Can Marquette be "The Next Villanova"?

[MU82]

A discussion started in the Big East Polls thread that didn't really belong there but that I thought was interesting enough to merit its own thread.

In know we've had similar topics like this before, but none very recently, at least not that I can remember since Shaka took the MU job.

I would be thrilled beyond belief if Shaka could turn MU into the next Villanova!  We have just as many resources. Why not?

Lol come on.

BLM's reaction seemed a little too dismissive to me. Is it really that farfetched?

It wasn't all that long ago that the programs at Nova and MU were basically at the same level. It doesn't even take a very big leap to argue that our program was ahead of theirs less than a decade ago.

In 2007, Nova finished 9th in the Big East -- 3 spots behind Marquette. In 2008, they were 8th, two spots behind MU. In 2009, they finished 4th, one spot ahead of MU; they made a run to the Final Four as a 3 seed and were crushed by UNC; it was similar to our FF run in 2003. In 2010, they finished 4th, one spot ahead of MU; In 2011, they finished in a tie for 9th with us and UConn; in 2012, they finished 13th with a losing record, 11 spots behind Marquette. In 2013, they finished 7th, 6 spots behind co-champion Marquette.

Between 2001-02, Jay Wright's first season, and 2012-13, his 12th season, Nova:

++ Got to the Final Four once (2009).
++ Got to the Elite Eight once (2006).
++ Got to the Sweet 16 twice (2005, 2008).
++ Got to the Round of 32 once (2010).
++ Lost in the first round 3 times (2007, 2011, 2013).
++ Missed the tournament 4 times (2002, 2003, 2004, 2012).
++ Won 1 Big East regular-season title (2006).

That's remarkably similar to Marquette's accomplishments under Crean and Buzz during that span -- 1 FF, 1 EE, 2 S16s, 1 Big East title, to go with a bunch of first- and 2nd-round losses.

In 2013, if you had asked which program was on a better trajectory, I think most objective observers would have picked Marquette -- coming off a S16-S16-E8 run and a BE title vs. Nova, coming off 2 first-round losses and a 13th-place finish. There even were murmurs among Nova's fan base that maybe Wright wasn't up to the task.

After that, we had the Buzz fiasco and the Wojo Error; Wright, meanwhile, found the right combination of athletes, established the right culture, and started winning big. (Even that took a little time, as disappointing early-round exits following BE titles in 2014 and 2015 before they won the 2016 national championship and officially became "NOVA!")

So is it that outrageous to think that Marquette could find similar success? We do have great resources, a great tradition, a great arena, and now a popular and respected coach.

[PGsHeroes32]

Obviously the two natties will be extremely hard to replicate any time soon.

But tourney year in and year out? Success in the tourney more often than not? High seeds in the tourney regular? Routinely at the top as the consistent challenge to Nova in the BE??

I honestly do not see why not.

We definitely under Shaka should be the type of program that can win a BE title over Nova any given year. We obviously will never completely toss them to the side but can the BE start to look more like a 5 year window of

Nova two BE titles, MU two BE, someone else? Yes.

Honestly only Uconn and maybe Gtown(if they ever find a coach) should be able to routinely contend.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

That's a pretty lofty goal. Unlikely but not impossible, IMO.

What I do think is that is Shaka can continue to build the program, find some consistent success in March, and is happy enough to make Marquette his long-term home we could really see the program reach heights we haven't seen in a long time. A lot of "if's" there but i think it's realistic.

[Galway Eagle]

Yes but every program in the big east is likely thinking the same thing

[IrwinFletcher]

Many programs in the country think they can achieve this level of success.

Marquette commits the resources, but at the end of the day, you have to have THAT Coach who can do it and wants to stay.

Crean and Buzz had a ton of success and maybe they could have done it had they not left.  We shall see if Shaka can do it.

[Viper]

A discussion started in the Big East Polls thread that didn't really belong there but that I thought was interesting enough to merit its own thread.

In know we've had similar topics like this before, but none very recently, at least not that I can remember since Shaka took the MU job.

BLM's reaction seemed a little too dismissive to me. Is it really that farfetched?

