MUScoop

Take it for what it's worth...it;s the Post. Would've thought Creighton for 2013 since their exit fee is non-existent.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/butler_dayton_xavier_to_join_next_HWBR8nzwcf0a0rZSxkf8IM

Interesting because there were rumors that Creighton informed the MVC yesterday that they were leaving immediately.

Well, look at the bright side. With Dayton on for next year, DePaul will have someone they can beat.

Quote from: MDMU04 on March 13, 2013, 09:36:37 AM
Well, look at the bright side. With Dayton on for next year, DePaul will have someone they can beat.

We are talking University of Dayton here....not the Dayton High School for Girls.

Quote from: MDMU04 on March 13, 2013, 09:36:37 AM
Well, look at the bright side. With Dayton on for next year, DePaul will have someone they can beat.

This.

Drat, was hoping the new Big East would avoid Dayton. At least with MSG we won't have to play the conference tournament in Dayton.

(http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2013/03/13/covers/front031313.jpg)

I don't take this as anything certain. Most of the article was about the old Big East. The short discussion on the new Big East could easily be a toss in without much actual inside info.

The New BE schools are meeting today...so I wonder if we might start hearing something more than rumor even later in the day.

ABD!!!!

It would be very disappointing to have Dayton in the first group in, but if Creighton and SLU come the next year I can live with it.

So how many bids on an annual basis with this conference? I'd say 5-6, which is a high major conference if you ask me. Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova, butler, Xavier, and creighton typically make it. Question is can these teams keep it up with a tougher schedule.

Quote from: Aughnanure on March 13, 2013, 09:24:07 AM
Take it for what it's worth...it;s the Post. Would've thought Creighton for 2013 since their exit fee is non-existent.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/butler_dayton_xavier_to_join_next_HWBR8nzwcf0a0rZSxkf8IM

Post has always had a pretty solid sports department in my opinion.

Can't wait for PTM to discuss his favorite school Dayton being in the league.

Quote from: esotericmindguy on March 13, 2013, 09:55:03 AM
So how many bids on an annual basis with this conference? I'd say 5-6, which is a high major conference if you ask me. Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova, butler, Xavier, and creighton typically make it. Question is can these teams keep it up with a tougher schedule.

I don't expect Creighton to do well (at least initially) in the new Beast especially w McDermott out of the picture.  Their schedule (and conference) is filled with cupcake's filling.  Dayton used to have a good program.  What happened?  It's too bad Loyola is a shadow of what they were in the late 60's since it woul be great to have another Jesuit school rivalry.  
When's the last time Loyola of Chicago was name dropped on this (or any) message board?!?

Not sure why Dayton would get on the first year when NCAA tourney teams like Creighton and SLU (or even VCU) would generate more excitement in the first year for the conference.

Was it St. John's that was rumored to be pushing for Dayton to be included?

Quote from: TomW1365 on March 13, 2013, 10:04:43 AM
I don't expect Creighton to do well (at least initially) in the new Beast especially w McDermott out of the picture.  Their schedule (and conference) is filled with cupcake's filling.  Dayton used to have a good program.  What happened?  It's too bad Loyola is a shadow of what they were in the late 60's since it woul be great to have another Jesuit school rivalry.  
When's the last time Loyola of Chicago was name dropped on this (or any) message board?!?

Within the last couple months when some poster claimed that all they needed was admittance into this new conference, and with the new resources, they could be a success.

Not happening.

Quote from: esotericmindguy on March 13, 2013, 09:55:03 AM
So how many bids on an annual basis with this conference? I'd say 5-6, which is a high major conference if you ask me. Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova, butler, Xavier, and creighton typically make it. Question is can these teams keep it up with a tougher schedule.

I expect to see St John and Providence to improve over the next few years too.  Creighton, Dayton are going to have an adjustment period and have a 'ton' of weight problems.  Ge it?  Drum roll and laugh track please.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 13, 2013, 09:31:53 AM
Interesting because there were rumors that Creighton informed the MVC yesterday that they were leaving immediately.

I'm no expert on the subject so someone correct me if I am off here.

One of the problems Creighton may be facing for next year is they are scheduled to be in the same exempt tournament as us, the 77 Classic. Two teams from the same conference are not allowed to be in the same exempt tournament. This may be a stumbling block for them joining next year unless the NCAA makes some exceptions due to all the realignment.

Not sure if any other tournaments have this same problem for next year or not.

No idea why Dayton is being included. A crappy bottom feeder that brings nothing to the table.

Quote from: MUMonster03 on March 13, 2013, 10:08:56 AM
I'm no expert on the subject so someone correct me if I am off here.

One of the problems Creighton may be facing for next year is they are scheduled to be in the same exempt tournament as us, the 77 Classic. Two teams from the same conference are not allowed to be in the same exempt tournament. This may be a stumbling block for them joining next year unless the NCAA makes some exceptions due to all the realignment.

Not sure if any other tournaments have this same problem for next year or not.

I think this was mentioned here yesterday, but that happened a couple times this year.  And I don't think it is an NCAA concern, but a conference concern.  I am sure that both schools will get whatever waiver they need.

SLU, Creighton and Xavier (not to mention Georgetown) are not enough for you?

Quote from: TomW1365 on March 13, 2013, 10:04:43 AM
When's the last time Loyola of Chicago was name dropped on this (or any) message board?!?

Get ready to laugh

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=31057.50

Remember there were many fans, mostly Badger fans but also Rick Majerus and others predicting MU would get slaughtered in the Big East.  Predictions that we wouldn't even make the Big East tournament.

Let's not make the same mistake for Dayton, Creighton, etc.  They might do better than folks think.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2013, 10:14:33 AM
Remember there were many fans, mostly Badger fans but also Rick Majerus and others predicting MU would get slaughtered in the Big East.  Predictions that we wouldn't even make the Big East tournament.

Let's not make the same mistake for Dayton, Creighton, etc.  They might do better than folks think.

Especially as long as DePaul is in the league....

...guess the Big East decision makers wanted to bring along an intense rivalry (Xavier and Dayton).

Remember when Mike Deane was about to leave Sienna and head to Dayton until Marquette called when O'Neill left?

Dayton RPI by year...
06/07 --75
07/08 --32
08/09 --27
09/10 --39
10/11 --79
11/12 --91
12/13 --107


So most years Dayton is a respectable team that has been on a bit of a slide, but they have recently been top 100 wins every year but this one, top 50 wins 3 of the last 7 years.  Bottom line is, they shouldn't be an RPI drain on.  They may have a little tougher time of it having to play in the Big East.  They will have to get used to not being able to play Duquesne, Fordham, Rhode Island and the like.

I'm not sure they have been any better than DePaul, but they haven't been up by teams like Cuse, UL, UConn.  DePaul has been destroyed by teams that are s16, E8, Final Four teams, and even National Champs.  And they have been dealing with teams of that caliber night in and night out.  It may be a rude awakening for Dayton.  But, they may fit right in and be a good productive team that can make the tourney every couple of years as well.  Who knows, they may even get a boost from the conference and turn into a consistently good team.  

I guess my point is, they aren't the worst possible team to add.  They have a tendency of being at least ok.  I mean, it isn't like we are adding a team that typically has an RPI over 150.  

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2013, 09:55:44 AM
Post has always had a pretty solid sports department in my opinion.

May be true. I don't read the sports too much. It was the Wash Post that threw out the Siena and Detroit names right?

Also, just saw this. Hoping Sultan is right and we get some news today.

@ESPNAndyKatz: Departing new Big East presidents briefing ADs today in NYC about exit terms, expansion, commish & other plans

We have to add some teams that will be at the bottom so Marquette can be 14-4 again! All records have to add up to .500 in conference play so not everyone can be good.

Quote from: Groin_pull on March 13, 2013, 10:11:08 AM
No idea why Dayton is being included. A crappy bottom feeder that brings nothing to the table.

Fan interest and investment/commitment in basketball. They'd have the 3rd ranked attendance. And it's fine. We need our 2-3 bottom feeders so we can have multiple teams go 14-4 or and better in conference.

EDIT: Ha, said the exact same thing ^

Quote from: TomW1365 on March 13, 2013, 10:04:43 AM
I don't expect Creighton to do well (at least initially) in the new Beast especially w McDermott out of the picture.  Their schedule (and conference) is filled with cupcake's filling.  Dayton used to have a good program.  What happened?  It's too bad Loyola is a shadow of what they were in the late 60's since it woul be great to have another Jesuit school rivalry.  
When's the last time Loyola of Chicago was name dropped on this (or any) message board?!?

Well even if they got good they'd be out because of DePaul and Marquette so close. Holy Cross would've been a good add too in 1960.

Quote from: MUMonster03 on March 13, 2013, 10:27:26 AM
We have to add some teams that will be at the bottom so Marquette can be 14-4 again! All records have to add up to .500 in conference play so not everyone can be good.

Hahahaha +1

Also you are a mathematical genius!

Quote from: Aughnanure on March 13, 2013, 10:27:51 AM
Fan interest and investment/commitment in basketball. They'd have the 3rd ranked attendance. And it's fine. We need our 2-3 bottom feeders so we can have multiple teams go 14-4 or and better in conference.

EDIT: Ha, said the exact same thing ^

Bring on the army of Cavaliers, I guess (as I almost vomit in my mouth).

Anyone see PTM this AM...?

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2013, 09:55:44 AM
Post has always had a pretty solid sports department in my opinion.

Actually, come to think about it the Post may be the one of the best sources for this. Owned by Murdoch and if Fox wanted to leak info this week while everyone is in town and media attention is at its highest the Post is probably who they would go through.

