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Date/Time: Oct 4, 2019
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Author Topic: Crowder & Hayward to HOF  (Read 14635 times)

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #100 on: August 17, 2019, 09:52:29 PM »

Maybe. But I am also amazed how little many young people know about basic grammar and punctuation, not to mention simple math without the aid of a calculator.

It also seems to vary by school. My daughters were fortunate that they went to very high-quality public schools. In college, classmates used to assume they were valedictorians of some elite private HS...which makes me wonder where some of their college classmates went to high school....

Fair points
"It's a crapshoot.  You have to be lucky."
Head Coach Roy Williams

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #101 on: August 17, 2019, 09:55:40 PM »
Alums aren't frustrated with the "pursuit of elite", it's the sense that MU feels they have achieved it (which strays from its historical mission, IMO) that bothers many. That's the rub and the low alumni donation contribution rate is a sign of this, perhaps?

Btw, to become elite, MU needs a medical school and all the research funds and endowment that go with it. But, we all have rehashed that here a million times. Not gonna happen.

It would be nice, but not needed to have a med school.  There are too 50 schools today that do not have medical schools just as there are schools barely in the top 200 that do.  It definitely would be nice, but not a must have.
"It's a crapshoot.  You have to be lucky."
Head Coach Roy Williams

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #102 on: August 17, 2019, 09:59:42 PM »
Marquette shooting out of their backside for the final :40 was what made the difference, not Davidson gagging.

Great comeback, tremendous gag or as Buzz charitably said...we got lucky.  Top free throw shooting team in the nation shoots terribly that game, horrific play at the end....many media articles and their fans....”we choked”.   The simple way to answer this, if Crean, Wojo, Deane, Majerus, etc were the coach and we had same lead and lost, our fans would say we choked.  And to deny this is 100% bullshat....you know damn well that would be the case.  If good for the goose in a definition, then good for the gander.
"It's a crapshoot.  You have to be lucky."
Head Coach Roy Williams

brewcity77

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #103 on: August 17, 2019, 10:08:09 PM »
Davidson gagged hard for one of our runs when the APR was sliding...our APR didn’t make them throw the ball away, shoot terrible free throws, etc....etc, etc

This is not true. Davidson played well down the stretch of that game. They didn't throw it away, Marquette seized it aggressively.

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #104 on: August 17, 2019, 10:56:17 PM »
This is not true. Davidson played well down the stretch of that game. They didn't throw it away, Marquette seized it aggressively.

Correct

79Warrior

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #105 on: August 18, 2019, 12:09:51 AM »
This is not true. Davidson played well down the stretch of that game. They didn't throw it away, Marquette seized it aggressively.

Absolutely

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #106 on: August 18, 2019, 02:48:09 AM »
When I sat in Houston in that stadium with Patriots down 28-3 and watched them win, what do you think Falcons fans were saying?  Hell, half the Pats fans were saying it, too.  Only way to win is if Falcons screw this up.  No different with Pats and Seahawks.  And 1000’s of other examples.  Great comebacks happen almost always because the other side fails to keep it going, chokes, makes mental or physical errors, etc.  And there is no way people are telling the truth if the script was flipped and we lost, our fans would absolutely say it was a choke.  They are lying if they say otherwise, especially true depending on who the coach is.  We made a great comeback and Davidson pissed their pants to make it happen.  What that has to do with an APR score is beyond me.
"It's a crapshoot.  You have to be lucky."
Head Coach Roy Williams

brewcity77

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #107 on: August 18, 2019, 07:17:07 AM »
We made a great comeback and Davidson pissed their pants to make it happen.

Excluding the Hail Mary pass that ended the game with 1 second left, Davidson scored 1.200 ppp in their final four possessions. This includes 75% from the line and 100 eFG% with just one turnover. That's not choking. Marquette scored an insane 2.750 ppp in the same period with a 175 eFG%.

The bolded is correct. The rest is not. Including all the meaningless NFL drivel.

NickelDimer

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #108 on: August 18, 2019, 08:02:37 AM »
Of course - we took that game, one of MU's best comebacks ever.
And why any true MU fan would want to discredit our Warriors for that incredible effort and focus is beyond me
G.T.S.T

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #109 on: August 18, 2019, 08:50:21 AM »
Excluding the Hail Mary pass that ended the game with 1 second left, Davidson scored 1.200 ppp in their final four possessions. This includes 75% from the line and 100 eFG% with just one turnover. That's not choking. Marquette scored an insane 2.750 ppp in the same period with a 175 eFG%.

