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Author Topic: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?  (Read 2867 times)

tower912

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Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« on: October 13, 2020, 08:40:37 PM »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

BLM

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2020, 08:41:44 PM »
https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/report-ncaa-division-i-council-has-made-decision-on-extra-eligibility-for-winter-sports-student-athletes/

This should lead to some interesting discussions.   

Bring back Markus!

(ducks and runs away)

Lose lose for MU. Cancel the season because of covid, or cancel the season because Markus is too hard to play with so we couldn’t field a team of 5.
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Heisenberg v2.0

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2020, 08:51:44 PM »
Just for discussion purposes ...

Markus finished with 2,761 points (#21 all-time D1 college basketball)

If he came back, Maravich's all-time points record of 3,667 points is 906 points away.

Assuming 30 game season, he would have to average 30 points/game to break the record.

Second place is Portland State's Freeman Williams (1974 to 1978) with 3249 points.  That is 488 points away, or 16 points/game (again assuming 30 games).

Second place would make him the highest career scoring college player in 40+ years.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 08:54:00 PM by Heisenberg v2.0 »

GooooMarquette

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2020, 08:58:24 PM »
The way I read it the description, it will apply only to people coming into this season, not to athletes who have already used up their eligibility.

Probably based on the assumption that there will be risk and disruption playing this coming season.

MU82

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2020, 10:59:25 PM »
Markus can't come back.

The provision would be for coronavirus, not cancer.
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JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2020, 08:23:06 AM »
The way I read it the description, it will apply only to people coming into this season, not to athletes who have already used up their eligibility.

Probably based on the assumption that there will be risk and disruption playing this coming season.

This. And unfortunately our senior class isn’t exactly star studded.
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2020, 08:30:45 AM »
This. And unfortunately our senior class isn’t exactly star studded.

Give Theo a fifth year and maybe he could make it through 40min without fouling out.

Boone

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2020, 08:46:02 AM »
We're having a difficult enough time recruiting a big as is. Having John around for a 5th year will all but close the books on the Holmes and Aidoo recruitments

Its DJOver

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2020, 08:52:31 AM »
We're having a difficult enough time recruiting a big as is. Having John around for a 5th year will all but close the books on the Holmes and Aidoo recruitments

Teal?

dgies9156

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2020, 08:54:33 AM »
Look, Markus is a great guy and huge asset to our program. But it is time to move on.

For better or worse, we need to develop what we have. Let Carton and Koby take the helm. Learn to distribute and get our four star/Burger Boy wings fully engaged.

We have a great opportunity to see what we have, beginning with the Coach. Either we make it or not but bringing Markus back at this point would be a disaster.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2020, 08:57:44 AM »
Look, Markus is a great guy and huge asset to our program. But it is time to move on.

For better or worse, we need to develop what we have. Let Carton and Koby take the helm. Learn to distribute and get our four star/Burger Boy wings fully engaged.

We have a great opportunity to see what we have, beginning with the Coach. Either we make it or not but bringing Markus back at this point would be a disaster.


Cmon people.  tower's comment was in teal and Heisey is just doing what Heisey does.

Markus can't come back.  The rule doesn't cover him.  He's already signed with an agent anyway.
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jficke13

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2020, 09:06:21 AM »
I wonder if the thing that is the biggest knock-on effect of a 5th year of eligibility granted across the board is an explosion of grad transfers.

tower912

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2020, 09:35:00 AM »
I know Markus can't come back.   Hence the teal.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

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bilsu

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2020, 09:48:41 AM »
I wonder if the thing that is the biggest knock-on effect of a 5th year of eligibility granted across the board is an explosion of grad transfers.
The biggest thing is how they handle the scholarship limit. The NCAA would at least temporarily allow more than 13 scholarships.

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2020, 10:50:53 AM »
The biggest thing is how they handle the scholarship limit. The NCAA would at least temporarily allow more than 13 scholarships.