PTM will hate me for saying this but I really believe Dayton and Creighton will make a jump joining this league.  They have a rabid fan following and they just needed something to bring in big time recruits.  I think the NBE will be just what the doctor ordered for those two schools.

Quote from: Aughnanure on March 13, 2013, 10:27:51 AM
Fan interest and investment/commitment in basketball. They'd have the 3rd ranked attendance. And it's fine. We need our 2-3 bottom feeders so we can have multiple teams go 14-4 or and better in conference.

EDIT: Ha, said the exact same thing ^

I think Dayton would be #2 in attendance behind Marquette.  I think Dayton drew more fans last year than Georgetown did.

Edit:  oops, forgot about Creighton.  Dayton would be #3 behind Creighton and Marquette.  Not exactly sure who #1 would be, either Creighton or Marquette.

Quote from: buckchuckler on March 13, 2013, 10:25:22 AMDePaul has been destroyed by teams that are s16, E8, Final Four teams, and even National Champs.

Let's face it... DePaul's been beaten up by pretty much everyone.  Dayton is miles ahead of where DePaul is right now.

And I expect that Dayton's attendance is going to increase, I'm not sure how much the increase will be, if Dayton is in the c7 league.  The UD Arena holds 13,435, so there is room for attendance growth.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2012.pdf

2012 attendance:

Creighton 16,665
Marquette 15,138
Dayton 12,154
Georgetown 11,283
Xavier 10,155
Villanova 8,923
St. John's 8,428
Providence 7,883
St. Louis 7,757
Seton Hall 6,941
DePaul 7,740
Butler 6,599

The UD board is salivating:
http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22855&page=8

Quote from: RushmoreAcademy on March 13, 2013, 11:56:54 AM
The UD board is salivating:
http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22855&page=8

And I am vomiting.

Quote from: RushmoreAcademy on March 13, 2013, 11:56:54 AM
The UD board is salivating:
http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22855&page=8

The same people who not so long ago mocked the C7 schools and said we'd come begging to join their league.
Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

DePaul will own Dayton.

Quote from: MDMU04 on March 13, 2013, 12:00:36 PM
And I am vomiting.

+1

Quote from: MDMU04 on March 13, 2013, 12:00:36 PM
And I am vomiting.

Yep, just not excited about Dayton. Guess I'll have to focus on the good news of Xavier and Butler joining the Big East.

Will be very interesting to see how MU handles the added pressure of being a bell-cow in the new league, especially with no pieces from the last Conf USA days around, when we had that kind of noteriety (though obviously not as strong a conf).  If Porter leaves and with our returnees/signees, gotta think we'll be earmarked as somewhat of a favorite leading up to the season.  Will no longer be able to rely on that disrespect chip in regards to our perception at least in the conference.

Buzz may have to adjust his methods a bit

I love that Dayton fans continually tout their attendance numbers instead of addressing their crappy team.

How cool! We'll get to play conference games in the very same arena that hosts the First Four!

Quote from: Skatastrophy on March 13, 2013, 12:26:06 PM
I love that Dayton fans continually tout their attendance numbers instead of addressing their crappy team.

Cub fan like

I don't know what to say. Not sure if living is really worth it now.

Is Dayton a private school?

Quote from: Skatastrophy on March 13, 2013, 12:26:06 PM
I love that Dayton fans continually tout their attendance numbers instead of addressing their crappy team.

You have to admit that pulling those numbers while not being good is kinda impressive, look at the current bad teams in the Big East, none of them draw well.

Quote from: ATWizJr on March 13, 2013, 12:30:34 PM
Is Dayton a private school?

Yes.  Society of Mary Catholic.

Quote from: MUMonster03 on March 13, 2013, 12:30:41 PM
You have to admit that pulling those numbers while not being good is kinda impressive, look at the current bad teams in the Big East, none of them draw well.

Honestly, they aren't as bad as they are being portrayed.  They usually get to 20+ wins with NIT and NCAA bids. 

Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 13, 2013, 12:03:20 PM
DePaul will own Dayton.

Are you joking or serious?

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 13, 2013, 12:33:22 PM

Honestly, they aren't as bad as they are being portrayed.  They usually get to 20+ wins with NIT and NCAA bids. 

I think most of the opposition to Dayton comes from the post by the guy who runs the UDPride website claiming we'd come pleading to the A10 to let us join their conference. Older fans might also remember the way they got the conference tournament awarded to them most every year at one point.

Well, if Dayton does come next year it just gives me an extra year to heckle their fans when the come to the BC. Perks of being a student.

Quote from: Victor McCormick on March 13, 2013, 10:13:31 AM
Get ready to laugh

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=31057.50

I don't think the DePaul fans are laughing anymore.

Vindication:
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=323640305 (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=323640305)

Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 13, 2013, 12:03:20 PM
DePaul will own Dayton.

DePaul couldn't own Tulane.

Quote from: Aughnanure on March 13, 2013, 10:55:28 AM
Actually, come to think about it the Post may be the one of the best sources for this. Owned by Murdoch and if Fox wanted to leak info this week while everyone is in town and media attention is at its highest the Post is probably who they would go through.

The Post is good for more than just sports coverage and catchy headlines.
http://takimag.com/article/a_tale_of_two_new_yorks_gavin_mcinnes/print#axzz2NLiE1VBO (http://takimag.com/article/a_tale_of_two_new_yorks_gavin_mcinnes/print#axzz2NLiE1VBO)

Quote from: The Equalizer on March 13, 2013, 01:01:06 PM
I don't think the DePaul fans are laughing anymore.

Vindication:
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=323640305 (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=323640305)

Well, not really.  

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/conferences/standings/_/id/45/horizon-conference

Quote from: The Equalizer on March 13, 2013, 01:01:06 PM
I don't think the DePaul fans are laughing anymore.

Vindication:
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=323640305 (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=323640305)

The Big East probably should invite Green Bay over Marquette because ...

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=323542739

Quote from: Pakuni on March 13, 2013, 01:24:22 PM
The Big East probably should invite Green Bay over Marquette because ...

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=323542739

No, but Green Bay would arguably be a stronger addition than DePaul. 

Give GB the TV money and you would be surprised what could be achieved.  Same with Loyola, UIC, Detroit and even Oakland.

Everybody seems to have a bold prediction here so here's mine. Depaul will be a .500 team in conference within the next 3 years. Now how do I set that as my signature?

Quote from: The Equalizer on March 13, 2013, 01:40:46 PM
No, but Green Bay would arguably be a stronger addition than DePaul. 

Sure, tell that to Fox. They're dying for a team in the Green Bay market.

But since it's arguable, what's your argument?
Better market? No.
Better tradition? No.
Better name recognition? No.
More successful? No.
Better fans? No.
Lay out your case for GB over DePaul.

Quote from: TheTulsaWarrior on March 13, 2013, 01:43:14 PM
Give GB the TV money and you would be surprised what could be achieved.  Same with Loyola, UIC, Detroit and even Oakland.

If you give a program a bunch of money that hasn't previously invested in their program, you get Fordham in the A10 or DePaul in the Big East.

I think the programs that generally succeed when they move up in a conference are those who have already made wise investments, and now are going to take that next step with their new money.  Marquette in the BE is an example.

Quote from: TheTulsaWarrior on March 13, 2013, 01:43:14 PM
Give GB the TV money and you would be surprised what could be achieved.  Same with Loyola, UIC, Detroit and even Oakland.

You mean, like Northwestern and Penn State with Big 10 money?
Or Oregon State and Arizona State with Pac 12 money?
Or South Carolina and Mississippi with SEC money?

Quote from: JDuquaine on March 13, 2013, 10:00:35 AM
Can't wait for PTM to discuss his favorite school Dayton being in the league.

Supposedly Dayton is #1 at something....Best St. Patrick's Day party school.  Also Cletus and WVU at #2.

http://www.brobible.com/college/article/best-college-st-patricks-day-parties/page-3

Know I am in the minority on this but I really do not like additions. You can argue these teams have had solid year and have been better in past few years. My concern is that these teams resumes are based off playing in lower level conferences. I am not so sure they would have looked as strong if they had played in BE the past five seasons. IMO this is step back in history. Will agree these programs have improved in recent history, but I am not confident that they have staying power for success long term.

Quote from: Goose on March 13, 2013, 02:01:22 PM
Know I am in the minority on this but I really do not like additions. You can argue these teams have had solid year and have been better in past few years. My concern is that these teams resumes are based off playing in lower level conferences. I am not so sure they would have looked as strong if they had played in BE the past five seasons. IMO this is step back in history. Will agree these programs have improved in recent history, but I am not confident that they have staying power for success long term.

So you don't like Butler or Xavier either?  Then who do you want?

Quote from: Goose on March 13, 2013, 02:01:22 PM
Know I am in the minority on this but I really do not like additions. You can argue these teams have had solid year and have been better in past few years. My concern is that these teams resumes are based off playing in lower level conferences. I am not so sure they would have looked as strong if they had played in BE the past five seasons. IMO this is step back in history. Will agree these programs have improved in recent history, but I am not confident that they have staying power for success long term.

I am sure there are 300+ schools that would give up some of their staying power for back-to-back trips to the NC game.

Quote from: Pakuni on March 13, 2013, 01:47:35 PM
You mean, like Northwestern and Penn State with Big 10 money?
Or Oregon State and Arizona State with Pac 12 money?
Or South Carolina and Mississippi with SEC money?

You can't argue that though because all of those teams have pretty successful football programs. Especially Northwestern. I don't think Green Bay would be a better addition but you never know.