The bolded is correct. The rest is not. Including all the meaningless NFL drivel.
Boom!

Nukem2

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #110 on: August 18, 2019, 08:56:03 AM »
Excluding the Hail Mary pass that ended the game with 1 second left, Davidson scored 1.200 ppp in their final four possessions. This includes 75% from the line and 100 eFG% with just one turnover. That's not choking. Marquette scored an insane 2.750 ppp in the same period with a 175 eFG%.

The bolded is correct. The rest is not. Including all the meaningless NFL drivel.
Yes, it was a good comeback.  Though, Davidson did give Jamil and Vander some very good open shots (which, to their credit, they made) that were not there earlier.  Takes a bit of everything.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #111 on: August 18, 2019, 09:03:19 AM »
Yes, it was a good comeback.  Though, Davidson did give Jamil and Vander some very good open shots (which, to their credit, they made) that were not there earlier.  Takes a bit of everything.


I don't know if I would call those shots "open."  I would say they weren't rigorously contested, but the defenders had their hands up and stayed on the ground.  Which is likely what they were coached to do as to not foul.

https://deadspin.com/heres-how-marquette-erased-a-six-point-davidson-lead-i-458283539

GooooMarquette

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #112 on: August 18, 2019, 09:22:30 AM »
So a thread announcing Jae and Lazar being inducted into the MU HOF leads to a multi-page debate about MU's comeback in a game in which neither played?

Classic Scoop.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #113 on: August 18, 2019, 09:28:03 AM »
So a thread announcing Jae and Lazar being inducted into the MU HOF leads to a multi-page debate about MU's comeback in a game in which neither played?

Classic Scoop.

Kelly and Koberstein were still students, though.

MomofMUltiples

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #114 on: August 18, 2019, 10:19:57 AM »
This thread is worse than reading Buckyville ::)

Congrats to Jae and Lazar, and all those who seize opportunities and make the most of them!!
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 05:37:39 PM by MomofMUltiples »
I mean, OK, maybe he's secretly a serial killer who's pulled the wool over our eyes with his good deeds and smooth jumper - Pakuni (on Markus Howard)

We R Final Four

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #115 on: August 18, 2019, 10:50:49 AM »

I don't know if I would call those shots "open."  I would say they weren't rigorously contested, but the defenders had their hands up and stayed on the ground.  Which is likely what they were coached to do as to not foul.

https://deadspin.com/heres-how-marquette-erased-a-six-point-davidson-lead-i-458283539
Classic Sultan.

Jay Bee

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #116 on: August 18, 2019, 11:26:57 AM »
Notice that they're vastly superior to Crean's and better than Wojo's....


BTW, here are Buzz's scores at VPI:

2014-15    952
2015-16    963
2016-17    970
2017-18    970


avg 963.8

So, also higher than Crean's or Wojo's at MU

Eh... this analysis doesn't really make sense. The issue is that you're quoting multi-year scores. So, for example, you're giving Buzz a 952 in 2014-15... when only approximately 25% of the score relates to players he coached.

The APR is stupid imo... and can be gamed. To look at multi-year APR scores and conclude re: academics isn't reasonable. Gotta look at the specifics.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #117 on: August 18, 2019, 12:04:21 PM »
I don’t particularly care what VPI does with their student athletes or sluff courses to make it easier for their kids to graduate.  I’m talking apples to apples at the same school, not different schools, different courses, different standards.

Whatever. Apples to apples, Buzz's numbers are better than Crean's or Wojo's. Apples to oranges (VPI is ranked 13 spot above MU by US News), his numbers are better too. Those are facts. You making stuff up about "sluff courses" without any evidence is what's meaningless.

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #118 on: August 18, 2019, 12:13:52 PM »
This is not true. Davidson played well down the stretch of that game. They didn't throw it away, Marquette seized it aggressively.

They literally thew it away with that pass....literally.  You're not being truthful if MU was up like Davidson was up and we lost, everyone and I mean EVERYONE here would have said we choked.  As I have said before, great comeback by us, we made shots, but none of it matters if Davidson doesn't massively help and piss themselves.

