No Athletic Events if No Students on Campus BE

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I'm actually pretty impressed here Fluffy I must say. Seems you have come a long way on this since the beginning. I'm impressed. This isn't anywhere close to the stance I'd see you taking. *standing applause*

My stance hasn't changed at all really.  I've said we have to flatten the curve by shutting down.  I've said that I think Evers' orders to go past Memorial Day were understandable, but too long in the end.  I think large crowds at sporting events are a long way off.  And I think iignoring the threat early on, and nconsistent, to downright awful, messaging from the top has hampered our efforts from the beginning and continues to do so.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You know what's not real however?? The # of deaths that are reported as being due to Covid-19 that are actually NOT because of Covid-19. I have this from an incredibly reliable source who has been a nurse for almost 30 years. She flat out told me, a lot of hospitals are labeling it "death to covid-19" because A. they either want to because they have an agenda, or B. because their are no autopsies being done, so there is no proof to the general public that it wasn't due to Covid-19. She told me she has had at least 50 patients die during this time that were 100% NOT due to Covid-19, but hospital administrators told them to "label it as Covid-19". For the record, she's a liberal. Why this info would shock anyone is beyond me, other than the fact that they themselves have an agenda.

I'm sure there are inaccuracies no doubt.  But I really doubt your "incredibly reliable source" has much in the way of knowledge beyond her local situation.  Look what is happening in New York with refrigerated trucks and the like.  How much do you think that is simply a lot of people dying coincidently at the same time as a global pandemic?

This is not the first time I've heard about this.

I've seen it a lot on bogus conspiracy videos myself.

[wadesworld]

I love that the shut down is being considered “asinine.” Pretty much every major country in the world has shut down at some point. We want to put every ounce of blame on China for duping Donald Trump so hey, can’t be Donald’s fault, for anything! Yet China shut down major, major cities. But the US shouldn’t have to do that! Liberate us!

What’s asinine is how uncoordinated the shut downs have been because of the complete lack of leadership at the top.

[Mr. Nielsen]

I've seen it a lot on bogus conspiracy videos myself.

I really don't seek out the videos, so I can't say on that level.

[GooooMarquette]

I still have never understood why we haven't just isolated the higher risk/elderly/obese people/smokers/cancer patients/people with heart or lung disease from the very beginning and let the world continue around them, of course with the understanding that those family members of the high risk people know what they'd be getting into and taking proper precautions etc. That seemed like the easiest solution all along.

Fixed the definition of high risk for you...and just cut your pool of potential customers by about 2/3. Obesity alone would eliminate between 25-33% of adults in America...and evidence is emerging that obesity may be the biggest risk factor other than age for severe illness with COVID.

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/prevalence-maps.html#overall

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/covid-19-studies-obesity-boosts-risk-diagnosing-health-workers

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid19-obesity-risk-factor

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-52561757

[Uncle Rico]

I love that the shut down is being considered “asinine.” Pretty much every major country in the world has shut down at some point. We want to put ever ounce of blame on China for duping Donald Trump so hey, can’t be Donald’s fault, for anything! Yet China shut down major, major cities. But the US shouldn’t have to do that! Liberate us!

What’s asinine is how uncoordinated the shut downs have been because of the complete lack of leadership at the top.

When your leader cares only about himself and how he looks versus actually leading, you’re doomed to failure at some point.  The greatest fear of electing a con man is when real life choices have to be made.  We failed miserably at the federal level and the bailouts from the legislature are a laughable farce.

I’m for opening things up and I would go to sporting events.  I’d also happily wear a mask at the minimum and take all necessary precautions.  Unfortunately, many won’t and that’s why this is a long way from being over.  Consistent messaging from the top would help, but that will not happen because it’s impossible for this administration not to frame it without airing grievances or making tough decisions

[muguru]

When your leader cares only about himself and how he looks versus actually leading, you’re doomed to failure at some point.  The greatest fear of electing a con man is when real life choices have to be made.  We failed miserably at the federal level and the bailouts from the legislature are a laughable farce.

