Crowder & Hayward to HOF

[Lennys Tap]

Did you have these same discussions under Crean? Maybe it should be called the Wade Rule?  The Lazar Rule?  Or the Trend Rule? I seem to remember MUAD being taken out of the SA acceptance decision process somewhere under the Crean Era. Crean created a lot of animosity by going around academics to Wild on Wade.

Stop glossing it over as a Buzz issue.  It is inherent in the history of MUBB history started by Al. Pat Smith, Bob Lackey, Walton, Whitehead, Johnson, Worthen, Green, etc.  We'll see how these new absolute elite rules play out.

As I have said numerous times, I don't agree with it and I strongly believe it goes against the historical mission of the university. When you are dealing first generation college kids, there are always cracks that need judgment. It's called the Cracked Sidewalks Rule.

This says it much better than I did/could. Thanks, Doc.

[MUfan12]

Stop glossing it over as a Buzz issue.  It is inherent in the history of MUBB started by Al. Pat Smith, Bob Lackey, Walton, Whitehead, Johnson, Worthen, Green, etc.  We'll see how these new absolute elite rules play out.

As I have said numerous times, I don't agree with it and I strongly believe it goes against the historical mission of the university. When you are dealing with first generation college kids, there are always cracks that need judgment. It's called the Cracked Sidewalks Rule.

[Galway Eagle]

It would seem MU believes that if they are using a player for basketball then that player should be using MU for a degree and if a player cannot graduate during their eligibility they don't feel comfortable with that admittance. If said player red shirted, maybe it'd be otherwise? I don't think it's wrong for MU to say they don't want to use people who they don't feel they can give a degree to at the end of their scholarship.

[Dr. Blackheart]

It would seem MU believes that if they are using a player for basketball then that player should be using MU for a degree and if a player cannot graduate during their eligibility they don't feel comfortable with that admittance. If said player red shirted, maybe it'd be otherwise? I don't think it's wrong for MU to say they don't want to use people who they don't feel they can give a degree to at the end of their scholarship.

Yet Henry Ellenson was admitted.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Yet Henry Ellenson was admitted.

Why wouldn't they have admitted Henry?

[Galway Eagle]

Yet Henry Ellenson was admitted.

False equivalency

If Henry wanted to play four years, heck if he wanted to have 5 years he would've been more than able to graduate. There was no way Jae could have graduated.

You need to see the difference between "cannot graduate" vs "chose not to graduate"

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

False equivalency

If Henry wanted to play four years, heck if he wanted to have 5 years he would've been more than able to graduate. There was no way Jae could have graduated.

You need to see the difference between "cannot graduate" vs "chose not to graduate"

Jae could have redshirted and played 2 years.  Three academic years plus one JUCO year= graduation.

Jae also could have redshirted, played one year and turned pro.

[Lennys Tap]

False equivalency

If Henry wanted to play four years, heck if he wanted to have 5 years he would've been more than able to graduate. There was no way Jae could have graduated.

You need to see the difference between "cannot graduate" vs "chose not to graduate"

Hair splitting. Everyone knew (Wojo and the MU administration included) that Henry was just passing through. And everyone also knew that Jae Crowder would be a hell of a lot closer to an MU degree when he left than Henry would be when he took a powder. Would = reality, could (in this case) = a phony rationalization.

[Galway Eagle]

Jae could have redshirted and played 2 years.  Three academic years plus one JUCO year= graduation.

Jae also could have redshirted, played one year and turned pro.

Do we know this for sure? Because his first school wasn't accredited which put him at one year of school as a PE major, not sure how many of those credits would've transferred to an MU major. I'd be a skeptic that he could've done it in 3 even.

[Galway Eagle]

Hair splitting. Everyone knew (Wojo and the MU administration included) that Henry was just passing through. And everyone also knew that Jae Crowder would be a hell of a lot closer to an MU degree when he left than Henry would be when he took a powder. Would = reality, could (in this case) = a phony rationalization.

Apparently enough people thought he'd play two so that Kyle Washington wouldn't come to MU and Gabe Levin left.

I just view it as a policy MU is enforcing as all or nothing. You can either get admitted with potential to graduate or not at all.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Hair splitting. Everyone knew (Wojo and the MU administration included) that Henry was just passing through. And everyone also knew that Jae Crowder would be a hell of a lot closer to an MU degree when he left than Henry would be when he took a powder. Would = reality, could (in this case) = a phony rationalization.

It's a policy that was applied consistently.  Henry could have sucked...or got injured.  Look at Alex Poythress at Kentucky.  He went there to be one-and-done but due to not living up to his billing and injuries, ended up a four year player, graduating and getting a start on his graduate degree.

To my understanding the policy is simple - can the player graduate by the time his eligibility is completed. 

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Do we know this for sure? Because his first school wasn't accredited which put him at one year of school as a PE major, not sure how many of those credits would've transferred to an MU major. I'd be a skeptic that he could've done it in 3 even.

