Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[Hards Alumni]

Legal under want law?

This gets back to my position... peace comes about when one side prevails over the other.  Until that happens, this never ends.

International law does not recognize the West Bank as Israel's territory.  Additionally, Israel's supreme court recognizes the West Bank (except East Jerusalem) as occupied territory.

edit: Here.  I'll help

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_the_West_Bank

[Heisenberg]

October 21, 2023
Egypt's Gaza Summit Highlights Calls for Two-State Solution
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-21/egypt-s-gaza-summit-starts-with-arab-call-for-two-state-solution

Arab leaders dubbed Israel's retaliatory strikes on Gaza "collective punishment" as they and some European officials stressed that a stable and secure outcome to the Israel-Palestinian conflict must be built on a two-state solution

It's unclear if anything new will emerge from the meeting to address what many in the region, and in Europe, see as the root cause of the continued violence – the lack of progress on securing an equitable two-state solution for Israel and Palestine.


---

This means they have no two-state solution and are not interested in one.

Saying the words makes Western Progressives happy, so they happily repeat these empty gestures.

Just say two-state solution, but never propose one.

No one in the Arab world really cares about the Palestinians. If they did, one of the 55 Arab and Islamic countries would accept refugees. Exactly zero are taking them.

[Heisenberg]

International law does not recognize the West Bank as Israel's territory.  Additionally, Israel's supreme court recognizes the West Bank (except East Jerusalem) as occupied territory.

edit: Here.  I'll help

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_the_West_Bank

The Palestinians should sue

[The Sultan]

Legal under want law?

This gets back to my position... peace comes about when one side prevails over the other.  Until that happens, this never ends.

Settlements have spread into areas of the West Bank under Palestinian administrative control (area B), as agreed to by Israel, because the Israeli army maintains security control and allows it.

Not to mention by international law it's not really theirs to occupy.

And finally Israel HAS prevailed over the West Bank Palestinians. But they show no interest in sticking to agreements with them because of short term political thinking.

[Jockey]

What is your question even asking?

That's what we're all wondering. It doesn't even matter though. He is strictly here to argue.

[Heisenberg]

Porn star Mia Khalifa (Lebonaese born) said this about the attack by Hamas

"Can someone please tell the freedom fighters in Palestine to turn their phones sideways while recording videos?"

Playboy dropped her, and Pornhub (run out of Germany!) not only de-monetized her and donated her revenues to Isreal!!

Her response to all this ...

@miakhalifa
I'd say supporting Palestine has lost me business opportunities, but I'm more angry at myself for not checking whether or not I was entering into business with Zionists. My bad.

-----

Seems the porn community has more moral clarity on what is happening than many on this board.

[Pakuni]

No one in the Arab world really cares about the Palestinians. If they did, one of the 55 Arab and Islamic countries would accept refugees. Exactly zero are taking them.

I don't know how much/little Arab nations care about Palestinians, but that's not why they won't accept refugees.
They won't accept refugees because they fear, as in after previous wars, Israel wants to permanently displace Palestinian civilians from their homes.
As are most things there, it's far more complicated than you present it.

[Heisenberg]

I don't know how much/little Arab nations care about Palestinians, but that's not why they won't accept refugees.
They won't accept refugees because they fear, as in after previous wars, Israel wants to permanently displace Palestinian civilians from their homes.
As are most things there, it's far more complicated than you present it.

As I said, the Arab world likes using the Palestinians as human shields.

[Hards Alumni]

The Palestinians should sue

Not a serious person.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

Looks like you said the silent part (you believe in) out loud. While the people you continuously accuse of hate, advocate for saving lives everywhere. You have directly posted, that in your opinion BOTH sides want to ELIMINATE each other.

And, you advocate then for eliminating the Palestinians as the only route to peace.

You directly state, what you accuse others of secretly believing.

Meanwhile, everyone else, you accuse of such vile ideology, renounce it, and instead believe that the Palestinians and Israelis both have a right to establishing independent states in the holy land, and can both live and coexist in peace with a proper peace plan establishing two-states with borders based on something like the 1967, 1969 borders.

