collapse

* Resources


UDM 4

* Recent Posts

* COVID-19

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!


Author Topic: Vaccine/Antibody updates  (Read 3736 times)

ZiggysFryBoy

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4290
  • MEDITERRANEAN TACOS!
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #75 on: May 12, 2020, 11:05:48 AM »

I'd read that yesterday .. this is not rocket science.  The world will need several billion doses of the vaccine.   


If someone isn't working on getting several billion vials, rubber stoppers and syringes .. that would be absolute insanity. 


The hard part is the vaccine.  Rubber stoppers better be easy in comparison, or we're in a world of hurt.

Rubber stoppers can still fail, yo.
And I am not frightened of dying. Any time will do, I don't mind. Why should I be frightened of dying? There's no reason for it – you've got to go sometime.    — Gerry O'Driscoll

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 15842
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #76 on: May 12, 2020, 11:12:48 AM »
Is your mama a llama? 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

forgetful

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4022
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #77 on: May 12, 2020, 12:29:29 PM »
A potential problem for vaccine production, is that the large scale abilities to produce the vaccines is largely in India.

If this is really bad when the vaccines are online, we may see India refuse to ship vaccines until their 1B+ population is vaccinated.

Jockey

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 991
  • "I take no responsibility at all."
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #78 on: May 12, 2020, 01:07:21 PM »

I'd read that yesterday .. this is not rocket science.  The world will need several billion doses of the vaccine.   


If someone isn't working on getting several billion vials, rubber stoppers and syringes .. that would be absolute insanity. 


The hard part is the vaccine.  Rubber stoppers better be easy in comparison, or we're in a world of hurt.


I think this administration has shown that it is rocket science. I see no reason to expect they can get it right.

The military should be put in charge of this and Jared should be sent to his room. Just as General Honore was put in charge of the Katrina mess after Bush totally screwed the pooch. And he must be given full authority to order private business to gear up to produce whatever is necessary in the quantities that are necessary.

Our leader has made it clear that he wants no part of what the rest of the world is doing vaccine-wise. We are truly on our own here. And the one true thing we know is that our current leader(s) are not up to the task.

MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2600
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #79 on: May 20, 2020, 09:17:25 AM »
I did not get a chance to post yesterday. 
New York Times daily email had info on COVID-19 vaccine development.



Why vaccines are so slow
Early news about medical treatments — like yesterday’s announcement that a coronavirus vaccine has shown positive results in eight people — can feel both exciting and frustrating.

The frustrating part is the timing. Even if all continues to go well with the research into this vaccine, it won’t be available until late this year or early next year. Between now and then, the vaccine will have to endure two more research trials, one involving hundreds of people and the other involving thousands.

Given the virus’s terrible toll, that long process can seem strangely lacking in urgency. But scientists insist that it isn’t. Here are the key reasons they say that there are no easy or fast routes to a vaccine:

Early results don’t always stand. In 2015, the French drug company Sanofi began selling the first vaccine for dengue. The drug had made it through multiple research trials — although some researchers believed Sanofi had ignored worrisome signs. Sure enough, as children in the Philippines began using it, some contracted an even worse form of dengue. Today, use of the vaccine is highly restricted.

In recent testimony, Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infectious-disease expert, noted that a coronavirus vaccine could suffer from the same problem.

The larger point is that drugs that look good in small, initial studies often look less good when they’re tested in more people.

Side effects matter. A vaccine doesn’t merely need to work, as Katie Thomas, a Times reporter covering pharmaceuticals, explained to me. It needs not to have side effects that cause more damage than the virus itself.

This coronavirus seems to kill only a small percentage of people who get it. The side effects have the potential to do more damage, because any coronavirus vaccine will be given to billions of people, including many with underlying health problems.

Politics matter, too. Vaccines are the subject of frequent conspiracy theories and falsehoods. Given this skepticism, a coronavirus vaccine that did more harm than good could cause much broader damage.

It could lead people around the world to stop taking vaccines that actually work. That’s what happened in the Philippines after the dengue scandal.

All of which is a reminder that promising early results — like yesterday’s — often prove fleeting. Only about 10 percent of drugs that clear the first research phase ultimately make it to market.



tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 15842
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #80 on: May 20, 2020, 09:28:52 AM »
Even yesterday's results may not be as awesome as first thought.   Keep sciencing.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

forgetful

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4022
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #81 on: May 22, 2020, 12:15:32 PM »
It is interesting to see different reactions to vaccine data. Today a published vaccine trial from China showed 50% developed neutralizing antibodies. Some side effects of fever.

