MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Newsdreams on May 08, 2020, 12:23:08 PM
-
Per Val Ackerman
https://twitter.com/bensteelemjs/status/1258807276422512641?s=21
Big East commissioner Val Ackerman said in a Zoom media call that if there are no students on campus, there will be no athletic events. #mubb
-
She can say whatever she wants but at the end of the day if the 5 football conferences decide they are playing we will play. There is a reason they canceled their tournaments without discussing with BE.
If they play, I promise you the BE will play. If they don’t, you’ll see the teams face big disadvantages moving forward.
-
Regardless, I think students will be on campus come Sept 1.
-
Regardless, I think students will be on campus come Sept 1.
I know for a fact that MU is planning for having students on campus and attending classes in some form come September. Hopefully it works out some way.
-
No matter how tough these conferences talk, there will not be athletics until there are students on campus. Period. If they put student-athletes in play, that sends the blatant message that the health of their paying students is more important than the health of their unpaid labor force and that it is acceptable to sacrifice the health of scholarship athletes for entertainment despite it not being safe enough to put those same scholarship athletes in a classroom.
If an athletic director puts student-athletes into competition or even practice when their superiors (president, state governor, etc) say it isn't safe for students to be in contact in a classroom environment and even one SA gets sick, that AD should immediately be fired and permanently blacklisted.
-
I wouldn't go that far. I think there's a big difference between putting 20-30 student athletes, 3 refs, and 10-15 coaches onto a basketball court, and putting 5,000-70,000 students plus god knows how many employees onto a college campus.
With that small of a group, there are safeguards that can be put into to place to help reduce the risk.
Plus, I think this will be a non-issue anyway. Economy will trump public health. I anticipate students being back in some capacity at every D1 school come the fall semester.
-
I wouldn't go that far. I think there's a big difference between putting 20-30 student athletes, 3 refs, and 10-15 coaches onto a basketball court, and putting 5,000-70,000 students plus god knows how many employees onto a college campus.
With that small of a group, there are safeguards that can be put into to place to help reduce the risk.
Plus, I think this will be a non-issue anyway. Economy will trump public health. I anticipate students being back in some capacity at every D1 school come the fall semester.
Bolded is very true. Thanks for having the balls to say it out loud. Does not mean that I agree or disagree with whether this is the way things should be, but I believe that you are spot on.
-
Plus, I think this will be a non-issue anyway. Economy will trump public health. I anticipate students being back in some capacity at every D1 school come the fall semester.
While I could see people opening up for that reason, it's a false choice. Anyone acting like this is a choice between saving the economy or saving lives is being disingenuous at best. The options are either save lives and have a long economic rebuild or kill people and have a long economic rebuild. There is no option that doesn't end with a long (think 5-10 years as best case scenario) economic rebuild, and it's easier to rebuild an economy with a healthy workforce.
The more people we kill in the short term, the harder the economic rebuild will be. But there are definitely those that continue to paint us into a corner with this false choice.
-
While I could see people opening up for that reason, it's a false choice. Anyone acting like this is a choice between saving the economy or saving lives is being disingenuous at best. The options are either save lives and have a long economic rebuild or kill people and have a long economic rebuild. There is no option that doesn't end with a long (think 5-10 years as best case scenario) economic rebuild, and it's easier to rebuild an economy with a healthy workforce.
The more people we kill in the short term, the harder the economic rebuild will be. But there are definitely those that continue to paint us into a corner with this false choice.
Dude, stop with the dramatic overkill. The death rate from this virus is so low, and probably even lower than is being reported due to the low testing so far. I'm so sick of you and others painting us into a corner with the false choice of either we stay locked up in our homes, or we kill a significant number of people. Have you seen the recent report that 2/3 of the new positive tests in NYC were from people who were locked down in their homes? So stop it already. Who's to say that the death rate won't stay flat, or close to flat, when we start opening up? There are many small businesses that have suffered huge blows already, but will be able to be saved if they are allowed to reopen in the coming weeks; many of these businesses will never recover if they are locked down for too much longer. That is fact.
-
Dude, stop with the dramatic overkill. The death rate from this virus is so low, and probably even lower than is being reported due to the low testing so far. I'm so sick of you and others painting us into a corner with the false choice of either we stay locked up in our homes, or we kill a significant number of people. Have you seen the recent report that 2/3 of the new positive tests in NYC were from people who were locked down in their homes? So stop it already. Who's to say that the death rate won't stay flat, or close to flat, when we start opening up? There are many small businesses that have suffered huge blows already, but will be able to be saved if they are allowed to reopen in the coming weeks; many of these businesses will never recover if they are locked down for too much longer. That is fact.
My question is what changes between today and two weeks from now when states begin to reopen?
There won’t be a vaccine readily available for the foreseeable future so the best we can do is ramp up testing, which we’ve been doing. If you test positive or if you fear for your safety, stay home, but continuing to shut down the economy is not the answer.
More tests = greater awareness and won’t require large scale quarantines.
-
We're going to hit 80,000 deaths today or tomorrow. We're having a 9/11 level of deaths every two days. But please, go on about how this isn't a big deal and we should encourage greater spread by opening more up.
-
Why would they even take a small risk to have kids on the campus when they can just do online. With the vaccine 12ish months away the only hope is to find a treatment that makes this thing significantly less serious. If this is true mu hoops will be delayed at the least. Idk i just dont see colleges packing dorms and classrooms in fall and puting people at risk for no reason. Especially in Milwaukee. I have no idea. I just dont see them giving the green light to students by September. Just dont. Ugh
-
No matter how tough these conferences talk, there will not be athletics until there are students on campus. Period. If they put student-athletes in play, that sends the blatant message that the health of their paying students is more important than the health of their unpaid labor force and that it is acceptable to sacrifice the health of scholarship athletes for entertainment despite it not being safe enough to put those same scholarship athletes in a classroom.
If an athletic director puts student-athletes into competition or even practice when their superiors (president, state governor, etc) say it isn't safe for students to be in contact in a classroom environment and even one SA gets sick, that AD should immediately be fired and permanently blacklisted.
I'm with TAMU here. It's about mitigating risk. You could have student athletes living on campus, with their own rooms and private bathrooms, and still taking classes online. As long as they are somewhat isolated, stay that way, and we are into the Phase II of Wisconsin's plan, I see no reason why you couldn't have some segments of students on campus but not others.
A number of campuses are looking at options where they only bring a certain number of students back. This is no different than that.
-
In before the lock, Seton Hall sucks
-
Marquette is looking at coming back early and eliminating october break and spring break and having the kids out of school from december thru february, the flu season and then coming back in march and going thru the end of may.
I have a son at MU, no fin way and i paying $60k next year for him to take classes on zoom. He can do that for $8k and a state school
-
Marquette is looking at coming back early and eliminating october break and spring break and having the kids out of school from december thru february, the flu season and then coming back in march and going thru the end of may.
I have a son at MU, no fin way and i paying $60k next year for him to take classes on zoom. He can do that for $8k and a state school
If MU doesn't open campus beyond virtual learning they will go bankrupt and that is not an alarmist statement, it's a fact.
-
Marquette is looking at coming back early and eliminating october break and spring break and having the kids out of school from december thru february, the flu season and then coming back in march and going thru the end of may.
I have a son at MU, no fin way and i paying $60k next year for him to take classes on zoom. He can do that for $8k and a state school
Source? Not trying to challenge you, just sounds outside of the box and MU isn't exactly known for that type of thinking.
-
Source? Not trying to challenge you, just sounds outside of the box and MU isn't exactly known for that type of thinking.
People who at Marquette have said it. The push is to start in early August.
-
Knot lookin' ta throw ice on y'all's Johnsons, butt know students on kampus from Tanksgivin' 'til Feb., meens know hoops seeson, aina?
-
Source? Not trying to challenge you, just sounds outside of the box and MU isn't exactly known for that type of thinking.
It's not really outside the box. Schools have been considering it. And Lake Superior State just announced today that's the model they are going with next year.
https://www.lssu.edu/news/lake-superior-state-announces-early-start-to-fall-2020-semester/
-
Knot lookin' ta throw ice on y'all's Johnsons, butt know students on kampus from Tanksgivin' 'til Feb., meens know hoops seeson, aina?
Everybody participates in march madness?
-
We're going to hit 80,000 deaths today or tomorrow. We're having a 9/11 level of deaths every two days. But please, go on about how this isn't a big deal and we should encourage greater spread by opening more up.
Goodness.
-
While I could see people opening up for that reason, it's a false choice. Anyone acting like this is a choice between saving the economy or saving lives is being disingenuous at best. The options are either save lives and have a long economic rebuild or kill people and have a long economic rebuild. There is no option that doesn't end with a long (think 5-10 years as best case scenario) economic rebuild, and it's easier to rebuild an economy with a healthy workforce.
The more people we kill in the short term, the harder the economic rebuild will be. But there are definitely those that continue to paint us into a corner with this false choice.
Brew, you’re usually a numbers guy and a pretty good one. The cost of shutting down this economy for 7 weeks has been $3,000,000,000,000, a 25% unemployment rate, thousands of businesses (and God knows how many people) bankrupt or teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. This is staggering, and I don’t disagree that it will likely take years to recover. But to assume we can shut down for another 7 weeks (or longer) without much, much more dire consequences makes no sense. Recovering from a sharp, deep, but relatively short lived recession is difficult. Recovering from a depression is a whole other animal.
-
This will likely end with the cure being worse than the disease. Face it, every day without an effective vaccine will be at significant risk. But, we're all going to have to dip our toes into the water, jump in, and swim. The answer is not to bury yourself in a deep hole until you get the 100% all clear sign, hey?
