MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Mike Deane's Seat Belt on March 21, 2019, 05:35:20 PM
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Ok i think now is a good a time as any to start the discussion again
Who is available out there.
We need to make the move now. Forget the recruiting class. Time to clean house and end this fantasy.
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Ask Pakuni or Lenny who the top assistants are because that is the only coach we hire who succeeds at MU.
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I've never been one to say to fire wojo but cmon... hes gotta go
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Wojo.
He’s not going anywhere.
Yep team looks like crap. But Wojo isn’t going anywhere.
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I've never been one to say to fire wojo but cmon... hes gotta go
Yep
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Wojo.
He’s not going anywhere.
Yep team looks like crap. But Wojo isn’t going anywhere.
fans gotta stop putting up with this crap. stop showing up to games. let them know we ain't happy. stop donations. if this performance isn't the tipping point then I guess we are fine with a below average program
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I've never been one to say to fire wojo but cmon... hes gotta go
can’t wait to see who we get...who do you suggest?
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can’t wait to see who we get...who do you suggest?
The guy coaching against us might be a nice start.
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can’t wait to see who we get...who do you suggest?
Ners!
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can’t wait to see who we get...who do you suggest?
Can we get Buzz back?
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Put lavin in there at this point who cares. Wojo is not a winner
For all the supporters. What is your final straw? Two more winless tourney appearances? Miss the tourney next year???? Recruiting violation????
Where does it end and why not now
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I like Woj, but he still doesn't have a tangible victory at MU, and next year Sam Hauser and Howard will be seniors. That's a problem. I'm not advocating he goes by any means. In another sense, if he took the UCLA job (I doubt he would), I wouldn't be upset about it either (if that makes sense).
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Bring back buzz or bring on wardle. Wojo sucks.
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Can we get Buzz back?
Why, to get us back on the police blotter and front page of the Tribune, trouble with NCAA, etc.? Besides, he only coaches at football schools.
Who else you got? I hear lots of fire him, who is the replacement?
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Fire Wojo.
For real. Was 0 NCAA wins in 5 years part of the powerpoint?
But for reals, we can secure a record tonight. Biggest loss by a 5 in a 12-5 upset in history.
https://herosports.com/ncaa-tournament/12-5-seed-upsets-margin-victory-ahah
This is embarrassing.
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fans gotta stop putting up with this crap. stop showing up to games. let them know we ain't happy. stop donations. if this performance isn't the tipping point then I guess we are fine with a below average program
Agree, I’m done with buying season tickets next year. It’s too bad, I really feel like we’ve been wasting sams talent If we had a proper point guard and some athleticism, it could have been a decent team
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The guy coaching against us might be a nice start.
Ah yes, the flavor of the month candidate. Last year it was everyone here saying Loyola Chicago coach. Classic
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I like Woj, but he still doesn't have a tangible victory at MU, and next year Sam Hauser and Howard will be seniors. That's a problem. I'm not advocating he goes by any means. In another sense, if he took the UCLA job (I doubt he would), I wouldn't be upset about it either (if that makes sense).
I'm carrying a sledgehammer to bash Wojo with but I believe we beat #1 Villanova two years ago. That was tangible.
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The way i see it, the university values character and program cleanliness over tournament results. nothing will change. wojo will be here for a long time. not saying that's bad by any means, but we're not kentucky or memphis.
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He’s not going anywhere and that sucks for all of us. No excuse for this at all. So. Bad. Bring on Oats or Hurley or someone. This is awful!
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The guy coaching against us might be a nice start.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/NtqxUKeDLe07K/giphy.gif)
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Fire Wojo.
For real. Was 0 NCAA wins in 5 years part of the powerpoint?
But for reals, we can secure a record tonight. Biggest loss by a 5 in a 12-5 upset in history.
https://herosports.com/ncaa-tournament/12-5-seed-upsets-margin-victory-ahah
This is embarrassing.
I know for sure you were a holdout on the Wojo bandwagon along with skianth and myself (and some others) and we all took a lot of sh*t for it. He still hasn’t proven anything of his worth. Them’s the facts
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He get's 1 more year, if he can't win with Howard and Hauser as seniors he will never win.
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Agree, I’m done with buying season tickets next year. It’s too bad, I really feel like we’ve been wasting sams talent If we had a proper point guard and some athleticism, it could have been a decent team
Ah, there is a real MU fan!! You show them who is boss. Don’t support the team, or a top 20 team coming back...let’s get super emotional and cancel those tickets.
I’d call right now. 1-414-288-GOMU
Make sure they know now you are bailing.
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fire him next year after our 2 best players graduate
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I know for sure you were a holdout on the Wojo bandwagon along with skianth and myself (and some others) and we all took a lot of sh*t for it. He still hasn’t proven anything of his worth. Them’s the facts
Yeah, I thought we had turned a corner this year, but clearly that was the exception to the rule.
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Put lavin in there at this point who cares. Wojo is not a winner
For all the supporters. What is your final straw? Two more winless tourney appearances? Miss the tourney next year???? Recruiting violation????
Where does it end and why not now
Simple. We are back in the tournament, will be again next year. I expect to be better next year.
Final straw is when we don’t go to the NCAAs multiple years or NCAA violations. Until then, looking forward to next year since no one has any real alternatives and just wants to pout today.
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Simple. We are back in the tournament, will be again next year. I expect to be better next year.
Final straw is when we don’t go to the NCAAs multiple years or NCAA violations. Until then, looking forward to next year since no one has any real alternatives and just wants to pout today.
Were 0-2 in the past 5 years. What more do you want?
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On a side note why the hell was the band playing ring out ahoya at the buzzer. The losing team on a neutral court should go out with a whimper.
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They’ll be back in the tournament again next year. Don’t think MU gets rid of a coach who has made tourney 3/4 years. Think he has at least two more years here.
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Were 0-2 in the past 5 years. What more do you want?
Unleash, both Cain and Heldt were DNPs (or did they get in at the end, I stopped paying attention). What a great way to sent off your tear-inducing senior. WTF.
That 2nd half was the worst coached POS I've ever seen.
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They’ll be back in the tournament again next year. Don’t think MU gets rid of a coach who has made tourney 3/4 years. Think he has at least two more years here.
Depends on his recruiting class for 2020 in all honesty
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Unleash, both Cain and Heldt were DNPs (or did they get in at the end, I stopped paying attention). What a great way to sent off your tear-inducing senior. WTF.
That 2nd half was the worst coached POS I've ever seen.
They were in at the end.
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Ah, there is a real MU fan!! You show them who is boss. Don’t support the team, or a top 20 team coming back...let’s get super emotional and cancel those tickets.
I’d call right now. 1-414-288-GOMU
Make sure they know now you are bailing.
That’s the great thing about America Jamie, I can choose how, when, and where I want to spend my money. I became a season ticket holder in Wojos 2nd year. I’ve donated, went to every game I could (even the crummy non conference ones) gave my tickets away for free to multiple people in this forum.
If you want to call me a fake fan, or emotional, how about this, f**k you.
I choose not to support 2 million a year for this bs.
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Wojo.
He’s not going anywhere.
Yep team looks like crap. But Wojo isn’t going anywhere.
You're right, though, I think if next season's team flames out again, the torches and pitch forks will be out and the pressure may be insurmountable.
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Were 0-2 in the past 5 years. What more do you want?
Stop with the five year nonsense. We rebuilt the first few years. Buzzard left a poor team behind. If you cannot see improvement from last year to this year, then you are blind.
What do I want? A stable program without internet fans wanting a guy fired every 3 years and then wondering why we have no stability. That’s what I want.
Fun season, major improvement and on to next season with a better roster. I’ll keep supporting the name in the front of the jersey...thanks
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I withheld judgment until year five (5) of the Wojo era is in the books.
Fire Wojo.
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Stop with the five year nonsense. We rebuilt the first few years. Buzzard left a poor team behind. If you cannot see improvement from last year to this year, then you are blind.
What do I want? A stable program without internet fans wanting a guy fired every 3 years and then wondering why we have no stability. That’s what I want.
Fun season, major improvement and on to next season with a better roster. I’ll keep supporting the name in the front of the jersey...thanks
What did vt leave that mu did not. Stop making these excuses. Buzz rebuilt his team winners (from nothing) wojo was king of the hill... couldn't get crap done.
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Unleash, both Cain and Heldt were DNPs (or did they get in at the end, I stopped paying attention). What a great way to sent off your tear-inducing senior. WTF.
That 2nd half was the worst coached POS I've ever seen.
They both played. I guess you turned your back on the team and didn’t watch the end so you could make a point that turned out to be really bad and 100% wrong. WTF.
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Cheeks
I think you are flat out wrong on status of program. It is light years from being prime time.
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Stop with the five year nonsense. We rebuilt the first few years. Buzzard left a poor team behind. If you cannot see improvement from last year to this year, then you are blind.
What do I want? A stable program without internet fans wanting a guy fired every 3 years and then wondering why we have no stability. That’s what I want.
Fun season, major improvement and on to next season with a better roster. I’ll keep supporting the name in the front of the jersey...thanks
Listen, everyone knows he's not going to get fired this year, but this was the absolute floor of what this team should have accomplished this year.
If we don't win multiple games in the NCAA tournament next year Wojo needs to be gone.
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Unleash, both Cain and Heldt were DNPs (or did they get in at the end, I stopped paying attention). What a great way to sent off your tear-inducing senior. WTF.
That 2nd half was the worst coached POS I've ever seen.
Worst part is playing Heldt would’ve actually helped. He’s a veteran player who stays home defensively and boxes out. Nice job Woj
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They both played. I guess you turned your back on the team and didn’t watch the end so you could make a point that turned out to be really bad and 100% wrong. WTF.
Oh, I had the game on but was too deep into my bottle of whisky to make out who was giving up uncontested bunnies under the basket.
Glad he game them some garbage time. But maybe he should have tried something different at, oh I don't know, 17:00 minutes left in the 2nd half when there was still a chance to win the game....
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That’s the great thing about America Jamie, I can choose how, when, and where I want to spend my money. I became a season ticket holder in Wojos 2nd year. I’ve donated, went to every game I could (even the crummy non conference ones) gave my tickets away for free to multiple people in this forum.
If you want to call me a fake fan, or emotional, how about this, f**k you.
I choose not to support 2 million a year for this bs.
That is correct, and I encourage that free speech and whatever you wish to do. I didn’t realize the $2M was funded by you, but I do appreciate the investment. You are not a fake fan, passionate like others. You are balanced, too, which I like.
I mean it, call and cancel them now. What better time then the present and set the tone I say. Let them know how you feel. Why wait? Seriously, I don’t understand why anyone would wait...stay true to your convictions.
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Nate Oates
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Cheeks
I think you are flat out wrong on status of program. It is light years from being prime time.
Where did I say prime time?
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I kinda like how hurley is on the court. I think he would be a great option.
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What did vt leave that mu did not?
Trump card.
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Yeah, Wojo isn't close to being fired. Have to look at the whole season, not just the end.
That being said, no overlooking the sh*t sandwich that was the last 7 games. Raises some huge red flags. Gotta address them over the offseason. Defense was the bugaboo last season and it got fixed over the summer. Let's see what he fixes this offseason.
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Simple. We are back in the tournament, will be again next year. I expect to be better next year.
Final straw is when we don’t go to the NCAAs multiple years or NCAA violations. Until then, looking forward to next year since no one has any real alternatives and just wants to pout today.
Truth is often times in the middle.
If Howard stays Marquette can be as good or better next year. They would take a big step back without. No word yet on that.
Wojo after 5 years:
2 NCAA appearances, 0 NCAA wins, 2 top 5 regular season league finishes, 0 conference tourney finals. He’s keeping his job but people aren’t thrilled.
Team needs better ball handling, better passing, more lateral quickness at both ends.
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I kinda like how hurley is on the court. I think he would be a great option.
Ask Pakuni and Lenny, we can only get assistants so that won’t work. What assistants do you have on the radar...cannot wait to hear the options.
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I still have high hopes for next season. If it doesn't pan out (not sure what would be deemed a success), then the coach should go.
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Yeah, Wojo isn't close to being fired. Have to look at the whole season, not just the end.
That being said, no overlooking the sh*t sandwich that was the last 7 games. Raises some huge red flags. Gotta address them over the offseason. Defense was the bugaboo last season and it got fixed over the summer. Let's see what he fixes this offseason.
The whole season comes down to the NCAA. 0-1. Just like two years ago. The two best years of the Wojo tenure.
But hey, if you think progress is taking the biggest loss as a 5 seed since 1991 then more power to you.
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That is correct, and I encourage that free speech and whatever you wish to do. I didn’t realize the $2M was funded by you, but I do appreciate the investment. You are not a fake fan, passionate like others. You are balanced, too, which I like.
I mean it, call and cancel them now. What better time then the present and set the tone I say. Let them know how you feel. Why wait? Seriously, I don’t understand why anyone would wait...stay true to your convictions.
Never said I donated 2 million. My point is with the resources that MU provides because of fans/donors, this is unacceptable to me.
I have seats 2 rows above the bottom row in the top section of the fiserv. My donations are nothing compared to some on here. This isn’t a d*** measuring contest, just simply stating I can’t continue to purchase season tickets with the product that is being put on the floor.
Has nothing to do with how I feel about the players. I love the kids that are representing MU, this is strictly a coaching issue with me
I apologize about swearing at you.
Be good
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Never said I donated 2 million. My point is with the resources that MU provides because of fans/donors, this is unacceptable to me.
I have seats 2 rows above the bottom row in the top section of the fiserv. My donations are nothing compared to some on here. This isn’t a d*** measuring contest, just simply stating I can’t continue to purchase season tickets with the product that is being put on the floor.
Has nothing to do with how I feel about the players. I love the kids that are representing MU, this is strictly a coaching issue with me
I apologize about swearing at you.
Be good
You too, all good. People are going to be emotional...I get it.
Peace
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I don't see a contract extension for Wojo. He's got next year to do something besides getting blown out in the 1st round.
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Were 0-2 in the past 5 years. What more do you want?
Also blown the hell out in both those games. Just outclassed in all aspects
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The whole season comes down to the NCAA. 0-1. Just like two years ago. The two best years of the Wojo tenure.
But hey, if you think progress is taking the biggest loss as a 5 seed since 1991 then more power to you.
I think progress is being a 5 seed after being in the NIT the season before. Especially when you are set to retain most of your roster and add players like McEwen and Elliott in the offseason.
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We aren't going to fire him but my confidence is gone.
This season was nice but not that great. Unranked finish, 2nd place in an average conference, and the end of the year we were just playing ugly. Turnovers, lots of fast breaks against us, poor rebounding, and just didnt seem to have a good gameplan. Getting killed in the tournament is not fun.
Next year we will be better but so will everyone else.
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Can't wait to hear what wojo says after this fiasco
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Why waste another year? Year 5 is over, and there is no meaningful success. Pull the plug. Get a new coach, sans PowerPoint.
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The whole season comes down to the NCAA. 0-1. Just like two years ago. The two best years of the Wojo tenure.
But hey, if you think progress is taking the biggest loss as a 5 seed since 1991 then more power to you.
No, actually the whole season doesn’t come down to it. If so, why do you bother watching any regular season games? Why do we play in a conference and compete for conference titles? No, in fact the WHOLE season doesn’t come down to it at all.
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He get's 1 more year, if he can't win with Howard and Hauser as seniors he will never win.
One more year, some old BS! One more year will not change a thing. Wojo now has a new label, “one and done”.
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Brain wardle put up more of a fight against #2 Michigan st then wojo did with murray state. The 5 years has been judged and hes received a unnatural carnal knowledgeing f
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Why waste another year? Year 5 is over, and there is no meaningful success. Pull the plug. Get a new coach, sans PowerPoint.
Candidates please...who?
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No, actually the whole season doesn’t come down to it. If so, why do you bother watching any regular season games? Why do we play in a conference and compete for conference titles? No, in fact the WHOLE season doesn’t come down to it at all.
I agree with you. The NCAA is not the only judge. But what did we accomplish? An unranked finish? 2nd place in the worst big east since mu has joined? A first round exit in the ncaa?
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I think progress is being a 5 seed after being in the NIT the season before. Especially when you are set to retain most of your roster and add players like McEwen and Elliott in the offseason.
I'd rather lose by 20 as a 12 seed than as a 5. Being a 5 actually made this worse.
And FFS, can we PLEASE leave off with the "help is coming next year"? I've been hearing that refrain for four years. This year's team had a BE POY and 1st team AA, a 2 team BE selection, a multi-week BE FOW, a 21 year old 4-star "freshman" and a 4-star transfer PF. Not to mention a bunch of three-star depth.
Any decent varsity HS coach could have led this team to a 20 pt first round loss.
That second half was the worst coached half of college basketball I have ever season. I don't know if Wojo was just blinded by the lights or gave up or what. But it was completely uninspired.
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If promoting Stan meant keeping all our players and recruits I wouldnt cry over that
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Truth is often times in the middle.
If Howard stays Marquette can be as good or better next year. They would take a big step back without. No word yet on that.
Wojo after 5 years:
2 NCAA appearances, 0 NCAA wins, 2 top 5 regular season league finishes, 0 conference tourney finals. He’s keeping his job but people aren’t thrilled.
Team needs better ball handling, better passing, more lateral quickness at both ends.
Better ball handling, yes with McEwen and Elliott.
Better passing, see above.
Quickness, not with Joey and Sam.
Team needs a guy built like Morrow, who can fight for rebounds and not get fouls every game. Can actually face the basket and take a shot. An enforcer forward because offensive rebounding blows. MU lost out on that Hassan French kid who went to St. Louis, so someone like him.
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One more year, some old BS! One more year will not change a thing. Wojo now has a new label, “one and done”.
