MU Coaching Candidates

[wadesworld]

What I learned today: Nojos would be okay with Wojo had he lost his only two NCAA Tournament games by respectable margins.

[The Sultan]

What I learned today: Nojos would be okay with Wojo had he lost his only two NCAA Tournament games by respectable margins.

I know. Complete revisionist history. To the point where one is basically denying what they actually posted.

[Lennys Tap]

This is the biggest bunch of revisionist history bullsh*t.  The fact is I listed comparables. Not exactables. You don't like it?  I don't give AF.

"This"? LOL. You're either a very bad liar or you're ignorant of both of our histories.

"You don't like it? I don't give AF." What are you, 12?

[Galway Eagle]

"This"? LOL. You're either a very bad liar or you're ignorant of both of our histories.

"You don't like it? I don't give AF." What are you, 12?

You had a post from May after Wojo was hired saying you liked what you have seen from him so far. So at least not from the start. Did you hop off the train earlier than most?

[The Sultan]

You had a post from May after Wojo was hired saying you lied what you have seen from him so far. So at least not from the start. Did you hop off the train earlier than most?

No he's lying.

For as much as Lennys and Chicos used to go back and forth, both of them argue in fine details, shift goal posts and use strawmen constantly.  They actually fight because they are just like one another.  It's cute.

"You don't like it? I don't give AF." What are you, 12?

I'm speaking to your level of cognitive ability.  If you would like, I could limit myself to single syllable words or use pictures instead.

[Lennys Tap]

You had a post from May after Wojo was hired saying you lied what you have seen from him so far. So at least not from the start. Did you hop off the train earlier than most?

Galway

Earlier than most? For sure. But I didn't have as far to jump as I was never an all in projo. There were troubling signs early but there were hopeful moments, too. What finally did it for me was the way he handled Markus. Kid gloves, star treatment, play however you want. We had seen glimpses of it before with Carlino, Ellenson and to a lesser extent Rowsey. One man teams are a lot easier to stop in March than in November. Good coaches watch tape and figure us out. And when we have to go to plan B there isn't one - only more of plan A.

[Lennys Tap]

No he's lying.

Galway knows and has pointed to one of many examples that tell the truth. You're not interested in the truth. You'd rather just make things up and try to trigger me (I'm Chico, lol). For your own well being maybe you need another sabbatical from Scoop.

[The Sultan]

Galway knows and has pointed to one of many examples that tell the truth. You're not interested in the truth. You'd rather just make things up and try to trigger me (I'm Chico, lol). For your own well being maybe you need another sabbatical from Scoop.

Not trying to trigger you.  Calling you out for who you are - someone who engages in bad faith tactics and revisionist history.

The fact is, the end of season collapse by MU was not unprecedented by any meaningful measure.  And while there were plenty of concerns about his coaching no doubt, it was nearly unanimous that he shouldn't be fired.

AND when the Hausers did leave, most people either said he shouldn't be fired or that it was too late to fire him anyway.

So people who say that they should have fired him after the Hausers left, most certainly didn't state that at the time.  They are simply engaging in revisionist history.

[GoldenWarrior11]

I can't recall, how soon did Wojo receive a contract extension after the Hausers announced they were transferring?  I had no belief that Wojo was going to be fired, or that he should have been fired (timing among many reasons), but I seem to recall the school having a very quick announcement of an extension for him after their departures.  From that, the school was very much doubling down on his tenure (and future success). 

The Hauser fiasco, at the time and in retrospect, was a major red flag.  Not fire-able by itself, but definitely something that should have opened a lot of eyes to give question and concern to the long-term sustainability of the program.

[The Sultan]

I can't recall, how soon did Wojo receive a contract extension after the Hausers announced they were transferring?  I had no belief that Wojo was going to be fired, or that he should have been fired (timing among many reasons), but I seem to recall the school having a very quick announcement of an extension for him after their departures.  From that, the school was very much doubling down on his tenure (and future success). 

The Hauser fiasco, at the time and in retrospect, was a major red flag.  Not fire-able by itself, but definitely something that should have opened a lot of eyes to give question and concern to the long-term sustainability of the program.

I agree on your second paragraph.  *In retrospect* it was a major red flag that should have caused more questions to be asked.

However on the contract extension, AE had a good take on it at the time and it makes sense when you read it now.

https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2019/5/7/18536232/marquette-golden-eagles-basketball-head-coach-steve-wojciechowski-contract-extension

"By the time that we passed from April into May, it was clearly beyond a shadow of a doubt that neither the losses in six of the final seven games of the 2018-19 season nor the Hauser brothers lighting their basketball futures on fire in order to get away from Marquette was going to cost Wojciechowski his job. Quite honestly, that's not surprising. I mean, if they had pulled the trigger, I wouldn't have been surprised either, but facts are facts: When a team goes 24-10 and makes the NCAA tournament, it's a poor financial decision to eat three seasons worth of buyout money in order to make the coach go away, no matter what else is happening.

