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Author Topic: 2022 MLB Thread  (Read 69939 times)

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #75 on: January 20, 2022, 12:24:54 PM »
Tom Hardricourt, who has been with the MJS as a Brewers and baseball writer since 1986, announced his retirement today.  That's a shame.  Good writer with good information.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Uncle Rico

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #76 on: January 20, 2022, 12:38:43 PM »
Tom Hardricourt, who has been with the MJS as a Brewers and baseball writer since 1986, announced his retirement today.  That's a shame.  Good writer with good information.

He was very good covering the team and terrible dealing with fans on social media.  He left Milwaukee for a year in the late 90’s or early 00’s and it stunk.  Assume Rosiak is the lead guy now
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

BrewCity83

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #77 on: January 20, 2022, 04:25:38 PM »
Haudricourt will be missed.  I always liked hearing his insights on the local radio shows too.
The shaka sign, sometimes known as "hang loose", is a gesture of friendly intent often associated with Hawaii and surf culture.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #78 on: January 20, 2022, 05:53:06 PM »
Tampa / Montreal Sister City idea officially squashed by MLB.

Pakuni

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #79 on: January 23, 2022, 12:00:59 PM »
Former Cub/Yankee/Brewer Sergio Mitre is a far worse person than he was a pitcher. And he was a very bad pitcher.

https://sports.yahoo.com/ex-mlb-pitcher-sergio-mitre-sentenced-to-prison-in-mexico-after-rape-murder-of-22-month-old-035517940.html
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 12:03:10 PM by Pakuni »

MU82

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #80 on: January 25, 2022, 07:56:49 AM »
New class of Hall of Fame inductees to be announced later today.

lawdog77

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #81 on: January 25, 2022, 09:56:14 AM »
New class of Hall of Fame inductees to be announced later today.
Will it be another year with no new members?

MU82

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #82 on: January 25, 2022, 10:14:14 AM »
Will it be another year with no new members?

Just guessing, of course ...

I have a feeling Ortiz will get in despite the steroid whispers, because the whispers are much more whispery for him than Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, et al. And Schilling has a real good chance despite all the extraneous BS; his situation is very similar to many others who moved up in the voting and then finally got in at the end.

Will be interesting to see the results, as it always is.

Edit:

This ballot tracker has Bonds and Clemens barely getting in, Ortiz getting in fairly easily and Schilling losing support. But it's only complete through fewer than 50% of the voters.

http://www.bbhoftracker.com/
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 10:16:18 AM by MU82 »

MU82

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #83 on: January 25, 2022, 05:19:43 PM »
Ortiz is the only inductee, and even that was close.

Ortiz 77.9%

Bonds 66.0%

Clemens 65.2%

Schilling 58.6%

ARod 34.3%

Sosa 18.5%

Schilling, who wanted off the ballot ... I guess the electorate effectively said, "OK, you're off." He actually finished behind Rolen (63.2%), who is slowing moving up toward enshrinement.

https://bbwaa.com/22-hof/#votingtable
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 05:24:20 PM by MU82 »

CreightonWarrior

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #84 on: January 25, 2022, 05:59:40 PM »
MLB HOF voting is one of the dumbest things in sports.

JWags85

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #85 on: January 25, 2022, 06:02:34 PM »
MLB HOF voting is one of the dumbest things in sports.

It’s funny, the “scandal” of people not voting for Rodgers for MVP or saying they wouldn’t vote AB into the HOF due to their character issues is huge news and kind of spicy for the NFL…but that would just be a yawn par for the course in MLB HOF voting

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #86 on: January 25, 2022, 07:37:13 PM »
Ortiz is the only inductee, and even that was close.

Ortiz 77.9%

Bonds 66.0%

Clemens 65.2%

Schilling 58.6%

ARod 34.3%

Sosa 18.5%

Schilling, who wanted off the ballot ... I guess the electorate effectively said, "OK, you're off." He actually finished behind Rolen (63.2%), who is slowing moving up toward enshrinement.

https://bbwaa.com/22-hof/#votingtable

What a freakin' joke.  Ortiz is definitely a hall of famer, but if you're a voter for Ortiz who actually tested positive for steroids, you better vote for Bonds and Clemens who never did  test positive and you better vote for A-Rod too who was better than Ortiz.
Schilling is a d-bag but a hall of famer too.
This from a Yankee fan

MU82

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #87 on: January 25, 2022, 08:53:31 PM »
Y'all know I'm just the messenger, right?

