Ryder Cup

[MuggsyB]

It is important to be at least somewhat patriotic and have pride in what your country stands for.  It is terrible to be nationalistic.

This is nonsense.  Unless you define nationalism only as white supremacy.

[Lennys Tap]

I root for people I enjoy watching compete. I'm genuinely surprised you're making this a test of patriotism, Tony.

I don't know how many times people on this board have said they root for the name on the front of the jersey, not the one on the back. Joey Hauser, Theo John, Ryan Braun (pick any name) may not be a player they particularly care for, but as long as they have Marquette, Milwaukee or another name we love on the front of their jersey we cheer for them. When Isner plays Nadal in the Australian Open, their is no name on the front of the jersey. Same thing when Tiger or Reed are tied with Ian Poulter on the 18th tee at Augusta. Where the players call home is beside the point - it's all about themselves as individuals. But when Isner, Woods or Reed have USA on the front of their jersey it's different - assuming you love the USA like you love Marquette, Milwaukee or wherever. Why people are resistant to this logic escapes me.

[Uncle Rico]

Because it's important to be nationalistic and proud of your country despite recent debacles.  It's a team representing the USA.  There's far too much Anti-Americanism, especially in light of the myriad of assheads across the globe.

Being American gives me a chance to choose who I cheer for or against

[tower912]

Sorry, Muggsy.   I haven't done jingoism for a long, long time.   

[The Sultan]

This is nonsense.  Unless you define nationalism only as white supremacy.

Patriotic: "having or expressing devotion to and vigorous support for one's country."

Nationalistic: "having or expressing strong identification with one's own nation and vigorous support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations."

At best I am somewhat patriotic.  I am not nationalistic in the least.

[The Sultan]

Patriotic: "having or expressing devotion to and vigorous support for one's country."

Nationalistic: "having or expressing strong identification with one's own nation and vigorous support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations."

At best I am somewhat patriotic.  I am not nationalistic in the least.

That being said, I will root for the USA in team sporting events (such as the Ryder Cup, Team USA basketball, etc.) as a default.  But all of these things are well down on my level of fandom.  My college and professional rooting interests carry more weight. 

And if I were invested enough into golf that a couple of the players on the European team were my favorites, I might root for them as well.  Like if Giannis were playing for Team Greece in the Olympics, I could see myself rooting for them.

[MuggsyB]

That being said, I will root for the USA in team sporting events (such as the Ryder Cup, Team USA basketball, etc.) as a default.  But all of these things are well down on my level of fandom.  My college and professional rooting interests carry more weight. 

And if I were invested enough into golf that a couple of the players on the European team were my favorites, I might root for them as well.  Like if Giannis were playing for Team Greece in the Olympics, I could see myself rooting for them.

That last sentence is not accurate in your definition of nationalism.   Whether Wikipedia or wherever you got it says so or not.  You can act in your self-interest and it not be to the detriment of other nations.  And by the way that definition intimates that acting to the detriment of certain nations is evil or wrong 100% of the time and that's not at all the case in the annals of history.

[The Sultan]

That last sentence is not accurate in your definition of nationalism.   Whether Wikipedia or wherever you got it says so or not.  You can act in your self-interest and it not be to the detriment of other nations.  And by the way that definition intimates that acting to the detriment of certain nations is evil or wrong 100% of the time and that's not at all the case in the annals of history.

It is literally the dictionary definition. 

[MuggsyB]

It is literally the dictionary definition.

That's not accurate. You don't think one can be nationalistic without it being to the detriment of other nations?  One of my best friends is Icelandic.  He insists he lives in the best country in the world for a variety of reasons.  He would describe himself as nationalistic and believes strongly in the greatness of his country and the values they believe in.  They don't have a standing army FWIW.  How exactly is this a detriment to other nations? 

[The Sultan]

That's not accurate. You don't think one can be nationalistic without it being to the detriment of other nations?  One of my best friends is Icelandic.  He insists he lives in the best country in the world for a variety of reasons.  He would describe himself as nationalistic and believes strongly in the greatness of his country and the values they believe in.  They don't have a standing army FWIW.  How exactly is this a detriment to other nations? 

Just because he is Icelandic, that doesn't mean he sets to determine the definition of a word.

