Vaccine/Antibody updates

[Lennys Tap]

I've heard that some of the best people love our current president.

Some? All of our best people love him. And everyone else, too.

[4everwarriors]

I've heard that some of the best people love our current president.

Been the best president in my lifetime.

[rocky_warrior]

Some? All of our best people love him. And everyone else, too.

LOL.  Thanks Lenny.

Well in advance, lets remember this long weekend is to thank those who have given their lives so that we can debate stupid crap here.  Brave men sent to battle.  Answered that call no matter the cause.  Bless them and their kin.

[pbiflyer]

LOL.  Thanks Lenny.

Well in advance, lets remember this long weekend is to thank those who have given their lives so that we can debate stupid crap here.  Brave men sent to battle.  Answered that call no matter the cause.  Bless them and their kin.

My 95 year old WWII vet dad thanks you for knowing that this holiday honors those that gave their lives, rather than honoring all veterans. One of his only pet peeves.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

My 95 year old WWII vet dad thanks you for knowing that this holiday honors those that gave their lives, rather than honoring all veterans. One of his only pet peeves.

"Happy Memorial day" is one of the biggest cringe moments going.

[rocky_warrior]

My 95 year old WWII vet dad thanks you for knowing that this holiday honors those that gave their lives, rather than honoring all veterans. One of his only pet peeves.

Hard to forget.  Decades ago I was one of those cub scouts placing flags on graves in our town. 

[rocky_warrior]

"Happy Memorial day" is one of the biggest cringe moments going.

I'll debate that too.  While there's not much "happy" about the "holiday", most American workers work VERY hard just for a single holiday between New Years day and Independence day.  Some excitement for a government holiday weekend is understandable in an otherwise 6 month drought of "free" days off of work.  It's not the spirit of the day, but understandable.

Now back to your Vaccine/Antibody updates.

[mu_hilltopper]

The meaning of Memorial Day is .. just not common (enough) knowledge.  I was unaware until I was about ~45 years old and became involved in a Memorial Day ceremony.  Had zero idea until then.

[GooooMarquette]

Since this thread has digressed to Memorial Day, I will throw this out there:

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/04/30/amvets-scraps-plans-rolling-thunder-style-memorial-day-run-dc.html

AMVETS has scrapped plans to carry on the Rolling Thunder tradition in Washington, D.C. this Memorial Day because of the coronavirus restrictions on large gatherings, but pledged to hold similar events next year.

...

He stressed that action by AMVETS was not a formal "cancellation." Instead, AMVETS will sponsor virtual events during the Memorial Day weekend on the POW-MIA issue and other veterans' causes and also promote a "Rolling To Remember" challenge.

The challenge is for those with motorcycles to ride 22 miles wherever they are on Sunday, May 24, the day before Memorial Day, to call attention to the average of 20-22 veteran suicides daily, Chenelly said.

————————

Kind of a cool (and safer) way to continue a nice tradition in the time of Covid.

[forgetful]

On the negative news side. The British vaccine that they were claiming could be ready by fall, and is already being mass produced, may not be that effective.

Despite resulting in neutralizing antibodies, the vaccine did not prevent Monkeys from being able to be infected with COVID and be able to spread the disease.

There claim of "positive results" in monkeys, was because none of the monkeys (very few) got viral pneumonia. The problem is, results are usually much better in monkeys than humans. So not so promising.

That also means that the neutralizing antibodies being produced in these other trials, may also be incapable of preventing infection and spread.

[GooooMarquette]

On the negative news side. The British vaccine that they were claiming could be ready by fall, and is already being mass produced, may not be that effective.

Despite resulting in neutralizing antibodies, the vaccine did not prevent Monkeys from being able to be infected with COVID and be able to spread the disease.

There claim of "positive results" in monkeys, was because none of the monkeys (very few) got viral pneumonia. The problem is, results are usually much better in monkeys than humans. So not so promising.

That also means that the neutralizing antibodies being produced in these other trials, may also be incapable of preventing infection and spread.

Ugh. Not good. This is why I am skeptical that we can find an effective vaccine and mass-produce it in time for widespread distribution within a year or less.

First, there are so many scientific hurdles - like showing that it produces antibodies, showing that they can actually prevent the disease in some significant percentage of vaccinated individuals, and showing that there aren't significant side effects (and knowing anything about long-term side effects in a couple of three-month studies). One narrow path to success, but so many opportunities for failure.

Then overlay the production issue. Our supposed solution is to ramp up production of the most promising candidates, so we have a few hundred million doses ready to go. But it wouldn't be economically feasible to do that with every possible candidate, so we have to gamble by making "educated guesses" on the ones we think have the best chance of running the gauntlet.

It is a noble and necessary goal, but a longshot at best....

[forgetful]

Ugh. Not good. This is why I am skeptical that we can find an effective vaccine and mass-produce it in time for widespread distribution within a year or less.

