MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => COVID-19 => Topic started by: jesmu84 on April 07, 2020, 05:21:27 PM
-
Figured we could start this separate
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/06/hydroxychloroquine-update-for-april-6
-
Well, if the Chloroquine is having negative interactions with Metformin, that eliminates it for a lot of diabetics.
-
Whether or not he has a financial stake - POTUS has no business commenting on the potential efficacy of a medical treatment. That should be left exclusively to the FDA, state health officials and doctors.
-
After Trump's statements about hydroxychloroquine, lupus and arthritis patients face drug shortage.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/health/hydroxychloroquine-shortage-lupus-arthritis/index.html
-
Whether or not he has a financial stake - POTUS has no business commenting on the potential efficacy of a medical treatment. That should be left exclusively to the FDA, state health officials and doctors.
The survey of 6000 doctors shared a few days ago showed the best alternative treatment results doctors have seen came from this drug. Some doctors have spoken highly of it. This comes back to what experts to believe or listen to. Leaders in other states have also spoken about it. A Democrat state rep in Michigan attributed her recovery in part from the drug. He is not alone it talking about the drug as a hopeful alternative. The financial stake is something less than $3000 according to the press and as a little as $99. Hard to believe anyone is using that angle. There are numerous areas to take issue with, his financial stake is not one of them and looks petty.
-
The survey of 6000 doctors shared a few days ago showed the best alternative treatment results doctors have seen came from this drug. Some doctors have spoken highly of it. This comes back to what experts to believe or listen to. Leaders in other states have also spoken about it. A Democrat state rep in Michigan attributed her recovery in part from the drug. He is not alone it talking about the drug as a hopeful alternative. The financial stake is something less than $3000 according to the press and as a little as $99. Hard to believe anyone is using that angle. There are numerous areas to take issue with, his financial stake is not one of them and looks petty.
He has a financial stake and one of his donors has even a larger stake. But I agree that’s not the issue.
The issue ois the President of the United States should not be giving out medical advice that runs counter to doctors who know better.
Sorry I know that is harsh for someone as soft and squishy as the moderate you claim to be, but that’s the reality.
-
https://twitter.com/joshgerstein/status/1247682413687222272?s=19
France halted hydroxy trial
Edit: per Lenny (and replies), unclear on exactly what is going on here.
-
https://twitter.com/joshgerstein/status/1247682413687222272?s=19
France halted hydroxy trial
This may be fake news.
-
Update on convalescent plasma therapy. I think the headline is a little sensational/premature since like everything else being tried it has to go through clinical trials. Additionally, it seems like a slowish process. One donor can provide enough plasma for four treatments, but it also talks about some donors having more anti-bodies than others.
That said, I have friend and co-worker that tested positive and has recovered so I know who to hit up for this.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/plasma-treatment-being-tested-new-york-may-be-coronavirus-gamechanger-n1178436
-
Update on convalescent plasma therapy. I think the headline is a little sensational/premature since like everything else being tried it has to go through clinical trials. Additionally, it seems like a slowish process. One donor can provide enough plasma for four treatments, but it also talks about some donors having more anti-bodies than others.
That said, I have friend and co-worker that tested positive and has recovered so I know who to hit up for this.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/plasma-treatment-being-tested-new-york-may-be-coronavirus-gamechanger-n1178436
This is my favorite in terms of promise. But it goes beyond this. I posted a link to this study a while ago. But, a Chinese lab sequenced all the antibodies from recovered patients, and then tested them all for best efficacy against COVID-19. The advantage here is they have a library of antibodies, that can now be produced on scale and the used in patients. It will require some testing, but Chinese biotech may have this ready to go in 3-4 months. US companies in 6 months.
I have a colleague that works in this arena and he is very bullish about it. Similar in design to convalescent therapy, but can be done on industrial scale and without the need for a blood match.
-
This is my favorite in terms of promise. But it goes beyond this. I posted a link to this study a while ago. But, a Chinese lab sequenced all the antibodies from recovered patients, and then tested them all for best efficacy against COVID-19. The advantage here is they have a library of antibodies, that can now be produced on scale and the used in patients. It will require some testing, but Chinese biotech may have this ready to go in 3-4 months. US companies in 6 months.
I have a colleague that works in this arena and he is very bullish about it. Similar in design to convalescent therapy, but can be done on industrial scale and without the need for a blood match.
Very interesting, thanks for the additional information. So if produced at scale, would giving the anti-bodies to unaffected people protect them from infection?
-
Very interesting, thanks for the additional information. So if produced at scale, would giving the anti-bodies to unaffected people protect them from infection?
Technically, if given close to the time of infection (where they are still circulating in the blood stream), they would limit the risk of infection. But that wouldn't be the goal here. It is really a scalable replacement of convalescent plasma. If you were to get ill, these antibodies would fight the virus until your body starts to produce its own effective antibodies.
So really a treatment, not a protection. That said, high-risk individuals that may have been exposed could be given this immediately after exposure, and then likely never progress to serious illness.
-
The CDC has removed from its website highly unusual guidance informing doctors on how to prescribe hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine, drugs recommended by President Donald Trump to treat the coronavirus.
In other news, the US is losing 47% of their supply of the drug as India has banned exports of it. Hopefully Lupus and Arthritis sufferers will not suffer even more with the dwindling supply.
-
The CDC has removed from its website highly unusual guidance informing doctors on how to prescribe hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine, drugs recommended by President Donald Trump to treat the coronavirus.
In other news, the US is losing 47% of their supply of the drug as India has banned exports of it. Hopefully Lupus and Arthritis sufferers will not suffer even more with the dwindling supply.
One positive of this pandemic is how it has illuminated our dependency on China and India to furnish our drug supply. Global economy sucks when you have countries like China and India who can pay pennies to their labor as compared to American labor.
-
The Onion is always there to amuse us.
Trump Overturns Presidential Limo While Touting Effectiveness Of PCP To Treat Coronavirus
https://www.theonion.com/trump-overturns-presidential-limo-while-touting-effecti-1842733129?utm_source=TheOnion_Daily_RSS&utm_medium=email
-
https://www.newsweek.com/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-france-heart-cardiac-1496810
-
https://www.newsweek.com/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-france-heart-cardiac-1496810
The good news is that only rs would actually believe Trump. :'(
-
https://www.newsweek.com/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-france-heart-cardiac-1496810
Yep. Mike Ackerman’s lab has identified several genetic markers linked to sudden death due to long QT intervals, so he knows his stuff. Here is an article from yesterday about his warnings with hydrocychloroquine.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/mayo-clinic-cardiologist-inexcusable-ignore-hydroxychloroquine-side-effects-n1178776
And on the personal side, I have worked with Mike and he is a tremendous human being. Here is one article about a girl from Michigan he was helping to treat several years back:
https://sharing.mayoclinic.org/2009/05/09/a-prom-promise-kept/
-
One positive of this pandemic is how it has illuminated our dependency on China and India to furnish our drug supply. Global economy sucks when you have countries like China and India who can pay pennies to their labor as compared to American labor.
Uhhh, isn’t this just your normal free market capitalism?
Company A produces widget B in the USA for y amount of dollars. Finds out can produce widget B can be produced for Z amount of dollars in India or China.
Y>Z , thus company moves manufacturing to India or China.
-
I will take plasma with antibodies over the chloroquine.
-
Uhhh, isn’t this just your normal free market capitalism?
Company A produces widget B in the USA for y amount of dollars. Finds out can produce widget B can be produced for Z amount of dollars in India or China.
Y>Z , thus company moves manufacturing to India or China.
Widgets, sure. Some things are more important than widgets. Consumers are capable of making more informed choices if it’s important enough.
-
https://www.newsweek.com/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-france-heart-cardiac-1496810
Stopped treatment on ONE patient. Slightly different than France stopped treatments on patients period.
-
Widgets, sure. Some things are more important than widgets. Consumers are capable of making more informed choices if it’s important enough.
I get it, but big pharma and their shareholders are by large driven by $$$, so yeah, they kind of look at their products as widgets.
If they want to change that, of course that’s on them, they will just have to justify it to their shareholders and lower profits, or raise prices. This ain’t rocket surgery.
-
I get it, but big pharma and their shareholders are by large driven by $$$, so yeah, they kind of look at their products as widgets.
If they want to change that, of course that’s on them, they will just have to justify it to their shareholders and lower profits, or raise prices. This ain’t rocket surgery.
Would it surprise you if in the relatively near future consumers were willing to reward companies manufacturing important drugs in the USA rather than China even if it cost them a little more?
-
Would it surprise you if in the relatively near future consumers were willing to reward companies manufacturing important drugs in the USA rather than China even if it cost them a little more?
I honestly try to do this when feasible.
Do you know how difficult it is to find a "made in USA" garden hose on Amazon?
-
I honestly try to do this when feasible.
Do you know how difficult it is to find a "made in USA" garden hose on Amazon?
Same here. I have transitioned most of what I wear to Made in USA stuff, but it has taken time and effort. Like you said, you don’t find a lot on Amazon or local places. Most has to be ordered straight from the manufacturer.
-
Would it surprise you if in the relatively near future consumers were willing to reward companies manufacturing important drugs in the USA rather than China even if it cost them a little more?
So it’s on the consumer to pay more, not the company to make less.
Perhaps we can find a middle road?
-
So it’s on the consumer to pay more, not the company to make less.
Perhaps we can find a middle road?
Perhaps. Some give on both sides would be best for all.
-
That is usually the case in most things.
-
Here is info if you want to follow a clinical trial on hydroxychloroquine
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-clinical-trial-hydroxychloroquine-potential-therapy-covid-19-begins
-
Over 100 drugs and compounds now being tested.
The Best Hopes for a Coronavirus Drug
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/04/what-coronavirus-drug-will-look-like/609661/
-
https://www.newsweek.com/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-france-heart-cardiac-1496810
Risk factor go up exponentially if adding azithromycin to hydroxy, as that extends QT, escalating risk.
"Ferrari said that hydroxychloroquine on its own presents only a small cardiac risk. However, when given alongside the antibiotic azithromycin, with which it is being prescribed in combination for the treatment of coronavirus, the risk increases."
-
Risk factor go up exponentially if adding azithromycin to hydroxy, as that extends QT, escalating risk.
"Ferrari said that hydroxychloroquine on its own presents only a small cardiac risk. However, when given alongside the antibiotic azithromycin, with which it is being prescribed in combination for the treatment of coronavirus, the risk increases."
Yes, this has been discussed on here. And it is important to note, that no studies have shown hydroxy to be effective on its own. The only studies (no controls) that showed efficacy were with azithromycin.
-
Uhhh, isn’t this just your normal free market capitalism?
Company A produces widget B in the USA for y amount of dollars. Finds out can produce widget B can be produced for Z amount of dollars in India or China.
Y>Z , thus company moves manufacturing to India or China.
Okay. Do you consider the imposition of minimum wage and mandatory company paid benefits, etc., to be free market?
I find it confounding that most employer/employee contracts are set up "at-will." The employee takes no risk in going to work for the employer - if they don't like the work conditions, management, compensation - nothing stopping them from walking out the door and finding a better fit for themselves.
People get angered over the loss of middle class jobs, and that the middle class are being left behind. Well, we've essentially given our domestic companies little choice but to outsource given the mandated wage/benefit protections here, as compared to China/India.
-
People get angered over the loss of middle class jobs, and that the middle class are being left behind. Well, we've essentially given our domestic companies little choice but to outsource given the mandated wage/benefit protections here, as compared to China/India.
IMO, we shouldn't aspire to be China or India when it comes to wages and benefits. Germany would be a much better comparator.
-
Back on topic, does anyone know when we will hear an update on remdesivir trials? I think this one holds the most promise...way more than hydroxchlorquinine
-
Ha, just googled and answered my own question. It is good news, but not conclusive (no control):
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2007016
https://www.businessinsider.com/gilead-remdesivir-clinical-data-in-covid-19-patients-2020-4
"Of the 61 patients who received at least one dose of remdesivir, data from 8 could not be analyzed (including 7 patients with no post-treatment data and 1 with a dosing error). Of the 53 patients whose data were analyzed, 22 were in the United States, 22 in Europe or Canada, and 9 in Japan. At baseline, 30 patients (57%) were receiving mechanical ventilation and 4 (8%) were receiving extracorporeal membrane oxygenation. During a median follow-up of 18 days, 36 patients (68%) had an improvement in oxygen-support class, including 17 of 30 patients (57%) receiving mechanical ventilation who were extubated. A total of 25 patients (47%) were discharged, and 7 patients (13%) died; mortality was 18% (6 of 34) among patients receiving invasive ventilation and 5% (1 of 19) among those not receiving invasive ventilation."
Not a miracle drug, but a 18% mortality rate of patients on ventilation is probably an improvement over a placebo.
-
Given that we see survival rates of 20-25% on ventilation, that would be an impressive improvement.
-
IMO, we shouldn't aspire to be China or India when it comes to wages and benefits. Germany would be a much better comparator.
I think he was meaning moreso we can't compete with China/India cause we have wages and benefits that treat workers like people, and not utterly disposable labor. People can complain about worker treatment or wages in the US (with some merit), but its nothing compared to those countries which is why they can produce at a fraction of the cost.
-
Detroit is trying it as a prophylactic. Skeptical, but support every experiment.
-
Good news
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/10/gileads-experimental-drug-remdesivir-shows-hopeful-signs-small-group-coronavirus-patients (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/10/gileads-experimental-drug-remdesivir-shows-hopeful-signs-small-group-coronavirus-patients)
-
Given that we see survival rates of 20-25% on ventilation, that would be an impressive improvement.
Agreed. The real impact will be if we see significant improvements in patients before they are put on ventilators.
I think this is far and away our best shot. At least until vaccine. Convalescent antibodies are another weapon, but tougher to scale.
-
Detroit is trying it as a prophylactic. Skeptical, but support every experiment.
What do you mean? They are giving remdesivir to healthy people? That seems kind of an insane waste of resources
-
What do you mean? They are giving remdesivir to healthy people? That seems kind of an insane waste of resources
Hydroxychloroqinine
-
Hydroxychloroqinine
Also seems foolish considering there are lupus patients unable to get their needed medicine
-
Testing it to see if it can ultimately used as a vaccine.
-
Testing it to see if it can ultimately used as a vaccine.
Used "as a vaccine" or as an adjunct to vaccines that are being developed? Because it definitely is not the former...
-
They are testing 3000 healthy doctors, nurses, first responders. Placebos, different dosing, daily v weekly, etc.
-
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.08.20054551v1
Background: Hydroxychloroquine has recently received Emergency Use Authorization by the FDA and is currently prescribed in combination with azithromycin for COVID-19 pneumonia. We studied the safety of hydroxychloroquine, alone and in combination with azithromycin.
Methods: New user cohort studies were conducted including 16 severe adverse events (SAEs). Rheumatoid arthritis patients aged 18+ and initiating hydroxychloroquine were compared to those initiating sulfasalazine and followed up over 30 days. Self-controlled case series (SCCS) were conducted to further establish safety in wider populations. Separately, SAEs associated with hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin (compared to hydroxychloroquine-amoxicillin) were studied. Data comprised 14 sources of claims data or electronic medical records from Germany, Japan, Netherlands, Spain, UK, and USA. Propensity score stratification and calibration using negative control outcomes were used to address confounding. Cox models were fitted to estimate calibrated hazard ratios (CalHRs) according to drug use. Estimates were pooled where I2<40%.
Results: Overall, 956,374 and 310,350 users of hydroxychloroquine and sulfasalazine, and 323,122 and 351,956 users of hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine-amoxicillin were included. No excess risk of SAEs was identified when 30-day hydroxychloroquine and sulfasalazine use were compared. SCCS confirmed these findings. However, when azithromycin was added to hydroxychloroquine, we observed an increased risk of 30-day cardiovascular mortality (CalHR2.19 [1.22-3.94]), chest pain/angina (CalHR 1.15 [95% CI 1.05-1.26]), and heart failure (CalHR 1.22 [95% CI 1.02-1.45])
Conclusions: Short-term hydroxychloroquine treatment is safe, but addition of azithromycin may induce heart failure and cardiovascular mortality, potentially due to synergistic effects on QT length. We call for caution if such combination is to be used in the management of Covid-19.
-
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.08.20054551v1
Given that heart failure is one of the possible outcomes of COVID-19. There have likely been people on this treatment that died of heart failure, and we will never know whether it was from the treatment or the disease, or both.
-
Ivermectin emerging as a treatment option. Early case reports & research studies showing a lot of promise.
Ivermectin already in use in humans for a range of ailments including roundworms, head lice, & other parasitic infections.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7129059/
In the above article, note the proposed mechanisms of action including the inhibition of coronavirus "cargo proteins" from entry into the nucleus of the host cell. Many RNA viruses do require entry of some elements into the nucleus for proper assembly as well as inhibition of other cellular processes (explained in article below).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5445102/
Another report of physicians utilizing ivermectin (a news story for those not interested in the science):
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/local-doctor-tries-new-coronavirus-drug-treatment/2219465/
More articles & a few more studies available... Google-able.
Ivermectin is a widely available & extremely inexpensive generic drug.
-
Great. I support all of the hard work being done to develop reliable, effective treatment paths.
-
...being widely available, generic, & cheap means we perhaps won't hear much about it as most pharmaceutical companies are pursuing research on new drugs they can corner the market on.
-
Ivermectin emerging as a treatment option. Early case reports & research studies showing a lot of promise.
Ivermectin already in use in humans for a range of ailments including roundworms, head lice, & other parasitic infections.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7129059/
In the above article, note the proposed mechanisms of action including the inhibition of coronavirus "cargo proteins" from entry into the nucleus of the host cell. Many RNA viruses do require entry of some elements into the nucleus for proper assembly as well as inhibition of other cellular processes (explained in article below).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5445102/
Another report of physicians utilizing ivermectin (a news story for those not interested in the science):
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/local-doctor-tries-new-coronavirus-drug-treatment/2219465/
More articles & a few more studies available... Google-able.
Ivermectin is a widely available & extremely inexpensive generic drug.
What is the timeframe for all of the potential drugs being tested? Over 100 are in trial studies currently, but assuming one or more of those bear out to be useful in combatting COVID-19, how long does a trial typically run and then how long before a treatment can be put into widespread use?
-
What is the timeframe for all of the potential drugs being tested? Over 100 are in trial studies currently, but assuming one or more of those bear out to be useful in combatting COVID-19, how long does a trial typically run and then how long before a treatment can be put into widespread use?
Depends on the results. If they started using any of these and saw rapid and obvious benefits. They would end the trials very quickly and put this into wide use.
More typically, you see limited if any benefit, that means you need large numbers to determine if there is really a statistically significant benefit. And you need more time to make sure that any statistically significant benefit, outweighs any immediate, or longer-term risks. Similarly, you need broad patient scope to make sure it isn't deleterious to specific populations. Those take much longer.
-
Taking it from the test tube to humans and then figuring out dosage takes time. This drug, if effective, has already been tested on humans and the side effects have been figured out.
-
Taking it from the test tube to humans and then figuring out dosage takes time. This drug, if effective, has already been tested on humans and the side effects have been figured out.
Yep. There’s a HUGE difference in timeframe between a totally new drug and an existing drug being tested for a new use.
-
In all seriousness, a drug like this is the dream silver bullet. Already produced in generic form, already safe for human use with limited side effects. If, for the sake of argument, it is shown over the next few weeks to be as effective in humans as in the test tube, it will get mortality down to a level similar to influenza and it will be game on. So, go science.
-
In all seriousness, a drug like this is the dream silver bullet. Already produced in generic form, already safe for human use with limited side effects. If, for the sake of argument, it is shown over the next few weeks to be as effective in humans as in the test tube, it will get mortality down to a level similar to influenza and it will be game on. So, go science.
I absolutely hope that something like this works, but I will caution.
I have seen numerous times, diabetes, and alzheimers/parkinsons etc. completely cured in mice. I mean it is gone, no medication needed ever again. It then doesn't translate over to us. The jump going from cells to animal is huge, going from animals to humans also significant.
The approach though of looking for already approved drugs that work in patients is truly the dream and silver bullet, and we need to continue to encourage the science, and study of these molecules.
-
If I find myself in this situation and they say we can put you in a control group or one with this treatment, my hope is that I receive the treatment. There are risks for all drugs.
Yale University school of medicine has the following guidance. Are they part of the clinical trials underway? The drug is recommended to be used.
https://medicine.yale.edu/intmed/COVID-19%20TREATMENT%20ADULT%20Algorithm%204.3.20_382832_5_v2.pdf
-
What is the timeframe for all of the potential drugs being tested? Over 100 are in trial studies currently, but assuming one or more of those bear out to be useful in combatting COVID-19, how long does a trial typically run and then how long before a treatment can be put into widespread use?
As I'm sure you're already aware there is an endless amount of nuance to that answer but I think we will have much better data AND put into use within weeks.
IMO, China is well ahead of us in the realm of treatments & that is perhaps a primary (& underreported) reason they have seemed to miraculously improve. IMO, my hypothesis is that treatments (and China's impressive abilities with logistics & quick distribution) were a large contributing factor to their reopening. They (& we, I hope) don't need to locate 100 billion ventilators if the vast majority of serious complications are eliminated following early detection of symptoms & treatment within 24ish hours.
FYI, I am not a doctor or healthcare provider in any way. I'm also not a veterinarian, but I've heard that you can find 1% ivermectin solution on Amazon Prime if your horse gets roundworms. Of course, it might be something to consider if you start to notice the early signs of roundworms, & that you'd want to follow the weight-based dosing recommendations for your horse. They say just a single dose is effective.
Surely you will want to listen to your federal government on this because they are infinitely wise - for example when the surgeon general instructed us to stop acting crazy & wearing masks.
https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/product-safety-information/fda-letter-stakeholders-do-not-use-ivermectin-intended-animals-treatment-covid-19-humans
-
Interesting treatments to increase oxygen intake.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus.html)
-
Any update on Provasic?
-
Any update on Provasic?
Some very minor hepatitis issues, but what have you got to lose?
-
Any update on Provasic?
Just waiting for Dr. Kimball to sign off.
-
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/hyped-malaria-pill-doesnt-help-clear-coronavirus-in-study/ar-BB12EEbv?li=BBnb7Kz
Might need to find a new panacea to tout.
-
Too bad, but not at all surprising.
-
No, it isn't. Keep sciencing.
-
Wait, so the non-doctor with the gut feeling was wrong? Well that is surprising.
Guru and rocket await new orders.
-
"What do you have to lose?"
-- Stable Genious
COVID-19: Brazilian trial for drug touted by Trump halted after 11 patients die on high dose
A possible treatment for COVID-19, heavily touted by U.S. President Donald Trump in recent weeks, has been withdrawn from high-dose use in a Brazilian trial because it was feared to be having adverse effects on patients’ hearts.
Chloroquine, normally a drug used to treat malaria, has inspired hope in some medical circles amid reports that it can help to offset the symptoms of the deadly virus. But the New York Times reports that a recent clinical trial saw patients develop irregular heartbeats, a number of whom developed heart arrhythmias and later died.
The similar drugs chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine have been pushed by Trump as a possible partial solution to the pandemic in the U.S., where they are sold under brand names like Nivaquine and Plaquenil. The Times reports that the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has granted emergency approval for the use of both drugs at U.S. hospitals, and U.S.
companies have begun producing them in greater numbers. Trump has been vociferous on the drugs’ potential benefits, but among those to contradict his views are his own top expert Anthony Fauci, who has provided regular updates to Americans on the crisis. During one recent daily White House coronavirus briefing, Trump stepped in and prevented Fauci from answering a question about hydroxychloroquine."
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/covid-19-brazil-trial-for-drug-chloroquine-touted-by-trump-stopped-after-11-patients-die
-
I'm pretty sure it's still being widely used, however? And that whole "not yet peer reviewed" issue will probably lead to more indifference.
I don't think the research really ever favored that drug, more in theory that it ought to work (especially if you're deciding to not consider the common side effects)
-
I'm pretty sure it's still being widely used, however? And that whole "not yet peer reviewed" issue will probably lead to more indifference.
I don't think the research really ever favored that drug, more in theory that it ought to work (especially if you're deciding to not consider the common side effects)
Research never did favor hydroxychloroquine. And it shouldn't have ever worked in theory. There wasn't any biochemical reason it would work. It might lower overall inflammation, but there are better, and safer drugs for that.
-
This looks very hopeful:
https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/16/early-peek-at-data-on-gilead-coronavirus-drug-suggests-patients-are-responding-to-treatment/
A Chicago hospital treating severe Covid-19 patients with Gilead Sciences’ antiviral medicine remdesivir in a closely watched clinical trial is seeing rapid recoveries in fever and respiratory symptoms, with nearly all patients discharged in less than a week, STAT has learned.
-
Never stop sciencing
-
remdesivir has been mentioned a few (bunch of...) times - and seems like it may have some good characteristics in treating this. Now...hopefully not too many bad characteristics.
And it's free for now!
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-04/gilead-to-donate-experimental-coronavirus-drug-for-140-000-cases
Don't get me wrong - it was already in clinical trials - and if GIlead can get it approved faster - they have everything to gain. But hey - if it helps a few (or a bunch) of people in these trials - for free - great!
And don't tell the WHO haters that they've been on this since January -
A World Health Organization panel said in January that remdesivir was considered to be the most promising therapeutic
-
remdesivir has been mentioned a few (bunch of...) times - and seems like it may have some good characteristics in treating this. Now...hopefully not too many bad characteristics.
And it's free for now!
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-04/gilead-to-donate-experimental-coronavirus-drug-for-140-000-cases
Don't get me wrong - it was already in clinical trials - and if GIlead can get it approved faster - they have everything to gain. But hey - if it helps a few (or a bunch) of people in these trials - for free - great!
And don't tell the WHO haters that they've been on this since January -
Has the White House talked about this one?
-
Has the White House talked about this one?
Yes. I remember cause Trump mispronounced it once and i remember Fauci fielding questions about it two different times
-
For sure - although in the same breath as his favorite:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/03/19/trump-touts-chloroquine-remdesevir-possible-coronavirus-treatments/2875965001/
-
For sure - although in the same breath as his favorite:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/03/19/trump-touts-chloroquine-remdesevir-possible-coronavirus-treatments/2875965001/
So of the two drug he touted as promising, one may prove to be a game changer. This is a bad thing?
-
So of the two drug he touted as promising, one may prove to be a game changer. This is a bad thing?
I guess I just assumed one this promising would be pushed as much as others
-
So of the two drug he touted as promising, one may prove to be a game changer. This is a bad thing?
Mentioning remdesivir, as well as other potential drugs, not horrible. I was actually just answering the question in a factual way.
Now, one could also argue the droning on about Hydroxychloroquinine was potentially dangerous. Could also say politicians shouldn't make medical recommendations. But that's a whole different story.
-
remdesivir has been mentioned a few (bunch of...) times - and seems like it may have some good characteristics in treating this. Now...hopefully not too many bad characteristics.
Doing more reading, I think there's irrational exuberance about remdesivir right now. These results were leaked, and even Gilead is cautioning about reading too much into them.
Another article a couple days ago.
https://www.biospace.com/article/data-from-gilead-s-compassionate-use-of-remdesivir-for-covid-19-looks-promising/
Significant side effects:
about 25% of patients receiving it have severe side effects, including multiple-organ dysfunction syndrome, septic shock, acute kidney injury and low blood pressure. Another 23% demonstrated evidence of liver damage on lab tests.
Yikes.
-
So of the two drug he touted as promising, one may prove to be a game changer. This is a bad thing?
Personally I think both instances are, yes. The doctors should lead the promotion of a therapy.
However if the docs are recommending and the president compels the company to license the tech immediately in the US or globally to flood the world with supply—full speed ahead. Or if the president wants the govt to prioritize more covid therapies, he can take all the credit in the world.
-
So of the two drug he touted as promising, one may prove to be a game changer. This is a bad thing?
One he has mentioned, one he has continually touted (after he saw Oz talk about it on Fox as a wonder drug).
-
Interesting to hear a doctor on the radio this morning, basically saying he sees people dying in his hospital, and there is no known treatment of Cornoavirus and Hydroxychloroquinine has been around 60 years and may work so it's worth a shot to give to patients with no other options.
Didn't know enough about remdesivir, but said the same thing.
-
remdesivir has been mentioned a few (bunch of...) times - and seems like it may have some good characteristics in treating this. Now...hopefully not too many bad characteristics.
And it's free for now!
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-04/gilead-to-donate-experimental-coronavirus-drug-for-140-000-cases
Don't get me wrong - it was already in clinical trials - and if GIlead can get it approved faster - they have everything to gain. But hey - if it helps a few (or a bunch) of people in these trials - for free - great!
And don't tell the WHO haters that they've been on this since January -
Thanks for sharing... Smacks of an ingenious nontraditional advertising campaign to me, but it's absolutely worth considering anyway. I have concerns about any company looking to corner/consolidate the market with a new drug in short order, especially in this environment. My assumption is that the real sales pitch isn't going to be to individuals, at all, & that giving out some free doses is likely just a "free 14 day trial" for the feds.
There is little incentive for a boatload of $ to be spent on researching drugs that have already been around forever, and IMO we'd be better off focusing on that. It's less of a risk, & cheaper.
-
Interesting to hear a doctor on the radio this morning, basically saying he sees people dying in his hospital, and there is no known treatment of Cornoavirus and Hydroxychloroquinine has been around 60 years and may work so it's worth a shot to give to patients with no other options.
Didn't know enough about remdesivir, but said the same thing.
To me, the big difference is there was no biochemical reason hydroxychloroquine should work (as I mentioned before, it wouldn't be the first time something worked and we didn't know why). That coupled with the fact that the initial trial results were weak at best was a warning sign.
There are biochemical reasons why remdesivir may be a good option. There are reasons why plasma may be a good option. The initial results were as or more promising for these.
They should have been being pushed as hard, or harder. They weren't. Instead we couldn't go 2-minutes without the president, or his media, touting it as a miracle cure, despite study after study showing it didn't work. Governors were attacked for not being aggressive enough using this treatment, or for not going out and buying millions of doses.
Shows great incompetence and malfeasance.
No one ever said don't try hydroxychloroquine. It was the exuberance that was grossly inappropriate. 11 died in a trial in Brazil, that likely would have never been given such dosages if it wasn't for our president pushing this so hard.
-
Doing more reading, I think there's irrational exuberance about remdesivir right now. These results were leaked, and even Gilead is cautioning about reading too much into them.
Another article a couple days ago.
https://www.biospace.com/article/data-from-gilead-s-compassionate-use-of-remdesivir-for-covid-19-looks-promising/
Significant side effects:
Yikes.
Not great - but initial results so far bring mortality rates down for people already on ventilators to something like 20%. Which is a HUGE improvement.
-
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/17/drug-makes-coronavirus-cure-trump-193174
This outlines the basis for one of my fears with how everything is proceeding. The leaked data on Remdesivir was quite odd in how things are usually done, especially given that the full results from this trial will be ready soon.
We see the same thing with unapproved tests (antibody or rapid tests) being used and press releases being put out with sensational headlines before FDA approval or validation.
I fear, this is all to create press, and create community pressure that they need these drugs/tests, pressuring the FDA to approve things that may never be approved otherwise. Essentially, creating such a positive story publicly, before the problems can be observed. That would not be good for the population or treatment of the disease. Essentially taking Trumps hydroxychloroquine sensationalism and commercializing it.
The Remdesivir results showed promise, but the leak left out all the harmful side effects (e.g. apparent organ damage). My fear is they know under typical scenarios, the risks may block actual approval, but they can selectively leak results to drive pressure to get things approved anyway.
Hopefully Remdesivir is a magic bullet, but right now the model of how to manipulate public opinion and push things through the FDA is known. People will take advantage of that.
-
"Microsoft is launching a ‘plasmabot’ to encourage people who recovered from the virus to donate their plasma as a possible treatment"
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/18/microsoft-plasmabot-encourages-covid-19-survivors-to-donate-plasma.html
-
Interesting discussion of pneumonia onset. A potential way to screen for this much earlier to improve outcome.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html)
-
Interesting discussion of pneumonia onset. A potential way to screen for this much earlier to improve outcome.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html)
It would be nice if these articles would give some guidance on O2 sat levels that should be cause for concern.
-
Another drug being tested.
Alexion testing blood disease drug for coronavirus treatment
By Luther Turmelle
Boston-based Alexion Pharmaceuticals, which has research and development operations in New Haven, has announced plans to launch a large-scale clinical study to determine whether one of the drugs the company already has approved by the federal Food and Drug Administration can be used to treat COVID-19.
Megan Goulart, a company spokeswoman, said Monday that Alexion officials already have approval to begin a Phase 3 study of Ultomiris to treat COVID-19. The study will begin next month and is expected to enroll about 270 patients across countries with high numbers of diagnosed cases, according to Goulart.
The study will focus on individuals with COVID-19 who are hospitalized with severe pneumonia or acute respiratory distress syndrome, company officials said. Ultomiris will be evaluated on survival rate, duration of mechanical ventilation, and hospital stay compared to best supportive care.
Phase 3 is the last step in the drug development process before FDA officials evaluate a drug candidate for commercial use.
Ultomiris was approved by the FDA in late 2018 for use in the treatment of adult patients with paroxysmal nocturnal hemoglobinuria, which is a rare, acquired, life-threatening disease of the blood. It is characterized by destruction of red blood cells, increased incidents of clots and impaired bone marrow function.
Dr. John Orloff, executive vice president and head of research and development at Alexion, said that “based on early anecdotal information available from compassionate use cases in multiple countries, we are launching a controlled clinical trial to evaluate the potential of Ultomiris in mitigating the severe pneumonia and lung injury caused by the virus.”
Ultomiris, with its weight-based dosing, is a good fit to treat COVID-19, according to company officials, who said it can reduce the burden on hospital systems. The drug requires less frequent dosing and can be manufactured at a higher capacity, providing the opportunity to better meet future supply demands.
Alexion also has launched efforts in the United States to evaluate another one of the company’s FDA-approved drugs, Soliris, for severe cases of COVID-19-related pneumonia. The company’s emergency Expanded Access Programs, also known as compassionate use programs, provide expanded access and a potential pathway for a patient with an immediately life-threatening condition to gain access to an investigational medical product, according to the FDA.
All requests for a hospital to be included in the expanded acccess programs must be made by a treating physician and can be submitted to the company.
luther.turmelle@hearstmediact.com
-
Apologies if already posted.
https://apnews.com/a5077c7227b8eb8b0dc23423c0bbe2b2
"A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported"
-
Apologies if already posted.
https://apnews.com/a5077c7227b8eb8b0dc23423c0bbe2b2
"A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported"
-
Apologies if already posted.
https://apnews.com/a5077c7227b8eb8b0dc23423c0bbe2b2
"A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported"
But... but rocket brain and the orangutan said it was the answer.
-
Jockey - In my opinion there is no need for this.
-
But... but rocket brain and the orangutan said it was the answer.
Not a great look here for you
-
Head of vaccine agency says he was ousted for resisting hydroxychloroquine
https://www.axios.com/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-vaccine-doctor-02f1430c-6c44-43fc-abab-56f2716c6d5a.html
Rick Bright, former director of the U.S. Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, said in a statement Wednesday that he believes he was removed from his role this week after clashing with HHS leadership over his attempts to limit the use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine to treat the coronavirus. The news was first reported by the New York Times.
“I believe this transfer was in response to my insistence that the government invest the billions of dollars allocated by Congress to address the Covid-19 pandemic into safe and scientifically vetted solutions, and not in drugs, vaccines and other technologies that lack scientific merit. I am speaking out because to combat this deadly virus, science — not politics or cronyism — has to lead the way. …
"My professional background has prepared me for a moment like this — to confront and defeat a deadly virus that threatens Americans and people around the globe. To this point, I have led the government’s efforts to invest in the best science available to combat the Covid-19 pandemic.
"Unfortunately, this resulted in clashes with H.H.S. political leadership, including criticism for my proactive efforts to invest early into vaccines and supplies critical to saving American lives. I also resisted efforts to fund potentially dangerous drugs promoted by those with political connections.
"Specifically, and contrary to misguided directives, I limited the broad use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, promoted by the administration as a panacea, but which clearly lack scientific merit.
"While I am prepared to look at all options and to think ‘outside the box’ for effective treatments, I rightly resisted efforts to provide an unproven drug on demand to the American public. I insisted that these drugs be provided only to hospitalized patients with confirmed Covid-19 while under the supervision of a physician.
"These drugs have potentially serious risks associated with them, including increased mortality observed in some recent studies in patients with Covid-19.
"Sidelining me in the middle of this pandemic and placing politics and cronyism ahead of science puts lives at risk and stunts national efforts to safely and effectively address this urgent public health crisis.
"I will request that the inspector general of the Department of Health and Human Services investigate the manner in which this administration has politicized the work of BARDA and has pressured me and other conscientious scientists to fund companies with political connections and efforts that lack scientific merit.
"Rushing blindly towards unproven drugs can be disastrous and result in countless more deaths. Science, in service to the health and safety of the American people, must always trump politics.”
-
I appreciate his delicate subtlety.
-
This is great--SD Governor Noem is going to do a clinical trial of HCQ. And who is going to run the trial, you ask? Why, the health care company that was her largest campaign contributor.
Noem Taps Top Career Donor to Conduct Statewide Hydroxychloroquine Study
https://readsludge.com/2020/04/17/noem-taps-top-career-donor-to-conduct-statewide-hydroxychloroquine-study/
-
Head of vaccine agency says he was ousted for resisting hydroxychloroquine
https://www.axios.com/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-vaccine-doctor-02f1430c-6c44-43fc-abab-56f2716c6d5a.html
Rick Bright, former director of the U.S. Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, said in a statement Wednesday that he believes he was removed from his role this week after clashing with HHS leadership over his attempts to limit the use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine to treat the coronavirus. The news was first reported by the New York Times.
“I believe this transfer was in response to my insistence that the government invest the billions of dollars allocated by Congress to address the Covid-19 pandemic into safe and scientifically vetted solutions, and not in drugs, vaccines and other technologies that lack scientific merit. I am speaking out because to combat this deadly virus, science — not politics or cronyism — has to lead the way. …
"My professional background has prepared me for a moment like this — to confront and defeat a deadly virus that threatens Americans and people around the globe. To this point, I have led the government’s efforts to invest in the best science available to combat the Covid-19 pandemic.
"Unfortunately, this resulted in clashes with H.H.S. political leadership, including criticism for my proactive efforts to invest early into vaccines and supplies critical to saving American lives. I also resisted efforts to fund potentially dangerous drugs promoted by those with political connections.
"Specifically, and contrary to misguided directives, I limited the broad use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, promoted by the administration as a panacea, but which clearly lack scientific merit.
"While I am prepared to look at all options and to think ‘outside the box’ for effective treatments, I rightly resisted efforts to provide an unproven drug on demand to the American public. I insisted that these drugs be provided only to hospitalized patients with confirmed Covid-19 while under the supervision of a physician.
"These drugs have potentially serious risks associated with them, including increased mortality observed in some recent studies in patients with Covid-19.
"Sidelining me in the middle of this pandemic and placing politics and cronyism ahead of science puts lives at risk and stunts national efforts to safely and effectively address this urgent public health crisis.
"I will request that the inspector general of the Department of Health and Human Services investigate the manner in which this administration has politicized the work of BARDA and has pressured me and other conscientious scientists to fund companies with political connections and efforts that lack scientific merit.
"Rushing blindly towards unproven drugs can be disastrous and result in countless more deaths. Science, in service to the health and safety of the American people, must always trump politics.”
Really they aren't even trying to be subtle about this cronyism any longer. And it's costing people lives.
-
Head of vaccine agency says he was ousted for resisting hydroxychloroquine
https://www.axios.com/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-vaccine-doctor-02f1430c-6c44-43fc-abab-56f2716c6d5a.html
Rick Bright, former director of the U.S. Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, said in a statement Wednesday that he believes he was removed from his role this week after clashing with HHS leadership over his attempts to limit the use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine to treat the coronavirus. The news was first reported by the New York Times.
“I believe this transfer was in response to my insistence that the government invest the billions of dollars allocated by Congress to address the Covid-19 pandemic into safe and scientifically vetted solutions, and not in drugs, vaccines and other technologies that lack scientific merit. I am speaking out because to combat this deadly virus, science — not politics or cronyism — has to lead the way. …
"My professional background has prepared me for a moment like this — to confront and defeat a deadly virus that threatens Americans and people around the globe. To this point, I have led the government’s efforts to invest in the best science available to combat the Covid-19 pandemic.
"Unfortunately, this resulted in clashes with H.H.S. political leadership, including criticism for my proactive efforts to invest early into vaccines and supplies critical to saving American lives. I also resisted efforts to fund potentially dangerous drugs promoted by those with political connections.
"Specifically, and contrary to misguided directives, I limited the broad use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, promoted by the administration as a panacea, but which clearly lack scientific merit.
"While I am prepared to look at all options and to think ‘outside the box’ for effective treatments, I rightly resisted efforts to provide an unproven drug on demand to the American public. I insisted that these drugs be provided only to hospitalized patients with confirmed Covid-19 while under the supervision of a physician.
"These drugs have potentially serious risks associated with them, including increased mortality observed in some recent studies in patients with Covid-19.
"Sidelining me in the middle of this pandemic and placing politics and cronyism ahead of science puts lives at risk and stunts national efforts to safely and effectively address this urgent public health crisis.
"I will request that the inspector general of the Department of Health and Human Services investigate the manner in which this administration has politicized the work of BARDA and has pressured me and other conscientious scientists to fund companies with political connections and efforts that lack scientific merit.
"Rushing blindly towards unproven drugs can be disastrous and result in countless more deaths. Science, in service to the health and safety of the American people, must always trump politics.”
Something doesn’t add up here. He was the one who submitted for approval for the use of this under the emergency use act.
-
Head of vaccine agency says he was ousted for resisting hydroxychloroquine
https://www.axios.com/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-vaccine-doctor-02f1430c-6c44-43fc-abab-56f2716c6d5a.html
Rick Bright, former director of the U.S. Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, said in a statement Wednesday that he believes he was removed from his role this week after clashing with HHS leadership over his attempts to limit the use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine to treat the coronavirus. The news was first reported by the New York Times.
“I believe this transfer was in response to my insistence that the government invest the billions of dollars allocated by Congress to address the Covid-19 pandemic into safe and scientifically vetted solutions, and not in drugs, vaccines and other technologies that lack scientific merit. I am speaking out because to combat this deadly virus, science — not politics or cronyism — has to lead the way. …
"My professional background has prepared me for a moment like this — to confront and defeat a deadly virus that threatens Americans and people around the globe. To this point, I have led the government’s efforts to invest in the best science available to combat the Covid-19 pandemic.
"Unfortunately, this resulted in clashes with H.H.S. political leadership, including criticism for my proactive efforts to invest early into vaccines and supplies critical to saving American lives. I also resisted efforts to fund potentially dangerous drugs promoted by those with political connections.
"Specifically, and contrary to misguided directives, I limited the broad use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, promoted by the administration as a panacea, but which clearly lack scientific merit.
"While I am prepared to look at all options and to think ‘outside the box’ for effective treatments, I rightly resisted efforts to provide an unproven drug on demand to the American public. I insisted that these drugs be provided only to hospitalized patients with confirmed Covid-19 while under the supervision of a physician.
"These drugs have potentially serious risks associated with them, including increased mortality observed in some recent studies in patients with Covid-19.
"Sidelining me in the middle of this pandemic and placing politics and cronyism ahead of science puts lives at risk and stunts national efforts to safely and effectively address this urgent public health crisis.
"I will request that the inspector general of the Department of Health and Human Services investigate the manner in which this administration has politicized the work of BARDA and has pressured me and other conscientious scientists to fund companies with political connections and efforts that lack scientific merit.
"Rushing blindly towards unproven drugs can be disastrous and result in countless more deaths. Science, in service to the health and safety of the American people, must always trump politics.”
I’d wait a bit on buying this hook, line and sinker. Sounds like the administration had targeted this guy to be removed long ago and that he was a supporter of the use of hydroxycloroquine. I’d wait for the IG report before we call this guy a victim - though I know that may be too much too ask of some.
-
I’d wait a bit on buying this hook, line and sinker. Sounds like the administration had targeted this guy to be removed long ago and that he was a supporter of the use of hydroxycloroquine. I’d wait for the IG report before we call this guy a victim - though I know that may be too much too ask of some.
After reading into this a bit I think you nailed it. Looks like another example of half truths and media spin that once it gets vetted out turns into something entirely different.
Also you want to talk about having blood on your hands, how bout New York’s nursing home policy when it came to residents testing positive for Covid. Had to have a gigantic role in the amount of deaths they saw in that population, sad.
-
I’d wait a bit on buying this hook, line and sinker. Sounds like the administration had targeted this guy to be removed long ago and that he was a supporter of the use of hydroxycloroquine. I’d wait for the IG report before we call this guy a victim - though I know that may be too much too ask of some.
Today the president said he had never even heard of this guy, and knew nothing about him being removed. So either he was lying, or the administration wasn't targeting him for awhile.
I have no idea what went on here, but if it was straight forward, and a planned removal, no need to pretend like you didn't even know the name of the guy running the vaccine programs, including the coronavirus vaccine.
I'd be interested in seeing some of the links people (I realized it wasn't you) are referring to where they imply he is making all of this up.
-
Something doesn’t add up here. He was the one who submitted for approval for the use of this under the emergency use act.
I think if you read his statement there are two points:
"While I am prepared to look at all options and to think ‘outside the box’ for effective treatments, I rightly resisted efforts to provide an unproven drug on demand to the American public. I insisted that these drugs be provided only to hospitalized patients with confirmed COVID-19 while under the supervision of a physician.
"I will request that the inspector general of the Department of Health and Human Services investigate the manner in which this administration has politicized the work of BARDA and has pressured me and other conscientious scientists to fund companies with political connections and efforts that lack scientific merit."
-
After reading into this a bit I think you nailed it. Looks like another example of half truths and media spin that once it gets vetted out turns into something entirely different.
Can you point out in the article what the half truths and media spin are?
Also you want to talk about having blood on your hands, how bout New York’s nursing home policy when it came to residents testing positive for Covid. Had to have a gigantic role in the amount of deaths they saw in that population, sad.
This is some super strength whataboutism. I mean, how is NY's testing even remotely related to this?
-
After reading into this a bit I think you nailed it. Looks like another example of half truths and media spin that once it gets vetted out turns into something entirely different.
It's not. You're not reading it right.
-
I’d wait a bit on buying this hook, line and sinker. Sounds like the administration had targeted this guy to be removed long ago and that he was a supporter of the use of hydroxycloroquine. I’d wait for the IG report before we call this guy a victim - though I know that may be too much too ask of some.
He was a supporter of it IF it was proven to actually work. So he wanted to pump the brakes on its use until it could be shown to work.
-
The biggest cheerleaders for Hydroxychloroquine have all but stopped talking about the game-changing miracle cure.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/business/media/virus-fox-news-hydroxychloroquine.html?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20200423&instance_id=17879&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer®i_id=108420427&segment_id=25793&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
-
Welp, this does not appear to be good news:
New data on Gilead’s remdesivir, released by accident, show no benefit for coronavirus patients. Company still sees reason for hope
https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/23/data-on-gileads-remdesivir-released-by-accident-show-no-benefit-for-coronavirus-patients/
"The antiviral medicine remdesivir from Gilead Sciences failed to speed the improvement of patients with Covid-19 or prevent them from dying, according to results from a long-awaited clinical trial conducted in China. Gilead, however, said the data suggest a “potential benefit.”
"A summary of the study results was inadvertently posted to the website of the World Health Organization and seen by STAT on Thursday, but then removed.
“A draft document was provided by the authors to WHO and inadvertently posted on the website and taken down as soon as the mistake was noticed. The manuscript is undergoing peer review and we are waiting for a final version before WHO comments,” said WHO spokesperson Tarik Jasarevic.
"Gilead spokesperson Amy Flood said the company believes “the post included inappropriate characterization of the study.” Because the study was stopped early because it had too few patients, she said, it cannot “enable statistically meaningful conclusions.” However, she said, “trends in the data suggest a potential benefit for remdesivir, particularly among patients treated early in disease.”
-
The biggest cheerleaders for Hydroxychloroquine have all but stopped talking about the game-changing miracle cure.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/business/media/virus-fox-news-hydroxychloroquine.html?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20200423&instance_id=17879&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer®i_id=108420427&segment_id=25793&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
The village idiot on Scoop has stopped talking about it every day, too.
-
The village idiot on Scoop has stopped talking about it every day, too.
Seriously stop with this. No place here for that.
-
The village idiot on Scoop has stopped talking about it every day, too.
I agree with Sultan. Unnecessary attack, brand. Be better.
-
Referencing warriordad from another thread... Rooting for this to fail? No. Skeptical? Yes. Think it is foolish to hype the crap out of an unproven treatment? Absolutely.
-
Referencing warriordad from another thread... Rooting for this to fail? No. Skeptical? Yes. Think it is foolish to hype the crap out of an unproven treatment? Absolutely.
There was another poster who used to accuse people about rooting for Marquette to fail. Who was that?
-
I agree with Sultan. Unnecessary attack, brand. Be better.
I agree and I apologize for the unnecessary dig.
-
There was another poster who used to accuse people about rooting for Marquette to fail. Who was that?
Hmmmm....
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=58654.msg1130572#msg1130572
I wonder where I have seen similar "logic" before?
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=58686.msg1128422#msg1128422
-
Referencing warriordad from another thread... Rooting for this to fail? No. Skeptical? Yes. Think it is foolish to hype the crap out of an unproven treatment? Absolutely.
Some are rooting for it to fail, they have admitted as such. Unfortunate times we live in, but there are people that want policies or approaches to fail to be proven correct. This is nothing new, has been going on for hundreds of years. Name a political policy and the numbers opposing it and hoping it fails so their policy is chosen is how people think. That remains true with some of the approaches of the coronavirus in my opinion.
-
There was another poster who used to accuse people about rooting for Marquette to fail. Who was that?
I remember reading a handful members here that wanted Wojo to fail if it meant moving on to another coach. Probably not hard to find if so inclined to read old messages here.
-
Remdesivir also not living up to hype.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/23/data-on-gileads-remdesivir-released-by-accident-show-no-benefit-for-coronavirus-patients/
-
Can you point out in the article what the half truths and media spin are?
This is some super strength whataboutism. I mean, how is NY's testing even remotely related to this?
The spin and half truths (my opinion) is that the article try’s to frame the firing solely on the guy’s hesitancy to using hydroxy. If you read into it a bit more sounds like he has a long led history of insubordination and adversarial relationships with colleagues. Not saying his opposition to hydroxyl had no role in his dismissal but doesn’t seem to be painting the full picture with this one article from the media. Therefore I consider it spin and half true, you good with that?
-
Can you point out in the article what the half truths and media spin are?
This is some super strength whataboutism. I mean, how is NY's testing even remotely related to this?
It has nothing to do about NY testing. I was refereeing to the policy of when a nursing home resident tested positive for Covid they were sent right back into the nursing home to live amongst their peers who just so happened to be the highest risk population. Nowhere did I mention anything to do with testing.
-
Some are rooting for it to fail, they have admitted as such. Unfortunate times we live in, but there are people that want policies or approaches to fail to be proven correct. This is nothing new, has been going on for hundreds of years. Name a political policy and the numbers opposing it and hoping it fails so their policy is chosen is how people think. That remains true with some of the approaches of the coronavirus in my opinion.
Where did anyone root for it to fail?
-
Think about the source. Nobody here, but possibly 5 people on the planet, so 'some'.
-
Where did anyone root for it to fail?
You know, the one French journalist that chicos found that said "sort of hoping" they fail. It's chicos False Equivalency 101.
-
I could be wrong but did the POTUS just advise us to drink detergent?
"The disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. It gets in the lungs"
-
Think about the source. Nobody here, but possibly 5 people on the planet, so 'some'.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Of course there are "some". Probably less than the # of folks that believe the earth is flat though - so they've got that going for them!
-
I could be wrong but did the POTUS just advise us to drink detergent?
"The disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. It gets in the lungs"
LOL. As seen online:
"I can't believe that I can even type this message and it's all fact. The POTUS, in 2020, just suggested that the government's experts are going to look into injecting people with disinfectants as a treatment for an infection."
-
He is right though. If we all start injecting Lysol now, we will not die from Covid-19.*
*stolen
-
I could be wrong but did the POTUS just advise us to drink detergent?
"The disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. It gets in the lungs"
Tide pods challenge making a comeback?
-
Keep your hands off my bleach!
-
I could be wrong but did the POTUS just advise us to drink detergent?
"The disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. It gets in the lungs"
Also wants to try getting "a very powerful light" inside our bodies.
I know the guy is a narcissistic moron, but what the h*ll?
-
Lysol actually had to put out a release today telling people not to injest Lysol.
25th amendment time.
-
Lysol actually had to put out a release today telling people not to injest Lysol.
25th amendment time.
Hopefully the president diversified his big pharma holdings so we can hear about a different drug that won’t work.
-
I’m with you Jockey. No fan of Pence, but it’s long past time.
-
Invested in this company 4 weeks ago...MESO...some great news
https://www.businessnewsaus.com.au/articles/mesoblast-treatment-achieves--remarkable--results-for-critical-covid-19-patients.html
-
Hope it works.
Going after the symptoms that kill. So, not stopping the virus, per se, but keeping the symptoms from being fatal.
-
I’m with you Jockey. No fan of Pence, but it’s long past time.
I hate Pence, but yes he would be 1000 times better and would probably do a decent job working with states both on the reaction to the virus now and a plan for opening the economy.
-
Pence is a traditional conservative politician. Not a fan either, but I believe he could manage a national response better. Has already done work with the governors.
-
Hopefully the president diversified his big pharma holdings so we can hear about a different drug that won’t work.
(https://scontent.fmia1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94492316_10109251115876478_2814604468362936320_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=1xv56cCQTwEAX_JwoZm&_nc_ht=scontent.fmia1-1.fna&oh=09ae175951faebbc50dbb310cf5897b4&oe=5EC72013)
-
Somewhere out there is a Trump voter who is going to take Lysol's statements as proof of a conspiracy to undermine the POTUS and is going to take some to 'own the Libs'.
Or, to use a chico-ism, 'some'.
-
Breaking this morning: FDA issues warnings on chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine after ‘serious poisoning and death’ reported
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/24/fda-issues-warnings-on-chloroquine-and-hydroxychloroquine-after-serious-poisoning-and-death-reported.html
-
I hate Pence
Sad
-
Breaking this morning: FDA issues warnings on chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine after ‘serious poisoning and death’ reported
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/24/fda-issues-warnings-on-chloroquine-and-hydroxychloroquine-after-serious-poisoning-and-death-reported.html
Who could ever have predicted that listening to babbling talk show hosts, non-doctor stable geniuses, billionaire donors, and "healthcare professionals" would lead to bad outcomes? What have you got to lose?
-
Somewhere out there is a Trump voter who is going to take Lysol's statements as proof of a conspiracy to undermine the POTUS and is going to take some to 'own the Libs'.
https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1242899581924446212?s=20
It took one day less than a month.
-
Lots of messaging from cleaning companies today that people shouldn't ingest their products.
*Facepalm*
-
Ive actually watched the faces of the doctors at the press conferences early on to get a sense of how bad of a situation we are in. The news picked up this one and Dr Birx’s reaction should frighten everyone.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d57zJr82dhQ (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d57zJr82dhQ)
-
Ive actually watched the faces of the doctors at the press conferences early on to get a sense of how bad of a situation we are in. The news picked up this one and Dr Birx’s reaction should frighten everyone.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d57zJr82dhQ (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d57zJr82dhQ)
I am excited to see the book deals that come out of this situation. These poor scientists having to watch that man go up there and just shoot from the hip about things he cannot begin to understand... I do not envy their position, but I'm thankful they are there.
-
Good news:
https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1253726184866811906?s=19
-
Sad
You did notice that I complimented the job I thought he would do? But pick & choose.
I just think he is a religious nut / hypocrite.
-
Good news:
https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1253726184866811906?s=19
That's one of their go-to moves, claiming that they were kidding or being sarcastic when they are caught being stupid or outrageous. The gaslighting only works on true believers.
Speaking of which (shamelessly stolen from the interwebs), Trump has finally reached the point with his Jonestown cult that he is suggesting drinking poison.
-
Breaking this morning: FDA issues warnings on chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine after ‘serious poisoning and death’ reported
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/24/fda-issues-warnings-on-chloroquine-and-hydroxychloroquine-after-serious-poisoning-and-death-reported.html
What Doctor would prescribe this drug and put a patient in danger?
-
What Doctor would prescribe this drug and put a patient in danger?
Dr. Trump (over and over again)
-
That's one of their go-to moves, claiming that they were kidding or being sarcastic when they are caught being stupid or outrageous. The gaslighting only works on true believers.
Speaking of which (shamelessly stolen from the interwebs), Trump has finally reached the point with his Jonestown cult that he is suggesting drinking poison.
He wasn't even talking to reporters. He was talking to Birx, and the look on her face was precious. She couldn't believe how stoopid he sounded, barely even looked up from the floor.
But hey ... maybe it was just locker-room talk.
-
just locker-room talk.
man that seems like 100 years ago. In a rational society the "grab em by the p----" would have ended it before it began.
-
He wasn't even talking to reporters. He was talking to Birx, and the look on her face was precious.
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/Y2sOWtHdMibOKeZBFw/200.gif)
-
You did notice that I complimented the job I thought he would do? But pick & choose.
I just think he is a religious nut / hypocrite.
???
So if I said I thought you weren’t as insane as (fill in the blank) but that I hated you you would consider that a neutral, even handed assessment?
Too much hate on this board, Jockey. And you’re the biggest peddler.
Cura Personalis
-
???
So if I said I thought you weren’t as insane as (fill in the blank) but that I hated you you would consider that a neutral, even handed assessment?
Too much hate on this board, Jockey. And you’re the biggest peddler.
Cura Personalis
I should have been more specific and said I hated his politics. But you knew that is what I meant.
I enjoyed your rant, though.
-
He wasn't even talking to reporters. He was talking to Birx, and the look on her face was precious. She couldn't believe how stoopid he sounded, barely even looked up from the floor.
But hey ... maybe it was just locker-room talk.
Even a couple of Fox people called out his bullcrap.
“Wow. That is a little unsettling, folks,” [Neil] Cavuto said on Friday. “Got to clarify this. The president was not joking in his remarks yesterday when he talked about injecting people with disinfectant, nor were we imagining the incredulous looks he got from his medical team when he made the suggestion.”
Cavuto gave a refresher of the comments Trump made during his Thursday coronavirus press briefing, reminding viewers that the president suggested that injecting disinfectant showed “great promise” for a coronavirus treatment. Trump later clarified that because disinfectants kill the coronavirus on surfaces, experts should test it as a way to clean inside the lungs.
“There was nothing in those comments yesterday that hinted of the dismissal he was giving today,” Cavuto remarked. “He is talking about injecting products like Lysol into your body to see if that can combat the disease. That is what he said.”
-
Like a cleansing vape cartridge. Wonder how those that had lung damage from vaping are weathering the storm.
-
Even a couple of Fox people called out his bullcrap.
“Wow. That is a little unsettling, folks,” [Neil] Cavuto said on Friday. “Got to clarify this. The president was not joking in his remarks yesterday when he talked about injecting people with disinfectant, nor were we imagining the incredulous looks he got from his medical team when he made the suggestion.”
Cavuto gave a refresher of the comments Trump made during his Thursday coronavirus press briefing, reminding viewers that the president suggested that injecting disinfectant showed “great promise” for a coronavirus treatment. Trump later clarified that because disinfectants kill the coronavirus on surfaces, experts should test it as a way to clean inside the lungs.
“There was nothing in those comments yesterday that hinted of the dismissal he was giving today,” Cavuto remarked. “He is talking about injecting products like Lysol into your body to see if that can combat the disease. That is what he said.”
When a Foxy calls a Trump remark or action "a little unsettling," that's the equivalent of "bat-shyte crazy!" to most of society.
-
Words matter:
https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-new-yorkers-household-cleaners-trump-20200425-rnaqio5dyfeaxmthxx2vktqa5m-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true
-
Sad
What’s sad is why anyone defends this turd of a POTUS.
-
Can you point out in the article what the half truths and media spin are?
This is some super strength whataboutism. I mean, how is NY's testing even remotely related to this?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1191811?__twitter_impression=true
-
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1191811?__twitter_impression=true
And am sure there won’t be a lick of coverage on the Sunday shows this morning. But they will talk breathlessly about how irresponsible GA, FL, blah blah blah are.
-
And am sure there won’t be a lick of coverage on the Sunday shows this morning. But they will talk breathlessly about how irresponsible GA, FL, blah blah blah are.
It was mentioned on the CBS evening news last night.
And please stick to the topics.
-
It was mentioned on the CBS evening news last night.
And please stick to the topics.
Yes sir!
-
Evidently having heartburn may help.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/new-york-clinical-trial-quietly-tests-heartburn-remedy-against-coronavirus
New York clinical trial quietly tests heartburn remedy against coronavirus
-
Evidently having heartburn may help.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/new-york-clinical-trial-quietly-tests-heartburn-remedy-against-coronavirus
New York clinical trial quietly tests heartburn remedy against coronavirus
I get heartburn if I drink too much whiskey. If I must...
-
Why is the government preventing this cure? And they are attacking religion at the same time! Florida man saving the world! ;D
Feds go after self-described church in Florida selling bleaching agent as cure for COVID-19
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-church-coronavirus-bleaching-agent-cure-covid-19/
-
Why is the government preventing this cure? And they are attacking religion at the same time! Florida man saving the world! ;D
Feds go after self-described church in Florida selling bleaching agent as cure for COVID-19
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-church-coronavirus-bleaching-agent-cure-covid-19/
'Some people say'....