-
This will likely end with the cure being worse than the disease. Face it, every day without an effective vaccine will be at significant risk.
I’m sure there is a better way. What is the cure? It’s a choice of bad vs worse. Griping won’t make it better.
-
This will likely end with the cure being worse than the disease. Face it, every day without an effective vaccine will be at significant risk. But, we're all going to have to dip our toes into the water, jump in, and swim. The answer is not to bury yourself in a deep hole until you get the 100% all clear sign, hey?
Not many arguing otherwise. Economy has to open and risks have to be mitigated.
-
It's not really outside the box. Schools have been considering it. And Lake Superior State just announced today that's the model they are going with next year.
https://www.lssu.edu/news/lake-superior-state-announces-early-start-to-fall-2020-semester/
Interesting for sure. I figured they’d start second semester later. You’re not even a quarter of the way through winter in the UP in mid January.
-
Brew, you’re usually a numbers guy and a pretty good one. The cost of shutting down this economy for 7 weeks has been $3,000,000,000,000, a 25% unemployment rate, thousands of businesses (and God knows how many people) bankrupt or teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. This is staggering, and I don’t disagree that it will likely take years to recover. But to assume we can shut down for another 7 weeks (or longer) without much, much more dire consequences makes no sense. Recovering from a sharp, deep, but relatively short lived recession is difficult. Recovering from a depression is a whole other animal.
Bringing parts of the economy back, sure, but you have to bring it back slowly and safely. And you have to open up in ways that will help the businesses.
Consider what's happening in Georgia. Kemp reopened restaurants but with guidelines. So a restaurant that was already operating on thin margins is expected to open. Because they are allowed to be open, many employees are no longer eligible for unemployment. The business won't have as much traffic, both because of new restrictions and because many people aren't willing to go out even if the order is lifted. So the business owner that was already working hard to remain profitable can no longer stay shut, no longer has the benefits of unemployment insurance for his employees, and doesn't have the revenue coming in to keep his business going. Opening up will actually kill many businesses that are better off at the moment waiting things out.
This is why we needed strong government intervention from the start. Robust cash disbursements coming every 2-4 weeks like they did in Canada and many European countries. And a plan to bring the economy back in a way that will both make the public feel safe and allow businesses to succeed when they do reopen. You can put an open sign in the window, but that doesn't guarantee success, and in many cases, it's more likely to guarantee failure.
-
I’m watching Nightline right now. They have interviewed owners of restaurants that have reopened on a limited basis... but can’t even fill that limited seating. And restaurants that have extensive takeout capacity are seeing sales far below expectations, so cooks are standing around.
The lesson seems to be that an open business isn’t worth a whole lot if a significant part of its customer base is afraid to show up.
-
In the latest Pew poll of 11,000 American adults, 68% worry their state governments are lifting COVID-19 restrictions too quickly. Meanwhile, only 31% of those polled feel their states are not lifting restrictions quickly enough.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242593036.html?
-
Bringing parts of the economy back, sure, but you have to bring it back slowly and safely. And you have to open up in ways that will help the businesses.
Consider what's happening in Georgia. Kemp reopened restaurants but with guidelines. So a restaurant that was already operating on thin margins is expected to open. Because they are allowed to be open, many employees are no longer eligible for unemployment. The business won't have as much traffic, both because of new restrictions and because many people aren't willing to go out even if the order is lifted. So the business owner that was already working hard to remain profitable can no longer stay shut, no longer has the benefits of unemployment insurance for his employees, and doesn't have the revenue coming in to keep his business going. Opening up will actually kill many businesses that are better off at the moment waiting things out.
This is why we needed strong government intervention from the start. Robust cash disbursements coming every 2-4 weeks like they did in Canada and many European countries. And a plan to bring the economy back in a way that will both make the public feel safe and allow businesses to succeed when they do reopen. You can put an open sign in the window, but that doesn't guarantee success, and in many cases, it's more likely to guarantee failure.
Sorry Brew, think you’re way, way off base here. Just because businesses (like restaurants) won’t be operating at pre covid levels doesn’t mean they’re not better off (for everyone, owner and employees) than they were if shuttered or only open for carry out. “Waiting this out” (though necessary in the short term) has already meant disaster for thousands of small and medium sized businesses. More waiting will just produce more misery.
Unless you call 3 trillion peanuts we’ve already had unprecedented “government intervention” and there will be more to come. But the bigger the hole the government digs the longer it will take to crawl out of it. That’s just common sense.
Our economy was much stronger than Canada’s or Europe’s going into this and will be much stronger coming out - unless we keep it shut down beyond the tipping point. I don’t know exactly when that is - maybe a depression is already inevitable, but I don’t think so. Shut down indefinitely? It’s a done deal.
-
I’m watching Nightline right now. They have interviewed owners of restaurants that have reopened on a limited basis... but can’t even fill that limited seating. And restaurants that have extensive takeout capacity are seeing sales far below expectations, so cooks are standing around.
The lesson seems to be that an open business isn’t worth a whole lot if a significant part of its customer base is afraid to show up.
Demand will be a problem for awhile whenever the re-opening. If you think another month (or 2, or 6 or 12) would mean people would flock to restaurants, salons and shop when they reopen I think you’re living in a dream world.
-
Demand will be a problem for awhile whenever the re-opening. If you think another month (or 2, or 6 or 12) would mean people would flock to restaurants, salons and shop when they reopen I think you’re living in a dream world.
I don’t think that. I think it will take some time whenever they reopen...but it will be slow if people still feel endangered, and much quicker if people feel safe.
-
The key will be jobs. If people are working, the economy will rebound much more quickly. Continuing this asinine shutdown and you'll reach the tipping point of depression, hey?
-
The key will be jobs. If people are working, the economy will rebound much more quickly. Continuing this asinine shutdown and you'll reach the tipping point of depression, hey?
I mean, the "shut down" is going to end. Two weeks from this Tuesday if not earlier. But even in places like Seoul, they had to shut some things back down again because hotspots flared up. That will likely happen here too. And its why large crowds at sporting events won't happen for awhile.
Look, the guy you want to absolve of any blame put out criteria on when states should open up, and you apparently want states not to follow that criteria?
There are really no good answers here. People are going to die. The economy is going to suck. Both are undeniably true. We are going to find out how to balance those two and its going to take some time.
-
Sorry Brew, think you’re way, way off base here. Just because businesses (like restaurants) won’t be operating at pre covid levels doesn’t mean they’re not better off (for everyone, owner and employees) than they were if shuttered or only open for carry out. “Waiting this out” (though necessary in the short term) has already meant disaster for thousands of small and medium sized businesses. More waiting will just produce more misery.
Unless you call 3 trillion peanuts we’ve already had unprecedented “government intervention” and there will be more to come. But the bigger the hole the government digs the longer it will take to crawl out of it. That’s just common sense.
Our economy was much stronger than Canada’s or Europe’s going into this and will be much stronger coming out - unless we keep it shut down beyond the tipping point. I don’t know exactly when that is - maybe a depression is already inevitable, but I don’t think so. Shut down indefinitely? It’s a done deal.
It's disaster for small businesses because of how it was handled federally. And yes, the stimulus was small peanuts. And maybe there will be more to come, but as the first round wasn't adequate ($1200 should last 10 weeks, AYFKM?) why would we expect them to get it right the next time?
And a large scale opening will have us back in this same place in 3 months because nothing has tangibly changed. We don't have a vaccine and we aren't remotely close to the minimum testing we need so how will we end up with anything other than a spike in deaths (which has already been seen) and a return to quarantine in the Fall if not sooner?
Is it better to open up, kill people, and shut down again or open up later in a deliberate and safe manner?
-
I mean, the "shut down" is going to end. Two weeks from this Tuesday if not earlier. But even in places like Seoul, they had to shut some things back down again because hotspots flared up. That will likely happen here too. And its why large crowds at sporting events won't happen for awhile.
Look, the guy you want to absolve of any blame put out criteria on when states should open up, and you apparently want states not to follow that criteria?
There are really no good answers here. People are going to die. The economy is going to suck. Both are undeniably true. We are going to find out how to balance those two and its going to take some time.
Ding, ding, ding
A lot of this could have been avoided if the folks in Washington had taken this seriously but narcissism ruled the day. The buck stops here until I have to make tough decisions
-
I mean, the "shut down" is going to end. Two weeks from this Tuesday if not earlier. But even in places like Seoul, they had to shut some things back down again because hotspots flared up. That will likely happen here too. And its why large crowds at sporting events won't happen for awhile.
Look, the guy you want to absolve of any blame put out criteria on when states should open up, and you apparently want states not to follow that criteria?
There are really no good answers here. People are going to die. The economy is going to suck. Both are undeniably true. We are going to find out how to balance those two and its going to take some time.
I live in Virginia and our governor is also a physician. Last night he edged closer to a limited reopening in Virginia but also stated that this virus may be with us for many months and maybe even for years. He reminded everyone that there is no guarantee of a vaccine anytime soon. I like that our state CEO is also a physician. I think that Brew is getting a little roughed up here. Solid and compassionate argument. That does not mean I am in complete agreement with him but I get what he said and he said it very well.
I am clearly in the virus high risk category yet I want the food supply line to be uninterrupted, I want the economy to bounce back as quickly as possible (agree that a certain amount of long term damage has already been done), and I want a lot of other things including a college basketball season. Asking others to risk their lives and perhaps their health is the epitome of selfishness.
