Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[Heisenberg]

This is very not good ...

Israeli officials obtained Hamas's battle plan for the Oct. 7 terrorist attack more than a year before it happened, documents, emails and interviews show. But Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, considering it too difficult for Hamas to carry out.

The approximately 40-page document, which the Israeli authorities code-named "Jericho Wall," outlined, point by point, exactly the kind of devastating invasion that led to the deaths of about 1,200 people.

The translated document, which was reviewed by The New York Times, did not set a date for the attack, but described a methodical assault designed to overwhelm the fortifications around the Gaza Strip, take over Israeli cities and storm key military bases, including a division headquarters.

Hamas followed the blueprint with shocking precision. The document called for a barrage of rockets at the outset of the attack, drones to knock out the security cameras and automated machine guns along the border, and gunmen to pour into Israel en masse in paragliders, on motorcycles and on foot — all of which happened on Oct. 7.

The plan also included details about the location and size of Israeli military forces, communication hubs and other sensitive information, raising questions about how Hamas gathered its intelligence and whether there were leaks inside the Israeli security establishment.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20231130&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=151407&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

It is not good, and the current Israeli Government and IDF leadership will pay a heavy price, as history shows that when past security failures like this happened (1973), Israel voted for a new generation of leaders.  All the retreads are done.

And who is coming next? Even bigger "security hawks" who are determined never to let this happen again. The next generation will make sure the Palestinians are incapable of any atrocities again.

The next generation will make Bibi look like a moderate.

You're kidding yourself if they are going to vote in left-wing peaceniks after October 7.

[Uncle Rico]

It is not good, and the current Israeli Government and IDF leadership will pay a heavy price, as history shows that when past security failures like this happened (1973), Israel voted for a new generation of leaders.  All the retreads are done.

And who is coming next? Even bigger "security hawks" who are determined never to let this happen again. The next generation will make sure the Palestinians are incapable of any atrocities again.

The next generation will make Bibi look like a moderate.

You're kidding yourself if they are going to vote in left-wing peaceniks after October 7.

Good sign for left-wing peaceniks if you don't think they're winning the next election

[The Sultan]

Good sign for left-wing peaceniks if you don't think they're winning the next election

Especially if they invested in Apple.

[Uncle Rico]

Especially if they invested in Apple.

Bet the peacenik's watch the NFL

[The Sultan]

Bet the peacenik's watch the NFL

And take their kids to Disney.

[MU82]

You're kidding yourself if they are going to vote in left-wing peaceniks after October 7.

I didn't think they would vote in a left-wing peacenik.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

Bill Ackman thinks SBF didn't know anything about illegal activity!

[jesmu84]

OT -

Meanwhile Disney invests heavily on TikTok, likely alongside videos of kids teaching other teenagers to be anorexic and worse.

Ya. Definitely no bad messaging or media on X.

[jesmu84]

Israel has stated there will not be 2 states.

Doesn't this mean genocide of the Palestinians?

[Skatastrophy]

Israel has stated there will not be 2 states.

Doesn't this mean genocide of the Palestinians?

I don't think that a stated goal of governing certain land implies a goal of also killing a bunch of non combatants.

[Heisenberg]

Israel has stated there will not be 2 states.

Doesn't this mean genocide of the Palestinians?

Why?

20% of the population of Israel is Palestinian. They run major businesses, Palestinians sit on the Israeli Supreme Court, and are members of the Israeli government.

Why can't the Pleastians outside of Israel co-exist with Jews? Two million can inside Israel.  And notice none of them are protesting for a free Palestine.

[Heisenberg]

There was a ceasefire that Hamas broke on October 7.

There was another ceasefire last week that broke earlier today.

Who broke it?

Blinken Blames Hamas for End of Gaza Truce as Fighting Ramps Up
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-01/blinken-says-hamas-to-blame-for-end-of-week-long-gaza-truce

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken blamed Hamas for the end of a week-long truce that saw dozens of hostages released from the Gaza Strip, as fighting intensified and Israel signaled it would widen its campaign in the territory's south.