Quote from: Pakuni on March 13, 2013, 01:45:43 PM
Sure, tell that to Fox. They're dying for a team in the Green Bay market.

But since it's arguable, what's your argument?
Better market? No.
Better tradition? No.
Better name recognition? No.
More successful? No.
Better fans? No.
Lay out your case for GB over DePaul.

The only school I could see making a case for is Loyola Chicago.  But even then all it takes is one good year and suddenly the largest catholic school in the country will show up in force to Depaul's games. 

I am sure that back to NC games to Butler probably does mean more to Butler. I would nor sacrifice that at long term success at MU for that. I would say that Butler success long term only happens if Stephens remains. I love the SLU story of last two years because of my fondness for Rick, but long term I see them falling back to where they were pre Rick.

Again, I am not so sure if Butler even makes NCAA those two years if they played in BE those years. It was historic run by them and I love the story. However, I do look at reality and think they might have been on outside looking in if they played BE those years.

From a basketball standpoint, it will be interesting to see if Archie Miller can replicate the success of his brother Sean as a head coach.  Sean has been successful.  

Dayton has one NCAA win in four appearances over the past two decades plus.  Two appearances under Purnell and two under Gregory.  Interesting side note for Purnell is that in 25 years as a D-1 head coach, none of his teams have ever won an NCAA game.  You have toto back to the 89-90 Jim O' Brien season to find the next NCAA tourney appearance prior to the four mentioned above.  

Quote from: esard2011 on March 13, 2013, 01:44:35 PM
Everybody seems to have a bold prediction here so here's mine. Depaul will be a .500 team in conference within the next 3 years. Now how do I set that as my signature?

I agree!  Thanks to Dayton, Creighton, Seton Hall.

Quote from: Goose on March 13, 2013, 02:11:48 PM
I am sure that back to NC games to Butler probably does mean more to Butler. I would nor sacrifice that at long term success at MU for that. I would say that Butler success long term only happens if Stephens remains. I love the SLU story of last two years because of my fondness for Rick, but long term I see them falling back to where they were pre Rick.

Again, I am not so sure if Butler even makes NCAA those two years if they played in BE those years. It was historic run by them and I love the story. However, I do look at reality and think they might have been on outside looking in if they played BE those years.

Butler has done more than that.  They have been two a couple additional S16s in the past decade under a different coach as well.

Quote from: Norm on March 13, 2013, 10:24:25 AM
Remember when Mike Deane was about to leave Sienna and head to Dayton until Marquette called when O'Neill left?

KO pushed Cords hard to hire Deane.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2013, 02:28:45 PM
KO pushed Cords hard to hire Deane.

Were those two drinking buddies? They both seemed to like their brew.

I actually think Deane was a good game-day bench coach, just wish he had been a better recruiter. Some of those wins over Cincinnati and Louisville were fun to watch - and MU didn't have near the talent those UC and UL teams had.

I was actually sitting in Sobelman's when I saw this thread.

My immediate reaction you ask?


(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m22y1hHU7A1r8d2mio1_400.gif)

Quote from: Goose on March 13, 2013, 02:11:48 PM
I am sure that back to NC games to Butler probably does mean more to Butler. I would nor sacrifice that at long term success at MU for that. I would say that Butler success long term only happens if Stephens remains.

We at Scoop have been through this before, but Butler was successful under three consecutive coaches pre-Stevens.
Between 1997 and 2007 (pre-Stevens), Butler made six NCAA appearances with two Sweet 16s, three NITs and had nine seasons with 22+ wins. They were a Sweet 16 team the year before Stevens got the job, so their success isn't simply a byproduct of his hiring.

Quote from: Norm on March 13, 2013, 02:36:36 PM
Were those two drinking buddies? They both seemed to lick their brew.

I actually think Deane was a good game-day bench coach, just wish he had been a better recruiter. Some of those wins over Cincinnati and Louisville were fun to watch - and MU didn't have near the talent those UC and UL teams had.

KO knew Deane and Crean (was in his wedding). 

Quote from: PTM on March 13, 2013, 02:40:46 PM
I was actually sitting in Sobelman's when I saw this thread.

My immediate reaction you ask?


(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m22y1hHU7A1r8d2mio1_400.gif)

Sometimes expectations are exceeded.

Sultan

Butler is a great feel good story to me. Have cheered for them past few years and loved their run. IMO it will be very tough for them down the road. The road for MU has become tougher as well due to the new conference. Time will tell.

Pakuni

I understand this has been discussed a ton her, but appreciate the reminder. All I know is outside of last few years I highly doubt if we had Butler play at home that kids would be camping out for tickets. You can evaluate their success anyway you want. I will add that I am long disappointed in their joining, just not doing cartwheels because of it. Addition of Daytin, SLU and Creighton bother me because major step backwards.

http://blackburnreview.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/new-big-east-analysis-v4-0.pdf

Dayton more than holds their own in the new Big East

Quote from: PTM on March 13, 2013, 02:40:46 PM
I was actually sitting in Sobelman's when I saw this thread.

You also pound a drink or three?

Quote from: Goose on March 13, 2013, 02:53:02 PM
Sultan

Butler is a great feel good story to me. Have cheered for them past few years and loved their run. IMO it will be very tough for them down the road. The road for MU has become tougher as well due to the new conference. Time will tell.

But again...who else do you want?   I mean, if you look at the realistic choices, Butler and Xavier seem like no brainers.

Quote from: Chips on March 13, 2013, 02:54:01 PM
http://blackburnreview.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/new-big-east-analysis-v4-0.pdf

Dayton more than holds their own in the new Big East

I'm sorry, are you asking us to take seriously an analysis that has Dayton ranked as a better basketball program than Butler, and Creighton ranked ahead of Marquette, Georgetown, Xavier and Villanova?

Quote from: Pakuni on March 13, 2013, 02:58:29 PM
I'm sorry, are you asking us to take seriously an analysis that has Dayton ranked as a better basketball program than Butler, and Creighton ranked ahead of Marquette, Georgetown, Xavier and Villanova?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha--did they take this from the bleacher report?

Quote from: Goose on March 13, 2013, 02:53:02 PM
Sultan

Butler is a great feel good story to me. Have cheered for them past few years and loved their run. IMO it will be very tough for them down the road. The road for MU has become tougher as well due to the new conference. Time will tell.

Pakuni

I understand this has been discussed a ton her, but appreciate the reminder. All I know is outside of last few years I highly doubt if we had Butler play at home that kids would be camping out for tickets. You can evaluate their success anyway you want. I will add that I am long disappointed in their joining, just not doing cartwheels because of it. Addition of Daytin, SLU and Creighton bother me because major step backwards.

Look man, we're ALL disappointed that we're losing Pitt, Cuse, Ville, etc.  It is indeed a major step back.  However, you have to agree that we made the best of a bad situation.  Situation sucks.  We made lemonade.  Who else do we invite?  Keep it at 9 teams?  Fox wouldn't have it.  Wait for the ACC to implode and try to poach Wake?  Not likely, at least not in time by Fox's watch.

Football set us back, not Dayton, Creighton, or SLU.

Quote from: Pakuni on March 13, 2013, 02:58:29 PM
I'm sorry, are you asking us to take seriously an analysis that has Dayton ranked as a better basketball program than Butler, and Creighton ranked ahead of Marquette, Georgetown, Xavier and Villanova?

I needed that laugh.  Thanks!

Quote from: Chips on March 13, 2013, 02:54:01 PM
http://blackburnreview.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/new-big-east-analysis-v4-0.pdf

Dayton more than holds their own in the new Big East

I work in spreadsheets pretty much every day.  Here is my assessment:

Why kick out ECU, SMU, Navy for Dayton?  Makes no sense.

If Dayton is in, let's all feel better about it by treating Dayton as a substitute for a team that the Big East was losing anyway, but not 'Cuse or Louisville or Pitt or Notre Dame:  how about Rutgers?

Quote from: esard2011 on March 13, 2013, 01:44:35 PM
Everybody seems to have a bold prediction here so here's mine. Depaul will be a .500 team in conference within the next 3 years. Now how do I set that as my signature?

If that happens, we are truly a mid-major conference.

Quote from: LancesOtherNut on March 13, 2013, 03:06:09 PM
I work in spreadsheets pretty much every day.  Here is my assessment:

Post of the month!!  

Quote from: Pakuni on March 13, 2013, 02:58:29 PM
I'm sorry, are you asking us to take seriously an analysis that has Dayton ranked as a better basketball program than Butler, and Creighton ranked ahead of Marquette, Georgetown, Xavier and Villanova?

Did you even look at the sheet? 

Quote from: Chips on March 13, 2013, 03:11:25 PM
Did you even look at the sheet? 

Obviously he did.

Nowhere does it say that Dayton is better than Butler basketball-wise

Nowhere does it say that Dayton is better than Butler basketball-wise, and Creighton is better than the schools listed as a program.  Relax.

Quote from: LancesOtherNut on March 13, 2013, 03:06:09 PM
I work in spreadsheets pretty much every day.  Here is my assessment:

(http://i.imgur.com/u8awa.gif)

Man, I have GOT to give props to Jersey guy.  He said weeks ago that the meeting would be Wednesday (today) and that the new members would be priority in discussion.  

Quote from: Pakuni on March 13, 2013, 02:58:29 PM
I'm sorry, are you asking us to take seriously an analysis that has Dayton ranked as a better basketball program than Butler, and Creighton ranked ahead of Marquette, Georgetown, Xavier and Villanova?

