Can Marquette be "The Next Villanova"?

[Pakuni]

No he isn't doing anything all that unique, but if you view the recruiting process like a funnel, certain coaches are going to put less names into the top than others depending on the types of players they are looking for.  Is Shaka one of those coaches that starts with less players on the front end?  I have no idea.  But it certainly isn't unheard of for coaches to cast more broad or more narrow nets.

When I wrote about doing nothing unique, I was referring to the system he runs/culture he wants to build/player he wants to coach. Shaka's not doing anything so unique that finding a player to fit is some great challenge.

[rocky_warrior]

Shaka's not doing anything so unique that finding a player to fit is some great challenge.

C'mon now.  Not every coach wants athletic players that can play defense and shoot the ball.  Clearly that must be unique.

[The Equalizer]

2. I think Shaka seems to cast a more narrow net or at least he knows when to focus his time elsewhere.  It seemed like we were constantly runner up for players like RJ Davis, Nico Mannion and Quentin Grimes when it may have been better for Wojo to use his time with recruits where we had a more realistic chance.

I don't think the difference you're suggesting actually exists. 

What's the practical difference between Shaka going after Trimble and Bond and Holloman, and Wojo going after Grimes (KU) Manion (Arizona), and Davis (UNC)?   

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What coach do you believe intentionally recruits high rated players that be believes aren't a fit? I imagine every coach believes he can make the players he signs fit. Otherwise, he wouldn't sign that player. And yes, even Wojo. He was bad at making them fit, but I doubt he went after players he didn't think would fit.
The whole thing is a rationalization. As Clarissa correctly notes, the vast majority of high-rated players out there would fit. Shaka isn't doing anything all that unique, guys.

Some coaches are systems coaches that recruit a specific type of player that works well within a specific system. Other coaches recruit the most talented players they can land and then change their system to fit their roster every year. Both methods can be effective (and ineffective). Buzz didn't land a litany of high ranked players, but he was a master at changing his strategy every season to fit the guys he had. Bo Ryan occasionally got high ranked players but they always fit his system and they played the same way almost every year. The best coaches are the ones who can do both.

Fit also refers to how a player fits in off the court. Sometimes, players have handlers or overinvolved family. Sometimes players make it clear that they are there for one year and then are going pro come hell or high water. Sometimes players clearly prioritize their personal stats over team success. Sometimes players just don't mesh personally with the rest of the team. I've met a coach who flat out refuses to recruit any local players because he had bad experiences with past local players who were too focused on their family and friends and not focused enough on the team.  All coaches have varying degrees of comfort with different things. Some are really good at managing handlers or overinvolved parents and are happy to take on talented recruits that come with that baggage. Others don't have time for it and won't deal with those recruits. Neither way is "better" per say, but coaches should know their strengths.

I can tell you that Wojo was 100% happy to look past handlers/overinvolved parents and other players who weren't a fit for one reason or another simply because they were talented. And there's nothing wrong with that, as long as you win, which he didn't. From what I've been told, Shaka tried to do that at Texas, found out that it didn't work for him, and is taking a different approach here. That doesn't mean that he doesn't want highly ranked players, just that they also have to fit the culture. I do also suspect that it also means that we won't see many one and dones targeted. To date, I've only seen Shaka offer one player who is thought to be a one and done and he was rated a lot lower when Shaka offered him and I haven't seen us mentioned since he blew up.

When I wrote about doing nothing unique, I was referring to the system he runs/culture he wants to build/player he wants to coach. Shaka's not doing anything so unique that finding a player to fit is some great challenge.

Did anyone say it was unique?

[Spotcheck Billy]

No he isn't doing anything all that unique, but if you view the recruiting process like a funnel, certain coaches are going to put less names into the top than others depending on the types of players they are looking for.  Is Shaka one of those coaches that starts with less players on the front end?  I have no idea.  But it certainly isn't unheard of for coaches to cast more broad or more narrow nets.

That reads more like putting the players in a meat grinder than in a blender.

[Farley36]

So you can’t point to any quotes which are similar to what was originally referenced.

Not surprising for a fraud like you.

Lol, no I’m not going to waste time going back and researching old recruiting articles when we all know they exist and there have been plenty of recruits that praised Wojo.  If you’re pretending there aren’t, you’re just being disingenuous.   

