Hydroxychloroquinine updates (and other potential treatments)

[tower912]

Again, I am a bleeding heart in principle and a pragmatist in practice.    I applaud the leadership of the governors of Ohio, Maryland, Massachusetts.    I am a believer in science, leadership, and outcomes

[GooooMarquette]

So you are a "lifelong Democrat" who claims that he's not tribal?  I belong to no political party and have voted Republican multiple times.  How is that tribal?

Here is what I am.  I am against stupidity.  I am against bad science. 

You link to things that are anti-intellectual, anti-science nonsense with biased political agendas all over them.  And I enjoy picking them apart and exposing them for what they are rather than brainlessly saying "wow this guy has an interesting point" like you do.  I think critically.  You don't.

Yep. Follow the science - especially the results of peer-reviewed studies.

[Uncle Rico]

Yep. Follow the science - especially the results of peer-reviewed studies.

Just pray it away

[MU82]

Just pray it away

Or shoot it.

[Hards Alumni]

Or shoot it.

Ya ever try that with murder hornets?

[Jockey]

Just pray it away

Pence has it covered. Virus will be gone by Monday.

[D'Lo Brown]

You agree with Chicos that people on the left are "cheering" for this to fail? Wow - that doesn't reflect anyone on the left that I know. Everyone I know just wants to get back to normal, and do it safely.

I'd love to see it work, but thus far the limited data I have seen (the studies in JAMA and the New England Journal of Medicine) don't look promising.

I spend an hour or so per day lately on Twitter, which is far more than I should. All of the people I follow or interact with are either on the left, or just not political. I've never voted Republican & probably never will.

If you spend any time on Twitter (especially concerning politics) you'll see most "resisters" have developed a scientific expertise on hydroxychloroquine. Now, why would people interested in politics become scientific experts on a drug, suddenly? Why wouldn't they be interested in remdesivir, or ivermectin, or any of these other drugs? They've never even heard of the others let alone read a research study on them. Yet they have read all the research on HCQ & have all manner of medical advice on that drug alone.

That's all I'm agreeing with Chicos on. People on the left (the side I'm on) were so ready to dive head first into making a drug a political debate. Reading research studies, case reports, the whole enchilada, to arm themselves as they do in all political arguments with info they can use while scrapping on Twitter or wherever. "They're for it, so I'm against it".

I'm against Trump but I'm for HCQ. Especially because it is so widely used. People potentially on their death bed as we speak that just received it. I'm hopeful for them & I'm hopeful for better results in upcoming research. There are zero drugs available today for treating COVID that are without serious limitations. Almost all we have is hope.

It takes 2 to tango. The President was thoroughly wrong to start it but the reason it has legs is the widespread interest on the left as well.

[Hards Alumni]

I spend an hour or so per day lately on Twitter, which is far more than I should. All of the people I follow or interact with are either on the left, or just not political. I've never voted Republican & probably never will.

If you spend any time on Twitter (especially concerning politics) you'll see most "resisters" have developed a scientific expertise on hydroxychloroquine. Now, why would people interested in politics become scientific experts on a drug, suddenly? Why wouldn't they be interested in remdesivir, or ivermectin, or any of these other drugs? They've never even heard of the others let alone read a research study on them. Yet they have read all the research on HCQ & have all manner of medical advice on that drug alone.

That's all I'm agreeing with Chicos on. People on the left (the side I'm on) were so ready to dive head first into making a drug a political debate. Reading research studies, case reports, the whole enchilada, to arm themselves as they do in all political arguments with info they can use while scrapping on Twitter or wherever. "They're for it, so I'm against it".

I'm against Trump but I'm for HCQ. Especially because it is so widely used. People potentially on their death bed as we speak that just received it. I'm hopeful for them & I'm hopeful for better results in upcoming research. There are zero drugs available today for treating COVID that are without serious limitations. Almost all we have is hope.

It takes 2 to tango. The President was thoroughly wrong to start it but the reason it has legs is the widespread interest on the left as well.

That street goes both ways.  People are blindly supporting HCQ because it was heavily recommended by the President. 

Also, you shouldn't be for or against a drug.  You should follow the science wherever it leads.