The in-depth "analysis" consists of ranking the basketball teams on their W-L record this year, including non-conf cupcakes.  By that measure Dayton is behind Albany, Kent St, E Carolina, Wright St, Gardener-Webb, and Elon (which, to be honest, I did not know was a university), and tied with Texas-Arlington.

Quote from: Chips on March 13, 2013, 03:15:45 PM
Nowhere does it say that Dayton is better than Butler basketball-wise, and Creighton is better than the schools listed as a program.  Relax.

So... how does Dayton "more than hold their own?"

Quote from: Chips on March 13, 2013, 03:14:31 PM
Nowhere does it say that Dayton is better than Butler basketball-wise

Except the line where it ranks the schools simply based on overall average ranking.  

Quote from: CaptainAwesome on March 13, 2013, 03:18:07 PM
So... how does Dayton "more than hold their own?"

Cmon dude. Their women's bball team is killer!  That is the real issue here.  Plus Dayton beat us like 6 years ago.  That totally makes MU afraid of them. 

Quote from: Chips on March 13, 2013, 03:11:25 PM
Did you even look at the sheet? 

How exactly do you think I would have known the rankings if I didn't look at the sheet?
It's a stupid, lazy analysis because it gives all factors - from graduation rate to attendance to tournament appearances - equal weight, when obviously they are not equal.
Even worse, it compares factors without any context. I mean, yeah, Creighton does have a better winning pct. than Georgetown over the last decade. But do you think it might matter just a bit that Georgetown spent the last decade in the Big East while Creighton played in the Missouri Valley?

I'm sure whoever put that together spent a lot of time on it and thinks they're really smart. They're not.

Quote from: MU B2002 on March 13, 2013, 03:18:21 PM

Except the line where it ranks the schools simply based on overall average ranking.  

Again, read the sheet.  That is based on overall athletic department performance counting in olympic sports and academics.  Obviously Men's basketball is by far most important, but overall Dayton's athletic department is very comparable.

I love that the chart used winning percentage.  It is like the teams were playing equivalent schedules.  

^  Hmm beat me to it.  Oh well. 

Quote from: Chips on March 13, 2013, 03:14:31 PM
Nowhere does it say that Dayton is better than Butler basketball-wise

Except where it has "Men's basketball only rank."
Did you even look at the sheet?

Quote from: TSmith34 on March 13, 2013, 03:17:55 PM
The in-depth "analysis" consists of ranking the basketball teams on their W-L record this year, including non-conf cupcakes.  By that measure Dayton is behind Albany, Kent St, E Carolina, Wright St, Gardener-Webb, and Elon (which, to be honest, I did not know was a university), and tied with Texas-Arlington.

Another thing that the spreadsheet does, is intentionally start the comparison in a year Dayton made the NCAA tourney, not prior nor since.  

Quote from: Pakuni on March 13, 2013, 03:22:15 PM
Except where it has "Men's basketball only rank."
Did you even look at the sheet?

So you're saying that a team that barely got the 12th seed in the A10 is 6th in the new Big East?

Well, it's 5 o'clock somewhere...

Just for the record.  I don't think Dayton has beaten Xavier at Xavier in like 30+ years.  Supposedly that is a really intense rivalry. 

Where is Richmond in this spreadsheet?  It is titled "prospective" members analysis.  Richmond is (was?) a prospect.

Quote from: Chips on March 13, 2013, 02:54:01 PM
http://blackburnreview.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/new-big-east-analysis-v4-0.pdf

Dayton more than holds their own in the new Big East

And why aren't you including Women's Golf, eh?  Answer me that!

Its just the sort of cherry picked shoddy analysis we've come to expect from UDPride

Quote from: buckchuckler on March 13, 2013, 03:25:44 PM
Just for the record.  I don't think Dayton has beaten Xavier at Xavier in like 30+ years.  Supposedly that is a really intense rivalry. 

UWM is first alternate based on their intense rivalry with Marquette.

If this turns out to be true, then congratulations and welcome to Dayton.   Apparently, the powers that be decided to take a Flyer on you.    Let's hope it works out. 

Quote from: tower912 on March 13, 2013, 03:39:26 PM
If this turns out to be true, then congratulations and welcome to Dayton.   Apparently, the powers that be decided to take a Flyer on you.    Let's hope it works out. 

HEYOOOOOOOOO

In Dayton's defense, they seem to have good attendance for being a non-tourny team.

Give them an improved schedule (in the new conference) and they should be able to draw really well.

If that translates to success, I have not idea... but it's a start.

Check out what these guys on the Xavier board are saying

http://www.xavierhoops.com/showthread.php?24535-Catholic-7-News/page66

and also see Page 67

One guy makes a good point--Murdoch owns FOX and the NY Post (some evidence, how ever little, that the story is legit).  However, nobody has ever mentioned Dayton as the 10th team (some evidence that the guy made up Dayton, a la the Post Siena-Detroit).  This guy says he has sources that say dayton is "shocking" to them.  Take it for what it's worth.

Quote from: TomW1365 on March 13, 2013, 10:04:43 AM
I don't expect Creighton to do well (at least initially) in the new Beast especially w McDermott out of the picture.  Their schedule (and conference) is filled with cupcake's filling.  Dayton used to have a good program.  What happened?  It's too bad Loyola is a shadow of what they were in the late 60's since it woul be great to have another Jesuit school rivalry.  
When's the last time Loyola of Chicago was name dropped on this (or any) message board?!?

Maybe never since their last shot at glory was in the preinternet era when they got to the sweet sixteen behind "the man with three first names", Alfredrick Hughes.

Quote from: Chips on March 13, 2013, 02:54:01 PM
http://blackburnreview.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/new-big-east-analysis-v4-0.pdf

Dayton more than holds their own in the new Big East

Nice criteria...women's volleyball record...men's soccer record...

Seriously, all that is nice but ultimately irrelevant.

Quote from: LancesOtherNut on March 13, 2013, 03:06:09 PM
I work in spreadsheets pretty much every day.  Here is my assessment:

Did you need a special macro to run that one Lance?

Quote from: Chips on March 13, 2013, 03:21:30 PM
Again, read the sheet.  That is based on overall athletic department performance counting in olympic sports and academics.  Obviously Men's basketball is by far most important, but overall Dayton's athletic department is very comparable.

Let me be more clear.  No one cares about your volleyball program when it comes to expansion. 

Quote from: Chips on March 13, 2013, 02:54:01 PM
http://blackburnreview.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/new-big-east-analysis-v4-0.pdf

Dayton more than holds their own in the new Big East

I love soccer, but putting it in there to bolster your argument is a huge stretch.  The basketball records is also a big stretch because they have been done against different levels of competition.  Creighton may have the best record over the last 10 years, but what would their record have been if they played the same schedule as the C7 teams...certain worse.

I think if you want more credibility, strip out the other sports, add in RPI or Sagarin ratings for the last 10 years.  Add things like players in the NBA, etc.  Basketball is going to drive this, so it should be about basketball when making this comparison.

Quote from: Chips on March 13, 2013, 03:21:30 PM
Again, read the sheet.  That is based on overall athletic department performance counting in olympic sports and academics.  Obviously Men's basketball is by far most important, but overall Dayton's athletic department is very comparable.

Olympic sports and graduation rates are non-starters. No one cares.

topper/Rocky/Sprial...you guys may have to close registration to Scoop like UDPride did.

Quote from: PTM on March 13, 2013, 04:36:14 PM
Olympic sports and graduation rates are non-starters. No one cares.

topper/Rocky/Sprial...you guys may have to close registration to Scoop like UDPride did.

They can't do that! Where would we get all of our information about Dayton's awesome attendance from?

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on March 13, 2013, 03:47:27 PM
In Dayton's defense, they seem to have good attendance for being a non-tourny team.

Give them an improved schedule (in the new conference) and they should be able to draw really well.

If that translates to success, I have not idea... but it's a start.

1.) Dayton plays in Dayton, which is known for...uh...um...University of Dayton? There's nothing to do there, of course they get good attendance. It's the one thing to do in that city other than tricking out your mid-90's Cavalier.

2.) They've always had solid attendance, but have progressively been worse overtime. Their trend is down, down and down.

3.) History has shown that regardless of income/opportunity, Dayton never reinvests into their basketball program. It brings all the Dayton boys to the yard, but they're like damn let's take the money and not keep a head coach, improve our arena, improve our player amenities, etc.

Quote from: MDMU04 on March 13, 2013, 04:41:24 PM
They can't do that! Where would we get all of our information about Dayton's awesome attendance from?

But if they don't, they will have to start sub-forums for all these Olympic sports that are so important.

I like this news just for the fact when the truth comes out and Dayton isn't in, all that excitement is blown up.

Quote from: Warriors10 on March 13, 2013, 04:51:55 PM
I like this news just for the fact when the truth comes out and Dayton isn't in, all that excitement is blown up.

If they would announce that Dayton will never be considered for the Big East, ever, I'll throw a party at Upper 90.

The success of the league will primarily depend on the coaches each schools has and their commitment by the administration to put high major talent on the court. If some schools don't cut it (give them around 5 years) the league can ask them to leave. When Coach K, Williams (UNC), Calapari  et al leave, their programs will decline. Look how long it took Indiana to become competitive again. It is my opinion that the success of each program depends on the coach.

Quote from: MUMonster03 on March 13, 2013, 10:08:56 AM
I'm no expert on the subject so someone correct me if I am off here.

One of the problems Creighton may be facing for next year is they are scheduled to be in the same exempt tournament as us, the 77 Classic. Two teams from the same conference are not allowed to be in the same exempt tournament. This may be a stumbling block for them joining next year unless the NCAA makes some exceptions due to all the realignment.