-
Why is the government preventing this cure? And they are attacking religion at the same time! Florida man saving the world! ;D
Feds go after self-described church in Florida selling bleaching agent as cure for COVID-19
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-church-coronavirus-bleaching-agent-cure-covid-19/
Well, now at least we know where President Lysol Injector got the idea.
-
Why is the government preventing this cure? And they are attacking religion at the same time! Florida man saving the world! ;D
Feds go after self-described church in Florida selling bleaching agent as cure for COVID-19
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-church-coronavirus-bleaching-agent-cure-covid-19/
Totally unfair! That man deserves a Noble Prize. Or at the very least a nice hamberger.
-
Evidently having heartburn may help.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/new-york-clinical-trial-quietly-tests-heartburn-remedy-against-coronavirus
New York clinical trial quietly tests heartburn remedy against coronavirus
Nuts. I'm a Prevacid man myself.
-
This is more about the process to treatment and reopening. It was an interesting read for those with the Wall Street Journal.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-secret-group-of-scientists-and-billionaires-pushing-trump-on-a-covid-19-plan-11587998993 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-secret-group-of-scientists-and-billionaires-pushing-trump-on-a-covid-19-plan-11587998993)
-
This is more about the process to treatment and reopening. It was an interesting read for those with the Wall Street Journal.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-secret-group-of-scientists-and-billionaires-pushing-trump-on-a-covid-19-plan-11587998993 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-secret-group-of-scientists-and-billionaires-pushing-trump-on-a-covid-19-plan-11587998993)
Yes, this article is true.
Annoying that in the article they refer to the scientists as Mr, including Nobel prize winners.
-
Yes, this article is true.
Annoying that in the article they refer to the scientists as Mr, including Nobel prize winners.
Maybe they did it because some people don't trust scientists. ;D
-
Yes, this article is true.
Annoying that in the article they refer to the scientists as Mr, including Nobel prize winners.
Oh, the humanity. ::)
-
Noble prize winners.
-
This is more about the process to treatment and reopening. It was an interesting read for those with the Wall Street Journal.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-secret-group-of-scientists-and-billionaires-pushing-trump-on-a-covid-19-plan-11587998993 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-secret-group-of-scientists-and-billionaires-pushing-trump-on-a-covid-19-plan-11587998993)
They are hoping to have clinical trials completed in a week rather than a year. A recipe for disaster.
Also they claim they are not political. Hopefully that will be the case, but it’s hard to imagine with some of the people involved.
But I’m willing to give it a chance. Not much else is working and almost anything/ everything is an improvement over the ideas of Trump and Jared.
-
Closely watched arthritis drug disappoints as a Covid-19 treatment, studies show
https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/27/arthritis-drug-kevzara-disappoints-as-coronavirus-treatment/
"Kevzara was not expected to directly block the coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, that is causing a global pandemic. But it was hoped that the drug would help ease the immune system’s overreaction to the virus — a “cytokine storm” that causes inflammation and fluid buildup in the lungs of many of the sickest patients — potentially helping to keep patients off of ventilators or saving their lives. Early data from a 21-patient study in China using Actemra had appeared promising.
"But there was no benefit in the group of patients most like those in that Chinese study: those termed “severe,” meaning they needed oxygen, but not with air pressure that is faster than normal breathing and certainly not those on ventilators. A 276-patient study in this group was stopped because there was no chance it would succeed.
"There is still a glimmer of a positive result in sicker patients, whom the companies call “critical.” These patients need what is called high-flow oxygen, or are on ventilators. In that group, an extra 1 in 10 patients who received high-dose Kevzara was discharged from the hospital compared to those who received placebo. A larger study is continuing in the hopes of proving this benefit.
-
Closely watched arthritis drug disappoints as a Covid-19 treatment, studies show
Do you think it would have worked better if they watched it less closely?
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/15/e6/fd15e69b9ba734679945550817a7a25b.jpg)
-
Oh, the humanity. ::)
It's insulting. One of the "Mr's" won a Nobel prize in medicine. None of the doctors listed in that article can claim anywhere near his credentials.
If they want to differentiate them, call them Prof.
Or as a journalist, ask them what they prefer to be called. The journalist did not do so, and arbitrarily chose to call the professors "Mr.". It is unprofessional to do so.
-
It's insulting. One of the "Mr's" won a Nobel prize in medicine. None of the doctors listed in that article can claim anywhere near his credentials.
If they want to differentiate them, call them Prof.
Or as a journalist, ask them what they prefer to be called. The journalist did not do so, and arbitrarily chose to call the professors "Mr.". It is unprofessional to do so.
I'm confused about what they should be called.
It's AP style to refer to only medical doctors as "Dr."
No newspapers that I'm aware of use "Prof." or "Professor" as a title beyond first reference. It's certainly not AP style to do so. The NYT and WSJ are about major publications these days that still use Mr., Ms., or Mrs.
So really, not only is it not unprofessional, but it's in keeping with the profession's guidelines.
-
It's insulting. One of the "Mr's" won a Nobel prize in medicine. None of the doctors listed in that article can claim anywhere near his credentials.
If they want to differentiate them, call them Prof.
Or as a journalist, ask them what they prefer to be called. The journalist did not do so, and arbitrarily chose to call the professors "Mr.". It is unprofessional to do so.
It has nothing to do with the journalists decision - it's their editorial style. From what I understand, WSJ style no longer uses Dr.. Just Mr. and Ms. depending on their gender.
-
It's my opinion that anyone that gets hung up on their own title needs to get over themselves. That's different than taking exception to intentionally derogatory titles...
It's also my opinion, that a 3rd party getting upset about someone's title is positively a waste of time.
-
It's my opinion that anyone that gets hung up on their own title needs to get over themselves. That's different than taking exception to intentionally derogatory titles...
It's also my opinion, that a 3rd party getting upset about someone's title is positively a waste of time.
Easy for you to say, Dr. Dopey!
-
It's insulting. One of the "Mr's" won a Nobel prize in medicine. None of the doctors listed in that article can claim anywhere near his credentials.
If they want to differentiate them, call them Prof.
Or as a journalist, ask them what they prefer to be called. The journalist did not do so, and arbitrarily chose to call the professors "Mr.". It is unprofessional to do so.
People call Jill Biden "Dr Biden", and Whoopi wants her to be the surgeon general. This helps remove confusion and embarrassment.
-
People call Jill Biden "Dr Biden", and Whoopi wants her to be the surgeon general. This helps remove confusion and embarrassment.
I could be wrong but aren't people with PHDs supposed to be called Dr?
-
I could be wrong but aren't people with PHDs supposed to be called Dr?
Right. But they’re not qualified to be surgeon general.
-
People call Jill Biden "Dr Biden", and Whoopi wants her to be the surgeon general. This helps remove confusion and embarrassment.
You know, its pretty easy to admit the guy is a total idiot, and not defend him with some whataboutism.
-
It's my opinion that anyone that gets hung up on their own title needs to get over themselves. T
Um, that is Lord pbiflyer to you, sir!
Become a Lord or Lady Today!
https://establishedtitles.com
Lordship & Ladyship Title Packs
Purchase a personal Lordship or Ladyship Title Pack with dedicated land in West Scotland
Each pack contains:
One square foot of dedicated land on a private estate in Galloway, Scotland and a printable certificate with a crest,
-
This is a weird thing to fight about.
-
You know, its pretty easy to admit the guy is a total idiot, and not defend him with some whataboutism.
On the subject of whataboutism, what the heck is your post supposed to be about?
-
It's my opinion that anyone that gets hung up on their own title needs to get over themselves. That's different than taking exception to intentionally derogatory titles...
It's also my opinion, that a 3rd party getting upset about someone's title is positively a waste of time.
It is my opinion that your opinion is 100% correct.
-
On the subject of whataboutism, what the heck is your post supposed to be about?
I think hards is calling forgetful an idiot.
-
I was fine just dropping this, but apparently, I'm now being called an "idiot" by others, so here is why this bothers me.
First, I don't care about my own title, I let people call me whatever they wish. It is not important to me. But to most, Mr. is intentionally derogatory, they could have went with a title, like Dr. or Prof. that correctly references their achievements, or they could have used no title at all. Mr. is intentionally disregarding their achievements and is by many, considered intentionally disrespectful, especially when Dr. is used for the MDs.
The reason it is annoying right now is we are in a time period where we need honest discussion about science. What we are getting is every Tom, Dick, and Francis stating "science" proves their stance, and that they are scientists, despite no advanced training in any fields, simply because they have a BS. They are neither accurately reporting the science, or critically evaluating it.
We have medical Dr's, misreporting science, or making scientifically incorrect conclusions, and using their title as "authority." And people following them, because, hey, they are called Dr, despite the fact that they have no training or expertise in the area they are claiming authority in.
We then have people disregarding the expertise of people who have spent their lives studying the exact subject area, that are Dr's and Prof's, in these areas. They are not trusted then, because they are just a "Mr". We are disregarding science left and right, and part of that is we are not placing the scientists in a respected and trusted light.
I know some of the people listed in that article, and they are also irritated by the lack of trust/respect being given to the scientists, and the degree to which their knowledge is being ignored by decision makers in the WH, because of some idea of scientists not being "trustable," or as knowledgable as that coming from MDs or being rich.
The idea that if they were actually smart, they'd be rich like MD's and CEOs, is a large guiding force in decisions right now.
-
I was fine just dropping this, but apparently, I'm now being called an "idiot" by others, so here is why this bothers me.
First, I don't care about my own title, I let people call me whatever they wish. It is not important to me. But to most, Mr. is intentionally derogatory, they could have went with a title, like Dr. or Prof. that correctly references their achievements, or they could have used no title at all. Mr. is intentionally disregarding their achievements and is by many, considered intentionally disrespectful, especially when Dr. is used for the MDs.
The reason it is annoying right now is we are in a time period where we need honest discussion about science. What we are getting is every Tom, Dick, and Francis stating "science" proves their stance, and that they are scientists, despite no advanced training in any fields, simply because they have a BS. They are neither accurately reporting the science, or critically evaluating it.
We have medical Dr's, misreporting science, or making scientifically incorrect conclusions, and using their title as "authority." And people following them, because, hey, they are called Dr, despite the fact that they have no training or expertise in the area they are claiming authority in.
We then have people disregarding the expertise of people who have spent their lives studying the exact subject area, that are Dr's and Prof's, in these areas. They are not trusted then, because they are just a "Mr". We are disregarding science left and right, and part of that is we are not placing the scientists in a respected and trusted light.
I know some of the people listed in that article, and they are also irritated by the lack of trust/respect being given to the scientists, and the degree to which their knowledge is being ignored by decision makers in the WH, because of some idea of scientists not being "trustable," or as knowledgable as that coming from MDs or being rich.
The idea that if they were actually smart, they'd be rich like MD's and CEOs, is a large guiding force in decisions right now.
(https://perikinder.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/rodney.jpg)
-
TBH, the title Doctor means basically nothing. A PhD in Gender Studies from the University of Phoenix, a Chiropractor, and a Neurosurgeon all can legitimately use the title, which means it is already pretty watered down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTtNFEMPktU
-
On the other hand, maybe people who aren't medical doctors shouldn't be called doctors.
Gotta tell you, the word nerd in me is kinda intrigued to see so much of a kerfuffle made out of style guides. You wanna get really wild? Let's start talk about how the New Yorker has its own style guide that calls for putting an umlaut above the second vowel of words with two consecutive of the same vowel. E.g. Coordinated gets to be co -umauted-o-rdinated. Now those people are getting really freaky.
-
I think hards is calling forgetful an idiot.
Nope, I misread the comment that was made. But that was nice of you to misrepresent what I was saying.
Additionally, I believe forgetful is extremely bright.
-
Nope, I misread the comment that was made. But that was nice of you to misrepresent what I was saying.
Additionally, I believe forgetful is extremely bright.
You misread: oops, my bad.
I and others take you at face value: you suck.
Dumbass.
-
On the other hand, maybe people who aren't medical doctors shouldn't be called doctors.
Gotta tell you, the word nerd in me is kinda intrigued to see so much of a kerfuffle made out of style guides. You wanna get really wild? Let's start talk about how the New Yorker has its own style guide that calls for putting an umlaut above the second vowel of words with two consecutive of the same vowel. E.g. Coordinated gets to be co -umauted-o-rdinated. Now those people are getting really freaky.
Since the whole thread has gone off the rails about titles, I'll chime in....
PhDs in many fields at 'real' schools go through extraordinarily rigorous training, so I can understand the rationale for using the title of 'doctor' for a PhD in Psychology from Harvard or a PhD in Microbiology from Stanford. And it doesn't just need to be an Ivy or near-Ivy; plenty of major research universities fall in this category. The problem is that the explosion of for-profit and online schools is making it too easy (IMHO) for anyone with a checkbook and some spare time to get a PhD. For example, there is a place called Breyer State Theological University that offers an "Ethereal Accelerated Doctor of Psychology in Grief Counseling." That is not a typo. The program is completely online, takes 1 year, and costs all of $3,500. And the website includes helpful FAQs that, among other things, tell people how to submit their "previous transcript's." https://breyerstate.com/ethereal-accelerated-doctor-of-psychology-in-grief-counseling/
IMHO, somewhere between those two extremes is a reasonable line defining who really deserves to be called "doctor." I'm just not sure where it lies.
-
In an effort to get this back on the rails. Sorry for the detour.
https://www.livescience.com/covid19-trial-tests-sex-hormone-treatment.html
A trial to see if giving men estrogen can help alleviate the severity of COVID-19. While I think there may be some merit to such a study, uncertain that it can be an effective treatment. Still interesting how people are taking a lot of different approaches to this.
-
In an effort to get this back on the rails. Sorry for the detour.
https://www.livescience.com/covid19-trial-tests-sex-hormone-treatment.html
A trial to see if giving men estrogen can help alleviate the severity of COVID-19. While I think there may be some merit to such a study, uncertain that it can be an effective treatment. Still interesting how people are taking a lot of different approaches to this.
That is interesting. And I think it continues to be absolutely vital that the scientific community (and different nations, frankly) continue to take a lot of different approaches. If everyone does and tries the same things, we might miss things that work. As I've seen said here many times (but Tower, if memory serves), the scientists need to keep sciencing.
-
You misread: oops, my bad.
I and others take you at face value: you suck.
Dumbass.
So sensitive.
-
https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/police-investigating-death-of-arizona-man-from-chloroquine-phosphate/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Turns out poor guy married the wrong person. Media lap dogs rushed to blame trump along with a lot of posters here on how he caused this man’s death but turns out his wife might have poisoned him intentionally.
-
https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/police-investigating-death-of-arizona-man-from-chloroquine-phosphate/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Turns out poor guy married the wrong person. Media lap dogs rushed to blame trump along with a lot of posters here on how he caused this man’s death but turns out his wife might have poisoned him intentionally.
OMstillB
-
https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/police-investigating-death-of-arizona-man-from-chloroquine-phosphate/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Turns out poor guy married the wrong person. Media lap dogs rushed to blame trump along with a lot of posters here on how he caused this man’s death but turns out his wife might have poisoned him intentionally.
My wife and I have a strange love of the TV show "Snapped" (stylized documentary about women killing, typically boyfriends/husbands). This has got all of the markings an upcoming episode.
-
On-again off-again potential of Gilead's remdesivir is on again after positive results from an open-label Phase 3 clinical trial, SIMPLE, evaluating five- and 10-day courses in severely ill hospitalized COVID-19 patients.
https://seekingalpha.com/pr/17852549-gilead-announces-results-from-phase-3-trial-of-investigational-antiviral-remdesivir-in
Fingers crossed.
-
On-again off-again potential of Gilead's remdesivir is on again after positive results from an open-label Phase 3 clinical trial, SIMPLE, evaluating five- and 10-day courses in severely ill hospitalized COVID-19 patients.
https://seekingalpha.com/pr/17852549-gilead-announces-results-from-phase-3-trial-of-investigational-antiviral-remdesivir-in
Fingers crossed.
Fauci used unusually aggressive, positive language to describe these results. From the results they've shown they seem to be more aggressive/positive than the data supports. I wonder if they have more data, that hasn't been released yet.
Or it is possible, since this does show a clinical benefit, they are using aggressively positive language to get doctors to use this, and quit using hydroxychloroquine, which has been proven to have no benefit.
-
Fauci used unusually aggressive, positive language to describe these results. From the results they've shown they seem to be more aggressive/positive than the data supports. I wonder if they have more data, that hasn't been released yet.
Or it is possible, since this does show a clinical benefit, they are using aggressively positive language to get doctors to use this, and quit using hydroxychloroquine, which has been proven to have no benefit.
Agree. I was surprised how outwardly optimistic he was, given his usual more cautious tone. I hope it was because he actually is that optimistic, based on all the facts at his disposal, and not because he was being nudged by somebody.
-
Fauci used unusually aggressive, positive language to describe these results. From the results they've shown they seem to be more aggressive/positive than the data supports. I wonder if they have more data, that hasn't been released yet.
Or it is possible, since this does show a clinical benefit, they are using aggressively positive language to get doctors to use this, and quit using hydroxychloroquine, which has been proven to have no benefit.
Proven to have no benefit 🤦♂️
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8266737/amp/Doctors-group-claims-hydroxychloroquine-helps-91-coronavirus-patients.html
American Association of Physicians and Surgeons disagrees that hydroxy has no benefit.
-
Proven to have no benefit 🤦♂️
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8266737/amp/Doctors-group-claims-hydroxychloroquine-helps-91-coronavirus-patients.html
American Association of Physicians and Surgeons disagrees that hydroxy has no benefit.
So I googled the "American Association of Physicians and Surgeons."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons
"The association is generally recognized as politically conservative or ultra-conservative, and its publication advocates a range of scientifically discredited hypotheses, including the belief that HIV does not cause AIDS, that being gay reduces life expectancy, that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that there is a causal relationship between vaccines and autism."
Sounds credible. ::)
Seriously people. Be better.
-
Fauci used unusually aggressive, positive language to describe these results. From the results they've shown they seem to be more aggressive/positive than the data supports. I wonder if they have more data, that hasn't been released yet.
Or it is possible, since this does show a clinical benefit, they are using aggressively positive language to get doctors to use this, and quit using hydroxychloroquine, which has been proven to have no benefit.
Is there a published link to a double blind randomized study of several hundred subjects that definitively demonstrates that, otherwise it is just all speculation one way or the other.
Let's wait and see what the science tells us not just some observations from a small set of patients that come to opposite conclusions.
-
So I googled the "American Association of Physicians and Surgeons."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons
"The association is generally recognized as politically conservative or ultra-conservative, and its publication advocates a range of scientifically discredited hypotheses, including the belief that HIV does not cause AIDS, that being gay reduces life expectancy, that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that there is a causal relationship between vaccines and autism."
Sounds credible. ::)
Seriously people. Be better.
LOL.
"AAPS opposes mandated evidence-based medicine and practice guidelines".
You know, I wish the stupid actually did burn.
-
Is there a published link to a double blind randomized study of several hundred subjects that definitively demonstrates that.
Dont forget peer reviewed. Gotta have it be peer reviewed.
-
So I googled the "American Association of Physicians and Surgeons."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons
"The association is generally recognized as politically conservative or ultra-conservative, and its publication advocates a range of scientifically discredited hypotheses, including the belief that HIV does not cause AIDS, that being gay reduces life expectancy, that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that there is a causal relationship between vaccines and autism."
Sounds credible. ::)
Seriously people. Be better.
Isn't this the group during the Tea Party days that said we should get rid of Medicare and Medicaid?
-
I do appreciate the posters supplying the unintended humor and satire. Unintentional irony is the best
-
Dont forget peer reviewed. Gotta have it be peer reviewed.
Absolutely.
-
Is there a published link to a double blind randomized study of several hundred subjects that definitively demonstrates that, otherwise it is just all speculation one way or the other.
Let's wait and see what the science tells us not just some observations from a small set of patients that come to opposite conclusions.
Sure, but I can say the same thing about taking Zyrtec. Scientists don't set up double blind randomized tests with several hundred subjects in the hope that the crap they've thrown against the wall sticks.
In other words, scientists don't do massive expensive studies on things that don't work in a clinical setting. There are phases to testing, and you don't blindly move forward on something that lacks evidence of efficacy.
-
Is there a published link to a double blind randomized study of several hundred subjects that definitively demonstrates that, otherwise it is just all speculation one way or the other.
Let's wait and see what the science tells us not just some observations from a small set of patients that come to opposite conclusions.
Cheers to a reasonable, level headed, patient approach to see what works and what doesn’t! Linked is a great article listing out all the various clinical trials going on for a whole host of therapeutics including hydroxy.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/04/27/tracking-the-hunt-for-coronavirus-drugs-and-vaccines-211416
-
Sure, but I can say the same thing about taking Zyrtec. Scientists don't set up double blind randomized tests with several hundred subjects in the hope that the crap they've thrown against the wall sticks.
In other words, scientists don't do massive expensive studies on things that don't work in a clinical setting. There are phases to testing, and you don't blindly move forward on something that lacks evidence of efficacy.
So the fact hydroxy is currently involved in numerous different phase III trials shows signs of promise? Is that what you’re saying?
-
Sure, but I can say the same thing about taking Zyrtec. Scientists don't set up double blind randomized tests with several hundred subjects in the hope that the crap they've thrown against the wall sticks.
In other words, scientists don't do massive expensive studies on things that don't work in a clinical setting. There are phases to testing, and you don't blindly move forward on something that lacks evidence of efficacy.
You know, I think this is just wrong. Unless we set up a study, how are we ever going to know if disinfectant by injection inside, or almost a cleaning, is effective or not?
-
I do appreciate the posters supplying the unintended humor and satire. Unintentional irony is the best
My post was not an endorsement of the AAPS but just a link to an article that seemed to have taken a look at the totality of all the anecdotal evidence out there showing there are benefits to its use. I guess my point was that there is ample evidence out there showing success using it and there is evidence showing the value is minimal as well. Either way to totally write it off seems silly.
-
LOL.
"AAPS opposes mandated evidence-based medicine and practice guidelines".
You know, I wish the stupid actually did burn.
Nice man.
-
Nice man.
To be clear, I was referring to that group (and anyone willing to be treated by them). They don't believe in evidence-based medicine. They also don't believe there should be penalties for doctors that make mistakes. They don't believe HIV causes AIDS. They DO believe vaccines cause autism. In short, their medical practices are informed by their politics, not what the evidence shows.
Good luck to anyone unfortunate enough to have one of their members as their doctor.
-
Sure, but I can say the same thing about taking Zyrtec. Scientists don't set up double blind randomized tests with several hundred subjects in the hope that the crap they've thrown against the wall sticks.
In other words, scientists don't do massive expensive studies on things that don't work in a clinical setting. There are phases to testing, and you don't blindly move forward on something that lacks evidence of efficacy.
But the French and the Chinese saw evidence of improvement with patients on chloroquine and Z-pac in a clinical setting, the VA saw just the opposite, the jury is still out. There is also the question if it can be used as a prophylactic for frontline health providers.
-
Is there a published link to a double blind randomized study of several hundred subjects that definitively demonstrates that, otherwise it is just all speculation one way or the other.
Let's wait and see what the science tells us not just some observations from a small set of patients that come to opposite conclusions.
At face value, that is not an unfair criticism of my statement and stances on previous issues. Here is why, though, I disagree with the sentiment.
The default stance is drugs do not have a benefit for a treatment pathway, unless their is evidence to support that benefit/treatment. There was some anecdotal data to support hydroxychloroquine + Zpack, which then warranted the hypothesis that "HC + Z can function as a COVID treatment"
That then has to either be proven by a rigorous double bind study. Or it can be falsified, by data showing one of two things. In larger numbers of patients, there is no benefit, or the treatment has negative side effects that prohibit the treatment.
In this case we both have larger studies, showing no statistically significant effect, and we have studies that had to be ceased, because of dangerous side effects. In normal research, the side effect results would end all current studies, but these are not normal times.
So since there is falsifying evidence, and dangerous side effects, that is enough to prove, no benefit.
The biggest study in NY looked at 600 patients, and found no benefit. It was enough to get the FDA to recommend the drug not be used outside of hospitals or research trials, because of dangerous side effects.
-
Cheers to a reasonable, level headed, patient approach to see what works and what doesn’t! Linked is a great article listing out all the various clinical trials going on for a whole host of therapeutics including hydroxy.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/04/27/tracking-the-hunt-for-coronavirus-drugs-and-vaccines-211416
Exactly. That’s 100% different than the other article you posted. These are trials. The article was a declarative statement.
-
Exactly. That’s 100% different than the other article you posted. These are trials. The article was a declarative statement.
Then you only read the headline and not the article.
Article literally talks about the failed VA study, the new FDA warning regarding heart arrhythmia, etc. The article was far from a declarative statement but I thought did a decent job telling both the good and the bad from various anecdotal trials.
-
At face value, that is not an unfair criticism of my statement and stances on previous issues. Here is why, though, I disagree with the sentiment.
The default stance is drugs do not have a benefit for a treatment pathway, unless their is evidence to support that benefit/treatment. There was some anecdotal data to support hydroxychloroquine + Zpack, which then warranted the hypothesis that "HC + Z can function as a COVID treatment"
That then has to either be proven by a rigorous double bind study. Or it can be falsified, by data showing one of two things. In larger numbers of patients, there is no benefit, or the treatment has negative side effects that prohibit the treatment.
In this case we both have larger studies, showing no statistically significant effect, and we have studies that had to be ceased, because of dangerous side effects. In normal research, the side effect results would end all current studies, but these are not normal times.
So since there is falsifying evidence, and dangerous side effects, that is enough to prove, no benefit.
The biggest study in NY looked at 600 patients, and found no benefit. It was enough to get the FDA to recommend the drug not be used outside of hospitals or research trials, because of dangerous side effects.
Was the 600 patient any trial double blind randomized? If not could those results have been falsified? And if it’s now known to have zero benefit and have possible dangerous side effects why haven’t the multiple phase III trials been shut down?
-
Was the 600 patient any trial double blind randomized? If not could those results have been falsified? And if it’s now known to have zero benefit and have possible dangerous side effects why haven’t the multiple phase III trials been shut down?
NY*
-
But the French and the Chinese saw evidence of improvement with patients on chloroquine and Z-pac in a clinical setting, the VA saw just the opposite, the jury is still out. There is also the question if it can be used as a prophylactic for frontline health providers.
The jury is not out. There are just a few posters determined to show that quack suggestions have merit.
-
Was the 600 patient any trial double blind randomized? If not could those results have been falsified? And if it’s now known to have zero benefit and have possible dangerous side effects why haven’t the multiple phase III trials been shut down?
The release doesn't say if it was double blind. But it was randomized, and did have placebo controls. The Brazil study was double blind, but had to be stopped because of dangerous and possibly fatal side effects.
As I said, if this was normal times, this would stop any and all clinical trials, but these are not normal times.
And you misunderstand "falsified." It is a philosophy of science concept, that to qualify as science a hypothesis has to be falsifiable, in general meaning that an experiment can be constructed that would prove false a hypothesis.
It is part of the idea that science is never proven, but advances through the collection of disconfirming evidence forcing the revision of ideas/hypotheses. The Brazil and NY studies falsify the hypothesis that hydroxychloroquine is a safe and effective treatment.
-
Then you only read the headline and not the article.
Article literally talks about the failed VA study, the new FDA warning regarding heart arrhythmia, etc. The article was far from a declarative statement but I thought did a decent job telling both the good and the bad from various anecdotal trials.
I read both. You apparently don't understand what you are posting.
-
I read both. You apparently don't understand what you are posting.
By all means help me understand what I’m posting. Does the article not talk about failed VA trial, FDA warning, while also talking about some of the positive results of anecdotal trials?
-
The release doesn't say if it was double blind. But it was randomized, and did have placebo controls. The Brazil study was double blind, but had to be stopped because of dangerous and possibly fatal side effects.
As I said, if this was normal times, this would stop any and all clinical trials, but these are not normal times.
And you misunderstand "falsified." It is a philosophy of science concept, that to qualify as science a hypothesis has to be falsifiable, in general meaning that an experiment can be constructed that would prove false a hypothesis.
It is part of the idea that science is never proven, but advances through the collection of disconfirming evidence forcing the revision of ideas/hypotheses. The Brazil and NY studies falsify the hypothesis that hydroxychloroquine is a safe and effective treatment.
You are 100% right in that I misunderstood falsified. I have no idea what you just said 🤪
-
The jury is not out. There are just a few posters determined to show that quack suggestions have merit.
Up until now I was trying to keep an open mind and holding out hope that hydroxy might be one of many successful therapies. But now that Jockey has weighed in and assured me the jury is no longer out and it’s a done deal I guess I’ll just close that door. Thanks Jockey!
-
Up until now I was trying to keep an open mind and holding out hope that hydroxy might be one of many successful therapies. But now that Jockey has weighed in and assured me the jury is no longer out and it’s a done deal I guess I’ll just close that door. Thanks Jockey!
I believe in science. You apparently believe in our leader.
-
I believe in science. You apparently believe in our leader.
I wish they were the same, but alas....
-
I believe in science. You apparently believe in our leader.
No Jockey, I believe in neither of those. I believe in you.
-
Bill Maher's monologue, April 24:
Trump was pissed off this week because they finally got back the largest study so far about Hydroxychloroquine ... this is the crap that Trump has been saying, "What do you have to lose?" He's been pushing this like a Buick dealer trying to unload last year's Skylark.
But the study came back and it turns out it doesn't work, it's dangerous and it hasn't been vetted. If it was a person, he would have hired it.
But what is this, "What do you have to lose?" About a dangerous unvetted drug that has side effects? This is why my mother told me, "Never take medical advice from a fat guy in clown makeup." ... Are we sure that the makeup is not lead based?
Trump's having a bad week so he's going back to his greatest hits. He announced a travel ban on everywhere. No more immigrants till he figures out where Fauci's from. ... So all of you who are planning to move to the most infected country on earth, tough luck on you!
-
No Jockey, I believe in neither of those. I believe in you.
Not up to defending your position, huh?
-
Not up to defending your position, huh?
I’ve defended my position in previous posts as to why I believe you cant shut the door on hydroxy yet.
The fact there are on going phase III trials should be enough to leave an open mind to what those results might show.
What is your defense (besides putting down other people’s opinions and name calling) for your position?
-
I’ve defended my position in previous posts as to why I believe you cant shut the door on hydroxy yet.
The fact there are on going phase III trials should be enough to leave an open mind to what those results might show.
What is your defense (besides putting down other people’s opinions and name calling) for your position?
Look, you're not wrong. There is hope, but I'd place it alongside as much hope as the Bears winning the Super Bowl this year.
Personally, I hope it works out. But since you posed about the Phase III trials yesterday, I had to go back and do some more reading. I believe that researchers are more hopeful that the zpack is the important part of the therapy.
-
Look, you're not wrong. There is hope, but I'd place it alongside as much hope as the Bears winning the Super Bowl this year.
Personally, I hope it works out. But since you posed about the Phase III trials yesterday, I had to go back and do some more reading. I believe that researchers are more hopeful that the zpack is the important part of the therapy.
Cheers mate! Whether it’s the zpack, hydroxy, or another combination of medications that are readily available I hope we can all get behind the idea we should be leaving no stone unturned!!
-
Cheers mate! Whether it’s the zpack, hydroxy, or another combination of medications that are readily available I hope we can all get behind the idea we should be leaving no stone unturned!!
I think most reasonable people are right here with you.
What some were less keen about was an ignorant reality TV host screaming at press briefings mini-campaign rallies: "Go get this! What do you have to lose?"
-
I think most reasonable people are right here with you.
What some were less keen about was an ignorant reality TV host screaming at press briefings mini-campaign rallies: "Go get this! What do you have to lose?"
I hate the bombastic rhetoric as well and I’m generally a supporter of the president but agree those press briefings did more harm then good half the time for him.
But almost 4 years into his presidency he’s obviously not going to change his messaging or how it’s delivered. I try to ignore the day to day chaos with the media and focus on his actions/policies more then the constant carnival barking, which can be difficult at times for sure.
-
I hate the bombastic rhetoric as well and I’m generally a supporter of the president but agree those press briefings did more harm then good half the time for him.
But almost 4 years into his presidency he’s obviously not going to change his messaging or how it’s delivered. I try to ignore the day to day chaos with the media and focus on his actions/policies more then the constant carnival barking, which can be difficult at times for sure.
Fair enough. We obviously disagree on the quality of his actions/policies, but neither of us has to discuss that here.
Many of those in his inner circle and his party are trying to get him to do fewer (or no) briefings, and for obvious reasons. His approval rating keeps sinking, and those have contributed to the decline.
-
Just a comment on remdesovir: I truly hope this drug turns out to be effective.
That said, I do NOT think FDA should rush to approve the Emergency Use Authorization before fully completed Phase III trials ultimately demonstrate the safety and and efficacy of the drug.
Why? Once the EUA is issued, any physician can give the drug for severe covid cases, so no patient is going to agree to participate in a randomized, placebo-controlled study. And once that happens, we will once again be in a position of working without complete data.
We should enroll patients in these trials as quickly as possible - and given current infection rates, that should not be a problem...as long as the EUA is not issued prematurely.
-
https://wbbm780.radio.com/articles/uptown-hospital-sees-success-in-covid-19-plasma-treatment
Weiss Hospital has a positive outcome from plasma treatment. Hopeful.
-
The jury is not out. There are just a few posters determined to show that quack suggestions have merit.
So the Chinese and French clinicians are quacks?
-
So the Chinese and French clinicians are quacks?
The French doctor pushing this was barred from publishing in some major journals for fraudulent research, and in this study he removed patients that didn't fit his model, he manipulated data, refused to share raw data, and many other issues.
https://forbetterscience.com/2020/03/26/chloroquine-genius-didier-raoult-to-save-the-world-from-covid-19/
The Chinese study was very preliminary. It warranted followup, properly done followups show no benefit.
The head of the French study also believes such things as, there is no such thing as drinking too much alcohol.
"In biology, the concept of threshold does not exist. This means that there is no amount of alcohol from which it becomes dangerous to drink it."
He doesn't believe in widespread vaccination in developed nations.
He believes sunscreen shouldn't be used by the average person, and that more sun is actually good to avoid serious skin cancers.
That there should be no concern about "antibiotic resistant bacteria" because we have antibiotics that kill all bacteria (we do not).
And, related to this, he thinks antibiotics should be prescribed for any flu (caused by a virus) that persists for more than 3 days (so all flus).
-
So the Chinese and French clinicians are quacks?
I’m not going to argue about the drug any more. The only people defending it here are the trump/ Fox News people. Your only goal is to fawn over what they say.
-
The French doctor pushing this was barred from publishing in some major journals for fraudulent research, and in this study he removed patients that didn't fit his model, he manipulated data, refused to share raw data, and many other issues.
https://forbetterscience.com/2020/03/26/chloroquine-genius-didier-raoult-to-save-the-world-from-covid-19/
And let's not forget that it was this flawed French study that was the source of Oz trotting out on Fox and extolling it as another one of his miracle cures. And because he was on Fox news, and because Oz had been "nice to him" (very important in Trump world), Trump latched on to this like a drowning man.
And as soon as Trump started promoting it, Fox News had to jump on board and endlessly proclaim it as the game-changing miracle cure. And when doctors and scientists said, "hey, hold on, shouldn't we actually test this to see if it, you know, actually works?", Fox turned it into the latest partisan wedge issue by saying those "elites" and "intellectuals"--things their viewers have been taught are bad--were trying to bring down the President.
So by all means there should be continued Phase III trials so long as the evidence supports it, but in the meantime I am going to discount trials from anti-evidence anti-vaxxers who make their members vow not to serve Medicare and Medicare patients and believe guns result in fewer deaths.
-
And speaking of quacks ...
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article242210931.html?
The board chairman of Gaston County’s largest health care system has shared political coronavirus posts on social media including one calling stay-at-home orders “tyranny” and another speculating whether the pandemic was caused by “a secret Chinese bio-warfare weapon.”
The posts from Donnie Loftis, chairman of CaroMont Health’s board and former Gaston County commissioners chairman, came after Gaston — and many others in the state — adopted local restrictions on businesses and public activity. Gov. Roy Cooper issued a statewide stay-at-home order on March 27 that is scheduled to last through May 8, and North Carolina has closed all public schools through the end of the school year.
This story is a subscriber exclusive
CaroMont Health restricted visitors to its facilities, and urged the public to stay home and practice social distancing efforts. In a statement on the hospital’s website on April 15, officials said PPE for health care workers was in short supply — “That’s why it is absolutely imperative people who can stay home, stay home.”
Three days later, Loftis shared on his Facebook page a picture that reads: “Quarantine is when you restrict the movement of sick people. Tyranny is when you restrict the movement of healthy people.”
Yep, you gotta love it when the folks in charge of "science" go off the rails.
-
And speaking of quacks ...
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article242210931.html?
The board chairman of Gaston County’s largest health care system has shared political coronavirus posts on social media including one calling stay-at-home orders “tyranny” and another speculating whether the pandemic was caused by “a secret Chinese bio-warfare weapon.”
The posts from Donnie Loftis, chairman of CaroMont Health’s board and former Gaston County commissioners chairman, came after Gaston — and many others in the state — adopted local restrictions on businesses and public activity. Gov. Roy Cooper issued a statewide stay-at-home order on March 27 that is scheduled to last through May 8, and North Carolina has closed all public schools through the end of the school year.
This story is a subscriber exclusive
CaroMont Health restricted visitors to its facilities, and urged the public to stay home and practice social distancing efforts. In a statement on the hospital’s website on April 15, officials said PPE for health care workers was in short supply — “That’s why it is absolutely imperative people who can stay home, stay home.”
Three days later, Loftis shared on his Facebook page a picture that reads: “Quarantine is when you restrict the movement of sick people. Tyranny is when you restrict the movement of healthy people.”
Yep, you gotta love it when the folks in charge of "science" go off the rails.
The idea behind bioweapons is the same as all weapons, you don't want them to go off in your face. You want to be able to control what happens. A highly contagious virus would be a terrible bioweapon.
-
A pretty grim view in today's NYTimes about how long it really takes to produce a totally new vaccine.
How Long Will a Vaccine Really Take?
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/30/opinion/coronavirus-covid-vaccine.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage&action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
Some interesting numbers: The varicella (chickenpox) and FluMist vaccines took 28 years to produce; the HPV and rotavirus vaccines took 15. The article describes the usual timelines and what it might take to shorten them. It also allows you to click buttons to see how certain "shortcuts" would accelerate the process.
I would love to see something in the next year or two, but this demonstrates the kind of odds we are up against....
-
A pretty grim view in today's NYTimes about how long it really takes to produce a totally new vaccine.
How Long Will a Vaccine Really Take?
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/30/opinion/coronavirus-covid-vaccine.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage&action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
Some interesting numbers: The varicella (chickenpox) and FluMist vaccines took 28 years to produce; the HPV and rotavirus vaccines took 15. The article describes the usual timelines and what it might take to shorten them. It also allows you to click buttons to see how certain "shortcuts" would accelerate the process.
I would love to see something in the next year or two, but this demonstrates the kind of odds we are up against....
Fauci said today there should be one available with millions of doses by the end of the year.
-
Fauci said today there should be one available with millions of doses by the end of the year.
He actually said he believes it’s “in the realm of possibility” that they might be available “if things fall in the right place.” Plenty of hedging there.
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/495412-fauci-hundreds-of-millions-of-coronavirus-vaccine-doses-may-be-ready-by
Color me skeptical...
-
I will believe it when I see it, but given who is boss is, I am skeptical. Boss man said we would have plenty of tests available by now, and we’re still waiting....
I think we will get one by then. Simply because they have to. It might not be that effective, but as long as it is safe and offers some protection, they are going to put one out there.
-
I will believe it when I see it, but given who is boss is, I am skeptical. Boss man said we would have plenty of tests available by now, and we’re still waiting....
Haha, ok. You want to place a wager on the over under of a vaccine being available by 12/31/20?
-
Haha, ok. You want to place a wager on the over under of a vaccine being available by 12/31/20?
Read my edited response above. You didn’t even represent his comments correctly.
-
Read my edited response above. You didn’t even represent his comments correctly.
So how bout a wager?
-
Read my edited response above. You didn’t even represent his comments correctly.
He didn’t use the “realm of possibility” comment, that was Savannah Guthrie. He said it’s doable. And I don’t think the caveat about the right things falling into place is a hedge, as much as he’s not one to talk in absolutes when many things are in flux. I think that’s a very encouraging stance from him
-
So how bout a wager?
Lol. I don’t bet with people who can’t understand the difference between “should” and “in the realm of possibility.”
Too sloppy.
-
He didn’t use the “realm of possibility” comment, that was Savannah Guthrie. He said it’s doable. And I don’t think the caveat about the right things falling into place is a hedge, as much as he’s not one to talk in absolutes when many things are in flux. I think that’s a very encouraging stance from him
Correct. He said “I do” when she asked if it was in the realm of possibility.”
And that’s very different from “should.”
Look, I would be as happy as anyone to get an effective vaccine because I am as susceptible as any of you. I just don’t see it happening. I hope I am wrong.
-
So how bout a wager?
Betting on a rona vaccine is a bit...much, aina?
-
Betting on a rona vaccine is a bit...much, aina?
It is awful, Ziggy - but not as bad as the guys who wanted to bet the “over” on total deaths estimated by August on the U of Washington website.
-
It is awful, Ziggy - but not as bad as the guys who wanted to bet the “over” on total deaths estimated by August on the U of Washington website.
Agreed.
I hope any discussion of ‘betting’ isn’t literal, because I truly hope we all want the same endpoints (fewer deaths, less suffering, and less overall damage to the economy).
If I ever say ‘I bet this’ or ‘I bet that’ on a grave subject like this, it would really mean ‘I think this’ or ‘I fear that‘...not that I’m willing to wager money on it.
-
It is awful, Ziggy - but not as bad as the guys who wanted to bet the “over” on total deaths estimated by August on the U of Washington website.
Were there odds on the site or a place to make a wager?
Or were they using the informal version of bet, meaning that they "think" it is true?
-
Were there odds on the site or a place to make a wager?
Or were they using the informal version of bet, meaning that they "think" it is true?
I don’t have the energy to try and find it. My recollection is that estimates on the U Wash model were maybe 67,000 by August and the numbers were approaching 60,000. One poster for sure (maybe more) opined they’d like to go to Vegas and take the over. Ghoulish.
Edit: I’m old, not proficient on copy/pasting. Page 188 of the covid thread:
MU 82 reports that the IHME is projecting 74,073 covid deaths by July 15.
pbiflyer responds: If Vegas reopens I’m taking the over on those numbers. We’ll be at 67000 in less than a week and over 74000 by mid May....
GOOO Marquette: Yep. Wonder if the casino will take bets on that.
-
I don’t have the energy to try and find it. My recollection is that estimates on the U Wash model were maybe 67,000 by August and the numbers were approaching 60,000. One poster for sure (maybe more) opined they’d like to go to Vegas and take the over. Ghoulish.
Edit: I’m old, not proficient on copy/pasting. Page 188 of the covid thread:
MU 82 reports that the IHME is projecting 74,073 covid deaths by July 15.
pbiflyer responds: If Vegas reopens I’m taking the over on those numbers. We’ll be at 67000 in less than a week and over 74000 by mid May....
GOOO Marquette: Yep. Wonder if the casino will take bets on that.
Yep - a form of gallows humor. A way of dealing with stress in a stressful situation. The concept of ‘betting’ was simply a proxy for discussing what we ’thought’ was going to happen. At least it was for me.
It would indeed be ghoulish if anyone actually bet money on something as serious as this.
By the way, you are better at copying and pasting than you give yourself credit for. ;)
-
I don’t have the energy to try and find it. My recollection is that estimates on the U Wash model were maybe 67,000 by August and the numbers were approaching 60,000. One poster for sure (maybe more) opined they’d like to go to Vegas and take the over. Ghoulish.
Edit: I’m old, not proficient on copy/pasting. Page 188 of the covid thread:
MU 82 reports that the IHME is projecting 74,073 covid deaths by July 15.
pbiflyer responds: If Vegas reopens I’m taking the over on those numbers. We’ll be at 67000 in less than a week and over 74000 by mid May....
GOOO Marquette: Yep. Wonder if the casino will take bets on that.
That was me, but it was a way to emphasis that the people making these predictions were way off. And if you take it in the larger context of the thread, it was a response to people that were claiming it wasn't that bad and wasn't that bad for younger people.
So in the whole context, a bet seems far less ghoulish than what I was responding to, which was basically "Who gives a crap if a bunch of old people die?". I think that is obscene. My WWII vet dad, who is 95 agrees.
-
Stem cell treatment in Miami. Look it up.
-
Stem cell treatment in Miami. Look it up.
Still early with a very small sample size, but the initial report of the three critical patients who recovered looks promising.
-
Stem cell treatment in Miami. Look it up.
Source? ;)
-
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242388196.html
Of course, stem cells can open a whole different can of worms.
-
Stem cell treatment in Miami. Look it up.
Looks similar to a number of approaches using the same strategy, including the one Ners was pushing previously, from the company he was invested in. Here is a recent review article on a lot of the different trials using the same approach.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7152513/
-
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242388196.html
Of course, stem cells can open a whole different can of worms.
Why? These are umbilical cord stem cells. That’s not controversial, is it?
-
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2020/05/08/michigan-doctors-split-using-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus/3093146001/
The big test in Detroit appears to be a (sad trombone)
-
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2020/05/08/michigan-doctors-split-using-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus/3093146001/
The big test in Detroit appears to be a (sad trombone)
Definitely not turning out to be the silver bullet we all hoped for but fingers crossed they find more of a benefit in its use with healthcare workers in helping prevent from even obtaining the virus. Otherwise back to the drawing board I guess.
-
Duuuuuuuude…
Cannabis shows promise blocking coronavirus infection: Alberta researcher
https://calgaryherald.com/cannabis/cannabis-shows-promise-blocking-coronavirus-infection-alberta-researcher/
-
Duuuuuuuude…
Cannabis shows promise blocking coronavirus infection: Alberta researcher
https://calgaryherald.com/cannabis/cannabis-shows-promise-blocking-coronavirus-infection-alberta-researcher/
Time to go pick up my meds....
-
Duuuuuuuude…
Cannabis shows promise blocking coronavirus infection: Alberta researcher
https://calgaryherald.com/cannabis/cannabis-shows-promise-blocking-coronavirus-infection-alberta-researcher/
Alright, alright, alright.
-
Duuuuuuuude…
Cannabis shows promise blocking coronavirus infection: Alberta researcher
https://calgaryherald.com/cannabis/cannabis-shows-promise-blocking-coronavirus-infection-alberta-researcher/
I know this is about extracts but it's still worrisome to me, as acute or chronic smoke inhalation (lung damage) of any kind is a risk factor for severe COVID. People should be taking this opportunity to be less addicted to drugs, not more... I won't be bothered to check but I'm sure there's plenty of hucksterism across the internet that weed inhibits COVID & to buy buy buy
-
Some ivermectin updates, I know there is more solid evidence for other compounds as of today but tracking this one has become a pet project of mine.
1. Moderately sized cohort study:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3580524
Of those requiring mechanical ventilation fewer patients died in the ivermectin group (7.3% versus 21.3%) and overall death rates were lower with ivermectin (1.4% versus 8.5%; HR 0.20 CI 95% 0.11-0.37, p<0.0001).
Conclusions and Relevance: The administration of ivermectin during COVID-19 illness in hospitalized patients is associated with a lower mortality and hospital length of stay. These findings require confirmation in randomized controlled trials.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXiX8-RUMAEdKDQ?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXiX8-TUMAA0plE?format=jpg&name=medium)
Many other countries are resorting to research on existing cheap compounds because those countries are low in the food chain (as in, they are susceptible to shortages on the "hot" pharmaceuticals)... We (the US) will be well behind as billions are being spent on boutique treatments that cost thousands per dose & show modest benefits (reinforcing the need to spend a ton). Useful COVID drugs that cost pennies will probably be identified elsewhere. There is no money to be made - why would any pharma company spend $100 million on a drug they can't monopolize?
2. UK studying top 4 promising COVID drugs
https://www.wtvq.com/2020/05/07/uk-covid-19-clinical-trial-seeks-new-treatment-options/
3. Physicians in Peru & Dominican Republic have success in treating with ivermectin (but mixed results translating their study to English)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXN6jMmVAAAXTHp?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXN6jMoVcAApYEb?format=jpg&name=large)
PDF link to study:
https://filebin.net/94gles12pjkihe7y
-
NYU Medical School promising study on HCQ when used early and with Zinc.
https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2020/05/12/nyu-study-looks-at-hydroxychloroquine-zinc-azithromycin-combo-on-decreasing-covid-19-deaths
-
NYU Medical School promising study on HCQ when used early and with Zinc.
https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2020/05/12/nyu-study-looks-at-hydroxychloroquine-zinc-azithromycin-combo-on-decreasing-covid-19-deaths
From their paper "In univariate analysis, the addition of zinc sulfate to hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin was not associated with a decrease in length of hospital stay, duration of mechanical ventilation, maximum oxygen flow rate, average oxygen flow rate, average fraction of inspired oxygen, or maximum fraction of inspired oxygen during hospitalization"
They also state in their paper, that they do not even know if the patients were administered the drugs, just that drugs were ordered. They readily acknowledge that their data doesn't prove anything, because of a long list of flaws in their study. Not their fault, as it was a retrospective analysis and not a planned controlled study.
-
NYU Medical School promising study on HCQ when used early and with Zinc.
https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2020/05/12/nyu-study-looks-at-hydroxychloroquine-zinc-azithromycin-combo-on-decreasing-covid-19-deaths
That study is not specific for HCQ. It's being reported due to the political implications & shiny object syndrome of the press. No reasonable clinician would draw a conclusion from it.
Politics aside, I am hopeful about HCQ.
-
From their paper "In univariate analysis, the addition of zinc sulfate to hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin was not associated with a decrease in length of hospital stay, duration of mechanical ventilation, maximum oxygen flow rate, average oxygen flow rate, average fraction of inspired oxygen, or maximum fraction of inspired oxygen during hospitalization"
They also state in their paper, that they do not even know if the patients were administered the drugs, just that drugs were ordered. They readily acknowledge that their data doesn't prove anything, because of a long list of flaws in their study. Not their fault, as it was a retrospective analysis and not a planned controlled study.
Oooph. Cheeks is just rolling down the mountain, hitting every rock edge on the way.
-
Does it ever get embarrassing? Posting a link and claiming it says the opposite of what it actually says?
-
Does it ever get embarrassing? Posting a link and claiming it says the opposite of what it actually says?
It could always be performance art.
-
I was about to come back and suggest that it is just part of his schtick. But performance art says it just as well.
-
Does it ever get embarrassing? Posting a link and claiming it says the opposite of what it actually says?
When you have no shame, how can you be embarrassed?
-
Does it ever get embarrassing? Posting a link and claiming it says the opposite of what it actually says?
To be fair, the non-peer reviewed study contradicts itself 3-times in their current published article. But I do applaud the authors in writing up all their flaws and cautioning in interpretation.
Their study absolutely did not state that starting Zinc earlier is better. They actually address as one of their flaws that they don't know when the medications were administered, and that "the point in clinical disease at which patients received those medications could have differed between our two groups."
It's really a bizarre article. It reads like two different authors wrote different parts and completely disagreed on what the data says...that's likely true.
-
if you guys are still arguing about the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine, it's the first drug i am requesting from my doctor. i have read many and heard multiple interview with docs who have been prescribing this drug for years, written papers, have success after success story, saving lives, keeping patients off ventilators, decreasing the length of the illness. some were seeing improvements in patients conditions within 24-48 hours.
if my mom or dad were showing the early signs of coming down with COVID-19, i would either insist the doctor start them on the usual regimine of hydroxychl plus z-pak or i would find a doctor who does treat his patients with this drug. there was a doctor in dallas who was using hydroxy on her patients A LOT, patients coming from all over to be treated by her. then, guess what? the pharmacies(CVS) she is calling her Rx's into told her they refuse to fill the Rx? china? russia? nope, dallas, tx. this is what gubmint healthcare looks like.
its interesting when you google "successful hydroxy studies" it seems the first 10 or more all "poo-poo" the studies, then you get to some of the successful cases. when google makes you scroll to page 2 or 3 to find the credible treatments, this alone causes me to pause. i just find it so interesting that doctors are being admonished, prohibited and even sanctioned for even saying the word hydroxychloroquine by the government, but when one wants to argue about abortion-oh no no no no, that's between a doctor and the patient. they are not going to get in between THAT procedure.
funny how it seems a segment of our population just doesn't want to see us get too successful too fast treating this nasty virus. let's see, maybe in 5-6-7 mos we will have better results, but watch out for that rebound spike. if they are going on yet another "model" from the "experts", better start sounding alarm bells by now. we are taking our eye off of all the collateral damage. you see what they are doing here? under the guise of "you just want to see people die" mantra, well, little secret; many more are dying right now and moving forward-undiagnosed cancers, heart, liver, kidney disease, drug over doses, alcoholism, depression. oh, they know exactly what they are doing-gubmit wack-a-mole. hey! crisis? can't let er go to waste, eyn'a?
-
I would ask for plasma with anti-bodies.
-
if you guys are still arguing about the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine, it's the first drug i am requesting from my doctor.
Ok, "healthcare professional".
-
if you guys are still arguing about the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine, it's the first drug i am requesting from my doctor. i have read many and heard multiple interview with docs who have been prescribing this drug for years, written papers, have success after success story, saving lives, keeping patients off ventilators, decreasing the length of the illness. some were seeing improvements in patients conditions within 24-48 hours.
if my mom or dad were showing the early signs of coming down with COVID-19, i would either insist the doctor start them on the usual regimine of hydroxychl plus z-pak or i would find a doctor who does treat his patients with this drug. there was a doctor in dallas who was using hydroxy on her patients A LOT, patients coming from all over to be treated by her. then, guess what? the pharmacies(CVS) she is calling her Rx's into told her they refuse to fill the Rx? china? russia? nope, dallas, tx. this is what gubmint healthcare looks like.
its interesting when you google "successful hydroxy studies" it seems the first 10 or more all "poo-poo" the studies, then you get to some of the successful cases. when google makes you scroll to page 2 or 3 to find the credible treatments, this alone causes me to pause. i just find it so interesting that doctors are being admonished, prohibited and even sanctioned for even saying the word hydroxychloroquine by the government, but when one wants to argue about abortion-oh no no no no, that's between a doctor and the patient. they are not going to get in between THAT procedure.
funny how it seems a segment of our population just doesn't want to see us get too successful too fast treating this nasty virus. let's see, maybe in 5-6-7 mos we will have better results, but watch out for that rebound spike. if they are going on yet another "model" from the "experts", better start sounding alarm bells by now. we are taking our eye off of all the collateral damage. you see what they are doing here? under the guise of "you just want to see people die" mantra, well, little secret; many more are dying right now and moving forward-undiagnosed cancers, heart, liver, kidney disease, drug over doses, alcoholism, depression. oh, they know exactly what they are doing-gubmit wack-a-mole. hey! crisis? can't let er go to waste, eyn'a?
Dude, it has nothing to do with "not wanting us to get too successful too fast." That is a conclusion one makes when they view everything through the eyes of politics.
And yes, I trust those "experts" way more than some dentist Google sleuthing in his living room. It just doesn't really work all that well.
-
if you guys are still arguing about the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine, it's the first drug i am requesting from my doctor. i have read many and heard multiple interview with docs who have been prescribing this drug for years, written papers, have success after success story, saving lives, keeping patients off ventilators, decreasing the length of the illness. some were seeing improvements in patients conditions within 24-48 hours.
if my mom or dad were showing the early signs of coming down with COVID-19, i would either insist the doctor start them on the usual regimine of hydroxychl plus z-pak or i would find a doctor who does treat his patients with this drug. there was a doctor in dallas who was using hydroxy on her patients A LOT, patients coming from all over to be treated by her. then, guess what? the pharmacies(CVS) she is calling her Rx's into told her they refuse to fill the Rx? china? russia? nope, dallas, tx. this is what gubmint healthcare looks like.
its interesting when you google "successful hydroxy studies" it seems the first 10 or more all "poo-poo" the studies, then you get to some of the successful cases. when google makes you scroll to page 2 or 3 to find the credible treatments, this alone causes me to pause. i just find it so interesting that doctors are being admonished, prohibited and even sanctioned for even saying the word hydroxychloroquine by the government, but when one wants to argue about abortion-oh no no no no, that's between a doctor and the patient. they are not going to get in between THAT procedure.
funny how it seems a segment of our population just doesn't want to see us get too successful too fast treating this nasty virus. let's see, maybe in 5-6-7 mos we will have better results, but watch out for that rebound spike. if they are going on yet another "model" from the "experts", better start sounding alarm bells by now. we are taking our eye off of all the collateral damage. you see what they are doing here? under the guise of "you just want to see people die" mantra, well, little secret; many more are dying right now and moving forward-undiagnosed cancers, heart, liver, kidney disease, drug over doses, alcoholism, depression. oh, they know exactly what they are doing-gubmit wack-a-mole. hey! crisis? can't let er go to waste, eyn'a?
Oh lord. I don't know where to start... so I won't.
-
Oh lord. I don't know where to start... so I won't.
On behalf of everyone, thank you.
-
if you guys are still arguing about the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine, it's the first drug i am requesting from my doctor. i have read many and heard multiple interview with docs who have been prescribing this drug for years, written papers, have success after success story, saving lives, keeping patients off ventilators, decreasing the length of the illness. some were seeing improvements in patients conditions within 24-48 hours.
if my mom or dad were showing the early signs of coming down with COVID-19, i would either insist the doctor start them on the usual regimine of hydroxychl plus z-pak or i would find a doctor who does treat his patients with this drug. there was a doctor in dallas who was using hydroxy on her patients A LOT, patients coming from all over to be treated by her. then, guess what? the pharmacies(CVS) she is calling her Rx's into told her they refuse to fill the Rx? china? russia? nope, dallas, tx. this is what gubmint healthcare looks like.
its interesting when you google "successful hydroxy studies" it seems the first 10 or more all "poo-poo" the studies, then you get to some of the successful cases. when google makes you scroll to page 2 or 3 to find the credible treatments, this alone causes me to pause. i just find it so interesting that doctors are being admonished, prohibited and even sanctioned for even saying the word hydroxychloroquine by the government, but when one wants to argue about abortion-oh no no no no, that's between a doctor and the patient. they are not going to get in between THAT procedure.
funny how it seems a segment of our population just doesn't want to see us get too successful too fast treating this nasty virus. let's see, maybe in 5-6-7 mos we will have better results, but watch out for that rebound spike. if they are going on yet another "model" from the "experts", better start sounding alarm bells by now. we are taking our eye off of all the collateral damage. you see what they are doing here? under the guise of "you just want to see people die" mantra, well, little secret; many more are dying right now and moving forward-undiagnosed cancers, heart, liver, kidney disease, drug over doses, alcoholism, depression. oh, they know exactly what they are doing-gubmit wack-a-mole. hey! crisis? can't let er go to waste, eyn'a?
This started out making some sense as a partisan opinion I eye rolled at. It devolved into an incoherent rant... if there was ever a time for the Billy Madison meme this would be it.
-
The latest miracle cure that will turn out to be nothing? Or a real possibility?
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3575064-sorrento-claims-covidminus-19-cure
Sorrento Therapeutics (NASDAQ:SRNE) gallops 56% premarket on robust volume in reaction to reports that it has discovered an antibody, dubbed STI-1499, that, it says, can provide 100% inhibition of COVID-19 and flush out the SARS-CoV-2 virus from the body within four days.
"We want to emphasize there is a cure," says CEO Henry Ji. "If we have the neutralizing antibody in your body, you don't need the social distancing. You can open up a society without fear."
The antibody, one of "hundreds" it screened, blocks the coronavirus' spike proteins from attaching to ACE2, a receptor on the surface of healthy cells that serves as a "doorknob" to open the cell to infection.
Ji says STI-1499 can be used as preventative therapy since there are no unwanted side effects, adding that it may be more effective than a vaccine.
The company is partnering with NY-based Mount Sinai to develop an antibody cocktail, Covi-Shield, comprised of three different antibodies, including STI-1499, for prophylactic use. It says it can produce up to 200K doses per month and is looking to produce "tens of millions" to meet demand.
It would be cool if this actually works. It also would be cool if our elected officials would wait to see if it works before telling everybody the cure has arrived.
-
It just doesn't really work all that well.
Are you referring to Hydroxychloroquinine or google sleuthing?
-
The latest miracle cure that will turn out to be nothing? Or a real possibility?
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3575064-sorrento-claims-covidminus-19-cure
Sorrento Therapeutics (NASDAQ:SRNE) gallops 56% premarket on robust volume in reaction to reports that it has discovered an antibody, dubbed STI-1499, that, it says, can provide 100% inhibition of COVID-19 and flush out the SARS-CoV-2 virus from the body within four days.
"We want to emphasize there is a cure," says CEO Henry Ji. "If we have the neutralizing antibody in your body, you don't need the social distancing. You can open up a society without fear."
The antibody, one of "hundreds" it screened, blocks the coronavirus' spike proteins from attaching to ACE2, a receptor on the surface of healthy cells that serves as a "doorknob" to open the cell to infection.
Ji says STI-1499 can be used as preventative therapy since there are no unwanted side effects, adding that it may be more effective than a vaccine.
The company is partnering with NY-based Mount Sinai to develop an antibody cocktail, Covi-Shield, comprised of three different antibodies, including STI-1499, for prophylactic use. It says it can produce up to 200K doses per month and is looking to produce "tens of millions" to meet demand.
It would be cool if this actually works. It also would be cool if our elected officials would wait to see if it works before telling everybody the cure has arrived.
I can't speak to this particular antibody. But I've been a strong advocate that the monoclonal antibody approach is going to be the most likely chance for a cure/treatment soon.