First, there are so many scientific hurdles - like showing that it produces antibodies, showing that they can actually prevent the disease in some significant percentage of vaccinated individuals, and showing that there aren't significant side effects (and knowing anything about long-term side effects in a couple of three-month studies). One narrow path to success, but so many opportunities for failure.

Then overlay the production issue. Our supposed solution is to ramp up production of the most promising candidates, so we have a few hundred million doses ready to go. But it wouldn't be economically feasible to do that with every possible candidate, so we have to gamble by making "educated guesses" on the ones we think have the best chance of running the gauntlet.

It is a noble and necessary goal, but a longshot at best....

I think we essentially have to take a gamble on scaling up the most promising candidates, but think it is also pretty much putting your last 5 dollars on a long-shot, in hopes of saving your house/business. It might work, but it has a lot of possibility for failure.

[forgetful]

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/24/coronavirus-vaccine-china-gottlieb-276763

This is the attitude that scares me about vaccines in development. We are viewing this as a race/competition against China. The world should be looking at this in unison.

What is interesting, is scientists are being the most transparent in human history, publishing breaking results immediately in open archives. So that we can all build off each other. The politicians are using this as a competition. That will result in a rushed vaccine that very likely could be risky, depending on if it is driven by the politician or the scientist. There is then also propaganda.

The Chinese vaccine that they discuss as being inferior and behind, published their preliminary results in the Lancet, peer reviewed. Moderna and Oxford have not. Oxfords is currently available in one of the archives (non peer reviewed). A casual examination of the three, says China's is ahead in effectiveness, but has mild side effects. Oxfords, was unable to prevent infection in monkeys. Moderna's had extremely low neutralizing antibody levels.

It really would be nice if the world worked together. That is our best chance for a safe effective vaccine.

[pbiflyer]

Sadly, that is impossible in today's world.

[forgetful]

Sadly, that is impossible in today's world.

The rest of the world did agree to work together. Only one major nation abstained from that effort.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-who-usa/u-s-says-will-not-take-part-in-who-global-drugs-vaccine-initiative-launch-idUSKCN2261WJ

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-absent-global-conference-raise-money-coronavirus-vaccine/story?id=70493681

That same major nation has been trying to poach the top scientists, to corner the market on therapies.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/world/europe/cornonavirus-vaccine-us-germany.html

[keefe]

Been the best president in my lifetime.

I place him second behind Ronaldus Magnus who was one of the greatest in the proud history of this noble Republic.

[GooooMarquette]

The rest of the world did agree to work together. Only one major nation abstained from that effort.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-who-usa/u-s-says-will-not-take-part-in-who-global-drugs-vaccine-initiative-launch-idUSKCN2261WJ

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-absent-global-conference-raise-money-coronavirus-vaccine/story?id=70493681

That same major nation has been trying to poach the top scientists, to corner the market on therapies.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/world/europe/cornonavirus-vaccine-us-germany.html

Agreed. It is unfortunate that our current leader seems to see an advantage in putting us against the rest of the world.

[keefe]

Some? All of our best people love him. And everyone else, too.

Realpolitik.


Yes, please.

America first.

[Pakuni]

"Happy Memorial day" is one of the biggest cringe moments going.

@realDonaldTrump: HAPPY MEMORIAL DAY!

[Uncle Rico]

@realDonaldTrump: HAPPY MEMORIAL DAY!

I pity the people that have been conned by President Pandemic into thinking he remotely cares about them.  Those being conned can rarely ever see it as it happens.

[Babybluejeans]

I pity the people that have been conned by President Pandemic into thinking he remotely cares about them.  Those being conned can rarely ever see it as it happens.

See, e.g., several of the posts from the geriatrics above. In order to resist the creeping notion they've been duped, they can only echo "America first" pitifully into their bowl of morning oats.

[Hards Alumni]

See, e.g., several of the posts from the geriatrics above. In order to resist the creeping notion they've been duped, they can only echo "America first" pitifully into their bowl of morning oats.

Easier to con a man than for him to admit he's been conned.

[Jockey]

I place him second behind Ronaldus Magnus who was one of the greatest in the proud history of this noble Republic.

As James Mattis said, "I earned my spurs on the battlefield; Donald Trump earned his spurs in a letter from a doctor".

Of course Mattis was a man of honor. Trump's supporters can never claim that mantle.

[GooooMarquette]

So even if we get a vaccine, only half of Americans say they would get one.

https://apnews.com/dacdc8bc428dd4df6511bfa259cfec44

The people who say no or aren't sure are probably a combination of anti-vaxxers, people who still think "it's all a hoax," and people like me who always get recommended vaccines, but are concerned about long-term side effects that could be missed by speeding through this too quickly.

We need everyone to take social distancing more seriously, even if we keep ramping up the economy.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I'll take two!