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Author Topic: More conference realignment talk  (Read 373677 times)

Dickthedribbler

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2350 on: June 05, 2023, 02:51:05 PM »
I don't know the details of these TV contract negotiations, but doesn't FOX currently get first dibs on all our home non-conference games as well?  If they're just looking for content, all the Big East teams can still schedule non-conference games to fill that void.


Ultimately, we'll get a number with expansion and without expansion and see what's more on a per school basis, but the expansion number better be significantly bigger to justify making a change like this.  I'm in the camp that we should just hang tight until we see what happens with the ACC.

Agree 100%.

SaveOD238

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2351 on: June 05, 2023, 02:54:31 PM »
The downside to SLU is that St. Louis is not a hotbed of basketball. I lived in St. Louis for several years and was always amazed that basketball just did not seem to be on the radar of many people. Two NBA teams have failed there as well as one teams in the old ABA. It is a baseball / hockey town.

If by "fail" you mean "agreed to fold the team in exchange for 1/30 of the NBA TV revenue in perpetuity," then yes, the ABA team in St. Louis failed.

StillAWarrior

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2352 on: June 05, 2023, 03:21:20 PM »
If by "fail" you mean "agreed to fold the team in exchange for 1/30 of the NBA TV revenue in perpetuity," then yes, the ABA team in St. Louis failed.

Wow. I had never heard that. Just quickly looked it up. Apparently, all told, they (and their lawyer) received approximately $800 million from the deal - including the $500 million buyout in 2014. Nice.
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The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2353 on: June 05, 2023, 03:56:56 PM »
If by "fail" you mean "agreed to fold the team in exchange for 1/30 of the NBA TV revenue in perpetuity," then yes, the ABA team in St. Louis failed.

They failed. They hardly drew a crowd and were struggling so much with the market that they were looking to move. At the time of the "merger," the NBA bought out two owners to avoid a lawsuit - the Kentucky Colonels took a lump sum payment.  The Spirits of St. Louis took a share of media rights.

But they added the Spurs, Pacers, Nets and Nuggets because they were considered the strongest financially.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2023, 04:02:10 PM by The Sultan of Semantics »
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The Equalizer

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2354 on: June 05, 2023, 05:07:19 PM »
Quote from: lawdog77 link=topic=62146.msg1554956#msg1554956 date=
Just a hunch, but if the Big12 adds basketball schools, we're on that train with UConn, Nova, and Gonzaga.

I think Creighton draws the nod before Marquette based on TV audience. They're simply a bigger draw.

Here's every game last season that drew more than 200,000 viewers for both teams. Even if you remove the outliers (Maui, the Christmas Day game) they consistently generated a bigger regular season audience than Marquette for both FOX and FS1 games--despite the fact that we were ahead of them in the standings almost the entire season.

Couple better TV ratings with the fact that they're a better geographic fit with most Big 12 teams and that they've been generally as good as MU has been over the last decade, and it's not a foregone conclusion that we would get a Big 12 invitation ahead of Creighton.

As an aside, Xavier probably gets the nod ahead of us as well.

Marquette 2023 Ratings:
   Audience (000)      Day      Date      Game      Notes      Notes   
   574      Sunday      15-Jan      Marquette/Xavier      FOX         
   538      Saturday      4-Mar      St. Johns/Marquette      FOX         
   302      Saturday      3-Dec      Marquette/Wisconsin      FS1         
   298      Tuesday      21-Feb      Marquette/Creighton      FS1         
   239      Wednesday      1-Feb      Villanova/Marquette      FS1         
   208      Friday      16-Dec      Creighton/Marquette      FS1         
   204      Saturday      31-Dec      Marquette/Villanova      FS1         