Getting back to the bolded: there are no good answers here. Maybe that is the one thing we can agree on. TAMU's comment about the economy trumping health concerns is the most realistic, non-judgemental assessment I have read here.
-
Xavier just announced via Facebook this am that it is planning on having students in the fall.
-
I live in Virginia and our governor is also a physician. Last night he edged closer to a limited reopening in Virginia but also stated that this virus may be with us for many months and maybe even for years. He reminded everyone that there is no guarantee of a vaccine anytime soon. I like that our state CEO is also a physician. I think that Brew is getting a little roughed up here. Solid and compassionate argument. That does not mean I am in complete agreement with him but I get what he said and he said it very well.
I am clearly in the virus high risk category yet I want the food supply line to be uninterrupted, I want the economy to bounce back as quickly as possible (agree that a certain amount of long term damage has already been done), and I want a lot of other things including a college basketball season. Asking others to risk their lives and perhaps their health is the epitome of selfishness.
Getting back to the bolded: there are no good answers here. Maybe that is the one thing we can agree on. TAMU's comment about the economy trumping health concerns is the most realistic, non-judgemental assessment I have read here.
No good answers is right, but economy vs health is a false choice when the economy relies on a healthy labor force and restarting the economy will have the opposite effect.
This has been mismanaged at the top since December and the idea of trying to suppress CDC guidelines about safely reopening when we are still seeing 2,000 deaths per day is ludicrous. We are headed for an unemployment crunch that will conservatively take 5 years to get out of (14.7% unemployment, typically an economy is able to gain back about 1.5% per year in good times, so 5 years is very optimistic) and we've done nothing to strengthen our healthcare system. We need both for this to work. We need healthcare plans and testing in place in order for the economy to function safely and grow efficiently. I don't get how that is so difficult for people to comprehend.
I'm seeing this every day. I'm seeing the effects of this on real actual human beings every single day. This is real and anyone saying otherwise is either selling something or outright lying, more likely both. So how should we get back to reality as we knew it? Slowly, carefully, and with plenty of safety measures in place. Because the alternative is going right back here in a few months. Though I guess we'll do it with fewer mouths to feed.
-
This has killed more Americans (72,000) than died from suicide (47,000) and drug overdoes (67,000) in all of 2018.
-
I mean, the "shut down" is going to end. Two weeks from this Tuesday if not earlier. But even in places like Seoul, they had to shut some things back down again because hotspots flared up. That will likely happen here too. And its why large crowds at sporting events won't happen for awhile.
Look, the guy you want to absolve of any blame put out criteria on when states should open up, and you apparently want states not to follow that criteria?
There are really no good answers here. People are going to die. The economy is going to suck. Both are undeniably true. We are going to find out how to balance those two and its going to take some time.
Yep.
People don't think there will be a rollback after we reopen, but experience in other places says there will. And the more widespread the virus when we reopen, the sooner we will need to start closing things up again. I would rather wait a bit longer (the President's/CDC's criteria), so we can keep things open for a while and people feel safer. Others would rather open sooner...which means customers will be afraid to go out and we'll have to close things back up a lot sooner.
A balancing act. I favor waiting until the majority of the country says they are ready to be customers again....
-
Yep.
People don't think there will be a rollback after we reopen, but experience in other places says there will. And the more widespread the virus when we reopen, the sooner we will need to start closing things up again. I would rather wait a bit longer (the President's/CDC's criteria), so we can keep things open for a while and people feel safer. Others would rather open sooner...which means customers will be afraid to go out and we'll have to close things back up a lot sooner.
A balancing act. I favor waiting until the majority of the country says they are ready to be customers again....
I think you will have to open up even if people aren't ready and let them go out on their own and find their own level of comfort. I would be fine if Wisconsin's order is shortened and we try to strike a balance sooner rather than later.
-
Yeah. Wait until a majority of the public thinks we should reopen. That's using the expertise of the health and economic professions optimally. If we wait too long, there will be fewer paying customers and fewer businesses for them to patronize.
-
No good answers is right, but economy vs health is a false choice when the economy relies on a healthy labor force and restarting the economy will have the opposite effect.
This has been mismanaged at the top since December and the idea of trying to suppress CDC guidelines about safely reopening when we are still seeing 2,000 deaths per day is ludicrous. We are headed for an unemployment crunch that will conservatively take 5 years to get out of (14.7% unemployment, typically an economy is able to gain back about 1.5% per year in good times, so 5 years is very optimistic) and we've done nothing to strengthen our healthcare system. We need both for this to work. We need healthcare plans and testing in place in order for the economy to function safely and grow efficiently. I don't get how that is so difficult for people to comprehend.
I'm seeing this every day. I'm seeing the effects of this on real actual human beings every single day. This is real and anyone saying otherwise is either selling something or outright lying, more likely both. So how should we get back to reality as we knew it? Slowly, carefully, and with plenty of safety measures in place. Because the alternative is going right back here in a few months. Though I guess we'll do it with fewer mouths to feed.
You know what's not real however?? The # of deaths that are reported as being due to Covid-19 that are actually NOT because of Covid-19. I have this from an incredibly reliable source who has been a nurse for almost 30 years. She flat out told me, a lot of hospitals are labeling it "death to covid-19" because A. they either want to because they have an agenda, or B. because their are no autopsies being done, so there is no proof to the general public that it wasn't due to Covid-19. She told me she has had at least 50 patients die during this time that were 100% NOT due to Covid-19, but hospital administrators told them to "label it as Covid-19". For the record, she's a liberal. Why this info would shock anyone is beyond me, other than the fact that they themselves have an agenda.
-
I think you will have to open up even if people aren't ready and let them go out on their own and find their own level of comfort. I would be fine if Wisconsin's order is shortened and we try to strike a balance sooner rather than later.
Agreed.
I never said we need 100% of the country ready...but I think it needs too be a heck of a lot higher than the ~30% we have today. IMHO if we follow the three-phase criteria, it would strike the right balance...less than 100%, but a lot higher than 30%.
-
I think you will have to open up even if people aren't ready and let them go out on their own and find their own level of comfort. I would be fine if Wisconsin's order is shortened and we try to strike a balance sooner rather than later.
I'm actually pretty impressed here Fluffy I must say. Seems you have come a long way on this since the beginning. I'm impressed. This isn't anywhere close to the stance I'd see you taking. *standing applause*
-
You know what's not real however?? The # of deaths that are reported as being due to Covid-19 that are actually NOT because of Covid-19. I have this from an incredibly reliable source who has been a nurse for almost 30 years. She flat out told me, a lot of hospitals are labeling it "death to covid-19" because A. they either want to because they have an agenda, or B. because their are no autopsies being done, so there is no proof to the general public that it wasn't due to Covid-19. She told me she has had at least 50 patients die during this time that were 100% NOT due to Covid-19, but hospital administrators told them to "label it as Covid-19". For the record, she's a liberal. Why this info would shock anyone is beyond me, other than the fact that they themselves have an agenda.
Inaccuracies, sure. But there is a lot more underreporting than overreporting, because we still aren't testing anywhere near all symptomatic patients. On balance, I'd bet we are closer to 100,000 than people realize....
-
I still have never understood why we haven't just isolated the higher risk/elderly from the very beginning and let the world continue around them, of course with the understanding that those family members of the high risk people know what they'd be getting into and taking proper precautions etc. That seemed like the easiest solution all along.
-
You know what's not real however?? The # of deaths that are reported as being due to Covid-19 that are actually NOT because of Covid-19. I have this from an incredibly reliable source who has been a nurse for almost 30 years. She flat out told me, a lot of hospitals are labeling it "death to covid-19" because A. they either want to because they have an agenda, or B. because their are no autopsies being done, so there is no proof to the general public that it wasn't due to Covid-19. She told me she has had at least 50 patients die during this time that were 100% NOT due to Covid-19, but hospital administrators told them to "label it as Covid-19". For the record, she's a liberal. Why this info would shock anyone is beyond me, other than the fact that they themselves have an agenda.
This is not the first time I've heard about this.
-
I'm actually pretty impressed here Fluffy I must say. Seems you have come a long way on this since the beginning. I'm impressed. This isn't anywhere close to the stance I'd see you taking. *standing applause*
My stance hasn't changed at all really. I've said we have to flatten the curve by shutting down. I've said that I think Evers' orders to go past Memorial Day were understandable, but too long in the end. I think large crowds at sporting events are a long way off. And I think iignoring the threat early on, and nconsistent, to downright awful, messaging from the top has hampered our efforts from the beginning and continues to do so.
-
You know what's not real however?? The # of deaths that are reported as being due to Covid-19 that are actually NOT because of Covid-19. I have this from an incredibly reliable source who has been a nurse for almost 30 years. She flat out told me, a lot of hospitals are labeling it "death to covid-19" because A. they either want to because they have an agenda, or B. because their are no autopsies being done, so there is no proof to the general public that it wasn't due to Covid-19. She told me she has had at least 50 patients die during this time that were 100% NOT due to Covid-19, but hospital administrators told them to "label it as Covid-19". For the record, she's a liberal. Why this info would shock anyone is beyond me, other than the fact that they themselves have an agenda.
I'm sure there are inaccuracies no doubt. But I really doubt your "incredibly reliable source" has much in the way of knowledge beyond her local situation. Look what is happening in New York with refrigerated trucks and the like. How much do you think that is simply a lot of people dying coincidently at the same time as a global pandemic?
This is not the first time I've heard about this.
I've seen it a lot on bogus conspiracy videos myself.
-
I love that the shut down is being considered “asinine.” Pretty much every major country in the world has shut down at some point. We want to put every ounce of blame on China for duping Donald Trump so hey, can’t be Donald’s fault, for anything! Yet China shut down major, major cities. But the US shouldn’t have to do that! Liberate us!
