Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[MU82]

Y'all are delusional and out of touch with reality if you believe anti-Israel doesn't equate to anti-semitism . They are one and the same and cannot be separated in an attempt to soften the blow with semantics, hey?

There are degrees to everything. For example, as a person who was born and raised Jewish, I am strongly against Bibi wanting to turn Israel into a theocracy that he lords over, as he's trying to do. I don't believe that's anti-Israel, and it obviously isn't antisemitic. It's a problem with the way a corrupt leader wants to rule.

But sure, there are many - millions - who are both anti-Israel and antisemitic. Putin is one of the biggies, and yet people you admire defer to him all the time.

Meanwhile, y'all are delusional and out of touch with reality if you believe someone who is pro-Israel can't be antisemitic. Your 91-felony criminal defendant is exactly that, and he's proven it time and again. Saying he's not antisemitic just because he's in bed with Bibi is an attempt to soften the blow with semantics, nu?

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

I agree with much of this. Often, comments criticizing Israeli leadership are not antisemitic.

But sometimes they are, or they serve as dog whistles.

It goes the other way, too. The previous president is generally pro-Israel but he has a long, ugly history of supporting antisemitism.

Omar has pushed some antisemitic tropes. Of course, sincere or not (only she can know), she did apologize. And the national Democratic Party condemned her statements.

Contrast that to Ms. Jewish Space Laser, an overt antisemite who has been given a prominent role by the GOP, is regularly praised by the unquestioned leader of the party, and is being mentioned as a possible VP candidate.

Thank you for explaining your thinking. It's good to know your perspective on something I may be making assumptions on that I am not privy to experiencing personally.

[tower912]

A chief of naval operations might be beneficial as a carrier group is moved to the eastern Mediterranean.   How is that for American politics?    Or, ponder all of those top secret documents floating around as we try and figure out how Hamas so thoroughly duped Mossad. 

Lies, treachery,  and deceit in the middle east leads to human tragedy.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

https://x.com/nathanjrobinson/status/1711185184177975447?s=46&t=G2FhP_F2kWewaBOpvRv5lg

More or less along the lines of what many have said around here.

[muwarrior69]

At least 260 people murdered at a music festival. Disgusting.

76 children have already died in Israeli bombings of housing complexes. Also Disgusting.

There are no winners in this conflict. And no winners in all the historic conflict in Israel/Palestine.

They attack Jewish children then hide behind their own children; that is disgusting.

[forgetful]

They attack Jewish children then hide behind their own children; that is disgusting.

Yes, Hamas is disgusting.

But Israel has bombed Mosques, Hospitals, and housing complexes already, that had no connection to Hamas, besides maybe a Hamas member living, worshipping or being treated there. Doctor's without borders was even calling out Israel for bombing hospitals, and ambulances.

I've said it in other contexts and it applies here too. War is ugly, atrocities being committed on all sides.

[rocket surgeon]

Yes, Hamas is disgusting.

But Israel has bombed Mosques, Hospitals, and housing complexes already, that had no connection to Hamas, besides maybe a Hamas member living, worshipping or being treated there. Doctor's without borders was even calling out Israel for bombing hospitals, and ambulances.

I've said it in other contexts and it applies here too. War is ugly, atrocities being committed on all sides.

   so it's a "bothsiderism" thing then??  i think this was tipped to onesiderism suddenly.  weird how iran is celebrating this just a few weeks after getting their hostages back along with $6 billion freed up?  never never ever negotiate with a terrorist.  nuclear deal??  don't make me cry

[4everwarriors]

Yes, Hamas is disgusting.

But Israel has bombed Mosques, Hospitals, and housing complexes already, that had no connection to Hamas, besides maybe a Hamas member living, worshipping or being treated there. Doctor's without borders was even calling out Israel for bombing hospitals, and ambulances.

I've said it in other contexts and it applies here too. War is ugly, atrocities being committed on all sides.

Then Hamas should not store war weapons in schools, hospitals, and mosques, aina?

[jesmu84]

How do y'all feel about apartheid states?

[MU82]

Here's NYT's David Leonhardt's take of how recent U.S. administrations have affected the world order. He spares nobody ...

Why has American power receded? Some of the change is unavoidable. Dominant countries don't remain dominant forever. But the U.S. has also made strategic mistakes that are accelerating the arrival of a multipolar world.

Among those mistakes: Presidents of both parties naïvely believed that a richer China would inevitably be a friendlier China — and failed to recognize that the U.S. was building up its own rival through lenient trade policies, as the political scientist John Mearsheimer has argued. In Afghanistan and Iraq, the U.S. spent much of the early 21st century fighting costly wars. The Iraq war was especially damaging because it was an unprovoked war that George W. Bush chose to start. And the humiliating retreat from Afghanistan, overseen by President Biden, made the U.S. look weaker still.