Bingo. Next year is a waste.
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No, actually the whole season doesn’t come down to it. If so, why do you bother watching any regular season games? Why do we play in a conference and compete for conference titles? No, in fact the WHOLE season doesn’t come down to it at all.
I watch those games because they affect our making and seeding in the NCAA tournament, the latter which *should* affect our likelihood of NCAA success.
A conference title in a nice little milestone along the way, but if we want conference titles let's pack our bags and move to the Horizon league. We play in the big team because we want the big time success. Which is NCAA success.
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I think progress is being a 5 seed after being in the NIT the season before. Especially when you are set to retain most of your roster and add players like McEwen and Elliott in the offseason.
Is it still progressing is you are blown out of the gym by a 12 seed? Looks more like a seeding issue to me.
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Stop with the five year nonsense. We rebuilt the first few years. Buzzard left a poor team behind. If you cannot see improvement from last year to this year, then you are blind.
What do I want? A stable program without internet fans wanting a guy fired every 3 years and then wondering why we have no stability. That’s what I want.
Fun season, major improvement and on to next season with a better roster. I’ll keep supporting the name in the front of the jersey...thanks
Marquette fans havent gone full “fire the coach” in 20 years. Stop this straw man. This isn’t the reason we don’t have stability.
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I watch those games because they affect our making and seeding in the NCAA tournament, the latter which *should* affect our likelihood of NCAA success.
A conference title in a nice little milestone along the way, but if we want conference titles let's pack our bags and move to the Horizon league. We play in the big team because we want the big time success. Which is NCAA success.
Great response. The regular season matters only as to how it impacts the NCAA Tournament.
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One more year, some old BS! One more year will not change a thing. Wojo now has a new label, “one and done”.
That was coach K’s nickname, too. Having not won a single NCAA game his first 9 years of coaching, including first four at Duke. In year five as a 3 seed he finally got one and went 1-1.
Now, before someone says I am comparing...I am not...my point is there are many coaches through history that people wanted to bury that did just fine, and others that started out a house on fire and regressed.
He will be the coach next year unless he leaves on his own, which of course we love pushing coaches to leave so that would ‘t be surprising either.
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Also blown the hell out in both those games. Just outclassed in all aspects
South Carolina went to Final Four and it was a two possession game with under 10 to play. Let’s see how far Murray State goes.
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Marquette fans havent gone full “fire the coach” in 20 years. Stop this straw man. This isn’t the reason we don’t have stability.
When you consider the money Wojo is being paid, I expect better, much better!
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I'd rather lose by 20 as a 12 seed than as a 5. Being a 5 actually made this worse.
And FFS, can we PLEASE leave off with the "help is coming next year"? I've been hearing that refrain for four years. This year's team had a BE POY and 1st team AA, a 2 team BE selection, a multi-week BE FOW, a 21 year old 4-star "freshman" and a 4-star transfer PF. Not to mention a bunch of three-star depth.
Any decent varsity HS coach could have led this team to a 20 pt first round loss.
That second half was the worst coached half of college basketball I have ever season. I don't know if Wojo was just blinded by the lights or gave up or what. But it was completely uninspired.
. And each year we have gotten better, so the help did come and did make us better. Yes?
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When you consider the money Wojo is being paid, I expect better, much better!
How much is he being paid...i’m Guessing 99.99% here have no idea but just make that statement.
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If promoting Stan meant keeping all our players and recruits I wouldnt cry over that
So Stan isn’t part of game planning? Isn’t part of the in game coaching you hate? Interesting
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. And each year we have gotten better, so the help did come and did make us better. Yes?
Well presumably going from NCAA in year 3 to NIT in year 4 was a step backwards.
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Simple. We are back in the tournament, will be again next year. I expect to be better next year.
Final straw is when we don’t go to the NCAAs multiple years or NCAA violations. Until then, looking forward to next year since no one has any real alternatives and just wants to pout today.
If you're already looking forward to next year on the first day of the tournament, well, I think that says enough about Wojo and the program he's built. This is the time of year when the good teams shine. This is what the whole season builds to. To brush off this embarrassing of a loss and just point to next year... I really hope that's not what MU basketball is becoming.
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Unleash, both Cain and Heldt were DNPs (or did they get in at the end, I stopped paying attention). What a great way to sent off your tear-inducing senior. WTF.
That 2nd half was the worst coached POS I've ever seen.
Don't believe Cain played at all, but Cam did. ESPN boxscore confirmed Cain a DNP.
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Where did I say prime time?
Go take a bath in your slop of mediocrity. It seems to offend you when others don’t share your brand of apathy.
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Marquette fans havent gone full “fire the coach” in 20 years. Stop this straw man. This isn’t the reason we don’t have stability.
Oh yes we have. Point stands, our coaches leave on average at the 5 year mark the last 35 years....either fired or they leave on their own. Not good for stability, but I’m sure a stellar assistant waits in the wings.
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Don't believe Cain played at all, but Cam did. ESPN boxscore confirmed Cain a DNP.
Good thing we never tried to press, wouldn't want to tire out the legs of that short bench...
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Better ball handling, yes with McEwen and Elliott.
Better passing, see above.
Quickness, not with Joey and Sam.
Team needs a guy built like Morrow, who can fight for rebounds and not get fouls every game. Can actually face the basket and take a shot. An enforcer forward because offensive rebounding blows. MU lost out on that Hassan French kid who went to St. Louis, so someone like him.
You are assuming Howard stays? I will agree re: McEwen and Elliott. But would need Howard as well to improve.
French is good, much better offensive skill set than Theo, more athletic. Also a bad free throw shooter similar to Theo.
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Don't believe Cain played at all, but Cam did. ESPN boxscore confirmed Cain a DNP.
Cain was in.
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When will Wojo replace Coach K? That is when he will leave. MU, like the commercial, loves just OK.
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Well presumably going from NCAA in year 3 to NIT in year 4 was a step backwards.
Presumably going from NIT to NCAA is an improvement, but you said it wasn’t. You seem to be fighting your own logic on that one.
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Truth is often times in the middle.
If Howard stays Marquette can be as good or better next year. They would take a big step back without. No word yet on that.
Wojo after 5 years:
2 NCAA appearances, 0 NCAA wins, 2 top 5 regular season league finishes, 0 conference tourney finals. He’s keeping his job but people aren’t thrilled.
Team needs better ball handling, better passing, more lateral quickness at both ends.
Is a top 5 league finish really something worth noting? Top 2 or 3, maybe. But top 5? Not exactly a high bar.
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Well presumably going from NCAA in year 3 to NIT in year 4 was a step backwards.
No, that's not how it works. By that logic all coaches would get to a point where they only way they avoid a "step backwards". You have to work within the realities of a roster. Year 4 was a rebuilding year, always was going to be a rebuilding year. We lost three starters to graduation, most programs that do that don't have as good of a season the following year. Despite it being a rebuilding year, we were in the bubble conversation all season. Wojo's first year was a rebuilding year too, they had a losing record. That's progress.
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If you're already looking forward to next year on the first day of the tournament, well, I think that says enough about Wojo and the program he's built. This is the time of year when the good teams shine. This is what the whole season builds to. To brush off this embarrassing of a loss and just point to next year... I really hope that's not what MU basketball is becoming.
It’s actually the time of year where some good teams shine, some lose, etc, some escape, others do not. Madness.
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Go take a bath in your slop of mediocrity. It seems to offend you when others don’t share your brand of apathy.
I don’t call going to the NCAA tournament mediocrity, meanwhile I have simply asked those that want to fire him...who is the replacement.
Candidates please?
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Presumably going from NIT to NCAA is an improvement, but you said it wasn’t. You seem to be fighting your own logic on that one.
I didn't say we aren't better this year than last. But quoting you
each year we have gotten better
How is going from the NCAA to year three to the NIT in year four "getting better"?
Wojo's tenure hasn't been a linear progression, and after 5 years this is what he has:
114–82 (.582) Overeall 52–56 (.481) BE 0-2 NCAA 2-1 NIT.
Is that what was on the powerpoint?
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I think progress is being a 5 seed after being in the NIT the season before. Especially when you are set to retain most of your roster and add players like McEwen and Elliott in the offseason.
Adding elliot is a far cry from making a tourney run. Hes no better than a sacar or bailey. We need another true nba level player again. Juco transfer or not. We put a lot of players in the league during the buzz era and quite a few more that had their shots and didnt pan out
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Don't believe Cain played at all, but Cam did. ESPN boxscore confirmed Cain a DNP.
ESPN is wrong. He played. 2 minutes official box score
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It’s actually the time of year where some good teams shine, some lose, etc, some escape, others do not. Madness.
Had we lost on some circus 3 at the buzzer fine. That's the madness. Hell, had we even shown some semblance of a pulse in the 2nd half maybe it would be ok. But we were dead from the moment they made that first basket in the second half. Absolutely embarrassing.
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I don’t call going to the NCAA tournament mediocrity, meanwhile I have simply asked those that want to fire him...who is the replacement.
Candidates please?
what coach wouldn't be lining up to take a job where the previous coach won 84 games in the previous 4 years, went to 2 NCAA tournaments, had his team ranked in the top 10 late in the season and was fired? It's the kind of situation every coach dreams of being in.
Let's bring in Jon Harris to work with our bigs. Shake up the assistant ranks.
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That’s the great thing about America Jamie, I can choose how, when, and where I want to spend my money. I became a season ticket holder in Wojos 2nd year. I’ve donated, went to every game I could (even the crummy non conference ones) gave my tickets away for free to multiple people in this forum.
If you want to call me a fake fan, or emotional, how about this, f**k you.
I choose not to support 2 million a year for this bs.
Jams
The Pilot is right. In America we vote with our wallet.
A couple weeks ago, I spent well north of a G to see MU lose to Georgetown. I won't do that again (But I will go back for MS III)
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I'd rather lose by 20 as a 12 seed than as a 5. Being a 5 actually made this worse.
That doesn't make sense to me. So you'd rather of us had been bad all season?
And FFS, can we PLEASE leave off with the "help is coming next year"? I've been hearing that refrain for four years. This year's team had a BE POY and 1st team AA, a 2 team BE selection, a multi-week BE FOW, a 21 year old 4-star "freshman" and a 4-star transfer PF. Not to mention a bunch of three-star depth.
That wasn't me saying "we didn't have good enough players, help is coming." We had good enough players to win with this season. I'm saying we will have even better players next season.
Any decent varsity HS coach could have led this team to a 20 pt first round loss.
That second half was the worst coached half of college basketball I have ever season. I don't know if Wojo was just blinded by the lights or gave up or what. But it was completely uninspired.
I don't think the first sentence is true. Maybe for a single game. But all the experts preseason said we had a roster that was good enough to be just outside the top 25. Wojo led that group to a 5 seed and put together the 17th best resume in the country. I don't think that means Wojo is great, but I don't think it means he was bad either. Today? He was bad, no way around it. Definitely goes into the file as a massive red flag.
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How much is he being paid...i’m Guessing 99.99% here have no idea but just make that statement.
Hes making just under 2 mill a year last i checked
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No, that's not how it works. By that logic all coaches would get to a point where they only way they avoid a "step backwards". You have to work within the realities of a roster. Year 4 was a rebuilding year, always was going to be a rebuilding year. We lost three starters to graduation, most programs that do that don't have as good of a season the following year. Despite it being a rebuilding year, we were in the bubble conversation all season. Wojo's first year was a rebuilding year too, they had a losing record. That's progress.
No reason year 4 should have been a rebuilding year - Wojo should have been able to put the pieces together for a team in his 4th year. IMO that years is actually the biggest indictment to his tenure.
And yes, if you're Jay Wright you can take a step backwards. I'll let it slide.
But if the pinnacle of your career is getting blown out as a 10 seed then no, you don't get to take a step back as a high-major coach in a team with a top-10 college BB budget.
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what coach wouldn't be lining up to take a job where the previous coach won 84 games in the previous 4 years, went to 2 NCAA tournaments, had his team ranked in the top 10 late in the season and was fired? It's the kind of situation every coach dreams of being in.
Let's bring in Jon Harris to work with our bigs. Shake up the assistant ranks.
Can't ignore that Wojo steered that top 10 ship into a 1-6 iceberg to finish the season unranked.
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So Stan isn’t part of game planning? Isn’t part of the in game coaching you hate? Interesting
A) being a head coach you have a completely different influence over the team (but you know that and you like to play dumb). B) you assemble your own staff so it would result in wholesale changes on the staff
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Adding elliot is a far cry from making a tourney run. Hes no better than a sacar or bailey. We need another true nba level player again. Juco transfer or not. We put a lot of players in the league during the buzz era and quite a few more that had their shots and didnt pan out
We did a lot of other things in the Buzz era, too. Sorry, university has said that crap is over.
Maybe we can go down to the corner NBA store and pick up a guy.
Look, everyone knows we need to get more athletic, including Wojo. Our incoming recruits continue to go in that direction.
We have been bridesmaids on some kids in recruiting, but you keep at it and make additional strides.
You guys that want to fire him, we immediately take several big steps backward because the university is not going to let just anyone come in to play. Not sure why this little nugget is not seared into everyone’s brain at this point. Buzz blew that, torched the university bad and left a very bad taste and embarrassing crapburger for the school. They aren’t going back to that scenario.
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Fact. Wojo is one and done!
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No reason year 4 should have been a rebuilding year - Wojo should have been able to put the pieces together for a team in his 4th year. IMO that years is actually the biggest indictment to his tenure.
No reason? So Wojo can control when the players he inherited graduated? Year 4 was always going to be a rebuilding year given the makeup of the roster.
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what coach wouldn't be lining up to take a job where the previous coach won 84 games in the previous 4 years, went to 2 NCAA tournaments, had his team ranked in the top 10 late in the season and was fired? It's the kind of situation every coach dreams of being in.
Let's bring in Jon Harris to work with our bigs. Shake up the assistant ranks.
OK lets see Wojo’s powerpoint. Let’s see what he expected of himself. Wojo set the “budget,” shouldn’t he own it? Does every decision have to be made with no risk? Are you an actuary?
There are obviously better coaches out there who would agree that 5 years is a sufficient amount of time to demonstrate some postseason success. And I’m sure they wouldn’t mind making millions of dollars.
“Who are the candidates guys???” Literally anyone can win nothing. I think I have reached the point where I cant stand Wojo’s stupid face.
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ESPN is wrong. He played. 2 minutes official box score
Great, that will help the young fellow going into next season. Glad he saw the court.
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No reason? So Wojo can control when the players he inherited graduated? Year 4 was always going to be a rebuilding year given the makeup of the roster.
Wojo knew he was going to have a small team in year four. He swung and missed on two PF grad transfers. Had we landed one of them we probably would have made the NCAA that year (or if we just wouldn't have lost to DePaul at home). I'd say that's on Wojo. No one was expecting we were going to the FF that year, but we should have made the tournament.
At any rate, I give credit to you and Cheeks for at least coming on here and defending Wojo after that debacle. That takes grit. But the truth of the matter right now we have a coach that might get us to the tournament 50% of the time and maybe once a decade we'll win a game or two. If that's the kind of program you are happy enough with MU having, that's great, but it's hard to see how Wojo ever gives us much more than that.
I mean what even happened today? Was he blinded by the bright lights? Did he have a mid-game stroke and lose the ability to reason or speak? Does he go into some kind of induced paralysis?
He wasn't prepared. His players weren't prepared. And he didn't make a single meaningful second half adjustment. In the biggest game of the year. His final exam. F.
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fans gotta stop putting up with this crap. stop showing up to games. let them know we ain't happy. stop donations. if this performance isn't the tipping point then I guess we are fine with a below average program
That is an understatement
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Don't know what's worse, watching that debacle or reading Chico's posts. Close call.
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Has anyone ever thought that Chico just might be Wojo? :)
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Hes making just under 2 mill a year last i checked
Sean Miller making $4M, not in tournament
Bob Huggins making $3.6M, not in tournament
Larry Krystoviak making $3.4M, not in tournament
Archie Miller making $3.2M, not in tournament
Shaka Smart making $3.1M, not in tournament
Gregg Marshall (everyone's flavor of the year the last few years, making $3M, not in tournament
Avergy Johnson making $2.9M not in tournament
Frank Martin, $2.9M, not in tournament
Brad Underwood, $2.7M not in tournament
Cuonzo Martin, $2.7M not in tournament
Steve Alford, $2.7M....not even coaching and not in tournament
Mike Anderson, $2.6M, not in tournament
And on and on and on.
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Sean Miller making $4M, not in tournament
Bob Huggins making $3.6M, not in tournament
Larry Krystoviak making $3.4M, not in tournament
Archie Miller making $3.2M, not in tournament
Shaka Smart making $3.1M, not in tournament
Gregg Marshall (everyone's flavor of the year the last few years, making $3M, not in tournament
Avergy Johnson making $2.9M not in tournament
Frank Martin, $2.9M, not in tournament
Brad Underwood, $2.7M not in tournament
Cuonzo Martin, $2.7M not in tournament
Steve Alford, $2.7M....not even coaching and not in tournament
Mike Anderson, $2.6M, not in tournament
And on and on and on.
Can you go back through and point out which of these coaches have less tournament wins than Woeful Wojo?
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Cheeks and TAMU, I'm curious. What grade do you give Wojo for the season?
I'd give him 4 tests, non-con (20%), 1st half con(20%), 2nd half con (20%), post-season (40%).
Non-con was pretty good. IU loss sucked, but beating bucky and two other highly ranked teams at home. "A-"
First half of Con was very good. SJU loss on the road acceptable although don't love the blow out "A-"
Second half of Con. Losing to SJU again at home not great, but ok. Right the ship, but then the wheels come off D+
Post-season. Beating SJU is good vindication. But getting the doors blown off in the NCAA the end. "D-"
That adds up to a straight C. Woo-hoo!