Not sure if any other tournaments have this same problem for next year or not.

No problem with Creighton & Marquette in the Direct TV. That has nothing to do with the league. NCAA doesn't run realignment or have control.

I'd honestly rather have 9 teams than Dayton.

Run a 16 game round robin schedule and call it done. Add SLU and Creighton when possible. Stay at 11 until you get an opportunity to add a quality program. Heck, wait to see if any more quality A-10 teams bubble up to the top of that conference, and poach them once they prove themselves. Run the A-10 like the Big East minor league it truly is. Why rush and add their 10th best team?

I know FOX Sports wants 12 teams. But are they willing to give us more $$$ per team for it?

Does Dayton sell beer in their arena?  This is more important than their soccer team.

For what it's worth I say include Dayton. Always felt the socio economic demographic of the Dayton student mirrored MU, albeit with a East Coast slant.  The Ghetto and Dark Side always had a MU feel to it.  Their program is on the decline but will be on par with Seton Hall in the "upper" bottom third of the conference.  I actually like the passion of the fans, even though they are completely jaded. The worst game I've seen MU game play in the past 6 years was that game Gregory out coached Buzz at the Sears Center

Quote from: Victor McCormick on March 13, 2013, 05:16:40 PM
I'd honestly rather have 9 teams than Dayton.

Run a 16 game round robin schedule and call it done. Add SLU and Creighton when possible. Stay at 11 until you get an opportunity to add a quality program. Heck, wait to see if any more quality A-10 teams bubble up to the top of that conference, and poach them once they prove themselves. Run the A-10 like the Big East minor league it truly is. Why rush and add their 10th best team?

I know FOX Sports wants 12 teams. But are they willing to give us more $$$ per team for it?

No reasons not to go to 10. Everyone plays an 18-game conference schedule now. Plus its uneven so one team will be inactive every weekend.

Quote from: Knight Commission on March 13, 2013, 05:36:09 PM
For what it's worth I say include Dayton. Always felt the socio economic demographic of the Dayton student mirrored MU, albeit with a East Coast slant.  The Ghetto and Dark Side always had a MU feel to it.  Their program is on the decline but will be on par with Seton Hall in the "upper" bottom third of the conference.  I actually like the passion of the fans, even though they are completely jaded. The worst game I've seen MU game play in the past 6 years was that game Gregory out coached Buzz at the Sears Center

ABD Knight!! What are you, from the Cincy are or something?

Can I say something positive about Dayton? They have a love of partying that would rival 80's era Marquette. Really, really fun place.

Quote from: Norm on March 13, 2013, 05:42:56 PM
ABD Knight!! What are you, from the Cincy are or something?

Slightly better option than the other U of D (Titans) that you want.

I've been rooting for Dayton all along, so, if true, huzzah.

Quote from: tower912 on March 13, 2013, 05:57:34 PM
I've been rooting for Dayton all along, so, if true, huzzah.

I'm unabashedly in the UD camp as well. All the UD alumna I know I like a lot.

I don't know anyone from Richmond or VCU. I stick with my own.

Quote from: Knight Commission on March 13, 2013, 05:51:51 PM
Slightly better option than the other U of D (Titans) that you want.

I only want the Titans if it means Dayton is out. I've never advocated for UDM to join, just pointed out some positives if they were included.

Quote from: Knight Commission on March 13, 2013, 05:36:09 PM
For what it's worth I say include Dayton. Always felt the socio economic demographic of the Dayton student mirrored MU, albeit with a East Coast slant.  The Ghetto and Dark Side always had a MU feel to it.  Their program is on the decline but will be on par with Seton Hall in the "upper" bottom third of the conference.  I actually like the passion of the fans, even though they are completely jaded. The worst game I've seen MU game play in the past 6 years was that game Gregory out coached Buzz at the Sears Center

Just throwing my two cents in, but I do agree that they fit in with us really well culturally.  I live in Denver, and for whatever reason, almost half of my friends out here are UD alums.   

They all know how to have a really good time, and have a ton of passion and pride in their school--to an extent that I would say is not matched by most schools.

There are a lot of Chicagolanders that go there, and tend to come down to choosing between MU and UD.  I think the two schools offer pretty similar experiences, and turn out really good people. 

Now, I'm not saying that their basketball program is great, or that should decide the whole thing.  But, I think people get a little carried away with the whole anti-Dayton thing. 

And, at the end, while they have not been a great program, they aren't that far off, as others have noted.  I think the biggest thing that they've suffered from is being a stepping stone--lost a couple of good coaches over the years to major conferences.  If they are elevated to the Big East, they might even have a better chance of getting a good coach to stick around and build some momentum.  So, while I agree they are definitely not the same caliber as X or Butler, I don't think the downside is generally as bad as most make it out to be.

Quote from: Norm on March 13, 2013, 06:04:03 PM
I only want the Titans if it means Dayton is out. I've never advocated for UDM to join, just pointed out some positives if they were included.

Sorry. I should of said UDM not U of D.  That in itself says a lot.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2013, 09:55:44 AM
Post has always had a pretty solid sports department in my opinion.

This article was written by Don Burke, a Marquette grad. He was my RA in McCormick.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/march_badness_gS3MN56DxZzLby80Th9m2J

Quote from: Blue Horseshoe on March 13, 2013, 01:03:48 PM
The Post is good for more than just sports coverage and catchy headlines.
http://takimag.com/article/a_tale_of_two_new_yorks_gavin_mcinnes/print#axzz2NLiE1VBO (http://takimag.com/article/a_tale_of_two_new_yorks_gavin_mcinnes/print#axzz2NLiE1VBO)

No its not. The idea that the Post represents more than New Yorkers who are white reactionaries is total nonsense that could only come from a white reactionary like Taki. Granted there are some good writers like Brooks and Mushnick there, but getting past the typical Murdoch BS to find them just isn't worth the trouble.

Quote from: Mutaman on March 13, 2013, 06:39:33 PM

No its not. The idea that the Post represents more than New Yorkers who are white reactionaries is total nonsense that could only come from a white reactionary like Taki. Granted there are some good writers like Brooks and Mushnick there, but getting past the typical Murdoch BS to find them just isn't worth the trouble.

To each their own.  Plenty of BS at the other papers in town as well....lots of bloviating as well. 

Interesting...

A report in the New York Post Wednesday said Dayton, will join Xavier and Butler as additions to the seven next season and Creighton and Saint Louis would join in 2014. But Lenn Robbins who wrote the story then told our Doug Harris late Wednesday afternoon that he'd head Dayton would be the last team him.

He said the reference was to the 12th team in, not the 10th.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/throughthearch/entries/2013/03/13/dayton_and_the_new_big_east.html/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/throughthearch/entries/2013/03/13/dayton_and_the_new_big_east.html/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

Quote from: Jet915 on March 13, 2013, 07:07:53 PM
Interesting...

A report in the New York Post Wednesday said Dayton, will join Xavier and Butler as additions to the seven next season and Creighton and Saint Louis would join in 2014. But Lenn Robbins who wrote the story then told our Doug Harris late Wednesday afternoon that he'd head Dayton would be the last team him.

He said the reference was to the 12th team in, not the 10th.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/throughthearch/entries/2013/03/13/dayton_and_the_new_big_east.html/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/throughthearch/entries/2013/03/13/dayton_and_the_new_big_east.html/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

This would be more consistent with previous "leaks."

Pretty blatant mistake if true.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2013, 07:07:38 PM

To each their own.  Plenty of BS at the other papers in town as well....lots of bloviating as well. 

Except you're moving the goalposts. We're not talking about "the other papers in town". We're talking about the idea that the Post speaks to anyone other than white reactionaries, or that its good for something other than its sports coverage. 

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9049766/source-new-big-east-announce-additional-members-7-10-days

Andy Katz is now saying that we'll officially know in 7-10 days.  "Dayton and [SLU] are also candidates, with Richmond probably a longshot"

If not Richmond then who for 12?  Looks like it's Dayton to me

The 7-10 days makes sense.  Somebody on the Xavier board said that he heard that they are going to wait until the A10 tourney finishes.

Quote from: Mutaman on March 13, 2013, 07:38:40 PM
Except you're moving the goalposts. We're not talking about "the other papers in town". We're talking about the idea that the Post speaks to anyone other than white reactionaries, or that its good for something other than its sports coverage. 

It reminds me of the classic line from the movie "Top Secret" where the jail warden explains the man who will interogate Val Kilmer.  "This is Claus and he only believes what he reads in The New York Post."

Quote from: Mutaman on March 13, 2013, 07:38:40 PM
Except you're moving the goalposts. We're not talking about "the other papers in town". We're talking about the idea that the Post speaks to anyone other than white reactionaries, or that its good for something other than its sports coverage. 

What's a white reactionary? Bloomberg sh!tting himself over soda sizes?

Quote from: warrior07 on March 13, 2013, 09:14:55 PM
What's a white reactionary? Bloomberg sh!tting himself over soda sizes?

Bloomberg's a Jewish centrist, albeit a very rich one. A white reactionary is somebody who uses words like "bloviating".

Xavier fan, here. I come in peace.

Really excited that we are finally in a league with all of our long term Catholic partners.

I go back as far as Al McGuire coming to Schmidt Fielldhouse and road trips to Milwaukee to see X - Marquette games in the MECCA, before it was called that.

I am also proud to say that I was present in the Omni in Atlanta in 1977 for the Marquette Final 4 and National Championship. I still have the ticket stub.

By the way. Robbins in the NY Post has already pulled back on his column of this morning. He is now saying that he "heard" that Dayton will be the last team in, but not in 2013.

