More conference realignment talk

[TallTitan34]

https://twitter.com/MHver3/status/1633301652366147584?s=20

[Uncle Rico]

https://twitter.com/MHver3/status/1633301652366147584?s=20

He's been wrong a lot through the years

[WarriorDoc]

https://twitter.com/MHver3/status/1633301652366147584?s=20

IMO that reads like a conference realignment fan fiction more than something serious. Interesting, but highly unlikely.

[MDMU04]

4 days ago that dude tweeted that Georgetown and Nova were deep in talks to join the B12.  Now today he's saying "Georgetown would have been a shoe-in in 20 years ago" and three other schools are in.  I think this guy volume tweets what he hears through telephone game and hopes something sticks.

Doesn't sound promising though.

[MUfan12]

Yeah there has been too much talk for too long to make me think there's nothing to this.

If the Big East gets poached and we're left behind, it's going to be very hard for the program to stay relevant. The contingency plan can't be to bring A10 schools up, but short of a similar deal with the ACC I don't know what the options would be.

[Uncle Rico]

4 days ago that dude tweeted that Georgetown and Nova were deep in talks to join the B12.  Now today he's saying "Georgetown would have been a shoe-in in 20 years ago" and three other schools are in.  I think this guy volume tweets what he hears through telephone game and hopes something sticks.

Doesn't sound promising though.

He was pretty sure a decade ago the ACC was dissolving and the Big XII was going to get Clemson, FSU and others.

[dgies9156]

I also think this is likely, but I won't believe it until I see it.

The problem is that of the teams you listed there aren't enough votes to blow up the ACC.  Notre Dame + Virginia (Big 10) and UNC, FSU, Miami, Clemson (SEC) is only 6 votes.  The real movement will happen when someone realizes that to get those 6, they will need to also offer 2 of NC State, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Syracuse, or Pitt a spot in the Big 10 or SEC.  I think NC State could make sense as a consolation prize to NC, ditto Virginia Tech for Virginia.  And I still think Georgia Tech might offer the academics and market that the Big 10 desires.

Duke, Wake, BC are screwed.  Some of Louisville, Cuse, Pitt, VT will also be left in the cold.

Brother SaveOD:

I agree with some of your thoughts. But, votes or no votes, if some rich alums come through to pay the exit fee, this will happen! If the SEC comes calling for the Carolina/Florida four, it's over. Those four will find the money!

[forgetful]

So...in other words, make them employees.  And the NCAA would not be able to unilaterally cap the stipend.  That's illegal.

No, according to federal law, graduate students are not considered employees, that is one of the reasons it is considered a stipend.

And if they were governed by a central organization, e.g. the NCAA, they could establish minimum and maximum stipends, in a similar way as the NIH do for anything funded by them. Essentially any organization that receives support, or funds (tournament payouts) must adhere to their minimum/maximums.

All, well supported by other legal decisions and pretty simple to implement.

It won't/wasn't done because of both optics (NIL was viewed as making sense), and because big schools wanted the opportunity to game the system in their favor and do it above board.

[mix it up]

In addition to your 2 excellent points (Herman will love that!), the admin seems to have "who gives a rat's ass?" attitude towards their sport teams. The only plus is a lucrative market, but if, like DP, a team is consistently bad, it waters down the market factor. Neither the Chicago Tribune nor the Washington Post seem interested enough to even post short stories about the games of the local BE teams, and I would guess the Boston Globe doesn't waste time on BC.

This! ^^

I have 3 kids that graduated BC and have spoken with Fr. Leahy SJ (former Marquette faculty and admin) often and he didn't say it directly, but athletics is something that he just wishes would go away.

[BLWarrior91]

Let's hope for the scenario where the ACC implodes and the Big East grabs Duke and Wake.  I love the double round robin format...keep it and limit your non-conference schedule to just a few games.  We can play Wisconsin and ND and then mostly a Big East schedule.  Let's hope that DePaul and Georgetown elevate their programs and everyone's SOS goes through the roof. 

[The Sultan]

No, according to federal law, graduate students are not considered employees, that is one of the reasons it is considered a stipend.

And if they were governed by a central organization, e.g. the NCAA, they could establish minimum and maximum stipends, in a similar way as the NIH do for anything funded by them. Essentially any organization that receives support, or funds (tournament payouts) must adhere to their minimum/maximums.

The NCAA is a non-governmental, membership organization.  The NIH is a federal government grant-making organization.  They are completely different in many respects.  EDIT: It is also my understanding that the NIH's limits to support graduate student stipends does not preclude the institution from paying them more - it just wouldn't be covered by the grant.

The NCAA once tried to limit coaches compensation, and it was overturned. Any attempt to limit "stipends" (which would essentially make them employees) would meet a similar fate.

[Dickthedribbler]

He's been wrong a lot through the years

Has the Philadelphia Inquirer or the Washington Post or the NY Post published anything on this in the last month. Those 3 usually have their ears pretty close to the ground when it comes to covering the Big East. Or has it been just one dork with a Twitter account??

