Can Marquette be "The Next Villanova"?

[Viper]

If you agree with what rocket said, you either don't understand or choose not to understand.

Assuming you have a degree from Marquette, you could understand if you want to.  Making the conscious choice to not understand means you are condoning the racism.

having or not having a Marquette degree is irrelevant. I do, but irrelevant. Do not question someone you do not know. I’d welcome meeting you and having a conversation. Continued dialogue via a post? No.

[Hards Alumni]

having or not having a Marquette degree is irrelevant. I do, but irrelevant. Do not question someone you do not know. I’d welcome meeting you and having a conversation. Continued dialogue via a post? No.

I'm not sure a one on one meeting is necessary to iron out why 'all lives matter' is inherently problematic.

[NCMUFan]

Would they rename Marquette to Villanova 2 or Villanova Wisconsin or Villanova West?

[Farley36]

Would they rename Marquette to Villanova 2 or Villanova Wisconsin or Villanova West?

We may need to consider DePaul North

[MU82]

2024 MU recruit Kon Knueppel: "I talk to Shaka Smart and Neill Berry a lot. They had an awesome first year with a ton of new guys. Coach Smart loves defense. Their goal per game is to achieve 31 or more deflections and I love the culture they have started to build there."

He apparently didn't get the memo that the first year actually was an unmitigated disaster; he's been brainwashed by the "culture matters" people; and he doesn't even know that the goal is 32 deflections.

After Shakiet gets fired, his replacement should pass on this guy.

[Farley36]

2024 MU recruit Kon Knueppel: "I talk to Shaka Smart and Neill Berry a lot. They had an awesome first year with a ton of new guys. Coach Smart loves defense. Their goal per game is to achieve 31 or more deflections and I love the culture they have started to build there."

He apparently didn't get the memo that the first year actually was an unmitigated disaster; he's been brainwashed by the "culture matters" people; and he doesn't even know that the goal is 32 deflections.

After Shakiet gets fired, his replacement should pass on this guy.

I recall all those glowing quotes from 16 year olds about Wojo.   If only praise from 16 year old kids won late and post season games.

[panda]

I recall all those glowing quotes from 16 year olds about Wojo.   If only praise from 16 year old kids won late and post season games.

Do you ? Who said what ?

[Pakuni]

2024 MU recruit Kon Knueppel: "I talk to Shaka Smart and Neill Berry a lot. They had an awesome first year with a ton of new guys. Coach Smart loves defense. Their goal per game is to achieve 31 or more deflections and I love the culture they have started to build there."

He apparently didn't get the memo that the first year actually was an unmitigated disaster; he's been brainwashed by the "culture matters" people; and he doesn't even know that the goal is 32 deflections.

After Shakiet gets fired, his replacement should pass on this guy.

Top 50 kid. Not sure why Shaka is recruiting him. Won't fit the culture. Going after highly rated kids isn't the right way to build a program.

[Farley36]

Do you ? Who said what ?

These articles come out constantly where recruits say what they like about the coaches recruiting them.   It’s silly to post these as something meaningful.   All that matters are results on the court.  Shaka started strong and limped across the finish line.   Next year likely won’t be a step forward.

[panda]

These articles come out constantly where recruits say what they like about the coaches recruiting them.   It’s silly to post these as something meaningful.   All that matters are results on the court.  Shaka started strong and limped across the finish line.   Next year likely won’t be a step forward.

So you can’t point to any quotes which are similar to what was originally referenced.

Not surprising for a fraud like you.

[The Equalizer]

Top 50 kid. Not sure why Shaka is recruiting him. Won't fit the culture. Going after highly rated kids isn't the right way to build a program.

In all seriousness, as you've previously pointed out, Shaka has gone after highly ranked players (Aidoo, Bond, Bates, Trimble, Casey, etc.).  He's simply lost out on them.

The frustration here is that people are waving off those recruiting misses by saying that Shaka is trying to "build culture" and pretending that the guys he landed were the type of players he wanted all along. 

[NCMUFan]

Need to see result on court.
If Shaka can keep us in the upper half of the Big East and get us a NCAA tourney win, good and better things will happen.  Like getting higher ranked recruits.  Good feeds off of good.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

In all seriousness, as you've previously pointed out, Shaka has gone after highly ranked players (Aidoo, Bond, Bates, Trimble, Casey, etc.).  He's simply lost out on them.

The frustration here is that people are waving off those recruiting misses by saying that Shaka is trying to "build culture" and pretending that the guys he landed were the type of players he wanted all along.

No one has said anything like you or Pakuni are suggesting

[Pakuni]

No one has said anything like you or Pakuni are suggesting

Well, I wrote in teal for a reason.
That said, these posts appeared in the recruiting thread in recent days:

"Wow - Seen a lot of clowns worried about Shaka's recruiting. Kudos for him for not chasing stars and committing to a certain type of player and winning those battles. He's building in the right way."

