collapse

* '23-'24 SOTG Tally


2023-24 Season SoG Tally
Kolek11
Ighodaro6
Jones, K.6
Mitchell2
Jones, S.1
Joplin1

'22-23
'21-22 * '20-21 * '19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

Recruiting as of 3/15/24 by Hards Alumni
[Today at 06:19:49 AM]


Shaka 2024-2025 by 1SE
[Today at 05:30:52 AM]


Academic All Americans by lawdog77
[Today at 05:26:50 AM]


2024 Transfer Portal by tower912
[Today at 05:22:31 AM]


Shaka's 2023-2024 Season Accomplishments by 1SE
[Today at 03:36:17 AM]


Big East 2024 Offseason by WeAreMarquette96
[April 17, 2024, 11:14:56 PM]


Maximilian Langenfeld by withoutbias
[April 17, 2024, 10:44:37 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: The long cold summer

Marquette
Marquette

Open Practice

Date/Time: Oct 11, 2024 ???
TV: NA
Schedule for 2023-24
27-10

Author Topic: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?  (Read 6294 times)

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22862
Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« on: February 02, 2023, 07:46:02 AM »
How many PGs are playing better than Tyler Kolek is? Few if any. And none in the Big East lately, including Boum.

He's the on-court leader for a top-15 team, he's top-3 in the nation in a major statistical category while directing the most efficient offense in the country, he's got a great A/TO ratio, and he's already been getting some pub, such as this twit from a former Clemson player who is now in Sweden: https://twitter.com/T_Oglesby22/status/1620993965142188033

The biggest mark against him is his relatively low scoring average (11.2 ppg), which has led to the perception that he can't beat you by scoring.

Over the last 5 games, however, here are Kolek's numbers:

95 points -- 19.0 average
37 assists -- 7.4 average
27 rebounds -- 5.4 average
9 steals -- 1.8 average
12 turnovers -- 2.4 average
33-63 from the floor -- .524
11-25 from 3 -- .440

That's brought his season percentages from .474 overall and .375 from 3.

In 12 conference games for the Big East's first-place team, Kolek is averaging 13.7 points on .509 shooting (.350 from 3), 7.9 assists, 4.3 rebounds, 2.3 steals, 2.0 turnovers.

By comparison, Boum is averaging 14.0 points on .411 shooting (.349 from 3), 5.9 assists and 4.3 rebounds in Big East play. At the very least, that's a dead heat, and it's pretty easy to argue that Tyler's numbers are better.

If Kolek can continue being a scoring threat, along with all the other stuff he does for our team, and if Marquette keeps winning to garner more and more national attention, he just might have a shot at All-American and BEPOY.

I'm a big Oso guy and I consider him indispensable because we don't have anybody else who can do what he does offensively while manning the middle of our defense. But Kolek's pretty damn indispensable, too.

Credit to Jockey for talking about Tyler as a potential All-American before anybody else did.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23671
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2023, 07:51:19 AM »
And credit to those who said Sean Jones would start at PG.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Shooter McGavin

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2701
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2023, 07:52:56 AM »
Yep he should be in the conversation for all American.  His development, especially adding consistent scoring, is the key to the success of this team.  He will get his hardware.

MuggsyB

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 13027
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2023, 08:52:12 AM »
Yes.  I mentioned a few days ago he should be considered for national A-A teams. 

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22862
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2023, 09:35:03 AM »
IMHO he's got to keep looking for his shot when opportunities present themselves (and obviously needs to keep making them). That will make us an even more dangerous team, and it will move Tyler up in the national conversation.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

NCMUFan

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2554
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2023, 09:54:09 AM »
How we doing?
What's going on?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSr09GTW6No

JWags85

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2993
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2023, 12:47:36 PM »
Honestly for all the discussion about the legit NBA prospects of Oso, Omax, and Ross, I would be shocked if Kolek doesn't play a few seasons in the NBA.

Provided he continues his improvement and reliability from outside, he's got good size and build for the 1, exceptional passing and vision, and excellent BB IQ.  His main knock is his athleticism, he doesn't have a great first step, but he wouldn't be the only one. 

Look at TJ McConnell, at this stage in their careers, Kolek is a better passer, a better shooter, better scorer, and has better size.  McConnell was probably a better defender, but Kolek isn't a traffic cone.