So if Marquette is going to send Wojciechowski out to coach for the 2019-20 season, the fact of the matter is that they had to also give him a contract extension that, from an on-court results perspective, he does not deserve.

Right now, Wojciechowski and his assistants are out on the recruiting paths, working on bringing in high school prospects to start in the fall of 2020. Class of 2020 recruits are eligible to sign national letters of intent this November, so this spring and summer is a crucial time for that recruiting class. Without an extension, Wojciechowski's contract was set to expire at the end of those prospects' sophomore season. In a manner of speaking, in terms of recruiting, Wojciechowski's contract had already expired. Quite honestly, that's a bit of a sticky wicket when it comes to recruiting, and perhaps more importantly, when it comes to dealing with negative recruiting from other teams. "Hey, you don't want to go there, their coach is only signed to be there through your sophomore year, my contract goes through the year after you graduate." That kind of thing.

If Marquette believes that Steve Wojciechowski is the right coach for this program and the future of it as well, then he needed an extension to be able to bring in the recruiting class he needs to continue forward. That's the extension he got: Two more years, enough to tell Class of 2020 prospects that he'll be there when they're done with college. That's it. No more, no less."


I get it.  People don't like to see others rewarded when they haven't done a great job.  But that's college sports in a nutshell.

[connie]

I think AE's take remains valid.  Hausers leaving WAS a huge red flag, the impact of which was mitigated by the way they handled things. (Although I still want to see "the letter," which I think diverted a lot of attention -- and may be a great false flag story). No real good choices were available, and given the facts, mismanagement wasn't enough to reboot the whole program.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I was a very big Nate Oats proponent in the 2019 cycle had Wojo gone the rumored UNLV/VA Tech route after the Hauser debacle. At the same time, I was also skeptical of Porter Moser, since if you look at his track record on the surface, he seemed to be a flash in the pan.

However, I would embrace him with open arms now should the opportunity arise.

The thing I think Wojo suffers from the most is he only had experience in one system prior to MU, both as a player and a coach. On top of that, he had never truly experienced failure as a coach. He seems to be trying to bang a square peg (the Duke superstar system) into a round hole (need to get more from the whole than the sum of the parts at MU).

Again, I loved that Loyola run in 2018, loved how the guys seemed to play with one brain, loved how they cut without the ball, and loved how they defended. But I looked at Moser's track record heading into that and thought it was a fun fluke. Using this year's success as an additional data point, what seems obvious to me is that it has "clicked" for him, and the 2018 run was not a fluke.

I see it referenced often here that it takes a long time for some coaches to figure it out. And I think that's true! But I also think diversity of experience, and diversity of coaching mentors plays a big factor.

Moser has been an assistant at 5 different programs (Creighton, Texas A&M, UWM, Arkansas-Little Rock, and SLU). He has been an assistant under 5 different head coaches (Tony Barone, Wimp Sanderson, Marquette alum Ric Cobb, Sidney Moncrief, and Marquette alum Rick Majerus - more on that later). He has been a head coach at 3 different programs (Arkansas Little-Rock, Illinois State, Loyola).

His first 2 head coaching stops were underwhelming to put it mildly. He spent 3 years on a barely above .500 in conference Arkansas Little-Rock before leaving for Illinois State, where he never finished above .500 in conference once in four years and had a cumulative conference winning percentage of 31%. Gross, right?

To me, the turning point was clearly the next step he took after that. He went to become an assistant under Rick Majerus at SLU, where he was also associate head coach for his last 3 years there, being mentored by a savant like Majerus. I've watched a few games this year and they are a very pleasing team to the eye on top of the success they're having. They play Majerus type basketball, where everyone moves as if with one brain, and the team is significantly more than the sum of its parts. The offense generates excellent looks, and the defense is high quality top to bottom. It's clear that the whole team has buy-in. Those types of squads are my favorite part of following college hoops. After a rough start to his Loyola tenure, he has the program cooking. The past 4 years they have gone 15-3, 12-6, 13-5, and now 8-1 in conference play. He clearly knows how to coach in tournament environments (4-0 in CBI - yes, I know, CBI - and 4-1 in NCAA tourney). His teams don't shrink in big moments, they appear to relish them.

