MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: #UnleashSean on January 19, 2021, 07:21:27 PM
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Guyyyyys
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Good job, Unleash. Wake us all up.
A couple more months and we'll have some signings to talk about. :-\
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Hey now, we can talk about Jared right now!
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Lots of scuttle about a Sox-Brewers trade.
Not alot of details except Corbin Burnes. Can't really see the Brewers dealing him at all. Its probably just internet nonsense.
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Lots of scuttle about a Sox-Brewers trade.
Not alot of details except Corbin Burnes. Can't really see the Brewers dealing him at all. Its probably just internet nonsense.
Would take Vaughn and another very good prospect - but don't see Brewers wanting to move Burnes. Small market teams need cheap pitching.
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Would take Vaughn and another very good prospect - but don't see Brewers wanting to move Burnes. Small market teams need cheap pitching.
Yeah, doesn't make much sense. I really don't see the Sox moving Vaughn or Crochet, but who knows. I wonder if it would be Kopech or Cease and Madrigal ++ or something.
Its a fun rumor to think about, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Jon Lester signs with the Nate.
Cub pitching looks awful for 2021. Lester was a shell of his former self but could still be the mature anchor of tHe staff.
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Jon Lester signs with the Nate.
Cub pitching looks awful for 2021. Lester was a shell of his former self but could still be the mature anchor of tHe staff.
Max Scherzer is the mature anchor of the staff. Same age as Lester. Lester should be a good addition to a staff of Scherzer, Strasburg, and Corbin and is an upgrade over Anibel Sanchez and Joe Ross who held that fourth rotation spot last year.
Nats were disappointment last year, they really missed Anthony Rendon. But with Schawber and Josh Bell pickups, they now have little more power in the lineup than they did last year. Bench is thin, so they are one injury anyway for some problems.
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Nats were disappointment last year, they really missed Anthony Rendon. But with Schawber and Josh Bell pickups, they now have little more power in the lineup than they did last year. Bench is thin, so they are one injury anyway for some problems.
Very much agree with this. I'm surprised they're trying to improve by paying Schwarber and Bell $16M this year. Kinda think it would be better to build out a broader number of useful depth pieces. I'd rather mix and match, like, Mitch Moreland/Matt Adams, Adam Duvall/Hunter Renfroe types. Gives you more flexibility and depth, and you're less dependent on hoping 2019 Josh Bell shows back up.
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A bunch of signings over the past week or so. The one that made me smile and shake my head the most was Realmuto back to the Phils for $115/5. Not because its an indefensible deal (though I wouldn't want to give a 30 year old catcher $115M, even if he's been clearly the best in baseball for the last 3 years). It was more that the Phillies have been pounding the table about saving money and then brought in Dombrowski who - shocker - gave out a big contract. Without even debating the merits of his moves, I would very much like the job where you pop around from team to team and are given the green light to spend all of the money they've been fastidiously saving.
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Brew Crew linked to Justin Turner and Eddie Rosario. Hoping they spend some money this off-season. Listening to Haudricourt spewing the “they have no money to spend” line is nauseating.
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Brew Crew linked to Justin Turner and Eddie Rosario. Hoping they spend some money this off-season. Listening to Haudricourt spewing the “they have no money to spend” line is nauseating.
Would love to see Turner in Milw.
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A bunch of signings over the past week or so. The one that made me smile and shake my head the most was Realmuto back to the Phils for $115/5. Not because its an indefensible deal (though I wouldn't want to give a 30 year old catcher $115M, even if he's been clearly the best in baseball for the last 3 years). It was more that the Phillies have been pounding the table about saving money and then brought in Dombrowski who - shocker - gave out a big contract. Without even debating the merits of his moves, I would very much like the job where you pop around from team to team and are given the green light to spend all of the money they've been fastidiously saving.
Dombrowski forced the Red Sox into a hole, but it was well worth it for the 2018 championship. Those horrible new contracts for Sale and Eovaldi may well have cost the Red Sox 10 years of Mookie Betts, and that is hard to forgive. I feel for Tower because the Tigers felt the post-Dombrowski pain without the championship to make it worthwhile.
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Should have spent money on some team speed and a bullpen. And really shouldn't have had a week off (2x) between the ALCS and the start of the WS.
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Adam Wainwright re-signs with St. Louis. (Turned down San Diego and Atlanta)
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And now Arnando. The Cardinals are for real!
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Bauer to the Dodgers.
That should be fun for the NL
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If the Brewers do end up getting Turner, I actually like what the roster looks like this year.
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The Mets will be very good and I don’t think this makes or breaks anything for them, but with all their recent cause for optimism, this was classic “hopes up for nothing” Mets action with Bauer
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The Mets will be very good and I don’t think this makes or breaks anything for them, but with all their recent cause for optimism, this was classic “hopes up for nothing” Mets action with Bauer
To be fair, he played them pretty good.
Always wanted to go home. Just got them to help drive the Dodgers price up a bit. Definitely got their hopes up for nothing, but wasnt much they could do.
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Thats a lot of dough for a guy that was terrible in 2019.
Its also alot of dough for a guy that was outstanding last year. Wow.
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Trevor Bauer’s AAV and the payroll for the pennant-winning ‘20 Tampa Bay Rays is probably eerily similar.
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Thats a lot of dough for a guy that was terrible in 2019.
Its also alot of dough for a guy that was outstanding last year. Wow.
He was great in 18, had some issues in 19 but that was a weird season including switching leagues, and then was fantastic this year.
Dude is durable, eats innings, and just turned 30. Pitching salaries are getting crazy but he’s deserving. He’s kind of a lunatic but I love his approach to pitching and think he’s only gonna get better as he enters his prime, absent some major injury. Also love him betting on himself taking a shorter deal.
Buehler and Bauer are a hell of a 1-2 before Kershaw.
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He was great in 18, had some issues in 19 but that was a weird season including switching leagues, and then was fantastic this year.
Dude is durable, eats innings, and just turned 30. Pitching salaries are getting crazy but he’s deserving. He’s kind of a lunatic but I love his approach to pitching and think he’s only gonna get better as he enters his prime, absent some major injury. Also love him betting on himself taking a shorter deal.
Buehler and Bauer are a hell of a 1-2 before Kershaw.
Putting Bauer ahead of Kershaw in any measure seems like madness to me. He has pitched in 9 seasons and in 7 of them, his era was above 4. His career WHIP is 1.27. His career K/bb is 2.82. He was great last year, and is a good bet going forward. But he hasn't shown consistency at all. He isn't in the same class of pitcher of Kershaw. Last year was the only year he has ever been better, and Kershaw was great last year too. Bauer is durable, and can dominate. He can also be petulant and bad. He was traded from the Indians following a temper tantrum in the mound. No doubt he can pick apart a lineup. No doubt he uses every tool avaliable to him to get better and analyze how to dissect a lineup.
But to put him ahead of Kershaw? Because of a season in which he threw 73 innings? I can't do that. You could take any year 9f Kershaw's career and it would be one of the best of Bauer's career. If I'm Dave Roberts, Bauer is my game 3 guy.
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Thats a lot of dough for a guy that was terrible in 2019.
Its also alot of dough for a guy that was outstanding last year. Wow.
Must be rough making personnel decisions for the Dodgers. If Bauer bombs, no problem, they’ll give his replacement a ridiculous contract.
It’s like baseball is a 100 yard dash and Dodgers start the race 30 yards ahead of everyone else. The Yankees even seem penny pinchers to their spending now. They do develop from within well, will give them that.
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The Dodgers have spent $240 million, and, are still seeking to add players.
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The Dodgers have spent $240 million, and, are still seeking to add players.
It's not real money, anyway.
Yankees didn't win the WS every year when they were trying to "buy championships" - not even close - and neither will the Dodgers.
And when MLB decides to expand - and it's coming - there will be a line of billionaires willing to buy franchises.
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Thats a lot of dough for a guy that was terrible in 2019.
Its also alot of dough for a guy that was outstanding last year. Wow.
I don't get it. He'ss had two great seasons (2018 and 2020) out of nine, and one of them was only 11 starts. He obviously added some sort of stickum or something to increase his spin rate in 2020, and if MLB cracks down on that you could be paying $40M for an average pitcher. I don't get the love affair with the guy, at least not to the $40M/year level.
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I don't get it. He'ss had two great seasons (2018 and 2020) out of nine, and one of them was only 11 starts. He obviously added some sort of stickum or something to increase his spin rate in 2020, and if MLB cracks down on that you could be paying $40M for an average pitcher. I don't get the love affair with the guy, at least not to the $40M/year level.
Most pitchers use some sort of stickum. And most hitters prefer that as it helps the pitchers with their control as they spin it more.
Bauer has been the most innovative pitcher recently - maybe ever. His work has led to more knowledge about spin rate than pitchers in the last 150 years combined. His innovations are now standard operating procedure for most teams.
But, is he as good as last years numbers? Probably not, but he is going to help LA a lot.
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https://www.mlb.com/news/ryan-braun-not-currently-interested-in-playing (https://www.mlb.com/news/ryan-braun-not-currently-interested-in-playing)
If there really is no DH in the NL this year, I think Braun’s time in MIL is over.
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It seems like the universal DH will come around sooner than later. Having had it last year, why not just keep it? Why go back and forth and change the roster construction of NL teams?
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It seems like the universal DH will come around sooner than later. Having had it last year, why not just keep it? Why go back and forth and change the roster construction of NL teams?
So the owners can use it as leverage in CBA negotiations.
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Jake Arrieta will sign with the Cubs for 1 year and $6M. That’s just weird.
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Jake Arrieta will sign with the Cubs for 1 year and $6M. That’s just weird.
(http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Oh-Boy-Here-We-Go-Jim-Carrey-Reaction-In-Me-Myself-Irene.gif)
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Speaking of 2nd chances for white boys:
Tim Tebow, 33, spent the 2019 season at Triple-A Syracuse where he slashed a putrid .163/.240/.255 with four homers, 19 RBI, two swipes and a 98/20 K/BB ratio in 264 plate appearances.
He has EARNED a well deserved invite to the Mets training camp.
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Speaking of 2nd chances for white boys:
Tim Tebow, 33, spent the 2019 season at Triple-A Syracuse where he slashed a putrid .163/.240/.255 with four homers, 19 RBI, two swipes and a 98/20 K/BB ratio in 264 plate appearances.
He has EARNED a well deserved invite to the Mets training camp.
I’m the farthest thing from a Tebow supporter and his entire baseball odyssey has been an absolute joke, but it’s not a second chance, it’s a publicity stunt like his entire minor league career has been. They bring him to spring training every year to create buzz and get eyeballs (especially when they’ve needed it during the last few abysmal years) and then he goes off to hack around terribly in upstate NY. Have to imagine this is the last year of it, for various reasons.
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I%u2019m the farthest thing from a Tebow supporter and his entire baseball odyssey has been an absolute joke, but it%u2019s not a second chance, it%u2019s a publicity stunt like his entire minor league career has been. They bring him to spring training every year to create buzz and get eyeballs (especially when they%u2019ve needed it during the last few abysmal years) and then he goes off to hack around terribly in upstate NY. Have to imagine this is the last year of it, for various reasons.
Yeah, I believe Russell Wilson and Garth Brooks are among those that have gotten spring training invites.
I don't think the Mets are giving him a shot for an opening day roster spot.
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I’m the farthest thing from a Tebow supporter and his entire baseball odyssey has been an absolute joke, but it’s not a second chance, it’s a publicity stunt like his entire minor league career has been. They bring him to spring training every year to create buzz and get eyeballs (especially when they’ve needed it during the last few abysmal years) and then he goes off to hack around terribly in upstate NY. Have to imagine this is the last year of it, for various reasons.
Keep in mind where the Mets train.... the Treasure Coast of Florida.
They love their Gators down here.
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Obvious publicity stunt.
But that's OK ... B.S. makes the world go 'round.
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Obvious publicity stunt.
But that's OK ... B.S. makes the world go 'round.
14899
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Turner resigning with LA. No way the Brewers we’re going to pay him what LA did.
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Turner resigning with LA. No way the Brewers we’re going to pay him what LA did.
Yep. Too bad the dollars got where they did. But good for Turner, good for the Brewers for knowing when to fold em, and good for the Dodgers for having and being willing to spend all that money.
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The Brewers reportedly offered Turner the same $34 Mil for 2 years, or a 3-year deal at a lower ATV. It's obvious he wanted to stay in LA, but it's not cuz the Brewers wouldn't pay.
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The Brewers reportedly offered Turner the same $34 Mil for 2 years, or a 3-year deal at a lower ATV. It's obvious he wanted to stay in LA, but it's not cuz the Brewers wouldn't pay.
Yeah I saw that after I posted...looks like LAD matched the brewers offer. Return to LA is a no brainer.
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Fan Graphs gives the Baltimore Orioles a 0.0% chance to make the Playoffs this season.
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Fernando Tatis Jr.
San Diego
14 yrs $340 Million. (Robert Murray)
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Fernando Tatis Jr.
San Diego
14 yrs $340 Million. (Robert Murray)
1/3 of a Billion dollars. 24.2 million a year for 14 years. Ridiculous.
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Baseball contracts make no sense to me. Can they do this because of TV revenue? If you think about it NFL players are grossly underpaid in comparison.
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Baseball contracts make no sense to me. Can hey do this because of TV revenue? If you think about it NFL players are grossly underpaid in comparison.
Grossly underpaid and non guaranteed contracts. Jeff Samardzija made the right choice all this years ago.
Think this ends up being good for both sides - who knows what contracts will be like 14 years from now? That's like 3 TV deals, 2 CBAs, and 3 failed presidential runs by Trumps children from now.
Who should be really pissed is Ocuna and Albies.
I see a near zero percent chance there is not a lockout though.
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Tatis has played in 142 games. That’s it.
Juan Soto may get 500 million.
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Fernando Tatis Jr.
San Diego
14 yrs $340 Million. (Robert Murray)
Jeesh! That's almost twice what Ners got in his first pro contract!!
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Lew Krausse, who threw first pitch in Brewers history, dies at 77
www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2021/02/18/lew-krausse-who-threw-first-pitch-brewers-history-dies-77/6798068002/
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We got baseball games tomorrow and we haven't posted in this in how long?
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CONFIRMED:
Red Sox get Bryant from the Cubs
https://mobile.twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1365776767114444805?s=20
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CONFIRMED:
Red Sox get Bryant from the Cubs
https://mobile.twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1365776767114444805?s=20
8-)
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Jon Lester signs with the Nate.
Cub pitching looks awful for 2021. Lester was a shell of his former self but could still be the mature anchor of tHe staff.
Maybe it doesn't matter how bad your teams pitching will be.
https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2021/02/08/mlb-is-trying-to-de-juice-the-baseball-again/
So much for baseball records: juiced baseballs, juiced players, pampered pitchers (i.e. 6 innings or less).
Bring back the doubleheader and give the fan a break.
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Bernie has gone from sliding into a mug of beer, to having a “dugout” to his current “chalet.”(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvcFtiJWgAAzw76?format=jpg&name=medium)
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Bernie has gone from sliding into a mug of beer, to having a “dugout” to his current “chalet.”(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvcFtiJWgAAzw76?format=jpg&name=medium)
Miller Park
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Bernie has gone from sliding into a mug of beer, to having a “dugout” to his current “chalet.”(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvcFtiJWgAAzw76?format=jpg&name=medium)
Nothing will top the Beer Mug, but that seems to be a cool update.
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I will never not call it Miller Park
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I will never not call it Miller Park
I still call it County II, after good ole Milwaukee County Stadium.
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I will never not call it Miller Park
So the team is now the Milwaukee Family Insurers. Has a nice ring to it.
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Brewers sign Jackie Bradley, Jr. Looks like a good value, low risk signing.
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Brewers sign Jackie Bradley, Jr. Looks like a good value, low risk signing.
I loved that guy, hate to see him leave the Red Sox. He is super streaky hitter. For about one 4 week stretch a year, he is Willie Mays in his prime. He hits .350 with power and chases down everything in the outfield. The rest of the year he reminds me of Darren Lewis, a .220 hitter who chases down everything in the outfield. He is less than his zenith as an outfielder, but still great out there.
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If Burnes is legit like last year, the Brewers might get to 90 wins while averaging 3 runs per game.
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If Burnes is legit like last year, the Brewers might get to 90 wins while averaging 3 runs per game.
Early reports out of spring training say Burnes is looking even better than last year.
Burnes for Cy Young is a great value bet at +4000.
Also good value in Yelich for MVP at +700.
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Brewers do seem to be doubling down on pure run prevention. I guess if you can keep the other team off the board, sneaking a 1-0 or 2-1 win against the Dodgers is probably a better bet than beating them in a slugfest.
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I wonder if Cain is opting out? I not, JBJ seems like a strange signing.
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Having your four highest paid players all be outfielders is an interesting strategy. I'm guessing that Cain may not be 100% after sitting a year.
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I wonder if Cain is opting out? I not, JBJ seems like a strange signing.
Cain's status was the first thing I thought of when I saw the signing too. Maybe he's thinking about opting out again, or maybe he's just not looking like himself. He only had an okay 2019 behind the plate and then opted out last year, and will be 35 in April. So even if Cain is playing this could be a bit of a hedge.
My second thought was that I'm really curious to see what kind of money/years Odorizzi gets when he signs. He's looking for 3 years in the 13-15 range, wonder if something like $33/3 will get it done.
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I wonder if Cain is opting out? I not, JBJ seems like a strange signing.
Man's 35 and has 3 kids. ;D. Gonna need some off days.
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I wonder if Cain is opting out? I not, JBJ seems like a strange signing.
Have you seen Avisail Garcia play? He hit like Kevin Elster last year and, at best, is an average defender. Brewers don't want to get stuck in the same situation with him that they did last year. I see Cain in RF a lot this year.
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Moving Cain to RF would mitigate him having lost a half step.
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Bradley bats lefty so they could end up platooning in some fashion as well.
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Have you seen Avisail Garcia play? He hit like Kevin Elster last year and, at best, is an average defender. Brewers don't want to get stuck in the same situation with him that they did last year. I see Cain in RF a lot this year.
I don’t know the exact context, but I guess Counsell said “Cain is our Center Fielder.”
https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamMcCalvy/status/1367517523214704642
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Bradley bats lefty so they could end up platooning in some fashion as well.
I think there will be a lot of revolving CF /RF by Cain, Bradley, and Garcia.
As you noted, Bradley batting left, I think he gets the most ABs followed by Cain, then Garcia.
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I think there will be a lot of revolving CF /RF by Cain, Bradley, and Garcia.
As you noted, Bradley batting left, I think he gets the most ABs followed by Cain, then Garcia.
I think a fully effective Lorenzo Cain plays about 130 games tops. Bradley and Garcia are still going to get a lot of at-bats. With Woodruff and Burnes being bargains at the moment, spending the money in the OF is hardly a risk. Garcia and Bradley can both walk if they choose after the season. I love what they’ve done the last month. Not the sexiest signings but they’ve got a lot of movable pieces in the lineup
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I think a fully effective Lorenzo Cain plays about 130 games tops. Bradley and Garcia are still going to get a lot of at-bats. With Woodruff and Burnes being bargains at the moment, spending the money in the OF is hardly a risk. Garcia and Bradley can both walk if they choose after the season. I love what they’ve done the last month. Not the sexiest signings but they’ve got a lot of movable pieces in the lineup
A lot of smart baseball people think Milwaukee will win the division. If their bullpen holds up, I tend to agree.
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A lot of smart baseball people think Milwaukee will win the division. If their bullpen holds up, I tend to agree.
Bullpen has a lot of options. Very excited by its prospects. Doubt Williams can be as good as he was in 2020 since it was historically good but anything approaching it gives them a deadly duo at the back end. Pitching depth in Milwaukee is arguably the best it’s been since the early 90’s
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The Brewers look like a very much a "will this team be able to score runs" type of team. Adding Cain (Regardless of whether he's somewhat tailing off) has to be considered a net positive add to the offense. One has to think that Yelich regresses to the mean, which after last season means he is more productive. There's really not a ton of firepower 1-8 not named Yelich.
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A lot of smart baseball people think Milwaukee will win the division. If their bullpen holds up, I tend to agree.
If Yelich is an MVP again, (he was damn near Triple Crown at his peak), I think the Brewers win the division handily. If he is last year’s Yelich, I think the Brewers are a .500 team. I’m sure Yelich be somewhere in the middle.
Jackie Bradley, Jr, is a fine player, I just think the Brewers biggest needs were 1B (Smoak/Gyorko) and 3B (Sogard/Urias), and these were not really addressed.
Bullpens can also carry a team, and MIL has straight smoke coming from there. It’ll be interesting.
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The Brewers look like a very much a "will this team be able to score runs" type of team. Adding Cain (Regardless of whether he's somewhat tailing off) has to be considered a net positive add to the offense. One has to think that Yelich regresses to the mean, which after last season means he is more productive. There's really not a ton of firepower 1-8 not named Yelich.
Hiura will be better than last year and will add firepower. Garcia lost 35 pounds and will be better than last year. Narvaez will be better (he can't get any worse than 2020). Cain is back. Wong and JBJ are positive additions. A lot of what Counsell relies on is riding the hot hand with matchups in his roster versatility so you're never going to see the same lineup two days in a row.
I see a .500 team that eked into last year's playoffs with every single position player (aside from Arcia) having subpar hitting years. I expect them all to hit better this season.
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There should be a footnote by the Brewer's number, concerning the beers per person consumed during tailgating.
(https://i.imgur.com/FYw9jBS.jpg)
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A lot of smart baseball people think Milwaukee will win the division. If their bullpen holds up, I tend to agree.
Maybe. But truly smart, knowledgeable baseball people are predicting the St. Louis Cardinals.
This team has fixed its major deficiency and should be really good.
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This team has fixed its major deficiency and should be really good.
COVID allowed them to fire their fans?
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Former Brewer and Cub Jeremy Jeffress was released by the Nats for “personnel reasons.” I always liked him; hope everything’s ok.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1368616157050191873
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Fernando Tatis, Jr (whom I really, really enjoy watching), homered off of Sergio Romo yesterday.
Romo’s first HR surrendered (2008) was to Fernando Tatis, Sr.
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As long as Sergio has been around, his last homer given up may be to Tatis JR. JR.
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It’s cryptic, but I think Ryan Braun may be retiring.
https://mobile.twitter.com/byandrewwagner/status/1371581065891053572?s=21
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Eloy Jimenez out 5-6 months.
Ugh.
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Eloy Jimenez out 5-6 months.
Ugh.
Big time no bueno.
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Eloy Jimenez out 5-6 months.
Ugh.
Hide. His. Glove.
He is not only a threat to himself in LF, but he is going to kill Luis Robert one of these days.
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Big time no bueno.
Silver lining: You can still get Andrew Vaughn for ROY at +1500
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Silver lining: You can still get Andrew Vaughn for ROY at +1500
I had a few of those tickets before today and think they look better now. DK had Sox win total late this morning at 91.5 (every other book was 90.5). Not great at -124, but I put a little on the under at DK based on the Eloy news. DK dropped to 90.5 this afternoon (still -124).
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Hmmm...Sox short an outfielder, Brewers loaded with outfielders...
Do I smell a potential trade?
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Yasiel Puig is Cuban and available.
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Wow.
Jack Leiter throws a 16 strikeout no hitter last weekend for Vandy vs South Carolina. He backs it up with 7 innings no hits 10 strikeouts bs Mizzou before being pulled at 101 pitch count. (Bullpen gave up a hit with two outs in the 9th)
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Lindor: 10 yrs, 341 million ???
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Mets and Nationals postponed due to positive COVID-19 test on Washington.
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Lindor: 10 yrs, 341 million ???
Different AAV, but exactly $1M more than Tatis signed. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.
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Partly due to being in NC, where there is no MLB, partly due to being a little bored by the HR/KO nature of the game, and partly due to my "sports energy" being tied up these days in the Marquette Shakas, I have paid less attention to baseball this spring than any time in the last 45+ years.
I actually was surprised to see a couple days ago that the season was to start today.
Hoping all those who root for teams get the results they want.
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Mets and Nationals postponed due to positive COVID-19 test on Washington.
Kinda surprised there wasn't a bigger push to vaccinate before the season started.
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Kinda surprised there wasn't a bigger push to vaccinate before the season started.
Varies by team. I know one team traveled a day early to their first road series of the season to get vaccines before the season. Their goal (which they reached) was 85% of the team.
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My expert predictions:
AL East: NYY
AL Central: CLE
AL West: HOU
AL WC: TB; CWS
NL East: ATL
NL Central: STL
NL West: LAD
NL WC: SD; CHC
World Series: NYY over LAD in 6 games
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Kinda surprised there wasn't a bigger push to vaccinate before the season started.
I've been told that the players are nowhere near the front of the line in DC.
And I totally agree with you. A lot of people's jobs depend on the players not having covid.
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My expert predictions:
AL East: NYY
AL Central: CLE
AL West: HOU
AL WC: TB; CWS
NL East: ATL
NL Central: STL
NL West: LAD
NL WC: SD; CHC
World Series: NYY over LAD in 6 games
Cubs lol I assume you took the over on Cubs wins for this season... 78.5
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Cubs lol I assume you took the over on Cubs wins for this season... 78.5
PECOTA has CHC as “tied” for the second NL WC. They have more faith in MIl, (and less in STL), than I do.
https://www.baseballprospectus.com/standings/
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Partly due to being in NC, where there is no MLB, partly due to being a little bored by the HR/KO nature of the game, and partly due to my "sports energy" being tied up these days in the Marquette Shakas, I have paid less attention to baseball this spring than any time in the last 45+ years.
I actually was surprised to see a couple days ago that the season was to start today.
Hoping all those who root for teams get the results they want.
I said to my wife yesterday morning "I wonder when opening day is...<looked on my phone>. Hey it's tomorrow!"
Maybe it's just me but there doesn't seem to be any buzz about opening day this year.
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Tigers are undefeated! Miggy closer to 500 HRs and 3000 hits.
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I said to my wife yesterday morning "I wonder when opening day is...<looked on my phone>. Hey it's tomorrow!"
Maybe it's just me but there doesn't seem to be any buzz about opening day this year.
Definitely less. I felt the same way about St Pats. Both are kind of rites of spring that are all about drinking outside before the weather is quite right for it. Not being able to gather, it just doesn't have the same oomph.
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MLB shouldn’t have started in a Thursday (ESPN could’ve done a national broadcast on A Sunday night, followed by everyone on a Monday).
It seems even stranger because there were Elite 8 games 40 hours ago. Everything is just off a bit.
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Brewers! Yelich is back!
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Yeah, I love baseball and the Sox, I was in Arizona Sunday - yesterday, while spring training was still semi going on for some teams, and it’s totally weird to me that the season is starting today.
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Brewers! Shaw Yelich is back!
fixed it.
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Okay, I've been crazy unplugged and the first game I caught of the post-pandemic era was Brewers-Twins yesterday, so I was mildly confused by (and then vaguely recalled discussions about) the "runner starts on 2nd" thing in extra innings.
My initial reactions were 1. It is going to increase the "home field" advantage. and 2. It's going to make K-dominant RPs extraordinarily valuable (more so than usual). Hader Kd the side around allowing the free runner to advance to 3rd on a wild pitch. Brewers won on a single and a fielders choice (their free runner was Cain so he had good speed, but it didn't exactly take a dominant offensive burst in the 10th to scratch a run across).
Looking at the scoreboard:
4 games went extras yesterday and none went into the 11th.
3 games were won by the home team
I'm interested to see how this plays out over a full season and a larger data set.
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Yeah I understand the intention behind the runner on second thing, but I'm not a huge fan. Its just too much a change.
It seems like a minor change, but I'd like to see the free runner start on first rather than second. There's more strategy around how to handle a runner on first - you could still try to small ball one across, but you would need either a hit or a steal to score a run. With the runner on second, you can theoretically push one across with two fielders choice groundouts to the right side or a fielders choice and a sac fly. I don't love letting a team score a game winning run without having a net-positive play.
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Yeah I understand the intention behind the runner on second thing, but I'm not a huge fan. Its just too much a change.
It seems like a minor change, but I'd like to see the free runner start on first rather than second. There's more strategy around how to handle a runner on first - you could still try to small ball one across, but you would need either a hit or a steal to score a run. With the runner on second, you can theoretically push one across with two fielders choice groundouts to the right side or a fielders choice and a sac fly. I don't love letting a team score a game winning run without having a net-positive play.
When I was thinking it through I realized that it's going to hinge a bit on who is your runner (last out of previous inning) and who is up to bat. If you've got speed at 2nd, and a decent contact hitters/bunters, then why not go small ball (especially as the home team)? Bunt, then runner on 3rd with 1 out means there are a lot of ways to win the game (squeeze, sac fly, fielder's choice w/ aggressive baserunning, any hit)?
As a strategy nerd I'm very interested to see how everyone plays it.
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(https://cdn1.thecomeback.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/eloy-jersey-832x447.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex7uUqJVcAIJwqX?format=jpg&name=small)
Lovely tributes to a deceased player at last night's Sox game.
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all my Sox fan friends were flipping those pics through the group text laughing at Eloy's memorial service.
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Okay, I've been crazy unplugged and the first game I caught of the post-pandemic era was Brewers-Twins yesterday, so I was mildly confused by (and then vaguely recalled discussions about) the "runner starts on 2nd" thing in extra innings.
My initial reactions were 1. It is going to increase the "home field" advantage. and 2. It's going to make K-dominant RPs extraordinarily valuable (more so than usual). Hader Kd the side around allowing the free runner to advance to 3rd on a wild pitch. Brewers won on a single and a fielders choice (their free runner was Cain so he had good speed, but it didn't exactly take a dominant offensive burst in the 10th to scratch a run across).
Looking at the scoreboard:
4 games went extras yesterday and none went into the 11th.
3 games were won by the home team
I'm interested to see how this plays out over a full season and a larger data set.
You do realize (I hope) that they did this last year, so there is data to look at. 60 games is not a small amount, so I'm guessing that the data will be similar to last year.
It also allows another baseball oddity that never happened until last year. 3 outs in one inning with only two batters coming to the plate.
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When I was thinking it through I realized that it's going to hinge a bit on who is your runner (last out of previous inning) and who is up to bat. If you've got speed at 2nd, and a decent contact hitters/bunters, then why not go small ball (especially as the home team)? Bunt, then runner on 3rd with 1 out means there are a lot of ways to win the game (squeeze, sac fly, fielder's choice w/ aggressive baserunning, any hit)?
As a strategy nerd I'm very interested to see how everyone plays it.
It’ll be interesting if this brings the Sac Bunt back into the game. I’m not sure if it’s just the Brewers, but the number of guys that can reasonably lay down a sac bunt is few at this point.
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Looking forward to seeing a pitcher throwing perfect game and taking a loss.
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Looking forward to seeing a pitcher throwing perfect game and taking a loss.
What would the scenarios be here?
Stolen 3rd and stolen home
Stolen 3rd and a WP or PB
Two sac flies
Stolen 3rd and sac fly
Missing any?
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You do realize (I hope) that they did this last year, so there is data to look at. 60 games is not a small amount, so I'm guessing that the data will be similar to last year.
It also allows another baseball oddity that never happened until last year. 3 outs in one inning with only two batters coming to the plate.
Like I said... super unplugged.
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I’m for it, 12 inning games are too long.
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What would the scenarios be here?
Stolen 3rd and stolen home
Stolen 3rd and a WP or PB
Two sac flies
Stolen 3rd and sac fly
Missing any?
Yeah basically getting to the 10th at 0-0 (obviously). Then some kind of sacrifice/fielder’s choice/stolen base to get the runner over to third with less than 2 outs. Then a sac fly or a squeeze.
I believe a past ball/wild pitch would put an error on the board? Forget how those are scored though. But if so that’d eliminate the perfect game.
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A passed ball or wild pitch only ruins a perfect game if it's on a third strike and it allows the batter to safely reach 1st base.
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Like I said... super unplugged.
No prob. I have gone thru the same thing - just not for that long :)
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MLB moves the All Star game out of Atlanta.
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What would the scenarios be here?
Stolen 3rd and stolen home
Stolen 3rd and a WP or PB
Two sac flies
Stolen 3rd and sac fly
Missing any?
A pitcher could “balk in a run” with a runner at 3rd.
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MLB moves the All Star game out of Atlanta.
Absolutely the right move, but I feel for the Atlanta Braves organization. They get the punishment that should be reserved for others.
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MLB moves the All Star game out of Atlanta.
Good.
In his statement, Manfred said MLB "fundamentally supports voting rights for all Americans and opposes restrictions to the ballot box." Manfred said MLB would continue to celebrate the memory of Hank Aaron, who died in January, during the All-Star festivities.
Had to do it. There was absolutely no way to celebrate Hank Aaron's life in a state that proudly resurrected Jim Crow voting laws.
Similar pressure got NC to dump its horrendous anti-LBGTQ law a few years ago, and also got Arizona to acknowledge MLK Day.
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Okay, I've been crazy unplugged and the first game I caught of the post-pandemic era was Brewers-Twins yesterday, so I was mildly confused by (and then vaguely recalled discussions about) the "runner starts on 2nd" thing in extra innings.
My initial reactions were 1. It is going to increase the "home field" advantage. and 2. It's going to make K-dominant RPs extraordinarily valuable (more so than usual). Hader Kd the side around allowing the free runner to advance to 3rd on a wild pitch. Brewers won on a single and a fielders choice (their free runner was Cain so he had good speed, but it didn't exactly take a dominant offensive burst in the 10th to scratch a run across).
I think I like it. Extra inning games can be horrible. I do think it adds excitement in a 'small ball' way during the OT. For 30 minutes yesterday, Brewer baseball was edge of seat exciting.
I do have a question. Can a pinch runner be inserted into the 'last out' slot in the batting order? Obviously you would never sub a guy like Cain out but some slow catcher might be ripe for replacement.
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I thought it was lame at first. However, it is nice to lower the chances of blowing out your entire bullpen for the rest of the series.
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I do have a question. Can a pinch runner be inserted into the 'last out' slot in the batting order? Obviously you would never sub a guy like Cain out but some slow catcher might be ripe for replacement.
You can use a pinch runner - I remember KC used Brett Phillips in a game last year.
I wonder if it would be worthwhile to keep a roster spot for a guy who's a really fast baserunner just to use in every 10th inning. It could be worth a few wins a year.
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You can use a pinch runner - I remember KC used Brett Phillips in a game last year.
I wonder if it would be worthwhile to keep a roster spot for a guy who's a really fast baserunner just to use in every 10th inning. It could be worth a few wins a year.
I'm not sure a full roster spot would need to be dedicated but as you construct your bench keeping speed in mind makes sense. Another dumb question. If the pitcher allows that runner to score, does it count against his ERA or is it unearned?
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I think I like it. Extra inning games can be horrible. I do think it adds excitement in a 'small ball' way during the OT. For 30 minutes yesterday, Brewer baseball was edge of seat exciting.
I do have a question. Can a pinch runner be inserted into the 'last out' slot in the batting order? Obviously you would never sub a guy like Cain out but some slow catcher might be ripe for replacement.
I don't like the rule. But I understand ithe necessity with COVID.
I think the rule would be significantly better if waited until to the 11 or 12 inning to start it.
I heard a Joe Torre interview last fall. He's on the MLB rules committee. He gave some stats. Something ike 73% extra innings games finished after the 10th and 85% through 11.
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Good.
In his statement, Manfred said MLB "fundamentally supports voting rights for all Americans and opposes restrictions to the ballot box." Manfred said MLB would continue to celebrate the memory of Hank Aaron, who died in January, during the All-Star festivities.
Had to do it. There was absolutely no way to celebrate Hank Aaron's life in a state that proudly resurrected Jim Crow voting laws.
Similar pressure got NC to dump its horrendous anti-LBGTQ law a few years ago, and also got Arizona to acknowledge MLK Day.
Biden is an absolute liar about the polls ending at 5pm in Georgia. Election day hours were not changed there. But regardless this decision is potentially economically devastating to primarily minorities in Atlanta and the entire state of Georgia. And 80% or more believe requiring an I.D. to vote is essential and not racist. So if you want to alienate at min 1/2 the country it was a good decision by MLB. Even Stacy Abaams thinks this is stupid if you ask her point blank.
And as for the NBA and their NBA all-star game in Charlotte a few years ago? Really? How can anyone possibly take the "values" of the NBA seriously about LGBTQ when a few months ago, a province in China, had a law passed declaring homosexuality a mental illness?? Not to mention the fact that 1.5 Uighur Muslims are being enslaved there?? You have got to be freaking kidding me. Is this a fking joke?
#Freedom for Taiwan and Hong Kong.
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Good.
In his statement, Manfred said MLB "fundamentally supports voting rights for all Americans and opposes restrictions to the ballot box." Manfred said MLB would continue to celebrate the memory of Hank Aaron, who died in January, during the All-Star festivities.
Had to do it. There was absolutely no way to celebrate Hank Aaron's life in a state that proudly resurrected Jim Crow voting laws.
Similar pressure got NC to dump its horrendous anti-LBGTQ law a few years ago, and also got Arizona to acknowledge MLK Day.
Looks like MLB read talking points from the NY Times, Stacey Abrams and repeated by Biden and others and failed to actually read the law. Maybe they should move the game to Delaware?? IBTL.
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Biden is an absolute liar about the polls ending at 5pm in Georgia. Election day hours were not changed there. But regardless this decision is potentially economically devastating to primarily minorities in Atlanta and the entire state of Georgia. And 80% or more believe requiring an I.D. to vote is essential and not racist. So if you want to alienate at min 1/2 the country it was a good decision by MLB. Even Stacy Abaams thinks this is stupid if you ask her point blank.
And as for the NBA and their NBA all-star game in Charlotte a few years ago? Really? How can anyone possibly take the "values" of the NBA seriously about LGBTQ when a few months ago, a province in China, had a law was passed declaring homosexuality a mental illness?? Not to mention the fact that 1.5 Uighur Muslims are being enslaved there?? You have got to be freaking kidding me. Is this a fking joke?
#Freedom for Taiwan and Hong Kong.
Right.
Because if you can’t do EVERYTHING, you should do nothing.
Good on MLB. Georgia’s law is the exact opposite of how a democracy should work. Interesting that the party who loves to paint one side as “Marxist” also loves to engage in anti democratic activities.
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Right.
Because if you can’t do EVERYTHING, you should do nothing.
Good on MLB. Georgia’s law is the exact opposite of how a democracy should work. Interesting that the party who loves to paint one side as “Marxist” also loves to engage in anti democratic activities.
I don’t remember people caring about Chinese human rights abuses until the NBA started taking stands. It’s a great distraction from the subject at hand.
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I don’t remember people caring about Chinese human rights abuses until the NBA started taking stands. It’s a great distraction from the subject at hand.
Really? How did that #Free Hong Kong Tweet go for Daryl Morey? Or the people that showed up for preseason games with Free Homg Kong T-Shirts? But I know Lebrom James knows way more about Geopolitics and China than someone deeply uneducated like Daryl Morey.
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Really? How did that #Free Hong Kong Tweet go for Daryl Morey? Or the people that showed up for preseason games with Free Homg Kong T-Shirts? But I know Lebrom James knows way more about Geopolitics and China than someone deeply uneducated like Daryl Morey.
Yes, one of the main causes of the average American citizen the last two decades plus has been freedom for Chinese dissidents. It’s been why businesses that have been in bed with China for decades struggle to make ends meet because of the pushback from the average American citizen and politicians standing with Chinese freedom fighters. It certainly didn’t become an issue because athletes are standing against racial injustice in the country in which they live. That’s certainly not the case at all
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Biden is an absolute liar about the polls ending at 5pm in Georgia. Election day hours were not changed there. But regardless this decision is potentially economically devastating to primarily minorities in Atlanta and the entire state of Georgia. And 80% or more believe requiring an I.D. to vote is essential and not racist. So if you want to alienate at min 1/2 the country it was a good decision by MLB. Even Stacy Abaams thinks this is stupid if you ask her point blank.
And as for the NBA and their NBA all-star game in Charlotte a few years ago? Really? How can anyone possibly take the "values" of the NBA seriously about LGBTQ when a few months ago, a province in China, had a law passed declaring homosexuality a mental illness?? Not to mention the fact that 1.5 Uighur Muslims are being enslaved there?? You have got to be freaking kidding me. Is this a fking joke?
#Freedom for Taiwan and Hong Kong.
Please provide a link of Stacey Abrams thinking this is "stupid," as all I could find was this:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/stacey-abrams-reacts-mlb-decision-move-all-star-game-out-of-georgia
Stacey Abrams applauds MLB's decision to move All-Star Game out of Georgia
The Georgia law is obviously racist, obviously trying to solve a problem that didn't exist. The Republican secretary of state said 2020 was the best-run election Georgia ever had. But sure ... let's deny people from giving water to Black folks who have to wait in line to vote.
The NBA has worked on humanitarian issues in China, far more than most U.S. corporations have. But there is still plenty of work to do, yes.
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Yes, one of the main causes of the average American citizen the last two decades plus has been freedom for Chinese dissidents. It%u2019s been why businesses that have been in bed with China for decades struggle to make ends meet because of the pushback from the average American citizen and politicians standing with Chinese freedom fighters. It certainly didn%u2019t become an issue because athletes are standing against racial injustice in the country in which they live. That%u2019s certainly not the case at all
That is correct about other American businesses but maybe we should care more about what the Chinese government continues to do? And maybe a guy like Lebron James, if he cares about actual social justice, could mention the horrific human rights violations that are going on there? Or maybe just maybe he cares about the opening numbers of Space Jam 2.
The Chinese regime impacts all of us and many companies and the NBA in particular are in bed with them. When we are more polarized and become obsessed with identity politics it hurts the USA and strengthens the Chinese Communist Govt. And beyond that why are the woke and Biden more concerned about Georgia voting loss as opposed to about 20 other states? Could it have something to do with it being a swing state? Did I miss what Biden said about Delaware and Massachusetts' voting laws?
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Please provide a link of Stacey Abrams thinking this is "stupid," as all I could find was this:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/stacey-abrams-reacts-mlb-decision-move-all-star-game-out-of-georgia
Stacey Abrams applauds MLB's decision to move All-Star Game out of Georgia
The Georgia law is obviously racist, obviously trying to solve a problem that didn't exist. The Republican secretary of state said 2020 was the best-run election Georgia ever had. But sure ... let's deny people from giving water to Black folks who have to wait in line to vote.
The NBA has worked on humanitarian issues in China, far more than most U.S. corporations have. But there is still plenty of work to do, yes.
Is it obviously racist because it closes the polls at 5:00 pm on Election Day? That can’t be it, since the polls are open until 7 and if you’re in line at 7 you still get to vote.
Is it obviously racist because it eliminates drop boxes? That can’t be it, since drop boxes are added so that all counties in Georgia now will have them when they didn’t have them in every county before this law.
Is it obviously racist because no one can bring food or water to someone in line? That can’t be it either, since the law allows people to bring their own food and water, order it to be delivered, have family or friends bring it to them, allows water stations to exist and only prevents electioneering.
Maybe it’s obviously racist because they cut down the number of days for early voting. That can’t be it either since Georgia increased the number of days for early voting.
Is it obviously racist because blacks don’t favor voter ID? That can’t be since almost 70% of black people favor voter ID.
It’s obviously racist because The NY Times and other media says it is. It’s obviously racist because Biden didn’t read the law or what is in it, rather relying on repeating talking points that fit his narrative. It’s obviously racist because Delta Airlines pops off about it for the same reason before admitting they hadn’t read the actual law.
Those who want to criticize the law can criticize it. But at least do it in a truthful way.
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That is correct about other American businesses but maybe we should care more about what the Chinese government continues to do? And maybe a guy like Lebron James, if he cares about actual social justice, could mention the horrific human rights violations that are going on there? Or maybe just maybe he cares about the opening numbers of Space Jam 2.
The Chinese regime impacts all of us and many companies and the NBA in particular are in bed with them. When we are more polarized and become obsessed with identity politics it hurts the USA and strengthens the Chinese Communist Govt. And beyond that why are the woke and Biden more concerned about Georgia voting loss as opposed to about 20 other states? Could it have something to do with it being a swing state? Did I miss what Biden said about Delaware and Massachusetts' voting laws?
The Georgia law was passed and signed by the governor, that's why. The others are still on the drawing board. But don't worry, Muggs, I'm sure several other states will try to pass racist laws in desperate attempts to marginalize Black voters.
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Is it obviously racist because it cuts closes the polls at 5:00 pm on Election Day? That can’t be it, since the polls are open until 7 and if you’re in line at 7 you still get to vote.
Is it obviously racist because it eliminates drop boxes? That can’t be it, since drop boxes are added so that all counties in Georgia now will have them when they didn’t have them in every county before this law.
Is it obviously racist because no one can bring food or water to someone in line? That can’t be it either, since the law allows people to bring their own food and water, order it to be delivered, have family or friends bring it to them, allows water stations to exist and only prevents electioneering.
Maybe it’s obviously racist because they cut down the number of days for early voting. That can’t be it either since Georgia increased the number of days for early voting.
Is it obviously racist because blacks don’t favor voter ID? That can’t be since almost 70% of black people favor voter ID.
It’s obviously racist because The NY Times and other media says it is. It’s obviously racist because Biden didn’t read the law or what is in it, rather relying on repeating talking points that fit his narrative. It’s obviously racist because Delta Airlines pops off about it for the same reason before admitting they hadn’t read the actual law.
Those who want to criticize the law can criticize it. But at least do it in a truthful way.
It is obviously an attempt to limit the Black vote, trying to correct a problem that didn't exist.
You are free to have a different opinion.
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The Georgia law was passed and signed by the governor, that's why. The others are still on the drawing board. But don't worry, Muggs, I'm sure several other states will try to pass racist laws in desperate attempts to marginalize Black voters.
Are the voing laws of NY, NJ, Mass, VT, NH, ME, Delaware, Illinois, etc, etc, etc, etc, racist?
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It is obviously an attempt to limit the Black vote, trying to correct a problem that didn't exist.
You are free to have a different opinion.
Obviously?
Because Biden, Abrams and others say it is andimmediately resorting to the R word? The law was made to give more access to voting than it did previously. It’s disingenuous to just call something racist without justification and the truth is that the law expands voting access.
I’m glad I’m entitled to my opinion, as we all are. But at least in this case, I’m basing my opinion on what the law says and not some emotional talking points from The NY Times, etc and repeated by those who those who don’t want to read what the law actually says if it doesn’t fit the day’s narrative.
Go Warriors.
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dude. seriously.
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Please provide a link of Stacey Abrams thinking this is "stupid," as all I could find was this:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/stacey-abrams-reacts-mlb-decision-move-all-star-game-out-of-georgia
Stacey Abrams applauds MLB's decision to move All-Star Game out of Georgia
The Georgia law is obviously racist, obviously trying to solve a problem that didn't exist. The Republican secretary of state said 2020 was the best-run election Georgia ever had. But sure ... let's deny people from giving water to Black folks who have to wait in line to vote.
The NBA has worked on humanitarian issues in China, far more than most U.S. corporations have. But there is still plenty of work to do, yes.
The problem the law is trying to solve definitely does exist, at least in the 2020 election.
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Obviously?
Because Biden, Abrams and others say it is andimmediately resorting to the R word? The law was made to give more access to voting than it did previously. It’s disingenuous to just call something racist without justification and the truth is that the law expands voting access.
I’m glad I’m entitled to my opinion, as we all are. But at least in this case, I’m basing my opinion on what the law says and not some emotional talking points from The NY Times, etc and repeated by those who those who don’t want to read what the law actually says if it doesn’t fit the day’s narrative.
Go Warriors.
Yes obviously. It limits the number of drop boxes per county to a per capita amount that will cause metro Atlanta to lose 2/3 of its drop boxes.
It eliminates mobile voting sites - extensively used in Fulton County last year.
Plus numerous other provisions meant to limit the voter turnout in the largest Georgia counties (ie, where most of the black people. live.)
You are entitled to your opinion. But it is an ignorant one because you are being lead around by people who feel that limiting people's participation is the only way to win. So either stay ignorant...or be smarter. Which will you choose?
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I’d like to see sides make a meaningful effort to try and improve ease/accessibility/etc... of getting IDs. I think having an ID to vote is straight forward and should be opposed by no one. The common refrains of that being discriminatory or unfair to the disenfranchised point to even bigger issue for me. Work towards something that will have a truly impactful result on the lives of those who live in the grey areas, beyond just a political play with voting.
Doing that would knock the legs out from the strongest and easiest tent pole of support from a vote like this. Arguing about IDs and giving granola bars and water bottles in line overshadow the far more subtle and misunderstood aspects that actually impact far more votes than the above
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I’d like to see sides make a meaningful effort to try and improve ease/accessibility/etc... of getting IDs. I think having an ID to vote is straight forward and should be opposed by no one. The common refrains of that being discriminatory or unfair to the disenfranchised point to even bigger issue for me. Work towards something that will have a truly impactful result on the lives of those who live in the grey areas, beyond just a political play with voting.
Doing that would knock the legs out from the strongest and easiest tent pole of support from a vote like this. Arguing about IDs and giving granola bars and water bottles in line overshadow the far more subtle and misunderstood aspects that actually impact far more votes than the above
Correct me if I’m wrong Batman, but aren’t State issued IDs free in Georgia?
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I’d like to see sides make a meaningful effort to try and improve ease/accessibility/etc... of getting IDs. I think having an ID to vote is straight forward and should be opposed by no one. The common refrains of that being discriminatory or unfair to the disenfranchised point to even bigger issue for me. Work towards something that will have a truly impactful result on the lives of those who live in the grey areas, beyond just a political play with voting.
Doing that would knock the legs out from the strongest and easiest tent pole of support from a vote like this. Arguing about IDs and giving granola bars and water bottles in line overshadow the far more subtle and misunderstood aspects that actually impact far more votes than the above
Voter ID is something I have come around on.
But blatant attempts to lilmit participation are ludicrous. We should be expanding participation by making easier for people to vote. Trying to win elections by making it harder for people to vote means that you are focusing on the wrong thing.
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I’d like to see sides make a meaningful effort to try and improve ease/accessibility/etc... of getting IDs. I think having an ID to vote is straight forward and should be opposed by no one. The common refrains of that being discriminatory or unfair to the disenfranchised point to even bigger issue for me. Work towards something that will have a truly impactful result on the lives of those who live in the grey areas, beyond just a political play with voting.
Doing that would knock the legs out from the strongest and easiest tent pole of support from a vote like this. Arguing about IDs and giving granola bars and water bottles in line overshadow the far more subtle and misunderstood aspects that actually impact far more votes than the above
How difficult is it to get an ID in Georgia and how is it different than other states?
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You guys really know how to make the MLB thread a real blast.
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How difficult is it to get an ID in Georgia and how is it different than other states?
Correct me if I’m wrong Batman, but aren’t State issues IDs free in Georgia?
I was speaking in totality. I’ve heard it in IL, in WI, in other states, and now GA. Whether it be cost or access hours or whatnot. Giving the benefit of the doubt that it is indeed a systemic issue for substantial groups of people, that should be tackled head on instead of being justified away as unnecessary and discriminatory.
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I like baseball and would enjoy discussing baseball. Anyone know where I might do so?
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Fair enough. My apologies.
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Correct me if I’m wrong Batman, but aren’t State issued IDs free in Georgia?
You are right........and wrong. If you can provide proof of valid voter registration they are free. If not they are $32.
I’m guessing that the majority of those needing a state ID are going to have a hard time with the voter registration requirement.
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I like baseball and would enjoy discussing baseball. Anyone know where I might do so?
Bauer is really dealin' on the mound tonight. And pimpin' as he strolls back to the dugout.
No hitter thru 6.
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The problem the law is trying to solve definitely does exist, at least in the 2020 election.
Excellent point.
The problem was that what Georgia’s own Republican Secretary of State called a fair and fraud-free election resulted in far more Black folks voting than one party cared to see.
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Excellent point.
The problem was that what Georgia’s own Republican Secretary of State called a fair and fraud-free election resulted in far more Black folks voting than one party cared to see.
Which led to the wrong team winning for this first time in forever.
That’s the problem.
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Maybe the NCAA should follow MLBs lead and strip MU of its National Championship while we're at it.
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Is it obviously racist because it closes the polls at 5:00 pm on Election Day? That can’t be it, since the polls are open until 7 and if you’re in line at 7 you still get to vote.
Is it obviously racist because it eliminates drop boxes? That can’t be it, since drop boxes are added so that all counties in Georgia now will have them when they didn’t have them in every county before this law.
Is it obviously racist because no one can bring food or water to someone in line? That can’t be it either, since the law allows people to bring their own food and water, order it to be delivered, have family or friends bring it to them, allows water stations to exist and only prevents electioneering.
Maybe it’s obviously racist because they cut down the number of days for early voting. That can’t be it either since Georgia increased the number of days for early voting.
Is it obviously racist because blacks don’t favor voter ID? That can’t be since almost 70% of black people favor voter ID.
It’s obviously racist because The NY Times and other media says it is. It’s obviously racist because Biden didn’t read the law or what is in it, rather relying on repeating talking points that fit his narrative. It’s obviously racist because Delta Airlines pops off about it for the same reason before admitting they hadn’t read the actual law.
Those who want to criticize the law can criticize it. But at least do it in a truthful way.
I won't completely derail the baseball topic here, but this really is a load of disingenuous crap.
Also, fun to see some of the biggest whiners about "cancel culture" calling for the cancellation of MLB's antitrust exemption and tax benefits for corporations that don't fall in line.
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Maybe the NCAA should follow MLBs lead and strip MU of its National Championship while we're at it.
Tell me you don't get it without telling me you don't get it.
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I won't completely derail the baseball topic here, but this really is a load of disingenuous crap.
Also, fun to see some of the biggest whiners about "cancel culture" calling for the cancellation of MLB's antitrust exemption and tax benefits for corporations that don't fall in line.
Which...is actually a good thing?
(I’m so confused...)
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Tell me you don't get it without telling me you don't get it.
Did I strike a nerve?
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Did I strike a nerve?
Do you have a grandson named Owen?
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Guy's I heard of this new game that a fellow named Doubleday came up with it's really the tops! One young man takes a small ball that is quite hard and stitched together and pitches it toward another young man who waits with a large stick, (some of the boys are calling them 'bats'). In any case, if the sticksman (you know, 'batsman' does roll off the tongue quite better) is able to strike the ball and keep it between two lines of play he attempts to round a series of bases, rounding all of the bases scores a point. It's all the rage. We really ought find a place to discuss this wild new game!
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Guy's I heard of this new game that a fellow named Doubleday came up with it's really the tops! One young man takes a small ball that is quite hard and stitched together and pitches it toward another young man who waits with a large stick, (some of the boys are calling them 'bats'). In any case, if the sticksman (you know, 'batsman' does roll off the tongue quite better) is able to strike the ball and keep it between two lines of play he attempts to round a series of bases, rounding all of the bases scores a point. It's all the rage. We really ought find a place to discuss this wild new game!
You could post about an actual baseball topic instead of complaining (again) about the lack of baseball topics.
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You could post about an actual baseball topic instead of complaining (again) about the lack of baseball topics.
You could keep tempting fate by talking about politics and trying to get the thread locked. Ya know, whatever works for ya.
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You could keep tempting fate by talking about politics and trying to get the thread locked. Ya know, whatever works for ya.
Sir, this is a baseball thread.
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Jack Leiter’s attempt to not give up a hit in 3 straight SEC starts came to an end in the middle of a start vs LSU last night. 20.2 straight SEC innings without allowing a hit, and striking out 39. Improves to 7-0, 0.22 E.R.A. with 71 K’s in 41 innings.
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Jack Leiter’s attempt to not give up a hit in 3 straight SEC starts came to an end in the middle of a start vs LSU last night. 20.2 straight SEC innings without allowing a hit, and striking out 39. Improves to 7-0, 0.22 E.R.A. with 71 K’s in 41 innings.
Pretty amazing. Did I hear the announcer say he was drafted in the 20th round last year? I'm guessing he'll go a little higher this time!
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Pretty amazing. Did I hear the announcer say he was drafted in the 20th round last year? I'm guessing he'll go a little higher this time!
Leiter would have been a 1st round pick out of high school but he told everyone he was going to college. The Yankees drafted him in the 20th round anyway. In college baseball you have to either go pro out of high school, or commit to 3 years before being eligible again for the draft, or you must be 21 years old. Last year was his first year, a shortened season where he was a midweek starter. This is his first full college season.
Two of his teammates did the same thing by going to college. Kumar Rocker is their #1 starter. He decided to go to college. And they also have a 17 year old Freshman pitcher, Christian Little that would have been a strong draft pick as well.
Rocker is in his 3rd season. He was on a National Title Team as Freshman two years ago. He is expected to be #1 pick in the draft by Pittsburgh, or close to it.
Leiter will have to see where he is at and what he wants to do as he will be 21 in late April, and, therefore draft eligible this summer, despite not having had as many college seasons.
College baseball is interesting because when you recruit, many kids will commit but then go pro instead when they get drafted out of high school. Others choose college first vs going minor league route. Leiter’s college team has a winning track record and culture where they are able to get some good players to go to college first, and enjoy the whole college experience and develop. They have a high school shortstop commit out of Dallas Jesuit who will be a top few pick in first round of draft.(Jordan Lawlar) He has a big decision to make. You get some but not others.
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I have all kinds of concerns about the White Sox defense. And that’s without Eloy in the field.
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Reds' and Cardinals' dugouts emptied
https://mobile.twitter.com/BallySportsCIN/status/1378464080445505540
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Leiter would have been a 1st round pick out of high school but he told everyone he was going to college. The Yankees drafted him in the 20th round anyway. In college baseball you have to either go pro out of high school, or commit to 3 years before being eligible again for the draft, or you must be 21 years old. Last year was his first year, a shortened season where he was a midweek starter. This is his first full college season.
Two of his teammates did the same thing by going to college. Kumar Rocker is their #1 starter. He decided to go to college. And they also have a 17 year old Freshman pitcher, Christian Little that would have been a strong draft pick as well.
Rocker is in his 3rd season. He was on a National Title Team as Freshman two years ago. He is expected to be #1 pick in the draft by Pittsburgh, or close to it.
Leiter will have to see where he is at and what he wants to do as he will be 21 in late April, and, therefore draft eligible this summer, despite not having had as many college seasons.
College baseball is interesting because when you recruit, many kids will commit but then go pro instead when they get drafted out of high school. Others choose college first vs going minor league route. Leiter’s college team has a winning track record and culture where they are able to get some good players to go to college first, and enjoy the whole college experience and develop. They have a high school shortstop commit out of Dallas Jesuit who will be a top few pick in first round of draft.(Jordan Lawler) He will likely go pro. You get some but not others.
Yes, I like the relative freedom college baseball players have.
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Reds' and Cardinals' dugouts emptied
https://mobile.twitter.com/BallySportsCIN/status/1378464080445505540
Not much there. Wild Pitch close play at plate, Castellanos stood over the pitcher who was on the ground (Woodford) after sliding for tag, and woofed after being safe. (He was HBP by this pitcher earlier) and opposing team isn’t going to let you stand over a player and woof. Player gets up, Castellanos backs up a mile. Benches clear. Castellanos only ejection.
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Guy's I heard of this new game that a fellow named Doubleday came up with it's really the tops! One young man takes a small ball that is quite hard and stitched together and pitches it toward another young man who waits with a large stick, (some of the boys are calling them 'bats'). In any case, if the sticksman (you know, 'batsman' does roll off the tongue quite better) is able to strike the ball and keep it between two lines of play he attempts to round a series of bases, rounding all of the bases scores a point. It's all the rage. We really ought find a place to discuss this wild new game!
Report it to the mods.
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Not much there. Wild Pitch close play at plate, Castellanos stood over the pitcher who was on the ground (Woodford) after sliding for tag, and woofed after being safe. (He was HBP by this pitcher earlier) and opposing team isn’t going to let you stand over a player and woof. Player gets up, Castellanos backs up a mile. Benches clear. Castellanos only ejection.
That’s a hilariously generous Cards tinted view. Castellanos talked smack, and started to walk to the dugout, Molina came after him cause something something unwritten rules. Both the ump and India pull/push Castellanos away. I get why Castellanos was tossed, but to act like he ran away, especially from a pitcher, is just not true. He was fired up from scoring, not incensed and wanting to scrap, why would he run back in there. The Cards and Reds running in who weren’t involved in the play are more ridiculous.
This is also why baseball is stupid. Nobody can take being flexed on or shown up.
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I hate the Cards. But that was ridiculous of Castellanos.
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I hate the Cards. But that was ridiculous or Castellanos.
It was totally dumb. I liked him handing the ball back after getting plunked, that was funny. But flexing was dumb, especially in a game that wasn’t close.
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That’s a hilariously generous Cards tinted view. Castellanos talked smack, and started to walk to the dugout, Molina came after him cause something something unwritten rules. Both the ump and India pull/push Castellanos away. I get why Castellanos was tossed, but to act like he ran away, especially from a pitcher, is just not true. He was fired up from scoring, not incensed and wanting to scrap, why would he run back in there. The Cards and Reds running in who weren’t involved in the play are more ridiculous.
This is also why baseball is stupid. Nobody can take being flexed on or shown up.
Castellanos overreacted to getting hit by the pitch earlier in the game. After getting hit by the pitch, he overreacted by tossing the ball back to the pitcher. Later when scoring from 3rd on a wild pitch, he stood over the pitcher (who slid in for the tag) and woofed at him.
"Why would he go back in there?" Well because he was the one who created something out of nothing. When others were not on the ground, or standing, or approaching, he wasn't all that interested in woofing any longer.
No team is going to put up with that.
After the game, a not so woofy Castellanos said, "That guy (Molina) could have punched me in the face and I still would have asked him for a signed jersey."
Your obsession and angst with all things St. Louis continues.
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Your obsession and angst with all things St. Louis continues.
;D ;D ;D I’ll accept that if you acknowledge the same holds true for you on the polar opposite end of the spectrum. You might as well be on the tourism board
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Arietta had a great day for the Cubs. Whose on Wades alert? ;D
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Well clearly Jake got back with his steroid plug when he returned to the North Side
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I’ll have whatever Yermin is having...good lord what an MLB start.
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;D ;D ;D I’ll accept that if you acknowledge the same holds true for you on the polar opposite end of the spectrum. You might as well be on the tourism board
Someone posted about a baseball bench clearing incident. I happened to see it. I said there wasn’t much to it. Castellanos multiple times created something out of nothing, until others decided to take him up on his offer. Then he backed down. Castellanos was the only player ejected from the game. After the game, Castellanos was appreciative that a specific opposing player didn’t punch him in the face, and he wanted a signed jersey of that opposing player.
Someone else (BLM) posted that they hate the Cardinals, but confirmed what I had said about the incident.
Somehow this is a “hilariously generous Cards tinted view” and on the “tourism board.” New example, same thing.
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Yea and the Tennis thread is a vibrant back and forth and not you just talking to yourself. You’re a knowledgeable guy but you have no self awareness. All good 8-)
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I really dislike the extra inning rule. So little league.
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As a guy who dislikes 4- and 5-hour baseball games, especially in the regular season, I love the runner-on-second rule. No worse than shootouts in hockey and soccer, which have become widely accepted after initially being criticized.
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As a guy who dislikes 4- and 5-hour baseball games, especially in the regular season, I love the runner-on-second rule. No worse than shootouts in hockey and soccer, which have become widely accepted after initially being criticized.
I agree the game today is too long. As a kid my dad or uncle would takes us to a 1 pm Sunday double header and we be home by 8pm including the 1 hour train ride home. The game has slowed down because of the revolving door of relief pitchers. No one pitches complete games anymore. Add the runner-on-second rule, but don't add the DH rule for the NL seems so haphazard.
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I agree the game today is too long. As a kid my dad or uncle would takes us to a 1 pm Sunday double header and we be home by 8pm including the 1 hour train ride home. The game has slowed down because of the revolving door of relief pitchers. No one pitches complete games anymore. Add the runner-on-second rule, but don't add the DH rule for the NL seems so haphazard.
I actually like one league having the DH and the other not, but it's not a deal-breaker for me and I could definitely see having DH in both leagues. It would make sense.
I can't remember the last time I turned on a ballgame at the first pitch and watched until the final out. Heck, or even the last time I watched 3 straight innings of a game.
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As a guy who dislikes 4- and 5-hour baseball games, especially in the regular season, I love the runner-on-second rule. No worse than shootouts in hockey and soccer, which have become widely accepted after initially being criticized.
The first game with the new rule I watched went to the 13th as both teams scored in the 10th and then neither in the 11th and then both scored in the 12th. It was kind of hilarious. But by an large it gets things moving and forces aggressive decisions which I appreciate
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Speed up the game? Why not load the bases every inning; however each team would only get 1 out per inning. Game would be over in less than hour and except for the home team with a lead every batter would be guaranteed an at bat.
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Speed up the game? Why not load the bases every inning; however each team would only get 1 out per inning. Game would be over in less than hour and except for the home team with a lead every batter would be guaranteed an at bat.
Sure. Or just flip a coin at home plate before the game and the winner gets the W.
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Red Sox...woof.
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Red Sox...woof.
Will they finish ahead of Baltimore? ;D
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Is it obviously racist because it closes the polls at 5:00 pm on Election Day? That can’t be it, since the polls are open until 7 and if you’re in line at 7 you still get to vote.
Is it obviously racist because it eliminates drop boxes? That can’t be it, since drop boxes are added so that all counties in Georgia now will have them when they didn’t have them in every county before this law.
Is it obviously racist because no one can bring food or water to someone in line? That can’t be it either, since the law allows people to bring their own food and water, order it to be delivered, have family or friends bring it to them, allows water stations to exist and only prevents electioneering.
Maybe it’s obviously racist because they cut down the number of days for early voting. That can’t be it either since Georgia increased the number of days for early voting.
Is it obviously racist because blacks don’t favor voter ID? That can’t be since almost 70% of black people favor voter ID.
It’s obviously racist because The NY Times and other media says it is. It’s obviously racist because Biden didn’t read the law or what is in it, rather relying on repeating talking points that fit his narrative. It’s obviously racist because Delta Airlines pops off about it for the same reason before admitting they hadn’t read the actual law.
Those who want to criticize the law can criticize it. But at least do it in a truthful way.
Thank you. +1000
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Thank you. +1000
Lol... For what? Stating falsehoods that were already shown to be wrong?
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Thank you. +1000
A series of non negotiable facts:
1 - GA goes D for Prez and both Senate seats
2 - Historic Black voter turnout is the primary driving force
3 - GA election results are certified by R election officials
4 - GA election results are challenged
5 - GA election results are audited and verified
6 - GA election results are challenged in the legal system
7 - Challenges fail to prove any issue with voting process, or fraud, or unlawful rules, etc.
8 - GA R state legislature responds by changing the voting rules/laws
Throw these non negotiable facts under the umbrella of "the more people who vote the less chance R's win" and you can see why, collectively, it is viewed as racist.
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Sure. Or just flip a coin at home plate before the game the 10th inning and the winner gets the W.
FIFY
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Maybe Ohtani is the legend he was purported to be.
Tonight he threw the fastest pitch recorded this season and hit the hardest ball so far.
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Well, this is an interesting 5th inning in Anaheim.
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Angels tried real, real hard to lose that game ... but the White Sox just wouldn't let them.
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It’s only four games, but this Sox team has a lot of problems. One of the bigger ones is Yoan Moncada is no bueno.
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Castellanos overreacted to getting hit by the pitch earlier in the game. After getting hit by the pitch, he overreacted by tossing the ball back to the pitcher. Later when scoring from 3rd on a wild pitch, he stood over the pitcher (who slid in for the tag) and woofed at him.
"Why would he go back in there?" Well because he was the one who created something out of nothing. When others were not on the ground, or standing, or approaching, he wasn't all that interested in woofing any longer.
No team is going to put up with that.
After the game, a not so woofy Castellanos said, "That guy (Molina) could have punched me in the face and I still would have asked him for a signed jersey."
Your obsession and angst with all things St. Louis continues.
And on Sunday Castellanos overreacted by hitting a 3 run homer and a triple . His statement about Jadier was a statement of respect. "He's a boss".
11 years ago the Reds and Cards had a big brawl culminating in a incident between Johnny Cueto and Jason La Rue. 11 years later they do it again. And the same fellow triggered both brawls- Jadier Molina.
Castellanos went 6 for 11 in the series, scoring six runs and driving in five. He homered twice, tripled and doubled. Next time, might want to pitch around that Greek.
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And on Sunday Castellanos overreacted by hitting a 3 run homer and a triple . His statement about Jadier was a statement of respect. "He's a boss".
11 years ago the Reds and Cards had a big brawl culminating in a incident between Johnny Cueto and Jason La Rue. 11 years later they do it again. And the same fellow triggered both brawls- Jadier Molina.
Castellanos went 6 for 11 in the series, scoring six runs and driving in five. He homered twice, tripled and doubled. Next time, might want to pitch around that Greek.
11 years is a long time to carry your Yadier Molina angst. I get it. Or, is it 17? 17 completed seasons, 16 winning records, 11 playoff appearances, 4 NL Pennants, 2 World Series Titles all in that time. That's tough take when the Reds have had 4 winning records, 4 playoff appearances, 0 NL Pennants, 0 World Series Titles in that same 17 seasons. This might be his last season before is HOF wait time, so you have that at least. I heard Molina hired Wojo and changed the name to Golden Eagles too.
If one woofs, one has to be prepared to be taken up on it. This is universal in life.
11 years ago, Brandon Phillips went on rants about hating a team, calling them names, bitches etc...and then he went out the next day in person all smiles and tapped the opposing team's catcher twice with his bat, even after Molina asked him not to do so. What did you think would happen?
Saturday Castellanos tossed a ball back to a pitcher after being HBP, and later stood over a player that was on the ground and woofed. What did you think would happen? (By the way, Nolan Arenado is the player that wanted to take a stroll with Castellanos)
But the Reds have a 2-1 record after 3 games, their 5th winning record in the past two decades. Stop the count.
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Teams need to to respect St. Louis and learn to play baseball the Cardinal”s way. Then Molina wouldn’t be required to police everyone else.
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Going to great lengths to prove that Molina isn't a douche. Spoiler, he is.
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Molina's getting long in the tooth, but I'd have taken him on my team for his great career. A winner.
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Molina's getting long in the tooth, but I'd have taken him on my team for his great career. A winner.
He definitely has some...shall we say, *interesting*...ways of being a great defensive catcher. Balls miraculously seem to just stick to his chest protector when he's blocking baseballs. Pitchers have to absolutely love knowing the ball will never go anywhere if they bounce one when Yadi is behind the plate.
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Going to great lengths to prove that Molina isn't a douche. Spoiler, he is.
"If the cubs had a choice between the brewers missing the playoffs or the cards losing their 100 game. We'd choose the cards losing 100."
It's been a long 17 seasons for you. (or really a long century) I understand.
I heard Molina thinks Marquette University is in Michigan.
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He definitely has some...shall we say, *interesting*...ways of being a great defensive catcher. Balls miraculously seem to just stick to his chest protector when he's blocking baseballs. Pitchers have to absolutely love knowing the ball will never go anywhere if they bounce one when Yadi is behind the plate.
Not following you, wades.
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Not following you, wades.
You have to first open with Cubs or Brewers? (Although there was a rare nature channel like sighting today of a Cincinnati Reds fan) The rest of MLB across the country is indifferent.
I believe he is attributing Molina's success the past 17 seasons to bending the rules, in particular, by putting a foreign substance on his chest protector...if I am reading that correctly. He may even post a clip of a ball being stuck to his chest protector if you're lucky. (Fingers crossed)
i heard Yadier Molina is the reason Marquette doesn't have a Division 1 Baseball Program.
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I believe he is attributing Molina's success the past 17 seasons to bending the rules, in particular, by putting a foreign substance on his chest protector...if I am reading that correctly. He may even post a clip of a ball being stuck to his chest protector if you're lucky. (Fingers crossed)
Ah. I'm not gonna get involved in your argument with wades. All I said was I'd have taken Yadi Molina on my team most of the last two decades, and I'll stay with that.
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Ah. I'm not gonna get involved in your argument with wades. All I said was I'd have taken Yadi Molina on my team most of the last two decades, and I'll stay with that.
I am not in an argument. 👍 I am not bothered by Molina, or the Cardinals, or the Cubs, or the Brewers, or any any other MLB team.
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11 years is a long time to carry your Yadier Molina angst. I get it. Or, is it 17? 17 completed seasons, 16 winning records, 11 playoff appearances, 4 NL Pennants, 2 World Series Titles all in that time. That's tough take when the Reds have had 4 winning records, 4 playoff appearances, 0 NL Pennants, 0 World Series Titles in that same 17 seasons. This might be his last season before is HOF wait time, so you have that at least. I heard Molina hired Wojo and changed the name to Golden Eagles too.
If one woofs, one has to be prepared to be taken up on it. This is universal in life.
11 years ago, Brandon Phillips went on rants about hating a team, calling them names, bitches etc...and then he went out the next day in person all smiles and tapped the opposing team's catcher twice with his bat, even after Molina asked him not to do so. What did you think would happen?
Saturday Castellanos tossed a ball back to a pitcher after being HBP, and later stood over a player that was on the ground and woofed. What did you think would happen? (By the way, Nolan Arenado is the player that wanted to take a stroll with Castellanos)
But the Reds have a 2-1 record after 3 games, their 5th winning record in the past two decades. Stop the count.
Damn the torpedoes , full spleen ahead. You've got me all wrong, Sparky , Yadier could play on my team any day. He's no Bench of course, but he'll do.
That being said, upon further review, the whiny Redbirds still suck.
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Teams need to to respect St. Louis and learn to play baseball the Cardinal”s way. Then Molina wouldn’t be required to police everyone else.
Playing baseball the Cardinals' way:
https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/chicago-cubs/cardinals-slapped-heavy-penalties-mlb-hacking-scandal
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Damn the torpedoes , full spleen ahead. You've got me all wrong, Sparky , Yadier could play on my team any day. He's no Bench of course, but he'll do.
That being said, upon further review, the whiny Redbirds still suck.
Hmm...with his 382nd career double tonight, in Miami, Yadier Molina has moved into 8th place all time for Doubles by an MLB Catcher, surpassing, wait for it, Johnny Bench.
Molina was seen standing on 2nd base, appearing to thank MUScoop for their continued support. 👍✌️
https://twitter.com/cardinals/status/1379208021927149576?s=21
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Hmm...with his 382nd career double tonight, in Miami, Yadier Molina has moved into 8th place all time for Doubles by an MLB Catcher, surpassing, wait for it, Johnny Bench.
Molina was seen standing on 2nd base, appearing to thank MUScoop for their continued support. 👍✌️
https://twitter.com/cardinals/status/1379208021927149576?s=21
kudos to Molina but like George Anderson said after sweeping the Yankees in the 76 series: "Don't embarrass another ballplayer by trying to compare him to Johnny bench".
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MLB all star game to be player in denver at coors field
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31200573/coors-field-expected-host-2021-mlb-all-star-game-sources-say
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kudos to Molina but like George Anderson said after sweeping the Yankees in the 76 series: "Don't embarrass another ballplayer by trying to compare him to Johnny bench".
There is not one thing that Molina does better than Bench.
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There is not one thing that Molina does better than Bench.
I can think of one: Yadi has been more durable and therefore able to play catcher even as an old man.
I really like Yadi as a ballplayer, but only people who never saw Johnny Bench play would mention Yadi in the same breath.
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I can think of one: Yadi has been more durable and therefore able to play catcher even as an old man.
I really like Yadi as a ballplayer, but only people who never saw Johnny Bench play would mention Yadi in the same breath.
Yadier Molina and Johnny Bench have played the same number of seasons, 17.
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Fernando Tatis, Jr. went down tonight with what looked like a wrist injury after a swing and a miss. Looked bad.
Re Yadier Molina - very good player with longevity that aids his legacy. Not remotely close to Johnny Bench, though.
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Yadier Molina and Johnny Bench have played the same number of seasons, 17.
As a 30-year-old, Bench caught only 107 games. At 31, he caught 126. At 32, he caught 105. And then, at age 33, he became an infielder, appearing as a catcher in only 13 more games for the rest of his career.
At 33, Molina caught 147 games and received MVP votes. At 34, Molina caught 136 games and was an All-Star. At 35, Molina caught 123 games and won the NL Gold Glove.
At 36, Molina caught 113 regular-season games and 9 more in the postseason. At 36, Bench was retired.
I stand by my point.
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JB really wore down during his later years. It might sound stupid talking about the greatest catcher who ever lived but I wonder what numbers he would have put up if he had played another position. Wonder the same thing about Posey.
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JB really wore down during his later years. It might sound stupid talking about the greatest catcher who ever lived but I wonder what numbers he would have put up if he had played another position. Wonder the same thing about Posey.
Happens to a lot of catchers. Munson was playing in the outfield and infield near the end of his career (and life). Joe Mauer couldn't catch any more and became a bad, incredibly overpaid first baseman. Etc. It's amazing that guys like Fisk, Boone and Molina could still play catcher so late in their careers.
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If I had a younger catcher who could hit I'd give him a first baseman's mitt and tell him to take some grounders. Let Del Crandall, Jerry Grote , and Joe Girardi go behind the plate and run things. Put your big hitters some place where they're not going to get banged up.
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Happens to a lot of catchers. Munson was playing in the outfield and infield near the end of his career (and life). Joe Mauer couldn't catch any more and became a bad, incredibly overpaid first baseman. Etc. It's amazing that guys like Fisk, Boone and Molina could still play catcher so late in their careers.
Mauer actually had a decent year in 2016 and then a really nice year in 2017 on his way out, but he was paid like an MVP candidate for 7-8 years after he stopped being one. Those seasons in 2014 and 2015 were brutal, especially given how good he was from 2008-2013
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Mauer actually had a decent year in 2016 and then a really nice year in 2017 on his way out, but he was paid like an MVP candidate for 7-8 years after he stopped being one. Those seasons in 2014 and 2015 were brutal, especially given how good he was from 2008-2013
Yeah, and I don't blame Mauer. Or the Twins, really. What choice did they have? He was a stud who had an especially amazing season in his walk year. He was a hometown boy. The Twins HAD to keep him. And while it sounds crazy, he actually did give the Twins a pretty good discount. Injuries suck. I enjoyed watching him play when he was healthy.
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I'd like to unsubscribe to yadi molina daily facts.
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As a 30-year-old, Bench caught only 107 games. At 31, he caught 126. At 32, he caught 105. And then, at age 33, he became an infielder, appearing as a catcher in only 13 more games for the rest of his career.
At 33, Molina caught 147 games and received MVP votes. At 34, Molina caught 136 games and was an All-Star. At 35, Molina caught 123 games and won the NL Gold Glove.
At 36, Molina caught 113 regular-season games and 9 more in the postseason. At 36, Bench was retired.
I stand by my point.
It's easier to hit when one isn't catching. And, being able to play at high or higher level is something to be celebrated. Do you say Sampras would have won more Grand Slams in tennis had he played longer? I haven't seen it. Instead what players in their 30's such as Nadal, whom you like, can do is celebrated as they get older in their careers. There is no asterisk there. That's part ot sports. Players of one generation aren't better than another or worse because they don't get to play under the same circumstances. One can be the best or one of the best in one's era.
As you are aware, I don't compare eras. i don't do it in basketball, tennis, soccer, football, baseball, any sport, because all players can't play in all eras under the same circumstances.
Johnny Bench was a great player in his era, as was Molina in his. Bench has often praised Molina, and was quick to offer congratulations when Molina reached his innings caught milestone in 2018.
As for the original part of the discussion, in sports, or in life, if you woof at someone, (and put your hands on them or near them) be prepared for that person or those people to respond and take you up on it.
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How would Jonathan Lucroy have fared if he were moved to the infield earlier? I think quite well. Now I believe he is out of baseball, less than five years after being hot trade property.
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Yadier Molina couldn’t hold Bench’s jock
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So, it sounds like the main point in this discussion is that Molina has been a douch@ for a really long time.
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Yadier Molina couldn’t hold Bench’s jock
I don’t believe he’d want to as that sounds unpleasant.
Let’s see, Brewers or Cubs? I will guess Brewers.
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A little nervous about the start for the Brewers. Hiura looks like he has a hole in his bat.
Seems to be same issues that plagued them last year. Lots of strikeouts and too many innings of not putting pressure on the starting pitcher. Obviously, it’s incredibly early, but not a great start.
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How would Jonathan Lucroy have fared if he were moved to the infield earlier? I think quite well. Now I believe he is out of baseball, less than five years after being hot trade property.
Nats due to the virus.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/nationals-jonathan-lucroy-could-start-tuesday/amp/
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Brewers reportedly dealing Arcia to the Braves. Haven't seen exactly what the terms are but there's one reporter tweeting that they got two pitchers in return. Interesting move, wouldn't have figured stockpiling arms on a team that can't hit would be the play, but <shrug> what do I know.
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Brewers reportedly dealing Arcia to the Braves. Haven't seen exactly what the terms are but there's one reporter tweeting that they got two pitchers in return. Interesting move, wouldn't have figured stockpiling arms on a team that can't hit would be the play, but <shrug> what do I know.
Maybe the pitchers are an upgrade with the bat.
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I don’t believe he’d want to as that sounds unpleasant.
Let’s see, Brewers or Cubs? I will guess Brewers.
Molina has a career WAR of 40, Bench has 75. Molina is 24th all-time.
He’s had a truly great career and one of the Cardinals greats. No one, and I mean no one whose opinion matters would ever take or even remotely consider taking Molina over Johnny Bench
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Molina has a career WAR of 40, Bench has 75. Molina is 24th all-time.
He’s had a truly great career and one of the Cardinals greats. No one, and I mean no one whose opinion matters would ever take or even remotely consider taking Molina over Johnny Bench
Actually, Molina has a 54.5 WAR (Fangraphs) See the difference there. And, WAR is not a be all end all stat, especially so with catchers Many things are not included in catcher WAR such as pitch framing game management, and several other things. The fielding component of catcher WAR is compromised of two things: 1) Stolen Base runs saved 2) Runs saved from past pitches. That's it. Catcher WAR is the least precise of any position.
For example, runners not stealing isn't going to show up in Molina's WAR. There have been about 450 less attempts to steal vs Molina than any other team. (450 is the difference between the next best team) And so on, to go along with lowest stealing % and fewest stolen bases. And that's just one category.
As I stated before, I don't compare players or teama of different eras, because all players can't play in all eras at the same time.
But if you do find yourself in a discussion with someone else, you may want to be more thorough than throwing out a catcher WAR stat.
You could have simply said "Brewers."
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Brewers reportedly dealing Arcia to the Braves. Haven't seen exactly what the terms are but there's one reporter tweeting that they got two pitchers in return. Interesting move, wouldn't have figured stockpiling arms on a team that can't hit would be the play, but <shrug> what do I know.
A bad hitter. Not real good defensively. Getting 2 power arms (bullpen guys) is probably more than could be expected.
Probably won't make a difference one way or the other.
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I hope we can all find us someone who looks at us the same way shoothoops looks at Molina.
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Imagine thinking the only people who don’t think Molina is the greatest are salty Brewers and Cubs fans ;D Cardinal fan delusional condescension is truly unchecked
Tatis’ injury doesn’t look good at all. Hope early prognosis are more severe than reality, he’s too much fun
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Imagine thinking the only people who don’t think Molina is the greatest are salty Brewers and Cubs fans ;D Cardinal fan delusional condescension is truly unchecked
Tatis’ injury doesn’t look good at all. Hope early prognosis are more severe than reality, he’s too much fun
No. There was a Cincinnati Reds fan too, which is the origin of the current Molina topic. Someone mentioned the Castellanos incident. I believe even you said, "Flexing was dumb" when another pointed out to you what had exactly happened.
Then the inevitable Molina troll posts follow, as well as Molina isn't this or that. Those posts are often from tribal portions of the Cubs and Brewers fan bases, whose teams have not had as much success historically as Molina and his teams. Many of the non tribal portions of fan bases don't get so easily triggered and bothered and are often indifferent to that.
One could say with the Brewers it didn't exist prior to joining the National League, in particular, the National League Central. But, you'd be surprised how many people never got over 1982 as well.
With the Cubs, well, that goes back a hundred and twenty five years or more.
With you in particular, your tribal scapegoating goes beyond one player or team, to an entire metro area on a regular/frequent basis, and often clouds your objectivity. You are not alone however.
Whatever works. 👍
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It's really amazing how the Cardinal fans on this board posses every stereotype generally attributed to Cardinal fans.
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It's really amazing how the Cardinal fans on this board posses every stereotype generally attributed to Cardinal fans.
I had to make sure I wasn’t reading @BestFansStLouis.
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With you in particular, your tribal scapegoating goes beyond one player or team, to an entire metro area on a regular/frequent basis, and often clouds your objectivity. You are not alone however.
Whatever works. 👍
I have nothing, zero, nada against STL. I chirp about the Cardinals, especially with Dgies, in the past, sure. I have 2 serious GFs from my 20s who were from STL, one of my closest friends from HS went to SLU, I’ve visited numerous times. The whole basis for your “tribal scapegoating” claim is cause I have the temerity to push back on your constant defense and know it all attitude about the city. Whether it be the Moser/Majerus SLU years, or recruiting, or the Cardinals, or food, whatever. You love it, that’s fine, but you need to prove it and talk down to everyone about it. Again, no self awareness.
But that’s fine, we humbly bask in your knowledge and anything we disagree with is surely due to a lack of supreme understanding and specific facts which you of course undoubtably possess. Whatever works
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I have nothing, zero, nada against STL. I chirp about the Cardinals, especially with Dgies, in the past, sure. I have 2 serious GFs from my 20s who were from STL, one of my closest friends from HS went to SLU, I’ve visited numerous times. The whole basis for your “tribal scapegoating” claim is cause I have the temerity to push back on your constant defense and know it all attitude about the city. Whether it be the Moser/Majerus SLU years, or recruiting, or the Cardinals, or food, whatever. You love it, that’s fine, but you need to prove it and talk down to everyone about it. Again, no self awareness.
But that’s fine, we humbly bask in your knowledge and anything we disagree with is surely due to a lack of supreme understanding and specific facts which you of course undoubtably possess. Whatever works
The St Louis inferiority complex is very strong with many from that city.
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I stand corrected. Molina is garbage and definitely couldn’t carry Bench’s jock in the 70’s or today
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I have nothing, zero, nada against STL. I chirp about the Cardinals, especially with Dgies, in the past, sure. I have 2 serious GFs from my 20s who were from STL, one of my closest friends from HS went to SLU, I’ve visited numerous times. The whole basis for your “tribal scapegoating” claim is cause I have the temerity to push back on your constant defense and know it all attitude about the city. Whether it be the Moser/Majerus SLU years, or recruiting, or the Cardinals, or food, whatever. You love it, that’s fine, but you need to prove it and talk down to everyone about it. Again, no self awareness.
But that’s fine, we humbly bask in your knowledge and anything we disagree with is surely due to a lack of supreme understanding and specific facts which you of course undoubtably possess. Whatever works
Your psychological projection is showing again.
Every situation is a specific, individual situation to be examined separately by itself.
Facts matter. Opinions vary. Facts don't.
I don't care in any way what people's fandoms, likes, dislikes are or aren't.
In the example here, you were incorrect. You also posted incorrectly Moser's role in the other situation you mention in your post here. It was a factual based statement of what he did and didn't do. You were incorrect. You then changed the subject from results and facts to recruiting rankings and I said if recruiting rankings are what you are looking for, to look elsewhere. (We can always walk through the previous exchange if you'd like)
Anyone can have an opinion. If it's fact based, and if it's factually incorrect, it isn't all that surprising someone may point that out to you.
If someone doesn't like someone or something that isn't fact based, you are less likely to see a fact based response from someone else.
You also leap to conclusions that if I don't say something negative about someone or something, that I love it. I don't often post negative things about Chicago or Milwaukee or many other places I've visited or lived either. I have never visited or lived in a perfect place. Every place has good, bad, indifferent things about it. No exceptions. I don't scapegoat people or places. I don't care if that is popular or not. I get it. Marquette isn't the most geographically diverse place, neither is this board. I am not really into group think.
I just saw your post about tennis. I must have missed it the first time. I post for me. I enjoy a wide variety of sports, Men and Women, College and Pro, various levels not just the top ones. If other people join, great, everyone is welcome, if not, that isn't going to change what I post about or the topics. Whether that is all levels of tennis, basketball, soccer, baseball, football, Olympic Sports, etc...much of which I haven't even posted much about here yet.
You also referenced Dgies here. My baseball opinions aren't similar to his (which is fine) . We aren't the same. We don't post the same.
Many threads I don't read that don't interest me. Some I read but don't post if I have nothing to add. Some I post when I have something to add.
You have a repeated pattern. You even admitted as such in a previous post. Perhaps you don't like being called out on it, which is another thing entirely. You aren't alone 👍
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My God.
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Your psychological projection is showing again.
Every situation is a specific, individual situation to be examined separately by itself.
Facts matter. Opinions vary. Facts don't.
I don't care in any way what people's fandoms, likes, dislikes are or aren't.
In the example here, you were incorrect. You also posted incorrectly Moser's role in the other situation you mention in your post here. It was a factual based statement of what he did and didn't do. You were incorrect. You then changed the subject from results and facts to recruiting rankings and I said if recruiting rankings are what you are looking for, to look elsewhere. (We can always walk through the previous exchange if you'd like)
Anyone can have an opinion. If it's fact based, and if it's factually incorrect, it isn't all that surprising someone may point that out to you.
If someone doesn't like someone or something that isn't fact based, you are less likely to see a fact based response from someone else.
You also leap to conclusions that if I don't say something negative about someone or something, that I love it. I don't often post negative things about Chicago or Milwaukee or many other places I've visited or lived either. I have never visited or lived in a perfect place. Every place has good, bad, indifferent things about it. No exceptions. I don't scapegoat people or places. I don't care if that is popular or not. I get it. Marquette isn't the most geographically diverse place, neither is this board. I am not really into group think.
I just saw your post about tennis. I must have missed it the first time. I post for me. I enjoy a wide variety of sports, Men and Women, College and Pro, various levels not just the top ones. If other people join, great, everyone is welcome, if not, that isn't going to change what I post about or the topics. Whether that is all levels of tennis, basketball, soccer, baseball, football, Olympic Sports, etc...much of which I haven't even posted much about here yet.
You also referenced Dgies here. My baseball opinions aren't similar to his (which is fine) . We aren't the same. We don't post the same.
Many threads I don't read that don't interest me. Some I read but don't post if I have nothing to add. Some I post when I have something to add.
You have a repeated pattern. You even admitted as such in a previous post. Perhaps you don't like being called out on it, which is another thing entirely. You aren't alone 👍
The facts show that Bench was better than Molina. End of discussion.
And that's fine! Molina is great.
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Molina needs his own thread at this point.
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The facts show that Bench was better than Molina. End of discussion.
And that's fine! Molina is great.
Actually, two different types of catchers that didn’t play in the same era. So I can’t make a comparison. But it’s never been about comparing Bench and Molina.
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Molina needs his own thread at this point.
In short hoops honor, we can call it the GOAT thread. ;D
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For some reason, the Brewers game was only available on the radio with the Cubs broadcast tonight. Maybe due to announcers not traveling?
Either way, I haven't heard a Cubs radio broadcast in years, well before Santo retired. Pat Hughes is really, really gotten dull and the color guy fluctuated between light grey, dark grey and beige.
Makes one really appreciate Uek's call, and Levering and Grindle too.
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No. There was a Cincinnati Reds fan too, which is the origin of the current Molina topic. Someone mentioned the Castellanos incident. I believe even you said, "Flexing was dumb" when another pointed out to you what had exactly happened.
Then the inevitable Molina troll posts follow, as well as Molina isn't this or that. Those posts are often from tribal portions of the Cubs and Brewers fan bases, whose teams have not had as much success historically as Molina and his teams. Many of the non tribal portions of fan bases don't get so easily triggered and bothered and are often indifferent to that.
One could say with the Brewers it didn't exist prior to joining the National League, in particular, the National League Central. But, you'd be surprised how many people never got over 1982 as well.
With the Cubs, well, that goes back a hundred and twenty five years or more.
With you in particular, your tribal scapegoating goes beyond one player or team, to an entire metro area on a regular/frequent basis, and often clouds your objectivity. You are not alone however.
Whatever works. 👍
Want to translate this from Redbird into English?
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Actually, two different types of catchers that didn’t play in the same era. So I can’t make a comparison. But it’s never been about comparing Bench and Molina.
So one can’t say that Henry Aaron was better than Randall Grichuk because they’re “different types of outfielders that didn’t play in the same era”? Stop it.
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Pitch framing is baseball’s version of flopping. Molina is Brad Davison.
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Pitch framing is baseball’s version of flopping. Molina is Brad Davison.
I was watching a game today and the catcher was trying to frame pitches that were a foot outside. It has gotten really silly.
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I want Nick Madrigal off my baseball team, like right now. I can’t take it anymore. I don’t care if he hits .350 with all his hits being single, I can’t do this anymore with his horrendous defense and terrible base running.
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I was watching a game today and the catcher was trying to frame pitches that were a foot outside. It has gotten really silly.
I umpire youth baseball. 10-year-old catchers try it, and it's often quite comical.
Last year, one kid was doing it on every single pitch, even those WAY outside the zone. At one point, with a runner on third, he tried it so forcefully that as he pulled the ball back toward the plate, it went flying out of his glove and went about 20 feet away ... and the runner scored from third base.
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So one can’t say that Henry Aaron was better than Randall Grichuk because they’re “different types of outfielders that didn’t play in the same era”? Stop it.
This is disingenuous.
The best or one of the best teams or players of an era can be compared to another team or player that is considered the best or among the best of that same era.
Here your example tries to take a player who is one of the best of his era, and compare him to a player that is not considered one of the best a different era.
Whether it is baseball, basketball, any sport, team or individual, it isn't any different.
I don't believe in the term goat either. There is no such thing. All players, can't play in all eras, under all circumstances. The best or one of thr best teams or players of an era can be considered an all time great, or one of the all time greats, but that is as far as ot can go.
It's plenty good enough to say a specific player or team is the best or one of the best of his their era.
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Want to translate this from Redbird into English?
Sure. You are a tribal Reds fan, whose first comment in this recent topic was factually incorrect.
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Nm
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I was watching a game today and the catcher was trying to frame pitches that were a foot outside. It has gotten really silly.
I think it’s starting to cost them more strikes than it’s giving. I’ve seen handfuls of pitches that if the top or side of the strike zone but catcher moves it all the way to middle of the strike zone. If he’s moving the glove that much they’re not going to give him the strike.
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Nm, can’t get pic to embed from my phone
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I don't believe in the term goat either. There is no such thing. All players, can't play in all eras, under all circumstances. The best or one of thr best teams or players of an era can be considered an all time great, or one of the all time greats, but that is as far as ot can go.
It's plenty good enough to say a specific player or team is the best or one of the best of his their era.
That's your opinion.
In my opinion, Willie Mays would have been "the best or one of the best" of any era, from the day baseball was invented to last night to every day/era in between. And there are others who would be in that conversation, too.
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That's your opinion.
In my opinion, Willie Mays would have been "the best or one of the best" of any era, from the day baseball was invented to last night to every day/era in between. And there are others who would be in that conversation, too.
I mentioned in my posts that I believe any player (or team) that is the best or among the best of its individual era would qualify as an all time great and could and would likely be highly successful in any era.
What I am not willing to do is compare Willie Mays to Babe Ruth for example. They are both all time greats. But it isn't really possible to compare them head to head. It is more reasonable for me to compare Willie Mays or Babe Ruth, or whomever with other best players of their respective individual eras.
In my opinion modern players would adjust to past eras and vice versa. Past players would adjust in more modern eras.
Often times you may see someone saying those old time players can't compete in today's game. Well give those old time players the same circumstances all around and they would do fine. The same goes for the best players of more modern eras. The best ones would do just fine and be among the best in past eras too.
So you can have the best or some of the best in different eras. But that's as far as one can reasonably take it.
I am aware some people have a favorite player or team and their personality is such that they have a need to have one definitive best player or team ever, and engage in fun discussion about it. That doesn't interest me much because it isn't reasonable. Having a favorite player or team is different. I'm just fine with having a list of all time great players and teams of different eras than just one.
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(https://i.imgflip.com/54p837.jpg)
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(https://i.imgflip.com/54p837.jpg)
Nah. Facts are facts. If someone says they don't like a player, I don't care in any way.
I'll give you a different example. I have posted here in the past about Ted Simmons. He was long deserving, and long overlooked for MLB Hall of Fame. Few cared because he played a few seasons with the Brewers.
Many (not all) of the people who have posted here such as yourself, are tribal group think Brewers fans that scapegoat an opposing team or player often because that player or team has had success against that fan's player or team. It's common for the tribe to also choose perceived less supported people or groups as targets.
The people paying attention that aren't tribal group think scapegoating fans understand and get it. They are the ones not posting. I'm pretty consistent as I don't have interest in posting negatively about a team player in this manner. It isn't how I post or think. I don't need to put someone or something else down to lift myself up. I would rather discuss specific situations and examples.
The topic in this example was about a specific incident. There is video, there are interviews, etc...of the incident. But that gets lost and not relevant with the tribe. That doesn't matter.
The topic wasn't about something else specific to another team or player.
The topic then changed by the tribe into comparing great catchers of different eras.
The tribe sees what it wants to see, and I will post how I post on a variety of topics based on what interests me.
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[...]
Many (not all) of the people who have posted here such as yourself, are tribal group think Brewers fans[...]
I've literally only contributed to this Molina discussion to post a meme about the lengths you've gone to tank for him.
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Nah. Facts are facts. If someone says they don't like a player, I don't care in any way.
I'll give you a different example. I have posted here in the past about Ted Simmons. He was long deserving, and long overlooked for MLB Hall of Fame. Few cared because he played a few seasons with the Brewers.
Many (not all) of the people who have posted here such as yourself, are tribal group think Brewers fans that scapegoat an opposing team or player often because that player or team has had success against that fan's player or team. It's common for the tribe to also choose perceived less supported people or groups as targets.
The people paying attention that aren't tribal group think scapegoating fans understand and get it. They are the ones not posting. I'm pretty consistent as I don't have interest in posting negatively about a team player in this manner. It isn't how I post or think. I don't need to put someone or something else down to lift myself up. I would rather discuss specific situations and examples.
The topic in this example was about a specific incident. There is video, there are interviews, etc...of the incident. But that gets lost and not relevant with the tribe. That doesn't matter.
The topic wasn't about something else specific to another team or player.
The topic then changed by the tribe into comparing great catchers of different eras.
The tribe sees what it wants to see, and I will post how I post on a variety of topics based on what interests me.
Thank goodness the Cardinals fans are here to set the “tribal” NL Central fans straight.
I fully recognize I’m probably biased about Molina based on being a Brewers fan. I think he’s an overrated hot head. Still a very good player.
I also think it’s safe to say Cardinals fans overrate his abilities.
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Thank goodness the Cardinals fans are here to set the “tribal” NL Central fans straight.
I fully recognize I’m probably biased about Molina based on being a Brewers fan. I think he’s an overrated hot head. Still a very good player.
I also think it’s safe to say Cardinals fans overrate his abilities.
It's not sports specific. It can also be politics, religion, etc...other topics, and, it's only one portion of a fan base.
Reality is fan bases vary. Every team has good, bad, indifferent fans. No exceptions. Every team has tribal fans and other types of fans. No exceptions, even the Cardinals.
You, here, admit that you are a biased Brewers fan. But then you can't help yourself after that and illustrate the point by saying this particular player is an overrated hot head. Few things short of me saying negative things about this particular tribal targeted player is going to appease the tribe. And any unwillingness to do so incorrectly gets exaggerated to mean something else that the tribe wants it to mean.
And then you make a generalized statement unsupported by specifics. I would rather take specific situations individually. But if asked generally, is he overrated and a hot head? I would say no to both. He is a future MLB HOF player that has been one of the best catcher's the past two decades. If anything I believe his career is probably underrated by some. But that isn't popular with a tribal portion of an opposing team's fan base.
As I have said before, he is approaching the end of his career, and as is the case with many players, he isn't likely to be as good as he has been at other times in his career. But he's good enough to play often on a team that is trying ro contend for their division. This may be his last year. The topic also wasn't about his team either. He isn't on a great team in my opinion. They will be one of several teams in their division that will try to contend for the playoffs and see what happens as the season progresses. They have some strengths and weaknesses, and they have some holes to fill. They certainly have a flawed team.
If the Brewers hadn't joined the NL Central, and if the Cardinals had less success, this would be less of a discussion in general. And, considering everyone is here for Marquette related reasons, the possibility of this also increases.
People can still post however they want to post, and I will respond with however I want to respond.
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Nah. Facts are facts. If someone says they don't like a player, I don't care in any way.
I'll give you a different example. I have posted here in the past about Ted Simmons. He was long deserving, and long overlooked for MLB Hall of Fame. Few cared because he played a few seasons with the Brewers.
Many (not all) of the people who have posted here such as yourself, are tribal group think Brewers fans that scapegoat an opposing team or player often because that player or team has had success against that fan's player or team. It's common for the tribe to also choose perceived less supported people or groups as targets.
The people paying attention that aren't tribal group think scapegoating fans understand and get it. They are the ones not posting. I'm pretty consistent as I don't have interest in posting negatively about a team player in this manner. It isn't how I post or think. I don't need to put someone or something else down to lift myself up. I would rather discuss specific situations and examples.
The topic in this example was about a specific incident. There is video, there are interviews, etc...of the incident. But that gets lost and not relevant with the tribe. That doesn't matter.
The topic wasn't about something else specific to another team or player.
The topic then changed by the tribe into comparing great catchers of different eras.