Same with Fred Van Vleet.  Another sturdy PG who isn't super quick.  Again, Kolek may have him beat on a few things at this stage, especially scoring.


Also, Ogelsby has been beating the drum for Marquette all year, which is awesome.  But not surprising as he played for Shaka at Clemson and clearly is a big fan of him.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2023, 02:02:22 PM by JWags85 »

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22862
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2023, 01:41:18 PM »
Assuming he continues to improve, especially his 3-point shot, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Kolek make some NBA money, either.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

lawdog77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2518
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2023, 02:22:49 PM »
Honestly for all the discussion about the legit NBA prospects of Oso, Omax, and Ross, I would be shocked if Kolek doesn't play a few seasons in the NBA.

Provided he continues his improvement and reliability from outside, he's got good size and build for the 1, exceptional passing and vision, and excellent BB IQ.  His main knock is his athleticism, he doesn't have a great first step, but he wouldn't be the only one. 

Look at TJ McConnell, at this stage in their careers, Kolek is a better passer, a better shooter, better scorer, and has better size.  McConnell was probably a better defender, but Kolek isn't a traffic cone.

Same with Fred Van Vleet.  Another sturdy PG who isn't super quick.  Again, Kolek may have him beat on a few things at this stage, especially scoring.


Also, Ogelsby has been beating the drum for Marquette all year, which is awesome.  But not surprising as he played for Shaka at Clemson and clearly is a big fan of him.
I agree with your post, except for the bolded. Van Vleet is almost averaging 20 points a game

wisblue

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1381
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2023, 02:31:45 PM »
I will say this, his running hook shot in the final minute was the offensive play of the game. At that point, both teams had gone about 3 tense minutes without scoring and that gave MU its biggest lead of the night, and forced Nova to rush a shot and then foul. After he made the two FT's, the game was effectively over, except in the eyes of people (like the guy sitting next to me at the game) who were interested in MU covering.

The way the NBA values 3 point shooting these days, Kolek will have to make significant improvements in that area to get a lot of playing time. But, there's no reason he can't do that.

As for All American this year I just don't think he has the gaudy scoring numbers that will catch the attention of national voters.

BLWarrior91

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2023, 03:15:45 PM »
It’s hard to describe just how good Kolek is and what he means to this team.  He is the ultimate leader.

When he starts knocking down threes, he becomes lethal because they have no idea how to guard him.  He can beat you with his shot, a drive, a pass.  If he draws a double team, he has a unique ability to find the guy who isn’t being guarded. 

Best part is that he keeps improving and you know he out in the work during the off-season.

I don’t if his game is suited for the style of play in today’s NBA but I’d be shocked if he isn’t a head coach a decade from now. 

JWags85

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2993
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2023, 05:31:40 PM »
I don’t if his game is suited for the style of play in today’s NBA but I’d be shocked if he isn’t a head coach a decade from now.

A decade from now?  If he's not in the NBA, he'll be playing with Markus in the Euroleague.  His game is VERY much suited to high level European basketball.  Maybe a HC in two decades from now.

Stretchdeltsig

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3195
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2023, 05:40:13 PM »
Kolek and Oso  deserve to be all BE and AA.

BLWarrior91

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2023, 05:51:18 PM »
A decade from now?  If he's not in the NBA, he'll be playing with Markus in the Euroleague.  His game is VERY much suited to high level European basketball.  Maybe a HC in two decades from now.

By a decade I meant when he’s in his 30s.  That’s a great age to get your first HC position.

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23671
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2023, 05:53:21 PM »
Kolek and Oso  deserve to be all BE and AA.
Perhaps.  In our hearts, certainly.  But they won't be.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

GB Warrior

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2308
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2023, 06:43:45 PM »
I suspect voters will be turned off by a PPG mark around 11 but he should absolutely be in the conversation.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22862
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2023, 07:38:50 PM »
I suspect voters will be turned off by a PPG mark around 11 but he should absolutely be in the conversation.

It's 11.2 now. Just a few weeks ago, it was 9.2. So we'll see what the next month brings.

I do tend to agree that he probably won't put up enough points to wow voters. Gillespie averaged 15.6 as a senior. Kolek probably needs to get to 15 and Marquette needs to keep winning. He'd need to average about 23 to get there. Even though he has averaged 19 his last 5 games, that's a tall order.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

BallBoy

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 937
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2023, 08:00:27 PM »
Don’t see it. In order to be AA he would need to be top 4 point guard and Oso top 4 center in the country. We are comparing them to other players in our league as a reason they should be all American.

