MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 02, 2020, 12:25:11 PM
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Is there anyone you see out in the NCAA landscape that would be a great hire for the MU program to jump start it? Please list below and why.
I believe a solid candidate that should be looked at is LaSalle's coach Ashley Howard.
He's been at the program since 2018 and is a former Jay Wright assistant. Since arriving, Howard has jumped LaSalle over 80 spots in the recruiting rankings while exhibiting an excellent defensive profile in only his second year as coach. If you watch LaSalle, you can immediately see how much more disciplined they are than any MU team Wojo has coached. LaSalle's defense evokes hints of Buzz Williams rugged defense. LaSalle displays continuity and gave a Villanova a run for their money early this season. If Ashley Howard continues on this trajectory, he'll have formed a top 25 program that will eventually have a potential sweet 16 run in the tourney. Keep an eye on him to see if the program continues to gain momentum. The coaching fundamentals are all there. The question is if he can recruit and develop - which takes about 3 years to begin to get a decent picture. So far, Howard checks all of the boxes already being a better X's and O's coach than Wojo.
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Shaka.
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Maybe Anthony Grant. He's made mistakes, failed and learned. Seems to be rolling at Dayton.
My reality is there are not a ton of great coaches out there. As much as TC bugged me, he was the right hire in 1999. And the other 2014 candidates haven't lit the world on fire. I guess it goes back to what Al used to say:
"If you have Buzz Williams on your sideline, it's sea shells and balloons, don't mess with happy, even if there are some cracked sidewalks"
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Shaka.
No thanks.
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Maybe Anthony Grant. He's made mistakes, failed and learned. Seems to be rolling at Dayton.
Dayton is his alma mater. He's not leaving there for Marquette.
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Is there anyone you see out in the NCAA landscape that would be a great hire for the MU program to jump start it? Please list below and why.
I believe a solid candidate that should be looked at is LaSalle's coach Ashley Howard.
He's been at the program since 2018 and is a former Jay Wright assistant. Since arriving, Howard has jumped LaSalle over 80 spots in the recruiting rankings while exhibiting an excellent defensive profile in only his second year as coach. If you watch LaSalle, you can immediately see how much more disciplined they are than any MU team Wojo has coached. LaSalle's defense evokes hints of Buzz Williams rugged defense. LaSalle displays continuity and gave a Villanova a run for their money early this season. If Ashley Howard continues on this trajectory, he'll have formed a top 25 program that will eventually have a potential sweet 16 run in the tourney. Keep an eye on him to see if the program continues to gain momentum. The coaching fundamentals are all there. The question is if he can recruit and develop - which takes about 3 years to begin to get a decent picture. So far, Howard checks all of the boxes already being a better X's and O's coach than Wojo.
Seriously?
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Dayton is his alma mater. He's not leaving there for Marquette.
Chris Mack and Carolyn Krieger each think there's a chance.
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Give me Wojo and the 2020 recruiting class over anything suggested here.
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ben mccollum-northeast missouri state
he's been killing it for the past 8 years down there 241-75 overall and goes to the show to sweet 16 and beyond for the past 6 years, winning it all 2 out of the past 3 years. he wins!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_McCollum
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Hologram Al.
Otherwise, I'm fine with Wojo and his incoming class.
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ben mccollum-northeast missouri state
he's been killing it for the past 8 years down there 241-75 overall and goes to the show to sweet 16 and beyond for the past 6 years, winning it all 2 out of the past 3 years. he wins!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_McCollum
Northwest Missouri.
And no, you don't hire a D2 coach to a P6 school. Ask Missouri how that went with Kim Anderson. Or ask people at UWGB how that's going with Linc Darner.
Really if you are going to look at an up and comer, look at Wardle.
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Chris Mack and Carolyn Krieger each think there's a chance.
Both upgraded their positions much greater than Grant would be doing coming here.
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Coach K.
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Maybe Anthony Grant. He's made mistakes, failed and learned. Seems to be rolling at Dayton.
My reality is there are not a ton of great coaches out there. As much as TC bugged me, he was the right hire in 1999. And the other 2014 candidates haven't lit the world on fire. I guess it goes back to what Al used to say:
"If you have Buzz Williams on your sideline, it's sea shells and balloons, don't mess with happy, even if there are some cracked sidewalks"
I totally agree which is why I suggested Ashley Howard as a possibility. I think there's a good chance he might become the next great coach as he displays many of the characteristics so far. At this point it's a gamble but if he continues his trajectory then he will be the next hot coaching candidate in 1-2 years.
Regardless, from what I've read, I'm not sure Buzz would have stayed anyways. He's always wanted to head to Texas and had read that in 2010 he was motioning to move out of MU as the expectations were too great for him.
Agree on TC. TC is making Georgia competitive. MU needs to land a perennial top 25 coach. That's what the program is and always will be. I'm sure Brian Wardle will be mentioned but he hasn't impressed me with recruiting much.
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Is there anyone you see out in the NCAA landscape that would be a great hire for the MU program to jump start it? Please list below and why.
I believe a solid candidate that should be looked at is LaSalle's coach Ashley Howard.
He's been at the program since 2018 and is a former Jay Wright assistant. Since arriving, Howard has jumped LaSalle over 80 spots in the recruiting rankings while exhibiting an excellent defensive profile in only his second year as coach. If you watch LaSalle, you can immediately see how much more disciplined they are than any MU team Wojo has coached. LaSalle's defense evokes hints of Buzz Williams rugged defense. LaSalle displays continuity and gave a Villanova a run for their money early this season. If Ashley Howard continues on this trajectory, he'll have formed a top 25 program that will eventually have a potential sweet 16 run in the tourney. Keep an eye on him to see if the program continues to gain momentum. The coaching fundamentals are all there. The question is if he can recruit and develop - which takes about 3 years to begin to get a decent picture. So far, Howard checks all of the boxes already being a better X's and O's coach than Wojo.
Penn 75
LaSalle 59
Imagine losing by 16 to an Ivy League school.
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If/when the job opens, gimme someone who has been in the big chair before.
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Penn 75
LaSalle 59
Imagine losing by 16 to an Ivy League school.
Penn's RPI is 32 though and they're a post season team. Not to mention we're only in season 2 for LaSalle. 16 point loss in NCAA tourney would be Wojo's best showing yet....
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Penn's RPI is 32
RPI???
Try NET. Marquette #37, Penn #91. Who is the tournament team?
You folks are crazy.
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Penn's RPI is 32 though and they're a post season team. Not to mention we're only in season 2 for LaSalle. 16 point loss in NCAA tourney would be Wojo's best showing yet....
RPI...I thought that died. Penn is 107 in Ken Pom and 91 in the NET rankings.
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Give me Wojo and the 2020 recruiting class over anything suggested here.
Do not want to lose the 2020 recruiting class, then you are really starting over much like Wojo came into. Creighton at home is very good, we
will see how they do at home against Villy, there style is almost the same as Creighton, no center. Hard to believe that Theo has not shown any
improvement at all. Hard to believe that Morrow has no offensive game, what do they work on, and Jayce is just uncoordinated. Need some O
from all 5 positions, not getting that.
Finally, is Koby worse offensively then Chartonney, wow, can not believe I said that. But that corner 3 yesterday was a joke. I saw him twice last year in practice and he was really good, now really bad. They do need Mane next year or another guard. I only see 1 starter, Bailey, the
other 4 spots are wide open.
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ben mccollum-northeast missouri state
he's been killing it for the past 8 years down there 241-75 overall and goes to the show to sweet 16 and beyond for the past 6 years, winning it all 2 out of the past 3 years. he wins!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_McCollum
There is no Northeast Missouri St. U. There used to be until 1996, as it is now called Truman. .....As for Northwest Missouri St.....forget hoops, hire their football coach and re-start MU football (teal)
They have appeared in nine D-2 National Title games, winning six, in the past couple of decades.
As mentioned Kim Anderson won a D-2 National Title, and had a lot of success at Central Missouri St. (as well as a Mizzou player and assistant) before a short big struggling stint at Mizzou. Sometimes things work out a little bit, (Bo Ryan) sometimes they don’t when some coach’s switch levels.
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Actually after Creighton I thought it might be time for another contract extension. It is only 6 years and there is still time to learn the finer points of coaching. Lets see what happens at the 10 year mark. But hey, when Wojie replaces coach K we will need to find a replacement then. It will be difficult to fill those shoes but there is no way we will be able to keep such a talent.
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How many threads need to be started to say you think Wojo needs to be replaced? I just got on here a few minutes ago and see no fewer than four threads that could be combined into one. Two of the four are started by MikeDeanesDarkGlasses and one by Mike Deane's Seat Belt. Are these different posters? How many Mike Deane fans could there be?
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Give me Wojo and the 2020 recruiting class over anything suggested here.
What makes you think he can win with one borderline 5 star and 2 four stars when he cant win with an all american, sacar, and a solid supporting cast in bailey, elliott, and Cain
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Mike Deane was a better coach than Wojo. The results speak for themselves.
And in all honesty, there can never be enough anti Wojo threads. The guy needs to go because he's doing immense harm to the program, long term by continually bringing in soft, finesse players. Why he gets support is beyond me. I think it's a microcosm of a larger problem in America where people would rather avoid conflict and stick with the mundane/mediocre.
I've been around since 2014 but am proud to see that Deane's Seat Belt account was created during my hiatus.
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What makes you think he can win with one borderline 5 star and 2 four stars when he cant win with an all american, sacar, and a solid supporting cast in bailey, elliott, and Cain
Did I miss the whole season? Did we lose all our remaining games??
Also, made my account long before these jokers and support the current coach.
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Mike Deane was a better coach than Wojo. The results speak for themselves.
And in all honesty, there can never be enough anti Wojo threads. The guy needs to go because he's doing immense harm to the program, long term by continually bringing in soft, finesse players. Why he gets support is beyond me. I think it's a microcosm of a larger problem in America where people would rather avoid conflict and stick with the mundane/mediocre.
I've been around since 2014 but am proud to see that Deane's Seat Belt account was created during my hiatus.
ok boomer
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What makes you think he can win with one borderline 5 star and 2 four stars when he cant win with an all american, sacar, and a solid supporting cast in bailey, elliott, and Cain
Hanniff Cheatam and Matt Heldt were rated 4 star recruits so I'm not holding my breath here. Nothing is guaranteed when it comes to recruiting rankings. There have been many 4* recruits that have busted.
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Brain Dutcher at San Diego State might be worth some due diligence..
Ritchie McKay at Liberty
Steve Forbess at East Tennessee State
Bob Richey at Furman
Ben Jacobsen at Northern Iowa
All kinds of potential options that could be explored.
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Hanniff Cheatam and Matt Heldt were rated 4 star recruits so I'm not holding my breath here. Nothing is guaranteed when it comes to recruiting rankings. There have been many 4* recruits that have busted.
How many mid-major coaches have busted when getting a P6 job?
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Well, you have to perform your due diligence. If a coach has great X's and O's, has developed players, and has displayed propensity to over-recruit for the program, I think it builds a strong case for consideration. The Xs and O's and player development always translate. The recruiting is the question mark.
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Brain Dutcher at San Diego State might be worth some due diligence..
Ritchie McKay at Liberty
Steve Forbess at East Tennessee State
Bob Richey at Furman
Ben Jacobsen at Northern Iowa
All kinds of potential options that could be explored.
McKay? Lol you're upset at Wojo's winning and want McKay?
Jacobsen and Forbes are interesting names
Don't know enough about Richey
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Zero chance that Steve Forbes would be hired by Marquette.
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Hologram Al.
Otherwise, I'm fine with Wojo and his incoming class.
Sorry, but before MU goes that direction some hard questions must be asked.
Can a hologram ride a motorcycle?
Can a hologram pick up a lead toy soldier and carry it up to the cash register at a rural Wisconsin Antique store?
On the other hand, Hologram Al could increase in size to intimidate the refs every time he wanted to dispute a call. That'd be cool to see.
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How many mid-major coaches have busted when getting a P5 job?
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Not a name listed yet that tops Wojo and the 20 class. Deane couldn't recruit his way out of a trash bag. A more apt comp is to Crean without Wade.
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Did I miss the whole season? Did we lose all our remaining games??
Also, made my account long before these jokers and support the current coach.
Yes, they canceled the season last night....well some people did. :D
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Zero chance that Steve Forbes would be hired by Marquette.
What about Teve Torbes? The ladies love Teve Torbes.
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Zero chance that Steve Forbes would be hired by Marquette.
why do you say this?
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why do you say this?
Because of his connection with Pearl and his NCAA violations, and the way he builds teams through the Juco ranks. He's like a dirtier version of Buzz.
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Brain Dutcher at San Diego State might be worth some due diligence..
Ritchie McKay at Liberty
Steve Forbess at East Tennessee State
Bob Richey at Furman
Ben Jacobsen at Northern Iowa
All kinds of potential options that could be explored.
No need to take this post seriously after Ritchie McKay was suggested.
Oh yeah, here's Ben Jacobson's buyout from UNI. Is MU going to pay that in addition to the $2 million salary he'd command?
Total Compensation: $900,000
Additional Compensation: None
Notes: $400,000 in base salary, $200,000 in media fees, $175,000 in appearance fees, $125,000 in annual longevity payment
Max Bonus: $430,0000
Buyout if Fired Without Cause: 100% of remaining $7.9 million (includes 2019-20 compensation)
Buyout if Coach Terminates Contract: 30% of remaining $7.9 million (includes 2019-20 compensation)
Contract Term Ends: March 31, 2027
Let's be more realistic here, people. Roy Williams, Coach K, the ghost of John Wooden, Tom Izzo, they'll all be beating down the doors to get out of their current situations to come to MU. I mean, look at all of the high profile names we had to turn down the last time around.
No, I'm not a Wojo can do no wrong guy. I like the dude, he represents the university with class and dignity, is a strong member of the MU community and brings in good kids - the polar opposite of Buzz. That said, I think a staff shake-up is in order. I'm not impressed with Johnson. This board's love with him reminds me of the fasciation fans have with the back-up QB. If he were so great he'd be at a Power 5 program or a HC by now. Wojo needs someone who isn't a yes man.
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(https://media2.giphy.com/media/8Bl0Gmc95WCsCOjS6V/giphy.gif)
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Whoever they hire, I’ll be the first to call for him to be fired.
I’ll research top assistants and let you know who the candidates really are
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How long does the new coach from pisskicker st get before the same people on this board wanna fire him too?
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How long does the new coach from pisskicker st get before the same people on this board wanna fire him too?
Here is my list of realistic coaching options that Marquette should consider:
1a. Tony Bennett
1b. Chris Beard
3. Chris Holtmann
4. Brad Stevens
5. Reanimated corpse of Al McGuire
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How long does the new coach from pisskicker st get before the same people on this board wanna fire him too?
All it took was one bad loss to Dayton before Buzz was declared in over his head and should never have been hired.
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Here is my list of realistic coaching options that Marquette should consider:
1a. Tony Bennett
1b. Chris Beard
3. Chris Holtmann
4. Brad Stevens
5. Reanimated corpse of Al McGuire
The fifth option is the only one that's realistic.
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The fifth option is the only one that's realistic.
I was alive in 1977. All those choices are realistic
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I was alive in 1977. All those choices are realistic
It's not 1977 anymore. What makes MU a better program than OSU, UVA, Texas Tech (Beard's dream job) and the Boston Celtics?
Here's a link to buyouts for coaches mentioned, except for Bennett (not made available) and Stevens, and considering his success in the NBA there's a better chance or me coaching at MU than him.
https://watchstadium.com/news/college-basketball-coaching-salary-and-buyout-database-for-2019-20-season-10-24-2019/
Holtmann's buyout:
Buyout if Coach Terminates Contract: 100% of remaining $16.2 million if prior to June 10, 2021 (includes 2019-20 compensation) – $2.7 million prorated annually through the remainder of the agreement (from base salary, media payment, equipment payment and beverage sponsor payment)
Contract Term Ends: June 30, 2025
Beard's buyout:
Buyout if Coach Terminates Contract: If coach accepts a position at another NCAA school in Texas or in the Big 12: $6 million through March 31, 2020, $5 million from April 1, 2020 through March 31, 2021; if coach accepts a position in the NBA or another NCAA school that’s not in Texas or the Big 12: $3 million through March 31, 2020, $2.5 million from April 1, 2020 through March 31, 2021; all liquidated damages for coach reduced by 50% if Kirby Hocutt is no longer Texas Tech’s AD on the date when coach terminates his contract
There's a reason MU has gone the assistant route the last three times.
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It's not 1977 anymore. What makes MU a better program than OSU, UVA, Texas Tech (Beard's dream job) and the Boston Celtics?
Here's a link to buyouts for coaches mentioned, except for Bennett (not made available) and Stevens, and considering his success in the NBA there's a better chance or me coaching at MU than him.
https://watchstadium.com/news/college-basketball-coaching-salary-and-buyout-database-for-2019-20-season-10-24-2019/
Holtmann's buyout:
Buyout if Coach Terminates Contract: 100% of remaining $16.2 million if prior to June 10, 2021 (includes 2019-20 compensation) – $2.7 million prorated annually through the remainder of the agreement (from base salary, media payment, equipment payment and beverage sponsor payment)
Contract Term Ends: June 30, 2025
Beard's buyout:
Buyout if Coach Terminates Contract: If coach accepts a position at another NCAA school in Texas or in the Big 12: $6 million through March 31, 2020, $5 million from April 1, 2020 through March 31, 2021; if coach accepts a position in the NBA or another NCAA school that’s not in Texas or the Big 12: $3 million through March 31, 2020, $2.5 million from April 1, 2020 through March 31, 2021; all liquidated damages for coach reduced by 50% if Kirby Hocutt is no longer Texas Tech’s AD on the date when coach terminates his contract
There's a reason MU has gone the assistant route the last three times.
I should have tealed 😉
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I should have tealed 😉
gotcha. :)
Though there are enough people who think it is still 1977. Just as Gtown fans think it's still 1984 and St. John's fans think it's still 1985 (well, maybe not after this past summer) and DePaul fans think it's...ah who am I kidding, they don't have fans.
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I'm curious to see how Darrin Horn does at Northern Kentucky. He has a good pedigree, just couldn't win big enough at South Carolina after a good stint at Western Kentucky.
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I'm curious to see how Darrin Horn does at Northern Kentucky. He has a good pedigree, just couldn't win big enough at South Carolina after a good stint at Western Kentucky.
"Just couldn't win big enough at South Carolina" is exceptionally generous.
His first team, with Dave Odom's players, went 21-10.
Three years later, his team went 10-21.
Give me a million more years of Wojo if Darrin Horn is considered a viable alternative.
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Tom Crean
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1) Travis Diener - has the coaching bloodlines, natural leader, played in the league, beloved by fan base. Maybe he could use a little experience as assistant. How much experience did Hoiberg have when he was given keys to IA St program.
I just feel like TD will succeed at anything he tries in life, a born winner
2) Drew Diener- huge success at NAIA, including national championship. Now he’s turned around Rockhurst program that had 7 consecutive losing seasons. Assistant at Virginia. Played at SLU. So he’s well familiar with high D-1 level. Plus, he’s a Diener. They’re smart, tough, and they win.
3) Wardle- maybe. He’d be well behind Travis and Drew on my list
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1) Travis Diener - has the coaching bloodlines, natural leader, played in the league, beloved by fan base. Maybe he could use a little experience as assistant. How much experience did Hoiberg have when he was given keys to IA St program.
I just feel like TD will succeed at anything he tries in life, a born winner
2) Drew Diener- huge success at NAIA, including national championship. Now he’s turned around Rockhurst program that had 7 consecutive losing seasons. Assistant at Virginia. Played at SLU. So he’s well familiar with high D-1 level. Plus, he’s a Diener. They’re smart, tough, and they win.
3) Wardle- maybe. He’d be well behind Travis and Drew on my list
lmfao
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For the folks afraid of losing next years recruits, oh well, get over it. Short term pain, long term gain if you get the right guy. We accomplished nothing in Henry’s one year. Who knows how long Garcia sticks around if he’s as good as billed.
Plus, how’s Wojo and staffs history making players better? Yeah, not great
You can’t prevent your program from long term gain on hope and prayer of three 18 year old kids. We all know you never know what you have in recruits until they start playing at this level
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1) Travis Diener - has the coaching bloodlines, natural leader, played in the league, beloved by fan base. Maybe he could use a little experience as assistant. How much experience did Hoiberg have when he was given keys to IA St program.
I just feel like TD will succeed at anything he tries in life, a born winner
2) Drew Diener- huge success at NAIA, including national championship. Now he’s turned around Rockhurst program that had 7 consecutive losing seasons. Assistant at Virginia. Played at SLU. So he’s well familiar with high D-1 level. Plus, he’s a Diener. They’re smart, tough, and they win.
3) Wardle- maybe. He’d be well behind Travis and Drew on my list
Wardle has had more success than the other two at the D1 level. By a long shot. If the first two didn’t have the last name, you wouldn’t be interested in the least.
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lmfao
SLU is not a high major school? I didn’t say they’re an elite program. But they compete with the big boys
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For the folks afraid of losing next years recruits, oh well, get over it. Short term pain, long term gain if you get the right guy. We accomplished nothing in Henry’s one year. Who knows how long Garcia sticks around if he’s as good as billed.
Plus, how’s Wojo and staffs history making players better? Yeah, not great
You can’t prevent your program from long term gain on hope and prayer of three 18 year old kids. We all know you never know what you have in recruits until they start playing at this level
Henry was never going to lead us to much, he isn't even that good. Has struggled mightily in the NBA. It was a marriage of convenience for MU and HE. Nothing more.
You just assume long term gain is automatically going to happen....sorry, life doesn't work that way. Honestly, you would be calling for Jay Wright's head right now, or Coach K and others. I have no idea how Wojo turns out, but he has a great class coming in, we're 37th in the ratings, we have three straight post season trips...he has earned the right to keep on coaching.
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Wardle has had more success than the other two at the D1 level. By a long shot. If the first two didn’t have the last name, you wouldn’t be interested in the least.
And when you take a look at Wardle's recruiting efforts at Bradley, you begin to reach for the bottle of Tums. There's way better options out there. As I said before, look at Ashley Howard from LaSalle. He's only in his 2nd year and already has outpaced Wardle in recruiting efforts. Not to mention, his kids are disciplined defensively and offensively. He's already better than Wojochokeski
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And when you take a look at Wardle's recruiting efforts at Bradley, you begin to reach for the bottle of Tums. There's way better options out there. As I said before, look at Ashley Howard from LaSalle. He's only in his 2nd year and already has outpaced Wardle in recruiting efforts. Not to mention, his kids are disciplined defensively and offensively. He's already better than Wojochokeski
They’re 244th in offensive efficiency
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Henry was never going to lead us to much, he isn't even that good. Has struggled mightily in the NBA. It was a marriage of convenience for MU and HE. Nothing more.
You just assume long term gain is automatically going to happen....sorry, life doesn't work that way. Honestly, you would be calling for Jay Wright's head right now, or Coach K and others. I have no idea how Wojo turns out, but he has a great class coming in, we're 37th in the ratings, we have three straight post season trips...he has earned the right to keep on coaching.
Hence why I followed my long term gain comment with getting the right guy. They’re out there, have to be smart enough to find them. And it’s true, we have no idea if Scholl is capable. But time to find out his chops in his abilities for the schools cash cow program
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Tom Crean. Talented x and o guy
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SLU is not a high major school? I didn’t say they’re an elite program. But they compete with the big boys
No. No it is not. A school in the A10 and has less tournament appearances all time as we do from 02 to now
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Henry was never going to lead us to much, he isn't even that good. Has struggled mightily in the NBA. It was a marriage of convenience for MU and HE. Nothing more.
Henry was an excellent college player and was just getting started. Maybe his game isn’t right for NBA, but teams still think enough of him that he’s hanging around the fringes. I think had he just stuck around MU couple more seasons, he would have been NBA ready. He left college too soon was his big mistake
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They’re 244th in offensive efficiency
And Rising....
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Henry was an excellent college player and was just getting started. Maybe his game isn’t right for NBA, but teams still think enough of him that he’s hanging around the fringes. I think had he just stuck around MU couple more seasons, he would have been NBA ready. He left college too soon was his big mistake
He left when he did because it was the only shot he would have to get drafted so highly. That draft class was one of the worst in the last 25 years. If he plays another year or two years, he gets drafted nowhere close to that high.
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No. No it is not. A school in the A10 and has less tournament appearances all time as we do from 02 to now
Well, tragically they lost a great coach, who thought highly enough of their program to take the job. We’ll never know succceses they may have reached under Rick, but he was off to a very nice start there
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I have great confidence in Bill Scholls ability to find us a very good replacement for Wojo. Scholl has a legitimate circle of contacts in College Athletics and will put those to good use and find us the best available coach whether he comes from college or pro. So when the time comes, I am not worried at all about a solid replacement coming on board. The market for coaches is very specific to what the openings are and who is available at any given time.
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1. Travis Diener (with his cousin, Diener)
2. T.J.Otzelberger (currently in 1st year at UNLV)
3. Wardle
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There is no Northeast Missouri St. U. There used to be until 1996, as it is now called Truman. .....As for Northwest Missouri St.....forget hoops, hire their football coach and re-start MU football (teal)
They have appeared in nine D-2 National Title games, winning six, in the past couple of decades.
Truman... fka... Northeast Missouri State.. freshman PG Sam Nissen was Dawson Garcia's PG at Prior Lake last season
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Henry was an excellent college player and was just getting started. Maybe his game isn’t right for NBA, but teams still think enough of him that he’s hanging around the fringes. I think had he just stuck around MU couple more seasons, he would have been NBA ready. He left college too soon was his big mistake
Hmmmm..... Henry's shot wasn't anything special at MU. He was stifled many times by the defense and wasn't a player who could create his own shot either. In order to be NBA ready he would have had to consistently hit an outside shot. It's kind of interesting that two less physically gifted players such as Steve Novak and Frank Kaminsky turned into much better NBA players. It also shows how skill isn't highly prioritized as potential.
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Well, tragically they lost a great coach, who thought highly enough of their program to take the job. We’ll never know succceses they may have reached under Rick, but he was off to a very nice start there
Yeah still doesn't make it a high major job. You're either a high major based on conference, or you win enough to be considered above your level like Gonzaga
A10- Mid Major, upper echelon but still mid major
10 NCAA appearances All time- not impressive certainly not enough to not be a mid major
End of the day you cannot be someone calling for Wojos head because of lack of success then turn around and call SLU a high major.
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Hmmmm..... Henry's shot wasn't anything special at MU. He was stifled many times by the defense and wasn't a player who could create his own shot either. In order to be NBA ready he would have had to consistently hit an outside shot. It's kind of interesting that two less physically gifted players such as Steve Novak and Frank Kaminsky turned into much better NBA players. It also shows how skill isn't highly prioritized as potential.
You’re comparing him to two 4 year players!!!
Which does circle back however to my original point had he just stayed couple more years..,
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He left when he did because it was the only shot he would have to get drafted so highly. That draft class was one of the worst in the last 25 years. If he plays another year or two years, he gets drafted nowhere close to that high.
He should’ve stayed four years. He would’ve been the number 1 pick!
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You’re comparing him to two 4 year players!!!
Which does circle back however to my original point had he just stayed couple more years..,
Also didn’t help that Henry was/is an absolutely atrocious defender with heavy feet. And yes, his shot was always average at best and it got worse while in Detroit.
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You’re comparing him to two 4 year players!!!
Which does circle back however to my original point had he just stayed couple more years..,
Yeah, what is Wojo's record concerning player development anyways? Mmmmhhhhhmmm
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Yeah still doesn't make it a high major job. You're either a high major based on conference, or you win enough to be considered above your level like Gonzaga
A10- Mid Major, upper echelon but still mid major
10 NCAA appearances All time- not impressive certainly not enough to not be a mid major
End of the day you cannot be someone calling for Wojos head because of lack of success then turn around and call SLU a high major.
Fine, I misstated. They’re better described a mid major, who hits high major now and then (Spoonhour years too).
The nit picking and petty arguments on this board that misses the forest for the trees makes your head spin
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LaSalle loses by 26 at home to Dayton.
It really wasn't that close.
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LaSalle loses by 26 at home to Dayton.
It really wasn't that close.
Patience... let him get recruit and develop his guys first. You've given Wojo ....... 6 years now?
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Yeah, what is Wojo's record concerning player development anyways? Mmmmhhhhhmmm
Markus Howard...development.
Sacar Anim...development
Cain and Elliott we shall see, both were 3 stars
Bailey much better year two than year one
Etc etc
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Patience... let him get recruit and develop his guys first. You've given Wojo ....... 6 years now?
Don't think Wojo ever lost a conference home game by 26.
But regardless, this isn't about Wojo. It's about whether the guy you think should replace him is up to the task.
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Yeah, how's Howard's defense doing? I'd argue he hasn't developed as much as he should have overall. He's always been a shooter. Still, He's a liability on the defensive side of the ball which is why he won't see the NBA.
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Yeah, how's Howard's defense doing? I'd argue he hasn't developed as much as he should have overall. He's always been a shooter. Still, He's a liability on the defensive side of the ball which is why he won't see the NBA.
His defense is better now than it was a few years ago....I believe most of the evidence supports this.
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1. Doc. After the Clips get knocked out of the playoffs with the most talented roster in the NBA (well, at least one of the top 3), offer him the spot.
2. Diener. I like the concept of alumni as coach... but I really think Wardle is a horrible recruiter and not a great coach. Would rather take a punt on Diener. Plus I'd like to see if he can land 1-2 Euro-recruits that would be under the radar for other programs.
3. Wade. He needs to do something other than post beach photos on his instagram.
And given MU's ability to tolerate coaches who are a little bit "different"... in fact my first real phone call would be to Becky Hammon. Tapping into Pop's legacy and NBA style player development would be timely when the 18 year old rule comes back.
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Hiring a former star player with minimal experience seems like a great idea. I mean, look how well it worked for St. John's.
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SLU is not a high major school? I didn’t say they’re an elite program. But they compete with the big boys
No.
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Hiring a former star player with minimal experience seems like a great idea. I mean, look how well it worked for St. John's.
Or Houston with Clyde Drexler
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Dan Fitzgerald has coached more tournament wins than Wojo will ever sniff. #HireDan #CantMissWithFitz
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Markus Howard...development.
Sacar Anim...development
Cain and Elliott we shall see, both were 3 stars
Bailey much better year two than year one
Etc etc
Some say Bailey’s on his way to being an “all timer”.
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Dan Fitzgerald has coached more tournament wins than Wojo will ever sniff. #HireDan #CantMissWithFitz
Dan hasn't coached any of those teams.
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Yeah, how's Howard's defense doing? I'd argue he hasn't developed as much as he should have overall. He's always been a shooter. Still, He's a liability on the defensive side of the ball which is why he won't see the NBA.
His defense has much improved and he is also a little bit of a slasher inside, teardrops, takes a hit with best of them, gotta penetrate more then dish back out to BB, GE or even Jamal
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Bring in DWade
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Bring in DWade
Bring in Bo Ellis, at least he won a Final 4 game
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It's sad I can't tell what is meant to be serious and what is meant to be a joke in this thread.
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It's sad I can't tell what is meant to be serious and what is meant to be a joke in this thread.
This
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Bring in Bo Ellis, at least he won a Final 4 game
Two final four games
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Two final four games
Three actually
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Three actually
Did we win a third final four game I wasn't aware of?
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Did we win a third final four game I wasn't aware of?
74- Beat Kansas, lost to NC State
77- Beat UNCC and Carolina
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Did we win a third final four game I wasn't aware of?
1974 semis. He was a freshman on that team.
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1974 semis. He was a freshman on that team.
Oh I get it you were saying the championship counted. I was saying two to include the 74 game as well but wasn't including the 77 finals. Thanks for clarifying :)
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I'm not there yet. Personally, I think anything less than a 4-seed this year would at least warrant the discussion, but the reality is we probably won't get there unless we miss the NCAA altogether, possibly miss the NIT as well. Nonetheless, I enjoy these thought exercises, so here's my list. Not necessarily in order, but ordered by category:
High-Major Guys
1) Jamie Dixon (TCU, 54): He's at his alma mater, but tried to leave last year. He is a proven Big East coach & hasn't had a job as good as Marquette (Sorry, Pitt). TCU's current rank of 51st is their fourth highest in past 20 years of kenpom, and the only seasons better are the other 3 that Dixon coached. He'll never win a title in Fort Worth but may be the best coach in the country to never go to a Final Four.
2) Thad Matta (Unemployed, 52): You have to get satisfactory answers to the health concerns, but he's an elite coach. Has proven he can win and recruit at a top-5 level. He's certainly still young enough, and if he's healthy enough, there isn't a better name out there. But that he's still unemployed is a serious cause for concern.
3) Steve Pikiell (Rutgers, 52): He built Stony Brook into a league winner in 5 years and has Rutgers at their highest kenpom rank in the past 2 decades in just his 4th season. He knows the East and knows how to win. Rutgers is a really tough job and if you can turn it around there, you can likely turn it around anywhere.
Proven Mid-Majors
4) John Becker (Vermont, 51): He's sustained what Mike Lonergan started, winning over 200 games in 9 years and going to the NCAAs 3 times. He's young enough to stay for 20 years but old enough that high-majors won't be sniffing around if the first 4-5 years go well. His teams have been top-3 in BOTH offensive and defensive efficiency in league play every year but one (finished 4th in defensive efficiency in 2016).
5) Craig Smith (Utah State, 47): In three years at Mayville State (D2) he won National Coach of the Year twice. He took over South Dakota and led them to their four highest kenpom rankings in his first four seasons. He then took over Utah State and led them to their highest kenpom rank since Stew Morrill & an NCAA bid. He's like a mini-Chris Beard but from the Midwest.
Up-And-Comers
6) T.J. Otzelberger (UNLV, 42): He proved he could recruit at Iowa State and proved he could win and develop players at South Dakota State. He's also a Milwaukee native. Not making this call would be like not waiting an extra hour for Tony Bennett. That said, he's really young with a really bright future, so if he won, the "stepping stone" question might never go away.
7) Bob Richey (Furman, 36): Before Richey, Furman had never been ranked top-100 on kenpom, never been ranked, and hadn't been invited to a postseason tournament in over 25 years. They are on their third straight top-100 season, were ranked in the top-25 last years, and earned a NIT bid from the SoCon. He's done amazing work in short order.
8) Brian Wardle (Bradley, 40): He took Green Bay to a Horizon title in 4 years and we said "it's too soon." Then he took Bradley to the NCAA Tournament in 4 years & had a lead on Izzo with less than 7 minutes to play. It's kind of amazing that he's been a head coach for 10 years already. I'm sure he'd be fine, but I'm not sure fine would ever be good enough, and it's harder to fire the alum. I'm not anti-Wardle, but I think it would be a very divisive hire.
We Always Call Assistants...
9) Luke Murray (Louisville, 35): Highly regarded as a recruiter, knows the Big East, and how cool would it be to have Bill in the stands every game? He's seriously a highly regarded assistant in his own right, but personally, I want a head coach.
Only If We're Serious...
10) Becky Hammon (San Antonio Spurs, 42): You only make this call if you are willing to give her the job, but Hammon's knowledge of the game, ability to develop players (considering the Spurs are always at the end of the Draft), and work ethic are all highly regarded. If she is willing to consider the college game, I think she would be a great outside-the-box hire. Someone else mentioned her earlier, I think she is one of the best candidates in the country if she is interested in college.
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I'm not there yet. Personally, I think anything less than a 4-seed this year would at least warrant the discussion, but the reality is we probably won't get there unless we miss the NCAA altogether, possibly miss the NIT as well. Nonetheless, I enjoy these thought exercises, so here's my list. Not necessarily in order, but ordered by category:
High-Major Guys
1) Jamie Dixon (TCU, 54): He's at his alma mater, but tried to leave last year. He is a proven Big East coach & hasn't had a job as good as Marquette (Sorry, Pitt). TCU's current rank of 51st is their fourth highest in past 20 years of kenpom, and the only seasons better are the other 3 that Dixon coached. He'll never win a title in Fort Worth but may be the best coach in the country to never go to a Final Four.
2) Thad Matta (Unemployed, 52): You have to get satisfactory answers to the health concerns, but he's an elite coach. Has proven he can win and recruit at a top-5 level. He's certainly still young enough, and if he's healthy enough, there isn't a better name out there. But that he's still unemployed is a serious cause for concern.
3) Steve Pikiell (Rutgers, 52): He built Stony Brook into a league winner in 5 years and has Rutgers at their highest kenpom rank in the past 2 decades in just his 4th season. He knows the East and knows how to win. Rutgers is a really tough job and if you can turn it around there, you can likely turn it around anywhere.
Proven Mid-Majors
4) John Becker (Vermont, 51): He's sustained what Mike Lonergan started, winning over 200 games in 9 years and going to the NCAAs 3 times. He's young enough to stay for 20 years but old enough that high-majors won't be sniffing around if the first 4-5 years go well. His teams have been top-3 in BOTH offensive and defensive efficiency in league play every year but one (finished 4th in defensive efficiency in 2016).
5) Craig Smith (Utah State, 47): In three years at Mayville State (D2) he won National Coach of the Year twice. He took over South Dakota and led them to their four highest kenpom rankings in his first four seasons. He then took over Utah State and led them to their highest kenpom rank since Stew Morrill & an NCAA bid. He's like a mini-Chris Beard but from the Midwest.
Up-And-Comers
6) T.J. Otzelberger (UNLV, 42): He proved he could recruit at Iowa State and proved he could win and develop players at South Dakota State. He's also a Milwaukee native. Not making this call would be like not waiting an extra hour for Tony Bennett. That said, he's really young with a really bright future, so if he won, the "stepping stone" question might never go away.
7) Bob Richey (Furman, 36): Before Richey, Furman had never been ranked top-100 on kenpom, never been ranked, and hadn't been invited to a postseason tournament in over 25 years. They are on their third straight top-100 season, were ranked in the top-25 last years, and earned a NIT bid from the SoCon. He's done amazing work in short order.
8) Brian Wardle (Bradley, 40): He took Green Bay to a Horizon title in 4 years and we said "it's too soon." Then he took Bradley to the NCAA Tournament in 4 years & had a lead on Izzo with less than 7 minutes to play. It's kind of amazing that he's been a head coach for 10 years already. I'm sure he'd be fine, but I'm not sure fine would ever be good enough, and it's harder to fire the alum. I'm not anti-Wardle, but I think it would be a very divisive hire.
We Always Call Assistants...
9) Luke Murray (Louisville, 35): Highly regarded as a recruiter, knows the Big East, and how cool would it be to have Bill in the stands every game? He's seriously a highly regarded assistant in his own right, but personally, I want a head coach.
Only If We're Serious...
10) Becky Hammon (San Antonio Spurs, 42): You only make this call if you are willing to give her the job, but Hammon's knowledge of the game, ability to develop players (considering the Spurs are always at the end of the Draft), and work ethic are all highly regarded. If she is willing to consider the college game, I think she would be a great outside-the-box hire. Someone else mentioned her earlier, I think she is one of the best candidates in the country if she is interested in college.
This is an excellent and well-thought out list. I think any one of these candidates would take the MU job if the price was right. So much for the “Who would you get to replace Wojo?” BS some here like to spew. There are lots of good coaches out there.
I don’t want another assistant, though. Brew has listed plenty of head coaches MU might be able to poach if they ponied up. We don’t need another guy who requires five plus years and counting of training wheels to figure out how to do the job. The exception would be Hammon, who would be a monumental hire. My only fear with her is that she’d leave for a head NBA gig at the first sign of success.
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I'm not sure "any one" would take it. I doubt Dixon leaves TCU for Marquette, not sure Matta is healthy, etc. but I do like the effort!
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Two final four games
Case closed.
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I'm not sure "any one" would take it. I doubt Dixon leaves TCU for Marquette, not sure Matta is healthy, etc. but I do like the effort!
Matta's health is a huge concern. He's a no-brainer if healthy, but that's an "if" the size of Alaska.
As far as Dixon, I think the UCLA flirtation opened the door. I don't think he finishes his career there as it sounds like there was acrimony over that whole kerfuffle.
Those are probably the two hardest to land, though. I considered other names I'd like from a win perspective, but I don't think MU would ever consider Kelvin Sampson, Chris Jans, or Steve Forbes.
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Some say Bailey’s on his way to being an “all timer”.
Yup, will have to wait and see.
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lmfao
Not a proponent for Drew Diener at this time.
With that said:
You may want to reconsider that answer as SLU and Marquette had similar results at that time playing in the same league. SLU made the NCAA' a similar amount as MU when he was there coming off of Larry Hughes and after. This would be Spoon and Romar era and Deane and Crean era.
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Not a proponent for Drew Diener at this time.
With that said:
You may want to reconsider that answer as SLU and Marquette had similar results at that time playing in the same league. SLU made the NCAA' a similar amount as MU when he was there coming off of Larry Hughes and after. This would be Spoon and Romar era and Deane and Crean era.
I would not consider. I might not consider us a high major at that point, but would not reconsider them being a high major.
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Wojo is the guy.
Those of you who think otherwise have a very warped sense of reality.
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I'm not there yet. Personally, I think anything less than a 4-seed this year would at least warrant the discussion, but the reality is we probably won't get there unless we miss the NCAA altogether, possibly miss the NIT as well. Nonetheless, I enjoy these thought exercises, so here's my list. Not necessarily in order, but ordered by category:
High-Major Guys
1) Jamie Dixon (TCU, 54): He's at his alma mater, but tried to leave last year. He is a proven Big East coach & hasn't had a job as good as Marquette (Sorry, Pitt). TCU's current rank of 51st is their fourth highest in past 20 years of kenpom, and the only seasons better are the other 3 that Dixon coached. He'll never win a title in Fort Worth but may be the best coach in the country to never go to a Final Four.
2) Thad Matta (Unemployed, 52): You have to get satisfactory answers to the health concerns, but he's an elite coach. Has proven he can win and recruit at a top-5 level. He's certainly still young enough, and if he's healthy enough, there isn't a better name out there. But that he's still unemployed is a serious cause for concern.
3) Steve Pikiell (Rutgers, 52): He built Stony Brook into a league winner in 5 years and has Rutgers at their highest kenpom rank in the past 2 decades in just his 4th season. He knows the East and knows how to win. Rutgers is a really tough job and if you can turn it around there, you can likely turn it around anywhere.
Proven Mid-Majors
4) John Becker (Vermont, 51): He's sustained what Mike Lonergan started, winning over 200 games in 9 years and going to the NCAAs 3 times. He's young enough to stay for 20 years but old enough that high-majors won't be sniffing around if the first 4-5 years go well. His teams have been top-3 in BOTH offensive and defensive efficiency in league play every year but one (finished 4th in defensive efficiency in 2016).
5) Craig Smith (Utah State, 47): In three years at Mayville State (D2) he won National Coach of the Year twice. He took over South Dakota and led them to their four highest kenpom rankings in his first four seasons. He then took over Utah State and led them to their highest kenpom rank since Stew Morrill & an NCAA bid. He's like a mini-Chris Beard but from the Midwest.
Up-And-Comers
6) T.J. Otzelberger (UNLV, 42): He proved he could recruit at Iowa State and proved he could win and develop players at South Dakota State. He's also a Milwaukee native. Not making this call would be like not waiting an extra hour for Tony Bennett. That said, he's really young with a really bright future, so if he won, the "stepping stone" question might never go away.
7) Bob Richey (Furman, 36): Before Richey, Furman had never been ranked top-100 on kenpom, never been ranked, and hadn't been invited to a postseason tournament in over 25 years. They are on their third straight top-100 season, were ranked in the top-25 last years, and earned a NIT bid from the SoCon. He's done amazing work in short order.
8) Brian Wardle (Bradley, 40): He took Green Bay to a Horizon title in 4 years and we said "it's too soon." Then he took Bradley to the NCAA Tournament in 4 years & had a lead on Izzo with less than 7 minutes to play. It's kind of amazing that he's been a head coach for 10 years already. I'm sure he'd be fine, but I'm not sure fine would ever be good enough, and it's harder to fire the alum. I'm not anti-Wardle, but I think it would be a very divisive hire.
We Always Call Assistants...
9) Luke Murray (Louisville, 35): Highly regarded as a recruiter, knows the Big East, and how cool would it be to have Bill in the stands every game? He's seriously a highly regarded assistant in his own right, but personally, I want a head coach.
Only If We're Serious...
10) Becky Hammon (San Antonio Spurs, 42): You only make this call if you are willing to give her the job, but Hammon's knowledge of the game, ability to develop players (considering the Spurs are always at the end of the Draft), and work ethic are all highly regarded. If she is willing to consider the college game, I think she would be a great outside-the-box hire. Someone else mentioned her earlier, I think she is one of the best candidates in the country if she is interested in college.
This is a great list. Great post!
I'd be happy with any of these coaches listed. And Hammon would be a really big splash if MU went that way.
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I would not consider. I might not consider us a high major at that point, but would not reconsider them being a high major.
What about this past decade? Both schools made the NCAA's four times. Results not all that extreme in difference this past decade as well.
Before we continue, let's not miss my point here. The point of course is MU is not really in a position then or this past decade to be so dismissive.
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This is a great list. Great post!
I'd be happy with any of these coaches listed. And Hammon would be a really big splash if MU went that way.
How do you know this? Just an opinion. Yes, Hammon would be a big "splash", of course no one knows if any 17-18 year old talented boys basketball players would ever be willing to play for her (maybe yes, maybe no), but that would be a big splash for sure....not the splash a program like MU should be the first to make. If she is the one, Pop should retire and the Spurs should make her head coach on his recommendation. I don't see that happening.
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Completely out of the box, and nothing suggests he'd be interested in Coaching...but...IF he was..Dwade would be a no brainer to me. Imagine how good his recruiting would be. :) Bring in a couple of seasoned veterans that know what they are doing for X's and O's and let's go..
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Completely out of the box, and nothing suggests he'd be interested in Coaching...but...IF he was..Dwade would be a no brainer to me. Imagine how good his recruiting would be. :) Bring in a couple of seasoned veterans that know what they are doing for X's and O's and let's go..
Or Jimmy Butler who can say he’s an NBA player while coaching Marquette. Imagine how good his recruiting would be.
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Completely out of the box, and nothing suggests he'd be interested in Coaching...but...IF he was..Dwade would be a no brainer to me. Imagine how good his recruiting would be. :) Bring in a couple of seasoned veterans that know what they are doing for X's and O's and let's go..
Out of the box is right. What is the fascination with former great players in sports that so often cannot replicate in coaching? Know your history.
Magic Johnson...terrible coach
Wayne Gretzky...terrible coach
Clyde Drexler...terrible coach
Michael Jordan...terrible executive (remember how all the great players were going to flock to play for Michael when he was the head of a NBA team)
Isaiah Thomas...terrible coach
Bart Starr
Bob Cousy
Ted Williams
Pete Rose...average
Kevin McHale
Willis Reed
Wes Unseld
Pat Ewing....jury is out
Chris Mullin....eh
Bo Ellis...struggled mightily as head coach
I could go on and on and on. Sure, there are a few exceptions, but typically these guys were so good on the court or field, they don't relate well to players that aren't as good as they were.
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Don’t think wojo is going anywhere. But a guy I thought was on a potential MU short list trajectory before landing P6 gig this past off season, was Wisconsin native Nate Oats. Perhaps down the road
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How do you know this? Just an opinion. Yes, Hammon would be a big "splash", of course no one knows if any 17-18 year old talented boys basketball players would ever be willing to play for her (maybe yes, maybe no), but that would be a big splash for sure....not the splash a program like MU should be the first to make. If she is the one, Pop should retire and the Spurs should make her head coach on his recommendation. I don't see that happening.
How do I know what? That this is a great list or that a Hammon hire would be a big splash? It's my opinion that the list Brew put together is really good. I also think that a Hammon hire would get tons of media coverage that would make it a "splash" - which you acknowledge in your post. And why shouldn't MU be the program to make such a hire? (And I'm not advocating to hire her, just saying it would get quite noticed if we did).
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Out of the box is right. What is the fascination with former great players in sports that so often cannot replicate in coaching? Know your history.
Magic Johnson...terrible coach
Wayne Gretzky...terrible coach
Clyde Drexler...terrible coach
Michael Jordan...terrible executive (remember how all the great players were going to flock to play for Michael when he was the head of a NBA team)
Isaiah Thomas...terrible coach
Bart Starr
Bob Cousy
Ted Williams
Pete Rose...average
Kevin McHale
Willis Reed
Wes Unseld
Pat Ewing....jury is out
Chris Mullin....eh
Bo Ellis...struggled mightily as head coach
I could go on and on and on. Sure, there are a few exceptions, but typically these guys were so good on the court or field, they don't relate well to players that aren't as good as they were.
I'd be banking on his recruiting being so good(like top 5 classes, who says no to Dwade?), that he could just roll the ball out and tell them to go play..Like I said, the appeal to me is how he would recruit, have the asst do most of the X's and O's stuff. It would work on just the pure talent alone I'd bet on him bringing in.
You forgot Juwan Howard on your list.
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How do you know this? Just an opinion. Yes, Hammon would be a big "splash", of course no one knows if any 17-18 year old talented boys basketball players would ever be willing to play for her (maybe yes, maybe no), but that would be a big splash for sure....not the splash a program like MU should be the first to make. If she is the one, Pop should retire and the Spurs should make her head coach on his recommendation. I don't see that happening.
I don't get your logic at all. I mean, women play for male coaches all time time. Why couldn't she succeed with those roles reversed?
Marquette should certainly not be afraid of making that "splash" if they feel she is the best candidate.
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I'd be banking on his recruiting being so good(like top 5 classes, who says no to Dwade?), that he could just roll the ball out and tell them to go play..Like I said, the appeal to me is how he would recruit, have the asst do most of the X's and O's stuff. It would work on just the pure talent alone I'd bet on him bringing in.
You forgot Juwan Howard on your list.
Juwan Howard is right now running on Bielien's players....will see how he does in a few years.
The top players want to go to coaches that are going to put them in the best position to make the NBA...has Dwade proven he can do that? Thus, risky. He hasn't even been an assistant coach. Just a bad idea.
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Juwan Howard is right now running on Bielien's players....will see how he does in a few years.
The top players want to go to coaches that are going to put them in the best position to make the NBA...has Dwade proven he can do that? Thus, risky. He hasn't even been an assistant coach. Just a bad idea.
Juwan Howard also paid his dues as an assistant for years. Thinking DWade would succeed based on how Juwan Howard is doing is a terrible comparison anyway
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I don't get your logic at all. I mean, women play for male coaches all time time. Why couldn't she succeed with those roles reversed?
Marquette should certainly not be afraid of making that "splash" if they feel she is the best candidate.
It's not a matter of capability at all, but I don't think a high major will be where such a hire takes place. In my opinion, it will be a mid-major.
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It's not a matter of capability at all, but I don't think a high major will be where such a hire takes place. In my opinion, it will be a mid-major.
I don't. I think it will take a high major, or even NBA team showing the courage before it filters down.
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Not only that but why would an NBA assistant go mid major?
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Not only that but why would an NBA assistant go mid major?
Exactly. Hammon interviewed for the Bucks job. She's not taking Fresno State instead. And like I said, you only try to interview her if you're serious. Marquette would be a step down from jobs she's been interviewed for.
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What about this past decade? Both schools made the NCAA's four times. Results not all that extreme in difference this past decade as well.
Before we continue, let's not miss my point here. The point of course is MU is not really in a position then or this past decade to be so dismissive.
It's a slow day at work so I'm going to indulge some data.
I could be wrong here but 10, 11, 12, 14, 17, 19 seems like it adds up to six. And 6>4
Also I could be wrong here but I'd call Rds 64, 16, 16, 8, 64, 64 better than 32, 32, 32, 64.
Finally let's not stop at one decade let's go from 2000, where they've made an astounding 1 additional and last I checked 12 including FF, E8, 2 S16, 2 RD 32, 6 Rd 64 > 3 Rd 32, 2 Rd 64.
Let's also not forget to factor in average Kenpom rating during this last decade either:
10: SLU- 98, MU- 24
11: SLU- 127, MU- 26
12: SLU- 14, MU- 18
13: SLU- 19, MU- 26
14: SLU- 35, MU- 68
15: SLU- 289, MU- 93
16: SLU- 226, MU- 97
17: SLU- 273, MU- 32
18: SLU- 148, MU- 53
19: SLU- 106, MU- 33
I don't want to draw conclusions for you, so you can tell me if those numbers look like a mid major with a few great teams or a high major. But if you think SLU's 2010 team is good then you'd better have loved the Ellenson team as well.
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Not only that but why would an NBA assistant go mid major?
She may not. I believe the first female head coach of a men’s D1 program will be at a mid major, whether that’s is Hammon or not...I don’t know.
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How do you know this? Just an opinion. Yes, Hammon would be a big "splash", of course no one knows if any 17-18 year old talented boys basketball players would ever be willing to play for her (maybe yes, maybe no), but that would be a big splash for sure....not the splash a program like MU should be the first to make. If she is the one, Pop should retire and the Spurs should make her head coach on his recommendation. I don't see that happening.
Some are leaders and some are followers. You’ve proven yourself the latter. So it’s not surprising you’d advocate for the benign comfort of watching others lead (on Hammon or any other issue for that matter). She’s trained under the best coach in basketball and plenty of folks relish, rather than resist, the idea that MU would be the first to “make a splash.” I’d trust the BoT doesn’t think as myopically as you.
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Tom Crean return.
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It's a slow day at work so I'm going to indulge some data.
I could be wrong here but 10, 11, 12, 14, 17, 19 seems like it adds up to six. And 6>4
Also I could be wrong here but I'd call Rds 64, 16, 16, 8, 64, 64 better than 32, 32, 32, 64.
Finally let's not stop at one decade let's go from 2000, where they've made an astounding 1 additional and last I checked 12 including FF, E8, 2 S16, 2 RD 32, 6 Rd 64 > 3 Rd 32, 2 Rd 64.
Let's also not forget to factor in average Kenpom rating during this last decade either:
10: SLU- 98, MU- 24
11: SLU- 127, MU- 26
12: SLU- 14, MU- 18
13: SLU- 19, MU- 26
14: SLU- 35, MU- 68
15: SLU- 289, MU- 93
16: SLU- 226, MU- 97
17: SLU- 273, MU- 32
18: SLU- 148, MU- 53
19: SLU- 106, MU- 33
I don't want to draw conclusions for you, so you can tell me if those numbers look like a mid major with a few great teams or a high major. But if you think SLU's 2010 team is good then you'd better have loved the Ellenson team as well.
I started in 2011. So 5 and 4. KenPom top 35 is what 5 and 3? .....making the point that it isn't quite as extreme as presumed the past decade neither at the other time period as well.
The dismissive attitude regarding the topic seems misplaced to me.
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Some are leaders and some are followers. You’ve proven yourself the latter. So it’s not surprising you’d advocate for the benign comfort of watching others lead (on Hammon or any other issue for that matter). She’s trained under the best coach in basketball and plenty of folks relish, rather than resist, the idea that MU would be the first to “make a splash.” I’d trust the BoT doesn’t think as myopically as you.
It could potentially be a great hire, but why would she pass up the opportunity to likely be the next HC of the Spurs?
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I started in 2011. So 5 and 4. KenPom top 35 is what 5 and 3? .....making the point that it isn't quite as extreme as presumed the past decade neither at the other time period as well.
The dismissive attitude regarding the topic seems misplaced to me.
Right, I get your point. But high major teams don't have Kpom numbers that bad. They're indicative of a team that had a few good runs in a weaker conference (ie Murray st). For reference lowly Depaul in the past decade hasn't fallen below 190.
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Some are leaders and some are followers. You’ve proven yourself the latter. So it’s not surprising you’d advocate for the benign comfort of watching others lead (on Hammon or any other issue for that matter). She’s trained under the best coach in basketball and plenty of folks relish, rather than resist, the idea that MU would be the first to “make a splash.” I’d trust the BoT doesn’t think as myopically as you.
I think through life that has proven incorrect for me. My entire staff sans one is female...19 in all, now. Mostly minority as well. But feel free to take the cheap shot.
To make the best COLLEGE coaching hire they have to be able to recruit, too. That would be my concern with Hammon. Carry on and Happy New Year
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Right, I get your point. But high major teams don't have Kpom numbers that bad. They're indicative of a team that had a few good runs in a weaker conference (ie Murray st). For reference lowly Depaul in the past decade hasn't fallen below 190.
SLU was competitive in every conference with Marquette. During the decade, A-10 was one of the better leagues out there getting many invites at the time. If former MU alum, assistant Rick Majerus didn’t have health problems the numbers would be a bit different. SLU hired Crews because that is who Rick wanted. Rick was a great coach but he never had the Xavier, Butler coaching hand off system in place so to speak. Whitesell left for St. John’s with Lavin. Moser to be a head coach again in the Valley, and Jensen left as well. SLU would have been better off to go their own way after Rick i stead of Crews.. So those weren’t exactly usual circumstances. So comparing that with some 90’s MU KenPom etc...you either make the tourney or you don't ...DePaul would not be good enough to be comparable to SLU dueing the same time periods based on basic make the NCAA's criteria instead of debating 90's 100's KenPom vs 200's over a few year period.....again, the dismissiveness seems very misplaced here.
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Wojo is the guy.
Those of you who think otherwise have a very warped sense of reality.
Teal?
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Thinking D wade could ever be bothered to coach in milwaukee while he is enjoying the fruits of retirement is insane. Hes gonna be a pretty face on TNT before long. Maybe when hes like 55 or something he would have some interest in coaching.
Wardle shows some promise but honestly his level is basically appropriate for the old conference usa type league, essentially back to an insignificant program on the national level with a bunch of die hards in the fan base that hope for a tourney birth every few years.
Diener (nah , see above with less proven record)
Honestly I would welcome back crean with open arms at this point but he is shunned from campus I think.
D wade would be amazing I think on the recruiting end , great personality, all time great player at the pro level , could recruit anybody but he is too bright a star to ever come back to lowly milwaukee for anything other than a final four reunion or a nba hall of fame induction thank you half time special.
The market is very very bleak for coaches at this time. But wojo needs to gojo cuz he has no mojo!
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Thinking D wade could ever be bothered to coach in milwaukee while he is enjoying the fruits of retirement is insane. Hes gonna be a pretty face on TNT before long. Maybe when hes like 55 or something he would have some interest in coaching.
Wardle shows some promise but honestly his level is basically appropriate for the old conference usa type league, essentially back to an insignificant program on the national level with a bunch of die hards in the fan base that hope for a tourney birth every few years.
Diener (nah , see above with less proven record)
Honestly I would welcome back crean with open arms at this point but he is shunned from campus I think.
D wade would be amazing I think on the recruiting end , great personality, all time great player at the pro level , could recruit anybody but he is too bright a star to ever come back to lowly milwaukee for anything other than a final four reunion or a nba hall of fame induction thank you half time special.
The market is very very bleak for coaches at this time. But wojo needs to gojo cuz he has no mojo!
Great rhyming
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SLU has a nice little program.
They last went to a S16 in 1957. Every BE program has been to a Final Four since that time, except Xavier (multiple Elite 8s) and Creighton. SLU is not a high major. They're a mid major who had the foresight to hire a good coach now and then.
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Teal?
I think he means for next year. I think he is right. You have to be strategic when changing coaches. Barring scandal or losing pretty much every remaining game, I think Wojo is the coach next season.
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I think he means for next year. I think he is right. You have to be strategic when changing coaches. Barring scandal or losing pretty much every remaining game, I think Wojo is the coach next season.
I think if Wojo misses the NCAAT this year, his seat is warm, but no way fired. Unless, we have a big scandal, he’s here next year. Next year he’s able to play the youth card after losing Sacar and Markus.
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I think if Wojo misses the NCAAT this year, his seat is warm, but no way fired. Unless, we have a big scandal, he’s here next year. Next year he’s able to play the youth card after losing Sacar and Markus.
If you look around, programs will often wait until years where the "youth card" is a legitimate excuse to make a coaching change. Unless you are a blue blood, you can't fire a guy who just made the NCAA tournament (barring scandal). They will wait until the next year when the team is young and misses the tournament to make the move. It gives the school a legitimate performance issue and barring mass transfers (which is a risk) you provide the new coach with a solid young core rather than starting with a roster that just graduated it is entire starting lineup.
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SLU has a nice little program.
They last went to a S16 in 1957. Every BE program has been to a Final Four since that time, except Xavier (multiple Elite 8s) and Creighton. SLU is not a high major. They're a mid major who had the foresight to hire a good coach now and then.
SLU's results haven't been all that different than Marquette during the time periods discussed in that conversation.
There seems to be a defensive irrational fear of a few when comparing MU to some of these schools during specific periods of time. The other poster mentioned Drew Diener as a coaching candidate and used his experience there as a positive in his suggestion. I said I wasn't an advocate for him to be an MU candidate at this time.
No one is discussing 1957 or the one MU Final Four in the past 43 years
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Wojo's seat temperature is kinda like the krebs cycle or something like that.
With each year of disappointment there is just enough upside that he buys himself another year.
Its early he needs time-----
We made the tourney but got destroyed------ hurray we made it back can only go up from here
We land a huge fish(HE) - see if he would have stayed we would have been elite, its not his fault needs more time
Get blown out by Morant ---- next year is the year all the pieces will come together
Two starters leave for greener pastures --- its the hausers fault we need to give him more time its hard to lose two players unexpectedly
2020(to be determined ---- looking like we will finish behind depaul for the first time in forever ------ but we have a great class coming in we cant pull the emergency chute cord just yet.
and onnnn and onnnnn and onnnn
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To make the best COLLEGE coaching hire they have to be able to recruit, too. That would be my concern with Hammon. Carry on and Happy New Year
That wouldn't worry me terribly. She can pull out references from numerous NBA players (look at Pau Gasol's glowing reference) and as we've seen with Wojo, it's just as much about the right assistants (Stan, Dwyane) as anything.
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SLU's results haven't been all that different than Marquette during the time periods discussed in that conversation.
There seems to be a defensive irrational fear of a few when comparing MU to some of these schools during specific periods of time. The other poster mentioned Drew Diener as a coaching candidate and used his experience there as a positive in his suggestion. I said I wasn't an advocate for him to be an MU candidate at this time.
No one is discussing 1957 or the one MU Final Four in the past 43 years
No one has an irrational fear of SLU. They have an irrational fear of dumb comparisons.
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SLU has a nice little program.
They last went to a S16 in 1957. Every BE program has been to a Final Four since that time, except Xavier (multiple Elite 8s) and Creighton. SLU is not a high major. They're a mid-major who had the foresight to hire a good coach now and then.
There were only 24 teams in the tourney in 1957 and they got a bye to the round of 16 and proceeded to lose the regional third place game. So yeah, they did make the "sweet 16" but did so without having to win a game.
SLU has caught lightning in a bottle a couple of times. The hire of Spoon and a strong local class (like KO's first class) helped them in the mid 90's the machinations they pulled to get Hughes for that one year got them a NCAA tourney win in 1998 but they didn't sustain. Who knows what happens to them if Majerus stays healthy. Instead, they made a few bad coaching hires (Soderberg and Crews) and squandered any momentum they had been building.
Their biggest blunder though was rejecting the MVC invite in 2003. Had they taken it and upheld the agreement they had with Creighton they may be in the NBE. Instead, they burned bridges when they turned down the MVC (their President at the time was pretty much despised in sports circles too which was another factor in being rejected for the NBE) and are now pretty much locked into the A-10.
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SLU was competitive in every conference with Marquette. During the decade, A-10 was one of the better leagues out there getting many invites at the time. If former MU alum, assistant Rick Majerus didn’t have health problems the numbers would be a bit different. SLU hired Crews because that is who Rick wanted. Rick was a great coach but he never had the Xavier, Butler coaching hand off system in place so to speak. Whitesell left for St. John’s with Lavin. Moser to be a head coach again in the Valley, and Jensen left as well. SLU would have been better off to go their own way after Rick i stead of Crews.. So those weren’t exactly usual circumstances. So comparing that with some 90’s MU KenPom etc...you either make the tourney or you don't ...DePaul would not be good enough to be comparable to SLU dueing the same time periods based on basic make the NCAA's criteria instead of debating 90's 100's KenPom vs 200's over a few year period.....again, the dismissiveness seems very misplaced here.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like your argument is stat based metrics be dammed because you either make the tournament or don't, but the fact is high major teams don't fall that low in metrics. It's basically saying 18 or 16 may have well been the 15 season for us or even worse. Even though we weren't bad by the metrics just not good enough (or in 18 not good in the archaic rpi)
Then it seems like you're saying Post season success metrics be dammed because you either make it or you don't doesn't matter how you do when you get there.
It also sounds like you're saying Excuse the bad seasons because they lost Rick. Thus they are a high major?
By that logic I'm just gonna sit back and say MU is as good as Duke because Al retired and told us to give Hank the job, but who knows would've happened if Al stayed. This is a very odd platform to die on when every conceivable metric says otherwise. Whether you choose the last decade or two or even three.
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She may not. I believe the first female head coach of a men’s D1 program will be at a mid major, whether that’s is Hammon or not...I don’t know.
Selected message board commentary on Becky when Spurs first hired Becky.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=368687
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No one has an irrational fear of SLU. They have an irrational fear of dumb comparisons.
Don't be so tough on yourself.
A poster mentions someone's experience and the quick lmao dismissiveness is pretty comical to me when it comes to some of these types of schools.
MU hasn't won an NCAA game in 6 to 7 seasons. MU had a Final Four with Wade, had a good run with Buzz and a Sweet 16 with KO all in the past 25 plus years. That's great, but hopefully it will be even better moving forward.
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I think the jesuits will look at a female coach of a male program as too much of a protestant idea to be comfortable with ;)
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How do you know this? Just an opinion. Yes, Hammon would be a big "splash", of course no one knows if any 17-18 year old talented boys basketball players would ever be willing to play for her (maybe yes, maybe no), but that would be a big splash for sure....not the splash a program like MU should be the first to make. If she is the one, Pop should retire and the Spurs should make her head coach on his recommendation. I don't see that happening.
You don't hire Hammon for the "splash". You hire her because she's the best coach on the list, coming from the world's elite program. Why should MU not be the first to do this?
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You don't hire Hammon for the "splash". You hire her because she's the best coach on the list, coming from the world's elite program. Why should MU not be the first to do this?
If that were the case, many other programs including some better than ours would have hired her. Simply put, not the best candidate for a college program.
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Selected message board commentary on Becky when Spurs first hired Becky.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=368687
What I would expect from a bunch of incels.
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If that were the case, many other programs including some better than ours would have hired her. Simply put, not the best candidate for a college program.
So Marquette should never hire a first time coach because someone didn't hire them first?
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So Marquette should never hire a first time coach because someone didn't hire them first?
Sounds like Rick, KO, Crean and Wojo to me...Cheeks has typed the Bible here in the last 48 hours, often countering himself as he is face down in his keyboard. DirectTV needs to hand out less PTO over the holidays.
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Bump.
Let's start the 2021 wish list. Familiar names include Wardle, TJO, Oates, maybe Stan.
Here's another name. John Jakus from Baylor; winner, Drew's #1 assistant, spent time with Few at Gonzaga, hails from the Midwest. Curious if TAMU has any insight on Jakus?
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Bump.
Let's start the 2021 wish list. Familiar names include Wardle, TJO, Oates, maybe Stan.
Here's another name. John Jakus from Baylor; winner, Drew's #1 assistant, spent time with Few at Gonzaga, hails from the Midwest. Curious if TAMU has any insight on Jakus?
I think everyone loves Stan but we need to stay as far away from the Wojo tree as possible. Fresh start is needed.
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I think everyone loves Stan but we need to stay as far away from the Wojo tree as possible. Fresh start is needed.
Exactly.
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It really wouldn’t be hard to do better than Wojo. He is that awful.
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John Oates?
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I think everyone loves Stan but we need to stay as far away from the Wojo tree as possible. Fresh start is needed.
Why do we love Stan? His currently being 7-6 with an experienced team with three redshirts and led by a 4 year starter? A team that the previous coach had set up for a big season.
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Why do we love Stan? His currently being 7-6 with an experienced team with three redshirts and led by a 4 year starter? A team that the previous coach had set up for a big season.
It was my diplomatic way of saying I wouldn’t touch him with a ten foot pole because of his association with Wojo.
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It was my diplomatic way of saying I wouldn’t touch him with a ten foot pole because of his association with Wojo.
It’s Chico’s agenda....for the umpteenth time to defend his boy.
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Craig Smith, Utah State would be at or towards the top of my list.
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It’s Chico’s agenda....for the umpteenth time to defend his boy.
A. I’m not Chico’s
B. I’m arguing against St Stan
C. Losing to DePaul at home is beyond defensible
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A couple weeks ago after reading this board I found a few Bradley games online and watched them.
Let me be clear first by saying that I was hoping to find something that I could use to say that Wardle is not the man.
What I saw was:
- a team with moderate talent... like DePaul
- a team that filled talent gaps with Euro recruits. (none of whom are the next Luka, but a few get minutes)
- A team that pushes the ball and takes the first good look but has pretty good shot selection
- A team that doesn't have enough talent to play good defense but also never gives up
- A team with a clear offensive philosophy
I think Wardle would be worth 4-5 wins per season over Wojo from a game coaching and game prep standpoint alone (talent being equal).
Can he recruit at a big East level? Who Knows.
He's still not my first choice, but he'd be better than Wojo.
The problem now for MU is that "better than Wojo" includes about 300 D1 and DII coaches and it cannot be the goal. Coaching that will get MU to the 2nd round of the tournament (or beyond) regularly is the goal.
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John Beilein (not happening)
Thad Matta (not happening)
Mike McMahon (will have a lot of competition)
Luke Yaklich
Wes Miller (waiting on Roy to retire)
Chris Jans
Bob Richie
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Tom crean.
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John Beilein (not happening)
Thad Matta (not happening)
Mike McMahon (will have a lot of competition)
Luke Yaklich
Wes Miller (waiting on Roy to retire)
Chris Jans
Bob Richie
Jans is a very good coach, but if Marquette is going the squeaky clean route, doubt he would ever be a viable candidate after the circumstances of his firing at BG.
Richey is a great name, no experience at a high level but he’s made Furman into a REALLY tough squad
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Devries
McMahon
Otz
Wardle
Quite honestly id give crean an interview too if he wants to back that bad.
edit: crap i forgot oats. he's #1.
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Gottleib
Frese
Oats
After that, look to the mid-majors like Smith, TJO, Devries, Wardle, Dutcher, etc.
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Oats is #1. Highly unlikely, but he would have keys to the kingdom.
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I’d put the chances at Oats leaving Bama after one year while having a really good team this year and a huge recruiting class next year at 0.001%. I’d put him at one if I thought there was any chance at all he’d come to MU.
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oats is a zero chance. come on kids..
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oats is a zero chance. come on kids..
Exactly, that oats ship has unfortunately sailed. He’s the goods and that was apparent a couple years ago.
I think Craig Smith is also the goods. Just look at his progress and then success everywhere he’s been - South Dakota and Utah State. I fear, like Oats, the timing won’t line up and we’ll miss out on him and regret it a few years later.
Either way it needs to be someone with head coaching experience. I know it’s been done but its too tough to learn on the job in the big east imo.
Nova, UConn, hall, creighton, prov, butler were all sitting head coaches prior to their current job.