Probably only for teams that have guys returning get the extra spots. 

IE - lets say Theo and Jamal decide to return for a 5th year, and Koby decides to move on.

Marquette then has 15 scholarships for 2021-22 season, not 13. 

Only way to keep the grad transfers in check. 
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

TallTitan34

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2020, 11:43:14 AM »
RETIRE 0!

SaveOD238

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2020, 11:44:06 AM »
I wonder if the thing that is the biggest knock-on effect of a 5th year of eligibility granted across the board is an explosion of grad transfers.

Every Ivy League senior will be grad transfer eligible.  The don't allow players to stay for a 5th year or play in grad school. 

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2020, 11:54:52 AM »
Probably only for teams that have guys returning get the extra spots. 

IE - lets say Theo and Jamal decide to return for a 5th year, and Koby decides to move on.

Marquette then has 15 scholarships for 2021-22 season, not 13. 

Only way to keep the grad transfers in check. 

Or a say Jamal or Theo graduate. Marquette could simply move on as well. It’s a mutual decision.
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jesmu84

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2020, 02:16:14 PM »
Markus can't come back.

The provision would be for coronavirus, not cancer.

This was good

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2020, 11:44:11 AM »
Sounds like this a done deal per Goodman.

Guys who stay with their team don't count against scholarship for their 5th year.  If you transfer, it WOULD count against the new schools 13 scholarships.

Will still see a ton of grad transfers.

Seeing as how thin we are up front, Theo staying for a 5th year would certainly be a welcome addition. 
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

BLM

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2020, 11:49:02 AM »
So even if we get a full season in and the player plays a full season, they get an extra year of eligibility? Is it just seniors, or could every player currently in college get an extra year of eligibility (like last year’s spring student athletes)?
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JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2020, 12:01:06 PM »
So even if we get a full season in and the player plays a full season, they get an extra year of eligibility? Is it just seniors, or could every player currently in college get an extra year of eligibility (like last year’s spring student athletes)?

Sounds like just seniors to me. 
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2020, 12:10:27 PM »
Sounds like just seniors to me. 

No I don't think so.  I think it's everyone.
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panda

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2020, 12:36:44 PM »
No I don't think so.  I think it's everyone.

Graduating seniors will be granted a free waiver.

It sounds like the NCAA will be amending it’s transfer with out rule to a one time “free” transfer for all players.

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2020, 01:54:43 PM »
No I don't think so.  I think it's everyone.

Where do you see that? 
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2020, 01:56:44 PM »
Where do you see that? 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/10/14/ncaa-winter-sports-extra-eligibility/

"For fall sports, seniors who return for an extra season during the 2021-22 academic year will not count toward the team’s scholarship limit. However, in the years that follow, schools cannot exceed the limit, even though athletes on the team still would be allowed extra eligibility. In those cases, if schools choose to let athletes use their extra season of eligibility, it would effectively take away that scholarship from incoming recruits. The Division I Council’s announcement did not specify whether those same rules would be applied for winter sports."


Logically, there is no reason to comment on years after 2021-22 if this only applied to seniors. 
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BLM

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2020, 02:07:48 PM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/10/14/ncaa-winter-sports-extra-eligibility/

"For fall sports, seniors who return for an extra season during the 2021-22 academic year will not count toward the team’s scholarship limit. However, in the years that follow, schools cannot exceed the limit, even though athletes on the team still would be allowed extra eligibility. In those cases, if schools choose to let athletes use their extra season of eligibility, it would effectively take away that scholarship from incoming recruits. The Division I Council’s announcement did not specify whether those same rules would be applied for winter sports."


Logically, there is no reason to comment on years after 2021-22 if this only applied to seniors.

And I believe it was the same for the spring 2020 season, although that was a different situation in that their seasons were fully shut down.  But I can't imagine they'd offer an extra year of eligibility to all classes for fall and spring, and then only to seniors for winter.