There are a lot of people in this arena. A lot of hurdles to still cross. I'm optimistic that we might be able to rush something to be in use by fall/winter. I wouldn't bet on this company being the winner in that race.
-
I would ask for plasma with anti-bodies.
Yes!! I’d take both but if hydroxy were more readily available I’d start with that while the plasma match is being secured
-
Yes!! I’d take both but if hydroxy were more readily available I’d start with that while the plasma match is being secured
Cool. What do you have to lose?
Then again, you could just wait for the promised miracle.
I can't speak to this particular antibody. But I've been a strong advocate that the monoclonal antibody approach is going to be the most likely chance for a cure/treatment soon.
There are a lot of people in this arena. A lot of hurdles to still cross. I'm optimistic that we might be able to rush something to be in use by fall/winter. I wouldn't bet on this company being the winner in that race.
Right now, investors are putting down some big bets. The company's stock is up 86% this morning as I write this.
-
if you guys are still arguing about the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine, it's the first drug i am requesting from my doctor. i have read many and heard multiple interview with docs who have been prescribing this drug for years, written papers, have success after success story, saving lives, keeping patients off ventilators, decreasing the length of the illness. some were seeing improvements in patients conditions within 24-48 hours.
if my mom or dad were showing the early signs of coming down with COVID-19, i would either insist the doctor start them on the usual regimine of hydroxychl plus z-pak or i would find a doctor who does treat his patients with this drug. there was a doctor in dallas who was using hydroxy on her patients A LOT, patients coming from all over to be treated by her. then, guess what? the pharmacies(CVS) she is calling her Rx's into told her they refuse to fill the Rx? china? russia? nope, dallas, tx. this is what gubmint healthcare looks like.
its interesting when you google "successful hydroxy studies" it seems the first 10 or more all "poo-poo" the studies, then you get to some of the successful cases. when google makes you scroll to page 2 or 3 to find the credible treatments, this alone causes me to pause. i just find it so interesting that doctors are being admonished, prohibited and even sanctioned for even saying the word hydroxychloroquine by the government, but when one wants to argue about abortion-oh no no no no, that's between a doctor and the patient. they are not going to get in between THAT procedure.
funny how it seems a segment of our population just doesn't want to see us get too successful too fast treating this nasty virus. let's see, maybe in 5-6-7 mos we will have better results, but watch out for that rebound spike. if they are going on yet another "model" from the "experts", better start sounding alarm bells by now. we are taking our eye off of all the collateral damage. you see what they are doing here? under the guise of "you just want to see people die" mantra, well, little secret; many more are dying right now and moving forward-undiagnosed cancers, heart, liver, kidney disease, drug over doses, alcoholism, depression. oh, they know exactly what they are doing-gubmit wack-a-mole. hey! crisis? can't let er go to waste, eyn'a?
Can you link to the studies (not anecdotal stories or singular cases) you found that show success?
Also, there is no way any doctor has been prescribing this "for years" for covid-19?
What were the reasons CVS refused to fill? Is there a reliable source that states the federal government told the CVS pharmacists to not fill?
Can you provide examples of doctors getting sanctioned for saying the word hydroxychloroquine?
Can you provide links that demonstrate significantly higher numbers of people dying of other conditions that are being ignored vs expected numbers in a non-pandemic situation?
-
A couple of days ago I listened to an interview with one particular doctor from New York who has had success using HydroxyCQ plus Z-pack. Success in that he used it on about 500+ patients and had only 2 deaths plus a very small amount of people that needed to go to ICU. He said he was only using it on those he felt were already "at risk" type patients, such as age 65+ with hypertension, etc.
He said it is not a cure, but if it is used early on in the infection, it prevents the infection from doing the damage to organs and such much better than if a person just rests at home. He said that the biggest problem is, if it's administered after Day 5 the effectiveness of its' use greatly diminishes. Many people aren't even getting to a hospital or aren't confirmed to have Covid until after Day 5 and by the time they do, it's too late for the drug to work effectively. In other words, it is a good treatment if used early enough in the process, but if it's used as a "Hail Mary" to try to rescue someone well into the progress of the disease, it's not too much better than a placebo at that point.
Probably the number one thing I gathered from his interview, the Covid diagnosis needs to happen much much faster than it typically has been for this to be effective. In otherwords, people need to get to a doctor by Day 4 and get an immediate test that confirms it is Covid. If that happens, they have a legitimate shot at this treatment working for them in his opinion.
-
A couple of days ago I listened to an interview with one particular doctor from New York who has had success using HydroxyCQ plus Z-pack. Success in that he used it on about 500+ patients and had only 2 deaths plus a very small amount of people that needed to go to ICU. He said he was only using it on those he felt were already "at risk" type patients, such as age 65+ with hypertension, etc.
He said it is not a cure, but if it is used early on in the infection, it prevents the infection from doing the damage to organs and such much better than if a person just rests at home. He said that the biggest problem is, if it's administered after Day 5 the effectiveness of its' use greatly diminishes. Many people aren't even getting to a hospital or aren't confirmed to have Covid until after Day 5 and by the time they do, it's too late for the drug to work effectively. In other words, it is a good treatment if used early enough in the process, but if it's used as a "Hail Mary" to try to rescue someone well into the progress of the disease, it's not too much better than a placebo at that point.
Probably the number one thing I gathered from his interview, the Covid diagnosis needs to happen much much faster than it typically has been for this to be effective. In otherwords, people need to get to a doctor by Day 4 and get an immediate test that confirms it is Covid. If that happens, they have a legitimate shot at this treatment working for them in his opinion.
That is called anecdotal evidence. It is essentially worthless information.
-
I do think we can all agree that earlier and easier testing with faster results would be beneficial.
-
I do think we can all agree that earlier and easier testing with faster results would be beneficial.
100%
-
Can you link to the studies (not anecdotal stories or singular cases) you found that show success?
Also, there is no way any doctor has been prescribing this "for years" for covid-19?
What were the reasons CVS refused to fill? Is there a reliable source that states the federal government told the CVS pharmacists to not fill?
Can you provide examples of doctors getting sanctioned for saying the word hydroxychloroquine?
Can you provide links that demonstrate significantly higher numbers of people dying of other conditions that are being ignored vs expected numbers in a non-pandemic situation?
Dude, you know the non-answers to all these questions already.
-
A couple of days ago I listened to an interview with one particular doctor from New York who has had success using HydroxyCQ plus Z-pack. Success in that he used it on about 500+ patients and had only 2 deaths plus a very small amount of people that needed to go to ICU. He said he was only using it on those he felt were already "at risk" type patients, such as age 65+ with hypertension, etc.
He said it is not a cure, but if it is used early on in the infection, it prevents the infection from doing the damage to organs and such much better than if a person just rests at home. He said that the biggest problem is, if it's administered after Day 5 the effectiveness of its' use greatly diminishes. Many people aren't even getting to a hospital or aren't confirmed to have Covid until after Day 5 and by the time they do, it's too late for the drug to work effectively. In other words, it is a good treatment if used early enough in the process, but if it's used as a "Hail Mary" to try to rescue someone well into the progress of the disease, it's not too much better than a placebo at that point.
Probably the number one thing I gathered from his interview, the Covid diagnosis needs to happen much much faster than it typically has been for this to be effective. In otherwords, people need to get to a doctor by Day 4 and get an immediate test that confirms it is Covid. If that happens, they have a legitimate shot at this treatment working for them in his opinion.
I know which doctor you are referring to. At the time he made those statements of 500+, there was something like 10 total cases in his city. He admitted, he was not even bothering to test patients, or for them to have symptoms, he was just prescribing the combination regardless.
So the probably close to 90+% of those patients didn't even have COVID. That is why these anecdotal reports are meaningless.
Frankly, doctors like that should lose their license.
-
My close friend is having a lot of trouble filling her Hydrox prescription of over 10 years for her Lupus.
-
I know which doctor you are referring to. At the time he made those statements of 500+, there was something like 10 total cases in his city. He admitted, he was not even bothering to test patients, or for them to have symptoms, he was just prescribing the combination regardless.
So the probably close to 90+% of those patients didn't even have COVID. That is why these anecdotal reports are meaningless.
Frankly, doctors like that should lose their license.
Meanwhile, my anti being eaten by a tiger drug has been 100% successful in keeping people from being eaten by tigers. And hey, this is Florida, so it is a real concern.
To the OP who is taking HCQ when they get it, why not inject disinfectant as well? What do you have to lose?
-
My close friend is having a lot of trouble filling her Hydrox prescription of over 10 years for her Lupus.
Which is a genuine problem.
-
Which is a genuine problem.
I thought drug shortages only happened in government healthcare systems.
-
I know which doctor you are referring to. At the time he made those statements of 500+, there was something like 10 total cases in his city. He admitted, he was not even bothering to test patients, or for them to have symptoms, he was just prescribing the combination regardless.
So the probably close to 90+% of those patients didn't even have COVID. That is why these anecdotal reports are meaningless.
Frankly, doctors like that should lose their license.
So while I am not 100% sure of the doctor's name who was talking about this on the radio a couple of days ago, I believe this is the current study going on based on his recommendations. You and Hands_Alumni are 100% correct that as of today his current proclamations are anecdotal evidence, but there is a current study going on at a Roslyn, NY hospital based on that evidence that is in progress and began on April 28. That all said, by the time the primary portion of this study is over with in September, there may be other things that prove more effective than Hydroxychloroquine plus Zinc.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04370782 (https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04370782)
-
So while I am not 100% sure of the doctor's name who was talking about this on the radio a couple of days ago, I believe this is the current study going on based on his recommendations. You and Hands_Alumni are 100% correct that as of today his current proclamations are anecdotal evidence, but there is a current study going on at a Roslyn, NY hospital based on that evidence that is in progress and began on April 28. That all said, by the time the primary portion of this study is over with in September, there may be other things that prove more effective than Hydroxychloroquine plus Zinc.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04370782 (https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04370782)
Yes, that is Valdimir Zelenko, he was originally touting that he had a 100% success rate treating 699 patients.
If it wasn't for Hannity and others celebrating him as a hero and giving him a platform he would have vanished.
I'm all for looking at all treatment options, but people like him shouldn't be running them. They need to be properly conducted. He's a nut, plain and simple.
It honestly makes things difficult for the average person to know what is really true, and people in trusted places giving such individuals platforms makes things terrible.
-
Yes, that is Valdimir Zelenko, he was originally touting that he had a 100% success rate treating 699 patients.
If it wasn't for Hannity and others celebrating him as a hero and giving him a platform he would have vanished.
I'm all for looking at all treatment options, but people like him shouldn't be running them. They need to be properly conducted. He's a nut, plain and simple.
It honestly makes things difficult for the average person to know what is really true, and people in trusted places giving such individuals platforms makes things terrible.
Fair enough. I won't die on that hill trying to defend it, but I do think the jury is still out on whether there is some validity to his claims.
Let's hope the Sorrento claims announced earlier today turn out to be real. If they truly have a cure, everything goes back to normal in the U.S. by end of year. Crossing my fingers on that whole deal.
-
Fair enough. I won't die on that hill trying to defend it, but I do think the jury is still out on whether there is some validity to his claims.
Let's hope the Sorrento claims announced earlier today turn out to be real. If they truly have a cure, everything goes back to normal in the U.S. by end of year. Crossing my fingers on that whole deal.
Agreed. We all want something to work asap!
-
We all want the same thing.
-
Let's be honest. People are only pushing Hydroxy because Trump did. Period!
-
Because they want the same thing. An easy, existing effective solution. Their lives back.
-
Let's be honest. People are only pushing Hydroxy because Trump did. Period!
You drunk again, bro?
-
You drunk again, bro?
DON'T make cracks about mental health.
DO make cracks about substance abuse.
-
Dumbass.
You trigger easier than Tommy DeVito. Must be fun at poker night ( Ts and Ps to Spider).
And yes, you do amuse me.
-
the fact is it works!
Some studies have said it has some benefit. Other studies have said it makes no difference. Another study was stopped because it was causing heart issues. So it may work some of the time. It is certainly not the silver bullet.
-
Can you link to the studies (not anecdotal stories or singular cases) you found that show success?
Also, there is no way any doctor has been prescribing this "for years" for covid-19?
What were the reasons CVS refused to fill? Is there a reliable source that states the federal government told the CVS pharmacists to not fill?
Can you provide examples of doctors getting sanctioned for saying the word hydroxychloroquine?
Can you provide links that demonstrate significantly higher numbers of people dying of other conditions that are being ignored vs expected numbers in a non-pandemic situation?
Crickets.
-
Some studies have said it has some benefit. Other studies have said it makes no difference. Another study was stopped because it was causing heart issues. So it may work some of the time. It is certainly not the silver bullet.
BOTH SIDES!
-
Some people say...
-
Moderna says vaccine trials went very well. All participants had antibodies. Market futures up big.
Like the slow trickle of good news on treatment front.
-
Keep sciencing.
-
Moderna says vaccine trials went very well. All participants had antibodies. Market futures up big.
Like the slow trickle of good news on treatment front.
Me too!
Here's a link for those interested:
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3575456-moderna-covidminus-19-vaccine-candidate-shows-positive-action-in-early-stage-study
-
Me too!
Here's a link for those interested:
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3575456-moderna-covidminus-19-vaccine-candidate-shows-positive-action-in-early-stage-study
On day 43 of the trial? That means they began human trials the beginning of April? I did not realize that anyone had progressed that far that fast.
-
On day 43 of the trial? That means they began human trials the beginning of April? I did not realize that anyone had progressed that far that fast.
There is an article in wired that talks about this process. I found it to be interesting.
https://www.wired.com/story/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-trials/ (https://www.wired.com/story/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-trials/)
-
Moderna says vaccine trials went very well. All participants had antibodies. Market futures up big.
Like the slow trickle of good news on treatment front.
I'm always hesitant to get excited about the biotech company that rushes to put out press releases, before they have even analyzed the full results. They didn't do analysis yet on the highest dosage group, which probably could be done in a day or two. The only reason to rush the press release is that your results are not that tantalizing, and usually because someone else has better results coming out soon.
-
I'm always hesitant to get excited about the biotech company that rushes to put out press releases, before they have even analyzed the full results. They didn't do analysis yet on the highest dosage group, which probably could be done in a day or two. The only reason to rush the press release is that your results are not that tantalizing, and usually because someone else has better results coming out soon.
I don't know the medical side at all, but I will say in terms of releases that sometimes companies hands' are forced since they know there are early leaks of information. Better to let the whole financial community know then people trading on inside information.
-
I don't know if this is a silver bullet either. However, they are actually going through the process. Like everybody actually doing the work to find a treatment or vaccine ( I would say 'cure', but I know how that triggers 'some people'), I wish them nothing but the best. Good luck. I hope you have landed on the answer.
-
I don't know the medical side at all, but I will say in terms of releases that sometimes companies hands' are forced since they know there are early leaks of information. Better to let the whole financial community know then people trading on inside information.
I've always thought the fear of leaks, are in controlling the message, and first to press, gets the biggest stock bump.
I don't know if this is a silver bullet either. However, they are actually going through the process. Like everybody actually doing the work to find a treatment or vaccine ( I would say 'cure', but I know how that triggers 'some people'), I wish them nothing but the best. Good luck. I hope you have landed on the answer.
Tower, I agree. And I'm actually optimistic/hopeful that the reason they rushed the press release, is because we will soon hear of a more successful and promising vaccine development by another company.
-
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52717161
Trump has is taking hydroxychloroquinine as a preventive.
Because he got letters from first responders saying they were taking it. So that was evidence of its positive effect.
You cannot make this stuff up.
-
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52717161
Trump has is taking hydroxychloroquinine as a preventive.
Because he got letters from first responders saying they were taking it. So that was evidence of its positive effect.
You cannot make this stuff up.
he makes up everything. He must have some serious holdings in one of the manufacturers.
Though maybe his staff relabeled his Adderall and Sudafed as "hydroxychloroquine."
It's sad that that in this day in age, when one hears the President say something and you immediately know it's a lie.
-
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52717161
Trump has is taking hydroxychloroquinine as a preventive.
Because he got letters from first responders saying they were taking it. So that was evidence of its positive effect.
You cannot make this stuff up.
Actually, he DOES make this stuff up. There is not even 1 chance in 1,000 that he is taking it.
-
So irresponsible. Yet another example of how his messaging is so awful.
-
Ok could his physician have a licensing issue if he prescribed it because Trump wanted it, despite there being no clinical reason to do so?
-
"Fox News now warning viewers they could die from taking the thing they said was a cure for the disease they said was a hoax."
https://twitter.com/HoarseWisperer/status/1262488963639623680
-
"Fox News now warning viewers they could die from taking the thing they said was a cure for the disease they said was a hoax."
https://twitter.com/HoarseWisperer/status/1262488963639623680
And the True Believers hear crickets.
-
Trump’s staffers are probably giving him white tic tacs and telling him it Hydroxychloroquine.
-
I can think of nobody in America I would rather be taking hydroxychloroquine than Donald F. Trump.
-
In supporting this nonsense the Know Nothings refer to a letter written by the
Association of American Physicians and Surgeons. This outfit is a small group of right wingers who believe , among other things, that being gay reduces life expectancy, and is opposed to medicare. They also believe that there is a connection between abortion and breast cancer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons#Gun_control
-
I can think of nobody in America I would rather be taking hydroxychloroquine than Donald F. Trump.
So you’re a ‘find the silver lining’ guy, eh?
-
Ok could his physician have a licensing issue if he prescribed it because Trump wanted it, despite there being no clinical reason to do so?
Um, he's not taking it. this is just one more case of him covering for his own stupidity.
Remember the sharpie that showed a hurricane was gonna hit Georgia? Well this is exactly the same thing.
-
Trump’s staffers are probably giving him white tic tacs and telling him it Hydroxychloroquine.
Or maybe cheeseburgers. Like he'd know the difference!
-
The new Vaccine Czar Moncef Slaoui, and recent Moderna board member, owns $12.4 million worth of stock options in Moderna.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/05/18/coronavirus-vaccine-adviser-moncef-slaoui-to-divest-12point4-million-of-moderna-holdings.html?__twitter_impression=true
-
Yes. Internet conspiracy theories about Fauci and Gates. Conflict of interest up front and obvious with this guy. Not a word from the tin foil hat clan.
-
As usual it is left vs right, blue vs red, cheering for or against drugs success depending on what side people are on.
Found this article to closely resemble what I see here and out in public.
If you’ve watched the news lately, you might be under the impression that a medicine President Trump touted as a possible game changer against coronavirus — has been debunked and discredited. Two divergent views of the drug, hydroxychloroquine, have emerged: the negative one widely reported in the press and another side you’ve probably heard less about. Never has a discussion about choices of medicine been so laced with political overtones. Today, how politics, money and medicine intersect with coronavirus.
President Trump: Now, it may not work, in which case, hey, it didn’t work.
Sharyl: Studies from China and France sparked early hope that a malaria drug— hydroxychloroquine— might work against coronavirus.
President Trump: And it may work, in which case it’s going to save a lot of lives.
Sharyl: But with President Trump’s first endorsement there was a major media-driven effort to portray hydroxychloroquine as dangerous quackery. The campaign was assisted by an online report in mid-April. It said for sick coronavirus patients treated by the Veterans Administration, hydroxychloroquine did not help and was linked to increased deaths.
Reporter questions at Coronavirus Task Force Briefings: Why are you promoting this drug?
President Trump: I’m not.
Reporter: You come out here every day, right, sir? Talking about the benefits of hydroxychloroquine?
President Trump: I want them to try it.
Reporter: If you’re concerned — this VA study showed that actually more people died that used the drug than didn’t.
Sharyl: Meantime, popular support built around a second medicine: remdesivir. Delivered as an IV fluid in the veins, remdesivir was first developed for Ebola, but never FDA approved. Early tests in coronavirus patients proved no survival benefits but said patients did recover four days faster.
Dr. Anthony Fauci: That the data shows that remdesivir has a clear cut significant positive effect in diminishing the time to recovery. This is really quite important.
Tucker Carlson: Donald Trump is for it.
Sharyl: Camps largely divided along political lines. Many right-leaning media figures sided with hydroxychloroquine while the left-leaning press backed remdesivir. Each accusing the other of ignoring real science.
Dr. William O’Neill: I've never seen science politicized in 40 years of practice.
Sharyl: Cardiologist Dr. William O’Neill is a medical director at the Henry Ford Health System in Detroit, Michigan where they’re studying both remdesivir and hydroxychloroquine.
Some people in the media are treating hydroxychloroquine as if it's something that's being pitched by charlatans, it's dangerous, and that's been debunked and discredited. What do you make of that?
Dr. O’Neill: I think that's very harmful. President Trump touted it early and so then the media set out to disprove and discredit it without any regard for science. I think those of us that are actually involved in the scientific endeavor feel that there is some value to it and it has to be tested.
Sharyl: Dr. O’Neill says he’s prescribed hydroxychloroquine to help numerous coronavirus patients and saw improvement in all of them. He’s less impressed, so far, by remdesivir.
Dr. O’Neill: There's a lot of hype for the drug. I saw the original new England Journal article study and I saw the Lancet study and to me it's just like a big Ho Hum. I just don't see a big benefit to it.
Sharyl: Adding to the drama and confusion, a draft version of a study was accidentally published last month showing remdesivir did not help most coronavirus patients and caused such serious side effects, 18 test subjects were taken off the drug. Gilead, the maker of remdesivir, did not respond to our interview requests but has said it ended the study because it couldn’t find enough volunteers to take part.
On May 1, the FDA seemed to give remdesivir the edge, allowing emergency use for severely ill coronavirus patients at the same time, stepping up cautions against hydroxychloroquine and its sister drug saying they should only be taken in the hospital or as part of a formal study due to reports of “serious heart rhythm problems.”
Dr. O’Neill is now leading a study to find out if hydroxychloroquine can serve a critical role as a medicine to prevent coronavirus. But he says the bad press is making it difficult.
Dr. O’Neill: Now people are scared to use the drug without any scientifically valid concern. We've talked with our colleagues at the University of Minnesota who are doing a similar study, and at the University of Washington. We've treated 400 patients and haven't seen a single adverse event. And what's happening is because of this fake news and fake science, the true scientific efforts are being harmed because people now are so worried that they don't want to enroll in the trials.
Dr. Steven Hatfill: Why are the press running medicine in the United States? This is not right.
Sharyl: Dr. Steven Hatfill is a biomedical scientist who worked on Ebola and studies pandemic responses and medicine. He says there’s an unwarranted campaign against hydroxychloroquine.
Sharyl: You think lives were lost because it wasn't used?
Dr. Hatfill: Yes, lives were lost.
He took hydroxychloroquine years ago for malaria and recently, again, to test to prevent coronavirus.
Sharyl: A preventive would mean, if it were to work, that the fear that this comes back before there's a working vaccine, the fear that we have another shutdown ...
Dr. Hatfill: a return to work ... early detection, return to work. Would I give it as a prophylaxis to everybody? No. But for fit, healthy, critical workers going back to work or high risk populations; chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, ex-smokers, diabetics, obesity ...
Sharyl: Might work for them?
Dr. Hatfill: It might work for them.
Sharyl: A third scientist we spoke to, who says hydroxychloroquine has been unfairly disparaged, is Dr. Jane Orient, head of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons.
How do you account for the difference in medical and scientific opinion about this drug? Because some people seem so certain that it can be a positive benefit to coronavirus patients, maybe even crucial in the early days, whereas some people are convinced it should absolutely not be used.
Dr. Orient: That's a very good question. But the ones who have the most experience are very enthusiastic about the possibilities. And we do have naysayers that we suspect may have a little conflict of interest because they are so enthusiastic about remdesivir, which is a new drug that hasn't been approved for anything. And that so far is showing a really very equivocal or even negative results.
Sharyl: All three scientists criticized that VA report casting doubt on hydroxychloroquine as little more than a list of cases with crucial details missing. It turns out one author of the report received research funding from Gilead, the maker of remdesivir, including a 247-thousand dollar grant in 2018.
Orient: I think we have to look at the money. There's no big profits made in hydroxychloroquine. It's very cheap, easy to manufacture, been around for 70 years. It's generic. Remdesivir is a new drug that could be very expensive and very lucrative if it's ever approved. So I think we really do have to consider there's some financial interest involved here.
Dr. Hatfill: Some of these decisions did not seem to be rational.
And when things, in my opinion that are so clear, the right path to take aren't taken, very often: Money is somehow involved.
Sharyl: When it comes to money, we checked financial ties among experts on the government panel devising coronavirus treatment guidelines— which had the effect of dialing back hydroxychloroquine use and giving an edge to remdesivir.
We found that of 11 members reporting links to a drug company, nine of them named relationships to remdesivir’s maker Gilead. Seven more, including two of the committee’s leaders, have ties to Gilead beyond the 11 months they had to disclose. Two were on Gilead’s advisory board. Others were paid consultants or received research support and honoraria. Nobody reported ties to hydroxychloroquine which is now made by numerous generic manufacturers and is so cheap, analysts say even a spike in sales would not be a financial driver for the companies.
In the end, politics and money aside, at least some scientists aren’t ready to count hydroxychloroquine out of the coronavirus equation. Even if others already have.
Sharyl: Is it possible that it's not one or the other— that hydroxychloroquine could be used in a certain setting, maybe for preventive if you find out that works, and the other drug could be used in other settings?
Dr. O’Neill: No, Absolutely. I think, I think that it's just still very early in this disease process that we're going to learn lot. There's 600 studies that are being done in the United States right now on Covid to see all sorts of different kinds of infections and combinations. We're going to be a lot smarter at the end of the summer. So I think what I would just say to everybody, just hold your powder.
We wanted to hear perspectives from from Dr. Fauci and Gilead, the maker of remdesivir, but they declined our interview requests. We also contacted numerous scientists who have criticized or are skeptical of hydroxycholoroquine, but they also did not want to be interviewed for this report.
-
As usual it is left vs right, blue vs red, cheering for or against drugs success depending on what side people are on.
No one is cheering for the drug not to work. That is an intellecutally lazy statement.
The problem is that it doesn't really work, has bad side effects, and makes it harder for people who actually need the drug to get it. So people touting it are actually causing harm.
And I noticed you didn't link your article that you quoted. Doing a simple look up, of course it is from Sinclair Broadcast Group. And you don't have to look far to see how deep they are in the tank for Trump.
http://fullmeasure.news/news/cover-story/hydroxychloroquine
So yet again, for a lifelong Democrat, you certainly have a deep intimate knowledge of conservative media.
-
As usual it is left vs right, blue vs red, cheering for or against drugs success depending on what side people are on.
You lose all credibility when you claim that people are 'cheering' against the success of any drug based on political affiliation. This virus is blind to political preference, race, color, gender or nationality and it benefits everyone to find a vaccine or effective treatment because we all have loved ones to lose.
If anything, the left vs right and blue vs red disagreements reveal a divide between scientific proof and magical thinking based on Trump's refusal to back down.
-
You lose all credibility when you claim that people are 'cheering' against the success of any drug based on political affiliation.
Chicos lost all credibility long ago with his constant goalpost shifting, intellectual dishonesty, and continual lies.
-
Someone should recommend leeches to Cheeto Jesus
-
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/trumps-hydroxychloroquine-microcosm/611836/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_term=2020-05-19T16%253A19%253A03
"...but the president’s bizarre announcement yesterday that he’s been taking hydroxychloroquine is an excellent microcosm of his handling of the coronavirus pandemic. Trump ignores doctors and scientists. He grabs onto quackish ideas he hears on TV and won’t let go of them. He emphasizes grand symbolic gestures, while declining to take less splashy ones that could be more effective. His statements are a Rorschach test: Some people believe him instantly; others are sure he’s lying. The main question is whether his medication regimen will prove as disastrous as his national coronavirus approach has been."
-
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/trumps-hydroxychloroquine-microcosm/611836/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_term=2020-05-19T16%253A19%253A03
"...but the president’s bizarre announcement yesterday that he’s been taking hydroxychloroquine is an excellent microcosm of his handling of the coronavirus pandemic. Trump ignores doctors and scientists. He grabs onto quackish ideas he hears on TV and won’t let go of them. He emphasizes grand symbolic gestures, while declining to take less splashy ones that could be more effective. His statements are a Rorschach test: Some people believe him instantly; others are sure he’s lying. The main question is whether his medication regimen will prove as disastrous as his national coronavirus approach has been."
That is a marvelous paragraph, one of the best, most succinct narration of the situation.
-
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/trumps-hydroxychloroquine-microcosm/611836/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_term=2020-05-19T16%253A19%253A03
"...but the president’s bizarre announcement yesterday that he’s been taking hydroxychloroquine is an excellent microcosm of his handling of the coronavirus pandemic. Trump ignores doctors and scientists. He grabs onto quackish ideas he hears on TV and won’t let go of them. He emphasizes grand symbolic gestures, while declining to take less splashy ones that could be more effective. His statements are a Rorschach test: Some people believe him instantly; others are sure he’s lying. The main question is whether his medication regimen will prove as disastrous as his national coronavirus approach has been."
He was already hallucinating without taking hydroxychloroquine.
-
You lose all credibility when you claim that people are 'cheering' against the success of any drug based on political affiliation. This virus is blind to political preference, race, color, gender or nationality and it benefits everyone to find a vaccine or effective treatment because we all have loved ones to lose.
If anything, the left vs right and blue vs red disagreements reveal a divide between scientific proof and magical thinking based on Trump's refusal to back down.
I am almost never on Chicos' side but I am here. Everyone on "my side" has become a medical scientist & expert on hydroxychloroquine over the last couple months.
Trump himself was the one to politicize even drugs now. The buck stops with him. But also, the reflexive nature for people to suddenly become scientific experts & acting versed in research, FDA statements, etc on HCQ alone... Many on the left were like a pig to mud when the President decided to politicize HCQ.
HCQ is very widely used for COVID & not just by MDs that have the blue flag flying at home. I for one hope that those patients that just started getting it today will see some benefit.
-
To maybe bring this back to the talk of treatments. Previously I mentioned some of the antibody treatments in the pipeline and thought they would be the first real "cures". I cautioned against one of the US based companies early results, and hinted that the Chinese would lead on this.
Here is one of their early progresses. A neutralizing antibody that is quite promising. Their results are being published in Cell, which is the top scientific journal.
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-scientists-china-drug-pandemic-vaccine.html
-
I am almost never on Chicos' side but I am here. Everyone on "my side" has become a medical scientist & expert on hydroxychloroquine over the last couple months.
Trump himself was the one to politicize even drugs now. The buck stops with him. But also, the reflexive nature for people to suddenly become scientific experts & acting versed in research, FDA statements, etc on HCQ alone... Many on the left were like a pig to mud when the President decided to politicize HCQ.
HCQ is very widely used for COVID & not just by MDs that have the blue flag flying at home. I for one hope that those patients that just started getting it today will see some benefit.
You agree with Chicos that people on the left are “cheering” for this to fail? Wow - that doesn’t reflect anyone on the left that I know. Everyone I know just wants to get back to normal, and do it safely.
I’d love to see it work, but thus far the limited data I have seen (the studies in JAMA and the New England Journal of Medicine) don’t look promising.
-
I think Trump supporters confuse people saying, “even though Trump is championing it, all the evidence suggest this isn’t working” with, “Trump supports this so we would rather see people die and our economy go down the toilet just to have this not work!”
-
I think Trump supporters confuse people saying, “even though Trump is championing it, all the evidence suggest this isn’t working” with, “Trump supports this so we would rather see people die and our economy go down the toilet just to have this not work!”
Yep. They are confused about the difference between “cheering” and “predicting.”
-
No one is cheering for the drug not to work. That is an intellecutally lazy statement.
The problem is that it doesn't really work, has bad side effects, and makes it harder for people who actually need the drug to get it. So people touting it are actually causing harm.
And I noticed you didn't link your article that you quoted. Doing a simple look up, of course it is from Sinclair Broadcast Group. And you don't have to look far to see how deep they are in the tank for Trump.
http://fullmeasure.news/news/cover-story/hydroxychloroquine
So yet again, for a lifelong Democrat, you certainly have a deep intimate knowledge of conservative media.
Yes, there are people that are cheering for it not to work.
The article was shared with me on Facebook. The author is an award-winning journalist formerly from CBS. Five Emmys and the Murrow award. I have no idea what Full Measure is, but appreciated her reaching out to doctors and their viewpoints. I'm well aware of almost every article I see with giddy news from journalists when studies support their beliefs. It was good to see some different points of view, including those from the medical field.
I'm not tribal like you are. If a Democrat only reads liberal news, how does that enlighten someone? You and others blame conservatives for being stupid for only watching Fox News, don't you think they would be more enlightened reading both sides? And doesn't this ultimately confirm what most intelligent people know, that news is bias based on the source? If it wasn't, then there wouldn't be such a thing as liberal news or conservative news. Then again, there are people like Justice Roberts that believe there are no Trump judges or Obama judges, just judges. That is a complete disassociation from reality, but if it makes him sleep well at night.
I'm sorry you believe a lifelong Democrat should only watch MSNBC. It's one of the reasons my wife is no longer a lifelong Democrat because of what she was seeing there. The party has changed as drastically as the Republicans have. We believe in not being drones and only following one new point of view.
-
Yes, there are people that are cheering for it not to work.
The article was shared with me on Facebook. The author is an award-winning journalist formerly from CBS. Five Emmys and the Murrow award. I have no idea what Full Measure is, but appreciated her reaching out to doctors and their viewpoints. I'm well aware of almost every article I see with giddy news from journalists when studies support their beliefs. It was good to see some different points of view, including those from the medical field.
I'm not tribal like you are. If a Democrat only reads liberal news, how does that enlighten someone? You and others blame conservatives for being stupid for only watching Fox News, don't you think they would be more enlightened reading both sides? And doesn't this ultimately confirm what most intelligent people know, that news is bias based on the source? If it wasn't, then there wouldn't be such a thing as liberal news or conservative news. Then again, there are people like Justice Roberts that believe there are no Trump judges or Obama judges, just judges. That is a complete disassociation from reality, but if it makes him sleep well at night.
I'm sorry you believe a lifelong Democrat should only watch MSNBC. It's one of the reasons my wife is no longer a lifelong Democrat because of what she was seeing there. The party has changed as drastically as the Republicans have. We believe in not being drones and only following one new point of view.
So you are a "lifelong Democrat" who claims that he's not tribal? I belong to no political party and have voted Republican multiple times. How is that tribal?
Here is what I am. I am against stupidity. I am against bad science.
You link to things that are anti-intellectual, anti-science nonsense with biased political agendas all over them. And I enjoy picking them apart and exposing them for what they are rather than brainlessly saying "wow this guy has an interesting point" like you do. I think critically. You don't.
-
Again, I am a bleeding heart in principle and a pragmatist in practice. I applaud the leadership of the governors of Ohio, Maryland, Massachusetts. I am a believer in science, leadership, and outcomes
-
So you are a "lifelong Democrat" who claims that he's not tribal? I belong to no political party and have voted Republican multiple times. How is that tribal?
Here is what I am. I am against stupidity. I am against bad science.
You link to things that are anti-intellectual, anti-science nonsense with biased political agendas all over them. And I enjoy picking them apart and exposing them for what they are rather than brainlessly saying "wow this guy has an interesting point" like you do. I think critically. You don't.
Yep. Follow the science - especially the results of peer-reviewed studies.
-
Yep. Follow the science - especially the results of peer-reviewed studies.
Just pray it away
-
Just pray it away
Or shoot it.
-
Or shoot it.
Ya ever try that with murder hornets?
-
Just pray it away
Pence has it covered. Virus will be gone by Monday.
-
You agree with Chicos that people on the left are “cheering” for this to fail? Wow - that doesn’t reflect anyone on the left that I know. Everyone I know just wants to get back to normal, and do it safely.
I’d love to see it work, but thus far the limited data I have seen (the studies in JAMA and the New England Journal of Medicine) don’t look promising.
I spend an hour or so per day lately on Twitter, which is far more than I should. All of the people I follow or interact with are either on the left, or just not political. I've never voted Republican & probably never will.
If you spend any time on Twitter (especially concerning politics) you'll see most "resisters" have developed a scientific expertise on hydroxychloroquine. Now, why would people interested in politics become scientific experts on a drug, suddenly? Why wouldn't they be interested in remdesivir, or ivermectin, or any of these other drugs? They've never even heard of the others let alone read a research study on them. Yet they have read all the research on HCQ & have all manner of medical advice on that drug alone.
That's all I'm agreeing with Chicos on. People on the left (the side I'm on) were so ready to dive head first into making a drug a political debate. Reading research studies, case reports, the whole enchilada, to arm themselves as they do in all political arguments with info they can use while scrapping on Twitter or wherever. "They're for it, so I'm against it".
I'm against Trump but I'm for HCQ. Especially because it is so widely used. People potentially on their death bed as we speak that just received it. I'm hopeful for them & I'm hopeful for better results in upcoming research. There are zero drugs available today for treating COVID that are without serious limitations. Almost all we have is hope.
It takes 2 to tango. The President was thoroughly wrong to start it but the reason it has legs is the widespread interest on the left as well.
-
I spend an hour or so per day lately on Twitter, which is far more than I should. All of the people I follow or interact with are either on the left, or just not political. I've never voted Republican & probably never will.
If you spend any time on Twitter (especially concerning politics) you'll see most "resisters" have developed a scientific expertise on hydroxychloroquine. Now, why would people interested in politics become scientific experts on a drug, suddenly? Why wouldn't they be interested in remdesivir, or ivermectin, or any of these other drugs? They've never even heard of the others let alone read a research study on them. Yet they have read all the research on HCQ & have all manner of medical advice on that drug alone.
That's all I'm agreeing with Chicos on. People on the left (the side I'm on) were so ready to dive head first into making a drug a political debate. Reading research studies, case reports, the whole enchilada, to arm themselves as they do in all political arguments with info they can use while scrapping on Twitter or wherever. "They're for it, so I'm against it".
I'm against Trump but I'm for HCQ. Especially because it is so widely used. People potentially on their death bed as we speak that just received it. I'm hopeful for them & I'm hopeful for better results in upcoming research. There are zero drugs available today for treating COVID that are without serious limitations. Almost all we have is hope.
It takes 2 to tango. The President was thoroughly wrong to start it but the reason it has legs is the widespread interest on the left as well.
That street goes both ways. People are blindly supporting HCQ because it was heavily recommended by the President.
Also, you shouldn't be for or against a drug. You should follow the science wherever it leads.
-
I spend an hour or so per day lately on Twitter, which is far more than I should. All of the people I follow or interact with are either on the left, or just not political. I've never voted Republican & probably never will.
If you spend any time on Twitter (especially concerning politics) you'll see most "resisters" have developed a scientific expertise on hydroxychloroquine. Now, why would people interested in politics become scientific experts on a drug, suddenly? Why wouldn't they be interested in remdesivir, or ivermectin, or any of these other drugs? They've never even heard of the others let alone read a research study on them. Yet they have read all the research on HCQ & have all manner of medical advice on that drug alone.
That's all I'm agreeing with Chicos on. People on the left (the side I'm on) were so ready to dive head first into making a drug a political debate. Reading research studies, case reports, the whole enchilada.
It takes 2 to tango. The President was thoroughly wrong to start it but the reason it has legs is the widespread interest on the left as well.
I agree with this. I’m reading “The Great Influenza” about the 1918 pandemic and there’s no way we’re close to having this figured out when it comes to treatment.
I frame it this way when it comes to the President championing a course of treatment/prevention, it’s irresponsible and possibly fatal. The left should be skeptical but hopeful.
I hope it works but we don’t know. The President needs to defer to those in the hospitals and laboratories. He can’t because he’s a narcissist. If it doesn’t work, he’ll blame someone else and his true believers will be skeptical of anything the real experts say even more.
Treatment and prevention will be an on-going process that will change over and over. The sooner we accept this, the faster we can beat this. There is no victory anywhere at the moment.
-
I have no problem with hydoxychloroqinine. I am all about outcomes. The studies so far are mixed. Some have had some success. Others have shown no difference. Others have been shut down because of negative side effects. Facts.
So. It isn't a panacea. Hyping it as such is dangerous on a couple of levels. One, it simply not a silver bullet and it isn't fair to give that kind of hope. Two, by the White House and its echo chamber hyping it, a so so treatment becomes politicized, which does no one any good.
-
And just like that, Trump said he is ending his Hydroxychloroquine "regimen" .....it's like magic. He just so happened to mention Monday that he's taking it. You would think he dangerously gaslighted the media and country for a few days as a distraction from his 4th late Friday night firing of an Inspector General (and State Department investigation.) Nah, couldn't be that.
-
I spend an hour or so per day lately on Twitter, which is far more than I should. All of the people I follow or interact with are either on the left, or just not political. I've never voted Republican & probably never will.
If you spend any time on Twitter (especially concerning politics) you'll see most "resisters" have developed a scientific expertise on hydroxychloroquine. Now, why would people interested in politics become scientific experts on a drug, suddenly? Why wouldn't they be interested in remdesivir, or ivermectin, or any of these other drugs? They've never even heard of the others let alone read a research study on them. Yet they have read all the research on HCQ & have all manner of medical advice on that drug alone.
That's all I'm agreeing with Chicos on. People on the left (the side I'm on) were so ready to dive head first into making a drug a political debate. Reading research studies, case reports, the whole enchilada, to arm themselves as they do in all political arguments with info they can use while scrapping on Twitter or wherever. "They're for it, so I'm against it".
I'm against Trump but I'm for HCQ. Especially because it is so widely used. People potentially on their death bed as we speak that just received it. I'm hopeful for them & I'm hopeful for better results in upcoming research. There are zero drugs available today for treating COVID that are without serious limitations. Almost all we have is hope.
It takes 2 to tango. The President was thoroughly wrong to start it but the reason it has legs is the widespread interest on the left as well.
Maybe the underlined is the difference - I don't spend any time on Twitter. From what I saw during a brief use of it a few years back, it's mostly full of knee-jerk reactions that represent the true extremes of any debate. Kind of like the primal scream when you stub your toe on a piece of furniture before you calm down a few seconds later.
So yeah, I get why your perspective that people are "cheering" for HQC to fail might be different from mine.
-
Maybe the underlined is the difference - I don't spend any time on Twitter. From what I saw during a brief use of it a few years back, it's mostly full of knee-jerk reactions that represent the true extremes of any debate. Kind of like the primal scream when you stub your toe on a piece of furniture before you calm down a few seconds later.
So yeah, I get why your perspective that people are "cheering" for HQC to fail might be different from mine.
That is the PERFECT description of the twittersphere.
-
Twitter is like the game threads here. A whole lot of knee jerk dumb.
Edit. That is an unfair broad brush generalization. Shame on me.
Some Twitter is like some game threads here.
-
Twitter is the yahoo article comments section moved to an open platform.
-
Twitter is like the game threads here. A whole lot of knee jerk dumb.
Edit. That is an unfair broad brush generalization. Shame on me.
Some Twitter is like some game threads here.
Nah, you were good with your first description.
-
Twitter is the yahoo article comments section moved to an open platform.
Yes!
-
Twitter is the yahoo article comments section moved to an open platform.
Plus porn.
-
Plus porn.
Best of both worlds, eh?
-
Twitter is the yahoo article comments section moved to an open platform.
100%
-
If you spend any time on Twitter (especially concerning politics) you'll see most "resisters" have developed a scientific expertise on hydroxychloroquine. Now, why would people interested in politics become scientific experts on a drug, suddenly? Why wouldn't they be interested in remdesivir, or ivermectin, or any of these other drugs? They've never even heard of the others let alone read a research study on them. Yet they have read all the research on HCQ & have all manner of medical advice on that drug alone.
I'm against Trump but I'm for HCQ.
I think you are seeing what you want to see on this end. As you say, you are for HCQ, which means you will be irked by naysayers, and notice that more. Where this started, was Trump disregarded science, and disregarded all other treatments, like remdesivir, to go all in on HCQ, because Foxnews liked it.
It became, all HCQ, wall-to-wall on every right-wing site. Most that I know that usually vote democratic, were irritated by him pushing a drug with little evidence to support it, while there were others far more promising. This is especially true for scientists, because they understand and read the raw data and understand it was potentially dangerous. They did research the others, and used it as a, "why not these argument." You can go back in this thread, and see me emphasizing that I think Remdesivir has a far higher likelihood of success. But HCQ became a rallying cry of the right.
They are/were interested in the other drugs. But no one disagrees with them being good. You don't see Trump talking about Remdesivir, or other drugs, but he is still pushing HCQ. So, that becomes a point of contention and is what people focus on.
A good example. How often do you see people on the right mention Ivermectin. It actually does have stronger evidence to support it than HCQ, and has a better safety profile? It doesn't even get brought up ever, because Trump is all in on HCQ.
Trump put HCQ in the spotlight. His base flocked to it as a rallying cry, pushing doctor's to prescribe it against FDA regulations, and stopping people who do need the drug from getting it. It was causing harm in some patients, yet still being pushed from the WH. People needed to speak up on it.
And almost all I know on the left. Say everything should be tested in controlled clinical trials. And be thrilled if HCQ turned out to be a cure. But as it stands right now, there isn't data to support it, so as Tower says...keep on scienceing.
-
And just like that, Trump said he is ending his Hydroxychloroquine "regimen" .....it's like magic. He just so happened to mention Monday that he's taking it. You would think he dangerously gaslighted the media and country for a few days as a distraction from his 4th late Friday night firing of an Inspector General (and State Department investigation.) Nah, couldn't be that.
Why stop? I mean ... What the hell does he have to lose?
-
And just like that, Trump said he is ending his Hydroxychloroquine "regimen" .....it's like magic. He just so happened to mention Monday that he's taking it. You would think he dangerously gaslighted the media and country for a few days as a distraction from his 4th late Friday night firing of an Inspector General (and State Department investigation.) Nah, couldn't be that.
I said at the time that there was 0% chance he was taking it.
It was the "sharpie around Georgia" CYA.
-
Study:
Hydroxychloroquine combined with antibiotic has 45% increased risk of death and 411% increased risk of serious heart arrythmias.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/22/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-study/#click=https://t.co/IFL3g7rylo
-
One study. There are others. Bottom line for me; there are other treatments I would want my doctor to use on me.
-
One study. There are others. Bottom line for me; there are other treatments I would want my doctor to use on me.
It had 96,000 COVID-19 patients at 671 hospitals in the study.
-
Study:
Hydroxychloroquine combined with antibiotic has 45% increased risk of death and 411% increased risk of serious heart arrythmias.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/22/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-study/#click=https://t.co/IFL3g7rylo
Fake news, everyone. I would ask all Trump supporters to use this drug to show your support of the president.
-
Study:
Hydroxychloroquine combined with antibiotic has 45% increased risk of death and 411% increased risk of serious heart arrythmias.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/22/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-study/#click=https://t.co/IFL3g7rylo
If he was taking it, I'd bet my butt this is whey he stopped--heart issues or other side effects. Pelosi was right, obesity is a big ol' co-morbidity.
-
Might be time to rename this thread to “Potential Treatments,” since HCQ as a treatment for COVID is likely to go the way of Thalidomide as a treatment for insomnia.
-
Might be time to rename this thread to “Potential Treatments,” since HCQ as a treatment for COVID is likely to go the way of Thalidomide as a treatment for insomnia.
Until rocket says it's off the table, this thread is open.
-
Until rocket says it's off the table, this thread is open.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/xThtar0e9kO3WkwQ1O/giphy.gif)
-
Until rocket says it's off the table, this thread is open.
;D
-
It had 96,000 COVID-19 patients at 671 hospitals in the study.
But was it a double blind, peer reviewed, controlled study? If not it means nothing.
-
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/remdesivir-study-finally-out-drug-only-helped-those-oxygen-finds-mortality-too-high (http://ttps://www.zerohedge.com/technology/remdesivir-study-finally-out-drug-only-helped-those-oxygen-finds-mortality-too-high)
-
(https://media.giphy.com/media/xThtar0e9kO3WkwQ1O/giphy.gif)
Hards with the reach around.
-
But was it a double blind, peer reviewed, controlled study? If not it means nothing.
Did you read the article?
The sheer size of the study is what has concerned many scientists and doctors across the country 96,000 patients. And, the results were similar to the 13 double blind controlled studies also mentioned in the article including the NIH last month.
-
Until Fox News tells rocket says it's off the table, this thread is open.
-
Hards with the reach around.
You interested in seconds?
-
https://www.aol.com/cannabis-more-effective-preventing-treating-184301448.html
I'm in.
-
But was it a double blind, peer reviewed, controlled study? If not it means nothing.
I’ll defer to medical professionals, but my common sense hat says that is the gold standard to prove efficacy. The standard to deem something ineffective or unsafe is much lower (thankfully for all of us).
-
I’ll defer to medical professionals, but my common sense hat says that is the gold standard to prove efficacy. The standard to deem something ineffective or unsafe is much lower (thankfully for all of us).
Your common sense hat is pretty good.
A double-blind, placebo-controlled trial is indeed the gold standard for proving safety and efficacy. However observational studies (especially one with as many patients as this one had) can give us a wealth of information, which often tells us that more definitive studies might not be worth the time, effort and cost.
I suspect they will finish any ongoing studies given the high stakes but I am far more optimistic about other potential treatments, like convalescent plasma.
-
https://www.aol.com/cannabis-more-effective-preventing-treating-184301448.html
I'm in.
What the hell do any of us have to lose?!?!?!
-
What the hell do any of us have to lose?!?!?!
Probably should make sure grocery stores have plenty of Cheetos in stock before we publicize this one....
-
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/26/france-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirs-281740
France is even shutting down use now.
-
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/26/france-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirs-281740
France is even shutting down use now.
France always retreats.
-
France always retreats.
I know its teal, and at the risk of going off topic... the French are not the cheese-eating surrender monkeys that they get made out to be. ;D
-
I know its teal, and at the risk of going off topic... the French are not the cheese-eating surrender monkeys that they get made out to be. ;D
Fake news
-
I know its teal, and at the risk of going off topic... the French are not the cheese-eating surrender monkeys that they get made out to be. ;D
I know. Humor. Hence the teal.
-
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being "cheese eating" either.
-
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fauci-hydroxychloroquine-not-effective-against-142215234.html
And.... hydroxychloroquine takes another hit.
-
France hasn't had a great last century or so in the war department...but without them we would probably be singing God Save the Queen.
-
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fauci-hydroxychloroquine-not-effective-against-142215234.html
And.... hydroxychloroquine takes another hit.
rocket should be along any time now to poop on "experts".
-
rocket should be along any time now to poop on "experts".
This is why treatment plans and tests need to be left to the medical experts and not touted or dismissed by politicians and the media. Resources, time and energy were wasted because President Pandemic pushed it. The longer this goes, the madder I get about all his press conferences.
-
This is why treatment plans and tests need to be left to the medical experts and not touted or dismissed by politicians and the media. Resources, time and energy were wasted because President Pandemic pushed it. The longer this goes, the madder I get about all his press conferences.
You can draw a straight line from the sketchy French doctor to Dr. "Miracle Cure" Oz to Hannity, Ingraham and the other flying monkeys at Fox to Agent Orange's weird anus shaped mouth. But hey, anyone that said we should maybe see if it actually worked first was shouted down by the Know Nothing chorus.
-
Easy to take shots. Really easy. Like, thank you for making it so easy. And easy to mock the easily swayed. But...
The bad news is that one more drug doesn't work. This isn't something to celebrate. A bunch of people were caught up in false hope and needlessly used a drug that didn't work and may have even done more harm. So, crap.
Next man (drug) up.
Give me antibody laced plasma.
-
Easy to take shots. Really easy. Like, thank you for making it so easy. And easy to mock the easily swayed. But...
The bad news is that one more drug doesn't work. This isn't something to celebrate. A bunch of people were caught up in false hope and needlessly used a drug that didn't work and may have even done more harm. So, crap.
Next man (drug) up.
Give me antibody laced plasma.
I love your more measured tone and your compassion, tower.
-
Easy to take shots. Really easy. Like, thank you for making it so easy. And easy to mock the easily swayed. But...
The bad news is that one more drug doesn't work. This isn't something to celebrate. A bunch of people were caught up in false hope and needlessly used a drug that didn't work and may have even done more harm. So, crap.
Next man (drug) up.
Give me antibody laced plasma.
Who is celebrating it? I am disgusted by the whole charade.
-
Give me antibody laced plasma.
At least in the short run, that seems to be the most promising treatment. The key question is whether enough recovered patients volunteer to put a real dent in this thing. Fingers crossed.
-
At least in the short run, that seems to be the most promising treatment. The key question is whether enough recovered patients volunteer to put a real dent in this thing. Fingers crossed.
Some news on the antibody front. Rockefeller identifying the most effective antibodies and moving them forward as a treatment.
https://www.rockefeller.edu/news/28079-covid19-antibody-response/
-
Some news on the antibody front. Rockefeller identifying the most effective antibodies and moving them forward as a treatment.
https://www.rockefeller.edu/news/28079-covid19-antibody-response/
Sounds promising.
-
Your friend hydroxy isn’t down and out yet.
https://academic.oup.com/aje/advance-article/doi/10.1093/aje/kwaa093/5847586
-
Your friend hydroxy isn’t down and out yet.
https://academic.oup.com/aje/advance-article/doi/10.1093/aje/kwaa093/5847586
From the department of chronic disease epidemiology at frickin Yale and published in the American Journal of Epidemiology. But I’m sure somehow they’ve also been corrupted by orange bad man so I should just listen to a bunch of nutty scoopers and move on. Science has been settled.
-
From the department of chronic disease epidemiology at frickin Yale and published in the American Journal of Epidemiology. But I’m sure somehow they’ve also been corrupted by orange bad man so I should just listen to a bunch of nutty scoopers and move on. Science has been settled.
The science hasn’t been settled. It likely won’t be for awhile. It’s a very fluid situation and I’d admire all the men and women working long, hard hours to try and beat this thing. Their jobs would be a lot easier if the politicians let them work without making statements as fact.
I’d also caution against coming to scoop to get your COVID-19 information. It’s a discussion spot, not a spot with anyone doing research or publishing reports. It’s actually a basketball fan site with a section dedicated to the discussion of a worldwide pandemic that has killed over 100,000 in the United States and sickened many more.
-
The science hasn’t been settled. It likely won’t be for awhile. It’s a very fluid situation and I’d admire all the men and women working long, hard hours to try and beat this thing. Their jobs would be a lot easier if the politicians let them work without making statements as fact.
I’d also caution against coming to scoop to get your COVID-19 information. It’s a discussion spot, not a spot with anyone doing research or publishing reports. It’s actually a basketball fan site with a section dedicated to the discussion of a worldwide pandemic that has killed over 100,000 in the United States and sickened many more.
Really??? If only I would have known this months ago, a basketball fan site you say?
And by politicians making statements as facts, I assume you mean those that both have supported the continued look and those that have tried to shut down hydroxy studies.
-
Really??? If only I would have known this months ago, a basketball fan site you say?
And by politicians making statements as facts, I assume you mean those that both have supported the continued look and those that have tried to shut down hydroxy studies.
Yes. Both sides should support aggressive research on any possible treatments or cures
-
Yes. Both sides should support aggressive research on any possible treatments or cures
So when you said yesterday that time, money, and resources were wasted looking into Hydroxy because ORANGE BAD MAN touted the possibility of it working you were just spouting off and now after having a chance to sleep on that hot take you instead have done a complete 180 and support the continued time, money, and resources needed to look into it? I can’t keep up.
Would love to hear TSmith’s take on this new study cause after being called a no nothing worshipper of the anus shaped mouth President I was really starting to second guess who I might vote for in the fall.
-
So when you said yesterday that time, money, and resources were wasted looking into Hydroxy because ORANGE BAD MAN touted the possibility of it working you were just spouting off and now after having a chance to sleep on that hot take you instead have done a complete 180 and support the continued time, money, and resources needed to look into it? I can’t keep up.
Would love to hear TSmith’s take on this new study cause after being called a no nothing worshipper of the anus shaped mouth President I was really starting to second guess who I might vote for in the fall.
Time, money and resources were wasted. Hyrdoxy is used for other medical conditions. People began asking and looking for prescriptions without any knowledge it may work. The link you provided is a study that says it should be used in high-risk, symptomatic patients. That doesn’t include Karen in Brookfield who is neither but because President Pandemic kept touting it, she went looking for it
-
Time, money and resources were wasted. Hyrdoxy is used for other medical conditions. People began asking and looking for prescriptions without any knowledge it may work. The link you provided is a study that says it should be used in high-risk, symptomatic patients. That doesn’t include Karen in Brookfield who is neither but because President Pandemic kept touting it, she went looking for it
“We have a solution, imperfect, to attempt to deal with the disease. We have to let physicians employing good clinical judgement use it and informed patients choose it. There is a small chance that it may not work. But the urgency demands that we at least start to take that risk and evaluate what happens, and if our situation does not improve we can stop it.”
And if Karen in Brookfield is interested in getting a prescription that she thinks can help her she should meet with her doctor to discuss the pros/cons and potential risks given her health history. You know like you would do for any other new prescription you would take.
-
Your friend hydroxy isn’t down and out yet.
https://academic.oup.com/aje/advance-article/doi/10.1093/aje/kwaa093/5847586
You are aware that is simply an online academic "magazine" publishing the opinion of one epidemiologist, right?
It's no different than any of the similar content providers publishing experts' opinion pieces either pro or con HQ or any drug, and it certainly isn't "proof" of anything.
HQ has been studied quite a bit now, and there is absolutely no evidence that it is a "game-changer" -- as your so-called ORANGE BAD MAN kept trying to claim. Scientists are not yet sure the best way to use it regarding this coronavirus, or even if they should use it at all.
But keep trying to "prove" it is wonderful in your desperate attempt to legitimize the scientific chops of President Lysol Injector. I especially liked you immediately following your first post -- which obviously was looking for a fight -- with a second post aimed at stoking even more divisiveness on the issue.
-
You are aware that is simply an online academic "magazine" publishing the opinion of one epidemiologist, right?
It's no different than any of the similar content providers publishing experts' opinion pieces either pro or con HQ or any drug, and it certainly isn't "proof" of anything.
HQ has been studied quite a bit now, and there is absolutely no evidence that it is a "game-changer" -- as your so-called ORANGE BAD MAN kept trying to claim. Scientists are not yet sure the best way to use it regarding this coronavirus, or even if they should use it at all.
But keep trying to "prove" it is wonderful in your desperate attempt to legitimize the scientific chops of President Lysol Injector. I especially liked you immediately following your first post -- which obviously was looking for a fight -- with a second post aimed at stoking even more divisiveness on the issue.
And you calling him President Pandemic along with 99% of your posts are aimed at bridging the divide right?
And Trumps opinion that this “could” be a game changer falls in line with the thoughts of the epidemiology department at Yale so to try and spin Trump’s encouragement/excitement of the possibility of it working to help (not cure) as a bad thing is partisan and counterproductive imo.
-
And you calling him President Pandemic along with 99% of your posts are aimed at bridging the divide right?
And Trumps opinion that this “could” be a game changer falls in line with the thoughts of the epidemiology department at Yale so to try and spin Trump’s encouragement/excitement of the possibility of it working to help (not cure) as a bad thing is partisan and counterproductive imo.
One professor = entire epidemiology department?
-
So when you said yesterday that time, money, and resources were wasted looking into Hydroxy because ORANGE BAD MAN touted the possibility of it working you were just spouting off and now after having a chance to sleep on that hot take you instead have done a complete 180 and support the continued time, money, and resources needed to look into it? I can’t keep up.
Would love to hear TSmith’s take on this new study cause after being called a no nothing worshipper of the anus shaped mouth President I was really starting to second guess who I might vote for in the fall.
Yo, who pissed in your cheerios this morning?
-
So when you said yesterday that time, money, and resources were wasted looking into Hydroxy because ORANGE BAD MAN touted the possibility of it working you were just spouting off and now after having a chance to sleep on that hot take you instead have done a complete 180 and support the continued time, money, and resources needed to look into it? I can’t keep up.
Would love to hear TSmith’s take on this new study cause after being called a no nothing worshipper of the anus shaped mouth President I was really starting to second guess who I might vote for in the fall.
I have consistently said it would be great if this (or any other) treatment actually works to save lives, but before touting it as the miracle cure or giving it willy nilly to everyone we should test to see if it actually works. Here is the very first post I made on the subject, which was well after Fox/Trump began touting it:
Let's hope that this drug actually works, it would save a lot of lives. However, there are a few headscratchers in the account. First, he talks about great difficulty breathing, but nowhere does it say he was even on a ventilator, so it doesn't sound as if his case was serious enough to require that step. There is a longer version of this story that I saw where he talks about being on death's door, unable to breathe, but also calling various doctors and specialists personally to get approval for taking the drug. It just doesn't fully add up.
Best case, I think, is this could help with milder cases or to reduce the effects of COVID-19. So far, at least, the medical community doesn't think it is a miracle cure though.
But again this was turned into a divisive wedge issue and anyone that said, "hey, shouldn't we test to see if this actually works first?" was pilloried as just wanting to see Trump fail. Rick Bright was fired for resisting efforts to take taxpayer dollars and shovel them to politically connected companies for an unproven drug. The anti-science Know Nothings were going to pour money and resources into this no matter what.
As far as your links, I'll let people with more science backgrounds like Goo and forgetful weigh in. I reiterate, if this or any other drug works, it would be great, but the results to date from other studies and observations have been poor.
As to your description of the Trump, I think "ORANGE" and "BAD" are accurate adjectives, but I'm not sure about "MAN".
P.S. I am under no illusion that anything I or anyone else says will sway your vote. I've been around the interwebs too long to think that is a possibility and seen that verifiable facts don't really have any power of persuasion. I give Trump credit for being absolutely accurate about one thing: he really could shoot somebody on 5th Avenue and not lose a single vote.
