K-12 Schools & COVID

[MU82]

My wife just got her district's teaching plan.
Break students into 2 groups alphabetically (so family members are together). 
Group 1 goes Mon Tues and online remainder.
Group 2 goes Thur Fri and online remainder.
Wednesday is sanitize the building day and online all.

Interesting. Hope all goes well, especially for your wife. Keep us posted.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

What does she teach?  So will she have to do simultaneous in-class and virtual?

She's a high school art teacher.  She will not have to "reserve time" for the other group when teaching in person.  But I know she will be deluged with answering emails at home at the end of each day.  Her district starts the last week of August.

[forgetful]

My wife just got her district's teaching plan.
Break students into 2 groups alphabetically (so family members are together). 
Group 1 goes Mon Tues and online remainder.
Group 2 goes Thur Fri and online remainder.
Wednesday is sanitize the building day and online all.

The way I understood a lot of the push to open schools was related to the economy, and the difficulty of child care forcing people to not work. I don't see how 2-day a week school helps that matter.

Also, sanitizing the building for an entire day is really a feel good measure. It doesn't live that long on surfaces, and they would be exposed to dirty surfaces the 2 days they are at school.

Not sure how these types of plans, which are very common, are actually helping.

[Hards Alumni]

The way I understood a lot of the push to open schools was related to the economy, and the difficulty of child care forcing people to not work. I don't see how 2-day a week school helps that matter.

Also, sanitizing the building for an entire day is really a feel good measure. It doesn't live that long on surfaces, and they would be exposed to dirty surfaces the 2 days they are at school.

Not sure how these types of plans, which are very common, are actually helping.

Absolutely.  Throughout this pandemic, I've learned a lot about what people think is 'clean' and what isn't.   Also what they think needs to be clean and what doesn't need to be clean.  We employ average Americans (IMO) and I have to remind people very frequently to imagine they have cheetoh dust on their fingers when they come into contact with others.  Anything you touch between the interaction has cheetoh dust on it until it is washed.  Touching a surface, then washing your hands without wiping down that surface and then touching that surface... well you've just wasted time washing your hands.  Covid is sticky like cheetoh dust.

Same thing with mask hygiene.  A damp mask is soaked in bacteria and other microorganisms.   Touching the front of your mask gets those on to your hands.  So if you're taking the mask on and off a lot and not being EXTREMELY careful, you could easily pass your grossness to others.  A good rule is that if you adjust your mask, you wash your hands, or use hand sanitizer before touching anything else. 

Similar rules for gloves (don't get me started about how generally unnecessary they are).  If you touch your face or your mask and then something else... you've just contaminated that surface.

I could go on and on about how poor of a job most people do with simple things like hand washing, but I'm sure I'd just be pointing out the obvious to most people here.

[forgetful]

https://mississippitoday.org/2020/08/06/mississippi-teachers-death-during-first-week-of-school-stokes-covid-19-outbreak-fears/

High School teacher and football coach dies, presumably from COVID. Was working with students in practices all summer, up until he had to quarantine.

[pacearrow02]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Bogs4NY/status/1291759750242344961

What is he thinking!?!? 🤬🤬

[mu_hilltopper]

My wife just got her district's teaching plan.
Break students into 2 groups alphabetically (so family members are together). 
Group 1 goes Mon Tues and online remainder.
Group 2 goes Thur Fri and online remainder.
Wednesday is sanitize the building day and online all.

This is our district's schedule as well, plus a full virtual option for families who want to stay home.

It confounds me to think of the virtual end results.  I know what it was like in April .. pre-made videos, occasional live sessions. 

It is absolutely bonkers to think that you can mount a camera in the ceiling and have a teacher give a lecture to kids on the internet.    The audio and video quality will likely be crap unless you have someone running the camera, etc.

[Hards Alumni]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Bogs4NY/status/1291759750242344961

What is he thinking!?!? 🤬🤬

Well, did you say we should open?  Maybe you guys think a lot more alike than you'd like to admit.

