stratosphere. Look at what's happening with the shoe companies and the way they pay 'handlers!'

3. What will happen from teams that lack the deep-pocketed alums and the school also lacks the geography, demographics or size to generate even modest organic NIL contracts?  I don't see either organic NIL or a lot of booster money for, say, Central Arkansas or Missouri State.  That having been said, do schools near big media markets have a built in advantage? Same thing that happens to them in college football. They get squashed. As for major markets, I think the bigger issue is exposure and what conference you're in. The Power 5 will inevitably spread their largess. The BEast has a good TV contract which creates visibility but the lack of huge booster groups (except, maybe, at Villanova) may offset any TV advantage.

4. What will be the going rate to ensure a recruit's signature on a letter of intent?   I assume a sliding scale (top 10 earning more than 50 to 100).  Where does the slide end?  Can a recruit outside the top 100 still generate sizable NIL money?  Can a defensive tackle get the same money as a first round quarterback in the NFL? Hardly. Depends on need at the time, who is competing and how badly a school wants a player. Coaching will still matter and people will go where the coaches are really good and have a great record of getting their players to the show -- but it won't be cheap!

5. Are there any dark horses who have underperformed for years, but going to emerge when their boosters can openly contract for their recruits' NIL? Could, for example, DePaul suddenly become a national contender because there's enough Chicago booster money to outbid UK, UNC or Kansas for top players' NIL? C'mon, you're talking DePaul. The school that made Jean Lenti-Ponsetto a goddess. Seriously, my candidate for underperformer who enters into blue blood status is the University of Memphis. They own a fertile recruiting ground (Memphis) and have shown a willingness to throw money around like candy from a parade float for the right guys. Miami also would be a good place to look for this.

DePaul's ultimate problem is they are a small fish in a very large pond. Chicago is a market at least 10 major conference schools can claim as their own (OK, since you asked, Notre Dame, Illinois, Northwestern, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan State and Marquette. All have big alumni concentrations in the Chicago area). Little fish tend to be bait in a big market like Chicago.


6. Similarly, are there any perennial teams that lack the booster wealth to pay the NIL going rates?  Could we see, say, Gonzaga return to mid-major performance because their boosters are collectively less wealthy than others? See above. Gonzaga, Dayton and maybe even Duke would qualify. Most of the Big East falls into this category.

7. What about avoiding transfers?  I'm sure the unknown player who turns into a freshman star is going to be worth more in terms of NIL.  Can he throw around transfer threats to secure more NIL money? Uuuhh, can you threaten to leave if your boss doesn't pay you enough? Of course. I promise this will happen. Jeronne Maymon was born about 10 years too soon. Think of what Tim Maymon would have been like if there was real money involved!


I'm sure there are more interesting discussion points in addition to these--all of which are more relevant than continuing discussions of gymnasts or tuba players.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 28, 2021, 11:20:43 PM

Brother Equalizer, some answers!

1. Where does MU's booster community stand relative to others schools in the Big East (and the NCAA overall) in terms of being able to fund a competitive team?  How wealthy are our boosters and how willing are they to open their wallets?  Enthusiastic but cheap. Do you really see enough big-time boosters in our program to ensure we have the team to complete at the highest levels of the NCAA? I don't and I think that's a HUGE risk for MU basketball. Dick Strong has disappeared and I question whether there's another Strongman lurking in the background.

And so you don't think I'm just picking on us, I see this as a major problem for most of the Big East, for Gonzaga and for most private universities not named Notre Dame. I don't see the boosters stepping up the way they will at North Carolina, Kentucky, Texas, Virginia etc. My fear is we are a dinosaur.


2. Will this permanently impact the competitive balance in certain leagues?  For example, will we see Alabama boosters fund football players to the exclusion of the basketball team, and the opposite at Kentucky, resulting in a situation where UK is always a contender in basketball and Alabama always an also-ran in basketball (and the opposite in football)?  Are there programs that will be able to afford both? What do you think? Of course it will. In the SEC, an all-sports program means places like Alabama, Florida, even LSU and the UT Vols, not to mention Texas A&M, will start bidding wars. This will escalate into the stratosphere. Looka at's happening with the shoe companies and the way they pay 'handlers!'

3. What will happen from teams that lack the deep-pocketed alums and the school also lacks the geography, demographics or size to generate even modest organic NIL contracts?  I don't see either organic NIL or a lot of booster money for, say, Central Arkansas or Missouri State.  That having been said, do schools near big media markets have a built in advantage? Same thing that happens to them in college football. They get squashed. As for major markets, I think the bigger issue is exposure and what conference you're in. The Power 5 will inevitably spread their largess. The Beast has a good TV contract which creates visibility but the lack of huge booster groups (except, maybe, at Villanova) may offset any TV advantage.

4. What will be the going rate to ensure a recruit's signature on a letter of intent?   I assume a sliding scale (top 10 earning more than 50 to 100).  Where does the slide end?  Can a recruit outside the top 100 still generate sizable NIL money?  Can a defensive tackle get the same money as a first round quarterback in the NFL? Hardly. Depends on need at the time, who is competing and how badly a school wants a player. Coaching will still matter and people will go where the coaches are really good and have a great record of getting their players to the show -- but it won't be cheap!

5. Are there any dark horses who have underperformed for years, but going to emerge when their boosters can openly contract for their recruits' NIL? Could, for example, DePaul suddenly become a national contender because there's enough Chicago booster money to outbid UK, UNC or Kansas for top players' NIL? C'mon, you're talking DePaul. The school that made Jean Lenti-Ponsetto a goddess. Seriously, my candidate for underperformer who enters into blue blood status is the University of Memphis. They own a fertile recruiting ground (Memphis) and have shown a willingness to throw money around like candy from a parade float for the right guys. Miami also would be a good place to look for this.

DePaul's ultimate problem is they are a small fish in a very large pond. Chicago is a market at least 10 major conference schools can claim as their own (OK, since you asked, Notre Dame, Illinois, Northwestern, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan State and Marquette. All have big alumni concentrations in the Chicago area. Little fish tend to be bait in a big market like Chicago.


6. Similarly, are there any perennial teams that lack the booster wealth to pay the NIL going rates?  Could we see, say, Gonzaga return to mid-major performance because their boosters are collectively less wealthy than others? See above. Gonzaga, Dayton and maybe even Duke would qualify. Most of the Big East falls into this category.

7. What about avoiding transfers?  I'm sure the unknown player who turns into a freshman star is going to be worth more in terms of NIL.  Can he throw around transfer threats to secure more NIL money? Uuuhh, can you threaten to leave if your boss doesn't pay you enough? Of course. I promise this will happen. Jeronne Maymon was born about 10 years too soon. Think of what Tim Maymon would have been like if there was real money involved!


I'm sure there are more interesting discussion points in addition to these--all of which are more relevant than continuing discussions of gymnasts or tuba players.

Just gonna go out on a limb and say you're wildly understating depaul. Marquette has a ton of stakeholders in the Chicagoland area, Depaul is the biggest Catholic School in the country though on par with many state schools, if we aggressively say each of those non northwestern schools puts 15% of their alumni in the Chicagoland area and depaul keeps 50% or even less then they still outnumber the majority of those other schools (UofI and NW not included in this).  Essentially I'd wager Depaul has a great opportunity to be something here they will likely bungle it, though it won't have anything to do with your logic.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 29, 2021, 07:29:29 AM
DePaul has a lot of alumni, but I just don't think a lot of them are very interested in their college basketball team.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: lawdog77 on June 29, 2021, 08:23:52 AM
On a side note, Dawson Garcia has 10K+ Instagram followers. Googling that, he should make about $100 per post. That's all I know on how to make $$ on Instagram.