Blinken told reporters Hamas had gone back on promises to release some hostages and had fired rockets that killed civilians in Jerusalem while the cease-fire was still in place. Those remarks echoed similar claims from Israel, which had said Hamas didn't free all the women it had vowed to let go.

"It came to an end because of Hamas," Blinken told reporters in Dubai. He said Hamas had committed "an atrocious terrorist attack in Jerusalem" that killed three people and "reneged on commitments it made, in terms of releasing certain hostages."

----

This should effectively end all talk of another ceasefire until Hamas is either completely destroyed or surrenders.

How much bloodshed will Palestinian civilians have to endure at the hands of Hamas?

[Pakuni]

Why?

20% of the population of Israel is Palestinian. They run major businesses, Palestinians sit on the Israeli Supreme Court, and are members of the Israeli government.

Why can't the Pleastians outside of Israel co-exist with Jews? Two million can inside Israel.  And notice none of them are protesting for a free Palestine.

Read. Learn.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/what-the-war-means-for-palestinians-inside-israel#:~:text=While%20the%20media's%20focus%20has,approximately%20twenty%20per%20cent%20of

[MU82]

Of course Hamas broke the cease-fire. They are terrorists and animals who don't care about human life.

[The Sultan]

Read. Learn.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/what-the-war-means-for-palestinians-inside-israel#:~:text=While%20the%20media's%20focus%20has,approximately%20twenty%20per%20cent%20of

He's not capable of either.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

He's not capable of either.

Try copying and pasting an entire article. Oh wait those aren't read either.

[Heisenberg]

Read. Learn.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/what-the-war-means-for-palestinians-inside-israel#:~:text=While%20the%20media's%20focus%20has,approximately%20twenty%20per%20cent%20of

Typical misleading article by the New Yorker. They are conflating Arabs that live in Israel, like Haifa and Tel Aviv, with Palestinians on the West Bank, like Jerusalem. The West Bank is not part of the country of Israel. It is an occupied territory.

But if you want to read and learn about Arab life inside of Israel, try this.

My sister-in-law in Tel Aviv has been providing the family and some friends daily updates on their situation. Here is how she began today's. She is a very opinionated, very Jewish, and (obviously) very very very pro-Israel ...

+++
Let's start this day by dispelling some terms thrown against Israel:

We are an apartheid state.  Ask any South African what apartheid means.  No black person could use the same toilets, they could not seat on the same public benches.  I believe that they couldn't even walk on the same pavement.  The women were maids earning meagre wages and the men were gardeners or only had menial jobs.  Arabs in Israel are treated equally.  95% of all pharmacists are Arabs; Arabs are doctors, nurses, brigadiers in the army, they have their own businesses and pay the same taxes.  We recently had a huge renovation to our apartment.  Our builders were Arabs.  We had various quotes for carpentry, for the builders themselves, for the electrician etc.  We chose the Arab companies – why?  Easy – their work was top notch.

We are occupying Gaza.  Gaza is NOT a part of Israel.  We have not a legal responsibility to Gaza.  We left Gaza in 2005.  As a result they had "fair and open" elections.  Hamas won.  Hamas ran on the ticket that they would provide health services, they would build wealth for the Palestinians.  The net result was yes they did provide some social benefits and they also built wealth for themselves.  If you are gay then you can expect to be executed if you are caught.  Tel Aviv is the gay capital of the world.  Israel provides the infrastructure for the electricity. However, the Palestinians are supposed to pay for this.  They haven't paid for quite a while.   Listen to Joe Biden's speech last night when he said that it would not be a good idea for Israel to occupy Gaza AGAIN - affirming that we do not occupy Gaza.

+++

She went on to add:

Bibi's legacy is dead!  He will be remembered as the power-mad egotist who fell asleep on his watch.  He was so infatuated by the far, far right that the money that should have gone on defence, education and the health services here instead went on supporting his personal causes.