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I’d put the chances at Oats leaving Bama after one year while having a really good team this year and a huge recruiting class next year at 0.001%. I’d put him at one if I thought there was any chance at all he’d come to MU.
I agree, but you make the call. Never know if someone has a go home clause in their buyout. We were 30 minutes from having Tony Bennett. When there's an obvious home run out there, you at least pick up the phone.
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So many are speculating MU has no chance on one guy or another. Well, Wojo-Dukiet and the admin have put the program into this position. It is long past time to cut bait and find the right guy. Wojo-Dukiet ain't the one.
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I’d put the chances at Oats leaving Bama after one year while having a really good team this year and a huge recruiting class next year at 0.001%. I’d put him at one if I thought there was any chance at all he’d come to MU.
This is his second year but I agree with you.
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I've mentioned this before, but I would be very intrigued, and optimistic, by an actual coaching search by Scholl. Every hire he has made thus far has been very successful, and let's not forget that he was hired after Wojo. Duffy was already a head coach before she came here (and was successful at Miami, OH). In 2014, I would be absolutely shocked if I was told that the women's program would be in much better shape and trajectory than the men's side. But, that's where we are unfortunately.
I continue to believe that our administration would have a pool of coaching candidates similar to the likes of Wardle, Moser and DeVries, if the position did become open. I would really love our next coach to be someone in the Lon Kruger-mold, a successful and proven head coach that wins everywhere he goes. A few seasons ago, I would have put Bruce Weber in this grouping, but the last two seasons have not been kind for him at KSU. Rick Barnes is obviously someone with a resume like this. I'd imagine this would be hiring a head coach that was recently dismissed, I guess (ala Mike Anderson/St. John's).
If a change does end up being made, either this Spring or down the road, I don't think the program can gamble on an up-and-comer assistant again. We struck gold with both Crean and Buzz; struck out with Wojo; it happens.
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And, if it does end up getting opened, the very first calls for the job should be to Beilein and Matta. Both are long-shots to accept (as both would likely have other opportunities elsewhere) but the message about getting a proven and successful winner would be sent and clear. Both also have Jesuit backgrounds on the resume, which the school would obviously love (Beilein - Wheeling Jesuit and LeMoyne College; Matta - Xavier).
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nm
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nm
There are a few posters whose slupery of Wojo borders on lascivious, and will rip anyone who dares question his greatness. They're mysteriously absent today, but would surely be on here beating their chests had we squeaked one out against DePaul.
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And, if it does end up getting opened, the very first calls for the job should be to Beilein and Matta. Both are long-shots to accept (as both would likely have other opportunities elsewhere) but the message about getting a proven and successful winner would be sent and clear. Both also have Jesuit backgrounds on the resume, which the school would obviously love (Beilein - Wheeling Jesuit and LeMoyne College; Matta - Xavier).
Beilein will be 68 in a couple weeks. He *might* have five years left if he starts coaching tomorrow, but would likely be ready to retire by the time he got the program rolling. Matta's another story. He's only 53, is a lifelong Midwesterner, and has had success at two different basketball-only schools. Georgia thought he was healthy enough to offer him $16 million, but he turned them down. He said he wasn't ready to accept a job at that time, but I'd also guess that moving his family to the south and coaching at a school where basketball is a very distant second to football had something to do with him rejecting their offer. He *will* coach again someday and Marquette would be a perfect fit. I do worry that a school like Wichita State will snap him up while we're still spinning our wheels with Wojo.
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I'm a UW-Green Bay grad and a Marquette fan. I really liked Wardle when he was at UW-Green Bay, but it wasn't perfect. There was a point where he was investigated for dishing out verbal and emotional abuse a little too far with some of his players. That said, the administration decided the allegations weren't strong enough for him to lose his job and I never heard of any of those issues after that investigation and the team played very well in the years after the allegations.
At UW-Green Bay, it was actually pretty incredible the amount of talent he brought in there. The 2013-2014 team that won the Horizon League regular season had 2 future NBA draft picks (neither made it to the NBA though) plus 1 other guy in Alfonso McKinnie who has been a spot starter in the NBA. Wardle's last couple of seasons at UW-Green Bay, they were fantastic defensively, one of the better teams in the country before he left.
Now, the downside was that for whatever reason, there was an incredible amount of turnover at shooting guard, like every year a different guy would transfer and it was the one weakness he never really fixed during his time there and it limited the offense a little bit and probably prevented them from greater success though they certainly were very good his last couple seasons at GB.
I haven't seen much of his Bradley teams, they do look better offensively than his UWGB teams did overall in the rare times I've seen them. Based on what I saw at UWGB, I think he'd have Marquette play better defense than they have under Wojo. I think he could do a good job at Marquette. I don't know if he'd be as good as Buzz, but few guys are that good. And as good as Buzz was, I just wasn't a fan of his, I just thought he was phony as hell the whole time and was always looking to leave if he could. At least Wardle having been an alumni will probably more eager to stick around if things are going well.
As for Wojo, I was definitely a Wojo fan until the collapse 2 seasons ago that led to the Hausers transferring. At that point, I knew he was in trouble. To his credit, they looked pretty good last year, but watching them this year where they clearly have the talent to be better than they are, I think it's time Marquette gave someone else a chance.
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Kevin O’Neil
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Dayton is his alma mater. He's not leaving there for Marquette.
Totally agree, 5-8 years ago maybe but Wojo has brought this program to a new low. I don’t like taking shots at a guy who works his tail off, is a genuinely nice person and good family man, but he’s paid well and the truth hurts. Accountability is a tough pill to swallow at times.
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The coach is not the problem.
The next coach will be the same.
The selection criteria has to change, I don't think it will.
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The coach is not the problem.
The next coach will be the same.
The selection criteria has to change, I don't think it will.
The “selection criteria” has changed since Wojo was brought in.
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Totally agree, 5-8 years ago maybe but Wojo has brought this program to a new low. I don’t like taking shots at a guy who works his tail off, is a genuinely nice person and good family man, but he’s paid well and the truth hurts. Accountability is a tough pill to swallow at times.
A new low would be what Hopkins is doing at UDub, St Joes and Iowa State right now, Georgetown. This is mediocrity that can be remedied quickly.
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We could’ve had Oats if we’d sh-tcanned Wojo after the inexcusable collapse followed by the botched MH/Hauser situation, and it was the obvious right move at the time. MU really unnatural carnal knowledgeed that up bad.
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A new low would be what Hopkins is doing at UDub, St Joes and Iowa State right now, Georgetown. This is mediocrity that can be remedied quickly.
Agreed. People calling this a new low or complete trash etc aren't being intellectually honest with the situation.
It's frustrating mediocrity mixed with unacceptable bipolar results.
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John Beilein (not happening)
Thad Matta (not happening)
Mike McMahon (will have a lot of competition)
Luke Yaklich
Wes Miller (waiting on Roy to retire)
Chris Jans
Bob Richie
Is Matta really that unrealistic? Will he have many better opportunities than MU?
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We could’ve had Oats if we’d sh-tcanned Wojo after the inexcusable collapse followed by the botched MH/Hauser situation, and it was the obvious right move at the time. MU really unnatural carnal knowledgeed that up bad.
Add to that, he not only wasn’t shown the door, they gleefully extended him! Scholl’s statement being they were excited at direction of the program under him!! 🤯
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We could’ve had Oats if we’d sh-tcanned Wojo after the inexcusable collapse followed by the botched MH/Hauser situation, and it was the obvious right move at the time. MU really unnatural carnal knowledgeed that up bad.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETAT3wNXQAEEp2B?format=jpg&name=small)
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I’m sure coaches would’ve been sprinting to get in line for a job that just “sh*tcanned” it’s coach following a 2nd place finish in the BE and a 5 seed in the NCAA Tournament.
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I’m sure coaches would’ve been sprinting to get in line for a job that just “sh*tcanned” it’s coach following a 2nd place finish in the BE and a 5 seed in the NCAA Tournament.
Exactly. It was a disappointing finish but no ad will ever make a move following the season they had, even after the bad finish.
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Is Matta really that unrealistic? Will he have many better opportunities than MU?
The great unknown is his health situation.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETAT3wNXQAEEp2B?format=jpg&name=small)
We could’ve had Oats if we’d sh-tcanned Wojo after the inexcusable collapse followed by the botched MH/Hauser situation, and it was the obvious right move at the time. MU really unnatural carnal knowledgeed that up bad.
Nope. And I wasn’t the only one saying it. Amazed how many are now just waking up. This may look good in hindsight to you but that’s you.
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I’m sure coaches would’ve been sprinting to get in line for a job that just “sh*tcanned” it’s coach following a 2nd place finish in the BE and a 5 seed in the NCAA Tournament.
You run cover for Wojo regardless of any circumstance ever. You don’t have much credibility in this discussion sorry. Watching a top 5 roster crumble on his watch was grounds for termination and easily justifiable.
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The great unknown is his health situation.
Unlike Urban Meyer, Matta’s health situation isn’t getting caught chasing girls the same ages as his daughters. It’s legit.
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Steve Novak
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You run cover for Wojo regardless of any circumstance ever. You don’t have much credibility in this discussion sorry. Watching a top 5 roster crumble on his watch was grounds for termination and easily justifiable.
Like I said, coaches definitely would’ve been sprinting to Milwaukee for a chance to interview at a program that just “sh*tcanned” a coach that finished 2nd in the BE and a 5 seed in the NCAA Tournament. Especially at a school that has been better than a 5 seed a total of 5 times in the history of the NCAA Tournament.
Brilliant stuff.
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The roster didn't crumble until April. They weren't firing Wojo then. Gimme a break.
They should fire him now, but they won't.
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Like I said, coaches definitely would’ve been sprinting to Milwaukee for a chance to interview at a program that just “sh*tcanned” a coach that finished 2nd in the BE and a 5 seed in the NCAA Tournament. Especially at a school that has been better than a 5 seed a total of 5 times in the history of the NCAA Tournament.
Brilliant stuff.
Exactly
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Fire him now, maybe Killings can save this season? If not look at Wardle and others after season.
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Like I said, coaches definitely would’ve been sprinting to Milwaukee for a chance to interview at a program that just “sh*tcanned” a coach that finished 2nd in the BE and a 5 seed in the NCAA Tournament. Especially at a school that has been better than a 5 seed a total of 5 times in the history of the NCAA Tournament.
Brilliant stuff.
I agree that Marquette, nor any other school, would've fired Wojo in spring 2019, though there were definitely a lot of red flags in the second half of the season which suggested he was in over his head.
That said, you've been a big time jerk to anyone who dared question Wojo's greatness for years, but after last night's game, as the Rolling Stones would say, "It's all over now." We dropped to 79 in the NET rankings and lost to a DePaul team that might not win another game all season. It will be very, very hard for us to come back from that loss and make the tournament, and no amount of you saying "We got our guy" or "Who?" every time the Hausers get brought up (despite you once starting a thread titled "Man do I love the Hausers") is going to change that. Wojo is the worst coach we've had since Dukiet and needs to be shown the door as soon as possible. You believe that happy crappy?
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Like I said, coaches definitely would’ve been sprinting to Milwaukee for a chance to interview at a program that just “sh*tcanned” a coach that finished 2nd in the BE and a 5 seed in the NCAA Tournament. Especially at a school that has been better than a 5 seed a total of 5 times in the history of the NCAA Tournament.
Brilliant stuff.
I mean let’s start with you have no idea what coaches would do. You can presume and your presumption might be right but it’s still a presumption. Second if we had SH-TCANNED (sorry to offend) your boy and had Oats been interested/hired we’d be a much better program today.
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I agree that Marquette, nor any other school, would've fired Wojo in spring 2019, though there were definitely a lot of red flags in the second half of the season which suggested he was in over his head.
That said, you've been a big time jerk to anyone who dared question Wojo's greatness for years, but after last night's game, as the Rolling Stones would say, "It's all over now." We dropped to 79 in the NET rankings and lost to a DePaul team that might not win another game all season. It will be very, very hard for us to come back from that loss and make the tournament, and no amount of you saying "We got our guy" or "Who?" every time the Hausers get brought up (despite you once starting a thread titled "Man do I love the Hausers") is going to change that. Wojo is the worst coach we've had since Dukiet and needs to be shown the door as soon as possible. You believe that happy crappy?
Cool.
We should not have “sh*tcanned” Wojo after 2019.
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The worst decision is continuing to waste time employing a coach you know is not the answer.
For many, that answer was obvious after 2019. The correct answer is always less years paying a guy you know isn’t “the guy”. Stop delaying the inevitable and wasting money. No one cares 5 years later if you fired that other coach too soon.
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The “selection criteria” has changed since Wojo was brought in.
You want to bet? Marquette is all about image and brand management.
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Matta's another story. He's only 53, is a lifelong Midwesterner, and has had success at two different basketball-only schools.
I can’t believe Matta is only 53. While he was coaching at tOSU he looked older than Normal Dale did the year he took Hickory to states.
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Wojo was hired before Lovell and Scholl were. It should be stressed that neither was involved in hiring Wojo (Cords and Wild hired him). It’s a huge assumption that both would sit idle if team continues to decline.
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Wrong on Lovell. Woj was hired prior to Lovell, but no coach was taking this job without meeting with the prez in waiting, hey?
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Lovell the type of guy who would pull a Kevin McHale and just hire himself to coach the team
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Lovell the type of guy who would pull a Kevin McHale and just hire himself to coach the team
So we would save money and the players would run the team? I don’t know how this is different than our current situation.
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Wojo was hired before Lovell and Scholl were. It should be stressed that neither was involved in hiring Wojo (Cords and Wild hired him). It’s a huge assumption that both would sit idle if team continues to decline.
It looks like Lovell being the next president was made public 6 days before we hired Wojo. If I remember right, they hired him quickly to make a final effort on Shaka.
I don’t know how much input he had, but I think he was involved in the Wojo hire.
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My recollection was that Lovell and Cords (and maybe Doc?) were the ones to fly out to meet Shaka.
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My recollection was that Lovell and Cords (and maybe Doc?) were the ones to fly out to meet Shaka.
Lovell was there, and was at least around for the Wojo process, but I don't think he was driving the bus by any means.
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1. Nate Oates
2. Travis Ford- has St. Louis ranked with wins over LSU and NC State. Has been in a power 6 conference before and recruits Illinois and the Midwest.
3. Leon Rice-Boise State head coach who has 20 + winning seasons 8 out of 10 years and 5 ncaa post seasons.
4. Rick Stansberry- Western Kentucky coach who also coached at Mississippi State.
5. Wardle
6. TJO at UNLV
Also, I do like the idea of Matta just not sure he wants to coach again.
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Lovell was there, and was at least around for the Wojo process, but I don't think he was driving the bus by any means.
Doc was very instrumental with opening the door for Shaka with with Strong (money man) and Cords, with a check-in with Lovell (not announced until this time). Doc checked off with Wojo from his son's day and then it was Ferraro (BOT) and Lovell with Cords, etc. Strong was in Europe and wasn't informed or consulted.
(https://marquettewire.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/IMG_3782-900x675.jpg ::))
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You mean Strong....not Smart....
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You mean Strong....not Smart....
Well I meant both but yes Strong. Lol
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Changing the direction of this thread.
The CC BB game is evolving. I look at all the turnovers by this team.
Could it be the 30 second time clock and not understanding the game as it is played now?
Do we need a coach that understands the game as it is played today?
Watching the UNC vs Marquette championship game and how they played. Very little similarity to todays game other than 10 players on the court.
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Slightly OT, but I am reading Twitter and seeing the Tennessee Football community losing its mind over its team football plane currently being in Charlotte, with an apparent imminent announcement of its next head football coach. Brings back some very entertaining (and emotionally draining) days from a few years ago.
Whenever the day comes, it will be funny to watch us (once again) conduct investigative reporting as to whom the school leadership is secretly meeting with.
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What about Kelvin Sampson? Brings a little bit of baggage but has Houston rolling and is only making 300K.
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What about Kelvin Sampson? Brings a little bit of baggage but has Houston rolling and is only making 300K.
$300K/year...times 10.
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1. Nate Oates - what's his buyout?
2. Travis Ford- has St. Louis ranked with wins over LSU and NC State. Has been in a power 6 conference before and recruits Illinois and the Midwest. - OK success at a power 5 but wasted some good talent with early tourney exits. What's his buy out also?
3. Leon Rice-Boise State head coach who has 20 + winning seasons 8 out of 10 years and 5 ncaa post seasons. - Not coming East. Sorry.
4. Rick Stansberry- Western Kentucky coach who also coached at Mississippi State. - Dirty as hell. Pass.
5. Wardle - most realistic.
6. TJO at UNLV - would he leave UNLV so soon? Not tearing it up this year either.
Also, I do like the idea of Matta just not sure he wants to coach again.
What about Kelvin Sampson? Brings a little bit of baggage but has Houston rolling and is only making 300K.
A "little bit of baggage?" Two major programs hit with serious sanctions because of his actions. Plus, IU was rife with drug use under him. The Queen Mary carries less baggage than he does. John Glaser gets the job before he does.
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If Wojo goes, there should be only one call, and that's to Nate Oats. Proven winner at Buffalo, already turning Alabama around, grew up in Wisconsin very close to Milwaukee, can recruit the Midwest, a ton of connections from coaching HS hoops in Michigan, & his strong faith makes him a better fit at Marquette then a public university.
If you read the features on him, there's a lot of the blue collar, grind-it-out mentality that will help here. Not "I sat next to Coach K, therefore I'm a good coach" entitlement.
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I really doubt Oats leaves Alabama for Marquette.
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I really doubt Oats leaves Alabama for Marquette.
I'd doubt it too but there's enough to show he loves WI/Great Lakes between His home town, college, Hs coaching, and even Buffalo, that it'd be worth a call should we be in the search.
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I really doubt Oats leaves Alabama for Marquette.
Even more doubtful we could afford him with our financial situation. He makes nearly $2.5 million and has a $5.5 million buyout after March 14.
https://247sports.com/college/alabama/Article/Alabama-Basketball-approves-contracts-for-Nate-Oats-Antoine-Pettway-132066880/#:~:text=Oats'%20five%2Dyear%20contract%20worth,%2C%20through%20March%2014%2C%202024.
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Folks, you are wasting your time speculating about a new coach this year. It will not happen, absent an absolute and total collapse in which we fail to win another game this year and one or more of our players getting caught doing things they ought not be doing.
It will cost too much money at a time when we are strapped for cash.
Second, it’s about revenue. We can’t tell how far down revenue has fallen because we have no fans at the Computing Castle. Check back next year.
Third, for us, Marquette basketball is something special. Many of us know how good it once was and can be again. Since Father Wild rode off into the sunset, I really don’t think basketball has the importance to or commitment from our administration. As long as we win more than we lose, don’t make waves and certainly don’t get locked up in an NCAA investigation, they’ll be happy.
This is where I blame Buzz. Yes, he was really a good coach and had us headed back to where most of us here think we should be. But the front page reporting in the Chicago Tribune, the NCAA slap on the wrist and other rumors surrounding the team did us no favors with the powers that be. Wojo is here largely because his PowerPoint made him the anti-Buzz.
Nothing in that PowerPoint, in the eyes of the Adminisitration, has changed. That’s why we’ll have Wojo next year and the year after.
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$300K/year...times 10.
Salary of $300 with quite a few incentive opportunities yes, does Wojo have similar structure to his?
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Salary of $300 with quite a few incentive opportunities yes, does Wojo have similar structure to his?
No, it's literally 10x what you suggested. $300k in base salary, $2.7M in guaranteed non-salary compensation, then bonuses on top of that.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/college/article/A-closer-look-at-Kelvin-Sampson-s-new-UH-contract-13742649.php
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No, it's literally 10x what you suggested. $300k in base salary, $2.7M in guaranteed non-salary compensation, then bonuses on top of that.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/college/article/A-closer-look-at-Kelvin-Sampson-s-new-UH-contract-13742649.php
Sounds like Buzz’s set up. I think his base salary was low, but a ton was paid to Buzz Williams LLC or something like that.
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Sounds like Buzz’s set up. I think his base salary was low, but a ton was paid to Buzz Williams LLC or something like that.
That's what it reminded me of too, only even more extreme.
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i dont see anything that would entice oates to come here. is there anything?? he grew up round here? doubt that means much. hes a devote xtian? great so is 90% of alabama folks. there is nothing. the current st of our program, it would be a step down for him. why even mention the name.
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I really doubt Oats leaves Alabama for Marquette.
It'll be hard to compete against that SEC money.
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First, folks can talk about red flags or of a few Scoopers saying "fire Wojo" back in the spring of 2019, but there was 0.0% chance Wojo was going to get fired after the 2018-19 season. I doubt there is a single school in the entire country that would have fired their head coach in a similar circumstance. So a few ridiculous Scoopers can keep posting that Wojo should have been fired then until they wear off the letters on their keyboards typing the same ridiculous thing, but it's not going to change anything.
Over the last 3 years, I have moved from Strongly ProJo (during 2018-19 season and before) ... to moderate Projo (after the collapse and Hausershima coup attempt) ... to ShowJo (after last season's collapse) ... to willing NoJo now.
All of us know what the problem is: Administration does not seem anywhere near as disappointed with Wojo as those of us who would like to see a change made. Whining on the interwebs won't lead to anything, but I guess it's what passes as a fun distraction in what's looking like a lost season during the middle of a pandemic. Whee!
In an ideal world, what I'd like to see happen is this ...
Fire Wojo right now. Eat the buyout. Hire Killings as interim coach. Commence the search.
If Killings kills it - not just with results on the floor but by showing definite coaching chops and by keeping all recruits on the line - then you hire him after the NCAA tourney victories.
In the meantime, get in touch with Matta's people immediately. He is the obvious choice, and he might be interested. I imagine his price would be higher than MU would be willing to pay - not just for his own salary but for the high-priced assistants he'd want to hire. Still, maybe the allure of a Midwest basketball school that spends big bucks on its program and draws nice crowds would get him to offer a slight discount. Won't know until you try. Naturally, this all depends on his health.
After that, sure, reach out to any number of names that already have been mentioned in this thread, even those who seemingly wouldn't be available (such as Oats).
I'm one with serious reservations about Wardle, but I'd be open-minded about anybody.
Again, all of the above is "in an ideal world." But every single Scooper knows it is not an ideal world. Administration does not seem especially motivated to sack Wojo.
So the pragmatist in me says Wojo will still be the head coach at Marquette Madness next October. Hopefully without a contract extension, though I wouldn't be surprised about that, either.
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Folks, you are wasting your time speculating about a new coach this year. It will not happen, absent an absolute and total collapse in which we fail to win another game this year and one or more of our players getting caught doing things they ought not be doing.
It will cost too much money at a time when we are strapped for cash.
The biggest issue will not be paying the buyout. It's the optics of paying it out.
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The biggest issue will not be paying the buyout. It's the optics of paying it out.
Yep can’t argue with that.
What I do wonder is how the university will view another collapse this season if it does happen?
We can all agree they’ve been somewhat ambivalent towards the mediocre results, but it would be a very difficult scenario to navigate if the trend of results continue downward this season.
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If Wojo goes, there should be only one call, and that's to Nate Oats. Proven winner at Buffalo, already turning Alabama around, grew up in Wisconsin very close to Milwaukee, can recruit the Midwest, a ton of connections from coaching HS hoops in Michigan, & his strong faith makes him a better fit at Marquette then a public university.
If you read the features on him, there's a lot of the blue collar, grind-it-out mentality that will help here. Not "I sat next to Coach K, therefore I'm a good coach" entitlement.
Id be shocked if any P6 coach would leave their position for Marquette at this point. Sad it’s gotten to this point
But yeah. No way Oates leaves. They have even more 5 stars coming in next year, he’s rolling in Bama
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Id be shocked if any P6 coach would leave their position for Marquette at this point. Sad it’s gotten to this point
But yeah. No way Oates leaves. They have even more 5 stars coming in next year, he’s rolling in Bama
Crean might. And that's sad for us and him.
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Id be shocked if any P6 coach would leave their position for Marquette at this point. Sad it’s gotten to this point
I don't know ... there are a few Scoopers who think established, tourney-game-winning, baggage-free P6 coaches will be beating down Marquette's door if we dump Wojo, despite decades of history to the contrary.
I miss guru.
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In an ideal world, what I'd like to see happen is this ...
Fire Wojo right now. Eat the buyout. Hire Killings as interim coach. Commence the search.
If Killings kills it - not just with results on the floor but by showing definite coaching chops and by keeping all recruits on the line - then you hire him after the NCAA tourney victories.
In the meantime, get in touch with Matta's people immediately. He is the obvious choice, and he might be interested. I imagine his price would be higher than MU would be willing to pay - not just for his own salary but for the high-priced assistants he'd want to hire. Still, maybe the allure of a Midwest basketball school that spends big bucks on its program and draws nice crowds would get him to offer a slight discount. Won't know until you try. Naturally, this all depends on his health.
I agree with everything you said in your post, but this part especially. There's enough season left where, if Wojo got the axe, it could revitalize the team and start them on a run to the NCAA Tournament if Killings does a good job. I also think a lot of folks on here are questioning the admin's commitment to building and maintaining a winning basketball program. Firing Wojo now would send a clear message that mediocre results will not be tolerated.
Unfortunately, none of this will actually happen.
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The biggest issue will not be paying the buyout. It's the optics of paying it out.
Fluff,
It seems like they will be paying for the buyout for years anyway as season ticket renewals decline, potential donors stop giving and apathy increases. Also, there are many potential students (as stupid as it sounds) who choose schools based on athletic success of football and basketball teams.
This is a business decision that may need to be made despite the optics.
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Fluff,
It seems like they will be paying for the buyout for years anyway as season ticket renewals decline, potential donors stop giving and apathy increases. Also, there are many potential students (as stupid as it sounds) who choose schools based on athletic success of football and basketball teams.
This is a business decision that may need to be made despite the optics.
I don't disagree with any of this.
Also payouts aren't always just lump-sum payments. The timeline and method of the payout may already be outlined in the contract. And anything can be negotiated anyway. And you are right that declines in revenue have to be taken into consideration.
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All of us know what the problem is: Administration does not seem anywhere near as disappointed with Wojo as those of us who would like to see a change made. Whining on the interwebs won't lead to anything, but I guess it's what passes as a fun distraction in what's looking like a lost season during the middle of a pandemic. Whee!
This is what I think hardest for fans willing to go to a team message board to grasp. What is important to us is simply not anywhere near as important to the current administration. They are ok with this level of performance--or certainly not willing to absorb what it would cost to change it. (They are far too busy eliminating anything about MU that made it unique, special, or different from any of the other hundreds of liberal arts colleges that dot the midwest, but that discussion probably belongs in the Superbar, if that is still a thing.) So here we are, watching mediocrity become our mantra.
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If Killings kills it - not just with results on the floor but by showing definite coaching chops and by keeping all recruits on the line - then you hire him after the NCAA tourney victories.
If you fire Wojo (and there is no way MU is going to do it during the season, especially in this climate, barring a Final Four run hiring the fired guy's assistant looks pretty bad and makes no sense. We hired Buzz after Crean willingly left. Hiring Killings after what we all assume is going to be the conclusion to this season, says nobody else is interested in the job (see: SIUE, firing Jon Harris and hiring his assistant, Brian Barone).
As far as the fiscal impact, the best case scenario would be Wojo being hired by another school to mitigate the cost of the buyout (what happened with Travis Ford at SLU)..
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If you fire Wojo (and there is no way MU is going to do it during the season, especially in this climate, barring a Final Four run hiring the fired guy's assistant looks pretty bad and makes no sense. We hired Buzz after Crean willingly left. Hiring Killings after what we all assume is going to be the conclusion to this season, says nobody else is interested in the job (see: SIUE, firing Jon Harris and hiring his assistant, Brian Barone).
As far as the fiscal impact, the best case scenario would be Wojo being hired by another school to mitigate the cost of the buyout (what happened with Travis Ford at SLU)..
Just so you're aware, I never even suggested that Killings be hired as the head coach if Wojo is fired at the end of this or any other season.
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This is what I think hardest for fans willing to go to a team message board to grasp. What is important to us is simply not anywhere near as important to the current administration. They are ok with this level of performance--or certainly not willing to absorb what it would cost to change it. (They are far too busy eliminating anything about MU that made it unique, special, or different from any of the other hundreds of liberal arts colleges that dot the midwest, but that discussion probably belongs in the Superbar, if that is still a thing.) So here we are, watching mediocrity become our mantra.
It is odd the administration seems to accept these results but have been totally fine paying Wojo and his assistants such high salaries.
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Just so you're aware, I never even suggested that Killings be hired as the head coach if Wojo is fired at the end of this or any other season.
I took it as a hypothetical on your part if Wojo were fired during the season.
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What makes everyone think the admin is pleased with the results?
It's not like theyre going to release their own presser after each game and bash him.
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What makes everyone think the admin is pleased with the results?
It's not like theyre going to release their own presser after each game and bash him.
We’ll see at the end of the season...
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What makes everyone think the admin is pleased with the results?
It's not like theyre going to release their own presser after each game and bash him.
That's a legitimate point.
Many Scoopers think that after the 2018-19 season or 2019-20 season, Wojo already had produced bad enough results to be fired, so they assume that the administration must love Wojo unconditionally because he is still employed.
However, TAMU and a couple of others who rely on facts rather than emotion have produced data showing that only 1 (or maybe 2, I can't remember) P6 coaches have been fired with resumes similar to the one Wojo had after last season.
So while the administration might not "care" as much as some Scoopers who claim they would have fired Wojo 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 200 years ago, the only fact-based evidence we have is that Marquette's administration cares as much about its basketball program vis-a-vis the coach's record as every other program in the country has over the decades.
Maybe this season will go completely into the tank from here -- I hope not, but maybe it will. If we finish, say, 6-14 in the BEast and 10-16 overall, what will the administration do?
If they keep Wojo (or fire him), then we'll have a clue what the honchos and poobahs are thinking.
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The administration may have more patience than we do.
But my guess is that if the administration knew that the next couple of years would be no better than the last six, that they would say "adios."
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Years 2-6 = 20 wins per year. No off-court issues. I am pretty damn sure that if, in the next few years, the administration was promised 20-ish wins per year and no off-court issues, they would tell all the NoJo's to pound sand.
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Years 2-6 = 20 wins per year. No off-court issues. I am pretty damn sure that if, in the next few years, the administration was promised 20-ish wins per year and no off-court issues, they would tell all the NoJo's to pound sand.
With no tourney wins or conference titles?
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Years 2-6 = 20 wins per year. No off-court issues. I am pretty damn sure that if, in the next few years, the administration was promised 20-ish wins per year and no off-court issues, they would tell all the NoJo's to pound sand.
Which is what's wrong. We need to be a consistent Top 20 team that competes for a Conference Championship and is in the national talk.
Our 20 wins in recent years have given us diabetes.
Again, I truly think our administration doesn't care if we're a Top 20 team. They care about things you outline above. The sad thing is if the Administration opened their eyes, as Father Wild did, it would see the marketing importance of being a really good basketball powerhouse. They'd do the things that would give us national prominence.
You're up Dr. Lovell....
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Years 2-6 = 20 wins per year. No off-court issues. I am pretty damn sure that if, in the next few years, the administration was promised 20-ish wins per year and no off-court issues, they would tell all the NoJo's to pound sand.
This is definitely a valid point but it's only the rosy side of things.
Conversely, 2 of those had no NCAA tournament which to me indicates padded schedules and not being competitive with the next tier. Two of those years we've limped into the end of the season looking like garbage (much like we do now).
There's two sides of every coin. One side is AVG 20 wins & .500 in BE from yrs 2-6 with great recruits. The other is poor postseason, if any, best recruits transfer, poor season finishes, little to no improvement year over year.
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Years 2-6 = 20 wins per year. No off-court issues. I am pretty damn sure that if, in the next few years, the administration was promised 20-ish wins per year and no off-court issues, they would tell all the NoJo's to pound sand.
And the season ticket holders may also tell the admin “to pound sand.”
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Which is what's wrong. We need to be a consistent Top 20 team that competes for a Conference Championship and is in the national talk.
Our 20 wins in recent years have given us diabetes.
Again, I truly think our administration doesn't care if we're a Top 20 team. They care about things you outline above. The sad thing is if the Administration opened their eyes, as Father Wild did, it would see the marketing importance of being a really good basketball powerhouse. They'd do the things that would give us national prominence.
You're up Dr. Lovell....
The only way Father Wild would have fired Wojo by now would have been if he thought Wojo going to 3 NCAA tourneys in his last 4 years was the exact same as Deane going to 2 NCAAs in his last 4 years, including 14-15 his final season.
Father Wild was pretty smart. I doubt he would have thought that way. But I guess we'll never know.
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Years 2-6 = 20 wins per year. No off-court issues. I am pretty damn sure that if, in the next few years, the administration was promised 20-ish wins per year and no off-court issues, they would tell all the NoJo's to pound sand.
Mike Deane also averaged 20 wins per year over a five year span, and won more tournament games than Wojo.
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And the season ticket holders may also tell the admin “to pound sand.”
Do it! Instead of just grumbling on Scoop (or wherever folks grumble), don't buy season tickets. Let ST sales shrink from thousands to hundreds. THAT would get the admin's attention.
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Even more doubtful we could afford him with our financial situation. He makes nearly $2.5 million and has a $5.5 million buyout after March 14.
https://247sports.com/college/alabama/Article/Alabama-Basketball-approves-contracts-for-Nate-Oats-Antoine-Pettway-132066880/#:~:text=Oats'%20five%2Dyear%20contract%20worth,%2C%20through%20March%2014%2C%202024.
from a former BOT I know, MU has big $. No issue. But will they spend it on a HC & staff? I was told Wojo $, but probably not beyond.
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Years 2-6 = 20 wins per year. No off-court issues. I am pretty damn sure that if, in the next few years, the administration was promised 20-ish wins per year and no off-court issues, they would tell all the NoJo's to pound sand.
I don't believe this to be true. But I have as much credibility as you do concerning this.
I've said it before and will say it again; MU publicly will stand up for and support Wojo 100% ...... until they let him go. It is in MU's , and Wojo's, best interest to be as 'ProJo' as possible until the day they make a change. Lack of public comments or leaks to the contrary speaks to MU's sophistication and cannot be viewed as an endorsement of Wojo's results or of his actual likelihood of continued employment.
If we want to speculate we can point to what is publicly known and factually true, that MU only gave him a modest extension, not an attempt to lock him up long term.
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With no tourney wins or conference titles?
crapshoot eh?
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I'm fully expecting an extension for Wojo after the season.
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I'm fully expecting an extension for Wojo after the season.
Yep - He's always asked for one to promise recruits he'll be here when they graduate and it's that time again...
Hopefully the powers that be tell him it's put up or shut time when the question is asked.
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I'm fully expecting an extension for Wojo after the season.
Maybe, but the optics on that will be bad for MU. Rewarding a coach with mediocre results with millions of dollars while other university employees who do their job well are let go. Sounds like a PR nightmare.
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Years 2-6 = 20 wins per year. No off-court issues. I am pretty damn sure that if, in the next few years, the administration was promised 20-ish wins per year and no off-court issues, they would tell all the NoJo's to pound sand.
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NCAA committee tells you how successful your year was...not 20 wins. NCAA tourney appearances, tourney wins, and conference finishes tell you how successful you've been over 6 years...not averaging 20 wins in years 2-6. In 15-16 MU won 20 games and finished 7th in conference and no tourney bid. In 16-17 MU won 19 games, tied for 3rd in conference, and made the tourney.
6 years under Wojo...we've finished in the top half of the conference twice and made 2 NCAA tourneys with no NCAA wins. That's just not acceptable...and I like the guy way more than I thought I would...
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We can point to the multiple 20-win seasons Wojo has had while here at Marquette. On the surface, the optics can show we have a clean and competitive program, capable of competing for an NCAA Tournament berth annually. However, doing a deeper dive into each of his seasons, it is clear that a majority of his respective teams regress at the end. Well coached and successful teams get better and improve as the season goes on, not worse. Last ten games each season under Wojo:
14-15: 3-7 (No NCAAT, 1-1 BET) *Lost six of last seven regular season games
15-16: 5-5 (No NCAAT, 1-1 BET)
16-17: 5-5 (0-1 NCAAT, 0-1 BET)
17-18: 7-3 (No NCAAT, 2-1 NIT, 1-1 BET)
18-19: 4-6 (0-1 NCAAT, 0-1 BET) *Lost six of last seven total games
19-20: 4-6 (N/A NCAAT, N/A BET) *Lost six of last seven regular season games
IMO, these figures are much more reflective of the program trajectory than simply pointing to the number of twenty win seasons, the quality of recruits or the clean-cut image of the program.
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Years 2-6 = 20 wins per year. No off-court issues. I am pretty damn sure that if, in the next few years, the administration was promised 20-ish wins per year and no off-court issues, they would tell all the NoJo's to pound sand.
Tower has undoubtedly become the #1 Wojo Woofer, bar none. Live in it Tower, maybe in year 10 will Wpojo accomplish something.
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Oats was on Goodman and Hummel’s podcast last week and talked MU! When asked about being at a big time football school, he mentioned growing up in Wisconsin, at Marquette, basketball is the only thing they have for 12 months. At Alabama, he’s the focus for 3 months and can kind of stay under the radar. Mentioned talking to Brad Stevens who was uncomfortable at Butler because she was the highest paid employee. Stevens told him that if he were to go back to college it would be at a big time football school for the same reasons (out of the spotlight). That could be lip service as I’ve heard lots of coaches say they don’t want to be second fiddle in athletic departments.
Side note, the Goodman Hummel podcast is excellent. Willard, Danny Hurley and Oats have been guests probably with their northeast connections with Goodman.
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That's a legitimate point.
Many Scoopers think that after the 2018-19 season or 2019-20 season, Wojo already had produced bad enough results to be fired, so they assume that the administration must love Wojo unconditionally because he is still employed.
However, TAMU and a couple of others who rely on facts rather than emotion have produced data showing that only 1 (or maybe 2, I can't remember) P6 coaches have been fired with resumes similar to the one Wojo had after last season.
Great. And now it’s proven to have been the wrong decision. Guess emotions should’ve driven the decision.
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Of course we all want more. More wins, tourney wins, etc. Marquette has more pressing issues than whether scoop is pissed.
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Years 2-6 = 20 wins per year. No off-court issues. I am pretty damn sure that if, in the next few years, the administration was promised 20-ish wins per year and no off-court issues, they would tell all the NoJo's to pound sand.
20-ish wins in this day and age is mediocre. Beat 7 cupcakes and go .500 (plus or minus one) against Power 6 teams (the lake you swim in). It’s Providence 2.0. I guess to you and some others that equals success. Not for me.
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Great. And now it’s proven to have been the wrong decision. Guess emotions should’ve driven the decision.
I also think Marquette is a special place.
Alas, we merely operate our athletic program the way pretty every other P6 school has the last several decades.
Thank goodness, Scoop is here for all of us to vent.
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Maybe, but the optics on that will be bad for MU. Rewarding a coach with mediocre results with millions of dollars while other university employees who do their job well are let go. Sounds like a PR nightmare.
I don't disagree, but a restructured deal is the only way to lower his buyout and make firing him more affordable in 2022. The optics would be bad, but it might be the easiest way to part ways.
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20-ish wins in this day and age is mediocre. Beat 7 cupcakes and go .500 (plus or minus one) against Power 6 teams (the lake you swim in). It’s Providence 2.0. I guess to you and some others that equals success. Not for me.
Agreed Lenny, bold leadership looks at this and cringes. They then take steps to fix it. MU basketball is the best advertisement for our school for undergrads. Barring a miracle this season is another example of mediocrity. That is a terrible result at Marquette. Financially it is a disaster. I cannot believe it would not be recognized as such by the BOT. I hung on as long as I could with Wojo and always hope I am wrong but he needs to go. A well coached team would be a night and day difference with this talent.
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I also think Marquette is a special place.
Alas, we merely operate our athletic program the way pretty every other P6 school has the last several decades.
Thank goodness, Scoop is here for all of us to vent.
Such a lame excuse for a lack of foresight. I mean extremely lame.
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I don't disagree, but a restructured deal is the only way to lower his buyout and make firing him more affordable in 2022. The optics would be bad, but it might be the easiest way to part ways.
Pretty much what Michigan did with Harbaugh this year fwiw...
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Such a lame excuse for a lack of foresight. I mean extremely lame.
It's not an "excuse." It's simply a fact. Just because you don't like the fact, it doesn't make it less of a fact.
So your hypothesis is that even though not a single other D1 program would have fired its coach after finishing 2nd in the Big East and being a 5 seed, Marquette's administration should have had the foresight to do so? Okey dokey then.
Hey, I wish we had a better coach, too. But I have no power, no control. Neither do you. I choose not to lose my shyte a dozen times a day on some interwebs site, but feel free to do what you have to do.
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It's not an "excuse." It's simply a fact. Just because you don't like the fact, it doesn't make it less of a fact.
So your hypothesis is that even though not a single other D1 program would have fired its coach after finishing 2nd in the Big East and being a 5 seed, Marquette's administration should have had the foresight to do so? Okey dokey then.
Hey, I wish we had a better coach, too. But I have no power, no control. Neither do you. I choose not to lose my shyte a dozen times a day on some interwebs site, but feel free to do what you have to do.
Which part of what you’re saying qualifies as a fact?
An inexcusable collapse followed by a humiliating first round annihilation topped by losing 2 of the 3 best players on a top 5 roster. Who’s your P6 comp for that? Stop hiding behind this “yeah it was a mistake but everyone else would have done the same thing” excuse. A mistake is a mistake and keeping Wojo was a mistake full stop.
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You do your best with the information you have available at the time. You can have whatever opinion you want, but the reality is no AD, even an AD at a blueblood, was ever going to fire Wojo after earning a 5 seed. It has literally never happened without criminal or NCAA violations being involved. You can call it a mistake and history may prove you right but it is not a reasonable expectation.
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Which part of what you’re saying qualifies as a fact?
An inexcusable collapse followed by a humiliating first round annihilation topped by losing 2 of the 3 best players on a top 5 roster. Who’s your P6 comp for that? Stop hiding behind this “yeah it was a mistake but everyone else would have done the same thing” excuse. A mistake is a mistake and keeping Wojo was a mistake full stop.
Monday morning quarterbacking at its finest.
Anyway, here are a couple of comps.
The 2015-16 Baylor Bears. They were 17-4 at one point and ranked in the top 15. They finished the regular season 4-6, lost in the second round of the B12 tournament, and lost to a 12 seeded Yale in the first round. Scott Drew...not fired.
The 2010-11 Vanderbilt Commodores. They were ranked #18, tied for first in the SEC East, then lost three of four. Lost to 12 seeded Richmond in the first round. Kevin Stallings...not fired.
The 2013-14 Cincinnati Bearcats. They were ranked #7 in the country. Lost three of their last six. Lost in the second round of the AAC tournament. Lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament to 12 seeded Harvard. Mick Cronin...not fired.
There are numerous other examples.
The fact is that these types of collapses and losses are pretty regular happenings. Coaches don't get fired for them. And no...there was zero chance they were going to fire Wojo after than AND just because two players transferred.
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Monday morning quarterbacking at its finest.
Anyway, here are a couple of comps.
The 2015-16 Baylor Bears. They were 17-4 at one point and ranked in the top 15. They finished the regular season 4-6, lost in the second round of the B12 tournament, and lost to a 12 seeded Yale in the first round. Scott Drew...not fired.
The 2010-11 Vanderbilt Commodores. They were ranked #18, tied for first in the SEC East, then lost three of four. Lost to 12 seeded Richmond in the first round. Kevin Stallings...not fired.
The 2013-14 Cincinnati Bearcats. They were ranked #7 in the country. Lost three of their last six. Lost in the second round of the AAC tournament. Lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament to 12 seeded Harvard. Mick Cronin...not fired.
There are numerous other examples.
The fact is that these types of collapses and losses are pretty regular happenings. Coaches don't get fired for them. And no...there was zero chance they were going to fire Wojo after than AND just because two players transferred.
Scott Drew had taken Baylor to the Elite 8 the previous season.
Kevin Stallings had a couple of Sweet 16s on his resume at Vandy, and is in the discussion as their best ever coach. (And as it turned out, it probably would have been a good move to let him go.)
Mick Cronin finished first in his conference the season you referenced and at that point had averaged 25 wins over the previous 4 seasons.
Those guys had built a track record of success before those seasons, so not an apples to apples comparison. These are the arguments that Chicos used to use that drove me crazy, that just because some great coach at some time did the same awful thing that Wojo did, it was OK. When you've done a bunch of good things, it is much easier to dismiss a failure as an aberration. Wojo hasn't earned that benefit of the doubt.
Despite this, I do agree with you that pretty much no AD would have jettisoned Wojo at that point.
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Scott Drew had taken Baylor to the Elite 8 the previous season.
Kevin Stallings had a couple of Sweet 16s on his resume at Vandy, and is in the discussion as their best ever coach. (And as it turned out, it probably would have been a good move to let him go.)
Mick Cronin finished first in his conference the season you referenced and at that point had averaged 25 wins over the previous 4 seasons.
Those guys had built a track record of success before those seasons, so not an apples to apples comparison. These are the arguments that Chicos used to use that drove me crazy, that just because some great coach at some time did the same awful thing that Wojo did, it was OK. When you've done a bunch of good things, it is much easier to dismiss a failure as an aberration. Wojo hasn't earned that benefit of the doubt.
Despite this, I do agree with you that pretty much no AD would have jettisoned Wojo at that point.
Those coaches also had a much, much longer time to build a track record of success. I'd actually argue that Wojo's lack of success to that point made it even more reason to keep him around. He went from one of the worst teams in the Big East his first season to second place in the Big East and a 5 seed in his 4th season. That's showing progress, a program moving in the right direction. It would've been completely absurd to fire Wojo then. Had he come in after Buzz's Elite 8 season, kept Blue and McKay in the program, made the Sweet 16 that season, and then seen the program decline, sure you could've fired Wojo. That's not what happened though.
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Scott Drew had taken Baylor to the Elite 8 the previous season.
Kevin Stallings had a couple of Sweet 16s on his resume at Vandy, and is in the discussion as their best ever coach. (And as it turned out, it probably would have been a good move to let him go.)
Mick Cronin finished first in his conference the season you referenced and at that point had averaged 25 wins over the previous 4 seasons.
Those guys had built a track record of success before those seasons, so not an apples to apples comparison. These are the arguments that Chicos used to use that drove me crazy, that just because some great coach at some time did the same awful thing that Wojo did, it was OK. When you've done a bunch of good things, it is much easier to dismiss a failure as an aberration. Wojo hasn't earned that benefit of the doubt.
Despite this, I do agree with you that pretty much no AD would have jettisoned Wojo at that point.
I was simply stating that what you saw from Marquette that year was hardly unprecedented and wasn't a reason to fire anyone.
Those coaches also had a much, much longer time to build a track record of success. I'd actually argue that Wojo's lack of success to that point made it even more reason to keep him around. He went from one of the worst teams in the Big East his first season to second place in the Big East and a 5 seed in his 4th season. That's showing progress, a program moving in the right direction. It would've been completely absurd to fire Wojo then. Had he come in after Buzz's Elite 8 season, kept Blue and McKay in the program, made the Sweet 16 that season, and then seen the program decline, sure you could've fired Wojo. That's not what happened though.
Exactly. We are simply viewing Wojo's 2019 issues in a 2021 lens.
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Of course we all want more. More wins, tourney wins, etc. Marquette has more pressing issues than whether scoop is pissed.
One tourney win would be nice......LOL......
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Those coaches also had a much, much longer time to build a track record of success. I'd actually argue that Wojo's lack of success to that point made it even more reason to keep him around. He went from one of the worst teams in the Big East his first season to second place in the Big East and a 5 seed in his 4th season. That's showing progress, a program moving in the right direction. It would've been completely absurd to fire Wojo then. Had he come in after Buzz's Elite 8 season, kept Blue and McKay in the program, made the Sweet 16 that season, and then seen the program decline, sure you could've fired Wojo. That's not what happened though.
It was his 5th season
1- Carlino and bad
2- Henry and average at best
3- Butt kicked by South Carolina
4- Rowsey and Howard flop against Depaul to get us into the NIT
5- 5 seed in NCAA after could've had a shot a 2 seed
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In the middle of that year, we kind of thought Wojo had the PowerPoint plan working. That team was humming until Markus got hurt.
Granted, that showed Wojo’s weakness to either not adjust or not having control of that team.
I can’t imagine any school would have fired Wojo at that point. Especially, when it is partially due to an injury to your best player.
I think due to the benefit of hindsight, we can see that the issues on that team weren’t just a one-off. But at that time, people were ticked, but thought we were trending upwards. We just have a lot more data to point to now.
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It was his 5th season
1- Carlino and bad
2- Henry and average at best
3- Butt kicked by South Carolina
4- Rowsey and Howard flop against Depaul to get us into the NIT
5- 5 seed in NCAA after could've had a shot a 2 seed
Sorry, you're right. Forgot about the NIT season.
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Which part of what you’re saying qualifies as a fact?
An inexcusable collapse followed by a humiliating first round annihilation topped by losing 2 of the 3 best players on a top 5 roster. Who’s your P6 comp for that? Stop hiding behind this “yeah it was a mistake but everyone else would have done the same thing” excuse. A mistake is a mistake and keeping Wojo was a mistake full stop.
Several fellow Scoopers beat me to it.
You're simply frustrated and angry, and you can't control your emotions enough to be pragmatic.
I highly recommend you channel your frustrations by organizing a petition or leading a boycott. Do something about it rather than make silly, illogical arguments on the interwebs.
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Those coaches also had a much, much longer time to build a track record of success. I'd actually argue that Wojo's lack of success to that point made it even more reason to keep him around. He went from one of the worst teams in the Big East his first season to second place in the Big East and a 5 seed in his 4th season. That's showing progress, a program moving in the right direction. It would've been completely absurd to fire Wojo then. Had he come in after Buzz's Elite 8 season, kept Blue and McKay in the program, made the Sweet 16 that season, and then seen the program decline, sure you could've fired Wojo. That's not what happened though.
I am just saying that though the finish to the seasons were similar (I thought ours was the worst of the four but they are all reasonably close enough), the situations were not really similar at all due to the status/track record of the coach. You could argue like you have that you could give the new coach the benefit of the doubt more if you are so inclined.
So I don't think we really disagree all that much with regards to Wojo. The collapse and an otherwise show of slow but fairly steady progress wasn't enough to let him go in 2019. The Hausers' departure happened late enough in the cycle that even if that was your impetus for changing a coach, it was a bit late in the process to actually do it.
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I am just saying that though the finish to the seasons were similar (I thought ours was the worst of the four but they are all reasonably close enough), the situations were not really similar at all due to the status/track record of the coach. You could argue like you have that you could give the new coach the benefit of the doubt more if you are so inclined.
So I don't think we really disagree all that much with regards to Wojo. The collapse and an otherwise show of slow but fairly steady progress wasn't enough to let him go in 2019. The Hausers' departure happened late enough in the cycle that even if that was your impetus for changing a coach, it was a bit late in the process to actually do it.
Thad Matta was dismissed on June 5.
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Either Moe, Curly, or Larry stand a better chance at being MU's next coach than any of the names mentioned in this thread, hey?
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Either Moe, Curly, or Larry stand a better chance at being MU's next coach than any of the names mentioned in this thread, hey?
Yep. Any of the names most of us actually would want to coach our team, anyway.
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Thad Matta was dismissed on June 5.
Those were pretty extreme and unusual circumstances.
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Thad Matta was dismissed on June 5.
Online it says it was mutual not a dismissal.
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Either Moe, Curly, or Larry stand a better chance at being MU's next coach than any of the names mentioned in this thread, hey?
I never would have guessed Buzz was a possibility to come back.
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Monday morning quarterbacking at its finest.
Anyway, here are a couple of comps.
The 2015-16 Baylor Bears. They were 17-4 at one point and ranked in the top 15. They finished the regular season 4-6, lost in the second round of the B12 tournament, and lost to a 12 seeded Yale in the first round. Scott Drew...not fired.
The 2010-11 Vanderbilt Commodores. They were ranked #18, tied for first in the SEC East, then lost three of four. Lost to 12 seeded Richmond in the first round. Kevin Stallings...not fired.
The 2013-14 Cincinnati Bearcats. They were ranked #7 in the country. Lost three of their last six. Lost in the second round of the AAC tournament. Lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament to 12 seeded Harvard. Mick Cronin...not fired.
There are numerous other examples.
The fact is that these types of collapses and losses are pretty regular happenings. Coaches don't get fired for them. And no...there was zero chance they were going to fire Wojo after than AND just because two players transferred.
Not Monday morning, I was saying it at the time and I wasn’t alone. Also you glossed over the most important part with all of these comps. The unraveling of a top 5 roster on the heels of that late season collapse was justifiably a fireable offense. Would it have been somewhat surprising? Sure. Would there have been basis for it? Definitely.
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Several fellow Scoopers beat me to it.
You're simply frustrated and angry, and you can't control your emotions enough to be pragmatic.
I highly recommend you channel your frustrations by organizing a petition or leading a boycott. Do something about it rather than make silly, illogical arguments on the interwebs.
You don’t know anything about me but I follow enough of your posts to find this incredibly rich
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The way 2019 ended, from the results to the Hausers, may have put Wojo into position where 2020 results would've either been fireable or at least put him on the hot seat. The pandemic delayed that. Every chance of dismissing him likely got pushed back a year. We don't have to like it, but it's the likely reality.
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Not Monday morning, I was saying it at the time and I wasn’t alone. Also you glossed over the most important part with all of these comps. The unraveling of a top 5 roster on the heels of that late season collapse was justifiably a fireable offense. Would it have been somewhat surprising? Sure. Would there have been basis for it? Definitely.
The team finished the season at 33 in KenPom. We added the 74th ranked recruiting class in the country. What in the world would've made us jump from 33 to a top 5 roster?
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Not Monday morning, I was saying it at the time and I wasn’t alone. Also you glossed over the most important part with all of these comps. The unraveling of a top 5 roster on the heels of that late season collapse was justifiably a fireable offense. Would it have been somewhat surprising? Sure. Would there have been basis for it? Definitely.
Actually, at the time the Hauser's left, you claimed it was "too late" to get rid of Wojo.
I only wish it’d happened sooner and maybe we could’ve moved on a replacement coach. Considering there’s no way the admin could’ve been completely blindsided by this maybe they should’ve proactively made a move. Now it’s too late.
Even funnier, after the Murray State loss, you said this:
I think the silent majority claim is being way overblown. While there’s been a ton of frustration vented about Wojo, very few have insisted he should be fired. Most, even the most vocally frustrated have acknowledged he deserves at least another year
Then after the brothers left, you changed your tune and said this:
The window for moving on from Wojo came and went and that opportunity was blown. Inexcusable
So you've been Monday morning quarterbacking this from the beginning. You didn't support getting rid of Wojo after the Murray State loss, and you claimed it was too late to fire him after the Hausers left.
And now you claim you supported firing him all along??? ::) ::) ::)
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The team finished the season at 33 in KenPom. We added the 74th ranked recruiting class in the country. What in the world would've made us jump from 33 to a top 5 roster?
ESPN did have us ranked at #2 for the next year before that happened. I think that was way too high, even with the Hausers.
If I remember right, even though we were winning, our KenPom rankings were still in the 20-30 area. I think we benefited from a fairly easy schedule. We weren’t exactly playing at the level of a top 10 team.
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23-4 justified top 10. Schedule justified 20-30 range. From the outside, everybody returning and adding Koby justified a way too early top 10. Mutiny torpedoed that.
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You call it mutiny. Others call it poor coaching leadership, which is par for Captain Mediocrity.
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You call it mutiny. Others call it poor coaching leadership, which is par for Captain Mediocrity.
tower, I think you have a groupie!!!
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Actually, at the time the Hauser's left, you claimed it was "too late" to get rid of Wojo.
Even funnier, after the Murray State loss, you said this:
Then after the brothers left, you changed your tune and said this:
So you've been Monday morning quarterbacking this from the beginning. You didn't support getting rid of Wojo after the Murray State loss, and you claimed it was too late to fire him after the Hausers left.
And now you claim you supported firing him all along??? ::) ::) ::)
You literally just substantiated my claim so thanks for doing the legwork. Along those lines the fact you bothered makes me kind of sad I’m not going to lie. There has to be a better way to spend your time.
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ESPN did have us ranked at #2 for the next year before that happened. I think that was way too high, even with the Hausers.
If I remember right, even though we were winning, our KenPom rankings were still in the 20-30 area. I think we benefited from a fairly easy schedule. We weren’t exactly playing at the level of a top 10 team.
In that ranking they made a whole paragraph about how the top recruits hadn't committed yet. We probably would've been preseason between 8 and 15.
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You literally just substantiated my claim so thanks for doing the legwork. Along those lines the fact you bothered makes me kind of sad I’m not going to lie. There has to be a better way to spend your time.
Keep spinning dude. Monday morning quarterbacking from the beginning.
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tower, I think you have a groupie!!!
Can hardly blame him.
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Can hardly blame him.
Speaking of Groupies, how is your Wojo Groupie Grope procgessing?
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Speaking of Groupies, how is your Wojo Groupie Grope procgessing?
Well willie just made it weird. Again....
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You can't pick your groupies.
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Monday morning quarterbacking at its finest.
Anyway, here are a couple of comps.
The 2015-16 Baylor Bears. They were 17-4 at one point and ranked in the top 15. They finished the regular season 4-6, lost in the second round of the B12 tournament, and lost to a 12 seeded Yale in the first round. Scott Drew...not fired.
The 2010-11 Vanderbilt Commodores. They were ranked #18, tied for first in the SEC East, then lost three of four. Lost to 12 seeded Richmond in the first round. Kevin Stallings...not fired.
The 2013-14 Cincinnati Bearcats. They were ranked #7 in the country. Lost three of their last six. Lost in the second round of the AAC tournament. Lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament to 12 seeded Harvard. Mick Cronin...not fired.
There are numerous other examples.
The fact is that these types of collapses and losses are pretty regular happenings. Coaches don't get fired for them. And no...there was zero chance they were going to fire Wojo after than AND just because two players transferred.
So Team A lost 6 of their last 10
Team B lost 3 of their last 4
Team C lost 3 of their last 6
MU lost 6 of their last 7
Teams A, B and C lost as 5 seeds to 12 seeds
MU as a 5 seed was blown out of the gym (by 19) by a 12 seed.
Additionally, MU lost their 2 of their 3 best players to transfer following the fiasco.
By any “comp” Marquette’s end of season collapse was the greatest. And their NCAA performance was the most embarrassing. And the roster fallout was the worst.
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So Team A lost 6 of their last 10
Team B lost 3 of their last 4
Team C lost 3 of their last 6
MU lost 6 of their last 7
Teams A, B and C lost as 5 seeds to 12 seeds
MU as a 5 seed was blown out of the gym (by 19) by a 12 seed.
Additionally, MU lost their 2 of their 3 best players to transfer following the fiasco.
By any “comp” Marquette’s end of season collapse was the greatest. And their NCAA performance was the most embarrassing. And the roster fallout was the worst.
Spin it how you want. Not expecting intellectual consistency from you since you’ve been biased from the start.
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You don’t know anything about me but I follow enough of your posts to find this incredibly rich
I know plenty about you. After every loss, or narrow win, or any other basketball result that you take as a personal affront, you come on here with your hair on fire.
As I said ... do something about it. Or just keep whining here. You be you.
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Spin it how you want. Not expecting intellectual consistency from you since you’ve been biased from the start.
You try to compare apples to pomegranates (IOW, spin).I out you and your BS with inconvenient truths and you accuse me of exactly what you just did.
It’s also a lie (not uncommon for you) that I have been biased toward Wojo “from the start”. I’ve applauded his successes and on more than a few occasions even fell for what is now (and has been for some time) obviously fool’s gold. You. OTOH, have been the most intellectually inconsistent person on this board re Wojo. Vocal Projo, vehement nojo and everything in between. The good news is that all your flip flopping has given you the chance to fight, insult and get personal with folks of all stripes. Which is nice.
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You try to compare apples to pomegranates (IOW, spin).I out you and your BS with inconvenient truths and you accuse me of exactly what you just did.
It’s also a lie (not uncommon for you) that I have been biased toward Wojo “from the start”. I’ve applauded his successes and on more than a few occasions even fell for what is now (and has been for some time) obviously fool’s gold. You. OTOH, have been the most intellectually inconsistent person on this board re Wojo. Vocal Projo, vehement nojo and everything in between. The good news is that all your flip flopping has given you the chance to fight, insult and get personal with folks of all stripes. Which is nice.
This is the biggest bunch of revisionist history bullsh*t. The fact is I listed comparables. Not exactables. You don’t like it? I don’t give AF.
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What I learned today: Nojos would be okay with Wojo had he lost his only two NCAA Tournament games by respectable margins.
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What I learned today: Nojos would be okay with Wojo had he lost his only two NCAA Tournament games by respectable margins.
I know. Complete revisionist history. To the point where one is basically denying what they actually posted.
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This is the biggest bunch of revisionist history bullsh*t. The fact is I listed comparables. Not exactables. You don’t like it? I don’t give AF.
“This”? LOL. You’re either a very bad liar or you’re ignorant of both of our histories.
“You don’t like it? I don’t give AF.” What are you, 12?
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“This”? LOL. You’re either a very bad liar or you’re ignorant of both of our histories.
“You don’t like it? I don’t give AF.” What are you, 12?
You had a post from May after Wojo was hired saying you liked what you have seen from him so far. So at least not from the start. Did you hop off the train earlier than most?
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You had a post from May after Wojo was hired saying you lied what you have seen from him so far. So at least not from the start. Did you hop off the train earlier than most?
No he's lying.
For as much as Lennys and Chicos used to go back and forth, both of them argue in fine details, shift goal posts and use strawmen constantly. They actually fight because they are just like one another. It's cute.
“You don’t like it? I don’t give AF.” What are you, 12?
I'm speaking to your level of cognitive ability. If you would like, I could limit myself to single syllable words or use pictures instead.
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You had a post from May after Wojo was hired saying you lied what you have seen from him so far. So at least not from the start. Did you hop off the train earlier than most?
Galway
Earlier than most? For sure. But I didn’t have as far to jump as I was never an all in projo. There were troubling signs early but there were hopeful moments, too. What finally did it for me was the way he handled Markus. Kid gloves, star treatment, play however you want. We had seen glimpses of it before with Carlino, Ellenson and to a lesser extent Rowsey. One man teams are a lot easier to stop in March than in November. Good coaches watch tape and figure us out. And when we have to go to plan B there isn’t one - only more of plan A.
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No he's lying.
Galway knows and has pointed to one of many examples that tell the truth. You’re not interested in the truth. You’d rather just make things up and try to trigger me (I’m Chico, lol). For your own well being maybe you need another sabbatical from Scoop.
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Galway knows and has pointed to one of many examples that tell the truth. You’re not interested in the truth. You’d rather just make things up and try to trigger me (I’m Chico, lol). For your own well being maybe you need another sabbatical from Scoop.
Not trying to trigger you. Calling you out for who you are - someone who engages in bad faith tactics and revisionist history.
The fact is, the end of season collapse by MU was not unprecedented by any meaningful measure. And while there were plenty of concerns about his coaching no doubt, it was nearly unanimous that he shouldn't be fired.
AND when the Hausers did leave, most people either said he shouldn't be fired or that it was too late to fire him anyway.
So people who say that they should have fired him after the Hausers left, most certainly didn't state that at the time. They are simply engaging in revisionist history.
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I can't recall, how soon did Wojo receive a contract extension after the Hausers announced they were transferring? I had no belief that Wojo was going to be fired, or that he should have been fired (timing among many reasons), but I seem to recall the school having a very quick announcement of an extension for him after their departures. From that, the school was very much doubling down on his tenure (and future success).
The Hauser fiasco, at the time and in retrospect, was a major red flag. Not fire-able by itself, but definitely something that should have opened a lot of eyes to give question and concern to the long-term sustainability of the program.
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I can't recall, how soon did Wojo receive a contract extension after the Hausers announced they were transferring? I had no belief that Wojo was going to be fired, or that he should have been fired (timing among many reasons), but I seem to recall the school having a very quick announcement of an extension for him after their departures. From that, the school was very much doubling down on his tenure (and future success).
The Hauser fiasco, at the time and in retrospect, was a major red flag. Not fire-able by itself, but definitely something that should have opened a lot of eyes to give question and concern to the long-term sustainability of the program.
I agree on your second paragraph. *In retrospect* it was a major red flag that should have caused more questions to be asked.
However on the contract extension, AE had a good take on it at the time and it makes sense when you read it now.
https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2019/5/7/18536232/marquette-golden-eagles-basketball-head-coach-steve-wojciechowski-contract-extension
"By the time that we passed from April into May, it was clearly beyond a shadow of a doubt that neither the losses in six of the final seven games of the 2018-19 season nor the Hauser brothers lighting their basketball futures on fire in order to get away from Marquette was going to cost Wojciechowski his job. Quite honestly, that’s not surprising. I mean, if they had pulled the trigger, I wouldn’t have been surprised either, but facts are facts: When a team goes 24-10 and makes the NCAA tournament, it’s a poor financial decision to eat three seasons worth of buyout money in order to make the coach go away, no matter what else is happening.
So if Marquette is going to send Wojciechowski out to coach for the 2019-20 season, the fact of the matter is that they had to also give him a contract extension that, from an on-court results perspective, he does not deserve.
Right now, Wojciechowski and his assistants are out on the recruiting paths, working on bringing in high school prospects to start in the fall of 2020. Class of 2020 recruits are eligible to sign national letters of intent this November, so this spring and summer is a crucial time for that recruiting class. Without an extension, Wojciechowski’s contract was set to expire at the end of those prospects’ sophomore season. In a manner of speaking, in terms of recruiting, Wojciechowski’s contract had already expired. Quite honestly, that’s a bit of a sticky wicket when it comes to recruiting, and perhaps more importantly, when it comes to dealing with negative recruiting from other teams. “Hey, you don’t want to go there, their coach is only signed to be there through your sophomore year, my contract goes through the year after you graduate.” That kind of thing.
If Marquette believes that Steve Wojciechowski is the right coach for this program and the future of it as well, then he needed an extension to be able to bring in the recruiting class he needs to continue forward. That’s the extension he got: Two more years, enough to tell Class of 2020 prospects that he’ll be there when they’re done with college. That’s it. No more, no less."
I get it. People don't like to see others rewarded when they haven't done a great job. But that's college sports in a nutshell.
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I think AE's take remains valid. Hausers leaving WAS a huge red flag, the impact of which was mitigated by the way they handled things. (Although I still want to see "the letter," which I think diverted a lot of attention -- and may be a great false flag story). No real good choices were available, and given the facts, mismanagement wasn't enough to reboot the whole program.
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I was a very big Nate Oats proponent in the 2019 cycle had Wojo gone the rumored UNLV/VA Tech route after the Hauser debacle. At the same time, I was also skeptical of Porter Moser, since if you look at his track record on the surface, he seemed to be a flash in the pan.
However, I would embrace him with open arms now should the opportunity arise.
The thing I think Wojo suffers from the most is he only had experience in one system prior to MU, both as a player and a coach. On top of that, he had never truly experienced failure as a coach. He seems to be trying to bang a square peg (the Duke superstar system) into a round hole (need to get more from the whole than the sum of the parts at MU).
Again, I loved that Loyola run in 2018, loved how the guys seemed to play with one brain, loved how they cut without the ball, and loved how they defended. But I looked at Moser's track record heading into that and thought it was a fun fluke. Using this year's success as an additional data point, what seems obvious to me is that it has "clicked" for him, and the 2018 run was not a fluke.
I see it referenced often here that it takes a long time for some coaches to figure it out. And I think that's true! But I also think diversity of experience, and diversity of coaching mentors plays a big factor.
Moser has been an assistant at 5 different programs (Creighton, Texas A&M, UWM, Arkansas-Little Rock, and SLU). He has been an assistant under 5 different head coaches (Tony Barone, Wimp Sanderson, Marquette alum Ric Cobb, Sidney Moncrief, and Marquette alum Rick Majerus - more on that later). He has been a head coach at 3 different programs (Arkansas Little-Rock, Illinois State, Loyola).
His first 2 head coaching stops were underwhelming to put it mildly. He spent 3 years on a barely above .500 in conference Arkansas Little-Rock before leaving for Illinois State, where he never finished above .500 in conference once in four years and had a cumulative conference winning percentage of 31%. Gross, right?
To me, the turning point was clearly the next step he took after that. He went to become an assistant under Rick Majerus at SLU, where he was also associate head coach for his last 3 years there, being mentored by a savant like Majerus. I've watched a few games this year and they are a very pleasing team to the eye on top of the success they're having. They play Majerus type basketball, where everyone moves as if with one brain, and the team is significantly more than the sum of its parts. The offense generates excellent looks, and the defense is high quality top to bottom. It's clear that the whole team has buy-in. Those types of squads are my favorite part of following college hoops. After a rough start to his Loyola tenure, he has the program cooking. The past 4 years they have gone 15-3, 12-6, 13-5, and now 8-1 in conference play. He clearly knows how to coach in tournament environments (4-0 in CBI - yes, I know, CBI - and 4-1 in NCAA tourney). His teams don't shrink in big moments, they appear to relish them.
He has clearly learned from past failures and has layered in wrinkles of his diverse coaching experience with a huge hat tip to MU legend Rick Majerus. He has extensive Jesuit experience (Creighton, SLU, Loyola), is a Chicago native, and would be a perfect fit at MU from the standpoint of the admin's focus on quality character, his midwest roots, and most of all the ability to get more out of a team than the talent level on the roster. At age 52 I feel like he'd be here until the day he retired (potentially 15+ years) while stacking up successful seasons along the way.
If Wojo & MU end up parting ways at the end of this season for one reason or another, put me officially in the Porter Moser camp (something I never thought I'd say 2-3 years ago).
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I know plenty about you. After every loss, or narrow win, or any other basketball result that you take as a personal affront, you come on here with your hair on fire.
As I said ... do something about it. Or just keep whining here. You be you.
Listen, I know you spend much of your time engaging in spats on here with the emotional control of a teenybopper, but it’s time you move on because I’m not interested.
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I was a very big Nate Oats proponent in the 2019 cycle had Wojo gone the rumored UNLV/VA Tech route after the Hauser debacle. At the same time, I was also skeptical of Porter Moser, since if you look at his track record on the surface, he seemed to be a flash in the pan.
However, I would embrace him with open arms now should the opportunity arise.
The thing I think Wojo suffers from the most is he only had experience in one system prior to MU, both as a player and a coach. On top of that, he had never truly experienced failure as a coach. He seems to be trying to bang a square peg (the Duke superstar system) into a round hole (need to get more from the whole than the sum of the parts at MU).
Again, I loved that Loyola run in 2018, loved how the guys seemed to play with one brain, loved how they cut without the ball, and loved how they defended. But I looked at Moser's track record heading into that and thought it was a fun fluke. Using this year's success as an additional data point, what seems obvious to me is that it has "clicked" for him, and the 2018 run was not a fluke.
I see it referenced often here that it takes a long time for some coaches to figure it out. And I think that's true! But I also think diversity of experience, and diversity of coaching mentors plays a big factor.
