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Author Topic: 2021-22 College Football thread  (Read 14619 times)

Pakuni

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2021-22 College Football thread
« on: June 10, 2021, 01:25:42 PM »
Supposed to be a recommendation coming today to expand the playoff.

tower912

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« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 01:36:38 PM by tower912 »
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Mr. Nielsen

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2021, 03:05:59 PM »
Supposed to be a recommendation coming today to expand the playoff.

12 teams. Top 6 conference champs.

Q-Finals on NYD
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tower912

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2021, 03:10:30 PM »
Cool.   Inevitable.    Money to be made.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2021, 03:25:58 PM »
12 teams. Top 6 conference champs.

Q-Finals on NYD


Four quarterfinal games on NYD would be awesome. 
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Mr. Nielsen

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2021, 03:41:14 PM »

Four quarterfinal games on NYD would be awesome.

Like the old days!

Yet, I worry about the semi's and title game in mid and late January. Talk is the semi's will not be a doubleheader. What day could they play. NFL has Sat/Sun on lockdown for the playoffs.
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Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2021, 03:51:56 PM »
Like the old days!

Yet, I worry about the semi's and title game in mid and late January. Talk is the semi's will not be a doubleheader. What day could they play. NFL has Sat/Sun on lockdown for the playoffs.


So if you use this year as an example, January 1 is a Saturday.  Sunday, January 9 is the last NFL week and they don't schedule Saturday games the last week of the season, so you can play the semis on Saturday, January 8.

Then have the championship on a Monday night like always.
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TAMU Eagle

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2021, 04:09:19 PM »
12 teams. Top 6 conference champs.

Q-Finals on NYD

Excellent news. I might actually become a college football fan now.
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Billy Hoyle

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2021, 05:23:44 PM »
Supposed to be a recommendation coming today to expand the playoff.

maybe some games will be competitive now.

Eight seems ideal, but there's money to be made, so it will be 12 with four blowouts instead of two.
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Mr. Nielsen

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2021, 07:52:43 PM »

So if you use this year as an example, January 1 is a Saturday.  Sunday, January 9 is the last NFL week and they don't schedule Saturday games the last week of the season, so you can play the semis on Saturday, January 8.

Then have the championship on a Monday night like always.

The new NFL TV contract adds two Saturday games will take place during the final week of the regular season and will showcase matchups with playoff implications. Both of those games will be simulcast on ABC and ESPN.

I'm thinking the semi's will be a weeknight.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 08:13:47 PM by Mr. Nielsen »
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MU82

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2021, 10:13:23 PM »
They claim they care about the health and safety of players, but now the championship-game participants would have to play 15 or 16 games - the equivalent of an NFL season?

First, have an 11-game max regular season.

Second, no conference championship games, as they are not necessary at all with a true playoff system.

Third, make it 8 teams, not 12.

Or at least be honest and admit that you don’t give a rat’s rump about the indentured servants.
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Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2021, 07:43:09 AM »
They claim they care about the health and safety of players, but now the championship-game participants would have to play 15 or 16 games - the equivalent of an NFL season?

First, have an 11-game max regular season.

Second, no conference championship games, as they are not necessary at all with a true playoff system.

Third, make it 8 teams, not 12.

Or at least be honest and admit that you don’t give a rat’s rump about the indentured servants.

Teams that go deep into the D2 and D3 playoffs play 15 games over a shorter timeframe.  I don't recall any outrage over them in the past.

And its not the "equivalent of an NFL season."  The majority of NFL teams play 17 games minimum (versus 12 in the NCAAs) and playoff teams can then play up to four additional playoff games - so 21.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

MU82

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2021, 07:58:29 AM »
Teams that go deep into the D2 and D3 playoffs play 15 games over a shorter timeframe.  I don't recall any outrage over them in the past.

And its not the "equivalent of an NFL season."  The majority of NFL teams play 17 games minimum (versus 12 in the NCAAs) and playoff teams can then play up to four additional playoff games - so 21.

You're right about D2 and D3. Those seasons are too long, also.

So far in NFL history, the majority of teams did not play 17 games; this season, yes, they will. The pros who will play 20 or 21 games -- and even those who only play a few games before suffering season-ending injuries -- are compensated well for the risks they take.

I happen to think it's too much to ask of college kids -- it's my opinion -- and I also think the powers-that-be don't give a shyte about the health and safety of the unpaid employees who line everybody else's pockets.
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2021, 08:05:09 AM »
You're right about D2 and D3. Those seasons are too long, also.

