Well that was a waste

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You have really never heard ANYONE b*itch about how much someone else makes?? You have never heard anyone complain about how much CEO's of companies make?? Or how much pro athletes make?? You almost had to have. Most people think other people are overpaid, for what they do, unless it's them. I'm not spit balling here, that's just reality. I think it's weird to, that people obsess/think about it that much, but they honestly do. Money makes people weird..greed, it drives America.

If you hate this so much,  why are you so worried about how much student athletes could make if this passes?

[Dr. Blackheart]

When is the Hiemal Solstice this year?  I am hoping for those announcements. 

[mu03eng]

What about 18 year old high school kids then?? Should we let them do it to?? I'm sure you will say yes...because the all knowing Sultan is never wrong about anything. Their earning potential isn't being prevented. They can give up sports and get jobs(like normal people), they can go to the G league, the NBA, Overseas...they have options. Not like they don't. Why do you think they choose to go to college then?? No one is making them. They can not go to college and make $$, can't they?? Yet...they choose not to.

Their earning potential might be stiffled if their number 1 ability is playing a sport and they are really good at it but can't monetize it beyond their scholarship money which is different than it might be on the open market.

There is no doubting that college is still the best platform to make the pros and that there is a ton of value in it. No one is denying that. It's simply a matter of with a little tweak we can make that path better/more equitable for the student athletes and why is that such a bad thing? Who is harmed in providing athletes to profit off NIL?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

They've been laid out 50 times or more.  You refuse to acknowledge it. 
And when the argument is "it is the right thing to do" and "the kids deserve it" your response, bizarrely, was:

'I didn't get absolutely everything I wanted as a kid so we shouldn't do the right thing now', is
...well, I don't even know how to characterize that sort of inanity.
Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they aren't logical or well thought out.  In fact, it is probably a contra-indicator.

Oh wait, I forgot to add "game.set.match.TSmith"

[cheebs09]

Their earning potential might be stiffled if their number 1 ability is playing a sport and they are really good at it but can't monetize it beyond their scholarship money which is different than it might be on the open market.

There is no doubting that college is still the best platform to make the pros and that there is a ton of value in it. No one is denying that. It's simply a matter of with a little tweak we can make that path better/more equitable for the student athletes and why is that such a bad thing? Who is harmed in providing athletes to profit off NIL?

Basically the same as the Minor League baseball fair wage argument. They have other options in Korea or just go to college. Just because it's the best of the options, doesn't mean it can't be upgraded to be more fair.

I think we have figured out what Skip Bayless does in his spare time.

[muguru]

So you think doing the right thing is terrible?

You're at least sensible...why is it "the right thing to do" Brew?? it hasn't been for all these years, what makes it so different now?? Just because times change and things change doesn't mean EVERYTHING has to change with it. Who says it's "the right thing to do"?? Who gets to make that decision?? Lot's of people think this or that is "the right thing to do", and that doesn't necessarily make it so. No one sticks to their principles and values anymore. Everyone caters to what others think is right, in fear of offending someone if they don't. I think that's crap. If the NCAA has always had it this way(and they have), they should stick to that. Don't cave to the pressure of others just because they "want it that way".

No one is being harmed with the way it is now, and if a majority of people's opinion is it needs to change because well "things change over time", just because things change doesn't mean they change for the better. Usually when people want things to change it's because they benefit from them in some way shape or form.

[muguru]

Their earning potential might be stiffled if their number 1 ability is playing a sport and they are really good at it but can't monetize it beyond their scholarship money which is different than it might be on the open market.

There is no doubting that college is still the best platform to make the pros and that there is a ton of value in it. No one is denying that. It's simply a matter of with a little tweak we can make that path better/more equitable for the student athletes and why is that such a bad thing? Who is harmed in providing athletes to profit off NIL?

IF this ended up being a "little" tweak, I wouldn't have a problem with it...that's the truth. It may start out that way, but anyone that thinks this won't eventually lead to Universities paying players directly is sadly mistaken. That's the next step in all of this.