Does MU offer any sort of course on social media/monetizing?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: PointWarrior on June 29, 2021, 10:26:27 AM
Awesome - can’t wait for players to start making plays for themselves to drive social media traffic than making good team decisions.




On a side note, Dawson Garcia has 10K+ Instagram followers. Googling that, he should make about $100 per post. That's all I know on how to make $$ on Instagram.

Does MU offer any sort of course on social media/monetizing?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 29, 2021, 10:29:09 AM
Awesome - can’t wait for players to start making plays for themselves to drive social media traffic than making good team decisions.


Does this happen in professional sports now?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: PointWarrior on June 29, 2021, 10:49:28 AM
Dumb response.  Pro’s having million dollar and up base contracts and millions more in incentives.  Role player in college likely makes little, could definitely be interested making some more cash with self-promotion on social media. 




Does this happen in professional sports now?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Pakuni on June 29, 2021, 10:55:29 AM
Dumb response.  Pro’s having million dollar and up base contracts and millions more in incentives.  Role player in college likely makes little, could definitely be interested making some more cash with self-promotion on social media.

Dumb initial post.
The idea that unselfish and/or role players are suddenly going to turn into ballhogs for social media likes is ridiculous.
Peak Chicken Little on Scoop over this whole thing.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 29, 2021, 11:08:21 AM
Dumb response.  Pro’s having million dollar and up base contracts and millions more in incentives.  Role player in college likely makes little, could definitely be interested making some more cash with self-promotion on social media. 


So you have already backed off your definitive statement, and now are hedging your bets with "could."  And you're accusing me of a dumb response?

Anyway, if this becomes an actual problem, the role player won't play much any more.  Its pretty simple.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Newsdreams on June 29, 2021, 11:09:36 AM
On a side note, Dawson Garcia has 10K+ Instagram followers. Googling that, he should make about $100 per post. That's all I know on how to make $$ on Instagram.

Does MU offer any sort of course on social media monetizing?
Yes, a couple of years back one of the guys in the team posted that is what he was concentrating in College of Communication, courses on social media as a business. Maybe it was GE?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: cheebs09 on June 29, 2021, 11:10:15 AM
Any different than playing more selfish with a pro scout in the crowd?

I think 3 years after NIL becomes the norm in college, we will wonder what we were worrying about.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 29, 2021, 11:14:20 AM
Any different than playing more selfish with a pro scout in the crowd?

I think 3 years after NIL becomes the norm in college, we will wonder what we were worrying about.


The gay marriage of college sports.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: moomoo on June 29, 2021, 11:24:05 AM
Marquette and other Big East schools will actually be in a better place with NIL.

Football Five schools need to "spread the money around" alot more.  They need to make sure the two tackles protecting the blue chip QB are properly paid.  This may annoy the second string wide receiver who wants more.  Then, the safety who isnt flashy, but very effective, gets disgruntled.  It can become very challeneging to manage, and the expenses keep going up, because football is where the money is and where the alumni show the vast majority of the sport.

Meanwhile, the basketball players at the football school get annoyed that an offensive guard on the fball team is getting primetime interest while the hoops program is playing second fiddle.

You wont have any of this nonsense at Marquette.  Come here and you are primetime.  Period.  All the resources focus on the hoops players, every second, every promotion, every dollar.

And how many players will you really have to put resources behind in order to get a great team?  Three?  Five?  That's alot less players than the football schools need to make happy.

Lastly, Marquette will be an incredible option for football five hoops players who feel they are being ignored due to football emphasis. 

I am bullish on NIL, not only because I am happy these students can monetize their assets, but also because it will be very good for Marquette as it relates to getting the best talent.

Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Pakuni on June 29, 2021, 11:51:14 AM
Marquette and other Big East schools will actually be in a better place with NIL.

Football Five schools need to "spread the money around" alot more.  They need to make sure the two tackles protecting the blue chip QB are properly paid.  This may annoy the second string wide receiver who wants more.  Then, the safety who isnt flashy, but very effective, gets disgruntled.  It can become very challeneging to manage, and the expenses keep going up, because football is where the money is and where the alumni show the vast majority of the sport.

Why does nobody understand that the schools aren't the ones handing out NIL money?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 29, 2021, 11:57:32 AM
Why does nobody understand that the schools aren't the ones handing out NIL money?

Welcome to America
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: The Lens on June 29, 2021, 12:10:23 PM
I think what MooMoo is saying is many football schools have a limited number of booster centric firms who would be willing to invest in marketing around that U's athletes. 

At Auburn, all that money goes to football.  Whereas at MU and other Big Easts schools, that money will go to hoops.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: moomoo on June 29, 2021, 12:14:44 PM
I think what MooMoo is saying is many football schools have a limited number of booster centric firms who would be willing to invest in marketing around that U's athletes. 

At Auburn, all that money goes to football.  Whereas at MU and other Big Easts schools, that money will go to hoops.

Yes.  Thanks Lens.

And I will refrain from questioning why people couldn't comprehend this, and I will also refrain from casting aspersions against the wonderful citizenry of this great nation.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Pakuni on June 29, 2021, 12:29:59 PM
Yes.  Thanks Lens.

And I will refrain from questioning why people couldn't comprehend this, and I will also refrain from casting aspersions against the wonderful citizenry of this great nation.

With all due respect, moomoo, Lens' explanation isn't anything close to what you wrote. You literally wrote that "the schools need to spread money around" and listed scenarios  in which the schools had to make sure the effective safety was getting paid, how the football schools wouldn't have enough for the basketball team, etc.
The schools aren't going to decide who gets how much. The marketplace will.

Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Jockey on June 29, 2021, 12:32:10 PM
Why does nobody understand that the schools aren't the ones handing out NIL money?

You, Rico, and I (among others) have said this over and over. I love opinions that are different than mine (of course, they are wrong opinions :) ), but there is no excuse to post ignorantly about a subject. If someone wants to comment, it is easier on all of us that they have at least a basic understanding of what they are typing.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: moomoo on June 29, 2021, 12:56:57 PM
With all due respect, moomoo, Lens' explanation isn't anything close to what you wrote. You literally wrote that "the schools need to spread money around" and listed scenarios  in which the schools had to make sure the effective safety was getting paid, how the football schools wouldn't have enough for the basketball team, etc.
The schools aren't going to decide who gets how much. The marketplace will.

the schools, as faciliators to and conduits of the financial friends of the program, need to spread the money around

Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Pakuni on June 29, 2021, 01:43:31 PM
the schools, as faciliators to and conduits of the financial friends of the program, need to spread the money around

The schools won't be facilitators to nor conduits of NIL. These will be private agreements between the athlete and the sponsor, negotiated and administered independently of the schools.

In fact, involvement by a school likely would be an NCAA violation. Among the few rules so far is one that prohibits the sponsorship being dependent on the athletes' attendance at a particular school. Hard to argue it's not when the school itself is serving as "facilitator to and conduit of" the sponsorship. Bama isn't going to set up sponsorship deals for Auburn players, you know?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Newsdreams on June 29, 2021, 01:49:58 PM
the schools, as faciliators to and conduits of the financial friends of the program, need to spread the money around
They can't. Schools can't do that.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: moomoo on June 29, 2021, 01:50:14 PM
The schools won't be facilitators to nor conduits of NIL. These will be private agreements between the athlete and the sponsor, negotiated and administered independently of the schools.