The tribe sees what it wants to see, and I will post how I post on a variety of topics based on what interests me.
You’ve certainly not come off as “tribal” at all but as a dispassionate observer.
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I will just let shoot tell me what all of my opinions on all things baseball should be. He is, after all, a Cards fan. He knows better than everyone else.
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I will just let shoot tell me what all of my opinions on all things baseball should be. He is, after all, a Cards fan. He knows better than everyone else.
Thanks for illustrating the point. You, and some others, keep coming back and coming back to illustrate the point.
I believe your first post on this recent topic was, “I hate the Cardinals but that was ridiculous of Castellanos.”
You were trying to balance your tribal dislike with objectivity to the actual specific topic. But as we can see here, by this post, the balance can be challenging at times.
I of course didn’t say Cardinal Fans know better than anyone else. Actually what I said was every team has good, bad, indifferent fans, and, that every team has tribal fans as a portion of its fan base.
But I do appreciate you illustrating the point.
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Thanks for illustrating the point. You, and some others, keep coming back and coming back to illustrate the point.
I believe your first post on this recent topic was, “I hate the Cardinals but that was ridiculous of Castellanos.”
You were trying to balance your tribal dislike with objectivity to the actual specific topic. But as we can see here, by this post, the balance can be challenging at times.
I of course didn’t say Cardinal Fans know better than anyone else. Actually what I said was every team has good, bad, indifferent fans, and, that every team has tribal fans as a portion of its fan base.
But I do appreciate you illustrating the point.
Yeah. You're a level headed, unbiased, intelligent fan and most everyone here is a tribal NL Central idiot.
You never said "Cardinal Fans" know better than anyone else. But you just made "Cardinals Fans" a proper noun. So you just illustrated the point as well. So thank you.
But yes, what Castellanos did was ridiculous. We are now like 100 posts later of you defending any little "shot" at anything that has to do with the Cardinals. It's gotten old.
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Yeah. You're a level headed, unbiased, intelligent fan and most everyone here is a tribal NL Central idiot.
You never said "Cardinal Fans" know better than anyone else. But you just made "Cardinals Fans" a proper noun. So you just illustrated the point as well. So thank you.
But yes, what Castellanos did was ridiculous. We are now like 100 posts later of you defending any little "shot" at anything that has to do with the Cardinals. It's gotten old.
Again, this is one of the repeated issues with which you are struggling.
First, I didn’t say or imply anything in your first paragraph. You can attribute as many things as you want to me. If they are are not true, it isn’t all that surprising that I would point that out in response.
I repeated what you said which was Cards Fan. Those were your words, so I used your words.
Then you say we are 100 posts later, etc...but you left off the part about some people, including yourself, who keep posting about it. My response could have been one or a few posts at most. Maybe take that one up with yourself and some others.
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This has been an amazing journey along the self-awareness superhighway.
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Again, this is one of the repeated issues with which you are struggling.
First, I didn’t say or imply anything in your first paragraph. You can attribute as many things as you want to me. If they are are not true, it isn’t all that surprising that I would point that out in response.
I repeated what you said which was Cards Fan. Those were your words, so I used your words.
Then you say we are 100 posts later, etc...but you left off the part about some people, including yourself, who keep posting about it. My response could have been one or a few posts at most. Maybe take that one up with yourself and some others.
Right. It's everyone else's fault. If everyone just bowed at the feet of Cards Fans and the Cardinals, kissed their feet and admitted not only are they all the most incredible baseball players in the MLB, but also amazing people on top of it, we would not be having the Cards Fan put us all in our tribal place. The solution to keeping Cards Fans quiet is to never do anything but praise the almighty Cards.
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This has been an amazing journey along the self-awareness superhighway.
Good. Glad to help. 👍
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Nah. Facts are facts. If someone says they don't like a player, I don't care in any way.
Clearly
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I want Nick Madrigal off my baseball team, like right now. I can’t take it anymore. I don’t care if he hits .350 with all his hits being single, I can’t do this anymore with his horrendous defense and terrible base running.
I’m so disappointed. It’s been embarrassing
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Right. It's everyone else's fault. If everyone just bowed at the feet of Cards Fans and the Cardinals, kissed their feet and admitted not only are they all the most incredible baseball players in the MLB, but also amazing people on top of it, we would not be having the Cards Fan put us all in our tribal place. The solution to keeping Cards Fans quiet is to never do anything but praise the almighty Cards.
Again, you are attributing things to me which I did not say or imply.
And you somehow falsely make a giant leap to something else entirely.
As I have stated before, my preference is to discuss individual, specific, situations, as they arise, as I did in this recent example.
So it there is anything baseball specific you would like to discuss...this week’s College Baseball rankings in the six polls, and weekend matchups? MLB a specific player or team or situation, let me know. 👍
Generalized group think scapegoating isn’t my thing.
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Clearly
Like who and what you want. I don’t care in any way. When the discussion becomes more specific, I will go where the specifics take me. That’s how it works.
It’s different to discuss specific players, teams, situations from more of a specific factual/results standpoint than only from a generalized fandom or dislike standpoint.
Molina happens to have been a pretty good player. A recent poster mentioned comparing Randall Grichuk (he played for the Cardinals) and Henry Aaron. I said I wouldn’t because they didn’t play in the same era. And of course one was one of the best players of his era, and the other one wasn’t.
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I will just let shoot tell me what all of my opinions on all things baseball should be. He is, after all, a Cards fan. He knows better than everyone else.
cardinal fans have learned their lessons well. The arrogant team has long held themselves up as arbiters of the rules AND the proper way to play the game. Should we expect any less arrogance from their fans. Obviously, it is their duty to enforce fan "rules".
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What I am not willing to do is compare Willie Mays to Babe Ruth for example. They are both all time greats. But it isn't really possible to compare them head to head. It is more reasonable for me to compare Willie Mays or Babe Ruth, or whomever with other best players of their respective individual eras.
As Bill James, showed, it is very possible to compare players from different eras.
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You say you don't care but then process with multi paragraph ramblings in response to everyone else.
We get it. You think all things St Louis is the cat's ass. Enjoy your provel.
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Now on to something truly important. Tailgating returns to Miller.... um, Am Fam Field!
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cardinal fans have learned their lessons well. The arrogant team has long held themselves up as arbiters of the rules AND the proper way to play the game. Should we expect any less arrogance from their fans. Obviously, it is their duty to enforce fan "rules".
Show some effing respect. It's Cardinal Fans to you.
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So, should the cubbies be mad at Brewers' pitchers for hitting them a couple times?
Being thankful might be a better response. Walks and HBP are their primary ways of getting on base.
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So, should the cubbies be mad at Brewers' pitchers for hitting them a couple times?
Being thankful might be a better response. Walks and HBP are their primary ways of getting on base.
It clearly wasn't intentional but I can understand Contreras' frustration after getting hit in the head on Monday.
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You say you don't care but then process with multi paragraph ramblings in response to everyone else.
We get it. You think all things St Louis is the cat's ass. Enjoy your provel.
If someone or some people are going to attribute things to me falsely, I may or may not respond. If someone or some people incorrectly characterize a specific factual situation in a discussion, I may or may not respond.
If someone says they don’t like this or that as a generalized statement, I have less interest.
Again, in scapegoating, tribal group think, anything short of speaking negatively of the scapegoating tribal group target, isn’t sufficient for the tribe.
And incorrect jumps to conclusion occur.
Here you mention provel. It appears that you are referencing a type of cheese that can be found on St. Louis style pizza. (St. Louis style pizza isn’t automatically provel, but it can contain provel). And of course there are a wide variety of types of pizza found there.
I enjoy most/all types of pizza, including provel. But my preference is NYC style pizza, and then New Haven, CT style after that.
Those are personal preferences, not fact based discussions.
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If someone or some people are going to attribute things to me falsely, I may or may not respond. If someone or some people incorrectly characterize a specific factual situation in a discussion, I may or may not respond.
If someone says they don’t like this or that as a generalized statement, I have less interest.
Again, in scapegoating, tribal group think, anything short of speaking negatively of the scapegoating tribal group target, isn’t sufficient for the tribe.
And incorrect jumps to conclusion occur.
Here you mention provel. It appears that you are referencing a type of cheese that can be found on St. Louis style pizza. (St. Louis style pizza isn’t automatically provel, but it can contain provel). And of course there are a wide variety of types of pizza found there.
I enjoy most/all types of pizza, including provel. But my preference is NYC style pizza, and then New Haven, CT style after that.
Those are personal preferences, not fact based discussions.
Thanks for proving my point.
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I'm starting to get the sense that this is some kind of performance art of leaning into a stereotype so hard it collapses in on itself into a singularity, dragging everyone foolish enough to play along into the black hole that is being created.
Honestly I'm not sure I can imagine the response to the provel thing as being serious. It's absolutely got to be trolling, and the "it appears that you are referencing" writing is so contrived that I think it tips the hand.
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Thanks for proving my point.
Sure. Glad to help. Even if you are factually incorrect and misrepresenting my opinions.
Again, anything short of speaking negatively of Yadier Molina or Provel pizza isn’t going to suffice for the tribe when that’s its targets to prop themselves up by putting someone or something else down.
I recognize that’s your thing. It isn’t mine, hence I post differently here.
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I'm starting to get the sense that this is some kind of performance art of leaning into a stereotype so hard it collapses in on itself into a singularity, dragging everyone foolish enough to play along into the black hole that is being created.
Honestly I'm not sure I can imagine the response to the provel thing as being serious. It's absolutely got to be trolling, and the "it appears that you are referencing" writing is so contrived that I think it tips the hand.
No, it isn’t. I’ve posted here long enough for people to recognize that. But I do appreciate your gaslighting subject change.
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No, it isn’t. I’ve posted here long enough. I do appreciate your gaslighting subject change.
wut?
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wut?
The Cardinal Way tm doesn't involve gaslighting.
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No, it isn’t. I’ve posted here long enough for people to recognize that. But I do appreciate your gaslighting subject change.
Also I really enjoy this.
Me: "Guys, I think shoothoops' posting is so dumb as to be performative trolling"
Shoothoop: IS NOT TROLLING. I MEAN EVERY WORD. I AM DEADLY SERIOUS. LOOK UP MY EXTENSIVE POSTING HISTORY AND YOU SHALL SEE HOW EARNEST I AM IN MY EVERY BELIEF HOW DARE YOU?
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It clearly wasn't intentional but I can understand Contreras' frustration after getting hit in the head on Monday.
Yeah, my post was tongue-in-cheek.
Seriously, though, shouldn't Rizzo and Contreras expect to be hit more often when then set up so close to the plate?
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IF some one tells a person to shoothoops is that akin to shut up and dribble?
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I’d also recommend Contreras not throw his elbow into the strike zone if he takes such exception to getting hit.
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La Russa blows.
What a god awful hire by Reinsdorf.
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La Russa blows.
What was his BAC this time?
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Break up those Redlegs.
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I am not just saying this as a deprived Minnesota sports fans.
but for baseball fans in general, please baseball gods let Byron Buxton stay healthy for a season.
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Yermin the second coming of David Ortiz? Late bloomer who just rakes. He broke statcast with that 485’ bomb.
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Brewers offense appears to suck again.
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Brewers offense appears to suck again.
really bad. Almost cubbies bad.
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Brewers offense appears to suck again.
This is bad for my gamba.
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This is ~10 minutes of solid comedy.
https://www.youtube.com/v/h7dG5HCKeWA
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Brewers offense appears to suck again.
As goes Hiura, so goes the Brewers offense. They're counting on him to take the next step. To have close to enough offense, they need Yelich to be awesome and Hiura to develop into a fringy all star. The rest of the lineup is just guys.
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After 7 games the Brewers are batting .170 as a team. The only players (with over 4 ABs) hitting over .190 are Yelich, Narvaez, and Shaw. They need the other 5 starters to start hitting at least respectably so they don't waste the great starting pitching that they've been getting.
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As goes Hiura, so goes the Brewers offense. They're counting on him to take the next step. To have close to enough offense, they need Yelich to be awesome and Hiura to develop into a fringy all star. The rest of the lineup is just guys.
Brewers have destroyed Hiura. He needs to get sent down now. Vogelbach isn't much, but he is world's better than Hiura.
Hiura was a high contact, high average hitter. Brewers decided to make him a power hitter and everything fell apart. Don't know if it is too late for him or not.
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deGrom 8 IP 5 H 14 K 1 ER Loss
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deGrom 8 IP 5 H 14 K 1 ER Loss
It is phenomenal the lack of support he gets. So far 2 S, 14 IP, 0.64 ERA 0 wins one loss.
Excerpt from Joe Posnanski on The Athletic:
I don’t know what’s left to say about Jacob deGrom … but as long as the New York Mets keep doing Mets things with him on the mound, we cannot stop talking about it. Since 2018, deGrom has won two Cy Young Awards, and he finished third in the Cy Young voting last “season.” He came out Monday and threw six shutout innings in his first (delayed) start and clocked 102 mph on his best fastball. The Mets lost that game anyway.
The Mets are now 36-41 in his starts over that period of time.
In his 33 no-decisions, his ERA is 1.76 but the Mets are 11-22. This feels, to me, unprecedented. The closest example I can find is King Félix Hernández, who from 2010 to 2013 was a really good pitcher and the Mariners went 65-67. And there’s no question that during those four years he was a seriously no-support pitcher.
But … well, a couple of things. For one thing, while it’s true that King Félix had that hard-luck stretch, in other years the Mariners gave him plenty of support. In 2009, he went 19-5 and the Mariners won 25 of his 34 starts. In 2014, the Mariners scored 10-plus runs five times in his starts and went 22-12 when he was on the mound. In 2015, as he began to decline, the Mariners scored enough runs to give him an 18-9 record.
DeGrom seemed to get a roughly normal amount of support too before he emerged as a star in 2018, but ever since it has been a constant drumbeat of bad luck.
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It is phenomenal the lack of support he gets. So far 2 S, 14 IP, 0.64 ERA 0 wins one loss.
Corbin Burnes says boo-hoo.
Two starts:
12.1IP 2 hits 0 BB 0.73 ERA 0.162 WHIP 20K ---- 0 Wins
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Corbin Burnes says boo-hoo.
Two starts:
12.1IP 2 hits 0 BB 0.73 ERA 0.162 WHIP 20K ---- 0 Wins
Brewer starting pitching has been historic so far this year. But let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. Anyway, a 4-2 road trip is always welcome, especially against division rivals.
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Brewer starting pitching has been historic so far this year. But let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. Anyway, a 4-2 road trip is always welcome, especially against division rivals.
Yeah, I would bet we will not see a string of 5 consecutive starts where the starting pitchers have given up a total of 1 earned run again. By any team.
But, If Freddy Peralta can keep his WHIP under 1.20, the Brewers big 3 rank right up there with any in baseball.
Except for St. Louis - cuz they do things the right way. ::)
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Bob Gibson had the same problem for the Cardinals in 1969 and 1970.
Run support was atrocious.
Steve Carlton for the Phillies in the early 1970s was the opposite. He pitched lights out but...
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I don't think we've seen anything like DeGrom before. Since 2018, he has deserved and won two Cy Youngs, finished 3rd last year and so far this year has two starts with an 0.64 ERA. That's 503 innings of 2.06 ERA baseball with roughly a 200 ERA+. And the Mets have a losing record (36-42) when he starts a game over that time. Being that kind of inept for a single pitcher over such a long stretch is hard to do. Especially when you consider they have a better inning percentage (.491 vs .461) when he doesn't pitch.
The Cards had a winning record and won more often when Gibson started in both 69 and 70, and he was not as good as DeGrom relative to the league in those seasons.
The big difference is IP. It's not just poor run support for DeGrom, it's that the bullpen has let him down. Gibson didn't usually have that problem because he wasn't coming out if he was pitching well.
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I don't think we've seen anything like DeGrom before. Since 2018, he has deserved and won two Cy Youngs, finished 3rd last year and so far this year has two starts with an 0.64 ERA. That's 503 innings of 2.06 ERA baseball with roughly a 200 ERA+. And the Mets have a losing record (36-42) when he starts a game over that time. Being that kind of inept for a single pitcher over such a long stretch is hard to do. Especially when you consider they have a better inning percentage (.491 vs .461) when he doesn't pitch.
The Cards had a winning record and won more often when Gibson started in both 69 and 70, and he was not as good as DeGrom relative to the league in those seasons.
The big difference is IP. It's not just poor run support for DeGrom, it's that the bullpen has let him down. Gibson didn't usually have that problem because he wasn't coming out if he was pitching well.
Sounds like a managerial problem. Remove a great pitcher for a mediocre one.
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Except for St. Louis - cuz they do things the right way. ::)
[/quote]
AND their pitchers get to throw to the incomparable Yadi.
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All this time I thought they put up nets to protect fans from foul balls. Turns out it’s just to protect them from Baez throws to first.
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How about the way the umps totally screwed the pooch in last night’s Braves-Phillies game?
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All this time I thought they put up nets to protect fans from foul balls. Turns out it’s just to protect them from Baez throws to first.
He's gonna be in for a big surprise this offseason (contract-wise).
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He's gonna be in for a big surprise this offseason (contract-wise).
Meaning?
He’s coming off a GG even though he was terrible at the plate last summer. He’s a 2 time AS in 4 full seasons. Unless he falls apart the rest of the year and bats sub .250 again, he’s still gonna get $20-25MM a year from someone.
He’s not getting Lindor or Tatis money, but he’s been open about not expecting to.
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Meaning?
He’s coming off a GG even though he was terrible at the plate last summer. He’s a 2 time AS in 4 full seasons. Unless he falls apart the rest of the year and bats sub .250 again, he’s still gonna get $20-25MM a year from someone.
He’s not getting Lindor or Tatis money, but he’s been open about not expecting to.
He can't fall any more apart than he is right now. He is as lost as any hitter I have seen recently. I think he swung 11 times tonight - 9 got nothing but air. He looked awful swinging at a pitch that bounced a foot in front of the plate. But even that looked good compared to the wild pitch he swung at that bounced 4 feet in front of the plate. He's striking out in almost 50% of his ABs.
I can't see a team committing big money long term. I would expect 2-3 years at $12-$15 mil per unless he turns it around.
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He can't fall any more apart than he is right now. He is as lost as any hitter I have seen recently. I think he swung 11 times tonight - 9 got nothing but air. He looked awful swinging at a pitch that bounced a foot in front of the plate. But even that looked good compared to the wild pitch he swung at that bounced 4 feet in front of the plate. He's striking out in almost 50% of his ABs.
I can't see a team committing big money long term. I would expect 2-3 years at $12-$15 mil per unless he turns it around.
It's not the 90s. Striking out in 2021 is perfectly fine now. All about launch angles and obp
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It's not the 90s. Striking out in 2021 is perfectly fine now. All about launch angles and obp
Striking out 30% may be OK. 48% definitely is not. He has never been a big OBP guy. But this year and last year combined, it is under .245. Needless to say, that is really, really bad.
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He can't fall any more apart than he is right now. He is as lost as any hitter I have seen recently. I think he swung 11 times tonight - 9 got nothing but air. He looked awful swinging at a pitch that bounced a foot in front of the plate. But even that looked good compared to the wild pitch he swung at that bounced 4 feet in front of the plate. He's striking out in almost 50% of his ABs.
I can't see a team committing big money long term. I would expect 2-3 years at $12-$15 mil per unless he turns it around.
His OBP is roughly .290 and his slugging is .515, when he was runner up for MVP, his OBP was .325 and he slugged just over .550. He’s also at a HR per 11 ABs.
He’s started a bit slow but his advanced hitting numbers aren’t terrible. And it’s 9 bleepin games into the season for a guy who has been a beast at the plate 2 of the last 3 seasons. A bit early to pour dirt on his grave. Last year was a outlier for TONS of players. Even Mike Trout’s numbers were markedly lower than almost any other decent year for him. Lumping it together with other years is silly.
Marcus Semian just signed an $18MM a year deal. A soon to be 32 year old DiDi Gregarious is on a $14MM a year deal. Jean Segura’s annual salary is around $14.5.
Baez maybe not get 5-7 years, that I don’t entirely disagree with, but he’s not going to get less than $15MM a year unless he hits .215 and slugs under .375 again this year. Especially if he’s in Gold Glove discussion again
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How about the way the umps totally screwed the pooch in last night’s Braves-Phillies game?
Braves fan here, that play was absurd, Braves commentary crew really let off some steam in Monday's broadcast even going so far as to side with Mattingly when he got tossed, asking for the rationale for a call being overturned. I think there's a legitimate gripe that the process is a complete black box, leading to zero accountability. Who is the review ump? What did they make their decision based on? Was it "confirmed" or "call stands"? They also mentioned that apparently the KBO has "4D" replay technology light years ahead of what MLB uses... Essentially musing on whether the rationale for keeping it a black box is to not bring any daylight to the incredibly outdated technology & process.
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His OBP is roughly .290 and his slugging is .515, when he was runner up for MVP, his OBP was .325 and he slugged just over .550. He’s also at a HR per 11 ABs.
He’s started a bit slow but his advanced hitting numbers aren’t terrible. And it’s 9 bleepin games into the season for a guy who has been a beast at the plate 2 of the last 3 seasons. A bit early to pour dirt on his grave. Last year was a outlier for TONS of players. Even Mike Trout’s numbers were markedly lower than almost any other decent year for him. Lumping it together with other years is silly.
Marcus Semian just signed an $18MM a year deal. A soon to be 32 year old DiDi Gregarious is on a $14MM a year deal. Jean Segura’s annual salary is around $14.5.
Baez maybe not get 5-7 years, that I don’t entirely disagree with, but he’s not going to get less than $15MM a year unless he hits .215 and slugs under .375 again this year. Especially if he’s in Gold Glove discussion again
I get what you’re saying, but something has gone wrong. It seems to be mental more than physical. He’s a different hitter that he was. As a young guy, I thought he could become Gary Sheffield-like. Now, he is closer to Mario Mendoza.
I hope he turns it around, cuz he is one the the really fun players to watch when he is playing well.
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His OBP is roughly .290 and his slugging is .515, when he was runner up for MVP, his OBP was .325 and he slugged just over .550. He’s also at a HR per 11 ABs.
He’s started a bit slow but his advanced hitting numbers aren’t terrible. And it’s 9 bleepin games into the season for a guy who has been a beast at the plate 2 of the last 3 seasons. A bit early to pour dirt on his grave. Last year was a outlier for TONS of players. Even Mike Trout’s numbers were markedly lower than almost any other decent year for him. Lumping it together with other years is silly.
Marcus Semian just signed an $18MM a year deal. A soon to be 32 year old DiDi Gregarious is on a $14MM a year deal. Jean Segura’s annual salary is around $14.5.
Baez maybe not get 5-7 years, that I don’t entirely disagree with, but he’s not going to get less than $15MM a year unless he hits .215 and slugs under .375 again this year. Especially if he’s in Gold Glove discussion again
Don't forget his tags. Those are worth a couple million on their own.
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No idea why, but right now FanDuel has Brewers moneyline at +190 tonight. Sprint to the window if you can.
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I wonder how many teams are spending big on SSs this offseason. Seager, Story and Correa are all ahead of Baez you'd think.
He could also have some guys just behind him like Semien and a couple of defensive wizards in Iglesias and Simmons. It'll be an interesting market.
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I wonder how many teams are spending big on SSs this offseason. Seager, Story and Correa are all ahead of Baez you'd think.
He could also have some guys just behind him like Semien and a couple of defensive wizards in Iglesias and Simmons. It'll be an interesting market.
Its very interesting, and I think a lot remains to be seen how this year shakes out. There is a lot of recency bias. Baez was terrible at the plate in 2020 by his standards, but we're not even 10% through the season. Baez goes 3-4, 2-4, and 1-3 in a 3 game series and all of a sudden he's hitting .290 and rumors of his demise are forgotten.
Seager I'd agree with. He's quietly become arguably a top 3 SS. Story if he stays in Colorado, definitely. But Baez is a much better defender than both of them.
Correa I don't agree with. He got most of his shine from those first 3 years. He was pretty meh in 2018 which was his last full season. Then up and down in 2019. And again, not the fielder Baez is.
Again, this is all assuming Baez regains some semblance of himself at the plate. He's had struggles that he's worked through, its not new. He's always been confident and free swinging. But those 4 will all make the market very competitive. If not for COVID, Baez probably would have gotten a big deal in Chicago in the offseason and been locked up for the long haul.
Iglesias and Simmons are both older and light hitting, so they will be decently behind.
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After not attending a game since September, 2019, I went to the Sox/Indians game Monday night and the Cubs/Brewers game last night. Kudos to staff of both venues. It helps that the games were entertaining, but I was very impressed with the way both games were run in terms of entry/exiting, concessions, bathrooms, etc.
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I love Woody telling the entire Cubs team “back the eff up you don’t want any of this smoke.” He was right. They were happy to act tough from a distance.
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Wilson Contreras out of the lineup today too.
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Wilson Contreras out of the lineup today too.
I’m guessing that’s pretty normal for a catcher in a day game after a night game.
It was bush league to throw at Woodruff. I’d be surprised if the Brewers try and retaliate as that doesn’t seem to be Counsell’s way.
I only saw the second one from last series, but that one was close to a strike. Contreras is going to get hit a lot when standing over the plate. He led the majors with 14 last year in a short season.
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Burnes got his run support today.
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Burnes got his run support today.
Not that he needs much of it. SHEESH!
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Not that he needs much of it. SHEESH!
Threw $10 at him winning cy young before the season started
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Threw $10 at him winning cy young before the season started
His season line is just sick. 18.1IP, 4H, 1ER, 0BB, 30K
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His season line is just sick. 18.1IP, 4H, 1ER, 0BB, 30K
He's absolutely dealing.
Plus helped his cause by knocking in 2 RBIs too (again not that he needed 'em)
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He now has more RBIs than ER given up
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His season line is just sick. 18.1IP, 4H, 1ER, 0BB, 30K
His worst start of the year. He gave up 2 hits!!
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Baddoo having the hottest start in Tiger history. You know it will end, but it is always fun to watch.
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It’s fine when Javy throws his bat at the pitcher or two brewers get plunked up and in while the Cubs are getting blown out or Woody gets thrown at. But god forbid Contreras stands over the plate and gets hit.
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It’s fine when Javy throws his bat at the pitcher or two brewers get plunked up and in while the Cubs are getting blown out or Woody gets thrown at. But god forbid Contreras stands over the plate and gets hit.
Can you imagine what the Cardinals might have done had Contreras if they were on the receiving end of his hot dogging last night and not the Brewers? Gasp. I shudder to think.
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Baddoo having the hottest start in Tiger history. You know it will end, but it is always fun to watch.
Take that Chris Shelton.
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It’s fine when Javy throws his bat at the pitcher or two brewers get plunked up and in while the Cubs are getting blown out or Woody gets thrown at. But god forbid Contreras stands over the plate and gets hit.
My favorite part was the ump patting Woody on the shoulder. "You're right.... Take it easy.... I got this...."
Two out of three, again. Fly the 'L' boys. 8-)
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I’m not taking anything away from the Brewers, but that is a very bad Cubs team.
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I’m not taking anything away from the Brewers, but that is a very bad Cubs team.
Pretty much like every other Chicago team now, eh? ;D (Just givin' ya crap dish.)
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Its very interesting, and I think a lot remains to be seen how this year shakes out. There is a lot of recency bias. Baez was terrible at the plate in 2020 by his standards, but we're not even 10% through the season. Baez goes 3-4, 2-4, and 1-3 in a 3 game series and all of a sudden he's hitting .290 and rumors of his demise are forgotten.
Seager I'd agree with. He's quietly become arguably a top 3 SS. Story if he stays in Colorado, definitely. But Baez is a much better defender than both of them.
Correa I don't agree with. He got most of his shine from those first 3 years. He was pretty meh in 2018 which was his last full season. Then up and down in 2019. And again, not the fielder Baez is.
Again, this is all assuming Baez regains some semblance of himself at the plate. He's had struggles that he's worked through, its not new. He's always been confident and free swinging. But those 4 will all make the market very competitive. If not for COVID, Baez probably would have gotten a big deal in Chicago in the offseason and been locked up for the long haul.
Iglesias and Simmons are both older and light hitting, so they will be decently behind.
I don't know... Correa, from 15-19 was the better offensive player. More HR, RBI. Better OBP, OPS. He was even worth more bWAR and fWAR over that period, if WAR is your thing. I'm not sure that includes slides and tags though... But if your argument is based around the 2018 season, yeah Baez was better. It was Baez's best season and Correa's worst. Baez probably has a higher ceiling, but also a lower floor. Correa has been much more consistent.
And while Simmons and Iglesias are certainly behind, they offer options for teams looking for a SS. Options with elite skills. They are likely the best 2 defensive SS in the game. Hell, for that same period, 15-19(not chosen to cherry pick, more because that was Correa's rookie season), Simmons has a better bWAR and fWAR than Baez. Will he get the money Baez gets, no. Will he take a suitor away that is looking for a SS? Yes.
And the thing about Story is silly. Plenty of guys leave Coors and hit just fine. Will he hit as many homers? No probably not, but Baez has hit more than 30 one time. So he isn't exactly a power hitter. And Story will still hit, and be well above average. And he can steal 30ish bases in a season. Baez was great in 18 and 19. Before that he was ok. Since then he has been horrible, though I'm willing to completely dismiss 20 for a lot of guys, and this year is too early. But there has been plenty written about Baez suffering from not being able to watch film between ABs. If that doesn't come back, I think there is plenty of reason to be skeptical of him. And if I'm looking for a defense first SS, I'd prefer Simmons and Iglesias.
EDIT:
This was released this evening, it isn't the end all be all, but for the record, Seager is 1, Correa is 3, Story is 4 and Baez is mentioned in the around the edges of the top 10 commentary.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/04/2021-22-mlb-free-agent-power-rankings-2.html
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Pretty much like every other Chicago team now, eh? ;D (Just givin' ya crap dish.)
You're right though. The Sox have played pretty poorly. Their depth is embarrassing. Tim can't get back soon enough.
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You're right though. The Sox have played pretty poorly. Their depth is embarrassing. Tim can't get back soon enough.
I enjoyed following the Sox for the many years we lived down there. Would love them to have success.
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Take that Chris Shelton.
Or Brennan Boesch. Man, Shelton had a great couple of months. Baddoo is hitting more homers. First to have 4 homers in his first 8 games.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Shelton
Shelton had 57 at bats in 2004, spent 2005 in the minors, and had a ridiculous first two months of 2006. Which is why he doesn't officially count as having the hottest start as a Tiger.
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Pretty much like every other Chicago team now, eh? ;D (Just givin' ya crap dish.)
You’re not wrong. It’s not a great state of affairs. Everyday it seems there’s a new Sox problem (today it’s Crochet’s velo and spin rates being down).
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None of the Cubs who started today's game had batting averages above the Mendoza Line.
It's probably Joe Maddon's fault. :-\
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Yermin is 12-1 on PointsBet to win AL Rookie of the Year.
Just sayin...
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Will they finish ahead of Baltimore? ;D
You really motivated Boston with this one...
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Jomboy with the voice of reason regarding the cubs and brewers...
https://youtu.be/nza8se5xZOA
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The o/u for no hitters in MLB this year should be 20.
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A shoelace away from perfection.
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A shoelace away from perfection.
Man. Tough way to lose it. But just completely dominant. So happy for him. He has really struggled through some tough injuries.
And 2 no nos in a week with the only baserunner being a hbp.
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Man. Tough way to lose it. But just completely dominant. So happy for him. He has really struggled through some tough injuries.
And 2 no nos in a week with the only baserunner being a hbp.
Yeah, that’s pretty insane if you think about it. Two no hitters missed being perfect by HBP’s, crazy.
Rodon is a really good dude too. Doesn’t promote it, but he does a lot of good stuff for people that no one sees or hears of (including for my son a few years back)
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Of course I chose to go to the Sox game on Tuesday and not Wednesday.
Just my luck.
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I'm sure it's just normal catcher rest, but I do fin it funny that Cleveland benched Roberto Perez today.
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I'm sure it's just normal catcher rest, but I do fin it funny that Cleveland benched Roberto Perez today.
Yeah, catchers rarely, like almost never now, play a day game after a night game. I don't think there would have been any sort of retaliation either. He didn't do anything wrong, he just got hit.
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5 Astros in COVID protocols. The rest of the team is ticked they had to play last night.
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5 Astros in COVID protocols. The rest of the team is ticked they had to play last night.
surprised that they weren't tipped off to the rona going round the clubhouse, hey?
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surprised that they weren't tipped off to the rona going round the clubhouse, hey?
The team medical staff was too busy banging on the garbage bins to do testing.
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5 Astros in COVID protocols. The rest of the team is ticked they had to play last night.
Somebody call them a “wah” mbulence.
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Contreras is a crybaby moron.
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Contreras is a crybaby moron.
I will withhold judgement until the non-tribal view is voiced.
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I will withhold judgement until the non-tribal view is voiced.
Pretty cool of him to take Ryan Tepera’s money.
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Pretty cool of him to take Ryan Tepera’s money.
Haha, the "it just got away from me" defense is much harder to believe at this point...
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Cubs-Braves is in the 4th inning and Contreras has already been hit by two pitches. Sucks that the Braves will have to deal with a guy looking for revenge. ::)
Maybe don't stand on the plate if you don't like being hit by pitches. A Cubs player has led the MLB in hit by pitches 5 of the last 7 seasons.
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Contreras is a crappy hitter and has figured out his best chance to get on base is by strapping on the plastic armor and leaning out over the plate. If that's his game, fine, but don't be a whiny bitch about it when you get hit.
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Cubs-Braves is in the 4th inning and Contreras has already been hit by two pitches. Sucks that the Braves will have to deal with a guy looking for revenge. ::)
Maybe don't stand on the plate if you don't like being hit by pitches. A Cubs player has led the MLB in hit by pitches 5 of the last 7 seasons.
Baez got hit twice, Contreras only got hit once.
Contreras is a crappy hitter and has figured out his best chance to get on base is by strapping on the plastic armor and leaning out over the plate. If that's his game, fine, but don't be a whiny bitch about it when you get hit.
Contreras has gotten a bit annoying with the whole thing and he was wrong to open his mouth about it in a press conference, but stop with the nonsense exaggeration. He's a career .270 hitter with decent power numbers. The majority of his WAR, and what made him an all star, is his offensive production at the plate. Dont act like he's some bum who has to sneak on base cause he can't hit just cause you don't like him. He's just struggling and frustrated like the entire Cubs offense is with their t-ball team production at this point in the year.
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A Cubs player has led the MLB in hit by pitches 5 of the last 7 seasons.
That’s not right, either. In just the NL:
2020 Contreras (CHC)
2019 Rizzo (CHC)
2018 Nimmo (NYM)
2017 Rizzo (CHC)
2016 Dietrich (MIA)
2015 Rizzo (CHC)
2014 Jay (STL)
*The last time prior to 2015 a Cub led the NL in HBP was when Bill Madlock tied Greg Luzinski and Michael Jack Schmidt in 1976.
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That’s not right, either. In just the NL:
2020 Contreras (CHC)
2019 Rizzo (CHC)
2018 Nimmo (NYM)
2017 Rizzo (CHC)
2016 Dietrich (MIA)
2015 Rizzo (CHC)
2014 Jay (STL)
2021 Contreras (CHC)
2020 Contreras (CHC)
2019 Rizzo (CHC)
2018 Nimmo (NYM)
2017 Rizzo (CHC)
2016 Dietrich (MIA)
2015 Rizzo (CHC)
Granted, it is just the NL, but that is 5 of the last 7 (counting this year so far).
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2021 Contreras (CHC)
2020 Contreras (CHC)
2019 Rizzo (CHC)
2018 Nimmo (NYM)
2017 Rizzo (CHC)
2016 Dietrich (MIA)
2015 Rizzo (CHC)
Granted, it is just the NL, but that is 5 of the last 7 (counting this year so far).
Yes, sorry. I just took a quick glance and did not realize that was including 2021. So 4 out of 6. And that would be the entire MLB, as the NL leader has led also led the entire MLB in all but one of those years, and it was the year Dietrich led the NL.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/HBP_leagues.shtml
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2021 Contreras (CHC)
2020 Contreras (CHC)
2019 Rizzo (CHC)
2018 Nimmo (NYM)
2017 Rizzo (CHC)
2016 Dietrich (MIA)
2015 Rizzo (CHC)
Granted, it is just the NL, but that is 5 of the last 7 (counting this year so far).
Rizzo crowds the plate unapologetically. It's a choice, and he reaps the benefits of it. Don't think he has made much noise about it over the years. Should teach Willson to shut up and take his base.
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Padres/Dodgers is becoming a fantastic rivalry.
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https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/04/latest-on-cubs-javier-baez.html
Baez apparently turned down an extension somewhere between 160-180 mil. No report on how many years. Either way, seems like a great move not made for the cubs.
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Woof, not a great outing by Giolito today.
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https://theathletic.com/2521835/2021/04/19/the-alchemy-of-jordan-lawlar-heres-what-makes-up-the-probable-top-3-mlb-draft-pick/
Nice piece on Jordan Lawlar from Dallas Jesuit, and his decision whether to go pro out of high school, or go to college first. He’s a projected top 3 pick in the MLB draft.
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Woof, not a great outing by Giolito today.
Couldn't have been much worse, actually.
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Through 6 innings tonight:
Season totals:
Corbin Burns 40 Ks, 0 BB
Javier Baez 31 Ks, 1 BB
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Wow. Brewers' Corbin Burnes starts the season with 40 strikeouts and 0 walks in 4 outings. Yikes!!
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Wow. Brewers' Corbin Burnes starts the season with 40 strikeouts and 0 walks in 4 outings. Yikes!!
That's unreal.
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That's unreal.
Especially from where he was 2 years ago. Unbelievable turnaround.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, even though it is early, a 0.37 ERA for a starter is somewhat better than average, right?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, even though it is early, a 0.37 ERA for a starter is somewhat better than average, right?
It's okay. His 0.329 WHIP is decent too.
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Wow. Brewers' Corbin Burnes starts the season with 40 strikeouts and 0 walks in 4 outings. Yikes!!
Wish those rumors about him going to the White Sox had been true.
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Especially from where he was 2 years ago. Unbelievable turnaround.
That's the exact timeline to look at, because that was when he learned his cutter. He used the cutter last year for the first time, and so far this year he's using it 51% (!!) of the time. From 2018-2020, fastball usage is down 43%, slider down 31%, curveball up a not-problematic 3.5%. Cutters and changeups don't carry the same injury profile as breaking balls, so while his numbers will surely regress as tape gets out on the cutter, there is nothing in the pitch mix so far that suggests increased injury risk or that he can't stay a top flight pitcher.
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It's okay. His 0.329 WHIP is decent too.
The Jake Cycle?
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The Jake Cycle?
I hope so.
Or better yet, start roids at 28 like Arrieta did and go 80 Ks and 0 BBs.
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The Lavine/Falvey/Baldelli combo could be among the worst in the history of sports.
Two bozos who don't know how to properly construct a roster and a Manger that literally doesnt know the game of baseball.
Hire the homeless drunk guy off the streets if youre just gonna read from a script for every decision.
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Wow. Brewers' Corbin Burnes starts the season with 40 strikeouts and 0 walks in 4 outings. Yikes!!
While its a long season and while Woodruff has had to scratch and claw for every bit of his sub 2 ERA thus far, it's incredible that the Brewers have two legitimate CY candidates that may end up cannibalizing each other.
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40 K's and zero walks? That's not bad.
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The Lavine/Falvey/Baldelli combo could be among the worst in the history of sports.
Two bozos who don't know how to properly construct a roster and a Manger that literally doesnt know the game of baseball.
Hire the homeless drunk guy off the streets if youre just gonna read from a script for every decision.
Not gonna comment on the front office, but terrible decision with Donaldson aside, Baldelli won 100 games his first season and then won the division again in his second. They’ve started bad but I’ve never thought he was a bad manager
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Roughly 89% of the MLB regular season is remaining.
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Not gonna comment on the front office, but terrible decision with Donaldson aside, Baldelli won 100 games his first season and then won the division again in his second. They’ve started bad but I’ve never thought he was a bad manager
Hes abysmal.
An actual statue coulda won 100 games with the 2019 MLB home run champs. We played 57 games against the Royals, Tigers and Sox. And the Indians were like half good.
Baseball is a different sport than the other 3. The manager isnt responsible for Nelson Cruz hitting like a 39 year old god. He doesn't draw up plays to make Max Kepler successful. We had a great hitting coach in 2019.......he gone.
Hes reasponsible for the the in game moves, hes been terrible every year. Can't manage a bullpen, not sure hes ever won a challenge, Kevin Cash school of yanking pitchers etc...
Baldelli is however responsible for making Jorge Polanco his #5 hitter. Or having Jake Cave anywhere near a lineup. Or moving Polanco to second base so that it forces Arraez into a utility role playing positions like LF and 3B where he 1. Cant defend and 2. HIs lack of power lowers his value.
FO gets the blame too because they make awful roster decisions aka Kiriloff in the minors. Signing scrub journeymen. Keeping Cave and Dobnak on the team. But Baldelli doubles down and plays these guys.
This years Twins team isnt as deep as 2019 adn 2020 squads and its greatly exposing his ability to make a lineup. In 2019 its impossible to screw up when your toughest debate is "Should Marwin Gonzalez bat 8th or 9th"
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Why is Josh Lindblom on a MLB roster. Eat the contract and cut him.
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Why is Josh Lindblom on a MLB roster. Eat the contract and cut him.
When you lose, lose big.
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Especially from where he was 2 years ago. Unbelievable turnaround.
Wait a second, I've seen this story before! Wades where you at with the roids accusations.
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Why is Josh Lindblom on a MLB roster. Eat the contract and cut him.
He'll be in Appleton by the morning.
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On behalf of Cubs fans everywhere, I’d like to thank Lindblom and the Brewers for giving Baez some confidence back. Would appreciate if they threw him the rest of the weekend to get Baez and the rest of the lineup back in a groove
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On behalf of Cubs fans everywhere, I’d like to thank Lindblom and the Brewers for giving Baez some confidence back. Would appreciate if they threw him the rest of the weekend to get Baez and the rest of the lineup back in a groove
Javier Baez lacks certain qualities; I’m not sure “confidence” is one of them.
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On behalf of Cubs fans everywhere, I’d like to thank Lindblom and the Brewers for giving Baez some confidence back. Would appreciate if they threw him the rest of the weekend to get Baez and the rest of the lineup back in a groove
Did the brewers not get the scouting report of loading up the bases and having him swing at 3 58 foot curves?
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He'll be in Appleton by the morning.
Man, I hope so. I’d rather see them stretch out Drew Rasmussen to replace Anderson. He has been a starter in the past.
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I don’t know how to make this fair, so I’ll throw this out there for NL awards:
MVP deGrom
CY Burnes
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I don’t know how to make this fair, so I’ll throw this out there for NL awards:
MVP deGrom
CY Burnes
Has any pitcher ever won MVP and not the Cy Young? Remembering Clemens, Verlander, and Kershaw all took down both
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Cy Young.
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Yermin is gonna win the MVP in both leagues.
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Wait a second, I've seen this story before! Wades where you at with the roids accusations.
See above.
But good comp. Early 20s minor leaguer with dirty stuff figures it out. Compared to 28 year old journeyman becoming the best pitcher in baseball for 2 years out of nowhere.
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So, who is this Tatis guy? Looks like he could be a player.
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See above.
But good comp. Early 20s minor leaguer with dirty stuff figures it out. Compared to 28 year old journeyman becoming the best pitcher in baseball for 2 years out of nowhere.
I forgot the massive difference between a 28 year old and a 26 year old.
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Giolito cut his middle finger in a glass water bottle which he mistook for a twist-off.
I’m not a connoisseur, but that sounds like one fancy-ass bottle of aqua.
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I forgot the massive difference between a 28 year old and a 26 year old.
Well Burnes was 25 last year when he had a legit Cy Young case before his injury. And wasn’t up and down from the minors for years before magically figuring it out. But yes, in a 10-15 year career, 3 years is a pretty massive difference.
I’m sure MLB players just recklessly throw around accusations of PED use without any clue whether someone used them or not though.
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So Rossy decided he didn’t want any of that momentum the Brewers allegedly gave Baez. Sits him the next game and now 0-2 and a really quality defensive play from the most exciting player in baseball history.
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I see a bunch of people mad Garcia didn’t run on that double play. Am I missing something? If he runs, don’t they just catch it and double him off at first? The only reason it dropped was because it was on purpose right?
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So, who is this Tatis guy? Looks like he could be a player.
Or is he stealing signs?
(Yes, he's a great player, but this and the Twitter spat between he and Bauer is fun).
https://twitter.com/fuzzyfromyt/status/1386212252848586752
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I see a bunch of people mad Garcia didn’t run on that double play. Am I missing something? If he runs, don’t they just catch it and double him off at first? The only reason it dropped was because it was on purpose right?
What I don't get is that not being called an infield fly? Perhaps because it was 10 feet into the outfield grass? Honestly, if that's the case it should be up to the reasonable interpretation of the ump. Garcia had no chance to do anything.
Seriously, could baseball become any LESS interesting with only strikeouts/homers and no base runners.
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What I don't get is that not being called an infield fly? Perhaps because it was 10 feet into the outfield grass? Honestly, if that's the case it should be up to the reasonable interpretation of the ump. Garcia had no chance to do anything.
Seriously, could baseball become any LESS interesting with only strikeouts/homers and no base runners.
Infield fly needs runners on first and second.
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Seriously? That's the rule? I'm in my 7th decade of following baseball and I didn't know that?
Anyway, you Cubs fans have football season to look forward to...... oh, wait. ;D
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I don’t know what it is about this year, but people are jumping to conclusions early in the season more than ever. Literally 1/8th of the way done. Good lord. Lost track of how many players are washed, teams are done, and seasons over already.
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I don’t know what it is about this year, but people are jumping to conclusions early in the season more than ever. Literally 1/8th of the way done. Good lord. Lost track of how many players are washed, teams are done, and seasons over already.
Of course. That is what fans do. Football is a sprint - baseball is a marathon.
But let's be serious. The only Chicago team with a chance to win is the White Sox. Bulls, Hawks, Bears, Cubs..., blah
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3 game series, no Kimbrel. Thanks Rossy.
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I don’t know what it is about this year, but people are jumping to conclusions early in the season more than ever. Literally 1/8th of the way done. Good lord. Lost track of how many players are washed, teams are done, and seasons over already.
Folks are just havin' fun Wags. Personally, few things give me greater satisfaction than the Crew beating the Cubs. That said, I honestly hope my 'good guys' can start to hit the ball a little. With the exception of those 2 knocks in the 9th and Manny's PH HR yesterday, the bats were again damn quiet in Wrigley. Perhaps when Yeli gets back. Some guys really need a day or two off. I really feel for Shaw. The guy has taken to getting plunked to get RBIs.
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Folks are just havin' fun Wags. Personally, few things give me greater satisfaction than the Crew beating the Cubs.
Except beating them in 3 series already and we are not even through April.
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3 game series, no Kimbrel. Thanks Rossy.
When would he have used him
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When would he have used him
The first and ninth innings on Sunday, and the fifth and seventh innings the day before. Obviously.
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When would he have used him
Down one in the top of the ninth is a perfectly normal spot to use your closer.
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Down one in the top of the ninth is a perfectly normal spot to use your closer.
Unless Kimbrel then goes on to hit a HR in the bottom of the 9th, the Cubs still lose.
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Unless Kimbrel then goes on to hit a HR in the bottom of the 9th, the Cubs still lose.
He asked a question. I answered.
Plenty of managers will use their closer there, especially if they haven't thrown in awhile. Ross chose not to. That's fine. Glad he didn't today either. The five insurance runs were nice.
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He asked a question. I answered.
Plenty of managers will use their closer there, especially if they haven't thrown in awhile. Ross chose not to. That's fine. Glad he didn't today either. The five insurance runs were nice.
Especially with Contreras, Rizzo, Bryant and Baez up in the ninth.
However, with no off day until Thursday, May 6, it was understandable why they didn't make that choice.
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Infield fly needs runners on first and second.
Or first, second and third.
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Unless Kimbrel then goes on to hit a HR in the bottom of the 9th, the Cubs still lose.
Uh, the guy who did pitch gave up 5. Suppose kimbrel could have too, but much less likely.
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Especially with Contreras, Rizzo, Bryant and Baez up in the ninth.
However, with no off day until Thursday, May 6, it was understandable why they didn't make that choice.
Agreed.
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Honestly winning a series against a division rival ought to be the main take away, but one thing that feels like it will matter is Devin Williams dealing in his frame. Getting him back to last year's form changes the complexion of that bullpen and drastically improves the team.
Besides, baseball is more fun when the Airbender is breaking ankles and buckling knees.
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https://twitter.com/DanHayesMLB/status/1386830201007583233
Guy is literally worse than a monkey you find in the zoo
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Well, looks like deGrom is back in the running for Cy Young, unless Yermin wins it of course.
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What's the deal with Kyle Hendricks? Every other start, guy looks like doo-doo.
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What's the deal with Kyle Hendricks? Every other start, guy looks like doo-doo.
His spin rate is down, which means his ground ball rate is down.
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Burnes supposedly has covid.
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Burnes supposedly has covid.
Oh, awesome. What a day. What's next? Giannis get's hit by a Milwaukee City Bus?
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Burnes supposedly has covid.
He deserves it if he refused the vaccine.
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He deserves it if he refused the vaccine.
That's an a-hole comment.
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That's an a-hole comment.
No kidding.
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He deserves it if he refused the vaccine.
character revealed.
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That's an a-hole comment.
Back at ya’.
Get the vaccine!! It’s been available to players for a month. If he doesn’t want to be a responsible citizen, why should I care?
Not only that, but he put any other fools on the team at risk.
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It’s also possible he got the vaccine and still got Covid. They got J&J right? I believe that’s a little less effective, so it may be he just got unlucky.
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It’s also possible he got the vaccine and still got Covid. They got J&J right? I believe that’s a little less effective, so it may be he just got unlucky.
If that’s the case, I will apologize- but I doubt it was.
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Oh, awesome. What a day. What's next? Giannis get's hit by a Milwaukee City Bus?
People are taking the potential positive test to the runner-up for the National League Pitcher of the Month for April very, very seriously.
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People are taking the potential positive test to the runner-up for the National League Pitcher of the Month for April very, very seriously.
Why wouldn't they? This could affect an up and coming star for months.
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Oh, awesome. What a day. What's next? Giannis get's hit by a Milwaukee City Bus?
Uh....
https://twitter.com/positivebucks/status/1387923451957153795?s=21
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Why wouldn't they? This could affect an up and coming star for months.
That’s an a-hole comment.
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Uh....
https://twitter.com/positivebucks/status/1387923451957153795?s=21
Luckily he seems okay
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That’s an a-hole comment.
?
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Why wouldn't they? This could affect an up and coming star for months.
It was supposed to be here.
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Uh....
https://twitter.com/positivebucks/status/1387923451957153795?s=21
At least we have a lot of beer to drink here.
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That’s an a-hole comment.
Dude, smoke some weed and chill.
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Dude, smoke some weed and chill.
I was just repeating what he said to me.
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People are taking the potential positive test to the runner-up for the National League Pitcher of the Month for April very, very seriously.
In addition to the Rodgers news. Try and keep up.
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In addition to the Rodgers news. Try and keep up.
Admittedly, I don’t follow football at all. I had no idea things were this serious. Thoughts and prayers.
I’ll post a sign-up sheet at work so we can take shifts bringing the affected families dinner; they obviously have enough to worry about.
Do you suggest I buy my card from the “Sorry your overrated pitcher was too dumb to get the shot” or the “Sorry your diva QB started a rumor because no one has paid attention to him since he pretended to host Jeopardy,” aisle?
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Admittedly, I don’t follow football at all. I had no idea things were this serious. Thoughts and prayers.
I’ll post a sign-up sheet at work so we can take shifts bringing the affected families dinner; they obviously have enough to worry about.
Do you suggest I buy my card from the “Sorry your overrated pitcher was too dumb to get the shot” or the “Sorry your diva QB started a rumor because no one has paid attention to him since he pretended to host Jeopardy,” aisle?
You can go to the store, pick out whichever card you'd like, be sure to sign it
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/cc34bd7c155da8fe068556650c390456/tenor.gif?itemid=5436184)
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Both of those jabs made me laugh. Refreshing, well plays folks
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You can go to the store, pick out whichever card you'd like, be sure to sign it
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/cc34bd7c155da8fe068556650c390456/tenor.gif?itemid=5436184)
Well done.
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Calendar turns over to May and Giants with best record in NL. Brewers are 2nd best.
I think we can all agree it won’t be like that when we hit June?
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It’s very impressive what Lauer and Peralta have done against LAD the last two games.
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It’s very impressive what Lauer and Peralta have done against LAD the last two games.
Lauer especially. Guy has been a total mess since they acquired him.
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Lauer especially. Guy has been a total mess since they acquired him.
This.
Peralta is very unhittable most of the time. If he is not walking guys, he is a top starter.
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Lauer especially. Guy has been a total mess since they acquired him.
Lauer weirdly is lights out against the Dodgers.
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https://sports.yahoo.com/season-slump-baseball-keeps-swinging-160144369.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/season-slump-baseball-keeps-swinging-160144369.html)
“Major League batters are hitting .232 overall thru April, down from .252 two years ago and under the record low of .237 set in the infamous season of 1968 that resulted in a lower pitchers mound.”
K’s per game are on pace to set a record for the 13th consecutive season, (9.06 thru April; it was 8.81 in ‘19 and only 4.77 in ‘78)
The Detroit Tigers, as a team, are batting .199
There have been two official no-hitters, and one game where Bumgarner didn’t allow a hit.
Just 16.6% of pitches are put into play.
Even Home Runs are down.
It’s only May 1.
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https://sports.yahoo.com/season-slump-baseball-keeps-swinging-160144369.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/season-slump-baseball-keeps-swinging-160144369.html)
“Major League batters are hitting .232 overall thru April, down from .252 two years ago and under the record low of .237 set in the infamous season of 1968 that resulted in a lower pitchers mound.”
K’s per game are on pace to set a record for the 13th consecutive season, (9.06 thru April; it was 8.81 in ‘19 and only 4.77 in ‘78)
The Detroit Tigers, as a team, are batting .199
There have been two official no-hitters, and one game where Bumgarner didn’t allow a hit.
Just 16.6% of pitches are put into play.
Even Home Runs are down.
It’s only May 1.
Exhibit #1 is Keaton Hiura. He was a guy who hit at every level he played - including MLB. The Brewers decided a .300 plus hitter did not provide value. So they changed his swing plane to hit more HRs. Now he is a well-below average hitter who hits a few extra HRs.
Teams league-wide are doing this with their young hitters. But it is extremely hard to hit high heat with an uppercut swing. Pitchers know that and that is why we see all the pitches at the top of the zone. It makes for an ugly game.
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Michael Kopech is really good.
That's the post.
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He’s not been the most consistent but it’s nice to see Shaw having some success this year.
The Brewers at 17-10 has been pretty amazing with all their injuries. The depth has certainly helped some, but the starting pitching has been on another level. I’m not used to seeing a Brewers team focused on pitching and defense.
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Exhibit #1 is Keaton Hiura. He was a guy who hit at every level he played - including MLB. The Brewers decided a .300 plus hitter did not provide value. So they changed his swing plane to hit more HRs. Now he is a well-below average hitter who hits a few extra HRs.
Teams league-wide are doing this with their young hitters. But it is extremely hard to hit high heat with an uppercut swing. Pitchers know that and that is why we see all the pitches at the top of the zone. It makes for an ugly game.
It’s brutal to watch. If I were an organization, I’d go the complete other way with hitters just to be an outlier. It’s not a matter of me wishing for the old days, but some team has to realize the imbalance in the game and put together a lineup of guys that can work counts and wear out bullpens. And it’s time to start making striking out a badge of dishonor. I know the modern game considers it just another out but if a guy k’s, I’d rather it’s after battling a pitcher instead of taking 3 worthless hacks
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He’s not been the most consistent but it’s nice to see Shaw having some success this year.
The Brewers at 17-10 has been pretty amazing with all their injuries. The depth has certainly helped some, but the starting pitching has been on another level. I’m not used to seeing a Brewers team focused on pitching and defense.
Generally, he hasn’t been very good, but he’s had quite a few clutch hits helping to win games. I’ll take that from him
I also agree with Rico’s comments, but it’s gonna be hard to do. 6_8 years ago, teams had one or two guys who threw 95. Now half the guys throw 96-100.
Making matters worse are the high speed Rapsodo cameras where a pitcher can make near instant adjustments with spin rates. As much as we hate watching guys swing and miss, some of the pitchers are unhittable. Even a good hitter can’t touch guys like deGrom and Burnes unless they make a mistake.
The only solution is see is a smaller strike zone. Raise it an inch or two at the knees and lower it 3 inches at the top.
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Generally, he hasn’t been very good, but he’s had quite a few clutch hits helping to win games. I’ll take that from him
I also agree with Rico’s comments, but it’s gonna be hard to do. 6_8 years ago, teams had one or two guys who threw 95. Now half the guys throw 96-100.
Making matters worse are the high speed Rapsodo cameras where a pitcher can make near instant adjustments with spin rates. As much as we hate watching guys swing and miss, some of the pitchers are unhittable. Even a good hitter can’t touch guys like deGrom and Burnes unless they make a mistake.
The only solution is see is a smaller strike zone. Raise it an inch or two at the knees and lower it 3 inches at the top.
You could move the mound back too. The last thing you want to do is incentivize more walks.
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You could move the mound back too. The last thing you want to do is incentivize more walks.
That’s an interesting idea. They’re trying it in one of the minor leagues so we’ll see what happens. I read somewhere that it will give hitters .03 seconds extra.
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Thanks, Corbin.
Teams should tell players they must be vaccinated to be on the field.
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Its very interesting, and I think a lot remains to be seen how this year shakes out. There is a lot of recency bias. Baez was terrible at the plate in 2020 by his standards, but we're not even 10% through the season. Baez goes 3-4, 2-4, and 1-3 in a 3 game series and all of a sudden he's hitting .290 and rumors of his demise are forgotten.
Baez starting to get into a groove. Took a bit longer than expected, but in the last 2 weeks, over 8 games, he’s hitting .333, 3 HRs, 10 RBIs, slugging around .625, his average for the season is back around .250.
He’s never gonna be Ichiro, and will always strike out a bunch, but as many have said, that’s very much in line with trends in MLB. He wasn’t gonna be a mess hitting around the Mendoza line forever. Hitting near a red hot Bryant isn’t hurting.
Pitching still continues to be a disaster.
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You could move the mound back too. The last thing you want to do is incentivize more walks.
The one other thing to do is a hard ban on pitchers using sticky substances. Spin rate drives everything now. Hard to get the higher spin rate without sticky.
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Was definitely a smart idea to keep Kiriloff in the minors for no reason and have Jake Cave playing daily as the Twins lost game after game.
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You could move the mound back too. The last thing you want to do is incentivize more walks.
I too, often find myself thinking "how could the game do more to injure pitchers???"
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Glad to see that Stearns reads Scoop. ?-(
I have suggested twice in the last week that Hiura needs to be sent down. He took my advice today.
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This White Sox season is going well. I’m going to be their next outfielder at this rate.
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This White Sox season is going well. I’m going to be their next outfielder at this rate.
Could be worse, could be the Twins who just actively choose not to field the best outfield possible
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I too, often find myself thinking "how could the game do more to injure pitchers???"
Lol. Offered without proof of course...
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Lol. Offered without proof of course...
You and Buck may both be right. I, too, believe it will cause more injuries. But, no we don't have proof. We may get some of that proof (one way or the other) in the minor league experiment.
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Lol. Offered without proof of course...
Do you seriously not think its more likely? Guys traun their entire lives to throw multiple pitches from one distance to perfect it. Then some moron arbitrarily moves that distance back 10 feet? You don't think that'll make a difference?
You also said you didn't want to incentivize walks correct? What do you think moving the origin point of the pitch back 10 feet will do for command and control? Seems like it would make it harder to throw strikes to me. Especially for breaking and offspeed pitches.
Seems like a terrible idea in every way. But hey, maybe everything is a strike, or there can be 2 catchers? Or hitters can use a flat bat? Or maybe no breaking pitches allowed? Or just go full softball and start with 1-1 and all foul balls are strikes. Maybe play on ice and skates?
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Who said anything about ten feet? Stop making things up.
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Do you seriously not think its more likely? Guys traun their entire lives to throw multiple pitches from one distance to perfect it. Then some moron arbitrarily moves that distance back 10 feet? You don't think that'll make a difference?
You also said you didn't want to incentivize walks correct? What do you think moving the origin point of the pitch back 10 feet will do for command and control? Seems like it would make it harder to throw strikes to me. Especially for breaking and offspeed pitches.
Seems like a terrible idea in every way. But hey, maybe everything is a strike, or there can be 2 catchers? Or hitters can use a flat bat? Or maybe no breaking pitches allowed? Or just go full softball and start with 1-1 and all foul balls are strikes. Maybe play on ice and skates?
You're not helping me out here, Buck. We are talking 12-18 inches.
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Yelich back on the IL due to his back injury. Not good.
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Who said anything about ten feet? Stop making things up.
hy·per·bo·le
/hīˈpərbəlē/
Learn to pronounce
noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
"he vowed revenge with oaths and hyperboles"
Seriously? For a guy that really puts on airs about being the smartest guy in the room, you really miss a lot. In a post filled with flagrant exaggerations, you grab one and decide to take it literally? Guess what, I also don't think anyone is suggesting playing on ice. Or using multiple catchers.
The point is, moving the mound back, by a foot, foot and a half or 2 feet, is likely to put more strain on pitchers. Moving the mound back is also likely to result in more balls being thrown outside of the strike zone. Thereby, increasing walks, and pitch counts, relief pitchers and game times. None of those really seem to be good.
EDIT: Just in case, I was also not being completely serious when I suggested Yermin Mercedes could win the NL Cy Young.
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You're not helping me out here, Buck. We are talking 12-18 inches.
TWSS
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hy·per·bo·le
/hīˈpərbəlē/
Learn to pronounce
noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
"he vowed revenge with oaths and hyperboles"
Seriously? For a guy that really puts on airs about being the smartest guy in the room, you really miss a lot. In a post filled with flagrant exaggerations, you grab one and decide to take it literally? Guess what, I also don't think anyone is suggesting playing on ice. Or using multiple catchers.
The point is, moving the mound back, by a foot, foot and a half or 2 feet, is likely to put more strain on pitchers. Moving the mound back is also likely to result in more balls being thrown outside of the strike zone. Thereby, increasing walks, and pitch counts, relief pitchers and game times. None of those really seem to be good.
EDIT: Just in case, I was also not being completely serious when I suggested Yermin Mercedes could win the NL Cy Young.
Oh now you’re claiming hyperbole.
Anyway if you can’t understand the difference between one and ten feet I don’t know what to say.
And it’s really not hard to be one of the smarter ones in the room if you’re in there too.
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Thanks for a 3rd grade level insult with no real reply. And the whole statement was hyperbole. Not my fault you're too dense to notice.
And in terms of trying to accurately throw a curve or slider, the point was 1 foot-18 inches - 2 feet is a huge difference.
And again, do you think it will put more strain on pitchers? Do you think it will increase or decrease the command/control of pitchers?
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Thanks for a 3rd grade level insult with no real reply. And the whole statement was hyperbole. Not my fault you're too dense to notice.
And in terms of trying to accurately throw a curve or slider, the point was 1 foot-18 inches - 2 feet is a huge difference.
And again, do you think it will put more strain on pitchers? Do you think it will increase or decrease the command/control of pitchers?
If your whole point was that 1, 2 or 10 feet was the same, there was no need for hyperbole. That is simply a bullsh** excuse for you getting called out on your goalpost shifting.
They are trying out moving the mound back in the minors. Let's see how that goes before we claim that there are going to be a bunch of injuries. I mean, were there a bunch when they lowered the mound a few decades ago? Or did pitchers simply adjust?
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If your whole point was that 1, 2 or 10 feet was the same, there was no need for hyperbole. That is simply a bullsh** excuse for you getting called out on your goalpost shifting.
They are trying out moving the mound back in the minors. Let's see how that goes before we claim that there are going to be a bunch of injuries. I mean, were there a bunch when they lowered the mound a few decades ago? Or did pitchers simply adjust?
Why would there be more injuries if they lower the mound? When a pitcher is coming back from injury the process involves throwing from flat ground at distances that increase before moving to the mound.
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Why would there be more injuries if they lower the mound? When a pitcher is coming back from injury the process involves throwing from flat ground at distances that increase before moving to the mound.
I don't know. But according to buck, any change in the sacred dimensions of how a pitcher has thrown for years has a potential to mess with his arm. It seems to me that the angle of how a pitch would be one of those dimensions.
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Hyperbole, meet hyperbole.
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Hyperbole, meet hyperbole.
Very good. Only I am intentionally doing so. Buck only claimed to do after he got called out on his bullsh**.
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Very good. Only I am intentionally doing so. Buck only claimed to do after he got called out on his bullsh**.
I didn't shift goalposts at all bro. I said I thought moving the mound back would lead to more injuries for pitchers. I gave an exaggerated dimension in a post, which truly doesn't matter for the point. I was trying to make a point. Maybe I should have said if they move the mound to 2nd base? Would you have gotten that? To CF? The warning track? Maybe I'll go bigger next time in order to not confuse you. You missed it, and you like to feel so superior, so you lashed out. I'm sorry your wittle feewings are hurt. I get how you think people could post about things which they are completely ignorant, I mean, you do it all freaking day long. I post basically about baseball. The first websites I check every morning are baseball site. If you want to believe that I think moving the mound back was your idea or something, fine. If you want to think I had no idea it was being discussed, fine. Believe what ever you want. I can't change your mind. But I'm a person that is pretty well informed about what is going on in the baseball realm.
But again, my post was really nothing but exaggerations. Sorry I didn't "claim" that or whatever earlier. Next time I'll put asterisk all around it and say ***HYERBOLE DISCLOSED FOR FLUFFYS SAKE****. That way you'll be sure to get it.
And I'll ask again, do you think it is likely that moving the mound back is likely to put more strain on pitchers? And do you think that moving the mound back will improve pitchers ability to throw strikes?
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I didn't shift goalposts at all bro. I said I thought moving the mound back would lead to more injuries for pitchers. I gave an exaggerated dimension in a post, which truly doesn't matter for the point. I was trying to make a point. Maybe I should have said if they move the mound to 2nd base? Would you have gotten that? To CF? The warning track? Maybe I'll go bigger next time in order to not confuse you. You missed it, and you like to feel so superior, so you lashed out. I'm sorry your wittle feewings are hurt. I get how you think people could post about things which they are completely ignorant, I mean, you do it all freaking day long. I post basically about baseball. The first websites I check every morning are baseball site. If you want to believe that I think moving the mound back was your idea or something, fine. If you want to think I had no idea it was being discussed, fine. Believe what ever you want. I can't change your mind. But I'm a person that is pretty well informed about what is going on in the baseball realm.
But again, my post was really nothing but exaggerations. Sorry I didn't "claim" that or whatever earlier. Next time I'll put asterisk all around it and say ***HYERBOLE DISCLOSED FOR FLUFFYS SAKE****. That way you'll be sure to get it.
And I'll ask again, do you think it is likely that moving the mound back is likely to put more strain on pitchers? And do you think that moving the mound back will improve pitchers ability to throw strikes?
::)
To answer your questions...I don't know. I have never claimed to know. You are the ones making the claim that more pitchers would be injured - as I said without proof.
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Ideas to restore the balance and improve hitting.
Lower the seams on the ball.
Go to electronic ball/strike calls and shrink the strike zone, eliminating the high strike and the ball an inch off the plate.
Change the strike zone. Currently, the top of the strike zone is technically the armpits. Make it the belly button.
Put limits on the shift. Allow only two defenders on either side of second base.
None of these will add strain to the pitcher's arms. Those are already fragile to begin with.
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Isn't it kind of early to be changing the rules of the game to encourage more offense? We are just a couple years removed from changes to the ball creating an outcry that there was too much offense. If there were any changes, they should be to facilitate enforcement of the existing rules, imo.
MLB should end the unspoken rules on foreign substances, and just issue a standard stickum, with harsh penalties for using anything else. Standardizing the strike zone with electronic balls/strikes would be another huge change in standardizing enforcement. But I have trouble getting behind rule changes like changing the strikezone, extending the distance to the mound, or limiting the shift.
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Isn't it kind of early to be changing the rules of the game to encourage more offense? We are just a couple years removed from changes to the ball creating an outcry that there was too much offense. If there were any changes, they should be to facilitate enforcement of the existing rules, imo.
MLB should end the unspoken rules on foreign substances, and just issue a standard stickum, with harsh penalties for using anything else. Standardizing the strike zone with electronic balls/strikes would be another huge change in standardizing enforcement. But I have trouble getting behind rule changes like changing the strikezone, extending the distance to the mound, or limiting the shift.
I'm cool with that. I also like tower's suggestions, especially the electronic ball/strike calls.
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::)
To answer your questions...I don't know. I have never claimed to know. You are the ones making the claim that more pitchers would be injured - as I said without proof.
LOL. Ok. Well then. Try using your brain and your own experiences. Is it more or less strain to throw from farther away? I know in my experience, closer throws are easier. Also in my experience, it is easier to be accurate from nearer to the target than from farther away.
It is pretty well established (sorry if you are ignorant to this...*) that velocity, and torque on pitchers elbows are the leading cause of many injuries, including Tommy John. The harder you throw it, the more likely you are to injure yourself. Throwing from farther away, naturally requires more force, putting more strain on the elbows of pitchers. I don't think it is a ridiculous jump to suggest that moving the mound back would lead to more injuries. You seem to think so though, so cool.
EDIT:
* didn't mean this as a jab in any way. It has been well established for a while but it isn't necessarily common knowledge. I did make an assumption that you would have been aware of this earlier...
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Is LaRussa drinking again?
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There’s zero defense for that top of the 10th by LaRussa. Does he not know the rules? His decisions that inning were so bad.
And WTF was he doing or not doing on the double switch in the 9th?!
Awful.
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LaRussa post game “I didn’t know the rule”.
Perfect.
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There’s zero defense for that top of the 10th by LaRussa. Does he not know the rules? His decisions that inning were so bad.
And WTF was he doing or not doing on the double switch in the 9th?!
Awful.
Brutal. The Sox don't execute in extras at all. I don't think they've gotten their free runner in once. Everything about that was bad. What a waste of a great start by Keuchel.
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There’s zero defense for that top of the 10th by LaRussa. Does he not know the rules? His decisions that inning were so bad.
And WTF was he doing or not doing on the double switch in the 9th?!
Awful.
Bottom of 10th was just as bad. You always gotta walk the 1st hitter to set up force.
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LaRussa post game “I didn’t know the rule”.
Perfect.
Really?
Oy.
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Bottom of 10th was just as bad. You always gotta walk the 1st hitter to set up force.
Even after that, how do you not walk Winker??? Dude has been their best hitter and is absolutely killing RHP this season. Wouldn't want them loaded for.... Kyle Farmer! Even Suarez, who would have been next has been brutally bad this year. Everything about that inning was poorly managed.
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Even after that, how do you not walk Winker??? Dude has been their best hitter and is absolutely killing RHP this season. Wouldn't want them loaded for.... Kyle Farmer! Even Suarez, who would have been next has been brutally bad this year. Everything about that inning was poorly managed.
Agreed.
But how about having Billy Hamilton - who may be the single worst hitter in MLB - up in another instance where the game is on the line.
The margin for error got smaller with Robert out for the year. How long can they accept this incompetence in the dugout?
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I didn’t know the exclusion pitchers get from beginning at second after making the final out, either.
However, I am not a Hall of Fame baseball person, nor am I the current manager of a MLB team.
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I too, often find myself thinking "how could the game do more to injure pitchers???"
Jeez Louise. Teams are carrying 14 pitchers nowadays! 50 years ago it was 8 for more innings (only slightly more innings because no runner on second in extras and doubleheaders were 9 innings each). As long as pitchers don't "pitch" and just max effort, injuries are going to continue to happen.
I want the pitching mound moved back. Do something. I love this sport and the lack of balls in play is really making it tough to watch a nine inning game.
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LaRussa post game “I didn’t know the rule”.
Perfect.
those damn unwritten rules
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those damn unwritten rules
Oh, he knows the unwritten ones. Sometimes he’s the only one who knows them. The written ones are the ones that give him trouble.
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A shoelace away from perfection.
John Means of the Orioles threw the 3rd no-hitter of the season today. He missed a Perfect Game after a runner reached on a wild pitch strikeout in the 9th.
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Even after that, how do you not walk Winker??? Dude has been their best hitter and is absolutely killing RHP this season. Wouldn't want them loaded for.... Kyle Farmer! Even Suarez, who would have been next has been brutally bad this year. Everything about that inning was poorly managed.
Redlegs fan here-
1. The walk sets up a force at every base
2. Winker is a lefty and Farmer a righty
3. Winker can really hit-Farmer has no business in the majors.
Strange decision by Tony.
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John Means of the Orioles threw the 3rd no-hitter of the season today. He missed a Perfect Game after a runner reached on a wild pitch strikeout in the 9th.
Ouch. That's worse than a hbp.
Just saw, althe dropped 3rd, was in the 3rd.
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Ouch. That's worse than a hbp.
Just saw, althe dropped 3rd, was in the 3rd.
You’re right; it was the 3rd inning, (the MLB App gave me a “Perfect Game” alert into the 9th, when it switched to a “No Hitter.” Apps are some straight up bullcrap sometimes.)
According to Elias, it is the first time a Perfect Game was ever lost on a missed strike three.
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Joc Peterson just thought he hit a game-winning homer for the Cubs, flipped his bat and everything. But it was only a game-tying sac fly.
I don't mind bat-flips. Celebrations never bother me ... unless you spike the football before you reach the end zone.
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Joc Peterson just thought he hit a game-winning homer for the Cubs, flipped his bat and everything. But it was only a game-tying sac fly.
I don't mind bat-flips. Celebrations never bother me ... unless you spike the football before you reach the end zone.
That was middle of the track. RF not even in the ivy. What a clown.
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Baseball is a weird flukey game, but the Cubs sweeping the Dodgers with a massively struggling Hendricks, essentially a bullpen game, and then Alzolay beating Kershaw, Bauer, and Buehler? That’s just an absurdly unexpected and unexplainable outcome
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That was middle of the track. RF not even in the ivy. What a clown.
If you were batting .143, you'd celebrate a fly ball to the warning track, too.
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Baseball is a weird flukey game, but the Cubs sweeping the Dodgers with a massively struggling Hendricks, essentially a bullpen game, and then Alzolay beating Kershaw, Bauer, and Buehler? That’s just an absurdly unexpected and unexplainable outcome
Hawk Harrelson, a modern-day Mark Twain, used to say, “It’s not who you play, it’s when you play them.” MIL and CHC can be glad they played LAD in the last week. The Dodgers are too good to lose 6 of 7 games like that again.
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LaRussa post game “I didn’t know the rule”.
Perfect.
Apparently none of his coaches did either. That's just as bad that he would hire coaches like that.
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Hawk Harrelson, a modern-day Mark Twain, used to say, “It’s not who you play, it’s when you play them.” MIL and CHC can be glad they played LAD in the last week. The Dodgers are too good to lose 6 of 7 games like that again.
Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately?) for the Brewers, they play them again this weekend.
Edit: Never mind. They play the Marlins. Mixed up the two recent opponents.
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Pujols will be released today, according to Jeff Passan.
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Pujols will be released today, according to Jeff Passan.
Ohtani becoming Superman finally shakes them out of the Pujols suck. Trout, Ohtani, and Rendon may be the best Big 3 in baseball and they still suck.
Do people think Pujols is gonna go somewhere and make a difference? Gimme a break. Radio was frothing at the mouth about him becoming a Brewer. Have they watched him lately?
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Ohtani becoming Superman finally shakes them out of the Pujols suck. Trout, Ohtani, and Rendon may be the best Big 3 in baseball and they still suck.
Do people think Pujols is gonna go somewhere and make a difference? Gimme a break. Radio was frothing at the mouth about him becoming a Brewer. Have they watched him lately?
Well, we haven’t exactly been sending a Murderer’s Row out there at 1B. I could see some reason for fan optimism.
Does he even play 1B anymore? Probably one of my least favorite players, so I’m not itching to sign him. But if he could help so be it.
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Pujols will be released today, according to Jeff Passan.
Nice little career for AP.
11 straight .900 plus OPS in Stl before the plantar fasciitis eventually became too much.
Only MLB player with 3,000+ hits, 600+ home runs, and multiple WS Titles.
14th all time hits.
5th all time doubles.
5th all time Home Runs.
3rd all time RBI’s.
15th all time runs scored.
Never K’d 100 times in a season.
3 MVP’s. (top 5, 7 other times)
2 Gold Gloves.
6 Silver Slugger Awards
2 All Time MVP Award Shares
.323/.431./599 in 77 post season games. 19 HR’s, 53 RBI’s, 55 runs scored.
His first 11 seasons were as good as I’ve seen.
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Nice little career for AP.
11 straight .900 plus OPS in Stl before the plantar fasciitis eventually became too much.
Only MLB player with 3,000+ hits, 600+ home runs, and multiple WS Titles.
14th all time hits.
5th all time doubles.
5th all time Home Runs.
3rd all time RBI’s.
15th all time runs scored.
Never K’d 100 times in a season.
3 MVP’s. (top 5, 7 other times)
2 Gold Gloves.
6 Silver Slugger Awards
2 All Time MVP Award Shares
.323/.431./599 in 77 post season games. 19 HR’s, 53 RBI’s, 55 runs scored.
His first 11 seasons were as good as I’ve seen.
Congrats.
Top 10? 5? in steroids taken.
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He's soooooooo going to be a member of the Sox.
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He's soooooooo going to be a member of the Sox.
He’ll be batting 5th and playing LF (TLR will claim, “Vaughn can learn from Albert”) by Mother’s Day.
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His first 11 seasons were as good as I’ve seen.
He was on course to be a top 5 all-timer.
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Nice little career for AP.
11 straight .900 plus OPS in Stl before the plantar fasciitis eventually became too much.
Only MLB player with 3,000+ hits, 600+ home runs, and multiple WS Titles.
14th all time hits.
5th all time doubles.
5th all time Home Runs.
3rd all time RBI’s.
15th all time runs scored.
Never K’d 100 times in a season.
3 MVP’s. (top 5, 7 other times)
2 Gold Gloves.
6 Silver Slugger Awards
2 All Time MVP Award Shares
.323/.431./599 in 77 post season games. 19 HR’s, 53 RBI’s, 55 runs scored.
His first 11 seasons were as good as I’ve seen.
Yep, with St. Louis: 1.037 OPS, with an average season being 40 HR and 121 RBIs and played 143-161 games every season. Those are practically Ted Williams numbers.
Still not bad his first 6 years in L.A. when healthy: .777 OPS, with 162-game averages of 32 HR and 110 RBIs. Didn't "deserve" the contract he had, but he wasn't bad or anything.
Big falloff after that, which is what almost always happens with these 1,000-year contracts.
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Nice little career for AP.
11 straight .900 plus OPS in Stl before the plantar fasciitis eventually became too much.
Only MLB player with 3,000+ hits, 600+ home runs, and multiple WS Titles.
14th all time hits.
5th all time doubles.
5th all time Home Runs.
3rd all time RBI’s.
15th all time runs scored.
Never K’d 100 times in a season.
3 MVP’s. (top 5, 7 other times)
2 Gold Gloves.
6 Silver Slugger Awards
2 All Time MVP Award Shares
.323/.431./599 in 77 post season games. 19 HR’s, 53 RBI’s, 55 runs scored.
His first 11 seasons were as good as I’ve seen.
Is plantar fasciitis a brand of roids?
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I don’t know if he can stay healthy, but it’s awesome to see Carlos Rodon having this kind of season so far. Even outside of the no hitter, he’s been fantastic this year.
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I don’t know if he can stay healthy, but it’s awesome to see Carlos Rodon having this kind of season so far. Even outside of the no hitter, he’s been fantastic this year.
Does anybody have a rotation better than Giolito, Lynn, Keuchal, Rodin and Cease (with Kopech waiting in the wings)?
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The o/u for no hitters in MLB this year should be 20.
We’re up to 4. The Indians have been no-hit twice in 23 days.
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We’re up to 4. The Indians have been no-hit twice in 23 days.
Give it 45 minutes, it’s going to be 5.
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This Twins team just flat out sucks.
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This Twins team just flat out sucks.
A lot of people expected a regression by the twins, but they are kinda overdoing it.
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As we all expected, the outfield trio of Andrew Vaughn, Leury Garcia and Danny Mendick have the White Sox in first place.
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As we all expected, the outfield trio of Andrew Vaughn, Leury Garcia and Danny Mendick have the White Sox in first place.
Well, it's as good as Billy McKinney. Tyrone Taylor, and Avi Garcia.
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I wonder if the Tigers are going to look at what the Angels did to Pujols and think about doing the same to Miggy.
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So minor league baseball is back. Which is cool. And while I knew it was going to be restructured, I didn't realize that they were also going the rename the leagues into the most generic things possible.
So the former "Midwest League" is now "High-A Central." The former "International League" is now "Triple-A East."
That's kinda lame.
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The new names do seem a little too generic, but at least they don’t lie. The former International League hasn’t had a team outside the US in over a decade.
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Corbin coming back Thursday.
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Big falloff after that, which is what almost always happens with these 1,000-year contracts.
Shoulda stayed a Cardinal.
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Anyone else as bored as I am with all the strikeouts?
Getting harder and harder to watch games.
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Shoulda stayed a Cardinal.
Coulda stayed juicing
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Anyone else as bored as I am with all the strikeouts?
Getting harder and harder to watch games.
Me.
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Anyone else as bored as I am with all the strikeouts?
Getting harder and harder to watch games.
Not when the Sox are pitching...
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Anyone else as bored as I am with all the strikeouts?
Getting harder and harder to watch games.
Makes me feel a little better about how bad the Brewers offense is. At this point, it’s almost dumb luck when they score more than 2 runs.
Although when your MVP has a back like me and the other key part of your offense must not be carrying a bat to the plate with those strikeout numbers, it makes things tough.
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The league-wide AVERAGE strikeout rate is right around 25%.
That's Nolan Ryan / Sandy Koufax territory.
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He deserves it if he refused the vaccine.
I still don’t agree with the sentiment that he deserved it. However, you are correct that he didn’t receive the vaccine.
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This Twins team just flat out sucks.
Yes. Yes, they do.
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I still don’t agree with the sentiment that he deserved it. However, you are correct that he didn’t receive the vaccine.
Im not sure I follow Corbin’s logic:
“Burnes, who indicated that he elected not to get inoculated against COVID-19 “for personal reasons,” said that he felt fortunate that the team got through contact tracing with no further positives. During his absence, the team surpassed 85 percent of its Tier 1 personnel vaccinated.
“It’s great now that the team’s at 85 percent and we can relax a lot of the protocols,” Burnes said. “We’re trying to get back to normal just like everybody else is.”
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Im not sure I follow Corbin’s logic:
“Burnes, who indicated that he elected not to get inoculated against COVID-19 “for personal reasons,” said that he felt fortunate that the team got through contact tracing with no further positives. During his absence, the team surpassed 85 percent of its Tier 1 personnel vaccinated.
“It’s great now that the team’s at 85 percent and we can relax a lot of the protocols,” Burnes said. “We’re trying to get back to normal just like everybody else is.”
I think he is saying, "I revel in my dumbassery, but its nice that enough other people did the responsible thing so that I can enjoy life as normal."
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I think he's saying, "My immune system is working as it's supposed to. I was exposed to the virus, tested positive but didn't get sick and now I have natural immunity so we can all enjoy life as normal."
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I think he's saying, "My immune system is working as it's supposed to. I was exposed to the virus, tested positive but didn't get sick and now I have natural immunity so we can all enjoy life as normal."
He should have been vaccinated. He STILL should get vaccinated. It's idiotic positions like his that delays us "all enjoying life as normal."
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This doesn't sound like its very good for baseball. Even less national games.
https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2021/05/espn-mlb-deal-fewer-games-expanded-wild-card/
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Another day, another wasted ace performance by the brewers offense.
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Another day, another wasted ace performance by the brewers offense.
KKKKKKKKKKK. Doesn't get any more boring than that.
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KKKKKKKKKKK. Doesn't get any more boring than that.
The Brewers are boring - Ks aside. Even without 2 of their most exciting young players, the White Sox are kinda fun to watch. Give ‘em a try.
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The Brewers are boring - Ks aside. Even without 2 of their most exciting young players, the White Sox are kinda fun to watch. Give ‘em a try.
When it comes to the AL, I already root for the Sox. Wish the Brewers had a stud like Abreu.
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When it comes to the AL, I already root for the Sox. Wish the Brewers had a stud like Abreu.
The Sox have had an absolutely amazing run at 1B. Frank Thomas to Paul Konerko to Jose Abreu. 30 good years there. Hahah.
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KKKKKKKKKKK. Doesn't get any more boring than that.
This thread (https://twitter.com/DKThomp/status/1391832811775139849) kinda sparked me to reflect a bit. The tldr is essentially, the sport became reactive to data analytics that incentivized pursuing skills, players, and roster composition that emphasized the "three-true-outcome" game. There is an objective value to min-maxing spin rate, launch angle, and accepting Ks over ground balls, but it's not particularly compelling viewing. Essentially, three-true-outcome-uber-alles baseball is boring.
I... can't really disagree? As much fun as it is to watch Burnes-Williams-Hader throw smoke, it really is kinda boring? And, of course, the Brewers offensive assembly is atrocious, so it's not like they're doing any favors to the experience. I'm not sure I have anything to say here other than maybe when all of the organic bits of a game or a piece of art are stripped away in favor of a mercenary pursuit of min-maxed perfection, something about the final product suffers.
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I think a compounding factor in the frustrations of Brewer fans, could be that the Brewers strike out more than any other team in the NL. They also have the lowest BA in the NL. That's an ugly combination.
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Is the Brewers’ hitting coach the same guy as it was last year? Yes part of the problem is you don’t have very good hitters on the roster, but what’s happened to Hiura alone is enough to make me think the hitting coach isn’t very good.
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Is the Brewers’ hitting coach the same guy as it was last year? Yes part of the problem is you don’t have very good hitters on the roster, but what’s happened to Hiura alone is enough to make me think the hitting coach isn’t very good.
Yea, it’s Andy Haines. If I remember right, he was on his way to being fired from the Cubs due to their struggles to score runs at the end of the year.
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This thread (https://twitter.com/DKThomp/status/1391832811775139849) kinda sparked me to reflect a bit. The tldr is essentially, the sport became reactive to data analytics that incentivized pursuing skills, players, and roster composition that emphasized the "three-true-outcome" game. There is an objective value to min-maxing spin rate, launch angle, and accepting Ks over ground balls, but it's not particularly compelling viewing. Essentially, three-true-outcome-uber-alles baseball is boring.
I... can't really disagree? As much fun as it is to watch Burnes-Williams-Hader throw smoke, it really is kinda boring? And, of course, the Brewers offensive assembly is atrocious, so it's not like they're doing any favors to the experience. I'm not sure I have anything to say here other than maybe when all of the organic bits of a game or a piece of art are stripped away in favor of a mercenary pursuit of min-maxed perfection, something about the final product suffers.
Good stuff Ficke.
We have been lied to be MLB that 3 outcome baseball produces more runs. The real issue is a lack of hitter development. Every coach wants to change the swing plane of hitters. The problem is that the high strike is basically unhittable with a higher swing plane. The Brewers have destroyed Keston Hiura. He was a guy who was expected to compete for batting crowns in his career. They coached him up to be a sub .200 hitter with just a bit more HR pop. Unlike Baex who chases bad pitches, I haven't seen a hitter swing and miss on balls in the zone since Rickie Weeks. The Cubs decided an MVP-caliber player was doing enough so the worked with him to change his swing plane - resulting in a low average / low power version of himself. this winter he worked with his dad to return to his old swing and, viola! ' he is a power hitting MVP candidate again. And don't even get me started on how this has contributed to seemingly endless games.
Of the 6 teams that have hit the most home runs this year, only 1 team is in the top 6 of runs scored. Of the top 6 teams at taking walks, only 2 are in the top 6 for runs scored. Three outcomes indeed.
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From an entertainment point of view, could the over-regionalization of the game be a problem as well? I watch the Brewers, and if they stink or are boring, I am really not watching other games. I don't think I'm the only one.
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From an entertainment point of view, could the over-regionalization of the game be a problem as well? I watch the Brewers, and if they stink or are boring, I am really not watching other games. I don't think I'm the only one.
Yes, I think that is a big part of it. I do watch other games, but it's mainly because I'm in several Fantasy Leagues.
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This thread (https://twitter.com/DKThomp/status/1391832811775139849) kinda sparked me to reflect a bit. The tldr is essentially, the sport became reactive to data analytics that incentivized pursuing skills, players, and roster composition that emphasized the "three-true-outcome" game. There is an objective value to min-maxing spin rate, launch angle, and accepting Ks over ground balls, but it's not particularly compelling viewing. Essentially, three-true-outcome-uber-alles baseball is boring.
I... can't really disagree? As much fun as it is to watch Burnes-Williams-Hader throw smoke, it really is kinda boring? And, of course, the Brewers offensive assembly is atrocious, so it's not like they're doing any favors to the experience. I'm not sure I have anything to say here other than maybe when all of the organic bits of a game or a piece of art are stripped away in favor of a mercenary pursuit of min-maxed perfection, something about the final product suffers.
The only team to win the World Series in the past 5 seasons with a high three true outcome, is the Cubs in 2016. A few were at/near the bottom including the very bottom, Kansas City. Red Sox, A few were in the bottom half, Red Sox, Nationals.
Three true outcomes have perceived path to higher salaries for some, and lower attendance the past decade as well.
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Is the Brewers’ hitting coach the same guy as it was last year? Yes part of the problem is you don’t have very good hitters on the roster, but what’s happened to Hiura alone is enough to make me think the hitting coach isn’t very good.
The Brewers center field videographer got exposed.
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Is the Brewers’ hitting coach the same guy as it was last year? Yes part of the problem is you don’t have very good hitters on the roster, but what’s happened to Hiura alone is enough to make me think the hitting coach isn’t very good.
MIL had the third-worst OPS in the NL last season, and has the second-worst so far in '21. The offense has been struggling since Yelich fouled the ball of his kneecap.
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Maybe the worst offense I have ever seen.
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Maybe the worst offense I have ever seen.
It’s depressing being down 4 runs in the second and feel that’s insurmountable.
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In 4 games, Sox have outscored the Twins 42-17, average win is by 6 plus runs per game. This is with 0 AB’s from Eloy/Robert, and Abreu missing one of the four games.
Hard to fathom how far the Twins have fallen.
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In 4 games, Sox have outscored the Twins 42-17, average win is by 6 plus runs per game. This is with 0 AB’s from Eloy/Robert, and Abreu missing one of the four games.
Hard to fathom how far the Twins have fallen.
And a dinger from Yermin. 🤣
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And a dinger from Yermin. 🤣
I do want to thank Baldelli for giving baseball that Astudillo vs. Yermin matchup.
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La Russa is the worst. Way to back up your player there you spineless coward.
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La Russa is the worst. Way to back up your player there you spineless coward.
“(Mercedes) made a mistake. There will be a consequence he has to endure here within our family."
TLR also called Yermin “clueless.”
Thank God we can have 76 year-old Hall of Fame baseball-type people making sure MLB isn’t entertaining.
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The Cardinal Way^TM has officially come to the south side baby!!!
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La Russa is the worst. Way to back up your player there you spineless coward.
A good way to lose the locker room is to go after one of your guys. But only LaRussa (and Molina) know all of the unwritten rules.
Baldelli makes a sham of a move and then whines about the result The Twins are showing their utter lack of class. They are right where they belong in the standings. .
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“(Mercedes) made a mistake. There will be a consequence he has to endure here within our family."
TLR also called Yermin “clueless.”
Thank God we can have 76 year-old Hall of Fame baseball-type people making sure MLB isn’t entertaining.
Just terrible. Clearly the wrong hire for this team at this time.
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La Russa is the worst. Way to back up your player there you spineless coward.
Yeah that was bad. I know hes a old timer but jeez.
Baldelli not liking it was par the course for that sad sack of a manager.
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Thank God we can have 76 year-old Hall of Fame baseball-type people making sure MLB isn’t entertaining.
Watching some guy swing at a 3-0 pitch from a non-pitcher in a 15-4 laughter is my idea of entertainment.
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Watching some guy swing at a 3-0 pitch from a non-pitcher in a 15-4 laughter is my idea of entertainment.
I thought it was.
https://www.mlb.com/news/yermin-mercedes-homers-off-slow-pitch?partnerId=zh-20210518-156906-MLB&qid=1026&bt_ee=%2BJWr651bBIuN6kuZhE5NJUCXNbWGQ%2B9nKyHfzcg3QC%2FNuLOhbrOKUYeKHpewsqR9&bt_ts=1621337779220 (https://www.mlb.com/news/yermin-mercedes-homers-off-slow-pitch?partnerId=zh-20210518-156906-MLB&qid=1026&bt_ee=%2BJWr651bBIuN6kuZhE5NJUCXNbWGQ%2B9nKyHfzcg3QC%2FNuLOhbrOKUYeKHpewsqR9&bt_ts=1621337779220)
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I’m starting to think giving Hendriks a four year $50 mil + deal with no trade clauses wasn’t a great idea.
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My only fantasy baseball bright light is Yermin Mercedes.
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Watching some guy swing at a 3-0 pitch from a non-pitcher in a 15-4 laughter is my idea of entertainment.
Watching some guy take a 3-0 pitch from a non-pitcher in a 15-4 laugher is your idea of entertainment?
Given the binary choice, I’ll take the swing and the home run. LaRussa (what new?) is a tool.
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The o/u for no hitters in MLB this year should be 20.
The fifth no-hitter of the season came on May 18. Household-name Spencer Turnbull of the Detroit Tigers blanked the Mariners.
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Turnbull lost 17 games two years ago and survived COVID this spring.
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Once you put a position player in the game to pitch, you lose the right to complain about any results, in my opinion.
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The fifth no-hitter of the season came on May 18. Household-name Spencer Turnbull of the Detroit Tigers blanked the Mariners.
No-hitters are cool, though.
They emphasize one of the fun things about sports, unpredictability.
Here you have a guy who was 3-17 in the last pre-COVID season, and 9-25 in his career, and yet he steps up and throws a no-hitter.
I remember during my Minneapolis days, Scott Erickson -- who in 1993 allowed the most hits in the majors, threw a no-hitter early the following season. Yep, baseball's most hittable pitcher threw a no-hitter.
I love that kind of stuff. One never knows when one goes to the ballpark if that's the day they'll see history being made.
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No-hitters are cool, though.
They emphasize one of the fun things about sports, unpredictability.
Here you have a guy who was 3-17 in the last pre-COVID season, and 9-25 in his career, and yet he steps up and throws a no-hitter.
I remember during my Minneapolis days, Scott Erickson -- who in 1993 allowed the most hits in the majors, threw a no-hitter early the following season. Yep, baseball's most hittable pitcher threw a no-hitter.
I love that kind of stuff. One never knows when one goes to the ballpark if that's the day they'll see history being made.
Philip Humber perfect game for the White Sox in 2012. At the time, only the 21st ever MLB perfect game.
Career stats:
16-23; 5.31 ERA; 97 games (51 starts; 1 complete game); WHIP 1.42
The game is amazing.
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Good (if a touch long) breakdown of the rise of the K and more intelligently gets at some of the things I was bringing up a few pages back.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31454952/how-k-became-most-destructive-letter-major-league-baseball
Fun statistical pullquotes:
"In April, there were 1,092 more strikeouts than hits, the largest such gap in any month in major league history. The season strikeout record surely will be broken this year for the 15th consecutive time. In 2016, the percentage of plate appearances that ended in a strikeout was .211. It has risen, year by year -- .216, .223, .230, .234. Right now, it stands at .243. Those are, of course, the six highest rates in major league history. In 1968, the famed Year of the Pitcher, the K rate was only .158."
"Corbin Burnes of the Brewers set a record for 58 strikeouts between walks this past Thursday; that record was broken four days later by Gerrit Cole, who on Monday made it 61 strikeouts between walks."
"The Brewers have a guy [Burnes] throwing a cutter at 97," [David] Ross said. "He makes Mariano's [Rivera, the greatest closer ever, with the greatest cutter ever] look like a child's." (wow, high dang praise, also, the bracketed text is in the original except for where I added "David' to make it clear it was the Cubs manager being quoted.
"[Tony] Gwynn never struck out more than 40 times in a season. The Rangers' Joey Gallo and the Reds' Eugenio Suarez struck out 40 times in April."
"Gwynn had one three-strikeout game in his career. So did Joe DiMaggio and Stan Musial. Bill Buckner and Mike Scioscia never struck out three times in a game. But through Monday, an individual player has struck out four (or five) times in a game 56 times this season. (In 1955, there were 12 such times. No season before 1956 had more than 17)."
It's long, but I found it worth a read.
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One never knows when one goes to the ballpark if that's the day they'll see history being made.
I’ve never seen a no-hitter live, and I’ve been going to games my whole life.
That said, in 2021 a no-hitter is being tossed every 9.8 days. At some point, it has to no longer be “history making,” and get chalked up to simply a combination of awful offensive baseball and luck.
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Good (if a touch long) breakdown of the rise of the K and more intelligently gets at some of the things I was bringing up a few pages back.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31454952/how-k-became-most-destructive-letter-major-league-baseball
Fun statistical pullquotes:
"In April, there were 1,092 more strikeouts than hits, the largest such gap in any month in major league history. The season strikeout record surely will be broken this year for the 15th consecutive time. In 2016, the percentage of plate appearances that ended in a strikeout was .211. It has risen, year by year -- .216, .223, .230, .234. Right now, it stands at .243. Those are, of course, the six highest rates in major league history. In 1968, the famed Year of the Pitcher, the K rate was only .158."
"Corbin Burnes of the Brewers set a record for 58 strikeouts between walks this past Thursday; that record was broken four days later by Gerrit Cole, who on Monday made it 61 strikeouts between walks."
"The Brewers have a guy [Burnes] throwing a cutter at 97," [David] Ross said. "He makes Mariano's [Rivera, the greatest closer ever, with the greatest cutter ever] look like a child's." (wow, high dang praise, also, the bracketed text is in the original except for where I added "David' to make it clear it was the Cubs manager being quoted.
"[Tony] Gwynn never struck out more than 40 times in a season. The Rangers' Joey Gallo and the Reds' Eugenio Suarez struck out 40 times in April."
"Gwynn had one three-strikeout game in his career. So did Joe DiMaggio and Stan Musial. Bill Buckner and Mike Scioscia never struck out three times in a game. But through Monday, an individual player has struck out four (or five) times in a game 56 times this season. (In 1955, there were 12 such times. No season before 1956 had more than 17)."
It's long, but I found it worth a read.
Would have been better without Nolan Ryan and Reggie Jackson saying typical "old guy" things...
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"He has a locker, I have an office." LaRussa showing zero respect for a guy who has been in the big leagues for 10 years.
The Twins were trying to gain a competitive advantage by bringing in a non-pitcher to pitch. And LaRussa defends the Twins while trashing multiple players on his own team. Unbelievable.
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"He has a locker, I have an office." LaRussa showing zero respect for a guy who has been in the big leagues for 10 years.
The Twins were trying to gain a competitive advantage by bringing in a non-pitcher to pitch. And LaRussa defends the Twins while trashing multiple players on his own team. Unbelievable.
Let me start with saying I have zero issue with guys taking their hacks in blowouts. The Tatis thing last year was also ridiculous.
Baseball is a sport that so heavily celebrates things like the 2,000 and 3,000 hit club. Or the 500+ homer club. But a guy isn't supposed to get a hit because his team is up 10?
I also think the way LaRussa and the Padres guy last year bus tossed their guys, was bad as well.
However, I did read that apparently a big part of the issue was Mercedes blatantly ignored a take sign and is playing it off with "thats just my playing style". Gotta be some accountability on the player in that situation, he gonna just blow off signs in a big october game?
So yeah, the unwritten rules are dumb and LaRussa media bagging his own guy is really dumb. But also appears LaRussa did have some reason to be ticked.
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Let me start with saying I have zero issue with guys taking their hacks in blowouts. The Tatis thing last year was also ridiculous.
Baseball is a sport that so heavily celebrates things like the 2,000 and 3,000 hit club. Or the 500+ homer club. But a guy isn't supposed to get a hit because his team is up 10?
I also think the way LaRussa and the Padres guy last year bus tossed their guys, was bad as well.
However, I did read that apparently a big part of the issue was Mercedes blatantly ignored a take sign and is playing it off with "thats just my playing style". Gotta be some accountability on the player in that situation, he gonna just blow off signs in a big october game?
So yeah, the unwritten rules are dumb and LaRussa media bagging his own guy is really dumb. But also appears LaRussa did have some reason to be ticked.
Sure, if that's the issue (which it obviously is not because it's clearly a La Russa unit swinging display and 'right way' nonsense display) then you give the player his medicine behind closed doors. Dragging him in public like this is unfathomably stupid. It's pure ego.
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“I can’t believe LaRussa as Sox manager isn’t going well.”
-No one (except Bob Nightengale)
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So yeah, the unwritten rules are dumb and LaRussa media bagging his own guy is really dumb. But also appears LaRussa did have some reason to be ticked.
There is no such thing as unwritten rules. If they WERE rules, they would be written down.
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There is no such thing as unwritten rules. If they WERE rules, they would be written down.
Aw, shít, here come shoothoops with a dissertation now.