-
There are frequently dissenting voices in the battle for drug approvals or proposed uses, so the expectation of complete unanimity is futile. The best we can do is go with the overwhelming opinion of the medical community. At this point, that opinion is that the risks of HCQ far outweigh the benefits for COVID.
If that changes, it changes. But it needs to change if and when the data - not the voice of one person - drives the change.
-
One professor = entire epidemiology department?
Well some have treated one voice in Fauci as the voice of the entire medical community so sure 🤷♂️
-
Yo, who pissed in your cheerios this morning?
So because I interrupted your party of putting down Trump and anyone who supports him means someone pissed in my Cheerios.
Who pisses in your Cheerios every day?
-
Well some have treated one voice in Fauci as the voice of the entire medical community so sure 🤷♂️
Fauci who is the head of NIAID vs a professor in the epidemiology department.
There's a key word difference in their titles. It's dishonest of you To say that a professor speaks for an entire department and I'd expect better of a marquette affiliated individual.
-
So because I interrupted your party of putting down Trump and anyone who supports him means someone pissed in my Cheerios.
Who pisses in your Cheerios every day?
I'm suggesting someone pissed in your cheerios because your jimmies are clearly rustled. You're really going to let MU82, TSmith34, and Jockey get under your skin?
Lighten up, Francis.
-
And you calling him President Pandemic along with 99% of your posts are aimed at bridging the divide right?
And Trumps opinion that this “could” be a game changer falls in line with the thoughts of the epidemiology department at Yale so to try and spin Trump’s encouragement/excitement of the possibility of it working to help (not cure) as a bad thing is partisan and counterproductive imo.
Everything your emperor does is political or has an ulterior motive, usually to glorify and/or enrich himself.
Enjoy bending the knee and kissing his ring.
-
Your friend hydroxy isn’t down and out yet.
https://academic.oup.com/aje/advance-article/doi/10.1093/aje/kwaa093/5847586
Quite frankly, that article is trash. It essentially reads as "what do you have to lose". It cites the two French studies, done in a hospital setting, as evidence for outpatient care.
No studies have been able to replicate the French studies, and individuals who have reviewed the methodology used have highlighted significant design flaws that limit validity and reproducibility. The studies have been refuted.
He then cites Zalenko, and the article highlights that his 1450 patients were not tested for COVID, they were diagnosed based on symptoms. So they don't even know if the people he was treating had COVID, or were even exposed to it. It has been noted elsewhere, that there haven't even been 1450 COVID patients in Zalenko's entire treatment area. Of his group around 1000 resolved symptoms quickly (yeah, because they didn't have COVID). Anyone that cites Zalenko's work is being academically dishonest.
He then cites a Brazil study that had to be stopped because of patients dying from treatment...he casually leaves this aspect out when his whole story is "what have you got to lose".
Its trash, which is why it is published as an opinion piece.
-
I once worked with a clinical investigator who was studying a drug that had shown limited efficacy with a serious illness, but also had some very serious side effects. He had gotten word from the company that FDA was likely to disapprove the application, and came to ask me for advice on how he might get them to change their minds. After listening to the limited efficacy data and the frightening list and incidence of side effects, I asked him: "If your mom had this condition, would you recommend the drug to her?" He paused, got a subdued look on his face, and walked out. True story. I have similar stories from my years on an IRB (the ethical review board for clinical research), where there was disagreement on whether to approve a study with troubling preliminary information, and that question often stopped people in their tracks.
So I'm curious if any of the people who still support the use of HCQ are actually taking it, as opposed to just using it as a talking point. Heck, even POTUS claims to have stopped using it...if he was ever really using it at all.
Anyone?
-
Quite frankly, that article is trash. It essentially reads as "what do you have to lose". It cites the two French studies, done in a hospital setting, as evidence for outpatient care.
No studies have been able to replicate the French studies, and individuals who have reviewed the methodology used have highlighted significant design flaws that limit validity and reproducibility. The studies have been refuted.
He then cites Zalenko, and the article highlights that his 1450 patients were not tested for COVID, they were diagnosed based on symptoms. So they don't even know if the people he was treating had COVID, or were even exposed to it. It has been noted elsewhere, that there haven't even been 1450 COVID patients in Zalenko's entire treatment area. Of his group around 1000 resolved symptoms quickly (yeah, because they didn't have COVID). Anyone that cites Zalenko's work is being academically dishonest.
He then cites a Brazil study that had to be stopped because of patients dying from treatment...he casually leaves this aspect out when his whole story is "what have you got to lose".
Its trash, which is why it is published as an opinion piece.
I'm curious Pace, does this change your view at all?
-
I once worked with a clinical investigator who was studying a drug that had shown limited efficacy with a serious illness, but also had some very serious side effects. He had gotten word from the company that FDA was likely to disapprove the application, and came to ask me for advice on how he might get them to change their minds. After listening to the limited efficacy data and the frightening list and incidence of side effects, I asked him: "If your mom had this condition, would you recommend the drug to her?" He paused, got a subdued look on his face, and walked out. True story. I have similar stories from my years on an IRB (the ethical review board for clinical research), where there was disagreement on whether to approve a study with troubling preliminary information, and that question often stopped people in their tracks.
So I'm curious if any of the people who still support the use of HCQ are actually taking it, as opposed to just using it as a talking point. Heck, even POTUS claims to have stopped using it...if he was ever really using it at all.
Anyone?
In my experience there are 3-things that can get many extremely educated and intelligent individuals to throw out all reason and logic: pride, religion, and politics.
When it comes the HCQ, two of those are at play pride and politics. I've discussed HCQ with some people I consider extremely intelligent, that advocate they would still take it. They agree that the studies say it shouldn't be taken, but quickly retort, "can you really trust those studies, they are clearly biased." They are unable to point to what is "clearly biased." It is simply that it disagrees with their pride and politics.
Early in my career I learned that during peer review, you should always read your reviews, then wait several days before starting to address them. Time to let the "pride" calm down, and rationally think through what they said. Usually you realize that they aren't "out to get you" but that you have flaws that need to be addressed. Pride is a powerful beast.
The other thing I learned early in my career. Is that if you are working in uncharted territory, where you are the first breaking new ground and making discoveries, you are going to get some things wrong. There are two ways to proceed: Welcome all data as progress towards a greater understanding. Accept criticism and realize that it is ok to be wrong, and that is part of scientific progress. The other is to attack all those who disagree with you in defense of your pride. The latter stifles science.
I try to teach all students this important fact in one of my courses, where we review literature, including an early paper by a Nobel Prize winner, whom I know very well. Brilliant man, but his paper is absolutely 100% wrong. Based on modern approaches, his errors seem obvious, but with the tools of his day, very hard to discover the error. I ask my students, who don't really know who the individual is, and only know of the modern tools, "was he doing bad science?" Without a doubt, they all say yes. I then inform them of who he is, and that his discovery, although his idea was wrong, pioneered an extremely important area of research, and opened doors that would have been closed to everyone if he didn't publish that paper. He's not embarrassed at all about being incorrect, because for him, the data speaks for itself.
tl,dr: Pride and politics are more powerful than reason in many people.
-
I have consistently said it would be great if this (or any other) treatment actually works to save lives, but before touting it as the miracle cure or giving it willy nilly to everyone we should test to see if it actually works. Here is the very first post I made on the subject, which was well after Fox/Trump began touting it:
But again this was turned into a divisive wedge issue and anyone that said, "hey, shouldn't we test to see if this actually works first?" was pilloried as just wanting to see Trump fail. Rick Bright was fired for resisting efforts to take taxpayer dollars and shovel them to politically connected companies for an unproven drug. The anti-science Know Nothings were going to pour money and resources into this no matter what.
As far as your links, I'll let people with more science backgrounds like Goo and forgetful weigh in. I reiterate, if this or any other drug works, it would be great, but the results to date from other studies and observations have been poor.
As to your description of the Trump, I think "ORANGE" and "BAD" are accurate adjectives, but I'm not sure about "MAN".
P.S. I am under no illusion that anything I or anyone else says will sway your vote. I've been around the interwebs too long to think that is a possibility and seen that verifiable facts don't really have any power of persuasion. I give Trump credit for being absolutely accurate about one thing: he really could shoot somebody on 5th Avenue and not lose a single vote.
Man, totally agree with your wisdom. I'm converted to your cause. Your theories intrigue me, i wish to subscribe to your journal.
-
Man, totally agree with your wisdom. I'm converted to your cause. Your theories intrigue me, i wish to subscribe to your journal.
I am under no illusion that anything I or anyone else says will sway your vote. I've been around the interwebs too long to think that is a possibility and seen that verifiable facts don't really have any power of persuasion. I give Trump credit for being absolutely accurate about one thing: he really could shoot somebody on 5th Avenue and not lose a single vote.
-
Right on, brother! I'm on your side now!
-
I'm curious Pace, does this change your view at all?
I’d be interested to hear what you think my view is on hydroxy? Cause I’ve been pretty consistent all along that I’m cheering for it to work and I’m holding out hope there’s still a spot for it in keeping things at bay. So no that hasn’t changed.
-
I’d be interested to hear what you think my view is on hydroxy? Cause I’ve been pretty consistent all along that I’m cheering for it to work and I’m holding out hope there’s still a spot for it in keeping things at bay. So no that hasn’t changed.
there's holding out hope and then there's ignoring the vast majority of the medical community searching for fringe opinions to hang onto...
-
Fauci who is the head of NIAID vs a professor in the epidemiology department.
There's a key word difference in their titles. It's dishonest of you To say that a professor speaks for an entire department and I'd expect better of a marquette affiliated individual.
I have no affiliation to Marquette. Until this morning I had no idea this was a mubb board with a side discussion about covid.
-
I have no affiliation to Marquette. Until this morning I had no idea this was a mubb board with a side discussion about covid.
I wish this were true given your dishonest attempt to give more authority To a fringe opinion by labeling it as the opinion of Yale. It's not true though :(
-
I wish this were true given your dishonest attempt to give more authority To a fringe opinion by labeling it as the opinion of Yale. It's not true though :(
So sad right
-
In my experience there are 3-things that can get many extremely educated and intelligent individuals to throw out all reason and logic: pride, religion, and politics.
When it comes the HCQ, two of those are at play pride and politics. I've discussed HCQ with some people I consider extremely intelligent, that advocate they would still take it. They agree that the studies say it shouldn't be taken, but quickly retort, "can you really trust those studies, they are clearly biased." They are unable to point to what is "clearly biased." It is simply that it disagrees with their pride and politics.
Early in my career I learned that during peer review, you should always read your reviews, then wait several days before starting to address them. Time to let the "pride" calm down, and rationally think through what they said. Usually you realize that they aren't "out to get you" but that you have flaws that need to be addressed. Pride is a powerful beast.
The other thing I learned early in my career. Is that if you are working in uncharted territory, where you are the first breaking new ground and making discoveries, you are going to get some things wrong. There are two ways to proceed: Welcome all data as progress towards a greater understanding. Accept criticism and realize that it is ok to be wrong, and that is part of scientific progress. The other is to attack all those who disagree with you in defense of your pride. The latter stifles science.
I try to teach all students this important fact in one of my courses, where we review literature, including an early paper by a Nobel Prize winner, whom I know very well. Brilliant man, but his paper is absolutely 100% wrong. Based on modern approaches, his errors seem obvious, but with the tools of his day, very hard to discover the error. I ask my students, who don't really know who the individual is, and only know of the modern tools, "was he doing bad science?" Without a doubt, they all say yes. I then inform them of who he is, and that his discovery, although his idea was wrong, pioneered an extremely important area of research, and opened doors that would have been closed to everyone if he didn't publish that paper. He's not embarrassed at all about being incorrect, because for him, the data speaks for itself.
tl,dr: Pride and politics are more powerful than reason in many people.
Very well said, and a great lesson for your students.
Your post reminded me of a quote: "A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new." Einstein.
-
Right on, brother! I'm on your side now!
God, I hope not
-
God, I hope not
Your persuasion powers are very effective.
-
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/covid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine?__twitter_impression=true
What a mess this whole things has become. Now appears there are signs of significant data errors in the Lancet study and a couple others that were used as evidence to shut down hydroxy trials.
I no longer have the energy to argue for or against the use of this drug but am incredibly discouraged by the general discourse and “unbiased“ efforts of our medical community in giving the public honest analysis and hope that they’re working to find a fix to this virus
-
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/covid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine?__twitter_impression=true
What a mess this whole things has become. Now appears there are signs of significant data errors in the Lancet study and a couple others that were used as evidence to shut down hydroxy trials.
I no longer have the energy to argue for or against the use of this drug but am incredibly discouraged by the general discourse and “unbiased“ efforts of our medical community in giving the public honest analysis and hope that they’re working to find a fix to this virus
From the article you just linked:
“An independent data audit is currently underway and we trust that this review, which should be completed within the next week, will tell us more about the status of the findings reported in the paper by Mandeep Mehra and colleagues.”
-
From the article you just linked:
“An independent data audit is currently underway and we trust that this review, which should be completed within the next week, will tell us more about the status of the findings reported in the paper by Mandeep Mehra and colleagues.”
Right, but the horse has left the barn at this point. People have shut down trials and the public has made up there mind based off questionable data that was peer reviewed but now appears to be questionable at best.
Just feel like before this stuff gets published this review should have been done.
-
Right, but the horse has left the barn at this point. People have shut down trials and the public has made up there mind based off questionable data that was peer reviewed but now appears to be questionable at best.
Just feel like before this stuff gets published this review should have been done.
It looks like some of the data was categorized incorrectly per region. I'm not sure that's enough, even on the face of it, to call the results into question.
-
Right, but the horse has left the barn at this point. People have shut down trials and the public has made up there mind based off questionable data that was peer reviewed but now appears to be questionable at best.
Just feel like before this stuff gets published this review should have been done.
Pace I heard a stat yesterday that is apt here. This drug was used heavily in NYC—60% got it was the stat quoted. NYC was not a great outcome From a death perspective.
Conversely Drs have quickly pivoted treatment to apply more blood thinners. Despite the research not yet published. Because it is improving outcomes.
If this was a great treatment we likely would have doctors speaking out and using it heavier. It’s just not the case. No ones fault, we move forward.
-
https://investor.lilly.com/news-releases/news-release-details/lilly-begins-worlds-first-study-potential-covid-19-antibody
-
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/covid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine?__twitter_impression=true
What a mess this whole things has become. Now appears there are signs of significant data errors in the Lancet study and a couple others that were used as evidence to shut down hydroxy trials.
I no longer have the energy to argue for or against the use of this drug but am incredibly discouraged by the general discourse and “unbiased“ efforts of our medical community in giving the public honest analysis and hope that they’re working to find a fix to this virus
This must and is being investigated. If the authors of this article did fabricate data, they should all be arrested for fraud, and jailed for a very long time. All employees of surgisphere that were aware of the fraud should be charged as co-conspirators.
All should also be stripped of their medical licenses and banned from practicing medicine ever again.
Looking into the background, something shady went on here. Either, the company illegitimately accessing patient data, or complete fabrication. I'm certain we will find out, given that serious jail time is likely possible.
One complaint against the accusation and the article listed. I was curious about who was involved in this company, they suggest that one person was an "adult model". That also bothers me. Looking up the employees, it appears that the individual in question worked as a promoter for marketing companies, and a promoter at trades shows, in addition to working as a medical technician. They seem to be legitimate in marketing and working hard to have a solid career. This accusation of an "adult model" may well ruin their career/life and they almost assuredly had no role in any malfeasance.
-
This must and is being investigated. If the authors of this article did fabricate data, they should all be arrested for fraud, and jailed for a very long time. All employees of surgisphere that were aware of the fraud should be charged as co-conspirators.
All should also be stripped of their medical licenses and banned from practicing medicine ever again.
Looking into the background, something shady went on here. Either, the company illegitimately accessing patient data, or complete fabrication. I'm certain we will find out, given that serious jail time is likely possible.
One complaint against the accusation and the article listed. I was curious about who was involved in this company, they suggest that one person was an "adult model". That also bothers me. Looking up the employees, it appears that the individual in question worked as a promoter for marketing companies, and a promoter at trades shows, in addition to working as a medical technician. They seem to be legitimate in marketing and working hard to have a solid career. This accusation of an "adult model" may well ruin their career/life and they almost assuredly had no role in any malfeasance.
She hot?
-
Unfortunately, the first controlled clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine showed that the drug did not prevent COVID-19 from infecting patients.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-trump.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200603&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=30002&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
The malaria drug hydroxychloroquine did not prevent Covid-19 in a rigorous study of 821 people who had been exposed to patients infected with the virus, researchers from the University of Minnesota and Canada are reporting on Wednesday.
The study was the first controlled clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine, a drug that President Trump has repeatedly promoted and recently taken himself. Conducted in the United States and Canada, this trial was the first to test whether the drug could prevent illness in people who have been exposed to the coronavirus. This type of study, in which patients are picked at random to receive either an experimental treatment or a placebo, is considered the most reliable way to measure the safety and effectiveness of a drug. The participants were health care workers and people who had been exposed at home to ill spouses, partners or parents.
“The take-home message for the general public is that if you’re exposed to someone with Covid-19, hydroxychloroquine is not an effective post-exposure, preventive therapy,” the lead author of the study, Dr. David R. Boulware, from the University of Minnesota, said in an interview.
The results are published in The New England Journal of Medicine.
“If we could find something that would ameliorate infection, block it or make it milder after a solid exposure, that would be quite wonderful,” said Dr. Judith Feinberg, the vice chairwoman for research in medicine at West Virginia University. “What we want to do is limit the number of cases. There was great hope riding on this.”
-
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/covid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine?__twitter_impression=true
What a mess this whole things has become. Now appears there are signs of significant data errors in the Lancet study and a couple others that were used as evidence to shut down hydroxy trials.
I no longer have the energy to argue for or against the use of this drug but am incredibly discouraged by the general discourse and “unbiased“ efforts of our medical community in giving the public honest analysis and hope that they’re working to find a fix to this virus
I mentioned this the other day. Coming unraveled. WHO resuming testing today because they found the Lancet’s findings unfounded related to adverse medical effects using this treatment. Surgisphere produces research results out of thin air.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/03/who-resuming-hydroxychloroquine-study-for-covid-19/
Fishy. https://science.thewire.in/the-sciences/covid-19-hydroxychloroquine-the-lancet-observational-study-surgisphere/
-
I mentioned this the other day. Coming unraveled. WHO resuming testing today because they found the Lancet’s findings unfounded related to adverse medical effects using this treatment. Surgisphere produces research results out of thin air.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/03/who-resuming-hydroxychloroquine-study-for-covid-19/
Fishy. https://science.thewire.in/the-sciences/covid-19-hydroxychloroquine-the-lancet-observational-study-surgisphere/
Good thing we cut funding to the WHO. What good could they do this world right now?
-
The amount of incompetence we've seen over the last few months is mind boggling.
-
The amount of incompetence we've seen over the last few months is mind boggling.
But eminently foreseeable. The only thing in his entire life that Trump has been competent at is self-promotion, but it turns out that neither viruses nor civil unrest give a crap about self-promotion.
-
Unfortunately, the first controlled clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine showed that the drug did not prevent COVID-19 from infecting patients.
Unfortunately, they didn't include Zinc in combination with Hydroxychloroquinine in their testing. This is where the key anecdotal beneficial results have been shown. Fortunately, other tests are underway that do include that combination.
-
Unfortunately, they didn't include Zinc in combination with Hydroxychloroquinine in their testing. This is where the key anecdotal beneficial results have been shown. Fortunately, other tests are underway that do include that combination.
Aaaaactually, they did include Zinc and Vitamin C in their testing, but it wasn't double blinded.. but to find that out, you'd have had to have read the appendix. I won't fault you for that since it is absolutely buried.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638/suppl_file/nejmoa2016638_appendix.pdf
This observational comparisons may suffer from confounding by indication, in that those
who deemed themselves at highest risk of developing infection may have been more likely to
additionally take either zinc or vitamin C. Regardless, there was no suggestion that zinc added
to hydroxychloroquine had additional benefit. Among those randomized to hydroxychloroquine,
those taking zinc had a 15.0% incidence of nnew Covid-19 versus 10.8% incidence of new
Covid-19 without self-reported zinc use.
But then there is this caveat:
The exact details of zinc formulation, dose, and duration were
not queried, so this is not conclusive information.
Additionally, I have a number of problems with the study on its face.
-people given HCQ were not confirmed to have COVID19, they just had contact or lived with people that had the disease.
Persons with symptoms of Covid-19 or with PCR-proven SARS-CoV-2 infection were excluded from this prevention trial but were separately enrolled in a companion clinical trial to treat early infection.
-self reporting (smh), self administration (smh)
Adherence among the trial participants was moderate. Full adherence to the trial intervention differed according to trial group, with 75.4% of participants in the hydroxychloroquine group (312 of 414) and 82.6% of those in the placebo group (336 of 407) having taken all 19 prescribed tablets over a period of 5 days (P=0.01).
then there is this:
The most common reason that participants stopped taking the assigned hydroxychloroquine or placebo was side effects (17 participants in the hydroxychloroquine group and 8 in the placebo group). Side effects were more frequent with hydroxychloroquine than with placebo
PERSONALLY, I think this study should NOT be used as evidence against or for HCQ administration in suspected COVID19 patients. Light it on fire.
I'd tell you to draw your own conclusions, but lord knows I don't have to.
-
The Lancet formally retracted its paper today, given the aforementioned flaws in the data.
Fortunately there are enough trials in progress that we can still get a reasonable handle on the use of hydroxychloroquine for COVID once and for all.
-
The Lancet formally retracted its paper today, given the aforementioned flaws in the data.
Fortunately there are enough trials in progress that we can still get a reasonable handle on the use of hydroxychloroquine for COVID once and for all.
This should hit the airwaves with the same veracity that the original story came out with, right rockee ole buddy. I think more people died not given the chance to be treated properly with hydroxychloroquine under qualified care of those who have been successfully treating their patients with it like dr Steven Smith. He seems pretty qualified having the clinic named after him is kinda cool
https://www.smithcenternj.org/about-our-doctors/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/05/lancet-had-to-do-one-of-the-biggest-retractions-in-modern-history-how-could-this-happen
-
I think more people died not given the chance to be treated properly with hydroxychloroquine under qualified care of those who have been successfully treating their patients with it like dr Steven Smith.
Please show a scientific study verifying this fact, rocket.
I'm skeptical, but I'm certainly not saying it's impossible. I just haven't seen any facts to back up your thesis. So I'd really like to see some, if you would be so kind.
Thanks.
-
This should hit the airwaves with the same veracity that the original story came out with, right rockee ole buddy. I think more people died not given the chance to be treated properly with hydroxychloroquine under qualified care of those who have been successfully treating their patients with it like dr Steven Smith. He seems pretty qualified having the clinic named after him is kinda cool
https://www.smithcenternj.org/about-our-doctors/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/05/lancet-had-to-do-one-of-the-biggest-retractions-in-modern-history-how-could-this-happen
He's a charlatan. It'd be like you naming your office, the Rocket Surgeon Dental Institute.
Cheeks brought him up earlier in this thread.
-
This should hit the airwaves with the same veracity that the original story came out with, right rockee ole buddy. I think more people died not given the chance to be treated properly with hydroxychloroquine under qualified care of those who have been successfully treating their patients with it like dr Steven Smith. He seems pretty qualified having the clinic named after him is kinda cool
https://www.smithcenternj.org/about-our-doctors/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/05/lancet-had-to-do-one-of-the-biggest-retractions-in-modern-history-how-could-this-happen
Rocket, you can see my previous post on this. I am appalled by the paper that was published, but your statements are not supported by the existing science.
There has now been a controlled study of the efficacy of HCQ for treating/preventing COVID, linked a bit earlier in this thread. It found that it has no effect. There are also separate studies from Brazil, Sweden, France, and the VA where they found no benefit (in some cases increased risk of death and serious side effects) from HCQ treatment.
Also, there were ongoing clinical trials, and still are, in the US. The thing with clinical trials when there is a serious disease like COVID running rampant, if there is clear benefit, they will push the medication out. If there are clear and obvious issues (without benefits), they will cease the trials. Based on the responses from the FDA/CDC, it would appear that at best, HCQ is showing no effect.
Still appalled by the article, but your statement that "people are dying" by not being given the chance is unfounded. The medication should still not be being given outside of a clinical trial, or hospital setting because of known adverse risks/outcomes.
-
Rocket, you can see my previous post on this. I am appalled by the paper that was published, but your statements are not supported by the existing science.
There has now been a controlled study of the efficacy of HCQ for treating/preventing COVID, linked a bit earlier in this thread. It found that it has no effect. There are also separate studies from Brazil, Sweden, France, and the VA where they found no benefit (in some cases increased risk of death and serious side effects) from HCQ treatment.
Also, there were ongoing clinical trials, and still are, in the US. The thing with clinical trials when there is a serious disease like COVID running rampant, if there is clear benefit, they will push the medication out. If there are clear and obvious issues (without benefits), they will cease the trials. Based on the responses from the FDA/CDC, it would appear that at best, HCQ is showing no effect.
Still appalled by the article, but your statement that "people are dying" by not being given the chance is unfounded. The medication should still not be being given outside of a clinical trial, or hospital setting because of known adverse risks/outcomes.
Spot on, forgetful.
-
Hydroxy
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/05/hydroxychloroquine-had-no-benefit-for-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-possibly-closing-door-to-use-of-drug/ (https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/05/hydroxychloroquine-had-no-benefit-for-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-possibly-closing-door-to-use-of-drug/)
-
I am sure that the pro HCQ folks will point to the myriad of peer reviewed positive studies that show the benefits Of the drug.
-
Effect of Convalescent Plasma Therapy on Time to Clinical Improvement in Patients With Severe and Life-threatening COVID-19
A Randomized Clinical Trial
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2766943
Question What is the effect of convalescent plasma therapy added to standard treatment, compared with standard treatment alone, on clinical outcomes in patients with severe or life-threatening coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)?
Finding In this randomized clinical trial that included 103 patients and was terminated early, the hazard ratio for time to clinical improvement within 28 days in the convalescent plasma group vs the standard treatment group was 1.40 and was not statistically significant.
Meaning Among patients with severe or life-threatening COVID-19, convalescent plasma therapy added to standard treatment did not significantly improve the time to clinical improvement within 28 days, although the trial was terminated early and may have been underpowered to detect a clinically important difference.
-
A synthetic antibody treatment.
https://www.barrons.com/articles/regenerons-antibody-cocktail-against-covid-starts-human-trials-51591886792?mod=bol-social-fb (https://www.barrons.com/articles/regenerons-antibody-cocktail-against-covid-starts-human-trials-51591886792?mod=bol-social-fb)
-
Super-Antibodies....
https://www.sfchronicle.com/health/article/Rare-super-coronavirus-antibodies-likely-to-15339594.php (https://www.sfchronicle.com/health/article/Rare-super-coronavirus-antibodies-likely-to-15339594.php)
-
Would you mind giving brief summaries if you’re posting links that are behind paywalls, please? Thanks.
-
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/rare-super-coronavirus-antibodies-likely-to-yield-vaccine-say-stanford-ucsf-experts/ar-BB15v6PP (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/rare-super-coronavirus-antibodies-likely-to-yield-vaccine-say-stanford-ucsf-experts/ar-BB15v6PP)
-
The Food and Drug Administration said Monday that it was revoking emergency authorization of hydroxycloroquine to treat Covid-19, saying it's “unlikely to be effective.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/15/world/coronavirus-live-updates.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200615&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=30949&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fda-revokes-authorization-for-hydroxychloroquine-2020-06-15
-
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/rare-super-coronavirus-antibodies-likely-to-yield-vaccine-say-stanford-ucsf-experts/ar-BB15v6PP (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/rare-super-coronavirus-antibodies-likely-to-yield-vaccine-say-stanford-ucsf-experts/ar-BB15v6PP)
It appears that those “super“ antibodies are the ones being tested for in the serological test announced by the Mayo Clinic recently.
https://www.kaaltv.com/coronavirus/mayo-clinic-launches-neutralizing-antibody-test-for-covid-19/5758799/
-
It appears that those “super“ antibodies are the ones being tested for in the serological test announced by the Mayo Clinic recently.
https://www.kaaltv.com/coronavirus/mayo-clinic-launches-neutralizing-antibody-test-for-covid-19/5758799/
Science has always been a weakness of mine but the fact that two different organizations are testing it would seem to be a great sign?
-
In his own words...sigh...
https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1272624866366119936?s=19
-
In his own words...sigh...
https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1272624866366119936?s=19
Stunningly ignorant.
-
Science has always been a weakness of mine but the fact that two different organizations are testing it would seem to be a great sign?
Yes – the fact that different organizations are studying these particular antibodies seems to indicate that they are a promising lead for testing and therapy.
-
Gooooo, forgetful, would love to hear your thoughts on this:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53061281
Coronavirus: Dexamethasone proves first life-saving drug
The low-dose steroid treatment dexamethasone is a major breakthrough in the fight against the deadly virus, UK experts say.
The drug is part of the world's biggest trial testing existing treatments to see if they also work for coronavirus. It cut the risk of death by a third for patients on ventilators. For those on oxygen, it cut deaths by a fifth.
-
I'm not surprised. Stopping or minimizing the cytokine storm is a very important step in lowering the death totals. That a common steroid can do it occasionally is a bonus. Keep sciencing.
-
Gooooo, forgetful, would love to hear your thoughts on this:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53061281
Coronavirus: Dexamethasone proves first life-saving drug
The low-dose steroid treatment dexamethasone is a major breakthrough in the fight against the deadly virus, UK experts say.
The drug is part of the world's biggest trial testing existing treatments to see if they also work for coronavirus. It cut the risk of death by a third for patients on ventilators. For those on oxygen, it cut deaths by a fifth.
I saw this earlier today, and was hoping I could see some of the raw data and methods associated with the study. The results that they report are fantastic, and this is exactly the type of thing we need for severe cases. We need to look at what happens now in combination treatments e.g. remdesivir + dex ; or remdesivir + dex + plasma.
Ideally combination therapies would amplify each treatments main effects, which are different in all 3 cases for known treatments.
Dex was on my radar as a possible beneficial treatment for a couple reasons, including its anti-inflammatory activity, beneficial use in respiratory distress syndrome, and its lack of effects on sodium retention that may minimize the benefit of other corticosteroids, so I'm optimistic (always cautious though).
-
Ditto on what forgetful said. I hadn't read much about steroid use in covid patients up until now (but assumed docs were using them for their strong anti-inflammatory properties). The report looks very promising; I just hope it can be replicated in more widespread studies.
-
Science: Its a Deep State Conspiracy
Trump Administration Stuck With 66 Million Doses of Near-Unusable Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine
https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trumps-administration-stuck-with-66-million-doses-of-near-unusable-chloroquine-and-hydroxychloroquine?ref=home
The Food and Drug Administration rescinded its “emergency use authorization” for chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19 on Monday. The decision left President Donald Trump —who had touted the malaria drugs as potential coronavirus cures and even said he had taken one—and his administration with 66 million doses of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine without an evident use. The White House had mobilized the federal government to stockpile the drugs for use against the virus before medical experts were sure of its efficacy. Peter Navarro, the president’s trade adviser, raged against the decision Monday and mustered a familiar conspiracy theory in defense of Trump: “This is a Deep State blindside by bureaucrats who hate the administration they work for more than they’re concerned about saving American lives.”
So how many taxpayer dollars were wasted on this?
-
I wonder what rocket thinks of this now?
-
I wonder what rocket thinks of this now?
Do you really wonder?
I'd be pretty surprised if he doesn't also think it's a conspiracy against his emperor.
-
Science: Its a Deep State Conspiracy
Trump Administration Stuck With 66 Million Doses of Near-Unusable Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine
https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trumps-administration-stuck-with-66-million-doses-of-near-unusable-chloroquine-and-hydroxychloroquine?ref=home
The Food and Drug Administration rescinded its “emergency use authorization” for chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19 on Monday. The decision left President Donald Trump —who had touted the malaria drugs as potential coronavirus cures and even said he had taken one—and his administration with 66 million doses of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine without an evident use. The White House had mobilized the federal government to stockpile the drugs for use against the virus before medical experts were sure of its efficacy. Peter Navarro, the president’s trade adviser, raged against the decision Monday and mustered a familiar conspiracy theory in defense of Trump: “This is a Deep State blindside by bureaucrats who hate the administration they work for more than they’re concerned about saving American lives.”
So how many taxpayer dollars were wasted on this?
I'm not really upset about the stockpile of this medication. If it had worked, we were well supplied, if it didn't, it wasn't that much cost to the average taxpayer. Better to be prepared in case things were needed.
What bothered me from the very beginning was the political push to prioritize one treatment over others, when others looked far more promising from the scientific perspective. The politicization of a prospective treatment damaged our ability to focus on simply doing science and preparing. As an example, no push was made to stockpile remdesivir. We are facing a shortage now, because the president for political purposes pushed one treatment that was unlikely to prove beneficial.
That is the problem. Pushing one treatment at the expense of others. All reasonably plausible treatments should have been identified and stockpiles made, or plans to stock them put into place.
-
I'm not really upset about the stockpile of this medication. If it had worked, we were well supplied, if it didn't, it wasn't that much cost to the average taxpayer. Better to be prepared in case things were needed.
What bothered me from the very beginning was the political push to prioritize one treatment over others, when others looked far more promising from the scientific perspective. The politicization of a prospective treatment damaged our ability to focus on simply doing science and preparing. As an example, no push was made to stockpile remdesivir. We are facing a shortage now, because the president for political purposes pushed one treatment that was unlikely to prove beneficial.
That is the problem. Pushing one treatment at the expense of others. All reasonably plausible treatments should have been identified and stockpiles made, or plans to stock them put into place.
Reasonable comment. Thanks for posting.
-
It means that a potential cure was stockpiled and then found wanting. Hopefully it is now doled out to those who need it. I have nothing against hydroxychloroquinine. It would have been nice if it had been more effective. The problem was/is that it became politicized. It is a drug that has shown effectiveness in other uses. It was experimented with early. Like many others, it showed little to no real magic. Not a crime. An experiment that didn't pan out.
Touting it as a panacea or wonder drug was unfair and dumb.
-
Science: Its a Deep State Conspiracy
Trump Administration Stuck With 66 Million Doses of Near-Unusable Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine
https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trumps-administration-stuck-with-66-million-doses-of-near-unusable-chloroquine-and-hydroxychloroquine?ref=home
The Food and Drug Administration rescinded its “emergency use authorization” for chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19 on Monday. The decision left President Donald Trump —who had touted the malaria drugs as potential coronavirus cures and even said he had taken one—and his administration with 66 million doses of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine without an evident use. The White House had mobilized the federal government to stockpile the drugs for use against the virus before medical experts were sure of its efficacy. Peter Navarro, the president’s trade adviser, raged against the decision Monday and mustered a familiar conspiracy theory in defense of Trump: “This is a Deep State blindside by bureaucrats who hate the administration they work for more than they’re concerned about saving American lives.”
So how many taxpayer dollars were wasted on this?
Luckily it is an inexpensive medication.
-
I'm not really upset about the stockpile of this medication. If it had worked, we were well supplied, if it didn't, it wasn't that much cost to the average taxpayer. Better to be prepared in case things were needed.
What bothered me from the very beginning was the political push to prioritize one treatment over others, when others looked far more promising from the scientific perspective. The politicization of a prospective treatment damaged our ability to focus on simply doing science and preparing. As an example, no push was made to stockpile remdesivir. We are facing a shortage now, because the president for political purposes pushed one treatment that was unlikely to prove beneficial.
That is the problem. Pushing one treatment at the expense of others. All reasonably plausible treatments should have been identified and stockpiles made, or plans to stock them put into place.
Agreed - it was reasonable to stockpile a drug that could have been a game changer in the fight against Covid.
The only question I have is how long they continued to stockpile. If they stopped stockpiling the drug a few weeks back when the data became clear, then I think the move was fine. But if they continued to do it until FDA’s announcement on Monday, well....
-
Since they have massive quantities available, it might be a good idea to provide the medication for free to patients who really need it, specifically those with Lupus.
-
Agreed - it was reasonable to stockpile a drug that could have been a game changer in the fight against Covid.
Except as far as I can see, there was no scientifically valid reason to assume this was a game changer.
This all started from an extremely sketchy trial by an extremely sketchy French doctor. Then Dr. "Miracle Cure" Oz started promoting this, because that is what he does these days, seemingly without the least bit of investigation. Because Oz is a frequent guest on Fox, the entire Fox crew began touting it, and so of course Trump latched on to it like a drowning man. And so we got the "game changer".
Dr. Rick Bright was fired from Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority because he resisted dumping money into unproven (in terms of COVID) drugs. Telling the Emperor he has no clothes is verboten. So both the Federal government and a number of state governments wasted a lot of money on this and likely killed a number of people they tried it on because a non-scientist, non-doctor with "a very good brain" had a hunch.
-
Multiple governments started trials.
-
I wonder what rocket thinks of this now?
i hope this answers your question sully
dr stephen m. smith and a host of doctors at his infectious disease clinic have been treating hundreds of patients with success that may not have had an alternative at the time. it probably saved some lives while other treatments were being developed. i don't give a schnit if uncle joe touted it. if it has worked as it has for the smith center, to deny it's use would be denying a sick patient the chance to live
https://www.risingms.com/covid-19-treatment-updates/
The people that say hydroxychloroquine is not proven to work are looking for a traditional double-blind study. The good news is that such a study coming. The University of Pennsylvania has a new trial to evaluate whether the drug hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) can benefit people infected with COVID-19, as well as whether taking the drug preventatively may help people avoid infection altogether. The study, called Prevention and Treatment of COVID-19 with HCQ (PATCH), is currently enrolling patients in three separate sub-studies (NCT04329923).
-
Multiple governments started trials.
I agree with TSmith.
Multiple gov't's started trials because they were reaching for anything - not because there was a good reason to believe it would work.
-
i hope this answers your question sully
dr stephen m. smith and a host of doctors at his infectious disease clinic have been treating hundreds of patients with success that may not have had an alternative at the time. it probably saved some lives while other treatments were being developed. i don't give a schnit if uncle joe touted it. if it has worked as it has for the smith center, to deny it's use would be denying a sick patient the chance to live
https://www.risingms.com/covid-19-treatment-updates/
The people that say hydroxychloroquine is not proven to work are looking for a traditional double-blind study. The good news is that such a study coming. The University of Pennsylvania has a new trial to evaluate whether the drug hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) can benefit people infected with COVID-19, as well as whether taking the drug preventatively may help people avoid infection altogether. The study, called Prevention and Treatment of COVID-19 with HCQ (PATCH), is currently enrolling patients in three separate sub-studies (NCT04329923).
Clicked your link, checked the date, April 12, 2020. Laughed to myself about how you're so dead set on something rather than just following what science says.
Then I just shrugged because I know, no matter what comes of all of this, you will never be convinced. And that is your weakness.
-
Clicked your link, checked the date, April 12, 2020. Laughed to myself about how you're so dead set on something rather than just following what science says.
Then I just shrugged because I know, no matter what comes of all of this, you will never be convinced. And that is your weakness.
MAGA
-
Clicked your link, checked the date, April 12, 2020. Laughed to myself about how you're so dead set on something rather than just following what science says.
Then I just shrugged because I know, no matter what comes of all of this, you will never be convinced. And that is your weakness.
One day, it’ll just disappear
-
i hope this answers your question sully
dr stephen m. smith and a host of doctors at his infectious disease clinic have been treating hundreds of patients with success that may not have had an alternative at the time. it probably saved some lives while other treatments were being developed. i don't give a schnit if uncle joe touted it. if it has worked as it has for the smith center, to deny it's use would be denying a sick patient the chance to live
https://www.risingms.com/covid-19-treatment-updates/
The people that say hydroxychloroquine is not proven to work are looking for a traditional double-blind study. The good news is that such a study coming. The University of Pennsylvania has a new trial to evaluate whether the drug hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) can benefit people infected with COVID-19, as well as whether taking the drug preventatively may help people avoid infection altogether. The study, called Prevention and Treatment of COVID-19 with HCQ (PATCH), is currently enrolling patients in three separate sub-studies (NCT04329923).
Oh. So you’re still on the quackery train.
Got it.
-
I agree with TSmith.
Multiple gov't's started trials because they were reaching for anything - not because there was a good reason to believe it would work.
I agree that it was a longshot, and I was as skeptical as anyone that it would work. That said, It was a potentially cheap cure, so the cost was a relative drop in the bucket. And the medication can still be used by people with lupus and such, so it isn’t like we spent money on nothing.
I am more concerned about the selection process for vaccines we’re backing. The last I saw, we were investing in five vaccines that don’t seem to be the best potential candidates. I think it is noteworthy that the two most promising candidates that we aren’t investing in happen to be from Chinese companies.
I hope I am proven wrong, but I think that choice will cost us a ton of money and put us further back in the vaccine line.
-
One day, it’ll just disappear
Like a miracle.
-
I agree that it was a longshot, and I was as skeptical as anyone that it would work. That said, It was a potentially cheap cure, so the cost was a relative drop in the bucket. And the medication can still be used by people with lupus and such, so it isn’t like we spent money on nothing.
I am more concerned about the selection process for vaccines we’re backing. The last I saw, we were investing in five vaccines that don’t seem to be the best potential candidates. I think it is noteworthy that the two most promising candidates that we aren’t investing in happen to be from Chinese companies.
I hope I am proven wrong, but I think that choice will cost us a ton of money and put us further back in the vaccine line.
Agreed on all counts. I was extremely skeptical about HCQ. I sill supported at least looking into it. Also concerned about vaccine selection.
I'm concerned about how priorities are being selected in general.
-
Agreed on all counts. I was extremely skeptical about HCQ. I sill supported at least looking into it. Also concerned about vaccine selection.
I'm concerned about how priorities are being selected in general.
Yes, but looking at it, as in running trials to determine its efficacy, is one thing, touting it as "a game changer" without any valid evidence and burning federal monies and American lives is something else entirely IMO.
-
Mayo: Plasma from recovered patients safe for treating COVID-19
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/06/19/mayo-plasma-from-recovered-patients-safe-for-treating-covid19
Low rate of serious side effects, and possible but small beneficial effect.
-
Perhaps the final nail in the coffin for using HCQ to treat Covid?
In another setback for hydroxychloroquine, the National Institutes of Health halts a clinical trial.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/20/world/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#link-4e9788c5
The National Institutes of Health said on Saturday that it had stopped a clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine, the antimalarial drug that President Trump has promoted to treat the virus with scant evidence of its efficacy, because the drug was unlikely to benefit hospitalized patients.
The halting of the trial, which had aimed to enroll more than 500 patients, is the latest evidence that scientists are increasingly concluding that the promise of hydroxychloroquine has fallen far short of early expectations.
“In effect, the drug didn’t work,” said Dr. William Schaffner, a professor of infectious diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. He said the medical community had been closely watching the trial because it was federally funded, placebo-controlled and run by respected investigators. “I think we can put this drug aside and now devote our attention to other potential treatments.”
-
Perhaps the final nail in the coffin for using HCQ to treat Covid?
In another setback for hydroxychloroquine, the National Institutes of Health halts a clinical trial.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/20/world/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#link-4e9788c5
The National Institutes of Health said on Saturday that it had stopped a clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine, the antimalarial drug that President Trump has promoted to treat the virus with scant evidence of its efficacy, because the drug was unlikely to benefit hospitalized patients.
The halting of the trial, which had aimed to enroll more than 500 patients, is the latest evidence that scientists are increasingly concluding that the promise of hydroxychloroquine has fallen far short of early expectations.
“In effect, the drug didn’t work,” said Dr. William Schaffner, a professor of infectious diseases at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. He said the medical community had been closely watching the trial because it was federally funded, placebo-controlled and run by respected investigators. “I think we can put this drug aside and now devote our attention to other potential treatments.”
they just couldn't help themselves, but is it not possible to write anything sans potus being brought up in it?? if they would have left politics out of it, it may have had more credibility and...the new york times cannot be trusted politically.
i am not a fan of WHO by any means, but i did run into this
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/03/who-resuming-hydroxychloroquine-study-for-covid-19/
"The potential of hydroxychloroquine to treat Covid-19 has become a political flashpoint, with President Trump and his political allies cheering its use, despite no gold-standard clinical trials yet showing it is effective. The WHO’s trial could help settle the question of whether or not the drug works in Covid-19"
just because a study by one group is halted doesn't mean other doctors, who have seen success rates, should not be able to prescribe it as they see fit. whatever happened to the gov not getting in between a doctor's and a patients health care decisions such as abortion
https://tucson.com/news/local/tucson-based-doctors-group-sues-feds-over-use-of-hydroxychloroquine/article_963f9a9c-f257-5c72-95a3-4a40ca2a0a5f.html
-
they just couldn't help themselves, but is it not possible to write anything sans potus being brought up in it?? if they would have left politics out of it, it may have had more credibility and...the new york times cannot be trusted politically.
i am not a fan of WHO by any means, but i did run into this
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/03/who-resuming-hydroxychloroquine-study-for-covid-19/
"The potential of hydroxychloroquine to treat Covid-19 has become a political flashpoint, with President Trump and his political allies cheering its use, despite no gold-standard clinical trials yet showing it is effective. The WHO’s trial could help settle the question of whether or not the drug works in Covid-19"
just because a study by one group is halted doesn't mean other doctors, who have seen success rates, should not be able to prescribe it as they see fit. whatever happened to the gov not getting in between a doctor's and a patients health care decisions such as abortion
https://tucson.com/news/local/tucson-based-doctors-group-sues-feds-over-use-of-hydroxychloroquine/article_963f9a9c-f257-5c72-95a3-4a40ca2a0a5f.html
That article is from over three weeks ago, fwiend.
-
they just couldn't help themselves, but is it not possible to write anything sans potus being brought up in it?? if they would have left politics out of it, it may have had more credibility and...the new york times cannot be trusted politically.
It was newsworthy that the President continued to mention it. He did so repeatedly, enough that doctors were concerned that not enough would be around for people who needed it.
That's not politics. That's news. Sorry you can't understand the difference.
-
(https://images2.imgbox.com/96/26/G0l6euAV_o.gif) (http://imgbox.com/G0l6euAV)
-
It was newsworthy that the President continued to mention it. He did so repeatedly, enough that doctors were concerned that not enough would be around for people who needed it.
That's not politics. That's news. Sorry you can't understand the difference.
Affirmative. There is nothing in the NYT article that is incorrect, irrelevant or out of context.
-
It was newsworthy that the President continued to mention it. He did so repeatedly, enough that doctors were concerned that not enough would be around for people who needed it.
That's not politics. That's news. Sorry you can't understand the difference.
Nobody was even talking about hydroxy for weeks, including President Pandemic. Then he decided to take it and let everybody know about it (or, most likely, decided to lie about taking it). He was missing the attention, missing the chance to make something all about him.
-
Affirmative. There is nothing in the NYT article that is incorrect, irrelevant or out of context.
merely inconvenient.
-
So the headline sounds promising for hydroxy...
Study finds hydroxychloroquine helped coronavirus patients survive better
...as do the first few paragraphs...
"A team at Henry Ford Health System in Southeast Michigan said Thursday its study of 2,541 hospitalized patients found that those given hydroxychloroquine were much less likely to die.
Dr. Marcus Zervos, division head of infectious disease for Henry Ford Health System, said 26% of those not given hydroxychloroquine died, compared to 13% of those who got the drug. The team looked back at everyone treated in the hospital system since the first patient in March."
...but then you get to this part:
"Researchers not involved with the study were critical. They noted that the Henry Ford team did not randomly treat patients but selected them for various treatments based on certain criteria.
"As the Henry Ford Health System became more experienced in treating patients with COVID-19, survival may have improved, regardless of the use of specific therapies," Dr. Todd Lee of the Royal Victoria Hospital in Montreal, Canada, and colleagues wrote in a commentary in the same journal.
"Finally, concomitant steroid use in patients receiving hydroxychloroquine was more than double the non-treated group. This is relevant considering the recent RECOVERY trial that showed a mortality benefit with dexamethasone." The steroid dexamethasone can reduce inflammation in seriously ill patients."
-
Can you sciencesy types comment on this treatment?
https://www.evms.edu/media/evms_public/departments/internal_medicine/EVMS_Critical_Care_COVID-19_Protocol.pdf
-
The use of steroids like dexamethasone is estimated/believed to reduce mortality by 35% for severe symptom patients who needed ventilators. The hospital reported 18.1% mortality overall, which means the theoretical 35% reduction via steroid therapy would take it to just under 12% mortality rate.
This pseudo-study claims HCQ treatment result in mortality of 13.5% after they cherry-picked patients by screening for heart conditions.
That's an inferior outcome.
-
gee, pretty quiet around here 'bout hydroxy. inconvenient fact and hard to deny when something actually saves lives. gotta love how it's still reluctantly reported. on CNN for example.
"(CNN)A surprising new study found the controversial antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine helped patients better survive in the hospital. but the findings, like the federal government's use of the drug itself, were disputed
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-detroit-study/index.html
when can people just get past the politics and knock off the bs and listen to those who have been prescribing it like dr steven smith and his center for infectious diseases and urban health. he has been reporting these results for a month or more
i've been steadfast on this from the beginning and no, i do not have a financial interest in it as someone previously mentioned, half in jest. nor do i care that potus has touted it. doc smith wasn't trying to boast or sensationalize his results. he should be hailed for his courage, sticking to his convictions and standing by his results despite tremendous pressure from his "peers" or the "experts" who chastised him hard
-
Trolls gonna troll
-
gee, pretty quiet around here 'bout hydroxy. inconvenient fact and hard to deny when something actually saves lives. gotta love how it's still reluctantly reported. on CNN for example.
"(CNN)A surprising new study found the controversial antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine helped patients better survive in the hospital. but the findings, like the federal government's use of the drug itself, were disputed
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-detroit-study/index.html
when can people just get past the politics and knock off the bs and listen to those who have been prescribing it like dr steven smith and his center for infectious diseases and urban health. he has been reporting these results for a month or more
i've been steadfast on this from the beginning and no, i do not have a financial interest in it as someone previously mentioned, half in jest. nor do i care that potus has touted it. doc smith wasn't trying to boast or sensationalize his results. he should be hailed for his courage, sticking to his convictions and standing by his results despite tremendous pressure from his "peers" or the "experts" who chastised him hard
I mean the results were literally disputed.
You look for things that don’t exist.
-
gee, pretty quiet around here 'bout hydroxy. inconvenient fact and hard to deny when something actually saves lives. gotta love how it's still reluctantly reported. on CNN for example.
"(CNN)A surprising new study found the controversial antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine helped patients better survive in the hospital. but the findings, like the federal government's use of the drug itself, were disputed
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-detroit-study/index.html
when can people just get past the politics and knock off the bs and listen to those who have been prescribing it like dr steven smith and his center for infectious diseases and urban health. he has been reporting these results for a month or more
i've been steadfast on this from the beginning and no, i do not have a financial interest in it as someone previously mentioned, half in jest. nor do i care that potus has touted it. doc smith wasn't trying to boast or sensationalize his results. he should be hailed for his courage, sticking to his convictions and standing by his results despite tremendous pressure from his "peers" or the "experts" who chastised him hard
Rocket we have improved treatment dramatically for Covid-19 and have a mountain of this stuff as a country.
The answers to your questions lie with the docs who don’t use this despite the two facts above. Not scoopers.
-
gee, pretty quiet around here 'bout hydroxy. inconvenient fact and hard to deny when something actually saves lives. gotta love how it's still reluctantly reported. on CNN for example.
"(CNN)A surprising new study found the controversial antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine helped patients better survive in the hospital. but the findings, like the federal government's use of the drug itself, were disputed
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-detroit-study/index.html
when can people just get past the politics and knock off the bs and listen to those who have been prescribing it like dr steven smith and his center for infectious diseases and urban health. he has been reporting these results for a month or more
i've been steadfast on this from the beginning and no, i do not have a financial interest in it as someone previously mentioned, half in jest. nor do i care that potus has touted it. doc smith wasn't trying to boast or sensationalize his results. he should be hailed for his courage, sticking to his convictions and standing by his results despite tremendous pressure from his "peers" or the "experts" who chastised him hard
"Healthcare professional" clueless again.
-
gee, pretty quiet around here 'bout hydroxy. inconvenient fact and hard to deny when something actually saves lives. gotta love how it's still reluctantly reported. on CNN for example.
"(CNN)A surprising new study found the controversial antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine helped patients better survive in the hospital. but the findings, like the federal government's use of the drug itself, were disputed
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-detroit-study/index.html
when can people just get past the politics and knock off the bs and listen to those who have been prescribing it like dr steven smith and his center for infectious diseases and urban health. he has been reporting these results for a month or more
i've been steadfast on this from the beginning and no, i do not have a financial interest in it as someone previously mentioned, half in jest. nor do i care that potus has touted it. doc smith wasn't trying to boast or sensationalize his results. he should be hailed for his courage, sticking to his convictions and standing by his results despite tremendous pressure from his "peers" or the "experts" who chastised him hard
I've been steadfast since day 1, that we should follow the science. The science here says HCQ has no effect as a Covid treatment. The WHO canceled the last of their HCQ studies just the other day, because controlled studies show no benefit.
As has widely been reported, this study was significantly flawed, and the results can simply be explained by the excluded data, and the difference in dexamethasone use between the two groups. Not to mention treatments were assigned to individuals based on their health, and degree of illness. That on its own, makes results of limited value.
We need to follow one thing and one thing only in dealing with COVID, the science/data.
-
gee, pretty quiet around here 'bout hydroxy. inconvenient fact and hard to deny when something actually saves lives. gotta love how it's still reluctantly reported. on CNN for example.
Good to see you're still smoking the good stuff rocket. At one point in time I think I asked if you had money to gain by taking it. I also said (at the time) that if I was on my last breath I might try to get it. My views have changed, I would no longer ask for it -ever. Nor do I believe you have anything to gain financially from it.
Nonetheless, for your own health, if you contract covid-19 I do hope you seek out better treatments than hydroxychloroquine.
-
rocket must not have gotten the note that even the President has moved on at this point.
-
rocket must not have gotten the note that even the President has moved on at this point.
I wonder if he even read the article, or did he just latch on to the parts that supported his predetermined belief?
More broadly, why would a healthcare system even promote the results of a so-called study where they:
-- cherry picked which patients to give HCQ
-- gave those patients a double dose of another drug that has been proven to work in other studies so its not even an apples-to-apples comparison
-- exclude the 10% of people that hadn't recovered and were still hospitalized
Why would they do this? What's in it for them to promote this?
-
rocket must not have gotten the note that even the President has moved on at this point.
Actually......
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1280328830218051584?s=21
-
Hydroxy used in conjunction with a particular steroid will not increase your risk of dying. But even the best reading of this study does not in any way make it a game changer.
-
Actually......
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1280328830218051584?s=21
Oh brother....
-
What have you got to lose?
A high-risk Florida teen who died from covid-19 attended a huge church party, then was given hydroxychloroquine by her parents, report says
“A medical examiner’s report recently made public, however, has raised questions about Carsyn’s case. The Miami-Dade County Medical Examiner found that the immunocompromised teen went to a large church party with roughly 100 other children where she did not wear a mask and social distancing was not enforced. Then, after getting sick, nearly a week passed before she was taken to the hospital, and during that time her parents gave her hydroxychloroquine, an anti-malarial drug touted by President Trump that the Food and Drug Administration has issued warnings about, saying usage could cause potentially deadly heart rhythm problems.“
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/07/florida-carsyn-davis-coronavirus/
The mother was also posting links on Facebook to dontmaskourkids.com while her daughter was intubated the day before she died.
-
Can she be charged with 3rd degree murder? Her actions killed her daughter.
And we know where she got her ideas.
-
Can she be charged with 3rd degree murder? Her actions killed her daughter.
And we know where she got her ideas.
Worst thing is she is a nurse and her husband is a PA. Covidiots.
-
Worst thing is she is a nurse and her husband is a PA. Covidiots.
I have a feeling the Risk Management, Legal, HR and Public Relations departments where they work are trying to figure out how best to get them out. If they treat their own daughter that way, I can't imagine they're doing their patients much good.
-
Terrible story about vets and hydroxy
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/07/07/covid-cocktail-inside-pa-nursing-home-that-gave-some-veterans-hydroxychloroquine-even-without-covid-19-testing/?outputType=amp#click=https://t.co/dzFHNa9KK6Pp
-
Terrible story about vets and hydroxy
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/07/07/covid-cocktail-inside-pa-nursing-home-that-gave-some-veterans-hydroxychloroquine-even-without-covid-19-testing/?outputType=amp#click=https://t.co/dzFHNa9KK6Pp
Behind a paywall. I assume Vets died from getting hydroxy?
-
Behind a paywall. I assume Vets died from getting hydroxy?
Yes. Often kept from families knowledge. Used on vets without symptoms. Used despite knowing side effects they may cost high risk patients.
-
Yes. Often kept from families knowledge. Used on vets without symptoms. Used despite knowing side effects they may cost high risk patients.
So, basically, they were murdered?
Seems like a not so nice way to treat our vets.
-
Nothing new here but a good summary of the evolution of treatment
https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/8/21317128/improved-covid-treatment-hospitals-remdesivir-dexamethasone (https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/8/21317128/improved-covid-treatment-hospitals-remdesivir-dexamethasone)
-
Of 491 patients randomly assigned to a group, 423 contributed primary end point data. Of these, 341 (81%) had laboratory-confirmed infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) or epidemiologically linked exposure to a person with laboratory-confirmed infection; 56% (236 of 423) were enrolled within 1 day of symptoms starting. Change in symptom severity over 14 days did not differ between the hydroxychloroquine and placebo groups
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/m20-4207 (https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/m20-4207)
-
Of 491 patients randomly assigned to a group, 423 contributed primary end point data. Of these, 341 (81%) had laboratory-confirmed infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) or epidemiologically linked exposure to a person with laboratory-confirmed infection; 56% (236 of 423) were enrolled within 1 day of symptoms starting. Change in symptom severity over 14 days did not differ between the hydroxychloroquine and placebo groups
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/m20-4207 (https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/m20-4207)
To quote Kayleigh MAGAninny, "Science shouldn't stand in the way" of rocket and pace chugging all the HCQ they want.
-
Another article, this from The Associated Press, updating what scientists have come to know about several potential COVID-19 drugs that have been studied and tested.
+++
Fresh studies give more information about what treatments do or don’t work for COVID-19, with high-quality methods that give reliable results.
British researchers on Friday published their research on the only drug shown to improve survival – a cheap steroid called dexamethasone. Two other studies found that the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine does not help people with only mild symptoms.
For months before studies like these, learning what helps or harms has been undermined by “desperation science” as doctors and patients tried therapies on their own or through a host of studies not strong enough to give clear answers.
“For the field to move forward and for patients’ outcomes to improve, there will need to be fewer small or inconclusive studies” and more like the British one, Drs. Anthony Fauci and H. Clifford Lane of the National Institutes of Health wrote in the New England Journal of Medicine.
It’s now time to do more studies comparing treatments and testing combinations, said Dr. Peter Bach, a health policy expert at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York.
Here are highlights of recent treatment developments:
DEXAMETHASONE
The British study, led by the University of Oxford, tested a type of steroid widely used to tamp down inflammation, which can become severe and prove fatal in later stages of COVID-19.
About 2,104 patients given the drug were compared to 4,321 patients getting usual care.
It reduced deaths by 36% for patients sick enough to need breathing machines: 29% on the drug died versus 41% given usual care. It curbed the risk of death by 18% for patients needing just supplemental oxygen: 23% on the drug died versus 26% of the others.
However, it seemed harmful at earlier stages or milder cases of illness: 18% of those on the drug died versus 14% of those given usual care.
The clarity of who does and does not benefit “probably will result in many lives saved,” Fauci and Lane wrote.
HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE
The same Oxford study also tested hydroxychloroquine in a rigorous manner and researchers previously said it did not help hospitalized patients with COVID-19.
After 28 days, about 25.7% on hydroxychloroquine had died versus 23.5% given usual care – a difference so small it could have occurred by chance
Now, details published on a research site for scientists show that the drug may have done harm. Patients given hydroxychloroquine were less likely to leave the hospital alive within 28 days – 60% on the drug versus 63% given usual care. Those not needing breathing machines when they started treatment also were more likely to end up on one or to die.
Two other experiments found that early treatment with the drug did not help outpatients with mild COVID-19.
A study of 293 people from Spain published in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases found no significant differences in reducing the amount of virus patients had, the risk of worsening and needing hospitalization, or the time until recovery.
A similar study by University of Minnesota doctors in Annals of Internal Medicine of 423 mildly ill COVID-19 patients found that hydroxychloroquine did not substantially reduce symptom severity and brought more side effects.
“It is time to move on” from treating patients with this drug, Dr. Neil Schluger from New York Medical College wrote in a commentary in the journal.
REMDESIVIR
The only other therapy that’s been shown to help COVID-19 patients is remdesivir, an antiviral that shortens hospitalization by about four days on average.
“The role of remdesivir in severe COVID is now what we need to figure out,” Memorial Sloan Kettering’s Bach wrote in an email, saying the drug needs to be tested in combination with dexamethasone now.
Details of the government-led remdesivir study have not yet been published, but researchers are eager to see how many patients received other drugs such as steroids and hydroxychloroquine.
Meanwhile, Gilead Sciences, the company that makes remdesivir, which is given as an IV now, has started testing an inhaled version that would allow it to be tried in less ill COVID-19 patients to try to keep them from getting sick enough to need hospitalization. Gilead also has started testing remdesivir in a small group of children.
Supplies are very limited, and the U.S. government is allocating doses to hospitals through September.
-
Heparin.
-
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.jsonline.com/amp/5444654002
We’re starting to get this thing dialed in. Amazing results coming from our “friends” to the west.
