More conference realignment talk

[Spotcheck Billy]

Most of what I'm reading is that the B1G and SEC are done expanding for now. B12 might still try to poach from the P12. Guess we can put off the death of college sports for at least a few more years.

From stories I've read my guess is not much might happen unless/until ND decides to make a jump.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

hate to say I told you so, but.... Outside of football, this has been a long term goal of the Power conferences and they have been discussing  this with CBS for a while:


Stadium/Field of 68's Goodman says at a recent DI Council meeting SEC Commissioner Sankey hinted at the potential of a hoops NCAA Tournament that may not include automatic qualifiers from some conferences. Goodman: "Sankey made it look like the NCAA Tournament may not look like the NCAA Tournament in a couple years. Meaning, that the little guys might not be involved anymore. All I'm saying is don't be surprised if there's a push ... to not include the usual." Goodman adds that he talked to others involved in the meeting who disagreed with the assessment that Sankey was suggesting major change could be coming to tourney access. More. (link) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83_idrdR6e8

I don't think anyone is surprised by this.

[LAZER]

From stories I've read my guess is not much might happen unless/until ND decides to make a jump.

I don't think ND makes a move until they have to. They're in a unique position where they can be patient and wait to see how things shake out vs the others that are rats on a sinking ship.

[brewcity77]

While it is fun to think that anyone in the NCAA basketball tournament can "win it all," the fact remains that once the games start, reality sets in. Sure, Loyola will make a deep run once in awhile, and a Miami of Ohio will, once in the school's history defeat a defending national champion. But by and large, Cindarella may be at the ball but she's an unnoticed wallflower.

I actually would rather see a tournament where more Power 5+ conference members compete. Cut it off long before UMBC shows up on a 16 line. It aint going to happen again. I'd rather see a marginal Marquette team get hot, like we did last January in regular season, and take down college basketball's sequoias, that a 60 point win by a one-or-two seed in what amounts to a warm-up bye game.

Of course, we've had our a*sses handed to us the last few years too!

If they do this, I would like them to cut the number of auto-bids rather than eliminate them. The beauty of the NCAA Tournament is that every eligible team has a path to the National Championship when the season starts. Sure, it's incredibly unlikely, but we have seen teams like Loyola and St. Peter's get closer than anyone would ever expect, and even that 5-seed Butler that was a lucky bounce away from taking the title from Duke shows that having those teams is still worthwhile.

I would propose the following if this was the route we had to go:

• Go back to a 64-team field.
  
• The 8 highest ranked NET conferences from the previous year have their conference tournaments during Championship Week and each get to send one automatic qualifier.
  
• The bottom 24 NET leagues from the previous year play their conference tournaments the week before Championship Week (like many already do), then those 24 champions are seeded into four six-team brackets. Those six-team tournaments are played during Championship Week on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday (top two NET ranked teams get byes). The 4 winners get auto-bids as 16-seeds.
  
• That gives you 12 auto-bids. The other 52 bids go to at-large teams. They can be from any league, giving smaller leagues a theoretical chance to get a second bid from time to time, but generally the big boys get them.
  
• By having the four Tournaments of Champions during Championship Week, every team retains a theoretical opportunity to win the National Championship.
  
• If they want to retain play-in games, expand the field from 64 to 72 and create two sites, Dayton and Omaha. Each site has two play-in games on Tuesday and Wednesday to determine the final 8 participants. Ratings would be higher as these would all be at-large caliber teams.

[Scoop Snoop]

I really like this Brew. It still gives the little guys a fair chance to prove themselves. The current system crowds out some solid teams from major conferences due to the number of auto bids.

[Hards Alumni]

If they do this, I would like them to cut the number of auto-bids rather than eliminate them. The beauty of the NCAA Tournament is that every eligible team has a path to the National Championship when the season starts. Sure, it's incredibly unlikely, but we have seen teams like Loyola and St. Peter's get closer than anyone would ever expect, and even that 5-seed Butler that was a lucky bounce away from taking the title from Duke shows that having those teams is still worthwhile.

I would propose the following if this was the route we had to go:

• Go back to a 64-team field.
  
• The 8 highest ranked NET conferences from the previous year have their conference tournaments during Championship Week and each get to send one automatic qualifier.
  