Moser has been an assistant at 5 different programs (Creighton, Texas A&M, UWM, Arkansas-Little Rock, and SLU). He has been an assistant under 5 different head coaches (Tony Barone, Wimp Sanderson, Marquette alum Ric Cobb, Sidney Moncrief, and Marquette alum Rick Majerus - more on that later). He has been a head coach at 3 different programs (Arkansas Little-Rock, Illinois State, Loyola).
His first 2 head coaching stops were underwhelming to put it mildly. He spent 3 years on a barely above .500 in conference Arkansas Little-Rock before leaving for Illinois State, where he never finished above .500 in conference once in four years and had a cumulative conference winning percentage of 31%. Gross, right?
To me, the turning point was clearly the next step he took after that. He went to become an assistant under Rick Majerus at SLU, where he was also associate head coach for his last 3 years there, being mentored by a savant like Majerus. I've watched a few games this year and they are a very pleasing team to the eye on top of the success they're having. They play Majerus type basketball, where everyone moves as if with one brain, and the team is significantly more than the sum of its parts. The offense generates excellent looks, and the defense is high quality top to bottom. It's clear that the whole team has buy-in. Those types of squads are my favorite part of following college hoops. After a rough start to his Loyola tenure, he has the program cooking. The past 4 years they have gone 15-3, 12-6, 13-5, and now 8-1 in conference play. He clearly knows how to coach in tournament environments (4-0 in CBI - yes, I know, CBI - and 4-1 in NCAA tourney). His teams don't shrink in big moments, they appear to relish them.
He has clearly learned from past failures and has layered in wrinkles of his diverse coaching experience with a huge hat tip to MU legend Rick Majerus. He has extensive Jesuit experience (Creighton, SLU, Loyola), is a Chicago native, and would be a perfect fit at MU from the standpoint of the admin's focus on quality character, his midwest roots, and most of all the ability to get more out of a team than the talent level on the roster. At age 52 I feel like he'd be here until the day he retired (potentially 15+ years) while stacking up successful seasons along the way.
If Wojo & MU end up parting ways at the end of this season for one reason or another, put me officially in the Porter Moser camp (something I never thought I'd say 2-3 years ago).
It'll be very difficult for Moser to be pried away from the Chicago area. Honestly, I feel like a job like Marquette would be one of the few that could realistically get him out. He is very proud of his Jesuit education. He absolutely loves to tell Rick stories. He is from the area here in Chicago. Moser, IMO, gets an unfair critique from many on this board because of his "flash in the pan" year at Loyola, and his struggles at ISU. He has undeniably transformed Loyola into a Wichita State-lite program (consistent contender to win the league each year), and has been a great advocate for the program and university. He rebuffed interest from St. John's because he didn't want to move.
In a weird way, and as you alluded to with his coaching experience, Moser is very much like Buzz. He is quirky, has a diverse coaching program at many different programs and he wins. If the job became open, I have long theorized he would be one of the top candidates that the school would look at. Wardle is another opt-mentioned name, but Moser and the Ramblers just swept Bradley this weekend. Moser's Loyola teams play tough and are very much a team with a winning philosophy and strategy.
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I was a very big Nate Oats proponent in the 2019 cycle had Wojo gone the rumored UNLV/VA Tech route after the Hauser debacle. At the same time, I was also skeptical of Porter Moser, since if you look at his track record on the surface, he seemed to be a flash in the pan.
However, I would embrace him with open arms now should the opportunity arise.
The thing I think Wojo suffers from the most is he only had experience in one system prior to MU, both as a player and a coach. On top of that, he had never truly experienced failure as a coach. He seems to be trying to bang a square peg (the Duke superstar system) into a round hole (need to get more from the whole than the sum of the parts at MU).
Again, I loved that Loyola run in 2018, loved how the guys seemed to play with one brain, loved how they cut without the ball, and loved how they defended. But I looked at Moser's track record heading into that and thought it was a fun fluke. Using this year's success as an additional data point, what seems obvious to me is that it has "clicked" for him, and the 2018 run was not a fluke.
I see it referenced often here that it takes a long time for some coaches to figure it out. And I think that's true! But I also think diversity of experience, and diversity of coaching mentors plays a big factor.
Moser has been an assistant at 5 different programs (Creighton, Texas A&M, UWM, Arkansas-Little Rock, and SLU). He has been an assistant under 5 different head coaches (Tony Barone, Wimp Sanderson, Marquette alum Ric Cobb, Sidney Moncrief, and Marquette alum Rick Majerus - more on that later). He has been a head coach at 3 different programs (Arkansas Little-Rock, Illinois State, Loyola).
His first 2 head coaching stops were underwhelming to put it mildly. He spent 3 years on a barely above .500 in conference Arkansas Little-Rock before leaving for Illinois State, where he never finished above .500 in conference once in four years and had a cumulative conference winning percentage of 31%. Gross, right?
To me, the turning point was clearly the next step he took after that. He went to become an assistant under Rick Majerus at SLU, where he was also associate head coach for his last 3 years there, being mentored by a savant like Majerus. I've watched a few games this year and they are a very pleasing team to the eye on top of the success they're having. They play Majerus type basketball, where everyone moves as if with one brain, and the team is significantly more than the sum of its parts. The offense generates excellent looks, and the defense is high quality top to bottom. It's clear that the whole team has buy-in. Those types of squads are my favorite part of following college hoops. After a rough start to his Loyola tenure, he has the program cooking. The past 4 years they have gone 15-3, 12-6, 13-5, and now 8-1 in conference play. He clearly knows how to coach in tournament environments (4-0 in CBI - yes, I know, CBI - and 4-1 in NCAA tourney). His teams don't shrink in big moments, they appear to relish them.
He has clearly learned from past failures and has layered in wrinkles of his diverse coaching experience with a huge hat tip to MU legend Rick Majerus. He has extensive Jesuit experience (Creighton, SLU, Loyola), is a Chicago native, and would be a perfect fit at MU from the standpoint of the admin's focus on quality character, his midwest roots, and most of all the ability to get more out of a team than the talent level on the roster. At age 52 I feel like he'd be here until the day he retired (potentially 15+ years) while stacking up successful seasons along the way.
If Wojo & MU end up parting ways at the end of this season for one reason or another, put me officially in the Porter Moser camp (something I never thought I'd say 2-3 years ago).
I want to be clear that I am not advocating for either Moser or Brian Wardle in this post. What I don't understand are the "some" people here that mention Wardle's name on a list of candidates without mentioning Moser. If they excluded or included both, I would understand.
In the same league overlapping a similar time frame...
Moser is in his 8th season in the MVC at Loyola Chicago. Wardle is in his 6th season in the MVC at Bradley.
Moser, in 7 completed MVC seasons, two more than Wardle, has Two Regular Season MVC League Titles, a 2nd place finish, and a Final Four. (They are currently 8-1 in the MVC this year with a sweep over Bradley)
Wardle in 5 completed MVC seasons has finished worse than Loyola Chicago every year he's been in the league. He has one top four league finish, one season with a winning league record. (Bradley is 3-4 thus far this season in the MVC)
(Wardle has two less MVC seasons than Moser.)
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The last couple posts in this thread have sold me on the idea of Moser as a potential candidate, or at least made me far more open to him. I was definitely among those "flash in the pan" people, but really, why are we faulting the guy for making a Final Four? He had a good, experienced team, he coached them up, and he totally delivered. What was he supposed to do, *not* make the Final Four?
It's like the thing where people say Wojo is Crean without Wade. What a ridiculous statement, a complete pile of rubbish. Crean *did* have Wade, and he recruited a couple other really good players to complement him, and he delivered a program-altering season when the time came. Is the coach at Arkansas Pine-Bluff Wojo without Markus?
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It's like the thing where people say Wojo is Crean without Wade. What a ridiculous statement, a complete pile of rubbish. Crean *did* have Wade, and he recruited a couple other really good players to complement him, and he delivered a program-altering season when the time came. Is the coach at Arkansas Pine-Bluff Wojo without Markus?
I have said that previously not to minimize Crean's accomplishments or anything like that. I say that because had he not recruited Wade, he would have a pretty blah resume like Wojo has. But of course he deserves credit for recruiting him, landing him and coaching him.
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Crean deserves all the credit for Wade. His other 7 years were pedestrian. Comparing Wojo to Crean without Wade is not a compliment.
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The last couple posts in this thread have sold me on the idea of Moser as a potential candidate, or at least made me far more open to him. I was definitely among those "flash in the pan" people, but really, why are we faulting the guy for making a Final Four? He had a good, experienced team, he coached them up, and he totally delivered. What was he supposed to do, *not* make the Final Four?
It's like the thing where people say Wojo is Crean without Wade. What a ridiculous statement, a complete pile of rubbish. Crean *did* have Wade, and he recruited a couple other really good players to complement him, and he delivered a program-altering season when the time came. Is the coach at Arkansas Pine-Bluff Wojo without Markus?
I think the Wojo without Wade comp is because in all the years (even 1 of 2 with Wade) he really looked average despite bringing in MU Mount Rushmore guys. I mean Deiner and Novak are considered an all time greats both have two NCAAs and 2 NITs to their names. The "3 amigos" were fantastic players but did Crean do anything in three years with them? Nope. And that's giving Crean a pass for the years prior to Wade.
And you're right Crean absolutely deserves credit for getting Wade but it's not like he knew he was getting one of the greatest players ever (not just at MU).
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Crean won one NCAA tourney game without Wade.
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Crean won one NCAA tourney game without Wade.
And that was Kentucky where Buzz game planned versus his old boss Billy G.
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Listen, I know you spend much of your time engaging in spats on here with the emotional control of a teenybopper, but it’s time you move on because I’m not interested.
Listen, I wasn't even talking to you in this thread. On 1/25/21 at 4:40:59, you were the one who engaged me in a "spat," and your take was that NoJos should have been more emotional.
Just because you are a frustrated fan, you don't need to project your insecurities and emotions onto others.
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And it took James, Jerel, Wes, and Lazar as a core for him to do it.
If you go back to scoop from that era, there were complaints about inability to recruit bigs, inability to string together recruiting classes, in game adjustments consisting of exhorting his team to play harder and clapping, inability to attack a zone, having a playbook full of a thousand plays but doing the same thing over and over again.
And me defending him.
I wasn't blind to Crean's problems, nor am I blind to Wojo's.
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And that was Kentucky where Buzz game planned versus his old boss Billy G.
And it was his last win at Marquette.
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So the thread is about potential coaching options. Someone threw out Porter Moser. Is there anyone that thinks Moser at MU would result in MU doing any worse than Wojo in his 6 years in regards to NCAA appearance, NCAA wins, BEAST finishes, and integrity of the program? He seems to run a clean program as Wojo does. I'll take my chances that he can be just as successful, and likely more successful, than Wojo. I would also argue that after 6 years of Wojo running MU...Porter has the bigger upside.
I also think we need to entertain the idea that if Wojo has the success we would like to see he likely lands back at Duke in the not so distant future. Seems crazy to go through these growth spurts with a coach that is likely to leave if successful. I understand that's the case with all coaches and that Wojo could surprise us and stay...but that's my take. Now if we take a guy like Wojo and he regularly has us in the NCAA tourney and top 1/2 of the BEAST and then leaves...well he earned his paycheck while he was here. We're paying a lot to watch a coach grow (if we even see that) with no assurance of a return on that investment.
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I think the whole "Wojo to Duke" thing died and was buried a couple of years ago. The only way that conceivably happens is if Duke gets a ton of people turning them down because they don't want to follow Coach K.
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And it was his last win at Marquette.
I'm over Crean's exit, and was genuinely happy to see him back for the 100th anniversary.
But that Stanford game. My God. He made Wojo look like a nimble in-game tactician.
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Would I be "open" to Moser? Sure.
There are other names I think I'd prefer, but maybe Moser is more "gettable."
Or maybe he isn't. Maybe he LOVES it at Loyola and simply doesn't want to leave, the way McKillop is happy at Davidson, Few is happy at Gonzaga, Wright is happy at Nova.
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I also think we need to entertain the idea that if Wojo has the success we would like to see he likely lands back at Duke in the not so distant future.
The "Wojo to Duke" ship has sailed. Marquette was his audition for the Duke job, and he's failed it with flying colors. He will never be their head coach now, and you can be sure that had he gotten our program rolling, he'd have left us high and dry and returned to his alma mater the moment Coach K retired. Well, fook him and the horse he rode in on, and the cavalry behind it, hey?
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Mark Few is a great coach, deserving of many accolades over his 20 seasons as Head Coach at Gonzaga. Some of his accomplishments there have been staggering. There is one little thing that has been interesting with him to me.
Multiple times, as a double digit NCAA seed, he's had Sweet 16 teams, including a few early at Gonzaga. There have been other strong regular season seeded teams that perhaps lost in the first or second round. He's been there a long time, so he's had a variety of things in his career there.
I bring this up because sometimes people will remember your NCAA Tourney success, and other times they will remember your Regular Season success. And sometimes they will remember both, or something else. But, all types of success count as success.
Six Sweet 16's. Three were as a double digit NCAA seed. Two of these double digit seeded Sweet 16 teams, were in his first two seasons at Gonzaga. Those were his best NCAA seasons until his seventh season. Another Sweet 16 team. Who did they defeat? A 14 and 16 seeded teams. The next Sweet 16 came in his tenth season. Who did they defeat? A 13 and 12 seeded teams.
So, in Mark Few's first ten seasons at Gonzaga, his teams either made the Sweet 16 as a double digit seeded team, or his teams defeated only double digit seeded teams to get there.
Go six more seasons later to their first Elite 8 team. You guessed it. They defeated three double digit seeds to get there. The next year? Gonzaga was the double digit seeded Sweet 16 team. In year 17, Gonzaga finally had a team in which they made the NCAA 2nd weekend by being both a non double digit NCAA seed, and, defeating at least one non double digit NCAA seeded team. That of course was their number one seeded National Runner Up Team.
And, not many people care when they were double digit seeded NCAA teams when they had NCAA success. Not many people care when they only defeated double digit NCAA teams. They won. That's all that matters.
Regular Season, NCAA's, vs rivals, conference tourney, etc...you check as many boxes as you can annually.
Tom Crean checked a Final Four box. Sure MU almost lost to Holy Cross (4 point win) and Mizzou (double OT) early in the tourney. What matters is MU made the Final Four and won those games.
Buzz Williams checked an Elite 8 box. Sure MU needed a buzzer beater to get past Davidson early in the tourney. What matters is MU won and and made the Elite 8.
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Listen, I wasn't even talking to you in this thread. On 1/25/21 at 4:40:59, you were the one who engaged me in a "spat," and your take was that NoJos should have been more emotional.
Just because you are a frustrated fan, you don't need to project your insecurities and emotions onto others.
Do you have difficulty with instruction? Move on. You’re annoying.
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I think the whole "Wojo to Duke" thing died and was buried a couple of years ago. The only way that conceivably happens is if Duke gets a ton of people turning them down because they don't want to follow Coach K.
wojo has buzz like success at MU over the next 5 years and i'm not sure it's a crazy thought. i think wojo having buzz like success is a crazy idea...but...
my point with moser was simply that his name was thrown out. there are search firms far better at this game than i am...but the point is...there are plenty of candidates that will likely give us what wojo has over the last 6 years by the standards i stated (BEAST finish, NCAA appearance and wins). if the notion is that MU is allowing him to grow and we're going to have the next jay wright/mark few on our hands; 1) i don't see wojo's growth leading to such 2) i don't see him staying. MU shouldn't be a place where a coach comes to learn to coach for six friggin years. it wasn't for TC and it wasn't for Buzz and they had similar or less coaching experience.
at this point i don't give a sh1t who they find to replace him...i think any reputable search will result in a candidate that at worst gives us as many wins in the next 5 years as wojo will and at best gets us to buzz like success.
the only hope i have for wojo is that if the hausers wouldn't have left they would have had an impressive team last year, and if we give wojo a pass on those transfers he can field a team like that every 3-4 years. that said, i'm not convinced they would have been as good as they were projected to be if the hausers would have stayed due to coaching.
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Would I be "open" to Moser? Sure.
There are other names I think I'd prefer, but maybe Moser is more "gettable."
Or maybe he isn't. Maybe he LOVES it at Loyola and simply doesn't want to leave, the way McKillop is happy at Davidson, Few is happy at Gonzaga, Wright is happy at Nova.
Agree. I would still make Oats the first call. But I think that ship has sailed. He'll either build a beast at Bama and get massive raises in perpetuity, or be the next head coach at a blue blood when one of those open (or both). I think Moser is the best realistic option.
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I do wonder if AD Scholl, and a few others in the University, pay attention to likely replacements situations. Never want to be caught off-guard, or not have any plan for the future. Cords could be tough nut at times, but I always felt he had a good feel for the role and knew when things were changing, or needed to be changed.
I'm officially a lean towards (55-60%) moving on from Wojo, but I could be pulled back with a strong finish this year.
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Do you have difficulty with instruction? Move on. You’re annoying.
I don't take "instructions" from people who have not earned respect. But it is amusing that the person who started the "spat" (one you falsely accused me of starting) now wants to make the rules for the end of it. Says a lot about the intellectual dishonesty with which you debate.
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wojo has buzz like success at MU over the next 5 years and i'm not sure it's a crazy thought. i think wojo having buzz like success is a crazy idea...but...
my point with moser was simply that his name was thrown out. there are search firms far better at this game than i am...but the point is...there are plenty of candidates that will likely give us what wojo has over the last 6 years by the standards i stated (BEAST finish, NCAA appearance and wins). if the notion is that MU is allowing him to grow and we're going to have the next jay wright/mark few on our hands; 1) i don't see wojo's growth leading to such 2) i don't see him staying. MU shouldn't be a place where a coach comes to learn to coach for six friggin years. it wasn't for TC and it wasn't for Buzz and they had similar or less coaching experience.
at this point i don't give a sh1t who they find to replace him...i think any reputable search will result in a candidate that at worst gives us as many wins in the next 5 years as wojo will and at best gets us to buzz like success.
the only hope i have for wojo is that if the hausers wouldn't have left they would have had an impressive team last year, and if we give wojo a pass on those transfers he can field a team like that every 3-4 years. that said, i'm not convinced they would have been as good as they were projected to be if the hausers would have stayed due to coaching.
I think the big problem is that what we are seeing this year is the same thing we have seen before. Early success, with some big wins in the non conference season, followed by a late season collapse.
It's a trend. IMO its shows he's not growing as a coach. Hell, maybe he will turn it around this year and make a S16 run. I think that is doubtful however.
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I do wonder if AD Scholl, and a few others in the University, pay attention to likely replacements situations. Never want to be caught off-guard, or not have any plan for the future. Cords could be tough nut at times, but I always felt he had a good feel for the role and knew when things were changing, or needed to be changed.
I'm officially a lean towards (55-60%) moving on from Wojo, but I could be pulled back with a strong finish this year.
Scholl has done numerous coaching searches while at MU. And if those searches tell you something, its that he casts a pretty wide net. I have no doubt that he has a good understanding of who he would look to if Wojo leaves.
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Not trying to trigger you. Calling you out for who you are - someone who engages in bad faith tactics and revisionist history.
The fact is, the end of season collapse by MU was not unprecedented by any meaningful measure. And while there were plenty of concerns about his coaching no doubt, it was nearly unanimous that he shouldn't be fired.
AND when the Hausers did leave, most people either said he shouldn't be fired or that it was too late to fire him anyway.
So people who say that they should have fired him after the Hausers left, most certainly didn't state that at the time. They are simply engaging in revisionist history.
Except I never said (then or now) that Wojo should have been fired after Collapse I or the Hausers leaving. Claiming I did or am now is revisionist history and an untruth. All I pointed out was that (for example) claiming that a team that finishes 3-3 and loses to a 12 seed is comparable to a team that finishes 1-6, gets beat by 19 by a 12 seed and immediately has 2 of their 3 best players transfer was BS. And it is.
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Scholl has done numerous coaching searches while at MU. And if those searches tell you something, its that he casts a pretty wide net. I have no doubt that he has a good understanding of who he would look to if Wojo leaves.
No doubt. I can't believe there is an AD that doesn't have a list. Literally, a coach could drop dead at any moment.
I'm struggling with Wojo...feel like anyone on Scholl's list likely has a better upside and I'm not concerned with downside given that I don't care for the program where it stands 6 yesrs in.
Though I'm turning the game on now and praying I'm wrong because I like Wojo and our guys a whole lot as people.
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I do wonder if AD Scholl, and a few others in the University, pay attention to likely replacements situations. Never want to be caught off-guard, or not have any plan for the future. Cords could be tough nut at times, but I always felt he had a good feel for the role and knew when things were changing, or needed to be changed.
I'm officially a lean towards (55-60%) moving on from Wojo, but I could be pulled back with a strong finish this year.
Tonight's game is pulling me somewhere, but it ain't good.
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Outside the box idea: Ben McCollum From Northwest Missouri State
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Outside the box idea: Ben McCollum From Northwest Missouri State
Probably should cut his teeth at a mid major place first. D2 is a step above D3, but it is still an entire staircase below D1. Maybe when MU hires the Drake coach, he could start there!
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Outside the box idea: Ben McCollum From Northwest Missouri State
Honest question, are there any examples of a P6 program hiring a non-D1 coach and it working out? All I can think of is Kim Anderson failing at Mizzou.
There are lots of examples of coaches who started coaching D2 or D3 who ended up being good P6 coaches, but they all had low or mid-major stops in-between.
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Honest question, are there any examples of a P6 program hiring a non-D1 coach and it working out? All I can think of is Kim Anderson failing at Mizzou.
There are lots of examples of coaches who started coaching D2 or D3 who ended up being good P6 coaches, but they all had low or mid-major stops in-between.
John Wooden. :)
But seriously, coaches like Dick Bennett, Bo Ryan and Bruce Pearl made stops at low major schools first. Right to P6 is hard.
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Honest question, are there any examples of a P6 program hiring a non-D1 coach and it working out? All I can think of is Kim Anderson failing at Mizzou.
There are lots of examples of coaches who started coaching D2 or D3 who ended up being good P6 coaches, but they all had low or mid-major stops in-between.
I would generally agree going from D2 to Power 5 is difficult. I do like to examine every individual situation differently, as I believe situations vary.
Kim Anderson was a unique situation. He was 58 years old when hired. He inherited a mess, investigations, sanctions, and he mostly tried to piece together things, patchwork things in his 3 seasons, losing or dismissing (depends) 13 scholarship players during that time.
He hadn't seen a D-1 sideline in 12 seasons prior. He was a successful long time Mizzou assistant in the 90's and 80's, also stopping at Baylor. And of course he is a former Big 8 Player of The Year at Mizzou. He had always wanted the Mizzou job.
He wasn't going to do the super quick, massive turn around that few coaches can do for a variety of reasons. He certainly knows ball, can coach ball, as evidence of his winning a National Title in D2, National Coach of The Year etc...but that wasn't going to work out for him or the school at that time. Each situation is different and unique.
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So....Kim Anderson failed at Mizzou but there was good reason for it.
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Chris Beard is probably the closest having coached one year at UALR after two years at Angelo State. Real gutsy hire but hard to get someone of quality to Lubbock.
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So....Kim Anderson failed at Mizzou but there was good reason for it.
I just like to look at each situation for itself. A different example on the same topic may produce a different explanation. Kim Anderson wasn't successful in his three seasons as Head Coach at Mizzou, after very successful runs as a player and assistant there. There were reasons for it, both within his control, and out of his control.
The time to take a chance on Kim Anderson was many years prior, if they were ever going to do it.
But fear not "Kim Fans", because it may not be the last time Mizzou ever hires a Men's Hoops Head Coach named Kim. The stars could align down the road for Kimmie English.
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He's probably been mentioned here, but I'd be quite happy with Nico Medved at Colorado State. He has CSU at 12-3 with wins at Utah State, San Diego State, and at home against Boise State. He took over a program in disarray just three years ago. He went 17-17 in one year at Drake, taking over a 7-24 program that was picked last in the pre-season polls (finishing fourth). Good success at Furman too.
Plus, Steve Cottingham is his sport administrator at Colorado State. Er, maybe that's not a good thing.
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Honest question, are there any examples of a P6 program hiring a non-D1 coach and it working out? All I can think of is Kim Anderson failing at Mizzou.
There are lots of examples of coaches who started coaching D2 or D3 who ended up being good P6 coaches, but they all had low or mid-major stops in-between.
Not just the low major stops, but Pearl, Bo Ryan, Chris Beard...all had stints as D1 assistants before being HCs at lower levels. McCollum hasn’t sniffed a D1 sideline period. Player, GA, assistant, etc...
He’s clearly a good coach and likely is excellent with Xs and Os, but he’d be completely over his head IMO
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Ummm...Al McGuire.
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Would never make it today. Three point line, shot clock, would be in trouble for fighting with players. Everybody is mining what used to be his fertile recruiting areas. Arguing with administration. Flirtations with the NBA. Terrible record at a basketball backwater. fuggedaboutit
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Would never make it today. Three point line, shot clock, would be in trouble for fighting with players. Everybody is mining what used to be his fertile recruiting areas. Arguing with administration. Flirtations with the NBA. Terrible record at a basketball backwater. fuggedaboutit
NBA experience: Check
Recruiting network: Check.
Teacher: Check
Assistant College Coach: Check
Successful first stint as head coach: Check (109-63, 5 post-seasons, got NYC kids to attend in the South)
Understood Role as Program leader: Check
School fit: Catholic, blue collar
Tell me Al wasn’t more qualified than Mullin or Ewing? Now, would MU’s current Admin hire him is really the question. That, sir, is the issue.
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Would never make it today. Three point line, shot clock, would be in trouble for fighting with players. Everybody is mining what used to be his fertile recruiting areas. Arguing with administration. Flirtations with the NBA. Terrible record at a basketball backwater. fuggedaboutit
Yep. Lovell, the BOT and several of Scoop’s experts would choose Wojo over him every time. Who wouldn’t want to be Duke North?
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Any coaching hire is a crap shoot. Al turned out to be a genius for his time. Wojo hasn't.
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Who is the Winthrop Coach?
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Any coaching hire is a crap shoot. Al turned out to be a genius for his time. Wojo hasn't.
You’re 100% right, Tower. But here’s the thing...
Both Al and Wojo got the job because they “blew away the room” when they interviewed. I get it with Al. As Dick Enberg said, he “owned every room he walked into”. I’m sure he blew away any room anytime he wanted to. Can you imagine Wojo ever blowing away any room? Has he said or done anything in 7 years that indicate he has that in him? Not to me. Tells you something about the people who were in that room.
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Who is the Winthrop Coach?
Pat Kelsey. Played for Skip Prosser. Coached with Skip Prosser and Chris Mack.
He has Winthrop top 3 in their league for the 8th straight year. And they are on their way to a possible 4th league title in those 8 seasons. (He's been there nine.) He accepted the UMass Head Coaching position in 2017 and changed his mind at the last minute.
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Pat Kelsey would be a great hire.
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You’re 100% right, Tower. But here’s the thing...
Both Al and Wojo got the job because they “blew away the room” when they interviewed. I get it with Al. As Dick Enberg said, he “owned every room he walked into”. I’m sure he blew away any room anytime he wanted to. Can you imagine Wojo ever blowing away any room? Has he said or done anything in 7 years that indicate he has that in him? Not to me. Tells you something about the people who were in that room.
Must have been a very boring room...
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Pat Kelsey. Played for Skip Prosser. Coached with Skip Prosser and Chris Mack.
He has Winthrop top 3 in their league for the 8th straight year. And they are on their way to a possible 4th league title in those 8 seasons. (He's been there nine.) He accepted the UMass Head Coaching position in 2017 and changed his mind at the last minute.
Good coach who has been successful at Winthrop, but from what I hear, he’s got kind of a crap reputation in coaching circles after the UMASS and then NKU situations, changing his mind, moving goalposts into discussions, etc... Hes been a good consistent coach for some time, at a school with a low (sub $300K) salary in a bad conference. He should be a hot name annually, But he’s just not, the situations at those schools likely have something to do with it
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You’re 100% right, Tower. But here’s the thing...
Both Al and Wojo got the job because they “blew away the room” when they interviewed. I get it with Al. As Dick Enberg said, he “owned every room he walked into”. I’m sure he blew away any room anytime he wanted to. Can you imagine Wojo ever blowing away any room? Has he said or done anything in 7 years that indicate he has that in him? Not to me. Tells you something about the people who were in that room.
I think Wojo's interview had less to do with him and more to do with the fact that not only was he the anti-Buzz in every sense, but the stench of Cuonzo's interview a few days prior still lingered. As George Costanza said, it was the "perfect combination of Mountain Dew and mozzarella."
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You’re 100% right, Tower. But here’s the thing...
Both Al and Wojo got the job because they “blew away the room” when they interviewed. I get it with Al. As Dick Enberg said, he “owned every room he walked into”. I’m sure he blew away any room anytime he wanted to. Can you imagine Wojo ever blowing away any room? Has he said or done anything in 7 years that indicate he has that in him? Not to me. Tells you something about the people who were in that room.
Pretty sure the only room Woj blew away had an M on the door, hey?
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You’re 100% right, Tower. But here’s the thing...
Both Al and Wojo got the job because they “blew away the room” when they interviewed. I get it with Al. As Dick Enberg said, he “owned every room he walked into”. I’m sure he blew away any room anytime he wanted to. Can you imagine Wojo ever blowing away any room? Has he said or done anything in 7 years that indicate he has that in him? Not to me. Tells you something about the people who were in that room.
Nobody would give a crap about him “blowing away a room” or any of the other silly criticisms about him...if he won more on the court.
If fact if he would be winning more, I would argue that there really is not much negative about Wojo.
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If fact if he would be winning more, I would argue that there really is not much negative about Wojo.
Yeah, and if John Wayne Gacy wasn’t a murderer, I’d argue he’d be the exact type of clown you’d want to hire for your child’s next birthday party.
You should really consider charging for this type of premium content.
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Would never make it today. Three point line, shot clock, would be in trouble for fighting with players. Everybody is mining what used to be his fertile recruiting areas. Arguing with administration. Flirtations with the NBA. Terrible record at a basketball backwater. fuggedaboutit
Biggest pile of speculative BS posted here in a long time by the #1 Wojo excuser.
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Must have been a very boring room...
excuses.
.....until Wojo-Dukiet whipped out his power point, which then turned the room into a fourth of July fireworks celebration.
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Good job, boo-boo, of letting the sarcasm go right over your head.
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Any coaching hire is a crap shoot. Al turned out to be a genius for his time. Wojo hasn't.
Tell me this is sarcasm as well...because some school's/AD's have pretty good track records.
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Nope. Any coaching change is a crap shoot.
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Tell me this is sarcasm as well...because some school's/AD's have pretty good track records.
Who? Im honestly curious if that's the case.
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Who? Im honestly curious if that's the case.
This hurts to say, but off the top of my head, Badgers are one such school- Bennett, Ryan, Gard. Even Stu Jackson. And they pulled the plug very quickly on Van Gundy and Soderberg.
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Yeah, and if John Wayne Gacy wasn’t a murderer, I’d argue he’d be the exact type of clown you’d want to hire for your child’s next birthday party.
You should really consider charging for this type of premium content.
Apparently the point went over your head per usual.
All the criticisms about Wojo, from not "electrifying the room" to his press conferences to his sideline huddles, are irrelevant. What is relevant is that he isn't winning enough on the court and the reasons for that.
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This hurts to say, but off the top of my head, Badgers are one such school- Bennett, Ryan, Gard. Even Stu Jackson. And they pulled the plug very quickly on Van Gundy and Soderberg.
Barry Alvarez has hired one basketball coach - the one promoted as an assistant who he reportedly wasn't sold on. He also biffed on a football coaching search and many would say on the latest hockey search.
So we may want to pump the brakes on that one.
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The list of non-Power 5/Big East schools in Ken Pomeroy top 50 for both adjusted offense and defense:
Loyola Chicago, Houston, Gonzaga, SLU.
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Barry Alvarez has hired one basketball coach - the one promoted as an assistant who he reportedly wasn't sold on. He also biffed on a football coaching search and many would say on the latest hockey search.
So we may want to pump the brakes on that one.
I wasn’t referring to an AD. avid pointed out schools too in his post. UW has an overall excellent almost 30 year track record to support his point. Since this thread is about potential Wojo replacements, my remarks were about the men’s basketball program. Trying to stay on course here.
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Pat Richter hired Jackson, Bennett, and Ryan by the way. Two home runs and a double to the gap.
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This hurts to say, but off the top of my head, Badgers are one such school- Bennett, Ryan, Gard. Even Stu Jackson. And they pulled the plug very quickly on Van Gundy and Soderberg.
Seriously? He was 32-25 and his team that made the NCAA tourney lost 6 of their last 8 and skidded into the tourney with a sub 500 record featuring a top 5 Badger ever in Finley, and their best recruit ever at the time in Griffith. There is a reason Stu Jackson’s career has been as an administrator and not a coach. He was worse than Wojo.
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I guess Wisconsin is an example. Stu Jackson did well in his two years with players recruited by the previous coach. Yoder wasn't good certainly but it was his recruits that Jackson coached. Van Gundy flopped. Then they had two consecutive great hires in Bennett and Ryan. Gard I have a hard time giving Wisconsin credit for because the only reason they hired him was because Ryan gave them no other choice by retiring midseason. Who knows who they would have gotten in a normal coaching search.
Bennett and Ryan were two consecutive great hires. I'm not so sure about Jackson, Van Gundy, and Gard.
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Butler and Xavier come to mind as obvious answers.
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Seriously? He was 32-25 and his team that made the NCAA tourney lost 6 of their last 8 and skidded into the tourney with a sub 500 record featuring a top 5 Badger ever in Finley, and their best recruit ever at the time in Griffith. There is a reason Stu Jackson’s career has been as an administrator and not a coach. He was worse than Wojo.
1992–93 Wisconsin 14–14 7–11 T–8th NIT First Round
1993–94 Wisconsin 18–11 8–10 7th NCAA Second Round
that's not worse than wojo. i understand context matters...but saying wojo would have done any better in stu's place is impossible to prove...but hard to believe.
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The list of non-Power 5/Big East schools in Ken Pomeroy top 50 for both adjusted offense and defense:
Loyola Chicago, Houston, Gonzaga, SLU.
I become more sold on the Moser idea by the minute.
We get a bit of a real-time taste test on Sunday, with Loyola playing @Missouri St. on CBS Sports Net at 2 p.m. CST while MU tips at 2:30 CST on FOX. Will I be the only one flipping back & forth?
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Seriously? He was 32-25 and his team that made the NCAA tourney lost 6 of their last 8 and skidded into the tourney with a sub 500 record featuring a top 5 Badger ever in Finley, and their best recruit ever at the time in Griffith. There is a reason Stu Jackson’s career has been as an administrator and not a coach. He was worse than Wojo.
The 1993-94 Badger season was their best season winning percentage wise, and their first NCAA bid, in 47 years.
I'm not saying he was worse or better than Wojo (different eras, different programs), but it was a hell of an accomplishment.
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Stan Johnson.
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Stan Johnson.
OMG seriously?
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Seriously? He was 32-25 and his team that made the NCAA tourney lost 6 of their last 8 and skidded into the tourney with a sub 500 record featuring a top 5 Badger ever in Finley, and their best recruit ever at the time in Griffith. There is a reason Stu Jackson’s career has been as an administrator and not a coach. He was worse than Wojo.
Looking at the 93 and 94 stats it looks like Griffith completely owned Jim McIlvaine
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Stan Johnson.
Stick to making an ass out of yourself with bad gofundme requests
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Looking at the 93 and 94 stats it looks like Griffith completely owned Jim McIlvaine
Griffith was a hell of a player. Yeah he was overrated as the #2 overall prospect in his class, behind Rasheed Wallace, but he was all Big Ten as a sophomore and was a dominant college big man. Never made it in the NBA, but part of that was because he was pulling in seven figures overseas in a career that lasted until 2010.
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Stick to making an ass out of yourself with bad gofundme requests
It's not too late to donate!!
FIRE WOJO
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It's not too late to donate!!
FIRE WOJO
I actually think it is. I'm late to the party but I clicked on the link and I get an error message.
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Griffith was a hell of a player. Yeah he was overrated as the #2 overall prospect in his class, behind Rasheed Wallace, but he was all Big Ten as a sophomore and was a dominant college big man. Never made it in the NBA, but part of that was because he was pulling in seven figures overseas in a career that lasted until 2010.
Just surprised me because I thought Mac was untouchable down low his last two seasons for some reason.
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Butler and Xavier come to mind as obvious answers.
These were the first two that came to my mind. Their secret is that they keep it in the family to maintain a consistent culture. I guess we should hire Stan!
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Seriously? He was 32-25 and his team that made the NCAA tourney lost 6 of their last 8 and skidded into the tourney with a sub 500 record featuring a top 5 Badger ever in Finley, and their best recruit ever at the time in Griffith. There is a reason Stu Jackson’s career has been as an administrator and not a coach. He was worse than Wojo.
As Fluffy pointed out to you, he took over a program that hadn’t made an NCAA field in 47 years, and oh by the way, won a game when they got in- beating Huggins and Cincinnati.
I never said he was great, I referred to him as a double, not a home run hire, but he significantly raised the profile of their program, which had been bad forever before his arrival.
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This hurts to say, but off the top of my head, Badgers are one such school- Bennett, Ryan, Gard. Even Stu Jackson. And they pulled the plug very quickly on Van Gundy and Soderberg.
And you have to give Richter for pulling the plug on Soderberg. Bennett timed his retirement to give Soderberg the job...and Richter didn’t bite and moved on despite making it to the tourney.
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You’re 100% right, Tower. But here’s the thing...
Both Al and Wojo got the job because they “blew away the room” when they interviewed. I get it with Al. As Dick Enberg said, he “owned every room he walked into”. I’m sure he blew away any room anytime he wanted to. Can you imagine Wojo ever blowing away any room? Has he said or done anything in 7 years that indicate he has that in him? Not to me. Tells you something about the people who were in that room.
Obviously, anybody who was either at MU when Al was there or got to know him afterward or simply is a student of MU hoops history respects Al and has a special place in his/her heart for Al. Also obviously, anything that pretends to be any kind of comparison between Al and Wojo is just plain silly.
Now that I got that out of the way, though, let's be honest ...
If Wojo were to get canned and Marquette were to hire a guy who spent 7 years at a tiny school, whose record got worse every year at that tiny school, and whose last 2 seasons at that tiny school were 7-21 and 6-18, Scoop would absolutely implode.
I mean, the mention of Porter Moser, who took Loyola to the Final Four, had some Scoopers expressing disgust. And the mention of Brian Wardle, an MU alum who has had some good seasons at GB and Bradley, has earned "No, anybody but him!" responses from many.
7 years at a tiny school, including a combined 13-39 record in his last two years. If MU administration said, "Yeah, but he blew away the room," I'm guessing you, Doc, rocket, Goose, etc, would have rolled your eyes and laughed derisively.
It's like with Chris Beard. We'd all love him now, but if Marquette had hired a coach with his resume, the reaction in Scoopdom would have been swift and negative.
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Honest question, are there any examples of a P6 program hiring a non-D1 coach and it working out? All I can think of is Kim Anderson failing at Mizzou.
There are lots of examples of coaches who started coaching D2 or D3 who ended up being good P6 coaches, but they all had low or mid-major stops in-between.
Our guy Al McGuire.
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Obviously, anybody who was either at MU when Al was there or got to know him afterward or simply is a student of MU hoops history respects Al and has a special place in his/her heart for Al. Also obviously, anything that pretends to be any kind of comparison between Al and Wojo is just plain silly.
Now that I got that out of the way, though, let's be honest ...
If Wojo were to get canned and Marquette were to hire a guy who spent 7 years at a tiny school, whose record got worse every year at that tiny school, and whose last 2 seasons at that tiny school were 7-21 and 6-18, Scoop would absolutely implode.
I mean, the mention of Porter Moser, who took Loyola to the Final Four, had some Scoopers expressing disgust. And the mention of Brian Wardle, an MU alum who has had some good seasons at GB and Bradley, has earned "No, anybody but him!" responses from many.
7 years at a tiny school, including a combined 13-39 record in his last two years. If MU administration said, "Yeah, but he blew away the room," I'm guessing you, Doc, rocket, Goose, etc, would have rolled your eyes and laughed derisively.
It's like with Chris Beard. We'd all love him now, but if Marquette had hired a coach with his resume, the reaction in Scoopdom would have been swift and negative.
Possibly. (OK-- Probably). I also think there are enough that recognize the Dick Bennet/Bo Ryan path. Cannot argue with that success, and while I really don't want to watch a team that scores 18 points a half, I'd rather watch a team that does that under control and following a plan than what I just saw in Providence.
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It’s not going to happen after this season,but my top (realistic) choices are:
DeVries (Drake)
Medved (Co. State)
TJO
Wardle
Dream candidates:
Oats
Oats
Oats
Beard
Oats
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And you have to give Richter for pulling the plug on Soderberg. Bennett timed his retirement to give Soderberg the job...and Richter didn’t bite and moved on despite making it to the tourney.
Wow, kind of crazy UW had two coaches pull that stunt.
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It’s not going to happen after this season,but my top (realistic) choices are:
DeVries (Drake)
Medved (Co. State)
TJO
Wardle
Dream candidates:
Oats
Oats
Oats
Beard
Oats
Great list. All poor fits for the MU admin. Why you ask? Academics and who MU now accepts as student athletes. Let's get real...
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Great list. All poor fits for the MU admin. Why you ask? Academics and who MU now accepts as student athletes. Let's get real...
You forgot DWade might fit!
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Wow, kind of crazy UW had two coaches pull that stunt.
A former business associate was DOBO under Bennett. He said after the Final Four game, hearing all of the media criticism, Dick told the team and staff he was going to retire so Sodey could get the job. Richter said no, so Dick came back and pulled his stunt s few games into the season. Even if Vershaw hadn’t clanked those free throws against Georgia State Sodey wasn’t getting the job. Richter thought he had Majerus in the bag.
Grad got lucky going to the Sweet 16 and being named National COY. And having Barry as AD who promoted his own assistant when he retired.
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I wonder if Dick hadn't have pulled that stunt, and Richter did end up with Majerus, if Bo would have ever made his way to Wisconsin.
I also wonder if Dick regrets it for the same reason since Bo and him can't stand one another.
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Great list. All poor fits for the MU admin. Why you ask? Academics and who MU now accepts as student athletes. Let's get real...
What do you know about the Drake and Colorado State players academics? Why would they not be welcome at MU (besides most of them not being good enough at basketball)?
Devries spent most of his coaching career at Creighton, I'm not aware of any academic issues with their basketball program and they have the same standards as Marquette. Medved has been at Furman, Drake, and Colorado State. I'm less familiar with their programs but again am not aware of any academic issues with any of his teams.
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If they just need a pretty face on the sideline who will run a clean program, I will coach for free until they have paid off their Wojo debt.
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Show us your pics, hey?
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If we are going to have scoopers, I nominate $5 pitcher.
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If we are going to have scoopers, I nominate $5 pitcher.
I nominate Guru, he's made it clear he does not tolerate losing of any kind so we'll only have undefeated seasons
Of course if I had to guess he's probably got some chats with the fbi keeping him busy.
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If we are going to have scoopers, I nominate $5 pitcher.
willie
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gurus gone awol
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gurus gone awol
Nope, I'm pretty sure its a permanent vacation.
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Nope, I'm pretty sure its a permanent vacation.
Overall or just from Scoop? Because he's posted elsewhere.
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If we are going to have scoopers, I nominate $5 pitcher.
Dude why are you dissing your not-so-secret admirer!?!
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For the good of the program. $5 has shown a basic knowledge of basketball. Willie is so one-note that I am really not sure he watches the games. While it would be personally nice to have a groupie in charge, I have to look to the good of the program.
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What do you know about the Drake and Colorado State players academics? Why would they not be welcome at MU (besides most of them not being good enough at basketball)?
Devries spent most of his coaching career at Creighton, I'm not aware of any academic issues with their basketball program and they have the same standards as Marquette. Medved has been at Furman, Drake, and Colorado State. I'm less familiar with their programs but again am not aware of any academic issues with any of his teams.
Here is what I do know: Both schools have JUCO student athletes on rosters for all their sports teams. The entirety of ALL MU sports have zero.
Now, we can continue this argument as in the past, but the fact remains, the last two JUCOS to play any sport at MU were Jae and DJO.
MU has taken on the ND rule about academics and student athletes. It's fine for MU to admit it (you know how I strongly feel about it). But to think that any of those coaches would be a good fit with the MU requirements is a fallacy. No Rhodes Scholar JUCO stud is walking through The Al's doors.
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Here is what I do know: Both schools have JUCO student athletes on rosters for all their sports teams. The entirety of ALL MU sports have zero.
Now, we can continue this argument as in the past, but the fact remains, the last two JUCOS to play any sport at MU were Jae and DJO.
MU has taken on the ND rule about academics and student athletes. It's fine for MU to admit it (you know how I strongly feel about it). But to think that any of those coaches would be a good fit with the MU requirements is a fallacy. No Rhodes Scholar JUCO stud is walking through The Al's doors.
Most JUCO transfers are in MBB, football and Baseball, the last two which we don’t have. A small number in MSOC and WBB.
Wake Forest hoops hasn’t had a JUCO in many years and yet they hired Forbes who had nothing but at his last school. At a school like MU a coach can get a higher level of player and not need to mine the JUCO ranks, which after happens late in the recruiting process.
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Here is what I do know: Both schools have JUCO student athletes on rosters for all their sports teams. The entirety of ALL MU sports have zero.
Now, we can continue this argument as in the past, but the fact remains, the last two JUCOS to play any sport at MU were Jae and DJO.
MU has taken on the ND rule about academics and student athletes. It's fine for MU to admit it (you know how I strongly feel about it). But to think that any of those coaches would be a good fit with the MU requirements is a fallacy. No Rhodes Scholar JUCO stud is walking through The Al's doors.
So basically, MU has changed the way they run the basketball program, and have changed their expectations for the program internally, but they haven't relayed that to the fanbase. If they'd have just been honest and told everyone they wanted to be more like Northwestern going forward instead of, say, Cincinnati under Bob Huggins, the last seven years would've been far less infuriating. I would've checked out a long time ago, and I think many others would have, too.
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I have never heard any MUBB fan refer to any Wisky coach by a cute little nickname....
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Here is what I do know: Both schools have JUCO student athletes on rosters for all their sports teams. The entirety of ALL MU sports have zero.
But you don't know this. First off meet Matheus Pereira (https://gomarquette.com/sports/mens-soccer/roster/matheus-pereira/5255) Proud graduate of Marshalltown Community College and member of the men's soccer team. I honestly haven't checked the roster for other programs over the past 7ish years but I knew this one off the top of my head. He's been brought up here before but I assume you missed it the last time this discussion was had.
Second, Niko Medved doesn't have any JUCOs on his team. Not a one. In fact, he's never recruited a JUCO to Colorado State. I don't know what he did in his one year at Drake or his previous years at Furman but unless you know something else about him there was no reason to include him here.
Devries does have three jucos on his team. I have no idea what their academic situation is, but if they could graduate before their eligibility ran out, they would be welcome at MU.
Moreover, Marquette wouldn't disqualify a coach for recruiting a JUCO in the past. There might be a concern that if all of a coach's success was based on getting the best JUCOs that it might not translate to the high major level given the low number of high major ready JUCOs (which was my concern with Forbes at Wake) but neither Devries or Medved match that description.
Now, we can continue this argument as in the past, but the fact remains, the last two JUCOS to play any sport at MU were Jae and DJO.
This isn't true. One, Mr. Pereira. Two, Jameel McKay was admitted after the so called Crowder rule was instated. He left without ever playing in a game, but that was because of Buzz not the admin.
MU has taken on the ND rule about academics and student athletes. It's fine for MU to admit it (you know how I strongly feel about it). But to think that any of those coaches would be a good fit with the MU requirements is a fallacy. No Rhodes Scholar JUCO stud is walking through The Al's doors.
There is nothing to admit. Marquette's standard is that it needs to be possible for a player to graduate before their eligibility expires. That's the bar. It's not a high one. And its a standard that many schools have, not just Marquette or ND. It does disproportionally impact JUCOs because many of them major in PE and Marquette doesn't have a comparable program to transfer those credits into and with only 2 years of eligibility left for many of them, graduating is impossible. I know for a fact that Wojo has offered several JUCOs, some who didn't major in PE, some who had three years of eligibility and could catch up, and others who were offered on the condition that they would take a redshirt year. Wojo even had one on campus for an official visit but couldn't seal the deal.
There is no blanket ban on JUCOs like you have repeatedly implied. Whoever told you this gave you bad information. The reality is, the amount of high major ready talent is limited at the JUCO level and many majored in a program that Marquette doesn't have so their credits don't transfer. But there is a population of JUCOs that meet the standard and are high major ready and Wojo is free to recruit those, and has. Some coaches have strong inroads at the JUCO level, Wojo doesn't.
Unless you know something not publicly known about Medved or Devries, there is no reason to think they couldn't be candidates for Wojo's job it it were to open.
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So basically, MU has changed the way they run the basketball program, and have changed their expectations for the program internally, but they haven't relayed that to the fanbase. If they'd have just been honest and told everyone they wanted to be more like Northwestern going forward instead of, say, Cincinnati under Bob Huggins, the last seven years would've been far less infuriating. I would've checked out a long time ago, and I think many others would have, too.
No expectations have changed. There is a small pool of high major ready players that Wojo isn't able to recruit but hundreds more that he is. A capable coach could win and win big given the parameters Wojo has. To blame any lack of success on this is just an excuse.
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Wojo is simply a very bad coach. Decent recruiter, sure, but coach? Awful. Not to mention Marquette does a good job of recruiting itself with the new arena, NBA alum, excellent facilities, etc.
Wojo Sucks. FIRE WOJO
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For the good of the program. $5 has shown a basic knowledge of basketball. Willie is so one-note that I am really not sure he watches the games. While it would be personally nice to have a groupie in charge, I have to look to the good of the program.
Towering more full of it and yoursef every day. You know absolutely nothing about me. Just because I was clearly able to see Wojos mediocrity well before many you now resort to your smug BS. You dtill have not admitted that MU has mde a major mistake by committing to this guy for as long as they have. You Sir, are the one note!!!
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You gotta love the scoop walk ons who are all about being heard now.
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Wojo isn't an awful coach, which is part of what makes this harder for the administration. They have some evidence (2017, near-title before Howard's 2019 injury, 2 top-10 wins this year) to justify keeping him.
The problem is there isn't enough good to offset the bad and the bad trends we've seen haven't been course corrected. Wojo is a below average coach who's recruited enough talent to occasionally make him look good enough. But considering where most of us think the standards should be set, that isn't good enough.
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Wojo isn't an awful coach, which is part of what makes this harder for the administration. They have some evidence (2017, near-title before Howard's 2019 injury, 2 top-10 wins this year) to justify keeping him.
If we're going to use Howard's 2019 injury as an excuse for the collapse (an injury where he still played max minutes with max usage) and also say that 2017 was a good year for Wojo, it needs to be said that in 2017 Marquette played Creighton and Xavier *after* Maurice Watson and Edmond Sumner got hurt, and went 4-0 against those teams. Both X and Creighton were really good that year, and had it not been for those injuries, we may well have gone 1-3 or 0-4 against those teams and been in the NIT. Wojo got really lucky that year. Sure, Markus was injured to end 2019 when Wojo had his best squad (even though Markus still played max minutes with max usage), but Wojo's had some great good fortune at Marquette, too.
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If we're going to use Howard's 2019 injury as an excuse for the collapse (an injury where he still played max minutes with max usage) and also say that 2017 was a good year for Wojo, it needs to be said that in 2017 Marquette played Creighton and Xavier *after* Maurice Watson and Edmond Sumner got hurt, and went 4-0 against those teams. Both X and Creighton were really good that year, and had it not been for those injuries, we may well have gone 1-3 or 0-4 against those teams and been in the NIT. Wojo got really lucky that year. Sure, Markus was injured to end 2019 when Wojo had his best squad (even though Markus still played max minutes with max usage), but Wojo's had some great good fortune at Marquette, too.
You missed my point, or maybe I didn't make it clearly enough. I'm simply making the case of why the decision makers at Marquette could justify to themselves that this is fine and Wojo is good enough.
I'm all in on replacing him ASAP and feel the points you raise are valid ones that add to my own causes for concern, but from an administrative perspective, I understand how they could justify keeping him on even though I personally think it would be a mistake.
And from a results perspective, if he was performing at a DePaul/Georgetown level, I think this would be easier, but he's clearly above that, even if it's not as high as the fans desire.
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You missed my point, or maybe I didn't make it clearly enough. I'm simply making the case of why the decision makers at Marquette could justify to themselves that this is fine and Wojo is good enough.
I'm all in on replacing him ASAP and feel the points you raise are valid ones that add to my own causes for concern, but from an administrative perspective, I understand how they could justify keeping him on even though I personally think it would be a mistake.
And from a results perspective, if he was performing at a DePaul/Georgetown level, I think this would be easier, but he's clearly above that, even if it's not as high as the fans desire.
No, I agree with pretty much everything you said. If the results had been DePaul/Georgetown level (which is where Deane was taking us by his fifth year), Wojo would've been shown the door. Until the last two games, he'd done just enough to skate by, but I think the loss to DePaul, followed by Providence, might be the beginning of a tipping point.
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If we are going to have scoopers, I nominate $5 pitcher.
I agree, Tower. Clearly 5DollarBitcher has the necessary answers.
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I agree, Tower. Clearly 5DollarBitcher has the necessary answers.
Pitcher*
Sorry. Autocorrect.
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(https://media1.tenor.com/images/dc287d1040c65829f7fcefed6f051813/tenor.gif?itemid=5444923)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/HBqnHJzfx4ZQA/giphy.gif)
(http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/5342b89b6da811d77aba14f6/smart%20car%20flip.gif)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3ornjJ1tWxT7Crh59m/giphy.gif)
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/f442d31691404f9bd2586fbfb577ca34/tumblr_inline_prl50mmNGo1sjbdp6_1280.gif)
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Pitcher*
Sorry. Autocorrect.
it was funny the first ten times...
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it was funny the first ten times...
Agreed. How can someone have such a minimal understanding of comedy that they would just keep repeating the same joke over and over again? Not even any variations, just the same damn thing over and over. Well, hey, some people are just dullards I suppose.
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Agreed. How can someone have such a minimal understanding of comedy that they would just keep repeating the same joke over and over again? Not even any variations, just the same damn thing over and over. Well, hey, some people are just dullards I suppose.
Apparently me and 4ever...
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT9DPybeuKfVL8wslq/giphy.gif)
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And from a results perspective, if he was performing at a DePaul/Georgetown level, I think this would be easier, but he's clearly above that, even if it's not as high as the fans desire.
So that's the bar now...
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Wojo is simply a very bad coach. Decent recruiter, sure, but coach? Awful. Not to mention Marquette does a good job of recruiting itself with the new arena, NBA alum, excellent facilities, etc.
which players have come to MU based on facilities and nba alum? I thought Fiserv would help recruiting, but I’m not sure it’s necessarily made a significant difference.
Wojo Sucks. FIRE WOJO
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I regularly text with 16 MU fans, about 6 different text threads. Throughout the years we’ve all differed on our love of TC or Buzz. It’s a wide range of opinions. Wes vs Jerel, Markus vs Sam, TC vs modern fashion etc.
Everyone wants Wojo gone now. And most of these guys are STHs or 5 pack holders. I’ve never experienced so much common thought on MU.
If he’s back for year 8 and we don’t make a run...it will be UGLY at the FF.
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I regularly text with 16 MU fans, about 6 different text threads. Throughout the years we’ve all differed on our love of TC or Buzz. It’s a wide range of opinions. Wes vs Jerel, Markus vs Sam, TC can modern fashion etc.
Everyone want Wojo gone now. And most of these guys are STHs or 5 pack holders. I’ve never experienced so much common thought on MU.
If he’s back for year 8 and we don’t make a run...it will be UGLY at the FF.
What will y'all do? Will all of you not renew your ST?
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But you don't know this. First off meet Matheus Pereira (https://gomarquette.com/sports/mens-soccer/roster/matheus-pereira/5255) Proud graduate of Marshalltown Community College and member of the men's soccer team. I honestly haven't checked the roster for other programs over the past 7ish years but I knew this one off the top of my head. He's been brought up here before but I assume you missed it the last time this discussion was had.
Second, Niko Medved doesn't have any JUCOs on his team. Not a one. In fact, he's never recruited a JUCO to Colorado State. I don't know what he did in his one year at Drake or his previous years at Furman but unless you know something else about him there was no reason to include him here.
Devries does have three jucos on his team. I have no idea what their academic situation is, but if they could graduate before their eligibility ran out, they would be welcome at MU.
Moreover, Marquette wouldn't disqualify a coach for recruiting a JUCO in the past. There might be a concern that if all of a coach's success was based on getting the best JUCOs that it might not translate to the high major level given the low number of high major ready JUCOs (which was my concern with Forbes at Wake) but neither Devries or Medved match that description.
This isn't true. One, Mr. Pereira. Two, Jameel McKay was admitted after the so called Crowder rule was instated. He left without ever playing in a game, but that was because of Buzz not the admin.
There is nothing to admit. Marquette's standard is that it needs to be possible for a player to graduate before their eligibility expires. That's the bar. It's not a high one. And its a standard that many schools have, not just Marquette or ND. It does disproportionally impact JUCOs because many of them major in PE and Marquette doesn't have a comparable program to transfer those credits into and with only 2 years of eligibility left for many of them, graduating is impossible. I know for a fact that Wojo has offered several JUCOs, some who didn't major in PE, some who had three years of eligibility and could catch up, and others who were offered on the condition that they would take a redshirt year. Wojo even had one on campus for an official visit but couldn't seal the deal.
There is no blanket ban on JUCOs like you have repeatedly implied. Whoever told you this gave you bad information. The reality is, the amount of high major ready talent is limited at the JUCO level and many majored in a program that Marquette doesn't have so their credits don't transfer. But there is a population of JUCOs that meet the standard and are high major ready and Wojo is free to recruit those, and has. Some coaches have strong inroads at the JUCO level, Wojo doesn't.
Unless you know something not publicly known about Medved or Devries, there is no reason to think they couldn't be candidates for Wojo's job it it were to open.
I am happy MU now has one JUCO player on a sports team after 10 years. I do see he is from Marshalltown via Brazil. I do hope he gets his first game in. And I do appreciate MU advancing diversity and rediscovering their original mission after a decade. One SA is a good first step.
I won’t relitigate my well worn feelings on this topic again here any more, and I vote with dollars after my discussions with MU. Maybe in a small way I may have been heard. I will say where we disagree is the pool of JUCOs (see Drake, Loyola, Virginia, Kansas in the past few years, links I provided in the past you can look up). CSU has JUCOS and preps all over their sports teams. Billy’s foe, Steve Cottingham, overseas the basketball program. There isn’t just one on ALL sports teams.
As to my main point on Billy’s list, all of those coaches dip into areas Wojo can’t, but past MU coaches did going back to Al. Actions, whether written in policy or not, speak the reality (I have had a stronger term for it). MU admin wants a ND approach. Just like Cuonzo and Ben were bad fits for what they wanted, so would those on Billy’s list, as would Moser and Wardle. We are left with Todd Golden after Wojo. Billy says his good friend isn’t ready yet...so I guess Lovell keeps Wojo but potentially loses the room. I hope Wojo turns it around (and no, it isn’t on Wojo to turn to Jucos...it’s not why he was hired nor is it his network).
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Agreed. How can someone have such a minimal understanding of comedy that they would just keep repeating the same joke over and over again? Not even any variations, just the same damn thing over and over. Well, hey, some people are just dullards I suppose.
is this freaking sarcasm
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What will y'all do? Will all of you not renew your ST?
The disgust & displeasure is at an all time high. And there are some serious optimistic ppl in this lot.
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I am happy MU now has one JUCO player on a sports team after 10 years. I do see he is from Marshalltown via Brazil. I do hope he gets his first game in. And I do appreciate MU advancing diversity and rediscovering their original mission after a decade. One SA is a good first step.
It hasn't been a decade and Marquette rediscovered their mission when they stopped admitting players that had zero chance of graduating, not the other way around. Marquette has steadily increased diversity at the university under Lovell. Admitting basketball players who can't graduate has nothing to do with advancing diversity.
I won’t relitigate my well worn feelings on this topic again here any more, and I vote with dollars after my discussions with MU. Maybe in a small way I may have been heard. I will say where we disagree is the pool of JUCOs (see Drake, Loyola, Virginia, Kansas in the past few years, links I provided in the past you can look up).
I have addressed those in the past. Virginia has had ONE juco under Bennett (and he's the last guy in their rotation this season). Kansas has had ONE juco under Self (and he isn't part of their regular rotation despite being the top ranked juco in his class), Loyola and Drake are mid-Majors, plus Loyola only has one JUCO on their roster (and he's a bench player). That's hardly evidence that there's a wealth of high major talent hiding in the JUCO ranks. I never said there was no high major ready JUCOs, just that the pool is small.
CSU has JUCOS and preps all over their sports teams. Billy’s foe, Steve Cottingham, overseas the basketball program. There isn’t just one on ALL sports teams.
So your argument is that any coach that coaches at a university that allows JUCOs would not be welcome at MU...even if the coach has never recruited a JUCO? Is the admin afraid they got cooties?
As to my main point on Billy’s list, all of those coaches dip into areas Wojo can’t, but past MU coaches did going back to Al.
Where are they dipping that Wojo can't? Even if it was true that they couldn't hire Devries because he's recruited a juco before (its not true), where is Medved dipping? He's never recruited a juco to Colorado State.
Just like Cuonzo and Ben were bad fits for what they wanted, so would those on Billy’s list, as would Moser and Wardle.
Cuonzo was a bad fit because he was running from Tennessee rather than to Marquette. Howland falls into the Greg Marshall brand of coaching. What are the issues with Devries, Medved, Moser, and Wardle?
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It hasn't been a decade and Marquette rediscovered their mission when they stopped admitting players that had zero chance of graduating, not the other way around. Marquette has steadily increased diversity at the university under Lovell. Admitting basketball players who can't graduate has nothing to do with advancing diversity.
Marquette has increased their students of color from 20% to about 25% since Buzz left, but people think they strayed from their original mission because they haven't admitted Jucos into the men's basketball program? ::) ::) ::)
Not to mention, Wojo has recruited Jucos AND has had them on campus for official visits.
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I regularly text with 16 MU fans, about 6 different text threads.
Stop stealing page views from MUScoop.
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Marquette has increased their students of color from 20% to about 25% since Buzz left, but people think they strayed from their original mission because they haven't admitted Jucos into the men's basketball program? ::) ::) ::)
Not to mention, Wojo has recruited Jucos AND has had them on campus for official visits.
The US undergraduate population for people of color today is 47.1%. Marquette's is 29%. MU indexes at 61. In your wokeness, if you think that is even a D grade for a faith-based school, then good god.
Back to the topic of potential coaches, I see all sorts of flairs going up around this with a lot of words. The simple fact is, that for a decade not one JUCO player has set foot in The Al, when they have in the past.
Between Larry and Scholl and the current president, we have heard about the raised academic standards. This board thinks our best candidate coaches, who all currently and in the past recruit JUCOS, and see JUCOS, preps and transfers as a quick way to rebuild and balance a program. That's not in line with those standards, written or otherwise, MU had switched to.
Nate Oats, Otz, I mean come on people. Get a clue on how they recruit and their fit to the new MU.
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Has the administration said anything regarding Wojo either during this year or in the last off season? There is an assumption on here that the admin absolutely loves him because he’s good enough and runs a clean program.
The admin isn’t going to comment on Wojo after every loss...as is done here.
I guess we will see their position once his contract is due.
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I regularly text with 16 MU fans, about 6 different text threads. Throughout the years we’ve all differed on our love of TC or Buzz. It’s a wide range of opinions. Wes vs Jerel, Markus vs Sam, TC can modern fashion etc.
Everyone want Wojo gone now. And most of these guys are STHs or 5 pack holders. I’ve never experienced so much common thought on MU.
If he’s back for year 8 and we don’t make a run...it will be UGLY at the FF.
Similar, but different.
I have several Bucky bball buddies who we text with about each other’s teams.
They don’t even text after losses to DePaul anymore. We are becoming irrelevant even to our haters.
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Stop stealing page views from MUScoop.
These guys have all either been banned by you or can’t afford these outrageous monthly dues.
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The US undergraduate population for people of color today is 47.1%. Marquette's is 29%. MU indexes at 61. In your wokeness, if you think that is even a D grade for a faith-based school, then good god.
Back to the topic of potential coaches, I see all sorts of flairs going up around this with a lot of words. The simple fact is, that for a decade not one JUCO player has set foot in The Al, when they have in the past.
Between Larry and Scholl and the current president, we have heard about the raised academic standards. This board thinks our best candidate coaches, who all currently and in the past recruit JUCOS, and see JUCOS, preps and transfers as a quick way to rebuild and balance a program. That's not in line with those standards, written or otherwise, MU had switched to.
Nate Oats, Otz, I mean come on people. Get a clue on how they recruit and their fit to the new MU.
LOL. Talk about a goalpost shift.
You claim that MU wasn't advancing diversity by not admitting Jucos in the men's basketball program. Which is absurd. When I point out that MU has actually made more strides in diversity since Buzz left, you then compare to nationwide stats. Which I never did...TAMU never did...and YOU never did.
It has nothing to do with the laziness of using adjectives like "woke." It has to do with logically consistent arguments.
The fact is that MU has recruited Jucos under Wojo. He has hosted them on campus.
It is approximately 43rd on the list of the top 50 reasons why Wojo hasn't succeeded.
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As fore recruits, MU should take anywon of dem hoo kan pay tuition, aina?
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So that's the bar now...
Yeah, sadly. Going on a 6th year with no NCAA appearances, no winning Big East records in that time, dark days in DC.
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The disgust & displeasure is at an all time high. And there are some serious optimistic ppl in this lot.
I appreciate that, Lens. My two best MU friends texted me after the DePaul loss. Said one: "I'm not a fan of Wojo at all. The team always looks unprepared. He's gotta go." Said the other: "He recruits fine, but dude simply cannot coach."
So I hear ya.
But you didn't answer my question. You said these are long-time STH. Are they disgusted and displeased enough to pull the plug? No more ST, no more donations, no more nuttin'?
I'm not making any kind of judgment here. I'm just genuinely curious about what the "or else" is here, if there is one.
People here are talking about boycotts and other stuff, but if ST sales go from the thousands and thousands to the hundreds, THAT will get the administration's attention. And it wouldn't embarrass the athletes with a sudden display of anger, as some worry a boycott or walk-out would do.
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There's a group of 5 Chicago guys who became STH's when the Fiserv opened. They are big time waffling. Admittedly part of it is lower level inventory is higher than the BC, so they're not sure it worth it. But the losing doesn't help.
Then about 8 others are MKE based and most will definitely make adjustments...4 seats to 2 or move up some rows to save money. Everyone seems to want to pull back money / time invested. Best example. Family of 4 or 5...grade school kids...I don't see many guys in this group carrying 4 seats next season. I see them keeping 2 and figuring it out when every one can get to a big game.
None of these guys needs to spend less...the feeling is just what's the use?
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Has the administration said anything regarding Wojo either during this year or in the last off season? There is an assumption on here that the admin absolutely loves him because he’s good enough and runs a clean program.
The admin isn’t going to comment on Wojo after every loss...as is done here.
I guess we will see their position once his contract is due.
The administration will not do anything after this season regarding Men's basketball. There are far more urgent issues at Marquette right now.
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The US undergraduate population for people of color today is 47.1%. Marquette's is 29%. MU indexes at 61. In your wokeness, if you think that is even a D grade for a faith-based school, then good god.
If you want to say Marquette has a long way to go that's fine and true. But you asserted that we lost sight of our mission "a decade ago" (a decade ago DJO, Buycks, and Crowder were on the roster) when the numbers were worse. So if this is your argument and the current admin get a D, than you must have given the good ole days an F. And again, what does this have to do with JUCOs on the men's basketball team?
Back to the topic of potential coaches, I see all sorts of flairs going up around this with a lot of words. The simple fact is, that for a decade not one JUCO player has set foot in The Al, when they have in the past.
I'm pretty sure men's soccer players visit the Al ;D. But more seriously, McKay was admitted and practiced with the team after the so called Crowder rule.
Between Larry and Scholl and the current president, we have heard about the raised academic standards.
We've heard about academic achievements. You have implied that there is raised academic standards but beyond it being a requirement that it must be possible for a player to graduate prior to their eligibility runs out, there is no raised standards.
This board thinks our best candidate coaches, who all currently and in the past recruit JUCOS, and see JUCOS, preps and transfers as a quick way to rebuild and balance a program. That's not in line with those standards, written or otherwise, MU had switched to.
Again, Niko Medved has NEVER recruited a juco to Colorado State. Preps and transfers are a non-issue at Marquette, Wojo has multiple of them on his teams. JUCOs are a non-issue too, Wojo has offered several of them. You are making things up to support your anger for an administration that has been gone for 7.5 years.
You have a single fact supporting your argument. That Wojo has not successfully recruited a JUCO since he came here. There is plenty of evidence to counteract that fact and show that there isn't a blanket ban on JUCOs the way you have implied (McKay, Matheus Pereira, Wojo recruiting JUCOs).
Moreover, what does recruiting JUCOs to play basketball have to do with advancing diversity?
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The administration will not do anything after this season regarding Men's basketball. There are far more urgent issues at Marquette right now.
Agreed—slightly different conversation.
If the BOT would anticipate the potential drop in season ticket holders, boycotts, billboards (ha), booing the coach and team, etc. they may get to a tipping point and realize that they need to get rid of him for financial reasons.
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Agreed—slightly different conversation.
If the BOT would anticipate the potential drop in season ticket holders, boycotts, billboards (ha), booing the coach and team, etc. they may get to a tipping point and realize that they need to get rid of him for financial reasons.
Financial reasons are exactly why he remains at MU. The BOT is trying to deal with balancing the budget and declining enrollment.
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Aren't these two completely different budgets? The school is always having some financial difficulties, its just a matter of to what degree.
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Aren't these two completely different budgets? The school is always having some financial difficulties, its just a matter of to what degree.
It's never been at this degree
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It's never been at this degree
TAMU,
Can you give a quick summary as to why the financial troubles are so bad besides the obvious (Covid)? Just curious. I know people have said the enrollment is going down but is this the case at most schools because of decreasing college attendance nation wide or is it something specific to Marquette?
Appreciate your input.
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Financial reasons are exactly why he remains at MU. The BOT is trying to deal with balancing the budget and declining enrollment.
Can MU afford ~20-30% decrease in STHs followed by another year of 10-20% decrease if he stays?
*just throwing these #s out there.
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TAMU,
Can you give a quick summary as to why the financial troubles are so bad besides the obvious (Covid)? Just curious. I know people have said the enrollment is going down but is this the case at most schools because of decreasing college attendance nation wide or is it something specific to Marquette?
Appreciate your input.
Enrollment is dropping at a lot of places but at Marquette it has been quite bad. IMO I think it’s a problem with their financial aid strategy. I have heard a number of (admittedly anecdotal) stories about aid packages not being competitive with peer institutions.