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There is no such thing as unwritten rules. If they WERE rules, they would be written down.
There actually is a such thing.
There is however, no such "guideline" stating that a "rule" must be written down.
Lastly, no idea why you even are telling me this. I said they are all dumb. Pretty clearly.
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Unfounded conspiracy theory time!
La Russa is a Reinsdorf puppet, and Reinsdorf doesn't want to pony up more money for Mercedes' eventual arbitration hearing.
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“I can’t believe LaRussa as Sox manager isn’t going well.”
-No one (except Bob Nightengale)
Good grief. How long is his deal? 1 year... I hope I hope...
Man, I was hopeful that at least the basic strategy stuff would go better than it did with Ricky, but even that hasn't happened. What a complete disaster. Its amazing this team is where it is. And its quite a testament to guys like Abreu, TA, Giolito, Keuchel and the other leaders on the team.
Geesh, bring Ozzie back. Please. Or Ricky, or Terry freaking Bevington.
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There actually is a such thing.
There is however, no such "guideline" stating that a "rule" must be written down.
Lastly, no idea why you even are telling me this. I said they are all dumb. Pretty clearly.
I was just expanding on what you said.
You, apparently would rather argue. See ya'.
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I’ve never seen a no-hitter live, and I’ve been going to games my whole life.
That said, in 2021 a no-hitter is being tossed every 9.8 days. At some point, it has to no longer be “history making,” and get chalked up to simply a combination of awful offensive baseball and luck.
Let’s wait the entire season, or better yet another season or 3, before saying there is a definite trend that devalues no-hitters.
Heck, just a guy throwing a complete game seems like something from Walter Johnson’s time these days. To do so while not giving up a hit is still historic.
I’ve been lucky to see a few in person, including Buehrle’s perfecto, and I still enjoy getting to watch the final outs on TV, as in last night.
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I was just expanding on what you said.
You, apparently would rather argue. See ya'.
I wanted no part of an argument.
Hence my statement that the rules themselves are dumb. But yeah, see ya'.
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I’ve been lucky to see a few in person, including Buehrle’s perfecto, and I still enjoy getting to watch the final outs on TV, as in last night.
I was a big Nolan Ryan fan so when he was in Cleveland for the last time in August 1993, I decided to go down and hopefully see him get No. 8. Lofton led off for the Indians in the bottom of the first and laced one up the middle to break up the no-no. I was disappointed (although not surprised) but did turn out to see Ryan's final win in his career.
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I was a big Nolan Ryan fan so when he was in Cleveland for the last time in August 1993, I decided to go down and hopefully see him get No. 8. Lofton led off for the Indians in the bottom of the first and laced one up the middle to break up the no-no. I was disappointed (although not surprised) but did turn out to see Ryan's final win in his career.
That’s really cool, a little slice of history. I loved watching Ryan pitch, and I’m enough of an old phart to remember him as a wild, young pitcher whom the Mets gave up on.
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When Gerrit Cole struck out Joey Gallo last night, it was his 59th K without issuing a walk. Corbin Burnes record stood for 6 days.
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No-hitter alert!
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No-hitter alert!
Wake up your kids.
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Wake up your kids.
May never happen again. ::)
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The fifth no-hitter of the season came on May 18. Household-name Spencer Turnbull of the Detroit Tigers blanked the Mariners.
The sixth no-hitter of the season came on May 19. History was made when Corey Kluber blanked the Rangers.
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The sixth no-hitter of the season came on May 19. History was made when Corey Kluber blanked the Rangers.
Yes it was.
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On Corey Kluber Rangers bobblhead night. Cant script it any better
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Good grief. How long is his deal? 1 year... I hope I hope...
Man, I was hopeful that at least the basic strategy stuff would go better than it did with Ricky, but even that hasn't happened. What a complete disaster. Its amazing this team is where it is. And its quite a testament to guys like Abreu, TA, Giolito, Keuchel and the other leaders on the team.
Geesh, bring Ozzie back. Please. Or Ricky, or Terry freaking Bevington.
“I can’t believe LaRussa as Sox manager isn’t going well.”
-No one (except Bob Nightengale)
I mean, the Sox do have the best record in baseball, despite their starting outfielders missing 98 of 123 possible games. There's been a lot of unnecessary noise from LaRussa, and I'm not attributing much of the team's success to him, but things seem to be going OK, you know? Phrases like "complete disaster" and "isn't going well" don't seem to jibe with the results.
And buckchuckler ... with all due respect, please punch yourself in the dick the next time you think bringing back any of those guys might be a good idea.
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I mean, the Sox do have the best record in baseball, despite their starting outfielders missing 98 of 123 possible games. There's been a lot of unnecessary noise from LaRussa, and I'm not attributing much of the team's success to him, but things seem to be going OK, you know? Phrases like "complete disaster" and "isn't going well" don't seem to jibe with the results.
And buckchuckler ... with all due respect, please punch yourself in the dick the next time you think bringing back any of those guys might be a good idea.
OK, lets see, so, he is hired by the owner, without the support from the GM, after going what, 10 years with out managing? Doesn't seem great. Then we learn he was hired just after a DUI, which the team knew about. Then he tried to get out of the DUI because he is a "hall of fame baseball person". I think we are officially in bad territory. Then he directly contributes to his team losing because he doesn't know the rules, which he learned from a reporter after the game. Despite the David Bell, the other team's manager saying "The league made it really clear that it was going to be a new rule in spring training,". Ok that seems like really bad. Then he calls out one of his players for hitting a home run. That's just weird. Then, he supports the other team not only being upset they gave up a run with a DH pitching, but he is supportive of them throwing at his player, who hit a home run.
How is that not a complete disaster? Yeah the team has done well, but I would say that is in spite of Tony, not because of him. Maybe he is a magician behind the scenes or whatever, but it isn't readily apparent. That's for sure. The thing that has kept this team rolling is the pitching, which I think many attribute to Ethan Katz, who Tony didn't want to hire (That's right, he wanted Dave Duncan back, but he wanted to stay retired). Katz, was from all reports I saw, Hahn's hire.
I'd like to see what you have on the other side of the ledger that makes him a less than a disaster. And I left out weird, but subjective, game decisions completely. Honestly, I didn't hate the hire at the time, I didn't love it, but I wasn't one of the people that thought it was horrendous. But now, man. It looks terrible. There probably isn't a manager in baseball that couldn't have this team about where they are now, and I believe most would have them with a better record, as I believe Tony has cost them games.
TLR is the only guy that could spout off about unwritten rules, while at the same time not knowing the actual rules. Its an embarrassment. And if you think otherwise, it is your dick that needs punching.
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I mean, the Sox do have the best record in baseball, despite their starting outfielders missing 98 of 123 possible games. There's been a lot of unnecessary noise from LaRussa, and I'm not attributing much of the team's success to him, but things seem to be going OK, you know? Phrases like "complete disaster" and "isn't going well" don't seem to jibe with the results.
And buckchuckler ... with all due respect, please punch yourself in the dick the next time you think bringing back any of those guys might be a good idea.
Am I missing something? I think the SF Giants have the best record so far.
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Am I missing something? I think the SF Giants have the best record so far.
Yes, the Giants went up by .009 percentage points with their win last night.
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OK, lets see, so, he is hired by the owner, without the support from the GM, after going what, 10 years with out managing? Doesn't seem great. Then we learn he was hired just after a DUI, which the team knew about. Then he tried to get out of the DUI because he is a "hall of fame baseball person". I think we are officially in bad territory. Then he directly contributes to his team losing because he doesn't know the rules, which he learned from a reporter after the game. Despite the David Bell, the other team's manager saying "The league made it really clear that it was going to be a new rule in spring training,". Ok that seems like really bad. Then he calls out one of his players for hitting a home run. That's just weird. Then, he supports the other team not only being upset they gave up a run with a DH pitching, but he is supportive of them throwing at his player, who hit a home run.
How is that not a complete disaster? Yeah the team has done well, but I would say that is in spite of Tony, not because of him. Maybe he is a magician behind the scenes or whatever, but it isn't readily apparent. That's for sure. The thing that has kept this team rolling is the pitching, which I think many attribute to Ethan Katz, who Tony didn't want to hire (That's right, he wanted Dave Duncan back, but he wanted to stay retired). Katz, was from all reports I saw, Hahn's hire.
I'd like to see what you have on the other side of the ledger that makes him a less than a disaster. And I left out weird, but subjective, game decisions completely. Honestly, I didn't hate the hire at the time, I didn't love it, but I wasn't one of the people that thought it was horrendous. But now, man. It looks terrible. There probably isn't a manager in baseball that couldn't have this team about where they are now, and I believe most would have them with a better record, as I believe Tony has cost them games.
TLR is the only guy that could spout off about unwritten rules, while at the same time not knowing the actual rules. Its an embarrassment. And if you think otherwise, it is your dick that needs punching.
You seem mad.
But also, I'm not sure I can trust the opinion of someone who would prefer Terry Bevington to a sack old socks.
If best record in the AL despite ridiculously bad injury luck = "complete disaster," then I hope every year is a complete disaster.
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I mean, the Sox do have the best record in baseball, despite their starting outfielders missing 98 of 123 possible games. There's been a lot of unnecessary noise from LaRussa, and I'm not attributing much of the team's success to him, but things seem to be going OK, you know? Phrases like "complete disaster" and "isn't going well" don't seem to jibe with the results.
TLR has not known a rule that cost his team a game, he’s thrown multiple players under the bus (publicly), he’s left pitchers in when they’ve admitted postgame that they were past done...and it’s only May 20th. Those aren’t good things.
They’re not winning because of TLR, they are winning in spite of him. I enjoy being at the top of the standings, but I’ll be happy to be wrong if all of the above doesn’t catch up with the Sox.
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TLR has not known a rule that cost his team a game, he’s thrown multiple players under the bus (publicly), he’s left pitchers in when they’ve admitted postgame that they were past done...and it’s only May 20th. Those aren’t good things.
They’re not winning because of TLR, they are winning in spite of him. I enjoy being at the top of the standings, but I’ll be happy to be wrong if all of the above doesn’t catch up with the Sox.
The worst part of TLR is that he cares far more about telling everyone how smart he is than he cares about his players. Its not enough for him to have a perspective on Mercedes swinging away, he has to make sure everyone else knows what that perspective is even at the cost of his relationship with the player. It isn't enough to think that today's pitchers are soft compared to the innings they used to throw, he has to leave them in to prove it regardless of prevailing baseball and medical wisdom. You can have successful locker rooms that have a wide variety of personalities and opinions, but at the end of the day those guys have to care about each other. TLR couldn't give a sh!t less.
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TLR has not known a rule that cost his team a game, he’s thrown multiple players under the bus (publicly), he’s left pitchers in when they’ve admitted postgame that they were past done...and it’s only May 20th. Those aren’t good things.
They’re not winning because of TLR, they are winning in spite of him. I enjoy being at the top of the standings, but I’ll be happy to be wrong if all of the above doesn’t catch up with the Sox.
I must not be expressing myself very clearly.
I wrote that I thought it was a bad hire when it was made. I wrote last night that I'm not attributing the Sox's current success to LaRussa.
But it's pearl-clutching dramatics to come here screeching about what a "complete disaster" it is when the team is in first place ... especially when it's in first place (and yes, I keep hammering this point) minus its ENTIRE STARTING OUTFIELD.
And it's plain foolishness to be pining for the days of Terry Bevington and Rick Renteria.
Hey, I get it. LaRussa was an unpopular hire, and he's proving many of those critics correct ... and they're all falling over one another to be first to say "I told you so." Great. Who cares. First place.
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I must not be expressing myself very clearly.
I wrote that I thought it was a bad hire when it was made. I wrote last night that I'm not attributing the Sox's current success to LaRussa.
But it's pearl-clutching dramatics to come here screeching about what a "complete disaster" it is when the team is in first place ... especially when it's in first place (and yes, I keep hammering this point) minus its ENTIRE STARTING OUTFIELD.
And it's plain foolishness to be pining for the days of Terry Bevington and Rick Renteria.
Hey, I get it. LaRussa was an unpopular hire, and he's proving many of those critics correct ... and they're all falling over one another to be first to say "I told you so." Great. Who cares. First place.
To be fair, I'm not clamoring for Bevs or Renteria. My concern is that it's May 20th and these things add up during a grind of a season. If they were to lose 8 of 10 come August, does all the "stuff" from the early part of the season catch up to them and become a massive problem?
I said the other day how amazing it was that they were beating up the Twins without Robert, Jimenez, and Abreu (for half the Twins games).
All that said, I'm excited for the Yankees series, I think it'll be good for Cease to matchup with Cole.
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You seem mad.
But also, I'm not sure I can trust the opinion of someone who would prefer Terry Bevington to a sack old socks.
If best record in the AL despite ridiculously bad injury luck = "complete disaster," then I hope every year is a complete disaster.
Not mad at all, and boy, you took the Terry Bevington thing too seriously. The point was that Tony is terrible. He has been the disaster, not the team.
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I must not be expressing myself very clearly.
I wrote that I thought it was a bad hire when it was made. I wrote last night that I'm not attributing the Sox's current success to LaRussa.
But it's pearl-clutching dramatics to come here screeching about what a "complete disaster" it is when the team is in first place ... especially when it's in first place (and yes, I keep hammering this point) minus its ENTIRE STARTING OUTFIELD.
And it's plain foolishness to be pining for the days of Terry Bevington and Rick Renteria.
Hey, I get it. LaRussa was an unpopular hire, and he's proving many of those critics correct ... and they're all falling over one another to be first to say "I told you so." Great. Who cares. First place.
Boy, have I learned my lesson with this board. No more literary devices at all. Only type things that are exactly as I mean them.
And as I said, I wasn't one of the ones clamoring about how terrible the hire was at first. I thought he would at least be competent with game management. He hasn't been. For me, this isn't an I told you so, its more of an "I was wrong."
And yeah, the team is good. This team would be a playoff team with basically any manager at this point. Glad TLR hasn't totally screwed that up.
Upon further review, maybe you're right though, and disaster isn't the right word. Save that for the Twins. Embarrassment? Disgrace? Maybe those are better.
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La Russa is playing with fire. All it takes is an extended losing streak for everything to blow up. And with Leury Garcia, Billy Hamilton, and Jake Lamb playing regularly, it's only a matter of time. The hire has been worse than expected and that is saying a lot.
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I have seen some confusion with commentary regarding TLR. His game/past reputation is old school regarding behavior. It is not regarding baseball strategy.
His long time past reputation is old school when it comes to behavior. (“Hard 9” etc..) But this isn’t so regarding baseball strategy. He’s long been a tinkering, analytical manager before analytics were a thing. “Damage,” having power hitters bat 2nd, batting the pitcher 8th, all kinds of things. He was anything but old school with regard to baseball strategy. Dusty Baker would have been an example of someone that left pitchers in too long. TLR’s successor was also maligned at times for being too reactionary in his baseball strategy vs TLR approach.
More specifically, many of his pitching decisions were made by Dave Duncan for 28 years, (with input from the catcher.) Duncan’s approach was often different than some others out there during his time. Pitch to contact, limit pitches, pound bottom of zone with two seam fastballs, avoid extra base hits, exploit tendencies, first pitch strikes, breaking balls/off speed with runners on base. Many quick, endless, pitching changes based on matchups, and so on. (It isn’t surprising that Duncan’s son Shelley has an analytics role with the White Sox.)
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He also only knows the "old school" rules.
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I have seen some confusion commentary regarding TLR. His game/past reputation is old school regarding behavior. It is not regarding baseball strategy.
His long time past reputation is old school when it comes to behavior. (“Hard 9” etc..) But this isn’t so regarding baseball strategy. He’s long been a tinkering, analytical manager before analytics were a thing. “Damage,” having power hitters bat 2nd, batting the pitcher 8th, all kinds of things. He was anything but old school with regard to baseball strategy. Dusty Baker would have been an example of someone that left pitchers in too long. TLR’s successor was maligned at times for being too reactionary in his baseball strategy vs TLR approach.
More specifically, many of his pitching decisions were made by Dave Duncan for 28 years, (with input from the catcher.) Duncan’s approach was often different than some others out there during his time. Pitch to contact, limit pitches, pound bottom of zone with two seam fastballs, avoid extra base hits, exploit tendencies, first pitch strikes, breaking balls/off speed with runners on base. Many quick, endless, pitching changes based on matchups, and so on. (It isn’t surprising that Duncan’s son Shelley has an analytics role with the White Sox.)
But if the rest of the league has caught up to...and passed him...with regards to baseball strategy, then what exactly does he bring to the table? Especially when it seems like he may not fully understand how to manage a clubhouse that is younger and more diverse.
But what I don't understand foremost about the hire is that organizations should have a philosophy about how they approach the game strategically and tactically from the lower levels all the way to the top, with the manager of the major league club having a full understanding of that philosophy and how it is implemented at the major league level.
What's ironic about this is that the Cardinals of the LaRussa era are a GREAT example of how this should work. And I would argue that the Cardinals success has a lot more to do with this organization rather than LaRussa himself. But I don't see how doing this made any sense given where the White Sox are now.
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But if the rest of the league has caught up to...and passed him...with regards to baseball strategy, then what exactly does he bring to the table? Especially when it seems like he may not fully understand how to manage a clubhouse that is younger and more diverse.
But what I don't understand foremost about the hire is that organizations should have a philosophy about how they approach the game strategically and tactically from the lower levels all the way to the top, with the manager of the major league club having a full understanding of that philosophy and how it is implemented at the major league level.
What's ironic about this is that the Cardinals of the LaRussa era are a GREAT example of how this should work. And I would argue that the Cardinals success has a lot more to do with this organization rather than LaRussa himself. But I don't see how doing this made any sense given where the White Sox are now.
The GM put together the team and strategy, and the owner wanted to hire his buddy to coach. That's the disconnect. And as the owner, That's obviously his right, but the match was predictably rough, and we are seeing that play out right now.
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It’s a shame that the Sox, who are playing this well, finally start to get mentioned on all the national outlets and all that can be discussed is their managerial rift.
The White Sox were mentioned on every “hot take” ESPN talking head show yesterday; not once was the fantastic starting rotation discussed.
The Sox host St. Louis on a national broadcast Monday night. Watch that game and see how badly TLR has commandeered the attention from this (finally) exciting team.
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Willy Adames will fit in great with the brewers.
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Why, duz hee hit a buck fifty, strike out lots, and leeve runners inn scorin' position, hey?
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I'm thinking with pitching dominating this year is a result of last year's super short season.
With the limited season, the hitters timing is slightly off this year and with the extra rest the pitchers benefited and are a little stronger.
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Why, duz hee hit a buck fifty, strike out lots, and leeve runners inn scorin' position, hey?
Pretty much yes
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Willy Adames will fit in great with the brewers.
Good trade for both teams. Iris’s may be the worst SS in baseball this year. They had to do something.
TB gets 2 decent relievers and an open spot for the highest rated player in years in the Minors.
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Willy Adames will fit in great with the brewers.
He may be, but this is basically an admission that the Urias trade was a a giant f up. Adames is basically another bite at the apple of a high upside middle infielder. Higher floor than Urias because of the defense.
They need offense from somewhere, but this probably isn't it.
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He may be, but this is basically an admission that the Urias trade was a a giant f up. Adames is basically another bite at the apple of a high upside middle infielder. Higher floor than Urias because of the defense.
They need offense from somewhere, but this probably isn't it.
Urias trade was already bad. This makes it worse.
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Urias trade was already bad. This makes it worse.
I'd rather have them attempt to fix it than do nothing.
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I'd rather have them attempt to fix it than do nothing.
Agreed.
Stearns' track record has been pretty good, so a craptastic trade was bound to happen.
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Javy Baez I’d going to get way too much credit for the stupidity of the pirates today, who should probably just disband.
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Javy Baez I’d going to get way too much credit for the stupidity of the pirates today, who should probably just disband.
It was both a very stupid play by the Pirates, and a very astute play by Baez. Both can be true. Most guys just half heartedly run through the tag there
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It was both a very stupid play by the Pirates, and a very astute play by Baez. Both can be true. Most guys just half heartedly run through the tag there
all they had to do is take one step over to force out at first base or let him run all the way back to home plate or tag him. Any of those scenarios would not have scored a run.
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This reminded me of playing football during lunch in high school.
There was a kid who whenever he scrambled past the line of scrimmage would still pump fake and more often then not would still get someone to bite and turn his head.
Now none of us were professional athletes but commit to something hard enough. Then, well, you have this play...
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I’ve coached Little League teams that were smarter than the Pirates’ players.
The shots of the Cubs’ dugout breaking out in laughter is one thing, but I guarantee they are laughing at the Pirates in every clubhouse around the league.
It couldn’t have been worse if the 1st baseman just turned around and ran into the Cubs bullpen holding the ball aloft in one hand.
The best bit of proof ever that revenue sharing only enriches the owners.
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Sox city edition jerseys...my god, they are awesome.
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Sox city edition jerseys...my god, they are awesome.
Did anyone run the design by TLR? I fear those players in the promo video may be... dare I say it... having fun?
LaRussa's gonna have his hitting coach beaning players during BP.
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Javy Baez I’d going to get way too much credit for the stupidity of the pirates today, who should probably just disband.
The absolute dumbest play I have ever seen in a baseball game.
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Sox city edition jerseys...my god, they are awesome.
White Sox jerseys? I think they’ll be re-named LaRussa Jerseys.
The Chicago White Sox have renamed a seating area at Guaranteed Rate Field after manager Tony La Russa. Per Daryl Van Schouwen of the Chicago Sun-Times, the lounge that had previously been named in honor of long-time White Sox concessions worker Loretta Micele is now La Russa's Lounge.
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Sox city edition jerseys...my god, they are awesome.
Yeah, I like them. Pretty cool.
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White Sox jerseys? I think they’ll be re-named LaRussa Jerseys.
The Chicago White Sox have renamed a seating area at Guaranteed Rate Field after manager Tony La Russa. Per Daryl Van Schouwen of the Chicago Sun-Times, the lounge that had previously been named in honor of long-time White Sox concessions worker Loretta Micele is now La Russa's Lounge.
Yeah, that story is no bueno. Apparently they changed it at the end of 2019, and no fans noticed because no fans were there last year. It's dumb and bad optics...even if TLR wasn't their manager now, there was no reason to change it. I doubt he even cares there's a concourse lounge area named after him (let alone the optics of his DUI's). Being named after Loretta probably has/had way more meaning to her family than it ever would for TLR. I've sat in that lounge plenty of times with my kids (it's one of the few spots you can sit on the concourse and eat at), and didn't realize the backstory to why it was named Loretta's Lounge until now.
Overall, not a good look for the team, and a change that was totally unnecessary in my opinion.
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Yeah, that story is no bueno. Apparently they changed it at the end of 2019, and no fans noticed because no fans were there last year. It's dumb and bad optics...even if TLR wasn't their manager now, there was no reason to change it. I doubt he even cares there's a concourse lounge area named after him (let alone the optics of his DUI's). Being named after Loretta probably has/had way more meaning to her family than it ever would for TLR. I've sat in that lounge plenty of times with my kids (it's one of the few spots you can sit on the concourse and eat at), and didn't realize the backstory to why it was named Loretta's Lounge until now.
Overall, not a good look for the team, and a change that was totally unnecessary in my opinion.
Well, in 2019 LaRussa wasn't even around so more than likely they were looking for a paid sponsor. With COVID, likely those who knew the history were laid off and went to work elsewhere. Then for this season, no one wanted to pay to sponsor the lounge with no or few fans, so they defaulted to LaRussa until they could find a sponsor.
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Well, in 2019 LaRussa wasn't even around so more than likely they were looking for a paid sponsor. With COVID, likely those who knew the history were laid off and went to work elsewhere. Then for this season, no one wanted to pay to sponsor the lounge with no or few fans, so they defaulted to LaRussa until they could find a sponsor.
Covid was 2020.
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Yeah, that story is no bueno. Apparently they changed it at the end of 2019, and no fans noticed because no fans were there last year. It's dumb and bad optics...even if TLR wasn't their manager now, there was no reason to change it. I doubt he even cares there's a concourse lounge area named after him (let alone the optics of his DUI's). Being named after Loretta probably has/had way more meaning to her family than it ever would for TLR. I've sat in that lounge plenty of times with my kids (it's one of the few spots you can sit on the concourse and eat at), and didn't realize the backstory to why it was named Loretta's Lounge until now.
Overall, not a good look for the team, and a change that was totally unnecessary in my opinion.
It's stupid that the team changed the sign.
It's also stupid that anyone other than Loretta's loved ones are offended by this.
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Besides being fun and enjoyable, college baseball can be a tough business.
Popular Texas A&M Head Coach Rob Childress was let go after 16 seasons. He won over 600 games, made NCAA’s 13 of last 14 seasons. Six Super Regionals, Two College World Series.
Texas Tech Head Coach Tim Tadlock has turned down A&M’s offer, as Tech has matched it and is upgrading facilities.
Popular and successful LSU Head Coach Paul Mainieri “retired” after this season. 15 seasons. One National Title, another runner up, 5 College World Series Appearances, 3 other Super Regionals. And that’s only at LSU.
LSU’s AD is the former A&M AD so there will be some overlap in the hiring process.
There will be a couple of coaches out there getting premium baseball jobs, and, several others getting a nice pay raise to stay where they are.
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Last weekend, Yankees looked like one of the best teams in baseball, sweeping the White Sox.
This weekend they look like the worst team in baseball against one of MLB’s worst teams.
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Last weekend, Yankees looked like one of the best teams in baseball, sweeping the White Sox.
This weekend they look like the worst team in baseball against one of MLB’s worst teams.
Detroit is starting to find itself. They had about the worst 3 week stretch I can remember toward the end of April. 3-18. Other than that, playing .500 ball. Like most teams, needs to improve the little things. Still streaky. Erratic bullpen, fielding hitting.
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Detroit is starting to find itself. They had about the worst 3 week stretch I can remember toward the end of April. 3-18. Other than that, playing .500 ball. Like most teams, needs to improve the little things. Still streaky. Erratic bullpen, fielding hitting.
Finding it just in time to play the Brewers, who may also be finding it a bit.
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It's stupid that the team changed the sign.
It's also stupid that anyone other than Loretta's loved ones are offended by this.
Can we retire using the word offended whenever people express a negative opinion of something? This isn't meant to specifically @ you Pak, because the same thing was happening with Ultimate Warriors all over the TBT thread. But my take on this is "wow, what a stupid thing to do that cancels out a previously cool thing they did. I have a sour taste in my mouth w/r/t the White Sox org (at least for a little while) as a result." Similarly, the Ultimate Warriors thing would have caused me to take a little less enjoyment out of our TBT team. Not sure that means I'm #offended / #triggered. Being "offended" seems to be this straw man standard we apply to all negative opinions now.
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I would say I’m disappointed, as opposed to offended. They did a nice thing to start with and then lost some good will.
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James Madison Softball.
What a ride.
CC Alexander. What a player.
https://twitter.com/ncaasoftball/status/1400986731315355649?s=21
Improves to 18-1 as a pitcher. (41-2 Team). Bats 3rd. Had .935 OPS this year.
Goes into #8 Mizzou and takes 2 of 3 in Super Regionals. Heads to Oklahoma City for College World Series. Then defeats top ranked, big offense, Oklahoma. And, they follow it up with a win over Oklahoma St. to advance to the College World Series Semis.
Big time.
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Gerrit Cole’s answer to the Spider Tack question was cringe worthy. He should have been better prepared to answer that.
I’m not trying to single him out either, there was a Sox pitcher last year that was (to me) blatantly using something before each pitch.
Be interesting to see how this plays out, my assumption with pitchers has been “if you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying.”
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Gerrit Cole’s answer to the Spider Tack question was cringe worthy. He should have been better prepared to answer that.
I’m not trying to single him out either, there was a Sox pitcher last year that was (to me) blatantly using something before each pitch.
Be interesting to see how this plays out, my assumption with pitchers has been “if you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying.”
I had a great convo with someone last night about this issue and his take (which I totally agree with) was basically pitchers reaction to juicing the ball was "fine, we're gonna use junk and good luck making contact." My friend is plugged into the sport at a pretty high level and he was saying essentially that 100% of pitchers are using something at this point and pitching coaches are 100% encouraging them to. "Every manager wants his okay guys to be good and his good guys to be great."
He pointed out Trevor Bauer essentially calling out the not-ubiquitous use of spider tack in 2019, him getting essentially ignored, and then saying "fine, you want it that way let's go." Then goes out and wins a Cy Young and gets a rich contract.
I'm interested to see how this crackdown goes.
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Sox city edition jerseys...my god, they are awesome.
As awesome as the Sox city edition jerseys are, the Cubs' city editions are equivalently terrible.
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Gerrit Cole’s answer to the Spider Tack question was cringe worthy. He should have been better prepared to answer that.
I’m not trying to single him out either, there was a Sox pitcher last year that was (to me) blatantly using something before each pitch.
Be interesting to see how this plays out, my assumption with pitchers has been “if you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying.”
Use of sticky stuff by pitchers has been going on for years. The only difference now is new products and more adherents.
The big question is why crackdown now. Why not 5 years ago? Why mot last year? I don't know that the sticky alone is making pitchers more effective - but rather a combo of sticky and velocity.
So why now? My personal feeling is that it has more to do with the CBA than anything else. The owners have a long history of trashing players or demonizing them right before a contract negotiation.
Your opinion?
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I thought the general thought was jitters are ok with pitchers using substances as it helps their control. It keeps them from getting hit more.
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I thought the general thought was jitters are ok with pitchers using substances as it helps their control. It keeps them from getting hit more.
I thought the same until I checked the stats. The four years with the highest rate of HBP since 1900 are the last 4 years.
I think instead it may just be that velocity is king. Pitchers that aren't ready for the majors are being brought up just because they can throw 98+. And hitters don't have enough time to get out of the way.
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So why now? My personal feeling is that it has more to do with the CBA than anything else. The owners have a long history of trashing players or demonizing them right before a contract negotiation.
Jockey and Pete Alonso from the top rope!!
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31599594/new-york-mets-pete-alonso-posits-mlb-manipulates-baseball-based-free-agent-class (https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31599594/new-york-mets-pete-alonso-posits-mlb-manipulates-baseball-based-free-agent-class)
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Jockey and Pete Alonso from the top rope!!
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31599594/new-york-mets-pete-alonso-posits-mlb-manipulates-baseball-based-free-agent-class (https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31599594/new-york-mets-pete-alonso-posits-mlb-manipulates-baseball-based-free-agent-class)
A bit different from my post, but they certainly could be classified under the same heading.
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Looks like Travis Shaw is toasty. Really nasty injury.
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Through 10 starts, DeGrom has more RBI than Earned Runs.
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Let’s see what happens after they take the sticky stuff away from him.
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Let’s see what happens after they take the sticky stuff away from him.
LO......................L
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Let’s see what happens after they take the sticky stuff away from him.
Dude is throwing over 100 with regularity, and is throwing sliders at 93-95 MPH. Dude is just a freak of nature who throws blisteringly fast pitches with accuracy and control. Not some spin master aided by sticky stuff
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Dude is throwing over 100 with regularity, and is throwing sliders at 93-95 MPH. Dude is just a freak of nature who throws blisteringly fast pitches with accuracy and control. Not some spin master aided by sticky stuff
I agree... except I think they all use sticky stuff
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Gerrit Cole’s answer to the Spider Tack question was cringe worthy.
Cringe worthy? Sure. But also one of the funniest things I've seen in sports in a long, long time. I was flooded with memories of dealing with my son when he was three.
"Son, did you eat the cookie?"
"Ummm...I don't....I don't know, uh, uh...I..I don't know if uh...I don't know quite...I don't quite know how to answer that to be honest."
YouTube link to the interview (https://youtu.be/UCvwEBYZJUc)
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Dude is throwing over 100 with regularity, and is throwing sliders at 93-95 MPH. Dude is just a freak of nature who throws blisteringly fast pitches with accuracy and control. Not some spin master aided by sticky stuff
Yes he is the best pitcher in baseball right now. Yes, he uses sticky stuff to enhance what he does.
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Yes he is the best pitcher in baseball right now. Yes, he uses sticky stuff to enhance what he does.
Ok man. Be more miserable and high and mighty about it. He’s absolutely unreal, putting up insane numbers, has never been suspected of anything shady, but you choose to shade his performance cause you don’t like the state of current pitching.
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Ok man. Be more miserable and high and mighty about it. He’s absolutely unreal, putting up insane numbers, has never been suspected of anything shady, but you choose to shade his performance cause you don’t like the state of current pitching.
Bonds and McGwire put up unreal numbers with the aid of a substance. DeGrom is doing the same.
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Ok man. Be more miserable and high and mighty about it. He’s absolutely unreal, putting up insane numbers, has never been suspected of anything shady, but you choose to shade his performance cause you don’t like the state of current pitching.
FWIW I think it's possible to be awed by DeGrom's performance and also be realistic about the fact that 100% of pitchers are using grip enhancers. These things are not mutually exclusive.
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FWIW I think it's possible to be awed by DeGrom's performance and also be realistic about the fact that 100% of pitchers are using grip enhancers. These things are not mutually exclusive.
I have nothing against being realistic. But the response to someone who is amazing to watch right now being “yea let’s see him take X away” like he’s flagrantly cheating or using something is just so curmudgeon-esque.
Like you said, 100% of pitchers are doing it, but yet DeGrom has an era 0.75 lower than the next closest and a full point below others in the top 5. You could remove all grip enhancers and he’d still be the best doing it. That’s all I’m saying.
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Bonds and McGwire put up unreal numbers with the aid of a substance. DeGrom is doing the same.
Just to be clear(will be helpful for myself and any rational baseball fan)
When you post are you trying to be the biggest dumbass possible?
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I have nothing against being realistic. But the response to someone who is amazing to watch right now being “yea let’s see him take X away” like he’s flagrantly cheating or using something is just so curmudgeon-esque.
Like you said, 100% of pitchers are doing it, but yet DeGrom has an era 0.75 lower than the next closest and a full point below others in the top 5. You could remove all grip enhancers and he’d still be the best doing it. That’s all I’m saying.
Ah, totally fair. And while I generally think a move to reduce the tack will be good for the viewing product, I'm not so joyless as to not be entertained by pitchers throwing smoke in the meantime.
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Baseball Reference Adds Negro Leagues Statistics, Rewriting Its Record Book
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/15/sports/baseball/baseball-reference-negro-leagues.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20210615&instance_id=33021&nl=the-morning®i_id=108420427&segment_id=60700&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
The lead:
On Monday, Baseball Reference, the go-to source on the internet for such matters, would have told you that Stan Musial led the major leagues with a .357 batting average in 1943. It also would have said numerous pitchers took a turn leading the majors in strikeouts per nine innings between 1927 and 1945, and that the top three batters in career adjusted on-base-plus-slugging percentage were Babe Ruth, Ted Williams and Barry Bonds.
A day later, all of that looks much different. Now, Josh Gibson of the Homestead Grays has surpassed Musial with a .466 average in 1943. Satchel Paige, a dominant pitcher for more than 20 seasons, has taken over eight of those strikeout titles. And Oscar Charleston, perhaps the finest all-around player in Negro leagues history, has bumped Bonds for the third-best career mark in adjusted O.P.S.
“A lot of new books on baseball trivia will be coming out in the next few years,” Sean Forman, the founder and president of Sports Reference, joked on a video call ahead of his baseball site’s announcement on Tuesday that it had dramatically changed and expanded its accounting of the Negro leagues. The move comes ahead of Major League Baseball’s own plans to incorporate the statistics into their historical record, which could happen this coming off-season.
The reason for Baseball Reference’s adjustment date to August, when Forman said he read an article about how players from the Negro leagues remained uncounted among the official major leagues and that Major League Baseball was considering formally recognizing several of those leagues as on par with its American and National leagues.
Until 1947, Black players had been excluded from the major leagues. And long after Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier, the accomplishments of most Black players remained overlooked. A committee of five white men in 1969 granted major league status to four defunct organizations, but chose not to include the Negro leagues, an omission M.L.B. called “clearly an error” in December when it announced it was finally redressing that past racial wrong and bestowing “long overdue recognition” to more than 3,400 payers from seven distinct Negro leagues that operated between 1920 and 1948.
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Ah, totally fair. And while I generally think a move to reduce the tack will be good for the viewing product, I'm not so joyless as to not be entertained by pitchers throwing smoke in the meantime.
I'm kind of surprised that the move by MLB is to outlaw all tack and that the pitchers are just going along with it. I know it is "cheating" and after the Astros everyone's antennae are on the lookout for things that are against the rules. But I think we have to assume that just about every single pitcher in the game has been using some kind of tack at this point. And while offense has been down, there are good things about pitchers having a little more control. When Giancarlo Stanton has his face rearranged again, are we going to be talking about reintroducing some kind of permissible tack? I thought MLB would introduce an "official" approved substance, rather than outlaw everything wholesale.
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I'm kind of surprised that the move by MLB is to outlaw all tack and that the pitchers are just going along with it. I know it is "cheating" and after the Astros everyone's antennae are on the lookout for things that are against the rules. But I think we have to assume that just about every single pitcher in the game has been using some kind of tack at this point. And while offense has been down, there are good things about pitchers having a little more control. When Giancarlo Stanton has his face rearranged again, are we going to be talking about reintroducing some kind of permissible tack? I thought MLB would introduce an "official" approved substance, rather than outlaw everything wholesale.
Haven't they been using rosin bags in the MLB forever? Do they still? Is that the only acceptable tack?
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When the substance stuff shakes out, I hope the airbender still works. It's fun as heck to watch. (It probably won't work).
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I'm kind of surprised that the move by MLB is to outlaw all tack and that the pitchers are just going along with it.
The pitchers definitely aren't just going along with it. A lot of upset pitchers out there (see: Tyler Glasnow, Trevor Bauer).
I kind of see their point, in that it seems unfair for MLB to abruptly change things midseason. That said, their argument ultimately comes down to "it's unfair to stop us from cheating now after allowing us to cheat before."
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How about those Redlegs!
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The pitchers definitely aren't just going along with it. A lot of upset pitchers out there (see: Tyler Glasnow, Trevor Bauer).
I kind of see their point, in that it seems unfair for MLB to abruptly change things midseason. That said, their argument ultimately comes down to "it's unfair to stop us from cheating now after allowing us to cheat before."
Depends on the "cheating". What most of them are complaining about is removing of EVERYTHING sans rosin.
Technically everything beyond that was "cheating" by definition but no one even the hitters considered mixing in things like sunscreen as bad. It's all about the advanced enhancers like Spider Track. But MLB decided to just go over the top.
Even the hitters want guys to have a solid grip, safer for everyone involved.
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The fact this Sunday Night Baseball’s ESPN National telecast is Cardinals at Braves- instead of the White Sox at Astros- epitomizes MLB having no idea how to market itself.
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Depends on the "cheating". What most of them are complaining about is removing of EVERYTHING sans rosin.
Technically everything beyond that was "cheating" by definition but no one even the hitters considered mixing in things like sunscreen as bad. It's all about the advanced enhancers like Spider Track. But MLB decided to just go over the top.
Even the hitters want guys to have a solid grip, safer for everyone involved.
Sounds good - except it is wrong. More batters are getting hit now than anytime in the last 100+ years.
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The pitchers definitely aren't just going along with it. A lot of upset pitchers out there (see: Tyler Glasnow, Trevor Bauer).
I kind of see their point, in that it seems unfair for MLB to abruptly change things midseason. That said, their argument ultimately comes down to "it's unfair to stop us from cheating now after allowing us to cheat before."
Bauer is pissed cause he pointed/called it out on the past, was largely ignored, said screw it and everything progressed. And now they are jumping to it and swinging AGGRESSIVELY back the other way. MLB has always been tone deaf so it’s not exactly surprising
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Bauer is pissed cause he pointed/called it out on the past, was largely ignored, said screw it and everything progressed. And now they are jumping to it and swinging AGGRESSIVELY back the other way. MLB has always been tone deaf so it’s not exactly surprising
They are doing it mid-season for one basic reason. The CBA. They want the union fighting amongst themselves.
The NBA and NFL market their stars. MLB has never done that.
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Is there a league that hates its own sport more than MLB?
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Is there a league that hates its own sport more than MLB?
They've always been that way, but Manfred makes it so much worse. I don't think he's ever said or done anything that makes it look like he loves the game.
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They are doing it mid-season for one basic reason. The CBA. They want the union fighting amongst themselves.
The NBA and NFL market their stars. MLB has never done that.
MLB tries to market their stars. But when you take the big $$ that regional cable offers you, they aren't given a national platform on which to perform. IMO this is the biggest problem with MLB marketing. Sure its great that you earn short-term $$ watching your local team every night, but there are hardly any national games any longer. So who do you market and how do you do it?
Is there a league that hates its own sport more than MLB?
What does this even mean? It seems to me that other sports are perfectly fine with adopting the game to fit the marketplace, but every rule change in baseball is fraught with debates about tradition.
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They've always been that way, but Manfred makes it so much worse. I don't think he's ever said or done anything that makes it look like he loves the game.
I'm always mildly amused by how much everyone seems to HATE Manfred. And here we have him ascending to some special tier of awful commissioners as though everyone doesn't loathe Goodell, to say nothing of Bettman. I'm pretty sure the entire nation of Canada pooled their maple syrup to put out a hit on Bettman during the work stoppage.
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I'm always mildly amused by how much everyone seems to HATE Manfred. And here we have him ascending to some special tier of awful commissioners as though everyone doesn't loathe Goodell, to say nothing of Bettman. I'm pretty sure the entire nation of Canada pooled their maple syrup to put out a hit on Bettman during the work stoppage.
I think what sets Manfred apart is his open contempt for his own product. Across the other leagues, its something of a given that the commissioner's job is to be a front for ownership, and while no one likes that, it kind of is what it is. Other commissioners are booed and everything they say is viewed with suspicion. But Manfred seems on a whole other level. A guy like Goodell is loathed, but he clearly views the shield with the same reverence as religious icons. So when he misses, at least it comes from that place. It seems like Manfred would love to be the commissioner of baseball if it werent for that whole baseball thing.
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Depends on the "cheating". What most of them are complaining about is removing of EVERYTHING sans rosin.
Technically everything beyond that was "cheating" by definition but no one even the hitters considered mixing in things like sunscreen as bad. It's all about the advanced enhancers like Spider Track. But MLB decided to just go over the top.
Even the hitters want guys to have a solid grip, safer for everyone involved.
The rules ban the application of any substance to the ball. So, applying any substance to the ball is cheating. Not "technically cheating" ... just cheating. I sympathize with the pitchers in that MLB is going to strictly enforce this with virtually no warning and after taking a lax approach for years and years. But the actual rule is black and white.
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The rules ban the application of any substance to the ball. So, applying any substance to the ball is cheating. Not "technically cheating" ... just cheating. I sympathize with the pitchers in that MLB is going to strictly enforce this with virtually no warning and after taking a lax approach for years and years. But the actual rule is black and white.
So, it’s another “unwritten rule” of baseball?
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So, it’s another “unwritten rule” of baseball?
No, it's an actual written rule.
https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/atcjzj9j7wrgvsm8wnjq.pdf
(c) Pitching Prohibitions
The pitcher shall not:
(1) While in the 18-foot circle surrounding the pitcher’s plate, touch the ball after touching his mouth or lips, or touch his mouth or lips while he is in contact with the pitcher’s plate. The pitcher must clearly wipe the fingers of his pitching hand dry before touching the ball or the pitcher’s plate.
EXCEPTION: Provided it is agreed to by both managers, the umpire prior to the start of a game played in cold weather, may permit the pitcher to blow on his hand
PENALTY: For violation of this part of this rule the umpires shall immediately remove the ball from play and issue a warning to the pitcher. Any subsequent violation shall be called a ball. However, if the pitch is made and a batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a hit batsman or otherwise, and no other runner is put out before advancing at least one base, the play shall proceed without reference to the violation. Repeat offenders shall be subject to a fine by the Office of the Commissioner.
(2) expectorate on the ball, either hand or his glove;
(3) rub the ball on his glove, person or clothing;
(4) apply a foreign substance of any kind to the ball
(5) deface the ball in any manner; or
(6) deliver a ball altered in a manner prescribed by Rule 6.02(c)(2) through (5) or what is called the “shine” ball, “spit” ball, “mud” ball or “emery” ball. The pitcher is allowed to rub the ball between his bare hands.
(7)Have on his person, or in his possession, any foreign substance.
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No, it's an actual written rule.
https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/atcjzj9j7wrgvsm8wnjq.pdf
(c) Pitching Prohibitions
The pitcher shall not:
(1) While in the 18-foot circle surrounding the pitcher’s plate, touch the ball after touching his mouth or lips, or touch his mouth or lips while he is in contact with the pitcher’s plate. The pitcher must clearly wipe the fingers of his pitching hand dry before touching the ball or the pitcher’s plate.
EXCEPTION: Provided it is agreed to by both managers, the umpire prior to the start of a game played in cold weather, may permit the pitcher to blow on his hand
PENALTY: For violation of this part of this rule the umpires shall immediately remove the ball from play and issue a warning to the pitcher. Any subsequent violation shall be called a ball. However, if the pitch is made and a batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a hit batsman or otherwise, and no other runner is put out before advancing at least one base, the play shall proceed without reference to the violation. Repeat offenders shall be subject to a fine by the Office of the Commissioner.
(2) expectorate on the ball, either hand or his glove;
(3) rub the ball on his glove, person or clothing;
(4) apply a foreign substance of any kind to the ball
(5) deface the ball in any manner; or
(6) deliver a ball altered in a manner prescribed by Rule 6.02(c)(2) through (5) or what is called the “shine” ball, “spit” ball, “mud” ball or “emery” ball. The pitcher is allowed to rub the ball between his bare hands.
(7)Have on his person, or in his possession, any foreign substance.
So, the “unwritten rule” is to ignore the written rule, like sign stealing, throwing at a batter, hollowing out your bat, center field videographers.
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So, the “unwritten rule” is to ignore the written rule, like sign stealing, throwing at a batter, hollowing out your bat, center field videographers.
You're wrong on some of these. There is no rule against stealing signs unless done digitally. Stealing the signs that are given by the third base coach, or those of the catcher by a baserunner on 2B, is acceptable, and it is up to the team giving the signs to protect them so they are not stolen.
It is also not illegal to hollow out a bat.
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So, the “unwritten rule” is to ignore the written rule, like sign stealing, throwing at a batter, hollowing out your bat, center field videographers.
it's more like how cops (i.e. umps) won't pull you over and give you a ticket for going 5 mph over the speed limit (i.e. using mild adhesives to improve grip).
But now everyone is going 15 over the speed limit ( i.e. using stuff like spider tack) and it's getting dangerous out there (i.e. batting averages and OBP are the lowest in more than 50 years*), so now the cops are cracking down on everyone.
* Pitchers improving grips and using foreign substances aren't the only reasons for this, but it's the easiest one for MLB to control.
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It seems like Manfred would love to be the commissioner of baseball if it werent for that whole baseball thing.
Again, like how? I just don't understand this statement.
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Again, like how? I just don't understand this statement.
Just off the top of my head, ….. calling the World Series trophy a hunk of metal is showing about as much disdain for MLB as is humanly possible.
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Just off the top of my head, ….. calling the World Series trophy a hunk of metal is showing about as much disdain for MLB as is humanly possible.
That's a bit much. It's certainly tone deaf, but "as much disdain for MLB as is humanly possible?" Apparently you have paid precious little attention to how humans usually show disdain.
I'm not a Manfred stan by any stretch btw, and it fees odd sorta defending him here, but this is sort of what I was talking about. Abject HATE for the dude.
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Just off the top of my head, ….. calling the World Series trophy a hunk of metal is showing about as much disdain for MLB as is humanly possible.
Actually called it a "piece" of metal, and in context, his remarks weren't so bad. In reference to demands that the Astros be required to surrender their 2017 trophy, he said "The idea of an asterisk or asking for a piece of metal back seems like a futile act."
And he's right! The Astros giving back a trophy would have all the impact of Louisville taking down a Final Four banner ... which is to say, none at all.
There are plenty of reasons to dislike Manfred. Him "disrespecting" a trophy by correctly describing it isn't too high on the list. This isn't the Stanley Cup. Nobody waxes poetic about winning it.
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Yeah, I mean I not not a Manfred hater by any means, but even I could come up with a couple of things (7 inning double headers, man on second to start the 10th) that are a lot worse than calling the WS trophy a piece of metal.
Really though he is in a tough spot. It's a sport with an aging fanbase and an abysmal following with the next generation of fans. He's dealing with years of neglect in that respect.
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That's a bit much. It's certainly tone deaf, but "as much disdain for MLB as is humanly possible?" Apparently you have paid precious little attention to how humans usually show disdain.
I'm not a Manfred stan by any stretch btw, and it fees odd sorta defending him here, but this is sort of what I was talking about. Abject HATE for the dude.
No respect for the ultimate trophy in the game.
Talking about future World Series to be played at neutral sites. So no respect for the traditions or fans. Now, a team’s fans can attend WSGames. He would make it for rich, corporate types only.
He doesn’t care about the game other than as a vehicle to make money and shows disdain for a team’s loyal fans.
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No respect for the ultimate trophy in the game.
Talking about future World Series to be played at neutral sites. So no respect for the traditions or fans. Now, a team’s fans can attend WSGames. He would make it for rich, corporate types only.
He literally said fans are the reason he'd be opposed to neutral sites.
The big weight on the scale in favor of our traditional format, the thing that really matters at the end of the day, are fans in home markets.
https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2020/11/3/21546657/neutral-site-world-series-is-actually-a-negative-mlb-rob-manfred
I think it would be a terrible idea, but I also don't believe the NFL has disdain for its fans for its neutral site Super Bowl, or the NCAA has disdain for fans because of neutral site playoffs and tournaments.
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He literally said fans are the reason he'd be opposed to neutral sites.
The big weight on the scale in favor of our traditional format, the thing that really matters at the end of the day, are fans in home markets.
https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2020/11/3/21546657/neutral-site-world-series-is-actually-a-negative-mlb-rob-manfred
I think it would be a terrible idea, but I also don't believe the NFL has disdain for its fans for its neutral site Super Bowl, or the NCAA has disdain for fans because of neutral site playoffs and tournaments.
Yet he is still considering it.
The comparison to the NFL makes no sense. They play 16 games as opposed to 162. The number of unique fans who attend NFL games and MLB is not even remotely comparable.
The NCAA has almost always played at a neutral site. It would be hard to book arenas ahead of time when it is unknown if or when a team would play. Basically, they would have to book well over 100 sites and make sure they were all done at a time when there were no other big events happening that would take up most of the hotel space in each city. On weekends.
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No respect for the ultimate trophy in the game.
Talking about future World Series to be played at neutral sites. So no respect for the traditions or fans. Now, a team’s fans can attend WSGames. He would make it for rich, corporate types only.
He doesn’t care about the game other than as a vehicle to make money and shows disdain for a team’s loyal fans.
Where to play the World Series isn’t really about “the game.” It’s about Major League Baseball.
And he didn’t “disrespect the trophy.” Pakuni explained it and you ignored it.
Again one can criticize the decisions, but none of this seems like him not liking baseball.
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I'm not a Manfred stan by any stretch.
Not a Manfred Mann man either, but their covers of “Mighty Quinn” and “Blinded By The Light” we’re pretty good.
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Always a festive time of year in Omaha just before the beginning of the College World Series and the end of the U.S. Olympic Swim Trials.
Stanford, NC State, Arizona, Vandy, Texas, Mississippi St., Tennessee, Virginia.
Forecast looks good. Mississippi St. is seeking its first National Title in any sport. Tennessee and NC State are there as infrequent arrivals who’ve never won it. Vandy is seeking back to back National Titles and their 3rd in 7 years. Arizona and UVA also have a National Title this past decade. It’s two time Champion Stanford’s first trip in 15 years. Texas tries to add to its long past success.
Texas A&M hired TCU’s Jim Schlossnagle after a long successful run in Fort Worth. LSU is still talking with candidates after Paul Mainieri retired. Ole Miss’ Mike Bianco and East Carolina’s Cliff Godwin are among the current candidates. Florida’s Kevin O’Sullivan staying at Florida. And it appears Tony Vitello will get a but raise and facility upgrade to stay at Tennessee.
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Yeah, I mean I not not a Manfred hater by any means, but even I could come up with a couple of things (7 inning double headers, man on second to start the 10th) that are a lot worse than calling the WS trophy a piece of metal.
Really though he is in a tough spot. It's a sport with an aging fanbase and an abysmal following with the next generation of fans. He's dealing with years of neglect in that respect.
I’m an old fogey when it comes to baseball rules, but the runner on second to start the 10th is growing on me. Extra inning games can be brutal if you’re there live and want to stay for the whole game (I always do) or you’re at home watching late at night. Maybe a good compromise would be to have that runner on second starting from the 12th on?
7 inning doubleheaders are trash, though. Completely changes the complexion of a game from the first pitch. Why not just let teams call up 2-3 extra arms for doubleheaders, if that’s what they’re worried about?
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Yet he is still considering it.
The comparison to the NFL makes no sense. They play 16 games as opposed to 162. The number of unique fans who attend NFL games and MLB is not even remotely comparable.
The NCAA has almost always played at a neutral site. It would be hard to book arenas ahead of time when it is unknown if or when a team would play. Basically, they would have to book well over 100 sites and make sure they were all done at a time when there were no other big events happening that would take up most of the hotel space in each city. On weekends.
I don't know why I'm doing this because you're clearly in 100% Pathos territory, but...
Why shouldn't he consider options? Isn't that his job? From the sounds of it they idea was considered *and rejected*, so... why are you still mad about it? Even the decisions that have been made, like the 7 inning doubleheaders or free runner on 2nd in extras or the foreign substance ban, do you think he's just sitting in an office in New York, being struck by mad euphoric inspiration, and dashing off commandments based exclusively on his whims? He's the public face (and whipping boy) for decisions that are being made on a league-wide basis.
To the extent that you have gripes, man, I think they're probably better directed at some committee of owners and GMs, not some dastardly greedy commissioner trying to bleed money out of the sport without a care for the long term health of the game.
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I don't know why I'm doing this because you're clearly in 100% Pathos territory, but...
Why shouldn't he consider options? Isn't that his job? From the sounds of it they idea was considered *and rejected*, so... why are you still mad about it? Even the decisions that have been made, like the 7 inning doubleheaders or free runner on 2nd in extras or the foreign substance ban, do you think he's just sitting in an office in New York, being struck by mad euphoric inspiration, and dashing off commandments based exclusively on his whims? He's the public face (and whipping boy) for decisions that are being made on a league-wide basis.
To the extent that you have gripes, man, I think they're probably better directed at some committee of owners and GMs, not some dastardly greedy commissioner trying to bleed money out of the sport without a care for the long term health of the game.
And I would argue that doing nothing would be much more detrimental to the long-term health of the game than trying to do something different. Baseball has made a series of short-term decisions over the last 20 years that has undermined the long-term health of the game. One could argue if their ideas are actually effective, but I most certainly understand why they are considering different things.
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Again, like how? I just don't understand this statement.
"Doesn't like baseball" may be a bit nebulous but I think that Manfred views the commissioner role too narrowly, and sees his only function as countering the players union. While a primary piece of the commisioner's role is to be the frontman for ownership vs the players, there is a PR and growing the game aspect to running a major sports league that I don't think Manfred has any interest in. Manfred's formative experience in baseball was being hired as outside labor counsel. Once he became employed by MLB, he focused pretty much solely on labor issues until being promoted to COO only one year before he succeeded Selig. It isn't unusual for commissioners' to get their starts in high profile legal careers in labor law, but most of those guys played significant roles other than stricly labor issues before becoming commissioners. Guys like Tagliabue-Goodell and Stern-Silver all pretty clearly understood their goal was to raise the tide first, then secure the biggest part of the gains for the league vs the players second. Maybe I shouldn't attribute to malice what can be attirbuted to ignorance, but Manfred seems to view his role as countering the players first, second, and third, and then growing the game if he has time.
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"Doesn't like baseball" may be a bit nebulous but I think that Manfred views the commissioner role too narrowly, and sees his only function as countering the players union. While a primary piece of the commisioner's role is to be the frontman for ownership vs the players, there is a PR and growing the game aspect to running a major sports league that I don't think Manfred has any interest in. Manfred's formative experience in baseball was being hired as outside labor counsel. Once he became employed by MLB, he focused pretty much solely on labor issues until being promoted to COO only one year before he succeeded Selig. It isn't unusual for commissioners' to get their starts in high profile legal careers in labor law, but most of those guys played significant roles other than stricly labor issues before becoming commissioners. Guys like Tagliabue-Goodell and Stern-Silver all pretty clearly understood their goal was to raise the tide first, then secure the biggest part of the gains for the league vs the players second. Maybe I shouldn't attribute to malice what can be attirbuted to ignorance, but Manfred seems to view his role as countering the players first, second, and third, and then growing the game if he has time.
Thank you. This makes a lot more sense to me.
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Thank you. This makes a lot more sense to me.
Absolutely - the challenge to cite to specific examples is a good one. I think there's a widespread perception Manfred "hates the game." Googling "Rob Manfred hates baseball" turns up op-eds in legit publications:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/10/22/rob-manfred-world-series-commissioner/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/10/22/rob-manfred-world-series-commissioner/)
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/aug/05/does-mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-really-hate-baseball (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/aug/05/does-mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-really-hate-baseball)
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-sure-seems-to-hate-baseball/1xa2erynjjago1u7t4601jkig8
(https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-sure-seems-to-hate-baseball/1xa2erynjjago1u7t4601jkig8)
But the evidence for that dramatic a claim is all pretty iffy. I think the more correct way to be a little melodramatic about it is that Manfred hates baseball players, which speaks to the labor toxicity in baseball right now, and explains why a lot of purists don't trust a Manfred administration to make significant changes to the game, even if they are necessary or in the game's long term best interest.
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I also think baseball is more burdened with its past and with "purists" than the other sports. Sure I think that there are those who wish that the NFL still emphasized the run more, and that the NBA had less emphasis on the three point shot, but changes to those games don't seem to be considered as concerning as changes to baseball.
And that makes it very hard to try new things and have them seen as improvements.
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Buxton is back(for now)
Twins baseball is fun again
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Absolutely - the challenge to cite to specific examples is a good one. I think there's a widespread perception Manfred "hates the game." Googling "Rob Manfred hates baseball" turns up op-eds in legit publications:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/10/22/rob-manfred-world-series-commissioner/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/10/22/rob-manfred-world-series-commissioner/)
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/aug/05/does-mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-really-hate-baseball (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/aug/05/does-mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-really-hate-baseball)
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-sure-seems-to-hate-baseball/1xa2erynjjago1u7t4601jkig8
(https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-sure-seems-to-hate-baseball/1xa2erynjjago1u7t4601jkig8)
But the evidence for that dramatic a claim is all pretty iffy. I think the more correct way to be a little melodramatic about it is that Manfred hates baseball players, which speaks to the labor toxicity in baseball right now, and explains why a lot of purists don't trust a Manfred administration to make significant changes to the game, even if they are necessary or in the game's long term best interest.
Perception is truth.
Bud Selig was a very dishonest person. He promised George Bush he would be the next commissioner and then undercut cut him and grabbed the job for himself. He orchestrated collusion. He ignored steroids cuz the home run epidemic made lots of money for MLB. Yet, no one ever said Selig hated baseball. No one ever said Bart Giammatti hated baseball.
People say it about Manfred based on things he has done. I think your last paragraph is closest to the truth.
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Buxton is back(for now)
Twins baseball is fun again
(https://media.tenor.com/images/b44e2a6bede7bf7c2352a18985fbca37/tenor.gif)
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/chicago-cubs-javier-baez-lost-track-of-outs-benched-after-tough-baserunning-mistake-cleveland-indians-032242735.html
Javy magically turned 2 outs into 3.
And that really sucks about Buxton.
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This just in, DeGrom is still really good, even without the sticky stuff.
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/chicago-cubs-javier-baez-lost-track-of-outs-benched-after-tough-baserunning-mistake-cleveland-indians-032242735.html
Javy magically turned 2 outs into 3.
So for those scoring at home:
Best Slider In Baseball History: Javy Baez.
Best Tagger In Baseball History: Javy Baez.
Best At Creating Double Plays For Opponents In Baseball History: Javy Baez.
Seriously, I'm impressed that Ross benched him. And I liked the way Ross discussed it with the media afterward. He didn't do a rip-job; indeed, the opposite, he complimented Baez up and down, saying how important Baez was to the team.
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(https://media.tenor.com/images/b44e2a6bede7bf7c2352a18985fbca37/tenor.gif)
It's funny in the sense of how recurring and predictable it is. But man it just sucks for him and baseball fans(Twins already suck at least).
The dude is just unlucky.
He gets your normal "injury prone" type injuries where his muscles pull and tighten with everyday competition
He get's the "playing hard" injuries by running into walls or making elite diving catches.
When he tries to play "smarter" and have the "long run" in mind over 1 out. He still finds a way to get beamed in bad spots.
Its just crazy. Baseball deserves to see this dude in his prime. Kinda hoping the Twins pull a Minny sports classic move and trade him. Will gurantee that he has 5 years of good health.
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A friend just sent me this 1952 scouting report on an 18-year-old shortstop named Henry Aaron. Pretty cool.
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/203762192_10220590949427778_5514274677736770098_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=XRrz3izZaLQAX-GCQGj&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=00741530301f5e2c20ef9ff5b391b39b&oe=60D7353A)
The 2 things that stood out to me:
POWER - fair
NATIONALITY - Negro
Yes, that famous Nation of Negro.
The report says that Aaron didn't go to high school, but that's not true. He went to Mobile Central HS for 2 years and later a private HS, but they didn't have baseball teams so he played semipro and Negro League ball.
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A friend just sent me this 1952 scouting report on an 18-year-old shortstop named Henry Aaron. Pretty cool.
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/203762192_10220590949427778_5514274677736770098_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=XRrz3izZaLQAX-GCQGj&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=00741530301f5e2c20ef9ff5b391b39b&oe=60D7353A)
The 2 things that stood out to me:
That is cool.
Really specific scouting reports they had back-in-the-day. Running is “fast,” hitting is “good,” and strengths are “ability.”
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His power was "fair".
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A friend just sent me this 1952 scouting report on an 18-year-old shortstop named Henry Aaron. Pretty cool.
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/203762192_10220590949427778_5514274677736770098_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=XRrz3izZaLQAX-GCQGj&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=00741530301f5e2c20ef9ff5b391b39b&oe=60D7353A)
The 2 things that stood out to me:
POWER - fair
NATIONALITY - Negro
Yes, that famous Nation of Negro.
The report says that Aaron didn't go to high school, but that's not true. He went to Mobile Central HS for 2 years and later a private HS, but they didn't have baseball teams so he played semipro and Negro League ball.
Man. That's so cool. Power as fair. Awesome. I guess he had to grow into it a little bit, or maybe that scout maybe missed something... Love it.
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Joe Girardi is still a jerk.
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I think Kershaw's got a point, that if you ask for an inspection and it comes up clean, you should lose your challenge. Otherwise there's going to be a lot of coincidences about the timing of these requests.
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I think Kershaw's got a point, that if you ask for an inspection and it comes up clean, you should lose your challenge. Otherwise there's going to be a lot of coincidences about the timing of these requests.
Yeah, remember when baseball was concerned about speeding up the game? Talk about bringing a game to a standstill.
I don't blame managers for doing what Girardi did last night. Scherzer was dominating his team. It was a good try to break up his rhythm. It's gamesmanship, it's delay of game, it's an attempt to shift momentum ... and MLB is not only allowing it but encouraging it.
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I think Kershaw's got a point, that if you ask for an inspection and it comes up clean, you should lose your challenge. Otherwise there's going to be a lot of coincidences about the timing of these requests.
Yeah like Bauer said in his interview with FOX a week or so ago. They came up with this new plan of action way too quickly. Its going to keep being chaos if something isn't changed.
Scherzer got checked like 3 innings in a row simply cause he was mowings down Phillies and they didnt like it.
And the games are not gonna get any shorter.
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I'm old enough to remember when speeding up pace of play was the most important initiative to appeal to the next generation of fans.
That said, if all pitchers and opposing managers will handle it like Max did, I'm here for it.
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I'm old enough to remember when speeding up pace of play was the most important initiative to appeal to the next generation of fans.
That said, if all pitchers and opposing managers will handle it like Max did, I'm here for it.
It was more entertaining than the game. But MLB doesn't care.
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Since the Cubs and Brewers haven't played in a while, I've never even heard of Patrick Wisdom. Dude goes in the first round to the Cards, he hits 4 career home runs prior to this year, and then he hits 9 dingers in his first 10 games when he gets called up as a 29 year old?
Things that make you say "Hmm..."
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Yeah like Bauer said in his interview with FOX a week or so ago. They came up with this new plan of action way too quickly. Its going to keep being chaos if something isn't changed.
Scherzer got checked like 3 innings in a row simply cause he was mowings down Phillies and they didnt like it.
And the games are not gonna get any shorter.
I'm 100% here for Mad Max going a round with Joe Girardi on the warning track. You want smoke Joe, you got it.
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Since the Cubs and Brewers haven't played in a while, I've never even heard of Patrick Wisdom. Dude goes in the first round to the Cards, he hits 4 career home runs prior to this year, and then he hits 9 dingers in his first 10 games when he gets called up as a 29 year old?
Things that make you say "Hmm..."
Maybe he's using Wonderboy!
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Man. That's so cool. Power as fair. Awesome. I guess he had to grow into it a little bit, or maybe that scout maybe missed something... Love it.
BLM would say “Hmmmm”….
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BLM would say “Hmmmm”….
Hank Aaron led the MLB in home runs at the age of 23. He hit .314 with 27 home runs and 106 RBIs his second season, at 21 years old.
Fairly comparable to a guy who didn't hit his fifth home run in his career until he was 29 years old. Good call. Hmm.
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Hank Aaron led the MLB in home runs at the age of 23. He hit .314 with 27 home runs and 106 RBIs his second season, at 21 years old.
Fairly comparable to a guy who didn't hit his fifth home run in his career until he was 29 years old. Good call. Hmm.
So you're accusing Hank of hitting the steroids early?
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So you're accusing Hank of hitting the steroids early?
According to wades, steroids is a magical drug that makes people go from China leagues to the top of the mlb.
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The sixth no-hitter of the season came on May 19. History was made when Corey Kluber blanked the Rangers.
The seventh no-hitter of the season came on June 24, when Zach Davies and three relievers stymied the Dodgers. This ties the modern-day record for no-no’s in a season, (with roughly 54% of the games remaining).
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There were 4 in a 2-week stretch from May 5-19 and it was looking like there’d be 20 no-hitters this season.
But it took another 5 week for one to be thrown. And this one had a bazillion walks.
I’m not concluding or even suggesting anything. It’ll be interesting to see how many there’ll be when the season is complete.
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There were 4 in a 2-week stretch from May 5-19 and it was looking like there’d be 20 no-hitters this season.
But it took another 5 week for one to be thrown. And this one had a bazillion walks.
I’m not concluding or even suggesting anything. It’ll be interesting to see how many there’ll be when the season is complete.
I think you are and most of us are thinking the same thing.
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I think you are and most of us are thinking the same thing.
That the no-hitters of ‘21 are historical? Magical? Special?
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That the no-hitters of ‘21 are historical? Magical? Special?
Yeaaah... that's the ticket.
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With Escobar not in the Dbacks lineup today, and the inferno around the trade rumors, I’m guessing he’ll be on his way to Chicago by this evening.
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With Escobar not in the Dbacks lineup today, and the inferno around the trade rumors, I’m guessing he’ll be on his way to Chicago by this evening.
Yeah hes off to Chicago
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With Escobar not in the Dbacks lineup today, and the inferno around the trade rumors, I’m guessing he’ll be on his way to Chicago by this evening.
Yeah, I expect him to be with Chicago tomorrow, but Brewers have been talking to D’backs as well.
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Big series for the Crew coming up against the Cubs. They’ve played them well so far. Getting a series win would be nice to stretch the lead to 4.
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Big series for the Crew coming up against the Cubs. They’ve played them well so far. Getting a series win would be nice to stretch the lead to 4.
Definitely. Pitching matchups lineup well.
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One down. Two to go.
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That escalated quickly.
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When do the Cubs trade Bryant? Now till ASG or at the deadline?
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RIP Cubs 2021 season
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Crazy. I was happy with the 2/3 when we got down 7-0. Brewers offense turned it around with a few touchdown drives.
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When do the Cubs trade Bryant?
The 7th inning stretch today.
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That escalated quickly.
and again.
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Not often both teams have a 7 run lead in the same game.
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Don’t understand why the Cubs aren’t throwing out Sogard against the brewers every game.
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Not often both teams have a 7 run lead in the same game.
In fact, it was the first time in the modern era that it happened before the 5th inning.
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Second time since 1900 that a team has scored 7+ runs in 1st and inning and lost.
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The trade for Willy Adames really seems to be just what the doctor ordered. The Crew has been a completely different team once he arrived. It has allowed Luis Urias to settle in to a more comfortable position as the #1 utility guy (admittedly playing for Shaw right now). Moreover, the Nashville call-ups like Taylor and Peterson have been outstanding contributors. Even Hiura seems to be getting it going and Wong will be back in the line-up tomorrow in his customary lead off spot. We haven't even mentioned Yeli who has yet to hit his stride.
And how about the pen that Stearns has assembled, even in these past 3-4 weeks? All in support of a dynamite starting 5, three of which are electric special. Best Brewer pitching ever? Perhaps.
This team is good. Really good. Be nice if it could be a special season.
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So, it turns out that Trevor Bauer might not be such a nice guy.
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The trade for Willy Adames really seems to be just what the doctor ordered. The Crew has been a completely different team once he arrived. It has allowed Luis Urias to settle in to a more comfortable position as the #1 utility guy (admittedly playing for Shaw right now). Moreover, the Nashville call-ups like Taylor and Peterson have been outstanding contributors. Even Hiura seems to be getting it going and Wong will be back in the line-up tomorrow in his customary lead off spot. We haven't even mentioned Yeli who has yet to hit his stride.
And how about the pen that Stearns has assembled, even in these past 3-4 weeks? All in support of a dynamite starting 5, three of which are electric special. Best Brewer pitching ever? Perhaps.
This team is good. Really good. Be nice if it could be a special season.
I'm no historian, but in my lifetime it's absolutely without question the deepest staff the team's ever had. Without doing any research I'd be willing to put it against deepest staffs of any club in recent memory. Going Woody-Burnes-Peralta 1-2-3 isn't quite Randy Johnson-ConcentrationCampEnthusiast Schilling 1-2, but the addition of the third guy makes it arguably equivalent... add in the revolving door of contributors in the pen with Mariano Hader closing the door? That's a killer staff.
The Brewers were assembled this year to test conventional baseball wisdom that Pitching is what Matters. As early as Spring Training I could see that they rolled the dice that the out-getters + the Gold Glovers behind them would be enough to make up for a lackluster offense, and in the early going it looked like that bet wasn't going to pan out. But baseball is nothing if not large sample sizes, and as the season goes on they're proving the conventional wisdom exists for a reason.
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Eric Sogard had more appearances on the mound in the series than Josh Hader.
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I'm no historian, but in my lifetime it's absolutely without question the deepest staff the team's ever had. Without doing any research I'd be willing to put it against deepest staffs of any club in recent memory. Going Woody-Burnes-Peralta 1-2-3 isn't quite Randy Johnson-ConcentrationCampEnthusiast Schilling 1-2, but the addition of the third guy makes it arguably equivalent... add in the revolving door of contributors in the pen with Mariano Hader closing the door? That's a killer staff.
The Brewers were assembled this year to test conventional baseball wisdom that Pitching is what Matters. As early as Spring Training I could see that they rolled the dice that the out-getters + the Gold Glovers behind them would be enough to make up for a lackluster offense, and in the early going it looked like that bet wasn't going to pan out. But baseball is nothing if not large sample sizes, and as the season goes on they're proving the conventional wisdom exists for a reason.
An argument can be made the ‘92 pitching staff was the best they ever had prior to this season. They weren’t the strikeout pitchers today’s guys are but the game was played different in ‘92. The ‘92 bullpen lacked a Hader but for that season, they did a pretty good job getting outs for the most part.
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Eric Sogard had more appearances on the mound in the series than Josh Hader.
No bueno.
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An argument can be made the ‘92 pitching staff was the best they ever had prior to this season. They weren’t the strikeout pitchers today’s guys are but the game was played different in ‘92. The ‘92 bullpen lacked a Hader but for that season, they did a pretty good job getting outs for the most part.
The Brewers are positioned for a deep run in the post-season. They have the best top 3 starters in either league at the current time.
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The Brewers are positioned for a deep run in the post-season. They have the best top 3 starters in either league at the current time.
And I'd like to applaud Couns for not overusing them. It's only early July and the Crew just played game #81. Sooooo much baseball to go.
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Maybe this was known already, but I noticed the Sunday July 25th Sox/Brewers game is the ESPN Sunday Night game. Considering Yankees/Red Sox is that weekend as well, I think that’s awesome.
(I’m aware Yankees/Red Sox will be the TBS game that day)
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Maybe this was known already, but I noticed the Sunday July 25th Sox/Brewers game is the ESPN Sunday Night game. Considering Yankees/Red Sox is that weekend as well, I think that’s awesome.
(I’m aware Yankees/Red Sox will be the TBS game that day)
It just got announced a couple hours ago Dish.
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And I'd like to applaud Couns for not overusing them. It's only early July and the Crew just played game #81. Sooooo much baseball to go.
Took a quick look…woodruff in top 10 for innings pitched. Big drop off until you get to Freddy in the 40s and Corbin in the 50s. Definitely not being overused.
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Took a quick look…woodruff in top 10 for innings pitched. Big drop off until you get to Freddy in the 40s and Corbin in the 50s. Definitely not being overused.
They plan to go with the 6 man rotation until the All-Star for sure. Anderson is expected back for the Tuesday game. That'll allow them to finish up with Woody on Sunday the 11th.
Oh, and a sidebar, Craig Counsell is the best manager in Brewer history. It's not even close.
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Non-White Sox fans may not care too much, but Jake Burger being called up by the team today is a great story. Suffered two Achilles tears, missed three years of organized baseball and spent part of last year with a collegiate summer league team, but has worked his way to the show.
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Non-White Sox fans may not care too much, but Jake Burger being called up by the team today is a great story. Suffered two Achilles tears, missed three years of organized baseball and spent part of last year with a collegiate summer league team, but has worked his way to the show.
Jake is such a good dude too, super nice guy, and a couple years ago he played catch with my son. He’s been open about his mental health struggles, and as Pak said, he’s overcome so much to get to this point.
Hope he’s here to stay for a long and successful career.
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Non-White Sox fans may not care too much, but Jake Burger being called up by the team today is a great story. Suffered two Achilles tears, missed three years of organized baseball and spent part of last year with a collegiate summer league team, but has worked his way to the show.
That's a really cool story. Love to see it.
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Any y'all ever eaten a Jake's burger, hey?
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Any y'all ever eaten a Jake's burger, hey?
It’s been awhile, but yes. Pretty fookin’ good
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Will the Brewers ever lose? The Cubs are clearly done even though there are 80 games left. I don't follow baseball much but what's scary is the Brewers aren't really hitting well.
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I think the Brewers offense may be benefitting more from the crackdown on sticky substances than it is hurting their pitchers.
Granted, they’ve had starts like this before, and it hasn’t ended well. Although, I don’t think they’ve ever had this level of pitching.
If their starting pitching stays healthy and near this level, it can cover up a lot of bad nights hitting. They’ve done a great job of keeping them in games for the offense to squeak a few runs past and then get to Hader.
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1. DeGrom has given up more runs in 3 starts without sticky stuff than he did the rest of the season. He suddenly just looks like the best pitcher in baseball now instead of the best of all time.
2. Ohtani is a beast.
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1. DeGrom has given up more runs in 3 starts without sticky stuff than he did the rest of the season. He suddenly just looks like the best pitcher in baseball now instead of the best of all time.
His first start post ruling he went 5 innings with 1 hit and no runs.0
All 3 runs in the Atlanta game came in the first inning, 2 on a HR, against a team that hits a ton. After the first, he threw 6 innings of 2 hit ball, striking out another 13 batters.
Outside of that first inning in Atlanta, since the sticky ban, he’s given up 6 hits and 2 runs in 17 innings while striking out 24. But by all means continue with your weird ax to grind against him even though the best pitchers of all time have bad innings. Or that he gave up 3 runs to a crummy Rockies team earlier in the year when he using his supposed magic ball
Oh and the double and the HR the Braves hit off him were on near 100MPH fastballs perfectly placed on the edge of the zone. Not sliders he suddenly can’t spin anymore
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Will the Brewers ever lose? The Cubs are clearly done even though there are 80 games left. I don't follow baseball much but what's scary is the Brewers aren't really hitting well.
The Brewers are hitting well. They are averaging 7.3 runs per game during this winning streak. Offense is now near the middle of the league in runs per game. I believe they are close to the top if the league in runs per game since the trade for Adames.
I do think MIL is a legitimately very good team with a chance to win it all. Here's to hoping my 40/1 world series bet cashes. ;)
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The Brewers are hitting well. They are averaging 7.3 runs per game during this winning streak. Offense is now near the middle of the league in runs per game. I believe they are close to the top if the league in runs per game since the trade for Adames.
I do think MIL is a legitimately very good team with a chance to win it all. Here's to hoping my 40/1 world series bet cashes. ;)
I'm not going to go back and do the research but when the Crew scores 4 or more they pretty much are guaranteed victory.
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Oh and the double and the HR the Braves hit off him were on near 100MPH fastballs perfectly placed on the edge of the zone. Not sliders he suddenly can’t spin anymore
Spin rate is just as important on fastballs as it is on sliders. Fastballs without the extra spin end up where you expect them to.
Gravity and the downward angle means fastballs drop a certain amount. Increased spin causes fastballs to “rise”. That is why pitchers throw to the top of the zone now. (Of course, it is impossible for pitches to rise - it is an illusion - but the level of drop is decreased with increased spin.)
But it is a common fallacy that spin rate only affects breaking pitches.
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The Brewers are hitting well. They are averaging 7.3 runs per game during this winning streak. Offense is now near the middle of the league in runs per game. I believe they are close to the top if the league in runs per game since the trade for Adames.
I was just looking at their batting stats. They're #22 but I guess they're starting to come along. Do people expect them to try to add a big bat?
I do think MIL is a legitimately very good team with a chance to win it all. Here's to hoping my 40/1 world series bet cashes. ;)
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To add to my earlier comments:
Spin is a gravity fighter. The more a four-seam fastball spins with its true backspin direction, the more it fights gravity. A hitter learns from tens of thousands of pitches where he expects the ball to be based on its speed and trajectory. But a super-spinning fastball—say, 2,700 rpms and above—fools the hitter because it doesn’t sink as much as those thousands of fastballs he has cataloged in his head. That’s why you see hitters swinging underneath high-spinning fastballs.
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22 in what? They are 14th in runs per game.
https://www.teamrankings.com/mlb/stat/runs-per-game
They are 4th in the past 30 days
https://www.mlb.com/stats/team/runs?timeframe=-29
They could try to add a bat but I don't see them making a blockbuster deal. Maybe for a solid hitting utility guy. The only position where they really need an upgrade is 1B assuming Hiura doesn't keep hitting. Maybe CF but I think they are willing to sacrifice hitting for defense there.
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22 in what? They are 14th in runs per game.
https://www.teamrankings.com/mlb/stat/runs-per-game
They are 4th in the past 30 days
https://www.mlb.com/stats/team/runs?timeframe=-29
They could try to add a bat but I don't see them making a blockbuster deal. Maybe for a solid hitting utility guy. The only position where they really need an upgrade is 1B assuming Hiura doesn't keep hitting. Maybe CF but I think they are willing to sacrifice hitting for defense there.
Oh...I dunno. I was looking at mlb.com. Maybe team batting average? Sorry.
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1. DeGrom has given up more runs in 3 starts without sticky stuff than he did the rest of the season. He suddenly just looks like the best pitcher in baseball now instead of the best of all time.
2. Ohtani is a beast.
deGroms last 2 starts
He gave up 2 runs on 3 hits in 6 innings
He gave up 3 runs(thanks to a fluke triple) in the first inning. Then proceeded to retire 18 guys in a row to finish his outing with 14 Ks.
You are a moron
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Since the Cubs and Brewers haven't played in a while, I've never even heard of Patrick Wisdom. Dude goes in the first round to the Cards, he hits 4 career home runs prior to this year, and then he hits 9 dingers in his first 10 games when he gets called up as a 29 year old?
Things that make you say "Hmm..."
I think Adames accidentally picked up Wisdom's shipment, hey?
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22 in what? They are 14th in runs per game.
https://www.teamrankings.com/mlb/stat/runs-per-game
They are 4th in the past 30 days
https://www.mlb.com/stats/team/runs?timeframe=-29
They could try to add a bat but I don't see them making a blockbuster deal. Maybe for a solid hitting utility guy. The only position where they really need an upgrade is 1B assuming Hiura doesn't keep hitting. Maybe CF but I think they are willing to sacrifice hitting for defense there.
I agree with this. Think they’ll look to add bullpen depth (as will much of baseball, I suppose).
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deGroms last 2 starts
He gave up 2 runs on 3 hits in 6 innings
He gave up 3 runs(thanks to a fluke triple) in the first inning. Then proceeded to retire 18 guys in a row to finish his outing with 14 Ks.
You are a moron
1. I stated a fact about his last 3 games.
2. I stated a fact he was the best pitcher in baseball.
3. I stated a fact that he is not the greatest pitcher of all time.
Whether I am a moron or not is an open question. But I was 100% correct in my statements.
4. I’ll give you one more fact. His spin rate is down in his last 3 starts.
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Oh...I dunno. I was looking at mlb.com. Maybe team batting average? Sorry.
No worries and certainly no need to apologize.
The Brewers are last in MLB in team batting average at .219. So that's definitely an area they could/need to improve.
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I think Adames accidentally picked up Wisdom's shipment, hey?
I chuckled.
I think Adames is really benefitting from being away from Tropicana. Supposedly he couldn’t see the ball really well. His stats now match his road splits I think.
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1. I stated a fact about his last 3 games.
2. I stated a fact he was the best pitcher in baseball.
3. I stated a fact that he is not the greatest pitcher of all time.
Whether I am a moron or not is an open question. But I was 100% correct in my statements.
4. I’ll give you one more fact. His spin rate is down in his last 3 starts.
Uhh no. You did not state that he is the best pitcher in baseball or state he isnt the best pitcher of all time
"DeGrom has given up more runs in 3 starts without sticky stuff than he did the rest of the season. He suddenly just looks like the best pitcher in baseball now instead of the best of all time." You said what he looks like, never gave an actual indictation.
Also, regardless of your opinion that is not a face. Subjective would be the term.
deGrom in 3 starts since the crack down 2.50 era. deGroms career era.......2.50.
Like I said, you are moron. And this is appearing to be factual.
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Uhh no. You did not state that he is the best pitcher in baseball or state he isnt the best pitcher of all time
"DeGrom has given up more runs in 3 starts without sticky stuff than he did the rest of the season. He suddenly just looks like the best pitcher in baseball now instead of the best of all time." You said what he looks like, never gave an actual indictation.
Also, regardless of your opinion that is not a face. Subjective would be the term.
deGrom in 3 starts since the crack down 2.50 era. deGroms career era.......2.50.
Like I said, you are moron. And this is appearing to be factual.
This is a wee bit misleading. A 2.50 ERA is outstanding, of course, but not where he's been the past four seasons. From 2018 to the start of the crackdown. his ERA was 1.90.
It's also worth noting that his K/9 the past three starts is 7.0, after being 10.7 since 2018.
That could be a three-game anomaly, or it could be because of the crackdown. But either way, it's not inaccurate to say his last three starts aren't reflective of what we've come to expect from deGrom is recent seasons.
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I chuckled.
I think Adames is really benefitting from being away from Tropicana. Supposedly he couldn’t see the ball really well. His stats now match his road splits I think.
True for all Tampa Bay players in MKE. The center field "optics" really signal what the opposing pitchers are throwing.
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Uhh no. You did not state that he is the best pitcher in baseball or state he isnt the best pitcher of all time
"DeGrom has given up more runs in 3 starts without sticky stuff than he did the rest of the season. He suddenly just looks like the best pitcher in baseball now instead of the best of all time." You said what he looks like, never gave an actual indictation.
Also, regardless of your opinion that is not a face. Subjective would be the term.
deGrom in 3 starts since the crack down 2.50 era. deGroms career era.......2.50.
Like I said, you are moron. And this is appearing to be factual.
Have your mom read to you what I have posted.
If facts don’t interest you, just call me names.
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This is a wee bit misleading. A 2.50 ERA is outstanding, of course, but not where he's been the past four seasons. From 2018 to the start of the crackdown. his ERA was 1.90.
It's also worth noting that his K/9 the past three starts is 7.0, after being 10.7 since 2018.
That could be a three-game anomaly, or it could be because of the crackdown. But either way, it's not inaccurate to say his last three starts aren't reflective of what we've come to expect from deGrom is recent seasons.
If you remove the 1 inning from the Atlanta game, his ERA in the last 3 games is around 1.05. Granted that’s not how ERA works, but it’s still more likely a single flukey/bad inning than an immediate regression.
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If Houser and Lauer can keep it up, it’s a #donedeal.
I’m semi-confident in Houser. Mostly non- confident in Lauer.
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No worries and certainly no need to apologize.
The Brewers are last in MLB in team batting average at .219. So that's definitely an area they could/need to improve.
Well...apparently our banter hasn't impacted their performance today. Meanwhile the Cubs are an absolute dumpster fire.
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The most impressive piece of the soon to be 11 game winning streak is it hasn’t even consisted of Yelich going nuclear. He only has 2 HRs and 5 RBIs batting .235. He has walked 11 times and scored 12 times though.
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The most impressive piece of the soon to be 11 game winning streak is it hasn’t even consisted of Yelich going nuclear. He only has 2 HRs and 5 RBIs batting .235. He has walked 11 times and scored 12 times though.
Pitching gives this team a pretty high floor. Contributions from Hiura and JBJ rounding out the batting order have been big. Not a lot of nail bitters during this win streak.
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Pitching gives this team a pretty high floor. Contributions from Hiura and JBJ rounding out the batting order have been big. Not a lot of nail bitters during this win streak.
Playoffs are all about your top 3 starters and your closer. Brewers top 3 starters and closer are as good as there is in baseball, maybe the best. That's why I feel like they have a legit shot at a world series win this year.
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Playoffs are all about your top 3 starters and your closer. Brewers top 3 starters and closer are as good as there is in baseball, maybe the best. That's why I feel like they have a legit shot at a world series win this year.
That’s possibly true if the World Series started today. I don’t think any of them have thrown close to the innings they’d need to in order to win the World Series. Counsell is doing a good job managing innings with the 6 man rotation. If they can keep a sizable lead, that would be huge so they could skip some starts.
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Playoffs are all about your top 3 starters and your closer. Brewers top 3 starters and closer are as good as there is in baseball, maybe the best. That's why I feel like they have a legit shot at a world series win this year.
Agreed, and not to mention two excellent setup guys in Williams and Boxberger, with closer stuff.
Since acquiring Adames, 30-10. What a roll they’re on. Lots can and does change in baseball after July 4 though. Long, long way to go yet.
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That’s possibly true if the World Series started today. I don’t think any of them have thrown close to the innings they’d need to in order to win the World Series. Counsell is doing a good job managing innings with the 6 man rotation. If they can keep a sizable lead, that would be huge so they could skip some starts.
Counsell is just an excellent manager. Stearns and his front office do a nice job giving him talent, but he just knows which buttons to push, especially in September. It’s no accident 3 consecutive postseasons under his watch, with a 4th and 2nd division title looking more and more likely. He’s a gem.
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Counsell is just an excellent manager. Stearns and his front office do a nice job giving him talent, but he just knows which buttons to push, especially in September. It’s no accident 3 consecutive postseasons under his watch, with a 4th and 2nd division title looking more and more likely. He’s a gem.
Counsell doesn't get enough credit. Maybe it's his 'aw shucks' nature. Best Brewer manager ever.
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That’s possibly true if the World Series started today. I don’t think any of them have thrown close to the innings they’d need to in order to win the World Series. Counsell is doing a good job managing innings with the 6 man rotation. If they can keep a sizable lead, that would be huge so they could skip some starts.
Well today is all we have to go by. Every other team and pitcher is at today as well.
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If you remove the 1 inning from the Atlanta game, his ERA in the last 3 games is around 1.05. Granted that’s not how ERA works, but it’s still more likely a single flukey/bad inning than an immediate regression.
Well, like you said, that's not how ERA works. Everyone would have a better ERA if you removed their worst innings.
And that still doesn't explain the reduced spin and K rates.
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Counsell doesn't get enough credit. Maybe it's his 'aw shucks' nature. Best Brewer manager ever.
Agree, especially last statement. No one else really close.
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Well, like you said, that's not how ERA works. Everyone would have a better ERA if you removed their worst innings.
And that still doesn't explain the reduced spin and K rates.
Cole struggled again today - assuming his spin rate is down significantly.
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Fire Counsell
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On June 24, four Cubs pitchers combined to no-hit the Dodgers. The Cubbies were 42-33, tied atop the NL Central with the Brewers, who were idle that day.
Since then, the Cubs are 0-9, the Brewers are 9-1, and Milwaukee has opened a 7-game lead over second-place Cincinnati. The Cubs are 8 1/2 games back.
In a week and a half, the Cubs went from division leaders to 7 games out of the second wild-card spot.
Absolutely crazy. Let the salary-dumping fire sale begin on the North Side.
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On June 24, four Cubs pitchers combined to no-hit the Dodgers. The Cubbies were 42-33, tied atop the NL Central with the Brewers, who were idle that day.
Since then, the Cubs are 0-9, the Brewers are 9-1, and Milwaukee has opened a 7-game lead over second-place Cincinnati. The Cubs are 8 1/2 games back.
In a week and a half, the Cubs went from division leaders to 7 games out of the second wild-card spot.
Absolutely crazy. Let the salary-dumping fire sale begin on the North Side.
Dodgers haven’t lost a game since that no-hitter.
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Dodgers haven’t lost a game since that no-hitter.
Yeah, I guess getting no-hit by a crud team woke em up!
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On June 24, four Cubs pitchers combined to no-hit the Dodgers. The Cubbies were 42-33, tied atop the NL Central with the Brewers, who were idle that day.
Since then, the Cubs are 0-9, the Brewers are 9-1, and Milwaukee has opened a 7-game lead over second-place Cincinnati. The Cubs are 8 1/2 games back.
In a week and a half, the Cubs went from division leaders to 7 games out of the second wild-card spot.
Absolutely crazy. Let the salary-dumping fire sale begin on the North Side.
The Cubs should obviously sell, but teams just don’t pay for rentals anymore. Rizzo’s playing hurt, Bryant’s fallen off a cliff after early MVP talk, and Baez has been dreadful. The guy they could get the most for right now is Kimbrel, who I believe has a club option for next year.
The Cubs were far and away the best team in baseball for the entirety of their 2016 championship run, and with their young core, looked like they’d be the best team in the NL for the next half decade. They haven’t been back to the World Series since. That’s a big disappointment, any way you slice it.
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Have your mom read to you what I have posted.
If facts don’t interest you, just call me names.
The next time you give a "fact" will be the first time.
You are a blockhead. I gave the facts.
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This is a wee bit misleading. A 2.50 ERA is outstanding, of course, but not where he's been the past four seasons. From 2018 to the start of the crackdown. his ERA was 1.90.
It's also worth noting that his K/9 the past three starts is 7.0, after being 10.7 since 2018.
That could be a three-game anomaly, or it could be because of the crackdown. But either way, it's not inaccurate to say his last three starts aren't reflective of what we've come to expect from deGrom is recent seasons.
He has 25 Ks in his last 3 starts(18 innings).
Im no math guru but that is a not a 7 K per 9 innings rate.
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The next time you give a "fact" will be the first time.
You are a blockhead. I gave the facts.
The 4 facts I gave:
1. I stated a fact about his last 3 games.
2. I stated a fact he was the best pitcher in baseball.
3. I stated a fact that he is not the greatest pitcher of all time.
4. I’ll give you one more fact. His spin rate is down in his last 3 starts.
Give me one shred of evidence to dispute any of these.
Please do so as a grownup.
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The 4 facts I gave:
1. I stated a fact about his last 3 games.
2. I stated a fact he was the best pitcher in baseball.
3. I stated a fact that he is not the greatest pitcher of all time.
4. I’ll give you one more fact. His spin rate is down in his last 3 starts.
Give me one shred of evidence to dispute any of these.
Please do so as a grownup.
While I definitely agree with #2 and any objective person would as well, neither of those two statements are facts.
I however did give you facts.
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While I definitely agree with #2 and any objective person would as well, neither of those two statements are facts.
I however did give you facts.
You are a disbeliever in numbers?
I accept that and will move on.
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The Cubs should obviously sell, but teams just don’t pay for rentals anymore. Rizzo’s playing hurt, Bryant’s fallen off a cliff after early MVP talk, and Baez has been dreadful. The guy they could get the most for right now is Kimbrel, who I believe has a club option for next year.
The Cubs were far and away the best team in baseball for the entirety of their 2016 championship run, and with their young core, looked like they’d be the best team in the NL for the next half decade. They haven’t been back to the World Series since. That’s a big disappointment, any way you slice it.
I would think Baez would have significant value as a short-term rental. He is a low cost (remainder of this season's $10M) guy, and a GM would have little trouble convincing himself that a motivated Baez could return to form in August, September and October.
Agree about the others, though the Cubs probably still could find trading partners, especially if they're willing to help pay some of their salaries.
And obviously agree about the franchise falling off a cliff. Another example of why every title, and every realistic shot at a title, should never be taken for granted.
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I’d rent Rizzo and Bryant for the rest of the year.
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I’d rent Rizzo and Bryant for the rest of the year.
Yeah but for whom?
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Cubs aren't tradin' those suckers to another Central Div. team, hey?
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I would think Baez would have significant value as a short-term rental. He is a low cost (remainder of this season's $10M) guy, and a GM would have little trouble convincing himself that a motivated Baez could return to form in August, September and October.
Agree about the others, though the Cubs probably still could find trading partners, especially if they're willing to help pay some of their salaries.
And obviously agree about the franchise falling off a cliff. Another example of why every title, and every realistic shot at a title, should never be taken for granted.
He just ain't worth much. About as close to an average MLB hitter for his career as you can get.
The trades for Lindor, Carasco, Arenado, Darvish & Josh Bell included a return including the grand total of 1 Top 100 prospects. And those were guys you were getting for an entire year.
Teams just are no longer willing to part with top prospects like they used to even a couple years ago (Eloy & Cease for Quintana)
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He just ain't worth much. About as close to an average MLB hitter for his career as you can get.
The trades for Lindor, Carasco, Arenado, Darvish & Josh Bell included a return including the grand total of 1 Top 100 prospects. And those were guys you were getting for an entire year.
Teams just are no longer willing to part with top prospects like they used to even a couple years ago (Eloy & Cease for Quintana)
Yep. Its just not worth giving up control over a young, top prospect to roll the dice on a three month rental.
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He just ain't worth much. About as close to an average MLB hitter for his career as you can get.
The trades for Lindor, Carasco, Arenado, Darvish & Josh Bell included a return including the grand total of 1 Top 100 prospects. And those were guys you were getting for an entire year.
Teams just are no longer willing to part with top prospects like they used to even a couple years ago (Eloy & Cease for Quintana)
You very well could be right. We’ll know soon enough if the Cubs will be able to move any of these guys.
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Grandal out 4-6 weeks with a torn tendon.
White Sox hitters are cursed.
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You can’t let Arrieta start another game.
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If you’re season is going to end the first week of July, might as well go down in total flames.
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deGrom gave up 2 solo bombs today.
Otherwise was an economical 7 innings 10 Ks on 85 pitches and 2 other singles
CaNt PiTcH wItHoUt ThE sTiCkY
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This Twins team has been dead for a while, but man do they look like they’ve quit.
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This Twins team has been dead for a while, but man do they look like they’ve quit.
Tough not to when someone in the decision making process allows them to continue to trot out Andrelton Simmons everyday.
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deGrom gave up 2 solo bombs today.
Otherwise was an economical 7 innings 10 Ks on 85 pitches and 2 other singles
CaNt PiTcH wItHoUt ThE sTiCkY
ERA's over 1 now. What a loser.
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I’ve said it once and I’ll say it a million times, Fire Counsell
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deGrom gave up 2 solo bombs today.
Otherwise was an economical 7 innings 10 Ks on 85 pitches and 2 other singles
CaNt PiTcH wItHoUt ThE sTiCkY
Did anyone say DeGrom can't pitch without the sticky?
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Did anyone say DeGrom can't pitch without the sticky?
I said his spin rate dropped once the ban was put in place. But hogans makes things up to argue with.
But he was definitely the 2nd best pitcher on the field today.
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I said his spin rate dropped once the ban was put in place. But hogans makes things up to argue with.
But he was definitely the 2nd best pitcher on the field today.
1. DeGrom has given up more runs in 3 starts without sticky stuff than he did the rest of the season. He suddenly just looks like the best pitcher in baseball now instead of the best of all time.
That was your first comment. Lets not lie.
And he was the best pitcher on the field today. Another one of your awful "facts"
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I said his spin rate dropped once the ban was put in place. But hogans makes things up to argue with.
But he was definitely the 2nd best pitcher on the field today.
No. I like Corbin. He's not deGrom. He's not even Woodruff.
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Did anyone say DeGrom can't pitch without the sticky?
1. DeGrom has given up more runs in 3 starts without sticky stuff than he did the rest of the season. He suddenly just looks like the best pitcher in baseball now instead of the best of all time.
So, no?
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So, no?
So, yes.
He said that deGrom is now suddenly "not the best pitcher of all time"(if we were even saying he was) due to 3 starts "without sticky stuff". Its a similar terrible implication as the the statement that "deGrom was definitely not the best pitcher today".
It was quickly pointed out that it was inflated by 1 bad inning(shocker it happens). Then he went on to call subjective opinions facts for about 5 more comments.
His whip without the sticky stuff still sits at .64. Remove the 1 bad inning(really 1 bad pitch) and hes directly at his season average.
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So, yes.
He said that deGrom is now suddenly "not the best pitcher of all time"(if we were even saying he was) due to 3 starts "without sticky stuff". Its a similar terrible implication as the the statement that "deGrom was definitely not the best pitcher today".
It was quickly pointed out that it was inflated by 1 bad inning(shocker it happens). Then he went on to call subjective opinions facts for about 5 more comments.
His whip without the sticky stuff still sits at .64. Remove the 1 bad inning(really 1 bad pitch) and hes directly at his season average.
So, no?
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So, no?
So, yes
Didn't think we'd have to state it again
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So, yes
Didn't think we'd have to state it again
In fairness, when I asked if anyone had said that DeGrom couldn't pitch without the sticky stuff, I wasn't intending to include strawmen
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No. I like Corbin. He's not deGrom. He's not even Woodruff.
I have repeatedly said that deGrom is the best pitcher in the game today. Repeatedly.
So by definition, Corbin is not. But corbin was the better pitcher in THIS game.
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I have repeatedly said that deGrom is the best pitcher in the game today. Repeatedly.
So by definition, Corbin is not. But corbin was the better pitcher in THIS game.
No he wasn't.
You also said he was "definitely better" which is outrageous.
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deGrom: 7 IP, 4 H, 2 R, 10K
Burnes: 5.2 IP, 6 H, 1 R, 8 K
Unless the only thing that counts is that deGrom gave up 2 runs to Burnes' 1, this looks pretty even to me, with deGrom's superior H/IP and K totals offsetting Burnes allowing 1 fewer run.
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deGrom: 7 IP, 4 H, 2 R, 10K
Burnes: 5.2 IP, 6 H, 1 R, 8 K
Unless the only thing that counts is that deGrom gave up 2 runs to Burnes' 1, this looks pretty even to me, with deGrom's superior H/IP and K totals offsetting Burnes allowing 1 fewer run.
deGrom also had the QS. Burnes didn't qualify.
Burnes left with guys on base and needed to rely on his pen(they failed).
deGrom had the much better WHIP, more innings, better K rate.
deGrom had a Bill James game score of 71. Burnes was 61.
Yeah, if in baseball you are strictly going to say the better game always goes to the guy who allows less runs, then ok(not advisable but we will award it). But to say Burnes was "definitely" better shows Jockey just once again does not have a clue.
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deGrom also had the QS. Burnes didn't qualify.
Burnes left with guys on base and needed to rely on his pen(they failed).
deGrom had the much better WHIP, more innings, better K rate.
deGrom had a Bill James game score of 71. Burnes was 61.
Yeah, if in baseball you are strictly going to say the better game always goes to the guy who allows less runs, then ok(not advisable but we will award it). But to say Burnes was "definitely" better shows Jockey just once again does not have a clue.
Aside from the insult at the end being unnecessary, I agree with your analysis.
One could argue Burnes allowing 1 fewer run gives him a slight edge. But as I've already said, I'd rate it even. And as you said, other stats would give deGrom the edge.
I think one thing we can all agree on -- even Jockey, if he'll remove emotion from his thoughts -- is that deGrom was absolutely not "definitely the 2nd best pitcher" in G1 yesterday.
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Low key big series for the Crew. Just the mentality of a possible 10 game lead at the break would be huge. Long way to go (key phrase here), but a series win here, and a series win in Cincy right after the break and you almost feel like you could coast to the finish and save some arms. Rest of the division certainly isn't looking like it's gonna put up a fight right now.