-
Could be another avenue. However as the article says. No data presented and needs review
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53467022 (https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53467022)
-
https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotech/synairgen-shares-soar-300-covid-treatment-but-caveats-abound
-
https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating-covid-19-already-exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true
Interesting read. This particular epidemiologist is still fighting for hydroxy and offers a compelling argument for the early continued use of it.
-
https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating-covid-19-already-exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true
Interesting read. This particular epidemiologist is still fighting for hydroxy and offers a compelling argument for the early continued use of it.
The man who wrote this continually disregards, large peer-reviewed double blind control studies that contradict his opinion, instead favoring studies by random doctors, who don't even test their patients for COVID before treatment, and who offer no controls or concrete evidence of their results.
The man is bizarre, and clearly not a scientist.
-
Some people say....
-
Things going well in Brazil.
https://twitter.com/gersonjr/status/1286451690892341252 (https://twitter.com/gersonjr/status/1286451690892341252)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Edpk_jhWoAMuRxu.jpg)
-
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/yale-epidemiologist-says-hydroxychloroquine-key-defeating-covid-19
An Ivy League epidemiology professor is claiming that hydroxychloroquine — the drug that has been at the center of a politicized medical debate for the last several months — is "the key to defeating COVID-19," and that medical officials should be widely prescribing it to save the lives of thousands of coronavirus patients.
Harvey Risch, a professor of epidemiology at Yale as well as the director of that school's Molecular Cancer Epidemiology Laboratory, argues in a Newsweek op-ed this week that "the data fully support" the wide use of hydroxychloroquine as an effective treatment of COVID-19.
"When this inexpensive oral medication is given very early in the course of illness, before the virus has had time to multiply beyond control, it has shown to be highly effective," Risch argues in the column.
Hydroxychloroquine has been the subject of a bitter and protracted political argument for the past several months, after President Trump in mid-March said the drug was showing promising effects in treating COVID-19. Media outlets and commentators shortly thereafter began touting numerous stories of the drug's alleged fatal dangers as well as its reported ineffectiveness in treating the disease.
Risch, at Newsweek, argues that multiple studies over the past several months have demonstrated that the drug is a safe and efficacious treatment method for COVID-19.
Among the successful treatment experiments, he writes, are "an additional 400 high-risk patients treated by Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, with zero deaths; four studies totaling almost 500 high-risk patients treated in nursing homes and clinics across the U.S., with no deaths; a controlled trial of more than 700 high-risk patients in Brazil, with significantly reduced risk of hospitalization and two deaths among 334 patients treated with hydroxychloroquine; and another study of 398 matched patients in France, also with significantly reduced hospitalization risk."
Risch says the drug is most effective "when given very early in the course of illness, before the virus has had time to multiply beyond control."
Though according to Risch the benefits of the drug are clear, he nevertheless concedes that the subject "has become highly politicized."
"For many, it is viewed as a marker of political identity, on both sides of the political spectrum," he said. "Nobody needs me to remind them that this is not how medicine should proceed."
He also argues that "the drug has not been used properly in many studies," and that delays in administering the drug have reduced its effectiveness.
"In the future," Risch says in the column, "I believe this misbegotten episode regarding hydroxychloroquine will be studied by sociologists of medicine as a classic example of how extra-scientific factors overrode clear-cut medical evidence."
"But for now," he adds, "reality demands a clear, scientific eye on the evidence and where it points."
-
Things going well in Brazil.
https://twitter.com/gersonjr/status/1286451690892341252 (https://twitter.com/gersonjr/status/1286451690892341252)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Edpk_jhWoAMuRxu.jpg)
I like how he was bitten not once, but twice by an emu. That's just impressive.
-
I like how he was bitten not once, but twice by an emu. That's just impressive.
Sensing a trend
-
I like how he was bitten not once, but twice by an emu. That's just impressive.
I’m surprised to find out he isn’t a Great White fan.
-
Things going well in Brazil.
https://twitter.com/gersonjr/status/1286451690892341252 (https://twitter.com/gersonjr/status/1286451690892341252)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Edpk_jhWoAMuRxu.jpg)
This feels like it is from a Monty Python sketch.
-
The man who wrote this continually disregards, large peer-reviewed double blind control studies that contradict his opinion, instead favoring studies by random doctors, who don't even test their patients for COVID before treatment, and who offer no controls or concrete evidence of their results.
The man is bizarre, and clearly not a scientist.
He doesn’t ignore those. In those large, double blind, controlled studies HSHS rich was given long into the virus taken hold and the disease precession was too far along for it to work.
You though are ignoring all the evidence suggesting it might work when given early on. Pretty courageous to be calling a Yale epidemiologist a Joe schmo from an anonymous message board, forgetful.
-
So let me get this straight. He gives patients that have tested positive for covid a drug early on before they show serious symptoms.
And a majority get better at about the same rate as people that receive no treatment whatsoever. Groundbreaking!
By the way, I have tiger repellent that is 100% effective in repealing tigers in the wild in the US.
-
So let me get this straight. He gives patients that have tested positive for covid a drug early on before they show serious symptoms.
And a majority get better at about the same rate as people that receive no treatment whatsoever. Groundbreaking!
By the way, I have tiger repellent that is 100% effective in repealing tigers in the wild in the US.
Actually, no, forgetful is correct: in at least one of those studies the doctor didn't even test the patients for COVID. But HCQ cured them! Game changer!
-
You though are ignoring all the evidence suggesting it might work when given early on.
Please. Take all you can get your hands on.
-
Absolutely ZERO agenda from this foreign doctor either way, just speaking out and giving information
https://twitter.com/fleccas/status/1287846643417657344?s=20
-
Please. Take all you can get your hands on.
-
Absolutely ZERO agenda from this foreign doctor either way, just speaking out and giving information
https://twitter.com/fleccas/status/1287846643417657344?s=20
Ok. Maybe one of the studies will work then. Hope so....it’s certainly had more than a fair shot in NYC and around the world.
-
For those who believe the efficacy of HCQ is being denied/suppressed for political reasons please explain why it's not being used to great effect in other countries?
Are foreign governments and media letting people die in their nations just to stick it to Trump?
-
Absolutely ZERO agenda from this foreign doctor either way, just speaking out and giving information
https://twitter.com/fleccas/status/1287846643417657344?s=20
Do you EVER check your sources? Here is Dr. Stella's claim to fame: http://firepowerministry.org/blog/
I think you'll find her YouTube video "Deliverance From Family Line Witchcraft" as equally valid as her views on HCQ. Jump to the 20 minute mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1179&v=RYwjA8ZDyCE&feature=emb_logo
Now, how about you answer this question:
"So the question now is, guru, since you now know The Blaze lied to you by taking a quote out of context, does it change your mind? Because earlier you were complaining about people not accepting facts that didn't match what they wanted to believe..."
-
Absolutely ZERO agenda from this foreign doctor either way, just speaking out and giving information
https://twitter.com/fleccas/status/1287846643417657344?s=20
Put it in a few more threads and maybe people will start to believe it.
-
Do you EVER check your sources? Here is Dr. Stella's claim to fame: http://firepowerministry.org/blog/
I think you'll find her YouTube video "Deliverance From Family Line Witchcraft" as equally valid as her views on HCQ. Jump to the 20 minute mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1179&v=RYwjA8ZDyCE&feature=emb_logo
Now, how about you answer this question:
"So the question now is, guru, since you now know The Blaze lied to you by taking a quote out of context, does it change your mind? Because earlier you were complaining about people not accepting facts that didn't match what they wanted to believe..."
Don't jugde.
-
Do you EVER check your sources? Here is Dr. Stella's claim to fame: http://firepowerministry.org/blog/
I think you'll find her YouTube video "Deliverance From Family Line Witchcraft" as equally valid as her views on HCQ. Jump to the 20 minute mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1179&v=RYwjA8ZDyCE&feature=emb_logo
Now, how about you answer this question:
"So the question now is, guru, since you now know The Blaze lied to you by taking a quote out of context, does it change your mind? Because earlier you were complaining about people not accepting facts that didn't match what they wanted to believe..."
El Oh El
-
Do you EVER check your sources? Here is Dr. Stella's claim to fame: http://firepowerministry.org/blog/
I think you'll find her YouTube video "Deliverance From Family Line Witchcraft" as equally valid as her views on HCQ. Jump to the 20 minute mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1179&v=RYwjA8ZDyCE&feature=emb_logo
Now, how about you answer this question:
"So the question now is, guru, since you now know The Blaze lied to you by taking a quote out of context, does it change your mind? Because earlier you were complaining about people not accepting facts that didn't match what they wanted to believe..."
Answered this last night, but Rocky deleted it...It's because I'm a conservative. No different then twitter, facebook, and reddit do to conservatives..silence them
-
Answered this last night, but Rocky deleted it...It's because I'm a conservative. No different then twitter, facebook, and reddit do to conservatives..silence them
Yes. You are oppressed.
-
My poor dog is almost 10 and the arthritis is getting pretty bad.
Maybe I'll take her to guru's witch doctor.
What the hell does she have to lose?
-
Answered this last night, but Rocky deleted it...It's because I'm a conservative. No different then twitter, facebook, and reddit do to conservatives..silence them
So many snarky things could be said. I'll just let it go.
-
He doesn’t ignore those. In those large, double blind, controlled studies HSHS rich was given long into the virus taken hold and the disease precession was too far along for it to work.
You though are ignoring all the evidence suggesting it might work when given early on. Pretty courageous to be calling a Yale epidemiologist a Joe schmo from an anonymous message board, forgetful.
He does ignore them. There are multiple peer reviewed studies that have looked at the exact iteration of treatment he is touting, and they were shown to have no benefit. Numerous nations (of every political variety) have looked into this, and found it has no statistically relevant benefit. There is no multi-national conspiracy against this treatment.
Next, I am not ignoring the evidence. I am probably one of the few people on this board that has read most COVID drug discovery papers, and serves on NIH review boards for funding decisions. I would gladly tell him everything I think on the matter to his face. I wish he was right, but the data does not support him in the least right now.
I actually don't think his errors are because of politics either. I think it is a psychological issue that I've notice amongst some people. I've noticed some people are having a hard time dealing with the emotional reality of a widespread, deadly virus, that we do not seem to understand and can't treat. In some of these people, there appears to be a protection-like mechanism where they are willing to believe in treatments (even when not supported) or conspiracy-ish theories that rationalize why this is all happening (separate from it just being part of life). I think he wants to believe there is a treatment, because he has a hard time admitting medical science doesn't understand this yet.
-
He does ignore them. There are multiple peer reviewed studies that have looked at the exact iteration of treatment he is touting, and they were shown to have no benefit. Numerous nations (of every political variety) have looked into this, and found it has no statistically relevant benefit. There is no multi-national conspiracy against this treatment.
Next, I am not ignoring the evidence. I am probably one of the few people on this board that has read most COVID drug discovery papers, and serves on NIH review boards for funding decisions. I would gladly tell him everything I think on the matter to his face. I wish he was right, but the data does not support him in the least right now.
I actually don't think his errors are because of politics either. I think it is a psychological issue that I've notice amongst some people. I've noticed some people are having a hard time dealing with the emotional reality of a widespread, deadly virus, that we do not seem to understand and can't treat. In some of these people, there appears to be a protection-like mechanism where they are willing to believe in treatments (even when not supported) or conspiracy-ish theories that rationalize why this is all happening (separate from it just being part of life). I think he wants to believe there is a treatment, because he has a hard time admitting medical science doesn't understand this yet.
Haha
-
Haha
Don’t waste time in a debate with Forgetful. You will lose every time.
-
Don’t waste time in a debate with Forgetful. You will lose every time.
I don’t view having conversations as win/lose scenarios, that way of thinking is why we are so divided.
I was laughing at him being a self proclaimed psychologist now and then finally admitting that after 7 months of trying to figure this virus out the medical/science community still has no idea what to do besides put on a mask and distance yourself from strangers.
I could have come up with that plan on day 1 hour 1 and these folks want us to put their opinions up on some pedestal.
-
Still sciencing. Still trying to learn. Starting from zero and now 8 months in. Of course it will take time. Of course there are going to be times when something new is learned and directions get changed. No sh!t. The scientists continue to progress. Society at large continues to be impatient toddler/Karens.
-
Still sciencing. Still trying to learn. Starting from zero and now 8 months in. Of course it will take time. Of course there are going to be times when something new is learned and directions get changed. No sh!t. The scientists continue to progress. Society at large continues to be impatient toddler/Karens.
“Inpatient toddlers and Karen’s” as they watch friends and loved ones die. Elderly parents remain isolated in their golden years, kids routines turned upside down, church services shut down, job layoffs, etc. Pretty much every cornerstone and foundational pillar to how we live our lives (faith, family, friends) has been put on hold for 8 months while anyone who second guesses the “sciencing” is told to be quiet and stay in your lane. Inpatient toddlers and Karen’s, solid take my friend.
-
“Inpatient toddlers and Karen’s” as they watch friends and loved ones die. Elderly parents remain isolated in their golden years, kids routines turned upside down, church services shut down, job layoffs, etc. Pretty much every cornerstone and foundational pillar to how we live our lives (faith, family, friends) has been put on hold for 8 months while anyone who second guesses the “sciencing” is told to be quiet and stay in your lane. Inpatient toddlers and Karen’s, solid take my friend.
Protesting and violating stay-at-home orders, refusing to wear masks, touting conspiracy theories, promoting unproven drugs as miracle cures, attacking the credibility of legitimate doctors and scientists, minimizing the severity of the illness, gathering in large crowds with no social distancing, suggesting COVID is a hoax, putting your personal needs and desires ahead of the public good.
Yep, toddlers and Karens.
(The current president also would be an acceptable answer)
-
Well because if you don't listen to science, the problem will only be around longer and be more severe.
-
“Inpatient toddlers and Karen’s” as they watch friends and loved ones die. Elderly parents remain isolated in their golden years, kids routines turned upside down, church services shut down, job layoffs, etc. Pretty much every cornerstone and foundational pillar to how we live our lives (faith, family, friends) has been put on hold for 8 months while anyone who second guesses the “sciencing” is told to be quiet and stay in your lane. Inpatient toddlers and Karen’s, solid take my friend.
We're a nation of spoiled brats. We have been since the late 40's.
-
Protesting and violating stay-at-home orders, refusing to wear masks, touting conspiracy theories, promoting unproven drugs as miracle cures, attacking the credibility of legitimate doctors and scientists, minimizing the severity of the illness, gathering in large crowds with no social distancing, suggesting COVID is a hoax, putting your personal needs and desires ahead of the public good.
Yep, toddlers and Karens.
(The current president also would be an acceptable answer)
Aka....”quiet!!! Stay in your lane and we’ll tell you when it’s ok to go about your daily life” just let us know, we’ll be impatiently waiting.
-
Fight Fight Fight.
Many countries are back to a new normal, which we all need to accept it not the old normal for the foreseeable future.
Why aren't we? We are trailing the developed world. My opinion we are not taking this seriously from a logistics, will, or implementation of practices that can help get us closer to normal.
-
Absolutely ZERO agenda from this foreign doctor either way, just speaking out and giving information
https://twitter.com/fleccas/status/1287846643417657344?s=20
Here's the problem guru. You take one person's view as gospel because it fits your preconceived narrative.
First thing you should do before posting something is look at the scientist's credentials. Are they actually a reliable source of information? What is their history? What is their standing in the scientific community? Do other scientists consider them honest/truthful/logical? Science is done via published documents where researchers put their reputation and careers on the line.
So when you post an link to a twitter account it should be from someone who is airtight in credentials/research/reputation... because people here WILL check it.
It isn't that people here don't want to listen to the conservative 'side' of things. It's that you're making it into some sort of strange competition. And those of us that aren't on your 'team' you label as 'left wing extremists'. When really, we just can't agree with the one person who claims HCQ works because the vast majority of scientists who have done research disagree.
-
“Inpatient toddlers and Karen’s” as they watch friends and loved ones die. Elderly parents remain isolated in their golden years, kids routines turned upside down, church services shut down, job layoffs, etc. Pretty much every cornerstone and foundational pillar to how we live our lives (faith, family, friends) has been put on hold for 8 months while anyone who second guesses the “sciencing” is told to be quiet and stay in your lane. Inpatient toddlers and Karen’s, solid take my friend.
Calling science "sciencing" isn't lending credence to your point.
When looking at these positions ask yourself "is this person a scientist?" if that person is touting alien DNA, and witch sex then the answer is usually no.
Then ask yourself how was this study conducted? If it was treating patients who actually were diagnosed with covid, and there was a positive correlation with improvement compared to those that were diagnosed but not given treatment then it's usually a good sign the study is legit. If the study says "60% of the time it works every time with patients that have the sniffles so we assumed they had covid" then it's a good assumption that it's not legit.
The issue is Guru (and I could be wrong but possibly you to) have been linking much more of the "60% of the time it works every time with patients that have the sniffles so we assumed they had covid" studies. And it's fair to say "hey that's not a legit study" but then rather than looking at it objectively, you're digging on HCL because it's been politicized and you want to have that told you so moment for Trump. It's not "stay in your lane for second guessing science" it's "hey really think through what you're posting and do a critical evaluation and you'll see the errors"
-
Aka....”quiet!!! Stay in your lane and we’ll tell you when it’s ok to go about your daily life” just let us know, we’ll be impatiently waiting.
Exactly. Glad you finally figured it out. If people would have actually listened to experts, we would be in much better shape today.
-
Here's the problem guru. You take one person's view as gospel because it fits your preconceived narrative.
First thing you should do before posting something is look at the scientist's credentials. Are they actually a reliable source of information? What is their history? What is their standing in the scientific community? Do other scientists consider them honest/truthful/logical? Science is done via published documents where researchers put their reputation and careers on the line.
So when you post an link to a twitter account it should be from someone who is airtight in credentials/research/reputation... because people here WILL check it.
It isn't that people here don't want to listen to the conservative 'side' of things. It's that you're making it into some sort of strange competition. And those of us that aren't on your 'team' you label as 'left wing extremists'. When really, we just can't agree with the one person who claims HCQ works because the vast majority of scientists who have done research disagree.
Lol we pretty much wrote the same response. Nice
-
Here's the problem guru. You take one person's view as gospel because it fits your preconceived narrative.
First thing you should do before posting something is look at the scientist's credentials. Are they actually a reliable source of information? What is their history? What is their standing in the scientific community? Do other scientists consider them honest/truthful/logical? Science is done via published documents where researchers put their reputation and careers on the line.
So when you post an link to a twitter account it should be from someone who is airtight in credentials/research/reputation... because people here WILL check it.
It isn't that people here don't want to listen to the conservative 'side' of things. It's that you're making it into some sort of strange competition. And those of us that aren't on your 'team' you label as 'left wing extremists'. When really, we just can't agree with the one person who claims HCQ works because the vast majority of scientists who have done research disagree.
Yeah but that's not guru's mindset. Now that her videos have been removed, it becomes a conspiracy. According to guru and his types, everything is about politics.
-
Aka....”quiet!!! Stay in your lane and we’ll tell you when it’s ok to go about your daily life” just let us know, we’ll be impatiently waiting.
Or, not waiting at all
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/04/13/PCIN/7cc67bfd-104c-4845-becb-96b6b55f2728-041420_covid19_reopen_JB_03.JPG?crop=2999,1687,x0,y279&width=1600&height=800&fit=bounds)
-
Short answer? If everyone had listened to science, we would be much farther ahead. So, if you aren't part of the solution...
-
Yeah but that's not guru's mindset. Now that her videos have been removed, it becomes a conspiracy. According to guru and his types, everything is about politics.
Oh, I know. There is always an excuse.
-
Oh, I know. There is always an excuse.
https://c19study.com/
The best link I can find showing the totality of clinical evidence showing best use of hydroxy. Just don’t see how anyone can say definitely it shouldn’t be getting prescribed early on after diagnosis before the virus has a stranglehold.
-
Calling science "sciencing" isn't lending credence to your point.
When looking at these positions ask yourself "is this person a scientist?" if that person is touting alien DNA, and witch sex then the answer is usually no.
Then ask yourself how was this study conducted? If it was treating patients who actually were diagnosed with covid, and there was a positive correlation with improvement compared to those that were diagnosed but not given treatment then it's usually a good sign the study is legit. If the study says "60% of the time it works every time with patients that have the sniffles so we assumed they had covid" then it's a good assumption that it's not legit.
The issue is Guru (and I could be wrong but possibly you to) have been linking much more of the "60% of the time it works every time with patients that have the sniffles so we assumed they had covid" studies. And it's fair to say "hey that's not a legit study" but then rather than looking at it objectively, you're digging on HCL because it's been politicized and you want to have that told you so moment for Trump. It's not "stay in your lane for second guessing science" it's "hey really think through what you're posting and do a critical evaluation and you'll see the errors"
I never mentioned the witch doctor. I posted a link from an epidemiologist from Yale, who I would call an expert in this field.
I didn’t realize though before posting the link he was struggling mentally with the idea that science and medical experts can’t figure this thing out.
Forgetful diagnosed him though so ignore the link.
-
https://c19study.com/
The best link I can find showing the totality of clinical evidence showing best use of hydroxy. Just don’t see how anyone can say definitely it shouldn’t be getting prescribed early on after diagnosis before the virus has a stranglehold.
Well there is this study they probably have to overcome.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638 (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638)
“We conducted a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial across the United States and parts of Canada testing hydroxychloroquine as postexposure prophylaxis.”
“We enrolled 821 asymptomatic participants. Overall, 87.6% of the participants (719 of 821) reported a high-risk exposure to a confirmed Covid-19 contact. The incidence of new illness compatible with Covid-19 did not differ significantly between participants receiving hydroxychloroquine (49 of 414 [11.8%]) and those receiving placebo (58 of 407 [14.3%]); the absolute difference was −2.4 percentage points (95% confidence interval, −7.0 to 2.2; P=0.35). Side effects were more common with hydroxychloroquine than with placebo (40.1% vs. 16.8%), but no serious adverse reactions were reported.“
-
I never mentioned the witch doctor. I posted a link from an epidemiologist from Yale, who I would call an expert in this field.
An epidemiologist from Yale that cited non-controlled, non-randomized trials, including at least one where the patients weren't even tested for COVID, to back up his opinion.
As I said before, I have no idea why someone in such a position would stake his reputation on what, as a professional, he must know are at best anecdotal studies. Rather that try to guess, I'll just (mis)quote Col. Jessup:
"My answer is I don't have the first damn clue. Maybe he was an early riser true believer and liked to pack opine in the morning. And maybe he didn't have any friends valid studies. I'm an educated man, but I'm afraid I can't speak intelligently about the travel publishing habits of William Santiago Harvey Risch, MD. What I do know is that he was set to leave the base at 0600 citing a bunch of non-scientific studies. Now, are these really the questions I was called here to answer studies you want to cite? Phone calls Raoult and foot lockers Zelenko? Please tell me that you have something more, Lieutenant Scooper. These two Marines are on trial for COVID patients fighting for their lives. Please tell me their lawyer the right wing hasn't pinned their hopes to a phone bill witch doctor."
-
https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/07/michigan-hospital-chosen-as-trial-site-coronavirus-vaccine-and-its-looking-for-volunteers.html
Signed up to be a guinea pig. Now I will wait to see if they contact me.
-
https://c19study.com/
The best link I can find showing the totality of clinical evidence showing best use of hydroxy. Just don’t see how anyone can say definitely it shouldn’t be getting prescribed early on after diagnosis before the virus has a stranglehold.
What is the graph showing? Each line is labeled with a country, and some are in green and others red? Is it saying that Cuba, Malaysia, Greece, Morocco, Ukraine etc have massively lower death rates than UK, USA, Sweden, Ireland and France, and its because they use HCQ?
-
Yeah here is how yesterday's hyroxy issue emerged...and of course made its way to Scoop via guru.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/dark-money-pac-s-coordinated-reopen-push-are-behind-doctors-n1235100
"A dozen doctors delivered speeches in front of the U.S. Capitol on Monday to a small crowd, claiming without evidence that the coronavirus could be cured and that widely accepted efforts to slow its spread were unnecessary and dangerous.
It was the latest video to go viral from apparent experts, quietly backed by dark money political organizations, evangelizing treatments for or opinions about the coronavirus that most doctors, public health officials and epidemiologists have roundly decried as dangerous misinformation.
...
That Monday's so-called news conference had more speakers than attendees was of little matter. Livestreamed by the far-right website Breitbart News, the video spread quickly, initially through conservative, anti-vaccination and government conspiracy groups. Within hours, it had reached over 20 million Facebook users.
The event was hosted and funded by the Tea Party Patriots, a right-wing political nonprofit group led by Jenny Beth Martin, the group’s co-founder, who spoke at the news conference."
-
Exactly. Glad you finally figured it out. If people would have actually listened to experts, we would be in much better shape today.
Ah yes, the old experts like Tony Fauci who in February proudly proclaimed the risk of Coronavirus in the US is "miniscule" and laughed at needing masks(and no that wasn't so there were enough for front line workers, he said flat out we didn't need them". Or in March when he did an interview and said the response of the Trump administration was "impressive". So now some radical lefts here are on the spot...and you don't get to have it both ways, which is it?? Trump admin failed when the EXPERT himself said in February no masks and risk miniscule(yet everyone blasts Trump because if he would have listened from the beginning, listened to who?? He WAS listening to Fauci then, that's what you idiots won't admit)?? Or...does Fauci have to bear significant responsibility for the disaster of a response(as so many claim)??
No, you don't get to play the "the science changes yadda yadda yadda card either". EVERYONE rails on him for not responding properly from the BEGINNING when the "expert" himself said it was nothing to worry about. So that's what we are using, from the beginning of this thing.
For the record, The WHO also tweeted out in February that Chinese scientists found no proof of human to human transmission.
So?? What do you radical left sycophants say?? This spin should be fantastic.
-
The event was hosted and funded by the Tea Party Patriots, a right-wing political nonprofit group led by Jenny Beth Martin, the group’s co-founder, who spoke at the news conference."
Led by a woman? That's way too left leaning! They are supposed to be adhering to traditional gender roles dammit
-
Ah yes, the old experts like Tony Fauci who in February proudly proclaimed the risk of Coronavirus in the US is "miniscule" and laughed at needing masks(and no that wasn't so there were enough for front line workers, he said flat out we didn't need them". Or in March when he did an interview and said the response of the Trump administration was "impressive". So now some radical lefts here are on the spot...and you don't get to have it both ways, which is it?? Trump admin failed when the EXPERT himself said in February no masks and risk miniscule(yet everyone blasts Trump because if he would have listened from the beginning, listened to who?? He WAS listening to Fauci then, that's what you idiots won't admit)?? Or...does Fauci have to bear significant responsibility for the disaster of a response(as so many claim)??
No, you don't get to play the "the science changes yadda yadda yadda card either". EVERYONE rails on him for not responding properly from the BEGINNING when the "expert" himself said it was nothing to worry about. So that's what we are using, from the beginning of this thing.
For the record, The WHO also tweeted out in February that Chinese scientists found no proof of human to human transmission.
So?? What do you radical left sycophants say?? This spin should be fantastic.
What we learn about any virus, much less this one, changes on a daily basis. The one thing that is certain, America has failed miserably in reacting to it. That’s not a surprise. We revel in ignorance and the lowest common denominator
-
Ah yes, the old experts like Tony Fauci who in February proudly proclaimed the risk of Coronavirus in the US is "miniscule" and laughed at needing masks(and no that wasn't so there were enough for front line workers, he said flat out we didn't need them". Or in March when he did an interview and said the response of the Trump administration was "impressive". So now some radical lefts here are on the spot...and you don't get to have it both ways, which is it?? Trump admin failed when the EXPERT himself said in February no masks and risk miniscule(yet everyone blasts Trump because if he would have listened from the beginning, listened to who?? He WAS listening to Fauci then, that's what you idiots won't admit)?? Or...does Fauci have to bear significant responsibility for the disaster of a response(as so many claim)??
No, you don't get to play the "the science changes yadda yadda yadda card either". EVERYONE rails on him for not responding properly from the BEGINNING when the "expert" himself said it was nothing to worry about. So that's what we are using, from the beginning of this thing.
For the record, The WHO also tweeted out in February that Chinese scientists found no proof of human to human transmission.
So?? What do you radical left sycophants say?? This spin should be fantastic.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ReflectingHairyAfricangroundhornbill-size_restricted.gif)
-
Ah yes, the old experts like Tony Fauci who in February proudly proclaimed the risk of Coronavirus in the US is "miniscule" and laughed at needing masks(and no that wasn't so there were enough for front line workers, he said flat out we didn't need them". Or in March when he did an interview and said the response of the Trump administration was "impressive". So now some radical lefts here are on the spot...and you don't get to have it both ways, which is it?? Trump admin failed when the EXPERT himself said in February no masks and risk miniscule(yet everyone blasts Trump because if he would have listened from the beginning, listened to who?? He WAS listening to Fauci then, that's what you idiots won't admit)?? Or...does Fauci have to bear significant responsibility for the disaster of a response(as so many claim)??
No, you don't get to play the "the science changes yadda yadda yadda card either". EVERYONE rails on him for not responding properly from the BEGINNING when the "expert" himself said it was nothing to worry about. So that's what we are using, from the beginning of this thing.
For the record, The WHO also tweeted out in February that Chinese scientists found no proof of human to human transmission.
So?? What do you radical left sycophants say?? This spin should be fantastic.
Fauci has to publicly praise Trump because if he doesn't he knows he will get crap canned. He has to walk a tight line between public safety and staying in his job where he can continue to advocate for science, and thus far, he has done a pretty good job.
As with all Presidents, the buck stops with Trump. Our country's disastrous response is his responsibility. COVID has happened everywhere. Why are we the worst in the world?
-
That Monday's so-called news conference had more speakers than attendees was of little matter. Livestreamed by the far-right website Breitbart News, the video spread quickly, initially through conservative, anti-vaccination and government conspiracy groups. Within hours, it had reached over 20 million Facebook users.
This is why our country is f*cking doomed...
-
Ah yes, the old experts like Tony Fauci who in February proudly proclaimed the risk of Coronavirus in the US is "miniscule" and laughed at needing masks(and no that wasn't so there were enough for front line workers, he said flat out we didn't need them". Or in March when he did an interview and said the response of the Trump administration was "impressive". So now some radical lefts here are on the spot...and you don't get to have it both ways, which is it?? Trump admin failed when the EXPERT himself said in February no masks and risk miniscule(yet everyone blasts Trump because if he would have listened from the beginning, listened to who?? He WAS listening to Fauci then, that's what you idiots won't admit)?? Or...does Fauci have to bear significant responsibility for the disaster of a response(as so many claim)??
No, you don't get to play the "the science changes yadda yadda yadda card either". EVERYONE rails on him for not responding properly from the BEGINNING when the "expert" himself said it was nothing to worry about. So that's what we are using, from the beginning of this thing.
For the record, The WHO also tweeted out in February that Chinese scientists found no proof of human to human transmission.
So?? What do you radical left sycophants say?? This spin should be fantastic.
If you don't understand that what we know about a novel coronavirus and how it spreads can change, and continue to take quotes out of context, you aren't really interested in an honest discussion or to have your questions answered. Guru, yesterday's hydroxy episode shows you are easilly manipulated. You don't take time to research on your own. You let largely right wing social media do your thinking for you. There is really no use to you being here if all you're going to do is parrot talking points and make EVERYTHING political.
Regardless, what I was talking about was how we should have opened the economy up with more care a couple of months ago. We would be in a much better position had we done so. We should have used this as an opportunity to have a shared sense of purpose and national unity. But we didn't. I mean, we started to, but then it just broke down into the usual nonsense.
That's what other countries have done. Countries that have less resources than ours. Countries lead by both governments both on the left and the right. I mean, there are developing countries in Africa handling this better than we are. (You may have heard them referred to as "sh*thole countries" by others in the past.) So I am not suggesting extreme solutions that are out of the box here. I am suggesting common sense, science oriented, proven ways to mitigate. That's not a "radical left" point of view. That's common sense.
But we haven't chosen that route. We have decided that science be damned, we are just going to do whatever we want. And it's not working. That's why the economy stinks...that's why we are debating whether or not schools should be back in person...that's why we may not have college basketball this winter. We really have only ourselves to blame. The roadmap was right there, but we decided to off road it and now we are lost and hoping for a miracle.
-
Immanuel has been a vocal supporter of Trump on social media since 2016, and used Facebook and Twitter to spread conspiracy theories, including that the coronavirus was manufactured in China. She also operates the religious organization “Fire Power Ministries” from her Houston clinic, where she posts videos expressing extreme beliefs, including falsely attributing medical issues such as miscarriage, gynecological problems and impotence as stemming from spiritual possession by demon spirits.
-
And dreams about sex with demons.
The fact that this person became a poster child for Hydroxy and right wing conspiracy theorists.... and that to point out her shortcomings as a reliable source makes you radical left to some people.... all we really need to know about the divide in this country.
In no other first world country would she be taken seriously in any numbers beyond the flat earthers.
But America continues to have a large number of quack addicts.
-
And dreams about sex with demons.
The fact that this person became a poster child for Hydroxy and right wing conspiracy theorists.... and that to point out her shortcomings as a reliable source makes you radical left to some people.... all we really need to know about the divide in this country.
In no other first world country would she be taken seriously in any numbers beyond the flat earthers.
But America continues to have a large number of quack addicts.
See this is an example of just shutting down right wing beliefs because it doesn't fit their "science" narrative. Who is to tell a doctor that serious medical issues aren't from sleep sex with demons? Stop censoring deeply held conservative beliefs.
-
(I moved from the other thread.)
Another treatment drug advancing. I found in today's paper.
https://digital.olivesoftware.com/Olive/ODN/NewHavenRegister/Default.aspx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Rothberg
BIOTECHNOLOGY
State firm’s COVID-19 treatment advances
By Luther Turmelle
Contributed photo
Jonathan Rothberg is co-founder of AI Therapeutics, a Guilford-based company that is developing a treatment for COVID-19.
GUILFORD — A local pharmaceutical company developing a treatment for COVID-19 patients is entering Phase II of its efforts to get the drug approved by the federal Food and Drug Administration.
AI Therapeutics is working with Yale University to conduct the Phase II study on newly diagnosed COVID-19 patients. The study will evaluate the safety, tolerability and efficacy of its drug candidate, LAM-002A, also known as apilimod.
In Phase II studies, researchers administer the drug candidate to a group of patients with the disease or condition for which it is being developed.
These studies typically involve a few hundred patients, according to FDA officials, and aren’t large enough to show whether the drug will be beneficial. AI Therapeutics’ Phase II study will enroll up to 142 patients.
The drug was proven safe in previous trials involving more than 700 patients for treatment of autoimmune diseases and follicular lymphoma, according to a press release from Yale University. The FDA has given the drug fast-track status and has designated it an orphan drug for treatment of lymphoma.
LAM-002A has been shown in several studies to interfere with the entry and trafficking of the SARS-CoV-2 virus in cells, according to company officials. SARS-CoV-2 is the virus responsible for COVID-19.
AI Therapeutics develops drug candidates through a proprietary artificial intelligence algorithm for matching drugs to new indications.
Jonathan Rothberg, AI Therapeutics’ co-founder and a member of the company’s board of directors, said the company’s employees are doing all they can “to make sure our drug, LAM-002, has the best shot to help (treat the disease).”
“Working with Yale is the perfect place to start,” said Rothberg, who also is an adjunct professor of genetics at the university. He is best known in the Connecticut business community as having created nine companies, including CuraGen Corp.
“LAM-002A holds promise to be a powerful new therapy for COVID-19 patients to prevent progression of disease, hopefully avoiding the need for hospitalization,” said Murat Gunel, professor of neurosurgery and professor of genetics and neuroscience at Yale. Gunel is AI Therapeutics’ chief science adviser and has a financial interest in the company.
Gunel said if the trial is successful, it could be expanded to assess whether it would help prevent someone who is exposed to the coronavirus from coming down with COVID, particularly in high-risk populations such as the elderly in nursing homes, health care and front-line workers, or people in underserved communities, according to the Yale release.
Dr. Charles Dela Cruz, director of the Center for Pulmonary Infection Research at Yale University, said working with the university provides AI Therapeutics with an “outpatient treatment option for patients who are symptomatic in order to prevent progression of disease and hospitalization for COVID-19.” Dela Cruz is the principal investigator of the clinical trial.
As the clinical trial is progressing, AI Therapeutics is preparing to make the LAM-002 accessible: It has 70,000 doses ready to go, 70,000 on the way, and the compound is being prepared for nearly 5 million more doses.
luther.turmelle@hearstmedia ct.com
-
Fauci has to publicly praise Trump because if he doesn't he knows he will get crap canned. He has to walk a tight line between public safety and staying in his job where he can continue to advocate for science, and thus far, he has done a pretty good job.
As with all Presidents, the buck stops with Trump. Our country's disastrous response is his responsibility. COVID has happened everywhere. Why are we the worst in the world?
Spin #1 ;D Completely letting Fauci off the hook. #2, not obviously understanding Fauci doesn't work for the Government so he has no need to worry about getting fired by anyone.
-
Ah yes, the old experts like Tony Fauci who in February proudly proclaimed the risk of Coronavirus in the US is "miniscule" and laughed at needing masks(and no that wasn't so there were enough for front line workers, he said flat out we didn't need them". Or in March when he did an interview and said the response of the Trump administration was "impressive". So now some radical lefts here are on the spot...and you don't get to have it both ways, which is it?? Trump admin failed when the EXPERT himself said in February no masks and risk miniscule(yet everyone blasts Trump because if he would have listened from the beginning, listened to who?? He WAS listening to Fauci then, that's what you idiots won't admit)?? Or...does Fauci have to bear significant responsibility for the disaster of a response(as so many claim)??
No, you don't get to play the "the science changes yadda yadda yadda card either". EVERYONE rails on him for not responding properly from the BEGINNING when the "expert" himself said it was nothing to worry about. So that's what we are using, from the beginning of this thing.
For the record, The WHO also tweeted out in February that Chinese scientists found no proof of human to human transmission.
So?? What do you radical left sycophants say?? This spin should be fantastic.
From mid-March on, your emperor and Fauci went on diverging paths.
Fauci, a scientist, realized he had underestimated the severity of this coronavirus. He admitted his mistakes. He started pushing hard for mask mandates. He said the economy needed to shut down for an extended time until numerous guidelines and benchmarks had been met. He expressed disappointment and concern when, after re-opening started, Americans got together en masse, totally ignoring guidelines. As we got to late spring and early summer, he repeatedly sounded alarms about the poor handling of the pandemic. Rather than listen to him, the administration began putting together a smear campaign against him.
Let's compare that to President Pandemic ...
In February, he was lying daily about there soon being no cases, about him having it "under control," about there being absolutely no cause for concern. By mid-March, he and Fauci were on completely different paths.
Almost as soon as he begrudgingly agreed the economy had to be shut down, he started pushing for it to re-open before Easter even though science -- and Fauci -- told him that would be unwise. He would let Fauci talk for a couple of minutes at the briefings and then would shove Fauci aside so he could make incoherent ramblings for an hour or more about the "Kung Flu" and about injecting Lysol into human lungs.
He insisted that he, alone, had "total authority" to re-open the country ... until something messy like the Constitution got in his way. He threatened governors that he would withhold PPE and ventilators if they weren't "nice" to him. He put Jared in charge of dealing with COVID-19 -- and why not, Jared had brought peace to the Middle East! Jared almost immediately declared that the administration's response had been a great "success."
On April 16, after one of his minions finally convinced him that the Constitution gives governors, not the president, authority to re-open states, he calmly and effectively went through a list of guidelines for states to re-open. The guidelines were detailed, and included numerous benchmarks that had to be met. It probably was his single most "presidential" act since taking office,
On April 17, about 15 hours later, he tweeted that armed protesters were right to descend on state capitals. LIBERATE MINNESOTA! LIBERATE MICHIGAN! LIBERATE VIRGINIA! Which would have been bad enough except that Minnesota, Michigan and Virginia were nowhere near having achieved the guidelines and benchmarks that he himself had so carefully laid out the day before. That act alone sent the message to a huge swath of America: Don't worry about the virus, kids, we'll be re-opening soon!
One by one, he got all the red-state governors to open well before the science said it was prudent; Fauci disagreed with this at every turn. Almost all of those governors have had to retreat, closing down parts of their economies, enacting mask mandates, etc. All the while, he insisted: "I don't take responsibility at all."
He not only refused to wear a mask, he mocked the very idea of mask-wearing. This was months after the initial spin that masks were bad, something medical people were saying because they didn't want a run on masks that would have kept first-responders from getting them. By April, any scientist, epidemiologist and doctor with any real credentials -- including Fauci and Birx -- had agreed that masks were an effective way to battle the coronavirus. But President Pandemic wasn't having it. He refused to wear a mask even when visiting a mask factory that required all visitors to wear masks. About a month ago, he claimed that people were wearing masks only to signal disapproval with him. Because, you know, it's always, always, always about him.
By early June, your emperor stopped talking about the pandemic almost completely -- except, occasionally, to bring out his inner racist and call it the Kung Flu. He just declared victory and moved on to an epic failure in his next crisis, the one involving race relations. His pièce de résistance was having his militia violently attack peaceful protesters so he could stage a photo-op with a bible he held upside down; just minutes earlier, he had lied about being "an ally of all peaceful protesters."
In the ensuing weeks, he pretended the coronavirus no longer existed. He went back to golfing regularly and he decided to stage a mega-rally in Tulsa on June 20. No masks. No social distancing. A million people wanted to go! Fortunately (and humiliatingly for him), there were about 994,000 fewer than a million people there -- though hundreds did end up getting infected with Trump Flu, including many from his own detail.
He got irate when the NC governor wouldn't promise that the RNC could be held in a packed Spectrum Center with no masks and no social distancing. Although Fauci agreed with the governor, President Pandemic called the governor every name in the book and petulantly took the convention to Jacksonville ... where not much later he would have to cancel it because Florida -- a state governed by one of his main toadies -- has been overrun by COVID-19.
His poll numbers tanking and desperation setting in, he finally, just a few days ago, started acting like a president who cares about the health and well-being of Americans. Most folks, however, are smart enough to see through the phoniness after 6 months of totally downplaying it -- which is why he trails badly in almost every poll, even those taken by right-leaning outfits like Rasmussen and Fox News.
So there, guru, is the difference between Anthony Fauci and your emperor.
You're welcome.
-
From mid-March on, your emperor and Fauci went on diverging paths.
Fauci, a scientist, realized he had underestimated the severity of this coronavirus. He admitted his mistakes. He started pushing hard for mask mandates. He said the economy needed to shut down for an extended time until numerous guidelines and benchmarks had been met. He expressed disappointment and concern when, after re-opening started, Americans got together en masse, totally ignoring guidelines. As we got to late spring and early summer, he repeatedly sounded alarms about the poor handling of the pandemic. Rather than listen to him, the administration began putting together a smear campaign against him.
Let's compare that to President Pandemic ...
In February, he was lying daily about there soon being no cases, about him having it "under control," about there being absolutely no cause for concern. By mid-March, he and Fauci were on completely different paths.
Almost as soon as he begrudgingly agreed the economy had to be shut down, he started pushing for it to re-open before Easter even though science -- and Fauci -- told him that would be unwise. He would let Fauci talk for a couple of minutes at the briefings and then would shove Fauci aside so he could make incoherent ramblings for an hour or more about the "Kung Flu" and about injecting Lysol into human lungs.
He insisted that he, alone, had "total authority" to re-open the country ... until something messy like the Constitution got in his way. He threatened governors that he would withhold PPE and ventilators if they weren't "nice" to him. He put Jared in charge of dealing with COVID-19 -- and why not, Jared had brought peace to the Middle East! Jared almost immediately declared that the administration's response had been a great "success."
On April 16, after one of his minions finally convinced him that the Constitution gives governors, not the president, authority to re-open states, he calmly and effectively went through a list of guidelines for states to re-open. The guidelines were detailed, and included numerous benchmarks that had to be met. It probably was his single most "presidential" act since taking office,
On April 17, about 15 hours later, he tweeted that armed protesters were right to descend on state capitals. LIBERATE MINNESOTA! LIBERATE MICHIGAN! LIBERATE VIRGINIA! Which would have been bad enough except that Minnesota, Michigan and Virginia were nowhere near having achieved the guidelines and benchmarks that he himself had so carefully laid out the day before. That act alone sent the message to a huge swath of America: Don't worry about the virus, kids, we'll be re-opening soon!
One by one, he got all the red-state governors to open well before the science said it was prudent; Fauci disagreed with this at every turn. Almost all of those governors have had to retreat, closing down parts of their economies, enacting mask mandates, etc. All the while, he insisted: "I don't take responsibility at all."
He not only refused to wear a mask, he mocked the very idea of mask-wearing. This was months after the initial spin that masks were bad, something medical people were saying because they didn't want a run on masks that would have kept first-responders from getting them. By April, any scientist, epidemiologist and doctor with any real credentials -- including Fauci and Birx -- had agreed that masks were an effective way to battle the coronavirus. But President Pandemic wasn't having it. He refused to wear a mask even when visiting a mask factory that required all visitors to wear masks. About a month ago, he claimed that people were wearing masks only to signal disapproval with him. Because, you know, it's always, always, always about him.
By early June, your emperor stopped talking about the pandemic almost completely -- except, occasionally, to bring out his inner racist and call it the Kung Flu. He just declared victory and moved on to an epic failure in his next crisis, the one involving race relations. His pièce de résistance was having his militia violently attack peaceful protesters so he could stage a photo-op with a bible he held upside down; just minutes earlier, he had lied about being "an ally of all peaceful protesters."
In the ensuing weeks, he pretended the coronavirus no longer existed. He went back to golfing regularly and he decided to stage a mega-rally in Tulsa on June 20. No masks. No social distancing. A million people wanted to go! Fortunately (and humiliatingly for him), there were about 994,000 fewer than a million people there -- though hundreds did end up getting infected with Trump Flu, including many from his own detail.
He got irate when the NC governor wouldn't promise that the RNC could be held in a packed Spectrum Center with no masks and no social distancing. Although Fauci agreed with the governor, President Pandemic called the governor every name in the book and petulantly took the convention to Jacksonville ... where not much later he would have to cancel it because Florida -- a state governed by one of his main toadies -- has been overrun by COVID-19.
His poll numbers tanking and desperation setting in, he finally, just a few days ago, started acting like a president who cares about the health and well-being of Americans. Most folks, however, are smart enough to see through the phoniness after 6 months of totally downplaying it -- which is why he trails badly in almost every poll, even those taken by right-leaning outfits like Rasmussen and Fox News.
So there, guru, is the difference between Anthony Fauci and your emperor.
You're welcome.
Facts don’t care about your feelings
-
If you don't understand that what we know about a novel coronavirus and how it spreads can change, and continue to take quotes out of context, you aren't really interested in an honest discussion or to have your questions answered. Guru, yesterday's hydroxy episode shows you are easilly manipulated. You don't take time to research on your own. You let largely right wing social media do your thinking for you. There is really no use to you being here if all you're going to do is parrot talking points and make EVERYTHING political.
Regardless, what I was talking about was how we should have opened the economy up with more care a couple of months ago. We would be in a much better position had we done so. We should have used this as an opportunity to have a shared sense of purpose and national unity. But we didn't. I mean, we started to, but then it just broke down into the usual nonsense.
That's what other countries have done. Countries that have less resources than ours. Countries lead by both governments both on the left and the right. I mean, there are developing countries in Africa handling this better than we are. (You may have heard them referred to as "sh*thole countries" by others in the past.) So I am not suggesting extreme solutions that are out of the box here. I am suggesting common sense, science oriented, proven ways to mitigate. That's not a "radical left" point of view. That's common sense.
But we haven't chosen that route. We have decided that science be damned, we are just going to do whatever we want. And it's not working. That's why the economy stinks...that's why we are debating whether or not schools should be back in person...that's why we may not have college basketball this winter. We really have only ourselves to blame. The roadmap was right there, but we decided to off road it and now we are lost and hoping for a miracle.
And....spin #2 well done Fluffy. Instead of saying ONE single word about Fauci's TERRIBLE response to this early, I apparently took his quotes out of context. That would be a 100% absolute falsehood. Hopefully the USA Today is legit enough source(likely not but I digress), and hopefully Faci's own words/quotes are a good enough source(or I guess I'm taking his own words out of context) https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/
Short of that, Fauci says skip the masks unless you are contagious, don't worry about catching anything from Chinese products and certainly don't avoid Chinese people or restaurants. Huh, who knew?? I guess I'm taking that out of context most likely.
•Masks. The only people who need masks are those who are already infected to keep from exposing others. The masks sold at drugstores aren't even good enough to truly protect anyone, Fauci said.
"If you look at the masks that you buy in a drug store, the leakage around that doesn't really do much to protect you," he said. "People start saying, 'Should I start wearing a mask?' Now, in the United States, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to wear a mask."[/size] Obviously I'm taking that direct quote out of context
Fauci doesn't want people to worry about coronavirus, the danger of which is "just minuscule." But he does want them to take precautions against the "influenza outbreak, which is having its second wave."
"We have more kids dying of flu this year at this time than in the last decade or more," he said.
I'm thinking the fact he said the risk was "miniscule" I totally took out of context, because obviously that HAD to have been bad orange man TELLING him to say that. Or maybe the fact that he was more worried about the flu than coronavirus I also took quotes out of context.
Again, people do NOT get to back track now and say "science changes" I see all over(on this board as well), all the people that say bad orange man has handled this terribly from the VERY BEGINNING or had he done this RIGHT AWAY. Uhhhh, this WAS in the beginning, these comments by the utmost "expert"(at least he is to libs) were made in mid February, at that point bad orange man had already closed the border. But you're right, I guess at that time he should have also MANDATED or even strongly suggested using masks even though Fauci laughed at the idea of needing them. Or, I guess maybe he should have taken it far more seriously even though Fauci had said the risk was "miniscule". Bad orange man for not being out in front of the experts on this, I know. Bad, bad, bad.
How DARE bad orange man follow the science(or scientist) then.
-
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/52/23/86/522386f96aeb113122bd8dfc5d681611.gif)
-
And....spin #2 well done Fluffy. Instead of saying ONE single word about Fauci's TERRIBLE response to this early, I apparently took his quotes out of context. That would be a 100% absolute falsehood. Hopefully the USA Today is legit enough source(likely not but I digress), and hopefully Faci's own words/quotes are a good enough source(or I guess I'm taking his own words out of context) https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/
Short of that, Fauci says skip the masks unless you are contagious, don't worry about catching anything from Chinese products and certainly don't avoid Chinese people or restaurants. Huh, who knew?? I guess I'm taking that out of context most likely.
•Masks. The only people who need masks are those who are already infected to keep from exposing others. The masks sold at drugstores aren't even good enough to truly protect anyone, Fauci said.
"If you look at the masks that you buy in a drug store, the leakage around that doesn't really do much to protect you," he said. "People start saying, 'Should I start wearing a mask?' Now, in the United States, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to wear a mask."[/size] Obviously I'm taking that direct quote out of context
Fauci doesn't want people to worry about coronavirus, the danger of which is "just minuscule." But he does want them to take precautions against the "influenza outbreak, which is having its second wave."
"We have more kids dying of flu this year at this time than in the last decade or more," he said.
I'm thinking the fact he said the risk was "miniscule" I totally took out of context, because obviously that HAD to have been bad orange man TELLING him to say that. Or maybe the fact that he was more worried about the flu than coronavirus I also took quotes out of context.
Again, people do NOT get to back track now and say "science changes" I see all over(on this board as well), all the people that say bad orange man has handled this terribly from the VERY BEGINNING or had he done this RIGHT AWAY. Uhhhh, this WAS in the beginning, these comments by the utmost "expert"(at least he is to libs) were made in mid February, at that point bad orange man had already closed the border. But you're right, I guess at that time he should have also MANDATED or even strongly suggested using masks even though Fauci laughed at the idea of needing them. Or, I guess maybe he should have taken it far more seriously even though Fauci had said the risk was "miniscule". Bad orange man for not being out in front of the experts on this, I know. Bad, bad, bad.
How DARE bad orange man follow the science(or scientist) then.
President Pandemic isn’t to blame for Trump Flu IMO
-
And....spin #2 well done Fluffy. Instead of saying ONE single word about Fauci's TERRIBLE response to this early, I apparently took his quotes out of context. That would be a 100% absolute falsehood. Hopefully the USA Today is legit enough source(likely not but I digress), and hopefully Faci's own words/quotes are a good enough source(or I guess I'm taking his own words out of context) https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/
Second sentence in the article you linked:
"If that testing shows the virus has slipped into the country in places federal officials don't know about, "we've got a problem," Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told USA TODAY's Editorial Board Monday."
Which is exactly what happened. The virus had "slipped into the country in places" federal officials didn't know about....and then we had a problem.
-
Ah yes, the old experts like Tony Fauci who in February proudly proclaimed the risk of Coronavirus in the US is "miniscule" and laughed at needing masks(and no that wasn't so there were enough for front line workers, he said flat out we didn't need them". Or in March when he did an interview and said the response of the Trump administration was "impressive". So now some radical lefts here are on the spot...and you don't get to have it both ways, which is it?? Trump admin failed when the EXPERT himself said in February no masks and risk miniscule(yet everyone blasts Trump because if he would have listened from the beginning, listened to who?? He WAS listening to Fauci then, that's what you idiots won't admit)?? Or...does Fauci have to bear significant responsibility for the disaster of a response(as so many claim)??
No, you don't get to play the "the science changes yadda yadda yadda card either". EVERYONE rails on him for not responding properly from the BEGINNING when the "expert" himself said it was nothing to worry about. So that's what we are using, from the beginning of this thing.
For the record, The WHO also tweeted out in February that Chinese scientists found no proof of human to human transmission.
So?? What do you radical left sycophants say?? This spin should be fantastic.
If only Trump had had a witchdoctor in February instead of Fauci.
The right's inability to feel shame or embarrassment is amazing.
-
From mid-March on, your emperor and Fauci went on diverging paths.
Fauci, a scientist, realized he had underestimated the severity of this coronavirus. He admitted his mistakes. He started pushing hard for mask mandates. He said the economy needed to shut down for an extended time until numerous guidelines and benchmarks had been met. He expressed disappointment and concern when, after re-opening started, Americans got together en masse, totally ignoring guidelines. As we got to late spring and early summer, he repeatedly sounded alarms about the poor handling of the pandemic. Rather than listen to him, the administration began putting together a smear campaign against him.
Let's compare that to President Pandemic ...
In February, he was lying daily about there soon being no cases, about him having it "under control," about there being absolutely no cause for concern. By mid-March, he and Fauci were on completely different paths.
Almost as soon as he begrudgingly agreed the economy had to be shut down, he started pushing for it to re-open before Easter even though science -- and Fauci -- told him that would be unwise. He would let Fauci talk for a couple of minutes at the briefings and then would shove Fauci aside so he could make incoherent ramblings for an hour or more about the "Kung Flu" and about injecting Lysol into human lungs.
He insisted that he, alone, had "total authority" to re-open the country ... until something messy like the Constitution got in his way. He threatened governors that he would withhold PPE and ventilators if they weren't "nice" to him. He put Jared in charge of dealing with COVID-19 -- and why not, Jared had brought peace to the Middle East! Jared almost immediately declared that the administration's response had been a great "success."
On April 16, after one of his minions finally convinced him that the Constitution gives governors, not the president, authority to re-open states, he calmly and effectively went through a list of guidelines for states to re-open. The guidelines were detailed, and included numerous benchmarks that had to be met. It probably was his single most "presidential" act since taking office,
On April 17, about 15 hours later, he tweeted that armed protesters were right to descend on state capitals. LIBERATE MINNESOTA! LIBERATE MICHIGAN! LIBERATE VIRGINIA! Which would have been bad enough except that Minnesota, Michigan and Virginia were nowhere near having achieved the guidelines and benchmarks that he himself had so carefully laid out the day before. That act alone sent the message to a huge swath of America: Don't worry about the virus, kids, we'll be re-opening soon!
One by one, he got all the red-state governors to open well before the science said it was prudent; Fauci disagreed with this at every turn. Almost all of those governors have had to retreat, closing down parts of their economies, enacting mask mandates, etc. All the while, he insisted: "I don't take responsibility at all."
He not only refused to wear a mask, he mocked the very idea of mask-wearing. This was months after the initial spin that masks were bad, something medical people were saying because they didn't want a run on masks that would have kept first-responders from getting them. By April, any scientist, epidemiologist and doctor with any real credentials -- including Fauci and Birx -- had agreed that masks were an effective way to battle the coronavirus. But President Pandemic wasn't having it. He refused to wear a mask even when visiting a mask factory that required all visitors to wear masks. About a month ago, he claimed that people were wearing masks only to signal disapproval with him. Because, you know, it's always, always, always about him.
By early June, your emperor stopped talking about the pandemic almost completely -- except, occasionally, to bring out his inner racist and call it the Kung Flu. He just declared victory and moved on to an epic failure in his next crisis, the one involving race relations. His pièce de résistance was having his militia violently attack peaceful protesters so he could stage a photo-op with a bible he held upside down; just minutes earlier, he had lied about being "an ally of all peaceful protesters."
In the ensuing weeks, he pretended the coronavirus no longer existed. He went back to golfing regularly and he decided to stage a mega-rally in Tulsa on June 20. No masks. No social distancing. A million people wanted to go! Fortunately (and humiliatingly for him), there were about 994,000 fewer than a million people there -- though hundreds did end up getting infected with Trump Flu, including many from his own detail.
He got irate when the NC governor wouldn't promise that the RNC could be held in a packed Spectrum Center with no masks and no social distancing. Although Fauci agreed with the governor, President Pandemic called the governor every name in the book and petulantly took the convention to Jacksonville ... where not much later he would have to cancel it because Florida -- a state governed by one of his main toadies -- has been overrun by COVID-19.
His poll numbers tanking and desperation setting in, he finally, just a few days ago, started acting like a president who cares about the health and well-being of Americans. Most folks, however, are smart enough to see through the phoniness after 6 months of totally downplaying it -- which is why he trails badly in almost every poll, even those taken by right-leaning outfits like Rasmussen and Fox News.
So there, guru, is the difference between Anthony Fauci and your emperor.
You're welcome.
;D All that bad reopening of red states and isn't it ironic that the WORST death totals are all in BLUE states. Weird.
You are going to be one miserable POS after he gets re elected, and I for one will be here to make sure EVERY SINGLE one of you radical left sycophants has to wallow in that misery. Count on it. That is unless of course because you are so miserable in America and hate the leader so much that you will up and move to a different country?? There's 200+ countires out there, if you hate it here so much and it's leadership, then it's simple...leave. You can't bitch and bitch about how bad it is and how miserable our leader is, then stay here. Why would anyone want to stay somewhere they aren't happy and obviously hate?? Unless of course they are complete and total HYPOCRITES and just like running their mouths but when it comes time to actually putting their money where there mouths are...they don't do anything.
You're welcome.
-
“Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.” ― Mark Twain
-
President Pandemic isn’t to blame for Trump Flu IMO
Nor is he to blame for the china virus coming into America, which most people on the left seem to think he is. That's weird that he somehow brought it here, isn't it??
-
Seriously people. Can you take your BS arguments to IM. Thanks.
-
If, however, my guy wins, I will welcome anyone, regardless of party, interested in moving the country forward.
-
Nor is he to blame for the china virus coming into America, which most people on the left seem to think he is. That's weird that he somehow brought it here, isn't it??
You gonna talk about that crazy witch doctor yet or no?
-
You gonna talk about that crazy witch doctor yet or no?
Oh, but her did!
After being told about her witchcraft claims and demon spirits stuff he said:
Of course...who wouldn't have guessed that all the same Radical left whack jobs that infiltrate these boards wouldn't immediately dismiss this as being bunk because they simply don't want to hear it. It's so freaking nauseating how none of you will EVEN consider an alternate opinion/theory simply because of your agendas against bad orange man, and that is ALL it is. It's like clockwork...if it's not what they want to believe(even though she's a doctor and we are just message board posters), bash, bash, bash and dismiss. Although Fluffy is the closest thing we have on these boards to Dr. Fauci...just ask him.
As well as:
So what you're saying is...it's not even REMOTELY possible, that she has in fact treated 350 patients with it and had a 100% success rate?? NOT even a smidge possible?? If no, you would know that how exactly Tony?? Did you witness her NEVER doing it?? Or, is it something else?? At least unlike a lot of you, I'm willing to listen and consider possibilities.
No sense of embarrassment, no sense of shame.
-
Oh, but her did!
After being told about her witchcraft claims and demon spirits stuff he said:
As well as:
No sense of embarrassment, no sense of shame.
I feel like the majority of her background came out in public since he's spoken. Plus all the dark money stuff
-
Is Laura Ingraham promoting a demon sperm treatment yet?
-
Is Laura Ingraham promoting a demon sperm treatment yet?
Pretty sure that’s how she was conceived.
-
Pretty sure that’s how she was conceived.
Good point.
-
Pretty sure that’s how she was conceived.
LOL! Post of the day.
-
Seriously people. Can you take your BS arguments to IM. Thanks.
And stop quoting the troll for those of us that had the good sense to put him on ignore.
-
The more you know. Beyond Stella.
Who Are 'America's Frontline Doctors'
https://gizmodo.com/who-are-americas-frontline-doctors-the-pro-trump-pro-1844528900
Dr. James Todaro may have a degree in medicine, but he’s pretty far from the frontlines of the pandemic right now. In fact, he hasn’t seen a patient since 2018, according to his own biographies online. What’s Mr. Todaro doing these days? He’s promoting bitcoin. Well, he’s promoting bitcoin and hydroxychloroquine, it would seem.
Todaro is largely credited with creating President Trump’s obsession with hydroxychloroquine in the first place, co-writing a paper on Google Docs with his friend and lawyer Gregory Rigano about the use of chloroquine in China on March 13. The paper went viral on right-wing Twitter and eventually made its way to Fox News, as often happens.