Perhaps the biggest damage to American prestige has come from Donald Trump, who has rejected the very idea that the U.S. should lead the world. Trump withdrew from international agreements and disdained successful alliances like NATO. He has signaled that, if he reclaims the presidency in 2025, he may abandon Ukraine.

In the case of Israel, Trump encouraged Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel's prime minister, to show little concern for Palestinian interests and instead seek a maximal Israeli victory. Netanyahu, of course, did not start this new war. Hamas did, potentially with support from Iran, the group's longtime backer, and Hamas committed shocking human rights violations this past weekend, captured on video.

But Netanyahu's extremism has contributed to the turmoil between Israel and Palestinian groups like Hamas. An editorial in Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper, yesterday argued, "The prime minister, who has prided himself on his vast political experience and irreplaceable wisdom in security matters, completely failed to identify the dangers he was consciously leading Israel into when establishing a government of annexation and dispossession." Netanyahu, Haaretz added, adopted "a foreign policy that openly ignored the existence and rights of Palestinians."

[Uncle Rico]

Here's NYT's David Leonhardt's take of how recent U.S. administrations have affected the world order. He spares nobody ...

Why has American power receded? Some of the change is unavoidable. Dominant countries don't remain dominant forever. But the U.S. has also made strategic mistakes that are accelerating the arrival of a multipolar world.

Among those mistakes: Presidents of both parties naïvely believed that a richer China would inevitably be a friendlier China — and failed to recognize that the U.S. was building up its own rival through lenient trade policies, as the political scientist John Mearsheimer has argued. In Afghanistan and Iraq, the U.S. spent much of the early 21st century fighting costly wars. The Iraq war was especially damaging because it was an unprovoked war that George W. Bush chose to start. And the humiliating retreat from Afghanistan, overseen by President Biden, made the U.S. look weaker still.

Perhaps the biggest damage to American prestige has come from Donald Trump, who has rejected the very idea that the U.S. should lead the world. Trump withdrew from international agreements and disdained successful alliances like NATO. He has signaled that, if he reclaims the presidency in 2025, he may abandon Ukraine.

In the case of Israel, Trump encouraged Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel's prime minister, to show little concern for Palestinian interests and instead seek a maximal Israeli victory. Netanyahu, of course, did not start this new war. Hamas did, potentially with support from Iran, the group's longtime backer, and Hamas committed shocking human rights violations this past weekend, captured on video.

But Netanyahu's extremism has contributed to the turmoil between Israel and Palestinian groups like Hamas. An editorial in Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper, yesterday argued, "The prime minister, who has prided himself on his vast political experience and irreplaceable wisdom in security matters, completely failed to identify the dangers he was consciously leading Israel into when establishing a government of annexation and dispossession." Netanyahu, Haaretz added, adopted "a foreign policy that openly ignored the existence and rights of Palestinians."

Netanyahu's failure is complete

[MUBurrow]

   so it's a "bothsiderism" thing then??  i think this was tipped to onesiderism suddenly. 

Oh sure, now ya'll want to bothsiderism violence in the Middle East!?!

[Pakuni]

Netanyahu's failure is complete

I believe it is noted dental philosopher 4ever who said something about electing the same people over and over.

[forgetful]

Then Hamas should not store war weapons in schools, hospitals, and mosques, aina?

1. There is no evidence any of those sites had any weapons. It would appear that at least for hitting the mosque, Israel hit it because a target was worshiping there.

2. Even if there were weapons there, it is a war crime to target them.

There is no excuse whatsoever to target innocent civilians, including children and toddlers. We rightly damn Russia when it does so, it is equally wrong when Israel does this.

Israel has the capabilities of doing targeted strikes. They were dropping barrel bombs indiscriminately on housing complexes.

[MU82]

Elon Musk is here to "help" ...

As false information about the rapidly changing war between Gaza Strip militants and Israel proliferated on the social media platform X over the weekend, owner Elon Musk personally recommended that users follow accounts notorious for promoting lies.

"For following the war in real-time, @WarMonitors & @sentdefender are good," Musk posted on the platform formerly called Twitter on Sunday morning to 150 million follower accounts. That post was viewed 11 million times in three hours, drawing thanks from those two accounts, before Musk deleted it.

Both were among the most important early spreaders of a false claim in May that there had been an explosion near the White House. The Dow Jones Industrial Average stock index briefly dropped 85 points before that story was debunked.

[Pakuni]

   so it's a "bothsiderism" thing then??  i think this was tipped to onesiderism suddenly.  weird how iran is celebrating this just a few weeks after getting their hostages back along with $6 billion freed up?  never never ever negotiate with a terrorist.  nuclear deal??  don't make me cry

This was debunked pages ago. Keep up.

[MU82]

This was debunked pages ago. Keep up.

Stop interfering. They desperately need this war to have been funded by that $6 billion.

[Uncle Rico]

I believe it is noted dental philosopher 4ever who said something about electing the same people over and over.