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deGrom: 7 IP, 4 H, 2 R, 10K
Burnes: 5.2 IP, 6 H, 1 R, 8 K
Unless the only thing that counts is that deGrom gave up 2 runs to Burnes' 1, this looks pretty even to me, with deGrom's superior H/IP and K totals offsetting Burnes allowing 1 fewer run.
When two teams step on the field, each team has one purpose - WIN the game. So the basic question is "which pitcher did more to help his team win?"
The answer in this game is Burnes.
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When two teams step on the field, each team has one purpose - WIN the game. So the basic question is "which pitcher did more to help his team win?"
The answer in this game is Burnes.
No he didn't. He pitched less innings(not even a QS). Need to have two inherited runners stranded. PUt more strain on his bullpen who did ultimately blow the game.
Your logic is simply which guy gave up less runs. Which is fine if you want to go that route, its just not sound logic.
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When two teams step on the field, each team has one purpose - WIN the game. So the basic question is "which pitcher did more to help his team win?"
The answer in this game is Burnes.
Weird hill to die on man.
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Cubbies wearing their rec league uniforms today.
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Cubbies wearing their rec league uniforms today.
When in Rome, hey?
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The YouTube TV broadcast is pretty rough.
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The YouTube TV broadcast is pretty rough.
Pleasac is bad in The Show. Worse on YouTube.
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Home plate umpires have been awful the first two games of this series.
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4 Brewers pitchers in the All Star game with Peralta replacing Woodruff since Woody pitches Sunday night. I thought Peralta should have made it outright over Marquez.
Kudos to the 3 starters, and to this development staff. 2 years ago, I thought Peralta was destined to be a long reliever and wasn't sure Burnes could stick in the rotation.
Baseball is cool.
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Leave it to the Cardinals to give us Cubs fans something to cheer for.
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At times we older posters who were MU fans in the 70s get push back for living in those times still. At this age I have the perspective over that period to present.
Wisdom has taught me...Truth is ....most of your life's most profound sports moments are formed in your youth. I guess our hearts and minds were cleaner slates, we had total sports focus and sports fandom was something I could share with my adults early on. When we opine those moments were better.... its because they were better to us than current play that will never reach us as deep in memory.
Example: I saw this article today of an MLB all star game I watched on our new color TV, and I remember like it was yesterday. Every play, pitch and homer. Even as it occurred I remember thinking ....this is really great. And yes it was objectively ...a great memory.
Home runs by:
Johnny Bench tape measure in CF (1),
Hank Aaron (1),
Roberto Clemente (1)
Reggie Jackson tape measure ...hit the light box on the roof of Tiger stadium 500 + (1),
Frank Robinson (1), and
Harmon Killebrew, as Twins kid who went to 65 series, Harmon was my hero (1)
To Wit:
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31769224/all-your-baseball-cards-came-life-night-50-years-ago-22-hall-famers-played-all-star-game-ages
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7 NL players have opted out this year and been replaced.
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Haven't watched an all star game in nearly 40 years. In any sport.
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These athletes have too much on the line to do the kinds of things Rose did to Fosse, and I think that's progress.
If you're a fan of a team with a chance to win something this year, do you really want your ace pitcher working several innings in an exhibition game? Heck, I wouldn't want my ace to throw even one exhibition pitch.
And how many sluggers have taken part in HR Derby only to stink in the second half of the season or even to suffer some kind of injury? It's silly.
Now I know MLB has to sell itself, and I know it's basically a reality TV show at this point and they need viewers, but I'm with tower here. I doubt I'll watch a single pitch.
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MLB All-Star games used to be different. Interleague schedules have diluted a lot of the novelty, but I will still watch.
It’s a damn shame deGrom won’t be facing Ohtani in the first inning Tuesday’s game. It would’ve been worth watching.
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All star games are relics of the past.
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I think the players would rather have the honor and 4 days off.
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At times we older posters who were MU fans in the 70s get push back for living in those times still. At this age I have the perspective over that period to present.
Wisdom has taught me...Truth is ....most of your life's most profound sports moments are formed in your youth. I guess our hearts and minds were cleaner slates, we had total sports focus and sports fandom was something I could share with my adults early on. When we opine those moments were better.... its because they were better to us than current play that will never reach us as deep in memory.
Example: I saw this article today of an MLB all star game I watched on our new color TV, and I remember like it was yesterday. Every play, pitch and homer. Even as it occurred I remember thinking ....this is really great. And yes it was objectively ...a great memory.
Home runs by:
Johnny Bench tape measure in CF (1),
Hank Aaron (1),
Roberto Clemente (1)
Reggie Jackson tape measure ...hit the light box on the roof of Tiger stadium 500 + (1),
Frank Robinson (1), and
Harmon Killebrew, as Twins kid who went to 65 series, Harmon was my hero (1)
To Wit:
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31769224/all-your-baseball-cards-came-life-night-50-years-ago-22-hall-famers-played-all-star-game-ages
Great post, Hou. There were more HoF type players because it was the golden age of baseball. Only 24 teams. A couple years earlier there were only 20.
That’s 500 major leaguers compared to 780 now. Also a much larger pool of minor leaguers to develop guys.
And a way, way larger pool of kids who wanted to be baseball players when they grew up. I’m sure you knew a lot of them. I don’t remember any kids wanting to grow up to be football or basketball players. We played those sports when it was too cold to play baseball.
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MLB All-Star games used to be different. Interleague schedules have diluted a lot of the novelty, but I will still watch.
It’s a damn shame deGrom won’t be facing Ohtani in the first inning Tuesday’s game. It would’ve been worth watching.
+1.
The All Star baseball game used to be a big deal for the players and the fans. I don’t think I missed even one pitch of an All Star game until I was well into my 30s. Now I’ll watch but not particularly closely.
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+1.
The All Star baseball game used to be a big deal for the players and the fans. I don’t think I missed even one pitch of an All Star game until I was well into my 30s. Now I’ll watch but not particularly closely.
There’s a lot of reasons the ASG has lost its luster. Many have been mentioned already. Free agency changed dynamics as well as guys were often NL or AL “guys”. Though the money wasn’t great, it was still a bonus. I doubt these guys even know how much they make if they win the game versus losing.
The ASG was a big deal for a lot of people. We had a major storm blow through the Milwaukee area in the early-to-mid 80’s the night before the ASG and it knocked out the power at my grandfathers house and he absolutely would not miss the game and came over to our house to make sure he didn’t. I can’t imagine that today
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The MLB All Star Game is still awesome.
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Garrit Coles throws 129 pitches, the last one a 99 mph fastball. Complete game, 1-0 shutout. Reminded me of a game I saw in St Louis in 1968.
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Garrit Coles throws 129 pitches, the last one a 99 mph fastball. Complete game, 1-0 shutout. Reminded me of a game I saw in St Louis in 1968.
Ah yes ...that 1968 memory of Mickey Lolich is shared by many. lol
Maybe it was that other guy you recall...the grumpy one
.(http://)
Of MLB's many tweeks, the raised mound profoundly favored pitchers. As the Astrodome was a pitchers park any way, I enjoyed the result.
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Nice work by a maid in a hotel near Coors Field:
https://twitter.com/benverlander/status/1414083657770233868?s=21
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/crime/four-arrested-at-maven-hotel-face-weapon-charges-police-feared-las-vegas-style-shooting-during-all-star-game
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Nice work by a maid in a hotel near Coors Field:
https://twitter.com/benverlander/status/1414083657770233868?s=21
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/crime/four-arrested-at-maven-hotel-face-weapon-charges-police-feared-las-vegas-style-shooting-during-all-star-game
I guess that, in addition to a "good man with a gun," another way to stop a "bad man with a gun" is hire more maids.
Hey ... just imagine how much safer we'd all be if we armed all maids!
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Not a great week for Hader and the Brewers.
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All star games are relics of the past.
I still like the MLB All-Star Game, and only the MLB All-Star Game. It is the only one where the participants still go all out to win on offense and defense. I guess I'm an old-timer, but I find the HR Derby the most boring thing ever and it seems to be surpassing the actual game in popularity.
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I guess I'm an old-timer, but I find the HR Derby the most boring thing ever and it seems to be surpassing the actual game in popularity.
I guess I'm also an old-timer, because I agree with you.
I mean, after the 3rd of 100 "bombs," they all look the same. I'll get all the info I need -- and plenty I don't need -- from Sportscenter later.
I only hope that Ohtani doesn't get hurt or doesn't have his swing messed up.
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How about those Redlegs?
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I’m guessing interleague has reduced excitement for the MLB All Star game. Before then, this was the only time to see some matchups.
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I guess that, in addition to a "good man with a gun," another way to stop a "bad man with a gun" is hire more maids.
Hey ... just imagine how much safer we'd all be if we armed all maids!
I’m sure these guys were good guys with guns. Just being alert in case bad guys with guns showed up.
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I’m guessing interleague has reduced excitement for the MLB All Star game. Before then, this was the only time to see some matchups.
I think it’s more a proliferation of regular season games on television because all all star games have dropped in viewing numbers.
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Darn shame about Acuna. Hell of a player. I hope he fully recovers for next season.
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Pretty much sums up what a lot (maybe even most?) of today's MLB players feel about the ASG ...
Major League Baseball also said Dodgers outfielder Mookie Betts was injured and won’t participate -- though Betts played in each of the team's games over the weekend against Arizona, including going 5-for-7 with 5 RBIs in the last two games of the series.
“An All-Star Game is definitely an honor, especially being voted in by your peers, so I definitely don’t want to discount that honor. But I do understand that I do have some nagging things going on,” Betts said Saturday.
Asked what was nagging him, he said: “Just the same stuff. There is just no break in baseball.”
“This is the only time I can get a break of more than a day. I just want to use it to the best I can. I would love to be in an All-Star Game, but I think the goal is to win a World Series and this break will definitely help me to help us get to that point,” he said.
It's hard to blame Betts or any of the guys who choose not to play. They get paid handsomely to play baseball for their teams, and Betts is paid handsomely to help the Dodgers win championships.
Now, one could argue that part of Betts' job is to grow the game, and playing in the ASG is a pretty small thing to ask him to do toward that goal. That would be fair. But I have no problem with these guys opting out.
As a kid, I wanted to see my favorite team's players in the ASG. I'd even be pissed if they didn't play or the manager gave them just a brief appearance. But if I were a grown-up Dodgers fan who valued championships, I'd not only be perfectly fine with Betts' decision, I'd applaud it.
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I just don't think the ASG helps to "grow the game" at all. It's being watched by people who are baseball fans already. MLB's problems run deeper than non-fans knowing who Mookie Betts is.
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I just don't think the ASG helps to "grow the game" at all. It's being watched by people who are baseball fans already. MLB's problems run deeper than non-fans knowing who Mookie Betts is.
Yea, as you’ve stated in the past, I think the issue is people are more fans of their team than MLB. I consider myself a more than casual fan, but I can’t remember the last time I tuned into a non-Brewers game. There’s 162 of those, I don’t have time or interest to watch anyone else.
Whereas, I’d be more likely to tune into a random NBA game. For sure an NFL game (largely due to fantasy football). A large part because there’s more hype around a Lakers/Nets game or get a chance to see some young stars.
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Yea, as you’ve stated in the past, I think the issue is people are more fans of their team than MLB. I consider myself a more than casual fan, but I can’t remember the last time I tuned into a non-Brewers game. There’s 162 of those, I don’t have time or interest to watch anyone else.
Whereas, I’d be more likely to tune into a random NBA game. For sure an NFL game (largely due to fantasy football). A large part because there’s more hype around a Lakers/Nets game or get a chance to see some young stars.
In football and particularly basketball, you are pretty much guaranteed to see the star player do something spectacular or excellent even if he has a bad night. In baseball, Mike Trout could easily go 0-4 or 1-4 with a groundball single and a walk and have nothing interesting hit to him the whole game. So even if you do watch a random game with a superstar, you still may not see him do much. Baseball is about the daily grind, and you appreciate that a lot more watching your own team almost every day than watching random games of different teams.
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In football and particularly basketball, you are pretty much guaranteed to see the star player do something spectacular or excellent even if he has a bad night. In baseball, Mike Trout could easily go 0-4 or 1-4 with a groundball single and a walk and have nothing interesting hit to him the whole game. So even if you do watch a random game with a superstar, you still may not see him do much. Baseball is about the daily grind, and you appreciate that a lot more watching your own team almost every day than watching random games of different teams.
Spot on. The long grind is part of what I love about baseball. Time for so many twists and turns.
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Darn shame about Acuna. Hell of a player. I hope he fully recovers for next season.
Yeah. I only see him on those rare occasions the Braves play the Red Sox, but he was so impressive in the few games I saw him play. An all around talent. Hate it when great young players get injured (or anybody not on the Yankees, for that matter).
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MLB finally doing something right:
Ohtani will start for the AL and bat leadoff. And if he and the manager want him to keep hitting, he can be the DH even after a reliever comes in for him.
He’s the face of baseball now, and this is a TV show. I think I might even tune in to see him!
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What a fun first round of the derby. Still easily the best All Star event in sports.
Figured Soto would give Ohtani a run. Guy can hit oppo liners out of the yard.
Perez ran into a buzzsaw in round 1.
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With some guys making it seem like they need to be dragged kicking and screaming to the All-Star Game, Alonso’s enthusiasm about the Derby is making it genuinely fun to watch.
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Pete Alonso has been paid more by the MLB for his two HR derby wins than the Mets have paid him salary.
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I watched the Derby last night with my 9 year-old son and we had a riot. Too many commercials, but it ended at the perfect time.
I downloaded the MLB AR app and turned the coffee table into a stadium. I’m not really tech savvy and couldn’t even describe it well, but it was fun for 3-4 batters before it became very repetitive.
I sh!t on MLB for not doing enough to market itself. Last night was an exception.
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Vlad Jr didnt hit that ball off Burnes too far
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Other than the Vladdy bomb, this game has been an utter snooze
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Other than the Vladdy bomb, this game has been an utter snooze
Getting some runs on the board now.
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MLB finally doing something right:
Ohtani will start for the AL and bat leadoff. And if he and the manager want him to keep hitting, he can be the DH even after a reliever comes in for him.
He’s the face of baseball now, and this is a TV show. I think I might even tune in to see him!
They've really lucked into him, but they need to market the hell out of him for younger fans. They should never stop talking about how much of a unicorn he is.
Just a shame the Angels have been so middling despite having a transcendent player on their roster for the past decade.
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Not to beat a dead horse here, but there is no shortage of young talent to "market the hell out of" to younger fans. But they have to overcome some issues to make that happen.
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Not to beat a dead horse here, but there is no shortage of young talent to "market the hell out of" to younger fans. But they have to overcome some issues to make that happen.
Yea, well, when you have people within baseball who object to the actions of some of the amazing young talent based on stodgy nonsense, that doesn't help.
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Yea, well, when you have people within baseball who object to the actions of some of the amazing young talent based on stodgy nonsense, that doesn't help.
Agreed.
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Not MLB related, but at my son’s 11U travel tournament game tonight, the opposing pitcher threw 97 pitches in 3.2 innings. Not a criticism of the kid, but it wasn’t like he was de Grom or circa ‘99 Pedro (he walked 5, gave up 4).
Felt borderline child abuse. It was a tournament so there’s no pitch count rule. Our team caps it at 60 pitches (completion of the AB).
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Yôu see that from time to time. The highest I have seen is 120 out of a 12 year old.
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I threw around 100 in 4 innings when I was around 11. Had multiple 7-8 pitch ABs in each inning with tons of fouls, 4-5 walks, scattered hits. I had a ton of base runners but managed to get out of jams and had great fielding behind me, hence why I got to our 4 inning limit at the time. My arm was sore but I survived. Obviously it was memorable ;D
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I threw around 100 in 4 innings when I was around 11. Had multiple 7-8 pitch ABs in each inning with tons of fouls, 4-5 walks, scattered hits. I had a ton of base runners but managed to get out of jams and had great fielding behind me, hence why I got to our 4 inning limit at the time. My arm was sore but I survived. Obviously it was memorable ;D
Could you dunk tho ;)
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Not MLB related, but at my son’s 11U travel tournament game tonight, the opposing pitcher threw 97 pitches in 3.2 innings. Not a criticism of the kid, but it wasn’t like he was de Grom or circa ‘99 Pedro (he walked 5, gave up 4).
Felt borderline child abuse. It was a tournament so there’s no pitch count rule. Our team caps it at 60 pitches (completion of the AB).
That's a horrible program and coach. If you need a pitch count, look at USA baseball's pitch smart numbers. Max per day of 85 for 12 year olds. You don't leave it up to the kid, be the adult.
We actually lost track of our ace last weekend. He ended up throwing 92. Has had a sore arm all way. Will never tell us he's tired, he wants to pitch. Luckily his dad is our pitching coach, so we manage his throwing during the week, and dad makes him stretch and ice.
Nothing worse than seeing a kid pitch 3 innings (our max usually) and then throwing agian in the very next game. Will probably start on Sunday too. Either develop more pitching or find easier tournaments to play in so other kids can pitch. Those kids won't be able to wipe their ass by age 17.
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This tournament we were in we (and the other team) both played 8pm quarterfinal games last night. They beat us in the early evening game tonight in the semi’s, so that kid was going to play one more game tonight. After he got pulled, he played third the rest of the game (which isn’t great on an arm). No idea if he played third in the title game, but seemed like malpractice to keep an 11 year old out there like that.
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Very disappointed hearing these stories about abuse of kid pitchers.
Most of the leagues I ump the pitch-count rules are very strict and enforced. Sometimes it seems like the kids are being coddled, but at that age I much prefer that. Plenty of time for heavier counts later in their development.
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https://twitter.com/AdamMcCalvy/status/1415023229043974152
"That's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off"
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c'est la vie, Joc.
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https://twitter.com/AdamMcCalvy/status/1415023229043974152
"That's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off"
I'd call that a waste of a pick, but he's won the Connor Taylor award the last 3 weeks. So he's got that going for him, which is nice.
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Eh, potential decent upside with their last pick. No big deal if it doesn't pan out.
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I'd call that a waste of a pick, but he's won the Connor Taylor award the last 3 weeks. So he's got that going for him, which is nice.
Serious question; how many 20th round picks have actually made the show? If all that pick does is generate a few clickbait articles, I'd call that a job well done.
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Very disappointed hearing these stories about abuse of kid pitchers.
Most of the leagues I ump the pitch-count rules are very strict and enforced. Sometimes it seems like the kids are being coddled, but at that age I much prefer that. Plenty of time for heavier counts later in their development.
Yeah, I'm sorry but I don't really see any reason to ride a kid's arm. Get a team W? Uh, congrats, they're 11. Virtually 0 upside, limitless downside. No dang sense at all.
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Serious question; how many 20th round picks have actually made the show? If all that pick does is generate a few clickbait articles, I'd call that a job well done.
Beginning with the 3rd round, less than half of MLB draft picks make the major leagues statistically, and the chances steadily decline to the point where if you are not a top 10 round pick the numbers making it are far leas than 10%.
It’s interesting to see which high school players decide to go pro or college. It’s also interesting to see which college eligible players go pro vs going back to school.
If a high school player is not drafted in say the first 2-3 rounds, often times they will stick with their college commitment. If a 21 year old or Junior draft eligible player gets drafted, more of those players will leave and go pro early in the middle rounds. But even then it’s mixed.
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Serious question; how many 20th round picks have actually made the show? If all that pick does is generate a few clickbait articles, I'd call that a job well done.
https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/how-many-mlb-draftees-make-it-to-the-majors/
This article breaks down the %s for rounds 1-10 and then gives a blanket % for rounds 11-20. It looks like somewhere between 5-10% of 11th-20th rounders make the show. I would imagine the 20th rounders are the smallest contributors to that percentage.
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Thanks for the responses/data. Seeing as the entire second half of the draft seems to account for less than 10%, I don't really feel bad about having a "novelty" pick in the 20th round.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the actual % would be even lower, as it doesn't take into account international players that didn't undergo the draft process.
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Thanks for the responses/data. Seeing as the entire second half of the draft seems to account for less than 10%, I don't really feel bad about having a "novelty" pick in the 20th round.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the actual % would be even lower, as it doesn't take into account international players that didn't undergo the draft process.
And of course there are always exceptions. Luke Voigt was drafted in the 32nd round out of high school, then 22nd round out of college. No one thought he would be such a story in NYC the past few years. Cross town Kumar Rocker getting over-slot $6 Million in Queens has roughly a 3 in 4 chance to make the majors.
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I'd call that a waste of a pick, but he's won the Connor Taylor award the last 3 weeks. So he's got that going for him, which is nice.
Maybe he is the next Mike Piazza!
Piazza was taken by the Los Angeles Dodgers with the 1,390th pick in the 62nd Round of 1988's MLB Draft. He is the lowest-drafted Hall of Famer.
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Maybe he is the next Mike Piazza!
Piazza was taken by the Los Angeles Dodgers with the 1,390th pick in the 62nd Round of 1988's MLB Draft. He is the lowest-drafted Hall of Famer.
He should get Piazza's steroid guy's number.
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Serious question; how many 20th round picks have actually made the show? If all that pick does is generate a few clickbait articles, I'd call that a job well done.
Ryne Sanburg was a 20th round pick. Lots of HOFamers taken after the 10th round. I think Nolan Ryan was a 12th rounder. I’d rather pick a real player than go for click bait.
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Ryne Sanburg was a 20th round pick. Lots of HOFamers taken after the 10th round. I think Nolan Ryan was a 12th rounder. I’d rather pick a real player than go for click bait.
Ehh, still not that concerned. If a player from the 20th round of this draft becomes a HOFer, or even makes the show, I guess you can say I told you so.
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Ehh, still not that concerned. If a player from the 20th round of this draft becomes a HOFer, or even makes the show, I guess you can say I told you so.
Conversely, this guy may be decent in a year or two.
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Conversely, this guy may be decent in a year or two.
Another reason why I'm not all that concerned, I trust the front office. If this guy makes it, I guess both Lenny and I can say "I told you so", because he'd be right that a guy from the 20th round can make the show, but if he does end up making the show, he'd hardly be "a waste of a pick". It's also only one pick from one year's draft. I don't know enough about prospects or development to guess if he'll pan out, or even know what level he's currently playing at, but again, I trust the front office.
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the Brewers drafted Mendez because they think he had more potential than the other players available in the 20th round and not because a few articles would be written about him being old.
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Maybe he is the next Mike Piazza!
Piazza was taken by the Los Angeles Dodgers with the 1,390th pick in the 62nd Round of 1988's MLB Draft. He is the lowest-drafted Hall of Famer.
Also as only a favor to his dad
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Going back to the discussion of kids pitching. I came from the says of 6 inning limit per week, no pitch counts were had.
Outside of little league we probably played some type of baseball almost every day in the back yard. I probably threw a few hundred pitches a week... of course my brothers and I never once threw a curve ball. None of us ever had arm issues from pitching.
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Going back to the discussion of kids pitching. I came from the says of 6 inning limit per week, no pitch counts were had.
Outside of little league we probably played some type of baseball almost every day in the back yard. I probably threw a few hundred pitches a week... of course my brothers and I never once threw a curve ball. None of us ever had arm issues from pitching.
How could you play catch every day and not try a curveball? As I kid I threw what MLB pitchers threw. Curveball, knuckle ball, screwball, many different kinds of changeups.
Some I threw OK. Some were junk.
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How could you play catch every day and not try a curveball? As I kid I threw what MLB pitchers threw. Curveball, knuckle ball, screwball, many different kinds of changeups.
Some I threw OK. Some were junk.
With knowledge of our day, it was less about pitch count and more about the motion of the arm with things such as curveball that destroyed arms.
So we never did them. Plenty of sinkers and knuckleballs though
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MLB replay is such a joke.
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Shooting outside Nationals Park during the game.
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Shooting outside Nationals Park during the game.
Probably just a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun. ::)
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Probably just a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun. ::)
More likely a bad guy with an illegal gun.
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More likely a bad guy with an illegal gun.
Thanks, Lenny, for taking my comment the way I meant it. That’s a rare thing here.
You had the perfect response.
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Thanks, Lenny, for taking my comment the way I meant it. That’s a rare thing here.
You had the perfect response.
Lenny with the facts. 💪💪💪
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Thanks, Lenny, for taking my comment the way I meant it. That’s a rare thing here.
You had the perfect response.
You’d think with all the guns out there, bad guys with illegal guns would be afraid of good guys with guns. What can you do, though? Thoughts and prayers usually work for families of the dead
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You’d think with all the guns out there, bad guys with illegal guns would be afraid of good guys with guns. What can you do, though? Thoughts and prayers usually work for families of the dead
Why would they want anything more, Unk?
Law changes? They won't end every single gun crime, so they would be useless!
Unlike drunk-driving laws and laws against rape, which have stopped every single death-by-drunkard accident and every single rape since enacted.
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You’d think with all the guns out there, bad guys with illegal guns would be afraid of good guys with guns. What can you do, though? Thoughts and prayers usually work for families of the dead
When we live in Utopia, all people will willingly turn in their guns. The folks involved in that gun fight that killed that little girl in Washington don’t live in Utopia and they’ll laugh at (and be empowered by) any law that takes guns from the good guys in their neighborhood. But who gives a sh!t about the good guys in the bad neighborhoods, right? The people who would leave them even more defenseless? We’ll, not your neighborhood, not your problem.
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So as for actual baseball, after dropping 3 of 4 right before the break to give the Reds a glimmer of hope, the Crew go ahead and sweep them in Cincy. Pirates are obviously tanking, Cubs seems prime for a fire sale, and despite having arguably the most talent in the division, it seems every time I check the standing, the Cards are +/- 3 games of .500. As long as the Reds don't play ridiculously over their heads the rest of the way, it should be pretty straightforward to a division title, and a matchup with the winner of the East. I've seen them blow leads too many time to count, so nothing is done until it's mathematically done, but you should be counting on October baseball.
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When we live in Utopia, all people will willingly turn in their guns. The folks involved in that gun fight that killed that little girl in Washington don’t live in Utopia and they’ll laugh at (and be empowered by) any law that takes guns from the good guys in their neighborhood. But who gives a sh!t about the good guys in the bad neighborhoods, right? The people who would leave them even more defenseless? We’ll, not your neighborhood, not your problem.
Unfortunately, "good guys" are far more likely to use to use their guns to harm themselves or members of their household than they are to protect them.
And maybe if we did more to keep guns away from "bad guys," the "good guys " wouldn't seek a false sense of a security by arming themselves.
But obviously this is all speculation. If only there were places on the planet with strict gun laws that could show whether something like that would work.
Anyhow, White Sox should have Eloy Jimenez and Luis Robert back in the lineup by mid-August, barring setbacks. Pretty much equivalent to adding a couple of all-star quality players at the deadline. If the rotation holds up, they're going to be tough to beat come October.
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Unfortunately, "good guys" are far more likely to use to use their guns to harm themselves or members of their household than they are to protect them.
And maybe if we did more to keep guns away from "bad guys," the "good guys " wouldn't seek a false sense of a security by arming themselves.
But obviously this is all speculation. If only there were places on the planet with strict gun laws that could show whether something like that would work.
Anyhow, White Sox should have Eloy Jimenez and Luis Robert back in the lineup by mid-August, barring setbacks. Pretty much equivalent to adding a couple of all-star quality players at the deadline. If the rotation holds up, they're going to be tough to beat come October.
Pak
Agree with much of what you say, though I doubt very much that there were 3 million+ guns in circulation prior to the passage of strict gun law passage in any country where it has been effective. Getting the guns out of the hands of the good guys in the US would be difficult but generally doable. Getting the guns out of the hands of the bad guys would not be unless we have the stomach for the violence and suspension of civil liberties it would require. I don’t think we do.
Re our White Sox, I’m amazed how well they’ve performed given their injuries. Starting pitching trumps all, though, and our guys (especially Lynn and Rodin) have been both healthy and effective. And our almost 80 year old manager has pleasantly surprised. I hated the hire and his early season gaffes made me hate it even more. But he has done a good job with some makeshift lineups. I hope you’re right about October - it’s been too long since 2005.
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So as for actual baseball, after dropping 3 of 4 right before the break to give the Reds a glimmer of hope, the Crew go ahead and sweep them in Cincy. Pirates are obviously tanking, Cubs seems prime for a fire sale, and despite having arguably the most talent in the division, it seems every time I check the standing, the Cards are +/- 3 games of .500. As long as the Reds don't play ridiculously over their heads the rest of the way, it should be pretty straightforward to a division title, and a matchup with the winner of the East. I've seen them blow leads too many time to count, so nothing is done until it's mathematically done, but you should be counting on October baseball.
The Cardinals have used 10 different starting pitchers due to injuries. A few of their rotation starters haven’t thrown a single pitch this season. And another is now out for the season. They lead the league in walks per 9 innings. And, offense is their problem. (plate approach and player development) They do have a few very good relievers, including one of the game’s better closers, who wants to start next season.
It’s not a big surprise their first draft pick led the NCAA in fewest walks per 9, and, their 2nd pick is one of the draft’s best prep power hitters. They have a few promising milb position players but they aren’t ready to contribute this season.
They aren’t likely to be sellers because tanking for rebuilds isn’t an organizational philosophy (one losing season in over 20 years). It doesn’t sell well there. So, if anything they are more likely to add a little bit and try to make a wild card run.
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Kris Bryant removed from the Cubs game tonight in the 5th. Everyone assumes the worst. Deemed "hamstring fatigue". Cubs fans sigh a bit in relief...until he's still traded in the next week
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Kris Bryant removed from the Cubs game tonight in the 5th. Everyone assumes the worst. Deemed "hamstring fatigue". Cubs fans sigh a bit in relief...until he's still traded in the next week
That should be the last inning he plays in a Cubs uniform.
Even with that being said, they’re going to get 40 cents on the dollar for him and every GM knows it.
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That should be the last inning he plays in a Cubs uniform.
Even with that being said, they’re going to get 40 cents on the dollar for him and every GM knows it.
They will. Shame on Theo for not trading him two years ago.
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This is gonna be a hell of a series.
Pitching Probables for Sox/Brewers
Giolito/Peralta
Rodon/Burnes
Lynn/Woodruff
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Yermin Mercedes is retiring. At least he will wear a a white Sox hat on his HOf bust.
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Yermin Mercedes is retiring. At least he will wear a a white Sox hat on his HOf bust.
And with the second-most important "I'm back" in Chicago sports history, Yermin has ended his retirement.
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Cruz to the Rays is the first big deadline addition
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Cruz to the Rays is the first big deadline addition
Joc Pederson is very offended.
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I didn't realize Nelson Cruz was 41. Holy chit. I would have guess 5 years younger. And he's Dominican, so he really may be 43.
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The Cleveland Guardians.
Blah.
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The Cleveland Guardians.
Blah.
My reaction too. I get what they're going for to riff off the "defend the Land" thing - and there's a really cool idea in there somewhere. But "Guardians" is a bridge too far from that original idea and comes off as lame and generic.
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My reaction too. I get what they're going for to riff off the "defend the Land" thing - and there's a really cool idea in there somewhere. But "Guardians" is a bridge too far from that original idea and comes off as lame and generic.
Yea, my buddies from Cleveland kind of shrugged. Its not horrible, but it kind of comes across like a fictional team from a sports movie. But at the same time, they all said their wasn't a proposed name that was great so it was kind of pick something and get on with it
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When was the last time a fan base was legitimately excited for their team's name change?
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I still think Cleveland Spiders would have been the best.
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The Cleveland Guardians.
Blah.
The Cleveland Guardiolas would have been better
I like the Cleveland Hornets
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It's fine. Very few people would think it's a bad nickname if they were the Guardians all along.
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When was the last time a fan base was legitimately excited for their team's name change?
(http://photos1.blogger.com/img/224/4315/400/students504.jpg)
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My reaction too. I get what they're going for to riff off the "defend the Land" thing - and there's a really cool idea in there somewhere. But "Guardians" is a bridge too far from that original idea and comes off as lame and generic.
If you've ever been to Cleveland you know what one of the Guardians is.
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My reaction too. I get what they're going for to riff off the "defend the Land" thing - and there's a really cool idea in there somewhere. But "Guardians" is a bridge too far from that original idea and comes off as lame and generic.
Just realized this. I don't know if that was intentional but pretty funny.
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I am Groot.
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When was the last time a fan base was legitimately excited for their team's name change?
Uh ... The Marquette Gold ... hello!
FWIW (not much), Guardians is fine by me. I don't know what the other candidates were, but anything sounds like it doesn't belong when the previous name had been used for a century. I'm just glad they're no longer the Indians.
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I am Groot.
What I was thinking.
I'm guessing they were trying to keep as much of the letters from Indians as possible.
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When was the last time a fan base was legitimately excited for their team's name change?
Tennessee Oilers to Titans, for sure.
Maybe Washington Bullets to Wizards.
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ACME Packers to the GB Packers
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Colt .45s to Astros?
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My top 3 choices for Cleveland’s new nickname:
1.Warriors
2.Golden Avalanche
3.Hilltoppers
Guardians is lame but slightly better than Golden Eagles or Gold. Slightly.
Of all the names mentioned here I’d choose Spiders.
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Guardians has some sort of local connection from what I understand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_Memorial_Bridge
Anyway, Spiders would have been better.
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Guardians has some sort of local connection from what I understand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_Memorial_Bridge
Anyway, Spiders would have been better.
If Elon Musk ever gets a team on Mars, we can call them the Spiders.
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If Elon Musk ever gets a team on Mars, we can call them the Spiders.
Seems like a leech would be more fitting.
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Seems like a leech would be more fitting.
David Bowie.
Spiders from Mars.
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Guardians has some sort of local connection from what I understand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_Memorial_Bridge
Anyway, Spiders would have been better.
Yea, but its not a huge profound point of civic pride. It would be like Milwaukee renaming the Brewers after that orange starburst sculpture or whatever by the lake.
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Yea, but its not a huge profound point of civic pride. It would be like Milwaukee renaming the Brewers after that orange starburst sculpture or whatever by the lake.
Milwaukee Fonzes who says no
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My reaction too. I get what they're going for to riff off the "defend the Land" thing - and there's a really cool idea in there somewhere. But "Guardians" is a bridge too far from that original idea and comes off as lame and generic.
A local high school changed their mascot to Guardians, with the logo being an Owl. This was after the student voted for Evergreens but a teacher said that would cause trauma because Black people were hung from trees.
It seems like a team name in Any Given Sunday.
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Yea, but its not a huge profound point of civic pride. It would be like Milwaukee renaming the Brewers after that orange starburst sculpture or whatever by the lake.
I’ve been here 30 years and I couldn’t be happier that it is the Guardians. And I know a lot of people who feel the same. I know little about how people in Milwaukee feel about that sculpture, but I think you vastly underestimate the feelings many people have about the Guardians.
My comment to my brother on 12/13/20 when they announced they were changing the name: “Guardians. It has to be the Guardians.” I absolutely love it.
They could have gone safe, but they actually showed some creativity and picked something with a great Cleveland connection. And thank goodness they had the good sense to avoid anything related to the Rock Hall.
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I’ve been here 30 years and I couldn’t be happier that it is the Guardians. And I know a lot of people who feel the same. I know little about how people in Milwaukee feel about that sculpture, but I think you vastly underestimate the feelings how many people have about the Guardians.
My comment to my brother on 12/13/20 when they announced they were changing the name: “Guardians. It has to be the Guardians.” I absolutely love it.
They could have gone safe, but they actually showed some creativity and picked something with a great Cleveland connection. And thank goodness they had the good sense to avoid anything related to the Rock Hall.
Interesting. I wonder if its an age thing. As Ive mentioned I went to school in Ohio and for whatever reason, I had a disproportionate number of friends from Cleveland, compared to Cbus or Cincy.
I talked to various guys in the 27-35 range today. Solon, Strongsville, Elyria, Beachwood, Warren, Parma, and Chagrin Falls. A few are back in Cleveland, others in Chicago, NYC and Cbus. That was the sentiment I got from them, kind of ehh. And these are people with INTENSE Cleveland pride, live and die with Cleveland sports, and are very proud of where they are from. Grew up going to games and spending time in the city. Guardians just didn't ping with them at all.
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good friend of mine, my edward jones guy's son in law's dad is tom hamilton-they call him the bob ueker of cleveland baseball radio. looking forward to hearing "the rest of the story"
next up-the new york jets-bad bad bad for the environment eyn'a?
i might have gone for the cleveland rockers, but this is getting ridiculous
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good friend of mine, my edward jones guy's son in law's dad is tom hamilton-they call him the bob ueker of cleveland baseball radio. looking forward to hearing "the rest of the story"
next up-the new york jets-bad bad bad for the environment eyn'a?
i might have gone for the cleveland rockers, but this is getting ridiculous
change but race then “i” mite eat cereal who knows critical race theory bans whites
next up is chargers cuz hybrids r safe not like ball foot eyna know there places imo
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good friend of mine, my edward jones guy's son in law's dad is tom hamilton-they call him the bob ueker of cleveland baseball radio. looking forward to hearing "the rest of the story"
next up-the new york jets-bad bad bad for the environment eyn'a?
i might have gone for the cleveland rockers, but this is getting ridiculous
https://babylonbee.com/news/chicago-white-sox-finally-drop-offensive-white-from-name/
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(https://images2.imgbox.com/ad/4f/PvOvwviv_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/PvOvwviv)
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Interesting. I wonder if its an age thing. As Ive mentioned I went to school in Ohio and for whatever reason, I had a disproportionate number of friends from Cleveland, compared to Cbus or Cincy.
I talked to various guys in the 27-35 range today. Solon, Strongsville, Elyria, Beachwood, Warren, Parma, and Chagrin Falls. A few are back in Cleveland, others in Chicago, NYC and Cbus. That was the sentiment I got from them, kind of ehh. And these are people with INTENSE Cleveland pride, live and die with Cleveland sports, and are very proud of where they are from. Grew up going to games and spending time in the city. Guardians just didn't ping with them at all.
Maybe it’s an age thing, but my kids (18-24) seem to really like it.
Why I wanted it to be the Guardians:
- Above all, I wanted it to be something with a Cleveland connection
- The Guardians have always been among my favorite Cleveland landmarks - in other words, definite CLE connection
- The nearest guardian is about 500 yards from Progressive field - check out this great picture taken after last night’s game (https://twitter.com/indians/status/1418767336530661377?s=21)
- A Guardian is, in my opinion, something that embodies positive qualities for a mascot - strength, nobility, compassion
- The Guardians are pretty bad ass and lend themselves to some cool logos. I really hope they are not done developing the artwork. I think what they’ve got so far is fine, but I really hope they lean into the imagery more with some other logos.
- I really didn’t like any of the other options I was hearing. Rockers? Are you kidding me…naming the team after a defunct WNBA team? Didn’t like Naps or Spiders. Bulldogs? Might as well just be Lions or Eagles.
- It’s unique. I know it sounds strange to some people, but so did the Lakers at one time. And probably the Clippers, Dodgers, Jazz, Pelicans, Seventy-Sixers, 49ers, etc. We got used to those. You know what doesn’t sound strange for a mascot? Tigers, Bulldogs, Lions, and Golden Eagles. Ugh!
I was hoping for this name as soon as it became clear it was going to change. I’ll be buying merch as soon as it’s available.
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Should’ve been the Cleveland Midges.
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Should’ve been the Cleveland Midges.
Yeah, I had heard that too. Better than some, but still a pass from me.
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change but race then “i” mite eat cereal who knows critical race theory bans whites
next up is chargers cuz hybrids r safe not like ball foot eyna know there places imo
the fun part is that this makes more sense than anything roQQet has said in years.
But he's right that it is "getting ridiculous" that an entire race of people don't want to be considered mascots by white people. I mean, what next? Black people insisting that the New York Negroes change their team nickname? Jews claiming that the Houston Hooknoses have to go?
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As a Cubs fan, I am looking forward to the fact Sox and Brewers fans are going to hate each other by the end of the weekend.
For a few years it seems like those two fan bases got along because of their common enemy, (the way dogs and mice in cartoons get along because they both hate cats.)
But I remember when they HATED each other, and always knew they’d return to those feelings when they met again while both teams were good.
Brewers fans are Packer fans, and the Sox fans I know are not going to like them. And, if people from Wisconsin thought Cubs fans were FIBs, wait until they meet Sully/Tony who went to Rita/Mt. Carmel.
It’s got to be 115 degrees in Miller Park right now; there are going to be so many fights.
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As a Cubs fan, I am looking forward to the fact Sox and Brewers fans are going to hate each other by the end of the weekend.
For a few years it seems like those two fan bases got along because of their common enemy, (the way dogs and mice in cartoons get along because they both hate cats.)
But I remember when they HATED each other, and always knew they’d return to those feelings when they met again while both teams were good.
Brewers fans are Packer fans, and the Sox fans I know are not going to like them. And, if people from Wisconsin thought Cubs fans were FIBs, wait until they meet Sully/Tony who went to Rita/Mt. Carmel.
It’s got to be 115 degrees in Miller Park right now; there are going to be so many fights.
County Stadium bleachers were an ugly place during Sox-Brewers games back in the day. The problem with Cubs fans at Miller Park wasn’t the ones from Illinois but the locals who were Cubs fans growing up because of WGN who never went to Wrigley. There was a distinction. Sox fans were just mean from the get go regardless of where they were from. I loved them, tbh, but it was intense
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Maybe it’s an age thing, but my kids (18-24) seem to really like it.
Why I wanted it to be the Guardians:
- Above all, I wanted it to be something with a Cleveland connection
- The Guardians have always been among my favorite Cleveland landmarks - in other words, definite CLE connection
- The nearest guardian is about 500 yards from Progressive field - check out this great picture taken after last night’s game (https://twitter.com/indians/status/1418767336530661377?s=21)
- A Guardian is, in my opinion, something that embodies positive qualities for a mascot - strength, nobility, compassion
- The Guardians are pretty bad ass and lend themselves to some cool logos. I really hope they are not done developing the artwork. I think what they’ve got so far is fine, but I really hope they lean into the imagery more with some other logos.
- I really didn’t like any of the other options I was hearing. Rockers? Are you kidding me…naming the team after a defunct WNBA team? Didn’t like Naps or Spiders. Bulldogs? Might as well just be Lions or Eagles.
- It’s unique. I know it sounds strange to some people, but so did the Lakers at one time. And probably the Clippers, Dodgers, Jazz, Pelicans, Seventy-Sixers, 49ers, etc. We got used to those. You know what doesn’t sound strange for a mascot? Tigers, Bulldogs, Lions, and Golden Eagles. Ugh!
I was hoping for this name as soon as it became clear it was going to change. I’ll be buying merch as soon as it’s available.
I meant more in terms of not being super connected to or moved by the Guardian statues themselves. Like they are all aware of them, but they don't feel it to be QUINTESSENTIALLY Cleveland I guess.
None of them hate the name. A few think its pretty good, but they all were completely unmoved by the other names, so its not like they were annoyed Guardians usurped a better choice.
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When is it time to start really getting concerned about Yelich?
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County Stadium bleachers were an ugly place during Sox-Brewers games back in the day.
Tony Phillips wore a batting helmet while playing LF because Brewer fans were throwing sh!t at him.
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When is it time to start really getting concerned about Yelich?
September 10, 2019 when he fouled the ball off his knee.
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Having Larussa involved is guaranteed to add some spice to the series.
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When is it time to start really getting concerned about Yelich?
The year after he got his contract and the juice wore off!
I'm only half kidding.
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The year after he got his contract and the juice wore off!
I'm only half kidding.
About the juice wearing off?
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The year after he got his contract and the juice wore off!
I'm only half kidding.
O, just like Braunie den, hey?
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The year after he got his contract and the juice wore off!
I'm only half kidding.
what half? the accusation of him "juicing"? you got proof of that?
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what half? the accusation of him "juicing"? you got proof of that?
Juicing no. The centerfield videographer? Yes
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Juicing no. The centerfield videographer? Yes
Brewers got rid of their centerfield videographer. Except for Adames. He gets the videographer since he wasn’t here to use the videographer before.
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The year after he got his contract and the juice wore off!
I'm only half kidding.
His bad back has nothing to do with it. ::) ::)
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what half? the accusation of him "juicing"? you got proof of that?
None, it was a joke, you dumbass reactionary.
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Last night, Larissa showed what he thinks of his bullpen. He trusts Kopech and Hendriks. No one else.
Letting Kopech bat in a close game. Using Hendriks for 2 innings. He wanted to salvage 1 game in an important series and didn’t want any other relievers on the field.
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Last night, Larissa showed what he thinks of his bullpen. He trusts Kopech and Hendriks. No one else.
Letting Kopech bat in a close game. Using Hendriks for 2 innings. He wanted to salvage 1 game in an important series and didn’t want any other relievers on the field.
That, and TLR either forgot, and simply can not be bothered, to call for a double switch.
It’s not like Kopech “had” to lead off the 8th inning of a close game just because he was going to pitch more than 3 outs.
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Last night, Larissa showed what he thinks of his bullpen. He trusts Kopech and Hendriks. No one else.
Letting Kopech bat in a close game. Using Hendriks for 2 innings. He wanted to salvage 1 game in an important series and didn’t want any other relievers on the field.
Hendriks also hadn't pitched since July 20, and going two innings on five days rest is ndb for him.
Is wanting to salvage one game in an important series bad managing or something?
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Hendriks also hadn't pitched since July 20, and going two innings on five days rest is ndb for him.
Is wanting to salvage one game in an important series bad managing or something?
I think the bad managing is Kopech batting. Unless with the lead and knowing he might go Hendriks two innings, he wanted to make sure Hendriks wasn’t going to bat in a higher leverage spot.
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Hendriks also hadn't pitched since July 20, and going two innings on five days rest is ndb for him.
Is wanting to salvage one game in an important series bad managing or something?
I can’t understand why people constantly make up something and claim I said it and then argue with it
I NEVER SAID EVEN ONE WORD - not one - about bad managing.
If you are able to understand English - I commented on TLR’s lack of confidence in his bullpen.
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Yelich tested positive for covid
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Yelich tested positive for covid
Might improve the offense.
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Covid is a hoax to circumvent minor league assignment rules
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Yeah hes off to Chicago
Escobar was traded to the Brewers.
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Escobar was traded to the Brewers.
Brewers need all the bats they can get. I like it.
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Escobar was traded to the Brewers.
This was the guy I was hoping to get. Didn't have to give up a top 30 prospect for All-Star 3rd baseman.
Cubs better lower their sights on what they are going to get.
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This was the guy I was hoping to get. Didn't have to give up a top 30 prospect for All-Star 3rd baseman.
Cubs better lower their sights on what they are going to get.
2 no names for an all star. Boom goes the dynamite.
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I have no idea how the Sox couldn’t put together a better package for Escobar.
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I have no idea how the Sox couldn’t put together a better package for Escobar.
I had the same thought.
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Can they play Escobar at first or is Urias the odd man out?
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Can they play Escobar at first or is Urias the odd man out?
Would be a new experience for Esky if they did.
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The Twins hit 7 HR that measured almost 3,000 feet combined … and still managed to lose to the Tigers.
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Can they play Escobar at first or is Urias the odd man out?
Stearns says he'll play everywhere. With no September 40 man and no August waiver wire the thought is they got depth at every position. Frankly, I think he'll be playing some LF too with Yeli in the protocol.
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Can they play Escobar at first or is Urias the odd man out?
Think he could see some time there, but think we see a good chunk of his time platooning at first or for JBJ. He's like Hernan Perez but good
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Stearns Said he'd play 1st against lefties.
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This was the guy I was hoping to get. Didn't have to give up a top 30 prospect for All-Star 3rd baseman.
Cubs better lower their sights on what they are going to get.
Escobar has had a nice year and thats some solid business by Stearns but he's not exactly a fair comp for a 4 time All Star and former MVP who is 3 years younger and is having a better year across the board in a decent season than Escobar's best.
The trade market is definitely depressed compared to past years, but I don't think Escobar's value has any significant impact on someone like Bryant in the market. More like a lesser version of what the Rockies got for Arenado.
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The Twins hit 7 HR that measured almost 3,000 feet combined … and still managed to lose to the Tigers.
The Tigers who hit zero home runs, no less.
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The Marlins did crazy well for the Marte rental. Luzardo has boatloads of team control and was a former top prospect. The A's are a little like the Rays where any time they give up on somebody you go "what's wrong with him?" He's been pretty wild this year and has the pinkie injury, but still.
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Escobar has had a nice year and thats some solid business by Stearns but he's not exactly a fair comp for a 4 time All Star and former MVP who is 3 years younger and is having a better year across the board in a decent season than Escobar's best.
The trade market is definitely depressed compared to past years, but I don't think Escobar's value has any significant impact on someone like Bryant in the market. More like a lesser version of what the Rockies got for Arenado.
Darvish,Linder, arenado, Carrasco netted one Top 5 prospect between them and they weren’t 2 month rentals. There are some dumb GMs out there, but they will be very lucky getting a top 5 prospect.
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The Tigers who hit zero home runs, no less.
Yeah ... that's crazy! Tigers scored 17 runs without a HR ... and the Twins hit 7 HR and lost. Two fine teams, headed for greatness!
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Darvish,Linder, arenado, Carrasco netted one Top 5 prospect between them and they weren’t 2 month rentals. There are some dumb GMs out there, but they will be very lucky getting a top 5 prospect.
Thats totally fair, and I don't disagree. I just don't think the Escobar trade terms has any bearing on that.
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Thats totally fair, and I don't disagree. I just don't think the Escobar trade terms has any bearing on that.
It shows that teams value top prospects more than they used to. I remember when the Brewers got Sabathis. They gave up their #1 prospect plus Michael Brantley.
We aren’t going to see hauls like that any more.
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Really good pickup for the Sox.
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It shows that teams value top prospects more than they used to. I remember when the Brewers got Sabathis. They gave up their #1 prospect plus Michael Brantley.
We aren’t going to see hauls like that any more.
Matt LaPorta, who ended up being a complete bust at the major league level.
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Matt LaPorta, who ended up being a complete bust at the major league level.
If I remember right, Brantley was the PTBNL that we were all hoping wasn’t going to be Taylor Green.
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If I remember right, Brantley was the PTBNL that we were all hoping wasn’t going to be Taylor Green.
This is correct
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If I remember right, Brantley was the PTBNL that we were all hoping wasn’t going to be Taylor Green.
I think you are referring to David Green -another bust who was traded to St. Louis for Ted Simmons.
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I think you are referring to David Green -another bust who was traded to St. Louis for Ted Simmons.
No, Taylor Green is right.
https://awaybackgone.com/2014/07/09/cleveland-indians-trades-future-past-michael-brantley-vs-taylor-green/
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I think you are referring to David Green -another bust who was traded to St. Louis for Ted Simmons.
Fingers, Simmons, Vuckovich, for Green, Lapointe, Lezcano, Sorensen.
This Sunday, will be a big Hall of Fame Ceremony in St. Louis for Ted Simmons. The whole deal, number 23 retired on the red brick, outfield wall photo, statue out front with the other Hall of Famers. Worth watching for any Ted Simmons fans.
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No, Taylor Green is right.
https://awaybackgone.com/2014/07/09/cleveland-indians-trades-future-past-michael-brantley-vs-taylor-green/
You're right. Although I don't know why anyone would worry about him being thrown in. He was a Class A player who never was much good or even a top prospect.
David Green was the guy Brewers fans didn't want to lose back in the 80's - their top prospect.
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I have not seen anything written on this, but does anyone here think that teams will be hesitant to trade for someone who isn't vaccinated?
I'm thinking of a guy like Rizzo who is being linked to the red Sox. Is it worth it to trade for him and take the chance that on Oct. 1 he could get sick AND also cause other players to miss games through close contact.
Further, there is the 85% issue. If a team is just barely over 85%, trading for Rizzo would cause the team to give up the freedoms earned if the team is over 85% vaccinated.
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It shows that teams value top prospects more than they used to. I remember when the Brewers got Sabathis. They gave up their #1 prospect plus Michael Brantley.
We aren’t going to see hauls like that any more.
Sure, but again, using a 5 time AS/Cy Young Contender like Darvish, a stud like Arenado, and a AS/GG/SS winner like Lindor is valid argument comp when talking about Bryant. Comparing it Sabathia in his prime coming off a Cy Young, fair.
But using a mid level player who was on a 1 year deal a few years ago who made his first ASG at 32 and was really bad last year isnt a good comp for a guy ROY and MVP winner who has made the ASG in every full season he has played except one that he barely missed and still finished top 8 in the MVP voting that year. Its like in the NBA if Mike Conley got traded tonight and that was used as a comp for what the Blazers should expect for Damian Lillard
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Sure, but again, using a 5 time AS/Cy Young Contender like Darvish, a stud like Arenado, and a AS/GG/SS winner like Lindor is valid argument comp when talking about Bryant. Comparing it Sabathia in his prime coming off a Cy Young, fair.
But using a mid level player who was on a 1 year deal a few years ago who made his first ASG at 32 and was really bad last year isnt a good comp for a guy ROY and MVP winner who has made the ASG in every full season he has played except one that he barely missed and still finished top 8 in the MVP voting that year. Its like in the NBA if Mike Conley got traded tonight and that was used as a comp for what the Blazers should expect for Damian Lillard
I try to look for trends more than individual cases.
So Cesar Hernandez is just a good, every day 2B (I believe there is a team option for next year, as well). Nowhere near as good as some others being traded, but an everyday player who is very good defensively and a decent hitter. Cleveland did not even get a top 30 prospect for him.
Every team has finally learned that keeping top prospects is the best way to manage salaries. They do not want to give up top 5-10 guys even for someone who they think can help put them over the top.
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Yankees gave up zero top 30 prospects for Joey Gallo.
Blue Jays gave up #17 prospect for Brad Hand.
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You're right. Although I don't know why anyone would worry about him being thrown in. He was a Class A player who never was much good or even a top prospect.
David Green was the guy Brewers fans didn't want to lose back in the 80's - their top prospect.
At the time, I remember fans who followed things closely being excited for him. I’ve learned to not stress too much the trading of prospects since they rarely pan out. Outside of pitching prospects since that’s so expensive.
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Rizzo to the Yankees. This is most assuredly going to be for a bag of balls. This sucks.
Bryant to the Mets feels like its gonna happen to.
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Rizzo to the Yankees. This is most assuredly going to be for a bag of balls. This sucks.
Bryant to the Mets feels like its gonna happen to.
Looks like the Yanks #9 and #12 prospects. I’ll take it.
The Cubs are paying the remainder of Rizzo’s salary, but -as someone who bought three, $15 Old Styles to see the Cubs lose to the Reds last Tuesday- I think the team can afford it.
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Looks like the Yanks #9 and #12 prospects. I’ll take it.
The Cubs are paying the remainder of Rizzo’s salary, but -as someone who bought three, $15 Old Styles to see the Cubs lose to the Reds last Tuesday- I think the team can afford it.
How are the Ricketts gonna afford to bankroll Trumps next coup attempt
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How are the Ricketts gonna afford to bankroll Trumps next coup attempt
Exactly. When your team plays on your own TV station and you’ve bought every building within blocks of your ballpark, the least you can do is pay remainders of salaries to obtain better prospects.
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Looks like the Yanks #9 and #12 prospects. I’ll take it.
The Cubs are paying the remainder of Rizzo’s salary, but -as someone who bought three, $15 Old Styles to see the Cubs lose to the Reds last Tuesday- I think the team can afford it.
Pleasantly surprised. Vizcaino throws GAS.
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Whoa. ... Scherzer AND Turner to the Dodgers.
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Whoa. ... Scherzer AND Turner to the Dodgers.
Must be nice to be a “Doyers” fan. Somewhere Chico’s head is exploding.
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as someone who bought three, $15 Old Styles to see the Cubs lose to the Reds last Tuesday- I think the team can afford it.
Rooftops are well worth the price.
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Whoa. ... Scherzer AND Turner to the Dodgers.
Done with prospects they got dumping the contracts of Matt Kemp and Puig and Alex Wood to the Reds. Thats some wheeling and dealing.
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Rooftops are well worth the price.
If I wanted to not go to the game, I could just stay home.
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Nice job by the Twins getting Austin Martin (#16 overall on MLB Pipeline) and Simeon Woods (#68) for Berrios.
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Francona stepping away from coaching to take care of his health. Smart. Like Gardenhire a year ago.
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Nice job by the Twins getting Austin Martin (#16 overall on MLB Pipeline) and Simeon Woods (#68) for Berrios.
Yea thats a hell of a haul. Martin looks really good, SS of the future type player.
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Yea thats a hell of a haul. Martin looks really good, SS of the future type player.
It was. Martin could be a pretty solid player.
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Twins finally made a stellar move.
Unbelievable haul for someone like Berrios who breaks under pressure
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Looks like Kimberly to White Sox. Will be interesting to see who they get. I would think Berger has to be part of it.
Who will close? My guess is mostly Hendriks.
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I’m 1000% good with what the Sox gave up for Kimbrel.
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Good deal for Sox. Decent return for Cubs.
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Will Cubs be better than Pirates next year?
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Just when I get excited for what the Cubs get for Kimbrel (amazing that he turned around enough to garner such a return given how horrific he was last year)...
https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1421181441002639363?s=20
Welp. It was fun. Last one out (Kris Bryant) turn out the lights.
Baez and Lindor will be fun to watch. This blows.
Will Cubs be better than Pirates next year?
Doubtful. But at least the Ricketts have all that Wrigley redevelopment money!
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The Mets just got insanely exciting.
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I can’t believe the Cubs couldn’t get a better package for Kimbrel. As a Sox fan, when my reaction was “that’s it???”, usually not a good sign.
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Doubtful. But at least the Ricketts have all that Wrigley redevelopment money!
That and Marquee are the money trees in the future. The baseball team is a secondary stream.
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Will Cubs be better than Pirates next year?
Can they really get that much worse than this year? Yeah, selling the major pieces, but they weren't doing it.
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I can’t believe the Cubs couldn’t get a better package for Kimbrel. As a Sox fan, when my reaction was “that’s it???”, usually not a good sign.
Dish, I’m sure it was the best they could do. Still decent for them because elite closers have zero value on losing teams.
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Daniel Norris to the Brewers. Lefty utility reliever. Still wants to be a starter. Erratic as hell.
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Francona stepping away from coaching to take care of his health. Smart. Like Gardenhire a year ago.
Quitting on his team? Can't wait to see the Biles reaction
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Cubs fans still have a couple years of Jason Heyward to look forward to.
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I always love trading for relievers with ERAs .02 off from 6.
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The Twins just got two players for JA Happ.
This could be the changing of the guard in how this organization makes trades.
Meanwhile, the Cards should have the whole FO drug tested.
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The Twins just got two players for JA Happ.
This could be the changing of the guard in how this organization makes trades.
Meanwhile, the Cards should have the whole FO drug tested.
SHHH. Don't send up the bat signal
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I can’t believe the Cubs couldn’t get a better package for Kimbrel. As a Sox fan, when my reaction was “that’s it???”, usually not a good sign.
Agree. Madrigal is a nice little (emphasis on little) player and Heuer has potential, but c’mon. The Sox could probably trade Kimbrel in the off-season for a bigger haul than they gave up (if they want to).
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I can’t believe the Cubs couldn’t get a better package for Kimbrel. As a Sox fan, when my reaction was “that’s it???”, usually not a good sign.
Do you maybe just not like Nick Madrigal?
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I get Madrigal is not exciting and doesn't have star upside but the industry seems to think the Cubs did pretty well with that deal. I am curious what the other offers were.
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I want Nick Madrigal off my baseball team, like right now. I can’t take it anymore. I don’t care if he hits .350 with all his hits being single, I can’t do this anymore with his horrendous defense and terrible base running.
From a few months ago...
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I get Madrigal is not exciting and doesn't have star upside but the industry seems to think the Cubs did pretty well with that deal. I am curious what the other offers were.
Yeah, I actually think it was a fair trade.
Madrigal may not be the second coming of Jose Altuve, but he's a legit MLB starter who's under control for five more seasons.
Heuer looked great last year but has been a mess this year.
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From a few months ago...
I'd like to think the last six weeks of Leury Garcia and Danny Mendick manning second instead may have changed your mind about this.
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Yeah, I actually think it was a fair trade.
Madrigal may not be the second coming of Jose Altuve, but he's a legit MLB starter who's under control for five more seasons.
Heuer looked great last year but has been a mess this year.
This is what I agree with, the multi year control at little cost is the biggest upside here. Madrigal has a 70-75 hit tool, but also has three of his last four seasons have seen bad injuries (including two from baserunning).
Heuer had a very good 2020, some bad luck this year, but I for one could not trust him come this October in a big situation. Multi year control though, could bounce back.
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Cardinals get JA Happ and John Lester, essentially cornering the market on bad, over the hill left handed starting pitchers.
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One thing that maybe I only find interesting, is in these crosstown mid season trades, I would assume it’s got to be easier on Tepera and Kimbrel mentally.
Don’t have to move at all, family can stay in place, kids go to same school. Just a different route to work each day.
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David Ross walking into the clubhouse today
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/hEc4k5pN17GZq/giphy.gif)
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David Ross walking into the clubhouse today
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/hEc4k5pN17GZq/giphy.gif)
Kris Bryant today:
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/7760332e9ee641363e165e7ec15b1140/tenor.gif?itemid=11321840)
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Yeah, I actually think it was a fair trade.
Madrigal may not be the second coming of Jose Altuve, but he's a legit MLB starter who's under control for five more seasons.
Heuer looked great last year but has been a mess this year.
I think it’s TBD if Nick Madrigal is a legit MLB starting second baseman. He’s a very good contact hitter but little else - zero power, very small and so far very fragile. Not a base stealer, questionable base running instincts, below average defensively, I would rank him pretty far down the list of second basemen. He does have years of control and may get better but he looks like a replacement level player to me. I’d rather have Hernandez and he’s no all star.
Heuer, otoh, has a lot of potential. Who knows whether he will realize it.
Bottom line, if the White Sox decide they want to trade Kimbrel in off season I don’t see why they won’t be able to get at least the equivalent of Madrigal/Heuer in return. They can make that decision later. In the meantime, they get Kimbrel for the stretch run/postseason for nothing (other than his salary).
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Cubs give Bryant away for a song. Not even surprised. It became more and more apparent today that this was about dumping salary as opposed to trying to strategically accrue assets for the future.
Baez and a pitcher for a prospect coming off shoulder surgery. Yay!
Really banking on the pink hat Cubs fans to fill Wrigley through the next few seasons while treating the team like the mid 2000s Marlins.
When Epstein rebuilt the Cubs, you could see the vision. You could see what they were trying to do. With this firesale, no damn idea.
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Quitting on his team? Can't wait to see the Biles reaction
He has had health struggles the last couple of years. Going to try to get healthy for next year.
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Cubs only have 19 players on hand tonight in Washington, if my math is right, 11 of them are pitchers (no?).
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Cubs give Bryant away for a song. Not even surprised. It became more and more apparent today that this was about dumping salary as opposed to trying to strategically accrue assets for the future.
Baez and a pitcher for a prospect coming off shoulder surgery. Yay!
Really banking on the pink hat Cubs fans to fill Wrigley through the next few seasons while treating the team like the mid 2000s Marlins.
When Epstein rebuilt the Cubs, you could see the vision. You could see what they were trying to do. With this firesale, no damn idea.
Today had nothing to do with dumping salary and everything to do with getting assets in return for players that weren't likely to sign extensions. The return for Bryant was in line for a 2 month rental and Canario has plenty of upside. Always a mistake to get too carried away, good or bad, with a return early on.
This time hasn't been winning and wasn't going to continue to win with this core of players. It sucks but time to start over. The farm is now a lot better, a high draft pick likely coming next summer, and plenty of payroll flexibility.
I'll be most interested to see what Baez, KB and Rizzo actually get on the open market. If Baez wants $200 million, good luck. If Rizzo really wants a comparative contract to the one Goldschmidt got, good luck.
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So much for the Cubs dynasty.
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They won their world series for this century.
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Re: Cubs. I can agree that I don't (yet) see a vision - but they did acquire some decent young talent for guys that 1) weren't winning together this year (and certainly didn't live up to the post 2016 hype) and 2) weren't likely to sign again in a couple months. So I'm willing to call it a a good return for the cubs.
IMO, the biggest losses were to the bullpen, but those 3 guys probably weren't around for more than another year anyway. So, tear it all down, and we'll see how good Jed is at putting it back together.
It's been miserable watching all these "stars" lose the past couple months. So I'm happy to go any other direction.
And hey, at least Heyward isn't going anywhere. :P
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Cubs only have 19 players on hand tonight in Washington, if my math is right, 11 of them are pitchers (no?).
And I believe Williams and Lester were to be the starters. Whoops.
Edit: Hah, it's the all 3rd basemen infield:
Patrick Wisdom, 1B
David Bote, 2B
Matt Duffy, 3B
Sergio Alcantara, SS
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Today had nothing to do with dumping salary and everything to do with getting assets in return for players that weren't likely to sign extensions. The return for Bryant was in line for a 2 month rental and Canario has plenty of upside. Always a mistake to get too carried away, good or bad, with a return early on.
This time hasn't been winning and wasn't going to continue to win with this core of players. It sucks but time to start over. The farm is now a lot better, a high draft pick likely coming next summer, and plenty of payroll flexibility.
I'll be most interested to see what Baez, KB and Rizzo actually get on the open market. If Baez wants $200 million, good luck. If Rizzo really wants a comparative contract to the one Goldschmidt got, good luck.
I don't disagree with much of this, I meant more salary dumping in regards that they weren't going to attempt to resign any of their pricey "stars". Canario is just ok for me. Certainly not enough to take the sting out of a swift and complete dismantle.
Ive not been super impressed with the organization and/or FO for a bit now, so I'm sure that probably tints the perspective a bit. Maybe they build around Contreras and Nico turns into a very good SS.
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Cardinals get JA Happ and John Lester, essentially cornering the market on bad, over the hill left handed starting pitchers.
Nope. Now they get to play “the Cardinal way”. We will see 2 studs in August and September.
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So much for the Cubs dynasty.
Seriously.
They won a Series, and that's obviously huge, but given the young core they had 2015-2019, I think Cubs fans might be a little disappointed that they only made it to one.
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I think it’s TBD if Nick Madrigal is a legit MLB starting second baseman. He’s a very good contact hitter but little else - zero power, very small and so far very fragile. Not a base stealer, questionable base running instincts, below average defensively, I would rank him pretty far down the list of second basemen. He does have years of control and may get better but he looks like a replacement level player to me. I’d rather have Hernandez and he’s no all star.
Heuer, otoh, has a lot of potential. Who knows whether he will realize it.
Bottom line, if the White Sox decide they want to trade Kimbrel in off season I don’t see why they won’t be able to get at least the equivalent of Madrigal/Heuer in return. They can make that decision later. In the meantime, they get Kimbrel for the stretch run/postseason for nothing (other than his salary).
Agree to disagree on Madrigal. He slashed .365/.420/.568 over the three weeks before he got injured. That's not evidence of zero power. While he'll never hit a lot of HRs, I think he'll develop more gap power and be a 30-double, 10-HR guy.
His defense was below par to date, but elite in college, so I'm not sure the results of his first 80 MLB games are binding.
But we'll see.
Which isn't to say I don't like the trade. I do. Hernandez makes Madrigal expendable through 2022 and I'm thrilled to see the Sox go for it.
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I don't disagree with much of this, I meant more salary dumping in regards that they weren't going to attempt to resign any of their pricey "stars". Canario is just ok for me. Certainly not enough to take the sting out of a swift and complete dismantle.
Ive not been super impressed with the organization and/or FO for a bit now, so I'm sure that probably tints the perspective a bit. Maybe they build around Contreras and Nico turns into a very good SS.
Fair enough. I'll give Jed the benefit of the doubt for now that he's running his own show. Certainly no half measures taken this deadline.
I do wonder if they'll explore a Contreras trade this offseason if they can't come to an agreement on an extension. Will certainly be an interesting offseason.
2 more years of Heyward. Ugggghhh.
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Seriously.
They won a Series, and that's obviously huge, but given the young core they had 2015-2019, I think Cubs fans might be a little disappointed that they only made it to one.
It would’ve been awesome to win several World Series. But, in a sport which has seen a repeat champ since the 90’s, I think this core did pretty well.
2015: Win the WC game, win the NLDS
2016: Win the Division, Win the World Series
2017: Win the Division, win the NLDS
2018: Lose the WC
2019: eliminated from playoff contention with 5 games to go
2020: win the Division
This core of Cubs completely changed the narrative. They went from Completely Useless By September to “ha, ha, you didn’t have a dynasty!” I’ll take it.
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It would’ve been awesome to win several World Series. But, in a sport which has seen a repeat champ since the 90’s, I think this core did pretty well.
2015: Win the WC game, win the NLDS
2016: Win the Division, Win the World Series
2017: Win the Division, win the NLDS
2018: Lose the WC
2019: eliminated from playoff contention with 5 games to go
2020: win the Division
This core of Cubs completely changed the narrative. They went from Completely Useless By September to “ha, ha, you didn’t have a dynasty!” I’ll take it.
+1
Best stretch of Cubs baseball I've had the pleasure of experiencing.
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+1
Best stretch of Cubs baseball I've had the pleasure of experiencing.
As a Brewers fan, all I want is one World Series. More would be great, one will suffice
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Cardinals get JA Happ and John Lester, essentially cornering the market on bad, over the hill left handed starting pitchers.
The Cardinals were unwilling to move Liberatore, Gorman, Walker, Thompson, Herrera, Winn. That’s who other teams would want.
They have used more than 10 starting pitchers this season. Some haven’t pitched the entire season and won’t. A few they get back soon, Mikolas, Flaherty.
Lester and Happ are called taking a low cost flyer on previously durable innings eaters. Lester is due $670,000. And the Twins are paying cash to Stl for Happ. No Dave Duncan to work the veteran pitcher magic. He’s busy fielding nightly phone calls from LaRussa about his staff.
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Lester and Happ are called taking a low cost flyer on previously durable innings eaters.
To eat innings for a non-contending team. Interesting strategy.
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To eat innings for a non-contending team. Interesting strategy.
I’m matter of factly saying what that was. Obviously they have various holes and needs to improve their team.
The Cardinals don’t tank as an organizational philosophy. They have had one losing season in over 20 years. The Cubs will have done it multiple times in that stretch. There are different ways to do things.
They have a prospect list of players that they are, and are not willing to move. They have a budget. They did have one deal that did fall through today.
Suppose they can’t always fleece Colorado in trades. They could have signed the home town kid (Scherzer)
when he was last a free agent and wanted to go there, but they didn’t want to spend that level of money. They had a deal today that fell through.
Otherwise they will try to compete with what they have and what they get back from injury, for a wild card spot until while not sacrificing 2022.
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I’m matter of factly saying what that was.
As am I. Not a pundit I can find that can make sense of the moves. Only state what the organization has. And an interesting strategy it is.
Otherwise they will try to compete with what they have and what they get back from injury, for a wild card spot until while not sacrificing 2022.
Yeah, they ain't competing for a wild card spot. After the moves today - 2.2% chance. As a cubs fan, I had to give up the ghost a couple weeks ago on those hopes. Probably a good time for cards fans to realize that now too.
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As am I. Not a pundit I can find that can make sense of the moves. Only state what the organization has. And an interesting strategy it is.
I explained it pretty clearly in my post. They literally need innings eaters, as in not having enough starters until a few injured starters come back later this season.
These are last year of their contract players that don’t cost much money. If they flop and get released, no harm done. If they have some short term success they will take it.
Cards are playing for 2022 while trying to be competitive this year. If they can make a run at the wild card, they will take it. But they don’t tank/give away/sell. And, they weren’t willing to sacrifice next year for the rest of this year.
Seems pretty easy to understand. People can agree or disagree with it, but that’s what it is.
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I explained it pretty clearly in my post.
{snip}
Seems pretty easy to understand.
{snip}
It's easy to understand if there's any chance at the playoffs. But there's no chance. That's why it's not easy to understand for the real world.
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I don’t know if there’s a baseball team constantly stuck in purgatory more than the Angels. They continually waste Trout, now also Ohtani, spend money stupidly (Pujols/Rendon), and consistently have a weak farm system.
Has to be maddening (pardon the pun) to be a fan of them.
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It's easy to understand if there's any chance at the playoffs. But there's no chance. That's why it's not easy to understand for the real world.
Lester is making $5 Million this year. Much of that is from a signing bonus. Cards pay very little. Cards are getting cash for Happ.
In 2019, just two seasons ago, the Cardinals hovered around .500 until later July and finished 47-26. After defeating Atlanta in the playoffs they lost in the NLCS. This team isn’t too far off from this year’s team. I’ve seen this movie before, a time or two. Sometimes their 100 win teams aren’t the ones that win in the post season.
The Cardinals aren’t expected to make the playoffs. But the Cardinals are not going to tank, not going to sell, not going to give up certain prospects like a Matthew Liberatore etc..to sacrifice next season. At the same time, they will try to take a run at it. Not many teams go a few decades with one losing season, and, multiple current players have been around for multiple cycles if tank, sell, rebuild of other teams such as the Cubs.
I see you offered new specific alternative solutions in your analysis.
So that leaves them with what they did. They are going to let their young pitchers develop while taking a low to no cost flyer on a few struggling older guys
to give them some innings to keep them in the mix until some other players arrive.
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So that leaves them with what they did.
That you fail to see any alternatives for a non contending team is highly amusing. Cheers brother.
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That you fail to see any alternatives for a non contending team is highly amusing. Cheers brother.
“There are few things less productive than complaint without change.”
What I failed to see was your specific list of alternatives because up until now you don’t seem to have any. It wasn’t as though they didn’t look at various options.
You seem to be projecting and repeating yourself quite a bit. It would appear you are a Cubs fan having a tough day. I get it.
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It would appear you are a Cubs fan having a tough day. I get it.
I’ve talked to a lot of Cubs fans today and, to a person, they all sound happy with today’s results.
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I’ve talked to a lot of Cubs fans today and, to a person, they all sound happy with today’s results.
Indeed bittersweet in that I do wish those guys were better the past 3 years, but appreciated them all, and hope they can have some fun the rest of this season. A reboot was needed.
Shoot, it's not my responsibility to teach you why your clubs decision today makes no sense. You can Google that for yourself.
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Indeed bittersweet in that I do wish those guys were better the past 3 years, but appreciated them all, and hope they can have some fun the rest of this season. A reboot was needed.
Shoot, it's not my responsibility to teach you why your clubs decision today makes no sense. You can Google that for yourself.
It’s their club, not mine.
Why would I need to google it or listen to as you say, pundits? I don’t. I know what they are doing because I know the people doing it and why they are doing it. I’ve even in part explained some if it you. But you seem to prefer pundit hot takes instead of specifics. That isn’t my thing. Again people can agree or disagree (I’m sure there is some of both) with the strategy.
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I’ve talked to a lot of Cubs fans today and, to a person, they all sound happy with today’s results.
Great. Maybe pass that along to some of the Cub fans in this thread and others out there that seem to find it a challenging baseball day for them.
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Great. Maybe pass that along to some of the Cub fans in this thread and others out there that seem to find it a challenging baseball day for them.
LMAO. Never change Shoot, never change. Is it exhausting to always be absolutely correct and beyond reproach about anything and everything, all while condescendingly patting everyone on the head that dares disagree? I'd love to know your vitamin regiment.
Rizzo hitting a HR for the Yankees straight away was REALLY weird to see for a lot of people I imahine.
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LMAO. Never change Shoot, never change. Is it exhausting to always be absolutely correct and beyond reproach about anything and everything, all while condescendingly patting everyone on the head that dares disagree? I'd love to know your vitamin regiment.
Rizzo hitting a HR for the Yankees straight away was REALLY weird to see for a lot of people I imahine.
This was your quote:
“Ledecky is one of the biggest hyped disappointments of the games.”
These are some of Ledecky’s results:
1500 Gold
800 Gold
400 Silver, 3rd fastest time ever.
4x200 Relay, Silver. 2nd fastest time ever. Come from behind anchor leg.
When this gets pointed out to you in response to your (frequent) disappointment, you sarcastically say the other person is always correct. Never change etc..rinse repeat.
(With the baseball topic, I explained someone else’s strategy and why. I never gave my personal opinion on the topic. That’s something you mistakenly read into the posts in your haste.)
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Great. Maybe pass that along to some of the Cub fans in this thread and others out there that seem to find it a challenging baseball day for them.
Adorable.
As a Cubs fan, the past couple of days sucked but needed to happen.
Cards probably should have sold. Enjoy Goldy and Arenado’s expensive but declining production.
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This was your quote:
“Ledecky is one of the biggest hyped disappointments of the games.”
These are some of Ledecky’s results:
1500 Gold
800 Gold
400 Silver, 3rd fastest time ever.
4x200 Relay, Silver. 2nd fastest time ever. Come from behind anchor leg.
When this gets pointed out to you in response to your (frequent) disappointment, you sarcastically say the other person is always correct. Never change etc..rinse repeat.
(With the baseball topic, I explained someone else’s strategy and why. I never gave my personal opinion on the topic. That’s something you mistakenly read into the posts in your haste.)
This is the MLB thread?
Not to mention the statement you've so kindly quoted was made before all but one of those races occurred and she had finished 2nd and 5th in finals while NBC kept hyping history chasing and other buzzwords. And I never said anything sarcastic in response to my comments about Ledecky, but you do you.
Seems like you're a condescending know it all who loves the look of his own ample paragraphs. But what do I know, im just sarcastic and frequently disappointed, desperately emotional tribal fan. I should learn to be quiet and bow to the generosity of knowledge you share with all of us, none of it based in anything but sublime facts, none in haste and simplistic opinions like all my posts. Look forward to you digging up some more of my posts from other threads unrelated to this earlier in the summer to prove more points.
Cheers to the Cards inevitable WC berth!
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Cheers to the Cards inevitable WC berth!
Indeed! This should be an amazing end to the season seeing them surpass the Giants/padres/dodgers to get the wild card now that they have their innings eaters in place!
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Adorable.
As a Cubs fan, the past couple of days sucked but needed to happen.
Cards probably should have sold. Enjoy Goldy and Arenado’s expensive but declining production.
Someone posted that everyone they knew were happy with the results. I posted that several people here weren’t exactly thrilled with what eventually came to be. I never gave my opinion of it. I never poked fun at the Cubs or Cub fans about it. I’m able to like what I like and enjoy what I enjoy just fine. I don’t need to put something or someone else down to lift myself up.
I’ve lived in Chicago, Milwaukee (among other places) and I’ve enjoyed my time in all of those places.
To answer the other part, I think many Cardinal observers would have preferred a few starting pitching additions and another bat prior to the season if you took a poll. As for selling, and/or tanking, this group has owned the team since 1996. They aren’t going to do that. And, it would ‘t go over well. The Cardinals win a lot and have a lot of history, but they rely upon certain things in order to be an MLB team that has revenue and spending greater than their market size would suggest.
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This is the MLB thread?
Not to mention the statement you've so kindly quoted was made before all but one of those races occurred and she had finished 2nd and 5th in finals while NBC kept hyping history chasing and other buzzwords. And I never said anything sarcastic in response to my comments about Ledecky, but you do you.
Seems like you're a condescending know it all who loves the look of his own ample paragraphs. But what do I know, im just sarcastic and frequently disappointed, desperately emotional tribal fan. I should learn to be quiet and bow to the generosity of knowledge you share with all of us, none of it based in anything but sublime facts, none in haste and simplistic opinions like all my posts. Look forward to you digging up some more of my posts from other threads unrelated to this earlier in the summer to prove more points.
Cheers to the Cards inevitable WC berth!
I didn’t make the statement that she was an overhyped disappointment. You did.
She wasn’t overhyped and she wasn’t a disappointment. (obviously) And others posted to point that out to you as well.
No one said you made sarcastic comments about Ledecky. It’s what you do with others when something such as the above example is pointed out to you. It’s called gaslighting, which is to deflect, distract, change the subject because the subject at hand isn’t working out for you. It can be an effective (but often frowned upon) strategy in some situations. That’s why some people use it to get out of a certain situation or to change the subject they don’t like.
By the way, never mind her gold here, gold there, record here, record there….2nd isn’t a bad thing. 2nd is good. 2nd isn’t overhyped. In this case 2nd was the 3rd fastest time ever. Afterwards she was thrilled about it. Good for her.
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To be fair, the Cardinals really had nothing to sell. Well maybe a bad Matt Carpenter, but they have two guys locked up on contracts that go on for years that already look questionable. I don't view their acquisition of Lester and Happ as any sort of grand organizational strategy, but simply the better of options that actually weren't very good. Two low risk additions even though the chances of making the playoffs are minimal.
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Maybe the veterans help their younger guys too.
Cubs fans, is there a chance Rizzo signs back with the Cubs?
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Maybe the veterans help their younger guys too.
Cubs fans, is there a chance Rizzo signs back with the Cubs?
Time to move on.
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Meanwhile, the division leaders are on a nice roll!
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Meanwhile, the division leaders are on a nice roll!
Word.
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Larissa clowns himself again last night after Abrue got hit.
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Meanwhile, the division leaders are on a nice roll!
They are a lot of fun to watch. My gut says they still need some good luck to get past the big boys out West, but their pitching gives them a lot of room for error. They really just need their offense to be the middle ground between where they started the year and where it currently sits.
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I’m matter of factly saying what that was. Obviously they have various holes and needs to improve their team.
The Cardinals don’t tank as an organizational philosophy. They have had one losing season in over 20 years. The Cubs will have done it multiple times in that stretch. There are different ways to do things.
They have a prospect list of players that they are, and are not willing to move. They have a budget. They did have one deal that did fall through today.
Suppose they can’t always fleece Colorado in trades. They could have signed the home town kid (Scherzer)
when he was last a free agent and wanted to go there, but they didn’t want to spend that level of money. They had a deal today that fell through.
Otherwise they will try to compete with what they have and what they get back from injury, for a wild card spot until while not sacrificing 2022.
The cards gave away two baseball players with fully intact limbs for JA Happ
If you are in any way trying to say that was a intelligent decision, you should probably start following baseball.
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They are a lot of fun to watch. My gut says they still need some good luck to get past the big boys out West, but their pitching gives them a lot of room for error. They really just need their offense to be the middle ground between where they started the year and where it currently sits.
If there’s enough injuries, could be the year Milwaukee gets lucky.
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The cards gave away two baseball players with fully intact limbs for JA Happ
If you are in any way trying to say that was a intelligent decision, you should probably start following baseball.
Not sure how many times I can answer the same question. I explained several times what they are doing and why. I never gave my opinion of it. It’s pretty easy and straight forward to understand.
The Twins and Cardinals did talk last month about Berrios. The Twins asking price was too high. Cards said no. Eventually the Twins obtained two top 20 MLB prospects for him. One was Austin Martin. Good player.
If you are a Twins fan, I would ignore a few of the recent baseball pundits about Austin’s (power). He’ll be fine. Just getting started. Has the OPS up to (.852) this past month. He’s a high average, very good line drive hitter all fields inside out ball attacker. On base monster, gap to gap, extremely versatile, and he’ll K less than a 100. He can play anywhere except catcher, though much of his past playing experience has been SS, 3B, CF. If he plays one spot long enough, he’ll do it well. He has some similarities (and some differences) with Jordan Lawlar who was 6th overall this year. (Martin 5th overall last year)
Martin will get mentioned sometimes with Jordan Lawlar signed for a million over-slot with Arizona ($6,713,300) this year. AZ is out of pool money but they can still possibly sign Davis Diaz. Corbs would probably reference Jeter the most with Lawlar.
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It’s almost certain that the Playoffs will be the NL West winner takes on the winner of the wild card, which will be 2nd and 3rd in the NL West. So the Brewers will probably just have to beat the Mets to make an NLCS. Then hope to ride Woody, Burnes, and Peralta to 4 wins in 7 low scoring games in the NLCS. Won’t be the favorites, but it’s possible.
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It’s almost certain that the Playoffs will be the NL West winner takes on the winner of the wild card, which will be 2nd and 3rd in the NL West. So the Brewers will probably just have to beat the Mets to make an NLCS. Then hope to ride Woody, Burnes, and Peralta to 4 wins in 7 low scoring games in the NLCS. Won’t be the favorites, but it’s possible.
It IS possible. But this year is already shaping up fantastically with an expected 4th straight playoff appearance for the smallest market in MLB in the sport that is the least balanced financially of all. They do more with less than any team in baseball. It's why I ALWAYS cheer for the small market teams over the bloated behemoths with unlimited budgets.
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It IS possible. But this year is already shaping up fantastically with an expected 4th straight playoff appearance for the smallest market in MLB in the sport that is the least balanced financially of all. They do more with less than any team in baseball. It's why I ALWAYS cheer for the small market teams over the bloated behemoths with unlimited budgets.
I think the Rays would beg to differ about doing more with less and in a tougher division.
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I think the Rays would beg to differ about doing more with less and in a tougher division.
Don't think anyone expected the Cubs and cards to be sub .500 teams this year.
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To be fair, the Cardinals really had nothing to sell. Well maybe a bad Matt Carpenter, but they have two guys locked up on contracts that go on for years that already look questionable. I don't view their acquisition of Lester and Happ as any sort of grand organizational strategy, but simply the better of options that actually weren't very good. Two low risk additions even though the chances of making the playoffs are minimal.
But that's the thing, they have like 6 games they can afford to lose by the end of the year before being virtually eliminated. This wasn't some "best of bad situation" , this was just what they decided to do, and it won't make a difference to their situation.
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But that's the thing, they have like 6 games they can afford to lose by the end of the year before being virtually eliminated. This wasn't some "best of bad situation" , this was just what they decided to do, and it won't make a difference to their situation.
If the Brewers play .500 ball the rest of the way, the Cardinals will have to be 39-20 to force Game 163.
I understand hyperbole, and I don’t think the Cards are going 39-20. I think it’s even less likely the Brewers play .500. That said, I kinda understand the Cards mindset that we “aren’t out until we are out.”
As for the inherent smugness of the Best Fans in Baseball, the Cardinals stopped winning frequent World Series in the 1960’s. A 50 year-old baseball fan had seen 3 Cardinals championships in his lifetime; it’s not like their blueprint necessarily works.
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I understand hyperbole, and I don’t think the Cards are going 39-20. I think it’s even less likely the Brewers play .500. That said, I kinda understand the Cards mindset that we “aren’t out until we are out.”
Sorry, it's not *really* hyperbole. By my count, the Cards have 29 games left against .500+ squads, so we can fairly safely assume they lose at least 14 of those. That gives them maybe 6 losses in the other 30 games to make the playoffs. 5 if they don't come back today.
edit: Oh, and I don't think they play another .500+ team until the crew on Aug 17, so yeah, they'll lose 6 before then.
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But that's the thing, they have like 6 games they can afford to lose by the end of the year before being virtually eliminated. This wasn't some "best of bad situation" , this was just what they decided to do, and it won't make a difference to their situation.
1) They want their minor league pitching prospects to get their work in the minor leagues this year. i.e. Matthew Liberatore etc…
2) They did not want to give up certain prospects already mentioned earlier in this thread that they expect to use in 2022. They had many discussions, talk after talk, team after team. They thought the asking price was too high.
Most of the their discussions involved other teams asking for certain top prospects. In many years the Cardinals are doing well, have less holes to fill, etc..and they are more willing to trade a stockpile of prospects for impact stretch run players. We’ve seen it many times. But that isn’t this year.
Unlike some if the past heavy free agents and trades, teams, the recent Cardinals strategy has preferred to build more these days through draft and player development.
3) They aren’t selling their few veteran good players. They don’t sell and start over as an organizational philosophy.
4) They aren’t tanking for picks. Again, it’s not an organizational philosophy.
5) They have used more than 10 starting pitchers this season because of injury. Multiple expected rotation starters haven’t pitched a single inning. Others have missed a lot of time. They are getting back two of those missing starters soon.
6) They had a deal for a starting pitcher that fell through at the last minute.
7) They aren’t going to sacrifice the 2022 season where they will be adding several players.
8) They wanted to rent low to no cost, last year of deal, veteran pitchers who can briefly fill a gap in their rotation.
I know some people are used to the Cardinals adding difference makers at the deadline many times over the years.
You keep oddly, obsessively repeating the same thing without offering up a different strategy that’s based on all of the factors present that you have to deal with when coming up with those alternatives.
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If the Brewers play .500 ball the rest of the way, the Cardinals will have to be 39-20 to force Game 163.
I understand hyperbole, and I don’t think the Cards are going 39-20. I think it’s even less likely the Brewers play .500. That said, I kinda understand the Cards mindset that we “aren’t out until we are out.”
As for the inherent smugness of the Best Fans in Baseball, the Cardinals stopped winning frequent World Series in the 1960’s. A 50 year-old baseball fan had seen 3 Cardinals championships in his lifetime; it’s not like their blueprint necessarily works.
It isn’t easy to win a World Series.
Only two teams have won more World Series Titles in your arbitrary time frame than the Cardinals. One is the Yankees of course. The other? Oakland has 1 more, and, all but one came before 1975. This is up there with some people on their couch who somehow feel disappointed seeing Silver and Bronze Medals.
30 playoff appearances 23 Pennants. 11 World Series Titles.
Since the current ownership bought the team in 1996, they have made the playoffs 15 times in 25 seasons. 8 NLCS, 4 World Series, 2 World Series Titles.
I’d say they’re doing okay. I’m sure some other teams would take it.
It isn’t a mindset of we aren’t out until we are out. It’s a mindset of playing for 2022 while not tanking, selling, giving away 2021.
Not sure why it’s so difficult to understand for some. The current ownership has had just 3 losing seasons in 25 years. There is a big middle ground for them between World Series Title and having a losing record. They field competitive, winning, baseball teams most years. Try to be in the mix, add when warranted, make a run. And some of those teams have done so. That’s how they do it. This is a year where they are stuck a bit which has been well documented. They did finish 47-26 two seasons ago. But that is less likely this year.
Using the Cardinals as an example, they have had several dominant 100 plus win teams that didn’t win the World Series but came close. Historically they have also won big with some great teams, yes. But they have had some other World Series winning teams that didn’t win as many games as the 100 win teams. And in 2011 they won the World Series with a Wild Card team, which has become more common.
The Cardinals aren’t going to spend as much or draw similar tv revenue deals as L.A., Boston, New York etc…They’ll he in that too dozen or so.
Every team has good, bad, and, indifferent fans.
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Shoot, you also repeat a lot. There were cheaper options they had to close out a losing season. Sorry you can't see it.
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Shoot, you also repeat a lot. There were cheaper options they had to close out a losing season. Sorry you can't see it.
I responded to your repeat posts by continuing to point out that you have yet to provide any alternatives based on their circumstances. Not one specific name, suggestion, example, alternative. Yet you keep posting the same thing. Perhaps if you had one, you would have posted it by now.
You very vaguely say there are cheaper options. Both of these two players came very cheap. That was part of the point. Lester’s salary was mostly a signing bonus paid by Washington. Minnesota is paying the Cardinals cash to take Happ. The Cardinals players weren’t in the Cardinals plans. They weren’t protected prospects.
A losing season means their record is worse than 81-81. That may or may not happen. We’ll see. They are mostly playing for 2022. They would rather keep what they have get it healthy, and add to that for 2022 than blow up the team. Seems pretty easy to understand.
They have had 3 losing seasons in 25 years. It is something their ownership doesn’t prefer to do. It isn’t an either or of winning World Series or lose a 100 games.
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Only two teams have won more World Series Titles in your arbitrary time frame than the Cardinals. One is the Yankees of course. The other? Oakland has 1 more, and, all but one came before 1975.
Your responses are So.Very.Long. But, stopping after your very first line We know you are excluding the Red Sox 4 titles since 2004.
I think maybe the Cardinals win more often in your head than they actually do on real life.
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Shoot, you want names? I personally know a couple ex pitchers you could have signed off the street for cheaper. PM me and I'll give up their contact info. They'd be thrilled to take the money the cards spent. Surprised you can't come up with better options on your own
You're clearly a fan or employed by the team. Stop trying to act like someone impartial. LoL
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How many losing seasons have the Cardinals had in the last 25 years? I haven’t been able to find this answer anywhere.
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Your responses are So.Very.Long. But, stopping after your very first line We know you are excluding the Red Sox 4 titles since 2004.
I think maybe the Cardinals win more often in your head than they actually do on real life.
What? Tolstoy would be impressed with shoothoops' brevity.
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How many losing seasons have the Cardinals had in the last 25 years? I haven’t been able to find this answer anywhere.
If you don't win. You're a loser. So apparently 23 of 25 years.
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How many losing seasons have the Cardinals had in the last 25 years? I haven’t been able to find this answer anywhere.
What does the “we finished .500” trophy look like? Google Images shows nothing.
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Your responses are So.Very.Long. But, stopping after your very first line We know you are excluding the Red Sox 4 titles since 2004.
I think maybe the Cardinals win more often in your head than they actually do on real life.
Good for Boston. Celebrate success.
I don’t think that really helps the point you were trying to make. It actually illustrates just how difficult it is to win and be successful. Somehow the not so great Cardinals have played in more World Series, made the playoffs more years, have won more playoff games, than Boston during that same time frame. (and we haven’t even gotten to other time frames yet)
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Good for Boston. Celebrate success.
I don’t think that really helps the point you were trying to make. It actually illustrates just how difficult it is to win and be successful. Somehow the not so great Cardinals have played in more World Series, made the playoffs more years, have won more playoff games, than Boston during that same time frame. (and we haven’t even gotten to other time frames yet)
Oh, so the moves to acquire Lester and Happ were to retain historical significance! Got it. Good work!
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Shoot, you want names? I personally know a couple ex pitchers you could have signed off the street for cheaper. PM me and I'll give up their contact info. They'd be thrilled to take the money the cards spent. Surprised you can't come up with better options on your own
You're clearly a fan or employed by the team. Stop trying to act like someone impartial. LoL
I think you mistakenly think Lester and Happ are expensive options. They aren’t. They are low cost, low risk, low commitment options. How many times do you think you can post the same thing without providing a specific alternative solution? I’m open to hearing any specific suggestion specific plan, specific alternative, anything specific. It’s pretty wild how much the Cardinals occupy your headspace.
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I think you mistakenly think Lester and Happ are expensive options. They aren’t. They are low cost, low risk, low commitment options. How many times do you think you can post the same thing without providing a specific alternative solution? I’m open to hearing any specific suggestion specific plan, specific alternative, anything specific.
There's no mistake. You're delusional. I told you, PM me and I will give you a few of cheaper options for your losing season.
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If you don't win. You're a loser. So apparently 23 of 25 years.
Wow. How sad.
Has Marquette been a loser since 1977?
Are Olympians that don’t win Gold Medals or Medals at all losers?
That’s a pretty rough way to go through life. I feel bad for you. (sincerely)
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Wow. How sad.
Has Marquette been a loser since 1977?
Are Olympians that don’t win Gold Medals or Medals at all losers?
That’s a pretty rough way to go through life. I feel bad for you. (sincerely)
Yes.
And Yes.
But I'm not sad. It's just sports/entertainment. As a cubs fan, I've been trying to offer you suggestions on how to deal with the fact the Cards have no chance this year. Cubs and Brewers fans can help you. Reach out if needed. We can help.
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I think you mistakenly think Lester and Happ are expensive options. They aren’t. They are low cost, low risk, low commitment options. How many times do you think you can post the same thing without providing a specific alternative solution? I’m open to hearing any specific suggestion specific plan, specific alternative, anything specific. It’s pretty wild how much the Cardinals occupy your headspace.
You’re acting like low cost is a good thing. They are low cost for a reason. If you want low cost players, become a Pirates fan.
Putting bad pitchers on the mound is also very high risk - not low risk as you claim. The only low risk is of winning.
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Trade backs on this Curtiss cat? Oof.
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Trade backs on this Curtiss cat? Oof.
One game. This got off the rails cuz CB gonna CB. Curtiss has been good all year, and ATL is fighting for its playoff lives.
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You’re acting like low cost is a good thing. They are low cost for a reason. If you want low cost players, become a Pirates fan.
Putting bad pitchers on the mound is also very high risk - not low risk as you claim. The only low risk is of winning.
Maybe go back and read the back and forth of that in the thread.
Just read what’s there. I never said it was good or bad.
Rocky said those two players were expensive adds. They weren’t. They were low cost, low commitment, players. That’s where to start and stop and not read into that any more than that.
Rocky says they are expensive. I say they aren’t. I’ve already explained the thoughts behind that. I have still yet to give my opinion on it either way.
Just read what’s on the page. Some others seem to be struggling with that.
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Rocky said those two players were expensive adds. They weren’t. They were low cost, low commitment, players. That’s where to start and stop and not read into that any more than that.
Rocky says they are expensive. I say they aren’t. I’ve already explained the thoughts behind that. I have still yet to give my opinion on it either way.
I said no such things. I did say they make no sense and won't help the Cards postseason hope(lessness).
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Maybe go back and read the back and forth of that in the thread.
Just read what’s there. I never said it was good or bad.
Rocky said those two players were expensive adds. They weren’t. They were low cost, low commitment, players. That’s where to start and stop and not read into that any more than that.
Rocky says they are expensive. I say they aren’t. I’ve already explained the thoughts behind that. I have still yet to give my opinion on it either way.
Just read what’s on the page. Some others seem to be struggling with that.
Maybe our views are clouded by knowing you are a Cards fan. If the Brewers picked up 2 guys like that, I wouldn’t be talking about low cost and low risk (they are actually high risk to the team winning). I would be ranting about what an idiot Stearns was.
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One game. This got off the rails cuz CB gonna CB. Curtiss has been good all year, and ATL is fighting for its playoff lives.
No able to watch, no TV. Trying to make a joke. Sorry.
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Yes.
And Yes.
But I'm not sad. It's just sports/entertainment. As a cubs fan, I've been trying to offer you suggestions on how to deal with the fact the Cards have no chance this year. Cubs and Brewers fans can help you. Reach out if needed. We can help.
Actually I have asked for your specific suggestions many, many, many times in the exchange and you have yet to provide any. You keep posting and posting and posting without doing so.
One could play a drinking game counting how many times you have posted something vague and general and adding after that the Cardinals have no chance this year. It’s a bit strange. New post same thing regardless of anything else that’s in the post. New post same thing. You have added it to all of your posts obsessively.
I am not bothered in any way. I am all for any specific suggestions. I believe Fluffy mentioned Matt Carpenter. (He doesn’t have any trade value)
Despite the fact that only the Yankees in MLB have won more than the Cardinals, I don’t believe sports are only about winning the playoff championship or you are a loser.
I don’t believe all non Gold Medalists in the Olympics are “Losers.” Not even close.
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Actually I have asked for your specific suggestions many, many, many times in the exchange and you have yet to provide any. You keep posting and posting and posting without doing so.
And you've replied to every one of my posts. It's weird, almost like there's a forum here where we can all discuss things, but you seem to think only you can be "correct".
Again, feel free to reach out if you need any help dealing with your sports disappointments. It's ok. It happens to a lot of men.
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And you've replied to every one of my posts. It's weird, almost like there's a forum here where we can all discuss things, but you seem to think only you can be "correct".
Again, feel free to reach out if you need any help dealing with your sports disappointments. It's ok. It happens to a lot of men.
You said their trades were expensive when they weren’t. I gave specifics as to why they weren’t expensive
You suggested those trades were ‘t going to help their team. I never said they would or wouldn’t. I did ask what would you have specifically done instead.’, naming names. Seemed like a simple question at the time. Yet you still haven’t been able to answer it.
I’m all for suggestions, solutions, alternatives. I’ve asked you several times for them. That seems pretty open minded and open to suggestions.
I’m well aware I’ve been very fortunate and spoiled with sports in life, from playing, coaching, to fandom. For that I’m grateful. I think you are confusing and projecting your own previously mentioned disappointment.
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You said their trades were expensive when they weren’t. I gave specifics as to why they weren’t expensive
I did not. You did try to explain them as somehow the only thing that could be done. Which is not true.
You also seem to think it's my responsibility to google alternatives for your team - also not my job.
But letting you know that you're disagreeing (?) with me for nothing (or just to be disagreeable). That's definitely my job.
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I did not. You did try to explain them as somehow the only thing that could be done. Which is not true.
You also seem to think it's my responsibility to google alternatives for your team - also not my job.
But letting you know that you're disagreeing (?) with me for nothing (or just to be disagreeable). That's definitely my job.
“There are few things less productive in life than complaint without change.”
You said there were cheaper alternatives. It was pointed out to you by multiple people that these were low cost additions. Since you volunteered this vaguely, generally, I asked you to list some more specifically.
So let’s get this straight. You say there were cheaper options. Then when asked to name them, you don’t answer for numerous posts until you say it isn’t your job to name them. Lol.
If anyone is disagreeing to disagree, that’s be you based on the above.
You said you think all non Gold Medal Olympians are losers. I couldn’t disagree more with that. That isn’t me trying to be disagreeable. It’s not what I believe. It’s not even in the same stratosphere of what I believe.
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If anyone is disagreeing to disagree, that’s be you based on the above.
"That's be you". hah. Let's go back to my initial, and as you point out - only - and repetitive comment to your verbal diarrhea.
To eat innings for a non-contending team. Interesting strategy.
And yes. We're all losers. The degree of "loser" varies. If you don't win, you lose. But we'll give you a participation ribbon!
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SHHH. Don't send up the bat signal
(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/af/d7/2a/afd72aafb357102eb30d7439f88f58e2--superheroes-batman.jpg)
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(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/af/d7/2a/afd72aafb357102eb30d7439f88f58e2--superheroes-batman.jpg)
(https://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/batman5-465x677.jpg)
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Don't think anyone expected the Cubs and cards to be sub .500 teams this year.
Sub .500 teams? Depends on the projection system. No one expected either team to be particularly good.
That really doesn’t have anything to do about the point of the post - the Rays do a lot with very little.
And if your point is the NL Central is tougher than the AL East, it’s typically not.