[Heisenberg]

Read. Learn.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/what-the-war-means-for-palestinians-inside-israel#:~:text=While%20the%20media's%20focus%20has,approximately%20twenty%20per%20cent%20of

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4270274-the-israeli-towns-where-jews-and-arabs-live-side-by-side/

[lawdog77]

Read. Learn.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/what-the-war-means-for-palestinians-inside-israel#:~:text=While%20the%20media's%20focus%20has,approximately%20twenty%20per%20cent%20of

Quoting the New Yorker? Keefe, is that you?

[jesmu84]

Israel attacking southern Gaza despite telling Palestinians to move there

Israel seems to want the land. Which is something completely different than just eliminating Hamas.

So what's the end goal here? What happens after military action stops?

[jesmu84]

Massie is an isolationist. He votes against everything that is the US projecting power outside the US.

I disagree with him, but he has been consistent with his view.

That's not why he voted against. Read his words.

[forgetful]

Israel attacking southern Gaza despite telling Palestinians to move there

Israel seems to want the land. Which is something completely different than just eliminating Hamas.

So what's the end goal here? What happens after military action stops?

It depends on who in power your look at. The Likud party has a long term goal that everything between the Jordan River and Mediterranean Sea will be part of Israel. The question is when, and how they get to that point.

More extreme members of the government like Ben-Gvir, believe that should occur now. And his allies are part of the leaked plan to expel all Palestinians from Gaza to annex it into Israel now.

The more extreme position wants to officially annex all of the West Bank right now also. Not sure if that would also entail an expulsion of Palestinians, but Ben-Gvir has made it clear that he wants to expel any "disloyal" Palestinians from anywhere between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, and it would be up to his allies to determine what "disloyal" means.

Believers of Kahanism (their official political party "Kach party"was considered a terrorist group until 2022) is currently very strong in the government, and will likely get stronger in the next election.

[jesmu84]

Per report, Israel deliberately attacked a doctor's without borders convoy

[Heisenberg]

Per report, Israel deliberately attacked a doctor's without borders convoy

It was back on November 18, accusation came two days ago. Two were killed in a shooting at a checkpoint.

https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/msf-convoy-attack-gaza-all-elements-point-israeli-army-responsibility

——

They have been accused of being Hamas sympathetizers. They fund the Gaza Health ministry and often condemn Israel, rarely Hamas. They even claimed they saw no evidence of Hamas hiding in any Gaza hospital.

Why is Doctors Without Borders covering for Hamas in Gaza?
https://www.ngo-monitor.org/reports/doctors-without-borders-systematically-ignoring-israeli-victims-and-hamas-terror/

[Heisenberg]

As I've posted before, Israel is unified about what they are doing.

Even their peacenicks are onboard.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/03/middleeast/israel-peace-activists-reevaluate-war-hamas-gaza-intl

——

This part is really lost on Western progressives, some of whom made fun of my assertion that when Israel votes in the next generation, they will make Bibi look like a moderate.

From the article above:

While in the West, young voters are often more liberal than their grandparents,' the opposite is true in Israel, Rafael, one of Gen Zayin's co-founders who is using a pseudonym, told CNN.

A 2022 poll by the Israeli Democracy Institute found that 73% of Jewish people surveyed between the ages of 18 and 24 identified as right-wing compared with 46% of people polled over the age of 65.

——

I might add the same thing is happening in a lot of the Muslim world.

Their grand-fathers were violently anti-Israel, but the younger generations in Egypt, Morocco, Bahrain, the UAE and soon Saudi Arabia (under Crown Prince MBS) are tired of all the constant Jew hatred. They want to recognize Israel's right to exist and tell the Palestinians to knock it off and learn to live with the Jews.

This is why many Muslim countries have been so tepid in condemning Israel. They hate Hamas, want them gone, and want the Palestinians to stop being a problem.