How he still remains a voice in Israel governance is both amazing and alarming.

[Jockey]

Elon Musk is here to "help" ...

As false information about the rapidly changing war between Gaza Strip militants and Israel proliferated on the social media platform X over the weekend, owner Elon Musk personally recommended that users follow accounts notorious for promoting lies.

"For following the war in real-time, @WarMonitors & @sentdefender are good," Musk posted on the platform formerly called Twitter on Sunday morning to 150 million follower accounts. That post was viewed 11 million times in three hours, drawing thanks from those two accounts, before Musk deleted it.

Both were among the most important early spreaders of a false claim in May that there had been an explosion near the White House. The Dow Jones Industrial Average stock index briefly dropped 85 points before that story was debunked.

Musk has told us over and over again who he is. Believe him.

[JWags85]

There is no excuse whatsoever to target innocent civilians, including children and toddlers. We rightly damn Russia when it does so, it is equally wrong when Israel does this.

Israel has the capabilities of doing targeted strikes. They were dropping barrel bombs indiscriminately on housing complexes.

"Target innocent civilians" implies the goal/aim is to kill civilians.  Stating they should be more precise and calculated in strikes is one thing.  Saying the goal of a Israeli bomb drop or missile attack is to kill civilians is a bit ridiculous.  That's a misguided interpretation of collateral damage, IMO.

1. There is no evidence any of those sites had any weapons. It would appear that at least for hitting the mosque, Israel hit it because a target was worshiping

It's is physically impossible for 5000+ rockets to be stored/launched in somewhere as small and compact as Gaza without the storage/launch sites to be next to/within civilian sites. 

Here is an article from a Putlitzer nominated journalist about that exact thing with evidence that Hamas was hiding weapons in schools and the like.  Why would things have changed from when the article was written till now?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/31/why-hamas-stores-its-weapons-inside-hospitals-mosques-and-schools/

Israeli over-agression and disregard for collateral damage is very much relevant to criticism. But we also need to stop that they are dealing with a foe that operates under any sort of international standard or code of ethics.  A foe that has shown they will willingly sacrifice their own people/civilians to achieve their goal, which again can't be understated, is the total eradication of Israel

[Pakuni]

"Target innocent civilians" implies the goal/aim is to kill civilians.  Stating they should be more precise and calculated in strikes is one thing.  Saying the goal of a Israeli bomb drop or missile attack is to kill civilians is a bit ridiculous.  That's a misguided interpretation of collateral damage, IMO.

If they're hitting civilian targets - which they indisputably are - it's disingenuous to claim they aren't trying to kill civilians. You can't intentionally blow up an apartment building and then claim any civilian deaths are accidental. Like, who did they think is going to die when you destroy a residential building?
And, if we look at the record of the Israeli government, it's beyond a doubt that they've never had an issue with collective punishment. It's been their strategy for decades.
I say this with no judgment one way or the other. But it would be naive to believe either side here wears a white hat.

[JWags85]

If they're hitting civilian targets - which they indisputably are - it's disingenuous to claim they aren't trying to kill civilians. You can't intentionally blow up an apartment building and then claim any civilian deaths are accidental. Like, who did they think is going to die when you destroy a residential building?
And, if we look at the record of the Israeli government, it's beyond a doubt that they've never had an issue with collective punishment. It's been their strategy for decades.
I say this with no judgment one way or the other. But it would be naive to believe either side here wears a white hat.

I fully agree that it's biased or naive to believe Israel wears a white hat.  But the fairly frequent response to Hamas' attack that was specifically targeting Israeli citizens, wholly separate and independent from military sites/targets, with the "Israel also targets civilians" is a false equivalency at best, and a gross justification at worst.

[Uncle Rico]

Speaking of anti-semitism

https://x.com/robertdownen_/status/1711364039513698513?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q

[MuggsyB]

I fully agree that it's biased or naive to believe Israel wears a white hat.  But the fairly frequent response to Hamas' attack that was specifically targeting Israeli citizens, wholly separate and independent from military sites/targets, with the "Israel also targets civilians" is a false equivalency at best, and a gross justification at worst.

100% correct.  You should be ashamed of yourself Pakumi.  Disgusting.to read your views. 

[21Jumpstreet]

Abhorrent, disgusting behavior by the extremist governments/leaders of Israel and Palestine. Jews and Muslims do not want to live like this, they want peace, they are being used as pawns in both a regional and global war. US intervention will be disastrous. Admittedly, I am generally against US foreign intervention and lean for a free, independent Palestine state. I ache for my Jewish/Israeli and Muslim/Palestinian brothers and sisters. Horrifying display of war and ideologic, political, nationalist, and religious extremism.

Of course, I don't know anything, and I am an observer from afar who can never understand the true pain and suffering either "side" has endured. I wish we could sympathize with all who are suffering.