Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[Pakuni]

I know it's difficult for people to put themselves in others' shoes, and I know that some very smart and empathetic folks do not approve of some of Israel's actions over the past many decades. But those highly critical of Israel's actions right now - not past policy, but what's going on right now - might want to try to try Israeli shoes on today.

What would you expect from American leaders if we were attacked, your own children were put in harm's way, and our very existence as a people were threatened?

I am a pacifist, and I'm hardly an apologist for Israel. But Israel's gotta do what Israel's gotta do to protect its own people. Innocents will die, they always do in war. But it's hard for me to blame Israel for saying, "Better their innocents than our innocents."

I've gone on record several times saying Israel has every right to defend itself and I hope they wipe out Hamas. And I blame Hamas for the latest round of violence.
That said, I'm not of the belief that killing civilians - and in some instances, taking steps to intentionally harm civilians - is OK.  "Better their innocents than our innocents" is a false dilemma that presumes that Israel's only way to protect itself and eliminate Hamas is to kill innocents.
I'm not naive enough to not recognize that innocents will die during war. But I don't shrug my shoulders at it either and say "dems the breaks."
The killing of Palestinian kids shouldn't be any less horrific than the killing of Israeli kids. And, as long as we're trying on others' shoes, try on those of a Palestinian mother or father, who have nothing to do with Hamas, but just dragged their dead child out of the rubble of what was their home.

[Uncle Rico]

Sure.
And to be fair, I don't there is any way the IDF would own up to blowing up a hospital.

IDF has been neglected and neutered by Netanyahu, so I wouldn't be surprised if their effectiveness isn't sharp at the moment. 

Its's a classic far right conundrum, attack the military and intelligence community weakening your nation and then having to rely on them to fix the problems you caused

[The Sultan]

I don't think anyone here doesn't this Israel has the right to go into Gaza and deal with Hamas right now. (Assuming they have a plan beyond carpet bombing everything - and I don't think that's the case.)

But they have to figure out how their response is going to impact their long-term strategy. Cause just levelling Gaza isn't going to work.

I don't know what those answers are, but fighting a perpetual war isn't going to work.

[Pakuni]

Thats fine.  But throwing skepticism at the IDF statements (which is warranted), while taking Gaza Health Ministry statements or reports (about this or other incidents) as fact is just selective confirmation of competing PR departments.

Right, that's why I said sure in response to your remark. I didn't mean that sarcastically.
I think both sides are motivated to lie and, to be cliche, the first casualty of war is ...

Perhaps IDF is correct. Perhaps not. Either way, the killing of hundreds of people at a hospital is horrific and shouldn't be casually dismissed, as one eloquent and empathetic Scooper put it, as "chit happens."

[Hards Alumni]

it was a failed hamas rocket launch that caused it contrary (shock) to what hamas et.al. is reporting

Congrats on eating the spoonfed MSM that you so often decry.

Israel admitted it was themselves on twitter, and then deleted it.

https://twitter.com/m7mdkurd/status/1714378705982665027?s=46&t=Th1rNrDUI6VYr2yH1sH8Mg

Find the video from today with the audio and compare it to the sound of a JDAM missle.  They're the same.  Hamas doesn't have JDAMs, Israel does.

https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1714351075195515048?s=20

More investigation.

https://twitter.com/jesuslasupajew/status/1714376397844574405?s=19


https://twitter.com/shaun_vids/status/1714384749001666622

[MuggsyB]

The leaders of Hamas have not protected their own people. Actually, it goes beyond that - they knowingly and unapologetically put their own people, including hundreds of thousands of innocent children under their watch, in grave danger.

They knew exactly how Israel would respond after they launched their attack last week, kidnapped people, and live-streamed executions of Israeli children. The cowards hide their weapons in hospitals and schools, hide their soldiers among civilians, dare the Israelis to risk the wrath of much of the outside world.

By their actions, Hamas leaders basically are saying, "We have absolutely no intention to protect our own children, so now it's up to Israel to protect our children - even as we gladly kill their children."

I know it's difficult for people to put themselves in others' shoes, and I know that some very smart and empathetic folks do not approve of some of Israel's actions over the past many decades. But those highly critical of Israel's actions right now - not past policy, but what's going on right now - might want to try to try Israeli shoes on today.

What would you expect from American leaders if we were attacked, your own children were put in harm's way, and our very existence as a people were threatened?