Butler, Creighton and X next year. book it! Should be fun.

Quote from: Masterofreality on March 13, 2013, 09:27:33 PM
Xavier fan, here. I come in peace.

Really excited that we are finally in a league with all of our long term Catholic partners.

I go back as far as Al McGuire coming to Schmidt Fielldhouse and road trips to Milwaukee to see X - Marquette games in the MECCA, before it was called that.

I am also proud to say that I was present in the Omni in Atlanta in 1977 for the Marquette Final 4 and National Championship. I still have the ticket stub.

By the way. Robbins in the NY Post has already pulled back on his column of this morning. He is now saying that he "heard" that Dayton will be the last team in, but not in 2013.

Butler, Creighton and X next year. book it! Should be fun.

Go Redlegs! Is this the year?

Just adding my 2 cents.

As I've said before, I think the whole lack of achievement argument against Dayton boils down to Brian Gregory unfortunately underachieving.

IMO, Dayton can get to the level of Butler and Xavier, I don't see anything inherent in the Dayton program holding the program back.

Purnell left UD in good shape, the program was primed to take a step forward.  Unfortunately, BG just didn't get it done.

I guess you could argue that they should have paid Purnell more and kept him, but I've read on udpride that many of the UD fans were ready to move on from Purnell, they felt that Purnell wasn't doing a good enough job to warrant a big pay increase, but they certainly weren't going to fire Purnell either.

Previous to Purnell, Jim O'Brien struggled.  Previous to O'Brien was longtime coach Donoher.

Neither O'Brien or BG would have been given a pay increase.  IMO, with BG, things were nearing the point that BG might have been fired eventually.  A big reason BG got the GT job was because GT was in a financial predicament with the Paul Hewitt contract.

If Archie Miller doesn't work out, then I won't know what to think.  Perhaps if Archie doesn't work out, UD should change their method of hiring head coaches.

Quote from: Masterofreality on March 13, 2013, 09:27:33 PM
Xavier fan, here. I come in peace.

Really excited that we are finally in a league with all of our long term Catholic partners.

I go back as far as Al McGuire coming to Schmidt Fielldhouse and road trips to Milwaukee to see X - Marquette games in the MECCA, before it was called that.

I am also proud to say that I was present in the Omni in Atlanta in 1977 for the Marquette Final 4 and National Championship. I still have the ticket stub.

By the way. Robbins in the NY Post has already pulled back on his column of this morning. He is now saying that he "heard" that Dayton will be the last team in, but not in 2013.

Butler, Creighton and X next year. book it! Should be fun.

Welcome, we come in peace to kick a*s.

Seriously, welcome to the best conference in basketball. Glad to have you guys and hope to see you personally at the Bradley Center. It's across the street from the Milwaukee Arena/

Little bigger than the old Arena but if I may warn you, we lose here about as often as we did at the Arena.

Quote from: Masterofreality on March 13, 2013, 09:27:33 PM
Xavier fan, here. I come in peace

Welcome and please join us in the Dayton hate.

Quote from: Masterofreality on March 13, 2013, 09:27:33 PM
Xavier fan, here. I come in peace.

Really excited that we are finally in a league with all of our long term Catholic partners.

I go back as far as Al McGuire coming to Schmidt Fielldhouse and road trips to Milwaukee to see X - Marquette games in the MECCA, before it was called that.

I am also proud to say that I was present in the Omni in Atlanta in 1977 for the Marquette Final 4 and National Championship. I still have the ticket stub.

By the way. Robbins in the NY Post has already pulled back on his column of this morning. He is now saying that he "heard" that Dayton will be the last team in, but not in 2013.

Butler, Creighton and X next year. book it! Should be fun.

Welcome!  We are happy to have X playing in the conference.  Dayton, not so much (and I personally am still going strong against VCU).  Good luck in the A10 tourney, make us proud.

Quote from: Masterofreality on March 13, 2013, 09:27:33 PM
Xavier fan, here. I come in peace.

Really excited that we are finally in a league with all of our long term Catholic partners.

I go back as far as Al McGuire coming to Schmidt Fielldhouse and road trips to Milwaukee to see X - Marquette games in the MECCA, before it was called that.

I am also proud to say that I was present in the Omni in Atlanta in 1977 for the Marquette Final 4 and National Championship. I still have the ticket stub.

By the way. Robbins in the NY Post has already pulled back on his column of this morning. He is now saying that he "heard" that Dayton will be the last team in, but not in 2013.

Butler, Creighton and X next year. book it! Should be fun.

Couldn't be happier that you guys are in. Welcome. 

At least in the new conference tourney, Dayton is guaranteed the 12 seed.  He-yooooo

I will refuse to recognize Dayton in the conference. Every game against then I'll have to post 'Why did Buzz schedule a buy game in the middle of conference play?'

Quote from: PTM on March 13, 2013, 10:16:11 PM
I will refuse to recognize Dayton in the conference. Every game against then I'll have to post 'Why did Buzz Larry schedule a buy game in the middle of conference play?'

FIFY.

Also... if Dayton is in this conference, the pre-game video at the BMO Harris Bradley Center needs to involve Cavaliers getting smashed.

Quote from: Mutaman on March 13, 2013, 09:25:39 PM
Bloomberg's a Jewish centrist, albeit a very rich one. A white reactionary is somebody who uses words like "bloviating".

Does that make someone who uses phrases like "white reactionary" on a college basketball forum a bloviator?

(note: You don't have to answer. We already know.)

Quote from: Pakuni on March 13, 2013, 10:29:58 PM
Does that make someone who uses phrases like "white reactionary" on a college basketball forum a bloviator?

(note: You don't have to answer. We already know.)

Just responding to the dude's posting that Murdoch's rag has some merit to it. i know you wouldn't want me to let foolish statements go unanswered.

Quote from: Mutaman on March 13, 2013, 10:42:00 PM
Just responding to the dude's posting that Murdoch's rag has some merit to it. i know you wouldn't want me to let foolish statements go unanswered.

Everyone has a different opinion of things.  Several MU alums write for the Post sports pages, one was a copywriter that posts here on this board. 

You don't like it, that's cool.  What you find meritous, others may not.  Lets leave race out of it.

Thanks

I think many X fans know where the BC is. They played in the bc in the ncaa tourney couple of years ago.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2013, 10:52:34 PM
Everyone has a different opinion of things.  Several MU alums write for the Post sports pages, one was a copywriter that posts here on this board. 

You don't like it, that's cool.  What you find meritous, others may not.  Lets leave race out of it.

Thanks

I'm all for the Kimbaya but how can you leave race out of it when you're talking about Rupert Murdoch or the people he sells his product to? The man made zillions pushing the Southern Strategy.

Quote from: dgies9156 on March 13, 2013, 09:33:24 PM


Seriously, welcome to the best conference in basketball.

X is going to the ACC? 

Quote from: Mutaman on March 13, 2013, 09:25:39 PM
A white reactionary is somebody who uses words like "bloviating".

Actually, I believe Chico is Hispanic. Or that's what Hoop mentioned.

Quote from: dayton flyers on March 13, 2013, 09:31:14 PM
Just adding my 2 cents.

Despite my brethren here, I would like to welcome Dayton posters.  My apologies for the brutality of our bunch.  Some of it was caused by your very own "UD Pride" moderator.  Some of it is unwarranted.

Regardless, if Dayton joins the New Big East I am hoping it is the next step for your program.

[Quie author=MarquetteDano link=topic=36976.msg467402#msg467402 date=1363234072]
Despite my brethren here, I would like to welcome Dayton posters.  My apologies for the brutality of our bunch.  Some of it was caused by your very own "UD Pride" moderator.  Some of it is unwarranted.

Regardless, if Dayton joins the New Big East I am hoping it is the next step for your program.
[/quote]

Quit sucking up to the new kid, douche.

Also, I've heard that Purnell wanted to move on too, so I don't know if he would have been open to staying any longer than he did.  Xavier can't keep any of their successful coaches either.

If UD is a member of this new league, then it will be interesting to have Purnell back at UD Arena.

Quick, lets get Dayton a FB team!

Or a papal decree to keep them out!

Also, I'm skeptical that Iowa and DePaul were seriously interested in BG in 2010 after Lickliter and Wainwright were let go.

Was there ever any confirmation that those 2 schools were seriously interested in him?

http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/sports/college/gregory-lands-on-depaul-iowa-lists-1/nNBCN/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Gregory#Head_coaching_record

Quote from: buckchuckler on March 13, 2013, 11:02:43 PM
X is going to the ACC? 

;D

That's what I thought when I read it too.   ;D

Quote from: PTM on March 13, 2013, 04:44:22 PM
1.) Dayton plays in Dayton, which is known for...uh...um...University of Dayton? There's nothing to do there, of course they get good attendance. It's the one thing to do in that city other than tricking out your mid-90's Cavalier.

2.) They've always had solid attendance, but have progressively been worse overtime. Their trend is down, down and down.

3.) History has shown that regardless of income/opportunity, Dayton never reinvests into their basketball program. It brings all the Dayton boys to the yard, but they're like damn let's take the money and not keep a head coach, improve our arena, improve our player amenities, etc.

People from NYC and Philly say the same things about Milwaukee.

IF Dayton makes a significant commitment to basketball and hire the right people, they are a good addition.

Now, I have no idea if they are capable of that... so I guess I have to reserve judgement for 5 years. (dun dun duhhhhhhh!)

Quote from: keefe on March 13, 2013, 11:05:16 PM
Actually, I believe Chico is Hispanic. Or that's what Hoop mentioned.