[GooooMarquette]

My wife just got her district's teaching plan.
Break students into 2 groups alphabetically (so family members are together). 
Group 1 goes Mon Tues and online remainder.
Group 2 goes Thur Fri and online remainder.
Wednesday is sanitize the building day and online all.

This is our district's schedule as well, plus a full virtual option for families who want to stay home.

It confounds me to think of the virtual end results.  I know what it was like in April .. pre-made videos, occasional live sessions. 

It is absolutely bonkers to think that you can mount a camera in the ceiling and have a teacher give a lecture to kids on the internet.    The audio and video quality will likely be crap unless you have someone running the camera, etc.

Questions for both of you (and others as their plans roll out):

1. Are masks 100% mandatory for all students and staff?
2. Is there a routine testing plan?
3. If a student or teacher tests positive, are all close contacts tested and quarantined?

And for any of those questions - if not, why not?

[The Sultan]

What do you mean by a "routine testing plan?" 

[GooooMarquette]

What do you mean by a "routine testing plan?"

Randomly testing a predetermined percentage of the students and staff, with or without symptoms.

Ideally, it would be periodically testing everyone, but the cost would be astronomical. But testing before/without symptoms is the only way to have a chance to keep a small outbreak from becoming a huge one...especially since many of the kids would be asymptomatic, but could still be spreading the virus.

[The Sultan]

Randomly testing a predetermined percentage of the students and staff, with or without symptoms.

Ideally, it would be periodically testing everyone, but the cost would be astronomical. But testing before/without symptoms is the only way to have a chance to keep a small outbreak from becoming a huge one...especially since many of the kids would be asymptomatic, but could still be spreading the virus.

My understanding from talking with some public health people is that sentinel testing like this is largely a waste of money when you have community spread.  So you test someone, it's negative (assuming they get a quick turnaround), but then they go home and catch it from a family member.  Or you test five of 20 people in a classroom, but it's two that you didn't test who have it.

I'm not saying it doesn't have some benefit, but I would argue that resources would be better spent elsewhere.

[Pakuni]

Florida state authorities told schools they would need health department approval to keep classrooms closed.
Then they ordered health departments
not to give it.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200807/health-directors-told-to-keep-quiet-as-fla-leaders-pressed-to-reopen-classrooms

[Hards Alumni]

Florida state authorities told schools they would need health department approval to keep classrooms closed.
Then they ordered health departments
not to give it.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200807/health-directors-told-to-keep-quiet-as-fla-leaders-pressed-to-reopen-classrooms

Either I'm having a serious case of deja vu or someone posted this earlier...

[GooooMarquette]

My understanding from talking with some public health people is that sentinel testing like this is largely a waste of money when you have community spread.  So you test someone, it's negative (assuming they get a quick turnaround), but then they go home and catch it from a family member.  Or you test five of 20 people in a classroom, but it's two that you didn't test who have it.

I'm not saying it doesn't have some benefit, but I would argue that resources would be better spent elsewhere.

That is a fair point...but the cost/benefit really depends on factors like the state's current prevalence and positivity rate. For example, if the positivity rate is higher, you'd have a better chance of 'stumbling' on a case at random.

So consider the south and west. Currently, every state (except LA) from SC to AZ/NV currently has a positivity rate between 12.3% to 20.9%...so you wouldn't have to run many tests before you'd stumble on a case and have a chance to cut off the spread. I'd use random testing in every one, plus any other state over 10%.

In contrast, where positivity rates are low (maybe <5%), there's a much better argument that it's a waste of money. So for example, places like VT (0.6%), CT (0.7%), ME (0.7%), NY (1.0%), NJ (1.6%), DC (2.0%), NH (2.1%), MI (2.5%), MA (2.7%), WV (2.9%), IL (4.0%), MN (4.6%) and MT (4.6%) can probably feel OK without random tests.

In between 5% and 10% it gets a little fuzzy, so I could see going either way. And of course, it gets more granular within states, which is where I see the benefit to local involvement.

Just my 0.02.