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TAMU,
Can you give a quick summary as to why the financial troubles are so bad besides the obvious (Covid)? Just curious. I know people have said the enrollment is going down but is this the case at most schools because of decreasing college attendance nation wide or is it something specific to Marquette?
Appreciate your input.
Does it need anything more than the obvious answer?
Its pretty common knowledge that I work for Texas A&M University. That is a much more financially stable institution than Marquette with an endowment that makes Marquette's endowment look like my bank account. We have had to lay off a lot of staff, entire departments have been gutted, budgets cut, merit gone, hiring freezes, etc. And we are as stable financially as it gets in the higher education world.
We are going to see tectonic shift in higher education after the next 10-20 years. There are too many universities, charging too much money, for job prospects that don't make nearly enough to pay off the student loan debt. Plus, its been known for awhile now that there is a demographic shift coming that is going to shrink the amount of students going to college. After the 2008 recession, families, particularly middle class families which produce the bulk of prospective college students, have been having less and less kids. Some regions such as the south are seeing a population surge as people flee from the midwest and east coast, but other regions are about to hit hard with a scarcity of possible enrollees. Universities, particularly liberal arts schools, are going to have to be financially innovative to survive the next couple of decades. Many will close. Wisconsin already had its first causality with Holy Family College up on Mantiwoc closing its doors this year. More will follow. I think Marquette survives because they are still considered a top 100 university but they will need to be creative and smart to make it work.
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Does it need anything more than the obvious answer?
Its pretty common knowledge that I work for Texas A&M University. That is a much more financially stable institution than Marquette with an endowment that makes Marquette's endowment look like my bank account. We have had to lay off a lot of staff, entire departments have been gutted, budgets cut, merit gone, hiring freezes, etc. And we are as stable financially as it gets in the higher education world.
We are going to see tectonic shift in higher education after the next 10-20 years. There are too many universities, charging too much money, for job prospects that don't make nearly enough to pay off the student loan debt. Plus, its been known for awhile now that there is a demographic shift coming that is going to shrink the amount of students going to college. After the 2008 recession, families, particularly middle class families which produce the bulk of prospective college students, have been having less and less kids. Some regions such as the south are seeing a population surge as people flee from the midwest and east coast, but other regions are about to hit hard with a scarcity of possible enrollees. Universities, particularly liberal arts schools, are going to have to be financially innovative to survive the next couple of decades. Many will close. Wisconsin already had its first causality with Holy Family College up on Mantiwoc closing its doors this year. More will follow. I think Marquette survives because they are still considered a top 100 university but they will need to be creative and smart to make it work.
Excellent points. This is exactly what is taking place at Colleges and Universities around the country. Survival of the fittest.The financially strongest will survive. Others will struggle, perhaps closing or reducing offerings. For a small, private University like Marquette it is a precarious situation. Our endowment does not give us much flexibility. I agree Marquette will likely survive, but it is imperative we have strong leadership. My issue is I do not believe Lovell is the guy to lead us through this crisis.
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Thanks FBM and TAMU.
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Excellent points. This is exactly what is taking place at Colleges and Universities around the country. Survival of the fittest.The financially strongest will survive. Others will struggle, perhaps closing or reducing offerings. For a small, private University like Marquette it is a precarious situation. Our endowment does not give us much flexibility. I agree Marquette will likely survive, but it is imperative we have strong leadership. My issue is I do not believe Lovell is the guy to lead us through this crisis.
I think it also involves building the financial resources necessary to survive. Marquette needs to create a stronger bond between itself and its alumni -- something tangible and real -- that would have the effect of building a meaningful endowment. That takes an investment, not only from us but from SE Wisconsin community leaders who want to stay committed to a strong private education in Milwaukee.
We're at a disadvantage because we've never strongly recruited the growing south. As a southern high schooler, I went to Marquette because of a family heritage. The year I went to college, there were three of us Nashvillians who attended my Catholic High School who found their way to Marquette. And two of us were from families who originally were from Wisconsin.
Milwaukee is an interesting place with culture that many southern cities just do not have. We don't have football, but we have a great academic program, hopefully improving basketball and a freedom to explore that does not exist in many college towns. Marquette has a lot going for it, but it requires marketing, money and committed alumni to make it happen.
TAMU can speak to what it means to have committed alumni. Maybe the word is "committed" but those Aggies are really into A&M.
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Indoctrinated is the correct word Brother Dgies
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Here is today's Marquette: We want to be like Villanova or ND or St. Louis or Georgetown, and now TAMU
Here is my MU: They all want to be like Marquette. Social pioneers of Project Headstart, the Peace Corps, Mother Theresa, Presidents want to talk here, stone wall to Apartheid, a law school in the lead on racial injustice. You know, Untucked with a crazy ass coach who stands up to racists and says we'll cut down the nets in NYC with our switchblades.
A lot of words thrown here defending the ordinary. Warriors prefer to be leading. We lost something along the the way. Some say everything.
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Here is today's Marquette: We want to be like Villanova or ND or St. Louis or Georgetown, and now TAMU
Here is my MU: They all want to be like Marquette. Social pioneers of Project Headstart, the Peace Corps, Mother Theresa, Presidents want to talk here, stone wall to Apartheid, a law school in the lead on racial injustice. You know, Untucked with a crazy ass coach who stands up to racists and says we'll cut down the nets in NYC with our switchblades.
A lot of words thrown here defending the ordinary. Warriors prefer to be leading. We lost something along the the way. Some say everything.
::)
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Here is today's Marquette: We want to be like Villanova or ND or St. Louis or Georgetown, and now TAMU
Here is my MU: They all want to be like Marquette. Social pioneers of Project Headstart, the Peace Corps, Mother Theresa, Presidents want to talk here, stone wall to Apartheid, a law school in the lead on racial injustice. You know, Untucked with a crazy ass coach who stands up to racists and says we'll cut down the nets in NYC with our switchblades.
A lot of words thrown here defending the ordinary. Warriors prefer to be leading. We lost something along the the way. Some say everything.
So it seems that this isn't about advancing diversity at all. This about today's Marquette looking different than the one you remember. Your belief that your era of Marquette was better than mine or the generation's before me or the one after me.
You claim this about advancing diversity and Marquette "rediscovering their mission" but you pine for a time when over half the students of color on campus were student athletes, graduation and job placement rates for students of color was at an all time low, a racist caricature roamed our sidelines masquerading as a mascot, and coming out as LGBTQ was a death sentence. You simultaneously knock an administration who has increased access for students of color to record highs, improved graduation and job placement rates for students of color, while increasing the amount of resources that specifically cater to minoritized students. Which era of Marquette is more on mission?
While we don't have a crazy coach anymore, we do have one continuing Al's legacy of standing up to racists. Oddly enough, my impression is that the people booing him the loudest for his words on racial justice are those from the Al era. Definitely agree on the untucked jerseys, but that's beyond Marquette's control.
Marquette was a pioneer during Al's time. But frankly, they did the bare minimum of a school truly following the teachings of Jesus and Ignatius Loyola. But that was more than anyone else was doing back then. It was extraordinary because of the context of the times they were living in.
My experience at MU wasn't "ordinary" as you put it. I loved it and during my four years there I was given literal hundreds of opportunities to learn and live social justice. I don't think you give my era or the modern one a fair shake.
To be clear, this is not an attack or a criticism of the Al era. They were pioneers and their work helped build the culture that I enjoyed 30 years later. I love hearing stories about those days and have read about every book there is about Al and that time in our history. I'm just tired of being told that my Marquette experience was lesser, because I loved it. Lesser on the basketball court for sure, but the tradition of social justice is alive and well.
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I think it also involves building the financial resources necessary to survive. Marquette needs to create a stronger bond between itself and its alumni -- something tangible and real -- that would have the effect of building a meaningful endowment. That takes an investment, not only from us but from SE Wisconsin community leaders who want to stay committed to a strong private education in Milwaukee.
We're at a disadvantage because we've never strongly recruited the growing south. As a southern high schooler, I went to Marquette because of a family heritage. The year I went to college, there were three of us Nashvillians who attended my Catholic High School who found their way to Marquette. And two of us were from families who originally were from Wisconsin.
Milwaukee is an interesting place with culture that many southern cities just do not have. We don't have football, but we have a great academic program, hopefully improving basketball and a freedom to explore that does not exist in many college towns. Marquette has a lot going for it, but it requires marketing, money and committed alumni to make it happen.
TAMU can speak to what it means to have committed alumni. Maybe the word is "committed" but those Aggies are really into A&M.
you and TAMU are spot on. My dad was a prof at MU in the ‘80’s & ‘90’s and said even then that MU walks a financial tightrope. I sure hope I’m wrong but I could see MU dropping D-I sports in 10 yrs if things don’t improve. On that end, what you speak of on reaching the Milwaukee and State of WI w/creative and dynamic marketing will be vital to MU’s survival. And, tuition costs have to be corralled.
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btw, my roommate at MU for 2 yrs was the First Warrior. 100% Menomonee Indian. He’s still ticked ‘Warriors’ was dropped. I know this is neither here nor there, just sayin’.
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I am going to have to disagree with some of the thoughts here. I don't think Marquette's issues are Covid or demographic related. I think they are almost entirely self-inflicted. Two years ago Marquette had 2,162 freshman students. This year they have 1,647.
And the number of high school graduates in SE Wisconsin and NW Illinois actually INCREASED over this time.
I mentioned this earlier but I think they are making some poor decisions in the financial aid area. Maybe they thought that students would pay more than they are willing to pay for a Marquette education. Maybe the shine is off Marquette because of the mediocrity of the basketball program. Or maybe they are marketing the wrong things to the wrong audience. I don't know.
But I do know the public universities are REALLY struggling in Wisconsin right now. There is room for a school that pushes Marquette's mission and values. But I think the University is screwing this up.
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I am going to have to disagree with some of the thoughts here. I don't think Marquette's issues are Covid or demographic related. I think they are almost entirely self-inflicted. Two years ago Marquette had 2,162 freshman students. This year they have 1,647.
And the number of high school graduates in SE Wisconsin and NW Illinois actually INCREASED over this time.
I mentioned this earlier but I think they are making some poor decisions in the financial aid area. Maybe they thought that students would pay more than they are willing to pay for a Marquette education. Maybe the shine is off Marquette because of the mediocrity of the basketball program. Or maybe they are marketing the wrong things to the wrong audience. I don't know.
But I do know the public universities are REALLY struggling in Wisconsin right now. There is room for a school that pushes Marquette's mission and values. But I think the University is screwing this up.
I think you are spot-on with the financial aid issues. My friend’s daughter is in the top 5% of her HS class in Champaign IL, and has financial aid offers from U of I, Marquette, and SLU, among others. MU is offering her just over half of what SLU is offering. Her parents are kind of puzzled, and I don’t know what to tell them other than refer to our current financial condition.
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I think you are spot-on with the financial aid issues. My friend’s daughter is in the top 5% of her HS class in Champaign IL, and has financial aid offers from U of I, Marquette, and SLU, among others. MU is offering her just over half of what SLU is offering. Her parents are kind of puzzled, and I don’t know what to tell them other than refer to our current financial condition.
Anecdotally I will say this is been going on for a couple of years, and honestly I don't get it. They know what other schools are offering, and they haven't changed their strategy. Their endowment, though smaller than their peers. isn't THAT bad.
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Anecdotally I will say this is been going on for a couple of years, and honestly I don't get it. They know what other schools are offering, and they haven't changed their strategy. Their endowment, though smaller than their peers. isn't THAT bad.
It’s been that way since the mid 2000s. I got a ton more financial aid offered to me than other similar schools. I chose Marquette anyway. My brother got offered a ton more from other similar schools and chose one of them.
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Hmmm ... looks like I'd better start thinking about which college basketball team I'll start rooting for when Marquette drops D1 sports or, even worse, closes shop entirely.
Oh well ... it's been a good(ish) run.
Seriously, I've gotten something out of a lot of y'all's posts, so thanks. Being as removed as I am from Milwaukee, it's difficult to follow what's going on. The insights here have been valuable. Thanks.
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Note to self: Look to the words against you per post when you win a thread.
Back to the topic. The MU admin will not hire a coach MU fans want as they will not allow the recruitment of the players needed to win.
To follow: Thousands of words from the woke to defend the opposite.
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Note to self: Look to the words against you per post when you win a thread.
Back to the topic. The MU admin will not hire a coach MU fans want as they will not allow the recruitment of the players needed to win.
To follow: Thousands of words from the woke to defend the opposite.
Can you elaborate on the admission requirements? I don’t know much about MU or any other Big East school’s admission policy for athletes, but I’m a little skeptical that MU’s is holding back the program in a significant way. Furthermore it seems like they’ve had plenty talent in the program over the last 7 years. Maybe not elite, but certainly enough talent to be a Top 25 program.
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If Marquette drops D1 sports, that'd be the surest sign of a seismic problem.
Unfortunately, athletic success is one of the strongest predictors of prospective student applications. Butler University was a pretty middling academic institution. They upped their profile significantly after back-to-back NCAA championship games. Villanova, a fairly similar academic institution, is booming in applications, because students want that big campus sports experience.
Universities pay big money for coaches, because the potential return is nearly incalculable. It would take decades to build the reputation of a marketable academic unit and then capitalize on it in any meaningful way. One national championship changes everything on Wisconsin Avenue over night. (Honestly, this fact is likely the most damning of any facts with regard to the present state of advanced education in America.)
While I don't know what this says about Wojo and his status, I do know that were the university to throw in the towel on sports, it's likely a sign that the university is about to become unrecognizably different.
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Can you elaborate on the admission requirements? I don’t know much about MU or any other Big East school’s admission policy for athletes, but I’m a little skeptical that MU’s is holding back the program in a significant way. Furthermore it seems like they’ve had plenty talent in the program over the last 7 years. Maybe not elite, but certainly enough talent to be a Top 25 program.
Of note:
Out: Wade, Mo, Lazar, Todd, Jae, Ooze, Trend, Burke, David C, Junior, Vander, Maymon, Reggie, Buycks, Todd T, R Jax
Maybe: Wes, Jer, JFB, DJO, Dom, Jamil
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Note to self: Look to the words against you per post when you win a thread.
Back to the topic. The MU admin will not hire a coach MU fans want as they will not allow the recruitment of the players needed to win.
To follow: Thousands of words from the woke to defend the opposite.
It takes a lot of words with you because you’ve shifted the goalposts like 18 times in the thread. Hard to lose the thread when every time your point is proven wrong you completely change the argument.
No sports teams have had a JUCO in a decade. Proven wrong.
Great. Glad to see ONE sport has had a JUCO in a decade. MUBB hasn’t in over a decade. Proven wrong.
Great. MU has lost their identity and doesn’t have diversity anymore. Proven wrong.
Great. Other schools similar to Marquette are more diverse. Hey! You got something right!
Back in my time at MU we had our priorities straight at this university!
You got us!
Of note:
Out: Wade, Mo, Lazar, Todd, Jae, Ooze, Trend, Burke, David C, Junior, Vander, Maymon, Reggie, Buycks, Todd T, R Jax
Maybe: Wes, Jer, JFB, DJO, Dom, Jamil
Now this is flat out laughably preposterous.
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It takes a lot of words with you because you’ve shifted the goalposts like 18 times in the thread. Hard to lose the thread when every time your point is proven wrong you completely change the argument.
No sports teams have had a JUCO in a decade. Proven wrong.
Great. Glad to see ONE sport has had a JUCO in a decade. MUBB hasn’t in over a decade. Proven wrong.
Great. MU has lost their identity and doesn’t have diversity anymore. Proven wrong.
Great. Other schools similar to Marquette are more diverse. Hey! You got something right!
Back in my time at MU we had our priorities straight at this university!
You got us!
Now this is flat out laughably preposterous.
Fair. So what's your point? My 18 points are clear. Who's your next coach? Topic
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Back to the topic. The MU admin will not hire a coach MU fans want as they will not allow the recruitment of the players needed to win.
Wojo's problems have not been recruiting the players Marquette needs to win. The idea that the only way you can win is be recruiting Jucos or other marginally academic students is a strange one.
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Wojo's problems have not been recruiting the players Marquette needs to win. The idea that the only way you can win is be recruiting Jucos or other marginally academic students is a strange one.
So, recruiting a DWade, Walton, Whitehead, Lackey, JFB, Jae is "strange"? Got it. What's really "strange" is MU honoring them recently. Stranger yet, is Scoop's solution in this thread is to replace Wojo with coaches who have been successful recruiting "marginally academic students".
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So, recruiting a DWade, Walton, Whitehead, Lackey, JFB, Jae is "strange"? Got it. What's really "strange" is MU honoring them recently. Stranger yet, is Scoop's solution in this thread is to replace Wojo with coaches who have been successful recruiting "marginally academic students".
No. You are being illogical. Just because a player like Jae wouldn't be recruited now, and a player like Wade would either have to spend a year at prep school or attend a Juco, doesn't mean that's the only way a team can win.
Like many, many college programs, Marquette can win with players who fully qualify academically. IMO, they had that team two years ago and they blew it down the stretch.
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Of note:
Out: Wade, Mo, Lazar, Todd, Jae, Ooze, Trend, Burke, David C, Junior, Vander, Maymon, Reggie, Buycks, Todd T, R Jax
Maybe: Wes, Jer, JFB, DJO, Dom, Jamil
Yeah, this list isn't even close to accurate. Jae and Mayo are the only four sure nos. Wade, Buycks, and Trend are the only maybes (if Wade went to prep school, yes.
If he went to juco, maybe) . The rest Wojo would have the green light to recruit. Unless you are implying that Marquette cheated to get the others eligible.
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Of note:
Out: Wade, Mo, Lazar, Todd, Jae, Ooze, Trend, Burke, David C, Junior, Vander, Maymon, Reggie, Buycks, Todd T, R Jax
Maybe: Wes, Jer, JFB, DJO, Dom, Jamil
I get what you’re saying, but what specifically has changed? Has the GPA requirement been raised? Test scores? Prep schools?
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I'm not going to begin to even pretend to understand the inner workings or long-term financial stability of Marquette University. However, just looking at where the Marquette athletics department is positioned today, I have a very hard time understanding and envisioning that it will do anything to allow itself to become de-emphasized and/or eliminated.
Just take a look at the Big East. Marquette University is in the top grouping of enrollment, the top-half of endowment and in the top grouping of academics. If Marquette is in trouble, then an overwhelming majority, if not its entirety of the Big East is in trouble. Marquette, like a majority of the Big East, does not sponsor football - which is, arguably the greatest money loser for the majority of D1 athletic programs. Basketball is the largest revenue generator and marketer for the school. Regardless of the feelings and perceptions of the current leadership of the school, they, too, see and understand this. There was no reason to get involved with Fiserv and continue to host games there if that were not the case, and MU would not be spending as much as it does on the men's basketball (I believe it remains a top-10 program in the country on annual average spending per year) if this remained the case.
I honestly have no clue what the school will choose to do with Wojo. I continue to believe that if the team continues to bottom out, the school - from a financial perspective - will have no choice but to make a change (the projections of empty seats, lower fan support, lower alumni donations and less community engagement will be of higher concern than the immediate expense of a staff buyout, easily). However, the doom and gloomers really need to take a step back and look at some cold hard facts. MU, and the C7, had the opportunity to de-emphasize athletics (namely, basketball) but moving towards the A10 in 2013; they chose not to. MU, and the Big East, are the highest paid non-football conference in the country and have a national television schedule and following. All schools, not just Marquette, are facing a course correction in terms of tuition, enrollment and spending.
The team is not good this year, and that's ok. The trajectory and projection for the program is also not where it should be, and that's ok too. MU Basketball will be back and competing for a top-spot in the Big East soon. We all just need to realize that this is down period and it is absolutely correctable.
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Marquette’s not dropping D1 athletics. That’s nonsense.
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I'm not going to begin to even pretend to understand the inner workings or long-term financial stability of Marquette University. However, just looking at where the Marquette athletics department is positioned today, I have a very hard time understanding and envisioning that it will do anything to allow itself to become de-emphasized and/or eliminated.
Just take a look at the Big East. Marquette University is in the top grouping of enrollment, the top-half of endowment and in the top grouping of academics. If Marquette is in trouble, then an overwhelming majority, if not its entirety of the Big East is in trouble. Marquette, like a majority of the Big East, does not sponsor football - which is, arguably the greatest money loser for the majority of D1 athletic programs. Basketball is the largest revenue generator and marketer for the school. Regardless of the feelings and perceptions of the current leadership of the school, they, too, see and understand this. There was no reason to get involved with Fiserv and continue to host games there if that were not the case, and MU would not be spending as much as it does on the men's basketball (I believe it remains a top-10 program in the country on annual average spending per year) if this remained the case.
I honestly have no clue what the school will choose to do with Wojo. I continue to believe that if the team continues to bottom out, the school - from a financial perspective - will have no choice but to make a change (the projections of empty seats, lower fan support, lower alumni donations and less community engagement will be of higher concern than the immediate expense of a staff buyout, easily). However, the doom and gloomers really need to take a step back and look at some cold hard facts. MU, and the C7, had the opportunity to de-emphasize athletics (namely, basketball) but moving towards the A10 in 2013; they chose not to. MU, and the Big East, are the highest paid non-football conference in the country and have a national television schedule and following. All schools, not just Marquette, are facing a course correction in terms of tuition, enrollment and spending.
The team is not good this year, and that's ok. The trajectory and projection for the program is also not where it should be, and that's ok too. MU Basketball will be back and competing for a top-spot in the Big East soon. We all just need to realize that this is down period and it is absolutely correctable.
You are wrong that it is OK that the team is not good. You are wrong that it is OK that the program is not where it should be. And if Wojo-Dukiet continues to be the coach, you are wrong that basketball will be back. Wojo-Dukiet has taken this program downhill. That is apparent.
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You are wrong that it is OK that the team is not good. You are wrong that it is OK that the program is not where it should be. And if Wojo-Dukiet continues to be the coach, you are wrong that basketball will be back. Wojo-Dukiet has taken this program downhill. That is apparent.
I agree - and I should have clarified: it’s NOT ok where we are or how we have been playing. But those two things will not continue over fear of financial impact. Those two things very much create a larger financial impact.
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Agreed.
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Does it need anything more than the obvious answer?
Its pretty common knowledge that I work for Texas A&M University. That is a much more financially stable institution than Marquette with an endowment that makes Marquette's endowment look like my bank account. We have had to lay off a lot of staff, entire departments have been gutted, budgets cut, merit gone, hiring freezes, etc. And we are as stable financially as it gets in the higher education world.
We are going to see tectonic shift in higher education after the next 10-20 years. There are too many universities, charging too much money, for job prospects that don't make nearly enough to pay off the student loan debt. Plus, its been known for awhile now that there is a demographic shift coming that is going to shrink the amount of students going to college. After the 2008 recession, families, particularly middle class families which produce the bulk of prospective college students, have been having less and less kids. Some regions such as the south are seeing a population surge as people flee from the midwest and east coast, but other regions are about to hit hard with a scarcity of possible enrollees. Universities, particularly liberal arts schools, are going to have to be financially innovative to survive the next couple of decades. Many will close. Wisconsin already had its first causality with Holy Family College up on Mantiwoc closing its doors this year. More will follow. I think Marquette survives because they are still considered a top 100 university but they will need to be creative and smart to make it work.
Excellent points.
Let's not forget that MU is doing everything possible to eliminate elements that made the University unique. Hard to attract students when you are just another liberal arts college in the upper midwest.
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I become more sold on the Moser idea by the minute.
We get a bit of a real-time taste test on Sunday, with Loyola playing @Missouri St. on CBS Sports Net at 2 p.m. CST while MU tips at 2:30 CST on FOX. Will I be the only one flipping back & forth?
Quite the dichotomy thus far if anyone took me up on this lol
I hope the admnin is doing the same!
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At this point, I’d be good with some on this board coaching.
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Quite the dichotomy thus far if anyone took me up on this lol
I hope the admnin is doing the same!
Pump the brakes. Moser is still under .500 in conference at Loyola, barely .500 there and for his career, and his team this year is feasting on a weak schedule. They are are 1-3 in Quad 1/2 games. Their best win is Indiana St, who would be the bottom of the Big East. Missouri St today would be their best win but they are barely a top 75 team. They weren’t really competitive with Wisconsin. Let’s see how they handle Drake
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Pump the brakes. Moser is still under .500 in conference at Loyola, barely .500 there and for his career, and his team this year is feasting on a weak schedule. They are are 1-3 in Quad 1/2 games. Their best win is Indiana St, who would be the bottom of the Big East. Missouri St today would be their best win but they are barely a top 75 team. They weren’t really competitive with Wisconsin. Let’s see how they handle Drake
What some people don't understand, is mentioning Wardle's name, as many have, but not include Moser's in the same sentence. Many mention one without the other.
Moser's teams have had better seasons, every single season than Wardle's overlapping the same six seasons, in the same league. He also has a Final Four, Two Regular Season MVC League Titles, and a 2nd place finish in the past three seasons.
This year appears to be the fourth straight finish at our near the top of their league. They are 16 in Ken Pomeroy, 25 in NCAA Net right now. As of this past week, Gonzaga, SLU, Houston are the only other non Power 5/Big East teams to be top 50 adjusted offense and defense in Ken Pomeroy. They've already swept Bradley at Bradley. Loyola Chicago is (14-3, 9-1) thus far this season.
By contrast Wardle has finished in the top four in the MVC once, and, he's had a winning league record once at Bradley. They are (9-9, 3-6) thus far this season.
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A good place to start for fixing MU's financial troubles is to immediately lay off anyone with the word "administrator" in their title, and replace them with their supervisor at the administrator level of pay.
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A good place to start for fixing MU's financial troubles is to immediately lay off anyone with the word "administrator" in their title, and replace them with their supervisor at the administrator level of pay.
I bet there are exactly zero people working at Marquette with "administrator" in their title.
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I bet there are exactly zero people working at Marquette with "administrator" in their title.
In that case go with coordinator or liason.
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Pump the brakes. Moser is still under .500 in conference at Loyola, barely .500 there and for his career, and his team this year is feasting on a weak schedule. They are are 1-3 in Quad 1/2 games. Their best win is Indiana St, who would be the bottom of the Big East. Missouri St today would be their best win but they are barely a top 75 team. They weren’t really competitive with Wisconsin. Let’s see how they handle Drake
I get all that. Watch them play. They are very well coached. I would like MU to be very well coached too.
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I get all that. Watch them play. They are very well coached. I would like MU to be very well coached too.
Now up to 16 in Pomeroy
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Jamie McNeily
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What some people don't understand, is mentioning Wardle's name, as many have, but not include Moser's in the same sentence. Many mention one without the other.
Moser's teams have had better seasons, every single season than Wardle's overlapping the same six seasons, in the same league. He also has a Final Four, Two Regular Season MVC League Titles, and a 2nd place finish in the past three seasons.
This year appears to be the fourth straight finish at our near the top of their league. They are 22 in Ken Pomeroy, 25 in NCAA Net right now. As of this past week, Gonzaga, SLU, Houston are the only other non Power 5/Big East teams to be top 50 adjusted offense and defense in Ken Pomeroy. They've already swept Bradley at Bradley. Loyola Chicago is (14-3, 9-1) thus far this season.
By contrast Wardle has finished in the top four in the MVC once, and, he's had a winning league record once at Bradley. They are (9-9, 3-6) thus far this season.
Sure. FWIW, I’m not a Wardle guy either. They are both perfectly fine mid major coaches that are in the right spots for them. I’m not eager to hire either. If Wardle didn’t play for Marquette he would be nowhere near the radar. Off radar like he would be for any other BEast or power conference program.
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Sure. FWIW, I’m not a Wardle guy either. They are both perfectly fine mid major coaches that are in the right spots for them. I’m not eager to hire either. If Wardle didn’t play for Marquette he would be nowhere near the radar. Off radar like he would be for any other BEast or power conference program.
Fair enough. I would also add that Moser is clearly a different coach since his assistant stint with Majerus.
It's clear that Moser has had signficantly better results than Wardle thus far, during a similar time frame, in the same league.
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Fair enough. I would also add that Moser is clearly a different coach since his assistant stint with Majerus.
It's clear that Moser has had signficantly better results than Wardle thus far, during a similar time frame, in the same league.
Yep, bring Majerus ball back full circle. It clicked for the guy. His entire roster has buy-in and they look like they're having fun. That's what this program needs.
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Give me Moser over Wardle 18 days a week. I’m confident Moser would have a well coached team on the court. My concern would be whether he can recruit the talent needed to win at a Big East level.
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Give me Moser over Wardle 18 days a week. I’m confident Moser would have a well coached team on the court. My concern would be whether he can recruit the talent needed to win at a Big East level.
I am not sure he is right for us. There is a reason he has found nothing else since the Final Four. Ask people that know about his relationship with Majerus.
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I am not sure he is right for us. There is a reason he has found nothing else since the Final Four. Ask people that know about his relationship with Majerus.
As luck would have it, I know some of those people. Let's just say your implications, and my information aren't similar.
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I am not sure he is right for us. There is a reason he has found nothing else since the Final Four. Ask people that know about his relationship with Majerus.
Anything more you can share? Always thought he just felt comfortable at Loyola
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As luck would have it, I know some of those people.
Do tell!
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Anything more you can share? Always thought he just felt comfortable at Loyola
Not much I can share (a really solid source) but I know his rep in the hoops community is not great.
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Not much I can share (a really solid source) but I know his rep in the hoops community is not great.
As in not a reputable coach? or a d*ck to people? Or a weirdo oddball no one likes?
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Not much I can share (a really solid source) but I know his rep in the hoops community is not great.
No kidding, fascinating.
How much of a laughingstock is Wojo since you’re in the know?
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Do tell!
Let’s just say my “sources” are pretty strong on this one, and, that my information about Majerus and Moser is very different from Gato78’s. Let’s put it this way. I am not uncertain.
But to give you something else that’s more public, about Moser’s job prospects, it’s well documented that Moser turned down UNLV, St. John’s some others to stay at Loyola. He also turned down a few opportunities while an assistant at SLU before taking the job at Loyola Chicago.
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Let’s just say my “sources” are pretty strong on this one, and, that my information about Majerus and Moser is very different from Gato78’s. I am not uncertain.
But to give you something else that’s more public, about Moser’s job prospects, it’s well documented that Moser turned down UNLV, St. John’s some others to stay at Loyola. He also turned down a few opportunities while an assistant at SLU before taking the job at Loyola Chicago. I’m not sure if Gato78 is talking about specific Power 5 positions or something else.
No kidding, fascinating.
How much of a laughingstock is Wojo since you’re in the know?
I am pretty sure of this, too. Perhaps people on different sides of the equation are our sources. Wojo isn’t a laughingstock at all. Now that may be because of his lineage because he is tied at the hip to Coach K but he is not considered a laughingstock by any stretch.
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I am pretty sure of this, too. Perhaps people on different sides of the equation are our sources. Wojo isn’t a laughingstock at all. Now that may be because of his lineage because he is tied at the hip to Coach K but he is not considered a laughingstock by any stretch.
I think we found Lovell’s burner
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I am pretty sure of this, too. Perhaps people on different sides of the equation are our sources. Wojo isn’t a laughingstock at all. Now that may be because of his lineage because he is tied at the hip to Coach K but he is not considered a laughingstock by any stretch.
He’s not a laughingstock but he’s far from highly regarded.
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I am pretty sure of this, too. Perhaps people on different sides of the equation are our sources. Wojo isn’t a laughingstock at all. Now that may be because of his lineage because he is tied at the hip to Coach K but he is not considered a laughingstock by any stretch.
Ok, whew. So glad all the evidence of 7 years isn’t what it seemed to be. Then yes, definitely bring him back as you recommend. Eight seasons will be the charm.
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I am pretty sure of this, too. Perhaps people on different sides of the equation are our sources. Wojo isn’t a laughingstock at all. Now that may be because of his lineage because he is tied at the hip to Coach K but he is not considered a laughingstock by any stretch.
I was trying to be polite and understated. Nope. My "sources" are on "both sides" as well as neutral sides. (Spoiler alert, there are no sides) One of my sources died 8 years ago. A few of that person's closest friends in both St. Louis (as well as the other side) and basketball from 2007-2012, just so happen to be close to me too as luck would have it. My experiences are pretty direct, in the building, at the table, in the gym with both, and others, for long periods.
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I think we found Lovell’s burner
Funny you say that but I am more inclined to say Lovell should go before Wojo. From the deal for the SPorts Performance Center to the fenced off lot that was going to be an athletic center but is now going to be the business school, I have no clue what is going on in the upper reaches.
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Speaking of hot coaches, Casey Alexander is having some fun right now.
Belmont has won 30 of its last 31 games.
As a player he won 30 games three times at Belmont. As a 16 year assistant at Belmont to Rick Byrd, he helped lead the Bruins to 6 of their first 8 NCAA's.
As a coach he led Lipscomb to their first ever NCAA appearance and the NIT Finals.
He is the 2018 Skip Prosser Award Winner.
He won the league and 26 games in his first year back at Belmont last year taking over as Head Coach after Rick Byrd retired.
He has the Bruins in the top 25 in 15 statistical categories. (18-1, 12-0)
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He’s not a laughingstock but he’s far from highly regarded.
He is fast turning himself and the program into a BEast bottom dweller judging by his coaching prowess
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I was trying to be polite and understated. Nope. My "sources" are on "both sides" as well as neutral sides. (Spoiler alert, there are no sides) One of my sources died 8 years ago. A few of that person's closest friends in both St. Louis (as well as the other side) and basketball from 2007-2012, just so happen to be close to me too as luck would have it. My experiences are pretty direct, in the building, at the table, in the gym with both, and others, for long periods.
This makes sense to me, and is the impression I've always gotten (admittedly casually observing from afar)
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No kidding, fascinating.
How much of a laughingstock is Wojo since you’re in the know?
Wojo is no "laughingstock" in the coaching community, and I say this as a "nojo." A "laughingstock" would land a class of Lewis, Garcia, and Oso, nor get a transfer as coveted at Carton. Wojo has not had a losing season since his first at MU and should have been coming off three NCAA tourney bids in four years if not for last year's cancellations. No coach with that record is a "laughingstock." I talked to a D1 coach with WI ties this morning and he was surprised Wojo would be on the hot seat.
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I talked to a D1 coach with WI ties this morning and he was surprised Wojo would be on the hot seat.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/874/713/e35.png)
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Obviously, all of us are very close to Marquette's coaching situation. Even those of us who live far away, or only follow the team casually, know and care a lot more about what's going on at our alma mater than about any other school.
Around the country, however, people don't think Wojo is the worst coach ever -- or that he is even close to being on the proverbial hot seat.
Two basketball writers at The Athletic had a Big East "conversation" that was published today, and the last topic was: How many head coach jobs will open in the Big East after the season?
Their answers:
Charlotte Carroll: The Big East has five coaches who arrived in 2017 or later, and there is a sense of stability in the old names where a lot of turnover seems unlikely. The “Will Jay Wright go to the NBA” talk seems to happen every year, but with the Sixers job filled last offseason, that’s even more unlikely. In terms of more conventional coaching changes, it’s unlikely Georgetown’s Patrick Ewing is going anywhere after an off year, leaving DePaul the most likely and sole opening. The Blue Demons have had just one winning season since Dave Leitao took over the program again in 2015.
C.J. Holmes: The only coach I’d say might be in danger of losing his job is Leitao. The Blue Demons have had just one winning season (19-17, 2018-19) since Leitao returned, and haven’t come close to an NCAA Tournament berth. This season DePaul is 3-7 overall, 1-7 in Big East play and 0-2 against Top 25 opponents — albeit both of those losses came in tight games. Either way it might be time to make a change.
As y'all can see, Wojo wasn't even mentioned.
The only Marquette mention in the entire article was to the question: Which team has been the most disappointing?
Carroll: I don’t know about disappointing but maybe more surprising in a bad way: It has been interesting to see Marquette flip that script. After starting the season 4-1, with a win over then-No. 4 Wisconsin, the Golden Eagles went from Jan. 16 to Tuesday without a win. Yes, it was going to be a difficult year without Markus Howard, but Koby McEwen, Dawson Garcia and D.J. Carton can all play. There’s still plenty of time to finish more middle of the pack, but the last month has been surprising.
Holmes: It has to be Providence. The Friars were picked to finish third in the coaches’ poll and had relatively high expectations entering the season. Well, they’re in sixth place with a disappointing 9-8 record. The most recent loss to a bad Georgetown team last Saturday was just ugly. It really feels like scoring seems to be the issue for this group. Outside of David Duke (18.6 points per game) and Nate Watson (17.6), the Friars just don’t have a lot of offense. They’re 6-0 when they score at least 74 points. When they fall short of that total? 3-8.
Just wanted to bring in a little national perspective.
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The fact that they don’t think Marquette is disappointing and calls the last month “surprising” makes me roll my eyes at their entire perspective. 9-9, 5-7 in conference (only 1 win was against a team in the top half of the conference). Chalking it up to “no Markus” isn’t just lazy, but that alone shows the issue with the team that a coach couldn’t overcome the loss of a star player even with two McD AA and other key contributors returning.
As for the hot seat, I don’t expect people nationally to think that. Their contacts are largely within the university/athletic department, and we know Wojo is bulletproof within those walls
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The fact that they don’t think Marquette is disappointing and calls the last month “surprising” makes me roll my eyes at their entire perspective. 9-9, 5-7 in conference (only 1 win was against a team in the top half of the conference). Chalking it up to “no Markus” isn’t just lazy, but that alone shows the issue with the team that a coach couldn’t overcome the loss of a star player even with two McD AA and other key contributors returning.
As for the hot seat, I don’t expect people nationally to think that. Their contacts are largely within the university/athletic department, and we know Wojo is bulletproof within those walls
Garcia's the only McDAA
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The fact that they don’t think Marquette is disappointing and calls the last month “surprising” makes me roll my eyes at their entire perspective. 9-9, 5-7 in conference (only 1 win was against a team in the top half of the conference). Chalking it up to “no Markus” isn’t just lazy, but that alone shows the issue with the team that a coach couldn’t overcome the loss of a star player even with two McD AA and other key contributors returning.
As for the hot seat, I don’t expect people nationally to think that. Their contacts are largely within the university/athletic department, and we know Wojo is bulletproof within those walls
If that's the case then Wojo isn't on the hot seat. And local people shouldn't think he is on the hot seat either, then.
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It isn't surprising. It is a big picture, global perspective. We all dwell on the trivia and take the losses personally. Nationally, there is not nearly the disappointment in Wojo as there is here.
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The fact that they don’t think Marquette is disappointing and calls the last month “surprising” makes me roll my eyes at their entire perspective. 9-9, 5-7 in conference (only 1 win was against a team in the top half of the conference). Chalking it up to “no Markus” isn’t just lazy, but that alone shows the issue with the team that a coach couldn’t overcome the loss of a star player even with two McD AA and other key contributors returning.
As for the hot seat, I don’t expect people nationally to think that. Their contacts are largely within the university/athletic department, and we know Wojo is bulletproof within those walls
MU was picked sixth preseason by the coaches and national pundits. They are a half game out of 6th.
MU fans expectations are top 3 and steady improvement over 7 years.
The fissure between the two on expectations is not surprising.
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We're all just biased here, and that's normal.
We care about Marquette, are more invested in the situation, than we are about the situation at USC or George Mason or Kentucky. Or even other BEast schools.
Like many (most) others here, I am disappointed in our season. And I am disappointed that Wojo is more likely to get a contract extension than he is to get fired.
But those who follow college basketball for a living -- those who might be "lazy," as Wags says, or those who are pretty connected -- do not see Wojo as an abject failure.
I don't really see him as an "abject failure," either. I think he's done some good things at Marquette. After 7 years with little to show for it, I just think it's time for both sides to move on.
I'd thank him for his service ... and fire him today.
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I’ll expound on the laziness.
I don’t believe it’s necessarily lazy, but Marquette has been so far out of the national spotlight for almost a decade that writers haven’t seen had to pay much attention to the product.
I’m starting to see a shift amongst BE centric pundits as well as BE fans all saying that Wojo has been poor.
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I’ll expound on the laziness.
I don’t believe it’s necessarily lazy, but Marquette has been so far out of the national spotlight for almost a decade that writers haven’t seen had to pay much attention to the product.
I’m starting to see a shift amongst BE centric pundits as well as BE fans all saying that Wojo has been poor.
An All-American, NPOY candidate, and greatest scorer the Big East conference has ever witnessed played for Marquette 11 months ago.
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An All-American, NPOY candidate, and greatest scorer the Big East conference has ever witnessed played for Marquette 11 months ago.
the program as a whole has been out of the spotlight, not one player. We're just another BE program that isn't Villanova right now.
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I’ll expound on the laziness.
I don’t believe it’s necessarily lazy, but Marquette has been so far out of the national spotlight for almost a decade that writers haven’t seen had to pay much attention to the product.
I’m starting to see a shift amongst BE centric pundits as well as BE fans all saying that Wojo has been poor.
And this has happened primarily with Wojo-Dukiet. He has taken the program downhill. Call it a laughingstock, disappointment, embarrassment, disgrace, whatever, it is unacceptable for MU, and time to do something about it.
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An All-American, NPOY candidate, and greatest scorer the Big East conference has ever witnessed played for Marquette 11 months ago.
The last time we’ve been ranked in the AP pre season poll was 2013/14.
In season, we’ve made it as high as 10th in 2018/19 and 18th in 19/20.
We haven’t been ranked in the AP post season poll since 2012/13.
We haven’t won a tournament game since 2012/13.
The program is out of the national spotlight and has been for the majority of the last seven years.
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The last time we’ve been ranked in the AP pre season poll was 2013/14.
In season, we’ve made it as high as 10th in 2018/19 and 18th in 19/20.
We haven’t been ranked in the AP post season poll since 2012/13.
We haven’t won a tournament game since 2012/13.
The program is out of the national spotlight and has been for the majority of the last seven years.
.....and Wojo-Dukiet lost the Hauser Bros..
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So are we getting Shaka or no?
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So are we getting Shaka or no?
Rick Pitino, your table is ready!
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the program as a whole has been out of the spotlight, not one player. We're just another BE program that isn't Villanova right now.
THIS is my biggest problem with how we've performed the last few years. Marquette basketball is just another program right now, not the dynamic, exciting squad I remember from my undergrad years (08-12). No one outside of Milwaukee cares. Hell, even people IN Milwaukee don't care. Even when we had a transcendent, award winning player, no one cared.
All I want is to wake up on Monday excited to see where we land in the AP poll.
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THIS is my biggest problem with how we've performed the last few years. Marquette basketball is just another program right now, not the dynamic, exciting squad I remember from my undergrad years (08-12). No one outside of Milwaukee cares. Hell, even people IN Milwaukee don't care. Even when we had a transcendent, award winning player, no one cared.
All I want is to wake up on Monday excited to see where we land in the AP poll.
Again, this is recency bias.
People "cared" for most of the 2018-19 season, which was just 2 years ago.
When we were going 20-2 and (seemingly) closing in on a conference title, a national panel of sportswriters ranked us in the top 10. Pundits and bracketologists were talking about us possibly being a top-2 seed. Markus was a big national story. The Hausers were getting national pub, especially Sam after the shot against Creighton. And after the season, despite the late collapse and ad loss to Ja Morant, we were projected as a top-5 team in "too early for 2019-20" articles.
And even after Hausershima, we moved back into the top 20 last season and got noticed for a very good recruiting class.
But sure, we're not as nationally recognized as we were during Buzz's best seasons or 2003 or some other post-Al stretches.
A lot of work to get us back there, and I agree with your frustrations.
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The last time we’ve been ranked in the AP pre season poll was 2013/14.
In season, we’ve made it as high as 10th in 2018/19 and 18th in 19/20.
We haven’t been ranked in the AP post season poll since 2012/13.
We haven’t won a tournament game since 2012/13.
The program is out of the national spotlight and has been for the majority of the last seven years.
So the attention the program got the last two seasons battling for a conference title and having an All-American counts for nothing in your assessment?
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It isn't surprising. It is a big picture, global perspective. We all dwell on the trivia and take the losses personally. Nationally, there is not nearly the disappointment in Wojo as there is here.
MU doesn't really register in national discussions. From the national perspective they are like any other middle of the pack high major team. If they finished in dead last it would register, otherwise, probs not.
If you take this perspective, Wojo might be the coach for the next 30 years
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So the attention the program got the last two seasons battling for a conference title and having an All-American counts for nothing in your assessment?
Yes Marquette was relevant in 18/19. In seven years that has been that’s been their only stretch which warranted national attention. It ended in the program receiving national attention for all the wrong reasons, collapse down the stretch when they couldn’t win one game in their last 4 to clinch the BE and two of their best players ended up transferring.
How much national attention is player like Scottie Pippen Jr or Matthew Hurt garnering? Great players on average/bad teams aren’t a national media talking piece. Markus, as much as you and I believe differently, didn’t receive the close to the attention he deserved because Marquette wasn’t that great last year.
*Edit Markus didn’t even win POY in the BE last year even though he was better than Powell by every metric. That’s example A of lack of national recognition.
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So the attention the program got the last two seasons battling for a conference title and having an All-American counts for nothing in your assessment?
We didn’t get as much attention as you seem to think we did.
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We didn’t get as much attention as you seem to think we did.
Compared to whom? Certainly not a top 10 team or a blue blood but Markus got us plenty of attention.
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Rick Pitino, your table is ready!
Milwaukee needs to up its Italian restaurant game immediately.
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Milwaukee needs to up its Italian restaurant game immediately.
Does anyone know if Porcini's is really any better than Balestreri's?
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Pitino is a devout Catholic. The brothel / dorm he ran at Louisville was named after his deceased BIL, who was also Catholic.
We could do worse.
Did I mention he’s a devout Catholic AND his BIL died on 9/11?
Saying no to Rick is like denouncing Catholicism & being a 9/11 truther. We’re not Aaron Rodgers! #HireRickPitino
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Does anyone know if Porcini's is really any better than Balestreri's?
Ask Pitino. Hear he has had ample exposure.
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Does anyone know if Porcini's is really any better than Balestreri's?
Depends on da broads involved, aina?
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Yes Marquette was relevant in 18/19. In seven years that has been that’s been their only stretch which warranted national attention. It ended in the program receiving national attention for all the wrong reasons, collapse down the stretch when they couldn’t win one game in their last 4 to clinch the BE and two of their best players ended up transferring.
How much national attention is player like Scottie Pippen Jr or Matthew Hurt garnering? Great players on average/bad teams aren’t a national media talking piece. Markus, as much as you and I believe differently, didn’t receive the close to the attention he deserved because Marquette wasn’t that great last year.
*Edit Markus didn’t even win POY in the BE last year even though he was better than Powell by every metric. That’s example A of lack of national recognition.
So, we've gone from lack of national spotlight in a decade to seven years to six years.........
And, Howard not winning POY last year had nothing to do with lack of national recognition. He was an All-American for christ's sake! Can't get any more "national attention" then that! It had to do with an NYC metro guy in the Big East conference having built-in hype as the Pre-Season POY and his team winning a share of the title.
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Yeah, I mean the only programs that get any significant "national attention" are Duke and Kentucky and then to a lesser extent UNC, Gonzaga (now), Kansas, Villanova, Michigan State, and Louisville
Then obviously each year there are teams that get a ton of "national attention" when they're having good years. Like Alabama and Baylor this year. Which is the group Marquette falls into. When they were at their peak under Buzz, they'd get a lot of attention when they were rising in the rankings.
To pretend we were some near blue blood that has now fallen to on par with Washington State is just not real life. We haven't been in that top or second group since Al was at Marquette.
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America has become very calendarized, sportswise. Like it or not, college basketball in the national sporting conscious has become a 3-week sport. We have not been relevant in those 3 weeks since 2013.
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So, we've gone from lack of national spotlight in a decade to seven years to six years.........
And, Howard not winning POY last year had nothing to do with lack of national recognition. He was an All-American for christ's sake! Can't get any more "national attention" then that! It had to do with an NYC metro guy in the Big East conference having built-in hype as the Pre-Season POY and his team winning a share of the title.
Nothing to do with NYC Metro guy or pre-season hype and everything to do with his team winning a share of the title. To the winner go the spoils.
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So, we've gone from lack of national spotlight in a decade to seven years to six years.........
And, Howard not winning POY last year had nothing to do with lack of national recognition. He was an All-American for christ's sake! Can't get any more "national attention" then that! It had to do with an NYC metro guy in the Big East conference having built-in hype as the Pre-Season POY and his team winning a share of the title.
BE POY is determined by the coaches...
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Nothing to do with NYC Metro guy or pre-season hype and everything to do with his team winning a share of the title. To the winner go the spoils.
In 2018-2019, Shamorie Ponds was the Pre-Season POY and St. John's went on to a sub-.500 record and he still got votes in March for POY. October selection had no effect in March? No built-in bias for voters?
In fact, Marquette famously didn't win the title that year and yet Markus Howard was the POY. How do we explain the winner not getting the spoils in that season?
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In 2018-2019, Shamorie Ponds was the Pre-Season POY and St. John's went on to a sub-.500 record and he still got votes in March for POY. October selection had no effect in March? No built-in bias for voters?
In fact, Marquette famously didn't win the title that year and yet Markus Howard was the POY. How do we explain the winner not getting the spoils in that season?
Once again, the coaches are the only voters. It’s not a media selection.
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Gary Parrish was on CBS talking about how Markus was on track to win NPOY right around this time last year. He talked about how Marquette's expectations crashed when the Hausers left but Markus was carrying the team to a better performance than expected and he was the frontrunner for NPOY.
Again, Marquette's standing nationally has not changed. They haven't been a top tier program that gets publicity no matter the results on the court since Al left. If they were to compete for a BE title next year, they'll get the same amount of national attention that they were when Buzz was taking the program to 3 straight Sweet 16s. If they continue to be mediocre they'll get talked about when they get a big win (there was plenty of national attention when they had the tip in against UW, and even the win at Creighton) and not much more. Just like all but maybe 10 programs in the country.
This idea that we went from blue blood status to a nobody is ludicrous.
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Gary Parrish was on CBS talking about how Markus was on track to win NPOY right around this time last year. He talked about how Marquette's expectations crashed when the Hausers left but Markus was carrying the team to a better performance than expected and he was the frontrunner for NPOY.
Again, Marquette's standing nationally has not changed. They haven't been a top tier program that gets publicity no matter the results on the court since Al left. If they were to compete for a BE title next year, they'll get the same amount of national attention that they were when Buzz was taking the program to 3 straight Sweet 16s. If they continue to be mediocre they'll get talked about when they get a big win (there was plenty of national attention when they had the tip in against UW, and even the win at Creighton) and not much more. Just like all but maybe 10 programs in the country.
This idea that we went from blue blood status to a nobody is ludicrous.
If only Wojo would start winning, our program would be viewed in the same light the Buzz’s teams were.
But yes Wades, our program stature has not changed at all.....
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Gary Parrish was on CBS talking about how Markus was on track to win NPOY right around this time last year. He talked about how Marquette's expectations crashed when the Hausers left but Markus was carrying the team to a better performance than expected and he was the frontrunner for NPOY.
Again, Marquette's standing nationally has not changed. They haven't been a top tier program that gets publicity no matter the results on the court since Al left. If they were to compete for a BE title next year, they'll get the same amount of national attention that they were when Buzz was taking the program to 3 straight Sweet 16s. If they continue to be mediocre they'll get talked about when they get a big win (there was plenty of national attention when they had the tip in against UW, and even the win at Creighton) and not much more. Just like all but maybe 10 programs in the country.
This idea that we went from blue blood status to a nobody is ludicrous.
And a good way to test this theory is to ask random people where Marquette is. You're spot on.
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But yes Wades, our program stature has not changed at all.....
He never said that.
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Gary Parrish was on CBS talking about how Markus was on track to win NPOY right around this time last year. He talked about how Marquette's expectations crashed when the Hausers left but Markus was carrying the team to a better performance than expected and he was the frontrunner for NPOY.
Again, Marquette's standing nationally has not changed. They haven't been a top tier program that gets publicity no matter the results on the court since Al left. If they were to compete for a BE title next year, they'll get the same amount of national attention that they were when Buzz was taking the program to 3 straight Sweet 16s. If they continue to be mediocre they'll get talked about when they get a big win (there was plenty of national attention when they had the tip in against UW, and even the win at Creighton) and not much more. Just like all but maybe 10 programs in the country.
This idea that we went from blue blood status to a nobody is ludicrous.
There's definitely a lot of room for between "on the cusp of blue blood" and "our status hasn't changed"
We were top 10 for at least a week in 07, 08, 09, 12, & 13, plus had three 2nd weekend appearances in a row and sprinkled in there were the 06 and 10 tournament appearances and a not too distant memory of the Wade final four. It was for sure a different situation.
Were we on the cusp of being a blue blood? No we weren't. We were on the cusp of a on paper great season (coach, returners, recruiting class) and felt we were too big to fail. But we were for sure getting more publicity then.
I think a prime way to explain it is do you remember how long it took in 2014 to stop receiving votes? And how there were articles about what was wrong and how long we were on the bubble? These days, we have to play our way onto receiving votes and getting articles that we didn't at the time.
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There's definitely a lot of room for between "on the cusp of blue blood" and "our status hasn't changed"
We were top 10 for at least a week in 07, 08, 09, 12, & 13, plus had three 2nd weekend appearances in a row and sprinkled in there were the 06 and 10 tournament appearances and a not too distant memory of the Wade final four. It was for sure a different situation.
Were we on the cusp of being a blue blood? No we weren't. We were on the cusp of a on paper great season (coach, returners, recruiting class) and felt we were too big to fail. But we were for sure getting more publicity then.
I agree. The results have changed. But the perception of where the program is, or the "reputation" of Marquette's basketball program nationally, has been pretty much unchanged since Tom Crean rebuilt the program. And possibly before then, but I was too young to be aware of how Marquette was viewed.
The point is, this idea that Wojo has "tarnished" the "reputation" of Marquette basketball is just a joke. The same level of player is still interested in Marquette. His lack of success hasn't changed the ability to get highly ranked/recruited players to come play at Marquette. And the national media's view of Marquette isn't that it's fallen off a cliff. And if Wojo were to get fired or move on after this season, the level of coaching candidate that would be interested in the job would be pretty much the exact same as it was when Buzz left, and when Crean left. Some decent at best high major coaches might be in the mix, some very high level assistants would be in the mix, and some solid mid major coaches looking to move up a level would be in the mix.
It's not like we've gone from a program where any coach in America would run to take over the program to turning into someone like St. John's where you go through your first 5 candidates and then have to fall back (which probably turned out to be the best hire they could've made).
People talk like Wojo took it from nearly a blue blood to spending no money, being unattractive to both media and to potential coaching candidates and unattractive to recruits. That Wojo is setting up the next person who takes over the program to have to go through some giant Tom Crean style rebuild of the program. That's just not the case. Everything is still very much in place to win at Marquette. Marquette basketball is not some damaged goods. It needs to start winning, and the right coach will be able to do so.
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I agree. The results have changed. But the perception of where the program is, or the "reputation" of Marquette's basketball program nationally, has been pretty much unchanged since Tom Crean rebuilt the program. And possibly before then, but I was too young to be aware of how Marquette was viewed.
The point is, this idea that Wojo has "tarnished" the "reputation" of Marquette basketball is just a joke. The same level of player is still interested in Marquette. His lack of success hasn't changed the ability to get highly ranked/recruited players to come play at Marquette. And the national media's view of Marquette isn't that it's fallen off a cliff. And if Wojo were to get fired or move on after this season, the level of coaching candidate that would be interested in the job would be pretty much the exact same as it was when Buzz left, and when Crean left. Some decent at best high major coaches might be in the mix, some very high level assistants would be in the mix, and some solid mid major coaches looking to move up a level would be in the mix.
It's not like we've gone from a program where any coach in America would run to take over the program to turning into someone like St. John's where you go through your first 5 candidates and then have to fall back (which probably turned out to be the best hire they could've made).
People talk like Wojo took it from nearly a blue blood to spending no money, being unattractive to both media and to potential coaching candidates and unattractive to recruits. That Wojo is setting up the next person who takes over the program to have to go through some giant Tom Crean style rebuild of the program. That's just not the case. Everything is still very much in place to win at Marquette. Marquette basketball is not some damaged goods. It needs to start winning, and the right coach will be able to do so.
Fair enough.
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Honestly, I think if Wojo were fired after this year, the national media would be surprised. I don't think they would collectively feel that Wojo was as big of a failure as the Scoop collective does.
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Milwaukee needs to up its Italian restaurant game immediately.
Zaretti’s on the east side is great. Can’t imagine Milwaukee’s situation is worse than Louisville.
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Honestly, I think if Wojo were fired after this year, the national media would be surprised. I don't think they would collectively feel that Wojo was as big of a failure as the Scoop collective does.
I don't agree. The national media is attracted to a story. Wojo isnt one. MU is off the radar, the admin hasnt said anything controversial and neither has Wojo. Nothing to speak of to write about because its not like fans are booing at games either. Namely its not a story because it appears MU is fine with the level of performance.
If Wojo got fired we would probably get a collective shrug - not one of surprise.
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I don't agree. The national media is attracted to a story. Wojo isnt one. MU is off the radar, the admin hasnt said anything controversial and neither has Wojo. Nothing to speak of to write about because its not like fans are booing at games either. Namely its not a story because it appears MU is fine with the level of performance.
If Wojo got fired we would probably get a collective shrug - not one of surprise.
Agree, It's only a story if your team is relevant in the college basketball landscape. Our BPI is 85, next to schools like UAB, Grand Canyon, UNC Greensboro, Belmont, Duquesne and Liberty.
In addition, Marquette isn't in a Power 5 conference, doesn't have a contract with ESPN, Doesn't have Markus Howard (or another POW candidate) and hasn't won a NCAA tournament game since 2013.
We're about as irrelevant as it gets
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I don't agree. The national media is attracted to a story. Wojo isnt one. MU is off the radar, the admin hasnt said anything controversial and neither has Wojo. Nothing to speak of to write about because its not like fans are booing at games either. Namely its not a story because it appears MU is fine with the level of performance.
If Wojo got fired we would probably get a collective shrug - not one of surprise.
I also think writers are pretty cautious about suggesting someone should be fired or on the hot seat. I’m guessing coaches are one of their primary sources of info, so wouldn’t want to burn that bridge.
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Does the administration care whether the men's basketball program is relevant or not, hey?
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I don't agree. The national media is attracted to a story. Wojo isnt one. MU is off the radar, the admin hasnt said anything controversial and neither has Wojo. Nothing to speak of to write about because its not like fans are booing at games either. Namely its not a story because it appears MU is fine with the level of performance.
If Wojo got fired we would probably get a collective shrug - not one of surprise.
Well, I don't think we are going to fine out because I doubt he will be gone after this year, but my point is that in general college basketball people don't view that Wojo is doing a poor job. I can't find a single article anywhere suggesting that he is on the hot seat now. So there will be surprise.
"Oh my God I can't believe they fired him!" No.
"Oh wow I didn't see that coming." Definitely.
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Does the administration care whether the men's basketball program is relevant or not, hey?
Of course. Because they didn't fire him when exactly?
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Agree, It's only a story if your team is relevant in the college basketball landscape. Our BPI is 85, next to schools like UAB, Grand Canyon, UNC Greensboro, Belmont, Duquesne and Liberty.
In addition, Marquette isn't in a Power 5 conference, doesn't have a contract with ESPN, Doesn't have Markus Howard (or another POW candidate) and hasn't won a NCAA tournament game since 2013.
We're about as irrelevant as it gets
Not sure being a Power 5 or having a contract with ESPN makes you more relevant. I'd bet MU has more nationally televised games than most P5 schools.
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Zaretti’s on the east side is great. Can’t imagine Milwaukee’s situation is worse than Louisville.
I have always enjoyed Calderone Club before MU games
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Agree, It's only a story if your team is relevant in the college basketball landscape. Our BPI is 85, next to schools like UAB, Grand Canyon, UNC Greensboro, Belmont, Duquesne and Liberty.
In addition, Marquette isn't in a Power 5 conference, doesn't have a contract with ESPN, Doesn't have Markus Howard (or another POW candidate) and hasn't won a NCAA tournament game since 2013.
We're about as irrelevant as it gets
How many schools have POW candidates? Obviously West Point Annapolis and Air Force Academy, probably Citadel. I don't think many ROTC guys play D1 Basketball so as of now probably not many POW candidates in the country but maybe if we start a draft?
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And a good way to test this theory is to ask random people where Marquette is. You're spot on.
you could do the same with Gonzaga and Villanova. Point?
Hell, many fans can't even pronounce "Gonzaga" correctly.
Agree, It's only a story if your team is relevant in the college basketball landscape. Our BPI is 85, next to schools like UAB, Grand Canyon, UNC Greensboro, Belmont, Duquesne and Liberty.
In addition, Marquette isn't in a Power 5 conference, doesn't have a contract with ESPN, Doesn't have Markus Howard (or another POW candidate) and hasn't won a NCAA tournament game since 2013.
We're about as irrelevant as it gets
We're struggling this year but hardly "irrelevant." We're on FS1 and Fox frequently. All of our conference games are broadcast somewhere for national viewing. The A-10's primary broadcast network is shutting down. That's closer to irrelevant than MU will ever be.
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you could do the same with Gonzaga and Villanova. Point?
Hell, many fans can't even pronounce "Gonzaga" correctly.
We're struggling this year but hardly "irrelevant." We're on FS1 and Fox frequently. All of our conference games are broadcast somewhere for national viewing. The A-10's primary broadcast network is shutting down. That's closer to irrelevant than MU will ever be.
Or the AAC, that most games are behind a paywall.
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I also think writers are pretty cautious about suggesting someone should be fired or on the hot seat. I’m guessing coaches are one of their primary sources of info, so wouldn’t want to burn that bridge.
Nah. Every year, every major national media outlet keeps a running list of "coaches on the hot seat," and regularly writes articles about them. In another thread, I quoted from one such article in The Athletic just a couple days ago. Wojo wasn't mentioned; he very well could be before and during next season if this season ends poorly.
There might be a writer here or there who doesn't want to "burn" one or two coaches, but I disagree they would leave such coaches out of these kinds of discussions. There will always be the next coach. I mean, I really liked Tim Floyd and Craig Hartsburg and Bruce Weber, but it was pretty obvious they had to go, and I said so.
I also disagree that there would be a "shrug" if Marquette fired Wojo. He is a big name in college basketball, and Marquette is still a relevant program.
Many folks here are too close to the situation, and too upset/frustrated/disappointed/apathetic to understand the national perspective. I agree with Sultan that the national media would be surprised if he got fired.
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you could do the same with Gonzaga and Villanova. Point?
Hell, many fans can't even pronounce "Gonzaga" correctly.
We're struggling this year but hardly "irrelevant." We're on FS1 and Fox frequently. All of our conference games are broadcast somewhere for national viewing. The A-10's primary broadcast network is shutting down. That's closer to irrelevant than MU will ever be.
Would you consider Pitt a relevant basketball program? I wouldn't. they happen to be ahead of right now in BPI and they're a state school in a P5 conference
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Would you consider Pitt a relevant basketball program? I wouldn't. they happen to be ahead of right now in BPI and they're a state school in a P5 conference
And Colgate is ahead of Kentucky. And Davidson is ahead of Louisville. And St. Bonaventure is ahead of Michigan State.
And Wojo at Marquette is way ahead of Crean at Georgia and Buzz at Texas A&M.
Does that mean Kentucky, Louisville, Michigan State, Crean and Buzz aren't "relevant"?
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Maybe after firing Wojo, we can hire former state basketball hero Terry Porter. He's available!
Portland fired coach Terry Porter on Friday midway through his fifth season with the program.
Porter, a former NBA All-Star, will be replaced by assistant Ben Johnson through the rest of the year. The Pilots are 6-11 this season and are set to host Pepperdine on Saturday.
"Ultimately, it was decided that it was best to move forward now and focus on the future of the program and the search for the next head coach," Portland vice president for athletics Scott Leykam said in a statement.
Porter, hired at Portland in 2016, never compiled a winning season. He finished 43-103, and never won more than four West Coast Conference games in a single season. The Pilots have won only one conference game in the past three seasons.
Porter, 57, was in the NBA for 17 seasons from 1985-2002. He spent 10 seasons with the Portland Trail Blazers, who took him in the first round of the 1985 draft, and then finished with stints in Minnesota, Miami and San Antonio. The two-time All-Star averaged 12.2 points and 5.6 assists per game throughout his career.
Porter coached briefly in the NBA, too, spending two seasons with the Milwaukee Bucks and almost a full season with the Phoenix Suns. He also worked as an assistant with the Sacramento Kings and Timberwolves.
Now THAT is a failure.
It's also an example of a university making a change in the middle of the season, something I think Marquette should do right now. Today.
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Maybe after firing Wojo, we can hire former state basketball hero Terry Porter. He's available!
Portland fired coach Terry Porter on Friday midway through his fifth season with the program.
Porter, a former NBA All-Star, will be replaced by assistant Ben Johnson through the rest of the year. The Pilots are 6-11 this season and are set to host Pepperdine on Saturday.
"Ultimately, it was decided that it was best to move forward now and focus on the future of the program and the search for the next head coach," Portland vice president for athletics Scott Leykam said in a statement.
Porter, hired at Portland in 2016, never compiled a winning season. He finished 43-103, and never won more than four West Coast Conference games in a single season. The Pilots have won only one conference game in the past three seasons.
Porter, 57, was in the NBA for 17 seasons from 1985-2002. He spent 10 seasons with the Portland Trail Blazers, who took him in the first round of the 1985 draft, and then finished with stints in Minnesota, Miami and San Antonio. The two-time All-Star averaged 12.2 points and 5.6 assists per game throughout his career.
Porter coached briefly in the NBA, too, spending two seasons with the Milwaukee Bucks and almost a full season with the Phoenix Suns. He also worked as an assistant with the Sacramento Kings and Timberwolves.
Now THAT is a failure.
It's also an example of a university making a change in the middle of the season, something I think Marquette should do right now. Today.
porter was a great high school baller out of Milwaukee and D-III champ under Dick Bennett at UW-Stevens Point. Wondering if DeVries from Drake might be lured to MU? He’s an Iowa guy through & through, but 18-0 on this season, 62 wins in less than 3 seasons is impressive, to say the least. I would hope MU makes a call. Would be derelict not to. Another guy? UW-Milwaukee coach Pat Baldwin. He’s a good coach keeping a lousy program afloat, and who knows, maybe his son would follow Dad.
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In 2018-2019, Shamorie Ponds was the Pre-Season POY and St. John's went on to a sub-.500 record and he still got votes in March for POY. October selection had no effect in March? No built-in bias for voters?
In fact, Marquette famously didn't win the title that year and yet Markus Howard was the POY. How do we explain the winner not getting the spoils in that season?
Booth wasn't as close to Markus as Powell was by the numbers, and we were a close second in 2018-19, while having a losiing record in 19-20. I'd have voted for Markus in 19 and Powell in 20.
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porter was a great high school baller out of Milwaukee and D-III champ under Dick Bennett at UW-Stevens Point. Wondering if DeVries from Drake might be lured to MU? He’s an Iowa guy through & through, but 18-0 on this season, 62 wins in less than 3 seasons is impressive, to say the least. I would hope MU makes a call. Would be derelict not to. Another guy? UW-Milwaukee coach Pat Baldwin. He’s a good coach keeping a lousy program afloat, and who knows, maybe his son would follow Dad.
With all due respect, this is probably the worst suggestion in this thread. “Good coach”? Perhaps but nothing about his time at UWM suggests this. He was a mid level assistant who has taken over a bad program and has had them finish in the top half of a BAD conference just once in 3 years and never even got to .500 in conference. He wouldn’t be on the radar if Marquette was a mid level team in the AAC, much less where we are now. He would make hiring Wardle look like Bill Self in comparison
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Maybe after firing Wojo, we can hire former state basketball hero Terry Porter. He's available!
Portland fired coach Terry Porter on Friday midway through his fifth season with the program.
Wojo to Portland?
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Wojo to Portland?
The reverse Larry?
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With all due respect, this is probably the worst suggestion in this thread. “Good coach”? Perhaps but nothing about his time at UWM suggests this. He was a mid level assistant who has taken over a bad program and has had them finish in the top half of a BAD conference just once in 3 years and never even got to .500 in conference. He wouldn’t be on the radar if Marquette was a mid level team in the AAC, much less where we are now. He would make hiring Wardle look like Bill Self in comparison
Hire him as an assistant to get his kid, but no further.
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porter was a great high school baller out of Milwaukee and D-III champ under Dick Bennett at UW-Stevens Point. Wondering if DeVries from Drake might be lured to MU? He’s an Iowa guy through & through, but 18-0 on this season, 62 wins in less than 3 seasons is impressive, to say the least. I would hope MU makes a call. Would be derelict not to. Another guy? UW-Milwaukee coach Pat Baldwin. He’s a good coach keeping a lousy program afloat, and who knows, maybe his son would follow Dad.
Pat Baldwin! He needs to be fired at Milwaukee.
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With all due respect, this is probably the worst suggestion in this thread. “Good coach”? Perhaps but nothing about his time at UWM suggests this. He was a mid level assistant who has taken over a bad program and has had them finish in the top half of a BAD conference just once in 3 years and never even got to .500 in conference. He wouldn’t be on the radar if Marquette was a mid level team in the AAC, much less where we are now. He would make hiring Wardle look like Bill Self in comparison
ok...how ‘bout the guy at Drake? At least a phone call, yes?
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How soon after the season was Deane fired and how many years was left on his contract? Not sure if that's a known amount or not
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ok...how ‘bout the guy at Drake? At least a phone call, yes?
Moser over DeVries
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Moser over DeVries
I would prefer the former BE assistant.
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MVC Standings:
Loyola 12-1 (17-3)
Drake 9-1 (18-1)
Bradley 4-8 (10-11)
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I have always enjoyed Calderone Club before MU games
Calderone Club beat restaurant downtown. Have heard raving reviews by even national sports pundits on the radio. San Giorgio pizza next door (same owner) also phenomenal. Neopolitan style pizza.
Oh and fire Wojo! Please.
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Calderone Club beat restaurant downtown. Have heard raving reviews by even national sports pundits on the radio. San Giorgio pizza next door (same owner) also phenomenal. Neopolitan style pizza.
Oh and fire Wojo! Please.
Calderone is fine. It's fine, that's it, fine. San Giorgio is pretty good but IMO, not as good as Carini's (east side). The reason Calderone gets pub is bc Gino the owner hooks up Bill Michaels with free food. Bill spreads the word...rinse, lather, repeat.
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Calderone is fine. It's fine, that's it, fine. San Giorgio is pretty good but IMO, not as good as Carini's (east side). The reason Calderone gets pub is bc Gino the owner hooks up Bill Michaels with free food. Bill spreads the word...rinse, lather, repeat.
Bill Michaels has a large eating capacity. He's not called "The Big Unit" for nothin'.
Calderone is fine/good, but Zarletti has the best Italian food downtown IMO, and Zaffiro's has the best pizza.
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I would prefer the former BE assistant.
Wojo was a former ACC assistant. So? DeVries is still wet behind the ears as a HC and hasn't proven a thing in March. I have no interest in being another coach's testing lab yet again. Maybe he can prove otherwise over the next several weeks, I'm open minded.
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I feel like if we move on this year we most likely end up with TJO. I could see a slight possibility of Oats if he really wants return to Wisconsin.