In fact, involvement by a school likely would be an NCAA violation. Among the few rules so far is one that prohibits the sponsorship being dependent on the athletes' attendance at a particular school. Hard to argue it's not when the school itself is serving as "facilitator to and conduit of" the sponsorship. Bama isn't going to set up sponsorship deals for Auburn players, you know?

https://www.inflcr.com/2019/03/19/marquette-turns-to-inflcr-for-social-media-boost/

Sounds like Marquette is looking to facilitate

Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Newsdreams on June 29, 2021, 01:56:07 PM
https://www.inflcr.com/2019/03/19/marquette-turns-to-inflcr-for-social-media-boost/

Sounds like Marquette is looking to facilitate
Not in the way you think. Almost all young people know how to monetize internet or know what it takes. This would help with content if they're going to use something MU related. Big money will come from amount of followers and views leading to sponsors be it local /national
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: The Equalizer on June 29, 2021, 02:09:26 PM
Marquette and other Big East schools will actually be in a better place with NIL.

Football Five schools need to "spread the money around" alot more.  They need to make sure the two tackles protecting the blue chip QB are properly paid.  This may annoy the second string wide receiver who wants more.  Then, the safety who isnt flashy, but very effective, gets disgruntled.  It can become very challeneging to manage, and the expenses keep going up, because football is where the money is and where the alumni show the vast majority of the sport.

Meanwhile, the basketball players at the football school get annoyed that an offensive guard on the fball team is getting primetime interest while the hoops program is playing second fiddle.

You wont have any of this nonsense at Marquette.  Come here and you are primetime.  Period.  All the resources focus on the hoops players, every second, every promotion, every dollar.

And how many players will you really have to put resources behind in order to get a great team?  Three?  Five?  That's alot less players than the football schools need to make happy.

Lastly, Marquette will be an incredible option for football five hoops players who feel they are being ignored due to football emphasis. 

I am bullish on NIL, not only because I am happy these students can monetize their assets, but also because it will be very good for Marquette as it relates to getting the best talent.

Boosters at Football first programs (e.g. Alabama) will be fine if their basketball program declines to permanent second class status as long as football is protected.  Basketball first programs (e.g Kentucky) will find their boosters will protect their basketball investment at the expense of their also-ran football program. 

Do you really think someone in UK is going to worry about how to fairly split the NIL pie between basketball and football?

First off, as pointed out in other messages--the schools themselves aren't even involved--it's a direct relationship between the athlete and those willing to fund the athlete. 

And I think it's fair to observe that UK's big money boosters could care less about UK's perennially underperforming football program.    Basketball players will find plenty of NIL money at Kentucky, even though it also ostensibly has a football team.

So MU won't be the beneficiary of any mass exodus of talent from the football conferences.  Our big-money boosters will have to compete with counterparts at UK, Indiana, North Carolina, etc when it comes down to who is willing to fund NIL more. And I'm not bullish on our ability to compete vis-a-vis big state schools with large alumni populations.


Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: lawdog77 on June 29, 2021, 02:14:24 PM
Yes, schools won't be involved in lining up deals between the SA and businesses. Wink Wink.

The schools will have some say in the matter, as these deals still have some limitations (cant be deals to induce players to come to or stay at school, cant be against the mission of the school, cant be commission based on points scored, etc)
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: cheebs09 on June 29, 2021, 02:23:01 PM
Boosters at Football first programs (e.g. Alabama) will be fine if their basketball program declines to permanent second class status as long as football is protected.  Basketball first programs (e.g Kentucky) will find their boosters will protect their basketball investment at the expense of their also-ran football program. 

Do you really think someone in UK is going to worry about how to fairly split the NIL pie between basketball and football?

First off, as pointed out in other messages--the schools themselves aren't even involved--it's a direct relationship between the athlete and those willing to fund the athlete. 

And I think it's fair to observe that UK's big money boosters could care less about UK's perennially underperforming football program.    Basketball players will find plenty of NIL money at Kentucky, even though it also ostensibly has a football team.

So MU won't be the beneficiary of any mass exodus of talent from the football conferences.  Our big-money boosters will have to compete with counterparts at UK, Indiana, North Carolina, etc when it comes down to who is willing to fund NIL more. And I'm not bullish on our ability to compete vis-a-vis big state schools with large alumni populations.

Is that any different than now? The only thing is it is going straight to the players rather than facilities and salaries. However, I think most big donors probably earmark their money to a sport/cause.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Pakuni on June 29, 2021, 02:34:44 PM
https://www.inflcr.com/2019/03/19/marquette-turns-to-inflcr-for-social-media-boost/

Sounds like Marquette is looking to facilitate

Talk about shifting goalposts.
You started with schools "spreading the money around."
When shown to be wrong about that, you changed to "facilitators and conduits" for sponsorship deals.
When that was shown to also be wrong, you go to "give students access to a software program."
Is moomoo Chico's latest nom de plume?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: moomoo on June 29, 2021, 02:59:03 PM
Talk about shifting goalposts.
You started with schools "spreading the money around."
When shown to be wrong about that, you changed to "facilitators and conduits" for sponsorship deals.
When that was shown to also be wrong, you go to "give students access to a software program."
Is moomoo Chico's latest nom de plume?

Shifting goal posts?  That's not what I am about Pakuni, not looking to argue or cover my tracks, just looking to provide my thoughts on a program I love.

The blue bloods already have an advantage on us, so NIL doesn't hurt us with them.  How often were we gonna beat out Duke or Kentucky before NIL?

The football money schools (Alabama, Auburn, Texas, Oklahoma, etc.) allegedly would have more money in their sports program so inherently they had an advantage, yet we would often hold our own against them.  Having this new setup with NIL, in my opnion, doesn't hurt us because I believe the entire focus in those schools will be EVEN MORE on fball and taking care of the gazillion position players in that sport, and a basketball player may feel shortchanged going there.

Lastly, no one here knows wether or not Marquette will mention a few interested corporations to a player to help him generate income off of his NIL.  And no one knows exactly what the NCAA will allow or disallow going forward.  It really is the wild west (even our great conference commissioner suggested as such).

Marquette linking up with a company to help with a student's social media is only the beginning, in my opinion.  I believe that Marquette will invest heavily in presenting itself, within any rule structure, as THE place that helps (in particularly) basketball players maximize their NIL assets, as well as any other comprehensive, long term packages that will be allowed.

The example I use is if your large company has major tax compliance issues with several government agencies coming at you, do you hire the largest law firm with a smaller (but reputable) tax practice, or do you engage that smaller law firm with the best tax division that specializes specifically in exactly what your company is going through.

I think there will be a big market for young men and women in basketball to choose the specialized path.











Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Jay Bee on June 29, 2021, 05:22:49 PM
“It’s been quite a year for this young man. Not only is he averaging 23 points & 8 boards a game, but the sophomore power forward also boasts 14,000 Instagram followers & a lucrative deal with a regional car dealership!”
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: MU82 on July 04, 2021, 10:57:30 AM
Interesting AP article on how new NIL rules could affect elite gymnasts, and how much it would have helped their predecessors ...

https://apnews.com/article/college-sports-olympic-games-2020-tokyo-olympics-sports-6610e9d532d8d57f4cff3ec7dea958d0
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: rocket ALM surgeon on July 04, 2021, 07:39:56 PM
Interesting AP article on how new NIL rules could affect elite gymnasts, and how much it would have helped their predecessors ...

https://apnews.com/article/college-sports-olympic-games-2020-tokyo-olympics-sports-6610e9d532d8d57f4cff3ec7dea958d0

 michigan and michigan state athletes could then probably afford and choose their own doctors and bypassing the ole universal diagnostic finger in the butt exams
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: TAMU Eagle on July 04, 2021, 08:00:57 PM
michigan and michigan state athletes could then probably afford and choose their own doctors and bypassing the ole universal diagnostic finger in the butt exams

I know you're trying to be funny,  but you're not succeeding. Just being offensive
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Pakuni on July 04, 2021, 08:33:12 PM
I know you're trying to be funny,  but you're not succeeding. Just being offensive

Sex assault isn't funny?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: MU82 on July 04, 2021, 10:11:09 PM
Sex assault isn't funny?

