Asian Americans

[Galway Eagle]

I’m not talking about medical care and paternity/maternity leave is not a consideration if you’re starting/running a business.  I’m talking strictly business opportunity situations.

There is a reason people with business/entrepreneurial aspirations come here.  Canada is often easier to migrate to, but not as business friendly. And Western Europe, forget about it. Maybe if you want a good stable office job with benefits, but not if you want to set out on your own.

I think as far as succes for entrepreneurs goes Medicare is a valid discussion. All it takes is one car accident on the way to a meeting, one fall off a ladder on a work site, etc and your dream here is set back ages compared to other nations. You're absolutely right I shouldn't have included maternity/paternity.

Again I agree with you that it's an easier path to success but it's much more easily ruined as well.

[jesmu84]

Personally, I'll take social security and high(er) taxes over business opportunity. Maybe that's because I'm just a middle class healthcare worker vs entrepreneur though.

[Spotcheck Billy]

What about other countries that have more people entering vs. exiting? Is the US still better or is that a tie?

I always say that when we have more people exiting the USA vs. entering the USA on a monthly basis than I would question if we were still the greatest country in the world. People risk their lives to enter the USA and smart, wealthy people with ability to move to a "better" country seldom move.

[Billy Hoyle]

Billy shouldn't act like a fragile white man so often then. And he shouldn't make stuff up just because he needs to fit a narrative. Kudos to you for coming to his defense, though.

"fragile." Sure. And you're supposed to be older than me.

My wife was told she shouldn't have pressed charges against the dude who assaulted her because what he did (punching her in the back of her head) was a result of "white supremacy." She was also told she only married me because she'd been forced into the "model minority myth" and that marrying a white guy was white supremacy making her try to be "white adjacent." No, these were not white people saying these things. She and her family are not wary of the people the Kendi's of the world say they should be scared of (it helps sell books though), and CNN admitted they squashed stories about attacks on Asian Americans because they didn't want to piss off BLM. This is what is actually going on outside of your sheltered existence.
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/wilfred-reilly/crime-against-asians-isnt-due-to-white-supremacy/

I seem to also remember you doubting the violence my city deals with nightly and trying to deflect blame to "boogaloos."

[Galway Eagle]

"fragile." Sure. And you're supposed to be older than me.

My wife was told she shouldn't have pressed charges against the dude who assaulted her because what he did (punching her in the back of her head) was a result of "white supremacy." She was also told she only married me because she'd been forced into the "model minority myth" and that marrying a white guy was white supremacy making her try to be "white adjacent." No, these were not white people saying these things. She and her family are not wary of the people the Kendi's of the world say they should be scared of (it helps sell books though), and CNN admitted they squashed stories about attacks on Asian Americans because they didn't want to piss off BLM. This is what is actually going on outside of your sheltered existence.
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/wilfred-reilly/crime-against-asians-isnt-due-to-white-supremacy/

I seem to also remember you doubting the violence my city deals with nightly and trying to deflect blame to "boogaloos."

Can you provide the CNN admitting this source? Because after scanning that article I didn't see a mention of them admitting to burying anything. Lots of interesting numbers though

[Pakuni]

Someone tell Billy that rocketsurgeon has hacked his account.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I don't hate America by any stretch.  But I don't think it's the greatest country in the world.  Finland gets high marks in a lot of rankings, but I wouldn't want to live there.

I think there has been a national mythos for a long time that the USA does everything better, and that we are some sort of model for what the rest of the world should aspire to be.  Are there a lot of awesome things about America?  Yes!  Do we sniff our own farts?  Oh hell yes.

Good dodge.  Didn't answer my question though.

[MU82]

"fragile." Sure. And you're supposed to be older than me.

