K-12 Schools & COVID

[reinko]

I’ve seen it brainstormed, but how has outdoor instruction not gained more traction?

[GB Warrior]

I’ve seen it brainstormed, but how has outdoor instruction not gained more traction?

My 2 cents is because it requires additional resources to do in any successful manner, and we already see what a sh!t job we do supporting our teachers' needs already. Also, what do you do in Wisconsin when the weather invariably goes south fairly quickly? It's not impossible, and as such should get full consideration, but there are a lot of logistical issues as well as inequities for schools without adequate outdoor amenities

[reinko]

My 2 cents is because it requires additional resources to do in any successful manner, and we already see what a sh!t job we do supporting our teachers' needs already. Also, what do you do in Wisconsin when the weather invariably goes south fairly quickly? It's not impossible, and as such should get full consideration, but there are a lot of logistical issues as well as inequities for schools without adequate outdoor amenities

I get all that, but everyone (parents, teachers, principals, and ultimately students), are being flexible as possible.  If I got 24 hours notice I could send my 1st grader for a day of “in person” instruction on the playground, hell yeah I would do that.  And honestly, I’ll take my chances of my kid not getting struck my lightening in a storm versus getting COVID in a 500 sq classroom.

[Marquette Fan]

I’ve seen it brainstormed, but how has outdoor instruction not gained more traction?

I've heard mention of it and think it would be great in the early part of the school year.  But I'm guessing our District won't do it.

One shocker from last week's school board meeting for our District was the talk of buying some special cleaner for buses that costs $100,000 - not sure where they plan on getting the funding for that.  And I get to watch another board meeting online next week since our District still hasn't finalized a plan for the fall - oh joy.  At least watching online versus being there in person I can drink beer while I watch it .

[Jockey]

I've heard mention of it and think it would be great in the early part of the school year.  But I'm guessing our District won't do it.

One shocker from last week's school board meeting for our District was the talk of buying some special cleaner for buses that costs $100,000 - not sure where they plan on getting the funding for that.  And I get to watch another board meeting online next week since our District still hasn't finalized a plan for the fall - oh joy.  At least watching online versus being there in person I can drink beer while I watch it .

Why is the meeting online?

[#UnleashSean]

I’ve seen it brainstormed, but how has outdoor instruction not gained more traction?

For the month and a half it would be doable?

[Marquette Fan]

Why is the meeting online?

The meeting is an in person meeting - didn't explain myself well as usual .  But I have no desire to go be around a lot of people in person right now and with how long the last one dragged out talking about non-important things too I was glad to be watching from home.  And since I don't think they'll be allowing parents to speak at the meeting, there's really no reason I need to attend in person.

[Jockey]

The meeting is an in person meeting - didn't explain myself well as usual .  But I have no desire to go be around a lot of people in person right now and with how long the last one dragged out talking about non-important things too I was glad to be watching from home.  And since I don't think they'll be allowing parents to speak at the meeting, there's really no reason I need to attend in person.

Thanks for the reply.

[Hards Alumni]

I've heard mention of it and think it would be great in the early part of the school year.  But I'm guessing our District won't do it.

One shocker from last week's school board meeting for our District was the talk of buying some special cleaner for buses that costs $100,000 - not sure where they plan on getting the funding for that.  And I get to watch another board meeting online next week since our District still hasn't finalized a plan for the fall - oh joy.  At least watching online versus being there in person I can drink beer while I watch it .

$100,000 is obscene.  We run 30+ minibuses on a daily basis and our cleaning needs have not exceeded $10,000.  Also, we're 5 months into doing this.

[Hards Alumni]

I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express and I've spent a good amount of time researching air filtration and UV lights and their potential to help with COVID.

Short Answer: Maybe air filters and UVC helps.  Might as well.

The big question is about the virus and is it in the air for a few seconds then drop to the floor, or does dwell and is therefore "airborne."   Some say yes, some say no.

The whole "it drops to the floor" concept is why we have the 6 foot distancing rule.  In theory, someone sprays out the virus as they speak, it drops to the ground in 6 feet, problem solved.

If it instead floats around, then air filters can help.  HEPA filters go down to .01 micron, and COVID is .125, so yay for that.   

Most HVACs have MERV 8-11-14 filters.  Guess what .. MERV 14 only goes down to .3, so .. COVID could slip right through.  I don't think HEPA filters are common in HVAC instals.

Enter UV-C lighting.  It's really not that expensive.  For $100 a consumer can attach one to their HVAC -- I've done this personally.   It's a bit of a mystery if the air molecules spend enough time in the duct where the UV-C bulb is to destroy the virus, but for $100 I'll gamble on that.

Industrial air handlers can have large, multi-bulb UVC bulbs, 3 feet long that COVID would get zapped.   Again, not super expensive. 

Interestingly, it appears the best option would be "Upper Room UVC" .. basically, you mount a UVC lightbox on each wall, high above the room.  The box has slats, so the UVC rays only go straight across the top of the room.   You can flip them on all day long, with people below, and it creates a zone of virus death near the top of the room.   (* Certain ceiling paints and other obstacles can be too reflective and cause eye strain for below, so .. gotta watch for that.)

This is used in Tuberculosis clinic waiting rooms in countries TB is prevalent.   The UVC Upper Room lightboxes are not that expensive and are easily retro-fitted onto walls.

In conclusion .. that's what I'd be installing in classrooms.  And Arby's.

I have no idea why such a cheap and effective solution hasn't gained more traction.  Additionally, I also don't know why UVC isn't used more frequently in places like cruise ships, bathrooms at airports, etc.

