Thoughts and prayers for Oxford, Mi.

[tower912]

Here is the problem with trying to find the school negligent.  They followed their procedures.  They saw something, they said something.   They tried to get the parents to take him and get him into counseling.   The parents refused.   

What exactly were the options at that point?   Expel him into whose custody?  The parents had refused him and told them to return him to class.  Ignore the parents' wishes?  Toss him for thoughts?   That is quite the can of worms.   At 12:50, he was still just a troubled kid.   

[MU82]

Dems control both houses and the presidency. They could pass this if they wanted to.

You are smart enough to know that's not true. It would be filibustered so it couldn't pass without the support of 60 senators, meaning at least 10 Republicans would have to sign on. It's not a budget issue, so it couldn't pass through reconciliation.

One way to make it possible to save the lives we all claim are precious would be to vote out congresspeople who oppose common-sense laws that would protect our kids and grandkids. If there are Dems who oppose such legislation, they should be voted out, too.

[MuggsyB]

Here is the problem with trying to find the school negligent.  They followed their procedures.  They saw something, they said something.   They tried to get the parents to take him and get him into counseling.   The parents refused.   

What exactly were the options at that point?   Expel him into whose custody?  The parents had refused him and told them to return him to class.  Ignore the parents' wishes?  Toss him for thoughts?   That is quite the can of worms.   At 12:50, he was still just a troubled kid.

Maybe it's an example of why at least one police officer should. be present at our public schools?  Could they not have asked his parents to check his backpack and locker?

[MuggsyB]

No, but when he has demonstrated he is a danger to himself or others, they can contact authorities to deal with it immediately. They can also search his bag. Or, have him spend the rest of the day with a counselor and a student safety officer, where they can monitor his safety and well being.

The, oh the parents don't want to take him home, so just have him go back to class without any checking for weapons/other threats etc., may be gross negligence.

Note, this isn't on the teacher. It appears the teacher did what they were supposed to by documenting the threat and immediately passing it along to the people responsible for handling the situation.

Ya....this is basically where I'm at as well.

[Boozemon Barro]

You are smart enough to know that's not true. It would be filibustered so it couldn't pass without the support of 60 senators, meaning at least 10 Republicans would have to sign on. It's not a budget issue, so it couldn't pass through reconciliation.

One way to make it possible to save the lives we all claim are precious would be to vote out congresspeople who oppose common-sense laws that would protect our kids and grandkids. If there are Dems who oppose such legislation, they should be voted out, too.

It had bi-partisan support in CT when it passed, but the threat of a Republican filibuster is what killed it in committee? I highly doubt that.

[Galway Eagle]

Maybe it's an example of why at least one police officer should. be present at our public schools?  Could they not have asked his parents to check his backpack and locker?

We always did. Sometimes 2, one from each town. Wasn't till I was in college that people were shocked about having DPS on campus that I found out that was uncommon.

[Galway Eagle]

So a school cannot suspend a student if they're a minor without the parents' permission?  Are school authorities legally guardians at your fiance's school?  I'm just curious what the actual protocol is here.  Obviously a cop wasn't at the school but can't the school tell the parents we can't have him and the police are on their way if you refuse to take him into custody?

In school suspension. In Milwaukee (where she used to teach) there were really really strict rules around out of school suspensions and most were a day of that (even after a student choked my fiancé) in her new district in a blue collar to less than stellar suburb of Chicago they have similar issues around suspensions. Now I think the police thing is a great leverage tool but given all the videos of police body slamming mommy's little angels I don't think they're excited to help out.

No, but when he has demonstrated he is a danger to himself or others, they can contact authorities to deal with it immediately. They can also search his bag. Or, have him spend the rest of the day with a counselor and a student safety officer, where they can monitor his safety and well being.

That's what I said, she said they're not trained to deal with these situations and we're assuming adequate staffing. But I still agree with you that in these situations the counselor is the best trained individual to help.

[tower912]

Maybe it's an example of why at least one police officer should. be present at our public schools?  Could they not have asked his parents to check his backpack and locker?

There was a security officer in school.   What was the probable cause?    That he was a troubled kid?    Constitutional lawyers would love that.   

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I didn’t think I had to make my comment on real.

Personally, i think they supplied the gun to the kid so he could do what he did.  That’s how horrific and disgusting I think they are. But it’s like clockwork that Jockey makes anything he doesn’t like a political issue. Can’t it just be about what horrible disgusting idiots the parents are, without interjecting politics into it?

There is no question the parents intentionally supplied him with the gun. He was present when his father bought it, his mom posted that it was an early Christmas present, and IIRC he and his mom went practice shooting.

However, as big of POS parents all evidence shows they are, I doubt they actually wanted him to shoot up a school.

[tower912]

https://www.mlive.com/news/2021/12/bond-set-at-500000-for-parents-of-alleged-oxford-high-school-shooter.html

Big bond for these two.   

[MuggsyB]

There was a security officer in school.   What was the probable cause?    That he was a troubled kid?    Constitutional lawyers would love that.

Looking at ammo on his phone?  Drawing a myriad of pictures of guns and killing people?  Isn't this why the teacher sent him to the principal?  I said it's legally flimsy but that doesn't mean there wasn't a strong cause for concern over this kid.