I am a pacifist, and I'm hardly an apologist for Israel. But Israel's gotta do what Israel's gotta do to protect its own people. Innocents will die, they always do in war. But it's hard for me to blame Israel for saying, "Better their innocents than our innocents."

Ty MU82 and thank your sis-in-law who knows what the F she's talking about.  But it goes beyond your points here.  Hamas INTENTIONALLY puts Palestinian children in harms way.  That's a big part of their plan which is for them to die, show the photos, and for the world, AP, UN, Amnesty International, Pakumi, Forgetful, Fluffy, and others here to go apeshit on Israel. 

Hamas is INTENTIONALLY headquartered with weapons under the hospital and schools.  They are the total scum of the fking earth and controlled by Iran.  So we can have little patty-cake so called "pacifists" here drivel about all sorts of myths, utter bull excrement, and other nonsense, but the truth is that Israel must protect herself and obliterate these assfks.  And unfortunately that means innocent people will die. 

As you stated if Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, or another terrorist group massacred 35,000+ Americans WTH do some here think we should do in that scenario?   And honestly even if we had that horror it would still not be nearly as bad as what has happened to Israel when you consider the history of persecution culminating in the Holocaust.   We must support 🇮🇱 and the 15 million Jews on the planet.  They do not deserve the hate spewing all over the place which is beyond pathetic and embarrassing. 

[Hards Alumni]

Ty MU82 and thank your sis-in-law who knows what the F she's talking about.  But it goes beyond your points here.  Hamas INTENTIONALLY puts Palestinian children in harms way.  That's a big part of their plan which is for them to die, show the photos, and for the world, AP, UN, Amnesty International, Pakumi, Forgetful, Fluffy, and others here to go apecrap on Israel. 

Hamas is INTENTIONALLY headquartered with weapons under the hospital and schools.  They are the total scum of the fking earth and controlled by Iran.  So we can have little patty-cake so called "pacifists" here drivel about all sorts of myths, utter bull excrement, and other nonsense, but the truth is that Israel must protect herself and obliterate these assfks.  And unfortunately that means innocent people will die. 

As you stated if Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, or another terrorist group massacred 35,000+ Americans WTH do some here think we should do in that scenario?   And honestly even if we had that horror it would still not be nearly as bad as what has happened to Israel when you consider the history of persecution culminating in the Holocaust.   We must support 🇮🇱 and the 15 million Jews on the planet.  They do not deserve the hate spewing all over the place which is beyond pathetic and embarrassing.

Killing civilians is cool by you.  Good to know. 

[The Sultan]

Sorry but the "history of persecution culminating in the Holocaust" can't be used as some sort of trump card to justify Israeli actions.

[Pakuni]

Killing civilians is cool by you.  Good to know.

Depends which civilians.

[JWags85]

Congrats on eating the spoonfed MSM that you so often decry.

Israel admitted it was themselves on twitter, and then deleted it.

https://twitter.com/m7mdkurd/status/1714378705982665027?s=46&t=Th1rNrDUI6VYr2yH1sH8Mg

"Congrats on eating the spoonfed MSM"...then posts something about/from a non-official Facebook account that was deleted, likely due to terms of use violations about impersonation.  While the actual Arabic IDF page still exists.  Thats in the same vein as that dipshit BLM Chicago account from last week.

[MuggsyB]

Killing civilians is cool by you.  Good to know.

Ya...that's exactly what I wrote. 

[Uncle Rico]

Killing civilians is cool by you.  Good to know.

If you say a couple of Hail Mary's, I think it's ok

[MuggsyB]

Sorry but the "history of persecution culminating in the Holocaust" can't be used as some sort of trump card to justify Israeli actions.

Again Fluffy, that's not what I stated.  I posited that in light of their history, a scenario in the United States of that magnitude wouldn't be as horrific or impactful.  All you need to know is how quickly the government and people unified there. 

[rocket surgeon]

Congrats on eating the spoonfed MSM that you so often decry.

Israel admitted it was themselves on twitter, and then deleted it.

https://twitter.com/m7mdkurd/status/1714378705982665027?s=46&t=Th1rNrDUI6VYr2yH1sH8Mg

Find the video from today with the audio and compare it to the sound of a JDAM missle.  They're the same.  Hamas doesn't have JDAMs, Israel does.

https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1714351075195515048?s=20

More investigation.

https://twitter.com/jesuslasupajew/status/1714376397844574405?s=19


https://twitter.com/shaun_vids/status/1714384749001666622

  ok yousef

[Uncle Rico]

  ok yousef

2 of 10

[The Sultan]

Again Fluffy, that's not what I stated.  I posited that in light of their history, a scenario in the United States of that magnitude wouldn't be as horrific or impactful.  All you need to know is how quickly the government and people unified there. 