From Vanity Fair:
On March 16, Elon Musk tweeted a link to the Google Doc, writing: “Maybe worth considering chloroquine for C19.” On March 18, right-wing websites Breitbart and The Blaze picked up the story. On March 19, Rigano went on Fox News and told Tucker Carlson that a chloroquine study had shown “a 100% cure rate against coronavirus.”
-
guru, bro, I think we're going to need to put you on suicide watch in November.
You're an MU basketball fan, but I'm glad you don't own a degree from Marquette. I'd have to set mine on fire on principle alone.
You're a layman who is arguing with health science graduates and medical professionals.
You're so far out of your league intellectually that it is beyond unintentionally humorous.
It's absolutely depressing that there are people like you who can't grasp reality because they've been played so well.
You should stick to recruiting news, and leave the adult talk to the adults.
Sorry not sorry if this crosses the personal attacks line. But guru adds nothing to any of these conversations, and since he's been allowed to wreck this topic, I'm fine with whatever.
-
It's absolutely depressing that there are people like you who can't grasp reality because they've been played so well.
Obviously you don't get it. HCQ *is* the covid cure, and the rest of the world is just too dumb to figure that out after 8 months. The only reason the world is that dumb, is because they all hate Trump that much and are willing to sacrifice millions of lives because they would never want to admit he was right. THE ENTIRE WORLD. Let that sink in. I'll hang up and listen now...
-
Spin #1 ;D Completely letting Fauci off the hook. #2, not obviously understanding Fauci doesn't work for the Government so he has no need to worry about getting fired by anyone.
He works for NIH you nimrod
-
guru, bro, I think we're going to need to put you on suicide watch in November.
You're an MU basketball fan, but I'm glad you don't own a degree from Marquette. I'd have to set mine on fire on principle alone.
You're a layman who is arguing with health science graduates and medical professionals.
You're so far out of your league intellectually that it is beyond unintentionally humorous.
It's absolutely depressing that there are people like you who can't grasp reality because they've been played so well.
You should stick to recruiting news, and leave the adult talk to the adults.
Sorry not sorry if this crosses the personal attacks line. But guru adds nothing to any of these conversations, and since he's been allowed to wreck this topic, I'm fine with whatever.
This is a relief. Imagine sharing a diploma with this fool
-
Obviously you don't get it. HCQ *is* the covid cure, and the rest of the world is just too dumb to figure that out after 8 months. The only reason the world is that dumb, is because they all hate Trump that much and are willing to sacrifice millions of lives because they would never want to admit he was right. THE ENTIRE WORLD. Let that sink in. I'll hang up and listen now...
It's all an international liberal ploy to sink the greatest country in the world. Its true I read all about it on Breitbart.
-
He works for NIH you nimrod
Hoo Boy...
Anthony Fauci, Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) one of the 27 different institutes and centers that make up the National Institutes of Health (NIH), an agency of the United States Department of Health and Human Services.
-
It's all an international liberal ploy to sink the greatest country in the world. Its true I read all about it on Breitbart.
you've been talking to my mom, I see. >:(
-
Rocket, guru, and Pace, your HCQ champion speaks!
https://twitter.com/stella_immanuel/status/1288460112651268096
Yes America! some need deliverance from demon sperm. Here’s the message, enjoy. https://youtu.be/CJrJG9xymts. There is saying in my village in Cameroon. ‘Nyangha de sleep trouble come wake am’.
https://twitter.com/stella_immanuel/status/1288266097842626560
The Daily Beast did a great job summarizing our deliverance ministry and exposing incubus and succubus. Thank you daily beast. If you need deliverance from these spirits. Contact us.
https://twitter.com/stella_immanuel/status/1287951663135952896
Hello Facebook put back my profile page and videos up or your computers with start crashing till you do. You are not bigger that God. I promise you. If my page is not back up face book will be down in Jesus name.
And in addition to witchcraft, Spirit wives and COVID, she can cure your...HICCUPS, too!https://twitter.com/stella_immanuel/status/1287542203213127686
Had two patients having hiccups. So I went digging on hiccups as a symptom of Covid and Lo and behold a study with hiccups and Covid that is treated with HCQ. An NIH study. I did not know NIH knew HCQ works on Covi
-
Rocket, guru, and Pace, your HCQ champion speaks!
https://twitter.com/stella_immanuel/status/1288460112651268096
Yes America! some need deliverance from demon sperm. Here’s the message, enjoy. https://youtu.be/CJrJG9xymts. There is saying in my village in Cameroon. ‘Nyangha de sleep trouble come wake am’.
https://twitter.com/stella_immanuel/status/1288266097842626560
The Daily Beast did a great job summarizing our deliverance ministry and exposing incubus and succubus. Thank you daily beast. If you need deliverance from these spirits. Contact us.
https://twitter.com/stella_immanuel/status/1287951663135952896
Hello Facebook put back my profile page and videos up or your computers with start crashing till you do. You are not bigger that God. I promise you. If my page is not back up face book will be down in Jesus name.
And in addition to witchcraft, Spirit wives and COVID, she can cure your...HICCUPS, too!https://twitter.com/stella_immanuel/status/1287542203213127686
Had two patients having hiccups. So I went digging on hiccups as a symptom of Covid and Lo and behold a study with hiccups and Covid that is treated with HCQ. An NIH study. I did not know NIH knew HCQ works on Covi
C'mon, T, don't make fun of their science. I can't get Facebook today!!
oops, sorry, I don't do Facebook.
-
Aliens Issue Statement Asserting That Sex with Them Does Not Spread the Coronavirus
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/aliens-issue-statement-asserting-that-sex-with-them-does-not-spread-the-coronavirus
-
Rocket, guru, and Pace, your HCQ champion speaks!
https://twitter.com/stella_immanuel/status/1288460112651268096
Yes America! some need deliverance from demon sperm. Here’s the message, enjoy. https://youtu.be/CJrJG9xymts. There is saying in my village in Cameroon. ‘Nyangha de sleep trouble come wake am’.
https://twitter.com/stella_immanuel/status/1288266097842626560
The Daily Beast did a great job summarizing our deliverance ministry and exposing incubus and succubus. Thank you daily beast. If you need deliverance from these spirits. Contact us.
https://twitter.com/stella_immanuel/status/1287951663135952896
Hello Facebook put back my profile page and videos up or your computers with start crashing till you do. You are not bigger that God. I promise you. If my page is not back up face book will be down in Jesus name.
And in addition to witchcraft, Spirit wives and COVID, she can cure your...HICCUPS, too!https://twitter.com/stella_immanuel/status/1287542203213127686
Had two patients having hiccups. So I went digging on hiccups as a symptom of Covid and Lo and behold a study with hiccups and Covid that is treated with HCQ. An NIH study. I did not know NIH knew HCQ works on Covi
Never once mentioned this woman.
-
Aliens Issue Statement Asserting That Sex with Them Does Not Spread the Coronavirus
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/aliens-issue-statement-asserting-that-sex-with-them-does-not-spread-the-coronavirus
What about demons in your sleep?
-
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/29/dr-fauci-says-all-the-valid-scientific-data-shows-hydroxychloroquine-isnt-effective-in-treating-coronavirus.html
1. White House coronavirus advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci said that all the “valid” scientific data shows hydroxychloroquine isn’t effective in treating Covid-19.
2. Fauci said that the public has “got to follow the science,” adding, “if a study that’s good comes out and shows efficacy and safety for hydroxychloroquine or any other drug that we do ... you accept the scientific data.”
-
Aliens Issue Statement Asserting That Sex with Them Does Not Spread the Coronavirus
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/aliens-issue-statement-asserting-that-sex-with-them-does-not-spread-the-coronavirus
Suspicious that they don't comment on the anal probes not causing the Coronavirus. I think they are hiding something.
edit: added teal for those challenged in noting sarcasm/humor.
-
Suspicious that they don't comment on the anal probes not causing the Coronavirus. I think they are hiding something.
Man and you sit on a review board for the NIH.
-
Seems legit.
-
Man and you sit on a review board for the NIH.
Do you think all jokes should be censored or just the ones that offend you?
-
Sits on the board of NIH AND can make a decent joke. (Swoon)
-
Turning Point USA is a far right “news” organization. They have been pumping out Covid misinformation for months.
Their founder just died of died from complications of the coronavirus.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/29/turning-point-usa-founder-dies-coronavirus-complications-387077
-
Vitamin D
Vitamin D helps the body fight coronavirus, major Israeli study claims
‘Sunshine’ vitamin is like a steroid, researcher says, urging public to head outdoors; another scientist urges caution, saying other factors may be at play
By NATHAN JEFFAY
27 July 2020, 12:02 am
https://www.timesofisrael.com/vitamin-d-helps-the-body-fight-coronavirus-major-israeli-study-claims/
-
Vitamin D
Vitamin D helps the body fight coronavirus, major Israeli study claims
‘Sunshine’ vitamin is like a steroid, researcher says, urging public to head outdoors; another scientist urges caution, saying other factors may be at play
By NATHAN JEFFAY
27 July 2020, 12:02 am
https://www.timesofisrael.com/vitamin-d-helps-the-body-fight-coronavirus-major-israeli-study-claims/
There have been a couple of studies like this. As long as people don't take megadoses, it truly is a case of what do you have to lose.
-
In case anyone was wondering.
(https://scontent.fmia1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/111607878_10222865095518655_5826579309783974203_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=T8mA9F2p1nEAX8GO66j&_nc_ht=scontent.fmia1-2.fna&oh=50233c079c67184076e1b97a0855de71&oe=5F47AC4E)
-
Vitamin D
Vitamin D helps the body fight coronavirus, major Israeli study claims
‘Sunshine’ vitamin is like a steroid, researcher says, urging public to head outdoors; another scientist urges caution, saying other factors may be at play
By NATHAN JEFFAY
27 July 2020, 12:02 am
https://www.timesofisrael.com/vitamin-d-helps-the-body-fight-coronavirus-major-israeli-study-claims/
I'd like to hear forgetful and Gooooo's thoughts on this study. Having adequate levels of vitamin D is good in and of itself, so it can't hurt (unless, as flyer said, you take too much), but it reading the article it sure sounds to me like there is a chance this is correlation rather than causation.
-
Wait for the scandal involving Kodak after trump “mysteriously” chose them yesterday to produce ingredients for pharmaceuticals.
-
Wait for the scandal involving Kodak after trump “mysteriously” chose them yesterday to produce ingredients for pharmaceuticals.
https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/hzsgwo/wtf_is_kodak/
-
Kodak stock volume has ranged from 52k to 215k shares per day since July 1. On Monday, the day before WH announcement, 1,645,000 shares traded hands.
-
Kodak stock volume has ranged from 52k to 215k shares per day since July 1. On Monday, the day before WH announcement, 1,645,000 shares traded hands.
Gotta make that money before America votes you out.
-
Wait for the scandal involving Kodak after trump “mysteriously” chose them yesterday to produce ingredients for pharmaceuticals.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=60696.0
-
I'd like to hear forgetful and Gooooo's thoughts on this study. Having adequate levels of vitamin D is good in and of itself, so it can't hurt (unless, as flyer said, you take too much), but it reading the article it sure sounds to me like there is a chance this is correlation rather than causation.
Many Americans are D deficient. Better to take your day's worth even in non covid times. D is fat soluble so you CAN go overboard, but it takes quite a bit to get to toxic levels.
IIRC having adequate vit D has shown to cause covid to be less severe.
-
Can't fix stupid
https://twitter.com/THEHermanCain/status/1279148294816428032
More being discovered about the positive results from Hydroxychloroquine.
Gohmert Says He Will Take Hydroxychloroquine For COVID-19, Flouting FDA Warning
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) said after testing positive for coronavirus Wednesday that he will take an anti-malaria drug as treatment, flouting the wisdom of experts who have cautioned against its use for COVID-19.
“My doctor and I are all in,” Gohmert said. - TPM
-
Can't fix stupid
https://twitter.com/THEHermanCain/status/1279148294816428032
More being discovered about the positive results from Hydroxychloroquine.
Gohmert Says He Will Take Hydroxychloroquine For COVID-19, Flouting FDA Warning
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) said after testing positive for coronavirus Wednesday that he will take an anti-malaria drug as treatment, flouting the wisdom of experts who have cautioned against its use for COVID-19.
“My doctor and I are all in,” Gohmert said. - TPM
As long as Gohmert really uses this stuff. I think it would worse if Gohmert touted Hydroxy then secretly did not use it. At least he is standing by his statements. I know the science isn't looking good for the stuff but hypocrites who tout it and do something else are worse.
-
As long as Gohmert really uses this stuff. I think it would worse if Gohmert touted Hydroxy then secretly did not use it. At least he is standing by his statements. I know the science isn't looking good for the stuff but hypocrites who tout it and do something else are worse.
Except that he has a mild case (no symptoms), and will probably end up recovering very quickly, which will give undue credence to the drug.
-
Except that he has a mild case (no symptoms), and will probably end up recovering very quickly, which will give undue credence to the drug.
Haha, that’s the whole point of the drug. When given early before the disease has had a chance to attack the body it is supposed to prevent it from further attacking normal cells.
At least that’s my layman understanding of it. Unlike the VA study and others where it was given to patients who were already in rough shape it won’t be very effective.
-
Haha, that’s the whole point of the drug. When given early before the disease has had a chance to attack the body it is supposed to prevent it from further attacking normal cells.
At least that’s my layman understanding of it. Unlike the VA study and others where it was given to patients who were already in rough shape it won’t be very effective.
Let's go through some chronology on HCQ claims:
Claimants: HCQ cures and prevents COVID
Scientists: We studied this claim in a clinical controlled study and found it provides no benefit.
Claimants: That's because you forgot to include Azithromycin, that's the key.
Scientists: We studied the combination of HCQ and Azithromycin in a controlled clinical study and found it provides no benefit but can lead to an increase in heart abnormalities.
Claimants: Well Azithromycin really isn't necessary, but you forgot the Zinc, the Zinc is the real key.
Scientists: We examined the addition of Zinc in a controlled clinical study and found it provides no benefit.
Claimants: That's because you aren't giving it early enough.
Scientists: We've studied it in controlled clinical studies as prophylaxis, and at different stages of treatment and found it has no benefit.
Claimants: Well what about these reports from doctors who claim it works for them.
Scientists: Those aren't controlled studies. They are anecdotal reports and/or retrospective analyses without proper data controls. We'd love for this to work, but we need to follow the data.
Claimants: See, you scientists are just trying to destroy the country by hiding a treatment from us that clearly works.
-
Haha, that’s the whole point of the drug. When given early before the disease has had a chance to attack the body it is supposed to prevent it from further attacking normal cells.
At least that’s my layman understanding of it. Unlike the VA study and others where it was given to patients who were already in rough shape it won’t be very effective.
Deploying early is very important. Thankfully I deployed my anti-alien forcefield at the edge of the solar system before the aliens could invade. It has been 100% effective. You're welcome.
Logic.
-
Let's go through some chronology on HCQ claims:
Claimants: HCQ cures and prevents COVID
Scientists: We studied this claim in a clinical controlled study and found it provides no benefit.
Claimants: That's because you forgot to include Azithromycin, that's the key.
Scientists: We studied the combination of HCQ and Azithromycin in a controlled clinical study and found it provides no benefit but can lead to an increase in heart abnormalities.
Claimants: Well Azithromycin really isn't necessary, but you forgot the Zinc, the Zinc is the real key.
Scientists: We examined the addition of Zinc in a controlled clinical study and found it provides no benefit.
Claimants: That's because you aren't giving it early enough.
Scientists: We've studied it in controlled clinical studies as prophylaxis, and at different stages of treatment and found it has no benefit.
Claimants: Well what about these reports from doctors who claim it works for them.
Scientists: Those aren't controlled studies. They are anecdotal reports and/or retrospective analyses without proper data controls. We'd love for this to work, but we need to follow the data.
Claimants: See, you scientists are just trying to destroy the country by hiding a treatment from us that clearly works.
There must have been enough evidence for the scientists to keep looking right?
-
There must have been enough evidence for the scientists to keep looking right?
Atta boy. Don't let facts or science get in the way of your belief.
"All the experiments failed, sir."
"Well, doesn't the fact that they even ran the experiments *prove* its real?"
Never give up, cheeks.
-
Atta boy. Don't let facts or science get in the way of your belief.
I’m just saying if it was such a slam dunk to not prescribe it because of AEs or lack of success why spend so much time, effort, and risk patients lives if it was a no brainer that it wasn’t going to work and in fact was putting the patient at increased risk?
-
There must have been enough evidence for the scientists to keep looking right?
That's why I keep taking snake oil. Sure there's loads of evidence it does nothing but I just don't think the right conditions for the benefits have been met yet.
I’m just saying if it was such a slam dunk to not prescribe it because of AEs or lack of success why spend so much time, effort, and risk patients lives if it was a no brainer that it wasn’t going to work and in fact was putting the patient at increased risk?
Because it was politicized and so people both physician and patient alike have fully bought into the hype without actual data.
-
I’m just saying if it was such a slam dunk to not prescribe it because of AEs or lack of success why spend so much time, effort, and risk patients lives if it was a no brainer that it wasn’t going to work and in fact was putting the patient at increased risk?
(https://cdn.psychologytoday.com/sites/default/files/styles/amp_metadata_content_image_min_1200px_wide/public/blogs/67492/2013/06/127024-126516.jpg?itok=r1savbPJ)
-
I’m just saying if it was such a slam dunk to not prescribe it because of AEs or lack of success why spend so much time, effort, and risk patients lives if it was a no brainer that it wasn’t going to work and in fact was putting the patient at increased risk?
No one has ever said the scientific trials weren't justified. Everyone on here said, to try all possible treatments. As Tower say's "keep sciencing". I've even spelled out on here the historic evidence for why this was examine in the first place (re. SARS cellular studies).
Where there has been criticism is in two places:
1) The President and the right politicizing COVID treatments, and prioritizing one treatment with weak evidence to support it above all others. That puts Americans at risk, and contaminates the scientific process. Scientists though ignored the politics, and tried everything anyway.
2) After all the scientific work was done, a complete refusal to accept the scientific results. Instead to constantly move the goalposts, instead of possibly accepting it just didn't work, and saying it was worth the try.
Why don't we see the same fire and drive for other possible treatments from those on the right, e.g. ivermectin, quercetin, lopinavir, nafamostat, and others.
-
I’m not very familiar with scientific studies, but is it fair to say if someone has the money to fund and you have people willing to conduct the study, you can study anything? Kind of like you just need x amount of money to file charges against someone, no matter how crazy?
I’m sure there’s also some value in studies that show this doesn’t work based on the narrative. Hopefully it does work, but so far it doesn’t seem like there’s much showing it does.
-
I’m not very familiar with scientific studies, but is it fair to say if someone has the money to fund and you have people willing to conduct the study, you can study anything? Kind of like you just need x amount of money to file charges against someone, no matter how crazy?
I’m sure there’s also some value in studies that show this doesn’t work based on the narrative. Hopefully it does work, but so far it doesn’t seem like there’s much showing it does.
This is also a large part of it.
The people who bought the HCQ need to offload it somewhere. Rich people don't become rich by working harder, typically.
-
No one has ever said the scientific trials weren't justified. Everyone on here said, to try all possible treatments. As Tower say's "keep sciencing". I've even spelled out on here the historic evidence for why this was examine in the first place (re. SARS cellular studies).
Where there has been criticism is in two places:
1) The President and the right politicizing COVID treatments, and prioritizing one treatment with weak evidence to support it above all others. That puts Americans at risk, and contaminates the scientific process. Scientists though ignored the politics, and tried everything anyway.
2) After all the scientific work was done, a complete refusal to accept the scientific results. Instead to constantly move the goalposts, instead of possibly accepting it just didn't work, and saying it was worth the try.
Why don't we see the same fire and drive for other possible treatments from those on the right, e.g. ivermectin, quercetin, lopinavir, nafamostat, and others.
That’s fair analysis, I would suggest it was politicized both from the right and left though. The whole fish tank cleaner debacle was when things started to get nasty around HCG (imo) and that was driven by the left To make it appear republicans were killing people.
Not sure why there isn’t more excitement or dialogue around the other treatments. I honestly would love to learn more about them, do they seem to be working?
-
That’s fair analysis, I would suggest it was politicized both from the right and left though. The whole fish tank cleaner debacle was when things started to get nasty around HCG (imo) and that was driven by the left To make it appear republicans were killing people.
Not sure why there isn’t more excitement or dialogue around the other treatments. I honestly would love to learn more about them, do they seem to be working?
I think you genuinely know why HCQ was pushed. And I think you know why there isn't more excitement around the other treatments.
-
That’s fair analysis, I would suggest it was politicized both from the right and left though.
Oh FFS...
-
I think you genuinely know why HCQ was pushed. And I think you know why there isn't more excitement around the other treatments.
It was pushed cause the President and a lot of people thought/hoped it would work.
Why do you think it was pushed?
-
Oh FFS...
What?!? You don’t think both sides are responsible for the partisan nature on your view of HCQ.
If that’s the case why is everyone so divided along party lines with their opinion of it.
-
It was pushed cause the President and a lot of people thought/hoped it would work.
Why do you think it was pushed?
Why do you think it was pushed.
-
What?!? You don’t think both sides are responsible for the partisan nature on your view of HCQ.
If that’s the case why is everyone so divided along party lines with their opinion of it.
They aren't. There's a divide among people who believe in science and those who believe in spirit/demon dream sex
-
What?!? You don’t think both sides are responsible for the partisan nature on your view of HCQ.
If that’s the case why is everyone so divided along party lines with their opinion of it.
Because one side believes it works due to the President touting it, while everyone else is smart and understands science. That's not "both sides."
-
Because one side believes it works due to the President touting it, while everyone else is smart and understands science. That's not "both sides."
You’re comment and Galway are perfect examples for why both sides share blame for the discourse around HCG being 100% in the gutter.
I think myself and the majority of folks on the right were pushing and hoping it would work cause it would save lives and hopefully but an end to a lot of the death and in so doing make Trump and his administration look good which would help his re-election.
I think naysayers of it hoped it wouldn’t work so it would make him look bad and they could call anyone who championed the use of it idiots and try to use it against him this fall.
While I’m disappointed and admitted once some of those early studies were released that it wasn’t the silver bullet I hoped for at least I was cheering for it to work cause that means it would have saved a lot of lives.
And advocating for the continued study of it to see if there is a place for it in the therapeutic profile of treating COVID Does not mean I drink dragon blood or whatever the poking fun phase currently is on scoop
-
You’re comment and Galway are perfect examples for why both sides share blame for the discourse around HCG being 100% in the gutter.
I think myself and the majority of folks on the right were pushing and hoping it would work cause it would save lives and hopefully but an end to a lot of the death and in so doing make Trump and his administration look good which would help his re-election.
I think naysayers of it hoped it wouldn’t work so it would make him look bad and they could call anyone who championed the use of it idiots and try to use it against him this fall.
I wanted it to work and stated as such. So you're wrong.
However, when it was shown not to work, I figured out that collectively we should move on. Others haven't.
-
I hope every new drug will be effective. I wish hydroxy was the answer to the COVID question. What I really hoped for is that our leaders would follow science and lead. So, getting used to disappointment. Got snake oil and demon sex dreams instead.
-
I hope every new drug will be effective. I wish hydroxy was the answer to the COVID question. What I really hoped for is that our leaders would follow science and lead. So, getting used to disappointment. Got snake oil and demon sex dreams instead.
Demon Sex Dreams sounds like a new band
-
I hope the Atlantic Ocean’s salt water can cure every disease in the world. If you don’t show support for the possibility that the Atlantic Ocean’s salt water might actually cure every disease in the world then you’re an extreme right who would rather see people die than be wrong that the Atlantic Ocean’s salt water does not cure every disease in the world.
Or something like that.
-
It was pushed cause the President and a lot of people thought/hoped it would work.
Why do you think it was pushed?
it was pushed because the federal government bought a massive supply for the federal stockpile and had to do something to unload the 100 million or so doses just lying around.
-
I’m not very familiar with scientific studies, but is it fair to say if someone has the money to fund and you have people willing to conduct the study, you can study anything? Kind of like you just need x amount of money to file charges against someone, no matter how crazy?
I’m sure there’s also some value in studies that show this doesn’t work based on the narrative. Hopefully it does work, but so far it doesn’t seem like there’s much showing it does.
There actually was a blind study done that I posted above if interested. I think I posted it last time pace was here with his ‘some people think...’
Apparently he has added A ‘both sides’ argument on top. Which is enough to fill out my same man new screen name bingo card and move on.
-
Here it is if anyone is interested.
Well there is this study they probably have to overcome.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638 (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638)
“We conducted a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial across the United States and parts of Canada testing hydroxychloroquine as postexposure prophylaxis.”
“We enrolled 821 asymptomatic participants. Overall, 87.6% of the participants (719 of 821) reported a high-risk exposure to a confirmed Covid-19 contact. The incidence of new illness compatible with Covid-19 did not differ significantly between participants receiving hydroxychloroquine (49 of 414 [11.8%]) and those receiving placebo (58 of 407 [14.3%]); the absolute difference was −2.4 percentage points (95% confidence interval, −7.0 to 2.2; P=0.35). Side effects were more common with hydroxychloroquine than with placebo (40.1% vs. 16.8%), but no serious adverse reactions were reported.“
-
I hope the Atlantic Ocean’s salt water can cure every disease in the world. If you don’t show support for the possibility that the Atlantic Ocean’s salt water might actually cure every disease in the world then you’re an extreme right who would rather see people die than be wrong that the Atlantic Ocean’s salt water does not cure every disease in the world.
Or something like that.
Well F my luck, I'm closer to the Gulf of Mexico. Any chance that sweet healing water mixes my way?
-
it was pushed because the federal government bought a massive supply for the federal stockpile and had to do something to unload the 100 million or so doses just lying around.
And scientists/physicians just said oh sure. F it, you want me to prescribe it ok, I’ll do it.
As if there is no other use for a drug that’s been around for 50 years.
-
And scientists/physicians just said oh sure. F it, you want me to prescribe it ok, I’ll do it.
As if there is no other use for a drug that’s been around for 50 years.
You're really giving physicians too much credit here. We've seen time after time the over prescribing of useless meds. Whether it opioid companies literally paying for lap dances for doctors , statens that have little to no actual data backing their use, Or over prescribing anti biotics leading to anti biotic resistant strains of diseases.
Why would a hyper politicized drug be any different when your back is against the wall during a pandemic and you assume that the government has done thorough research.
-
New treatment (Synthetic antibodies) starting trial.
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-clinical-trial-test-antibodies-other-experimental-therapeutics-mild-moderate-covid-19 (https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-clinical-trial-test-antibodies-other-experimental-therapeutics-mild-moderate-covid-19)
-
His facebook comments are hysterical. It's like reading scoop.
‘Sorry to burst the magic bubble’ says Florida lawmaker of hydroxychloroquine as he battles COVID-19
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200805/sorry-to-burst-magic-bubble-says-florida-lawmaker-of-hydroxychloroquine-as-he-battles-covid-19
After two weeks battling COVID-19, State Rep. Randy Fine (R-Palm Bay) posted on Facebook that he needed his lungs X-rayed as his symptoms now included a recurring fever and a hacking chest cough. He remarked that the hydroxychloroquine therapy he had been on proved ineffective.
“I’m over it,” Fine texted FLORIDA TODAY from his Holmes Regional Medical Center hospital bed on Monday. “People should be able to use it if they want. But people should stop pretending it is some kind of magic potion as well. If they need proof, look at me.”
-
Since we are now taking flawed studies as gospel.
New Covid-19 study, despite flaws, adds to case against hydroxychloroquine
https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/16/new-covid-19-study-despite-flaws-adds-to-case-against-hydroxychloroquine/
Hydroxychloroquine did not lead to faster symptom improvement among patients who had Covid-19 symptoms and were not hospitalized, according to a new study published Thursday in the Annals of Internal Medicine.
The study, a randomized controlled trial led by researchers at the University of Minnesota, adds to the evidence that the malaria drug, heralded as a treatment based on scant data early in the pandemic, has little utility in treating Covid-19.
-
Since we are now taking flawed studies as gospel.
New Covid-19 study, despite flaws, adds to case against hydroxychloroquine
https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/16/new-covid-19-study-despite-flaws-adds-to-case-against-hydroxychloroquine/
Hydroxychloroquine did not lead to faster symptom improvement among patients who had Covid-19 symptoms and were not hospitalized, according to a new study published Thursday in the Annals of Internal Medicine.
The study, a randomized controlled trial led by researchers at the University of Minnesota, adds to the evidence that the malaria drug, heralded as a treatment based on scant data early in the pandemic, has little utility in treating Covid-19.
Also, new research shows the old 2005 data indicating chloroquine could inhibit SARS infection in cell culture does to apply to lung cells and that expression of the key SARS regulatory enzyme in those cells blocks any function of chloroquine. Bottom line, it doesn't even work in cell culture, and would then have no efficacy in vivo.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2575-3
-
I stumbled on this because I was curious about how Houston was doing re:hospitalizations. This is great news if they can backup in a trial. Surprised it isn’t getting more attention. Anyone else hear of it?
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87990 (https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87990)
https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/08/05/houston-methodist-reports-rapid-recovery-of-covid-19-patients-with-new-drug/ (https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/08/05/houston-methodist-reports-rapid-recovery-of-covid-19-patients-with-new-drug/)
-
I have seen other articles out of the Houston area touting near 100% recovery rates with various treatments. I hope it works. I want a little more testing. If the drug does what it claims, then it could be a game changer. But I am not going to hold my breath.
-
'Henderson and colleagues at the National COVID-19 Convalescent Plasma Project proposed randomized controlled trials to the federal government in March to systematically study convalescent plasma, but weren’t approved."
"Meanwhile, the federal government was busy focusing on the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine. The FDA authorized its emergency use March 28 and rescinded it June 15 after scientists determined it neither safe nor effective to treat the virus."
https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/coronavirus/two-washington-u-doctors-lead-national-effort-to-study-new-covid-19-treatment/article_ccec0f56-4493-5a26-8601-45e35d364b2d.amp.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share&__twitter_impression=true
-
I stumbled on this because I was curious about how Houston was doing re:hospitalizations. This is great news if they can backup in a trial. Surprised it isn’t getting more attention. Anyone else hear of it?
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87990 (https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87990)
https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/08/05/houston-methodist-reports-rapid-recovery-of-covid-19-patients-with-new-drug/ (https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/08/05/houston-methodist-reports-rapid-recovery-of-covid-19-patients-with-new-drug/)
This seems intriguing to me. Small number of patients, but there would seem to be a solid biochemical basis for the VIP derivatives to have efficacy.
These are the types of treatments that probably should have been prioritized much earlier. Maybe they don't actually work, but I think the science behind this has a lot more validity than other treatments that were prioritized.
-
I stumbled on this because I was curious about how Houston was doing re:hospitalizations. This is great news if they can backup in a trial. Surprised it isn’t getting more attention. Anyone else hear of it?
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87990 (https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87990)
https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/08/05/houston-methodist-reports-rapid-recovery-of-covid-19-patients-with-new-drug/ (https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/08/05/houston-methodist-reports-rapid-recovery-of-covid-19-patients-with-new-drug/)
Thanks for passing this on. I agree it is weird this hasn't been more widely reported. Maybe too small of a sample size yet for it to get a lot of press?
-
I think the science behind this has a lot more validity than other treatments that were prioritized.
Like Lysol?
-
Vindication:
https://twitter.com/jonathanchait/status/1293881975409958913?s=19 (https://twitter.com/jonathanchait/status/1293881975409958913?s=19)
;D
-
Vindication:
https://twitter.com/jonathanchait/status/1293881975409958913?s=19 (https://twitter.com/jonathanchait/status/1293881975409958913?s=19)
That’s hilarious. Wonder if this will give our own HC license to post on his old (or most recent old) name.
;D
-
Clinical Trials of Coronavirus Drugs Are Taking Longer Than Expected
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/health/covid-19-antibody-treatments.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
As the coronavirus pandemic continues to wreak havoc in the United States and treatments are needed more than ever, clinical trials for some of the most promising experimental drugs are taking longer than expected.
Researchers at a dozen clinical trial sites said that testing delays, staffing shortages, space constraints and reluctant patients were complicating their efforts to test monoclonal antibodies, man-made drugs that mimic the molecular soldiers made by the human immune system.
As a result, once-ambitious deadlines are slipping. The drug maker Regeneron, which previously said it could have emergency doses of its antibody cocktail ready by the end of summer, has shifted to talking about how “initial data” could be available by the end of September.
And Eli Lilly’s chief scientific officer said in June that its antibody treatment might be ready in September, but in an interview this week, he said he now hopes for something before the end of the year.
——————————
Unfortunate, but totally predictable given the uncertainties of clinical trials, combined with the ongoing (and appalling) shortage of tests.
-
Study Hints, Can't Prove, Survivor Plasma Fights COVID-19
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/08/14/health/ap-us-med-virus-outbreak-blood-of-the-recovered.html?searchResultPosition=9
Mayo Clinic researchers reported a strong hint that blood plasma from COVID-19 survivors helps other patients recover, but it’s not proof and some experts worry if, amid clamor for the treatment, they'll ever get a clear answer.
More than 64,000 patients in the U.S. have been given convalescent plasma, a century-old approach to fend off flu and measles before vaccines. It's a go-to tactic when new diseases come along, and history suggests it works against some, but not all, infections.
There’s no solid evidence yet that it fights the coronavirus and, if so, how best to use it. But preliminary data from 35,000 coronavirus patients treated with plasma offers what Mayo lead researcher Dr. Michael Joyner on Friday called “signals of efficacy.”
-
Oh good.
https://www.axios.com/trump-covid-oleandrin-9896f570-6cd8-4919-af3a-65ebad113d41.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100
-
Oh good.
https://www.axios.com/trump-covid-oleandrin-9896f570-6cd8-4919-af3a-65ebad113d41.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100
“ It's embraced by Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson and MyPillow founder and CEO Mike Lindell, a big Trump backer, who recently took a financial stake in the company that develops the product.”
Remember when four years ago statements like this would have been assumed to be fiction?
-
Like the rest, I hope it works. I doubt it. Keep sciencing. Beware snake oil salesmen.
-
Oh good.
https://www.axios.com/trump-covid-oleandrin-9896f570-6cd8-4919-af3a-65ebad113d41.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100
This is absolutely garbage:
The big picture: It's part of a pattern in which entrepreneurs, often without rigorous vetting, push unproven products to Trump — knowing their sales pitches might catch his eye. Trump will then urge FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn to "look at" or speed up approval
.
-
Like the rest, I hope it works. I doubt it. Keep sciencing. Beware snake oil salesmen.
What did the witch doctor think about it, I wonder?
-
Like the rest, I hope it works. I doubt it. Keep sciencing. Beware snake oil salesmen.
Anderson Cooper absolutely evicerated Dr. MyPillow Guy.
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/512546-cnns-cooper-to-mypillow-ceo-you-really-are-like-a-snake-oil-salesman
-
Anderson Cooper absolutely evicerated Dr. MyPillow Guy.
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/512546-cnns-cooper-to-mypillow-ceo-you-really-are-like-a-snake-oil-salesman
Raving lunatic and con artist. Birds of a feather...
-
https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/08/18/covid-19-survivor-coronavirus-experimental-drug-leronlimab/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
-
https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/08/18/covid-19-survivor-coronavirus-experimental-drug-leronlimab/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Yeah, but what do witch doctors, Lou Dobbs and Dr. MyPillow think of it?
Seriously ... This is encouraging. I am glad it helped the woman in the video, and apparently other patients, too. If it saved even one life, it's a great thing. Like the doctor who was interviewed, I am optimistic about it and await results of scientific trials.
-
My Pillow clown probably did more for society when he was a coke head
-
This stinks, but I'm still hopeful longer-term.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/19/us/politics/blood-plasma-covid-19.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200819&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=36506&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
WASHINGTON — Last week, just as the Food and Drug Administration was preparing to issue an emergency authorization for blood plasma as a Covid-19 treatment, a group of top federal health officials including Dr. Francis S. Collins and Dr. Anthony S. Fauci intervened, arguing that emerging data on the treatment was too weak, according to two senior administration officials.
The authorization is on hold for now as more data is reviewed, according to H. Clifford Lane, the clinical director at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. An emergency approval could still be issued in the near future, he said.
Donated by people who have survived the disease, antibody-rich plasma is considered safe. President Trump has hailed it as a “beautiful ingredient” in the veins of people who have survived Covid-19.
But clinical trials have not proved whether plasma can help people fighting the coronavirus.
-
My Pillow clown probably did more for society when he was a coke head
Frankly, I'm still waiting for all the drive thru testing at CVS, Walgreens, Walmart and Target I was promised. Plus the contact tracing by Google.
Wait, hold on... it was just a commercial for those companies, you say? WHY HOW COULD THAT BE?
-
Expected
https://twitter.com/twittermoments/status/1272578311097548802?s=21
Inevitable
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1297148038385991680?s=21
-
Frankly, I'm still waiting for all the drive thru testing at CVS, Walgreens, Walmart and Target I was promised. Plus the contact tracing by Google.
Wait, hold on... it was just a commercial for those companies, you say? WHY HOW COULD THAT BE?
here ya go frank-a very simple search could find the answer to many of your questions -the cvs near me uses one of their two drive thru lanes for covid testing only. you've had to have seen this driving your seniors to their bingo et.al.
https://www.cvs.com/minuteclinic/covid-19-testing
-
It gets effen exhausting ...
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/article245162585.html?ac_cid=DM265468&ac_bid=1867225246
With Trump's political future hinging on his response to the COVID-19 pandemic and his promise to bring forth a vaccine by Election Day on Nov. 3, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration is now facing political pressure and rhetoric from the White House.
On Saturday, Trump suggested that employees at the FDA are attempting to sabotage his reelection by slowing down coronavirus research.
In a tweet, Trump said members of "the deep state" at the FDA are making it hard for drug companies to "get people in order to test the vaccines and therapeutics" and "obviously" want to delay progress until after Nov. 3, Election Day. He tagged FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn, appointed by Trump in 2019, in the tweet.
There's no evidence that the scientists and staff of the FDA are delaying treatments or vaccines that would likely prevent tens of thousands of deaths in the U.S. and across the world in service of a secret anti-Trump agenda.
-
It gets effen exhausting ...
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/article245162585.html?ac_cid=DM265468&ac_bid=1867225246
With Trump's political future hinging on his response to the COVID-19 pandemic and his promise to bring forth a vaccine by Election Day on Nov. 3, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration is now facing political pressure and rhetoric from the White House.
On Saturday, Trump suggested that employees at the FDA are attempting to sabotage his reelection by slowing down coronavirus research.
In a tweet, Trump said members of "the deep state" at the FDA are making it hard for drug companies to "get people in order to test the vaccines and therapeutics" and "obviously" want to delay progress until after Nov. 3, Election Day. He tagged FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn, appointed by Trump in 2019, in the tweet.
There's no evidence that the scientists and staff of the FDA are delaying treatments or vaccines that would likely prevent tens of thousands of deaths in the U.S. and across the world in service of a secret anti-Trump agenda.
President Pandemic could come out and say eat lead paint chips to ward off Covid and the cult would be eating lead paint chips by the wheelbarrow full.
-
I thought that sleeping on 'My Pillow' cured COVID.
-
Dumb and dangerous.
-
President Pandemic could come out and say eat lead paint chips to ward off Covid and the cult would be eating lead paint chips by the wheelbarrow full.
"The Obama administration backed off the promise of 100 million doses by October but pegged the number at 40 million."
"By mid-October, however, when the demand for the vaccine was at its highest, supply fell dramatically short, with as few as 11 million doses on hand,"
“It is purely a fortuity that this isn’t one of the great mass casualty events in American history,” Ron Klain, who was Biden’s chief of staff at the time, said of H1N1 in 2019. “It had nothing to do with us doing anything right. It just had to do with luck."
if this were during trump's term, they would have tried to impeach him...again
-
if this were during trump's term, they would have tried to impeach him...again
Yep. As your emperor said: "Leadership -- whatever happens, you're responsible."
Unless he's the supposed leader. Then it's Obama's fault, and Biden's fault, and China's fault, and the libs' fault, and Fauci's fault, and the governors' fault, and the media's fault, and Europe's fault, and ...
"I don't take responsibility at all."
Looking forward to his next lecture on leadership!
-
"The Obama administration backed off the promise of 100 million doses by October but pegged the number at 40 million."
"By mid-October, however, when the demand for the vaccine was at its highest, supply fell dramatically short, with as few as 11 million doses on hand,"
“It is purely a fortuity that this isn’t one of the great mass casualty events in American history,” Ron Klain, who was Biden’s chief of staff at the time, said of H1N1 in 2019. “It had nothing to do with us doing anything right. It just had to do with luck."
if this were during trump's term, they would have tried to impeach him...again
For what? People not dying?
I'm not exactly sure what you are getting at here. Obama may have been wrong and just got lucky? How does that exonerate a president who clearly was wrong and didn't get lucky?
Look, we all know what you are doing here. You are shifting goalposts to justify your 2016 and 2020 votes. And that's your right to do. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously about your evaluation of presidential performance in the future.
-
"The Obama administration backed off the promise of 100 million doses by October but pegged the number at 40 million."
"By mid-October, however, when the demand for the vaccine was at its highest, supply fell dramatically short, with as few as 11 million doses on hand,"
“It is purely a fortuity that this isn’t one of the great mass casualty events in American history,” Ron Klain, who was Biden’s chief of staff at the time, said of H1N1 in 2019. “It had nothing to do with us doing anything right. It just had to do with luck."
if this were during trump's term, they would have tried to impeach him...again
That has nothing to do with President Pandemic’s handling of this or his peddling a remedy that has proven not to be the cure or effective.
-
"The Obama administration backed off the promise of 100 million doses by October but pegged the number at 40 million."
"By mid-October, however, when the demand for the vaccine was at its highest, supply fell dramatically short, with as few as 11 million doses on hand,"
“It is purely a fortuity that this isn’t one of the great mass casualty events in American history,” Ron Klain, who was Biden’s chief of staff at the time, said of H1N1 in 2019. “It had nothing to do with us doing anything right. It just had to do with luck."
if this were during trump's term, they would have tried to impeach him...again
So more than 3 1/2 years into Trump's term and still the best you can do is 'But Obama.'
Step back and think about that....
-
Rocket, very nice of you to put out Biden talking points. He wants everybody to compare the responses. 12k versus 180k. Mobilizing the entire federal government versus blaming the states. Writing a guidebook versus ignoring and discarding it.
So, Uncle Joe says thanks.
-
Had H1N1 resulted in 175K+ dead Americans and millions of unemployed Americans on Obama’s watch, I’m sure rocket and the rest of Individual-1’s sycophants would have graciously said, “The president has no responsibility here at all. The Mexican Flu obviously was Mexico’s fault.”
-
This makes me sad since it was recycled from the early days. It just reinforces deflect and spin is a key element of the pandemic response.
-
"The Obama administration backed off the promise of 100 million doses by October but pegged the number at 40 million."
"By mid-October, however, when the demand for the vaccine was at its highest, supply fell dramatically short, with as few as 11 million doses on hand,"
“It is purely a fortuity that this isn’t one of the great mass casualty events in American history,” Ron Klain, who was Biden’s chief of staff at the time, said of H1N1 in 2019. “It had nothing to do with us doing anything right. It just had to do with luck."
if this were during trump's term, they would have tried to impeach him...again
Your premise is absurd on a number of fronts, but I'll still point out some flaws on the prediction side.
It takes a minimum of 5-6 months to develop, test and produce a flu vaccine. The virus was first identified in April of 2009. So the earliest it could be produced would have been October. They would have had the amounts they promised, but late in the manufacturing process, it was determined that this particular vaccine resulted in low yields in manufacturing. That couldn't possibly be known until late in the process.
It had nothing to do with administrative actions. Much of the problems the nation has faced is a direct result of poor administrative decisions, or a lack of action.
-
The lunatic tweets:
“The deep state, or whoever, over at the FDA is making it very difficult for drug companies to get people in order to test the vaccines and therapeutics. Obviously, they are hoping to delay the answer until after November 3rd. Must focus on speed, and saving lives! @SteveFDA”
-
here ya go frank-a very simple search could find the answer to many of your questions -the cvs near me uses one of their two drive thru lanes for covid testing only. you've had to have seen this driving your seniors to their bingo et.al.
https://www.cvs.com/minuteclinic/covid-19-testing
Good luck getting your test results in under 2 weeks.
-
Anyone have any idea on what will be announced at the "major COVID therapeutic breakthrough" press conference tonight? I can't think of anything that would be on the radar.
The vaccine trials still are far from even enrolled.
-
Scott Gottleib thinks it’s about plasma.
-
Rocket, very nice of you to put out Biden talking points. He wants everybody to compare the responses. 12k versus 180k. Mobilizing the entire federal government versus blaming the states. Writing a guidebook versus ignoring and discarding it.
So, Uncle Joe says thanks.
I am baffled (but not really, I guess, considering who makes these arguments) that 12,000 - 17,000 dead after 12 months is brought up as some sort of defense for Trump's results of 180,000 dead in 6 months.
-
Scott Gottleib thinks it’s about plasma.
Wouldn't surprise me. There have been conflicting reports on the preliminary results of the big convalescent plasma study, so it might be to highlight some positive news.
-
Wouldn't surprise me. There have been conflicting reports on the preliminary results of the big convalescent plasma study, so it might be to highlight some positive news.
According to the twitter machine you are indeed correct.
-
Or it might not be.
https://twitter.com/celinegounder/status/1297674721815867401?s=21
-
Or it might not be.
https://twitter.com/celinegounder/status/1297674721815867401?s=21
Yep. Very premature EUA approval without solid data. As a result, we may never know whether or how well it works.
Should have kept it in the clinical trial stage.
-
Did the witch doctor give this the thumbs up? Or is this a MyPillow Guy deal?
-
Yep. Very premature EUA approval without solid data. As a result, we may never know whether or how well it works.
Should have kept it in the clinical trial stage.
So not only was this not a breakthrough. The decision was the wrong decision.
-
And people wonder why so many say they will not take a vaccine.
-
Nm
-
Secretary of Failure strikes again.
Jared Kushner made a deal with Russia for ventilators during the COVID crisis, but every single machine was faulty
https://news.yahoo.com/jared-kushner-made-deal-russia-111103345.html
"Jared Kushner brokered a deal with the Russia for 45 ventilators to be brought to the US to help with the coronavirus crisis, all of which turned out to be faulty, according to a new report.
<snip>
ABC also reported that the shipment contained thousands of medical supplies that not commonly used by hospitals, like household cleaning gloves, and that Russia billed the US almost $660,000 for them.
Trump welcomed the equipment, saying at an April 2 press briefing that Putin offered him equipment in a phone call.
"He offered a lot of medical, high quality stuff that I accepted and that may save a lot of lives. I'll take it every day."
-
Secretary of Failure strikes again.
Jared Kushner made a deal with Russia for ventilators during the COVID crisis, but every single machine was faulty
https://news.yahoo.com/jared-kushner-made-deal-russia-111103345.html
"Jared Kushner brokered a deal with the Russia for 45 ventilators to be brought to the US to help with the coronavirus crisis, all of which turned out to be faulty, according to a new report.
<snip>
ABC also reported that the shipment contained thousands of medical supplies that not commonly used by hospitals, like household cleaning gloves, and that Russia billed the US almost $660,000 for them.
Trump welcomed the equipment, saying at an April 2 press briefing that Putin offered him equipment in a phone call.
"He offered a lot of medical, high quality stuff that I accepted and that may save a lot of lives. I'll take it every day."
You had me at Jared Kushner made a deal with Russia.
-
ABC also reported that the shipment contained thousands of medical supplies that not commonly used by hospitals, like household cleaning gloves, and that Russia billed the US almost $660,000 for them.
Trump welcomed the equipment, saying at an April 2 press briefing that Putin offered him equipment in a phone call.
"He offered a lot of medical, high quality stuff that I accepted and that may save a lot of lives. I'll take it every day."
Might be the first time ever that a bunch of Playtex gloves were referred to as "medical, high quality stuff."
-
Might be the first time ever that a bunch of Playtex gloves were referred to as "medical, high quality stuff."
He only bought them to use one finger -at all of us.
-
F.D.A. ‘Grossly Misrepresented’ Blood Plasma Data, Scientists Say
Many experts — including a scientist who worked on the Mayo Clinic study — were bewildered about where a key statistic came from.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/24/health/fda-blood-plasma.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
Mr. Trump called it a “tremendous” number. His health and human services secretary, Alex M. Azar II, a former pharmaceutical executive, said, “I don’t want you to gloss over this number.” And Dr. Stephen M. Hahn, the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, said 35 out of 100 Covid-19 patients “would have been saved because of the administration of plasma.”
But scientists were taken aback by the way the administration framed this data, which appeared to have been calculated based on a small subgroup of hospitalized Covid-19 patients in a Mayo Clinic study: those who were under 80 years old, not on ventilators and received plasma known to contain high levels of virus-fighting antibodies within three days of diagnosis.
What’s more, many experts — including a scientist who worked on the Mayo Clinic study — were bewildered about where the statistic came from. The number was not mentioned in the official authorization letter issued by the agency, nor was it in a 17-page memo written by F.D.A. scientists. It was not in an analysis conducted by the Mayo Clinic that has been frequently cited by the administration.
“For the first time ever, I feel like official people in communications and people at the F.D.A. grossly misrepresented data about a therapy,” said Dr. Walid Gellad, who leads the Center for Pharmaceutical Policy and Prescribing at the University of Pittsburgh.
----------------
In all my years of working in clinical research, I have never seen FDA so badly misrepresent the data provided to them by the researchers.
-
F.D.A. ‘Grossly Misrepresented’ Blood Plasma Data, Scientists Say
Many experts — including a scientist who worked on the Mayo Clinic study — were bewildered about where a key statistic came from.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/24/health/fda-blood-plasma.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
Mr. Trump called it a “tremendous” number. His health and human services secretary, Alex M. Azar II, a former pharmaceutical executive, said, “I don’t want you to gloss over this number.” And Dr. Stephen M. Hahn, the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration, said 35 out of 100 Covid-19 patients “would have been saved because of the administration of plasma.”
But scientists were taken aback by the way the administration framed this data, which appeared to have been calculated based on a small subgroup of hospitalized Covid-19 patients in a Mayo Clinic study: those who were under 80 years old, not on ventilators and received plasma known to contain high levels of virus-fighting antibodies within three days of diagnosis.
What’s more, many experts — including a scientist who worked on the Mayo Clinic study — were bewildered about where the statistic came from. The number was not mentioned in the official authorization letter issued by the agency, nor was it in a 17-page memo written by F.D.A. scientists. It was not in an analysis conducted by the Mayo Clinic that has been frequently cited by the administration.
“For the first time ever, I feel like official people in communications and people at the F.D.A. grossly misrepresented data about a therapy,” said Dr. Walid Gellad, who leads the Center for Pharmaceutical Policy and Prescribing at the University of Pittsburgh.
----------------
In all my years of working in clinical research, I have never seen FDA so badly misrepresent the data provided to them by the researchers.
Isn't this exactly what we expected to happen?
I believe the FDA (like the formerly great CDC agency) will further sell out in October and approve a vaccine that isn't ready.
The CDC has been silenced. The same absolutely WILL happen with the FDA.
-
The FDA is apologizing for having following President Pandemic's lead in overselling the convalescent plasma "cure."
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/08/25/905792261/fdas-hahn-apologizes-for-overselling-plasmas-benefits-as-a-covid-19-treatment
The Food and Drug Administration's chief has undercut the agency's assertion that it is basing its decisions on science, not politics.
At a White House event Sunday with President Trump, FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn used a deeply misleading statistic to claim that a treatment the agency had just authorized for treating the coronavirus would save 35 lives out of every 100 people who get the treatment.
That false claim has brought withering criticism from scientists, in news articles and on Twitter, who argue that it was a gross exaggeration of the benefits.
"I can't remember a mistake by FDA or the commissioner as serious as this one," Dr. Eric Topol of the Scripps Translational Research Institute tells NPR.
On Monday evening, Hahn tweeted an apology, saying "The criticism is entirely justified."
-
And people wonder why there is little trust in our institutions today to come to sound conclusions.
This plus the CDC head scratching decision on asymptomatic testing means our policy is back to ignore the pandemic and hope It doesn’t get out of control (again). Buckle up for fall.
-
And people wonder why there is little trust in our institutions today to come to sound conclusions.
This plus the CDC head scratching decision on asymptomatic testing means our policy is back to ignore the pandemic and hope It doesn’t get out of control (again). Buckle up for fall.
Interesting development in the last 24 hours with Abbott Labs. They have a new 15-minute, $5 test that, 2-3 months ago, the president would have been touting bigly, proclaiming it the next great thing that will make it possible for American society to reopen soon.
Indeed, when Abbott came out with a similar (but significantly less accurate test) back in May, he was over the top about how it could change the course of human events.
However, in the last month or so, he has gone into a full-out assault AGAINST testing. He has decided he doesn't like that tests have this nasty habit of finding out who has the coronavirus, thereby "increasing my numbers." So he has ordered a slow-down of testing, has bullied the CDC to come out with statements against testing, has claimed the FDA has "Deep State" individuals who are plotting against him, etc.
It's relentless and exhausting ... which might be part of the plan.
-
And people wonder why there is little trust in our institutions today to come to sound conclusions.
This plus the CDC head scratching decision on asymptomatic testing means our policy is back to ignore the pandemic and hope It doesn’t get out of control (again). Buckle up for fall.
I have been involved in the healthcare regulatory world for the past 25+ years. Up until recently, while I occasionally disagreed with FDA, CDC or other regulatory decisions, I always respected them and trusted that they had sound scientific reasons for the actions. In virtually all cases, this ultimately proved to be justified.
That trust has been eroded over the past year or two. First, CDC changing its back to school guidelines after criticism by POTUS that they were 'too tough.' More recently, FDA giving EUA to convalescent plasma even though the researchers themselves question the decision. And now CDC changing its testing guidelines, reportedly again under pressure from the Administration.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/26/us/politics/coronavirus-testing-trump-cdc.html
The reason for the erosion of trust is simple. The doctors and other scientists used to be allowed to do their jobs based on the science. Now, they are increasingly being forced to make political decisions.
-
And people wonder why there is little trust in our institutions today to come to sound conclusions.
This plus the CDC head scratching decision on asymptomatic testing means our policy is back to ignore the pandemic and hope It doesn’t get out of control (again). Buckle up for fall.
Frenn’s, that is NOT CDC policy. It is trump policy.
CDC has been turned into trump lackeys like everything else.
-
Policy of the administration is the policy. There may be competing opinions but there is only one policy. With of course the nuance that in this administration it changes dramatically and often.
-
Policy of the administration is the policy. There may be competing opinions but there is only one policy. With of course the nuance that in this administration it changes dramatically and often.
The CDC was never a political organization. They were a health organization. Presidents did not dictate their policy.
That has changed.
-
The WGN morning news Covid commentator, Dr. Robert Murphy from Northwestern, said he is ‘done’ with the CDC, this seemed like the last straw. He said today that the people working there are terrific but that the people running it have caved, basically.
-
The CDC was never a political organization. They were a health organization. Presidents did not dictate their policy.
That has changed.
Affirmative.
-
Annnnnnd ... continuing a pattern of President Pandemic bullying what's supposed to be science-based organizations into making politically motivated changes that are bad for Americans ... only to see the heads of those organizations realize that the changes have gone too far ...
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/public-global-health/513946-cdc-director-walks-back-change-in-coronavirus-testing
The director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on Thursday issued new guidance for coronavirus testing, days after a quiet change sparked protests from the scientific and medical communities.
In a statement, Director Robert Redfield said those who come into contact with confirmed or probable COVID-19 patients could be tested themselves, even if they do not show symptoms of the virus.
“Testing is meant to drive actions and achieve specific public health objectives. Everyone who needs a COVID-19 test, can get a test. Everyone who wants a test does not necessarily need a test; the key is to engage the needed public health community in the decision with the appropriate follow-up action,” Redfield said.
The CDC revised its testing guidance earlier this week, limiting tests to those who show symptoms. That change prompted backlash among public health experts who pointed to the role asymptomatic people play in spreading the virus, and concern that the revision had been dictated by political appointees outside of CDC.
-
The WGN morning news Covid commentator, Dr. Robert Murphy from Northwestern, said he is ‘done’ with the CDC, this seemed like the last straw. He said today that the people working there are terrific but that the people running it have caved, basically.
I would encourage everyone to ignore and avoid official CDC policy. It all comes from the WH.
Listen to Fauci. Even listen to Birx. But avoid CDC.
-
I would encourage everyone to ignore and avoid official CDC policy. It all comes from the WH.
Listen to Fauci. Even listen to Birx. But avoid CDC.
This has been a weird past few months for the CDC.
It's like regulatory capture, but in a way that directly harms US heath and the US economy.
-
This has been a weird past few months for the CDC.
It's like regulatory capture, but in a way that directly harms US heath and the US economy.
Even in the early days of this it was clear Redfield is not up to the challenge of leading the agency. Everyone latched on to Fauci in the early hearings that changed everything, but redfield was right there. He just didn’t say anything useful and everything they have tried to do has blown up.
I still feel bad that they censored Nancy Messonior (Rod Rosensteins sister) for warning everyone on what was coming.
-
I still feel bad that they censored Nancy Messonior (Rod Rosensteins sister) for warning everyone on what was coming.
Yup, this was the last CDC briefing that really mattere:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/t0225-cdc-telebriefing-covid-19.html
Now I’d like to talk through some examples of what community NPIs look like. These are practical measures that can help limit exposure by reducing exposure in community settings. Students in smaller groups or in a severe pandemic, closing schools and using internet-based teleschooling to continue education. For adults, businesses can replace in-person meetings with video or telephone conferences and increase teleworking options. On a larger scale, communities may need to modify, postpone, or cancel mass gatherings. Looking at how to increase telehealth services and delaying elective surgery. The implementation of environmental NPIs would require everyone to consistently clean frequently touched surfaces and objects at home, at school, at work, and at large gatherings. Local communities will need to look at which NPIs to implement and when based on how transmission and disease is and what can be done locally. This will require flexibility and adaptations as disease progresses and new information becomes available. Some of these measures are better than none. But the maximum benefit occurs when the elements are layered upon each other. Some community level interventions that may be most effective in reducing the spread of a new virus like school closures are also the most likely to be associated with unwanted consequences and further disruptions. Secondary consequences of some of these measures might include missed work and loss of income. I understand this whole situation may seem overwhelming and that disruption to everyday life may be severe. But these are things that people need to start thinking about now. I had a conversation with my family over breakfast this morning and I told my children that while I didn’t think that they were at risk right now, we as a family need to be preparing for significant disruption of our lives. You should ask your children’s school about their plans for school dismissals or school closures. If ask if there are plans for teleschool. I contacted my local school superintendent this morning with exactly those questions. You should think about what you would do for childcare if schools or day cares close. If teleworking is an option for you. All of these questions can help you be better prepared for what might happen. CDC and other federal agencies have been practicing for this since the 2019 influenza pandemic. In the last two years, CDC has engaged in two pandemic influenza exercises that have required us to prepare for a severe pandemic and just this past year we had a whole of government exercise practicing similarly around a pandemic of influenza. Right now CDC is operationalizing all of its pandemic response plans working on multiple fronts including specific measures to prepare communities to respond to local transmission of the virus that causes COVID-19. Before I take questions, I want to address the issue of the test kits CDC is developing. I am frustrated like I know many of you are that we have had issues with our test. I want to assure you that we are working to modify the kit and hope to send out a new version to state and local jurisdictions soon. There are currently 12 states or localities around the U.S. That can test samples as well as we are testing at CDC 400 samples were tested overnight. There is no current backlog or delay for testing at CDC. Commercial labs will also be coming online soon with their own tests. This will allow the greatest number of tests to happen closer to where potential cases are. Last, I want to recognize that people are concerned about this situation. I would say rightfully so. I’m concerned about the situation. CDC is concerned about the situation. But we are putting our concerns to work preparing. And now is the time for businesses, hospitals, community schools, and everyday people to begin preparing as well. Over the last few weeks, CDC has been on dozens of calls with different partners in the health, retail, education, and business sectors. In the hopes that employers begin to respond in a flexible way to differing levels of severity, to refine their business response plans as needed. I also want to acknowledge the importance of uncertainty. During an outbreak with a new virus, there is a lot of uncertainty. Our guidance and advice are likely to be fluid subject to change as we learn more. We will continue to keep you updated.
-
Thank goodness the REAL coronavirus crisis is being taken care of!
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/28/world/covid-19-coronavirus.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200828&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=37111&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
Two P.R. experts at the F.D.A. have been removed after the fiasco over convalescent plasma.
Two senior public relations experts advising the Food and Drug Administration have been fired from their positions after President Trump and the head of the F.D.A. exaggerated the proven benefits of a blood plasma treatment for Covid-19.
On Friday, the F.D.A. commissioner, Dr. Stephen M. Hahn, removed Emily Miller as the agency’s chief spokeswoman. The White House had installed her in the post just 11 days earlier. Ms. Miller had previously worked in communications for the re-election campaign of Senator Ted Cruz and as a journalist for the conservative cable network One America News. Ms. Miller could not be reached for comment.
The New York Times correspondents Sheila Kaplan and Katie Thomas report that Ms. Miller’s termination comes one day after the F.D.A.’s parent agency, the Department of Health and Human Services, terminated the contract of another public relations consultant, Wayne L. Pines, who had advised Dr. Hahn to apologize for misleading comments about the benefits of blood plasma for Covid-19.
“I did recommend that he correct the record,” Mr. Pines said, adding that he wasn’t told why his contract was severed. “If a federal official doesn’t say something right, and chooses to clarify and say that the criticism is justified, that’s refreshing,” Mr. Pines said.