What’s asinine is how uncoordinated the shut downs have been because of the complete lack of leadership at the top.
-
I've seen it a lot on bogus conspiracy videos myself.
I really don't seek out the videos, so I can't say on that level.
-
I still have never understood why we haven't just isolated the higher risk/elderly/obese people/smokers/cancer patients/people with heart or lung disease from the very beginning and let the world continue around them, of course with the understanding that those family members of the high risk people know what they'd be getting into and taking proper precautions etc. That seemed like the easiest solution all along.
Fixed the definition of high risk for you...and just cut your pool of potential customers by about 2/3. Obesity alone would eliminate between 25-33% of adults in America...and evidence is emerging that obesity may be the biggest risk factor other than age for severe illness with COVID.
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/prevalence-maps.html#overall
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/covid-19-studies-obesity-boosts-risk-diagnosing-health-workers
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid19-obesity-risk-factor
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-52561757
-
I love that the shut down is being considered “asinine.” Pretty much every major country in the world has shut down at some point. We want to put ever ounce of blame on China for duping Donald Trump so hey, can’t be Donald’s fault, for anything! Yet China shut down major, major cities. But the US shouldn’t have to do that! Liberate us!
What’s asinine is how uncoordinated the shut downs have been because of the complete lack of leadership at the top.
When your leader cares only about himself and how he looks versus actually leading, you’re doomed to failure at some point. The greatest fear of electing a con man is when real life choices have to be made. We failed miserably at the federal level and the bailouts from the legislature are a laughable farce.
I’m for opening things up and I would go to sporting events. I’d also happily wear a mask at the minimum and take all necessary precautions. Unfortunately, many won’t and that’s why this is a long way from being over. Consistent messaging from the top would help, but that will not happen because it’s impossible for this administration not to frame it without airing grievances or making tough decisions
-
When your leader cares only about himself and how he looks versus actually leading, you’re doomed to failure at some point. The greatest fear of electing a con man is when real life choices have to be made. We failed miserably at the federal level and the bailouts from the legislature are a laughable farce.
I’m for opening things up and I would go to sporting events. I’d also happily wear a mask at the minimum and take all necessary precautions. Unfortunately, many won’t and that’s why this is a long way from being over. Consistent messaging from the top would help, but that will not happen because it’s impossible for this administration not to frame it without airing grievances or making tough decisions
:)
-
Xavier just announced via Facebook this am that it is planning on having students in the fall.
Most schools are saying that right now to make sure they get deposits from incoming freshmen. If they do have classes it will be in a very different format. No more packing 25 kids in a room, for class.
-
Most schools are saying that right now to make sure they get deposits from incoming freshmen. If they do have classes it will be in a very different format. No more packing 25 kids in a room, for class.
Yep. And honestly most schools are planning to have students back in the fall. But I can guarantee you that Xavier has all sorts of contingency plans they are working on.
Just like the NFL is planning for business as normal this season but are clearly working on contingencies.
-
Yep. And honestly most schools are planning to have students back in the fall. But I can guarantee you that Xavier has all sorts of contingency plans they are working on.
Just like the NFL is planning for business as normal this season but are clearly working on contingencies.
The problem is I think, is that if schools aren't back on campus in the fall, parents won't enroll their kids at that school if the classes are going to be online. Why would they?? As Sand Knit noted, they could do that at a much lessor cost at a different "online" school. If enrollments are devastated by this(no students on campus), schools are in BIG BIG trouble, and they know it.
-
I love that the shut down is being considered “asinine.” Pretty much every major country in the world has shut down at some point. We want to put every ounce of blame on China for duping Donald Trump so hey, can’t be Donald’s fault, for anything! Yet China shut down major, major cities. But the US shouldn’t have to do that! Liberate us!
What’s asinine is how uncoordinated the shut downs have been because of the complete lack of leadership at the top.
I'm not sure what amazes me more, how the "liberal" media has convinced virtually every developed country in the world to kill citizens and shut down their economies just to stick it to one guy in America, or how the idea of people having to stay home is so hard they have to storm capital buildings and threaten police with long rifles because "freedom."
This was an easy win for the government. Use the DPA in January and February to ramp up testing and PPE production as soon as we had the first case. Start a UBI every 2 weeks once things started to shut down in March so people would have a financial lifeline. Guarantee financial protection to businesses that kept their employees on to prevent the unemployment rate from skyrocketing. Convert additional field hospitals in hot spots to contain and provide specialized treatment for the infected. And have a plan for reopening instituted and vetted by the CDC before allowing things to fire back up.
Instead, we looked at what was happening in China, Italy, and Spain and did...nothing. Nothing but blame others for our own failings while the death toll rose. Nothing but create conspiracy theories to convince ourselves it wasn't real despite us having more confirmed cases than Italy, Spain, the UK, Germany, Russia, and France combined. What a shambles we are.
-
The problem is I think, is that if schools aren't back on campus in the fall, parents won't enroll their kids at that school if the classes are going to be online. Why would they?? As Sand Knit noted, they could do that at a much lessor cost at a different "online" school. If enrollments are devastated by this(no students on campus), schools are in BIG BIG trouble, and they know it.
The biggest moneymaker for colleges is traditionally the residence halls. What happens there? Can you have doubles, triples and quads? Classes are one thing but the halls are the biggest issue. Can two guys socially distance in an O’Donnell double? If you have to reduce residence hall capacity how can you accommodate enough students?
A friend at a fellow BE school is predicting a 30% drop in freshman enrollment this upcoming year at his institution. Hard to say right now if that will happen but unless there are some serious developments I think we see numbers closer to that percentage than further from it. This is the generation of helicopter and bulldozer parents after all.
-
The problem is I think, is that if schools aren't back on campus in the fall, parents won't enroll their kids at that school if the classes are going to be online. Why would they?? As Sand Knit noted, they could do that at a much lessor cost at a different "online" school. If enrollments are devastated by this(no students on campus), schools are in BIG BIG trouble, and they know it.
Yep. The economic circumstances for many schools would be dire.
-
Yep. The economic circumstances for many schools would be dire.
I think "will" is more likely than "would" at this point. This is why we should have robust federal funding. We've learned in the past 4 years that deficits aren't actually a thing anyone cares about, so the feed just needs to pay the bill.
-
I'm not sure what amazes me more, how the "liberal" media has convinced virtually every developed country in the world to kill citizens and shut down their economies just to stick it to one guy in America, or how the idea of people having to stay home is so hard they have to storm capital buildings and threaten police with long rifles because "freedom."
This was an easy win for the government. Use the DPA in January and February to ramp up testing and PPE production as soon as we had the first case. Start a UBI every 2 weeks once things started to shut down in March so people would have a financial lifeline. Guarantee financial protection to businesses that kept their employees on to prevent the unemployment rate from skyrocketing. Convert additional field hospitals in hot spots to contain and provide specialized treatment for the infected. And have a plan for reopening instituted and vetted by the CDC before allowing things to fire back up.
Instead, we looked at what was happening in China, Italy, and Spain and did...nothing. Nothing but blame others for our own failings while the death toll rose. Nothing but create conspiracy theories to convince ourselves it wasn't real despite us having more confirmed cases than Italy, Spain, the UK, Germany, Russia, and France combined. What a shambles we are.
Spoken like a man well versed in emergency planning, incident command, and who has spent a career having every command decision made near him or by him ruthlessly vetted by peers and standards. One who knows all about accountability and learning from mistakes to hopefully not repeat them.
-
I'm not sure what amazes me more, how the "liberal" media has convinced virtually every developed country in the world to kill citizens and shut down their economies just to stick it to one guy in America, or how the idea of people having to stay home is so hard they have to storm capital buildings and threaten police with long rifles because "freedom."
This was an easy win for the government. Use the DPA in January and February to ramp up testing and PPE production as soon as we had the first case. Start a UBI every 2 weeks once things started to shut down in March so people would have a financial lifeline. Guarantee financial protection to businesses that kept their employees on to prevent the unemployment rate from skyrocketing. Convert additional field hospitals in hot spots to contain and provide specialized treatment for the infected. And have a plan for reopening instituted and vetted by the CDC before allowing things to fire back up.
Instead, we looked at what was happening in China, Italy, and Spain and did...nothing. Nothing but blame others for our own failings while the death toll rose. Nothing but create conspiracy theories to convince ourselves it wasn't real despite us having more confirmed cases than Italy, Spain, the UK, Germany, Russia, and France combined. What a shambles we are.
Yup.
-
I'm not sure what amazes me more, how the "liberal" media has convinced virtually every developed country in the world to kill citizens and shut down their economies just to stick it to one guy in America, or how the idea of people having to stay home is so hard they have to storm capital buildings and threaten police with long rifles because "freedom."
This was an easy win for the government. Use the DPA in January and February to ramp up testing and PPE production as soon as we had the first case. Start a UBI every 2 weeks once things started to shut down in March so people would have a financial lifeline. Guarantee financial protection to businesses that kept their employees on to prevent the unemployment rate from skyrocketing. Convert additional field hospitals in hot spots to contain and provide specialized treatment for the infected. And have a plan for reopening instituted and vetted by the CDC before allowing things to fire back up.
Instead, we looked at what was happening in China, Italy, and Spain and did...nothing. Nothing but blame others for our own failings while the death toll rose. Nothing but create conspiracy theories to convince ourselves it wasn't real despite us having more confirmed cases than Italy, Spain, the UK, Germany, Russia, and France combined. What a shambles we are.