What fun we had bustin' up about young athletes getting sexually assaulted! Woo-hoo ... fun times!
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: rocket ALM surgeon on July 04, 2021, 10:23:17 PM
I know you're trying to be funny,  but you're not succeeding. Just being offensive


Offensive??  To who?  The doctors who abused countless athletes over many years?  I wasn’t making light of sexual assault. I was bringing to light the fact that many people in position of power knew about these sexual assaults for years and did nothing about it, including 2 revered coaches, bo shembechler  and Tom izzo. Beyond shameful of these 2 “institutions of higher indoctrination”.  A little close to home?  Better check your doc there at            t A & M, eyna?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: TAMU Eagle on July 04, 2021, 11:04:44 PM

Offensive??  To who?

Rocket,

Would you go up to a victim of child sex abuse and make a crack about them getting a finger up the butt? If yes,  you're a monster.  If no, then own your $hit and apologize for making a joke in poor taste.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: JWags85 on July 04, 2021, 11:44:19 PM

Offensive??  To who?  The doctors who abused countless athletes over many years?  I wasn’t making light of sexual assault. I was bringing to light the fact that many people in position of power knew about these sexual assaults for years and did nothing about it, including 2 revered coaches, bo shembechler  and Tom izzo. Beyond shameful of these 2 “institutions of higher indoctrination”.  A little close to home?  Better check your doc there at            t A & M, eyna?

Come on man, you don’t actually believe that’s what you were doing in a flippant post…
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: MU82 on July 05, 2021, 08:05:01 AM

Offensive??  To who?  The doctors who abused countless athletes over many years?  I wasn’t making light of sexual assault. I was bringing to light the fact that many people in position of power knew about these sexual assaults for years and did nothing about it, including 2 revered coaches, bo shembechler  and Tom izzo. Beyond shameful of these 2 “institutions of higher indoctrination”.  A little close to home?  Better check your doc there at            t A & M, eyna?

Ask yourself this question:

"Would I have made that comment if my own daughter had been one of the sexual assault victims?"

If the answer is no, you know you shouldn't have made the comment.

If the answer is yes, seek help.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 05, 2021, 09:53:14 AM

Offensive??  To who?  The doctors who abused countless athletes over many years?  I wasn’t making light of sexual assault. I was bringing to light the fact that many people in position of power knew about these sexual assaults for years and did nothing about it, including 2 revered coaches, bo shembechler  and Tom izzo. Beyond shameful of these 2 “institutions of higher indoctrination”.  A little close to home?  Better check your doc there at            t A & M, eyna?


Why would you bring it up in the NIL topic?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: rocket ALM surgeon on July 05, 2021, 10:54:29 AM
this wasn't a joke-this was all documented and reported on. 

note the statement where kwiatkowski mentions not being able to afford medical care-

  "We were a poor working class family, and my parents were very worried about my future being able to pay for medical bills," Kwiatkowski said. "Bo promised my family that he would keep me safe, making sure I got the best medical treatment."

  in another article, kwiatkowski specifically asked bo about sais incident(s)

  Several football players notified Schembechler about Anderson's behavior, the report said. A member of the football team in the late 1970s told police he asked the coach “soon” after an exam, “What’s up with the finger in the butt treatment by Dr. Anderson?”

Schembechler told the player to "toughen up" according to the report, which does not provide any more detail about the incident or what police did with the information.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/wnba/bo-schembechlers-son-will-speak-about-team-doctors-sexual-abuse-fathers-failure-to-protect-him/ar-AAKSIb2


so you guys can get over your sanctimonious horse hockey.  all of your attacking the messengers is quite obvious to most here
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: TAMU Eagle on July 05, 2021, 11:10:40 AM
Rocket,

You could have said all that without making a joke about victims of child sex abuse "getting a finger up the butt".

Be a man.  Stop making excuses, own your $hit. Don't be a coward
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: rocket ALM surgeon on July 05, 2021, 11:19:39 AM
Rocket,

You could have said all that without making a joke about victims of child sex abuse "getting a finger up the butt".

Be a man.  Stop making excuses, own your $hit. Don't be a coward

it wasn't a joke!  it happened!  are you that dense?  and, not sure how old kwiatkowski was at the time, 18-19?  doesn't make it any less egregious.  regardless,  you can step back from the "child abuse" claims which is your way to try to denigrate me even more.  coward about what?  you guys live in a different world man.  this is/was going on within places where you work, you know, universities
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: TAMU Eagle on July 05, 2021, 11:41:28 AM
it wasn't a joke!  it happened!  are you that dense?  and, not sure how old kwiatkowski was at the time, 18-19?  doesn't make it any less egregious.  regardless,  you can step back from the "child abuse" claims which is your way to try to denigrate me even more.  coward about what?  you guys live in a different world man.  this is/was going on within places where you work, you know, universities

Rocket,

You included Michigan State while quoting a post about gymnastics. You were referencing Larry Nassar, a child rapist, in addition to what happened at Michigan. But you knew that,  you're just a coward whose trying to make himself the victim by refusing to take ownership for what he said.

Referring to what happened at Michigan and Michigan State as "the ole universal diagnostic finger up the butt exam" is insulting to the victims of those tragedies.  Victims that included girls younger than 13. That's not an opinion, just a truth. You want to talk about how tragic those events were?  Great.  You want to torch universities for their role in the cover up? I'm with you 100%. You want to talk about how NIL will give athletes more financial security which may lead to less abuse in the future? I'm on board.  Do it without insulting the victims.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 05, 2021, 12:00:54 PM
And you put it in the NIL topic. Which made no sense whatsoever.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: StillAWarrior on July 05, 2021, 12:01:20 PM
Rocket, when you find yourself in a hole you should quit digging.

Yes, we understand that "it" happened. It's really astounding that you don't understand that your comment was in extremely poor taste.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 05, 2021, 12:41:24 PM
He got what he wanted
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: brewcity77 on July 05, 2021, 12:47:20 PM
Rocket, when you find yourself in a hole you should quit digging.

When the only tool you own is a shovel...
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: rocket ALM surgeon on July 05, 2021, 06:56:36 PM

Why would you bring it up in the NIL topic?

 pay attention sully-do i gotta draw a picture for you and your sanctimonious buddies?   making money off their nil's or getting "paid to play" if you will, they will be able to afford their own doctors and not the larry nassars of the world

  "michigan and michigan state athletes could then probably afford and choose their own doctors and bypassing the ole universal diagnostic finger in the butt exam"

tamu-get over yourself
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 05, 2021, 07:47:50 PM
pay attention sully-do i gotta draw a picture for you and your sanctimonious buddies?   making money off their nil's or getting "paid to play" if you will, they will be able to afford their own doctors and not the larry nassars of the world

  "michigan and michigan state athletes could then probably afford and choose their own doctors and bypassing the ole universal diagnostic finger in the butt exam"

tamu-get over yourself


That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 05, 2021, 07:59:49 PM

That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

As someone told me a few weeks back when I said the same thing, just wait
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: TAMU Eagle on July 05, 2021, 09:04:06 PM
making money off their nil's or getting "paid to play" if you will, they will be able to afford their own doctors and not the larry nassars of the world

Ah, so you admit that you were referencing convicted child rapist Larry Nassar. So this whole thing:

not sure how old kwiatkowski was at the time, 18-19?  doesn't make it any less egregious.  regardless,  you can step back from the "child abuse" claims which is your way to try to denigrate me even more.

