MU Coaching Candidates

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I think the whole "Wojo to Duke" thing died and was buried a couple of years ago.  The only way that conceivably happens is if Duke gets a ton of people turning them down because they don't want to follow Coach K.

[MUfan12]

And it was his last win at Marquette.

I'm over Crean's exit, and was genuinely happy to see him back for the 100th anniversary.

But that Stanford game. My God. He made Wojo look like a nimble in-game tactician.

[MU82]

Would I be "open" to Moser? Sure.

There are other names I think I'd prefer, but maybe Moser is more "gettable."

Or maybe he isn't. Maybe he LOVES it at Loyola and simply doesn't want to leave, the way McKillop is happy at Davidson, Few is happy at Gonzaga, Wright is happy at Nova.

[Silent Verbal]

I also think we need to entertain the idea that if Wojo has the success we would like to see he likely lands back at Duke in the not so distant future. 

The "Wojo to Duke" ship has sailed.  Marquette was his audition for the Duke job, and he's failed it with flying colors.  He will never be their head coach now, and you can be sure that had he gotten our program rolling, he'd have left us high and dry and returned to his alma mater the moment Coach K retired.  Well, fook him and the horse he rode in on, and the cavalry behind it, hey?

[shoothoops]

Mark Few is a great coach, deserving of many accolades over his 20 seasons as Head Coach at Gonzaga. Some of his accomplishments there have been staggering. There is one little thing that has been interesting with him to me.

Multiple times, as a double digit NCAA seed, he's had Sweet 16 teams, including a few early at Gonzaga. There have been other strong regular season seeded teams that perhaps lost in the first or second round. He's been there a long time, so he's had a variety of things in his career there.

I bring this up because sometimes people will remember your NCAA Tourney success, and other times they will remember your Regular Season success. And sometimes they will remember both, or something else. But, all types of success count as success.

Six Sweet 16's. Three were as a double digit NCAA seed. Two of these double digit seeded Sweet 16 teams, were in his first two seasons at Gonzaga. Those were his best NCAA seasons until his seventh season. Another Sweet 16 team. Who did they defeat? A 14 and 16 seeded teams. The next Sweet 16 came in his tenth season. Who did they defeat? A 13 and 12 seeded teams.

So, in Mark Few's first ten seasons at Gonzaga, his teams either made the Sweet 16 as a double digit seeded team, or his teams defeated only double digit seeded teams to get there.

Go six more seasons later to their first Elite 8 team. You guessed it. They defeated three double digit seeds to get there. The next year? Gonzaga was the double digit seeded Sweet 16 team. In year 17, Gonzaga finally had a team in which they made the NCAA 2nd weekend by being both a non double digit NCAA seed, and, defeating at least one non double digit NCAA seeded team. That of course was their number one seeded National Runner Up Team.
 
And, not many people care when they were double digit seeded NCAA teams when they had NCAA success. Not many people care when they only defeated double digit NCAA teams. They won. That's all that matters.

Regular Season, NCAA's, vs rivals, conference tourney, etc...you check as many boxes as you can annually.

Tom Crean checked a Final Four box. Sure MU almost lost to Holy Cross (4 point win) and Mizzou (double OT) early in the tourney. What matters is MU made the Final Four and won those games.

Buzz Williams checked an Elite 8 box. Sure MU needed a buzzer beater to get past Davidson early in the tourney. What matters is MU won and and made the Elite 8.

[NickelDimer]

Listen, I wasn't even talking to you in this thread. On 1/25/21 at 4:40:59, you were the one who engaged me in a "spat," and your take was that NoJos should have been more emotional.

Just because you are a frustrated fan, you don't need to project your insecurities and emotions onto others.

Do you have difficulty with instruction? Move on. You’re annoying.

[avid1010]

I think the whole "Wojo to Duke" thing died and was buried a couple of years ago.  The only way that conceivably happens is if Duke gets a ton of people turning them down because they don't want to follow Coach K.

wojo has buzz like success at MU over the next 5 years and i'm not sure it's a crazy thought.  i think wojo having buzz like success is a crazy idea...but...

my point with moser was simply that his name was thrown out.  there are search firms far better at this game than i am...but the point is...there are plenty of candidates that will likely give us what wojo has over the last 6 years by the standards i stated (BEAST finish, NCAA appearance and wins).   if the notion is that MU is allowing him to grow and we're going to have the next jay wright/mark few on our hands; 1) i don't see wojo's growth leading to such 2) i don't see him staying.  MU shouldn't be a place where a coach comes to learn to coach for six friggin years.  it wasn't for TC and it wasn't for Buzz and they had similar or less coaching experience.

 at this point i don't give a sh1t who they find to replace him...i think any reputable search will result in a candidate that at worst gives us as many wins in the next 5 years as wojo will and at best gets us to buzz like success. 

the only hope i have for wojo is that if the hausers wouldn't have left they would have had an impressive team last year, and if we give wojo a pass on those transfers he can field a team like that every 3-4 years.  that said, i'm not convinced they would have been as good as they were projected to be if the hausers would have stayed due to coaching.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Would I be "open" to Moser? Sure.

