Oh, how the worm can turn.

[rocket surgeon]

Playing time opened up, but there was a great deal of speculation that the Hauser weren't the only players less than thrilled with hero ball.

  here are some other intangibles lenny-first off, yes the hausers are good, but now they are vulnerable.  now, they HAVE to acclimate.  especially sam.  he may be out of options.  joey?  this is like b-ball boot camp-he don't make it for izzo, end of story.  now do not interpret this as rocket don't want the hausers to succeed-not at all.  they control their own destiny, not me.  both izzo and bennett realize ALL of this.  they both know talent.  they are both banking on the fact that the boys will have learned from their mistakes and will be all ears. it'll be very interesting to see how much ball they get...especially joey.  and mr & mrs had to move back a few rows

as for the other players on the team?  very possible, but no one else left.  wojo prevented any more from leaving somehow and it wasn't his good looks...i don't think...nahhhh.  those that stayed are ALL in

[Lennys Tap]

Key word.  It's the internet so anyone can speculate about anything.  The fact is no one else was bothered enough to transfer.

Don't like speculation I suggest you avoid this topic - it's full of nothing but - a letter nobody's seen, contents of the unknown letter, Joey made Sam do it, Sam mage Joey do it, Mom is an a$$ and made them do it, Dad is an a$$ and made them do it, Sam wanted more shots, Joey wanted more shots, Sam and Joey both wanted more shots, Sam was jealous of Markus, Joey was jealous of Markus, Sam and Joey were jealous of Markus, etc..

Everyone has come to conclusions that confirm their biases. I'm no different - mine is toward team play and I thought last year's team relied too much on one player. That the second and third best players on the team (who grew up playing a "team first" system) agreed didn't surprise me. And when that one player was injured, went cold or both down the stretch he didn't know how to take his foot off of the gas and his coach didn't know how to make him. So the season cratered and the Hausers are gone - to outstanding coaches/programs.

Wojo's a young coach who has a lot going for him - I hope he learns from last year and has a long successful stay at MU. But (IMHO) last year's collapse is on him.

[Cheeks]

Don't like speculation I suggest you avoid this topic - it's full of nothing but - a letter nobody's seen, contents of the unknown letter, Joey made Sam do it, Sam mage Joey do it, Mom is an a$$ and made them do it, Dad is an a$$ and made them do it, Sam wanted more shots, Joey wanted more shots, Sam and Joey both wanted more shots, Sam was jealous of Markus, Joey was jealous of Markus, Sam and Joey were jealous of Markus, etc..

Everyone has come to conclusions that confirm their biases. I'm no different - mine is toward team play and I thought last year's team relied too much on one player. That the second and third best players on the team (who grew up playing a "team first" system) agreed didn't surprise me. And when that one player was injured, went cold or both down the stretch he didn't know how to take his foot off of the gas and his coach didn't know how to make him. So the season cratered and the Hausers are gone - to outstanding coaches/programs.

Wojo's a young coach who has a lot going for him - I hope he learns from last year and has a long successful stay at MU. But (IMHO) last year's collapse is on him.

You excited about the recruits Lenny? 

Since we don’t know what happened last year, you still have no problem assigning the blame anyway.  Cool.

[Its DJOver]

Don't like speculation I suggest you avoid this topic - it's full of nothing but - a letter nobody's seen, contents of the unknown letter, Joey made Sam do it, Sam mage Joey do it, Mom is an a$$ and made them do it, Dad is an a$$ and made them do it, Sam wanted more shots, Joey wanted more shots, Sam and Joey both wanted more shots, Sam was jealous of Markus, Joey was jealous of Markus, Sam and Joey were jealous of Markus, etc..

Everyone has come to conclusions that confirm their biases. I'm no different - mine is toward team play and I thought last year's team relied too much on one player. That the second and third best players on the team (who grew up playing a "team first" system) agreed didn't surprise me. And when that one player was injured, went cold or both down the stretch he didn't know how to take his foot off of the gas and his coach didn't know how to make him. So the season cratered and the Hausers are gone - to outstanding coaches/programs.