It’ find it incredibly frustrating that we could be doing even more right now and even chalk it up as ‘infrastructure spending’ to get us prepared for it coming back in the winter. We could be spending billions and billions to help mitigate the economic impact and it would still be totally worthwhile. Instead we’re doubling down on our lack of preparedness.
-
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/economic-expert-with-perfect-record-calling-recessions-is-betting-this-one-will-be-over-by-the-end-of-2020-2020-05-06?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo
-
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/economic-expert-with-perfect-record-calling-recessions-is-betting-this-one-will-be-over-by-the-end-of-2020-2020-05-06?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo
I hope he's right guru. Better yet, let's hope it's a little before the end of the year. Wednesday, November 4 would be the ideal vaccine and economic turnaround point.
-
I love that the shut down is being considered “asinine.” Pretty much every major country in the world has shut down at some point. We want to put every ounce of blame on China for duping Donald Trump so hey, can’t be Donald’s fault, for anything! Yet China shut down major, major cities. But the US shouldn’t have to do that! Liberate us!
What’s asinine is how uncoordinated the shut downs have been because of the complete lack of leadership at the top.
Please, no logic here. That will make it too difficult for some. I prefer to believe people with anonymous reliable sources.
-
I'm not sure what amazes me more, how the "liberal" media has convinced virtually every developed country in the world to kill citizens and shut down their economies just to stick it to one guy in America, or how the idea of people having to stay home is so hard they have to storm capital buildings and threaten police with long rifles because "freedom."
This was an easy win for the government. Use the DPA in January and February to ramp up testing and PPE production as soon as we had the first case. Start a UBI every 2 weeks once things started to shut down in March so people would have a financial lifeline. Guarantee financial protection to businesses that kept their employees on to prevent the unemployment rate from skyrocketing. Convert additional field hospitals in hot spots to contain and provide specialized treatment for the infected. And have a plan for reopening instituted and vetted by the CDC before allowing things to fire back up.
Instead, we looked at what was happening in China, Italy, and Spain and did...nothing. Nothing but blame others for our own failings while the death toll rose. Nothing but create conspiracy theories to convince ourselves it wasn't real despite us having more confirmed cases than Italy, Spain, the UK, Germany, Russia, and France combined. What a shambles we are.
Just because you see this through your lens, Brew, doesn't mean it is correct.
Many disagree with you and sorry if you fail to see the human suffering of the shutdown.
-
Just because you see this through your lens, Brew, doesn't mean it is correct.
Many disagree with you and sorry if you fail to see the human suffering of the shutdown.
EDIT: Sorry, my initial response was aggravated and poor.
Full disclosure, or as full as I can give: I am currently running a COVID specific unit and have been in meetings regarding these specific patients and cases for the better part of two months. When duty calls, I know exactly what I'm going to every time and it is going to see the human suffering of this pandemic. I have had to keep a woman from hugging her deceased husband one last time because of the risk of carrying the infection to the rest of her family. I have stood by as a mother explained to her grade-school children that their father was dead far earlier than he should have been. I have dozens of friends that have been placed on quarantine due to exposure and more that have contracted the disease.
The human suffering of the shutdown is my every day. Please, respectfully, don't try to say I'm not seeing the human suffering. It's damn near all I see.
-
I still have never understood why we haven't just isolated the higher risk/elderly from the very beginning and let the world continue around them, of course with the understanding that those family members of the high risk people know what they'd be getting into and taking proper precautions etc. That seemed like the easiest solution all along.
Because immunity has not been able to be confirmed after you recover. And you don't need an autopsy, they use a skin and blood sample from deceased and you can confirm positive infection.
-
This is not the first time I've heard about this.
It is a debunked conspiracy theory.
-
Because immunity has not been able to be confirmed after you recover. And you don't need an autopsy, they use a skin and blood sample from deceased and you can confirm positive infection.
That kind of isolation also isn't really possible. Those elderly and high risk patients still need to have some interactions with the outside world, whether it's deliveries, caregivers, or other individuals. We can't stick them in carbonite. And while it's nice to think those things are completely safe, they aren't. People get lazy. I've seen hospital ERs where the staff doesn't wear their masks, nursing homes where providers don't change gloves as they go from room to room, and policies change so fast that it can be hard to stay current with best practices so even well-intentioned caregivers can make mistakes if they missed an email or were off a couple days. And one mistake can lead to spread within that community, especially in a nursing home or assisted living facility.
-
It is a debunked conspiracy theory.
Debunked by who?? Who you want to believe?? I gave you a well sourced fact that this is happening, and she's in a high enough position that she sees numbers and has contacts in many different hospitals across the country. This is a real life thing that is happening whether you want to believe it or not. Not only that but I heard a national radio guy say a couple of days ago that he had two relatives die from what they "labeled" covid-19, but said he knows for a fact that isn't what they died from. Quite frankly it's disgusting and abhorrent that people would go to these extremes to push an agenda, but the world we live in now, it's filled with agenda driven people that have HATE for one individual and will do anything to try to take him down. FACT.
-
Debunked by who?? Who you want to believe?? I gave you a well sourced fact that this is happening, and she's in a high enough position that she sees numbers and has contacts in many different hospitals across the country. This is a real life thing that is happening whether you want to believe it or not. Not only that but I heard a national radio guy say a couple of days ago that he had two relatives die from what they "labeled" covid-19, but said he knows for a fact that isn't what they died from. Quite frankly it's disgusting and abhorrent that people would go to these extremes to push an agenda, but the world we live in now, it's filled with agenda driven people that have HATE for one individual and will do anything to try to take him down. FACT.
Because it is the new spin being put forth to try to adjust for the bad response. It is a known fact that it is next course of action. Actually since the first cases are now traced to January and there was a surge in pneumonia deaths in many areas they might revise and test for the virus accordingly. And it is easy to debunk the theory. Go look at normal death rates and what is happening, there is a huge spike. We will have near 100k dead by end of May and around 200k by August. And I did deal with that certain individual late 80's and early 90's.
-
Debunked by who?? Who you want to believe?? I gave you a well sourced fact that this is happening, and she's in a high enough position that she sees numbers and has contacts in many different hospitals across the country. This is a real life thing that is happening whether you want to believe it or not. Not only that but I heard a national radio guy say a couple of days ago that he had two relatives die from what they "labeled" covid-19, but said he knows for a fact that isn't what they died from. Quite frankly it's disgusting and abhorrent that people would go to these extremes to push an agenda, but the world we live in now, it's filled with agenda driven people that have HATE for one individual and will do anything to try to take him down. FACT.
You didn’t answer this question before. How do you explain the refrigerated trucks in New York if the death count is exaggerated? Do you think a bunch of people coincidently died?
I really doubt you know someone who has more than a narrow knowledge of what she is talking about. And I think you are diving way too far into bizarre conspiracy theories.
And Trumps horrendous performance goes well beyond the death toll.
-
You didn’t answer this question before. How do you explain the refrigerated trucks in New York if the death count is exaggerated? Do you think a bunch of people coincidently died?
I really doubt you know someone who has more than a narrow knowledge of what she is talking about. And I think you are diving way too far into bizarre conspiracy theories.
And Trumps horrendous performance goes well beyond the death toll.
I never said that every single case is being mislabeled, there are people dying from Covid-19, but there are also many many others that are dying from things that are not related to covid-19 that are being labeled as such, but the times we live in now, it's easy to say that, and the gullible part of society believes it and they leave it at that(They say it so it must be true).
-
I never said that every single case is being mislabeled, there are people dying from Covid-19, but there are also many many others that are dying from things that are not related to covid-19 that are being labeled as such, but the times we live in now, it's easy to say that, and the gullible part of society believes it and they leave it at that(They say it so it must be true).
Well someone is certainly being gullible here...
-
but there are also many many others
I heard it was four many’s big
-
How did this thread dissolve into a covid-19 and Trump bashing thread anyway?? Can we get back to talking about having students on campus etc.
-
How did this thread dissolve into a covid-19 and Trump bashing thread anyway?? Can we get back to talking about having students on campus etc.
Because having students on campus requires people feeling reasonably safe from COVID-19 and the reason they don't is because of inadequate action from 45. The three things are inextricably linked.
If we had enough testing, it would help to contain the virus and insure people felt safe from COVID-19 which would allow students to return more safely to campus. It's not thread dissolution but rather a natural evolution.
-
Isn't there a COVID thread elsewhere?
IMO, the Big East is in a pretty strong spot in advance of basketball season. Since none of us sponsor football at the FBS levels, the schools can truly take a wait and see approach with what college football ends up looking like, and then making the necessary adjustments if needed. College football will definitely happen in the Fall, in some form or another.
If, for example, St. John's and Seton Hall, due to their location, are unable to play this season, I strongly doubt the conference would instruct teams to fold-up their seasons as well. I also wonder what the "back-up" site for the BET would be next year. Considering their numbers, I wonder if Creighton (Omaha) would be considered.
-
Isn't there a COVID thread elsewhere?
IMO, the Big East is in a pretty strong spot in advance of basketball season. Since none of us sponsor football at the FBS levels, the schools can truly take a wait and see approach with what college football ends up looking like, and then making the necessary adjustments if needed. College football will definitely happen in the Fall, in some form or another.
If, for example, St. John's and Seton Hall, due to their location, are unable to play this season, I strongly doubt the conference would instruct teams to fold-up their seasons as well. I also wonder what the "back-up" site for the BET would be next year. Considering their numbers, I wonder if Creighton (Omaha) would be considered.
Reserving a public venue on a short time frame could be difficult.
