NY Post: Butler, Dayton, Xavier to Big East 2013. SLU & Creighton 2014.

[🏀]

[Quie author=MarquetteDano link=topic=36976.msg467402#msg467402 date=1363234072]
Despite my brethren here, I would like to welcome Dayton posters.  My apologies for the brutality of our bunch.  Some of it was caused by your very own "UD Pride" moderator.  Some of it is unwarranted.

Regardless, if Dayton joins the New Big East I am hoping it is the next step for your program.
[/quote]

Quit sucking up to the new kid, douche.

[dayton flyers]

Also, I've heard that Purnell wanted to move on too, so I don't know if he would have been open to staying any longer than he did.  Xavier can't keep any of their successful coaches either.

If UD is a member of this new league, then it will be interesting to have Purnell back at UD Arena.

[77ncaachamps]

Quick, lets get Dayton a FB team!

Or a papal decree to keep them out!

[dayton flyers]

Also, I'm skeptical that Iowa and DePaul were seriously interested in BG in 2010 after Lickliter and Wainwright were let go.

Was there ever any confirmation that those 2 schools were seriously interested in him?

http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/sports/college/gregory-lands-on-depaul-iowa-lists-1/nNBCN/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Gregory#Head_coaching_record

[TJ]

X is going to the ACC? 

That's what I thought when I read it too.   

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

1.) Dayton plays in Dayton, which is known for...uh...um...University of Dayton? There's nothing to do there, of course they get good attendance. It's the one thing to do in that city other than tricking out your mid-90's Cavalier.

2.) They've always had solid attendance, but have progressively been worse overtime. Their trend is down, down and down.

3.) History has shown that regardless of income/opportunity, Dayton never reinvests into their basketball program. It brings all the Dayton boys to the yard, but they're like damn let's take the money and not keep a head coach, improve our arena, improve our player amenities, etc.

People from NYC and Philly say the same things about Milwaukee.

IF Dayton makes a significant commitment to basketball and hire the right people, they are a good addition.

Now, I have no idea if they are capable of that... so I guess I have to reserve judgement for 5 years. (dun dun duhhhhhhh!)

[ChicosBailBonds]

Actually, I believe Chico is Hispanic. Or that's what Hoop mentioned.

Dothraki descent is what I heard

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Bloomberg's a Jewish centrist, albeit a very rich one. A white reactionary is somebody who uses words like "bloviating".

Considering the average liberal's opinion on Jews and Israel, the very sight of him must make your blood boil, eh?

[Mutaman]

Considering the average liberal's opinion on Jews and Israel, the very sight of him must make your blood boil, eh?

After 8 years of Rudy, Bloomberg's an FDR.

I give up, what's the average liberal's opinion on Jews and Israel? I haven't caught o'Reilly in awhile. Is their opinion negative? Maybe they're pissed that "only" 70% of the Jewish vote went to Obama.

[ruechalgrin]

People from NYC and Philly say the same things about Milwaukee.

IF Dayton makes a significant commitment to basketball and hire the right people, they are a good addition.

Now, I have no idea if they are capable of that... so I guess I have to reserve judgement for 5 years. (dun dun duhhhhhhh!)

I am a Dayton grad but come in peace as well.

(1) I live in the Bay Area (born on the East Coast) and people from the East Coast and West Coast would basically lump Milwaukee, Omaha, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Indy, and Dayton together city-wise.  Having lived in the Midwest, I would say Omaha and Dayton are clearly at the bottom of the heap with a large gap between those 2 cities and the NFL cities, but perception is everything.  San Francisco looks down on Chicago who looks down on Milwaukee who looks down on Dayton ...   D.C., Philly, NY, and Chicago would clearly see themselves in a different league city-wise then the other 6 Big East cities and potential cities.

(2) Dayton attendance actually has been flat to up for the past 20 years overall despite massive increases in seat pricing.

(3) Dayton actually has made massive investments in the basketball program from private jets for the team to all games to upgrading the arena to a dedicated basketball center to new practice facility.