There are four leagues that get more pub right now and there just needs to be one better player in those leagues.  There are four PGs in the mock NBA draft right now.

I can see All Big East. 

pbiflyer

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1748
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2023, 08:02:07 PM »
I suspect voters will be turned off by a PPG mark around 11 but he should absolutely be in the conversation.

There’s a quote I’m reminded of about voters……
« Last Edit: February 03, 2023, 11:31:29 AM by pbiflyer »

Jockey

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2036
  • “We want to get rid of the ballots"
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2023, 08:34:28 PM »
When I predicted AA honors for Tyler, I was not predicting 1st team. I think it is very likely he is Honorable Mention - maybe even 3rd team.

If MU wins the BE - meaning they would probably be a Top 10 team that is garnering a lot of national attention - I would be surprised if he didn’t get national notice.


Coleman

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3450
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2023, 11:19:11 AM »
I doubt Kolek gets more than a cup of coffee in the NBA (I'd love to be wrong). He is a great, great, college player and will make A LOT of money in Europe. We are lucky to have him at MU.

jfp61

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1434
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2023, 11:32:33 AM »
How many PGs are playing better than Tyler Kolek is? Few if any. And none in the Big East lately, including Boum.

He's the on-court leader for a top-15 team, he's top-3 in the nation in a major statistical category while directing the most efficient offense in the country, he's got a great A/TO ratio, and he's already been getting some pub, such as this twit from a former Clemson player who is now in Sweden: https://twitter.com/T_Oglesby22/status/1620993965142188033

The biggest mark against him is his relatively low scoring average (11.2 ppg), which has led to the perception that he can't beat you by scoring.

Over the last 5 games, however, here are Kolek's numbers:

95 points -- 19.0 average
37 assists -- 7.4 average
27 rebounds -- 5.4 average
9 steals -- 1.8 average
12 turnovers -- 2.4 average
33-63 from the floor -- .524
11-25 from 3 -- .440

That's brought his season percentages from .474 overall and .375 from 3.

In 12 conference games for the Big East's first-place team, Kolek is averaging 13.7 points on .509 shooting (.350 from 3), 7.9 assists, 4.3 rebounds, 2.3 steals, 2.0 turnovers.

By comparison, Boum is averaging 14.0 points on .411 shooting (.349 from 3), 5.9 assists and 4.3 rebounds in Big East play. At the very least, that's a dead heat, and it's pretty easy to argue that Tyler's numbers are better.

If Kolek can continue being a scoring threat, along with all the other stuff he does for our team, and if Marquette keeps winning to garner more and more national attention, he just might have a shot at All-American and BEPOY.

I'm a big Oso guy and I consider him indispensable because we don't have anybody else who can do what he does offensively while manning the middle of our defense. But Kolek's pretty damn indispensable, too.

Credit to Jockey for talking about Tyler as a potential All-American before anybody else did.

Yea no...

Marcus Sasser, Jalen Pickett, Kendric Davis, Markquis Nowell, Darius Mcghee at Liberty.

Probably some other advance stat arguments for Reece Beekman, one of the Tennessee guards, and maybe even one purdue guard if we get nerdy.


Heck I would have Kam over Tyler. Tyler has been the best player the past 5 games but this is a huge overreaction.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22862
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2023, 02:51:14 PM »
Yea no...

Marcus Sasser, Jalen Pickett, Kendric Davis, Markquis Nowell, Darius Mcghee at Liberty.

Probably some other advance stat arguments for Reece Beekman, one of the Tennessee guards, and maybe even one purdue guard if we get nerdy.


Heck I would have Kam over Tyler. Tyler has been the best player the past 5 games but this is a huge overreaction.

I think he has too much scoring ground to make up to be an All-American pick. I hope he's at least honorable mention.

I will agree to disagree with you about Tyler/Kam. Voters will value Kolek's assists, and most will have watched Marquette play several times, so they will have seen how Kolek makes the nation's #1 offense go. I believe the All-Big East and BEPOY voting will put Tyler ahead of Kam, perhaps well ahead of him. If I end up being wrong about that, I will happily tip my hat to you.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

PGsHeroes32

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 13784
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2023, 02:53:43 PM »
Love Kam

But Kam over TK on any sort of "all team" whether its BE or america is insanity. And it wont happen.

