Vaccine/Antibody updates

[GooooMarquette]

No. But as per my most recent post, we can explain to others how to produce the vaccine for themselves.

That is an issue for the individual companies that own the intellectual property rights to the vaccines, not the government. So when you say 'we' can explain it, you really mean 'they' (the companies).

And yeah - I think it would be awesome if they did. Just wanted to make it clear who has the ability to share this info.

[jesmu84]

That is an issue for the individual companies that own the intellectual property rights to the vaccines, not the government. So when you say 'we' can explain it, you really mean 'they' (the companies).

And yeah - I think it would be awesome if they did. Just wanted to make it clear who has the ability to share this info.

Not entirely. The government has the ability to step in in this case and demand the IP. Not sure if that rule is tied to OWS or emergency status

[Jockey]

That is an issue for the individual companies that own the intellectual property rights to the vaccines, not the government. So when you say 'we' can explain it, you really mean 'they' (the companies).

And yeah - I think it would be awesome if they did. Just wanted to make it clear who has the ability to share this info.

Can you speak to the same subject when considering the huge sums of money that the US gov't gave for development for the Moderna and Astra Zeneca? Does that give a voice to the US government in dispensing the virus around the world?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Not entirely. The government has the ability to step in in this case and demand the IP. Not sure if that rule is tied to OWS or emergency status

Are you saying they have that ability to ensure Americans get a vaccine or that ability in a blanket sense. 

It's hard to imagine that standing up in court for a global company like Pfizer that didn't take funds but used the trial infrastructure.

[GooooMarquette]

Not entirely. The government has the ability to step in in this case and demand the IP. Not sure if that rule is tied to OWS or emergency status

I would be interested in seeing the law that allows the US to take away a company's intellectual property rights. Not saying it isn't true, but I have never heard of anything like that.

[GooooMarquette]

Can you speak to the same subject when considering the huge sums of money that the US gov't gave for development for the Moderna and Astra Zeneca? Does that give a voice to the US government in dispensing the virus around the world?

I don't know why US government funding of the vaccine development would give them the right to take away the IP rights. The government funds research all the time through NIH, DOD and other agencies and offices, and medical centers and companies routinely get to retain those rights.

Maybe there is something unique about the law in this case, but I am not aware of it. Again, if anyone knows otherwise, I would love to see the reference.

[jesmu84]

I would be interested in seeing the law that allows the US to take away a company's intellectual property rights. Not saying it isn't true, but I have never heard of anything like that.

I'll have to see if I can find the reference. I spoke pretty confidently earlier. But it was merely something I had heard/read

[Skatastrophy]

I'll have to see if I can find the reference. I spoke pretty confidently earlier. But it was merely something I had heard/read

With the defense production act the govt can force a company to produce X widgets in Y time, and if the company can't get it done the govt can force the company to partner with other companies to hit the timeline. IANAL

[jsglow]

As of now, absolutely ANYONE 16 or older can literally walk into the Wisconsin Center and get their shot.  No identification; no insurance card.  And no questions about anyone's immigration status.

9a - 6p Monday through Saturday
8a - 4p Sundays

If you flatlanders can't find somewhere close to home.......
take the drive, enjoy campus and grab a bowl of Chili.

By July 4th everyone who wants the vaccine will have had ample opportunity.  If you haven't availed yourself by then, it's not gonna be my problem.  Expect full fledged beer and brat breath from me.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/2021/04/11/where-get-covid-19-vaccine-appointments-open-wisconsin-center/7183048002/ 

[Jockey]

I don't know why US government funding of the vaccine development would give them the right to take away the IP rights. The government funds research all the time through NIH, DOD and other agencies and offices, and medical centers and companies routinely get to retain those rights.

Maybe there is something unique about the law in this case, but I am not aware of it. Again, if anyone knows otherwise, I would love to see the reference.

Thanks, Goo. I thought that was the case, but wasn't sure.