-
Because having students on campus requires people feeling reasonably safe from COVID-19 and the reason they don't is because of inadequate action from 45. The three things are inextricably linked.
If we had enough testing, it would help to contain the virus and insure people felt safe from COVID-19 which would allow students to return more safely to campus. It's not thread dissolution but rather a natural evolution.
I'm one person so obviously I can only speak for myself, but I am in the "high risk" group in more ways then one, and I haven't let this change how I do things. My employer is requiring wearing masks starting Monday and that does not sit well with me at all. I could get it anywhere at anytime, and if I do, I do. If it's my time to go...not much I can do about it.
-
I'm one person so obviously I can only speak for myself, but I am in the "high risk" group in more ways then one, and I haven't let this change how I do things. My employer is requiring wearing masks starting Monday and that does not sit well with me at all. I could get it anywhere at anytime, and if I do, I do. If it's my time to go...not much I can do about it.
The mask isn't for you. It's for other people. It's so you don't spread the disease while asymptomatic. Current CDC guidelines say if 80% of the population wore masks that were 60% effective, it would virtually eliminate the spread.
Ultimately, this comes down to one thing: do you give a s**t about any other human beings you interact with? If yes, just suck up your pride and wear the damn mask.
-
And there, in purest terms, is the crux of the debate, hell, society at large.
What I want vs what is best for the most people.
Facts vs what I believe.
-
I'm one person so obviously I can only speak for myself, but I am in the "high risk" group in more ways then one, and I haven't let this change how I do things. My employer is requiring wearing masks starting Monday and that does not sit well with me at all. I could get it anywhere at anytime, and if I do, I do. If it's my time to go...not much I can do about it.
You wearing a mask may have help someone else avoid it. You could be a carrier and not know it.
It's beyond me how American's can feel so threatened when told to do something. My grandmother went through the death of her father at age 7 (the oldest child) with a Polish speaking mother, quitting school at that time and working and living in a boarding house during the week, 2 world wars, Spanish and Polio epidemics and never complained about it and frankly, never bitched about anything other her utility bill being too high.
Suck it up buttercup.
-
You wearing a mask may have help someone else avoid it. You could be a carrier and not know it.
It's beyond me how American's can feel so threatened when told to do something. My grandmother went through the death of her father at age 7 (the oldest child) with a Polish speaking mother, quitting school at that time and working and living in a boarding house during the week, 2 world wars, Spanish and Polio epidemics and never complained about it and frankly, never bitched about anything other her utility bill being too high.
Suck it up buttercup.
Listen, having to wear a mask is part of a vast conspiracy
-
You wearing a mask may have help someone else avoid it. You could be a carrier and not know it.
It's beyond me how American's can feel so threatened when told to do something. My grandmother went through the death of her father at age 7 (the oldest child) with a Polish speaking mother, quitting school at that time and working and living in a boarding house during the week, 2 world wars, Spanish and Polio epidemics and never complained about it and frankly, never bitched about anything other her utility bill being too high.
Suck it up buttercup.
If I was carrying it, believe me, I'd know, I'd be sick...very sick if not dead. My point is, masks or no masks(and there are many studies that say masks aren't as effective as people believe), all the hand washing in the world, and people can STILL get it. You, I or anyone could get it from simply going to the grocery store, or work or wherever.
-
Listen, having to wear a mask is part of a vast conspiracy
And it’s against our civil liberties. You know, the rights of free speech, religion and to be selfish.
-
If I was carrying it, believe me, I'd know, I'd be sick...very sick if not dead. My point is, masks or no masks(and there are many studies that say masks aren't as effective as people believe), all the hand washing in the world, and people can STILL get it. You, I or anyone could get it from simply going to the grocery store, or work or wherever.
It’s called minimizing risk.
-
Never mind.
-
And it’s against our civil liberties. You know, the rights of free speech, religion and to be selfish.
Civil liberties don’t apply to everyone
-
And it’s against our civil liberties. You know, the rights of free speech, religion and to be selfish.
How about freedom of choice?? So people say it's not about me(even though if I get it, I'd likely die), it's about other people, when I'd be willing to bet most of the people that are TERRIFIED of getting this are healthy people that are low risk?? Makes sense. It started with the last occupant in the WH where we have our freedoms and rights trampled on, and told it's not important, but others rights are. Where terrible rules/laws and regulations were crammed down our throats and told we WILL/HAVE to accept this. Now, the same party wants to keep america down that path. You wonder why we got p*issed off and rose up and took the country back??
-
Listen, having to wear a mask is part of a vast conspiracy
You seem like such an angry Bernie supporter.
-
You seem like such an angry Bernie supporter.
Nah, I’m just a dude who cares about his fellow citizens and wears a mask in public
-
And Trumps horrendous performance goes well beyond the death toll.
The agenda is revealed.
-
The agenda is revealed.
The truth is an agenda?
-
How about freedom of choice?? So people say it's not about me(even though if I get it, I'd likely die), it's about other people, when I'd be willing to bet most of the people that are TERRIFIED of getting this are healthy people that are low risk?? Makes sense. It started with the last occupant in the WH where we have our freedoms and rights trampled on, and told it's not important, but others rights are. Where terrible rules/laws and regulations were crammed down our throats and told we WILL/HAVE to accept this. Now, the same party wants to keep america down that path. You wonder why we got p*issed off and rose up and took the country back??
If you want I can go into some detail about the history of the federal government telling us what to do that wasn’t considered in violation of the Bill of Rights. And if you think Obama was bad, and it started with him, you have a serious lack of understanding of American history and the Constitution.
-
If I was carrying it, believe me, I'd know, I'd be sick...very sick if not dead. My point is, masks or no masks(and there are many studies that say masks aren't as effective as people believe), all the hand washing in the world, and people can STILL get it. You, I or anyone could get it from simply going to the grocery store, or work or wherever.
Ummm...perhaps you missed the million or so articles that make it clear you can carry COVID and shed the virus for as long as 14 days before symptoms appear.
The mask is to protect others during those 14 days.
Sorry if the facts aren’t convenient for you.
-
The truth is an agenda?
Okay, you go with that. I didn't vote for Trump but I can see through political bias.
Also, I personally know 2 doctors that had causes of death changed to Covid when it was not a factor. Maybe that's the only two but I doubt it.
-
Okay, you go with that. I didn't vote for Trump but I can see through political bias.
Also, I personally know 2 doctors that had causes of death changed to Covid when it was not a factor. Maybe that's the only two but I doubt it.
Who changed them...also curious why were they changed if you know.
-
I don't doubt that some deaths are incorrectly labeled as COVID related, but there's a zero percent chance the amount is higher than those who died due to COVID outside a hospital and were never diagnosed. The number of COVID related deaths is undoubtedly higher than the "confirmed" number.
-
Okay, you go with that. I didn't vote for Trump but I can see through political bias.
Also, I personally know 2 doctors that had causes of death changed to Covid when it was not a factor. Maybe that's the only two but I doubt it.
Oooo. You're smart AND you know two doctors??? Wow!!!!
-
Nah, I’m just a dude who cares about his fellow citizens and wears a mask in public
Unless they are the "evil", "rich" bastards that work for the NCAA right??
-
I'm not sure what amazes me more, how the "liberal" media has convinced virtually every developed country in the world to kill citizens and shut down their economies just to stick it to one guy in America, or how the idea of people having to stay home is so hard they have to storm capital buildings and threaten police with long rifles because "freedom."
This was an easy win for the government. Use the DPA in January and February to ramp up testing and PPE production as soon as we had the first case. Start a UBI every 2 weeks once things started to shut down in March so people would have a financial lifeline. Guarantee financial protection to businesses that kept their employees on to prevent the unemployment rate from skyrocketing. Convert additional field hospitals in hot spots to contain and provide specialized treatment for the infected. And have a plan for reopening instituted and vetted by the CDC before allowing things to fire back up.
Instead, we looked at what was happening in China, Italy, and Spain and did...nothing. Nothing but blame others for our own failings while the death toll rose. Nothing but create conspiracy theories to convince ourselves it wasn't real despite us having more confirmed cases than Italy, Spain, the UK, Germany, Russia, and France combined. What a shambles we are.
There are no easy wins in this reality.
You should run for president.
-
Who changed them...also curious why were they changed if you know.
The Tri-County Health Department in Colorado. The two doctors don't know why.
-
Oooo. You're smart AND you know two doctors??? Wow!!!!
WTF? One lives next door and my wife works in a hospital.
-
If I was carrying it, believe me, I'd know, I'd be sick...very sick if not dead. My point is, masks or no masks(and there are many studies that say masks aren't as effective as people believe), all the hand washing in the world, and people can STILL get it. You, I or anyone could get it from simply going to the grocery store, or work or wherever.
Even high risk patients can be asymptomatic and contagious for days before feeling any effects. Just because you think you'd know doesn't make that true or even likely.
-
Unless they are the "evil", "rich" bastards that work for the NCAA right??
No, I’d wear a mask around them, too. It’s just common decency.
-
Okay, you go with that. I didn't vote for Trump but I can see through political bias.
Also, I personally know 2 doctors that had causes of death changed to Covid when it was not a factor. Maybe that's the only two but I doubt it.
So if they know they were notified. Who notified them?
-
WTF? One lives next door and my wife works in a hospital.
REALLY!!! You live next door to a doctor!!!! WOW!!!!
-
No, I’d wear a mask around them, too. It’s just common decency.
Even as high risk as I am, I don't begrudge anyone that doesn't choose to wear a mask. That's their right and I respect that. I don't think it means that they aren't a decent person and don't care about others at all. They are just choosing to do something that they have the right to do, because...well...America.