Barring some insane run by Kam starting Sunday.
Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

MuMark

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4320
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2023, 02:59:32 PM »
McDermott was on field of 68 recently and gushed about Tyler…….


Definitely the team MVP at this point of the season…….even if in reality we couldn’t stand losing any of our top 4.

lawdog77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2518
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2023, 03:02:17 PM »
Yea no...

Marcus Sasser, Jalen Pickett, Kendric Davis, Markquis Nowell, Darius Mcghee at Liberty.

Probably some other advance stat arguments for Reece Beekman, one of the Tennessee guards, and maybe even one purdue guard if we get nerdy.


Heck I would have Kam over Tyler. Tyler has been the best player the past 5 games but this is a huge overreaction.
Darius Mcghee is not a point guard. He is averaging 2.8 assists a game. His two high major opponents (Nothwestern and Alabama), he has 0 assists.And he shot 9-29 in those games.

Agree on the others though. But success of the team may put him past a few of those.

Dr. Blackheart

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 13061
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2023, 03:03:27 PM »
Love Kam

But Kam over TK on any sort of "all team" whether its BE or america is insanity. And it wont happen.

Barring some insane run by Kam starting Sunday.

In conference games only, amongst players with 20% or more usage, Tyler is the #1 player in Orating. Kam #7.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22862
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2023, 03:45:25 PM »
In conference games only, amongst players with 20% or more usage, Tyler is the #1 player in Orating. Kam #7.

Also, Kolek is averaging only 2 fewer points than Jones in conference games while contributing 4x as many assists. Tyler also has more rebounds and steals. Again, I'd be surprised if Kam is above Tyler on any of the BEast honor lists.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

jfp61

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1434
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2023, 04:20:42 PM »
I think he has too much scoring ground to make up to be an All-American pick. I hope he's at least honorable mention.

I will agree to disagree with you about Tyler/Kam. Voters will value Kolek's assists, and most will have watched Marquette play several times, so they will have seen how Kolek makes the nation's #1 offense go. I believe the All-Big East and BEPOY voting will put Tyler ahead of Kam, perhaps well ahead of him. If I end up being wrong about that, I will happily tip my hat to you.

Probably right about the voters.

But Kam No Kolek is a better lineup than Kolek No Kam, so far this year. 30.1 Adj. Net Rating vs 19.2. Marquette somehow stays insanely efficient without Kolek and with Kam. With Kam they have a lower turnover rate.

Better on Defense and Offense. This is surprising because i think Kolek is a better defender than Kam.  Plus the Kam Lineup defends the three better (my guess as to why is i bet Joplin is in with Kolek and not Kam).

It becomes more Kam centric and i would be concerned if it happened all of the time, but Kam's impact is probably larger on this MU teams than Koleks. Its just probably a bad time to say this because Kolek is on a heater and could easily stay on one and flip this in 1 or 2 games.

Shooter McGavin

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2701
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2023, 04:36:35 PM »
This team will make noise this year in the tournament and most of the starters will have to shine to do it.  Next year if they return and this team is preseason top 10, Kolek and Oso will be on some preseason all American lists.  Kam will get his due as well.

Obviously things have to go well this year to create buzz but so far so good.

pbiflyer

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1748
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2023, 04:39:51 PM »
Love Kam

But Kam over TK on any sort of "all team" whether its BE or america is insanity. And it wont happen.

Barring some insane run by Kam starting Sunday.

@$@*! , I bought tickets to a game on Saturday!

PGsHeroes32

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 13784
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2023, 04:57:57 PM »
@$@*! , I bought tickets to a game on Saturday!

Sh it

was looking at something else that was Sunday at the time I typed it.
Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

Goose

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10560
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2023, 05:02:26 PM »
Shooter

If they make noise in March, which I expect, and return the guys next year I think they will be top 5 going into next season.

Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10463
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2023, 05:09:48 PM »
Shooter

If they make noise in March, which I expect, and return the guys next year I think they will be top 5 going into next season.

Gonna enjoy the season. Last time we had that mindset we didn't know the team had taken an elective in letter writing.
Maigh Eo for Sam

Shooter McGavin

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2701
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2023, 05:35:30 PM »
Gonna enjoy the season. Last time we had that mindset we didn't know the team had taken an elective in letter writing.

Ha! 