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We did a lot of other things in the Buzz era, too. Sorry, university has said that crap is over.
Maybe we can go down to the corner NBA store and pick up a guy.
Look, everyone knows we need to get more athletic, including Wojo. Our incoming recruits continue to go in that direction.
We have been bridesmaids on some kids in recruiting, but you keep at it and make additional strides.
You guys that want to fire him, we immediately take several big steps backward because the university is not going to let just anyone come in to play. Not sure why this little nugget is not seared into everyone’s brain at this point. Buzz blew that, torched the university bad and left a very bad taste and embarrassing crapburger for the school. They aren’t going back to that scenario.
I would submit that the last 7 games from Wojo has been the embarrassing crapburger you should refer to.
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Sean Miller making $4M, not in tournament
Bob Huggins making $3.6M, not in tournament
Larry Krystoviak making $3.4M, not in tournament
Archie Miller making $3.2M, not in tournament
Shaka Smart making $3.1M, not in tournament
Gregg Marshall (everyone's flavor of the year the last few years, making $3M, not in tournament
Avergy Johnson making $2.9M not in tournament
Frank Martin, $2.9M, not in tournament
Brad Underwood, $2.7M not in tournament
Cuonzo Martin, $2.7M not in tournament
Steve Alford, $2.7M....not even coaching and not in tournament
Mike Anderson, $2.6M, not in tournament
And on and on and on.
Not sure if you’re using this to defend Wojo or not but half those coaches have better resumes and are in a down year and will be back performing better than Wojo or took over programs recently and also will be better than Wojo.
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Wojo knew he was going to have a small team in year four. He swung and missed on two PF grad transfers. Had we landed one of them we probably would have made the NCAA that year (or if we just wouldn't have lost to DePaul at home). I'd say that's on Wojo. No one was expecting we were going to the FF that year, but we should have made the tournament.
Not one talking head, expert, preseason bracketology, metric, etc had us making the tournament that season.
At any rate, I give credit to you and Cheeks for at least coming on here and defending Wojo after that debacle. That takes grit. But the truth of the matter right now we have a coach that might get us to the tournament 50% of the time and maybe once a decade we'll win a game or two. If that's the kind of program you are happy enough with MU having, that's great, but it's hard to see how Wojo ever gives us much more than that.
It doesn't take grit. Just a cool head. I'm pissed about the loss, but I can look at the season as a whole and see it was a good season overall. I can see where we improved and that the trend line is up. I grade on the whole season, not just the tournament. Tournament is a chance to move up or down half a letter grade, we moved down.
I mean what even happened today? Was he blinded by the bright lights? Did he have a mid-game stroke and lose the ability to reason or speak? Does he go into some kind of induced paralysis?
He wasn't prepared. His players weren't prepared. And he didn't make a single meaningful second half adjustment. In the biggest game of the year. His final exam. F.
I didn't have a problem with the game plan going in. Murray State is a bad three point shooting team. They are an elite 2 pt shooting team. We tried to take the two away by leaving them open for three. It worked, they were bad inside the arc in the first half, but they made every damn three. Then as we are making our run, Markus gets called for a phantom foul, Ed gets called for a phantom foul, and Joey/John pick up their 2nd each. Snowballs from bad to catastrophe. He didn't make the right adjustments at half and our fate is sealed. The second half is about the worst I've seen out of Wojo ever. Definitely gets a red flag on his record.
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Zero tourney wins in how many years? /End argument
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Cheeks and TAMU, I'm curious. What grade do you give Wojo for the season?
I'd give him 4 tests, non-con (20%), 1st half con(20%), 2nd half con (20%), post-season (40%).
Non-con was pretty good. IU loss sucked, but beating bucky and two other highly ranked teams at home. "A-"
First half of Con was very good. SJU loss on the road acceptable although don't love the blow out "A-"
Second half of Con. Losing to SJU again at home not great, but ok. Right the ship, but then the wheels come off D+
Post-season. Beating SJU is good vindication. But getting the doors blown off in the NCAA the end. "D-"
That adds up to a straight C. Woo-hoo!
B. Was a a B+ before today.
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Has anyone ever thought that Chico just might be Wojo? :)
No, chico is mazzaburger
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Maybe most of us have too high of expectations for this program. Perhaps we really are a glorified mid major and would be better off in the horizon league
I will say this i will never talk crap about a mid major conference from here on out. My justification for picking mu today was “they dont play anybody” all season. Well insert foot in mouth
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Sean Miller making $4M, not in tournament
Bob Huggins making $3.6M, not in tournament
Larry Krystoviak making $3.4M, not in tournament
Archie Miller making $3.2M, not in tournament
Shaka Smart making $3.1M, not in tournament
Gregg Marshall (everyone's flavor of the year the last few years, making $3M, not in tournament
Avergy Johnson making $2.9M not in tournament
Frank Martin, $2.9M, not in tournament
Brad Underwood, $2.7M not in tournament
Cuonzo Martin, $2.7M not in tournament
Steve Alford, $2.7M....not even coaching and not in tournament
Mike Anderson, $2.6M, not in tournament
And on and on and on.
More excuses
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Talk about an “embarrassing crapburger”, todays game!
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Lot of bad excuses here and I was very even on Wojo. It’s time. It won’t happen but its time
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All I hear from Wojo apologists is it was a "rebuild". Year 1 was a rebuild, year 2 was a rebuild, year 3 was a rebuild, year 4 was a rebuild, year 5 was a rebuild. When does it end? The goddamn goon is over there in VT, a town that didn't know what basketball was till his aerodynamic head came in, and their unnatural carnal knowledgeing dancing every year.
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Not one talking head, expert, preseason bracketology, metric, etc had us making the tournament that season.
It doesn't take grit. Just a cool head. I'm pissed about the loss, but I can look at the season as a whole and see it was a good season overall. I can see where we improved and that the trend line is up. I grade on the whole season, not just the tournament. Tournament is a chance to move up or down half a letter grade, we moved down.
I didn't have a problem with the game plan going in. Murray State is a bad three point shooting team. They are an elite 2 pt shooting team. We tried to take the two away by leaving them open for three. It worked, they were bad inside the arc in the first half, but they made every damn three. Then as we are making our run, Markus gets called for a phantom foul, Ed gets called for a phantom foul, and Joey/John pick up their 2nd each. Snowballs from bad to catastrophe. He didn't make the right adjustments at half and our fate is sealed. The second half is about the worst I've seen out of Wojo ever. Definitely gets a red flag on his record.
Well we can agree on that at any rate.
I mean I think there is a decent likelihood that Markus has been playing with a much more significant injury than is publicly known. That said, Wojo hasn't made any obvious adjustments to that reality.
Sure his teams have made some very marginal and incremental improvements in the past 5 years. But that's mostly because we started from such a low baseline. How quickly we all forget that this program had been 8/8 in tourney appearances in the 8 years preceding Buzz's last year.
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Sean Miller making $4M, not in tournament
Bob Huggins making $3.6M, not in tournament
Larry Krystoviak making $3.4M, not in tournament
Archie Miller making $3.2M, not in tournament
Shaka Smart making $3.1M, not in tournament
Gregg Marshall (everyone's flavor of the year the last few years, making $3M, not in tournament
Avergy Johnson making $2.9M not in tournament
Frank Martin, $2.9M, not in tournament
Brad Underwood, $2.7M not in tournament
Cuonzo Martin, $2.7M not in tournament
Steve Alford, $2.7M....not even coaching and not in tournament
Mike Anderson, $2.6M, not in tournament
And on and on and on.
How many tourney wins do those coaches have?
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Right now, I feel that wojo is not a very good coach. He doesn't seem to "coach the players up." He also doesn't seem to be a very good game coach. He's a nice guy, but, certainly does not deserve a raise.
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Sean Miller making $4M, not in tournament
Bob Huggins making $3.6M, not in tournament
Larry Krystoviak making $3.4M, not in tournament
Archie Miller making $3.2M, not in tournament
Shaka Smart making $3.1M, not in tournament
Gregg Marshall (everyone's flavor of the year the last few years, making $3M, not in tournament
Avergy Johnson making $2.9M not in tournament
Frank Martin, $2.9M, not in tournament
Brad Underwood, $2.7M not in tournament
Cuonzo Martin, $2.7M not in tournament
Steve Alford, $2.7M....not even coaching and not in tournament
Mike Anderson, $2.6M, not in tournament
And on and on and on.
I get it. You make a valid point that not all big name, high salaried coaches succeed. But the question is not about the other programs, the question is about Marquette.
Is Marquette on the path to high level success? Perhaps more importantly, is the goal for Marquette high level success?
I answer "no" to both questions.
If middling performance is the goal, then Wojo and Marquette have succeeded.
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Right now, I feel that wojo is not a very good coach. He doesn't seem to "coach the players up." He also doesn't seem to be a very good game coach. He's a nice guy, but, certainly does not deserve a raise.
Markus was probably hurt. But (almost?) every other players regressed throughout the season.
1) Either because they played too many minutes and ran out of steam
2) Others made adjustments on them and Wojo didn't make counter adjustments to keep them successful.
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At any rate, I give credit to you and Cheeks for at least coming on here and defending Wojo after that debacle. That takes grit.
Chico's "gritty" defense of Wojo--He didn't have any negative stories written about any of his players in the Chicago Tribune.
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Right now, I feel that wojo is not a very good coach. He doesn't seem to "coach the players up." He also doesn't seem to be a very good game coach. He's a nice guy, but, certainly does not deserve a raise.
Wojo, got a raise after his first year! I would not be surprised if got one this year.
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Get on the phone to Wardle. Would take him in a heartbeat over Wojo.Give him 5 year deal that Wojo has, and see what happens. We know what we have in Wojo, a kick ass power point presenter.
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Da dude hoo drives da bus crashed and berned. Ya mite get da kneed body werk dunn, butt da engine is still da same. Wojo has proven he doesn't have what it takes. Time to give Wojo the heave ho, aina?
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Markus being hurt is a poor excuse. If the injury was severe he would not be in there
He plays outside of his game. Hero ball and nobody else that can step up and be clutch.
His biggest issue is that he is asked to play the point and he cant handle it. Hes the shortest starting 2 guard in college basketball i imagine.
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All I hear from Wojo apologists is it was a "rebuild". Year 1 was a rebuild, year 2 was a rebuild, year 3 was a rebuild, year 4 was a rebuild, year 5 was a rebuild. When does it end? The goddamn goon is over there in VT, a town that didn't know what basketball was till his aerodynamic head came in, and their unnatural carnal knowledgeing dancing every year.
Year 3 and Year 5 weren't rebuild years. I don't think anyone has ever said that.
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Year 3 and Year 5 weren't rebuild years. I don't think anyone has ever said that.
A lot of people, including myself, were willing to call year 3 a rebuilding year (Wojo's second year with his first recruiting class). Hell, I am willing to call year 4 a rebuilding year.
The question is, "where is this program headed?"
I see limited upside.
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I see limited upside.
And a program with no discernable identity.
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Chico's "gritty" defense of Wojo--He didn't have any negative stories written about any of his players in the Chicago Tribune.
[/quote
Is that the gritty insight a client gets for $500 an hour?
Hey, how much you take home so far this year?
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And a program with no discernable identity.
That's a cogent observation.
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I like people talking about how much wojo gets paid.
Are you all confident that the current amount spent on the program/coach isn't exactly the amount to get the success we currently have? That Marquette isn't all that desirable compared to across the country? That if we invested less, then we would also return less?
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Get on the phone to Wardle. Would take him in a heartbeat over Wojo.Give him 5 year deal that Wojo has, and see what happens. We know what we have in Wojo, a kick ass power point presenter.
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Get on the phone to Wardle. Would take him in a heartbeat over Wojo.Give him 5 year deal that Wojo has, and see what happens. We know what we have in Wojo, a kick ass power point presenter.
Why would you suddenly just want wardle?? No way in hell he was on your radar before today.
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Wojo, got a raise after his first year! I would not be surprised if got one this year.
Well that would put to bed the argument that other programs are getting more for less. The heat on Wojo will go up 10×.
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Porky is as disappointed as everyone, but......It would have been far worse if we entered as a 3 or 4 seed and lost like this. Let's be honest.....our season ended a couple of weeks ago. That's why Porky made zero effort to attend any of the BET games or this one despite living within an hour's drive of both NYC and Hartford.
It was a great run there for a while but the season caught up with is. We were never the 10th best team in the country. At least Porky never believed we were. Still, Porky is neutral on Wojo and glad be brought us back to relevance this season. To use the Buy, Sell or Hold analogy, Porky believes Wojo is a hold. Cmon scoopers it's difficult to go from NIT also ran to Sweet 16 in one season. Even if we won today, we probably weren't going to make it out of this weekend after the pathetic way our regular season ended. Until next year.......
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Sean Miller making $4M, not in tournament
Bob Huggins making $3.6M, not in tournament
Larry Krystoviak making $3.4M, not in tournament
Archie Miller making $3.2M, not in tournament
Shaka Smart making $3.1M, not in tournament
Gregg Marshall (everyone's flavor of the year the last few years, making $3M, not in tournament
Avergy Johnson making $2.9M not in tournament
Frank Martin, $2.9M, not in tournament
Brad Underwood, $2.7M not in tournament
Cuonzo Martin, $2.7M not in tournament
Steve Alford, $2.7M....not even coaching and not in tournament
Mike Anderson, $2.6M, not in tournament
And on and on and on.
Was this a pro or anti-Wojo post?
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All I hear from Wojo apologists is it was a "rebuild". Year 1 was a rebuild, year 2 was a rebuild, year 3 was a rebuild, year 4 was a rebuild, year 5 was a rebuild. When does it end? The goddamn goon is over there in VT, a town that didn't know what basketball was till his aerodynamic head came in, and their unnatural carnal knowledgeing dancing every year.
Nope, that isn’t what you hear because no one says that.....doesn’t help your case to totally fabricate what people say.
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Porky is as disappointed as everyone.
Porky is disappointed. What about his Butthole (sic)?
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How many tourney wins do those coaches have?
None this year, didn’t even make it....how dare they get paid more than Wojo by a huge amount and not even bother to make the tournament. They must be really bad.
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At any rate, I give credit to you and Cheeks for at least coming on here and defending Wojo after that debacle. That takes grit.
Defending Wojo's performance in this debacle doesn't take grit or deserve credit. It takes foolishness and deserves scorn.
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Right now, I feel that wojo is not a very good coach. He doesn't seem to "coach the players up." He also doesn't seem to be a very good game coach. He's a nice guy, but, certainly does not deserve a raise.
Serious question for you
Anim better now or as a freshman or sophomore
Howard better now or as a freshman or sophomore
John better now or as a freshman
Sam better now or as a freshman or sophomore
Statistically, conference accolades, etc, all suggest they got better. We test does, too.
Do you disagree? Those coaches weren’t coached up?
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I get it. You make a valid point that not all big name, high salaried coaches succeed. But the question is not about the other programs, the question is about Marquette.
Is Marquette on the path to high level success? Perhaps more importantly, is the goal for Marquette high level success?
I answer "no" to both questions.
If middling performance is the goal, then Wojo and Marquette have succeeded.
Top 2 in a major conference and making the NCAA tournament is middling? Is that the definition?
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Top 2 in a major conference and making the NCAA tournament is middling? Is that the definition?
Less tournament wins than UMBC the last 5 years is middling.
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Chico's "gritty" defense of Wojo--He didn't have any negative stories written about any of his players in the Chicago Tribune.
Nope, my defense is we have gone from a non NIT team and a lot of bad stuff off the court, to a team that has made three straight post season appearances after rebuild. Next year will be NCAA again. Those are facts, but feel free to attack with fake comments as you often do.
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None this year, didn’t even make it....how dare they get paid more than Wojo by a huge amount and not even bother to make the tournament. They must be really bad.
Now you're either joking or trolling. Do I laugh or ignore?
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Sean Miller making $4M, not in tournament - 4 elite 8's, 3 sweet 16's, 11 Ncaa appearances (Talking about firing)
Bob Huggins making $3.6M, not in tournament - 23 ncaa appearances, 5 sweet 16's, 2 elite 8's, 2 final fours
Larry Krystoviak making $3.4M, not in tournament - 4 ncaa appearances, 1 sweet 16
Archie Miller making $3.2M, not in tournament - 4 ncaa apperances, 1 elite 8 (Mid major)
Shaka Smart making $3.1M, not in tournament - 7 ncaa apperances, 1 final four (Majority mid major)
Gregg Marshall (everyone's flavor of the year the last few years, making $3M, not in tournament - 13 ncaa apperances, 1 final four (mid majors)
I wont bother with the rest.
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My top 5 choices in no particular order:
Tony Bennett
John Calipari
Billy Donovan
Rick Pitino
Kevin Ollie
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Why would you suddenly just want wardle?? No way in hell he was on your radar before today.
Flavor of the month every year when fans of their ncaa team loses and the emotional tantrum candidate list comes to the head. Gregg Marshall is currently not the flavor of the month, apparently....but he sure was last few years.
Porter Moses had his flavor revoked. Today it is Wardle. Danny Manning was pushed hard by people here 5 years ago.
It is so funny to watch the flavor of the month wheel.
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Was this a pro or anti-Wojo post?
It was factual, something this thread needs.
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Less tournament wins than UMBC the last 5 years is middling.
Crapshoot. A lot of coaches can be lumped into that, including Buzz Williams. That doesn’t mean Buzz’s team doesn’t go to the Elite 8 this year and the dry humping will go to town on this board.