• The bottom 24 NET leagues from the previous year play their conference tournaments the week before Championship Week (like many already do), then those 24 champions are seeded into four six-team brackets. Those six-team tournaments are played during Championship Week on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday (top two NET ranked teams get byes). The 4 winners get auto-bids as 16-seeds.
  
• That gives you 12 auto-bids. The other 52 bids go to at-large teams. They can be from any league, giving smaller leagues a theoretical chance to get a second bid from time to time, but generally the big boys get them.
  
• By having the four Tournaments of Champions during Championship Week, every team retains a theoretical opportunity to win the National Championship.
  
• If they want to retain play-in games, expand the field from 64 to 72 and create two sites, Dayton and Omaha. Each site has two play-in games on Tuesday and Wednesday to determine the final 8 participants. Ratings would be higher as these would all be at-large caliber teams.

Would be fun for the fans, but bad for business and is therefore very pie in the sky.

I think one of my main concerns is the lack of visibility guys like Ja Morant, Steph Curry, etc. would get under a new tournament that didn't include mid majors.

Basically, if you want to get drafted, then you'd better go to a school which is eligible for the new format tournament.  Would consolidate talent even more than we already see.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Would be fun for the fans, but bad for business and is therefore very pie in the sky.

I think one of my main concerns is the lack of visibility guys like Ja Morant, Steph Curry, etc. would get under a new tournament that didn't include mid majors.

Basically, if you want to get drafted, then you'd better go to a school which is eligible for the new format tournament.  Would consolidate talent even more than we already see.

I think A10 would end up making the cut so Curry would have still been in. Hard to see Murray State making the cut.

[lawdog77]

I think A10 would end up making the cut so Curry would have still been in. Hard to see Murray State making the cut.

Davidson was in the Southern Conference when Curry was there.

[dgies9156]

So what does the Big East look like in 10 years? Here's my best guess today.

Legacy Members
Marquette
Georgetown
Butler
Depaul
Creighton
UConn
Villanova
St. John's
Xavier
Providence
Seton Hall

"Legacy" is defined as 2022 members of the Big East. None of these teams are going anywhere. DePaul may get the riot act read to them but they're staying.

Probability Greater than 50 Percent by 2032
Gonzaga -- Will wake up to the fact that to win a natty, you have to play a real live Natty schedule. Needs the Big East for that.
Duke -- See earlier comment. Football is crap and has very little legacy to it.
Wake Forest -- Duke only with less appeal to anyone else.
Syracuse -- See earlier comment. If they haven't yet sent Val flowers, they will SOON!

This would bring us to a 15 team league, restore Syracuse to the Eastern rivalries and add the plum of the break-up, Duke. All three will follow the UConn model for football. This would be a very, very competitive basketball conference and would be a killer for recruiting. Whoever comes out of this will be a Natty favorite.

Well, yeah, but....
Louisville -- Would be nice to get these birds back, but I'd expect the Big 12 to take them immediately. Restores rivalries with West Virginia. Major commitment to football.
Pittsburgh -- Ditto Louisville. Bigger dreams than reality.
NC State -- Ditto All of the above.
Vanderbilt -- They'll come when they get drummed out of the SEC for having a crappy football program. Big problem is baseball. Vandy is REALLY good in baseball and I don't see the Big East playing competitive baseball at Vandy's level.
The Kansases -- Not gonna happen either.

[brewcity77]

Would be fun for the fans, but bad for business and is therefore very pie in the sky.

It would be far better for business and far more lucrative. High major vs high major games are typically the highest rated games. The high major play in games destroy the 16-seeds play in games on the same night. Paint Touches did a dive into NCAA ratings and P5 v P5 is significantly better for ratings than even prominent non-P5s like Big East or Gonzaga. Something like this is probably the only chance the low majors have of inclusion beyond 2032.

[PBRme]

So what does the Big East look like in 10 years? Here's my best guess today.

Legacy Members
Marquette
Georgetown
Butler
Depaul
Creighton
UConn
Villanova
St. John's
Xavier
Providence
Seton Hall

"Legacy" is defined as 2022 members of the Big East. None of these teams are going anywhere. DePaul may get the riot act read to them but they're staying.

Probability Greater than 50 Percent by 2032
Gonzaga -- Will wake up to the fact that to win a natty, you have to play a real live Natty schedule. Needs the Big East for that.
Duke -- See earlier comment. Football is crap and has very little legacy to it.
Wake Forest -- Duke only with less appeal to anyone else.
Syracuse -- See earlier comment. If they haven't yet sent Val flowers, they will SOON!