If this is going to only benefit the top athletes as people claim, then why can't they just wait until they get to the pros to make the money?? You said yourself, colleges are providing these kids the platform..to showcase their talents, right?? And in exchange for that these Athletes get free tuition, room, board etc.

My issue is more about the people that are for this and also want the athletes to retain their eligibility. Why should they get to?? They can make a decision...$$ as an athlete now, or be allowed to participate in post season. It's the NCAA's right to take that away from them.

[Its DJOver]

You're at least sensible...why is it "the right thing to do" Brew?? it hasn't been for all these years, what makes it so different now?? Just because times change and things change doesn't mean EVERYTHING has to change with it. Who says it's "the right thing to do"?? Who gets to make that decision?? Lot's of people think this or that is "the right thing to do", and that doesn't necessarily make it so. No one sticks to their principles and values anymore. Everyone caters to what others think is right, in fear of offending someone if they don't. I think that's crap. If the NCAA has always had it this way(and they have), they should stick to that. Don't cave to the pressure of others just because they "want it that way".

No one is being harmed with the way it is now, and if a majority of people's opinion is it needs to change because well "things change over time", just because things change doesn't mean they change for the better. Usually when people want things to change it's because they benefit from them in some way shape or form.

Is it just me, or can anyone else imagine this, almost word for word, being passed out on a pamphlet trying to get people to boycott the Dodgers in '47. 

"Who say's its the right thing to do"  "This is the way it's always been"  "Don't be afraid of offending someone"  "No one is being harmed with the way it is now'  "Change doesn't always mean change for the better".

Robinson in 47.  UTEP in 65.  Women in 20's.  If you hadn't read the first 50 pages of this thread and just picked it up here, you'd have no idea which topic we're on.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You're at least sensible...why is it "the right thing to do" Brew?? it hasn't been for all these years, what makes it so different now??

Who says it wasn't the right thing to do before? Just because something was done in the past doesn't mean it was right.

No one is being harmed with the way it is now,

You keep saying this but people have said repeatedly that they see it differently. I think that these players ability to earn money is being artificially lowered for a reason that has nothing to do with the public good. Just like I support the coaches and ADs making huge salaries, I also support the student athlete's rights to maximize what they can earn.

Usually when people want things to change it's because they benefit from them in some way shape or form.

I think that's a really sad world view. I'd like to believe that most people would chose to support something they think is right even if it doesn't benefit them personally. Gay marriage does nothing to benefit me personally, but it is something I demonstrated for and gave money for because I believed it was right. I'm pro-immigration and have volunteered and demonstrated at events for it but I can't think of any way that it would benefit me. I do it because it's what my values and ethics calls me to do.

I support this, because I think it is the right thing to do. I'm all for regulating it to help make sure as few of the potential pitfalls don't happen but ultimately I think it is something that could help a lot of people. I think it will do a lot more good than bad.

[Uncle Rico]

Is it just me, or can anyone else imagine this, almost word for word, being passed out on a pamphlet trying to get people to boycott the Dodgers in '47. 

"Who say's its the right thing to do"  "This is the way it's always been"  "Don't be afraid of offending someone"  "No one is being harmed with the way it is now'  "Change doesn't always mean change for the better".

Robinson in 47.  UTEP in 65.  Women in 20's.  If you hadn't read the first 50 pages of this thread and just picked it up here, you'd have no idea which topic we're on.

Yuuuuuuuuup

[Pakuni]

No one is being harmed with the way it is now,

This is your opinion as someone who's not at all impacted by the NCAA's restrictions.
I would suspect that a vast majority of the student-athletes who are losing these opportunities would disagree.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

My issue is more about the people that are for this and also want the athletes to retain their eligibility. Why should they get to?? They can make a decision...$$ as an athlete now, or be allowed to participate in post season. It's the NCAA's right to take that away from them.

No one is questioning that the NCAA doesn't have the right to do it. We are of the belief that even though the NCAA has the right to make them ineligible that choose not to exercise that right.