Theo playing this season and then being back for the 2021-2022 season would be nice.
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JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2020, 05:06:16 PM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/10/14/ncaa-winter-sports-extra-eligibility/

"For fall sports, seniors who return for an extra season during the 2021-22 academic year will not count toward the team’s scholarship limit. However, in the years that follow, schools cannot exceed the limit, even though athletes on the team still would be allowed extra eligibility. In those cases, if schools choose to let athletes use their extra season of eligibility, it would effectively take away that scholarship from incoming recruits. The Division I Council’s announcement did not specify whether those same rules would be applied for winter sports."


Logically, there is no reason to comment on years after 2021-22 if this only applied to seniors.

Thanks.  Helpful.

So basically all college athletes get an extra year, but that will require a team making space for them in the scholership count following 21-22 season.  Nice little perk I suppose with a younger roster. 
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

bilsu

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2020, 06:30:14 PM »
No I don't think so.  I think it's everyone.
This is the way I took it. Basically, they said they were going to grant the extra year now, so players do not redshirt, because the season might go in the tank.

MU82

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2020, 07:03:50 PM »
So this means we get one more year out of Wade, right?
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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2020, 07:08:19 PM »
O'tule can finally come back for his tenth season.
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Galway Eagle

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2020, 09:45:40 PM »
O'tule can finally come back for his tenth season.

We call him Professor O'tule at this point right?

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2020, 09:26:01 AM »
So this means we get one more year out of Wade, right?


It's possible he may have signed with an agent at some point. Could someone check this?

lawdog77

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2020, 09:31:12 AM »
Since we are thin upfront, Jim Chones is available?

bilsu

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2020, 10:30:49 AM »
Should Perez immediately apply for a waiver to play this season? It seems to me it would be a mistake to redshirt as he had planned to.

BLM

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2020, 10:32:31 AM »
Should Perez immediately apply for a waiver to play this season? It seems to me it would be a mistake to redshirt as he had planned to.

Good point.
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JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2020, 10:36:28 AM »
Should Perez immediately apply for a waiver to play this season? It seems to me it would be a mistake to redshirt as he had planned to.

Thought process being that he could play out his 2 years, and then get a the extra Covid year, as opposed to sitting this one out and then playing out his last 2 years?

Are we sure that if he redshirts this year, we won't be eligible for the extra year anyway?

If a guy is currently a 5th year senior, I would assume that 5th senior isn't exempt from the new covid eligibility rule, so not sure why Perez would be any different (other than he would count towards the 13 scholarships in his 5th year of play). 
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

bilsu

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2020, 08:30:39 AM »
Thought process being that he could play out his 2 years, and then get a the extra Covid year, as opposed to sitting this one out and then playing out his last 2 years?

Are we sure that if he redshirts this year, we won't be eligible for the extra year anyway?

If a guy is currently a 5th year senior, I would assume that 5th senior isn't exempt from the new covid eligibility rule, so not sure why Perez would be any different (other than he would count towards the 13 scholarships in his 5th year of play).

I do not know for sure. However, they said the reason why they were making the decision now was so players did not decide to redshirt because they were afraid the season would be shorten. It stands to reason they are not going to give an extra year to a player who is redshirting.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2020, 09:07:18 AM »
He will get the extra year. It’s now six years to play five.
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MU82

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2020, 10:49:52 AM »
Seriously, unless Perez really doesn't want to play this season, why wouldn't he go for a waiver? Or has the deadline already passed for such a thing?
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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2020, 01:39:53 PM »
Unless something has changed, Perez is not seeking a waiver. I think when he was recruited the coaches presented a plan about how they would use his redshirt year to up his game and I think he liked what he heard.

While most athletes would prefer to play over redshirt, there are a few who see and appreciate the benefit of a year off. Its really an underutilized tool in college basketball.
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MU82

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2020, 03:14:05 PM »
Unless something has changed, Perez is not seeking a waiver. I think when he was recruited the coaches presented a plan about how they would use his redshirt year to up his game and I think he liked what he heard.

