Thoughts and prayers for Oxford, Mi.

[forgetful]

I should check out that sale.

Dad will be held liable, as he should be. Is a safe that hard to get? My dad's safe is freaking impenetrable and only he knows the combo. My buddy's safe has two locks, one a fingerprint lock and another a key lock that has a delay in opening. Reports are the kid was bullied. He likely had mental problems too. If it wasn't a gun he would have done something else.

As far as I'm aware, Michigan has no laws regarding limiting access of guns to minors, and does not have any laws allowing individuals to be held liable if a weapon is used to commit a crime and was even negligently stored.

So highly unlikely the family will be held liable, it would require a break from Michigan laws.

[JWags85]

Yes, there are rampant mass stabbings in high schools.

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819580358

I was in Europe the past week, and saw an article talking about the startling rise in stabbing homicides in the UK this past year, specifically among teens in London.

Then I read further, and the sheer number difference is startling.

https://inews.co.uk/news/teenager-homicides-2021-28-victims-worst-year-for-such-killings-since-2008-1323812

[Galway Eagle]

If it wasn't a gun he would have done something else.

Yes usually the socially awkward easily bullied kid is able to overpower adults and varsity lettermen when they have a handheld weapon, also easily able to stab them in the back when they run away.

[Galway Eagle]

Kid's name was Ethan Crumbley do your own search but pretty sure all the social media accounts are down already.

[GB Warrior]

We're not a serious country.

[Jockey]

From the AP:

The boy's father on Friday bought the 9 mm Sig Sauer used in the shooting, Oakland County Sheriff Michael Bouchard said. He didn't know why the man bought the semi-automatic handgun, which his son had been posting pictures of and practicing shooting, Bouchard said.

At least daddy got the gun on sale, so there's that.

Now we know why this wonderful dad is refusing to cooperate with the police.

[CountryRoads]

Now we know why this wonderful dad is refusing to cooperate with the police.

Dad buys a gun on Friday and his son uses the gun to shoot up a school the very next school day. An inconceivable level of negligence. Imo, the blood is just as much on the dad's hands as it is the kid's.

[Jay Bee]

Dad buys a gun on Friday and his son uses the gun to shoot up a school the very next school day. An inconceivable level of negligence. Imo, the blood is just as much on the dad's hands as it is the kid's.

So the shooting occurred on Saturday?!

#FakeNews #Lies

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I was in Europe the past week, and saw an article talking about the startling rise in stabbing homicides in the UK this past year, specifically among teens in London.

Then I read further, and the sheer number difference is startling.

https://inews.co.uk/news/teenager-homicides-2021-28-victims-worst-year-for-such-killings-since-2008-1323812

Unfortunately, 28 a year doesn't phase me after the growing up in the USA

[Galway Eagle]

So the shooting occurred on Saturday?!

#FakeNews #Lies

I'm guessing you misread his post... he clearly said school day. A classy person wouldn't then call you a liar for an innocent mistake so I won't despite the obvious irony.

[Jay Bee]

I'm guessing you misread his post... he clearly said school day. A classy person wouldn't then call you a liar for an innocent mistake so I won't despite the obvious irony.

You fell into the trap!

I do wonder, though, how a jump to conclusion that inconceivable negligence/ blood on hands exists based on known (unknown) information.

[Galway Eagle]

You fell into the trap!

I do wonder, though, how a jump to conclusion that inconceivable negligence/ blood on hands exists based on known (unknown) information.

Oh no I'm trapped by the oh so clever JB someone help me! Seriously what trap? He said school day, you said Saturday, you called him liar. There's no "trap" except you misreading his post.

[JWags85]

Unfortunately, 28 a year doesn't phase me after the growing up in the USA

Thats sort of what I meant.  Its a legitimately troubling number, but pales in comparison to gun deaths in the US and any major metro.

[tower912]

A fourth student has died.

[MU82]

I should check out that sale.