[Uncle Rico]

I spend an hour or so per day lately on Twitter, which is far more than I should. All of the people I follow or interact with are either on the left, or just not political. I've never voted Republican & probably never will.

If you spend any time on Twitter (especially concerning politics) you'll see most "resisters" have developed a scientific expertise on hydroxychloroquine. Now, why would people interested in politics become scientific experts on a drug, suddenly? Why wouldn't they be interested in remdesivir, or ivermectin, or any of these other drugs? They've never even heard of the others let alone read a research study on them. Yet they have read all the research on HCQ & have all manner of medical advice on that drug alone.

That's all I'm agreeing with Chicos on. People on the left (the side I'm on) were so ready to dive head first into making a drug a political debate. Reading research studies, case reports, the whole enchilada.

It takes 2 to tango. The President was thoroughly wrong to start it but the reason it has legs is the widespread interest on the left as well.

I agree with this.  I'm reading "The Great Influenza" about the 1918 pandemic and there's no way we're close to having this figured out when it comes to treatment. 

I frame it this way when it comes to the President championing a course of treatment/prevention, it's irresponsible and possibly fatal.  The left should be skeptical but hopeful. 

I hope it works but we don't know.  The President needs to defer to those in the hospitals and laboratories.  He can't because he's a narcissist.  If it doesn't work, he'll blame someone else and his true believers will be skeptical of anything the real experts say even more. 

Treatment and prevention will be an on-going process that will change over and over.  The sooner we accept this, the faster we can beat this.  There is no victory anywhere at the moment. 

[tower912]

I have no problem with hydoxychloroqinine.   I am all about outcomes.   The studies so far are mixed.  Some have had some success.   Others have shown no difference.  Others have been shut down because of negative side effects.    Facts.

So.    It isn't a panacea.   Hyping it as such is dangerous on a couple of levels.   One, it simply not a silver bullet and it isn't fair to give that kind of hope.  Two, by the White House and its echo chamber hyping it, a so so treatment becomes politicized, which does no one any good.

[shoothoops]

And just like that, Trump said he is ending his Hydroxychloroquine "regimen" .....it's like magic. He just so happened to mention Monday that he's taking it. You would think he dangerously gaslighted the media and country for a few days as a distraction from his 4th late Friday night firing of an Inspector General (and State Department investigation.) Nah, couldn't be that.

[GooooMarquette]

I spend an hour or so per day lately on Twitter, which is far more than I should. All of the people I follow or interact with are either on the left, or just not political. I've never voted Republican & probably never will.

If you spend any time on Twitter (especially concerning politics) you'll see most "resisters" have developed a scientific expertise on hydroxychloroquine. Now, why would people interested in politics become scientific experts on a drug, suddenly? Why wouldn't they be interested in remdesivir, or ivermectin, or any of these other drugs? They've never even heard of the others let alone read a research study on them. Yet they have read all the research on HCQ & have all manner of medical advice on that drug alone.

That's all I'm agreeing with Chicos on. People on the left (the side I'm on) were so ready to dive head first into making a drug a political debate. Reading research studies, case reports, the whole enchilada, to arm themselves as they do in all political arguments with info they can use while scrapping on Twitter or wherever. "They're for it, so I'm against it".

I'm against Trump but I'm for HCQ. Especially because it is so widely used. People potentially on their death bed as we speak that just received it. I'm hopeful for them & I'm hopeful for better results in upcoming research. There are zero drugs available today for treating COVID that are without serious limitations. Almost all we have is hope.

It takes 2 to tango. The President was thoroughly wrong to start it but the reason it has legs is the widespread interest on the left as well.

Maybe the underlined is the difference - I don't spend any time on Twitter. From what I saw during a brief use of it a few years back, it's mostly full of knee-jerk reactions that represent the true extremes of any debate. Kind of like the primal scream when you stub your toe on a piece of furniture before you calm down a few seconds later.

So yeah, I get why your perspective that people are "cheering" for HQC to fail might be different from mine.

[Hards Alumni]

Maybe the underlined is the difference - I don't spend any time on Twitter. From what I saw during a brief use of it a few years back, it's mostly full of knee-jerk reactions that represent the true extremes of any debate. Kind of like the primal scream when you stub your toe on a piece of furniture before you calm down a few seconds later.