While most athletes would prefer to play over redshirt, there are a few who see and appreciate the benefit of a year off. Its really an underutilized tool in college basketball.

Thanks TAMU.
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warriorchick

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2020, 03:42:28 PM »
So this means we get one more year out of Wade, right?

Didn't he already have a year left?
Have some patience, FFS.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2020, 04:00:08 PM »
Next offseason is going to be wild. Some seniors staying, some leaving, possibly instant transfers. I hope we are prepping now. Those not prepared for the new world order could get left behind quickly.
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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #44 on: October 17, 2020, 06:30:25 PM »
Unless something has changed, Perez is not seeking a waiver. I think when he was recruited the coaches presented a plan about how they would use his redshirt year to up his game and I think he liked what he heard.

While most athletes would prefer to play over redshirt, there are a few who see and appreciate the benefit of a year off. Its really an underutilized tool in college basketball.


Thanks for the update.

And I agree with you on the redshirt year. The combination of academics and playing a high D1 level must be pretty overwhelming. If a kid isn’t expected to play much anyway, I can see how a redshirt year could be a godsend. Gives him the opportunity to advance his academics, be part of the team, but not have the added pressure of being game ready if he isn’t expected to play.

bilsu

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2020, 09:29:05 PM »
I think it basically comes down to this. Redshirt this year and play 2021-22 & 2022-23. Do not redshirt this year and play 2020-2021, 2021-2022 and 2022-2023.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2020, 09:34:59 PM »
I think it basically comes down to this. Redshirt this year and play 2021-22 & 2022-23. Do not redshirt this year and play 2020-2021, 2021-2022 and 2022-2023.

I don't believe this is correct. I think the first option is redshirt this year, play 2021-2024.
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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2020, 10:15:43 PM »
I don't believe this is correct. I think the first option is redshirt this year, play 2021-2024.

I guess the question is if one has to play the 2020-21 season to get the extra COVID year. If that's the only shortened year, I can see playing that season being a requirement. Maybe play 20-21 and sit out a later year? Obviously that's not the plan, though.
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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #48 on: October 18, 2020, 07:11:19 AM »
I guess the question is if one has to play the 2020-21 season to get the extra COVID year. If that's the only shortened year, I can see playing that season being a requirement. Maybe play 20-21 and sit out a later year? Obviously that's not the plan, though.

As I understand it, it’s just giving someone six seasons to complete five years of eligibility, so you can redshirt this year.
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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #49 on: October 18, 2020, 12:19:29 PM »
Next offseason is going to be wild. Some seniors staying, some leaving, possibly instant transfers. I hope we are prepping now. Those not prepared for the new world order could get left behind quickly.

Decisions are likely being prepared for already as to who gets asked to return and who gets shown the door. Schools are going to have difficulty managing larger rosters and paying for more scholarships. Wisconsin took the “you played four years, time to move on to real life” position in the spring which seemed harsh but now may become the norm. Would MU be ok with 17 women’s scholarship players next year?
What, you still throwing up bricks? What is this, a Masons convention? Clank, clank! I need, like, a welding torch to play in this league! I got an idea, let's just stop right now and gather up all these bricks and let's build a shelter for the homeless so maybe your mother will have a place to stay

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #50 on: October 18, 2020, 01:06:00 PM »
I guess the question is if one has to play the 2020-21 season to get the extra COVID year. If that's the only shortened year, I can see playing that season being a requirement. Maybe play 20-21 and sit out a later year? Obviously that's not the plan, though.
As I understand it, it’s just giving someone six seasons to complete five years of eligibility, so you can redshirt this year.
I don't believe this is correct. I think the first option is redshirt this year, play 2021-2024.
I think the question we need answered is  does Perez get three more years or two. If he gets three that would be a nice windfall .

bilsu

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2020, 02:18:05 PM »
I see two negative consequences connected with this.
Allow extra scholarships and financially challenged programs have additional costs associated with extra players on scholarship.
However, I think the big thing is that you are potentially taking away scholarships from incoming players.