If you had actually read my original post (everything in the post has been subsequently posted on here in shorter and more succinct and better worded ways). It said the problem was people who believe like you and Hamas do. That the only way to peace is to annihilate the other side, and to unify all of the region under one sides rule, strictly based on religious beliefs.

That belief is abhorrent, and is the cause of decades of violence.

"World views incompatible with each other " is a slippery slope into genocidal language.

No it's just incompatible with what he thinks is right and wrong which that wrong is definitely Islam.

I appreciate him speaking out about only watching moral pornography though.

[4everwarriors]

From a friend of a friend. Names removed for their privacy. 

Hello my friends. This is my first FB post in nearly 7 years. With that said, it is also the only social media platform I have, so I hope people still use FB.

I would like to share with you an experience I had last night. XXXXXXXXXXXX and I went to the Dave Chappelle-Standup Comedy show at TD Garden with three other couples. What started out as a funny and joyful evening for the 8 of us ending with disgust and fear.

Towards the end of his act, Chappelle mentioned the war in Israel and how he as a Muslim denounces Israel for its treatment of the people in Gaza and started to add in lots of false and unsubstantiated claims. A gentleman towards the front yelled out "You should shut the F up". Chappelle lost it on the man yelling, "You do not tell me to shut the F up at MY show". Chappelle then started on a tirade of his beliefs leaving comedy behind and focusing purely on the politics.

While that was awful in itself, what made my heart sink and started to invoke fear was when the crowd of nearly 20,000 people started yelling out "Go Palestine. Go Hamas." and other related hatful jargon. The audience was cheering Chappelle on during his tirade. I was sick. We were sick. I turned to my friends and wife and said I think it is time to go. We walked out and met up with many other Jews leaving the show. Never in my life have I felt so unsafe and so fearful of what I was witnessing. The words alone were horrific, but we were vulnerable in a public forum. How could we know what would happen? Could violence against the Jewish members in the audience break out?

Here in Boston, how was there so much hate for Jews. How could a comedy show provide such a mechanism for people to verbally shout our their hatred for Jews? The unfortunate icing on the cake was that all cell phones and communication devices had to be locked up so there is no video or audio evidence. With that, I am hoping social media can spread this word.

If you have made it this far and know how to use social media better than me, please share and see if we can get this to the Boston Globe. Thank you! Boston Globe Opinion.

[Golden Avalanche]

From a friend of a friend. Names removed for their privacy. 

Hello my friends. This is my first FB post in nearly 7 years. With that said, it is also the only social media platform I have, so I hope people still use FB.

I would like to share with you an experience I had last night. XXXXXXXXXXXX and I went to the Dave Chappelle-Standup Comedy show at TD Garden with three other couples. What started out as a funny and joyful evening for the 8 of us ending with disgust and fear.

Towards the end of his act, Chappelle mentioned the war in Israel and how he as a Muslim denounces Israel for its treatment of the people in Gaza and started to add in lots of false and unsubstantiated claims. A gentleman towards the front yelled out "You should shut the F up". Chappelle lost it on the man yelling, "You do not tell me to shut the F up at MY show". Chappelle then started on a tirade of his beliefs leaving comedy behind and focusing purely on the politics.

While that was awful in itself, what made my heart sink and started to invoke fear was when the crowd of nearly 20,000 people started yelling out "Go Palestine. Go Hamas." and other related hatful jargon. The audience was cheering Chappelle on during his tirade. I was sick. We were sick. I turned to my friends and wife and said I think it is time to go. We walked out and met up with many other Jews leaving the show. Never in my life have I felt so unsafe and so fearful of what I was witnessing. The words alone were horrific, but we were vulnerable in a public forum. How could we know what would happen? Could violence against the Jewish members in the audience break out?

Here in Boston, how was there so much hate for Jews. How could a comedy show provide such a mechanism for people to verbally shout our their hatred for Jews? The unfortunate icing on the cake was that all cell phones and communication devices had to be locked up so there is no video or audio evidence. With that, I am hoping social media can spread this word.