It wasn't all that long ago that the programs at Nova and MU were basically at the same level. It doesn't even take a very big leap to argue that our program was ahead of theirs less than a decade ago.

In 2007, Nova finished 9th in the Big East -- 3 spots behind Marquette. In 2008, they were 8th, two spots behind MU. In 2009, they finished 4th, one spot ahead of MU; they made a run to the Final Four as a 3 seed and were crushed by UNC; it was similar to our FF run in 2003. In 2010, they finished 4th, one spot ahead of MU; In 2011, they finished in a tie for 9th with us and UConn; in 2012, they finished 13th with a losing record, 11 spots behind Marquette. In 2013, they finished 7th, 6 spots behind co-champion Marquette.

Between 2001-02, Jay Wright's first season, and 2012-13, his 12th season, Nova:

++ Got to the Final Four once (2009).
++ Got to the Elite Eight once (2006).
++ Got to the Sweet 16 twice (2005, 2008).
++ Got to the Round of 32 once (2010).
++ Lost in the first round 3 times (2007, 2011, 2013).
++ Missed the tournament 4 times (2002, 2003, 2004, 2012).
++ Won 1 Big East regular-season title (2006).

That's remarkably similar to Marquette's accomplishments under Crean and Buzz during that span -- 1 FF, 1 EE, 2 S16s, 1 Big East title, to go with a bunch of first- and 2nd-round losses.

In 2013, if you had asked which program was on a better trajectory, I think most objective observers would have picked Marquette -- coming off a S16-S16-E8 run and a BE title vs. Nova, coming off 2 first-round losses and a 13th-place finish. There even were murmurs among Nova's fan base that maybe Wright wasn't up to the task.

After that, we had the Buzz fiasco and the Wojo Error; Wright, meanwhile, found the right combination of athletes, established the right culture, and started winning big. (Even that took a little time, as disappointing early-round exits following BE titles in 2014 and 2015 before they won the 2016 national championship and officially became "NOVA!")

So is it that outrageous to think that Marquette could find similar success? We do have great resources, a great tradition, a great arena, and now a popular and respected coach.

I know you know where I stand. Emphatically YES!!

[BCHoopster]

Right now, next year could be a down year as I do not see a go to scorer if Lewis leaves.  Morsell and Kurth as well.
Mainly there defense.  It will be interesting the next month about bringing in new players with experience as Shaka has brought an exciting style of play to MU.

[wadesworld]

Yes, very far fetched, to put it lightly.

[MU82]

Yes, very far fetched, to put it lightly.

Well, being outstanding year after year is always a challenge for any program. Either you're trying to get there, or you're trying to stay there.

But ...

Was it farfetched that Villanova would go from 13th place in the Big East in 2012 (and many other disappointing finishes in the years around that) to what they have become a decade later?

Is it farfetched that Shaka Smart could be our Jay Wright?

Maybe it is ... though somebody's gonna rise up and challenge them. Not sure why that can't be us.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

No.

But I’ll hit take dancing most every year and I think Shaka can do that. Once you get there, you never know.

[BCHoopster]

Conference will have some turnover next year at the top, so no reason MU can not be in the Top 5 if they can pick up a couple of transfers.

[Uncle Rico]

I’d rather be the next UConn

[PointWarrior]

We beat Villanova twice and lost to Creighton twice - why would we not set our sights on being the next Creighton?

I’d rather be the next UConn

[mu_hilltopper]

If we're looking local, it'd be nice if MU could be the next UW.

19 consecutive NCAA tournaments.  In the last decade, Badger fans have watched their team play a whopping 28 games, winning 18 of them.

Man, I hate them so much.

[brewcity77]

Considering how close Villanova was to not being the next Villanova, yes, we certainly could. After 2012, the 9-seed followed by losing record despite Jay's best on paper recruiting had some fans thinking it was time to move on. It was Jay's second losing season at Villanova. No Marquette coach since before the days of Al survived two losing seasons, even with a gap in between like Wojo or Wright had. They stuck with him, he way overachieved in 2013-14 and kept it up since.

The odds of us becoming Villanova under Shaka are probably about as good as the odds Nova had of becoming Villanova under Jay Wright when the league reformed.

