Ability to attend games in-person next season

[GooooMarquette]

In the end of the day, I hope that I don't have to worry about this and our legislation passes something preventing this.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/01/two-gop-lawmakers-seek-bar-vaccine-passports-wisconsin/4840575001/

Looks like it's already been started.

So you don't want big, bad gubmint butting into your business for public health purposes, but you're ok with gubmint stepping in and telling individual businesses what they can and can't do to promote an environment they feel is appropriate for their businesses?

And now you're backtracking on what you said before about being OK if individual bars require it.

Nice.

[WolfganghisKhan]

So you don't want big, bad gubmint butting into your business for public health purposes, but you're ok with gubmint stepping in and telling individual businesses what they can and can't do to promote an environment they feel is appropriate for their businesses?

Nice.

It's a tricky issue when it comes to health matters. It's not black and white.

[GooooMarquette]

It's a tricky issue when it comes to health matters. It's not black and white.

Earlier you said you'd be OK if a local bar required proof of vaccination.

Now you say you hope the legislature prevents even a local business from doing that.

Which is it?

[WolfganghisKhan]

Earlier you said you'd be OK if a local bar required proof of vaccination.

Now you say you hope the legislature prevents even a local business from doing that.

Which is it?

It's tough. I go back and forth on it right now. I'm usually one for free enterprise, but this challenges that for me. I don't like discrimination based on health records and thinks it sets a bad precedence.

[TallTitan34]

Page 11.  Still haven't seen a good reason to not get vaccinated.

[WolfganghisKhan]

Page 11.  Still haven't seen a good reason to not get vaccinated.

We've moved passed that part and the people still talking are all pro-vax.

Edit: thanks for helping me kill a couple hours. Go mubb.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Look, I think what brother Wolf is getting at is that if you have to show your device or whatever the passport ends up being that has the ability for the government to be able to track your movements, your habits, etc.  And remember, you're volunteering to give this information.  It's one thing to have a corporation tracking where you are and what you're buying, etc... but it is entirely different when the government is involved.  Who is to say how they will use this new surveillance tool?  You're volunteering your location to them anytime that passport is scanned.  That information could be used in court to determine where you were and could make you a suspect in a crime you had nothing to do with.  The last thing we need in this country is more warrant-less tracking.

Now, having said all of that, the government can basically already track what anyone does.  But we need to make sure that the way they do that is legal.  The moment you volunteer that information all bets are off.

They don't need to have your vaccine passport scanned to know that you (or I guess more specifically your phone) were someplace. It's irrelevant.

[Scoop Snoop]

In my earlier post, I tried to focus specifically on proof of vaccination as a requirement for entry to public events and travel. That was because here it has become a generalized debate about all forms of privacy. I remain generally opposed to invasions of privacy and believe in a strict case by case approach when the rights of the individual are subjugated to the rights of the general population.

There should be a strong argument for requiring proof of vaccination and I believe that there is. It is simply this: those who refuse to be vaccinated are putting the health of others at risk by their presence in public. The vaccine is not 100% effective as it is and there are serious questions of the efficacy of the vaccines to mutant strains that develop. And let's not forget the strain placed on hospitals and health care providers, filled ICUs, etc.

A couple of questions for the vaccine opponents:

Do you agree or disagree that drivers who have been apprehended for DUI should have their driving rights suspended or restricted? Or is it the responsibility of sober drivers to take evasive actions?

Should an obviously sick child be sent to school? Should an obviously sick adult go to work anyway? Or is it the responsibility of others to steer clear of sick people?

Should a person who has been diagnosed with serious mental health problems be allowed to possess a gun?

All three of the above are directly related to the health and possibly the lives of others. At what point do you believe that the rights of the individuals in the above questions should be restricted?

[Hards Alumni]

They don't need to have your vaccine passport scanned to know that you (or I guess more specifically your phone) were someplace. It's irrelevant.