[mu_hilltopper]

I have no idea why such a cheap and effective solution hasn't gained more traction.  Additionally, I also don't know why UVC isn't used more frequently in places like cruise ships, bathrooms at airports, etc.

Agree.  I imagine within X years (5?  10?) UVC will be standard everywhere as the globe becomes more virus aware.

There's also a newly discovered "UVC-FAR" which is a light source that kills viruses but it can't penetrate skin or eyes.    This means no safety issues, you can put it everywhere, airports, offices, hallways, cruise ships and blast away 24/7.    (Obviously, they need to test the hell out of those claims.)

[Jockey]

Yes, I know it's Buzzfeed, but this should scare everyone.


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mollyhensleyclancy/georgia-school-reopening-photo-paulding-county

[Hards Alumni]

Yes, I know it's Buzzfeed, but this should scare everyone.


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mollyhensleyclancy/georgia-school-reopening-photo-paulding-county

Buzzfeed news is an extremely reputable source.  They aren't the same thing as Buzzfeed... but they are owned by them.

They've won multiple publishing awards and been nominated for Pulitzers.

[jesmu84]

Schools already cracking down...on inadvertent whistleblowers

https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/news/video/student-suspended-showing-fellow-students-masks-72209309

[Jockey]

Buzzfeed news is an extremely reputable source.  They aren't the same thing as Buzzfeed... but they are owned by them.

They've won multiple publishing awards and been nominated for Pulitzers.

Yeah, they've got some good people working there now, I just can't get over that it's Buzzfeed.

[Jockey]

Schools already cracking down...on inadvertent whistleblowers

https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/news/video/student-suspended-showing-fellow-students-masks-72209309

Let 'em die.

[GooooMarquette]

Yes, I know it's Buzzfeed, but this should scare everyone.


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mollyhensleyclancy/georgia-school-reopening-photo-paulding-county

So much for social distancing....

[forgetful]

Agree.  I imagine within X years (5?  10?) UVC will be standard everywhere as the globe becomes more virus aware.

There's also a newly discovered "UVC-FAR" which is a light source that kills viruses but it can't penetrate skin or eyes.    This means no safety issues, you can put it everywhere, airports, offices, hallways, cruise ships and blast away 24/7.    (Obviously, they need to test the hell out of those claims.)

I will note that I was unaware of how safe far-UVC light actually is. Your eyes would still be sensitive, but overall seems to be little health risk.

My "safety" post previously was largely in relation to UV-A and UV-B light, that I know a lot about. I had falsely assumed that UV-C would be more dangerous, because it is higher energy. I should have thought about the fact that the UV-C range is absorbed strongly by proteins, and hence will not penetrate the body really at all, making it safer, even though higher energy and it being ionizing radiation.

I'm intrigued by the possibilities of UV-C, now. Thanks for the comments, learn something new everyday.

[MU82]

Charlotte Mecklenburg Schools, the largest district in NC, has decided there will be no high school sports this fall.

No announcement yet on any kind of alternative, such such as moving football and other fall sports to spring as Virginia and Maryland have already decided to do.

Bummer for those kids, but it's about more than them. Coaches, officials, support personnel, parents. And there already is no in-person school for the fall semester at public schools here.

[Hards Alumni]

I will note that I was unaware of how safe far-UVC light actually is. Your eyes would still be sensitive, but overall seems to be little health risk.

My "safety" post previously was largely in relation to UV-A and UV-B light, that I know a lot about. I had falsely assumed that UV-C would be more dangerous, because it is higher energy. I should have thought about the fact that the UV-C range is absorbed strongly by proteins, and hence will not penetrate the body really at all, making it safer, even though higher energy and it being ionizing radiation.

I'm intrigued by the possibilities of UV-C, now. Thanks for the comments, learn something new everyday.

UVC can certainly still give you a severe radiation burn (sunburn for those that don't know), and they can make you blind.  Best place to hide them is ventilation for this reason.  Or they are tripped to off when a door opens, or only run when buildings are locked.

[forgetful]

UVC can certainly still give you a severe radiation burn (sunburn for those that don't know), and they can make you blind.  Best place to hide them is ventilation for this reason.  Or they are tripped to off when a door opens, or only run when buildings are locked.

That is what I had thought also, but looked into it some. While it can still cause serious eye damage and blindness, the radiation burn part appears to not be strongly supported.

It appears that due to the strong absorbance by proteins, that the penetration depth is too low to cause any actual cellular damage. I'd personally still take precautions for skin, until there are a lot more studies on safety, but am intrigued by the possibilities. Especially, because dose is important. High dosages are still going to penetrate deep enough to cause damage. The question is where is the safety threshold.

And agree on your safety recommendations.

[MU82]

Schools already cracking down...on inadvertent whistleblowers

https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/news/video/student-suspended-showing-fellow-students-masks-72209309

This might be the saddest thing I read today.

Talk about shooting the messenger. Wow.

[jesmu84]

This might be the saddest thing I read today.

Talk about shooting the messenger. Wow.

To be fair, need to teach these kids early in life that whistleblowers are bad and should be punished

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

My wife just got her district's teaching plan.
Break students into 2 groups alphabetically (so family members are together). 
Group 1 goes Mon Tues and online remainder.
Group 2 goes Thur Fri and online remainder.
Wednesday is sanitize the building day and online all.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

My wife just got her district's teaching plan.
Break students into 2 groups alphabetically (so family members are together). 
Group 1 goes Mon Tues and online remainder.
Group 2 goes Thur Fri and online remainder.
Wednesday is sanitize the building day and online all.

What does she teach?  So will she have to do simultaneous in-class and virtual?