Dad will be held liable, as he should be. Is a safe that hard to get? My dad's safe is freaking impenetrable and only he knows the combo. My buddy's safe has two locks, one a fingerprint lock and another a key lock that has a delay in opening. Reports are the kid was bullied. He likely had mental problems too. If it wasn't a gun he would have done something else.

Wow ... we almost agreed on a serious issue ... until your last line.

I'm sure that if he didn't have high-powered weaponry that could fire 1,000 rounds in minutes, the Vegas shooter would have nunchucked or stabbed or suffocated dozens of people to death back in 2017, too.

But yes, this kid's dad has blood on his hands.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

We had a kid get arrested with a gun at our high school a few weeks ago.  He was more of a gang member with a gun than psycho killer with a gun to shoot up a school, but still had a .40 cal in his waistband.

The sad thing is that my wife and I both said that it didn't really faze us, which is a scary level of desensitization.   (The eldest son is a freshman.)

[tower912]

My own freshman son sighed and shook his head.  We reiterated that if you see something say something.   He reminded us he stays off social media for this exact reason.

[tower912]

The shooter will be charged as an adult.

[dgies9156]

Some thoughts (warning: some are political):

1) Until we find a way to better control handguns and automatic weapons, these kinds of incidents will become all too familiar parts of American Life. I get the need for hunting and for protection, but the gun culture in this country is out of control. Way too many guns that don't belong in circulation are in way too many hands belonging to people who shouldn't have 'em. We need to something and we need to begin with no more stand your ground and concealed carry (and, hint, I'm a moderate conservative -- some would call it a realist).

2) Yes teachers, yes parents, yes school administrators, BULLYING HAPPENS! You can't ignore it and hope it goes away. Nor can you do what our school district did -- create a victims class to teach victims to be good victims (which means, not incidentally, not fighting back or creating headaches for lazy and incompetent teachers). Many of the bullies in schools are sons and daughters of prominent citizens and the victims tend to come from less prestigious social classes. There's no excuse for killing and wounding people but if you ignore a problem long enough, crap like this is going to happen. And for all you teachers out there who think I'm nuts, maybe you are lucky but more than likely you're ignorant of the problem.*

3) We need to catch psychological problems in our schools early. You who spend seven to eight hours a day with our youth in school can't tell me you can't spot some folks who need help. If you can't, then guess what, you need help!


* Full Disclosure -- One of my children was bullied badly. That child fired back and wouldn't take it. When some of the popular children started a whispering campaign about my child's sexuality, the administration dismissed it and said, "oh they all talk that way." My response: "If national statistics are to be believed, up to 10 percent of your student body is homosexual. And, the leading cause of death among gay and lesbian teens is suicide. Do you want that on your conscious?" Also, while they tended to laugh off my child's concerns, the Administration of  the school was far less willing to do so when the students began spreading rumors about the teachers.!

[NCMUFan]

Some thoughts (warning: some are political):

1) Until we find a way to better control handguns and automatic weapons, these kinds of incidents will become all too familiar parts of American Life. I get the need for hunting and for protection, but the gun culture in this country is out of control. Way too many guns that don't belong in circulation are in way too many hands belonging to people who shouldn't have 'em. We need to something and we need to begin with no more stand your ground and concealed carry (and, hint, I'm a moderate conservative -- some would call it a realist).

I am curious why the opposition to legal concealed carry?  In the NC county I live, you need to take a class and then pass it, have your background checked by the Sheriff department for criminal and psychological record and get fingerprinted at the Sheriff's office.  Also, the concealed carry expires in either 4 or 5 years and you must renew through the Sheriff's office. 

[Uncle Rico]

Some thoughts (warning: some are political):

1) Until we find a way to better control handguns and automatic weapons, these kinds of incidents will become all too familiar parts of American Life. I get the need for hunting and for protection, but the gun culture in this country is out of control. Way too many guns that don't belong in circulation are in way too many hands belonging to people who shouldn't have 'em. We need to something and we need to begin with no more stand your ground and concealed carry (and, hint, I'm a moderate conservative -- some would call it a realist).