[mu03eng]

If this is going to only benefit the top athletes as people claim, then why can't they just wait until they get to the pros to make the money?? You said yourself, colleges are providing these kids the platform..to showcase their talents, right?? And in exchange for that these Athletes get free tuition, room, board etc.

Why should the athletes A) have to wait to maximize their revenue? Especially when everyone else involved can maximize in the immediate (other students, coaches, staff, etc) B) what if athletes get injured while in college and lose their earning potential? What if Saquon Barkley had torn his ACL his sophmore year? Delaying his earning potential would have undoubtedly hampered his life time revenue potential?

[The Sultan]

You dodge the questions...all you give are answers like "I have no problem with this or that". Nothing of substance. You don't say why you think NIL is a good idea, other than "they deserve it". 

Here is a response I just gave today:

"I think adults are being harmed by unnecessary regulations that prevent them from reaching their earning potential."

Here is another I will give you now:

"In our society, one should be as free as possible from unreasonable regulations that restrict how people may earn money."

(Note in neither case did I say "because they deserve it.")

Now, do you understand my position?  Are you having trouble with the written word?  Do you need me to come to your house and read it to you?  Would a drawing with stick figures help you?  Tell me guru, what would help you understand these two sentences better?

You're one of these people that I'm willing to bet votes based on who's views on social issues most align with yours. If society is for it, your for it, whether it's a terrible decision or not. Society has been flat out wrong on many of the things they have "come around" on lately. If a majority of society is also for this, they are wrong on this too. Period.

I have no idea what this means.  Yes I vote for people largely based on their views on social and economic issues.

[muguru]

Why should the athletes A) have to wait to maximize their revenue? Especially when everyone else involved can maximize in the immediate (other students, coaches, staff, etc) B) what if athletes get injured while in college and lose their earning potential? What if Saquon Barkley had torn his ACL his sophmore year? Delaying his earning potential would have undoubtedly hampered his life time revenue potential?

Why are we not allowed to drive until we are 16?? Vote until we are 18?? Drink until we are 21?? Most top athletes have insurance policies while they are in college to guard against that very thing.

This whole world view that things should be fair for everyone, is just...baffling to me. Life isn't fair.

[brewcity77]

You're at least sensible...why is it "the right thing to do" Brew?? it hasn't been for all these years, what makes it so different now??

It always was. Just because we didn't do something before doesn't mean it was right then.

Money is made off the name and images of these individuals. The idea they can't do that off the face literally attached to their head is ridiculous. It always was.

[muguru]

Who says it wasn't the right thing to do before? Just because something was done in the past doesn't mean it was right.

You keep saying this but people have said repeatedly that they see it differently. I think that these players ability to earn money is being artificially lowered for a reason that has nothing to do with the public good. Just like I support the coaches and ADs making huge salaries, I also support the student athlete's rights to maximize what they can earn.

I think that's a really sad world view. I'd like to believe that most people would chose to support something they think is right even if it doesn't benefit them personally. Gay marriage does nothing to benefit me personally, but it is something I demonstrated for and gave money for because I believed it was right. I'm pro-immigration and have volunteered and demonstrated at events for it but I can't think of any way that it would benefit me. I do it because it's what my values and ethics calls me to do.

I support this, because I think it is the right thing to do. I'm all for regulating it to help make sure as few of the potential pitfalls don't happen but ultimately I think it is something that could help a lot of people. I think it will do a lot more good than bad.

And people like you are applauded for things like this, yet those that think differently, and speak out against are somehow lessor individuals and ridiculed etc. That's what I mean by who gets to decide what is right and what isn't??

Lots and lots and lots of people worldwide think the voting age should be lowered, and the drinking age should be too, how does that make them more right that they think that then those who oppose that?? It shouldn't, but it does. People now days go along with the path of least resistance, the one that the majority THINK they should take, and the one that will "offend" the least amount of people, even though it might "offend" others, those people don't matter now.