I’m for opening things up and I would go to sporting events.  I’d also happily wear a mask at the minimum and take all necessary precautions.  Unfortunately, many won’t and that’s why this is a long way from being over.  Consistent messaging from the top would help, but that will not happen because it’s impossible for this administration not to frame it without airing grievances or making tough decisions

 

[Billy Hoyle]

Xavier just announced via Facebook this am that it is planning on having students in the fall.

Most schools are saying that right now to make sure they get deposits from incoming freshmen. If they do have classes it will be in a very different format. No more packing 25 kids in a room, for class.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Most schools are saying that right now to make sure they get deposits from incoming freshmen. If they do have classes it will be in a very different format. No more packing 25 kids in a room, for class.

Yep. And honestly most schools are planning to have students back in the fall. But I can guarantee you that Xavier has all sorts of contingency plans they are working on. 

Just like the NFL is planning for business as normal this season but are clearly working on contingencies.

[muguru]

Yep. And honestly most schools are planning to have students back in the fall. But I can guarantee you that Xavier has all sorts of contingency plans they are working on. 

Just like the NFL is planning for business as normal this season but are clearly working on contingencies.

The problem is I think, is that if schools aren't back on campus in the fall, parents won't enroll their kids at that school if the classes are going to be online. Why would they?? As Sand Knit noted, they could do that at a much lessor cost at a different "online" school. If enrollments are devastated by this(no students on campus), schools are in BIG BIG trouble, and they know it.

[brewcity77]

I love that the shut down is being considered “asinine.” Pretty much every major country in the world has shut down at some point. We want to put every ounce of blame on China for duping Donald Trump so hey, can’t be Donald’s fault, for anything! Yet China shut down major, major cities. But the US shouldn’t have to do that! Liberate us!

What’s asinine is how uncoordinated the shut downs have been because of the complete lack of leadership at the top.

I'm not sure what amazes me more, how the "liberal" media has convinced virtually every developed country in the world to kill citizens and shut down their economies just to stick it to one guy in America, or how the idea of people having to stay home is so hard they have to storm capital buildings and threaten police with long rifles because "freedom."

This was an easy win for the government. Use the DPA in January and February to ramp up testing and PPE production as soon as we had the first case. Start a UBI every 2 weeks once things started to shut down in March so people would have a financial lifeline. Guarantee financial protection to businesses that kept their employees on to prevent the unemployment rate from skyrocketing. Convert additional field hospitals in hot spots to contain and provide specialized treatment for the infected. And have a plan for reopening instituted and vetted by the CDC before allowing things to fire back up.

Instead, we looked at what was happening in China, Italy, and Spain and did...nothing. Nothing but blame others for our own failings while the death toll rose. Nothing but create conspiracy theories to convince ourselves it wasn't real despite us having more confirmed cases than Italy, Spain, the UK, Germany, Russia, and France combined. What a shambles we are.

[Billy Hoyle]

The problem is I think, is that if schools aren't back on campus in the fall, parents won't enroll their kids at that school if the classes are going to be online. Why would they?? As Sand Knit noted, they could do that at a much lessor cost at a different "online" school. If enrollments are devastated by this(no students on campus), schools are in BIG BIG trouble, and they know it.

The biggest moneymaker for colleges is traditionally the residence halls. What happens there? Can you have doubles, triples and quads? Classes are one thing but the halls are the biggest issue. Can two guys socially distance in an O’Donnell double? If you have to reduce residence hall capacity how can you accommodate enough students?

A friend at a fellow BE school is predicting a 30% drop in freshman enrollment this upcoming year at his institution. Hard to say right now if that will happen but unless there are some serious developments I think we see numbers closer to that percentage than further from it. This is the generation of helicopter and bulldozer parents after all.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The problem is I think, is that if schools aren't back on campus in the fall, parents won't enroll their kids at that school if the classes are going to be online. Why would they?? As Sand Knit noted, they could do that at a much lessor cost at a different "online" school. If enrollments are devastated by this(no students on campus), schools are in BIG BIG trouble, and they know it.

Yep. The economic circumstances for many schools would be dire.