-
The FDA is now as corrupt as the CDC.
-
The FDA is now as corrupt as the CDC.
в чем проблема, разве это не правительство, которое вы выбрали?
-
The political takeover of FDA and CDC messaging is dangerous for all Americans, but it must be especially demoralizing to the dedicated researchers, statisticians, epidemiologists and others at those agencies. They are professionals who could easily make more money at big pharma or in an academic medical center, and it must be painful to watch their work going to waste. I have worked with many people at those and other DHHS agencies, and I feel truly awful for them.
-
в чем проблема, разве это не правительство, которое вы выбрали?
в советский козырная америка правительство выбирает вас
-
в чем проблема, разве это не правительство, которое вы выбрали?
Sadly, yes.
будет хуже
-
Encouraging:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/02/world/covid-19-coronavirus.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200902&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=37331&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
International clinical trials published on Wednesday confirmed the hope that cheap, widely available steroid drugs can help seriously ill patients survive Covid-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus.
Following release of the new data, the World Health Organization on Wednesday strongly recommended steroids for treatment of patients with severe or critical Covid-19 worldwide. But the agency recommended against giving the drugs to patients with mild disease.
The new studies include an analysis that pooled data from seven randomized clinical trials evaluating three steroids in over 1,700 patients. The study concluded that each of the three drugs reduced the risk of death.
-
Encouraging:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/02/world/covid-19-coronavirus.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200902&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=37331&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
International clinical trials published on Wednesday confirmed the hope that cheap, widely available steroid drugs can help seriously ill patients survive Covid-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus.
Following release of the new data, the World Health Organization on Wednesday strongly recommended steroids for treatment of patients with severe or critical Covid-19 worldwide. But the agency recommended against giving the drugs to patients with mild disease.
The new studies include an analysis that pooled data from seven randomized clinical trials evaluating three steroids in over 1,700 patients. The study concluded that each of the three drugs reduced the risk of death.
One of my former trainees, now a ER doc in your neck of the woods, says Dex is pretty much the go to treatment, essentially the first thing you get when you are admitted.
-
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.18.20197327v1
Conclusions
Pre-exposure prophylaxis with hydroxychloroquine once or twice weekly did not significantly reduce laboratory-confirmed Covid-19 or Covid-19-compatible illness among healthcare workers.
Okay, so it doesn't work as a prophylaxis, nor does it work after exposure.
We done here?
-
People should lose their medical licenses over this. And the entertainment channel pretending to be news should be fined for killing people.
-
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.18.20197327v1
Conclusions
Pre-exposure prophylaxis with hydroxychloroquine once or twice weekly did not significantly reduce laboratory-confirmed Covid-19 or Covid-19-compatible illness among healthcare workers.
Okay, so it doesn't work as a prophylaxis, nor does it work after exposure.
We done here?
"Your refusal to accept the miracle cure of HCQ is because you are infected with demon seman!"
(https://www.insideedition.com/sites/default/files/images/2020-07/emmanuel.jpg)
-
ICAM. Out of Florida. Logic tracks. Common medicines in combination.
-
ICAM. Out of Florida. Logic tracks. Common medicines in combination.
Makes sense. Hope it proves successful in larger-scale use.
-
Why no use of (or at least no mention of) Hydroxy on POTUS?
-
Why no use of (or at least no mention of) Hydroxy on POTUS?
Because he's taking it already to prevent Covid. Obviously
-
Eli Lilly has to pause its antibody treatment trials because subjects are getting sick.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/10/13/world/coronavirus-covid?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201013&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=40859&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa#eli-lilly-antibody-trial-is-paused-because-of-potential-safety-concerns
-
Eli Lilly has to pause its antibody treatment trials because subjects are getting sick.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/10/13/world/coronavirus-covid?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201013&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=40859&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa#eli-lilly-antibody-trial-is-paused-because-of-potential-safety-concerns
Well that's 2 of ours paused. At least the British vaccine is back on.
-
Well that's 2 of ours paused. At least the British vaccine is back on.
I'm not sure which 2 you're referring to...but if you are including phase 3 vaccine studies, there are 3 studies currently paused in the US:
* this Eli Lilly monoclonal antibody study
* the AstraZeneca vaccine study (the British one; open in UK, but not in US)
* the J & J vaccine study
-
I'm not sure which 2 you're referring to...but if you are including phase 3 vaccine studies, there are 3 studies currently paused in the US:
* this Eli Lilly monoclonal antibody study
* the AstraZeneca vaccine study (the British one; open in UK, but not in US)
* the J & J vaccine study
JJ and Lilly were the ones I was referring to being paused. AstraZeneca was the one I was referring to being back open after that hiccup a few weeks ago
-
JJ and Lilly were the ones I was referring to being paused. AstraZeneca was the one I was referring to being back open after that hiccup a few weeks ago
True, but it is still on hold in the US. Given that large numbers of subjects were expected to be enrolled here, I'd call that more than a 'hiccup.' And there are previously enrolled subjects in limbo:
https://www.statnews.com/2020/10/06/astrazeneca-covid19-second-dose-trial-vaccine/
Kinda makes you wonder if they'll even be able to use the US data at all, given the unexpectedly long lag between doses.
-
Eli Lilly has to pause its antibody treatment trials because subjects are getting sick.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/10/13/world/coronavirus-covid?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201013&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=40859&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa#eli-lilly-antibody-trial-is-paused-because-of-potential-safety-concerns
and you can hardly contain your excitement...good on eli to put the people and safety before anything else. ya got anything on companies moving positively and safely forward? buzz kills suck, eyn'a?
-
and you can hardly contain your excitement...good on eli to put the people and safety before anything else. ya got anything on companies moving positively and safely forward? buzz kills suck, eyn'a?
Perhaps you are not familiar with how clinical trials work, but we almost never know about trials that are going “positively“ until they are done and the data has been analyzed. In fact, study doctors are usually contractually prohibited from imputing positive results to study drugs during the course of the study. Because of that, the public only hears about studies that need to be halted or terminated because of adverse events.
Typically, all the public will know is that the study is proceeding. Nothing more, nothing less.
No classes about clinical research in dental school?
-
and you can hardly contain your excitement...good on eli to put the people and safety before anything else. ya got anything on companies moving positively and safely forward? buzz kills suck, eyn'a?
what the eff you talkin' about?
you know, i try to stop by just to see what's happening, but these are the types of posts that make this board tough to read. come on rock, get to a meeting or something
-
No classes about clinical research in dental school?
"Healthcare professional"
-
https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1316822064427339776?s=19
"World Health Organization clinical trial finds Remdesivir has no substantial effect on a patient's chance for survival."
-
https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1316822064427339776?s=19
"World Health Organization clinical trial finds Remdes ivir has no substantial effect on a patient's chance for survival."
Well that’s disturbing. So at this point we are basically using immune system boosters and steroids.
Maybe other trials will refute this. Still, not a happy outcome.
-
Well that’s disturbing. So at this point we are basically using immune system boosters and steroids.
Maybe other trials will refute this. Still, not a happy outcome.
Don't forget Regeneron. I think that is still by far the best option. Too bad we didn't invest more heavily in it right away.
-
https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1316822064427339776?s=19
"World Health Organization clinical trial finds Remdesivir has no substantial effect on a patient's chance for survival."
Errrr, wasn't that the finding initially as well? That chances of survival did not improve with the drug, but that those that did survive recovered on average 4 days more quickly?
-
Don't forget Regeneron. I think that is still by far the best option. Too bad we didn't invest more heavily in it right away.
Totally agree. I did not mention Regeneron’s monoclonal antibodies because they are not yet approved, but you are right - it holds great promise.
-
Perhaps you are not familiar with how clinical trials work, but we almost never know about trials that are going “positively“ until they are done and the data has been analyzed. In fact, study doctors are usually contractually prohibited from imputing positive results to study drugs during the course of the study. Because of that, the public only hears about studies that need to be halted or terminated because of adverse events.
Typically, all the public will know is that the study is proceeding. Nothing more, nothing less.
No classes about clinical research in dental school?
why yes GM, there are many classes that cite clinical research as their method to prove or disprove many things, materials, methods, drugs, etc used in our field. i can read the reports as well as anyone, but you missed my point. no need to question my understanding of the scientific methods used here, or was that just a "how many clinical research studies have you had an active participation in jab.
there are some here that don't know "jack" about how these things work and the fact that situational efficacies must be taken into effect depending on the "risk-reward". i sense a rooting for the failure of the process here for a few more weeks anyway and find it disgusting as there is a fine line between a little diarrhea and quelling a widespread virus for the good of all
-
i sense a rooting for the failure of the process here for a few more weeks anyway and find it disgusting as there is a fine line between a little diarrhea and quelling a widespread virus for the good of all
All this from a link being posted with the topic included?
If you’re projecting based on who posted the article fine, but at least be honest about it.
-
why yes GM, there are many classes that cite clinical research as their method to prove or disprove many things, materials, methods, drugs, etc used in our field. i can read the reports as well as anyone, but you missed my point. no need to question my understanding of the scientific methods used here, or was that just a "how many clinical research studies have you had an active participation in jab.
there are some here that don't know "jack" about how these things work and the fact that situational efficacies must be taken into effect depending on the "risk-reward". i sense a rooting for the failure of the process here for a few more weeks anyway and find it disgusting as there is a fine line between a little diarrhea and quelling a widespread virus for the good of all
I worked at a GMP lab for a few years, so I'd say I know jack. Malarkey.
-
Pfizer:
https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1317046528637243393?s=19
Straight from the Pfizer CEO:
https://twitter.com/AlbertBourla/status/1317045723540656128?s=19
-
why yes GM, there are many classes that cite clinical research as their method to prove or disprove many things, materials, methods, drugs, etc used in our field. i can read the reports as well as anyone, but you missed my point. no need to question my understanding of the scientific methods used here, or was that just a "how many clinical research studies have you had an active participation in jab.
there are some here that don't know "jack" about how these things work and the fact that situational efficacies must be taken into effect depending on the "risk-reward". i sense a rooting for the failure of the process here for a few more weeks anyway and find it disgusting as there is a fine line between a little diarrhea and quelling a widespread virus for the good of all
Bullsh!t.
-
why yes GM, there are many classes that cite clinical research as their method to prove or disprove many things, materials, methods, drugs, etc used in our field. i can read the reports as well as anyone, but you missed my point. no need to question my understanding of the scientific methods used here, or was that just a "how many clinical research studies have you had an active participation in jab.
there are some here that don't know "jack" about how these things work and the fact that situational efficacies must be taken into effect depending on the "risk-reward". i sense a rooting for the failure of the process here for a few more weeks anyway and find it disgusting as there is a fine line between a little diarrhea and quelling a widespread virus for the good of all
I don't know of anyone who is 'rooting for failure' here. We are all susceptible to the virus, and we are all sick of wearing masks, socially distancing, and balancing the risks and benefits of visiting with friends and family. And we (or family or friends) all could get the virus tomorrow...so rooting for delays in treatment is inherently against our interests.
And my key point stands as the simple, straightforward answer to the comment you posed initially: In terms of public information, the clinical trial process is set up so that there will always be more news available about studies being halted for safety issues than there is about studies that are moving along smoothly. Your initial comment seemed to indicate confusion about that topic - sorry if I took it at face value.
-
there are some here that don't know "jack" about how these things work and the fact that situational efficacies must be taken into effect depending on the "risk-reward". i sense a rooting for the failure of the process here for a few more weeks anyway and find it disgusting as there is a fine line between a little diarrhea and quelling a widespread virus for the good of all
you know, i try to stop by just to see what's happening, but these are the types of posts that make this board tough to read. come on rock, get to a meeting or something
-
Pfizer:
https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1317046528637243393?s=19
Straight from the Pfizer CEO:
https://twitter.com/AlbertBourla/status/1317045723540656128?s=19
That's exciting news. Obviously widespread safety is the biggest concern but it is one of the hurdles.
-
you know, i try to stop by just to see what's happening, but these are the types of posts that make this board tough to read. come on rock, get to a meeting or something
i so wanna say i'm flattered...nope
-
When somebody posts about a promising drug or vaccine or procedure, many of us respond with encouraging words like, "Sounds promising. Here's hoping" ... or ... "Hopefully, this will be successful."
When somebody posts about drug or vaccine trials unfortunately having to pause, rocket responds: "why are you rooting for failure?"
I guess only one kind of fact is allowed here, and rocket is the judge of people's intentions.
-
Good news from J&J ...
Johnson & Johnson says it is preparing to resume a large clinical trial of its experimental COVID-19 vaccine after finding no evidence the vaccine caused an "unexplained illness" in a study volunteer that caused the company to pause the trial earlier this month.
J&J says an independent data safety and monitoring board recommends resuming recruitment of study subjects for the trial, and it has consulted with U.S. regulators while taking steps to resume the trial.
The company has not offered further details about the nature of the illness in the study subject.
The J&J trial aims to enroll as many as 60K people in the U.S. and other countries to test whether a single dose safely protects people from COVID-19.
Meanwhile, AstraZeneca says it has resumed the U.S. trial of its experimental COVID-19 vaccine after the Food and Drug Administration did not find the shot was responsible for neurological side effects that emerged in two test participants.
-
Good to see these trials are moving forward. With all the hurdles yet to overcome, we need as many potential vaccine candidates as we can get.
-
Weeks away. Just weeks away.
-
Will we get to a point where there is an at home test kit that is cheap enough for your average person to test him/herself a couple times a week if needed?
-
Will we get to a point where there is an at home test kit that is cheap enough for your average person to test him/herself a couple times a week if needed?
Depends on your financials, but Costco has one for $120
-
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/add-vitamin-d-bread-milk-help-fight-covid-urge-scientists-deficiency-supplements
Vitamin D.
Personally, I've doubled my vitamin D supplementation since June.
-
And vitamin C. And baby aspirin.
-
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/add-vitamin-d-bread-milk-help-fight-covid-urge-scientists-deficiency-supplements
Vitamin D.
Personally, I've doubled my vitamin D supplementation since June.
I was originally skeptical of the need for a Vitamin D supplement because I take a multivitamin and drink plenty of milk. And I was worried about overdosing on vitamin D, since it is fat soluble. But then I read a Mayo Clinic article that showed you have to take astronomically huge megadoses (60,000 IU for several months; that's 100 times the RDA), so I decided to up mine a bit. I currently take ~5 times the RDA, so I feel pretty safe....
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/vitamin-d-toxicity/faq-20058108
-
https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2020/11/is-there-a-role-for-vitamin-d-in-the-treatment-of-covid-19.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
-
https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2020/11/is-there-a-role-for-vitamin-d-in-the-treatment-of-covid-19.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Written by Teresa Fuller, an Integrative Holistic Pediatrician according to her linkedin. Not saying the article is incorrect, but the source is dubious.
-
A balanced take on Vitamin D from the Harvard School of Public Health, which concludes that there is "some evidence" that it may prevent or reduce the severity of Covid-19 infection. The article also concludes that a supplement of 1,000 to 2,000 IU/day "is likely safe for most people."
https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/treatments-for-covid-19#:~:text=There%20is%20some%20evidence%20to,with%20COVID%2D19.
And a recent study from Spain that was published in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, showing that hospitalized Covid-19 patients had Vitamin D deficiency at a higher rate (82.2%) than population-based controls (47.2%).
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/advance-article/doi/10.1210/clinem/dgaa733/5934827
I don't interpret Vitamin D as a magic bullet against Covid, but the evidence suggests that (1) it may increase resistance to infection; (2) many people are (unknowingly) deficient; and (3) moderate doses of 1,000 to 2,000 IU per day pose little to no risk for most adults.
-
Written by Teresa Fuller, an Integrative Holistic Pediatrician according to her linkedin. Not saying the article is incorrect, but the source is dubious.
Good catch. I generally trust things on kevinmd, so didn't look deeper
-
Written by Teresa Fuller, an Integrative Holistic Pediatrician according to her linkedin. Not saying the article is incorrect, but the source is dubious.
In reality, a lot of doctors are using holistic approaches. I don’t know what teachings there are in Medical schools for this, but more and more younger docs are looking for alternatives to the barrage of prescriptions that are doled out.
-
My wife sees a Naturopath as well as her regular doctors.
They take all the usual bloodwork and run the labs, but add an element of "vitamins & minerals & herbs" and will recommend certain prescriptions or send you to a regular doctor when necessary.
National Geographic had an article like 2 years ago how science is studying ancient Chinese herbal remedies and other long time treatments to see what is real and if what in the plant causes the reaction.
-
Ron Johnson is upset that he can't get...HCQ.
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1329464594851647489
:P
-
I think I’ll just skip the vaccine and take HCQ.
-
Ron Johnson is upset that he can't get...HCQ.
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1329464594851647489
:P
Perhaps they should give him some…
-
Ron Johnson is upset that he can't get...HCQ.
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1329464594851647489
:P
I think he can probably get some bleach if he gets to Walmart soon. Hell, I'll even help him pick it out.
-
whatever happened to doctor-patient relationship and the gubmint keeping their filthy hands of our bodies?? seems to be ok for baby killing
-
Ron Johnson is upset that he can't get...HCQ.
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1329464594851647489
:P
What an embarrassment to Wisconsin
-
whatever happened to doctor-patient relationship and the gubmint keeping their filthy hands of our bodies?? seems to be ok for baby killing
whatever happened to doctor-patient relationship and the gubmint keeping their filthy hands of our bodies?? you seem fine with gumint putting their filthy hands up ladies' kooches to suit your political whims.
-
whatever happened to doctor-patient relationship and the gubmint keeping their filthy hands of our bodies?? seems to be ok for baby killing
WTF are you talking about? What has this to do with the nonsense Ron Johnson is talking about.
I know you'll go to great lengths to justify your initial, dumb support of Hydroxy (only because Trump supported it), but I think anyone speaking in support of it now looks a little stupid.
-
WTF are you talking about? What has this to do with the nonsense Ron Johnson is talking about.
I know you'll go to great lengths to justify your initial, dumb support of Hydroxy (only because Trump supported it), but I think anyone speaking in support of it now looks a little stupid.
He's just reciting the talking points that he has been given. He isn't capable of original thought or admitting he was wrong (like a real man does). Same spit, different day
-
It amazes me that this has come up multiple times right before or right as it gets bad in the US. It's sad, particularly since this is the third time and it comes on the heels of completely abdicating any role in the management of the pandemic. The federal govt cares so little about this that they are now letting the scientists at the CDC speak.
Newsflash - we know how to make things better. You just don't want to do it. Be honest.
-
whatever happened to doctor-patient relationship and the gubmint keeping their filthy hands of our bodies?? seems to be ok for baby killing
Do you also support the legalization of all drugs..."My Body".
What about blood-letting (doctor-patient relationship)?
Intramuscular mercury injections?
-
" I think anyone speaking in support of it now looks a little stupid"
https://publichealth.yale.edu/profile/harvey_risch/
https://www.smithcenternj.org/
there are many more docs out there using this successfully than you know, but that's not saying much. they have a doc on msnbc poo-poo'ing the use of hydroxy...then they asked him if he treats covid patients...nope.
sorry guys but if used at the right time with the right dose, it works. it's cheap and it's safe
-
Dude, Risch's study has not held up well.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7499476/
Honestly, medical consensus has moved on LONG ago. You should do the same. So should Ron Johnson, but I'm not expecting much from him.
-
Can COVID Truthers be marked after this is all over with? I can’t imagine finding out my trusted dentist has been spewing this kind of diarrhea on the internet.
4ever included as well.
-
Remember when guru came on here, very excited to post the link to the demon-seed-pushing witch doctor's press conference, thinking it "proved" that his emperor really had found the miracle cure?
Ah, good times.
-
And here's the thing, the medical community has done a GREAT job increasing someone's odd for survival. Because by and large our doctors are smart, willing to learn, and will listed to experts.
I am grateful that we have doctors (and judges) who can see through the bullsh*t and deal with the facts at hand.
-
" I think anyone speaking in support of it now looks a little stupid"
https://publichealth.yale.edu/profile/harvey_risch/
https://www.smithcenternj.org/
there are many more docs out there using this successfully than you know, but that's not saying much. they have a doc on msnbc poo-poo'ing the use of hydroxy...then they asked him if he treats covid patients...nope.
sorry guys but if used at the right time with the right dose, it works. it's cheap and it's safe
Partially true. There are docs out there exploiting peoples stupidity to get rich. They have MAGA hat wearing people lining up everytime they get a sniffle, for a tele-visit. Then diagnose them with "COVID" without any testing, prescribe HCQ and a handful of vitamins, charge them for a follow up visit or two. Claim they cured them when there allergies resolve, and get them to spread the message amongst their MAGA friends, who come running when they wake up with a headache.
Doctor's prescribing this are snake-oil salesman, and scam artists. The only thing they are doing successfully is enriching themselves.
-
https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1330106812411092992 (https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1330106812411092992)
The propaganda machine doesn't help some of our posters either.
Gertz is a great follow btw.
-
sorry guys but if used at the right time with the right dose, it works. it's cheap and it's safe
...he says despite every shred of evidence proving him wrong.
Cult members are gonna spew cult cult dictums, no matter what reality says.
-
" I think anyone speaking in support of it now looks a little stupid"
https://publichealth.yale.edu/profile/harvey_risch/
https://www.smithcenternj.org/
there are many more docs out there using this successfully than you know, but that's not saying much. they have a doc on msnbc poo-poo'ing the use of hydroxy...then they asked him if he treats covid patients...nope.
sorry guys but if used at the right time with the right dose, it works. it's cheap and it's safe
Boomer brain disease. What is it like to be so easily fooled?
-
Boomer brain disease. What is it like to be so easily fooled?
I am a boomer and literally know hundreds of fellow boomers, and I only personally know a few boomers who admit to have voted for the emperor.
So I really don’t know what being a boomer has to do with our dentists being part of the cult.
Sadly, plenty of younger folks also bend the knee.
-
FDA grants emergency authorization for experimental drug given to Trump.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/21/health/regeneron-covid-antibodies-trump.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201121&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=45160&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
The Food and Drug Administration has granted emergency authorization for the experimental antibody treatment given to President Trump shortly after he was diagnosed with Covid-19, giving doctors another option to treat Covid-19 patients as cases across the country continue to rise.
The treatment, made by the biotech company Regeneron, is a cocktail of two powerful antibodies that have shown promise in early studies at keeping the infection in check, reducing medical visits in patients who get the drug early in the course of their disease. A similar treatment, made by Eli Lilly, was given emergency approval earlier this month.
The emergency authorization for Regeneron’s drug is limited in scope: It is for people 12 and over who have tested positive for the coronavirus and who are at high risk for developing severe Covid-19. Evidence so far suggests that antibody treatments work best early in the course of the disease, before the virus has gained a foothold in the body. Like Eli Lilly’s treatment, Regeneron’s is not authorized for use in people who are hospitalized or who need oxygen.
-
A New Use for an Old Drug: UVA Researchers Discover Potential COVID-19 Treatment
https://vadogwood.com/2020/11/20/a-new-use-for-an-old-drug-uva-researchers-discover-potential-covid-19-treatment/amp/
-
I am a boomer and literally know hundreds of fellow boomers, and I only personally know a few boomers who admit to have voted for the emperor.
So I really don’t know what being a boomer has to do with our dentists being part of the cult.
Sadly, plenty of younger folks also bend the knee.
Then you live in a bubble.
-
Seems like synthetic anti-bodies work really well. Apparently Rudy said "The minute I took the Cocktail, I felt 100% better'.
I don't go here often but it just makes me ill to see that he advocated and continues to advocate from his hospital bed for risky behavior when the availability and the cost of the drug that has bailed him and others out makes it out of reach for the rest of the country (and world for that matter).
Sources for those that want to see the words.
https://www.businessinsider.com/giuliani-brags-about-getting-experimental-covid-19-treatment-like-trump-2020-12 (https://www.businessinsider.com/giuliani-brags-about-getting-experimental-covid-19-treatment-like-trump-2020-12)
https://www.businessinsider.com/rudy-giuliani-dismisses-masks-while-hospitalized-with-covid-19-2020-12 (https://www.businessinsider.com/rudy-giuliani-dismisses-masks-while-hospitalized-with-covid-19-2020-12)
-
Seems like synthetic anti-bodies work really well. Apparently Rudy said "The minute I took the Cocktail, I felt 100% better'.
I don't go here often but it just makes me ill to see that he advocated and continues to advocate from his hospital bed for risky behavior when the availability and the cost of the drug that has bailed him and others out makes it out of reach for the rest of the country (and world for that matter).
Sources for those that want to see the words.
https://www.businessinsider.com/giuliani-brags-about-getting-experimental-covid-19-treatment-like-trump-2020-12 (https://www.businessinsider.com/giuliani-brags-about-getting-experimental-covid-19-treatment-like-trump-2020-12)
https://www.businessinsider.com/rudy-giuliani-dismisses-masks-while-hospitalized-with-covid-19-2020-12 (https://www.businessinsider.com/rudy-giuliani-dismisses-masks-while-hospitalized-with-covid-19-2020-12)
Yep, thousands dying daily with no access to these drugs, but he still advocates for risky behavior killing people.
Absolutely vile.
-
How does he get to ‘admit himself to the hospital’? Especially with hospitals getting filled up?
-
How does he get to ‘admit himself to the hospital’? Especially with hospitals getting filled up?
Two words.
Rich. White.
-
Two words.
Rich. White.
Honestly, I think you can stop at "rich." In the economic range where 99% of people live, skin color makes a huge difference.
But when you get past a net worth of a few million, skin color doesn't matter. As an example - don't you think Ben Carson gets all these same treatments if he wants them?
-
Honestly, I think you can stop at "rich." In the economic range where 99% of people live, skin color makes a huge difference.
But when you get past a net worth of a few million, skin color doesn't matter. As an example - don't you think Ben Carson gets all these same treatments if he wants them?
When Ben Carson tested positive he got to go to Walter Reed, so yes
-
How does he get to ‘admit himself to the hospital’? Especially with hospitals getting filled up?
You're kidding, right?
Trump has taken down a lot of once-respected people, but has anybody fallen as hard as Rudy Tooty? He was "America's Mayor," and rightly or wrongly was credited with being a heroic figure after 9/11. Now ... he is the human embodiment of an SNL skit, an international laughingstock.
-
I couldn’t use teal. It just outrages me.
-
Filed under “other treatments”, this could be great news if the data in the study holds up. Cheap, effective and trades a time on a vent for time on the throne.
https://twitter.com/bogochisaac/status/1352958921879773185?s=21
(https://twitter.com/bogochisaac/status/1352958921879773185?s=21)
-
Filed under “other treatments”, this could be great news if the data in the study holds up. Cheap, effective and trades a time on a vent for time on the throne.
https://twitter.com/bogochisaac/status/1352958921879773185?s=21
(https://twitter.com/bogochisaac/status/1352958921879773185?s=21)
I'm not gonna hold my breath on "great" news on that one.
-
From the NYT:
As the coronavirus tears across much of Texas, Dr. Esmaeil Porsa is grappling with one of the most formidable challenges he has faced: The Houston hospital system he operates is running out of vaccines.
Porsa, the CEO of Harris Health System, which treats thousands of mostly uninsured patients, warned Friday that its entire vaccine supply could be depleted by midday Saturday. The problem is not one of capability – the vaccination centers he oversees have easily been administering as many as 2,000 vaccines a day – but of availability.
“All of a sudden the distribution of vaccines stopped,” Porsa said. “It’s perplexing and frustrating because I keep hearing that there are high percentages of vaccines that have been distributed but not administered.”
In the midst of one of the deadliest phases of the pandemic in the United States, health officials in Texas and around the country are growing desperate, unable to get clear answers as to why the long-anticipated vaccines are suddenly in short supply. Inoculation sites are canceling thousands of appointments in one state after another as the nation’s vaccines roll out through a bewildering patchwork of distribution networks, with local officials uncertain about what supplies they will have in hand.
-
From the NYT:
As the coronavirus tears across much of Texas, Dr. Esmaeil Porsa is grappling with one of the most formidable challenges he has faced: The Houston hospital system he operates is running out of vaccines.
Porsa, the CEO of Harris Health System, which treats thousands of mostly uninsured patients, warned Friday that its entire vaccine supply could be depleted by midday Saturday. The problem is not one of capability – the vaccination centers he oversees have easily been administering as many as 2,000 vaccines a day – but of availability.
“All of a sudden the distribution of vaccines stopped,” Porsa said. “It’s perplexing and frustrating because I keep hearing that there are high percentages of vaccines that have been distributed but not administered.”
In the midst of one of the deadliest phases of the pandemic in the United States, health officials in Texas and around the country are growing desperate, unable to get clear answers as to why the long-anticipated vaccines are suddenly in short supply. Inoculation sites are canceling thousands of appointments in one state after another as the nation’s vaccines roll out through a bewildering patchwork of distribution networks, with local officials uncertain about what supplies they will have in hand.
While we finally have a competent team ready to roll out the vaccine, we are still suffering from the insane incompetency of the previous regime. It will be extremely hard to vaccinate 100 Million in 100 days when we don't have supplies of the vaccine. Sadly, several of us wrote about these problems months ago - we knew it was coming thanks to Bunker Boy and his supporters.
-
While we finally have a competent team ready to roll out the vaccine, we are still suffering from the insane incompetency of the previous regime. It will be extremely hard to vaccinate 100 Million in 100 days when we don't have supplies of the vaccine. Sadly, several of us wrote about these problems months ago - we knew it was coming thanks to Bunker Boy and his supporters.
Aren’t we already at 1M per day? Is it jus that we will exhaust the initial supply that we won’t keep it going?
-
Aren’t we already at 1M per day? Is it jus that we will exhaust the initial supply that we won’t keep it going?
We are over 1M per day and it will likely not decrease. The shortages are mostly about states opening up who is eligible and not having enough to meet the increased demand.
-
We are over 1M per day and it will likely not decrease. The shortages are mostly about states opening up who is eligible and not having enough to meet the increased demand.
Your statements are mutually incompatible. We cannot keep up the current pace without a supply increase. We have shortages because of a lack of supply. Many states are cancelling previously scheduled appointments, because there are no vaccines available.
There is no indication we will observe a supply increase, rather we are likely to observe a decline without serious intervention. Pfizer has already indicated they will ship fewer vials than originally agreed upon.
We saw a ramp-up to the current over 1M per day, because the US government released all supplies immediately (while hiding this fact from everyone involved). That means, no more stockpile, and a wait on a supply that we are apparently uncertain on.
-
Your statements are mutually incompatible. We cannot keep up the current pace without a supply increase. We have shortages because of a lack of supply. Many states are cancelling previously scheduled appointments, because there are no vaccines available.
There is no indication we will observe a supply increase, rather we are likely to observe a decline without serious intervention. Pfizer has already indicated they will ship fewer vials than originally agreed upon.
We saw a ramp-up to the current over 1M per day, because the US government released all supplies immediately (while hiding this fact from everyone involved). That means, no more stockpile, and a wait on a supply that we are apparently uncertain on.
Except J&J and AZ will be ready to ship as soon as they get emergency approval.
-
Except J&J and AZ will be ready to ship as soon as they get emergency approval.
I thought J &J stopped their trials?
-
I thought J &J stopped their trials?
No Merck and another company.
-
J&J are chomping at the bit.
-
Except J&J and AZ will be ready to ship as soon as they get emergency approval.
J&J will be a month before shots in arms, AZ longer. That will be essentially half-way through the 100-day goal. Also, J&J announced delays in production, which will slow its release.
Moderna, may need to shift some production to booster shots against the new variants.
The 100-million shots in arms is more challenging than most people think. Remember, they originally wanted 20-million shots in arms by the end of December. That was with 20-million doses ready to be delivered immediately. They got 2-million administered.
I'm hopeful that the supply will be there, but it is far from a sure thing.
-
Oklahoma trying to return its $2m stockpile of hydroxychloroquine
https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/oklahoma-trying-to-return-its-2m-stockpile-of-hydroxychloroquine/
Why would they want to return the miracle drug that people here said is so effective?
-
They can send it to rocket, he still thinks it works.
Who could have guessed that making a medical decision based on trying to curry favor with a science denying politician would turn out poorly?
-
Why not give it out to needy patients with diseases treated with it like lupus?
-
Why not give it out to needy patients with diseases treated with it like lupus?
Because that would make WAY too much sense.
-
Why not give it out to needy patients with diseases treated with it like lupus?
Because WeLfArE sTaTe and SoCiAlIsM
-
Why not give it out to needy patients with diseases treated with it like lupus?
Slippery slope that leads dangerously down a path of government providing valuable services to its taxpayers. Today it's medicine, tomorrow the citizenry is going to want to properly fund schools. Where does it ever end?!? Repairing roads and bridges? Dogs and cats sleeping together?
-
Y'all are ticklin' my funny bone!
-
Potential new antiviral in pill form.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-pill-shows-promise-in-preliminary-testing-11615006861 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-pill-shows-promise-in-preliminary-testing-11615006861)
-
Potential new antiviral in pill form.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-pill-shows-promise-in-preliminary-testing-11615006861 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-pill-shows-promise-in-preliminary-testing-11615006861)
That would be a great addition to the arsenal if it proves out.
Thanks for posting.
-
One year ago today, the medical world ignored a brilliant and easy solution to the epidemic.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/23/trump-bleach-one-year-484399
“A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world. So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that that hasn't been checked, but you're going to test it. And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you're going to test that, too. It sounds interesting. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs, and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that.”
-
A true genius is almost always misunderstood. ;D ;D
-
Injecting bleach in honor of the one year anniversary.
-
One year ago today, the medical world ignored a brilliant and easy solution to the epidemic.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/23/trump-bleach-one-year-484399
“A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world. So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that that hasn't been checked, but you're going to test it. And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you're going to test that, too. It sounds interesting. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs, and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that.”
Incredible that it’s been a year already for some of this stuff. I honestly thought the bleach comment was a little later in the game.
-
Just being "sarcastic" ... while looking completely straight-faced at Birx.
-
It seems after the lab leak issue there's another "Trump may have been right" push, this time with Hydroxychloroquine. Thoughts?
https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20210602/HydroxychloroquineAzithromycin-therapy-at-a-higher-dose-improved-survival-by-nearly-20025-in-ventilated-COVID-patients.aspx
-
My thoughts he just threw out stuff with no real idea as to whether they were valid or doable or not. So it’s not like he read research papers or briefing papers or anything. So it doesn’t matter. As the saying goes, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
-
My first thoughts:
1) It's not peer reviewed
2) They're only looking at data (still) from the first couple months of the pandemic and "By discharge or Day 90, 78.2% of the cohort expired."
3) I'm not a medical guy, but double-blind randomized studies are the gold standard and those found no impact: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00053-5/fulltext
edit: I should add, I thought most people (trump, rocket) were looking at it as useful as prophylaxis, not treatment once intubated. This study is looking at mortality rate once intubated. And again with over 78% dying in those early days nothing was a good treatment. I *believe* they've found better treatments, and in also *thought* that determined intubating was not a recommended course of action (unless absolutely required) after that point in time. i.e. We've learned a lot since April/May 2020 and I'm not sure revisiting that period of time when we've already figured out better treatment is the best way to spend researchers time.
-
I'm not saying this article is wrong, but as rocky points out, it's limited.
-
yeah, I'm seeing a new cottage industry of "prove Trump was really right" forming. While there may be something to the lab leak issue I find this one questionable at best. What's next, injecting bleach is something we should have tried?
-
yeah, I'm seeing a new cottage industry of "prove Trump was really right" forming. While there may be something to the lab leak issue I find this one questionable at best. What's next, injecting bleach is something we should have tried?
The flu vaccine would've worked this whole time!
-
“New study shows that if we did not test anyone, we wouldn’t have had any positive cases.”
-
yeah, I'm seeing a new cottage industry of "prove Trump was really right" forming. While there may be something to the lab leak issue I find this one questionable at best. What's next, injecting bleach is something we should have tried?
After watching our basketball team last season, I might have volunteered to be in a trial for this treatment in March.
-
yeah, I'm seeing a new cottage industry of "prove Trump was really right" forming. While there may be something to the lab leak issue I find this one questionable at best. What's next, injecting bleach is something we should have tried?
I’m not so interested in Trump being right on things anymore as much as I love pointing out media being wrong. Another example below:
https://greenwald.substack.com/p/yet-another-media-tale-trump-tear
-
I’m not so interested in Trump being right on things anymore as much as I love pointing out media being wrong. Another example below:
https://greenwald.substack.com/p/yet-another-media-tale-trump-tear
Do you really not understand the difference between "covid politics", and just "politics"?
-
My first thoughts:
1) It's not peer reviewed
2) They're only looking at data (still) from the first couple months of the pandemic and "By discharge or Day 90, 78.2% of the cohort expired."
3) I'm not a medical guy, but double-blind randomized studies are the gold standard and those found no impact: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00053-5/fulltext
edit: I should add, I thought most people (trump, rocket) were looking at it as useful as prophylaxis, not treatment once intubated. This study is looking at mortality rate once intubated. And again with over 78% dying in those early days nothing was a good treatment. I *believe* they've found better treatments, and in also *thought* that determined intubating was not a recommended course of action (unless absolutely required) after that point in time. i.e. We've learned a lot since April/May 2020 and I'm not sure revisiting that period of time when we've already figured out better treatment is the best way to spend researchers time.
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210602/HydroxychloroquineAzithromycin-therapy-at-a-higher-dose-improved-survival-by-nearly-20025-in-ventilated-COVID-patients.aspx
Ive been telling you guys for over a year, some docs used hydroxy in a way that saved lives. If the “politics” got out the way, many more lives could have been saved. Sad case for our “experts” and following the “science”.
How many things are we going to have to go thru like this? The left doesn’t like it for some lazy reason, it gets cancelled and later we find out they were wrong. The left never seems t have to admit they were wrong, they make excuses, stand by their nonsense, get an award and move on
How bout those beach front properties al said will be underwater by…? He’s” laughing all the way to his vault
-
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210602/HydroxychloroquineAzithromycin-therapy-at-a-higher-dose-improved-survival-by-nearly-20025-in-ventilated-COVID-patients.aspx
Ive been telling you guys for over a year, some docs used hydroxy in a way that saved lives. If the “politics” got out the way, many more lives could have been saved. Sad case for our “experts” and following the “science”.
How many things are we going to have to go thru like this? The left doesn’t like it for some lazy reason, it gets cancelled and later we find out they were wrong. The left never seems t have to admit they were wrong, they make excuses, stand by their nonsense, get an award and move on
How bout those beach front properties al said will be underwater by…? He’s” laughing all the way to his vault
Don’t start pretending you care about lives being saved now.
-
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210602/HydroxychloroquineAzithromycin-therapy-at-a-higher-dose-improved-survival-by-nearly-20025-in-ventilated-COVID-patients.aspx
Ive been telling you guys for over a year, some docs used hydroxy in a way that saved lives. If the “politics” got out the way, many more lives could have been saved. Sad case for our “experts” and following the “science”.
How many things are we going to have to go thru like this? The left doesn’t like it for some lazy reason, it gets cancelled and later we find out they were wrong. The left never seems t have to admit they were wrong, they make excuses, stand by their nonsense, get an award and move on
How bout those beach front properties al said will be underwater by…? He’s” laughing all the way to his vault
Sad that you're still on about this. Sadder that your "friends" around here don't try to bring you back to reality.
-
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210602/HydroxychloroquineAzithromycin-therapy-at-a-higher-dose-improved-survival-by-nearly-20025-in-ventilated-COVID-patients.aspx
Ive been telling you guys for over a year, some docs used hydroxy in a way that saved lives. If the “politics” got out the way, many more lives could have been saved. Sad case for our “experts” and following the “science”.
How many things are we going to have to go thru like this? The left doesn’t like it for some lazy reason, it gets cancelled and later we find out they were wrong. The left never seems t have to admit they were wrong, they make excuses, stand by their nonsense, get an award and move on
How bout those beach front properties al said will be underwater by…? He’s” laughing all the way to his vault
Please let us know when it has been peer reviewed.
-
My first thoughts:
1) It's not peer reviewed
2) They're only looking at data (still) from the first couple months of the pandemic and "By discharge or Day 90, 78.2% of the cohort expired."
3) I'm not a medical guy, but double-blind randomized studies are the gold standard and those found no impact: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00053-5/fulltext
edit: I should add, I thought most people (trump, rocket) were looking at it as useful as prophylaxis, not treatment once intubated. This study is looking at mortality rate once intubated. And again with over 78% dying in those early days nothing was a good treatment. I *believe* they've found better treatments, and in also *thought* that determined intubating was not a recommended course of action (unless absolutely required) after that point in time. i.e. We've learned a lot since April/May 2020 and I'm not sure revisiting that period of time when we've already figured out better treatment is the best way to spend researchers time.
You’re right Rocky in that the early intubation of Covid patients that we thought was helping save lives actually was making things worse so as I understand it putting a Covid patient on a ventilator is the absolute last step in treatment now.
So much of those early days were focused on manufacturing and distributing more ventilators and the main reason used to justify the initial lockdowns was so we could preserve a limited supply of ventilators. Which all turned out to be a giant mistake.
Once the dust settles from this thing and we can retrospectively go back at the recommendations and decisions made there will be a lot to learn from the spring of 2020 that’s for sure.
-
You’re right Rocky in that the early intubation of Covid patients that we thought was helping save lives actually was making things worse so as I understand it putting a Covid patient on a ventilator is the absolute last step in treatment now.
So much of those early days were focused on manufacturing and distributing more ventilators and the main reason used to justify the initial lockdowns was so we could preserve a limited supply of ventilators. Which all turned out to be a giant mistake.
Once the dust settles from this thing and we can retrospectively go back at the recommendations and decisions made there will be a lot to learn from the spring of 2020 that’s for sure.
Sorry what "all turned out to be a giant mistake?" Lockdowns in general?
-
Sorry what "all turned out to be a giant mistake?" Lockdowns in general?
No not lockdowns in general. I think the initial lockdown (month or two) was justified to get a sense of what the hell was going on. I’d argue anything after that was largely ineffective.
I’m thinking more along the lines of social distancing, outdoor parks or activities being shut down, plexiglass all over the place, people wiping fricking grocery’s down with Clorox wipes, etc.. None of those types of things made a lick of sense and led to overall panic and paranoia many still struggle with.
-
No not lockdowns in general. I think the initial lockdown (month or two) was justified to get a sense of what the hell was going on. I’d argue anything after that was largely ineffective.
I’m thinking more along the lines of social distancing, outdoor parks or activities being shut down, plexiglass all over the place, people wiping fricking grocery’s down with Clorox wipes, etc.. None of those types of things made a lick of sense and led to overall panic and paranoia many still struggle with.
Of course they made sense at the time with the information we had. Hindsight is 20/20.
-
No not lockdowns in general. I think the initial lockdown (month or two) was justified to get a sense of what the hell was going on. I’d argue anything after that was largely ineffective.
I’m thinking more along the lines of social distancing, outdoor parks or activities being shut down, plexiglass all over the place, people wiping fricking grocery’s down with Clorox wipes, etc.. None of those types of things made a lick of sense and led to overall panic and paranoia many still struggle with.
Social distancing: 100% made sense
Outdoor parks: probably not
Most activities: depends on density, airflow, etc.
Plexiglass: Again depends on where and what you're referring to.
Wiping down groceries: never made sense but after late April/early may if you were doing that it was a bit much.
-
I think my neighbor is still wiping down groceries. Which even to me makes no sense and hasn’t for quite awhile. Social distancing totally made sense. This has been a huge learning curve done on the fly, and I am sure much has been learned from it.
-
No not lockdowns in general. I think the initial lockdown (month or two) was justified to get a sense of what the hell was going on. I’d argue anything after that was largely ineffective.
We mostly weren't locked down after a couple months most places.
I’m thinking more along the lines of social distancing, outdoor parks or activities being shut down, plexiglass all over the place, people wiping fricking grocery’s down with Clorox wipes, etc.. None of those types of things made a lick of sense and led to overall panic and paranoia many still struggle with.
Indoor social distancing made a ton of sense and continues to do so for the unvaccinated.
-
Social distancing: 100% made sense
Outdoor parks: probably not
Most activities: depends on density, airflow, etc.
Plexiglass: Again depends on where and what you're referring to.
Wiping down groceries: never made sense but after late April/early may if you were doing that it was a bit much.
Social distancing indoors makes no sense if you follow the science.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/04/23/mit-researchers-say-youre-no-safer-from-covid-indoors-at-6-feet-or-60-feet-in-new-study.html
Published study that was peer reviewed 3x’s. You are at no less risk when indoors of contracting Covid whether you’re at 3ft, 6ft, or 60 ft. When it was found out that C19 was airborne and the most likely cause of transmission wasn’t through respiratory droplets the whole social distancing and plexiglass stuff should have been out the window and the messaging moved towards limited time in indoor spaces, that’s it.
Unless the plexiglass created somehow helped create a negative pressure room isolated the air space behind the plexiglass with the air from the rest of the room it did to little aside from creating a false sense of security. The plexiglass partisan in restaurants, grocery stores, etc were/are pointless.
-
Social distancing indoors makes no sense if you follow the science.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/04/23/mit-researchers-say-youre-no-safer-from-covid-indoors-at-6-feet-or-60-feet-in-new-study.html
Published study that was peer reviewed 3x’s. You are at no less risk when indoors of contracting Covid whether you’re at 3ft, 6ft, or 60 ft. When it was found out that C19 was airborne and the most likely cause of transmission wasn’t through respiratory droplets the whole social distancing and plexiglass stuff should have been out the window and the messaging moved towards limited time in indoor spaces, that’s it.
Unless the plexiglass created somehow helped create a negative pressure room isolated the air space behind the plexiglass with the air from the rest of the room it did to little aside from creating a false sense of security. The plexiglass partisan in restaurants, grocery stores, etc were/are pointless.
You didn't say social distancing indoors, you said social distancing.
As far as plexiglass, I think we had different ideas of what you were referring to. But I mean if you want to take that logic and use it to start shouting at everyone who had a face shield instead of a mask then by all means more power to you.
The study cites indoors as a closed environment (source 29) so it's ignored that open windows, air filters, etc all contribute to mitigate the transmission. I don't know about you, but almost everywhere I went indoors had various things like air filters and open windows and doors.
-
Social distancing indoors makes no sense if you follow the science.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/04/23/mit-researchers-say-youre-no-safer-from-covid-indoors-at-6-feet-or-60-feet-in-new-study.html
Published study that was peer reviewed 3x’s. You are at no less risk when indoors of contracting Covid whether you’re at 3ft, 6ft, or 60 ft. When it was found out that C19 was airborne and the most likely cause of transmission wasn’t through respiratory droplets the whole social distancing and plexiglass stuff should have been out the window and the messaging moved towards limited time in indoor spaces, that’s it.
Unless the plexiglass created somehow helped create a negative pressure room isolated the air space behind the plexiglass with the air from the rest of the room it did to little aside from creating a false sense of security. The plexiglass partisan in restaurants, grocery stores, etc were/are pointless.
This is what happens when people use social media to determine what they think science is, instead of understanding exactly what was being studied.
What this says is that social distancing doesn't matter in cases where the virus is being spread through small droplets. The study did NOT say "You are at no less risk when indoors of contracting Covid whether you’re at 3ft, 6ft, or 60 ft."
And why is that? Because small respiratory droplets are NOT the only way it is spread.
Because people like you don't understand this, the authors had to release a statement that said that social distancing indoors provides benefits because C19 isn't only spread through ways that they studied.
http://web.mit.edu/bazant/www/COVID-19/Bazant-Bush_PNAS_statement.html
-
You didn't say social distancing indoors, you said social distancing.
As far as plexiglass, I think we had different ideas of what you were referring to. But I mean if you want to take that logic and use it to start shouting at everyone who had a face shield instead of a mask then by all means more power to you.
The study cites indoors as a closed environment (source 29) so it's ignored that open windows, air filters, etc all contribute to mitigate the transmission. I don't know about you, but almost everywhere I went indoors had various things like air filters and open windows and doors.
I don’t understand what you’re arguing here with the window/door opening thing? That’s a great thing and much more effective then social distancing and an easy way for a business and the people in it to limit their risk.
I didn’t say indoor social distancing initially but outdoor social distancing makes even less sense.
The face shields people used are not made of plexiglass but since you bring it up when compared to a mask those things were largely ineffective. Great at blocking large respiratory droplets from getting in your mouth but that’s about it.
-
Compared to other countries we were never in lockdown.
-
I don’t understand what you’re arguing here with the window/door opening thing? That’s a great thing and much more effective then social distancing and an easy way for a business and the people in it to limit their risk.
I didn’t say indoor social distancing initially but outdoor social distancing makes even less sense.
The face shields people used are not made of plexiglass but since you bring it up when compared to a mask those things were largely ineffective. Great at blocking large respiratory droplets from getting in your mouth but that’s about it.
I'm saying the study didn't address any mitigation measure that most places were implementing. I mean how many businesses are you trying to have a "gotcha" moment over for their social distancing that didn't have a single other mitigation measure in place?
Outdoor social distancing definitely made sense in certain scenarios. If you're at a festival, or football game, do you really think that a bunch of people jumping up and down screaming at each other and rubbing up against each other is going to be any less dangerous than if it was inside? Yes, social distancing on restaurant patios or at parks was absurd but there's plenty of times outdoor social distancing made sense.
I agree, I'm agreeing with you just saying that if you're so upset about it I expect you were upset about every face shield wearing person you saw.
-
This is what happens when people use social media to determine what they think science is, instead of understanding exactly what was being studied.
What this says is that social distancing doesn't matter in cases where the virus is being spread through small droplets. The study did NOT say "You are at no less risk when indoors of contracting Covid whether you’re at 3ft, 6ft, or 60 ft."
And why is that? Because small respiratory droplets are NOT the only way it is spread.
Because people like you don't understand this, the authors had to release a statement that said that social distancing indoors provides benefits because C19 isn't only spread through ways that they studied.
http://web.mit.edu/bazant/www/COVID-19/Bazant-Bush_PNAS_statement.html
It said social distancing indoors if you’re NOT wearing a mask is beneficial to prevent large respiratory droplets from traveling the 6ft.
I think we’re shouting past each other here but also largely agreeing. I guess my point is when it comes to the airborne transmission of Covid, which from what I understand is the leading cause of transmission (not the transmission you get when someone essentially sneezes into your mouth) you’re no safer at 3, 6, or 60ft. If you’re breathing that same infected air at 6 ft as you are at 60 ft you’re just as likely to get infected. Unless I’m not understanding airborne transmission risk correctly.
-
I'm saying the study didn't address any mitigation measure that most places were implementing. I mean how many businesses are you trying to have a "gotcha" moment over for their social distancing that didn't have a single other mitigation measure in place?
Outdoor social distancing definitely made sense in certain scenarios. If you're at a festival, or football game, do you really think that a bunch of people jumping up and down screaming at each other and rubbing up against each other is going to be any less dangerous than if it was inside? Yes, social distancing on restaurant patios or at parks was absurd but there's plenty of times outdoor social distancing made sense.
I agree, I'm agreeing with you just saying that if you're so upset about it I expect you were upset about every face shield wearing person you saw.
I’m not trying to have a gotcha moment on anyone or any business. I couldn’t give a sh*t less what an individual or business does or DOESN’T do for that matter throughout the course of the last 18 months.
It is with the benefit of hindsight but was just having a discussion about how a lot of these measures put down on us from the powers that be didn’t really do much but give a false sense of security.
-
Compared to other countries we were never in lockdown.
correct. I work with some Aussie athletes from Melbourne and Perth. The restrictions put in place there were incredibly strict. They could only go outside for shopping; authorised work or education; caregiving, compassionate and medical reasons, and exercise for up to two hours a day, with one other person, and within a 10k radius of their home, had curfews, no visitors were allowed in your homes (expect for an "intimate partner), and this went on for 112 days. That's a lockdown.
-
I’m not trying to have a gotcha moment on anyone or any business. I couldn’t give a sh*t less what an individual or business does or DOESN’T do for that matter throughout the course of the last 18 months.
It is with the benefit of hindsight but was just having a discussion about how a lot of these measures put down on us from the powers that be didn’t really do much but give a false sense of security.
Yes i agree plenty of these were false sense of security for example what percentage of masks were actually effective vs what was someone wearing a cheap bandana thinking that'd work. I'm just saying while some of the measures on your list I agree with and are valid, some on your list seem more to be personal grievances that fail to recognize why they were implemented.
-
It said social distancing indoors if you’re NOT wearing a mask is beneficial to prevent large respiratory droplets from traveling the 6ft.
I think we’re shouting past each other here but also largely agreeing. I guess my point is when it comes to the airborne transmission of Covid, which from what I understand is the leading cause of transmission (not the transmission you get when someone essentially sneezes into your mouth) you’re no safer at 3, 6, or 60ft. If you’re breathing that same infected air at 6 ft as you are at 60 ft you’re just as likely to get infected. Unless I’m not understanding airborne transmission risk correctly.
Nope. You're lying again Cheeks. This is what you said:
Social distancing indoors makes no sense if you follow the science.
That is false and NOT what the study said that you posted.
-
The simple fact is that lockdowns and social distancing are the 2 most effective strategies against an epidemic before a vaccine is available.
This country fought against both and paid the price with 100s of thousands of unnecessary deaths.
-
Nope. You're lying again Cheeks. This is what you said:
That is false and NOT what the study said that you posted.
That’s fair, it does make sense if not masked. And when not masked I think it’s fair to say 6ft of distance doesn’t protect you from airborne transmission. Can we agree on that pppppplease!!!!
-
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210602/HydroxychloroquineAzithromycin-therapy-at-a-higher-dose-improved-survival-by-nearly-20025-in-ventilated-COVID-patients.aspx
Ive been telling you guys for over a year, some docs used hydroxy in a way that saved lives. If the “politics” got out the way, many more lives could have been saved. Sad case for our “experts” and following the “science”.
How many things are we going to have to go thru like this? The left doesn’t like it for some lazy reason, it gets cancelled and later we find out they were wrong. The left never seems t have to admit they were wrong, they make excuses, stand by their nonsense, get an award and move on
How bout those beach front properties al said will be underwater by…? He’s” laughing all the way to his vault
LOL. Not that facts will impact the reality-proofed such as rocket, but:
"Post overstates study’s ‘200%’ finding on hydroxychloroquine’s power vs COVID-19"
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jun/14/facebook-posts/post-overstates-studys-200-finding-hydroxychloroqu/
"Experts called the study poorly designed and caution against drawing conclusions about cause and effect.
"Study: hydroxychloroquine can boost COVID-19 survival chances by nearly 200%," read the headline of a widely shared post on Instagram.
The post was from One America News, the conservative cable network that Trump has often praised. It was flagged as part of Facebook’s efforts to combat false news and misinformation on its News Feed.
Joel Farley, a University of Minnesota College of Pharmacy professor, noted that the study was designed not to test the effectiveness of the two drugs, but rather as an observational study that basically looks at survival and then models what things might have predicted survival.
"The concern is that this poorly designed study might influence" prescribing of the two drugs "when the overwhelming body of evidence has shown it has no benefit for treating COVID," Farley said.
Dr. Neil Schluger, chairman of the Department of Medicine at New York Medical College, said that to conclude cause-and-effect "is an obvious error," calling the study very small with little hard data. "It’s likely that patients who died rapidly received less total (of the two drugs) because they were dead; one can’t conclude from these data that they died because they got fewer doses. It’s also likely that if they received lower doses on a daily basis, it’s because they were sicker to begin with," he said.
Our ruling: For a statement that contains only an element of truth, our rating is Mostly False."
-
LOL. Not that facts will impact the reality-proofed such as rocket, but:
"Post overstates study’s ‘200%’ finding on hydroxychloroquine’s power vs COVID-19"
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jun/14/facebook-posts/post-overstates-studys-200-finding-hydroxychloroqu/
"Experts called the study poorly designed and caution against drawing conclusions about cause and effect.
"Study: hydroxychloroquine can boost COVID-19 survival chances by nearly 200%," read the headline of a widely shared post on Instagram.
The post was from One America News, the conservative cable network that Trump has often praised. It was flagged as part of Facebook’s efforts to combat false news and misinformation on its News Feed.
Joel Farley, a University of Minnesota College of Pharmacy professor, noted that the study was designed not to test the effectiveness of the two drugs, but rather as an observational study that basically looks at survival and then models what things might have predicted survival.
"The concern is that this poorly designed study might influence" prescribing of the two drugs "when the overwhelming body of evidence has shown it has no benefit for treating COVID," Farley said.
Dr. Neil Schluger, chairman of the Department of Medicine at New York Medical College, said that to conclude cause-and-effect "is an obvious error," calling the study very small with little hard data. "It’s likely that patients who died rapidly received less total (of the two drugs) because they were dead; one can’t conclude from these data that they died because they got fewer doses. It’s also likely that if they received lower doses on a daily basis, it’s because they were sicker to begin with," he said.
Our ruling: For a statement that contains only an element of truth, our rating is Mostly False."
once again, "the experts". as a doctor myself, there are procedures that we do, restorative procedures that may not have been "peer reviewed" but hybrid type procedures that we have tried and tested ourselves over time. i am ultimately responsible for me. as dentists in general, we do not like failure. we are talking about fractions of a millimeter. i spoke to a peer some time ago, as i was entering the field, he told me the biggest compliment a dentist could have is seeing his work years down the road. i still see a lot of my dads work and i go out of my way to tell him.
back to the hydroxy-there are real doctors who've used it very successfully-dr steven smith, a very well known and respected infectious disease specialist discusses his methods-Dr. Mohammud Alam(new york), dr harvey risch-yale school of epidemiology
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/causes/new-study-reveals-success-of-hydroxychloroquine-as-covid-treatment/vi-AAKCluk
a year ago, these guys were being reprimanded from using something they believed worked. this wasn't a new drug. if they said they were treating patients for malaria or lupus, no questions asked, but how dare they use it for covid??
this from 6 days ago-
https://news.yahoo.com/study-shows-hydroxychloroquine-zinc-treatments-210300816.html
there are many doctors who believe hydroxy works! their only motivation is efficacy-period! i don't understand why so many like you smith, are so adamantly opposed to using this drug. just let it go dude. i'm listening to the experts who have treated actual patients with it. has it worked 100%? probably not, but risk/benefit leans saving lives. msnbc has had a doc on their show for almost a year. he hasn't been right once, but still get's his time, just like that fake fauci. read his emails
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/04/06/here-are-five-doctors-whose-patients-have-seen-recovery-with-hydroxy-chloroquine-n2566409
-
as a doctor myself,
You're not an MD though, right?
-
You're not an MD though, right?
anti-dentite?
-
once again, "the experts". as a doctor myself, there are procedures that we do, restorative procedures that may not have been "peer reviewed" but hybrid type procedures that we have tried and tested ourselves over time. i am ultimately responsible for me. as dentists in general, we do not like failure. we are talking about fractions of a millimeter. i spoke to a peer some time ago, as i was entering the field, he told me the biggest compliment a dentist could have is seeing his work years down the road. i still see a lot of my dads work and i go out of my way to tell him.
back to the hydroxy-there are real doctors who've used it very successfully-dr steven smith, a very well known and respected infectious disease specialist discusses his methods-Dr. Mohammud Alam(new york), dr harvey risch-yale school of epidemiology
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/causes/new-study-reveals-success-of-hydroxychloroquine-as-covid-treatment/vi-AAKCluk
a year ago, these guys were being reprimanded from using something they believed worked. this wasn't a new drug. if they said they were treating patients for malaria or lupus, no questions asked, but how dare they use it for covid??
this from 6 days ago-
https://news.yahoo.com/study-shows-hydroxychloroquine-zinc-treatments-210300816.html
there are many doctors who believe hydroxy works! their only motivation is efficacy-period! i don't understand why so many like you smith, are so adamantly opposed to using this drug. just let it go dude. i'm listening to the experts who have treated actual patients with it. has it worked 100%? probably not, but risk/benefit leans saving lives. msnbc has had a doc on their show for almost a year. he hasn't been right once, but still get's his time, just like that fake fauci. read his emails
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/04/06/here-are-five-doctors-whose-patients-have-seen-recovery-with-hydroxy-chloroquine-n2566409
Please share a single peer-reviewed study that shows the efficacy of HCQ. We'll wait.
I guess as a "doctor" you were taught that anecdotes outweigh scientific evidence, at least if they align with your political preferences.
-
Please share a single peer-reviewed study that shows the efficacy of HCQ. We'll wait.
Uh ... hello!
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/trump-favorite-doctor-believes-demon-140252819.html
Stella Immanuel became a viral sensation after a Plandemic-esque video, funded by the right-wing political organization the Tea Party Patriots and captured by Breitbart News Network, garnered millions of views on Facebook. The Houston-based doctor praised the use of hydroxychloroquine and declared that masks were not needed to quell COVID-19 — two claims that have previously been debunked by both the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the World Health Organization.
But, back to Immanuel. She’s a licensed pediatrician in Texas, according to the Texas Medical Board, and operates a medical clinic next to her church, Firepower Ministries. And her confounding medical philosophies don’t stop at her stance on face masks. The one that caught my eye? Demon sperm.
I’m not the only one who’s intrigued. The idea of demon sperm has taken Twitter by storm. It comes from Immanuel’s claim that medical issues such as endometriosis, cysts, infertility, and erectile dysfunction are caused when someone has sex with “spirit husbands” and “spirit wives”.
“Many women suffer from astral sex regularly,” Immanuel’s website, firepowerministry.org, reads. “Astral sex is the ability to project one’s spirit man into the victim’s body and have intercourse with it. This practice is very common amongst Satanists. They leave their physical bodies in a dormant state while they project their spirits into the body of whoever they want to have sex with.”
She also offers up this prayer for anyone suffering from issues ranging from “marital distress” to “serious gynecological problems”: “I destroy the power of any demonic seed in my life from the womb, in the name of Jesus.”