Saying all of that, Dayton clearly has massively underachieved the last 25 years in basketball.  No excuses, it has been brutal considering the level of investment, fan support, and history of the program.  We hope to be invited to the Big East, but realize we could have earned it the last 25 years like Butler and Xavier and have not.  So we are on the bubble and have no one to blame but ourselves.

However, I do not understand the view that Dayton is not as good as Creighton or St. Louis.  Just a quick analysis of the two programs where I do not see much of a difference (same thing could be said about St. Louis).

My comparison on The Holy Land of Hoops of Dayton versus Creighton about 2 months ago.

I do not understand why Creighton is assumed to be better than Dayton and obviously I am a Dayton fan.

Just a comparison of Dayton versus Creighton -- trying to be objective, this looks like a coin-flip to me. Again, Creighton would be a great choice for your new league and I do not mean to disparage them in any way, I just do not see them being a materially better choice for you.

Last 5 years NCAA = Creighton 1 appearance with 1 Round 2; Dayton 1 appearance with 1 Round 2
Last 10 years NCAA = Creighton 4 appearances with 1 Round 2; Dayton 3 appearances with 1 Round 2
Last 30 years NCAA = Creighton 10 appearances with 3 Round 2; Dayton 7 Appearences with 3 Round 2, 1 Sweet 16, 1 Elite 8
Travel = Providence to Omaha; 1500 miles; Providence to Dayton 800 miles; Marquette to Dayton 400 miles and Marquette to Omaha 500 miles; extra 700 miles each way significant for Easr Coast members, particularly Olympic sports
TV Market = Dayton 64 and Omaha 78 - (Dayton 8th best college basketball market - I do not mean to imply 8th most households watching college - 8th in terms of percentage of households watching college basketball - http://www.basketballforum.com/atlantic ... -12-a.html
Attendance = Creighton about 15,000 a game and Dayton 12,500
National Brand Reognition = Both High Mid Majors and Not in Same League as Xavier, Butler, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, etc.
Academics = Comparable with Dayton #115 National Universities (for reference Marquette #83): Creighton #1 Regional University Midwest (for reference Xavier #4); Dayton slightly lower acceptance rate and bigger endowment by $150M.
Dayton is 19-9 the last 6 seasons versus BCS schools (cannot find Creighton comparison)

Again, I am under no illusion Dayton is in the same calibre as Marquette, Georgetown, Butler, Xavier, Villanova, etc. Moreover, I would be thrilled to receive an invite to your new league. I just do not see why it is assumed Creighton is a better fit than Dayton, looks pretty close to me and compelling arguments for both teams.

[Norm]

Creighton will be in back-to-back NCAA tournaments and are # 6 in attendance among all NCAA teams. Its what have you done for me lately mode.

[GGGG]

If it "objectively looks like a coin flip" then I really don't know how you can complain if Creighton is chosen ahead of Dayton.   

[🏀]

On your list travel, academics and  endowment don't mean crap.

National recondition, yes. Creighton has a huge advantage due to baseball and Omaha. Your piddly mid-major First Four games scream nothing but mid-major.

[Eldon]

Dayton is so close to Cincy (Xavier) it doesn't do much for recruiting.

By having Creighton in the new league, we expand our geographical footprint (read: recruiting), with Dayton, we do not.  A plus factor is that Omaha is a bigger TV market.

[ruechalgrin]

If it "objectively looks like a coin flip" then I really don't know how you can complain if Creighton is chosen ahead of Dayton.   

Agreed, I would not complain.  Good reasons to choose Creighton over Dayton, but I just don't see a material difference.  Moreover, Dayton would have nobody to blame but themselves due to their lack of on-court performance the last 15 years (only team we have done well against in that period is Marquette -- we are 5-1 the past 15 years :-))

I just don't understand the Dayton is a mid-major mantra, but Creighton and St. Louis are not.  IMHO, all 3 are high mid-majors and Creighton/St. Louis are having a good 2012-2013.  BTW, from somebody who lives on the West Coast and spends most of my time on the East/West Coast, Creighton does not have a national reputation.

One more thing, if invited, Dayton would be #3 in Big East attendance behind only Creighton and Marquette.