Was just more bull$hit and you once again trying to worm out of what you said instead of just owning that you made a joke in poor taste.

tamu-get over yourself

It's not about me Rocket. It's not even about you either, as you've proven time and time again that you are at a child's level when it comes to taking responsibility for your actions. It's about the fact that anywhere between 1 in 5 and 1 in 11 people in the United States experience child abuse in their lives. Assuming those stats apply to Scoopers, there are likely several regulars and dozens more readers who have experienced this kind of abuse. From having friends and family directly impacted by this, not to mention that I work to prevent this kind of stuff for a living, I know for a fact that they get plenty of comments/jokes equating child abuse and butt sex and at best it is draining, and at worst it is triggering. It's also about people who make those kind of jokes and have never really thought about the possible impact they can have on survivors and are open to hearing that perspective.

I know you think this is personal Rocket. I know because it is your go to defense anytime anyone challenges you on anything. "I didn't do anything wrong, they are just out to get me." Let me assure you, with me, it has nothing to do with you or your politics. It is because you repeatedly say problematic $hit and then refuse to take ownership for it. Remember when you posted about that lady from the View making a joke about the openly gay NFL player penetrating the end zone or something like that? I think your response was that someone needed to put a muzzle on her? Remember how no one disagreed with you and we all agreed that she said something stupid and deserved the shame coming her way? We're in a similar situation here, except instead of the joke being about one openly gay man having presumably consensual sex, it's about hundreds of children being molested by an adult. It's not about who said it, Rocket. It's about what was said. If Brew, Rocky, Sultan, Pakuni, Jockey, Goose, 4ever, 82, Topper, anyone said the same thing as you, they would've gotten the same response from me. I know you probably won't hear this, but I hope that you do.

I've said all I needed to on this and I don't want to drag down those who want to discuss NIL. If you want to continue over PM, please feel free to reach out.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: MUDPT on July 05, 2021, 09:29:24 PM
Using my NLI money to see a doctor instead of: A. doctor the university assigns B. the one my personal insurance covers, to avoid sexual abuse, is a strange take.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: rocket ALM surgeon on July 06, 2021, 08:25:24 AM
Using my NLI money to see a doctor instead of: A. doctor the university assigns B. the one my personal insurance covers, to avoid sexual abuse, is a strange take.

accountability?  doesn't sound like the athletes had too much say when they went to university docs.  i understand these guys/girls were young, naïve and beholden to an athletic dept with a sport they loved and had been working their whole lives to achieve greatness, but...didn't sound like anyone cared
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 06, 2021, 08:27:19 AM
accountability?  doesn't sound like the athletes had too much say when they went to university docs.  i understand these guys/girls were young, naïve and beholden to an athletic dept with a sport they loved and had been working their whole lives to achieve greatness, but...didn't sound like anyone cared


Right.  Which is an entirely separate issue that has been discussed in topics multiple times on this site.  But has nothing to do with NLI.  Student athletes aren't going to hire their own doctors - that's dumb.  Colleges and universities need to make sure their personnel aren't rapists. 
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on July 06, 2021, 01:02:34 PM
https://miami.rivals.com/news/american-top-team-plans-500-000-plus-nil-commitment-to-miami-players (https://miami.rivals.com/news/american-top-team-plans-500-000-plus-nil-commitment-to-miami-players)

Every single Miami football player will get $6k under this NIL agreement.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 06, 2021, 01:11:06 PM
https://miami.rivals.com/news/american-top-team-plans-500-000-plus-nil-commitment-to-miami-players (https://miami.rivals.com/news/american-top-team-plans-500-000-plus-nil-commitment-to-miami-players)

Every single Miami football player will get $6k under this NIL agreement.

So, the backup right guard won’t be jealous of the starting QB?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: JWags85 on July 06, 2021, 02:13:44 PM

Right.  Which is an entirely separate issue that has been discussed in topics multiple times on this site.  But has nothing to do with NLI.  Student athletes aren't going to hire their own doctors - that's dumb.  Colleges and universities need to make sure their personnel aren't rapists.

And its not like the doctors in question were hired due to cash strapped athletic departments.  They weren't going to shady low cost clinics run by financially strained universities and with NIL, its not like now compensated athletes are going to be running their own teams of doctors and trainers like an NBA star.  Just  :o :o :o all around
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: PointWarrior on July 06, 2021, 02:17:12 PM

No, he still will be jealous….


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/college/2021/07/02/deriq-king-miami-signs-nil-deals (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/college/2021/07/02/deriq-king-miami-signs-nil-deals)


So, the backup right guard won’t be jealous of the starting QB?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 06, 2021, 03:10:06 PM
No, he still will be jealous….


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/college/2021/07/02/deriq-king-miami-signs-nil-deals (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/college/2021/07/02/deriq-king-miami-signs-nil-deals)

Well, Miami is toast this year.  Cross them off the list
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: lawdog77 on July 06, 2021, 03:35:07 PM
Some nice walking around money he is making, although 20K in Miami could be a weekend's worth of fun. I don't see Lululemon's need to be sponsored by a college QB. Maybe when turns pro and has a true national audience.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: lawdog77 on July 06, 2021, 03:50:05 PM
More Miami
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31771563/dan-lambert-plans-500-month-endorsement-deal-every-miami-hurricanes-football-player-scholarship (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31771563/dan-lambert-plans-500-month-endorsement-deal-every-miami-hurricanes-football-player-scholarship)

Socialist.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on July 06, 2021, 04:10:17 PM
More Miami
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31771563/dan-lambert-plans-500-month-endorsement-deal-every-miami-hurricanes-football-player-scholarship (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31771563/dan-lambert-plans-500-month-endorsement-deal-every-miami-hurricanes-football-player-scholarship)

Socialist.

I amend my previous statement.  The Canes are back, baby!
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: MU82 on July 06, 2021, 04:57:28 PM
What are all y’all even talkin’ about? I thought this thread was about rocket putting fingers in his butt.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on July 06, 2021, 05:11:55 PM
What are all y’all even talkin’ about? I thought this thread was about rocket putting fingers in his butt.

Dealer, I'd like to double down.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: rocket ALM surgeon on July 07, 2021, 06:31:08 AM

Right.  Which is an entirely separate issue that has been discussed in topics multiple times on this site.  But has nothing to do with NLI.  Student athletes aren't going to hire their own doctors - that's dumb.  Colleges and universities need to make sure their personnel aren't rapists.

  do you have a work appointed doctor?  or can you choose the doctor you want to see for your own health issues?  if you can choose your own doctor, do you refer to this as "hiring" your doctor? fine, if it makes you feel big, but what i am saying is the nil will empower a student athlete to go outside the universities appointed docs.  it will allow them to choose(not hire) their own docs just as most everyone else does.  if he/she goes in for an appointment for say, a bad back, concussion or pneumonia, they don't all get the automatic pelvic exam.  if they do, they can question it and "fire" their doc as many like to refer to it and find one who has a different paradigm approach to medical care, not to mention bring about legal issues.  the stories we have been reading about seem to stray from the "standards of care" i am aware of.   the student athlete would then have the freedom, just as you and i,  to medical care without repercussions from the athletic departments they are beholden to should they question some of the modes of treatment

Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 07, 2021, 06:52:58 AM
  do you have a work appointed doctor?  or can you choose the doctor you want to see for your own health issues?  if you can choose your own doctor, do you refer to this as "hiring" your doctor? fine, if it makes you feel big, but what i am saying is the nil will empower a student athlete to go outside the universities appointed docs.  it will allow them to choose(not hire) their own docs just as most everyone else does.  if he/she goes in for an appointment for say, a bad back, concussion or pneumonia, they don't all get the automatic pelvic exam.  if they do, they can question it and "fire" their doc as many like to refer to it and find one who has a different paradigm approach to medical care, not to mention bring about legal issues.  the stories we have been reading about seem to stray from the "standards of care" i am aware of.   the student athlete would then have the freedom, just as you and i,  to medical care without repercussions from the athletic departments they are beholden to should they question some of the modes of treatment


They have that freedom already.  If their parents have medical insurance, it is likely a relatively inexpensive one.