[panda]

Lol, no I’m not going to waste time going back and researching old recruiting articles when we all know they exist and there have been plenty of recruits that praised Wojo.  If you’re pretending there aren’t, you’re just being disingenuous.

Lol you’re the one pretending. Just making stuff up, getting called out and then saying, “just trust me, they’re out there!”

You’re the biggest clown of all time. Can’t even remotely backup anything you say.

[jesmu84]

Lol you’re the one pretending. Just making stuff up, getting called out and then saying, “just trust me, they’re out there!”

You’re the biggest clown of all time. Can’t even remotely backup anything you say.

I don't know that I agree on anything Farley has posted in the last month.

But I absolutely recall recruiting articles with quotes from wojo recruits praising the team dynamic or plan for development or culture or family or what-have-you.

[The Equalizer]

I mean cmon man -

Aidoo was a Wojo recruit and followed Gainey.

Tamar Bates committed to Shaka at Texas. He didn’t follow Shaka. Joplin, Ellis and Iterje all followed him so I’m not sure what you’re getting at there.

Shaka was late to the game on Bond/Trimble. Not his fault he just got hired a few months before their decisions. In that short amount of time, he ended up on both of their short lists and was seriously considered. Trimble was always a strong UNC lean because of family ties anyways.

In the short amount of time recruiting, he signed the Big 10 defensive player of the year and the A10 freshman of the year.

Find a new slant.

Let's recap:

You give Shaka kudos for not chasing stars.

In response, I point out the numerous stars he chased.

You respond with a list of reasons that he didn't land those stars.  So you apparently recognize that Shaka actually did chase stars.






 

[panda]

Let's recap:

You give Shaka kudos for not chasing stars.

In response, I point out the numerous stars he chased.

You respond with a list of reasons that he didn't land those stars.  So you apparently recognize that Shaka actually did chase stars.

Wojo chased after the highest ranked player regardless of team fit. That was very bad IMO and it showed with disjointed play on the court. 

Shaka is going after players which fit into his system regardless of whether a kid is ranked 35th or 235th. It’s my opinion this is good.

I’ll start charging for this explanation if I have to repeat it for a fourth time in this thread lol.

[panda]

I don't know that I agree on anything Farley has posted in the last month.

But I absolutely recall recruiting articles with quotes from wojo recruits praising the team dynamic or plan for development or culture or family or what-have-you.

Farley can’t back up anything he says and he knows it. Thats my point with him.

He still can’t prove it and he won’t because he’s a coward.

[jesmu84]

Farley can’t back up anything he says and he knows it. Thats my point with him.

He still can’t prove it and he won’t because he’s a coward.

Does that mean you agree with me that those articles/quotes exist?

[panda]

Does that mean you agree with me that those articles/quotes exist?

It means Farley can’t back up his claims.

Don’t waste your time with this.

[Herman Cain]

Wanted to wait till the season was over to respond to the Question of the Opening Post of This Thread. My answer is Yes  for the following reasons:
1. Our Foundation is solid. We have a committed Administration, Our Facilities are Superb and Our Tradition is respectable.
 
2. As was pointed out in the opening post, MU and Nova were essentially in the same place when this version of the  Big East was formed. Nova then went to the next level and we regressed a level. For starters, I believe MU can get back to the level it was at when the Big East started.

3. We have a 13 Year Veteran Coach with 291 career wins, who is 45 with a lot of good years left. He has gotten out of the gates at MU well . T expect we will get a few second weekend runs in the next 5 years  as we upgrade our talent.

4. Our coach has a philosophy and style of play that is repeatable and attractive to quality players.

5. The Big East is a highly competitive and desirable conference to coach in. The roster of recognizable and charismatic coaches in the league continues grow. This makes it possible that our Coach would stay for the 15 years, or so ,necessary to build the winning reputation which is required to recruit the type of players a school can win multiple National Championships with.

I am very enthusiastic about our prospects in 2022-23 , just as I was going into this season.   

[Pakuni]

Farley can’t back up anything he says and he knows it. Thats my point with him.

He still can’t prove it and he won’t because he’s a coward.

If only there were a thing like the internet where you could find these things. Such as ...