Anyway, Dayton is clearly below Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, Xavier, and Butler = tier 1.  If invited, IMHO, the tier 2 teams would be St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall, St. Louis, Creighton, Depaul, and Dayton over the long-term (each team in tier 2 has good and bad years, but not the consistency of the tier 1 teams).

We hope for an invite.

[ruechalgrin]

Dayton is so close to Cincy (Xavier) it doesn't do much for recruiting.

By having Creighton in the new league, we expand our geographical footprint (read: recruiting), with Dayton, we do not.  A plus factor is that Omaha is a bigger TV market.

Dayton is the 64th largest TV market whereas Omaha is the 78th.  Moreover, in terms of per capita watchers of basketball games, Dayton is in the top 10 markets and Omaha is not.  So Dayton is a larger market than Omaha and out of the people in their respective markets, more people in Dayton watch college basketball on TV than people in Omaha.

I also don't buy the recruiting footprint argument.  Just my personal opinion, my perception is neither Omaha or Dayton are hotbeds for recruits.

Anyway, Creighton would be a great choice for your new league.

[ruechalgrin]

Creighton will be in back-to-back NCAA tournaments and are # 6 in attendance among all NCAA teams. Its what have you done for me lately mode.

Good points.

[🏀]

Also, Creighton fans don't come to Scoop and create very long winded posts about nothing.

[Norm]

Also, Creighton fans don't come to Scoop and create very long winded posts about nothing.

Yeah, the moderator at UDPride came here and basically said Marquette and the C7 would come grovelling to the A-10 with hat in hand begging to join the A-10 because the A-10 is such a stable conference and no way could the C7 break off and form a decent conference.

[🏀]

Yeah, the moderator at UDPride came here and basically said Marquette and the C7 would come grovelling to the A-10 with hat in hand begging to join the A-10 because the A-10 is such a stable conference and no way could the C7 break off and form a decent conference.

Yep. Mad props for this totally excellent post.

UDPride'd

[Eldon]

Dayton is the 64th largest TV market whereas Omaha is the 78th.  Moreover, in terms of per capita watchers of basketball games, Dayton is in the top 10 markets and Omaha is not.  So Dayton is a larger market than Omaha and out of the people in their respective markets, more people in Dayton watch college basketball on TV than people in Omaha.

I also don't buy the recruiting footprint argument.  Just my personal opinion, my perception is neither Omaha or Dayton are hotbeds for recruits.

Anyway, Creighton would be a great choice for your new league.

I stand corrected on the TV market claim.  However, with respect to recruiting I'm not saying Omaha is a hot bed of recruiting.  I'm saying that we already cover what little footprint Dayton has for recruiting.  Why?  Because we already cover that region by having a Cincinnati school.

[The Process]

Also, Creighton fans don't come to Scoop and create very long winded posts about nothing.

No, we have enough of our own posters that do that already.

Yeah, the moderator at UDPride came here and basically said Marquette and the C7 would come grovelling to the A-10 with hat in hand begging to join the A-10 because the A-10 is such a stable conference and no way could the C7 break off and form a decent conference.

IF they somehow wind up in the new Big East, I will enjoy throwing that like stones at the Cavaliers that I see passing by on game day at the BMO Harris Bradley Center.

[🏀]

IF they somehow wind up in the new Big East, I will enjoy throwing that like stones at the Cavaliers that I see passing by on game day at the BMO Harris Bradley Center.

They will be the ones blaring Kid Rock and Silverchair from the MTX subs hooked up in the trunk next to a PS2

[ruechalgrin]

Yeah, the moderator at UDPride came here and basically said Marquette and the C7 would come grovelling to the A-10 with hat in hand begging to join the A-10 because the A-10 is such a stable conference and no way could the C7 break off and form a decent conference.

I cannot control what other UD fans think.  But, obviously Dayton would feel very lucky to be invited to the Big East and the A-10 is not in the same stratosphere as the Big East.  Any Dayton fan who says otherwise, has more than rose-colored glasses on.

As to the long-winded comment, yes my post was probably too long!  But I simply addressed respectfully factually wrong points about Dayton in terms of attendance, program investment, etc.  Same with fact-based comparison of Dayton versus Creighton.  As I cannot control the decorum of all UD fans, I will not judge all Marquette fans based upon one fan being rude on the forum.