DeVries is a possibility--McDermott and Altman roots. But might just be too much of a "name du jour" than a proven commodity.
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Otz has the same record as Wojo despite playing a much worse schedule. I don't think many people are going to be calling him this offseason.
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I don't know enough about Otzelberger to say he'd be better or worse than Wojo. But he certainly hasn't distinguished himself any more than Wojo has.
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Otz has the same record as Wojo despite playing a much worse schedule. I don't think many people are going to be calling him this offseason.
Any comparisons of coaches needs to be a new possible coach's resume, vs Wojo's resume prior ro Marquette, to make a rough apples to apples comparison. Comparing Wojo's time at Marquette vs someone else prior to Marquette doesn't make much sense.
So it would be Wojo prior to MU vs anyone else prior to MU.
(It is expected that Marquette is not going to get a current Head Coach that is already in Power 5/Big East.)
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After Crean and Buzz, it sure seems like the biggest coaching criteria for MU fans is "will this be a destination job for Coach _____?"
I don't care if it is or isn't. Let's just get a guy in who knows what he's doing and go from there.
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Any comparisons of coaches needs to be a new possible coach's resume, vs Wojo's resume prior ro Marquette, to make a rough apples to apples comparison. Comparing Wojo's time at Marquette vs someone else prior to Marquette doesn't make much sense.
So it would be Wojo prior to MU vs anyone else prior to MU.
(It is expected that Marquette is not going to get a current Head Coach that is already in Power 5/Big East.)
I'm not trying to compare anyone. What I'm speaking to is the reality that usually (not always but in the vast majority of cases) mid-major coaches who are hired by P6 schools are coming off good seasons, not seasons like what Otz is having at UNLV this year. Bringing Wojo into it wasn't to compare him to Otz, it was to show how bad of a season UNLV is having.
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I'm not trying to compare anyone. What I'm speaking to is the reality that usually (not always but in the vast majority of cases) mid-major coaches who are hired by P6 schools are coming off good seasons, not seasons like what Otz is having at UNLV this year. Bringing Wojo into it wasn't to compare him to Otz, it was to show how bad of a season UNLV is having.
And that's fine, and fair, but different. There are sometimes cases where a coach gets a job after a season than wasn't as good as some previous seasons. I don't think it is a deal breaker when that happens, depending on the extreme, and situation.
With TJO, he clearly did well at South Dakota St. winning two league tiles in a short amount of time in a rebuild.
As an assistant at Iowa St., Under both McDermott and Hoiberg, his team success was clearly better under Hoiberg after slow go for a while as a team under McDermott. It remains to be seen what he can do at UNLV.
McDermott is an interesting example of a coach that did well in the MVC at Northern Iowa, left for BIg 12, struggled in four seasons, came back to MVC, did well again, and transitioned better when that team entered the Big East.
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Otz has the same record as Wojo despite playing a much worse schedule. I don't think many people are going to be calling him this offseason.
If you're looking at the MWC, I'd be calling Craig Smith before I called TJO.
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If you're looking at the MWC, I'd be calling Craig Smith before I called TJO.
Personally, I'd call Smith and Medved before Otz. Smith is an interesting choice. Minnesota roots, most of his experience in the midwest prior to his current gig. Been successful at each of his three head coaching stops. I'd be a little nervous though because he's never been any place long enough to see if he can string recruiting cycles together. Could be he's just winning with other coaches players.
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I feel like if we move on this year we most likely end up with TJO. I could see a slight possibility of Oats if he really wants return to Wisconsin.
DeVries is a possibility--McDermott and Altman roots. But might just be too much of a "name du jour" than a proven commodity.
Plus, his AD is Scholls' protege who left MU to take the job at Drake.
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So here's a wildcard option that I haven't seen anyone else discussing yet. He checks a lot of boxes that I think MU or any P6 program would be looking for in a new HC candidate.
- Former All-American player from a P6 powerhouse
- Played 10+ years in the NBA
- Assistant coaching experience for big time programs (with tournament success)
- Proven college recruiter
- Has sent several players to the NBA
- Assistant coaching experience in the NBA
- Current head coach with recent 20+ win season
Nice resume, right? I want that guy.
And who is that guy you might ask? Damon Stoudamire.
https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/ncaa/damon-stoudamire-hired-head-coach-pacific (https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/ncaa/damon-stoudamire-hired-head-coach-pacific)
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So here's a wildcard option that I haven't seen anyone else discussing yet. He checks a lot of boxes that I think MU or any P6 program would be looking for in a new HC candidate.
- Former All-American player from a P6 powerhouse
- Played 10+ years in the NBA
- Assistant coaching experience for big time programs (with tournament success)
- Proven college recruiter
- Has sent several players to the NBA
- Assistant coaching experience in the NBA
- Current head coach with recent 20+ win season
Nice resume, right? I want that guy.
And who is that guy you might ask? Damon Stoudamire.
https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/ncaa/damon-stoudamire-hired-head-coach-pacific (https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/ncaa/damon-stoudamire-hired-head-coach-pacific)
Always liked him as a player. Didn't realize he's been a successful coach.
Sure, put him on the list!
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So here's a wildcard option that I haven't seen anyone else discussing yet. He checks a lot of boxes that I think MU or any P6 program would be looking for in a new HC candidate.
- Former All-American player from a P6 powerhouse
- Played 10+ years in the NBA
- Assistant coaching experience for big time programs (with tournament success)
- Proven college recruiter
- Has sent several players to the NBA
- Assistant coaching experience in the NBA
- Current head coach with recent 20+ win season
Nice resume, right? I want that guy.
And who is that guy you might ask? Damon Stoudamire.
https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/ncaa/damon-stoudamire-hired-head-coach-pacific (https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/ncaa/damon-stoudamire-hired-head-coach-pacific)
Can the MU administration overlook his past? He's also only had one winning season at UOP.
His stint with the Portland Trail Blazers was marred by several marijuana related incidents including one during the 2002–03 season where, with then-starting power forward Rasheed Wallace, his yellow Hummer was pulled over on I-5 for speeding and driving under the influence of marijuana.[14] In July 2003, after his third arrest for marijuana possession, he was fined $250,000 and was suspended by the team for three months.[15] Blazers president Steve Patterson announced that he wanted to void Stoudamire's contract, but did not find a provision in the contract that would allow him to do so.[15]
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Can the MU administration overlook his past? He's also only had one winning season at UOP.
His stint with the Portland Trail Blazers was marred by several marijuana related incidents including one during the 2002–03 season where, with then-starting power forward Rasheed Wallace, his yellow Hummer was pulled over on I-5 for speeding and driving under the influence of marijuana.[14] In July 2003, after his third arrest for marijuana possession, he was fined $250,000 and was suspended by the team for three months.[15] Blazers president Steve Patterson announced that he wanted to void Stoudamire's contract, but did not find a provision in the contract that would allow him to do so.[15]
Oh won't someone please think of the children!
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Can the MU administration overlook his past? He's also only had one winning season at UOP.
His stint with the Portland Trail Blazers was marred by several marijuana related incidents including one during the 2002–03 season where, with then-starting power forward Rasheed Wallace, his yellow Hummer was pulled over on I-5 for speeding and driving under the influence of marijuana.[14] In July 2003, after his third arrest for marijuana possession, he was fined $250,000 and was suspended by the team for three months.[15] Blazers president Steve Patterson announced that he wanted to void Stoudamire's contract, but did not find a provision in the contract that would allow him to do so.[15]
Eh, he got a few tickers 20 years ago. I would hope that wouldn't be a deal-breaker. He's had a lot of success in his post-NBA career, and if I have my timing right, I think he also avoided the scandals that were tied to the schools he was at.
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Can the MU administration overlook his past? He's also only had one winning season at UOP.
His stint with the Portland Trail Blazers was marred by several marijuana related incidents including one during the 2002–03 season where, with then-starting power forward Rasheed Wallace, his yellow Hummer was pulled over on I-5 for speeding and driving under the influence of marijuana.[14] In July 2003, after his third arrest for marijuana possession, he was fined $250,000 and was suspended by the team for three months.[15] Blazers president Steve Patterson announced that he wanted to void Stoudamire's contract, but did not find a provision in the contract that would allow him to do so.[15]
Despite that, he still played another 2 seasons in Portland, including one where he won a bet with a columnist about passing random drug tests during the season, and another 4 in the league after that. He was hardly a bad apple.
As for UOP, not only did he take over a bad team, his predecessor was fired for NCAA violations. He had to rebuild and did a decent job in a short time.
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Despite that, he still played another 2 seasons in Portland, including one where he won a bet with a columnist about passing random drug tests during the season, and another 4 in the league after that. He was hardly a bad apple.
As for UOP, not only did he take over a bad team, his predecessor was fired for NCAA violations. He had to rebuild and did a decent job in a short time.
but is that enough for the MU administration and BOT? I'm not advocating against him (though he'll probably stay on the WC), just trying to get in the heads of the decision makers.
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but is that enough for the MU administration and BOT? I'm not advocating against him (though he'll probably stay on the WC), just trying to get in the heads of the decision makers.
I think it would be, but I agree he won’t come East. He can lock up a Pac12 gig in the next few years if he keeps UOP improving and steady.
Funny enough, his father left his mother to go work at a brewery in Milwaukee. So he probably hated Milwaukee anyways :o
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I didn’t go 25 pages deep here, but I’m assuming we’re all in agreement that the first phone call is to John Beilein.
This should be a layup.
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Can the MU administration overlook his past? He's also only had one winning season at UOP.
His stint with the Portland Trail Blazers was marred by several marijuana related incidents including one during the 2002–03 season where, with then-starting power forward Rasheed Wallace, his yellow Hummer was pulled over on I-5 for speeding and driving under the influence of marijuana.[14] In July 2003, after his third arrest for marijuana possession, he was fined $250,000 and was suspended by the team for three months.[15] Blazers president Steve Patterson announced that he wanted to void Stoudamire's contract, but did not find a provision in the contract that would allow him to do so.[15]
Oh no! A guy smokes pot! Stop the presses
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The next head coach has to have head coaching experience, no question. No more hiring up-and-coming assistants. We struck gold with O'Neill and Crean (you can include Buzz if you want, but he was a HC at New Orleans). Need someone that knows first-hand the role and what it takes to lead a program.
My pool of candidates to reach out to would be Beilein, Matta, Wardle, DeVries, Moser and Nagy. I would also send feelers out to Crean, only because if there is anyone that could sell people on the excitement and potential about MUBB again from day one, it's him. I doubt he would reciprocate interest. It would also be nice to see the program go after a proven P6 standing head coach and not one that is unemployed.
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The next head coach has to have head coaching experience, no question. No more hiring up-and-coming assistants. We struck gold with O'Neill and Crean (you can include Buzz if you want, but he was a HC at New Orleans). Need someone that knows first-hand the role and what it takes to lead a program.
My pool of candidates to reach out to would be Beilein, Matta, Wardle, DeVries, Moser and Nagy. I would also send feelers out to Crean, only because if there is anyone that could sell people on the excitement and potential about MUBB again from day one, it's him. I doubt he would reciprocate interest. It would also be nice to see the program go after a proven P6 standing head coach and not one that is unemployed.
I honestly think Crean would love to come back here. I don’t think that would excite the fan base that much.
I like your list otherwise. Maybe sub Craig Smith for Wardle. I do agree, if he wasn’t an alum, he wouldn’t be mentioned.
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Crean sucks
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Hard to imagine bringing Crean back. We're against Wojo and he's only been getting booed for the past year and a half at home. Crean's been getting that treatment for over a decade already.
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Crean sucks
not as hard as wojo
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Moser is, hands down, my favorite candidate. Their Cinderella run to the Final Four was dismissed as a combination of unusual opportunity with some big teams getting upset in their region and just plain luck. They seemed to have more damn fun than any other team there. It was not a fluke that they did so well and they are proving that this year by being ranked while we whimper in 9th place in the BE.
I've read a number of articles about the Loyola team, camaraderie, and fan loyalty (no pun intended). All teams talk about family, but Loyola is the real deal. That includes everybody- not just the team. If Marquette offers him the job after Wojo is, one way or the other, goneI think Sister Jean simply has [/color]to be part of the package.
Moser is in his 10th year and, if I recall, either interviewed or expressed interest in the St. John's opening. He makes over 1.5 mil so he would not come cheap but I think he might, just might consider leaving Loyola for Marquette.
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Moser is, hands down, my favorite candidate. Their Cinderella run to the Final Four was dismissed as a combination of unusual opportunity with some big teams getting upset in their region and just plain luck. They seemed to have more damn fun than any other team there. It was not a fluke that they did so well and they are proving that this year by being ranked while we whimper in 9th place in the BE.
I've read a number of articles about the Loyola team, camaraderie, and fan loyalty (no pun intended). All teams talk about family, but Loyola is the real deal. That includes everybody- not just the team. If Marquette offers him the job after Wojo is, one way or the other, goneI think Sister Jean simply has [/color]to be part of the package.
Moser is in his 10th year and, if I recall, either interviewed or expressed interest in the St. John's opening. He makes over 1.5 mil so he would not come cheap but I think he might, just might consider leaving Loyola for Marquette.
Regarding fan loyalty, in Moser's 4th year at Loyola, their men's volleyball program had more ticket sales than their men's basketball program.
I've become more open to Moser at Marquette. But I hope he's not our top choice.
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Moser is, hands down, my favorite candidate. Their Cinderella run to the Final Four was dismissed as a combination of unusual opportunity with some big teams getting upset in their region and just plain luck. They seemed to have more damn fun than any other team there. It was not a fluke that they did so well and they are proving that this year by being ranked while we whimper in 9th place in the BE.
I've read a number of articles about the Loyola team, camaraderie, and fan loyalty (no pun intended). All teams talk about family, but Loyola is the real deal. That includes everybody- not just the team. If Marquette offers him the job after Wojo is, one way or the other, goneI think Sister Jean simply has [/color]to be part of the package.
Moser is in his 10th year and, if I recall, either interviewed or expressed interest in the St. John's opening. He makes over 1.5 mil so he would not come cheap but I think he might, just might consider leaving Loyola for Marquette.
Questions: Do the Jesuits waive his buy-out? Next: Is his recruiting network BE worthy? Does it mesh with MU standards?
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Given our track record of consistent top 100 players over the past 22 years, I think our recruiting success is as much due to the school and the infrastructure as it is the coach.
I’m confident that given his Chicago contacts alone Moser could easily trade up in his recruiting circles. Look, Wojo traded down. He never has to compete for a Greg Elliott Type at Duke but he learned to here.
I really believe if we hire Moser we’re looking at a coach who will be here 15 years (he turns 54 after the season) and will get us to two Final Fours.
He’s the guy.
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Given our track record of consistent top 100 players over the past 22 years, I think our recruiting success is as much due to the school and the infrastructure as it is the coach.
I’m confident that given his Chicago contacts alone Moser could easily trade up in his recruiting circles. Look, Wojo traded down. He never has to compete for a Greg Elliott Type at Duke but he learned to here.
I really believe if we hire Moser we’re looking at a coach who will be here 15 years (he turns 54 after the season) and will get us to two Final Fours.
He’s the guy.
Moser's salary is nearly identical to Wojo's which surprised me.
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Moser's salary is nearly identical to Wojo's which surprised me.
He bought Tom Rickett's crib.
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Given our track record of consistent top 100 players over the past 22 years, I think our recruiting success is as much due to the school and the infrastructure as it is the coach.
I’m confident that given his Chicago contacts alone Moser could easily trade up in his recruiting circles. Look, Wojo traded down. He never has to compete for a Greg Elliott Type at Duke but he learned to here.
I really believe if we hire Moser we’re looking at a coach who will be here 15 years (he turns 54 after the season) and will get us to two Final Fours.
He’s the guy.
Thanks Lens! You answered Dr. B's recruiting questions before I got got around to it and answered them much better than I would have, but along the same lines. I will add one more comment though-for Chicago players who want their families see them play, its a fairly short trip to Milwaukee. Just another plus.
A few additional pluses for Moser- clean program? Check. Knows how to work well with a Catholic University? Check. Brings excitement and deep commitment to team? Check. As noted, tourney success (even if it was one spectacular year, so what?) vs. 2 appearances as a 5 seed that got blown out by 12 seeds. They will be in the tourney this year. Marquette will watch them on TV.
Loyola knows what they have, so yes Muggsy, his salary is not far off from Wojo's. They raised it dramatically after the Final Four appearance. If Marquette wants him, they will have to pony up. At 54 years old, he may be just right for a long stay at Marquette and not want to wander.
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I think he's a good option but we may be powerless vs Sister Jean.
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Dennis Gates
Scott Nagy
Niko Medved
Craig Smith
Thad Matta
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What is with a bunch of people dreaming of coaches that would never come to Marquette. Beilein? Matta? You guy are serious with these? Why not add Jim Calhoun to the list too?
You want to know what Marquette will hire? Someone safer than safe. Someone a lot like Wojo. An assistant coach at a P6 school without HC experience.
I'd be shocked if we got someone like Oats, Moser, or Nagy.
Having said all that, there is one exception, and that is Brian Wardle. I'm not advocating for it, but he is exactly the type of guy that MU is looking for.
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What is with a bunch of people dreaming of coaches that would never come to Marquette. Beilein? Matta? You guy are serious with these? Why not add Jim Calhoun to the list too?
You want to know what Marquette will hire? Someone safer than safe. Someone a lot like Wojo. An assistant coach at a P6 school without HC experience.
I'd be shocked if we got someone like Oats, Moser, or Nagy.
Having said all that, there is one exception, and that is Brian Wardle. I'm not advocating for it, but he is exactly the type of guy that MU is looking for.
Wardle was my pick 3 or 4 years ago.
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I'd be surprised if they went the assistant route again. Beilein I don't think is interested in coaching right now. Nor sure about Matta. I think he may be waiting for a specific job and I'm not sure Marquette is it
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What is with a bunch of people dreaming of coaches that would never come to Marquette. Beilein? Matta? You guy are serious with these? Why not add Jim Calhoun to the list too?
You want to know what Marquette will hire? Someone safer than safe. Someone a lot like Wojo. An assistant coach at a P6 school without HC experience.
I'd be shocked if we got someone like Oats, Moser, or Nagy.
Having said all that, there is one exception, and that is Brian Wardle. I'm not advocating for it, but he is exactly the type of guy that MU is looking for.
Correct.
This is MU's path. Always has been. Most likely always will.
Assistant at a major program.
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If you look at Scholl hires for other sports, he has gone the mid-major head coach route more often than not. (Duffy, Theis) The only exception has been Stimmel as lax coach, but he was a former MU assistant.
Like TAMU, I would be very surprised to see them take that route again.
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Dennis Gates
Scott Nagy
Niko Medved
Craig Smith
Thad Matta
This is an interesting list. I think Smith is my top choice of those out there (assuming Oats isn’t looking to get back to WI at all costs).
I like that Gates has experience at a number of schools and seems to be turning Cleveland State around.
I think we go the mid-major head coach route. It seems like there’s a lot more talent there than when Wojo was hired. I feel those talented assistants that we used to hire are becoming head coaches more than in the past.
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Marquette hires Dukiet, Head Coach, smaller program. Perceived to not be a success.
Then Marquette hires Kevin O'Neill, assistant High Major. It''s perceived to be a success.
Marquette hires Mike Deane, a HC of a smaller program. It is not perceived to be a success.
Then Marquette hires Crean, assistant High Major. Perceived to be a success.
Then Marquette hires its own Assistant Buzz.
Marquette hires High Major assistant, Wojo. Perceived to not be a success (so far)
Do you see a pattern?
Seems to go back and forth, especially when either the coach was not perceived to be a success or there exit was not ideal.
This is common in sports. If you are perceived to have success a certain way with coaching changes, there is a tendency to try it again. If you are perceived to not have success with a coaching change, you try something different. This isn't all that different in football, when teams will sometimes hire and offensive or defensive coach if the unsuccessful previous one was the opposite.
Marquette would likely be open to any type of hire. But it would seem they may want some successful HC experience too, running a program, based on the current situation.
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College athletics, much like professional sports, usually sees institutions and organizations move in the opposite direction if a previous hire failed. If the coach was experienced and hot-tempered, they will go with youth and mild-mannered. If they went young, and the inexperience proved fatal, they will inevitably go with someone that has done it before so as to avoid a repeated collapse. In going from Buzz (who was charismatic in his own way and eccentric, with a handful of off-court issues from the team) they went to Wojo (a buttoned-up, successful assistant coach at one of the blue blood programs in the country). It is unequivocally true today that MUBB went down going from Buzz to Wojo, and the school will question what it needs to do differently in the interview process to avoid a repeat.
If there is a change in the next few weeks, the next head coach will have head coaching experience - I am very confident in that prediction. Now, at what level can be anyone's guess, but the school and athletic department will not want to take another gamble on an uncertainty; the program will need experience, success and stability.
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If you look at Scholl hires for other sports, he has gone the mid-major head coach route more often than not. (Duffy, Theis) The only exception has been Stimmel as lax coach, but he was a former MU assistant.
Like TAMU, I would be very surprised to see them take that route again.
Bingo. And I might add: Strong and varied top assistants before their mid-major jobs.
Also, can people get realistic here. If MU cannot afford a payout of $4-6 million for Wojo (guess), why do we think we can afford to pay Oats or another top coach $5 million which will also require a multi-million buy-out to another school?
Lastly, program fit based on academic standards as I have said. A guy who can pull in top players from college prep high schools is the recruiting network MU wants in their criteria. That's not a Nate Oats type either.
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Dennis Gates
Scott Nagy
Niko Medved
Craig Smith
Thad Matta
This is really the path for Marquette. I would add a few names as well. Dennis Gates doesn't get enough discussion.
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Bingo. And I might add: Strong and varied top assistants before their mid-major jobs.
Also, can people get realistic here. If MU cannot afford a payout of $4-6 million for Wojo (guess), why do we think we can afford to pay Oats or another top coach $5 million which will also require a multi-million buy-out to another school?
Lastly, program fit based on academic standards as I have said. A guy who can pull in top players from college prep high schools is the recruiting network MU wants in their criteria. That's not a Nate Oats type either.
How many of Marquette's men's basketball players went to college prep high schools?
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How many of Marquette's men's basketball players went to college prep high schools?
On this one? 100%
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I really believe if we hire Moser we’re looking at a coach who will be here 15 years (he turns 54 after the season) and will get us to two Final Fours.
He’s the guy.
I love the optimism, but let's be a little realistic. If my quick calculations are correct, in the last 15 years of NCAA Tournaments, exactly 15 schools have gone to 2 final fours or more. The coaches from those schools that were involved in 2 or more of the FF's include:
Tom Izzo
Jay Wright
John Beilein
Bill Self
Roy Williams
Jim Boeheim
Coach K
The Grinch from WI
John Calipari
Billy Donovan
Rick Pitino
Thad Matta
Brad Stevens
Ben Howland
Conneticut was the other two time participant, with one trip under Calhoun and one under Ollie via Calhoun. Notably, only three of those 14 coaches were the head coach at schools similarly situated to Marquette, and one of those three is Coach K. The rest coach(ed) at big state schools.
I am not saying it cannot be done, but to "really believe" that we will go to 2 final fours in the next 15 years with a coach that has never coached at a power conference and has been to exactly 2 NCAA tournaments in the last 20 years, is setting yourself up for disappointment. Its like putting it all on the #2 ball in Roulette and reasonably believing that you're going to hit. In fact, odds may be better on the Roulette table.
So, again, I love the optimism. I do think that sort of success can be had at Marquette (look at Jay Wright and Brad Stevens for examples) and that the likelihood of such success is better at Marquette than many other schools in Marquette's weight class, but..... let's be a little realistic?
Or not. All fun conjecture anyway.
EDIT: May also not be realistic, and he may have 0.00% interest, but if I had my way, I'd go all in on Beilein. Class act, with great success.
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Nah, MU is in a disparate situation and needs to make a splash. Plus, the AD has no history here of hirin' a men's head BB coach. MU has the shekels, hey?
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This is really the path for Marquette. I would add a few names as well. Dennis Gates doesn't get enough discussion.
I don't know much about Dennis Gates but what stands out about him? Not much on a quick bio perusal but I'm open minded
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I don't know much about Dennis Gates but what stands out about him? Not much on a quick bio perusal but I'm open minded
Played and coached for well regarded coach Mike Montgomery at Cal. Coached under Leonard Hamilton at FSU. (elite 8, Sweet 16's etc...)He won more games his first year at Cleveland State than they had in many years. Has worked at Marquette before (Crean). He can coach, recruit, was All Academic at one of the country's best Universities. Checks a lot of boxes actually. He's worked in California, Florida, Midwest, etc...is from Chicago. He's 41.
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I love the optimism, but let's be a little realistic. If my quick calculations are correct, in the last 15 years of NCAA Tournaments, exactly 15 schools have gone to 2 final fours or more. The coaches from those schools that were involved in 2 or more of the FF's include:
Tom Izzo
Jay Wright
John Beilein
Bill Self
Roy Williams
Jim Boeheim
Coach K
The Grinch from WI
John Calipari
Billy Donovan
Rick Pitino
Thad Matta
Brad Stevens
Ben Howland
Conneticut was the other two time participant, with one trip under Calhoun and one under Ollie via Calhoun. Notably, only three of those 14 coaches were the head coach at schools similarly situated to Marquette, and one of those three is Coach K. The rest coach(ed) at big state schools.
I am not saying it cannot be done, but to "really believe" that we will go to 2 final fours in the next 15 years with a coach that has never coached at a power conference and has been to exactly 2 NCAA tournaments in the last 20 years, is setting yourself up for disappointment. Its like putting it all on the #2 ball in Roulette and reasonably believing that you're going to hit. In fact, odds may be better on the Roulette table.
So, again, I love the optimism. I do think that sort of success can be had at Marquette (look at Jay Wright and Brad Stevens for examples) and that the likelihood of such success is better at Marquette than many other schools in Marquette's weight class, but..... let's be a little realistic?
Or not. All fun conjecture anyway.
EDIT: May also not be realistic, and he may have 0.00% interest, but if I had my way, I'd go all in on Beilein. Class act, with great success.
UConn has three in the past 15 years by my count two under Calhoun (09,11) one under Ollie.
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Played and coached for well regarded coach Mike Montgomery at Cal. Coached under Leonard Hamilton at FSU. (elite 8, Sweet 16's etc...)He won more games his first year at Cleveland State than they had in many years. Has worked at Marquette before (Crean). He can coach, recruit, was All Academic at one of the country's best Universities. Checks a lot of boxes actually. He's worked in California, Florida, Midwest, etc...is from Chicago. He's 41.
Dennis Gates would be my #1 option and I think many of MU's former players would agree.
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Maebee wee should go after Bill Gates? Mite bea able ta get him cheap, ewe no, wit MU's financials and such, hey?
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Is Shaka Smart having too good of a season to get fired at Texas? I assume that is the case, but I don't follow things too closely.
My two cents, Wojo is staying. This year he gets a pass, but yes, next year will be a year he will need to have a solid season. One early poster on this thread poster quoted Al Davis and his "just win" value system. That won't fly at Marquette, so get used to that if you want to be an MU fan. Wojo checks all of the boxes except one of the main ones, especially this year... but this year will be a year that gets punted.
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Is Shaka Smart having too good of a season to get fired at Texas? I assume that is the case, but I don't follow things too closely.
My two cents, Wojo is staying. This year he gets a pass, but yes, next year will be a year he will need to have a solid season. One early postering this thread poster quoted Al Davis and his "just win" value system. That won't fly at Marquette, so get used to that if you want to be an MU fan. Wojo checks all of the boxes except one of the main ones, especially this year... but this year will be a year that gets punted.
Yeah I would still be surprised to see him ousted.
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Dennis Gates would be my #1 option and I think many of MU's former players would agree.
His year at Marquette was Mike Broeker's first at Marquette. He was therr same time as Diener, Novak, Chapman, Townsend, Merritt, rhe year after the Final Four Team.
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If Woj has any self respect, he bolts, hey?
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If Woj has any self respect, he bolts, hey?
Dead man walking. Can't be healthy to keep showing up for work knowing that everyone there wants you gone, hey?
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Dennis Gates would be my #1 option and I think many of MU's former players would agree.
There’s a name from the past. Yes, he’d be a solid hire for us. Add him to the list!
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Dead man walking. Can't be healthy to keep showing up for work knowing that everyone there wants you gone, hey?
Who at his place of work wants him gone?
Nah, MU is in a disparate situation and needs to make a splash. Plus, the AD has no history here of hirin' a men's head BB coach. MU has the shekels, hey?
Love your optimism, Doc. Make it happen!
Ewe got da konnekshuns and da shekels to dew it fore us, oona boona?
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Who at his place of work wants him gone?
The ones who want what is best for the Marquette men's basketball program. But I'm just guessing here.
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The ones who want what is best for the Marquette men's basketball program. But I'm just guessing here.
Yes you are.
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Yes you are.
Am I wrong?
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Dead man walking. Can't be healthy to keep showing up for work knowing that everyone there wants you gone, hey?
Healthy for his bank account aina?
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I love the optimism, but let's be a little realistic. If my quick calculations are correct, in the last 15 years of NCAA Tournaments, exactly 15 schools have gone to 2 final fours or more. The coaches from those schools that were involved in 2 or more of the FF's include:
Tom Izzo
Jay Wright
John Beilein
Bill Self
Roy Williams
Jim Boeheim
Coach K
The Grinch from WI
John Calipari
Billy Donovan
Rick Pitino
Thad Matta
Brad Stevens
Ben Howland
Conneticut was the other two time participant, with one trip under Calhoun and one under Ollie via Calhoun. Notably, only three of those 14 coaches were the head coach at schools similarly situated to Marquette, and one of those three is Coach K. The rest coach(ed) at big state schools.
I am not saying it cannot be done, but to "really believe" that we will go to 2 final fours in the next 15 years with a coach that has never coached at a power conference and has been to exactly 2 NCAA tournaments in the last 20 years, is setting yourself up for disappointment. Its like putting it all on the #2 ball in Roulette and reasonably believing that you're going to hit. In fact, odds may be better on the Roulette table.
So, again, I love the optimism. I do think that sort of success can be had at Marquette (look at Jay Wright and Brad Stevens for examples) and that the likelihood of such success is better at Marquette than many other schools in Marquette's weight class, but..... let's be a little realistic?
Or not. All fun conjecture anyway.
Crazy me, I aspire to be one of the top 16 programs in the country. And yes I do think that a coach who has already been to a Final Four and is currently sitting 14th in KenPom can do it.
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Said IU in 2008.
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Said IU in 2008.
Yes! TC finished 14th in KenPom that season. His 2nd best effort (2002, #11...2003, #15)
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Crazy me, I aspire to be one of the top 16 programs in the country. And yes I do think that a coach who has already been to a Final Four and is currently sitting 14th in KenPom can do it.
Rick Barnes?
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Rick Barnes?
Well played with your fancy refresh button.
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College athletics, much like professional sports, usually sees institutions and organizations move in the opposite direction if a previous hire failed. If the coach was experienced and hot-tempered, they will go with youth and mild-mannered. If they went young, and the inexperience proved fatal, they will inevitably go with someone that has done it before so as to avoid a repeated collapse. In going from Buzz (who was charismatic in his own way and eccentric, with a handful of off-court issues from the team) they went to Wojo (a buttoned-up, successful assistant coach at one of the blue blood programs in the country). It is unequivocally true today that MUBB went down going from Buzz to Wojo, and the school will question what it needs to do differently in the interview process to avoid a repeat.
If there is a change in the next few weeks, the next head coach will have head coaching experience - I am very confident in that prediction. Now, at what level can be anyone's guess, but the school and athletic department will not want to take another gamble on an uncertainty; the program will need experience, success and stability.
Boom. Agree completely.
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Played and coached for well regarded coach Mike Montgomery at Cal. Coached under Leonard Hamilton at FSU. (elite 8, Sweet 16's etc...)He won more games his first year at Cleveland State than they had in many years. Has worked at Marquette before (Crean). He can coach, recruit, was All Academic at one of the country's best Universities. Checks a lot of boxes actually. He's worked in California, Florida, Midwest, etc...is from Chicago. He's 41.
Color me intrigued. Thanks
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Had Quentin Richard come to MU with Cordell, Gates would have come too.
For some reason Deane like David Digga more unless the Q package was activated.
I got to know Dennis a bit when he was on TC’s staff, he really thought he, Q & Cordell were going to MU. They were all tight with Wardle and often come up here to hoop.
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Crazy me, I aspire to be one of the top 16 programs in the country. And yes I do think that a coach who has already been to a Final Four and is currently sitting 14th in KenPom can do it.
Porter Moser is in his 50s, has been a head coach for 16 seasons prior to this year...and has been to 1 NCAA tourney....ONE. They weren’t in the tourney last year, pandemic or not. And you champion their computer rankings in a weird year without a true OOC schedule. They are 0-1 Quad 1, and 3-2 in Quad 2.
It’s a strange year for computer rankings. Loyola hasn’t beaten a single team in the Top 100. Look at Colgate in the top 20. Wright State and UCSB in the top 50 with a combined 1 Quad and Quad 2 wins. With no OOC, if you beat down the conference cupcakes, your NET/KenPom ranking is high. Acting like this is a monster Loyola team cause their top 15 computer ranking when they lost to an ok Richmond team and got spanked by Wisconsin is misguided.
Acting like Moser is the guy to join that absurdly good list of multiple FF coaches when his resume is a fluke FF run in his ONLY career NCAA tourney and a heavily asterisked computer ranking in 2021 is a HEAVY reach. He could be a decent choice, but the adoration and praise needs to chill a bit.
Gates would be awesome if we had another year or two of time at CSU to go off of, but he’s very intriguing.
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Porter Moser is in his 50s, has been a head coach for 16 seasons prior to this year...and has been to 1 NCAA tourney....ONE. They weren’t in the tourney last year, pandemic or not. And you champion their computer rankings in a weird year without a true OOC schedule. They are 0-1 Quad 1, and 3-2 in Quad 2.
It’s a strange year for computer rankings. Loyola hasn’t beaten a single team in the Top 100. Look at Colgate in the top 20. Wright State and UCSB in the top 50 with a combined 1 Quad and Quad 2 wins. With no OOC, if you beat down the conference cupcakes, your NET/KenPom ranking is high. Acting like this is a monster Loyola team cause their top 15 computer ranking when they lost to an ok Richmond team and got spanked by Wisconsin is misguided.
Acting like Moser is the guy to join that absurdly good list of multiple FF coaches when his resume is a fluke FF run in his ONLY career NCAA tourney and a heavily asterisked computer ranking in 2021 is a HEAVY reach. He could be a decent choice, but the adoration and praise needs to chill a bit.
Gates would be awesome if we had another year or two of time at CSU to go off of, but he’s very intriguing.
I'm betting on the guy who had his career turned around by Rick Majerus. I fully admit, Ricks influence is coloring my vision. What I also like about his is how competitive he has been in his conference the past 4 years. I think he's the type of coach who with MU upgrades could do really well.
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Interesting tidbit on Gates that I like as I look into him more; he was a grad assistant under Hamilton in 2005 (third year at the helm) then after doing 2 year stints at Cal, Northern Illinois, and Nevada, went back to Florida State as Hamilton was ascending the program. I love Hamilton's recent teams: lengthy, tough, and unselfish. Very Buzz-like in fact. The fact that Gates had a front row seat to two different phases of a head coach's program development on top of getting some solid experiences in different conferences, geographies, and head coaching philosophies make him a great candidate. He's moved to a top tier option in my mind, would be very happy to have him leading the program.
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I'm betting on the guy who had his career turned around by Rick Majerus. I fully admit, Ricks influence is coloring my vision. What I also like about his is how competitive he has been in his conference the past 4 years. I think he's the type of coach who with MU upgrades could do really well.
FWIW, the Rick Majerus coaching tree isn’t exactly robust. Not like spending time under Rick was the Midas touch for future coaching success, He’s no doubt a better coach after his time at SLU with Rick than he was at ISU. But he’s been not much more than “pretty good” at Loyola, outside of one year.
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Well played with your fancy refresh button.
lol I had to, it fit perfectly!
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Gates went to an absolute POS program at Cleveland State and has done a nice job so far. Like Wags said, I wish he had a little more head coaching experience there or somewhere else, but maybe this is our chance to get in on the ground floor of a relative unknown, like Texas Tech did with Beard ... and Marquette did with Buzz.
I remain skeptical of Moser. One NCAA tournament appearance in, like, 100 years at that level? One?
Yes, it was a hell of an appearance ... but if we hire him and then we're still looking for an NCAAT win in 2027, Scoopers will be saying: "Looking back, it was a red flag that Moser coached at mid-majors forever and only had 1 NCAA tourney appearance."
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Gates went to an absolute POS program at Cleveland State and has done a nice job so far. Like Wags said, I wish he had a little more head coaching experience there or somewhere else, but maybe this is our chance to get in on the ground floor of a relative unknown, like Texas Tech did with Beard ... and Marquette did with Buzz.
I remain skeptical of Moser. One NCAA tournament appearance in, like, 100 years at that level? One?
Yes, it was a hell of an appearance ... but if we hire him and then we're still looking for an NCAAT win in 2027, Scoopers will be saying: "Looking back, it was a red flag that Moser coached at mid-majors forever and only had 1 NCAA tourney appearance."
I totally hear & understand skepticism of Moser. But that 1 appearance is about to be 2, at an equally-or-moreso POS program. Watch his teams, they look a lot like Villanova and he's doing it with significantly less talent. It has definitely clicked for him. Luckily, ESPN2 picked up their game against Drake tomorrow (11 a.m. CST / noon ET). Nice opportunity for our fan base to get a good look at the T-bone by sticking our heads up the butcher's ass, so to speak.
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I totally hear & understand skepticism of Moser. But that 1 appearance is about to be 2, at an equally-or-moreso POS program. Watch his teams, they look a lot like Villanova and he's doing it with significantly less talent. It has definitely clicked for him. Luckily, ESPN2 picked up their game against Drake tomorrow (11 a.m. CST / noon ET). Nice opportunity for our fan base to get a good look at the T-bone by sticking our heads up the butcher's ass, so to speak.
hmm, I’d probably rather go up the cows ass, but I hear ya.
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I totally hear & understand skepticism of Moser. But that 1 appearance is about to be 2, at an equally-or-moreso POS program. Watch his teams, they look a lot like Villanova and he's doing it with significantly less talent. It has definitely clicked for him. Luckily, ESPN2 picked up their game against Drake tomorrow (11 a.m. CST / noon ET). Nice opportunity for our fan base to get a good look at the T-bone by sticking our heads up the butcher's ass, so to speak.
Thanks for that heads-up EFR. I am absolutely gonna watch that game.
I have lots of friends who went to Loyola (or whose kids did) and they all love Moser. Since the FF run, I've probably seen 10 minutes of Loyola hoops. So I will enjoy watching tomorrow's matchup between Moser and DeVries.
Winner gets to follow Wojo!
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Thanks for that heads-up EFR. I am absolutely gonna watch that game.
I have lots of friends who went to Loyola (or whose kids did) and they all love Moser. Since the FF run, I've probably seen 10 minutes of Loyola hoops. So I will enjoy watching tomorrow's matchup between Moser and DeVries.
Winner gets to follow Wojo!
It's a Saturday / Sunday doubleheader so the winner will be decided based on soccer style aggregate.
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It's a Saturday / Sunday doubleheader so the winner will be decided based on soccer style aggregate.
Nothing will be done based on anything related to soccer.
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Yeah, just one year of tourney success and with another appearance on tap. No matter how you look at it, he's way ahead of Wojo. Moser was trying to schedule Marquette and some other major conference teams a few years ago. Marquette wisely turned him down. Imagine Marquette playing Loyola this year. I get that he's not proven top notch but may be the best deal for us.
I'll watch the game but am not interested in the trip up the ass, thank you very much. Reminds me of a comment that a patient undergoing a colonoscopy allegedly said to the doc. "Will you please write a note to my wife and tell her that my head is not up there?"
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Nothing will be done based on anything related to soccer.
Thanks for the clarification.
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It's a Saturday / Sunday doubleheader so the winner will be decided based on soccer style aggregate.
But with both games at the same location will there be a road points advantage?Nice opportunity for our fan base to get a good look at the T-bone by sticking our heads up the butcher's ass, so to speak.
You magnificent bastard! I salute you.
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Yeah, just one year of tourney success and with another appearance on tap. No matter how you look at it, he's way ahead of Wojo. Moser was trying to schedule Marquette and some other major conference teams a few years ago. Marquette wisely turned him down. Imagine Marquette playing Loyola this year. I get that he's not proven top notch but may be the best deal for us.
Don't know if he's "way ahead of Wojo" or not. You think he is, but he's never proven it at any level close to the BEast. Opinions aren't facts.
I can imagine Marquette beating Loyola, just as we beat Wisconsin and Creighton. Or I can imagine us losing to Loyola, just as we've lost to plenty of teams at least as good as them (and at least one worse than them).
It's a Saturday / Sunday doubleheader
I'll watch tomorrow's game. The Sunday rematch is the same time as when MU will be beating Seton Hall.
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Don't know if he's "way ahead of Wojo" or not. You think he is, but he's never proven it at any level close to the BEast. Opinions aren't facts.
I can imagine Marquette beating Loyola, just as we beat Wisconsin and Creighton. Or I can imagine us losing to Loyola, just as we've lost to plenty of teams at least as good as them (and at least one worse than them).
I'll watch tomorrow's game. The Sunday rematch is the same time as when MU will be beating Seton Hall.
I should have been more specific. In terms of tourney success, he's way ahead of Wojo over the past few years. Final Four and Wojo do not belong in the same sentence. And yes, we may have won vs. Loyola but I think they would have been the favorite.
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Given solid MVC resources, he's built a contending MVC team. I believe that given great Big East resources, he could build a contending Big Eat team. He'll be 54 this summer, the same age Beilein was when took over Michigan. I think this guy can be our Beilein. And I'm not hiring him because I bet he'll stay, I'm hiring him because I think we'll want him to stay.
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Given solid MVC resources, he's built a contending MVC team. I believe that given great Big East resources, he could build a contending Big Eat team. He'll be 54 this summer, the same age Beilein was when took over Michigan. I think this guy can be our Beilein. And I'm not hiring him because I bet he'll stay, I'm hiring him because I think we'll want him to stay.
Agree. He's been at Loyola for 10 years and I suspect he flirted with the St. John's opening just to get a bump in pay. Unless he's a Mark Few/Jay Wright type of guy (of course, where would those 2 go that's a better place?) who simply wants to stay where he is, a move to Milwaukee may be just the right promotion and a long time commitment. Gates has been in too many places for me to want him at Marquette. I get his success but the last thing we need is a short timer and that is what I fear he would be. I like the idea of a coach who is a little older and hopefully gets comfortable in his new home.
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Agree. He's been at Loyola for 10 years and I suspect he flirted with the St. John's opening just to get a bump in pay. Unless he's a Mark Few/Jay Wright type of guy (of course, where would those 2 go that's a better place?) who simply wants to stay where he is, a move to Milwaukee may be just the right promotion and a long time commitment. Gates has been in too many places for me to want him at Marquette. I get his success but the last thing we need is a short timer and that is what I fear he would be. I like the idea of a coach who is a little older and hopefully gets comfortable in his new home.
sure, as an assistant.
Also, I'm fine with a guy using us as a stepping stone to a high level power conference program. That means he's been successful and left us in a better positon than he found us.
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I can't say I know a lot about Craig Smith but his resume is interesting. Has anyone watched his USU teams play?
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I can't say I know a lot about Craig Smith but his resume is interesting. Has anyone watched his USU teams play?
I’m starting to get on the bandwagon. He has good assistant experience. Is almost always in the top half of his conference as a head coach. I watched an interview and mic’d up session and seems like a fun personality.
He’s from Minnesota, so could be looking to get back to the Midwest and stay awhile.
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I’m starting to get on the bandwagon. He has good assistant experience. Is almost always in the top half of his conference as a head coach. I watched an interview and mic’d up session and seems like a fun personality.
He’s from Minnesota, so could be looking to get back to the Midwest and stay awhile.
Think about how far Beard and Holtmann have come is a relatively short period of time. I am no expert on these things but do believe there are a number of intriguing options.
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hmm, I’d probably rather go up the cows ass, but I hear ya.
Any y'all interested in goin' up Kate Upton's ass, hey?
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The fact that we can’t even get Tommy Boy quotes right shows how far this program has dropped.
I’ll wait for the next hire patiently and hope they exceed the current regime’s results...cause MUBB blows at the moment.
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The fact that we can’t even get Tommy Boy quotes right shows how far this program has dropped.
Yeah, he really butchered that quote
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The fact that we can’t even get Tommy Boy quotes right shows how far this program has dropped.
I’ll wait for the next hire patiently and hope they exceed the current regime’s results...cause MUBB blows at the moment.
Pretty sure I nailed it. No, wait, it's gotta be your bull...
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I can't say I know a lot about Craig Smith but his resume is interesting. Has anyone watched his USU teams play?
Smith is a system coach. Most of his teams have played from in the fastish to mid-tempo range. On offense he puts a premium on ball movement and crashing the offensive glass. Almost every shot they take is assisted. Turnovers are his team's achilles' heel (though not as bad as Wojo).
Defense is Smith's calling card. At both Utah State and South Dakota his teams got better defensively every season he was there. Every year at Utah State his teams have ranked in the top 45 for eFG% allowed. They are also elite on the defensive glass (top 11 every year at Utah State). His defensive system is to give up threes in order to guard the paint (but they do it better than MU does). Elite 2P defense, meh 3P defense. Defensive weakness is also TOs, they don't force many of them. Honestly, Smith runs Wojo's defense except it actually works.
A lot to like about Smith. He hit the ground running at Utah State when no one expected them to be good right away. His teams seems to consistently improve as the season goes on. Concern I would have for him is his recruiting. He's shown no evidence of recruiting networks in the midwest since heading out west. Almost all of his kids have come from west of the Rockies or overseas. If he came back to the midwest he'd need to establish recruiting networks here.
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Am I wrong?
I don't know. And neither do you.
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Smith is a system coach. Most of his teams have played from in the fastish to mid-tempo range. On offense he puts a premium on ball movement and crashing the offensive glass. Almost every shot they take is assisted. Turnovers are his team's achilles' heel (though not as bad as Wojo).
Defense is Smith's calling card. At both Utah State and South Dakota his teams got better defensively every season he was there. Every year at Utah State his teams have ranked in the top 45 for eFG% allowed. They are also elite on the defensive glass (top 11 every year at Utah State). His defensive system is to give up threes in order to guard the paint (but they do it better than MU does). Elite 2P defense, meh 3P defense. Defensive weakness is also TOs, they don't force many of them. Honestly, Smith runs Wojo's defense except it actually works.
A lot to like about Smith. He hit the ground running at Utah State when no one expected them to be good right away. His teams seems to consistently improve as the season goes on. Concern I would have for him is his recruiting. He's shown no evidence of recruiting networks in the midwest since heading out west. Almost all of his kids have come from west of the Rockies or overseas. If he came back to the midwest he'd need to establish recruiting networks here.
Is there a h-c that would have Midwest recruiting networks besides Moser? Craig is from Minny. I have to say I never imagined in a million yrs we would be in this position.
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Otz is the guy if you want instate and midwest recruiting ties. He'd kill it in state if he got the marquette job. He's the guy who got all of the wisconsin kids to iowa st during the hoiberg years, and helped with other midwest kids too like monte morris.
Devries has a roster full of midwest kids too, especially the chicago area.
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Following along on all the candidates mentioned here. Tough decision but I wonder if the BOT looks strictly for a diverse candidate. Not saying I agree or disagree. Just feel that could be a focus. Just give me a coach that can have at least a couple strengths on the court. Like hey we are a great defensive team or hey we attack the rim or hey we move the ball great and have great shot selection. We have zero strengths and I’m tired of watching this. So frustrating.
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Following along on all the candidates mentioned here. Tough decision but I wonder if the BOT looks strictly for a diverse candidate. Not saying I agree or disagree. Just feel that could be a focus. Just give me a coach that can have at least a couple strengths on the court. Like hey we are a great defensive team or hey we attack the rim or hey we move the ball great and have great shot selection. We have zero strengths and I’m tired of watching this. So frustrating.
Knowing the current direction that the university is going with student recruitment, I can imagine there will be a strong push to hire a Black head coach.
Frankly, I don't think I've heard a Black coach named anywhere in this thread, outside of Stan. Other than our own assistants and former assistants, what other Black candidates are there?
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Knowing the current direction that the university is going with student recruitment, I can imagine there will be a strong push to hire a Black head coach.
Frankly, I don't think I've heard a Black coach named anywhere in this thread, outside of Stan. Other than our own assistants and former assistants, what other Black candidates are there?
Dennis Gates at Cleveland State is black.
I am sure the BOT and administration would like that too, but I also think they know they would have to get this hire right. That will be the primary factor.
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I'm glad you had your fun and now for reality. Marquette has laid of 350 employees and are expecting more.
Here are some more numbers:
Wojo is owed approximately $6 million (maybe more because he deferred some this season due to Covid but we'll keep it at $6 million). Coaches are owed probably $1 million for next season. MU now owes $7 million in dead money.
Moser makes $1.15 million. Figure for him to move it has to be at least $1.6 million. Coaching staff will cost $1 million. That's $2.6 million. Now MU is up to $9.6 million for a basketball coach next season. Can't find his buyout but usually 50 - 75 percent what's owed. Moser has 4 years left so at a minimum it's $2 million. A guy that makes $1 million and will be less than $2 million at MU will not pay his own buyout. That $2 million brings the total to $11.6 million MU needs to pay out for a Moser next season, almost $9 million more that if we keep Wojo.
Add in Moser will probably be a hot property so we'll have competition. Maybe DePaul with get rid of Leitao. He makes $1.3 million. So the new administration ups what they pay their coach to match MU. Less pressure and no move. And one more thing. The BC AD was the guy that hired Moser at Loyola. They pay Christian $1.3 million so they can also drive up his price. So $1.6 million might be too low.
In all Moser will cost us at least $11 million next season.
Smith makes about $750,000 with a bunch of bonus opportunities. He has 2 years left with a buyout of 75 percent of his salary. Works out to about $1.1 million. Figure a $1.5 million salary and $1 million for coaches for a total of $3.6 million for Smith. That's $7 million more than they would pay Wojo and it comes to $10 million for Smith.
Here's another little fun fact. MU male athletics had $27 million in revenue in 2020. No ticket revenue in 20-21 and decrease of NCAA Tournament money with the expiration of credits from 6 years ago and no share from last year. Safe assumption games generate $300K per game/15 games is $4.5 million in lost revenue. (My estimate is based on $22 for 11,000 tickets per game. I didn't include in game advertising and sponsorships). So it is more.
To get rid of Wojo the athletic department will need to find a minimum of $7 million when it has a $27 million total budget for men's sports and lost about $4 million just in ticket revenue. And forget the PR nightmare of of raising $7 million while hundreds are being let go and others forced to take a pay freeze.
Unless a lot of you bought GameStop at $3 and sold at $300, if we do get rid of Wojo the next coach is an assistant coach or an unemployed coach.
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Dad's, I agree with your premise that it would be difficult to replace Wojo this year. I also think Wojo wasn't on the hot seat before the season began so it is doubtful that Lovell, Scholl and Co. have lost THAT much faith in him that they want to let him go. So IMO I think you are correct that Wojo is here next year.
But here's the problem. They are going to have to spend this money soon. This isn't working and they have to see that. Furthermore they almost have to extend him. I mean, maybe not but then you may as well fire him right?
And I think MU needs to realize that next year could get real ugly PR wise. Their prospects for success don't look great. They will likely bleed a bunch of season ticket holder next year, and likely more the year after. A successful basketball program is a key to MU getting out of the financial situation they are in. But having faith that Wojo is that guy seems quite foolish.
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I totally hear & understand skepticism of Moser. But that 1 appearance is about to be 2, at an equally-or-moreso POS program. Watch his teams, they look a lot like Villanova and he's doing it with significantly less talent. It has definitely clicked for him. Luckily, ESPN2 picked up their game against Drake tomorrow (11 a.m. CST / noon ET). Nice opportunity for our fan base to get a good look at the T-bone by sticking our heads up the butcher's ass, so to speak.
The Missouri Valley Conference is playing back to back league games this season. This means Loyola Chicago and Drake play today at Drake, and they play tomorrow, Sunday. Both games are at Drake. (At minimum Sunday's game is likely on ESPN+.)
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Dad's, I agree with your premise that it would be difficult to replace Wojo this year. I also think Wojo wasn't on the hot seat before the season began so it is doubtful that Lovell, Scholl and Co. have lost THAT much faith in him that they want to let him go. So IMO I think you are correct that Wojo is here next year.
But here's the problem. They are going to have to spend this money soon. This isn't working and they have to see that. Furthermore they almost have to extend him. I mean, maybe not but then you may as well fire him right?
And I think MU needs to realize that next year could get real ugly PR wise. Their prospects for success don't look great. They will likely bleed a bunch of season ticket holder next year, and likely more the year after. A successful basketball program is a key to MU getting out of the financial situation they are in. But having faith that Wojo is that guy seems quite foolish.
Somehow, I’d imagine if the school went collectively to Wade, Butler, Rivers, Matthews and Crowder, (and other alumni) they’d be able to give at least HALF the amount of upfront buyout money ($3 million). Allow the group to have a voice (not THE voice) in the search. They want MUBB to be successful and continue to show support for their alma mater.
Honestly, the financial concerns are overblown. If the school decides to make a change, it will find a way to do so. We will not keep Wojo strictly for financial reasons.
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Pops, I appreciate the cold, statistical facts. However, MU cannot afford paralysis by analysis. The potential loss of revenue is even far greater if he remains. He gone, hey?
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Pops, I appreciate the cold, statistical facts. However, MU cannot afford paralysis by analysis. The potential loss of revenue is even far greater if he remains. He gone, hey?
Totally with you. We don’t know the real financial picture at Marquette. I’m hopeful they take care of this and move on but also not sure if the administration has what it takes. More to come I guess.
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Totally with you. We don’t know the real financial picture at Marquette. I’m hopeful they take care of this and move on but also not sure if the administration has what it takes. More to come I guess.
I don't know what you mean by "the real financial picture." They have lost hundreds of enrolled students. They are firing and furloughing employees. They haven't matched 403(b) contributions all year.
Safe to say it's pretty bad.
That being said, you CAN make a change if you want. It's hardly impossible to do so. Difficult? Most definitely. But it's going to be difficult WITH him next year too.
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Porter Moser is in his 50s, has been a head coach for 16 seasons prior to this year...and has been to 1 NCAA tourney....ONE. They weren’t in the tourney last year, pandemic or not. And you champion their computer rankings in a weird year without a true OOC schedule. They are 0-1 Quad 1, and 3-2 in Quad 2.
It’s a strange year for computer rankings. Loyola hasn’t beaten a single team in the Top 100. Look at Colgate in the top 20. Wright State and UCSB in the top 50 with a combined 1 Quad and Quad 2 wins. With no OOC, if you beat down the conference cupcakes, your NET/KenPom ranking is high. Acting like this is a monster Loyola team cause their top 15 computer ranking when they lost to an ok Richmond team and got spanked by Wisconsin is misguided.
Acting like Moser is the guy to join that absurdly good list of multiple FF coaches when his resume is a fluke FF run in his ONLY career NCAA tourney and a heavily asterisked computer ranking in 2021 is a HEAVY reach. He could be a decent choice, but the adoration and praise needs to chill a bit.
Gates would be awesome if we had another year or two of time at CSU to go off of, but he’s very intriguing.
I don't care who Marquette hires as long as that staff is as successful as possible. I do like Dennis Gates, hence why I posted about him before.
Fair is fair. I saw lots and lots of other posters here mention Brian Wardle. (They have been pretty quiet lately) I wasn't why they would mention him when Porter Moser has been better in the same league over a similar time. Mentioning one without the other was strange.
People can like or not like Moser. People can include him on a list of candidates or not. I don't care BUt I will give him fair representation of his record. To say all he has to his resume is one Final Four run isn't a fair representative of his time there
This will likely be the fourth straight season that Loyola Chicago will either be the Missouri Valley Regular Season Champion or runner up.
For perspective, Loyola Chicago has played in a league 40 years. Only one other coach at Loyola has won their league.
Besides Moser, Loyola Chicago has made rhe NCAA's one other time (1985) since the 1960's.
He was the top assistant and lead recruiter for Majerus. Rick's coaching tree? How is Marquette's coaching tree? We could say this about some of the country's very best coaches. It's more common to not have one than to have one. Not that it matters, but several have done just fine. Donny Daniels did pretty well at UCLA and Gonzaga. Alex Jensen was the NBA G league coach of the year after SLU. Chris Harriman has done well, and so on. After working with Majerus, Jim Whitesell worked with Nate Oats for four seasons at Buffalo before taking over as HC. Several coaches have done quite well after working with Majerus.
So, fair is fair.
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Knowing the current direction that the university is going with student recruitment, I can imagine there will be a strong push to hire a Black head coach.
Frankly, I don't think I've heard a Black coach named anywhere in this thread, outside of Stan. Other than our own assistants and former assistants, what other Black candidates are there?
Black coaches don't get the opportunities often enough. And when they do, they are often held to a different standard, and, are often recycled less often too. That needs to improve.
Good for Stan for getting an opportunity At LMU. Dennis Gates is a very strong candidate for the head coaching position at Marquette in my opinion.
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Black coaches don't get the opportunities often enough. And when they do, they are often held to a different standard, and, are often recycled less often too. That needs to improve.
Good for Stan for getting an opportunity At LMU. Dennis Gates is a very strong candidate for the head coaching position at Marquette in my opinion.
Gates is winless outside Horizon League this year, including a 55 point drubbing to a MAC school. He has a very long way to go in demonstrating he can coach. We can do far better than this in very strong candidates.
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Black coaches don't get the opportunities often enough. And when they do, they are often held to a different standard, and, are often recycled less often too. That needs to improve.
Good for Stan for getting an opportunity At LMU. Dennis Gates is a very strong candidate for the head coaching position at Marquette in my opinion.
Not arguing with you, but can you provide examples?
JTIII had back-to-back losing seasons at Georgetown, a top-25 program, and had one tournament appearance in his last four years. Dave Leitao has been at DePaul for six years, again, and has never finished higher than 8th in conference. Mike Anderson was at Arkansas for eight seasons and immediately gets hired at St. John’s. Patrick Ewing is overseeing one of the worst stretches for Georgetown basketball in decades, and is in no danger of being fired. Cuonzo Martin has had three power conference jobs in a decade. Jerry Stackhouse, Juwan Howard, Avery Johnson and Ewing, were hired all with zero college coaching experience, but he too found another job after Miami and the NBA. Jeff Capel was rehired at Pitt after being at Oklahoma and VCU. Leonard Hamilton didn’t make an NCAAT for his first five years at FSU.
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I don't know what you mean by "the real financial picture." They have lost hundreds of enrolled students. They are firing and furloughing employees. They haven't matched 403(b) contributions all year.
Safe to say it's pretty bad.
That being said, you CAN make a change if you want. It's hardly impossible to do so. Difficult? Most definitely. But it's going to be difficult WITH him next year too.
Since the school is already firing and furloughing employees, put Wojo-Dukiet on that list. Lamest excuse is "we cant afford to fire him" He has gots to go. He started the dumpster fire.
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Not arguing with you, but can you provide examples?
JTIII had back-to-back losing seasons at Georgetown, a top-25 program, and had one tournament appearance in his last four years. Dave Leitao has been at DePaul for six years, again, and has never finished higher than 8th in conference. Mike Anderson was at Arkansas for eight seasons and immediately gets hired at St. John’s. Patrick Ewing is overseeing one of the worst stretches for Georgetown basketball in decades, and is in no danger of being fired. Cuonzo Martin has had three power conference jobs in a decade. Jerry Stackhouse, Juwan Howard, Avery Johnson and Ewing, were hired all with zero college coaching experience, but he too found another job after Miami and the NBA. Jeff Capel was rehired at Pitt after being at Oklahoma and VCU. Leonard Hamilton didn’t make an NCAAT for his first five years at FSU.
Add Craig Robinson to this list. One good season of two leading an Ivy League program, and he gets a P5 gig! And then is kept for 6 seasons and has a losing conference record every year.
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Since the school is already firing and furloughing employees, put Wojo-Dukiet on that list. Lamest excuse is "we cant afford to fire him" He has gots to go. He started the dumpster fire.
It's his fault that enrollment dropped?
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Gates is winless outside Horizon League this year, including a 55 point drubbing to a MAC school. He has a very long way to go in demonstrating he can coach. We can do far better than this in very strong candidates.
Is this your way of saying Cleveland St. is in first place? Or that they won more league games in Gates' first year than the previous five years? Or that they have only played three non-conference games this year including a close loss at Ohio St.?
He's had better head coaching success prior to Marquette than Tom Crean and Buzz Williams.
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Is this your way of saying Cleveland St. is in first place? Or that they won more league games in Gates' first year than the previous five years? Or that they have only played three non-conference games this year including a close loss at Ohio St.?
He's had better head coaching success prior to Marquette than Tom Crean and Buzz Williams.
To consider him a strong candidate at this stage is asinine. Maybe he will be good, and I didn’t say he won’t be. But let’s temper the enthusiasm of being top of the Horizon League not even completed his second season as head coach. I would say a 55 pt loss to a run of the mill MAC program maybe is a slight red flag they’re not really as good as their confidence record suggests.
In case you’re new to following sports, the road is littered with guys who looked really good for one season, and the story is yet to even be written how this season will finish.
Wait and see on him. If this is general profile of our strong candidates, whoa. This program has sunk much lower than I thought.
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Gates is winless outside Horizon League this year, including a 55 point drubbing to a MAC school. He has a very long way to go in demonstrating he can coach. We can do far better than this in very strong candidates.
While many here seem to downplay the financial side, I doubt (if we make a move) that we are going to go after proven commodities. Anyone who really demonstrates he can coach is unfortunately going to come at a high price tag. I agree about Gates being unproven, but we may have to roll the dice.
On that note, if we really wanted to gamble and go the unproven assistant route...does anyone have any thoughts on Roger Powell, Jr at Gonzaga? He played on an NCAA Runner-up team at Illinois. From Joliet, so knows the Midwest and Chicago. Could he help land an occasional overseas talent? Has worked at Valpo, Vanderbilt, and Gonzaga, so he knows he landscape of private, religious schools.
I haven%u2019t t followed this thread closely, so if he's been discussed, my bad.
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While many here seem to downplay the financial side, I doubt (if we make a move) that we are going to go after proven commodities. Anyone who really demonstrates he can coach is unfortunately going to come at a high price tag. I agree about Gates being unproven, but we may have to roll the dice.
On that note, if we really wanted to gamble and go the unproven assistant route...does anyone have any thoughts on Roger Powell, Jr at Gonzaga? He played on an NCAA Runner-up team at Illinois. From Joliet, so knows the Midwest and Chicago. Could he help land an occasional overseas talent? Has worked at Valpo, Vanderbilt, and Gonzaga, so he knows he landscape of private, religious schools.
I haven%u2019t t followed this thread closely, so if he's been discussed, my bad.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. He’s leaving (not fired) for two reasons.
1 - PR nightmare if he stays. He will get booed every home game.
2 - He’s hurting his future employability and next seasons prospects don’t look great. He’s going to go somewhere else while the “gettins good”
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Not arguing with you, but can you provide examples?
JTIII had back-to-back losing seasons at Georgetown, a top-25 program, and had one tournament appearance in his last four years. Dave Leitao has been at DePaul for six years, again, and has never finished higher than 8th in conference. Mike Anderson was at Arkansas for eight seasons and immediately gets hired at St. John’s. Patrick Ewing is overseeing one of the worst stretches for Georgetown basketball in decades, and is in no danger of being fired. Cuonzo Martin has had three power conference jobs in a decade. Jerry Stackhouse, Juwan Howard, Avery Johnson and Ewing, were hired all with zero college coaching experience, but he too found another job after Miami and the NBA. Jeff Capel was rehired at Pitt after being at Oklahoma and VCU. Leonard Hamilton didn’t make an NCAAT for his first five years at FSU.
I can't tell if this is parody or not?
Are we serious? Now do White Coaches.
Let's take a look.
JT3 hasn't been a Head Coach in four years. He won 278 games at Georgetown. This includes 9 NCAA Tourney games there, some of it in the tougher Big East. He won the league title 3 times and he finished in the top four in the league six times. This doesn't include winning the Ivy League 3 out of his 4 seasons there. I'd say that's pretty good. But he hasn't had his door knocked down since leaving Georgetown.
Two seasons before his coaching tenure ended at Georgetown, he went 12-6 in the league. Some people here think that is either good enough for Wojo to either stay at Marquette or go to BC or Penn St.etc...
Leonard Hamilton? Florida St. hadn't had a winning league record in the previous nine seasons prior to his arrival. He of course has done it 9 times, has won the ACC Regular Season Title, and he's won 9 NCAA games there and last year had one of the country's best teams.
It took Mike Krzyzewski and Jay Wright four years to make the NCAA's at Duke and Villanova. It's taken some others longer. Kevin Willard anyone?
You've named less than a dozen Black Head Coaches over a many year period, many of whom actually had success that warranted an additional opportunity. In D-1 Ball (There are over 350 Head Coaches per season)
It's silly season if you think all things are equal or close to it from a racial standpoint.
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To consider him a strong candidate at this stage is asinine. Maybe he will be good, and I didn’t say he won’t be. But let’s temper the enthusiasm of being top of the Horizon League not even completed his second season as head coach. I would say a 55 pt loss to a run of the mill MAC program maybe is a slight red flag they’re not really as good as their confidence record suggests.
In case you’re new to following sports, the road is littered with guys who looked really good for one season, and the story is yet to even be written how this season will finish.
Wait and see on him. If this is general profile of our strong candidates, whoa. This program has sunk much lower than I thought.
You somehow believe Marquette is on a higher plane than they are in the college basketball landscape. Marquette is a good job in college basketball. But let's get some perspective. There are many other good jobs in college basketball too.
In the past 40 years, Marquette has had less success than Villanova, Xavier, Georgetown, etc...in its own league, let alone some other leagues and teams.
As for Gates, his resume is certainly as good as several other realistic names I've seen mentioned that would both be qualified, and, take the job.
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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. He’s leaving (not fired) for two reasons.
1 - PR nightmare if he stays. He will get booed every home game.
2 - He’s hurting his future employability and next seasons prospects don’t look great. He’s going to go somewhere else while the “gettins good”
That’s kind of my hope. It’s probably easy enough to write this off as a Covid year for a new school. His resume is way better than Jim Christian’s before being hired by BC. I could see that being a good fit for him to get back into the ACC.
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While many here seem to downplay the financial side, I doubt (if we make a move) that we are going to go after proven commodities. Anyone who really demonstrates he can coach is unfortunately going to come at a high price tag. I agree about Gates being unproven, but we may have to roll the dice.
On that note, if we really wanted to gamble and go the unproven assistant route...does anyone have any thoughts on Roger Powell, Jr at Gonzaga? He played on an NCAA Runner-up team at Illinois. From Joliet, so knows the Midwest and Chicago. Could he help land an occasional overseas talent? Has worked at Valpo, Vanderbilt, and Gonzaga, so he knows he landscape of private, religious schools.
I haven%u2019t t followed this thread closely, so if he's been discussed, my bad.
Roger has had some successful stops as an assistant. He is a very good recruiter.
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Nolan Richardson is still alive. I say we beat St Johns at their own game.
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You somehow believe Marquette is on a higher plane than they are in the college basketball landscape. Marquette is a good job in college basketball. But let's get some perspective. There are many other good jobs in college basketball too.
In the past 40 years, Marquette has had less success than Villanova, Xavier, Georgetown, etc...in its own league, let alone some other leagues and teams.
As for Gates, his resume is certainly as good as several other realistic names I've seen mentioned that would both be qualified, and, take the job.
Except for not having P5 conference affiliation, MU wants for nothing in the college basketball world. In a plethora of areas on and off the court, MU is and should be a very appealing job for anyone. Wojo knew it 7 years ago from the view of a blue blood program.
MU is more than just a “good” job, and our coaching search should reflect that. Aim high, we have a ton of selling points.
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Except for not having P5 conference affiliation, MU wants for nothing in the college basketball world. In a plethora of areas on and off the court, MU is and should be a very appealing job for anyone. Wojo knew it 7 years ago from the view of a blue blood program.
MU is more than just a “good” job, and our coaching search should reflect that. Aim high, we have a ton of selling points.
No one said Marquette isn't a good job. It is. But there are many other good jobs too.
Marquette hired an assistant coach with no Head Coaching experience. And, it was an assistant that coached at one place in that assistant coaching experience.
Marquette's previous Head Coaching hire, Buzz Williams, whom many consider one of the more successful Head Coaches at Marquette in a long time, had one year of Head Coaching experience where he was three games under .500 in that one year.
Different coaches present different categories of strength.
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That’s kind of my hope. It’s probably easy enough to write this off as a Covid year for a new school. His resume is way better than Jim Christian’s before being hired by BC. I could see that being a good fit for him to get back into the ACC.
I agree. He’s got just enough of a fool’s gold resume too attract a school.
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Add Craig Robinson to this list. One good season of two leading an Ivy League program, and he gets a P5 gig! And then is kept for 6 seasons and has a losing conference record every year.
Robinson took the job after Ron Hunter (also AA) turned it down. OSU was basically down to giving the job to whomever wanted it.
Lorenzo Romar got another job after being fired at Washington. Rod Barnes coaching again after being fired at Ole Miss. Dawkins and and Amaker scooped up immediately after being fired. Louis Orr coached 7 years after being fired from Seton Hall.
And let’s not forget Kelvin Sampson, who landed two programs in significant probation and is back coaching at Houston.
While the hardships AA coaches face in college football are legit, they are given far more opportunities in college hoops.
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I can't tell if this is parody or not?
Are we serious? Now do White Coaches.
Let's take a look.
JT3 hasn't been a Head Coach in four years. He won 278 games at Georgetown. This includes 9 NCAA Tourney games there, some of it in the tougher Big East. He won the league title 3 times and he finished in the top four in the league six times. This doesn't include winning the Ivy League 3 out of his 4 seasons there. I'd say that's pretty good. But he hasn't had his door knocked down since leaving Georgetown.
Two seasons before his coaching tenure ended at Georgetown, he went 12-6 in the league. Some people here think that is either good enough for Wojo to either stay at Marquette or go to BC or Penn St.etc...
Leonard Hamilton? Florida St. hadn't had a winning league record in the previous nine seasons prior to his arrival. He of course has done it 9 times, has won the ACC Regular Season Title, and he's won 9 NCAA games there and last year had one of the country's best teams.
It took Mike Krzyzewski and Jay Wright four years to make the NCAA's at Duke and Villanova. It's taken some others longer. Kevin Willard anyone?
You've named less than a dozen Black Head Coaches over a many year period, many of whom actually had success that warranted an additional opportunity. In D-1 Ball (There are over 350 Head Coaches per season)
It's silly season if you think all things are equal or close to it from a racial standpoint.
So, again, who is being unfairly treated? Are there specific examples of head coaches that you feel are being unfairly treated because of their skin color?