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

4 days ago that dude tweeted that Georgetown and Nova were deep in talks to join the B12.  Now today he's saying "Georgetown would have been a shoe-in in 20 years ago" and three other schools are in.  I think this guy volume tweets what he hears through telephone game and hopes something sticks.

Doesn't sound promising though.

At UConn's The Boneyard message board they like to post his tweets like forever, pretty much to ridicule him because he rarely is correct on anything.

[Uncle Rico]

Has the Philadelphia Inquirer or the Washington Post or the NY Post published anything on this in the last month. Those 3 usually have their ears pretty close to the ground when it comes to covering the Big East. Or has it been just one dork with a Twitter account??

Not that I've seen.  Brett McMurphy of Action Network used to be the most plugged in guy on this stuff.  The Athletic would be the other most likely to have real info. 

[mileskishnish72]

This! ^^

I have 3 kids that graduated BC and have spoken with Fr. Leahy SJ (former Marquette faculty and admin) often and he didn't say it directly, but athletics is something that he just wishes would go away.

He must be channeling his Fr. Swords at the Cross, who refused to join the BE when it was formed. Where did that decision get them? To irrelevance.

[PBRme]

I also think this is likely, but I won't believe it until I see it.

The problem is that of the teams you listed there aren't enough votes to blow up the ACC.  Notre Dame + Virginia (Big 10) and UNC, FSU, Miami, Clemson (SEC) is only 6 votes.  The real movement will happen when someone realizes that to get those 6, they will need to also offer 2 of NC State, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Syracuse, or Pitt a spot in the Big 10 or SEC.  I think NC State could make sense as a consolation prize to NC, ditto Virginia Tech for Virginia.  And I still think Georgia Tech might offer the academics and market that the Big 10 desires.

Duke, Wake, BC are screwed.  Some of Louisville, Cuse, Pitt, VT will also be left in the cold.

I think I read that the Virginia schools are tied together by state law on future conference changes

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think I read that the Virginia schools are tied together by state law on future conference changes

So were the Oklahoma schools. Whoops

[Ellenson Guerrero]

It sounds way more likely that the Big 12 is eying up the PAC 12 than the Big East. That's what I would do, destroy a football competitor with more natural geographic options.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-readies-to-pounce-on-four-corners-schools-as-doubt-creeps-in-about-pac-12s-viability/

[muwarrior69]

Let's hope for the scenario where the ACC implodes and the Big East grabs Duke and Wake.  I love the double round robin format...keep it and limit your non-conference schedule to just a few games.  We can play Wisconsin and ND and then mostly a Big East schedule.  Let's hope that DePaul and Georgetown elevate their programs and everyone's SOS goes through the roof.

The only way Duke goes to the Big East is if the B1G, SEC and Big12 give them the cold shoulder. Duke Football is no worse than Rutgers or Kansas.

https://www.si.com/college/2022/07/14/power-5-desirability-rankings-sec-big-ten-acc

[Scoop Snoop]

I think I read that the Virginia schools are tied together by state law on future conference changes

Not sure about that. Years ago, only UVA was in the ACC. Possible that things have changed, but I have not heard anything like that.

[The Sultan]

The only way Duke goes to the Big East is if the B1G, SEC and Big12 give them the cold shoulder. Duke Football is no worse than Rutgers or Kansas.

Again, there is a difference between inviting a new member with a weak football program and dealing with one already in your conference.

[muwarrior69]

Again, there is a difference between inviting a new member with a weak football program and dealing with one already in your conference.

...but the B12 is also looking at their basketball programs as well. If there were feelers out there for Gonzaga, Duke is a no brainer.

[The Sultan]

...but the B12 is also looking at their basketball programs as well. If there were feelers out there for Gonzaga, Duke is a no brainer.

You don't have to split football money with the Zags. You do with Duke. And football money is at least ten times more valuable. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The only way Duke goes to the Big East is if the B1G, SEC and Big12 give them the cold shoulder. Duke Football is no worse than Rutgers or Kansas.

https://www.si.com/college/2022/07/14/power-5-desirability-rankings-sec-big-ten-acc

You are not wrong that the only way the Big East would have a shot at Duke or any of the ACC programs who could theoretically be left behind is if the B1G, SEC, and Big 12 don't pick them up. But in order for them to do that, they need to be worth cutting the pie another slice. I don't think it's a guarantee that the B12 would want to split their football money with Duke even with their basketball program. But I also don't think the opposite is a guarantee either.

I believe that the SEC/B1G will eventually bloat to 24 teams each. I think the B12 will take Arizona, Arizona St, Utah, and Colorado eventually putting them at 16. Will the Big 12 stand pat or will they add 2-8 teams? I don't know.

I mentioned this before, but the B12 commissioner mentioned something recently about rethinking how they package football and basketball media rights. I have no idea what he's thinking or if it's feasible but I think it bears monitoring. I could see them leaning into their basketball product even thought football is more valuable. If they enter the market for basketball only schools....that would be very bad for the Big East.

[SaveOD238]

If they enter the market for basketball only schools....that would be very bad for the Big East.

Which could be very good (joining the Big XII) or very bad (getting left behind with Providence, DePaul, and Butler) for Marquette