“I really like them; that’s the only school I’ve taken an official visit to on my final list. They have a great culture there and they really take care of their players. The staff and the players have a great connection and the students really support the team. That part is really underrated there. That’s a special place.”

https://www.si.com/college/recruiting/basketball/daron-holmes-marquette-arizona-dayton-and-california-montverde-academy-recruiting

“Marquette was the first school to come to an open gym for me and they were also my first high-major offer. In addition, I have a great relationship with Coach DK and Wojo. And with Theo [John] leaving it would be a great fit.”

https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2020/11/16/21570721/marquette-golden-eagles-mens-basketball-recruiting-mac-micawber-etienne-final-four

“Marquette has a great support system; the students really come and support the basketball games. The coaching staff is cool and have a great culture.”

https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2020/9/24/21453688/marquette-golden-eagles-basketball-recruiting-daron-holmes-final-four-arizona-cal-dayton

[jesmu84]

It means Farley can’t back up his claims.

Don’t waste your time with this.

You are being as disingenuous as he is

[panda]

If only there were a thing like the internet where you could find these things. Such as ...

“I really like them; that’s the only school I’ve taken an official visit to on my final list. They have a great culture there and they really take care of their players. The staff and the players have a great connection and the students really support the team. That part is really underrated there. That’s a special place.”

https://www.si.com/college/recruiting/basketball/daron-holmes-marquette-arizona-dayton-and-california-montverde-academy-recruiting

“Marquette was the first school to come to an open gym for me and they were also my first high-major offer. In addition, I have a great relationship with Coach DK and Wojo. And with Theo [John] leaving it would be a great fit.”

https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2020/11/16/21570721/marquette-golden-eagles-mens-basketball-recruiting-mac-micawber-etienne-final-four

“Marquette has a great support system; the students really come and support the basketball games. The coaching staff is cool and have a great culture.”

https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2020/9/24/21453688/marquette-golden-eagles-basketball-recruiting-daron-holmes-final-four-arizona-cal-dayton

Oh you mean the same guy that claims Marquette is closer to DePaul than Villanova without any facts to back it up ? That guy? Or the guy that equates Marquette’s rough stretch this year to the entirety of Wojo’s tenure?

You’re defending the guy who just said this - “I recall all those glowing quotes from 16 year olds about Wojo.   If only praise from 16 year old kids won late and post season games.”

How does that quote make any sense?

I’m calling out a troll for being a troll and you’re defending him. Big yikes.

*this response goes for you too jesmu

[brewcity77]

Agreed.  I didn't see many, if any, players that would not have "fit Shaka's culture" in last night's game.  We can try to find the diamond in the rough kid who works really hard, but Brad Davisons aren't getting you to the first Monday in April.  Burger Boys are.

We recruited RJ Davis. Leaky Black was fringe top-100. Christian Braun and Ochai Agbaji were 3-star recruits. We're trying to find the same formula as those teams last night. Mostly 3/4 stars that you develop then mixing in top talent when you can get it.

[NCMUFan]

bake at 350 F for an hour and voila.

[Pakuni]

Oh you mean the same guy that claims Marquette is closer to DePaul than Villanova without any facts to back it up ? That guy? Or the guy that equates Marquette’s rough stretch this year to the entirety of Wojo’s tenure?

You’re defending the guy who just said this - “I recall all those glowing quotes from 16 year olds about Wojo.   If only praise from 16 year old kids won late and post season games.”

How does that quote make any sense?

I’m calling out a troll for being a troll and you’re defending him. Big yikes.

*this response goes for you too jesmu

I'm not defending anyone.  I'm showing how wrong you were.

[panda]

I'm not defending anyone.  I'm showing how wrong you were.

That’s a really weird way of saying that you’re siding with a troll.

[Pakuni]

That’s a really weird way of saying that you’re siding with a troll.

Dude  ... you said something that was obviously false and dared anyone to prove you wrong.

[panda]

Dude  ... you said something that was obviously false and dared anyone to prove you wrong.

I dared the troll to prove me wrong. You helped the troll. Congrats Farley jr.

[rocky_warrior]

I dared the troll to prove me wrong. You helped the troll. Congrats Farley jr.

I mean, if it's easy for someone "helping a troll", it still means you're wrong.

[lawdog77]

I dared the troll to prove me wrong. You helped the troll. Congrats Farley jr.