[MuggsyB]

Just because he is Icelandic, that doesn't mean he sets to determine the definition of a word.

I see.  You're Icelandaphobic and have no retort because it's literally impossible to suggest that his nationalistic beliefs are threatening to other nations.  My issue with this definition is the insinuation a) that in all cases being nationalistic connotes self-interest at the peril of other nations and b) that all governments representing their people have equal values.  Meaning if you do anything remotely nationalistic, and it stops genocide or ruthless tyranny, because it's "to the detriment" of another country, it's automatically wrong.  That's simply not true and history is replete with example after example after example where this is the case.  If people had listened to Churchill much earlier, an admitted nationalist, 100 million lives would have probably been saved. 

[Herman Cain]

American professional golfers are not very likable?

Collin? Little flashes of personality.
DJ? Nothing here.
Bryson? A lot going on here, can't shut up.
Brooks? Thinks he's a real athlete, tries really, really hard to be the cool golfer.
JT? Preppy Titleist boy that still uses homophobic slurs.
Cantlay? Slowest player on tour, but a killer.
Jordan? Electrifying.
Big Tone? Probably the most gifted talent, struggles to figure it out.
Xander? Loves limited field events.
Harris? Everyday killer that uses every sponsorship inch on his polo.
Berger? Another killer, he's going to get into so many asses.
Scheffler? Create a player from UT.

I understand why Kevin Na was not picked for the US.

However , I thought he would add a bit of levity and quirky personality to the US team . Not to mention a very good putter and short game .  Thought he would be good TV.

[Lennys Tap]

Being American gives me a chance to choose who I cheer for or against

Of course you have that right. And much, much more. Among them, you have the right to despise America and leave anytime. Many threaten to if an election goes against their preferred candidate. Very few do. I wonder why that is.

[MU82]

I don't know how many times people on this board have said they root for the name on the front of the jersey, not the one on the back. Joey Hauser, Theo John, Ryan Braun (pick any name) may not be a player they particularly care for, but as long as they have Marquette, Milwaukee or another name we love on the front of their jersey we cheer for them. When Isner plays Nadal in the Australian Open, their is no name on the front of the jersey. Same thing when Tiger or Reed are tied with Ian Poulter on the 18th tee at Augusta. Where the players call home is beside the point - it's all about themselves as individuals. But when Isner, Woods or Reed have USA on the front of their jersey it's different - assuming you love the USA like you love Marquette, Milwaukee or wherever. Why people are resistant to this logic escapes me.

It doesn't matter to me what "people on this board have said," Tony. I'll root for who I want to root for.

The fact that some people here think those who don't automatically root for every American in any international competition means they somehow are unpatriotic ... that's pretty funny.

As an aside ...

DeChambeau says his prep for some dopey long-drive competition is "wrecking" his hands, so obviously he's not all-in on the U.S. Ryder Cup team. And if one of the damn players isn't all-in, why should anybody who isn't on the team be all-in?

[MuggsyB]

It doesn't matter to me what "people on this board have said," Tony. I'll root for who I want to root for.

The fact that some people here think those who don't automatically root for every American in any international competition means they somehow are unpatriotic ... that's pretty funny.

As an aside ...

DeChambeau says his prep for some dopey long-drive competition is "wrecking" his hands, so obviously he's not all-in on the U.S. Ryder Cup team. And if one of the damn players isn't all-in, why should anybody who isn't on the team be all-in?

Absurd comments by De Charcuterie and moronic he is competing in the long-drive.

[🏀]

I understand why Kevin Na was not picked for the US.

However , I thought he would add a bit of levity and quirky personality to the US team . Not to mention a very good putter and short game .  Thought he would be good TV.

Sheesh, I don't hate this take. I want to hate it, but I cannot.

[Lennys Tap]

It doesn't matter to me what "people on this board have said," Tony. I'll root for who I want to root for.

The fact that some people here think those who don't automatically root for every American in any international competition means they somehow are unpatriotic ... that's pretty funny.

Mike

Of course you can root for or against any team you choose.

I root for Marquette, the White Sox and the USA because I prefer them to their opponents.

If we agree on Marquette but you prefer the Red Sox and China to the White Sox and the USA that's OK with me.

[MU82]

Mike

Of course you can root for or against any team you choose.