My wife was told she shouldn't have pressed charges against the dude who assaulted her because what he did (punching her in the back of her head) was a result of "white supremacy." She was also told she only married me because she'd been forced into the "model minority myth" and that marrying a white guy was white supremacy making her try to be "white adjacent." No, these were not white people saying these things. She and her family are not wary of the people the Kendi's of the world say they should be scared of (it helps sell books though), and CNN admitted they squashed stories about attacks on Asian Americans because they didn't want to piss off BLM. This is what is actually going on outside of your sheltered existence.
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/wilfred-reilly/crime-against-asians-isnt-due-to-white-supremacy/

I seem to also remember you doubting the violence my city deals with nightly and trying to deflect blame to "boogaloos."

The dopes who told your wife those things were wrong. Very sorry she had to go through what she did, and I feel for her, you and your entire family.

The rest of it ... we'll save for another debate another time.

[Hards Alumni]

Good dodge.  Didn't answer my question though.

Zigs, there isn't a good answer.  Obviously, my family and friends are here.  I could easily live in more than a few countries around the world.  Canada is a wonderful place, Costa Rica and Panama are beautiful, and Europe is full of culture.  I've never been to Australia or New Zeeland, but they are objectively gorgeous and NZ especially lines up with my values.  Each place has its strengths and weaknesses.  The USA has a ton of strengths, but some glaring weaknesses as well.  I live here and I'm probably staying (for a while at least), but I've also looked into expat lifestyle around the world.  My original point is that too many Americans fall into the trap of thinking that the US does everything the best.  It's been pounded into us every day from when we were children... and a lot of Americans truly believe that America is the pinnacle and nothing could be better anywhere else.  That is why I said we sniff our own farts.

[Goose]

hards

Of course there other great places in the world but there is a reason why 99.9% of Americans chose not to move elsewhere. Many people use family as the biggest reason and I find that to be a poor excuse. People leave family behind, risk their lives to come America every hour of every day of the year.

Over the past year I have read a lot of posts on here that judge people, talk about white privilege and a ton of other big generalizations and I have stayed out of those discussions. That said, and I speak from true experience, that I find the whole expat experience to be one of the most arrogant and selfish lifestyles out there. The vast majority of expats, and I know a lot, often take advantage of their new found homes. Many look at as a visit to Epcot and seldom embrace their new home country. It becomes an adventure, something tell friends and family about and in many cases it is done for financial reasons.

There is no doubt there are exceptions to the rule and many do embrace their new home. Moving to a new country is a privilege that we as American's are able to do. You can pick up and move tomorrow, though you likely will not do so. Talk is cheap and many people risk their lives, leave their family and actually do pull the trigger to move elsewhere for a better life. I am not bashing you on this topic and only addressed you because of your post.

For the record, I completely admire anyone that makes a decision to move anywhere in the world if it is for the right reason. I do not find a junket to India for three years to make more money or go backbacking is moving out of the USA. It is either a nice financial gain or an adventure to tell your grandkids about down the road. Again, I literally am friends with, been friends with or have done business with hundreds of expats throughout SE Asia and I find most to be taking advantage of an opportunity presented to them. That is great, but not leaving the USA because they found paradise elsewhere.

[Galway Eagle]

Goose,

Just responding to your first paragraph here. There's plenty of countries where people do that. Refugees wash up on the shores in the mediterranean countries from the Middle East and Africa all the time. There's similar mass refugee exodus from Syria and other countries all the time. The 99.9 makes me wonder what rate the other compatible countries stay in their country.

I guess my point is if you come from a place where your backs against the wall it makes it easier to leave your family and friends than if you're in a stable spot so we shouldn't be comparing poor emigrants to your average American. We should be comparing your average English or French or German person to your average American.

[Hards Alumni]

hards

Of course there other great places in the world but there is a reason why 99.9% of Americans chose not to move elsewhere. Many people use family as the biggest reason and I find that to be a poor excuse. People leave family behind, risk their lives to come America every hour of every day of the year.