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Serious question for you
Anim better now or as a freshman or sophomore
Howard better now or as a freshman or sophomore
John better now or as a freshman
Sam better now or as a freshman or sophomore
Statistically, conference accolades, etc, all suggest they got better. We test does, too.
Do you disagree? Those coaches weren’t coached up?
News flash, 18 year olds progress when they turn 19. Shocker to everyone.
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Wojo has met my expectations every single season. Before this season, I predicted 22-24 regular season wins, top 3 in the Big East, and a 5 seed in the tourney. Hell, in floorslapper's 'will this team win a tournament game' thread, I predicted a 5-12 upset. That was in November and mostly meant as a joke. But still.......
So he has met my expectations every year. Assuming the core comes back and McEwen and GE are what we hope they are, my expectations for next year are higher. But at the end of the day, the powers that be wanted the anti-Buzz. They got him. The other top candidates at the time were Shaka (snicker), Cuonzo (moved on how many times?) and Howland. Quite the list. And now so many want Wojo gone. And replaced with? Never mind. Moot point. Not happening.
Time to sit back and see what changes happen to the roster.
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Now you're either joking or trolling. Do I laugh or ignore?
If you don’t like facts, which is what I am using, I would suggest ignore.
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Sean Miller making $4M, not in tournament - 4 elite 8's, 3 sweet 16's, 11 Ncaa appearances (Talking about firing)
Bob Huggins making $3.6M, not in tournament - 23 ncaa appearances, 5 sweet 16's, 2 elite 8's, 2 final fours
Larry Krystoviak making $3.4M, not in tournament - 4 ncaa appearances, 1 sweet 16
Archie Miller making $3.2M, not in tournament - 4 ncaa apperances, 1 elite 8 (Mid major)
Shaka Smart making $3.1M, not in tournament - 7 ncaa apperances, 1 final four (Majority mid major)
Gregg Marshall (everyone's flavor of the year the last few years, making $3M, not in tournament - 13 ncaa apperances, 1 final four (mid majors)
I wont bother with the rest.
Yet couldn’t find a way to make it despite twice the salary....I mean WTH, how is it possible with their brain power, their coaching acumen, the investment in them as coaches they they don’t get to the tournament.....indefensible apparently. If lowly Wojo who cannot coach and makes a meager $2M gets in, how in the hell can these guys not? 🤔
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My top 5 choices in no particular order:
Tony Bennett
John Calipari
Billy Donovan
Rick Pitino
Kevin Ollie
Outstanding!!! But as already mentioned, MU can only get assistants so please list the assistants coming over.
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Outstanding!!! But as already mentioned, MU can only get assistants so please list the assistants coming over.
In that case, someone willing to cheat and shove players
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It was factual, something this thread needs.
Did I question your facts?
Please reread my post.
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Wojo has met my expectations every single season. Before this season, I predicted 22-24 regular season wins, top 3 in the Big East, and a 5 seed in the tourney. Hell, in floorslapper's 'will this team win a tournament game' thread, I predicted a 5-12 upset. That was in November and mostly meant as a joke. But still.......
So he has met my expectations every year. Assuming the core comes back and McEwen and GE are what we hope they are, my expectations for next year are higher. But at the end of the day, the powers that be wanted the anti-Buzz. They got him. The other top candidates at the time were Shaka (snicker), Cuonzo (moved on how many times?) and Howland. Quite the list. And now so many want Wojo gone. And replaced with? Never mind. Moot point. Not happening.
Time to sit back and see what changes happen to the roster.
Sensible post Tower! Porky concurs!
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News flash, 18 year olds progress when they turn 19. Shocker to everyone.
Actually, not always. Dominic James didn’t. Duane Wilson didn’t. Sandy Cohen didn’t. Derrick Wilson, nope. Juan Anderson...not really. Etc etc
The point was, someone said the players aren’t coached up, seemingly don’t improve. Uhm, ok. Whatever.
Some do, some do slower rate, some don’t at all. Sometimes that is on the coach, sometimes on the player.
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Actually, not always. Dominic James didn’t. Duane Wilson didn’t. Sandy Cohen didn’t. Derrick Wilson, nope. Juan Anderson...not really. Etc etc
The point was, someone said the players aren’t coached up, seemingly don’t improve. Uhm, ok. Whatever.
Some do, some do slower rate, some don’t at all. Sometimes that is on the coach, sometimes on the player.
I don't think it helps your cause that 4/5 of those players were under wojo's tender.
Also Dominic James definitely improved.
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I don't think it helps your cause that 4/5 of those players were under wojo's tender.
Also Dominic James definitely improved.
The “newsflash” was they got better because they went from 18 to 19 years old.
The examples I gave, those guys didn’t improve in that freshman to sophomore jump as you implied as some universal truism. It’s as if you had never heard the term “sophomore slump” before.
Dominic James sophomore year was lower in PTs, lower in assists, lower in rebounds, lower in blocks, lower Fg%, lower 3FG%, despite more minutes played. No, he did not improve from 18 to 19 as you stated.
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What recruiting class we ain’t bringing in a top 10 anything
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I'm carrying a sledgehammer to bash Wojo with but I believe we beat #1 Villanova two years ago. That was tangible.
How?
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Actually, not always. Dominic James didn’t. Duane Wilson didn’t. Sandy Cohen didn’t. Derrick Wilson, nope. Juan Anderson...not really. Etc etc
The point was, someone said the players aren’t coached up, seemingly don’t improve. Uhm, ok. Whatever.
Some do, some do slower rate, some don’t at all. Sometimes that is on the coach, sometimes on the player.
Didn't James get a good amount of NBA attention after his sophomore year?
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Simple. We are back in the tournament, will be again next year. I expect to be better next year.
Final straw is when we don’t go to the NCAAs multiple years or NCAA violations. Until then, looking forward to next year since no one has any real alternatives and just wants to pout today.
2 tourneys 2x getting run out the building
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Didn't James get a good amount of NBA attention after his sophomore year?
Nope. His freshman year he did.
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2 tourneys 2x getting run out the building
Yup, one to a Final Four team and today to what might be the second best player in the country...let’s see how far they go.
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Defending Wojo's performance in this debacle doesn't take grit or deserve credit. It takes foolishness and deserves scorn.
I have yet to see one person defend Wojo's performance today.
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Have ya talked ta da BOT, hey?
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By the way since the original question posed by the OP wasn’t really addressed in the responses I’ll offer up a name; Shaka Smart. I can see next year being his last at TX and I can see next year being Wojo’s last at MU. I think his style is a perfect fit for the original Warrior brand.
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By the way since the original question posed by the OP wasn’t really addressed in the responses I’ll offer up a name; Shaka Smart. I can see next year being his last at TX and I can see next year being Wojo’s last at MU. I think his style is a perfect fit for the original Warrior brand.
Hasn't been to the Sweet 16 since '11.
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Hasn't been to the Sweet 16 since '11.
I still think he’s a great coach and has a proven record of success.
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I still think he’s a great coach and has a proven record of success.
If you don't like Wojo's trend line, you really won't like Shaka's.
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I still think he’s a great coach and has a proven record of success.
Are you just ignoring his last 4 years at Texas?
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If you don't like Wojo's trend line, you really won't like Shaka's.
I think he’s a much better coach than Wojo. I’ll throw out another name while I’m at it; Mick Cronin. His style also fits what I associate with the Warrior brand.
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Lure Doc Rivers out of the NBA. Would probably be the name that would resonate with current players to maintain the roster and resonate with recruits as a guy who can help them toward the nba. Plus, the big east would be the trendsetter with multiple former players coaching their former schools.
Would anyone not trade Wojo for Doc in a minute? Plus, since Doc was in on his hire...he sorta owes us....
One can dream
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I think he’s a much better coach than Wojo. I’ll throw out another name while I’m at it; Mick Cronin. His style also fits what I associate with the Warrior brand.
Yeesh. If you don't like early exits from the tournament that's a really rough choice. 1 Sweet 16 ever.
That being said, I agree Mick is a great coach and would be happy if he was our coach. I don't see why he would leave his alma mater for here.
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I think he’s a much better coach than Wojo. I’ll throw out another name while I’m at it; Mick Cronin. His style also fits what I associate with the Warrior brand.
Jesus. Cronin isn't leaving Cincinnati for Marquette. Did you literally just pick the first coach you saw on TV?
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Lure Doc Rivers out of the NBA. Would probably be the name that would resonate with current players to maintain the roster and resonate with recruits as a guy who can help them toward the nba. Plus, the big east would be the trendsetter with multiple former players coaching their former schools.
Would anyone not trade Wojo for Doc in a minute? Plus, since Doc was in on his hire...he sorta owes us....
One can dream
As we know, former NBA coaches have a track record of massive success in college ball. Right, Chris Mullin, Mike Dunleavey, Avery Johnson, Terry Porter and Isiah Thomas?
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22763512/penny-hardaway-former-nba-all-stars-struggling-college-head-coaches
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Jesus. Cronin isn't leaving Cincinnati for Marquette. Did you literally just pick the first coach you saw on TV?
I live in Cincinnati. What is sad though is I can watch TV all day today and identify better coaches than Woj
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Lure Doc Rivers out of the NBA. Would probably be the name that would resonate with current players to maintain the roster and resonate with recruits as a guy who can help them toward the nba. Plus, the big east would be the trendsetter with multiple former players coaching their former schools.
Would anyone not trade Wojo for Doc in a minute? Plus, since Doc was in on his hire...he sorta owes us....
One can dream
[/quote
As we know, former NBA coaches have a track record of massive success in college ball. Right, Chris Mullin, Mike Dunleavey, Avery Johnson, Terry Porter and Isiah Thomas?
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22763512/penny-hardaway-former-nba-all-stars-struggling-college-head-coaches
Doc Rivers >>>>> Hue Jackson > Wojo
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If you don't like Wojo's trend line, you really won't like Shaka's.
Yup, massive irony on that one.
Better salary, state flagship school, largest athletic department in the country in terms of revenue, huge recruiting base, but he gets love.
The double standards here are incredible sometimes.
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I think he’s a much better coach than Wojo. I’ll throw out another name while I’m at it; Mick Cronin. His style also fits what I associate with the Warrior brand.
Another guy that you would demand be fired in a few years, besides we only hire assistant coaches.
What assistant are you hiring?
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I live in Cincinnati. What is sad though is I can watch TV all day today and identify better coaches than Woj
Based on who you have offered up so far in your examples Brother NickelDimer, you clearly cannot.
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Yup, massive irony on that one.
Better salary, state flagship school, largest athletic department in the country in terms of revenue, but he gets love.
The double standards here are incredible sometimes.
Sometimes it’s a matter of being a poor fit. You’re a believer in fits being important in life? Shaka Smart is a better coach than Woj and has a resume to prove it. If you believe he went to TX and suddenly forgot how to coach I don’t know what to tell you
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Yup, one to a Final Four team and today to what might be the second best player in the country...let’s see how far they go.
True. But two bad losses nonetheless.
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Based on who you have offered up so far in your examples Brother NickelDimer, you clearly cannot.
My four year old can. She simply has to be facing the TV and pointing at most any game on. And yes Mick Cronin is actually quite a bit better at coaching than Woj.
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Have ya talked ta da BOT, hey?
Don't think they are down on him just yet.
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I still think he’s a great coach and has a proven record of success.
What's the point of pining for a coach who doesn't want to be here? It's never going to happen. You're just torturing yourself. Not to mention the fact that said coach is 10 games below .500 in Big 12 conference play with just two NCAAs appearances in the past 4 years -- both first-round exits.
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Sometimes it’s a matter of being a poor fit. You’re a believer in fits being important in life? Shaka Smart is a better coach than Woj and has a resume to prove it. If you believe he went to TX and suddenly forgot how to coach I don’t know what to tell you
But wait, you have made the same argument here. Did Wojo forget how to coach the last three weeks but knew how to coach the previous 4 months?
Stubbing your toe.
Look at what Smart has done. Final Four, then two straight years of 1-1, then his next four appearances 0-1.
For those of you who only care about March, that trend with those resources....fit or not, feels like you are making a double standards argument.
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But wait, you have made the same argument here. Did Wojo forget how to coach the last three weeks but knew how to coach the previous 4 months?
Stubbing your toe.
Look at what Smart has done. Final Four, then two straight years of 1-1, then his next four appearances 0-1.
For those of you who only care about March, that trend with those resources....fit or not, feels like you are making a double standards argument.
Who said there was concrete evidence that he was a great coach? I sure didn’t. Not based on a stretch of games in a single season. If you did you were awfully quick to do so.
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Who said there was concrete evidence that he was a great coach? I sure didn’t. Not based on a stretch of games in a single season. If you did you were awfully quick to do so.
Mick Cronin, had an easier team to play against, one that was falling apart in Iowa, and they lost today. Another better seed loses. Still like him as our replacement?
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Mick Cronin, had an easier team to play against, one that was falling apart in Iowa, and they lost today. Another better seed loses. Still like him as our replacement?
Yes he’s still a better coach. Wouldn’t be anywhere near my top choice but he’s a better coach.
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Yes he’s still a better coach. Wouldn’t be anywhere near my top choice but he’s a better coach.
Based on what? He couldn't beat a team that had lost 5 of 6 games going into the tournament, including a blowout loss at home to Rutgers and UC was seeded better....isn't that the mantra argument today? Interesting double standards alive and well here.
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Based on what? He couldn't beat a team that had lost 5 of 6 games going into the tournament, including a blowout loss at home to Rutgers and UC was seeded better....isn't that the mantra argument today? Interesting double standards alive and well here.
Basically a home game, too
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Tony Bennett might become available.
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Tony Bennett might become available.
But would MU want a coach that only plays to a system and made history twice? (If he loses again, causing UVA to fire him)
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Based on what? He couldn't beat a team that had lost 5 of 6 games going into the tournament, including a blowout loss at home to Rutgers and UC was seeded better....isn't that the mantra argument today? Interesting double standards alive and well here.
Based on his resume. Simple as that. He accomplished more in less time at Murray St than Wojo has at Marquette. Let that sink in.
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Basically a home game, too
Yup, if MU lost as a better seed in Chicago to a team that had lost 5 of 6 coming in with some blowout losses, there would be hell to pay.....but instead we have people here saying he would be a good coach for us. You literally cannot make this shat up if you tried, that's the level of insanity right now.
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Yup, if MU lost as a better seed in Chicago to a team that had lost 5 of 6 coming in with some blowout losses, there would be hell to pay.....but instead we have people here saying he would be a good coach for us. You literally cannot make this shat up if you tried, that's the level of insanity right now.
And we have people, well one person who’s running around here making excuses for yesterday like “bad luck” as if he’s paid to do it. Can’t make that level of insanity up.
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All of these comparisons seem pretty pointless.
Mick Cronin is in his 16th season as a Division I head coach -- more than three times as much experience as Wojo. Cronin has made 9 straight NCAA tournaments. But in his first 5 seasons: 2 NCAA bids. He's not going anywhere. He's certainly not coming to Marquette.
Shaka Smart is in his 10th season as a Division I head coach -- twice as much experience as Wojo. He did make 4 NCAA tournaments in his first 5 seasons, including a Final Four. But he's had far less success at Texas, missing the tourney 2 out of the past 3 years. Why we'd want him isn't clear to me. Plus he turned down the Marquette job. He's certainly not coming to Marquette.
You don't have to believe in Wojo. But it seems pretty clear the administration (i.e. the people who hired him and pay his salary) does. If you still want to discuss potential replacements, why waste everyone's time with completely unrealistic suggestions or comparisons?
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And we have people, well one person who’s running around here making excuses for yesterday like “bad luck” as if he’s paid to do it. Can’t make that level of insanity up.
Murray State should not have been a 12, and yes luck has a ton to do with it. We would have been luckier to have a worse seed like a 6 or a 7 considering those opponents and rankings. Just using factual data.
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Luck had nothing to do with getting annihilated. Just like it had nothing to do with the collapse.
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Luck had nothing to do with getting annihilated. Just like it had nothing to do with the collapse.
We beat an 11 seed just last week by 30 points.
Yes, luck in who you play matters. There were plenty of 11, 10, 9, 8 we could have beaten. Luck has a ton to do with who you play, where you play. To ignore this is foolish. Unfortunately we got the 5 vs 12.
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How many 12s beat 5s last year with that “unlucky curse of a draw”? It must be weird watching sports believing it’s just a matter of luck. Weird and unenjoyable.
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Tony Bennett might become available.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1027596542901972997/OTwYIp_O_400x400.jpg)
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How many 12s beat 5s last year with that “unlucky curse of a draw”? It must be weird watching sports believing it’s just a matter of luck. Weird and unenjoyable.
You just got done saying we couldn't beat an 11, I showed you we did only 8 days ago by 30 points....hmm.
We were a 5 seed playing the 43rd ranked team. Va Tech is a 4 seed playing the 104th ranked team. Yeah, luck and seeding don't mean anything. LOL
Irony, you also said not to pick the exception....last year was the exception for the 12 vs 5. Tsk tsk. The last 20 years, in 17 of them at least one 12 has won. This year, the most current data point, three of the four won and the fourth should have. Weird.
Facts.
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You just got done saying we couldn't beat an 11, I showed you we did only 8 days ago by 30 points....hmm.
We were a 5 seed playing the 43rd ranked team. Va Tech is a 4 seed playing the 104th ranked team. Yeah, luck and seeding don't mean anything. LOL
Irony, you also said not to pick the exception....last year was the exception for the 12 vs 5. Tsk tsk. The last 20 years, in 17 of them at least one 12 has won. This year, the most current data point, three of the four won and the fourth should have. Weird.
Facts.
Sports isn’t luck. Sorry to break that to you it’s not. And never has getting destroyed in competition been the result of luck. Ever. In the history of sports. Ever. One time.
Facts.