[muguru]

Here is a response I just gave today:

"I think adults are being harmed by unnecessary regulations that prevent them from reaching their earning potential."

Here is another I will give you now:

"In our society, one should be as free as possible from unreasonable regulations that restrict how people may earn money."

(Note in neither case did I say "because they deserve it.")

Now, do you understand my position?  Are you having trouble with the written word?  Do you need me to come to your house and read it to you?  Would a drawing with stick figures help you?  Tell me guru, what would help you understand these two sentences better?


I have no idea what this means.  Yes I vote for people largely based on their views on social and economic issues.

My point exactly...if it's what Sultan says it should be, then that's the Only reasonable solution. Your way or no way, right?? You demonstrate that view by saying "unreasonable" regulations. YOU think they are unreasonable. Who are you to decide if they are or aren't...other than you think you should be able to.

[The Sultan]

My point exactly...if it's what Sultan says it should be, then that's the Only reasonable solution. Your way or no way, right?? You demonstrate that view by saying "unreasonable" regulations. YOU think they are unreasonable. Who are you to decide if they are or aren't...other than you think you should be able to.

It's my opinion.  Which is a reasonable thing to give when you ask "Why do you think it's a good idea." 

[brewcity77]

And people like you are applauded for things like this, yet those that think differently, and speak out against are somehow lessor individuals and ridiculed etc. That's what I mean by who gets to decide what is right and what isn't??

I'm almost starting to think this really isn't about the athletes for you, and just a proxy discussion for something else. 

[79Warrior]

And people like you are applauded for things like this, yet those that think differently, and speak out against are somehow lessor individuals and ridiculed etc. That's what I mean by who gets to decide what is right and what isn't??

Lots and lots and lots of people worldwide think the voting age should be lowered, and the drinking age should be too, how does that make them more right that they think that then those who oppose that?? It shouldn't, but it does. People now days go along with the path of least resistance, the one that the majority THINK they should take, and the one that will "offend" the least amount of people, even though it might "offend" others, those people don't matter now.

I honestly have not seen "lots and lots and lots of people worldwide" opining on lowering the voting age.

[mu03eng]

Why are we not allowed to drive until we are 16?? Vote until we are 18?? Drink until we are 21?? Most top athletes have insurance policies while they are in college to guard against that very thing.

This whole world view that things should be fair for everyone, is just...baffling to me. Life isn't fair.

This whole world view that things should continue to be artificially unfair because that's how it's always been is just.....baffling to me. Life is naturally unfair, why put our thumb on the scale on top of it?

The first part of your response is just nonsense, all of those laws are in place to "protect the public good" and one could argue whether those laws make sense in their current configuration now as well. What does that have to do with freeing student athletes to monetize their NIL? Where is the public good concern other than "I don't like change"?

[MU82]

Aside from the fact that what you say is untrue, because multiple posters have stated very good reasons why athletes should be able to profit off their likenesses as all other students can,  my questions to you are:

For whatever reason the prospect of this impending change bothers people to no end. Not sure why...who cares?? How does it affect them in any way??

Unless you can prove how this policy would materially harm you, your opposition to it is lame and weak.

Crickets from you, guru?

Dozens of posts on this topic, yet you can't explain why you care so much about this and how the change -- which is coming, whether you like it or not -- will affect you in any way?

[mu03eng]

I'm almost starting to think this really isn't about the athletes for you, and just a proxy discussion for something else. 

This is a 100% proxy war for him against the Woke crowd, which whatever have that discussion but this isn't a woke issue at all. You know you've lost the thread when you only argument is to take the position that "yeah well you aren't right because your opinion is just something the majority believes and why does the majority get to decide things??"

[MU82]

Coach K is for the fair pay bill... feel free to jump in on this one fellas

If he said something about crapshoots, you'd quote him in your tag line.

And BTW, I agree 100% with that Jefferson quote of yours, just as I'm sure you agree with the Jefferson quote of mine.