Jockey

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #88 on: January 26, 2022, 11:13:26 AM »
What a freakin' joke.  Ortiz is definitely a hall of famer, but if you're a voter for Ortiz who actually tested positive for steroids, you better vote for Bonds and Clemens who never did  test positive and you better vote for A-Rod too who was better than Ortiz.
Schilling is a d-bag but a hall of famer too.
This from a Yankee fan

Yes it is a joke. When the criteria to get in is how nice you were to the reporters who cover the game, something is wrong with the process.

tower912

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #89 on: January 26, 2022, 11:21:34 AM »
Shut up and dribble, aina?
« Last Edit: January 26, 2022, 11:23:25 AM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

dgies9156

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #90 on: January 27, 2022, 08:05:43 AM »
Until Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, Curt Schilling and the the steroid bunch are in the Hall of Fame, it's a joke.

Period.

How can you have a Hall of Fame without the all-time hits leader, all-time home runs leader and one of the best pitchers of all time?

Think about it.... Barry Bonds isn't in but Ted Freakin' Simmons is?

Pete Rose isn't in but Harmon Killebrew is? I loved the Killer but geez, you're suggesting he's a better baseball player than the consummate baseball player of his time?

Rose was one of the greatest ballplayers of all time. Deal with his gambling problems in is Hall presentation, but enshrine him.

Keeping Bonds, Schilling and the steroid bunch out is pretending it didn't happen. It's like pretending that Mark McGwire's and Sammy Sosa's  steroid fueled home run race in the late 1990s didn't save baseball.

Idiots.

tower912

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #91 on: January 27, 2022, 08:18:22 AM »
Until Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, Curt Schilling and the the steroid bunch are in the Hall of Fame, it's a joke.

Period.

How can you have a Hall of Fame without the all-time hits leader, all-time home runs leader and one of the best pitchers of all time?

Think about it.... Barry Bonds isn't in but Ted Freakin' Simmons is?

Pete Rose isn't in but Harmon Killebrew is? I loved the Killer but geez, you're suggesting he's a better baseball player than the consummate baseball player of his time?

Rose was one of the greatest ballplayers of all time. Deal with his gambling problems in is Hall presentation, but enshrine him.

Keeping Bonds, Schilling and the steroid bunch out is pretending it didn't happen. It's like pretending that Mark McGwire's and Sammy Sosa's  steroid fueled home run race in the late 1990s didn't save baseball.

Idiots.
A fair argument.    Perhaps a room specifically for those with asterisks?
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

dgies9156

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #92 on: January 27, 2022, 08:24:36 AM »
A fair argument.    Perhaps a room specifically for those with asterisks?

If you're going to talk about the History of Baseball, you're going to have to talk about things people want to sweep under the rug. Starting with the Black Sox scandal, the segregation of Major League Baseball, the movement to deal with the exploitation of baseball players through the formation and growth of the MLBPA, the drug scandal of the 1980s (Keith "Cocaine Cowboy" Hernandez, are you listening?) and the steroids of the 1990s.

Gambling has been a periodic problem in baseball since its foundation.

You can run from this crap, but you can't hide.

MU82

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #93 on: January 27, 2022, 12:11:23 PM »
Somehow the Baseball Hall of Fame has survived for decades without Rose, the juicers and, for that matter, Shoeless Joe.

It will continue to do just fine. There will be those who think it's a "joke," and those who can't whip up the outrage about this stuff.

I agree that these ballplayers are an important part of baseball history, and if you visit the Hall you can see that their achievements are chronicled there. And the record book is the record book; their achievements are in there, too.

Now, whether or not they should be given the game's highest individual honor and enshrined in the Hall, that's a whole 'nother argument.

First, Rose wasn't on the ballot; voting for him simply wasn't an option. In every single MLB clubhouse, including the Reds clubhouse he ran, there hangs a sign stating that what he did was strictly forbidden and that the consequences would be severe. And he did it anyway. I have absolutely no problem with him not being given the game's greatest honor.

As for the juicers ... neither the Hall of Fame nor the BBWAA gives voters any guidelines about dealing with them. They leave the interpretation of Rule #5 up to each voter. Rule #5 reads: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

So although about 2/3 of voters believed Bonds and Clemens should be enshrined, it wasn't really a very big leap for many voters to invoke the "integrity, sportsmanship, character" part of that and deny guys like Bonds and Clemens.

For the record, when I was a voter I did vote for them. Not on the first ballot because I wasn't gonna give them that, but I did vote for them.

I'd put them in, but I'm not outraged that they're not in. The Hall's still a cool place to visit, and baseball history is baseball history whether they're enshrined or not.

dgies9156

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #94 on: January 27, 2022, 12:26:28 PM »
Somehow the Baseball Hall of Fame has survived for decades without Rose, the juicers and, for that matter, Shoeless Joe.

