2021-22 College Football thread

[The Sultan]

I will also say that this might be the most important hire in ND's history.  With the money being thrown around now, expansion of the playoffs and the consolidation that is continuing to happen into a few conferences, I think ND is going to find it harder and harder to stay independent UNLESS they continue to win.  And the ACC might not be the landing spot ND thought it could be 5-10 years ago.

Put it this way, Kelly is the best coach in their history, won a ton of games and made the playoffs twice, yet at best simply maintained their relevance on the national stage. 

[Pakuni]

Put it this way, Kelly is the best coach in their history, won a ton of games and made the playoffs twice, yet at best simply maintained their relevance on the national stage.

No.
ND's highest ranking in the final AP poll under Kelly was 4th. They finished unranked more often (four times) than they finished in the top 10 (three times). His record in major bowl games (playoffs or Jan. 1 group) is 0-4, losing by 28, 16, 27 and 17 points in those games. His winning percentage at ND is .739.

Let's compare him with Ara Parseghian. Four finishes in the AP top 3, including two national titles. 3-2 record in major bowl games. Two undefeated seasons. Zero seasons unranked. Nine seasons ranked in the top 10. Winning percentage at ND of .836.

Really, it's not close.
Other coaches with titles and better win percentages at ND: Dan Devine, Lou Holtz, Frank Leahy, Knute Rockne*.

* = pre AP final poll

[The Sultan]

Ara last coached in 1974.  A completely different era of college football.  But I can amend my statement to say the best coach since Holtz or the best coach of the BCS / Playoff era.

[Pakuni]

Ara last coached in 1974.  A completely different era of college football.  But I can amend my statement to say the best coach since Holtz or the best coach of the BCS / Playoff era.

That's fine. Not exactly a murderer's row of coaching hires post-Holtz.
But when talking about best coach in a program's history, you can't punish/dismiss a coach because he coached in a different era. You can only coach during the era in which you're living.

[Pakuni]

VaTech reportedly hiring Penn State DC Brent Pry.
Didn't see that coming. Guess they love guys named Brent in Blacksburg.

[Hards Alumni]

I'm absolutely stunned that:

1) Notre Dame would somehow let someone with the success of Brian Kelly get away.

2) That Coach Kelly would somehow think LSU is a better situation than Notre Dame. It ain't!

Look, winning in the SEC may mean more, but Kelly would be working for a fan base more entitled than Domers, with less reason to be so. If he thinks the Domers have high expectations, wait until he meets the Cajuns. They make Domer fans look disinterested.

If Coach O can't make it at LSU, nobody can.

You're living in the same fantasy world as a lot of ND fans.  LSU is a better job, plus he's getting paid.

ND and Indiana (basketball) think they're more important than they currently are.

[MU82]

I will also say that this might be the most important hire in ND's history.  With the money being thrown around now, expansion of the playoffs and the consolidation that is continuing to happen into a few conferences, I think ND is going to find it harder and harder to stay independent UNLESS they continue to win.  And the ACC might not be the landing spot ND thought it could be 5-10 years ago.

Put it this way, Kelly is the best coach in their history, won a ton of games and made the playoffs twice, yet at best simply maintained their relevance on the national stage.

Every time ND goes on a coaching search, it seems at the time like it's their most important hire ever ... but I do get what you're saying by framing it in the current situation in college football.

But couldn't expanded playoffs actually reinforce ND staying independent, especially if it goes to 16 teams? It's hard to imagine a 1-loss or even 2-loss ND team not going to the playoffs most years in a 16-team format, and a 1-loss ND team in an 8-team format also would figure to get in most years; this year's ND team is meh and it would have easily been included in an 8-team playoff.

And thanks for amending your statement about Kelly being ND's best coach ever ... because I'd say it's difficult bordering on impossible to argue that.

[The Sultan]

That's fine. Not exactly a murderer's row of coaching hires post-Holtz.
But when talking about best coach in a program's history, you can't punish/dismiss a coach because he coached in a different era. You can only coach during the era in which you're living.

We are talking opinions here, so I can most definitely dismiss a coaches performance because he coached in a different era.  You may not agree and that's fine.

[The Sultan]

Every time ND goes on a coaching search, it seems at the time like it's their most important hire ever ... but I do get what you're saying by framing it in the current situation in college football.

But couldn't expanded playoffs actually reinforce ND staying independent, especially if it goes to 16 teams? It's hard to imagine a 1-loss or even 2-loss ND team not going to the playoffs most years in a 16-team format, and a 1-loss ND team in an 8-team format also would figure to get in most years; this year's ND team is meh and it would have easily been included in an 8-team playoff.