BTW, understand the recruiting point and it is fair.  FYI, Cincy and Dayton pretty distinct markets.  No one in Dayton (except Xavier grads) watch Xavier on tv and vice versa.  

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I am a Dayton grad but come in peace as well.

(1) I live in the Bay Area (born on the East Coast) and people from the East Coast and West Coast would basically lump Milwaukee, Omaha, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Indy, and Dayton together city-wise.  Having lived in the Midwest, I would say Omaha and Dayton are clearly at the bottom of the heap with a large gap between those 2 cities and the NFL cities, but perception is everything.  San Francisco looks down on Chicago who looks down on Milwaukee who looks down on Dayton ...   D.C., Philly, NY, and Chicago would clearly see themselves in a different league city-wise then the other 6 Big East cities and potential cities.

(2) Dayton attendance actually has been flat to up for the past 20 years overall despite massive increases in seat pricing.

(3) Dayton actually has made massive investments in the basketball program from private jets for the team to all games to upgrading the arena to a dedicated basketball center to new practice facility.

Saying all of that, Dayton clearly has massively underachieved the last 25 years in basketball.  No excuses, it has been brutal considering the level of investment, fan support, and history of the program.  We hope to be invited to the Big East, but realize we could have earned it the last 25 years like Butler and Xavier and have not.  So we are on the bubble and have no one to blame but ourselves.

However, I do not understand the view that Dayton is not as good as Creighton or St. Louis.  Just a quick analysis of the two programs where I do not see much of a difference (same thing could be said about St. Louis).

My comparison on The Holy Land of Hoops of Dayton versus Creighton about 2 months ago.

I do not understand why Creighton is assumed to be better than Dayton and obviously I am a Dayton fan.

Just a comparison of Dayton versus Creighton -- trying to be objective, this looks like a coin-flip to me. Again, Creighton would be a great choice for your new league and I do not mean to disparage them in any way, I just do not see them being a materially better choice for you.

Last 5 years NCAA = Creighton 1 appearance with 1 Round 2; Dayton 1 appearance with 1 Round 2
Last 10 years NCAA = Creighton 4 appearances with 1 Round 2; Dayton 3 appearances with 1 Round 2
Last 30 years NCAA = Creighton 10 appearances with 3 Round 2; Dayton 7 Appearences with 3 Round 2, 1 Sweet 16, 1 Elite 8
Travel = Providence to Omaha; 1500 miles; Providence to Dayton 800 miles; Marquette to Dayton 400 miles and Marquette to Omaha 500 miles; extra 700 miles each way significant for Easr Coast members, particularly Olympic sports
TV Market = Dayton 64 and Omaha 78 - (Dayton 8th best college basketball market - I do not mean to imply 8th most households watching college - 8th in terms of percentage of households watching college basketball - http://www.basketballforum.com/atlantic ... -12-a.html
Attendance = Creighton about 15,000 a game and Dayton 12,500
National Brand Reognition = Both High Mid Majors and Not in Same League as Xavier, Butler, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, etc.
Academics = Comparable with Dayton #115 National Universities (for reference Marquette #83): Creighton #1 Regional University Midwest (for reference Xavier #4); Dayton slightly lower acceptance rate and bigger endowment by $150M.
Dayton is 19-9 the last 6 seasons versus BCS schools (cannot find Creighton comparison)

Again, I am under no illusion Dayton is in the same calibre as Marquette, Georgetown, Butler, Xavier, Villanova, etc. Moreover, I would be thrilled to receive an invite to your new league. I just do not see why it is assumed Creighton is a better fit than Dayton, looks pretty close to me and compelling arguments for both teams.

If I had a choice, I would choose Creighton, but it's close.

Creighton (imo) has greater upside because they have a big arena and draw well (clear sign of support), and they could own the who state of Nebraska (in theory). Dayton has to compete with many more successful programs in it's own state, which certainly isn't a dealbreaker, but will always make it an uphill battle for them.

As far as the "Dayton hate" on this board... please know that most of it is tongue in cheek, (other than the Cavalier comment, which is entirely accurate).