The Moderna vaccine showed less than 20% developed neutralizing antibodies.

Experts are saying the fact that only 50% developed neutralizing antibodies, indicates that the Chinese trial should be ended, and they should move on to a different candidate vaccine. The Moderna results were cheered as ground breaking, and evidence it should be fast-tracked to phase 2 and 3 trials.

Very odd and different reactions. I'm stealing Tower's line, keep sciencing.

Hards_Alumni

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4395
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #82 on: May 22, 2020, 12:36:14 PM »
It is interesting to see different reactions to vaccine data. Today a published vaccine trial from China showed 50% developed neutralizing antibodies. Some side effects of fever.

The Moderna vaccine showed less than 20% developed neutralizing antibodies.

Experts are saying the fact that only 50% developed neutralizing antibodies, indicates that the Chinese trial should be ended, and they should move on to a different candidate vaccine. The Moderna results were cheered as ground breaking, and evidence it should be fast-tracked to phase 2 and 3 trials.

Very odd and different reactions. I'm stealing Tower's line, keep sciencing.

To me, I'd keep the Chinese trial on track and admit that 50% isn't ideal, but if it's the best we have we go with it.

Moderna is a corporation, and the results are there to pump stock numbers.

forgetful

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4022
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #83 on: May 22, 2020, 01:45:00 PM »
To me, I'd keep the Chinese trial on track and admit that 50% isn't ideal, but if it's the best we have we go with it.

Moderna is a corporation, and the results are there to pump stock numbers.

Honestly, if the worst case scenario is we have a vaccine that is 20-50% effective, and has low side effects, I think most of us would lineup to get it.

That's one of the reasons I think we see a vaccine this winter. It may not be ideal/perfect, but they will be better than nothing.

MUBurrow

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1192
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #84 on: May 22, 2020, 02:08:10 PM »
Honestly, if the worst case scenario is we have a vaccine that is 20-50% effective, and has low side effects, I think most of us would lineup to get it.

That's one of the reasons I think we see a vaccine this winter. It may not be ideal/perfect, but they will be better than nothing.

Maybe, but the side effects better be next to nothing, and there will have to be a heck of a PR campaign that the science is sure as sure can be that there won't be any late-developing side effects.  I don't fancy myself an anti-vaxxer by any stretch of the imagination, but as a healthy guy with basically no covid comorbities, rolling up my sleve for something that was fast tracked, that was first tested on humans no more than six months before i get it, and is "not ideal/perfect" scares the hell out of me.

GooooMarquette

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7671
  • Who is going to guard the potatoes?!?
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #85 on: May 22, 2020, 04:18:04 PM »
Maybe, but the side effects better be next to nothing, and there will have to be a heck of a PR campaign that the science is sure as sure can be that there won't be any late-developing side effects.  I don't fancy myself an anti-vaxxer by any stretch of the imagination, but as a healthy guy with basically no covid comorbities, rolling up my sleve for something that was fast tracked, that was first tested on humans no more than six months before i get it, and is "not ideal/perfect" scares the hell out of me.

Totally agree. Whether the drug provides 20%, 50% or even more immunity, my concern with fast-tracking a drug is that they may miss significant side effects that only become apparent once given to millions of people (see, e.g., Vioxx, Accutane, Seldane, etc).

Like you, I am absolutely NOT an anti-vaxxer, but I would take my time before getting any fast-tracked COVID vaccine.

Frenns Liquor Depot

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2421
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #86 on: May 22, 2020, 05:45:17 PM »
To me, I'd keep the Chinese trial on track and admit that 50% isn't ideal, but if it's the best we have we go with it.

Moderna is a corporation, and the results are there to pump stock numbers.

Moderna issued equity following the announcement. 

Jockey

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 991
  • "I take no responsibility at all."
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #87 on: May 22, 2020, 06:24:17 PM »
Totally agree. Whether the drug provides 20%, 50% or even more immunity, my concern with fast-tracking a drug is that they may miss significant side effects that only become apparent once given to millions of people (see, e.g., Vioxx, Accutane, Seldane, etc).

Like you, I am absolutely NOT an anti-vaxxer, but I would take my time before getting any fast-tracked COVID vaccine.

I am in the same boat - along with millions of others I would think. The reason an average vaccine takes around 10 years to get to market is because of extensive Human trials that need to be run to ensure 1) safety (most important), and 2) proper dosages for all ages.

Kinda hard to know if there are long term negative effects if a drug is only tested for a few months.

MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2600
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #88 on: May 22, 2020, 06:53:33 PM »
Honestly, if the worst case scenario is we have a vaccine that is 20-50% effective, and has low side effects, I think most of us would lineup to get it.

That's one of the reasons I think we see a vaccine this winter. It may not be ideal/perfect, but they will be better than nothing.

Aren't flu vaccines sometimes only 50% effective?

forgetful

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4022
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #89 on: May 22, 2020, 07:04:24 PM »
Aren't flu vaccines sometimes only 50% effective?

Yes, because sometimes we guess the wrong strains. But it proves the point that a 50% effective vaccine can be very beneficial.

Obviously we need to make sure that there are no major side effects. But if the side effects are a headache and possibly low grade fever as has been reported in the Chinese trial, I'll take them for 50% effectiveness.

TSmith34

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2951
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #90 on: May 22, 2020, 07:42:59 PM »
Yes, because sometimes we guess the wrong strains. But it proves the point that a 50% effective vaccine can be very beneficial.

Obviously we need to make sure that there are no major side effects. But if the side effects are a headache and possibly low grade fever as has been reported in the Chinese trial, I'll take them for 50% effectiveness.
What degree of concern would you have, if any, about the safety given the severely shortened timeframe to market?
"Bigly mentally unstable, believe me.  Sad, unbelievably sad."

4everwarriors

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 13969
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #91 on: May 22, 2020, 07:58:51 PM »
Biden isn't the POTUS, and isn't making false statements about COVID on a daily basis.



Nor should he be. He's too busy figuring out how to beat himself and can now tell the color of one's skin just by knowing who they voted for. You're in good hands with Allstate, aina? 🤯
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 08:18:31 PM by 4everwarriors »
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

TSmith34

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2951
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #92 on: May 22, 2020, 08:03:47 PM »


Nor should be. He's too busy figuring out how to beat himself and can now tell the color of one's skin just by knowing who they voted for. You're in good hands with Allstate, aina? 🤯
Has he called Nazis and Klansmen good people yet?
"Bigly mentally unstable, believe me.  Sad, unbelievably sad."

pbiflyer

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 840
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #93 on: May 22, 2020, 08:16:22 PM »
Wouldn’t be counting on Moderna’s vaccine. If it really was promising, execs wouldn’t be dumping stock.

Moderna unveiled encouraging coronavirus vaccine results. Then top execs dumped nearly $30 million of stock

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/investing/moderna-coronavirus-vaccine-stock-sales/index.html

4everwarriors

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 13969
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #94 on: May 22, 2020, 08:19:33 PM »
Has he called Nazis and Klansmen good people yet?



Too senile and demented for that.
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

forgetful

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4022
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #95 on: May 22, 2020, 08:22:07 PM »
Wouldn’t be counting on Moderna’s vaccine. If it really was promising, execs wouldn’t be dumping stock.

Moderna unveiled encouraging coronavirus vaccine results. Then top execs dumped nearly $30 million of stock

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/investing/moderna-coronavirus-vaccine-stock-sales/index.html

Well I guess this answers my question of why they rushed an announcement without the trial even being fully analyzed yet.

pbiflyer

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 840
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #96 on: May 22, 2020, 08:25:20 PM »
Well I guess this answers my question of why they rushed an announcement without the trial even being fully analyzed yet.

And then there is this.

Established in 2010, Moderna has never brought a product to market, or gotten any of its nine or so vaccine candidates approved for use by the FDA. It has also never brought a product to the third and final phase of a clinical trial.

GooooMarquette

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7671
  • Who is going to guard the potatoes?!?
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #97 on: May 22, 2020, 08:36:20 PM »
Yes, because sometimes we guess the wrong strains. But it proves the point that a 50% effective vaccine can be very beneficial.

Obviously we need to make sure that there are no major side effects. But if the side effects are a headache and possibly low grade fever as has been reported in the Chinese trial, I'll take them for 50% effectiveness.


What about possible long-term risks that would never be seen in a several week trial? As you well know, drugs often have consequences that don’t show up for months to years.

If this gets approved by the end of the year (which would mean less than 6 months for phase II and III trials combined), we wouldn’t have any idea...

Hards_Alumni

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4395
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #98 on: May 22, 2020, 08:47:21 PM »


Nor should he be. He's too busy figuring out how to beat himself and can now tell the color of one's skin just by knowing who they voted for. You're in good hands with Allstate, aina? 🤯

I mean, you're not wrong.

rocky_warrior

  • Global Moderator
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6641
Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #99 on: May 22, 2020, 10:12:48 PM »
I mean, you're not wrong.

I've heard that some of the best people love our current president.