So far in NFL history, the majority of teams did not play 17 games; this season, yes, they will. The pros who will play 20 or 21 games -- and even those who only play a few games before suffering season-ending injuries -- are compensated well for the risks they take.

A positively Chicosesque goalpost shift.  Well done.


I happen to think it's too much to ask of college kids -- it's my opinion -- and I also think the powers-that-be don't give a shyte about the health and safety of the unpaid employees who line everybody else's pockets.

I think you are by and large wrong that they don't give a shyte.  As usual, hyperbolic nonsense doesn't help your arguments.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

cheebs09

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2021, 08:09:12 AM »
The pros play preseason games too. That adds to the workload. I’m thinking the practice commitments are greater for pros as well.

Hards_Alumni

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2021, 11:18:33 AM »
You're right about D2 and D3. Those seasons are too long, also.

So far in NFL history, the majority of teams did not play 17 games; this season, yes, they will. The pros who will play 20 or 21 games -- and even those who only play a few games before suffering season-ending injuries -- are compensated well for the risks they take.

I happen to think it's too much to ask of college kids -- it's my opinion -- and I also think the powers-that-be don't give a shyte about the health and safety of the unpaid employees who line everybody else's pockets.

Why don't we just ask the kids if they want to play more games instead of pretending to know what they want.

I can promise you, that players on National Championship contenders will want to play the extra games if they have a shot to win it all.

MU82

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2021, 11:52:42 AM »
Why don't we just ask the kids if they want to play more games instead of pretending to know what they want.

They'll play whatever their masters tell them to.

I think you are by and large wrong that they don't give a shyte. 

And I think you are by and large wrong that they do.

What we all know they really give a shyte about is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ... but if it's central to your argument that they really care deeply about the welfare of their unpaid employees, knock yourself out!
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

JWags85

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2021, 12:58:15 PM »
They'll play whatever their masters tell them to.

Oh good, just what this thread needed.  Some unnecessary and incendiary dog whistling.

More and more players sit out bowl games.  And we saw players sit out the COVID year.  Thats not the same as an expanded playoff.  They would be better off sitting out games against FCS Northwest early in the season than conference championships or playoffs if players were fearful about safety over titles.

Trying to wedge in a "pay the players argument" in a situation that would open the National Championship up to more contenders every year is stupid.  Especially since every game added would mean something.  Its not like we are talking about another 5 meaningless bowl games.

MUBurrow

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2021, 01:29:32 PM »
All slippery slope arguments are slippery slopes, but the players are suffering from a lack of represenation here.  Sure the D2 and D3 seasons may already be longer.  But when the NFL extended its season, it did so at the cost of preseason games.  Here, top teams are getting booked into additional games with no additional benefit.  The fact that the games "mean something" now is a problem in that now players really can't sit out the bowl games if their team is ranked #12 and the game now "means something." 

I don't think its out of bounds to say that if you want to extend the playoff, then each individual player's maximum number of games stays capped at 15 or whatever.  That way if Clemson really wants to schedule Troy in the first week of the year, fine, but they better make sure if they want to play Trevor Lawrence in that game that the national championship wouldn't be his 18th game.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2021, 01:35:45 PM »
All slippery slope arguments are slippery slopes, but the players are suffering from a lack of represenation here.  Sure the D2 and D3 seasons may already be longer.  But when the NFL extended its season, it did so at the cost of preseason games.  Here, top teams are getting booked into additional games with no additional benefit.  The fact that the games "mean something" now is a problem in that now players really can't sit out the bowl games if their team is ranked #12 and the game now "means something." 

I don't think its out of bounds to say that if you want to extend the playoff, then each individual player's maximum number of games stays capped at 15 or whatever.  That way if Clemson really wants to schedule Troy in the first week of the year, fine, but they better make sure if they want to play Trevor Lawrence in that game that the national championship wouldn't be his 18th game.


Nobody would play 18 games. 

Most would continue to play 12 (no bowl) or 13 (bowl).

A few would play 14 with a conference championship game, a bowl and/or a first round playoff appearance.

Only four would play 15 or 16.

In reality this will only impact four teams playing one or two additional games.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2021, 01:38:49 PM by Fluffy Blue Monster »
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JWags85

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2021, 01:49:40 PM »
Here, top teams are getting booked into additional games with no additional benefit.  The fact that the games "mean something" now is a problem in that now players really can't sit out the bowl games if their team is ranked #12 and the game now "means something." 