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(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/af/d7/2a/afd72aafb357102eb30d7439f88f58e2--superheroes-batman.jpg)
You’ll be waiting a long time if you are waiting for me to scapegoat less supported places or things or people on this board to please an individual person or group.
I’ve lived in, and, have visited a lot of places.
When I talk about Texas I don’t see you posting photos bat signal photos of Buc-ee’s or H-E-B. I wonder why that is.
I get it. I do. Marquette wasn’t, and, unfortunately still isn’t the most geographically diverse student body compared to some other more National and International Schools. That increases the chances and likelihood of people Illinois and Wisconsin posters, which make up roughly three fourths of the student body.
Some fanatical people feel more secure when scapegoating the less supported thing, people, or place.
St. Louis has had a lot of sports success over the years, often at the expense of some of the more supported teams here. Therefore for a few to some, their team or city is a place to out down to try to lift themselves up. I get it I do. But that isn’t my thing.
In this particular example, the team in question isn’t even all that relevant. Another poster has posted the same thing many times. Clearly the actions of a particular team has bothered that poster enough to keep posting about it.
You’ve posted, many, many times back and forth long threads about an individual topic. Because that subject isn’t an often scapegoated, less supported subject, it will have a different effect.
Pick any random example. If the discussion is a place such as New York City or D.C. or L.A. it’s more positive back and forth crickets with a few dissenters.
Rocky’s posts seem to be less about wanting an actual specific discussion, and more about projecting his disappointment in the Cubs. That’s more of an issue for Rocky than me.
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You’ll be waiting a long time if you are waiting for me to scapegoat less supported places or things or people on this board to please an individual person or group.
I’ve lived in, and, have visited a lot of places.
When I talk about Texas I don’t see you posting photos bat signal photos of Buc-ee’s or H-E-B. I wonder why that is.
I get it. I do. Marquette wasn’t, and, unfortunately still isn’t the most geographically diverse student body compared to some other more National and International Schools. That increases the chances and likelihood of people Illinois and Wisconsin posters, which make up roughly three fourths of the student body.
Some fanatical people feel more secure when scapegoating the less supported thing, people, or place.
St. Louis has had a lot of sports success over the years, often at the expense of some of the more supported teams here. Therefore for a few to some, their team or city is a place to out down to try to lift themselves up. I get it I do. But that isn’t my thing.
In this particular example, the team in question isn’t even all that relevant. Another poster has posted the same thing many times. Clearly the actions of a particular team has bothered that poster enough to keep posting about it.
You’ve posted, many, many times back and forth long threads about an individual topic. Because that subject isn’t an often scapegoated, less supported subject, it will have a different effect.
Pick any random example. If the discussion is a place such as New York City or D.C. or L.A. it’s more positive back and forth crickets with a few dissenters.
Rocky’s posts seem to be less about wanting an actual specific discussion, and more about projecting his disappointment in the Cubs. That’s more of an issue for Rocky than me.
Oh FFS, are you kidding me?
I agree kinda agree with your initial point about what the Cardinals are doing and why they are doing it, but man you are insufferable.
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St Louis makes Cleveland look like a utopia.
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Are we counting vacated wins? "The Cardinal Way" boasts two of the biggest cheating (caught) alums in MLB history.
Oh, their pizza and beer also suck.
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"That's be you". hah. Let's go back to my initial, and as you point out - only - and repetitive comment to your verbal diarrhea.
And yes. We're all losers. The degree of "loser" varies. If you don't win, you lose. But we'll give you a participation ribbon!
Your posts seem to be more about projecting your Cubs disappointment than anything else.
I’m not disappointed. That’s what I don’t think you understand.
Mykala Skinner won Silver in Vault this morning. Tremendous.
You remind me of the reporter in the movie “The Natural.” Roy Hobbs asks the reporter, Gus, “Did you ever play ball Gus?” And Gus replies, “No, I never did.”
There is of course is a massive difference between a participation ribbon and calling people losers. But you are unable to see that.
We’re here because you haven’t been able to answer a simple sincere question. You said you would’t do this or that. Ok, sounds as though you have a good specific alternative. When asked you didn’t have one. In the end it was more about projecting your Cubs disappointment on to the team that has had a lot of success at their expense over the years, and less about adding to the actual topic. I took your initial post as matter of fact subject neutral. And that it would be followed up with try this or that etc…but that’s not what it was really about for you.
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St Louis makes Cleveland look like a utopia.
Right on time. Thanks for illustrating the point.
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Are we counting vacated
wins? "The Cardinal Way" boasts two of the biggest cheating (caught) alums in MLB history.
Oh, their pizza and beer also suck.
Right on time. Thanks for illustrating the point.
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Mykala Skinner won Silver in Vault this morning. Tremendous.
Yeah, but who won?
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Yeah, but who won?
Right on time. Thanks for illustrating the point.
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At least the length of post to say the same thing over and over has been truncated.
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At least the length of post to say the same thing over and over has been truncated.
You are the gift that keeps giving. Rocky said the same thing over and over, but crickets there.
Please keep posting and illustrating the point in a variety of different ways without even knowing it.
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(https://lwtc247.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/get-a-brain-morans.jpg)
He’s all riled up this morning.
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You’ll be waiting a long time if you are waiting for me to scapegoat less supported places or things or people on this board to please an individual person or group.
I’ve lived in, and, have visited a lot of places.
When I talk about Texas I don’t see you posting photos bat signal photos of Buc-ee’s or H-E-B. I wonder why that is.
Man, I was just catching up on this thread and saw the bat signal comment and thought it would be funny. I'm sure you speak about other places as well, but I'm sure you realize that you speak the most about St. Louis, hence the joke.
I don't think your St. Louis fandom is what rubs some people the wrong way. I think you could be exact same poster but do it about Milwaukee, Chicago, Miami, London, Timbuktu, and people would have similar reactions.
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I posted the "Apu takes a bullet" meme about shoothoops and Molina, but clearly it's the whole city of St. Louis that has earned vigilant protection.
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Your posts seem to be more about projecting your Cubs disappointment than anything else.
I’m not disappointed. That’s what I don’t think you understand.
Mykala Skinner won Silver in Vault this morning. Tremendous.
You remind me of the reporter in the movie “The Natural.” Roy Hobbs asks the reporter, Gus, “Did you ever play ball Gus?” And Gus replies, “No, I never did.”
There is of course is a massive difference between a participation ribbon and calling people losers. But you are unable to see that.
We’re here because you haven’t been able to answer a simple sincere question. You said you would’t do this or that. Ok, sounds as though you have a good specific alternative. When asked you didn’t have one. In the end it was more about projecting your Cubs disappointment on to the team that has had a lot of success at their expense over the years, and less about adding to the actual topic. I took your initial post as matter of fact subject neutral. And that it would be followed up with try this or that etc…but that’s not what it was really about for you.
Talk about projecting...
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Man, I was just catching up on this thread and saw the bat signal comment and thought it would be funny. I'm sure you speak about other places as well, but I'm sure you realize that you speak the most about St. Louis, hence the joke.
I don't think your St. Louis fandom is what rubs some people the wrong way. I think you could be exact same poster but do it about Milwaukee, Chicago, Miami, London, Timbuktu, and people would have similar reactions.
Nah. Your post illustrated the point about a less supported subject.
And, it isn’t St. Louis fandom as much as it is not saying frequent negative things about it.
I’ve posted neutral or positive about many places. The difference is some of those places are more supported by more people here, or they are often met with indifference.
But if I post anything short of negative scapegoating about St. Louis as a place, its sports teams, anything about it, the insecure knee jerk people come out seeking group support. That doesn’t really affect me or how I post.
I like St. Louis. It’s a great place. I’ve lived there. I also like many other places. And I have lived many other places. (NYC, DC, L.A., Milwaukee, Chicago and so on etc..let alone places visited) None of them are perfect places. There aren’t any of those. But I enjoy several aspects of each place.
When some of the NYC and CT people here talk places or pizza with me, we don’t seem to have this sort of an issue. I wonder why that is. I talk about Texas too. Wherever. Insert example here.
It’s pretty wild how threatened some people are by anything neutral (as was this example) or positive about St. Louis.
The same can be said for posting about other sports as well. The difference is there aren’t many posters that either scapegoat that sport or specific people in it on a regular basis
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Talk about projecting...
Nah. Your posts continue to be vague and generalized as opposed to being specific to the individual discussion.
It would have been a pretty short conversation if you had a specific suggestion. You didn’t and you still don’t. But I didn’t realize until later that your post was insincere and not really interested in an alternative solution.
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your post was insincere and not really interested in an alternative solution.
You make up things I don't say "Rocky says". You put me down because you don't like what I have to say. You blather on about things irrelevant to the conversation.
But yes, I'm the problem.
Should be an interesting end of to the baseball season.
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Nah. Your post illustrated the point about a less supported subject.
And, it isn’t St. Louis fandom as much as it is not saying frequent negative things about it.
I’ve posted neutral or positive about many places. The difference is some of those places are more supported by more people here, or they are often met with indifference.
But if I post anything short of negative scapegoating about St. Louis as a place, its sports teams, anything about it, the insecure knee jerk people come out seeking group support. That doesn’t really affect me or how I post.
I like St. Louis. It’s a great place. I’ve lived there. I also like many other places. And I have lived many other places. (NYC, DC, L.A., Milwaukee, Chicago and so on etc..let alone places visited) None of them are perfect places. There aren’t any of those. But I enjoy several aspects of each place.
When some of the NYC and CT people here talk places or pizza with me, we don’t seem to have this sort of an issue. I wonder why that is. I talk about Texas too. Wherever. Insert example here.
It’s pretty wild how threatened some people are by anything neutral (as was this example) or positive about St. Louis.
The same can be said for posting about other sports as well. The difference is there aren’t many posters that either scapegoat that sport or specific people in it on a regular basis
I really don't think think St. Louis has anything to do with it. I think this is in the same vein as the people who say "you just don't like me because of my political party".
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It's St. Louis, It's St. Louis!!!
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[...]
And, it isn’t St. Louis fandom as much as it is not saying frequent negative things about it.
I’ve posted neutral or positive about many places. The difference is some of those places are more supported by more people here, or they are often met with indifference.
[...]
Look, this is a fool's errand because you've made a pathos-commitment to whatever your whole St. Louis thing is here on this board, but people aren't reacting to St. Louis the place or even you defending/promoting St. Louis. You claim that you post "neutral or positive about many places," but only St. Louis-related issues cause you to write thousands of words in long extended threads engaging with people who dared level even the mildest of criticism toward the city or any of its cultural touchstones or sports teams.
I love Boston, and Chicago, and New York. But if someone were to write the way you write defending Southie, Bucktown, or Queens, I would laugh at the silly disproportionate response. That's what people are doing here and they know that all they have to do to send you "Even Herman Melville thinks you need to cool it with the word count" mode is criticize *anything* St. Louis related to any degree.
And so, having raged at the sun rising yet again in the East, I bid you farewell until the next time someone analyzes historic hitters and omits, for some reason or another, Stan Musial. Doubtless then you will appear where you are needed most, spilling three thousand words in defense of a hall of fame baseball player from the disrespect of people on the internet.
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I really don't think think St. Louis has anything to do with it. I think this is in the same vein as the people who say "you just don't like me because of my political party".
St. Louis is the example here because they have won a lot often at the expense of some other teams here that many people follow or support.
Fanaticism is a trait related to personality type and temperament. It includes a hero worship of some thing or some place or someone to feel more secure. Many cling tight to it, to feel more secure, and scapegoating less supported places or things comes with that to feel more secure. Just as there are good bad indifferent fans, good bad and indifferent aspects to any place, fanaticism only applies to some.
It isn’t a new phenomenon. We see it with vaccine compliance (or non compliance)
The example can be religion, politics, a sports team, a city, many things. We see examples on this board of it often.
In any example, anything short of putting the place or thing down to lift oneself up isn’t going to suffice for some of the tribe.
The conversations are often more positive, indifferent, shorter, when the subject isn’t a scapegoated person place or thing.
There are some here that dislike U Wisconsin or Notre Dame etc… all it would take is one person speaking about Notre Dame in any way that isn’t negative. And if hypothetically Marquette played Notre Dame more regularly in basketball in recent memory, there would be more of those conversations more often. (I’m counting on the inevitable ND sucks post from someone).
You’ll also notice that this happens less often here with people who don’t live in WI/IL, (two other places I enjoyed) or who don’t have those fandoms.
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What does the “we finished .500” trophy look like? Google Images shows nothing.
The same fan base used to brag about having the longest playoff streak in the NHL despite never even making the SC Finals because that was a greater accomplishment than actually winning a title. What do you expect?
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Cardinals suck
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Cardinals suck
Thank you.
The New York Mets are trying to go toe to toe with Scott Boras.
They have 1 hour and and 38 minutes left to sign Kumar Rocker.
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Brewers took 2 of 3 on the road against the Braves and are now 20 games over .500.
Edit: woof
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Brewers took 2 of 3 on the road against BBC the Braces and are now 20 games over .500.
Not sure if there’s an auto-correct going on here or if I missed a reference. Honestly, not sure which one I prefer.
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Brewers took 2 of 3 on the road against BBC the Braces and are now 20 games over .500.
Just keep winning series and they’ll have 2 weeks at the end of September for guys to get a little rest.
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Not sure if there’s an auto-correct going on here or if I missed a reference. Honestly, not sure which one I prefer.
LOL whoops!
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Mets Owner Steve Cohen’s thoughts after his team didn't sign Kumar Rocker:
“Education time - Baseball draft picks are worth up to 5x their slot value to clubs. I never shy away from investments that can make me that type of return.”
https://twitter.com/stevenacohen2/status/1421962862377963521?s=21
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Mets Owner Steve Cohen’s thoughts after his team didn't sign Kumar Rocker:
“Education time - Baseball draft picks are worth up to 5x their slot value to clubs. I never shy away from investments that can make me that type of return.”
https://twitter.com/stevenacohen2/status/1421962862377963521?s=21
Good point, Steve. Maybe we can pay our minor leaguers a living wage...
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Good point, Steve. Maybe we can pay our minor leaguers a living wage...
No need to start talking crazy.
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Mets Owner Steve Cohen’s thoughts after his team didn't sign Kumar Rocker:
“Education time - Baseball draft picks are worth up to 5x their slot value to clubs. I never shy away from investments that can make me that type of return.”
https://twitter.com/stevenacohen2/status/1421962862377963521?s=21
So were the Mets legitimately worried about Rocker's arm and that's why they weren't shelling out the big $$$?
To be honest, the risk is way higher on the player than it is the organization. Rocker will have to play independent ball somewhere next year and hope the arm problems aren't real. The Mets just get their draft pick back right?
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It’s just an unnecessary comment at an unnecessary time for Cohen to make. By all accounts Rocker is well liked on and off the field. If he wants to go back and forth with Boras that’s a bit different.
Even if the Mets thought they saw something other doctors didn’t, it still would have been a good investment.
In the past Boras has had clients go the Independent League. Rocker isn’t going back to school. He’s done and shown enough there. For now Rocker will work out until next year’s draft.
His college teammate Jack Leiter (signed) will attend classes at Vandy while doing a Texas Rangers throwing program. Vandy has a baseball building separate facility, locker room etc for its pro baseball players, that was started and donated in part by David Price.
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I get that the comment was unnecessary, but I don't know why it would have been a good investment if they had concerns. They get the pick back next year right?
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I get that the comment was unnecessary, but I don't know why it would have been a good investment if they had concerns. They get the pick back next year right?
They do.
The Mets were paying Rocker over slot. So they cannot use the money to pay Rocker, anywhere else. Next year’s 11th pick isn’t likely to have anywhere near that value.
it isn’t unprecedented. The Mets maneuvered to get Rocker. But they chose not to sign.
By rule, Mets get 11th pick next year and Rocker does not get to sign anywhere else. And he will re-enter next year’s draft.
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The Mets were paying Rocker over slot. So they cannot use the money to pay Rocker, anywhere else. Next year’s 11th pick isn’t likely to have anywhere near that value.
One thing I'm having trouble tracking - did the Mets ultimately offer Rocker a contract at all? I get that the plan was to sign him over slot, but once they found the issues with his arm (whatever they are and however real they are), did they offer him any deal, even at or below slot? It seems like they found the issues and then walked away. If so, that seems to be a real hole in the system if now Rocker has to go back and play in the independent league or whatever. Like, can you draft a guy you have no intention of signing and effectively take an entire year off his career?
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One thing I'm having trouble tracking - did the Mets ultimately offer Rocker a contract at all? I get that the plan was to sign him over slot, but once they found the issues with his arm (whatever they are and however real they are), did they offer him any deal, even at or below slot? It seems like they found the issues and then walked away. If so, that seems to be a real hole in the system if now Rocker has to go back and play in the independent league or whatever. Like, can you draft a guy you have no intention of signing and effectively take an entire year off his career?
It seems like the answer is "yes, a team can do this," but it begs the question: "why would they?" As in, where's the incentive to push a This Year pick into a Next Year compensatory pick one spot lower just to screw over some kid? The only thing I can think of is some next level 76ers Trust The Process thing taken way too far. But even then... even as the Mets owner said -- signing the pick has a great deal of value, so somehow the value from sabotage and hoarding compensatory picks needs to exceed the value of signing for it make sense... right?
Plus, I have no idea what the deal is with Rocker's health/arm, but the Mets at least have a plausible story as to why they did this. If there's ZERO health concerns and a team just decided to spike a top draft pick for whatever reason, that seems like it would have fallout among the players and agents, no?
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Rocker made 42 straight starts in his career at Vanderbilt. He often dominated the toughest league in college baseball. He helped lead his college team to a National Title, and a National Runner Up Finish. His coach is one of the highest respected coaches in college baseball, who has a very conservative approach to handling pitchers, injury etc..
The were going to Rocker $6 million at 10. By comparison, Rocker’s teammate Jack Leiter received just under $8 Million at pick 2 with Texas. The Mets went from $ 6 Million to zero.
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Yeah it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to draft a guy that high you aren't expecting to sign. It can't just be he wanted too much money and the Mets refused to pay it though right? I mean, it's still not a lot of money in the grand scheme of baseball.
By the way, the Red Sox didn't sign their top pick either and he went back to school.
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Yeah it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to draft a guy that high you aren't expecting to sign. It can't just be he wanted too much money and the Mets refused to pay it though right? I mean, it's still not a lot of money in the grand scheme of baseball.
By the way, the Red Sox didn't sign their top pick either and he went back to school.
The Red Sox signed their top pick. Their second round pick (40) did not sign and they will be compensated in next year's draft (41).
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The Red Sox signed their top pick. Their second round pick (40) did not sign and they will be compensated in next year's draft (41).
Ah thank you.
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John Axford is back on the Brewers. Party like it’s 2009.
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John Axford is back on the Brewers. Party like it’s 2009.
Next up....Derrick Turnbow
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Plus, I have no idea what the deal is with Rocker's health/arm, but the Mets at least have a plausible story as to why they did this. If there's ZERO health concerns and a team just decided to spike a top draft pick for whatever reason, that seems like it would have fallout among the players and agents, no?
Agreed - I don't think teams would do that to intentionally spite someone, but it seems pretty crapty that the Mets can use a pick on Rocker then decide they don't want to sign him and now he can't start his MLB career. I get that its only fair given that the system lets players decide not to play. But man does it seem unfair to the guy.
In other sports, you see players slip for injury concerns all the time. But I can't recall hearing of a team drafting a guy and then locking him out of their facility. You have to assume that if the Mets don't take Rocker there, someone else does later in the draft where the perceived risk is lower. That's why I was asking whether the Mets offered him a below slot deal or something. Can they trade his rights? I have to imagine someone would be willing to throw a couple million at him.
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The Red Sox signed their top pick. Their second round pick (40) did not sign and they will be compensated in next year's draft (41).
Jud Fabian. CF, Florida, very good defense, and, prior to this past season, a high average, line drive hitter. He was a preseason top 10 pick on a preseason number 1 type team. Both he and his team were down a bit for what was expected.
His average dropped 45 points, and his K rate went up a lot. He changed his approach to more of the increased HR power plus increase K’s that has been more common recently.
Fabian is betting on himself that he won’t do much worse draft wise next year, (likely better to much better if he can fix his offense a bit, 2 strike swing etc and approach) plus his team will be good, and, he gets to play with his incoming Freshman younger brother. He’s “only” 20 which is young for a Junior.
Typically, many/most top 3 round picks sign but of course not all. Middle rounds gets more mixed. If it is a veteran college player that thinks his draft range, $ etc isn’t going to improve much, they sign. Rocker had teammates leave in 4th round, 5th round picks. He also had teammates that were not picked until later, closer to 10th round etc that are returning to Vandy.
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He would have already had a seven figure value right? Isn't delaying your pro career for the sake of another million or so a pretty short-sighted decision?
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He would have already had a seven figure value right? Isn't delaying your pro career for the sake of another million or so a pretty short-sighted decision?
Yes. I suspect there were some legit concerns about Rockers arm, but Boras involvement probably is what really killed the chance of any deal.
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Yes. I suspect there were some legit concerns about Rockers arm, but Boras involvement probably is what really killed the chance of any deal.
Right. I am actually talking about Fabian and shoothoops statement that he is "betting on himself."
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John Axford is back on the Brewers. Party like it’s 2009.
I think it's a fantastic move by Stearns. Ax was injured for all of '19 and couldn't play minor league ball in '20. Was even in the Jay's broadcast booth at the start of this year. Then Team Canada called and his performance demonstrated that he still had something. Then the Jays signed him to AAA where at Buffalo he had an 0.84 ERA over 9 outings and 10+ innings of work topping out at 98.
So for the price of a bag of balls the Crew finds an eligible veteran reliever AFTER the 7/31 deadline who is seemingly bringing the heat, if only for the shortest of runs. Give me a half dozen innings Ax-man while the Covid plague passes. Absolutely brilliant.
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Right. I am actually talking about Fabian and shoothoops statement that he is "betting on himself."
Whoops. I didn't keep up. Nevermind then (though your comment applies to both, hah) .
So for the price of a bag of balls the Crew finds an eligible veteran reliever AFTER the 7/31 deadline who is seemingly bringing the heat, if only for the shortest of runs. Give me a half dozen innings Ax-man while the Covid plague passes. Absolutely brilliant.
Not possible, I've been assured by shoot that the cards made the best/cheapest move possible by getting Lester and Happ.
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He would have already had a seven figure value right? Isn't delaying your pro career for the sake of another million or so a pretty short-sighted decision?
Boston had less than $2 Million left to pay Fabian. Baltimore is reported to have been going to draft Fabian with the next pick and pay him $3 Million. Fabian was the youngest draft eligible player in the draft. He has 2 years of eligibility left if he wants it. (He will likely play one more year, play with his brother, and, increase his draft stock and $) He has some leverage.
There are so many stories and examples of the choices of MLB Prospects, MLB Teams, College Players. One size doesn’t fit all.
Jack Leiter would have likely been a 1st round pick out of high school, but, he was determined to go to Vandy. His dad never went to college. So they visited as a Freshman to learn about the highly respected pitching development program there, as well as the baseball culture there and how they blend in with the rest of their college life. Leiter wasn’t the biggest kid at the time. By the time Leiter reached his Junior year in high school, he was up to mid 80’s and eventually mid 90’s when reaching college.
This year, Jordan Lawlar, Vandy commit, 6th overall out of Dallas Jesuit, was not a sure thing to sign with Arizona Diamondbacks. He signed this past weekend for a little over $6.7 Million. But is was no slam dunk as he strongly considered Vandy. David Weathers’ son Ryan, a few years ago was also a Vandy commit that signed with San Diego Padres out of high school at 7th overall first round. Examples vary.
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Not possible, I've been assured by shoot that the cards made the best/cheapest move possible by getting Lester and Happ.
I betcha Ax-Man gets an inning tonight. I just hope he can keep his excitement level down as he hits 98 on the gun and the crowd roars. Can you imagine how he's feeling walking into the clubhouse, shaking hands with his long time friend and manager? Hell, he'd gladly play for nothing. I truly hope he succeeds.
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I betcha Ax-Man gets an inning tonight. I just hope he can keep his excitement level down as he hits 98 on the gun and the crowd roars. Can you imagine how he's feeling walking into the clubhouse, shaking hands with his long time friend and manager? Hell, he'd gladly play for nothing. I truly hope he succeeds.
We think him and Dillard have a comedy show post game? Maybe roast Counsell’s presser?
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We think him and Dillard have a comedy show post game? Maybe roast Counsell’s presser?
Absolutely. Tim is lining that up right now. But Ueck is getting the first crack at Couns asking if HE still has anything. ;D
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Whoops. I didn't keep up. Nevermind then (though your comment applies to both, hah) .
Not possible, I've been assured by shoot that the cards made the best/cheapest move possible by getting Lester and Happ.
This is the problem you made/started that we’d like to not have to repeat today. That’s up to you.
I never once said the Cardinals made the best possible move. I never once said they made the cheapest possible move.
I said the moves were low cost, low risk. I didn’t say whether or not the moves would help their team. As you kept posting and posting about it, I kept asking you to provide a specific better or alternative solution. That’s something you haven’t been able to do. I never said there was or wasn’t one. I asked you to name yours.
I did say that their team has used more than 10 starters, much due to injury. They hope to get back Flaherty, Mikolas, even Hudson etc..at some point. So they want to bridge a gap. Happ had an E.R.A. of 1.91 in his first 5 starts this season. Lester had a 5 start stretch at the beginning of June with a 2.55 E.R.A. They may or may not be able to deliver a small quantity of starts they are being asked to do at low cost, low risk. Many have understandably low expectations. (One if the players the Cardinals gave up is expected a big salary bump soon.)
As mentioned several times, their team decided the asking price was too high for some of their top prospects. Many people are commenting positively about how Minnesota was able to land couple of high level prospects in their recent trade. That was not a trade the Cardinals were willing to make. I believe they are 6 or so back of the wild card. I would have to check. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say they are non-contending, and then say why didn’t they trade a too prospect for a later season rental for a team less likely to contend.
Now this can be linked to prior to the season, which is considered a more valuable discussion, and one I had. That’s when you want to go back and understand where I felt the Cardinals lacked depth both in their rotation and lineup, both before and after adding Arenado. I’m sure there is even a related post here about it somewhere. Their team has placed a higher emphasis and draft and development over all else in recent memory. Well they didn’t add enough, and, their desired outfield has played few games together this season. And their rotation has had several injuries. They didn’t approach things like the Dodgers. It hasn’t been popular.
They are expected to return several players from injury for 2022. They are expected to promote prospects, and they are expected to make off season acquisitions. They would rather do this than blow up their team for years to come or trade top prospects for a less likely contending team. So, they are in the middle. When it’s brought up to them that they didn’t do enough this past off season to anticipate this possibility, as well as to capitalize off of what you do have, the answers fall flat, just as I and many others mentioned before the season started.
Stuck in neutral is both a solid band name, and, more of an unsual spot for their team. But, it is what it is.
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https://twitter.com/katiejwoo/status/1422239235541770245?s=21
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You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say they are non-contending, and then say why didn’t they trade a too prospect for a later season rental for a team less likely to contend.
OK shoot. I get it, and I'll leave you alone about it. But I do 100% believe they are non-contending, which is to say there's not a single (or multiple) moves they could have made to make the team contending (unless they could aquire the entire Dodgers organization). So, the move they made is silly to me. I'll go back to this, and update that I think they can only lose 5 more games to sub .500 clubs now...
Sorry, it's not *really* hyperbole. By my count, the Cards have 29 games left against .500+ squads, so we can fairly safely assume they lose at least 14 of those. That gives them maybe 6 losses in the other 30 games to make the playoffs. 5 if they don't come back today.
edit: Oh, and I don't think they play another .500+ team until the crew on Aug 17, so yeah, they'll lose 6 before then.
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OK shoot. I get it, and I'll leave you alone about it. But I do 100% believe they are non-contending, which is to say there's not a single (or multiple) moves they could have made to make the team contending (unless they could aquire the entire Dodgers organization). So, the move they made is silly to me. I'll go back to this, and update that I think they can only lose 5 more games to sub .500 clubs now...
We can go back and count all of your posts that end with they aren’t a contending team. Perhaps you keep repeating that because it’s unusual for their franchise. No one else here ever said they were or weren’t including me.
I’ve kindly and patiently attempted to explain to you many times in many ways their situation, and what they are doing, why, how, etc…and even how they got there in the first place.
You seem more interested in this than (checks notes to keep track of what team) oh you said you were a Cubs fan.
And specifics still seem to elude you.
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https://twitter.com/katiejwoo/status/1422239235541770245?s=21
Katie has always had a good sense of humor. Did you happen to read the first reply to her tweet? Well look right here, it’s from Katie herself, and, she was kind of enough to provide link to the article that explains why they made those trades.
Here ya go:
https://twitter.com/katiejwoo/status/1422240785664249860?s=21
I sometimes to forget to ask posters the question, Cubs or Brewers? Maybe just put in your posts to make it easier, thanks.
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Katie has always had a good sense of humor. Did you happen to read the first reply to her tweet? Well look right here, it’s from Katie herself, and, she was kind of enough to provide link to the article that explains why they made those trades.
Here ya go:
https://twitter.com/katiejwoo/status/1422240785664249860?s=21
You must be a fun guy to hang out with.
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You must be a fun guy to hang out with.
I am.
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And specifics still seem to elude you.
So you won't say that they aren't contending. And you won't say that they are contending. And you'll explain why they made a move because they think the could possibly be contending. And that the organization will always try to contend. But you won't state an opinion. But you will argue why my position is dumb.
I don't think I'm the one lost on specifics.
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Cardinals fun are a funny bunch.
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You seem more interested in this than (checks notes to keep track of what team) oh you said you were a Cubs fan.
Hearing about losers isn't particularly of interest to most in this thread. But I'll throw a few things out since you asked.
What's happening with Rafael Ortega is incredible right now. I doubt he keeps it up, and unlikely he gets a roster spot next year. But if he does keep it up, that's amazing.
In the end, super impressed with what the Cubs got for some rental players. Based on what I see in the NL central, they're fairly well positioned for so .500ish year next year, pending offseason moves. And lots of talent in the pipe for 2024, 2025.
But honestly, we should all just be happy for the crew this year., They're getting it done, even if a WS title is a long shot.
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So you won't say that they aren't contending. And you won't say that they are contending. And you'll explain why they made a move because they think the could possibly be contending. And that the organization will always try to contend. But you won't state an opinion. But you will argue why my position is dumb.
I don't think I'm the one lost on specifics.
You brought up the topic. I didn’t. You said there were less expensive/cheaper alternative moves. I said, well, cost wasn’t an issue as they were low cost moves. (and provided that info)
You kept posting. So in response to your initial and subsequent posts I asked a simple question, what would you have specifically done instead considering their circumstances and situation. It wasn’t a trick question. Seems like a logical question to ask since you not only brought it up, you kept bringing it up over and over.
All you had to do was say, “Well I would do this with xyz and that with abc etc…” any specific thing. That’s it. I would have possibly replied with a specific reply as to it. I’m not the one who brought (brings it up). They did what they did. I explained why. I can’t offer an opinion of your alternative if you don’t provide one.
Both before the season as well as the past few days I have referenced their off season what they had and didn’t needed and didn’t prior to this season, as well as other things going on with their team then and now, etc..good, bad, indifferent, well as some things.
Their approach (clearly explained several times by now) clearly bothers you enough to keep posting about it over and over again. Since you aren’t interested in a specific discussion, I’m not sure what else can be added productively.
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Hearing about losers isn't particularly of interest to most in this thread. But I'll throw a few things out since you asked.
What's happening with Rafael Ortega is incredible right now. I doubt he keeps it up, and unlikely he gets a roster spot next year. But if he does keep it up, that's amazing.
In the end, super impressed with what the Cubs got for some rental players. Based on what I see in the NL central, they're fairly well positioned for so .500ish year next year, pending offseason moves. And lots of talent in the pipe for 2024, 2025.
But honestly, we should all just be happy for the crew this year., They're getting it done, even if a WS title is a long shot.
That’s great. Still a bit vague and generalized, but that’s great. But this isn’t what you posted about over and over again. You posted about two Cardinal players. The topic originally was cost of the players which I answered specifically. (Lester’s money is mostly a Nationals paid signing bonus. The Twins are paying Stl cash to take Happ.)
Again with the losers thing. as I’ve said, I’ve been very fortunate from playing, coaching, and a from fan standpoint in sports. Take the Cardinals for example, I’m sure their team, organization, fans etc would like to win every game every year. But I’m sure they would also say they’ve done okay.
There’s so much more to the Olympics than whomever wins the gold medal. The athletes that don’t win one aren’t losers.
Did you see the video of the two high jumpers choosing to share the Gold Medal instead of a tie breaking jump? Qatar and Italy?
https://twitter.com/nbcolympics/status/1421923479805386756?s=21
And it doesn’t just have to be the Olympics.
How can you not be thrilled for Brandon Nakashima this weekend? 89th in the World EIGHTY-NINE. Tremendous. Back to back ATP Tourney Finals Runner Up. Wish him a happy birthday tomorrow. He turns 20.
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Keefer would have a field day with some HR departments if he was following this thread.
Where is that guy, anyway?
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Cardinals fun are a funny bunch.
I have a certain perception of Cardinals fans. I enjoy encounters that reinforce that perception.
ETA: Brewers
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Katie has always had a good sense of humor. Did you happen to read the first reply to her tweet? Well look right here, it’s from Katie herself, and, she was kind of enough to provide link to the article that explains why they made those trades.
Here ya go:
https://twitter.com/katiejwoo/status/1422240785664249860?s=21
I sometimes to forget to ask posters the question, Cubs or Brewers? Maybe just put in your posts to make it easier, thanks.
Luckily for the rest of the world, Cardinals fans make it easy to identify them
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I have a certain perception of Cardinals fans. I enjoy encounters that reinforce that perception.
ETA: Brewers
EXCUSE ME!!!!!!
Here's reality -- Cardinal fans expect to win. 12 World Series and a boatload of NL pennants get ya a little spoiled. The "blow the roster up" move that the Cubs made this week would never be tolerated in St. Louis. Ever.
As to Brother Shoot's comments, the probability this year's Cardinal team makes the playoffs is about the same as me making an NBA roster this fall -- 0. They're just not going to do it, so as Brother Shoot pointed out, why blow up some young prospects for a very, very long shot chance at facing Los Angeles in a winner-take-all playoff. Add to that that the Cardinals were burned trading Luke Voit to New York, Sandy Alcantara to Miami or Randy Arozarena to Tampa Bay and you have a conservative, stand-pat management.
The Cardinals had a lot of injuries this year. That's part of the game and it's on management to have a strong enough roster to compensate. In 1967 (ancient history, I know, but significant), Bob Gibson went down with a hairline fracture of his right leg due to a line drive by Roberto Clemente. A young Steve Carlton, Nelson Briles and Dick Hughes picked up and carried the team until late August, when Gibson returned. That did not happen this year when Flaherty and Dakota Hudson went down, so the Cardinals never got off the ground.
I'm happy for the Brewers and their fans. Good franchise, down-to-earth good baseball fans. I'm always welcome in red when I visit CouMilAmFam Park. They're knowledgeable and fun to be around.
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Again I don't think the last three pages of this thread about the Cards' deadline moves (or lack of moves) would exist if it weren't for the fact that one person drops massive walls of text to defend those moves.
Honestly, if it were "odds of making the playoffs are zero, they don't do the full tear down thing, they have good prospects and there's no need to pull a Marlins so they held pat" everyone would be like "yep, sounds about right."
But since the teeniest, tiniest, tweak of the cardinal beak sends one person into murder mode, surprise surprise people tweak him.
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Again I don't think the last three pages of this thread about the Cards' deadline moves (or lack of moves) would exist if it weren't for the fact that one person drops massive walls of text to defend those moves.
Honestly, if it were "odds of making the playoffs are zero, they don't do the full tear down thing, they have good prospects and there's no need to pull a Marlins so they held pat" everyone would be like "yep, sounds about right."
But since the teeniest, tiniest, tweak of the cardinal beak sends one person into CHICO'Smode, surprise surprise people tweak him.
fify
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On the "hopefully Axford eats a couple innings during the Covid outbreak" front... well Hader just landed on the Covid list.
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Again I don't think the last three pages of this thread about the Cards' deadline moves (or lack of moves) would exist if it weren't for the fact that one person drops massive walls of text to defend those moves.
Honestly, if it were "odds of making the playoffs are zero, they don't do the full tear down thing, they have good prospects and there's no need to pull a Marlins so they held pat" everyone would be like "yep, sounds about right."
But since the teeniest, tiniest, tweak of the cardinal beak sends one person into murder mode, surprise surprise people tweak him.
But I didn’t defend their moves. I explained their specific moves to someone else who brought that up specifically first. There’s a difference. Some others understood them. And I even asked for specific alternative suggestions. I also referenced their off season before this season even started let alone the past few days.
Some people see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear to reinforce their previously established opinions. Often times these are fanatics or fanatical people which I previously spoke about.
Every team has good, bad, indifferent fans. Every city has good, bad, and indifferent aspects to it.
Ask yourself how many times you or some of the other like posters, post either positively or neutrally about St. Louis as a place, or one of its sports teams?
Clearly Chicago and Milwaukee, two other places I have live and spent time have good, bad, and indifferent aspects to their cities. And they have good, bad, and indifferent sports teams. I’m happy to discuss what I believe are some positive aspects of these places with anyone any time.
I post about many other places and things too. But there are two big differences:
1) Lots of other people also post about say…New York City or somewhere else I’ve lived or spent time. Many others others can and do provide back and forth discussion. This allows for more posts from various people, or not even needing to post if someone else is covering a topic. And much of those posts by all parties about a particular place are either neutral or positive. There are plenty of people here that can and do post about Milwaukee or Chicago for example.
2) Those get noticed less or have less polarizing reaction or long term traction because they are often not about either the tribal groups locales or, those they scapegoat.
Some people here have been scapegoating St. Louis as a place or its sports teams long before I ever cane here. What’s changed is having a poster that doesn’t do that. (just as I don’t about anywhere else)
I’ve seen the negative, critical posts. Where are yours and others positive and neutral posts about St. Louis as a place or its teams? I’ll wait.
When the discussion is about other professional sports or the Olympics or Nashville or L.A. or NYC or wherever the discussion is decidedly different. I wonder why that is. Anything short of being critical of St. Louis as a place isn’t going to be good enough for the fanatical tribe that scapegoats less supported groups. Some people don’t like being called out on it. Not hating St. Louis as a place or their sports teams, seems to bother some people a lot. That’s really not a me problem.
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But I didn’t defend their moves. I explained their specific moves to someone else who brought that up specifically first. There’s a difference. Some others understood them. And I even asked for specific alternative suggestions. I also referenced their off season before this season even started let alone the past few days.
Some people see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear to reinforce their previously established opinions. Often times these are fanatics or fanatical people which I previously spoke about.
Every team has good, bad, indifferent fans. Every city has good, bad, and indifferent aspects to it.
Ask yourself how many times you or some of the other like posters, post either positively or neutrally about St. Louis as a place, or one of its sports teams?
Clearly Chicago and Milwaukee, two other places I have live and spent time have good, bad, and indifferent aspects to their cities. And they have good, bad, and indifferent sports teams. I’m happy to discuss what I believe are some positive aspects of these places with anyone any time.
I post about many other places and things too. But there are two big differences:
1) Lots of other people also post about say…New York City or somewhere else I’ve lived or spent time. Many others others can and do provide back and forth discussion. This allows for more posts from various people, or not even needing to post if someone else is covering a topic. And much of those posts by all parties about a particular place are either neutral or positive. There are plenty of people here that can and do post about Milwaukee or Chicago for example.
2) Those get noticed less or have less polarizing reaction or long term traction because they are often not about either the tribal groups locales or, those they scapegoat.
Some people here have been scapegoating St. Louis as a place or its sports teams long before I ever cane here. What’s changed is having a poster that doesn’t do that. (just as I don’t about anywhere else)
I’ve seen the negative, critical posts. Where are yours and others positive and neutral posts about St. Louis as a place or its teams? I’ll wait.
When the discussion is about other professional sports or the Olympics or Nashville or L.A. or NYC or wherever the discussion is decidedly different. I wonder why that is. Anything short of being critical of St. Louis as a place isn’t going to be good enough for the fanatical tribe that scapegoats less supported groups. Some people don’t like being called out on it. Not hating St. Louis as a place or their sports teams, seems to bother some people a lot. That’s really not a me problem.
🙄
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Luckily for the rest of the world, Cardinals fans make it easy to identify them
They are all the same too.
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I agree that it is different when St. Louis is discussed than when other cities are discussed on Scoop. What could that difference be? I feel like it should be obvious.
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I agree that it is different when St. Louis is discussed than when other cities are discussed on Scoop. What could that difference be? Is it possible that it's the only city that has a poster willing to deflect every slight, real or perceived, aimed at said city or its occupants?
I’d say it’s half that and the makeup of this board being mostly Cubs and Brewers fans. I’m sure the SLU board makes fun of Milwaukee for inferior beer and fans that weirdly cling to a second place team from 1982. It’s kind of the nature of being a fan.
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I agree that it is different when St. Louis is discussed than when other cities are discussed on Scoop. What could that difference be? Is it possible that it's the only city that has a poster willing to deflect every slight, real or perceived, aimed at said city or its occupants?
This has been going on long before I ever arrived. How could that be if it was because of me? Difficult to explain that one. Every place I’ve ever lived or been has had good bad and indifferent aspects to it. Every team has had good, bad, indifferent fans.
It’s pretty interesting when every post is negative. One would imagine there would be a mix and balance of good, bad, indifferent posts from posters.
The current example is a good one. I spoke in neutral fashion to respond to someone else. That isn’t feeling slighted or defending. That’s you seeing what you want to see because the response wasn’t apparently negative enough to go along with the crowd.
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This has been going on long before I ever arrived. How could that be if it was because of me? Difficult to explain that one.
It's actually easy to explain. It's not true.
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But I didn’t defend their moves. I explained their specific moves to someone else who brought that up specifically first. There’s a difference. Some others understood them. And I even asked for specific alternative suggestions. I also referenced their off season before this season even started let alone the past few days.
Some people see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear to reinforce their previously established opinions. Often times these are fanatics or fanatical people which I previously spoke about.
Every team has good, bad, indifferent fans. Every city has good, bad, and indifferent aspects to it.
Ask yourself how many times you or some of the other like posters, post either positively or neutrally about St. Louis as a place, or one of its sports teams?
Clearly Chicago and Milwaukee, two other places I have live and spent time have good, bad, and indifferent aspects to their cities. And they have good, bad, and indifferent sports teams. I’m happy to discuss what I believe are some positive aspects of these places with anyone any time.
I post about many other places and things too. But there are two big differences:
1) Lots of other people also post about say…New York City or somewhere else I’ve lived or spent time. Many others others can and do provide back and forth discussion. This allows for more posts from various people, or not even needing to post if someone else is covering a topic. And much of those posts by all parties about a particular place are either neutral or positive. There are plenty of people here that can and do post about Milwaukee or Chicago for example.
2) Those get noticed less or have less polarizing reaction or long term traction because they are often not about either the tribal groups locales or, those they scapegoat.
Some people here have been scapegoating St. Louis as a place or its sports teams long before I ever cane here. What’s changed is having a poster that doesn’t do that. (just as I don’t about anywhere else)
I’ve seen the negative, critical posts. Where are yours and others positive and neutral posts about St. Louis as a place or its teams? I’ll wait.
When the discussion is about other professional sports or the Olympics or Nashville or L.A. or NYC or wherever the discussion is decidedly different. I wonder why that is. Anything short of being critical of St. Louis as a place isn’t going to be good enough for the fanatical tribe that scapegoats less supported groups. Some people don’t like being called out on it. Not hating St. Louis as a place or their sports teams, seems to bother some people a lot. That’s really not a me problem.
Buddy, you prove the point over, and over, and over again. It's honestly amazing.
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It's actually easy to explain. It's not true.
Yep.
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I’d say it’s half that and the makeup of this board being mostly Cubs and Brewers fans. I’m sure the SLU board makes fun of Milwaukee for inferior beer and fans that weirdly cling to a second place team from 1982. It’s kind of the nature of being a fan.
Part of it is some people have a tendency to say some things, and, to say them in certain way, in a place such as here, that perhaps they wouldn’t say the same way elsewhere.
I have some friends who may say strong or harsh things somewhere like here about a team or place maybe even St. Louis. (Let’s say they are Cubs or Brewers fans) But they might not say those things in person to either those same people or others (unless they knew them or were friends with them and felt comfortable doing so).
I don’t really do all that. I actually like Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Louis, many other places. I don’t get a lot of posts aimed my way here about Milwaukee or Chicago. And there are plenty of people here that can and do cover those topics. It’s like threads, some I read, many I skip over, some I read and comment, some I read only, if I don’t think or feel I have anything to add.
And, I don’t really dislike a lot of places or teams. I’m pretty indifferent at worst. I just don’t have vitriol for Madison or Notre Dame. It just isn’t my thing. I can enjoy the games and rivalries just fine. I can want MUBB to win every time. But that’s as far as it goes often times.
If people pay attention I mention in threads the places to see or things to do or places to eat that I like in Milwaukee or Chicago. And I also point out things that can be improved with a St. Louis sports team or place.
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It's actually easy to explain. It's not true.
Nah. People didn’t all of a sudden decide to dislike a city and its sports teams as a group because of me. To use Cheebs09’s post example, he referenced 1982. I wasn’t here in 1982.
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Nah. People didn’t all of a sudden decide to dislike a city and its sports teams as a group because of me. To use Cheebs09’s post example, he referenced 1982. I wasn’t here in 1982.
I never said that. Of course people on this site dislike cities and their sports teams and make comments about them, both fair and unfair. It's just not unique to St. Louis.
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On the "hopefully Axford eats a couple innings during the Covid outbreak" front... well Hader just landed on the Covid list.
I have been leading my roto fantasy league by a hair for months. I have the RP trio of I. Kennedy (who was traded to PHI but should still get at least as many saves as we would’ve in TEX) Barnes in BOS, and Kimbrel.
I just dropped my “streaming” SP to pick up Devin Williams, who will hopefully get saves the next 10 days or so.
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I never said that. Of course people on this site dislike cities and their sports teams and make comments about them, both fair and unfair. It's just not unique to St. Louis.
Gotcha. I think there is a misunderstanding as to what I said or meant. Perhaps I wasn’t clear. I am saying that when I do see comments about St. Louis, they don’t seem to be balanced between neutral, negative, positive from some to many.
I’ll give you an example. Dgies is a Cards fan. And sometimes he will post about the Cardinals before a season saying they will go 162-0 or whatever. If and when I’ve seen that (you can go look) I point out that he may be over optimistic and that they might need to add this or that, or that they don’t have enough this or that. etc…
His post in the example was a positive post. My reply wasn’t as positive. This has happened before multiple times.
Or, someone could post more neutral and there would be a wide range back and forth constructive discussion that eventually fizzles out.
If an initial post is negative every time or close to it, it has less of a chance to be a positive, neutral, negative balance of any kind.
It’s really less about St. Louis than it is about less supported groups places people or things.
There are many Cubs and Brewers fans here. It’s a pretty high percentage here. As I said I’ve lived in all 3 places. It’s not the first time I have seen this. There are good bad and indifferent Cardinals fans just as there are good bad and indifferent Cubs and Brewers fans.
This doesn’t come up as often (or at all) when I am in New York City or L.A. And I am sure if any of these Cubs or Cardinals fans lived in St. Louis, I’m sure it would be a bit different for some of them.
I’m not going to either start threads or make posts speaking negatively 100% of the time or close to it about a place or team in Milwaukee or Chicago, just as I wouldn’t with St. Louis. It’s as though some people can dish it out but not take the fact I’m not going to do that about any of them.
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Dude. Time to give it a rest.
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The Cardinals acquired two well-known aging pitchers to keep the fan base interested in a losing season.
Full stop.
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Fans criticize other teams/cities all the time. Most fans can handle criticism by other fans. Most fans can also self-reflect on their own teams/cities honestly, at least a little.
St. Louis fans on the other hand....well, just look at the last several pages.
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The Cardinals acquired two well-known aging pitchers to keep the fan base interested in a losing season.
Full stop.
Nah. Much of their fan base is well aware that those two are struggling aging pitchers who have had past career success. That isn’t going to keep their fan base happy.
When only one other team has won more than you, expectations are often a bit higher than that. Winning and having success is what will keep their fan base interested (or not). If they they field competitive teams that have consistent success, they will keep selling tickets and getting television ratings. If they become less competitive more often, that will change, especially weeknight games. (It’s still a thing like it is some other places for people to travel to Stl for a summer Cards game) No team is immune to that.
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Q: How many St Louis Cardinal fans does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: 30. 1 to screw it in and 29 to reminisce about what a wonderful experience it was.
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Q: How many St Louis Cardinal fans does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: 30. 1 to screw it in and 29 to reminisce about what a wonderful experience it was.
There is only one Cards fan, Dgies. Shoot is a purely impartial consumer of baseball and the Cardinals. He has no irrational or emotional investment in them or the St Louis metro at all. The rest of us are the slanted simpletons.
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Nah. Much of their fan base is well aware that those two are struggling aging pitchers who have had past career success. That isn’t going to keep their fan base happy.
When only one other team has won more than you, expectations are often a bit higher than that. Winning and having success is what will keep their fan base interested (or not). If they they field competitive teams that have consistent success, they will keep selling tickets and getting television ratings. If they become less competitive more often, that will change, especially weeknight games. (It’s still a thing like it is some other places for people to travel to Stl for a summer Cards game) No team is immune to that.
Too easy.
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Fans criticize other teams/cities all the time. Most fans can handle criticism by other fans. Most fans can also self-reflect on their own teams/cities honestly, at least a little.
St. Louis fans on the other hand....well, just look at the last several pages.
How many positive or neutral posts have you posted about St. Louis? Other posters? You aren’t likely to get a balanced view if all of the posts are negative.
In order to have a balanced conversation and view there needs to be positive and neutral posts about a subject by more than one poster.
Take the pizza example. (This one irrationally bothers some people) When asked I say it’s pizza, I like all pizza.
Then I say I prefer NYC style pizza, and then New Haven after that. But that doesn’t mean I don’t also like or eat other types too.
When in Chicago and not eating. Brooklyn Paulie Gee’s in Logan Square or Piece in Wicker Park or wherever or whatever, I prefer Southside tavern style pizza in Chicago, or Pequod’s to other extreme vs say a Lou Malnati’s or some others that I prefer less often but would also have. I don’t know anyone in Chicago that exclusively eats deep dish pizza. If that topic progressed to St. Louis pizza, I would mention the non St. Louis style pizza places I prefer first, but, I would also add that I like and eat St. Louis style pizza, even the provel kind. It’s fine. In Milwaukee I was more of a Zaffiro’s person by choice, Pizza Shuttle by convenience or whatever the case may be. And so on.
It is what it is. A balanced conversation takes more than one person having a balanced view on a subject.
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Hader couldn't plan his positive test during the month we couldn't give him a save situation?
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Dude. Time to give it a rest.
I think you have me confused with several other posters.
I’m sure others can make a list better than me of who they are:
1) Cubs fan
2) Brewers fan
3) Something else that just wants the thread back.
Quite a few 1’s and 2’s in there. Those are the ones that post more frequently about it.
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How many positive or neutral posts have you posted about St. Louis? Other posters? You aren’t likely to get a balanced view if all of the posts are negative.
In order to have a balanced conversation and view there needs to be positive and neutral posts about a subject by more than one poster.
Take the pizza example. (This one irrationally bothers some people) When asked I say it’s pizza, I like all pizza.
Then I say I prefer NYC style pizza, and then New Haven after that. But that doesn’t mean I don’t also like or eat other types too.
When in Chicago and not eating. Brooklyn Paulie Gee’s in Logan Square or Piece in Wicker Park or wherever or whatever, I prefer Southside tavern style pizza in Chicago, or Pequod’s to other extreme vs say a Lou Malnati’s or some others that I prefer less often but would also have. I don’t know anyone in Chicago that exclusively eats deep dish pizza. If that topic progressed to St. Louis pizza, I would mention the non St. Louis style pizza places I prefer first, but, I would also add that I like and eat St. Louis style pizza, even the provel kind. It’s fine. In Milwaukee I was more of a Zaffiro’s person by choice, Pizza Shuttle by convenience or whatever the case may be. And so on.
It is what it is. A balanced conversation takes more than one person having a balanced view on a subject.
Your inability to separate "hey everyone troll the weirdo who has written a novella about the perceived lack of impartiality of Cubs and Brewers fans on muscoop while fiercely and in exhaustive detail defending every last minute bit of St. Louis and Cardinals culture and history" and "troll the city of St. Louis and the Cardinals because St. Louis and the Cardinals suck" is truly baffling.
Are you honestly incapable of seeing that even if the people you're engaging with don't like St. Louis and don't like the Cardinals, that precisely zero percent of the crap sent in that direction *on this message board* has anything to do with St. Louis or the Cardinals and 100% to do with trolling you?
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Your inability to separate "hey everyone troll the weirdo who has written a novella about the perceived lack of impartiality of Cubs and Brewers fans on muscoop while fiercely and in exhaustive detail defending every last minute bit of St. Louis and Cardinals culture and history" and "troll the city of St. Louis and the Cardinals because St. Louis and the Cardinals suck" is truly baffling.
Are you honestly incapable of seeing that even if the people you're engaging with don't like St. Louis and don't like the Cardinals, that precisely zero percent of the crap sent in that direction *on this message board* has anything to do with St. Louis or the Cardinals and 100% to do with trolling you?
Nah. People didn’t just develop their fanaticism personality/temperament because of me. And, they didn’t use it with St. Louis as a place or with its sports teams only because of my posts. Nah those people already had that, and, rhey have it outside of the board too. There’s a pretty decent chance you are either a Cubs or Brewers fan.
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Nah. People didn’t just develop their fanaticism personality/temperament because of me. And, they didn’t use it with St. Louis as a place or with its sports teams only because of my posts. Nah those people already had that, and, rhey have it outside of the board too. There’s a pretty decent chance you are either a Cubs or Brewers fan.
You're right of course, nobody is basing their IRL choices and fandom on trolling you. But literally every St. Louis-related post in this thread is dedicated to trolling you. I know this because I'm not oblivious to reality. I know this because I've observed you drop 500 words asking other posters what positive or negative things they've said about St. Louis over, and over, and over again. I know this because all I have to do is say something like "Jorge Posada was better than Yadier Molina" and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you've got 1500 words ready to go to make certain that no random person on the internet dare impugn Molina's honor like that.
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And, they didn’t use it with St. Louis as a place or with its sports teams only because of my posts.
I know I could never convince the great shoothoops this, but my Lester an Happ comments actually had (and still have) nothing to do with St Louis.
They do have everything to do with ANY non contending team that traded anything away for Lester and Happ.
But , the great shoothoops is too unbiased to ever see that. Clearly it's a swipe at STL.
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You're right of course, nobody is basing their IRL choices and fandom on trolling you. But literally every St. Louis-related post in this thread is dedicated to trolling you. I know this because I'm not oblivious to reality. I know this because I've observed you drop 500 words asking other posters what positive or negative things they've said about St. Louis over, and over, and over again. I know this because all I have to do is say something like "Jorge Posada was better than Yadier Molina" and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you've got 1500 words ready to go to make certain that no random person on the internet dare impugn Molina's honor like that.
Posada was better. Count the rings
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You're right of course, nobody is basing their IRL choices and fandom on trolling you. But literally every St. Louis-related post in this thread is dedicated to trolling you. I know this because I'm not oblivious to reality. I know this because I've observed you drop 500 words asking other posters what positive or negative things they've said about St. Louis over, and over, and over again. I know this because all I have to do is say something like "Jorge Posada was better than Yadier Molina" and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you've got 1500 words ready to go to make certain that no random person on the internet dare impugn Molina's honor like that.
Lower career WAR than Jason Kendall.
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How many positive or neutral posts have you posted about St. Louis? Other posters? You aren’t likely to get a balanced view if all of the posts are negative.
In order to have a balanced conversation and view there needs to be positive and neutral posts about a subject by more than one poster.
Take the pizza example. (This one irrationally bothers some people) When asked I say it’s pizza, I like all pizza.
Then I say I prefer NYC style pizza, and then New Haven after that. But that doesn’t mean I don’t also like or eat other types too.
When in Chicago and not eating. Brooklyn Paulie Gee’s in Logan Square or Piece in Wicker Park or wherever or whatever, I prefer Southside tavern style pizza in Chicago, or Pequod’s to other extreme vs say a Lou Malnati’s or some others that I prefer less often but would also have. I don’t know anyone in Chicago that exclusively eats deep dish pizza. If that topic progressed to St. Louis pizza, I would mention the non St. Louis style pizza places I prefer first, but, I would also add that I like and eat St. Louis style pizza, even the provel kind. It’s fine. In Milwaukee I was more of a Zaffiro’s person by choice, Pizza Shuttle by convenience or whatever the case may be. And so on.
It is what it is. A balanced conversation takes more than one person having a balanced view on a subject.
Ya...no.
But thanks for proving my point.
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Unsurprising that Hader wasn't vaccinated.
Escobar has been a solid pickup.
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Escobar has been a solid pickup.
;D
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Unsurprising that Hader wasn't vaccinated.
Escobar has been a solid pickup.
Was that confirmed? I know they announced that Yelich was but was a breakthrough.
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Was that confirmed? I know they announced that Yelich was but was a breakthrough.
Not "confirmed". But Counsell in the past has announced when breakthrough infections have occurred. He confirmed that Yelich, Cousins and (I think) Strickland were vaccinated. When asked about Hader (and Burnes) he said that he couldn't discuss it.
https://twitter.com/Haudricourt/status/1422316793813667845
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Roger that. Decent context clues for the conclusion.
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Oops. At least Lester came cheap.
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Oops. At least Lester came cheap.
He just needs to learn The Way.
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I just saw that the Brewers' pitcher tonight has a no hitter through 6 innings. Are they good enough to have a puncher's chance in the playoffs?
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I just saw that the Brewers' pitcher tonight has a no hitter through 6 innings. Are they good enough to have a puncher's chance in the playoffs?
Jesus H muggsy. STFU. It's happened once in Crew history. Know the rules.
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Jesus H muggsy. STFU. It's happened once in Crew history. Know the rules.
Being at 95 pitches through 6, I don’t think there’s much to worry about. A team one would be cool.
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Jesus H muggsy. STFU. It's happened once in Crew history. Know the rules.
Sorry.
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Free to talk about it now
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Up until maybe 20 years ago no manager would have pulled a pitcher giving up no hits through 1 out in the seventh and a 4 run lead. When the manager came to the mound to make the change the pitcher would have killed him and the other 8 guys would have backed the pitcher
Everything today is pitch counts and metrics and everything else be damned.
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I just saw that the Brewers' pitcher tonight has a no hitter through 6 innings. Are they good enough to have a puncher's chance in the playoffs?
and now they’re losing. This is on you.
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and now they’re losing. This is on you.
Whoops. My apologies.
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Oops. At least Lester came cheap.
Lane Thomas coulda lost that game easier.
(and yes, I'm aware he's not a pitcher...that's the joke...)
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I just saw that the Brewers' pitcher tonight has a no hitter through 6 innings. Are they good enough to have a puncher's chance in the playoffs?
Since nobody answered your question, yes they're good enough. As it stands right now they'd be favored to win the NLDS over the Mets. They are obviously not as good as the Dodgers. Nobody is. But they can beat anyone else if the Dodgers manage to lose in the WC game or in the NLDS. The top 3 in the rotation gives them a great shot to make a run.
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and now they’re losing. This is on you.
Or Covid. Those stiffs - Norris and Hardy - never would have seen the field otherwise.
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Or Covid. Those stiffs - Norris and Hardy - never would have seen the field otherwise.
Nah, definitely Mugsy’s fault.
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Remember when there was some hair on fire that there were gonna be a bazillion no-hitters this year after there were 4 in a 2-week stretch of May?
Well, since then, there has been exactly one -- the 4-pitcher no-hitter by the Cubs on June 24 that, coincidentally, marked the last day the North Siders were relevant this season.
The last solo pitcher to throw one was Kluber almost 3 months ago.
Always beware of "on the pace to" stats.
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Remember when there was some hair on fire that there were gonna be a bazillion no-hitters this year after there were 4 in a 2-week stretch of May?
Well, since then, there has been exactly one -- the 4-pitcher no-hitter by the Cubs on June 24 that, coincidentally, marked the last day the North Siders were relevant this season.
The last solo pitcher to throw one was Kluber almost 3 months ago.
Always beware of "on the pace to" stats.
Think there's any reason for that? Perhaps MLB's stance on applying substances to baseballs?
Go look at spin rates before and after that decision
Edit: https://www.wsj.com/articles/mlb-spin-rate-data-foreign-substances-11625189466
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Think there's any reason for that? Perhaps MLB's stance on applying substances to baseballs?
Go look at spin rates before and after that decision
Edit: https://www.wsj.com/articles/mlb-spin-rate-data-foreign-substances-11625189466
Perhaps.
But no-hitters also require a pretty good amount of luck. There have been plenty of superbly pitched games since then; just no no-hitters.
So I'll stick with saying beware of making projections based on data accumulated over only a brief span. Baseball history is filled with guys who hit 6-7 homers the first 3 weeks of the season but only end up with a dozen or less.
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Nah, definitely Mugsy’s fault.
I'll take the blame. But to DTD's point why on earth would a manager pull a pitcher with a no-hitter through 6+ innings?
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Because the game has changes in the last 20 years. Couns is one of the best at managing arms IMO. He doesn't get it right 100% of the time, but I'd trust him more often than not.
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I'll take the blame. But to DTD's point why on earth would a manager pull a pitcher with a no-hitter through 6+ innings?
He left with 104 pitches in the 6th. He had no shot at a no hitter.
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We had this go on this week.
Cat on the loose draws MVP chants in Bronx
https://www.mlb.com/news/cat-on-the-field-at-yankee-stadium
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Axford out for the year. Not the Cinderella story the brewers could’ve used.
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Axford out for the year. Not the Cinderella story the brewers could’ve used.
5 batters. We hardly re-met thee.
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5 batters. We hardly re-met thee.
$16k a pitch. Sucks, Ax was a fun watch. Electric stuff, worth the flier.
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Remember when there was some hair on fire that there were gonna be a bazillion no-hitters this year after there were 4 in a 2-week stretch of May?
It’s almost like there was a dramatic change with pitching that took place shortly thereafter.
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He left with 104 pitches in the 6th. He had no shot at a no hitter.
Actually left with 1 out in the 7th.
And I wasn't making the case that Counsell should have left him in. I'm a big Counsell fan. I was merely observing that not all that many years ago, no manager in baseball would have yanked a guy with a 4 run lead and 8 outs away from a no-hitter.
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Actually left with 1 out in the 7th.
And I wasn't making the case that Counsell should have left him in. I'm a big Counsell fan. I was merely observing that not all that many years ago, no manager in baseball would have yanked a guy with a 4 run lead and 8 outs away from a no-hitter.
I misread the 6+. Thanks for the correction.
I agree with you. Responding more to Muggsy not understanding why he was pulled with a no-hitter going.
Was it Ervin Santana that threw a no-hitter with like 8 walks and 140 pitches? Otherwise, I think that’s why you are seeing the team no-hitters more common. Managers aren’t going to let you stretch too far anymore.
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A win is a win. That's counselll's view. It's all about inning management.
There are studies by USA baseball that show the deterioration of quality innings as inning counts rise. That's what Counsell's worried about. Crew can't afford to have guys running out of gas in October.
ETA: especially coming off a 60 game season. It's still coming back to a lot of pitchers. 2020 was weird for pitchers. /end ETA.
Plus, look what happened to the Cubs after they threw their team no hitter, aina?
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I'm not a baez guy, but I do think he's amazing on the bases.
His slide at home tonight was amazing. The catcher applied the tag wrong, Shoulda gone to the base, not the runner, but the way baez shifted his body momentum was impressive.
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Counsel is simply managing the starter’s innings. None of his starters have ever thrown big innings plus they are coming off a short season.
Simply managing arms.
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It’s almost like there was a dramatic change with pitching that took place shortly thereafter.
Already addressed a few posts earlier.
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I'm not a baez guy, but I do think he's amazing on the bases.
And really a good defender. And then 5 strikeouts today. All Baez doing Baez things.
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141 Ks
16 walks
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RIP JR Richard, Astros pitcher cut down in his prime due to a stroke, died on Aug 4 at age 71 from COVID complications
In person he was one of the scariest dominant pitchers to face. He was really just hitting his stride in the late 70s when the stroke cut short his career in 1980.
In tonight's telecast Astros compared his stats to Mets Jacob DeGrom
( who some posters here consider to be pretty good);
Over their respective last 30 starts, consider:
JR Richard J. DeGrom
Innings 225.2 181.0
ERA 1.44 1.44
K's 250 274
Opponent Slug% .210 .262
JR had an enviable streak from Aug 3 1979 to Sept 6 1979:
Date/Opponent / Innings/ Runs
Aug 3 ATL 9.0 1
Aug 8 LA 9.0 1
Aug 13 MTL 9.0 1
Aug 18 Phi 9.0 1
(Then, he got serious..lol)
Aug 22 NY 9.0 0
Aug 27 Mtl 9.0 0
Sept 1 NY 9.0 0
Sept 6 SD 9.0 0
He pitched 86 straight innings without relief during this stretch
RIP, a great one
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Schwindel & Deichmann.
Cubs #4  hitters or a local law firm? Inquiring minds want to know.
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It would be so funny if Kimbrel starting sucking again.
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It would be so funny if Kimbrel starting sucking again.
His suckage ran rampant today.
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Rizzo to Covid IL. As you were.
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Rizzo to Covid IL. As you were.
(https://giphy.com/gifs/SheetsGiggles-jerry-seinfeld-a-shame-USnfWeCOHTHB3WX0aY)
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Brewers had a few chances to secure an impressive series victory but couldn’t do it. Covid hurting the bullpen bad.
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Anti-vaxxers cost 3 wins in last 5 days.
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Anti-vaxxers cost 3 wins in last 5 days.
Dumbass.
Most mlb players got the J&J shot. Not as effective at preventing getting it. Brewers are still at 75% or higher.
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I’m gonna go out on a limb and say Zach Davies ain’t going the distance tonight.
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Brewers had a few chances to secure an impressive series victory but couldn’t do it. Covid hurting the bullpen bad.
That dropped fly out yesterday was brutal
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Rockies mason name change coming?
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Rockies mason name change coming?
Reason 1,642,863,325 why Twitter needs to be shut down.
ETA: saw a moderately amusing post saying that they should just change the mascot's name to Dinga and the other mascots can call it that.
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Zigs, you seem triggered by pretty much everything. Lighten up, dude.
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Zigs, you seem triggered by pretty much everything. Lighten up, dude.
not triggered (you a$$hole).
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I enjoy having Eloy back.
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This isn’t a hater message by any means, and I get the circumstances behind it, but in summer 2021, I never thought I’d see maybe 2,500 people only in attendance at Wrigley for a Cubs/Brewers game.
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This isn’t a hater message by any means, and I get the circumstances behind it, but in summer 2021, I never thought I’d see maybe 2,500 people only in attendance at Wrigley for a Cubs/Brewers game.
Oh, you're referring to AmFam South? 8-)
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This isn’t a hater message by any means, and I get the circumstances behind it, but in summer 2021, I never thought I’d see maybe 2,500 people only in attendance at Wrigley for a Cubs/Brewers game.
Its an unscheduled game, but I agree.
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This isn’t a hater message by any means, and I get the circumstances behind it, but in summer 2021, I never thought I’d see maybe 2,500 people only in attendance at Wrigley for a Cubs/Brewers game.
It's a rained out game from a Monday to a Tuesday at 1. I don't think it's crazy shocking at all
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Oh, you're referring to AmFam South? 8-)
MVP chants for Adames coming through loud and clear on the radio.
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If I'm not mistaken, the Brewers can retake the all time series lead vs. the Cubs if they go 5-1 (or better) in the last 6 games. They would tie the all time series if they go 4-2. I believe the Brewers last lead the series in 2013.
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MVP chants for Adames coming through loud and clear on the radio.
That's was a "HGH" not "MVP" chant, aina?
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Only thing worse than watching one Cubs game this season is watching two.
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That's was a "HGH" not "MVP" chant, aina?
I am at the 7:05 game. A single ticket with a face value of $46 was $16.85 with fees in StubHub. There are maybe 7k people here.
An Old Style with a 15% tip, (everything is cashless) is $15.12.
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I am at the 7:05 game. A single ticket with a face value of $46 was $16.85 with fees in StubHub. There are maybe 7k people here.
An Old Style with a 15% tip, (everything is cashless) is $15.12.
Yeah, in my last post, that was kinda my point. I got a text from my brother early Tuesday morning telling me to look at the all inclusive club sections for the afternoon game, Stub Hub had tickets at $49. I then looked at the seat map, and you could get 7th row down the lines for $6.
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I am at the 7:05 game. A single ticket with a face value of $46 was $16.85 with fees in StubHub. There are maybe 7k people here.
An Old Style with a 15% tip, (everything is cashless) is $15.12.
That's funny (and true). The Ricketts Family really underestimated the Cubs fan angst (admittedly). They know they have to pony up in the FA market next year. Let's see what comes first: Sell the club or sign FAs?
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Arrietta needs his roids back, aina?
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Arrietta needs his roids back, aina?
It’s free money whenever he pitches. I hope the Cubs keep rolling him out there. Cards with Lester, Angels with Bundy too.
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Burns ties MLB record with 10 straight Ks (all swinging).
Does he get an asterisk because it's against the Cubs AA affiliate? 😂😂
Edit: autocorrect.
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Also strikes out the second most batters in a game in Brewers history behind Ben Sheets.
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Also strikes out the second most batters in a game in Brewers history behind Ben Sheets.
Was at that game. Sheeter was on fire that day. That 12/6 curve was untouchable.
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LaRussa will not manage the game at the Field of Dreams. It was announced he’ll be attending the funeral for his brother-in-law, but I think he’s worried the ghosts will call him back into the corn.
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LaRussa will not manage the game at the Field of Dreams. It was announced he’ll be attending the funeral for his brother-in-law, but I think he’s worried the ghosts will call him back into the corn.
I figured its because there is a ton of corn. And corn makes bourbon, which is too much distraction and temptation for Tipsy Tommy.
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Brewers still have control over Burnes, Houser, Lauer and Woodruff for three more seasons after this one. Peralta could be under club control for five more at a pretty reasonable price.
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Brewers still have control over Burnes, Houser, Lauer and Woodruff for three more seasons after this one. Peralta could be under club control for five more at a pretty reasonable price.
Wild. I’m really glad the Brewers didn’t take my advice of thinking Burnes was cooked a few years ago. Shows the patience you need with young guys.
So rare to see the Brewers developing starting pitching. We are spoiled by this front office and coaching staff.
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Brewers still have control over Burnes, Houser, Lauer and Woodruff for three more seasons after this one. Peralta could be under club control for five more at a pretty reasonable price.
Now do Yelich.
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Now do Yelich.
Good thing they have young, controllable arms so they can absorb his contract. No doubt they overpaid, as they did with Braun, but in the long-run the Braun contract didn't hamstring them and this one won't either unless he ends up injured.
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Now do Yelich.
The optimist in me is his back injury early in the year never healed, and that’s the issue right now. Hopefully the offseason will be able to heal that and he gets his power back.
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Arrieta on waivers. Added to his sucky pitching, his snotty comments to a mask-wearing reporter may have been a bridge too far.
It also came hours after Arrieta chided a reporter on a postgame video news conference for wearing a facemask in the Wrigley Field press box.
“I’d love you to take your mask off. I don’t think anybody’s around you,” Arrieta said in response to a question about mentoring young pitchers.
Odd and inappropriate as that request might have been, his mound performance was even worse.
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I would guess he aligns pretty well with the Ricketts’.
Probably just the sh!tty pitching.
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“I’d love you to take your mask off. I don’t think anybody’s around you,” Arrieta said in response to a question about mentoring young pitchers.
The same folks that say "my body, my choice" when refusing to act like responsible people and get a job get pissed off when other people wear masks. Sigh.
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I figured its because there is a ton of corn. And corn makes bourbon, which is too much distraction and temptation for Tipsy Tommy.
You know ... you get nabbed for drunk driving 1 or 2 times -- 3 or 4, tops! -- and you get labeled for life.
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Ironically, it was Carlton Fisk who passed out drunk in the cornfield.
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Brewers just murdering the Cubs. You love to see it.
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First time the Brewers have swept the Cubs in 4 games in franchise history.
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Felt good to beat up on Hendricks, who went to the "Ted Lilly School of Underwhelming Velocity that took the Brewers' lunch"
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Maybe it's me but Fieid of Dreams is a mediocre film at best.
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Maybe it's me but Fieid of Dreams is a mediocre film at best.
The movie is great from a nostalgia standpoint.
But, otherwise, it is a pretty bad movie - writing, direction, acting, etc.
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Maybe it's me but Fieid of Dreams is a mediocre film at best.
We agree on this. The weakest of Costner's baseball films IMO.
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Maybe it's me but Fieid of Dreams is a mediocre film at best.
Not just you.
And the Field of Dreams game is meh, too.
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The movie is great from a nostalgia standpoint.
But, otherwise, it is a pretty bad movie - writing, direction, acting, etc.
Agreed. It actually could be top 10 most overrated films of all-time. Costner can't act and the writing is awful.
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Agreed. It actually could be top 10 most overrated films of all-time. Costner can't act and the writing is awful.
Costner’s range is never impressive, but he does OK.
For me it was Ray Liotta. Shoeless Joe was an ignorant southerner. Liotta played him like he was auditioning for Goodfellas. Not to mention that Joe batted lefty and Liotta played him right-handed.
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Costner’s range is never impressive, but he does OK.
For me it was Ray Liotta. Shoeless Joe was an ignorant southerner. Liotta played him like he was auditioning for Goodfellas. Not to mention that Joe batted lefty and Liotta played him right-handed.
I think Costner is a good dude but yes, has no range among other probs. Liotta was horrible, true dat. The whole film is pretty much a disaster. I enjoyed The Natural.
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It’s not very good. And this whole worshipping of baseball’s past is dumb.
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It’s not very good. And this whole worshipping of baseball’s past is dumb.
Yes. Never understood the whole fascination. And there's this weird metaphor for life nonsense.
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Yes. Never understood the whole fascination. And there's this weird metaphor for life nonsense.
The movie sucks. It’s one of the reasons why non-fans think baseball is boring.
I’d rather they re-create Bull Durham.
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It’s not very good. And this whole worshipping of baseball’s past is dumb.
I’m fine with worshipping baseball’s past. It just needs to be done way better.
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I’m fine with worshipping baseball’s past. It just needs to be done way better.
And in a way that doesn’t hamper its future.
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For love of the game was far, far worse of a Costner baseball movie.
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I’d rather they re-create Bull Durham.
No, I don't think you can improve on it.
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And the Field of Dreams game is meh, too.
You sure?
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What an eff’n game. All the stars of both teams had massive hits, 9th inning was ridiculous, exploding scoreboard after Anderson’s walk off was a great touch.
That’s as memorable a regular season game as you’ll ever get.
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That was a great baseball ending. I root against the White Sox, but what a 9th inning.
Also, right now Ohtani is pitching to Vlad, Jr. The leader in Hrs is pitching to whom is second.
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Wild game. All but 1 run scored on bombs.
I think 8 homers overall.
3, 9th inning 2 run shots.
Definitely got the game they were looking for.
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Field of Dreams is good for "step outside you Nazi cow" which made me laugh hysterically multiple times in my childhood and James Earl Jones. The rest of it is pretty lame.
As for Costner, I think he got deemed so overrated that he became underrated. He was arguably the biggest male movie star in the world in the early 90s, for good reason. That run from The Untouchables through the Bodyguard (however you feel about that movie, it was a monster hit) was heavy. But then between Waterworld and the Postman, people trashed his entire career, especially since he took a big step back cause he had tons of money and why not. He's not the most versatile actor in the world, but he's good in his range of grizzled protagonists.
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Field of Dreams is good for "step outside you Nazi cow" which made me laugh hysterically multiple times in my childhood and James Earl Jones. The rest of it is pretty lame.
As for Costner, I think he got deemed so overrated that he became underrated. He was arguably the biggest male movie star in the world in the early 90s, for good reason. That run from The Untouchables through the Bodyguard (however you feel about that movie, it was a monster hit) was heavy. But then between Waterworld and the Postman, people trashed his entire career, especially since he took a big step back cause he had tons of money and why not. He's not the most versatile actor in the world, but he's good in his range of grizzled protagonists.
Pretty much spot on.
Hes been really good recently in Yellowstone and the movie Let Him Go which as you said are those wheelhouse roles for him.
Was also damn good in a smaller role in Mollys Game.
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Pretty much spot on.
Hes been really good recently in Yellowstone and the movie Let Him Go which as you said are those wheelhouse roles for him.
Was also damn good in a smaller role in Mollys Game.
He was unbelievable in the Big Chill….
As for the game, c’mon man! What an ending! Sox win! Personally, I love the nostalgia. Could it be done better? Most things could, upon reflection. But I don’t think this game is going to hamper baseball’s future.
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Field of Dreams is good for "step outside you Nazi cow" which made me laugh hysterically multiple times in my childhood and James Earl Jones. The rest of it is pretty lame.
As for Costner, I think he got deemed so overrated that he became underrated. He was arguably the biggest male movie star in the world in the early 90s, for good reason. That run from The Untouchables through the Bodyguard (however you feel about that movie, it was a monster hit) was heavy. But then between Waterworld and the Postman, people trashed his entire career, especially since he took a big step back cause he had tons of money and why not. He's not the most versatile actor in the world, but he's good in his range of grizzled protagonists.
He's not horrible....but at the same time he's somewhat robotic. Even in No Way Out, which is a great film, he looks out of place among the other actors.
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That was the Sox 15th walk off homer versus the Yankees.
The first? Joe Jackson, July 1919.
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Dubuque County with a real live, count in the standings major league baseball game?
Now I really have seen everything!
God knows, maybe it will start a trend. They'll graze cows outside center field in Milwaukee.
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It must be exhausting to hate fun so much.
Field of dreams sucks!
Nostalgia sucks!
Baseball sucks!
Kevin Costner sucks!
This game sucks!
What a bunch of old goats.
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People I know who were at the game have posted that it lived up to the hype and was one of the best regular-season games they’ve been to.
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It must be exhausting to hate fun so much.
Field of dreams sucks!
Nostalgia sucks!
Baseball sucks!
Kevin Costner sucks!
This game sucks!
What a bunch of old goats.
1.) The movie Field of Dreams does suck.
2.) “Nostalgia” is definitely hampering the game. It’s the reason why some people still freak out about seining 3-0.
3.) Nobody said baseball sucks.
4.) Costner has made better movies; nobody has said he sucks.
5.) The game, to a poster, was exciting. Re-read the thread.
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Field of Dreams is good for "step outside you Nazi cow" which made me laugh hysterically multiple times in my childhood and James Earl Jones.
This line in Field of Dreams was so well delivered by our own Amy Madigan, MU grad in philosophy and wife of actor Ed Harris with whom she has worked often...
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001496/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm#trivia
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1.) The movie Field of Dreams does suck.
2.) “Nostalgia” is definitely hampering the game. It’s the reason why some people still freak out about seining 3-0.
3.) Nobody said baseball sucks.
4.) Costner has made better movies; nobody has said he sucks.
5.) The game, to a poster, was exciting. Re-read the thread.
1) Only if you have no sense of imagination or wonder. Its a movie with James Earl Jones and Burt Lancaster. Cmon. But fine movie opinions.
2)That's not nostalgia. Thats more old goats. The I hate everything nation, which is so prevalent here.
3)ok fine. I was being a drama Llama.
4)There sure was a lot of dancing around he sucks, but whatever. Movie opinions.
5) I guess I misinterpreted "the game is meh"?
I'm sticking with miserable old goats.
That game was awesome. From start to finish. I loved everything about it.
https://twitter.com/PardonMyTake/status/1426028760780967940?s=20
Sorry for the nostalgia crossover...
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1) Only if you have no sense of imagination or wonder. Its a movie with James Earl Jones and Burt Lancaster. Cmon. But fine movie opinions.
2)That's not nostalgia. Thats more old goats. The I hate everything nation, which is so prevalent here.
3)ok fine. I was being a drama Llama.
4)There sure was a lot of dancing around he sucks, but whatever. Movie opinions.
5) I guess I misinterpreted "the game is meh"?
I'm sticking with miserable old goats.
That game was awesome. From start to finish. I loved everything about it.
https://twitter.com/PardonMyTake/status/1426028760780967940?s=20
Sorry for the nostalgia crossover...
1. It's an opinion. I have "imagination and wonder," but that movie doesn't do it for me. "The Natural" is way more interesting as a nostalgic baseball movie IMO.
2. Baseball has over-emphasized its past for too long, and IMO is one of the reasons its fanbase continues to age.
3. Agreed
4. I think a part of his problem is that he got on a streak of bad movies. By and large he's fine.
5. Heard the game was good, but I have no reason or desire to watch a regular season White Sox / Yankees game though. I was watching a replay of the Brewers.
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I thoroughly enjoyed the game until the bottom of the 9th, but I am a Yankee fan.
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Nothing not to like about that game last night! And as far as how to leverage baseball's past to improve its future, I think last night was mostly a great example. Got a little corny at times, but seeing the White Sox swag out those classic unis in a cornfield with a walk off homer in front of fireworks was pretty pretty pretty great.
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1. It's an opinion. I have "imagination and wonder," but that movie doesn't do it for me. "The Natural" is way more interesting as a nostalgic baseball movie IMO.
I can't get behind the Natural. Read the book first, loved it, then watched the movie. The ending of the movie completely changed the entire story.
Give me Bull Durham for best baseball movie.
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I can't get behind the Natural. Read the book first, loved it, then watched the movie. The ending of the movie completely changed the entire story.
Give me Bull Durham for best baseball movie.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRWdj81jbo2790a-O6UOxYvGKDakrcShjiWXA&usqp=CAU)
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I can't get behind the Natural. Read the book first, loved it, then watched the movie. The ending of the movie completely changed the entire story.
Give me Bull Durham for best baseball movie.
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSTf6xLXdGRMgRL0GgNd3f-JUZZqaFNfXy_sIJI--goFMlqkw5P)
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Monster ratings for last night’s game.
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I can't get behind the Natural. Read the book first, loved it, then watched the movie. The ending of the movie completely changed the entire story.
Give me Bull Durham for best baseball movie.
That's a no-brainer for me.
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You guys are on a roll - Bull Durham, Bang the Drum Slowly and Major League were all great!
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I can't get behind the Natural. Read the book first, loved it, then watched the movie. The ending of the movie completely changed the entire story.
Give me Bull Durham for best baseball movie.
You guys are on a roll - Bull Durham, Bang the Drum Slowly and Major League were all great!
My two favorite baseball movies are Bull Durham and Naked Gun. Yeah, the latter is a stretch to call a "baseball movie," but there haven't been many more legitimately funny baseball scenes in movie history than Frank Drebin umpiring. Throw in the Reggie Jackson stuff, and it's "baseball enough" for me to include it here!
I liked The Natural, but I saw the movie first. After reading the book, I was like, "Wow. That's different." And different was better, yes.
As for others ...
I remembered liking Bang The Drum Slowly when I saw it in the theater eons ago, but I rented it probably 10 years ago with my son and we both actually thought it was pretty boring.
Major League was fun but beyond stupid, and nowhere near as stupid-funny as, say, Bad News Bears IMHO. Every once in awhile, I ump a Little League game in which a player reminds me of one of the Bears -- usually Tanner -- and I have to try hard to not laugh out loud.
I liked A League of Their Own, Moneyball, 42, Eight Men Out, Sugar and 61 but wouldn't consider any of them "classics."
I do always get a kick out of Damn Yankees, which I've probably seen 50 times, including twice on Broadway (once with Jerry Lewis).
Anthony Perkins didn't even slightly resemble a baseball player, but his portrayal of Jimmy Piersall was incredible; Fear Strikes Out is very underrated and, I'd say, way ahead of its time as a 1957 movie that examined mental illness.
The Pride of the Yankees is a guilty pleasure -- even though its action scenes were '40s-production bad and it was schmaltzy, the Lou Gehrig story is so compelling and Gary Cooper is so likable that it's impossible for me not to enjoy it.
And speaking of schmaltzy ... I just never really liked Field of Dreams all that much. The plays on emotion just always felt forced and staged to me, and I don't think Costner is all that good in it. (Was much better in Bull Durham IMHO.)
Nostalgia sucks!
This game sucks!
What a bunch of old goats.
I'm not at all against nostalgia. Many of the baseball flicks I like appeal strongly to nostalgia, including Bull Durham, Bad News Bears, Pride of the Yankees, Damn Yankees, Natural. To me, they're simply better than a nostalgia-for-the-sake-of-nostalgia deal like Field of Dreams.
But hey, I know plenty of people who put FoD at No. 1, and that's why they make all kinds of movies for all kinds of audiences!
Finally ... as for me calling the Field of Dreams Game "meh" ... I made that statement before the game was played. I was expressing my own interest in a regular-season game between the Yankees and White Sox on a Thursday night in August, and I wasn't moved to think it would be "special" merely because it was in a cornfield.
I didn't see the game but watched Sportscenter and it looks like it was a fine game in a cool setting. Had the game been an 11-1 snooze, would many folks be waxing poetic about it? I don't know ... but it wasn't 11-1, it was a fine game in a cool setting ... so sure, I'll eat crow for my "meh" on this one.
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The fact that we are spending this much time discussing the game is the exact reason they played it.
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Bad News Bears suffers in the context of the sequels. The original is a no-brainer top 5 baseball movie.
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The fact that we are spending this much time discussing the game is the exact reason they played it.
No joke. MLB and Fox couldn't have asked for a better game. And they executed their jobs perfectly.
And to me the number 1 baseball movie is The Sandlot.
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My two favorite baseball movies are Bull Durham and Naked Gun. Yeah, the latter is a stretch to call a "baseball movie," but there haven't been many more legitimately funny baseball scenes in movie history than Frank Drebin umpiring. Throw in the Reggie Jackson stuff, and it's "baseball enough" for me to include it here!
I liked The Natural, but I saw the movie first. After reading the book, I was like, "Wow. That's different." And different was better, yes.
As for others ...
I remembered liking Bang The Drum Slowly when I saw it in the theater eons ago, but I rented it probably 10 years ago with my son and we both actually thought it was pretty boring.
Major League was fun but beyond stupid, and nowhere near as stupid-funny as, say, Bad News Bears IMHO. Every once in awhile, I ump a Little League game in which a player reminds me of one of the Bears -- usually Tanner -- and I have to try hard to not laugh out loud.
I liked A League of Their Own, Moneyball, 42, Eight Men Out, Sugar and 61 but wouldn't consider any of them "classics."
I do always get a kick out of Damn Yankees, which I've probably seen 50 times, including twice on Broadway (once with Jerry Lewis).
Anthony Perkins didn't even slightly resemble a baseball player, but his portrayal of Jimmy Piersall was incredible; Fear Strikes Out is very underrated and, I'd say, way ahead of its time as a 1957 movie that examined mental illness.
The Pride of the Yankees is a guilty pleasure -- even though its action scenes were '40s-production bad and it was schmaltzy, the Lou Gehrig story is so compelling and Gary Cooper is so likable that it's impossible for me not to enjoy it.
And speaking of schmaltzy ... I just never really liked Field of Dreams all that much. The plays on emotion just always felt forced and staged to me, and I don't think Costner is all that good in it. (Was much better in Bull Durham IMHO.)
I'm not at all against nostalgia. Many of the baseball flicks I like appeal strongly to nostalgia, including Bull Durham, Bad News Bears, Pride of the Yankees, Damn Yankees, Natural. To me, they're simply better than a nostalgia-for-the-sake-of-nostalgia deal like Field of Dreams.
But hey, I know plenty of people who put FoD at No. 1, and that's why they make all kinds of movies for all kinds of audiences!
Finally ... as for me calling the Field of Dreams Game "meh" ... I made that statement before the game was played. I was expressing my own interest in a regular-season game between the Yankees and White Sox on a Thursday night in August, and I wasn't moved to think it would be "special" merely because it was in a cornfield.
I didn't see the game but watched Sportscenter and it looks like it was a fine game in a cool setting. Had the game been an 11-1 snooze, would many folks be waxing poetic about it? I don't know ... but it wasn't 11-1, it was a fine game in a cool setting ... so sure, I'll eat crow for my "meh" on this one.
Lots of good movie picks here, Mike! If Naked Gun is a baseball movie, I’m with you. Bad News Bears was funny, Fear Strikes Out moving and Ray Walston was GREAT in Damn Yankees.
Like you, I saw Bang the Drum Slowly in the theater as a (relatively) young man and loved it but when I watched it years later it didn’t age all that well.
Sticking with “old” (liked Pride of the Yankees, too) how about It Happens Every Spring with Ray Milland or The Monty Stratton Story with Jimmy Stewart and June Allyson?
Agree that 42, 8 Men Out and others mentioned were solid. Actually really liked Moneyball, would put it in my top 5 list.
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Lots of good movie picks here, Mike! If Naked Gun is a baseball movie, I’m with you. Bad News Bears was funny, Fear Strikes Out moving and Ray Walston was GREAT in Damn Yankees.
Like you, I saw Bang the Drum Slowly in the theater as a (relatively) young man and loved it but when I watched it years later it didn’t age all that well.
Sticking with “old” (liked Pride of the Yankees, too) how about It Happens Every Spring with Ray Milland or The Monty Stratton Story with Jimmy Stewart and June Allyson?
Agree that 42, 8 Men Out and others mentioned were solid. Actually really liked Moneyball, would put it in my top 5 list.
I was going to rewatch Bang the Drum Slowly, but if you and MU82 can agree on something, I'd better leave me with my memories on enjoying the movie.
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I was going to rewatch Bang the Drum Slowly, but if you and MU82 can agree on something, I'd better leave me with my memories on enjoying the movie.
Made me laugh ... but Lenny and I actually agree on lots of stuff ... including that most of our disagreements are inconsequential in the grand scheme of things!
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Lots of good movie picks here, Mike! If Naked Gun is a baseball movie, I’m with you. Bad News Bears was funny, Fear Strikes Out moving and Ray Walston was GREAT in Damn Yankees.
Like you, I saw Bang the Drum Slowly in the theater as a (relatively) young man and loved it but when I watched it years later it didn’t age all that well.
Sticking with “old” (liked Pride of the Yankees, too) how about It Happens Every Spring with Ray Milland or The Monty Stratton Story with Jimmy Stewart and June Allyson?
Agree that 42, 8 Men Out and others mentioned were solid. Actually really liked Moneyball, would put it in my top 5 list.
That was a great role for Ray Walston ... though no My Favorite Martian - ha! As I said, I saw it on stage with Jerry Lewis as Mr. Applegate, and he had so much fun with it that the audience was really into it.
I haven't seen It Happens Every Spring and The Monty Stratton Story. I'll add 'em to my list!
Inspired by this entire topic, I just watched Umpire Frank Drebin again. I've probably seen it 1,000 times ... and yet I still laughed 5 times during this 2 1/2 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyghaQMO5HQ
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In their last 21 innings, the Cubs have given up 41 runs.
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Luckily for Cubs fans, it's only a re-load, not a rebuild. ::)
Pittsburgh, we are comin' for you.
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Who the F is Tyler Gilbert?
Good job young man!
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Who the F is Tyler Gilbert?
Good job young man!
First career start and was a Rule 5 pick last year to boot. Absolutely amazing
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So it appears that the Brewers are waiving Travis Shaw off the injured list. No surprise given the acquisition of multiple infielders, most notably Escobar and Tellez. A sincere Thank You for the contribution the 'Mayor of Ding Dong City' has made this year. Always playing full speed, he carried the team for extended periods back in April and May.
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So it appears that the Brewers are waiving Travis Shaw off the injured list. No surprise given the acquisition of multiple infielders, most notably Escobar and Tellez. A sincere Thank You for the contribution the 'Mayor of Ding Dong City' has made this year. Always playing full speed, he carried the team for extended periods back in April and May.
Yeah kinda sad but completely understandable.
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First career start and was a Rule 5 pick last year to boot. Absolutely amazing
Fortunately I was on mlb.tv and they posted the "no hitter" alert - watched the last 3 outs "live". Mowed them down. Fun times.
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So it appears that the Brewers are waiving Travis Shaw off the injured list. No surprise given the acquisition of multiple infielders, most notably Escobar and Tellez. A sincere Thank You for the contribution the 'Mayor of Ding Dong City' has made this year. Always playing full speed, he carried the team for extended periods back in April and May.
.157 and .191 the last 2 years he played for the Brewers. Got rid of him and Arcia this year. My 2 least fave Brewer hitters in a long time.
I won’t miss them a bit.
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.157 and .191 the last 2 years he played for the Brewers. Got rid of him and Arcia this year. My 2 least fave Brewer hitters in a long time.
I won’t miss them a bit.
As a ballplayer at this stage of his career, I agree. But no one can ever question his hustle, leadership, and commitment to the team. He'll have earned his ring if the Crew gets one and is always welcome back at Am Fam.
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Also was playing through some tough personal times. Daughter was in the PICU at Children’s his last stint. From everything I’ve heard, he’s a really good person.
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Also was playing through some tough personal times. Daughter was in the PICU at Children’s his last stint. From everything I’ve heard, he’s a really good person.
Yep. And from what I've heard, the same goes for Arcia.
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As a ballplayer at this stage of his career, I agree. But no one can ever question his hustle, leadership, and commitment to the team. He'll have earned his ring if the Crew gets one and is always welcome back at Am Fam.
Yeah I agree. Plus he was outstanding his 1st year in Milwaukee.
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Yep. And from what I've heard, the same goes for Arcia.
People like to criticize athletes, but, generally they are pretty good people. Arcia was great in the dugout, but that big looping swing drove me nuts.
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Yeah kinda sad but completely understandable.
Did dey ax #12 if it wuz ok wit 'im, hey?
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The White Sox certainly do not play World Series Champion defense.
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Jack Morris should be fired today.
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Really? BFD, hey?
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Really? BFD, hey?
Ah....ignoring casual racism. Shocking.
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Jack Morris should be fired today.
The Elmer Fudd defense.
He apologized as soon as it was brought to his attention.
I assume he will be let go.
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As always, I'm a big believer in second chances, so I hope he doesn't get canned. I hope he is given a chance to learn and grow.
But his apology was extremely weak -- the old "if I offended" not-really-apology -- and I certainly wouldn't be outraged if he's gone.
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As always, I'm a big believer in second chances, so I hope he doesn't get canned. I hope he is given a chance to learn and grow.
But his apology was extremely weak -- the old "if I offended" not-really-apology -- and I certainly wouldn't be outraged if he's gone.
Reading some articles, I don’t know that this is totally out of character for him. It looks like he’s kind of known for making thinly veiled racist comments. This one just seems to be more explicit than normal.
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Reading some articles, I don’t know that this is totally out of character for him. It looks like he’s kind of known for making thinly veiled racist comments. This one just seems to be more explicit than normal.
I didn't know that about him, so maybe he's already had second and third and fourth chances. If so, it's time to drop the curtain.
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Ah....ignoring casual racism. Shocking.
Not condoning what he said, but this is definitely not chit-canned worthy, aina?
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Not condoning what he said, but this is definitely not chit-canned worthy, aina?
In most occupations, I would agree. For on-air journalists? Not sure that I do.
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Not condoning what he said, but this is definitely not chit-canned worthy, aina?
You might be right, but when you say "BFD" you lead me to believe that you don't think it's a big f*cking deal.
Guys lack Jack Morris are a dime a dozen. Not sure why you would have enough loyalty to him to give him a second chance.
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Guess I'm not woke enough. Would be interested what Ohtani's comments were upon hearing the clip. I'm thinking he won't make a thing about it, hey?
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Guess I'm not woke enough. Would be interested what Ohtani's comments were upon hearing the clip. I'm thinking he won't make a thing about it, hey?
Doesn't just matter what Ohtani thinks hey?
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Guess I'm not woke enough. Would be interested what Ohtani's comments were upon hearing the clip. I'm thinking he won't make a thing about it, hey?
This is going to be some radical news, but there are more people in the world than just you. Some of them may have opinions that differ from yours. Some may be harder to offend, or easier. The fact that you don't see what Morris said as a fireable offense is, to put it charitably, irrelevant to whether he should or will be. The people who actually have a stake in the Tigers organization and Ballysports are the people whose opinions matter. Somewhat less so, the people who watch Tigers broadcasts may have opinions that matter (in so far as they could choose not to keep watching so long as Morris is employed). But a random dude with no ties whatsoever to the Tigers who just really wants to make sure that no consequences attach to Morris in this situation... uh... less so.
Do you have a reason for leaping to Morris' defense? Because regardless of how "bad" what he said was, the only reason I could see feeling compelled to argue publicly that it shouldn't be grounds for dismissal is if you think "eh, sounds like something I might say and I sure don't want those pitchforks coming for me."
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You might be right, but when you say "BFD" you lead me to believe that you don't think it's a big f*cking deal.
Guys lack Jack Morris are a dime a dozen. Not sure why you would have enough loyalty to him to give him a second chance.
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He absolutely should have a second chance. But that came and went-as well as a third chance.
He should just go to Barstool where his racism and misogyny would fit right in.
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This is going to be some radical news, but there are more people in the world than just you. Some of them may have opinions that differ from yours. Some may be harder to offend, or easier. The fact that you don't see what Morris said as a fireable offense is, to put it charitably, irrelevant to whether he should or will be. The people who actually have a stake in the Tigers organization and Ballysports are the people whose opinions matter. Somewhat less so, the people who watch Tigers broadcasts may have opinions that matter (in so far as they could choose not to keep watching so long as Morris is employed). But a random dude with no ties whatsoever to the Tigers who just really wants to make sure that no consequences attach to Morris in this situation... uh... less so.
Do you have a reason for leaping to Morris' defense? Because regardless of how "bad" what he said was, the only reason I could see feeling compelled to argue publicly that it shouldn't be grounds for dismissal is if you think "eh, sounds like something I might say and I sure don't want those pitchforks coming for me."
Should Devin Funchess have been released by the Packers after recently telling reporters he can tell they’re smiling through their masks because their eyes get all “ch*nky”?
He was reprimanded by the Packers, nothing more, and it was barely covered anywhere, especially after the Packers reprimand the day after the remarks.
You ok how that was handled?
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Should Devin Funchess have been released by the Packers after recently telling reporters he can tell they’re smiling through their masks because their eyes get all “ch*nky”?
He was reprimanded by the Packers, nothing more, and it was barely covered anywhere, especially after the Packers reprimand the day after the remarks.
You ok how that was handled?
He did not have a history of this. As I said, if someone says something stupid and then apologizes, I am fine.
If someone has a long history and then issues an apology putting the onus on those he offended, yes, he should be canned.
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Should Devin Funchess have been released by the Packers after recently telling reporters he can tell they’re smiling through their masks because their eyes get all “ch*nky”?
He was reprimanded by the Packers, nothing more, and it was barely covered anywhere, especially after the Packers reprimand the day after the remarks.
You ok how that was handled?
Maybe? I actually wasn't expressing much of an opinion as to whether Morris should be canned (I don't know him, his reputation, or the severity of 'offense' associated with what he said given who I am and the communities with which I am familiar). I was more trying to get at the "why cape for the Tigers' color guy on a message board?" thing. As in, what precisely motivates someone to leap to the defense of a rich stranger accused of some degree of racial insensitivity?
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accused of some degree of racial insensitivity?
I don't care if Morris gets fired or not. I'm certainly not going to defend some old dude who is likely set in his ways. But I was struck, yet again, how nobody seems to know how to differentiate between racially insensitive and racist anymore.
It was a dumb tone deaf statement/phrasing. And he absolutely should have apologized. But he didn't use a slur. He didn't use some terrible stereotype about Ohtani, etc...
I always feel like the dialouge about this kind of stuff could get less bombastic in a hurry if an aggressive lightning rod designation of "racist" wasn't automatically slapped on everything that wasn't correct or acceptable pertaining to race or a group.
I think Funchess' statement was benign in intent and likely a key learning moment, but at least there was a racist slur in the core to get the label.
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I don't care if Morris gets fired or not. I'm certainly not going to defend some old dude who is likely set in his ways. But I was struck, yet again, how nobody seems to know how to differentiate between racially insensitive and racist anymore.
Your last statement is spot on. He obviously was trying to be funny but his statement showed insensitivity. As a one off, no big deal. Apologize, move on, and ignore the Twitterverse.
I don’t think it was a one off, though.
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It was a dumb tone deaf statement/phrasing. And he absolutely should have apologized. But he didn't use a slur. He didn't use some terrible stereotype about Ohtani, etc...
He did use a stereotype. The voice he used is a stereotype for those of Asian descent.
I don't care if Morris gets fired or not. I'm certainly not going to defend some old dude who is likely set in his ways. But I was struck, yet again, how nobody seems to know how to differentiate between racially insensitive and racist anymore.
I always feel like the dialouge about this kind of stuff could get less bombastic in a hurry if an aggressive lightning rod designation of "racist" wasn't automatically slapped on everything that wasn't correct or acceptable pertaining to race or a group.
I used to think this way. I used to always make an effort to meet people where they were at. If they were uncomfortable with the term racist, I would switch to racially biased.
I do this less now, because what I found is that over time, those people who were grateful that I didn't say racist and said racially biased instead...started to use the same arguments they did about labeling something racist whenever I said racially biased. "Come on, that wasn't biased. I'm not a biased person. I was maybe insensitive but I wasn't biased." My guess is that if I switched to insensitive, they'd eventually complain about that too.