When you say "if Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, or another terrorist group massacred 35,000+ Americans WTH do some here think we should do in that scenario?" it certainly seems like you are trying to justify actions.

Anyway, I have absolutely no problem with Israel defending itself.  However that doesn't mean that their actions cannot be questioned. In fact, I think a little more questioning of our own actions would have been smart in our response to 9/11 don't you think? Because we ended up getting bogged down in conflicts that killed a lot of people, and ended up not meeting any of our long-term strategic goals anyway.

[Hards Alumni]

"Congrats on eating the spoonfed MSM"...then posts something about/from a non-official Facebook account that was deleted, likely due to terms of use violations about impersonation.  While the actual Arabic IDF page still exists.  Thats in the same vein as that dipcrap BLM Chicago account from last week.

Sounds good.  I can retract that portion if you'd like.  Deal with the rest though.  Israel denies it despite the size of the explosion.  It's lies.

The rockets that Hamas uses doesn't have the ability to destroy a hospital.

[The Sultan]

When you say "if Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, or another terrorist group massacred 35,000+ Americans WTH do some here think we should do in that scenario?" it certainly seems like you are trying to justify actions.

Anyway, I have absolutely no problem with Israel defending itself.  However that doesn't mean that their actions cannot be questioned. In fact, I think a little more questioning of our own actions would have been smart in our response to 9/11 don't you think? Because we ended up getting bogged down in conflicts that killed a lot of people, and ended up not meeting any of our long-term strategic goals anyway.

Because if I again point out, that I think Hamas was prodded by Iran to do this to scuttle a peace deal with Saudi Arabia. A shitshow of a response by Israel, could set that back years if not decades - and could jeopardize ones in place with UAE, Jordan and Egypt.

So Israel DOES have to be careful with its response.  Not just for the sake of not killing innocents, but because it might ruin its chance for more regional stability.

[Pakuni]

  ok yousef

What would you call it if someone responded to one of Doc's posts with "ok moshe"?

[MuggsyB]

When you say "if Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, or another terrorist group massacred 35,000+ Americans WTH do some here think we should do in that scenario?" it certainly seems like you are trying to justify actions.

Anyway, I have absolutely no problem with Israel defending itself.  However that doesn't mean that their actions cannot be questioned. In fact, I think a little more questioning of our own actions would have been smart in our response to 9/11 don't you think? Because we ended up getting bogged down in conflicts that killed a lot of people, and ended up not meeting any of our long-term strategic goals anyway.

It's about understanding that they can't respond without destroying Hamas at minimum.  It you don't accept that, and what that will unfortunately take, then you're failing to comprehend basic reality. 

[JWags85]

Sounds good.  I can retract that portion if you'd like.  Deal with the rest though.  Israel denies it despite the size of the explosion.  It's lies.

The rockets that Hamas uses doesn't have the ability to destroy a hospital.

For arguments sake, what if a rocket hits a building with a bunch of other rockets and ammunition in it?  It wouldn't be the first time Hamas has misfired a rocket back into Gaza or that they stored weapons and ammunition in a hospital.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

What would you call it if someone responded to one of Doc's posts with "ok moshe"?

Perhaps we should use him as inspiration and start counting the number of Islamophobic dentists here. There's at least 2!

[The Sultan]

It's about understanding that they can't respond without destroying Hamas at minimum.  It you don't accept that, and what that will unfortunately take, then you're failing to comprehend basic reality. 

Because they aren't going to "destroy" Hamas - or at least not do it without killing thousands of civilians.  They can most definitely severely limit them by killing their leadership as well as destroying their arms.

[Hards Alumni]

For arguments sake, what if a rocket hits a building with a bunch of other rockets and ammunition in it?  It wouldn't be the first time Hamas has misfired a rocket back into Gaza or that they stored weapons and ammunition in a hospital.

Boy that sure would be a very interesting coincidence. The hypothesis here is that the rocket misfires, and then turns around and lands exactly in an ammo/rocket depot is? 

[lawdog77]

Boy that sure would be a very interesting coincidence. The hypothesis here is that the rocket misfires, and then turns around and lands exactly in an ammo/rocket depot is?

Sounds like you want it to be Israel's fault. When choosing between the IDF version or the Hamas version, I choose IDF.