It will continue to do just fine. There will be those who think it's a "joke," and those who can't whip up the outrage about this stuff.

I agree that these ballplayers are an important part of baseball history, and if you visit the Hall you can see that their achievements are chronicled there. And the record book is the record book; their achievements are in there, too.

Now, whether or not they should be given the game's highest individual honor and enshrined in the Hall, that's a whole 'nother argument.

First, Rose wasn't on the ballot; voting for him simply wasn't an option. In every single MLB clubhouse, including the Reds clubhouse he ran, there hangs a sign stating that what he did was strictly forbidden and that the consequences would be severe. And he did it anyway. I have absolutely no problem with him not being given the game's greatest honor.

As for the juicers ... neither the Hall of Fame nor the BBWAA gives voters any guidelines about dealing with them. They leave the interpretation of Rule #5 up to each voter. Rule #5 reads: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

So although about 2/3 of voters believed Bonds and Clemens should be enshrined, it wasn't really a very big leap for many voters to invoke the "integrity, sportsmanship, character" part of that and deny guys like Bonds and Clemens.

For the record, when I was a voter I did vote for them. Not on the first ballot because I wasn't gonna give them that, but I did vote for them.

I'd put them in, but I'm not outraged that they're not in. The Hall's still a cool place to visit, and baseball history is baseball history whether they're enshrined or not.

Brother MU;

Outrage is a strong word for how I feel. Idiots and a joke probably fits better. Because I think someone is an idiot doesn't mean I'm outraged by their actions.

In fact, I think enshrining Gil Hodges is about four decades overdue. Hell, he should have been enshrined in 1970 for what he did in 1969 with the New York Mets. I still think that's the greatest miracle in the history of baseball!

Hodges to me is an example of what I think will happen to Bonds, Clemens and the juicers. As the decades pass and the moral outrage subsides, I'm pretty confident a future veterans committee will enshrine the best of them. At some point, probably after the juicers are all dead, McGwire, Palmiero and Clemens all will be enshrined. Sosa: Probably not.

Rose is another story. The emotions are very raw and very enmeshed in the game and its observers. Some have argued that Fay Vincent's refusal to deal with ban for life is in part due to the belief that the Rose case put such stress on Bart Giamatti that it brought on his fatal heart attack. Who knows what ends up happening here, but I can't see Rose going in during his lifetime, or for at least another 75 years. That probably will be past Little Petey's lifetime too. I think you can have Rose in the Hall without idolizing his off-the-field activities. But I'm in the minority and while I've been advocating to my sports editor brother that Rose should be in, his opinion is far more prevalent than mine.

MU82

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #95 on: January 27, 2022, 01:28:48 PM »
Thanks for the discussion, dg. We could go on and on, and round and round on this, so I won't.

I guess I am curious as to why you think some old-times committee would enshrine McGwire and Palmeiro but probably not Sosa, whose stats are easily better than McGwire's and on a par with Palmeiro's.

Hards Alumni

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #96 on: January 27, 2022, 05:06:55 PM »
Thanks for the discussion, dg. We could go on and on, and round and round on this, so I won't.

I guess I am curious as to why you think some old-times committee would enshrine McGwire and Palmeiro but probably not Sosa, whose stats are easily better than McGwire's and on a par with Palmeiro's.

The real problem is that MLB looks the other way on certain players.

David Ortiz tested positive for a banned substance in 2003. 

dgies9156

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #97 on: January 29, 2022, 08:14:35 AM »
Thanks for the discussion, dg. We could go on and on, and round and round on this, so I won't.

I guess I am curious as to why you think some old-times committee would enshrine McGwire and Palmeiro but probably not Sosa, whose stats are easily better than McGwire's and on a par with Palmeiro's.

Corked bat incident, atop his steroid use.

MU82

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #98 on: January 29, 2022, 08:55:04 AM »
Corked bat incident, atop his steroid use.

I agree that Sammy will never see the Hall. I don't think McGwire will, either, as he was the poster boy for blatant cheating and lying, and his stats pre-cheating were nowhere near Hall-worthy. It would take having the "right" people on a veterans committee for Bonds, Clemens and/or McGwire to get in because there's no love lost for juicers among current HoFers.

The interesting case going forward will be ARod. Theoretically it is the older voters who mostly aren't voting for juicers, and the electorate could change a lot in the next 5-9 years. Then again, ARod flaunted the rules even after they were rewritten specifically to ban what he did on multiple occasions, so we'll see.

JWags85

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #99 on: January 29, 2022, 11:23:28 AM »
A Rod is interesting cause he’s more like Bonds. A 5 tool HOF player who used PEDs to become a power hitting beast in addition, but would have been without