He has clearly learned from past failures and has layered in wrinkles of his diverse coaching experience with a huge hat tip to MU legend Rick Majerus. He has extensive Jesuit experience (Creighton, SLU, Loyola), is a Chicago native, and would be a perfect fit at MU from the standpoint of the admin's focus on quality character, his midwest roots, and most of all the ability to get more out of a team than the talent level on the roster. At age 52 I feel like he'd be here until the day he retired (potentially 15+ years) while stacking up successful seasons along the way.

If Wojo & MU end up parting ways at the end of this season for one reason or another, put me officially in the Porter Moser camp (something I never thought I'd say 2-3 years ago).

[NickelDimer]

I know plenty about you. After every loss, or narrow win, or any other basketball result that you take as a personal affront, you come on here with your hair on fire.

As I said ... do something about it. Or just keep whining here. You be you.

Listen, I know you spend much of your time engaging in spats on here with the emotional control of a teenybopper, but it's time you move on because I'm not interested.

[GoldenWarrior11]

I was a very big Nate Oats proponent in the 2019 cycle had Wojo gone the rumored UNLV/VA Tech route after the Hauser debacle. At the same time, I was also skeptical of Porter Moser, since if you look at his track record on the surface, he seemed to be a flash in the pan.

However, I would embrace him with open arms now should the opportunity arise.

The thing I think Wojo suffers from the most is he only had experience in one system prior to MU, both as a player and a coach. On top of that, he had never truly experienced failure as a coach. He seems to be trying to bang a square peg (the Duke superstar system) into a round hole (need to get more from the whole than the sum of the parts at MU).

Again, I loved that Loyola run in 2018, loved how the guys seemed to play with one brain, loved how they cut without the ball, and loved how they defended. But I looked at Moser's track record heading into that and thought it was a fun fluke. Using this year's success as an additional data point, what seems obvious to me is that it has "clicked" for him, and the 2018 run was not a fluke.

I see it referenced often here that it takes a long time for some coaches to figure it out. And I think that's true! But I also think diversity of experience, and diversity of coaching mentors plays a big factor.

Moser has been an assistant at 5 different programs (Creighton, Texas A&M, UWM, Arkansas-Little Rock, and SLU). He has been an assistant under 5 different head coaches (Tony Barone, Wimp Sanderson, Marquette alum Ric Cobb, Sidney Moncrief, and Marquette alum Rick Majerus - more on that later). He has been a head coach at 3 different programs (Arkansas Little-Rock, Illinois State, Loyola).

His first 2 head coaching stops were underwhelming to put it mildly. He spent 3 years on a barely above .500 in conference Arkansas Little-Rock before leaving for Illinois State, where he never finished above .500 in conference once in four years and had a cumulative conference winning percentage of 31%. Gross, right?

To me, the turning point was clearly the next step he took after that. He went to become an assistant under Rick Majerus at SLU, where he was also associate head coach for his last 3 years there, being mentored by a savant like Majerus. I've watched a few games this year and they are a very pleasing team to the eye on top of the success they're having. They play Majerus type basketball, where everyone moves as if with one brain, and the team is significantly more than the sum of its parts. The offense generates excellent looks, and the defense is high quality top to bottom. It's clear that the whole team has buy-in. Those types of squads are my favorite part of following college hoops. After a rough start to his Loyola tenure, he has the program cooking. The past 4 years they have gone 15-3, 12-6, 13-5, and now 8-1 in conference play. He clearly knows how to coach in tournament environments (4-0 in CBI - yes, I know, CBI - and 4-1 in NCAA tourney). His teams don't shrink in big moments, they appear to relish them.

He has clearly learned from past failures and has layered in wrinkles of his diverse coaching experience with a huge hat tip to MU legend Rick Majerus. He has extensive Jesuit experience (Creighton, SLU, Loyola), is a Chicago native, and would be a perfect fit at MU from the standpoint of the admin's focus on quality character, his midwest roots, and most of all the ability to get more out of a team than the talent level on the roster. At age 52 I feel like he'd be here until the day he retired (potentially 15+ years) while stacking up successful seasons along the way.

If Wojo & MU end up parting ways at the end of this season for one reason or another, put me officially in the Porter Moser camp (something I never thought I'd say 2-3 years ago).

It'll be very difficult for Moser to be pried away from the Chicago area.  Honestly, I feel like a job like Marquette would be one of the few that could realistically get him out.  He is very proud of his Jesuit education.  He absolutely loves to tell Rick stories.  He is from the area here in Chicago.  Moser, IMO, gets an unfair critique from many on this board because of  his "flash in the pan" year at Loyola, and his struggles at ISU.  He has undeniably transformed Loyola into a Wichita State-lite program (consistent contender to win the league each year), and has been a great advocate for the program and university.  He rebuffed interest from St. John's because he didn't want to move. 