If you have made it this far and know how to use social media better than me, please share and see if we can get this to the Boston Globe. Thank you! Boston Globe Opinion.

We can't get 20,000 in the arena on the same page for MU basketball and yet Boston was all-in on the synchronicity of the most recent flare up of a centuries old war? 

America is back, baby. 

[tower912]

A provoacateur gets into an argument.   I have to believe you view him as a kindred spirit, doc.

[4everwarriors]

Yes, can't let this chit go unchecked. Gotta push back... Kolek Chapelle, aina?

[tower912]

I know the feeling.

[Jockey]

From a friend of a friend. Names removed for their privacy. 

Hello my friends. This is my first FB post in nearly 7 years. With that said, it is also the only social media platform I have, so I hope people still use FB.

I would like to share with you an experience I had last night. XXXXXXXXXXXX and I went to the Dave Chappelle-Standup Comedy show at TD Garden with three other couples. What started out as a funny and joyful evening for the 8 of us ending with disgust and fear.

Towards the end of his act, Chappelle mentioned the war in Israel and how he as a Muslim denounces Israel for its treatment of the people in Gaza and started to add in lots of false and unsubstantiated claims. A gentleman towards the front yelled out "You should shut the F up". Chappelle lost it on the man yelling, "You do not tell me to shut the F up at MY show". Chappelle then started on a tirade of his beliefs leaving comedy behind and focusing purely on the politics.

While that was awful in itself, what made my heart sink and started to invoke fear was when the crowd of nearly 20,000 people started yelling out "Go Palestine. Go Hamas." and other related hatful jargon. The audience was cheering Chappelle on during his tirade. I was sick. We were sick. I turned to my friends and wife and said I think it is time to go. We walked out and met up with many other Jews leaving the show. Never in my life have I felt so unsafe and so fearful of what I was witnessing. The words alone were horrific, but we were vulnerable in a public forum. How could we know what would happen? Could violence against the Jewish members in the audience break out?

Here in Boston, how was there so much hate for Jews. How could a comedy show provide such a mechanism for people to verbally shout our their hatred for Jews? The unfortunate icing on the cake was that all cell phones and communication devices had to be locked up so there is no video or audio evidence. With that, I am hoping social media can spread this word.

If you have made it this far and know how to use social media better than me, please share and see if we can get this to the Boston Globe. Thank you! Boston Globe Opinion.

Actually, Chappelle criticized HAmas for attacking Israel first and then went on to criticize Israeli treatment of Palestinians.

But I'm glad you found a source (FB) that you believe 100%.

[Heisenberg]

"World views incompatible with each other " is a slippery slope into genocidal language.

No it's just incompatible with what he thinks is right and wrong which that wrong is definitely Islam.

I appreciate him speaking out about only watching moral pornography though.

All the criticisms about a two-state solution, settlements in the West Bank, it's complicated, good (or bad) people on both sides have at their heart an assumption that these two sides can find common ground and live together.

We have about 2,000 years of history showing they cannot.

So, they either keep killing each other slowly over time. Or we let them at it and let one side prevail.

I have defined this problem as both sides viewing their existence as at stake. So, both sides feel they cannot lose this fight and will do whatever it takes.

They are right. It is a fight about existence. This is why all the nuisance is misplaced. There is no way they can co-exist.

---

To be clear. This is among a specific type of Arab called a Palestinian. A group of people have never lived in Palestine, as Palestine has never existed as a separate country.

The larger Arab community, which includes Palestinians, is less and less having a problem with Israel. 20% of Israelis are Arab (versus 0% of Palestine is Jewish). Some countries, via the Abraham Accords, have normalized relations with Israel (UAE and Qatar). The Saudis were close (it has been heavily speculated that blowing up this deal motivated the attack on October 7).

--

So you have two options: kill each other in bunches for the rest of time. Or settle this once and for all and have a lasting peace. We settled it once and for all with Japan in August 1945. It was horrible. But now we have a lasting peace and a close ally in Japan.

This gets rejected because it requires the world to make a judgment of choosing one side or the other. But this is the way it works., When two incompatible views of the world exist, one has to prevail.