The problems at Michigan and Michigan State had little to do with students not having the resources to see other doctors.  It had everything to do with systems in place to empower those doctors and face little consequence for their actions because people in power protected them.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: StillAWarrior on July 07, 2021, 07:25:29 AM

They have that freedom already.  If their parents have medical insurance, it is likely a relatively inexpensive one.

The problems at Michigan and Michigan State had little to do with students not having the resources to see other doctors.  It had everything to do with systems in place to empower those doctors and face little consequence for their actions because people in power protected them.

This. This is just an absolutely absurd argument that is being perpetuated only because rocket made a joke that was in extraordinarily poor taste and he doesn't have the decency to simply say mea culpa. I am not one who is perpetually offended and I often bemoan the "avoid offending anyone at all costs" culture. But when I read rocket's initial comment that derailed this thread, my reaction was, "Oh my God...did he really just say that?!"
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: lawdog77 on July 07, 2021, 09:26:58 AM
Attempt to get back on topic

Tracking NIL deals:

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/Name-Image-and-Likeness-NIL-deals-endorsements-tracker-list-college-football-basketball-gymnastics-167253980/#167253980_3 (https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/Name-Image-and-Likeness-NIL-deals-endorsements-tracker-list-college-football-basketball-gymnastics-167253980/#167253980_3)

https://michigan.rivals.com/news/nil-tracker-jace-howard-is-michigan-basketball-s-first-barstool-athlete- (https://michigan.rivals.com/news/nil-tracker-jace-howard-is-michigan-basketball-s-first-barstool-athlete-)
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: MUDPT on July 07, 2021, 11:37:40 AM
  do you have a work appointed doctor?  or can you choose the doctor you want to see for your own health issues?  if you can choose your own doctor, do you refer to this as "hiring" your doctor? fine, if it makes you feel big, but what i am saying is the nil will empower a student athlete to go outside the universities appointed docs.  it will allow them to choose(not hire) their own docs just as most everyone else does.  if he/she goes in for an appointment for say, a bad back, concussion or pneumonia, they don't all get the automatic pelvic exam.  if they do, they can question it and "fire" their doc as many like to refer to it and find one who has a different paradigm approach to medical care, not to mention bring about legal issues.  the stories we have been reading about seem to stray from the "standards of care" i am aware of.   the student athlete would then have the freedom, just as you and i,  to medical care without repercussions from the athletic departments they are beholden to should they question some of the modes of treatment

A self pay to a sports medicine physician, is at least $500/ visit. College students aren’t doing this.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: StillAWarrior on July 07, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
A self pay to a sports medicine physician, is at least $500/ visit. College students aren’t doing this.

And even if they did (they won't) they'd still have to get cleared by the team doctor. As Fluffy said, the athletes' finances had nothing to do with the disaster at UofM/MSU.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: The Lens on July 07, 2021, 12:36:00 PM
And even if they did (they won't) they'd still have to get cleared by the team doctor. As Fluffy said, the athletes' finances had nothing to do with the disaster at UofM/MSU.

Speaking of what did have to do with the disaster...

What the hell was wrong with so many people that

The Catholic Church looked the other way
The Boy Scouts of America looked the other way
The Big Ten* looked the other way

Individually you can make excuses.  Priests for example were deified in neighborhoods and you didn't question the church.  But the Boy Scouts?  Bo Schembechler not caring?  Was there a time when we just didn't see the severity of sexual assault of kids?

To me all of these add up to say much more about us as people than the particular institutions.

*5 schools with hidieous records
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on July 07, 2021, 12:48:43 PM
Because evil people found positions of power where their actions weren't questioned and/or were ignored.  And there were power structures (Catholic church, BSA and intercollegiate athletics) where people were conditioned not to question or confront people in those positions. 
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Pakuni on July 07, 2021, 12:53:55 PM
Because evil people found positions of power where their actions weren't questioned and/or were ignored.  And there were power structures (Catholic church, BSA and intercollegiate athletics) where people were conditioned not to question or confront people in those positions.

Also conditioned to put the well-being of the institution - the church, the university, the organization - above all else.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Lennys Tap on July 07, 2021, 02:01:23 PM
Also conditioned to put the well-being of the institution - the church, the university, the organization - above all else.

This.

Predators will go where they have access to potential victims - there’s no way to completely eliminate abuse. But once an institution go down the “covering up this stuff is in our self interest” path the number of victims expands exponentially.

Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: MU82 on July 17, 2021, 09:46:17 AM
From the AP:

Emmert: It is time to decentralize college sports

NCAA President Mark Emmert said Thursday the time is right to consider a decentralized and deregulated version of college sports, shifting power to conferences and campuses and reconsidering how schools are aligned.

Emmert said the recent Supreme Court ruling against the NCAA along with the lifting of restrictions on athletes monetizing their fame should be a catalyst to “rethink” what college sports is about.

In a 30-minute interview with a small group of reporters, Emmert stressed he was not putting forth a mandate or even a recommendation. But he laid out a vision for the future of college sports that puts fewer limitations on athletes and de-emphasizes the role of a national governing body like the NCAA, which was founded 115 years ago and oversees more than 450,000 students who play sports.

“When you have an environment like that it just forces us to think more about what constraints should be put in place ever on college athletes. And it should be the bare minimum,” Emmert said.

Emmert said the NCAA’s more than 1,100 member schools should consider a less homogenous approach to the way sports are governed and re-examine the current three division structure, which includes 355 Division I colleges.

The NCAA’s rules and regulations have long been criticized and court challenges have been mounting in recent years.

“We need to be ready to say, ‘Yeah, you know, for field hockey, field hockey is different than football. Wrestling is different than lacrosse,' and not get so hung up on having everything be the same,” said Emmert, who was president of LSU and the University of Washington before taking the NCAA job in 2010.

Sports serve different functions at different schools, Emmert said, and the NCAA needs to govern in a way that is more reflective of that. He added the NCAA should not shy away from the fact that a small percentage of athletes are using college sports as a path to professional sports.

“We need to embrace that,” he said. “And with NIL out there, we’re providing other opportunities around this whole notion of using college sports as a career launching pad.”
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on July 17, 2021, 12:42:43 PM
Does anybody listen to anything Emmert says at all?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Pakuni on July 17, 2021, 12:47:49 PM
Does anybody listen to anything Emmert says at all?