In a weird way, and as you alluded to with his coaching experience, Moser is very much like Buzz.  He is quirky, has a diverse coaching program at many different programs and he wins.  If the job became open, I have long theorized he would be one of the top candidates that the school would look at.  Wardle is another opt-mentioned name, but Moser and the Ramblers just swept Bradley this weekend.  Moser's Loyola teams play tough and are very much a team with a winning philosophy and strategy. 

[shoothoops]

I was a very big Nate Oats proponent in the 2019 cycle had Wojo gone the rumored UNLV/VA Tech route after the Hauser debacle. At the same time, I was also skeptical of Porter Moser, since if you look at his track record on the surface, he seemed to be a flash in the pan.

However, I would embrace him with open arms now should the opportunity arise.

The thing I think Wojo suffers from the most is he only had experience in one system prior to MU, both as a player and a coach. On top of that, he had never truly experienced failure as a coach. He seems to be trying to bang a square peg (the Duke superstar system) into a round hole (need to get more from the whole than the sum of the parts at MU).

Again, I loved that Loyola run in 2018, loved how the guys seemed to play with one brain, loved how they cut without the ball, and loved how they defended. But I looked at Moser's track record heading into that and thought it was a fun fluke. Using this year's success as an additional data point, what seems obvious to me is that it has "clicked" for him, and the 2018 run was not a fluke.

I see it referenced often here that it takes a long time for some coaches to figure it out. And I think that's true! But I also think diversity of experience, and diversity of coaching mentors plays a big factor.

Moser has been an assistant at 5 different programs (Creighton, Texas A&M, UWM, Arkansas-Little Rock, and SLU). He has been an assistant under 5 different head coaches (Tony Barone, Wimp Sanderson, Marquette alum Ric Cobb, Sidney Moncrief, and Marquette alum Rick Majerus - more on that later). He has been a head coach at 3 different programs (Arkansas Little-Rock, Illinois State, Loyola).

His first 2 head coaching stops were underwhelming to put it mildly. He spent 3 years on a barely above .500 in conference Arkansas Little-Rock before leaving for Illinois State, where he never finished above .500 in conference once in four years and had a cumulative conference winning percentage of 31%. Gross, right?

To me, the turning point was clearly the next step he took after that. He went to become an assistant under Rick Majerus at SLU, where he was also associate head coach for his last 3 years there, being mentored by a savant like Majerus. I've watched a few games this year and they are a very pleasing team to the eye on top of the success they're having. They play Majerus type basketball, where everyone moves as if with one brain, and the team is significantly more than the sum of its parts. The offense generates excellent looks, and the defense is high quality top to bottom. It's clear that the whole team has buy-in. Those types of squads are my favorite part of following college hoops. After a rough start to his Loyola tenure, he has the program cooking. The past 4 years they have gone 15-3, 12-6, 13-5, and now 8-1 in conference play. He clearly knows how to coach in tournament environments (4-0 in CBI - yes, I know, CBI - and 4-1 in NCAA tourney). His teams don't shrink in big moments, they appear to relish them.

He has clearly learned from past failures and has layered in wrinkles of his diverse coaching experience with a huge hat tip to MU legend Rick Majerus. He has extensive Jesuit experience (Creighton, SLU, Loyola), is a Chicago native, and would be a perfect fit at MU from the standpoint of the admin's focus on quality character, his midwest roots, and most of all the ability to get more out of a team than the talent level on the roster. At age 52 I feel like he'd be here until the day he retired (potentially 15+ years) while stacking up successful seasons along the way.

If Wojo & MU end up parting ways at the end of this season for one reason or another, put me officially in the Porter Moser camp (something I never thought I'd say 2-3 years ago).

I want to be clear that I am not advocating for either Moser or Brian Wardle in this post. What I don't understand are the "some" people here that mention Wardle's name on a list of candidates without mentioning Moser. If they excluded or included both, I would understand.

In the same league overlapping a similar time frame...

Moser is in his 8th season in the MVC at Loyola Chicago. Wardle is in his 6th season in the MVC at Bradley.

Moser, in 7 completed MVC seasons, two more than Wardle, has Two Regular Season MVC League Titles, a 2nd place finish, and a Final Four. (They are currently 8-1 in the MVC this year with a sweep over Bradley)

Wardle in 5 completed MVC seasons has finished worse than Loyola Chicago every year he's been in the league. He has one top four league finish, one season with a winning league record. (Bradley is 3-4 thus far this season in the MVC)

(Wardle has two less MVC seasons than Moser.)