And thanks for amending your statement about Kelly being ND's best coach ever ... because I'd say it's difficult bordering on impossible to argue that.

The problem with an expanded playoff to 12 teams is that sure, ND may have an easier chance to get in, but it also means that the bowls become an even less of a consolation prize.  Win and they are fine.  Don't win, and they are stuck at the Pinstripe Bowl.

[Pakuni]

We are talking opinions here, so I can most definitely dismiss a coaches performance because he coached in a different era.  You may not agree and that's fine.

Sure, and I can have the opinion that Tom Crean is the best coach in Marquette basketball history, and Al McGuire doesn't really count because different era.
But, as with Kelly being the best football coach in ND history, the objective facts - wins, rankings, titles - don't support the opinion.

[MU82]

The problem with an expanded playoff to 12 teams is that sure, ND may have an easier chance to get in, but it also means that the bowls become an even less of a consolation prize.  Win and they are fine.  Don't win, and they are stuck at the Pinstripe Bowl.

OK.

[LAZER]

The problem with an expanded playoff to 12 teams is that sure, ND may have an easier chance to get in, but it also means that the bowls become an even less of a consolation prize.  Win and they are fine.  Don't win, and they are stuck at the Pinstripe Bowl.

What's the logic on a 12 team playoff vs 16? I've read about the 12 team playoff a bunch and don't understand why they wouldn't just go to 16.

[Uncle Rico]

What's the logic on a 12 team playoff vs 16? I've read about the 12 team playoff a bunch and don't understand why they wouldn't just go to 16.

Because the Rose Bowl is the granddaddy

[Mr. Nielsen]

What's the logic on a 12 team playoff vs 16? I've read about the 12 team playoff a bunch and don't understand why they wouldn't just go to 16.

I like 12 better. 16 waters crap down. Give the top four byes.

[LAZER]

Because the Rose Bowl is the granddaddy

How does this impact 12 vs 16?

[Uncle Rico]

How does this impact 12 vs 16?

Gotta have the Rose Bowl mean something

[LAZER]

I like 12 better. 16 waters crap down. Give the top four byes.

Is there really much of difference between the #12 and #16 team? If you're concerned about watering it down, why not go with an 8 team playoff?

[LAZER]

Gotta have the Rose Bowl mean something

I understand that premise (which is absurd how much pull the Rose Bowl has in NCAA football), but does 12 vs 16 really fix that?  It'll become a more irrelevant consolation either way.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Is there really much of difference between the #12 and #16 team? If you're concerned about watering it down, why not go with an 8 team playoff?

12 is better than 8.
Top 6 conference champs, 6 at large.

[Uncle Rico]

I understand that premise (which is absurd how much pull the Rose Bowl has in NCAA football), but does 12 vs 16 really fix that?  It'll become a more irrelevant consolation either way.

The Big 14 and Pac-12 went decades fighting a playoff because Rose Bowl.

[Warrior Code]

Just for kicks, I looked up what Charlie Weis was up to (not much). But I saw that ND signed him, in 2004, to a $2 million per year contract. Less than 20 years later, there are assistants making that much or more.

[LAZER]

The Big 14 and Pac-12 went decades fighting a playoff because Rose Bowl.

Understood.  Expanded playoffs will essentially make remaining bowl games the equivalent of the NIT...which is fine.  But that's also why I'd go with 16 teams.  First of all it's two more playoff games and more money, but it also keeps more schools in the hunt.

[Pakuni]

Just for kicks, I looked up what Charlie Weis was up to (not much). But I saw that ND signed him, in 2004, to a $2 million per year contract. Less than 20 years later, there are assistants making that much or more.

But paying players, or even allowing them to earn money off their likeness, will bankrupt college sports.

[The Sultan]

What's the logic on a 12 team playoff vs 16? I've read about the 12 team playoff a bunch and don't understand why they wouldn't just go to 16.

Because TV isn't going to televise 8 games on the first Saturday.  They would likely stagger four games on consecutive Saturdays, to bring 12 down to 8 and 8 down to 4, to maximize TV impact.

[LAZER]

Because TV isn't going to televise 8 games on the first Saturday.  They would likely stagger four games on consecutive Saturdays, to bring 12 down to 8 and 8 down to 4, to maximize TV impact.

Got it, this makes sense.  Although 8 games on Saturday would be awesome.