Very on brand for Emmert to throw his hands up in the air and try to make someone else responsible for doing the NCAA's job.
Not apples to apples, of course, but has there every been a sports commissioner as inept as Emmert? He makes Bud and Manfred look like savants.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: harryp on July 23, 2021, 08:57:01 PM
Unless there is a cap it looks like the money teams will dominate. get ready for TX.Would this mean that the woman's  swim team could do a Playboy team centerfold.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Herman Cain on August 22, 2021, 05:53:20 PM
Unless there is a cap it looks like the money teams will dominate. get ready for TX.Would this mean that the woman's  swim team could do a Playboy team centerfold.
Good question.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 22, 2021, 07:10:02 PM
Like I said, MU is in a world of hurt with NIL. Maybe da teem kould appear in a Skidoo commercial, aina?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: The Equalizer on August 26, 2021, 07:02:51 PM

http://kentsterling.com/2021/08/26/does-emoni-bates-commitment-to-memphis-violate-ncaa-nil-rules-if-so-does-it-matter/ (http://kentsterling.com/2021/08/26/does-emoni-bates-commitment-to-memphis-violate-ncaa-nil-rules-if-so-does-it-matter/)

My guess is that they wrote something into the NIL agreement that doesn't actually require Bates to attend Memphis, but would be nearly impossible to accomplish if he didn't.  Something like "you must be available for a meet-and-greet at our hospitality suite at the FedEx Forum following every University of Memphis Mens Basketball home game."   

Similar in concept to how Wisconsin lawmakers granted a tax exemption to Marquette, without actually giving a tax exemption to Marquette:

"Grounds of any incorporated college or university, not exceeding 150 acres, if the college or university satisfies all of the following criteria:
a. It is a nonprofit organization.
b. It was founded before January 1, 1900.
c. Its total annual undergraduate enrollment is at least 5,000 students, not including students receiving online instruction only."
 
NIL right now is an exercise in creativity.  It's time for MU to encourage local business partners to get creative.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Pakuni on August 26, 2021, 10:56:55 PM
If Bates has a deal with FedEx or anyone else, it also would violate Tennessee's NIL law, which states:
"Entities who support or benefit the institution or its athletic program may not compensate or cause compensation to be provided to a student-athlete or recruit if the compensation is contingent on the student-athlete’s enrollment or continued participation at an institution."
"An institution and its officers and employees may not be involved in the development, operation, or promotion of a current or prospective student-athlete’s NIL, including actions that compensate or cause compensation to be provided to student-athletes."

The law also states:
"Student-athletes obtaining NIL compensation must disclose any agreement and its terms to their institution and must file annual reports with the institution in a time and manner designated by the institution."

So, it would seem any deal Bates has would need to be disclosed to Memphis. And, as a public institution, that deal might be subject to Freedom of Information laws.
So, who's going to file the FOIA request?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 27, 2021, 07:52:53 AM
Very on brand for Emmert to throw his hands up in the air and try to make someone else responsible for doing the NCAA's job.
Not apples to apples, of course, but has there every been a sports commissioner as inept as Emmert? He makes Bud and Manfred look like savants.


In general I agree with you.  But he isn't wrong here.  The big conferences hold so much money and power that the NCAA is basically powerless when it comes to significant enforcement these days.  And he knows that.

I just don't think people care all that much any more.  If players are getting paid to go somewhere, the general public's reaction has gone from "shame on them" to "good for them!"  Amateurism just isn't considered an important value any longer.  (IMO....good)  Like this Bates' deal with FedEx?  I just can't get all that upset about it.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 27, 2021, 07:53:51 AM
Like I said, MU is in a world of hurt with NIL. Maybe da teem kould appear in a Skidoo commercial, aina?


Marquette will be fine.  95% of NIL money is going to go to the top players who Marquette wasn't landing anyway. 
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 27, 2021, 08:30:46 AM
Dat's my point. Gonna bee reely hard four Shaka ta bring inn da top playas. Da rich will get richa, aina?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 27, 2021, 08:33:36 AM
Dat's my point. Gonna bee reely hard four Shaka ta bring inn da top playas. Da rich will get richa, aina?


Outside of those living in our backyard, Marquette wasn't landing those guys anyway.  The one-and-done types were going elsewhere, spending one year, and moving on.  I am increasingly of the opinion, if you look at Baylor, Virginia and Villanova, that those aren't the players you build championships around.

Sure the run of the mill, top 150 player may get a nice NIL deal at UW-Madison, but IMO we can compete with that.  I'm not all that concerned.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: BLM on August 27, 2021, 08:38:38 AM
I'm happy players can profit off of their NIL.

Now I need an NCAA basketball game for PS5 ASAP.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 09, 2021, 12:46:58 PM
Well, well, well

https://twitter.com/danmurphyespn/status/1435984454850424832?s=21
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 09, 2021, 08:32:07 PM
If Bates has a deal with FedEx or anyone else, it also would violate Tennessee's NIL law, which states:
"Entities who support or benefit the institution or its athletic program may not compensate or cause compensation to be provided to a student-athlete or recruit if the compensation is contingent on the student-athlete’s enrollment or continued participation at an institution."
"An institution and its officers and employees may not be involved in the development, operation, or promotion of a current or prospective student-athlete’s NIL, including actions that compensate or cause compensation to be provided to student-athletes."

The law also states:
"Student-athletes obtaining NIL compensation must disclose any agreement and its terms to their institution and must file annual reports with the institution in a time and manner designated by the institution."

So, it would seem any deal Bates has would need to be disclosed to Memphis. And, as a public institution, that deal might be subject to Freedom of Information laws.
So, who's going to file the FOIA request?

You really think Memphis, the school that employed Cal and now Penny, hasn’t covered all of their bases to make sure the deal doesn’t violate Tennessee law…as far as anyone will ever be able to find out?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: MU82 on September 09, 2021, 09:49:06 PM
Well, well, well

https://twitter.com/danmurphyespn/status/1435984454850424832?s=21

This actually was predicted when NIL discussions first got serious more than a year ago. Volleyball players, gymnasts and others were predicted to do better than lots of football and basketball players.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 09, 2021, 11:35:46 PM
This actually was predicted when NIL discussions first got serious more than a year ago. Volleyball players, gymnasts and others were predicted to do better than lots of football and basketball players.

And, of course, it’s because of sexism and implied racism (isn’t everything these days though?).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/08/22/nil-deals-female-college-athletes/
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: TAMU Eagle on September 09, 2021, 11:54:17 PM
And, of course, it’s because of sexism and implied racism (isn’t everything these days though?).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/08/22/nil-deals-female-college-athletes/

Is that incorrect? Good for the students for taking advantage.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 10, 2021, 04:37:37 AM
This actually was predicted when NIL discussions first got serious more than a year ago. Volleyball players, gymnasts and others were predicted to do better than lots of football and basketball players.

Yup, but a lot of the Chicken Littles didn’t believe it
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: swoopem on September 10, 2021, 07:14:21 AM
If I was rich and wanted to start paying players could I ask for their Venmo’s and pay them claiming NIL?

Edit: when I get rich
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: rocket ALM surgeon on September 10, 2021, 07:44:34 AM
Like I said, MU is in a world of hurt with NIL. Maybe da teem kould appear in a Skidoo commercial, aina?

not to worry doc, another factor in the recruiting process just became, you may suck as a player, but if ya got a bod people want to jump the bones for, look good in yoga panties, the pay can be pretty good. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/08/22/nil-deals-female-college-athletes/
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on September 10, 2021, 09:12:28 AM
not to worry doc, another factor in the recruiting process just became, you may suck as a player, but if ya got a bod people want to jump the bones for, look good in yoga panties, the pay can be pretty good. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/08/22/nil-deals-female-college-athletes/
linking to fake news?  shame on you...stick to your guns.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 10, 2021, 09:51:37 AM
not to worry doc, another factor in the recruiting process just became, you may suck as a player, but if ya got a bod people want to jump the bones for, look good in yoga panties, the pay can be pretty good. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/08/22/nil-deals-female-college-athletes/

9.5 of 10 for the sexism
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: ChuckyChip on September 10, 2021, 12:51:59 PM
If I was rich and wanted to start paying players could I ask for their Venmo’s and pay them claiming NIL?