Trump Loves The Big East

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2020, 03:52:19 PM »
I see two negative consequences connected with this.
Allow extra scholarships and financially challenged programs have additional costs associated with extra players on scholarship.
However, I think the big thing is that you are potentially taking away scholarships from incoming players.
The other potential is that some of the mid and low major programs end up with some quality players that have been displaced in this process . That would bring college basketball to where it was in the late 60s and 70s where those kind of schools frequently had some great players and teams ( in those days because of inefficiency of recruiting methods)

Billy Hoyle

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2020, 07:21:36 PM »
The other potential is that some of the mid and low major programs end up with some quality players that have been displaced in this process . That would bring college basketball to where it was in the late 60s and 70s where those kind of schools frequently had some great players and teams ( in those days because of inefficiency of recruiting methods)

Not really, because those players count against team limits whereas returners who were supposed to exhaust eligibility this year don’t. The headcount expansion is only for players returning to the same program.
What, you still throwing up bricks? What is this, a Masons convention? Clank, clank! I need, like, a welding torch to play in this league! I got an idea, let's just stop right now and gather up all these bricks and let's build a shelter for the homeless so maybe your mother will have a place to stay

Trump Loves The Big East

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2020, 08:32:08 PM »
Not really, because those players count against team limits whereas returners who were supposed to exhaust eligibility this year don’t. The headcount expansion is only for players returning to the same program.
I was responding to Bilsu post about taking scholarships away from incoming. My sense is many schools won’t Elect to have monster rosters and some good kids will migrate to lower levels as a result.

bilsu

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #55 on: October 20, 2020, 09:38:24 AM »
I was responding to Bilsu post about taking scholarships away from incoming. My sense is many schools won’t Elect to have monster rosters and some good kids will migrate to lower levels as a result.
You could be right about this, but then they are pushing out lower level players that would have got scholarships to those schools. I believe there will be less current year senior high school players receiving basketball scholarships. They are the unintended victims of this.

Billy Hoyle

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #56 on: October 20, 2020, 12:20:40 PM »
I was responding to Bilsu post about taking scholarships away from incoming. My sense is many schools won’t Elect to have monster rosters and some good kids will migrate to lower levels as a result.

and when they do that more kids are going to be pushed out since there is no right to appeal for seniors who have their scholarships canceled. Yet one more area where the trickle-down theory screws people over.
What, you still throwing up bricks? What is this, a Masons convention? Clank, clank! I need, like, a welding torch to play in this league! I got an idea, let's just stop right now and gather up all these bricks and let's build a shelter for the homeless so maybe your mother will have a place to stay

Trump Loves The Big East

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #57 on: October 20, 2020, 12:50:02 PM »
You could be right about this, but then they are pushing out lower level players that would have got scholarships to those schools. I believe there will be less current year senior high school players receiving basketball scholarships. They are the unintended victims of this.
I agree that there are unintended victims of this policy. My guess is that some of those players will drop down to DII where they will still receive scholarships . Bottom line is with 20 percent more players someone is going to be pushed down.

 

Billy Hoyle

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Re: Extra year of eligibility for winter athletes?
« Reply #58 on: October 21, 2020, 02:39:20 PM »
I think the question we need answered is  does Perez get three more years or two. If he gets three that would be a nice windfall .

As of right now he gets two years. Those sitting out this year will not get the season back unless the NCAA changes the current rule.
What, you still throwing up bricks? What is this, a Masons convention? Clank, clank! I need, like, a welding torch to play in this league! I got an idea, let's just stop right now and gather up all these bricks and let's build a shelter for the homeless so maybe your mother will have a place to stay