[brewcity77]

Yep. The economic circumstances for many schools would be dire.

I think "will" is more likely than "would" at this point. This is why we should have robust federal funding. We've learned in the past 4 years that deficits aren't actually a thing anyone cares about, so the feed just needs to pay the bill.

[tower912]

I'm not sure what amazes me more, how the "liberal" media has convinced virtually every developed country in the world to kill citizens and shut down their economies just to stick it to one guy in America, or how the idea of people having to stay home is so hard they have to storm capital buildings and threaten police with long rifles because "freedom."

This was an easy win for the government. Use the DPA in January and February to ramp up testing and PPE production as soon as we had the first case. Start a UBI every 2 weeks once things started to shut down in March so people would have a financial lifeline. Guarantee financial protection to businesses that kept their employees on to prevent the unemployment rate from skyrocketing. Convert additional field hospitals in hot spots to contain and provide specialized treatment for the infected. And have a plan for reopening instituted and vetted by the CDC before allowing things to fire back up.

Instead, we looked at what was happening in China, Italy, and Spain and did...nothing. Nothing but blame others for our own failings while the death toll rose. Nothing but create conspiracy theories to convince ourselves it wasn't real despite us having more confirmed cases than Italy, Spain, the UK, Germany, Russia, and France combined. What a shambles we are.

Spoken like a man well versed in emergency planning, incident command, and who has spent a career having every command decision made near him or by him ruthlessly vetted by peers and standards.   One who knows all about accountability and learning from mistakes to hopefully not repeat them.

[wadesworld]

I'm not sure what amazes me more, how the "liberal" media has convinced virtually every developed country in the world to kill citizens and shut down their economies just to stick it to one guy in America, or how the idea of people having to stay home is so hard they have to storm capital buildings and threaten police with long rifles because "freedom."

This was an easy win for the government. Use the DPA in January and February to ramp up testing and PPE production as soon as we had the first case. Start a UBI every 2 weeks once things started to shut down in March so people would have a financial lifeline. Guarantee financial protection to businesses that kept their employees on to prevent the unemployment rate from skyrocketing. Convert additional field hospitals in hot spots to contain and provide specialized treatment for the infected. And have a plan for reopening instituted and vetted by the CDC before allowing things to fire back up.

Instead, we looked at what was happening in China, Italy, and Spain and did...nothing. Nothing but blame others for our own failings while the death toll rose. Nothing but create conspiracy theories to convince ourselves it wasn't real despite us having more confirmed cases than Italy, Spain, the UK, Germany, Russia, and France combined. What a shambles we are.

Yup.

[LAZER]

I'm not sure what amazes me more, how the "liberal" media has convinced virtually every developed country in the world to kill citizens and shut down their economies just to stick it to one guy in America, or how the idea of people having to stay home is so hard they have to storm capital buildings and threaten police with long rifles because "freedom."

This was an easy win for the government. Use the DPA in January and February to ramp up testing and PPE production as soon as we had the first case. Start a UBI every 2 weeks once things started to shut down in March so people would have a financial lifeline. Guarantee financial protection to businesses that kept their employees on to prevent the unemployment rate from skyrocketing. Convert additional field hospitals in hot spots to contain and provide specialized treatment for the infected. And have a plan for reopening instituted and vetted by the CDC before allowing things to fire back up.

Instead, we looked at what was happening in China, Italy, and Spain and did...nothing. Nothing but blame others for our own failings while the death toll rose. Nothing but create conspiracy theories to convince ourselves it wasn't real despite us having more confirmed cases than Italy, Spain, the UK, Germany, Russia, and France combined. What a shambles we are.

It’ find it incredibly frustrating that we could be doing even more right now and even chalk it up as ‘infrastructure spending’ to get us prepared for it coming back in the winter.  We could be spending billions and billions to help mitigate the economic impact and it would still be totally worthwhile.  Instead we’re doubling down on our lack of preparedness.