-
Even as high risk as I am, I don't begrudge anyone that doesn't choose to wear a mask. That's their right and I respect that. I don't think it means that they aren't a decent person and don't care about others at all. They are just choosing to do something that they have the right to do, because...well...America.
How do you feel about anti-vaxers. Pro them too?
-
REALLY!!! You live next door to a doctor!!!! WOW!!!!
Okay, you win.
-
This has killed more Americans (72,000) than died from suicide (47,000) and drug overdoes (67,000) in all of 2018.
I am really interested in seeing the total number of U.S. deaths in 2020 compared to the total number of U.S. deaths in 2019.
-
I am really interested in seeing the total number of U.S. deaths in 2020 compared to the total number of U.S. deaths in 2019.
Here is one analysis.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html)
State info
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/05/us/coronavirus-death-toll-us.html (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/05/us/coronavirus-death-toll-us.html)
Financial times.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/6bd88b7d-3386-4543-b2e9-0d5c6fac846c (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/6bd88b7d-3386-4543-b2e9-0d5c6fac846c)
-
More than Viet Nam.
-
Even as high risk as I am, I don't begrudge anyone that doesn't choose to wear a mask. That's their right and I respect that. I don't think it means that they aren't a decent person and don't care about others at all. They are just choosing to do something that they have the right to do, because...well...America.
I do not always wear a mask, but I generally do if I am going in a store. I think, if you follow Jesus's teaching, which is basically about putting other people first, you need to wear a mask.
-
I love that the shut down is being considered “asinine.” Pretty much every major country in the world has shut down at some point. We want to put every ounce of blame on China for duping Donald Trump so hey, can’t be Donald’s fault, for anything! Yet China shut down major, major cities. But the US shouldn’t have to do that! Liberate us!
What’s asinine is how uncoordinated the shut downs have been because of the complete lack of leadership at the top.
This is really an ignorant take on everything. Do u understand there are states that bery very few covid cases and by the natural of their rural makeup are almost assuredly never going to have a covid issue? Additionally, states due to the nature of the constitution have the right to open or close however and when ever they choose. Some people just want to blame Trump for everything and will use anything to attack him, even when he has no say in when states open or close. Ur political beliefs cloud ur ability to think rationally. Deep breaths and understand how our Union works.
-
Because having students on campus requires people feeling reasonably safe from COVID-19 and the reason they don't is because of inadequate action from 45. The three things are inextricably linked.
If we had enough testing, it would help to contain the virus and insure people felt safe from COVID-19 which would allow students to return more safely to campus. It's not thread dissolution but rather a natural evolution.
Ur logic is not logical. U can attack Trump all u want if it makes u feel better but ur logic is wrong.
-
Okay, you go with that. I didn't vote for Trump but I can see through political bias.
Also, I personally know 2 doctors that had causes of death changed to Covid when it was not a factor. Maybe that's the only two but I doubt it.
I have a client whos father died and the hospital and death certificate called the death covid 19. She was very upset about this as all the doctors n testing said he did not have covid. Now i preface this with i have no knowledge or conspiracy theories about any of this. I asked her why they would do this and she stated the hospitals are getting reimbursed more if its a covid death. I have no idea if that is true or of any other conspiracy is in effect. Just that it came up in a phone conversation and now in a recruiting thread 🤪
-
This is really an ignorant take on everything. Do u understand there are states that bery very few covid cases and by the natural of their rural makeup are almost assuredly never going to have a covid issue? Additionally, states due to the nature of the constitution have the right to open or close however and when ever they choose. Some people just want to blame Trump for everything and will use anything to attack him, even when he has no say in when states open or close. Ur political beliefs cloud ur ability to think rationally. Deep breaths and understand how our Union works.
Lol. Donald Trump cannot shut down a state himself you are right. Nobody said he could. What he could do is coordinate a unified approach. He’s done the opposite. But go on and believe it’s either China’s fault or the governors’ fault. Trump’s hands have been tied all along. It never is lol.
How are rural states and areas throughout the country doing with their covid responses? News flash, covid is hitting everywhere.
-
I have a client whos father died and the hospital and death certificate called the death covid 19. She was very upset about this as all the doctors n testing said he did not have covid. Now i preface this with i have no knowledge or conspiracy theories about any of this. I asked her why they would do this and she stated the hospitals are getting reimbursed more if its a covid death. I have no idea if that is true or of any other conspiracy is in effect. Just that it came up in a phone conversation and now in a recruiting thread 🤪
The irony of you telling everyone who doesn’t think Trump is absolutely killing this covid response that they are ignorant while then going and spreading this while admitting you have no idea if it is true is very rich.
-
Alright, Sand knit just beautifully and gracefully owned every single lib in this thread just now. But as we know, Libs are VERY poor losers(see 2016 election), but this thread is officially over after that performance by Sand knit. Well done! *standing ovation*
-
I have a client whos father died and the hospital and death certificate called the death covid 19. She was very upset about this as all the doctors n testing said he did not have covid. Now i preface this with i have no knowledge or conspiracy theories about any of this. I asked her why they would do this and she stated the hospitals are getting reimbursed more if its a covid death. I have no idea if that is true or of any other conspiracy is in effect. Just that it came up in a phone conversation and now in a recruiting thread 🤪
Yeah that's not true.
Honestly the people who thing this isn't as bad as it is are just insane.
-
This is really an ignorant take on everything. Do u understand there are states that bery very few covid cases and by the natural of their rural makeup are almost assuredly never going to have a covid issue? Additionally, states due to the nature of the constitution have the right to open or close however and when ever they choose. Some people just want to blame Trump for everything and will use anything to attack him, even when he has no say in when states open or close. Ur political beliefs cloud ur ability to think rationally. Deep breaths and understand how our Union works.
Sigh....
That's not the point. Everyone knows he can't tell states to open or close. But he could have not ignored the problem earlier, could have marshalled support to have PPE and respirators available, could have sent clear messaging instead of chasing whackadoodle cures while issueing guidelines for how states should reopen while simultaneously telling citizens to ignore those guidelines.
He's been terrible. Complete absense of leadership from the get go.
-
Sigh....
That's not the point. Everyone knows he can't tell states to open or close. But he could have not ignored the problem earlier, could have marshalled support to have PPE and respirators available, could have sent clear messaging instead of chasing whackadoodle cures while issueing guidelines for how states should reopen while simultaneously telling citizens to ignore those guidelines.
He's been terrible. Complete absense of leadership from the get go.
The people that have been conned are always the last to realize and accept it
-
Alright, Sand knit just beautifully and gracefully owned every single lib in this thread just now. But as we know, Libs are VERY poor losers(see 2016 election), but this thread is officially over after that performance by Sand knit. Well done! *standing ovation*
Lol.
-
Lol.
Leads a sad life
-
Sigh....
That's not the point. Everyone knows he can't tell states to open or close. But he could have not ignored the problem earlier, could have marshalled support to have PPE and respirators available, could have sent clear messaging instead of chasing whackadoodle cures while issueing guidelines for how states should reopen while simultaneously telling citizens to ignore those guidelines.
He's been terrible. Complete absense of leadership from the get go.
If you or anyone else really and truly thinks the "other" candidate in 2016 would be handling this any better is absolutely off the rails crazy. It would be way worse...everyone should be thankful 45 is in office now, when you consider the only other option was Hillary...good god, Id hate to see this country now.
-
What about that whatabout-ism?
-
If you or anyone else really and truly thinks the "other" candidate in 2016 would be handling this any better is absolutely off the rails crazy. It would be way worse...everyone should be thankful 45 is in office now, when you consider the only other option was Hillary...good god, Id hate to see this country now.
I am judging the performance of the person who holds the office against my expectations. If you want to keep making excuses or cooking up reasons not to hold him to a higher standard, that's your choice. But my standards for Presidential leadership are apparently higher than yours.
-
If you or anyone else really and truly thinks the "other" candidate in 2016 would be handling this any better is absolutely off the rails crazy. It would be way worse...everyone should be thankful 45 is in office now, when you consider the only other option was Hillary...good god, Id hate to see this country now.
The leadership from Washington D.C. is an utter embarrassment embraced only by fools
-
The leadership from Washington D.C. is an utter embarrassment embraced only by fools
I love winning! We have been winning since 2016, and we have four more years of winning ahead. Don't hate bro, it's not healthy. ;D
-
I love winning! We have been winning since 2016, and we have four more years of winning ahead. Don't hate bro, it's not healthy. ;D
80,000 Americans dead, the economy tanking. I can’t handle all the winning
-
I am judging the performance of the person who holds the office against my expectations. If you want to keep making excuses or cooking up reasons not to hold him to a higher standard, that's your choice. But my standards for Presidential leadership are apparently higher than yours.
Now this I know is a flat out lie...your expectations can't be that high because after the abomination we had before 45, and you thinking he was great, absolutely says your expectations for leadership are extremely low. Thanks for playing Fluffy. ;D
-
I like turtles.
-
I like turtles.
I dislike Terrapins
-
80,000 Americans dead, the economy tanking. I can’t handle all the winning
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D You are such an angry person Rico.
-
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D You are such an angry person Rico.
Beats callous indifference, I suppose
-
Ur logic is not logical. U can attack Trump all u want if it makes u feel better but ur logic is wrong.
Guru asked a question. I answered it. If you can't connect three dots to form a triangle, I don't know what to tell you.
-
guru is really feeling himself tonight.
-
Weird trumpists on here. This is not political so its fine thanks
-
Even as high risk as I am, I don't begrudge anyone that doesn't choose to wear a mask. That's their right and I respect that. I don't think it means that they aren't a decent person and don't care about others at all. They are just choosing to do something that they have the right to do, because...well...America.