Your boy had his ass handed to him in the biggest game of his career. Again. For the second time he’s appeared in the tourney.
Facts.
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Sports isn’t luck. Sorry to break that to you it’s not. And never has getting destroyed in competition been the result of luck. Ever. In the history of sports. Ever. One time.
Facts.
Actually luck is a huge component of sports. The fact you would even say it isn't involved is all I need to know. In fact, that's stunning that you would say that.
I guess the whole "I'd rather be lucky than good" famous quote flew over your head. Know here it came from? Hint....sports figure.
I'm glad Kenpomeroy has a luck factor...weird since there is no luck in sports. Classic. Absolutely classic.
What you keep failing to understand is I have never said our loss was due to bad luck in terms of how we played against Murray State. They were the better team. However, WHO we played, absolutely luck had to do with it. That was my point, and I think deep down you actually probably knew that...or maybe not.
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You wanna know what I know deep down? We lost 6 of our last 7 and 2 of those losses were to teams that didn’t even sniff the tourney. We weren’t beating the majority of this tourney field regardless of our seed. And luck had nothing to do with that.
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11 seed Pomeroy rankings (includes 2 "play in" winners) :
St Marys 29
Ohio St 46
Belmont 50
ASU 59
Average ranking:46
12 seed Pomeroy rankings:
Oregon 33
Murray St 44
N Mx St 53
Liberty 58
Average ranking:47
Conclusion: Chico is full of it. Again.
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11 seed Pomeroy rankings (includes 2 "play in" winners) :
St Marys 29
Ohio St 46
Belmont 50
ASU 59
Average ranking:46
12 seed Pomeroy rankings:
Oregon 33
Murray St 44
N Mx St 53
Liberty 58
Average ranking:47
Conclusion: Chico is full of it. Again.
*Chico furiously googling data in an attempt to rebuttal*
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1027596542901972997/OTwYIp_O_400x400.jpg)
In his heart, he wants to coach at USF.
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11 seed Pomeroy rankings (includes 2 "play in" winners) :
St Marys 29
Ohio St 46
Belmont 50
ASU 59
Average ranking:46
12 seed Pomeroy rankings:
Oregon 33
Murray St 44
N Mx St 53
Liberty 58
Average ranking:47
Conclusion: Chico is full of it. Again.
How? All four 12 seeds were better than the worst 11. Murray State ranke$ higher than THREE of the 11 seeds. Which is exactly my point, I would rather have had three of the 11 seeds that were worse than Murray as a 12. Not full of it at all, apparently you can’t read your own numbers you wrote.
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You don't have to believe in Wojo. But it seems pretty clear the administration (i.e. the people who hired him and pay his salary) does. If you still want to discuss potential replacements, why waste everyone's time with completely unrealistic suggestions or comparisons?
Well that’s a bit dramatic, but ok I’ll give you a serious candidate who could replace Woj; Nate Oats. Homegrown kid who’s already proven to be a better tourney coach than Steve.
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Well that’s a bit dramatic, but ok I’ll give you a serious candidate who could replace Woj; Nate Oats. Homegrown kid who’s already proven to be a better tourney coach than Steve.
A week ago, he signed a five year extension with Buffalo.
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A week ago, he signed a five year extension with Buffalo.
That extension includes a $750,000 buyout. We can afford that. His base salary is $835,000 with $225,000 being covered by donations to the athletic department. If MU came calling and offered 1.5 mil i think he would at least listen.
I am a huge Nate Oates fan. I live in Buffalo and have been following UB all year and have been to a few of their games.
I love the style of basketball they play and how hard his kids play for him (look at the game yesterday for example...up 17 with less than 10 to play and they are diving on the ground for a loose ball).
UB plays unselfish basketball and passes so well. They may not beat Texas Tech tomorrow, however, I can tell you they will come out and give it their all. This team is not soft.
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They had MU on skates for about 30 minutes back in December. Outstanding ball and people movement on offense.
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I do not want to see Wojo leave if/when he does i would like to see
TJ Otzelberger at MU
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A week ago, he signed a five year extension with Buffalo.
I’m sure we can afford his buyout after next season. That’s pretty SOP
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First off, Wojo is not going anywhere over next few years, unless he decides to move on. Secondly, I would doubt if MU would embrace the Buffalo style of program. To me, it has a feel of mini Buzz environment and we know how original version ended here. MU has exactly the type of program they want to have and are comfortable in that decision. No fearing a phone call in middle of the night over off court issues popping up.
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First off, Wojo is not going anywhere over next few years, unless he decides to move on. Secondly, I would doubt if MU would embrace the Buffalo style of program. To me, it has a feel of mini Buzz environment and we know how original version ended here. MU has exactly the type of program they want to have and are comfortable in that decision. No fearing a phone call in middle of the night over off court issues popping up.
This... This is something.
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Marquette Wholesome Eagles!
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I’m sure we can afford his buyout after next season. That’s pretty SOP
Of course they could, but MU not going to waste 750K at this point.
Would like to see how Oates would recruit, since he is now at a mid major, and what are his ties to the various AAU circuit.
Its one thing to be an X and O's guy, but need the players to reach success.
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I do not want to see Wojo leave if/when he does i would like to see
TJ Otzelberger at MU
I like TJ but not sure if he’s the guy for a Marquette level job yet. Wouldn’t be against him here though.
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Of course they could, but MU not going to waste 750K at this point.
Would like to see how Oates would recruit, since he is now at a mid major, and what are his ties to the various AAU circuit.
Its one thing to be an X and O's guy, but need the players to reach success.
Well, Oats was the recruiter for Hurley at Buffalo as an assistant. Was the head coach at Romulus HS in Detroit for a long time. So, that has been established and so has his pipeline. Main question for any head coaching job is his wife’s health and care, which is why I don’t think he moves to any other job.
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I like TJ but not sure if he’s the guy for a Marquette level job yet. Wouldn’t be against him here though.
What is a "Marquette level" job? A program with 0 NCAA tournament wins in the past 5 years?
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People that look at Wojo and Marquette and think that abandoning ship now and starting over is the best plan, are one or more of the following:
-Ignorant
-Dumb
-Clueless
-Need a serious reality check.
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A
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Well that’s a bit dramatic, but ok I’ll give you a serious candidate who could replace Woj; Nate Oats. Homegrown kid who’s already proven to be a better tourney coach than Steve.
The same Nate Oats that Wojo kicked his ass in a few months ago? Their worst loss of the season I believe. So because Oats got to go up against a horrible ASU team, that makes him a better coach? How would Buffalo have done against Murray State?
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They had MU on skates for about 30 minutes back in December. Outstanding ball and people movement on offense.
MU gave Buffalo an 18 point loss. Markus lit them up. Apparently the boy genius couldn’t figure out how to stop us when others could.
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I am not in the fire Wojo camp. But I will be happy when he leaves.
For the Civil War buffs he is George McClellan. Knows how to build an army but doesn’t know how to use it.
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The same Nate Oats that Wojo kicked his ass in a few months ago? Their worst loss of the season I believe. So because Oats got to go up against a horrible ASU team, that makes him a better coach? How would Buffalo have done against Murray State?
The same Oats who’s resume is already more impressive than Wojo’s. Yep, him. The one who knew how to prepare his team for postseason play. Yep. Oh, and give that same Oats a player who scored 40 points with unconscious shooting in a half and see whether he gets “outcoached” by Wojo. Jeez cheeks. What a shallow understanding you just displayed.
Only you would credit the coach for riding the coat tails of an almost superhuman second half performance after he built a whopping 1 point lead at half. Oh, and at home
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The same Oats who’s resume is already more impressive than Wojo’s. Yep, him. The one who knew how to prepare his team for postseason play. Yep. Oh, and give that same Oats a player who scored 40 points with unconscious shooting in a half and see whether he gets “outcoached” by Wojo. Jeez cheeks. What a shallow understanding you just displayed.
Only you would credit the coach for riding the coat tails of an almost superhuman second half performance after he built a whopping 1 point lead at half. Oh, and at home
So the nuance of how Marquette lost to Murray state doesn't matter because at the end of the day, it's a loss.
But the nuance of how buffalo lost to Marquette matters, even though at the end of the day, it's a loss.
Fair enough.
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The same Oats who’s resume is already more impressive than Wojo’s. Yep, him. The one who knew how to prepare his team for postseason play. Yep. Oh, and give that same Oats a player who scored 40 points with unconscious shooting in a half and see whether he gets “outcoached” by Wojo. Jeez cheeks. What a shallow understanding you just displayed.
Only you would credit the coach for riding the coat tails of an almost superhuman second half performance after he built a whopping 1 point lead at half. Oh, and at home
The one that couldn’t figure out how to stop us and lost by nearly 20, against the coach that you say is terrible. So a data point we have right in front of our eyes, you ignore again. Classic. Why couldn’t Oats figure it out? In fact, in the press conference he admitted they couldn’t figure it out.
And how they lost to us matters, but how we lost to a better team and best player on the court in Murray State, that should be ignored? Your double standards are awesome.
Who else you got since Oats isn’t coming and you have been whiffing the logic train the last few days.
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Well that’s a bit dramatic, but ok I’ll give you a serious candidate who could replace Woj; Nate Oats. Homegrown kid who’s already proven to be a better tourney coach than Steve.
Hasn't all of Oats' success has come with another coach's recruits?
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The only scenario in which Wojo isn't here is if Arizona fires Miller. Then maybe they add Wojo with the assurance that he brings Stan along, which helps retain their recruiting class while also cleaning up the program.
If so...tear it all down and start over again, which doesn't sound any fun at all.
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What is a "Marquette level" job? A program with 0 NCAA tournament wins in the past 5 years?
6 years...Buzzard didn't get us into the tournament his last year when we were picked first in the Big East and we finished 6th.
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So the nuance of how Marquette lost to Murray state doesn't matter because at the end of the day, it's a loss.
But the nuance of how buffalo lost to Marquette matters, even though at the end of the day, it's a loss.
Fair enough.
You think they’re comparable? Agree to disagree. Strongly.
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First off, Wojo is not going anywhere over next few years, unless he decides to move on. Secondly, I would doubt if MU would embrace the Buffalo style of program. To me, it has a feel of mini Buzz environment and we know how original version ended here. MU has exactly the type of program they want to have and are comfortable in that decision. No fearing a phone call in middle of the night over off court issues popping up.
Has Buffalo had off court issues?
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I am not in the fire Wojo camp. But I will be happy when he leaves.
For the Civil War buffs he is George McClellan. Knows how to build an army but doesn’t know how to use it.
Very interesting analogy. I hope that Wojo becomes Ulysses Grant who learned from his lack of preparation and humiliation at Shiloh early in the war.
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Very interesting analogy. I hope that Wojo becomes Ulysses Grant who learned from his lack of preparation and humiliation at Shiloh early in the war.
You guys really think they didn't prepare? Look, they may have made strategic mistakes (I think they did), but that doesn't mean they didn't prepare. Those are two different things. A third is execution.
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What good coach in their right mind is going to leave their situation to go to a non-blue blood that just fired a coach following a season they finished top 2 in their conference and got the top 5 seed in the NCAA Tournament? Are people really this clueless?
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What good coach in their right mind is going to leave their situation to go to a non-blue blood that just fired a coach following a season they finished top 2 in their conference and got the top 5 seed in the NCAA Tournament? Are people really this clueless?
Is that a rhetorical question?
Seriously, though, I think the job is good enough and the returning roster good enough that it would draw interest.
But the only way Marquette hops on the coaching carousel is if Wojo chooses to leave. Which I find highly improbable.
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What good coach in their right mind is going to leave their situation to go to a non-blue blood that just fired a coach following a season they finished top 2 in their conference and got the top 5 seed in the NCAA Tournament? Are people really this clueless?
I think most good coaches in their right mind can tell Wojo is a terrible coach. We need to stop settling with Wojo because we think "we may or may not be able to do any better!". Wojo is a terrible coach, and it's been demonstrated time and again. Sad that the state of the program now is acceptable to some.
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I think most good coaches in their right mind can tell Wojo is a terrible coach.
Jay Wright on Winning Coach of the Year...
“I was surprised,” Wright said by phone from New York. “At the press conference I talked about Wojo (Marquette coach Steve Wojciechowski). I even said I voted for Wojo. I felt bad I couldn’t vote for Kevin (Willard of Seton Hall) because I thought he did a great job, too.”
So...Jay not in his right mind. I think you need some self reflection.
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Jay Wright on Winning Coach of the Year...
So...Jay not in his right mind. I think you need some self reflection.
Ahh you've played right into my hand. I almost included the following as a part of my original reply, but I decided to leave it out.
Jay Wright has talked up Wojo every year, every game they play, since Day 1. This always seemed weird to me. I honestly believe that he does this because he likes to have Wojo in the Big East. Wojo isn't too tough to beat, and he knows that Wojo isn't building something that's going to consistently challenge his Nova program for Big East regular season and tourney titles. But he knows Wojo is building an averagely competitive program that won't tank the reputation of the Big East. It's in his best interest to shower Wojo with praise because then all the dopey administration like Lovell and the AD will say "JAY WRIGHT LOVES WOJO HE MUST BE GOOD LET'S KEEP HIM AROUND" and ferociously pat each other on the back for hiring a coach that Jay Wright likes! So yes, Wright has given kudos to Wojo publicly, but I don't think Wright actually believes himself when he says Wojo is a fantastic coach.
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Ahh you've played right into my hand. I almost included the following as a part of my original reply, but I decided to leave it out.
Jay Wright has talked up Wojo every year, every game they play, since Day 1. This always seemed weird to me. I honestly believe that he does this because he likes to have Wojo in the Big East. Wojo isn't too tough to beat, and he knows that Wojo isn't building something that's going to consistently challenge his Nova program for Big East regular season and tourney titles. But he knows Wojo is building an averagely competitive program that won't tank the reputation of the Big East. It's in his best interest to shower Wojo with praise because then all the dopey administration like Lovell and the AD will say "JAY WRIGHT LOVES WOJO HE MUST BE GOOD LET'S KEEP HIM AROUND" and ferociously pat each other on the back for hiring a coach that Jay Wright likes! So yes, Wright has given kudos to Wojo publicly, but I don't think Wright actually believes himself when he says Wojo is a fantastic coach.
Trust Jay Wright, Doc Rivers, and Coach K on their opinion of a coach or trust an anonymous MUScoop poster. That’s a tough choice.
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Wades
Coach K and Doc are very good friends of Wojo’s. That does not carry much weight, IMO.
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Trust Jay Wright, Doc Rivers, and Coach K on their opinion of whether a coach is a good coach or not or trust an anonymous MUScoop poster. That’s a tough choice.
.....Or trust your eyes? Wojo has objectively had little success making teams more than the sum of their parts. MU has played 1 on 1 basketball all year hoping that Markus (or Rowsey or Matt Carlino or Sam) goes off for 30+ and the other team just can't keep up. Should we even break down the X's and O's of the Murray State game? Wright, Rivers, and K can spout whatever praises they want, but if you offered to them Wojo to take over Nova, the 08 Celtics, or Duke if for some reason those guys couldn't continue - you and I both know they'd look elsewhere.
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OK Cheeks-fair point regarding preparation vs. execution. I think the U. S. Grant analogy about learning from one's errors fits though. I am hoping that Wojo comes a better coach by acccepting and learning from his mistakes. Just to be clear, I am not in the "fire Wojo" camp.
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Wades
Coach K and Doc are very good friends of Wojo’s. That does not carry much weight, IMO.
I'll bite. Can you name a prominent person down on Wojo that "carry's weight"?
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Wades
Coach K and Doc are very good friends of Wojo’s. That does not carry much weight, IMO.
Do you think they’re just friends with him because their view that he has a terrible mind for the game of basketball and it boosts their confidence so that’s why they became such great friends?
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I'll bite. Can you name a prominent person down on Wojo that "carry's weight"?
Coaches/"prominent people" come out in public now talking down bad coaches?
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Rocky
No I cannot. Simple reply to wades post regarding Coach K and Doc.
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.....Or trust your eyes? Wojo has objectively had little success making teams more than the sum of their parts. MU has played 1 on 1 basketball all year hoping that Markus (or Rowsey or Matt Carlino or Sam) goes off for 30+ and the other team just can't keep up. Should we even break down the X's and O's of the Murray State game? Wright, Rivers, and K can spout whatever praises they want, but if you offered to them Wojo to take over Nova, the 08 Celtics, or Duke if for some reason those guys couldn't continue - you and I both know they'd look elsewhere.
My eyes see a guy who has improved every season and just led us to a high seed in the NCAAs but had a dreadful performance once he got there. My eyes tell me that he will continue to improve and we will be even better than we were this season.
Could other guys have been better? Maybe, probably even. Does that matter now? Nope.
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My eyes tell me that he will continue to improve and we will be even better than we were this season.
Your eyes can see the future? I think the only way anyone is going to be OK with Wojo in the long-term is if he improves A LOT.
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I do question people’s confidence that Wojo will improve moving forward. He is 43 years old, been mentored by an all time great, been on the sideline coaching some of all time best players and still looks confused in regards in game coaching. I would hope all lessons have been learned already.
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Jay Wright on Winning Coach of the Year...
So...Jay not in his right mind. I think you need some self reflection.
I would definitely compliment a coach that handed me a Big East title. It is what gracious people do.
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Coaches/"prominent people" come out in public now talking down bad coaches?
I"m just asking - if the opinion of people who say complimentary things about Wojo carry no weight, who does? Trust me, Wright/K/Doc don't throw around compliments willy-nilly.
I do question people’s confidence that Wojo will improve moving forward. He is 43 years old...I would hope all lessons have been learned already.
43 year olds can't learn new things? I think you're assumption that Wojo has peaked is very wrong.