Of the 351 D1 schools, about 30% are Black. Is there a numerical figure that you feel would equate to fair? Would that number be 50/50? Again, I'm not being critical of your general statement; I am very interested in having a discussion about it to learn more. The 2018 College Sport Racial and Gender Report Card showed that 53.6 percent of the Division I men's basketball players and 43 percent of the Division I women's players were Black. Is the acceptable goal to move the percentage of Black head coaches to 50%?
I think it is fair statement that for all head coaches, whether you are White, Black, etc., if you win, you will always get another shot (even if there are allegations of cheating or wrong-doing). However, if you lose, coaches very much get written-off and do not get another opportunity. These are just my perceptions, so, again, I am happy to learn more and have a conversation about it.
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So, again, who is being unfairly treated? Are there specific examples of head coaches that you feel are being unfairly treated because of their skin color?
Of the 351 D1 schools, about 30% are Black. Is there a numerical figure that you feel would equate to fair? Would that number be 50/50? Again, I'm not being critical of your general statement; I am very interested in having a discussion about it to learn more. The 2018 College Sport Racial and Gender Report Card showed that 53.6 percent of the Division I men's basketball players and 43 percent of the Division I women's players were Black. Is the acceptable goal to move the percentage of Black head coaches to 50%?
I think it is fair statement that for all head coaches, whether you are White, Black, etc., if you win, you will always get another shot (even if there are allegations of cheating or wrong-doing). However, if you lose, coaches very much get written-off and do not get another opportunity. These are just my perceptions, so, again, I am happy to learn more and have a conversation about it.
I don't think it's fair to say Black Head Coaches get the same initial opportunities, let alone as many multiple chances.
One of the first examples shown was JT3. And as I said, he was successful, yet he didn't get the opportunities after Georgetown.
Using 2020 numbers, 80% of Major College Conference Scholarship Basketball Players are Black. The numbers are even higher if we discuss a team's best players.
There are 29% total D-1 Black Head Coaches. Now take away Historically Black Colleges and Universities, that drops to 24% Now use top 7 leagues, that drops to 23%. Now do Power 5 schools and its 14%.
There are roughly 10 Black Athletic Directors out of those 353. I know of one College Basketball Search Firm not run by a White Male. (Asian) We can also do University Presidents too.
You also mentioned Women. We won't waste people's time discussing Women hires in Men's College Basketball.
In Women's College Basketball, Women of color make up 14% of D-1 hires. (2019) Women in general make up 11% of AD hires (out of 356)
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I'm glad you had your fun and now for reality. Marquette has laid of 350 employees and are expecting more.
Here are some more numbers:
Wojo is owed approximately $6 million (maybe more because he deferred some this season due to Covid but we'll keep it at $6 million). Coaches are owed probably $1 million for next season. MU now owes $7 million in dead money.
Moser makes $1.15 million. Figure for him to move it has to be at least $1.6 million. Coaching staff will cost $1 million. That's $2.6 million. Now MU is up to $9.6 million for a basketball coach next season. Can't find his buyout but usually 50 - 75 percent what's owed. Moser has 4 years left so at a minimum it's $2 million. A guy that makes $1 million and will be less than $2 million at MU will not pay his own buyout. That $2 million brings the total to $11.6 million MU needs to pay out for a Moser next season, almost $9 million more that if we keep Wojo.
Add in Moser will probably be a hot property so we'll have competition. Maybe DePaul with get rid of Leitao. He makes $1.3 million. So the new administration ups what they pay their coach to match MU. Less pressure and no move. And one more thing. The BC AD was the guy that hired Moser at Loyola. They pay Christian $1.3 million so they can also drive up his price. So $1.6 million might be too low.
In all Moser will cost us at least $11 million next season.
Smith makes about $750,000 with a bunch of bonus opportunities. He has 2 years left with a buyout of 75 percent of his salary. Works out to about $1.1 million. Figure a $1.5 million salary and $1 million for coaches for a total of $3.6 million for Smith. That's $7 million more than they would pay Wojo and it comes to $10 million for Smith.
Here's another little fun fact. MU male athletics had $27 million in revenue in 2020. No ticket revenue in 20-21 and decrease of NCAA Tournament money with the expiration of credits from 6 years ago and no share from last year. Safe assumption games generate $300K per game/15 games is $4.5 million in lost revenue. (My estimate is based on $22 for 11,000 tickets per game. I didn't include in game advertising and sponsorships). So it is more.
To get rid of Wojo the athletic department will need to find a minimum of $7 million when it has a $27 million total budget for men's sports and lost about $4 million just in ticket revenue. And forget the PR nightmare of of raising $7 million while hundreds are being let go and others forced to take a pay freeze.
Unless a lot of you bought GameStop at $3 and sold at $300, if we do get rid of Wojo the next coach is an assistant coach or an unemployed coach.
I've been wanting a $$$-driven analysis like this, so thanks a ton for this, dc. I'm gonna bookmark it.
When you put the $$$ out there like this, and add in the pandemic and its financial impact, and the reality of it all slaps you in the face. I don't know enough about Marquette's overall situation to know whether this makes it impossible to fire Wojo; others here seem to think that it would still be possible so the fan in me hopes it happens.
But I think it should be pretty obvious that Marquette is not gonna pay $7M+ to dump Wojo and his staff ... and then also pay huge money for the "dream" coaches that others say the administration has an "obligation" to contact. We are not going to get Beilein or Matta or Rivers or Phil Jackson.
I do find myself nodding my head in agreement at the Scoopers who say that it could be even more painful financially to keep Wojo. It's a logical argument, and given that I also want to dump Wojo, it's easy for me to agree with it.
And if they decide to keep Wojo, as Sultan said, it's hard to imagine them not extending him. Which would really blow, even if it makes it easier to fire him after next season.
One thing for sure: It's going to be fascinating to follow how this all plays out over the next 2-3 months.
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I may be misunderstanding all this, but if a school wanted to hire Wojo away from us, would they likely have to pay us 50-75% of what his buyout is? Would it be completely unheard of for MU to waive that fee to make him more attractive to other schools wanting to hire him?
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I don't think it's fair to say Black Head Coaches get the same initial opportunities, let alone as many multiple chances.
One of the first examples shown was JT3. And as I said, he was successful, yet he didn't get the opportunities after Georgetown.
Using 2020 numbers, 80% of Major College Conference Scholarship Basketball Players are Black. The numbers are even higher if we discuss a team's best players.
29% Black Head Coaches. Now take away Historically Black Colleges and Universities, that drops to 24% Now use top 7 leagues, that drops to 23%. Now do Power 5 schools and its 14%.
There are roughly 10 Black Athletic Directors out of those 353. I know of one College Basketball Search Firm not run by a White Male. (Asian) We can also do University Presidents too.
You also mentioned Women. We won't waste people's time discussing Women hires in Men's College Basketball.
In Women's College Basketball, Women of color make up 14% of D-1 hires. (2019) Women in general make up 11% of AD hires (out of 356)
Fair points, but you still haven't provided of an example of a Black head coach "being held to a different standard, and, recycled less often too." Are you aware that multiple schools have reached out to JTIII since he was fired and he has turned down overtures? I know that George Washington and Vanderbilt both reached out to JTIII regarding their recent vacancies (and both hired other Black head coaches), and he did not pursue them. JTII currently works for the Washington Wizards and, by all accounts, is happy living and remaining in the D.C. area. Who are you thinking of what you declare this?
I think your argument is more Black coaches not having more opportunities to be head coaches (which involves having more assistant coaches and pathways to become head coaches), not that Black coaches are held to a different standard and are often recycled less.
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Add Craig Robinson to this list. One good season of two leading an Ivy League program, and he gets a P5 gig! And then is kept for 6 seasons and has a losing conference record every year.
Thanks, Obama.
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Fair points, but you still haven't provided of an example of a Black head coach "being held to a different standard, and, recycled less often too." Are you aware that multiple schools have reached out to JTIII since he was fired and he has turned down overtures? I know that George Washington and Vanderbilt both reached out to JTIII regarding their recent vacancies (and both hired other Black head coaches), and he did not pursue them. JTII currently works for the Washington Wizards and, by all accounts, is happy living and remaining in the D.C. area. Who are you thinking of what you declare this?
I think your argument is more Black coaches not having more opportunities to be head coaches (which involves having more assistant coaches and pathways to become head coaches), not that Black coaches are held to a different standard and are often recycled less.
Reaching out and being offered aren't the same thing. For example, JT3 wasn't offered the Vanderbilt position. Malcolm Turner hired Jerry Stackhouse.
I can walk through any Black or White Head Coach you want.
Part of being held to a different standard is getting the positions in the first place. Also, some of the Black coaches mentioned had success in order to get another position, some much more so than many White Coaches. Mike Anderson etc..Leonard Hamilton. Al Skinner led Boston College to some of its best success in school history. His next HC opportunity came five years later at Kennesaw St.
It's difficult to believe we have to have a conversation about equal opportunity and equal standards, but here we are.
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Anybody warming up to Moser yet?
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Thanks, Obama.
Wut?
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For the last few weeks, a fellow MU grad/fan has been texting me if I'm watching the Loyola game (because of Moser).
Usually, I'm not.
Today I received these three texts ...
"I used to say the Big East affiliation saved MU from being Loyola"
"Now"
"I wish Marquette was Loyola"
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Anybody warming up to Moser yet?
Nice win for Loyola, absolutely blitzed them in the second half, but one game, especially in this season, does nothing to change the narrative on Moser if you weren’t already enamored. Drake is having a nice season, but again, like a Loyola, it’s been built on beating down other teams in a soft MVC. Their non con was an AWFUL Kansas St team, an even worse Air Force team, and some scrubs. They just struggled mightily last weekend on the road against Valpo.
Also, FWIW, Drake is missing their leading scorer and second leading rebounder.
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Reaching out and being offered aren't the same thing. For example, JT3 wasn't offered the Vanderbilt position. Malcolm Turner hired Jerry Stackhouse.
I can walk through any Black or White Head Coach you want.
Part of being held to a different standard is getting the positions in the first place. Also, some of the Black coaches mentioned had success in order to get another position, some much more so than many White Coaches. Mike Anderson etc..Leonard Hamilton. Al Skinner led Boston College to some of its best success in school history. His next HC opportunity came five years later at Kennesaw St.
It's difficult to believe we have to have a conversation about equal opportunity and equal standards, but here we are.
That's a good example with Al Skinner. Boston College has not come close to the level of success they had under him, and he, for whatever reason, was not able to get another head coaching opportunity after BC (Kennesaw State is a substantial drop-off, yet he went 41-86 there). I think the Vanderbilt situation is not a good example to highlight because, while they did not hire JTIII, they still hired Jerry Stackhouse, a Black head coach and a coach that had zero collegiate coaching experience, which often does not end well (see Drexler, A. Johnson, Mullin, Porter, Price, Ewing, etc.).
I think the Big East, and Marquette, does a really strong job promoting Black head coaches (Ewing, Anderson, Leitao, Jordan, Cooley), as well as assistant coaches as part of the Coaches for Action group (21 Black assistant coaches in the Big East). The Big East, because of John Thompson, have always had a strong presence in the Black community and its attempt to promote and highlight.
As a previous poster said, you can make the argument that this topic is a big problem in the NFL or the even the NBA. I don't think it is as big a concern in college basketball. If you win, even if you cheat, you will always have other opportunities; if you lose, even cleanly, I think it is tremendously difficult to get another job.
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Nice win for Loyola, absolutely blitzed them in the second half, but one game, especially in this season, does nothing to change the narrative on Moser if you weren’t already enamored. Drake is having a nice season, but again, like a Loyola, it’s been built on beating down other teams in a soft MVC. Their non con was an AWFUL Kansas St team, an even worse Air Force team, and some scrubs. They just struggled mightily last weekend on the road against Valpo.
Also, FWIW, Drake is missing their leading scorer and second leading rebounder.
So what actually does change the narrative for Moser?
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I was high on Moser but it would mean starting with all new players since not a single Loyola player had even one tat.
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I’m fine with opening the checkbook for Moser. If he can recruit guys to willingly play at the Gentile Center, I think he’ll make the jump just fine.
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That's a good example with Al Skinner. Boston College has not come close to the level of success they had under him, and he, for whatever reason, was not able to get another head coaching opportunity after BC (Kennesaw State is a substantial drop-off, yet he went 41-86 there). I think the Vanderbilt situation is not a good example to highlight because, while they did not hire JTIII, they still hired Jerry Stackhouse, a Black head coach and a coach that had zero collegiate coaching experience, which often does not end well (see Drexler, A. Johnson, Mullin, Porter, Price, Ewing, etc.).
I think the Big East, and Marquette, does a really strong job promoting Black head coaches (Ewing, Anderson, Leitao, Jordan, Cooley), as well as assistant coaches as part of the Coaches for Action group (21 Black assistant coaches in the Big East). The Big East, because of John Thompson, have always had a strong presence in the Black community and its attempt to promote and highlight.
As a previous poster said, you can make the argument that this topic is a big problem in the NFL or the even the NBA. I don't think it is as big a concern in college basketball. If you win, even if you cheat, you will always have other opportunities; if you lose, even cleanly, I think it is tremendously difficult to get another job.
You mentioned JT3. I mentioned he wasn't getting offers after Georgetown.despite his success there and elsewhere. I included Vandy because you mentioned JT3 and Vandy. Now Vandy isn't a good example (the example was JT3 not Vandy) because they hired Stackhouse. Stack was hired by one of those few Black AD's that knew him from the NBA. (Since, Vandy has hired Candice Lee as its AD, the first ever Black Female AD in the history of the SEC Conference.)
Stack was hired because of his successful NBA and G League coaching experience. He was G League Coach of the Year and G League Champs. He is very well known for his Player Development. Somehow you lumped that into a group with, say, Clyde Drexler. Drexler didn't have coaching experience at those levels and went to his alma mater for two seasons. He then later spent one season as an NBA assistant.
Respectfully, I on't think you are making the points you think you are making here.
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So what actually does change the narrative for Moser?
Well, previously in this thread he wanted to "see how they do vs Drake."
Loyola wins by 27 on the road. "Drake was missing a player." "Drake had beaten soft teams in a bad league etc,.."
He doesn't like Moser. And that's fine.
But that doesn't change the success Moser is having at Loyola, and, had at SLU.
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Well, previously in this thread he wanted to "see how they do vs Drake."
Loyola wins by 27 on the road. "Drake was missing a player." "Drake had beaten soft teams in a bad league etc,.."
He doesn't like Moser. And that's fine.
But that doesn't change the success Moser is having at Loyola, and, had at SLU.
Honestly don’t care if people don’t like Moser (it’s all speculation and guessing for a coaching search that doesn’t even exist right now), but legitimately want to know what he needs to do to change minds.
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Honestly don’t care if people don’t like Moser (it’s all speculation and guessing for a coaching search that doesn’t even exist right now), but legitimately want to know what he needs to do to change minds.
I can't answer for him, but when one keeps moving the goalposts, as well only considers some parts of a resume and not others, some opinions aren't necessarily fact based and don't change.
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Thanks, Obama.
Craig Robinson is Michelle Obama's brother. The Obama-adjacent sheen probably helped Robinson's career, to a point.
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Reaching out and being offered aren't the same thing. For example, JT3 wasn't offered the Vanderbilt position. Malcolm Turner hired Jerry Stackhouse.
I can walk through any Black or White Head Coach you want.
Part of being held to a different standard is getting the positions in the first place. Also, some of the Black coaches mentioned had success in order to get another position, some much more so than many White Coaches. Mike Anderson etc..Leonard Hamilton. Al Skinner led Boston College to some of its best success in school history. His next HC opportunity came five years later at Kennesaw St.
It's difficult to believe we have to have a conversation about equal opportunity and equal standards, but here we are.
I'd appreciate if you went through it and what your criteria is exactly with regard to different and unequal standards? Are you saying because 80% of players are black the number of black D-1 coaches should be closer to 80% than 30%? I don't disagree that there have been very successful black coaches like Skinner, Smith, Anderson, that seemingly disappeared. What ever happened to Kevin Ollie?
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I was high on Moser but it would mean starting with all new players since not a single Loyola player had even one tat.
Too many honkies on his roster, aina?
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Honestly don’t care if people don’t like Moser (it’s all speculation and guessing for a coaching search that doesn’t even exist right now), but legitimately want to know what he needs to do to change minds.
Nothing that happens this season for me, a bunch of wins against a conference that is very weak outside of Drake and Loyola doesn’t suddenly change my mind on a 50 something coach who has been decent to pretty good his entire career outside of one season.
Well, previously in this thread he wanted to "see how they do vs Drake."
Loyola wins by 27 on the road. "Drake was missing a player." "Drake had beaten soft teams in a bad league etc,.."
He doesn't like Moser. And that's fine.
But that doesn't change the success Moser is having at Loyola, and, had at SLU.
Drake was the “best” remaining team on their schedule. Drake also has a very flimsy resume. Those are both true statements. They had already looked less dominant the last month since I said that statement. They lost to a bad Valpo team and trailed much of the game they ended up winning. Perceptions of teams can change since I said that.
Drake is also missing their one of their most key players, again a fact. Cause I know you are insistent in using those. I didn’t say “oh Drake just had an off shooting night” “oh the schedule didn’t work in their favor”. I just stated absolutes.
I don’t think Moser is an incredibly attractive candidate. He’s been good at Loyola for the last few years, that’s undeniable. Trumpeting his “success” at SLU is silly. As an assistant, they were 69-61, 32-32 in conference with only a single CBI bid (and that was very much in line with what Sodeberg was doing). The best season Rick had was after Moser left. Using that as a feather in Moser’s camp is another reach, just like calling Majerus’s coaching tree solid by citing multiple assistants who still aren’t HCs a decade later and Jim Whitesell who is another coach in the category of “ok”. Many coaches around the country who are very successful don’t have great coaching trees, absolutely true, but then don’t use time spent under them as a glowing endorsement of a coach.
If we move on from Wojo and Moser is the guy, I’ll support him 100% and hope he recruits the hell out of Chicago and makes me look like an idiot. But until Loyola faces major conference competition and plays as well as they do against the Illinois St and Southern Illinois of the world, I’ll take this season with a grain of salt.
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Moser's numbers at Loyola were very poor in his first five years. They have been very good in his last five years. If this is his new normal, and he can recruit high major players, I think he'd do well if he moved up.
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You mentioned JT3. I mentioned he wasn't getting offers after Georgetown.despite his success there and elsewhere. I included Vandy because you mentioned JT3 and Vandy. Now Vandy isn't a good example (the example was JT3 not Vandy) because they hired Stackhouse. Stack was hired by one of those few Black AD's that knew him from the NBA. (Since, Vandy has hired Candice Lee as its AD, the first ever Black Female AD in the history of the SEC Conference.)
Stack was hired because of his successful NBA and G League coaching experience. He was G League Coach of the Year and G League Champs. He is very well known for his Player Development. Somehow you lumped that into a group with, say, Clyde Drexler. Drexler didn't have coaching experience at those levels and went to his alma mater for two seasons. He then later spent one season as an NBA assistant.
Respectfully, I on't think you are making the points you think you are making here.
I mentioned JTIII as a minority coach that was not treated differently due to his W/L records. I added that he was considered for other jobs after Georgetown, but that - from all intents - he remains happy living in the D.C. area working with the Washington Wizards.
I used Stackhouse as an example of a minority candidate getting a head coaching job despite not having any collegiate coaching experience (which is far more rare a coach of color getting a head coaching opportunity).
I'm simply trying to understand your generalized statement about Black coaches "often being held to a different standard, and, are often recycled less often too." I'm just not seeing any widespread examples of it. You spoke of Skinner; that was a good one that fits that statement. I just don't think there are many like it IMO.
We can respectfully agree to disagree. Apologies if I was unclear.
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Nothing that happens this season for me, a bunch of wins against a conference that is very weak outside of Drake and Loyola doesn’t suddenly change my mind on a 50 something coach who has been decent to pretty good his entire career outside of one season.
Drake was the “best” remaining team on their schedule. Drake also has a very flimsy resume. Those are both true statements. They had already looked less dominant the last month since I said that statement. They lost to a bad Valpo team and trailed much of the game they ended up winning. Perceptions of teams can change since I said that.
Drake is also missing their one of their most key players, again a fact. Cause I know you are insistent in using those. I didn’t say “oh Drake just had an off shooting night” “oh the schedule didn’t work in their favor”. I just stated absolutes.
I don’t think Moser is an incredibly attractive candidate. He’s been good at Loyola for the last few years, that’s undeniable. Trumpeting his “success” at SLU is silly. As an assistant, they were 69-61, 32-32 in conference with only a single CBI bid (and that was very much in line with what Sodeberg was doing). The best season Rick had was after Moser left. Using that as a feather in Moser’s camp is another reach, just like calling Majerus’s coaching tree solid by citing multiple assistants who still aren’t HCs a decade later and Jim Whitesell who is another coach in the category of “ok”. Many coaches around the country who are very successful don’t have great coaching trees, absolutely true, but then don’t use time spent under them as a glowing endorsement of a coach.
If we move on from Wojo and Moser is the guy, I’ll support him 100% and hope he recruits the hell out of Chicago and makes me look like an idiot. But until Loyola faces major conference competition and plays as well as they do against the Illinois St and Southern Illinois of the world, I’ll take this season with a grain of salt.
So what conferences should Marquette’s head coach come from? MVC is a pretty good mid major conference.
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Honestly don’t care if people don’t like Moser (it’s all speculation and guessing for a coaching search that doesn’t even exist right now), but legitimately want to know what he needs to do to change minds.
Can only speak for myself, but for me, it was just watching his team play multiple full games. I loved the final 4 run but wrote it off as a fluke. But he's doing it again this season with another bunch of nobodies. I actually have sat down and watched Loyola play 6 full games this year. He has them playing like a well-oiled machine. The sum is drastically greater than its parts. Everyone's footwork is great, defensive positioning is great, the passing is great, and everyone plays poised/confident no matter the score or time. And the off-ball movement is sublime. If you have the game recorded what jumps off the tape to me on a re-watch in fast-forward is the amount of cutting & passing involved in each possession. It really pops in the FF format. I've done the same for MU and even in FF there's an inordinate amount of standing without the ball. Drives me insane.
That would be my suggestion to anyone skeptical. Just watch a full game of theirs. You will walk away saying to yourself "that is an extremely well-coached team." I have every single time this year, and I was definitely a skeptic.
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Nothing that happens this season for me, a bunch of wins against a conference that is very weak outside of Drake and Loyola doesn’t suddenly change my mind on a 50 something coach who has been decent to pretty good his entire career outside of one season.
Drake was the “best” remaining team on their schedule. Drake also has a very flimsy resume. Those are both true statements. They had already looked less dominant the last month since I said that statement. They lost to a bad Valpo team and trailed much of the game they ended up winning. Perceptions of teams can change since I said that.
Drake is also missing their one of their most key players, again a fact. Cause I know you are insistent in using those. I didn’t say “oh Drake just had an off shooting night” “oh the schedule didn’t work in their favor”. I just stated absolutes.
I don’t think Moser is an incredibly attractive candidate. He’s been good at Loyola for the last few years, that’s undeniable. Trumpeting his “success” at SLU is silly. As an assistant, they were 69-61, 32-32 in conference with only a single CBI bid (and that was very much in line with what Sodeberg was doing). The best season Rick had was after Moser left. Using that as a feather in Moser’s camp is another reach, just like calling Majerus’s coaching tree solid by citing multiple assistants who still aren’t HCs a decade later and Jim Whitesell who is another coach in the category of “ok”. Many coaches around the country who are very successful don’t have great coaching trees, absolutely true, but then don’t use time spent under them as a glowing endorsement of a coach.
If we move on from Wojo and Moser is the guy, I’ll support him 100% and hope he recruits the hell out of Chicago and makes me look like an idiot. But until Loyola faces major conference competition and plays as well as they do against the Illinois St and Southern Illinois of the world, I’ll take this season with a grain of salt.
You demonstrate a basic lack of knowledge of Moser's time at SLU, both his time there and their program at that time. Who do you think recruited and helped develop a majority of the players that won lots of games, a few league titles, NCAA's, etc...McCall, Jett, Mitchell, Conklin, Loe, Ellis???
Again it's okay to have an opinion. But here it isn't informed. Elsewhere the goalposts are moved. Other times some parts are not included but not others.
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I mentioned JTIII as a minority coach that was not treated differently due to his W/L records. I added that he was considered for other jobs after Georgetown, but that - from all intents - he remains happy living in the D.C. area working with the Washington Wizards.
I used Stackhouse as an example of a minority candidate getting a head coaching job despite not having any collegiate coaching experience (which is far more rare a coach of color getting a head coaching opportunity).
I'm simply trying to understand your generalized statement about Black coaches "often being held to a different standard, and, are often recycled less often too." I'm just not seeing any widespread examples of it. You spoke of Skinner; that was a good one that fits that statement. I just don't think there are many like it IMO.
We can respectfully agree to disagree. Apologies if I was unclear.
I answered your JT3 by saying offers aren't consideration. He didn't start with the Wizards until being a few years removed from College Basketball where he wasn't getting high level offers. Unlike many other (often White) coaches with less success.
You lumped Stackhouse in with other coaches with a wide variety of experience. I also explained he received rhe Vandy opportunity because he knew Vandy's new Black AD from the NBA/G League.
You asked for an example, I gave you Skinner.
It was mentioned today that Mike Anderson, among his other success, has the 3rd longest .500 or better streak behind Izzo and Few. The difference between standards are interesting.
My posts speak for themselves. We disagree.
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Craig Robinson is Michelle Obama's brother. The Obama-adjacent sheen probably helped Robinson's career, to a point.
Thought that was obvious. Apparently not.
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You demonstrate a basic lack of knowledge of Moser's time at SLU, both his time there and their program at that time. Who do you think recruited and helped develop a majority of the players that won lots of games, a few league titles, NCAA's, etc...McCall, Jett, Mitchell, Conklin, Loe, Ellis???
Again it's okay to have an opinion. But here it isn't informed. Elsewhere the goalposts are moved. Other times some parts are not included but not others.
I forgot you’re more knowledgeable than anyone else, you have the intricate SLU knowledge of why Moser, career middle of the road coach, suddenly transformed players in his time in STL that he then moved on to Loyola and wallowed in more mediocrity for 5 years before figuring some stuff. A single season with Moser the Magician set the stage for why Jordair Jett and Mike McCall were excellent Juniors and Everyone else is just uninformed. Got it
You can admit that you have a higher opinion of Moser due to your affinity for all things SLU/Majerus and others have a lower opinion for their own reasons without calling everyone else uninformed or not knowledgeable.
So what conferences should Marquette’s head coach come from? MVC is a pretty good mid major conference.
Historically, yes. Losing Wichita St, Creighton, UNI having down years 4 of the last 5, SIU being mediocre for the last decade after being a strong program, etc... has hurt the conference strength IMO.
But it’s not just the conference, it’s assessing an older established coach who has 12 seasons of mediocre coaching preceding a pretty nice stretch. So you’re trying to assess if it’s someone who has turned it around, like TAMU said, or someone who has found their level. A good benchmark is performance against teams outside of the conference at a higher level, NCAAs or out of conference.
I’m not picking on the MVC. I’d say the same thing if we were talking about, say, John Groce who had suddenly turned it on in the MAC, or an experienced coach who struggled in stops but now was doing well at Morehead St in the OVC but didn’t do much out of conference
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I’m fine with opening the checkbook for Moser. If he can recruit guys to willingly play at the Gentile Center, I think he’ll make the jump just fine.
He can recruit MVC-talent-level guys to willingly play at the Gentile Center. We can't possibly know yet if he'd be able to recruit BEast-talent-level players to Marquette.
Having said that, I have no knock on Moser other than the obvious -- he had a very undistinguished coaching career (maybe even "bad," depending on how tough a grader one is) until the FF run. Beginning with that season, his results at his sub-P6 level have been very good. So as TAMU said, it's a matter of convincing oneself that the switch has been flipped and he has become an outstanding coach after years and years in which the results suggested he wasn't that. Maybe he has. It does happen. And beyond that, it's a matter of convincing oneself that he can succeed at the next level. That also happens regularly ... though often not for guys who have been a head coach only at lower levels for nearly two decades.
Nothing in this win over Drake makes me feel any better or worse about him. Loyola played well. Its big man could score just about any time he wanted to. Drake was without its best player. It was only a one-game sample. Given Loyola's fine record this season, it probably was indicative of how well they've played all season against this competition.
I am realistic enough to know that somebody like Moser very likely could be our next coach. And optimist that I am, I will be very open-minded and I will happily root for him to get our program back up to at least Buzz-level success.
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He can recruit MVC-talent-level guys to willingly play at the Gentile Center. We can't possibly know yet if he'd be able to recruit BEast-talent-level players to Marquette.
Having said that, I have no knock on Moser other than the obvious -- he had a very undistinguished coaching career (maybe even "bad," depending on how tough a grader one is) until the FF run. Beginning with that season, his results at his sub-P6 level have been very good. So as TAMU said, it's a matter of convincing oneself that the switch has been flipped and he has become an outstanding coach after years and years in which the results suggested he wasn't that. Maybe he has. It does happen. And beyond that, it's a matter of convincing oneself that he can succeed at the next level. That also happens regularly ... though often as not for guys who have been a head coach only at lower levels for nearly two decades.
Nothing in this win over Drake makes me feel any better or worse about him. Loyola played well. It's big man could score just about any time he wanted to. Drake was without its best player. It was only a one-game sample. Given Loyola's fine record this season, it probably was indicative of how well they've played all season against this competition.
I am realistic enough to know that somebody like Moser very likely could be our next coach. And optimist that I am, I will be very open-minded and I will happily root for him to get our program back up to at least Buzz-level success.
Very well said Mike. Sums up my thoughts in a pretty neat manner as well. I have my doubts, I’m not super optimistic about MUBB at the moment, but I want to be wrong about a less than inspiring coaching prospect as much as I would want to be right about an exciting one. Cause either way means that they are a good coach who has steadied a ship taking on water
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Honestly don’t care if people don’t like Moser (it’s all speculation and guessing for a coaching search that doesn’t even exist right now), but legitimately want to know what he needs to do to change minds.
Oh, I would not be so sure about that!
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I answered your JT3 by saying offers aren't consideration. He didn't start with the Wizards until being a few years removed from College Basketball where he wasn't getting high level offers. Unlike many other (often White) coaches with less success.
You lumped Stackhouse in with other coaches with a wide variety of experience. I also explained he received rhe Vandy opportunity because he knew Vandy's new Black AD from the NBA/G League.
You asked for an example, I gave you Skinner.
It was mentioned today that Mike Anderson, among his other success, has the 3rd longest .500 or better streak behind Izzo and Few. The difference between standards are interesting.
My posts speak for themselves. We disagree.
Go through the open head coaching positions the past 5 years and specifically who has been offered the jobs and their merits. I'm not saying you're wrong but 'm also not sure the pool of specifically black candidates is as large as you're suggesting.
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I forgot you’re more knowledgeable than anyone else, you have the intricate SLU knowledge of why Moser, career middle of the road coach, suddenly transformed players in his time in STL that he then moved on to Loyola and wallowed in more mediocrity for 5 years before figuring some stuff. A single season with Moser the Magician set the stage for why Jordair Jett and Mike McCall were excellent Juniors and Everyone else is just uninformed. Got it
You can admit that you have a higher opinion of Moser due to your affinity for all things SLU/Majerus and others have a lower opinion for their own reasons without calling everyone else uninformed or not knowledgeable.
Historically, yes. Losing Wichita St, Creighton, UNI having down years 4 of the last 5, SIU being mediocre for the last decade after being a strong program, etc... has hurt the conference strength IMO.
But it’s not just the conference, it’s assessing an older established coach who has 12 seasons of mediocre coaching preceding a pretty nice stretch. So you’re trying to assess if it’s someone who has turned it around, like TAMU said, or someone who has found their level. A good benchmark is performance against teams outside of the conference at a higher level, NCAAs or out of conference.
I’m not picking on the MVC. I’d say the same thing if we were talking about, say, John Groce who had suddenly turned it on in the MAC, or an experienced coach who struggled in stops but now was doing well at Morehead St in the OVC but didn’t do much out of conference
You posted about Moser's time at SLU. (Not the first time) But as you have a tendency to do, you include some things and not others. I am all for including everything.
When it was pointed out to you that Moser recruited many of those successful players at SLU, and, he took part in some of their player development, your response is to attack the messenger that provides the information. This information isn't exclusive to me. There are many other places and people from which to obtain this information.
Who do you think sat in the Homestead Gym recruiting Mitchell, or NW Chicago burbs for Evans, or CPL for McCall? and so on.
I believe in what's fair.
Many people here posted about Brian Wardle. I have nothing against Brian. But his experience in the same league, overlapping a similar time to Moser was not as good as Moser. I don't believe I have ever posted anything about Moser ever, prior to that. It seemed odd to me that some people would include one without the other in the same sentence. (I do understand Wardle went to Marquette and was on staff before.)
Then more people made posts that included Moser more often. It isn't surprising considering the success he is having and his background.
I'm all for people including his resume prior to SLU, or as TAMU mentioned, it took him a few years to get it going at Loyola. Etc...those are all fair discussions. But even as TAMU just mentioned, the trend of Moser going back almost 15 years skews positive direction, let alone the past five. Would Moser be able to recruit well enough for Big East level? Etc..All fair questions.
That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.
With regards to posts and posting, there are many threads I either don't read, or don't think or feel there is anything to add, or don't know much about. If I know something or if I have something to add I add. If I don't know something, I post or ask. (You won't likely find me in the Bitcoin thread)
Back to why we are here. Had you acknowledged Moser's success at Loyola and SLU, and still said not interested, we wouldn't have had a discussion. I've never once posted here advocating that Porter Moser be an MUBB coaching candidate. Feel free to look.
He did a lot at SLU. He also ran the program day to day when Rick wasn't available for personal reasons, (his mom) as well as health reasons. This was all while working for one of the least Athletic friendly school Presidents out there.
I remember I believe BrewCity77 and TAMU discussing coaches and the value of how one does in one's league. It matters as it is a big part of a season. Dominating your league for four straight years has value. As I believe I mentioned to them at the time, NCAA results have value too, as do other things etc...Rivalries...That all counts too. Fund Raising and facility/resource improvements have value as well, if a coach is part of a reason for it. I would add that getting NCAA results in my opinion is easier to do in the Power 5/Big East Leagues than many other leagues. That matters too.
So again, with this particular example being Moser, what he did at SLU has value to some people. What he has been doing since at Loyola has value for some people. If people hadn't posted about the topic, I probably never would have had a post with his name in it. I also posted about Dennis Gates, but people hear what they want to hear.
It's like today, and some people were having a discussion about Black Head Coaches. I look at the totality of the information available and form an opinion. I'm not going to move the goalposts, or only include some things and not others or downplay this or that. And opinions can and do change sometimes as well. I even think it would be fair to say that some people's opinion of Moser's Basketball resume has changed since before and after the time mentioned. I think its fair to say there has been some progress with regards to Black Head Coaches. But I think it's also fair to say there is a very long way to go there, and the progress hasn't been good enough.
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You posted about Moser's time at SLU. (Not the first time) But as you have a tendency to do, you include some things and not others. I am all for including everything.
When it was pointed out to you that Moser recruited many of those successful players at SLU, and, he took part in some of their player development, your response is to attack the messenger that provides the information. This information isn't exclusive to me. There are many other places and people from which to obtain this information.
Who do you think sat in the Homestead Gym recruiting Mitchell, or NW Chicago burbs for Evans, or CPL for McCall? and so on.
I believe in what's fair.
Many people here posted about Brian Wardle. I have nothing against Brian. But his experience in the same league, overlapping a similar time to Moser was not as good as Moser. I don't believe I have ever posted anything about Moser ever, prior to that. It seemed odd to me that some people would include one without the other in the same sentence. (I do understand Wardle went to Marquette and was on staff before.)
Then more people made posts that included Moser more often. It isn't surprising considering the success he is having and his background.
I'm all for people including his resume prior to SLU, or as TAMU mentioned, it took him a few years to get it going at Loyola. Etc...those are all fair discussions. But even as TAMU just mentioned, the trend of Moser going back almost 15 years skews positive direction, let alone the past five. Would Moser be able to recruit well enough for Big East level? Etc..All fair questions.
That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.
With regards to posts and posting, there are many threads I either don't read, or don't think or feel there is anything to add, or don't know much about. If I know something or if I have something to add I add. If I don't know something, I post or ask. (You won't likely find me in the Bitcoin thread)
Back to why we are here. Had you acknowledged Moser's success at Loyola and SLU, and still said not interested, we wouldn't have had a discussion. I've never once posted here advocating that Porter Moser be an MUBB coaching candidate. Feel free to look.
He did a lot at SLU. He also ran the program day to day when Rick wasn't available for personal reasons, (his mom) as well as health reasons. This was all while working for one of the least Athletic friendly school Presidents out there.
I remember I believe BrewCity77 and TAMU discussing coaches and the value of how one does in one's league. It matters as it is a big part of a season. Dominating your league for four straight years has value. As I believe I mentioned to them at the time, NCAA results have value too, as do other things etc...Rivalries...That all counts too. Fund Raising and facility/resource improvements have value as well, if a coach is part of a reason for it. I would add that getting NCAA results in my opinion is easier to do in the Power 5/Big East Leagues than many other leagues. That matters too.
So again, with this particular example being Moser, what he did at SLU has value to some people. What he has been doing since at Loyola has value for some people. If people hadn't posted about the topic, I probably never would have had a post with his name in it.
It's like today, and some people were having a discussion about Black Head Coaches. I look at the totality of the information available and form an opinion. I'm not going to move the goalposts, or only include some things and not others or downplay this or that. And opinions can and do change sometimes as well. I even think it would be fair to say that some people's opinion of Moser's Basketball resume has changed since before and after the time mentioned. I think its fair to say there has been some progress with regards to Black Head Coaches. But I think it's also fair to say there is a very long way to go there, and the progress hasn't been good enough.
With regards to your last paragraph is it conceivable that you need to know far more information to support your overall point? Because I think you do and each hire and situation is different
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I need to apologize to the entire Scoop community.
I recently said Moser’s team was 14th in KenPom. I was wrong.
His team is 10th in KenPom.
I regret my error.
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I need to apologize to the entire Scoop community.
I recently said Moser’s team was 14th in KenPom. I was wrong.
His team is 10th in KenPom.
I regret my error.
Whoops, apologies again. He’s no longer 10th in KenPom. He’s 11th.
Virginia is 10th. Virginia, hmmmm.
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Whoops, apologies again. He’s no longer 10th in KenPom. He’s 11th.
Virginia is 10th. Virginia, hmmmm.
Exactly why I love the "can he do it in the BEAST with BEAST players" comments. Wtf...if he can produce a KenPom 11th rated team i couldn't care less what his recruiting rankings are. I'll go out on a limb and say it's easier to make a FF run and produce a top 10 team at MU than it is at Loyola.
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Might have been said in previous 32 pages; but saw Crean got smoked 82-112 today to Alabama. 12-8 (5-8) on year.
Would both sides be desperate enough for a re-marriage? ;)
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I was high on Moser but it would mean starting with all new players since not a single Loyola player had even one tat.
not to mention their starting center looks 42...but hey, recruiting the midnight muni league might be ok. (he’s better than Theo)
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Exactly why I love the "can he do it in the BEAST with BEAST players" comments. Wtf...if he can produce a KenPom 11th rated team i couldn't care less what his recruiting rankings are. I'll go out on a limb and say it's easier to make a FF run and produce a top 10 team at MU than it is at Loyola.
I think Moser has done well this year, but I'm not convinced his team would be top-10 in kenpom against a Big East schedule. They've battered sub-100 teams, but doing similar against our schedule is a different animal.
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I think Moser has done well this year, but I'm not convinced his team would be top-10 in kenpom against a Big East schedule. They've battered sub-100 teams, but doing similar against our schedule is a different animal.
Financials aside, I still think the best fit for MU is TJO. Success at several stops, Milwaukee guy and has extensive recruiting ties in the Midwest (engineered Iowa State’s recruiting success mainly through Wisconsin connections)
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I think Moser has done well this year, but I'm not convinced his team would be top-10 in kenpom against a Big East schedule. They've battered sub-100 teams, but doing similar against our schedule is a different animal.
And, of course, Moser's current team doesn't have to be top 10 KenPom with a Big East schedule. If and when he's in the Big East, with Big East resources, Big East recruiting, etc...then we can visit that. What he's doing is dominating the MVC for the fourth straight season.
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not to mention their starting center looks 42...but hey, recruiting the midnight muni league might be ok. (he’s better than Theo)
At least the Loyola dude is a basketball player, hey?
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Financials aside, I still think the best fit for MU is TJO. Success at several stops, Milwaukee guy and has extensive recruiting ties in the Midwest (engineered Iowa State’s recruiting success mainly through Wisconsin connections)
TJO would be a homerun but he’s a little dirty. Cut from the same cloth as Buzz. He’d crush it at MU, but that’s not our game. Hence my push for Porter.
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TJO would be a homerun but he’s a little dirty. Cut from the same cloth as Buzz. He’d crush it at MU, but that’s not our game. Hence my push for Porter.
How is he dirty?
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Otz in the process of tarnishing a storied program, ai’na?
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Otz in the process of tarnishing a storied program, ai’na?
Unlv has finished ranked in the AP top 25 twice since 1993.
In present day college basketball, it’s a very, very tough place to win.
ai’na?
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Might have been said in previous 32 pages; but saw Crean got smoked 82-112 today to Alabama. 12-8 (5-8) on year.
Would both sides be desperate enough for a re-marriage? ;)
Crean’s in better shape in the SEC than the other former MU coach. But they both got that SEC money, so good for them.
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Mark Pope sure seems a guy ready for a high major job and a guy we should have a good chance to bring here. Has done very well as head coach at two schools almost 6 full seasons in, after playing and assisting at high majors. He even has Milwaukee connection through NBA.
He should be high on our list. He won’t be at BYU much longer.
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He should be high on our list. He won’t be at BYU much longer.
I expect him to retire there. The Mormons will pay him the moon and stars to keep him in Provo.
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Mark Pope sure seems a guy ready for a high major job and a guy we should have a good chance to bring here. Has done very well as head coach at two schools almost 6 full seasons in, after playing and assisting at high majors. He even has Milwaukee connection through NBA.
He should be high on our list. He won’t be at BYU much longer.
From what I've read and heard, Pope is a Mormon, he loves everything about the state of Utah, and BYU is his dream job.
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From what I've read and heard, Pope is a Mormon, he loves everything about the state of Utah, and BYU is his dream job.
So, you’re saying he says “This is the Place” daily?
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Crean. Buzz. Wojo. All high major assistants with no big time program leading experience. Varying levels of success but mostly success.
We’re not getting Oates, TJO, hell even Moser. I think BOT sticks to the high assistant level plan. I still really like Jakus from Baylor. Chicago roots, spent time with Few in Gonzaga, etc.
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Crean. Buzz. Wojo. All high major assistants with no big time program leading experience. Varying levels of success but mostly success.
We’re not getting Oates, TJO, hell even Moser. I think BOT sticks to the high assistant level plan. I still really like Jakus from Baylor. Chicago roots, spent time with Few in Gonzaga, etc.
Bill Cords was AD from 1987-2007, I think, and came back as interim AD around 2013 or so. He was responsible for hiring KO, Crean, and Wojo. Buzz was hired by Steve Cottingham, who had worked at Marquette for nearly two decades before becoming AD. So all four of those guys were essentially hired by the same regime. There's no telling what Scholl will do if he has to conduct a search, but I can pretty much guarantee you they will not go the assistant route this time around.
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Crean. Buzz. Wojo. All high major assistants with no big time program leading experience. Varying levels of success but mostly success.
We’re not getting Oates, TJO, hell even Moser. I think BOT sticks to the high assistant level plan. I still really like Jakus from Baylor. Chicago roots, spent time with Few in Gonzaga, etc.
Just looked into that Jakus guy, on the surface I’d get him an interview.
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Hire someone with a strong background of having good bagmen who cover their tracks well. Cheaters may get fired, but titles are forever
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From what I've read and heard, Pope is a Mormon, he loves everything about the state of Utah, and BYU is his dream job.
Oh, the irony. When the Pope won't even give MU a look-see, we know things are dire.
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TJO would be a homerun but he’s a little dirty. Cut from the same cloth as Buzz. He’d crush it at MU, but that’s not our game. Hence my push for Porter.
i don’t know, isn’t the Creighton HC ‘dirty’? I assume you loved that Elite 8 w/Brent. I’m starving in this frozen tundra known as the BADger state. I say just win baby.
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i don’t know, isn’t the Creighton HC ‘dirty’? I assume you loved that Elite 8 w/Brent. I’m starving in this frozen tundra known as the BADger state. I say just win baby.
I don’t need to be convinced. We’re the school of Al McGuire, we specialized in the gray areas. This admin tho? They want it clean (while also celebrating Al & Buzz’s success every single day).
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Oh, the irony. When the Pope won't even give MU a look-see, we know things are dire.
Nice
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I don’t need to be convinced. We’re the school of Al McGuire, we specialized in the gray areas. This admin tho? They want it clean (while also celebrating Al & Buzz’s success every single day).
Al would have died in prison by today's standards.
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Would never make it today. Three point line, shot clock, would be in trouble for fighting with players. Everybody is mining what used to be his fertile recruiting areas. Arguing with administration. Flirtations with the NBA. Terrible record at a basketball backwater. fuggedaboutit
BS. How dare you blasheme? Also would crush it. There's no match to Al or Vince.
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I expect him to retire there. The Mormons will pay him the moon and stars to keep him in Provo.
Correct. Major money at BYU. And, since school policy says head coaches must be Mormon they'll pay up since the pool is so smaller. The other candidates the last time around were Barrett Peavy (Portland State) and Mark Madsen (Pope's successor at Utah Valley).
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At least the Loyola dude is a basketball player, hey?
Bro, Theo’s looking for you now, not cool man
🥴
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I didn't watch one second of today's Loyola-Drake rematch because I was busy watching our fine game. I did just read a couple of articles about the game, a 51-50 OT victory for Drake.
So ... Moser's team lost to a team that was inferior (according to most Scoopers who had commented during the first one), managed only 50 points even though it went into OT, blew a double-digit lead, and lost to a team that was missing its best player? And afterward, there was nearly a brawl, with Moser blaming Drake's coaches and players?
Fun!
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Moser recently turned down a 2+ million offer from St. John’s. We would have to pay out the ass to get him here. I have no knowledge on how deep MU’s pockets are, but are we able to get into the $3 million range for a coach? Anything less and I feel we are really rolling the dice anyway.
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I have no interest in Moser. Given Nads comments, the Drake dude is intriguing, hey?
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Moser recently turned down a 2+ million offer from St. John’s. We would have to pay out the ass to get him here. I have no knowledge on how deep MU’s pockets are, but are we able to get into the $3 million range for a coach? Anything less and I feel we are really rolling the dice anyway.
I think there was more to Moser turning down St John's than the salary.
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FWIW, the Coaching Changes Twitter account (run by a number of anonymous assistant D1 coaches over the years, and has been very accurate in predicting hirings/firings) is not only predicting Wojo gone in a few weeks but that TC is definitely in play as a new hire.
I would not be shocked at all by a homecoming.
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FWIW, the Coaching Changes Twitter account (run by a number of anonymous assistant D1 coaches over the years, and has been very accurate in predicting hirings/firings) is not only predicting Wojo gone in a few weeks but that TC is definitely in play as a new hire.
I would not be shocked at all by a homecoming.
This would be very entertaining.
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FWIW, the Coaching Changes Twitter account (run by a number of anonymous assistant D1 coaches over the years, and has been very accurate in predicting hirings/firings) is not only predicting Wojo gone in a few weeks but that TC is definitely in play as a new hire.
I would not be shocked at all by a homecoming.
Boy, I wonder who gave them that hot scoop... ;D
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Possibly MU would be interested in TC part II, but has there been any sentiment of interest FROM TC?
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FWIW, the Coaching Changes Twitter account (run by a number of anonymous assistant D1 coaches over the years, and has been very accurate in predicting hirings/firings) is not only predicting Wojo gone in a few weeks but that TC is definitely in play as a new hire.
I would not be shocked at all by a homecoming.
I would not be a fan of that. Crean’s Indiana record is definitely better than I remember it, but I’d rather take a chance on a mid-major up and comer.
Weren’t there some rumors of Cords wanting to hire O’Neill again last time around?
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Possibly MU would be interested in TC part II, but has there been any sentiment of interest FROM TC?
Who do you think fed them that rumor?
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I would not be a fan of that. Crean’s Indiana record is definitely better than I remember it, but I’d rather take a chance on a mid-major up and comer.
Weren’t there some rumors of Cords wanting to hire O’Neill again last time around?
The problem is that the school, with where MUBB is at right now, cannot afford investing in another uncertainty. Wojo, at present, has led to an MU setback that has not been seen in decades. MU needs a proven experienced coach that will have them competing for tournament bids annually. With regards to TC, he still has great fondness for MU and his time here. IMO, the IU experience greatly humbled him. TC is also bringing in elite level recruits to UGA, something unheard of in Athens, especially since it is not a basketball-first program.
Again, not saying it will definitely happen, but I would definitely envision mutual interest there. And Crean would bring immediate visibility and marketability for fans and alums after this disaster Wojo has overseen.
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Crean sucks
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The problem is that the school, with where MUBB is at right now, cannot afford investing in another uncertainty. Wojo, at present, has led to an MU setback that has not been seen in decades. MU needs a proven experienced coach that will have them competing for tournament bids annually. With regards to TC, he still has great fondness for MU and his time here. IMO, the IU experience greatly humbled him. TC is also bringing in elite level recruits to UGA, something unheard of in Athens, especially since it is not a basketball-first program.
Again, not saying it will definitely happen, but I would definitely envision mutual interest there. And Crean would bring immediate visibility and marketability for fans and alums after this disaster Wojo has overseen.
I definitely get that. But I don’t know that bringing Crean back exactly puts us on a safer track. I was new to Scoop when Crean left, but I seem to remember a lot of people weren’t exactly bummed that he left. Look at the jokes made when DePaul rehired an old coach. I don’t think Crean excites the casual fan.
Also, I think it was pretty established that Crean hit a ceiling at MU. Maybe he’s grown and I know he’s recruiting at a fairy high level at Georgia.
I also think he’d walk on his hands and knees from Athens for the job.
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MU hiring Crean back would literally be the same scenario as DePaul rehiring Leaito. It would be a freaking joke.
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I definitely get that. But I don’t know that bringing Crean back exactly puts us on a safer track. I was new to Scoop when Crean left, but I seem to remember a lot of people weren’t exactly bummed that he left. Look at the jokes made when DePaul rehired an old coach. I don’t think Crean excites the casual fan.
Also, I think it was pretty established that Crean hit a ceiling at MU. Maybe he’s grown and I know he’s recruiting at a fairy high level at Georgia.
I also think he’d walk on his hands and knees from Athens for the job.
No doubt MU was spurned when Crean left for IU. Crean also did not handle his exit with the players well either. Crean, for several years, was booed in the opening video montage as well. However, Crean made the NCAAT five of eight years, and never finished lower than fifth in a loaded 16-team Big East. Crean arguably hit his ceiling at MU the first go-around, but it is also arguable that he might very well be a better coach since he left. He did still manage to get IU to a #1 ranking, two B1G Championships and three S16s (while failing to meet expectations at IU). MU needs someone, and who know if it is TC, to right this ship, provide stability and get us back on track towards competing for NCAAT appearances annually, with an occasional second weekend (or beyond) showing. Wojo has failed to deliver that expectation, and a coach like TC has that on his resume.
Regarding Dave Leitao: DL left DePaul after three years for Virginia, and got fired within four seasons. He six years between head coaching gigs, and - if not for DePaul - Leitao likely is not a head coach anywhere else (instead being a lead assistant). Crean was at MU for nearly a decade and was very much rooted in our school and community, much like he was at IU. In addition, DL was hired at DePaul because of certain parameters and expectations the (now former) AD gave all candidates (DL was more than willing to do that). I would argue that the cases are not at all similar. Their resumes are vastly different.
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MU hiring Crean back would literally be the same scenario as DePaul rehiring Leaito. It would be a freaking joke.
I would take a joke of a Final Four.
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MU hiring Crean back would literally be the same scenario as DePaul rehiring Leaito. It would be a freaking joke.
"literally the same"? Did I miss Leatio's rebuild and Final Four his first time around.
I'm not in favor of Crean but his resume is "literally" 10x better than Leatio's.
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Time heals all wounds. Crean came to the reunion event, was humble and appreciative, and well-received by the audience. He's not coming back, but I personally would be excited about it.
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If I were convinced that we would be getting the "same" Crean back, I would be fine with it. Is he still as hungry? Can he still recruit? Will he drive 4ever crazy? Yes to all three and I'd go for it.
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If I were convinced that we would be getting the "same" Crean back, I would be fine with it. Is he still as hungry? Can he still recruit? Will he drive 4ever crazy? Yes to all three and I'd go for it.
Does he sleep in his office ;-)
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I've thought TC for some time now. He seems to speak fondly of his days at MU. Often seen at the TBT games cheering for his guys. Showed up for the MU anniversary a couple years back. I always wondered if he regretted the "It's Indiana" move, knowing that at the time, it was a blue blood job and he would have regretted turning it down.
Having said all that, while I think he's a good recruiter, I thought his in game coaching was suspect. Run around the perimeter for 20 seconds then force a shot. Very little after a timeout. Also watched Bo pound him twice a year with inferior talent.
I do recall a significant portion of the contributing alumni base didn't seem to mind when he left.
I wouldn't be shocked.
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Maybe he'd actually pay his promised donation to the soccer stadium
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This article details the terms of Creans 6 year $20 million contract at Georgia. He is making some good coin there and there is still a large buyout in place.
Crean is also loading up on Jucos.
https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Georgia-Bulldogs-Details-of-Tom-Creans-first-UGA-contract-119951637/
https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Season/2020-Basketball/Commits/
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5$ is getting his wish.
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TC - ugh, no. It's like being with the uglier of the ugly step sisters (Wojo) and thinking the other one is a step up.
I was a student during the TC era. Going to the FF was awesome. But he was never a good coach. With a good coach we would have won the NC in '04.
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While I do not have statistics to back it up, it is my impression that former assistants who have gone off on their own at smaller schools and done well fare better at major programs than assistants like Wojo who go straight to a big job. (Crean was an exception.) There seems to be a lot of value in learning to work your own program at a lower level. Jay Wight is the best example I can think of though there are many others. Even Majerus failed at MU but then went to Ball St. and followed that with a great run at Utah. Who knows? Wojo may one day become a good coach after dropping down a level and then returning to a high major. But, I do not believe we can afford the risk of hiring another assistant. I think we have to find a guy who has run their own program. I also think we may ha face the fact that the MU job is not as attractive as it once was - thanks to Wojo. So, who are the coaches at smaller schools that we can realistically get - and who might actually want the job? Moser is certainly on the list of candidates, though he has a pretty damned good thing at Loyola and might be hired to pry away. The guy at Drake has to be on the list as does the guy at UNLV. Maybe the guy at Northern Iowa. Who else is a realistic candidate? Greg Marshall might be a possibility but I doubt MU would look at him now.
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This article details the terms of Creans 6 year $20 million contract at Georgia. He is making some good coin there and there is still a large buyout in place.
It wouldn't surprise me if he has an out clause for Marquette. I really think he has a soft spot and belief he could recapture what he had here.
We could do worse than Crean. No one would be better at selling the Wade era than Wade's coach. I'm sure we'd see guys like Wade, Diener, and others reconnect to the program. While I do think he hit his ceiling here, I could see him returning to that level, and a ceiling of competing for Big East titles with Final Four aspirations feels pretty nice considering where we are right now.
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With a good coach we would have won the NC in '04.
So wait ... it's your contention that the team that lost Wade and Jackson from the previous year's FF squad would have won the 2004 national title with some other coach?
OK then ... please pass the 'shrooms!
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I didn't watch one second of today's Loyola-Drake rematch because I was busy watching our fine game. I did just read a couple of articles about the game, a 51-50 OT victory for Drake.
So ... Moser's team lost to a team that was inferior (according to most Scoopers who had commented during the first one), managed only 50 points even though it went into OT, blew a double-digit lead, and lost to a team that was missing its best player? And afterward, there was nearly a brawl, with Moser blaming Drake's coaches and players?
Fun!
They beat Drake by 27 points the day before. Also, a Quad 1 single-point loss in OT isn't really a big deal.
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They beat Drake by 27 points the day before. Also, a Quad 1 single-point loss in OT isn't really a big deal.
Agreed. I was just getting a tiny bit uncomfortable with the degree of Moser worship by some. He's had a good run in a non-P6 conference the last few years after a long, mediocre career u until then. That doesn't mean he can't be a good P6 coach if that's what he wants for himself. It means we don't know. I don't understand how some here can project certain success for him.
If MU hires Moser, as an alum and fan I'll get behind him and give him the same kind of chance I gave Wojo - which was a long freakin' chance, as I was one of the more patient ProJos on Scoop. I'd hope we could do better, but I'm realistic enough to know that we probably will get another Moser or Crean type coach, as that's all we've gotten for decades and decades (including Al).
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Jesus people, MU is not hiring Crean back
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I've floated it as before and nobody seemed to notice but look at the coach of LA Tech. Great records since taking over, WI connections, has put a player in the NBA. Worth a look
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Jesus people, MU is not hiring Crean back
Yeah, but it sure is entertaining.
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FWIW, the Coaching Changes Twitter account (run by a number of anonymous assistant D1 coaches over the years, and has been very accurate in predicting hirings/firings) is not only predicting Wojo gone in a few weeks but that TC is definitely in play as a new hire.
I would not be shocked at all by a homecoming.
Oh dear god i was kidding the other day saying i wonder if both sides would be desperate enough. this should be fun (not)
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We could do worse than Crean.
83-128 conference record for good ole Tanned Tommy at Indiana & Georgia
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83-128 conference record for good ole Tanned Tommy at Indiana & Georgia
Considering what a trainwreck he walked into at Indiana and the 8-46 record in his first three years there, that's really not that bad.
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Considering what a trainwreck he walked into at Indiana and the 8-46 record in his first three years there, that's really not that bad.
our fan base is crawling back to tanned tom - this is officially rock bottom folks
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Considering what a trainwreck he walked into at Indiana and the 8-46 record in his first three years there, that's really not that bad.
19-48 in last 4 seasons. pretty damn good
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I am not sold on Moser as many are. I don't have much of a connection in basketball circles, but I do not have a ton of good feedback about Moser overall from those people. Most also seem to think that he wants to stay a big fish in a small pond.
I think Oats is the best hire out of all proposed, but it is gonna take a lot for us to sway that. It'd be interesting to know if he has a homecoming clause in his contract. Also could get some good marketing content with all the puns on Oats. We have the facilities, the budget, and the infrastructure. He'd be the fastest path forward to relevance again. Just seems unlikely he will actually leave--or whether Alabama is messing with his happy.
TJO is a wildcard, but I always thought he'd have a bigger gig by now. He can scheme well based on the Iowa State days where he did most of the scout team stuff and we know he can recruit pretty well. I just don't think you see quick success like an Oats.
DeVries is still early in the phases, but the guy can scheme well. When they lost Nick Norton, he actually went on a decent run in the MVC by changing the pace and focus. Decent recruiter, including Justin Patton for Creighton. I think he's the "new but unproven" talent I'd give a shot to.
Either way, we need a new coach for next year. And Crean sucks.
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our fan base is crawling back to tanned tom - this is officially rock bottom folks
He's not my first choice, but he's far from my last. He would be a significant improvement over our current coach, and I've little doubt he'd be doing better with this same roster if he were here now.
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Jesus people, MU is not hiring Crean back
Excellent usage of Jesus and Crean in the same sentence!
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Any y'all have a feel whether Woj or his assistants read this site? Man, we got this sucker dead and buried already, aina?
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He's not my first choice, but he's far from my last. He would be a significant improvement over our current coach, and I've little doubt he'd be doing better with this same roster if he were here now.
Based on the Crean victory decision tree we still would have lost yesterday. Our star player did not score. No random player stepped up to score. So we would have stayed with option C (Chug diet coke)
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Any y'all have feel whether Woj or his assistants read this site? Man, we got his sucker dead and buried already, aina?
Gainey follows it. Maybe he's the leak !
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Based on the Crean victory decision tree we still would have lost yesterday. Our star player did not score. No random player stepped up to score. So we would have stayed with option C (Chug diet coke)
Diet Pepsi ai na
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Breaking:
Boston College just canned their coach.
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Starting to get my hopes up. I think Wojo would have some interest in BC. Back in the ACC. Closer to home.
BC getting a coach that’s had a tournament team 3 out of 4 years and then had a rough year during Covid is something to sell in a press conference. It’s a much better resume than their last coach.
https://twitter.com/bsnow247/status/1361363038406914055?s=21
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Dad's, I agree with your premise that it would be difficult to replace Wojo this year. I also think Wojo wasn't on the hot seat before the season began so it is doubtful that Lovell, Scholl and Co. have lost THAT much faith in him that they want to let him go. So IMO I think you are correct that Wojo is here next year.
But here's the problem. They are going to have to spend this money soon. This isn't working and they have to see that. Furthermore they almost have to extend him. I mean, maybe not but then you may as well fire him right?
And I think MU needs to realize that next year could get real ugly PR wise. Their prospects for success don't look great. They will likely bleed a bunch of season ticket holder next year, and likely more the year after. A successful basketball program is a key to MU getting out of the financial situation they are in. But having faith that Wojo is that guy seems quite foolish.
This is the best take in this thread. I agree infinity percent on all of this.
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Breaking:
Boston College just canned their coach.
Impossible. Jesuit schools with nice guys can’t afford buyouts due to financial limitations.
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Brian Snow “buyouts are not an issue right now.”
Please pin this to anyone that continues to say MU can’t afford to fire Wojo in a few weeks. Was an uninformed take then, just as it is right now.
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Brian Snow “buyouts are not an issue right now.”
Please pin this to anyone that continues to say MU can’t afford to fire Wojo in a few weeks. Was an uninformed take then, just as it is right now.
Not every school’s situation is the same.
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Breaking:
Boston College just canned their coach.
(https://i.imgur.com/7drHiqr.gif)
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Agreed. I was just getting a tiny bit uncomfortable with the degree of Moser worship by some. He's had a good run in a non-P6 conference the last few years after a long, mediocre career u until then. That doesn't mean he can't be a good P6 coach if that's what he wants for himself. It means we don't know. I don't understand how some here can project certain success for him.
If MU hires Moser, as an alum and fan I'll get behind him and give him the same kind of chance I gave Wojo - which was a long freakin' chance, as I was one of the more patient ProJos on Scoop. I'd hope we could do better, but I'm realistic enough to know that we probably will get another Moser or Crean type coach, as that's all we've gotten for decades and decades (including Al).
Fair points, agreed.
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Impossible. Jesuit schools with nice guys can’t afford buyouts due to financial limitations.
BC has a $2.4 billion endowment.
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Starting to get my hopes up. I think Wojo would have some interest in BC. Back in the ACC. Closer to home.
BC getting a coach that’s had a tournament team 3 out of 4 years and then had a rough year during Covid is something to sell in a press conference. It’s a much better resume than their last coach.
https://twitter.com/bsnow247/status/1361363038406914055?s=21
Wojo will be back on dukes bench or at a low major. No P6 wants our trash
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Jeff Borzello: Names that have been floating around for Boston College the last few weeks: Porter Moser, Howard Eisley, John Beilein, Mark Schmidt, Mike Rhoades, Randy Bennett.
https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1361363586426232834?s=21
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Jeff Borzello: Names that have been floating around for Boston College the last few weeks: Porter Moser, Howard Eisley, John Beilein, Mark Schmidt, Mike Rhoades, Randy Bennett.
https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1361363586426232834?s=21
Dat's cuz they didn't know Wojo would be available!
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I think Christian was in the $1.4 million range. Beilein? C'mon.
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Man, I could actually see Moser leaving for that job. I guess that’s okay, though? I don’t really think I want him as Marquette’s next coach, though I’d be open-minded if he was.
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Jeff Borzello: Names that have been floating around for Boston College the last few weeks: Porter Moser, Howard Eisley, John Beilein, Mark Schmidt, Mike Rhoades, Randy Bennett.
https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1361363586426232834?s=21
Moser - maybe
Eisley - I’d bet the house on that
Beilein - lol
Schmidt - intriguing
Rhoads- can do better
Bennett - about the same chance of them rehiring Christian
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Guys, names that come out the day of a firing are simply from the head of the writer to get content on a page. It rarely means anything.
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I did not know Dennis Gates is married to the #2 person at BC Athletics. This could get interesting:
https://www.womenleadersincollegesports.org/convention/women-leaders-x/Awards/jocelyn-gates.aspx
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I did not know Dennis Gates is married to the #2 person at BC Athletics. This could get interesting:
https://www.womenleadersincollegesports.org/convention/women-leaders-x/Awards/jocelyn-gates.aspx
How? I mean there's no way they're commuting to their jobs from a middle spot and both those seem like onsite time consuming jobs where you don't get away often
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I did not know Dennis Gates is married to the #2 person at BC Athletics. This could get interesting:
https://www.womenleadersincollegesports.org/convention/women-leaders-x/Awards/jocelyn-gates.aspx
Interesting. Dennis Gates would be a under the radar guy at MU who could succeed. BC will have some nice options
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How? I mean there's no way they're commuting to their jobs from a middle spot and both those seem like onsite time consuming jobs where you don't get away often
Married couples don't have to live together.
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Impossible. Jesuit schools with nice guys can’t afford buyouts due to financial limitations.
Christian's buyout is not Wojo's buyout and BC's financial situation is not MU's financial situation. It's an Apples to Platypuses comparison.
That being said, this losing streak may have pissed off enough of the right people to make a change possible.
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Jeff Borzello: Names that have been floating around for Boston College the last few weeks: Porter Moser, Howard Eisley, John Beilein, Mark Schmidt, Mike Rhoades, Randy Bennett.
https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1361363586426232834?s=21
This is all great news for Marquette from a number of angles. We will get to see if Wojo's name is added. If so, we know that at least he is still marketable for a P6 job. If not, (not so great for MU) we know we will probably need to find some fat cat donors to help with the buyout. We learn who is interested in the job and who declines an interview. What's not to like about this chance to see the coaching market before we need to act? Lots of valuable info before the season ends. It's our chance to use the info to avoid another year of Wojo.
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Married couples don't have to live together.
::) thank you for the lesson, I think I've said on here before my parents don't and are still married so i never would have guessed that.
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::) thank you for the lesson, I think I've said on here before my parents don't and are still married so i never would have guessed that.
It would have been best had my parents not lived together either.
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Brian Snow “buyouts are not an issue right now.”
Also, it does not appear BC was especially concerned that firing a coach before the end of the season would turn off any candidates for their job.
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It would have been best had my parents not lived together either.
Well without derailing this into our home lives thread. Basically I read your initial post as being a foot in the door for the Gates. It then made me think "how could that be if they're happily married and work such rigorous very far apart jobs" hence my post. If your initial post was that one of the top names could be interviewing with someone he's separated from that's my bad.
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Well without derailing this into our home lives thread. Basically I read your initial post as being a foot in the door for the Gates. It then made me think "how could that be if they're happily married and work such rigorous very far apart jobs" hence my post. If your initial post was that one of the top names could be interviewing with someone he's separated from that's my bad.
Looks like they never have lived together.
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Well without derailing this into our home lives thread. Basically I read your initial post as being a foot in the door for the Gates. It then made me think "how could that be if they're happily married and work such rigorous very far apart jobs" hence my post. If your initial post was that one of the top names could be interviewing with someone he's separated from that's my bad.
I was joking around regarding my parents.
But, the fact Gates’ wife is the #2 at BC definitely puts him near the top of the list.
Also, married professionals living apart due to their jobs isn’t uncommon. Coaches in particular. You go where opportunities present themselves and the money is good enough you can afford two homes.
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Starting to get my hopes up. I think Wojo would have some interest in BC. Back in the ACC. Closer to home.
BC getting a coach that’s had a tournament team 3 out of 4 years and then had a rough year during Covid is something to sell in a press conference. It’s a much better resume than their last coach.
https://twitter.com/bsnow247/status/1361363038406914055?s=21
give BC credit for being smarter than to hire Woj.
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The rumors are that Howard Eisley will in all likelihood be the next BC coach.
BC player and star. 12 years as an NBA player, 10 years as an NBA assistant coach and currently an assistant on Howard's Michigan team.
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The rumors are that Howard Eisley will in all likelihood be the next BC coach.
BC player and star. 12 years as an NBA player, 10 years as an NBA assistant coach and currently an assistant on Howard's Michigan team.
This is a good opportunity to discuss how Juwan Howard put his staff together at Michigan, and the various strengths of Howard and his assistants.
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This is a good opportunity to discuss how Juwan Howard put his staff together at Michigan, and the various strengths of Howard and his assistants.
Phil Martelli is his X’s and O’s guy, Saddi Washington was a holdover from the previous staff and Howard Eisley came with him from the NBA. Eisley is from Detroit originally. Martelli and Washington are a good mix. Martelli has the long expereince and Washington had a connection to the players on the roster when Howard took over and probably contacts with potential recruits.
Howard’s acumen as a coach shouldn’t get dismissed. I see this a lot but he paid his dues in the NBA. His name got floated for jobs in the Association. He’s a legit dude, not just a famous alum.
Here’s a nice breakdown of some of his stuff on offense:
https://mgoblog.com/content/coach%27s-clipboard-pistol-action#read-more
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Phil Martelli is his X’s and O’s guy, Saddi Washington was a holdover from the previous staff and Howard Eisley came with him from the NBA. Eisley is from Detroit originally. Martelli and Washington are a good mix. Martelli has the long expereince and Washington had a connection to the players on the roster when Howard took over and probably contacts with potential recruits.
Howard’s acumen as a coach shouldn’t get dismissed. I see this a lot but he paid his dues in the NBA. His name got floated for jobs in the Association. He’s a legit dude, not just a famous alum.
Here’s a nice breakdown of some of his stuff on offense:
https://mgoblog.com/content/coach%27s-clipboard-pistol-action#read-more
Yep, and Eisley handles guard development, especially point guards, etc...Washington front court players, both can recruit etc.... combining a good range of staff to cover different things, both new and holdover. It has gone well for them to this point. Howard clearly hired a variety of coaches with different skill sets to compliment his own.
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Great post, Rico.
Howard's coaching is underrated. Immediately, it was, "Oh, he's just another NBA guy." But he's a smart guy who played under great coaches and had a chance to do a lot of observing at the end of his career. And as you and others said, he assembled a great group of coaches.
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Great post, Rico.
Howard's coaching is underrated. Immediately, it was, "Oh, he's just another NBA guy." But he's a smart guy who played under great coaches and had a chance to do a lot of observing at the end of his career. And as you and others said, he assembled a great group of coaches.
Not only was he an assistant, but in Miami working with two fantastic basketball minds in Riley and Spoelstra. Consistency and continuity in his NBA coaching experience.