Creighton 2023 Ratings
   Audience (000)      Day      Date      Game      Notes      Notes   
   2991      Sunday      25-Dec      Creighton/Depaul      FOX         
   1158      Tuesday      22-Nov      Creighton/Arkansas      ESPN      Maui   
   1104      Wednesday      23-Nov      Creighton/Arizona      ESPN      Maui   
   1092      Saturday      28-Jan      Xavier/Creighton      CBS         
   901      Saturday      11-Feb      Uconn/Creighton      FOX         
   873      Saturday      7-Jan      Creighton/Uconn      FOX         
   814      Thursday      1-Dec      Creighton/Texas      ESPN      Big 12/Big East   
   730      Saturday      25-Feb      Creighton/Villanova      FOX         
   567      Saturday      4-Feb      Villanova/Creighton      FOX         
   345      Saturday      18-Feb      Creighton/St. Johns      FS1         
   332      Sunday      4-Dec      Creighton/Nebraska      FS1         
   323      Tuesday      14-Feb      Creighton/Providence      FS1         
   298      Tuesday      21-Feb      Marquette/Creighton      FS1         
   263      Monday      21-Nov      Creighton/Texas Tech      ESPN2      Maui   
   208      Friday      16-Dec      Creighton/Marquette      FS1         
   200      Wednesday      8-Feb      Creighton/Seton Hall      FS1         
   

Viper

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2355 on: June 05, 2023, 06:33:05 PM »
I think Creighton draws the nod before Marquette based on TV audience. They're simply a bigger draw.

Here's every game last season that drew more than 200,000 viewers for both teams. Even if you remove the outliers (Maui, the Christmas Day game) they consistently generated a bigger regular season audience than Marquette for both FOX and FS1 games--despite the fact that we were ahead of them in the standings almost the entire season.

Couple better TV ratings with the fact that they're a better geographic fit with most Big 12 teams and that they've been generally as good as MU has been over the last decade, and it's not a foregone conclusion that we would get a Big 12 invitation ahead of Creighton.

As an aside, Xavier probably gets the nod ahead of us as well.

Marquette 2023 Ratings:
   Audience (000)      Day      Date      Game      Notes      Notes   
   574      Sunday      15-Jan      Marquette/Xavier      FOX         
   538      Saturday      4-Mar      St. Johns/Marquette      FOX         
   302      Saturday      3-Dec      Marquette/Wisconsin      FS1         
   298      Tuesday      21-Feb      Marquette/Creighton      FS1         
   239      Wednesday      1-Feb      Villanova/Marquette      FS1         
   208      Friday      16-Dec      Creighton/Marquette      FS1         
   204      Saturday      31-Dec      Marquette/Villanova      FS1         

Creighton 2023 Ratings
   Audience (000)      Day      Date      Game      Notes      Notes   
   2991      Sunday      25-Dec      Creighton/Depaul      FOX         
   1158      Tuesday      22-Nov      Creighton/Arkansas      ESPN      Maui   
   1104      Wednesday      23-Nov      Creighton/Arizona      ESPN      Maui   
   1092      Saturday      28-Jan      Xavier/Creighton      CBS         
   901      Saturday      11-Feb      Uconn/Creighton      FOX         
   873      Saturday      7-Jan      Creighton/Uconn      FOX         
   814      Thursday      1-Dec      Creighton/Texas      ESPN      Big 12/Big East   
   730      Saturday      25-Feb      Creighton/Villanova      FOX         
   567      Saturday      4-Feb      Villanova/Creighton      FOX         
   345      Saturday      18-Feb      Creighton/St. Johns      FS1         
   332      Sunday      4-Dec      Creighton/Nebraska      FS1         
   323      Tuesday      14-Feb      Creighton/Providence      FS1         
   298      Tuesday      21-Feb      Marquette/Creighton      FS1         
   263      Monday      21-Nov      Creighton/Texas Tech      ESPN2      Maui   
   208      Friday      16-Dec      Creighton/Marquette      FS1         
   200      Wednesday      8-Feb      Creighton/Seton Hall      FS1         
…marquette is old money, in the bank and earning interest. If a BIG12, for example, is looking at a very national reach, MU checks boxes w/large alumni bases in major markets, i.e. Chicago, St Louis, NYC, Boston, Philly, DC. And, the Marquette basketball ‘name’ still carries some pizazz. This matters more-so than one season of tv ratings. Imo, of course.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2356 on: June 05, 2023, 06:55:59 PM »
Marquette doesn't have a "very national reach."  In the grand scheme of things, Marquette has a small but passionate fanbase.
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ChitownSpaceForRent

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2357 on: June 05, 2023, 09:01:59 PM »
Marquette doesn't have a "very national reach."  In the grand scheme of things, Marquette has a small but passionate fanbase.

In regards to sheer number of graduates, sure.