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Rocky
Possibly he can learn to speak Mandarin or ride a unicycle, but he should have 99% of coaching chops by now. You can have confidence in his upward growth, and I respect that opinion. That said, he has been around greatness, both coaches and players, for his entire life. Part of the reason why I was in favor of the hire, after losing my top choice, was his pedigree.
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Your eyes can see the future? I think the only way anyone is going to be OK with Wojo in the long-term is if he improves A LOT.
They don't see the future. But they have seen Wojo improve every year on the job. I don't have any reason to doubt that it won't continue to be the case. As for being ok with Wojo? I will be A-OK as long as the high seeds keep coming. High seeds are the best path towards postseason success.
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I do question people’s confidence that Wojo will improve moving forward. He is 43 years old, been mentored by an all time great, been on the sideline coaching some of all time best players and still looks confused in regards in game coaching. I would hope all lessons have been learned already.
Rocky
Possibly he can learn to speak Mandarin or ride a unicycle, but he should have 99% of coaching chops by now. You can have confidence in his upward growth, and I respect that opinion. That said, he has been around greatness, both coaches and players, for his entire life. Part of the reason why I was in favor of the hire, after losing my top choice, was his pedigree.
I don't know about this. Most of the great coaches I know of were a lot better in their 50s and 60s then they were at 43. Not all but most.
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TAMU
I get called old guy all the time on here, and for good reason. The world changed and coaches are younger and younger. Furthermore, the standard of excellence is higher and learning on the job moments do not happen much anymore. You know full well that few guys getting paid millions are allowed to learn on the job for half decade.
I would think if you are 100% honest, you believed Wojo was better trained for the job than what reality showed. Why would you pick a learn on the job guy to rebuild, what some on here believe, the biggest crapshow in MU history?
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I don't know about this. Most of the great coaches I know of were a lot better in their 50s and 60s then they were at 43. Not all but most.
I think I need to give up replying. I'm not even a guy that would have Wojo's back no matter what. But folks are being illogical. Hard to compete with that.
Note, Goose, this is not directed at you.
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Rocky
All good. I am not in the camp of giving Wojo his walking papers. I am in the camp that is time to step up of the program or get his walking papers.
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TAMU
I get called old guy all the time on here, and for good reason. The world changed and coaches are younger and younger. Furthermore, the standard of excellence is higher and learning on the job moments do not happen much anymore. You know full well that few guys getting paid millions are allowed to learn on the job for half decade.
I would think if you are 100% honest, you believed Wojo was better trained for the job than what reality showed. Why would you pick a learn on the job guy to rebuild, what some on here believe, the biggest crapshow in MU history?
Are coaches getting younger and younger? When I think of the top coaches today, they are all in their 50s and 60s (and a few in their 70s).
I'm not sure I know of anyone who isn't learning on the job. I would imagine Coach K would tell you he's learning new things about being a coach every day.
What you seem to be asking is why did MU hire a guy they didn't think was ready? They didn't. They thought he was ready and so far, he has showed he was. We are through the rebuild and now have a program that is back to earning high seeds in the tournament. On paper, it looks like we should have a stronger team next season so theoretically, that trend should continue.
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TAMU
I give you credit, you scooped me in the Wojo hire five years ago and stand with your man. We obviously have different definitions of being ready and status of program. If I didn’t know better I would think you were Wojo😀 I remember well your telling me Wojo was the guy before he was the guy. I thought you were off your rocker then, and possibly still think that way.
Back to being ready, Buzz came here with his only experience was screwing a former employer. I do not remember him needing to learn in the job or folks saying he will keep learning and get better. Wojo’s resume made Buzz look like a fifth grade girls coach, yet we are watching him get his Masters degree in coaching.
I will add, while you do frustrate the hell out of me with your Wojo love, I feel the need to reply to your posts. Every time I say to myself ‘this is the post that will light the switch in TAMU basketball mind’. While I am still waiting, I think I have better chance of you having a Goose is right moment than Wojo being the savior.
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I don't know about this. Most of the great coaches I know of were a lot better in their 50s and 60s then they were at 43. Not all but most.
Yup, which is why hiring an assistant each time means we get inexperienced guys. Hungry, working hard, but inexperienced. But that's all we can get apparently.
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TAMU
We did watch Buzz learn one thing on the job, leveraging S16 appearances for more money every year..
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TAMU
I give you credit, you scooped me in the Wojo hire five years ago and stand with your man. We obviously have different definitions of being ready and status of program. If I didn’t know better I would think you were Wojo😀 I remember well your telling me Wojo was the guy before he was the guy. I thought you were off your rocker then, and possibly still think that way.
Back to being ready, Buzz came here with his only experience was screwing a former employer. I do not remember him needing to learn in the job or folks saying he will keep learning and get better. Wojo’s resume made Buzz look like a fifth grade girls coach, yet we are watching him get his Masters degree in coaching.
I will add, while you do frustrate the hell out of me with your Wojo love, I feel the need to reply to your posts. Every time I say to myself ‘this is the post that will light the switch in TAMU basketball mind’. While I am still waiting, I think I have better chance of you having a Goose is right moment than Wojo being the savior.
Goose, you don't have me pegged at all. Not even close. I have zero love for Wojo. None. If he were to be fired tomorrow I'd give more thought to my morning bowel movement than I would to Wojo from that moment on. I'd think it was mistake but my thoughts would instantly turn to who do we hire, what recruits can we keep, who's a transfer risk, who should we hope transfer....what do we need to do to move forward.
All my love is for Marquette. I will not be content until I see Marquette win a national championship with my own eyes. Do not mistake patience for love. You and I see the path forward differently. I think championship programs take time to build and progress is slow and non linear. I think it takes finding the right coach, one who not only has the chops but also a love for the game, a willingness and ability to grow, and a desire to build something here at Marquette, not to chase the next paycheck. And even when you get the right coach, you are going to have wander the wilderness in frustration for years before that championship finally comes. I don't know if Wojo is that right coach yet but to date, he's done more to prove that he is than he isn't. Until that changes, I will support Wojo because that is the best path to a championship. Not churning through coaches hoping we catch enough lightening in a bottle to win it all. Others see it differently and that's fine. But I don't see many coaches going to the Final Four in their first few years of being in a job.
I'll be honest Goose, I'm not sure I can ever have a "Goose was right" moment because I'm never really sure where you stand. I don't know if its intentional or not, but it seems like you often say one thing but mean another. You say you don't want Wojo fired, but you also say Wojo isn't very good and you don't see him improving....but you do want the basketball program to do well. You say we have the talent of a bubble team....and without good talent you need good coaching....but when we get a 5 seed, you say the coaching is bad, but still insist the talent is bad.
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TAMU
Here is where I stand:
1. I accept Wojo is our coach and hoping for the very best for program and Wojo.
2. I think our talent level is lacking, but enough that top tier coach could make better.
3. I think the season and 5 seed was fools gold. IMO we beat one good team, three months ago.
4. I believe MU is very satisfied with Wojo and the direction of the program.
5. Can Wojo get better? Yeah, probably. Might have reservations that he can take program to the level we all want.
6. While I no longer live and die with MU results, I wish we were good enough that I did.
7. My belief on MU ball is very simple. I believe it is the greatest advertising tool we have and it is not being utilized to the fullest.
8. MU and MU ball has been in my blood since the day I was born. While I get pissed at things they do, I love MU. It has been an institution that has blessed my family in many ways and very grateful for that. With that love, and some arrogance, I believe I can make educated judgements regarding their decision making. In addition, I have been blessed to have been in the right place, at the right time and understand our place in history as well as anyone on here.
9. Lastly, I want to see my Marquette Warriors win another fxxkin National Championship.
Hope that takes away any confusion.
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I'll be honest Goose, I'm not sure I can ever have a "Goose was right" moment because I'm never really sure where you stand. I don't know if its intentional or not, but it seems like you often say one thing but mean another. You say you don't want Wojo fired, but you also say Wojo isn't very good and you don't see him improving....but you do want the basketball program to do well. You say we have the talent of a bubble team....and without good talent you need good coaching....but when we get a 5 seed, you say the coaching is bad, but still insist the talent is bad.
Attend a Meat Summit and you will know exactly where Mother Goose stands on the burning issues of our day.
There is something about the Mystical Union of Man, Meat, and Fire that can lay bare a man's soul.
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TAMU
Here is where I stand:
1. I accept Wojo is our coach and hoping for the very best for program and Wojo.
2. I think our talent level is lacking, but enough that top tier coach could make better.
3. I think the season and 5 seed was fools gold. IMO we beat one good team, three months ago.
4. I believe MU is very satisfied with Wojo and the direction of the program.
5. Can Wojo get better? Yeah, probably. Might have reservations that he can take program to the level we all want.
6. While I no longer live and die with MU results, I wish we were good enough that I did.
7. My belief on MU ball is very simple. I believe it is the greatest advertising tool we have and it is not being utilized to the fullest.
8. MU and MU ball has been in my blood since the day I was born. While I get pissed at things they do, I love MU. It has been an institution that has blessed my family in many ways and very grateful for that. With that love, and some arrogance, I believe I can make educated judgements regarding their decision making. In addition, I have been blessed to have been in the right place, at the right time and understand our place in history as well as anyone on here.
9. Lastly, I want to see my Marquette Warriors win another fxxkin National Championship.
Hope that takes away any confusion.
What I'm getting from this is that you think we are heading in the wrong direction but accept that there's nothing you can do about it so you hope for the best. I guess my question is, if you could or could have done something, what would you do or have done differently?
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Attend a Meat Summit and you will know exactly where Mother Goose stands on the burning issues of our day.
There is something about the Mystical Union of Man, Meat, and Fire that can lay bare a man's soul.
Send me an invitation. If I am in town I would love to attend. I've only gotten to meet a few scooper off the interwebs but have enjoyed every encounter.
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TAMU
I think we are going the right direction at a snails pace. I highly question the program will be significantly better off in three years with Wojo in charge. I have said many times, I highly question the university’s desire to be big time. Wojo is the guy and we have to hope for the best.
If I were in charge, I would hire a guy that plays in your face D and pushes the ball. In addition, he would only recruit players that can play that style.
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Four da record invites ta da Meat Summits are extended afta much deliberation and debate bye da Executive Committee. A spot at da Meat Summit table is knot ta bee taken litely, is earned, and is a privilege, knot a right, aina?
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Enjoyed catching up after taking a couple days to chillax. This has been quite a thread.
When a coach leaves us -- shows no loyalty -- Scoopers are spurned and ticked off. We give him clever nicknames, argue whether he was better or worse than the other guy who was disloyal to us, etc. We bemoan the fact that we are a "stepping stone" job.
When a coach gradually builds our program to the point that in Years 3-5 he goes NCAA-NIT-NCAA ... goes 23-4 and earns a top-10 ranking ... does it all without a sniff of legal or NCAA troubles ... is a great public ambassador for the school ... and coaches an exciting team that draws huge crowds to an NBA arena ... well, dozens (maybe hundreds?) of Scoopers want to fire him after a bad 3-week stretch that "proved" he can't coach.
That's what's known as "passion" or being "competitive," not disloyalty.
Yep, I can see why established head coaches would be lining up for this job.
Now, let's take a look at Wojo's "competition" for the job 5 years ago:
1. Shaka: 67-66 in 4 seasons at Texas. 0 NCAA wins. 3 straight seasons with losing conference record. Got (and deserved) credit for a scintillating Final Four run in 2011, but results have indisputably been disappointing ever since -- not just trending downward but crashing hard at Texas. Nevertheless, some Scoopers "know" he is a better coach than Wojo.
2. Howland: 4th year at Mississippi State. Finally got to the NCAAs in Year 4, losing in the first round to a 12-seed -- just as Marquette did, albeit one without a top-3 NBA lottery pick. Dogged by major question marks about how he "conducted business" at UCLA, which is why he was begging anybody who would take him for a job.
3. Martin: 3 years at Cal, 1 NCAA appearance (a loss), then bolted for Mizzou. Clearly would have used Marquette as a stepping-stone school. In 2 years at Mizzou, 35-30, including 15-17 in this, his second season.
4. Manning: Not sure we ever considered him, but many Scoopers said they wish we would have. An unmitigated disaster at Wake Forest: 65-93 in 5 years, 4 losing seasons, and 11-20 in each of the last 2 years. Most Wake fans were stunned to hear he's being brought back for a 6th season.
But yeah, Wojo has to be fired because apparently K, Cal, Roy and Self will be lining up for our job this time. Or maybe the savior will be the Buffalo guy whose rump Wojo beat by 1,000 points back in December (thanks mostly to the guard we'll be better off without, of course).
Love this thread, especially after Smuggles was given a Scoopcation for attacking a guy who's been dead for years. Great stuff.
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Four da record invites ta da Meat Summits are extended afta much deliberation and debate bye da Executive Committee. A spot at da Meat Summit table is knot ta bee taken litely, is earned, and is a privilege, knot a right, aina?
Fellas,
I'll vouch for TAMU. Met him. Not bad for a Cretin grad. PM me for details.
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Rocky
All good. I am not in the camp of giving Wojo his walking papers. I am in the camp that is time to step up of the program or get his walking papers.
Glad you joined the camp, Goose, but the stepping up should have begun several years ago. We are now trending downward.
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Glad you joined the camp, Goose, but the stepping up should have begun several years ago. We are now trending downward.
No, actually we aren't. Why do you continue to reject data. We simply aren't. Now, maybe in a few years we will be, but from where we were 6 years ago, 5 years ago, 4 years ago, etc, we are trending up. Probably not as fast as you would like, but don't make false statements.
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Thread/rumor on rivals.com: wojo interviewing at UNLV
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Choir boy does Vegas?
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Four da record invites ta da Meat Summits are extended afta much deliberation and debate bye da Executive Committee. A spot at da Meat Summit table is knot ta bee taken litely, is earned, and is a privilege, knot a right, aina?
Screening Committee to be a Scoop Moderator
(http://hazinginthegreeksystem.weebly.com/uploads/1/8/3/4/18349677/7983004_orig.jpg)
Screening Committee for Meat Summit Invitations
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/AHppmhyNx8M/maxresdefault.jpg)
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/2016/08/10/USATODAY/USATODAY/636064315660575215-XXX-D01-ANIMAL-HOUSE-BLOCKBUSTER-02-DCOV-1541347-1-.JPG?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp)
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Thread/rumor on rivals.com: wojo interviewing at UNLV
Could you post where you read that and maybe provide the link.
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Thread/rumor on rivals.com: wojo interviewing at UNLV
https://setonhall.forums.rivals.com/threads/wojo-rumor.39848/
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Wojo’s coming out party. Vegas of all places for Wojo to have his first courting as a HC. Think a perfect spot to land for Wojo.
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https://setonhall.forums.rivals.com/threads/wojo-rumor.39848/
Thanks, interesting, but highly, highly improbable. Well, I guess......
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Thread/rumor on rivals.com: wojo interviewing at UNLV
Eye got sum frequent flyer points ta gift 'im four da interview flight or maebee MUpilot will bee kind 'nough ta let 'im ride on da wing ta LAS gratis, aina?
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https://247sports.com/college/north-carolina/Board/102714/Contents/Rumor-in-Milwaukee-Wojo-is-interviewing-with-UNLV-130443363/
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Dr. B
Maybe Wojo is a closet bad boy and has been pining for a place to let his hair down.
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Get the hire process rolling.
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Dr. B
Maybe Wojo is a closet bad boy and has been pining for a place to let his hair down.
Pretty sure I saw dat porno flick at da Parkway back in da dey, hey?
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Dear Jesus,
Please make Wojo take the UNLV job and I won't be cruel to liberals ever again.
Thanks,
Crash
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Dear Jesus,
Please make Wojo take the UNLV job and I won't be cruel to liberals ever again.
Thanks,
Crash
I laughed out loud on that one.
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I dunno bout wojo being in Vegas today. My son swears he saw him pass him by around mequon road and 43. Caddy Escalade with MU plates and a wojo looking dude at the helm. I didn’t think he’d be able to take in solids yet, much less drive
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Dear Jesus,
Please make Wojo take the UNLV job and I won't be cruel to liberals ever again.
Thanks,
Crash
Come on crash, this is like saying yer never having sex(with another person) again🙈
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I dunno bout wojo being in Vegas today. My son swears he saw him pass him by around mequon road and 43. Caddy Escalade with MU plates and a wojo looking dude at the helm. I didn’t think he’d be able to take in solids yet, much less drive
I am with your son's sighting.
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I dunno bout wojo being in Vegas today. My son swears he saw him pass him by around mequon road and 43. Caddy Escalade with MU plates and a wojo looking dude at the helm. I didn’t think he’d be able to take in solids yet, much less drive
driving to the airport.
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This from the seton hall board-why the seton hall board though? As opposed to say, the providence or st johnnies?
“Wojo has been getting killed for awhile by the MU fans. Muscoop looks like our board after MU 2015. 1st round bounce after taking so long to get to the ncaa's was a rough one. They have some studs coming in next year. If the new coach can keep the current team, he will look like a genius, as wojo underachieved.”
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Enjoyed catching up after taking a couple days to chillax. This has been quite a thread.
When a coach leaves us -- shows no loyalty -- Scoopers are spurned and ticked off. We give him clever nicknames, argue whether he was better or worse than the other guy who was disloyal to us, etc. We bemoan the fact that we are a "stepping stone" job.
When a coach gradually builds our program to the point that in Years 3-5 he goes NCAA-NIT-NCAA ... goes 23-4 and earns a top-10 ranking ... does it all without a sniff of legal or NCAA troubles ... is a great public ambassador for the school ... and coaches an exciting team that draws huge crowds to an NBA arena ... well, dozens (maybe hundreds?) of Scoopers want to fire him after a bad 3-week stretch that "proved" he can't coach.
