The Hey its 2021 now guys MLB thread

[MU82]

I don't believe in the term goat either. There is no such thing. All players, can't play in all eras, under all circumstances. The best or one of thr best teams or players of an era can be considered an all time great, or one of the all time greats, but that is as far as ot can go.

It's plenty good enough to say a specific player or team is the best or one of the best of his their era.

That's your opinion.

In my opinion, Willie Mays would have been "the best or one of the best" of any era, from the day baseball was invented to last night to every day/era in between. And there are others who would be in that conversation, too.

[shoothoops]

That's your opinion.

In my opinion, Willie Mays would have been "the best or one of the best" of any era, from the day baseball was invented to last night to every day/era in between. And there are others who would be in that conversation, too.

I mentioned in my posts that I believe any player (or team) that is the best or among the best of its individual era would qualify as an all time great and could and would likely be highly successful in any era.

What I am not willing to do is compare Willie Mays to Babe Ruth for example. They are both all time greats. But it isn't really possible to compare them head to head. It is more reasonable for me to compare Willie Mays or Babe Ruth, or whomever with other best players of their respective individual eras.

In my opinion modern players would adjust to past eras and vice versa. Past players would adjust in more modern eras.

Often times you may see someone saying those old time players can't compete in today's game. Well give those old time players the same circumstances all around and they would do fine. The same goes for the best players of more modern eras. The best ones would do just fine and be among the best in past eras too.

So you can have the best or some of the best in different eras. But that's as far as one can reasonably take it.

I am aware some people have a favorite player or team and their personality is such that they have a need to have one definitive best player or team ever, and engage in fun discussion about it. That doesn't interest me much because it isn't reasonable. Having a favorite player or team is different. I'm just fine with having a list of all time great players and teams of different eras than just one.

[jficke13]

[shoothoops]

Nah. Facts are facts. If someone says they don't like a player, I don't care in any way.

I'll give you a different example. I have posted here in the past about Ted Simmons. He was long deserving, and long overlooked for MLB Hall of Fame. Few cared because he played a few seasons with the Brewers.

Many (not all) of the people who have posted here such as yourself, are tribal group think Brewers fans that scapegoat an opposing team or player often because that player or team has had success against that fan's player or team. It's common for the tribe to also choose perceived less supported people or groups as targets.

The people paying attention that aren't tribal group think scapegoating fans understand and get it. They are the ones not posting. I'm pretty consistent as I don't have interest in posting negatively about a team player in this manner. It isn't how I post or think. I don't need to put someone or something else down to lift myself up. I would rather discuss specific situations and examples.

The topic in this example was about a specific incident. There is video, there are interviews, etc...of the incident. But that gets lost and not relevant with the tribe. That doesn't matter.

The topic wasn't about something else specific to another team or player.

The topic then changed by the tribe into comparing great catchers of different eras.

The tribe sees what it wants to see, and I will post how I post on a variety of topics based on what interests me.

[jficke13]

[...]

Many (not all) of the people who have posted here such as yourself, are tribal group think Brewers fans[...]

I've literally only contributed to this Molina discussion to post a meme about the lengths you've gone to tank for him.

[cheebs09]

Nah. Facts are facts. If someone says they don't like a player, I don't care in any way.

I'll give you a different example. I have posted here in the past about Ted Simmons. He was long deserving, and long overlooked for MLB Hall of Fame. Few cared because he played a few seasons with the Brewers.

Many (not all) of the people who have posted here such as yourself, are tribal group think Brewers fans that scapegoat an opposing team or player often because that player or team has had success against that fan's player or team. It's common for the tribe to also choose perceived less supported people or groups as targets.

The people paying attention that aren't tribal group think scapegoating fans understand and get it. They are the ones not posting. I'm pretty consistent as I don't have interest in posting negatively about a team player in this manner. It isn't how I post or think. I don't need to put someone or something else down to lift myself up. I would rather discuss specific situations and examples.

The topic in this example was about a specific incident. There is video, there are interviews, etc...of the incident. But that gets lost and not relevant with the tribe. That doesn't matter.

The topic wasn't about something else specific to another team or player.

The topic then changed by the tribe into comparing great catchers of different eras.

The tribe sees what it wants to see, and I will post how I post on a variety of topics based on what interests me.

Thank goodness the Cardinals fans are here to set the “tribal” NL Central fans straight.

I fully recognize I’m probably biased about Molina based on being a Brewers fan. I think he’s an overrated hot head. Still a very good player.

I also think it’s safe to say Cardinals fans overrate his abilities.

[shoothoops]

Thank goodness the Cardinals fans are here to set the “tribal” NL Central fans straight.

I fully recognize I’m probably biased about Molina based on being a Brewers fan. I think he’s an overrated hot head. Still a very good player.

I also think it’s safe to say Cardinals fans overrate his abilities.