Wojo's a young coach who has a lot going for him - I hope he learns from last year and has a long successful stay at MU. But (IMHO) last year's collapse is on him.

I just find it funny that you asked for specific evidence that you knew Tower didn't have...

Please print this "letter" you know so much about and endlessly refer to IF it exists.

and then in you're very next post, made a claim that would need specif evidence to back up...

They were disgruntled long before the season cratered (Buffalo or before).

I can only speculate myself, but I would think that no matter how someone's role changed from their vision to reality, you wouldn't be disgruntled enough to consider transferring in the middle of a 8 game winning streak and being ranked in the top 10  (all things that happened post Buffalo).  Similarly, I don't think you would be disgruntled with a 31 point performance on 1-15 (post Buffalo), or a 21 point performance on 1-26 (also post Buffalo). 

Again, I don't have the inside information so I can only speculate.  Just don't get upset when you get called out for not having the evidence on some speculation that you made.

[tower912]

Neither of us is going to change the other's mind, Lenny.  So be it.   Go, Marquette!

[Lennys Tap]

Neither of us is going to change the other's mind, Lenny.  So be it.   Go, Marquette!

I'm with you, Tower.

And to answer, Chico, I've already expressed my excitement regarding the 2020 class so far. Very hopeful that Wojo and co. finish things with a flourish.

Go, Marquette, indeed!

[The Lens]

We lost players to MSU & UVA...

But just keep pretending it’s all no big deal. 

[Lennys Tap]

I just find it funny that you asked for specific evidence that you knew Tower didn't have...

and then in you're very next post, made a claim that would need specif evidence to back up...

I can only speculate myself, but I would think that no matter how someone's role changed from their vision to reality, you wouldn't be disgruntled enough to consider transferring in the middle of a 8 game winning streak and being ranked in the top 10  (all things that happened post Buffalo).  Similarly, I don't think you would be disgruntled with a 31 point performance on 1-15 (post Buffalo), or a 21 point performance on 1-26 (also post Buffalo). 

Again, I don't have the inside information so I can only speculate.  Just don't get upset when you get called out for not having the evidence on some speculation that you made.

As stated, I'm speculating - mostly based on what I've seen on the court, though.

The "letter" is pure speculation - nobody here even knows if it exists, let alone what's in it if it does.

[tower912]

We lost players to MSU & UVA...

But just keep pretending it’s all no big deal.

And Marquette picked up a 7 footer and 4 guards who weren't around a year ago.  And now has two top 100 recruits for next year.    The circle of life.

[Its DJOver]

As stated, I'm speculating - mostly based on what I've seen on the court, though.

The "letter" is pure speculation - nobody here even knows if it exists, let alone what's in it if it does.

Nobody here knows the Hausers attitude and position on the possibility of transferring prior to the Buffalo game.  Prenteding to know otherwise is pure speculation.  Both Sam and Joey had good games and not so good games both pre and post Buffalo.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Furthermore, if they were truly upset about the offense at that point of the season, then I question their mindset.

[Lennys Tap]

Nobody here knows the Hausers attitude and position on the possibility of transferring prior to the Buffalo game.  Prenteding to know otherwise is pure speculation.  Both Sam and Joey had good games and not so good games both pre and post Buffalo.

What? An unhappy player can't have a good game? That's hilarious. And patently, provably false.

[Uncle Rico]

Sam was one of my favorite Marquette players ever.  Bigger fan of his than Markus.  No reason.  Never is when you’re a fan.  You like some guys more than others.  Loved Davante over Jamil.  Loved Jerel over Wes and DJ.  Damon Key over Mac.  Supported them all.  Wish Sam was graduating at Marquette.  He isn’t.  That’s a shame.  Going to cheer for the guys here.  What’s done is done

[Its DJOver]

What? An unhappy player can't have a good game? That's hilarious. And patently, provably false.