[lawdog77]

There was a security officer in school.   What was the probable cause?    That he was a troubled kid?    Constitutional lawyers would love that.

They don't need probable cause. They just need a reasonable suspicion. If the backpack is in the locker, they can do that without any reasonable suspicion. The locker is school property.

[jesmu84]

I wonder what the Venn diagram looks like between "school wasn't authoritarian enough in Oxford" and "schools/teachers shouldn't get to decide what topics to teach or what books to have in the library" groups.

[Galway Eagle]

They don't need probable cause. They just need a reasonable suspicion. If the backpack is in the locker, they can do that without any reasonable suspicion. The locker is school property.

The lack of back pack search is what gets me upset. I understand the school followed procedure etc but man does that seem like a big misstep.

[tower912]

Thank you,  lawdog.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

So a school cannot suspend a student if they're a minor without the parents' permission?  Are school authorities legally guardians at your fiance's school?  I'm just curious what the actual protocol is here.  Obviously a cop wasn't at the school but can't the school tell the parents we can't have him and the police are on their way if you refuse to take him into custody?

In school suspension. 
Stay with a counselor and or security.
Call child services to get the kid some help.

As this develops, I'm less mad at the kid and more mad at the parents and school.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The kid obviously needed help. The adults failed him. Not making an excuse for his actions, but you have to wonder what a proper intervention could have accomplished.

[Hards Alumni]

You are smart enough to know that's not true. It would be filibustered so it couldn't pass without the support of 60 senators, meaning at least 10 Republicans would have to sign on. It's not a budget issue, so it couldn't pass through reconciliation.

One way to make it possible to save the lives we all claim are precious would be to vote out congresspeople who oppose common-sense laws that would protect our kids and grandkids. If there are Dems who oppose such legislation, they should be voted out, too.

They could just remove the filibuster, you're smart enough to know that.

But this is what Democrats do.  They're massive pushovers.

You bet your ass that when the Republicans are in the same position in the future that the filibuster will be removed.

[Boozemon Barro]

They could just remove the filibuster, you're smart enough to know that.

But this is what Democrats do.  They're massive pushovers.

You bet your ass that when the Republicans are in the same position in the future that the filibuster will be removed.

I would change Democrats to most politicians in general. They all bloviate about issues near and dear to their voters, but when it comes time to actually legislate, they sit on their hands. Their only concern is getting more funding for their re-election campaign.

[MU82]

I would change Democrats to most politicians in general. They all bloviate about issues near and dear to their voters, but when it comes time to actually legislate, they sit on their hands. Their only concern is getting more funding for their re-election campaign.

Not sure what you're arguing here. A state law passed in Connecticut after a tragedy of unspeakable proportions finally got some Republicans to sign on.

So you think that a national law like this could pass in the Senate with at least 10 Republicans supporting it? I highly doubt it, but I'd love to see it. And sure, Dems should push harder for it, make the Republicans say no.

If it did come to vote and the GOP killed it, I'm glad to know that you would vote against any senator in your state who opposed it, regardless of which party he or she is from. Thanks for wanting to save lives, BB!

[Boozemon Barro]

Not sure what you're arguing here. A state law passed in Connecticut after a tragedy of unspeakable proportions finally got some Republicans to sign on.

So you think that a national law like this could pass in the Senate with at least 10 Republicans supporting it? I highly doubt it, but I'd love to see it. And sure, Dems should push harder for it, make the Republicans say no.

If it did come to vote and the GOP killed it, I'm glad to know that you would vote against any senator in your state who opposed it, regardless of which party he or she is from. Thanks for wanting to save lives, BB!

You sure are riled up about this bill you didn't even know was introduced to congress before this morning. If you agree with everything the politicians you vote for do, then I think you are an unthinking stooge. It'd be impossible for me to vote at all by your standards.

[Jockey]

You sure are riled up about this bill you didn't even know was introduced to congress before this morning. If you agree with everything the politicians you vote for do, then I think you are an unthinking stooge. It'd be impossible for me to vote at all by your standards.

Dozens of gun bills have been introduced in Congress in recent years, One party has torpedoed every one.

[MU82]

You sure are riled up about this bill you didn't even know was introduced to congress before this morning. If you agree with everything the politicians you vote for do, then I think you are an unthinking stooge. It'd be impossible for me to vote at all by your standards.

It's not just this legislation I'm "riled up about" -- although this would seem so easy for every American to support, regardless of party. Are there folks out there who don't believe a parent has a responsibility to lock up his or her gun so kids can't get at it? There are numerous common-sense laws -- including some that have support of 70% or 80% or more Americans -- that could be passed to help reduce gun violence. We've discussed many of them in past threads after whatever the unspeakable-tragedy-du-jour happened to be.

I just want to save lives of actual living, breathing human beings, and I think you do too. Unfortunately, we have politicians who will fight to protect our children from the critical-race-theory bogeyman, but not from the guns that are killing them every day.

[Warriors4ever]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-congressman-posts-family-christmas-025707888.html

Nothing says Christmas like guns….a few days after a school shooting.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

We are not a serious country.