[muguru]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/economic-expert-with-perfect-record-calling-recessions-is-betting-this-one-will-be-over-by-the-end-of-2020-2020-05-06?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo

[Scoop Snoop]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/economic-expert-with-perfect-record-calling-recessions-is-betting-this-one-will-be-over-by-the-end-of-2020-2020-05-06?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo

I hope he's right guru. Better yet, let's hope it's a little before the end of the year. Wednesday, November 4 would be the ideal vaccine and economic turnaround point.

[79Warrior]

I love that the shut down is being considered “asinine.” Pretty much every major country in the world has shut down at some point. We want to put every ounce of blame on China for duping Donald Trump so hey, can’t be Donald’s fault, for anything! Yet China shut down major, major cities. But the US shouldn’t have to do that! Liberate us!

What’s asinine is how uncoordinated the shut downs have been because of the complete lack of leadership at the top.

Please, no logic here. That will make it too difficult for some. I prefer to believe people with anonymous reliable sources.

[IrwinFletcher]

I'm not sure what amazes me more, how the "liberal" media has convinced virtually every developed country in the world to kill citizens and shut down their economies just to stick it to one guy in America, or how the idea of people having to stay home is so hard they have to storm capital buildings and threaten police with long rifles because "freedom."

This was an easy win for the government. Use the DPA in January and February to ramp up testing and PPE production as soon as we had the first case. Start a UBI every 2 weeks once things started to shut down in March so people would have a financial lifeline. Guarantee financial protection to businesses that kept their employees on to prevent the unemployment rate from skyrocketing. Convert additional field hospitals in hot spots to contain and provide specialized treatment for the infected. And have a plan for reopening instituted and vetted by the CDC before allowing things to fire back up.

Instead, we looked at what was happening in China, Italy, and Spain and did...nothing. Nothing but blame others for our own failings while the death toll rose. Nothing but create conspiracy theories to convince ourselves it wasn't real despite us having more confirmed cases than Italy, Spain, the UK, Germany, Russia, and France combined. What a shambles we are.

Just because you see this through your lens, Brew, doesn't mean it is correct.

Many disagree with you and sorry if you fail to see the human suffering of the shutdown.

[brewcity77]

Just because you see this through your lens, Brew, doesn't mean it is correct.

Many disagree with you and sorry if you fail to see the human suffering of the shutdown.

EDIT: Sorry, my initial response was aggravated and poor.

Full disclosure, or as full as I can give: I am currently running a COVID specific unit and have been in meetings regarding these specific patients and cases for the better part of two months. When duty calls, I know exactly what I'm going to every time and it is going to see the human suffering of this pandemic. I have had to keep a woman from hugging her deceased husband one last time because of the risk of carrying the infection to the rest of her family. I have stood by as a mother explained to her grade-school children that their father was dead far earlier than he should have been. I have dozens of friends that have been placed on quarantine due to exposure and more that have contracted the disease.

The human suffering of the shutdown is my every day. Please, respectfully, don't try to say I'm not seeing the human suffering. It's damn near all I see.

[Newsdreams]

I still have never understood why we haven't just isolated the higher risk/elderly  from the very beginning and let the world continue around them, of course with the understanding that those family members of the high risk people know what they'd be getting into and taking proper precautions etc. That seemed like the easiest solution all along.

Because immunity has not been able to be confirmed after you recover. And you don't need an autopsy, they use a skin and blood sample from deceased and you can confirm positive infection.

[Newsdreams]

This is not the first time I've heard about this.

It is a debunked conspiracy theory.

[brewcity77]

Because immunity has not been able to be confirmed after you recover. And you don't need an autopsy, they use a skin and blood sample from deceased and you can confirm positive infection.

That kind of isolation also isn't really possible. Those elderly and high risk patients still need to have some interactions with the outside world, whether it's deliveries, caregivers, or other individuals. We can't stick them in carbonite. And while it's nice to think those things are completely safe, they aren't. People get lazy. I've seen hospital ERs where the staff doesn't wear their masks, nursing homes where providers don't change gloves as they go from room to room, and policies change so fast that it can be hard to stay current with best practices so even well-intentioned caregivers can make mistakes if they missed an email or were off a couple days. And one mistake can lead to spread within that community, especially in a nursing home or assisted living facility.