Back to BC, I get that it’s normal speculation and often agents floating names to get raises and buzz, but Randy Bennett for the BC job is hysterical. Nearly 60, spent all of his career west of the Mississippi, all but 3 years on the West Coast, and all but 5 years of a 35 year career in Cali, but sure, he’ll leave a high 6 figure salary and basically a job for life for one of the toughest P6 gigs across the country. I’d buy it if it was ASU Or even Oregon State, but BC? Lol
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Not only was he an assistant, but in Miami working with two fantastic basketball minds in Riley and Spoelstra. Consistency and continuity in his NBA coaching experience.
Back to BC, I get that it’s normal speculation and often agents floating names to get raises and buzz, but Randy Bennett for the BC job is hysterical. Nearly 60, spent all of his career west of the Mississippi, all but 3 years on the West Coast, and all but 5 years of a 35 year career in Cali, but sure, he’ll leave a high 6 figure salary and basically a job for life for one of the toughest P6 gigs across the country. I’d buy it if it was ASU Or even Oregon State, but BC? Lol
He’s angling for a raise
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Not only was he an assistant, but in Miami working with two fantastic basketball minds in Riley and Spoelstra. Consistency and continuity in his NBA coaching experience.
Back to BC, I get that it’s normal speculation and often agents floating names to get raises and buzz, but Randy Bennett for the BC job is hysterical. Nearly 60, spent all of his career west of the Mississippi, all but 3 years on the West Coast, and all but 5 years of a 35 year career in Cali, but sure, he’ll leave a high 6 figure salary and basically a job for life for one of the toughest P6 gigs across the country. I’d buy it if it was ASU Or even Oregon State, but BC? Lol
Former Lorenzo Romar assistant at Pepperdine and SLU.
19 Completed Seasons at St. Mary's.
14 times in the last 17 years his teams finished either 1st or 2nd in the WCC. (The other three were 3rd twice and 4th)
7 NCAA teams not including a canceled post season.
13 straight NCAA or NIT appearances
Life is pretty good in Moraga, CA.
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Apparently we don't want Izzo or K. I just found out today they both stink.
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Phil Martelli is his X’s and O’s guy, Saddi Washington was a holdover from the previous staff and Howard Eisley came with him from the NBA. Eisley is from Detroit originally. Martelli and Washington are a good mix. Martelli has the long expereince and Washington had a connection to the players on the roster when Howard took over and probably contacts with potential recruits.
This separates Wojo from Howard. Howard recognized his shortcomings and limitations as a coach and hired to address that. Wojo hired buddies he could also play noon ball with (well except Stan, a mix of Wooden, Al, Phil Jackson and Red Auerbach all in one). Maybe tell him hire a top flight X’s and O’s assistant to sit behind him. A former head coach like Martelli.
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This separates Wojo from Howard. Howard recognized his shortcomings and limitations as a coach and hired to address that. Wojo hired buddies he could also play noon ball with (well except Stan, a mix of Wooden, Al, Phil Jackson and Red Auerbach all in one). Maybe tell him hire a top flight X’s and O’s assistant to sit behind him. A former head coach like Martelli.
He’s had Rob Judson on the staff for awhile. But I agree with your point. Rehiring Gainey and promoting Presuti make me believe he’s having a hard time getting assistants to buy in.
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He’s had Rob Judson on the staff for awhile. But I agree with your point. Rehiring Gainey and promoting Presuti make me believe he’s having a hard time getting assistants to buy in.
Judson is still there. But agreed with the general thought process of Howard's staff. Martelli is the X's & O's guy, but maybe more important the guy who can teach Howard how to navigate administration & boosters. Washington is the bridge to the roster that was there to retain talent & give him a proven recruiter. And Eisley is the pro coach with the experience and know-how to convince players Michigan can get them to the next level. It's one of the savviest staff makeups I can remember.
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He’s had Rob Judson on the staff for awhile. But I agree with your point. Rehiring Gainey and promoting Presuti make me believe he’s having a hard time getting assistants to buy in.
Contrarily, maybe Wojo is settling for guys he knows. Often better to have a new voice and be challenged.
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Judson is still there. But agreed with the general thought process of Howard's staff. Martelli is the X's & O's guy, but maybe more important the guy who can teach Howard how to navigate administration & boosters. Washington is the bridge to the roster that was there to retain talent & give him a proven recruiter. And Eisley is the pro coach with the experience and know-how to convince players Michigan can get them to the next level. It's one of the savviest staff makeups I can remember.
But just cause a guy was a HC for awhile doesn’t mean they are an effective experienced assistant/X and O guy for a young coach. Buzz had Wainwright for awhile. His ending at DePaul was unimpressive but he was a successful coach for a long time. Same with Martelli. Judson is just a career assistant who was thoroughly mediocre as a HC at NIU. He’s coached under some solid coaches but he’s not the kind of guy to make a huge difference in growing as a HC or with an otherwise inexperienced staff.
Either way, at this point, I’m not much for giving Wojo the benefit of the doubt on program running or staff building
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How many former successful head coaches are out there waiting for a call to be an assistant coach? And which ones are the guys Wojo should target this offseason to bring aboard?
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How many former successful head coaches are out there waiting for a call to be an assistant coach? And which ones are the guys Wojo should target this offseason to bring aboard?
Does anyone really think Wojo would bring in a more proven coach than himself to provide guidance? If we were going to see that move, it would've been when Brett or Stan left. That he's filling those spots with people he already had control over and mediocre success with indicates he doesn't think he needs that Martelli type influence. If he needs to replace someone, it will be with Danny Mads, Cam, or someone else Wojo already knows and falls in line.
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Does anyone really think Wojo would bring in a more proven coach than himself to provide guidance? If we were going to see that move, it would've been when Brett or Stan left. That he's filling those spots with people he already had control over and mediocre success with indicates he doesn't think he needs that Martelli type influence. If he needs to replace someone, it will be with Danny Mads, Cam, or someone else Wojo already knows and falls in line.
That wasn't the question. Who are the candidates?
We talk like these guys are just hanging around waiting for a call. Like all Wojo needs to do is pick up the phone and Beilein or Matta (or both!) would be on their way to Milwaukee to work for Wojo, but Wojo's ego is the issue. It's just not the case.
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That wasn't the question. Who are the candidates?
We talk like these guys are just hanging around waiting for a call. Like all Wojo needs to do is pick up the phone and Beilein or Matta (or both!) would be on their way to Milwaukee to work for Wojo, but Wojo's ego is the issue. It's just not the case.
KO, Mike Deane, Steve Lavin.
The problem: Wojo is a Duke system guy. Pretty stridently. It's no different than Gard's staff at UW or the Butler legacy of coaches we often admire in their ability to plug and play with the next guy. Wojo doesn't want X & Os but guys who know the nuances of this system.
Any of the above coaches would be bad fits as a result, btw.
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When Wojo was hired, the biggest assistant hire, IMO, was Mark Phelps. He was a former head coach at Drake, had experience at NC State, Arizona State and Missouri. Carrawell was a Wojo connection from Duke, and Nelson was an assistant under Phelps at Drake. When Phelps left after a year to Arizona, Wojo replaced him with Stan, who is arguably universally admired by fans and players alike, but that head coaching experience was not replaced.
Carrawell replaced Jeff Capel at Duke. Nelson went to Holy Cross. Stan went to LMU.
Killings replaced Carrawell. Jake replaced Nelson. Justin replaced Stan.
For whatever reason, external candidates were not pursued.
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KO, Mike Deane, Steve Lavin.
Teal?
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That wasn't the question. Who are the candidates?
We talk like these guys are just hanging around waiting for a call. Like all Wojo needs to do is pick up the phone and Beilein or Matta (or both!) would be on their way to Milwaukee to work for Wojo, but Wojo's ego is the issue. It's just not the case.
I know you’re being a snarky contrarian douche per usual, but nobody is suggesting a top tier coach as an assistant. Major programs are littered with fairly solid former HCs as assistants. Todd Lickliter was at Evansville before he got promoted. A guy like Ray McCallum is at Tulane as an assistant. Ewing has Louis Orr on staff. A guy like Steve Hawkins was just let go at Western Michigan after a fairly successful run. Saul Phillips is a D2 coach now. A top assistant gig at somewhere like MU would be a significant pay raise and set him back on track to be a D1 HC again. It’s not hard at all to list.
Nobody is asking for a former very successful P6 coach. But there are tons of guys out there who were good coaches at lower levels, winning without star players and running programs, who could help Wojo greatly.
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I know you’re being a snarky contrarian douche per usual, but nobody is suggesting a top tier coach as an assistant. Major programs are littered with fairly solid former HCs as assistants. Todd Lickliter was at Evansville before he got promoted. A guy like Ray McCallum is at Tulane as an assistant. Ewing has Louis Orr on staff. A guy like Steve Hawkins was just let go at Western Michigan after a fairly successful run. Saul Phillips is a D2 coach now. A top assistant gig at somewhere like MU would be a significant pay raise and set him back on track to be a D1 HC again. It’s not hard at all to list.
Nobody is asking for a former very successful P6 coach. But there are tons of guys out there who were good coaches at lower levels, winning without star players and running programs, who could help Wojo greatly.
So like Phelps or like Judson?
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Teal?
If you have to ask... ;)
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So like Phelps or like Judson?
No cause Judson was a bad coach who then was a DOBO 30+ years into his coaching career. Phelps was also not a good HC who was with Wojo for a season before bolting. Combined 42% conference winning percentages helping out are probably why Wojo is progressing the way he is. If you think either of them were “fairly solid HCs”, then you deserve Wojo
If I’m a new Sales Director looking to hire an experienced sales manager to assist me and help me learn the ropes, I don’t just want someone who was a director elsewhere and got unceremoniously canned. It would be nice to have a guy who at least hit his sales numbers a few years during his tenure.
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No cause Judson was a bad coach who then was a DOBO 30+ years into his coaching career. Phelps was also not a good HC who was with Wojo for a season before bolting. Combined 42% conference winning percentages helping out are probably why Wojo is progressing the way he is. If you think either of them were “fairly solid HCs”, then you deserve Wojo
If I’m a new Sales Director looking to hire an experienced sales manager to assist me and help me learn the ropes, I don’t just want someone who was a director elsewhere and got unceremoniously canned. It would be nice to have a guy who at least hit his sales numbers a few years during his tenure.
So in this analogy our next coach should hire Wojo as his assistant because Wojo hit his numbers a few years.
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KO, Mike Deane, Steve Lavin.
The problem: Wojo is a Duke system guy. Pretty stridently. It's no different than Gard's staff at UW or the Butler legacy of coaches we often admire in their ability to plug and play with the next guy. Wojo doesn't want X & Os but guys who know the nuances of this system.
Any of the above coaches would be bad fits as a result, btw.
Lavin hired X’s and O’s guys because it was his weakness and he knew it. Dunlap then Whitsell on the bench as his #1, and he had Keady as a consultant.
One doesn’t have to be an eminently successful HC but the need to be someone who can make up for Wojo’s weaknesses a d challenge him, not be a yes man or sidekick.
Judson is limited in not being a countable coach. He can’t communicate with players.
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If Wojo gets retained I'd like to see him bring in Bruce Weber as an AC. I think Weber gets the axe this season. I could see him spending some time back home before looking for his next job.
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So in this analogy our next coach should hire Wojo as his assistant because Wojo hit his numbers a few years.
He’s 44, coached in 2 places, I wouldn’t consider him an experienced guy in light of what we were saying about other “experienced” coaches. And at a major program, I’d argue he didn’t. No tourney wins, no conference titles, and a sub .500 conference record.
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He’s 44, coached in 2 places, I wouldn’t consider him an experienced guy in light of what we were saying about other “experienced” coaches. And at a major program, I’d argue he didn’t. No tourney wins, no conference titles, and a sub .500 conference record.
I was just playing around.
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If Wojo gets retained I'd like to see him bring in Bruce Weber as an AC. I think Weber gets the axe this season. I could see him spending some time back home before looking for his next job.
This is really a good thought.
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A few programs have gone to having offensive and defensive coordinators (Alabama, Purdue, Yaklich when he was at Michigan). Game is way to complicated to be an expert on both ends.
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If Wojo gets retained I'd like to see him bring in Bruce Weber as an AC. I think Weber gets the axe this season. I could see him spending some time back home before looking for his next job.
That would be outstanding.
Hoping it can't happen because Wojo isn't retained. But maybe the next coach would bring in Weber if he becomes available and he's willing to chill for a year or 3.
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If you have to ask... ;)
Well done.
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If Wojo gets retained I'd like to see him bring in Bruce Weber as an AC. I think Weber gets the axe this season. I could see him spending some time back home before looking for his next job.
If Wojo is retained he will most certainly be on the hot seat entering the season. If he does come back and has a poor year again...one would have to assume that he would be gone. If I'm freshly out of work (your Weber axe prediction), I think I would look for something a little more stable that the strong possibility of a one year stint.
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If Wojo is retained he will most certainly be on the hot seat entering the season. If he does come back and has a poor year again...one would have to assume that he would be gone. If I'm freshly out of work (your Weber axe prediction), I think I would look for something a little more stable that the strong possibility of a one year stint.
Actually, it might be an even more attractive option. Weber could think it gives him the inside track to replace Wojo.
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Actually, it might be an even more attractive option. Weber could think it gives him the inside track to replace Wojo.
Oh god no. Unless he's somehow going back to his first two Illinois years and last year at SIU I don't want him. A fluke Elite 8 run around a lot of blah at UofI and KSU doesn't interest me.
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Oh god no. Unless he's somehow going back to his first two Illinois years and last year at SIU I don't want him. A fluke Elite 8 run around a lot of blah at UofI and KSU doesn't interest me.
He wasn't saying he wanted Weber. He was just explaining how it could be an attractive option for a coach like that. And I agree.
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He wasn't saying he wanted Weber. He was just explaining how it could be an attractive option for a coach like that. And I agree.
You're right just reread it and I misinterpreted the post.
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If Wojo is retained he will most certainly be on the hot seat entering the season. If he does come back and has a poor year again...one would have to assume that he would be gone. If I'm freshly out of work (your Weber axe prediction), I think I would look for something a little more stable that the strong possibility of a one year stint.
It’s a bad position we’re in now. I think you can replace “poor” with “great” above and the statement is still correct. If Wojo has any sliver of success from now on, he’s gone anyway IMO.
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If Wojo gets retained I'd like to see him bring in Bruce Weber as an AC. I think Weber gets the axe this season. I could see him spending some time back home before looking for his next job.
bad coach (Wojo) taking advice from a marginally successful...at best, coach (Weber)?
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He gone, hey?
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bad coach (Wojo) taking advice from a marginally successful...at best, coach (Weber)?
15 postseasons, 15-13 NCAA tournament record, Runner up, E8 and three S16s
That's better than Crean and Buzz combined at Marquette. I mean he's certainly lost his mojo but he's an above average coach looking at his record as a whole.
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bad coach (Wojo) taking advice from a marginally successful...at best, coach (Weber)?
Weber can coach. He can't consistently recruit.
Not to mention we are going to talk about Phil Martelli as if he is God's gift to Michigan, but Bruce Weber isn't good enough to be an assistant for Wojo at Marquette???
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bad coach (Wojo) taking advice from a marginally successful...at best, coach (Weber)?
Weber is known as an exceptional in game coach but terrible recruiter. According to Scoop Wojo is a solid recruiter but needs help with the Xs and Os. Seems to be a possible match.
I still think the best course is hiring a new coach, but if Wojo is retained, I think Weber would be a good AC add.
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15 postseasons, 15-13 NCAA tournament record, Runner up, E8 and three S16s
That's better than Crean and Buzz combined at Marquette. I mean he's certainly lost his mojo but he's an above average coach looking at his record as a whole.
Agreed, like Fluffy said, his issue has always been recruiting. People are quick to downplay his early Illinois years cause he had Self’s players, but he did a really nice job at SIU, had some decent years at U of I, and had KSU doing well before he’s ran out of gas. Zero interest as a HC but exactly the kind of seasoned Xs and Os mind that would be great on the bench
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Bruce would be great. If he wants to come back to Milwaukee and help Wojo out, he should make it happen.
He could also just decide that he's 64 years old and has made plenty of money so he can settle into retirement, or can probably get some sort of color analyst or in studio analyst job somewhere for a couple years before retirement.
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Folks here assume Weber wouldn't be able to get another decent D1 job if he wanted one.
Illini fans ran him out of Champaign, using pitchforks and screaming expletives in his wake ... and he immediately landed a plum job at K-State.
The last couple years have been bad there for him, but he could spin his overall body of work pretty nicely.
I have no idea if he still wants to be a head coach ... or any kind of coach ... or a talking head ... or just wants to chillax.
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Folks here assume Weber wouldn't be able to get another decent D1 job if he wanted one.
Illini fans ran him out of Champaign, using pitchforks and screaming expletives in his wake ... and he immediately landed a plum job at K-State.
The last couple years have been bad there for him, but he could spin his overall body of work pretty nicely.
I have no idea if he still wants to be a head coach ... or any kind of coach ... or a talking head ... or just wants to chillax.
Decent? If he gets canned at K-State, what decent program is hiring a 65 year-old, twice-fired coach and trying to sell that?
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Decent? If he gets canned at K-State, what decent program is hiring a 65 year-old, twice-fired coach and trying to sell that?
Besides SIU? Nobody.
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Folks here assume Weber wouldn't be able to get another decent D1 job if he wanted one.
Illini fans ran him out of Champaign, using pitchforks and screaming expletives in his wake ... and he immediately landed a plum job at K-State.
Is K State that plum of a job? Before Martin/Weber, K State hadn’t been ranked in 20+ years. Manhattan is a cowtown and they are pretty far down the prestige pecking order in the B12. Once Kruger left it was kind of mehhh. Even Altman wasn’t all that great there.
So as Rico and Billy said, twice fired, older coach, just fired from lower tier P6 gig. Not sure Weber wants to go back to a low budget, mid major gig after spending the last 20 years at bigger programs. Not like he would be expected to carry the recruiting burden if he joins the bench at another P6 school
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Is K State that plum of a job? Before Martin/Weber, K State hadn’t been ranked in 20+ years. Manhattan is a cowtown and they are pretty far down the prestige pecking order in the B12. Once Kruger left it was kind of mehhh. Even Altman wasn’t all that great there.
So as Rico and Billy said, twice fired, older coach, just fired from lower tier P6 gig. Not sure Weber wants to go back to a low budget, mid major gig after spending the last 20 years at bigger programs. Not like he would be expected to carry the recruiting burden if he joins the bench at another P6 school
I'm not saying Weber would get a P6 job. I said he could get a "decent D1 job if he wanted one." Maybe he loves being a head coach so much that he'd go to the MVC or MAC or A-10. Or maybe he wouldn't want a job there. But those are "decent D1 jobs."
Or maybe I'm wrong and he's kryptonite and no school, not even at the lowest level, would touch him. Though I doubt it.
As for K-State, "before Martin/Weber" was 15 years ago. That's a pretty long run of some good basketball. And Bob Huggins was there the year before that and rebuilt the program quickly but bolted after one year for his alma mater.
But back to the point ... sure, somebody like Weber would be great to bring to MU as an assistant if that was something he'd really like to do. And not just Wojo if he stays. Maybe if Wojo is fired, the new coach would benefit from an old hand like Weber, too.
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Let’s say Wojo brings in Weber. Somebody’s gotta go, right? Would it be Presutti? It seems like he’s taken over the Chris Carrawell “universally regarded as dead weight” assistant role.
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Why would Bruce Weber work for Wojo? There are millions of better opportunities for him than to be a subordinate to potentially the worst coach in the Big East.
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Why would Bruce Weber work for Wojo? There are millions of better opportunities for him than to be a subordinate to potentially the worst coach in the Big East.
He’s from the area. I believe he was interested when Wojo got hired. I don’t think it’s likely, but fun to speculate.
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He’s from the area. I believe he was interested when Wojo got hired. I don’t think it’s likely, but fun to speculate.
The thoughts that Wojo needs to bring in a more talented/experienced guy than Wojo-Dukiet are hilarious. Especially when the University allegedly cannot afford to can Wojo-Dukiet. Just cut bait and find the best available candidate instead of dancing around the inevitable.
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Weber is known as an exceptional in game coach but terrible recruiter. According to Scoop Wojo is a solid recruiter but needs help with the Xs and Os. Seems to be a possible match.
I still think the best course is hiring a new coach, but if Wojo is retained, I think Weber would be a good AC add.
...like Al and Hank lite.
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This is really a good thought.
No really its not.
For a school that is supposedly financially strapped, to bring in a high-priced assistant because the current coach isn’t cutting it is beyond idiotic. If they can afford to bring in Weber, they can afford to fire Wojo. What kind of business decision would that be? The guy we are paying top dollar for to coach the team isn’t cutting it, so instead of replacing him lets pay more money to bring in someone that can help him. What message does that send to Wojo and why would Weber want an unstable job unless he thought he could become head coach, and why would MU ever want that?
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No really its not.
For a school that is supposedly financially strapped, to bring in a high-priced assistant because the current coach isn’t cutting it is beyond idiotic. If they can afford to bring in Weber, they can afford to fire Wojo. What kind of business decision would that be? The guy we are paying top dollar for to coach the team isn’t cutting it, so instead of replacing him lets pay more money to bring in someone that can help him. What message does that send to Wojo and why would Weber want an unstable job unless he thought he could become head coach, and why would MU ever want that?
Bringing in a free agent Weber would be MUCH less expensive than firing Wojo.
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Bringing in a free agent Weber would be MUCH less expensive than firing Wojo.
Ok, If Wojo is not the guy, and money is the biggest issue for not firing him, then keep Wojo as a lame duck coach for a year and then fire him. Paying more money for an assistant coach to patch up Wojos shortcomings doesn’t save money either. The only reason to bring in someone like Weber would be because you think Wojo can’t get the job done. If you think that, then the answer is to fire Wojo.
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Biggest question:
Will Kansas State be able to afford Bruce Weber's buyout? It's going to be over $5 million, and he is to be paid $2.8 million next season and $2.9 million the next season. I keep reading that schools have major financial challenges in the present and the future, but that it does not affect all schools alike.
Maybe it is truly an apples to oranges comparison, no???
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Ok, If Wojo is not the guy, and money is the biggest issue for not firing him, then keep Wojo as a lame duck coach for a year and then fire him. Paying more money for an assistant coach to patch up Wojos shortcomings doesn’t save money either. The only reason to bring in someone like Weber would be because you think Wojo can’t get the job done. If you think that, then the answer is to fire Wojo.
No. One of the reasons that you bring in someone like Weber is that his strengths can offset Wojo's weaknesses. If you like 80% of what Wojo does, bringing in someone to help with the 20% he does poorly may be a better alternative than firing him, and hoping you find someone who does 100% well.
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No. One of the reasons that you bring in someone like Weber is that his strengths can offset Wojo's weaknesses. If you like 80% of what Wojo does, bringing in someone to help with the 20% he does poorly may be a better alternative than firing him, and hoping you find someone who does 100% well.
I understand that, but then Wojo should then take a pay cut for not being able to do his job effectively.
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I understand that, but then Wojo should then take a pay cut for not being able to do his job effectively.
That's not really how workplaces operate.
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That's not really how workplaces operate.
No. That's exactly how they operate. That is not how college and professional athletics operate.
In most workplaces, if someone is not doing the job they were hired to do, they are replaced or get a down grade in pay.
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No. That's exactly how they operate. That is not how college and professional athletics operate.
In most workplaces, if someone is not doing the job they were hired to do, they are replaced or get a down grade in pay.
No. A good boss knows what his weaknesses are and hires people to supplement those.
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Biggest question:
Will Kansas State be able to afford Bruce Weber's buyout? It's going to be over $5 million, and he is to be paid $2.8 million next season and $2.9 million the next season. I keep reading that schools have major financial challenges in the present and the future, but that it does not affect all schools alike.
Maybe it is truly an apples to oranges comparison, no???
Weber's buyout is significantly smaller than Wojos. Kansas State's financial situation is much better than Marquettes. Im sure you can recognize the differences between Marquette and a large state football school
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Ok, If Wojo is not the guy, and money is the biggest issue for not firing him, then keep Wojo as a lame duck coach for a year and then fire him. Paying more money for an assistant coach to patch up Wojos shortcomings doesn’t save money either. The only reason to bring in someone like Weber would be because you think Wojo can’t get the job done. If you think that, then the answer is to fire Wojo.
You are assuming that money will be the biggest issue. Maybe the administration doesn't want to fire him because they like him. Maybe they go to him and say, "How can we help you?" And maybe he says he'd like to hire somebody like Weber.
I know folks here are starting to assume Wojo will be fired. And maybe he will be. But I think a lot of us (including me at times) are letting what we want to happen take over our brains.
Going into this season, there was every indication that MU was quite happy with Wojo. We'll see if one horrific season will change that dramatically enough for them to want to fire him.
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Weber's buyout is significantly smaller than Wojos. Kansas State's financial situation is much better than Marquettes. Im sure you can recognize the differences between Marquette and a large state football school
Kansas State has a smaller endowment than Marquette, by over $180 million in fact, and, for a public land grant research university, only has 17k undergrad students. Wojo's buyout is $6 million; Weber's is $5.7 million. K-State's enrollment dropped this year. Marquette also outspends K-State in men's basketball by over $4 million annually.
Alas, I need to remember that financial concerns relating to paying a buyout are only exclusive to Marquette University, especially since there are already at least ten openings due to firings, with many more expected in coming weeks.
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We've really spent two pages on Bruce Weber as an assistant? (worse yet I've read all the posts.) I just started a thread on potential candidates for 2022-23 video coordinator.
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You are assuming that money will be the biggest issue. Maybe the administration doesn't want to fire him because they like him. Maybe they go to him and say, "How can we help you?" And maybe he says he'd like to hire somebody like Weber.
I know folks here are starting to assume Wojo will be fired. And maybe he will be. But I think a lot of us (including me at times) are letting what we want to happen take over our brains.
Going into this season, there was every indication that MU was quite happy with Wojo. We'll see if one horrific season will change that dramatically enough for them to want to fire him.
No my assumption is wojo needs to go and if so then why patch it up and prolong it.
One hoffiic season? That's not the issue l, it's the entire body of work.
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Kansas State has a smaller endowment than Marquette, by over $180 million in fact, and, for a public land grant research university, only has 17k undergrad students. Wojo's buyout is $6 million; Weber's is $5.7 million. K-State's enrollment dropped this year. Marquette also outspends K-State in men's basketball by over $4 million annually.
Alas, I need to remember that financial concerns relating to paying a buyout are only exclusive to Marquette University, especially since there are already at least ten openings due to firings, with many more expected in coming weeks.
Some of your numbers are incorrect. Surely you realize that endowment is just one piece of the financial puzzle and plays a smaller role at land grant institutions than liberal arts schools.
Marquette isn't the only one impacted but of P6 schools that may possibly fire their basketball coach this season they may be in the most dire situation.
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You are assuming that money will be the biggest issue. Maybe the administration doesn't want to fire him because they like him. Maybe they go to him and say, "How can we help you?" And maybe he says he'd like to hire somebody like Weber.
I know folks here are starting to assume Wojo will be fired. And maybe he will be. But I think a lot of us (including me at times) are letting what we want to happen take over our brains.
Going into this season, there was every indication that MU was quite happy with Wojo. We'll see if one horrific season will change that dramatically enough for them to want to fire him.
To be fair, and if the admin was paying attention at all, this is more than just one horrific season. This is the continuation of yet another late season implosion.
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To be fair, and if the admin was paying attention at all, this is more than just one horrific season. This is the continuation of yet another late season implosion.
I agree with you, and hairy too.
But if the honchos were happy with him going into this season - something many (most?) Scoopers were not - then to them it probably is one horrific season. During COVID. With injuries. Etc etc etc.
Excuses? Sure. And I don't like them. I think he should have been fired about a month ago. But it's pretty easy for people to justify whatever they want to justify.
We want him gone, and we're projecting that onto what the MU honchos "must" want. We'll see soon enough - perhaps as soon as a month from now.
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We've really spent two pages on Bruce Weber as an assistant? (worse yet I've read all the posts.) I just started a thread on potential candidates for 2022-23 video coordinator.
Well, it's kind of about the concept of having somebody like Bruce Weber on the bench, the way Al had Hank and Buzz had Wainwright.
But you're right, it is pretty funny. And I've read them all, too - d'oh!
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Buzz had Wainwright.
But you're right, it is pretty funny. And I've read them all, too - d'oh!
Until they had their falling out and, effectively, stopped speaking to one another. That is an occupational hazard of hiring someone to criticize the head coach.
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Some of your numbers are incorrect. Surely you realize that endowment is just one piece of the financial puzzle and plays a smaller role at land grant institutions than liberal arts schools.
Marquette isn't the only one impacted but of P6 schools that may possibly fire their basketball coach this season they may be in the most dire situation.
Boston College has an endowment of over $2 billion but that didn't mean they could fire Christian after last year. Endowments would almost never be used to buyout a coach, let alone be used for athletics in general.
On the subject of Christian, he was extended through 2021-22 after yet another disappointing season in 2018-19. Lower buyout.
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Until they had their falling out and, effectively, stopped speaking to one another. That is an occupational hazard of hiring someone to criticize the head coach.
Yeah, I seem to remember some weird story about how Wainwright told Todd Mayo to tell Buzz to give him more playing time. I wasn't sure if that was an oddity, or if that lack of communication between players and the head coach is typical at big time programs.
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I agree with you, and hairy too.
But if the honchos were happy with him going into this season - something many (most?) Scoopers were not - then to them it probably is one horrific season. During COVID. With injuries. Etc etc etc.
Serious question...Do you know the admin was “happy” with Wojo after the last two years? I’ve read others say the admin is thrilled with Wojo’s clean program, etc. are you just assuming this because the admin hasn’t said anything negative or do you know them to be thrilled with Wojo going into this season just because he hasn’t been fired.
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Serious question...Do you know the admin was “happy” with Wojo after the last two years? I’ve read others say the admin is thrilled with Wojo’s clean program, etc. are you just assuming this because the admin hasn’t said anything negative or do you know them to be thrilled with Wojo going into this season just because he hasn’t been fired.
I have no knowledge whether they were happy with him or not. Usually, though, there are leaks, and I think some Scoopers who do claim to have knowledge would have heard if they were disappointed, especially to the point where he was on the hot seat.
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We've really spent two pages on Bruce Weber as an assistant? (worse yet I've read all the posts.) I just started a thread on potential candidates for 2022-23 video coordinator.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Let's just say for fun that Kentucky fired Cal, even with the budget constraints would you want MU to try to sell their soul for him?
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Let's just say for fun that Kentucky fired Cal, even with the budget constraints would you want MU to try to sell their soul for him?
Won at UMass, won at Memphis and won at Kentucky.
Sign me up
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Let's just say for fun that Kentucky fired Cal, even with the budget constraints would you want MU to try to sell their soul for him?
Phuck yeah
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Let's just say for fun that Kentucky fired Cal, even with the budget constraints would you want MU to try to sell their soul for him?
Will never ever ever happen.
But are you kidding me? We'd crawl through broken glass to bring Cal to Marquette.
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How about as Wojo's assistant!
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What about UW-M's Baldwin and son?
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Ok, If Wojo is not the guy, and money is the biggest issue for not firing him, then keep Wojo as a lame duck coach for a year and then fire him. Paying more money for an assistant coach to patch up Wojos shortcomings doesn’t save money either. The only reason to bring in someone like Weber would be because you think Wojo can’t get the job done. If you think that, then the answer is to fire Wojo.
actually, communicating to Wojo he needs to bring in an experienced asst to help HIM game coach might be the ticket to get Wojo to bail. Financial issue/buy out solved!! And to think FluffyB once called me a moron 😂
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What about UW-M's Baldwin and son?
stretch, I suggested that once and pretty sure I was called a moron haha
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What about UW-M's Baldwin and son?
Hire a middling low major coach for a single year of a one and done? Hard pass.
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Oats just got a contract extension through 26-27.
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Oats just got a contract extension through 26-27.
Hopefully with a lower buyout? ;D
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Oats just got a contract extension through 26-27.
He ain’t coming
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Hopefully with a lower buyout? ;D
$3.225 million a year. Damn!
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Let's just say for fun that Kentucky fired Cal, even with the budget constraints would you want MU to try to sell their soul for him?
Hell ya. Satan would be waving that second Natty forever!
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$3.225 million a year. Damn!
Good. it wasn't gonna happen. But now we can end that pipe dream and be more pragmatic.
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Can we offer Jay Wright like $10M to coach both the Bucks and Marquette?
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Oats just got a contract extension through 26-27.
Renegotiated with a $1M buyout for any schools within 100 miles of his hometown of Watertown, WI.
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Oats just got a contract extension through 26-27.
Obviously Bama knew the moderators were going to offer Oats a 50% share in our subscription fees and the Tide had to up the ante
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Obviously Bama knew the moderators were going to offer Oats a 50% share in our subscription fees and the Tide had to up the ante
Perhaps Oats pulled a Buzz and showed his bosses the internet reports of other schools ready to offer big bucks and they ponied up.
Which one of you is really Nate Oats’ agent?
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Renegotiated with a $1M buyout for any schools within 100 miles of his hometown of Watertown, WI.
Really?!?!? I haven't seen this anywhere.
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Really?!?!? I haven't seen this anywhere.
I'm quite sure it's a joke, but on the smallest chance that it's not that'd be awesome.
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I'm quite sure it's a joke, but on the smallest chance that it's not that'd be awesome.
Boooooo.
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Really?!?!? I haven't seen this anywhere.
Didn't think I'd need teal, but nice to dream... ;)
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Didn't think I'd need teal, but nice to dream... ;)
Wishful thinking.
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If MU adds another winnable game, the projects of us winning our last four of six goes up significantly higher - which would all but guarantee Wojo returns next season. I'm sure the school and admin will do everything possible to justify and give reason to bring everyone back next year. At that point, it would be what it would be.
Even if ended up beating Butler, DePaul, OOC game and a BET game to end the season, I, personally, think a change would still need to be made but wouldn't hold my breath. That would be all the school would need to justify holding the course for another year.
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If MU adds another winnable game, the projects of us winning our last four of six goes up significantly higher - which would all but guarantee Wojo returns next season. I'm sure the school and admin will do everything possible to justify and give reason to bring everyone back next year. At that point, it would be what it would be.
Even if ended up beating Butler, DePaul, OOC game and a BET game to end the season, I, personally, think a change would still need to be made but wouldn't hold my breath. That would be all the school would need to justify holding the course for another year.
Is the Georgetown game officially canceled yet? It still says postponed on gomarquette.com.
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Is the Georgetown game officially canceled yet? It still says postponed on gomarquette.com.
That way if Scholl says "you're fired at the end of the season" Wojo can say "well the seasons not over we still have a game postponed indefinitely"
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That way if Scholl says "you're fired at the end of the season" Wojo can say "well the seasons not over we still have a game postponed indefinitely"
the problem with that is Scholl reports to Lovell. Lovell is the one who will make the final decision.
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Is the Georgetown game officially canceled yet? It still says postponed on gomarquette.com.
There's really no date to make it up. I guess February 25, or if they try to fit it between the season end and the BET.
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There's really no date to make it up. I guess February 25, or if they try to fit it between the season end and the BET.
It sounds like the Georgetown game is unlikely. They already play 2/20, 2/23 and 2/27. They aren't playing four games in a week.
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That way if Scholl says "you're fired at the end of the season" Wojo can say "well the seasons not over we still have a game postponed indefinitely"
Was hoping for Georgetown or a lesser opponent buy game but believe an MU NC game would be better than no game given our current position.
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That way if Scholl says "you're fired at the end of the season" Wojo can say "well the seasons not over we still have a game postponed indefinitely"
Not sure if any MU talk figured in but just heard on the Mizzou SC Game that Nate Oates just signed an extension with Alabama at 3 Million plus a year.
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Not sure if any MU talk figured in but just heard on the Mizzou SC Game that Nate Oates just signed an extension with Alabama at 3 Million plus a year.
Also just heard on the Mizzou SC game the announcer just said Rick Majerus explained the game better than any announcer he had ever worked with.
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Not sure if any MU talk figured in but just heard on the Mizzou SC Game that Nate Oates just signed an extension with Alabama at 3 Million plus a year.
Nate Oats ain’t coming to Marquette. If he keeps winning at Alabama, he’ll be on the short list of guys to replace Calipari one day
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It might be a rash judgment, or even have no relation whatsoever, but the UNC addition gives me reason to believe Wojo is for sure coming back next year. If he was coaching for his job, I'd imagine, and I could very well be wrong, that he would have looked to schedule a more-accessible win than at UNC. Furthermore, the MUBB Twitter account, in announcing the game, even highlighted that the team will continue its stretch of road games (six total). It just very much appears that the seeds have already been planted in justifying/explaining to the fans/alumni as to why Wojo will return for an eighth season. I'm not sure though, it could be reading too much into a simple one-off addition.
Regardless of the head coach, the players on the team or whomever we are playing, I will always root for MU to win. It just does not seem like there will be much, if any, momentum riding into next year if Wojo returns, along with projected losses to UConn, Xavier, UNC and in the BET. We could also still lose to DePaul (again).
Next few weeks will be entertaining. I'll try and just focus and enjoy the next game against UNC. If we somehow beat UNC, then it would be guaranteed Wojo comes back, no question.
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It might be a rash judgment, or even have no relation whatsoever, but the UNC addition gives me reason to believe Wojo is for sure coming back next year. If he was coaching for his job, I'd imagine, and I could very well be wrong, that he would have looked to schedule a more-accessible win than at UNC. Furthermore, the MUBB Twitter account, in announcing the game, even highlighted that the team will continue its stretch of road games (six total). It just very much appears that the seeds have already been planted in justifying/explaining to the fans/alumni as to why Wojo will return for an eighth season. I'm not sure though, it could be reading too much into a simple one-off addition.
Regardless of the head coach, the players on the team or whomever we are playing, I will always root for MU to win. It just does not seem like there will be much, if any, momentum riding into next year if Wojo returns, along with projected losses to UConn, Xavier, UNC and in the BET. We could also still lose to DePaul (again).
Next few weeks will be entertaining. I'll try and just focus and enjoy the next game against UNC. If we somehow beat UNC, then it would be guaranteed Wojo comes back, no question.
Relax. Still very possible that thin-skinned Wojo seeks and finds a new gig. A UNC win does not guarantee that he'll be back but I agree that if he is, we are in for another disappointing season. I still believe its in Wojo's own best interest to leave on his own to save his career in the long run. Let's hope he does just that.
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Nate Oats ain’t coming to Marquette. If he keeps winning at Alabama, he’ll be on the short list of guys to replace Calipari one day
Agree if there was even a chance at landing the Watertown Wisconsin Native there is no longer after his freshly signed Extension at over 3 Million a year.
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It might be a rash judgment, or even have no relation whatsoever, but the UNC addition gives me reason to believe Wojo is for sure coming back next year. If he was coaching for his job, I'd imagine, and I could very well be wrong, that he would have looked to schedule a more-accessible win than at UNC. Furthermore, the MUBB Twitter account, in announcing the game, even highlighted that the team will continue its stretch of road games (six total). It just very much appears that the seeds have already been planted in justifying/explaining to the fans/alumni as to why Wojo will return for an eighth season. I'm not sure though, it could be reading too much into a simple one-off addition.
Regardless of the head coach, the players on the team or whomever we are playing, I will always root for MU to win. It just does not seem like there will be much, if any, momentum riding into next year if Wojo returns, along with projected losses to UConn, Xavier, UNC and in the BET. We could also still lose to DePaul (again).
Next few weeks will be entertaining. I'll try and just focus and enjoy the next game against UNC. If we somehow beat UNC, then it would be guaranteed Wojo comes back, no question.
Agree with most of this and will try to just Enjoy the Added National Coverage game.Was hoping for Georgetown or a lesser opponent buy game but believe an MU NC game would be better than no game given our current position. UNC just added and beat Northeastern 86-66 a few nights ago. UNC is playing for their NCAA tournament lives and to get into the NCAA tournament. UNC has Duke Coming up again after Our game. Marquette is probably playing to get into the NIT if that is a thing. Odds our against us but teams have done it in the past and want MU to win every game. We will have fun watching! Go MU!
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It might be a rash judgment, or even have no relation whatsoever, but the UNC addition gives me reason to believe Wojo is for sure coming back next year. If he was coaching for his job, I'd imagine, and I could very well be wrong, that he would have looked to schedule a more-accessible win than at UNC. Furthermore, the MUBB Twitter account, in announcing the game, even highlighted that the team will continue its stretch of road games (six total). It just very much appears that the seeds have already been planted in justifying/explaining to the fans/alumni as to why Wojo will return for an eighth season. I'm not sure though, it could be reading too much into a simple one-off addition.
Regardless of the head coach, the players on the team or whomever we are playing, I will always root for MU to win. It just does not seem like there will be much, if any, momentum riding into next year if Wojo returns, along with projected losses to UConn, Xavier, UNC and in the BET. We could also still lose to DePaul (again).
Next few weeks will be entertaining. I'll try and just focus and enjoy the next game against UNC. If we somehow beat UNC, then it would be guaranteed Wojo comes back, no question.
Eh, I wouldn’t read too much into it. It’s not like a win against some low major is going to get the fans excited. If anything, they are thinking the money from this game can go towards a buyout, so we are playing.
I think if Wojo is able to find a decent landing spot (BC or another P5 football school), it’s in the best interest of both to move on. I would think MU would even lower the buyout the new school would have to pay.
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It might be a rash judgment, or even have no relation whatsoever, but the UNC addition gives me reason to believe Wojo is for sure coming back next year. If he was coaching for his job, I'd imagine, and I could very well be wrong, that he would have looked to schedule a more-accessible win than at UNC.
I'm among those who thinks he's back no matter what, but this is an interesting thesis.
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I'm among those who thinks he's back no matter what, but this is an interesting thesis.
If he's coaching for his job, this would be the type of game to schedule. Win the next four and they are right n the bubble. Not scheduling this game gives them no chance.
But I agree he'll be back.
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Woj ain't gonna bea judged on dis won game. Itz his bodie of werk dat's gonna make orr brake da dude, hey?
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If he's coaching for his job, this would be the type of game to schedule. Win the next four and they are right n the bubble. Not scheduling this game gives them no chance.
But I agree he'll be back.
15-12 won't get them in the dance, and they won't get to 15-12.
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I'm among those who thinks he's back no matter what, but this is an interesting thesis.
He is absolutely coming back unless he decides to leave.
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He is absolutely coming back unless he decides to leave.
Yep
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He is absolutely coming back unless he decides to leave.
Sounds like you need to accept Bad Reporter's bet.
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He is absolutely coming back unless he decides to leave.
So there is that to look forward to
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Matta has been rumored to be going back to Butler next year and if not Matta then Dennis Gates has been mentioned as a candidate. Obviously presumes Jordan is out after this year. No idea on that. Supposedly Matta is ready and able to coach again? Ohio State is no longer paying Matta not to coach so who knows. Point is there may be competition for Gates if MU was interested in him.
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Matta has been rumored to be going back to Butler next year and if not Matta then Dennis Gates has been mentioned as a candidate. Obviously presumes Jordan is out after this year. No idea on that. Supposedly Matta is ready and able to coach again? Ohio State is no longer paying Matta not to coach so who knows. Point is there may be competition for Gates if MU was interested in him.
Beyond Gates’ time at Marquette (which I don’t think is too impactful given it was brief and just a GA stint, I think Marquette is unequivocally a better job across the board. From pay to faculties to resources, kind of slam dunk. Short of a special relationship he had on the administration at Butler, or a random affinity for Hinkle or St Elmos Steakhouse, that would be a head to head hiring matchup Marquette should comfortable win. Key word is “should”
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After hearing Beilein's interview on Titus and Tate, I get the feeling he'll be back coaching college again next year. What schools are likely to be looking and attractive enough for him to take?
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After hearing Beilein's interview on Titus and Tate, I get the feeling he'll be back coaching college again next year. What schools are likely to be looking and attractive enough for him to take?
My guess is BC.
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Dennis Gates at Cleveland St.?
How it started:
https://twitter.com/TheAthleticCBB/status/1166485545293406208?s=19
How its going:
https://twitter.com/clevelanddotcom/status/1364273974310559744?s=19
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I still find it incredible that Beilein was never an assistant. Not even for a year. Just the most methodical climb up the ladder you can get
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My guess is BC.
As Wojo's assistant?
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After hearing Beilein's interview on Titus and Tate, I get the feeling he'll be back coaching college again next year. What schools are likely to be looking and attractive enough for him to take?
I think Beilein will go wherever is willing to hire his kid as an AC. That may be a non-issue, but I'd want some clarity as to why Beilein the younger suddenly packed his bags in the middle of the night weeks before coaching his first season as a D1 head coach.
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After hearing Beilein's interview on Titus and Tate, I get the feeling he'll be back coaching college again next year. What schools are likely to be looking and attractive enough for him to take?
Have said this on this site earlier, but my CoWorker was in Coach Beinlein’s office in Michigan talking with Coach Beilein and came away thinking he was one of the most organized people in any profession he had ever met. Coach Beilein a Catholic also has a great memory, when Coaching the Cavs he noticed my Coworker and friend walking into Saint John’s Cathedral in Milwaukee remembered him and said hi to him by name. If MU moves on, Coach Beilein would be an awesome choice given his organizational skills, having been to an NCAA title game, having been a pro Coach, he could probably keep our recruits here.
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Matta has been rumored to be going back to Butler next year and if not Matta then Dennis Gates has been mentioned as a candidate. Obviously presumes Jordan is out after this year. No idea on that. Supposedly Matta is ready and able to coach again? Ohio State is no longer paying Matta not to coach so who knows. Point is there may be competition for Gates if MU was interested in him.
Man, I hadn't even considered Matta to Butler as a possibility, but it makes a ton of sense. He'd be comfortable there, and after the dumpster fire of a season the Bulldogs have had, the fans would view him as a savior. And Butler needs help, but quick. Matta's a stud coach, and he'd be able to make them relevant again.
It would really, really suck to see Butler hire Matta and pass us up as a program while we're still stuck with Wojo's sorry ass.
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I think Beilein will go wherever is willing to hire his kid as an AC. That may be a non-issue, but I'd want some clarity as to why Beilein the younger suddenly packed his bags in the middle of the night weeks before coaching his first season as a D1 head coach.
There was a lot of chatter and supposedly sexual harassment filings from his female DOBO who came with him from Le Moyne. So nothing criminal, just some personal improprieties. I would think they would be easy enough to get past a few years later of his father was the outcome, provided there isn’t some mandatory succession plan asked for
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There was a lot of chatter and supposedly sexual harassment filings from his female DOBO who came with him from Le Moyne. So nothing criminal, just some personal improprieties. I would think they would be easy enough to get past a few years later of his father was the outcome, provided there isn’t some mandatory succession plan asked for
I'd still want more information than what's here. I work in Title IX Compliance. "Sexual Harassment" is used by universities as an umbrella term that covers everything from telling a raunchy joke too many times all the way up to violent sexual assaults at gunpoint. I would want to understand where on that spectrum this guy fell before making any decisions (assuming hiring the son as an AC is an actual demand). I don't think we can assume that nothing criminal happened. Complainants are under no obligation to go to the police, its possible something criminal did happen but her preference was to have the university handle it.
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Matta has been rumored to be going back to Butler next year and if not Matta then Dennis Gates has been mentioned as a candidate. Obviously presumes Jordan is out after this year. No idea on that. Supposedly Matta is ready and able to coach again? Ohio State is no longer paying Matta not to coach so who knows. Point is there may be competition for Gates if MU was interested in him.
Very interesting.
If I were somebody like Matta, I'd love to go to Butler. The money is fine, the conference is good, could build a Nova-like (or heck, a Stevens-at-Butler-like) program that reaches the second weekend regularly and maybe can go further. And the pressure is so much less than at a blueblood.
It's not "settling." It's realizing that the grass isn't always greener and that one can do excellent things in a more comfortable situation.
Assuming that Matta wants to coach again and that Marquette doesn't get him, I hope he does go back to Butler.
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My understanding is that Matta lives in Indy. Also Matta used to be an assistant coach for Barry Collier, Butler's current AD.
If both positions came open this year, I doubt Matta would give MU a look at all regardless of the $$ offered.
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I think the Matta waiting for Butler rumors are correct. IIRC, Matta's kids go to Butler.
I don't know that Jordan will be fired this year. I think under normal circumstances he wouldn't be, but maybe if they know Matta is waiting in the wings they make a move early.
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Absolute home run hire for Butler if that happens.
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I would commend Butler for having the guts to fire Jordan. Theres a lot said about "when would you have fired Wojo" well Jordan went NCAA, NIT, likely NCAA and now a rough year. That's quite the first three years to have and then fire a Coach. If Marquette had done that I might've been against it at the time but we wouldn't be here now in purgatory
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I would commend Butler for having the guts to fire Jordan. Theres a lot said about "when would you have fired Wojo" well Jordan went NCAA, NIT, likely NCAA and now a rough year. That's quite the first three years to have and then fire a Coach. If Marquette had done that I might've been against it at the time but we wouldn't be here now in purgatory
While I haven’t pored over Butler’s roster from those seasons, I’d guess Jordan did most of that winning with Holtmann’s players. And if you have the chance to hire a guy like Matta vs keeping someone who’s relatively unproven like Jordan is, you dump him and hire Matta. Butler isn’t the type of program that can withstand an extended period of irrelevance. I’d liken it to when the Cubs fired Rick Renteria to bring in Joe Maddon. If you have the chance to get a stud coach you think would be a perfect fit, you take it.
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While I haven’t pored over Butler’s roster from those seasons, I’d guess Jordan did most of that winning with Holtmann’s players. And if you have the chance to hire a guy like Matta vs keeping someone who’s relatively unproven like Jordan is, you dump him and hire Matta. Butler isn’t the type of program that can withstand an extended period of irrelevance. I’d liken it to when the Cubs fired Rick Renteria to bring in Joe Maddon. If you have the chance to get a stud coach you think would be a perfect fit, you take it.
I agree. That's why I'm saying it's commendable for them being willing to make that change. We weren't when plenty of people were saying let's move on and now we suck. If we had their guts we'd have canned Wojo ages ago in spite of the optics
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I agree. That's why I'm saying it's commendable for them being willing to make that change. We weren't when plenty of people were saying let's move on and now we suck. If we had their guts we'd have canned Wojo ages ago in spite of the optics
Should've made that call to Billy Donovan after all.
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I agree. That's why I'm saying it's commendable for them being willing to make that change. We weren't when plenty of people were saying let's move on and now we suck. If we had their guts we'd have canned Wojo ages ago in spite of the optics
Well, I think it’s a little different if you have a Thad Matta sitting at home saying, “whenever you’re ready, just give me a call.” I’m sure Wardle has said that, but I don’t know if we have a clear upgrade that’s just biding time for MU to open up.
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If Butler gets Matta, and DePaul actually hires a respected basketball coach, the bottom of the Big East definitely evolves headed into next year.
I'd be worried as an MU fan if things stay the course going into next season.
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Should've made that call to Billy Donovan after all.
Now we'll never know. Guess we'll have next year's sub .500 season to also look forward to.
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Should've made that call to Billy Donovan after all.
Donovan was never a realistic option for Marquette, I agree with you there. Maybe ten years from now after he’s been fired from two more NBA coaching jobs and has taken two years off and is looking to get back in the game, maybe then, if we happen to be in the market for a coach and we’re lucky, he’d take our call.
Now with that being said, what I don’t agree with is the spirit of your post. You seem to think it’s absurd for us to hope that any coach of merit would want to come to MU, so we may as well stick with Wojo, because just like you need 68 teams for a 68 team tournament, you need a coach to coach a basketball team, and who’s coming to Marquette, huh? Yeah, that’s what I thought, so you might as well stick with Wojo.
But like I’ve said before, it’s all over for Marquette when it comes to Wojo. Any way you slice it, Wojo will not be here after next season is over. If he’s retained for 21-22, he’ll either have another bad year and get canned, or have a good one and bolt for another job because it may well be his last, best chance to leave on his own without getting fired.
I know you love Wojo, you’ve been his biggest acolyte on here besides Chico and were a massive jerk to anyone who dared question his greatness (and you know it), but it’s all over. Just accept it. Or go to Kohl’s and buy some red. Either one works.
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There is one more situation. Wojo is retained, has a good year next season and grows from there as Marquette's coach.
I don't believe it will happen and think in a non-COVID year he should be fired (barring a miracle run to end the season) but it is not "all over."
I'd also add, that if/when Wojo leaves, we likely aren't getting a brand name coach. Wojo makes less than the vast majority of high major coaches, we don't pay enough to steal from most other high majors. We may get lucky if a guy like Beilein who's been out of coaching for awhile wants to sign up, but Beilein may come with baggage and Matta seems like he's waiting for Butler. I don't think there are any others currently available.
What we will end up with is most likely either a mid-major head coach, high-major assistant coach, or a recently fired high-major head coach. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fire Wojo because one of those guys likely could do a better job. But picking the right one will be tricky.
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Donovan was never a realistic option for Marquette, I agree with you there. Maybe ten years from now after he’s been fired from two more NBA coaching jobs and has taken two years off and is looking to get back in the game, maybe then, if we happen to be in the market for a coach and we’re lucky, he’d take our call.
Now with that being said, what I don’t agree with is the spirit of your post. You seem to think it’s absurd for us to hope that any coach of merit would want to come to MU, so we may as well stick with Wojo, because just like you need 68 teams for a 68 team tournament, you need a coach to coach a basketball team, and who’s coming to Marquette, huh? Yeah, that’s what I thought, so you might as well stick with Wojo.
But like I’ve said before, it’s all over for Marquette when it comes to Wojo. Any way you slice it, Wojo will not be here after next season is over. If he’s retained for 21-22, he’ll either have another bad year and get canned, or have a good one and bolt for another job because it may well be his last, best chance to leave on his own without getting fired.
I know you love Wojo, you’ve been his biggest acolyte on here besides Chico and were a massive jerk to anyone who dared question his greatness (and you know it), but it’s all over. Just accept it. Or go to Kohl’s and buy some red. Either one works.
I don't think it's absurd to think it's "absurd" to hope "any coach of merit would want to come to MU." What I think is absurd is thinking we should've fired Wojo after he finished in second place in the Big East and lost in the first round of a 5-12 upset. If Thad Matta himself showed up in Scholl's office and said, "Hey, I'm in for coaching MU for $2M a year. Just write up the contract." Then sure, you fire Wojo after the Hausers leave and you bring in the guy who's proven he can do it.
I don't "love Wojo." I love calling out the absolute BS that Scoop presents ("Hey! Billy Donovan's available!"). I'd be thrilled to move on from Wojo as I don't think he has the ability to coach up a team. But I also understand that there's a pandemic going on and heading into this season he would've made it to 3 NCAA Tournaments in 4 years had there not been a pandemic going on, so I also am realistic about the chances of MU moving on after this season and I'm not going to fire up the torches and get out the pitchforks if a change doesn't happen.
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I don't think it's absurd to think it's "absurd" to hope "any coach of merit would want to come to MU." What I think is absurd is thinking we should've fired Wojo after he finished in second place in the Big East and lost in the first round of a 5-12 upset. If Thad Matta himself showed up in Scholl's office and said, "Hey, I'm in for coaching MU for $2M a year. Just write up the contract." Then sure, you fire Wojo after the Hausers leave and you bring in the guy who's proven he can do it.
I don't "love Wojo." I love calling out the absolute BS that Scoop presents ("Hey! Billy Donovan's available!"). I'd be thrilled to move on from Wojo as I don't think he has the ability to coach up a team. But I also understand that there's a pandemic going on and heading into this season he would've made it to 3 NCAA Tournaments in 4 years had there not been a pandemic going on, so I also am realistic about the chances of MU moving on after this season and I'm not going to fire up the torches and get out the pitchforks if a change doesn't happen.
Yeah there's a difference between obsessively rehashing something that was a far fetched pipe dream from months ago as if it was a serious idea and calling it BS at the time... you're the former and it's actually pretty depressing. Do you still text ex's and call them out about something they did on the first date at MU? Text former roommates and say "I can't believe you didn't wash your dishes in 2010!"?
At this point it's almost worth it to start trolling you about your many 'interesting' takes over the years on scoop. Many of which aren't genius either. Not to mention of all the stupid things said on here over the years what an odd one to fixate on.
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Yeah there's a difference between obsessively rehashing something that was a far fetched pipe dream from months ago as if it was a serious idea and calling it BS at the time... you're the former and it's actually pretty depressing. Do you still text ex's and call them out about something they did on the first date at MU? Text former roommates and say "I can't believe you didn't wash your dishes in 2010!"?
At this point it's almost worth it to start trolling you about your many 'interesting' takes over the years on scoop. Many of which aren't genius either. Not to mention of all the stupid things said on here over the years what an odd one to fixate on.
Please have at it.
The point is that firing a coach after a couple decent seasons while he's currently struggling mightily is much easier to do when there is supposedly a coach who's been to two Final Fours asking you to take them in as their next head coach. Who is that for Marquette? Billy Donovan would've been a nice one. But he was always taking another NBA head coaching job.
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I said it was almost worth it. >14k posts is a few too many to go through to make it worth it.
I don't believe we have one for Marquette. Essentially what I was trying to say regarding Donovan is nobody's going to reach out send out a feeler with a brief emotional appeal and see if there's interest. For him "Midwest guy, catholic school, big East experience, found most success at college" no different than my opinions regarding Beilein, Mata and any other super successfully coach who retired early and may have been without a job. Obviously at the time I didn't foresee him hopping over the Bulls right away.
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John Beilien would be an excellent coach for Marquette. My only concern is he is 67 years old and how much staying power he has. I'd trade a short term with an NCAA Final Four for a long-term middling coach any day.
Thad Motta generally falls into the same category, though I think he has a few more miles left on him. While I can't speak to the personal links to Butler, I'd think we would be a very attractive option for him.
With both of these guys, you better have the contracts drawn and have them locked in President Lovell's office BEFORE moving on from Wojo. Then you call Wojo and write him a check. NO MORE SHAKA!!!!
All this said, I really don't think Marquette is terminating Coach Wojo this year. I suspect he has one more year to prove himself. I would have thought this year would be the defining moment but the Covid-19 pandemic, the lack of summer conditioning and training and the lost practice before the season started all are convenient excuses.
I would expect his seat to be 1000 Kelvin next year if our team does not materially improve.
My biggest fear: we improve just enough to make the tournament and even win a game against an unsuspecting foe. The BOT and AD extend Wojo's contract and tell all the Nojos to pound sand. We end up mired in mediocrity for another genearation.
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John Beilien would be an excellent coach for Marquette. My only concern is he is 67 years old and how much staying power he has. I'd trade a short term with an NCAA Final Four for a long-term middling coach any day.
Thad Motta generally falls into the same category, though I think he has a few more miles left on him. While I can't speak to the personal links to Butler, I'd think we would be a very attractive option for him.
With both of these guys, you better have the contracts drawn and have them locked in President Lovell's office BEFORE moving on from Wojo. Then you call Wojo and write him a check. NO MORE SHAKA!!!!
All this said, I really don't think Marquette is terminating Coach Wojo this year. I suspect he has one more year to prove himself. I would have thought this year would be the defining moment but the Covid-19 pandemic, the lack of summer conditioning and training and the lost practice before the season started all are convenient excuses.
I would expect his seat to be 1000 Kelvin next year if our team does not materially improve.
My biggest fear: we improve just enough to make the tournament and even win a game against an unsuspecting foe. The BOT and AD extend Wojo's contract and tell all the Nojos to pound sand. We end up mired in mediocrity for another genearation.
I'm not sure how we are a better team next year considering what we are losing. 3 seniors and *probably* DJ Carton out the door. I don't even know who our starters are...
Garcia, Lewis, Elliot, Sy, and Perez? Sounds like we should be good for about 9th in the BEAST. The 3 incoming freshman are top 100 talent, and I'm happy we landed them, but the class reminds me of the Cain/Elliot/John class so much. And they're probably going to need a year of work before being major contributors.
If Wojo is smart, he is running out the open door towards greener pastures.
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I'm not sure how we are a better team next year considering what we are losing. 3 seniors and *probably* DJ Carton out the door. I don't even know who our starters are...
Garcia, Lewis, Elliot, Sy, and Perez? Sounds like we should be good for about 9th in the BEAST. The 3 incoming freshman are top 100 talent, and I'm happy we landed them, but the class reminds me of the Cain/Elliot/John class so much. And they're probably going to need a year of work before being major contributors.
If Wojo is smart, he is running out the open door towards greener pastures.
Not as sure as you Carton is gone if Wojo stays. Just don't see it.
The core of the team is Carton, Lewis and Garcia. Would like to think Stevie Mitchell or Kameron Jones would be an impact player and that one or two transfer could contribute. But I get your point and unless we see a significant step-up, next year is going to be a s*itfest.
The question now is, "Exactly how hot is Wojo's seat?" It's a little warmer than the bun warmers built into the seat of his car but I doubt his pants are on fire -- yet!
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The 3 incoming freshman are top 100 talent, and I'm happy we landed them, but the class reminds me of the Cain/Elliot/John class so much. And they're probably going to need a year of work before being major contributors.
I mean, they might end up being like the 2017 class but per 247:
2017:
Big East Rank: 8/10
National Rank: 59
Team Score: 45.01
Jamal Cain: #145
Theo John: #204
Greg Elliott: #224
Ike Eke: #361
2021:
Big East Rank: 5/11
National Rank: 21 (12 with KC)
Team Score: 57.41 (60.08 with KC)
Jonas Aidoo: #60
Stevie Mitchell: #86
Kameron Jones: #162
(Kordell Charles: #167)
Rankings aren't everything, but at least on paper, this class is significantly better than the 2017 class. All 3 commits (4 if Charles signs up) are all ranked higher than the entire 2017 class minus Cain and the top 2 are higher than Cain.
If the big 3 stay and we don't lose everybody else (and don't replace them with better transfers), we should be a better team next season than we are this season.
Even so, I'd still prefer to move on to another coach.
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I mean, they might end up being like the 2017 class but per 247:
2017:
Big East Rank: 8/10
National Rank: 59
Team Score: 45.01
Jamal Cain: #145
Theo John: #204
Greg Elliott: #224
Ike Eke: #361
2021:
Big East Rank: 5/11
National Rank: 21 (12 with KC)
Team Score: 57.41 (60.08 with KC)
Jonas Aidoo: #60
Stevie Mitchell: #86
Kameron Jones: #162
(Kordell Charles: #167)
Rankings aren't everything, but at least on paper, this class is significantly better than the 2017 class. All 3 commits (4 if Charles signs up) are all ranked higher than the entire 2017 class minus Cain and the top 2 are higher than Cain.
If the big 3 stay and we don't lose everybody else (and don't replace them with better transfers), we should be a better team next season than we are this season.
Even so, I'd still prefer to move on to another coach.
Thanks Brother TAMU. I agree with every point you make.
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If DJ, Garcia and Lewis all return, if 2 of our recruits can contribute at least as much as Lewis did before he got hurt, and if Wojo brings in a couple of good transfers, I actually believe we can be quite good next season.
Freshmen who get the kind of run Garcia has and pre-injury Lewis did almost always are much better as sophomores.
I know, I know ... Wojo can't develop anybody!
Except look at Markus and Sam as sophomores. They went from solid role players to stars.
I know, I know ... The guys who regressed or stayed relatively the same - Wojo's fault. The guys who improved - happened in spite of Wojo. I get the drill.
But silly me, I'm gonna say that Garcia and Lewis will improve a lot next season - hopefully at Marquette. So will DJ, who is more like a redshirt freshman this season. I don't think there will be many BEast teams that have a better trio than that if they all stay.
Then it's a matter of putting good (or better than merely good) role players around them, which is doable with the no-sit transfer rules and the promise of playing time.
I'm an optimist, yes, but I'm also a realist. I'm not predicting a BEast title or anything. Hell, I'm on the record as saying Wojo already should have been fired, and I mean it.
But if he isn't fired and if DJ, DG and JL stay, I think we will be better next season than quite a few other Scoopers do.
Now, if one or more of those 3 bolt, none of the incoming recruits is ready to contribute and/or Wojo can't land an impact transfer or two, yes, we'll suck again next season.
But I'm gonna choose to accentuate the positive until I have reason to do otherwise. And for me, "Wojo sucks!" is not reason to do otherwise. He sucked in 2017 and 2019, too, and I very much enjoyed watching those teams (the latter until the mutiny, at least).
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If Butler gets Matta, and DePaul actually hires a respected basketball coach, the bottom of the Big East definitely evolves headed into next year.
I'd be worried as an MU fan if things stay the course going into next season.
What me worry?
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But I'm gonna choose to accentuate the positive until I have reason to do otherwise. And for me, "Wojo sucks!" is not reason to do otherwise. He sucked in 2017 and 2019, too, and I very much enjoyed watching those teams (the latter until the mutiny, at least).
Spoken like someone who hasn't truly been hurt by Wojo yet. ;) You know the saying, "fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again!"
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Spoken like someone who hasn't truly been hurt by Wojo yet. ;) You know the saying, "fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again!"
Correct. He never fouled me hard after slapping the floor.
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We’ve talked about Damon Stoudamire a bit. I think he’s a good coach in the making, but I don’t love his style. Don’t score a lot of points, slow down and try to grind out games against better teams. It’s not UVA, but it’s not super visually pleasing. Watching Pacific vs St Mary’s tonight feels like extra points were given on each made basket for using more than 25 seconds on the shot clock. No thanks
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There is one more situation. Wojo is retained, has a good year next season and grows from there as Marquette's coach.
I don't believe it will happen and think in a non-COVID year he should be fired (barring a miracle run to end the season) but it is not "all over."
I'd also add, that if/when Wojo leaves, we likely aren't getting a brand name coach. Wojo makes less than the vast majority of high major coaches, we don't pay enough to steal from most other high majors. We may get lucky if a guy like Beilein who's been out of coaching for awhile wants to sign up, but Beilein may come with baggage and Matta seems like he's waiting for Butler. I don't think there are any others currently available.
What we will end up with is most likely either a mid-major head coach, high-major assistant coach, or a recently fired high-major head coach. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fire Wojo because one of those guys likely could do a better job. But picking the right one will be tricky.
Sllllluuuurrrrpp! Gulp!
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All 3 commits (4 if Charles signs up) are all ranked higher than the entire 2017 class minus Cain and the top 2 are higher than Cain.
What happened to Cain that he fell that far? He was RSCI Top-100 in their first composite for the class (in the 90s, so barely, but he was there) and I only remember him putting up monster numbers as a senior (just checked, 24/14/4 as a senior). Why did he fall so far?
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Sllllluuuurrrrpp! Gulp!
What are your thoughts on bringing Brian Wardle home?
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What are your thoughts on bringing Brian Wardle home?
Great question. I'll expand. willie, if you could pick Marquette's next head coach, who would make you happy? Who do you think they should target?
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I fully understand that Wojo isn’t going to be fired due to covid but if it’s true that Beiline wants to get back into coaching then you have to kick the tires. If he’s interested in Marquette then act like a big time program and pull the trigger. It would suck to see him go to BC or some other lesser school knowing we could’ve had him. It’ll be like letting Nate Oates slip away after 2019 (yeah I know, 5 seed, not gonna fire Wojo, blah blah blah).
If you have your guy then hire him. Don’t put it off for another year when there’ll be no one near Beiline available to hire.
Granted this is all under the assumption that Beiline wants to coach again and would be interested in MU...and if true MU would be dumb as phuck not to look into that
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I fully understand that Wojo isn’t going to be fired due to covid but if it’s true that Beiline wants to get back into coaching then you have to kick the tires. If he’s interested in Marquette then act like a big time program and pull the trigger. It would suck to see him go to BC or some other lesser school knowing we could’ve had him. It’ll be like letting Nate Oates slip away after 2019 (yeah I know, 5 seed, not gonna fire Wojo, blah blah blah).
If you have your guy then hire him. Don’t put it off for another year when there’ll be no one near Beiline available to hire.
Granted this is all under the assumption that Beiline wants to coach again and would be interested in MU...and if true MU would be dumb as phuck not to look into that
John Beilein
Pro’s:
Fantastic offensive coach
Wins everywhere
Adjusts his styles effectively
Con’s:
68 years-old
Possible package deal with his kid
Marquette fans spelling his name
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John Beilein
Pro’s:
Fantastic offensive coach
Wins everywhere
Adjusts his styles effectively
Con’s:
68 years-old
Possible package deal with his kid
Marquette fans spelling his name
Cons he called his players with the Cavs “slugs”
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Cons he called his players with the Cavs “slugs”
For some alum, that’s a pro
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Great question. I'll expand. willie, if you could pick Marquette's next head coach, who would make you happy? Who do you think they should target?
A mythological Al McGuire type of person that doesn't exist, nor would be effective in today's game.
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Hologram Al. With hologram Dean and hologram Wooden as his assistants.
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John Beilein
Pro’s:
Fantastic offensive coach
Wins everywhere
Adjusts his styles effectively
Con’s:
68 years-old
Possible package deal with his kid
Marquette fans spelling his name
Let's say at 68 we got 4 years of Beilein. Is that enough to get us back to Buzz success? I think it could be. And then we at least are back to prominence again for our next search.
The bit about the son is disconcerting.
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Great question. I'll expand. willie, if you could pick Marquette's next head coach, who would make you happy? Who do you think they should target?
Wee Willie already answered that question for us. He has a bulging Wardle Woody.
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Sllllluuuurrrrpp! Gulp!
What about a post that says I don't believe Wojo can get it done and that there is a coach at a lower level that can do better than him is slurping to you Willie?
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If we could get doc and wardle in as head co-coaches, that would be great. Then maybe Phil Jackson as senior advisor. He can advise via zoom from his ranch and doc can consult Phil during games via iPad. Phil can watch in TV. Phil is still alive, isn’t he.
But who do we get as the experienced college bench coach? Maybe Matta and his kid? His kid can be the video coordinator.
I think that could work. Just throw enough money at them.
I know no one asked for my opinion, but that’s my two cents.
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Let's say at 68 we got 4 years of Beilein. Is that enough to get us back to Buzz success? I think it could be. And then we at least are back to prominence again for our next search.
The bit about the son is disconcerting.
He recruited at a high enough level at the end of his Michigan tenure and his development of players was quite good. If he decides to get back into coaching, I think the program getting him gets a coach that can lay a good foundation. I guess it depends on what he’s looking for. Does he want to rebuild or does he want to take over a program on the cusp?
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If we could get doc and wardle in as head co-coaches, that would be great. Then maybe Phil Jackson as senior advisor. He can advise via zoom from his ranch and doc can consult Phil during games via iPad. Phil can watch in TV. Phil is still alive, isn’t he.
But who do we get as the experienced college bench coach? Maybe Matta and his kid? His kid can be the video coordinator.
I think that could work. Just throw enough money at them.
I know no one asked for my opinion, but that’s my two cents.
I would be down with all that. Maybe we can buy the remains of John Wooden or have Lazar summon him for advice periodically.
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Let's say at 68 we got 4 years of Beilein. Is that enough to get us back to Buzz success? I think it could be. And then we at least are back to prominence again for our next search.
The bit about the son is disconcerting.
Give it a couple years and you might be able to get Buzz back cheap.
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Give it a couple years and you might be able to get Buzz back cheap.
Or Shaka. He might have been available, but I think he is doing too well this season.
And, yes, I am joking, but only halfway.
In reality Wojo has been on the cusp a few times. He will be back next year. Then we'll take it from there.
