WOJO HAS TO GOJO

[Tennessee Ernie Ford]

Buzz had 13 NCAA wins in 6 seasons.  Here we are justifying a coach on the prospect of maybe winning 1 game in 8 seasons.  Honest question: has any coach since 1980 ever won consistently after not doing so for seven consecutive seasons?

[rocky_warrior]

Buzz had 13 NCAA wins in 6 seasons.  Here we are justifying a coach on the prospect of maybe winning 1 game in 8 seasons.  Honest question: has any coach since 1980 ever won consistently after not doing so for seven consecutive seasons?

You see, I'll be called a ProJo for this, but you can't actually blame Wojo (or Markus) for not winning any NCAA games last year.  FWIW, 1 game in 7 seasons is still possible though... 

Last nights game was disappointing.  But I expect Marquette to get better as the year goes on.  The question is whether they peak mid-season (as we've seen from Wojo) or keep going from there.

I'll keep watching the games to find out.  Wojo won't be fired even if things are horrible still in the middle of the season.  Why keep bitching, just try to enjoy what we've got.

[Tennessee Ernie Ford]

Rocky, I'll continue to try and enjoy what we've got (I was optimistic thru Monday) and I understand that Steve will likely not be fired, but this mediocrity  should not be tolerated by the administration and we as a fan base can choose to accept it or strive for something greater, by making noise about our unhappiness.

[rocky_warrior]

Rocky, I'll continue to try and enjoy what we've got (I was optimistic thru Monday) and I understand that Steve will likely not be fired, but this mediocrity  should not be tolerated by the administration and we as a fan base can choose to accept it or strive for something greater, by making noise about our unhappiness.

Fair.  But just so everyone knows, the MU administration generally doesn't follow MUScoop

[Tennessee Ernie Ford]

Fair.  But just so everyone knows, the MU administration generally doesn't follow MUScoop

Don't see yourself short

[Lennys Tap]

Apathy has set in for many of us. Been a fan for over 50 years and even during down times I always had the energy and desire to care about the program. Going into the Badger game has always been a fun time of year and trying my best to get jacked for the game.

Goose

The Dukiet era was depression followed by apathy and embarrassment. An all time low.

The Wojo era has enough teases (recruiting successes, a big win here or a nice streak there) to save me from those dark places. That said, unless there is a major turn I'm resigned to the fact that the best we can hope for under Wojo is a middling up and down program. His experienced teams will be average to above average, his inexperienced ones average to below average. This is year 8, and we've never finished in Pomeroy's top 30 under Wojo. That, plus the fact that he looks good in a blue blazer and never says anything controversial (or interesting, IMO) is enough for the ProJos. Some may even be still clinging to that "Duke North" nonsense. I'd love for them to be right but 7+ years of data says differently.

[MU82]

Woe IS us.  Look what our alma mater has allowed this program to become!  Perennially average.  Enjoy living out the rest of your days in "others receiving votes"...

I am going to enjoy living out the rest of my days (lots of them, I hope) surrounded by family and friends and fun.

[5DollarPitcher]

I am going to enjoy living out the rest of my days (lots of them, I hope) surrounded by family and friends and fun.

My goodness what a sap. It was a figure of speech akin to your own call to Kevorkian. Read your own posts.

[Billy Hoyle]

MU moved the ball great against the Pine Bluff zone.   Stood still against OK St.   The difference was the length of the defenders.   Give credit to the D.

elite HS teams like  Bishop Gorman, Sierra Canyon, or Montverde could move the ball against UAPB's zone. I need something better than that.

[MU82]

My goodness what a sap. It was a figure of speech akin to your own call to Kevorkian. Read your own posts.

We are doomed! Doomed, I say!

[dad's couch]

Buzz had 13 NCAA wins in 6 seasons.  Here we are justifying a coach on the prospect of maybe winning 1 game in 8 seasons.  Honest question: has any coach since 1980 ever won consistently after not doing so for seven consecutive seasons?

Leonard Hamilton at Florida St. Grant has one good year at Dayton with an unknown tournament run last year. He hasn't won a tournament game in the 8 years at Alabama and Dayton with only 1 appearance prior to last season. Jay Wright had a tough six year stretch between Final Four appearances. Matt Painter also had a tough six years between Sweet 16 appearances.