When asked about Immanuel and her bogus claims during a press conference, Donald Trump simply stated: “She was on air, along with many other doctors, and they were big fans of hydroxychloroquine. I thought she was very impressive.”
Could Donald Trump be infected with demon sperm himself? Only time will tell.
I mean, I can't believe anybody needs more evidence than this! Get on board with Dr. Demon Sperm, ex-President Pandemic and our esteemed dr. rocket -- hydroxycloroquine is a miracle!
-
anti-dentite?
You mean mouth janitors?
-
You mean mouth janitors?
And we have today's winner of the internet!!!!!
-
you guys having fun?
like most everything else, the proof will eventually come out, peer reviews, evidence, etc...when you're eventually proved wrong, you just change the subject and move onto the next steaming pile your media feeds us. russiarussiarussia, virus was from a pangolin...no wet bar...no, our own military, that dude on pornhub is only a really good doppelganger of hunter and on and on
-
you guys having fun?
like most everything else, the proof will eventually come out, peer reviews, evidence, etc...when you're eventually proved wrong, you just change the subject and move onto the next steaming pile your media feeds us. russiarussiarussia, virus was from a pangolin...no wet bar...no, our own military, that dude on pornhub is only a really good doppelganger of hunter and on and on
you forgot to mention how silly we’ll feel when the truth comes out about the cabal of baby-eating pedophiles, dr. q.
and you’ll definitely have the last laugh when your hero is reinstated in august!
-
you guys having fun?
like most everything else, the proof will eventually come out, peer reviews, evidence, etc...when you're eventually proved wrong, you just change the subject and move onto the next steaming pile your media feeds us. russiarussiarussia, virus was from a pangolin...no wet bar...no, our own military, that dude on pornhub is only a really good doppelganger of hunter and on and on
Still waiting for you to show us a single peer reviewed study. Just one, any single one. C'mon "doctor", just one.
Weird how you latch on to unproven anecdotes from guys you present as experts in their field, but then when actual scientific, peer-reviewed studies with hard data you dismiss them as "experts". Strange, isn't "doctor"?
-
Still waiting for you to show us a single peer reviewed study. Just one, any single one. C'mon "doctor", just one.
Weird how you latch on to unproven anecdotes from guys you present as experts in their field, but then when actual scientific, peer-reviewed studies with hard data you dismiss them as "experts". Strange, isn't "doctor"?
you must have missed the class on critical thinking, thinking for yourself, not what to think. it will be forthcoming once the "experts" give it their "blessings" as i said, you don't necessarily need a peer review here. this has been a tried and tested drug. it's cheap...let me repeat, it's cheap...hint-hint-hint. there are a number of very well known and respected epidemiology doctors who have prescribed it in a cocktail, different doses with z-pak at specific points within the disease process with some very positive results, like saving lives results.
ya gotta think, why the big uproar over a drug that has been around a long time. why were people censored when the wuhan lab theory was floated over a year ago? they have reprimanded doctors for even trying to use this drug for treatments, threaten to take their licenses away, etc...whatever happened to...it's between my doctor and me? i see,, that's only for abortion and gender transitioning hormonal tx. hydroxy works, they just won't let anyone show the positive results
-
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
-
you must have missed the class on critical thinking,
(https://www.quotemaster.org/images/52/52a7d2591138820da046082554a49d82.gif)
-
as i said, you don't necessarily need a peer review here.
Yeah, you really do. File this under "doctor" thinks actual evidence not needed.
this has been a tried and tested drug.
For MALARIA.
Bleach, like HCQ, is tried and true. Neither are useful against COVID, at least not if you want the patient to live.
there are a number of very well known and respected epidemiology doctors who have prescribed it in a cocktail, different doses with z-pak at specific points within the disease process with some very positive results, like saving lives results.
You like to make an appeal to authority when your experts agree with your Fox-driven view. When they don't, they are "experts".
Show ONE peer-reviewed study that what you say is true. Just one. There are multiple scientific studies that say this is horsecrap and not a single one that shows it is true. Not that actual facts have the least impact on the reality-proofed like yourself.
ya gotta think, why the big uproar over a drug that has been around a long time. why were people censored when the wuhan lab theory was floated over a year ago? they have reprimanded doctors for even trying to use this drug for treatments, threaten to take their licenses away, etc...whatever happened to...it's between my doctor and me? i see,, that's only for abortion and gender transitioning hormonal tx. hydroxy works, they just won't let anyone show the positive results
Yes, its all a conspiracy. Never mind the published studies, never mind that it has been given trials...it is all being suppressed.
And no one is stopping you or a real medical doctor from taking it, so once again your logic is idiotic.
Tell us more about Jewish space lasers and Hunter Biden.
-
Hydroxy study debunked. Anyone surprised?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/06/21/hydroxycholoroquine-coronavirus-treatment-trump-allies-cant-quit/
-
Hydroxy study debunked. Anyone surprised?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/06/21/hydroxycholoroquine-coronavirus-treatment-trump-allies-cant-quit/
This is just a more detailed version of the critique I posted of the study earlier. But even this won't change the minds of the true believers, facts never do.
Still waiting for sprocket to post one single peer reviewed study showing its effectiveness. Just one.
-
once again, "the experts". as a doctor myself, there are procedures that we do, restorative procedures that may not have been "peer reviewed" but hybrid type procedures that we have tried and tested ourselves over time. i am ultimately responsible for me. as dentists in general, we do not like failure. we are talking about fractions of a millimeter. i spoke to a peer some time ago, as i was entering the field, he told me the biggest compliment a dentist could have is seeing his work years down the road. i still see a lot of my dads work and i go out of my way to tell him.
back to the hydroxy-there are real doctors who've used it very successfully-dr steven smith, a very well known and respected infectious disease specialist discusses his methods-Dr. Mohammud Alam(new york), dr harvey risch-yale school of epidemiology
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/causes/new-study-reveals-success-of-hydroxychloroquine-as-covid-treatment/vi-AAKCluk
a year ago, these guys were being reprimanded from using something they believed worked. this wasn't a new drug. if they said they were treating patients for malaria or lupus, no questions asked, but how dare they use it for covid??
this from 6 days ago-
https://news.yahoo.com/study-shows-hydroxychloroquine-zinc-treatments-210300816.html
there are many doctors who believe hydroxy works! their only motivation is efficacy-period! i don't understand why so many like you smith, are so adamantly opposed to using this drug. just let it go dude. i'm listening to the experts who have treated actual patients with it. has it worked 100%? probably not, but risk/benefit leans saving lives. msnbc has had a doc on their show for almost a year. he hasn't been right once, but still get's his time, just like that fake fauci. read his emails
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/04/06/here-are-five-doctors-whose-patients-have-seen-recovery-with-hydroxy-chloroquine-n2566409
Rocket, there have been multiple large scale clinical trials of HCQ, HCQ/AZ, and HCQ/Zn, all come to the same conclusion, no medical benefit and an increased risk of side effects.
Any doctor prescribing that medication should have their license suspended.
What all of this unequivocally proves, is that having the title of doctor does not preclude one from being scientifically illiterate and an idiot.
-
Rocket, there have been multiple large scale clinical trials of HCQ, HCQ/AZ, and HCQ/Zn, all come to the same conclusion, no medical benefit and an increased risk of side effects.
Any doctor prescribing that medication should have their license suspended.
What all of this unequivocally proves, is that having the title of doctor does not preclude one from being scientifically illiterate and an idiot.
I cannot believe you would discredit Dr. Demon Seed, Dr. MyPillow and Dr. Trump this way!
-
Hey, rocket brain's favorite doctor is back with more life saving advice!
Pharmacists Fight Off COVID Truthers Demanding Horse Medicine Instead of the Jab
https://www.thedailybeast.com/demon-sperm-doctors-new-bogus-cure-has-covid-truthers-eating-horse-paste
"Devotees have besieged pharmacists with prescriptions from shady online prescribers, forcing pharmacies to crack down and treat the antiparasitic drugs like opioids. As human-approved ivermectin prescriptions have been harder to come by, enthusiasts have taken to raiding rural tractor supply stores in search of ivermectin horse paste (packed with “apple flavor!”) and weighed the benefits of taking ivermectin “sheep drench” and a noromectin “injection for swine and cattle.”
Like the Trumpist miracle cure hydroxychloroquine before it, the hype for ivermectin comes against the advice of the medical community, which has been skeptical of the drug’s purported benefits. Although ivermectin optimists point to a few trials of the drug on COVID patients, two of the flashiest studies have either been withdrawn or heavily criticized due to errors.
An Arizona-based pharmacist told The Daily Beast that their pharmacy had been inundated with ivermectin prescriptions from America’s Frontline Doctors.
The group was founded in 2020 by Dr Simone Gold, currently awaiting trial on charges related to her alleged participation in the Jan. 6 insurrection, and pushed an anti-lockdown, pro-hydroxychloroquine agenda with the help of Dr. Stella Immanuel, the so-called “demon sperm” doctor who has professed a belief in aliens and “reptilian” overlords.
After spending much of the pandemic touting hydroxychloroquine, America’s Frontline Doctors now offers tele-health consults for $90 and directs prospective patients and visitors looking to get scripts for hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin filled to Ravkoo, an online pharmacy startup based in Florida.
“At the peak we were getting between 5-10 scripts per week. (Demon sperm ‘MD’ was calling them into our voicemail). Recently, it’s been 1-2 a month thankfully,” the Arizona pharmacist messaged The Daily Beast."
-
I have a co-worker who is regretting getting vaccinated, instead convinced that ivermectin is the answer to COVID. This has led to raised voices and a slammed door.
-
Hey, rocket brain's favorite doctor is back with more life saving advice!
Pharmacists Fight Off COVID Truthers Demanding Horse Medicine Instead of the Jab
https://www.thedailybeast.com/demon-sperm-doctors-new-bogus-cure-has-covid-truthers-eating-horse-paste
"Devotees have besieged pharmacists with prescriptions from shady online prescribers, forcing pharmacies to crack down and treat the antiparasitic drugs like opioids. As human-approved ivermectin prescriptions have been harder to come by, enthusiasts have taken to raiding rural tractor supply stores in search of ivermectin horse paste (packed with “apple flavor!”) and weighed the benefits of taking ivermectin “sheep drench” and a noromectin “injection for swine and cattle.”
Like the Trumpist miracle cure hydroxychloroquine before it, the hype for ivermectin comes against the advice of the medical community, which has been skeptical of the drug’s purported benefits. Although ivermectin optimists point to a few trials of the drug on COVID patients, two of the flashiest studies have either been withdrawn or heavily criticized due to errors.
An Arizona-based pharmacist told The Daily Beast that their pharmacy had been inundated with ivermectin prescriptions from America’s Frontline Doctors.
The group was founded in 2020 by Dr Simone Gold, currently awaiting trial on charges related to her alleged participation in the Jan. 6 insurrection, and pushed an anti-lockdown, pro-hydroxychloroquine agenda with the help of Dr. Stella Immanuel, the so-called “demon sperm” doctor who has professed a belief in aliens and “reptilian” overlords.
After spending much of the pandemic touting hydroxychloroquine, America’s Frontline Doctors now offers tele-health consults for $90 and directs prospective patients and visitors looking to get scripts for hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin filled to Ravkoo, an online pharmacy startup based in Florida.
“At the peak we were getting between 5-10 scripts per week. (Demon sperm ‘MD’ was calling them into our voicemail). Recently, it’s been 1-2 a month thankfully,” the Arizona pharmacist messaged The Daily Beast."
Seriously, why do these doctors still have medical licenses.
-
Seriously, why do these doctors still have medical licenses. What this shows, is that the quality of American doctors isn't so great.
That seems like a pretty unfair summation based on a few lunatics. Its not like the vaccination efforts are hampered because a resounding percentage of doctors are curbing the efforts with caution or outright anti-vax sentiment.
-
That seems like a pretty unfair summation based on a few lunatics. Its not like the vaccination efforts are hampered because a resounding percentage of doctors are curbing the efforts with caution or outright anti-vax sentiment.
I agree. It was an unfair summation based on a few lunatics.
What I meant, and spectacularly failed at saying, was that this just shows that NOT ALL doctors can be trusted, or are brilliant.
I was wrong. My bad.
-
Some are lunatics, no doubt, but some are doing it primarily to make an easy buck by separating the suckers from their money. Morally and professionally reprehensible, but not a reflection on doctors overall.
-
Hey, rocket brain's favorite doctor is back with more life saving advice!
Pharmacists Fight Off COVID Truthers Demanding Horse Medicine Instead of the Jab
https://www.thedailybeast.com/demon-sperm-doctors-new-bogus-cure-has-covid-truthers-eating-horse-paste
"Devotees have besieged pharmacists with prescriptions from shady online prescribers, forcing pharmacies to crack down and treat the antiparasitic drugs like opioids. As human-approved ivermectin prescriptions have been harder to come by, enthusiasts have taken to raiding rural tractor supply stores in search of ivermectin horse paste (packed with “apple flavor!”) and weighed the benefits of taking ivermectin “sheep drench” and a noromectin “injection for swine and cattle.”
Like the Trumpist miracle cure hydroxychloroquine before it, the hype for ivermectin comes against the advice of the medical community, which has been skeptical of the drug’s purported benefits. Although ivermectin optimists point to a few trials of the drug on COVID patients, two of the flashiest studies have either been withdrawn or heavily criticized due to errors.
An Arizona-based pharmacist told The Daily Beast that their pharmacy had been inundated with ivermectin prescriptions from America’s Frontline Doctors.
The group was founded in 2020 by Dr Simone Gold, currently awaiting trial on charges related to her alleged participation in the Jan. 6 insurrection, and pushed an anti-lockdown, pro-hydroxychloroquine agenda with the help of Dr. Stella Immanuel, the so-called “demon sperm” doctor who has professed a belief in aliens and “reptilian” overlords.
After spending much of the pandemic touting hydroxychloroquine, America’s Frontline Doctors now offers tele-health consults for $90 and directs prospective patients and visitors looking to get scripts for hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin filled to Ravkoo, an online pharmacy startup based in Florida.
“At the peak we were getting between 5-10 scripts per week. (Demon sperm ‘MD’ was calling them into our voicemail). Recently, it’s been 1-2 a month thankfully,” the Arizona pharmacist messaged The Daily Beast."
you are nothing but a c#$ks**@ing trolling liar-i've never heard of nor mentioned any of the people in this article...dailybeast? puhleez tell me this isn't your "nytimes" but would explain your wokedness
-
you are nothing but a c#$ks**@ing trolling liar-i've never heard of nor mentioned any of the people in this article...dailybeast? puhleez tell me this isn't your "nytimes" but would explain your wokedness
Lol you can say cocksucking if you want. The mods don't think that's a curse word, probably because they're slurpers. Even if you couldn't say cock, you still wouldn't have to censor sucking.
-
you are nothing but a c#$ks**@ing trolling liar-i've never heard of nor mentioned any of the people in this article...dailybeast? puhleez tell me this isn't your "nytimes" but would explain your wokedness
Maybe re-read the PM you sent me like 10 days ago
-
Curious. Sciencers, if the potential effectiveness of this drug is due to its anti-inflammatory properties, it seems to me other drugs with similar capabilities, and definitely specifically anti-inflammatory drugs (rather than a drug used primarily as an anti-depressant) would have already shown usefulness, no?
An Antidepressant Is the Surprising New Anti-COVID Drug
https://www.thedailybeast.com/antidepressant-drug-fluvoxamine-could-reduce-risk-of-hospitalization-for-covid-19-patients
"But remdesivir might have some company soon. A new clinical trial shows that fluvoxamine—typically prescribed to treat depression, anxiety, and obsessive-compulsive disorder—shortened hospital stays for people battling severe COVID infections.
The findings, published in The Lancet Global Health on Wednesday, could be a huge breakthrough to save patient lives and shorten the recovery from COVID—not least because fluvoxamine is incredibly cheap and can be administered orally.
Fluvoxamine was first introduced to the world in 1983, and has been FDA-approved since 1994. It’s a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, or SSRI. Unlike remdesivir, it does not have any obvious anti-viral properties. Edward Mills, a co-author of the new study based at McMaster University in Canada, told The Daily Beast the effects are most likely anti-inflammatory.
This is key, because in many severe cases of COVID, it isn’t the virus that kills—it’s the body’s own immune response going into hyperdrive and unleashing itself on healthy cells and tissue, at an incredibly rapid pace."
-
Curious. Sciencers, if the potential effectiveness of this drug is due to its anti-inflammatory properties, it seems to me other drugs with similar capabilities, and definitely specifically anti-inflammatory drugs (rather than a drug used primarily as an anti-depressant) would have already shown usefulness, no?
An Antidepressant Is the Surprising New Anti-COVID Drug
https://www.thedailybeast.com/antidepressant-drug-fluvoxamine-could-reduce-risk-of-hospitalization-for-covid-19-patients
"But remdesivir might have some company soon. A new clinical trial shows that fluvoxamine—typically prescribed to treat depression, anxiety, and obsessive-compulsive disorder—shortened hospital stays for people battling severe COVID infections.
The findings, published in The Lancet Global Health on Wednesday, could be a huge breakthrough to save patient lives and shorten the recovery from COVID—not least because fluvoxamine is incredibly cheap and can be administered orally.
Fluvoxamine was first introduced to the world in 1983, and has been FDA-approved since 1994. It’s a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, or SSRI. Unlike remdesivir, it does not have any obvious anti-viral properties. Edward Mills, a co-author of the new study based at McMaster University in Canada, told The Daily Beast the effects are most likely anti-inflammatory.
This is key, because in many severe cases of COVID, it isn’t the virus that kills—it’s the body’s own immune response going into hyperdrive and unleashing itself on healthy cells and tissue, at an incredibly rapid pace."
Looking at the raw data, I'm not overly impressed. I would stick with the existing treatments.
-
So... Molnupiravir - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/27/health/covid-pill-access-molnupiravir.html
I haven't seen trial/study outcomes from Molnupiravir yet but Merck claims that their treatment "cut hospitalizations and deaths by half among patients with early symptoms of COVID-19." https://www.merck.com/news/merck-and-ridgebacks-investigational-oral-antiviral-molnupiravir-reduced-the-risk-of-hospitalization-or-death-by-approximately-50-percent-compared-to-placebo-for-patients-with-mild-or-moderat/
In addition to asking for emergency approval from the FDA, Merck has sought out 5 licensing deals to speed up manufacture of the drug to increase its global availability - https://www.merck.com/news/amid-humanitarian-crisis-in-india-merck-announces-voluntary-licensing-agreements-with-five-indian-generics-manufacturers-to-accelerate-and-expand-global-access-to-molnupiravir-an-investigational-ora/
A ~$20 treatment to keep people out of the hospital, combined with our fairly effective vaccine, might do the trick here.
-
So... Molnupiravir - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/27/health/covid-pill-access-molnupiravir.html
I haven't seen trial/study outcomes from Molnupiravir yet but Merck claims that their treatment "cut hospitalizations and deaths by half among patients with early symptoms of COVID-19." https://www.merck.com/news/merck-and-ridgebacks-investigational-oral-antiviral-molnupiravir-reduced-the-risk-of-hospitalization-or-death-by-approximately-50-percent-compared-to-placebo-for-patients-with-mild-or-moderat/
In addition to asking for emergency approval from the FDA, Merck has sought out 5 licensing deals to speed up manufacture of the drug to increase its global availability - https://www.merck.com/news/amid-humanitarian-crisis-in-india-merck-announces-voluntary-licensing-agreements-with-five-indian-generics-manufacturers-to-accelerate-and-expand-global-access-to-molnupiravir-an-investigational-ora/
A ~$20 treatment to keep people out of the hospital, combined with our fairly effective vaccine, might do the trick here.
I mean, that'd be great.
-
I mean, that'd be great.
That's how I feel too. Until then, I'm going to keep taking licks off my tube of horse apple paste.
-
Roqqet's favorite doctor, Dr. Demon Sperm, she of the HCQ and ivermectin cured, is back!
Dr. 'Demon Sperm' Warns Our Leaders Have Been Replaced With Blood-Drinking Clones
https://www.wonkette.com/dr-demon-sperm-warns-our-leaders-have-been-replaced-with-blood-drinking-clones
"These are the clones that are not human. Some of them are governors in states, some of them are Presidents in different countries, some of them are big leaders of places [unintelligible] like the CDC, WHO, the FDA, some of those people are leaders and their job is to make laws that will cause people to die. And you know why? Because they are blood drinkers. They need people to die because they need to drink blood.
I actually think that the whole pandemic was a Trojan Horse for vaccines. COVID, from day one, I've always said it, it's completely treatable, and it's completely preventable, And there is no reason for you to be giving a vaccine for a disease that's completely treatable, and completely preventable. And on top of that, the death rate of COVID is not that high. So, we need to wake up and realize that these mandates, the vaccines, and everything is taking us right into the book of Revelations where you cannot buy or sell without taking the vax. I tell people my big mantra right now is, get prevention, early treatment, if you get sick, sick, sick and end up in the hospital, don't be afraid, because you know that it's a transition. If you're, if you're a child of God, if you're a Christian, you should not be afraid to die, first of all. So the reason why they can cage us is we're all so scared. So I said, you know, die saved and die human. [...]"
She's right about this, and she's right about ivermectin, right roqqet?
-
Roqqet's favorite doctor, Dr. Demon Sperm, she of the HCQ and ivermectin cured, is back!
Dr. 'Demon Sperm' Warns Our Leaders Have Been Replaced With Blood-Drinking Clones
https://www.wonkette.com/dr-demon-sperm-warns-our-leaders-have-been-replaced-with-blood-drinking-clones
"These are the clones that are not human. Some of them are governors in states, some of them are Presidents in different countries, some of them are big leaders of places [unintelligible] like the CDC, WHO, the FDA, some of those people are leaders and their job is to make laws that will cause people to die. And you know why? Because they are blood drinkers. They need people to die because they need to drink blood.
I actually think that the whole pandemic was a Trojan Horse for vaccines. COVID, from day one, I've always said it, it's completely treatable, and it's completely preventable, And there is no reason for you to be giving a vaccine for a disease that's completely treatable, and completely preventable. And on top of that, the death rate of COVID is not that high. So, we need to wake up and realize that these mandates, the vaccines, and everything is taking us right into the book of Revelations where you cannot buy or sell without taking the vax. I tell people my big mantra right now is, get prevention, early treatment, if you get sick, sick, sick and end up in the hospital, don't be afraid, because you know that it's a transition. If you're, if you're a child of God, if you're a Christian, you should not be afraid to die, first of all. So the reason why they can cage us is we're all so scared. So I said, you know, die saved and die human. [...]"
She's right about this, and she's right about ivermectin, right roqqet?
get back to me schit hole when you know something about science and biology. btw-never heard of this person, but when you can put your large crayons away, check out dr stephen smith-obviously no relation to schit for brains ts
-
get back to me schit hole when you know something about science and biology. btw-never heard of this person, but when you can put your large crayons away, check out dr stephen smith-obviously no relation to schit for brains ts
schit hole is a new one.
-
get back to me schit hole when you know something about science and biology. btw-never heard of this person, but when you can put your large crayons away, check out dr stephen smith-obviously no relation to schit for brains ts
10 of 10
Keep posting while drunk
-
10 of 10
Keep posting while drunk
have not had a drink in 15 years jack
-
have had a drink in 15 years jack
10 of 10
Keep posting while high
-
get back to me schit hole when you know something about science and biology. btw-never heard of this person, but when you can put your large crayons away, check out dr stephen smith-obviously no relation to schit for brains ts
Do you mean sciency stuff like ivermectin doesn't work against COVID, and HCQ doesn't work against COVID, and vaccines are more potent that natural immunity? That sort of science stuff that you are clueless about?
I truly feel sorry for your patients. A "health care professional" that only knows conspiracy theories.
-
10 of 10
Keep posting while drunk
Nope, he is just this stupid all the time.
He has no true excuse.
-
I googled Dr. Stephen Smith. You aren't helping yourself using him as a resource, rocket.
-
have not had a drink in 15 years jack
Maybe you should start up again. Might be the missing ingredient that will help you start making sense.
-
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizers-novel-covid-19-oral-antiviral-treatment-candidate
Hell yeah, more of this please.
-
Always sed therapeutics ar da answer, hey?
-
Always sed therapeutics ar da answer, hey?
You’ve always been very prescient with your predictions of medicine and inoculation being the answer to this novel disease. If only more people could have seen that those interventions would have been helpful….
-
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizers-novel-covid-19-oral-antiviral-treatment-candidate
Hell yeah, more of this please.
I it's a combination of horse paste and anti malaria drugs
-
Always sed therapeutics ar da answer, hey?
Heard the President of MCW speak the other day. He said that our current therapeutics are decent, but not great. He did say there was some promise on the horizon with a Tamiflu like equivalent but it was hardly a grand slam.
Finally, he also said that currently what's the best way to combat Covid are vaccines and social actions like masking and distancing. And called these vaccines a medical miracle that are not experimental, didn't cut any serious corners, and are going to open the door for future vaccinations down the line.
He also believes that coronaviruses with spike protiens can only have so many variants, so we may be out of the woods and into endemic stage next calendar year. But admitted that not everyone agrees with him.
Follow the science.
-
He also believes that coronaviruses with spike protiens can only have so many variants, so we may be out of the woods and into endemic stage next calendar year. But admitted that not everyone agrees with him.
Follow the science.
A good way to make sure this is the case would be to get the rest of the world some of our vaccine supply.
But I largely agree with him, from everything I've read. Now that the kids are eligible, I think we're hopefully seeing the crisis stage of this finally end.
-
Always sed therapeutics ar da answer, hey?
Awfully naive to assume the folks who won't get a vaccine jump at the chance to down a pill that is just as experimental and is created by big pharma. They may beg for it when they're really sick, but it hasn't been tested on the really sick.
-
Awfully naive to assume the folks who won't get a vaccine jump at the chance to down a pill that is just as experimental and is created by big pharma. They may beg for it when they're really sick, but it hasn't been tested on the really sick.
All depends on what right wing media tells them. See Vaccine vs. Monoclonal Antibodies.
Pretending to be anti-vax while being themselves vaccinated is intended to cause as much chaos and discontent as possible in order to regain political power. And of course it is working because they can count on their followers to swallow anything they are told. (War on Christmas! Migrant caravans! Transgender bathrooms! MS-13! Critical Race Theory!)
However, it does kills their constituents. Their calculus is that the benefit of ginning up their base outweighs the cost of a few hundred thousand extra dead voters. But, monoclonal anti-bodies are a nice way to have their cake and eat it too. So, I predict they will be in favor of the new anti-viral pills as well.
-
C'mon outta ur act, T-Squared, hey?
-
Rogers took Ivermectin on the advice of his "good friend" Joe Rogan.
You can't make this crap up.
Thankfully he's rich enough that he can throw money at the problem so Rogers will be fine. Sadly there are a lot of people that aren't too smart and look up to Rogers and will die because of his stupidity.
Hopefully the NFL nuts up and ends this dude's season.
-
All depends on what right wing media tells them. See Vaccine vs. Monoclonal Antibodies.
Pretending to be anti-vax while being themselves vaccinated is intended to cause as much chaos and discontent as possible in order to regain political power. And of course it is working because they can count on their followers to swallow anything they are told. (War on Christmas! Migrant caravans! Transgender bathrooms! MS-13! Critical Race Theory!)
However, it does kills their constituents. Their calculus is that the benefit of ginning up their base outweighs the cost of a few hundred thousand extra dead voters. But, monoclonal anti-bodies are a nice way to have their cake and eat it too. So, I predict they will be in favor of the new anti-viral pills as well.
so your pravda networks have been sooo right on all along? you've got to be kidding me squared t...remind me what the ratings are again?? please tell me you've at least come around to the fact that natural immunity is way more effective than the vax. let's start there. btw, your angry lefty rants are embarrassing and leave the scientific stuff to us big boys so you can get back to your fascinating gender diversity equity and inclusion studies
-
so your pravda networks have been sooo right on all along? you've got to be kidding me squared t...remind me what the ratings are again?? please tell me you've at least come around to the fact that natural immunity is way more effective than the vax. let's start there. btw, your angry lefty rants are embarrassing and leave the scientific stuff to us big boys so you can get back to your fascinating gender diversity equity and inclusion studies
You gonna comment on the speech from the President of MCW? Cause he’s a scientist who dunked on pretty much anything you have said in this topic.
-
so your pravda networks have been sooo right on all along? you've got to be kidding me squared t...remind me what the ratings are again?? please tell me you've at least come around to the fact that natural immunity is way more effective than the vax. let's start there. btw, your angry lefty rants are embarrassing and leave the scientific stuff to us big boys so you can get back to your fascinating gender diversity equity and inclusion studies
10 of 10
Where to begin? Great use of pravda. The lack of irony is incredible but greatly appreciated. Leaving the science to the big boys is brilliant, especially after what you wrote about natural immunity and the vaccine. I should dock you for not including CRT on the end but that would be picking nits. Honestly, Marquette should make this post their new motto.
-
so your pravda networks have been sooo right on all along? you've got to be kidding me squared t...remind me what the ratings are again?? please tell me you've at least come around to the fact that natural immunity is way more effective than the vax. let's start there. btw, your angry lefty rants are embarrassing and leave the scientific stuff to us big boys so you can get back to your fascinating gender diversity equity and inclusion studies
Oh god. This has to be an 11 out of 10. The incorrect information, the lack of self awareness...magnificent.
-
You gonna comment on the speech from the President of MCW? Cause he’s a scientist who dunked on pretty much anything you have said in this topic.
i haven't seen dr john raymond's speech but i can cite many other observations and studies regarding the vaccine vs the natural immunity developed following exposure to and/or recovery from covid. the problem here is so many disagree with the sources of the information provided. let's start with the NIH-
if you could provide a link to doc raymond's speech i'd appreciate that and a you tube of him dunking anything would be great too ;)
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19
although i struggle sometimes with the NIH and the CDC as a whole, i think we can all agree this is can be a safe reference for our intents and purposes here. nothing is set in stone. obviously the responses to a vaccine and the development of a natural immunity are going to vary. however, understanding how our bodies develop a natural immunity to anything in general just makes sense. one doesn't need to be a doctor to understand this, but having a background in cell, micro and immunology helps. forget can get pretty deep here as well as many others. "peer" reviewed studies are difficult to come by here because-1) we are still learning about this virus, it's mutations and it's affects on the populace in general. this is going to be a years and years long process where you are going to see previously held beliefs go by the wayside like bad habits and 2) this thing has been polarized way too much and the "follow the money" thing is too hard to overcome. everyone wants to be the first to "save the world" and along with that unfortunately comes power.
one good old fashioned reference for natural immunity-eating a pound of dirt...
back to the immune response thing-
our bodies, upon recovery from an illness, develop so many more responses against the whole viral particle as opposed to just the spike proteins. the other parts of the viral particle-the viral envelope proteins and probably most importantly the RNA and nucleoproteins are not affected by the vaccines. when one gets sick and recovers, our bodies develop varying degrees of defense. by that i mean the numbers of B-cells, killer and helper T-cells and the associated CD4 and CD8 cells produced will vary in each individual and correspondingly, the duration and the quality of the immunity.
the reason for this is because the vaccine only contains the mRNA to produce the spike proteins which our bodies then form the B and T cells needed to recognize as foreign and harmful. the first thing our bodies recognize upon introduction into our bodies are the spike proteins.
if our bodies become overwhelmed and/or there are other compromised health issues leading to a compromised immune response and all we have for defense is a vaccine trained to recognize only the spike proteins, it leaves many other viral particles to have their way and run rampant.
we are still learning more about why some people get more sick than others and/or die. why do some still get covid after receiving the vaccine. what are the commodities and how they affect recoveries or lead to deaths.
bottom line, in a normal healthy individual, a naturally developed immunity is superior to an artificially developed one.
-
i haven't seen dr john raymond's speech but i can cite many other observations and studies regarding the vaccine vs the natural immunity developed following exposure to and/or recovery from covid. the problem here is so many disagree with the sources of the information provided. let's start with the NIH-
if you could provide a link to doc raymond's speech i'd appreciate that and a you tube of him dunking anything would be great too ;)
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19
although i struggle sometimes with the NIH and the CDC as a whole, i think we can all agree this is can be a safe reference for our intents and purposes here. nothing is set in stone. obviously the responses to a vaccine and the development of a natural immunity are going to vary. however, understanding how our bodies develop a natural immunity to anything in general just makes sense. one doesn't need to be a doctor to understand this, but having a background in cell, micro and immunology helps. forget can get pretty deep here as well as many others. "peer" reviewed studies are difficult to come by here because-1) we are still learning about this virus, it's mutations and it's affects on the populace in general. this is going to be a years and years long process where you are going to see previously held beliefs go by the wayside like bad habits and 2) this thing has been polarized way too much and the "follow the money" thing is too hard to overcome. everyone wants to be the first to "save the world" and along with that unfortunately comes power.
one good old fashioned reference for natural immunity-eating a pound of dirt...
back to the immune response thing-
our bodies, upon recovery from an illness, develop so many more responses against the whole viral particle as opposed to just the spike proteins. the other parts of the viral particle-the viral envelope proteins and probably most importantly the RNA and nucleoproteins are not affected by the vaccines. when one gets sick and recovers, our bodies develop varying degrees of defense. by that i mean the numbers of B-cells, killer and helper T-cells and the associated CD4 and CD8 cells produced will vary in each individual and correspondingly, the duration and the quality of the immunity.
the reason for this is because the vaccine only contains the mRNA to produce the spike proteins which our bodies then form the B and T cells needed to recognize as foreign and harmful. the first thing our bodies recognize upon introduction into our bodies are the spike proteins.
if our bodies become overwhelmed and/or there are other compromised health issues leading to a compromised immune response and all we have for defense is a vaccine trained to recognize only the spike proteins, it leaves many other viral particles to have their way and run rampant.
we are still learning more about why some people get more sick than others and/or die. why do some still get covid after receiving the vaccine. what are the commodities and how they affect recoveries or lead to deaths.
bottom line, in a normal healthy individual, a naturally developed immunity is superior to an artificially developed one.
While we ultimately disagree on the bolded line (and then some of the details related to it above), largely because of both some of the published literature regarding COVID, but also some of the lengthier literature on the development of the SARS (and from it SARS-COV2) vaccines, I think it is only fair to say that this is a well written post.
This looks more like how we disagree on things in science and then move forward as a group when more data comes out.
I'll also note that there is lengthy literature precedence indicating vaccine induced immunity is superior to natural infection in a wide variety of illnesses.
-
But again, the natural immunity is better than vaccination is an illogical viewpoint. Natural immunity requires you to catch Covid. Why would you catch Covid to prevent getting Covid?
-
But again, the natural immunity is better than vaccination is an illogical viewpoint. Natural immunity requires you to catch Covid. Why would you catch Covid to prevent getting Covid?
100% agreed.
Separate point. For those interested in a general commentary on why vaccines can provide a more durable and robust immune response. This fairly basic and short article covers the high points. One key aspect is the tunability of vaccines to provide the optimal response. The SARS-COV2 vaccines were built on all the tuning data observed over the last 18 years we have been developing a SARS vaccine.
https://theconversation.com/why-a-vaccine-can-provide-better-immunity-than-an-actual-infection-145476 (https://theconversation.com/why-a-vaccine-can-provide-better-immunity-than-an-actual-infection-145476)
-
100% agreed.
Separate point. For those interested in a general commentary on why vaccines can provide a more durable and robust immune response. This fairly basic and short article covers the high points. One key aspect is the tunability of vaccines to provide the optimal response. The SARS-COV2 vaccines were built on all the tuning data observed over the last 18 years we have been developing a SARS vaccine.
https://theconversation.com/why-a-vaccine-can-provide-better-immunity-than-an-actual-infection-145476 (https://theconversation.com/why-a-vaccine-can-provide-better-immunity-than-an-actual-infection-145476)
in response to "why would you catch covid to prevent getting covid"? let's be realistic here-not many people purposely infect themselves although some have, but it is not a preferred method to obtain immunity. as most of us well know, people do randomly get sick from normal day to day interactions out in the public. they develop a natural immunity with varying degrees oif efficacy depending on many things including the health and genetics of the person infected.
i understand the vaccine can promote a more specific, controlled response sans the getting sick part, but once again, only to specific aspects of the viral particle introduced. using the covid virus for example, as i have mentioned, the RNA to develop the spike proteins is used. therefore, our bodies only recognize the spike proteins leaving the other parts of the virus to have it's way. if the mode of delivery of covid vax were to the nose and/or throat, i might sway my opinion from an efficacy standpoint somewhat. i still struggle with the narrow scope of the vaccine compared to our own body's elicited response to the whole particle
the article you reference is very good, but with all due respect forget( as i know you know your chit probably better than most here) it doesn't prove why the covid vaccine specifically contributes to a more robust, longer lasting immunity than the one that we develop ourselves. it does a nice job using the hpv as an example, but i believe the covid virus is a little bit different in what it presents to our bodies as i mentioned in my previous post
so i present my reference to support why/how i believe an immune response developed post covid infection is a little better. some will cite that the reason this is touted is because of the "anti vaxers". i am not an anti vaxer as i am vaccinated myself. i however respect the sentiment of others who for whatever reason, do not want the vaccine. if people would take care of themselves(vax, mask, shield, quarantine, observe all sanitary precautions, etc...), they should have little to worry about
https://www.theburningplatform.com/2021/10/21/81-research-studies-confirm-natural-immunity-to-covid-equal-or-superior-to-vaccine-immunity/
-
You cannot make this stuff up. We are living in The Onion.
Doctors meet in Ocala to discuss COVID-19 immunity, alternative treatments, ivermectin
An alternative message of COVID-19 vaccinations and treatments to that of government agencies came through loud and clear at a Saturday summit at which doctors who dispute the data, mandates and other actions were greeted with standing ovations.
The Florida Summit on COVID was held at the World Equestrian Center in Ocala and included doctors from throughout the U.S. who discussed the vaccines, natural immunity in those who previously had the virus, vaccine mandates and related topics.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/state/2021/11/06/doctors-meet-ocala-discuss-alternative-covid-19-choices/6271623001/
-
You cannot make this stuff up. We are living in The Onion.
Doctors meet in Ocala to discuss COVID-19 immunity, alternative treatments, ivermectin
An alternative message of COVID-19 vaccinations and treatments to that of government agencies came through loud and clear at a Saturday summit at which doctors who dispute the data, mandates and other actions were greeted with standing ovations.
The Florida Summit on COVID was held at the World Equestrian Center in Ocala and included doctors from throughout the U.S. who discussed the vaccines, natural immunity in those who previously had the virus, vaccine mandates and related topics.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/state/2021/11/06/doctors-meet-ocala-discuss-alternative-covid-19-choices/6271623001/
Aside from the obvious humor of choosing an equestrian facility to host this, you just know it’s a world class event when it’s held in Ocala FL.
-
in response to "why would you catch covid to prevent getting covid"? let's be realistic here-not many people purposely infect themselves although some have, but it is not a preferred method to obtain immunity. as most of us well know, people do randomly get sick from normal day to day interactions out in the public. they develop a natural immunity with varying degrees oif efficacy depending on many things including the health and genetics of the person infected.
i understand the vaccine can promote a more specific, controlled response sans the getting sick part, but once again, only to specific aspects of the viral particle introduced. using the covid virus for example, as i have mentioned, the RNA to develop the spike proteins is used. therefore, our bodies only recognize the spike proteins leaving the other parts of the virus to have it's way. if the mode of delivery of covid vax were to the nose and/or throat, i might sway my opinion from an efficacy standpoint somewhat. i still struggle with the narrow scope of the vaccine compared to our own body's elicited response to the whole particle
the article you reference is very good, but with all due respect forget( as i know you know your chit probably better than most here) it doesn't prove why the covid vaccine specifically contributes to a more robust, longer lasting immunity than the one that we develop ourselves. it does a nice job using the hpv as an example, but i believe the covid virus is a little bit different in what it presents to our bodies as i mentioned in my previous post
so i present my reference to support why/how i believe an immune response developed post covid infection is a little better. some will cite that the reason this is touted is because of the "anti vaxers". i am not an anti vaxer as i am vaccinated myself. i however respect the sentiment of others who for whatever reason, do not want the vaccine. if people would take care of themselves(vax, mask, shield, quarantine, observe all sanitary precautions, etc...), they should have little to worry about
https://www.theburningplatform.com/2021/10/21/81-research-studies-confirm-natural-immunity-to-covid-equal-or-superior-to-vaccine-immunity/
Thanks for the link. Although I haven't read all 81 studies in that link, the main ones I've seen saying natural is better than the vaccine have significant flaws, largely because it is impossible to do a good well controlled study on this topic. In my opinion, from what I've seen (they don't publish all their details), the CDC report is the closest to a well controlled study I've seen.
The main issues of the studies are intrinsic biases based on different populations behavior, and likelihood of seeking testing after exhibiting symptoms. All the data in most of these studies is retrospective, looking at patient records after the fact.
Still, most of my current assessment on efficacy of vaccine or infection stems from the 18-years of study on SARS vaccines.
You make a good point regarding potential differences due to full virus vs. a fragment. If these vaccines were the first attempt at immunization, I'd be more in line with you. But they've done 18-years of research on full-virus inoculation, and different genes, or gene fragments, some in combination. The final one we are using shows the most robust immune response. Almost all other combinations demonstrated Th2 immunopathologies following a subsequent infections. These are bad. Faulty Th2 type responses are what lead to severe and potentially fatal COVID cases.
Further, many of these other genes are blind to neutralizing antibodies. So the vaccines are proven to be optimized to generate the most robust Th1 and neutralizing antibody response, which would be superior to natural infection.
Where I'd be willing to meet you in the middle, is that this doesn't yet necessarily mean that the vaccines as constructed would be superior to a natural infection. What has been currently optimized is that the immune response is similar or greater to the average natural infection. We do not have a ton of data on different dosing regimes. This is why we might see boosters.
What I think is pretty definitive, is that even with the 2-dose regime, the vaccines at least provide an equal (likely better) immunoprotection than natural illness, and as we optimize the dosing, it will only get better.
If you are interested in the topic, I encourage you to read up on some the old literature on development of different SARS vaccines.
I'm not saying this is a good link (the author is biased to some of the research saying the N-protein is a good candidate; they ignore the data showing it causes a Th2 type T-cell response), but it does have a lot of information, and like most science papers needs to be weighed against a lot of other papers to determine where the authors personal biases lie. Maybe, as we modify things further we can find a way to get N-protein fragments to only follow a Th1 response, and then further optimize an already great vaccine.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7177048/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7177048/)
-
One other quick comment for related to other possible gene targets. The Th1 vs. Th2 type responses is really important for disease severity.
Most severe COVID cases are really two phases, first phase of primary infection, and in severe cases a second immune-system driven event. The second phase is what can be fatal/severe.
What differentiates the two phases is intimately linked to the immune response and ultimately vaccine design. In the primary phase of infection you have initial infection of cells and rapid replication. During this phase, the surface of the viral capsid is the only thing exposed to the immune system. Blocking initial infection is achieved through neutralizing antibodies. These are primarily against the spike protein. The N-protein is not exposed and cannot generate neutralizing antibodies. So it is pointless in this phase.
In a second phase, the immune system is now destroying some of the virus. This leads to immune system exposure to other genes/protein elements, such as the N-protein. This "clearing virus" stage is heavily dependent on T-cell responses for SARS-like viruses, these can be type 1 (Th1) or type 2 (Th2). For respiratory viruses we know we need/want Th1, and Th2 leads to lung pathologies that often lead to hospitalization and death. In older individuals, or in those with certain pre-existing conditions, for some reason a Th2 type response can be more common. And it can happen at random to anyone of any age.
We do not want these Th2 responses in a respiratory disease, or vaccine. We can't really control which response happens in clearing a natural infection, but we can control it with vaccines.
-
Natural vs vaccine immunity is a stupid discussion and only seeks to distract
-
Natural vs vaccine immunity is a stupid discussion and only seeks to distract
I like it largely from a scientific perspective on the actual complexities of developing and optimizing a vaccine. Pretty cool stuff.
The only other place I can see the discussion having meaning is maybe to validate a general rule to allow those with prior infections to wait 3-months before getting a mandated vaccine.
Separate from that, data is pretty clear go get vaccinated.
-
I like it largely from a scientific perspective on the actual complexities of developing and optimizing a vaccine. Pretty cool stuff.
The only other place I can see the discussion having meaning is maybe to validate a general rule to allow those with prior infections to wait 3-months before getting a mandated vaccine.
Separate from that, data is pretty clear go get vaccinated.
All of what you said is correct. But that's not why anti vax want to discuss the topic
-
I like it largely from a scientific perspective on the actual complexities of developing and optimizing a vaccine. Pretty cool stuff.
The only other place I can see the discussion having meaning is maybe to validate a general rule to allow those with prior infections to wait 3-months before getting a mandated vaccine.
Separate from that, data is pretty clear go get vaccinated.
all good stuff forget-thank you! as for distractions(jesmu) that sounds pretty dictatorial to me-just do what we say attitude opens it up for more "push-back"
although it may have been touched on before, this should also be a great opportunity to stress a more healthy lifestyle. many of the commodities are weight, diabetes, lung issues. today's society has been so careful not to offend, especially the weight thing, but sometimes difficult conversations need to be held. if it helps save lives, it should be discussed just as the getting the vaccine conversations have been. we cannot groom society to ignore the aforementioned uncomfortable topics setting up a potential false expectations. there should be more emphasis placed on overall health, diets, exercise, etc as this virus thing plays out, we need to rebuild the public's trust which i believe should include going after the root causes and some real action otherwise, we will continue to be vulnerable to more of the same.
thank you for the ncbi link -i do find this "stupid" stuff fascinating. i understand it can sound mundane, but sorry, this is how chit works
-
Here's da bullchit hypocrisy in Vegas. Masks are required indoors, 'cept wen "actively" eatin' or smokin' in da casino, hey?
-
Here's da bullchit hypocrisy in Vegas. Masks are required indoors, 'cept wen "actively" eatin' or smokin' in da casino, hey?
Its not hypocrisy, its just ineffective policy. Ive mentioned before, in Vegas, the minute you step into a restaurant, bar, or club, you can remove your mask. Not just actively drinking or eating. Not much in the way of capacity restrictions either.
-
Here's da bullchit hypocrisy in Vegas. Masks are required indoors, 'cept wen "actively" eatin' or smokin' in da casino, hey?
Covid hovers around standing height only. Can't get it if you are sitting. Science.
-
Here's da bullchit hypocrisy in Vegas. Masks are required indoors, 'cept wen "actively" eatin' or smokin' in da casino, hey?
Total hypocrisy. The Strip casinos do have the best air quality in the world though. Great filtration and always pumping fresh oxygen.
-
Covid hovers around standing height only. Can't get it if you are sitting. Science.
Smart ones stay sitting on pervert's row, aina?
-
Total hypocrisy. The Strip casinos do have the best air quality in the world though. Great filtration and always pumping fresh oxygen.
Sure, but anyone who has still managed to get a face full of smoke from someone at their table, even with the mini fans going, knows it has its limitations.
-
Sure, but anyone who has still managed to get a face full of smoke from someone at their table, even with the mini fans going, knows it has its limitations.
Agree.
-
Least surprising poll results ever.
New poll shows Americans who trust conservative media outlets more likely to believe COVID-19 misinformation
ttps://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-poll-shows-americans-who-trust-conservative-media-outlets-more-likely-to-believe-covid-19-misinformation/ar-AAQvqmK
"In a survey released Monday by the Kaiser Family Foundation, respondents were asked about eight different misconceptions about the pandemic, ranging from “The government is exaggerating the number of COVID-19 deaths” to “The COVID-19 vaccines can change your DNA.” The survey found that 78 percent of Americans either believe or aren’t sure about at least one of the statements. However, the numbers varied greatly depending on party affiliation, vaccination status and source of news.
Some 64 percent of unvaccinated respondents believed or were unsure about four or more of the false statements, compared with 19 percent of the vaccinated. Only 6 percent of Republicans surveyed believed or were unsure of none of the statements, versus 22 percent of independents and 38 percent of Democrats.
Some of the largest discrepancies came from where Americans got their news. Those who received their information from the right-wing outlets Newsmax, One America News Network and Fox News were far more likely to believe or be unsure about the false statements than those who received their news from local TV news, NPR, MSNBC, network news or CNN. Only 12 percent of those who considered Fox News a trusted news source believed none of the false statements, versus 40 percent of those who trusted CNN, 38 percent who trusted network news and 32 percent who trusted local news."
-
Ahhhh, now we see why Scoop's dentists are anti-booster: they are already completely protected! Thanks Tuckems!
Tucker Carlson, Fox News Doctor Discuss Viagra as Possible Treatment for COVID
https://www.newsweek.com/tucker-carlson-fox-news-doctor-discuss-viagra-possible-treatment-covid-1667206
"Well, amazingly there appear to be growing connections between Viagra and treatment for the coronavirus," Carlson said in a segment of his Fox News show on Friday. He cited the story of the nurse in the U.K. and brought on Siegel, who is a professor of medicine at the New York University Langone Medical Center, to discuss the treatment.
"Who thought Viagra would save us from the pandemic?" Carlson asked.
-
Least surprising poll results ever.
New poll shows Americans who trust conservative media outlets more likely to believe COVID-19 misinformation
ttps://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-poll-shows-americans-who-trust-conservative-media-outlets-more-likely-to-believe-covid-19-misinformation/ar-AAQvqmK
"In a survey released Monday by the Kaiser Family Foundation, respondents were asked about eight different misconceptions about the pandemic, ranging from “The government is exaggerating the number of COVID-19 deaths” to “The COVID-19 vaccines can change your DNA.” The survey found that 78 percent of Americans either believe or aren’t sure about at least one of the statements. However, the numbers varied greatly depending on party affiliation, vaccination status and source of news.
Some 64 percent of unvaccinated respondents believed or were unsure about four or more of the false statements, compared with 19 percent of the vaccinated. Only 6 percent of Republicans surveyed believed or were unsure of none of the statements, versus 22 percent of independents and 38 percent of Democrats.
Some of the largest discrepancies came from where Americans got their news. Those who received their information from the right-wing outlets Newsmax, One America News Network and Fox News were far more likely to believe or be unsure about the false statements than those who received their news from local TV news, NPR, MSNBC, network news or CNN. Only 12 percent of those who considered Fox News a trusted news source believed none of the false statements, versus 40 percent of those who trusted CNN, 38 percent who trusted network news and 32 percent who trusted local news."
lmao
https://twitter.com/i/status/1439276910853373955
-
lmao
https://twitter.com/i/status/1439276910853373955
But hospitals are filling up though. So what’s your point?
-
But hospitals are filling up though. So what’s your point?
Indeed, pay no attention to actual numbers! Someone said blue states are taking this way too seriously!
Let's take a look at what those silly, hysterical blue-staters are doing:
(https://images2.imgbox.com/ae/d3/nGdoizF0_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/nGdoizF0)
Oh.
Well, no big deal, those are just numbers, and they certainly can't hold up against one guy's opinion. He travels a lot!
-
Well the point isn’t one guy’s opinion, it’s the survey numbers from the NYT.
And it’s not omicron or COVID attacking the vaccinated that is filling up hospitals.
Both can be true. People continuing to be unvaccinated are idiots and are filling up hospitals.
But also, the realities and true risk to the vaccinated and boosted is being misconstrued and blurred in the name of fear porn or just blended statistics.
We’ve established that plenty of people here have no issue with excess caution bordering on irrational panic because “it can’t hurt” but I have always thought the “we’re all doomed”
morbid reporting of COVID developments, regardless of the situation isn’t helping. It’s not scaring people into being vaccinated and people who have done the right things living in fear and paranoia about infection isn’t truly saving lives
-
It goes far beyond vaccines. The people agreeing with the tweet are the same ones also against masking, social distancing, or any sort of precaution at all, resulting in highly a disproportionate number of deaths. It's the sports equivalent of getting absolutely drubbed on the playing field while declaring that your opponent's gameplan is terrible.
But to those folks: Please proceed.
-
Like this from this morning?
(http://)
-
Evidently, there is a new treatment going around the anti vaxxers these days and it's golden. :o
-
Evidently, there is a new treatment going around the anti vaxxers these days and it's golden. :o
Saw that. My first thought was that the guy was trolling...but nope, they really are this insane.
At least it is less dangerous than injecting bleach as one notable healthcare expert suggested doing.
-
Saw that. My first thought was that the guy was trolling...but nope, they really are this insane.
At least it is less dangerous than injecting bleach as one notable healthcare expert suggested doing.
9 out of 10 dentists recommend drinking your own urine to prevent cavities
-
I saw that. My first thought: 'urine sane. '
-
Dr. Moises Alou?
-
Saw that. My first thought was that the guy was trolling...but nope, they really are this insane.
At least it is less dangerous than injecting bleach as one notable healthcare expert suggested doing.
That same notable healthcare expert famously enjoys the occasional golden shower.
-
9 out of 10 dentists recommend drinking your own urine to prevent cavities
I understand that they recommend drinking it right before visiting the dentist.
-
Saw that. My first thought was that the guy was trolling...but nope, they really are this insane.
At least it is less dangerous than injecting bleach as one notable healthcare expert suggested doing.
i guess when you have the attention span and the ice cream brain freeze of the putz you voted for, this is what you still retain from that presser.
-
Dr. Moises Alou?
That’s “Moist Hands” Alou, a’ina?
-
i guess when you have the attention span and the ice cream brain freeze of the putz you voted for, this is what you still retain from that presser.
6 of 10
-
i guess when you have the attention span and the ice cream brain freeze of the putz you voted for, this is what you still retain from that presser.
Do tell us, what did YOU get out of a guy telling you to drink your own urine?
-
Do tell us, what did YOU get out of a guy telling you to drink your own urine?
Bad breath.
-
Do tell us, what did YOU get out of a guy telling you to drink your own urine?
It works for Bear Grilz.
-
Go for it.
-
Do tell us, what did YOU get out of a guy telling you to drink your own urine?
no idea what you are talking about...you gotta do something about those voices you hear in your head
-
no idea what you are talking about...you gotta do something about those voices you hear in your head
We are aware
-
Ah yes, da Scoop covid intelligencia have spoken. Their opinions are like ass holes. Everybody's got one, aina?
-
Ah yes, da Scoop covid intelligencia have spoken. Their opinions are like ass holes. Everybody's got one, aina?
Enjoy your morning drink!
-
Ah yes, da Scoop covid intelligencia have spoken. Their opinions are like ass holes. Everybody's got one, aina?
How much intelligence is required to know that drinking your own urine does not protect you from, nor cure, COVID?
But as a "reely smart healthkare prophessional" you know better than the intelligencia. Drink up!
-
Gargle and rinse, too.
-
Add Nyquil to the ever-growing list that right wing whackjobs (sorry, redundant) are promoting in lieu of the vaccine.
Please proceed, pretty boys.
NyQuil isn’t a cure-all for omicron variant
https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2022/01/11/nyquil-isnt-a-cure-all-for-omicron-variant/
"According to a meme of actor Will Smith, the omicron variant of COVID-19 is easy to treat with common cold medicine.
Several Facebook users, including conservative politician Kimberly Klacik, shared a two-part image listing the “top five” omicron symptoms, which it says are runny nose, headache, fatigue, sneezing and sore throat. At the bottom of the picture is an image of Smith, pointing to a bottle of NyQuil, which lists those very symptoms.
“Will Smith has the prescription,” Klacik wrote.
“So… NyQuil was always the cure?” a commenter wrote on a similar post. “Better than the (vaccine emoji).”
-
IF.... you are vaccinated
IF... you are fortunate to get a case that is mild thanks to your vaccinations
IT IS POSSIBLE... your symptoms can be managed with dayqyil/nyquil.
All bets are off if unvaccinated.
-
https://twitter.com/ryanegraney/status/1480634298520776708?s=21
-
Reminds me of the old story by Hugh Hewitt:
Hugh:
I know what you’re thinking: “Why should I try a crap sandwich?” I might have felt the same way a few days ago, but now I’m a believer.
I was chatting with an administration insider over the weekend. During a sidebar in the conversation, it was intimated to me that President Bush’s favorite late-night snack was a “crap sandwich” with tartar sauce on the side. That encouraged me to give it a shot with an open mind. I know the president is intuitive yet discriminating in his choices, and isn’t afraid to go against the conventional wisdom. He also needs a lot of energy to get up early and fight the GWOT each day.
So I tried it. The verdict? Earthy, no-nonsense flavor. The tangy contrast of the tartar sauce is initially off-putting, but like Bush, I’m in this game for the long term. I’ll give it some time to grow on me. It’s easily a B+ snack.
UPDATE: My insider friend just called me again; apparently I misheard his end of the conversation, it was a fish sandwich. Well, that shouldn’t surprise me. In addition to introducing bold new ideas, Bush has always shown an appreciation for the traditional eating values that made this country great in the first place.
-
you guys can pee all over yourselves all you want, but many of the therapies previously suggested over the years that were poo-poo'd(no pun intended, although some of you may have tried this as well) are going to be re-emerging as effective-(surprise surprise). the mere suggestion of nyquil/dayquil as a remedy 6mos to a year ago would have been enough to get you banned from twitter. but it's not going to end there.
inward looking people, people who have learned how to fix things with the foundations of knowledge they have accumulated. we need those who have a bit of skepticism about them, those who have long questioned why many of the remedies we've had at our disposal all along haven't been accepted. healthier lifestyles, diets, confronting obesity, diabetes, smoking, copd, etc...especially as the variants have emerged, as we have learned more about the modes of attack, there will be a growing acceptance of "stuff" that we've had all along, the "old wives tales" that are effective against this cold/flu virus.
there are regimines of prescription medications, otc's, that have been pushed aside that many will have a hard time admitting that we should have been using these all along. anyone heard of fluvoxamine? the vaccine has it's place within all of this, but i steadfastly remain of the mindset that we are NOT going to vaccinate our way out of this. yes, the vaccine in many(not all) helped SOME avoid the virus, diminished the symptoms of others, but the real cure is to get people the relief before the S & S get too severe/fatal and the vaccine fails to accomplish this. herd immunity is the most effective, natural way that we, as living human beings can predictable fight this virus. but you have to get there first. we should have been using the vaccines to buy us time in order to open the door to new more effective treatments. we still may have, but the stigma attached to alternative modes is/was an immoral reaction to how the medical and science field has evolved over time
we are going to start to see some regimines, drug combinations, that could very well have saved many lives, but were shot down too quickly. whenever one wonders why...follow the money. who is going to have the balls to call out those who disallowed some very effective remedies we've had all along because we were hammered with vaccinevaccinevaccine?? yes, i am still talking about hydroxychloroquine, zpak, nsaids, ivermectin, fluvoxamine, APAP, nyquil/dayquil, and more to be seen yet. there are many good epidemiologists, physicians, etc quietly working on the side, effectively treating patients(what a novel idea) without all the "fanfare" of the dr fettucines of the world. these docs are doing what they are supposed to do-fulfilling their Hippocratic oath despite what "conventional wisdom" was telling them that hey MUST do. medicine did not evolve from tunnel vision. it was and should be a collaborative process of many helping many, not a few believing they are the ONE$ who have all of the answer$
-
you guys can pee all over yourselves all you want, but many of the therapies previously suggested over the years that were poo-poo'd(no pun intended, although some of you may have tried this as well) are going to be re-emerging as effective-(surprise surprise). the mere suggestion of nyquil/dayquil as a remedy 6mos to a year ago would have been enough to get you banned from twitter. but it's not going to end there.
inward looking people, people who have learned how to fix things with the foundations of knowledge they have accumulated. we need those who have a bit of skepticism about them, those who have long questioned why many of the remedies we've had at our disposal all along haven't been accepted. healthier lifestyles, diets, confronting obesity, diabetes, smoking, copd, etc...especially as the variants have emerged, as we have learned more about the modes of attack, there will be a growing acceptance of "stuff" that we've had all along, the "old wives tales" that are effective against this cold/flu virus.
there are regimines of prescription medications, otc's, that have been pushed aside that many will have a hard time admitting that we should have been using these all along. anyone heard of fluvoxamine? the vaccine has it's place within all of this, but i steadfastly remain of the mindset that we are NOT going to vaccinate our way out of this. yes, the vaccine in many(not all) helped SOME avoid the virus, diminished the symptoms of others, but the real cure is to get people the relief before the S & S get too severe/fatal and the vaccine fails to accomplish this. herd immunity is the most effective, natural way that we, as living human beings can predictable fight this virus. but you have to get there first. we should have been using the vaccines to buy us time in order to open the door to new more effective treatments. we still may have, but the stigma attached to alternative modes is/was an immoral reaction to how the medical and science field has evolved over time
we are going to start to see some regimines, drug combinations, that could very well have saved many lives, but were shot down too quickly. whenever one wonders why...follow the money. who is going to have the balls to call out those who disallowed some very effective remedies we've had all along because we were hammered with vaccinevaccinevaccine?? yes, i am still talking about hydroxychloroquine, zpak, nsaids, ivermectin, fluvoxamine, APAP, nyquil/dayquil, and more to be seen yet. there are many good epidemiologists, physicians, etc quietly working on the side, effectively treating patients(what a novel idea) without all the "fanfare" of the dr fettucines of the world. these docs are doing what they are supposed to do-fulfilling their Hippocratic oath despite what "conventional wisdom" was telling them that hey MUST do. medicine did not evolve from tunnel vision. it was and should be a collaborative process of many helping many, not a few believing they are the ONE$ who have all of the answer$
2 of 10, quit drinking urine
-
"real cure is to get people the relief before the S&S get too severe/fatal and the vaccine fails to accomplish this"
That's all you needed to post to demonstrate how little you know. The vaccine is exceedingly good at reducing severe symptoms, hospitalization and death by every metric we can track across the globe.
"Medical professional"
-
Honestly rocket still thinks people should get sick to avoid getting really sick.
What a moron.