Goose,  i agree top five is definitely a possibility.

PGsHeroes32

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 13784
Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

Elonsmusk

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2277
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2023, 05:52:31 PM »
Probably right about the voters.

But Kam No Kolek is a better lineup than Kolek No Kam, so far this year. 30.1 Adj. Net Rating vs 19.2. Marquette somehow stays insanely efficient without Kolek and with Kam. With Kam they have a lower turnover rate.

Better on Defense and Offense. This is surprising because i think Kolek is a better defender than Kam.  Plus the Kam Lineup defends the three better (my guess as to why is i bet Joplin is in with Kolek and not Kam).

It becomes more Kam centric and i would be concerned if it happened all of the time, but Kam's impact is probably larger on this MU teams than Koleks. Its just probably a bad time to say this because Kolek is on a heater and could easily stay on one and flip this in 1 or 2 games.

This is where advanced stats fail.  Kam is extremely valuable to the team, yet you take Kolek off this team and we are probably a 40-70 ranked offense. 

BLWarrior91

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 582
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2023, 06:18:16 PM »
Kolek and Kam…Fire and Ice

Frenns Liquor Depot

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3190
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2023, 06:32:30 PM »

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22862
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2023, 06:49:34 PM »
More TK love

https://heatcheckcbb.com/rauf-report-why-tennessee-is-overrated-how-texas-is-primed-for-tournament-success-more/

Thanks for that link. I especially liked this paragraph, and agree with it wholeheartedly:

I firmly believe that if he played for a team like Villanova, Duke or Kansas, there would be a bigger national conversation about his standing among the nation’s best point guards. Maybe even some debate over his status as an All-American. He is that good, and it’s time we started appreciating that.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

lawdog77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2518
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2023, 07:39:48 PM »
Kolek and Kam…Fire and Ice
I prefer Shake and Bake

noblewarrior

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2023, 08:36:11 PM »
Kolek and Kam…Fire and Ice

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1991/03/14/fire-ice-a-pair-of-aces-at-nc-state/fc407cfb-96b7-4a66-8b0e-e7a714627ad4/

Retro article…The duo i first heard ‘fire and ice’ used for.  Crazy article w/mentions of point shaving and paying players. 

jfp61

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1434
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2023, 08:47:17 PM »
This is where advanced stats fail.  Kam is extremely valuable to the team, yet you take Kolek off this team and we are probably a 40-70 ranked offense.

Long term yes... In bursts, just not true. The exact opposite is true. Kam only lineups are a #1 offense Tyler only offenses are a #9 offense.


jfp61

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1434
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2023, 08:48:26 PM »
Darius Mcghee is not a point guard. He is averaging 2.8 assists a game. His two high major opponents (Nothwestern and Alabama), he has 0 assists.And he shot 9-29 in those games.

Agree on the others though. But success of the team may put him past a few of those.

Yes because All-American teams have a strict positional labels. Oh wait, they don't at all

I don't think he is a better PG. But he is probably a better guard
« Last Edit: February 03, 2023, 08:54:47 PM by jfp61 »

Shooter McGavin

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2701
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2023, 09:10:48 PM »
Thanks for that link. I especially liked this paragraph, and agree with it wholeheartedly:

I firmly believe that if he played for a team like Villanova, Duke or Kansas, there would be a bigger national conversation about his standing among the nation’s best point guards. Maybe even some debate over his status as an All-American. He is that good, and it’s time we started appreciating that.

Preseason all American next year 82!  Book it!

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22862
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #45 on: February 03, 2023, 09:26:30 PM »
Preseason all American next year 82!  Book it!

Wouldn’t surprise me at all, especially if he and the rest of our heroes take care of business in March.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

withoutbias

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 798
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2023, 09:35:00 PM »
My heroes are something different than 18-22 year old athletes.

PGsHeroes32

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 13784
Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22862
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2023, 10:46:09 PM »
My heroes are something different than 18-22 year old athletes.

Yes, because I actually meant that Marquette basketball players are any Scooper's actual heroes in life, as every word on interwebs sites is to be taken literally.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Shooter McGavin

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2701
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #49 on: February 04, 2023, 12:51:46 AM »
My heroes are something different than 18-22 year old athletes.

Ha! Teal?  If not you either think too highly of yourself or too lowly of your scoop brethren. 