Ben Howland forgot to coach after leading UCLA to three consecutive Final Fours. He only won 2 more tournament games in 3 appearances in the five years that followed at UCLA. And only one appearance with zero wins in five seasons at Mississippi St. Two tournament wins in 10 seasons after 3 consecutive Final Fours.

Altman only won 2 tournament games in 18 seasons at Creighton (16) and Oregon (2). He then had a Sweet 16, an Elite 8 and a Final Four in the next 5 seasons. McDermott only has 2 tournament wins in 9 years at Creighton and Cooley only 1 in the 8 years at Providence. It took 8 seasons for Willard to win a tournament game. His only win in 9 seasons (not including last year).

[AZMarqfan]

Buzz had 13 NCAA wins in 6 seasons.  Here we are justifying a coach on the prospect of maybe winning 1 game in 8 seasons.

Clearly not a fair comparison.  Buzz took over with Matthews, McNeal, James, Hayward, and Butler on that team.  Yes, he recruited some of them, but his being an assistant helped keep the program together.  When Buzz left, the cupboard was bare.  And given the current state of players leaving programs, it took years to build the culture that Wojo truly wants.  There's no excuse for the lack of postseason success.  We finally have some players reaching senior year that have been under Wojo for 4-5 years, battled, learned to embrace his culture, and are passing it along to younger guys.  We also finally have the depth to have allowed us to use effective redshirts in recent years with Anim and Akanno. 

[DoctorV]

I love reading and talking college hoops, especially MU hoops, but I can't believe you guys and gals have got the energy to bang on this Wojo drum over and over, it's impressive.

As for the game, that was some very poor basketball. Let's hope for a rebound on Friday because the early season schedule is brutal.

As for Wojo I'll say one thing- if this years version doesn't get better as the season goes on, both individually for many of the key pieces and collectively as a team, and they miss out on the dance, I can see an argument for moving on.

Logistically speaking, it seems like a pretty good time to do so imo- in that scenario you'd have a good frosh turning soph class (I include Carton here even though he will be a jr next season) that would hopefully stay and an average instead of great incoming class. Even with a few transfers/decommits seems like a good time to make a change that hopefully won't be needed

[5DollarPitcher]

Logistically speaking, it seems like a pretty good time to do so imo- in that scenario you'd have a good frosh turning soph class (I include Carton here even though he will be a jr next season) that would hopefully stay and an average instead of great incoming class. Even with a few transfers/decommits seems like a good time to make a change that hopefully won't be needed

Careful - the usual suspects will remind you that we are guaranteed to see 15 transfers out and lose the entire business school staff if Wojo were dismissed.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Passed up on several golden opportunities to fire him. If only someone had been saying this since 2017...

What golden opportunities are you referring to? Wojo has unquestionably preformed well enough every year not to get fired.

Fans may not like it, but there is a space between "good enough to inspire confidence" and "bad enough to fire." Unfortunately for us sorry louts, Wojo has set up camp in that space and past evidence suggests that he ain't moving in either direction.

I don't fault anyone who has seen enough of Wojo and has concluded that he will never get us to the next level. I'm closer to he won't get it done then he will at the moment. But the reality is, other than the top 10 or so programs in the country, Wojo could have had the exact same results, and he would still be employed at any other program.

And again, while I understand why people are pessimistic about the team moving forward...It was an 8 point loss in the third game of the season to a good (not great) high-major team. We have seen Wojo coached teams take much worse early season losses and then turn around to make the dance anyway. Let's not throw the season on the meat wagon quite yet.

[1SE]

Goose

The Dukiet era was depression followed by apathy and embarrassment. An all time low.

The Wojo era has enough teases (recruiting successes, a big win here or a nice streak there) to save me from those dark places. That said, unless there is a major turn I'm resigned to the fact that the best we can hope for under Wojo is a middling up and down program. His experienced teams will be average to above average, his inexperienced ones average to below average. This is year 8, and we've never finished in Pomeroy's top 30 under Wojo. That, plus the fact that he looks good in a blue blazer and never says anything controversial (or interesting, IMO) is enough for the ProJos. Some may even be still clinging to that "Duke North" nonsense. I'd love for them to be right but 7+ years of data says differently.