But I dunno man, I’ve met some Marquette grads in weird places that I’d never expected .

Viper

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2358 on: June 05, 2023, 09:55:04 PM »
Marquette doesn't have a "very national reach."  In the grand scheme of things, Marquette has a small but passionate fanbase.
i don’t necessarily disagree. However, mention MU basketball in many east coast locales…name resonates. AL’s success still paying dividends…and just when a ‘fade’ was setting in, DWade led a charge back. The Woj fade, the Smart recharge. Passionate fan base, for sure. Certainly not a Duke-class national base, but surprisingly stout.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2359 on: June 06, 2023, 03:55:20 AM »
In regards to sheer number of graduates, sure.

But I dunno man, I’ve met some Marquette grads in weird places that I’d never expected .


Every school has grads in weird places. That’s not unique to MU.
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lawdog77

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2360 on: June 06, 2023, 06:34:06 AM »
I think Creighton draws the nod before Marquette based on TV audience. They're simply a bigger draw.

Here's every game last season that drew more than 200,000 viewers for both teams. Even if you remove the outliers (Maui, the Christmas Day game) they consistently generated a bigger regular season audience than Marquette for both FOX and FS1 games--despite the fact that we were ahead of them in the standings almost the entire season.

Couple better TV ratings with the fact that they're a better geographic fit with most Big 12 teams and that they've been generally as good as MU has been over the last decade, and it's not a foregone conclusion that we would get a Big 12 invitation ahead of Creighton.

As an aside, Xavier probably gets the nod ahead of us as well.

Marquette 2023 Ratings:
   Audience (000)      Day      Date      Game      Notes      Notes   
   574      Sunday      15-Jan      Marquette/Xavier      FOX         
   538      Saturday      4-Mar      St. Johns/Marquette      FOX         
   302      Saturday      3-Dec      Marquette/Wisconsin      FS1         
   298      Tuesday      21-Feb      Marquette/Creighton      FS1         
   239      Wednesday      1-Feb      Villanova/Marquette      FS1         
   208      Friday      16-Dec      Creighton/Marquette      FS1         
   204      Saturday      31-Dec      Marquette/Villanova      FS1         

Creighton 2023 Ratings
   Audience (000)      Day      Date      Game      Notes      Notes   
   2991      Sunday      25-Dec      Creighton/Depaul      FOX         
   1158      Tuesday      22-Nov      Creighton/Arkansas      ESPN      Maui   
   1104      Wednesday      23-Nov      Creighton/Arizona      ESPN      Maui   
   1092      Saturday      28-Jan      Xavier/Creighton      CBS         
   901      Saturday      11-Feb      Uconn/Creighton      FOX         
   873      Saturday      7-Jan      Creighton/Uconn      FOX         
   814      Thursday      1-Dec      Creighton/Texas      ESPN      Big 12/Big East   
   730      Saturday      25-Feb      Creighton/Villanova      FOX         
   567      Saturday      4-Feb      Villanova/Creighton      FOX         
   345      Saturday      18-Feb      Creighton/St. Johns      FS1         
   332      Sunday      4-Dec      Creighton/Nebraska      FS1         
   323      Tuesday      14-Feb      Creighton/Providence      FS1         
   298      Tuesday      21-Feb      Marquette/Creighton      FS1         
   263      Monday      21-Nov      Creighton/Texas Tech      ESPN2      Maui   
   208      Friday      16-Dec      Creighton/Marquette      FS1         
   200      Wednesday      8-Feb      Creighton/Seton Hall      FS1         
Kind of apples to oranges at that. Creighton's Fox games were against UConn. Creighton was picked much higher preseason, so they received the better TV matchups.We'll see what this year looks like.

What was the largest TV audience first weekend of the tourney?
As expected, men’s March Madness dominated the weekend. Sunday evening’s upset victory for Michigan State over Marquette took the top spot, averaging an enormous 10.9 million viewers for a 5.86 rating, per ShowBuzzDaily.


Hards Alumni

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2361 on: June 06, 2023, 11:24:12 AM »
Reading the ESPN article https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/37781820/big-12-talks-expansion-source-says-commish-touts-plan, UCONN sounds like a basketball only candidate for the Big XII, a guess to even out a theoretical Gonzaga addition. Where would UCONN put their other sports?