[Pakuni]

Either I'm having a serious case of deja vu or someone posted this earlier...

My apologies

[The Sultan]

That is a fair point...but the cost/benefit really depends on factors like the state's current prevalence and positivity rate. For example, if the positivity rate is higher, you'd have a better chance of 'stumbling' on a case at random.

So consider the south and west. Currently, every state (except LA) from SC to AZ/NV currently has a positivity rate between 12.3% to 20.9%...so you wouldn't have to run many tests before you'd stumble on a case and have a chance to cut off the spread. I'd use random testing in every one, plus any other state over 10%.

In contrast, where positivity rates are low (maybe <5%), there's a much better argument that it's a waste of money. So for example, places like VT (0.6%), CT (0.7%), ME (0.7%), NY (1.0%), NJ (1.6%), DC (2.0%), NH (2.1%), MI (2.5%), MA (2.7%), WV (2.9%), IL (4.0%), MN (4.6%) and MT (4.6%) can probably feel OK without random tests.

In between 5% and 10% it gets a little fuzzy, so I could see going either way. And of course, it gets more granular within states, which is where I see the benefit to local involvement.

Just my 0.02.

So I agree with you that sentinel testing is a good, overall public health strategy.  I just don't think its a wise investment for a K-12 education system or a college / university which only have so much resources to spend.

[Hards Alumni]

My apologies

For the deja vu?  Seems like my problem!

[GooooMarquette]

So I agree with you that sentinel testing is a good, overall public health strategy.  I just don't think its a wise investment for a K-12 education system or a college / university which only have so much resources to spend.

Certainly not within the school districts' normal budgets. But given that school is so inextricably linked to overall public health (and since some federal lawmakers are pushing so hard for schools to reopen), it would seem like a wise investment for lawmakers.

[Jockey]

Florida state authorities told schools they would need health department approval to keep classrooms closed.
Then they ordered health departments
not to give it.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200807/health-directors-told-to-keep-quiet-as-fla-leaders-pressed-to-reopen-classrooms

Yossarian would have loved this.

[GooooMarquette]

Yossarian would have loved this.

[pbiflyer]

Florida state authorities told schools they would need health department approval to keep classrooms closed.
Then they ordered health departments
not to give it.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200807/health-directors-told-to-keep-quiet-as-fla-leaders-pressed-to-reopen-classrooms

Hillsboro county (Tampa, Fl) was just denied the ability to go virtual by the gov. Lawsuits when the first person be it teacher, child, or parent, dies.

[Marquette Fan]

Hillsboro county (Tampa, Fl) was just denied the ability to go virtual by the gov. Lawsuits when the first person be it teacher, child, or parent, dies.

I've always said I don't want to home school my kids.  But I will home school them before I send them back to school this fall after seeing the really poor plan our District had for face to face learning to start the school year.  Fortunately I think our District is either going to start Virtual for everyone or offer the Virtual option for parents who don't want to send their kids back in person right away.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Questions for both of you (and others as their plans roll out):

1. Are masks 100% mandatory for all students and staff?
2. Is there a routine testing plan?
3. If a student or teacher tests positive, are all close contacts tested and quarantined?

And for any of those questions - if not, why not?

1.  Masks are mandatory to enter school for everyone.  It should not be an issue because everywhere I go in Connecticut people are doing a good job wearing.
2. School is not handling testing   They are asking everyone to self-temperature check at home before leaving for school.  And if you feel sick in any way to stay home.
3.  Yes, they are asking those who get sick to notify school.  I believe they are asking those who were in contact to quarantine and get tested.  Not sure of full details.

My kids worked the town summer camp which did open with strict protocols   7 weeks + another orientation week finished with no incidents.  1 week left to go.

[shoothoops]

Remember the Georgia High School Student recently suspended for sharing a photo online of packed hallways of students w/o masks?

You wouldn't believe that now 9 people there have tested positive for COVID-19 and counting:

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/people-test-positive-coronavirus-georgia-school-viral-crowded/story?id=72263772&__twitter_impression=true