Vaccine/Antibody updates

[The Sultan]

I don't know that is highly irresponsible.  Reviewing data will comfort some people.  As an example someone was texting me this morning saying their son was worried about getting JNJ at his appointment today. They hadnt yet heard about the pause. 

There isn't great answers but I'm fine if the FDA does it's job and reviews the facts for a few days. 

Even if the J&J vaccine causes blood clots in 1 / 1,000,000, they shouldn't pause giving the vaccine. 

[pacearrow02]

I think this will be viewed as a highly irresponsible act by the FDA.  Those odds with these side effects are so miniscule, it isn't worth pausing during a pandemic that is now largely being fueled by a more highly transmissable form of the virus.

And you have also given anti-vaxxers another reason to not get the shot.

I agree with Nate Silver here.

Nate Silver
@NateSilver538
·
10m
Replying to
@NateSilver538
Why did the FDA recommend the pause anyway? Because of a combination of institutional culture, cognitive biases, and bureaucratic imperatives incentives, they greatly overweight the importance of rare adverse effects relative to people dying from COVID.

💯!!!!!! 

6 out of over 4 million and they're putting a pause on it?!?!?!?

[injuryBug]

💯!!!!!! 

6 out of over 4 million and they're putting a pause on it?!?!?!?

according to the fda we should stay in our basement during the next thunder storm so lightening does not strike us

[GooooMarquette]

I don't know that is highly irresponsible.  Reviewing data will comfort some people.  As an example someone was texting me this morning saying their son was worried about getting JNJ at his appointment today. They hadnt yet heard about the pause. 

There isn't great answers but I'm fine if the FDA does it's job and reviews the facts for a few days.

I haven't seen enough of the real data to know if this is a good decision or not. I fear it isn't.

But the underlined might be the most significant argument in favor of halting.

I heard a long NPR discussion about why many people are still vaccine-hesitant. One of the primary reasons was a fear that FDA rushed through the process. Maybe this gives them an opportunity to say "see - we are taking even statistically tiny side effects very seriously." Hopefully they restart soon...and very loudly advertise the fact that they have taken every side effect very seriously.

[MUBurrow]

There is absolutely no way that in the end this pause is a net-positive for public confidence in the J&J vaccine.

[The Sultan]

There is absolutely no way that in the end this pause is a net-positive for public confidence in the J&J vaccine.

Exactly.  There is yet another hill that the those pushing the vaccine are going to have to climb.

[Warriors4ever]

Most people posting in the Chicago Vaccine  Hunters group are unhappy with the pause and would get it today if they could.
Dr Murphy did broach the possibility this morning that perhaps in the future it might be recommended for certain population groups and not others.

[MUBurrow]

Most people posting in the Chicago Vaccine  Hunters group are unhappy with the pause and would get it today if they could.

Seems fair. I would definitely buy a ticket for a 1 in a 1,000,000 chance at a blood clot if it gets me in a dive bar sooner.

[pacearrow02]

https://mobile.twitter.com/mattsgorman/status/1381938136071176194

This is starting to remain me of Obama's quote about Biden and not underestimating his ability to "F this up".

Easy to stand on stage and say a rehearsed line of "I won't shut down the economy but I will shut down the virus" during a debate but not quite as easy when you're sitting in the chair to back that up unfortunately.

[MUfan12]

There isn't great answers but I'm fine if the FDA does it's job and reviews the facts for a few days.

With 1 in a million cases, they couldn't review this data behind the scenes while continuing to administer vaccines?

This is a massive fook up.

[rocky_warrior]

With 1 in a million cases, they couldn't review this data behind the scenes while continuing to administer vaccines?

This is a massive fook up.

Having followed biotech and the FDA for ages, this isn't outside their norm - especially for an emergency use situation.  If significant side effects (i.e. blood clots, or a significant risk of death)  pop up, they'll stop and look at the data to see if they are within statistical norm of blood clots, or the vaccine is increasing risk. 

They also know there are 2 vaccines available in the US that do not have this issue - so better to proceed with those until facts are known.  Especially when most un-vaccinated people can reduce their own risk by limiting contact and wearing masks.

The rage is unfounded.

[Lighthouse 84]

As of now, absolutely ANYONE 16 or older can literally walk into the Wisconsin Center and get their shot.  No identification; no insurance card. And no questions about anyone's immigration status.

9a - 6p Monday through Saturday
8a - 4p Sundays

If you flatlanders can't find somewhere close to home.......
take the drive, enjoy campus and grab a bowl of Chili.

