Big East Poll , NET Rankings and Team Sheets

[Shooter McGavin]

I think the BE presidents need to have a conversation with their colleague at Georgetown. Remember they still have that goofy structure where the basketball coach reports directly to the president, which worked at a unique time and place 40 years ago, but is just not how you run a modern athletic department.

They have a TV contract negotiation upcoming and I think it would serve everyone's interests to fix that program.

Yep.  This contract negotiation is huge for the stability of the Big East going forward.  Georgetown is a major brand and needs to turn this around for the long term health of the league.

[Galway Eagle]

Do they also have an intervention with DePaul's AD? I mean don't want to single out one school with them being able to point at the other and say "well what about them?!"

[The Sultan]

Do they also have an intervention with DePaul's AD? I mean don't want to single out one school with them being able to point at the other and say "well what about them?!"

They got rid of their longtime AD and are at least trying. Same with St. John's.

[brewcity77]

I think the BE presidents need to have a conversation with their colleague at Georgetown. Remember they still have that goofy structure where the basketball coach reports directly to the president, which worked at a unique time and place 40 years ago, but is just not how you run a modern athletic department.

They have a TV contract negotiation upcoming and I think it would serve everyone's interests to fix that program.

They needed to have that conversation last spring. Negotiations are already in progress. Unless they fire him today and convince Pitino to jump midseason, that ship has sailed.

[StillAWarrior]

Do they also have an intervention with DePaul's AD? I mean don't want to single out one school with them being able to point at the other and say "well what about them?!"

It couldn't hurt, but I don't think it's nearly as important. I think it would be great for the Big East if DePaul had a successful program. But I don't think that a basement dwelling DePaul is nearly as harmful to the Big East's brand as when Georgetown sucks. Georgetown is an OG Big East program and has always been one of the conference's marquee teams. I think it's much more harmful to a conference's brand when a marquee program sucks. We all look at how many teams are ranked each year and how many teams make the tournament. Nobody has expected DePaul to be one of those programs since they entered the Big East. If DePaul were to do that, it'd be gravy; great for the conference, but gravy. With Georgetown, I think they are expected to be in the mix and when they're not it's bad for the conference.

Comparable situation: if Ohio State or Michigan completely sucked, it would hurt the Big Ten's brand far more than Northwestern's continued ineptitude does.

[Herman Cain]

Big East NET rankings as of games of December 14, 2022
New Old
1   1   UConn   
32   33   Marquette   
40   42   Xavier   
47   48   Creighton   
50   51   Butler   
71   69   St. John's
84   90   Seton Hall   
100   100   Providence   
109   112   Villanova   
159   149   DePaul   
244   245   Georgetown   

December 15 Team Sheets . MU is 32

[muwarrior69]

It couldn't hurt, but I don't think it's nearly as important. I think it would be great for the Big East if DePaul had a successful program. But I don't think that a basement dwelling DePaul is nearly as harmful to the Big East's brand as when Georgetown sucks. Georgetown is an OG Big East program and has always been one of the conference's marquee teams. I think it's much more harmful to a conference's brand when a marquee program sucks. We all look at how many teams are ranked each year and how many teams make the tournament. Nobody has expected DePaul to be one of those programs since they entered the Big East. If DePaul were to do that, it'd be gravy; great for the conference, but gravy. With Georgetown, I think they are expected to be in the mix and when they're not it's bad for the conference.

Comparable situation: if Ohio State or Michigan completely sucked, it would hurt the Big Ten's brand far more than Northwestern's continued ineptitude does.

Please define a marquee team in the league outside Villanova and UCONN.

[Galway Eagle]

It couldn't hurt, but I don't think it's nearly as important. I think it would be great for the Big East if DePaul had a successful program. But I don't think that a basement dwelling DePaul is nearly as harmful to the Big East's brand as when Georgetown sucks. Georgetown is an OG Big East program and has always been one of the conference's marquee teams. I think it's much more harmful to a conference's brand when a marquee program sucks. We all look at how many teams are ranked each year and how many teams make the tournament. Nobody has expected DePaul to be one of those programs since they entered the Big East. If DePaul were to do that, it'd be gravy; great for the conference, but gravy. With Georgetown, I think they are expected to be in the mix and when they're not it's bad for the conference.

Comparable situation: if Ohio State or Michigan completely sucked, it would hurt the Big Ten's brand far more than Northwestern's continued ineptitude does.

While I don't disagree with what you're saying let's play devils advocate. Most of Georgetowns brand was born around Ewing and Irverson with a little from Mourning and Mutombo. I don't think that those fairweather fans necessarily have stuck around waiting for Georgetown but rather hopped on what is perceived as the next "cool" program. DePaul on the other hand has the largest alumni base in the big east by a decent bit and the second largest market by a decent bit.  If they got their act together it's draw wayyyyy more eyes than Georgetown. Yes, Georgetown has a stronger "return to glory" story than DePaul but that doesn't mean DePaul wouldn't have a similar headline plus bring hundreds of thousands of fans with it. There's a reason Loyola went from the Horizon to the A10 in a blink of an eye.