[rocket surgeon]

  either they are being dumb like foxes or in a very rare moment of candidness

  https://www.huffpost.com/entry/official-chinese-vaccines-effectiveness-low_n_6072e2bbc5b6ed595280630c

  hoping like hell ours is better than theirs.  the mRNA vaccines potential long term efficacy and/or side effects are evidently dubious, but thinking out of the tens of millions of doses given out so far seem to be more effective than not.  sure there are going to be "duds" and side effects, but it's all we have so far.  not sure what their vaccine's mode of immunity is based on.  on the plus side, if they are being honest, it tells us, whatever mode they are using is not very effective and we can scratch that one off our list 

  or they are blowing smoke

[rocky_warrior]

By July 4th everyone who wants the vaccine will have had ample opportunity.  If you haven't availed yourself by then, it's not gonna be my problem.  Expect full fledged beer and brat breath from me.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/2021/04/11/where-get-covid-19-vaccine-appointments-open-wisconsin-center/7183048002/

This I *generally* agree with.  Hopefully no major problems with the 16 & under crowd before then (or after).

It's a race to the finish line, stay safe before then.

[GooooMarquette]

By July 4th everyone who wants the vaccine will have had ample opportunity.  If you haven't availed yourself by then, it's not gonna be my problem. 

Mostly agree...unless continued circulation leads to a variant that is resistant to the immunity generated by current vaccines.

Then it will be everybody's problem all over again.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

We just need to build it into our thinking that there will be a strain that evades the vaccine, its just a matter of time.  There is too much spread globally at this point for that not to happen.  This will be globally endemic...

So sign me up for my annual booster.  Hopefully we restore/invest in global monitoring so that the mRNA companies can plug in the new/scary sequence/sequences and make enough before the fall hits.

[GooooMarquette]

We just need to build it into our thinking that there will be a strain that evades the vaccine, its just a matter of time.  There is too much spread globally at this point for that not to happen.  This will be globally endemic...

Likely true...but the longer we can put it off, and the fewer vaccine-resistant variants that develop, the better chance we can get back to some semblance of normal.

If a highly vaccine-resistant variant evolves next month in Jackson, Mississippi because unvaccinated people keep gathering without masks, it would be very different for us than if it doesn't occur until six months from now in some remote region of a developing country where they're still awaiting the first vaccines.

[jsglow]

We just need to build it into our thinking that there will be a strain that evades the vaccine, its just a matter of time.  There is too much spread globally at this point for that not to happen.  This will be globally endemic...

So sign me up for my annual booster.  Hopefully we restore/invest in global monitoring so that the mRNA companies can plug in the new/scary sequence/sequences and make enough before the fall hits.

That's exactly how I think it will end up working.

[MU82]

Likely true...but the longer we can put it off, and the fewer vaccine-resistant variants that develop, the better chance we can get back to some semblance of normal.

If a highly vaccine-resistant variant evolves next month in Jackson, Mississippi because unvaccinated people keep gathering without masks, it would be very different for us than if it doesn't occur until six months from now in some remote region of a developing country where they're still awaiting the first vaccines.

At this point, I'm not sure it would be very different -- at least not from a "get back to some semblance of normal" standpoint.

Unless something truly different and horrific is unleashed, I don't think we're gonna see the government going back to lockdowns. Americans are fatigued. Even mask-wearing is a flashpoint.

In Michigan, where it seems to be getting quite bad again, a governor who was very aggressive in trying to combat the virus is now reluctant to issue new restrictions.

So I hope continued development of vaccines continues, that they can handle new strains, etc.

[GooooMarquette]

At this point, I'm not sure it would be very different -- at least not from a "get back to some semblance of normal" standpoint.

Unless something truly different and horrific is unleashed, I don't think we're gonna see the government going back to lockdowns. Americans are fatigued. Even mask-wearing is a flashpoint.

In Michigan, where it seems to be getting quite bad again, a governor who was very aggressive in trying to combat the virus is now reluctant to issue new restrictions.

So I hope continued development of vaccines continues, that they can handle new strains, etc.

You are probably right. And it's a shame that medical and research infrastructure has to fight both a virus and stubborn people who refuse to do the right things.

We'd just better be prepared to fund the he!! out of biomedical research for the next few decades, to try to stay on top of things like this, and people who make it more difficult.

[jesmu84]

I'll have to see if I can find the reference. I spoke pretty confidently earlier. But it was merely something I had heard/read

Mea culpa.