That's what's known as "passion" or being "competitive," not disloyalty.
Yep, I can see why established head coaches would be lining up for this job.
Now, let's take a look at Wojo's "competition" for the job 5 years ago:
1. Shaka: 67-66 in 4 seasons at Texas. 0 NCAA wins. 3 straight seasons with losing conference record. Got (and deserved) credit for a scintillating Final Four run in 2011, but results have indisputably been disappointing ever since -- not just trending downward but crashing hard at Texas. Nevertheless, some Scoopers "know" he is a better coach than Wojo.
2. Howland: 4th year at Mississippi State. Finally got to the NCAAs in Year 4, losing in the first round to a 12-seed -- just as Marquette did, albeit one without a top-3 NBA lottery pick. Dogged by major question marks about how he "conducted business" at UCLA, which is why he was begging anybody who would take him for a job.
3. Martin: 3 years at Cal, 1 NCAA appearance (a loss), then bolted for Mizzou. Clearly would have used Marquette as a stepping-stone school. In 2 years at Mizzou, 35-30, including 15-17 in this, his second season.
4. Manning: Not sure we ever considered him, but many Scoopers said they wish we would have. An unmitigated disaster at Wake Forest: 65-93 in 5 years, 4 losing seasons, and 11-20 in each of the last 2 years. Most Wake fans were stunned to hear he's being brought back for a 6th season.
But yeah, Wojo has to be fired because apparently K, Cal, Roy and Self will be lining up for our job this time. Or maybe the savior will be the Buffalo guy whose rump Wojo beat by 1,000 points back in December (thanks mostly to the guard we'll be better off without, of course).
Love this thread, especially after Smuggles was given a Scoopcation for attacking a guy who's been dead for years. Great stuff.
I was telling alum friends of mine who were all in on fire Wojo that you don't fire 24 win coaches.
Wojo gets another shot next year and if we miss the NCAA s or we flame out then it's definitely time to have the fire Wojo discussion. My other team is the New York Yankees and they used to fire winning coaches and even they are more measured now. Girardi got 10 years and only one world series. The horror!
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driving to the airport.
Good point. I’ll ask him which direction he was going and what time
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Flight Tracker?
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Eye got sum frequent flyer points ta gift 'im four da interview flight or maebee MUpilot will bee kind 'nough ta let 'im ride on da wing ta LAS gratis, aina?
Doc, the stories I could/will tell you one day about flyin him. There’s an Amtrak available I hear?
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So, I have no idea if Wojo is interviewing at unlv or not....just the rumor would not surprise me as I have heard from (my view) reliable sources that he is pushing for an extension for a variety of reasons. Interviewing or the threat thereof helps in that endeavor for any college coach. I have also heard the higher ups in Admin not so thrilled with giving an extension at this point. Interesting times. I would guess next year is a yay or nay type decision year on Wojo.
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UNLV might be the one school dumb enough to solve our problem, or at least half of it, for us by hiring him.
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UNLV might be the one school dumb enough to solve our problem, or at least half of it, for us by hiring him.
Dumb enough and rich enough....gruden and Wojo in the same town???? There is a contrast in styles....just like the gentlemen’s clubs in that lovely sinful city
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My son said it was wojo for sure and he was going south and exited at mequon road. He said the car looked exactly like buzz’ car, official MU plates, but as black. Buzz drove a white Escalade
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I have been hoping someone will hire Wojo away. We pocket the buyout and then hire Stan.
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Doc, the stories I could/will tell you one day about flyin him. There’s an Amtrak available I hear?
Yo, forever, time for meat summit III. Between pilot and dunks, we’re gonna need a sound proof conference room. 🤷🏼♂️🙉
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Rocket
Don’t mention Meat Summit or rocky might get angry. He does not like the Summit boys taking over threads. He prefers wades&Co sharing their pearls of wisdom.
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I am not in the fire Wojo camp. But I will be happy when he leaves.
For the Civil War buffs he is George McClellan. Knows how to build an army but doesn’t know how to use it.
Admin vs Operator
I'll take hairy, smelly, knuckle-draggin' Operator every time.
Wojo gives good PR. I prefer results.
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I have been hoping someone will hire Wojo away. We pocket the buyout and then hire Stan.
OMG. Because a Wojo top assistant would be an obvious improvement. Some on this boards infatuation with Stan is stupid. He helped get Howard. Besides that, what?!
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Rocket
Don’t mention Meat Summit or rocky might get angry. He does not like the Summit boys taking over threads. He prefers wades&Co sharing their pearls of wisdom.
Doesn't Rocky live in, like, Boulder? Like, hey man, that beef causes all sorts of methane, man.
Dude, eat tofu. It's better for the planet and, like, your farts won't smell as bad.
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Rocket
Don’t mention Meat Summit or rocky might get angry. He does not like the Summit boys taking over threads. He prefers wades&Co sharing their pearls of wisdom.
Speaking of Pearls, The Pearl Necklace of Auburn is making a run. Incredible what a well-coached, focused #5 seed can do with proper guidance. Really putting the wood to Rock Chalk.
Refreshing.
War Eagle!
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Doesn't Rocky live in, like, Boulder? Like, hey man, that beef causes all sorts of methane, man.
Dude, eat tofu. It's better for the planet and, like, your farts won't smell as bad.
Not to mention the rope is legal. That’s it! Beef and cheddar is code for weed😮🤣 tofu and Cheetos, that’s some nasty gas right there
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Rocky
All good. I am not in the camp of giving Wojo his walking papers. I am in the camp that is time to step up of the program or get his walking papers.
I'm in that same camp. Still hoping but concerned. 43 is not young. Al was 47 or 48 when he retired.
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Al was hired at 34 and retired at 47. Yet, we are paying a guy a bundle to learn on the job. I try hard to take emotions out of my posts and state solid points. Wojo should be tweaking his trade, not learning it after five years.
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No worries, when wades and co vote for AOC and her green new deal, nobody will have to worry about cows and methane anymore
Well if we don't repent we only have 12 years left as a planet. Guess we won't have to worry about who replaces Wojo then, eh?
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Well if we don't repent we only have 12 years left as a planet. Guess we won't have to worry about who replaces Wojo then, eh?
I’d argue if I could
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(teal)
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(teal)
Yes.
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Wow this came out of left field. I’m not concerned about losing Wojo but I would be concerned about whether the new coach could keep the team together
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When Seton Hall fans are more level headed than your fanbase you know there's a problem...
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When Seton Hall fans are more level headed than your fanbase you know there's a problem...
Yep.
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I have been hoping someone will hire Wojo away. We pocket the buyout and then hire Stan.
What’s the infatuation with Stan? He came from Arizona, brought Markus with him (after UA never offered) and is Wojo’s right hand man in running, which I’m told, is the worst game plans in the country. What am I missing?
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Wow this came out of left field. I’m not concerned about losing Wojo but I would be concerned about whether the new coach could keep the team together
Have faith in Marquette. I hope this doesn't come to be, but if it does, MU will be just fine. MU is a great university and has all the tools for a head coach. Ignore the MU haters on this board.
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Have faith in Marquette. I hope this doesn't come to be, but if it does, MU will be just fine. MU is a great university and has all the tools for a head coach. Ignore the MU haters on this board.
Oh I have no doubt in the long run we’d be fine, if not better off. There are many coaches who would be an upgrade to Wojo. But roster turnover typically comes with a coaching change and another rebuild would really suck.
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So why is an anonymous post on a Seton Hall message board considered a source for Marquette/UNLV news?
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Just fodder and gossip over the fence, but...
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Just fodder and gossip over the fence, but...
where there is smoke....
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The SH board made me laugh.
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So why is an anonymous post on a Seton Hall message board considered a source for Marquette/UNLV news?
It was based on the national Rivals board I think.
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When Seton Hall fans are more level headed than your fanbase you know there's a problem...
What about what they’re saying is so level headed? That we have great tradition and won’t tolerate mediocrity? That’s the overwhelming sentiment from what I read
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So why is an anonymous post on a Seton Hall message board considered a source for Marquette/UNLV news?
Because we see or probably more accurately want to believe there’s a tiny glimmer of hope that we can upgrade from an obviously weak coach we know we’re stuck with at least one more year otherwise
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My son said it was wojo for sure and he was going south and exited at mequon road. He said the car looked exactly like buzz’ car, official MU plates, but as black. Buzz drove a white Escalade
Sure as chit, it wuz da old Wojo dude. Cars cum courtesy of Berstrom, hey?
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Hutch
I do believe there is nice number of scoopers grasping for that glimmer of hope. I think the rumor is more fools gold than the season was, so sitting back and waiting for updates.
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Hutch
I do believe there is nice number of scoopers grasping for that glimmer of hope. I think the rumor is more fools gold than the season was, so sitting back and waiting for updates.
I do too and I’m one of them.
And I also think it will turn out to be a load of crap rumor
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Hutch
I would be shocked if any truth to the rumor.
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Hutch
I would be shocked if any truth to the rumor.
A man driving a Plymouth can dream of a Porsche, hey?
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Like him or not, Bruce Pearl can fookin' coach, hey?
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Agreed on Pearl. Some guys just seem to win wherever they go. Those type of guys are seldom crowd favorites outside of their current job.
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My vote for Wojo’s replacement is Muffet McGraw.
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Agreed on Pearl. Some guys just seem to win wherever they go. Those type of guys are seldom crowd favorites outside of their current job.
Let's see how he does in Leavenworth. His skills may not transfer there. He has left undie swirls every place he's been.
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Dr. B
Not a fan of his, simply saying guys like him seem to win regardless of address. He might be biggest jag off ever, but I can dispute he can flat out coach.
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Dr. B
Not a fan of his, simply saying guys like him seem to win regardless of address. He might be biggest jag off ever, but I can dispute he can flat out coach.
I am not just talking about being a jag...talking about his NCAA/FBI residue that he leaves after every stop.
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Dr. B
I knew what you were talking about and my saying “guys like him” was referring to him and others under investigation.
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Dr. B
I knew what you were talking about and my saying “guys like him” was referring to him and others under investigation.
At least he bumped off one other criminal tonight.
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Oh I have no doubt in the long run we’d be fine, if not better off. There are many coaches who would be an upgrade to Wojo. But roster turnover typically comes with a coaching change and another rebuild would really suck.
Nah...I really think IF it happened, Sam would stay(he'd be a Senior, why transfer)?? Which means Joey would stay, and if Markus came back...keep those three and they'd be fine
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Nah...I really think IF it happened, Sam would stay(he'd be a Senior, why transfer)?? Which means Joey would stay, and if Markus came back...keep those three and they'd be fine
Don't forget, Joey already redshirted so a transfer would burn a year of eligibility.
The exception would be a grad transfer down the line, if applicable.
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What’s the infatuation with Stan? He came from Arizona, brought Markus with him (after UA never offered) and is Wojo’s right hand man in running, which I’m told, is the worst game plans in the country. What am I missing?
Stan recruited pretty much the whole team. He also has a better relationship with the players on the team . He could probably get more out of these kids if he was the top dog.
Other than that it’s pretty much the back up quarterback syndrome.
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Stan recruited pretty much the whole team. He also has a better relationship with the players on the team . He could probably get more out of these kids if he was the top dog.
Other than that it’s pretty much the back up quarterback syndrome.
Stan did not recruit pretty much the whole team. Wojo is the only one with fingerprints on all the recruits. He's the closer.
But having met Stan he definitely has the ability to make you want to get up and run through a wall.
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But having met Stan he definitely has the ability to make you want to get up and run through a wall.
See I have heard from friends who met him at the alumni BBQ's the exact opposite: that Stan was a pretty big pretty boy in person and very standoffish. But your version makes much more sense given his recruiting chops.
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Dr. B
Not a fan of his, simply saying guys like him seem to win regardless of address. He might be biggest jag off ever, but I can dispute he can flat out coach.
Pearl did a hell of a job coaching in the first round, where if the opposing player had just made the 3 FTs after the stoopid foul one of Pearl's well-coached kids committed, Auburn would have been the first of the four 5-seeds to lose to a 12.
But yes, Pearl does have a better resume than Wojo. If one doesn't mind a cheater (and a stoopid one who gets caught) as coach.
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Pearl did a hell of a job coaching in the first round, where if the opposing player had just made the 3 FTs after the stoopid foul one of Pearl's well-coached kids committed, Auburn would have been the first of the four 5-seeds to lose to a 12.
But yes, Pearl does have a better resume than Wojo. If one doesn't mind a cheater (and a stoopid one who gets caught) as coach.
And he turned in another school for.....cheating....and later got busted himself for....cheating. Pearl is a scumbag, but yes he can coach.
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Yup, which is why hiring an assistant each time means we get inexperienced guys. Hungry, working hard, but inexperienced. But that's all we can get apparently.
You keep saying this, chicos, but it's patently untrue.
We could get any number of mid-major coaches, as we have in the past in Dukiet and Deane -- and, for that matter, Al.
Name the top 10 mid-major coaches -- Oats, the Murray State guy, and so on -- and I'm pretty sure that if we offered Wojo money for a shot to coach a BEast program that spends big bucks on basketball and already includes the Hausers (who almost surely wouldn't go anywhere), and we probably would have our choice of several of them.
Since the Al Era (which includes Al holdovers Hank and Rick), however, we have had far and away our best success hiring the No. 1 assistant away from top programs -- KO, TC and Buzz.
Which might be what you meant, but that isn't what you are saying.
I mean, I don't know for 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure that if we called Oats today and offered him $2 million a year to come here (plus a buyout of the extension he just signed), he'd be on the next plane.
Anyhoo, this is all great fun to talk about, but it's all "mute" (as Piniella used to say) because Wojo ain't going anywhere. Including Vegas.
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Indeed, to continue my thought ... we seemingly could have gotten Cuonzo Martin or Ben Howland, neither of whom is either an unproven assistant or a relatively unproven mid-major coach.
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MU 82
Spot on. More importantly, the top assistants were found by outside group of former players. KO was hand delivered to MU, as we Crean. There is a very long list of HC’s that would jump at MU job. They have gone different direction, but of course they can hire a HC.
Lastly, it is a foolish debate at the moment. I do not believe there is any legs to the Wojo rumor.
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Indeed, to continue my thought ... we seemingly could have gotten Cuonzo Martin or Ben Howland, neither of whom is either an unproven assistant or a relatively unproven mid-major coach.
Howland would have been just fine. Proven track record from several major programs. But could we have gotten him? Martin, felt like he was playing us the whole time.
I'll believe it when I see it....high major program we get a coach from there. I mean a P6 school. I don't see it, happy to eat crow if it does.
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Howland would have been just fine. Proven track record from several major programs. But could we have gotten him?
Well, he was out of coaching and was publicly begging for the job.
As was Cuonzo, who (as you say) might have been playing us.
I do agree that some Scoopers who think we could lure away a proven, high-major coach making big bucks for a successful program are delusional.
If and when Wojo leaves or is fired, we almost surely will be choosing between an assistant at a great program and one of the mid-major flavors of the month. As usual.
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Howland would have been just fine. Proven track record from several major programs. But could we have gotten him? Martin, felt like he was playing us the whole time.
I'll believe it when I see it....high major program we get a coach from there. I mean a P6 school. I don't see it, happy to eat crow if it does.
Howland wanted the MU job, but it wasn’t too long after the SI article that painted him in a very bad light. After Buzz, I think that was a non-starter.
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Wojo is staying imo
The Marquette job is very attractive now. Same new arena as the bucks with Giannas is an emerging factor. Talent in Midwest is up and budget is good.
I believe they could attract a hc from a power 6.
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Worry about it in a few years.
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To answer the original question...Jon Scheyer.
(Totally kidding)
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Johnny Dawkins, a Duke grad who can win in the NCAA tournament
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Johnny Dawkins, a Duke grad who can win in the NCAA tournament
If Wojo produced a S16 and two NIT titles here as Dawkins did at Stanford, I shutter at the thought of the love he'd be getting from many on this board still staunchly defending him in the midst of the trainwreck we all just witnessed the last 7 games of the season. Look at those taking up arms for him still after two NCAA blowout first round losses and an NIT quarterfinal loss at the Al on top of an epic meltdown to blow a conference championship.
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T.J. Otzelberger
Nate Oats
Wardle
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If Wojo produced a S16 and two NIT titles here as Dawkins did at Stanford, I shutter at the thought of the love he'd be getting from many on this board still staunchly defending him in the midst of the trainwreck we all just witnessed the last 7 games of the season.
Took over a team coming off a 3 seed and ran them into ground. His peak was a 10 seed where he managed to string together two upsets. I would have been doubting him by year 2 and calling for his head by year 3.
A new coach needs to take what he is given and build on it.
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We could get any number of mid-major coaches, as we have in the past in Dukiet and Deane -- and, for that matter, Al.
Minor point, but I'd say the experienced head coaches MU has hired since the 1980s were from two schools -- Saint Peter's College and Siena -- that were even lower than mid-major. Probably the same deal with Belmont Abbey in the early 60s.
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Minor point, but I'd say the experienced head coaches MU has hired since the 1980s were from two schools -- Saint Peter's College and Siena -- that were even lower than mid-major. Probably the same deal with Belmont Abbey in the early 60s.
Siena is a mid major. They had been to multiple tourneys and a NIT final four under Deane. The MAAC has traditionally been a solid mid major conference.
IIRC, MU rushed to hire Deane once Dayton made a move on him.
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MU had no competition when hiring Deane. The job was basically handed off to him based off recommendation from KO. He and KO were big buddies and Cords jumped at hiring Deane because KO gave him recommendation. There were a ton of very unhappy boosters after that move. Very little work was done by MU during the process of hiring Deane.