There are other names I think I'd prefer, but maybe Moser is more "gettable."

Or maybe he isn't. Maybe he LOVES it at Loyola and simply doesn't want to leave, the way McKillop is happy at Davidson, Few is happy at Gonzaga, Wright is happy at Nova.

Agree. I would still make Oats the first call. But I think that ship has sailed. He'll either build a beast at Bama and get massive raises in perpetuity, or be the next head coach at a blue blood when one of those open (or both). I think Moser is the best realistic option.

[Warrior of Law]

I do wonder if AD Scholl, and a few others in the University, pay attention to likely replacements situations.  Never want to be caught off-guard, or not have any plan for the future.  Cords could be tough nut at times, but I always felt he had a good feel for the role and knew when things were changing, or needed to be changed.

I'm officially a lean towards (55-60%) moving on from Wojo, but I could be pulled back with a strong finish this year.

[MU82]

Do you have difficulty with instruction? Move on. You’re annoying.

I don't take "instructions" from people who have not earned respect. But it is amusing that the person who started the "spat" (one you falsely accused me of starting) now wants to make the rules for the end of it. Says a lot about the intellectual dishonesty with which you debate.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

wojo has buzz like success at MU over the next 5 years and i'm not sure it's a crazy thought.  i think wojo having buzz like success is a crazy idea...but...

my point with moser was simply that his name was thrown out.  there are search firms far better at this game than i am...but the point is...there are plenty of candidates that will likely give us what wojo has over the last 6 years by the standards i stated (BEAST finish, NCAA appearance and wins).   if the notion is that MU is allowing him to grow and we're going to have the next jay wright/mark few on our hands; 1) i don't see wojo's growth leading to such 2) i don't see him staying.  MU shouldn't be a place where a coach comes to learn to coach for six friggin years.  it wasn't for TC and it wasn't for Buzz and they had similar or less coaching experience.

 at this point i don't give a sh1t who they find to replace him...i think any reputable search will result in a candidate that at worst gives us as many wins in the next 5 years as wojo will and at best gets us to buzz like success. 

the only hope i have for wojo is that if the hausers wouldn't have left they would have had an impressive team last year, and if we give wojo a pass on those transfers he can field a team like that every 3-4 years.  that said, i'm not convinced they would have been as good as they were projected to be if the hausers would have stayed due to coaching.

I think the big problem is that what we are seeing this year is the same thing we have seen before.  Early success, with some big wins in the non conference season, followed by a late season collapse.

It's a trend.  IMO its shows he's not growing as a coach.  Hell, maybe he will turn it around this year and make a S16 run.  I think that is doubtful however.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I do wonder if AD Scholl, and a few others in the University, pay attention to likely replacements situations.  Never want to be caught off-guard, or not have any plan for the future.  Cords could be tough nut at times, but I always felt he had a good feel for the role and knew when things were changing, or needed to be changed.

I'm officially a lean towards (55-60%) moving on from Wojo, but I could be pulled back with a strong finish this year.

Scholl has done numerous coaching searches while at MU.  And if those searches tell you something, its that he casts a pretty wide net.  I have no doubt that he has a good understanding of who he would look to if Wojo leaves.

[Lennys Tap]

Not trying to trigger you.  Calling you out for who you are - someone who engages in bad faith tactics and revisionist history.

The fact is, the end of season collapse by MU was not unprecedented by any meaningful measure.  And while there were plenty of concerns about his coaching no doubt, it was nearly unanimous that he shouldn't be fired.

AND when the Hausers did leave, most people either said he shouldn't be fired or that it was too late to fire him anyway.

So people who say that they should have fired him after the Hausers left, most certainly didn't state that at the time.  They are simply engaging in revisionist history.

Except I never said (then or now) that Wojo should have been fired after Collapse I or the Hausers leaving. Claiming I did or am now is revisionist history and an untruth. All I pointed out was that (for example) claiming that a team that finishes 3-3 and loses to a 12 seed is comparable to a team that finishes 1-6, gets beat by 19 by a 12 seed and immediately has 2 of their 3 best players transfer was BS. And it is.

[avid1010]

Scholl has done numerous coaching searches while at MU.  And if those searches tell you something, its that he casts a pretty wide net.  I have no doubt that he has a good understanding of who he would look to if Wojo leaves.

No doubt.  I can't believe there is an AD that doesn't have a list.  Literally, a coach could drop dead at any moment. 