[Silent Verbal]

The last couple posts in this thread have sold me on the idea of Moser as a potential candidate, or at least made me far more open to him.  I was definitely among those "flash in the pan" people, but really, why are we faulting the guy for making a Final Four?  He had a good, experienced team, he coached them up, and he totally delivered.  What was he supposed to do, *not* make the Final Four? 

It's like the thing where people say Wojo is Crean without Wade.  What a ridiculous statement, a complete pile of rubbish.  Crean *did* have Wade, and he recruited a couple other really good players to complement him, and he delivered a program-altering season when the time came.  Is the coach at Arkansas Pine-Bluff Wojo without Markus?

[The Sultan]

It's like the thing where people say Wojo is Crean without Wade.  What a ridiculous statement, a complete pile of rubbish.  Crean *did* have Wade, and he recruited a couple other really good players to complement him, and he delivered a program-altering season when the time came.  Is the coach at Arkansas Pine-Bluff Wojo without Markus?

I have said that previously not to minimize Crean's accomplishments or anything like that.  I say that because had he not recruited Wade, he would have a pretty blah resume like Wojo has.  But of course he deserves credit for recruiting him, landing him and coaching him.

[tower912]

Crean deserves all the credit for Wade.   His other 7 years were pedestrian. Comparing Wojo to Crean without Wade is not a compliment.

[Galway Eagle]

The last couple posts in this thread have sold me on the idea of Moser as a potential candidate, or at least made me far more open to him.  I was definitely among those "flash in the pan" people, but really, why are we faulting the guy for making a Final Four?  He had a good, experienced team, he coached them up, and he totally delivered.  What was he supposed to do, *not* make the Final Four? 

It's like the thing where people say Wojo is Crean without Wade.  What a ridiculous statement, a complete pile of rubbish.  Crean *did* have Wade, and he recruited a couple other really good players to complement him, and he delivered a program-altering season when the time came.  Is the coach at Arkansas Pine-Bluff Wojo without Markus?

I think the Wojo without Wade comp is because in all the years (even 1 of 2 with Wade) he really looked average despite bringing in MU Mount Rushmore guys. I mean Deiner and Novak are considered an all time greats both have two NCAAs and 2 NITs to their names. The "3 amigos" were fantastic players but did Crean do anything in three years with them? Nope. And that's giving Crean a pass for the years prior to Wade.

And you're right Crean absolutely deserves credit for getting Wade but it's not like he knew he was getting one of the greatest players ever (not just at MU).

[tower912]

Crean won one NCAA tourney game without Wade.   

[Dr. Blackheart]

Crean won one NCAA tourney game without Wade.

And that was Kentucky where Buzz game planned versus his old boss Billy G.

[MU82]

Listen, I know you spend much of your time engaging in spats on here with the emotional control of a teenybopper, but it's time you move on because I'm not interested.

Listen, I wasn't even talking to you in this thread. On 1/25/21 at 4:40:59, you were the one who engaged me in a "spat," and your take was that NoJos should have been more emotional.

Just because you are a frustrated fan, you don't need to project your insecurities and emotions onto others.

[tower912]

And it took James, Jerel, Wes, and Lazar as a core for him to do it.

If you go back to scoop from that era, there were complaints about inability to recruit bigs, inability to string together recruiting classes, in game adjustments consisting of exhorting his team to play harder and clapping, inability to attack a zone, having a playbook full of a thousand plays but doing the same thing over and over again.

And me defending him.   

I wasn't blind to Crean's problems, nor am I blind to Wojo's.

[The Sultan]

And that was Kentucky where Buzz game planned versus his old boss Billy G.

And it was his last win at Marquette.

[avid1010]

So the thread is about potential coaching options.  Someone threw out Porter Moser.  Is there anyone that thinks Moser at MU would result in MU doing any worse than Wojo in his 6 years in regards to NCAA appearance, NCAA wins, BEAST finishes, and integrity of the program?  He seems to run a clean program as Wojo does.  I'll take my chances that he can be just as successful, and likely more successful, than Wojo.  I would also argue that after 6 years of Wojo running MU...Porter has the bigger upside. 

I also think we need to entertain the idea that if Wojo has the success we would like to see he likely lands back at Duke in the not so distant future.  Seems crazy to go through these growth spurts with a coach that is likely to leave if successful.  I understand that's the case with all coaches and that Wojo could surprise us and stay...but that's my take.  Now if we take a guy like Wojo and he regularly has us in the NCAA  tourney and top 1/2 of the BEAST and then leaves...well he earned his paycheck while he was here.  We're paying a lot to watch a coach grow (if we even see that) with no assurance of a return on that investment.