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What about a post that says I don't believe Wojo can get it done and that there is a coach at a lower level that can do better than him is slurping to you Willie?
No that would be great, so do it and acknowledge that belief. Do you have the gonads?
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No that would be great, so do it and acknowledge that belief. Do you have the gonads?
I literally said that in the post you quoted. So I guess you're defending Wojo now?
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I literally said that in the post you quoted. So I guess you're defending Wojo now?
Literally? Really? Its OK man. Hang on to the Wojo-Dukiet worship. The law of averages says he is due for a good year sometime. Remember back a couple years ago, when many here postulated that Wojo-Dukiet has us on the upward trajectory? Guessing you were likely on that joyride, so maybe we can all hope for that to happen soon. Because after all, 7 years is not enough time for him to get it together, and it is too expensive to switch him out, because of covid.
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What are your thoughts on bringing Brian Wardle home?
Do a bang up search and if he comes out as the best candidate then I would support that. He could just possibly do better than the 7 year wonder we currently worship
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Do a bang up search and if he comes out as the best candidate then I would support that. He could just possibly do better than the 7 year wonder we currently worship
Who's worshiping Wojo these days?
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Folks think this guy or that guy is a sure thing, but look at Archie Miller. I think we'd be pretty happy hiring a coach with the resume he brought to Indiana.
He still might prove to be a good hire. His career trajectory is quite similar to that of Shaka, who seems to have finally lived up to the billing at Texas.
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Literally? Really?
Yes. Really
There is one more situation. Wojo is retained, has a good year next season and grows from there as Marquette's coach.
I don't believe it will happen and think in a non-COVID year he should be fired (barring a miracle run to end the season) but it is not "all over."
What we will end up with is most likely either a mid-major head coach, high-major assistant coach, or a recently fired high-major head coach. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fire Wojo because one of those guys likely could do a better job. But picking the right one will be tricky.
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Somebody, anyone else.
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i've brought this dude up before-BEN McCOLLUM-
northwest missouri state
by his 3rd year, he has had this program ROCKIN!! he has a new influx of players every year, kids want to play for him and HE WINS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_McCollum
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D2 to high level D1 rarely works. McCollum might be great eventually but needs mid major experience first.
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D2 to high level D1 rarely works. McCollum might be great eventually but needs mid major experience first.
Exactly. Look at Kim Anderson at Mizzou. D2 National title to 8 conference wins in three seasons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Anderson_(basketball)
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Is Prohm a bad coach? I know he's had a terrible year but Iowa St lost a lot. Just throwing it out there, it sounds like he could be terminated
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I didn't realize how bad 19-20 was for I. State.. Hmmmm....probably not the answer.
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Is Prohm a bad coach? I know he's had a terrible year but Iowa St lost a lot. Just throwing it out there, it sounds like he could be terminated
That would open up the ultimate Marquette to Marquette West transfer if Wojo took over for Prohm.
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i've brought this dude up before-BEN McCOLLUM-
northwest missouri state
by his 3rd year, he has had this program ROCKIN!! he has a new influx of players every year, kids want to play for him and HE WINS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_McCollum
Dude has never even spent time on a D1 sideline as a coach or played. At least Kim Anderson was a D1 assistant and he still failed. McCollum is not the answer. At least not until he went to a lower level school and won. Hell, look at Linc Darner, very good D2 coach and he struggled at the low major D1 level, much less the Big East.
Is Prohm a bad coach? I know he's had a terrible year but Iowa St lost a lot. Just throwing it out there, it sounds like he could be terminated
Bad coach? I don’t think so, but he walked into a really nice situation at Murray St that Kennedy had set up. He’s kind of floundered once he moved past the Hoiberg player remnants
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Dude has never even spent time on a D1 sideline as a coach or played. At least Kim Anderson was a D1 assistant and he still failed. McCollum is not the answer. At least not until he went to a lower level school and won. Hell, look at Linc Darner, very good D2 coach and he struggled at the low major D1 level, much less the Big East.
Bad coach? I don’t think so, but he walked into a really nice situation at Murray St that Kennedy had set up. He’s kind of floundered once he moved past the Hoiberg player remnants
Prohm will have to reboot his coaching career in a mid-major again and maybe that’s where he’ll thrive. Hiring him after being fired from Iowa State doesn’t inspire much confidence
Truth is, Murray State guys have done okay moving up, not great. Mick Cronin has probably had the most success of the lot going back to Scott Edgar
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FWIW, the Coaching Changes Twitter account, again run by anonymous NCAA D1 assistant coaches, are putting Wojo as the 6th hottest seat now behind Minnesota, DePaul, Indiana, Iowa State and Arizona.
IMO, it's unlikely Arizona makes a move. Miller has just won three straight and they are set at 17-8. The rest I can definitely see changes occurring.
Dare I say that Wojo and Pitino have had similar tenure? Both 7+ years, two NCAAT appearances, losing conference record, consistently inconsistent and both "protected" due to background (Pitino - family name, Wojo - Duke association).
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FWIW, the Coaching Changes Twitter account, again run by anonymous NCAA D1 assistant coaches, are putting Wojo as the 6th hottest seat now behind Minnesota, DePaul, Indiana, Iowa State and Arizona.
IMO, it's unlikely Arizona makes a move. Miller has just won three straight and they are set at 17-8. The rest I can definitely see changes occurring.
Dare I say that Wojo and Pitino have had similar tenure? Both 7+ years, two NCAAT appearances, losing conference record, consistently inconsistent and both "protected" due to background (Pitino - family name, Wojo - Duke association).
I think those protection ideas are ludicrous
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Wojo isn’t being “protected” due to his Duke association. He bought himself some time due to being in the tournament two straight years prior to this one. It’s not hard.
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I think those protection ideas are ludicrous
What did Pitino do to earn a high-major coaching job and not get dismissed when he is in year eight of the program? Go 18-14 at FAU? It has everything to do with his name.
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Doesn’t Miller have an absurd contract about what he’s paid if he gets fired? I think it’s actually more to fire him for cause than not. I thought I remember his contract making it really tough for Arizona to fire him when the recruiting stuff started.
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Wojo isn’t being “protected” due to his Duke association. He bought himself some time due to being in the tournament two straight years prior to this one. It’s not hard.
There was no tournament last year. Officially, there are no tournament teams for 2020. Would MU likely have gotten in? Sure. Could MU have gotten blown out/embarrassed again too? Also possible.
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There was no tournament last year. Officially, there are no tournament teams for 2020. Would MU likely have gotten in? Sure. Could MU have gotten blown out/embarrassed again too? Also possible.
You can’t really view it like that though. That basically ignores the body of work of the season. Plus, enough people predict the bracket that it’s easy to see we had a tournament resume.
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Doesn’t Miller have an absurd contract about what he’s paid if he gets fired? I think it’s actually more to fire him for cause than not. I thought I remember his contract making it really tough for Arizona to fire him when the recruiting stuff started.
Yes. His contract at Arizona calls for him to get paid more if thr firing is with cause. Bad contract language that the school did not, or would not, catch.
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What did Pitino do to earn a high-major coaching job and not get dismissed when he is in year eight of the program? Go 18-14 at FAU? It has everything to do with his name.
But why would Minnesota hold onto him because of his name?
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You can’t really view it like that though. That basically ignores the body of work of the season. Plus, enough people predict the bracket that it’s easy to see we had a tournament resume.
Body of work includes trajectory. The team lost six of its final seven games. It was an underdog in its BET game against Hall. Very possible it could have lost eight of its final nine games. Teams were game planning to stop Markus and have other guys beat them. Up until the cancelation, we did not have an answer.
We cannot ignore trajectory in addition to reviewing body of work.
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Body of work includes trajectory. The team lost six of its final seven games. It was an underdog in its BET game against Hall. Very possible it could have lost eight of its final nine games. Teams were game planning to stop Markus and have other guys beat them. Up until the cancelation, we did not have an answer.
We cannot ignore trajectory in addition to reviewing body of work.
They would have made the tournament. Marquette isn’t firing their coach after back to back tournament appearances.
And what exactly is he being protected from? The wrath of a 74 year old coach?
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They would have made the tournament. Marquette isn’t firing their coach after back to back tournament appearances.
And what exactly is he being protected from? The wrath of a 74 year old coach?
Go ahead and list the programs that made back to back NCAATs while experiencing massive collapses to close out both seasons with blowout losses in the tournament. Marquette is completely unique in that regard. We compare ourselves to what other programs have done but we are our own case.
That was the trajectory last year. If we say the coaching staff made the tournament last year, which there was no official tournament, then we have to consider how it would have played out. Teams figured out how to beat us (again), and we didn't have any adjustments. It was ride or die with Markus.
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But why would Minnesota hold onto him because of his name?
I encourage to read the Gophers beat and their fan boards.
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Go ahead and list the programs that made back to back NCAATs while experiencing massive collapses to close out both seasons with blowout losses in the tournament. Marquette is completely unique in that regard. We compare ourselves to what other programs have done but we are our own case.
That was the trajectory last year. If we say the coaching staff made the tournament last year, which there was no official tournament, then we have to consider how it would have played out. Teams figured out how to beat us (again), and we didn't have any adjustments. It was ride or die with Markus.
Oh, I totally agree that they likely would have gotten blasted in the tournament. That’s the Wojo special.
But that doesn’t change the fact they were pretty well locked into a bid. The committee doesn’t look at narratives like we do. They don’t care that MU was having a second consecutive collapse at the end of the season. They just look at the resume and MU’s resume was good enough for a bid.
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Go ahead and list the programs that made back to back NCAATs while experiencing massive collapses to close out both seasons with blowout losses in the tournament. Marquette is completely unique in that regard. We compare ourselves to what other programs have done but we are our own case.
That was the trajectory last year. If we say the coaching staff made the tournament last year, which there was no official tournament, then we have to consider how it would have played out. Teams figured out how to beat us (again), and we didn't have any adjustments. It was ride or die with Markus.
I ain’t listing anything. The fact is that your “protection” hypothesis is dumb and the reasons they will retain Wojo are pretty obvious. You may not AGREE with them, but they are there.
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Go ahead and list the programs that made back to back NCAATs while experiencing massive collapses to close out both seasons with blowout losses in the tournament. Marquette is completely unique in that regard. We compare ourselves to what other programs have done but we are our own case.
That was the trajectory last year. If we say the coaching staff made the tournament last year, which there was no official tournament, then we have to consider how it would have played out. Teams figured out how to beat us (again), and we didn't have any adjustments. It was ride or die with Markus.
Who are you arguing with here? Sultan thinks Wojo should get fired, as do I.
Unfortunately, neither you, Sultan nor I make these decisions.
Question: Are you convinced he will get fired after this season?
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Maryland fans always want Turgeon gone. I’d take him off their hands.
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Who are you arguing with here? Sultan thinks Wojo should get fired, as do I.
Unfortunately, neither you, Sultan nor I make these decisions.
Question: Are you convinced he will get fired after this season?
Right. I’m only saying that he isn’t “protected” due to being a Coach K assistant and that keeping him is “understandable” even though I don’t agree.
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Maryland fans always want Turgeon gone. I’d take him off their hands.
In 18 years of coaching, he’s made 2 Sweet 16’s. Unfortunately for him, his best team at Maryland was probably last season. Hard to believe he’s been at Maryland since 2011
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FWIW, the Coaching Changes Twitter account, again run by anonymous NCAA D1 assistant coaches, are putting Wojo as the 6th hottest seat now behind Minnesota, DePaul, Indiana, Iowa State and Arizona.
IMO, it's unlikely Arizona makes a move. Miller has just won three straight and they are set at 17-8. The rest I can definitely see changes occurring.
Dare I say that Wojo and Pitino have had similar tenure? Both 7+ years, two NCAAT appearances, losing conference record, consistently inconsistent and both "protected" due to background (Pitino - family name, Wojo - Duke association).
https://twitter.com/coachingchanges/status/1366132003511406606?s=21
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https://twitter.com/coachingchanges/status/1366132003511406606?s=21
If this Twitter account is actually run by insiders, that’s a pretty damning tweet.
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If this Twitter account is actually run by insiders, that’s a pretty damning tweet.
It’s been wrong way more that it’s been right but from time to time hit on some stuff
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Dude has never even spent time on a D1 sideline as a coach or played. At least Kim Anderson was a D1 assistant and he still failed. McCollum is not the answer. At least not until he went to a lower level school and won. Hell, look at Linc Darner, very good D2 coach and he struggled at the low major D1 level, much less the Big East.
Bad coach? I don’t think so, but he walked into a really nice situation at Murray St that Kennedy had set up. He’s kind of floundered once he moved past the Hoiberg player remnants
Kim Anderson was a unique situation. He was a former Bug 8 Player of The Year at Mizzou, and long time Norm Stewart assistant in the 89's and 90's with some good teams. He wanted the job a lot earlier and wasn't given the opportunity. They finally gave it to him but at the wrong time. It had been 12 years since he was in a D-1 sideline in a Power 5 league.
Anderson also inherited a mess, investigations, sanctions, snd he tried to piece things together in a short amount of time. They lost 13 scholarship players. He wasn't going to do a quick 3 seasons or less turnaround there at that time.
He of course knows ball and can coach ball. Wrong fit, wrong time. Unique situation.
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If this Twitter account is actually run by insiders, that’s a pretty damning tweet.
Several of the MU coaches follow it along with Broeker.
It’s main purpose is entertainment, but with a lot of truth behind the entertaining statements
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Who are you arguing with here? Sultan thinks Wojo should get fired, as do I.
Unfortunately, neither you, Sultan nor I make these decisions.
Question: Are you convinced he will get fired after this season?
I was debating with Fluffy over his statement that Marquette wasn’t firing Wojo after two, in theory, consecutive NCAAT appearances (while we don’t know the answer to that question, we also don’t know what would have happened if they lost to Hall and/or NCAAT game badly).
At this time, I believe there is a 60% chance there is a change after the season. It was higher before the UNC game, but the UNC win, IMO, delayed any decision. If we lose to DePaul again, it would almost be a guarantee IMO (for a change). If we beat DePaul and lose to Xavier, it can go either way and would likely need to see how the BET game(s) go. The team, despite beating Wisconsin, Creighton and UNC this year underperformed given its projections; we weren’t projected to be an NCAAT team, but we weren’t picked 10th in the BE, either.
I will say I believe our athletic department and president will do everything they can to justify and spin Wojo getting one more year for many reasons beat to death on here over the past few weeks. The excuses have already been presented and pushed: injuries, COVID, the schedule, the lack of fans, etc. However, the key will be the BOT. If they feel a change is needed, a change will happen. I guess it’ll come down to: what, if any, other jobs Wojo can get after the season that pay the same, or more; how well next year’s potential success can be “sold” to the powers that be; and, finally, if a change is required, how it is financially supported (which, again, if the BOT wants it, it will happen).
If Wojo comes back next year, and there is again no tournament and lack of optimism going into following season, not only is Wojo gone in ‘22, but Scholl might very well be on hot seat too.
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Brad Stevens. A recent Boston Globe article indicated that the Celtic players were not listening to their coach. May be in his own hot water... Would be a good get.
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You can’t really view it like that though. That basically ignores the body of work of the season. Plus, enough people predict the bracket that it’s easy to see we had a tournament resume.
MU was 8-10 in conference last season, that body of work is pretty flabby or it’s the body of that guy at the gym who only bench presses and doesn’t do leg workouts.
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Y'all can quit sportin' wood. BS ain't comin' back to college basketball, hey?
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Y'all can quit sportin' wood. BS ain't comin' back to college basketball, hey?
Agreed. No chance
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Brad Stevens. A recent Boston Globe article indicated that the Celtic players were not listening to their coach. May be in his own hot water... Would be a good get.
Kick the tires on Calipari. UK fan base is furious with him
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Brad Stevens. A recent Boston Globe article indicated that the Celtic players were not listening to their coach. May be in his own hot water... Would be a good get.
If Stevens is really on the h-seat he would get another NBA job in 5 secs.
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Kick the tires on Calipari. UK fan base is furious with him
If Calipari gets fired by UK the year we happen to need a new coach, I think he’d take MU’s call.
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Don’t look now, but Stan has LMU at 12-8 and in 3rd in the WCC. The team went 11-21 last year and lost seven players from the transition. LMU was projected to be 7th/8th this season. Good for Stan.
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I was debating with Fluffy over his statement that Marquette wasn’t firing Wojo after two, in theory, consecutive NCAAT appearances (while we don’t know the answer to that question, we also don’t know what would have happened if they lost to Hall and/or NCAAT game badly).
At this time, I believe there is a 60% chance there is a change after the season. It was higher before the UNC game, but the UNC win, IMO, delayed any decision. If we lose to DePaul again, it would almost be a guarantee IMO (for a change). If we beat DePaul and lose to Xavier, it can go either way and would likely need to see how the BET game(s) go. The team, despite beating Wisconsin, Creighton and UNC this year underperformed given its projections; we weren’t projected to be an NCAAT team, but we weren’t picked 10th in the BE, either.
I will say I believe our athletic department and president will do everything they can to justify and spin Wojo getting one more year for many reasons beat to death on here over the past few weeks. The excuses have already been presented and pushed: injuries, COVID, the schedule, the lack of fans, etc. However, the key will be the BOT. If they feel a change is needed, a change will happen. I guess it’ll come down to: what, if any, other jobs Wojo can get after the season that pay the same, or more; how well next year’s potential success can be “sold” to the powers that be; and, finally, if a change is required, how it is financially supported (which, again, if the BOT wants it, it will happen).
If Wojo comes back next year, and there is again no tournament and lack of optimism going into following season, not only is Wojo gone in ‘22, but Scholl might very well be on hot seat too.
The UNC game had nothing to do with it. Unless some donor has stepped up or there is pressure being applied by people who can actually apply it, the only way Wojo is not coaching at MU next year is if he leaves on his own.
I mean, where do you get this 60% figure from?
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MU was 8-10 in conference last season, that body of work is pretty flabby or it’s the body of that guy at the gym who only bench presses and doesn’t do leg workouts.
I’m not disagreeing. The comment was around if they were a tourney team. Based on their resume, they would have been. Not a good seed and I think they’d have gotten their doors blown off, but still in the tournament.
Don’t get me wrong, I hope Wojo is not our coach next year. But that doesn’t mean we have to change the facts of his tenure. I realize us being a tourney team last year is an opinion, but a very strongly supported one.
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At this time, I believe there is a 60% chance there is a change after the season. It was higher before the UNC game, but the UNC win, IMO, delayed any decision. If we lose to DePaul again, it would almost be a guarantee IMO (for a change).
I hope you are correct. If I was forced to bet, however, I'd bet you're incorrect.
I do not believe coaching change decisions go like this:
2/23 - We're gonna fire him!
2/24 - We're gonna keep him!
3/2 - We're gonna fire him!
The cool thing, my friend, is that soon enough we'll know.
We could know as soon as March 11, and certainly within a few weeks after that.
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The UNC game had nothing to do with it. Unless some donor has stepped up or there is pressure being applied by people who can actually apply it, the only way Wojo is not coaching at MU next year is if he leaves on his own.
I mean, where do you get this 60% figure from?
The UNC game was and is being used in justification of retaining Wojo. It is additional evidence for support to keep. The Butler/UNC games put some cold water on the heat being felt, but the hot seat is still very much there.
I think Scoop is underestimating the frustrations toward the MU basketball program right now from other stakeholders. I believe it is something to monitor in these last few games.
The absolute worst thing to happen, IMO, would be an announcement of Wojo returning, followed by the departure of any of our top players returning next year, for whatever reason. That would be a devastating blow that makes next year meaningless and and hopeless, and just delays a reboot another 12 months.
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Can we stop floating Brad Stevens? Never gonna happen. Thanks.
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The UNC game was and is being used in justification of retaining Wojo.
By whom?
If it's anybody who matters - Lovell, Scholl, any BOT member - please provide a link to support the claim.
If it's some Scoopers, who cares? It's meaningless.
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By whom?
If it's anybody who matters - Lovell, Scholl, any BOT member - please provide a link to support the claim.
If it's some Scoopers, who cares? It's meaningless.
Apparently he thinks Scholl and Lovell post here.
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The UNC game was and is being used in justification of retaining Wojo. It is additional evidence for support to keep. The Butler/UNC games put some cold water on the heat being felt, but the hot seat is still very much there.
I think Scoop is underestimating the frustrations toward the MU basketball program right now from other stakeholders. I believe it is something to monitor in these last few games.
The absolute worst thing to happen, IMO, would be an announcement of Wojo returning, followed by the departure of any of our top players returning next year, for whatever reason. That would be a devastating blow that makes next year meaningless and and hopeless, and just delays a reboot another 12 months.
You need to back up your statement about the 2 games. Sources?
Who are the "other stakeholders" and exactly how are their frustrations going to be monitored?
Is there any verifiable info regarding the BOT/Lovell/Scholl thoughts on Wojo's future? Why assume that they are trying to keep him, or, for that matter, planning to fire him?
Look, I really do get your frustration but you are getting hammered for making unsubstantiated statements. I'll close by saying that I think (as "in my opinion") that another year of Wojo may be disastrous. At least that we can agree upon.
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You need to back up your statement about the 2 games. Sources?
Who are the "other stakeholders" and exactly how are their frustrations going to be monitored?
Is there any verifiable info regarding the BOT/Lovell/Scholl thoughts on Wojo's future? Why assume that they are trying to keep him, or, for that matter, planning to fire him?
Look, I really do get your frustration but you are getting hammered for making unsubstantiated statements. I'll close by saying that I think (as "in my opinion") that another year of Wojo may be disastrous. At least that we can agree upon.
I agree. I think next year could be ugly. That is why I hope a change is made somehow this year. But I’m almost positive that’s not happening from Marquette’s action.
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I agree. I think next year could be ugly. That is why I hope a change is made somehow this year. But I’m almost positive that’s not happening from Marquette’s action.
Correct. He is not getting fired. People here are delusional
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Correct. He is not getting fired. People here are delusional
No he’s not getting fired but with Theres a more than decent chance he leaves with the amount of job shuffling that will happen this off season.
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Minnesota needs a coach.
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Prohm will have to reboot his coaching career in a mid-major again and maybe that’s where he’ll thrive. Hiring him after being fired from Iowa State doesn’t inspire much confidence
Truth is, Murray State guys have done okay moving up, not great. Mick Cronin has probably had the most success of the lot going back to Scott Edgar
Gottfried is close. Won his division of the SEC a couple times at Bama and made an E8 at a tough place to win in basketball. Then another 2 S16s at NC St. Cronin gets the nod for consistency, but they are heads and tails above the others
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Gottfried is close. Won his division of the SEC a couple times at Bama and made an E8 at a tough place to win in basketball. Then another 2 S16s at NC St. Cronin gets the nod for consistency, but they are heads and tails above the others
Given his proclivity for leaving messes, I was disinclined to include Gottfried but on the court, he’s definitely had some success
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MU was 8-10 in conference last season, that body of work is pretty flabby or it’s the body of that guy at the gym who only bench presses and doesn’t do leg workouts.
great analogy! I see that guy everyday. Can bench 325 for reps. Looks in the mirror a lot. Couldn’t squat 185 if a MU ncaa bid depended on it.
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Let’s actually talk names.
Here are some names of mid-major coaches with success. Would any of these guys “move the needle” for you?
Scott Nagy, Wright State
Joe Pasternack, UCSB
Pat Kelsey, Winthrop
Craig Smith, Utah State
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Let’s actually talk names.
Here are some names of mid-major coaches with success. Would any of these guys “move the needle” for you?
Scott Nagy, Wright State
Joe Pasternack, UCSB
Pat Kelsey, Winthrop
Craig Smith, Utah State
I like what I’ve seen from Craig Smith. I’d be excited with that hire. Dennis Gates from Cleveland State. would interest me too. He just doesn’t have as much of a track record.
I think Scott Nagy also seems to be a guy that wins wherever he goes.
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I like what I’ve seen from Craig Smith. I’d be excited with that hire. Dennis Gates from Cleveland State. would interest me too. He just doesn’t have as much of a track record.
I think Scott Nagy also seems to be a guy that wins wherever he goes.
I didn’t include Gates because I’ve seen him been discussed. Like his pedigree for sure
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I like what I’ve seen from Craig Smith. I’d be excited with that hire. Dennis Gates from Cleveland State. would interest me too. He just doesn’t have as much of a track record.
I think Scott Nagy also seems to be a guy that wins wherever he goes.
He's the Horizon League coach of the year for the 2nd straight year. His team is the current Regular Season Horizon League Champion. He also has had several successful assistant coaching positions including multiple Power 5 stops. He has more of a track record than several names in these threads.
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Let’s actually talk names.
Here are some names of mid-major coaches with success. Would any of these guys “move the needle” for you?
Scott Nagy, Wright State
Joe Pasternack, UCSB
Pat Kelsey, Winthrop
Craig Smith, Utah State
Nagy - Yes but he's a player's coach not a system coach. Some people have been begging for a system, he's more of a mad scientist that changes things up every year.
Pasternack - Yes. Wouldn't be my first call but would be on my short list. Successful mid-major coach, recent AC at Arizona so he has high major recruiting experience. No midwest ties (since his graduation from Indiana in the 80s) so he would need to set up new recruiting networks
Kelsey - No. Has been at Winthrop a long time and has only every recruited 2 3-stars there. Jump to high major recruiting would be too steep IMHO. Never gotten Winthrop inside top 100. Another player's coach, no system.
Smith - Would be on my short short list. Outside a known quantity like Beilein or Matta would be one of the top 2 or 3 available options. Only downside is that he has never recruited transfers well. I think transfers are the way of the future, he would need to learn.
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Gates wanted to come to MU as a player but was conditional with Quentin Richardson (Deane liked David Diggs). He (and Cordell and Q) spent a lot of HS days in the Old Gym with Wardle. Mu has been part of his world for a long time, getting the job would be a homecoming of sorts.
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Gates wanted to come to MU as a player but was conditional with Quentin Richardson (Deane liked David Diggs). He (and Cordell and Q) spent a lot of HS days in the Old Gym with Wardle. Mu has been part of his world for a long time, getting the job would be a homecoming of sorts.
Wow imagine being a coach that turned down one of the only bright spots DePaul's had in the past two decades.
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Smith certainly has an interesting, successful track record.
If one looks at his record alongside that of Beard when Beard was hired by TTech, pretty similar - except Smith has excelled for longer. Maybe he isn't as dynamic in interviews or doesn't have as many big names vouching for him as Beard did?
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Smith certainly has an interesting, successful track record.
If one looks at his record alongside that of Beard when Beard was hired by TTech, pretty similar - except Smith has excelled for longer. Maybe he isn't as dynamic in interviews or doesn't have as many big names vouching for him as Beard did?
Being dynamic in interviews does not seem to be a prerequisite for the Marquette job under this administration. Quite the opposite, actually. Wojo is as boring as it gets in interviews. A bland jock and a total dullard to boot.
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Speaking of Dennis Gates, one of his mentors, Leonard Hamilton, received a five year extension today from Florida St.
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Being dynamic in interviews does not seem to be a prerequisite for the Marquette job under this administration. Quite the opposite, actually. Wojo is as boring as it gets in interviews. A bland jock and a total dullard to boot.
You've interviewed him?
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Dennis Gates would get the energy flowing at MU. Sign me up
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Being dynamic in interviews does not seem to be a prerequisite for the Marquette job under this administration. Quite the opposite, actually. Wojo is as boring as it gets in interviews. A bland jock and a total dullard to boot.
You have absolutely no knowledge how good or bad Wojo is when he interviews for jobs. Zero.
But sure, there's not enough legit sh!t to rag on him for, so rip him for every possible thing. I hear he has too much belly-button lint.
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You have absolutely no knowledge how good or bad Wojo is when he interviews for jobs. Zero.
But sure, there's not enough legit sh!t to rag on him for, so rip him for every possible thing. I hear he has too much belly-button lint.
Ah, I thought you meant interviews as in post game press conferences, etc. You’re right, I don’t have any idea what Wojo’s like in job interviews, except that he makes good PowerPoints and is at least better than Cuonzo Martin.
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https://www.coachesdatabase.com/hot-seat-report/
Wojo not even listed as simmer.
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https://www.coachesdatabase.com/hot-seat-report/
Wojo not even listed as simmer.
Way to go, Scoopers
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Way to go, Scoopers
Dammit. If there were only crowds at FF and the administration heard the boos....
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https://www.coachesdatabase.com/hot-seat-report/
Wojo not even listed as simmer.
Well yeah now that he won at UNC! He was for sure gone before that
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Way to go, Scoopers
Yeah, if more than a dozen of us had rooted for Marquette to lose at the Dean Dome, Wojo would already be gone by now.
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https://www.coachesdatabase.com/hot-seat-report/
Wojo not even listed as simmer.
It's hard to believe that Shaka would get fired now, even if he suffers a Ja-level NCAAT humiliation, but it would be amazing if he is gone before Wojo is.
I wouldn't want any of the "on fire" guys, but there are a couple on the lower lists who would be intriguing if they become available and they still want to coach.
I mean, Mike Brey has been a pretty good coach. Miller ... Turgeon ... hmmm.
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Pitino is getting let go at the end of the year (confirmed) and is still listed in this article as “We’ve got our eye on you”.
Makes me question the validity of the entire piece.
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It's hard to believe that Shaka would get fired now, even if he suffers a Ja-level NCAAT humiliation, but it would be amazing if he is gone before Wojo is.
I wouldn't want any of the "on fire" guys, but there are a couple on the lower lists who would be intriguing if they become available and they still want to coach.
I mean, Mike Brey has been a pretty good coach. Miller ... Turgeon ... hmmm.
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The only reason Shaka is mentioned is because the AD there did not hire him.
Talking to a coach friend last night he thinks Hoiberg could go back to Iowa State. He is realizing Nebraska is a lost cause.
An intriguing possibility for DePaul: Orlando Antigua. His record at South Florida as unimpressive but he has ties to the AD through his days at UK and he is now down the road in Champaign. It's highly likely it will be someone with UK ties.
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Wow imagine being a coach that turned down one of the only bright spots DePaul's had in the past two decades.
No, Mike Deane only wanted Gates if he came with Q. MU battled Kansas for the Q and looked to be winning when Q said no to Kansas. It appeared like MU would get Cordell, Gates and Q...until DePaul dropped the bag.
Cordell would team up wit Jon Harris, Olouma Nmamaka & David Diggs to lead MU back to the NCAA in 2002. From there MU would go on to appear in 10 of 12 NCAAs...all because of the foundation Mike Deane built.
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Wow imagine being a coach that turned down one of the only bright spots DePaul's had in the past two decades.
DePaul or Berkeley and a degree from there? Tough one.
Gates played college basketball at California, where he was a two-time first-team All-Academic selection in the Pac-10, having graduated in three years, playing his senior season as a master's degree candidate.[2][3] Gates was also a member of Cal's 2002 NCAA Tournament team.
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https://www.coachesdatabase.com/hot-seat-report/
Wojo not even listed as simmer.
Scoop
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/34608bf72bd12e46e508bb23f11f3231/tenor.gif?itemid=9037575)
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And another coaching related twitter handle that Mike Broeker, Ben Steele and Justin Gainey all follow (plus Goodman, Dauster & Parrish) have him as plenty warm.
We'll see who is most dialed in, come April.
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Speaking of Dennis Gates, one of his mentors, Leonard Hamilton, received a five year extension today from Florida St.
My favorite fact about Hamilton.
He was a 12 year assistant for Joe B. Hall at Kentucky. He was on the bench when Hall's Kentucky team won the national championship over a pre-Coach K Duke team in 1978.
Outside of his one year in the NBA, he has been a college assistant or head coach for 50 years!
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No, Mike Deane only wanted Gates if he came with Q. MU battled Kansas for the Q and looked to be winning when Q said no to Kansas. It appeared like MU would get Cordell, Gates and Q...until DePaul dropped the bag.
The way Pat Kennedy threw around money would have made Sean Miller blush.
Q, Bobby Simmons and Lance Johnson -- ka-ching!
And yet DePaul's only postseason win during that trio's 3 years together was a first-round NIT victory over KO's mighty Northwestern squad.
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My favorite fact about Hamilton.
He was a 12 year assistant for Joe B. Hall at Kentucky. He was on the bench when Hall's Kentucky team won the national championship over a pre-Coach K Duke team in 1978.
Outside of his one year in the NBA, he has been a college assistant or head coach for 50 years!
Gameday did a nice 5 minute segment on Leonard Hamilton this past weekend:
https://twitter.com/CollegeGameDay/status/1365729266336464899?s=19
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My favorite fact about Hamilton.
He was a 12 year assistant for Joe B. Hall at Kentucky. He was on the bench when Hall's Kentucky team won the national championship over a pre-Coach K Duke team in 1978.
Outside of his one year in the NBA, he has been a college assistant or head coach for 50 years!
I remember their Elite 8 run where I learned he’s actually 15 years older than I thought he was.
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He's the Horizon League coach of the year for the 2nd straight year. His team is the current Regular Season Horizon League Champion. He also has had several successful assistant coaching positions including multiple Power 5 stops. He has more of a track record than several names in these threads.
Gates to me seems like a great combo of pedigree, some proof of concept at the head coaching level, and high upside. I'd be very happy if he was coaching MU.
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The way Pat Kennedy threw around money would have made Sean Miller blush.
Q, Bobby Simmons and Lance Johnson -- ka-ching!
And yet DePaul's only postseason win during that trio's 3 years together was a first-round NIT victory over KO's mighty Northwestern squad.
He actually came to mind when someone asked me an opinion about Wojo a few years ago. Kennedy certainly wins the title of doing less with more.
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Gates to me seems like a great combo of pedigree, some proof of concept at the head coaching level, and high upside. I'd be very happy if he was coaching MU.
MU alum as grad assistant, hey?
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He actually came to mind when someone asked me an opinion about Wojo a few years ago. Kennedy certainly wins the title of doing less with more.
To our knowledge, Wojo doesn't hand sacks of money to his recruits.
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To our knowledge, Wojo doesn't hand sacks of money to his recruits.
Sack agnostic. I didn't say they were twins.
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Sack agnostic. I didn't say they were twins.
Fair enough.
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https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-loyola-ramblers-why-porter-moser-stayed-20191010-3emapjmq4bfflgdwi2xjecwg24-story.html
As much as I would like to see Moser at Marquette, this 2019 article from the Chicago Tribune makes that seem highly unlikely.
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https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-loyola-ramblers-why-porter-moser-stayed-20191010-3emapjmq4bfflgdwi2xjecwg24-story.html
As much as I would like to see Moser at Marquette, this article from the Chicago Tribune makes that seem highly unlikely.
Yeah if he were to change I'd place money it's to Depaul. But one tiny advantage we may have over SJU is if he does want to stay in the northern burbs of Chicago that's not a horrifically worse commute to MU than fighting traffic to get to Loyola so he wouldn't have to necessarily leave so much as deal with a longer distance commute but roughly same time.
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Yeah if he were to change I'd place money it's to Depaul. But one tiny advantage we may have over SJU is if he does want to stay in the northern burbs of Chicago that's not a horrifically worse commute to MU than fighting traffic to get to Loyola so he wouldn't have to necessarily leave so much as deal with a longer distance commute but roughly same time.
He can take the El to work now.
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Personally, Moser wouldn't be in my top 10 coaching candidates if we had a vacancy. Maybe in my top 15-20.
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And another coaching related twitter handle that Mike Broeker, Ben Steele and Justin Gainey all follow (plus Goodman, Dauster & Parrish) have him as plenty warm.
We'll see who is most dialed in, come April.
what's the handle? Or are you referring to @CoachingChanges?
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He can take the El to work now.
I just assumed he lived on the north shore because he was golfing in libertyville. That's my bad if he doesn't.
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what's the handle? Or are you referring to @CoachingChanges?
yes
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Personally, Moser wouldn't be in my top 10 coaching candidates if we had a vacancy. Maybe in my top 15-20.
I also would prefer a coach who has experience recruiting P6-level athletes to his school.
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I just assumed he lived on the north shore because he was golfing in libertyville. That's my bad if he doesn't.
The El goes to the North Shore. He literally lives two blocks from the station and it drops him off at the Gentile. Post-COVID, we would all love that commute.
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The El goes to the North Shore. He literally lives two blocks from the station and it drops him off at the Gentile. Post-COVID, would all love that commute.
I always forget the purple goes out there. For some reason I permanently think it stops in Evanston.
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Personally, Moser wouldn't be in my top 10 coaching candidates if we had a vacancy. Maybe in my top 15-20.
There are few jobs he would be interested in. MU might be one of them is my guess on the coconut wire. He is a defensive coach (#1 in country), close to Chicago AAU, and has a roster of JUCO and 4-year transfers. He has balanced classes and rebuilt a program from crapland, and built back quickly from a F4. And there might be a Jesuit discount on the buy-out.
He is very Catholic and he wants a BE job at some time. And the Rick ties are very strong with him. Question is school for his kids.
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Moser had a Final Four (yeah, it was an unusual set of circumstances, but still...) , has his team ranked and they play both ends of the floor very well. I like that they look so good on the court. I'm not getting the concerns regarding recruiting P6 prospects. Haven't many other mid major coaches adjusted quickly after getting a P6 position?
There has been talk about his long, relatively unproductive years yet some here then talk about the need for patience over years for coaches to grow into a higher level of performance. Seems to me this is a catch 22. Here and now, the guy looks good to me and has for several years.
Its very likely a moot point anyway after reading that article. I can see him doing well at DePaul if he wants that job.
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There are few jobs he would be interested in. MU might be one of them is my guess on the coconut wire. He is a defensive coach (#1 in country), close to Chicago AAU, and has a roster of JUCO and 4-year transfers. He has balanced classes and rebuilt a program from crapland, and built back quickly from a F4. And there might be a Jesuit discount on the buy-out.
He is very Catholic and he wants a BE job at some time. And the Rick ties are very strong with him. Question is school for his kids.
I’m more bullish on him than I was after 2018 as he has stacked success on top of that season. He has a very veteran team, so depending on who comes back next year, we can learn more about the staying power of Loyola in the Valley.
He took Loyola from the Horizon to the Valley, a step up (especially for them since they didn’t have a lot of Horizon success) and while they benefited from Wichita State moving on, they’ve filled the void nicely. The league is not as good as it was a decade ago for sure but it’s still impressive his program has risen to the top.
Stylistically, his teams are grinders. That’s a definite fear for me. There could be a lot of ugly basketball as he implements his program. I’m talking nights where 50 is a big mountain for the team to climb in regards to scoring. I honestly think he’d be the front runner given his connections as a Majerus assistant.
I don’t know how much his ties to Chicago basketball matter but I’m sure some would find that appealing.
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No, Mike Deane only wanted Gates if he came with Q. MU battled Kansas for the Q and looked to be winning when Q said no to Kansas. It appeared like MU would get Cordell, Gates and Q...until DePaul dropped the bag.
Cordell would team up wit Jon Harris, Olouma Nmamaka & David Diggs to lead MU back to the NCAA in 2002. From there MU would go on to appear in 10 of 12 NCAAs...all because of the foundation Mike Deane built.
the foundation Deane built? Liked him as a ‘coach’. (Wojo could use a Mike Deane-type) As a recruiter, Deane not so good. But, I’ll give him that he did win 100 games over 5 seasons...bad trend, however...and he was hilarious at the centennial.
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There are few jobs he would be interested in. MU might be one of them is my guess on the coconut wire. He is a defensive coach (#1 in country), close to Chicago AAU, and has a roster of JUCO and 4-year transfers. He has balanced classes and rebuilt a program from crapland, and built back quickly from a F4. And there might be a Jesuit discount on the buy-out.
He is very Catholic and he wants a BE job at some time. And the Rick ties are very strong with him. Question is school for his kids.
What the hell is "the coconut wire"?
Anyway, really enjoyed your post. The thing I am having trouble understanding is the fear that he cannot recruit on a P6 level. If so, hire an assistant from a P6 school to help get through the learning stage. I'm much more concerned at getting a coach who has proven that he can actually, well, COACH.
If we go the P6 assistant from another school to head coach at Marquette we could get a really good recruiter with absolutely no head coaching experience. Oh wait, wait! We've already done that.
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Personally, Moser wouldn't be in my top 10 coaching candidates if we had a vacancy. Maybe in my top 15-20.
Who's in your Top 10? (Assuming most are realistic)
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What the hell is "the coconut wire"?
Anyway, really enjoyed your post. The thing I am having trouble understanding is the fear that he cannot recruit on a P6 level. If so, hire an assistant from a P6 school to help get through the learning stage. I'm much more concerned at getting a coach who has proven that he can actually, well, COACH.
If we go the P6 assistant from another school to head coach at Marquette we could get a really good recruiter with absolutely no head coaching experience. Oh wait, wait! We've already done that.
"Coconut wireless" is word of mouth gossip. The "coconut wire" is a take on the digital world.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3fterm=Coconut%2bwireless&=true
Porter recruits like Rick did and teaches them up. No different than Brad Stevens did at Butler (I was interested to hear that Jordan's freshman class was the highest rated in Butler's history).
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Moser had a Final Four (yeah, it was an unusual set of circumstances, but still...) , has his team ranked and they play both ends of the floor very well. I like that they look so good on the court.
Have you watched them?
Stylistically, his teams are grinders. That’s a definite fear for me. There could be a lot of ugly basketball as he implements his program. I’m talking nights where 50 is a big mountain for the team to climb in regards to scoring.
He is an excellent defensive coach, and his teams are very disciplined in that regard, but he’s had 1 team at Loyola in the top 200 in scoring, and that was the FF team at 175. They can be downright brutal, and that’s talking about a “good” team this year that is ranked. They don’t look good on the offensive end. Disciplined without a bunch of TOs? Sure. But it’s not usually pretty.
The risk with teams like that is lesser teams can stay in the game cause you’re rarely blowing people out cause you’re not scoring enough. Outside of Bennett’s very best teams, it happens with UVA plenty.
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Have you watched them?
He is an excellent defensive coach, and his teams are very disciplined in that regard, but he’s had 1 team at Loyola in the top 200 in scoring, and that was the FF team at 175. They can be downright brutal, and that’s talking about a “good” team this year that is ranked. They don’t look good on the offensive end. Disciplined without a bunch of TOs? Sure. But it’s not usually pretty.
The risk with teams like that is lesser teams can stay in the game cause you’re rarely blowing people out cause you’re not scoring enough. Outside of Bennett’s very best teams, it happens with UVA plenty.
Yup. Majerus lost a game at SLU 49-20 to George Washington. We’ve seen low tempo Badger teams score 32 points in a tournament game. Winning cures a lot of that but you’d have to understand those types of games could always be lurking
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Have you watched them?
He is an excellent defensive coach, and his teams are very disciplined in that regard, but he’s had 1 team at Loyola in the top 200 in scoring, and that was the FF team at 175. They can be downright brutal, and that’s talking about a “good” team this year that is ranked. They don’t look good on the offensive end. Disciplined without a bunch of TOs? Sure. But it’s not usually pretty.
The risk with teams like that is lesser teams can stay in the game cause you’re rarely blowing people out cause you’re not scoring enough. Outside of Bennett’s very best teams, it happens with UVA plenty.
His current team on O is 68th. MU fans would have to get used to his style of play. Wojo is a much better offensive coach but his D scheme is bad. ACC Finesse doesn't play in the adjustment-driven BE.
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For the "if we fire Wojo, we're gonna lose our players" crowd:
First off, you just don't let that affect your willingness to make a coaching change. At all. Second, I was with someone close with Cam Marotta this weekend, they talk every week. The topic of MUBB came up, as we were getting our asses kicked by UCONN, and it was mentioned that "half the players can't stand Wojo". Which surprised me, since it seemed like despite our awful season, there was still buy-in from guys. I experienced that firsthand. But it was passed along that the postgame videos after a road win, North Carolina win, are always more performative. Don't shoot the messenger. But I don't think a change would make as much of a difference there as people think.
Would presumably cost us Jonas Aidoo and Stevie Mitchell, which would be a bummer, but at this point that's putting a band-aid on a bullet wound. The problems are systemic and can only be fixed with a coaching change: player departures be damned.
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For the "if we fire Wojo, we're gonna lose our players" crowd:
First off, you just don't let that affect your willingness to make a coaching change. At all. Second, I was with someone close with Cam Marotta this weekend, they talk every week. The topic of MUBB came up, as we were getting our asses kicked by UCONN, and it was mentioned that "half the players can't stand Wojo". Which surprised me, since it seemed like despite our awful season, there was still buy-in from guys. I experienced that firsthand. But it was passed along that the postgame videos after a road win, North Carolina win, are always more performative. Don't shoot the messenger. But I don't think a change would make as much of a difference there as people think.
Would presumably cost us Jonas Aidoo and Stevie Mitchell, which would be a bummer, but at this point that's putting a band-aid on a bullet wound. The problems are systemic and can only be fixed with a coaching change: player departures be damned.
I’m going to choose to believe everything in this post because it basically confirms everything I’ve thought about Wojo and it makes the condescending know-nothing “good guy” Scoopers look like morons.
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I’m going to choose to believe everything in this post because it basically confirms everything I’ve thought about Wojo and it makes the condescending know-nothing “good guy” Scoopers look like morons.
He can still be a good guy, but just an ineffective coach and leader which would not endear itself after awhile to top tier very competitive athletes who love to win
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For the "if we fire Wojo, we're gonna lose our players" crowd:
First off, you just don't let that affect your willingness to make a coaching change. At all. Second, I was with someone close with Cam Marotta this weekend, they talk every week. The topic of MUBB came up, as we were getting our asses kicked by UCONN, and it was mentioned that "half the players can't stand Wojo". Which surprised me, since it seemed like despite our awful season, there was still buy-in from guys. I experienced that firsthand. But it was passed along that the postgame videos after a road win, North Carolina win, are always more performative. Don't shoot the messenger. But I don't think a change would make as much of a difference there as people think.
Would presumably cost us Jonas Aidoo and Stevie Mitchell, which would be a bummer, but at this point that's putting a band-aid on a bullet wound. The problems are systemic and can only be fixed with a coaching change: player departures be damned.
If you ever played on any kind of team you know it's not unusual for half the players to hate the coach. It's a normal team dynamic, and not indicative of anything. The players obviously still have buy in to Wojo.
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If you ever played on any kind of team you know it's not unusual for half the players to hate the coach. It's a normal team dynamic, and not indicative of anything. The players obviously still have buy in to Wojo.
Is it though?
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I’m not reading too much into the “half the players can’t stand wojo” comment. Over half the players have had abysmal seasons and are hardly getting in the games. Would guess those are the ones who can’t stand him. The fact that the ones who likely “can’t stand” him aren’t even high major players to begin with is the bigger problem, IMO.
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Is it though?
Yes it is. It doesn't mean the team is dysfunctional. As s coach you are not going to make everyone happy, nor should you. Having said that Wojo needs to go,
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Yes it is. It doesn't mean the team is dysfunctional. As s coach you are not going to make everyone happy, nor should you. Having said that Wojo needs to go,
There’s a difference between players being unhappy with their roles and hating the coach.
Although then again, that probably goes hand in hand on a grossly underachieving team like
MU this year.
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There’s a difference between players being unhappy with their roles and hating the coach.
Although then again, that probably goes hand in hand on a grossly underachieving team like
MU this year.
Agree
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This is a big nothingburger. Happens on every team.
It's more concerning if there are issues between players. We've seen what that does.
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I’m not reading too much into the “half the players can’t stand wojo” comment. Over half the players have had abysmal seasons and are hardly getting in the games. Would guess those are the ones who can’t stand him. The fact that the ones who likely “can’t stand” him aren’t even high major players to begin with is the bigger problem, IMO.
Yes agree. If you are going to recruit one or two and dones then you have to recruit a team to go with them. The quality depth on this team is lacking and that's the problem.
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For the "if we fire Wojo, we're gonna lose our players" crowd:
First off, you just don't let that affect your willingness to make a coaching change. At all. Second, I was with someone close with Cam Marotta this weekend, they talk every week. The topic of MUBB came up, as we were getting our asses kicked by UCONN, and it was mentioned that "half the players can't stand Wojo". Which surprised me, since it seemed like despite our awful season, there was still buy-in from guys. I experienced that firsthand. But it was passed along that the postgame videos after a road win, North Carolina win, are always more performative. Don't shoot the messenger. But I don't think a change would make as much of a difference there as people think.
Would presumably cost us Jonas Aidoo and Stevie Mitchell, which would be a bummer, but at this point that's putting a band-aid on a bullet wound. The problems are systemic and can only be fixed with a coaching change: player departures be damned.
I don’t find this hard to believe whatsoever. I don’t see Wojo as some magnetic, likable personality at all. Now of course I don’t see him behind closed doors so I could be off base.
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So a guy who got $0.00 in scholarship money to be a full time rag doll for the scholarship players under Wojo for 4 years and then decided he liked Wojo enough through all of that to become his GA is going around telling his buddies how much the team absolutely despises Wojo?
I'm picking up what you're putting down for sure.
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So a guy who got $0.00 in scholarship money to be a full time rag doll for the scholarship players under Wojo for 4 years and then decided he liked Wojo enough through all of that to become his GA is going around telling his buddies how much the team absolutely despises Wojo?
I'm picking up what you're putting down for sure.
FWIW, I’m pretty sure Cam would have taken the same path if it was Buzz, Crean, or Mike Deane at the helm. He is born and bred Marquette running through his veins
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FWIW, I’m pretty sure Cam would have taken the same path if it was Buzz, Crean, or Mike Deane at the helm. He is born and bred Marquette running through his veins
I agree, which is why I find it even harder to believe he’s telling company secrets that the team hates their coach.
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So a guy who got $0.00 in scholarship money to be a full time rag doll for the scholarship players under Wojo for 4 years and then decided he liked Wojo enough through all of that to become his GA is going around telling his buddies how much the team absolutely despises Wojo?
I'm picking up what you're putting down for sure.
Yeah, I'd 100 percent believe the statement that Wojo isn't universally beloved by his players. That's probably true for every coach.
I very much doubt Cam Marotta is going around telling that to randos.
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I’m not reading too much into the “half the players can’t stand wojo” comment. Over half the players have had abysmal seasons and are hardly getting in the games. Would guess those are the ones who can’t stand him. The fact that the ones who likely “can’t stand” him aren’t even high major players to begin with is the bigger problem, IMO.
Bit of any oxymoron here, no? Conflating fact with guesses and likelihood? Then again that's Message Board 101.
Could it be that the players having "abysmal" seasons blame, in part, the coaching that has played an integral role in said abysmal season?
I'm not saying the entire team despises Wojo, but I was taken aback that a good number have genuine disdain for him as a coach: which lends to the opinion that this team wouldn't unanimously jump ship if he was ousted.
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So a guy who got $0.00 in scholarship money to be a full time rag doll for the scholarship players under Wojo for 4 years and then decided he liked Wojo enough through all of that to become his GA is going around telling his buddies how much the team absolutely despises Wojo?
I'm picking up what you're putting down for sure.
I won't attempt to get into his mindset here, but if his endgame is to get into college coaching, being a GA for his alma mater/former coach is almost always someone's best bet. I went to grade and high school and am good friends with Taylor Stormberg who walked on at Creighton years ago. He had an offer and was going to GA with McDermott had he stayed in basketball. I had a buddy who didn't enjoy student managing for Wojo at the tail end of his time at MU: and had he not decided to leave basketball entirely, would have gone the same route as Danny Mads and Cam solely out of practicality and convenience.
And simply because he played/works for a guy doesn't mean he can't be critical or honest about the current state of affairs. This isn't North Korea...that we know.
This person and Cam are really close. I think he's able to give an honest assessment of what's going on to someone he's closer with than his boss.
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I won't attempt to get into his mindset here, but if his endgame is to get into college coaching, being a GA for his alma mater/former coach is almost always someone's best bet. I went to grade and high school and am good friends with Taylor Stormberg who walked on at Creighton years ago. He had an offer and was going to GA with McDermott had he stayed in basketball. I had a buddy who didn't enjoy student managing for Wojo at the tail end of his time at MU: and had he not decided to leave basketball entirely, would have gone the same route as Danny Mads and Cam solely out of practicality and convenience.
And simply because he played/works for a guy doesn't mean he can't be critical or honest about the current state of affairs. This isn't North Korea...that we know.
This person and Cam are really close. I think he's able to give an honest assessment of what's going on to someone he's closer with than his boss.
Yeah and if his endgame is to get into college coaching he’s probably not going to be doing himself any favors by being a GA that is telling people who are going to let it get on MUScoop how much the players he’s working with hate his boss.
I don’t doubt that there are some players who don’t agree with how Wojo has treated them. That’s life with uber competitive athletes. They want to win and they want to play. The numbers game makes it impossible for everyone to achieve both of those things. Some kids will be unhappy. This is hardly earth shattering for Marquette. We were supposed to have a mass exodus when the Hausers left because everyone hated Wojo then too. Turned out only the Hausers left.
I’m also not buying that a bunch of 18-22 year old hyper competitive dudes are sitting around the locker room sulking after a road win and then some social media intern walks in and is like, “okay guys, Wojo is on his way to the locker room, let’s get a good one for the gram!” And the team’s like “Oh yeah you got it Timmy! Where’s my water bottle to spray the guy I hate?!” If it were me and I hated Wojo and I was asked to act up fake excitement, there’s 0.00% chance of that happening. But maybe this team is different.
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Yeah and if his endgame is to get into college coaching he’s probably not going to be doing himself any favors by being a GA that is telling people who are going to let it get on MUScoop how much the players he’s working with hate his boss.
Isn’t it a fairly common (lazy) rebuttal here that MUScoop is an entirely inconsequential platform and no one with any connection to or decision making ability in or around the program is even aware of its existence? This statement would not be consistent with that fact pattern. You need to choose one.
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Yeah and if his endgame is to get into college coaching he’s probably not going to be doing himself any favors by being a GA that is telling people who are going to let it get on MUScoop how much the players he’s working with hate his boss.
I don’t doubt that there are some players who don’t agree with how Wojo has treated them. That’s life with uber competitive athletes. They want to win and they want to play. The numbers game makes it impossible for everyone to achieve both of those things. Some kids will be unhappy. This is hardly earth shattering for Marquette. We were supposed to have a mass exodus when the Hausers left because everyone hated Wojo then too. Turned out only the Hausers left.
I’m also not buying that a bunch of 18-22 year old hyper competitive dudes are sitting around the locker room sulking after a road win and then some social media intern walks in and is like, “okay guys, Wojo is on his way to the locker room, let’s get a good one for the gram!” And the team’s like “Oh yeah you got it Timmy! Where’s my water bottle to spray the guy I hate?!” If it were me and I hated Wojo and I was asked to act up fake excitement, there’s 0.00% chance of that happening. But maybe this team is different.
I don't think passing comments along to a friend is some indictment on Cam himself. The fact that this game of telephone made it to me and from me to Scoop is more a comment on me as a person than it is Cam. I can guarantee you when it was shared it wasn't with the foresight "man this is gonna whip MUScoop into a frenzy in two weeks". People are fed up with the program and willing to further share that kind of secondhand news.
Just because no one else immediately left when Sam and Joey left doesn't mean things were all rainbows and sunshine. Guys were convinced to stay another season by people not named Steve Wojciechowski. Just months later, Ed Morrow literally told Wojo "unnatural carnal knowledge you" in the middle of a practice during the season, left the gym, and didn't say another word to the coaching staff. Brendan Bailey turned down an opportunity for a starring role on this team when everyone knew his pro prospects were nonexistent. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe he's even playing basketball right now. Could be because he's a new father.
Again, don't shoot the messenger. I don't know the dynamics of their postgame interactions more than what was shared with me. But simply a call for the crowd on here, who thinks because Wojo is giving spirited high fives that show up on Instagram that guys would crawl through broken glass for him, to pump the brakes.
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I’m also not buying that a bunch of 18-22 year old hyper competitive dudes are sitting around the locker room sulking after a road win and then some social media intern walks in and is like, “okay guys, Wojo is on his way to the locker room, let’s get a good one for the gram!” And the team’s like “Oh yeah you got it Timmy! Where’s my water bottle to spray the guy I hate?!” If it were me and I hated Wojo and I was asked to act up fake excitement, there’s 0.00% chance of that happening. But maybe this team is different.
Have you ever had teammates on a team you didn’t particularly loved? I played soccer with a dude that was a complete douche that I was often at odds with. But one time he hit me with a perfect cross that I angled into a goal for a late winner. I tackled him in a celebration that was as joyous and full of happy emotion as celebrating a huge Marquette win with a close friend. The joy of winning can temporarily buffer less than positive feelings.
So a big locker room celebration doesn’t have to mean they love the guy. Sometimes you just put your negative emotions aside and celebrate a win cause it’s fun and feels good. They don’t hate him to the level of not trying or transferring mid season. So it’s not crazy to think they can put stuff aside in certain moments
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As somebody who wants Wojo fired, I sure hope the BOT hears that Cam Marotta told somebody who told somebody who told Scoop that a bunch of unnamed Marquette players, who might or might not be any good at basketball, hate Wojo.
Because if that won’t get him fired, nothing will!
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Also, regarding the narrative that has dominated this board for months on end, that poor little Marquette can't afford a buyout for Wojo, here's an article from Urban Milwaukee today:
https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2021/03/01/higher-education-will-mu-become-marquette-tech/
Here are the first two paragraphs:
"Marquette University has been rocked with controversy over budget cuts and faculty layoffs. The impact of COVID-19 and a projected decline in future student enrollment due to a declining birthrate have been used to justify dramatic cuts, as a story published by Urban Milwaukee reported. Faculty layoffs for next school year were projected to be as high as 225. Today the number has dropped to 39, but the changes may be more sweeping than the mere number of faculty.
The Marquette community is beginning to believe the justifications for budget cuts just don’t add up. Marquette will run a budget surplus next year, perhaps greater than the proposed cuts. Critics believe Marquette’s leadership is using the crisis as an opportunity to restructure the university while blaming the pandemic."
So...maybe we've been wrong this whole time.
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Not that it means much but a HS Head Coach In the area I was talking to today said he was not basing this on anything but said he would not be surprised if Wojo ended up at Boston College and Beilein ended up at Marquette he was guessing and just making conversation.
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I’m not reading too much into the “half the players can’t stand wojo” comment. Over half the players have had abysmal seasons and are hardly getting in the games. Would guess those are the ones who can’t stand him. The fact that the ones who likely “can’t stand” him aren’t even high major players to begin with is the bigger problem, IMO.
“Half the xxx” is way too overused a phrase for me to take it seriously.
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Guys were convinced to stay another season by people not named Steve Wojciechowski.
This is accurate. But again, not unusual for a guy to have a stronger bond with an assistant than the HC.
Stan did a lot of the heavy lifting to keep that group together following the collapse.
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Also, regarding the narrative that has dominated this board for months on end, that poor little Marquette can't afford a buyout for Wojo, here's an article from Urban Milwaukee today:
https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2021/03/01/higher-education-will-mu-become-marquette-tech/
Here are the first two paragraphs:
"Marquette University has been rocked with controversy over budget cuts and faculty layoffs. The impact of COVID-19 and a projected decline in future student enrollment due to a declining birthrate have been used to justify dramatic cuts, as a story published by Urban Milwaukee reported. Faculty layoffs for next school year were projected to be as high as 225. Today the number has dropped to 39, but the changes may be more sweeping than the mere number of faculty.
The Marquette community is beginning to believe the justifications for budget cuts just don’t add up. Marquette will run a budget surplus next year, perhaps greater than the proposed cuts. Critics believe Marquette’s leadership is using the crisis as an opportunity to restructure the university while blaming the pandemic."
So...maybe we've been wrong this whole time.
So because an article said that some people "think that justifications for budget cuts just don't add up"...with no proof that they don't add up...doesn't seem like the best piece of evidence.
Enrollment has been down for years. COVID happened. The population bubble bursting in the near future is still a thing. There's just a population of people in higher education that don't want to accept these realities and are holding on to how things have always been for dear life.
Budget surplus? These people are dreaming.
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So because an article said that some people "think that justifications for budget cuts just don't add up"...with no proof that they don't add up...doesn't seem like the best piece of evidence.
Enrollment has been down for years. COVID happened. The population bubble bursting in the near future is still a thing. There's just a population of people in higher education that don't want to accept these realities and are holding on to how things have always been for dear life.
Budget surplus? These people are dreaming.
The "budget surplus" language comes from a surprise 3% margin instituted by the board of trustees in the fall. Prior, they had announced cuts were coming, and I believe Lovell used the language shrinking the university by 20%. With this in mind, the trustees required a new $12 million working margin with no specific earmarks, just a cushion.
That along with the shifting explanations--first, changing demographics; then, COVID; now, general direction of the university--has made people, namely faculty and staff, suspicious (along with an unavoidable crowd that would be mad at cuts no matter what).
I don't necessarily believe the university has ulterior motives, and, frankly, I give them credit for not trying to grow their way out of a problem. The writing was on the wall. The acceptance rates and total applications aren't there for Marquette to be the type of academic institution it wants to be with the number of students it was carrying.
And this is where it comes back to Wojo, or his successor. Were Marquette to get a big run or two from the basketball team, those applications (and academic credentials) would spike. This is the surest sign that academia is in a bad place. I like Wojo. I like the program he runs. I suspect the players like him a lot. I think they give him another year, but if they have the right guy in mind and things line-up, make it happen.
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Were Marquette to get a big run or two from the basketball team, those applications (and academic credentials) would spike. This is the surest sign that academia is in a bad place. I like Wojo. I like the program he runs. I suspect the players like him a lot. I think they give him another year, but if they have the right guy in mind and things line-up, make it happen.
This is interesting to me. Does anyone know where I can find historical data on how many applications/admissions Marquette had each year? I'd like to see how it correlates to the success of the basketball team.
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This is interesting to me. Does anyone know where I can find historical data on how many applications/admissions Marquette had each year? I'd like to see how it correlates to the success of the basketball team.
I know for sure there was a massive application spike after the Wade FF run, which in turn led to an increase in USNWR rankings. If they want an increase in applications, get the hoops team right. It will cost the University as a whole way more than the buyout to let this fester any longer.
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Pretty sure a final four is a considerable spike in applications and such whereas other runs aren't exactly eye popping.
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I know for sure there was a massive application spike after the Wade FF run, which in turn led to an increase in USNWR rankings. If they want an increase in applications, get the hoops team right. It will cost the University as a whole way more than the buyout to let this fester any longer.
Count me in that Final Four spike haha.
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Pretty sure a final four is a considerable spike in applications and such whereas other runs aren't exactly eye popping.
Yea, did we see any increase from the Buzz Sweet 16/Elite 8 runs? I’m sure it’s a nice little bump, but I don’t know if it’s something that can overcome the headwinds we are seeing now.
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This is interesting to me. Does anyone know where I can find historical data on how many applications/admissions Marquette had each year? I'd like to see how it correlates to the success of the basketball team.
For my money, best source for academic info: https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/
Not sure about historical figures; maybe IPEDS, https://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/
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Also, regarding the narrative that has dominated this board for months on end, that poor little Marquette can't afford a buyout for Wojo, here's an article from Urban Milwaukee today:
https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2021/03/01/higher-education-will-mu-become-marquette-tech/
Here are the first two paragraphs:
"Marquette University has been rocked with controversy over budget cuts and faculty layoffs. The impact of COVID-19 and a projected decline in future student enrollment due to a declining birthrate have been used to justify dramatic cuts, as a story published by Urban Milwaukee reported. Faculty layoffs for next school year were projected to be as high as 225. Today the number has dropped to 39, but the changes may be more sweeping than the mere number of faculty.
The Marquette community is beginning to believe the justifications for budget cuts just don’t add up. Marquette will run a budget surplus next year, perhaps greater than the proposed cuts. Critics believe Marquette’s leadership is using the crisis as an opportunity to restructure the university while blaming the pandemic."
So...maybe we've been wrong this whole time.
Hoo new? Covid blamed for everything. Wear have wee herd dat befour, hey?
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@CoachingChanges is alluding to a major Big East coaching change that is on the way (and they specifically say, "and its not the loser you are thinking of at this point (Not Wojo,......yet)". Again, the account is run by a number of D1 assistant coaches and/or former head coaches.
Some of the other accounts are referencing Cooley might be on the move. Would he take Boston College (he was a former assistant coach there a number of years ago)? Seems foolish since he turned down Michigan. Did BC somehow find a trunk of cash to help turn around its basketball program (in an era where so many schools are struggling financially and with enrollments)? Would Providence then look to grab Richard Pitino (alum) in his place?
Regardless, I anticipate a LOT of movement in the next four weeks, whether or not Marquette is involved or not. Last year gave many coaches an extra year, and many other programs are using this transition year to make moves. Will be fun to follow.
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@CoachingChanges is alluding to a major Big East coaching change that is on the way (and they specifically say, "and its not the loser you are thinking of at this point (Not Wojo,......yet)". Again, the account is run by a number of D1 assistant coaches and/or former head coaches.
Some of the other accounts are referencing Cooley might be on the move. Would he take Boston College (he was a former assistant coach there a number of years ago)? Seems foolish since he turned down Michigan. Did BC somehow find a trunk of cash to help turn around its basketball program (in an era where so many schools are struggling financially and with enrollments)? Would Providence then look to grab Richard Pitino (alum) in his place?
Regardless, I anticipate a LOT of movement in the next four weeks, whether or not Marquette is involved or not. Last year gave many coaches an extra year, and many other programs are using this transition year to make moves. Will be fun to follow.
The only "Major Major Major" (as they phrased it) change in the Big East would be Jay Wright leaving. Willard and McDermott would be in the "big deal" category as I don't know how much better those programs could do. UCONN would be a big deal if Hurley left, but they'll find somebody good if he leaves. Otherwise? I think every other program could in theory get an upgrade from any move.
They're either completely overstating the move or Jay Wright is leaving Nova, which I can't imagine giving he passed up the 76ers job just a few months ago.
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I doubt they have a set standard for the number of majors they use in a given tweet.
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@CoachingChanges is alluding to a major Big East coaching change that is on the way (and they specifically say, "and its not the loser you are thinking of at this point (Not Wojo,......yet)". Again, the account is run by a number of D1 assistant coaches and/or former head coaches.
Some of the other accounts are referencing Cooley might be on the move. Would he take Boston College (he was a former assistant coach there a number of years ago)? Seems foolish since he turned down Michigan. Did BC somehow find a trunk of cash to help turn around its basketball program (in an era where so many schools are struggling financially and with enrollments)? Would Providence then look to grab Richard Pitino (alum) in his place?
Regardless, I anticipate a LOT of movement in the next four weeks, whether or not Marquette is involved or not. Last year gave many coaches an extra year, and many other programs are using this transition year to make moves. Will be fun to follow.
He may just be more comfortable in the northeast. Or maybe the situation at PC has gotten worse and now he is looking for a way out.
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Hoo new? Covid blamed for everything. Wear have wee herd dat befour, hey?
I know, right? It affects virtually nobody.
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Pretty sure a final four is a considerable spike in applications and such whereas other runs aren't exactly eye popping.
My guess is those FF spike levels were largely maintained with the success in the Old Big East vs. gaining additional spikes... the drop off has been seen during the Wojo malaise
Correlation may not be causation on the downturn and likely impossible to precisely quantify, but I've no doubt it's played a role
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Take everything from @coachingchanges with a grain of salt. It’s a lot less reliable than the crystal ball
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My guess is those FF spike levels were largely maintained with the success in the Old Big East vs. gaining additional spikes... the drop off has been seen during the Wojo malaise
Correlation may not be causation on the downturn and likely impossible to precisely quantify, but I've no doubt it's played a role
It really does. Smart kids who also pay attention to sports take that kind of thing into account especially when they are down to 2-3 schools to choose from. I would say “sad but true” but I did it as well. It makes your social experience better and that has a lot to do with the college experience.
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I lived in Connecticut. I would have never even heard of Marquette if not for their basketball success.
I wear a Marquette sweatshirt, t-shirt and/or hat quite often when doing stuff around Charlotte, and I'd need way more than 2 hands to count the number of times people either thought I was wearing Michigan gear or that Marquette was in Michigan.
So I don't have too much trouble believing that what's happened since Hausershima has contributed to our enrollment woes. Obviously, so has the pandemic. Any attempt to guess the percentages of each would be just that IMHO - a guess.
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He may just be more comfortable in the northeast. Or maybe the situation at PC has gotten worse and now he is looking for a way out.
Not sure I believe Cooley actually turned down the Michigan job, but I'd be surprised if he left for BC, he can land a much better job than that.
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Take everything from @coachingchanges with a grain of salt. It’s a lot less reliable than the crystal ball
that dude takes info from message boards.
Hoop Dirt is a good site, however.
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The only "Major Major Major" (as they phrased it) change in the Big East would be Jay Wright leaving. Willard and McDermott would be in the "big deal" category as I don't know how much better those programs could do. UCONN would be a big deal if Hurley left, but they'll find somebody good if he leaves. Otherwise? I think every other program could in theory get an upgrade from any move.
They're either completely overstating the move or Jay Wright is leaving Nova, which I can't imagine giving he passed up the 76ers job just a few months ago.
Patrick Ewing. wink wink
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@CoachingChanges is alluding to a major Big East coaching change that is on the way (and they specifically say, "and its not the loser you are thinking of at this point (Not Wojo,......yet)". Again, the account is run by a number of D1 assistant coaches and/or former head coaches.
Some of the other accounts are referencing Cooley might be on the move. Would he take Boston College (he was a former assistant coach there a number of years ago)? Seems foolish since he turned down Michigan. Did BC somehow find a trunk of cash to help turn around its basketball program (in an era where so many schools are struggling financially and with enrollments)? Would Providence then look to grab Richard Pitino (alum) in his place?
Regardless, I anticipate a LOT of movement in the next four weeks, whether or not Marquette is involved or not. Last year gave many coaches an extra year, and many other programs are using this transition year to make moves. Will be fun to follow.
The huge unknown with some of these schools are the new ADs. BC's came from Temple via Loyola. Those are basketball schools even though Temple has a D1 football team. DP has a new AD. Is he looking to make an immediate impact by dropping a lot on a new coach or keep paying the Laieto range whether he is there or not.
SEC had an AD meeting a few years ago in which Tranghese addressed them and said they are leaving money on the table by not investing in basketball. That led to hires such as Pearl and Howland. Look at the salaries in that league. They have invested heavily since. PAC 12 have been notoriously cheap. Does that change?
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Are we really not going to acknowledge that a complete unbiased 3rd party just call Wojo a Loser? haha
from @coachingChanges - "...and it's not the loser you are thinking of at this point (Not wojo...yet)"
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Patrick Ewing. wink wink
That was my first thought as well
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Are we really not going to acknowledge that a complete unbiased 3rd party just call Wojo a Loser? haha
from @coachingChanges - "...and it's not the loser you are thinking of at this point (Not wojo...yet)"
Well, we all know it's true. Why would we object to the truth?
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Has to be McDermott. He’s about to get cancelled. His own assistant coach is speaking out against him. Whoa.
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McDermott kinda got his tit caught in da wringer, aina?
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McDermott kinda got his tit caught in da wringer, aina?
looks like he's dealing with it head on though, that's worth something
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Has to be McDermott. He’s about to be held accountable for his words. His own assistant coach is speaking out against him. Whoa.
There you go buddy, fixed that for you.
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My God what an absolute horrible analogy for McDermott to use. Brainless to say the least.