[wadesworld]

Would love to be wrong. But I’d put my life savings and take out multiple loans and put it all on MU never going a consecutive decade of being the best college basketball program in the country.

[BrewCity83]

Being the next Villanova is and has been MU's basketball goal for the past 7-8 years or so.  Although it will take some luck, there's no reason we can't get there.  We have the resources. the commitment from the higher-ups, the best basketball arena in the world for our home games, and now, finally, it looks like we may have a coach who has the recruiting and coaching chops and the potential desire to make this his last job.

I'm not betting the farm that we get there, but it's not an unrealistic goal.

[Scoop Snoop]

The short answer is yes. Let's revisit this near the end of next season. I think we are getting way too far ahead of ourselves, and it will take at least three seasons before we can see if we are on track to become the next Villanova.

[MU82]

Considering how close Villanova was to not being the next Villanova, yes, we certainly could. After 2012, the 9-seed followed by losing record despite Jay's best on paper recruiting had some fans thinking it was time to move on. It was Jay's second losing season at Villanova. No Marquette coach since before the days of Al survived two losing seasons, even with a gap in between like Wojo or Wright had. They stuck with him, he way overachieved in 2013-14 and kept it up since.

The odds of us becoming Villanova under Shaka are probably about as good as the odds Nova had of becoming Villanova under Jay Wright when the league reformed.

Excellent pot, especially your last paragraph. There is not a single honest basketball observer who would have looked at Nova in 2012 and said, "You know, within a few years, that's gonna be the best program in the Big East and in the argument for best in America."

Would love to be wrong. But I’d put my life savings and take out multiple loans and put it all on MU never going a consecutive decade of being the best college basketball program in the country.

Nobody is saying the odds favor us being the best anything. But again, in 2012 you almost surely would have put your life savings against Nova being the best basketball program in the country. All I'm saying is that it's worth striving for.

The short answer is yes. Let's revisit this near the end of next season. I think we are getting way too far ahead of ourselves, and it will take at least three seasons before we can see if we are on track to become the next Villanova.

I'm not getting ahead of anything. It's a fan site. We're discussing something. We have no influence on anything.

[Newsdreams]

Excellent pot, especially your last paragraph. There is not a single honest basketball observer who would have looked at Nova in 2012 and said, "You know, within a few years, that's gonna be the best program in the Big East and in the argument for best in America."

Nobody is saying the odds favor us being the best anything. But again, in 2012 you almost surely would have put your life savings against Nova being the best basketball program in the country. All I'm saying is that it's worth striving for.

I'm not getting ahead of anything. It's a fan site. We're discussing something. We have no influence on anything.

Can I have some?

[Scoop Snoop]

Excellent pot, especially your last paragraph. There is not a single honest basketball observer who would have looked at Nova in 2012 and said, "You know, within a few years, that's gonna be the best program in the Big East and in the argument for best in America."

Nobody is saying the odds favor us being the best anything. But again, in 2012 you almost surely would have put your life savings against Nova being the best basketball program in the country. All I'm saying is that it's worth striving for.

I'm not getting ahead of anything. It's a fan site. We're discussing something. We have no influence on anything.

What? You gotta be kidding me! If that's true, well...it ruins everything! 

[MU82]

Can I have some?

Darn fingers. They don't work well when I'm high.

[Newsdreams]

Darn fingers. They don't work well when I'm high.

[Daniel]

With the right coach, yes.   Marquette’s investment in basketball is tremendous.   The resources are there.  So, yes.  With the right coach Marquette can do it.    And Shaka might just be the right coach. 

[Shooter McGavin]

Yes.  MU can do it.  It’s all coaching dependent.  The rabid fan base is there.  The resources are there.  The conference is there.  The TV deal is there and should continue to be there.  The Big East tournament is there at MSG. 

MU checks all the boxes.  If we have the right coach it can happen. 

Buzz could have done it if he stayed.  Hell, if Brad Stevens had stayed at Butler it could have happened for them.

Get the right coach long term and Voila we’re Villanova.

Hopefully Shaka is that coach.  We will find out.