[The Equalizer]

It couldn't hurt, but I don't think it's nearly as important. I think it would be great for the Big East if DePaul had a successful program. But I don't think that a basement dwelling DePaul is nearly as harmful to the Big East's brand as when Georgetown sucks. Georgetown is an OG Big East program and has always been one of the conference's marquee teams. I think it's much more harmful to a conference's brand when a marquee program sucks. We all look at how many teams are ranked each year and how many teams make the tournament. Nobody has expected DePaul to be one of those programs since they entered the Big East. If DePaul were to do that, it'd be gravy; great for the conference, but gravy. With Georgetown, I think they are expected to be in the mix and when they're not it's bad for the conference.

Comparable situation: if Ohio State or Michigan completely sucked, it would hurt the Big Ten's brand far more than Northwestern's continued ineptitude does.

This is ridiculous.

The Big East brand has been extremely strong since restructuring, despite the fact that Georgetown has been mostly absent from the headlines over that time. And today's success is not based on the success of the "OG" teams from 40 years ago--the contributions that Xavier, Butler, Creighton and MU bring to the table should not be discounted.   

The world has moved on since 1984--Georgetown isn't a marquee team anymore and hasn't been for a long time.

[StillAWarrior]

Please define a marquee team in the league outside Villanova and UCONN.

I'm not sure if you're asking what makes a marquee team or if you're asking who I think are the marquee teams in the Big East are.

On the first point, I'd answer that the marquee teams are the ones that first come to mind when the average fan thinks of the conference. I think that for the Big East, that would historically have been UCONN, Georgetown, Syracuse, and Villanova. St. John's would be right on the edge of that group in my mind.

[StillAWarrior]

This is ridiculous.

The Big East brand has been extremely strong since restructuring, despite the fact that Georgetown has been mostly absent from the headlines over that time. And today's success is not based on the success of the "OG" teams from 40 years ago--the contributions that Xavier, Butler, Creighton and MU bring to the table should not be discounted.   

The world has moved on since 1984--Georgetown isn't a marquee team anymore and hasn't been for a long time.

I think that you're probably right. I also think that hurts the Big East's brand. My point in this thread is that Georgetown absolutely sucks and that's bad for the Big East.

[JakeBarnes]

Please define a marquee team in the league outside Villanova and UCONN.

marque(tt)e

[The Lens]

Which sometimes young rich people do. Not to mention he had to pay an agent and taxes and was living in NYC. I don't know how he spent his money, but he wouldn't be the first person to lose a lot of money when you had a lot of it as a young famous person living in a big market.

I also don't think it's in many people's DNA to just decide to go to their boss and say, "you know what? I stink at this job. I'm going to go back to my old job where I made 15% of what I make now. Sorry for what I did to your company!"

Stop saying agent fees.  The average agent takes 3%.  The most the NBAPA allows them to take is 4%. 

[Lennys Tap]

I also don't think it's in many people's DNA to just decide to go to their boss and say, "you know what? I stink at this job. I'm going to go back to my old job where I made 15% of what I make now. Sorry for what I did to your company!"

No disagreement with this, especially as it pertains to people in "regular jobs". But Patrick Ewing was a world class athlete and my impression is he's a pretty proud man - deservedly so. And he knows things aren't working. It might be good for everyone involved if he let his alma mater off the hook.

[wadesworld]

Stop saying agent fees.  The average agent takes 3%.  The most the NBAPA allows them to take is 4%.

3% is over $3M.

[Herman Cain]

Big East Team NET rankings as of games of December 15, 2022
New Old
1   1   UConn   
32   32   Marquette   
40   40   Xavier   
47   47   Creighton   
49   50   Butler   
71   71   St. John's
84   84   Seton Hall   
100   100   Providence   
111   109   Villanova   
157   159   DePaul   
245   244   Georgetown   

December 16 Team Sheets . MU is 32
https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2023/net-teamsheets-plus

[The Lens]

3% is over $3M.

But to squander 122 MM is because of a series of horrendously bad decisions, agent fees have nothing to do with that.    Every NBA player pays taxes & agent fees.  Not every NBA player goes broke, so it is a very lazy excuse to cite those. 