Dothraki descent is what I heard

Quote from: Mutaman on March 13, 2013, 09:25:39 PM
Bloomberg's a Jewish centrist, albeit a very rich one. A white reactionary is somebody who uses words like "bloviating".

Considering the average liberal's opinion on Jews and Israel, the very sight of him must make your blood boil, eh?

Quote from: warrior07 on March 14, 2013, 01:50:23 PM
Considering the average liberal's opinion on Jews and Israel, the very sight of him must make your blood boil, eh?

After 8 years of Rudy, Bloomberg's an FDR.

I give up, what's the average liberal's opinion on Jews and Israel? I haven't caught o'Reilly in awhile. Is their opinion negative? Maybe they're pissed that "only" 70% of the Jewish vote went to Obama.

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on March 14, 2013, 09:19:06 AM
People from NYC and Philly say the same things about Milwaukee.

IF Dayton makes a significant commitment to basketball and hire the right people, they are a good addition.

Now, I have no idea if they are capable of that... so I guess I have to reserve judgement for 5 years. (dun dun duhhhhhhh!)

I am a Dayton grad but come in peace as well.

(1) I live in the Bay Area (born on the East Coast) and people from the East Coast and West Coast would basically lump Milwaukee, Omaha, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Indy, and Dayton together city-wise.  Having lived in the Midwest, I would say Omaha and Dayton are clearly at the bottom of the heap with a large gap between those 2 cities and the NFL cities, but perception is everything.  San Francisco looks down on Chicago who looks down on Milwaukee who looks down on Dayton ...   D.C., Philly, NY, and Chicago would clearly see themselves in a different league city-wise then the other 6 Big East cities and potential cities.

(2) Dayton attendance actually has been flat to up for the past 20 years overall despite massive increases in seat pricing.

(3) Dayton actually has made massive investments in the basketball program from private jets for the team to all games to upgrading the arena to a dedicated basketball center to new practice facility.

Saying all of that, Dayton clearly has massively underachieved the last 25 years in basketball.  No excuses, it has been brutal considering the level of investment, fan support, and history of the program.  We hope to be invited to the Big East, but realize we could have earned it the last 25 years like Butler and Xavier and have not.  So we are on the bubble and have no one to blame but ourselves.

However, I do not understand the view that Dayton is not as good as Creighton or St. Louis.  Just a quick analysis of the two programs where I do not see much of a difference (same thing could be said about St. Louis).

My comparison on The Holy Land of Hoops of Dayton versus Creighton about 2 months ago.

I do not understand why Creighton is assumed to be better than Dayton and obviously I am a Dayton fan.

Just a comparison of Dayton versus Creighton -- trying to be objective, this looks like a coin-flip to me. Again, Creighton would be a great choice for your new league and I do not mean to disparage them in any way, I just do not see them being a materially better choice for you.

Last 5 years NCAA = Creighton 1 appearance with 1 Round 2; Dayton 1 appearance with 1 Round 2
Last 10 years NCAA = Creighton 4 appearances with 1 Round 2; Dayton 3 appearances with 1 Round 2
Last 30 years NCAA = Creighton 10 appearances with 3 Round 2; Dayton 7 Appearences with 3 Round 2, 1 Sweet 16, 1 Elite 8
Travel = Providence to Omaha; 1500 miles; Providence to Dayton 800 miles; Marquette to Dayton 400 miles and Marquette to Omaha 500 miles; extra 700 miles each way significant for Easr Coast members, particularly Olympic sports
TV Market = Dayton 64 and Omaha 78 - (Dayton 8th best college basketball market - I do not mean to imply 8th most households watching college - 8th in terms of percentage of households watching college basketball - http://www.basketballforum.com/atlantic ... -12-a.html
Attendance = Creighton about 15,000 a game and Dayton 12,500
National Brand Reognition = Both High Mid Majors and Not in Same League as Xavier, Butler, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, etc.
Academics = Comparable with Dayton #115 National Universities (for reference Marquette #83): Creighton #1 Regional University Midwest (for reference Xavier #4); Dayton slightly lower acceptance rate and bigger endowment by $150M.
Dayton is 19-9 the last 6 seasons versus BCS schools (cannot find Creighton comparison)

Again, I am under no illusion Dayton is in the same calibre as Marquette, Georgetown, Butler, Xavier, Villanova, etc. Moreover, I would be thrilled to receive an invite to your new league. I just do not see why it is assumed Creighton is a better fit than Dayton, looks pretty close to me and compelling arguments for both teams.

Creighton will be in back-to-back NCAA tournaments and are # 6 in attendance among all NCAA teams. Its what have you done for me lately mode.

If it "objectively looks like a coin flip" then I really don't know how you can complain if Creighton is chosen ahead of Dayton.   

On your list travel, academics and  endowment don't mean crap.

National recondition, yes. Creighton has a huge advantage due to baseball and Omaha. Your piddly mid-major First Four games scream nothing but mid-major.

Dayton is so close to Cincy (Xavier) it doesn't do much for recruiting.

By having Creighton in the new league, we expand our geographical footprint (read: recruiting), with Dayton, we do not.  A plus factor is that Omaha is a bigger TV market.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 14, 2013, 11:13:58 PM
If it "objectively looks like a coin flip" then I really don't know how you can complain if Creighton is chosen ahead of Dayton.   

Agreed, I would not complain.  Good reasons to choose Creighton over Dayton, but I just don't see a material difference.  Moreover, Dayton would have nobody to blame but themselves due to their lack of on-court performance the last 15 years (only team we have done well against in that period is Marquette -- we are 5-1 the past 15 years :-))

I just don't understand the Dayton is a mid-major mantra, but Creighton and St. Louis are not.  IMHO, all 3 are high mid-majors and Creighton/St. Louis are having a good 2012-2013.  BTW, from somebody who lives on the West Coast and spends most of my time on the East/West Coast, Creighton does not have a national reputation.

One more thing, if invited, Dayton would be #3 in Big East attendance behind only Creighton and Marquette.

Anyway, Dayton is clearly below Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, Xavier, and Butler = tier 1.  If invited, IMHO, the tier 2 teams would be St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall, St. Louis, Creighton, Depaul, and Dayton over the long-term (each team in tier 2 has good and bad years, but not the consistency of the tier 1 teams).

We hope for an invite.

Quote from: ElDonBDon on March 14, 2013, 11:24:46 PM
Dayton is so close to Cincy (Xavier) it doesn't do much for recruiting.

By having Creighton in the new league, we expand our geographical footprint (read: recruiting), with Dayton, we do not.  A plus factor is that Omaha is a bigger TV market.

Dayton is the 64th largest TV market whereas Omaha is the 78th.  Moreover, in terms of per capita watchers of basketball games, Dayton is in the top 10 markets and Omaha is not.  So Dayton is a larger market than Omaha and out of the people in their respective markets, more people in Dayton watch college basketball on TV than people in Omaha.

I also don't buy the recruiting footprint argument.  Just my personal opinion, my perception is neither Omaha or Dayton are hotbeds for recruits.

Anyway, Creighton would be a great choice for your new league.

Quote from: Norm on March 14, 2013, 11:11:24 PM
Creighton will be in back-to-back NCAA tournaments and are # 6 in attendance among all NCAA teams. Its what have you done for me lately mode.

Good points.

Also, Creighton fans don't come to Scoop and create very long winded posts about nothing.

Quote from: PTM on March 14, 2013, 11:41:25 PM
Also, Creighton fans don't come to Scoop and create very long winded posts about nothing.

Yeah, the moderator at UDPride came here and basically said Marquette and the C7 would come grovelling to the A-10 with hat in hand begging to join the A-10 because the A-10 is such a stable conference and no way could the C7 break off and form a decent conference.

Quote from: Norm on March 14, 2013, 11:45:03 PM
Yeah, the moderator at UDPride came here and basically said Marquette and the C7 would come grovelling to the A-10 with hat in hand begging to join the A-10 because the A-10 is such a stable conference and no way could the C7 break off and form a decent conference.

Yep. Mad props for this totally excellent post.

UDPride'd

Quote from: ruechalgrin on March 14, 2013, 11:38:41 PM
Dayton is the 64th largest TV market whereas Omaha is the 78th.  Moreover, in terms of per capita watchers of basketball games, Dayton is in the top 10 markets and Omaha is not.  So Dayton is a larger market than Omaha and out of the people in their respective markets, more people in Dayton watch college basketball on TV than people in Omaha.

I also don't buy the recruiting footprint argument.  Just my personal opinion, my perception is neither Omaha or Dayton are hotbeds for recruits.

Anyway, Creighton would be a great choice for your new league.

I stand corrected on the TV market claim.  However, with respect to recruiting I'm not saying Omaha is a hot bed of recruiting.  I'm saying that we already cover what little footprint Dayton has for recruiting.  Why?  Because we already cover that region by having a Cincinnati school.

Quote from: PTM on March 14, 2013, 11:41:25 PM
Also, Creighton fans don't come to Scoop and create very long winded posts about nothing.

No, we have enough of our own posters that do that already.

Quote from: Norm on March 14, 2013, 11:45:03 PM
Yeah, the moderator at UDPride came here and basically said Marquette and the C7 would come grovelling to the A-10 with hat in hand begging to join the A-10 because the A-10 is such a stable conference and no way could the C7 break off and form a decent conference.

IF they somehow wind up in the new Big East, I will enjoy throwing that like stones at the Cavaliers that I see passing by on game day at the BMO Harris Bradley Center.

Quote from: CaptainAwesome on March 14, 2013, 11:53:38 PM


IF they somehow wind up in the new Big East, I will enjoy throwing that like stones at the Cavaliers that I see passing by on game day at the BMO Harris Bradley Center.