I'm struggling with Wojo...feel like anyone on Scholl's list likely has a better upside and I'm not concerned with downside given that I don't care for the program where it stands 6 yesrs in.

Though I'm turning the game on now and praying I'm wrong because I like Wojo and our guys a whole lot as people.

[connie]

I do wonder if AD Scholl, and a few others in the University, pay attention to likely replacements situations.  Never want to be caught off-guard, or not have any plan for the future.  Cords could be tough nut at times, but I always felt he had a good feel for the role and knew when things were changing, or needed to be changed.

I'm officially a lean towards (55-60%) moving on from Wojo, but I could be pulled back with a strong finish this year.

Tonight's game is pulling me somewhere, but it ain't good.

[Galway Eagle]

Outside the box idea:  Ben McCollum From Northwest Missouri State

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Outside the box idea:  Ben McCollum From Northwest Missouri State

Probably should cut his teeth at a mid major place first.  D2 is a step above D3, but it is still an entire staircase below D1.  Maybe when MU hires the Drake coach, he could start there!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Outside the box idea:  Ben McCollum From Northwest Missouri State

Honest question, are there any examples of a P6 program hiring a non-D1 coach and it working out? All I can think of is Kim Anderson failing at Mizzou.

There are lots of examples of coaches who started coaching D2 or D3 who ended up being good P6 coaches, but they all had low or mid-major stops in-between.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Honest question, are there any examples of a P6 program hiring a non-D1 coach and it working out? All I can think of is Kim Anderson failing at Mizzou.

There are lots of examples of coaches who started coaching D2 or D3 who ended up being good P6 coaches, but they all had low or mid-major stops in-between.

John Wooden.   

But seriously, coaches like Dick Bennett, Bo Ryan and Bruce Pearl made stops at low major schools first.  Right to P6 is hard.

[shoothoops]

Honest question, are there any examples of a P6 program hiring a non-D1 coach and it working out? All I can think of is Kim Anderson failing at Mizzou.

There are lots of examples of coaches who started coaching D2 or D3 who ended up being good P6 coaches, but they all had low or mid-major stops in-between.

I would generally agree going from D2 to Power 5 is difficult. I do like to examine every individual situation differently, as I believe situations vary.

Kim Anderson was a unique situation. He was 58 years old when hired. He inherited a mess, investigations, sanctions, and he mostly tried to piece together things, patchwork things in his 3 seasons, losing or dismissing (depends) 13 scholarship players during that time.

He hadn't seen a D-1 sideline in 12 seasons prior. He was a successful long time Mizzou assistant in the 90's and 80's, also stopping at Baylor. And of course he is a former Big 8 Player of The Year at Mizzou. He had always wanted the Mizzou job.

He wasn't going to do the super quick, massive turn around that few coaches can do for a variety of reasons.  He certainly knows ball, can coach ball, as evidence of his winning a National Title in D2, National Coach of The Year etc...but that wasn't going to work out for him or the school at that time. Each situation is different and unique.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So....Kim Anderson failed at Mizzou but there was good reason for it.

[dad's couch]

Chris Beard is probably the closest having coached one year at UALR after two years at Angelo State. Real gutsy hire but hard to get someone of quality to Lubbock.

[shoothoops]

So....Kim Anderson failed at Mizzou but there was good reason for it.

I just like to look at each situation for itself. A different example on the same topic may produce a different explanation. Kim Anderson wasn't successful in his three seasons as Head Coach at Mizzou, after very successful runs as a player and assistant there. There were reasons for it, both within his control, and out of his control.

The time to take a chance on Kim Anderson was many years prior, if they were ever going to do it.

But fear not "Kim Fans", because it may not be the last time Mizzou ever hires a Men's Hoops Head Coach named Kim.  The stars could align down the road for Kimmie English.

[Billy Hoyle]

He's probably been mentioned here, but I'd be quite happy with Nico Medved at Colorado State. He has CSU at 12-3 with wins at Utah State, San Diego State, and at home against Boise State. He took over a program in disarray just three years ago. He went 17-17 in one year at Drake, taking over a 7-24 program that was picked last in the pre-season polls (finishing fourth). Good success at Furman too. 

Plus, Steve Cottingham is his sport administrator at Colorado State. Er, maybe that's not a good thing.

[JWags85]

Honest question, are there any examples of a P6 program hiring a non-D1 coach and it working out? All I can think of is Kim Anderson failing at Mizzou.

There are lots of examples of coaches who started coaching D2 or D3 who ended up being good P6 coaches, but they all had low or mid-major stops in-between.

Not just the low major stops, but Pearl, Bo Ryan, Chris Beard...all had stints as D1 assistants before being HCs at lower levels.  McCollum hasn’t sniffed a D1 sideline period.  Player, GA, assistant, etc...

He’s clearly a good coach and likely is excellent with Xs and Os, but he’d be completely over his head IMO