[The Lens]

It couldn't hurt, but I don't think it's nearly as important. I think it would be great for the Big East if DePaul had a successful program. But I don't think that a basement dwelling DePaul is nearly as harmful to the Big East's brand as when Georgetown sucks. Georgetown is an OG Big East program and has always been one of the conference's marquee teams. I think it's much more harmful to a conference's brand when a marquee program sucks. We all look at how many teams are ranked each year and how many teams make the tournament. Nobody has expected DePaul to be one of those programs since they entered the Big East. If DePaul were to do that, it'd be gravy; great for the conference, but gravy. With Georgetown, I think they are expected to be in the mix and when they're not it's bad for the conference.

Comparable situation: if Ohio State or Michigan completely sucked, it would hurt the Big Ten's brand far more than Northwestern's continued ineptitude does.

Georgetown has a higher Big East Q rating than even Villanova.  The Big East GOATS were Georgetown, Syracuse and eventually UConn.  St. John's would be a notch below followed by Nova.  ESPN etc lost their mind when Georgetown won the BET.  It's like Tiger winning a major now or the Cowboys or Yankees.  They are a brand that very few can match.  Not a blueblood but a brand.

[cheebs09]

Let's not forget Ewing is an accomplished actor in the critically acclaimed Space Jam. He's had some endorsement money too I'm sure.

I feel he wouldn't want to step down more for pride than money reasons. I feel like coaches are confident enough people to think they have the skills to turn it around. Heck, we saw it with Wojo.

However, he could also say, "I've got too much money to deal with this crap," and go enjoy retirement somewhere.

[MU82]

ESPN etc lost their mind when Georgetown won the BET.  It's like Tiger winning a major

No.

But I do get what you're saying.

[wadesworld]

But to squander 122 MM is because of a series of horrendously bad decisions, agent fees have nothing to do with that.    Every NBA player pays taxes & agent fees.  Not every NBA player goes broke, so it is a very lazy excuse to cite those.

Right.  Everyone spends money in different ways.  That's exactly the point.  Would everyone who made "$112M" many years ago need to make money today?  No.  But would some people?  Yes.

Yes he "made" $112M.  But after taxes and agent fees he (generously) saw $60M of that at best.  He also played in the most expensive market in the US.  Of course $60M SHOULD be plenty of money for anyone to live on, even in NYC.  But when you're young, famous, and rich, sometimes it goes quickly!  Do I know that Patrick Ewing is hurting for money, or was before he got $4M/year from Georgetown?  No.  Do I think he was/is?  No.  But do I think it's easy for people not making $4M/year to say, "The guy made a lot of money already.  Why can't he just give it up and take an 85% pay cut?!"  YUP!

[MUfan12]

Georgetown's prez gets asked about the program and goes on a tangent about the NCAA...

https://hilltophoops.substack.com/p/jack-degioia-comments-on-georgetown-basketball?sd=pf

Question: I have to ask about the basketball program. [Crowd laughter] So please, tell us the state of the basketball program. And this is coming from a person who grew up in New York, and loves Patrick Ewing to death. He is an idol.

Jack DeGioia: He's still worthy of your love. Truly he is. And he's doing everything in his power to try and turn around the program.

[Long Pause]

[Crowd Laughter]

[The Equalizer]

Georgetown has a higher Big East Q rating than even Villanova.  The Big East GOATS were Georgetown, Syracuse and eventually UConn.  St. John's would be a notch below followed by Nova.  ESPN etc lost their mind when Georgetown won the BET.  It's like Tiger winning a major now or the Cowboys or Yankees.  They are a brand that very few can match.  Not a blueblood but a brand.

Operative word: Were.

I don't get this notion that the key to success for the Big East is to roll back the clock 40 years.

Saying that Georgetown's brand today is as strong as it was in the 1980s is akin to saying that Cadillac is still the Automotive Standard of the World, or that Beirut remains the Paris of the Middle East. You can't just cherry-pick the best parts of something and say that's its brand--it's based on the whole package.  Georgetown's brand contains just as much DNA from last season's 0-19 record as it does from the 1984 championship. 

And it's hard to take a comparison of the Yankees brand (winner 27 of 118 World Series) to that of Georgetown (winner of 1 of 80 NCAA tournaments) seriously.

[muwarrior69]

I'm not sure if you're asking what makes a marquee team or if you're asking who I think are the marquee teams in the Big East are.

On the first point, I'd answer that the marquee teams are the ones that first come to mind when the average fan thinks of the conference. I think that for the Big East, that would historically have been UCONN, Georgetown, Syracuse, and Villanova. St. John's would be right on the edge of that group in my mind.

You might be right. I was watching the Maryland/UCLA game and during the first half FS1 was advertising the Georgetown/Xavier game. I only watched the first half so I don't know if they also highlighted our game against Creighton later in the broadcast.

[Mu8891]

Wow.  Those " comments " from the
Georgetown Prez were quite the filibuster!  Zzzzzzzz

They went 0 - 19 in the BE last year.
Anyone other than Ewing would have been fired.

Like DePaul, it seems they don't care at
all about the BBall program.