By July 4th everyone who wants the vaccine will have had ample opportunity.  If you haven't availed yourself by then, it's not gonna be my problem.  Expect full fledged beer and brat breath from me.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/2021/04/11/where-get-covid-19-vaccine-appointments-open-wisconsin-center/7183048002/

I just made an appointment for my first round in Illinois.  Valid State DL or ID and proof insurance required, unless one doesn't have insurance, then only the DL or State ID required, but still can't get vaccinated without it.

I guess those in Illinois who aren't able to get a DL or ID, either because it's too costly to get one or the DMV is too far away, will just have to take the drive, enjoy campus and grab a bowl of chili, hey?

(PS......Glow-that's not a knock on your comment)

[GooooMarquette]

Having followed biotech and the FDA for ages, this isn't outside their norm - especially for an emergency use situation.  If significant side effects (i.e. blood clots, or a significant risk of death)  pop up, they'll stop and look at the data to see if they are within statistical norm of blood clots, or the vaccine is increasing risk. 

They also know there are 2 vaccines available in the US that do not have this issue - so better to proceed with those until facts are known.  Especially when most un-vaccinated people can reduce their own risk by limiting contact and wearing masks.

The rage is unfounded.

Agreed. It is far from ideal and I am still torn on the decision, but there was less data to begin with because this was an EUA, so FDA will always more careful in those cases. And there are two other highly effective alternatives available. And J&J shipments were going to plummet for the next week anyway due to manufacturing issues.

All told, pausing this specific vaccine at this specific time is probably less damaging to the US vaccination efforts than people think. Certainly not a 'non-issue,' but also not the catastrophic development some are making it out to be.

[rocky_warrior]

All told, pausing this specific vaccine at this specific time is probably less damaging to the US vaccination efforts than people think. Certainly not a 'non-issue,' but also not the catastrophic development some are making it out to be.

They've also recommended a pause, not mandated.  Providers can still use shots today.  And they're meeting tomorrow morning afternoon to review data - will probably have updated guidance by noon COB tomorrow.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Give the J&J to men, the other 2 to women.

[Warriors4ever]

Lighthouse, there are all sorts of ids that people are able to use, it doesn't have to be a DL or a state ID.  Almost any type of a photo id will work. 

[rocket surgeon]

💯!!!!!! 

6 out of over 4 million and they're putting a pause on it?!?!?!?

  what are the side effects of birth control pills, statins, metformin, antidepressants, etc?

  J & J must not have donated enough to BLM

and now, even with the vaccinations the cdc is saying we need to shut down again like last spring? 

next up, let's see if we can get them to hop on one leg, hold their tongues and say i was born on a pirate ship

[rocky_warrior]

It's funny how much Faux News get some of you all riled up.

[🏀]

Just drive to Kenosha, get it through the county. No ID or insurance necessary.

[Skatastrophy]

It's funny how much Faux News get some of you all riled up.

Yeah, after reading posts here I oftentimes check the tabloids to connect the dots between talking points.

[MUfan12]

Yeah, after reading posts here I oftentimes check the tabloids to connect the dots between talking points.

Being concerned that this action could increase vaccine hesitancy is a Fox News talking point?

I haven't watched that network in years. My issue with the decision comes strictly from a place of getting as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible, to avoid more needless suffering and death.

Might as well call me Tucker Carlson.

[GooooMarquette]

Mea culpa.

Not a law or anything related...at least not yet.

I guess you miss the details when you're half-listening to audio news.

Anyway, here's the details on a proposed IP waiver. And more interesting info on a US government-held patent that could also change things significantly.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00863-w

Of course, big pharma already owns most of the Democratic party, so we know how this is gonna end. Can't risk pharma profits!! (Despite so much of pharma profits being made on the backs of publicly-funded research. Nationalize big pharma!)

For anyone who is interested, there is a discussion of this proposal right now (noon- 1:00) on MPR news.

https://www.mprnews.org/

[Hards Alumni]

Being concerned that this action could increase vaccine hesitancy is a Fox News talking point?

I haven't watched that network in years. My issue with the decision comes strictly from a place of getting as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible, to avoid more needless suffering and death.

Might as well call me Tucker Carlson.

Hey now, you're not a white nationalist, are ya?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

It's funny how much Faux News get some of you all riled up.

Outrage and grievance is their business model.

[rocket surgeon]

weird how fox news really freaks most of you guys out, but none of ALL the others.