I covered that.  Volunteering that information to the government vs requiring a warrant for that information is important.  They can subpoena my phone records and locations, but I'd prefer that hoop for them to jump through to remain in place.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I also believe this is just going to cause more divide among the current sides and the last thing this country needs is more division.

Is this the new method to defend something one disagrees with? Make it all about division?

[MU82]

So by this rationale, anyone who had stage 2 cancer and died while having COVID shouldn't be counted as a COVID death, and oh nice...neither should anyone who is elderly since COVID has no link given their condition.  Interesting how when someone dies with COVID it counts as a COVID death even if they had several comorbidities, but when someone dies shortly after taking the vaccine, suddenly we need to move mountains to try to show that the vaccine was the primary cause.  Why isn't the same approach applied to both?  Also, the 2,000 number is something we'll probably disagree on trusting.  You may call Crowd unlucky.  It's possible it's all vastly underreported.  You can look up what's been reported on VAERS in terms of adverse reactions.  Last time I downloaded the data a few weeks ago it was 1,400 pages of reported issues (not all deaths to be clear).  We're not that far into people getting the vaccine and maybe it's just me but that's a lot of stuff reported, and is obviously not even including what hasn't been reported which who knows how much that is.

Look, I've tried to be courteous and simply explain my position.  Some of you have zero desire to rid all the divisiveness going on in the world and want to simply attack me, insist that I'm selfish, label me an anti-vaxer (for the record, I'm not an anti-vaxer...I'm anti THIS vaccine until there is more known about it), etc.  When I said earlier I wished the best for those who have received it, I meant it and still do.  I believe we are all in a crappy position and we should all start by respecting how crappy it is, and understand that we are all trying to navigate everything that is going on.  There is a lot of misinformation coming from ALL angles these days and it is difficult to sift through it.  I am not a fan of masks but I follow the rules, and if there are rules in place that say that I can't go to a sporting event until I get the vaccine, then I have a choice to make and I'm ok with that.  Wearing a mask and injecting something into my body that is permanent are two very different things though.

So if you really must know MY reasons, in addition to some that have already been stated, here you go:

It is under emergency use authorization (EUA).  To get this status they have to prove that NO other treatments are available.  However, doctors have been using Ivermectin, Hydroxycloroquine, vitamin D, vitamin C, zinc, quercetin, ozone therapy, etc. with success.  This is why the censorship is so harsh against any doctors who try to talk about other treatments.  They lose the EUA if there are other therapies.  Think of all the people that go into the hospital and survive COVID, they are being treated.

To get to the 95% effective rate they use relative risk instead of absolute risk.  This website explains it: https://www.healthnewsreview.org/toolkit/tips-for-understanding-studies/ absolute-vs-relative-risk/
If drug manufactures used absolute risk, no one would take their drugs.  It is really common for them to report relative risk, which is basically not significant when it comes to scientific methods.

There are no studies saying the vaccine will prevent COVID or transmission.

We have no idea the side effects of this injection, both short term and long term.

There are ingredients in the injection that have not been proven safe for human use.  There are also ingredients in a proprietary blend in the vaccines that are not being disclosed.  Polyethylene Glycol (PEG) in the mRNA vaccines is known to cause anaphylactic reactions, yet they put it in there.

Over 90% of the people dying from COVID have 4+ comorbidities.

The PCR test is completely flawed.  When else have we ever used PCR to diagnose a virus?  Look into the cycle count, it should be <35 and ideally <25 for accurate results, otherwise you are looking at debris and other dead viral particles that cannot be isolated.

There are no double blind randomized controlled clinical trials, the gold standard of research.  All the studies so far have been conducted by the drug manufacturers so there is bias.  No animal studies have been done either and I am not sure if there are any currently being done.

Does the survival rate of 99.6% for those <70 justify me getting this injection?

New research is emerging that it is probable the mRNA can reverse transcribe into our DNA under the right conditions.

No products with the primary ingredient mRNA have ever been FDA approved.

It affects both the innate and adaptive immune system.  Vaccines are given to stimulate the adaptive system so we really don't know the effects this will have on our innate system, which is our first line of defense.