Regardless the article points out the presidents are not doing anything until the PAC12 mess is resolved.

Up their asses, of course.

tower912

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2362 on: June 06, 2023, 12:05:21 PM »
Saudis could buy them.
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El Guerrero 2

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2363 on: June 06, 2023, 02:02:12 PM »
Saudis could buy them.

UConn to the PGA/LIV Tour!!!

Viper

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2364 on: June 06, 2023, 05:18:29 PM »
UConn to the PGA/LIV Tour!!!
well played

WhiteTrash

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2365 on: June 06, 2023, 05:54:50 PM »
UConn to the PGA/LIV Tour!!!
That feels more like an ND move.

Tyler COLEk

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2366 on: June 06, 2023, 11:14:55 PM »
I still don’t understand the Big 12’s interest in UConn. All of this is driven by the football money, which is several multiples higher than basketball. Why would the conference want to share that with another party who’s bringing very little to the football side of the equation? They just want UConn basketball that badly? But isn’t UConn’s bball’s financial impact significantly lower than adding even a middling football program?

El Guerrero 2

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2367 on: June 06, 2023, 11:55:37 PM »
I still don’t understand the Big 12’s interest in UConn. All of this is driven by the football money, which is several multiples higher than basketball. Why would the conference want to share that with another party who’s bringing very little to the football side of the equation? They just want UConn basketball that badly? But isn’t UConn’s bball’s financial impact significantly lower than adding even a middling football program?

They don’t want UConn. They want Arizona, ASU, Utah and Colorado and acting like they want UConn advances that goal.

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2368 on: June 07, 2023, 06:04:44 AM »
Brett Yormark might want UConn. He seems to think basketball is an untapped market & is preparing for a future where it has a more dominant market position like football does now.

The problem is twofold. First, that future is 15-20 years away at minimum. Second, I highly doubt his athletic directors want to make trips to Storrs for the next couple decades to see if he's right.
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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2369 on: June 07, 2023, 07:05:41 AM »
They don’t want UConn. They want Arizona, ASU, Utah and Colorado and acting like they want UConn advances that goal.

This

Brett Yormark might want UConn. He seems to think basketball is an untapped market & is preparing for a future where it has a more dominant market position like football does now.

The problem is twofold. First, that future is 15-20 years away at minimum. Second, I highly doubt his athletic directors want to make trips to Storrs for the next couple decades to see if he's right.

But also sort of this. I don't think Yormak b thinks it will be more dominant than football,  but rather recognizes that they will always be a distant 3rd in football and thinks he can close the gap some by being dominant in basketball.

If UConn is added, i think it is as a basketball only school
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lawdog77

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2370 on: June 07, 2023, 07:44:25 AM »

If UConn is added, i think it is as a basketball only school
Do you think if the Big XII were to do this, they would stop at 1 school?

muwarrior69

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2371 on: June 07, 2023, 07:47:10 AM »

But also sort of this. I don't think Yormak b thinks it will be more dominant than football,  but rather recognizes that they will always be a distant 3rd in football and thinks he can close the gap some by being dominant in basketball.

If UConn is added, i think it is as a basketball only school

... and when all this realignment sorts itself out and they create their own basketball tournament UCONN hoops will remain relevant while the NCAA fades away.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2372 on: June 07, 2023, 07:50:11 AM »
Do you think if the Big XII were to do this, they would stop at 1 school?

I think they would also invite Gonzaga.

This would be a risky move for UConn. I get why they do it with football, but without football their motivations must be that football could occur sometime in the future and/or if the big conferences ever leave the NCAA, they would be on the right side.

But being in a geographically distant conference didn't work out great the last time. And yes while the B12 is a great basketball conference, that's not always going to be the case.
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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2373 on: June 07, 2023, 07:59:07 AM »
If UConn is added, i think it is as a basketball only school

Did that rule change? One of the biggest barriers to Gonzaga was that schools couldn't join as basketball only. UConn could join as football only, but everything else has to join if the conference offers it. That's why travel was such a problem with Gonzaga, because all the non-revenue sports also have to deal with traveling (both for us and them).
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Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #2374 on: June 07, 2023, 08:06:17 AM »
My guess is that when TAMU means "basketball only" he means "everything but football."  I could be wrong though but that's how I took it.
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