I don’t see how there is no additional benefit.  Suddenly a slip up at BC or Cal or Mississippi St in October/Nov no longer ends your season.  And save for a unique situation or two, the teams that would be in the running for the expanded playoff would normally be in New Years Day bowls. And those are marquee games players wouldn’t be skipping anyways.  The year CMC skipped, they were in the Sun Bowl. That’s one of the worthless bowls.  That’s not featuring teams that would be in play.

And FWIW, I’m fully in support of NLI and other player compensation models.  I’m not of the “they get scholarships, shut up and play”.  But these guys are still competitors and gamers. There is benefit for the schools and networks with more playoffs, of course.  But let’s not act like the guys shown crying on the sidelines every year after losing big games near the end of their career are thinking “oh no, I need to play another couple games” instead of being thrilled with the chance to stay in the title race.

MUBurrow

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2021, 02:03:56 PM »
In reality this will only impact four teams playing one or two additional games.

Sure, but there is a frog in a pot of boiling water element here.  And again, my issue is lack of representation.  If someone were representing the players interests here, and they agree to it, fine.  But they aren't and so there is no offsetting gain to the players each time this happens.

I don’t see how there is no additional benefit...
And FWIW, I’m fully in support of NLI and other player compensation models.  I’m not of the “they get scholarships, shut up and play”.  But these guys are still competitors and gamers. There is benefit for the schools and networks with more playoffs, of course.  But let’s not act like the guys shown crying on the sidelines every year after losing big games near the end of their career are thinking “oh no, I need to play another couple games” instead of being thrilled with the chance to stay in the title race.

I agree about the passion these guys have for the game.  But to add games that will gross millions and millions of dollars, you gotta pay the players in something other than passion for their extra trouble.  Pointing to their love of the game and the value of scholarships is how we got to this joke of amateurism in the first place, and I'm concerned pointing to the competitive benefit sort of doubles down on that.

MU82

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2021, 03:04:39 PM »
OK, apologies for some of the language I've used that bothers some folks. I'll try to tone it down ...

First, can't we all agree that if the playoff is expanded to 12 teams, conference championship games absolutely should go? One of the big arguments for them was that they served as "de facto playoff games." Well, we'll no longer need de facto playoff games; we'll have actual playoff games -- 4 rounds of 'em!

Let the body of work -- the regular season -- decide the playoff teams and the seeding.

College football's powers-that-be argued for decades that a playoff wasn't necessary and that it only would water down the importance of the regular season. Now, they are embracing a watering down. And let's please be honest as to the one and only reason they are embracing it: $$$$$$$$$.

So that's one less game right there if the powers-that-be will choose what's good for the athletes over the $$$$$$$$. But I'm pretty sure they won't. And I'm sorry ... IMHO that's bad, especially with all the lip service the bigwigs give to the health and safety of the "student-athletes." Others obviously are free to disagree.
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

cheebs09

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2021, 03:09:36 PM »
How would you determine conference champion in a conference with 2 divisions. The Big Ten as an example where one division is vastly superior to the other.

Not to mention the money the schools would be passing up.

PGsHeroes32

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Re: 2021-22 College Football thread
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2021, 03:38:22 PM »
OK, apologies for some of the language I've used that bothers some folks. I'll try to tone it down ...

First, can't we all agree that if the playoff is expanded to 12 teams, conference championship games absolutely should go? One of the big arguments for them was that they served as "de facto playoff games." Well, we'll no longer need de facto playoff games; we'll have actual playoff games -- 4 rounds of 'em!

Let the body of work -- the regular season -- decide the playoff teams and the seeding.

College football's powers-that-be argued for decades that a playoff wasn't necessary and that it only would water down the importance of the regular season. Now, they are embracing a watering down. And let's please be honest as to the one and only reason they are embracing it: $$$$$$$$$.

So that's one less game right there if the powers-that-be will choose what's good for the athletes over the $$$$$$$$. But I'm pretty sure they won't. And I'm sorry ... IMHO that's bad, especially with all the lip service the bigwigs give to the health and safety of the "student-athletes." Others obviously are free to disagree.

Based off the proposal, conference championships still greatly matter.

You can only get 1 of the 4 byes by being a conference champion. Being one of the 6 best champions is what gets you an automatic ticket.

Also, it provides us all a chance to point at laugh at Notre Dame. Because under this proposal they could literally be 13-0 with 7 top 5 wins and still not be allowed to have a bye.
Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

 

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