This would bring us to a 15 team league, restore Syracuse to the Eastern rivalries and add the plum of the break-up, Duke. All three will follow the UConn model for football. This would be a very, very competitive basketball conference and would be a killer for recruiting. Whoever comes out of this will be a Natty favorite.

Well, yeah, but....
Louisville -- Would be nice to get these birds back, but I'd expect the Big 12 to take them immediately. Restores rivalries with Cincinnati and West Virginia. Major commitment to football.
Pittsburgh -- Ditto Louisville. Bigger dreams than reality.
NC State -- Ditto All of the above.
Vanderbilt -- They'll come when they get drummed out of the SEC for having a crappy football program. Big problem is baseball. Vandy is REALLY good in baseball and I don't see the Big East playing competitive baseball at Vandy's level.
The Kansases -- Not gonna happen either.

What no BC

[jfp61]

Duke more likely than Kansas is hilarious

[LAZER]

Duke more likely than Kansas is hilarious

Why?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Davidson was in the Southern Conference when Curry was there.

You are correct sir. Forgot that bit of context

[Herman Cain]

SMU had discussions to join ACC...

https://www.si.com/college/fsu/football/report-acc-has-had-conversations-in-regards-to-adding-new-team-to-conference

[dgies9156]

Duke more likely than Kansas is hilarious

Brother 61:

I don't agree with you because the Big12/10/?? has options. It can merge with the remnants of the Pac 8, sans the Beavs and Cougs, and become a powerhouse conference. In that vein, Kansas would have to be kicked out, a la Vanderbilt. I just don't see that happening.

Plus, if Oregon, Washington, Cal and Stanford along with the Buffs stay in the merged conference, there's money and markets available.

Duke, on the other hand, may be left with its proverbial pants down. I can see the SEC taking Clemson, UNC, Miami and the Seminoles. It makes sense on so many levels. I can't see them taking Duke and Wake Forest and its doubtful such schools as Boston College, Virginia Tech, North Carolina State, Syracuse, Pitt, etc, will end up in the SEC. Some might go Big12/10/?? but I can't see Duke doing that. Their football isn't THAT good to warrant Power 5/4/3 inclusion and I don't know any conference this side of the MAC that would want them in Football.

There's no tradition there. They are even worse than Vanderbilt because they suck in a conference where they shouldn't. In short, Vanderbilt plays tougher competition. And, they've never lucked into a conference championship the way Northwestern has.

Unlike Syracuse, who needs to be sending Val flowers and chocolate by the carload, Val needs to put on her party dress, pack a couple of lightweight suits (preferably with a navy blue and white scarf -- but never Carolina blue) and go spend some schmooze time at the Durham, NC country club with Duke. Hint: Val might want to talk about Theo and how he inspired her!

[Hards Alumni]

It would be far better for business and far more lucrative. High major vs high major games are typically the highest rated games. The high major play in games destroy the 16-seeds play in games on the same night. Paint Touches did a dive into NCAA ratings and P5 v P5 is significantly better for ratings than even prominent non-P5s like Big East or Gonzaga. Something like this is probably the only chance the low majors have of inclusion beyond 2032.

I think you think I'm saying something else.  I think your idea doesn't work because there is zero incentive for the P5 schools to include the mid majors. 

[Hards Alumni]

Brother 61:

I don't agree with you because the Big12/10/?? has options. It can merge with the remnants of the Pac 8, sans the Beavs and Cougs, and become a powerhouse conference. In that vein, Kansas would have to be kicked out, a la Vanderbilt. I just don't see that happening.

Plus, if Oregon, Washington, Cal and Stanford along with the Buffs stay in the merged conference, there's money and markets available.

Duke, on the other hand, may be left with its proverbial pants down. I can see the SEC taking Clemson, UNC, Miami and the Seminoles. It makes sense on so many levels. I can't see them taking Duke and Wake Forest and its doubtful such schools as Boston College, Virginia Tech, North Carolina State, Syracuse, Pitt, etc, will end up in the SEC. Some might go Big12/10/?? but I can't see Duke doing that. Their football isn't THAT good to warrant Power 5/4/3 inclusion and I don't know any conference this side of the MAC that would want them in Football.

There's no tradition there. They are even worse than Vanderbilt because they suck in a conference where they shouldn't. In short, Vanderbilt plays tougher competition. And, they've never lucked into a conference championship the way Northwestern has.