That was your whole argument literally one post ago

As stated, I'm speculating - mostly based on what I've seen on the court, though.

Now I'm officially confused because you are contradicting yourself post by post.

[Lennys Tap]

That was your whole argument literally one post ago

Now I'm officially confused because you are contradicting yourself post by post.

?????? My whole argument was that an unhappy player can't have a good game??? I never said any such thing. Please quote my statements that you think say this because I'm confused by your lack of reading comprehension.

[Silent Verbal]

Here’s something that isn’t speculation:  Wojo has won zero NCAA tournament games in five seasons as head coach at Marquette.

Wojo’s recruiting continues to be on par with Crean’s and Buzz’s.  Getting Osa (#73 overall) and Lewis (#75) is just more evidence of that.  Get Suggs or Garcia, the class becomes next level and a cut above any the previous two coaches ever had.  Get RJ Davis, and Wojo will at the very least match Buzz and TC’s best in terms of hype and rankings.  So as far as recruiting goes, I don’t think the worm has really turned.  It’s pretty much right where it ought to be. 

The results on the court need to change.  The pressure will be on Wojo to win an NCAA tournament game this year.  With this being Howard’s last season, anything short of that will be a huge disappointment.  The recruits are nice but they haven’t played a minute of college basketball and won’t for another 14 months.  Let’s see how this season plays out before we start talking about worms turning or seas changing or whatever other type of I-told-you-so hubris comes to mind.

[Its DJOver]

?????? My whole argument was that an unhappy player can't have a good game??? I never said any such thing. Please quote my statements that you think say this because I'm confused by your lack of reading comprehension.

Your argument was this.

I'm speculating - mostly based on what I've seen on the court, though.

"What I've seen on the court".  How else would you interpret that other than the performances that Joey had on the court?  It seems pretty straight forward.

You took what you saw from Joey "on the court" and turned that into he was disgruntled enough pre Buffalo to decide to transfer.  How you came to this conclusion is the confusing part.  I'd like to understand, can you please name specifics of what you've "seen on the court" that led you to said conclusion?

[Uncle Rico]

Here’s something that isn’t speculation:  Wojo has won zero NCAA tournament games in five seasons as head coach at Marquette.

Wojo’s recruiting continues to be on par with Crean’s and Buzz’s.  Getting Osa (#73 overall) and Lewis (#75) is just more evidence of that.  Get Suggs or Garcia, the class becomes next level and a cut above any the previous two coaches ever had.  Get RJ Davis, and Wojo will at the very least match Buzz and TC’s best in terms of hype and rankings.  So as far as recruiting goes, I don’t think the worm has really turned.  It’s pretty much right where it ought to be.

Now, where things need to change is the on-court results.  The pressure will be on Wojo to win an NCAA tournament game this year.  With this being Howard’s last season, anything short of that will be a huge disappointment.  The recruits are nice but they haven’t played a minute of college basketball and won’t for another 14 months.  Let’s see how this season plays out before we start talking about worms turning or seas changing or whatever other type of I-told-you-so hubris comes to mind.

This is fair.  The tournament is a crapshoot but it’s time to win or at least compete for 40 minutes in March

[The Lens]

Here’s something that isn’t speculation:  Wojo has won zero NCAA tournament games in five seasons as head coach at Marquette.

Wojo’s recruiting continues to be on par with Crean’s and Buzz’s.  Getting Osa (#73 overall) and Lewis (#75) is just more evidence of that.  Get Suggs or Garcia, the class becomes next level and a cut above any the previous two coaches ever had.  Get RJ Davis, and Wojo will at the very least match Buzz and TC’s best in terms of hype and rankings.  So as far as recruiting goes, I don’t think the worm has really turned.  It’s pretty much right where it ought to be. 

The results on the court need to change.  The pressure will be on Wojo to win an NCAA tournament game this year.  With this being Howard’s last season, anything short of that will be a huge disappointment.  The recruits are nice but they haven’t played a minute of college basketball and won’t for another 14 months.  Let’s see how this season plays out before we start talking about worms turning or seas changing or whatever other type of I-told-you-so hubris comes to mind.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[MU82]

We lost players to MSU & UVA...