Nickeldimer, I'm just calling it like it is and absolutely being truthful in how everyone here would have reacted if the shoe on the other foot. Great comeback, and thankfully Davidson choked.  Both can happen, and they did.  Ask Patriots / Falcons.  Ask Patriots / Seahawks.  Countless other examples. Sorry that some of you don't want to except the truth on this.
"It's a crapshoot.  You have to be lucky."
Head Coach Roy Williams

Lennys Tap

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #119 on: August 18, 2019, 12:31:08 PM »
And there is no way people are telling the truth if the script was flipped and we lost, our fans would absolutely say it was a choke.  They are lying if they say otherwise, especially true depending on who the coach is.  We made a great comeback and Davidson pissed their pants to make it happen.  What that has to do with an APR score is beyond me.
[/quote

What does what some "people" would say or what some of our own "fans" would say have to do with facts? The facts say Davidson did not "piss their pants". Thank you Brew (and others) for pointing out those clear, stubborn and immutable facts. You're correct that it depends who the coach is. You were a hater, and you would do everything in your power  to minimize the greatest NCAA tournament comeback in Marquette history. So you ignored the facts and stuck with a lie.

Of course it has nothing to do with an APR score (or Jae or Lazar) but why is the fact that we're discussing it "beyond" you? You're the one who brought it up. Fact.








 


Lennys Tap

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #120 on: August 18, 2019, 12:39:42 PM »
They literally thew it away with that pass....literally.  You're not being truthful if MU was up like Davidson was up and we lost, everyone and I mean EVERYONE here would have said we choked.  As I have said before, great comeback by us, we made shots, but none of it matters if Davidson doesn't massively help and piss themselves.

Nickeldimer, I'm just calling it like it is and absolutely being truthful in how everyone here would have reacted if the shoe on the other foot. Great comeback, and thankfully Davidson choked.  Both can happen, and they did.  Ask Patriots / Falcons.  Ask Patriots / Seahawks.  Countless other examples. Sorry that some of you don't want to except the truth on this.

Keep digging, keep lying. Davidson played well during our comeback. One (1) turnover or one (1) missed free throw doesn't change that - and coupled with all their good plays/made shots down the stretch any assertion that they choked or massively pissed themselves is simply not borne out by the facts. The numbers don't lie. You do. Constantly.

Herman Cain

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #121 on: August 18, 2019, 12:48:11 PM »
Eh... this analysis doesn't really make sense. The issue is that you're quoting multi-year scores. So, for example, you're giving Buzz a 952 in 2014-15... when only approximately 25% of the score relates to players he coached.

The APR is stupid imo... and can be gamed. To look at multi-year APR scores and conclude re: academics isn't reasonable. Gotta look at the specifics.
A couple of questions:
1.Does anyone know if Henry Ellenson left in Good Standing as defined by APR? As I remember he stopped going to classes after the season was to focus on workouts for the NBA.
2. How do Graduate Transfers calculate into the APR if at all ? They don't mention the topic in the NCAA FAQ. 

Nukem2

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #122 on: August 18, 2019, 01:12:03 PM »
A couple of questions:
1.Does anyone know if Henry Ellenson left in Good Standing as defined by APR? As I remember he stopped going to classes after the season was to focus on workouts for the NBA.
2. How do Graduate Transfers calculate into the APR if at all ? They don't mention the topic in the NCAA FAQ.
1.  I doubt it.
2.  They’ve already graduated.

brewcity77

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #123 on: August 18, 2019, 01:22:56 PM »
They literally thew it away with that pass....literally.

You're full of it. One turnover in a 60 possession game is not throwing the game away. You're full of crap. This is just more proof that even SIX YEARS LATER you can't let it go when you're wrong. Especially when everyone who's been around long enough knows this is still a weak mea culpa attempt for your "Choking Dogs" headline on Cracked Sidewalks. Give it a rest.

Jay Bee

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #124 on: August 18, 2019, 01:35:20 PM »
A couple of questions:
1.Does anyone know if Henry Ellenson left in Good Standing as defined by APR? As I remember he stopped going to classes after the season was to focus on workouts for the NBA.
2. How do Graduate Transfers calculate into the APR if at all ? They don't mention the topic in the NCAA FAQ.

1) I believe we got dinged for Henry
2) They are included. If they finish in good standing in the spring semester (don’t need to get grad degree), they’d be all good for that semester