If someone gets drunk at a bar and decides to drive home, do you begrudge them or do you respect that? Is that a decent person? Do they care about others at all? Do they have a choice to do something that they have a right to do because...well...America?
-
And there, in purest terms, is the crux of the debate, hell, society at large.
What I want vs what is best for the most people.
Facts vs what I believe.
I can see you paid attention when we studied Utilitarianism in PHIL 104.
-
If someone gets drunk at a bar and decides to drive home, do you begrudge them or do you respect that? Is that a decent person? Do they care about others at all? Do they have a choice to do something that they have a right to do because...well...America?
1000% different...drunk driving is illegal...not wearing a mask is not illegal. Apples and oranges.
-
Everyone, no matter what side of the aisle knows that Trump is a complete ass. The people that like him are benefiting in some way from his policies and that’s ok.
Most of my friends are supporters of his and they get that he is a clown. They understand that he is an embarrassment on a national and multinational stage every time he opens his mouth.
They accept it because he pushes their agenda.
His absence of leadership during this time is not unexpected to them or anyone. The inability to accept any responsibility whatsoever on anything or to be thoughtful about any opposing opinion is simply par for the course. We knew it going in to his term.
The reason for this is the alternative of having an Obama disciple in office. That simply cannot be tolerated by his supporters. If there was a republican who had the same agenda but was not an attention grabbing whore who can’t see past his own nose they would vote for him/her in a heartbeat. But their party is not giving them the option at this time. The democrats are not giving them an obvious better option either. So they defend him to death even though they know it does not feel right.
Trump was dealt a no win situation but no one can say he has been a good leader. The country moves on despite him during this awful time not because of him.
Let’s just hope that he can take credit in the near future for some type of economic and pandemic recovery for the sake of the USA. If it happens to feed his giant ego so be it.
-
Well, this was interesting. Move the petty quarreling to the covid board.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?board=15.0
As to the topic, I don't think it's very surprising that sports will be cancelled if campuses aren't open. And that is very much TBD...
-
Thanks Rocky.
So guru, since drunk driving is illegal it’s 1000% different then not wearing a mask. Do you also believe that the police should post up outside hospitals to pull over cars with expectant mothers just because it’s illegal?
-
1000% different...drunk driving is illegal...not wearing a mask is not illegal. Apples and oranges.
So if drunk driving weren't illegal, you would do it?
-
ND sucks.
-
The irony of you telling everyone who doesn’t think Trump is absolutely killing this covid response that they are ignorant while then going and spreading this while admitting you have no idea if it is true is very rich.
Said i had no idea about any conspiracy about upping the number of covid cases. Let ur bias cloud u tho.
-
Yeah that's not true.
Honestly the people who thing this isn't as bad as it is are just insane.
Haha fluffy just said a story that i told wasnt true. Lol i made no claims or casted no judgements just repeated a phone conversation and am told its not true. Fluffy u are a fool.
-
Haha fluffy just said a story that i told wasnt true. Lol i made no claims or casted no judgements just repeated a phone conversation and am told its not true. Fluffy u are a fool.
Man you are so sensitive! Your spelling and grammar gets even more f*cked up when you're challenged.
Anyway, hospitals aren't gettting reimbursed more for a Covid death. That's what isn't true. Rocky posted this elsewhere.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/
-
Everyone, no matter what side of the aisle knows that Trump is a complete ass. The people that like him are benefiting in some way from his policies and that’s ok.
Most of my friends are supporters of his and they get that he is a clown. They understand that he is an embarrassment on a national and multinational stage every time he opens his mouth.
They accept it because he pushes their agenda.
His absence of leadership during this time is not unexpected to them or anyone. The inability to accept any responsibility whatsoever on anything or to be thoughtful about any opposing opinion is simply par for the course. We knew it going in to his term.
The reason for this is the alternative of having an Obama disciple in office. That simply cannot be tolerated by his supporters. If there was a republican who had the same agenda but was not an attention grabbing whore who can’t see past his own nose they would vote for him/her in a heartbeat. But their party is not giving them the option at this time. The democrats are not giving them an obvious better option either. So they defend him to death even though they know it does not feel right.
Trump was dealt a no win situation but no one can say he has been a good leader. The country moves on despite him during this awful time not because of him.
Let’s just hope that he can take credit in the near future for some type of economic and pandemic recovery for the sake of the USA. If it happens to feed his giant ego so be it.
Horribly contadictory post. At one point u say most of Trump spporters admit he is a clown and embarrassing. Only a few sentances later u state, So they defend him to death even though they know it does not feel right.
Horrible fail. Most repubs will admit Trump is very non politically correct and says off the cuff dumb things. Much of it is by his narcissistic nature. Much of it is not being in a political back ground where he says no comment, researches the polls and returns to say what will most likely keep him in office.
Repubs will state also that they like Trumps policies, and that while he can be unconventional n act foolish at times his policies are good n he has capable leuitenants. He is not agraid to tackle tough subjects that most career politicians run from.
Lastly most Trump voters in the last election were voting more against the most despicable troll in the history of American politics than they were voting for Trump.
-
Man you are so sensitive! Your spelling and grammar gets even more f*cked up when you're challenged.
Anyway, hospitals aren't gettting reimbursed more for a Covid death. That's what isn't true. Rocky posted this elsewhere.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/
I never said they were, i was repeating a story. Can u wrap ur brain around that?
-
Man you are so sensitive! Your spelling and grammar gets even more f*cked up when you're challenged.
Anyway, hospitals aren't gettting reimbursed more for a Covid death. That's what isn't true. Rocky posted this elsewhere.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/
They might not be getting more $$ out of it, but they ARE reporting some deaths as Covid-19 that are really a heart attack etc..not for monetary gain, but for POLITICAL reasons. If you honestly and truly believe that hasn't/isn't happening at all, then you're purposely showing your agenda. You're smarter than that Fluffy...I think anyway.
It's like people claiming "school X hasn't been implicated in any wrong doing", but everyone knows it's going on. Just because it's not right out in public view doesn't mean it's not occurring. It is.
-
I never said they were, i was repeating a story. Can u wrap ur brain around that?
Can you wrap your brain around the fact that wasn't claiming you weren't told a story? That the "fact" of the person telling you the story wasn't accurate?
-
They might not be getting more $$ out of it, but they ARE reporting some deaths as Covid-19 that are really a heart attack etc..not for monetary gain, but for POLITICAL reasons. If you honestly and truly believe that hasn't/isn't happening at all, then you're purposely showing your agenda. You're smarter than that Fluffy...I think anyway.
Unless there is evidence of that occurring, and not simply second-hand from your "source," then I don't believe it is accurate.
I don't deal in rumor. I deal in facts. Now if you want to provide facts to support your assertion that deaths are being over reported for political purposes, please do so.
-
They might not be getting more $$ out of it, but they ARE reporting some deaths as Covid-19 that are really a heart attack etc..not for monetary gain, but for POLITICAL reasons. If you honestly and truly believe that hasn't/isn't happening at all, then you're purposely showing your agenda. You're smarter than that Fluffy...I think anyway.
It's like people claiming "school X hasn't been implicated in any wrong doing", but everyone knows it's going on. Just because it's not right out in public view doesn't mean it's not occurring. It is.
It's not always easy to tell why someone died. I doubt there are more than a few idiots purposefully indicating the wrong cause of death, for who knows what reason. But the implication of these conspiracy theories is, "it's not a big deal, it's not that dangerous, the deadliness is exaggerated." But in the end, they're going to count up all-cause mortality, look at how it has changed compared to equivalent periods in previous years and see the real death toll. The numbers we have so far indicate that estimates of covid deaths are an underestimate of increased mortality. It's crazy to me that our warped political system has managed to polarize even this simple counting exercise. Don't you just want to know this actual number, regardless of whatever implications it has on your beliefs about political leaders?
-
Unless there is evidence of that occurring, and not simply second-hand from your "source," then I don't believe it is accurate.
I don't deal in rumor. I deal in facts. Now if you want to provide facts to support your assertion that deaths are being over reported for political purposes, please do so.
“If you say something loud enough, it becomes fact” - Thomas Jefferson
-
Horribly contadictory post. At one point u say most of Trump spporters admit he is a clown and embarrassing. Only a few sentances later u state, So they defend him to death even though they know it does not feel right.
Horrible fail. Most repubs will admit Trump is very non politically correct and says off the cuff dumb things. Much of it is by his narcissistic nature. Much of it is not being in a political back ground where he says no comment, researches the polls and returns to say what will most likely keep him in office.
Repubs will state also that they like Trumps policies, and that while he can be unconventional n act foolish at times his policies are good n he has capable leuitenants. He is not agraid to tackle tough subjects that most career politicians run from.
Lastly most Trump voters in the last election were voting more against the most despicable troll in the history of American politics than they were voting for Trump.
Once again, spot on Sand knit!
-
This country has jumped the shark. We are f*cked.
-
Unless there is evidence of that occurring, and not simply second-hand from your "source," then I don't believe it is accurate.
I don't deal in rumor. I deal in facts. Now if you want to provide facts to support your assertion that deaths are being over reported for political purposes, please do so.
LOL spoken like a true liberal. What do they know about "facts"?? It was fine with you(and your fellow libs) when Trump was being impeached over absolutely NOTHING factual(and more stories are coming out about it). Then it's okay to not have facts, right Fluffy?? The hypocrisy is so rich. Yet you 100% believed the Russian hoax as being factual. Agenda much Fluffy??