But just keep pretending it’s all no big deal.

The majority of Scoopers aren't pretending "it's all no big deal" IMHO.

The Hauser faction thinks it's a huge, huge, huge deal, and confirmation that their doubts about Wojo were right. The Wojo faction, sure, maybe they think it's no big deal.

I believe most, however, are in the middle -- disappointed the Hausers quit the program, wish they had stayed, worried about where the outside shooting is going to come from, concerned (at least initially) that the fallout might seriously hurt Wojo's recruiting (it doesn't seem to have), and now saying it's all on Wojo to prove he can take this program to the next level.

Those of us in that latter group realize there is nothing anybody can do about the past. Despite the departure of one very good Big East player and one potentially good player, we are trying to be optimistic about a future that includes a possible National Player of the Year and some solid role players.

[Lennys Tap]

Your argument was this.

"What I've seen on the court".  How else would you interpret that other than the performances that Joey had on the court?  It seems pretty straight forward.

You took what you saw from Joey "on the court" and turned that into he was disgruntled enough pre Buffalo to decide to transfer.  How you came to this conclusion is the confusing part.  I'd like to understand, can you please name specifics of what you've "seen on the court" that led you to said conclusion?

Who said what I saw "from Joey" on the court. I don't know when Sam or Joey decided to transfer. I don't know, either, when they first became unhappy with hero ball. But it (hero ball) started well before our collapse - so my guess would be well before our collapse.

When I said I drew my conclusions "from what I saw on the court" I was referring to hero ball, a system (based on their background) that I didn't think Sam and Joey would like.

[Its DJOver]

Who said what I saw "from Joey" on the court. I don't know when Sam or Joey decided to transfer. I don't know, either, when they first became unhappy with hero ball. But it (hero ball) started well before our collapse - so my guess would be well before our collapse.

When I said I drew my conclusions "from what I saw on the court" I was referring to hero ball, a system (based on their background) that I didn't think Sam and Joey would like.

So you're backtracking on what you said.  That's fine, NBD, just try to refrain from making wild speculations without any evidence.  As for the "hero ball", that started before Joey was on campus, and Joey knew Markus very well prior to his commitment. Sam also played with Markus for 2.5 years without being disgruntled to the point of transferring so I'm not sure it was as big of a factor as you do, which is also fine (opinions right).  I don't know the exact reasons why they transferred, and neither do you, which is the whole point that I was trying to make from the beginning.  Have a good weekend.

[WhiteTrash]

The majority of Scoopers aren't pretending "it's all no big deal" IMHO.

The Hauser faction thinks it's a huge, huge, huge deal, and confirmation that their doubts about Wojo were right. The Wojo faction, sure, maybe they think it's no big deal.

I believe most, however, are in the middle -- disappointed the Hausers quit the program, wish they had stayed, worried about where the outside shooting is going to come from, concerned (at least initially) that the fallout might seriously hurt Wojo's recruiting (it doesn't seem to have), and now saying it's all on Wojo to prove he can take this program to the next level.

Those of us in that latter group realize there is nothing anybody can do about the past. Despite the departure of one very good Big East player and one potentially good player, we are trying to be optimistic about a future that includes a possible National Player of the Year and some solid role players.

Whoa! Time Out! What is this Bull$h!t?

Sir, this is a internet fan board. Your level headed, thoughtful and reasoned opinions are not welcome here.

Can we please go back to name calling, absolute assertions, fabrication of facts, hyperbole and snide remarks?

The nerve of some people never fails to amaze me. 

[mileskishnish72]

Agree that Wojo very badly needs a tournament win. But

that Murray State game was no crap shoot, it was a solid ass-kicking.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Agree that Wojo very badly needs a tournament win. But

that Murray State game was no crap shoot, it was a solid ass-kicking.

The Murray State game was most definitely a crap chute.