Edit: when I get rich

Yep. That's what former basketball walk on Mat Ishbia is doing at Michigan State.  His company, United Wholesale Mortgage, is going to pay every Spartan men's basketball and football player $500/month, in exchange for "marketing" his company on their social media pages.  That's 133 players being paid $6,000 per year each ($798,000 total).

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2021/09/08/michigan-state-football-men-basketball-stipends-mat-ishbia/5761440001/ (https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2021/09/08/michigan-state-football-men-basketball-stipends-mat-ishbia/5761440001/)
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: oldwarrior81 on September 10, 2021, 01:12:00 PM
I'm still sticking with the belief that LSU gymnast Livvy Dunne will out earn them all.
Possibly multi-million per year.

As far as I know, she's the only collegiate athlete to sign with WME (William Morris/Endeavor)
They represent a good number of NFL athletes, Matthew Stafford, Christian McCaffrey, DeAndre Hopkins

But their big hitters are in Hollywood and Musicians; Ben Affleck, Matt Damon, Jessica Alba, Kate Beckinsale, Hugh Jackman, Whoopie Goldberg, Jake Gyllenhaal, Adam Sandler, Eddie Vedder, Adele, Alicia Keys........
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on September 10, 2021, 01:29:24 PM
Yep. That's what former basketball walk on Mat Ishbia is doing at Michigan State.  His company, United Wholesale Mortgage, is going to pay every Spartan men's basketball and football player $500/month, in exchange for "marketing" his company on their social media pages.  That's 133 players being paid $6,000 per year each ($798,000 total).

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2021/09/08/michigan-state-football-men-basketball-stipends-mat-ishbia/5761440001/ (https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2021/09/08/michigan-state-football-men-basketball-stipends-mat-ishbia/5761440001/)

Much more cost effective to do this for a hoops team with 1/10th the # of players. Let's get it going!
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 10, 2021, 03:53:00 PM
not to worry doc, another factor in the recruiting process just became, you may suck as a player, but if ya got a bod people want to jump the bones for, look good in yoga panties, the pay can be pretty good. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/08/22/nil-deals-female-college-athletes/

exactly. Becca Ripley, a redshirt senior from UCF has averaged a solid .5 ppg over career in which she has played eight games...and has earned six figures for endorsement deals. https://www.instagram.com/beccaripley/?hl=en
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Uncle Rico on September 10, 2021, 04:00:56 PM
exactly. Becca Ripley, a redshirt senior from UCF has averaged a solid .5 ppg over career in which she has played eight games...and has earned six figures for endorsement deals. https://www.instagram.com/beccaripley/?hl=en

So?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 10, 2021, 04:12:14 PM
So?

nothing wrong with it, IMO. Proving Rocket's point (and I thought the WaPo editorial was ridiculous).
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: TAMU Eagle on September 10, 2021, 05:21:08 PM
nothing wrong with it, IMO. Proving Rocket's point (and I thought the WaPo editorial was ridiculous).

Why?
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 10, 2021, 06:06:44 PM
Why?

The girl is taking advantage of her assets and making money off of it. Just because some editorial writer doesn't like the fact attractive women are the biggest beneficiaries of NIL doesn't mean it's a horrible program. I found it amusing that the author kind of obscured the athletic feats of the Cavinder Twins and instead is acting shocked that businesses want to do business with attractive athletes, some of whom are quite good.

I worked with a kid, a mediocre, small college athlete who did a short Tik Tok video of himself shirtless, making a face while reciting a movie line. This happened during the shutdown. He left school to be in some Tik Tok house and now has 30 million followers and commands 12x more for a sponsored post than Tom Brady does and is getting his own clothing line. Sex sold there too. 
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 10, 2021, 06:13:21 PM
The girl is taking advantage of her assets and making money off of it. Just because some editorial writer doesn't like the fact attractive women are the biggest beneficiaries of NIL doesn't mean it's a horrible program. I found it amusing that the author kind of obscured the athletic feats of the Cavinder Twins and instead is acting shocked that businesses want to do business with attractive athletes, some of whom are quite good. What is she proposing, quotas for unattractive or athletes who don't have a traditional fit body?

I worked with a kid, a mediocre, small college athlete who did a short Tik Tok video of himself shirtless, making a face while reciting a movie line. This happened during the shutdown. He left school to be in some Tik Tok house and now has 30 million followers and commands 12x more for a sponsored post than Tom Brady does and is getting his own clothing line. Sex sold there too.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: JWags85 on September 10, 2021, 07:18:15 PM
exactly. Becca Ripley, a redshirt senior from UCF has averaged a solid .5 ppg over career in which she has played eight games...and has earned six figures for endorsement deals. https://www.instagram.com/beccaripley/?hl=en

Hers is even more surprising cause she has a under 8,000 followers.
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: TAMU Eagle on September 10, 2021, 08:03:01 PM
The girl is taking advantage of her assets and making money off of it. Just because some editorial writer doesn't like the fact attractive women are the biggest beneficiaries of NIL doesn't mean it's a horrible program. I found it amusing that the author kind of obscured the athletic feats of the Cavinder Twins and instead is acting shocked that businesses want to do business with attractive athletes, some of whom are quite good.

I worked with a kid, a mediocre, small college athlete who did a short Tik Tok video of himself shirtless, making a face while reciting a movie line. This happened during the shutdown. He left school to be in some Tik Tok house and now has 30 million followers and commands 12x more for a sponsored post than Tom Brady does and is getting his own clothing line. Sex sold there too.

You and I read different articles
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: Billy Hoyle on September 10, 2021, 08:10:57 PM
You and I read different articles


"Under the NCAA’s revamped name, image and likeness rules, these women can now take on paid endorsements. It’s just too bad so many brands want their new ambassadors to make pouty lips and wear a two-piece to secure the bag."

"Now that the free market has been unleashed, it would be great if companies recognized female athletes for their accomplishments, not just their physical assets. Early on, however, the new NIL marketplace has followed the same old script."


"Until men get paid to primp in front of the camera and women’s stock blows up thanks to big games on the court and not just bikini photo shoots, this is not equality. This is not empowerment. This is simply advertisers placing less value on female athletic achievement and more on sex appeal."
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: rocket ALM surgeon on September 10, 2021, 09:38:56 PM

"Under the NCAA’s revamped name, image and likeness rules, these women can now take on paid endorsements. It’s just too bad so many brands want their new ambassadors to make pouty lips and wear a two-piece to secure the bag."

"Now that the free market has been unleashed, it would be great if companies recognized female athletes for their accomplishments, not just their physical assets. Early on, however, the new NIL marketplace has followed the same old script."


"Until men get paid to primp in front of the camera and women’s stock blows up thanks to big games on the court and not just bikini photo shoots, this is not equality. This is not empowerment. This is simply advertisers placing less value on female athletic achievement and more on sex appeal."

chippendale dude plays lights out defense but can't score should be worth a few hundred K if only they'd go back to the tighty shorties, work up a little sweat...damn!
Title: Re: NCAA Might Lift All NIL Rules
Post by: TAMU Eagle on September 10, 2021, 11:20:32 PM

"Under the NCAA’s revamped name, image and likeness rules, these women can now take on paid endorsements. It’s just too bad so many brands want their new ambassadors to make pouty lips and wear a two-piece to secure the bag."

"Now that the free market has been unleashed, it would be great if companies recognized female athletes for their accomplishments, not just their physical assets. Early on, however, the new NIL marketplace has followed the same old script."


"Until men get paid to primp in front of the camera and women’s stock blows up thanks to big games on the court and not just bikini photo shoots, this is not equality. This is not empowerment. This is simply advertisers placing less value on female athletic achievement and more on sex appeal."

Where does the writer say its a horrible program like you claimed?