Goose

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10560
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #50 on: February 04, 2023, 01:36:53 AM »
Shooter

I think it is a tie for bias between thinking too highly of himself or too lowly of his scoop brethren. He is hands down the most disrespectful poster on scoop.

I wonder how many other message boards he visits to agitate people. Judging by the fact many of his posts are non-basketball related, he surely is not here to discuss Marquette basketball.


JWags85

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2993
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2023, 01:46:27 AM »
My heroes are something different than 18-22 year old athletes.

Absolutely, mine is a 33 year old athlete, Jimmy Butler

lawdog77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2518
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2023, 05:50:33 AM »
Yes because All-American teams have a strict positional labels. Oh wait, they don't at all

I don't think he is a better PG. But he is probably a better guard
He's 5-9 , paying at barely a mid major, and in his small sample size against high majors he sucked balls. Give me Kolek every day and twice on Sunday

brewcity77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 26437
  • Warning-This poster may trigger thin skinned users
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2023, 06:42:16 AM »
Yea no...

Marcus Sasser, Jalen Pickett, Kendric Davis, Markquis Nowell, Darius Mcghee at Liberty.

Probably some other advance stat arguments for Reece Beekman, one of the Tennessee guards, and maybe even one purdue guard if we get nerdy.

This is kind of a laughable list. No one is talking about Darius McGhee. As good as Pickett and Davis are, team success matters and teams in the 8-bubble lines have a tougher time getting in that conversation.

Sasser or Nowell? They're in the conversation. Beekman and Zeigler? Not really. The Purdue guards? Absolutely not.

I wouldn't have TK first team right now, but somewhere in the 2nd/3rd to honorable mention spots wouldn't shock me. Especially given the dearth of star guards. If he gets BEPOY & Marquette is a 3-seed or better, he'll be on some All-American teams.
This space reserved for a 2024 2025 National Championship celebration banner.

withoutbias

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 798
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2023, 08:33:06 AM »
Shooter

I think it is a tie for bias between thinking too highly of himself or too lowly of his scoop brethren. He is hands down the most disrespectful poster on scoop.

I wonder how many other message boards he visits to agitate people. Judging by the fact many of his posts are non-basketball related, he surely is not here to discuss Marquette basketball.

Yes. Your boys RoQQQetman, ziggy, and 4never are so much more respectful and always in topic.

jfp61

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1434
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2023, 09:17:14 AM »
This is kind of a laughable list. No one is talking about Darius McGhee. As good as Pickett and Davis are, team success matters and teams in the 8-bubble lines have a tougher time getting in that conversation.

Sasser or Nowell? They're in the conversation. Beekman and Zeigler? Not really. The Purdue guards? Absolutely not.

I wouldn't have TK first team right now, but somewhere in the 2nd/3rd to honorable mention spots wouldn't shock me. Especially given the dearth of star guards. If he gets BEPOY & Marquette is a 3-seed or better, he'll be on some All-American teams.
That's why i separated who i picked. I fully acknowledge those "advance stat arguments" are probably not for how basketball is thought of, and how the awards are give.

I wouldn't be so sure to eliminate Davis and Pickett though. Its kinda like Markus Howards senior year with both of them being their entire teams and being an 8 or 9 seed (even though both of those guys are worse than Markus). There just are no top end guards to keep them from getting considered.

Kolek's biggest issue is Kam and Oso for individual awards. But i don't mind it as an MU fan.


Goose

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10560
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #56 on: February 04, 2023, 09:33:41 AM »
bias

You are most disrespectful person on scoop and offer little in any basketball related thread. I have zero problem if that is how you want to present yourself. As for "my boys", I'll have their backs any day of the week. Note--Lenny is one "my boys" as well. The guys you noted know MU basketball history, the game and have supported the university for decades.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2023, 09:35:33 AM by Goose »

brewcity77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 26437
  • Warning-This poster may trigger thin skinned users
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #57 on: February 04, 2023, 10:32:09 AM »
I wouldn't be so sure to eliminate Davis and Pickett though. Its kinda like Markus Howards senior year with both of them being their entire teams and being an 8 or 9 seed (even though both of those guys are worse than Markus).

Markus was returning from an All-American season. With multiple 50 point games, he was a household name in CBB circles. Neither Davis nor Pickett had that level of recognition to start the year, and their teams haven't risen to the level Markus' did (#17) to gain that attention.