Not a law or anything related...at least not yet.

I guess you miss the details when you're half-listening to audio news.

Anyway, here's the details on a proposed IP waiver. And more interesting info on a US government-held patent that could also change things significantly.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00863-w

Of course, big pharma already owns most of the Democratic party, so we know how this is gonna end. Can't risk pharma profits!! (Despite so much of pharma profits being made on the backs of publicly-funded research. Nationalize big pharma!)

[forgetful]

Mea culpa.

Not a law or anything related...at least not yet.

I guess you miss the details when you're half-listening to audio news.

Anyway, here's the details on a proposed IP waiver. And more interesting info on a US government-held patent that could also change things significantly.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00863-w

Of course, big pharma already owns most of the Democratic party, so we know how this is gonna end. Can't risk pharma profits!! (Despite so much of pharma profits being made on the backs of publicly-funded research. Nationalize big pharma!)

I'm really not sure it makes sense to waive IP rights right now. It would likely create a new free for all that doesn't really help anyone.

Right now, production is limited by two primary factors: 1) Raw reagents for the lipids necessary to create the lipid nano-particles, and 2) Sophisticated custom designed/built injectors to ensure that the lipids and mRNA are delivered in the right proportions and mixed in the proper manner to generate the lipid nano-particles.

As more of these components are ready, they are immediately put into the existing production pipelines, where there is still excess capacity provided the machinery and reagents are available.

What would make the most sense is to have these other countries focus on expanding production of lipids, and machinery to get more production lines online in exchange for purchase/delivery agreements of doses.

Once excess capacity is filled for existing pipelines, then one can think about lifting IP requirements.

As an aside, there is always a way around these patents. They almost always do not do entire world patents, as it is not financially lucrative. There are a couple countries that are almost always left off the list, as it just doesn't make financial sense. That is almost assuredly true for the 2016 US patents discussed in that article, as Universities in particular are reluctant to invest too heavily in patent rights in many countries.

[GooooMarquette]

I'm really not sure it makes sense to waive IP rights right now. It would likely create a new free for all that doesn't really help anyone.

Right now, production is limited by two primary factors: 1) Raw reagents for the lipids necessary to create the lipid nano-particles, and 2) Sophisticated custom designed/built injectors to ensure that the lipids and mRNA are delivered in the right proportions and mixed in the proper manner to generate the lipid nano-particles.

As more of these components are ready, they are immediately put into the existing production pipelines, where there is still excess capacity provided the machinery and reagents are available.

Thanks. I wondered whether that might have been the case, but wasn't sure.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Well this sucks...

Johnson & Johnson Covid Vaccine: US Calls for Pause After Clotting Cases
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/u-s-calls-for-pause-on-johnson-johnson-vaccine-after-clotting-cases/ar-BB1fB8wg?ocid=msedgntp

"Federal health agencies on Tuesday called for an immediate pause in use of Johnson & Johnson's single-dose coronavirus vaccine after six recipients in the United States developed a rare disorder involving blood clots within about two weeks of vaccination."

Incidence seems to be less than 1 in 1 million.

[The Sultan]

I think this will be viewed as a highly irresponsible act by the FDA.  Those odds with these side effects are so miniscule, it isn't worth pausing during a pandemic that is now largely being fueled by a more highly transmissable form of the virus.

And you have also given anti-vaxxers another reason to not get the shot.

I agree with Nate Silver here.

Nate Silver
@NateSilver538
·
10m
Replying to
@NateSilver538
Why did the FDA recommend the pause anyway? Because of a combination of institutional culture, cognitive biases, and bureaucratic imperatives incentives, they greatly overweight the importance of rare adverse effects relative to people dying from COVID.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I don't know that is highly irresponsible.  Reviewing data will comfort some people.  As an example someone was texting me this morning saying their son was worried about getting JNJ at his appointment today. They hadnt yet heard about the pause. 

There isn't great answers but I'm fine if the FDA does it's job and reviews the facts for a few days. 

[4everwarriors]

Fauci's tryin' his best to kill the restaurant business singlehandedly by telling vaccinated people not to eat indoors. Gonna extend that 15 minutes of fame come hell or high water, hey?

#idiot