"Since when do we expect stars to come to Marquette?  That's not who we are, nor do we need to be."

I'll go find other examples if you really like, but Equalizer is 100 percent correct. There's been an underlining defense from some here that paints the lack of highly rated recruits so far as some kind of master plan to do it "the right way," whatever that means. Apparently all those coaches chasing 4- and 5-star kids are playing checkers while Shaka's playing chess.

I haven't been critical of Shaka's recruiting to date because it's only one year and he deserves time to get things rolling. But if we want a team that's going to consistently matter in March, he's going to have to land some top 100 talent. And he knows it, which is why he's recruiting top 100 kids.
Why this is even debatable confuses me. When we lost out on a highly rated recruit 18 months ago, it was "green weenie" time. Now it's "who cares?"

[panda]

Well, I wrote in teal for a reason.
That said, these posts appeared in the recruiting thread in recent days:

"Wow - Seen a lot of clowns worried about Shaka's recruiting. Kudos for him for not chasing stars and committing to a certain type of player and winning those battles. He's building in the right way."

"Since when do we expect stars to come to Marquette?  That's not who we are, nor do we need to be."

I'll go find other examples if you really like, but Equalizer is 100 percent correct. There's been an underlining defense from some here that paints the lack of highly rated recruits so far as some kind of master plan to do it "the right way," whatever that means. Apparently all those coaches chasing 4- and 5-star kids are playing checkers while Shaka's playing chess.

I haven't been critical of Shaka's recruiting to date because it's only one year and he deserves time to get things rolling. But if we want a team that's going to consistently matter in March, he's going to have to land some top 100 talent. And he knows it, which is why he's recruiting top 100 kids.
Why this is even debatable confuses me. When we lost out on a highly rated recruit 18 months ago, it was "green weenie" time. Now it's "who cares?"

I said something along the lines of - “kudos for him for not chasing stars”

Shaka is recruiting to fit his philosophy. If a player that fits his structure is ranked highly, great! I hope we sign him.

Wojo’s recruiting strategy was along the lines of, hey this highly ranked guy is interested. Let’s get him! That lack of direction in recruiting led to some of the most poorly assembled teams I’ve ever seen.

Shaka is recruiting with a team oriented purpose and not going after individual talent hoping it all works out.

[MU82]

Well, I wrote in teal for a reason.
That said, these posts appeared in the recruiting thread in recent days:

"Wow - Seen a lot of clowns worried about Shaka's recruiting. Kudos for him for not chasing stars and committing to a certain type of player and winning those battles. He's building in the right way."

"Since when do we expect stars to come to Marquette?  That's not who we are, nor do we need to be."

I'll go find other examples if you really like, but Equalizer is 100 percent correct. There's been an underlining defense from some here that paints the lack of highly rated recruits so far as some kind of master plan to do it "the right way," whatever that means. Apparently all those coaches chasing 4- and 5-star kids are playing checkers while Shaka's playing chess.

I haven't been critical of Shaka's recruiting to date because it's only one year and he deserves time to get things rolling. But if we want a team that's going to consistently matter in March, he's going to have to land some top 100 talent. And he knows it, which is why he's recruiting top 100 kids.
Why this is even debatable confuses me. When we lost out on a highly rated recruit 18 months ago, it was "green weenie" time. Now it's "who cares?"

There's nuance, of course, but it's pretty hard to disagree with what you're saying here.

Every great team has outstanding players who buy into a system/philosophy/culture (whatever one wants to call it). We all have seen that, outside the top 50, rankings tell an incomplete story. Even many in the top 50 either take significant time to develop (Vander) or never live up to the hype (Joey).

But you need great players - period - and I want Shaka to get as many as he can.

He's been a head coach for a long time now, and I assume that he has a pretty good handle on which great players will fit his culture, whether they are HS recruits or transfers.

He's being paid a lot of money to get them to Marquette, and then to retain them through free agency. Like you, I think it's realistic to be patient for a couple of years. We'll see what the program looks like a year from now.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I think the venn diagram of "Players who fit Shaka's Culture" and "Players who are ranked in the top 100" overlap at least 75%.

[wadesworld]

I think the venn diagram of "Players who fit Shaka's Culture" and "Players who are ranked in the top 100" overlap at least 75%.

Agreed.  I didn't see many, if any, players that would not have "fit Shaka's culture" in last night's game.  We can try to find the diamond in the rough kid who works really hard, but Brad Davisons aren't getting you to the first Monday in April.  Burger Boys are.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Well, I wrote in teal for a reason.
That said, these posts appeared in the recruiting thread in recent days:

"Wow - Seen a lot of clowns worried about Shaka's recruiting. Kudos for him for not chasing stars and committing to a certain type of player and winning those battles. He's building in the right way."

"Since when do we expect stars to come to Marquette?  That's not who we are, nor do we need to be."