Really good players, but hard to see them getting the national acclaim AA requires.
This space reserved for a 2024 2025 National Championship celebration banner.

JWags85

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2993
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #58 on: February 04, 2023, 01:33:59 PM »
Markus was returning from an All-American season. With multiple 50 point games, he was a household name in CBB circles. Neither Davis nor Pickett had that level of recognition to start the year, and their teams haven't risen to the level Markus' did (#17) to gain that attention.

Really good players, but hard to see them getting the national acclaim AA requires.

Agreed, Memphis is a decent team in a mediocre conference.  And also a 2 man team.  It’s all Davis and Williams which makes his stats gaudy.

Pickett and Penn State are more of the same.  I wouldn’t be surprised to see Pickett not even be first team All B10.

There are four leagues that get more pub right now and there just needs to be one better player in those leagues.  There are four PGs in the mock NBA draft right now.

I can see All Big East.

This is just silly.  Especially since the NBA drafts on potential. 

Nick Smith and Cason Wallace will be lottery picks but neither will even be first team in their respective conferences.  Smith hasn’t played since before Christmas and was averaging 12/2/2.  Wallace isn’t even a top 3 option on his own team and averages 10/4/3.

Smith from NC St will probably get more accolades, but he’s a first round pick because of his potential as a very athletic scoring guard, not cause he’s one of the best PGs in the country

MarquetteMike1977

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1656
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #59 on: February 09, 2023, 11:33:57 AM »
Tyler Kolek has been named to the Naismith Award Mid Season Team

Goose

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10560
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #60 on: February 09, 2023, 11:35:08 AM »
Mike1977

That really is great news for Tyler. That is great company he is with on that list.

MUEng92

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4903
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #61 on: February 11, 2023, 06:50:41 AM »
My dreams aren’t normally a precursor to actual future events so Tyler is probably going to be ok.  However, I woke up during a dream this morning that I was watching an MU game.  Tyler dove for a loose ball and got into a scramble with two opponents fighting for the ball.  Tyler ended up on his back and one of the players put the side of one of his hands across Tyler’s forehead (think karate chop) and proceeded to slam the top of that hand with his other hand like a hammer and nail.  Of course in true NCAA ref fashion, no foul was called.  MU ended up losing the game.  I was livid.

DoctorV

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2557
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #62 on: February 11, 2023, 07:18:16 AM »
My dreams aren’t normally a precursor to actual future events so Tyler is probably going to be ok.  However, I woke up during a dream this morning that I was watching an MU game.  Tyler dove for a loose ball and got into a scramble with two opponents fighting for the ball.  Tyler ended up on his back and one of the players put the side of one of his hands across Tyler’s forehead (think karate chop) and proceeded to slam the top of that hand with his other hand like a hammer and nail.  Of course in true NCAA ref fashion, no foul was called.  MU ended up losing the game.  I was livid.

You’re in so deep, you’re fearing the end.

Like all seasons this one will end, too. Hopefully we get one more good/great month of basketball before it does.

As for the refs, if when it ends we are up in arms and feel wronged by them that means that
A) the season is over regardless
B) the game was likely close, otherwise we wouldn’t be griping about the refs so at least it was a good game and not a blowout
C) it’ll be a tough pill to swallow for a period of time

MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3461
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #63 on: February 11, 2023, 07:31:08 AM »
Looks like you can vote on www.hoophallawards.com.  A percentage of the vote counts toward the final awards.

Newsdreams

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9574
  • Goal - Win BE
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #64 on: February 11, 2023, 09:07:21 AM »
My dreams aren’t normally a precursor to actual future events so Tyler is probably going to be ok.  However, I woke up during a dream this morning that I was watching an MU game.  Tyler dove for a loose ball and got into a scramble with two opponents fighting for the ball.  Tyler ended up on his back and one of the players put the side of one of his hands across Tyler’s forehead (think karate chop) and proceeded to slam the top of that hand with his other hand like a hammer and nail.  Of course in true NCAA ref fashion, no foul was called.  MU ended up losing the game.  I was livid.
You been thinking about TK a lot a whole lot (TC voice)
Goal is National Championship

Stretchdeltsig

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3195
Re: Tyler Kolek ... All-American?
« Reply #65 on: February 13, 2023, 07:31:35 AM »
Kolek deserves a lot of positive recognition for his outstanding play this year. I hope he's named all BE first team and POY and an All American.