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MU had no competition when hiring Deane. The job was basically handed off to him based off recommendation from KO. He and KO were big buddies and Cords jumped at hiring Deane because KO gave him recommendation. There were a ton of very unhappy boosters after that move. Very little work was done by MU during the process of hiring Deane.
Given where MU was at the time who would we have gone after? Weren't we still in a mid major conference?
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Galway
That was a long time ago and would have to think about other options. The whole hire happened quickly and do not remember anyone else being on a short list.
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MU had no competition when hiring Deane. The job was basically handed off to him based off recommendation from KO. He and KO were big buddies and Cords jumped at hiring Deane because KO gave him recommendation. There were a ton of very unhappy boosters after that move. Very little work was done by MU during the process of hiring Deane.
This is correct, and it always struck me as a bit odd because of How KO left and the deference given to him anyway. I appreciate what KO did on the court, but we had time. We were still trying to become a real athletic department back then, and that was an example of still being in the stone ages. In the end, it was a good thing as it showed how far we had to go.
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Given where MU was at the time who would we have gone after? Weren't we still in a mid major conference?
The term 'mid-major' is relatively new. In fact, I don't ever remember hearing it until UWM made their Sweet 16 run in 04 (05?)
Conference USA was a bad ass conference back in the day, regularly putting more teams in the tourney than the power conferences. And getting guys in the NBA.
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Billy Packer called it early on, hey?
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MU had no competition when hiring Deane. The job was basically handed off to him based off recommendation from KO. He and KO were big buddies and Cords jumped at hiring Deane because KO gave him recommendation. There were a ton of very unhappy boosters after that move. Very little work was done by MU during the process of hiring Deane.
Wasn't there also a connection between Bill Cords and Jud Heathcote, who Deane assisted at MSU prior to becoming head coach at Sienna? Aren't those the same connections he used to get Crean?
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Cheeks
Because Bill Cords was in over his head. There were many folks, that were close to the program, that could not believe Cords would take any advice from KO, let alone hire him. Bill Cords is a nice guy, but KO and Crean were spoon fed to him by outside folks. He had zero to do with their hires, aside from announcing them at PC. He did have everything to do with the Deane hire. I get the biggest laugh when folks throw out Cords praise on who he hired. Again, he had zero to do with KO and Crean.
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Mike Deane had been a pretty good D3 ballplayer. I think he went to camp with the Bucks when Kareem was still here. He jokingly said the Bucks drafted him to fill the Big O's spot.
Dan Theiss had been Deane's first recruit as an assistant coach. Later Theiss was an assistant for Deane at Siena. In '94 he was an assistant for O'Neill and was a strong voice on Deane's behalf. Also a factor in Deane deciding to take the job was Theiss joining his staff.
Deane had a nice run at Siena and in '93 turned down the head coaching spot at Northwestern. He really looked up to the late Jud Heathcote, and Jud was the one that recommended him to AD Bill Foster at NW.
Deane liked the smaller private schools which is what attracted him to Marquette and Dayton.
Tom Izzo had been a "volunteer/graduate" assistant at Michigan State when Deane was an assistant there. Seeing that Jud didn't have a need for a full-time assistant, Izzo took a job with Tulsa. Deane takes the Sienna job and Izzo returned just a few weeks after leaving East Lansing.
I remember Tom saying when Jud called to offer the position, Izzo told him, "I don't know coach. My last check was $408. Think you can afford me?"
Things worked out OK in this situation.
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The term 'mid-major' is relatively new. In fact, I don't ever remember hearing it until UWM made their Sweet 16 run in 04 (05?)
Conference USA was a bad ass conference back in the day, regularly putting more teams in the tourney than the power conferences. And getting guys in the NBA.
We were still in the Great Midwest when Deane was hired.
Deane wasn't a terrible hire. He had a pretty strong track record at Siena:
1986–87 Siena 17–12 12–6 T-3rd
1987–88 Siena 23–6 16–2 1st NIT First Round
1988–89 Siena 25–5 16–1 1st NCAA Second Round
1989–90 Siena 16–13 11–5 2nd
1990–91 Siena 25–10 12–4 NIT Quarterfinals
1991–92 Siena 19–10 11–5 3rd
1992–93 Siena 16–13 8–6 4th
1993–94 Siena 25–8 10–4 3rd NIT Final Four (3rd place)
The 1989 MAAC tourney was the one where a measles outbreak kept fans from being allowed in the arena. Pretty crazy.
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Cheeks
Because Bill Cords was in over his head. There were many folks, that were close to the program, that could not believe Cords would take any advice from KO, let alone hire him. Bill Cords is a nice guy, but KO and Crean were spoon fed to him by outside folks. He had zero to do with their hires, aside from announcing them at PC. He did have everything to do with the Deane hire. I get the biggest laugh when folks throw out Cords praise on who he hired. Again, he had zero to do with KO and Crean.
Bill grew into the job, at the time you are probably right. I think the 100th season celebration was rather telling when Deane, Crean, and KO all went out of their way to praise Cords. They didn't have to do that, he wasn't on the stage, I don't even know if he was at the event, but they went out of their way. Cords got Deane fired, so Deane was kind in giving that praise.
The way it was setup back then, the AD didn't make the final decision but absolutely was part of the committee at MU that made the recommendation. Let's not forget Crean wasn't a foregone conclusion, it was him and others which the committee sorted out with their recommendation. Quinn Snyder was in the mix until the last moment. Yes, Cords was responsible for Deane, and yes I believe they acted too quickly on that one. I also thought they acted too quickly on Buzz as Buzz was going nowhere, there were others to be had and he could easily have been the backup if we were more patient. I know you are close enough to know the crap that he was involved in and certain people here will never accept, but for the good he did on the court he was a grade A pretty boy and the actions were putting MU in some tough spots.
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Cheeks
We are in 100% agreement regarding the facts of all of those hires. As for Cords, he was a decent guy and the three coaches all probably appreciated more after they left. It was nice of the guys to send praise Cords way. I think Bill is a nice guy.
The quickness of the Buzz hire mirrored the Deane hire. Both of the hires were down by MU folks, with limited outside group help/support. I hated the Buzz hiring process to this day. Honestly, that is why I started the thread on Saturday regarding MU being prepared or not. They have log history of making knee jerk decisions.
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Cheeks
We are in 100% agreement regarding the facts of all of those hires. As for Cords, he was a decent guy and the three coaches all probably appreciated more after they left. It was nice of the guys to send praise Cords way. I think Bill is a nice guy.
The quickness of the Buzz hire mirrored the Deane hire. Both of the hires were down by MU folks, with limited outside group help/support. I hated the Buzz hiring process to this day. Honestly, that is why I started the thread on Saturday regarding MU being prepared or not. They have log history of making knee jerk decisions.
I spoke with Cords shortly after the Wojo decision came down. He was very candid and up front. His words " We felt Cuonzo was running from something and We felt Wojo was running to something"
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I spoke with Cords shortly after the Wojo decision came down. He was very candid and up front. His words " We felt Cuonzo was running from something and We felt Wojo was running to something"
That proved to be very true. Dodged a bullet by not hiring a coach who would have had one foot out the door the moment he stepped in our doorway.
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That proved to be very true. Dodged a bullet by not hiring a coach who would have had one foot out the door the moment he stepped in our doorway.
Cuonzo knew the posse was out for him at Tennessee as expectations were far too high. He left Cal because he didn't fit there and the department is in major financial chaos and isn't truly committed to winning. I think he would have stayed at MU but wouldn't swap Wojo for him.
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The actions of Buzz were most definitely putting people in bad spots, as Cheeks posted above. I was not privy to it, but I heard the stories from solid sources, and it serves nobody to elaborate. That said, I plead guilty to absolutely loving our product on the court under Buzz. I felt a bit conflicted knowing how the sausage was made.
From the day he accepted the job as steward of our proud program, I have been nothing but proud of the group of guys Coach Wojo has assembled and coached. They represent us in a world class manner. I have no doubt our basketball product is about to match the elite status of the character of the guys representing the brand. If you think these are just good students with top notch character and nothing more, boy you are mistaken. These are hard-working and tough competitors of the highest order. With talent. We’ve seen them rise and then fall. I wouldn’t bet against them.
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T.J. Otzelberger
Nate Oats
Wardle
TJ to UNLV
Oats to Bama
Wardle to Bradley
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The actions of Buzz were most definitely putting people in bad spots, as Cheeks posted above. I was not privy to it, but I heard the stories from solid sources, and it serves nobody to elaborate. That said, I plead guilty to absolutely loving our product on the court under Buzz. I felt a bit conflicted knowing how the sausage was made.
From the day he accepted the job as steward of our proud program, I have been nothing but proud of the group of guys Coach Wojo has assembled and coached. They represent us in a world class manner. I have no doubt our basketball product is about to match the elite status of the character of the guys representing the brand. If you think these are just good students with top notch character and nothing more, boy you are mistaken. These are hard-working and tough competitors of the highest order. With talent. We’ve seen them rise and then fall. I wouldn’t bet against them.
Which is why I won’t elaborate....maybe on my deathbed....but does no good now. People in the know....know. Those that are in denial or don’t know can be pissed about that or stew forever for all I care. I wish him well, glad he is gone.
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Cheeks
We are in 100% agreement regarding the facts of all of those hires. As for Cords, he was a decent guy and the three coaches all probably appreciated more after they left. It was nice of the guys to send praise Cords way. I think Bill is a nice guy.
The quickness of the Buzz hire mirrored the Deane hire. Both of the hires were down by MU folks, with limited outside group help/support. I hated the Buzz hiring process to this day. Honestly, that is why I started the thread on Saturday regarding MU being prepared or not. They have log history of making knee jerk decisions.
Yeah Cords was OK. He canned Dukiet when he saw the writing on the wall.
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Which is why I won’t elaborate....maybe on my deathbed....but does no good now. People in the know....know. Those that are in denial or don’t know can be pissed about that or stew forever for all I care. I wish him well, glad he is gone.
You have literally scores of posts claiming wrongdoing - acting as if you "know" something you clearly don't. Among the lowest people on earth are those who tell you "I know something about so and so that would make your hair curl. I can't tell you what it is, but take my word for it, so and so is evil". Character assassination by innuendo - few things are more cowardly.
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You have literally scores of posts claiming wrongdoing - acting as if you "know" something you clearly don't. Among the lowest people on earth are those who tell you "I know something about so and so that would make your hair curl. I can't tell you what it is, but take my word for it, so and so is evil". Character assassination by innuendo - few things are more cowardly.
I know volumes more than you do no this, and there are other posters here as well. The fact that irks you to no end is good enough for me. There is no innuendo, he's gone and the university is better off for it.
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I just have one question, chicos: Did you or did you not promise to reveal all about Buzz once he was gone?
I seem to remember that you did. If so, and if you don't want to be a liar, you should. Right here, right now.
If I am wrong about that, and you never did threaten/promise to reveal all ... okey dokey, I misremembered.
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Ruining lives....
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Ruining lives....
Settlements....
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I know volumes more than you do no this, and there are other posters here as well. The fact that irks you to no end is good enough for me. There is no innuendo, he's gone and the university is better off for it.
Except at the basketball level.
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Except at the basketball level.
Maybe....I like my third place position in the pool right now here on Scoop...I like that I think the tournament is a crapshoot and so does Mark Few, Coach K, and others. I like that judging a coach 4 to 5 years is appropriate, or calling the college game a guards game more than a decade ago. But to each their own. ;)
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chicos, can you please take a break from patting yourself on the back to answer the question I asked a few posts ago? Thanks!
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I just have one question, chicos: Did you or did you not promise to reveal all about Buzz once he was gone?
I seem to remember that you did. If so, and if you don't want to be a liar, you should. Right here, right now.
If I am wrong about that, and you never did threaten/promise to reveal all ... okey dokey, I misremembered.
I don't recall making that specific promise....feel free to do the work since you are making the claim....I said other shoes would drop, that I did say.
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I don't recall making that specific promise....feel free to do the work since you are making the claim....I said other shoes would drop, that I did say.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/28ae1c7b25c4e5312dc127963663e195/tenor.gif?itemid=10720462)
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I don't recall making that specific promise....feel free to do the work since you are making the claim....I said other shoes would drop, that I did say.
Thanks for the answer. I am far too lazy to go surfing through years of Scoop threads to try to catch you in a fib.
But others aren't, so we'll see!
Have a good one.
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(https://media1.tenor.com/images/28ae1c7b25c4e5312dc127963663e195/tenor.gif?itemid=10720462)
You just got done saying my choking dogs post was deleted for me and I showed you it wasn't, it was changed by me but no one deleted it. If someone wants to find what 82 thinks I might have said (he's not sure, benefit of the doubt to him), by all means have at it. To my knowledge, not backpedaling.
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Thanks for the answer. I am far too lazy to go surfing through years of Scoop threads to try to catch you in a fib.
But others aren't, so we'll see!
Have a good one.
That's fine, hopefully they are better at it than Adam.
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You just got done saying my choking dogs post was deleted for me and I showed you it wasn't, it was changed by me but no one deleted it. If someone wants to find what 82 thinks I might have said (he's not sure, benefit of the doubt to him), by all means have at it. To my knowledge, not backpedaling.
Don't worry (or do worry)...I have a key.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/hoodline.com/amp/2016/07/the-internet-archive-a-digital-library-with-roots-in-the-richmond
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Don't worry (or do worry)...I have a key.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/hoodline.com/amp/2016/07/the-internet-archive-a-digital-library-with-roots-in-the-richmond
I thought for sure you were going here...top...men
https://www.youtube.com/v/FRP0MBNoieY
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Which is why I won’t elaborate....maybe on my deathbed....but does no good now. People in the know....know. Those that are in denial or don’t know can be pissed about that or stew forever for all I care. I wish him well, glad he is gone.
Come clean or drop it. Buzz is long gone so tell all or give it a rest.
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I spoke with Cords shortly after the Wojo decision came down. He was very candid and up front. His words " We felt Cuonzo was running from something and We felt Wojo was running to something"
Yeah? How was his body language?
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Ruining lives....
What? That guy in Chicago who makes sh1t up?
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I don't recall making that specific promise....feel free to do the work since you are making the claim....I said other shoes would drop, that I did say.
I remember this clearly: you were going to spill the beans on the "Inside Bert's World"
So, either gather everyone around the fire and spill the beans in full lurid detail or shut up
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Crash
I have no doubt that Jams does have info in regards to Buzz's dealings while at MU. He has said that he would share some of that info and I wish he would do so as well. My guess is that we will wait a long time for him to share anything of substance. That said, he is correct that an assistant was not fired over a free t-shirt and a ride home. Anyone that believes that, is trying hard to believe that.
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Yeah? How was his body language?
Convincing.
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Crash
I have no doubt that Jams does have info in regards to Buzz's dealings while at MU. He has said that he would share some of that info and I wish he would do so as well. My guess is that we will wait a long time for him to share anything of substance. That said, he is correct that an assistant was not fired over a free t-shirt and a ride home. Anyone that believes that, is trying hard to believe that.
Mother Goose
I know the perfect venue for the "Sharing of the Dirt" : Meat Summit III
Summiteers can gather around a roaring fire in skins to hear the Bail Bondsman, speaking through a horse head, relate horrific tales of the vulgar and the churlish which characterized the gruesome reign of Bertram The Bald.
(https://cdn.newspunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/cremation_of_care-640x381.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/9PASD.jpg)
(https://carboncostume.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/horseheadman.jpg)
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Mother Goose
I know the perfect venue for the "Sharing of the Dirt" : Meat Summit III
Summiteers can gather around a roaring fire in skins to hear the Bail Bondsman, speaking through a horse head, relate horrific tales of the vulgar and the churlish which characterized the gruesome reign of Bertram The Bald.
(https://cdn.newspunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/cremation_of_care-640x381.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/9PASD.jpg)
(https://carboncostume.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/horseheadman.jpg)
While you’re chillin at the Bohemian Grove, could you please ask Molleck for some better refs in the BigEast? Maybe David Gergen can take a crash course after the cremation-of-care ceremony.
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I remember this clearly: you were going to spill the beans on the "Inside Bert's World"
So, either gather everyone around the fire and spill the beans in full lurid detail or shut the f#ck up
Well, you can clearly find it then here. All my posts are still here. Search is available. Happy to shut up, if others will do the same. I'm responding in kind.
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Speaking of old posts, I definitely had some concerns about Wojo and his Duke "bubble". Would he be able to coach when he doesn't have Duke like players. Would he be able deal with not getting Duke like players.
I still have questions, but not ready to give up on him.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=43397.msg606253#msg606253
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=43397.msg606451#msg606451
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Well, you can clearly find it then here. All my posts are still here. Search is available. Happy to shut up, if others will do the same. I'm responding in kind.
BS You promised "other shoes will drop". It's been 5 years and the only other shoe we've seen is the one you keep putting in your mouth.
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BS You promised "other shoes will drop". It's been 5 years and the only other shoe we've seen is the one you keep putting in your mouth.
ROFLMAOOOO! ;D
GOOD ONE....heehee. Me like... <mic drop.> :-\ Welp, I'm done here. lol
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BS You promised "other shoes will drop". It's been 5 years and the only other shoe we've seen is the one you keep putting in your mouth.
I know exactly what I said, and those posts are still there. I said nothing about a time of revealing, which is what Mike implied. You seem upset tonight, someone lose?
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....maybe on my deathbed....
Famous Last Words:
Caesar: "Et tu, Brute?"
Thomas Jefferson: "Adams lives..."
John Adams: "Thomas Jefferson still survives..."
The Bail Bondsman: "Buzz Williams is a dirty sonuvabitch..."
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Was a time period given for the replacement, 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? Is this like the weather forecast?