I'll go find other examples if you really like, but Equalizer is 100 percent correct. There's been an underlining defense from some here that paints the lack of highly rated recruits so far as some kind of master plan to do it "the right way," whatever that means. Apparently all those coaches chasing 4- and 5-star kids are playing checkers while Shaka's playing chess.

I haven't been critical of Shaka's recruiting to date because it's only one year and he deserves time to get things rolling. But if we want a team that's going to consistently matter in March, he's going to have to land some top 100 talent. And he knows it, which is why he's recruiting top 100 kids.
Why this is even debatable confuses me. When we lost out on a highly rated recruit 18 months ago, it was "green weenie" time. Now it's "who cares?"

I didn't read that way at all and as the author Panda explains, he didn't mean it that way at all. Again, no one is saying we shouldn't recruit high rated players but they are saying that we shouldn't recruit high rated players that aren't a fit just because they are high rated.

[The Equalizer]

I said something along the lines of - “kudos for him for not chasing stars”

Shaka is recruiting to fit his philosophy. If a player that fits his structure is ranked highly, great! I hope we sign him.

Wojo’s recruiting strategy was along the lines of, hey this highly ranked guy is interested. Let’s get him! That lack of direction in recruiting led to some of the most poorly assembled teams I’ve ever seen.

Shaka is recruiting with a team oriented purpose and not going after individual talent hoping it all works out.

This is a great example of exactly what I'm talking about. 

Right after I named the specific stars that Shaka chased and missed (Aidoo, Bates, Bond, Trimble, Casey), you follow up with your belief that Shaka deserves kudos for not chasing stars!
 
Did you really not realize that Shaka "chased stars" before signing the players he did?  Or are you simply making up a more positive-sounding narrative to fit what actually happened?

 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I would also say that there are a couple of ways that Shaka's recruiting differs from Wojo's.  These are just opinions and not backed with any sort of inside knowledge.

1. Shaka does recruit to his system.  I think the statement that Wojo was recruiting individual talent and hoping it all worked is somewhat accurate.

2. I think Shaka seems to cast a more narrow net or at least he knows when to focus his time elsewhere.  It seemed like we were constantly runner up for players like RJ Davis, Nico Mannion and Quentin Grimes when it may have been better for Wojo to use his time with recruits where we had a more realistic chance.

[Pakuni]

I didn't read that way at all and as the author Panda explains, he didn't mean it that way at all. Again, no one is saying we shouldn't recruit high rated players but they are saying that we shouldn't recruit high rated players that aren't a fit just because they are high rated.

What coach do you believe intentionally recruits high rated players that be believes aren't a fit? I imagine every coach believes he can make the players he signs fit. Otherwise, he wouldn't sign that player. And yes, even Wojo. He was bad at making them fit, but I doubt he went after players he didn't think would fit.
The whole thing is a rationalization. As Clarissa correctly notes, the vast majority of high-rated players out there would fit. Shaka isn't doing anything all that unique, guys.

 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

What coach do you believe intentionally recruits high rated players that be believes aren't a fit? I imagine every coach believes he can make the players he signs fit. Otherwise, he wouldn't sign that player. And yes, even Wojo. He was bad at making them fit, but I doubt he went after players he didn't think would fit. The whole thing is a rationalization. As Clarissa correctly notes, the vast majority of high-rated players out there would fit. Shaka isn't doing anything all that unique, guys.

No he isn't doing anything all that unique, but if you view the recruiting process like a funnel, certain coaches are going to put less names into the top than others depending on the types of players they are looking for.  Is Shaka one of those coaches that starts with less players on the front end?  I have no idea.  But it certainly isn't unheard of for coaches to cast more broad or more narrow nets.

[panda]

This is a great example of exactly what I'm talking about. 

Right after I named the specific stars that Shaka chased and missed (Aidoo, Bates, Bond, Trimble, Casey), you follow up with your belief that Shaka deserves kudos for not chasing stars!
 
Did you really not realize that Shaka "chased stars" before signing the players he did?  Or are you simply making up a more positive-sounding narrative to fit what actually happened?

I mean cmon man -

Aidoo was a Wojo recruit and followed Gainey.

Tamar Bates committed to Shaka at Texas. He didn’t follow Shaka. Joplin, Ellis and Iterje all followed him so I’m not sure what you’re getting at there.

Shaka was late to the game on Bond/Trimble. Not his fault he just got hired a few months before their decisions. In that short amount of time, he ended up on both of their short lists and was seriously considered. Trimble was always a strong UNC lean because of family ties anyways.

In the short amount of time recruiting, he signed the Big 10 defensive player of the year and the A10 freshman of the year.

Find a new slant.

[rocky_warrior]

Is Shaka one of those coaches that starts with less players on the front end?  I have no idea.  But it certainly isn't unheard of for coaches to cast more broad or more narrow nets.

Based on "in the transfer portal, has heard from Marquette" - it seems Shaka has one of the biggest nets out there!