Yep. It's not where you start, it's where you finish.

Like Jose, Wojo is getting a free year this year. But if he doesn't do something with it next year should be his last.

[#UnleashSean]

How many people will continue to go through with the same "cupboard bare" scenario. ITS YEAR 7.

[4everwarriors]

I am going to enjoy living out the rest of my days (lots of them, I hope) surrounded by family and friends and fun.

Someone's singing, Lord, kumbaya. Or Someone's crying, Lord, kumbaya. Or Someone's praying Lord, kumbaya, hey?

[#UnleashSean]

Passed up on several golden opportunities to fire him. If only someone had been saying this since 2017...

Get off your high horse, I've been saying to let him go since our lose to Omaha southwestern central or whatever it was.

[4everwarriors]

Sew y'all wanna give Wojo da heave ho, hey?

[Hards Alumni]

What golden opportunities are you referring to? Wojo has unquestionably preformed well enough every year not to get fired.

Fans may not like it, but there is a space between "good enough to inspire confidence" and "bad enough to fire." Unfortunately for us sorry louts, Wojo has set up camp in that space and past evidence suggests that he ain't moving in either direction.

I don't fault anyone who has seen enough of Wojo and has concluded that he will never get us to the next level. I'm closer to he won't get it done then he will at the moment. But the reality is, other than the top 10 or so programs in the country, Wojo could have had the exact same results, and he would still be employed at any other program.

And again, while I understand why people are pessimistic about the team moving forward...It was an 8 point loss in the third game of the season to a good (not great) high-major team. We have seen Wojo coached teams take much worse early season losses and then turn around to make the dance anyway. Let's not throw the season on the meat wagon quite yet.

It wasn't that the loss happened, it was how inept and unprepared the team looked that has a lot of people rankled. 

I think the real problem is the lack of post season last year, and the low expectations setting in for this year.  We all feel like we should be in the tournament every year... and when we get there, we win a game or two sometimes.  Instead we miss the tourney or we get our doors blown off when we get there.

It's awful hard to be a basketball only school when you're bad at basketball.

[panda]

It wasn't that the loss happened, it was how inept and unprepared the team looked that has a lot of people rankled. 

I think the real problem is the lack of post season last year, and the low expectations setting in for this year.  We all feel like we should be in the tournament every year... and when we get there, we win a game or two sometimes.  Instead we miss the tourney or we get our doors blown off when we get there.

It's awful hard to be a basketball only school when you're bad at basketball.

The sign of a good program  and coach is quickly bouncing back after an underachieving season. Mediocrity is a problem when it begins to become a pattern.

[jesmu84]

It wasn't that the loss happened, it was how inept and unprepared the team looked that has a lot of people rankled. 

I think the real problem is the lack of post season last year, and the low expectations setting in for this year.  We all feel like we should be in the tournament every year... and when we get there, we win a game or two sometimes.  Instead we miss the tourney or we get our doors blown off when we get there.

It's awful hard to be a basketball only school when you're bad at basketball.

Reminds me a lot of my time at MU when Crean was there post Wade

[#UnleashSean]

The sign of a good program  and coach is quickly bouncing back after an underachieving season. Mediocrity is a problem when it begins to become a pattern.

Ohhhhhhhh its been a pattern. Even if some on here are wearing blinders.

[The Sultan]

It wasn't that the loss happened, it was how inept and unprepared the team looked that has a lot of people rankled. 

I think the real problem is the lack of post season last year, and the low expectations setting in for this year.  We all feel like we should be in the tournament every year... and when we get there, we win a game or two sometimes.  Instead we miss the tourney or we get our doors blown off when we get there.

It's awful hard to be a basketball only school when you're bad at basketball.

I actually don't think our fanbase expects a lot.  I think Kevin O'Neill type success would make people happy.  Most MU fans would be fine with down years if they had confidence in the coach to get them back.  But under Wojo, "next year" never seems to come.