In my experience, arguing about what to label something, is usually just a tool to distract from the fact that something problematic was done/said.
It's honestly a fascinating topic. Because in a way people being accused for racism are trying to say that racism is a bigger deal and those accusing others of racism are actually saying it's a lesser deal. The problems come up when either A) Those who want to make it a bigger deal then use that to dismiss all the lesser concerns or B) Those who want to make it a lesser deal try to treat those accused of low-level racism (i.e. making a single racially insensitive comment) the same as the accused of high-level racism (white supremacists).
I've jokingly said that we need a leveling system like they have in law. Racism in the first is reserved for the white supremacists. Racism in the 5th is for everyday microagressions.
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He did use a stereotype. The voice he used is a stereotype for those of Asian descent.
I dont want to split hairs, but its not like Ohtani is an Asian American who grew up in Cali, or Washington, or even Hawaii like Kolten Wong. He's Japanese and has an accent, like any Asian person growing up in Asia who speaks English as second language. If someone talked with a British accent during an Andy Murray tennis match or did some terrible impression of an African accent about Embiid, it wouldn't be a stereotype, it would be imitating their accent, no?
I used to think this way. I used to always make an effort to meet people where they were at. If they were uncomfortable with the term racist, I would switch to racially biased.
I do this less now, because what I found is that over time, those people who were grateful that I didn't say racist and said racially biased instead...started to use the same arguments they did about labeling something racist whenever I said racially biased. "Come on, that wasn't biased. I'm not a biased person. I was maybe insensitive but I wasn't biased." My guess is that if I switched to insensitive, they'd eventually complain about that too.
In my experience, arguing about what to label something, is usually just a tool to distract from the fact that something problematic was done/said.
It's honestly a fascinating topic. Because in a way people being accused for racism are trying to say that racism is a bigger deal and those accusing others of racism are actually saying it's a lesser deal. The problems come up when either A) Those who want to make it a bigger deal then use that to dismiss all the lesser concerns or B) Those who want to make it a lesser deal try to treat those accused of low-level racism (i.e. making a single racially insensitive comment) the same as the accused of high-level racism (white supremacists).
I've jokingly said that we need a leveling system like they have in law. Racism in the first is reserved for the white supremacists. Racism in the 5th is for everyday microagressions.
Fair points all around. But again, I think the "racially biased" is even different than insensitive. My Grandma, until recently thankfully, still called Asian people "Oriental". There was nothing racist behind it, and she had no bias against them, it was just an racially insensitive, dated term.
I guess its more a boy who cried wolf thing for me. I'm not even talking about the feelings of the person, like Morris in this case, who did the offense. I'm talking more the peripheral discussion about what is wrong about it to try and affect change or alter people's ways of thinking. If every race related misstep is branded "RAYCESS", its easy to to stick to the "I'm not calling anyone the N word or assuming all Latino immigrants are lazy and untrustworthy, it was just a joke, people are too sensitive these days" safe space. That sort of label just shuts everything down IMO.
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Imitating how Asian Americans talk in a stereotypical manner is racist. Period. Sorry if I don’t want to soft-sell that because someone needs a teachable moment.
I mean holy sh*t, how does anyone not know that?
To be clear, I am talking about Morris in a television booth here. I don’t think your grandmother should be broadcasting TV games either.
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Suspended indefinitely.
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Cardinals Devil Magic wore off in the 10th tonight.
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“Lance Lynn ejected after throwing belt at umpire”
2020 me has so many questions.
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Now that we're talking baseball again, last night's game had a playoff feel to it by all accounts. No doubt the Cards have been playing well and have half an eye on a Wild Card spot with the way San Diego has been faltering. But the Crew would have none of it, even with Freddie having to leave the game early. Contributions from every single guy on the roster who, to a man, absolutely believe this team is special.
I think they have a real shot to do what hasn't been done in Milwaukee since 1957. Far from guaranteed of course, but a legitimate shot. If that turns out to be true, you heard it here first.
Oh, and thanks to the Iowa Cubs these past couple days.
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Ohtani hit his 40th home run and pitched 8 innings last night. He’s turning into the most unbelievable ball player if I’ve ever seen.
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I dont want to split hairs, but its not like Ohtani is an Asian American who grew up in Cali, or Washington, or even Hawaii like Kolten Wong. He's Japanese and has an accent, like any Asian person growing up in Asia who speaks English as second language. If someone talked with a British accent during an Andy Murray tennis match or did some terrible impression of an African accent about Embiid, it wouldn't be a stereotype, it would be imitating their accent, no?
No. Just no. On air journalists should not use any accent other than their own while broadcasting.
Fair points all around. But again, I think the "racially biased" is even different than insensitive. My Grandma, until recently thankfully, still called Asian people "Oriental". There was nothing racist behind it, and she had no bias against them, it was just an racially insensitive, dated term.
I guess its more a boy who cried wolf thing for me. I'm not even talking about the feelings of the person, like Morris in this case, who did the offense. I'm talking more the peripheral discussion about what is wrong about it to try and affect change or alter people's ways of thinking. If every race related misstep is branded "RAYCESS", its easy to to stick to the "I'm not calling anyone the N word or assuming all Latino immigrants are lazy and untrustworthy, it was just a joke, people are too sensitive these days" safe space. That sort of label just shuts everything down IMO.
I think it's problematic to quickly label others A racist. Labeling individual actions, statements, etc. as racist is different. Quick use of the noun is a problem, quick use of the verb is less so IMO. The problem we get is that the adjective racist for some covers the whole spectrum, from minor microagressions to hate crimes. For others, it is a word that should only be reserved for the worst of the worst...and even then you have to "know the person's heart" in order to attach the label to the action. The first definition is much more correct than the second one.
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“Lance Lynn ejected after throwing belt at umpire”
I think we just found out how to get around MLB’s stupid 3-batter rule. Bring in a LOOGY, and after he gets the LH out, just have him throw his belt at Joe West. Problem solved.
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Now that we're talking baseball again, last night's game had a playoff feel to it by all accounts. No doubt the Cards have been playing well and have half an eye on a Wild Card spot with the way San Diego has been faltering. But the Crew would have none of it, even with Freddie having to leave the game early. Contributions from every single guy on the roster who, to a man, absolutely believe this team is special.
I think they have a real shot to do what hasn't been done in Milwaukee since 1957. Far from guaranteed of course, but a legitimate shot. If that turns out to be true, you heard it here first.
Oh, and thanks to the Iowa Cubs these past couple days.
We never stopped talking about baseball Glow. Race is a part of everything, even baseball.
But I am amazed how quickly this turned from, the NL wildcard is set with the Reds having an outside shot at catching the Padres into 6 teams (one of whom will win the NL East) have a legitimate shot at a wildcard berth. Maybe the Cardinals did make a good trade *ducks*
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Now that we're talking baseball again, last night's game had a playoff feel to it by all accounts. No doubt the Cards have been playing well and have half an eye on a Wild Card spot with the way San Diego has been faltering. But the Crew would have none of it, even with Freddie having to leave the game early. Contributions from every single guy on the roster who, to a man, absolutely believe this team is special.
I think they have a real shot to do what hasn't been done in Milwaukee since 1957. Far from guaranteed of course, but a legitimate shot. If that turns out to be true, you heard it here first.
Oh, and thanks to the Iowa Cubs these past couple days.
Brother Glow,
The Cardinals have been playing well as of late because they had three games against Pittsburgh and six against the Kansas City Royals. Had they played the Iowa/Wrigley Cubs instead of the Brewers, that streak would have been longer and stronger.
The Cardinals lack cohesiveness, a bullpen that does something other than pour gasoline into an opponent's run scoring machine and they don't play station-to-station baseball. Not to mention Flaherty was out a good part of the season and Dakota Hudson had Tommy John surgery. Injuries are a part of any major league season but the Cardinals haven't plugged the holes caused by the loss of Flaherty and Hudson.
This Cardinal team is like the 1980s Cardinals -- holes everywhere. They have about as much chance at the Wildcard as the Iowa/Wrigley Cubs do.
All this from a hard core Cardinal fan too!
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I think we just found out how to get around MLB’s stupid 3-batter rule. Bring in a LOOGY, and after he gets the LH out, just have him throw his belt at Joe West. Problem solved.
This is amazing, and I cannot wait for Craig Counsell to deploy this in Game 7 of the NLCS
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This Cardinal team is like the 1980s Cardinals -- holes everywhere.
I think you’re thinking of the 90’s Cardinals, who outside of ‘96 never finished better than 10 GB.
There are a lot of very bad baseball teams right now, (Cubs, Orioles, Pirates, DBacks, most of the AL Central), which is allowing mediocre teams go on winning streaks. It happens every season.
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Ohtani hit his 40th home run and pitched 8 innings last night. He’s turning into the most unbelievable ball player if I’ve ever seen.
I'm surprised MLB is not putting the Angels in the 2022 Field of Dreams game, so they can showcase Ohtani.
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No. Just no. On air journalists should not use any accent other than their own while broadcasting.
FWIW, I wasn't saying anyone should. Its hacky at best, offensive at worst. I was just saying it wasn't stereotyping.
Otherwise good post overall. Though calling retired player color commentators "journalists" is generous ;D
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I think you’re thinking of the 90’s Cardinals, who outside of ‘96 never finished better than 10 GB.
There are a lot of very bad baseball teams right now, (Cubs, Orioles, Pirates, DBacks, most of the AL Central), which is allowing mediocre teams go on winning streaks. It happens every season.
Brother Inferiority:
My reference should have been to the 1980 St. Louis Cardinals. They were awful though they had high-salaried, high visibility players. Whitey Herzog came in and shook them up big time. Got rid of Ted Simmons and a host of others. By 1982, they were World Champions.
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I'm surprised MLB is not putting the Angels in the 2022 Field of Dreams game, so they can showcase Ohtani.
I'm not surprised by any of the new and innovative ways MLB finds to not market its stars.
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Brother Glow,
The Cardinals have been playing well as of late because they had three games against Pittsburgh and six against the Kansas City Royals. Had they played the Iowa/Wrigley Cubs instead of the Brewers, that streak would have been longer and stronger.
The Cardinals lack cohesiveness, a bullpen that does something other than pour gasoline into an opponent's run scoring machine and they don't play station-to-station baseball. Not to mention Flaherty was out a good part of the season and Dakota Hudson had Tommy John surgery. Injuries are a part of any major league season but the Cardinals haven't plugged the holes caused by the loss of Flaherty and Hudson.
This Cardinal team is like the 1980s Cardinals -- holes everywhere. They have about as much chance at the Wildcard as the Iowa/Wrigley Cubs do.
All this from a hard core Cardinal fan too!
I do have to say again how impressed I am with David Stearns. Adames, Tellez and Escobar have been incredible mid-season acquisitions. In addition, the way they weathered the Covid outbreak demonstrates the depth of their pitching staff.
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Brother Inferiority:
My reference should have been to the 1980 St. Louis Cardinals. They were awful though they had high-salaried, high visibility players. Whitey Herzog came in and shook them up big time. Got rid of Ted Simmons and a host of others. By 1982, they were World Champions.
Heresy, that’s not “The Cardinal Way”… or so I’ve been told.
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Heresy, that’s not “The Cardinal Way”… or so I’ve been told.
Shoothoops cracks his knuckles in preparation for his latest dissertation.
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I'm not surprised by any of the new and innovative ways MLB finds to not market its stars.
Great point. MUFiC is absolutely right about Ohtani, who is one of the most incredible ballplayers any of us have ever seen.
As for many pundits comparing Ohtani to Babe Ruth, the only other big-leaguer ever to both hit and pitch at a high level ...
From 1915-19, Ruth was 87-45 with a 2.16 ERA and 104 CG. In 1916-17, he averaged 23.5 wins, 325 IP, 29 CG and 7.5 ShO. Oh, and he also had the longest scoreless streak ever in the World Series (29 2/3 innings) until Whitey Ford broke his record 43 years later.
And as a hitter, he obviously was a legend with a long career of stellar accomplishments.
By the time he became known as the Sultan of Swat, however, Ruth was no longer a pitcher ... although in his last season with the Red Sox, 1919, the 24-year-old Babe went 9-5 with a 2.97 ERA and 12 CG while hitting 29 HR with 113 RBI and a 1.114 OPS.
(After that, he made only 5 more pitching appearances.)
Ohtani has only been healthy enough to have one full season of batting/pitching, and he's getting it done: 40 HR, 87 RBI, 1.011 OPS and an 8-1 record with 2.78 ERA.
Those numbers compare quite favorably to Ruth's in 1919.
Still, while I love watching Ohtani -- IMHO he's the only must-see player in MLB -- and while I certainly understand the comparisons to Ruth, I'm not gonna get carried away with those comparisons.
By the time Babe was Ohtani's age (27), he arguably was already the greatest player in baseball history. Ohtani is incredible ... but he ain't quite that!
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Great point. MUFiC is absolutely right about Ohtani, who is one of the most incredible ballplayers any of us have ever seen.
As for many pundits comparing Ohtani to Babe Ruth, the only other big-leaguer ever to both hit and pitch at a high level ...
From 1915-19, Ruth was 87-45 with a 2.16 ERA and 104 CG. In 1916-17, he averaged 23.5 wins, 325 IP, 29 CG and 7.5 ShO. Oh, and he also had the longest scoreless streak ever in the World Series (29 2/3 innings) until Whitey Ford broke his record 43 years later.
And as a hitter, he obviously was a legend with a long career of stellar accomplishments.
By the time he became known as the Sultan of Swat, however, Ruth was no longer a pitcher ... although in his last season with the Red Sox, 1919, the 24-year-old Babe went 9-5 with a 2.97 ERA and 12 CG while hitting 29 HR with 113 RBI and a 1.114 OPS.
(After that, he made only 5 more pitching appearances.)
Ohtani has only been healthy enough to have one full season of batting/pitching, and he's getting it done: 40 HR, 87 RBI, 1.011 OPS and an 8-1 record with 2.78 ERA.
Those numbers compare quite favorably to Ruth's in 1919.
Still, while I love watching Ohtani -- IMHO he's the only must-see player in MLB -- and while I certainly understand the comparisons to Ruth, I'm not gonna get carried away with those comparisons.
By the time Babe was Ohtani's age (27), he arguably was already the greatest player in baseball history. Ohtani is incredible ... but he ain't quite that!
Ohtani is the Markus Howard of baseball. Flashy stats, no wins when it counts.
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I'm surprised MLB is not putting the Angels in the 2022 Field of Dreams game, so they can showcase Ohtani.
The Cornfield Classic is not my idea of major league baseball. Good lord, Dubuque could not even support an "A" League baseball team at a time when Clinton, Davenport and Burlington could.
They're going to have the Iowa/Wrigley Cubs playing there next year, so at least one team will feel at home walking in from a cornfield. Wonder whether Arnold the Pig (Ziffel) will be their mascot?
My sportswriter brother told me Dyersville is "someplace special." I reminded him I married into a large family from Dubuque years ago and that the only thing Western Dubuque County is noted for is corn, hogs and occasional beef cattle. The folks out there are nice and their labor important, but if you're going to see the home of the Cornfield Classic, let me know if the Hee Haw Honeys entertain between innings.
By the way, the restaurant scene in Dubuque is much improved in recent years. If you're going out to check out a cornfield, go to dinner near downtown so your trip won't be a total waste.
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Ohtani is the Markus Howard of baseball. Flashy stats, no wins when it counts.
Ha!
He is gonna be third Angel to be AL MVP since 2016 (Trout got it in '16 and '19); those teams were a combined 47 games out of the last wild-card spot and 30 games under .500 ... and counting, as this season isn't finished yet.
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Ha!
He is gonna be third Angel to be AL MVP since 2016 (Trout got it in '16 and '19); those teams were a combined 47 games out of the last wild-card spot and 30 games under .500 ... and counting, as this season isn't finished yet.
Giving MVPs to bad teammates. Sad!
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The Cornfield Classic is not my idea of major league baseball. Good lord, Dubuque could not even support an "A" League baseball team at a time when Clinton, Davenport and Burlington could.
They're going to have the Iowa/Wrigley Cubs playing there next year, so at least one team will feel at home walking in from a cornfield. Wonder whether Arnold the Pig (Ziffel) will be their mascot?
My sportswriter brother told me Dyersville is "someplace special." I reminded him I married into a large family from Dubuque years ago and that the only thing Western Dubuque County is noted for is corn, hogs and occasional beef cattle. The folks out there are nice and their labor important, but if you're going to see the home of the Cornfield Classic, let me know if the Hee Haw Honeys entertain between innings.
By the way, the restaurant scene in Dubuque is much improved in recent years. If you're going out to check out a cornfield, go to dinner near downtown so your trip won't be a total waste.
It’s ok to say you are bummed the Cardinals didn’t get invited.
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It’s ok to say you are bummed the Cardinals didn’t get invited.
2023
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It’s ok to say you are bummed the Cardinals didn’t get invited.
Cardinals are above playing in gimmick games
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Cardinals are above playing in gimmick games
Not to mention a bad day in St. Louis will far outdraw anything put together for the Cornfield Classic.
Much rather watch them at Busch
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Not to mention a bad day in St. Louis will far outdraw anything put together for the Cornfield Classic.
Much rather watch them at Busch
https://www.google.com/amp/s/redbirdrants.com/2021/08/19/st-louis-cardinals-fans-show-frustration-disappointing-season/amp/
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Cardinals are above playing in gimmick games
The food in Dyersville is better than St. Louis.
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Not to mention a bad day in St. Louis will far outdraw anything put together for the Cornfield Classic.
Much rather watch them at Busch
Math isn’t your friend here, the gate for the Field of Dreams game would at minimum double what a crowd of 40,000 at Busch would bring in.
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This would be nice timing for Yelich’s welcome back party.
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This would be nice timing for Yelich’s welcome back party.
If Yelly is back to 2018 form, the Brewers could win it all.
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If Yelly is back to 2018 form, the Brewers could win it all.
He's been hitting hard hit outs and has dropped his ego (bunting, comments from tonight about "coming through.for once".
All signs pointing in the right direction. Let's hope he gets red hot.
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The Mets epic collapse is very on brand.
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Understandably a lot of attention on Yelich’s day hitting, but Wong tagging and scoring on a foul pop near home plate is one of the greatest base running plays I’ve ever seen! If you’re a baseball fan, check it out, it’s really special.
What a fabulous addition Wong has been, really good all around player.
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Understandably a lot of attention on Yelich’s day hitting, but Wong tagging and scoring on a foul pop near home plate is one of the greatest base running plays I’ve ever seen! If you’re a baseball fan, check it out, it’s really special.
What a fabulous addition Wong has been, really good all around player.
Well, aside from the nightly excitement of Baez, of course.
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Cubs did it again yesterday. Royal’s pitcher has a no-no in progress, so they declare a rain delay. Wait a half hour (no rain) and just say “never mind”. Ruin a chance of a lifetime for a young pitcher.
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Cubs did it again yesterday. Royal’s pitcher has a no-no in progress, so they declare a rain delay. Wait a half hour (no rain) and just say “never mind”. Ruin a chance of a lifetime for a young pitcher.
I believe once the game starts, it is in the hands of the umpires. Unless starting the game was a poor decision, I don’t think you can blame the Cubs here.
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I believe once the game starts, it is in the hands of the umpires. Unless starting the game was a poor decision, I don’t think you can blame the Cubs here.
I think that is generally the case. I don’t think it is at Wrigley. I was listening to an interview with Matheny this morning and he left the impression that Wrigley is different.
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I think that is generally the case. I don’t think it is at Wrigley. I was listening to an interview with Matheny this morning and he left the impression that Wrigley is different.
FWIW, it wasn't a "rain delay". Wrigley has a firm rule that they clear out the lower bowl if there is lightning within 5 miles of Wrigley, and play is automatically stopped if there is lightning within 3 miles. I think I read lightning was within a mile or so yesterday. Even if its sunny. I was at a game a few years ago that went into lightning delay when it was sunny at Wrigley, but you could see ominous clouds to the West. And the Cubs were winning handily 8-)
You can call it a dumb rule, but its not subjective and certainly wasn't strategic
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FWIW, it wasn't a "rain delay". Wrigley has a firm rule that they clear out the lower bowl if there is lightning within 5 miles of Wrigley, and play is automatically stopped if there is lightning within 3 miles. I think I read lightning was within a mile or so yesterday. Even if its sunny. I was at a game a few years ago that went into lightning delay when it was sunny at Wrigley, but you could see ominous clouds to the West. And the Cubs were winning handily 8-)
You can call it a dumb rule, but its not subjective and certainly wasn't strategic
Thanks for the info.
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The Mets epic collapse is very on brand.
Word. They're toast seemingly.
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Understandably a lot of attention on Yelich’s day hitting, but Wong tagging and scoring on a foul pop near home plate is one of the greatest base running plays I’ve ever seen! If you’re a baseball fan, check it out, it’s really special.
What a fabulous addition Wong has been, really good all around player.
I've never seen it before. Wong is special. Another great Stearns acquisition.
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Brewers have won 8 of their last 9 series.
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Brewers have won 8 of their last 9 series.
Even more impressive is that the only one they lost was because of a bullpen ravaged by Covid.
If they make it 9 of 10, the race is over.
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Even more impressive is that the only one they lost was because of a bullpen ravaged by Covid.
If they make it 9 of 10, the race is over.
They need the race to be over. The Reds are hot (against bad teams, but you beat the teams in front of you) and have been a pain in the ass. Brewers could really use putting this to bed to get healthy after losing Peralta, Taylor and Escobar in quick succession
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They need the race to be over. The Reds are hot (against bad teams, but you beat the teams in front of you) and have been a pain in the ass. Brewers could really use putting this to bed to get healthy after losing Peralta, Taylor and Escobar in quick succession
I don't get the pessimism. Freddy will miss one turn, Taylor is the 5th OF and we'll have to wait on Escobar's hammy but a 10 day IR seems likely. Rowdy! Rowdy! The Reds are playing well but so is the Crew. In fact, I wonder if anybody is playing better since the ASB. (Not going to look.)
What I do know is that over the last 20 games: Crew 14-6; Reds 13-7. Oh, and the Crew got decimated by Covid and survived. The Reds are a legitimate playoff team enjoying the trip to the west coast for a road WC game is my guess. Win 1 or 2 this week and we're fine.
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I don't get the pessimism. Freddy will miss one turn, Taylor is the 5th OF and we'll have to wait on Escobar's hammy but a 10 day IR seems likely. Rowdy! Rowdy! The Reds are playing well but so is the Crew. In fact, I wonder if anybody is playing better since the ASB. (Not going to look.)
What I do know is that over the last 20 games: Crew 14-6; Reds 13-7. Oh, and the Crew got decimated by Covid and survived. The Reds are a legitimate playoff team enjoying the trip to the west coast for a road WC game is my guess. Win 1 or 2 this week and we're fine.
I agree about no need for pessimism. But I expect Peralta to miss more than one start. I hope so and think Counsel may keep him out a couple extra starts to give him a rest.
But shoulder injuries are the worst enemy a pitcher can have. I’m hoping for the best, but I still have Teddy Higuera nightmares.
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I don't get the pessimism. Freddy will miss one turn, Taylor is the 5th OF and we'll have to wait on Escobar's hammy but a 10 day IR seems likely. Rowdy! Rowdy! The Reds are playing well but so is the Crew. In fact, I wonder if anybody is playing better since the ASB. (Not going to look.)
What I do know is that over the last 20 games: Crew 14-6; Reds 13-7. Oh, and the Crew got decimated by Covid and survived. The Reds are a legitimate playoff team enjoying the trip to the west coast for a road WC game is my guess. Win 1 or 2 this week and we're fine.
To be clear, I'm not even remotely worried about the division. But as soon as it is locked up, the Crew can turn their attention to more strategic rest days.
Tons to be optimistic about right now, and it's with this in mind it'd be nice to finish off a pesky Reds team
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Even more impressive is that the only one they lost was because of a bullpen ravaged by Covid.
Plus, if Avi Garcia catches what should have been a routine flyout, they would have won that series where they were ravaged by COVID
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Plus, if Avi Garcia catches what should have been a routine flyout, they would have won that series where they were ravaged by COVID
Never mind. My bad.
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Plus, if Avi Garcia catches what should have been a routine flyout, they would have won that series where they were ravaged by COVID
Yeah, that one stung a little. But they've had a remarkable ability to shake off tough losses and move on.
Now I want to bring up a new topic. This Aaron Ashby kid looks to be the real deal. Yeah, I watched the Cubs rock him 2 months ago when nerves got the better of him. But in his last 3 spot outings he's been outstanding for a 23 yr old kid who had never pitched above high A ball before this year. Lo Cain had very high praise following his long Nashville rehab. Couns has said he'll take the Corbin Burnes path this year. And did any of you see the approving nod from Soto after he gassed him at 99? Love it. Kid will absolutely contribute down the stretch.
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Yeah, that one stung a little. But they've had a remarkable ability to shake off tough losses and move on.
Now I want to bring up a new topic. This Aaron Ashby kid looks to be the real deal. Yeah, I watched the Cubs rock him 2 months ago when nerves got the better of him. But in his last 3 spot outings he's been outstanding for a 23 yr old kid who had never pitched above high A ball before this year. Lo Cain had very high praise following his long Nashville rehab. Couns has said he'll take the Corbin Burnes path this year. And did any of you see the approving nod from Soto after he gassed him at 99? Love it. Kid will absolutely contribute down the stretch.
It’s remarkable how the organization has developed pitchers since Stearns came aboard.
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It’s remarkable how the organization has developed pitchers since Stearns came aboard.
Agreed. The Pitching Lab is wizardry as best I can tell. A small market team being able to develop a Cy Young candidate, let alone three within a stone's throw, is incredible and frankly, transforms the staying power of this team.
They won't be able to pay all of these guys, but that gives you the ability to re-load. Let's hope there's a WS before then.
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You don’t get to choose your opponents, but the White Sox are 20-25 against teams with a winning record.
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The Cubs almost went a month without winning at home.
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The Cubs almost went a month without winning at home.
Wonderful gifts from the baseball Gods.
Too bad my Cardinals suck too!
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You don’t get to choose your opponents, but the White Sox are 20-25 against teams with a winning record.
Makes zero difference, 7 of the last 19 WS champs have finished .500 or worse in the regular season against teams over .500.
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Makes zero difference, 7 of the last 19 WS champs have finished .500 or worse in the regular season against teams over .500.
Just out of curiosity, why would you limit that stat to 19 years? It’s a weird number. As far as I can remember nothing changed in MLB 19 years ago. Playoffs have been expanded, teams have been added, etc but I don’t think any of that happened 19 years ago.
Like I get using stats to push a narrative- and I’m not even against it- but a cut-off date of 19 years ago just looks so artificial. I’m assuming it’s got to at least be 7 of the last 20, right?
Is it also 7 of the last 25?
Has it only happened 7 times, with the first instance being 19 years ago? Maybe that’s it.
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Just out of curiosity, why would you limit that stat to 19 years? It’s a weird number. As far as I can remember nothing changed in MLB 19 years ago. Playoffs have been expanded, teams have been added, etc but I don’t think any of that happened 19 years ago.
Like I get using stats to push a narrative- and I’m not even against it- but a cut-off date of 19 years ago just looks so artificial. I’m assuming it’s got to at least be 7 of the last 20, right?
Is it also 7 of the last 25?
Has it only happened 7 times, with the first instance being 19 years ago? Maybe that’s it.
Quite honestly, convenient that the stat is on Twitter and quickly available. That’s the sole reason I stole it.
The Sox aren’t getting blown out for the most part against teams over .500. Their run differential against teams over .500 is -9. By comparison, the Yankees are -20.
They’ve got plenty of problems from injuries, bullpen performance, poor defense, lulls where they don’t collectively hit for stretches of games, but at the end of August with a comfortable lead, I’m concerned mostly about them getting healthy.
They very well could get curb stomped by the Astros in the first round, but I’d like to see them try at full strength (which they haven’t been all year).
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Brewers put on a show for the new boss in the 7th last night.
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A solid win when one of your aces has an off night. The Reds weakness is their pen. That was their late inning 'A team' of trade deadline acquisitions (Givens and Cessa) that failed them last night.
Let's hope Woody's recent 'struggles' end tonight and the Crew can rack up another series win. That'll get us one step closer to locking it up, eh GB Warrior? :)
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I really don't follow baseball much but it seems to me that after the Dodgers the Brewers have as good a chance as anyone. It sounds like Yelich is coming around a bit and their overall hitting is better than I thought. Statistically no one jumps off the page but it's a capable overall line-up.
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I really don't follow baseball much but it seems to me that after the Dodgers the Brewers have as good a chance as anyone. It sounds like Yelich is coming around a bit and their overall hitting is better than I thought. Statistically no one jumps off the page but it's a capable overall line-up.
Right now, FanGraphs has them with the second best odds to win the WS among National League teams - behind the Dodgers.
Dodgers: 21.5%
Astros: 14.7%
White Sox: 12.4%
Brewers: 11.0%
Yankees: 10.7%
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I really don't follow baseball much but it seems to me that after the Dodgers the Brewers have as good a chance as anyone. It sounds like Yelich is coming around a bit and their overall hitting is better than I thought. Statistically no one jumps off the page but it's a capable overall line-up.
I can’t find it but I thought I saw a stat saying the Brewers had one of the lower k rates in baseball, a pretty big reversal from a year ago
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Series win should basically lock up the division for the Brewers, but my God do the Reds have an easy second half schedule. Including games played since the All Star break, they play...
6 with the Brewers (2 remaining to play)
6 with the Mets
9 with the Cardinals (6 remaining to play)
10 with the Cubs (3 remaining to play)
2 with the Twins
13 with the Pirates (9 remaining to play)
1 with Cleveland
3 with Atlanta
3 with Phili
7 with the Marlins (3 remaining to play)
3 with the Tigers (3 remaining to play)
3 with the Dodgers (3 remaining to play)
4 with the Nationals (4 remaining to play)
2 with the White Sox (2 remaining to play)
Of their 35 games remaining, only 13 are against teams above .500, and 6 of those are against the 63-61 Cardinals.
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Series win should basically lock up the division for the Brewers, but my God do the Pirates have an easy second half schedule. Including games played since the All Star break, they play...
6 with the Brewers (2 remaining to play)
6 with the Mets
9 with the Cardinals (6 remaining to play)
10 with the Cubs (3 remaining to play)
2 with the Twins
13 with the Pirates (9 remaining to play)
1 with Cleveland
3 with Atlanta
3 with Phili
7 with the Marlins (3 remaining to play)
3 with the Tigers (3 remaining to play)
3 with the Dodgers (3 remaining to play)
4 with the Nationals (4 remaining to play)
2 with the White Sox (2 remaining to play)
Of their 35 games remaining, only 13 are against teams above .500, and 6 of those are against the 63-61 Cardinals.
Don’t underestimate the Cardinals. With the veteran leadership of Yadier Molina, anything is possible
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Series win should basically lock up the division for the Brewers, but my God do the Pirates have an easy second half schedule. Including games played since the All Star break, they play...
6 with the Brewers (2 remaining to play)
6 with the Mets
9 with the Cardinals (6 remaining to play)
10 with the Cubs (3 remaining to play)
2 with the Twins
13 with the Pirates (9 remaining to play)
1 with Cleveland
3 with Atlanta
3 with Phili
7 with the Marlins (3 remaining to play)
3 with the Tigers (3 remaining to play)
3 with the Dodgers (3 remaining to play)
4 with the Nationals (4 remaining to play)
2 with the White Sox (2 remaining to play)
Of their 35 games remaining, only 13 are against teams above .500, and 6 of those are against the 63-61 Cardinals.
Somehow I'm sure the Pirates will find a way to lose these games.
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Somehow I'm sure the Pirates will find a way to lose these games.
Hah. Good catch.
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Don’t underestimate the Cardinals. With the veteran leadership of Yadier Molina, anything is possible
And even if they don’t make it, they’ll lose the right way.
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Yadier Molina announces next year will be his last year. Stickum sales will plummet in St. Louis but less umpires will be spit on
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I don't mind rooting for the Brewers even though I'm a Chi guy and bandwagoning. I can't root for the Packers. Frankly, having the Bucks/Brewers contending is good for MU imo. It's a pretty good time to be sports fan in Wisconsin. Now we need to find a way to turn the corner. We'll have our ups and downs this year but I do think we have better potential than predicted.
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I’m just going to skip watching White Sox 8th innings.
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Great bounce back outing for Woodruff, bats continue to do enough. Wong was a great signing.
The biggest piece of the contributions the whole lineup has given is it has afforded the brewers to be cautious with their injuries. Allowing Escobar two weeks to heal, Adames is a little banged up so they can give him a little extra time as well.
Huge series win.
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I don't mind rooting for the Brewers even though I'm a Chi guy and bandwagoning.
If the Cubs can’t win, (and I’m beginning to think this isn’t their year), my second choices always are:
2. Pirates
3. Brewers
4. Reds
5. Getting hit by a bus
1,640. Cardinals
I actively root against the White Sox. I blame that on Sox fans who won’t let me root for the Cubs in peace.
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Rain delay at Skydome.
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Yadier Molina announces next year will be his last year. Stickum sales will plummet in St. Louis but less umpires will be spit on
I'm just glad he can have a farewell tour where all opposing teams can beanball him
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Rain delay at Skydome.
If I’m not mistaken, Miller Park has at least two rain delays.
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If the Cubs can’t win, (and I’m beginning to think this isn’t their year), my second choices always are:
2. Pirates
3. Brewers
4. Reds
5. Getting hit by a bus
1,640. Cardinals
I actively root against the White Sox. I blame that on Sox fans who won’t let me root for the Cubs in peace.
Your post made me chuckle. We're happy to have you on the bandwagon this year. The Crew is historically good and a likable bunch of guys. Cheer us on all the way to a pennant and beyond.
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I thought this was an awesome article that talks about a lot of the baseball fixes we kick around and how MLB is trying them out in the Atlantic League - https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/how-mlb-pushed-back-the-atlantic-league-mound-and-pushed-fed-up-players-to-the-brink-of-a-work-stoppage/ (https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/how-mlb-pushed-back-the-atlantic-league-mound-and-pushed-fed-up-players-to-the-brink-of-a-work-stoppage/)
What's funny to me is the strong pushback a lot of the changes get, either individually or in the aggregate, only for the reaction after the fact to be "eh I guess it wasn't that big of a deal." I get the frustration from the Atlantic League players on being guinea pigs, but I guess the only strong sympathy I feel for that is if there are changes that legitimately could cause increased injury risks. For example, I'm kind of shocked that pushing the mound back wasn't a bigger deal. I'm still against that as a change because I fear that it starts to look like Tiger-proofing golf courses after awhile and the knee jerk answer is to push the mound back everytime scoring and attendance are down.
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Andrew Albers and the Twins pen blank the Crew
That’s a low point
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That’s a low point
Here we are, 7.5 games up and 27 over .500 with all these problems.
The real low point was Brian Gorman's performance behind the plate. Lordy he was awful.
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Here we are, 7.5 games up and 27 over .500 with all these problems.
The real low point was Brian Gorman's performance behind the plate. Lordy he was awful.
Yeah he was a huge reason for the 2-0 final score.
His zone started brutally tight early. And then expanded to anything and everything being a strike.
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Andrew Albers and the Twins pen blank the Crew
That’s a low point
I went to the game last night. Probably 60/40 Brewers fans to twins fans.
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Andrew Albers and the Twins pen blank the Crew
That’s a low point
It's one game out of 162. Meaningless.
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Patrick Wisdom can play, impressed by that dude.
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It's one game out of 162. Meaningless.
The Twins and Charlie Barnes win again
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The Twins and Charlie Barnes win again
So what.
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So what.
So they won again. I couldn’t have been anymore clear
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Safe to say that Javy Baez is the best booer in baseball?
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Safe to say that Javy Baez is the best booer in baseball?
Just another example of baseball taking themself entirely too seriously. Buster Olney clutching his pearls online over it, saying Baez is damaging his FA options, gimme a break. He’s a great locker room guy and very well liked. Think what you will about Baez as a player and his free swinging style, but if he’s not getting the money he wants in FA, it’s not because of some hand signal celebration he and Lindor came up with cause they were annoyed with booing
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Just another example of baseball taking themself entirely too seriously. Buster Olney clutching his pearls online over it, saying Baez is damaging his FA options, gimme a break. He’s a great locker room guy and very well liked. Think what you will about Baez as a player and his free swinging style, but if he’s not getting the money he wants in FA, it’s not because of some hand signal celebration he and Lindor came up with cause they were annoyed with booing
Yeah the Mets’ President issuing a press release was really dumb.
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Just another example of baseball taking themself entirely too seriously. Buster Olney clutching his pearls online over it, saying Baez is damaging his FA options, gimme a break. He’s a great locker room guy and very well liked. Think what you will about Baez as a player and his free swinging style, but if he’s not getting the money he wants in FA, it’s not because of some hand signal celebration he and Lindor came up with cause they were annoyed with booing
Agree about the pearl-clutching. And like you, I doubt this will cost Baez anything in FA ... but who cares if it does? It's his wallet.
But it was dopey and counterproductive by Baez and Lindor. You're not gonna "beat" the fans. You've sucked. Act like adults and take your medicine.
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Agree about the pearl-clutching. And like you, I doubt this will cost Baez anything in FA ... but who cares if it does? It's his wallet.
But it was dopey and counterproductive by Baez and Lindor. You're not gonna "beat" the fans. You've sucked. Act like adults and take your medicine.
Honestly, more players should boo fans. Too many fans are morons
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Honestly, more players should boo fans. Too many fans are morons
*Derick Wilson turns to student section and moons them*
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Cohen spent $2.4 Billion to buy the Mets. He, nor any other owner, is going to allow a punk or two to abuse the people who are paying the freight (the fans).
Baez is not being booed because people don't like him. He is being booed because of his play on the field. Teams will pay for the Corey Seagers and Carlos Correas of the world. They will pay an awful lot less for Javy Baez. The numbers dictate that.
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*Derick Wilson turns to student section and moons them*
He'd probably miss.
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He'd probably miss.
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/I4wGMXoi2kMDe/200.gif)
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Javy jeered pretty good every time his name was announced in the game today.
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*Derick Wilson turns to student section and moons them*
Hope Joe Buck isn’t around.
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Cohen spent $2.4 Billion to buy the Mets. He, nor any other owner, is going to allow a punk or two to abuse the people who are paying the freight (the fans).
Baez is not being booed because people don't like him. He is being booed because of his play on the field. Teams will pay for the Corey Seagers and Carlos Correas of the world. They will pay an awful lot less for Javy Baez. The numbers dictate that.
So now a player who people have loved and celebrated for his personality and flair during his career is a “punk”. And making a completely benign, nowhere near vulgar or offensive, sign is “abusing” fans. We know you don’t like Baez and think he sucks but get a grip. I’d say Carlos Correa is far more of a “punk” given he and his buddies rampantly cheated for years.
And what are you talking about contract wise? Seager, Baez, and Correa are all 1 year arbitration contacts of $11-13MM each. The numbers haven’t dictated anything in terms of big deals, nor is Baez offered “much less”. It’s all just speculation that you are using as fact to support an opinion.
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So now a player who people have loved and celebrated for his personality and flair during his career is a “punk”. And making a completely benign, nowhere near vulgar or offensive, sign is “abusing” fans. We know you don’t like Baez and think he sucks but get a grip. I’d say Carlos Correa is far more of a “punk” given he and his buddies rampantly cheated for years.
And what are you talking about contract wise? Seager, Baez, and Correa are all 1 year arbitration contacts of $11-13MM each. The numbers haven’t dictated anything in terms of big deals, nor is Baez offered “much less”. It’s all just speculation that you are using as fact to support an opinion.
I love Baez's attitude on the field. Players should be happy. They should celebrate when they do something good that contributes to their team winning. I am not talking bat flips when the team is down 11-0 and am not saying Baez does this. But when you disrespect fans who are upset because you suck, when you strike out 35% of the time, that is being a punk.
Contracts? We'll see. But Javy won't get close to what Seager gets and probably not near what Correa gets.
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Glad we agree that “the numbers dictate” nothing yet and it’s largely baseless speculation. 8-)
And I’m not in the camp of excusing any fan behavior and they should be deified. Cause they don’t pay the salaries anymore, TV does. That same fan booing him that’s being “abused” would fall all over himself to get an autograph from him if he saw him in an airport and would name his kid after him if he hit .333 the rest of the way and led the Mets to even an NLCS with Lindor
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Glad we agree that “the numbers dictate” nothing yet and it’s largely baseless speculation. 8-)
And I’m not in the camp of excusing any fan behavior and they should be deified. Cause they don’t pay the salaries anymore, TV does. That same fan booing him that’s being “abused” would fall all over himself to get an autograph from him if he saw him in an airport and would name his kid after him if he hit .333 the rest of the way and led the Mets to even an NLCS with Lindor
I pretty much agree, although you are picking nits when you say TV pays the bills. They do so, of course, only because of the number of fans watching.
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Boxberger, (7th inning), Williams (8th), and Hader (9th) gave up a total of 1 run in August.
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I'm watching a bit of SF/Milwaukee. The Brewers are no joke. Lots of good lefty hitters. Not sure what's up with the Giants' unis tonight.
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I'm watching a bit of SF/Milwaukee. The Brewers are no joke. Lots of good lefty hitters. Not sure what's up with the Giants' unis tonight.
Guessing that they are throwbacks.
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John Smoltz: Hates modern baseball and modern science!
https://nypost.com/2021/08/31/al-leiter-john-smoltz-wont-appear-in-studio-at-mlb-network-after-refusing-vaccine/amp/?__twitter_impression=true (https://nypost.com/2021/08/31/al-leiter-john-smoltz-wont-appear-in-studio-at-mlb-network-after-refusing-vaccine/amp/?__twitter_impression=true)
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Smoltz was a great pitcher. He is an outstanding color guy - maybe the best.
But he is still the same d-bag as always. No surprise he and Chipper played together for so long.
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And the network made a ‘compromise’ allowing them to work remotely.
Entitlement and the privilege of the powerful rule again. Either have a policy or don’t.
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And the network made a ‘compromise’ allowing them to work remotely.
Entitlement and the privilege of the powerful rule again. Either have a policy or don’t.
Work remotely when they are studio analysts. Still allow Smoltz to work onsite when he is a game analyst.
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I'm watching a bit of SF/Milwaukee. The Brewers are no joke. Lots of good lefty hitters. Not sure what's up with the Giants' unis tonight.
The Giants' unis are part of the City Connect series, a collaboration between Major League Baseball and Nike intended to shake up uniform design across the sport.
So far they have unveiled seven City Connect uniforms -- Arizona Diamondbacks, Boston Red Sox, Chicago Cubs, Chicago White Sox, Los Angeles Dodgers, Miami Marlins and San Francisco Giants. By the end of the 2023 season every team is expected to have its own iteration.
https://news.nike.com/news/nike-mlb-city-connect-series-2021-22 (https://news.nike.com/news/nike-mlb-city-connect-series-2021-22)
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Safe to say that Javy Baez is the best booer in baseball?
I think he just couldn't find a more tactful way to express his desire for all Mets fans to eat sh*t and die - https://www.theonion.com/javy-baez-wishes-he-d-found-more-tactful-way-to-express-1847592686 (https://www.theonion.com/javy-baez-wishes-he-d-found-more-tactful-way-to-express-1847592686)
Have enjoyed reading this Reddit thread about most memorable ridiculous Mets story other than the Baez thumbs down - https://old.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/pelizk/whats_your_favorite_ridiculous_mets_story_in/ (https://old.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/pelizk/whats_your_favorite_ridiculous_mets_story_in/)
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Ah the onion is fantastic.
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Nice thing is that Baez has played a role in helping two different teams get nowhere near the playoffs this season.
Yeah, I know, Javy ... double thumbs-down to me for saying such a thing!
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Nice thing is that Baez has played a role in helping two different teams get nowhere near the playoffs this season.
Yeah, I know, Javy ... double thumbs-down to me for saying such a thing!
When you combine the things he is very good at with the things he isn't (getting the bat to hit the ball), he is a very average player.
Other than his very good 2018, he is a below average hitter for his career. Seager and Correa have a career OPS+ (my fave quick stat) near 130 each. Baez is at 102.
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The Brewers are legit WS contenders.
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The Brewers are legit WS contenders.
No doubt Ziggy. But what happened to Yelich? Who is their most consistent hitter?
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The Brewers are legit WS contenders.
True, but they're boring af, and I feel like there is very little hype behind this team.
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No doubt Ziggy. But what happened to Yelich? Who is their most consistent hitter?
Injuries. It took awhile for Yelich to find his groove but he's been very good lately, slashing .345/.385/.534 in his last 15 game.
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No doubt Ziggy. But what happened to Yelich? Who is their most consistent hitter?
Avi Garcia
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True, but they're boring af, and I feel like there is very little hype behind this team.
I disagree on the first point, and am totally okay with the second one. Let 'em fly below the radar.
All the comeback wins have been a lot of fun. Adames has been a blast to watch since he got here. They're not as exuberant as the '11 and '18 teams but still really enjoying watching them.
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I've always been a fan of nasty pitching, so I think this Brewers team is very exciting. The Tri-Young Award winners at the top of the rotation, plus Houser being really solid, the back end of the bullpen being as good as there is in the MLB, and then I'm hoping for Ashby playing the Hader roll from 2018. Bring him in in the 3rd in a jam, or in the 9th to close a game out. Whenever you need some Ks.
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Winning, or even simply getting, to a WS while being boring and flying under the radar is fine by me.
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Do the Brewers play the game the right way?
Do they know the unwritten rules?
Do they spit on umpires?
These are the important questions
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I've always been a fan of nasty pitching, so I think this Brewers team is very exciting. The Tri-Young Award winners at the top of the rotation, plus Houser being really solid, the back end of the bullpen being as good as there is in the MLB, and then I'm hoping for Ashby playing the Hader roll from 2018. Bring him in in the 3rd in a jam, or in the 9th to close a game out. Whenever you need some Ks.
Not giving away any big secrets here ... Counsell's job for the final month is to make sure all pitchers are physically and mentally ready to perform their roles at peak efficiency once the postseason starts. Beyond that, keep the everyday ballplayers rested but sharp.
He is in an enviable position, because every other contender is fighting either for a division title or a wild-card spot. From afar, he seems to be a very bright manager, so here's hoping all of this can fall into place for him and the Brewers.
It would be amazing if Milwaukee could be home to both the NBA and MLB champions!
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Injuries. It took awhile for Yelich to find his groove but he's been very good lately, slashing .345/.385/.534 in his last 15 game.
And in the middle of an 11-game hitting streak, no less. *knocks on wood*
He just needs some of that power to come back to get those extra base hits and home runs, but it's hard to complain if he's getting on base consistently.
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Is Escobar coming back? I think they could beat anyone but obviously the Dodgers have the most talent. It might be best for Milwaukee if the Dodgers play in the WC game.
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Is Escobar coming back? I think they could beat anyone but obviously the Dodgers have the most talent. It might be best for Milwaukee if the Dodgers play in the WC game.
Escobar is expected to be back tomorrow, first day he is available. My impression is that if the Brewers were fighting for a playoff spot, they wouldn't have put him on the IL. Having the lead they do allows them to be conservative with injuries.
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It would be amazing if Milwaukee could be home to both the NBA and MLB champions!
Don’t sell us short. The Packers are Milwaukee’s team, too.
I ready for a 3-fer.
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I've always been a fan of nasty pitching, so I think this Brewers team is very exciting. The Tri-Young Award winners at the top of the rotation, plus Houser being really solid, the back end of the bullpen being as good as there is in the MLB, and then I'm hoping for Ashby playing the Hader roll from 2018. Bring him in in the 3rd in a jam, or in the 9th to close a game out. Whenever you need some Ks.
Don't forget Strickland and Cousins in the middle. ERAs are 1.30 and 0.75.
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Don’t sell us short. The Packers are Milwaukee’s team, too.
I ready for a 3-fer.
Those hoo ar hip and trendy refer ta 3 ways, hey?
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Don't forget Strickland and Cousins in the middle. ERAs are 1.30 and 0.75.
Very true. Cousins's stuff is nasty.
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True, but they're boring af, and I feel like there is very little hype behind this team.
You must not have watched a game since May, if you think they are boring.
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I guess if "has really good pitching but does not have mashers at the plate" is boring, then I suppose you're right. Oh well, I'm enjoying it.
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True, but they're boring af, and I feel like there is very little hype behind this team.
3 pitchers with reasonable grounds to be in the NL CY Young conversation (including the one who is either first or second in that race) and the two players that won reliever of the year. If you don't like pitching and defense, I guess they're boring?
Having Willy Adames on the team automatically boosts them out of boring territory in my book - he's an absolute joy.
No doubt Ziggy. But what happened to Yelich? Who is their most consistent hitter?
In the month of August, Yelich has been on a tear. Not hitting it out yet, and certainly not to 2018/19 Yelich levels, but the fact that his batting average is now at .260 up from the .230s speaks to what he's been doing. I don't dread Yelich at bats anymore - he looks confident.
And since the all-star break/trade deadline, Adames, Urias, Narvaez, Wong and Escobar have all been very consistent.
I don't recognize this offense compared to the first 2 months, when they could not scratch anything across.
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You must not have watched a game since May, if you think they are boring.
I have. Theyre not Braun, Prince, etc... fans get excited for big ball. Small ball wins, though.
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3 pitchers with reasonable grounds to be in the NL CY Young conversation (including the one who is either first or second in that race) and the two players that won reliever of the year. If you don't like pitching and defense, I guess they're boring?
Maybe 4. Hader makes the back end of the bullpen possible. Yes, I know he won't get it, but I fully expect the Brewers to have 4 top 10 guys (2 of the top 5) in the CY race, barring anything unexpected.
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Brewers go from tied 1-1 in the top of the 9th...to down 5-1 in the bottom of the 8th in the blink of an eye. Close replay on a stolen base attempt overturns the call and the Giants promptly score 4 runs. Game of inches.
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Taking 3 of 4 in San Fran still a huge accomplishment.
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Taking 3 of 4 in San Fran still a huge accomplishment.
Plus wouldn’t hate having the Dodgers be in the Wild Card spot instead of the Giants. And would prefer the NL East winner to the 1 seed. So this one doesn’t hurt too bad.
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23/30 MLB teams have reached the 85% vaccination target for Tier I individuals. Still less than 85% are: PHI, NYM, BOS, CHC, ARZ, KC, and SEA.
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I've watched a little MLB recently but generally don't watch until the playoffs. What exactly is the deal with "the shift"? Are they going to allow it moving forward or not? It seems to me if you're a good hitter it should be to your advantage. Why wouldn't say a Yelich just take a bunt single every time if no one is on base? Think about what Tony Gwynn would have done vs "the shift". He would absolutely destroy that strategy. Whatever happened to versatility with the bat?
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I've watched a little MLB recently but generally don't watch until the playoffs. What exactly is the deal with "the shift"? Are they going to allow it moving forward or not? It seems to me if you're a good hitter it should be to your advantage. Why wouldn't say a Yelich just take a bunt single every time if no one is on base? Think about what Tony Gwynn would have done vs "the shift". He would absolutely destroy that strategy. Whatever happened to versatility with the bat?
It's nothing new - just used more often now that their is easy access to where guys hit the ball.
But it has been used since at least the late 40's when Low Boudreau used it against Ted Williams.
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It's nothing new - just used more often now that their is easy access to where guys hit the ball.
But it has been used since at least the late 40's when Low Boudreau used it against Ted Williams.
Fair enough. It seems like people make a big deal out of it for some reason. Thx Jockey.
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They would not have tried the shift on Tony Gwynn. Have you seen any of the 4 outfielder shifts? Put as many fielders as possible (Prince, Cecil) where the batter is likely to hit.
It is going to continue until batters learn to use the whole field. Or until they figure out how to legislate it out.
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They would not have tried the shift on Tony Gwynn. Have you seen any of the 4 outfielder shifts? Put as many fielders as possible (Prince, Cecil) where the batter is likely to hit.
Nor Ichiro, nor Cabrera, etc… there are more guys they don’t shift for than they do. If you can slap an outside pitch to the opposite field, or swing inside out on a pitch inside, they won’t shift.
I don’t think the legislate it out cause you can easily beat it if you really wanted to as a player or manager.
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They would not have tried the shift on Tony Gwynn. Have you seen any of the 4 outfielder shifts? Put as many fielders as possible (Prince, Cecil) where the batter is likely to hit.
It is going to continue until batters learn to use the whole field. Or until they figure out how to legislate it out.
Gwynn was phenomenal. What an amazing athlete. It's as if he could direct the ball like a tennis player. Have you seen his strike out totals Tower? The guy was ridiculous. Tremendous eye-hand coordination .
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Gwynn was phenomenal. What an amazing athlete. It's as if he could direct the ball like a tennis player. Have you seen his strike out totals Tower? The guy was ridiculous. Tremendous eye-hand coordination .
The average fastball was about 4 - 5 MPH less when Gwynn played. Almost no one could throw 98, so hitters had more time to react. Spin rates were also something that was not pushed back then, so there is a lot more movement on the ball now.
That being said, if he played now, Gwynn would still be at the top of the list for fewest strikeouts. The total would be higher, but probably not by too much.
Wags brought up Ichiro. He is the most skilled batter I have ever seen and I go back to the great HoF'ers from the 60s and 70s. He was one of 2 hitters where I said this is a no-doubt HoF'er the first time I saw him hit. The other was 19 year old Adrian Beltre after I saw him hit in BP.
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The average fastball was about 4 - 5 MPH less when Gwynn played. Almost no one could throw 98, so hitters had more time to react. Spin rates were also something that was not pushed back then, so there is a lot more movement on the ball now.
That being said, if he played now, Gwynn would still be at the top of the list for fewest strikeouts. The total would be higher, but probably not by too much.
Wags brought up Ichiro. He is the most skilled batter I have ever seen and I go back to the great HoF'ers from the 60s and 70s. He was one of 2 hitters where I said this is a no-doubt HoF'er the first time I saw him hit. The other was 19 year old Adrian Beltre after I saw him hit in BP.
Ichiro was amazing as well but unlike Gwynn got a lot of infield hits because of his prime- time speed. Both of them would do just fine in this era. They would not be bothered by the new age pitchers because they would practice against them and be familiar with their speed and spin rates.
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Ichiro was amazing as well but unlike Gwynn got a lot of infield hits because of his prime- time speed. Both of them would do just fine in this era. They would not be bothered by the new age pitchers because they would practice against them and be familiar with their speed and spin rates.
Yeah. I don’t think that’s terribly accurate. They’d be fine yeah, but how do you “practice against them?”
My guess is that they would be encouraged to hit with more power, which would drive down their BA but perhaps lift their Slugging.
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Yeah. I don’t think that’s terribly accurate. They’d be fine yeah, but how do you “practice against them?”
My guess is that they would be encouraged to hit with more power, which would drive down their BA but perhaps lift their Slugging.
Gwynn hit .400 against 7 Cy Young winners. The guy would do just fine today FBM. By growing up in this era they would see far more speed and movement from little league to the major leagues.
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Gwynn hit .400 against 7 Cy Young winners. The guy would do just fine today FBM. By growing up in this era they would see far more speed and movement from little league to the major leagues.
That’s what I said. They would do just fine.
But as I said my guess is that they would be hitting with more power than they did during their day. Slappy singles hitters just aren’t valued as much.
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That’s what I said. They would do just fine.
But as I said my guess is that they would be hitting with more power than they did during their day. Slappy singles hitters just aren’t valued as much.
Fair enough. They would thwack the ball all over the field and put up HOF numbers.
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That’s what I said. They would do just fine.
But as I said my guess is that they would be hitting with more power than they did during their day. Slappy singles hitters just aren’t valued as much.
It would be fascinating to watch Ichiro in this era. It’s always been said, by multiple teammates and baseball people, that he had plenty of power. Not Bonds or Sosa steroid power, but could have hit 30 a season easily. He just loved hitting for average and piling up those hit numbers
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It would be fascinating to watch Ichiro in this era. It’s always been said, by multiple teammates and baseball people, that he had plenty of power. Not Bonds or Sosa steroid power, but could have hit 30 a season easily. He just loved hitting for average and piling up those hit numbers
Not sure why golf digest was the best source that I could find, but the animated Ichiro spray chart is a thing of beauty.
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/this-time-lapse-spray-chart-of-all-3089-hits-in-ichiro-suzukis-career-is-mesmerizing (https://www.golfdigest.com/story/this-time-lapse-spray-chart-of-all-3089-hits-in-ichiro-suzukis-career-is-mesmerizing)
(If someone can post the animation directly, thank you.)
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Houser threw the brewer’s first complete game shutout in 1,011 games tonight.
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Houser threw the brewer’s first complete game shutout in 1,011 games tonight.
First Brewers complete game in over 4 years. First complete game shutout in 7 years. Couldn’t have come at a more opportune time after last night.
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I'm going to be very interested to see how the Crew lines up its pitching for the post season. Clearly Burnes and Woody are the top 2. After that I'm not 100% sure what Counsell will do. Do you push Freddy back, for example, and give the start #3 to Houser? I'm assuming 6th through 9th innings belong, as necessary, to Strick, Box, Williams, Hader (wow). Roles for quality arms like Lauer/Suter/Cousins? Never once will they have to send a guy to the mound who hasn't had lasting success this year.
My only concern right now is getting Willy and Avi back as close to 100% as possible while maintaining their edge at the plate. Plenty of off days and treatments. I trust Counsell to manage that appropriately. October could be really special.
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I'm going to be very interested to see how the Crew lines up its pitching for the post season. Clearly Burnes and Woody are the top 2. After that I'm not 100% sure what Counsell will do. Do you push Freddy back, for example, and give the start #3 to Houser? I'm assuming 6th through 9th innings belong, as necessary, to Strick, Box, Williams, Hader (wow). Roles for quality arms like Lauer/Suter/Cousins? Never once will they have to send a guy to the mound who hasn't had lasting success this year.
My only concern right now is getting Willy and Avi back as close to 100% as possible while maintaining their edge at the plate. Plenty of off days and treatments. I trust Counsell to manage that appropriately. October could be really special.
Woody, Burnes, and bullpen games. Even when Peralta is starting, Counsell lets him go about 5 innings I think. Between off days and lots of strong bullpen options before Hader in the 9th, think that’s how Counsell works things.
Hopefully a special October!
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Last night Dietrich Enns became the 13th Ray this season to record a save, (a new record).
The Rays have a $74M payroll, last year’s pennant, and the best record in baseball.
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I'm going to be very interested to see how the Crew lines up its pitching for the post season. Clearly Burnes and Woody are the top 2. After that I'm not 100% sure what Counsell will do. Do you push Freddy back, for example, and give the start #3 to Houser? I'm assuming 6th through 9th innings belong, as necessary, to Strick, Box, Williams, Hader (wow). Roles for quality arms like Lauer/Suter/Cousins? Never once will they have to send a guy to the mound who hasn't had lasting success this year.
My only concern right now is getting Willy and Avi back as close to 100% as possible while maintaining their edge at the plate. Plenty of off days and treatments. I trust Counsell to manage that appropriately. October could be really special.
Peralta is clearly #3 if he is healthy. A no-brainer.
I agree that Counsell will go into playoff prep mode starting as early as this week. Lots of rest, fewer innings for the top starters. More off days for the starting 8.
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They just shut Willy down for 10 days. Good move.
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They just shut Willy down for 10 days. Good move.
It’s nice to have that flexibility
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The MLB Replay process is horrendous.
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Wow!
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This team is incredibly fun.
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This team is nuts (but boring af)
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This team is incredibly fun.
Somehow, Hard's is bored by this team.
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I left after the 7th. And ran into my sister on the walk back to our cars. 2 of my brothers left after the eighth.
Oops.
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In my best Bob Uecker voice, 'There's a drive, deep to right, get up, get up, get outta here, GONE!'
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Time to go into full cruise control. Get pitchers and everyday guys some rest. Let LA and SF wear themselves out trying to avoid the Wild Card game.
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In my best Bob Uecker voice, 'There's a drive, deep to right, get up, get up, get outta here, GONE!'
I've heard Bob do a couple "'There's a drive, deep to right, get up, and the rightfielder comes in a couple of steps for the catch" this year. Gotta still love the guy though - even at 86. He still always polls high in the national polls for best color guy.
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I've heard Bob do a couple "'There's a drive, deep to right, get up, and the rightfielder comes in a couple of steps for the catch" this year. Gotta still love the guy though - even at 86. He still always polls high in the national polls for best color guy.
There's a bit of slippage in real time play by play but every Brewer fan will cry when he's not behind the mike someday, hopefully a long time from now.
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shoothoops, degies.......
We got room on the bandwagon brothers! ;D
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I've heard Bob do a couple "'There's a drive, deep to right, get up, and the rightfielder comes in a couple of steps for the catch" this year. Gotta still love the guy though - even at 86. He still always polls high in the national polls for best color guy.
He's also calling some games via video, which can't be easy for an 86 year old to adjust to.
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There's a bit of slippage in real time play by play but every Brewer fan will cry when he's not behind the mike someday, hopefully a long time from now.
'
Absolutely. He will be missed. I wouldn't be surprised if he retires if they win it all, but you never know. It has been a big part of his life (and ours) for a lot of years.
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'
Absolutely. He will be missed. I wouldn't be surprised if he retires if they win it all, but you never know. It has been a big part of his life (and ours) for a lot of years.
Bob's said not retiring until he can't contribute meaningfully the broadcast. We're a long way from that. But I will tell you that I cherish every season we get. Spring magically begins every year with the words "Hello everybody!" May we get many Springs to come.
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Dodgers uniforms tonight are terrible.
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The one and only....
https://twitter.com/KyleMalzhan/status/1434648501506519052?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
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Softball uniforms.
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The one and only....
https://twitter.com/KyleMalzhan/status/1434648501506519052?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Epic. Many of you here might not remember the Dale Sveum Easter walk off call in 1987. Bob's call today was right there.
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Can’t believe the Brewers overcame the masterful game calling by Yadier Molina
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Can’t believe the Brewers overcame the masterful game calling by Yadier Molina
Peak adversity for the Crew.
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Can’t believe the Brewers overcame the masterful game calling by Yadier Molina
On the extended version of the clip that chronicles the entire footage of the at bat and all the post game field celebration, there's a shot of Molina just staring at the back wall of his dugout quietly steaming. Perfect.
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On the extended version of the clip that chronicles the entire footage of the at bat and all the post game field celebration, there's a shot of Molina just staring at the back wall of his dugout quietly steaming. Perfect.
That’s pure, immeasurable leadership
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“Momentum is only as good as tomorrow's starting pitcher.” - Earl Weaver
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I sense they closed Wolski's last night. 8-) Go Cubs!
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Since the HORRIFIC abuse of the Mets fans by Baez and Lindor, the Mets have went 7-2 and Baez has hit .350 with 2 HRs, few doubles, and only 1 error in the field. And Stevie Cohen coming out to publicly defend him this week. Maybe that’s what the Mets needed to fire them up.
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Since the HORRIFIC abuse of the Mets fans by Baez and Lindor, the Mets have went 7-2 and Baez has hit .350 with 2 HRs, few doubles, and only 1 error in the field. And Stevie Cohen coming out to publicly defend him this week. Maybe that’s what the Mets needed to fire them up.
Who called it HORRIFIC?
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Who called it HORRIFIC?
Anyone who called it “abuse” or was deeply bothered and offended by it. Just a bit of hyperbole, something you’re well familiar with 8-)
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Lauer has been lights out for many weeks now. 2.01 ERA over his last 11 outings. Over 14 innings in his last 2 starts, he's given up one run.
Demanding the ball in October. Not bad for your #6 swing man, eh? #Crew
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Lauer has been lights out for many weeks now. 2.01 ERA over his last 11 outings. Over 14 innings in his last 2 starts, he's given up one run.
Demanding the ball in October. Not bad for your #6 swing man, eh? #Crew
Guess that trade wasn’t so bad afterall.
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Guess that trade wasn’t so bad afterall.
Came here to post this. I think the Brewers may have won the trade
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Anyone who called it “abuse” or was deeply bothered and offended by it. Just a bit of hyperbole, something you’re well familiar with 8-)
Sarcasm and hyperbole - my bread and butter. ;D
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Came here to post this. I think the Brewers may have won the trade
Remind me of the details. To lazy to look up.
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Lauer/Urias for Davies/Grisham
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Lauer/Urias for Davies/Grisham
With I think Lauer being a fraction of the cost as Davies. I believe Davies was at $8M and Lauer is under $1M.
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If one goes by WAR:
Urias 2.3
Lauer 1.9
Grisham 3.1
Since Davies was part of the package for Darvish, I don’t know how to completely correlate him into this.
Darvish 1.3
Seems fairly even, both teams seemed to do well here.
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Lauer/Urias for Davies/Grisham
Yeah, I like that a great deal more at the end of the '21 season. Both young guys we got appear to be multi-year foundational players. Control for teams like Milwaukee is very important.
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Yeah, I like that a great deal more at the end of the '21 season. Both young guys we got appear to be multi-year foundational players. Control for teams like Milwaukee is very important.
Urias has his warts, to be sure, but shows enough on both defense and offense in between the defensive lapses. See last night.
The real win is that he might no longe be the primary piece of that trade is a competent starter like Lauer having 3 more years of control beyond this one.
That will be huge as inevitably the Brewers will trade some or all of their starters if their contention window closes
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Remember when the Astros gave the Brewers Josh Hader, Adrian Houser, Domingo Santana, and Brett Phillips for Carlos Gomez and Mike Fiers?
I have nothing more. Just wanted to reminisce on that for a moment.
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Remember when the Astros gave the Brewers Josh Hader, Adrian Houser, Domingo Santana, and Brett Phillips for Carlos Gomez and Mike Fiers?
I have nothing more. Just wanted to reminisce on that for a moment.
Thank you Wilmer Flores.
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Thank you Wilmer Flores.
Yup.
Then again, we would've also had Zack Wheeler (who's up there in the Cy Young race) and Fiers to flip for other pieces still.
Also thank you to Jonathon Lucroy for being afraid of Jan Gomes. Got us Brinson and Ortiz, who turned into Yeli.
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Yup.
Then again, we would've also had Zack Wheeler (who's up there in the Cy Young race) and Fiers to flip for other pieces still.
Also thank you to Jonathon Lucroy for being afraid of Jan Gomes. Got us Brinson and Ortiz, who turned into Yeli.
That’s fair, but not sure the Brewers are paying Wheeler 5/118 like the Phillies did. Especially with missing two years.
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That’s fair, but not sure the Brewers are paying Wheeler 5/118 like the Phillies did. Especially with missing two years.
Good point.
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Chris Sales was supposed to pitch in Chicago against the White sox on Sunday, but he got The Covid. That sucks; would've been good television.
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Brewers about to be a club record 32 games over .500 and set a franchise record in road wins. Already set the club record of most games ahead in 1st place in division. Pretty awesome.
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Because of his uniqueness and his historic season as a two-way player, Otani pretty much has MVP locked up even though the Angels again suck and he has faced absolutely no pressure except for whatever pressure he puts on himself.
Guerrero Jr., meanwhile, has carried a Toronto team that was expected to suck but is challenging NY and Bos for a playoff spot. He leads the league in BA, OBP, OPS, OPS+, TB and R. He has 1 fewer HR than Otani and 7 more RBI. He has a shot at the triple crown.
And again, Vlad Jr's team is in the thick of the playoff race, 8.5 games ahead of an Angels team that hasn't been in contention all season.
I love watching Otani and appreciate the incredible season he's had as both a hitter and pitcher. But doesn't Vlad deserve more love? Doesn't "value" at least suggest helping one's team contend?
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Brewers about to be a club record 32 games over .500 and set a franchise record in road wins. Already set the club record of most games ahead in 1st place in division. Pretty awesome.
The next lofty goal is 100 wins. Entirely possible. But then the real work begins.
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Because of his uniqueness and his historic season as a two-way player, Otani pretty much has MVP locked up even though the Angels again suck and he has faced absolutely no pressure except for whatever pressure he puts on himself.
Guerrero Jr., meanwhile, has carried a Toronto team that was expected to suck but is challenging NY and Bos for a playoff spot. He leads the league in BA, OBP, OPS, OPS+, TB and R. He has 1 fewer HR than Otani and 7 more RBI. He has a shot at the triple crown.
And again, Vlad Jr's team is in the thick of the playoff race, 8.5 games ahead of an Angels team that hasn't been in contention all season.
I love watching Otani and appreciate the incredible season he's had as both a hitter and pitcher. But doesn't Vlad deserve more love? Doesn't "value" at least suggest helping one's team contend?
There should be a discussion surrounding the Angels complete failure at building around two generational talents, and then how they are on the same roster.
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The Lions of Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson, and Matthew Stafford have some suggestions.
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Yeah team success should have no bearing for MVP voting in an individualized sport like baseball.
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The Lions of Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson, and Matthew Stafford have some suggestions.
Yeah, but the Angels HAVE won before.
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Yeah, but the Angels HAVE won before.
Not since Moreno bought them. He's the root of the problem, just like the Ford family is the problem in Detroit.
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Yeah, but the Angels HAVE won before.
World Champs, 1957.
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Jack Morris returned to the broadcast booth last night.
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Yeah team success should have no bearing for MVP voting in an individualized sport like baseball.
Many agree, many disagree.
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The Lions of Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson, and Matthew Stafford have some suggestions.
Don't think I'd put Stafford, playing by far the most important position, in the generational talent category.
More like a high volume shooter.
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Why is Ted Simmons in the Hall of Fame? When he was first eligible, he got less than 5% of the vote and never appeared on another ballot. He was what....the fourth best catcher of the 1970s?
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If the new argument for enshrinement is “better than Harold Baines?” then we will start to see all kinds of Ted Simmons-type players in the Hall.
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The veterans committee use to be very protective of who got in the Hall if they failed the BBWAA vote so miserably.
The new committee ... it's like a come one, come all thing.
Whatever. If they want to water it down, to "Baines-i-fy" it, as WI_I_C might say, have at it.
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The veterans committee use to be very protective of who got in the Hall if they failed the BBWAA vote so miserably.
The new committee ... it's like a come one, come all thing.
Whatever. If they want to water it down, to "Baines-i-fy" it, as WI_I_C might say, have at it.
I thought they Santo-ed it down before Baines.
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Don't look now y'all, butt Corbin's got it all goin' on, hey?
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Hey, this f*cking sucks!
I think its the right call, but thats the closest I've been in my lifetime to a Brewers no hitter
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No surprise at all knowing Counsell
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No surprise at all knowing Counsell
He looked like he wanted to vomit the entire 8th inning
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Bigga phish ta fry. Great move by da Couns, hey?
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Cy just made his final decision.
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He looked like he wanted to vomit the entire 8th inning
Agreed, kind of funny to watch.
Not sure what to think. Awesome W, no hitter is sweet. Loses a little luster when Corbin can’t finish it himself though.
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History was set again when the Brewers combined for a no-hitter against the Indians on September 11.
For those keeping score at home, Cleveland has been no-hit 3 times this year and over 26% of all MLB teams threw a no-hitter this year.
So far.
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Had to pull him. Incredible outing. Time to go get a ring and nobody will even remember.
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The combined no hitter is lame.
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Agree with all of this.
It was cool. It's not the same. It's probably the right all. As a dumb fan I can wish he got a shot at finishing it.
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Don’t burn an arm for a no hitter. Bigger fish to fry.
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Can’t make this stuff up.
On 9/11, Castellanos hit a homer to left to make it a 4-0 ballgame.
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How does allowing a guy to try for a no-hitter jeopardize his post-season with 20 game left? I don't get it unless he asked to come out.
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How does allowing a guy to try for a no-hitter jeopardize his post-season with 20 game left? I don't get it unless he asked to come out.
Agree Muggsy. His pitch count was 115, that’s not at a crazy level to let him try and finish. A 10-12 pitch ninth and he’s still safely under 130, and they could afford to let him skip a start, go shorter next two starts, etc.
It’s still a very cool accomplishment to no hit any major league team, but a combined one just isn’t the same. Nieves still has the only solo one in 52 seasons of Brewers baseball. A little disappointing Counsell didn’t let him try and finish. I’d be very surprised if Burnes asked to come out.
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How many guys are even sniffing 130 pitches nowadays? I’m thinking not a lot are going above 110.
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How many guys are even sniffing 130 pitches nowadays? I’m thinking not a lot are going above 110.
No kidding. Nobody gets to even 115. The only way a manager nowadays lets his ace go back out there when they’re Playoff bound is if it’s for a perfecto.
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Counsell is arguably the best "arm manager" in the league, I'm going to trust his judgement.
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Couns made the obvious right call. This team is special and burning out your Cy Young with a dozen game lead is foolish. Corbin knows it's all about October. Plus, the little added pressure on Josh was healthy. Hope Rowdy is okay.
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Of this year’s no hitters, highest pitch count was 117. And that was the only pitch count higher than Burnes tonight.
Seems Counsell made the right call not letting him back out for the 9th.
What a season for the Crew. Hope there’s a lot more magic to come still.
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I guess it's just the era but I feel bad for the guy if he was fine in the 9th. I don't see how 125-30 pitches really risks anything. If there was a few games left in the season I would understand. I suppose this is the normal decision for today but disagree with the obsession over the pitch count as well as the "save for the postseason" narrative.
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If you take him out, some fans whine about a lost no-hitter opportunity. But then tomorrow comes and who cares?
If you leave him in and he gets hurt, you’ll never live it down as a manager.
It was an easy, obvious decision.
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If you take him out, some fans whine about a lost no-hitter opportunity. But then tomorrow comes and who cares?
If you leave him in and he gets hurt, you’ll never live it down as a manager.
It was an easy, obvious decision.
Why would he get hurt? That's why it's an easy decision? Because he'd get hurt throwing 10-15 more pitches?
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Why would he get hurt? That's why it's an easy decision? Because he'd get hurt throwing 10-15 more pitches?
Certainly a possibility. Once you get into the triple digits, the likelihood for injury increases significantly with each pitch. Sure, it's not a guarantee he gets hurt if he throws 10-15 more pitches, but it is at least a moderate risk. Given that the Crew have legitimate World Series hopes, probably the right call not to risk the injury. If they were out of contention, maybe Couns lets Burnes go for it.
There's only one player this season averaging over 100 pitches an outing (Zach Wheeler). Second is Gerrit Cole at 98.7. Only 11 pitchers are averaging 95 or more pitches a game and only 28 average 90 or more pitches a game (one of them being Burnes). I'm not certain what the highest pitch count in a game is this season, but the highest pitch count in a solo no hitter this season is 117. Wouldn't be surprised if that's the most any pitcher has thrown in a game this season. Also, this was Burnes' career high for pitches in a game. Plus, this is Burnes' first full season as a starter. The most he's ever pitched in a season before this one was 59.66 innings. He's pitched 152 this season.
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I guess it's just the era but I feel bad for the guy if he was fine in the 9th. I don't see how 125-30 pitches really risks anything. If there was a few games left in the season I would understand. I suppose this is the normal decision for today but disagree with the obsession over the pitch count as well as the "save for the postseason" narrative.
In 2012 Johan Santana was one of the best pitchers in baseball when the Mets let him throw 134 pitches in a no-hitter. He was never the same pitcher again. I suspect Counsel knows what he is doing.
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Burnes had to lobby like hell just to get the 8th. He wasn't getting the 9th.
Couns is by far and away the best manager in Crew history and certainly one of the best in the game today. This was an easy call and the questioning armchairs are just flat out wrong. Nobody on the Brewers is going to be unnecessarily stressed when they have a 13 game lead. Couns even admitted post game that in different circumstances (like if they sucked and weren't going anywhere) he might have thought a little differently.
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In 2012 Johan Santana was one of the best pitchers in baseball when the Mets let him throw 134 pitches in a no-hitter. He was never the same pitcher again. I suspect Counsel knows what he is doing.
Uhhh...Santana was 33 and missed the entire previous season due to shoulder surgery when he pitched his 2012 no hitter with 134 pitches. That outing maybe, likely finished his career, that was his last season and it didn’t end well, but his pitching days were already seriously numbered.
Burnes is 26, with no arm injury history in his life. So comparing him getting near or into the 130 range (which I’m no longer arguing is a good idea) and Santana is apples and oranges on steroids.
Kershaw had a 132 pitch outing in 2013 and has been spectacular and without arm problems until his forearm inflammation issue 8 years later (clearly nothing to do with an outing over 8 years ago).
This is not a one size fits all issue. Some guys just have very durable arms that can take very high usage. Others don’t. You just never know at the time. That’s why it was the right call to take him out after the 8th last night and not jeopardize the rest of this season or his career.
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Also, this was Burnes' career high for pitches in a game. Plus, this is Burnes' first full season as a starter. The most he's ever pitched in a season before this one was 59.66 innings. He's pitched 152 this season.
All very good points.
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Interesting points but let me ask two questions:
Why did he come out for the 8th inning?
Would he have come out for the 9th if he had 19 strikeouts or a perfect game in tact?
I'm not saying it's the wrong decision by the manager but more that I feel for Burnes and think he should have be given the opportunity.
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Why would he get hurt? That's why it's an easy decision? Because he'd get hurt throwing 10-15 more pitches?
You have a no-hitter going. You're trying to be perfect on every pitch. You're trying to throw your fastball harder than ever. You've already thrown by far a career high in pitches, meaning your arm already is in uncharted territory. There's significant physical stress.
So yes, he could get hurt throwing 10 or 15 more pitches.
And on top of that, he's an ace for a team that's hoping to win a championship.
It was an easy, obvious decision for Counsell. I'm glad he put the health of the pitcher, and the goals of the team, ahead of an individual accomplishment.
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Interesting points but let me ask two questions:
Why did he come out for the 8th inning?
Would he have come out for the 9th if he had 19 strikeouts or a perfect game in tact?
I'm not saying it's the wrong decision by the manager but more that I feel for Burnes and think he should have be given the opportunity.
Hoping for a 5 pitch 8th.
No. Yes.
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Interesting points but let me ask two questions:
Why did he come out for the 8th inning?
Would he have come out for the 9th if he had 19 strikeouts or a perfect game in tact?
I'm not saying it's the wrong decision by the manager but more that I feel for Burnes and think he should have be given the opportunity.
I think you care about this more than Burnes does.
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I think you care about this more than Burnes does.
I think everyone if they were in his position would care.
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Actually no. If Burnes trusts his coaches and the Brewers organization, he would understand completely why they did this.
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Actually no. If Burnes trusts his coaches and the Brewers organization, he would understand completely why they did this.
Yea, I think he was kind of chuckling that he had to really push for the 8th. He didn’t seem like a guy that was pissed at being pulled.
10 years ago, maybe. But I think there’s a decent chunk of managers that would have pulled him.
On a side note, how awesome has the development of Burnes been? I won’t lie, when he was giving up homers at a rate where I thought maybe I had a chance to put one out of the park on him, I had my doubts he’d get it back. He worked his butt off and is a legit Cy Young candidate, maybe even the leader.
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Interesting points but let me ask two questions:
Why did he come out for the 8th inning?
Would he have come out for the 9th if he had 19 strikeouts or a perfect game in tact?
I'm not saying it's the wrong decision by the manager but more that I feel for Burnes and think he should have be given the opportunity.
He came out for the 8th because he was right at the edge of Counsell's comfort zone and if he had gotten through it with 4-6 pitches Couns might have given him a shot. The manager even said so.
And do not diminish Counsell's desire to put Hader in a 'max stress' situation. This was healthy for the whole team in mid September. Nobody thinks twice about this if rings get handed out.
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It was both the right decision to take him out and lame (because it’s cool to see a guy get rewarded for busting his a$$ and make history for himself).
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Excuse my ignorance but will the Brewers play Atlanta and then SF/LA play the winner of the two wild cards?
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It was both the right decision to take him out and lame (because it’s cool to see a guy get rewarded for busting his a$$ and make history for himself).
So you would have been right and lame like Counsell, or wrong and bold? Because you have to choose one side if that’s how you’re going to break this decision down to.
It was the right call based on the totality of the situation for Burnes and the team. It wasn’t lame.
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Excuse my ignorance but will the Brewers play Atlanta and then SF/LA play the winner of the two wild cards?
Yes, presuming Brewers don’t catch the West division champ.
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Yes, presuming Brewers don’t catch the West division champ.
They would be in a better position if they don't catch them.
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They would be in a better position if they don't catch them.
Absolutely
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The Brewers have a possibly interesting scenario with their final series against LA. Most likely the Brewers would have the 2 seed locked up, but the West could be undecided. I would think you’d try to get the Dodgers into the Wild Card game, but do you at the expense of resting guys?
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The Brewers have a possibly interesting scenario with their final series against LA. Most likely the Brewers would have the 2 seed locked up, but the West could be undecided. I would think you’d try to get the Dodgers into the Wild Card game, but do you at the expense of resting guys?
I don’t know if that will matter. Every day guys are going to get their rest the next couple weeks, but I imagine they will all play the last few games to be ready for the playoffs (don’t forget there will be several days off before the 1st playoff game).
As for the pitchers, they will be set for Byrnes, Woody, and Peralta in the 1st three games. So they may throw them against LA, but have them on a strict pitch count.
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So you would have been right and lame like Counsell, or wrong and bold? Because you have to choose one side if that’s how you’re going to break this decision down to.
It was the right call based on the totality of the situation for Burnes and the team. It wasn’t lame.
The amount of angst some of you guys have over this is really weird.
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The Brewers have a possibly interesting scenario with their final series against LA. Most likely the Brewers would have the 2 seed locked up, but the West could be undecided. I would think you’d try to get the Dodgers into the Wild Card game, but do you at the expense of resting guys?
No 40 man rosters this year, only 27. So won't have as many scrubs to rotate in. Will make a difference once they clinch.
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This Indians’ team really seems to care.
About what, I have no idea.
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15 straight hitless innings
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I'm not going to bring up what I'm not talking or even thinking about after 5 complete in Cleveland. Don't know anything; haven't heard; not saying. 8-)
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Lauer and Houser have been the 2nd and 3rd best starters for the Brewers over the last 6 weeks or so.
Amazing.
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I'm not going to bring up what I'm not talking or even thinking about after 5 complete in Cleveland. Don't know anything; haven't heard; not saying. 8-)
Nice goin', Glow.
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Teoscar and Lourdes are really great hitters - yet probably only the 4th and 5th best on their team.
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Nice goin', Glow.
See Creighton? Not me man!
Now let me add something here. In a blowout game with almost nothing really on the line, Counsell magically finds a way to stress his critical 7th inning guy. 'Get me two outs, Box.' Now he's going to give his young phenom an inning or two to continue to give him September touches. Never stops trying to improve his club.
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See Creighton? Not me man!
Now let me add something here. In a blowout game with almost nothing really on the line, Counsell magically finds a way to stress his critical 7th inning guy. 'Get me two outs, Box.' Now he's going to give his young phenom an inning or two to continue to give him September touches. Never stops trying to improve his club.
You have to be Craig Counsel’s Dad. Just admit it.
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You have to be Craig Counsel’s Dad. Just admit it.
I'm not THAT old!
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Eric Lauer has a 1.84 ERA over his last 12 outings.
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I'm not THAT old!
Better-looking older brother, then.
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Curt Henning is driving quickly towards Dodger Stadium.
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I know a lot of people don't like A-Rod as an announcer. I don't love him or hate him. But I will give him credit ... he just said 3x that the Mets should walk Stanton ... they didn't ... and he hit the tying HR, a total bomb.
Oh, and Stanton only had a chance to bat in the 7th inning because Baez botched a sure double-play ball.
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I know a lot of people don't like A-Rod as an announcer. I don't love him or hate him. But I will give him credit ... he just said 3x that the Mets should walk Stanton ... they didn't ... and he hit the tying HR, a total bomb.
Oh, and Stanton only had a chance to bat in the 7th inning because Baez botched a sure double-play ball.
A Rod, love him or hate him, as an actual commentator is very good. He understands the game very well, his instincts are great, and he's usually pretty spot on.
Baez is 6/11 in his last 3, 10/19 in the last 5. He has only 2 errors in his last 25 games. It was a bad boot, uncharacteristic, but he's been on an absolute tear lately. I know you weren't saying that he's a bum, and were totally right that individual play was bad. But baseball is a game of trends and he's been fantastic since he caught heat from the media.
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No 40 man rosters this year, only 27. So won't have as many scrubs to rotate in. Will make a difference once they clinch.
Rosters are 26 until September when they expand to 28.
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A Rod, love him or hate him, as an actual commentator is very good. He understands the game very well, his instincts are great, and he's usually pretty spot on.
Baez is 6/11 in his last 3, 10/19 in the last 5. He has only 2 errors in his last 25 games. It was a bad boot, uncharacteristic, but he's been on an absolute tear lately. I know you weren't saying that he's a bum, and were totally right that individual play was bad. But baseball is a game of trends and he's been fantastic since he caught heat from the media.
Well, Baez brought the heat on himself. But yes, he's hit extremely well, and he and Lindor have helped put the Mets in contention again. We'll see if their slumps buried the team too deep for them to recover.
We agree about A-Rod.
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Given that the Crew have legitimate World Series hopes, probably the right call not to risk the injury. If they were out of contention, maybe Couns lets Burnes go for it.
He said just about as much postgame- "But we just had to put a bigger picture in our head a little bit about what’s going on here. … Maybe in a different season, something different happens there, but we have to understand what’s going to happen for the next six weeks here and keep that in mind.”
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Rosters are 26 until September when they expand to 28.
Thanks. My point still stands.
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No 40 man rosters this year, only 27. So won't have as many scrubs to rotate in. Will make a difference once they clinch.
Yep. Wonder if we see some ::cough cough:: injured list stints over the next couple of weeks. Especially for the pitchers.
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(https://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lr4goexwqx1qewhjpo1_400.gif)
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Yep. Wonder if we see some ::cough cough:: injured list stints over the next couple of weeks. Especially for the pitchers.
Hopefully not. Give position players one day off per series and limit starters to 80 pitches up until the last outing. They need to stay fresh.
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Thanks. My point still stands.
That’s a good point that I hadn’t thought of. That end of season series will probably feature mostly regulars.
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Hopefully not. Give position players one day off per series and limit starters to 80 pitches up until the last outing. They need to stay fresh.
This. Give guys rest, but don't give up momentum.
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Ryan Braun retired today.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Brewers/status/1437808373781696517?s=20
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Ryan Braun retired today.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Brewers/status/1437808373781696517?s=20
Third best Brewer of all time? (Accounting for just the work they did as a Brewer of course...)
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Ryan Braun retired today.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Brewers/status/1437808373781696517?s=20
Used to really like him, but his antics kinda "bum-i-fied" himself in my eyes.
Not the juicing so much as being so desperate to protect his lie that he willingly hurt others.
I haven't followed him closely enough since he became a mediocre ballplayer many years ago to know if he has atoned by apologizing to those he hurt and doing charitable acts. If so, I'm glad about that.
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He was really only a mediocre ballplayer when he had injury issues and last year. He didn't live up to his salary, but he was solid in 2018 and 2019 - I would give him a grade of B those years.
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He was really only a mediocre ballplayer when he had injury issues and last year. He didn't live up to his salary, but he was solid in 2018 and 2019 - I would give him a grade of B those years.
I would think over the life of the contract, he outperformed it. I think everyone kind of knew the last few years could be a little ugly.
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He was really only a mediocre ballplayer when he had injury issues and last year. He didn't live up to his salary, but he was solid in 2018 and 2019 - I would give him a grade of B those years.
Actually Fluff, it's been pretty well documented (I'm not going to look for it) that Braun actually ended up being a good signing over the entire life of his contract where he significantly over performed during the first handful of years. They've studied his WAR v. contract and written extensively about it.
As to his PED situation, folks would have quickly gotten over his juicing especially if the explanation had been 'getting healthy for the playoff run'. What folks (like me) won't forgive was that he threw an innocent man under the bus to cover his own backside. In my eyes, that means he never becomes the next 'retired ambassador' for the Crew a la Yount. That seat is reserved for Yeli some day.
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He was really only a mediocre ballplayer when he had injury issues and last year. He didn't live up to his salary, but he was solid in 2018 and 2019 - I would give him a grade of B those years.
OK. As I said I didn't follow him the last many years. Just looked at his stats showing he averaged 17 HR, 54 RBI, 2.67/.327/.488 from 2017-20 ... but if you say he was better than mediocre, I'm not gonna argue.
As to his PED situation, folks would have quickly gotten over his juicing especially if the explanation had been 'getting healthy for the playoff run'. What folks (like me) won't forgive was that he threw an innocent man under the bus to cover his own backside.
This. As Daffy Duck used to say, "That's despicable."
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Actually Fluff, it's been pretty well documented (I'm not going to look for it) that Braun actually ended up being a good signing over the entire life of his contract where he significantly over performed during the first handful of years. They've studied his WAR v. contract and written extensively about it.
As to his PED situation, folks would have quickly gotten over his juicing especially if the explanation had been 'getting healthy for the playoff run'. What folks (like me) won't forgive was that he threw an innocent man under the bus to cover his own backside. In my eyes, that means he never becomes the next 'retired ambassador' for the Crew a la Yount. That seat is reserved for Yeli some day.
Won't disagree with any of that.
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He was a real POS during and immediately following the PED stuff but he came around and IMO changed. I have friends in admin at the Brewers, in Milwaukee media and in Milwaukee charity scene. Braun was a completely different person from 2015 on. That scandal changed him for the better. He gained a perspective he never would have had before. What he did was despicable, how he grew afterwards was admirable.
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He was a real POS during and immediately following the PED stuff but he came around and IMO changed. I have friends in admin at the Brewers, in Milwaukee media and in Milwaukee charity scene. Braun was a completely different person from 2015 on. That scandal changed him for the better. He gained a perspective he never would have had before. What he did was despicable, how he grew afterwards was admirable.
Fair enough. And he can continue to build on that with continuing charity work in Milwaukee every year.
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OK. As I said I didn't follow him the last many years. Just looked at his stats showing he averaged 17 HR, 54 RBI, 2.67/.327/.488 from 2017-20 ... but if you say he was better than mediocre, I'm not gonna argue.
This. As Daffy Duck used to say, "That's despicable."
The counting numbers are a little skewed if you include the very abbreviated 2020 season
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Braun's other impact besides on field production was an MVP deciding to stay in Milwaukee and twice signing team friendly deals rather than go to market like Prince did. That changed the perception of the Brewers and probably helped sign Lorenzo Cain and helped Yelich sign earlier than he needed to. Braun, Yelich & Giannis are the Reggie White for Milwaukee. I think all three have reshaped how we view Brewers & Bucks prospects, not just in W's and L's but also how player view playing in this city.
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Fair enough. And he can continue to build on that with continuing charity work in Milwaukee every year.
Plus him and Yeli's work for the CA wildfire victims too.
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Why is Ted Simmons in the Hall of Fame? When he was first eligible, he got less than 5% of the vote and never appeared on another ballot. He was what....the fourth best catcher of the 1970s?
Well he was fourth best to 3 of the top 10 catchers ever in Bench, Fisk and Carter. He's better than a good chunk of catchers who are there. People who remember him from the end of his career with Milwaukee would probably wonder how he was a HOFer.
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He was a real POS during and immediately following the PED stuff but he came around and IMO changed. I have friends in admin at the Brewers, in Milwaukee media and in Milwaukee charity scene. Braun was a completely different person from 2015 on. That scandal changed him for the better. He gained a perspective he never would have had before. What he did was despicable, how he grew afterwards was admirable.
I am glad to hear this, Lens. Thanks for posting.
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OK. As I said I didn't follow him the last many years. Just looked at his stats showing he averaged 17 HR, 54 RBI, 2.67/.327/.488 from 2017-20 ... but if you say he was better than mediocre, I'm not gonna argue.
This. As Daffy Duck used to say, "That's despicable."
An .815 OPS is definitely better than medicore
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At the Brewers @ Tigers game. Plenty of Brewers fans made the trip and they all want to say hello to me when they see my Marquette t-shirt.
But the one guy behind me in line for a brat with his Marquette "MU Madness" t-shirt... wtf? He bought his ticket from someone and he was yelling at the concession stand worker for not giving him the $0.75 discount for season ticket holders with the stipulation "he probably bought from a season ticket holder ".
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Reely klassy how he threw da Kenosha schmuck under da bus, aina?
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Reely klassy how he threw da Kenosha schmuck under da bus, aina?
Hers he voteds four 45 aina?
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An .815 OPS is definitely better than medicore
OK. I said I wouldn't argue it. If you think he was fine, good, very good or, great, you're entitled to that opinion.
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OK. I said I wouldn't argue it. If you think he was fine, good, very good or, great, you're entitled to that opinion.
I didn’t give an opinion.
Simply stated what the stats(if accurate) you provided say.
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At the Brewers @ Tigers game. Plenty of Brewers fans made the trip and they all want to say hello to me when they see my Marquette t-shirt.
But the one guy behind me in line for a brat with his Marquette "MU Madness" t-shirt... wtf? He bought his ticket from someone and he was yelling at the concession stand worker for not giving him the $0.75 discount for season ticket holders with the stipulation "he probably bought from a season ticket holder ".
No population is perfectly devoid of asshats.
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Yeli is giving away 10,000 tickets in 5 minutes. See you there!
https://www.mlb.com/brewers/tickets/specials/yelich
#ThisIsMyCrew
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I didn’t give an opinion.
Simply stated what the stats(if accurate) you provided say.
OK.
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Yeli is giving away 10,000 tickets in 5 minutes. See you there!
https://www.mlb.com/brewers/tickets/specials/yelich
#ThisIsMyCrew
Thanks!
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No population is perfectly devoid of asshats.
I was just very disappointed he wasn't representing our university well.
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I remember watching a guy in an MU shirt berating his girlfriend in an airport. Not impressive.
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I remember watching a guy in an MU shirt berating his girlfriend in an airport. Not impressive.
Warrior or Golden Eagle logo?
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MU
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No population is perfectly devoid of asshats.
Fortunately for us none of them are on scoop
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Are we sure Ohtani is the MVP?
Like, I know his story is awesome, and it’s remarkable to be a two way player and be really good at both pitching and hitting, but man, he’s been borderline mediocre or if we really want to be honest, bad, since August 1st. The numbers are not kind. I don’t know how we just throw away a third of the season and dismiss it because he was crowned MVP in June.
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Are we sure Ohtani is the MVP?
Like, I know his story is awesome, and it’s remarkable to be a two way player and be really good at both pitching and hitting, but man, he’s been borderline mediocre or if we really want to be honest, bad, since August 1st. The numbers are not kind. I don’t know how we just throw away a third of the season and dismiss it because he was crowned MVP in June.
Totally agree. I actually happened to look up his batting stats and I was surprised how bad he's been since the ASB, and even worse (like you said) the last month and a half. And a pitcher, his ERA the last month is 7.04.
If the Angels were to have any chance at even pretending to contend, they needed their star to produce. But he hasn't. The opposite of "value."
Meanwhile, Vlad Jr. has carried the Blue Jays to the cusp of a postseason spot. He leads the AL in batting, OBP, slugging, HR and R, and he has 103 RBI (7 behind KC's Perez) as he chases the Triple Crown. All for a legit contender.
Going into September, the Blue Jays were closer in the standings to the 10th-place Angels (4 games) than they were to a wild-card spot (4.5 games). If the season ended today, the Blue Jays would be in the playoffs, and they are 10.5 games ahead of L.A.
Shohei in September: .158/.273/.316, 2 HR, 4 RBI, 3 R ... 1-1, 6.97 ERA, .885 OPS against. ... Opposite of "value."
Vlad Jr in September: .355/.412/.677, 6 HR, 7 RBI, 18 R. ... Most "value."
Vlad has had pressure to perform -- the Blue Jays desperately need him at his best if they are to make the playoffs. The only pressure Shohei has faced is the pressure he puts on himself.
As we sit here today, Vlad's the pretty easy MVP choice IMHO.
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Reely klassy how he threw da Kenosha schmuck under da bus, aina?
As I said, POS.
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Are we sure Ohtani is the MVP?
Like, I know his story is awesome, and it’s remarkable to be a two way player and be really good at both pitching and hitting, but man, he’s been borderline mediocre or if we really want to be honest, bad, since August 1st. The numbers are not kind. I don’t know how we just throw away a third of the season and dismiss it because he was crowned MVP in June.
I'm still pretty sure. I agree we shouldn't toss out the last third of the season, but he was so far ahead going into August that I also think its recency bias to say that he shouldn't win it right now. If Vlad mashes these final two weeks and Ohtani continues to crater, then maybe the numbers bear out a closer race. But right now, Ohtani is still almost a full win above replacement ahead of Vlad.
And I've never been one to factor in a team's competitive standing very heavily for MVP. We can say the Jays are in it becuase Vlad has been mashing, but the opposite is also true. Vlad bats behind the player that ranks 3rd in AL WAR and ahead of the player that ranks 19th. His counting numbers are going to be ridiculous, and he gets pitches to hit. Meanwhile, yesterday Ohtani batted between David Fletcher and Paul Gosselin.
I agree that its closer than it was a month ago, but I'd still vote for Ohtani today without a second thought.
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I’m not discounting his pitching, but at the plate, Vlad is 6.2 WAR, Ohtani is 4.3 WAR.
If the Jays end up hosting the AL Wild Card, meaning they’d have passed Boston & New York, that has to count for something, right?
I’m not trying to piss on Ohtani, I just think handing a guy an award in June doesn’t make sense.
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Are we sure Ohtani is the MVP?
It’s Yermin Mercedes. It’s always been Yermin Mercedes.
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I’m not discounting his pitching, but at the plate, Vlad is 6.2 WAR, Ohtani is 4.3 WAR.
If the Jays end up hosting the AL Wild Card, meaning they’d have passed Boston & New York, that has to count for something, right?
I’m not trying to piss on Ohtani, I just think handing a guy an award in June doesn’t make sense.
Yep.
I love watching Ohtani, or at least I did before he got bad. But crowning a guy on a non-contender on July 1 ... I don't get it.
I also don't get totally ignoring team results.
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It’s Yermin Mercedes. It’s always been Yermin Mercedes.
I’m ashamed I have future bets on him to win AL ROY.
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I’m not discounting his pitching, but at the plate, Vlad is 6.2 WAR, Ohtani is 4.3 WAR.
If the Jays end up hosting the AL Wild Card, meaning they’d have passed Boston & New York, that has to count for something, right?
I’m not trying to piss on Ohtani, I just think handing a guy an award in June doesn’t make sense.
I love watching Ohtani, or at least I did before he got bad. But crowning a guy on a non-contender on July 1 ... I don't get it.
I also don't get totally ignoring team results.
I agree that crowning a guy in June/July doesn't make sense, but I'm not saying he should win on first half WAR. His cumulative WAR is still almost a full game above replacement ahead of Vlad. That's full body of work, even with his August-September slump. I don't think August and September are a bonus round that should count for twice what early season stats do. Again if he stinks or gets shut down for the final two weeks, and if Vlad continues to mash and tightens the race to within a couple tenths of a WAR, then yeah I'd be fine with giving to Vlad, but we're just not there yet.
And I hate the focus on a team's record in determining MVP because IMO it tries to make baseball something its not. Baseball is a series of individual events that aggregate to a final score. It isn't football or basketball or hockey with an open field where players "take over." If a pitcher or batter is the best in baseball on a losing team, what more did you want him to do? That's even doubly true where you have a guy that pitches and hits:
If you take only Ohtani's hitting WAR, here is his AL company within 0.3 WAR: Bogaerts, Altuve, Matt Olson, Devers.
If you take only his pitching WAR, here is his AL company: Bassitt, Quantrill, McCullers, Berrios.
So on a playoff team, Ohtani would be a top of the order hitter and an SP2. In one guy. There is literally not more on aggregate stats a guy could do to put his team in the position to be successful. He eliminated the need for a whole rostered player, who on a playoff team would be one of their what, six best players? I would prefer it if Ohtani didn't totally crater at the end of the year to make the argument more difficult, but to me he's the definition of "most valuable" both from a team building standpoint and until Vlad passes him in WAR, from a pure statistical standpoint. The fact that the Angels pitchers have a cumulative 4.72 ERA and their hitters slug a cumulative .412 (both including Ohtani's team leading stats) doesnt change that he is by definition, "the most valuable."
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Fair take by Burrow, I wish both guys could get an award to be honest. I think both have done amazing things this year.
Part of the issue is Ohtani is a unicorn. If he has a year like this again next year (and someone like Vlad has a near triple crown), does Ohtani win it again? He should be awarded at some point, I guess we worry about that later.
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I agree that crowning a guy in June/July doesn't make sense, but I'm not saying he should win on first half WAR. His cumulative WAR is still almost a full game above replacement ahead of Vlad. That's full body of work, even with his August-September slump. I don't think August and September are a bonus round that should count for twice what early season stats do. Again if he stinks or gets shut down for the final two weeks, and if Vlad continues to mash and tightens the race to within a couple tenths of a WAR, then yeah I'd be fine with giving to Vlad, but we're just not there yet.
And I hate the focus on a team's record in determining MVP because IMO it tries to make baseball something its not. Baseball is a series of individual events that aggregate to a final score. It isn't football or basketball or hockey with an open field where players "take over." If a pitcher or batter is the best in baseball on a losing team, what more did you want him to do? That's even doubly true where you have a guy that pitches and hits:
If you take only Ohtani's hitting WAR, here is his AL company within 0.3 WAR: Bogaerts, Altuve, Matt Olson, Devers.
If you take only his pitching WAR, here is his AL company: Bassitt, Quantrill, McCullers, Berrios.