It's not sports specific. It can also be politics, religion, etc...other topics, and, it's only one portion of a fan base.

Reality is fan bases vary. Every team has good, bad, indifferent fans. No exceptions. Every team has tribal fans and other types of fans. No exceptions, even the Cardinals.

You, here, admit that you are a biased Brewers fan. But then you can't help yourself after that and illustrate the point by saying this particular player is an overrated hot head. Few things short of me saying negative things about this particular tribal targeted player is going to appease the tribe. And any unwillingness to do so incorrectly gets exaggerated to mean something else that the tribe wants it to mean.

And then you make a generalized statement unsupported by specifics. I would rather take specific situations individually. But if asked generally, is he overrated and a hot head? I would say no to both. He is a future MLB HOF player that has been one of the best catcher's the past two decades. If anything I believe his career is probably underrated by some. But that isn't popular with a tribal portion of an opposing team's fan base.

 As I have said before, he is approaching the end of his career, and as is the case with many players, he isn't likely to be as good as he has been at other times in his career. But he's good enough to play often on a team that is trying ro contend for their division. This may be his last year. The topic also wasn't about his team either. He isn't on a great team in my opinion. They will be one of several teams in their division that will try to contend for the playoffs and see what happens as the season progresses. They have some strengths and weaknesses, and they have some holes to fill. They certainly have a flawed team.

If the Brewers hadn't joined the NL Central, and if the Cardinals had less success, this would be less of a discussion in general. And, considering everyone is here for Marquette related reasons, the possibility of this also increases.

People can still post however they want to post, and I will respond with however I want to respond.

[Uncle Rico]

Nah. Facts are facts. If someone says they don't like a player, I don't care in any way.

I'll give you a different example. I have posted here in the past about Ted Simmons. He was long deserving, and long overlooked for MLB Hall of Fame. Few cared because he played a few seasons with the Brewers.

Many (not all) of the people who have posted here such as yourself, are tribal group think Brewers fans that scapegoat an opposing team or player often because that player or team has had success against that fan's player or team. It's common for the tribe to also choose perceived less supported people or groups as targets.

The people paying attention that aren't tribal group think scapegoating fans understand and get it. They are the ones not posting. I'm pretty consistent as I don't have interest in posting negatively about a team player in this manner. It isn't how I post or think. I don't need to put someone or something else down to lift myself up. I would rather discuss specific situations and examples.

The topic in this example was about a specific incident. There is video, there are interviews, etc...of the incident. But that gets lost and not relevant with the tribe. That doesn't matter.

The topic wasn't about something else specific to another team or player.

The topic then changed by the tribe into comparing great catchers of different eras.

The tribe sees what it wants to see, and I will post how I post on a variety of topics based on what interests me.

You’ve certainly not come off as “tribal” at all but as a dispassionate observer. 

[wadesworld]

I will just let shoot tell me what all of my opinions on all things baseball should be.  He is, after all, a Cards fan.  He knows better than everyone else.

[shoothoops]

I will just let shoot tell me what all of my opinions on all things baseball should be.  He is, after all, a Cards fan.  He knows better than everyone else.

Thanks for illustrating the point. You, and some others, keep coming back and coming back to illustrate the point.

I believe your first post on this recent topic was, “I hate the Cardinals but that was ridiculous of Castellanos.” 

You were trying to balance your tribal dislike with objectivity to the actual specific topic. But as we can see here, by this post, the balance can be challenging at times.

I of course didn’t say Cardinal Fans know better than anyone else. Actually what I said was every team has good, bad, indifferent fans, and, that every team has tribal fans as a portion of its fan base.

But I do appreciate you illustrating the point.

[wadesworld]

Thanks for illustrating the point. You, and some others, keep coming back and coming back to illustrate the point.

I believe your first post on this recent topic was, “I hate the Cardinals but that was ridiculous of Castellanos.” 

You were trying to balance your tribal dislike with objectivity to the actual specific topic. But as we can see here, by this post, the balance can be challenging at times.

I of course didn’t say Cardinal Fans know better than anyone else. Actually what I said was every team has good, bad, indifferent fans, and, that every team has tribal fans as a portion of its fan base.

But I do appreciate you illustrating the point.

Yeah.   You're a level headed, unbiased, intelligent fan and most everyone here is a tribal NL Central idiot.

You never said "Cardinal Fans" know better than anyone else.  But you just made "Cardinals Fans" a proper noun.  So you just illustrated the point as well.  So thank you.

But yes, what Castellanos did was ridiculous.  We are now like 100 posts later of you defending any little "shot" at anything that has to do with the Cardinals.  It's gotten old.

[shoothoops]

Yeah.   You're a level headed, unbiased, intelligent fan and most everyone here is a tribal NL Central idiot.