Unlike Syracuse, who needs to be sending Val flowers and chocolate by the carload, Val needs to put on her party dress, pack a couple of lightweight suits (preferrably with a blue and white scarf) and go spend some time at the Durham, NC country club with Duke. Hint: Val might want to talk about Theo and how he inspired her!

If they SEC grabs those teams, I could see them taking VA (if they don't end up in the B1G) or VaTech as a consolation.  Otherwise, the other schools make sense and foster new local rivalries.

[dgies9156]

If they SEC grabs those teams, I could see them taking VA (if they don't end up in the B1G) or VaTech as a consolation.  Otherwise, the other schools make sense and foster new local rivalries.

Local rivalries?

What the hell are those?

They went out the window with realignment. Just ask the Beavs and Cougs in about five years.

[bilsu]

If they do this, I would like them to cut the number of auto-bids rather than eliminate them. The beauty of the NCAA Tournament is that every eligible team has a path to the National Championship when the season starts. Sure, it's incredibly unlikely, but we have seen teams like Loyola and St. Peter's get closer than anyone would ever expect, and even that 5-seed Butler that was a lucky bounce away from taking the title from Duke shows that having those teams is still worthwhile.

I would propose the following if this was the route we had to go:

• Go back to a 64-team field.
  
• The 8 highest ranked NET conferences from the previous year have their conference tournaments during Championship Week and each get to send one automatic qualifier.
  
• The bottom 24 NET leagues from the previous year play their conference tournaments the week before Championship Week (like many already do), then those 24 champions are seeded into four six-team brackets. Those six-team tournaments are played during Championship Week on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday (top two NET ranked teams get byes). The 4 winners get auto-bids as 16-seeds.
  
• That gives you 12 auto-bids. The other 52 bids go to at-large teams. They can be from any league, giving smaller leagues a theoretical chance to get a second bid from time to time, but generally the big boys get them.
  
• By having the four Tournaments of Champions during Championship Week, every team retains a theoretical opportunity to win the National Championship.
  
• If they want to retain play-in games, expand the field from 64 to 72 and create two sites, Dayton and Omaha. Each site has two play-in games on Tuesday and Wednesday to determine the final 8 participants. Ratings would be higher as these would all be at-large caliber teams.

I think it is more likely the tournament expands. Top 12 seeds get a bye. 32 teams play first round play in game. This will allow more bids for power 5 conferences and most of non-major conferences will be out in first round.

[Herman Cain]

NCAA Basketball locked up till 2032. Networks love it the way it is. Emmert made a bad deal by extending.

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2016/04/cbs-turner-ncaa-march-madness-eight-year-extension-final-four-cable-2032/#:~:text=CBS%20and%20Turner%20Sports%20have,set%20to%20expire%20in%202024.

https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/cbs-turner-partnership-ncaa-tournament-huge-benefits-76504960

https://www.yahoo.com/video/ncaa-president-mark-emmerts-35-billion-mistake-will-define-his-failed-tenure-232648011.html

[forgetful]

SMU had discussions to join ACC...

https://www.si.com/college/fsu/football/report-acc-has-had-conversations-in-regards-to-adding-new-team-to-conference

If you read it closely, it says SMU was contacting the ACC and other conferences. That is a big difference than the conferences reaching out to them.

The only reason for a conference to grab SMU is to get a foothold in Texas, where all the other reasonably teams are already chosen (Houston, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech in B12; A&M and Texas to SEC). If I was the ACC I'd actually try to grab Baylor or TCU first. Same if I was the PAC12.

[Hards Alumni]

NCAA Basketball locked up till 2032. Networks love it the way it is. Emmert made a bad deal by extending.

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2016/04/cbs-turner-ncaa-march-madness-eight-year-extension-final-four-cable-2032/#:~:text=CBS%20and%20Turner%20Sports%20have,set%20to%20expire%20in%202024.

https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/cbs-turner-partnership-ncaa-tournament-huge-benefits-76504960

https://www.yahoo.com/video/ncaa-president-mark-emmerts-35-billion-mistake-will-define-his-failed-tenure-232648011.html

You're assuming the NCAA includes the P5-6 in this scenario.

[WhiteTrash]

What no BC

I sometimes forget BC is D1 in sports.

[Hards Alumni]

I sometimes forget BC is D1 in sports.

So does BC and their fans