So on a playoff team, Ohtani would be a top of the order hitter and an SP2. In one guy. There is literally not more on aggregate stats a guy could do to put his team in the position to be successful. He eliminated the need for a whole rostered player, who on a playoff team would be one of their what, six best players? I would prefer it if Ohtani didn't totally crater at the end of the year to make the argument more difficult, but to me he's the definition of "most valuable" both from a team building standpoint and until Vlad passes him in WAR, from a pure statistical standpoint. The fact that the Angels pitchers have a cumulative 4.72 ERA and their hitters slug a cumulative .412 (both including Ohtani's team leading stats) doesnt change that he is by definition, "the most valuable."
I am not one who rejects WAR and other advanced metrics; I think they're important. But I also think there has to be room for nuance. And I actually DO think August and September should count more when talking about MVP. A good team's stud hitter faces special pressure in mid-September with the playoffs on the line that a bad team's stud simply doesn't.
As for the team aspect ... baseball is largely a mental game. And stars can lift (and have lifted) teams, given them confidence that they can do things like overcome huge deficits to get into the playoffs -- as Toronto could be on the verge of doing. It's one reason I think dominant pitchers should be MVP candidates, because they give their teams a psychological advantage.
"Yeah, but that isn't measurable by stats!" Well, that's why we've been given brains to think about these things rather than relying purely on numbers. It's why these awards are still voted on by human beings rather than just presented to the guy in the league with the best WAR.
That Vlad Guerrero Jr. could win the Triple Crown and lead a Toronto team that was projected to be .500 at best into the playoffs ... and lose the MVP to a guy who was bad (not average, but bad) in the second half of the season and whose team never sniffed contention ... that doesn't seem right to me.
Having said all that, I realize the specialness of what Ohtani has done, and I wouldn't be outraged or anything if he gets the MVP.
And I like these kinds of respectful discussions, MUB, so thanks.
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Yeah thanks guys, I love this stuff and there are a ton of merits to the arguments on both sides. And I think it is fair to point out that I'm a bit taken by the fact that we've never seen someone do what Ohtani is doing. He kind of breaks WAR and probably the notion of an MVP. Even medicore pitching and hitting seasons would make him a WAR leader and I could still make the "hey, he's a 5 hitter and an SP3 - that's more value than any single player provides!" argument. So there has to be a limit to that - or maybe there doesn't because the reason he breaks WAR is because what he's doing is nearly impossible? Idk, there's no silver bullet answer.
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Thinking Perez used his 2019 injury year to get a nice shipment of Ryan Braun’s old stash
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Marcus Semien has a higher WAR than Vlad; he is way more valuable defensively. He will end up with 40+ HR and 100+ RBI. He is a base stealing threat and a much better baserunner.
And no one talks about him in the MVP race.
I still go for Ohtani, although I understand the arguments of those who don't, but can you imagine how he would do if he had decent hitters surrounding him in the batting order.
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Argue about the AL MVP you all want, Yadier Molina has wrapped up the NL MVP
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Argue about the AL MVP you all want, Yadier Molina has wrapped up the NL MVP
I heard he may get the Cy Young, as well. Just because he handles pitchers in a great, fantastic way - greater and more fantastic than anyone in the history of the world. All of their success is due to Yadier.
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I heard he may get the Cy Young, as well. Just because he handles pitchers in a great, fantastic way - greater and more fantastic than anyone in the history of the world. All of their success is due to Yadier.
Chuck Norris wears a Yadier Molina jersey
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Ohtani’s pitching season is over, he’ll DH the rest of the season.
(This is a smart decision by the Angels & Ohtani).
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Marcus Semien has a higher WAR than Vlad; he is way more valuable defensively. He will end up with 40+ HR and 100+ RBI. He is a base stealing threat and a much better baserunner.
And no one talks about him in the MVP race.
I still go for Ohtani, although I understand the arguments of those who don't, but can you imagine how he would do if he had decent hitters surrounding him in the batting order.
Semien definitely deserves consideration, but he has the "misfortune" (in MVP terms) of being a teammate to a guy who leads the league in practically every offensive category and has a legit shot at the Triple Crown.
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Argue about the AL MVP you all want, Yadier Molina has wrapped up the NL MVP
Emma's.
Yadier Molina is going to win the Yadier Molina MVP Award.
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From The Athletic:
The Low-A West League is speeding up time, in baseball games, since it began experimenting with a 15-second pitch clock in June. As a result, the league has cut game times by 21 minutes.
That's the direct opposite of MLB, where the average time of a nine-inning game is up by nearly 20 minutes, just over the last 10 years — and by more than a half-hour since the '80s. With major-league games filled with plenty of dead time, the MLB commissioner's office is taking notice of the pitch clock's impact on the Low-A West League (formerly the California League).
"It really is an incredible experience," says former big-leaguer Raul Ibañez, who is one of the people overseeing this experiment in his role as a senior vice president of on-field operations for MLB. "It feels like the baseball games that I grew up watching in the '80s."
The length of games isn't the only thing affected by the newly implemented pitch clocks. The Low-A West League has also seen more runs and home runs, as well as fewer walks and strikeouts.
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Chuck Norris wears a Yadier Molina jersey
Well done
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For once I want the Twins to lose games. Help Blue Jays. Hurt Yanks.
Ryu comes out and starts throwing under hand.
Damn
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The Kolten Wong signing was so good.
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There’s an unnamed MLB manager of a team “more than likely” playing in October. If that manager doesn’t get an MRNA first dose by Oct 4th, and have his booster scheduled, said manager will not be allowed to manage in the playoffs.
I know TLR & Boone are vaccinated. Reckless speculation on my part…Kapler or Cora.
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There’s an unnamed MLB manager of a team “more than likely” playing in October. If that manager doesn’t get an MRNA first does by Oct 4th, and have his booster scheduled, said manager will not be allowed to manage in the playoffs.
I know TLR & Boone are vaccinated. Reckless speculation on my part…Kapler or Cora.
Do players have to be vaccinated to play in the playoffs? I didn’t realize there was a rule about managers.
I think Counsell has been pretty vocal about hoping players get vaccinated, so I would assume he is.
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There’s an unnamed MLB manager of a team “more than likely” playing in October. If that manager doesn’t get an MRNA first dose by Oct 4th, and have his booster scheduled, said manager will not be allowed to manage in the playoffs.
I know TLR & Boone are vaccinated. Reckless speculation on my part…Kapler or Cora.
Cora has been vaccinated.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonherald.com/2021/05/12/alex-cora-red-sox-getting-closer-to-85-fully-vaccinated-threshold/amp/
Kapler also got poked.
https://www.local10.com/sports/2021/03/29/the-latest-giants-manager-some-players-get-vaccinated/
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Some smart baseball person please explain why the Brewers continue to send Jackie Bradley Jr to the plate?
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Jettison his ass, hey?
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Some smart baseball person please explain why the Brewers continue to send Jackie Bradley Jr to the plate?
Because Cain got hurt.
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Nothin' a steam room and a whirlpool kant fix, hey?
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Nothin' a steam room and a whirlpool kant fix, hey?
I’d imagine Tyrone Taylor will get those at bats when he’s back
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Padres in total self destruct mode.
https://twitter.com/roflo/status/1439408264245088260?s=21
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Wow Pablo! Javy who?
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Padres in total self destruct mode.
https://twitter.com/roflo/status/1439408264245088260?s=21
To be fair, I'm not a Machado fan but I don't actually have an issue here. Tatis was arguing balls and strikes with an ump who had been terrible all night. The last thing they need is their star to get tossed. So Machado was telling him he's too important and to knock it off. It was actually leadership out of him for a change. Gassing him up and also keeping him straight.
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Some smart baseball person please explain why the Brewers continue to send Jackie Bradley Jr to the plate?
I will admit that I haven't followed the Brewers closely, and they have had some injuries, but this is a good and important question as the playoffs loom. I just looked at the stats: J. Bradley Jr has 366 AB's and is hitting a whopping.163 with 124 strike outs . I would imagine he's a good fielder but can't they find someone to replace him in their playoff line-up? What are we missing here?
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Yelich, Garcia, and Cain will be your outfielder every day in the Playoffs. So you’re just looking for specific situations. If you need a bat from the outfield to pinch hit, Bradley won’t be that player. But their backups on the infield are all bats more than defense. So there’s a spot to bring him in and have him come in for an Avisail if Garcia makes the last out in the 7th and you have a 1 run lead.
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Yelich, Garcia, and Cain will be your outfielder every day in the Playoffs. So you’re just looking for specific situations. If you need a bat from the outfield to pinch hit, Bradley won’t be that player. But their backups on the infield are all bats more than defense. So there’s a spot to bring him in and have him come in for an Avisail if Garcia makes the last out in the 7th and you have a 1 run lead.
So, they only have 4 guys who can play the outfield? As far as I can tell he's the only major weak spot in their line-up.
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So, they only have 4 guys who can play the outfield? As far as I can tell he's the only major weak spot in their line-up.
He’s their best defensive outfielder and leads the team in dWAR. As BLM said he won’t be playing regularly. Most likely a defensive substitute.
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Yes. At this time of year, your roster is your roster and your role is your role. Barring injuries. So dance with who you brought.
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He’s their best defensive outfielder and leads the team in dWAR. As BLM said he won’t be playing regularly. Most likely a defensive substitute.
What happened to the guy? He was a pretty good hitter.
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You can ask that about so many players. Pitchers found a weakness. His eyesight changed by 1%. A tiny change to his swing that can't be fixed or identified. An intentional swing change that didn't work and cant be reversed. Confidence. Pick one
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He’s their best defensive outfielder and leads the team in dWAR. As BLM said he won’t be playing regularly. Most likely a defensive substitute.
Like Fuff said, JBJ will be playing 'defense only' when it counts, post 7th inning. Tyrone Taylor is actually their 4th OF right now getting his ABs down at Nashville on a rehab. I'm thinking that IF they needed to IR Cain (don't think they do), Taylor would be back in a heartbeat. The next step is to send Rowdy. Haven't heard how close he is.
No Brewer with as much as a hangnail is playing right now. The ONLY thing that is important is getting healthy and getting enough playing time either in MKE or BNA to be in the groove in 2 weeks.
So here's the possible treat for me. IF the Crew knocks off the Cards tomorrow, Chick and I will be in the house Tuesday for the first possible 'celebration' game. It's not if, but when. Then it's October baseball!
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I will admit that I haven't followed the Brewers closely, and they have had some injuries, but this is a good and important question as the playoffs loom. I just looked at the stats: J. Bradley Jr has 366 AB's and is hitting a whopping.163 with 124 strike outs . I would imagine he's a good fielder but can't they find someone to replace him in their playoff line-up? What are we missing here?
He’s a great fielder
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Dang, On Base Jace had a good pitch to hit. No matter.
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Bradley is 1 for 31 with 1 walk and 15 K’s this month. He’s .162 for the season. He’s hitting like a pitcher.
So everyone will be just fine when he comes up in a late inning, key AB right? Because inserting him as a defensive replacement in the late innings means he’ll never be up in a situation with the game on the line after the bullpen has blown a lead, a chance to add an insurance run, etc.
He’s as close to an automatic out as you can get right now. Peterson can play the OF, and Taylor is nearly ready to return and plays CF.
He would not be on my Brewers playoff roster, and with his struggles continuing, chances probably keep increasing Brewers will agree. He is nowhere near an automatic to be included with their depth and his horrible slump.
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What happened to the guy? He was a pretty good hitter.
Same thin' dat happens ta golf swings. Sumthin' gets fooked up, aina?
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JBJ is one of the worst hitters and one of the best defenders in the game. Saw an article the other day about his advanced stats, but can't find it now. Basically his defense makes up for his ass offense.
Like others said, he'll only be a defensive replacement in the playoffs.
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Same thin' dat happens ta golf swings. Sumthin' gets fooked up, aina?
Ha!! Fair enough.
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JBJ was the ALCS MVP 3 years ago. I think the moment is more likely to be too big for Jayce or Tyrone pinch hitting than it is for JBJ as a defensive replacement.
I’m not certain JBJ should make the Playoff roster. But he definitely brings value.
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The Redbird Rises.
Left for dead and light years away from a lowly wild card position in the playoffs, he's suddenly coming to life. Now 3.5 games ahead of Cincinnati for the last playoff spot and winner of eight in a row. What they did to the Padres this weekend was amazing (and what the Padres did to themselves was equally amazing). They're getting timely hitting, decent starting pitching and the bullpen is a push rather than being a band of arsonists.
Jack Flaherty is traveling with the team and in Milwaukee this week to do a bullpen session.
Thank God for Adam Wainwright!!!!
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The Redbird Rises.
Left for dead and light years away from a lowly wild card position in the playoffs, he's suddenly coming to life. Now 3.5 games ahead of Cincinnati for the last playoff spot and winner of eight in a row. What they did to the Padres this weekend was amazing (and what the Padres did to themselves was equally amazing). They're getting timely hitting, decent starting pitching and the bullpen is a push rather than being a band of arsonists.
Jack Flaherty is traveling with the team and in Milwaukee this week to do a bullpen session.
Thank God for Adam Wainwright!!!!
Best of luck in a one game playoff if the current standings hold against Scherzer, who has an era under one since joining LA. Although I would be rooting for your Cards to knock them out. LA worries me more than any team for the Brewers to get past.
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Best of luck in a one game playoff if the current standings hold against Scherzer, who has an era under one since joining LA. Although I would be rooting for your Cards to knock them out. LA worries me more than any team for the Brewers to get past.
In the not-so-olden days, when there were only 4 playoff teams in each league, the Dodgers and Giants would have both been guaranteed playoff spots; while each would have still liked to win the division in that scenario, they wouldn't have gone all-out to do so as they are now.
The Brewers will benefit (theoretically, at least) from neither team being able to rest its players and set up a postseason rotation yet, and especially from one having to burn its No. 1 starter in the play-in game. And that's even if the Dodgers, who probably are the best team in baseball, survive the play-in game. Anything can happen in a 1-game playoff.
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Best of luck in a one game playoff if the current standings hold against Scherzer, who has an era under one since joining LA. Although I would be rooting for your Cards to knock them out. LA worries me more than any team for the Brewers to get past.
Wainwright has been smoking the league all year, so I suspect St. Louis probably could hold its own for six innings. The problem, Brother Hutch, is the bullpen. Damn arsonists ought to be arrested and sent down to Memphis, though Reyes seems to be stabilized as of late.
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The Redbird Rises.
Hah, congrats (maybe). I too wrote them off at the trade deadline. And they have risen - or more accurately the other playoff contenders have sunk since the deadline. Nonetheless they result is (may be...) the same.
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The Redbird Rises.
Left for dead and light years away from a lowly wild card position in the playoffs, he's suddenly coming to life. Now 3.5 games ahead of Cincinnati for the last playoff spot and winner of eight in a row. What they did to the Padres this weekend was amazing (and what the Padres did to themselves was equally amazing). They're getting timely hitting, decent starting pitching and the bullpen is a push rather than being a band of arsonists.
Jack Flaherty is traveling with the team and in Milwaukee this week to do a bullpen session.
Thank God for Adam Wainwright!!!!
Look who is back on the thread!!!!! :o
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Hah, congrats (maybe). I too wrote them off at the trade deadline. And they have risen - or more accurately the other playoff contenders have sunk since the deadline. Nonetheless they result is (may be...) the same.
This is stupid. The Cards are 12-5 in September, all against playoff contenders.
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Look who is back on the thread!!!!! :o
If you ever heard the old theme song to the Mr. Ed show...
"... But Mr. Ed will never speak unless he has something to say..."
I finally have something worth talking about. And Glow, your Brewers better watch out. The Cardinals are coming!!!!!!!
Other good news is Dakota Hudson is pitching in Memphis as part of a rehab assignment. If he comes back and Flaherty looks good, the Cardinals will have pitching coming out of their pitching.
It's time to do a little Bear hunting and to prove better baseball, like better beer, comes from St. Louis!
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I think the Brewers are okay with their own pitching staff.
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This is stupid. The Cards are 12-5 in September, all against playoff contenders.
Indeed, Facts are stupid:
https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/1439918973789876233
"The Padres had a .574 winning pct. through August 10. That projects to 92.9 wins over a full 162-game schedule. Since August 11, SD has played .294 baseball (10-24). That would project to 47.6 wins (or about 114-115 losses) over a full 162-game season."
edit: oh, and the Mets aren't playoff contenders. so make that 9-5
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#1 The Cardinals have had an impressive turnaround to earn their playoff spot.
#2 The Padres have had a spectacular freefall to lose their playoff spot.
#3 The Cardinals would not be in the driver's seat for a playoff spot if either #1 or #2 did not happen.
All three things are true
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#1 The Cardinals have had an impressive turnaround to earn their playoff spot.
#2 The Padres have had a spectacular freefall to lose their playoff spot.
#3 The Cardinals would not be in the driver's seat for a playoff spot if either #1 or #2 did not happen.
All three things are true
Cardinals blow
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Cardinals blow
All four things can be true
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Indeed, Facts are stupid:
https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/1439918973789876233
"The Padres had a .574 winning pct. through August 10. That projects to 92.9 wins over a full 162-game schedule. Since August 11, SD has played .294 baseball (10-24). That would project to 47.6 wins (or about 114-115 losses) over a full 162-game season."
edit: oh, and the Mets aren't playoff contenders. so make that 9-5
Padres haven't had a winning month since June. Their collapse has been happening for a long time. Their pitching is bad.
The Cards have stepped up pretty seriously. The other teams have fallen off as well. But to try to say they haven't taken control of their own fate is petty and stupid.
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All four things can be true
The Cardinal Way
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Padres haven't had a winning month since June. Their collapse has been happening for a long time. Their pitching is bad.
The Cards have stepped up pretty seriously. The other teams have fallen off as well. But to try to say they haven't taken control of their own fate is petty and stupid.
I guess you should read my original words again, and try not to fly off the handle then:
Hah, congrats (maybe). I too wrote them off at the trade deadline. And they have risen - or more accurately the other playoff contenders have sunk since the deadline. Nonetheless the result is (may be...) the same.
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Basically his defense makes up for his ass offense.
If that’s the case, he owes a home run fir the ass throw he just had allowing Carpenter to score.
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If that’s the case, he owes a home run fir the ass throw he just had allowing Carpenter to score.
You're right. One bad defensive play in an entire season makes him a poor defensive player.
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JBJ is one of the worst hitters and one of the best defenders in the game. Saw an article the other day about his advanced stats, but can't find it now. Basically his defense makes up for his ass offense.
Like others said, he'll only be a defensive replacement in the playoffs.
His defense doesn't come close to making up for hitting like a pitcher. Cain is able to do the same things. I'd take Taylor on the playoff roster 8 days a week over JBJ. Pinch hitting matters in the playoffs.
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His defense doesn't come close to making up for hitting like a pitcher. Cain is able to do the same things. I'd take Taylor on the playoff roster 8 days a week over JBJ. Pinch hitting matters in the playoffs.
He won't be batting in the Playoffs.
And again, he's 3 years removed from winning the ALCS MVP. He's proven the lights are not too bright. Tyrone Taylor has 65 career hits.
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Taylor certainly making his case for a playoff roster spot today.
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AL Central champs.
Hopefully this October appearance is better than last year.
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Concern level for the brewers starting to rise a little.
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Concern level for the brewers starting to rise a little.
Why?
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Because they've been playing like sh*t for over a week now with their only wins being two come from behinds against the Cubs. Getting swept at home by the Cardinals two weeks before the playoffs begin is a cause for some concern. (If they don't come back today that is.)
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They're fine. They've been locked into the 2 seed for months. The Dodgers have always been the best team in baseball. If the Cardinals take out the Dodgers in the Wild Card round, the Brewers are in great shape.
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Only time will tell if my concerns are justified.
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They're fine. They've been locked into the 2 seed for months. The Dodgers have always been the best team in baseball. If the Cardinals take out the Dodgers in the Wild Card round, the Brewers are in great shape.
I disagree about them being fine. Losing 7 of 9 and being generally inept in all three facets of the game isn't good. The bullpen leaking oil is a major concern.
Yes, they'll still win the division, but my hopes for the postseason have changed.
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I disagree about them being fine. Losing 7 of 9 and being generally inept in all three facets of the game isn't good. The bullpen leaking oil is a major concern.
Yes, they'll still win the division, but my hopes for the postseason have changed.
Cousins and Ashby will get very few, if any, innings in the Playoffs. They're playing to be healthy come Playoff baseball, not to win this week's baseball games. These games are meaningless for the Brewers.
They'll start Burnes, Woody, and Freddy and their bullpen will be Lauer (who will get a start if they get to the NLCS), Hauser, Boxburger, Williams, and Hader. I'm not worried one bit about their bullpen for Playoff purposes.
Could they lose to the Braves in the NLDS? Of course. The Braves are good and a 5 game series in baseball hardly guarantees the best team comes out of it. But my level of concern for where the Brewers are now is no different than where it was a month ago or a week ago. They're the second best team in the NL.
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But they do need to find a way to put their foot back on the gas. This last week has been their worst since probably May. And that's no way to head into the postseason.
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If you like money, Cleveland is +112 on FD for Game 2.
The Sox are basically taking the 9 guys that are sober. I think if they could forfeit game 2 tonight, they would.
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If you like money, Cleveland is +112 on FD for Game 2.
The Sox are basically taking the 9 guys that are sober. I think if they could forfeit game 2 tonight, they would.
My Sox total wins bet does not approve.
In fact, it sort of hates the whole second half.
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I'm fine with this mini-slump. Get the losses out of the way before the playoffs start.
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Obviously, none of this matters, as MIL has been set to host ATL in the NLDS for weeks.
But, the Brewers’ record for wins in a season is 96, (achieved in both 2011 and 2018). On September 10, MIL was 87-55, and only needed to go .500 in the final 20 games to break their team record.
It’s still possible, but they would now need to go 6-3 against NYM, STL, and LAD to get to 97 wins.
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My Sox total wins bet does not approve.
In fact, it sort of hates the whole second half.
The day Eloy got hurt in spring training, I grabbed Sox under 91.5. It’s been odd cheering them to win and lose at the same time. I feel better about the bet now since they’re locked into the 3 seed more or less.
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Yeli is giving away 10,000 tickets in 5 minutes. See you there!
https://www.mlb.com/brewers/tickets/specials/yelich
#ThisIsMyCrew
Yelich went 0-11 with 2 BB, (one intentional), in the four games for which he bought tickets.
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The day Eloy got hurt in spring training, I grabbed Sox under 91.5. It’s been odd cheering them to win and lose at the same time. I feel better about the bet now since they’re locked into the 3 seed more or less.
Ha. I've got over 90.5.
Let's go .500 the rest of the way and we'll meet in the middle as winners.
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Ha. I've got over 90.5.
Let's go .500 the rest of the way and we'll meet in the middle as winners.
I like it.
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That smoke trail you saw today leaving AmFam was a Redbird absolutely smoking the Brewers. Fly high Redbird, fly high.
Not sure any team wants to face these guys right now.
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O/U 1.5 playoff games for the Cards? I’m going under.
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O/U 1.5 playoff games for the Cards? I’m going under.
Agreed.
I would love to be wrong though. Taking out the Dodgers and then Giants would be awesome.
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Agreed.
I would love to be wrong though. Taking out the Dodgers and then Giants would be awesome.
I'd be insufferable!
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This Cardinals run is eff’n ridiculous.
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Better now than in the playoffs. Peaking too soon!
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This Cardinals run is eff’n ridiculous.
I prefer to think of it as wonderful.
While the little Cubbie bear beds down fir winter hibernation, the Cardinal flies high headed into his favorite month — October.
Except for a few times in the last 108 years, the Cubbie bear knows not the thrill of October baseball. He sleeps mightily while the redbird of the south flies brightly toward another championship.
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Man Robin Yount is something…
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He won't be batting in the Playoffs.
And again, he's 3 years removed from winning the ALCS MVP. He's proven the lights are not too bright. Tyrone Taylor has 65 career hits.
JBJ is the streakiest of streaky hitters. He basically was a .200 - .220 type hitter for the Red Sox except one month a year when he was Willie Mays in his prime. Looks like he never had his Willie Mays month this year.
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JBJ is the streakiest of streaky hitters. He basically was a .200 - .220 type hitter for the Red Sox except one month a year when he was Willie Mays in his prime. Looks like he never had his Willie Mays month this year.
So you’re saying it will be October then. 😉
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Brewers need to put the division away today. Nothing can be assumed going into two road series against the Cardinals and Dodgers. And I’m sure counting in nothing from the Cubs today either.
Damn Cardinals, they just rarely go away quietly.
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Brewers don’t need to win today.
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Brewers don’t need to win today.
No kidding.
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You’re probably both right and if they lose and Cards win again today, winning 1 with 6 chances will get done. Too many crazy things happen in sports to assume it though. Finish the job today and remove all doubt. They aren’t playing the Pirates and Diamondbacks after today.
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A-Rod just used the phrase “Balls to the wall” on national TV.
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Really hoping when the 2022 AL MVP odds open, Luis Robert shows up around +3000 or higher. He’s going to win an MVP (if he stays healthy) in the next 3 years.
In 63 games this year, he’s a 3.0 WAR player, not including tonight’s game (two homers).
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That Devin Williams injury…wow. What a stupid thing to do, a huge blow to the Brewers.
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That Devin Williams injury…wow. What a stupid thing to do, a huge blow to the Brewers.
(https://c.tenor.com/D8U9CyNuL5wAAAAC/disappointed-face-palm.gif)
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Joel Zumaya. Guitar Hero.
But yes, this is dumb and hurts the team.
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Was hoping we’d dodge the random injury to good pitcher late in the season of a really good year. We’ve had some bad luck with Nelson and Woodruff. It feels like there was another one too recently.
Also, Sheets in 2008.
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that's a big bummer.
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They really need Strickland, Cousins, and Boxberger to step into Williams role. I’m very concerned that Cousins can handle late innings in postseason.
Williams is like having two closers. This is a significant loss. Hopefully their depth will get them through. I’ve done my share of stupid drunken things, injury to myself is not among them. Unbelievable.
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They really need Strickland, Cousins, and Boxberger to step into Williams role. I’m very concerned that Cousins can handle late innings in postseason.
Williams is like having two closers. This is a significant loss. Hopefully their depth will get them through. I’ve done my share of stupid drunken things, injury to myself is not among them. Unbelievable.
Houser and Ashby will see high leverage spots.
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Houser and Ashby will see high leverage spots.
High leverage spots in postseason is asking a lot for a guy who’s been a starter his whole career and hasn’t really pitched in relief in two years, and a talented, but erratic rookie.
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Firewater iz a bitch, aina?
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https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/77a8f657-8365-485f-b028-ad941012f8f6
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High leverage spots in postseason is asking a lot for a guy who’s been a starter his whole career and hasn’t really pitched in relief in two years, and a talented, but erratic rookie.
The talented rookie has been anything but erratic. Incredibly consistent since his one bad outing in his MLB debut.
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Congrats to everyone cashing Sox over 90.5 wins. I’m going to sweat my under 91.5 this weekend. Hoping for loss/loss/rainout against Detroit.
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The talented rookie has been anything but erratic. Incredibly consistent since his one bad outing in his MLB debut.
🙄
6 days ago he pitched 2 innings, gave up 2 ER, walk, two hits, including a HR, and took the loss to STL in what was a high leverage situation.
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🙄
6 days ago he pitched 2 innings, gave up 2 ER, walk, two hits, including a HR, and took the loss to STL in what was a high leverage situation.
So are you saying that every MLB pitcher is inconsistent? Using your reasoning, I challenge you to name one pitcher in either league who is consistent. I will then point to ONE GAME that proves you wrong. ::)
Other than his MLB debut, Ashby’s ERA is outstanding
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So are you saying that every MLB pitcher is inconsistent? Using your reasoning, I challenge you to name one pitcher in either league who is consistent. I will then point to ONE GAME that proves you wrong. ::)
Other than his MLB debut, Ashby’s ERA is outstanding
You said he’s been “incredibly consistent” since his MLB debut. I pointed out that isn’t accurate with evidence not even a week old.
So now you’re just being obtuse, or you’re incapable of following an argument.
Have a lovely night Jockey.
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You said he’s been “incredibly consistent” since his MLB debut. I pointed out that isn’t accurate with evidence not even a week old.
So now you’re just being obtuse, or you’re incapable of following an argument.
Have a lovely night Jockey.
He gave up 4 ER in 2/3 of an inning in his 1st start and since then in 11 games has given up runs in 3 games. His ERA is is 2.90, his FIP is 2.94. He has 38 K’s in his last 30 IP. He’s been used as a long man in many of those spots and been brilliant.
Houser started his career in 2018 coming out of the pen and made 17 relief appearances in 2019.
Is it ideal. No way and I won’t make that argument but I won’t be surprised if Ashby is a major contributor in October.
We should probably assume Houser and Lauer will be the #4 depending on matchups, however. It’s possible they decide Houser is better matchup as a game 4 starter than Lauer so it might take him out of the running.
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He gave up 4 ER in 2/3 of an inning in his 1st start and since then in 11 games has given up runs in 3 games. His ERA is is 2.90, his FIP is 2.94. He has 38 K’s in his last 30 IP. He’s been used as a long man in many of those spots and been brilliant.
Houser started his career in 2018 coming out of the pen and made 17 relief appearances in 2019.
Is it ideal. No way and I won’t make that argument but I won’t be surprised if Ashby is a major contributor in October.
We should probably assume Houser and Lauer will be the #4 depending on matchups, however. It’s possible they decide Houser is better matchup as a game 4 starter than Lauer so it might take him out of the running.
I like Ashby a ton, who wouldn’t with his stuff. I just think there needs to be a lot of caution assuming he’ll be a reliable, high leverage guy in postseason. That’s what I’m trying to argue here. He’s 23, with all of 12 appearances in the big leagues, and didn’t perform well in a high leverage situation a week ago today against another playoff team in a game that was still important at the time for both teams. High leverage spots in the regular season is hard, multiply that for postseason.
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https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/77a8f657-8365-485f-b028-ad941012f8f6
Was just going to say, did he learn nothing from Bull Durham?
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I like Ashby a ton, who wouldn’t with his stuff. I just think there needs to be a lot of caution assuming he’ll be a reliable, high leverage guy in postseason. That’s what I’m trying to argue here. He’s 23, with all of 12 appearances in the big leagues, and didn’t perform well in a high leverage situation a week ago today against another playoff team in a game that was still important at the time for both teams. High leverage spots in the regular season is hard, multiply that for postseason.
Those are fair and valid concerns. A lot of guys didn’t perform against the Cardinals the last 3 weeks, too. I doubt Ashby is the 8th inning guy all of a sudden but I’ll trust what Counsell does either way
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shoothoops, degies.......
We got room on the bandwagon brothers! ;D
The Cardinals went 19-3 after this post. If only you had picked New York or L.A. or somewhere else I’ve lived. But from the looks of the posts the past few months while I haven’t been around, and really, the past 15 years here for some, The Stl remains pretty popular I have nothing against Dgies, but we don’t post the same, and we’d likely disagree on many things related to Stl or the Cardinals.
Before the season I posted that I thought the Cardinals would be a team in the mix in the NL Central, but they needed to add some pieces. (They didn’t). Before the season I posted to little interest that Kolten Wong was a good pickup for the Brewers with his GG defense and pop at the plate in a more hitter friendly place. He was. (The Cardinals wanted to play Edman there for. year before Nolan Gorman plays there.)
During the season I posted to explain their thought process behind a few starting pitching acquisitions (and relief) whether or not they would work remained to be seen. They were within 2nd WC reach, they needed to bridge a starting pitching gap due to injuries, and, they don’t tank as an organizational philosophy. They had used a dozen different starting pitchers because of it. It worked for them as Lester and Happ each had about 8 of 10, 9 of 11 good starts with an E.R.A. in the 2’s in those good starts. Part of it is being open to change as Lester was for example. He changed pitch selection and pitch sequence. He loves 4 seam fastballs, but, he was willing to throw changeups and sinkers earlier in the count. It worked for him. The Brewers had similar success with a different type of pitcher, Strickland.
How did they do it? It’s never one thing. But quality starts is a good place to start. Their record with and without it is eye poppingly different. Getting that while having a league best defense (even w/o Wong) helped. Adding two reliable relievers (Garcia, McFarland) to bullpen depth helped. Timely hitting helped. They have been successful in key hitting situations. And, some players had their luck even out a bit. Goldschmidt for example had less success earlier in he season even though his exit velocity, and all of those modern day hitting stats were in his favor. He’s raised his OPS every month of the season. (Lots of warm weather hitters on Stl). They now have a big 3 of hitters.
All of that “only” gets them in the playoffs as a 2nd WC. That’s because they weren’t very good earlier in the season. But historically the Cardinals have often been one of baseball’s best teams later in the season. Since 1985 the Cardinals have had 4 100 plus win teams, a dozen 90 plus win teams, etc…but the two of those playoff teams that won the WS were a WC team (2011) and an 83 win regular season team.(2006) A long 162 game regular season, and, short best of 7 playoff series are two different things.
And, if the Cardinals play the Dodgers and face Max Scherzer it will illustrate an additional point. There is some thought that when Uncle Walt and TLR ran the Cardinals, they would push ownership to take a good team and try to add to make it a great team. And, that post that era, and in the “MO” era, the (uneven) drafting and player development philosophy has been more about building teams to contend for NL Central and get in to the playoff mix. (more Tyler O’Neill’s and Dylan Carlson’s) Some would suggest the middle. Anyway, Max Scherzer has dominated the Cardinals in recent years ever since they chose not to sign him long term in 2015, when he wanted to play for his home town team. (Cards have had more success vs Kershaw historically, and even Buehler lately) They felt they were good enough w/o him and the cost was 7 years, $210 Million. The Cardinals won 100 games that year. But it was short sighted by the Cardinals as Scherzer has out performed his contract. (it’s all relative as we are talking big money here) So Max will be jacked up even more than normal if possible, if that happens.
The Cardinals would rather be in a different position, and they didn’t do enough before the season to do that, but, they are once again, in the mix.
The Brewers did a good job with player acquisition and building their team.
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The Cardinals went 19-3 after this post. If only you had picked New York or L.A. or somewhere else I’ve lived. But from the looks of the posts the past few months while I haven’t been around, and really, the past 15 years here for some, The Stl remains pretty popular I have nothing against Dgies, but we don’t post the same, and we’d likely disagree on many things related to Stl or the Cardinals.
Before the season I posted that I thought the Cardinals would be a team in the mix in the NL Central, but they needed to add some pieces. (They didn’t). Before the season I posted to little interest that Kolten Wong was a good pickup for the Brewers with his GG defense and pop at the plate in a more hitter friendly place. He was. (The Cardinals wanted to play Edman there for. year before Nolan Gorman plays there.)
During the season I posted to explain their thought process behind a few starting pitching acquisitions (and relief) whether or not they would work remained to be seen. They were within 2nd WC reach, they needed to bridge a starting pitching gap due to injuries, and, they don’t tank as an organizational philosophy. They had used a dozen different starting pitchers because of it. It worked for them as Lester and Happ each had about 8 of 10, 9 of 11 good starts with an E.R.A. in the 2’s in those good starts. Part of it is being open to change as Lester was for example. He changed pitch selection and pitch sequence. He loves 4 seam fastballs, but, he was willing to throw changeups and sinkers earlier in the count. It worked for him. The Brewers had similar success with a different type of pitcher, Strickland.
How did they do it? It’s never one thing. But quality starts is a good place to start. Their record with and without it is eye poppingly different. Getting that while having a league best defense (even w/o Wong) helped. Adding two reliable relievers (Garcia, McFarland) to bullpen depth helped. Timely hitting helped. They have been successful in key hitting situations. And, some players had their luck even out a bit. Goldschmidt for example had less success earlier in he season even though his exit velocity, and all of those modern day hitting stats were in his favor. He’s raised his OPS every month of the season. (Lots of warm weather hitters on Stl). They now have a big 3 of hitters.
All of that “only” gets them in the playoffs as a 2nd WC. That’s because they weren’t very good earlier in the season. But historically the Cardinals have often been one of baseball’s best teams later in the season. Since 1985 the Cardinals have had 4 100 plus win teams, a dozen 90 plus win teams, etc…but the two of those playoff teams that won the WS were a WC team (2011) and an 83 win regular season team.(2006) A long 162 game regular season, and, short best of 7 playoff series are two different things.
And, if the Cardinals play the Dodgers and face Max Scherzer it will illustrate an additional point. There is some thought that when Uncle Walt and TLR ran the Cardinals, they would push ownership to take a good team and try to add to make it a great team. And, that post that era, and in the “MO” era, the (uneven) drafting and player development philosophy has been more about building teams to contend for NL Central and get in to the playoff mix. (more Tyler O’Neill’s and Dylan Carlson’s) Some would suggest the middle. Anyway, Max Scherzer has dominated the Cardinals in recent years ever since they chose not to sign him long term in 2015, when he wanted to play for his home town team. (Cards have had more success vs Kershaw historically, and even Buehler lately) They felt they were good enough w/o him and the cost was 7 years, $210 Million. The Cardinals won 100 games that year. But it was short sighted by the Cardinals as Scherzer has out performed his contract. (it’s all relative as we are talking big money here) So Max will be jacked up even more than normal if possible, if that happens.
The Cardinals would rather be in a different position, and they didn’t do enough before the season to do that, but, they are once again, in the mix.
The Brewers did a good job with player acquisition and building their team.
Molina sucks
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The Cardinals went 19-3 after this post. If only you had picked New York or L.A. or somewhere else I’ve lived. But from the looks of the posts the past few months while I haven’t been around, and really, the past 15 years here for some, The Stl remains pretty popular I have nothing against Dgies, but we don’t post the same, and we’d likely disagree on many things related to Stl or the Cardinals.
Before the season I posted that I thought the Cardinals would be a team in the mix in the NL Central, but they needed to add some pieces. (They didn’t). Before the season I posted to little interest that Kolten Wong was a good pickup for the Brewers with his GG defense and pop at the plate in a more hitter friendly place. He was. (The Cardinals wanted to play Edman there for. year before Nolan Gorman plays there.)
During the season I posted to explain their thought process behind a few starting pitching acquisitions (and relief) whether or not they would work remained to be seen. They were within 2nd WC reach, they needed to bridge a starting pitching gap due to injuries, and, they don’t tank as an organizational philosophy. They had used a dozen different starting pitchers because of it. It worked for them as Lester and Happ each had about 8 of 10, 9 of 11 good starts with an E.R.A. in the 2’s in those good starts. Part of it is being open to change as Lester was for example. He changed pitch selection and pitch sequence. He loves 4 seam fastballs, but, he was willing to throw changeups and sinkers earlier in the count. It worked for him. The Brewers had similar success with a different type of pitcher, Strickland.
How did they do it? It’s never one thing. But quality starts is a good place to start. Their record with and without it is eye poppingly different. Getting that while having a league best defense (even w/o Wong) helped. Adding two reliable relievers (Garcia, McFarland) to bullpen depth helped. Timely hitting helped. They have been successful in key hitting situations. And, some players had their luck even out a bit. Goldschmidt for example had less success earlier in he season even though his exit velocity, and all of those modern day hitting stats were in his favor. He’s raised his OPS every month of the season. (Lots of warm weather hitters on Stl). They now have a big 3 of hitters.
All of that “only” gets them in the playoffs as a 2nd WC. That’s because they weren’t very good earlier in the season. But historically the Cardinals have often been one of baseball’s best teams later in the season. Since 1985 the Cardinals have had 4 100 plus win teams, a dozen 90 plus win teams, etc…but the two of those playoff teams that won the WS were a WC team (2011) and an 83 win regular season team.(2006) A long 162 game regular season, and, short best of 7 playoff series are two different things.
And, if the Cardinals play the Dodgers and face Max Scherzer it will illustrate an additional point. There is some thought that when Uncle Walt and TLR ran the Cardinals, they would push ownership to take a good team and try to add to make it a great team. And, that post that era, and in the “MO” era, the (uneven) drafting and player development philosophy has been more about building teams to contend for NL Central and get in to the playoff mix. (more Tyler O’Neill’s and Dylan Carlson’s) Some would suggest the middle. Anyway, Max Scherzer has dominated the Cardinals in recent years ever since they chose not to sign him long term in 2015, when he wanted to play for his home town team. (Cards have had more success vs Kershaw historically, and even Buehler lately) They felt they were good enough w/o him and the cost was 7 years, $210 Million. The Cardinals won 100 games that year. But it was short sighted by the Cardinals as Scherzer has out performed his contract. (it’s all relative as we are talking big money here) So Max will be jacked up even more than normal if possible, if that happens.
The Cardinals would rather be in a different position, and they didn’t do enough before the season to do that, but, they are once again, in the mix.
The Brewers did a good job with player acquisition and building their team.
19-3 since the post...and still 7 games back of the Brewers.
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Does that Scherzer performance last night make the Cy Young Corbin's to lose?
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I have nothing against Dgies, but we don’t post the same, and we’d likely disagree on many things related to Stl or the Cardinals.
Strange as it may seem in here, you can disagree with me without disliking me.
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Strange as it may seem in here, you can disagree with me without disliking me.
Right. That's why prefaced with that. And, I'm sure depending on the subtopic, I'm sure there would be some agreement mixed in as well.
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The Cardinals went 19-3 after this post. If only you had picked New York or L.A. or somewhere else I’ve lived. But from the looks of the posts the past few months while I haven’t been around, and really, the past 15 years here for some, The Stl remains pretty popular I have nothing against Dgies, but we don’t post the same, and we’d likely disagree on many things related to Stl or the Cardinals.
Before the season I posted that I thought the Cardinals would be a team in the mix in the NL Central, but they needed to add some pieces. (They didn’t). Before the season I posted to little interest that Kolten Wong was a good pickup for the Brewers with his GG defense and pop at the plate in a more hitter friendly place. He was. (The Cardinals wanted to play Edman there for. year before Nolan Gorman plays there.)
During the season I posted to explain their thought process behind a few starting pitching acquisitions (and relief) whether or not they would work remained to be seen. They were within 2nd WC reach, they needed to bridge a starting pitching gap due to injuries, and, they don’t tank as an organizational philosophy. They had used a dozen different starting pitchers because of it. It worked for them as Lester and Happ each had about 8 of 10, 9 of 11 good starts with an E.R.A. in the 2’s in those good starts. Part of it is being open to change as Lester was for example. He changed pitch selection and pitch sequence. He loves 4 seam fastballs, but, he was willing to throw changeups and sinkers earlier in the count. It worked for him. The Brewers had similar success with a different type of pitcher, Strickland.
How did they do it? It’s never one thing. But quality starts is a good place to start. Their record with and without it is eye poppingly different. Getting that while having a league best defense (even w/o Wong) helped. Adding two reliable relievers (Garcia, McFarland) to bullpen depth helped. Timely hitting helped. They have been successful in key hitting situations. And, some players had their luck even out a bit. Goldschmidt for example had less success earlier in he season even though his exit velocity, and all of those modern day hitting stats were in his favor. He’s raised his OPS every month of the season. (Lots of warm weather hitters on Stl). They now have a big 3 of hitters.
All of that “only” gets them in the playoffs as a 2nd WC. That’s because they weren’t very good earlier in the season. But historically the Cardinals have often been one of baseball’s best teams later in the season. Since 1985 the Cardinals have had 4 100 plus win teams, a dozen 90 plus win teams, etc…but the two of those playoff teams that won the WS were a WC team (2011) and an 83 win regular season team.(2006) A long 162 game regular season, and, short best of 7 playoff series are two different things.
And, if the Cardinals play the Dodgers and face Max Scherzer it will illustrate an additional point. There is some thought that when Uncle Walt and TLR ran the Cardinals, they would push ownership to take a good team and try to add to make it a great team. And, that post that era, and in the “MO” era, the (uneven) drafting and player development philosophy has been more about building teams to contend for NL Central and get in to the playoff mix. (more Tyler O’Neill’s and Dylan Carlson’s) Some would suggest the middle. Anyway, Max Scherzer has dominated the Cardinals in recent years ever since they chose not to sign him long term in 2015, when he wanted to play for his home town team. (Cards have had more success vs Kershaw historically, and even Buehler lately) They felt they were good enough w/o him and the cost was 7 years, $210 Million. The Cardinals won 100 games that year. But it was short sighted by the Cardinals as Scherzer has out performed his contract. (it’s all relative as we are talking big money here) So Max will be jacked up even more than normal if possible, if that happens.
The Cardinals would rather be in a different position, and they didn’t do enough before the season to do that, but, they are once again, in the mix.
The Brewers did a good job with player acquisition and building their team.
Are you Charlie Brown's teacher?
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You said he’s been “incredibly consistent” since his MLB debut. I pointed out that isn’t accurate with evidence not even a week old.
So now you’re just being obtuse, or you’re incapable of following an argument.
Have a lovely night Jockey.
One outing in which the pitcher gives up 2 runs absolutely does not mean a pitcher is inconsistent. You need to learn a bit more about the game of baseball.
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Red Sox open the season getting swept by Baltimore, and now lose two of three to the Birds here at the end.
That’s no bueno.
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Red Sox open the season getting swept by Baltimore, and now lose two of three to the Birds here at the end.
That’s no bueno.
You are White Soxer, right?
Astros clinched tonight.
Homefield vs White Sox still to be decided.
This should be good series. Mutual respect here, I trust.
.. but the sting of watching the choke of our 2005 NL Astros lose to Wsox in WS 0-4 lingers. (Its a bit singular unfair to them, but on the numbers, HOFers Bagwell and Biggio career underperformed in all their playoff games)
..so 2021....its our turn ok?
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You are White Soxer, right?
Astros clinched tonight.
Homefield vs White Sox still to be decided.
This should be good series. Mutual respect here, I trust.
.. but the sting of watching the choke of our 2005 NL Astros lose to Wsox in WS 0-4 lingers. (Its a bit singular unfair to them, but on the numbers, HOFers Bagwell and Biggio career underperformed in all their playoff games)
..so 2021....its our turn ok?
As a White Sox fan, I’m much more nervous than excited to be playing Houston. I think either Houston sweeps, or it goes 5. Houston typically hits Lance Lynn well. The Sox true lineup has only played together in the same lineup like 6 times this season, and they’ll all finally be together for the playoffs. My fingers are crossed, but I expect Houston to be a very tough out.
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Red Sox open the season getting swept by Baltimore, and now lose two of three to the Birds here at the end.
I can just imagine the Red Sox losing on the final day on a bad call or something and then blaming the umps for them not making the playoffs.
When actually they should only blame themselves for losing twice to a Triple-A team.
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so since there is a lot of Cardinals talk here...is Wainwright a Hall of Famer considering the evolution of the starter position (watch the 1986 Mets 30 for 30 and seeing starters regularly go the distance in those days shows how different it is now), or would he need to get to 200 wins? Injuries pretty much took away three seasons and in 2006 he was a set up man (and lights out closer in the playoffs. His bender to freeze Beltran killed the Mets for a few years).
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so since there is a lot of Cardinals talk here...is Wainwright a Hall of Famer considering the evolution of the starter position (watch the 1986 Mets 30 for 30 and seeing starters regularly go the distance in those days shows how different it is now), or would he need to get to 200 wins? Injuries pretty much took away three seasons and in 2006 he was a set up man (and lights out closer in the playoffs. His bender to freeze Beltran killed the Mets for a few years).
Only way he gets into cooperstown is with a ticket
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I find myself rooting for Dusty Baker. He's done such a great job in so many difficult situations, and he has the incredible ability to make a team believe in itself and in each other. Yet, he's had precious little postseason success, and ultimately that's how any manager or coach is judged.
Maybe this year, with most of the attention being focused elsewhere, it will finally be his turn.
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Mariners get a leadoff triple in the 7th, down 1 in an absolute must win game.
Never put the ball in play, walk, K, K, K, inning over.
Brutal.
And yes, I want a 4 way tie for the AL wild card.
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so since there is a lot of Cardinals talk here...is Wainwright a Hall of Famer considering the evolution of the starter position (watch the 1986 Mets 30 for 30 and seeing starters regularly go the distance in those days shows how different it is now), or would he need to get to 200 wins? Injuries pretty much took away three seasons and in 2006 he was a set up man (and lights out closer in the playoffs. His bender to freeze Beltran killed the Mets for a few years).
Re:Wainwright.
You aren’t likely to get many objective responses here. The short answer is Adam has a good chance, yes. Is he going to get in as quickly as the Pujols and Molina? Probably not.
Adam has had a strong beginning, middle, and end to his career which helps his chances. He had a few untimely injuries right in the middle of his 4 top 3 or better CY Young seasons.
2009 (Tim Lincecum) 2010 Cy (Halladay), 2011 missed season with Tommy John Surgery. (Kershaw) 2014 (Kershaw) 2015 missed season with torn achilles. Adam is 1st in Cy Young shares of players to not have won the award.
Obviously he’s been a good post season pitcher as well, in 28 games, WS Titles etc..and he has a lot of intangibles. New Yorkers still talk about his 2006 strikeout of Beltran to clinch the pennant. He’s easily the most liked Cardinal by media, other teams, coaches, etc..and that won’t hurt his case with some.
He’s right at the number (might just miss) having 5 sub 3 E.R.A. seasons with 200 innings. Only Kershaw and Scherzer have done that in his era.
Instead of throwing too many cutters, especially early in the game, Adam figured out in recent years to throw your best pitch early and often. (Curveball) along with a sinker. Defense helps. The past 3 seasons the Cardinals have been among the league’s best defenses, while being among the worst the couple of seasons prior. And his numbers in part reflect that.
Even back in the day Adam wasn’t throwing 4 seam, high spin, top of zone stuff to get K’s. That isn’t how he pitched, and it wasn’t a Dave Duncan philosophy at the time, (pitch to contact).
But he reached 2000 K’s this season. And he has a chance for 200 wins next season. And he has several of those other stat padders such as leading the league in wins, shutouts, innings pitched, complete games, Silver Slugger, All Star appearances etc…
There are 15 pitchers in the MLB HOF with a worse bWAR than Adam.
So, Waino will certainly be in the discussion when he is finished. He re-signed for next season, (not necessarily his last.) We’ll see.
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Wainwright belongs in the Hall of Very Good.
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Wainwright belongs in the Hall of Very Good.
Wainwright makes the Hall of Fame? Then close it down and end the sport.
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Wainwright makes the Hall of Fame? Then close it down and end the sport.
Not my Hall of Fame.
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Not my Hall of Fame.
Not any Hall of Fame
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Not any Hall of Fame
The Cardinals Hall of Fame?
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The Cardinals Hall of Fame?
I’m sure he’ll be in that. They put anyone in, excellence be damned
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Re:Wainwright.
You aren’t likely to get many objective responses here. The short answer is Adam has a good chance, yes. Is he going to get in as quickly as the Pujols and Molina? Probably not.
Adam has had a strong beginning, middle, and end to his career which helps his chances. He had a few untimely injuries right in the middle of his 4 top 3 or better CY Young seasons.
2009 (Tim Lincecum) 2010 Cy (Halladay), 2011 missed season with Tommy John Surgery. (Kershaw) 2014 (Kershaw) 2015 missed season with torn achilles. Adam is 1st in Cy Young shares of players to not have won the award.
Obviously he’s been a good post season pitcher as well, in 28 games, WS Titles etc..and he has a lot of intangibles. New Yorkers still talk about his 2006 strikeout of Beltran to clinch the pennant. He’s easily the most liked Cardinal by media, other teams, coaches, etc..and that won’t hurt his case with some.
He’s right at the number (might just miss) having 5 sub 3 E.R.A. seasons with 200 innings. Only Kershaw and Scherzer have done that in his era.
Instead of throwing too many cutters, especially early in the game, Adam figured out in recent years to throw your best pitch early and often. (Curveball) along with a sinker. Defense helps. The past 3 seasons the Cardinals have been among the league’s best defenses, while being among the worst the couple of seasons prior. And his numbers in part reflect that.
Even back in the day Adam wasn’t throwing 4 seam, high spin, top of zone stuff to get K’s. That isn’t how he pitched, and it wasn’t a Dave Duncan philosophy at the time, (pitch to contact).
But he reached 2000 K’s this season. And he has a chance for 200 wins next season. And he has several of those other stat padders such as leading the league in wins, shutouts, innings pitched, complete games, Silver Slugger, All Star appearances etc…
There are 15 pitchers in the MLB HOF with a worse bWAR than Adam.
So, Waino will certainly be in the discussion when he is finished. He re-signed for next season, (not necessarily his last.) We’ll see.
Good lord.
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I like Wainwright, but Curt Schilling was a better pitcher and he might never get in the HoF.
I’d call Wainwright a long shot, kind of like Mark Buehrle.
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I like Wainwright, but Curt Schilling was a better pitcher and he might never get in the HoF.
I’d call Wainwright a long shot, kind of like Mark Buehrle.
The only reason Schilling isn’t in already is because of politics.
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Probably.
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The only reason Schilling isn’t in already is because of politics.
Absolutely
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The only reason Schilling isn’t in already is because of politics.
Poor guy. I’d keep him out for putting ketchup on his sock
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The only reason Schilling isn’t in already is because of politics.
Or being an insufferable Jack wagon while talking about politics. The guy has made it his life’s mission to be an insufferable buffoon to everyone he can and Womp womp.
“Oh no it’s the consequences of my own actions!”
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The only reason Schilling isn’t in already is because of politics.
He’s an addle minded, old white guy. Just like you. No wonder you think he’s a victim.
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The only reason Schilling isn’t in already is because of politics.
Schilling was on the HoF ballot for several years before he got outwardly political, before he compared Muslims to Nazis, before he bashed trans people, before he “joked” that journalists should be lynched, before he spewed conspiracy theories.
Despite all his idiotic takes, his vote total actually increased after he made his most controversial comments. Indeed, in his most recent year on the ballot, more than 70% of the electorate voted for him.
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Chaos still alive! Wild finish in Seattle!
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Pretty good from Dave Sims:
https://twitter.com/Mariners/status/1444540238135644163?s=19
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Saw what you want about meaningless games but the brewers have absolutely no momentum going into the playoffs.
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Saw what you want about meaningless games but the brewers have absolutely no momentum going into the playoffs.
This was a great weekend for the Brewers. Kershaw out, Buehler used today, Dodgers win 106, yet have to play the Cardinals in a single game just to get into the Playoffs. This was a best case scenario. Only concern is losing one of the three studs at the end of the bullpen.
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This was a great weekend for the Brewers. Kershaw out, Buehler used today, Dodgers win 106, yet have to play the Cardinals in a single game just to get into the Playoffs. This was a best case scenario. Only concern is losing one of the three studs at the end of the bullpen.
Not sure what the Dodgers using Buehler today has to do with benefiting the Brewers.
Scherzer was always starting the wild card. Should the Dodgers win. They don’t play the Brewers. And Buehler is available for game 1 anyways.
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Saw what you want about meaningless games but the brewers have absolutely no momentum going into the playoffs.
"Momentum is only good as tomorrow's starting pitcher."
-- quote often attributed to Earl Weaver
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"Momentum is only good as tomorrow's starting pitcher."
-- quote often attributed to Earl Weaver
Last two teams to enter the postseason going 4-10 over their last 14 games won the World Series.
What does it all mean? Nothing
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Saw what you want about meaningless games but the brewers have absolutely no momentum going into the playoffs.
IIRC the White Sox backed into the playoff in '05 and then ran roughshod to a title.
It all matters for nothing tbh, just scratch 3 out against Atl and try to get 4 against whoever comes outta the West.
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I have it on good authority that if both AL Series go to game 4’s, the Braves/Brewers will be a noon(ish) start next Monday.
I also have it on good authority the city of Chicago does not give a $hit if the Sox play at 3:30(ish) on Sunday at home while the marathon is wrapping up.
MLB has given zero/nada/nothing to the Brewers/Sox regarding their “requests” regarding start times.
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I have it on good authority that if both AL Series go to game 4’s, the Braves/Brewers will be a noon(ish) start next Monday.
I also have it on good authority the city of Chicago does not give a $hit if the Sox play at 3:30(ish) on Sunday at home while the marathon is wrapping up.
MLB has given zero/nada/nothing to the Brewers/Sox regarding their “requests” regarding start times.
I really am struggling to understand why this is taking so long.
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The only reason Schilling isn’t in already is because of politics.
Politics?
Is that what we're calling homophobia and Islamophobia these days?
But it is shocking that a guy who's called for the public execution of journalists has been unable to win over the journalists who vote on Hall of Fame enshrinement. Weird that journalists would question the character of a person that promotes the murder of their colleagues.
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I really am struggling to understand why this is taking so long.
+1 - as a Brewer season ticket holder it would be nice to know what time the game will be on Friday so work, etc, can be arranged. Not sure why they can't announce the game times.
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Politics?
Is that what we're calling homophobia and Islamophobia these days?
But it is shocking that a guy who's called for the public execution of journalists has been unable to win over the journalists who vote on Hall of Fame enshrinement. Weird that journalists would question the character of a person that promotes the murder of their colleagues.
Except he HAS won over the considerably majority of BBWAA journalists who vote for the Hall (at least as it relates to his HoF candidacy), as he received more than 70% of the vote. One might even posit that they're better people than Schilling is.
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Except he HAS won over the considerably majority of BBWAA journalists who vote for the Hall (at least as it relates to his HoF candidacy), as he received more than 70% of the vote. One might even posit that they're better people than Schilling is.
Curt Schilling is a scum bag
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I believe you all are referring to Curt Schilling, video game industry entrepreneurial genius and pioneer
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Back to normal programming. Times are out.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MLB_PR/status/1445145195738279943
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My understanding from talking to someone who definitely knows things, both the Brewers & Sox got what they wanted in the end.
With the marathon on Sunday, the Sox were adamant with MLB that they do not get the mid afternoon game, as logistically it was going to be a mess. The Sox went as far as to ask the city to intervene with MLB (the city flat out said no to the Sox ask). Sox ended up getting the evening game on Sunday.
My same friend/source said the Brewers asked not to be the noon game on Friday. I’m sure there is/was good reasons behind it (obviously easier on fans for a later start on a Friday). League ended up acquiescing, and gave the Brewers the 3:40 start on Friday.
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Not sure what the Dodgers using Buehler today has to do with benefiting the Brewers.
Scherzer was always starting the wild card. Should the Dodgers win. They don’t play the Brewers. And Buehler is available for game 1 anyways.
That’s awesome news that Scherzer was always starting over Buehler. Scherzer has given up 11 runs (10 earned) over his last 2 outings/10.1 innings.
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MLB, ESPN and TBS couldn't have gotten much better matchups for the wild-card games than NY-Bos and LA-StL.
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That’s awesome news that Scherzer was always starting over Buehler. Scherzer has given up 11 runs (10 earned) over his last 2 outings/10.1 innings.
By this logic someone should tell the Yanks not to start their franchise pitcher Cole tonight.
And it’s a good thing the Dodgers didn’t use this logic. Or Buehler would have been moved to the bullpen after his first 4 starts of September.
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Schilling was on the HoF ballot for several years before he got outwardly political, before he compared Muslims to Nazis, before he bashed trans people, before he “joked” that journalists should be lynched, before he spewed conspiracy theories.
Despite all his idiotic takes, his vote total actually increased after he made his most controversial comments. Indeed, in his most recent year on the ballot, more than 70% of the electorate voted for him.
He'd be in by now if he hadn't behaved like a jackass since hi retirement. He was trending to where he would have gone in. It seems strange that his post-career shenanigans are what is going to keep him out, may be a first. At any rate, there is a character clause so I wouldn't begrudge anyone for not voting for him, but he has an impeccable playing case, which is bolstered by the fact that he is probably the greatest postseason starting pitcher since Bob Gibson.
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By this logic someone should tell the Yanks not to start their franchise pitcher Cole tonight.
And it’s a good thing the Dodgers didn’t use this logic. Or Buehler would have been moved to the bullpen after his first 4 starts of September.
Yeah that isn't the same logic at all. The Yankees don't have a second ace behind Cole to throw. And continuing to pitch a guy in the regular season through some bumps vs. having a 1 and done game while the guy is going through his bumps.
But sure. Identical situations.
Like I said, Kershaw out, Buehler not available for a one and done game, Muncy out. This weekend went as well as it possibly could have for the Brewers.
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He'd be in by now if he hadn't behaved like a jackass since hi retirement. He was trending to where he would have gone in. It seems strange that his post-career shenanigans are what is going to keep him out, may be a first. At any rate, there is a character clause so I wouldn't begrudge anyone for not voting for him, but he has an impeccable playing case, which is bolstered by the fact that he is probably the greatest postseason starting pitcher since Bob Gibson.
I respect your opinion on the first point, but the vote totals don't seem to back it up. Schilling made his most incendiary comments in 2016 and, indeed, his vote total went down from 52.3% that year to 45% in 2017. But since then, his vote total has gone up quite strongly -- 51.2% in 2018, 60.9% in 2019, 70.0% in 2020, 71.1% in 2021. (Note: Each year is the Hall class year; ballots had to be submitted by 12/31 of the previous year.) So from 2017 to 2021, his percentage increased significantly, pretty much in line with what is the typical trajectory in this kind of voting pattern. Is it possible that enough of the electorate was influenced by him being a jerk? I suppose, especially at first, but the pattern since 2017 suggests otherwise.
His career numbers are very good but they are not blow-you-away good, which is why he isn't in the Hall. More Mark Buehrle and Zack Greinke than somebody with "impeccable" stats like Pedro, Johnson, etc, etc. But yes, he definitely was outstanding the postseason, and that should count for something ... and I'd posit that it did in the eyes of the BBWAA electorate, the vast majority of whom voted for him.
FWIW, I absolutely would put Schilling in the Hall.
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Yeah that isn't the same logic at all. The Yankees don't have a second ace behind Cole to throw. And continuing to pitch a guy in the regular season through some bumps vs. having a 1 and done game while the guy is going through his bumps.
But sure. Identical situations.
Like I said, Kershaw out, Buehler not available for a one and done game, Muncy out. This weekend went as well as it possibly could have for the Brewers.
And like I said,
Buehler was never going to be available. It was always Scherzer
About the only benefit for the Brewers is if you fear the Dodgers more than the Giants. The Dodgers playing in the WC lessens their chances because Scherzer can’t go til game 3. But even then, better hope they lose cause for the Brewers they will have Scherzer and Buehler both ready.
But as far as Buehler goes nothing changed. And the Dodgers swept the Brewers so nothing in that series changed things either.
You shoulda just said “I’m glad the Giants took care of business” and left it at that.
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And like I said,
Buehler was never going to be available. It was always Scherzer
About the only benefit for the Brewers is if you fear the Dodgers more than the Giants. The Dodgers playing in the WC lessens their chances because Scherzer can’t go til game 3. But even then, better hope they lose cause for the Brewers they will have Scherzer and Buehler both ready.
But as far as Buehler goes nothing changed. And the Dodgers swept the Brewers so nothing in that series changed things either.
You shoulda just said “I’m glad the Giants took care of business” and left it at that.
That may be the case but doesn't necessarily make it the right decision.
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And like I said,
Buehler was never going to be available. It was always Scherzer
About the only benefit for the Brewers is if you fear the Dodgers more than the Giants. The Dodgers playing in the WC lessens their chances because Scherzer can’t go til game 3. But even then, better hope they lose cause for the Brewers they will have Scherzer and Buehler both ready.
But as far as Buehler goes nothing changed. And the Dodgers swept the Brewers so nothing in that series changed things either.
You shoulda just said “I’m glad the Giants took care of business” and left it at that.
If by "nothing in that series changed things either," you meant, "The Dodgers beating the Brewers kept the Dodgers' NL West title chances alive so they had to continue to play their everyday players and pitch their studs, which resulted in them losing Muncy and Kershaw for the year," then you are correct.
People who worry about the Brewers having momentum and think Craig should've pitched his starters longer and/or played his starting position players need not look very far. We witnessed our opponent lose two very, very key players for the year in the last series of the year. All that mattered for the past month for the Brewers was avoiding that. Can they lose to the Braves? Of course. It's a 5 game series in the MLB. That hardly guarantees the best team wins. But I'd much rather be 4-10 in the last 14 games of the year than 10-4 without Avisail and Woody for the Playoffs. And I'd much rather a short handed Dodgers team needs to win a one and done game against the Cardinals, then win 3 of 5 against the Giants just to get to the Brewers than have the Dodgers able to line up their staff like they want while waiting for the Cardinals or Giants to play them. Plus any momentum (good or bad) goes away when you have almost a full week off of baseball games.
Like I said, great weekend for the Brewers.
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I’m sorry, but you can’t get $324 mil, and go only 2+ IP in a Wild Card game.
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I’m sorry, but you can’t get $324 mil, and go only 2+ IP in a Wild Card game.
With inflation, $324 million doesn’t buy what it used to.
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With inflation, $324 million doesn’t buy what it used to.
That’s almost 10x the Squid Game winnings!
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Remember the words of Yogi Berra:
"Baseball is 90% mental and the other half is physical."
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By this logic someone should tell the Yanks not to start their franchise pitcher Cole tonight.
And it’s a good thing the Dodgers didn’t use this logic. Or Buehler would have been moved to the bullpen after his first 4 starts of September.
Maybe the Yankees should've used your logic.
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Remember the words of Yogi Berra:
"Baseball is 90% mental and the other half is physical."
I know I've beaten this horse on here a few times, but the thing that gets me the most is that some players just don’t run and nobody cares or does anything about it or even notices it. In the first inning Stanton rips a ball off the wall, stands at the plate and admires it and doesn’t run, and when it hits the wall he only gets a single when it should have been an easy stand up double, and nobody says a thing. Then in the sixth, with one out and Judge on first, he rips another ball off the wall, and AGAIN stands at home plate and admires it. They gave him a double, but he had stopped and was standing around first and did not head for second until Bogaerts threw home for Judge, who had come around all the way from first. That should have been scored a single with him advancing on the throw home. So when A-Rod kept saying they should have held Judge at third (which was actually right) and the Yankees would have had second and third with one out, he was wrong. They would have had first and third because Stanton did not run again. I do not understand the mentality that allows this to happen, especially in a game where if you lose your season is over. If you pulled him (and anybody else) from the game in April a couple times for not running, that would probably end the problem. Not running is so commonplace that nobody on the broadcast even mentions it when it happens. I am picking on Stanton here, but he is far from the only guy who does this, just like there are lots of guys who run everything out.
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I respect your opinion on the first point, but the vote totals don't seem to back it up. Schilling made his most incendiary comments in 2016 and, indeed, his vote total went down from 52.3% that year to 45% in 2017. But since then, his vote total has gone up quite strongly -- 51.2% in 2018, 60.9% in 2019, 70.0% in 2020, 71.1% in 2021. (Note: Each year is the Hall class year; ballots had to be submitted by 12/31 of the previous year.) So from 2017 to 2021, his percentage increased significantly, pretty much in line with what is the typical trajectory in this kind of voting pattern. Is it possible that enough of the electorate was influenced by him being a jerk? I suppose, especially at first, but the pattern since 2017 suggests otherwise.
His career numbers are very good but they are not blow-you-away good, which is why he isn't in the Hall. More Mark Buehrle and Zack Greinke than somebody with "impeccable" stats like Pedro, Johnson, etc, etc. But yes, he definitely was outstanding the postseason, and that should count for something ... and I'd posit that it did in the eyes of the BBWAA electorate, the vast majority of whom voted for him.
FWIW, I absolutely would put Schilling in the Hall.
I'm not 100% sure, but he's got to be the first person in history to get 70% one year and not get in the next. That is what I meant by trending to be in by now. Always when you get that close one year, you go in the next.
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I'm not 100% sure, but he's got to be the first person in history to get 70% one year and not get in the next. That is what I meant by trending to be in by now. Always when you get that close one year, you go in the next.
Maybe. I dunno. His percentage went up. You’re making a guess; it might be a reasonable guess, but it’s still a guess.
FWIW, in a recent survey of retired players - Schilling’s peers - he didn’t even get 60% of the vote.
And again, I’d put him in the HoF despite his idiocy.
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I know I've beaten this horse on here a few times, but the thing that gets me the most is that some players just don’t run and nobody cares or does anything about it or even notices it. In the first inning Stanton rips a ball off the wall, stands at the plate and admires it and doesn’t run, and when it hits the wall he only gets a single when it should have been an easy stand up double, and nobody says a thing. Then in the sixth, with one out and Judge on first, he rips another ball off the wall, and AGAIN stands at home plate and admires it. They gave him a double, but he had stopped and was standing around first and did not head for second until Bogaerts threw home for Judge, who had come around all the way from first. That should have been scored a single with him advancing on the throw home. So when A-Rod kept saying they should have held Judge at third (which was actually right) and the Yankees would have had second and third with one out, he was wrong. They would have had first and third because Stanton did not run again. I do not understand the mentality that allows this to happen, especially in a game where if you lose your season is over. If you pulled him (and anybody else) from the game in April a couple times for not running, that would probably end the problem. Not running is so commonplace that nobody on the broadcast even mentions it when it happens. I am picking on Stanton here, but he is far from the only guy who does this, just like there are lots of guys who run everything out.
I'm with you 100%. As good a hitter as Stanton is, I don't respect him as a player because of his lack of hustle.
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I just popped over to baseball reference to look at Schilling's stats and noticed that he had 15 complete games in 1998. Talk about a different era.
Since that season, Randy Johnson had 11 in 1999, and James Shields had 11 in 2011, and nobody else has had more than 9. No one has had more than 3 since 2016 (in 2016 Sale had 6 and Cueto had 5).
Irrelevant to the HoF discussion but interesting nonetheless.
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I'm with you 100%. As good a hitter as Stanton is, I don't respect him as a player because of his lack of hustle.
FWIW, I checked the box score and they did only give Stanton a single on the ball in the sixth. I just assumed it was a double because the announcers referred to it as a double for the balance of the game.
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FWIW, I checked the box score and they did only give Stanton a single on the ball in the sixth. I just assumed it was a double because the announcers referred to it as a double for the balance of the game.
You must have been listening to ARod (how does he still have that job).
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Speaking of the HoF, why isn't Reggie Smith a member?
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Speaking of the HoF, why isn't Reggie Smith a member?
Because its not the Hall of Very Good.
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Speaking of the HoF, why isn't Reggie Smith a member?
Like FBM said, he was very good but not HOF caliber. I mean, I don't think he ever pops up in the top OF of the 70s, much less players overall. Look at Jim Rice, better stats across the board, in every category, in less games, and he barely made it in on his last try. Smith also had a pretty mediocre record of playoff performance.
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I know I've beaten this horse on here a few times, but the thing that gets me the most is that some players just don’t run and nobody cares or does anything about it or even notices it. In the first inning Stanton rips a ball off the wall, stands at the plate and admires it and doesn’t run, and when it hits the wall he only gets a single when it should have been an easy stand up double, and nobody says a thing. Then in the sixth, with one out and Judge on first, he rips another ball off the wall, and AGAIN stands at home plate and admires it. They gave him a double, but he had stopped and was standing around first and did not head for second until Bogaerts threw home for Judge, who had come around all the way from first. That should have been scored a single with him advancing on the throw home. So when A-Rod kept saying they should have held Judge at third (which was actually right) and the Yankees would have had second and third with one out, he was wrong. They would have had first and third because Stanton did not run again. I do not understand the mentality that allows this to happen, especially in a game where if you lose your season is over. If you pulled him (and anybody else) from the game in April a couple times for not running, that would probably end the problem. Not running is so commonplace that nobody on the broadcast even mentions it when it happens. I am picking on Stanton here, but he is far from the only guy who does this, just like there are lots of guys who run everything out.
I'm with you 100% here. I know some would consider a bunch of old guys whining about lack of hustle to be passe, but it's so true.
All one has to do is look at the contrast between the way Judge legged out the infield hit right before Stanton hit the shot off the wall. I'd bet your life that if Stanton had hit that grounder, he'd have jogged to first and been out by 30 feet.
But that's life. We can whine about it but it won't change anything. Most managers are afraid to hold their stars to high standards. Though IIRC, the San Diego manager did bench Machado last season, right?
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Like FBM said, he was very good but not HOF caliber. I mean, I don't think he ever pops up in the top OF of the 70s, much less players overall. Look at Jim Rice, better stats across the board, in every category, in less games, and he barely made it in on his last try. Smith also had a pretty mediocre record of playoff performance.
But this is what you get when you put players like Ted Simmons in the Hall of Fame. I mean if you enshrine Simmons, why NOT Reggie Smith.
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Because its not the Hall of Very Good.
I was considering 3 Cub players in the Hall - Santo, Williams, and Dawson. There is a pretty good argument that Reggie was as good, if not better, than all 3.
Of course, those 3 may all belong in the Hall of Very Good. :-\
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Like FBM said, he was very good but not HOF caliber. I mean, I don't think he ever pops up in the top OF of the 70s, much less players overall. Look at Jim Rice, better stats across the board, in every category, in less games, and he barely made it in on his last try. Smith also had a pretty mediocre record of playoff performance.
Reggie was a better player than Rice. Rice is in the Hall ONLY because of the Green Monster. Belongs in the same group as Santo, Williams, and Dawson.
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I was considering 3 Cub players in the Hall - Santo, Williams, and Dawson. There is a pretty good argument that Reggie was as good, if not better, than all 3.
Of course, those 3 may all belong in the Hall of Very Good. :-\
I mean, all but the most meatball Cubs fans would agree with you on Santo.
But Dawson I'll object. Same relative average, but 700 more hits, 125 more HRs, more ASG selections, an MVP, a ROY, 7 more Gold Gloves, and 4 Silver Sluggers. He was a beast during those Expo and early Cub years, I don't even think they are comparable.
Billy Williams is closer but again has raw stats across the board that beat out Reggie Smith.
And odd to create Rice for the HOF ONLY because of Fenway...when a big chunk of his early prime and very good seasons were in the same park.
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I mean, all but the most meatball Cubs fans would agree with you on Santo.
But Dawson I'll object. Same relative average, but 700 more hits, 125 more HRs, more ASG selections, an MVP, a ROY, 7 more Gold Gloves, and 4 Silver Sluggers. He was a beast during those Expo and early Cub years, I don't even think they are comparable.
Billy Williams is closer but again has raw stats across the board that beat out Reggie Smith.
And odd to create Rice for the HOF ONLY because of Fenway...when a big chunk of his early prime and very good seasons were in the same park.
Dawson had almost 3,000 more ABs than Smith, yet their WARs were equal. Reggie also had a much higher OPS+., higher 162WL%, more SB. What Dawson had was a 4 year run in Montreal that was better than any 4 years of the other guys. And don't forget, Dawson only hit more than 27 HRs 3 times in his career and his MVP year was the only time he hit more than 32.
Santo had the highest WAR of any of these guys. better 162WL%, better oWAR, better dWAR, and 2nd highest OPS+ after Smith.
I think all 5 of these guys are borderline HoFers. 4 got in.
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I was considering 3 Cub players in the Hall - Santo, Williams, and Dawson. There is a pretty good argument that Reggie was as good, if not better, than all 3.
Of course, those 3 may all belong in the Hall of Very Good. :-\
Considering modern day stats, all four belong. Incredibly consistent. The Hawk may have more high years, but his knee was in bad shape. All were great defensively.
Santo made it too late, but playing stats+baseball cheerleader (note I didn't say analyst) put him in over the top for me.
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Dawson had almost 3,000 more ABs than Smith, yet their WARs were equal. Reggie also had a much higher OPS+., higher 162WL%, more SB. What Dawson had was a 4 year run in Montreal that was better than any 4 years of the other guys. And don't forget, Dawson only hit more than 27 HRs 3 times in his career and his MVP year was the only time he hit more than 32.
Santo had the highest WAR of any of these guys. better 162WL%, better oWAR, better dWAR, and 2nd highest OPS+ after Smith.
I think all 5 of these guys are borderline HoFers. 4 got in.
HOFs, especially MLB, loves accumulation stats. Longevity matters, especially when in "tiebreaker" type scenarios. Dawson was extremely productive and hitting well into his late 30s. Yea he wasn't slugging 40 HRs a season, but he was hitting 20+ every damn year until he was 37. His career advanced stats all took a shot when he was washed up those last 4 years in Boston and Florida, but he was a HOFer already.
There are plenty of guys not in the HOF that I think have a better argument than Smith, but you have a fondness for him for some reason, so good on you.
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This is my first time ever rooting for the Cardinals.
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I know I've beaten this horse on here a few times, but the thing that gets me the most is that some players just don’t run and nobody cares or does anything about it or even notices it. In the first inning Stanton rips a ball off the wall, stands at the plate and admires it and doesn’t run, and when it hits the wall he only gets a single when it should have been an easy stand up double, and nobody says a thing. Then in the sixth, with one out and Judge on first, he rips another ball off the wall, and AGAIN stands at home plate and admires it. They gave him a double, but he had stopped and was standing around first and did not head for second until Bogaerts threw home for Judge, who had come around all the way from first. That should have been scored a single with him advancing on the throw home. So when A-Rod kept saying they should have held Judge at third (which was actually right) and the Yankees would have had second and third with one out, he was wrong. They would have had first and third because Stanton did not run again. I do not understand the mentality that allows this to happen, especially in a game where if you lose your season is over. If you pulled him (and anybody else) from the game in April a couple times for not running, that would probably end the problem. Not running is so commonplace that nobody on the broadcast even mentions it when it happens. I am picking on Stanton here, but he is far from the only guy who does this, just like there are lots of guys who run everything out.
Warrior
I also watched the game and had the exact same reaction. And on top of everything, nobody in the booth even questioned Arod’s faulty “analysis”. Yes, criticizing the 3rd base coach was legit. The risk/reward (especially given the score) says hold Judge at 3rd. But no mention of Stanton jaking it - ex star players don’t go after current star players when a 3rd base coach is an easy target.
Expecting effort from highly paid (or even paltry paid) players was once a given. Valuing it now gets you ageist insults from mean spirited know nothings. So it goes…
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Warrior
I also watched the game and had the exact same reaction. And on top of everything, nobody in the booth even questioned Arod’s faulty “analysis”. Yes, criticizing the 3rd base coach was legit. The risk/reward (especially given the score) says hold Judge at 3rd. But no mention of Stanton jaking it - ex star players don’t go after current star players when a 3rd base coach is an easy target.
Expecting effort from highly paid (or even paltry paid) players was once a given. Valuing it now gets you ageist insults from mean spirited know nothings. So it goes…
I’m an mean-spirited ageist and I agree that jaking it around the bases is unacceptable.
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I’m an mean-spirited ageist and I agree that jaking it around the bases is unacceptable.
Not true Rico - you have a sense of humor. He doesn’t.
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Oh well … Shildt happens!
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Bye, bye Cardinals - you are Yadi-outta-here!
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Bye, bye Cardinals - you are Yadi-outta-here!
Greatest defensive catcher ever. ;D ;D ;D
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This is my first time ever rooting for the Cardinals.
Welcome to the club of exceptional baseball fans. While our team let you down last night, I promise there are more ups than downs.
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That was a game! On to Yadi's farewell season...hope every team gives him a farewell beanball
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Welcome to the club of exceptional baseball fans. While our team let you down last night, I promise there are more ups than downs.
Some may even say, the Best Fans in Baseball.
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That was a game! On to Yadi's farewell season...hope every team gives him a farewell beanball
The Cardinals and Yadi have too much respect for the game to have a farewell tour.
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Having every umpire spit in Yadi’s face should be included in the farewell tour.
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.Uninspired all around performance by the White Sox
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.Uninspired all around performance by the White Sox
McCullers has been lights out against the Sox, and Lynn has gotten destroyed by Houston consistently. This result was easy to see coming. I wagered accordingly too.
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Dusty Baker did not manage the back end of that game well. I certainly didn’t mind taxed innings for Graveman and Pressly today going into an early afternoon game tomorrow.
I think (hope?) the Sox win tomorrow, the pitching advantage on paper swings in their direction tomorrow. If they don’t win tomorrow, I can’t see the Sox winning three in a row.
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Is TB the favorite from the AL?
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Is TB the favorite from the AL?
They’re the top seed so…yeah.
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They’re the top seed so…yeah.
But the Dodgers are the WS favorites and played in the WC game.
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But the Dodgers are the WS favorites and played in the WC game.
Well, who do you think the favorite is and why?
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Well, who do you think the favorite is and why?
I have no idea. I was just curious. I only watch baseball during the playoffs.
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Is TB the favorite from the AL?
TB is such a unicorn, it makes them really hard to predict in a short series. It reminds me a little of the moneyball-era A's in that they are on the cutting edge of how to game stats in their favor over 162, but their roster will always look underwhelming in a playoff series.
Their three primary starters for the playoffs will be McClanahan, Baz... Patino? Rasmussen? I'm sure that in a 7 game series they end up going with an opener and/or bullpen game at least once, maybe twice. They had 14 pitchers with a save this year. Baz got his first call up on Sept 20. Rasmussen hasn't thrown more than 5 innings or 74 pitches all year. As a team they were between 6th and 10th in MLB in pretty much every category.
I know all of baseball is going a little more this way, but the Rays take it to another level, especially on that budget.
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Anybody else feel a little less excitement than normal for a Brewers playoff series?
For me Covid and maybe Williams breaking his hand has me not as amped as usual. That and my preparing myself for the offense to lay an egg.
It may just also be the grind of work the last few years and a different stage of life.
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Well, who do you think the favorite is and why?
The Dodgers based on their pitching staff. Even without Kershaw.
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Anybody else feel a little less excitement than normal for a Brewers playoff series?
For me Covid and maybe Williams breaking his hand has me not as amped as usual. That and my preparing myself for the offense to lay an egg.
It may just also be the grind of work the last few years and a different stage of life.
Couple of things, first, they didn’t play to game 163 like in 2018 to win the division and guarantee a full playoff series.
2019 came out of nowhere in September without Yelich and after a particularly brutal August.
They basically clinched the division by Labor Day this year anddespite an otherworldly performance by St. Louis, could have coasted even longer through the month. Different and less pressure-packed month.
The offense is definitely a concern, too. I think offense was rarely a concern on previous Brewer playoff teams dating all the way back to 1981. Many people say they like great pitching but it’s probably not that true, so the games feel less exciting when you’re not waiting for an offensive explosion.
I’m pumped and can’t wait to get to the Keg
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Anybody else feel a little less excitement than normal for a Brewers playoff series?
For me Covid and maybe Williams breaking his hand has me not as amped as usual. That and my preparing myself for the offense to lay an egg.
It may just also be the grind of work the last few years and a different stage of life.
I think the fact that its the fourth year in a row of the playoffs also has tempered some enthusiasm. I might be wrong, but I thought I heard this morning that today's game wasn't yet sold out.
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I think the fact that its the fourth year in a row of the playoffs also has tempered some enthusiasm. I might be wrong, but I thought I heard this morning that today's game wasn't yet sold out.
That really surprises me. I popped onto Brewers.com and it looks like there are a handful of sections with seats available at least if you select single seats. The attendance thing might be workday start + covid too.
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I’m pumped and can’t wait to get to the Keg
Me too...heading there in a couple hours. This Brewers team is good and finally has some playoff experience.
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4 games…whoever you are rooting for…LFG!
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I don't know that end of the season momentum matters in terms of playoff success, but I definitely think it had an impact on fan's excitement. Our heads know that the last 2-3 weeks didn't matter but our hearts wanted some more Ws
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MLB is so frustrating sometimes. I live in Chicago and cannot watch the Sox game because it’s only in MLB TV and not on a single network.
Absolutely ridiculous.
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MLB is so frustrating sometimes. I live in Chicago and cannot watch the Sox game because it’s only in MLB TV and not on a single network.
Absolutely ridiculous.
MLB Network, no?
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MASSIVE play. They had to get to Burnes here. Hopefully he settles in now.
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RIP Sox 2021 season.
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Among many problems, TLR pissing away this game with baffling decisions is going to be high up there.
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Among many problems, TLR pissing away this game with baffling decisions is going to be high up there.
Hopefully, this series will hopefully be the end of this stupid experiment with TLR as manager. But probably not.
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R-O-W-D-Y!!
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R-O-W-D-Y!!
ROWDY!!!!
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Front Row Amy appears to be in fine form today.
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Front Row Amy appears to be in fine form today.
Used to call her Sweet Connie, before I read who she is.
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Among many problems, TLR pissing away this game with baffling decisions is going to be high up there.
Maybe he's going to wait until it gets to 3-0 to start swinging
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Among many problems, TLR pissing away this game with baffling decisions is going to be high up there.
Didn’t see the game, Dish. What did he do?
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Among many problems, TLR pissing away this game with baffling decisions is going to be high up there.
+1 Sox won in spite of him, not because of him.
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Didn’t see the game, Dish. What did he do?
Sox are up 4-2 in the 5th, he leaves a struggling Giolito in, with no one warming up. Walks Altuve, Brantley hits a bomb to the warning track for an out, then Giolito walks Bregman. He then brings in Crochet in a terrible spot (not to mention Crochet threw 26 pitches yesterday). Crochet walks Alvarez, then game tying single to Gurriel.
He never uses Michael Kopech the entire game, makes a brutal decision to pinch hit Hernandez for Engel, which rears its ugly head in the outfield later when Garcia gets caught in a spin for a Correa double. He also brings Kimbrel who gets hammered by Tucker for a two run bomb.
The White Sox have all kinds of trouble outside TLR (no extra basehits, tons of leadoff walks to Houston, 1-11 RISP), it was everything wrong with the team, magnified by ten today.
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Thanks, Dish ... and sorry for your pain.
Regardless of sport, it sucks as a fan when it feels like the coach or manager of your team is hurting, rather than enhancing, your team's chances of winning.
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Steve Greenberg of the Chicago Sun Times did a recent piece on
Tony! Toni! Toné!. It even has a guest appearance from Uncle Walt and F.O.T.’s.
https://twitter.com/slgreenberg/status/1444301504853196806?s=21
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Does anybody have any ideas as to how I could get the Brewers game streamed today while overseas? Looks like just trying to stream TBS or Bally Sports Wisconsin won't work.
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Does anybody have any ideas as to how I could get the Brewers game streamed today while overseas? Looks like just trying to stream TBS or Bally Sports Wisconsin won't work.
Gunna have to VPN. It's pretty easy with Nord and cheap.
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Gunna have to VPN. It's pretty easy with Nord and cheap.
So I should’ve brought the work computer instead of the personal computer? Shoot.
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Does anybody have any ideas as to how I could get the Brewers game streamed today while overseas? Looks like just trying to stream TBS or Bally Sports Wisconsin won't work.
A real fan would fly back for the game. ;D
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Can you maybe get a free live TV trial on Hulu or Yrube?
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So I should’ve brought the work computer instead of the personal computer? Shoot.
Free, free
https://nordvpn.com/offer/risk-free-vpn/?vpn=brand&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-4SLBhCVARIsACrhWLWWJQuN5GI99eVA8u8zsjkQ1TXhqiYqE-Q1DP5sYWnEDYGdg08botgaAthiEALw_wcB
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Gunna have to VPN. It's pretty easy with Nord and cheap.
Yep, I think when you're overseas, a lot of the streaming options crap out. I remember trying to stream on watchespn or fsgo or something overseas, and even though i had all the requisite subscriptions, it wouldn't let me stream outside the country. So I think tricking the apps/subscriptions into thinking you're somewhere else is your only option.
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So I should’ve brought the work computer instead of the personal computer? Shoot.
There are plenty of good VPNs with trial free subscriptions or the like
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Not missing much. Brewers offense MIA again.
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Does anybody have any ideas as to how I could get the Brewers game streamed today while overseas? Looks like just trying to stream TBS or Bally Sports Wisconsin won't work.
Don't bother. Suckin' major ass, hey?
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Those last three innings were maddening. Luke Maile?
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When you score 2 runs in 2 games, you’re fortunate to be 1-1 in the series.
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Don't bother. Suckin' major ass, hey?
As usual, you're always overjoyed when MU, Brewers, Packers, Bucks lose. Gotta be the worst fan on Scoop.
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When you score 2 runs in 2 games, you’re fortunate to be 1-1 in the series.
Anderson is a very good young pitcher (I would even say a future Cy Young'er if he stays healthy), but you can't throw any better than Morton and Fried the 1st two games.
I'm very happy where the Brewers are at after facing those 2 guys.
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Anderson is a very good young pitcher (I would even say a future Cy Young'er if he stays healthy), but you can't throw any better than Morton and Fried the 1st two games.
I'm very happy where the Brewers are at after facing those 2 guys.
The problem wasn’t those two guys. The problem was they had the tying run get to the plate in three straight innings against their bullpen and they went 0-6 and hit into a double play.
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How long is Brian Anderson under contract with the brewers/ballys?
Man, he calls a good game.
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How long is Brian Anderson under contract with the brewers/ballys?
Man, he calls a good game.
I believe he just re-upped and basically said he’s planning to be here for his career.
He is fantastic.
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I'm very happy where the Brewers are at after facing those 2 guys.
Congrats, then!
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Thanks, Dish ... and sorry for your pain.
Regardless of sport, it sucks as a fan when it feels like the coach or manager of your team is hurting, rather than enhancing, your team's chances of winning.
I feel that we all experienced that in the past 7 years.
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I feel that we all experienced that in the past 7 years.
What...Counsell?
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What...Counsell?
Thinking Wojo.
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Thinking Wojo.
Ahhhhh. Makes more sense! 😉😉😉
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Kike Hernandez is playing decent
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Great game goin’ on in Chicago.
I don’t get the love affair with Kopech, though. Behind almost every hitter.
BTW, Wainwright is really good as a commentator.
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BTW, Wainwright is really good as a commentator.
Give Yadi all the credit for that. Obviously.
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Offense once again wasting a great pitching performance. Absolutely need to score 1 in a 2&3rd no out situation. Urias managed to make 3 very bad decisions on the base path.
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Pulling the starter early fails yet again.
Braves we’re licking their chops.
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Offense once again wasting a great pitching performance. Absolutely need to score 1 in a 2&3rd no out situation. Urias managed to make 3 very bad decisions on the base path.
Not only wastes a great pitching performance but cuts it short. I'm only following on gamecast, but if Cain sacrifices Urias in, I'm guessing Counsell doesn't pitch hit Vogelbach (fml) for Peralta just because there's a man on second. Peralta was only at 57 pitches.
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Offense once again wasting a great pitching performance. Absolutely need to score 1 in a 2&3rd no out situation. Urias managed to make 3 very bad decisions on the base path.
Cain blew up the inning. Then Counsell made a rare bad decision. I was screaming at the TV "don't do it" to no avail. Pitch count was in the 50s.
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At dis rate dale neva get ta Game 5, aina?
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It was a panic move by a manager who typically isn't prone to making them. And it backfired spectacularly.
Ah well, it was a fun season. Shame it had to sputter out like this.
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Just glad they all stayed healthy and we were able to make the dodges pitch Buehler on game 162!
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Ah, da bitch of a small market teem. Gonna hafta trade sum pitchin' ta get sume hittin', hey?
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Just glad they all stayed healthy and we were able to make the dodges pitch Buehler on game 162!
Ideal outcome.
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It’s become pretty clear that Yelich was a sign stealer.
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Another Goose Egg for Milwaukee? What's the prob? You're not beating good teams with 2 runs in 3 games.
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Either he was stealing signs, or "training" with Braunie.
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It’s become pretty clear that Yelich was a sign stealer.
Doesn't really explain his Miami days when he was a whole lot better than what we're seeing now.
Sometimes great hitters lose it. Lindor, Bellinger come to mind.
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The Packers have prepared me for this.
All in all, this is what scared me about this team. Too many stretches of not being able to put runs on the board. Today they had some hard hit balls that Atlanta made some great plays on.
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Bucks: World champs
Packers: NFC championship game last year. Lock to win the north as long as ARod is healthy.
Brewers: a great year. Not hitting well right now.
Fans in Wisconsin: they all suck.
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It was a panic move by a manager who typically isn't prone to making them. And it backfired spectacularly.
Ah well, it was a fun season. Shame it had to sputter out like this.
When you only score in one of 26 innings, you have to do what you can to get runs in. So I am not sure it was a panic move, but more of a roll of the dice that didn't work out.
Another Goose Egg for Milwaukee? What's the prob? You're not beating good teams with 2 runs in 3 games.
This team struggled offensively at times all season. One of the reasons I wasn't terribly excited about the playoffs is because I thought it would end in a frustrating, unable to generate offense kind of manner.
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Bucks: World champs
Packers: NFC championship game last year. Lock to win the north as long as ARod is healthy.
Brewers: a great year. Not hitting well right now.
Fans in Wisconsin: they all suck.
Out of the 3 fan bases, the Brewers fan base is the most miserable.
99% of Bucks fans wanted Budenholzer fired after the 1st games of the Nets series and Middleton traded (raises hand).
Packers fans are basically the St. Louis Cardinals fans of the NFL. They don’t think so but they are.
All that said, Brewers fans feel like the most miserable and decades of being the Bengals of MLB will do that.
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Anderson is a very good young pitcher (I would even say a future Cy Young'er if he stays healthy), but you can't throw any better than Morton and Fried the 1st two games.
I'm very happy where the Brewers are at after facing those 2 guys.
Now 2 runs in 3 games! Still very happy, Jock? You got the Braves right where you want 'em!
On a related note ...
I hope like hell that Atlanta's G3 starter's nickname is Aqualung. Or at least Jethro.
But I mostly hope he doesn't spend his off days sitting on a park bench, eyeing little girls with bad intent.
He had bad enough intent for Brew Crew batters ... even if he didn't have snot running down his nose.
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All that said, Brewers fans feel like the most miserable and decades of being the Bengals of MLB will do that.
You're not wrong.
When they lose this series I'll be disappointed, but still look back on this season fondly. A lot of really fun moments/comebacks.
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Brewers should just fly home tonight. No point in playing, season’s over.
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Now 2 runs in 3 games! Still very happy, Jock? You got the Braves right where you want 'em!
On a related note ...
I hope like hell that Atlanta's G3 starter's nickname is Aqualung. Or at least Jethro.
But I mostly hope he doesn't spend his off days sitting on a park bench, eyeing little girls with bad intent.
He had bad enough intent for Brew Crew batters ... even if he didn't have snot running down his nose.
I deserved that for my Panthers comment >:(
But it ain’t over - just find a way to win tomorrow. I’d take my chances with Corbin in game 5.
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Bucks: World champs
Packers: NFC championship game last year. Lock to win the north as long as ARod is healthy.
Brewers: a great year. Not hitting well right now.
Fans in Wisconsin: they all suck.
Yep. We are really awful fans. I rarely see one of us in the wild and think highly of them. It's a real bummer.
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I deserved that for my Panthers comment >:(
But it ain’t over - just find a way to win tomorrow. I’d take my chances with Corbin in game 5.
Disagree, I say throw the Ace on 4 days rest. Season's on the line, are you really gonna go with a bullpen game?
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Disagree, I say throw the Ace on 4 days rest. Season's on the line, are you really gonna go with a bullpen game?
Game 1 was Friday.
Math says
Rest Saturday(1), Sunday(2), Monday(3).
3 days rest for Burnes if he goes tomorrow
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Brewers should just fly home tonight. No point in playing, season’s over.
Seriously, right? I'm not in denial that things are trending in the wrong direction, but its not like the Braves hitters have been lighting the world on fire either. Lauer has been good lately, and the pitching situations tomorrow might get weird. These streaks have a way of coming and going in a flash, so who knows.
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Game 1 was Friday.
Math says
Rest Saturday(1), Sunday(2), Monday(3).
3 days rest for Burnes if he goes tomorrow
Math is for suckers. Tell him it's 4 days and he'll be fine.
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Game 1 was Friday.
Math says
Rest Saturday(1), Sunday(2), Monday(3).
3 days rest for Burnes if he goes tomorrow
And correct me if I'm wrong, but the Brewers have been essentially throwing a 6 man rotation all year, so used to even more rest than normal 5 man rotations
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Disagree, I say throw the Ace on 4 days rest. Season's on the line, are you really gonna go with a bullpen game?
Holding Corbin back in case there's a game 5 is like slotting Renaldo in the fifth spot for PK's. Sure, he could be the finisher, but if you don't get to him what does it matter?
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Kevin Cash isn’t the guy to bring your team a title
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Holding Corbin back in case there's a game 5 is like slotting Renaldo in the fifth spot for PK's. Sure, he could be the finisher, but if you don't get to him what does it matter?
No it is not anything like that.
You want a pitcher who has thrown way more innings than he ever has and who normally pitches on 5-6 days of rest to start on 3 days rest. That is beyond stupid - Renaldo isn't risking arm or leg issues based on where he is in a penalty kick lineup.
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Kevin Cash isn’t the guy to bring your team a title
Except Cash is not the guy who refuses to pay for starting pitchers.
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Small market challenges.
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Except Cash is not the guy who refuses to pay for starting pitchers.
No he’s not.
But he sure as hell is the guy who pulls them at awful times.
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No he’s not.
But he sure as hell is the guy who pulls them at awful times.
Not necessarily. Managers, in general, have less power than maybe anytime in history. Managing now is a collaboration between the manager, the GM, and the analytics department. I don’t like it, but it is what it is.
When Cash pulled Snell last year when he was dominating, it was a decision that was made before the game even started. They were not going to let him face the lineup a 3rd time. And that came from the top. It didn’t take a genius to see it was the wrong move.
I certainly agree with you that TB cannot win it all. I just disagree as to who is responsible.
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The TB players may have read this thread? :)
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Sox bullpen finally showing their weaknesses
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Red Sox fans on social media were basically planning for the next series already. What an incredible start to the 8th
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Verdugo looked safe to me.
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Now that was Cash’s fault. You have to walk Kiki to set up a double play.
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Not sure what Cash was thinking. He seems like a pretty weak manager when the heat is on.
As for the Brewers ... many teams have come back from 2-1 in a best-of-5. Including the Brewers.
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Now that was Cash’s fault. You have to walk Kiki to set up a double play.
Probably, but the horse was out of the barn by then. The Sox are playing with house money right now. Once they knocked out the Yankees, everything else is gravy. They are pretty even with the White Sox, Brewers and Braves, but a click below Houston, LA and SF of what's left. They're a weird bunch to get this far. They are a bad defensive team, not a great rotation and a shaky bullpen. Cora knows what he's doing once the playoffs start, though.
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Not sure what Cash was thinking. He seems like a pretty weak manager when the heat is on.
As for the Brewers ... many teams have come back from 2-1 in a best-of-5. Including the Brewers.
Hell, in the 1982 ALCS they came down from 0-2!
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Hell, in the 1982 ALCS they came down from 0-2!
Yessir, I was there to witness it, as were probably a few other Scoopers of that vintage.
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Looks like Lauer gets the start. I have to assume it came down to believing Lauer on full rest is better than Burnes on short rest. Hopefully it’s not just to save him for Game 5.
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You have to start Lauer. Lauer has been good, Burnes has already pitched far and away the most innings of his career, and he usually doesn’t start on 4 days rest, let alone 3. Burnes isn’t being saved for game 5. If they were doing that, you just start Burnes and have Woody and Peralta available for game 5 anyways.
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You have to start Lauer. Lauer has been good, Burnes has already pitched far and away the most innings of his career, and he usually doesn’t start on 4 days rest, let alone 3. Burnes isn’t being saved for game 5. If they were doing that, you just start Burnes and have Woody and Peralta available for game 5 anyways.
That’s basically what I said earlier. If the Brewers win today, Burnes has the possibility of 5 more starts which might put him at about 50% more innings than he has ever thrown.
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Looks like Lauer gets the start. I have to assume it came down to believing Lauer on full rest is better than Burnes on short rest. Hopefully it’s not just to save him for Game 5.
I know everyone says it is just to get to game 5, but you have to win both games. The question should be if your chance of winning 2 games is better with Lauer in Game 4 and Burnes in game 5 or Burnes in game 4 and everybody in game 5. In the end, if you lose in 4 games or 5 doesn't mean much. Winning or losing the series is what matters.
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I know everyone says it is just to get to game 5, but you have to win both games. The question should be if your chance of winning 2 games is better with Lauer in Game 4 and Burnes in game 5 or Burnes in game 4 and everybody in game 5. In the end, if you lose in 4 games or 5 doesn't mean much. Winning or losing the series is what matters.
Lauer has been pretty dang good the second half of the season and I have no problem with him starting this game. Ultimately, scoring is the issue today
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Scoring is why you play the game. ;)
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Scoring is why you play the game. ;)
Unless you’re the Wisconsin Badgers basketball team
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La Russa blows
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La Russa blows
I believe he typically refuses to.
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Braves right fielder Jorge Soler out due to positive COVID test.
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Kyle Tucker should be talked about a lot more.
And probably shouldn’t be hitting 7th in any lineup.
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I can’t believe Dusty took McCullers out.
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At least TLR will have Lynn AND Giolito for game 5.
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Ugh……
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Sox got fat on trash teams and home. This is hardly surprising
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I can’t believe Dusty took McCullers out.
I agree
I had not followed Dusty over his prior jobs, but I was aware of his blowing some key game/series leads in the playoffs. Whereas here his players and hitting are accustomed and businesslike, bailing him out in this game.
It appears with the Cullers move , and I think the Luis Garcia pull yesterday for Jimi ... both hinted at Dusty getting tighter later in the series, at risk of overmanaging right into a screwed up overextended staff.
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I know I’m a Homer, but thought it’s in the realm that bounced off the toe of his glove and not the ground.
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At least TLR will have Lynn AND Giolito for game 5.
I can't blame TLR for any of these games. The starting pitching flat out stunk. Way too many walks. Didn't make them earn it. None of the could make it 5, most couldn't make it 4. The hitting underwhelmed, the pen guys were mostly bad. Manager is pretty far down the list in terms of blame for me.
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Sox got fat on trash teams and home. This is hardly surprising
Well, at least they won a playoff game this series. Thats 1 more than the Twinkies have won in what, 30 years?
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I know I’m a Homer, but thought it’s in the realm that bounced off the toe of his glove and not the ground.