You never said "Cardinal Fans" know better than anyone else.  But you just made "Cardinals Fans" a proper noun.  So you just illustrated the point as well.  So thank you.

But yes, what Castellanos did was ridiculous.  We are now like 100 posts later of you defending any little "shot" at anything that has to do with the Cardinals.  It's gotten old.

Again, this is one of the repeated issues with which you are struggling.

First, I didn’t say or imply anything in your first paragraph. You can attribute as many things as you want to me. If they are are not true, it isn’t all that surprising that I would point that out in response.

I repeated what you said which was Cards Fan. Those were your words, so I used your words.

Then you say we are 100 posts later, etc...but you left off the part about some people, including yourself, who keep posting about it. My response could have been one or a few posts at most. Maybe take that one up with yourself and some others.

[jficke13]

This has been an amazing journey along the self-awareness superhighway.

[wadesworld]

Again, this is one of the repeated issues with which you are struggling.

First, I didn’t say or imply anything in your first paragraph. You can attribute as many things as you want to me. If they are are not true, it isn’t all that surprising that I would point that out in response.

I repeated what you said which was Cards Fan. Those were your words, so I used your words.

Then you say we are 100 posts later, etc...but you left off the part about some people, including yourself, who keep posting about it. My response could have been one or a few posts at most. Maybe take that one up with yourself and some others.

Right.  It's everyone else's fault.  If everyone just bowed at the feet of Cards Fans and the Cardinals, kissed their feet and admitted not only are they all the most incredible baseball players in the MLB, but also amazing people on top of it, we would not be having the Cards Fan put us all in our tribal place.  The solution to keeping Cards Fans quiet is to never do anything but praise the almighty Cards.

[shoothoops]

This has been an amazing journey along the self-awareness superhighway.

Good. Glad to help. 👍

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

Nah. Facts are facts. If someone says they don't like a player, I don't care in any way.

Clearly

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

I want Nick Madrigal off my baseball team, like right now. I can’t take it anymore. I don’t care if he hits .350 with all his hits being single, I can’t do this anymore with his horrendous defense and terrible base running.

I’m so disappointed. It’s been embarrassing

[shoothoops]

Right.  It's everyone else's fault.  If everyone just bowed at the feet of Cards Fans and the Cardinals, kissed their feet and admitted not only are they all the most incredible baseball players in the MLB, but also amazing people on top of it, we would not be having the Cards Fan put us all in our tribal place.  The solution to keeping Cards Fans quiet is to never do anything but praise the almighty Cards.

Again, you are attributing things to me which I did not say or imply.

And you somehow falsely make a giant leap to something else entirely.

As I have stated before, my preference is to discuss individual, specific, situations, as they arise, as I did in this recent example.

So it there is anything baseball specific you would like to discuss...this week’s College Baseball rankings in the six polls, and weekend matchups? MLB a specific player or team or situation, let me know. 👍



Generalized group think scapegoating isn’t my thing.

[shoothoops]

Clearly

Like who and what you want. I don’t care in any way. When the discussion becomes more specific, I will go where the specifics take me. That’s how it works.

It’s different to discuss specific players, teams, situations from more of a specific factual/results standpoint than only from a generalized fandom or dislike standpoint.

Molina happens to have been a pretty good player. A recent poster mentioned comparing Randall Grichuk (he played for the Cardinals) and Henry Aaron. I said I wouldn’t because they didn’t play in the same era. And of course one was one of the best players of his era, and the other one wasn’t.

[Jockey]

I will just let shoot tell me what all of my opinions on all things baseball should be.  He is, after all, a Cards fan.  He knows better than everyone else.

cardinal fans have learned their lessons well. The arrogant team has long held themselves up as arbiters of the rules AND the proper way to play the game. Should we expect any less arrogance from their fans. Obviously, it is their duty to enforce fan "rules".

[Jockey]

What I am not willing to do is compare Willie Mays to Babe Ruth for example. They are both all time greats. But it isn't really possible to compare them head to head. It is more reasonable for me to compare Willie Mays or Babe Ruth, or whomever with other best players of their respective individual eras.

As Bill James, showed, it is very possible to compare players from different eras.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

You say you don't care but then process with multi paragraph ramblings in response to everyone else.

We get it.  You think all things St Louis is the cat's ass.  Enjoy your provel.

[jsglow]

Now on to something truly important.  Tailgating returns to Miller.... um, Am Fam Field!

[wadesworld]

cardinal fans have learned their lessons well. The arrogant team has long held themselves up as arbiters of the rules AND the proper way to play the game. Should we expect any less arrogance from their fans. Obviously, it is their duty to enforce fan "rules".

Show some effing respect.  It's Cardinal Fans to you.

[Jockey]

So, should the cubbies be mad at Brewers' pitchers for hitting them a couple times?

Being thankful might be a better response. Walks and HBP are their primary ways of getting on base.