Well, Jae was admitted and eligible to play.  I assumed there was something of merit on his academic transcript.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Hair splitting. Everyone knew (Wojo and the MU administration included) that Henry was just passing through. And everyone also knew that Jae Crowder would be a hell of a lot closer to an MU degree when he left than Henry would be when he took a powder. Would = reality, could (in this case) = a phony rationalization.

Well said Lenny.

[WarriorDad]

I am sure there are schools on either side of the issue Billy as Gooo pointed out. But MU hasn't really changed much in 50 years other than the notoriety basketball has brought (a swoon for student recruitment). However, over the next ten years when today's minorities become tomorrow's majorities, MU needs to adapt today for the future.  Elitism isn't the answer.

MU, in my view, has changed in the 40 plus years since attending.  Some of the programs are mainstays, but others have been added or improved with the technological demands of the world. 

The quality of student appears better today and the programs reflect that. In the 1970’s it felt as though the entire school was from maybe 6 or 7 states.  My daughter has roommates from New Jersey, California, Texas and Colorado. We are a national brand now.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Jae could have redshirted and played 2 years.  Three academic years plus one JUCO year= graduation.

Jae also could have redshirted, played one year and turned pro.

My understanding is that even if Jae did redshirt, and took max classes every semester it was still mathematically impossible for him to graduate. He basically came in as an academic freshman with only 2 years to complete 4 years of work.

[Galway Eagle]

Well, Jae was admitted and eligible to play.  I assumed there was something of merit on his academic transcript.

I mean he was admitted at a era of time we also admitted Todd Mayo...

What TAMU said was the last thing I really heard. And I tried to break it down as to why he basically had no credits.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

So when Rowsey graduated this spring, what year APR does that go into?

Where were the 'Crowder rule' mathematicians in Jan-18? The shame this brought to our university is unending.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Where were the 'Crowder rule' mathematicians in Jan-18? The shame this brought to our university is unending.

I think the policy made some sense at the time.  With "lifetime scholarships" now being a thing, I think the policy can be adjusted - or eliminated.  Or maybe it already has but Wojo just isn't into Jucos. 

[WarriorDad]

Hair splitting. Everyone knew (Wojo and the MU administration included) that Henry was just passing through. And everyone also knew that Jae Crowder would be a hell of a lot closer to an MU degree when he left than Henry would be when he took a powder. Would = reality, could (in this case) = a phony rationalization.

If Henry tore his ACL and came back to play multiple years, does that change your perception?  Our guys should be tracking on a yearly basis to graduate within the required time. 

[Galway Eagle]

I think the policy made some sense at the time.  With "lifetime scholarships" now being a thing, I think the policy can be adjusted - or eliminated.  Or maybe it already has but Wojo just isn't into Jucos.

This.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I think the policy made some sense at the time.  With "lifetime scholarships" now being a thing, I think the policy can be adjusted - or eliminated.  Or maybe it already has but Wojo just isn't into Jucos.

Applying a linear rules based system to address an organization problem only makes sense to bureaucrats and the passive aggressive. 

Judgement, thought, dialog and educated risk taking make sense...thats what people in power get paid for. 

As an aside, I am pretty sure MU isn't new to the lifetime scholarship business...but i am sure someone more in the know can vouch for older players, trend and others.

[Lennys Tap]

MU, in my view, has changed in the 40 plus years since attending.  Some of the programs are mainstays, but others have been added or improved with the technological demands of the world. 

The quality of student appears better today and the programs reflect that. In the 1970’s it felt as though the entire school was from maybe 6 or 7 states.  My daughter has roommates from New Jersey, California, Texas and Colorado. We are a national brand now.

First, you didn't go to MU in the 70s.

Second, I was there from 1966-70. Only anecdotal, (as is your daughter's experience) but on my wing of my dorm (40 guys) we had folks from New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Oklahoma, Michigan, Indiana and Ohio in addition to the kids from Illinois and Wisconsin.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Thanks for the info TAMU.  Guess we'll never see another Jae Crowder situation.   Too bad we'll be vacating all those wins.

[Billy Hoyle]

there are people from all over the country but more now than there used to be.

Most my wing floor in the mid 90's in McCormick was from WI.  I remember some Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota, Kansas and one from Colorado and one from Georgia (eventually roommate). Had two from California, one from Washington State, one from Louisiana and one from New Mexico as a sophomore but again, WI and IL dominated. My roommate junior year from Arizona was there because his dad was a big donor and he transferred in from ASU. It was rare to find anyone not from WI, IL, MN or another midwestern state. That is something MU is doing better with now.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Applying a linear rules based system to address an organization problem only makes sense to bureaucrats and the passive aggressive. 

Judgement, thought, dialog and educated risk taking make sense...thats what people in power get paid for. 

As an aside, I am pretty sure MU isn't new to the lifetime scholarship business...but i am sure someone more in the know can vouch for older players, trend and others.

I think we can just ask Wally. He was cut but was allowed to graduate.