---
ADDED LATER

We did not genocide Japan out of existence
We did not genocide Germany out of existence
We did not genocide the confederacy out of existence.

Israel will not genocide the Palestinians out of existence. They will go until the Palestinians give up the fight and accept peace and co-existence.

Can you say the same about the Palestinians? If they had the means, where would the Palestinians stop against the Jews in Isreal?

[The Sultan]

All the criticisms about a two-state solution, settlements in the West Bank, it's complicated, good (or bad) people on both sides have at their heart an assumption that these two sides can find common ground and live together.

We have about 2,000 years of history showing they cannot.

This is really not accurate. But the time Islam reached the area, it was populated mostly by Christians since Jews had largely been dispersed away from the mideast, and the area remained with a relatively small Jewish population until after WW2.

[Heisenberg]

This is really not accurate. But the time Islam reached the area, it was populated mostly by Christians since Jews had largely been dispersed away from the mideast, and the area remained with a relatively small Jewish population until after WW2.

Do you believe the Jews and the Arabs could co-exist until 1947?

Or, to use the inflammatory word we like around here, were the Jews genocided out of the area until 1947 ... as they were in Germany until 1945?

This history has the Isreal united under the "never again" belief.

Americans, being ignorant and self-absorbed, make things worse. See 4E Dave Chappelle post.

[The Sultan]

Do you believe the Jews and the Arabs could co-exist until 1947?

That's a weird way of saying "yeah I was wrong about that."

[Heisenberg]

That's a weird way of saying "yeah I was wrong about that."

Desperate to make this into a bunch of nothing.

This is your typical battle cry on the board. "<fill in the blank> will be fine" is what you always say. It is the progressive battle cry. You can tear down everything you do not believe in because "everything will be fine" when you are done.

Israel will be fine if they calm down .. Right "Leader of Muslims."

[The Sultan]

Desperate to make this into a bunch of nothing.

This is your typical battle cry on the board. "<fill in the blank> will be fine" is what you always say. It is the progressive battle cry. You can tear down everything you do not believe in because "everything will be fine" when you are done.

Israel will be fine if they calm down .. Right "Leader of Muslims."

LOL, what the f*ck are you even talking about now? Too much wine with dinner?

[panda]

Desperate to make this into a bunch of nothing.

This is your typical battle cry on the board. "<fill in the blank> will be fine" is what you always say. It is the progressive battle cry. You can tear down everything you do not believe in because "everything will be fine" when you are done.

Israel will be fine if they calm down .. Right "Leader of Muslims."

I agree with this analysis

[Heisenberg]

To be clear, he's ok with what comes next, no matter how hard it may be to look at


October 21, 2023
'I am a Zionist': How Joe Biden's lifelong bond with Israel shapes war policy
https://news.yahoo.com/am-zionist-joe-bidens-lifelong-141401442.html

When Joe Biden met with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his war cabinet during his visit to Israel, the U.S. president assured them: "I don't believe you have to be a Jew to be a Zionist, and I am a Zionist."

Biden, who is of Irish Catholic descent, has used similar words in the past to profess his affinity for Israel. But the moment, which has not been previously reported, illustrates how Biden's decades as one of the leading "Friends of Israel" in American politics seem to be guiding him during a defining crisis of his presidency.

[MuggsyB]

Do you believe the Jews and the Arabs could co-exist until 1947?

Or, to use the inflammatory word we like around here, were the Jews genocided out of the area until 1947 ... as they were in Germany until 1945?

This history has the Isreal united under the "never again" belief.

Americans, being ignorant and self-absorbed, make things worse. See 4E Dave Chappelle post.

That Mufti guy visited Germany in 1943 Heisy.  So they coexisted I suppose but it wasn't exactly peaches and cream.  I also can't think of another country that was attacked, and attacked, and attacked, and attacked and then wound up giving back territory they had won after a war.  We also seem to forget how things were for Palestinians when Jordan, Egypt, and Syria controlled major territories.  Israel is freaking tiny compared to the vast area of the Middle East.