Over the past year I have read a lot of posts on here that judge people, talk about white privilege and a ton of other big generalizations and I have stayed out of those discussions. That said, and I speak from true experience, that I find the whole expat experience to be one of the most arrogant and selfish lifestyles out there. The vast majority of expats, and I know a lot, often take advantage of their new found homes. Many look at as a visit to Epcot and seldom embrace their new home country. It becomes an adventure, something tell friends and family about and in many cases it is done for financial reasons.

There is no doubt there are exceptions to the rule and many do embrace their new home. Moving to a new country is a privilege that we as American's are able to do. You can pick up and move tomorrow, though you likely will not do so. Talk is cheap and many people risk their lives, leave their family and actually do pull the trigger to move elsewhere for a better life. I am not bashing you on this topic and only addressed you because of your post.

For the record, I completely admire anyone that makes a decision to move anywhere in the world if it is for the right reason. I do not find a junket to India for three years to make more money or go backbacking is moving out of the USA. It is either a nice financial gain or an adventure to tell your grandkids about down the road. Again, I literally am friends with, been friends with or have done business with hundreds of expats throughout SE Asia and I find most to be taking advantage of an opportunity presented to them. That is great, but not leaving the USA because they found paradise elsewhere.

I don't disagree, but I would mention that Americans generally live comfortable lives so there isn't much motivation to emigrate.  You can say that family is a poor excuse, but for me it is the primary excuse.  If I choose to be an expat I plan to do it when I'm retired and my parents are gone.  I have no children nor do I anticipate any.  And in my defense, you don't really know me. But you may have noticed (or not since you probably don't read everything I write... and God help you if you do!) I value other people and their culture quite a bit.  When I travel, I do my best to read up about local culture and abide by their customs and practices.  Furthermore, I'm not talking about renouncing my American citizenship.  I'd be much more interested in dual citizenship for stability reasons.  I can't imagine growing old in the US year round, and my life goal is to not do that.

People immigrating to America typically have little to no upward mobility in their home country.  They're moving here for a chance at a brighter future.  But I'm sure you realize that people who are quite well off anywhere in the world have little desire to move from where they live.  Wealthy people move towards opportunity or away from repression, naturally.  The US is a great place to start that journey, especially for immigrants with a strong work ethic. 

And despite what you may think, I do value your words and experiences.  We don't see eye to eye on a lot of topics, but that is probably generational more than anything.  Thank you for your POV.

[Galway Eagle]

I'd be much more interested in dual citizenship for stability reasons. 

As long as you don't have pride as a national of that other country right?

[Hards Alumni]

As long as you don't have pride as a national of that other country right?

I promise not to run around my dual citizenship country as a walking American stereotype!   

[Galway Eagle]

I promise not to run around my dual citizenship country as a walking American stereotype!   

Damn right, and if you end up in Canada and so much as post one "Tim hortons > Dunkin" I'll be here to tell you to cut the Canadian pride act!

[Goose]

hards

To be clear, I chose not to relocate my family to China 25 years ago 100% because of family, at least that is what I thought was the reason. My point is nothing in life is free of sacrifices and I do believe family is a built in crutch. To be honest, I thought about my decision not to move to China 1000 times over the years and deep down it really never was 100% because of family. In my heart I knew if I moved my family to China that I was going there for life , or most of my life, and that was the biggest reason for not doing it. If we had moved (wife and four kids under age of 8) it would have been purely a selfish choice on my part and that is why it never happened.

[JWags85]

I do wonder how many more “successful” Americans might leave the US for more than just a year or two, if not for the expat tax situation.  I know it’s factored heavily into a few possible relocations for me in the past.  The appeal of a place like HK or Dubai is lessened when you’re still gonna pay the same rate

[Goose]

jwags

Any person that is wealthy enough, and has the will or desire, to chase better tax laws are doing so already. I have always believed that too many people outsmart themselves and relocating for taxes falls into that camp for me. If you have fxxk you money do you really need to get out of dodge for some tax breaks? Corporations are a different deal and I get their motive to dodge taxes. One lesson I always remembered from my Dad was him saying every April 15th "I feel badly for anyone not paying taxes today".