I root for Marquette, the White Sox and the USA because I prefer them to their opponents.

If we agree on Marquette but you prefer the Red Sox and China to the White Sox and the USA that's OK with me.

Phew! I dodged a bullet there. I'd hate to get on your bad side -- especially over such a silly subject.

I definitely have never rooted for the Red Sox, as I grew up a Yankee fan (though I haven't really rooted for the Yankees for some time, either.)

Not sure I've ever rooted for China over the USA in an international competition, but I did get to watch Yao Ming work out for NBA GMs at Loyola's Gentile Center (of all places) in 2002. I believe the guard the NBA brought in to pass the ball to Yao during the workout was none other than Cordell Henry.

We Are Marquette!

[The Sultan]

I see.  You're Icelandaphobic and have no retort because it's literally impossible to suggest that his nationalistic beliefs are threatening to other nations.  My issue with this definition is the insinuation a) that in all cases being nationalistic connotes self-interest at the peril of other nations and b) that all governments representing their people have equal values.  Meaning if you do anything remotely nationalistic, and it stops genocide or ruthless tyranny, because it's "to the detriment" of another country, it's automatically wrong.  That's simply not true and history is replete with example after example after example where this is the case.  If people had listened to Churchill much earlier, an admitted nationalist, 100 million lives would have probably been saved. 

Keep arguing with the dictionary Muggs.  I'm no nationalist and it would be better if less people were.

[Uncle Rico]

Of course you have that right. And much, much more. Among them, you have the right to despise America and leave anytime. Many threaten to if an election goes against their preferred candidate. Very few do. I wonder why that is.

Ok?

[tower912]

I quit automatically rooting for USA sports teams with the Dream team.   Detested Jordan that much.  And the team was made up of a lot of guys I had rooted against for their entire careers.   They were so much better that it affected my perception of the Olympics to this day.

Ryder Cup was about Tiger.   My dislike of him in his prime was such that it was worth it to me to watch his team lose.

I've mellowed with time in my opinions of both Jordan and Tiger so that I now wish them well.   

Third, when I don't have a strong rooting interest, I always root for the underdog.  I like the theater of the long shot.

[Lennys Tap]

I see.  You're Icelandaphobic and have no retort because it's literally impossible to suggest that his nationalistic beliefs are threatening to other nations.  My issue with this definition is the insinuation a) that in all cases being nationalistic connotes self-interest at the peril of other nations and b) that all governments representing their people have equal values.  Meaning if you do anything remotely nationalistic, and it stops genocide or ruthless tyranny, because it's "to the detriment" of another country, it's automatically wrong.  That's simply not true and history is replete with example after example after example where this is the case.  If people had listened to Churchill much earlier, an admitted nationalist, 100 million lives would have probably been saved.

You're correct. The definition of nationalism provided by FBM is not "literally THE definition of the word". Rather it is  honestly A definition - as in one of many. Depending on how it is used (and the bias of the user) the word has several definitions and  can carry a positive, negative or neutral connotation.

[jesmu84]

You're correct. The definition of nationalism provided by FBM is not "literally THE definition of the word". Rather it is  honestly A definition - as in one of many. Depending on how it is used (and the bias of the user) the word has several definitions and  can carry a positive, negative or neutral connotation.

Source?

[The Sultan]

You're correct. The definition of nationalism provided by FBM is not "literally THE definition of the word". Rather it is  honestly A definition - as in one of many. Depending on how it is used (and the bias of the user) the word has several definitions and  can carry a positive, negative or neutral connotation.

Actually I looked it up on a few sites, and they are pretty much all like this.  Here is Miriam-Webster's

: loyalty and devotion to a nation
especially : a sense of national consciousness (see CONSCIOUSNESS sense 1c) exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups

[The Lens]

I don't think I could ever root against a player competing on behalf of our country.  While I appreciate the effort of Lithuania, Slovenia or Spain, etc. in Hoops, I always in the end, want Team USA to win.

When it comes to the Ryder Cup, I just hope that some of the guys I like carry us and I don't have to deal with some of the a-holes I can't stand carrying the team.

Now in the French Open, it's definitely possible that I find a Euro more cheer worthy than a individual American.  But I don't think of those events as one where they are playing for their country.