So yeah, I get why your perspective that people are "cheering" for HQC to fail might be different from mine.

That is the PERFECT description of the twittersphere.

[tower912]

Twitter is like the game threads here.  A whole lot of knee jerk dumb.


Edit.  That is an unfair broad brush generalization.   Shame on me.   

Some Twitter is like some game threads here.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Twitter is the yahoo article comments section moved to an open platform.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Twitter is like the game threads here.  A whole lot of knee jerk dumb.


Edit.  That is an unfair broad brush generalization.   Shame on me.   

Some Twitter is like some game threads here.

Nah, you were good with your first description.

[The Sultan]

Twitter is the yahoo article comments section moved to an open platform.

Yes!

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Twitter is the yahoo article comments section moved to an open platform.

Plus porn.

[jesmu84]

Plus porn.

Best of both worlds, eh?

[Hards Alumni]

Twitter is the yahoo article comments section moved to an open platform.

100%

[forgetful]

If you spend any time on Twitter (especially concerning politics) you'll see most "resisters" have developed a scientific expertise on hydroxychloroquine. Now, why would people interested in politics become scientific experts on a drug, suddenly? Why wouldn't they be interested in remdesivir, or ivermectin, or any of these other drugs? They've never even heard of the others let alone read a research study on them. Yet they have read all the research on HCQ & have all manner of medical advice on that drug alone.
I'm against Trump but I'm for HCQ.

I think you are seeing what you want to see on this end. As you say, you are for HCQ, which means you will be irked by naysayers, and notice that more. Where this started, was Trump disregarded science, and disregarded all other treatments, like remdesivir, to go all in on HCQ, because Foxnews liked it.

It became, all HCQ, wall-to-wall on every right-wing site. Most that I know that usually vote democratic, were irritated by him pushing a drug with little evidence to support it, while there were others far more promising. This is especially true for scientists, because they understand and read the raw data and understand it was potentially dangerous. They did research the others, and used it as a, "why not these argument." You can go back in this thread, and see me emphasizing that I think Remdesivir has a far higher likelihood of success. But HCQ became a rallying cry of the right.

They are/were interested in the other drugs. But no one disagrees with them being good. You don't see Trump talking about Remdesivir, or other drugs, but he is still pushing HCQ. So, that becomes a point of contention and is what people focus on.

A good example. How often do you see people on the right mention Ivermectin. It actually does have stronger evidence to support it than HCQ, and has a better safety profile? It doesn't even get brought up ever, because Trump is all in on HCQ.

Trump put HCQ in the spotlight. His base flocked to it as a rallying cry, pushing doctor's to prescribe it against FDA regulations, and stopping people who do need the drug from getting it. It was causing harm in some patients, yet still being pushed from the WH. People needed to speak up on it.

And almost all I know on the left. Say everything should be tested in controlled clinical trials. And be thrilled if HCQ turned out to be a cure. But as it stands right now, there isn't data to support it, so as Tower says...keep on scienceing.

[MU82]

And just like that, Trump said he is ending his Hydroxychloroquine "regimen" .....it's like magic. He just so happened to mention Monday that he's taking it. You would think he dangerously gaslighted the media and country for a few days as a distraction from his 4th late Friday night firing of an Inspector General (and State Department investigation.) Nah, couldn't be that.

Why stop? I mean ... What the hell does he have to lose?

[Jockey]

And just like that, Trump said he is ending his Hydroxychloroquine "regimen" .....it's like magic. He just so happened to mention Monday that he's taking it. You would think he dangerously gaslighted the media and country for a few days as a distraction from his 4th late Friday night firing of an Inspector General (and State Department investigation.) Nah, couldn't be that.

I said at the time that there was 0% chance he was taking it.

It was the "sharpie around Georgia" CYA.

[shoothoops]

Study:

Hydroxychloroquine combined with antibiotic has 45% increased risk of death and 411% increased risk of serious heart arrythmias.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/22/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-study/#click=https://t.co/IFL3g7rylo

[tower912]

One study.  There are others.   Bottom line for me; there are other treatments I would want my doctor to use on me.