[Hards Alumni]

jwags

Any person that is wealthy enough, and has the will or desire, to chase better tax laws are doing so already. I have always believed that too many people outsmart themselves and relocating for taxes falls into that camp for me. If you have fxxk you money do you really need to get out of dodge for some tax breaks? Corporations are a different deal and I get their motive to dodge taxes. One lesson I always remembered from my Dad was him saying every April 15th "I feel badly for anyone not paying taxes today".

Oh, I wouldn't leave for financial reasons.

[JWags85]

jwags

Any person that is wealthy enough, and has the will or desire, to chase better tax laws are doing so already. I have always believed that too many people outsmart themselves and relocating for taxes falls into that camp for me. If you have fxxk you money do you really need to get out of dodge for some tax breaks? Corporations are a different deal and I get their motive to dodge taxes. One lesson I always remembered from my Dad was him saying every April 15th "I feel badly for anyone not paying taxes today".

Fair enough.  I don't think its a sole motivation, but it was a consideration when I debated a strategic move to HK a few years back.  I decided against it for myriad reasons, but if I had tax benefits (for more than just the company I would have formed there) for myself and the American associate that would have likely come with me, it may have been a more persuasive situation.  Its just a very different consideration set than my friends who are Brits or Belgians or South African that dont have citizen based taxation.  I have a pair of associates who moved from Antwerp to Dubai, partially for shorter flights to Asia, but mostly because they could be way more aggressive and lean in their new business venture when they kept way more of their take home each month and used a chunk of those savings to come back to Belgium monthly to see their friends and family.

 I believe the credit is $105K, so there is some benefit, but you can be making well over that and still paying US taxes and be far from FU money.  I think its silly when you're chasing a few percentage points of state tax.  But they were literally paying 50% income tax in Belgium vs 0% in UAE.  Not a consideration for Americans.

[naginiF]

I've not read the bill, but on face value this is a good thing and got solid bipartisan support

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/22/covid-19-hate-crime-bill-protect-asian-americans-passes-senate/7290109002/

Edit: guess who cast the only 'no' vote

[MU82]

I've not read the bill, but on face value this is a good thing and got solid bipartisan support

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/22/covid-19-hate-crime-bill-protect-asian-americans-passes-senate/7290109002/

Can't hurt! At least the powers-that-be recognize the problem and are trying to do something about it.

[JWags85]

Not to go too off topic, and maybe its better in the other thread, but I saw a set of tweets actually complaining about this yesterday.  Not for the reasons you might think.

Basically an executive order to protect Asian Americans (which is good).  There has also been Biden EOs to protect transgender people (also good).  But nothing to protect/address African Americans similarly.

I didn't dismiss it and at the time didn't have time to dig further into it, but it made me go "hmm?"  This isn't supposed to be an attack on Biden, but more has nothing specifically been addressed cause its so widespread and almost a part of life, where similar actions to transgender and Asian Americans is more recent and out of the norm?

[Hards Alumni]

Not to go too off topic, and maybe its better in the other thread, but I saw a set of tweets actually complaining about this yesterday.  Not for the reasons you might think.

Basically an executive order to protect Asian Americans (which is good).  There has also been Biden EOs to protect transgender people (also good).  But nothing to protect/address African Americans similarly.

I didn't dismiss it and at the time didn't have time to dig further into it, but it made me go "hmm?"  This isn't supposed to be an attack on Biden, but more has nothing specifically been addressed cause its so widespread and almost a part of life, where similar actions to transgender and Asian Americans is more recent and out of the norm?

He's probably just Biden his time.

Jokes aside, yes, I also thought it was odd.

[Pakuni]

I've not read the bill, but on face value this is a good thing and got solid bipartisan support

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/22/covid-19-hate-crime-bill-protect-asian-americans-passes-senate/7290109002/

Edit: guess who cast the only 'no' vote

Josh, I cant think of hawley anyone who would be that stupid.