They will be the ones blaring Kid Rock and Silverchair from the MTX subs hooked up in the trunk next to a PS2

Quote from: Norm on March 14, 2013, 11:45:03 PM
Yeah, the moderator at UDPride came here and basically said Marquette and the C7 would come grovelling to the A-10 with hat in hand begging to join the A-10 because the A-10 is such a stable conference and no way could the C7 break off and form a decent conference.

I cannot control what other UD fans think.  But, obviously Dayton would feel very lucky to be invited to the Big East and the A-10 is not in the same stratosphere as the Big East.  Any Dayton fan who says otherwise, has more than rose-colored glasses on.

As to the long-winded comment, yes my post was probably too long!  But I simply addressed respectfully factually wrong points about Dayton in terms of attendance, program investment, etc.  Same with fact-based comparison of Dayton versus Creighton.  As I cannot control the decorum of all UD fans, I will not judge all Marquette fans based upon one fan being rude on the forum.

BTW, understand the recruiting point and it is fair.  FYI, Cincy and Dayton pretty distinct markets.  No one in Dayton (except Xavier grads) watch Xavier on tv and vice versa.  

Quote from: ruechalgrin on March 14, 2013, 10:59:04 PM
I am a Dayton grad but come in peace as well.

(1) I live in the Bay Area (born on the East Coast) and people from the East Coast and West Coast would basically lump Milwaukee, Omaha, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Indy, and Dayton together city-wise.  Having lived in the Midwest, I would say Omaha and Dayton are clearly at the bottom of the heap with a large gap between those 2 cities and the NFL cities, but perception is everything.  San Francisco looks down on Chicago who looks down on Milwaukee who looks down on Dayton ...   D.C., Philly, NY, and Chicago would clearly see themselves in a different league city-wise then the other 6 Big East cities and potential cities.

(2) Dayton attendance actually has been flat to up for the past 20 years overall despite massive increases in seat pricing.

(3) Dayton actually has made massive investments in the basketball program from private jets for the team to all games to upgrading the arena to a dedicated basketball center to new practice facility.

Saying all of that, Dayton clearly has massively underachieved the last 25 years in basketball.  No excuses, it has been brutal considering the level of investment, fan support, and history of the program.  We hope to be invited to the Big East, but realize we could have earned it the last 25 years like Butler and Xavier and have not.  So we are on the bubble and have no one to blame but ourselves.

However, I do not understand the view that Dayton is not as good as Creighton or St. Louis.  Just a quick analysis of the two programs where I do not see much of a difference (same thing could be said about St. Louis).

My comparison on The Holy Land of Hoops of Dayton versus Creighton about 2 months ago.

I do not understand why Creighton is assumed to be better than Dayton and obviously I am a Dayton fan.

Just a comparison of Dayton versus Creighton -- trying to be objective, this looks like a coin-flip to me. Again, Creighton would be a great choice for your new league and I do not mean to disparage them in any way, I just do not see them being a materially better choice for you.

Last 5 years NCAA = Creighton 1 appearance with 1 Round 2; Dayton 1 appearance with 1 Round 2
Last 10 years NCAA = Creighton 4 appearances with 1 Round 2; Dayton 3 appearances with 1 Round 2
Last 30 years NCAA = Creighton 10 appearances with 3 Round 2; Dayton 7 Appearences with 3 Round 2, 1 Sweet 16, 1 Elite 8
Travel = Providence to Omaha; 1500 miles; Providence to Dayton 800 miles; Marquette to Dayton 400 miles and Marquette to Omaha 500 miles; extra 700 miles each way significant for Easr Coast members, particularly Olympic sports
TV Market = Dayton 64 and Omaha 78 - (Dayton 8th best college basketball market - I do not mean to imply 8th most households watching college - 8th in terms of percentage of households watching college basketball - http://www.basketballforum.com/atlantic ... -12-a.html
Attendance = Creighton about 15,000 a game and Dayton 12,500
National Brand Reognition = Both High Mid Majors and Not in Same League as Xavier, Butler, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, etc.
Academics = Comparable with Dayton #115 National Universities (for reference Marquette #83): Creighton #1 Regional University Midwest (for reference Xavier #4); Dayton slightly lower acceptance rate and bigger endowment by $150M.
Dayton is 19-9 the last 6 seasons versus BCS schools (cannot find Creighton comparison)

Again, I am under no illusion Dayton is in the same calibre as Marquette, Georgetown, Butler, Xavier, Villanova, etc. Moreover, I would be thrilled to receive an invite to your new league. I just do not see why it is assumed Creighton is a better fit than Dayton, looks pretty close to me and compelling arguments for both teams.

If I had a choice, I would choose Creighton, but it's close.

Creighton (imo) has greater upside because they have a big arena and draw well (clear sign of support), and they could own the who state of Nebraska (in theory). Dayton has to compete with many more successful programs in it's own state, which certainly isn't a dealbreaker, but will always make it an uphill battle for them.

As far as the "Dayton hate" on this board... please know that most of it is tongue in cheek, (other than the Cavalier comment, which is entirely accurate).

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on March 15, 2013, 07:12:26 AM

As far as the "Dayton hate" on this board... please know that most of it is tongue in cheek, (other than the Cavalier comment, which is entirely accurate).

Sadly, it is.

Quote from: ruechalgrin on March 14, 2013, 10:59:04 PM
I am a Dayton grad but come in peace as well.

Rue, thanks for the post with some good objective information.  For whatever reason, some on this board want to make it out like Dayton is scum of the earth.  Not entirely sure why that is--as you point out, I don't think there is a world of difference between Creighton and Dayton.

However, there are probably a few facts that differentiate the two, from Marquette's perspective (as I see it):

1. Jesuits/connections between MU and Creighton:  The two schools are part of the same US province of the Jesuits, and there are a ton of connections between the two schools.  The Creighton pres is a former MU administrator, and lots of Jesuits have gone back and forth between the two schools.

2. Familiarity: Perhaps partly as a result of #1, I think our fan base generally has pretty good familiarity with Creighton, more so than Dayton--prefer the devil you know.  I grew up in Milwaukee, and had a number of friends that went to HS there.  I'd have to think pretty hard about anyone I knew from MKE that went to Dayton.  (Conversely, I now live in Denver, and know a ton of UD grads, and only a couple of Creighton alu--go figure.)

3. Geography: while Dayton is about the same distance as Omaha from Milwaukee, adding Creighton to the conference expands the footprint, and does it in a way that makes Marquette closer to the geographic center.  Having been on the fringes of the BE for the last decade, Creighton really moves the conference to being a split between midwest and east coast, while Dayton keeps the locus of conference somewhere in western PA.  (http://www.geomidpoint.com/).

For these reasons, I think most MU fans will prefer Creighton.  Even if that's the call for #10, I for one would not be dismayed if Dayton ends up some part of the conference.  I just hope that if you do get added, you'll make the most of the opportunity and become a competitive part of the conference. 

Quote from: MUMountin on March 15, 2013, 10:17:57 AM
2. Familiarity: Perhaps partly as a result of #1, I think our fan base generally has pretty good familiarity with Creighton, more so than Dayton--prefer the devil you know.  I grew up in Milwaukee, and had a number of friends that went to HS there.  I'd have to think pretty hard about anyone I knew from MKE that went to Dayton.  (Conversely, I now live in Denver, and know a ton of UD grads, and only a couple of Creighton alu--go figure.)

I've always thought the opposite, that our fan base is much more familiar with Dayton from the MCC/Great Midwest days, and that's where all the Dayton Hate comes from.  Back then, it seemed like the conference tournament was in Dayton every year, and people resented them for that.
But then again I don't hang out with a lot of Jesuits, so who knows.

Quote from: MUMountin on March 15, 2013, 10:17:57 AM
Rue, thanks for the post with some good objective information.  For whatever reason, some on this board want to make it out like Dayton is scum of the earth.  Not entirely sure why that is--as you point out, I don't think there is a world of difference between Creighton and Dayton.

However, there are probably a few facts that differentiate the two, from Marquette's perspective (as I see it):

1. Jesuits/connections between MU and Creighton:  The two schools are part of the same US province of the Jesuits, and there are a ton of connections between the two schools.  The Creighton pres is a former MU administrator, and lots of Jesuits have gone back and forth between the two schools.

2. Familiarity: Perhaps partly as a result of #1, I think our fan base generally has pretty good familiarity with Creighton, more so than Dayton--prefer the devil you know.  I grew up in Milwaukee, and had a number of friends that went to HS there.  I'd have to think pretty hard about anyone I knew from MKE that went to Dayton.  (Conversely, I now live in Denver, and know a ton of UD grads, and only a couple of Creighton alu--go figure.)

3. Geography: while Dayton is about the same distance as Omaha from Milwaukee, adding Creighton to the conference expands the footprint, and does it in a way that makes Marquette closer to the geographic center.  Having been on the fringes of the BE for the last decade, Creighton really moves the conference to being a split between midwest and east coast, while Dayton keeps the locus of conference somewhere in western PA.  (http://www.geomidpoint.com/).

For these reasons, I think most MU fans will prefer Creighton.  Even if that's the call for #10, I for one would not be dismayed if Dayton ends up some part of the conference.  I just hope that if you do get added, you'll make the most of the opportunity and become a competitive part of the conference.  

A huge part of it was trolls from the Dayton board coming over here and saying we'd be lucky to get in the A-10 and that Dayton would never leave their conference for the inferior Big East, and that MU was afraid to play them. But yeah, it could also just be geography  ::)