Vaccine manufactures are not held liable for any adverse reactions.

If some of you want to continue to throw hate & shade my way, so be it.  Like with any major life decision, I am simply trying to make the most informed decision possible.  I'm not just some "tin foil idiot" or whatever word of the day MU82 likes to use from atop his righteous throne.  Maybe we can all learn to respect each other and understand that navigating this is challenging, and if that means I have to follow certain rules until I decide to get the vaccine or until I essentially wait it out, so be it.  Pardon me for not wanting to jump in line for a vaccine that is unlike any other ever developed.  Peace.

Thank you for your explanation. I believe you take great liberties with science and facts (or lack thereof of both) to justify your unwillingness to help America return to something close to "normal." You want all of the freedom but none of the (very minor) sacrifice. I'll step off my "righteous throne" to simply say, Have a nice day and We Are Marquette.

[The Sultan]

Ah when someone else disagrees, just attack them. Signs of a strong argument.

Other's have used logic.  You respond with foolishness.  You deserve to be treated as a fool.

[WolfganghisKhan]

Other's have used logic.  You respond with foolishness.  You deserve to be treated as a fool.

now name calling. Love it. Taking a page out of ole Donny's book. Going to call me fake news next?

[Shooter McGavin]

If anti-vaxers had to pay out of pocket for their hospital expenses and the money was legally withdrawn out of their paychecks, the amount of anti-vaxers would decline. 

This is a moronic argument that could be solved economically.  Too bad it can't be done.  I want these ding dongs to have their personal freedoms at their own expense.

[pbiflyer]

Telling someone I am vaccinated? I am reminded of the comedian commenting on the viagra commercial "In the event of an erection lasting four hours, tell your doctor. Hell, doctor? I'm telling everyone!"

[WolfganghisKhan]

Telling someone I am vaccinated? I am reminded of the comedian commenting on the viagra commercial "In the event of an erection lasting four hours, tell your doctor. Hell, doctor? I'm telling everyone!"

let's do obese people too!

[burger]

COVID passports.....100% if you have one...

100% vaccinated with Phizer after 5 weeks and feeling fine except a little nausea/dry heaves after the first......60 years old.....

Get vaccinated!!!

There is no political correctness about this issue.......There is "common sense" and "stupid".......

Been taking flu shots for 30 years......All you have to do is get it "bad" once......

[warriorchick]

A stranger rifles through my purse every time I go to an event at the Fiserv. I consider that a worse invasion of my privacy than having to prove that I am vaccinated.

[tower912]

Thank you, chick.  All other privacy arguments now rendered moot.

[Daniel]

There are so many people not getting vaccinated for one reason or another.   Without vaccinated-only attendees at the arena it will be a very difficult sell. 

Get vaccinated.  Had my double doses of Pfizer.  1.5 months past second.  All fine

[WolfganghisKhan]

A stranger rifles through my purse every time I go to an event at the Fiserv. I consider that a worse invasion of my privacy than having to prove that I am vaccinated.

"because it's already bad, it doesn't matter"

[MU82]

"because it's already bad, it doesn't matter"

"You want me to wear shoes and a shirt? Just because everybody else is wearing 'em, it doesn't mean I have to."

"You want to look through my carry-on bag? Sorry. Just because your tag says TSA, that doesn't give you the right."

"You want me to blow into that breathalizer just because it's 1 a.m. and I'm weaving all over the road? Sorry, I deserve my privacy."

"You have a search warrant? Sorry, you still can't come in just because a search warrant says you can. Freedom!"

[Babybluejeans]

The people who refuse the vaccine are relying on (a) misinformation; or (b) ~feelings~

Neither are facts.

[naginiF]

"because it's already bad, it doesn't matter"

"because it doesn't happen to me it couldn't be that bad"

[burger]

"because it doesn't happen to me it couldn't be that bad"

It doesn't hit home until you know someone who has died.....

Do we really all need to go there????

Trust me.....It sucks.....