Physics ! ! it hit the front part and bounced IN the glove ! ! ! If it hit the dirt it would've bounced UP or away from the glove ! ! ! IMHO ! ! !
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Well, at least they won a playoff game this series. Thats 1 more than the Twinkies have won in what, 30 years?
Never said the Twins are good.
They also beat on the same trashy division. They do usually beat above .500 teams not called the Yanks in the regular season to sucker folks.
On the flip side, there was nothing to suggest the White Sox would win this.
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Kyle Tucker should be talked about a lot more.
And probably shouldn’t be hitting 7th in any lineup.
Tucker was moved to 7th after a horrible first 30 games
After his first 33 games (April 1 - May 8), the 24-year-old was .175/.242/.342 with 16 RBIs, 25 strikeouts, and a .584 OPS, but since then he has led the majors in hitting average and OPS.
Everyone but Correa will be back next year so our hitting will continue to be good
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Kyle Tucker should be talked about a lot more.
And probably shouldn’t be hitting 7th in any lineup.
Tucker’s on the verge of being a star. Next year Brantley should move down or out and Tucker/Bregman should be 2/3 or 3/2.
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Tucker was moved to 7th after a horrible first 30 games
After his first 33 games (April 1 - May 8), the 24-year-old was .175/.242/.342 with 16 RBIs, 25 strikeouts, and a .584 OPS, but since then he has led the majors in hitting average and OPS.
Everyone but Correa will be back next year so our hitting will continue to be good
Yeah he’s really damn good.
OPS+ of 147 for the year even with the slow start.
Only 90Ks in 500 ABs too. Which is really solid this day in age.
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On the flip side, there was nothing to suggest the White Sox would win this.
It pains me but I have to agree.
Sox weren’t the same team in the second half. Two best starters dinged up, Giolito took a step backwards and Keuchel was awful. Cease was a bright spot but struggled against teams who showed plate discipline - like Houston.
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It pains me but I have to agree.
Sox weren’t the same team in the second half. Two best starters dinged up, Giolito took a step backwards and Keuchel was awful. Cease was a bright spot but struggled against teams who showed plate discipline - like Houston.
Still got a lot of promise tho.
Need full seasons of Robert and Jimenez to really get clicking. Hope Moncada finds himself a bit too.
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Hader’s legacy is rapidly approaching regular season stud who falters repeatedly in the playoffs
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Hader. The most non lethal secret weapon in sports
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Ouch. That bunt pop out cannot happen.
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Oooooooooooof
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Sorry Brewers fans. What was that? Brutal AB for Yelich.
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It pains me but I have to agree.
Sox weren’t the same team in the second half. Two best starters dinged up, Giolito took a step backwards and Keuchel was awful. Cease was a bright spot but struggled against teams who showed plate discipline - like Houston.
Giolito was considerably better in the 2nd half...
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Fittingly feeble last AB by Yelich
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He's totally lost. Pedal his heine, hey?
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I was rooting for the Brewers. Seems like they blew a huge opportunity. But that was bizarre from a former MVP.
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Giolito was considerably better in the 2nd half...
Yeah, but he took a big step back overall and his better second half wasn’t as good as last year.
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Fittingly feeble last AB by Yelich
Game came down to the 2 stars. Freeman pounded the ball. As you said, Yelich looked feeble.
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Well, at least they won a playoff game this series. Thats 1 more than the Twinkies have won in what, 30 years?
In the five postseasons since the Cubs won the World Series, the MLB Central division teams are a combined 19-49 in postseason games, including 4-21 the last two years and 7-31 the last three.
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Interesting that the 3 teams who clinched the earliest are the early teams out.
Once you take the foot off the pedal in baseball. I think more than other sports, you are in serious trouble.
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Excuse my ignorance but did Houston receive any penalty for cheating?
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Not basing this on tonight, but Hader is a piece that can be moved to get better on offense. There’s no one on the staff that can replace him but I feel good about the front office finding arms to fill that role.
One of the big 3 starters can get moved, too. I think they can start the year with Houser/Lauer/Ashby filling the final 3 spots and try getting an Anderson type as a swing man 6th starter.
The injuries to Williams and Suter were crushing, especially Suter who would have replaced Freddie yesterday.
I admit, this one hurts a lot more than 2018 because I think they’re better than how they played
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Fittingly feeble last AB by Yelich
Pathetic. It’s only the season hanging in the balance and can’t get the bat off his shoulder.
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Game came down to the 2 stars. Freeman pounded the ball. As you said, Yelich looked feeble.
Yelich hasn’t been a star in two years
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Not basing this on tonight, but Hader is a piece that can be moved to get better on offense. There’s no one on the staff that can replace him but I feel good about the front office finding arms to fill that role.
One of the big 3 starters can get moved, too. I think they can start the year with Houser/Lauer/Ashby filling the final 3 spots and try getting an Anderson type as a swing man 6th starter.
The injuries to Williams and Suter were crushing, especially Suter who would have replaced Freddie yesterday.
I admit, this one hurts a lot more than 2018 because I think they’re better than how they played
You better get huge value if you trade one of the big three. Burnes and Woodruff have three more years prior to free agency and Peralta has five with club options the last two.
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All the criticism of the Sox here that I read is warranted.
Baseball is such a hard sport to cheer through the playoffs on. You devout so much time to cheering for a team, it’s such a long season that can be deceiving, and then it ends with a huge thud.
Both the Sox & Brewers were built to win their respective divisions, but neither had the swag to get to the ultimate finish line. Houston is just flat out really good, they don’t just hit well, their almost always set up properly defensively, they aren’t fast, but will pounce on an extra base. Sox don’t do any of that stuff, none, and in October, it will always reveal itself.
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No it is not anything like that.
You want a pitcher who has thrown way more innings than he ever has and who normally pitches on 5-6 days of rest to start on 3 days rest. That is beyond stupid - Renaldo isn't risking arm or leg issues based on where he is in a penalty kick lineup.
Well, at least Corbin will be available for opening day.
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You better get huge value if you trade one of the big three. Burnes and Woodruff have three more years prior to free agency and Peralta has five with club options the last two.
That’s why you dangle them, imo. They’re valuable resources and selling high when it comes to pitchers isn’t that crazy.
Adames, Wong and Urias are back in the infield next year and Narvaez is back behind the plate. Garcia will certainly test the market. JBJ will be back because of his contract as will Yelich and Cain.
1B and a probable OF spot definitely need upgrades. The system is loaded with OFs, whether any are everyday players, well that’s up for debate.
My dream scenario is Freeman and the Braves can’t work out a deal but I can’t see that happening. They’ll be tempted to run it back and with that staff, that’s fine but they need more sizzle on offense. It’ll be a fascinating off-season
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Anything other than Braves getting smoked in NLCS will surprise me. They’re a nice team, nothing special at all. Dodgers or Giants are both so much better
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Yeah, but he took a big step back overall and his better second half wasn’t as good as last year.
If you say so? But his ERA, WHIP, and K/bb were all better the 2nd half of this year than they were last year. He threw more innings in the 2nd half this year 74.2 compared to 72.1(just noting to show the statistical comparison is pretty fair), and had fewer walks, (19 this year, 28 last year). You could make the argument he was basically the same, I don't see how he was worse in any way.
The pitching in the playoffs was terrible. They all crapped down their legs.
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Anything other than Braves getting smoked in NLCS will surprise me. They’re a nice team, nothing special at all. Dodgers or Giants are both so much better
Acuna would make a huge difference. Its a shame they don't have him. That'd be great for baseball.
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Excuse my ignorance but did Houston receive any penalty for cheating?
A slight fine and lost a couple draft picks if I remember correctly. Really nothing significant.
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I agree
I had not followed Dusty over his prior jobs, but I was aware of his blowing some key game/series leads in the playoffs. Whereas here his players and hitting are accustomed and businesslike, bailing him out in this game.
It appears with the Cullers move , and I think the Luis Garcia pull yesterday for Jimi ... both hinted at Dusty getting tighter later in the series, at risk of overmanaging right into a screwed up overextended staff.
In previous stops, especially SF and Chicago, Dusty actually was usually criticized for leaving his starters in too long.
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Fittingly feeble last AB by Yelich
The last view they showed of him on the telecast, he was walking away from home plate and clearly saying an f-bomb.
That about covers it.
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A slight fine and lost a couple draft picks if I remember correctly. Really nothing significant.
That's pathetic. Terrible message to our youth.
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Only about 3000 more days on Yelich's contract!
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That's pathetic. Terrible message to our youth.
No to mention the rest of the league.
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I really wanted a White Sox-Brewers World Series, so I am bummed they were both eliminated the same day.
I was at the Sox game today. At times it seemed like the crowd had more energy than the team. I wondered yesterday if having the rainout after their win Sunday would hurt their momentum.
Pitchers kept getting two strikes and then serving the ball up, it seemed.
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Only about 3000 more days on Yelich's contract!
I kept trying to come up with a Brewers/Sox trade that involved Eloy/Peralta/Yelich/Keuchel, but forgot how bad that Yelich contract is, and has deferrals through 2042. That Yelich contract is very no bueno.
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I kept trying to come up with a Brewers/Sox trade that involved Eloy/Peralta/Yelich/Keuchel, but forgot how bad that Yelich contract is, and has deferrals through 2042. That Yelich contract is very no bueno.
Hah, as a Cubs fan, makes the Heyward contract seem reasonable. There are very few cases where contracts longer than 4 years make any sense for a baseball team.
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He's totally lost. Pedal his heine, hey?
He’s untrade-able. Enjoy that contract for the next 7 years.
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That's pathetic. Terrible message to our youth.
Well it's not the ncaa. They aren't going to give a team the death penalty. Because that would be stupid for the league, stupid for baseball, and stupid for the Astros.
"The sanctions against the Astros were the most severe that MLB has ever issued against a member club,[3] and are among the most severe sanctions for in-game misconduct in baseball history"
They fined the maximum allowable, suspended 2 Astros and 1 red sox coach. Couldn't touch the players. What else should they do?
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There was no other way to settle this series than a game 5
The two clear best teams should be playing 7. But game 5 will be great.
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That's pathetic. Terrible message to our youth.
Good thing our youth don't watch baseball.
Well it's not the ncaa. They aren't going to give a team the death penalty. Because that would be stupid for the league, stupid for baseball, and stupid for the Astros.
"The sanctions against the Astros were the most severe that MLB has ever issued against a member club,[3] and are among the most severe sanctions for in-game misconduct in baseball history"
They fined the maximum allowable, suspended 2 Astros and 1 red sox coach. Couldn't touch the players. What else should they do?
Yep.
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Well it's not the ncaa. They aren't going to give a team the death penalty. Because that would be stupid for the league, stupid for baseball, and stupid for the Astros.
"The sanctions against the Astros were the most severe that MLB has ever issued against a member club,[3] and are among the most severe sanctions for in-game misconduct in baseball history"
They fined the maximum allowable, suspended 2 Astros and 1 red sox coach. Couldn't touch the players. What else should they do?
Couldn't they be given a much harsher penalty? LIke postseason bans or two year suspensions for players? I dunno. Seems ridiculous you can get away with with blatant cheating.
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No professional league bans teams from postseason play.
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No professional league bans teams from postseason play.
And you can't punish players outside the rules agreed upon in the CBA.
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I really wanted a White Sox-Brewers World Series, so I am bummed they were both eliminated the same day.
Likewise. Nobody left to root for.
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No different than most years.
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Likewise. Nobody left to root for.
Yeah, it’s going to be a gross final 4. I could probably root for SF but won’t like it
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I lost respect for Altuve. He was one of my favorite players.
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If you say so? But his ERA, WHIP, and K/bb were all better the 2nd half of this year than they were last year. He threw more innings in the 2nd half this year 74.2 compared to 72.1(just noting to show the statistical comparison is pretty fair), and had fewer walks, (19 this year, 28 last year). You could make the argument he was basically the same, I don't see how he was worse in any way.
The pitching in the playoffs was terrible. They all crapped down their legs.
Buck
You’re right, I should have said last full year (2019). Even with that said, I was amazed that his 2021 WAR was as good (4.3) as it was. Down from 5.8 in 2019 but still solid. He just didn’t seem that good to my (bad, I guess) “eye test”. I thought he was on the verge of stardom after 2019. This year felt like a step back.
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I can probably count the number of games I will even partially watch from here on out on one hand.
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Because of your height sensitivity, Muggsy? Or because of him having the throwing yips last year?
Stealing signs have been part of baseball forever. Same thing in football, which is why you have three guys signaling in plays. And radio receivers. Remember the Patriots getting fined a few years ago?
Houston went high tech. Eventually, they got busted. They were punished within the established rules. And they were held in contempt by players and fans alike. There isn't a crap-ton else that can be done.
And honestly, the best story line remaining is Houston coming back from their collective sins.
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Can't remember ...
Was there this much angst about Yelich's contract when he signed it?
Yes, it could end up being a Mauer-ish type situation, which hurts teams in markets like Minneapolis and Milwaukee. But those teams really have little choice. They almost have to pay big bucks to the home-grown superstar or it sends a really bad message.
Or they could go the Rays' way: Let guys leave when they become great and have such an incredible farm system that it doesn't matter.
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And you can't punish players outside the rules agreed upon in the CBA.
It was less about the CBA than it was Manfred giving the players immunity. The MLBPA specifically denied that they stood in the way of player discipline.
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Can't remember ...
Was there this much angst about Yelich's contract when he signed it?
No it was pretty much universally praised, but it was announced in March 2020 just as everything was shutting down.
It's still way too early to call it a bad contract.
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It was less about the CBA than it was Manfred giving the players immunity. The MLBPA specifically denied that they stood in the way of player discipline.
That's right. Thank you.
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No it was pretty much universally praised, but it was announced in March 2020 just as everything was shutting down.
It's still way too early to call it a bad contract.
Exactly.
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No it was pretty much universally praised, but it was announced in March 2020 just as everything was shutting down.
It's still way too early to call it a bad contract.
I’m really hoping that back injury really limited him this year. He did look like he was just guessing up there. Maybe he needs the off-season to rehab.
I wonder if he wasn’t able to get around as quick as usual and was just in protect the plate mode. Anecdotally, it looked like he had a ton of check swings when I watched. He started to hit better towards the end, just no power.
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Can't remember ...
Was there this much angst about Yelich's contract when he signed it?
No. He was in his prime (28?) and coming off of 6.6 and 6.4 WAR seasons. Bottom line:
If he’s the guy who played in Miami it’s a fair deal to both sides.
If he’s the guy he was in his first two seasons in Milwaukee it’s a steal for the Brewers.
If he’s the guy he’s been the last two years it’s money down the drain.
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Because of your height sensitivity, Muggsy? Or because of him having the throwing yips last year?
Stealing signs have been part of baseball forever. Same thing in football, which is why you have three guys signaling in plays. And radio receivers. Remember the Patriots getting fined a few years ago?
Houston went high tech. Eventually, they got busted. They were punished within the established rules. And they were held in contempt by players and fans alike. There isn't a crap-ton else that can be done.
And honestly, the best story line remaining is Houston coming back from their collective sins.
Altuve is only 5'5 but his decisions were quite troubling to the diminutive contingent that supported him. Especially the kids. Don't forget Tower there are not many superstar athletes that are on the small side. You can't cheat like that and the fact that you're insinuating this is commonplace doesn't concern me.
Regardless, we must press onward. There will be a time when smaller citizens of the world unite and then all bets are off. I will shout out a warning to all MU hoop fans but this will not be an ephemeral attack and power grab such as the great Lilliputian take down of 1726. I'm not talking a physical evisceration, it will be a comprehensive societal shift. It will not be gradual and outside those I have warned it will take everyone by surprise. :)
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The way the Astros did it is not commonplace. Hence the fallout. Runners on second relaying signs? Forever. Guys in the dugout watching the third base coach to pick up their signs? Forever.
Stories about Bird or LeBron or Michael on defense telling the offensive players what play they are going to run? Stuff of legend.
The Astros found a new, high tech way to steal signs. They got busted. Time to move on.
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Couldn't they be given a much harsher penalty? LIke postseason bans or two year suspensions for players? I dunno. Seems ridiculous you can get away with with blatant cheating.
Again it's not the ncaa. A post season ban for an mlb team would be downright stupid for competition and financially. See above, they couldn't touch the players.
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I am ok with Shefter having his worked checked on a complex issue.
It appears as if the NFL is trying to discredit him for some reason.
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Again it's not the ncaa. A post season ban for an mlb team would be downright stupid for competition and financially. See above, they couldn't touch the players.
As was noted above, they could have punished the players. They chose to give them immunity and not pursue any punishment.
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The way the Astros did it is not commonplace. Hence the fallout. Runners on second relaying signs? Forever. Guys in the dugout watching the third base coach to pick up their signs? Forever.
Stories about Bird or LeBron or Michael on defense telling the offensive players what play they are going to run? Stuff of legend.
The Astros found a new, high tech way to steal signs. They got busted. Time to move on.
The whole thing still makes me chuckle. Electronic surveillance has been going on for a lot longer than Houston. The ‘51 Giants are one of the most celebrated baseball teams ever and they “cheated”their way to that pennant
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Don't get me started on air flow at the Metrodome.
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No. He was in his prime (28?) and coming off of 6.6 and 6.4 WAR seasons. Bottom line:
If he’s the guy who played in Miami it’s a fair deal to both sides.
If he’s the guy he was in his first two seasons in Milwaukee it’s a steal for the Brewers.
If he’s the guy he’s been the last two years it’s money down the drain.
Physically, Yelich is a different guy. The back problems have destroyed the things he could do. His swing is different because he doesn't have the torque that he had. He has a hard time turning on a fastball. He has a hard time reaching out for pitches on the outer edge. He can't run any more - 1/4 of the SBs the last 2 years as the two years prior.
Hopefully, with a full off-season, they can get him on a program to get him back to where he was. But, backs are always tricky.
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Couldn't they be given a much harsher penalty? LIke postseason bans or two year suspensions for players? I dunno. Seems ridiculous you can get away with with blatant cheating.
2 year suspensions?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
I hate that Astros as much as the next person. But my god would that be excessive.
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The whole thing still makes me chuckle. Electronic surveillance has been going on for a lot longer than Houston. The ‘51 Giants are one of the most celebrated baseball teams ever and they “cheated”their way to that pennant
Another team cheated 70 years ago, so their cheating is NBD?
Looks like the next team to fix a World Series is in the clear.
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Not basing this on tonight, but Hader is a piece that can be moved to get better on offense. There’s no one on the staff that can replace him but I feel good about the front office finding arms to fill that role.
One of the big 3 starters can get moved, too. I think they can start the year with Houser/Lauer/Ashby filling the final 3 spots and try getting an Anderson type as a swing man 6th starter.
The injuries to Williams and Suter were crushing, especially Suter who would have replaced Freddie yesterday.
I admit, this one hurts a lot more than 2018 because I think they’re better than how they played
As long as Hader's relatively affordable, and I think he will be for maybe one more year, the Brewers keep him, because he's so valuable. When his contract price goes up out of that range (maybe over $15MM?), that's when he's traded to a big money team for a big payload.
No way do they trade one of the big three starters now--their contracts are a small-market team's dream. When the money gets too much to handle, that's when they're moved, but not a month before. Next year's rotation: Burnes/Woodruff/Peralta/Ashby/Houser/Lauer. Hopefully they whittle that down to a 5-man rotation...
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As long as Hader's relatively affordable, and I think he will be for maybe one more year, the Brewers keep him, because he's so valuable. When his contract price goes up out of that range (maybe over $15MM?), that's when he's traded to a big money team for a big payload.
No way do they trade one of the big three starters now--their contracts are a small-market team's dream. When the money gets too much to handle, that's when they're moved, but not a month before. Next year's rotation: Burnes/Woodruff/Peralta/Ashby/Houser/Lauer. Hopefully they whittle that down to a 5-man rotation...
Bingo to all of this.
Hader’s only been successful in the Playoffs when his roll was “enter the game at the highest leverage situation.” Throw him for 2 innings, sit him for a game and a travel day. He hasn’t been good in the exclusively closer roll in the Playoffs.
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As long as Hader's relatively affordable, and I think he will be for maybe one more year, the Brewers keep him, because he's so valuable. When his contract price goes up out of that range (maybe over $15MM?), that's when he's traded to a big money team for a big payload.
No way do they trade one of the big three starters now--their contracts are a small-market team's dream. When the money gets too much to handle, that's when they're moved, but not a month before. Next year's rotation: Burnes/Woodruff/Peralta/Ashby/Houser/Lauer. Hopefully they whittle that down to a 5-man rotation...
That rotation is fantastic. The question is whether hitters either improve to their career means (Yelich, Hiura) or whether Stearns can pull impact bats out of their system/trade/FA market to improve their offense.
The bet was this past year that over 162 the pitching would win enough games to take the division. Baseball wisdom that pitching is what wins ballgames held true. Bats so prone to going into the freezer was always the achilles heel and it proved to be the downfall in a playoff series. They can run it back next year and hope the bats don't go cold in a short series, or hopefully do something to shore up that weakness.
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Another team cheated 70 years ago, so their cheating is NBD?
Looks like the next team to fix a World Series is in the clear.
I think teams have already found new ways to cheat and will always find new ways to cheat. 🤷🏼♂️
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I think teams have already found new ways to cheat and will always find new ways to cheat. 🤷🏼♂️
Oh, I agree. I just don't think the appropriate response when a team gets caught is to shrug one's shoulders and say "Hey, it happens."
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The way the Astros did it is not commonplace. Hence the fallout. Runners on second relaying signs? Forever. Guys in the dugout watching the third base coach to pick up their signs? Forever.
The Astros found a new, high tech way to steal signs. They got busted. Time to move on.
If the third base coach or a catcher is sloppy and and the bench or a runner on second steal their signs it’s on them - and it’s not cheating. It’s like noticing a pitcher who’s tipping his pitches - good, smart baseball.
What the Astros did, though, is cheating pure and simple. No comparison.
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They cheated and got caught. They were punished.
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Is is too early to start the "2022 MLB Pissing Thread" yet?
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Is is too early to start the "2022 MLB Pissing Thread" yet?
Give it until at least Halloween.
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As long as Hader's relatively affordable, and I think he will be for maybe one more year, the Brewers keep him, because he's so valuable. When his contract price goes up out of that range (maybe over $15MM?), that's when he's traded to a big money team for a big payload.
I’m not saying this to be a jerk, but your logic is all wrong. His absolute max value has come and gone. He still has great value, but he’s at $8 mil (totally fine), and then arb eligible. No team is going to trade for him if the Brewers gave him 3 years/$54 mil, quite certainly not for anything other than garbage minor leaguers. This isn’t the late ‘90s anymore. A players max value is when they have a long term contract with cost control. That window on Hader is closing.
Same with their three starters. Peralta is far and away their greatest trade asset. If I were the Sox, I’d be offering Jimenez and Kelley as a starting point to gauge interest in Peralta. If they’re going to trade Burnes or Woodruff, it behooves them to do it this off-season before either goes to arb.
I’m curious what the Brewers do. They have a dream rotation based on quality/age/cost. They’ll pay those three guys just over $13 mil next season.
If I’m Milwaukee, I’d be in on Kris Bryant and all in on Schwarber.
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No. He was in his prime (28?) and coming off of 6.6 and 6.4 WAR seasons. Bottom line:
If he’s the guy who played in Miami it’s a fair deal to both sides.
If he’s the guy he was in his first two seasons in Milwaukee it’s a steal for the Brewers.
If he’s the guy he’s been the last two years it’s money down the drain.
Thanks for the info. That all makes sense - as did the contract when it was signed.
Hoping for good health for Yelich.
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Give it until at least Halloween.
I have night sweats over your Yeli comment over his contract. I have memories of Soriano sugar plumbs dancing in my head.
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Dish, I’m curious why Schwarber. His all or nothing approach at the plate seems to be what keeps getting the Brewers in trouble. Granted, I know he was killing the ball in Washington.
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Dish, I’m curious why Schwarber. His all or nothing approach at the plate seems to be what keeps getting the Brewers in trouble. Granted, I know he was killing the ball in Washington.
I believe the universal DH will be part of the new CBA, and I think Schwarber would give them a little diversity with him DH’ing/corner outfield/first base. I also think a team can’t have enough left handed pop.
I will say, I thought Schwarber was on a one year $7-$8 mil deal. I forgot he’s at $10, with a mutual option. My original thought was the Brewers could get him in their price range (say 2 years/$11 mil), but if he opts out, and the universal DH comes back, I’d guess he’d look for a 3 year deal around $40. That might be too expensive then.
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I believe the universal DH will be part of the new CBA, and I think Schwarber would give them a little diversity with him DH’ing/corner outfield/first base. I also think a team can’t have enough left handed pop.
I will say, I thought Schwarber was on a one year $7-$8 mil deal. I forgot he’s at $10, with a mutual option. My original thought was the Brewers could get him in their price range (say 2 years/$11 mil), but if he opts out, and the universal DH comes back, I’d guess he’d look for a 3 year deal around $40. That might be too expensive then.
Will be interesting to see what the Brewers do. Next season they are committed to Yelich-$26M ($4M deferred), Cain $18M ($1M deferred), Wong-$8M, and Peralta-$2.25M. Add in JBJ's player option at $9.5M ($6.5M deferred). Garcia has a mutual option at $12M with a $1.5M buyout. MLB Trade Rumors is predicting arbitration awards of $10M for Hader, $7.1M for Woodruff, $4M for Adamas, $4M for Burnes, $4.1M for Navarez, $2.7M for Lauer, $2.3M for Houser, and $2.4M for Urias. The payroll adds up quickly...not sure how much room they have left to add a major piece, unless they trade someone like Hader or Woodruff.
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I get trading Hader and Woodruff now if the arb awards above are accurate. $17M, plus declining the $12M on Garcia, would open up some payroll that might work. Hader can be replaced with Williams.
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Will be interesting to see what the Brewers do. Next season they are committed to Yelich-$26M ($4M deferred), Cain $18M ($1M deferred), Wong-$8M, and Peralta-$2.25M. Add in JBJ's player option at $9.5M ($6.5M deferred). Garcia has a mutual option at $12M with a $1.5M buyout. MLB Trade Rumors is predicting arbitration awards of $10M for Hader, $7.1M for Woodruff, $4M for Adamas, $4M for Burnes, $4.1M for Navarez, $2.7M for Lauer, $2.3M for Houser, and $2.4M for Urias. The payroll adds up quickly...not sure how much room they have left to add a major piece, unless they trade someone like Hader or Woodruff.
Agreed - these get expensive quickly. I have a feeling Avi ends up testing the market, and I think it is really time to explore a Hader trade. That would open up enough money to create some flexibility. Shift Williams to closer, sign a handful of midlevel bullpen arms to try to replace Hader through depth. Then I think you try to replicate this year's spare parts offense but see if you can't get guys who are about 125% of what you had. I'm a big fan of Mark Canha, for example, and think he would be a really good fit with what this team does for a Kolton Wong price.
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I get trading Hader and Woodruff now if the arb awards above are accurate. $17M, plus declining the $12M on Garcia, would open up some payroll that might work. Hader can be replaced with Williams.
Not if da dude continues to act like an idiot. Firewater iz a bitch. In game 4, Williams would have pitched the 8th leaving Hader for inning 9. Fooked up da entire rotation, aina?
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The Brewers are in a favorable position in that the don't have to do much to keep winning the division. The Pirates and Cubs are in rebuild modes. The Cards core group is as old as Joe Biden. And the Reds are fading with contract (Mouse is owed $38m) and holes to fill (bullpen) on their own with a small market payroll.
Frankly, it's going to be hard to beat the Giants or Dodgers on a dime. The gap in talent and budget is just too big. Build for the regular season, and hope for the best. When the trade deadline hits, then to go for it all if need be by trading the farm.
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Dish, I’m curious why Schwarber. His all or nothing approach at the plate seems to be what keeps getting the Brewers in trouble. Granted, I know he was killing the ball in Washington.
He was all around a better hitter with the Sox this year as well.
Injury plagued year may be cause for a concern. But he hit amazingly all year when he did play
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The Brewers are in a favorable position in that the don't have to do much to keep winning the division. The Pirates and Cubs are in rebuild modes. The Cards core group is as old as Joe Biden. And the Reds are fading with contract (Mouse is owed $38m) and holes to fill (bullpen) on their own with a small market payroll.
Frankly, it's going to be hard to beat the Giants or Dodgers on a dime. The gap in talent and budget is just too big. Build for the regular season, and hope for the best. When the trade deadline hits, then to go for it all if need be by trading the farm.
?
Arenado is 30. O’Neill is 26. Carlson is 22. Gorman is 21. Bader is 27. Edman is 26. Sosa is 25. Herrera is 21. Liberatore is 22. Flaherty is 25. Hudson is 27. Gallegos is 30. Reyes is 27. Woodford is 24. Cabrera is 25. Whitley is 26. DeJong is 28. Nootbar is 24. Yepez is 23. Rondon is 27. Knizner is 26. Hicks is 25. All of these above are expected to play next season.
They are expected to possibly acquire Story (28) or Seager (27) at shortstop, part ways with DeJong, and keep Sosa.
Goldschmidt and Molina are the only two field players in the above list over 30. Goldschmidt had another strong season this year. Molina will be in his last year with two readily available catchers to play there.
Several of their starting pitchers and relievers are in their mid 20’s. Wainwright isn’t, (he had a strong season) a few others aren’t.
The Cardinals also have a lot of money coming off of the books this offseason. Carpenter, Fowler etc…so we’ll see what they do with that as well.
They may or may not be successful, but I wouldn’t call them old.
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I get trading Hader and Woodruff now if the arb awards above are accurate. $17M, plus declining the $12M on Garcia, would open up some payroll that might work. Hader can be replaced with Williams.
No way they trade Woodruff now. He's the type of player they would trade FOR at this point in his career.
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Not if da dude continues to act like an idiot. Firewater iz a bitch. In game 4, Williams would have pitched the 8th leaving Hader for inning 9. Fooked up da entire rotation, aina?
Until it looks like a systematic problem, it really isn't a problem.
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speaking of the Cards, they just fired Mike Schilt.
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TLR to the Cards!
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speaking of the Cards, they just fired Mike Schilt.
"Philosophical differences"
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speaking of the Cards, they just fired Mike Schilt.
IMO the biggest news here isn't that the Cards are getting a new manager. Its whether the new guy will be able to retain Mike Maddux. His importance literally cannot be overstated.
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18 years ago today ... the Bartman game.
The Marlins' 8th inning had to be the most amazing 30-35 minutes of any athletic event I've witnessed in person.
A lot of people don't remember, but that night's loss didn't eliminate the Cubs, it only forced a Game 7. (Just as some forget that the win over the Soviets didn't give the US hockey team gold in 1980 or that the Buckner error didn't end the '86 WS.) And in that Game 7, the Cubs took a 5-3 lead on homers by Wood and Alou. I'm not sure I've ever heard Wrigley louder than it was after Wood's HR.
But then that all went to shyte, too.
Even 18 years later, what happened on 10/14/03 seems impossible.
And, to my knowledge, Bartman STILL hasn't given an interview. I respect that, because the infamous so often look to cash in on their infamy.
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IMO the biggest news here isn't that the Cards are getting a new manager. Its whether the new guy will be able to retain Mike Maddux. His importance literally cannot be overstated.
Lots of Cardinals fans are pining for Molina to be player-manager. Best fans in baseball have spoken
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In fairness, Molina should also be general manager and head trainer.
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18 years ago today ... the Bartman game.
The Marlins' 8th inning had to be the most amazing 30-35 minutes of any athletic event I've witnessed in person.
A lot of people don't remember, but that night's loss didn't eliminate the Cubs, it only forced a Game 7. (Just as some forget that the win over the Soviets didn't give the US hockey team gold in 1980 or that the Buckner error didn't end the '86 WS.) And in that Game 7, the Cubs took a 5-3 lead on homers by Wood and Alou. I'm not sure I've ever heard Wrigley louder than it was after Wood's HR.
But then that all went to shyte, too.
Even 18 years later, what happened on 10/14/03 seems impossible.
And, to my knowledge, Bartman STILL hasn't given an interview. I respect that, because the infamous so often look to cash in on their infamy.
Buckner's error lost the game for the Red Sox but the Cubs still had the lead after the Bartman interference. Cubs fans always ignore what came after and blame everything on Bartman. Alex Gonzalez deserves the real blame. Here's what I found on Wikipedia:
Following the incident, the Marlins scored eight runs:[8]
Continuing his at bat, Castillo drew a walk. Ball four was a wild pitch from Prior, which allowed Juan Pierre, who doubled before Castillo came to bat, to advance to third base.
-Iván Rodríguez, on an 0–2 pitch, singled to drive in the first run of the inning, making the score 3–1.
-Miguel Cabrera hit a ground ball to Alex Gonzalez, who misfielded the ball. Had Gonzalez fielded the ball, the Cubs could have either ended the half-inning with a double play, still ahead by two runs, or at least added the second out. Instead, all runners were safe and the bases were loaded.
-Derrek Lee doubled, tying the score and chasing Prior from the game.
-Relief pitcher Kyle Farnsworth issued an intentional walk to Mike Lowell, then gave up a sacrifice fly to Jeff Conine, giving Florida a 4–3 lead. Cubs right fielder Sammy Sosa missed the cut-off man, allowing Lowell to move up to second base. The Cubs issued another intentional walk to Todd Hollandsworth, which again loaded the bases.
-A bases-clearing double from Mike Mordecai, who led-off the half-inning, broke the game open, making the score 7–3.
-Mike Remlinger replaced Farnsworth and Pierre singled to put Florida ahead 8–3.
-Finally, Luis Castillo, whose foul pop initiated the controversy, popped out to second to end the inning. The Marlins had sent twelve batters to the plate and scored eight runs. Florida won the game 8–3.
I think the last anyone heard from Bartman publically was when the Cubs gave him a WS ring in 2016 and he said was incredibly thankful and gracious:
“Although I do not consider myself worthy of such an honor, I am deeply moved and sincerely grateful to receive an official Chicago Cubs 2016 World Series Championship ring,” he said. “I am fully aware of the historical significance and appreciate the symbolism the ring represents on multiple levels. My family and I will cherish it for generations. I am happy to be reunited with the Cubs family and positively moving forward with my life,” he said
Other than him being ND grad, I respect Bartman. As you said, he could have made a lot of money off the incident.
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Buckner's error lost the game for the Red Sox but the Cubs still had the lead after the Bartman interference. Cubs fans always ignore what came after and blame everything on Bartman. Alex Gonzalez deserves the real blame. Here's what I found on Wikipedia:
Following the incident, the Marlins scored eight runs:[8]
Continuing his at bat, Castillo drew a walk. Ball four was a wild pitch from Prior, which allowed Juan Pierre, who doubled before Castillo came to bat, to advance to third base.
-Iván Rodríguez, on an 0–2 pitch, singled to drive in the first run of the inning, making the score 3–1.
-Miguel Cabrera hit a ground ball to Alex Gonzalez, who misfielded the ball. Had Gonzalez fielded the ball, the Cubs could have either ended the half-inning with a double play, still ahead by two runs, or at least added the second out. Instead, all runners were safe and the bases were loaded.
-Derrek Lee doubled, tying the score and chasing Prior from the game.
-Relief pitcher Kyle Farnsworth issued an intentional walk to Mike Lowell, then gave up a sacrifice fly to Jeff Conine, giving Florida a 4–3 lead. Cubs right fielder Sammy Sosa missed the cut-off man, allowing Lowell to move up to second base. The Cubs issued another intentional walk to Todd Hollandsworth, which again loaded the bases.
-A bases-clearing double from Mike Mordecai, who led-off the half-inning, broke the game open, making the score 7–3.
-Mike Remlinger replaced Farnsworth and Pierre singled to put Florida ahead 8–3.
-Finally, Luis Castillo, whose foul pop initiated the controversy, popped out to second to end the inning. The Marlins had sent twelve batters to the plate and scored eight runs. Florida won the game 8–3.
I think the last anyone heard from Bartman publically was when the Cubs gave him a WS ring in 2016 and he said was incredibly thankful and gracious:
“Although I do not consider myself worthy of such an honor, I am deeply moved and sincerely grateful to receive an official Chicago Cubs 2016 World Series Championship ring,” he said. “I am fully aware of the historical significance and appreciate the symbolism the ring represents on multiple levels. My family and I will cherish it for generations. I am happy to be reunited with the Cubs family and positively moving forward with my life,” he said
Other than him being ND grad, I respect Bartman. As you said, he could have made a lot of money off the incident.
John McNamara not replacing Buckner defensively with Dave Stapleton as he has done for most of the end of the year was the real culprit. I get the sentimentality of Buckner being on the field but a two run lead against that team was hardly a can’t-lose spot.
It makes me think of Ray Fosse who passed away yesterday after a long illness. Fosse, like Buckner, was a great player defined by one moment. Neither was something they probably wished to be remembered by nor should they given all they accomplished. Sometimes, the cruelty of the games is too much
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interesting strategy by the Dodgers tonight. They'll start a reliever, Knebel, instead of Urias to prevent the Giants from stacking the top of the lineup with righties and force the Giants to replace guys once Urias comes in. Well played by Roberts and apparently Roberts texted Kapler to tell him he was going to do that.
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Buckner's error lost the game for the Red Sox but the Cubs still had the lead after the Bartman interference. Cubs fans always ignore what came after and blame everything on Bartman. Alex Gonzalez deserves the real blame.
The Bartman stuff was embarrassingly overblown. The Alex Gonzalez muff is where I truly lost it, considering how good a fielder he had been.
That night was AWFUL. I was a freshman in college watching in the dorms surrounded by many native Ohioans who were largely Reds fans, thus reveling in schadenfreude. I closed the door to my room as 3-4 drunk idiots chanted "JACK MC-KEON" outside my room pretending they were just happy for a Reds manager.
Still I remember going to bed thinking "The Cubs are starting Wood in Game 7, they'll be fine". I honestly don't remember anything about Game 7, Ive blocked so much of it out.
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The only time I got written up by an RA was for cheering so loud with a bunch of Mets fans when the ball rolled through Durham's legs and the 84 collapse was complete.
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interesting strategy by the Dodgers tonight. They'll start a reliever, Knebel, instead of Urias to prevent the Giants from stacking the top of the lineup with righties and force the Giants to replace guys once Urias comes in. Well played by Roberts and apparently Roberts texted Kapler to tell him he was going to do that.
I think it was a really good move as well. Posey kills Urias. This might have 1 less Posey AB. And it’s gonna force them to either keep KB down in lineup or move him up vs worse match up. As well as all the righty role players
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Good points on Game 6, 2003, guys.
Gonzalez booted a sure DP ball, Prior lost his composure, Dusty messed up, etc. Just a shyte-show of historic proportions, which made it a surreal half-hour. I have seen a LOT of baseball (as have many other Scoopers) and there’s never been anything like it.
As for Buckner, the recent 30-for-30 on the Mets did a good job of explaining how huge an eff-up that was by McNamara. Buckner had a heck of a career and deserved better.
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Game 5 living up to the billing
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Game 5 living up to the billing
Just a great baseball game. Logan Webb. Man, hell of a start for the young man.
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Good points on Game 6, 2003, guys.
Gonzalez booted a sure DP ball, Prior lost his composure, Dusty messed up, etc. Just a shyte-show of historic proportions, which made it a surreal half-hour. I have seen a LOT of baseball (as have many other Scoopers) and there’s never been anything like it.
As for Buckner, the recent 30-for-30 on the Mets did a good job of explaining how huge an eff-up that was by McNamara. Buckner had a heck of a career and deserved better.
People also assume that Alou would have caught that ball. I sure don't think that was a given. He threw the tantrum like he would have caught it, but who knows. Would have been a really tough play.
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Tough finish for the Giants, but bad calls happen. Dodgers earned it.
Great game.
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Make a call and make it confident.
That was nowhere close to a swinging strike.
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Buckner's error lost the game for the Red Sox but the Cubs still had the lead after the Bartman interference. Cubs fans always ignore what came after and blame everything on Bartman.
I don't think many people actually blame bartman.
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I don't think many people actually blame bartman.
They most certainly did at the time.
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They most certainly did at the time.
He became an iconic scapegoat. But most people knew the Cubs unnatural carnal knowledgeed themselves.
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They most certainly did at the time.
Should blame Gonzo booting that double play ball, right? (or is that a different Cubs playoff loss?)
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You can watch the entirety of the top 8th (only) on YouTube. I watched it last night, if I were a Cub fan, there’s one singular person I’d be pissed at, and that’s Dusty Baker.
It’s a monstrosity how he handled that inning. He just casually starts the inning with no one warming up and Prior near 100 pitches. As soon as Pierre doubles, you should at minimum have someone up. Prior is at 105 (!) pitches with the heart of the order coming up. It’s at pitch 113 (8 pitches into Castillo’s at bat) that Farnsworth gets up to stretch. Ironically pitch 113 is also the Bartman incident.
Prior walks Castillo on the next pitch, and Ivan Rodriguez comes up. A clearly fatigued Prior (velocity down to 92) gives up a basehit to I-Rod, 3-1 Cubs.
Clearly with his pitch count at 117, go ahead run at the plate in the form of clean up hitter (young) Miguel Cabrera (who homered earlier in the series off Prior) Dusty is coming out, right? Wrong. First pitch, Alex Gonzalez play happens. Still 3-1 Cubs.
He now HAS TO get Prior out, 118 pitches, Derek Lee (2-3 off Prior in game 2 with a HR) coming up.
He keeps Prior in! First pitch to Lee, rocket double to left, two runs score, 3-3 game.
If the above happened today, I don’t know if Dusty makes it out of Wrigley with his job.
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You can watch the entirety of the top 8th (only) on YouTube. I watched it last night, if I were a Cub fan, there’s one singular person I’d be pissed at, and that’s Dusty Baker.
It’s a monstrosity how he handled that inning. He just casually starts the inning with no one warming up and Prior near 100 pitches. As soon as Pierre doubles, you should at minimum have someone up. Prior is at 105 (!) pitches with the heart of the order coming up. It’s at pitch 113 (8 pitches into Castillo’s at bat) that Farnsworth gets up to stretch. Ironically pitch 113 is also the Bartman incident.
Prior walks Castillo on the next pitch, and Ivan Rodriguez comes up. A clearly fatigued Prior (velocity down to 92) gives up a basehit to I-Rod, 3-1 Cubs.
Clearly with his pitch count at 117, go ahead run at the plate in the form of clean up hitter (young) Miguel Cabrera (who homered earlier in the series off Prior) Dusty is coming out, right? Wrong. First pitch, Alex Gonzalez play happens. Still 3-1 Cubs.
He now HAS TO get Prior out, 118 pitches, Derek Lee (2-3 off Prior in game 2 with a HR) coming up.
He keeps Prior in! First pitch to Lee, rocket double to left, two runs score, 3-3 game.
If the above happened today, I don’t know if Dusty makes it out of Wrigley with his job.
I don't know. Shortstop makes a pretty routine play for 2 and none of that matters.
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I don't know. Shortstop makes a pretty routine play for 2 and none of that matters.
Even fielded cleanly, as slow as that ball is hit to Gonzalez’s right, a double play turn there is slim/unlikely .
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You can watch the entirety of the top 8th (only) on YouTube. I watched it last night, if I were a Cub fan, there’s one singular person I’d be pissed at, and that’s Dusty Baker.
It’s a monstrosity how he handled that inning. He just casually starts the inning with no one warming up and Prior near 100 pitches. As soon as Pierre doubles, you should at minimum have someone up. Prior is at 105 (!) pitches with the heart of the order coming up. It’s at pitch 113 (8 pitches into Castillo’s at bat) that Farnsworth gets up to stretch. Ironically pitch 113 is also the Bartman incident.
Prior walks Castillo on the next pitch, and Ivan Rodriguez comes up. A clearly fatigued Prior (velocity down to 92) gives up a basehit to I-Rod, 3-1 Cubs.
Clearly with his pitch count at 117, go ahead run at the plate in the form of clean up hitter (young) Miguel Cabrera (who homered earlier in the series off Prior) Dusty is coming out, right? Wrong. First pitch, Alex Gonzalez play happens. Still 3-1 Cubs.
He now HAS TO get Prior out, 118 pitches, Derek Lee (2-3 off Prior in game 2 with a HR) coming up.
He keeps Prior in! First pitch to Lee, rocket double to left, two runs score, 3-3 game.
If the above happened today, I don’t know if Dusty makes it out of Wrigley with his job.
I like Dusty ... but that was a disastrous inning for him. As you said, it would be hard for a manager to have handled it worse. Having said that, there were plenty of other culprits, starting with Alou and Gonzalez.
Why would you torture yourself and watch it again, Dish?
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Even fielded cleanly, as slow as that ball is hit to Gonzalez’s right, a double play turn there is slim/unlikely .
I'll take your word for it, I haven't seen it in 18 years. But I know I remember thinking ot was a pretty standard double play ball.
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As for last night's game ...
It was a chickenpoop move for the ump who blew the call to not admit afterward that he made a mistake, and for his crew chief to give cover. Be accountable, like Jim Joyce was after he robbed Armando Galarraga of a perfect game.
Still, the call didn't "cost" SF the game. I mean, that call didn't give LA a run in the top of the 9th. As their own manager, Gabe Kapler, said:
"There are other reasons we didn't win today's baseball game."
Just sucks that Flores didn't get a chance to put his bat on the ball, and that a great game ended on a missed call.
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The checked swing is among the last judgement calls.
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The checked swing is among the last judgement calls.
Yeah ... except the judgment made to end the game was wrong.
It's painful for any official in any sport to admit any mistake, let alone one that ended a postseason series between two bitter rivals. But he did blow it, he knows with 100% certainty that he blew it, and he should have owned it.
Again, like Jim Joyce did.
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Idk why Flores was even batting there
0/17 against Scherzer
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Idk why Flores was even batting there
0/17 against Scherzer
Yeah, it was cruddy the way the game ended … but it was gonna be over after he whiffed on the next pitch anyway.
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Idk why Flores was even batting there
0/17 against Scherzer
Really? They had two options- Casali, a light hitting backup catcher 0/2 career against Scherzer, and Duggar, a backup OF 0/3 in the series who’s never faced Scherzer. ::)
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Really? They had two options- Casali, a light hitting backup catcher 0/2 career against Scherzer, and Duggar, a backup OF 0/3 in the series who’s never faced Scherzer. ::)
Duggar and Flores had similar OBPs, OPS+ and slugging%.
So it wasn’t much of a trade off when you consider one guy is completely inept against said pitcher.
But the stat was mostly to highlight that while the call sucked. That was a set up pitch for a K that was imminent.
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This Red Sox/Astros game is going to be 6 hours long.
I’m not joking.
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This Red Sox/Astros game is going to be 6 hours long.
I’m not joking.
It’s definitely gonna overlap easily with the other game
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Wow. Braves in 4?
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Wow. Braves in 4?
Definitely the most palatable of the remaining teams.
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Dodgers have a relentless lineup.
But pitching to Betts there was quite literally insane
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Unreal swing in Boston. Sox 6 outs away from 3-1 and the Stros explode for 6 unanswered runs to take control of the series back.
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It’s unfathomable that MLB assigned Laz Diaz to a home plate assignment in the playoffs.
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It’s unfathomable that MLB assigned Laz Diaz to a home plate assignment in the playoffs.
It's time for AI to primarily replace the home plate umpire. MLB talks about wanting to speed up the game but this level of inefficiency (incompetence) is no longer acceptable with technological advances.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxsports.com.au/baseball/baseball-news-2021-playoffs-boston-red-sox-vs-houston-astros-game-four-laz-diaz-home-plate-umpire-mistakes-nathan-eovaldi-pitch/news-story/86162e234663080b18b815bc72483a2d
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It’s unfathomable that MLB assigned Laz Diaz to a home plate assignment in the playoffs.
The strike 3 that would have ended the 9th was bad and Diaz missed pitches all night I'm a big Sox fan, but if Eovaldi doesn't hang a slider after that pitch, no one would remember the missed call.
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It's time for AI to primarily replace the home plate umpire. MLB talks about wanting to speed up the game but this level of inefficiency (incompetence) is no longer acceptable with technological advances.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxsports.com.au/baseball/baseball-news-2021-playoffs-boston-red-sox-vs-houston-astros-game-four-laz-diaz-home-plate-umpire-mistakes-nathan-eovaldi-pitch/news-story/86162e234663080b18b815bc72483a2d
That was an interesting piece. Thanks for the link. I knew Diaz was bad, but I didn't know he was that bad. I can't argue with your view that it's time to use AI for ball/strike calls. You're probably right. A lot of players wouldn't like the results, especially at first, but they'd get used to it fairly quickly.
As for the Eovaldi curve that has so many up in arms ... the ball caught the very top outside corner. Some people are acting as if it was right down the middle, an obvious miss, but it was an inch inside the zone. And it got there from further outside; when I saw it live, I also thought it was outside because of its trajectory. That's not to excuse Diaz -- he is a high-paid professional and shouldn't have missed so many pitches, but it's not like that one call, in and of itself, was an egregious mistake.
Oh, and Eovaldi also is a high-paid professional; there was no rule that once Diaz missed that call by an inch, Eovaldi and a bunch of Red Sox relievers had to give up a bazillion hits.
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That was an interesting piece. Thanks for the link. I knew Diaz was bad, but I didn't know he was that bad. I can't argue with your view that it's time to use AI for ball/strike calls. You're probably right. A lot of players wouldn't like the results, especially at first, but they'd get used to it fairly quickly.
As for the Eovaldi curve that has so many up in arms ... the ball caught the very top outside corner. Some people are acting as if it was right down the middle, an obvious miss, but it was an inch inside the zone. And it got there from further outside; when I saw it live, I also thought it was outside because of its trajectory. That's not to excuse Diaz -- he is a high-paid professional and shouldn't have missed so many pitches, but it's not like that one call, in and of itself, was an egregious mistake.
Oh, and Eovaldi also is a high-paid professional; there was no rule that once Diaz missed that call by an inch, Eovaldi and a bunch of Red Sox relievers had to give up a bazillion hits.
It was just one reliever, Martin Perez, who let in all the runs. Weird choice to bring in the last guy in your bullpen to keep a one run deficit with two outs in the ninth. I agree that the missed strike wasn't egregious. Eovaldi was dealing at that point and I am sure if he had to do it again he'd have elevated a fastball rather than throw a slider to Castro.
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It was just one reliever, Martin Perez, who let in all the runs. Weird choice to bring in the last guy in your bullpen to keep a one run deficit with two outs in the ninth. I agree that the missed strike wasn't egregious. Eovaldi was dealing at that point and I am sure if he had to do it again he'd have elevated a fastball rather than throw a slider to Castro.
Thanks for your correction on Perez being the bullpen culprit, and I totally agree about both the managing and Eovaldi's hanging meatball.
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Andy Haines fired. Maybe whoever they bring in next can fix Keston.
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I can fix da dude. He's trying to lift every pitch outta da park. Upward motion to his swing, hey?
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That is the modern swing.
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I mean, maybe Keston isn't that good after pitchers adjusted to him. Wouldn't be the first.
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I believe Keston's mother was diagnosed with some kind of cancer and he talked about it really affecting him personally. Hopefully she can find good health and hopefully that lifts a weight off of Keston's shoulders.
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So much for the Dodgers rolling the Braves. I'm very surprised
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Braves are one semi-flukish home run away from having swept the Dodgers.
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Braves are one semi-flukish home run away from having swept the Dodgers.
Wonder who's going to replace Dave Roberts?
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Braves are one semi-flukish home run away from having swept the Dodgers.
True, but the Dodgers were one play away from winning either of the first two games.
It's 3-1, and that's what it should be.
Meanwhile, Dusty has the Astros within a game of another WS appearance. I hope it doesn't get messed up. I find myself rooting for him.
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True, but the Dodgers were one play away from winning either of the first two games.
It's 3-1, and that's what it should be.
Meanwhile, Dusty has the Astros within a game of another WS appearance. I hope it doesn't get messed up. I find myself rooting for him.
I don’t know if Dusty is a “great” manager. He may be.
But, remember how people used to say that “Bill Clinton was always the smartest guy in the room? Well, when Dusty enters, he is always the coolest guy in the room. Maybe that’s why guys love playing for him so much.
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edit: really?
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Who the fook referred to Clinton as "the smartest guy in the room?"
Were he so smart, he'd never have married horse face. I will give the ass hole credit for cheating on her, doe, hey?
Classy stuff all around.
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Classy stuff all around.
Thanks for quoting before he deleted it lol.
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Thanks for quoting before he deleted it lol.
He didn't. A mod did.
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I don’t know if Dusty is a “great” manager. He may be.
Dusty is great at what is probably a big-league manager's most important job: dealing with the various egos of multimillionaires and uniting them for a common cause. It's why over and over and over again, he has gone into difficult situations and helped turn things around very quickly.
But while he has proven himself as one of the few managers who always gets a team from Point A to Point B, he has yet to get any team to Point C (as in Championship), with many of his postseason exits having been gut-wrenching. That suggests something less than greatness in actual game management against an opponent with top-quality talent and a good manager.
Baker is a good guy with an interesting life story, and a baseball man through and through. I'm rooting for him to finally get the title this year. It won't be easy.
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Dusty is great at what is probably a big-league manager's most important job: dealing with the various egos of multimillionaires and uniting them for a common cause. It's why over and over and over again, he has gone into difficult situations and helped turn things around very quickly.
But while he has proven himself as one of the few managers who always gets a team from Point A to Point B, he has yet to get any team to Point C (as in Championship), with many of his postseason exits having been gut-wrenching. That suggests something less than greatness in actual game management against an opponent with top-quality talent and a good manager.
Baker is a good guy with an interesting life story, and a baseball man through and through. I'm rooting for him to finally get the title this year. It won't be easy.
I said here that hiring Dusty was a bad idea. But it turned out to be a very good idea because they are letting Dusty do the things that Dusty does best (the things you mention) but he is surrounded by people who better do the things he doesn't do well (like game management, pitching management and use of analytics.)
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Anything can and does happen in short 7 game playoff series (or less). Regular season is regular season. Post season is post season. They are two very different things.
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I said here that hiring Dusty was a bad idea. But it turned out to be a very good idea because they are letting Dusty do the things that Dusty does best (the things you mention) but he is surrounded by people who better do the things he doesn't do well (like game management, pitching management and use of analytics.)
Perhaps this is a sign that he has finally fully bought into that stuff and is really listening to those people. I'm not close enough to the situation to know, but he's obviously doing something right.
Houston's starter was totally dealing yesterday, so I'm glad Dusty let him go 8 innings instead of pulling him "just because." They won't need Valdez again until the World Series (if they're good and lucky enough to get there), so why not give your bullpen the day off?
Anything can and does happen in short 7 game playoff series (or less). Regular season is regular season. Post season is post season. They are two very different things.
Yes. That certainly is a fact.
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Braves are one semi-flukish home run away from having swept the Dodgers.
Then on to Colorado to play the World Series.
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Wonder who's going to replace Dave Roberts?
Will he still get replaced if he wins another World Series?
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Dusty is great at what is probably a big-league manager's most important job: dealing with the various egos of multimillionaires and uniting them for a common cause. It's why over and over and over again, he has gone into difficult situations and helped turn things around very quickly.
But while he has proven himself as one of the few managers who always gets a team from Point A to Point B, he has yet to get any team to Point C (as in Championship), with many of his postseason exits having been gut-wrenching. That suggests something less than greatness in actual game management against an opponent with top-quality talent and a good manager.
Baker is a good guy with an interesting life story, and a baseball man through and through. I'm rooting for him to finally get the title this year. It won't be easy.
You are right here. Dusty is a baseball lifer who has seen and done it all. Regretably, Astros are basically out of healthy pitchers with two games to play in the LCS.
Dusty is desperate and calling anyone in Houston who can pitch. Dusty was my little league coach, he remembered my pretty good curveball and he asked me to start Game 7... but I reminded Dusty ...I just cant go on less than 6 decades rest. lol
Seriously, I feel for the Astros owner and GM. Based on signings and current contracts, Astros starting rotation in 2021 was supposed to be:
Justin Verlander ($33Mil),
Zach Grienke ($35Mil),
Lance McCullers ($6.5Mil), and
Framber Valdes($650k)...
Instead they will have Houwarrior starting game 7 on just 53 years short rest!
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You’ve still got that 44 mph heater, HW!
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Dodgers will need to rely on Atlanta history of choke jobs to pull this off. Scherzer unavailable with a dead arm. Explains his mere mortal effort over the last 4 starts or so.
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Nun sends Red Sox packing.
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/houston-nun-first-pitch-alcs
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Incredible job by the Astros to win the AL pennant.
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Dodgers will need to rely on Atlanta history of choke jobs to pull this off. Scherzer unavailable with a dead arm. Explains his mere mortal effort over the last 4 starts or so.
7th inning. Braves are starting the collapse. (Maybe)
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7th inning. Braves are starting the collapse. (Maybe)
Nope.
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Nope.
Nope.
Glad to see the braves beat the dodgers.
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Great job by Atlanta. Lose one of the best stars in the game halfway through the year, rebuilt their roster via mid season trades, remarkably well done.
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Great job by Atlanta. Lose one of the best stars in the game halfway through the year, rebuilt their roster via mid season trades, remarkably well done.
Agree. Kudos to the whole organization.
Hope it’s a good Series.
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Wake me up when the World Series is over.
Atlanta — never, ever, never. After what they did to Milwaukee, I still have hope that franchise shrivels up and dies like it almost did in the 1970s.
Houston — eeeh. I guess I want them to win as a default to cheering for Atlanta but being for Houston is being for Kansas City or Minnesota. Outside of Harris County, who cares.
The best 5hing both these teams ever had was Milo.
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Say what you will about Houston or Atlanta, but at least they’re not St. Louis
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Say what you will about Houston or Atlanta, but at least they’re not St. Louis
I just hope they don’t break any of the unwritten rules. We don’t need CD another baseball scandal.
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Say what you will about Houston or Atlanta, but at least they’re not St. Louis
But we all know that Yadier is going to impact this series anyway.
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But we all know that Yadier is going to impact this series anyway.
Everyone knows a team of 25 mini-Molinas could beat either of these teams.
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Everyone knows a team of 25 mini-Molinas could beat either of these teams.
Why, of course.
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Will the MLB allow its World Series to be played in Atlanta after moving the All-Star game out just a few months ago?
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Will the MLB allow its World Series to be played in Atlanta after moving the All-Star game out just a few months ago?
Looks like it. Not sure why you decided to bring this up now though.
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Looks like it. Not sure why you decided to bring this up now though.
Yes you are.
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Yes you are.
Cause he's a clown?
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Aren't we all from time to time?
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Will the MLB allow its World Series to be played in Atlanta after moving the All-Star game out just a few months ago?
"4 or 5 days ago" doesn't matter, much less 4 or 5 months.
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Or, since some people are feeling cantankerous this evening....
One is a baseball team earning the right to play for a championship. One is an exhibition that can clearly be moved anywhere on short notice and why give tacit approval to discriminatory practices.
Cuing up the inevitable 'what abouts'.
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The best 5hing both these teams ever had was Milo.
Milo Hamilton? My least favorite White Sox announcer ever. Even worse than Ed Farmer.
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Morton. Three outs after having his leg fractured.
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Bullpen vs arm barn.
The best thing that PETA has ever come up with? Or more woke cancel culture? ;D
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Bullpen vs arm barn.
The best thing that PETA has ever come up with? Or more woke cancel culture? ;D
I actually kind of like it. I will now make an effort to call it arm barn. Not sure how that’s not insensitive to arms, but we will go with it.
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If I’m the Brewers, I’m getting in quick on the upcoming fire sale in Oakland.
The White Sox should be asking into that party as well.
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Bullpen vs arm barn.
The best thing that PETA has ever come up with? Or more woke cancel culture? ;D
Can you imagine the the ads for mens deodorant with ball players in the arm barn. Then again if bullpen is offensive to bulls what's next? Will the Marquette Golden Eagle mascot caricature be offensive to actual golden eagles? Isn't it cruel even symbolically to confine a golden eagle to a basketball arena?
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Can you imagine the the ads for mens deodorant with ball players in the arm barn. Then again if bullpen is offensive to bulls what's next? Will the Marquette Golden Eagle mascot caricature be offensive to actual golden eagles? Isn't it cruel even symbolically to confine a golden eagle to a basketball arena?
I would say the cruelness is making it look like a silly chicken than the fear-inducing killer it really is.
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If I’m the Brewers, I’m getting in quick on the upcoming fire sale in Oakland.
The White Sox should be asking into that party as well.
Do you think the Melvin move foreshadows the A's hitting reset? Canha coming off their books roughly offsets their projected Arb raises, so they would be sitting at about $90MM if they don't do anything. I could see them offloading Manea who is due $10MM in his last year before FA, but otherwise they could pretty much run it back with this group for another year if they wanted to.
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Do you think the Melvin move foreshadows the A's hitting reset? Canha coming off their books roughly offsets their projected Arb raises, so they would be sitting at about $90MM if they don't do anything. I could see them offloading Manea who is due $10MM in his last year before FA, but otherwise they could pretty much run it back with this group for another year if they wanted to.
Brewers ought to be gearing up for a run at Matt Olson
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Do you think the Melvin move foreshadows the A's hitting reset? Canha coming off their books roughly offsets their projected Arb raises, so they would be sitting at about $90MM if they don't do anything. I could see them offloading Manea who is due $10MM in his last year before FA, but otherwise they could pretty much run it back with this group for another year if they wanted to.
I think if a team wants to talk Olson, Chapman, Bassitt, Montana, Manaea, and you’re offering young/controllable talent, the A’s will be more than happy to take your call.
The Brewers should be all in on Olson.
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Do I think PETAs argument is dumb? Yes. Do I hate arm barn? Can't say that I do
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Do I think PETAs argument is dumb? Yes. Do I hate arm barn? Can't say that I do
I think bulls would be more offended by the use of their leather to catch baseballs than what they call the place were relief pitchers sit during the game.
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Do I think PETAs argument is dumb? Yes. Do I hate arm barn? Can't say that I do
Agree on both counts.
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W arming
A rea for
R elief
P itchers
They are exhibiting the PETA principle, showing they have risen to their level of incompetence.
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Do I think PETAs argument is dumb? Yes. Do I hate arm barn? Can't say that I do
Totally. PETA doing what PETA does, go for publicity by feigning outrage at something silly that really does nothing to help animals.
That being said, arm barn is so bad it’s good. Has a lot of merch potential
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Altuve got most of that one.
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Wow. If the Braves win this one Houston is done. That was incredible.
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Wow. If the Braves win this one Houston is done. That was incredible.
Well, obviously, Houston isn't actually done until the Braves finish them off. Teams have come back from 3-1 down to win, including the Dodgers just last year against these Braves, the Cubs in the 2016 World Series, and the Marlins vs the Cubs in the 2003 NLCS.
But yes, there's a big difference between being down 3-1 and being tied 2-2. An understatement to say Astros are in trouble. The Braves shouldn't tempt fate by going back to Houston, though.
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Tough day for Red Sox fans. RIP Remdawg.
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Bullpen vs arm barn.
The best thing that PETA has ever come up with? Or more woke cancel culture? ;D
Bulls are not offended by Bullpen but are generally offended by the human race.
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The Braves just slammed the door in the 1st inning. Wow.
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Good grief! Maybe the Astros players read my comments.
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The Braves just slammed the door in the 1st inning. Wow.
Chill. The Astros are very much alive.
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Chill. The Astros are very much alive.
I'm shocked that the Braves didn't slam the door.
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I'm shocked that the Braves didn't slam the door.
Really? It's baseball. I'll be kinda surprised if there isn't a Game 7 ... but only kinda.
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Has Game 5 ended yet?
Baseball is destroying itself. The World Series in their showcase event and it seems the only purpose is to drive people away in droves.
Such simple fixes. Such reluctance to do anything.
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Has Game 5 ended yet?
Baseball is destroying itself. The World Series in their showcase event and it seems the only purpose is to drive people away in droves.
Such simple fixes. Such reluctance to do anything.
MLB is criticized for not doing anything. MLB does something. MLB is criticized for changing the game. MLB stops enforcing the new rules.
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MLB is criticized for not doing anything. MLB does something. MLB is criticized for changing the game. MLB stops enforcing the new rules.
I've seen tons discussed about this topic. I think the pitch clock is desperately needed. In the minor league they tested it in, walks and strikeouts went down and balls in play went up. That's what baseball "should" want.
What baseball does not need is 26 or more man rosters so they can add even more pitchers so we can have even more relief appearances and even longer games. And the relief pitchers are the worst offenders. The come in knowing they are only going to throw 10-20 pitches, so they don't mind spending 30-50 seconds gearing up for each pitch. Game 7 of the 1960 World Series was a 10-9 thriller with 24 hits and 5 walks and it only took 2:36 to play. Game action, baserunners and fielders in motion, etc., is what baseball needs.
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I've seen tons discussed about this topic. I think the pitch clock is desperately needed. In the minor league they tested it in, walks and strikeouts went down and balls in play went up. That's what baseball "should" want.
What baseball does not need is 26 or more man rosters so they can add even more pitchers so we can have even more relief appearances and even longer games. And the relief pitchers are the worst offenders. The come in knowing they are only going to throw 10-20 pitches, so they don't mind spending 30-50 seconds gearing up for each pitch. Game 7 of the 1960 World Series was a 10-9 thriller with 24 hits and 5 walks and it only took 2:36 to play. Game action, baserunners and fielders in motion, etc., is what baseball needs.
You are right.
I think the one single thing that would speed games up the most is prohibiting batters from leaving the box between pitches. Call a strike every time a batter leaves the box. Then enforce a 15 second time limit on a pitcher releasing the ball.
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MLB is criticized for not doing anything. MLB does something. MLB is criticized for changing the game. MLB stops enforcing the new rules.
Except they haven’t really done anything.
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I've seen tons discussed about this topic. I think the pitch clock is desperately needed. In the minor league they tested it in, walks and strikeouts went down and balls in play went up. That's what baseball "should" want.
What baseball does not need is 26 or more man rosters so they can add even more pitchers so we can have even more relief appearances and even longer games. And the relief pitchers are the worst offenders. The come in knowing they are only going to throw 10-20 pitches, so they don't mind spending 30-50 seconds gearing up for each pitch. Game 7 of the 1960 World Series was a 10-9 thriller with 24 hits and 5 walks and it only took 2:36 to play. Game action, baserunners and fielders in motion, etc., is what baseball needs.
Yep. Agreed.
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I've seen tons discussed about this topic. I think the pitch clock is desperately needed. In the minor league they tested it in, walks and strikeouts went down and balls in play went up. That's what baseball "should" want.
What baseball does not need is 26 or more man rosters so they can add even more pitchers so we can have even more relief appearances and even longer games. And the relief pitchers are the worst offenders. The come in knowing they are only going to throw 10-20 pitches, so they don't mind spending 30-50 seconds gearing up for each pitch. Game 7 of the 1960 World Series was a 10-9 thriller with 24 hits and 5 walks and it only took 2:36 to play. Game action, baserunners and fielders in motion, etc., is what baseball needs.
Good points throughout ... though I'm guessing that Game 7 in 1960 would have taken a bit longer if every between innings lasted 2 1/2 minutes for commercials. But yes, it still wouldn't have been like today's ridiculously slow games.
G6 is tomorrow and G7 potentially is Wednesday and I doubt I'll watch more than a couple innings of either because they'll just be too ponderous.
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Good points throughout ... though I'm guessing that Game 7 in 1960 would have taken a bit longer if every between innings lasted 2 1/2 minutes for commercials. But yes, it still wouldn't have been like today's ridiculously slow games.
G6 is tomorrow and G7 potentially is Wednesday and I doubt I'll watch more than a couple innings of either because they'll just be too ponderous.
Ponderous is a great word for these games.
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MLB is criticized for not doing anything. MLB does something. MLB is criticized for changing the game. MLB stops enforcing the new rules.
What did they do? Guess I missed it while I was waiting for the fellow to deliver the pitch.
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Good points throughout ... though I'm guessing that Game 7 in 1960 would have taken a bit longer if every between innings lasted 2 1/2 minutes for commercials. But yes, it still wouldn't have been like today's ridiculously slow games.
G6 is tomorrow and G7 potentially is Wednesday and I doubt I'll watch more than a couple innings of either because they'll just be too ponderous.
But I don't even think the time in between innings is the problem - gives me time to pee, take the dogs out, etc. I don't mind a three hour game if it actually has action. Hell, I watch college football regularly and those games can be three and half hours with commercial breaks all over the place. But DO SOMETHING when the action is supposed to be taking place.
That's why ponderous is the perfect word.
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Hey, congrats to the Braves. Time to start the 21-22 MLB thread :)
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Hey, congrats to the Braves. Time to start the 21-22 MLB thread :)
Incredible job by the Braves -- first, to save their season after their best player got hurt; then, to get hot at the absolutely perfect time.
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Incredible job by the Braves -- first, to save their season after their best player got hurt; then, to get hot at the absolutely perfect time.
Speaking of hot, former Cub Soler - who has had an ok career, but never been "the guy" finds himself as WS MVP. That may pay off going into his first FA year.
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I am very happy for the Braves. Congrats to a team that made great player moves and enjoyed great pitching with timely hitting
I worried our Astros felt they were DOA with Lance McCullers not making WS roster. Valdes and Garcia was not exactly Spahn and Sain and pray for rain. The longer the series the more your pitching gets exposed. Oh well 5 straight ALCS series, three AL pennants and 3 WS appearances, ....this has been a great run for me as a fan.
I guess this could be the last 2021 MLB post as I now segway to 2022 MLB thread and Astros have interesting Hot stove choices. Verlander, Grienke, and Correa are off the payroll and free up $80 mil gross for other signings. Otherwise, ...Almost all of the rest of this WS roster is signed and back for next year.
Astros wont do any $300mil 10yr deals. I expect Correa is gone. Astros must :
1) sign up all or most of the minor arm pen guys esp those we got at trade deadline; and
2)get 2 front line starters and
3) a SS replacement... the FA market has lots of SS avail
I expect Seattle will challenge Astros for 2022 AL west title, with Oakland slipping back, Angels will feature Trout, Ohtani and .500 ball and the Rangers will , well, show up.
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I wish they would bring back playing the World Series during the day at least on Saturday and Sunday.
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I am very happy for the Braves. Congrats to a team that made great player moves and enjoyed great pitching with timely hitting
I worried our Astros felt they were DOA with Lance McCullers not making WS roster. Valdes and Garcia was not exactly Spahn and Sain and pray for rain. The longer the series the more your pitching gets exposed. Oh well 5 straight ALCS series, three AL pennants and 3 WS appearances, ....this has been a great run for me as a fan.
I guess this could be the last 2021 MLB post as I now segway to 2022 MLB thread and Astros have interesting Hot stove choices. Verlander, Grienke, and Correa are off the payroll and free up $80 mil gross for other signings. Otherwise, ...Almost all of the rest of this WS roster is signed and back for next year.
Astros wont do any $300mil 10yr deals. I expect Correa is gone. Astros must :
1) sign up all or most of the minor arm pen guys esp those we got at trade deadline; and
2)get 2 front line starters and
3) a SS replacement... the FA market has lots of SS avail
I expect Seattle will challenge Astros for 2022 AL west title, with Oakland slipping back, Angels will feature Trout, Ohtani and .500 ball and the Rangers will , well, show up.
Hmm... that would be quite a story as they are the only team to never have played in a World Series.
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I wish they would bring back playing the World Series during the day at least on Saturday and Sunday.
That's just not going to happen - the ratings would be abysmal going up against college and NFL football. I do wish they would move up the starting pitch though. Baseball is the type of sport that people can tune in at the third inning and watch to the end.
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Hey, congrats to the Braves. Time to start the 21-22 MLB thread :)
it may be an interesting start if they don't resolve the next union contract soon.
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it may be an interesting start if they don't resolve the next union contract soon.
It seems to me that the players have no leverage though.
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Astros wont do any $300mil 10yr deals. I expect Correa is gone. Astros must :
1) sign up all or most of the minor arm pen guys esp those we got at trade deadline; and
2)get 2 front line starters and
3) a SS replacement... the FA market has lots of SS avail
They could just move Bregman back to SS as I imagine the 3B market is a bit softer than the SS right now
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Hmm... that would be quite a story as they are the only team to never have played in a World Series.
Whoa
I expect Seattle will challenge only for the Division title which does not translate to a league pennant or WS appearance …. As 2 out of 3 division winners can attest to every year
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Atlanta Braves, 88 wins, losing record at the All Star Break, World Series Champions. 15 different teams have won the World Series since 2000. 4 of the teams in that time frame, had 4 of the 5 all time worst winning percentages of a World Series Champion. Just 4 teams have won it multiple times in the 21st century.
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Buster Posey announces his retirement. The best national league catcher of his era and it’s not really close
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Buster Posey announces his retirement. The best national league catcher of his era and it’s not really close
How long until the Asian Carp flings himself into the boat?
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Buster Posey announces his retirement. The best national league catcher of his era and it’s not really close
Very underrated player and one of the best names in baseball. Just beats out Jason Kendall for your title, IMO.
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Buster Posey announces his retirement. The best national league catcher of his era and it’s not really close
Interesting. He had a heckofa final season, really seemed to have found the fountain of youth. He has more money than he or his kids or his grandkids or his great grandkids can spend, so good for him to go out on a high note.
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How long until the Asian Carp flings himself into the boat?
;D ;D hilarious
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Very underrated player and one of the best names in baseball. Just beats out Jason Kendall for your title, IMO.
This is Geovany Soto erasure.
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Interesting. He had a heckofa final season, really seemed to have found the fountain of youth. He has more money than he or his kids or his grandkids or his great grandkids can spend, so good for him to go out on a high note.
Yep good for him if that's what's best for him and his family, but really surprised to see him walk from $22MM. Especially in a year where the NL might get the DH and coming off a 100+ win season.
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This is Geovany Soto erasure.
Erasure was actually the term for Geo's performance during any postgame buffett
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Yep good for him if that's what's best for him and his family, but really surprised to see him walk from $22MM. Especially in a year where the NL might get the DH and coming off a 100+ win season.
Huge respect for Posey walking away from $22M if he wasn’t gonna be all-in.
Over the years, plenty of guys have mailed it in for less.
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LOL, the Braves victory parade is something.
https://twitter.com/thowedoffalil/status/1456681001594376200?s=20
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The Reds couldn't have gotten anything for Miley?
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The Reds couldn't have gotten anything for Miley?
Seems preposterous, no?
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The Reds couldn't have gotten anything for Miley?
I guess the Cubs grabbed him at waiver priority 7 - I'm realy surprised he made it that far. Just pick up his option and figure out what to do with him later.
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Couple of thoughts on qualifying offers/non-offers:
- A little surprised Brewers didn't extend an offer to Garcia. It only would've been a $6MM raise if he accepted, and still would have been a fair contract for his performance last year.
- CWS fans - does Rodon not receiving a QO make you think he might be more broken than just regular arm fatigue?
- I still expect Kershaw to be back with LAD, and wonder if not extending a QO was a gesture of good faith to let him see what he'd get on the market without the draft pick compensation attached.
- I think we're going to see a lot of players accept - Belt, Conforto, Iglesias, E-Rod, Syndergaard, Taylor and Verlander could all accept not only because a $18MM payday is good for players of that level, but as much because having the draft pick comp really really hurts their values on the open market.
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Couple of thoughts on qualifying offers/non-offers:
- A little surprised Brewers didn't extend an offer to Garcia. It only would've been a $6MM raise if he accepted, and still would have been a fair contract for his performance last year.
Brewers already have Yelich at $26M, Cain at $18M, and JBJ at $9.5M (probably as a fourth outfielder), so there was no chance that they were going to commit another $18.4M to Garcia.
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I didn’t think there was a chance the Sox were going to offer Rodon the QO. I don’t believe he’ll ever get a season in without needing a decent amount of time away for either an injury or recovery time.
I’ll be curious what he gets in free agency. Tying up $18 mil for 2022 with Rodon just didn’t add up.
I’m really surprised Chris Taylor got a QO. He should sprint to sign it.
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I must have missed the season where the Cardinals had the best defensive lineup of all time
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Brewers already have Yelich at $26M, Cain at $18M, and JBJ at $9.5M (probably as a fourth outfielder), so there was no chance that they were going to commit another $18.4M to Garcia.
Team construction-wise, that's probably right. Its just too bad because they were already committed for the $12M if Garcia didn't opt-out, the $18M wouldn't have been a dramatic overpay, and if he declined they would have gotten the pick. Contrasted with the Dodgers offering Taylor or the Angels offering Iglesias, it shows how the large market teams can absorb the risk that a player accepts the QO to steal a pick, becuase there is no such thing as a bad one year contract when your payroll is $175M.
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I found it interesting that of the six finalists for the AL and NL MVP awards (Vlad Jr., Ohtani, Semien, Harper, Soto, Tatis Jr.) exactly zero of them were on teams that made the playoffs. In fact, the Angels, Nats, and Padres all finished under .500.
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Team construction-wise, that's probably right. Its just too bad because they were already committed for the $12M if Garcia didn't opt-out, the $18M wouldn't have been a dramatic overpay, and if he declined they would have gotten the pick. Contrasted with the Dodgers offering Taylor or the Angels offering Iglesias, it shows how the large market teams can absorb the risk that a player accepts the QO to steal a pick, becuase there is no such thing as a bad one year contract when your payroll is $175M.
Brewers offseason will be really interesting. There's no doubt they're contenders, but they're overextended (judging exclusively by their historical payrolls, not Mark A's pockets). And yet, this is the deepest pitching roster they may have ever had, with very little chance of keeping any of their top guys long term (other than Peralta).
Will be interesting how they handle Haders 3 Arb year (which is still not projected to be unreasonable) and whether they deal from a position of strength to improve the offense.
They are also out from under the Cain and JBJ deals after this year, which could factor in.
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I found it interesting that of the six finalists for the AL and NL MVP awards (Vlad Jr., Ohtani, Semien, Harper, Soto, Tatis Jr.) exactly zero of them were on teams that made the playoffs. In fact, the Angels, Nats, and Padres all finished under .500.
Voters are allowed to define "value" as they see fit. Personally, I like the MVP to have played an outsized role for a team that at least was a serious contender for a postseason spot.
I think it is a very fair argument that an athlete competing for a contender faces much more pressure than one playing for a loser ... and if the contending team's athlete repeatedly produces to keep his team in contention, he should be rewarded for having done so. And for years, that was usually the case.
The last decade or so, more than not, MVP simply has gone to the guy with the best stats.
I'm not "outraged" by that, it's just not what I think the spirit of the award is.
I think Vlad had a great chance to take the AL award from Ohtani, who had a lock on it until he performed poorly the last two months. Unfortunately for Vlad, he didn't do much, either, and his team didn't make the playoffs. So I think it goes to Ohtani.
In the NL, 2 of the 3 nominees were on teams that at least contended right through the final week of the season.
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I must have missed the season where the Cardinals had the best defensive lineup of all time
+100.
Five gold glovers (and none of them named Molina?)!
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I must have missed the season where the Cardinals had the best defensive lineup of all time
The Yankees had a season several years back where they were second to last in the AL in Batting Average Against on ground balls, meaning they were the second worst team in the AL at turning ground balls into outs, and three fourths of their infield won GGs. Only A-Rod didn't get one (and he was probably their best defensive infielder). I think the three were Jeter, Cano and Teixeira.
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Voters are allowed to define "value" as they see fit. Personally, I like the MVP to have played an outsized role for a team that at least was a serious contender for a postseason spot.
I think it is a very fair argument that an athlete competing for a contender faces much more pressure than one playing for a loser ... and if the contending team's athlete repeatedly produces to keep his team in contention, he should be rewarded for having done so. And for years, that was usually the case.
I agree.
My guesses for this year? Harper and Ohtani.
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I agree.
My guesses for this year? Harper and Ohtani.
I think your guesses will turn out to be right.
Vlad had his chance to overtake Ohtani. If he was great in Sept and led Toronto into the playoffs, he'd have had a very good argument, especially as much as Ohtani had tailed off. Ohtani wasn't just non-MVP-ish the second half of the season, he actually was quite bad. But Vlad faded, too, so the award goes to the better "story." And there's no argument that Ohtani was a great story this season.
Harper looks like the best choice in a meh NL field. That, of course, is assuming Yadi turns it down! 8-)
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The Yankees had a season several years back where they were second to last in the AL in Batting Average Against on ground balls, meaning they were the second worst team in the AL at turning ground balls into outs, and three fourths of their infield won GGs. Only A-Rod didn't get one (and he was probably their best defensive infielder). I think the three were Jeter, Cano and Teixeira.
Pretty on par for the overrated defensive mystique of #2
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So....Satchel Paige is pretty great, hey?
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So....Satchel Paige is pretty great, hey?
At the time.
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So....Satchel Paige is pretty great, hey?
I'll let a jumbled sentence go.
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I'll let a jumbled sentence go.
Honestly, the jumbled sentence was more concerning to me than the slip of the tongue. I'm not hysterically screaming he's senile or calling him Sleepy, but he has a concerning amount of rambles, fumbles, and general word scramble when he's off script in front of a mic. Its not a stutter thing, its a neuron misfiring situation.
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Honestly, the jumbled sentence was more concerning to me than the slip of the tongue. I'm not hysterically screaming he's senile or calling him Sleepy, but he has a concerning amount of rambles, fumbles, and general word scramble when he's off script in front of a mic. Its not a stutter thing, its a neuron misfiring situation.
Lots of misfiring neurons here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE9BXkQ-SRc
But yes, it's concerning that we won't hire a president who is younger than Methuselah. Can't wait for the 82-year-old to take on the 78-year-old in 2024!
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RENT...FREE
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RENT...FREE
Back at ya.
Actually, I should start charging rent!
But how about baseball, eh? I'm not the one who changed the subject here.
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But how about baseball, eh? I'm not the one who changed the subject here.
But you never miss an opportunity to participate when someone else opens the door.
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But you never miss an opportunity to participate when someone else opens the door.
And you never miss an opportunity to play Scoop Police.
Rent free.
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Rent free.
Lame. I would implore you to be better, but I am not sure that's possible.
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It’s so nice to have the board police on active duty again. Too bad the offender’s comments aren’t written on paper so they could be burned.
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How 'bout that baseball, huh?
Yankees supposedly really want Seager and Toronto's Robbie Ray.
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Actually, it’s exactly a stutter thing.
Marquette has a Speech Pathology major. Didn't anyone here have any Speech Path friends in college? Maybe someone can start a Speech Pathology thread.
He began to say, “The great Negro Leagues pitcher Satchel Paige.” And then he rearranged his words.
As for baseball, I can recommend the Negro League Museum in Kansas City. It’s well worth people’s time.
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Honestly, the jumbled sentence was more concerning to me than the slip of the tongue. I'm not hysterically screaming he's senile or calling him Sleepy, but he has a concerning amount of rambles, fumbles, and general word scramble when he's off script in front of a mic. Its not a stutter thing, its a neuron misfiring situation.
Wow. Keep being you.
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It is exactly a stutter thing.
I wonder which shortstop Detroit goes after this winter. Correa could be a difference maker.
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It is exactly a stutter thing.
I wonder which shortstop Detroit goes after this winter. Correa could be a difference maker.
Do folks there think the Tigers can be legit contender in 2022? Had a pretty nice second half this season, right?
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2022 will be interesting. The Tigers had a horrific stretch in April into early May where they went 3-18. The rest of the season they went a very respectable 74-67. And they did it with a patched together starting rotation, 4 different starting catchers, never settling on a starting short stop and an erratic offense. AJ Hinch can coach.
Detroit started the offseason by getting the starting catcher they needed from Cinci. Barnhart will probably start 100 games. For the first time in forever, there are some minor league prospects that have Tiger fans salivating. Torkelson and Greene. I don't think Torkelson comes up until Miggy retires. Greene will probably be ready next year. But now Detroit will have a glut of young, fast outfielders. As well as utility infielders.
If Detroit gets Correa and 1-2 inning eating starting pitchers who don't blow out their arms by May, there is definitely the potential to win 85-88 games next year. If a couple of the young guys really take off, who knows?
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2022 will be interesting. The Tigers had a horrific stretch in April into early May where they went 3-18. The rest of the season they went a very respectable 74-67. And they did it with a patched together starting rotation, 4 different starting catchers, never settling on a starting short stop and an erratic offense. AJ Hinch can coach.
Detroit started the offseason by getting the starting catcher they needed from Cinci. Barnhart will probably start 100 games. For the first time in forever, there are some minor league prospects that have Tiger fans salivating. Torkelson and Greene. I don't think Torkelson comes up until Miggy retires. Greene will probably be ready next year. But now Detroit will have a glut of young, fast outfielders. As well as utility infielders.
If Detroit gets Correa and 1-2 inning eating starting pitchers who don't blow out their arms by May, there is definitely the potential to win 85-88 games next year. If a couple of the young guys really take off, who knows?
Good luck, my friend. Your sports landscape is long overdue for a few breaks!
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Wow. Keep being you.
I'm not even sure what that means, I'm sure its some lame assertion that I'm some MAGA Trumper or something, but given the source I won't stress it.
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MLB has gone from relatively underpaid team -controlled players busting the reserve clause with the help of their union and Marvin Miller to free agency only for some and ...
today, Scott Boras:
"Boras represents five of the eight men on the union's executive subcommittee: Zack Britton, Gerrit Cole, James Paxton, Max Scherzer and Marcus Semien, who switched his agency to Boras last month. Jason Castro, Francisco Lindor and Andrew Miller are the other members."
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32600372/agent-scott-boras-tanking-mlb-competitive-cancer-led-atlanta-braves-world-series-title
We are likely coming up on a lockout again... Time passes...
We are far removed from a Union guru like Marvin pursuing basic bargaining rights and we now have a rich players agent, Boras, speaking for their issues....or is Boras just a shill for the rich guys portion of the union?
Otta watchout ....1994 taught a lesson... the fans have little patience for millionaires battling billionaires.
Tanking and accumulating young cheap talent through the draft and early years contracts which are incredibly cheap is the logical result of the union favoring the veteran uber rich far too long at the expense of the young team-controlled talent (see Union exec committee roster ...for evidence of the wealthy rulers).
Look at just a portion of the 2021 Pre Arb Astros payroll:
Kyle Tucker 24 RF Pre-Arb $624,300
Yordan Alvarez 24 DH Pre-Arb $609,000
Jose Urquidy 26 SP Pre-Arb $604,200
Blake Taylor 25 RP Pre-Arb $599,100 -
Cristian Javier 24 SP Pre-Arb $620,400
Luis Garcia 24 RP Pre-Arb $580,100
Framber Valdez 27 SP Pre-Arb $637,300
Chas McCormick 26 OF Pre-Arb $570,500
Jake Meyers 25 OF Pre-Arb $570,500
Jose Siri 25 CF Arb 1 $570,500
Total...TEN MLB roster players at a TOTAL of say $6.5 mil...yet every one of these guys were Key 2021 and WS contributors. This TOTAL is 1/4th of the $26mil. amount we paid Altuve in 2021.
With Correa likely leaving the Astros (for a $300 Mil. payday) the team already has both a AAA shortstop (drafted in 2018) named Pena ready to go in for Correa (...on the $600k cheap), and a Cuban five tool shortstop (bonused in at $4 Mil.) and likely ready in 2022-3.
Instead of Boras complaining here over tanking and the rich contract dumping that goes on when they are expiring, the union needs next to improve the lot of the MLB newbies and encourage minor league increases, even if union doesn't represent the latter.
There are many haves and have nots within the same MLB players union. Marvin Miller would have been more atuned to this disparity issue ...he wasnt a rich players agent like Boras
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I'm not even sure what that means, I'm sure its some lame assertion that I'm some MAGA Trumper or something, but given the source I won't stress it.
I believe it’s more related to the fact that you seem to think you know everything. What expertise do you have to state as a fact that “it’s not a stuttering thing. It’s a neuron misfiring situation”? Some anecdote about your best friend’s college roommates sister?
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I believe it’s more related to the fact that you seem to think you know everything. What expertise do you have to state as a fact that “it’s not a stuttering thing. It’s a neuron misfiring situation”? Some anecdote about your best friend’s college roommates sister?
Wow. Just wow.
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I believe it’s more related to the fact that you seem to think you know everything. What expertise do you have to state as a fact that “it’s not a stuttering thing. It’s a neuron misfiring situation”? Some anecdote about your best friend’s college roommates sister?
You’re a smart man, ATL.
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You’re a smart man, ATL.
Atl and jockitch, 2 peas in a pod.
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Atl and jockitch, 2 peas in a pod.
Kinda like you and rocket brain. Twin brothers from different mothers.
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Wow. Just wow.
Let him answer the question. I think it’s more than a fair one.
After rereading the post I initially responded to, I think Wags was talking about 45 rather than 46 (or maybe not) so I am wondering where this diagnostic expertise has been for the last 5 years.
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Wow, I’m amazed that politics can even enter a baseball thread! Do we have no shame?
Back on the ranch, does anyone besides me find it amazing that the St. Louis Cardinals fired a manager who is a finalist for Manager of the Year? Yeah, I’m a die-hard Cardinals fan (yeup, in case you missed it Brother Newsie) but this one seems more than a bit weird.
I have no idea what happened in 2021 that would fire Schlidt but something major happened in the post-mortem on the season. I know they had bullpen problems and they didn’t hit well (nobody did last year), but this is extraordinary for a team that prides itself on stability.
Anyone with thoughts…?
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From what I’ve read, it had something to do with not embracing analytics fervently enough.
GMs and the front offices are exercising more control over their team’s on- field play than anytime in baseball’s history. They want the manager to be an extension of them.
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Wow, I’m amazed that politics can even enter a baseball thread! Do we have no shame?
Back on the ranch, does anyone besides me find it amazing that the St. Louis Cardinals fired a manager who is a finalist for Manager of the Year? Yeah, I’m a die-hard Cardinals fan (yeup, in case you missed it Brother Newsie) but this one seems more than a bit weird.
I have no idea what happened in 2021 that would fire Schlidt but something major happened in the post-mortem on the season. I know they had bullpen problems and they didn’t hit well (nobody did last year), but this is extraordinary for a team that prides itself on stability.
Anyone with thoughts…?
In St. Louis, one person rules the roost, Bill DeWitt Jr. He is a hands on owner as opposed to some that might not be. DeWitt and John Mozeliak are thick as thieves. They think alike.
Mike Shildt had made the playoffs in all of his three seasons. The team improved a lot with defense, base running fundamentals etc. Their improved situational hitting helped later in 2021. He had his share of flaws with decision making, lineups. So why was he fired?
Short answer is that Shildt overplayed his hand when it comes to power and decision making.
Getting on the bad side of either DeWitt or Mo will get you gone quick. That's how it works there for better or worse. Dewitt will approve the Mo decision. It didn't have anything to do with on field matters. And there isn't some big secret off the field issue with Shildt. Shildt spent 18 years there. It was an unexpected post season decision. He was fired over the phone, and, he was absolutely positively stunned he was being fired. He said and did all of the right things afterwards. Everyone has a line that you fon't cross. And Shildt crossed Mo and DeWitt's line.
More specifically, the hitting coach, aggessiveness with wanting outside the organization help with pitching during the season sooner, some analytics, although he enbraced some of it, more than you'd think. There were contract extension discussions. Shildt was tough on some staff. He underestimated the value of getting on Mo's bad side and overestimated his power and value with DeWitt.
Oli Marmol is very close with Shildt. Shildt scouted him, and Shildt was his mentor. Marmol gets along with everyone, from the top down to the bottom up. He is a collaborative commuincator popular with all departments and players, and he is modern era friendly too. The days of power managers are more a thing of the past more often these days.
Even TLR knew when to push and when to back down in upper management discussions.
Not much at all will change with Marmol, from a staff standpoint. Obviously they needed to hire a new bench coach, Oli's job, so they hired Skip Schumacher, another very popular player, coach with the players and all of the organization.
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Let him answer the question. I think it’s more than a fair one.
After rereading the post I initially responded to, I think Wags was talking about 45 rather than 46 (or maybe not) so I am wondering where this diagnostic expertise has been for the last 5 years.
Of all the people to call a know it all in this thread, or this board, I'm truly baffled that I'm the one broadly painted with that brush :o
FWIW, I meant the direct incident with the President in question. I'm not denying that he has, or overcame, a stutter. But at the same time he's nearly an 80 year old man in one of the highest stress roles in the world. I don't think its demeaning or disrespectful to have some concern about it and I don't believe that every time he falters speaking its just "oh its only a stutter". Same with his predecessor. Like mentioned earlier, its concerning that its a parade of senior citizens for the role, regardless of affiliation.
But I'm so sorry that you're offended by my anecdotes. I'll DM you the next time I have a personal experience I want to share in a thread. Hopefully they pass your scrutiny. As for Jockey, we know he has absolutely no problem know-it-alls provided they agree with him
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Of all the people to call a know it all in this thread, or this board, I'm truly baffled that I'm the one broadly painted with that brush :o
FWIW, I meant the direct incident with the President in question. I'm not denying that he has, or overcame, a stutter. But at the same time he's nearly an 80 year old man in one of the highest stress roles in the world. I don't think its demeaning or disrespectful to have some concern about it and I don't believe that every time he falters speaking its just "oh its only a stutter". Same with his predecessor. Like mentioned earlier, its concerning that its a parade of senior citizens for the role, regardless of affiliation.
But I'm so sorry that you're offended by my anecdotes. I'll DM you the next time I have a personal experience I want to share in a thread. Hopefully they pass your scrutiny. As for Jockey, we know he has absolutely no problem know-it-alls provided they agree with him
I’m glad you responded. It’s fair that you have concerns stated above and I was trying (badly apparently) to add some subtle humor suggesting you were actually referring to 45.
I am not offended by your anecdotes although I will admit that I do sometimes wonder how you seemingly have one for virtually every topic on here. If you want to clear them first that’s cool ;D
Lastly, I actually think you are among the best posters here. You obviously have a ton of knowledge and your posts in threads like the investment thread are must-reads for me. I just didn’t think your post was appropriate in this case and reacted badly which I tend to do.
All my way of saying my apologies.
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I’m glad you responded. It’s fair that you have concerns stated above and I was trying (badly apparently) to add some subtle humor suggesting you were actually referring to 45.
I am not offended by your anecdotes although I will admit that I do sometimes wonder how you seemingly have one for virtually every topic on here. If you want to clear them first that’s cool ;D
Lastly, I actually think you are among the best posters here. You obviously have a ton of knowledge and your posts in threads like the investment thread are must-reads for me. I just didn’t think your post was appropriate in this case and reacted badly which I tend to do.
All my way of saying my apologies.
All good my man. Scoop can be the Wild Wild West. Appreciate the words. I can see how the original statement came across poorly or insultingly. As with written text, sometimes it happens, my intent was certainly not that.
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Brothers Shoot and Jockey:
Thank you, I appreciate your insight. Shoot, I’m sure you are right and it makes all the sense in the world.
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Eduardo Rodriguez gets five (!!!) years, $80 million from Detroit.
I’m speechless.
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Eduardo Rodriguez gets five (!!!) years, $80 million from Detroit.
I’m speechless.
Apparently they thought this was the 2019 offseason?
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His advanced numbers were really quality.
But that’s still a lot of money and years to a guy who hasn’t put it all together and has a damn heart condition
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It's all funny money. Just about nothing surprises me anymore.
I mean, the Panthers gave Darnold $19M sight unseen for next season, and he was the worst QB in the NFL.
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It's all funny money. Just about nothing surprises me anymore.
I mean, the Panthers gave Darnold $19M sight unseen for next season, and he was the worst QB in the NFL.
The only difference, I suppose, is that in the NFL there's at least some semblance of a finite payroll due to the salary cap. Theoretically, in MLB, the ownership group can absorb whatever salaries they feel like paying. The only finite resource MLB owners have to worry about is their tolerance for reduced profit margins.
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Detroit can afford it. Other than Miggy, no huge contracts on the books. I look for them to sign one of the big money FA shortstops and then get ready for spring training.
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The only difference, I suppose, is that in the NFL there's at least some semblance of a finite payroll due to the salary cap. Theoretically, in MLB, the ownership group can absorb whatever salaries they feel like paying. The only finite resource MLB owners have to worry about is their tolerance for reduced profit margins.
All true. Good points.
Back in 1976, Wayne Garland signed a 10-year, $2.3 million contract and I remember thinking, "This is madness and it can't go on. If this continues, baseball will be dead by 1980!"
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His advanced numbers were really quality.
But that’s still a lot of money and years to a guy who hasn’t put it all together and has a damn heart condition
He's really good and the Tigers will be happy with him. The Red Sox defense is awful and going from Fenway to Detroit will help. He's going to surprise. I trust him more in a big game than Chris Sale.
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The money wasn't a huge surprise as that is the going rate for a career league average pitcher.
What surprised me was the length of the contract and the fact that it was done before the new CBA.
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Berrios 7 (!!!!!!) years with Jays, $140 million.
This is Bizarro World.
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Syndergaard gets 1 year, $21MM from the Angels. Not a bad welcome back from major surgery
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Berrios 7 (!!!!!!) years with Jays, $140 million.
This is Bizarro World.
I must be crazy, but this doens't seem outlandish at all to me. Berrios is a really good pitcher, and by today's standards kind of a workhorse. He is relatively young and would command more than 20M per season on the free agent market I would think.
If you take out his disastrous rookie season, he has a 3.74 ERA, a 1.17 WHIP, 3.79 FIP and better than a K per inning. He has also thrown over 190 innings the last 3 full seasons.
As a Sox fan, I'd take him on this deal, and I'd love to get Giolito on something similar (maybe not a perfect comp, but I think pretty reasonable). 7 years is a lot, and it buys out one arb year, so what I saw was the extension is actually 6/120 and 11 for this year for a total of 7/131 with that one arb year (mlbtraderumors).
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Anyone giving Andrew Heaney a contract is crazy.
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Syndergaard gets 1 year, $21MM from the Angels. Not a bad welcome back from major surgery
I actually think this is the worst contract handed out so far. Losing a draft pick for a one year deal that is wishing on an injury bounceback is just awful work.
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I actually think this is the worst contract handed out so far. Losing a draft pick for a one year deal that is wishing on an injury bounceback is just awful work.
Completely agree. Everything about this signing screams desperation. Signing him for one year, at that dollar amount, with major injury risk, while losing a draft pick is bad business.
If they gave him two years, I could see it. If you’re the Angels, you might as well get every pitch possible out of his arm. I honestly don’t see how this helps Syndergard long term.
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When I heard the Angels signed Syndergaard, my first thought was it must be a low-guarantee, high-incentive, low-risk, high-reward contract.
Then I heard it was $21M and I couldn't stop laughing.
No wonder that organization has wandered in the wilderness for years.
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Nightengale, who is wrong 97% of the time on all MLB stuff, but seems right 50% of the time on White Sox related things, is saying the Sox are in on Verlander.
I don't hate the idea of it, but also really need to know how healthy he is, and of course numbers/years. Hypothetically if they did one year, $16 million, I think I'd be fine with it. But this pitching market has been wacky so far, so who knows.
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Nightengale, who is wrong 97% of the time on all MLB stuff, but seems right 50% of the time on White Sox related things, is saying the Sox are in on Verlander.
I don't hate the idea of it, but also really need to know how healthy he is, and of course numbers/years. Hypothetically if they did one year, $16 million, I think I'd be fine with it. But this pitching market has been wacky so far, so who knows.
I believe that is less than his Astros one year qualifying offer
Justin is more likely to first shop for 2-3 years deals If none he will stay here for a year versus a pay cut one year deal with y’all
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I believe that is less than his Astros one year qualifying offer
Justin is more likely to first shop for 2-3 years deals If none he will stay here for a year versus a pay cut one year deal with y’all
Ahh, you’re right, I forgot he got a QO.
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2/50 back to the Astors (1/25 with a player option for the same).
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Burnes the Cy Young winner.
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Verlander is a good signing Correa is gone
Pena will move up from AAA to SS
We have to sign some arm pen guys and maybe get in early on long terms for Kyle Tucker ( like we did w/ Bergman) and on Framber Valdez
Yuli Gurriel and Brantley may get 2022 extensions at current k levels
In FA. We may still get a second tier SP or journey man SS on short deals to cover us Everyone else is signed up
Overall this will still give Astros roster a good shot at playoffs and WS at least through 2022
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Burnes the Cy Young winner.
Guess that makes me 3/3 on my Brewers bets this year. Who was super cool dude who suggested Burnes at the beginning of this year? I owe them a beer.
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Guess that makes me 3/3 on my Brewers bets this year. Who was super cool dude who suggested Burnes at the beginning of this year? I owe them a beer.
You are obviously referring to me. I thank you for the kudos.
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You are obviously referring to me. I thank you for the kudos.
(https://i.imgur.com/9CSWeNf.gif)
Guess that means I gotta lay off for a couple of months.
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Months.... minutes...
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Kendall Graveman signing three-year deal with the White Sox.
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Kendall Graveman signing three-year deal with the White Sox.
I love it, I had hoped they’d go after him, and like this deal. I don’t know if this means Tepera is gone (probably), but I like this move a lot.
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I love it, I had hoped they’d go after him, and like this deal. I don’t know if this means Tepera is gone (probably), but I like this move a lot.
Hoping they can deal Kimbrel. And I assume this also helps nudge Kopech into the rotation.
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Hoping they can deal Kimbrel. And I assume this also helps nudge Kopech into the rotation.
I wouldn’t mind a Keuchel opener with Kopech coming in after. I think it solves two problems. They have to keep Keuchel under 160 IP so his $20 mil 2023 option doesn’t vest, and then extends out Kopech in those same games. Maybe it’s better just to have Kopech start games fresh, but just an idea I had.
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Hoping they can deal Kimbrel. And I assume this also helps nudge Kopech into the rotation.
Virtually guarantees the Sox will move Kimbrel.