2) Yes teachers, yes parents, yes school administrators, BULLYING HAPPENS! You can't ignore it and hope it goes away. Nor can you do what our school district did -- create a victims class to teach victims to be good victims (which means, not incidentally, not fighting back or creating headaches for lazy and incompetent teachers). Many of the bullies in schools are sons and daughters of prominent citizens and the victims tend to come from less prestigious social classes. There's no excuse for killing and wounding people but if you ignore a problem long enough, crap like this is going to happen. And for all you teachers out there who think I'm nuts, maybe you are lucky but more than likely you're ignorant of the problem.*

3) We need to catch psychological problems in our schools early. You who spend seven to eight hours a day with our youth in school can't tell me you can't spot some folks who need help. If you can't, then guess what, you need help!


* Full Disclosure -- One of my children was bullied badly. That child fired back and wouldn't take it. When some of the popular children started a whispering campaign about my child's sexuality, the administration dismissed it and said, "oh they all talk that way." My response: "If national statistics are to be believed, up to 10 percent of your student body is homosexual. And, the leading cause of death among gay and lesbian teens is suicide. Do you want that on your conscious?" Also, while they tended to laugh off my child's concerns, the Administration of  the school was far less willing to do so when the students began spreading rumors about the teachers.!

This is a well-thought post and has no place in the discussion.

Agree on the gun culture of this country.  My parents and sister and brother-in-law are gun nuts.  My dad has so many guns, I ought to make a small fortune selling them after he passes.

The bullying epidemic isn't handled well by school administrators.  Having once been married to a teacher, it was appalling how administrators were more concerned with optics and protecting certain kids.  It's a real issue inside schools

[tower912]

Watching the arraignment live.   In recess now.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Some thoughts (warning: some are political):

1) Until we find a way to better control handguns and automatic weapons, these kinds of incidents will become all too familiar parts of American Life. I get the need for hunting and for protection, but the gun culture in this country is out of control. Way too many guns that don't belong in circulation are in way too many hands belonging to people who shouldn't have 'em. We need to something and we need to begin with no more stand your ground and concealed carry (and, hint, I'm a moderate conservative -- some would call it a realist).

2) Yes teachers, yes parents, yes school administrators, BULLYING HAPPENS! You can't ignore it and hope it goes away. Nor can you do what our school district did -- create a victims class to teach victims to be good victims (which means, not incidentally, not fighting back or creating headaches for lazy and incompetent teachers). Many of the bullies in schools are sons and daughters of prominent citizens and the victims tend to come from less prestigious social classes. There's no excuse for killing and wounding people but if you ignore a problem long enough, crap like this is going to happen. And for all you teachers out there who think I'm nuts, maybe you are lucky but more than likely you're ignorant of the problem.*

3) We need to catch psychological problems in our schools early. You who spend seven to eight hours a day with our youth in school can't tell me you can't spot some folks who need help. If you can't, then guess what, you need help!


* Full Disclosure -- One of my children was bullied badly. That child fired back and wouldn't take it. When some of the popular children started a whispering campaign about my child's sexuality, the administration dismissed it and said, "oh they all talk that way." My response: "If national statistics are to be believed, up to 10 percent of your student body is homosexual. And, the leading cause of death among gay and lesbian teens is suicide. Do you want that on your conscious?" Also, while they tended to laugh off my child's concerns, the Administration of  the school was far less willing to do so when the students began spreading rumors about the teachers.!

Amen on the bullying.  Way too much of that, and the school admins do very little.

[Billy Hoyle]

As far as I'm aware, Michigan has no laws regarding limiting access of guns to minors, and does not have any laws allowing individuals to be held liable if a weapon is used to commit a crime and was even negligently stored.

So highly unlikely the family will be held liable, it would require a break from Michigan laws.

the prosecutor said she is exploring charges for both parents. The Instagram post seems to insinuate dad may have bought the weapon for the kid.

This definitely looks like a kid who was the victim of bullying in a town like Oxford.

https://nypost.com/2021/12/01/michigan-school-shooting-suspect-identified-as-ethan-crumbley/

[tower912]

Amen on bullying.